[sf-lug] Considering purchasing a lightweight laptop: thoughts Thinkpad X1 carbon vs. Thinkpad T460S

Tue Dec 27 08:32:37 PST 2016

My intention was to skim through the scripts looking for anything I
already tried manually that crashed the aforementioned Skylake laptop
running Fedora at CABAL, after I already got my own "new old" laptop
set up with Optimus. Mine is Ivy Bridge, because nothing newer has
oldfangled things like ExpressCard, and it didn't need writing all
those scripts, because Ubuntu packages the nVidia proprietary drivers
using the Debian framework, which accomplishes your stated goal _just
by itself_.

On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Antonio Malcolm
<antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Intel CPU shouldn't matter. One of my three aforementioned rigs is
> Skylake, the other, Ivy Bridge, the other, Haswell.
>
> There’s a lot that goes on, before and after powering down the GPU. Without
> an X session, there's no point to even using the scripts, so I'm not sure
> what your intention was.
>
>
> ~Antonio
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2016 2:06 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>
> The point of modprobing bbswitch before X was running was to power off
> the discrete GPU. I was assuming your machine is not Skylake, but
> maybe I was wrong?
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:55 AM, Antonio Malcolm
> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ah, what was the point of switching without X?
>> No wonder it didn't work. Was there even a point, other than challenging a
>> guy trying to share something potentially useful, and for free?
>>
>>
>> ~Antonio
>>
>> On Dec 27, 2016 1:48 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>>
>>> This was without having started X in the first place. Whatever.
>>> Skylake won't be production-ready on laptops for years to come.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 1:09 AM, Antonio Malcolm
>>> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > AH, and the first thing that comes to my mind, based on your
>>> > description, is
>>> > that you're not employing a callback, to kill and restart X (this is
>>> > required, because X can't reload drivers on-the-fly, and must be
>>> > restarted,
>>> > to load the replacement drivers).
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps, when you think your machine has locked, you should try
>>> > CTRL+ALT+F1,
>>> > to drop into a shell. If you can drop into a shell, you know X crapped
>>> > out
>>> > on you, and you need to provide the callback.
>>> >
>>> > In my case, I use lightdm, so my callback consists of:
>>> >
>>> > sv restart lightdm
>>> >
>>> > Which restarts the X session.
>>> > Next part of my work will be sorting out if we can/how to preserve
>>> > application state, and reload the apps after restarting X.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ~Antonio
>>> >
>>> > On Dec 27, 2016 12:58 AM, "Antonio Malcolm" <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> You've obviously read the code wrong, or didn't read it, or didn't
>>> >> read
>>> >> the preceding documentaion. Most of all, you've obviously not run it
>>> >> (or
>>> >> something is very wrong with your configs).
>>> >>
>>> >> Like I said, I have it running, successfully, on three different rigs.
>>> >> I
>>> >> can swap between Nvidia, Intel, and Optimus whenever, on any of the
>>> >> three,
>>> >> and I do.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you have any error output, or questions about use, feel free to let
>>> >> me
>>> >> know. I have no problem with helping anyone use it.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ~Antonio
>>> >>
>>> >> On Dec 27, 2016 12:46 AM, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>>> >> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> One of the first things your code does is to modprobe bbswitch, which
>>> >> immediately locked up the whole machine just by itself without even a
>>> >> kernel panic.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:43 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>>> >> <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > Oops! Forgot to add sflug-
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The question he's answering is:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > "Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which
>>> >> > precludes
>>> >> > the
>>> >> > reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?"
>>> >> >
>>> >> > If he plans on using the Nvidia GPU, proprietary is going to be his
>>> >> > best
>>> >> > route. Nouveau drivers won't cut the mustard, for either performance
>>> >> > or
>>> >> > power-efficiency.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > OTOH, they replace the open source GL drivers...
>>> >> > Though there are ways of having both.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -At the risk of tooting my own horn (mea culpa), I have one such
>>> >> > solution,
>>> >> > which works, for me, across three different machines, with three
>>> >> > different
>>> >> > architectures and three different Nvidia GPUs:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > https://forum.voidlinux.eu/t/optimus-opengl-on-both-nvidia-and-intel-have-your-cake-eat-it-too/181
>>> >> >
>>> >> > In any case, he will hopefully share his use-case.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Mayhaps his need for dual-booting involves some gaming? In that
>>> >> > case,
>>> >> > dual-booting is his best option, and he should stick with the Intel
>>> >> > GPU,
>>> >> > for
>>> >> > the Linux install, as he'll get the best power efficiency.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Also worth considering, are the external-facing video ports on this
>>> >> > line
>>> >> > of
>>> >> > machines connected to the Intel GPU, or the Nvidia (it may very well
>>> >> > vary,
>>> >> > by model)?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ~Antonio
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Dec 26, 2016 23:16, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>>> >> > <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Unknown. All I can say is that I spent many hours down at CABAL
>>> >> > trying
>>> >> > to get such a laptop to work without blacklisting all modules which
>>> >> > could possibly touch the chip, and I never succeeded. I do not
>>> >> > remember whether I attempted to install the proprietary nVidia
>>> >> > drivers
>>> >> > as well, and I likely didn't, because the use case left no room for
>>> >> > them, and I did not trust RPM to clean up after them.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 11:06 PM, Antonio Malcolm
>>> >> > <antonio.malcolm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> Eh? Is there something about the Skylake architecture, which
>>> >> >> precludes
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> reliable use of proprietary GPU drivers?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> ~Antonio
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Dec 26, 2016 22:12, "Daniel Gimpelevich"
>>> >> >> <daniel at gimpelevich.san-francisco.ca.us> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> And if you do get a Skylake laptop for GNU/Linux, avoid discrete
>>> >> >>> graphics like the plague.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>> >> >>> > Quoting Jon Lam (jonplam at gmail.com):
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> >> I do not mean to hijack this discussion. Does anyone have any
>>> >> >>> >> experience
>>> >> >>> >> running dual boot Windows and Linux on the Acer V Nitro?  I
>>> >> >>> >> have
>>> >> >>> >> a
>>> >> >>> >> older
>>> >> >>> >> mid 2010 Mac Book Pro and am looking at a different
>>> >> >>> >> configuration.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > I'll be very surprised if anyone on this mailing list satisfies
>>> >> >>> > that
>>> >> >>> > extremely specific request.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > If as I suspect nobody says "By a freakish coincidence, I happen
>>> >> >>> > to
>>> >> >>> > dual-boot that exact model.  What do you want to know?", perhaps
>>> >> >>> > you
>>> >> >>> > can
>>> >> >>> > follow up by saying what actual problem you're trying to solve.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > For example, you might be trying to ask "Would I have Linux
>>> >> >>> > driver
>>> >> >>> > problems on an Acer V Nitro?"  Part of your problem there is
>>> >> >>> > that
>>> >> >>> > Acer
>>> >> >>> > V
>>> >> >>> > Nitro isn't a specific model.  It's the marketing name for a
>>> >> >>> > series
>>> >> >>> > of
>>> >> >>> > laptop models, all of them pitched at gamers.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > All of those use Intel Skylake-architecture motherboard chipsets
>>> >> >>> > and
>>> >> >>> > Nvidia GTX960M graphics chips.  I personally wouldn't touch
>>> >> >>> > Skylake
>>> >> >>> > at
>>> >> >>> > this point.  Linux support requires a fairly cutting-edge
>>> >> >>> > kernels
>>> >> >>> > as
>>> >> >>> > Matthew Garrett described this past April:
>>> >> >>> > https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html
>>> >> >>> > As far as cutting-edge Nvidia graphics chips aimed at gamers,
>>> >> >>> > I'd
>>> >> >>> > personally avoid those, too, as they're open source-hostile.
>>> >> >>> > (You
>>> >> >>> > would
>>> >> >>> > end up needing to retrofit Nvidia's  propritary drivers.)
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > Why Acer V Nitro?  Gamer usage?
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > Also, unless you have something about your use-case that is best
>>> >> >>> > addressed with dual boot, consider a VM solution instead, so you
>>> >> >>> > can
>>> >> >>> > use both OSes concurrently and needn't juggle a complicated
>>> >> >>> > bootloader
>>> >> >>> > setup.  In my experience, dual-boot is almost always a tactical
>>> >> >>> > error,
>>> >> >>> > most often chosen mainly because the user didn't consider
>>> >> >>> > alternatives.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> > sf-lug mailing list
>>> >> >>> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> >> >>> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> >> >>> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>>> >> >>> > Related Information <br>
>>> >> >>> > http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>>> >> >>> > http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> >> >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> >> >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> >> >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>>> >> >>> Related Information <br>
>>> >> >>> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>>> >> >>> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > sf-lug mailing list
>>> >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> >> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>>> >> > Related Information <br>
>>> >> > http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>>> >> > http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> sf-lug mailing list
>>> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>>> >> Related Information <br>
>>> >> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>>> >> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
>>> Related Information <br>
>>> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
>>> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/<br>
> Related Information <br>
> http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/<br>
> http://explainshell.com/ <br>
>
>