[conspire] No more GNU HP Minis

Mon Feb 15 05:58:44 PST 2010

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 08:52:39PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Ruben Safir (ruben at mrbrklyn.com):
> 
> > There was a discount for the non-MS HP Minis on the website...when they
> > were available.
> 
> And the models' details might have even been comparable -- but quite
> often (with such manufacturers) there are differences in bundled
> hardware, amount of RAM, size of HD/flash, etc., making the discount
> illusory.
> 

the exact same model was less for GNU.  They charged extra if you wanted
MS.

> > And yes - I know about the OEM deals in detail...worked on the topic ad
> > nauseam with the Windows Refund Web site and movement..
> 
> (You may recall that Nick, Don, and I basically _ran_ Windows Refund
> Day -- with a lot of help on the day from people in various locations
> such as Deirdre in Orange County -- and, when you read things on the Web
> site, odds are it was either Nick or I who wrote it.)
> 
> Anyway, if you understand the co-op marketing arrangement between
> Microsoft and OEMs, it becomes a bit odd that you'd post outbursts like

That is not an outburst.  

Am I a child and I have to raise my hand you speak?  I politely said
something and as a fact I hadn't paid for a MS tax for about a decade.

Say what you want about the insane OEM agreements that MS has, I brought
blank Micrtel boxes from Walmart, that if I brought the same exact box
with a MS OS, it was 50 dollars more, when it was available, which it
wasn't always.  Other than that, I built or had the machines custome
built, at least the servers.

> "For the first time in a decade I just shelled out a MS tax for a
> computer and it really ticks me off. Also, after 2 years of things
> really looking up on the consumer end for GNU systems, we're back to
> square one, or so it seems."
>

See - on outburst.  Not even an explanation point.

> That seems utterly clueless about the nature of Microsoft Marketing's
> subsidy of OEM models with MS-Windows-with-other-code preloads, which
> allows the manufacturer to hit price point in a way otherwise not
> possible with the way the market it structured (and has been for a
> decade-plus).  Why would you think "things [are] really looking up" 
> when none of the fundamentals have changed?
> 
> I really wonder if you actually understand how that works.  I covered it
> briefly in my 2001 interview by Sam Varghese, though I'm sure there are
> better explanations elsewhere:
> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511127721.html  ("Are you
> involved in the forthcoming refund day (January 23)?")
> 
> I used to hear all of that same sort of endless kvetching from people
> before, during, and after the Windows Refund Day stuff -- and they kept
> acting surprised about various aspects of forced preloads.  I kept
> asking in return, _why_ were they surprised -- and explaining, yet again,
> the market fundamentals.
> 
> 

Essentially, my involvement revolved around the Court cases Adam Kosmin
brought which I worked in the background of...which was miserably
unsucessful.  And frankly, I did it as a favor because Adam was an
active member of NYLXS and felt the need to support our members.  If
they need to, and as they need to, MS will PAY OEMs to distribute their
OS's.  And they have other strings, such as their teeth in the Board of
Ed, citywdie contracts per machine, windows or not, mandatary ciriculim
requirments on the HS and University level, and with the California and
Texas scholastic publishers which are depeneded upon by the NYS Regents
for Education Requirments..etc etc etc.

So I just don't buy a computer with windows, and I felt that Adam should
do the same.

http://www.windowsrefund.info/

> > Nevertheless, I have a laptop without eth0,wifi or sound at the moment
> > and need solutions.  Everything I saw with the HP Minis had everything
> > working, even with alien OSes on it like Ubuntu and Debian.
> 
> Consider:  If you had one of those preloads, you'd have no easy way of
> knowning how it was done, and so you would find yourself in the lurch
> the first time _you_ needed to install your system.  And you _want_ that
> situation?
> 
> Anyway, _you_ know how to research hardware support for particular
> models' components, right?  Since you didn't bother to say what _model_
> of HP Mini you're talking about, it's not even yet possible for me to do
> it for you, even if I had boundless time for the task.
> 
> Also:  Use lspci and lsusb to find out what chipsets you're talking
> about, as your first step.
> 
> > How do I create an install flash drive.
> 
> Should I assume you mean Ubuntu?  Again, you didn't say.
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
>

Now you might be wondering, why is he digging through old mail on this
thread.  We;ll frankly I was looking for my stated goal:  

o  Your advocacy activity completely fails to advance your announced
goal (getting more Linux preloads on new computers), completely aside from
the separate question of whether the goal is a desirable one.

We'll you know, I didn't do any advocacy here.  I posted:

" I finnaly got a few bucks together to get my daughter a computer and LO
AND BEHOLD, HP Mini's no longer come with Linux pre-installed.

I'm just so sick of this...

Maybe someone can run up there and tell them they are IDIOTS."

I just asumed that someone on this list had contacts with HP.  I even
asumed that HP's distribution involved some contact from the community
out there.  If I was wrong, so then wrap me in a flag and burn me.

And please, don't tell me again that HP is a huge company.  I have some
idea what a huge company looks like.  I know enough about them to know I
didn't want to leave a message on the "Presidents Hotline" like they
said I could do.  But a word from an internal engineer, marketing VP
etc, might have a better chance of registering my disatisfaction.

Your the one who generalized the discussion when you said you opose any
OEM instalations.

So, a discussion of the specific passed into the general, and then you
fall had it fall back to the specific.  That is not logical.  

Yes - I advocate the use of Free Software and think OEMs should be
encouraged to sell prelaoded GNU systems [GENERAL]

No - I did not "advocate" the loading of GNU on HP Mini's on this "lug
mailing list".  I did post that I'd like to know if someone here was in their 
food chain who could register my displeasure with their decision.
[SPECIFIC]

Yes - I might advocate, advocate meaning to try to organize some
community effort to get HP to sell preinstalled GNU minis again in the
future, of which this might be a preliminary conversation of evaluating
how effective that could be.[SPECIFIC]

and YES - I do beleive that when others use Free Software on a broad level
that it will benifit you, (and me and everyone else) [GENERAL]

Ruben

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You must be a stupid engineer then, because politcs and technology have been attached at the hip since the 1st dynasty in Ancient Egypt.  I guess you missed that one."

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