[conspire] I with I have $5000 for everyone who died of Wuhan-19

[paulz at ieee.org]

 We just have to accept that meanings of words can change with time, and you and I don't get a democratic vote.
How about hacker?   It used to be someone who just messed around with computers mostly for curiosity.  Then it became associated with criminal activities.  

I want to use the earlier meaning, but if I call myself a "hacker", I will get a lot of strange and fearful looks.
Anyway, one thing I like about this email group is that there are sometimes very diverse opinions.  Definitely not an echo chamber.

    On Friday, May 8, 2020, 11:40:41 AM PDT, Ruben Safir <ruben at mrbrklyn.com> wrote:  
 
 On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 10:44:01AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben at mrbrklyn.com):
> 
> > I use any words I want and Oriental is a very nice word, in English
> 
> Yes, the word does just mean eastern, and the onus against it is a
> basically symbolic one based on attributed associations, that are in
> turn based on some truly wretched world history, but using it in 2020
> will unavoidably result in most people associating you with bad company.
> Decide for yourself whether that's metaphorically the hill you wish to
> die on, sir.
> 

This gets to be very circular.  The problem is not the word, but human
politics, and I won't partake.

There is no problem with the term Oriental, or any of the cultures in
the Orient, Chinese, Indian, Thia, Cambodian, etc. 

Classically it refers to the Persians, Jews, Assyrians, and
Mesopotamians.

Any word you use, in this regard, inevitably gets polluted by the real 
cultural conflict that exists between cultures, and sometimes outright 
bigotry.  But no matter what word you use in the end to describe
the Chinese,(or the Indonesians etc)  it will inevitably be stained by 
the bigotries and legitimate cultural conflicts that exist.

I suggest the time has come to confront the hard work of human suffrage,
and cultural conflicts and stop abusing the language.

People are categorized as groups, tribes, nations, ethnicities, and for
good reason.  These categorise describe reason differences between
people and it affects how they respond to each other and the context
that they function under.  To ignore it is the ignore and disrespect
these differences and the individuals who live there lives in these
contexts.

Oriental is largely a geological term, just as when we say "The West".
It is not like using terms that are purposely derogatory, like Chink or
Swammy-Head, or for that matter, Nigger, or ever Jew.

Any term you chose, can in the end, and it will in the end, be used to
perpetrate bigotry and injustice.

On the docks they turned the term Tzadek, into an epitaph, often
intentionally trying to get under my skin.

Avoiding the term Oriental because it carries symbolism of colonialism, 
I don't even subscribe to that, and I am certainly not going to stop
using the term because someone is hyperventilating.  Aside from that, 
If anyone has a stain from colonial abuses, few empires beat the abuses 
of the Chinese, both before the previous age of European Colonialism 
and currently.

oye.  

The one thing about Nick, though.  Regardless of him being wrong or
right or in between, he is always thoughtful.  When I asked what he
meant, I was sincere.  I had no idea what he meant.  It didn't occur to
me for even a moment that the word "Oriental" could in any way be cause
for a fuss.

I am learning through, despite living side by side with Ethnically
Chinese for decades, that they are getting increasingly sensitive to
references and discussions of there culture, and even the Communist
Chinese government.  But I am not partaking in any of it.  It is an
agenda I do not agree with, and one shaped by that brutal dictatorship
with colonial aspirations. I'm not part of there PR department.

If this virus was from Jerusalem, it would be the Jerusalem SARS, just
like it was the Middle Easter SARS.  Chinese culture is not above
criticism, and the DRC is for sure not.  All of the countries in the
Orient are undergoing rapid change, and most have spotty human rights
records to state it kindly.

FWIW, I am glad I was born in the West...the raucous, rowdy, often
bigoted and violent West.  I do not want to live in a nation dominated
by any of the oriental cultures of the far east.  And I certainly don't
want to live in a world dominated by Communist China.  I firmly believe
and would die for the principles of Western Individual Freedom and
emancipation.  


> In a similar sense, as I've mentioned on the telephone, I avoid the term
> 'atheist' in relation for myself, preferring 'non-theist' or 'apathist'
> (as in, I really don't care about the issue) or 'agnostic', or
> 'Frisbeetarian'[1], primarily so I won't be lumped in with a bunch of
> notorious buttheads who long ago grabbed onto the former term.
> 
> Some very nice words become problematic solely because of associations
> they have gained.  You can call that unfair and waste time and energy
> fighting against it, but it's the hand we're dealt.
> 
> 
> [1] Explained by /usr/games/fortune as the doctrine that, when you die,
> your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> conspire at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire

-- 
So many immigrant groups have swept through our town
that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological
proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998
http://www.mrbrklyn.com 

DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002
http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive 
http://www.coinhangout.com - coins!
http://www.brooklyn-living.com 

Being so tracked is for FARM ANIMALS and extermination camps, 
but incompatible with living as a free human being. -RI Safir 2013


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