[conspire] No more GNU HP Minis

[Ruben Safir]

Ruben Safir wrote:
> Carl Myers wrote:
>> I think the disconnect here is there are two separate usecases.
>>
>> 1. People who use a computer as a "dumb tool" for web browsing, email,
>> productivity, and the occasional fancy thing like "burn CDs" or
>> "download/listen to music".
>>
>> 2. People who USE a computer to accomplish anything they want.  
>> People who read
>> man pages, write scripts and/or code, search out programs to 
>> accomplish tasks,
>> possibly programs they've never used before, and if they can't find 
>> one, they
>> write or modify an existing one.
>>
>> What Rick is saying (I think, correct me if I am wrong - and I think 
>> I agree) is
>> that it is not his goal to have every person with usecase #1 running 
>> GNU/Linux.
>> His goal (again, I am interpreting, so apologies if I misunderstand) 
>> is to help
>> people with usecase #2 discover that GNU/Linux is a great way to 
>> solve their
>> problem and share their work with others.  Stand on the shoulders of 
>> giants and
>> benefit everyone.  People in usecase #2 care about where software 
>> comes from and
>> they care about the control they can exercise over it - "will I be 
>> able to
>> modify this program in the future?" is a question they might ask.
>>
>>   
>
> Ask yourself this:  How many GNU/Linux users have actually contributed 
> code to any significant programs in the GNU world?  Less than 1% might 
> be the right answer.
>
>
>> People in usecase #1 will never ask that question.  People in usecase 
>> #1 want it
>> to "just work".  Now it sounds to me like Rubin is a user in usecase 
>> #2, but for
>> this particular machine, he has decided he wants usecase #1 simplicity.
>>
>> Additionally, he feels like socially everyone in usecase #1 should 
>> also be using
>> GNU/Linux for some reason.  
>
> For ever specific and critical reasons, that is for the human race 
> which I outlines and have written about all across the internet and 
> the paper world.
>
> I have a question:  See this video
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com/mp3.1/Safir3.mov
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com/mp3.1/Safir1.mov
> http://www.mrbrklyn.com/mp3.1/safir2.mov
>
> Are these in users group 1 or 2?
>
>
>
>> Probably because later, when he wishes his purchase
>> was actually for usecase 2, he will be able to have his cake and eat 
>> it too.
>>
>> I agree in that I too wish GNU/Linux solved usecase #1 better than 
>> proprietary
>> alternatives, and frankly, it is closer today than it ever was (in 
>> terms of
>> solving the use case, not in terms of availability, which is what 
>> started this
>> whole discussion).  I hope that some day GNU/Linux can and does solve 
>> usecase
>> #1.  I hope that companies like microsoft will stop expending 
>> precious resources
>> trying to make a non-free operating system when a perfectly good free 
>> one
>> exists, and maybe they can get a clue and a better business model and 
>> solve new
>> problems instead of finding new and terrible ways to fail to solve 
>> old ones
>> which GNU/Linux has already solved better.
>>
>> But I don't think it is my job to make that happen.  I am a 
>> minority.  I am one
>> of you.  I won't use a preinstalled OS because nobody will preinstall 
>> an OS the
>> way I want it (plus the very good reasons Rick already listed).  All 
>> I can do is
>> ensure I don't pay any money in support of operating systems I won't 
>> use.  I can
>> educate users in usecase 1 and try to turn them into users in usecase 
>> 2, but
>> some people will never be usecase 2 material.  Trying to force users 
>> in usecase
>> 1 to use GNU/Linux before there is a GNU/Linux distro ready that 
>> really solves
>> that usecase is only going to make them think badly of it.  
>
>
> GNU/Linux has been ready for general public usage since RH 5 and SuSE 
> 5.  There is nothing it doesn't you 


eh - there  is nothing it doesn't do...

I might learn English one day before I die...



> and the obstruction of it from being THE general use desktop system 
> for the public has been purposeful disruption, and stupidity on part 
> of the community, which includes IBM, Novell, Bruce Perens and RMS.  I 
> must have written an encyclopedia already on the troubles with 
> Vertical Application building , business modeling and DRM politics 
> which has prevent non-slaveware, free software, from broad adoption.
>
> And it seems if I ever contribute anything important to the Free 
> Software community it will be to convince people that EVERYONE needs a 
> Free Operating System to work on...if they want to live in freedom.
>
>> I would guess that
>> is why no company has *really* tried to compete in that market.  Dell 
>> computers
>> with preinstalled linux - system76 machines, and any other machine with
>> pre-installed linux (except some andriod phones and the occasional 
>> netbook
>> running some crazy simplified linux-based GUI) are all geared towards 
>> usecase 2.
>>
>> I guess what I am saying is, I understand where you are coming from 
>> now Rubin,
>> but I'm not sure how constructive it is for "the cause".  You guys 
>> have been at
>> this way longer than me though, so please feel free to enlighten me =)
>>
>>   
> http://www.nylxs.com/events/biggertent.txt
>
> http://www.nylxs.com/pathfromhere.html
>
>
>
>
> Reuvain
>
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