[sf-lug] LUG meeting of September 5, 2021

Fri Sep 10 10:45:02 PDT 2021

Quoting Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> from [01]:
> I forgot to make notes but in attendance were myself,
> Bobbie S., Tom, Aaron C. by phone, Wayne from the Santa Cruz
> area club, Ken S and Michael P. working on updating the
> sites it seems.

Not exactly in attendance "by phone" myself; actually able to share 
various screenshots with other attendees using web-browser.

At one point during the meeting, was perusing DistroWatch's Distribution 
Release announcement for Linux From Scratch[02] and the recent LFS News 
page[03].  It seems from [03] that as with previous LFS releases, there 
are both 11.0-systemd and 11.0 non-systemd versions (haven't yet looked at 
the different elements of the 11.0-systemd version versus the non-systemd 
11.0 one, e.g., the contents of the latter's tarball file 
lfs-bootscripts-20210608.tar.xz :-| )

On the subject(s) of distros with systemd init vs. non-systemd init, was 
also perusing Alpine Linux [04][05] and Void Linux [06][07].
Alpine Linux's main site [05] states that their distro "is a 
security-oriented, lightweight Linux distribution based on musl libc and 
busybox."  Void Linux offers separate live+installation ISO images of both 
glibc and musl libc implementations for x86_64 platforms (see reference 
[08]) and there is a 2018 comparison of both Void Linux implementations at 
reference [09].  The Void Linux Handbook's current 'musl' webpage[10] 
states "musl is a libc implementation which strives to be lightweight, 
fast, simple, and correct."

Quoting a pair of comments also from 2018 on the Reddit topic 'glibc vs 
musl the stronger candidates, whichever is the other?'[11]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
emacsomancer  3y
when you say glibc is ancient, that's sort of misleading. it's undergone 
continual development, just like emacs. it's not like you're using 
something that was made in 1985 and never updated.

I use musl on one of my machines, mostly out of interest. I'm not 
convinced that it seems noticeably faster. there are things that will work 
with glibc and won't work with musl - lots of proprietary software 
(including nvidia drivers) and systemd, for instance.

--

[deleted]  3y
musl is more lightweight,neat and well-thoughy with considerably less code 
comes also much more security, which is the main and probably the only 
(still surely relevant) musl pro;

musl vs glibc performance benchs are often contradictory. musl would 
perform better only on limited specs/embedded.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Can partially understand that the musl libc implementation could be more 
"secure" than glibc, as the former's reduced code volume would presumably 
make it 1) easier to spot and fix bugs and 2) present less of a code 
attack surface for hackers to introduce vulnerabilities. After all, even 
the new LFS v11.0 does mention fixing a "security problem identified 
upstream" with its Glibc-2.34 (see reference [12]).

OTOH, don't myself particularly see how systemd "won't work with musl" as 
the second Reddit thread commentator asserts above in [11]. Couldn't find 
anything directly systemd-related for musl vs glibc either at the 
musl.libc.org reference webpages [13],[14],[15],[16],[17] or at Eta Labs 
'Comparison of C/POSIX standard library implementations for Linux'[18].

Am definitely open to others offering much clearer insight(s) on this 
subject.

Quoting Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> from [01]:
> John S. showed up late by phone as well I believe.

Heard John's voice, but IIRC, it was a John (person's 1st name) other than 
the "regular" John S.

Quoting Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> from [01]:
> Finnix 123 server release out. Smaller than a CD but
> that is for server administrators.  You can get release
> notes from here or Distowatch.com if you have any interest
> https://www.finnix.org/Finnix_123_release_notes

Am nitpicky about this for certain, but the Finnix 123 release is rather 
for _system_ administrators and not necessarily "server" administrators.

Directly quoting the 'Finnix 123 released' webpage at [19]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today marks the release of Finnix 123, the LiveCD for system 
administrators. Expanding on Finnix 122 from six months ago, this release 
includes a number of fixes, new packages and new features.
>From the Finnix 123 release notes:

* Added kernel command line sshd and passwd options, example:
sshd passwd=foo, sshd passwd=root:foo passwd=finnix:bar
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>From the 'Finnix 123 packages' webpage at [20], did admittedly manage to 
find gpg-wks-server 2.2.27-2, openssh-server 1:8.4p1-5 and 
openssh-sftp-server 1:8.4p1-5 listed, but AFAICT, these three seem to be 
the only listed packages that directly provide any "server-type" services 
as part of their very names.

-A

=================================================================
REFERENCES
=================================================================
[01]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2021q3/015377.html
[02]https://distrowatch.com/?newsid=11337
[03]https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/news.html
[04]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=alpine
[05]https://www.alpinelinux.org/
[06]https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=void
[07]https://voidlinux.org/
[08]https://alpha.de.repo.voidlinux.org/live/current/
[09]https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/2018/07/01/228/
[10]https://docs.voidlinux.org/installation/musl.html
[11]https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/8jnjdx/glibc_vs_musl_the_stronger_candidates_whichever/
[12]https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/downloads/11.0/LFS-BOOK-11.0-NOCHUNKS.html#ch-system-glibc
[13]https://musl.libc.org/
[14]https://www.musl-libc.org/faq.html
[15]https://musl.libc.org/about.html
[16]https://wiki.musl-libc.org/functional-differences-from-glibc.html
[17]https://wiki.musl-libc.org/compatibility.html
[18]https://www.etalabs.net/compare_libcs.html
[19]https://blog.finnix.org/2021/09/06/finnix-123-released/
[20]https://www.finnix.org/Finnix_123_packages
=================================================================

aaronco36 at sdf.org