[conspire] (forw) Testing New Keyboard

[Scott DuBois]

On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 10:27:48AM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Scott DuBois (rhcom.linux at gmail.com):
> 
> > I think sometimes people are simply afraid to labeled as giving either "stupid"
> > answers or asking "stupid" questions.
> 
> They ought to worry a great deal more about coming across as arrogant
> and ungrateful.

Perhaps. It all really comes down to the individual and their comfort level in
the forum. I want to believe that everyone is grateful for whatever response
they may receive. It's not like they're "paying" for the service or advice. We
should all be grateful that our forums exist anyway as a source to turn to;
should we not?

I mean, a lot of people turn to forums like Stack Overflow or Superuser these
days rather than turn to their local LUG mailing list. I prefer my local groups
as it sustains a closeness with those people that I prefer to interact with.
It's a smaller pool of minds to pick, but I feel more confident in the responses
because I _know_ these people and they _know_ me hence I can trust their
opinions to be in my full best interest; there is history there that we know
about and can buid trust on. Many people don't care about that.

> I give generously of my time, and optimistically hope that people will
> value my time at its usage value rather than at their acquisition cost
> (of zero).  I am frequently disappointed.

I believe the long term list contributors understand. New people probably don't
and come in with the same level of service expectations as some of the afore
mentioned forums. Of course we can only speculate what others are thinking and
wish they would behave in a certain manner we deem appropriate; I'm often
disappointed too but I try to let it go.

You've been doing mailing lists for so long and are so good at it that it's hard
for anyone else to even come close to comparing to your skills. However, when
was the last time you tried a LinkedIN forum, Stack Overflow, or even Linux.com
forums? A forum where you "don't" know the person who directly controls the
forum? At that, use your "real" identity when you do so random people can follow
up on you. It's awkward, often frustrating, and the results one gets aren't
always that great. If you have participated at that level in some of those other
forums it's much easier to understand why many of us turn to your mailing list
or other such mailing lists for help and advice.

> There's an easy and obvious alternative I can use:  I can decide there
> are too many people acting in a manner indistinguishable from arrogant
> and ungrateful, and do only well-paid work and not help the community
> any more.

You could, absolutely. This mailing list is in _your_ direct control, you can do
with it whatever you like. You can turn it off, let it run, moderate it
strictly, or let it run organicly. Ultimately though, I believe most people
would hope that it continues but that is solely based on you unless you choose
to turn it over to someone else to which _they_ may kill it; we would have no
way of knowing. Volunteer work unfortunately often comes with little
appreciation even though many of us are always asking for more volunteers.

> > We could either ask them if they are comfortable with our instructions or
> > require further clarification or we can belittle them and chastize
> > them for asking questions incorrectly while being considered too
> > "stupid" to utilize a technology forum properly.
> 
> Calling people 'stupid' is your invention in this discussion, and
> suggests to me that you paid zero attention to what I actually said.
> Once again, this is discouraging, as it suggests I was wasting my time
> -- at least as concerning (specifically) you as a reader.  It may be,
> however, that my point was clear to everyone else.

You're right, it was the best descriptor I could muster at the time. I'm sorry
you feel that people (I) often do not pay attention to what you write when in truth
I believe most hang on to every word because they respect your time and
experience in the field. Some may argue this fact but I'm not one of them
personally. The irony I find is that you and I only seem to have these
disagreements on the mailing list. When we are in each others company, the mood
seems significantly different; at least that is my general consensus.

Of all the contributors to this list, I respect your opinion the most and look
forward to your responses typically with a very high regard. I don't say this
about _everyone_ I meet in the Linux community and it often saddens me when you
feel differently or profess I do not. Anyone is more than welcome to research
for themselves where I prefer to subject myself and my queries as well as
participate based on the level of knowledge and accuracy of the forum moderators
and contributors. I much prefer a close knit "family" style forum to a massively
open "free for all". 

> Getting back briefly to Robert:  Upon review, I notice that -- at the
> time I forwarded to this mailing list his initial query about the old
> vs. new keyboards a month ago -- his (very long) account actually _did_
> include everything necessary to solve his problem.  Specifically, he
> said:
> 
>   Old Keyboard
>       Keytronic  M/N KT800MSE-C  S/N C014801544
>       In service more than 10 years.
>       Some keys do not always work.
> 
>   New Keyboard
>       Logitech k120
>       Purchased at Fry's, Palo Alto, 08May2015
>       Fry's service department has tested it: works OK there.
> 
> The above was buried in several screens full of material, but it _was_
> there.  My point is that if any of us had bothered to Web search on
> 'Keytronic KT800MSE-C' and 'Logitech k120', we would have immediately
> seen that the former was a PS/2 keyboard, and the latter a USB one.
> 
> As I said, Robert is an impressively painstaking person, so additional
> points to him for providing exactly the detail that should have lead to
> the solution directly -- in his very first inquiry about the problem.

I did look but not that in depth. About half way through his description I was
really confused and rather than work on trying to decipher the necessary
information for me to make an initial assessment, or barrage with questions, I
left it for someone else more proficient in deciphering such lengthy questions.
Perhaps in the future I will respond as such that I read and couldn't make heads
or tails of what he was asking other than the old one works and the new one
doesn't except on a different OS.

Of course, my "personal" situation has me at a significantly reduced mental and
emotional capacity to deal with such things so I feel little guilt or shame in
admitting my lackadaisical enthusiasm. However, I do apaologize none the less.

In conclusion, my personal opinion is that you did an amazingly fine job in
helping Robert overcome his obstacle. There were not a lot of responses in the
threads from multiple sources that provided substantial guidance that I would
have considerd useful other than from yourself. Some comments I felt were
inappropriate but I always expect that to some degree. If anything, I was able
to read the posting and learn from them whether I participated in the discussion
or not. Most provide valuable lessons that I like to reflect on when possible.
-- 
Scott DuBois       "The true sign of intelligence is...
BSIT/SE	                 not knowledge but imagination"
EFF ID: 1731778                             -- Einstein


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