[conspire] sous vide question.

[Alex Kleider]

On 2017-10-24 22:15, Ross Bernheim wrote:
> Paul,
> 
> First, food safety. Normally you need to cook things hot enough to
> sterilize them for safety. Thus the hamburger should be cooked to well
> done to kill all the bacteria inside caused by grinding the meat.

I don't believe that "grinding the meat" by itself ever "caused" 
bacteria.

As an aside:
While traveling on Vancouver Island not long ago, I complained that my 
hamburger was over done and was told that there they have a law against 
serving ground meat that isn't well cooked (enough to kill bacteria, as 
you say.)  I believe the way the law addresses this problem locally is 
enforcing basic hygiene: clean kitchens and all the signs you see in 
restrooms reminding employees to wash their hands.

Different strokes for different folks.


> Chicken also to 165F.
> 
> Not so for sous vide. With sous vide you can cook safely to lower
> temperatures because you are going to hold them there for a longer
> period. Long enough to cook the bacteria to death. In other words you
> are Pasteurizing the food for safety.
> 
> The minimum safe cooking time is determined by the temperature, the
> thickness of the food and the thermal transfer rate. For most foods
> you can easily exceed the minimum time without worrying about
> overcooking since you are cooking at the temperature of the doneness
> you want. With conventional cooking you are using a higher temperature
> and using timing to not overcook, but you will have a temperature
> gradient through the food.
> 
> I routinely cook most portions to 58C (136F) and even a bit lower for
> rare hamburgers that are still safe. Dark meat from chicken and turkey
> do need a higher temperature though.
> 
> Sous vide does require very precise temperature control to about
> 1degree F. This precise control lets you do many interesting and tasty
> things. Perfectly rare (or whatever doneness you prefer) steaks which
> you can then pat dry and sear. If you’ve seen those pictures of
> perfectly pink steaks with a narrow sear on the outside, that is how
> it was done.
> 
> If you want to do 2 and a half inch thick pork chops, sous vide can do
> them spectacularly! Done just right all the way through and juicy.
> Thick cuts like that cannot be done nearly as well any other way.
> (Best pork chops I’ve ever had in my life!)
> 
> The precise temperature control lets you do some amazing things with
> vegetables. The starches cook at 80C but the cellulose in the cell
> walls don’t begin to break down until 85C. Fully cooked sweet carrots
> that are still crunchy anyone?
> 
> Sous vide equipment ranges from home made jerry rigged to commercial
> units. In the last couple of years there have been a number of less
> expensive circulators available for around $200 or less. These have an
> immersion heater, PID temperature controller and circulating
> propellor. They vary in how big a container of water they can deal
> with, how quickly they can heat the water, precision of the
> temperature control, mounting and ease of setting and using. Read the
> reviews.
> 
> The other commercial units are the sous vide ovens like the sous vide
> supreme that I have.
> 
> Jerry rigged units vary all over the place and a search on-line will
> turn up how to’s.
> 
> When using a circulator, the container makes a difference. While you
> can use a large metal pot, they lose more heat and that means the
> limits of the circulator will be more apparent. Plastic containers
> reduce heat loss to the air, but don’t forget to cover the top to
> prevent heat loss and reduce evaporation.
> 
> Ross
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Paul Zander <paulz at ieee.org> wrote:
>> 
>> This is primarily directed to Ross, but might be of wider interest.
>> 
>> The benefits of sous vide have been will demonstrated. I have been 
>> thinking I should give it a try, but it is not my highest priority.
>> 
>> My wife was cleaning out the kitchen cabinets, found a crock pot, and 
>> was about to take it to Good Will.  I said to wait.  It would appear 
>> that a change in the temperature control would convert it to sous 
>> vide.
>> 
>> 
>> Is this a reasonable way to get a sous vide apparatus?
>> 
>> The answer can be boolean. I fully expect that there will be the 
>> opportunity to discuss the various circuits at a future CABAL.  I just 
>> want to avoid having to go to thrift stores to buy someone else's 
>> crock pot.
>> 
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> 
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