[sf-lug] Considering purchasing a lightweight laptop: thoughts Thinkpad X1 carbon vs. Thinkpad T460S

Tue Dec 27 02:05:01 PST 2016

The point of modprobing bbswitch before X was running was to power off
the discrete GPU. I was assuming your machine is not Skylake, but
maybe I was wrong?

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:55 AM, Antonio Malcolm
<antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, what was the point of switching without X?
> No wonder it didn't work. Was there even a point, other than challenging a
> guy trying to share something potentially useful, and for free?
>
>
> ~Antonio
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 1:48 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>> This was without having started X in the first place. Whatever.
>> Skylake won't be production-ready on laptops for years to come.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:09 AM, Antonio Malcolm
>> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > AH, and the first thing that comes to my mind, based on your
>> > description, is
>> > that you're not employing a callback, to kill and restart X (this is
>> > required, because X can't reload drivers on-the-fly, and must be
>> > restarted,
>> > to load the replacement drivers).
>> >
>> > Perhaps, when you think your machine has locked, you should try
>> > CTRL+ALT+F1,
>> > to drop into a shell. If you can drop into a shell, you know X crapped
>> > out
>> > on you, and you need to provide the callback.
>> >
>> > In my case, I use lightdm, so my callback consists of:
>> >
>> > sv restart lightdm
>> >
>> > Which restarts the X session.
>> > Next part of my work will be sorting out if we can/how to preserve
>> > application state, and reload the apps after restarting X.
>> >
>> >
>> > ~Antonio
>> >
>> > On Dec 27, 2016 12:58 AM, "Antonio Malcolm" <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> You've obviously read the code wrong, or didn't read it, or didn't read
>> >> the preceding documentaion. Most of all, you've obviously not run it
>> >> (or
>> >> something is very wrong with your configs).
>> >>
>> >> Like I said, I have it running, successfully, on three different rigs.
>> >> I
>> >> can swap between Nvidia, Intel, and Optimus whenever, on any of the
>> >> three,
>> >> and I do.
>> >>
>> >> If you have any error output, or questions about use, feel free to let
>> >> me
>> >> know. I have no problem with helping anyone use it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~Antonio
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 27, 2016 12:46 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> >> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> One of the first things your code does is to modprobe bbswitch, which
>> >> immediately locked up the whole machine just by itself without even a
>> >> kernel panic.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>> >> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Oops! Forgot to add sflug-
>> >> >
>> >> > The question he's answering is:
>> >> >
>> >> > "Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which
>> >> > precludes
>> >> > the
>> >> > reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?"
>> >> >
>> >> > If he plans on using the Nvidia GPU, proprietary is going to be his
>> >> > best
>> >> > route. Nouveau drivers won't cut the mustard, for either performance
>> >> > or
>> >> > power-efficiency.
>> >> >
>> >> > OTOH, they replace the open source GL drivers...
>> >> > Though there are ways of having both.
>> >> >
>> >> > -At the risk of tooting my own horn (mea culpa), I have one such
>> >> > solution,
>> >> > which works, for me, across three different machines, with three
>> >> > different
>> >> > architectures and three different Nvidia GPUs:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > https://forum.voidlinux.eu/t/optimus-opengl-on-both-nvidia-and-intel-have-your-cake-eat-it-too/181
>> >> >
>> >> > In any case, he will hopefully share his use-case.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mayhaps his need for dual-booting involves some gaming? In that case,
>> >> > dual-booting is his best option, and he should stick with the Intel
>> >> > GPU,
>> >> > for
>> >> > the Linux install, as he'll get the best power efficiency.
>> >> >
>> >> > Also worth considering, are the external-facing video ports on this
>> >> > line
>> >> > of
>> >> > machines connected to the Intel GPU, or the Nvidia (it may very well
>> >> > vary,
>> >> > by model)?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ~Antonio
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Dec 26, 2016 23:16, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> >> > <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Unknown. All I can say is that I spent many hours down at CABAL
>> >> > trying
>> >> > to get such a laptop to work without blacklisting all modules which
>> >> > could possibly touch the chip, and I never succeeded. I do not
>> >> > remember whether I attempted to install the proprietary nVidia
>> >> > drivers
>> >> > as well, and I likely didn't, because the use case left no room for
>> >> > them, and I did not trust RPM to clean up after them.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>> >> > <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which
>> >> >> precludes
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ~Antonio
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Dec 26, 2016 22:12, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> >> >> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> And if you do get a Skylake laptop for GNU/Linux, avoid discrete
>> >> >>> graphics like the plague.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> > Quoting Jon Lam (jonplam at gmail.com):
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >> I do not mean to hijack this discussion. Does anyone have any
>> >> >>> >> experience
>> >> >>> >> running dual boot Windows and Linux on the Acer V Nitro?  I have
>> >> >>> >> a
>> >> >>> >> older
>> >> >>> >> mid 2010 Mac Book Pro and am looking at a different
>> >> >>> >> configuration.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > I'll be very surprised if anyone on this mailing list satisfies
>> >> >>> > that
>> >> >>> > extremely specific request.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > If as I suspect nobody says "By a freakish coincidence, I happen
>> >> >>> > to
>> >> >>> > dual-boot that exact model.  What do you want to know?", perhaps
>> >> >>> > you
>> >> >>> > can
>> >> >>> > follow up by saying what actual problem you're trying to solve.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > For example, you might be trying to ask "Would I have Linux
>> >> >>> > driver
>> >> >>> > problems on an Acer V Nitro?"  Part of your problem there is that
>> >> >>> > Acer
>> >> >>> > V
>> >> >>> > Nitro isn't a specific model.  It's the marketing name for a
>> >> >>> > series
>> >> >>> > of
>> >> >>> > laptop models, all of them pitched at gamers.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > All of those use Intel Skylake-architecture motherboard chipsets
>> >> >>> > and
>> >> >>> > Nvidia GTX960M graphics chips.  I personally wouldn't touch
>> >> >>> > Skylake
>> >> >>> > at
>> >> >>> > this point.  Linux support requires a fairly cutting-edge kernels
>> >> >>> > as
>> >> >>> > Matthew Garrett described this past April:
>> >> >>> > https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html
>> >> >>> > As far as cutting-edge Nvidia graphics chips aimed at gamers, I'd
>> >> >>> > personally avoid those, too, as they're open source-hostile.
>> >> >>> > (You
>> >> >>> > would
>> >> >>> > end up needing to retrofit Nvidia's  propritary drivers.)
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Why Acer V Nitro?  Gamer usage?
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Also, unless you have something about your use-case that is best
>> >> >>> > addressed with dual boot, consider a VM solution instead, so you
>> >> >>> > can
>> >> >>> > use both OSes concurrently and needn't juggle a complicated
>> >> >>> > bootloader
>> >> >>> > setup.  In my experience, dual-boot is almost always a tactical
>> >> >>> > error,
>> >> >>> > most often chosen mainly because the user didn't consider
>> >> >>> > alternatives.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> > sf-lug mailing list
>> >> >>> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> >> >>> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> >> >>> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>> >> >>> > Related Information <br>
>> >> >>> > http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>> >> >>> > http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> sf-lug mailing list
>> >> >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> >> >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> >> >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>> >> >>> Related Information <br>
>> >> >>> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>> >> >>> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > sf-lug mailing list
>> >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> >> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>> >> > Related Information <br>
>> >> > http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>> >> > http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> sf-lug mailing list
>> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>> >> Related Information <br>
>> >> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>> >> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>> Related Information <br>
>> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>> http://explainshell.com/ <br>