[sf-lug] systemd criticism

[Jeff Bragg]

Mostly more discussion:

http://lwn.net/Articles/602579/


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of the
> relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second discussion about
> it, as far as I can tell.
>
> http://ewontfix.com/14/
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some
>> warning.
>>
>> Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across
>> discussions with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I
>> sent this.  I'll try to track them back down and add them here.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff Bragg:
>>> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>>>
>>> I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>>> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
>>> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
>>> his system.
>>>
>>> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
>>> systemd. Like:
>>>
>>> Brian Wood writes:
>>> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
>>> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>>>
>>> A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
>>> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>>>
>>> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>>>
>>> Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
>>> systemd.
>>>
>>> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
>>> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
>>> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
>>> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
>>> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
>>> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
>>> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
>>> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
>>> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>>>
>>> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
>>> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
>>> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
>>> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
>>> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>>>
>>>         ...Akkana
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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