[conspire] Mailing Lists: Mailman 2 -> Mailman 3, or something different? [was some other subject]

[Ron / BCLUG]

Rick Moen wrote on 2024-02-08 16:02:

> This version of Mailman does not support DMARC "mitigations", by the
> way, and that problem cannot be cured until I migrate off this
> system software build to something more modern.
> 
> At that time, I'll also have to contend with the "Mailman 2.7.x has long
> been EOLed, and Mailman 3 is horrible" problem that faces all Mailman
> 2.7.x sites.

I'm at this stage - Python2 was deprecated years ago and is not part of 
default installs on my systems.

Mailman2 works, but the web interface it hideous, and it too is 
deprecated (depends on Python2).

Looking at Mailman3's web interface, it's quite nice.

However, "some features are not yet implemented".

"Which ones?"

"..."


The upgrade path may not be too unmanageable, but I'm just not motivated 
enough to attempt it, despite needing the VPS it runs on for other projects.


So - quit hosting a mailing list?  Containerize it (this does not sound 
like a good use of containerization since postfix is running on the 
host, not in a container)?


Then, today, I heard something on a Linux Unplugged podcast episode - a 
*rumour* - that Linux Foundation had attempted to move to Mailman3 in 
2017, reverted, and is now considering moving all their mailing lists to 
Matrix.

Is that the nail in the coffin for an already moribund tech (mailing lists)?

At the 13:00 mark of episode 535: "Hit the Turbo", at:

https://linuxunplugged.com/535

Note that he said, "By end of year" and that episode is from November, 
so take that with as large a grain of salt as desired.

He also inferred that they were moving because "email is hard", where 
it's more likely *mailing lists* are hard, Mailman3 failed them, and 
email based solutions are simply unpopular.


12:50 to 14:05 is the entire relevant part - it's short.



> And what do the RHAT IBMers use, these days?  And Rocky Linux?

I'm gonna guess that whatever it is, it isn't email-based.


> the djbware choice (such as mlmmj, the
> modern reimplementation of ez-mlm's design) looks attractive on the
> surface at least to the degree of "doesn't notoriously suck".

There have been issues with Ottawa LUG's mailing list, which uses mlmmj, 
but I can't speak to whether it's from mis-configuration or the software 
itself.


> Any credible candidate has to at least have modern list-* headers
> required by the last couple'a decades of RFCs, and some equivalent of
> the DMARC mitigations you get in latter Mailman 2.7.x and all Mailman 3
> releases.  And VERP.  Probably other criteria, too, many of them
> necessitated by the spam war, but I can't think of those offhand, and
> worry about discovering them the hard way, through their absence.

I'll be watching for any updates on what choices you make and how you 
make the decision.


Also, *if* / when I upgrade to Mailman3, I'll keep this list posted on 
how it goes and if any of those missing features are notable.


rb