[conspire] Frankensteining a citrus (was: Risks of automation)

[Fred Brockman]

Here's my experience with fruit trees: Grew up in 
Modesto, CA with a small (8 trees) stone fruit 
orchard. Parents later had home for 40 years with 
citrus (orange, lemon, grapefruit, lime). 
Currently live in rural south Florida with 
another small orchard of tropical fruit trees 
(sapodilla, canistel, carambola, etc.). BS degree 
in biology but have always worked in tech. Keep 
in mind this enthusiastic advice is given by one with a Y chromosome.

 > From fruit growers email: > > If you can find 
a citrus already grafted by a nursery at an 
acceptable > price, then buy it.  > > That said, 
I am hoping to graft some less common varieties 
that a > recommended by home growers.  If all 
goes to plan, around the time of > the next 
CABAL, I should have some buds of mandarins and 
pommelos.  If > you want an "experiment" leave 
the newly purchased calamansi in its > pot.  We 
can attempt grafting to the established root 
stock. If the > graft takes, you can look for a 
different spot for the calamansi, > maybe somewhere with more sun?

Sounds like a plan, but see caution below.

 > Yes, I'll be delighted to accept your kind 
offer.  If you feel like arriving before 4pm on 
Saturday, Sept. 8th, we can sod around doing some 
plant-hacking.  (I've never done grafting, so 
it'd be more like me as Igor to your Dr. Frankenstein.)

 > To catch up those not present yesterday:  One 
of the things we did was walk down and look 
closely at the stricken calamansi tree.  Paul 
pointed out the existing graft, which (sadly) is 
_above_ where the brand-new shoot is.  He says 
its common for citrus trees to have a high-up 
graft like that (5-6" off the ground), unlike 
what's generally the case. _So_, the shoot is 
root stock, not calamansi -- and we're back to my 
earlier conclusion that the calamansi itself is a 
goner.  Paul's advice at the time was to just dig 
up the rootstock and start over.  The above 
amounts to Paul's 'take 2' thoughts.

Caution: Trees can come back when you don't 
expect them. I would give your calamansi at least 
a full year of grace to see what happens. If 
that's too long start cutting back from the tips 
of the tree. If you suddenly go from dead wood to 
green wood stop immediately and make a sacrifice 
of thanksgiving. You already know to protect that 
nice sucker for the time being. It will keep the 
rootstock alive and shouldn't discourage the grafted part too much.

 > Cheryl's present opinion is that we should see 
what sort of citrus the rootstock would 
become.  This would probably take a few 
years.  IMO, this would be a poor bet.  We have 
absolutely no idea what of innumerable citrus 
species this is, and I have low confidence of it turning out to be desirable.

I would say the odds are just about nil of the 
fruit of the rootstock being desirable. 
Rootstocks are selected for graftability and 
disease resistance. Sometimes they are just grown 
from seeds leftover after consumption. 
Unfortunately most fruit varieties don't 
reproduce from seed true to variety or even 
consumability. [edit just before sending: 
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/grow-calamansi-21727.html 
recommends growing calamansi from seed. So your 
odds just went up. The rootstock could be 
something else but still could be viable fruiting calamansi.]

 > Another is what you say, reusing the robust 
rootstock for a bud-grafted scion, taken from 
either the calamansi tree currently on sale at 
OSH in Redwood City or one of my existing citrus 
trees.  So, yay, mandarins and pomelos, then.

So buy a calamansi tree and plant it, let it grow 
a year or two, graft some prunings onto the old rootstock?

 > I'm undecided about whether to buy that new 
calamansi tree, but I'll do a site survey before deciding.

First thought with you living on the SF peninsula 
was yes to moving rootstock to southern exposure. 
Second thought was global warming. Noted a tomato 
I planted in Modesto last year got through the 
winter in decent shape. When I was a kid all 
tomatoes were as dead as doornails by 
Thanksgiving. It's been a couple of years since 
I've seen frost here in FL. If the calamansi has 
been happy up to now with its location I'd leave 
it there. If you get a freeze forecast toss a 
sheet (or 2 or 3 sheets clothes-pinned together) 
over it and put some incandescent bulbs under it. 
I've entertained neighbors for decades by putting 
out the Christmas tree lights out on a freeze 
warning (usually after Christmas) through January or so.

Rootstocks, especially established older ones, 
are not real crazy about moving. If it gets 
decent sun where it's at I'd advise leaving it 
there. Save your site survey for your new additional plantings.

Good luck and have fun,
Fred

[Just saw your latest email. It's getting late 
here. Will respond try to respond tomorrow.]

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At 05:17 PM 8/26/2018, Rick Moen wrote:
>Quoting Paul Zander (paulz at ieee.org): > From 
>fruit growers email: > > If you can find a 
>citrus already grafted by a nursery at an 
>acceptable > price, then buy it.  > > That 
>said, I am hoping to graft some less common 
>varieties that a > recommended by home 
>growers.  If all goes to plan, around the time 
>of > the next CABAL, I should have some buds of 
>mandarins and pommelos.  If > you want an 
>"experiment" leave the newly purchased calamansi 
>in its > pot.  We can attempt grafting to the 
>established root stock. If the > graft takes, 
>you can look for a different spot for the 
>calamansi, > maybe somewhere with more sun? Yes, 
>I'll be delighted to accept your kind offer.  If 
>you feel like arriving before 4pm on Saturday, 
>Sept. 8th, we can sod around doing some 
>plant-hacking.  (I've never done grafting, so 
>it'd be more like me as Igor to your Dr. 
>Frankenstein.) To catch up those not present 
>yesterday:  One of the things we did was walk 
>down and look closely at the stricken calamansi 
>tree.  Paul pointed out the existing graft, 
>which (sadly) is _above_ where the brand-new 
>shoot is.  He says its common for citrus trees 
>to have a high-up graft like that (5-6" off the 
>ground), unlike what's generally the case. _So_, 
>the shoot is root stock, not calamansi -- and 
>we're back to my earlier conclusion that the 
>calamansi itself is a goner.  Paul's advice at 
>the time was to just dig up the rootstock and 
>start over.  The above amounts to Paul's 'take 
>2' thoughts. Cheryl's present opinion is that we 
>should see what sort of citrus the rootstock 
>would become.  This would probably take a few 
>years.  IMO, this would be a poor bet.  We have 
>absolutely no idea what of innumerable citrus 
>species this is, and I have low confidence of it 
>turning out to be desirable. Another is what you 
>say, reusing the robust rootstock for a 
>bud-grafted scion, taken from either the 
>calamansi tree currently on sale at OSH in 
>Redwood City or one of my existing citrus 
>trees.  So, yay, mandarins and pomelos, then. 
>I'm undecided about whether to buy that new 
>calamansi tree, but I'll do a site survey before 
>deciding. 
>_______________________________________________ 
>conspire mailing list conspire at linuxmafia.com 
>http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire