From kor2@midway.uchicago.edu Thu Jul 8 04:41:24 1999 -0500 Status: R X-Status: X-Keywords: Return-Path: Received: from midway.uchicago.edu (midway.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.12]) by plaisance.uchicago.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA10793 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:41:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f131.hotmail.com [216.32.181.131]) by midway.uchicago.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA06887 for ; Thu, 8 Jul 1999 04:41:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (qmail 23901 invoked by uid 0); 8 Jul 1999 09:40:52 -0000 Message-ID: <19990708094052.23900.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 210.84.11.183 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:40:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [210.84.11.183] From: Ken Hornibrook To: kor2@midway.uchicago.edu Subject: WoT FAQ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 19:40:52 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I was reading over the WoT FAQ lately when I saw what I thought was a mistake in section 1.1.5 “What was Sammael doing in Shadar Logoth etc.,” specifically in John Novak’s section “Why Sammael’s Death in Shadar Logoth was a Ruse.” In the last paragraph of “Sammael’s Motive,” he says “It seems that the Dark One's prohibition against killing Rand included even killings in self-defense,” but looking at page 180 of LoC (paperback version), Chapter 6, Threads Woven in Shadow, I must disagree. Graendal says to Sammael, “I’ll face no armies here, but Lews Therin is gathering quite a large one to hurl against you,” and Sammael replies, “And if I destroy al’Thor then, it will violate none of the Great Lord’s command.” From this, it seems that the Forsaken _could_ attack Rand in self-defence, and that Sammael was counting on this. Incidentally, on the same page, Sammael thinks, “he did have lines of retreat prepared, as it happened – that was only prudent,” which supports the claim that Sammael’s death was a Ruse, that he had planned to flee via Shadar Logoth from the beginning. Ken Hornibrook ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From craigmoe@mindspring.com Sat Nov 11 00:39:53 CST 2000 Article: 456462 of rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Path: uchinews!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!craigmoe From: craigmoe@mindspring.com (Craig Moe) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Subject: Re: What? A WH FAQ Update Already? (SPOILERS) Date: 11 Nov 2000 04:58:42 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 44 Message-ID: <8uijm2$edb$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3a0cb543.20044388@news.clemson.edu> Reply-To: craigmoe@mindspring.com NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.9c.3a User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Win32) Xref: uchinews rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan:456462 P. Korda wrote: >In article <3a0cb543.20044388@news.clemson.edu>, >Billy Todd wrote: >>In my zeal and desire to not work on homework I've combed >>through the FAQ and updated things that can pretty safely >>and without much thought be brought up to Winter's Heart. >> >>THERE >> >> >> >> >> >>ARE >> >> >> >> >> >>SPOILERS > > >>1.1.5 >>Sammael may be Slayer's master. (WH, 449). Whichever of the Chosen he >>is, he is trying desperately not to be known. Sounds in keeping with >>Sammael's current hiding strategy. Also in keeping with his "Kill >>Rand" strategy as well. > >Agreed. I have not seen this brought up in the posts I've read, but it >seemed pretty obvious to me. Who else among the Forsaken would need to >hide his identity, and not want the others to know anything about him? >Moridishy is already the Main Man, Demandred clearly has his own >channels for Rand-killing, and Osan'gar is just too lame. It's also worth noting that our mystery man's commands differ greatly >from what Moridin ordered. While Moridin seems solely intent on recovering the ter'angreal, Isam is under no orders to recover any belongings. -- Craig Moe "I read that it had some serious side effects. I can't remember any of them, or else I could be informative. But at least I can be alarmist." --Dave Foley From johnnyreb.4@southland.smart.net.SPAMMEN.VERBOTEN Mon Nov 13 10:55:43 CST 2000 Article: 457077 of rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Path: uchinews!logbridge.uoregon.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 From: Ray Chason Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Subject: Random Ramifications (WH spoilers) Date: 12 Nov 2000 10:08:17 GMT Organization: Not bloody likely Lines: 63 Message-ID: <8ulq6h02rdc@enews3.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-054.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Royal News, Alpha 1 Xref: uchinews rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan:457077 There do be Winter's Heart spoilers here.... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1. Moridin and the True Power: In WH, chapter 13, "Wonderful News," we learn that "only Moridin had that privilege [access to the TP], now, since his...anointing." (ellipsis in original) This has two possible implications for earlier events: a) Was Moridin named Nae'blis before or after Rand's fight with Sammael? If before, then Sammael could not have escaped with a TP gateway. Rand did not sense the weaving of a saidin gateway. That leaves the possibilities that Sammael was balefired, or that he escaped through the Waygate. Rand's presence would have drawn Machin Shin. Bye bye, Sammael. b) In tPoD, chapter 12, "New Alliances," we first learn that Moridin is Nae'blis. So at this point, the other Forsaken no longer have access to the TP. *But Shaidar Haran channels the TP shortly after*. 2. Lanf^H^H^H^HCyndane and the Eelfinn: In WH, chapter 35, "With the Choedan Kal," Cyndane thinks of Alivia, "She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!" So Lanfear survived the destruction of the Eelfinn gate. Evidence, perhaps, that Moiraine did too. -- --------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============-------------- PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc People should respect the law, and the law should respect people. Delenda est Windoze From maccabeus_the_mad@my-deja.com Mon Nov 13 10:55:48 CST 2000 Article: 457356 of rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Path: uchinews!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: Maccabeus Epimanes Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan Subject: Re: Random Ramifications (WH spoilers) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2000 02:10:33 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 91 Message-ID: <8uniim$rb8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8ulq6h02rdc@enews3.newsguy.com> <8um5mv$i5o$1@news.ox.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.249.147.217 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 13 02:10:33 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.74 [en] (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x59.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.249.147.217 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDmaccabeus_the_mad Xref: uchinews rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan:457356 In article <8um5mv$i5o$1@news.ox.ac.uk>, "Mark Brimicombe" wrote: > > Ray Chason wrote in > message news:8ulq6h02rdc@enews3.newsguy.com... > > There do be Winter's Heart spoilers here.... > > > > 1 > > 2 > > 3 > > 4 > > 5 > > 6 > > 7 > > 8 > > 9 > > 10 > > 11 > > 12 > > 13 > > 14 > > 15 > > 16 > > 17 > > 18 > > 19 > > 20 > > 21 > > 22 > > 23 > > 24 > > 25 > > > > 1. Moridin and the True Power: > > > > In WH, chapter 13, "Wonderful News," we learn that "only Moridin > had > > that privilege [access to the TP], now, since his...anointing." > > (ellipsis in original) This has two possible implications for > > earlier events: > > > > a) Was Moridin named Nae'blis before or after Rand's fight with > > Sammael? If before, then Sammael could not have escaped with a > > TP gateway. Rand did not sense the weaving of a saidin > gateway. > > That leaves the possibilities that Sammael was balefired, or > that > > he escaped through the Waygate. > > > > Rand's presence would have drawn Machin Shin. Bye bye, > Sammael. Sammael could still simply have ducked around a corner or something while Rand was distracted after killing Liah. Also, remember that Moiraine was able to hold Machin Shin off for a time, and she isn't anywhere near Sammy's strength. He might well have been able to burn his way through. Finally, we haven't seen Machin Shin dogging Rand's footsteps since TGH, and we _did_ see it giving Perrin trouble later. For all we know, it gave up. > Good one! How come that isn't already in the FAQ section about Sammael? > > > > b) In tPoD, chapter 12, "New Alliances," we first learn that > Moridin > > is Nae'blis. So at this point, the other Forsaken no longer > have > > access to the TP. *But Shaidar Haran channels the TP shortly > > after*. > > No evidence that this is the TP: could just be extra innate abilities > from the > DO, like Fain's ta'veren tracker or Slayer's t'a'r shortcuts. I note that all of Shaidar Haren's extra abilities can be seen as manipulations of shadow. When he blocks the Source, it's not like a shield; like an eclipse, he "shadows" the channeler, so that the Source seems not to be there. And if we were to consider darkness as a force in its own right (which we usually don't), the shadowless light produced by SH certainly seems a plausible result of "gathering up" that darkness into the ball in his hand. -- Maccabeus Epimanes Hammer of the Light "It is time for judgement to begin with the House of God." 1 Peter 4:17 Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.