[sf-lug] Considering purchasing a lightweight laptop: thoughts Thinkpad X1 carbon vs. Thinkpad T460S

Tue Dec 27 01:47:20 PST 2016

This was without having started X in the first place. Whatever.
Skylake won't be production-ready on laptops for years to come.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:09 AM, Antonio Malcolm
<antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
> AH, and the first thing that comes to my mind, based on your description, is
> that you're not employing a callback, to kill and restart X (this is
> required, because X can't reload drivers on-the-fly, and must be restarted,
> to load the replacement drivers).
>
> Perhaps, when you think your machine has locked, you should try CTRL+ALT+F1,
> to drop into a shell. If you can drop into a shell, you know X crapped out
> on you, and you need to provide the callback.
>
> In my case, I use lightdm, so my callback consists of:
>
> sv restart lightdm
>
> Which restarts the X session.
> Next part of my work will be sorting out if we can/how to preserve
> application state, and reload the apps after restarting X.
>
>
> ~Antonio
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 12:58 AM, "Antonio Malcolm" <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> You've obviously read the code wrong, or didn't read it, or didn't read
>> the preceding documentaion. Most of all, you've obviously not run it (or
>> something is very wrong with your configs).
>>
>> Like I said, I have it running, successfully, on three different rigs. I
>> can swap between Nvidia, Intel, and Optimus whenever, on any of the three,
>> and I do.
>>
>> If you have any error output, or questions about use, feel free to let me
>> know. I have no problem with helping anyone use it.
>>
>>
>> ~Antonio
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 12:46 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>
>> One of the first things your code does is to modprobe bbswitch, which
>> immediately locked up the whole machine just by itself without even a
>> kernel panic.
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Oops! Forgot to add sflug-
>> >
>> > The question he's answering is:
>> >
>> > "Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which precludes
>> > the
>> > reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?"
>> >
>> > If he plans on using the Nvidia GPU, proprietary is going to be his best
>> > route. Nouveau drivers won't cut the mustard, for either performance or
>> > power-efficiency.
>> >
>> > OTOH, they replace the open source GL drivers...
>> > Though there are ways of having both.
>> >
>> > -At the risk of tooting my own horn (mea culpa), I have one such
>> > solution,
>> > which works, for me, across three different machines, with three
>> > different
>> > architectures and three different Nvidia GPUs:
>> >
>> >
>> > https://forum.voidlinux.eu/t/optimus-opengl-on-both-nvidia-and-intel-have-your-cake-eat-it-too/181
>> >
>> > In any case, he will hopefully share his use-case.
>> >
>> > Mayhaps his need for dual-booting involves some gaming? In that case,
>> > dual-booting is his best option, and he should stick with the Intel GPU,
>> > for
>> > the Linux install, as he'll get the best power efficiency.
>> >
>> > Also worth considering, are the external-facing video ports on this line
>> > of
>> > machines connected to the Intel GPU, or the Nvidia (it may very well
>> > vary,
>> > by model)?
>> >
>> >
>> > ~Antonio
>> >
>> >
>> > On Dec 26, 2016 23:16, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> > <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>> >
>> > Unknown. All I can say is that I spent many hours down at CABAL trying
>> > to get such a laptop to work without blacklisting all modules which
>> > could possibly touch the chip, and I never succeeded. I do not
>> > remember whether I attempted to install the proprietary nVidia drivers
>> > as well, and I likely didn't, because the use case left no room for
>> > them, and I did not trust RPM to clean up after them.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>> > <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which precludes
>> >> the
>> >> reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ~Antonio
>> >>
>> >> On Dec 26, 2016 22:12, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> >> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> And if you do get a Skylake laptop for GNU/Linux, avoid discrete
>> >>> graphics like the plague.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > Quoting Jon Lam (jonplam at gmail.com):
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> I do not mean to hijack this discussion. Does anyone have any
>> >>> >> experience
>> >>> >> running dual boot Windows and Linux on the Acer V Nitro?  I have a
>> >>> >> older
>> >>> >> mid 2010 Mac Book Pro and am looking at a different configuration.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'll be very surprised if anyone on this mailing list satisfies that
>> >>> > extremely specific request.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > If as I suspect nobody says "By a freakish coincidence, I happen to
>> >>> > dual-boot that exact model.  What do you want to know?", perhaps you
>> >>> > can
>> >>> > follow up by saying what actual problem you're trying to solve.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > For example, you might be trying to ask "Would I have Linux driver
>> >>> > problems on an Acer V Nitro?"  Part of your problem there is that
>> >>> > Acer
>> >>> > V
>> >>> > Nitro isn't a specific model.  It's the marketing name for a series
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > laptop models, all of them pitched at gamers.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > All of those use Intel Skylake-architecture motherboard chipsets and
>> >>> > Nvidia GTX960M graphics chips.  I personally wouldn't touch Skylake
>> >>> > at
>> >>> > this point.  Linux support requires a fairly cutting-edge kernels as
>> >>> > Matthew Garrett described this past April:
>> >>> > https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html
>> >>> > As far as cutting-edge Nvidia graphics chips aimed at gamers, I'd
>> >>> > personally avoid those, too, as they're open source-hostile.  (You
>> >>> > would
>> >>> > end up needing to retrofit Nvidia's  propritary drivers.)
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Why Acer V Nitro?  Gamer usage?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Also, unless you have something about your use-case that is best
>> >>> > addressed with dual boot, consider a VM solution instead, so you can
>> >>> > use both OSes concurrently and needn't juggle a complicated
>> >>> > bootloader
>> >>> > setup.  In my experience, dual-boot is almost always a tactical
>> >>> > error,
>> >>> > most often chosen mainly because the user didn't consider
>> >>> > alternatives.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
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>