[sf-lug] Backups are important
jturner at nonzerosums.org
Wed Nov 21 08:46:11 PST 2007
Traipsing through the thread...
Kristian Erik Hermansen wrote:
> And in terms of backup software...
Ugh, another list. Not what I'm looking for but a fine addition for the
Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):
>> You're a professional. This isn't the right solution for you. I'm not
>> really suggesting it for you.
Yep, that's the point that I thought was getting lost too. And then...
> When I was a novice, I didn't like my time being pointlessly wasted
> then, either. ;->
> A nice little ncurses-driven menued utility is just about exactly right
> for a restore routine, I've found.
Ahh. Well, *true*, even as a novice I'd find a two hour simple restore
operation incredibly painful(even with GUI hand holding). So an
"ncurses-driven menued utility" sounds nice... Did I miss the name of
>> Here's the thing: WHile it's a two-hour minimum for each machine for you
>> to waste time with these GUI backup tools' long dependency chain, it's a
>> probably at least a one-month job to teach solid command-line
>> understanding to someone lacking the kind of experience we have.
> Are you _sure_ you don't need some help beating all those straw men you
> keep hurling out? I mean, *I* can tell the difference between "boot a
> CD, it enters directly into an ncurses-driven rootine that asks you a
> couple of questions and retores your data" and "a one-month job to
> teach solid command-line understanding". Are we supposed to believe
> you don't?
Ok, off the rails for me. Originally, I'd thought that Asheesh's point
around a GUI tool for folks unfamiliar/uncomfortable with CLI tools was
not understood. Then I thought, "perhaps Rick thinks such users just
have to suck it up and become friends with the CLI". But *then* this
mention of an ncurses client seems to be tacit acknowledgment of the
need for a novice user-friendly tool. So please tell me the name of
this ncurses based client! ;-p
And just in case I *did* miss it earlier -- my apologies.
>> Every night a backup job runs that backs up the whole filesystem for
>> filesystems I care about. (It uses incremental storage via hard links.)
>> Once that completes, the system removes any backups that are more than a
>> week old, except if by removing that job the system would remove the last
>> existing backup. This means that during normal system operation I can go
>> back as little as a day and as much as a week, and I can always get the
>> latest backup if it's older than a week.
Ahh, this is some of the info I was curious about. Backup tool isn't
named but a bit of his scheme is revealed.
>> As for "distant", the backups of the machine in my parents' basement (in
>> Rochester, NY) are stored in Tokyo; the machine in Tokyo is backed up to
>> San Francisco; the machine in San Francisco is backed up to somewhere else
>> in San Francisco.
> So, the reason I ask about number of generations and offsite versus
> onsite locality is that it's often prohibitive of bandwidth, in
> practice, to do timely ongoing backups with a reasonable number of
> generations retained, across commodity home broadband links. Sometimes
> yes, sometimes no. I'm glad it works for you, regardless of details.
> As I said, I like rsync quite a bit.
Yes yes yes. With access to big remote networked disks, I went crazy
for a time thinking I could maintain a [large] number of
snapshots/generations of various backed up systems. In most cases(the
ones hanging off commodity broadband links), network performance quickly
became the limiting factor and, some might say, forced me to restore
[some] sanity to my schemes.
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