[sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting notes + abt some lightweight distros

Tue May 8 09:45:22 PDT 2018

On the systems which have not chosen systemd.

Well Aaron there are full featured distributions like
PCLinuxOS64 with either Mate or KDE Plasma 5.12.5
which resisted the move to systemd.

There is also a smaller release called Porteus which
as far as I know has resisted systemd.  Remember
the compact distribution called Slax which started out
using Slackware repositories but then in later releases
switched to Debian.  I thought they should change
the name to "Little Debbie" but Porteus went to
the Slackware repositories.   It is available with a
variety of Desktop Management in the initial
download.  Porteus stands for Portable Linux.

<http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/porteus/x86_64/Porteus-v4.0>

Porteus-CINNAMON-v4.0-x86_64.iso    306M    29-Apr-2018 12:14
Porteus-KDE-v4.0-x86_64.iso    354M    29-Apr-2018 12:14
Porteus-LXDE-v4.0-x86_64.iso    274M    29-Apr-2018 12:10
Porteus-LXQT-v4.0-x86_64.iso    285M    29-Apr-2018 12:11
Porteus-MATE-v4.0-x86_64.iso    298M    29-Apr-2018 12:12
Porteus-OPENBOX-v4.0-x86_64.iso    269M    29-Apr-2018 12:12
Porteus-XFCE-v4.0-x86_64.iso

<http://mirrors.dotsrc.org/porteus/i586/Porteus-v4.0/>

Porteus-CINNAMON-v4.0-i586.iso    305M    29-Apr-2018 12:25
Porteus-KDE-v4.0-i586.iso    356M    29-Apr-2018 12:26
Porteus-LXDE-v4.0-i586.iso    270M    29-Apr-2018 12:22
Porteus-LXQT-v4.0-i586.iso    284M    29-Apr-2018 12:23
Porteus-MATE-v4.0-i586.iso    296M    29-Apr-2018 12:24
Porteus-OPENBOX-v4.0-i586.iso    267M    29-Apr-2018 12:21
Porteus-XFCE-v4.0-i586.iso

     And if you go to the top of this tree you will even find obsolete 
versions
of Porteus for the i486.

     So I am going to get the KDE version of this release to try out
and will be happy to hear from anyone who tries out the other
versions

     Bobbie Sellers

On 05/07/2018 09:56 PM, aaronco36 wrote:
>
> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote at [01]:
>
>> Ken was working on a member's laptop but was unable to get
>> results and it was passed on to Aaron. Then after that he
>> sat down next to Jackie B. and attempted to help her with
>> the Ubuntu on her Toshiba.
>
> Thanks, maestro, for the ThinkPad T61  :-) -- see [02].
> Gives me a chance to see if I could revive this laptop or else salvage 
> it for needed parts.
>
> That "he" who "sat at down next to Jackie B. and attempted to help her 
> with the Ubuntu on her Toshiba" was Ken, not me. As per the below, I 
> did arrive very late.
>
>
> Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote at [01]:
>
>> Aaron came in very late but was there to get back the modem
>> he had loaned me and to pick up the Bunsen Labs 32 bit
>> version of their late release of Helium based in Debian.
>
> Arrived at Cafe Enchante around 12:15.
> Thanks Bobbie, for that DVD copy of i386 BunsenLabs Helium[03], which 
> is based on Debian Stable/"stretch" :-)
>
>
> There was a bit of discussion at the tail end of the meeting about 
> various lightweight distros and their Desktop Environments (DEs) 
> and/or their Windows Managers (WMs). Don't wish to get in too 
> elongated a discussion of differences between DEs and WMs (because 
> that's been done already over the last several years ;-) ).
>
> I *will* mention, though, that I've artificially grouped some of the 
> discussed distros into the two init classes of
> A. With systemd
> B. Without systemd or systemd-disabled
>
> DistroWatch writeups referenced next to each distro below.
>
> A. systemd-containing distros mentioned were
> - BL Helium [03] (just as above)
> - Lubuntu [04]
> - Bodhi Linux [05]
>
> B. systemd-free or systemd-disabled distros mentioned were
> - antiX [06]
> - Void Linux [07]
> - MX Linux [08]
>
> What was *not* mentioned during Sunday's SF-LUG mtg while I was there 
> was the systemd-free Devuan; the official release of Devuan "asci" 
> testing came out this past Sunday -- see [09]
>
>
> BunsenLabs Helium [03].
> BL Helium is lightweight with its Openbox WM, and it follows the 
> tradition of being super lightweight started by its predecessor 
> CrunchBang Linux.
>
> Lubuntu [04].
>
> Lubuntu is essentially Ubuntu with the LightweightX DE. Ubuntu/Lubuntu 
> came out with version 18.04 "Bionic Beaver" within the last two weeks 
> as Bobbie S specifically mentioned a week ago last Monday [10].
> The Lubuntu 18.04 System Requirements were bumped up a bit compared to 
> previous versions of Lubuntu, as noted within Simon Quigley's Release 
> Announcement [11]:
> ~~~~ quoting ~~~~~
> Lubuntu is a good operating system for many old computers, but not for 
> all of them. Some computers have too little horsepower or memory. A 
> rule of thumb is that the computer should not be more than 10 years 
> old (although some older computers are known to work as well).
>
> Memory (RAM): Your computer needs at minimum 1 GB of RAM to use 
> Lubuntu, but we recommend 2 GB or more for better performance (with 
> web-based applications).
> ...
> ------------------------------
>
> That release announcement soon resulted in this revealing exchange of 
> comments at [12] :
> ~~~~~~ quoting ~~~~~~~
> ~
> Simon Quigley    - April 28, 2018 at 1:48 am
>> Minimum memory requirements jumped up twice in compare of 16.04. Why?
>
> Computers have evolved.
>
>> Can we install snaps in Lubuntu via GUI now?
>
> Probably using the Ubuntu Software Center.
> ~
> ~
> BornRetarded    - April 29, 2018 at 2:33 pm
>>> Imagine if your car used twice the gasoline because cars have evolved.
> ~
> ~
> Simon Quigley    - April 29, 2018 at 6:05 pm
>>>> It's not the same thing.
>>>> Please stop complaining about a number that we just bumped in the 
> release announcement.
>>>> The goal is to make sure people know that things like Firefox will 
>>>> need 
> a couple of GB of RAM.
> ~
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> I sense that Simon is/was a might snippy now that Lubuntu might not be 
> the lightest mainstream version of Ubuntu on the block. Note that I 
> previously made an inquiry about the slightly lighterweight LXLE Linux 
> [13] about three months ago here [14].
>
> Bodhi Linux [05].
>
> That's the lightweight Ubuntu/Debian-based distribution featuring 
> Moksha, an Enlightenment-17-based DE, which Rick M has advocated in 
> the past in at least the bottom of [15]. While I still don't like 
> Bodhi and its Moksha DE -- having actually tried it out -- maestro was 
> praising Bodhi Linux at the end of Sunday's meeting for its 
> lighweightedness. Certainly lightweight compared to Lubuntu 18.04 
> "Bionic Beaver", I think.
>
>
> While the above three Debian/Ubuntu-based systemd distros *can* have 
> their init's and other integrated components teased out as per Rick 
> M's and maestro's postings from the past on such -- see refs [16] 
> through [19] -- at the same time I found it much easier not having to 
> take the more extensive after-the-fact steps to purge systems from 
> systemd as described at ref [20]. Instead, it's much easier to 
> start-off with one or more of the systemd-free distros listed in ref 
> [21] from the get-go.
>
> antiX [06].
> That super lightweight systemd-free distro with all those WMs which I 
> *very specifically*mentioned 1 2/3 years ago within ref [22].
>
> Void Linux [07].
> First mentioned in Bobbie S's Meeting notes from Monday December 19, 
> 2016 in ref [23], and more recently mentioned in my posting of last 
> November 'Installing Void, C.E. Sign-in at SF-LUG mtg of 2017-11-05' 
> in ref [24].
>
> Some recent intriguing news about Void Linux is from one of its most 
> recent 'Serious News' news story as quoted in ref [25]:
> ~~~~~~~ Quoting ~~~~~~~~
> The current project leader has disappeared. We have had no contact 
> with him since the end of January, and no meaningful contact for well 
> over a year.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> MX Linux [08].
> It's integrally related to antiX as previously mentioned above, it 
> uses the XFCE DE, it's intended as a "mid-weight operating system", 
> and it seems to currently be very popular at number 7th in 
> DistroWatch's Hits Per Day ranking. What might be unique about MX 
> Linux, as quoted in its 'Systemd' wikipage of ref [26], is that "MX 
> Linux ships with systemd present but disabled by default. The MX Linux 
> team strongly urges users to remain with this configuration which uses 
> sysvinit instead." This 'Systemd' wikipage makes a good read for 
> understanding what the MX Linux developers face and what choices they 
> ended up making with the distro.
>
> If I gather this correctly, the MX Linux developers still left-in the 
> "hooks" for systemd, but these "hooks" are disabled by default.  The 
> 'Systemd' wikipage (ref [26] again) shows that taking steps seemingly 
> similar to those in ref [17] for Debian 8 "Jessie" OpenRC Conversion 
> can remove MX Linux's reliance on systemd and some of (all of?) 
> systemd's various "hooks".
>
>
> As before, Rick M, maestro, Michael P, Bobbie S, Akkana P, Daniel G, 
> Jim, and really anyone else reading this are definitely invited and 
> completely welcome to provide more complete information and advice on 
> what I've written above :-)
>
> -Aaron
>
>
> ========================
> References
> ========================
>
> [01]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q2/013227.html
> [02]http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T61
> [03]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=bunsenlabs
> [04]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=lubuntu
> [05]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=bodhi
> [06]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=antix
> [07]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=void
> [08]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mx
> [09]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=devuan
> [10]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q2/013216.html
> [11]https://lubuntu.me/bionic-released/
> [12]https://lubuntu.me/bionic-released/#more-3008
> [13]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=lxle
> [14]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q1/013079.html
> [15]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2016q4/012326.html
> [16]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2016q4/012277.html
> [17]http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/openrc-conversion.html
> [18]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2017q4/012899.html
> [19]http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
> [20]http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Alternatives_to_systemd
> [21]http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd 
>
> [22]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2016q3/012256.html
> [23]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2016q4/012373.html
> [24]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2017q4/012941.html
> [25]https://www.voidlinux.eu/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html
> [26]https://mxlinux.org/wiki/system/systemd
>
> ========================
>
>
> aaronco36 at sdf.org
> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.org
>
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