[sf-lug] To Use Debian/systemd or Not to Use Debian/systemd (was Byfield's "Verdict"...)

[aaronco36]

Quoting Alex Kleider <akleider at sonic.net> from [01]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't have any "discontent", and I'm not so much "fretting" as wondering 
what might be suggested in the way of something with less, call it 'bloat' 
if you will.  Booting up my laptop (Lenovo ThinkPad X301 as mentioned) 
seems to take an  inordinately long time- I've assumed (rightly or 
wrongly, I'm not sure) that this was because there is a lot being loaded, 
much, if not most, of which I never use.

I'm still curious if what (again, rightly or wrongly) I perceive to be a 
movement away from Debian is because of systemd?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems to me that Alex K's comments in the current thread are similar 
enough and something of an extension to three of the threads from less 
than 1 1/4 years ago entitled 'installing minimal debian and building on 
that'[02], 'use 32 or 64 bit on 64 bit capable hardware: Re: installing 
minimal debian and building on that'[03], and 'debian base system 
(initially without X11) install progress (or lack there of!) report'[04].



Quoting Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> from [05]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The early years of LUGs featured a lot of people loudly trying to convince 
all comers that $SOME_DISTRO was the one true way for everyone, and pretty 
much immediately I classified distro-advocacy as noxious, just as 
OS-advocacy had always been before it -- and I decided to never do it, if 
humanly possible.

However, I know the question comes up even though I dislike it, so I FAQed 
what I hope is a suitably nuanced answer as part of my personal FAQ, and 
(necessary disclaimer) last updated that item a few years ago: 
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/kicking.html#distro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Rick has recommended in that very 'kicking' FAQ[06] that "newcomers should 
consider starting with Bodhi Linux, Linux Mint, Ultimate Edition, MEPIS 
Linux, or PCLinuxOS, for desktop Linux machines (not Devuan/Debian)" as 
well as "the (relentlessly marketed) "Ubuntu" distribution family, 
comprising Ubuntu Linux / Kubuntu / Lubuntu / Xubuntu". At the same time, 
it may help to be aware that there is/was _also_ the famous pejorative 
saying originally brought down from either [07] or [08];
"Ubuntu is an ancient african word, meaning "I can't configure Debian""
I'd presume that this saying similarly applies to the other 
n00B-recommended Ubuntu-based distros here (i.e., Bodhi Linux, Linux Mint 
and Ultimate Edition) as well as to the other currently popular 
Ubuntu-derived distros Zorin OS and elementary OS :-|

IMO, one of my own takes on [finally] advancing from one of these 
n00B-oriented distros to something that's much less of a "forehead 
install" (using Rick's term from [09]) is not only to read _good_ 
documentation beforehand, but to also eventually get to point of 
understanding and even perhaps _using_ some of the Expert install options 
that distros such as Devuan/Debian offer.



Quoting Alex Kleider <akleider at sonic.net> from [10]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One of the main take home messages I'm getting (and I guess it shouldn't 
come as a surprise) is that perhaps one might be better off without Gnome 
and time would be better spent trying to develop a system without it 
rather than fuss about the presence or absence of systemd.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Also, please do consider (or re-consider) Rick M's insightful comments 
from ~1.5 years ago at [11], starting from the line "About lightweight 
'desktops': " :-)


=============================================
REFERENCES
=============================================
[01]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2020q1/014556.html
[02]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q4/013548.html
[03]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q4/013552.html
[04]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q4/013574.html
[05]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2020q1/014554.html
[06]http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/kicking.html#distro
[07]https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Ubuntu
[08]https://web.archive.org/web/20080208114333/http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/06/26/essentials-2006
[09]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2020q1/014555.html
[10]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2020q1/014565.html
[11]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2018q3/013310.html
=============================================

aaronco36 at sdf.org