[conspire] recording activities of authorities [Re: Idiot waiver demands]

Tue Oct 12 11:57:33 PDT 2010

On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 02:42:19PM -0400, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> Ruben,
> you raise many points. i'm sure most of my answers won't appease you, but
> i'll try:

I promiesed I wouldn't post any more on this topic, so if you want to
continue, please privately email.  I do, however, strongly disagree with
you and just about every point you made.

> your point about Jews being persecuted is true, to a point. i think that in
> recent years this has gone down, specifically in the western world, and most
> specifically in the US, where ADL et al are raising voices about anything
> less then praising Jews (and lately, on things not concerning Jews at all).
> it might be more frequent in other, more rural parts of the US, definitely
> not in the bay area.
> in that regard, it is important to note the difference between
> antisemitism and anti-Israel. most of the protest going on in the western
> world today are aimed towards Israel as a state and it's policy, not on
> the nationality of the citizens. and in most of these cases, the official
> state of Israel finds it beneficial to spin those as antisemitic, to
> de-legitimize  the protest. this often comes on the expense on Jews outside
> of Israel, as they are being dragged into the fight and endangered by the
> same state that has pledged to keep them safe.
> also, it is worth noting that most of the resistance organisations in Gaza
> and Judea are not antisemitic and have not committed any violent acts
> outside of Israel/PA territory.
> so, your'e point about world hatred is wrong. if anything, we (as Israelis)
> are doing a good job in convincing everyone that any criticism against us
> means they hate us, and by that - pushing them towards it.
> but if anywhere - i would say that of all the places you can live in as a
> Jew - PA territories are probably the most dangerous for you. why is it
> again that you want to go live there? if you want to expand the official
> border (by making the PA territories part of Israel) - shouldn't you move to
> within Israel (place like Kfar Saba, or places more in need of development,
> like Sde-Boker in hte Negev)? settling in the heart of the dispute sounds
> like a provocation to me. maybe you do not share that.
> frankly, i'm not sure i am against having the state of Israel from the see
> to the river. HOWEVER, you will need to take the people who currently live
> there and make them part of your country, as equal citizens. we are in the
> 21st century and second grade citizens are not something taken lightly. a
> state where Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Muslims live together and in
> harmony is my utopia as well, not just yours.
> if, however, you think that the way to do that is to transfer them to other
> locations (i think you mentioned the term 'ethnic cleansing'), than i will
> argue with you in more ways than emails. everything that was done to you
> does not entitle you to do the same, and if you do - you deserve all
> that persecution and more. you will not need me to demonize you.
> 
> Ehud
> 
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:55:58AM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > > Ruben,
> > > based on the horrors you describe below, i'm not sure why you would
> > > want to move back there (unless you want to do it for spike, but i'm
> > > sure you are not that kind of person).
> >
> > I can appreciate this, but the horrors they faced nearly 150 years ago
> > isn't really any different then what Jews have faced just about
> > everywhere, and I'm not certain that the long term future in the US is
> > assured either.  At this point I think I'd rather take my chances in
> > Judea then anywhere else.  Nothing new is under the sun in this regard.
> >
> > > if you still want to move to a your farmland on PA territory you will
> > > need to talk with them, just as if someone, who was driven out of
> > > Poland in WWII and would want to go back to a land they own, they
> > > would still need to get residence approval from the Polish government.
> >
> >
> > I might do that if I was Polish, but since we are both Jewish, our
> > ancerterial homeland  and is Israel ... from the Jordan to the Sea.
> > While I appreciate your diplomacy, and I hope I'm returning it in kind,
> > the Green line is a meaningless ceasefire line and I certainly won't let
> > it prevent me from returning to country and the land, whether my
> > family's exile had taken it to Spain, Russia, Lithania, Belerussia,
> > Poland, Africa, Turkey, Iraq or  India, (all of which but India is in my
> > family background).  It is still a forced exile and we will return.
> >
> > > as you probably are too, I am sure the day when the PA will have an
> > > immigration authority is near, and hopefully you can wait until then.
> > > if not, you can probably try and sell that land to the Palestinians -
> >
> > That is speculation, but from what I see and hear, it is highly
> > unlikely.  Where ever we have made concessions, not just in Israel, but
> > even worldwide, the land had been "ethnically cleanced" of Jews.  That
> > is the lynchpin issue that holds up any chance for a settlement over the
> > areas of Israel occupied by Palestinian.  I don't know how things are
> > going to go forward, but I don't think any Jewish Government is going to
> > find the necessary votes to allow it to rip up Jewish communities in
> > Israel, and especially in Jerusalem.  Nor do I think they will leave
> > them unprotected.  But this is the quagmire, right.  And rational
> > discussion melts down very quickly on these issue.  But when I do settle
> > in the Judean Hills, and I will, without a doubt do so in the near
> > future, I hope that you will not be looking to demonize my family.  I'm
> > sure your aware, as an Israeli Jews, that pulling out Judea and Sameria
> > is not as simple as if Jews occupied Poland by force and simply pulled
> > out of Warsaw.  We don't pray for rain to fall in the winters of
> > Poland...
> >
> >
> >
> > > an act that would definitely help bestow friendship and start the
> > > recovery process from the traumas both nations are suffering from. i
> > > am sure that some day in the near future we can all travel to the PA,
> > > using our passports, and you can have coffee with the people who would
> > > buy it from you.
> > >
> > > PS
> > > i have heard that there are other, more forceful ways of settling back
> > > amongst the Palestinians, but I do not subscribe to those, so there's
> > > no point asking my advise on those.
> > >
> >
> > > Ehud
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/11/10, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 07:32:19AM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > > >> Hebron might be a bit rough. I heard that Ramalla has a very vibrent
> > night
> > > >> life. However, I am an Israeli, and every migration east of the green
> > line
> > > >> should be worked with the PA (Palestinian authority).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the information.  I'm not worried about night life.  I think
> > > > I'm going to send my son to the Jerusalem branch of the Mireer Yeshiva.
> > > > But I don't think it is a wise idea to go to the Palestinians about
> > > > moving to Israel.  The last time my family left their safety to the
> > > > Palestinian Muslims, and the Ottamon Turks, they killed about 300
> > > > members of the family, and kidnapped 4 of the young women, who as
> > family
> > > > lore says at least, were forced to convert to Islam.  That resulted in
> > > > the remainder of the family, 13 member or of about 300 hundred family
> > > > members, to move to NY in 1861.  They had several acres of terreced
> > > > farmland in the hills around Hebron.  I visited the area, and like the
> > > > rest of the Judian Hills, today it remains largly fallow.  I also
> > looked
> > > > up some of the residences we had deeds for.  A few are destroyed,
> > > > perhaps in the 1929 riots, but the rest are occupied by Palestinian
> > > > Moslems although they still have the Mezzuza Slots on the doorways.
> > > >
> > > > We've tried to bring our documents of land ownership to both the
> > > > Isreali's and the PA but they ignored it.  But I am interested in
> > > > resettling in Hebron, but I'm looking at possible alternates closer the
> > > > Yerushalium.
> > > >
> > > > Ruben
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>  On Oct 11, 2010 5:50 AM, "Ruben Safir" <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> > > >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 09:39:27PM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > > >> >> this is one type of evidence collection you can do. though the
> > problem
> > > >> is,
> > > >> >> you still need to point it and if someone notices and takes it, you
> > are
> > > >> out
> > > >> >> of luck.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> in my home country, settlers and soldiers (and cops) are
> > confiscating
> > > >> >> cameras left and right from political activists. if such a camera
> > would
> > > >> have
> > > >> >> a wireless or cellular card, that can transmit on the spot - even
> > if
> > > >> >> the
> > > >> >> device is taken in a few seconds - the footage is already out
> > there. in
> > > >> >> those situations, the problem is not to hide the fact you are
> > recording
> > > >> or
> > > >> >> the hardware, but the ability to prevent forceful deletions.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> still, probably a good thing to have.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Ehud
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I was wondering Ehud, which settlement community would you most
> > > >> > recommend to move to. I was consiodering Hebron because my family
> > > >> > originally lived there, but as I explore the possibilities some of
> > the
> > > >> > other communities seem like good options.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Ruben
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Tony Godshall <tony at of.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > This is the one I got
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >>
> > http://www.buyincoins.com/key-chain-spy-camera-camcorder-dv-dvr-tf-card-product-1311.html
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Tested it today with a 1GB MicroSD
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Works as advertised.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Best Regards.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 20:59, Ehud Kaldor <
> > ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> >> > > please do!
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Tony Godshall <tony at of.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> >> > >> ...
> > > >> >> > >> > You want to be not readily seen since many police officers
> > will
> > > >> cease
> > > >> >> > >> > independent footage first and worry about legality later.
> > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> >> > >> Ordered a keychain spy-cam for $15 the other day after seeing
> > the
> > > >> >> > >> great 720p video it produced taped to a velomobile
> > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> >> > >> If it works out, I'll share the details...
> > > >> >> > >>
> > > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> > >> conspire mailing list
> > > >> >> > >> conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > > >> >> > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> > >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> > conspire mailing list
> > > >> >> > conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > > >> >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >> conspire mailing list
> > > >> >> conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > > >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> > > >> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn,
> > like
> > > >> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world -
> > RI
> > > >> Safir 1998
> > > >> >
> > > >> > http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS -
> > RI
> > > >> > Safir
> > > >> 2002
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming
> > sharecroppers to
> > > >> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our
> > own
> > > >> society."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> > > >> damned.<
> > > >> > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology
> > have
> > > >> been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I
> > guess
> > > >> you
> > > >> missed that one."
> > > >> >
> > > >> > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> > > > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > > >
> > > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn,
> > like
> > > > Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  -
> > RI
> > > > Safir 1998
> > > >
> > > > http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI
> > Safir
> > > > 2002
> > > >
> > > > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
> > > >
> > > > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers
> > to our
> > > > own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own
> > > > society."
> > > >
> > > > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> > damned.<
> > > > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have
> > been
> > > > attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess
> > you
> > > > missed that one."
> > > >
> > > > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> >
> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like
> > Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  - RI
> > Safir 1998
> >
> > http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI
> > Safir 2002
> >
> > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
> >
> > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to
> > our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own
> > society."
> >
> > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> > damned.<
> > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have
> > been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess
> > you missed that one."
> >
> > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
> >

-- 
http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software

So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  - RI Safir 1998

http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002

"Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"

"The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."

"> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be damned.<
You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess you missed that one."

© Copyright for the Digital Millennium