From owner-svlug@svlug.svlug.org
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To: svlug@svlug.org
Subject: [svlug] "Runz"
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From: Nathan Myers ncm@cantrip.org
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I wrote the following for for the next Refund Newsletter.
They
didn't print it, I imagine because Don wanted to stay focused
or something, so you get to read (two amended versions of) it
here
instead.
FWIW. Take your pick. I think the camera analogy is a bit
closer, but that "Runz(tm)" thing gives me the grins whenever
I think about it. Forward your favorite to your favorite
reporter.
Nathan Myers
ncm@cantrip.org
--------------------
Imagine for a moment that any car you can buy from a regular
dealer
comes "preloaded" with a special filter that only allows you to
use
the MicroCough-brand fuel, "Runz(tm)". The purchase contract
says
if you are not willing to use the filter with "Runz(tm)", you
should
contact your dealer for instructions on how to return the filter
for
a refund. Since this filter must be replaced periodically at a
cost
of around $100, you know how much you should get back.
Although MicroCough fueling stations are everywhere, Runz(tm)
is
expensive and, worse, Runz(tm) frequently causes your car to
stall in
traffic. Now, suppose you have your own supply of fuel which
_never_
causes a stall. You ask your dealer for a refund, to no avail.
It's
so hard to get them to pay that some people advise you just to
take
the filter off and throw it away, despite the promise in the
contract.
Since it is really MicroCough who placed the refund promise in
the
contract, doesn't it make sense to approach MicroCough directly
to
exercise your clearly-specified legal right to a full refund?
--------------------
Imagine for a moment that any camera you can buy from a
regular
dealer comes "preloaded" with a special winder that only works
with
the MicroPhots-brand film, "Snaps(tm)". The purchase contract
says
if you are not willing to use the winder with "Snaps(tm)" film,
you
should contact the camera maker for instructions on how to return
the
winder for a refund. Since this winder must be replaced
periodically
at a cost of around $100, you know how much you should get
back.
Although MicroPhots "Snaps(tm)" film is available everywhere,
Snaps(tm)
is expensive and, worse, is brittle so it tends to break while
it's
winding, spoiling your pictures. Now, suppose you have your own
supply
of film and can get a winder for it. You ask the camera company
for a
refund, to no avail. It's so hard to get them to pay that some
people
advise you just to take the winder off and throw it away, despite
the
promise in the contract. Since it is really MicroPhots who placed
the
refund promise in the contract, doesn't it make sense to
approach
MicroPhots directly to exercise your clearly-specified legal
right to
a full refund?
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From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Tue Feb 9 14:46:03 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:42:35 -0800
From: Seth David Schoen schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
To: cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: [matthew@ssc.com:
Re: Linux Journal]
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----- Forwarded message from Matthew Cunningham matthew@ssc.com -----
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:40:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Matthew Cunningham matthew@ssc.com
To: [Some Windows Refund people]
Subject: Re: Linux Journal
Good afternoon,
Wednesday we will be shipping out 200 copies of the February
issue to both
Rick Moen (San Francisco, CA) and Deirdre Saorise (Irvine, CA).
We will
also be including some Linux bumper stickers and such.
We will be using UPS, and all deliveries will arive Friday --
Please
confirm that someone will be there to sign for the package at
the
addresses you sent me.
Also, it is not too late to order some copies of Linux Journal
for
distribution at Refund Day activities. Anything planned for
Seattle/Redmond?
Thank you,
Matthew Cunningham
Marketing
Linux Journal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Matthew Cunningham, matthew@ssc.com P.O. Box 55549
Seattle, WA 98155
Marketing Ph: (206) 782-7733 ext. 112
Linux Journal Fx: (206) 782-7191
An SSC Publication www.linuxjournal.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- End forwarded message -----
--
Seth David Schoen / schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu
He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do."
And they
said, "Nay, but we will have a king over us, that we also may be
like all the
nations." (1 Sam 8) http://ishmael.geecs.org/~sigma/
http://www.loyalty.org/
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:12:50 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
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Subject: [dsvsqx@hotmail.com: ]
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----- Forwarded message from skydec dsvsqx@hotmail.com -----
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:58:58 -0500
From: "skydec" dsvsqx@hotmail.com
Reply-To: dsvsqx@hotmail.com
X-Mailer: PrimaSoft Handy Email
To: nick@zork.net
Hello Nick,
This is my contribution to zork.net/refund 's
effort/newsletter and
the upcoming Windows Refund Day on Feb. 15th.
daniel
My 2 bits on the EULA and Gateway:
This is my account regarding the purchase of a new notebook,
the
Gateway Fireant, at the local Gateway Country store, here in
Orlando,
Florida, February 9th 1999, about 12:30pm. Single user, single
system.
Alrighty, from what I gathered from the sales representative at
the
store, it is understood that the cost of the operating system, in
this
case Win98, is included in the total sale price of a system, in
this
case the Fireant notebook.
However, he did make it a point to say that the cost of the
operating system was at OEM price, and not at retail price. The
sales
representative did mention that the OEM cost for Win98, at least
what
Gateway is paying, is about $50, compared to the cost of a
retail
Win98 upgrade at about $90. Well, fair enough...
Now we get to the point of obtaining a system without a
Windows
operating system. According to the sales representative at the
Cow
store, here, it is Gateway's policy, also an agreement between
Gateway
and Microsoft, that the end user is expected to obtain a system,
with
Windows, no exceptions. Therefore, when my question on deducting
the
cost of Windows98 from the purchase price and the question on
the
licensing agreement between the end user and Microsoft and
Gateway
were, in so many words, struck down by the fact of this
agreement
between Microsoft and Gateway, and Gateway policy. Enough said,
so
much for system customization.
An interesting note to those who seek the EULA, if you happen to
be
at some showroom or a retail store where computers are running
Windows
(no surprises there), the EULA can be found in
"c:\windows\license.txt". Of course, you won't be purchasing the
demo
model that is currently running, right? Then again they are
usually
discounted... Of course it is always feasible to work it out with
a
reseller that is willing to waive the Microsoft Tax right at
the
start.
skydec
dsvsqx@hotmail.com
(it wasn't MS. before)
----- End forwarded message -----
--
* Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved
from
smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front
of
smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk
(obscurity)
From gbrock@email.sjsu.edu Tue Feb
9 18:15:16 1999
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1999 18:15:09 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 18:15:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Gene gbrock@email.sjsu.edu
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To: bofh@linuxmafia.com
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My friend and I are interested in tagging along. We are both
in the market for Linux desktops, but there is little choice out
there.
I don't want to pay for the stupid software when I'm not even
going to
use it. (MS)
Can you give us info on where to meet, and time/place, duration,
etc.
We are both students and wouldn't want to miss our complier
design
class...
Thanks,
Gene Brock
San Jose State U.
BTW...if Office is bundled with the machine, can we get a refund
for that
too?
From ddeckmyn@cmcorporate.com
Thu Feb 11 10:37:57 1999
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From: Dominique Deckmyn ddeckmyn@cmcorporate.com
Reply-To: "dominique_deckmyn@vnu.co.uk"
dominique_deckmyn@vnu.co.uk
To: "'bofh@linuxmafia.com'"
bofh@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Refund day
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:33:57 -0800
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Hello Rick,
I'd like to do a follow-up story on the Refund Day effort, for
VNU Newswire
(www.vnunet.com). Just generally get an idea about how the plans
are
progressing, and on what we can expect to see happen next Monday.
I'm
particularly interested in the Bay Area activities.
Could you give me a call sometime today, at 650-3060889?
Dominique Deckmyn
VNU Newswire
*** The VNU Newswire is at www.vnunet.com ***
---------------------------------------------------------
Dominique Deckmyn
US Editor, VNU Newswire
business e-mail: dominique_deckmyn@vnu.co.uk
personal e-mail: ddeckmyn@cmcorporate.com
Tel: +1-650-3060889
Fax:+1-650-3630187
Address:
VNU Business Publications Ltd.
611 Veterans Boulevard #206
Redwood City, CA 94063 - USA
UK address:
VNU Business Publications
32-34 Broadwick Street
London W1A 2HG - United Kingdom
---------------------------------------------------------
From db@MsCyberspace.com Thu Feb 11
09:04:15 1999
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Rick, I'm writing a short little item for Newsweek.com about
Windows
Refund Day. Who wrote the following, on your site?
The message is not "Windows sucks, I want my money
back." The message is "I choose not to accept this
license, and am therefore exercising my right to
return the product for a refund."
I'd like to attribute that to the person who wrote it and not
just your
site, if that's possible. So did you write it, or ???
Also, no directions or time is up yet for the march. Will that
info be
up soon? How the organinzing going? Any rough estimate of
turnout?
Thanks for a prompt response, if possible. Thanks for your
time in any
case.
cheers,
Deborah Branscum
contributing editor, Newsweek
510-652-3818
From owner-svlug@svlug.svlug.org
Thu Feb 11 00:50:43 1999
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From: Ian Kluft ikluft@cisco.com
Message-Id: 199902110821.AAA04804@tiber.cisco.com
Subject: [svlug] first weather outlook for WRD
To: svlug@svlug.org (Silicon
Valley Linux Users Group)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:21:32 -0800 (PST)
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The first NWS weather outlook for Northern and Central
California for
Monday (Windows Refund Day) is out. So far so good.
Apparently the "storm track" (jet stream) will not be coming
this far
south at that time, keeping the bad weather north of the Bay
Area. But
it's just a long-range outlook right now so keep watching it.
(I wonder if the NWS forecast modeling software could run on Beowulf. :-)
References:
NWS Northern and Central California 5-day outlook
http://www-atm.ucdavis.edu/~wxauto/fos/fpus/FPUS66.KMTR
NWS San Francisco and San Mateo County (Peninsula) 3-day
forecast
http://www-atm.ucdavis.edu/~wxauto/fos/fpus/zones/CAZ006
NWS Santa Clara County (South Bay/Silicon Valley) 3-day
forecast
http://www-atm.ucdavis.edu/~wxauto/fos/fpus/zones/CAZ008
--
Ian Kluft KO6YQ PP-ASEL Cisco Systems, Inc.
ikluft@cisco.com (work)
ikluft@thunder.sbay.org
(home) San Jose, CA
--
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From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Wed Feb 10 22:44:24 1999
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Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:40:35 -0800
From: Deirdre Saoirse deirdre@deirdre.net
Reply-To: deirdre@deirdre.net
To: cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: Fwd: Article on Windows Refund
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:39:22 -0800
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Did anyone contact him? I am going through my mail from last
week when I was
"behind" and found this. I did send a short reply, just wondered
if anyone else
had contact (or wanted it.
---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Subject: Article on Windows Refund
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 20:57:52 +0100
From: Denis Delbecq delbecq@lemonde.fr
Hello,
I prepare a paper on the Feb 15 "Windows Refund" event for the
weekly
high tech supplement of french daily Le Monde.
Could you precise what kind of events you prepare for this
day? I
couldn't find sites on the Feb action outside the US except
France and
Japan (I heard of similar site in The Netherlands). Do you have
such
contact?
Thanks for answering me,
regards,
Denis Delbecq
--------------------------
Denis Delbecq
Le Monde Interactif
21bis, rue Claude Bernard
75242 Paris Cedex 05. France
Tel: +33 142 17 38 87
Fax: +33 142 17 21 44
http://www.lemonde.fr
--
_Deirdre * http://disclaimer.deirdre.org
* http://www.deirdre.net
If "Microsoft" is the question, "No, thank you" is the
answer.
From deirdre@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Wed Feb 10 22:15:13 1999
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From: Deirdre Saoirse deirdre@deirdre.net
Reply-To: deirdre@deirdre.net
To: MikeMillen@aol.com,
nick@zork.net
Subject: Re: A (short) legal analysis of Microsoft's EULA
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:30:52 -0800
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Cc: dmarti@electriclichen.com,
schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu,
mattj@thenoodle.com,
jal@briar.net, rick@hugin.imat.com
References: fc8c7492.36c26334@aol.com
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Thanks for the article. I understand your position, however,
the consent decree
(found at http://law.tqn.com/library/blconsent.htm)
prohibits per-processor
licensing and instead allows only per-copy licensing (see
4D).
This brings up the obvious question of what happens AFTER the
OEM has refunded
Windows. Ultimately, per my reading, Microsoft must reimburse the
OEM.
Otherwise, they are defacto making it a per-processor license (in
the case of
single CPU systems anyway) rather than a per-copy license.
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, MikeMillen@aol.com wrote:
>Don Marti gave me the idea of preparing an article for
publication in the
>Windows Refund Day Newsletter. You can find it at http://millen.cc/
>
>If you want to publish it in your newsletter, you are free to
do so. Also, if
>you would like to see the analysis somehow expanded let me
know!
>
>- Mike
>Michael Millen
>Attorney at Law
>12 S. First St., St. 810
>San Jose, CA 95113
>(408) 998-3262
>(408) 971-4580 [fax]
>email: MikeMillen@aol.com
--
_Deirdre * http://disclaimer.deirdre.org
* http://www.deirdre.net
If "Microsoft" is the question, "No, thank you" is the
answer.
From MikeMillen@aol.com Wed Feb 10
21:27:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:57:24 EST
To: nick@zork.net
Cc: dmarti@electriclichen.com,
schoen@uclink4.berkeley.edu,
mattj@thenoodle.com,
deirdre@deirdre.net,
jal@briar.net,
rick@hugin.imat.com
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Hi Nick -
Don Marti gave me the idea of preparing an article for
publication in the
Windows Refund Day Newsletter. You can find it at http://millen.cc/
If you want to publish it in your newsletter, you are free to
do so. Also, if
you would like to see the analysis somehow expanded let me
know!
- Mike
Michael Millen
Attorney at Law
12 S. First St., St. 810
San Jose, CA 95113
(408) 998-3262
(408) 971-4580 [fax]
email: MikeMillen@aol.com
From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Wed Feb 10 20:07:15 1999
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Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:12:07 -0800
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:12:06 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
To: cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: [opie@fine-print.com: Re:
[refund-news] Issue Four (belated)]
Message-ID: 19990210201206.F30145@zork.net
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----- Forwarded message from "Matthew S. Warren" opie@fine-print.com -----
In-Reply-To: 19990208141550.A21486@zork.net
Organization: Mail Forwarding Department, Committee for Fine
Print
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:01:35 -0500
To: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
From: "Matthew S. Warren" opie@fine-print.com
Subject: Re: [refund-news] Issue Four (belated)
Hi.
At 02:15 PM -0800 02/08/1999, Nick Moffitt wrote:
>Manufactured Consent
>
> by Nick Moffitt
>
> Recently on Slashdot (http://slashdot.org), a purchaser of
Toshiba
> laptops reported that the wrapping on the delivered hardware
contained
> a seal, such that opening the wrapping equates to consenting
to the
> license.
>
> I've been following the recent discussion of refunds on
Microsoft
> software due to refusal of the EULA. Today I recieved a
shipment of
> Toshiba laptops and found there is a sticker saying that you
can't
> even take the computer out of the plastic bag it is in
without
> accepting the EULA. I don't remember that being on there 2
months
> ago, but maybe I just wasn't looking for it then. Seems like
I may
> be stuck with paying for software I never intend to use.
>
> See: http://slashdot.org/articles/99/01/28/097245.shtml
>
> This little eye-roller was the inspiration for this issue's
title
> quote from our mascot. Those of you receiving this in email
can view
> the image at http://zork.net/refund/issuefour.html
with any
> image-capable Web browser.
>
> We here at refund-news feel that this action interferes with
the
> spirit of the EULA as Microsoft intended it. The license is
designed
> so that if you do not wish to use the software, in the words
of
> Microsoft legal affair spokesman Adam Sohn, "there is a
recourse for
> that." If this story is to be believed, Toshiba is tying the
software
> directly to the hardware, which I'm sure was not Microsoft's
intent.
In addition, this is (literally!) a "contract of adhesion,"
and is almost
certainly not enforceable. You might want to look up some cases
(depending
on your state) so that you can have something to say back. It's
very
effective:
Microsoft flack: I'm sorry, you accepted the EULA when you
took
this laptop out of the box.
Windows Returner: No I didn't! Zane v. Gobbledygook, 1986!!
Microsoft flack: uuuuhhhh [calls security]
You get the idea. Good luck.
-MSW
--
Matthew S. Warren "Nothing happens automatically."
opie@fine-print.com +1
(500) for-opie (Mail for PGP)
----- End forwarded message -----
--
* Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved
from
smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front
of
smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk
(obscurity)
From dmarti@barley.electriclichen.com
Wed Feb 10 17:30:20 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:30:19 -0800
From: Don Marti dmarti@electriclichen.com
To: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
Cc: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Subject: Re: [off-list] (forw) Microsoft Demonstration - February
15th
Message-ID: 19990210173019.A6444@electriclichen.com
References: 19990210161327.P16727@hugin.imat.com
19990210162807.C26540@zork.net
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from Nickels Moffitt, King of the Low Rollers on Wed, Feb 10,
1999 at 04:28:07PM -0800
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On Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 04:28:07PM -0800, Nickels Moffitt, King of the Low Rollers wrote:
> Stop! It's a trick by Ian Kluft!
Tabinda mentioned to Ian that she will bring walkie-talkies
for parade
marshals to communicate. And Ian responds with a set of radio
discipline tips. Since you guys as members of headquarters
group
might be using the radio, here they are:
* Make sure squelch and volume are set correctly. Otherwise
you won't
hear calls that you should have. (To set it, turn the squelch
up
until you hear noise, set the volume to a comfortable/usable
level,
and turn the squelch back down just below the point that it cuts
out
the noise.
* Pause for a fraction of a second between pressing the push
to talk
button and beginning to speak. (Many people have a tendency to
begin
talking as they're pressing the switch, and cut themselves
off.
* When calling someone on the radio, the shorthand radio
etiquette is to say
1) who you're calling (i.e. first name)
2) who you are (i.e. first name)
3) briefly what you want
However, when responding to a call that was directed to you, just
answer.
* Unless you know the audio quality is very clear to everyone
receiving
you, use "affirmative" instead of "yes", "negative" instead of
"no".
* It is not necessary to say "over" unless you're on a noisy
frequency
where you can't otherwise tell that a transmission has ended.
Since
FRS uses FM, you won't need to do this.
* Since you're using FM radios, if two people transmit at the
same time,
the stronger/closer signal will "win" and the other won't be
heard at
all. (This is called the "capture effect.")
--
Don Marti Electric Lichen L.L.C.
whois DM683 -rwxr--r-- Harrison Street
dmarti@electriclichen.com
San Francisco, California USA
From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:06:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Jensen mattj@thenoodle.com
To: CABAL refund list cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: refund- computerwire story
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This is cute:
"Adam Sohn who handled spin for the company when the story
first broke, is
in Washington, presumably dealing with Microsoft's other big PR
problem.
But Sohn is due back in Redmond on - you guessed it - Monday,
February 15.
"
Those of you who oppose the DOJ suit, don't worry; court won't
be in
session on President's Day, so Microsoft will not suffer from a
spin
deficit.
(BTW, I'm assuming computerwire is okay with us publicly
linking to the
story, as opposed to just letting the organizers read it. That's
what you
meant, right?)
-Matt
From dmarti@barley.electriclichen.com
Wed Feb 10 16:40:32 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:40:31 -0800
From: Don Marti dmarti@electriclichen.com
To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Cc: cabal-l@windows-refund.org,
Tabinda Khan tabindak@best.com
Subject: Re: (forw) Microsoft Demonstration - February 15th
Message-ID: 19990210164031.A6073@electriclichen.com
References: 19990210161327.P16727@hugin.imat.com
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from Rick Moen on Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 04:13:27PM -0800
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On Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 04:13:27PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Jim Carey jcarey@fostercity.org
-----
>
> I'm a Lieutenant with the Foster City Police Department and
will be the
> Watch Commander the day of the Linux/Microsoft event.
Whenever there is a
> planned gathering of a large number of people, the Police
Department likes
> to coordinate with the event planners to avoid crowd control
problems and
> negative impacts on the other citizens of our community.
Lt. Carey called to offer us a crowd location -- the top deck
of the
parking garage across from Microsoft, pending approval from the
office
complex management. The other side of Microsoft is a community
for
the elderly, and when there's too much noise there, the elderly
call
the police. And neither the police nor us wants that.
Oh, and to offer us convenient parking. Foster City, what a town.
I'm inclined to take him up on this, since we can certainly
say we're
doing what we're told -- Microsoft told us to come in for a
refund,
and the Foster City PD told us to gather on this parking
deck.
Exception: if anyone plans to go limp and be symbolically
arrested,
Lt. Carey requests that they do so in a place where they don't
have to
be carried too far and "give my officers a hernia." We settled on
the
sidewalk immediately in front of the Microsoft building.
So if you plan on getting arrested, please don't strain your
local
police force. Thank you.
--
Don Marti Electric Lichen L.L.C.
whois DM683 -rwxr--r-- Harrison Street
dmarti@electriclichen.com
San Francisco, California USA
From jcarey@fostercity.org Wed Feb
10 16:09:59 1999
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From: Jim Carey jcarey@fostercity.org
To: "'bofh@linuxmafia.com'"
bofh@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Microsoft Demonstration - February 15th
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:09:48 -0800
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Hi
I'm a Lieutenant with the Foster City Police Department and
will be the
Watch Commander the day of the Linux/Microsoft event. Whenever
there is a
planned gathering of a large number of people, the Police
Department likes
to coordinate with the event planners to avoid crowd control
problems and
negative impacts on the other citizens of our community.
I would appreciate speaking with either yourself or someone
from the users
group who is designated "in-charge" of this event. I can be
reached at
(650) 286-3321 and will be working Thursday from 7:00 a.m. until
5:00 p.m..
Thank you for your assistance.
Lieutenant Jim Carey
Foster City Police Department
From dmarti@barley.electriclichen.com
Wed Feb 10 16:02:16 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:02:15 -0800
From: Don Marti dmarti@electriclichen.com
To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Cc: Ian Kluft ikluft@cisco.com
Subject: San Jose/Santa Clara posse
Message-ID: 19990210160215.C5915@electriclichen.com
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Rick,
The San Jose/Santa Clara posse will meet at
HOTEL MARRIOTT SANTA CLARA
2700 MISSION COLLEGE BLVD
SANTA CLARA CA 95054
by the "F7" post in the parking lot next to the tennis courts,
at
10am.
The posse leader is Ian Kluft ikluft@cisco.com and the ham
radio
frequency is 446.5 MHz. Eric Raymond will be in this group.
--
Don Marti Electric Lichen L.L.C.
whois DM683 -rwxr--r-- Harrison Street
dmarti@electriclichen.com
San Francisco, California USA
From gumpert@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb
10 19:11:25 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:13:51 -0800
From: Robert Gumpert gumpert@ix.netcom.com
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To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Subject: Re: World Refund Day, Bay Area
References: 36C20ACD.5CB88CE3@ix.netcom.com
19990210152150.L16727@hugin.imat.com
36C22C11.2EBEBC00@ix.netcom.com
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Rick,
I'm in SF, pretty much central.
Robert
From gumpert@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb
10 16:59:48 1999
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From: Robert Gumpert gumpert@ix.netcom.com
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Rick,
Joining a carpool would be great. Thanks. Just let me know
where and
when.
Robert Gumpert
From gumpert@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb
10 14:37:55 1999
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From: Robert Gumpert gumpert@ix.netcom.com
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Rick Moen
Rick -
I will be taking some photos for The Independent Newspaper in
London at
the 15th event but need to know time to be there. Could you send
a
schedule of events along?
Thanks.
Robert Gumpert
From jays@panix.com Wed
Feb 10 19:05:52 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:05:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Jay Sulzberger jays@panix.com
To: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
cc: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com, Matt Jensen
mattj@thenoodle.com,
CABAL refund list cabal-l@windows-refund.org,
Jay Sulzberger jays@panix.com
Subject: Re: refund- fyi: ABCNews.com story
In-Reply-To: 19990210143239.N24053@zork.net
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On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, Nick Moffitt wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 12:32:30PM -0800, Rick Moen
wrote:
> > We've been tracking the various incarnations of Adam
Sohn (i.e.,
> > utterances) and other players such as T.R. Reid, in the
summaries on
> > http://linuxmafia.com/refund/coverage.html.
> >
> [notes on "there is a recourse for that", and Sohn's
flexible stance]
> >
> > He has now, as LXNY also correctly noted, changed his
mind.
> >
> > Further, one of the top jurists in the USA, Prof.
Lawrence Lessig of
> > Harvard Law, now has stated, in essence, that the claim
for refund
> > by terms of the contract is undeniable. Further, he
goes on to say
> > that the much-criticised UCC 2b draft legislation
would, despite its
> > legitimising of click-wrap licences, actually cement
refund rights
> > into law, so that Microsoft could no longer revoke them
as it did
> > recently in Australia.
>
> My oh my! Rick, would you mind writing up an analysis of
these two
> events for refund-news?
>
> --
> * Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has
evolved from
> smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in
front of
> smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk
(obscurity)
Just one point tangential to what is planned for 15 February
1999,
but not for what is planned for 15 March 1999:
Microsoft may "revoke" their license for Australia, which, of
course, was
sent with the Toshiba laptops by sheer incompetent inadvertence,
but they
cannot revoke the strict consumer protection and fair business
practice
laws, regulations, etc., of Australia, the Commonwealth, and all
of the
European Union. I believe that these laws, regulations, etc.,
will
shortly be brought to bear and will end the unfair advantage
Microsoft
presently enjoys at point of sale of 85% of all peecees sold
today.
oo--JS.
From dmarti@barley.electriclichen.com
Wed Feb 10 15:57:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:57:29 -0800
From: Don Marti dmarti@electriclichen.com
To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Cc: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net,
CABAL refund list cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: Re: refund- fyi: ABCNews.com story
Message-ID: 19990210155729.A5915@electriclichen.com
References: 19990209170455.B14194@hugin.imat.com
Pine.GSU.4.05.9902101227080.9438-100000@panix3.panix.com
19990210123230.D16727@hugin.imat.com
19990210143239.N24053@zork.net
19990210151637.K16727@hugin.imat.com
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from Rick Moen on Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 03:16:37PM -0800
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On Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 03:16:37PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Don's counter-strategy of nonetheless walking in, in
naive-user
> mode, and simply asserting one's right to a refund, remains
ideal,
> but we should know in advance what we will almost certainly
hear.
If somebody denies you something, you must have asked wrong.
Ask
again slower, using different words. And be polite. If your OEM
has
already denied you a refund, you're in a better position to do
this,
of course.
> I also expect Microsoft to send out "handlers" from
Foster City
> to our assembly points, to try to deal with us at a
distance.
> I suggest politely declining to deal with them, saying
we'll
> talk to the appropriate parties at 950 Tower Lane, Suite
900.
If you run into them, agree enthusiastically with anything
they say.
Express your appreciation for Microsoft. If they suggest
anything
other than walking to 950 Tower Lane, agree heartily, but add,
"as
soon as we're done picking up our refund checks, which shouldn't
take
long."
--
Don Marti Electric Lichen L.L.C.
whois DM683 -rwxr--r-- Harrison Street
dmarti@electriclichen.com
San Francisco, California USA
From nick@zork.net Wed Feb
10 14:27:52 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:32:39 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Cc: Jay Sulzberger jays@panix.com, Matt Jensen mattj@thenoodle.com,
CABAL refund list cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: Re: refund- fyi: ABCNews.com story
Message-ID: 19990210143239.N24053@zork.net
References: 19990209170455.B14194@hugin.imat.com
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from Rick Moen on Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 12:32:30PM -0800
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On Wed, Feb 10, 1999 at 12:32:30PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> We've been tracking the various incarnations of Adam Sohn
(i.e.,
> utterances) and other players such as T.R. Reid, in the
summaries on
> http://linuxmafia.com/refund/coverage.html.
>
[notes on "there is a recourse for that", and Sohn's flexible
stance]
>
> He has now, as LXNY also correctly noted, changed his
mind.
>
> Further, one of the top jurists in the USA, Prof. Lawrence
Lessig of
> Harvard Law, now has stated, in essence, that the claim for
refund
> by terms of the contract is undeniable. Further, he goes on
to say
> that the much-criticised UCC 2b draft legislation would,
despite its
> legitimising of click-wrap licences, actually cement refund
rights
> into law, so that Microsoft could no longer revoke them as
it did
> recently in Australia.
My oh my! Rick, would you mind writing up an analysis of these
two
events for refund-news?
--
* Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved
from
smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front
of
smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk
(obscurity)
From simona@computerwire.com Wed
Feb 10 13:08:30 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 16:07:04 -0500
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As our articles on Windows Refund day weren't featured on the press coverage page <http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html> - possibly because we ask people to pay for our articles - Rachel Chalmers (mailto:rachel@computerwire.com), our journalist covering the refund situation, has asked me to pass along free URLs to the articles she's written about it.
If you do use these, please let me know as the first will change when the story is aged out of the latest news section and I'll need to send you an updated link.
- Si
--
Simon Austin --- Webmaster --- ComputerWire Inc.
mailto:simona@computerwire.com
http://www.computerwire.com/
+++ Divide By Cucumber Error. Please Reinstall Universe And
Reboot +++
From mikep@swdc.stratus.com Wed
Feb 10 11:36:49 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:36:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Pelletier mikep@swdc.stratus.com
To: marshals@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Volunteering
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So, what do I need to do besides show up?
-Mike Pelletier.
From LJFlynn@aol.com Wed
Feb 10 10:45:41 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:44:49 EST
To: bofh@linuxmafia.com
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Rick, Are you considering changing the Feb 15th date to go to
Microsoft's
Foster City office because of the national holiday that day?
(Will MS's office
even be open?)//Laurie Flynn, The New York Times -
415-925-0492
From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Wed Feb 10 00:23:52 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:28:24 -0800
From: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
To: Hiro Satoh satoh@zork.net, cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: [rika@well.com:
Japanese Press wants cover 15th]
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----- Forwarded message from rika rika@well.com -----
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3-J (32)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 18:35:30 -0800
To: Nick Moffitt nick@zork.net
From: rika rika@well.com
Subject: Japanese Press wants cover 15th
In-Reply-To: 19990208175357.G21486@zork.net
Hi.
I am correspondent to Japanese computer magazine AsahiPC and
would like to
attend on 15th and report to. If you could provid some idea on
what will
happen on 15th, I would greatly appriciated.
Do you think "we" can get in the office or are you expecting
to deal with
security gurad?
How many will show up?
thank you
RIka
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
You can find translated section of my book on
http://www.l0pht.com/~tan/presskit/press/HACK!!!.html
----- End forwarded message -----
--
* Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved
from
smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front
of
smart terminals. -- obs@burnout.demon.co.uk
(obscurity)
From bhushan@magnet.at
Wed Feb 10 00:19:06 1999
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From: "Niyam" bhushan@magnet.at
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:49:07 +0530
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Dear Rick Moen,
As Contributing Editor, PCWorld India, i wrote the following
piece in my
regular column, which got published in the February 99 issue of
the
magazine in India. You may publish it on your press coverage
website,
provided you do not modify or change it in any way.
please acknowledge.
thanx
niyam
***
Get your money back from Microsoft. Conditions apply.
There's a bomb on the bus. If it stops, or even slows down as
it hurtles
through the morning rush hour traffic, it will explode.
Sure. You remember the movie, 'Speed' starring Keeanu Reeves.
But, do you
remember the advertising signboard at the rear of the doomed bus?
An ad for
a bank, it said, "Money isn't everything. Yeah right." Well,
money is
everything. And reading the fine print could get you a couple of
thousand
rupees from Microsoft. Especially if you read the fine print on
your
Microsoft package carefully.
"If you do not agree to the terms of this [agreement], PC
Manufacturer and
Microsoft are unwilling to license the software product to you,"
according
to a copy of the Windows end user licensing agreement, "and you
should
promptly contact PC Manufacturer for instructions on return of
the unused
products(s) for a refund."
I Want My Money Back
So how does it work? Simple. After purchasing your computer, do
NOT yet
switch it on. Read the Microsoft End User License Agreement
(EULA)
carefully, looking for a clause that is similar to the one above.
Then,
bring along a Linux or other OS system floppy, and preferably in
the
presence of the vendor that sold you the machine, and along with
a few
witnesses, boot up the machine using your Linux, Netware, BEOS,
OS/2, or
other OS floppy, and delete the partition tables of your hard
disk. You
would have then erased the Microsoft OS from your hard disk,
without having
launched it even once. Then, contact the vendor or Microsoft
immediately,
state that you have not accepted the EULA, and ask for
instructions on how
to return the unused manuals and CD so you may get your
refund.
So you think I'm kidding. Go check out
www.netcraft.com.au/geoffrey/toshiba.html. Here you'll find the
six month
saga of Geoffrey Bennett. This intrepid Australian Linux-user
bought a
Toshiba laptop, and followed a similar procedure to delete his
Windows
installation, and then kept following up with a startled Toshiba
until they
sent him a refund cheque for A$ 110 in August 1998. Immediately
after
Geoffrey updated his website, news travelled around the web and
millions of
people descended on his and other newly spinning websites across
the web on
the refund. To be fair, it was actually a woman called Donna who
got the
first refund, from Canon, almost a year before Geoffrey got his.
But
Geoffrey documented his story well, and even published a scanned
image of
the cheque online. That of course, is like hungry sharks tasting
blood in
the ocean. The scanned image of this historic cheque is eagerly
loading
into thousands of browsers around the world even as you read
this.
Pulling out all the stops
The Windows Refund Center, www.linuxmafia.com/refund/ is
spearheading the
effort to reimburse PC users running a non-Windows operating
system for the
cost of their pre-installed OS. This website has a FAQ, as well
as several
links to press coverage, area-wise centres, and online
newsletter
subscriptions. Several campaigns are especially being waged among
Linux
users and to publicize the movement, these groups have declared
February 15
"Windows Refund Day." Admittedly motivated by the possibility of
a
nice-sized check from Microsoft, the organizers say the larger
goal is to
bring public attention to the open source movement and to
Microsoft's
licensing agreements with PC makers that preclude hardware
vendors from
loading non-Windows operating systems.
"A lot of the people involved want a refund on principle,"
said Matt
Jensen, Webmaster for the Windows Refund Center site and a
Seattle-based
Linux user. "My longer term goal would be to have Microsoft
change its
licensing so they don't force companies to bundle Windows."
I am quite certain that Microsoft, in all fairness, will
refund those
people who prove they did not agree to the EULA. However, it
throws open
the possibility of several unscrupulous people who may demand a
refund
after pirating a copy of the pre-installed software, or demanding
a refund
when they have launched or are still using the software
anyway.
Cross-verifying the computers of thousands or even millions of
people is
going to be costly and full of hassles. A better option is for
Microsoft to
not bundle the software, and let users decide at the time of
purchase.
Surely Microsoft has nothing to worry about, they own nearly 90%
of the
market anyway.
If any one of you has already got a refund in India, or on
reading this is
applying for one, do let us know. I'm sure all readers would be
interested
in your story.
Niyam Bhushan, Director, Digital Dionysus, consults and trains in
digital
imaging, design, and publishing. Contact him at niyam@technologist.com.
***
From chris@dibona.com
Wed Feb 10 15:11:20 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:11:39 -0800 (PST)
From: "Chris J. DiBona" chris@dibona.com
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To: rick@hugin.imat.com
cc: Don Marti dmarti@dibona.com
Subject: The Mountain View Posse.
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Hi Rick...
For those in mountain view that wish to get together for
refund day, meet
in the Parking Lot of VA Research Linux Systems, at 1235 Pear
Ave.
Directions to follow.
When: Start Congregating at 9:30am
Leave for the site at 10:00am Sharp
Where: 1235 Pear Ave #111.
>From 101 heading south:
Take the shoreline exit (like you are going to the movies).
Take a left on
shoreline. Cross over 101. Get into right lane and take a right
on Pear
Ave, which is right after the big funky SGI building on the
right.If you
hit a fence, crash through and hit a mobile home, you've gone too
far.
>From 101 heading north:
Get off at the shoreline exit, take a left onto shoreline.
Cross over 101.
Get into right lane and take a right on Pear Ave, which is right
after the
big funky SGI building on the right. Take pear to the end, VA
Research is
in the last set of buildings on the right. (You'll see a sign.)
If you hit
a fence, crash through and hit a mobile home, you've gone too
far.
I'll probably be outside handing out t-shirts, we've ordered
200 of them,
so there should be enough for most. I ahve long dark hair, and am
about 6
feet tall. I'll wear my SVLUG yellow penguin badge, so I'll be
hard to miss.
We'll leave convoy style and head up the the "designated meeting
point"
where we will meet up with our tribe.
Chris DiBona
--
Director of Linux Marketing - VA Research Inc. http://www.varesearch.com
Vice President, Silicon Valley Linux Users Group http://www.svlug.org
Webmaster & Grant Chair, Linux International. http://www.li.org
Tannu Tuva or Bust! whois cjd32 http://www.dibona.com
From kmself@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 9
22:08:17 1999
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To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Subject: Windows refund day -- KQED: Forum/Krazny
References: 199902060828.AAA02455@svlug.svlug.org,
36BF3F05.249AF8B7@allant.com,
19990208122442.E9764@hugin.imat.com
slrn7c15he.mn2.marc_news@magic.magic.metawire.com
19990209131313.F12947@hugin.imat.com
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Rick:
Have you given any thought to getting onto Michael Krazny's
"Forum" show
(KQED Radio) WRT Windows Refund Day? This would be a great
tie-in. Not
sure if you want to be the "voice", there would also probably be
some
interest in getting a balanced view from MSFT and/or one of the
VARs
(maybe you could get Augustin to stand in as a VAR
<g>).
--
Karsten M. Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com)
What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
Welchen Teil von "Gestalt" verstehen Sie nicht?
web: http://www.netcom.com/~kmself
SAS/Linux: http://www.netcom.com/~kmself/SAS/SAS4Linux.html
10:01pm up 1:13, 2 users, load average: 0.27, 0.27, 0.21
From owner-balug-talk@balug.org
Tue Feb 9 17:58:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 17:55:44 -0800
From: Don Marti dmarti@electriclichen.com
To: svlug@svlug.org,
balug-talk@balug.org
Subject: TV again
Message-ID: 19990209175544.A31999@electriclichen.com
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Attention Linux users:
If you want to see me on TV:
WB20, 9 February, 10 pm
WB20, Saturday 13 February, 6 pm
KNTV 11, Saturday 13 February, 6:30 pm
More Windows Refund Day stuff.
Hope to see you all on the 15th.
--
Don Marti Electric Lichen L.L.C.
whois DM683 -rwxr--r-- Harrison Street
dmarti@electriclichen.com
San Francisco, California USA
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From merlin@magic.magic.metawire.com
Tue Feb 9 14:09:22 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:10:14 -0800
From: Marc Merlin marc@merlins.org
To: marshals@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Need help
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Hi Rick,
I'm planning to come on the 15th, and show of having any
license to return
myself, I can always be Marshal.
Since this is going to be a day of work, knowing in advance
what times we'd
go there would be useful :-)
See you later,
Marc
--
"Microsoft is to software what McDonalds is to gourmet
cooking"
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ (friendly
to non IE browsers)
Finger marc_f@merlins.org
for PGP key and other contact information
From riegs@dnai.com Tue
Feb 9 14:02:21 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:59:28 -0800
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Subject: Public Radio Report
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Rick,
I report for a weekly public radio show called Beyond
Computers, produced
in San Francisco and and distributed nationally. I'm gonna come
to
Microsoft in Foster City on Monday to witness and chat with some
of the
people seeking refunds. I'll watch for scheduling information on
your web
page, but I wonder if you can suggest the organizer(s) of this
event most
suitable for a taped interview.
Many thanks.
John Rieger
Beyond Computers
----------------------------------------------------
John H. Rieger riegs@dnai.com
510-848-8544
----------------------------------------------------
PGP Public Key available at:
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-commands.html
----------------------------------------------------
From jsb@cs.brown.edu Tue
Feb 9 13:39:19 1999
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Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:39:17 -0500 (EST)
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> > I have a question which doesn't appear in your FAQ,
perhaps others
> > are wondering this, too?
> >
> > I purchased my Compaq laptop from CDW. Do I request a
refund from
> > CDW, Compaq or Microsoft?
>
> If you have a look at your EULA, it probably states that
Microsoft
> refuses to licence the software to persons not accepting the
EULA,
> and that they should return it to "Manufacturer" for a
refund.
Actually, I've never seen my EULA, since I never opened the
shrink wrap
the software is in, and don't plan to. In fact, I didn't even
realize
I had it until I was throwing out the box last August and
heard
something rattling around inside. I gleefully reformatted the
disk the
day I got it and never looked back.
I'll go after compaq, then.
Thanks.
John
From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Tue Feb 9 10:15:44 1999
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 11:16:33 -0700
From: Mark Bolzern Mark@LinuxMall.com
Organization: Linux Mall
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Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Windows Refund Day - Make a form
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This guy makes a good point if anyone wishes to respond to
him
--
Mark Bolzern mark@LinuxMall.com
Linux Mall --> is The Linux Superstore
http://www.LinuxMall.com
mailto:info@LinuxMall.com
Phone: 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793
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--
Linux Mall, a division of WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.
The Linux Superstore
http://www.LinuxMall.com
mailto:info@LinuxMall.com
Tel: 303-699-7470
Orders: 800-234-7813 or 303-693-3321 Fax: 303-699-2793
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 09:02:24 -0500
From: "Robert M. Epler" eples@UDel.Edu
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Subject: Windows Refund Day - Make a form letter!
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Hello friendly Linux people:
Please forward this message to the folks heading up the Windows
refund
project.
You guys really should post a form letter people seeking
refunds can
simply print out and sign. Can you imagine these poor OEMs
sorting
through mounds of hate mail demanding refunds? That's clearly not
going
to get much accomplished. A standard from letter should be
established.
It will undoubtedly speed up processing time, especially since
the
people dealing with these refunds have little or nothing to do
with the
sales agreements with Microsoft.
On a seperate note, the impending deluge of refund requests
will
ultimately aid Microsoft's anti-trust suits. After February
15th,
Microsoft will be able to cite thousands of examples where
people
received refunds - and therefore were not "forced" to use
Windows95/98.
The refund day is a good idea, though, in that it will draw
attention to
the fact that a number of consumers are unhappy, and also that
there
actually do exist other OSs.
Thanks for your time,
Rob E.
--
_________________________________________ #####| #####|
|#########################################| ###| ###|
| Rob Epler ---- Computer Science Senior| ###| ###|
| | ###| ###|
|U-N-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y--O-F--D-E-L-A-W-A-R-E| ###| @@@###|@@.
| | ###| @@@:##|@@@.
| http://udel.edu/~eples |
###| @@@:##| @@@.
| E-MAIL: eples@udel.edu |
###:@@@:#| @@@.
|#########################################| #:@@@: @@@.
|========== How's my surfing? ============| @@@. @@@.
| E-mail: reports@eat.sh*t.and.die.com
| @@@. @@@.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~' @@@. @@@.
@@@@@@@@@.
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From clingo@ihot.com Tue
Feb 9 14:07:55 1999
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 14:06:41 -0500
From: "Charles J. Lingo" clingo@ihot.com
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To: Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day
References: 36C07B70.4397@ihot.com
19990209135311.I12947@hugin.imat.com
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Rick Moen wrote:
>
> Quoting Charles J. Lingo (clingo@ihot.com):
>
> > I am a user of IBM OS/2 WARP Connect. In the FAQ it
appears that even
> > though I have never used the forced copy of Win 95 that
accompanied my
> > Acer laptop, I am not really welcome at this event to
get a refund
> > because I am not using an open source operating system.
Is this
> > correct? My shrinkwrap has not been broken, even though
the laptop was
> > purchased almost a year ago.
>
> Charles --
>
> The Bay Area effort reflected on that Web site is
coordinated by
> several volunteers who _correctly_ expected to be swamped by
the
> response from open-source OS users alone. We have, and are
trying
> to shoulder, more work to do in preparing for this event
than we
> can handle. (There is a huge and very active community of
such
> users in the Bay Area.)
>
> The only logical remedy, it seemed to us, was to encourage
multiple
> parallel efforts, to spread the work. That is why the SCO
Unix
> people are organising their user base.
>
> I'm a big fan of Warp 3 and Warp 4, and would love to see a
huge
> turnout of Bay Area OS/2 users. Would you care to establish
a
> Web site, and take care of organising a group visit by OS/2
users?
> You would be doing the OS/2 a community a big favour,
especially
> given the recent collapse of OS/2 Bay Area User Group. If
you do
> not have Web space, I can lend you some, on at least a
temporary
> basis, and you are welcome to borrow and adapt any HTML and
content
> from the http://linuxmafia.com/refund/
subtree.
>
> Please let us know, and we will immediately link to your
page and
> begin sharing with you all information we have. Time is, of
course,
> short, so you will have to move quickly.
>
> By the way, you perhaps did not read the _following_
question and
> answer in the FAQ: Although the persons in our group seeking
to return
> software will be open-source OS users, and we will verify
their
> status as such prior to our collective visit, others who
wish
> to come along, who are not returning software but wish to
show
> their support, are of course welcome.
>
> I am curious, also, about the packaging of your "shrinkwrap"
package:
> In my experience, there is a paperbound book with a CD-ROM
inside,
> with a green licence certificate and activation key showing
on the
> outside, with that entire package then shrink-wrapped. The
problem
> this raises is, of course, that one can use the displayed
activation
> key on the pre-loaded copy of Win9x without breaking the
shrink-wrap.
> This is why I mention in the FAQ that elapsed time since
purchase
> isn't an automatic disqualifier, but that seeking a refund
immediately
> after purchase makes it more self-evidently true that the
software
> is unused.
>
> If I have missed something about the nature of your
"shrinkwrap"
> parcel, please let me know.
>
> --
> Cheers, My pid is Inigo Montoya. You kill -9
> Rick Moen my parent process. Prepare to vi.
> rick (at) hugin.imat.com
Rick,
I should love to do this but I simply don't have the
expertise.
You are correct in your description of the shinkwrap. In Acer's
case, I
believe that you do not need these. It started, if I remember
correctly,
with a form to activate it by answering questions.
I may be hung because I didn't just delete Win95. I used
Partition magic
to shrink the Win95 partition and then install OS/2. I figured
that if
this thing didn't work I could restore it to "as purchased"
condition,
software wise, and return it. To make a long story short, I shall
never
buy another thing with the Acer name on it.
Chuck Lingo
clingo@ihot.com
From clingo@ihot.com Tue
Feb 9 13:17:04 1999
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From: "Charles J. Lingo" clingo@ihot.com
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To: rick@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Windows Refund Day
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Rick,
I am a user of IBM OS/2 WARP Connect. In the FAQ it appears
that even
though I have never used the forced copy of Win 95 that
accompanied my
Acer laptop, I am not really welcome at this event to get a
refund
because I am not using an open source operating system. Is
this
correct? My shrinkwrap has not been broken, even though the
laptop was
purchased almost a year ago.
Charles J. Lingo
San Jose, CA
408-281-2709
From owner-cabal-l-outgoing@rockhopper.deirdre.org
Tue Feb 9 03:57:58 1999
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From: Roberto.Di.Cosmo@ens.fr
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To: A.Raman@massey.ac.nz, cabal-l@windows-refund.org
Subject: Re: Selling MS Windows separately - Plan B
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Selling a copy of the software alone seems to be
implicitly
prohibited by the EULA: they say that the licence is only
given to you *on the PC it came with*.
This makes sense formally because the EULA is (ridiculously)
binding you to the *PC manufacturer*, not Microsoft.
This poses another problem, too: apparently, you are not
allowed
to re-use the CD that came with an old PC on a new replacement
machine.
That is a *mayor* field of application of the refund, so we
should
start wondering if the EULA is *legal* after all, but of course
all
this is an orthogonal issue to the current Feb 15 campaign
--Roberto
From s_mcneil@earthlink.net Thu
Feb 11 06:03:15 1999
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To: marshals@linuxmafia.com
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Subject: East Bay Marshal
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Brothers,
I humbly request to be the East Bay Marshal for Windows Refund Day.
I propose that the gathering place be in front of the
MacArthur BART
station and that the caravan shall depart at approximately one
hour
before the scheduled march in Foster City.
Further I request the creation of the email address ebay@linuxmafia.com
with a .forward pointer to s_mcneil@earthlink.net.
Please post something
about this asap so that I can gauge the drivers to passengers
ratio and
attempt to fix any discrepancies.
Lastly I propose that I rent a passenger van, paid for by me,
to assist
in the transport of participants.
If I am to succeed in my mission of gathering lots of bodies I
will need
action and assistance from you, my brothers in Open Source.
Scott
--
Scott McNeil
DXM LLC
510.339.6738
From s_mcneil@earthlink.net Wed
Feb 10 15:35:08 1999
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:34:28 -0800
From: Scott McNeil s_mcneil@earthlink.net
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To: marshals@linuxmafia.com,
Rick Moen rick@hugin.imat.com,
dmarti@electriclichen.com
Subject: East Bay Marshal!!!
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Hey Guys,
I really want this WRD to be a big blast, but we only have
five days
until the big event.
Could you announce that the east bay cartel will be meeting at
the
McArthur BART station at 10:30 AM and leaving at 11:00 AM for
Foster
City? (Maybe I am just brain dead, I didn't see a mailing list
for
WRD...)
Could you give me an email address at whatever domain you have
and point
it to s_mcneil@earthlink.net so I
can gauge the drivers to passengers
ratio? I will not pay the money to rent a van unless I can see
that
there is a need for it. (Remember, I'm unemployed...)
How about this for an announcement:
--
Windows Refund Day East Bay Gathering Site
------------------------------------------
The gathering point for WRD will be in front of the McArthur
BART
station.
Participants are encouraged to arrive early, 10:30 AM, with
signs,
banners, musical instruments, noise makers, etc.
The group will be leaving for Foster City at 11:00 AM sharp.
The East Bay Marshal is Scott McNeil. Please email him at
ebmarshal@___.___ if you
need or can offer a ride.
See you then!
Windows Refund Day Staff
--
Sorry if I sound like a nagging old bitty, but I want this to
be a grand
event! (May I bring my tambourine?)
Scott
--
Scott McNeil
DXM LLC
510.339.6738
From s_mcneil@earthlink.net Tue
Feb 9 01:40:53 1999
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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 01:38:55 -0800
From: Scott McNeil s_mcneil@earthlink.net
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Subject: East Bay Marshal
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Brothers,
I humbly request to be the East Bay Marshal for Windows Refund Day.
I propose that the gathering place be in front of the
MacArthur BART
station and that the caravan shall depart at approximately one
hour
before the scheduled march in Foster City.
Further I request the creation of the email address ebay@linuxmafia.com
with a .forward pointer to s_mcneil@earthlink.net.
Please post something
about this asap so that I can gauge the drivers to passengers
ratio and
attempt to fix any discrepancies.
Lastly I propose that I rent a passenger van, paid for by me,
to assist
in the transport of participants.
If I am to succeed in my mission of gathering lots of bodies I
will need
action and assistance from you, my brothers in Open Source.
Scott
--
Scott McNeil
DXM LLC
510.339.6738
From ikluft@cisco.com
Tue Feb 9 02:29:50 1999
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From: Ian Kluft ikluft@cisco.com
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Subject: Refund Marshal volunteer
To: marshals@linuxmafia.com
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 20:41:42 -0800 (PST)
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