[conspire] recording activities of authorities [Re: Idiot waiver demands]

Tue Oct 12 11:42:19 PDT 2010

Ruben,
you raise many points. i'm sure most of my answers won't appease you, but
i'll try:
your point about Jews being persecuted is true, to a point. i think that in
recent years this has gone down, specifically in the western world, and most
specifically in the US, where ADL et al are raising voices about anything
less then praising Jews (and lately, on things not concerning Jews at all).
it might be more frequent in other, more rural parts of the US, definitely
not in the bay area.
in that regard, it is important to note the difference between
antisemitism and anti-Israel. most of the protest going on in the western
world today are aimed towards Israel as a state and it's policy, not on
the nationality of the citizens. and in most of these cases, the official
state of Israel finds it beneficial to spin those as antisemitic, to
de-legitimize  the protest. this often comes on the expense on Jews outside
of Israel, as they are being dragged into the fight and endangered by the
same state that has pledged to keep them safe.
also, it is worth noting that most of the resistance organisations in Gaza
and Judea are not antisemitic and have not committed any violent acts
outside of Israel/PA territory.
so, your'e point about world hatred is wrong. if anything, we (as Israelis)
are doing a good job in convincing everyone that any criticism against us
means they hate us, and by that - pushing them towards it.
but if anywhere - i would say that of all the places you can live in as a
Jew - PA territories are probably the most dangerous for you. why is it
again that you want to go live there? if you want to expand the official
border (by making the PA territories part of Israel) - shouldn't you move to
within Israel (place like Kfar Saba, or places more in need of development,
like Sde-Boker in hte Negev)? settling in the heart of the dispute sounds
like a provocation to me. maybe you do not share that.
frankly, i'm not sure i am against having the state of Israel from the see
to the river. HOWEVER, you will need to take the people who currently live
there and make them part of your country, as equal citizens. we are in the
21st century and second grade citizens are not something taken lightly. a
state where Israelis and Palestinians, Jews and Muslims live together and in
harmony is my utopia as well, not just yours.
if, however, you think that the way to do that is to transfer them to other
locations (i think you mentioned the term 'ethnic cleansing'), than i will
argue with you in more ways than emails. everything that was done to you
does not entitle you to do the same, and if you do - you deserve all
that persecution and more. you will not need me to demonize you.

Ehud

On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 09:55:58AM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > Ruben,
> > based on the horrors you describe below, i'm not sure why you would
> > want to move back there (unless you want to do it for spike, but i'm
> > sure you are not that kind of person).
>
> I can appreciate this, but the horrors they faced nearly 150 years ago
> isn't really any different then what Jews have faced just about
> everywhere, and I'm not certain that the long term future in the US is
> assured either.  At this point I think I'd rather take my chances in
> Judea then anywhere else.  Nothing new is under the sun in this regard.
>
> > if you still want to move to a your farmland on PA territory you will
> > need to talk with them, just as if someone, who was driven out of
> > Poland in WWII and would want to go back to a land they own, they
> > would still need to get residence approval from the Polish government.
>
>
> I might do that if I was Polish, but since we are both Jewish, our
> ancerterial homeland  and is Israel ... from the Jordan to the Sea.
> While I appreciate your diplomacy, and I hope I'm returning it in kind,
> the Green line is a meaningless ceasefire line and I certainly won't let
> it prevent me from returning to country and the land, whether my
> family's exile had taken it to Spain, Russia, Lithania, Belerussia,
> Poland, Africa, Turkey, Iraq or  India, (all of which but India is in my
> family background).  It is still a forced exile and we will return.
>
> > as you probably are too, I am sure the day when the PA will have an
> > immigration authority is near, and hopefully you can wait until then.
> > if not, you can probably try and sell that land to the Palestinians -
>
> That is speculation, but from what I see and hear, it is highly
> unlikely.  Where ever we have made concessions, not just in Israel, but
> even worldwide, the land had been "ethnically cleanced" of Jews.  That
> is the lynchpin issue that holds up any chance for a settlement over the
> areas of Israel occupied by Palestinian.  I don't know how things are
> going to go forward, but I don't think any Jewish Government is going to
> find the necessary votes to allow it to rip up Jewish communities in
> Israel, and especially in Jerusalem.  Nor do I think they will leave
> them unprotected.  But this is the quagmire, right.  And rational
> discussion melts down very quickly on these issue.  But when I do settle
> in the Judean Hills, and I will, without a doubt do so in the near
> future, I hope that you will not be looking to demonize my family.  I'm
> sure your aware, as an Israeli Jews, that pulling out Judea and Sameria
> is not as simple as if Jews occupied Poland by force and simply pulled
> out of Warsaw.  We don't pray for rain to fall in the winters of
> Poland...
>
>
>
> > an act that would definitely help bestow friendship and start the
> > recovery process from the traumas both nations are suffering from. i
> > am sure that some day in the near future we can all travel to the PA,
> > using our passports, and you can have coffee with the people who would
> > buy it from you.
> >
> > PS
> > i have heard that there are other, more forceful ways of settling back
> > amongst the Palestinians, but I do not subscribe to those, so there's
> > no point asking my advise on those.
> >
>
> > Ehud
> >
> >
> > On 10/11/10, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 07:32:19AM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > >> Hebron might be a bit rough. I heard that Ramalla has a very vibrent
> night
> > >> life. However, I am an Israeli, and every migration east of the green
> line
> > >> should be worked with the PA (Palestinian authority).
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for the information.  I'm not worried about night life.  I think
> > > I'm going to send my son to the Jerusalem branch of the Mireer Yeshiva.
> > > But I don't think it is a wise idea to go to the Palestinians about
> > > moving to Israel.  The last time my family left their safety to the
> > > Palestinian Muslims, and the Ottamon Turks, they killed about 300
> > > members of the family, and kidnapped 4 of the young women, who as
> family
> > > lore says at least, were forced to convert to Islam.  That resulted in
> > > the remainder of the family, 13 member or of about 300 hundred family
> > > members, to move to NY in 1861.  They had several acres of terreced
> > > farmland in the hills around Hebron.  I visited the area, and like the
> > > rest of the Judian Hills, today it remains largly fallow.  I also
> looked
> > > up some of the residences we had deeds for.  A few are destroyed,
> > > perhaps in the 1929 riots, but the rest are occupied by Palestinian
> > > Moslems although they still have the Mezzuza Slots on the doorways.
> > >
> > > We've tried to bring our documents of land ownership to both the
> > > Isreali's and the PA but they ignored it.  But I am interested in
> > > resettling in Hebron, but I'm looking at possible alternates closer the
> > > Yerushalium.
> > >
> > > Ruben
> > >
> > >
> > >>  On Oct 11, 2010 5:50 AM, "Ruben Safir" <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:
> > >> > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 09:39:27PM -0700, Ehud Kaldor wrote:
> > >> >> this is one type of evidence collection you can do. though the
> problem
> > >> is,
> > >> >> you still need to point it and if someone notices and takes it, you
> are
> > >> out
> > >> >> of luck.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> in my home country, settlers and soldiers (and cops) are
> confiscating
> > >> >> cameras left and right from political activists. if such a camera
> would
> > >> have
> > >> >> a wireless or cellular card, that can transmit on the spot - even
> if
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> device is taken in a few seconds - the footage is already out
> there. in
> > >> >> those situations, the problem is not to hide the fact you are
> recording
> > >> or
> > >> >> the hardware, but the ability to prevent forceful deletions.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> still, probably a good thing to have.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ehud
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I was wondering Ehud, which settlement community would you most
> > >> > recommend to move to. I was consiodering Hebron because my family
> > >> > originally lived there, but as I explore the possibilities some of
> the
> > >> > other communities seem like good options.
> > >> >
> > >> > Ruben
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Tony Godshall <tony at of.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > This is the one I got
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >>
> http://www.buyincoins.com/key-chain-spy-camera-camcorder-dv-dvr-tf-card-product-1311.html
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Tested it today with a 1GB MicroSD
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Works as advertised.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Best Regards.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 20:59, Ehud Kaldor <
> ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> > > please do!
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Tony Godshall <tony at of.net>
> wrote:
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> ...
> > >> >> > >> > You want to be not readily seen since many police officers
> will
> > >> cease
> > >> >> > >> > independent footage first and worry about legality later.
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> Ordered a keychain spy-cam for $15 the other day after seeing
> the
> > >> >> > >> great 720p video it produced taped to a velomobile
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> If it works out, I'll share the details...
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > >> conspire mailing list
> > >> >> > >> conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > >> >> > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > conspire mailing list
> > >> >> > conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > >> >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > >> >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> conspire mailing list
> > >> >> conspire at linuxmafia.com
> > >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> > >> > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > >> >
> > >> > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn,
> like
> > >> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world -
> RI
> > >> Safir 1998
> > >> >
> > >> > http://fairuse.nylxs.com DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS -
> RI
> > >> > Safir
> > >> 2002
> > >> >
> > >> > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
> > >> >
> > >> > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming
> sharecroppers to
> > >> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our
> own
> > >> society."
> > >> >
> > >> > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> > >> damned.<
> > >> > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology
> have
> > >> been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt. I
> guess
> > >> you
> > >> missed that one."
> > >> >
> > >> > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> > > http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
> > >
> > > So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn,
> like
> > > Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  -
> RI
> > > Safir 1998
> > >
> > > http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI
> Safir
> > > 2002
> > >
> > > "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
> > >
> > > "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers
> to our
> > > own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own
> > > society."
> > >
> > > "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> damned.<
> > > You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have
> been
> > > attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess
> you
> > > missed that one."
> > >
> > > © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
> > >
>
> --
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Interesting Stuff
> http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
>
> So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like
> Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world  - RI
> Safir 1998
>
> http://fairuse.nylxs.com  DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI
> Safir 2002
>
> "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME"
>
> "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to
> our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own
> society."
>
> "> I'm an engineer. I choose the best tool for the job, politics be
> damned.<
> You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have
> been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess
> you missed that one."
>
> © Copyright for the Digital Millennium
>
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