[conspire] Federales in Portland?

[Ruben Safir]

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 03:22:48PM +0200, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:
> On 7/23/20 1:14 PM, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> >On 22Jul2020 09:40pm (+0200), Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote:
> >>In Germany they put down swastikas and put up memorials to the holocaust.
> >>Would it have been wrong if it had not been chosen democratically, by the
> >>majority of Germans?
> 
> >Are you suggesting that the history of the Nazis has vanished, somehow?  That no one is taught it simply because the monuments are gone?
> 
> I'm suggesting exactly the opposite. They took down the swastikas
> BUT they put up memorials. On the other hand you can visit Auschwitz
> concentration camp. Saying that putting down statues is "cancel
> culture" is pretty naïve if not hypocritical.
> 

It is not hypocritical.  It is spot on.  You can't use Nazi Germany as a
yard stick for all civilization for all history.

Every hisotical figure in history, not just European history, is an
anti-semetic bigot with blood on there hands and a repressor of the
masses.


> Now, suppose you've an interest in preserving those statues (why?).
> Is it your only issue? or rather you've two issues: saving the
> statues and contribute to stop hundreds of years of discrimination?
> 
> That says something.
> 
> Now I'd expect you'd first care about contributing to stop hundreds
> of years of discrimination otherwise that also say something.

I have absolutely no interest in that agenda.  I think that agenda is a
fraud, and useless, and an excuse for leftwing radicals to pull at my
heart strings, rewrite hisotry, and to kill people that don't follow the
party line.

> 
> I'd expect you first speak up in favour of discriminated people, but
> generally people that speaks about statues forget this step.
> Just coincidence.
> 
> Then you'd ask, OK, I did something in support of discriminated
> people. Now it's time to take care of the statues.
> 
> Is it going to do any good? How many statues are you going to save
> without enforcing discrimination?
> 
> Especially when your interest in "historical memory" doesn't sound
> that genuine and you have really never felt the consequences of
> hundreds of years of discrimination?
> 
> Let alone "opinions that matters".
> 
> Will they make donkeys fly?
> 
> Opinions matter just when they are enforced. They are not like facts.
> 
> 
> BTW does anyone remember what the Gay Pride celebrate?

That is just another group of mostly white priveledged middle class
people trying ride to coattails of Balack Americans who were former
slaves in the US, who have a more serious greviance and much more
complicated problem.



> Or do you believe you live in a perfect democratic system?
> Do you remember how you got the Crow laws?
> 

No, I never had them in my life and I grew up mostly in Black
communities.


> If you sincerely would like to save more statues it'd be better you
> change the laws rather than enforce them.
> 
> Oh and authority defying laws is way way different than people defying laws.
> 
> And if putting down statues makes some racist cry it may be
> sub-optimal but it can't be that bad.
> 
> And please no... Colombo (or whoever else) is a symbol, these things
> has happened in the past as well. Patronizing discriminated people
> on history today is as smart as wishing you could enforce your
> wishes on statues.
> 

Colobus was the discover of the New World for the West.  It was a
momentous accomplishment that has served as the springboard for the
foundation of the US, and the spread of liberal Western Democracy and
civil society...

All in all, it was a momentously positive thing, and I celebrate every
day as Columbus day.

We wouldn't be having this conversation without the contribution of
Christopher Columbus, although if not Columbus, I am sure someone else
would have discovered America, probably a Portugues, if the Portegues
didn't already know about the New World, which there is some evidence
of.



-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
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Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013