Subject: Timeline for Winter's Heart (SPOILERS) (long)

From: Steven Cooper <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 14:44:56 +1100

WARNING!  

MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR THE ENTIRETY OF WINTER'S HEART!



While reading through the backlog of several thousand WH posts, I noticed
that quite a few people seem confused about the chronology of the series
and what's going on during WH (comments about "twisted timelines"
abounding, and so on).  The main problem seems to be with Egwene's army
Travelling to Tar Valon at the end of TPOD, and where it fits with what
happens in the new book.

Hopefully, this post will remedy the situation.  I've combed through all
the timing references in WH and, after a bit of struggling with what at
first seemed contradictions but turned out not to be, assembled what I'm
quite confident is the correct timeline.  However, I haven't yet updated my
"Tellings of the Wheel" WOT Chronology site (ObCommercial:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/wotchron.htm ) since feedback
>from here may cause me to change things.

After the timeline, I've put some notes on various topics, and my
predictions for what we can expect in book 10, based on what stages the
various plot threads have reached.

As usual in my timelines, the new day is considered to begin at dawn.
Stuff in square brackets represents events that we were told about, but
never actually saw in direct narrative.  Events that I can't be sure I've
placed on the correct day are marked with "?".

A non-proportional font is strongly recommended for reading the timeline.
Otherwise, it will look very ugly indeed.

To provide a bit of context (and also because some of the later TPOD events
have had to move now that more information is available), I've started this
timeline with Egwene's meeting with the Andoran and Murandian armies in
TPOD, which is exactly one Randland month (28 days) before the rebel forces
Travel to Tar Valon.

Okay, here goes...

Day                                                                 Chapter
 0  Feast of Abram.  Egwene meets with the leaders of the opposing
    army.  Talmanes tells her of his intention to remain in Murandy,
    waiting for Mat.  In a meeting of the Hall, Egwene forces them 
    to accept her authority through a declaration of war on Elaida. 8/17-19

 1

 2  Adeleas unmasks Garenia as Zarya Alkaese, a runaway novice.     8/20,28
    Davram Bashere arrives at Rand's camp.                          8/21

 3  Rand's forces Travel to the Venir Mountains.  Eagan Padros 
    attempts to assassinate Rand.  In a fight with Assid Bakuun's
    forces, the _sul'dam_ Nerith is captured.                       8/22-23

 4

 5  [Rand's forces capture their first _damane_.]                   8/23

 6

 7

 8  Rand's forces battle Furyk Karede's men.  Rand is shot by an 
    arrow in a surprise Seanchan attack; Morr Heals him.  Rand 
    decides to attempt to take Ebou Dar.                            8/23

 9  Battle between Rand's forces and the Seanchan outside Ebou Dar.
    Rand eventually uses _Callandor_, out of control.  With heavy
    casualties, both sides retreat.                                 8/24
   ?[The Seanchan defeat Ailron near Jeramel, destroying the 
    Amadician army and nobility.]                                   9/01

10 ?Alviarin returns to Tar Valon and forces Elaida to sign a 
    decree recognising Rand and giving him the Tower's protection.  8/25
   ?Using the Oath Rod, Seaine and Pevara unmask Zerah Dacan as 
    one of the rebel AS spies.  Their meeting is interrupted by 
    four other AS, one of whom (Talene) refuses to swear on the 
    Oath Rod.                                                       8/26
   ?Using the Chair of Remorse, Seaine and co. interrogate Talene.
    She reveals that she is Black Ajah, and thinks Elaida is too.   9/Pr
    Adeleas and Ispan are found murdered.                           8/28

11  Toveine Gazal's expedition is captured by Logain's men.  
    Toveine is bonded by Logain.                                    8/26
   ?Rand returns to Cairhien.  Merana and Rafela tell him of the
    Bargain made with the Sea Folk.  The Maidens punish Rand for
    leaving them behind.                                            8/27
    [Logain prevents the captured Aes Sedai at the Black Tower 
    from taking revenge on Toveine.]                                9/Pr

12  Elayne arrives in Caemlyn and claims the Lion Throne.           8/28
    Daved Hanlon meets Shiaine, who is holding Falion (and another
    BA).  Jaichim Carridin killed for his failures.                 8/28
    [The remainder of Toveine's expedition are captured and taken
    to the Black Tower.]                                            9/Pr

13  [Elayne summons Mazrim Taim to Caemlyn.]                        9/Pr

14

15  Elayne orders Birgitte to recruit mercenaries and Hunters of 
    the Horn to increase the numbers of the Palace Guard.           9/Pr
    Taim arrives in answer to Elayne's summons, and agrees to her
    demand to inspect the Black Tower.                              9/Pr
    Elayne and Aviendha are bonded as first-sisters.                9/Pr
    [Masema meets with the Seanchan.]                               8/30

16  At dawn, Taim brings news to Rand in Cairhien of Elayne's 
    return to Caemlyn and her tearing down of Rand's banners.  
    Five of the captured Aes Sedai swear fealty to Rand.
    Rand is attacked by Dashiva, with Gedwyn and Rochaid.
    Fedwin Morr loses his mind; Rand kills him.                     8/29
    [Rand and Min Travel to Rhuidean, where Rand lays a false trail
    by asking many questions about Shara.]                          9/Pr
    [Daved Hanlon joins the Palace Guard in Caemlyn, using the 
    alias of Doilin Mellar.]                                        9/10

17  Early in the morning, Toveine sees Elayne's party inspecting
    the Black Tower.  Kajima tells Logain of the new deserters'
    names posted by Taim after his return from Cairhien.            9/Pr
    [Rand and Min Travel to Tear, where Rand lays another false 
    trail by asking about Chachin.]                                 9/Pr

18  Rand and Min return to the Academy in Cairhien so that Min can
    retrieve Herid Fel's books.  Rand appoints Dobraine steward of
    Cairhien in his absence.  He and Min Travel to the wilderness
    near Tar Valon, where he tells Min he intends to remove the 
    Taint from _saidin_.                                            9/Pr
   ?Elayne and Aviendha are accosted by street toughs while in
    disguise in Caemlyn at night.                                   9/07

19  Perrin confronts the Prophet.  He convinces Masema to accompany
    him to Cairhien.  Faile, Maighdin and Alliandre are captured by
    the Shaido.                                                     8/30
    Returning to his camp, Perrin learns Faile has been taken.      9/01-02
    The Shaido take Faile and her companions to their camp, 
    arriving after nightfall.                                       9/03
    [Nynaeve sends eighteen of the Kin into Seanchan-occupied lands
    to find any Kin refugees there and bring them back to Caemlyn.] 9/08

20  Faile and the others discover they are in a huge Aiel encampment.
    Galina Heals them.  They are given jewellery to mark them as
    Sevanna's _gai'shain_.  Therava orders them to spy on Sevanna.
    Galina forces Faile to agree to fetch Therava's oath rod.       9/03-04
    Perrin wakes in Berelain's bed.  Berelain reports that Masema
    has brought his entire army to join them.
    Perrin prepares to move his forces south, following the Shaido.
    Masema decides to accompany him.                                9/05-06
    News arrives in Caemlyn of Naean and Elenia's escort being
    ambushed near Aringill.                                         9/07
    The Seanchan _damane_ Alivia is released from her _a'dam_.      9/08
    Dyelin brings news of the Borderland armies in Braem Wood.
    A faked assassination attempt, masterminded by Doilin Mellar
    (Daved Hanlon) is made on Elayne.  She promotes Mellar to 
    Captain of her bodyguard.                                       9/09-10
    Elayne and Nynaeve meet with Egwene in _Tel'aran'rhiod_.  They
    discover Luc watching them.                                     9/10
    Asne, Chesmal, Eldrith and Temaile meet in Caemlyn.  Temaile 
    tells of spying on the girls in _Tel'aran'rhiod_.               9/10
    [The last remaining captured sisters in the Aiel camp at
    Cairhien agree to swear fealty to Rand.]                        9/13
    [The _damane_ Lidya foretells Tuon's fate.]                     9/14

21  In Caemlyn, Marillin Gemalphin informs Shiaine that one of the 
    sisters in the Palace is Black Ajah.                            9/10
    [Merilille is dispatched to Braem Wood to contact the 
    Borderland rulers.]                                             9/26
    Rand and Min arrive in the Palace.  He learns from Nynaeve that
    Egwene is Amyrlin. Nynaeve agrees to help him cleanse _saidin_. 9/11
    Elayne, Aviendha and Min bond Rand.                             9/12
    In Cairhien, Alanna falls unconscious.  Damer Flinn learns how
    to Heal stilling.  Dobraine releases Caraline and Darlin from
    Arilyn's palace, and sends them on their way to Tear.           9/13
    Demandred, Graendal, Osan'gar, Aran'gar and Cyndane, commanded
    by Moridin, meet near Shayol Ghul.  Cyndane tells how Rand 
    plans to use the Choedan Kal to cleanse _saidin_.               9/13
    Tuon arrives in Ebou Dar aboard _The Victory of Kidron_, leading
    the _Corenne_.  Seanchan settlers begin flooding out of Ebou Dar
    into the surrounding countryside.                               9/14
    Mat visits Aludra and tells her how the Seanchan have wiped out
    the Guild of Illuminators in Tanchico.  Valan Luca agrees to let
    him travel with him out of Ebou Dar.  Returning to the city, Mat
    is attacked by the _gholam_ and rescued by Noal Charin.         9/15-16
    In the Tarasin Palace, Mat meets Tuon, Anath and Suroth.  Tuon
    promises Tylin she will be raised to the Blood.                 9/17

22  Elayne wakes to find that Rand has left Caemlyn, along with Min,
    Nynaeve, Lan and Alivia.                                        9/12
    Mat visits The Wandering Woman and arranges to hide his clothes
    and gold there.  He visits the bellmaker Calwyn Sutoma.         9/18

23  Mat continues to visit Aludra and Sutoma.                       9/18

24 ?Tylin begins spending more time with Suroth and Tuon.  Tuon 
    begins following Mat discreetly.  Sutoma bars Mat from any
    further visits.                                                 9/18
    [Rochaid arrives in Far Madding.]                               9/22
    [Alanna wakes up.]                                              9/25

25 ?Tuon finds Mat's _ashanderei_ and offers to buy it.             9/18

26  Mat pays another visit to The Wandering Woman.  He agrees to 
    help Joline, Teslyn and Edesina escape from Ebou Dar.           9/19
    Bethamin encounters a Seeker who orders her to spy on Egeanin.  9/20
    Bethamin tells Egeanin and Bayle Domon of the Seeker.  Domon
    decides to look for Mat and Thom.                               9/21
    Rand finds and kills Rochaid in Far Madding.  Kisman escapes,
    but is killed by Padan Fain.                                    9/22
    Rand's party leave their rooms at The Crown of Maredo.  Later
    that night, the couple now staying in Rand and Min's room are
    killed by Slayer.                                               9/22
    [The Two Rivers girls arrive at Egwene's camp.]                 8/30
    [The _gholam_ returns to Ebou Dar.  It continues to kill
    through the following nights.]                                  9/28

27  Cadsuane's party, including Alanna and Verin, arrive in Far
    Madding.                                                        9/23-24
    Tylin and Suroth leave Ebou Dar on a tour of Altara.  Mat begins
    planning escape with Thom and Juilin.  Beslan suggests starting
    an uprising in the city.                                        9/28
    Elayne meets with Egwene in the Emond's Field of
    _Tel'aran'rhiod_.                                               9/26

28  Egwene's army Travels from Murandy to Tar Valon.                8/30
    Cadsuane and Alanna visit Rand and Min.  He tells Alanna to 
    return to Cairhien and take Merana, Rafela, Bera and Kiruna to 
    deal with the rebels in Tear.                                   9/25
    Merilille returns to Caemlyn with news of the Borderland rulers.
    Elayne decides to meet them.  She convinces them to move south,
    towards Murandy.  Returning to Caemlyn at dusk, Elayne hears 
    news of four small armies approaching from the east.            9/26-27

29  [Alanna, obeying Rand's orders, Travels to Tear.]               9/25

30

31  [Jasfer Anan sails from Ebou Dar for Illian, taking his family 
    with him.]                                                      9/29

32

33

34  Juilin finally obtains an _a'dam_ for Mat.  However, they find
    that Setalle Anan cannot use it to pretend to be a _sul'dam_ as
    they had planned.  Bayle Domon takes Mat to Egeanin.  She agrees
    to join him in escaping, and will provide three _sul'dam_.      9/28-29

35  At night, Egeanin brings Joline and the others to the Tarasin
    Palace.  Mat frees the Windfinder _damane_ Estelle while Teslyn
    and Edesina are being released by Egeanin.  He discovers Tylin
    has returned early.  At her order, Mat ties her up, and leaves.
    In the stableyard anteroom, Mat is surprised by Tuon.  With 
    Noal's help, he subdues her.  Egeanin reveals Tuon to be the 
    Daughter of the Nine Moons.  Mat decides to take Tuon and 
    Selucia with them.                                              9/30-31

36  [In Ebou Dar, Riselle marries Banner-General Yamada.]           9/30

37  Rand agrees to accept Cadsuane as his advisor.  An anonymous
    message leads them to where Gedwyn and Torval are staying.  He
    and Lan find the two renegades dead, killed by Fain.  They are 
    attacked by Fain and Toram Riatin.  Fain creates an illusion of 
    Torval and Gedwyn, but Rand manages to wound Fain, who flees.
    (Lan kills Toram.)  They attempt to escape, but are captured
    and imprisoned.                                                 9/32-33
    Cadsuane uses her and Nynaeve's Well _ter'angreal_ to 
    intimidate the Counsels into releasing Rand and Lan.            9/34

38  Rand's party Travel to Shadar Logoth, where Rand and Nynaeve 
    use the Choedan Kal to cleanse the Taint from _saidin_.  The 
    Forsaken attack, but Cadsuane's forces hold them off.  Eben 
    Hopwil realises that Aran'gar can channel _saidin_.  Osan'gar 
    is obliterated by Elza Penfell.  The Taint and Shadar Logoth
    destroy each other; Moghedien is caught in the implosion.
    At the end of the battle, the female access key is destroyed,
    Eben and Kumira are dead, and Shadar Logoth is gone, leaving
    only a large crater.                                             9/35

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES

The placing of the final chapters (32-35) in Far Madding and Shadar Logoth
is not exactly specified in the text, but the table above shows them in the
earliest position they could possibly be, since in [WH:32, A Portion of
Wisdom, 592], Rand thinks: "More than a week had passed since he had killed
Rochaid and Kisman had gotten away...".

This means that Egwene's army has been at Tar Valon for at least 10 days
when the cleansing of _saidin_ takes place.  I suspect we'll find out in
the next book that they've been rather busy in that time, and that's why
no-one from Tar Valon showed up to investigate what was going on...

If these last events are placed correctly, then WH covers a span of 20
days, ignoring the prologue.  With the prologue included, that increases to
29 or so.  So as far as pacing goes, WH is about midway between the extreme
compression of ACOS and the more normal timescale of TPOD.

As usual, Jordan's cutting back and forth between plot threads makes the
timeline seem more complicated than it really is.  As the table above
shows, WH conforms to the usual sequential narrative principle that RJ has
been using for the whole series, which is that within each book, the
*endpoints* of the chapters should occur in chronological order no matter
how much time is covered by each individual chapter.  In other words, it's
perfectly OK to go backwards in time when moving from chapter N to chapter
N+1, provided that by the end of chapter N+1 the narrative has passed (or
at least caught up with) the previous chapter.

There's just one violation of this principle in WH (and it's only the
fourth time this has happened in the entire series so far): the end of
[WH:12, A Lily in Winter], with Elayne waking up in Caemlyn to find Rand
gone, happens the day after chapters 13-17.  In this case, storytelling
considerations override strict chronology -- the little epilogue to
Elayne's bonding and MPS session with Rand works far better here than as a
flashback at the top of chapter 26, which is where it would be if strict
chronological sequence were to be followed.

PREDICTIONS FOR BOOK 10

So, now that we know where the various plot threads are in relation to each
other, what can we expect in the next book?

For a start, there are three threads that are lagging well behind the rest.
They are:

  - The Black Ajah purge in the White Tower.  Last seen on day 10, with
    Seaine and co. just uncovering their first BA.  This is 18 days before
    Egwene's forces arrive at the Tower.  We need to find out how
    successful they are before the battle begins.  Here's an indication
    that they might in fact be doing quite well: at the Forsaken Coffee
    Hour in [WH:13, Wonderful News, 313], Demandred thinks how Mesaana has
    been "shy, of late", and Moridin notes that this is not the first
    Coffee Hour that Mesaana has missed.  This is on day 21 -- maybe, just
    maybe, Mesaana is out of action by this time?

  - The Black Tower conflict between Taim and Logain, with Toveine and co.
    trying to stir the pot.  Last seen on day 17.  We can expect something
    big to happen here shortly -- the irritatingly vague last chapter of
    TPOD refers to a rumour that "It was the Black Tower that had been
    broken, by Aes Sedai designs and Aes Sedai power, and Asha'man hunted
    Asha'man across the nations" [TPOD:31, After, 590].  I expect that
    we'll find that, as with Egwene and her Aes Sedai, the reason neither
    Taim nor Logain showed up at the cleansing of _saidin_ is that they
    have other problems by this time.

  - The bloody Perrin thread (sigh).  Last seen on day 20, with Perrin
    moving to follow the Shaido.  Here's hoping Jordan skips over the
    journey and jumps straight to the big battle that's been shaping up for
    three books now.

I'd expect most of the first third or so of book 10 to consist of these
threads, although RJ does have the problem that none of the main
characters, except Perrin, are involved in them.  I doubt this will bother
those who would like to see Logain and Taim finally clash in earnest,
though...

Next, we have Elayne in Caemlyn (about to come under siege), and Egwene's
forces arriving at the Tower.  These two threads are both currently sitting
at day 28, ten days before the cleansing of _saidin_.  I hope we see lots
of Egwene in book 10, since she certainly got short-changed in WH.  I have
a feeling that the resolution of the White Tower conflict will be the
climax of the next book.

After languishing so far behind after TPOD, Mat has almost caught up to the
lead, now -- which unfortunately means we probably won't see him and Tuon
until, at best, the half-way point of book 10.

With so much catching-up still to be done, I don't expect we'll see much
forward movement in the timeline, and get answers to our new questions
(e.g. Is the Taint *really* gone for good?) until quite late in book 10.
On the bright side, though, I'm reasonably confident that the next book
will end with most, if not all, of the currently outstanding plot business
dealt with, for the first time since this series of overlapping books
started with ACOS.  A new phase of the series could then begin, as we
finally head toward the Last Battle.  As always, we'll have to RAFO.

-- 
Steven Cooper            |   "Surprising what you can dig out of books
Melbourne, Australia.    |         if you read long enough, isn't it?"
[email-masked]  |                             -- Rand al'Thor

---

From: Steven Cooper <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 02:14:44 +1100

SPOILERS



On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 02:58:00 GMT, Joseph Slonimsky <[email-masked]>
wrote:

>Steven Cooper wrote:

[snip timeline of the attack on Rand]

>How sure are you of the above? I'v always assumed that the timeline went 
>something like:
>Taim finds out that Elayne pulled down flags
>Taim visits Rand
>Rand gets Attacked
>Taim visits Rand again
>Taim visits Elayne about three days after the attak on Rand

Thanks for your comments.  This is the part of the timeline I found the
most difficult to deal with.  I've had a more careful look at it today, and
discovered it *is* possible to move the attack on Rand back to day 13.
This basically gives your scenario, except that it's two days after the
attack that Taim answers Elayne's summons, not three.

This is good, because it fits much better with Shalon's thought on p.454:
"She had needed some explanation of why the Aes Sedai had held her for a
week..."  She was taken on the day of the attack, and released, on
Cadsuane's orders (p.309) late on day 22.

It also removes the question of why Taim waited for several days after
Elayne's return before informing Rand.  Good work!

>Are you basing this on the comment in the prologue of Taim just getting 
>back from Cairhein? This might be considered suspect, as this info would 
>have been provided by Taim, and therefore could be a lie..

It was more the case that I mistakenly assumed that the attack had to occur
on the day before Toveine's scene at the Black Tower where Kajima tells
about the new traitors' names posted by Taim.  But of course, it's quite
reasonable that Taim would take a couple of days to try and track down
Rand, or maybe wait and see whether Flinn, Narishma and Hopwil would return
to the Black Tower, before deciding to go ahead and make them outcasts.

It's just as well this works, because although the attack itself can be
moved back to day 13, the aftermath at the Black Tower can only be moved
back to day 16.  This is because it *must* take place no earlier than the
day after Taim meets with Elayne, and that scene is fixed at day 15 by
multiple lines of evidence.  For example:
  - Elayne describing Merilille (p.35): "...barely more than two weeks
    teaching the Windfinders had brought changes."  The day Merilille
    started teaching is before the start of the timeline I posted, but it
    would be day -6.  "Barely more than two weeks" implies 21 days,
    minimum.  Therefore this Elayne POV scene is on day 15 or later.
  - After the fake assassination attempt, Birgitte tells Elayne that Mellar
    (Daved Hanlon) has been in the guard for four days (at least) (p. 227).
    He obviously joined up as part of the recruiting drive Elayne ordered
    in this prologue scene.  This gives a minimum of five days between the
    prologue scene and the assassination attempt (which is on day 20). 
    Therefore, this scene is on day 15 or earlier.
To satisfy both of these constraints, Elayne's prologue scene must occur on
day 15.  (In fact, there's even more confirmatory evidence, which I won't
bore you with, assuming your eyes haven't glazed over already...)

Pushing this aftermath scene back also pushes Toveine's capture in TPOD
chapter 26 back by a day, since Gabrelle's information on p.65 tells us
there must be six days (at least) between the two points.

>Also, introducing a point of speculation, why would Taim be carrying out 
>Rands orders in respect to Rands 'gift' if he knows he's going to order 
>Rands death the next day?

This is also a good point, which I had not paid sufficient attention to.
How irritating for Taim, to have to go back to obeying Rand's orders after
almost getting free of him...

So the updated timeline for this period now looks like this:

Day                                                                 Chapter
10 ?Alviarin returns to Tar Valon and forces Elaida to sign a 
    decree recognising Rand and giving him the Tower's protection.  8/25
    Using the Oath Rod, Seaine and Pevara unmask Zerah Dacan as 
    one of the rebel AS spies.  Their meeting is interrupted by 
    four other AS, one of whom (Talene) refuses to swear on the 
    Oath Rod.                                                       8/26
    Using the Chair of Remorse, Seaine and co. interrogate Talene.
    She reveals that she is Black Ajah, and thinks Elaida is too.   9/Pr
    Toveine Gazal's expedition is captured by Logain's men.  
    Toveine is bonded by Logain.                                    8/26
    Adeleas and Ispan are found murdered.                           8/28
    [Logain prevents the captured Aes Sedai at the Black Tower 
    from taking revenge on Toveine.]                                9/Pr

11 ?Rand returns to Cairhien.  Merana and Rafela tell him of the

12  Elayne arrives in Caemlyn and claims the Lion Throne.           8/28
    Daved Hanlon meets Shiaine, who is holding Falion (and another
    BA).  Jaichim Carridin is killed for his failures.              8/28

13  At dawn, Taim brings news to Rand in Cairhien of Elayne's 
    return to Caemlyn and her tearing down of Rand's banners.  
    Five of the captured Aes Sedai swear fealty to Rand.
    Rand is attacked by Dashiva, with Gedwyn and Rochaid.
    Fedwin Morr loses his mind; Rand kills him.                     8/29
    [Rand and Min Travel to Rhuidean, where Rand lays a false trail
    by asking many questions about Shara.]                          9/Pr
    [Elayne summons Mazrim Taim to Caemlyn.]                        9/Pr

14

16  Early in the morning, Toveine sees Elayne's party inspecting
   ?Rand and Min return to the Academy in Cairhien so that Min can

This adds an extra day compared to previous timeline for Rand and Min to
move around between the attack and the last scene of the Prologue, but
that's OK.  From Min's information on p.84 we know they first Travelled to
Rhuidean and last Travelled to Tear, but their movements in between are not
specified.

[snip]

>Basically I think that this means that the next book will be 
>a long one (hopefully in terms of pages, but mainly in terms of time 
>covered.) Hopefully 25 to 30 days.

Heh.  Before ACOS came along, the shortest book in terms of timescale was
TSR, which covers a 'mere' 38 days or so.

It's interesting to note that, even after nine books, the series is still
spanning less total time than we have to put up with between WOT
installments these days.

-- 
Steven Cooper            |               "I'm entitled to my opinion!"
Melbourne, Australia.    | "It is your assumption that we are entitled
[email-masked]  |          to it as well that is irritating."