[sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting notes for Monday 18 March 2019

[Bobbie Sellers]

On 3/19/19 11:02 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com):
>
>> Rick you always assume the worst when I make mention of any problems I
>> have experienced.
> Bobbie, you seem to forget (1) people can judge what happened _only_ by
> what words were made available to describe events, and perhaps also
> (2) the purpose of user groups.
>
> When all you say is that [distro A] couldn't get online, so I tried
> [distro B], then pretty much anyone is going to wonder whether you
> did any diagnosis at all between the two halves of that sentence.  But
> that brings us back to the purpose of user groups, which IMO is to
> spread and perpetuate understanding of the technology in question.
>
> And that doesn't work if the message is 'Hey, I tried this distro and
> something didn't work, so I abandoned it and moved on to this other
> distro.'  Consider the message that sends.  It suggests that it's normal
> for Distro X to just not boot at all, and for Distro Y to have
> non-functional wireless, and, worse, that getting to the bottom of
> problems doesn't matter.

     I tried a bunch of Flash Drives sequentially as I have previously 
mentioned I am not installing
to hard drives or even SSD.  Since the cannot get on line prevents 
attempting to do any
sort of download or online information seeking at the alleged meeting
>
> Anyway, on the bright side, consider this an opportunity to make
> (figurative) lemonade:  1.  You can post information about your i386
> machine and about what specifically 'doesn't boot' means on the two
> distros you cited.  And we can help solve that.  2.  You can post
> information about the distros that 'could not get online' about what
> specifically that means.  And we can help solve that.  3. Given that
> you apparently want cutting-edge KDE application versions, you can amend
> the error of going for an inappropriate Debian branch that obviously you
> would not like, and try one you would.

     No you fail to understand my system of: here is a system you might 
want to use, take a good look at the
display and what is listed in the menues.  If you like it, here is the 
Flash Drive to take home and try out.
  Please return it at the next meeting, and if you are a regular 
attendee then I won't ask for a $5 deposit.

>
> And you could also take a couple of modest and easy steps after the end
> of installer operation to do things like install KDE theme packages and
> your preferred Web browser before (erroneously) proclaiming a distro
> deficient having not bothered to do those things.

      I don't run installers at the meeting, unless someone contacts me 
in advance and shows up at the meeting
by 6 PM or 11 AM on Sundays.  I will make copies of iso files to media.  
This is due to time limitations of the
meeting.  I am running from a Flash Drive and downloading themes is 
something I don't care to spend
my time on.  I cannot give lectures about many topics in Linux for 
physical reasons as well as reasons
of ignorance, i.e. if I talk at length the muscles that control my voice 
get tired and I might as well have
  laryngitis.   Sadly I am the only regular attendee at these meetings 
and I show up so Jim Stockford
can get some rest as he asked me to do when the meeting place was moved 
from JavaCat to
Cafe Enchante.  Jim gives me ride home whenever he can.
>
>
> The fact that you tried something on a brand-new distribution and 'it
> didn't work' _doesn't_ mean it's irrelevant to this forum as you seem to
> assume.  To the contrary:  That is logically of great interest.  If you
> encountered a problem, odds are others may, too, and, if you spend a
> couple of minutes detailing what happened, then you and everyone else
> here can benefit from the problem and from its solution.  If you don't,
> then nobody learns anything.
>
>
>>      But here is something I did today I updated my LibreOffice
>> to 6.2.1 and was presented with a problem.
>> A file  libreoffice-openclipart  must be removed before it can
>> be replaced by the newer version and between removing
>> the file and replacing it with the new version if you want
>> clipart LibreOffice can be updated by LibreOffice Manager.
>> The file and the new version are listed here:
>>
>> libreoffice-openclipart (6.1-1pclos2018 => 6.2-1pclos2019)
> Show, don't tell.
>
> Try to do the update using primary console tools such as apt-get.
> (You didn't bother to identify your distribution, but my recollection is
> that you use PCLinuxOS.  PCLinuxOS uses a port of the apt toolkit to rpm
> packages.)
     Yes as the backend to Synaptic.
     The use of apt is discouraged.
>
> Yes, I know that you probably would rather use Synaptic, the gtk
> graphical front-end to apt.  The problem in present context is that you
> cannot copy and paste into a mailing list posting the sequence of events
> that happen when you try to use a tool like Synaptic.  So, something
> like this

Not on your life.  There are times when I have to use it and try 
remember everything I have
forgotten in the last few years
But I was used to using urpmi on the Mandriva machine and having to site 
surf all over the world
to find a file that had been left for whatever reason out of the repository.
> 1.  Open a console.  Become the root user.  (If PCLinuxOS is afflicted
> with sudo mediation of root access, then do 'sudo su -' to become root.)
> Following commands are shown with '#' as the command prompt to indicate
> that this is happening at a root-user shell prompt.
>
> 2.  # apt-get update
>
> This ensures that the system's records about available rpms is up to
> date.
>
> 3.  # apt-get install [whatever]
>
> Here's the important bit:  Copy and paste into a posting to
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com that command and what results, to give us
> meaningful verbatim diagnostic data.  Otherwise, it's very, very
> difficult for anyone to help you, because we cannot see what you are
> seeing.
>
> It's really, really important to include relevant, verbatim detail if
> problems are to get solved and mailing list subscribers are to learn
> from the experience (not to mention you getting solutions).  Otherwise,
> the process ends at you saying '[something] didn't work', because
> 'didn't work' is essentially never a symptom amenable to diagnosis.
>
>
> But, that aside, what actual problem are you trying to solve?
>
> If I understand you correctly, some unspecified piece of software is
> telling you that you must remove 'file' (which you later describe not as
> a file but rather a package) libreoffice-openclipart, before LibreOffice
> 6.2.1 can be installed -- and that if you want clipart, then LibreOffice
> Manager (also known as lomanager; see
> http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=59009.0 ) can replace the
> clipart after you install 6.2.1.  OK, then?
>
> Sounds like you should do that.  Sounds plausible to me, at least.  So,
> given that, what's the problem exactly?

     The instructions I gave above present you with a quandary You 
cannot update to the newer package
until the older package is deleted by Synaptic and the update ilists the 
new version of LibreOffice as
a dependency of  libreoffice-openclipart 6.2-1pclos2019 and refuses to 
install.

     On PCLinusOS we are lucky to be using Synaptic as the tool it 
replaces is even older and
further out of date though still in use on Mageia and perhaps some of 
the other distributions
that claim Mandrake/Mandriva heritage.

>
> See http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php?topic=59009.0 if unclear
> about how PCLinuxOS's lomanager thingie is claimed to work.  Hope that
> helps!
>
>
     23 minutes is long enough to wait for my breakfast while I reply to 
your lengthy
screed.

     bliss
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