[conspire] Fwd: Re: [sf-lug] Looking for a Senior MySQL administrator in San Francisco

[jim stockford]

    I'm taking your persistence as care and invitation to get
into it.
    Comparing with the left-handed Esperanto, it seems
to me that we similarly don't get significant numbers of
job posters.
    I don't mind the condition of uncertainty, not that I like it,
I don't care one way or the other. Let them wonder and
post or not as they see fit.
    Yes, I like your so doing! Thank you, really (even if
over-the-top and wildly enthusiastic, it's genuine thanks).
    Sorry for your vexed feeling, I do try to get it.
    That the group is, in my scriber's mind, essentially
silent means to me (the default group scribe) that there
is no policy, not really, and therefore anything written
would be in explicit expression of something that doesn't
really exist. Sorry to be stubborn, and I invite response,
as I actually do trust your experience and point of view
and do want to get it.
    One man's noise.... Gets to experience: Adrien's
experience is well known to you, but not to me, so his
rants present a view of the industry (which I care about)
that give me insight. Yesterday I was at the house of a
guy who has no CLI experience and tho't of me as a
guru (but I have little GUI experience and can learn a
lot from him--he's the GUI guru). I.e. we're all different.
Asheesh revealed his personality in the discussion
following Adrien's somewhat severe rant--not technical,
but valuable to me.

per your last paragraph:
    (sigh) All my life I've had a tough time studying, turns
out I got actual problems.
    I badly want to learn new things but hate the pain of
the road.
    Also I have a newbie's ignorance of what to do with
new things--puts a crimp into wanting to learn new
things--what to do with them? Is ADD Californian?
Might be.
    That said, I promote and teach, I learn and advance,
as do many of the other members, each in their own
ways. I value curiosity, learning, etc.
    I have to revisit fundamentals as I keep forgetting them,
and yes, I flee to them for their comfort, too.
    I do believe in the mission of documentation, as you'll
soon see, per my last promise. (On that note, thanks
for the linuxmafia knowledge base.)
    I think your last paragraph is inaccurate in the main.
How to create a path for growing into new possibilities?
How to recognize old prejudices (thank you to all who
point them out!)? Partly there's the fact of new people
joining not just the group but the greater Linux world.
Partly there's the fact that people have different interests,
goals, modes--as the CLI-less guy and I (the GUI-less
guy) each look like a beginner to the other, and are.
    So what are these old prejudices? See any? Name
them and earn more wildly enthusiastic thanks. Oh,
along with wiring expertise, complete with electrician's
tool belt, good at mutually convenient times at your
house.



On Jul 12, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>>     come on, Rick. Sure I've read, re-read, and payed
>> attention to your suggestions, which I take seriously.
>> Of course we have a default policy--anything goes.
>
> I think you're still missing something, despite it having been 
> mentioned
> a few times.  Let me explain it a different way.
>
> People don't put statements on Mailman listinfo pages saying
> "postings from left-handed Esperanto teachers are welcome", because
> you don't get significant numbers of southpaw Esperantists going around
> saying "I'm not sure this posting is appropriate, but...."  However,
> for reasons amply covered elsewhere, recruiters and others posting
> job listings legitimately wonder whether such are welcome on each LUG
> discussion forum.
>
> So, in context, you and the other non-leader leader (who possess the
> listinfo password) have decided you like that condition of uncertainty
> and (by default) want it to persist.
>
> I'm not complaining; as noted, the group arrives at policies and
> practices that suit it.  I'm just noting the fact, and the 
> consequences.
> You don't seem to like my doing so, and keep going out of your way to
> miss my points:  I'm not entirely clear why.
>
> It's a little vexing (but only a little), because I go to some pains to
> be clear in what I say.
>
>> If the group coalesces on some point of view, the group will have
>> determined a policy.
>
> As already has been painstakingly pointed out numerous times, the group
> _has_ determined a policy -- by default.  My point is that you have
> declined to document that policy where it might do some good, and to
> point out the (minor) disadvantages.
>
>> So far a few people have expressed a wish to proscribe against and a
>> few people have expressed a wish to allow and most of the membership
>> is silent with respect to job postings (I like 'em, and I like the
>> rants of the objectors, which I find most educational).
>
> Since you mention it, I personally find both to be mostly noise, and to
> distract from the legitimate purposes of a LUG.  But that's a 
> digression
> from the main point, which you keep going _way_ out of your way to
> ignore:
>
>> As we have not clearly weighed in one way or another, anything goes.
>
> ...which you decline to document on your listinfo page, preferring that
> each new jobs poster be obliged to figure it out for him or herself.
>
> Thus my point.
>
> In my personal view, I can't help seeing this as being in line with the
> tirekicker mentality that pervades much of SF-LUG's membership, Jim:
> not really wanting anything new or complex, not really believing in
> documentation or learning and advancing (with the bright exception of
> your RHCE study group), always revisiting fundamentals over and over,
> not wanting to think about old prejudices but insisting on feeling good
> and virtuous about them.  On the other hand, it's very California and
> probably has broad appeal.
>
>
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