[conspire] "The Tragedy of systemd" ... & livingcomputers.org Living Computers Museum+Labs

[Texx]

2 observations...

First, for someone who didnt have time to comment on it, you put quite a
bit of time into it.

Second, didnt someone tell me this was a LOW traffic list ?

On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 1:13 AM Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> I wrote:
>
> > Well, not a dissection, but a few comments:
>
> _And_ the inevitable follow-up, after some guy had decided to argue for
> reasons unclear (possibly a spinal reflex):
>
>
> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 20:38:47 -0800
> To: tech at golug.org
> From: Rick Moen via Tech <tech at golug.org>
> Subject: Re: [GoLugTech] Look what I found - "The Tragedy of systemd!"
>
> Quoting David Krauser via Tech (tech at golug.org):
>
> > I didn't read his talk as propaganda.
>
> Well, to reiterate what I already made a point of stressing a couple of
> times, neither did I.  (To repeat:)  What I said was that if one _did_
> set out to create a propaganda fluff piece, it would share many notable
> features.
>
> > His omissions could simply be explained by the fact that this was a
> > short talk....
>
> Um, 47 minutes?  ;->
>
> That's a standard talk length for linux.conf.au, if memory serves --
> basically, a hour slot with some time for questions and a few minutes
> between panels.  IMO, the nature and extent of omissions is pretty
> notable, though I certainly was _not, repeat not_ calling them
> nefarious, just notable.
>
> He had absolutely no obligation to give any broader talk, of course.
> For example, he had no obligation to mention that solutions to service
> management have been commonplace in Linux and the other *ixes for
> at least a decade or two.  At my recent employer, a large Internet
> content firm, we'd been using supervisord for that purpose for long ages,
> and every sysadmin who's been in that line of business is familiar with
> either that or monit or daemontools or any of several others.
>
> So, when we sysadmins see people like Mr. Rice give talks saying 'we
> need to solve the service management problem', we have to wonder where
> he's been hiding while we _did that_.  For decades.
>
> Or, to put it another way, 'Hey, Mr. Rice, what exactly are supervisord
> and monit and daemontools, then?  Chopped liver?'  (I'm omitting
> relatively recent additions like runit and s6 and procer and freedt and
> daemontools-encore from that list, but they're not chopped liver,
> either.)
>
>
> > The merits of systemd itself seem somewhat irrelevant to his points.
>
> Um, actually, the use-cases where systemd shows strengths occupied about
> the later half of the talk.
>
> > What I got out of his talk:
>
> Yes, well said.  But:
>
> > I'd agree with those ideas.
>
> Those points seem fine if you are unaware of what is already in common
> use in exactly the areas where Mr. Rice claims we 'need to solve' this
> and that.  But frankly, I expected better of an old-school BSD guy.
> (I'm actually an old-school BSD guy, myself, having run 386BSD before
> moving to Linux.  Not that I'm any expert, but I've been around.)
>
>
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-- 

R "Texx" Woodworth
Sysadmin, E-Postmaster, IT Molewhacker
"Face down, 9 edge 1st, roadkill on the information superdata highway..."
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