[conspire] (forw) Reminder that we are NextDoor's product, not customers
Rick Moen
rick at linuxmafia.com
Thu Nov 11 17:09:58 PST 2021
Passing this along, as Aaron wishes to contribute to this thread.
(Thanks, Aaron.)
Just a general comment: I strongly support NextDoor's ideals
of friendly helpfulness, and work hard at modeling it in every
comment there. (A number of local ND neighbours whom I mentioned
this bizarre incident to have said they're pretty shocked, as I'm
a leading example of avoiding interpersonal nastiness entirely,
and posting only carefully written, substantive comments. For
that matter, those friends are boggled that the ND Lead would
try to tell me I posted too many opinions and should in future
post none, for two reasons. 1. I'm unusual in _not_ pushing my
opinions, typically posting reliable information with sourcing,
instead. 2. As one friend put it, "Not post opinions? What the Hell
is ND used for _except_ people posting their opinions?")
Anyway, the larger point, and the real problem, is that NextDoor, Inc.'s
ideals have proven to not taken seriously by NextDoor, Inc. E.g.,
notoriously many Black Lives Matter supporters have been summarily
permabanned from the service over the past couple of years, having not
gone anywhere near violating the Guidelines.
The Guidelines are excellent. Their implementation is an utter sham.
But, if the corporation wants to be known as a refuge for white
supremacists, various other sorts of small-minded bigots, and
antivaxers, who resent anyone being allowed to post good information
they don't like, and want those people permabanned on the pretext of them
supposedly having "discriminated against, attacked, insulted, shamed,
bullied, or belittled others", so be it.
I got their number, back when I started seeing the forked-tongue
pattern, so I've been totally not surprised at the doublespeak.
(Relevant to another of Aaron's points, if people _do_ elect to
use ND, be wary of their data-mining, which is cheeky enough to do
Facebook credit. E.g., never load the site except in a private
browsing window/tab. These guys are piratical.)
----- Forwarded message from aaronco36 <aaronco36 at SDF.ORG> -----
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 22:18:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: aaronco36 <aaronco36 at SDF.ORG>
To: rick at linuxmafia.com
cc: aaronco36 at sdf.org
Subject: Re: (forw) Reminder that we are NextDoor's product, not customers
Hi Rick,
Am neither subscribed to your Local mailing list for the CABAL Linux
user group http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire nor do I
wish to be subscribed to this at the current time.
At the same time, I separately wish to respond to its thread within
the above subjectline. My apologies for unintended errors that may
have arisen within.
----------------
Quoting from your/Rick M's recently posted a Nextdoor, Inc-related
link from your/his main 'Dept. of Web-Search Juice:' linuxmafia.com
site, link [01]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Account temporarily disabled
>
> Your account has been temporarily disabled for a violation of this
> Community Guideline:
>
> Be respectful to your neighbours
> We want all neighbours to feel welcome, safe, and respected on
Nextdoor.
> When conversations turn disagreeable, everyone on Nextdoor
> suffers.
Our
> Guidelines prohibit posts and replies that discriminate against,
attack,
> insult, shame, bully, or belittle others.
>
> Learn moreabout this guideline and our moderation process.
> Sign in again in 4 days (Feb 18)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Furthermore, quoting Nextdoor, Inc's quasi-welcoming 'Hi neighbor,
welcome to the legal hub' webpage [02]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> From top to bottom, department to department, colleague to
> colleague,
Nextdoors company culture is one thats committed to our values.
Paramount among them is earning trust. Below, youll find an expression
of that value - the Legal Team has compiled a variety of helpful
resources so that you - neighbors and organizations - can easily
access information.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(( So, a request from Nextdoor, Inc. for "trust" in itself from its
neighbor and organizational users, eh? ))
That legal hub webpage also includes as of this writing...
- The Member Agreement last updated June 15th of this year [03]
- The Privacy Policy last updated June 15th of this year [04]
- The still-enforced but currently undated Community Guidelines [05]
There is also Nextdoor, Inc's revised 'Community Guidelines Updates -
October 2021' webpage [06]
Note this extensive, deliberately-selected, and "moderation"-relevant
snippet from the enforced Community Guidelines Updates link [06] in
respect to further contents of your/Rick M's above-referenced recent
Nextdoor, Inc-related posting....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guidelines removed as stand alone sections or as bullets within
existing guidelines
* Ranting and over posting
* Profanity
* Conflicts and personal disputes
* Fundraising
* Conflict of interest
* Joining as a couple
* Posting personal ads
Does that mean that ranting, profanity, etc are now allowed on Nextdoor?
No. If you believe that someones behavior is uncivil whether its
ranting, profanity, a personal dispute, or otherwise you should
report the message or vote to remove it as part of the overarching Be
respectful to your neighbors guideline.
Similarly, if you believe someones behavior is fraudulent or deceptive
whether that is a fundraising post, recommendation for a business,
personal ads, or otherwise you should also report those messages or
vote to remove them as part of the overarching Do not engage in
harmful activity guideline.
In essence, these changes empower local moderators to use their best
judgement in determining whether a post is annoying or truly harmful.
Moderation actions should only be taken when posts and comments are
truly harmful to the neighborhood. If you find someones post
personally annoying, simply hide the post or mute the neighbor as you
see fit.
Why is this change being made?
There are multiple reasons:
* Simplification: We have received lots of feedback that the
Guidelines are too long and therefore difficult to fully understand.
This is a first step toward simplifying them and removing
redundancies, and Nextdoor's Policy Team will continue to make
adjustments in the future as called for to best support the broader
community.
* Flexibility for moderators: We know many moderators felt pressure
to remove messages that they didnt necessarily believe were harmful to
their neighborhood because they technically violated a guideline. Our
goal is to empower moderators to act in the best interests of their
community as they see it, rather than feeling obligated to enforce
rules they dont necessarily believe are helpful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OTOH, seems that more and more persons are agreeing with
'ComprehensiveHurry61' in their recent comment at the Reddit thread
'Nextdoor invited me to be a "Community Reviewer." Thought I could
help make things less racist / xenophobic / conspiracy theory-pushing.
Nope.' [07], specifically....
"Delete NextDoor, it causes neighborhood division. You do not need the
stress in your life, Left or Right."
While Nextdoor, Inc. has a 'Delete your account' section at [08], at
the same time and according to the specific sections 2, 3, 4, 6, 7 and
11 of Nextdoor, Inc's current Privacy Policy [04], certain pieces of
data from deleted user accounts' Personal Information (PI) and even
Personally Identifiable Information may still be retained (no doubt
data-mined and marketed to distraction!!) by Nextdoor, Inc. and its
known|unknown third party partners/affiliates.
IMHO, that's very much in sync with the following relevant snippet
taken from your/Rick M's past essay entitled 'WINOLJ-OOW2.0C'[09]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Data Problem
That includes, but certainly isn't limited to, our keeping custody of
our own data. Many of these new "Web 2.0" businesses tout the
"convenience" of doing the opposite: entrusting our personal and
business data to their specialised Web-based servers, and then
manipulating that data remotely via AJAX-driven messaging from our Web
browsers, so that all that confidential material lives on the
service's data store.
Let's say you start using some of those. Now, you have an entirely new
class of worries: Your files are accessible only when your Internet
connection is up. They're at the mercy of your vendor's security
problems, reliability, management, and funding shortfalls. They may
vanish if the firms change their business models, go broke, or undergo
many other types of abrupt change, possibly even just to silence
critics. Not only may the firms pry into and abuse knowledge of your
personal affairs, so may their business partners and people with both
legitimate and illegitimate access. Check the fine print in your
service agreements: You'll probably find out that there not only are
big holes in your privacy, but also that you specifically consented to
them.
Did I mention those business partners? One of the lessons of the USA
"Nationwide Do Not Call List" is that there's an exception (in its
enabling legislation and just about all other privacy laws) for firms
you have an "existing business relationship" with, plus their
subsidiaries and allied businesses. Guess what? When you sign up with
one of the "Web 2.0" companies, that's a business relationship: You've
just given them leave to market you to distraction.
The service agreement may (and probably does) say that all users' data
remains their property, but in situations like those, yours is on
long-term loan, and subject to all manner of uses you might strongly
dislike. Experience suggests that "Possession is nine points of the
law", and the best way to prevent abuse of your personal data by
strangers is not to give it to them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And Steve Litt quoted this telling excerpt from [10]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ben Franklin once said "They that can give up essential liberty to
obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor
safety.". To that I add that those giving up the liberty for safety
eventually find themselves the most unsafe of all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As far as ND moderators' desires expressed within [01] of wanting "all
neighbours to feel welcome, safe, and respected on Nextdoor", I'd
revise Steve L's revision a bit further to ---> those giving up the
liberty of their own PI to Nextdoor, Inc. and to its known|unknown
third party partners/affiliates for <[11]-generated term for "safety">
will eventually find themselves the most <[11]-generated term for
"unsafe"> of all :-OOO.
As far as Nextdoor, Inc's presumed "trust" in and of those using its
services, I'd turn that around and suggest that Nextdoor, Inc.
increasingly strive to earn the valued "trust" in itself _from_ its
very Bread-and-Butter non-partner|non-affiliate users!
-Aaron, a former Nextdoor user that deleted the account _years_ before
this week's pseudo-"KIND" IPO [12] ;-|
======================================================
REFERENCES/EXCERPTS
======================================================
[01]http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2021-November/011815.html
[02]https://help.nextdoor.com/s/legal?language=en_US
[03]https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-member-agreement-2021/
[04]https://legal.nextdoor.com/us-privacy-policy-2021/
[05]https://help.nextdoor.com/s/article/community-guidelines?language=en_US
[06]https://help.nextdoor.com/s/article/Community-Guidelines-Updates-2021?language=en_US
[07]https://www.reddit.com/r/nextdoor/comments/l9guxv/nextdoor_invited_me_to_be_a_community_reviewer/
[08]https://help.nextdoor.com/s/article/How-to-deactivate-or-delete-your-account?language=en_US
[09]http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
[10]http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm
[11]https://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html
[12]https://aimgroup.com/2021/11/08/nextdoor-completes-ipo-on-nyse/
======================================================
aaronco36 at sdf.org
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