Subject: Re: Gholam and Mordeth (WH Spoilers and possible WOT FAQ addition)

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 13:55:18 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
  [email-masked] wrote:
> Spoiler Space:
>
> I just finished the book tonight but I haven't seen this particular
> topic discussed here.  My apologies if it has already been addressed.
>
> Has anyone noticed that in WH there is evidence that Mordeth (before
he
> merged with Fain) was a gholam?
>
> In WH Chapter 16 "An Unexpected Encounter" p 355 we have the
> description of the Gholam's escape:
>
> "The creature stuck its hands into a hole left by a missing brick ...
> Hands followed arms, and then the gholam's head went into the hole ...
> The gholam's chest slithered through, its legs, and it was gone.
> Through an opening maybe the size of Mat's two hands."
>
> and Mat's reaction a paragraph below: "I have [seen its like before]
in
> Shgadar Logoth."
>
> So I dug up my old beat up paperback copy of TEotW and found the
> description of Mordeth escaping the ta'veren in Shadar Logoth after he
> spooks them; Chapter 19 "Shadow's Waiting" p 285:
>
> "As Mordeth dove through the air, he stretched out and thinned, like a
> tendril of smoke.  As thin as a finger he struck a crack in the wall
> tiles and vanished into it.  A last cry hung in the room as he
> vanished, fading slowly away after he was gone.  'You are all dead!'"
>
> It seems very similar to what the gholam did, and points to Mordeth
> maybe being a gholam himself.  It would explain how he survived in
> Shadar Logoth for 2000 years, but unfortunately not much else about
him
> and his special situation and how/why he needed to merge with Fain to
> leave Shadar Logoth.  Anyway I though this warranted further
> examination, since it seems that RJ dropped the hint deliberately in
> WH.  Again, if it has already been discussed, tell me to shut up and
> please point me to the thread :)  Comments are appreciated.
>
> Charles

Not a whole lot of people go into Shadar Logoth. Gholam need to eat.
How would it have survived? Mashadar eats almost everything else,
Mordeth might not have been fast enough to get them before Mashadar.
Unless of course Mashadar turns out to be an extension of Mordeth.
(which, IIRC, it is).

The only problem is that Gholam are Shayol Ghul evil. Mordeth's evil
(according to Robert Jordan at a book signing) was designed
_specifically_ to combat the evil of Shayol Ghul, and this is the
reason that Rand's two wounds throb out of sync with each other.

hanser

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Before you buy.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:08:58 GMT

Spoiler Space:

Has anyone noticed that in WH there is evidence that Mordeth (before he
merged with Fain) was a gholam?

and Mat's reaction a paragraph below: "I have [seen its like before] in
Shgadar Logoth."

Shadar Logoth for 2000 years, but unfortunately not much else about him

Charles

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 16:01:26 GMT

> reason that Rand's two wounds throb out of sync with each other.

Here's an Idea.  We know from CoS (I think) that the Gholam chasing Mat
doesn't particularly like being forced to do all of this killing for
the shadow.  If left to its own devices it'd probably just kill
randomly (not much of an improvement).  Anyway, what if this Gholam's
mindset is the normal one for Gholams?  Another Gholam could have
broken free of the control of the Shadow and wandered around until it
found Shadar Logoth.  WHo knows what a few thousand years of freedom
would do to the psychology of a Gholam, maybe by then it had gotten
smart enough to not kill everything it saw.

And as for eating stuff, maybe Mashadar is an extension of the
Gholam... and if not, I bet there are little critters in the forest.

Graham