From star Sat Feb 28 04:52:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 28 Feb 2004 04:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F7AD3D95 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:18:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1QNG6lp018644; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:16:06 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1QNF3lp005974 for ; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:15:03 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i1QNEoQ18250 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:14:50 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] VAX/VMS Filesystem Message-ID: <20040226181450.A17451@cgi.jachomes.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from "Burke, Thomas G." on Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 12:28:58PM -0800 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 18:14:50 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1257 Lines: 30 On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 12:28:58PM -0800, Burke, Thomas G. wrote: > We have a bunch of stuff running on DEC VAX machines here at work... > I understand that I cannot port the software over to any other > platform for various reasons, but we are rapidly running out of hard > disk space. Here is my question: > > Has anyone put together an (for lack of a better phrase) VAX NFS for > linux, such that I could use a linux box as a file server for a VAX > network? > > As for why not port everything over, we are developing code for old > hardware, and the Ada compiler exists only on VAX for this thing... > That's why. How about "why can't you just hang some more hard drives on the machine locally?" Cheers, -- jr 'effectiveness is solving the right problem' a -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sat Feb 28 04:52:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 28 Feb 2004 04:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BAF3E0F for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1RGT2lp011003; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:29:02 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1RGSXlp010998 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:28:34 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1Awkql-0005sq-00 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:58:31 +0530 Received: from access1.imsc.res.in (access1 [203.199.209.88]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i1RGSU2t006454 for ; Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:58:30 +0530 Received: by access1.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:58:29 +0530 From: "Kapil H. Paranjape" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] VAX/VMS Filesystem Message-ID: <20040227163406.GB1920@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: tag@linuxgazette.net References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:34:06 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 1250 Lines: 32 Hello, On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 12:28:58PM -0800, Burke, Thomas G. wrote: > We have a bunch of stuff running on DEC VAX machines here at work... > I understand that I cannot port the software over to any other > platform for various reasons, but we are rapidly running out of hard > disk space. Here is my question: > > Has anyone put together an (for lack of a better phrase) VAX NFS for > linux, such that I could use a linux box as a file server for a VAX > network? I supposed the phrase "(for lack of a better phrase) VAX NFS" means this is not NFS at all but VMS's own way of sharing files over the network. One possible solution for you would be if you have drivers on the VAX that can use "network block devices". This is decidedly more tricky than using file sharing as but Linux can export and import network block devices. So you have a Linux based server that does not "use" its disks but exports them as block devices for other networked machines to use. It also depends on how felxible VMS is about adding filesystems. It might be easier to look for NFS client drivers for VMS. Regards, Kapil. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Feb 29 18:27:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 917E13F5B for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1TGe2lp018660; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:40:02 -0500 Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i1TGdYlp018636 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:39:34 -0500 Received: (qmail 6549 invoked from network); 29 Feb 2004 16:39:34 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 29 Feb 2004 16:39:34 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CD8E0E1C7A; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:35:03 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Message-ID: <20040229163503.GA6959@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Subject: [TAG] Bad Gecko image Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:35:03 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 786 Lines: 19 Gecko is having trouble displaying this image: http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/misc/pramode/euler.png http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/pramode.html [If publishing, replace URLs with links to this issue.] Instead of the image, which is a black-and-white mathematical formula, I'm seeing a white space in Mozilla Firefox (0.8) and Galeon (1.2.5 / Mozilla 1.0.0). However, Konqueror (3.1.0) displays it fine, as does display and the GINP. Is it just my computer or is it happening everywhere? -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Feb 29 18:27:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E6A33F5E for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1TGk5lp028954; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from web41106.mail.yahoo.com (web41106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.22]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i1TGjclp025312 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:45:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20040229164532.79931.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.43.49.113] by web41106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:45:32 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Bad Gecko image To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040229163503.GA6959@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 16:45:32 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1480 Lines: 47 --- Mike Orr wrote: > Gecko is having trouble displaying this image: > > http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/misc/pramode/euler.png > http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/pramode.html > > [If publishing, replace URLs with links to this issue.] Won't be publishing this month, Mike. The mbox is on freeze. > Instead of the image, which is a black-and-white mathematical formula, > I'm > seeing a white space in Mozilla Firefox (0.8) and Galeon (1.2.5 / > Mozilla > 1.0.0). However, Konqueror (3.1.0) displays it fine, as does display > and the > GINP. Is it just my computer or is it happening everywhere? Happens to me as well, using mozilla 1.0.1, and FireFox 0.8. Dillo has no trouble displaying it at all. I believe this is a known problem with the gecko engine... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Feb 29 18:27:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:27:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 093883F35 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1TKi2lp030551; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:44:02 -0500 Received: from idiom.com (idiom.com [216.240.32.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1TKholq030545 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:43:50 -0500 Received: from idiom.com (odial197.dynamic.idiom.com [216.240.35.197]) by idiom.com (8.12.9p2/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i1TKhlOt007828 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:43:48 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bpm@idiom.com) Subject: Re: [TAG] Bad Gecko image Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) From: Breen Mullins To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20040229164532.79931.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <541E65E8-6AF8-11D8-AA17-0050E410705A@idiom.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.552) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:46:20 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 473 Lines: 24 On Sunday, Feb 29, 2004, at 08:45 US/Pacific, Thomas Adam wrote: > > Happens to me as well, using mozilla 1.0.1, and FireFox 0.8. Dillo has > no > trouble displaying it at all. I believe this is a known problem with > the > gecko engine... > It also fails using Safari 1.0 Breen -- Breen Mullins San Mateo, California _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Feb 29 18:27:54 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:27:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B763F3E for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i211O1lp028254; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:24:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i211N4lp028245 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:23:06 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Axc9S-0003fI-00 for ; Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:23:22 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Bad Gecko image Message-ID: <20040301012322.GC13875@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040229163503.GA6959@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040229163503.GA6959@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:23:22 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 2140 Lines: 48 On Sun, Feb 29, 2004 at 08:35:03AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > Gecko is having trouble displaying this image: > > http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/misc/pramode/euler.png > http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/lg/100/pramode.html > > [If publishing, replace URLs with links to this issue.] > > Instead of the image, which is a black-and-white mathematical formula, I'm > seeing a white space in Mozilla Firefox (0.8) and Galeon (1.2.5 / Mozilla > 1.0.0). However, Konqueror (3.1.0) displays it fine, as does display and the > GINP. Is it just my computer or is it happening everywhere? I like converting stuff to XPM for that kind of troubleshooting - and sure as hell, there it is: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- /* XPM */ static char *euler[] = { /* columns rows colors chars-per-pixel */ "159 35 3 1", " c black", ". c gray100", "X c None", /* pixels */ "........................................................................................................................................XXX....................", "....................................................................X..............................................................X......XX...................", "...................................................................X.....XXXXX.........................................XXXXX.......X....X..X...................", "..................................................................X.....X...XX........................................X...XX........X.....XX...................", [elided] -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The numbers are transparent on a "gray100" background. If they were e.g., black on white, they'd most likely show up fine. [quick test] Yep, shows up fine in Firebird 0.7. I'll go ahead and upload it into the repository. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Mon Mar 1 08:41:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8CB83E38 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 03:57:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Bt1lp029828; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:55:01 -0500 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Bs2lp029808 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 06:54:03 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040301115312.JYWT27661.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com> for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:53:12 +0000 Received: from popey.com (www-data@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i21BuC4q024023 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:56:13 GMT Received: (from www-data@localhost) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id i21BuC1j024020; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:56:12 GMT From: Alan Pope X-Authentication-Warning: popey.com: www-data set sender to alan@popey.com using -f Received: from 194.73.99.132 (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user alan); by popey.dyndns.org with HTTP; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:56:12 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> To: tag@linuxgazette.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Subject: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:56:12 -0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 994 Lines: 25 Hi all, I spoke with Thomas on IRC last night about this but it was late and I'm not sure I made myself clear. I'd like to be able to read the lg on my palm device. Now I know I can click the TWDT link on the front page of the site, whereupon some magic cgi-bin foo generates a pdb file for me to download. I guess this is taking the text version of TWDT and generating the pdb on the fly? My question is this. That process is fine and dandy for the current release, but I'd like to read older issues on my palm. Can the pdbs be made available on the ftp site? I could convert the files myself I suppose which would probably involve lynxing the TWDT text version of the file and then using "some tool" to generate the pdb from the .txt file. However I just wondered if as that particular wheel has already been invented, it might save some work? Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Mon Mar 1 08:41:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D753F82 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21CK1lp031398; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:20:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21CJ4lp031375 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:19:05 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AxmO8-0000i8-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:19:12 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Alan Pope Cc: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs Message-ID: <20040301121912.GC1847@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Alan Pope References: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:19:12 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1703 Lines: 40 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:56:12AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > Hi all, > > I spoke with Thomas on IRC last night about this but it was late and I'm > not sure I made myself clear. > > I'd like to be able to read the lg on my palm device. Now I know I can > click the TWDT link on the front page of the site, whereupon some magic > cgi-bin foo generates a pdb file for me to download. I guess this is > taking the text version of TWDT and generating the pdb on the fly? > > My question is this. That process is fine and dandy for the current > release, but I'd like to read older issues on my palm. Can the pdbs be > made available on the ftp site? > > I could convert the files myself I suppose which would probably involve > lynxing the TWDT text version of the file and then using "some tool" to > generate the pdb from the .txt file. However I just wondered if as that > particular wheel has already been invented, it might save some work? Nope, there's nothing set up. I'd suggest grabbing "bibelot" from Freshmeat and converting whichever TWDT you'd like. Here's the simplest way I can think of: lynx -dump -nolist http://linuxgazette.net/issueXX/TWDT.html|bibelot -f -t twdtXX.pdb where XX is the number of the issue. If you wanted to do a bunch of them in one shot, you could even do a "for" loop: for n in `seq $first $last`; do ... done where $first and $last would be the issues that you want to convert. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Mon Mar 1 08:41:44 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45F473F7A for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 04:27:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21CQ1lp031457; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:26:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21CPqlp031452 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:25:54 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AxmUr-0000jW-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:26:09 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang , Alan Pope Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs Message-ID: <20040301122609.GA2798@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Alan Pope References: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> <20040301121912.GC1847@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301121912.GC1847@callahans.org> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 07:26:09 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 646 Lines: 18 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 07:19:12AM -0500, Benjamin Okopnik wrote: > > where XX is the number of the issue. If you wanted to do a bunch of them > in one shot, you could even do a "for" loop: > > for n in `seq $first $last`; do ... done > > where $first and $last would be the issues that you want to convert. "would delimit the range of issues", I meant to say. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Mon Mar 1 13:35:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39EC53FA8 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21KL1lp023364; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:21:01 -0500 Received: from smtp2.sea.theriver.com (smtp2.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i21KKklp023359 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:20:46 -0500 Received: (qmail 11253 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2004 20:20:45 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp2.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 1 Mar 2004 20:20:45 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1F0C9E1C7A; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs Message-ID: <20040301201614.GC9272@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:16:14 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 887 Lines: 20 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:56:12AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > Can the pdbs be made available on the ftp site? linuxgazette.net doesn't have an FTP site. It now uses a portion of the website for tarball downloads. The biggest issue with putting Palm-format files in that directory is they will be picked up by the mirrors. We'd have to check with the mirrors whether the bandwidth/size would be a hardship. We also look at how widely used the files would be. The tarballs can be used on any platforms with any OS. Palm files work only with certain brands of palmtops and exclude everything else. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Mon Mar 1 13:35:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:35:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A08F3FA0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21KP1lp023434; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:25:01 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i21KOYlp023417 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:24:34 -0500 Message-ID: <20040301202433.11786.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.43.49.113] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:24:33 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040301201614.GC9272@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:24:33 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1568 Lines: 47 --- Mike Orr wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:56:12AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > > Can the pdbs be made available on the ftp site? > > linuxgazette.net doesn't have an FTP site. It now uses a portion of > the website for tarball downloads. > > The biggest issue with putting Palm-format files in that directory is > they will be picked up by the mirrors. We'd have to check with the > mirrors whether the bandwidth/size would be a hardship. We also look > at how widely used the files would be. The tarballs can be used on any > platforms with any OS. Palm files work only with certain brands of > palmtops and exclude everything else. Hence I agree that generating them on-the-fly (talking of that, congratulations, Ben!!) is a far better thing to do. And as it was pointed out, a simple: for i in $(seq a b); do ... done; is all that is required. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C013FAA for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Lg2lp011308; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:42:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Lf9lp011298 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:41:11 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AxvAD-00017Y-00 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:41:25 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs Message-ID: <20040301214125.GA4265@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <58035.194.73.99.132.1078142172.squirrel@194.73.99.132> <20040301201614.GC9272@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301201614.GC9272@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:41:25 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1276 Lines: 27 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:16:14PM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 11:56:12AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > > Can the pdbs be made available on the ftp site? > > linuxgazette.net doesn't have an FTP site. It now uses a portion of > the website for tarball downloads. > > The biggest issue with putting Palm-format files in that directory is > they will be picked up by the mirrors. We'd have to check with the > mirrors whether the bandwidth/size would be a hardship. We also look > at how widely used the files would be. The tarballs can be used on any > platforms with any OS. Palm files work only with certain brands of > palmtops and exclude everything else. Actually, AFAIK, the Palm Reader is available for several different platforms; certainly for Wind0ws, WinCE and both of the Linux distros made for the iPaq. However, I agree that we shouldn't clutter our tarballs with these things; that was the point of doing this stuff "on the fly" for the folks who want it. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37BBD3FAF for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Lx0lp028307; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:59:00 -0500 Received: from mta08-svc.ntlworld.com (mta08-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.48]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21LwPlp028301 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:58:26 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta08-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040301215825.EGEU21785.mta08-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com> for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:58:25 +0000 Received: from popey.com (alan@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i21M0f4q000317 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:00:41 GMT Received: from localhost (alan@localhost) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i21M0eeX000313 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:00:40 GMT From: Alan Pope X-X-Sender: alan@dork2 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Back issues of lg as pdbs In-Reply-To: <20040301214125.GA4265@callahans.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:00:40 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 875 Lines: 27 On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Actually, AFAIK, the Palm Reader is available for several different > platforms; certainly for Wind0ws, WinCE and both of the Linux distros > made for the iPaq. However, I agree that we shouldn't clutter our > tarballs with these things; that was the point of doing this stuff "on > the fly" for the folks who want it. > Sure, and I wasn't suggesting that you should add pdb to the tarball or the ftp server, just asking if the process is already there to generate pdbs, why not make it available for back issues to? Hence me saying why reinvent the wheel. I don't have a problem downloading the TWDTs and converting them, just thought it would be easier to use whats already there. Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3992B3FA1 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Mi1lp014470; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:44:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Mgxlp014456 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:43:01 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Axw81-0001Dz-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:43:13 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Cc: jimd@starshine.org Message-ID: <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: Ben Okopnik , The Answer Gang , jimd@starshine.org References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:43:13 -0500 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 5242 Lines: 112 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:06:08AM -0800, Heather wrote: > > Jim is working on some revision and cleanup to his article; intends to > send it directly to Ben as soon as he's happy with it. Ben, FYI. Not yet received - thanks for the heads-up. (Cc'ing Jim - is the ticket, yes?) > Thomas did his two articles, but if he submitted them I don't know. > (Hope so.) He also completed Mike's backpage. Don't have the articles, the backpage URL he gave me - http://linuxmafia.com/n6tadam/lg/backpage.html.gz doesn't work (fails at "n6tadam"). I've emailed him about it, but if you know the right coordinates, Scotty, feel free to beam them over. :) > Thomas' thread splitter is great stuff :) Cool! Seems like the new system is making life easier for everybody. I'm quite pleased with SVN, myself. > Meanwhile, I have been merging deferred Tips and marking up current > Tips. We have 16. Umm... I regret to say we should have 5 more than we > do :( I appear to have been clumsy with the other 5 tips from last time, > and we can't find em anywhere*. Jim will tell you I *really* hate losing > stuff, and the smaller, the more annoying. Damn it's frustrating. Sorry to hear that. They'll probably turn up in a drawer somewhere, if they haven't yet turned into coat hangers or paper clips or old keys that don't fit anything (it's the standard hatching cycle for aliens that come to Earth in spore form; that's why you always find those things. There's also the variety that goes through a "mens underwear" stage and implants a "never throw away" directive in the mind of the drawer owner.) > Unfortunately real life invades, plus we have a solemn oath not to push ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Funny that you should put it that way, in light of the above... quick, are you the real Heather or are you F'zziZZ Nag'ralykkk from Pluto, and what have you done with the real Heather in the latter case? > ourselves into burnout - we do sleep when exhausted. Well done to both of you. > Thomas' kit of > parts has been submitted to me so I can run it by lgazmail, and I have > so far checked 9 of the 16 tips past my script for markup safety. Sounds right on schedule to me. My mental image of the process has it culminating Tuesday evening, sometime before midnight EST. (Everybody relevant, feel free to sound off WRT this deadline.) > My only plan is a replacement picture for the current word "linux > gazette" - a picture to be exactly the same size, because I didn't feel > inclined to poke around the front page code and decide what size > parameters I could get away with. But my big bootifl monitor is still > an unhappy camper, so I have to work on it from vega (jim's station). > Columns first. Pic if it fits. If y'all want me to make *sure* it's in, > do please lemme know, I don't mind burning a little extra midnight oil > for that. :D Well, it _is_ issue 100, and a new logo would be a major-league Good Thing from my perspective - but I'll leave to your own sense of welness/sleep/sheduling arrangements. Sure would be nice if you could fit it in, though. > Jim expressed that with the habit we're making of one-week-late maybe > we should make that official release policy... Either that or start the cycle a week earlier. You've mentioned having your social, etc. schedules already tweaked to allow the space for it where it is; if anyone else has a strong preference, speak now or forever hold your piss; we are in RFC status on this question. > Not for pubs, but I thought everyone would like to know -- Thomas sure > seems to be in muuuuuuch better condition; he hasn't fainted in weeks, > he's eating well, with my help has successfully fended off another > migraine (yay!), and his dreams while still a bit ... odd ... have not > returned to the awful things that wracked him before (immeasurably a Good > Thing^tm). He also seems to be doing fine in Uni. I think he's decided > this "sleep" thingy is a feature, now that he's actually getting some. > Thanks ever so much to everyone for thinking good thoughts for him. [happy grin] Good lad, him. And a good angel of mercy, you. I'm glad to hear it. > Since I had mentioned in a past Gazette Matters that he was ill, I > guess I should tell the gentle readers he's well again too, leaving the > details out. Hope things are going okay for Rob. Yup, on all of the above. Rob, are you here? Sound off if you are, laddie; I'm sure that Heather and I aren't the only ones wishing you and your family good things, and would like to hear back. > In prospects for next month, it appears my hanging out in #hants is > netting us at least a couple articles, and maybe they'll even both be > done in time for next month's deadline. Hey, good stuff! We do need fresh blood on occasion; Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca get a little anxious if their altars aren't refreshed regularly. Ah, now *those* are gods after my own heart... * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C41E3FA7 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Mv0lp031469; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:57:00 -0500 Received: from arcturus.asante.com ([192.108.250.2]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21Muclp031462 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:56:39 -0500 Received: from [192.203.52.121] (archy.asante.COM [192.203.52.121]) by arcturus.asante.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBFA63529D for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:49:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule From: Breen Mullins To: The Answer Gang In-Reply-To: <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1078181704.1067.7.camel@archy.asante.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 (1.4.5-7) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:55:04 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 494 Lines: 20 On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 14:43, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Hey, good stuff! We do need fresh blood on occasion; Quetzalcoatl, > Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca get a little anxious if their altars aren't > refreshed regularly. Ah, now *those* are gods after my own heart... Well, they would be, right? Are you offering yours? Breen -- Breen Mullins San Mateo, California _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5A43F93 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:25:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21NO1lp000602; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:24:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i21NN6lp000583 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:23:08 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Axwku-0001La-00 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 18:23:24 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040301232324.GD4493@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <1078181704.1067.7.camel@archy.asante.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1078181704.1067.7.camel@archy.asante.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:23:24 -0500 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 1078 Lines: 25 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 02:55:04PM -0800, Breen Mullins wrote: > On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 14:43, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Hey, good stuff! We do need fresh blood on occasion; Quetzalcoatl, > > Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca get a little anxious if their altars aren't > > refreshed regularly. Ah, now *those* are gods after my own heart... > > Well, they would be, right? Are you offering yours? Uh-uh. Didn't you ever listen to Tony Bennett? [1] The folks at the Bank of America Tower charge a steep fee for storage in their vault, but you know what they say in the business: "better safe than sorry". [1] For the Philistines among us, the crooner who sang "I Left My Heart In San Francisco" (which always made me think "wait, wasn't that in New Orleans? And wasn't it a kidney?", but never mind.) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 09:07:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6923A3FCF for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FG2lp013951; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:16:02 -0500 Received: from gemini.starshine.org (gemini.starshine.org [216.240.40.169]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22FFUlp008257 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:15:31 -0500 Received: by gemini.starshine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 69CE1140BF; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:13:16 -0800 (PST) To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302151316.GA20270@starshine.org> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <1078181704.1067.7.camel@archy.asante.com> <20040301232324.GD4493@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301232324.GD4493@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:13:16 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 1356 Lines: 32 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 06:23:24PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 02:55:04PM -0800, Breen Mullins wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 14:43, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > > > > Hey, good stuff! We do need fresh blood on occasion; Quetzalcoatl, > > > Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca get a little anxious if their altars aren't > > > refreshed regularly. Ah, now *those* are gods after my own heart... > > > > Well, they would be, right? Are you offering yours? > > Uh-uh. Didn't you ever listen to Tony Bennett? [1] The folks at the Bank > of America Tower charge a steep fee for storage in their vault, but you > know what they say in the business: "better safe than sorry". > > > [1] For the Philistines among us, the crooner who sang "I Left My Heart > In San Francisco" (which always made me think "wait, wasn't that in New > Orleans? And wasn't it a kidney?", but never mind.) In "The Last Unicorn": There comes a time when the sacrifice must be your own liver, and you must not expect to get it back. With that, I think I'll stick to white magic, thanks anyway. -* Heather Stern * star@starshine.org * The Answer Gang's Editor Gal *- The Linux Gazette (http://www.linuxgazette.net/) is under the LDP _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 14:07:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147CB3E72 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JX2lp017419; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:33:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22JWdlp017414 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:32:41 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyFdQ-0000t6-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:32:56 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302193256.GD2579@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <1078181704.1067.7.camel@archy.asante.com> <20040301232324.GD4493@callahans.org> <20040302151316.GA20270@starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302151316.GA20270@starshine.org> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:32:56 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1060 Lines: 24 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:13:16AM -0800, Heather wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 06:23:24PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > [1] For the Philistines among us, the crooner who sang "I Left My Heart > > In San Francisco" (which always made me think "wait, wasn't that in New > > Orleans? And wasn't it a kidney?", but never mind.) > > In "The Last Unicorn": > There comes a time when the sacrifice must be your own liver, and you > must not expect to get it back. Eeep! Haven't read that one yet (although I managed to snarf down "Fifth Elephant" in one pass - boy, *that* can't be good for a diet...), but I'll let someone else go for that flavor of Ye Old Time Religion. If asked to volunteer, I shall demur; if proclaimed, I shall abdicate; if elected, I shall run away. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 790893FB0 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:13:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i220B1lp019241; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:11:01 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i220ATlq019226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 19:10:30 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1AxxUS-0002tY-2c by authid ; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 16:10:28 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Cc: Ben Okopnik , jimd@starshine.org Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302001027.GH823@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Ben Okopnik , jimd@starshine.org References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:10:28 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 875 Lines: 25 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Don't have the articles, the backpage URL he gave me - > > http://linuxmafia.com/n6tadam/lg/backpage.html.gz > > doesn't work (fails at "n6tadam"). I've emailed him about it, but if you > know the right coordinates, Scotty, feel free to beam them over. :) Although I don't pry into my users' stuff in their home directories, it seems a very safe bet on general principles that Thomas has merely muffed a tilde. And lo! http://linuxmafia.com/~n6tadam/lg/ There y'go. -- Cheers, The cynics among us might say: "We laugh, Rick Moen monkeyboys -- Linux IS the mainstream UNIX now! rick@linuxmafia.com MuaHaHaHa!" but that would be rude. -- Jim Dennis _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C00C3FB4 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:30:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221S1lp006895; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:28:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221RQlp006871 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:27:28 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AxyhB-0001d1-00 for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:27:41 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302012741.GA6129@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302001027.GH823@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302001027.GH823@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:27:41 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1234 Lines: 34 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 04:10:28PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > Don't have the articles, the backpage URL he gave me - > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/n6tadam/lg/backpage.html.gz > > > > doesn't work (fails at "n6tadam"). I've emailed him about it, but if you > > know the right coordinates, Scotty, feel free to beam them over. :) > > Although I don't pry into my users' stuff in their home directories, it > seems a very safe bet on general principles that Thomas has merely > muffed a tilde. And lo! > > http://linuxmafia.com/~n6tadam/lg/ > > There y'go. And indeed, so it was; and the bells rang, and the people cheered, and the angels sang hosannas, hallelujas, and other cool things starting with "h" (but *not* the one about how you can't bugger the hedgehog. [1]) Thomas had already pinged me back, but thanks anyway. A straight line is always worth something. :) [1] pTerry strikes again! * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D2263FA7 for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221p1lp008373; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:51:01 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i221oolq008368 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 20:50:51 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1Axz3a-0003K5-2y by authid for ; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:50:50 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302015049.GI823@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302001027.GH823@linuxmafia.com> <20040302012741.GA6129@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302012741.GA6129@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 17:50:50 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 401 Lines: 14 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > [1] pTerry strikes again! The duel will be Cripple Mr Onion at ten paces. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D693EBD for ; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i226b4lp006771; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:37:04 -0500 Received: from mx.starshine.org (antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i226arlp006760 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 01:36:54 -0500 Received: from mercury.starshine.org (mercury.starshine.org [216.240.40.182]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 444DE3EBD; Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from jimd by mercury.starshine.org with local (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Ay3U0-0007EH-00; Mon, 01 Mar 2004 22:34:24 -0800 To: Ben Okopnik , The Answer Gang , jimd@starshine.org Message-ID: <20040302063424.GB27724@mercury.starshine.org> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: jimd@starshine.org Subject: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:34:24 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 16438 Lines: 364 --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 05:43:13PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:06:08AM -0800, Heather wrote: >> Jim is working on some revision and cleanup to his article; intends to >> send it directly to Ben as soon as he's happy with it. Ben, FYI. > Not yet received - thanks for the heads-up. (Cc'ing Jim - > is the ticket, yes?) I sent it to the whole gang. Here it is again. -- Jim Dennis --n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="retro-1.html"

Introduction

    I've been thinking about doing a new column for Linux Gazette for a few months now. Of looking back to our first issues, reading them with an Epimethean perspective. (Epimetheus, of Greek Mythology, was brother to Prometheus --- his counterpart; while Prometheus could see into the future, Epimetheus had perfect "hindsight").

    So that's what this will be. It seems fitting somehow that we should start the new regular column at issue 100, reminiscent of the long running column in Scientific American for "50 and 100 Years Ago." Of course such number are completely arbitrary.

    In future issues I might cover multiple back issues; or look for threads that wove their way through a history of discussion.

    In most cases I will be looking for things that have changed; updates that need to be voiced. However, I expect that most of each issue is still relevant; that only minor retrospective commentary would be needed.

    In this issue we'll be looking back at the very first issue of Linux Gazette.

Long Live Slackware

John Fisk was trying Slackware 2.0.0, had been using a 2400 baud dial up to get to the 'net via a VAX/VMS account. The first version of Slackware I used was version 1.0 --- I'd been using the now forgotten SLS (Soft Landing Systems) and Yggdrasil's "Plug & Play Linux" before then and had ignored Slackware's pre-releases.

Slackware is still maintained and is now up to version 9.1 --- and the project is still headed by Patrick Volkerding

John's install was only 120Mb.

For comparison, modern Red Hat and Fedora installations require a minimum of 250Mb just for the root filesystem! However, a reasonably minimal Debian can reasonably fit in well under 120Mb; so we can't complain that Linux as a whole has become bloated.

Long Live our PPP Connections

He presents a simple PPP "keepalive" shell script. (Could use the persist directive with a modern pppd but some still might need something like the shell script) 

while [ -e /var/run/ppp0.pid ]; do
        ping -c 1 $REMOTE_ROUTER > /dev/null sleep $DELAY done

Another approach would be: 

ping -i $DELAY $REMOTE_ROUTER 2>&1 > /dev/null &

PINGPID="$!"  while [ -e /var/run/ppp0.pid ]; do
        sleep $DELAY done
kill $PINGPID

... which starts one ping process that sends a ping every $DELAY seconds; then polls slowly on the pid file and, when that's gone it kills the background task. This is no great technical improvement. There's minor improvement by not spawning so many ping processes --- we only load ping once and let it run like a daemon; then kill it when we're done with it. So this alternative approach is only valuable for edification --- and example of how to manage a backgrounded task under the shell.

Long Live Our Changes to /etc/motd and /etc/issue

    (And also: Know thy system as thy would know thine own spouse!)

The next item amounts to a 2-cent tip: that Slackware (among some other distributions) have rcS scripts (rc.sysinit on Red Hat, Fedora, and related distributions) that overwrite our /etc/motd and/or /etc/issue files. So you have to comment out that code if you want your changes to these files to persist.

My 5-penny tip over the top of that is that every Linux system administrator should read their /etc/inittab file from top to bottom and recursively follow through them by applying the following procedure:

  • For every filename you encounter:
    • Run the file command on it
    • If it's binary:
      • Read the man or info pages
      • Use any package manager to find out which package "owns" this program (dpkg -S or rpm -qf)
      • Peruse any other docs associated with that package
    • If it's a script of any sort:
      • Open it up in a text editor/viewer
    • Recurse

Following this procedure, you will wend your way through your entire system start-up sequence. You will know almost EVERYTHING about how your system boots up. (This ignores the possibility that you might have an initrd --- and initial RAMdisk, with a /linuxrc script or binary embedded in it).

As part of my LPI classes I teach this procedure and recommend that all students do this for each new distribution that they ever try to manage.

Twiddle Dee Dum: Home at Last

In the next article we see our first 2-cent tip. ~ (the "tilde" or "twiddle" character) is expanded by the shell to the current user's home directory. I'd add that ~foo will look up the home directory for the user "foo" and expand into that path. This notion of "look up" can actually be quite involved on a Linux system --- though it usually just means a search through the /etc/passwd file. On other systems it would entail NIS, LDAP, Hesiod, or even MS Windows "Domain" or "Active Directory" operations. It all depends on the contents of the /etc/nsswitch.conf and the various /lib/libnss* libraries that might be installed.

Shell Tips, Tricks, Aliases and Custom Functions

The aliases he lists are all still valid. I might add another tip to point to Ian MacDonald's bash programmable completion project which is now shipped as examples with the GNU bash sources; and is thus installed on many Linux distributions by default. To use them, simply "source" the appropriate file, as described in Ian's article under "Getting Started." Ian's article has many other tips and tricks for bash and for the readline libraries against which it's linked. (On my Debian systems Ian's bash completions are in /etc/bash_completion).

In his next article John also talks about bash custom functions. A nitpick and CAVEAT is appropriate here. The version of bash that was in common use back then would accept all those shell functions as he typed them. However, newer versions of bash 2.x and later, require that we render them slightly differently: 

 # Now, some handy functions...

 tarc () { tar -cvzf $1.tar.gz $1 ; } 
 tart () { tar -tvzf $1 | less ; }
 tarx () { tar -xvzf $1 $2 $3 $4 $5 $6 ; } 
 popmail () { popclient -3 -v -u myname -p mypassword -o /root/mail/mail-in any.where.edu ; } 
 zless () { zcat $* | less ; } 
 z () { zcat $* | less ; }

... all we've done is insert semicolons before those closing braces. This is required in newer versions of bash because it was technically a parsing bug in older versions to treat the closing brace as a separator/token. We could also have simply inserted linebreaks before the closing braces. (To understand this consider the ambiguity caused by: 'echo }' --- historically the } did not need to be quoted like a ')' would be. if that doesn't enlighten you just accept it as a quirk and realize that these old examples from 1995 must be updated slightly to run on newer versions of bash).

Zounds!!! Zany Sounds

In the next article the old links to sunsite.unc.edu are ancient and obsolete. The sounds to which he was referring can still be found at:

... which is has all the old sunsite.unc.edu contents after two name changes (it was metalab.unc.edu for awhile, too).

Alas I couldn't find the "Three Stooges" sounds at the ibiblio site; but a quick Google search suggests that we can get some audible zaniness at:

/etc/fstab for Filesystem Aliases

His article on /etc/fstab entries, particularly for "noauto" devices like CD-ROMs and floppies is still relevant. Essentially nothing as changed about that. Some new distributions have programs like magicdev which run while you're logged into the GNOME or other GUI, polling the CD-ROM drive to automatically mount any disc you insert (and to detect the type and optionally dispatch music players for audio CDs or launch file browsers for file CDs, etc). Personally I detest these automount features and disable them as soon as I can find the relevant GUI control panel.

I'd still consider this to be a 2-cent tip of sorts.

Long Live Backups and Version Control!

For the next article (about making serialized backups of files before editing them) I'd simply suggest using RCS or CVS. RCS is installed with most Linux distributions. To use it, simply create an RCS directory under any directory in which you wish to maintain some files in version control. Then every time you're about to edit a config file therein, use the command: ci -l $FILENAME; the file will be "checked in" to the RCS directory. This will automatically track each set of changes. You can always use the rcsdiff command to view the differences between the current version and the most recent --- or between any arbitrary version by using the appropriate -r switches. CVS is basically similar, but allows you to maintain a centralized repository across the network --- optionally using securely authenticated and encrypted ssh tunnels. The advantage of tracking your files under CVS is that you can restore your settings and customizations even after you've completely wiped the local system (so long as you've maintained your CVS repository host and its backups).

Tutorials for CVS and RCS:

... there are several others on the web. Google for "RCS tutorial" or "CVS tutorial"

I'd also suggest that some of us look at the newly maturing Subversion at:

... which just attained the vaunted release version 1.0 this month.

In the next article: "Accessing Linux from DOS" I notice that the old link for the LDP still works (graciously redirecting us from the old sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/ URL to the current ibiblio LDP mirror). Historical note: MDW are Matt Welsh's initials! Of course the current canonical location for the LDP (Linux Documentation Project) is now:

As for the EXT2TOOL.ZIP link, it's dead. However, a quick perusal of freshmeat suggests that anyone who needs to access ext2/ext3 filesystems from an MS-DOS prompt might want to use Werner Zimmermann's LTOOOLS package ( also at: http://www.it.fht-esslingen.de/~zimmerma/software/ltools.html Professor Zimmermann's home page). LTOOLS is the MS-DOS counterpart to the mtools package for Linux.

Apparently the LTOOLS package includes a "web interface" (one utility in the package and serve as a miniature web server for the MS Windows "localhost") and it include a Java GUI as well. LTOOLS allegedly still supports MS-DOS, but also have features for later Microsoft operating systems like '95/'98, NT, ME, XP, and Win 2000. It's also apparently portable to Solaris and other versions of UNIX (So you can access your ext2 filesystems from those as well).

mtools allows Linux users to access MS-DOS filesystems, mostly floppies, but also hard drive partitions, using commands like: mcopy a:foo.zip . or mtype b:foo.txt or just mdir (defaults to the A: drive, /dev/fd0 on most installations). mtools has been included with mainstream Linux distributions for most of the last decade, and has been available and widely used on other versions of UNIX for most of that time as well. However, when I'm teaching my LPI courses I still find that its new to more than half of the sysadmins I teach. The principle advantages of mtools are: you don't have to mount and unmount the floppies; you can mark it SGID group "floppy" and set the privileged=1 flag in /etc/mtools.conf to allow users to access MS-DOS filesystems on floppies from their own accounts (without sudo etc).

The last article in this premier issue was one on building a Linux kernel. The basic steps outline there have remained true for the last eight years. Today we use bzImage instead of the old zImage make target. Also, I usually use: 

   make menuconfig; make dep
   make clean bzImage modules modules_install install

... and now, with the recent release of the 2.6 kernels we'll be dispensing with the "make dep" step (which was used to make or modify sub-Makefiles among other things). Also the new 2.6 kenrel builds are, by default, very quiet and clean. Try one to see what I mean!

Another minor change: newer kernels can no longer be booted raw from floppies. As of 2.6 Linux always requires some sort of boot loader (SYSLINUX, GRUB, LILO, LOADLIN.EXE, etc). The rdev command is basically useless on modern kernels (though one might still use its other features to patch in a default video mode, for example). This isn't a major issue as almost everyone has almost always used a bootloader through the history of Linux; the ability to pass kernel command line parameters is just too bloody indispensable! Of course Linux kernels on other architectures such as SPARC or PowerPC have their own formats and bootloaders.

Conclusion

Overall most of the content of this old issue, almost nine years ago, is still usable today. In less than 3 pages I've summarized it and pointed out the few things that have to be considered when using this information on modern systems, updated a few obsolete URLs, and just pointed to some newer stuff in general.

That doesn't surprise me. Linux follows the UNIX heritage. Things that people learned about UNIX 30 years ago are still relevant and useful today. Things we learned about Linux 10 years ago are now relevant on new Mac OS X systems. The legacy of UNIX has spanned over half of the history of electronic computing.

--n8g4imXOkfNTN/H1-- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 06:18:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286A43F90 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22Dw1lp014963; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:58:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22Dvslp014958 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:57:56 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyAPK-0000ZQ-00; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: jimd@starshine.org Cc: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302135802.GA1938@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: Ben Okopnik , jimd@starshine.org, The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302063424.GB27724@mercury.starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302063424.GB27724@mercury.starshine.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 865 Lines: 22 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 10:34:24PM -0800, jimd@starshine.org wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 05:43:13PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:06:08AM -0800, Heather wrote: > > >> Jim is working on some revision and cleanup to his article; intends to > >> send it directly to Ben as soon as he's happy with it. Ben, FYI. > > > Not yet received - thanks for the heads-up. (Cc'ing Jim - > > is the ticket, yes?) > > > I sent it to the whole gang. Here it is again. I'd seen the original, never saw a revised version posted. Thanks! * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 19:37:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58E233FFE for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231D1lp003938; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:13:01 -0500 Received: from postoffice.1stConnect.com (mail.weguardyou.com [208.255.92.10]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i231C8lq003932 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:12:08 -0500 Received: from saturn.earth (unverified [63.155.28.59]) by postoffice.1stConnect.com (Vircom SMTPRS 3.0.273) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:12:26 -0500 Received: from saturn.earth (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by saturn.earth (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i231I2fN001280 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:03 -0600 Received: (from chris@localhost) by saturn.earth (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) id i231I2LT001279 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:02 -0600 From: Chris Gianakopoulos To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040303011802.GA1257@saturn.earth> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302063424.GB27724@mercury.starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302063424.GB27724@mercury.starshine.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:02 -0600 Status: RO Content-Length: 690 Lines: 26 Sweet! Chris G. On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 10:34:24PM -0800, jimd@starshine.org wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 05:43:13PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:06:08AM -0800, Heather wrote: > > >> Jim is working on some revision and cleanup to his article; intends to > >> send it directly to Ben as soon as he's happy with it. Ben, FYI. > > > Not yet received - thanks for the heads-up. (Cc'ing Jim - > > is the ticket, yes?) > > > I sent it to the whole gang. Here it is again. > > > -- > Jim Dennis _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 14:07:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:07:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 771B33FD9 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:43:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22HfAlp010827; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:41:10 -0500 Received: from gemini.starshine.org (gemini.starshine.org [216.240.40.169]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22Heflp010781 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:40:45 -0500 Received: by gemini.starshine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3C1B9140BF; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:38:24 -0800 (PST) To: Ben Okopnik , The Answer Gang , jimd@starshine.org Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040302173824.GA20540@starshine.org> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:38:24 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 4734 Lines: 114 On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 05:43:13PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 12:06:08AM -0800, Heather wrote: > > > > Jim is working on some revision and cleanup to his article; intends to > > send it directly to Ben as soon as he's happy with it. Ben, FYI. > > Not yet received - thanks for the heads-up. (Cc'ing Jim - > is the ticket, yes?) /me sees it attached later, good. > > Thomas did his two articles, but if he submitted them I don't know. > > (Hope so.) He also completed Mike's backpage. > > Don't have the articles, the backpage URL he gave me - Says the articles still need to finish being typed, they're done in terms of content. With matters of the eve he's not sure he can get it in by the time he originally expressed. > http://linuxmafia.com/n6tadam/lg/backpage.html.gz > know the right coordinates, Scotty, feel free to beam them over. :) /me adds a ~ > Sorry to hear that. They'll probably turn up in a drawer somewhere, if > they haven't yet turned into coat hangers or paper clips or old keys > that don't fit anything (it's the standard hatching cycle for aliens > that come to Earth in spore form; that's why you always find those > things. There's also the variety that goes through a "mens underwear" > stage and implants a "never throw away" directive in the mind of the > drawer owner.) *snicker* I predict under the couch, sometime after we get around to getting one. > > Unfortunately real life invades, plus we have a solemn oath not to push > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Funny that you should put it that way, in light of the above... quick, > are you the real Heather or are you F'zziZZ Nag'ralykkk from Pluto, and > what have you done with the real Heather in the latter case? Oh please. I'm advised on good authority I'm from *outer* space, not one of the local pads. And that's said of the real Heather. Luckily there are plenty of kindred spirits around. > > ourselves into burnout - we do sleep when exhausted. > Well done to both of you. :D > > Thomas' kit of > > parts has been submitted to me so I can run it by lgazmail, and I have > > so far checked 9 of the 16 tips past my script for markup safety. > > Sounds right on schedule to me. My mental image of the process has it > culminating Tuesday evening, sometime before midnight EST. (Everybody > relevant, feel free to sound off WRT this deadline.) tag interim1 (iow, apparently complete, but no blurb yet) and tips tarballs in my dropzone: http://www.starshine.org/lg/ mumble mutter mailbag grump. day late and a few tips short, that seems to be my standard schedule. Stats: 7 tag, 16 tips. > > My only plan is a replacement picture for the current word "linux > > gazette" - a picture to be exactly the same size, because I didn't feel > > inclined to poke around the front page code and decide what size > > parameters I could get away with. But my big bootifl monitor is still > > an unhappy camper, so I have to work on it from vega (jim's station). > > Columns first. Pic if it fits. If y'all want me to make *sure* it's in, > > do please lemme know, I don't mind burning a little extra midnight oil > > for that. :D > > Well, it _is_ issue 100, and a new logo would be a major-league Good > Thing from my perspective - but I'll leave to your own sense of > welness/sleep/sheduling arrangements. Sure would be nice if you could > fit it in, though. See what I can do this eve :) > > Jim expressed that with the habit we're making of one-week-late maybe > > we should make that official release policy... > > Either that or start the cycle a week earlier. You've mentioned having > your social, etc. schedules already tweaked to allow the space for it > where it is; if anyone else has a strong preference, speak now or > forever hold your piss; we are in RFC status on this question. I could probably move the start point back a little bit, but roll it back too far and it'll conflict with BayLISA. > > Thanks ever so much to everyone for thinking good thoughts for him. > [happy grin] Good lad, him. And a good angel of mercy, you. I'm glad to > hear it. Heh. Least I could do. > Yup, on all of the above. Rob, are you here? Sound off if you are, > laddie; I'm sure that Heather and I aren't the only ones wishing you and > your family good things, and would like to hear back. Take as long as you need though, Rob :) I'm off to work now, bye folks, see you later... -* Heather Stern * star@starshine.org * The Answer Gang's Editor Gal *- The Linux Gazette (http://www.linuxgazette.net/) is under the LDP _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 19:37:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BD6A3FFC for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i23152lp003855; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:05:04 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2314Xlp003837 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:04:34 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyKod-0001Pq-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:04:51 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040303010451.GD5031@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302173824.GA20540@starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302173824.GA20540@starshine.org> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 20:04:51 -0500 Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 3626 Lines: 81 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 09:38:24AM -0800, Heather wrote: > On Mon, Mar 01, 2004 at 05:43:13PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Sorry to hear that. They'll probably turn up in a drawer somewhere, if > > they haven't yet turned into coat hangers or paper clips or old keys > > that don't fit anything (it's the standard hatching cycle for aliens > > that come to Earth in spore form; that's why you always find those > > things. There's also the variety that goes through a "mens underwear" > > stage and implants a "never throw away" directive in the mind of the > > drawer owner.) > > *snicker* I predict under the couch, sometime after we get around to > getting one. S'alright, they're temporally flexible and will wait in an unused corner of the Multiverse until you do. Under-the-couch space is highly-valued breeding space, y'know; 6 out of 7 aliens expressed a strong preference, even after we eliminated the hivemind participant[s]. > Oh please. I'm advised on good authority I'm from *outer* space, not one > of the local pads. And that's said of the real Heather. Luckily there > are plenty of kindred spirits around. [laugh] Reminds me of a something Phil Foglio showed me at LASFS, a comic strip he did where a guy is playing silly games for his girlfriend's amusement; he leans over to the cat and stage-whispers: "Don't worry, Martian brother! I know you're here to spy on the humans, but I won't give you away!" The cat's response in the next panel is a thought bubble with a panicked "OH SHIT, HE KNOWS!" > tag interim1 (iow, apparently complete, but no blurb yet) and tips > tarballs in my dropzone: http://www.starshine.org/lg/ I'm assuming that the tips are complete - correct? I've also added tag_interim1 to the repository and placed a HOLD on it as a backup measure; *please* let me know if you change any filenames in the process of finalizing it. > mumble mutter mailbag grump. [blink] Yeeeees? > day late and a few tips short, that seems to be my standard schedule. > Stats: 7 tag, 16 tips. But is OK and coming up, yes? Or is part of one of the above? > > Well, it _is_ issue 100, and a new logo would be a major-league Good > > Thing from my perspective - but I'll leave to your own sense of > > welness/sleep/sheduling arrangements. Sure would be nice if you could > > fit it in, though. > > See what I can do this eve :) [grin] I'll be here. If I need to, I'll set an hourly alarm; my sleep buffer is comfortably full. > > > Jim expressed that with the habit we're making of one-week-late maybe > > > we should make that official release policy... > > > > Either that or start the cycle a week earlier. You've mentioned having > > your social, etc. schedules already tweaked to allow the space for it > > where it is; if anyone else has a strong preference, speak now or > > forever hold your piss; we are in RFC status on this question. > > I could probably move the start point back a little bit, but roll it > back too far and it'll conflict with BayLISA. No one seems to be expressing any preference the other way, so the current vote seems to be "antiquo", as the Romans used to say (i.e., "keep things the way the were".) We'll start mixing and pouring the concrete sometime soon - not that we've ever actually _had_ a release date policy other than "kinda sorta monthly". I think. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 3 07:18:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:18:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CB314005 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i233t2lp028800; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:55:02 -0500 Received: from gemini.starshine.org (gemini.starshine.org [216.240.40.169]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i233s5lp028776 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:54:06 -0500 Received: by gemini.starshine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B2EAA140BF; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:51:45 -0800 (PST) To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040303035145.GA20909@starshine.org> References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302173824.GA20540@starshine.org> <20040303010451.GD5031@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040303010451.GD5031@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:51:45 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 2504 Lines: 70 > thought bubble with a panicked "OH SHIT, HE KNOWS!" eee hehehehee hehee. > > tag interim1 (iow, apparently complete, but no blurb yet) and tips > > tarballs in my dropzone: http://www.starshine.org/lg/ > > I'm assuming that the tips are complete - correct? Yes. > I've also added > tag_interim1 to the repository and placed a HOLD on it as a backup > measure; *please* let me know if you change any filenames in the process > of finalizing it. No filenames will change. TWDT and lg_answers will gain a blurb. If you prefer I can send you the blurb and you can drop it into the hgreeting block in both places before hitting the button. > > mumble mutter mailbag grump. > > [blink] Yeeeees? Very light on mailbag qualified items this month; I hate it when Wanted is light, it reduces reader contributions to Tips for the next month. > > day late and a few tips short, that seems to be my standard schedule. > > Stats: 7 tag, 16 tips. > > But is OK and coming up, yes? Or is part of one of the above? Actually 16 tips is a decent number. A day late ... um, might be... yeah, I'm working on it :D > > > Well, it _is_ issue 100, and a new logo would be a major-league Good > > > Thing from my perspective - but I'll leave to your own sense of > > > welness/sleep/sheduling arrangements. Sure would be nice if you could > > > fit it in, though. > > > > See what I can do this eve :) > > [grin] I'll be here. If I need to, I'll set an hourly alarm; my sleep > buffer is comfortably full. Ah. Cool beans. > No one seems to be expressing any preference the other way, so the > current vote seems to be "antiquo", as the Romans used to say (i.e., > "keep things the way the were".) I s'pose; as I said, a couple or three days back would be ok. > We'll start mixing and pouring the > concrete sometime soon - not that we've ever actually _had_ a release > date policy other than "kinda sorta monthly". I think. "attempt the first" and "pub with placeholders, then fill in when ready after warning the mirrors about the expected completion date" have been used in the past. It's been actual monthly - with a couple "Extra!" issues - since I've been involved, but the early issues were less perfectly timed. -* Heather Stern * star@starshine.org * The Answer Gang's Editor Gal *- The Linux Gazette (http://www.linuxgazette.net/) is under the LDP _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 3 07:18:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:18:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B54F3E00 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:46:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i235i1lp018115; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:44:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i235hJlp018091 for ; Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:43:24 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyP7r-00025y-00 for ; Wed, 03 Mar 2004 00:40:59 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [Lgang] Issue 100 schedule Message-ID: <20040303054059.GC7465@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040227052350.GA3142@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040301080608.GA15867@starshine.org> <20040301224313.GA4493@callahans.org> <20040302173824.GA20540@starshine.org> <20040303010451.GD5031@callahans.org> <20040303035145.GA20909@starshine.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040303035145.GA20909@starshine.org> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 00:40:59 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1266 Lines: 35 General note: Lgang is down at the moment. Also, Thomas' articles didn't work out as he expected, so I'm rolling the pub date forward a day. ...and I'm off to bed, since there's not much point in me staying up any later. On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:51:45PM -0800, Heather wrote: > Ben wrote: > > > I've also added > > tag_interim1 to the repository and placed a HOLD on it as a backup > > measure; *please* let me know if you change any filenames in the process > > of finalizing it. > > No filenames will change. TWDT and lg_answers will gain a blurb. If you > prefer I can send you the blurb and you can drop it into the hgreeting > block in both places before hitting the button. I don't have a twiddit yet. You're the one that makes it up, right? Other than that, yeah, just send me the blurb. > > But is OK and coming up, yes? Or is part of one of the above? > > Actually 16 tips is a decent number. A day late ... um, might be... > yeah, I'm working on it :D 'K. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 09:07:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:07:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12D5B3FCE for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 06:26:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22EO0lp016612; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:24:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22ENUlp016597 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:23:32 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyAo9-0000g6-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:23:41 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] Search page at LG now operational Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:23:41 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 444 Lines: 11 Please take a look at it, folks. Any additions, subtractions, corrections, anything I've missed - let me know. I've got to run, will be back in a couple of hours. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 14:07:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 579383FD3 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 16617 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2004 18:25:30 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2004 18:25:30 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 01B4EE1C85; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0800 From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Heather Stern Subject: Re: [TAG] Search page at LG now operational Message-ID: <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Reply-To: mso@oz.net References: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Status: RO X-Status: A Content-Length: 458 Lines: 10 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 09:23:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Please take a look at it, folks. Any additions, subtractions, > corrections, anything I've missed - let me know. I've got to run, will > be back in a couple of hours. Looks good. Heather, we'll need a mention in the Mailbag or somewhere. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? From star Tue Mar 2 14:07:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:07:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C07DF3FD3 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22IQ1lp029580; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:26:01 -0500 Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i22IPUlp029575 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:25:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 16617 invoked from network); 2 Mar 2004 18:25:30 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 2 Mar 2004 18:25:30 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 01B4EE1C85; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Heather Stern Subject: Re: [TAG] Search page at LG now operational Message-ID: <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:25:28 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 589 Lines: 14 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 09:23:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Please take a look at it, folks. Any additions, subtractions, > corrections, anything I've missed - let me know. I've got to run, will > be back in a couple of hours. Looks good. Heather, we'll need a mention in the Mailbag or somewhere. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 19:37:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA4E33FE1 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MJ2lp010480; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:19:02 -0500 Received: from gemini.starshine.org (gemini.starshine.org [216.240.40.169]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MItlp010473 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:18:56 -0500 Received: by gemini.starshine.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A4F7E140BF; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:35 -0800 (PST) To: Mike Orr Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Search page at LG now operational Message-ID: <20040302221635.GA20768@starshine.org> References: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:16:35 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 680 Lines: 17 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 10:25:28AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 09:23:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Please take a look at it, folks. Any additions, subtractions, > > corrections, anything I've missed - let me know. I've got to run, will > > be back in a couple of hours. > > Looks good. Heather, we'll need a mention in the Mailbag or somewhere. One more for Gazette Matters :D -* Heather Stern * star@starshine.org * The Answer Gang's Editor Gal *- The Linux Gazette (http://www.linuxgazette.net/) is under the LDP _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 2 19:37:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C436F3FEA for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MP1lp010688; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:25:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i22MOflp010670 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:24:43 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AyIJm-0001BO-00 for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2004 17:24:50 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Search page at LG now operational Message-ID: <20040302222450.GB4285@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040302142341.GA2579@callahans.org> <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040302182528.GB12889@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:24:50 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 766 Lines: 18 On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 10:25:28AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 09:23:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Please take a look at it, folks. Any additions, subtractions, > > corrections, anything I've missed - let me know. I've got to run, will > > be back in a couple of hours. > > Looks good. Heather, we'll need a mention in the Mailbag or somewhere. Good deal. I hacked it up seconds before having to run off for an appointment; nice to see that it worked out. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C50B3EDF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24N43lp019853; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:04:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24N2vlp019821 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:02:59 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az1s5-0001Ct-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:03:17 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:03:17 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 563 Lines: 14 ...and I'm _bushed._ If any of you folks happen to be in St. Augustine for the next couple of hours, I'll be at the local bar and reachable via phone, if not necessarily coherent. :) Cripes, this thing can be a pain without "local knowledge". At least now I've got a handle on it. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sat Mar 6 03:47:34 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:47:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA763F5D for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25M16lp001242; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:01:06 -0500 Received: from ganneff.de ([213.146.108.161]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25M0vlp001160 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:00:58 -0500 Received: from spampd.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganneff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EEC8E0481 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:00:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ganneff.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445FEE05C4 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:00:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from ganneff (ganneff.ganneff.de [213.146.108.163]) by ganneff.de (Postfix) with SMTP id A632BE0481 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:00:51 +0100 (CET) Received: by ganneff (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:00:53 +0100 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Organization: Goliath-BBS In-Reply-To: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> (Ben Okopnik's message of "Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:03:17 -0500") References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> From: Joerg Jaspert X-GPG-ID: 0x7E7B8AC9 X-GPG-FP: DF7D EB2F DB28 FD2B A9FB FA6D 715E D6A0 7E7B 8AC9 X-message-flag: Formating hard disk. please wait... 10%... 20%... User-Agent: Gnus/5.1004 (Gnus v5.10.4) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Message-ID: <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p7 (Debian) at ganneff.de X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.61 (1.212.2.1-2003-12-09-exp) on goliath2 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=MANY_EXCLAMATIONS,PLING_PLING autolearn=no version=2.61 Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:00:53 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 659 Lines: 22 Ben Okopnik writes: *Nice*, issue100. Packaged for Debian now (but i kept the lg-issueXXX.deb name for it). But please check your trees before you built tarballs: In lg-base, subdir faq there is since 99 a .general.html.swp (brr, VIM) and since 100 there are 3 backup files added: author.html.bak.200402092144 general.html.bak.200402092143 index.html.bak.200402092141 -- bye Joerg A.D. 1492: Christopher Columbus arrives in what he believes to be India, but which RMS informs him is actually GNU/India. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sat Mar 6 03:47:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65E3B3EFA for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i261D1lp011827; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:13:01 -0500 Received: from smtp2.sea.theriver.com (smtp2.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i261Celp011822 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:12:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 20940 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2004 01:12:40 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp2.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2004 01:12:40 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DFC0CE1F9C; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:12:33 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Joerg Jaspert Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Message-ID: <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:12:33 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1284 Lines: 31 On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 11:00:53PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: > *Nice*, issue100. Thanks. > Packaged for Debian now (but i kept the lg-issueXXX.deb name for it). Whatever works for Debian. The only reason we changed numbering systems is so the 'ls' listing won't have two-digit issues and three-digit issues intermixed. It's a pain to work with numbered files that are not in order. I wish we could add a leading zero to the two-digit issues, but that would mess up people's bookmarks and mirrors. > But please check your trees before you built tarballs: > In lg-base, subdir faq there is since 99 a .general.html.swp (brr, VIM) and > since > 100 there are 3 backup files added: > author.html.bak.200402092144 > general.html.bak.200402092143 > index.html.bak.200402092141 Removed all *bak* files and rebuilt lg-base.tar.gz (and lg-base-new.tar.gz). I could not find a .general* or *swp file anyhere, so it must have been deleted. We'll be more careful about file droppings in the future. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C65E73F20 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28552lp021804; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:05:02 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2854tlp021790 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:04:55 -0500 Received: (qmail 16735 invoked by uid 417); 8 Mar 2004 05:04:53 -0000 Received: from charleston-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2004 05:04:53 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.62]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:04:51 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AzU5k-0000mD-3I for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 05 Mar 2004 22:11:16 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Message-Id: <20040305221116.63ad6e50.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:11:16 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 1028 Lines: 31 On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:12:33 -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 11:00:53PM +0100, Joerg Jaspert wrote: > > But please check your trees before you built tarballs: > > In lg-base, subdir faq there is since 99 a .general.html.swp (brr, VIM) and > > since > > 100 there are 3 backup files added: > > author.html.bak.200402092144 > > general.html.bak.200402092143 > > index.html.bak.200402092141 > > Removed all *bak* files and rebuilt lg-base.tar.gz (and lg-base-new.tar.gz). > I could not find a .general* or *swp file anyhere, so it must have been > deleted. We'll be more careful about file droppings in the future. For your .vimrc: `` set backup " Turn on backup set backupdir=~/.vim-backup " Place where backup files go set dir=~/.vim-backup " Place where swap files go '' ...in case you don't like those files laying all over the filesystem. Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6633E78 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28FC2lp023242; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:12:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28FBdlp023237 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:11:40 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0MQA-0001Wi-00 for ; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:11:58 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Message-ID: <20040308151158.GA5772@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040305221116.63ad6e50.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040305221116.63ad6e50.androflux@softhome.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:11:58 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 884 Lines: 24 On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 10:11:16PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > For your .vimrc: > > `` > set backup " Turn on backup > set backupdir=~/.vim-backup " Place where backup files go > set dir=~/.vim-backup " Place where swap files go > '' > > ...in case you don't like those files laying all over the filesystem. ...or in case you want to check, once in a while, what vim sessions you [cough] forgot about when you rebooted. Or, as in the case of a rather elusive Vim bug that I've been tracking, so you know where to go to delete the droppings when it crashes with a "deadly signal SEGV" error. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:32 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FE9E3DF8 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28Fl2lp009191; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:47:02 -0500 Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i28Fk9lp003762 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:46:10 -0500 Received: (qmail 7779 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2004 15:46:09 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 8 Mar 2004 15:46:09 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BF6C4E1C81; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:46:08 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Message-ID: <20040308154608.GB529@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040305221116.63ad6e50.androflux@softhome.net> <20040308151158.GA5772@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040308151158.GA5772@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:46:08 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1604 Lines: 38 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:11:58AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 10:11:16PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > > > For your .vimrc: > > > > `` > > set backup " Turn on backup > > set backupdir=~/.vim-backup " Place where backup files go > > set dir=~/.vim-backup " Place where swap files go > > '' > > > > ...in case you don't like those files laying all over the filesystem. I have those set to ~/Backups, and it works quite well -- I never have to think about stray files. Three things to keep in mind though: - The backup files will never be deleted, so you'll periodically want to go in and clear them out. - The swap files (*.swp) will not be deleted if you exit vim via the window manager's close box, ending your X session, logging out, etc. This necessitates the tedious recover, save to temp file, and diff against the original to verify you haven't lost any changes. One wishes it would either save-exit or abort-exit like every other editor does. - The backup directory is a flat namespace. So if you're editing several index.html files in different directories, only one will actually be backed up. Likewise, a lingering swap file may actually refer to another document. Vim seems to be smart enough not to use the foreign .swp, but it does trigger the recover warning. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFB3B3F8B for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28G82lp026518; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:08:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28G6wlp026489 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:07:00 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0NHY-0001fY-00 for ; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:07:08 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] LG 100 is out!!! It's alive, it's alive! Message-ID: <20040308160708.GC5772@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304230317.GA4608@callahans.org> <87hdx3ymwa.fsf@debian.org> <20040306011233.GA28897@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> <20040305221116.63ad6e50.androflux@softhome.net> <20040308151158.GA5772@callahans.org> <20040308154608.GB529@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040308154608.GB529@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:07:08 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2548 Lines: 59 On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 07:46:08AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:11:58AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 10:11:16PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > > > > > For your .vimrc: > > > > > > `` > > > set backup " Turn on backup > > > set backupdir=~/.vim-backup " Place where backup files go > > > set dir=~/.vim-backup " Place where swap files go > > > '' > > > > > > ...in case you don't like those files laying all over the filesystem. > > I have those set to ~/Backups, and it works quite well -- I never have to > think about stray files. Three things to keep in mind though: > > - The backup files will never be deleted, so you'll periodically want to > go in and clear them out. Yeah, actually I'm not so much a fan of "set backup" but "set dir" is My Friend; that's the part I was thinking about when I responded. As to the above, I suppose it would be easy enough to include in your "logrotate" configuration, or to just write a simple cron script that deletes anything older than X. > - The swap files (*.swp) will not be deleted if you exit vim via the > window manager's close box, ending your X session, logging out, etc. > This necessitates the tedious recover, save to temp file, and diff > against the original to verify you haven't lost any changes. One wishes > it would either save-exit or abort-exit like every other editor does. > > - The backup directory is a flat namespace. So if you're editing > several index.html files in different directories, only one will > actually be backed up. The part that I like is that the swap file naming scheme _isn't_ that flat. If I crash out of three different sessions with "index.html" files, I'll have an (e.g.) ".swp", ".swo", and ".swn" file that I can recover, and a simple "strings index.html.swX" will tell me exactly which one it refers to. > Likewise, a lingering swap file may actually > refer to another document. Vim seems to be smart enough not to use the > foreign .swp, but it does trigger the recover warning. Interestingly enough, mine does not, unless that file, in that directory, is the one related to an existing swapfile. ben@Fenrir:~$ vim --version|head -1 VIM - Vi IMproved 6.2 (2003 Jun 1, compiled Feb 18 2004 08:32:09) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283083EDF for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24N51lp019887; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:05:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24N4elp019873 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:04:42 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az1tk-0001DA-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:05:00 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:05:00 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1058 Lines: 35 Great. Would *somebody* please take care of this? And maybe add me to the list for next time? Thanks. ----- Forwarded message from lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net ----- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:00:03 -0500 Subject: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval From: lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net To: ben@callahans.org Sender: lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net Your mail to 'lg-announce' with the subject Issue 100 of the Linux Gazette is out! Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. The reason it is being held: Posting to a restricted list by sender requires approval Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive notification of the moderator's decision. ----- End forwarded message ----- * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAC914006 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NF2lp031679; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:15:03 -0500 Received: from web41101.mail.yahoo.com (web41101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i24NE9lp031481 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:14:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20040304231409.40321.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.43.99.173] by web41101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:14:09 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:14:09 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1102 Lines: 36 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > Great. Would *somebody* please take care of this? And maybe add me to > the list for next time? And would whomever is responsible for Lgang, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (Faber, Rick, Mike) tell me why NONE of my posts to Lgang are going through. I don't even get a polite message from mailman telling me that I have been blocked, etc... -- Thomas Adam P.S. Ben, well done! Good job! ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2243EC3 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NW1lp021505; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:32:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NUvlp021494 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:31:03 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az2JB-0001Gj-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:31:17 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval Message-ID: <20040304233117.GB4842@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> <20040304231409.40321.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040304231409.40321.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:31:17 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 846 Lines: 24 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 11:14:09PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Great. Would *somebody* please take care of this? And maybe add me to > > the list for next time? > > And would whomever is responsible for Lgang, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE (Faber, > Rick, Mike) tell me why NONE of my posts to Lgang are going through. I > don't even get a polite message from mailman telling me that I have been > blocked, etc... > > -- Thomas Adam > > P.S. Ben, well done! Good job! [grin] Thanks, Thomas. You do good moral support. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 19:11:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F7C401E for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:29:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i250R4lp019660; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:27:04 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i250Qnlq019635 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:26:50 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1Az3Au-00071e-MZ by authid for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 16:26:48 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval Message-ID: <20040305002648.GK1777@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:26:48 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 599 Lines: 24 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Great. Would *somebody* please take care of this? And maybe add me to > the list for next time? Done as to both. Addresses prospectively allowed to post to lg-announce: mso@oz.net iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-72.oz.net thomas_adam16@yahoo.com star@starshine.org ben@callahans.org <= just added Listadmins of record: faber@linuxnj.com, mso@oz.net, rick@linuxmafia.com (If you want to be among the latter, just speak up.) _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 19:11:23 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:11:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 330CB3EA9 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252B3lp009165; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:11:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252AHlp009156 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:10:19 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az4nM-0000C7-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:10:36 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] lg-announce-admin@linuxgazette.net: Your message to lg-announce awaits moderator approval Message-ID: <20040305021036.GA688@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304230500.GB4608@callahans.org> <20040305002648.GK1777@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040305002648.GK1777@linuxmafia.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:10:36 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 597 Lines: 18 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 04:26:48PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > Great. Would *somebody* please take care of this? And maybe add me to > > the list for next time? > > Done as to both. Ah, so nice to have someone taking care of things back at the farm! :) Thanks, Rick. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1313EC3 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NW5lp021524; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:32:05 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NVNlp021499 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:31:26 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az2Jb-0001HB-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:31:43 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040304233143.GC4842@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304232027.77863.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040304232027.77863.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] Re: linuxgazette.net down again Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:31:43 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 434 Lines: 13 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 11:20:27PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > Hi All, > > Seems that linuxgazette.net is down. Can someone confirm this, please? 'Tis. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9A93EE3 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:38:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Na1lp021646; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:36:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NZFlp021626 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:35:17 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az2NL-0001IT-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:35:35 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040304233535.GD4842@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] linuxgazette.net is down again Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:35:35 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 427 Lines: 11 Looks like a bunch of zombied httpd processes again. Dammit, has somebody found a new way to crash Apache, or is Kayos doing something odd to it? * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CFE93ED0 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:43:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Nf1lp000728; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:41:01 -0500 Received: from web41101.mail.yahoo.com (web41101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i24NeSlp000722 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:40:28 -0500 Message-ID: <20040304234028.46763.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.43.99.173] by web41101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:40:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] linuxgazette.net is down again To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040304233535.GD4842@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:40:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1134 Lines: 39 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > Looks like a bunch of zombied httpd processes again. Dammit, has > somebody found a new way to crash Apache, or is Kayos doing something > odd to it? Well, my world domination plan failed again -- damn it! Seriously, he might want to consider increasing the number of client requests to apache. I have known it crash when it reaches this limit. MaxClients 150 (from /etc/apache/httpd.conf) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 15:53:07 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6405A3ED0 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:50:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24Nm3lp011401; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:48:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i24NlDlp006317 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:47:18 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Az2Yk-0001KK-00 for ; Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:47:22 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] linuxgazette.net is down again Message-ID: <20040304234722.GA5073@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040304233535.GD4842@callahans.org> <20040304234028.46763.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040304234028.46763.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:47:22 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 997 Lines: 31 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 11:40:28PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Looks like a bunch of zombied httpd processes again. Dammit, has > > somebody found a new way to crash Apache, or is Kayos doing something > > odd to it? > > Well, my world domination plan failed again -- damn it! > > Seriously, he might want to consider increasing the number of client > requests to apache. I have known it crash when it reaches this limit. > > MaxClients 150 > > (from /etc/apache/httpd.conf) Hmm... [ben@genetikayos ben]$ ps ax|grep -c httpd 153 Well done, Thomas! Yeah, we might want to let Kayos know. Altough why it would be running 150 instances of httpd is beyond me. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 19:11:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BA113EC8 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i250E1lp002584; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:14:01 -0500 Received: from smtp2.sea.theriver.com (smtp2.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i250DBlp002563 for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:13:13 -0500 Received: (qmail 11744 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2004 00:13:10 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp2.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2004 00:13:10 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 18BCEE1FBC; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: "T.R. Fullhart (Kayos)" Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Message-ID: <20040305001309.GA22812@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Subject: [TAG] Help from The Answer Gang Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:13:09 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1537 Lines: 48 ----- Forwarded message from Ben Okopnik ----- From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] linuxgazette.net is down again Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:47:22 -0500 On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 11:40:28PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Looks like a bunch of zombied httpd processes again. Dammit, has > > somebody found a new way to crash Apache, or is Kayos doing something > > odd to it? > > Well, my world domination plan failed again -- damn it! > > Seriously, he might want to consider increasing the number of client > requests to apache. I have known it crash when it reaches this limit. > > MaxClients 150 > > (from /etc/apache/httpd.conf) Hmm... [ben@genetikayos ben]$ ps ax|grep -c httpd 153 Well done, Thomas! Yeah, we might want to let Kayos know. Altough why it would be running 150 instances of httpd is beyond me. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag ----- End forwarded message ----- -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 4 19:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 04 Mar 2004 19:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8922D3EEE for ; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252X2lp010740; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:33:02 -0500 Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i252Wclp010734; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:32:38 -0500 From: "T.R. Fullhart" To: mso@oz.net Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Message-Id: <20040305023121.M88060@genetikayos.com> In-Reply-To: <20040305001309.GA22812@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040305001309.GA22812@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-Mailer: Open WebMail 2.10 20030617 X-OriginatingIP: 67.127.57.61 (kayos) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Subject: [TAG] Re: Help from The Answer Gang Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:32:38 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 874 Lines: 27 On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:13:09 -0800, Mike Orr wrote > On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 11:40:28PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Seriously, he might want to consider increasing the number of client > > requests to apache. I have known it crash when it reaches this limit. > > > > MaxClients 150 > > > > [ben@genetikayos ben]$ ps ax|grep -c httpd > 153 > > Well done, Thomas! Yeah, we might want to let Kayos know. Altough > why it would be running 150 instances of httpd is beyond me. I think there is some kind of CGI or apache module that is hanging. I increased it to 300, but I don't think that is a real solution. I'll continue trying to figure it out. -- T.R. Fullhart kayos@genetikayos.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sat Mar 6 03:47:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 06 Mar 2004 03:47:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70FAB4032 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i25H72lp030391; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:07:02 -0500 Received: from smtp3.sea.theriver.com (smtp3.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i25H6nlp030386 for ; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:06:49 -0500 Received: (qmail 4743 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2004 17:06:48 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp3.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 5 Mar 2004 17:06:48 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B7BC6E1F9C; Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:06:47 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Message-ID: <20040305170647.GA28376@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Subject: [TAG] Nasty virus Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:06:47 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 1522 Lines: 49 There's been a particularly clever virus going around the past day. It somehow chooses the From: address to be familiar, and the body message to match the nature of the list. I'm not sure if it picks a From: address with the same name as the To: address or what. The two that hit tag today have pretty generic messages: Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:52:39 +0530 From: gazette@linuxgazette.net To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] warning stuff about you? --- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:40:59 +0530 From: gazette@linuxgazette.net To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] fake something is going wrong! --- But one that showed up on a work list yesterday had an amazingly customized messages that could have fooled a customer: --- Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:48:53 -0800 From: staff@patientwire.com To: FAAOsales@patientwire.com Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account. Dear user of Patientwire.com, Our main mailing server will be temporary unavaible for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you have to configure our free auto-forwarding service. For details see the attach. Cheers, The Patientwire.com team http://www.patientwire.com Attachments: application/octet-stream; name="Document.pif" --- -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:11:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E27BD3EC9 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26Je3lp006680; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:40:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i26Jdblp006639 for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:39:39 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1AzheP-0000Tc-00 for ; Sat, 06 Mar 2004 14:39:57 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Nasty virus Message-ID: <20040306193957.GB1697@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040305170647.GA28376@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040305170647.GA28376@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:39:57 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 2277 Lines: 58 On Fri, Mar 05, 2004 at 09:06:47AM -0800, Mike Orr wrote: > There's been a particularly clever virus going around the past day. > It somehow chooses the From: address to be familiar, and the body > message to match the nature of the list. I'm not sure if it picks > a From: address with the same name as the To: address or what. The > two that hit tag today have pretty generic messages: > > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 17:52:39 +0530 > From: gazette@linuxgazette.net > To: tag@linuxgazette.net > Subject: [TAG] warning > > stuff about you? > > --- > Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:40:59 +0530 > From: gazette@linuxgazette.net > To: tag@linuxgazette.net > Subject: [TAG] fake > > something is going wrong! > > --- I've actually seen a bit of how this thing works due to having private and other list-relevant addresses for several lists. What it looks like is that it gets hold of an addressbook and then does some sort of permutations on the address list - perhaps matching domains as you mention (which is a fairly clever trick, if you think about it - it "works" in both directions.) > But one that showed up on a work list yesterday had an amazingly > customized messages that could have fooled a customer: > > --- > Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:48:53 -0800 > From: staff@patientwire.com > To: FAAOsales@patientwire.com > Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account. > > Dear user of Patientwire.com, Our main mailing server will be temporary > unavaible for next two days, to continue receiving mail in these days you > have to configure our free auto-forwarding service. For details see the > attach. Cheers, The Patientwire.com team http://www.patientwire.com Yup. Nothing technically difficult about it once you have the domain name, but it is a jump in spammer sophistication - just another indication of the "arms race" engendered by Bayesian filters and such. I'm not sure of what the next step in fighting spam is going to be, but that one is rapidly heading toward a dead end. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3AB23FA0 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:17:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28AE2lp007544; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:14:02 -0500 Received: from lmbounce01.st1.spray.net (lmbounce01.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.63]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28ADilp007539 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:13:44 -0500 Received: from lmdeliver02.st1.spray.net (lmdeliver02.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.115]) by lmbounce01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B16E9CC0B3A for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:39:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from lmfilto02.st1.spray.net (lmfilto02 [212.78.202.66]) by lmdeliver02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080031FB03 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:38:28 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lmfilto02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77B0C81C for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:38:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from lmcodec03.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.147]) by localhost (lmfilto02.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07650-05 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:38:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from lmcodec03.st1.spray.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lmcodec03.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A0B421C085 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:38:27 +0100 (MET) From: "Ashwin N." To: References: <20040305170647.GA28376@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> Subject: Re:[OT] [TAG] Nasty virus X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-Id: <20040308083827.A0B421C085@lmcodec03.st1.spray.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at spray.net Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:10:59 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 752 Lines: 24 Mike Orr wrote: > There's been a particularly clever virus going around the past day. > It somehow chooses the From: address to be familiar, and the body > message to match the nature of the list. Looks like the W32.Beagle virus. This particular massmailing worm is very clever in it's social engineering aspects (the From: address, the Subject and the body). Also, I liked (!) the way it traps the trust of the user by asking him to enter a password to free itself. More details on the virus here - http://www.sarc.com/avcenter/venc/data/w32.beagle.j@mm.html ~ash -- Ashwin N. http://ash.webhop.net/ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:11:47 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749D63F69 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:10:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27F81lp010013; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:08:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27F7rlp010007 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:07:56 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1Azzsx-0001cU-00 for ; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 10:08:11 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040307150811.GA6189@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] UnASKing the spam question Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 10:08:11 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 924 Lines: 21 Well, after a day of running this ASK challenge-response gadget, I'm giving up on it. [sigh] Guess I have to keep searching for other solutions. Part of the problem is the stuff that's mentioned on Rick's site in the challenge-response discussion; there are several negative aspects to it, and although most of them don't apply to my situation, some do. Another part is that for every blocked spam, I get a "Message frozen: mailbox unavailable" from Exim - this is *not* an improvement. Ah well... at least now I know it for myself. There's nothing quite like diving head-first into a pond to find out if there are rocks beneath the surface. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:11:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DB13EBA for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27Jx1lp008573; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:59:01 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.COM [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27Jwllq008566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:58:47 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B04QA-0007Ku-LP by authid for ; Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:58:46 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] UnASKing the spam question Message-ID: <20040307195846.GG17965@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040307150811.GA6189@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040307150811.GA6189@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:58:46 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 1934 Lines: 54 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Well, after a day of running this ASK challenge-response gadget, I'm > giving up on it. [sigh] Guess I have to keep searching for other > solutions. > > Part of the problem is the stuff that's mentioned on Rick's site in the > challenge-response discussion; there are several negative aspects to it, > and although most of them don't apply to my situation, some do. Another > part is that for every blocked spam, I get a "Message frozen: mailbox > unavailable" from Exim - this is *not* an improvement. Ah, I'd forgotten I had a mirror of Karsten Self's FAQ on the subject. I've just fetched a newer copy -- since he tends to refine his essays over time -- and notice it now sports (among other things) a Hall of Shame section at the bottom. Guess what's its one entry so far? ;-> Hall of Shame The following are some C-R systems known to behave poorly. Rules for matching the challenge messages are included. Active Spam Killer (ASK) Author: Marco Paganini Identifier: Contains the header: "X-AskVersion: 2.2 (http://www.paganini.net/ask)". A wildcard match on "X-AskVersion" should be sufficient. Response:: reply w/o modifications. Faults: Sends challenges to innocent third-parties as a result of spoofed headers Karsten appears to have substantially improved his essay -- and I've taken the liberty of adding a set of hyperlinks for further information at the bottom. > Ah well... at least now I know it for myself. There's nothing quite like > diving head-first into a pond to find out if there are rocks beneath the > surface. Sorry to hear. -- Cheers, "Linux means never having to delete your love mail." Rick Moen -- Don Marti rick@linuxmafia.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:11:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C4103F73 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:23:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27KL2lp010291; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:21:02 -0500 Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i27KKBlp010263 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:20:11 -0500 Received: from sherlock ([68.13.239.232]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040307202011.KDHB24099.lakemtao05.cox.net@sherlock> for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:20:11 -0500 Message-ID: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock> From: "Jon Aldrich" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Subject: [TAG] Dedicated Linux application Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:19:49 -0600 Status: RO Content-Length: 996 Lines: 31 I am in the process of developing a linux app (for gaming). I want the final product to reside on a linux box that, after booting, automatically runs the application. What is the preferred method for doing this? 1) An 'auto login' for a special user on one of the system consoles, who's user profile starts the application. 2) Start the app with an inittab entry. 3) Something else? The app will produce graphics output and get user input, so it can't run as just a backgroud type daemon. It will run on a secure, dedicated network Is there an info source or HOWTO for this sort of "bringing to market, implementation" kind of topic? One other small question. Is it possible to display a flash screen of some sort during the boot sequence and pipe the boot data to the bit bucket? Sort of a "boot -quiet" option. TIA, Jon Aldrich jonald@ionet.net _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 922DA3E95 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:34:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280W2lp007354; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:32:02 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280VElp001707 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:31:15 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B08fo-0006WW-00 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 06:01:12 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i280VBQY003520 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:01:11 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:01:06 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Dedicated Linux application Message-ID: <20040308003106.GA10963@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: tag@linuxgazette.net References: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 06:01:06 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 851 Lines: 27 Hello, On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 02:19:49PM -0600, Jon Aldrich wrote: > I am in the process of developing a linux app (for gaming). I want the > final product to reside on a linux box that, after booting, automatically > runs the application. What is the preferred method for doing this? > > 3) Something else? One of the lesser known methods. An "@reboot" entry in the crontab. This will start a program just after "crond" is started. > One other small question. Is it possible to display a flash screen of some > sort during the boot sequence and pipe the boot data to the bit bucket? > Sort of a "boot -quiet" option. I think there is a "bootsplash" patch to the kernel that does this. Regards, Kapil. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6160A3F88 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:42:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281e2lp010807; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:40:02 -0500 Received: from web41112.mail.yahoo.com (web41112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.28]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i281d7lp010784 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:39:07 -0500 Message-ID: <20040308013907.51678.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 01:39:07 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Dedicated Linux application To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040308003106.GA10963@imsc.res.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:39:07 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1269 Lines: 41 --- Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > One of the lesser known methods. An "@reboot" entry in the crontab. This > will start a program just after "crond" is started. Not unless you have read: 'man 5 crontab', it isn't!! > > One other small question. Is it possible to display a flash screen of > some > > sort during the boot sequence and pipe the boot data to the bit > bucket? > > Sort of a "boot -quiet" option. > > I think there is a "bootsplash" patch to the kernel that does this. I think Jon was referring specifically to his game's flashscreen. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DE83EF7 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 16:39:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280b1lp007420; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:37:01 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i280a7lp007415 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:36:07 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i280XoG25799 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:33:50 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Dedicated Linux application Message-ID: <20040307193349.A23530@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock>; from Jon Aldrich on Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 02:19:49PM -0600 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:33:49 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1508 Lines: 37 On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 02:19:49PM -0600, Jon Aldrich wrote: > I am in the process of developing a linux app (for gaming). I want the > final product to reside on a linux box that, after booting, automatically > runs the application. What is the preferred method for doing this? > > 1) An 'auto login' for a special user on one of the system consoles, who's > user profile starts the application. > > 2) Start the app with an inittab entry. > > 3) Something else? > > The app will produce graphics output and get user input, so it can't run as > just a backgroud type daemon. It will run on a secure, dedicated network You'll get lots of opinions, I suspect, but mine is 'put it in inittab'. That and (optionally) an sshd should be about it: you should know *everything* that's running in a ps, in this kind of environment. Make sure the bios boots the HD (/flash image) and nothing else, and is passworded. Yes, even if there isn't a hardware keyboard. Think multiple layers of security. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FC223F7F for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:39:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281a2lp010741; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:36:02 -0500 Received: from web41111.mail.yahoo.com (web41111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i281Zmlp010736 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:35:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20040308013538.2782.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 01:35:38 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Dedicated Linux application To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: jonald@ionet.net In-Reply-To: <014a01c40481$8ad25930$1208a8c0@sherlock> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:35:38 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2616 Lines: 85 --- Jon Aldrich wrote: > I am in the process of developing a linux app (for gaming). I want the > final product to reside on a linux box that, after booting, > automatically > runs the application. What is the preferred method for doing this? You don't even say whether it is a graphical or console (text) based game. > 1) An 'auto login' for a special user on one of the system consoles, > who's > user profile starts the application. You could add something like this to the user's ~/.bashrc ``` [ $(tail -n2 ~/.xsession) = "the_name_of_my_game" ] && { startx & } ''' which says that if the penultimate line starts with your game program name then launch X, otherwise don't bother. Why the penultimate line? Because the last line in ~/.xsession is ALWAYS an "exec call" to your window manager. > 2) Start the app with an inittab entry. No. Doing this is deprecated and will cause all kinds of weird errors. What happens say, if X crashes? Each time X tries to start (based on the run-level X starts in) the game will also try to load, and so you get a feedback loop. In the case od Debian, X is started throughout runlevels 2-5. > 3) Something else? I would just have it launched from within the user's ~/.xsession file (see above). > The app will produce graphics output and get user input, so it can't run > as > just a backgroud type daemon. It will run on a secure, dedicated network The user will have to launch it though. > Is there an info source or HOWTO for this sort of "bringing to market, > implementation" kind of topic? Not that I know of. > One other small question. Is it possible to display a flash screen of > some > sort during the boot sequence and pipe the boot data to the bit bucket? > Sort of a "boot -quiet" option. You as a programmer ought to know that one! Again, unless we know what language you have implemented it in, how can we help you? -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7703F81 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281m2lp027715; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:48:02 -0500 Received: from smaug.gutenpress.org ([12.44.218.240]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281lElp027709 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:47:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (pool-057.ipro.net [68.216.92.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smaug.gutenpress.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02FAF21142 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:46:21 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Johnson To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <1078710405.8196.26.camel@poo.home.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] Re: [LG 100] 2c Tips #2 Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: sean@gutenpress.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 20:46:45 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 323 Lines: 13 While it might be overkill for your situation, this is a perfect place to use cfengine ( http://www.cfengine.org ). Perhaps I should write up an article for Linux Gazette? :) Cheers, Sean _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:06 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E55433EBA for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:54:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i281q1lp027759; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:52:01 -0500 Received: from web41106.mail.yahoo.com (web41106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.22]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i281pPlp027754 for ; Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:51:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20040308015124.32446.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 01:51:24 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Re: [LG 100] 2c Tips #2 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: sean@gutenpress.org In-Reply-To: <1078710405.8196.26.camel@poo.home.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 01:51:24 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1067 Lines: 36 --- Sean Johnson wrote: > While it might be overkill for your situation, this is a perfect place > to use cfengine ( http://www.cfengine.org ). > > Perhaps I should write up an article for Linux Gazette? :) You're more than welcome to do so. Author submission guidelines can be found in the FAQ, found here: http://linuxgazette.net/faq/author.html -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from web41213.mail.yahoo.com (web41213.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.46]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1671A3FA2 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:21:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20040308101852.8608.qmail@web41213.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.73.168.135] by web41213.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 02:18:52 PST Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:18:52 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bechtel Subject: My sig, and Linux Gazette... :) To: carla@bratgrrl.com Cc: star@starshine.org, tag-kb@linuxgazette.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Status: RO Content-Length: 1304 Lines: 34 re: http://linuxgazette.net/100/lg_mail.html --Glad you liked my .sig. :) I have fond feelings for the original Muppets, including the Sesame Street ones. Even have some mpeg's of them, such as two aliens and a hippie singing "Manomonot" on the Muppet Show, as well as the Intro to the Fraggle Rock show -- in Swedish (I think - it's called "Fragglarna".) --IIRC, I saw a similar 1337 .sig on Slashdot or somewhere a few years ago, and adapted it for the Muppets. I got a real charge out of seeing it posted in LG.Net (twice now, no less!) and the response it generated. LOL. ;-) (You have my permission to publish this letter or share with LG.Net colleagues if you see fit.) Best wishes. (And LG, please tell Thomas Adam I'm sorry for being so short with him. I was going through a bad time, and ended up having to move in order to get away from the situation.) ===== Contents above ThisLine (C)ThisYear KingNeutron Ltd. ===== Check out KNOPPIX Debian/Linux 700MB Live CD: ===== http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-old-en.html "C00K13 M0N573R 0WNZ J00!! PH34R C00K13 M0N573R 4ND 0SC4R 4ND 3LM0 4ND 5NUFFL3UP46U5 4ND 7H3 31337 535AM3 57R337 CR3W!!" .dotgoeshere. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com From star Tue Mar 9 16:12:33 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0473F81 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:13:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28GA1lp026566; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:10:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i28G9Jlp026547 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:09:21 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0NK0-0001fr-00 for ; Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:09:40 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040308160940.GD5772@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] [kingneutron@yahoo.com: My sig, and Linux Gazette... :)] Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:09:40 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1768 Lines: 50 Forwarded from "tag-kb". ----- Forwarded message from Dave Bechtel ----- Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 02:18:52 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Bechtel Subject: My sig, and Linux Gazette... :) To: carla@bratgrrl.com Cc: star@starshine.org, tag-kb@linuxgazette.net re: http://linuxgazette.net/100/lg_mail.html --Glad you liked my .sig. :) I have fond feelings for the original Muppets, including the Sesame Street ones. Even have some mpeg's of them, such as two aliens and a hippie singing "Manomonot" on the Muppet Show, as well as the Intro to the Fraggle Rock show -- in Swedish (I think - it's called "Fragglarna".) --IIRC, I saw a similar 1337 .sig on Slashdot or somewhere a few years ago, and adapted it for the Muppets. I got a real charge out of seeing it posted in LG.Net (twice now, no less!) and the response it generated. LOL. ;-) (You have my permission to publish this letter or share with LG.Net colleagues if you see fit.) Best wishes. (And LG, please tell Thomas Adam I'm sorry for being so short with him. I was going through a bad time, and ended up having to move in order to get away from the situation.) ===== Contents above ThisLine (C)ThisYear KingNeutron Ltd. ===== Check out KNOPPIX Debian/Linux 700MB Live CD: ===== http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-old-en.html "C00K13 M0N573R 0WNZ J00!! PH34R C00K13 M0N573R 4ND 0SC4R 4ND 3LM0 4ND 5NUFFL3UP46U5 4ND 7H3 31337 535AM3 57R337 CR3W!!" .dotgoeshere. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster http://search.yahoo.com ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9E043E2D for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294V4lp028781; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:31:06 -0500 Received: from nightshade.noc.ucla.edu (nightshade.noc.ucla.edu [169.232.48.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i294Ujlp026087 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:30:46 -0500 Received: from orchid.noc.ucla.edu (orchid.noc.ucla.edu [169.232.48.12]) by nightshade.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i294UiPO032440 for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:30:44 -0800 Received: from dean (s118-18.resnet.ucla.edu [169.232.118.18]) (authenticated bits=0) by orchid.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i294Ud0U002388 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:30:44 -0800 Message-ID: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> From: "Dean A. Gransar" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C4054C.3BB1D4E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Probable-Spam: no X-Spam-Hits: -3.9 X-Scanned-By: vscan.smtp.ucla.edu Subject: [TAG] which distribution? Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 20:30:44 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 4992 Lines: 124 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C4054C.3BB1D4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi. I am greatly interested in installing Linux. I have set a aside a = partition for months but it wasn't untill I attended a workshop that I realized it is much = easier to use=20 linux (with the graphic interface) than I had thought. So I did a = research and found two softwares that have great support, services, and information online: = Red Hat and Debian. Yet I could not make up my mind which one to choose. I am a = philosophy major and computer writing is not my strenghth so I didn't know which = one to choose.=20 I thought if i give you my concerns you would tell me which one is right = for me so=20 my dream of bieng in charge of my computer comes throught. I am not a = great fan of graphic interface and i hope that by reading into linux, taking = classes, and asking questions i can learn to work with the kernal and program myself.=20 My concerns are: I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to have = the most) I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most = support online) I want the program to access the part of my computer that is monopolized = by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows have xp) because there are files in that territory that i could use. I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does alot = of control and takes the absolute freedom) and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. I know becuase of lack of my computer knowledge it seems that Im asking = for=20 something impossbile. However I hope you'd kindly respond to it. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C4054C.3BB1D4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi.
I am greatly interested in installing = Linux. I=20 have set a aside a partition for months
but it wasn't untill I attended a = workshop that I=20 realized it is much easier to use
linux (with the graphic interface) than = I had=20 thought. So I did a research and found
two softwares that have great support, = services,=20 and information online: Red Hat
and Debian. Yet I could not make up my = mind which=20 one to choose. I am a philosophy
major and computer writing is not my = strenghth so I=20 didn't know which one to choose.
I thought if i give you my concerns you = would tell=20 me which one is right for me so
my dream of bieng in charge of my = computer comes=20 throught. I am not a great fan
of graphic interface and i hope that by = reading=20 into linux, taking classes, and asking
questions i can learn to work with the = kernal and=20 program myself.
 
My concerns are:
I want the distribution to have a lot = of packages=20 (debian seems to have the most)
I want the distribuiton to have to most = support=20 (red hat has the most support online)
I want the program to access the = part of my=20 computer that is monopolized by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows = have=20 xp)
because there are files in that = territory that i=20 could use.
I want the program to give the most = freedom (it=20 seems red hat does alot of control and takes the absolute = freedom)
and at the end be a good operating = system for a=20 graphic designer.
 
I know becuase of lack of my computer = knowledge it=20 seems that Im asking for
something impossbile. However I = hope you'd=20 kindly respond to it.
------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C4054C.3BB1D4E0-- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033EA3C86 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 02:56:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Ar2lp009074; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:53:02 -0500 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Aq4lp009069 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:52:05 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040309105111.ETTF27661.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com> for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:51:11 +0000 Received: from popey.com (www-data@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i29AoVwZ007404 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:31 GMT Received: (from www-data@localhost) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id i29AoUOt007402; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:30 GMT From: Alan Pope X-Authentication-Warning: popey.com: www-data set sender to alan@popey.com using -f Received: from proxy30.sap-ag.de ([194.39.131.39]) (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user alan); by www.popey.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:30 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:50:30 -0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1993 Lines: 54 Hello. > My concerns are: > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to have > the most) Thats not necessarily so. You can download the source to just about everything and compile it on any distribution. Debian does have a lot of debs, and redhat has a lot of RPMs.. > I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most > support online) Haha! Are you sure about that? The fact that RedHat don't support RedHat desktop distributions any more may change that slightly. Also, it depends where you look for your support. I tend to use IRC ( irc.blitzed org #hants channel ) and a lot more people there run Debian than RedHat. So I find there's more support for Debian.. > I want the program to access the part of my computer that is monopolized > by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows have xp) They can both mount "windows partitions". No contest there. > because there are files in that territory that i could use. > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does alot of > control and takes the absolute freedom) > and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. > To be honest, for the beginner in Linux I used to say "use redhat", now I say "persevere and use debian". A lot of people like Mandrake, Suse or Fedora on the desktop. You'll never get a straight answer to this question out of anyone. Too many people are "religious" about the distribution they use :D Good luck though. My vote: Debian. I use it on 2 desktops, 3 laptops and 2 servers. No problem. I used to run RedHat, but find debian miles better. > I know becuase of lack of my computer knowledge it seems that Im asking > for > something impossbile. However I hope you'd kindly respond to it. If you get any problems, feel free to drop another mail to the TAG, they like tricky ones :D Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:18 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EDD23E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 03:19:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29BG3lp004885; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:16:03 -0500 Received: from postoffice.1stConnect.com (mail.weguardyou.com [208.255.92.10]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29BFQlq030536 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:15:27 -0500 Received: from saturn.earth (unverified [63.155.60.8]) by postoffice.1stConnect.com (Vircom SMTPRS 3.0.273) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:15:52 -0500 Received: from saturn.earth (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by saturn.earth (8.12.7/8.12.7/SuSE Linux 0.6) with ESMTP id i29BLIjk001497 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:21:29 -0600 Received: (from chris@localhost) by saturn.earth (8.12.7/8.12.7/Submit) id i29BLIUr001496 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:21:18 -0600 From: Chris Gianakopoulos To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040309112118.GA1438@saturn.earth> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 05:21:18 -0600 Status: O Content-Length: 2404 Lines: 65 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:50:30AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > Hello. > > > My concerns are: > > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to have > > the most) > > Thats not necessarily so. You can download the source to just about > everything and compile it on any distribution. Debian does have a lot of > debs, and redhat has a lot of RPMs.. > > > I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most > > support online) > > Haha! Are you sure about that? The fact that RedHat don't support RedHat > desktop distributions any more may change that slightly. Also, it depends > where you look for your support. I tend to use IRC ( irc.blitzed org > #hants channel ) and a lot more people there run Debian than RedHat. So I > find there's more support for Debian.. > > > I want the program to access the part of my computer that is monopolized > > by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows have xp) > > They can both mount "windows partitions". No contest there. > > > because there are files in that territory that i could use. > > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does alot of > > control and takes the absolute freedom) > > and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. > > > > To be honest, for the beginner in Linux I used to say "use redhat", now I > say "persevere and use debian". A lot of people like Mandrake, Suse or > Fedora on the desktop. > > You'll never get a straight answer to this question out of anyone. Too > many people are "religious" about the distribution they use :D Good luck > though. > Yea, I'm still a SuSE user (lots software with them too), but I agree that Debian is a good one too. Chris G. > My vote: Debian. I use it on 2 desktops, 3 laptops and 2 servers. No > problem. I used to run RedHat, but find debian miles better. > > > I know becuase of lack of my computer knowledge it seems that Im asking > > for > > something impossbile. However I hope you'd kindly respond to it. > > If you get any problems, feel free to drop another mail to the TAG, they > like tricky ones :D > > Cheers, > Al. > _______________________________________________ > TAG mailing list > TAG@linuxgazette.net > http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD65D3E55 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 03:53:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Bo2lp012114; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:50:02 -0500 Received: from web41111.mail.yahoo.com (web41111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29BnKlp012097 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:49:21 -0500 Message-ID: <20040309114920.32716.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:49:20 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:49:20 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 3686 Lines: 96 --- Alan Pope wrote: [ ** adding querent back on the CC list -- Alan, ensure you reply_all, and add the querent's e-mail address back in, if need be. ** ] > Hello. > > > My concerns are: > > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to > have > > the most) > > Thats not necessarily so. You can download the source to just about > everything and compile it on any distribution. Debian does have a lot of > debs, and redhat has a lot of RPMs.. Back when I started (heh), I ran SuSE as my main distribution of choice -- that did, and still does ship with about 7CDs full of useful software half of which the 'average' user has no need for, but is still interesting nevertheless. > > I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most > > support online) > > Haha! Are you sure about that? The fact that RedHat don't support RedHat > desktop distributions any more may change that slightly. Also, it > depends > where you look for your support. I tend to use IRC ( irc.blitzed org > #hants channel ) and a lot more people there run Debian than RedHat. So > I > find there's more support for Debian.. Only because the people in that IRC channel are oddballs ;). Asking this kind of question is _always_ result in a bias towards the distribution being run by the person answering the question. The best answer you could want for yourself is to try out several distributions for yourself, and weigh out their differences. What you'll find is that they're all more-or-less the same (discount slackware, that is more BSD-ish in operation) both with their disk layout (yay for LSB) and with the programs that they offer. For instance, Mandrake/Fedora (the successor to RH) use their empahsis towards the GUI, and hence offer lots of packages and setups to that goal. SuSE do this to an extent as well. Despite what people may tell you, Debian is NO longer a distribution for those that "know what their doing". Yes, had you have asked me that about six years ago I might have said that. But things are getting much easier for Debian -- the user support is growing and it is finally getting good recognition by a wide-range of people. > > I want the program to access the part of my computer that is > monopolized > > by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows have xp) > > They can both mount "windows partitions". No contest there. To further extend that, you can use WINE (http://www.winehq.com). > > because there are files in that territory that i could use. > > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does > alot of > > control and takes the absolute freedom) > > and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. If you want to give things a try, I suggest you download and create for yourself a Knoppix CD (http://www.knoppix.com), which is handy both as a live CD as to what you *can* do with your computer, but also as a backup CD for when things go, errm, wrong. Hope That Helps, -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E73B3CD9 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:32:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29ET2lp020002; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:29:02 -0500 Received: from secure12.globalwebhost.com (secure12.globalwebhost.com [63.210.101.12]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29ES6lq019983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:28:06 -0500 Received: from host190.pass-seymour.com ([12.33.96.190] helo=bray.wattstopper.com) by secure12.globalwebhost.com with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.24) id 1B0iDD-0000p0-LF for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 08:28:04 -0600 From: Richard Bray To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <20040309114920.32716.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040309114920.32716.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403090827.57826.linx@brayra.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure12.globalwebhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - linuxgazette.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brayra.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:27:57 -0600 Status: O Content-Length: 1950 Lines: 43 On Tue March 09 2004 05:49, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Alan Pope wrote: > > What you'll find is that they're all more-or-less the same (discount > slackware, that is more BSD-ish in operation) both with their disk layout > (yay for LSB) and with the programs that they offer. For instance, > Mandrake/Fedora (the successor to RH) use their empahsis towards the GUI, > and hence offer lots of packages and setups to that goal. SuSE do this to > an extent as well. I disagree. The one feature that differentiates the distros for the new user is the control panel like programs to setup the machine. I haven't seen SUSE's most recent version but I hear they finally surpassed Mandrake in ease of configuration post install. All the distros seem to be easy to install now. Debian included, if you use something like KNOPPIX to install. It's configuring printers, mice, firewalls, and other system services after the install where most distros fail. Red Hat is probably the worst. If they offer a control panel, it's horribly handicapped. The firewall config is the best example. > If you want to give things a try, I suggest you download and create for > yourself a Knoppix CD (http://www.knoppix.com), which is handy both as a > live CD as to what you *can* do with your computer, but also as a backup > CD for when things go, errm, wrong. > I agree about KNOPPIX. Everyone should have that laying around even if they do not want to run linux. The Windows administrators at my company use it to rescue dead Windows boxes now. They can boot KNOPPIX and copy the important files off the machine onto a backup server before re-installing Windows to repair it. :) Someday they will get smart and just put it on the hard drive in stead. -- Richard A. Bray linux@brayra.com http://brayra.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E3383E7D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Eh1lp004538; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:43:01 -0500 Received: from web41114.mail.yahoo.com (web41114.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.30]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29EgQlp004525 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:42:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20040309144225.41410.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41114.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:42:25 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, linx@brayra.com Cc: Gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <200403090827.57826.linx@brayra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:42:25 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1819 Lines: 52 --- Richard Bray wrote: > I disagree. The one feature that differentiates the distros for the new > user > is the control panel like programs to setup the machine. I haven't seen > SUSE's most recent version but I hear they finally surpassed Mandrake in > ease > of configuration post install. I disagree -- the 'setup' of a machine is actually the same (more or less) on each distribution. You are referring to the GUI differences which in themselves are built *on-top* of text configuration files. It is *this* which is common throughout. What changes is merely the location of these. As far as ease is concerned, that is a relative process, since some may find one thing more easier than others. SuSE use YaST (which among other phrases stands for: 'Yet Another Setup Tool'). This is both grahical and text-based. > All the distros seem to be easy to install now. Debian included, if you > use > something like KNOPPIX to install. It's configuring printers, mice, Why Knoppix to install Debian? If you're trying to play the command-line installers v GUI-installer game. Forget it. [..snip..] -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A393E75 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:11:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29F81lp006208; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:08:01 -0500 Received: from secure12.globalwebhost.com (secure12.globalwebhost.com [63.210.101.12]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29F7llq006194 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:07:47 -0500 Received: from host190.pass-seymour.com ([12.33.96.190] helo=bray.wattstopper.com) by secure12.globalwebhost.com with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.24) id 1B0ipb-0003Ue-Py; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:07:44 -0600 From: Richard Bray To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Thomas Adam Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 Cc: Gransar@ucla.edu References: <20040309144225.41410.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040309144225.41410.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403090907.38737.linx@brayra.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure12.globalwebhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - linuxgazette.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brayra.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:07:38 -0600 Status: O Content-Length: 2996 Lines: 78 I think my point is for the computer neophyte that doesn't know a thing about command lines. Like my dad. He can install SUSE and configure it without calling me much. Because he has already done Windows. Not that I want linux to look like Windows. I am just looking for the easiest transition distro for those with that experience. So, a gui can matter. An example would be a member of our local lug. He installed open source software on his parent's Windows machine. OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird. He got a ton of suport calls from his parents. Then one day he decided to rename everything to the name of the Microsoft software. i.e. he named Firefox, Internet Explorer. Then the calls stopped. His parents don't have any more problems. It may seem like a simple thing. But the proof is out there. I understand the command line works. I use it myself. On Tue March 09 2004 08:42, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Richard Bray wrote: > > I disagree. The one feature that differentiates the distros for the new > > user > > is the control panel like programs to setup the machine. I haven't seen > > SUSE's most recent version but I hear they finally surpassed Mandrake in > > ease > > of configuration post install. > > I disagree -- the 'setup' of a machine is actually the same (more or less) > on each distribution. You are referring to the GUI differences which in > themselves are built *on-top* of text configuration files. It is *this* > which is common throughout. What changes is merely the location of these. > As far as ease is concerned, that is a relative process, since some may > find one thing more easier than others. > > SuSE use YaST (which among other phrases stands for: 'Yet Another Setup > Tool'). This is both grahical and text-based. > > > All the distros seem to be easy to install now. Debian included, if you > > use > > something like KNOPPIX to install. It's configuring printers, mice, > > Why Knoppix to install Debian? If you're trying to play the command-line > installers v GUI-installer game. Forget it. > > [..snip..] > > -- Thomas Adam > > ===== > "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net > "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net > > " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish > you for all of them at once when you get better. The > experience will probably kill you. :)" > > -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" > your friends today! Download Messenger Now > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html > _______________________________________________ > TAG mailing list > TAG@linuxgazette.net > http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag -- Richard A. Bray linux@brayra.com http://brayra.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188B73E75 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:14:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FB1lp006265; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:11:01 -0500 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FAplp006260 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:10:52 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040309151054.QJMJ25572.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com>; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:10:54 +0000 Received: from popey.com (www-data@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i29F9JwZ011208; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:19 GMT Received: (from www-data@localhost) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id i29F9IXX011206; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:18 GMT From: Alan Pope X-Authentication-Warning: popey.com: www-data set sender to alan@popey.com using -f Received: from proxy10.sap-ag.de ([194.39.131.40]) (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user alan); by www.popey.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:18 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <42658.194.39.131.40.1078844958.squirrel@194.39.131.40> In-Reply-To: <20040309144225.41410.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> References: <200403090827.57826.linx@brayra.com> <20040309144225.41410.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:18 -0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 4060 Lines: 89 >> I disagree. The one feature that differentiates the distros for the new >> user >> is the control panel like programs to setup the machine. I haven't seen >> SUSE's most recent version but I hear they finally surpassed Mandrake in >> ease >> of configuration post install. > > I disagree -- the 'setup' of a machine is actually the same (more or less) > on each distribution. You are referring to the GUI differences which in > themselves are built *on-top* of text configuration files. It is *this* > which is common throughout. What changes is merely the location of these. > As far as ease is concerned, that is a relative process, since some may > find one thing more easier than others. > Umm, forgive me, but he did say "for the new user is the control panel like programs". For which I completely agree. I am a self confessed geek who doesn't have a problem with editing text files, but my wife wouldn't like or want to do that. To setup the system for me, I'd just hack around te relavent configuration files, but for her, she'd want something pretty, functional and easy to use. That's a major problem with most linux distributions IMO, the lack of a decent *graphical* easy to use tool for configuration purposes. I recently installed KDE on my debian system and noted that it has a printer config wizard, which looks nicer and feels more robust than the CUPS system its sat on. Doesn't mean *I'll* use it, but wifey might. >> All the distros seem to be easy to install now. Debian included, if you >> use >> something like KNOPPIX to install. It's configuring printers, mice, > > Why Knoppix to install Debian? If you're trying to play the command-line > installers v GUI-installer game. Forget it. > Harsh. Knoppix is easier to install than plain debian. [FACT]. No disputing it. You chuck a CD in and within minutes you will have debian with lots of extra stuff with minimal effort and no faffing around with config files. This has got to be a win-win situation for Linux (and debian). It means more people using Linux (tick!), it means more people using debian (tick!), it means more people realising that Linux isn't "Just for nerds" (tick!). Ok, so it's a win-win-win situation. Just because debians $DEITY-awful text based installer is okay for some, doesn't mean its good for everyone. Don't forget one thing a lot of us spend a lot of our professional and private time doing is convincing Joe Public that Linux is a Good Thing (tm). If we stumble at the "is it easy to install" hurdle then you can kiss that convert goodbye. If I can say to a Windows Luser mate "hey, stick this cd in, and it will allow you to use a nice graphical windowing system, browser, office, mail, graphical manipulation etc with *no* Linux knowledge *at* *all* then that has to be fun. As an illustration, I did this last night. I have a mate who has never used Linux at all. He's a windows man. One of his projects is to put a PC in an arcade cabinet and boot an OS so he can play MAME (old classic arcade games via emulation). I suggested Linux and he was colder Tux on Pluto to the idea. When I mentioned he could chuck a hard disk in the machine with all the games on, and just boot to a CD (that happens to run linux) and that it works out of the box, he was interested. Needless to say, he was amazed at how easy it was. I suggested that he might want to install it on his hard disk, but then thought, why bother? It works, he doesn't have to worry about corrupt file systems or fscks on boot.. Winner! :D Windows users are used to GUIs, good or bad. Yes, you and I can use vi/emacs/jed/whatever, and have a great time with it. But Joe Schmoe wont touch it if he has to type commands in. This is completely fair and right. Comuters have been around for *how* long? And you still have to type commands in!? Why don't we just go back to paper tape and punched cards and be done with it! :D Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DEAF3E60 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:32:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29FT1lp023317; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:29:02 -0500 Received: from web41101.mail.yahoo.com (web41101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29FS8lp023311 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:28:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20040309152808.34760.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:28:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <42658.194.39.131.40.1078844958.squirrel@194.39.131.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:28:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1905 Lines: 58 --- Alan Pope wrote: $person(> >) = "Thomas Adam" $previous="Richard Bray" (Alan, when you snip, could you retain the people's names, thanks. It gives our scripts more of a change that way :)) > Umm, forgive me, but he did say "for the new user is the control panel > like programs". For which I completely agree. I am a self confessed geek > who doesn't have a problem with editing text files, but my wife wouldn't > like or want to do that. While this maybe true, not everything is solvable from a GUI, and there are instances when one has to edit text files. We have had this discussion in the past (c.f. Window Defectors' column of previous months ago). [..snip..] > Harsh. > > Knoppix is easier to install than plain debian. [FACT]. No disputing it. Yes, but Knoppix already *has* everything there, which in itself is limiting since there is *so* much more than just a 'prettified' KDE GUI. > Just because debians $DEITY-awful text based installer is okay for some, > doesn't mean its good for everyone. Maybe not, but I have mentioned a lot in the past about why a text-based installer was used for Debian. [..snip..] -- see the Windows Defectors' Column from previous months. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76D913E73 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:22:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29GJ2lp026365; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:19:02 -0500 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29GISlp026360 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:18:29 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040309161749.UGCV14417.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com>; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:17:49 +0000 Received: from popey.com (www-data@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i29GGnwZ012201; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:16:50 GMT Received: (from www-data@localhost) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) id i29GGiuk012199; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:16:44 GMT From: Alan Pope X-Authentication-Warning: popey.com: www-data set sender to alan@popey.com using -f Received: from proxy10.sap-ag.de ([194.39.131.40]) (proxying for unknown) (SquirrelMail authenticated user alan); by www.popey.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:16:43 -0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <48670.194.39.131.40.1078849003.squirrel@194.39.131.40> In-Reply-To: <20040309152808.34760.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> References: <42658.194.39.131.40.1078844958.squirrel@194.39.131.40> <20040309152808.34760.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:16:43 -0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2799 Lines: 72 Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Alan Pope wrote: > > $person(> >) = "Thomas Adam" > $previous="Richard Bray" > > (Alan, when you snip, could you retain the people's names, thanks. It > gives our scripts more of a change that way :)) > Sorry, I didn't snip, it was the mail client that did that. >> Umm, forgive me, but he did say "for the new user is the control panel >> like programs". For which I completely agree. I am a self confessed geek >> who doesn't have a problem with editing text files, but my wife wouldn't >> like or want to do that. > > While this maybe true, not everything is solvable from a GUI, and there > are instances when one has to edit text files. We have had this discussion > in the past (c.f. Window Defectors' column of previous months ago). > I didn't say every problem was solveable. Ok, here's an example from the windows world. If you're configuring windows you use a GUI for the vast majority of stuff. My wife has never used a command line in windows, never had to. For Joe end user they shouldn't have to. The vast set of standard daily tasks are available through a GUI. This isn't often the case with Linux. This is not a philosophical point of view, it's a fact that one reason Windows users are weary of switching to linux is the command line. If the majority of their daily tasks can be addressed through options in a GUI then they'll find life "easier". I reiterate, you and I are fine with command lines, that I don't dispute. I just believe that *not* providing GUI tools seriously hampers Linux penetration on the desktop. >> Knoppix is easier to install than plain debian. [FACT]. No disputing it. > > Yes, but Knoppix already *has* everything there, which in itself is > limiting since there is *so* much more than just a 'prettified' KDE GUI. > Exactly my point. Install windows and you get a GUI, cruddy notepad, awful basic word processors, calculator etc. All basic, but GUI based and pretty easy to use. Insert the debian CD and get a windows *user* not techy, *user* to get the same functionality and they will spend a good while doing it. Give them Knoppix and they're ahead of windows from the get-go - and for free! >> Just because debians $DEITY-awful text based installer is okay for some, >> doesn't mean its good for everyone. > > Maybe not, but I have mentioned a lot in the past about why a text-based > installer was used for Debian. > To be frank that's not relavent. I'm talking about joe-user installing Linux and getting going with the same or similar apps as they can on Windows in the same or less time. Not the reason why one distie chose one way over another. Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7EAB3E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Gj4lp011411; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:45:04 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29Giplp011130 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:44:51 -0500 Message-ID: <20040309164450.89383.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:44:50 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <48670.194.39.131.40.1078849003.squirrel@194.39.131.40> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:44:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2878 Lines: 73 --- Alan Pope wrote: > Thomas Adam wrote: > Sorry, I didn't snip, it was the mail client that did that. Not a problem. > I didn't say every problem was solveable. Ok, here's an example from the > windows world. If you're configuring windows you use a GUI for the vast > majority of stuff. My wife has never used a command line in windows, > never > had to. For Joe end user they shouldn't have to. The vast set of > standard > daily tasks are available through a GUI. This isn't often the case with > Linux. Perhaps, but you have to remember that both OSes are built up from different principles. Unix was, and is, and forever will be command-line based. Windows was built entirely on the idea that point-and-click is the way forward. Fine. But you have to remember that yes, why such GUIs do exist under Linux to achieve so-called 'common' tasks, it does not escape the fact that the GUIs can only provide some of the functionality that the CLI equivilent holds. It is at *this* level, at the command-line that power is achieved. By all means, allow the 'new' user to be able to use the GUI, but showing them the potential that the CLI has over a GUI is paramount. Whether this is done from the outset or not is up to the person. I often find it annoying that we should be trying to make windows -> (potentialy) Linux users work under Linux in such a way as to make it seemingly like windows. Sure, with Knoppix you get a nice transition like this, but I have seen a number of people put off with this when they cannot find a GUI to do a task, because they assume *everything* can be done with a GUI. When one then goes on to present a CLI (shock horror) solution, they look on in vain. Why? Because they alas, know no different. > To be frank that's not relavent. I'm talking about joe-user installing > Linux and getting going with the same or similar apps as they can on > Windows in the same or less time. Not the reason why one distie chose > one > way over another. That's not what I was talking about either, Alan. I was saying that there is no advantage to having a GUI installer compared to a non-GUI one. Both are intuitive in their own right. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:38 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 032113DF0 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:00:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Iv1lp002220; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:57:01 -0500 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29IuTlp002214 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:56:30 -0500 Received: from popey.com ([80.6.30.225]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040309185630.VNRP19383.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@popey.com>; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:56:30 +0000 Received: from popey.com ([192.168.129.104]) by popey.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-7) with ESMTP id i29IsuwZ017099; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:54:57 GMT Message-ID: <404E126C.5050300@popey.com> From: Alan Pope User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (X11/20040306) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? References: <20040309164450.89383.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20040309164450.89383.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 18:52:28 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6913 Lines: 150 Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Alan Pope wrote: > > >>I didn't say every problem was solveable. Ok, here's an example from the >>windows world. If you're configuring windows you use a GUI for the vast >>majority of stuff. My wife has never used a command line in windows, >>never >>had to. For Joe end user they shouldn't have to. The vast set of >>standard >>daily tasks are available through a GUI. This isn't often the case with >>Linux. >> >> > >Perhaps, but you have to remember that both OSes are built up from >different principles. Unix was, and is, and forever will be command-line >based. > > > You, I and probably everyone else on this list know that. I never suggested it wasn't. >Windows was built entirely on the idea that point-and-click is the way >forward. Fine. But you have to remember that yes, why such GUIs do exist >under Linux to achieve so-called 'common' tasks, it does not escape the >fact that the GUIs can only provide some of the functionality that the CLI >equivilent holds. It is at *this* level, at the command-line that power is >achieved. > > > That argument does not hold true for everything. You seem to dismissing GUIs out of hand. As if GUIs have no place in this world. Mind you, what should one expect from someone who uses fvwm eh? :D What you're implying is that anything that is done with a GUI can also be done at the command line. Fine, I have no problem with that. For every "webmin", theres an xxx.conf, for each "network config wizard" there's /etc/network. The problem isn't with me though is it? It's everyone else out there we're trying to convert/upgrade/assimilate. They just don't want to be faffing around with text files when they can choose radio buttons and checkboxes with a nice little tooltip telling them what to do. >By all means, allow the 'new' user to be able to use the GUI, but showing >them the potential that the CLI has over a GUI is paramount. Whether this >is done from the outset or not is up to the person. I often find it >annoying that we should be trying to make windows -> (potentialy) Linux >users work under Linux in such a way as to make it seemingly like windows. > > But that's the problem Thomas. *You* have a problem with GUIs. There's millions of people out there who don't, who actually *like* the feel of clicking on things to get jobs done. >Sure, with Knoppix you get a nice transition like this, but I have seen a >number of people put off with this when they cannot find a GUI to do a >task, because they assume *everything* can be done with a GUI. When one >then goes on to present a CLI (shock horror) solution, they look on in >vain. Why? Because they alas, know no different. > > > And they shouldn't have to know different is my argument. There are many users out there who *rightly* see computers as a tool to get a job done. In the same way that a car is a means to get from A to B, a VCR is a method for timeshifting TV programmes, an alarm clock is a mechanism for waking you up in the morning/afternoon. I want to use all those devices for the purposes that *I* want to use them. Joe User wants to use them for his purposes. He wants to "just edit a document" or "just type an email". I find the attitude that IT professionals have that users need to somehow understand what's going on under the bonnet (hood) of the computer to be seriously misguided. Yes, some people have an *passing* interest in what's happening, or how they can better control the process they are involved, but the vast, vast majority don't. I teach IT courses all the time to people whose ability ranges from "never used a computer before" to "16 years unix experience". Some of them want to know how it all works and that's great, because I can talk about computers and how they work all day every day. However, a lot, and I mean a LOT, just want to know how to get the job done and that's all. I've learned a very valuable skill over the years. "When to stop talking techy to non-techies". It's a subtle skill that requires one to watch carefully for the merest hint of boredom, and eye-glazing. Your average driver couldn't care less how their car actually works, they just want it to work. Now however much that annoys a car enthusiast, there are millions of people on this planet who view cars in that way, a tool. Same thing with computers, they are tools. My wife falls into that category. I will never even attempt to explain how and why the computer does certain things to my wife, she just plain isn't interested. She wants to know that she can turn it on, press a button and get her a mail. GUIs work, and work well for this class of user. >>To be frank that's not relavent. I'm talking about joe-user installing >>Linux and getting going with the same or similar apps as they can on >>Windows in the same or less time. Not the reason why one distie chose >>one >>way over another. >> >> > >That's not what I was talking about either, Alan. I was saying that there >is no advantage to having a GUI installer compared to a non-GUI one. Both >are intuitive in their own right. > > > Of course there is. Compare a trabant to a VW Golf. Both do the same thing, one with comfort and style, the other with excess pollution, noise and smell. Given a choice I would be willing to bet the vast majority of people would take style and comfort over noise and smell any day. Ok there's an overhead to using the "better" one - in the case of the car it's the initial cost, and servicing costs. A cost in money or CPU cycles and memory in the case of a GUI on a computer. If you are trying to convert a Windows user to Linux, the *first* thing they are likely to see is the installer. All I am suggesting is that one is better for the non-techy than the other. Get a bunch of people - definately non-technical and put them in front of a computer with a (set of!) Debian CD and a Knoppix one. Chances are they will try both and prefer the Knoppix one simply because it's quick to get going, doesn't require them to learn all kinds of "techy terms" and has a real benefit in that it has the apps already loaded. Yeah it's a CD full of junk apps that you or I may not specifically choose, but the general populous will definately like it. I have shown knoppix to windows users and they've been blown away. I've lost count of the number of Knoppix CDs I've burned for people and given away. I think Knoppix et al are the single best way for us to penetrate the desktop with a robust, upgradable, maintainable, *usable* desktop for the masses. I wouldn't use it myself, as I've said, I use plain Debian and only use Knoppix when I want to show someone how fantastic (and fun!) Linux *can* be. Cheers, Al. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758D83E9C for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Jh1lp020847; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:43:01 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29JgIlq020842 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:42:19 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0n7J-0003a5-V3 by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:42:17 -0800 To: Alan Pope Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040309194217.GV17106@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: Alan Pope , tag@linuxgazette.net, gransar@ucla.edu References: <20040309164450.89383.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> <404E126C.5050300@popey.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <404E126C.5050300@popey.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:42:17 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1271 Lines: 32 Quoting Alan Pope (alan@popey.com): > That argument does not hold true for everything. You seem to dismissing > GUIs out of hand. As if GUIs have no place in this world. How else would we get multiple xterms? (Is there an actual discussion here somewhere, or just hauling out of hoary debate chestnuts in a particularly boring fashion?) > If you are trying to convert a Wind*ws user to Linux, the *first* thing > they are likely to see is the installer. Because they've never seen one before? (Remember, the norm in the MS-Wind*ws world is to use preloads.) I hope you weren't going to say "Linux must be made as easy to install as what MS-Wind*ws users are accustomed to", because it's difficult to match not having to use an installer at all. Not impossible, however: http://linuxonadisk.net/ I admire Knoppix very greatly, including as an easy installer for Debian. (See: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian ) However, there's no installer like.... no installer. ;-> -- This message falsely claims to have been scanned for viruses with F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange and to have been found clean. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3B763E68 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:58:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Ft1lp024853; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:55:01 -0500 Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29FsZlp024838 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:54:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 21902 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2004 15:54:33 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2004 15:54:33 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28F2DE1C81; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:54:33 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040309155432.GB2610@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <55245.194.39.131.39.1078829430.squirrel@194.39.131.39> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:54:33 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 3114 Lines: 58 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:50:30AM -0000, Alan Pope wrote: > > My concerns are: > > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to have > > the most) > > Thats not necessarily so. You can download the source to just about > everything and compile it on any distribution. Debian does have a lot of > debs, and redhat has a lot of RPMs.. Comparing the raw number of packages between distributions is like comparing apples and oranges. It's an arbitrary choice how many distro packages to split a source package into. Debian chooses relatively many, so you can install everything on a developer's machine, the runtime packages on Aunt Tooley's machine, and a no-UI package on an embedded system. There are server packages, client-only packages, documentation-only packages, library-only packages, development header packages, etc. Python is split into a dozen or so packages so you can avoid the Tk portions, etc. Each package has a unique set of dependencies, so choosing your packages carefully means you don't have to install tons of stuff you'll never use. Stuff that may be difficult to install, tedious to configure, or missing or broken in the current distro. If you use Debian Testing or Unstable (rather than Stable) and upgrade frequently, every few months you'll run into a situation where a package has broken or circular dependencies, or a required package doesn't exist in the repository or is not the right version, etc. In those cases it's easiest to delete unneeded problematic packages until the repository gets its act together. Slackware has relatively few packages. The packages "contain their dependencies within themselves" to a greater degree, so it's more likely you can just install a package and it works, rather than having to install the ten packages it depends on, the twenty packages *they* depend on, etc. The tradeoff is that a single package may contain all the runtime, development, library, documentation, and GUI files whether you'll be using all of them or not. That means you may have to selectively delete files on an embedded or diskspace-challenged system. Red Hat makes similar choices as Debian but not exactly the same. I don't think RH makes quite as many little packages as Debian does. Some packages are also pseudo-packages, meaning they don't contain any files themselves, but only dependencies to certain other of packages. This allows a convenient way to install alternate "scenarios" in one step, but it also inflates the total number of packages. Also, RPM has source packages in the same RPM format as binary packages, whereas DEB uses a separate format (three files) for each source package. So if you include source RPMs in the total number of packages, you've essentially doubled the number (although 35% would be a closer estimate). -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B033E9A for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:13:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29KA3lp022599; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:10:03 -0500 Received: from secure12.globalwebhost.com (secure12.globalwebhost.com [63.210.101.12]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29K9ulq022581 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:09:56 -0500 Received: from host190.pass-seymour.com ([12.33.96.190] helo=bray.wattstopper.com) by secure12.globalwebhost.com with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 4.24) id 1B0nXy-0003xx-NA; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 14:09:51 -0600 From: Richard Bray To: tag@linuxgazette.net, "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? User-Agent: KMail/1.5.4 References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - secure12.globalwebhost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - linuxgazette.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - brayra.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:09:43 -0600 Status: O Content-Length: 1680 Lines: 46 On Mon March 08 2004 22:30, Dean A. Gransar wrote: > Hi. > I am greatly interested in installing Linux. I have set a aside a partition OK, let's try to make sense of this spiraling discussion. Base of Linux is command line. That's a given. GUI is window dressing. Good for computer neophytes. GUI is two main things. Installer and Post-Install Control Panels. Most commercial and some non-commercial distros have good installers. At least as good as Microsoft. I'm more concerned about the post-install configuration. Also, the place where KNOPPIX really shines is in the hardware auto-detection. The beauty of that is the fact that the configurations scripts configure themselves. The developers of linux would be wise to realize the reception that KNOPPIX has garnered for solely that reason. AUTO CONFIGURATION With as many eyes and different systems that we use linux on, someday it could get even more intelligent about configuration. We all know that will not work 100% of the time. However if you didn't need to edit files OR use a gui configuration tool 90% of the time. Then linux could win by being far superior in configuration than Windows. In conclusion, linux should aim towards not needing manual configuration at all. Make it available, but limit the need. And, provide a gui whenever possible to reach the widest possible audience. Right now the closest is SUSE. KNOPPIX is a close second, but debian still lacks a centrol configuration tool AFAIK. -- Richard A. Bray linux@brayra.com http://brayra.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:52 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 176BF3EA0 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:31:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29MS2lp013504; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:28:02 -0500 Received: from smtp1.sea.theriver.com (smtp1.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.16]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i29MRblp013499 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:27:37 -0500 Received: (qmail 6680 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2004 22:27:36 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp1.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 9 Mar 2004 22:27:36 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7716CE1C81; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:27:35 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040309222735.GA3451@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:27:35 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 2984 Lines: 60 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 02:09:43PM -0600, Richard Bray wrote: > Base of Linux is command line. That's a given. > > GUI is window dressing. Good for computer neophytes. Linux allows you to do everything on the command line, and some things through a GUI. Windows tries to make you do everything through a GUI because it's "better". There is command-line support in Windows, both for backward compatibility and for sysadmin necessity, but it's incomplete and inconvenient. > Also, the place where KNOPPIX really shines is in the hardware > auto-detection. The beauty of that is the fact that the configurations > scripts configure themselves. The developers of linux would be wise to > realize the reception that KNOPPIX has garnered for solely that reason. Years ago many people said, "To install Linux without headaches, use SLS." It was about the only thing that looked like a distribution. Then they said, "To install Linux without headaches, use Slackware." Slackware had a rudimentary package system and text configuration dialogs. Then they said, "To install Linux without headaches, use Red Hat. They actually test their distributions." RH was the first 'commercial' distribution, so quality control affected their bottom line. Then they said, "To install Linux without headaches, use SuSE." SuSE bundled some not-quite-free software that GUI fans nevertheless wanted. It also came with an exceptionally thorough manual and reasonably advanced config tools. Around 1998 some other distributions were also touted as easy to install and relatively foolproof, such as Mandrake, but I never used them personally so I can't comment. Now many people say, "To install Linux without headaches, use Knoppix." It just boots from CD, probably recognizes all your hardware, doesn't mess with your hard drive unless you tell it to, so you can give Linux a safe and easy trial without "installing". It's not the first distribution to run from CD, detect hardware, provide auto-login to a complete functioning desktop with a web browser, office suite and KDE tools, or be Debian-based, but it's the first distribution to combine all these features together, and by all reports its hardware detection puts commerical distributions to shame. Plus there's no need to configure X or the framebuffer or anything, it just works. I know people who just give a Knoppix CD to anybody who's interested in Linux, or to anybody who needs to rescue a Windows system. So Knoppix has definitely raised the bar. But no doubt other distributions will appear and perhaps are appearing that that will equal it and eventually surpass it. RPM fans are no doubt waiting for an RPM-based equivalent soon. -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:43:49 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:43:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42893DE9 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A0W3lp004538; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:32:03 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A0Vplq004524 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:31:51 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0rdU-0004w6-AC by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:31:48 -0800 To: Richard Bray Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: Richard Bray , tag@linuxgazette.net, "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:31:48 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1519 Lines: 36 Quoting Richard Bray (linx@brayra.com): [Describes his ideal autoconfiguration setup.] > Right now the closest is SUSE. Knoppix is a close second... You may well be right. I haven't tried the latest SUSE, and it's definitely time to do that again. On the other hand, one can lawfully duplicate Knoppix CD images for friends, and encourage them to do likewise. Once you make people understand that it's real _and_ won't hurt their computers _and_ lawful to distribution, the copies tend to veritably fly off your pile. > ...but Debian still lacks a central configuration tool, AFAIK. If you're looking YaST2's exact scope of functionality, that will be found (for good or for bad) _only_ in SUSE. Otherwise, the answer for Debian is the same as the traditional one for questions about standards: "How many do you want?" You can install a variety of configuration front-ends for the various subsystems -- PPP-configuration, desktop configuration, etc. -- or you can install Webmin (and some of its myriad plug-in packages) if you insist on using one single tool to administer everything. My own preference in a single tool to administer everything is "vi", though -- and, for a graphical administration tool, vi in an xterm. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A1733E8D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:08:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A152lp006346; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:05:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A13vlp006322 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:03:58 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0s8l-0001Gw-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:04:07 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Richard Bray , tag@linuxgazette.net, "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:04:07 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1104 Lines: 29 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 04:31:48PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > My own preference in a single tool to administer everything is "vi", > though -- and, for a graphical administration tool, vi in an xterm. Rick, I hope you don't mind being quoted. :) > Cheers, > Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." > rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta Your quote gremlins acting up again, Rick? I've beaten mine about the head and shoulders with an unbated ablative absolute, and they still slip one in on me once in a while. Some time back, I sent my brother a link to an amusing on-line game that has a certain boxer chomping falling ears to score points, and they hauled out "Van Gogh became a painter because he had no ear for music." -- Nikki Harris [shudder] * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E51A3EAC for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1Q2lp023463; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:26:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1P9lq023458 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:25:10 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0sT7-0005Be-6N by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:25:09 -0800 To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:25:09 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 500 Lines: 15 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > "Van Gogh became a painter because he had no ear for music." > -- Nikki Harris Ear today, gone tomorrow! -- Cheers, "You have acquired a scroll entitled 'irk gleknow mizk'(n).--More-- Rick Moen This is an IBM Manual scroll.--More__ rick@linuxmafia.com You are permanently confused." -- ADOM (a roguelike game) _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FED13EB1 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1V2lp001917; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:31:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1Unlp032025 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:30:51 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0sYv-0001Jp-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:31:09 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:31:09 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 533 Lines: 17 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:25:09PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > "Van Gogh became a painter because he had no ear for music." > > -- Nikki Harris > > Ear today, gone tomorrow! Was that an oto-response? * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5093EB3 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1Y2lp007990; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:34:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1Xllq007985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:33:47 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0sbS-0005DV-Jl by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:33:46 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Cc: Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:33:46 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 539 Lines: 15 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Was that an oto-response? Aural fixation. -- Cheers, "This is mad, egotistical, sick, twisted, and stretches the bounds of Rick Moen good taste right off the tongue, past the uvula, and down around rick@linuxmafia.com the duodenum. It has other merits, but that should indicate positive interest." -- The Cube, http://www.forum3000.org/ _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473153DDF for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:46:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1h2lp008080; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:43:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1gBlp008075 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:13 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0sjv-0001sH-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:42:31 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:31 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 477 Lines: 16 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:33:46PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > Was that an oto-response? > > Aural fixation. You're only saying that out of malleus. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CA73DE9 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1w1lp025099; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:58:01 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.COM [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1v4lq025092 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:57:06 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0sxu-0005IL-S9 by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:56:58 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Cc: Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:56:58 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 513 Lines: 15 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > You're only saying that out of malleus. Unless you've suddenly become an auricle, I suspect you have no basis for that and are just trying to stirrup trouble. -- Cheers, Quantum materiae materietur marmota Rick Moen monax si marmota possit materiari? rick@linuxmafia.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39FD03DE9 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:04:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A213lp001728; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:01:03 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A20glp030565 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:00:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310020041.85652.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:00:41 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" In-Reply-To: <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:00:41 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 991 Lines: 35 --- Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > You're only saying that out of malleus. > > Unless you've suddenly become an auricle, I suspect you have no basis > for that and are just trying to stirrup trouble. Trust you two to overlobe things.... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932143E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:17:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2E1lp009948; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:14:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2D7lp009922 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:13:10 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0tDd-0001w4-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Thomas Adam Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310021312.GE4645@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Thomas Adam , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310020041.85652.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310020041.85652.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:13:13 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 761 Lines: 22 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 02:00:41AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Rick Moen wrote: > > > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > > > You're only saying that out of malleus. > > > > Unless you've suddenly become an auricle, I suspect you have no basis > > for that and are just trying to stirrup trouble. > > Trust you two to overlobe things.... Yeah, all us members of the inner-ear sanctum are like that: we release our puns ear-ly and often. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E5A73E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2B4lp009866; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:11:04 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Ablp009848 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:10:38 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0tBQ-0001vS-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:56 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310021056.GD4645@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:10:56 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 620 Lines: 17 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 05:56:58PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > You're only saying that out of malleus. > > Unless you've suddenly become an auricle, I suspect you have no basis > for that and are just trying to stirrup trouble. Stapes that, or people won't let us within hearing range again! * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF73A3EA2 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:38:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4Z3lp017884; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:35:03 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.COM [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4Ywlq017870 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:34:59 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0vQm-00060Y-Ie by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 20:34:56 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Cc: Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310043456.GH18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310021056.GD4645@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310021056.GD4645@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:34:56 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 652 Lines: 20 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Stapes that, or people won't let us within hearing range again! Reminds me: Once or twice, I've been known to keep a running gag going for a long, long time. See: http://linuxmafia.com/pub/jordan/Humor/war-of-the-fish-haikus.txt And if you happen to enjoy that, there was: http://linuxmafia.com/pub/jordan/Humor/alt.shrugged (in which I appeared as a minor character). -- Cheers, Rick Moen This space for rant. rick@linuxmafia.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A1E3EB1 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:54:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4p2lp002427; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:51:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4oElp002422 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:50:15 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0vfu-0002EA-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:50:34 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Cc: Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310045034.GB8442@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040310012509.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310013109.GA5024@callahans.org> <20040310013346.GF18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310014231.GA7181@callahans.org> <20040310015658.GG18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310021056.GD4645@callahans.org> <20040310043456.GH18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310043456.GH18147@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang , Richard Bray , "Dean A. Gransar" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:50:34 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1458 Lines: 36 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:34:56PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > Stapes that, or people won't let us within hearing range again! > > Reminds me: Once or twice, I've been known to keep a running gag going > for a long, long time. See: > http://linuxmafia.com/pub/jordan/Humor/war-of-the-fish-haikus.txt Heh. I did much the same thing in alt.callahans years back, although it's not abstracted anywhere I know. > And if you happen to enjoy that, there was: > http://linuxmafia.com/pub/jordan/Humor/alt.shrugged > (in which I appeared as a minor character). [LOL!] Rick, I read that thing and adored its insanity a *long* time back. My evil past comes back to haunt me... Speaking of which, got an email today: an ex-student of mine who is in the military happened to be in Hawaii this week, and heard somebody singing praises of a really great Perl instructor who lives on a boat... So the new guy says, "are you talking about Ben Okopnik, by any chance?" You could hear the delicate sound of jaws dropping in the resulting silence. [chuckle] I'm told that they'll raise a couple of beers to me when they get off work tonight. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EA993DE7 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3F4lp013405; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:15:04 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3EYlp013225 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:14:34 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2A3Bre18697 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:11:53 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Message-ID: <20040309221152.A18393@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:04:07PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Subject: [TAG] OT: New Book Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:11:52 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 721 Lines: 19 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:04:07PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Your quote gremlins acting up again, Rick? I've beaten mine about the > head and shoulders with an unbated ablative absolute, You've read the new book? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063AF3E29 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3S2lp030191; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:28:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3Rslp030186 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:27:56 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0uOG-00028M-00 for ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:28:16 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] OT: New Book Message-ID: <20040310032816.GB8166@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040309221152.A18393@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040309221152.A18393@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:28:16 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 593 Lines: 16 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:11:52PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:04:07PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Your quote gremlins acting up again, Rick? I've beaten mine about the > > head and shoulders with an unbated ablative absolute, > > You've read the new book? [perk] New? Do tell. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24A9D3E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3Y2lp014636; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:34:03 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3Xrlp014627 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:33:53 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2A3VDb19512 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:31:13 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] OT: New Book Message-ID: <20040309223113.B18393@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040309221152.A18393@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040310032816.GB8166@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040310032816.GB8166@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:28:16PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:31:13 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1087 Lines: 34 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:28:16PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:11:52PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:04:07PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Your quote gremlins acting up again, Rick? I've beaten mine about the > > > head and shoulders with an unbated ablative absolute, > > > > You've read the new book? > > [perk] New? Do tell. I scooped *you*? Cool. _For Us, The Living_; Robert Heinlein's first novel; written in 1938 or so, and lost until last June or so. In stores, as they say, now. My review is in my weblog. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F39F3E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:42:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3d2lp014714; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:39:02 -0500 Received: from web41102.mail.yahoo.com (web41102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A3cwlp014709 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:38:58 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310033858.79572.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:38:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] OT: New Book To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040309223113.B18393@cgi.jachomes.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:38:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 947 Lines: 35 --- "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > I scooped *you*? > > Cool. > > _For Us, The Living_; Robert Heinlein's first novel; written in 1938 or > so, and lost until last June or so. Ah, that would be H.G. Wells taking back? in time with him. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1A643E6C for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:52:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3n2lp031675; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:49:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3mRlp031669 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:48:28 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0ui1-0002AO-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:48:41 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: "Jay R. Ashworth" Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] OT: New Book Message-ID: <20040310034841.GA8315@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , "Jay R. Ashworth" References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <200403091409.44029.linx@brayra.com> <20040310003148.GB18147@linuxmafia.com> <20040310010407.GA4645@callahans.org> <20040309221152.A18393@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040310032816.GB8166@callahans.org> <20040309223113.B18393@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040309223113.B18393@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:48:41 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1378 Lines: 40 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:31:13PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:28:16PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 10:11:52PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 08:04:07PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Your quote gremlins acting up again, Rick? I've beaten mine about the > > > > head and shoulders with an unbated ablative absolute, > > > > > > You've read the new book? > > > > [perk] New? Do tell. > > I scooped *you*? > > Cool. > > _For Us, The Living_; Robert Heinlein's first novel; written in 1938 or > so, and lost until last June or so. Daaaamn. I _thought_ "Grumbles from the Grave" sounded a tad prophetic... > In stores, as they say, now. And in my hands, soon. ([sigh] Yeah, yeah, a dozen or so books piled next to me and needing to be read *now*. [shrug] So it goes. What are they going to do, not let me die when the time comes until I've read them all?) > My review is in my weblog. Not *now*, Jay; I haven't trawled through lileks.com since "Regrettable Food" came out. I'll get to you eventually. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05B73EB3 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:27:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1O2lp023415; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:24:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A1Nilq023409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:23:45 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.22 #1) id 1B0sRk-0005B8-Cd by authid ; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:23:44 -0800 To: "Dean A. Gransar" Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310012344.GC18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Dean A. Gransar" , tag@linuxgazette.net References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 17:23:44 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 5287 Lines: 111 Hi there, Dean! Quoting Dean A. Gransar (Gransar@ucla.edu): > I am greatly interested in installing Linux. I have set a aside a > partition for months but it wasn't until I attended a workshop that I > realized it is much easier to use Linux (with the graphic interface) > than I had thought. Depending on what you'd like to try, and whether you have some time and energy to spare, this can be a lot of fun. (Remember what one of the Unix community's most prized cynics, Jamie Zawinski, said: "Linux is free if your time has no value. ;-> ) If possible, find a Linux-using acquintance who can kibbitz with you. I imagine you're in the Los Angeles area (going by your e-mail address), and there are quite a number of active and friendly Linux user groups in the LA area. Please see: http://www.lalugs.org/ One of them might be very glad to have someone look over your shoulder. > So I did a research and found two softwares that have great support, > services, and information online: Red Hat and Debian. Yet I could not > make up my mind which one to choose. I am a philosophy major and > computer writing is not my strenghth so I didn't know which one to > choose. Come not to the Linux users for advice, for they will say "Debian" and "Knoppix" and "Fedora" and "SUSE" and "Xandros" and "Libranet" and "Linux-Mandrake" and "Lycoris Desktop/LX" and "Lindows OS" and "Slackware" and "Vectorlinux" and "Spinix" and "uOS" and "Peanut Linux" and "MEPIS" and "elxLinux" and.... It's what we like to call a "religious question". ;-> > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to > have the most) Probably. But all the major distributions have just about every application you could wish for, really. > I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most > support online) Honestly, "support" is a slippery concept. What do you really mean by that? It's very difficult know in advance which sorts of assistance are likely to be available, affordable, and useful. Fortunately, with Linux, you can get your feet wet by just picking a distribution and trying one. If it's frustrating you, or you just want to move on and try a different one, you can wipe the first one out and load a second one. With a small number of exceptions, all you lose is your time. > I want the program to access the part of my computer that is > monopolized by Wind*ws (FAT32 capabilities; Wind*ws have XP) because > there are files in that territory that i could use. As others have probably mentioned, any Linux distribution will come already equipped to read and write to FAT32 partitions, and most will have read-only access to NTFS. (It's possible to enable write-mode access with some versions of the Linux NTFS driver, but not yet very safe for your data files' integrity. There's also a relatively new trick for piggybacking XP's own NTFS driver for safe read/write access.) > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems Red Hat does > a lot of control and takes the absolute freedom) and at the end be a > good operating system for a graphic designer. The notion of Red Hat, Inc. and "control" is pretty much an illusion: You'll seldom find a more benign company -- and it's hard to name any that's done more for Linux, been more of a consistent leader, and more consistently released its work to the community under open-source licensing. One of the company's major initiatives for the last few releases has been to make the "desktop" configuration behave in a consistent manner and have a consistent style. If you prefer creative anarchy over a somewhat corporate-leaning uniformity, then Red Hat's "Blue Curve" desktop setup might seem a little stifling. It's not for everyone, but many like it a great deal. The company offers several Red Hat bundles with differing degrees of paid handholding support, or you can choose the completely a la carte and open source "Fedora" variant. Anyhow, you also mention the need for the Linux distribution to support your work as a graphic designer. Please be cautioned that, although there is a great deal of good graphics-manipulation and rendering software for Linux, there are some categories that are a bit rough, and there are some holes in your toolkit. (For example on the latter, colour-matching and prepress colour-separation algorithms _could_ be added to programs like The GIMP, but EFI's patents would make that unlawful. See: http://www.levien.com/gimp/gcmm.html ) One good place to learn about graphics tools for Linux is at the "Graphics Muse" site run by former Linux Gazette columnist Michael J. Hammel. Please see: http://www.graphics-muse.com/ > I know because of lack of my computer knowledge it seems that I'm > asking for something impossible. However I hope you'd kindly respond > to it. I hope you have fun with Linux, encountering varied delights and surprises, and not wasting too much time. ;-> -- Cheers, "You have acquired a scroll entitled 'irk gleknow mizk'(n).--More-- Rick Moen This is an IBM Manual scroll.--More__ rick@linuxmafia.com You are permanently confused." -- ADOM (a roguelike game) _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6340E3E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:16:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2B2lp009856; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:11:02 -0500 Received: from snickers.hotpop.com (snickers.hotpop.com [38.113.3.51]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Aclp009849 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:10:38 -0500 Received: from hotpop.com (kubrick.hotpop.com [38.113.3.103]) by snickers.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A6EC746CD for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 01:39:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hotpop.com (unknown [202.177.155.102]) by smtp-2.hotpop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4873C15B243; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:01:03 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> From: Raj Shekhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031014 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: rajshekhar@hotpop.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:22:21 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 837 Lines: 25 Dean A. Gransar wrote: > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does alot > of control and takes the absolute freedom) > and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. You can check out the Codeweaver's Crossover Office (http://www.codeweavers.com/). Using crossover office, they claim that you can run Adobe Photoshop on Linux. Though Linux has its own graphic packages (GIMP, sodipodi), they do not yet measure up to Photoshop (hopefully this should change in a few months ). -- / \__ ( @\___ Raj Shekhar / O My home : http://geocities.com/lunatech3007/ / (_____/ My blog : http://lunatech.journalspace.com/ /_____/ U _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D7543E62 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:24:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2L2lp026882; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:21:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2KKlp026877 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:20:22 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0tKk-0001x7-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:20:34 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Raj Shekhar Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Raj Shekhar , Gransar@ucla.edu References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:20:34 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1032 Lines: 23 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:22:21AM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > > Though Linux has its own graphic packages (GIMP, sodipodi), they do not > yet measure up to Photoshop (hopefully this should change in a few > months ). Having used both to a fair extent, I would strongly disagree. I find GIMP to be capable of everything I need in a way of graphic editing, while Photoshop either hides it away in weird ways (just rotating a picture in a default Photoshop setup takes about fifteen steps - if you can even puzzle out where it's hidden) or simply did not have it. For those who are misled by GIMP's simple appearance, take a read of "Grokking the GIMP" - a free book that is a package in at least Debian - for a knockout review of its capabilities. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE3C23E76 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Q1lp026971; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:26:01 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A2P9lp026964 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310022508.39231.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:25:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Raj Shekhar Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:25:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 34 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > For those who are misled by GIMP's simple appearance, take a read of > "Grokking the GIMP" - a free book that is a package in at least Debian - > for a knockout review of its capabilities. What of "ImageMagick"? I use [1] all the time...amazing. -- Thomas Adam [1] http://rmagick.rubyforge.org/ ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299D43E76 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Q4lp026981; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:26:04 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A2P9lp026963 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:25:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310022508.39231.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:25:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Raj Shekhar Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu In-Reply-To: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:25:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 34 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > For those who are misled by GIMP's simple appearance, take a read of > "Grokking the GIMP" - a free book that is a package in at least Debian - > for a knockout review of its capabilities. What of "ImageMagick"? I use [1] all the time...amazing. -- Thomas Adam [1] http://rmagick.rubyforge.org/ ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61C523E8D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:42:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2d2lp011481; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:39:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2cMlp011474 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:38:23 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0tcD-00021t-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:38:37 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: "Dean A. Gransar" Cc: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310023837.GA7784@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> <20040310022508.39231.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310022508.39231.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:38:37 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 756 Lines: 19 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 02:25:08AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > For those who are misled by GIMP's simple appearance, take a read of > > "Grokking the GIMP" - a free book that is a package in at least Debian - > > for a knockout review of its capabilities. > > What of "ImageMagick"? I use [1] all the time...amazing. Different class of tool, but - yeah. Pretty amazing, although the syntax can be, um, A Tad Overwhelming. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D94733E85 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2j5lp011826; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:45:05 -0500 Received: from snickers.hotpop.com (snickers.hotpop.com [38.113.3.51]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2itlp011551 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:44:55 -0500 Received: from hotpop.com (kubrick.hotpop.com [38.113.3.103]) by snickers.hotpop.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 613D672992 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:14:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hotpop.com (unknown [202.177.155.102]) by smtp-2.hotpop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6484D14789F; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:35:21 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <404E7CE0.2010706@hotpop.com> From: Raj Shekhar User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031014 Thunderbird/0.3 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> In-Reply-To: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-HotPOP: ----------------------------------------------- Sent By HotPOP.com FREE Email Get your FREE POP email at www.HotPOP.com ----------------------------------------------- Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: rajshekhar@hotpop.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:56:40 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1396 Lines: 36 Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:22:21AM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > >>Though Linux has its own graphic packages (GIMP, sodipodi), they do not >>yet measure up to Photoshop (hopefully this should change in a few >>months ). > > > Having used both to a fair extent, I would strongly disagree. I find > GIMP to be capable of everything I need in a way of graphic editing, > while Photoshop either hides it away in weird ways (just rotating a > picture in a default Photoshop setup takes about fifteen steps - if you > can even puzzle out where it's hidden) or simply did not have it. Actually Ben, graphic artists seldom use menus to do their work. Most of them use keyboard shortcuts. I am not sure how close the keyboard shortcuts in GIMP are to that of Photoshop. So the rotating that took you fifteen steps in Photoshop might just take two clicks and two key press to a veteran Photoshop user. I think the "familirity factor" or the "comfort zone" thing offered by Photoshop might be one of the factors that graphic artists find it hard to change to GIMP. -- / \__ ( @\___ Raj Shekhar / O My home : http://geocities.com/lunatech3007/ / (_____/ My blog : http://lunatech.journalspace.com/ /_____/ U _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E2DB3DFB for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:08:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A352lp013141; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:05:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A34blp013126 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:04:39 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0u1Z-00023y-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:04:49 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Raj Shekhar Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310030449.GC7784@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Raj Shekhar , Gransar@ucla.edu References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> <404E7CE0.2010706@hotpop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <404E7CE0.2010706@hotpop.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:04:49 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1917 Lines: 42 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:56:40AM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > Ben Okopnik wrote: > >On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:22:21AM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > > > >>Though Linux has its own graphic packages (GIMP, sodipodi), they do not > >>yet measure up to Photoshop (hopefully this should change in a few > >>months ). > > > > > >Having used both to a fair extent, I would strongly disagree. I find > >GIMP to be capable of everything I need in a way of graphic editing, > >while Photoshop either hides it away in weird ways (just rotating a > >picture in a default Photoshop setup takes about fifteen steps - if you > >can even puzzle out where it's hidden) or simply did not have it. > > Actually Ben, graphic artists seldom use menus to do their work. Most of > them use keyboard shortcuts. I am not sure how close the keyboard > shortcuts in GIMP are to that of Photoshop. So the rotating that took > you fifteen steps in Photoshop might just take two clicks and two key > press to a veteran Photoshop user. In GIMP, it takes me one shortcut and zero clicks - and I can remap it anytime simply by putting the cursor on the menu item and pressing the key. > I think the "familirity factor" or the "comfort zone" thing offered by > Photoshop might be one of the factors that graphic artists find it hard > to change to GIMP. That would work in both directions, in exactly the same way - IOW, that's not a factor in one being better than the other. As well, the pig-in-a-poke in your last sentence ("graphic artists all use Photoshop") isn't making it to market; innuendos generally won't, once your audience is past its teens. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8333DCD for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:55:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A5q1lp005562; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:52:01 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A5pQlp005557 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:51:27 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B0wcV-0000K4-00; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:21:07 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2A5p5QY017644; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:21:06 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:21:00 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: The Answer Gang , Raj Shekhar Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310055100.GA16642@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Raj Shekhar References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> <404E74D5.8000100@hotpop.com> <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310022034.GF4645@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 11:21:00 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1469 Lines: 36 On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 09:20:34PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 07:22:21AM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > > > > Though Linux has its own graphic packages (GIMP, sodipodi), they do not > > yet measure up to Photoshop (hopefully this should change in a few > > months ). > > Having used both to a fair extent, I would strongly disagree. I find > GIMP to be capable of everything I need in a way of graphic editing, > while Photoshop either hides it away in weird ways (just rotating a > picture in a default Photoshop setup takes about fifteen steps - if you > can even puzzle out where it's hidden) or simply did not have it. > > For those who are misled by GIMP's simple appearance, take a read of > "Grokking the GIMP" - a free book that is a package in at least Debian - > for a knockout review of its capabilities. > Definitely agree with Ben. My daughter was able to start Grokking the Gimp at age 7 with the help given in the on-line manual and with her parent standing by just in case. Also worth looking at are the tutorials on the Web site www.gimp.org. As far as command line graphical tools are concerned---it *is* possible to run all the GIMP commands from the scheme console that comes with it--I managed to do a few things while trying to write my first script-fu---still learning... Kapil. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DA8C3DE7 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:07:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A221lp009703; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:02:01 -0500 Received: from mail.rnbhq.org (vobcopy.org [82.165.25.30]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A214lq001768 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:01:05 -0500 Received: from port-212-202-18-15.reverse.qsc.de ([212.202.18.15] helo=sisko.muon.local ident=foobar) by mail.rnbhq.org with asmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B0xB6-0003kf-00; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:26:52 +0100 Received: from robos by sisko.muon.local with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B0t19-0007Mf-00; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:00:19 +0100 From: Robos To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Gransar@ucla.edu Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310020019.GC25950@muon.de> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:00:19 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 2791 Lines: 52 On Mon, 08.03.04, "Dean A. Gransar" wrote: > Hi. Hi Dean > I am greatly interested in installing Linux. I have set a aside a partition for months > but it wasn't untill I attended a workshop that I realized it is much easier to use > linux (with the graphic interface) than I had thought. So I did a research and found > two softwares that have great support, services, and information online: Red Hat > and Debian. Yet I could not make up my mind which one to choose. I am a philosophy > major and computer writing is not my strenghth so I didn't know which one to choose. > I thought if i give you my concerns you would tell me which one is right for me so > my dream of bieng in charge of my computer comes throught. I am not a great fan > of graphic interface and i hope that by reading into linux, taking classes, and asking > questions i can learn to work with the kernal and program myself. > > My concerns are: > I want the distribution to have a lot of packages (debian seems to have the most) > I want the distribuiton to have to most support (red hat has the most support online) > I want the program to access the part of my computer that is monopolized by windows (fat 34 capabilities; windows have xp) > because there are files in that territory that i could use. > I want the program to give the most freedom (it seems red hat does alot of control and takes the absolute freedom) > and at the end be a good operating system for a graphic designer. I say it also is quite important what net access you have. If you have a big pipe to the net you can go totally cd (dvd) free with debian. Heck, your uni might even have a debian mirror where you can download __really__ fast. I use debian on all my machines and it is a buzz to keep up to date. I did quite some debian installs and now switched over to installing knoppix and updating that. Works really really nice on several of my machines already (and some friends' machines). If you already have a partition set aside I'd say the knoppix install is as easy as it gets and you have all the goody software you want AND it is already configured for your hardware. AND since you are a philosopy major you HAVE to go with debian since you get quite a lot of philosophy there too (cough) ;-) Simply come back and ask if you have a question (after you tried a intelligent search on http://google.com/linux) > I know becuase of lack of my computer knowledge it seems that Im asking for > something impossbile. However I hope you'd kindly respond to it. Cheers Robos -- Robos - gpg --recv-keys --keyserver blackhole.pca.dfn.de 6EEADA09 It's GNU/Linux dammit! F U M $ ! _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CA583E5B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2C1lp009900; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:12:01 -0500 Received: from mail.rnbhq.org (vobcopy.org [82.165.25.30]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Bulq009895 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:11:58 -0500 Received: from port-212-202-18-15.reverse.qsc.de ([212.202.18.15] helo=sisko.muon.local ident=foobar) by mail.rnbhq.org with asmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B0xLa-0000qg-00 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 07:37:42 +0100 Received: from robos by sisko.muon.local with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B0tBS-0005KJ-00 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:10:58 +0100 From: Robos To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310021058.GD25950@muon.de> References: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <001201c4058f$4d12dac0$1276e8a9@dean> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:10:58 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 878 Lines: 24 On Mon, 08.03.04, "Dean A. Gransar" wrote: HE TAG! EVER READ THE QUESTION AND INFO? > my dream of bieng in charge of my computer comes throught. I am not a great fan > of graphic interface and i hope that by reading into linux, taking classes, and asking > questions i can learn to work with the kernal and program myself. So stop the debate about whether gui is good or bad for a new user (unless you want to shout out your opinion in a general sense) since this new linux user wants to take control (which I personally would take as he wants to use the console - I think nobody would disagree with this) Cheers Robos -- Robos - gpg --recv-keys --keyserver blackhole.pca.dfn.de 6EEADA09 It's GNU/Linux dammit! F U M $ ! _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789273E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:20:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2H4lp024685; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:17:04 -0500 Received: from web41110.mail.yahoo.com (web41110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.26]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A2GFlp018733 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:16:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310021614.54907.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:16:14 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040310021058.GD25950@muon.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:16:14 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1490 Lines: 46 --- Robos wrote: > On Mon, 08.03.04, "Dean A. Gransar" wrote: > > HE TAG! > EVER READ THE QUESTION AND INFO? Might I remind you, Robos (and I quote from the FAQ itself): ``` "Be Warned: The answers themselves may range from friendly to gruff and often contain sharp humor, horseplay, fluff, pedantry, and pontification; the discussion spawned by your question may well wander off-topic and possibly back on again - with all of this reflected in your mailbox. Thin-skinned folks, those who expect "their answer" and nothing else, and narrow-minded people are urged to take the appropriate precautions. (Yellow helmets and fire- and bullet-proof underwear are available in the shop just off the main lobby.)" ''' http://linuxgazette.net/tag/ask-the-gang.html -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:10:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD04C3E75 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2P1lp026944; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:25:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A2Nvlp026925 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:23:59 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0tO7-0001xb-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:24:03 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Cc: "Dean A. Gransar" Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040310022402.GG4645@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , "Dean A. Gransar" References: <20040310021058.GD25950@muon.de> <20040310021614.54907.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310021614.54907.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:24:03 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 916 Lines: 25 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 02:16:14AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Robos wrote: > > > On Mon, 08.03.04, "Dean A. Gransar" wrote: > > > > HE TAG! > > EVER READ THE QUESTION AND INFO? > > Might I remind you, Robos (and I quote from the FAQ itself): > > ``` > "Be Warned: The answers themselves may range from friendly to gruff and > often contain sharp humor, horseplay, fluff, pedantry, and pontification; ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ We are, indeed, five for five - all within this one thread. Robos, you can't say that you haven't been warned. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:20:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDD33F46 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B3W4lp029870; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:32:04 -0500 Received: from mail.rnbhq.org (vobcopy.org [82.165.25.30]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B3Vqlq029865 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:31:54 -0500 Received: from port-212-202-8-108.reverse.qsc.de ([212.202.8.108] helo=sisko.muon.local ident=foobar) by mail.rnbhq.org with asmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B1LY1-00088X-00 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:28:09 +0100 Received: from robos by sisko.muon.local with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1B1GuD-0004eY-00 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:30:45 +0100 From: Robos To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040311033045.GA13353@muon.de> References: <20040310021058.GD25950@muon.de> <20040310021614.54907.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> <20040310022402.GG4645@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310022402.GG4645@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 04:30:45 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 1140 Lines: 36 On Tue, 09.03.04, Ben Okopnik wrote: Hi > > Might I remind you, Robos (and I quote from the FAQ itself): > > > > ``` > > "Be Warned: The answers themselves may range from friendly to gruff and > > often contain sharp humor, horseplay, fluff, pedantry, and pontification; > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > We are, indeed, five for five - all within this one thread. Robos, you > can't say that you haven't been warned. :) You folks see TAG more like a breeding ground for discussion than for answering questions it seems :) Cheer Robos > > * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * > -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- > _______________________________________________ > TAG mailing list > TAG@linuxgazette.net > http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag > -- Robos - gpg --recv-keys --keyserver blackhole.pca.dfn.de 6EEADA09 It's GNU/Linux dammit! F U M $ ! _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:20:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EF593F47 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:44:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B3f2lp029989; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:41:02 -0500 Received: from smtp2.sea.theriver.com (smtp2.sea.theriver.com [216.39.128.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2B3e2lp029968 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:40:02 -0500 Received: (qmail 23873 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2004 03:40:01 -0000 Received: from sense-sea-megasub-1-72.oz.net (HELO sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) (216.39.144.72) by smtp2.sea.theriver.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2004 03:40:01 -0000 Received: by sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id E5628E1C81; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:40:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Orr To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040311034000.GA11479@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net> References: <20040310021058.GD25950@muon.de> <20040310021614.54907.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> <20040310022402.GG4645@callahans.org> <20040311033045.GA13353@muon.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040311033045.GA13353@muon.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-gazette-tag: sluggo Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: mso@oz.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:40:00 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 514 Lines: 13 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 04:30:45AM +0100, Robos wrote: > You folks see TAG more like a breeding ground for discussion than for > answering questions it seems :) Not just discussion. We're gathering material for the Back Page! -- -Mike Orr (aka. Sluggo), mso@oz.net (iron@sense-sea-MegaSub-1-465.oz.net) http://sluggo.kicks-ass.org/ Cxu vi parolas Esperante? _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:20:58 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ED153F47 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 19:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B3f5lp030000; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:41:05 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2B3eulp029984 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:40:56 -0500 Message-ID: <20040311034053.73047.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.203.167] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:40:53 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040311033045.GA13353@muon.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 03:40:53 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 872 Lines: 31 --- Robos wrote: > You folks see TAG more like a breeding ground for discussion than for > answering questions it seems :) This philosophy is what makes the LG. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:21:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B829A3F2B for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:35:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B4W5lp000614; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:32:05 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2B4VYlp000609 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:31:35 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B1HrO-0001kL-00 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:31:54 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] which distribution? Message-ID: <20040311043154.GA6637@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040311033045.GA13353@muon.de> <20040311034053.73047.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040311034053.73047.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:31:54 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1345 Lines: 33 On Thu, Mar 11, 2004 at 03:40:53AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Robos wrote: > > > You folks see TAG more like a breeding ground for discussion than for > > answering questions it seems :) > > This philosophy is what makes the LG. Agreed, in spades. That's certainly _the_ thing that makes LG "a little more fun" for me. There may be /veritas/ in /vino/, but there's a hell of a lot more of it in discussion with other intelligent, knowledgeable folks - and for me, LG fills the bill for that aspect of my Linux geekery. I also really like the fact that new Linux users can get the fine brew resulting from a distillation of our shared expertise, and that, much in the spirit of how newsgroups used to be, it's a "peer-reviewed" environment - bad info doesn't have much of a chance of making it past all of us, plus Heather's Scissors, and into the pages of LG. So - crank up the loud music. Reach for the dark beer, the pretzels, the man pages, and the Webster's. Jack the barrier. Bring the noise. -- Neal Stephenson, "Snow Crash" * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Tue Mar 9 16:13:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4963E4B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 08:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Gm1lp028013; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:48:02 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i29Glclp028006 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:47:39 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.97]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D74916C32B; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:47:37 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <404DF52F.2020100@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040119 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gransar@ucla.edu, tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] Re: which distribution? Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:47:43 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1838 Lines: 43 Dean, Let me add my two cents to the discussion. I've been spending the last few months migrating my home computer from Windows XP to Linux. I've tried several distributions. The first was Mandrake 8.2 (friendly, but hardware support was incomplete and the default distro couldn't handle 1GB of memory), then Red Hat 9 (not as friendly, but more hardware support, and is a big commercial distro), and finally SuSE 9 Professional. I switched to SuSE when Red Hat announced the "end of life" for version 9 (due this April). SuSE makes it easy to configure both hardware (like setting up printers) and system services (like sharing directories with Windows boxes) using Yast. I love it! I found mounting my NTFS volumes from XP easy, but had to do a little finagling with the /etc/fstab file to make them browsable and readable by my non-root user id (the default is readable only by root). It comes with lots of applications, and the default window manager is KDE, which makes it more comfortable (IMHO) for the Windows user. I've used a program called Wine to run Windows apps, but frankly find it useful for Microsoft Office 97, one or two games, and little else. I stay away from Windows programs on Linux wherever possible. The SuSE CD (the DVD as well) not only contains the bootable installer, but also has an automated GUI-based system repair tool in case something goes wrong down the road (because, like me, you tend to do stupid things to your computer). Of the three distros I've tried, I like SuSE the best. YMMV. Good Luck. -- Tom Brown -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350173E5B for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 19:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A3l2lp031634; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:47:02 -0500 Received: from ppp-69-148-50-150.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net (ppp-69-148-50-150.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net [69.148.50.150]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A3kdlp030849 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:46:40 -0500 Received: from (HELO 6ef71a) [196.142.103.115] by ppp-69-148-50-150.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net id 7b1hH355M74h; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:43:36 +0100 Message-ID: <7$62-736bxe-33-$t-0-4i$kg96$8$y@59l.xl> From: "Octavio Herman" To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="F2BE8BABD_A.AA_C06C_A5AE" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Subject: [TAG] want a university degree without going to university? rdq ddyl Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: "Octavio Herman" List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 04 04:43:36 GMT Status: RO Content-Length: 3098 Lines: 81 --F2BE8BABD_A.AA_C06C_A5AE Content-Type: text/html; Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GET
axlzri nhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg szngmqlfglyghux n --F2BE8BABD_A.AA_C06C_A5AE-- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA4E3E8D for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:10:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A471lp016416; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:07:01 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A464lp016401 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:06:04 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310040603.29717.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:06:03 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] want a university degree without going to university? rdq ddyl To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <7$62-736bxe-33-$t-0-4i$kg96$8$y@59l.xl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:06:03 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1645 Lines: 57 --- Octavio Herman wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- GETDIV.Section1 { page: Section1} GET YOUR UNIVERSITY DIPLOMA Do you want a prosperous future, increased earning power more moneyand the respect of all? --> You mean I *never* have to go to University again? Woohoo! Call this number: 1-720-834-2989 (24 hours) We are located in USA international callers are verywelcome axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg szngmqlfglyghux n ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, if I can have: `` axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg szngmqlfglyghux n '' as a string of qualifications after my name, I'm *in*. -- Thomas Adam, axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg szngmqlfglyghux n ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 909863DFB for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4g1lp017952; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:42:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A4eklp017941 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:40:53 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B0vWe-0002DL-00; Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:41:00 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Thomas Adam Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] want a university degree without going to university? rdq ddyl Message-ID: <20040310044059.GA8442@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Thomas Adam References: <7$62-736bxe-33-$t-0-4i$kg96$8$y@59l.xl> <20040310040603.29717.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310040603.29717.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 23:41:00 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1225 Lines: 32 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 04:06:03AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > Well, if I can have: > > `` > axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg > szngmqlfglyghux n > '' > > as a string of qualifications after my name, I'm *in*. > > -- Thomas Adam, axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q > cg szngmqlfglyghux n Thomas! You should be ashamed of yourself, young man. You have to _earn_ those titles before you can use them! I mean, can you imagine the chaos, the sheer anarchy of a society where people used a distinguished title like "axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg szngmqlfglyghux n" without at least 200 credit-hours in vital subjects like Philosophy and History of Nose-picking and Synthetic Rubber Flavor Retention in Trans-nocturnal Adhesion Scenarios (a.k.a. "Does the Spearmint Lose its Flavor on the Bedpost Overnight?") Young people nowadays. They have _no_ shame. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CC7B3EC1 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2A5Q1lp004148; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:26:01 -0500 Received: from web41112.mail.yahoo.com (web41112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.28]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2A5PXlp004143 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 00:25:33 -0500 Message-ID: <20040310052532.41775.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.45] by web41112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:25:32 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] want a university degree without going to university? rdq ddyl To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040310044059.GA8442@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:25:32 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1515 Lines: 45 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > Thomas! You should be ashamed of yourself, young man. You have to _earn_ > those titles before you can use them! I mean, can you imagine the chaos, Oh, so _that's_ why I get set those thing called "assignments". I thought they were there just to fill up our (valuable) free time :) > the sheer anarchy of a society where people used a distinguished title > like "axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg > szngmqlfglyghux n" without at least 200 credit-hours in vital subjects > like Philosophy and History of Nose-picking and Synthetic Rubber Flavor > Retention in Trans-nocturnal Adhesion Scenarios (a.k.a. "Does the > Spearmint Lose its Flavor on the Bedpost Overnight?") LOL! > Young people nowadays. They have _no_ shame. We have pride though :) - Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 10 12:11:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8BE33EE8 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AEn2lp004119; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:49:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.90]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2AEm3lp004102 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:48:04 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B150R-00015Z-00 for ; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:48:23 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] want a university degree without going to university? rdq ddyl Message-ID: <20040310144823.GA4128@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040310044059.GA8442@callahans.org> <20040310052532.41775.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040310052532.41775.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:48:23 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1528 Lines: 38 On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 05:25:32AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Thomas! You should be ashamed of yourself, young man. You have to _earn_ > > those titles before you can use them! I mean, can you imagine the chaos, > > Oh, so _that's_ why I get set those thing called "assignments". I thought > they were there just to fill up our (valuable) free time :) Nope - the idea is, after you do enough of them, they can _assign_ that title to you. [Nod, nod] Really. I have it on best authority (the Little Voices have told me!) > > the sheer anarchy of a society where people used a distinguished title > > like "axlzrinhjaxxtqppht ibyf celfeejrqkjhywejtbnusjmpkveedvd q cg > > szngmqlfglyghux n" without at least 200 credit-hours in vital subjects > > like Philosophy and History of Nose-picking and Synthetic Rubber Flavor > > Retention in Trans-nocturnal Adhesion Scenarios (a.k.a. "Does the > > Spearmint Lose its Flavor on the Bedpost Overnight?") > > LOL! What, you haven't covered those yet? What kind of school are you attending, anyway??? > > Young people nowadays. They have _no_ shame. > > We have pride though :) [laugh] Best answer in the world, Thomas. And a great trade-off, too. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:21:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4D33F21 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLW3lp023990; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:32:03 -0500 Received: from sheppard1.torfree.net (torfree.net [199.71.188.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLV6lp017535 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:31:06 -0500 Received: from torfree.net (H86.C223.tor.velocet.net [216.138.223.86]) by sheppard1.torfree.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46BF47A238 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:30:48 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4050DA4A.6020905@torfree.net> From: Joseph Lalingo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.2.1) Gecko/20030225 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] CDROM not seen by RH9 Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: ah300@torfree.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:29:46 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 554 Lines: 17 Hi, I installed RedHat Linux 9 via the cd-rw, successfully, but the cdrom was not seen. I know the cdrom is still connected internally as I haven't interfered with the system's insides (which came with a a cdrom and cd-rw) internally. The cd-rw is understood to be the cdrom and there is now NO /mnt/cdrom1 but there IS a /mnt/cdrom. The cdrom door does not open, yet the light of the cdrom is on. Joe _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:21:40 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:21:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88F483F57 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:46:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2BLh1lp024181; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:43:01 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2BLgVlp024174 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:42:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20040311214226.46440.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:26 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] CDROM not seen by RH9 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: ah300@torfree.net In-Reply-To: <4050DA4A.6020905@torfree.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:42:26 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1979 Lines: 65 --- Joseph Lalingo wrote: > Hi, > I installed RedHat Linux 9 via the cd-rw, successfully, but the cdrom > was not seen. I know the cdrom is still connected internally as I > haven't interfered with the system's insides (which came with a a cdrom > and cd-rw) internally. The cd-rw is understood to be the cdrom and there > > is now NO /mnt/cdrom1 but there IS a /mnt/cdrom. > > The cdrom door does not open, yet the light of the cdrom is on. "The lights are on but there's no one home". /mnt/cdrom is the mount-point location of your cdrom drive. It is arbitrary and you can use anything you like. These are defined (or should be) in /etc/fstab. If you look in that file, you should have a line similar to: `` /dev/cdrom /cdrom iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0 '' Here, /dev/cdrom is in turn a symlink that points to my main cdrom device: /dev/hdd. This then gets mounted to /cdrom, when I issue the command: `` mount /cdrom '' I suspect your troubles come from you missing an entry in /etc/fstab. If you wanted to mount the second drive as /mnt/cdrom1, then look at the existing line in the /etc/fstab file, and modify it to reflect the new drive. The device name (/dev/xxx) can be got from viewing: `` dmesg | less '' HTH, -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:22:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:22:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 471403F74 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CMN2lp024981; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:23:02 -0500 Received: from mercury.is.co.za (mercury.is.co.za [196.4.160.222]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CMMUlp024976 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:22:31 -0500 Received: from windows (c7-dbn-48.dial-up.net [196.39.33.48]) by mercury.is.co.za (Postfix) with SMTP id 36B62BFBE6 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:22:23 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <000601c40880$74cacb60$302127c4@windows> From: "frank.n. dale" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [TAG] framebuffer colors Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:22:07 +0200 Status: RO Content-Length: 347 Lines: 24 Hello Gang, Assume X is not running and your framebuffer allows for 256 colors or more. Please give manual instructions (or C code) to write on the screen 64 characters in different colors. Thanks! Frank _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:22:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E52E53F74 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:38:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2CMZ2lp009520; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:35:02 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2CMY8lp009503 for ; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:34:09 -0500 Message-ID: <20040312223408.24436.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:08 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za In-Reply-To: <000601c40880$74cacb60$302127c4@windows> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:08 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1620 Lines: 48 --- "frank.n. dale" wrote: > Hello Gang, > Assume X is not running and your framebuffer > allows for 256 colors or more. > > Please give manual instructions (or C code) > to write on the screen 64 characters in > different colors. Hi, there. Assume for a moment that we cared. Then realise that actually this is The Answer Gang to do with Linux questions. Then assume that we do not answer homework questions. Then assume that you want to look here: http://linuxgazette.net/tag/ask-the-gang.html If you assume all of these, then you have a tautology. Of course your programming homework is quite easy to do, it just requires that you do a little research first, as with any academic course you might be studying. It takes work, and if you are not prepared to put any in, why bother with it? If you do not understand it, then that is a different matter, to be taken up with your lecturer. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:22:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EF153FE8 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:05:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DD16lp020155; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:01:06 -0500 Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DD0Olp012317 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:00:24 -0500 Received: from beltazoid.catz (xmorph.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 915062526EC for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:52:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pete.catz (pete.catz [192.168.1.10]) by beltazoid.catz (Postfix) with SMTP id 3799AD02E for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:52:33 +0000 (GMT) From: Pete Jewell To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors Message-Id: <20040313125232.28372b9e.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20040312223408.24436.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000601c40880$74cacb60$302127c4@windows> <20040312223408.24436.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Doh! X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:52:32 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 415 Lines: 15 On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:08 +0000 (GMT) Thomas Adam wrote: > If you assume all of these, then you have a tautology. Very well put Thomas - and better than the response I was going to post, before I decided to bite my tongue instead ;-) -- Pete Jewell _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C75DB3E9F for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 05:53:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDo3lp011126; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:50:03 -0500 Received: from web41107.mail.yahoo.com (web41107.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.23]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2DDnVlp011108 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:49:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20040313134925.78793.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41107.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:49:25 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040313125232.28372b9e.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:49:25 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1055 Lines: 36 --- Pete Jewell wrote: > On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:08 +0000 (GMT) > Thomas Adam wrote: > > > If you assume all of these, then you have a tautology. > > Very well put Thomas - and better than the response I was going to post, > before I decided to bite my tongue instead ;-) No need to do that, Pete :) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:22:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:22:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC013EA7 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDw2lp011244; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:58:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.83]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DDv2lp011238 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:57:04 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B29di-000550-00 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:57:22 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors Message-ID: <20040313135722.GC19191@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040313125232.28372b9e.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> <20040313134925.78793.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040313134925.78793.qmail@web41107.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:57:22 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 774 Lines: 22 On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 01:49:25PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Pete Jewell wrote: > > > On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:34:08 +0000 (GMT) > > Thomas Adam wrote: > > > > > If you assume all of these, then you have a tautology. > > > > Very well put Thomas - and better than the response I was going to post, > > before I decided to bite my tongue instead ;-) > > No need to do that, Pete :) ...even if you _do_ type with your tongue. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 479C93FFD for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:08:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DF52lp031476; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:05:02 -0500 Received: from mercury.is.co.za (mercury.is.co.za [196.4.160.222]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DF42lp031458 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:04:03 -0500 Received: from windows (c3-dbn-79.dial-up.net [196.39.32.79]) by mercury.is.co.za (Postfix) with SMTP id 81A4FC0332 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:56 +0200 (SAST) Message-ID: <000a01c4090c$609bd760$4f2027c4@windows> From: "frank.n. dale" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [TAG] framebuffer colors or what is right with thomas adam? Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:03:42 +0200 Status: RO Content-Length: 1243 Lines: 47 Hello Answer Gang, Please do not forward this query to Thomas Adam, he does not know. How do you set and get colors outside the range 0-F hex when using framebuffer in the Linux console? This query is not a home work exercise. It is based on fruitless Goggle search of many hours over a span of several months. The major framebuffer sites http://linuxconsole.sourceforge.net/fbdev/ http://linux-fbdev.sourceforge.net/ http://www.directfb.org/ do not deal with it nor does the HOWTO-framebuffer. Also the console escape sequences for colors only apply to colors 0-F. The only solution found so far involves the SVGALib which is too much of an overhead. There must be a simpler solution. Do you know more than I do? The query is relevant for syntax coloring in the Linux console (text, no X). With the standard 16 foreground and 8 background colors, syntax coloring is a pain in the eyes. With the 256 colors or more that you get from framebuffer, syntax coloring could become pleasant and effective. So how do you set and get those colors outside the standard range? Regards Frank _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C7A43FFD for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:37:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DFY2lp000557; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:34:02 -0500 Received: from web41115.mail.yahoo.com (web41115.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.31]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2DFXMlp000541 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:33:23 -0500 Message-ID: <20040313153322.38387.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:33:22 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors or what is right with thomas adam? To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za In-Reply-To: <000a01c4090c$609bd760$4f2027c4@windows> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:33:22 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2515 Lines: 81 --- "frank.n. dale" wrote: > Hello Answer Gang, > Please do not forward this query to Thomas Adam, he > does not know. Unfortunately, I do. > How do you set and get colors outside the range 0-F hex > when using framebuffer in the Linux console? For this, you will have to look at vga.c in the kernel source, and at fb.c. You will almost certainly have to hack the kernel source to allow this. > The only solution found so far involves the SVGALib > which is too much of an overhead. There must be a > simpler solution. Do you know more than I do? SVGALib is nothing to do with framebuffers, but it will allow you to display console screen resolutions higher than the default. > The query is relevant for syntax coloring in the Linux > console (text, no X). With the standard 16 foreground > and 8 background colors, syntax coloring is a pain in > the eyes. With the 256 colors or more that you get from > framebuffer, syntax coloring could become pleasant and > effective. So why not run your console with a setting of: `` vga=0x317 '' while will run a 1024x786x256 colours. Look here: ``` Colours 640x400 640x480 800x600 1024x768 1152x864 1280x1024 1600x1200 --------+-------------------------------------------------------------- 4 bits | ? ? 0x302 ? ? ? ? 8 bits | 0x300 0x301 0x303 0x305 0x161 0x307 0x31C 15 bits | ? 0x310 0x313 0x316 0x162 0x319 0x31D 16 bits | ? 0x311 0x314 0x317 0x163 0x31A 0x31E 24 bits | ? 0x312 0x315 0x318 ? 0x31B 0x31F 32 bits | ? ? ? ? 0x164 ? ''' (this is for: vga= in /etc/lilo.conf). > So how do you set and get those colors outside the > standard range? (see above) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E9B3FE9 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:49:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DGk5lp014425; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:46:05 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.83]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DGjdlp010590 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:45:40 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B2CGR-0005Oy-00; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:45:31 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Thomas Adam Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors or what is right with thomas adam? Message-ID: <20040313164531.GA20715@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Thomas Adam , frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za References: <000a01c4090c$609bd760$4f2027c4@windows> <20040313153322.38387.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040313153322.38387.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:45:31 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 750 Lines: 21 On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 03:33:22PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- "frank.n. dale" wrote: > > Hello Answer Gang, > > > Please do not forward this query to Thomas Adam, he > > does not know. > > Unfortunately, I do. [raising eyebrows] You're far kinder than I am, Thomas. Anything worded that way wouldn't get any useful response from me... well, behavioral correction is useful, but perhaps not to the querent's *immediate* purposes. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF9E13FF9 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:13:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DHA2lp005496; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:10:02 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2DH9Flp005472 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20040313170915.71644.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:15 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors or what is right with thomas adam? To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za In-Reply-To: <20040313164531.GA20715@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:15 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1495 Lines: 49 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 03:33:22PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > --- "frank.n. dale" wrote: > > > Hello Answer Gang, > > > > > Please do not forward this query to Thomas Adam, he > > > does not know. > > > > Unfortunately, I do. > > [raising eyebrows] You're far kinder than I am, Thomas. Anything worded > that way wouldn't get any useful response from me... well, behavioral > correction is useful, but perhaps not to the querent's *immediate* > purposes. /me breaks down and cries... I cccouldn't help it, Ben.....Frank said he had done months of pain^H^H^H^Hstaking research at all the main FB sites and did not bear any fruit. I figured as he was a monkey he wanted a banana, so I gave him that reply... *sniff* -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7353FF9 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:14:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2DHA7lp005515; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:10:07 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2DH9Flp005471 for ; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:09:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20040313170915.71644.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:15 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] framebuffer colors or what is right with thomas adam? To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, frank.n.dale@eastcoast.co.za In-Reply-To: <20040313164531.GA20715@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:09:15 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1495 Lines: 49 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Sat, Mar 13, 2004 at 03:33:22PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > --- "frank.n. dale" wrote: > > > Hello Answer Gang, > > > > > Please do not forward this query to Thomas Adam, he > > > does not know. > > > > Unfortunately, I do. > > [raising eyebrows] You're far kinder than I am, Thomas. Anything worded > that way wouldn't get any useful response from me... well, behavioral > correction is useful, but perhaps not to the querent's *immediate* > purposes. /me breaks down and cries... I cccouldn't help it, Ben.....Frank said he had done months of pain^H^H^H^Hstaking research at all the main FB sites and did not bear any fruit. I figured as he was a monkey he wanted a banana, so I gave him that reply... *sniff* -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD04D3EBA for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EFG5lp029443; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:16:05 -0500 Received: from avz.xs4all.nl (avz.xs4all.nl [194.109.242.240]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2EFF1lp016676 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:15:01 -0500 Received: (qmail 21483 invoked by uid 92); 14 Mar 2004 15:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dogbert) (192.168.1.10) by 192.168.1.6 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2004 15:14:57 -0000 From: "Ferenc-Jan" Organization: AVZ To: tag@linuxgazette.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <40548501.5186.278D8A1F@localhost> Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.12a) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-description: Mail message body Subject: [TAG] Compile on one, run on another machine Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:14:57 +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 1607 Lines: 38 Hi there! I've got a question that may be of interest to the linuxgazette community. Where does one go to find out more about cross compiling? (I'm not even sure cross compiling is the correct term for this.) The case is this: I often want to compile stuff on one machine but run it on another. My permanently-in-disrepair, bleedingly fast & incredibly messy test system is the machine of choice for compiling all kinds of linux stuff. The barely alive, old laptop or the lean & mean firewall box aren't - besides, I don't want a full blown gcc environment on those. But I run into problems most of the time. Approach A: compile it as per instructions. Then I have to go and find all the nitty bitty parts of the package, that are now residing everywhere on the test system's drive. This often fails because missing parts don't always generate comprehensible error messages. Approach B: try to install it to a different directory, i.e. /tmp/ and then move it to the other machine. This often founders on hard coded file location, i.e. when /tmp/lib/something is actually at /usr/local/lib/something (like it should be.) I don't consider myself a beginner, but who does. I don't seem to be able to google the answer to this problem, but surely I'm not the only one running into this? Any hints would be much appreciated, but I understand this must be relevant to linuxzgazette before you can spend your time on this. Thanks anyway! cheers Ferenc-Jan _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:37 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BF553E2E for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 07:54:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EFp2lp002530; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:51:02 -0500 Received: from web41114.mail.yahoo.com (web41114.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.30]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2EFonlp002525 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 10:50:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20040314155049.21582.qmail@web41114.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41114.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:50:49 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Compile on one, run on another machine To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: ferenc@avz.xs4all.nl In-Reply-To: <40548501.5186.278D8A1F@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 15:50:49 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2469 Lines: 65 --- Ferenc-Jan wrote: > Hi there! Hello. Cross-compiling refers to compiling applications on a computer that is not intended for the same computer because often the target computer has a different architecture. > Approach A: compile it as per instructions. Then I have to go and > find all the nitty bitty parts of the package, that are now residing > everywhere on the test system's drive. This often fails because > missing parts don't always generate comprehensible error messages. This is not an approach, this is what usually happens when you compile a program. > Approach B: try to install it to a different directory, i.e. /tmp/ > and then move it to the other machine. This often founders on hard > coded file location, i.e. when /tmp/lib/something is actually at > /usr/local/lib/something (like it should be.) This is dependant upon how ldconfig registers where the libraries are (possibly by way of $LD_LIBRARY_PATH). > I don't consider myself a beginner, but who does. I don't seem to be > able to google the answer to this problem, but surely I'm not the > only one running into this? I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking. If it is "how can I compile applications such that I can minimise the number of (likely) errors", then the answer is to compile it statically so that the application doesn't have to go using any external libraries. Thr only disadvantage with this is that the resultant binary is often very large. Dynamic libararies are the most popular -- much smaller, but it does mean that it is up to the user to ensure that these libraries are installed. 'ldd' goes a long way to checking and ensuring that is the case. But at compilation time, the user is often told what libraries (if any) are needed. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:48 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95BE93E3F for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 13:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2ELm3lp021541; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:48:03 -0500 Received: from web41105.mail.yahoo.com (web41105.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.21]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2ELlPlp021536 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 16:47:25 -0500 Message-ID: <20040314214721.74365.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:47:21 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Compile on one, run on another machine To: Ferenc-Jan Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <4054DF59.17215.28EE723D@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 21:47:21 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1799 Lines: 55 ** fwd onto TAG, grrr at clueless querents ** --- Ferenc-Jan wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks for your email! No problem. > > I'm not quite sure what it is you're asking. If it is "how can I > > compile applications such that I can minimise the number of (likely) > > errors", then the answer is to compile it statically so that the > > application doesn't have to go using any external libraries. Thr only > > disadvantage with this is that the resultant binary is often very > > large. > > What I want to do is compile stuff on a different machine than the > machine it eventually runs on. Strictly speaking not cross compiling, > because it's all intel architecture. Ok. > Anyway, another helpful soul came up with the answer on usenet: make > prefix=/tmp/foo install. That is exactly what I'm looking for. With > this I can drop everything in an empty dir, gzip it, move it to > another machine and unpack it & run it. Never thought it would be > this simple, I tried this with configure --prefix=/tmp/foo, but > that's where /tmp/foo gets into the compiled files. Great. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ED5C3E16 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:45:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EMg1lp007816; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:42:01 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EMfMlp007807 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:41:22 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.44]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70B5116C08A; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:41:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4054DFBE.5070009@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net, ferenc@avz.xs4all.nl Subject: Re: [TAG] Compile on one, run on another machine Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:42:06 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 27 Ferenc-Jan, Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think you're looking for a way to build a Linux installer package. Which one you need to build depends on what Linux distro you have (hopefully, it's the same one on all your machines). Some distros, like Debian, use APT, while others, like Red Hat, Mandrake, and Suse, use RPM. There may be others, I don't know. The only caution I will make here is that compiling the source code creates a binary specific to what is on the build machine. Of course, a test system should be as close to the production system as possible, so (hopefully) you're in good shape here. I've never tried to create Linux installation packages, but you should be looking for "HOWTO" documents for the package you'll be working with (APT, RPM, etc.), in addition to any Man or Info pages installed on your machine. I strongly suspect that it's a simple matter of adding a few commands to your makefile, to package the result, instead of installing it. Hope this helps. Tom Brown _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:23:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:23:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D8DD3E35 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 14:52:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2EMm2lp024742; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:48:02 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2EMlhlp024736 for ; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:47:43 -0500 Message-ID: <20040314224739.49830.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:47:39 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Compile on one, run on another machine To: tag@linuxgazette.net, ferenc@avz.xs4all.nl In-Reply-To: <4054DFBE.5070009@ceinetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:47:39 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 999 Lines: 35 --- Tom Brown wrote: > Ferenc-Jan, > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I think you're looking for a way > to build a Linux installer package. Which one you need to build depends Which is why I make extensive use of 'stow'. http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/manual.html -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 975663F2D for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FND2lp023821; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:13:02 -0500 Received: from natsmtp01.rzone.de (natsmtp01.rzone.de [81.169.145.166]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2FNCelp023816 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:12:41 -0500 Received: from khhlap.local.de (dialin-145-254-237-194.arcor-ip.net [145.254.237.194]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2FNCcrm015392 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:12:38 +0100 (MET) Received: from khhlap.local.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by khhlap.local.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id i2FNBXc04770 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:11:33 +0100 From: Karl-Heinz Herrmann To: tag Message-Id: <20040316001133.228b8c67.kh1dump@khherrmann.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: K.-H. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] DNS proxy/cache (Tip) Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 00:11:33 +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 1273 Lines: 37 Hi, I had an annoying little problem: My home network has grown to 3 PC's -- one directly on the phone line, the others connected via WLAN. Usually I would pick one dial-up provider and stick with that. Unfortunately the German ISP's are a big mess of call-by call providers with constantly changing tarifs. The directly connected box is only the dial-in and firewall/NAT Router, the other two are my Laptop and desktop. The annoying problem: Everytime I change the provider I had to change the resolv.conf on all systems according to the new nameservers as transmitted via [i]ppp protocol. My solution: dproxy http://dproxy.sourceforge.net/ It serves as a proxy/cache for DNS lookups. It uses regular sys-calls for namelookups and reacts instantly (no kill -HUP or similar) to new entries in /etc/resolv.conf. This is on the router of course and everytime pppd changes the resolv.conf for the new provider it simply uses the new values. The other two machines have the router as the nameserver and always get the correct information (even offline, so a connection is of course not possible). No manual changing anymore. K.-H. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42523F36 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2C2lp000852; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:12:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.91]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2BGlp000837 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:18 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B343M-0002QE-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:36 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Message-ID: <20040316021136.GA9213@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Subject: [TAG] [schneier@counterpane.com: CRYPTO-GRAM, March 15, 2004] Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:11:36 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1596 Lines: 35 Here's an interesting bit from Bruce Schneier's latest "CRYPTO-GRAM". I always knew that their code leaked and sucked, but 15% of the codebase? Whew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Microsoft Source Code Leak On 13 February, it became known that Windows 2000 and Windows NT source code was circulating on the Internet. Microsoft soon confirmed the leak, saying that "incomplete portions of Windows 2000 and NT 4.0 source code was illegally made available on the Internet." Microsoft downplayed the loss, and said it represented approximately 15% of Windows source code. The leak was soon traced to a Microsoft partner, Mainsoft. The Windows NT code that was leaked consisted of all of NT 4.0 Service Pack 3 -- more than 27,000 files. The Windows 2000 code only contained select portions of the source code, but did include the PKI module. I am stunned that Microsoft didn't immediately know exactly who leaked the code. There are easy techniques to give each version of the Microsoft source code files a unique watermark, such that any copy can be traced back to its source. The fact that they didn't bother doing this says a lot about their own internal security. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2F0B4022 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:15:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G3B2lp004293; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:11:02 -0500 Received: from web41102.mail.yahoo.com (web41102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2G3Aqlp004288 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:10:52 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316031051.7182.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:10:51 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] [schneier@counterpane.com: CRYPTO-GRAM, March 15, 2004] To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040316021136.GA9213@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:10:51 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1439 Lines: 41 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: " > I am stunned that Microsoft didn't immediately know exactly who leaked > the code. There are easy techniques to give each version of the > Microsoft source code files a unique watermark, such that any copy can > be traced back to its source. The fact that they didn't bother doing > this says a lot about their own internal security. " I am no conspiracy theorist myself, but it does make you wonder whether this was planned or whether Microsoft are gently smiling. At least this way it gives Microsoft an edge and a means to say "upgrade to Windows XP" so that they can stop supporting Win98/2K and its kindred.... /me walks off, past a guy with dark, dark sunglases. I know this guy..... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 841734035 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:30:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G3Q2lp021303; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:26:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.91]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G3Pplp021297 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:25:53 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B35DY-0002Ww-00 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:26:12 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] [schneier@counterpane.com: CRYPTO-GRAM, March 15, 2004] Message-ID: <20040316032612.GA9713@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316021136.GA9213@callahans.org> <20040316031051.7182.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316031051.7182.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:26:12 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1311 Lines: 29 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 03:10:51AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > " > > I am stunned that Microsoft didn't immediately know exactly who leaked > > the code. There are easy techniques to give each version of the > > Microsoft source code files a unique watermark, such that any copy can > > be traced back to its source. The fact that they didn't bother doing > > this says a lot about their own internal security. > " > > I am no conspiracy theorist myself, but it does make you wonder whether > this was planned or whether Microsoft are gently smiling. At least this > way it gives Microsoft an edge and a means to say "upgrade to Windows XP" > so that they can stop supporting Win98/2K and its kindred.... XP is based on 2k. I did, however, think of the effect of a bunch of Linux people looking at the code and laughing, and Micr0s0ft recording the exact _details_ of what they're laughing at so they can fix it... Nah, that's too paranoid even even for the dark glasses. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E18A4025 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2S2lp017889; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:28:02 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (bay9-f66.bay9.hotmail.com [64.4.47.66]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2Rhlp017884 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:27:43 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:16:26 -0800 Received: from 212.158.233.242 by by9fd.bay9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:16:26 GMT X-Originating-IP: [212.158.233.242] X-Originating-Email: [ackonia@hotmail.com] X-Sender: ackonia@hotmail.com From: "Adriano Konialidis" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 02:16:26.0685 (UTC) FILETIME=[AF923ED0:01C40AFC] Subject: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:16:26 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 806 Lines: 12
Hi. was wondering if anyone could help me out....
Am about to install linux(don t know which one yet...) on my laptop (sony pcg-fr315b) .
Couldn t find anything on the web specific to this model and am worried installation might go wrong....
any ideas or suggestions?
Thx
peace
wizzard
 

Half price modem, FREE connection and one month FREE - click here to sign up to BT Broadband. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDB93E43 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:59:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2t2lp019523; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:55:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.91]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G2smlp019509 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:54:50 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B34jL-0002V8-00; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:54:59 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Adriano Konialidis Cc: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b Message-ID: <20040316025459.GE9406@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Adriano Konialidis References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:54:59 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1367 Lines: 30 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 02:16:26AM +0000, Adriano Konialidis wrote: > > Hi. was wondering if anyone could help me out.... > Am about to install linux(don t know which one yet...) on my laptop > (sony pcg-fr315b) . > Couldn t find anything on the web specific to this model and am > worried installation might go wrong.... "Go wrong" in what way? Your machine won't explode or grow wings and fly away, nor will it do anything else that a reinstallation CD won't fix. You obviously need to back up your data, if the issue applies. > any ideas or suggestions? Yep. First suggestion - read "Asking Questions of The Answer Gang" at . Second, implied in the first - please don't send us HTML-formatted mail; it's not polite. Third - have you looked at the "Linux on Laptops" site, at ? Look at similar models (e.g., any of the other PCG-FRs) and see what problems, if any, their owners had. If you run into any specific problems, feel free to email us with those, and we'll see if we can help. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9FF3E8B for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G364lp004213; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:06:04 -0500 Received: from web41102.mail.yahoo.com (web41102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2G35Zlp004193 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316030534.5901.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:05:34 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Adriano Konialidis Cc: The Answer Gang In-Reply-To: <20040316025459.GE9406@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:05:34 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1444 Lines: 36 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > Yep. First suggestion - read "Asking Questions of The Answer Gang" at > . Second, implied in the > first - please don't send us HTML-formatted mail; it's not polite. Third > - have you looked at the "Linux on Laptops" site, at > ? Look at similar models (e.g., any of the > other PCG-FRs) and see what problems, if any, their owners had. If you > run into any specific problems, feel free to email us with those, and > we'll see if we can help. Ben is right, Adriano. You have failed to tell us anything useful. I can confirm though that I helped setup Debian on the very model of laptop you have there last week for a lecturer -- had no problems at all. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C09DF3E8B for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G361lp004202; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:06:01 -0500 Received: from web41102.mail.yahoo.com (web41102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2G35alp004194 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:05:38 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316030534.5901.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:05:34 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Adriano Konialidis Cc: The Answer Gang In-Reply-To: <20040316025459.GE9406@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:05:34 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1444 Lines: 36 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > Yep. First suggestion - read "Asking Questions of The Answer Gang" at > . Second, implied in the > first - please don't send us HTML-formatted mail; it's not polite. Third > - have you looked at the "Linux on Laptops" site, at > ? Look at similar models (e.g., any of the > other PCG-FRs) and see what problems, if any, their owners had. If you > run into any specific problems, feel free to email us with those, and > we'll see if we can help. Ben is right, Adriano. You have failed to tell us anything useful. I can confirm though that I helped setup Debian on the very model of laptop you have there last week for a lecturer -- had no problems at all. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A6C63DFB for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:41:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G6b2lp015637; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:37:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G6Zxlq015630 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:36:00 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.30 #1) id 1B38BD-00007W-Fu by authid ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:35:59 -0800 To: Thomas Adam Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, Adriano Konialidis Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b Message-ID: <20040316063559.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: Thomas Adam , tag@linuxgazette.net, Adriano Konialidis References: <20040316025459.GE9406@callahans.org> <20040316030534.5901.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316030534.5901.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.4i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:35:59 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 997 Lines: 22 Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas_adam16@yahoo.com): > Ben is right, Adriano. You have failed to tell us anything useful. I > can confirm though that I helped setup Debian on the very model of > laptop you have there last week for a lecturer -- had no problems at > all. Adriano, here's a further tip: Even in cases where (as with your PCG-FR315B), http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ doesn't have a link for your exact model, you can often find linked pages about extremely similar models. Have a look at the listings on that site for Sony VAIO models with nearby model numbers, and see if the description sounds similar to your problem child. If so, then the Linux tips for that other one will probably be useful for yours. -- This message falsely claims to have been scanned for viruses with F-Secure Anti-Virus for Microsoft Exchange and to have been found clean. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73B403F4C for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G6g2lp015746; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:42:02 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2G6felp015740 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:41:40 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2G6bjA10526 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:37:45 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b Message-ID: <20040316013745.G4238@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040316025459.GE9406@callahans.org> <20040316030534.5901.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> <20040316063559.GD18147@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040316063559.GD18147@linuxmafia.com>; from Rick Moen on Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 10:35:59PM -0800 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:37:45 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1774 Lines: 40 On Mon, Mar 15, 2004 at 10:35:59PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Thomas Adam (thomas_adam16@yahoo.com): > > Ben is right, Adriano. You have failed to tell us anything useful. I > > can confirm though that I helped setup Debian on the very model of > > laptop you have there last week for a lecturer -- had no problems at > > all. > > Adriano, here's a further tip: Even in cases where (as with your > PCG-FR315B), http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ doesn't have a link for > your exact model, you can often find linked pages about extremely > similar models. Have a look at the listings on that site for Sony VAIO > models with nearby model numbers, and see if the description sounds > similar to your problem child. If so, then the Linux tips for that > other one will probably be useful for yours. Though it's worth noting here that the Sony VAIo lapops are *worse* about conforming to that particular rule than any other consumer product in history... excpet maybe the DWL-650 and DWL-650'+' wireless cards from D-Link. Different OEM, different chipset, different packaging... and of course the one I *bought* didn't work with Linux. I'm quite happy, though, with my $51 SMC-2532W-B. 200mw, -91dbm sens, dual antenna jacks, and a removable patch antenna. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA02B3F54 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GBh2lp002100; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:43:02 -0500 Received: from web.m-web.com (web.m-web.com [128.121.229.124]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GBghlq002095 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:42:44 -0500 Received: from hotpop.com ([202.88.151.215]) by web.m-web.com (8.12.11/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2GBgeSI084260; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:42:41 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4056E4D8.3060200@hotpop.com> From: Raj Shekhar Organization: Media Web India User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net, ackonia@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: rajshekhar@hotpop.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:58:24 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1254 Lines: 29 Adriano Konialidis wrote: > Hi. was wondering if anyone could help me out.... > Am about to install linux(don t know which one yet...) on my laptop > (sony pcg-fr315b) . > Couldn t find anything on the web specific to this model and am worried > installation might go wrong.... > any ideas or suggestions? I would suggest you try starting your laptop using Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.net/), a live CD distribution. It can detect a lot of hardware out of the box. Once you are satisfied with the settings, you can install it on your hard disk with a single click. -- \°°/ (oo) +--------------------ooO-- -Ooo---------------------------------+ |Raj Shekhar |My home: | |System Administrator |http://geocities.com/lunatech3007 | |Media Web India |My blog: | |http://www.netphotograph.com|http://lunatech.journalspace.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ |__|__| || || ooO Ooo _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF90C3F54 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:54:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GBo3lp019028; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:50:03 -0500 Received: from web41105.mail.yahoo.com (web41105.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.21]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GBnjlp019011 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:49:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316114945.17887.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:49:45 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Linux on Sony Vaio PCG-FR315b To: tag@linuxgazette.net, ackonia@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <4056E4D8.3060200@hotpop.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:49:45 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1606 Lines: 42 --- Raj Shekhar wrote: > Adriano Konialidis wrote: > > Hi. was wondering if anyone could help me out.... > > Am about to install linux(don t know which one yet...) on my laptop > > (sony pcg-fr315b) . > > Couldn t find anything on the web specific to this model and am > worried > > installation might go wrong.... > > any ideas or suggestions? > > I would suggest you try starting your laptop using Knoppix > (http://www.knoppix.net/), a live CD distribution. It can detect a lot > of hardware out of the box. Once you are satisfied with the settings, > you can install it on your hard disk with a single click. This is quite a good suggestion. However, the Vaio model listed there has no 'shock' surprises in terms of hardware and Debian stable had no issues with it, even before dist-upgrading to testing. It should not be the case that he installs Knoppix on his laptop, he might want to go for something else.... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ Does your mail provider give you a free online calendar? Yahoo! does. Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB9DF3EF0 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GAA3lp029643; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:10:03 -0500 Received: from hotmail.com (bay12-f98.bay12.hotmail.com [64.4.35.98]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GA9glp029626 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:09:42 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 01:58:37 -0800 Received: from 217.43.192.237 by by12fd.bay12.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:58:37 GMT X-Originating-IP: [217.43.192.237] X-Originating-Email: [gravesarthur@hotmail.com] X-Sender: gravesarthur@hotmail.com From: "arthur graves" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Mar 2004 09:58:37.0707 (UTC) FILETIME=[408C65B0:01C40B3D] Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:58:37 +0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 4093 Lines: 66

is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my own web site?

arthur.

ps. the rhubarb season is upon us. get baking.

>From: Ben Okopnik
>Reply-To: The Answer Gang
>To: Arthur Graves
>CC: tag@linuxgazette.net
>Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb
>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:37:04 -0500
>
>Hi, Arthur -
>
>On Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 04:52:56PM -0000, Arthur Graves wrote:
> > i don't have/use linux at present. i've always been (well for the last 5 years
> > anyway) interested in linux and i'd rather use it instead of this microsoft
> > stuff. i am a chef, so i can deal with the rhubarb if you need advice in
> > return...
>
>[laugh] So the rhubarb comes back to haunt us. Never had rhubarb do that
>before: a greasy pizza eaten too late at night, yes; rhubarb, never.
>
> > what is a good system to use when one has little computer knowledge but is
> > interested in linux rather than that other stuff.
>
>My usual way to introduce people to Linux these days is to slip them a
>Knoppix CD. It's got much the same look and feel as Wind0ws... except it
>actually works. :) It also comes with around 2,000 programs, including
>OpenOffice (which looks very similar to MS Office) and lots of other
>goodies. Best of all, there's no installation necessary - although you
>can do so if you decide to later: it runs right from the CD (although
>it's somewhat slow as a result.) You can download the latest ISO image
>that you can burn to a CD from ; do note that
>it's about a 700MB download, so you'll want a fast connection.
>
>Oh yes - it's also free. :) You can't do much better than that!
>
> > i have  machine that works a treat, called a Toshiba Tecra. if this helps your
> > answers at all.
>
>I've run Knoppix on a Tecra previously, and it worked fine; it generally
>does, on a wide range of hardware.
>
> > it's the crumble that really lifts the more humble rhubarb recipe.
> > many thanks. arthur graves (gravesarthur@hotmail.com)
>
>Mmmm. I don't know that I can find any rhubarb in the local markets,
>but I'll keep that filed away for future use. On the other hand, my
>recipe database probably contains a few entries - let's see now...
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>ben@Fenrir:~$ recipe rhubarb
>Your query has returned 189 results.
>Would you like to [s]ee the list, [v]iew recipes, or [Q]uit?
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>[grin] Yep. Just might be able to scratch something up if I find some.
>
>
>* Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette *
>-*- See the Linux Gazette in its new home: -*-

Are you going travelling? Help us to find the 100 best internet cafes in the world. Click here for more details and you could win £250 and a digital camera! _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:39 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399D43F4D for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 03:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GB31lp000373; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:03:01 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GB2Hlp000365 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:02:18 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316110217.9920.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:02:17 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:02:17 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1071 Lines: 35 > --- arthur graves wrote: >--------------------------------- > >is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my own web site? > >arthur. > >ps. the rhubarb season is upon us. get baking. Have a look at: 'bluefish', but this is just an editor. If you're wanting something like Macromedia's 'DreamWeaver', I do not know of anything that exists for Linux, if at all. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ Does your mail provider give you a free online calendar? Yahoo! does. Get Yahoo! Mail http://uk.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB843F4F for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 04:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GCQ2lp020822; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:26:02 -0500 Received: from web.m-web.com (web.m-web.com [128.121.229.124]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GCPVlq020814 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:25:32 -0500 Received: from hotpop.com ([202.88.151.215]) by web.m-web.com (8.12.11/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2GCODHt093325; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:24:15 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <4056EE8C.2000703@hotpop.com> From: Raj Shekhar Organization: Media Web India User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net, gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: rajshekhar@hotpop.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:39:48 +0530 Status: RO Content-Length: 1081 Lines: 26 arthur graves wrote: > is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my own > web site? You might want to try out Nvu http://nvu.com/features.html . The screen shots look good but the major show stopper is that it is still in beta and I have not tried it out personally :( . Just letting everyone on the TAG list about another HTML editor and something to keep an eye on. -- \°°/ (oo) +--------------------ooO-- -Ooo---------------------------------+ |Raj Shekhar |My home: | |System Administrator |http://geocities.com/lunatech3007 | |Media Web India |My blog: | |http://www.netphotograph.com|http://lunatech.journalspace.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------+ |__|__| || || ooO Ooo _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6BD7402E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:00:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GEs2lp028556; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:54:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.85]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GErVlp028539 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:53:33 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3Fwz-0003IB-00; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:53:49 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <4056EE8C.2000703@hotpop.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4056EE8C.2000703@hotpop.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:53:49 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1785 Lines: 40 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:39:48PM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > arthur graves wrote: > >is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my own > >web site? Well, there's plenty of stuff out there that will help you write the HTML. However, there's usually quite a lot more to it than that, with questions that may result in more questions, etc. For example, where are you planning on hosting this site? Are you going to get a domain name of your own? Have you planned the structure of the site to accomodate future expansion? Do you need a server that can do secure transactions (SSL) so you can do business via the site? If you just want a one-page "I don't know why I wrote this, but I'm really cool!" page on Yahoo, it's a very different proposition from having htp://www.arthurgraves.com where you, e.g., sell your professional services and restaurant appliances. > You might want to try out Nvu http://nvu.com/features.html . The screen > shots look good but the major show stopper is that it is still in beta > and I have not tried it out personally :( . > > Just letting everyone on the TAG list about another HTML editor and > something to keep an eye on. In the finest tradition of Lindows (their sponsor), the size of the download - which seems to be nothing more than a little polish on top of Gecko - is 11MB. Mozilla's Composer isn't perfect, but it's pretty good for anyone just starting out and well beyond; seems like it would be plenty for Arthur's HTML needs. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:25:55 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE29403B for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:45:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GGf3lp017929; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:41:03 -0500 Received: from web40911.mail.yahoo.com (web40911.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.208]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GGeslp017924 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:40:55 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.80.129.254] by web40911.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:40:54 PST From: Bradley Chapman Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:40:54 -0800 (PST) Status: O Content-Length: 1267 Lines: 40 Mr. Okopnik, --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 05:39:48PM +0530, Raj Shekhar wrote: > > arthur graves wrote: > > >is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my own > > >web site? > > > You might want to try out Nvu http://nvu.com/features.html . The screen > > shots look good but the major show stopper is that it is still in beta > > and I have not tried it out personally :( . > > > > Just letting everyone on the TAG list about another HTML editor and > > something to keep an eye on. > > Mozilla's Composer isn't perfect, but it's pretty good for anyone just > starting out and well beyond; seems like it would be plenty for Arthur's > HTML needs. > There's also Bluefish, which I use - http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ I use it mostly because it has syntax highlighting and tabbed editing - it's overkill for me; I still write raw XHTML and CSS markup, and I validate it using the W3C validator at http://validator.w3.org/ Brad ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC0143F8B for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHw1lp005917; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:58:01 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GHvKlp005906 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:57:22 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3Ios-0003Vh-00; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:57:38 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:57:38 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1311 Lines: 34 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > Mr. Okopnik, Hi, Brad - I appreciate the info, but the one who needs it is the querent - and you forgot to include him in the recipient list. :) You might want to send him a copy. > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Mozilla's Composer isn't perfect, but it's pretty good for anyone just > > starting out and well beyond; seems like it would be plenty for Arthur's > > HTML needs. > > > > There's also Bluefish, which I use - http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ > > I use it mostly because it has syntax highlighting and tabbed editing - it's > overkill for me; I still write raw XHTML and CSS markup, and I validate it using > the W3C validator at http://validator.w3.org/ For myself, I'm fairly well aware of the different HTML editors available for Linux, particularly since I've been doing a fair amount of experimenting with CSS lately. I do almost all of my work in Vim, and use Composer for quick mock-ups and things like color tweaking. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91FD33FE5 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GI42lp023001; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:04:02 -0500 Received: from web41101.mail.yahoo.com (web41101.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.17]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GI3vlp022994 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:03:57 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316180356.6083.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41101.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:03:56 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:03:56 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1081 Lines: 31 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > For myself, I'm fairly well aware of the different HTML editors > available for Linux, particularly since I've been doing a fair amount of > experimenting with CSS lately. I do almost all of my work in Vim, and > use Composer for quick mock-ups and things like color tweaking. "Vim and a brain is all that is required" -- Thomas Adam (usually put at the top of all my scripts). -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ Too much spam in your inbox? Yahoo! Mail gives you the best spam protection for FREE! http://uk.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B727E3E6B for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:27:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GIN2lp007679; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:23:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GIMKlp007665 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:22:22 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3JD5-0003YS-00; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:22:39 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040316182239.GD13297@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> <20040316180356.6083.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316180356.6083.qmail@web41101.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:22:39 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 835 Lines: 20 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:03:56PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > For myself, I'm fairly well aware of the different HTML editors > > available for Linux, particularly since I've been doing a fair amount of > > experimenting with CSS lately. I do almost all of my work in Vim, and > > use Composer for quick mock-ups and things like color tweaking. > > "Vim and a brain is all that is required" -- Thomas Adam (usually put at > the top of all my scripts). [laugh] "... - Vim optional." I like it muchly. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FA353E04 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GI72lp023053; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:07:02 -0500 Received: from web41111.mail.yahoo.com (web41111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GI6mlp023048 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:06:48 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316180647.71446.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:06:47 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:06:47 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1058 Lines: 37 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > Mr. Okopnik, > > Hi, Brad - > > I appreciate the info, but the one who needs it is the querent - and you > forgot to include him in the recipient list. :) You might want to send > him a copy. Sigh, what we gonna do with these 'TAGbies', Ben?.... -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474CC3F02 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:33:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GIT2lp007776; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:29:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GIS0lp007767 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:28:02 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3JIa-0003ZI-00 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:28:20 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> <20040316180647.71446.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316180647.71446.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:28:20 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1071 Lines: 27 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:06:47PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > > Mr. Okopnik, > > > > Hi, Brad - > > > > I appreciate the info, but the one who needs it is the querent - and you > > forgot to include him in the recipient list. :) You might want to send > > him a copy. > > Sigh, what we gonna do with these 'TAGbies', Ben?.... Well, Brad gets _some_ credit - he does have '--polite' turned on, which counts for a bit - but, yeah, I'm a-thinkin' we should institute a "ten re-readings of and three dozen lashes with a wet noodle" rule for violations by those who actually subscribe to TAG. Self-policing, dontcha know. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B6653EAC for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:45:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GJd2lp028146; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:39:02 -0500 Received: from web40908.mail.yahoo.com (web40908.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.205]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GJcjlp028140 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:38:46 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.80.129.254] by web40908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:38:45 PST From: Bradley Chapman Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:38:45 -0800 (PST) Status: O Content-Length: 1441 Lines: 46 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 06:06:47PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > > > Mr. Okopnik, > > > > > > Hi, Brad - > > > > > > I appreciate the info, but the one who needs it is the querent - and you > > > forgot to include him in the recipient list. :) You might want to send > > > him a copy. > > > > Sigh, what we gonna do with these 'TAGbies', Ben?.... > > Well, Brad gets _some_ credit - he does have '--polite' turned on, which > counts for a bit - but, yeah, I'm a-thinkin' we should institute a > "ten re-readings of and > three dozen lashes with a wet noodle" rule for violations by those who > actually subscribe to TAG. Self-policing, dontcha know. OH NOES NOT TEH WET NOODLE!!!!1111 ;-) Yeah, I apologize for forgetting the original poster - I made the Cardinal Assumption Number One: the person was registered on the list. Should I recompile with --list-address-rules=strict and --enable-list-warnings=invalid,flamebait,repost,forgotaddr? Brad ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:22:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5349B3FC7 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:27:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I4N3lp027059; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:23:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I4M4lp027054 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:22:07 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3p2b-0005Np-00; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:21:57 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: Bradley Chapman Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , Bradley Chapman References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:21:57 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1498 Lines: 37 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 11:38:45AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Well, Brad gets _some_ credit - he does have '--polite' turned on, which > > counts for a bit - but, yeah, I'm a-thinkin' we should institute a > > "ten re-readings of and > > three dozen lashes with a wet noodle" rule for violations by those who > > actually subscribe to TAG. Self-policing, dontcha know. > > OH NOES NOT TEH WET NOODLE!!!!1111 > > ;-) Yes indeed, nothing less than The Dreaded Wet Noodle. I mean, we *must* maintain standards, and if we have to use cruel and unusual punishment, well, that's the price you pay... > Yeah, I apologize for forgetting the original poster - I made the Cardinal > Assumption Number One: the person was registered on the list. [grin] Happens to all of us sooner or later, Brad. As long as you stay aware of the issue, all is cool - someone here will spot it and fix it (we can always hope, right?) > Should I recompile with --list-address-rules=strict and > --enable-list-warnings=invalid,flamebait,repost,forgotaddr? The first one is usually sufficient, especially if you have "-Wall" enabled. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:01 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D3173EB5 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IGe2lp021116; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:40:02 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2IGdZlp021093 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:39:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 4974 invoked by uid 417); 18 Mar 2004 16:39:35 -0000 Received: from charleston-.softhome.net (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.2.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2004 16:39:35 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.30]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:39:31 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B3p4s-0000VE-CL for tag@linuxgazette.net; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:24:18 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.5 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:24:18 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 1591 Lines: 39 On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 23:21:57 -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 11:38:45AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > > > Well, Brad gets _some_ credit - he does have '--polite' turned on, which > > > counts for a bit - but, yeah, I'm a-thinkin' we should institute a > > > "ten re-readings of and > > > three dozen lashes with a wet noodle" rule for violations by those who > > > actually subscribe to TAG. Self-policing, dontcha know. > > > > OH NOES NOT TEH WET NOODLE!!!!1111 > > > > ;-) > > Yes indeed, nothing less than The Dreaded Wet Noodle. I mean, we *must* > maintain standards, and if we have to use cruel and unusual punishment, > well, that's the price you pay... An added benefit of using The Dreaded Wet Noodle is that if we use it long enough, it becomes "usual" punishment, and thus we can only be charged with using "cruel" punishment. > > Yeah, I apologize for forgetting the original poster - I made the Cardinal > > Assumption Number One: the person was registered on the list. > > [grin] Happens to all of us sooner or later, Brad. As long as you stay > aware of the issue, all is cool - someone here will spot it and fix it > (we can always hope, right?) Actually, if you hang around here long enough, you start to wish that people would stop noticing all your stupid mistakes. :-) Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17F8C3E0D for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:15:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J4B2lp026979; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:11:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J4AQlp026974 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:31 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B4BLH-0000Qp-00 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:43 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:43 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1087 Lines: 26 On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 09:24:18PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > An added benefit of using The Dreaded Wet Noodle is that if we use it > long enough, it becomes "usual" punishment, and thus we can only be > charged with using "cruel" punishment. It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the worsted of TAG tradition. > > [grin] Happens to all of us sooner or later, Brad. As long as you stay > > aware of the issue, all is cool - someone here will spot it and fix it > > (we can always hope, right?) > > Actually, if you hang around here long enough, you start to wish that > people would stop noticing all your stupid mistakes. :-) [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33AD13E78 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:29:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5P2lp014981; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:25:02 -0500 Received: from web41105.mail.yahoo.com (web41105.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.21]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2J5OPlp014966 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:24:26 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319052425.22547.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41105.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:24:25 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:24:25 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1804 Lines: 52 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the > worsted of TAG tradition. The immediate thread that springs to mind is the 'Great Riffle Caper'[1] > > > [grin] Happens to all of us sooner or later, Brad. As long as you > stay > > > aware of the issue, all is cool - someone here will spot it and fix > it > > > (we can always hope, right?) > > > > Actually, if you hang around here long enough, you start to wish that > > people would stop noticing all your stupid mistakes. :-) > > [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. > spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1. 2. Having 1. and 2. in the same sentence there, Ben only goes to prove your own point :) -- Thomas Adam [1] http://linuxgazette.net/issue73/lg_backpage.html#nottag ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 012173F21 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:59:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5t2lp016576; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:55:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5s9lp016559 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:54:11 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B4Cxi-0000Yc-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:54:30 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040319055430.GA2093@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040319052425.22547.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319052425.22547.qmail@web41105.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:54:30 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1238 Lines: 30 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 05:24:25AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the > > worsted of TAG tradition. > > The immediate thread that springs to mind is the 'Great Riffle Caper'[1] [laugh] Oh yeah - thanks for the reminder, Thomas! That was good for a couple of laughs. > > [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 1. > > spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. > ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > 1. 2. > > Having 1. and 2. in the same sentence there, Ben only goes to prove your > own point :) Uh... sorry, my friend, too subtle for me. 'Splain, please? * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946013EE2 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:11:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J672lp001256; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:07:02 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2J66Jlp001249 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:06:19 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319060618.70630.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:06:18 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040319055430.GA2093@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:06:18 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1021 Lines: 35 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Having 1. and 2. in the same sentence there, Ben only goes to prove > your > > own point :) > > Uh... sorry, my friend, too subtle for me. 'Splain, please? Ah, it was always a long shot, that. Trying to explain it would only lead to more confusion, heh, a speciality of mine :) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA35A3F0C for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5b1lp031947; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:37:01 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2J5aclp031942 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:36:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 24080 invoked by uid 417); 19 Mar 2004 05:36:38 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2004 05:36:38 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.17]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:36:32 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B4CYo-0002XW-79 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:28:46 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:28:46 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 1363 Lines: 34 On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:43 -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 09:24:18PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > > > An added benefit of using The Dreaded Wet Noodle is that if we use it > > long enough, it becomes "usual" punishment, and thus we can only be > > charged with using "cruel" punishment. > > It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the > worsted of TAG tradition. "crewel"? "worsted"? > > > [grin] Happens to all of us sooner or later, Brad. As long as you stay > > > aware of the issue, all is cool - someone here will spot it and fix it > > > (we can always hope, right?) > > > > Actually, if you hang around here long enough, you start to wish that > > people would stop noticing all your stupid mistakes. :-) > > [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to > spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. Yes, I agree, but due to my tendency to disagree with almost everything and/or nitpick for no good reason, many threads end with me realizing that I've been acting like an idiot. Which gets frustrating after a while. Not that you guys should calling me on that or anything. Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81E7F3F2E for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J5k5lp009588; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:46:05 -0500 Received: from web41106.mail.yahoo.com (web41106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.22]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2J5jHlp002684 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 00:45:17 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319054517.4994.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:45:17 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:45:17 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1146 Lines: 34 --- Jason Creighton wrote: > Yes, I agree, but due to my tendency to disagree with almost everything > and/or nitpick for no good reason, many threads end with me realizing > that I've been acting like an idiot. Which gets frustrating after a > while. Not that you guys should calling me on that or anything. Sorry, Jason, but "many threads end with me realizing" really ought to read "every thread ends with me realizing" :) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:17 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EBFD3F21 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J682lp001293; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:08:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2J66vlp001253 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:07:00 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B4DA8-0000Zd-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:07:20 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:07:20 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1965 Lines: 50 On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 10:28:46PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:43 -0500, > Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the > > worsted of TAG tradition. > > "crewel"? "worsted"? Not having a dictionary must really suck... >From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]: Crewel \Crew"el\ (kr[udd]"[e^]l), n. [Perh. for clewel, dim. of clew a ball of thread; or cf. D. krul curl, E. curl. [root]26.] Worsted yarn, slackly twisted, used for embroidery. That should give you a clew. :) > > [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to > > spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. > > Yes, I agree, but due to my tendency to disagree with almost everything > and/or nitpick for no good reason, many threads end with me realizing > that I've been acting like an idiot. Which gets frustrating after a > while. Not that you guys should calling me on that or anything. Sheesh, Jason - you're your own toughest critic. Ease up. You're not an idiot; we all make mistakes. That's why I like the playful air we often maintain here (and your own sense of humor is a great addition to this): playing implies being able to make mistakes without serious consequences, and that's how all us mammals learn best (IMO.) So feel free to nitpick away. I'll be sure to tell you if I ever find it annoying; I trust that you (and anyone else here in a similar situation) will be equally honest. [I'm] trying to figure out how to carry a grudge, but I can't find the handles. -- Ryk, in a.p. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:29:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:29:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B9A3EA2 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2K0S3lp015280; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:28:03 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2K0Rxlp015275 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:27:59 -0500 Received: (qmail 10281 invoked by uid 417); 20 Mar 2004 00:27:58 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2004 00:27:58 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.57]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:27:56 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B4OhV-00032O-KL for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:26:33 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:26:33 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 3064 Lines: 78 On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 01:07:20 -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Thu, Mar 18, 2004 at 10:28:46PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:10:43 -0500, > > Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > > It can only be crewel punishment if this thread winds on and on, in the > > > worsted of TAG tradition. > > > > "crewel"? "worsted"? > > Not having a dictionary must really suck... It's ruf, but I manage sumhow. > From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 [gcide]: > > Crewel \Crew"el\ (kr[udd]"[e^]l), n. [Perh. for clewel, dim. of > clew a ball of thread; or cf. D. krul curl, E. curl. > [root]26.] > Worsted yarn, slackly twisted, used for embroidery. > > That should give you a clew. :) Heh heh, it does. I should have realized that you were making some subtle pun that goes right over the heads of poor persons like myself who do not have a dictionary OR nuclear weapons. (Because if you have nukes, it doesn't matter if you get the joke. You just smile grimly, say "that's not funny" and push the Big Red Button.) > > > [blink] Didn't work with me, I guess. I _want_ the other Gangsters to > > > spot me - I'd rather be corrected and learn than put out bad info. > > > > Yes, I agree, but due to my tendency to disagree with almost everything > > and/or nitpick for no good reason, many threads end with me realizing > > that I've been acting like an idiot. Which gets frustrating after a > > while. Not that you guys should calling me on that or anything. > > Sheesh, Jason - you're your own toughest critic. "If I don't degrade myself, who will? Sometimes you have to stand in the gap!" -- Me, tounge in cheek, on being told something similar. Yeah, I am a little hard on myself. The main thing I'm refering to there is that I find it hard to admit that I don't have a valid point. So when someone points this out, I feel the need to argue in circles for a couple of posts before finally admitting it. > Ease up. You're not an idiot; we all make mistakes. That's why I like > the playful air we often maintain here (and your own sense of humor is > a great addition to this): playing implies being able to make mistakes > without serious consequences, and that's how all us mammals learn best > (IMO.) Yes, I enjoy the puns, the wordplay, the stunning sarcasm, etc. It's great fun. (AND educational? Shock horror!) > So feel free to nitpick away. I'll be sure to tell you if I ever find it > annoying; I trust that you (and anyone else here in a similar situation) > will be equally honest. *nods* > [I'm] trying to figure out how to carry a grudge, but I can't find the > handles. > -- Ryk, in a.p. Printers don't come with printer cables, and grudges don't come with handles. However, with a little practice, holding them becomes quite easy, and the trick is in the letting go. Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F006F3FBE for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 20:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M4i3lp015098; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:44:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.82]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M4hqlp015093 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:43:55 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5HIJ-0004F4-00 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:44:11 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:44:11 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 3354 Lines: 74 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 11:26:33AM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > > Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > That should give you a clew. :) > > Heh heh, it does. I should have realized that you were making some > subtle pun that goes right over the heads of poor persons like myself > who do not have a dictionary OR nuclear weapons. (Because if you have > nukes, it doesn't matter if you get the joke. You just smile grimly, say > "that's not funny" and push the Big Red Button.) It's the Nuclear Rule: he who has the nukes makes the rules. Apt to get you in trouble with snipers and such, though (I've been whupping some of the local boat kids playing Halo on their X-Box at the marina. The sniper rifle can indeed be mightier than the tank. :) Power imbalances just _beg_ for equalization... > > Sheesh, Jason - you're your own toughest critic. > > "If I don't degrade myself, who will? Sometimes you have to stand in the > gap!" > -- Me, tounge in cheek, on being told something similar. Degradation, graceful or otherwise, is only for _testing,_ dear boy. You do a regression series, then bring the system back to its pre-test state - not leave it degraded. (Regression testing failure, in case y'all haven't heard, is the elephant that Micr0s0ft is currently trying to get the public to swallow. They released a batch of patches to deal with the latest "security threats" and several other issues besides; then, they had to release a larger batch of patches to patch the patches when these things brought down large numbers of their victims^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hclients' machines. Watch for batches of patches to patch the patch-patching patches in the future, growing logarithmically...) > Yeah, I am a little hard on myself. The main thing I'm refering to there > is that I find it hard to admit that I don't have a valid point. So when > someone points this out, I feel the need to argue in circles for a > couple of posts before finally admitting it. In a previous article, longword@newsguy.com said: > Unless you count an ellipsis with an extra period, which would be > being spectacularly pedantic. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Welcome to Usenet. Have a nice day. -- Paul Tomblin Welcome to TAG. If you get too annoying, we'll send our resident logicians, Guido and Luca, to your house to elucidate a few of the finer points. Guido even has a cousin who's a patella reattachment specialist, and will leave his card nailed where you're *guaranteed* not to miss it. > > [I'm] trying to figure out how to carry a grudge, but I can't find the > > handles. > > -- Ryk, in a.p. > > Printers don't come with printer cables, and grudges don't come with > handles. However, with a little practice, holding them becomes quite > easy, and the trick is in the letting go. Avoiding that sort of practice is very important, then... I've been dodging it, and similar things, for most of my life; cleaning off the residue from when they manage to catch up is a nasty, difficult job. One worth doing, though. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B1353FBD for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MG09lp005811; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:00:10 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFx5lp005249 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:59:05 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MFrqc25101 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:53:52 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 11:44:11PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:53:52 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 890 Lines: 21 On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 11:44:11PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > Welcome to TAG. If you get too annoying, we'll send our resident > logicians, Guido and Luca, to your house to elucidate a few of the finer > points. Guido even has a cousin who's a patella reattachment specialist, > and will leave his card nailed where you're *guaranteed* not to miss it. Which floor does Luca live on? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 085633E28 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:31:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGQ2lp007089; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:26:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGPOlp007082 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:25:26 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5SFE-00052w-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:25:44 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316182820.GE13297@callahans.org> <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:25:44 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 795 Lines: 18 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:53:52AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 11:44:11PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Welcome to TAG. If you get too annoying, we'll send our resident > > logicians, Guido and Luca, to your house to elucidate a few of the finer > > points. Guido even has a cousin who's a patella reattachment specialist, > > and will leave his card nailed where you're *guaranteed* not to miss it. > > Which floor does Luca live on? Da basement, o'course. He's a debased individual. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA763F1E for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:47:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MNg2lp015590; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:42:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MNfflq015585 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:41:42 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.30 #1) id 1B5Z36-0004NP-Th by authid for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:41:40 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040316193845.19025.qmail@web40908.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:41:40 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 393 Lines: 16 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > Which floor does Luca live on? > > Da basement, o'course. He's a debased individual. You are _so_ fired. -- Cheers, find / -user your -name base -print | xargs chown us:us Rick Moen rick@linuxmafia.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC1073F49 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3HIlp011446; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:17:18 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3GJlp007287 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:16:21 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5cOv-0005x8-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:16:25 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040318042157.GE20093@callahans.org> <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:16:25 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 712 Lines: 21 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:41:40PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > > Which floor does Luca live on? > > > > Da basement, o'course. He's a debased individual. > > You are _so_ fired. Now it's my turn to stand there blinking, with an "insufficient information" neon sign over my head. Is it a movie reference or something? I've heard it used, and it gets a few points for cute, but - huh? * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A50913D1F for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3U6lp012124; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:30:06 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3Ttlp011621 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:29:56 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2N3ObJ28913 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:24:37 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:16:25PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:24:37 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1149 Lines: 33 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:16:25PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:41:40PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > > > > Which floor does Luca live on? > > > > > > Da basement, o'course. He's a debased individual. > > > > You are _so_ fired. > > Now it's my turn to stand there blinking, with an "insufficient > information" neon sign over my head. Is it a movie reference or > something? I've heard it used, and it gets a few points for cute, but - > huh? I believe he just thought that people who would make puns like that shouldn't be tolerated in a respectable whorehouse. :-) Cheers, - jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B6C3FCB for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:01:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3u2lp013159; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:56:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3t7lp013144 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:55:09 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5d0g-00060j-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:55:26 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:55:26 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 913 Lines: 25 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:24:37PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:16:25PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 03:41:40PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > > > > > You are _so_ fired. > > > > Now it's my turn to stand there blinking, with an "insufficient > > information" neon sign over my head. Is it a movie reference or > > something? I've heard it used, and it gets a few points for cute, but - > > huh? > > I believe he just thought that people who would make puns like that > shouldn't be tolerated in a respectable whorehouse. > > :-) Oooh, you... you... I couldn't agree more. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 986073FCB for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3w2lp013206; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:58:02 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3vllp013201 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:57:48 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2N3qTi30194 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:52:29 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:55:26PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:52:29 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 921 Lines: 30 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:55:26PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > huh? > > > > I believe he just thought that people who would make puns like that > > shouldn't be tolerated in a respectable whorehouse. > > > > :-) > > Oooh, you... you... I couldn't agree more. :) Thank you. Nice to know I can get *something* right today. Cause, overall, the line up-against-the-wall is growing quickly, and without bounds. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEADF3F57 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N4d2lp031970; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:39:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.81]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N4cWlp031963 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:38:34 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5dgi-00063C-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:38:52 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:38:52 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 883 Lines: 28 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:52:29PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:55:26PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > huh? > > > > > > I believe he just thought that people who would make puns like that > > > shouldn't be tolerated in a respectable whorehouse. > > > > > > :-) > > > > Oooh, you... you... I couldn't agree more. :) > > Thank you. > > Nice to know I can get *something* right today. > > Cause, overall, the line up-against-the-wall is growing quickly, and > without bounds. Cheer up, Jay - that means there's an infinitely small chance that they'll pick you out. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:34:50 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:34:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9F9A4051 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NGe3lp008582; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:40:03 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NGdulp008561 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:39:56 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2NGYUP04660 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:34:30 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323113430.C3912@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:38:52PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:34:30 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 861 Lines: 26 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:38:52PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Nice to know I can get *something* right today. > > > > Cause, overall, the line up-against-the-wall is growing quickly, and > > without bounds. > > Cheer up, Jay - that means there's an infinitely small chance that > they'll pick you out. You misunderstand. I was the one with the gun. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:35:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:35:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF7E14084 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:41:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKa4lp022273; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:36:04 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.81]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKYvlp022249 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:35:00 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5scD-0006pT-00 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:35:13 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323203513.GB25895@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org> <20040323113430.C3912@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323113430.C3912@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:35:13 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1066 Lines: 27 On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:34:30AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:38:52PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > Nice to know I can get *something* right today. > > > > > > Cause, overall, the line up-against-the-wall is growing quickly, and > > > without bounds. > > > > Cheer up, Jay - that means there's an infinitely small chance that > > they'll pick you out. > > You misunderstand. > > I was the one with the gun. Oh. Well, what are you complaining about, then? Seems to me like the perfect entertainment on a nice day like today. Just make sure you have plenty of those explosive slugs (on sale by the billion at your local Pentagon) and remember to drag a few of the bodies home (what with the Atkins diet and all, meat prices have become outrageous!) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:35:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:35:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4F6409E for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2O5M2lp003378; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:22:02 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2O5LDlp003370 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:21:14 -0500 Received: (qmail 19800 invoked by uid 417); 24 Mar 2004 05:21:13 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2004 05:21:13 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.38]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:21:11 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B60ZS-0000DL-J0 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:04:54 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040323220454.28dcebc3.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040323203513.GB25895@callahans.org> References: <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org> <20040323113430.C3912@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323203513.GB25895@callahans.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:04:54 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 1205 Lines: 32 On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:35:13 -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:34:30AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:38:52PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > > Nice to know I can get *something* right today. > > > > > > > > Cause, overall, the line up-against-the-wall is growing quickly, and > > > > without bounds. > > > > > > Cheer up, Jay - that means there's an infinitely small chance that > > > they'll pick you out. > > > > You misunderstand. > > > > I was the one with the gun. > > Oh. Well, what are you complaining about, then? Seems to me like the > perfect entertainment on a nice day like today. Just make sure you have > plenty of those explosive slugs (on sale by the billion at your local > Pentagon) and remember to drag a few of the bodies home (what with the > Atkins diet and all, meat prices have become outrageous!) Local Pentagon my eye! There's only one! And the service is horrible! They always ask you *why* you need large quantities of C4. Avoid if at all possible. Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:37:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:37:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB223F70 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:48:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OIh3lp001565; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:43:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.84]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OIgBlp001551 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:42:15 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B6DKf-0000xW-00 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:42:29 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040324184229.GE2579@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040322222437.C27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323035526.GA23089@callahans.org> <20040322225229.E27061@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323043851.GC23089@callahans.org> <20040323113430.C3912@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040323203513.GB25895@callahans.org> <20040323220454.28dcebc3.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323220454.28dcebc3.androflux@softhome.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:42:29 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1479 Lines: 39 On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 10:04:54PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:35:13 -0500, > Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:34:30AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > > > > > You misunderstand. > > > > > > I was the one with the gun. > > > > Oh. Well, what are you complaining about, then? Seems to me like the > > perfect entertainment on a nice day like today. Just make sure you have > > plenty of those explosive slugs (on sale by the billion at your local > > Pentagon) and remember to drag a few of the bodies home (what with the > > Atkins diet and all, meat prices have become outrageous!) > > Local Pentagon my eye! That _is_ an odd location for one, yes. > There's only one! And the service is horrible! For several different meanings of the word, in fact. > They always ask you *why* you need large quantities of C4. Avoid if at > all possible. Oh, not at all! It's very simple, actually: if you tell them it's for Freedom, or God, or Apple Pie, or Mother, their eyes glaze and they just hand it over, as much as you want. Makes you _really_ wonder about their relationship with Mom, and their apple pie must taste awful... * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E5F3E54 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:43:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3c2lp028584; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:38:02 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.COM [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N3bClq028579 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:37:13 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.30 #1) id 1B5cj1-0005tB-Lr by authid for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:37:11 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323033711.GR22228@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040317212418.19ee95ff.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. X-gazette-tag: Rick Moen User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:37:11 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 2770 Lines: 82 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > You are _so_ fired. > > Now it's my turn to stand there blinking, with an "insufficient > information" neon sign over my head. Is it a movie reference or > something? I've heard it used, and it gets a few points for cute, but > - huh? Now that you've asked, I'm curious, too, and am attempting to chase down the expression. I'm betting that one major milestone was its use in an episode of the short-lived but wonderful television series "The Lone Gunmen", concerning the luftmenschen-like main characters' enthusiastic but somewhat hapless office assistant, Jimmy Bond: Frohike: "Son of a..." [He's tossing files on the floor] Byers: "Frohike... we've got a deadline here. I need your column ten minutes ago" Frohike: "I need the file on the Warren Commission in order to finish it." Langly: "Try looking under 'W'." Frohike: "Oh, you moron." [He finds the file] "He files the Warren Commission under 'T' 'The Warren Commission'." Langly: "Ah, cut the guy some slack." Frohike: "Oh, and look... here's 'The Teapot Dome Scandal', 'The Grassy Knoll'. I say we fire his ass." Langly: "You've just got to know how to handle him. Keep it simple. Like, I asked him to clean my keyboard." [He holds the keyboard up and water pours onto the floor] "Byers." Byers: "You're both forgetting it's his life savings keeping us in print." Frohike: "I don't care, he's a menace." Byers: "He believes in our mission. He's got a good heart. And... he's so happy to be here. If we let him go it will crush him." Jimmy: "Crush who?" [He enters the office] "Who's going to get crushed?" Byers: "Jimmy... We've been talking. We're not sure this is the right place for you." Jimmy: "What, are you kidding? Working with guys like you, it's a dream." Byers: "Jimmy..." Jimmy: "I've been looking my whole life for something like this. To feel like I make a difference, to work with men of integrity, to fight to make this a better country. You three, you're heroes. I am so proud to be a part of this team. Just talking about it... look at that, goosebumps." Frohike: "You are so fired." I'm finding that the expression is difficult to chase down, but I'm better that it goes way back. One source speculates that "so" as a superlative is "a great-grandchild of Valley speak", but I suspect that's off by a decade or two. Time to call in the Lexicographic Irregulars! -- Cheers, "Don't use Outlook. Outlook is really just a security Rick Moen hole with a small e-mail client attached to it." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Brian Trosko in r.a.sf.w.r-j _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA5273F63 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:42:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N4b2lp031931; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:37:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.81]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N4aflp031926 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:36:43 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5der-00062C-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:36:57 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323043657.GB23089@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319041043.GA969@callahans.org> <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040323033711.GR22228@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323033711.GR22228@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:36:57 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1623 Lines: 43 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 07:37:11PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > Byers: "Jimmy... We've been talking. We're not sure this is the right > place for you." > > Jimmy: "What, are you kidding? Working with guys like you, it's a > dream." > > Byers: "Jimmy..." > > Jimmy: "I've been looking my whole life for something like this. To feel > like I make a difference, to work with men of integrity, to fight to > make this a better country. You three, you're heroes. I am so proud to > be a part of this team. Just talking about it... look at that, > goosebumps." > > Frohike: "You are so fired." > > > > I'm finding that the expression is difficult to chase down, but I'm > better that it goes way back. One source speculates that "so" as a > superlative is "a great-grandchild of Valley speak", but I suspect > that's off by a decade or two. Now that you've got me thinking about it, it's a _very_ Yiddishe sort of emphasis; in fact, although my Yiddish is marginal, I can definitely identify the (very common) construction it came from. Attempts to translate it into English ("_so_ fired", "_such_ a deal", etc.) do capture a bit (but far from all) of the flavor. Add an eye-roll at the appropriate moment, and it's Mel Brooks and Jackie Mason all the way. > Time to call in the Lexicographic Irregulars! [perk] We have troops for this? * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:35:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7101D4061 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:59:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJs3lp003367; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:54:03 -0500 Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NJrBlq003349 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:53:11 -0500 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.30 #1) id 1B5rxW-0003Vz-Ds by authid for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:53:10 -0800 To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323195310.GT22228@linuxmafia.com> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040318222846.7128cea1.androflux@softhome.net> <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040323033711.GR22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323043657.GB23089@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323043657.GB23089@callahans.org> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:53:10 -0800 Status: O Content-Length: 1562 Lines: 30 Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > Now that you've got me thinking about it, it's a _very_ Yiddishe sort of > emphasis; in fact, although my Yiddish is marginal, I can definitely > identify the (very common) construction it came from. Attempts to > translate it into English ("_so_ fired", "_such_ a deal", etc.) do > capture a bit (but far from all) of the flavor. Add an eye-roll at the > appropriate moment, and it's Mel Brooks and Jackie Mason all the way. I was _thinking_ it sounded pretty Yiddish, but one of the side-effects (bubeleh) of having grown up around American popular culture of the 1960s -- Jay Ward's peerlessly subversive television cartoons; Marvel comics; songs by Alan Sherman, Stan Freberg, and Tom Lehrer; short stories by Leo Rosten -- was adopting a good dollop of Yiddish diction without being quite aware of it -- and sometimes being unaware that it isn't generic English. I find myself saying things to my wife like "Not so much with the cayenne pepper, for you" -- followed later by "That was _too_ a Norwegian-American expression!" (I keep trying to convince Deirdre that words like "shmendrick" are borrowed directly from the Norsk, but she's not buying it.) -- Cheers, "A raccoon tangled with a 23,000 volt line, today. The results Rick Moen blacked out 1400 homes and, of course, one raccoon." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Steel City News _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:35:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:35:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6789E4057 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:26:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLL4lp008642; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:21:04 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.81]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NLK4lp008626 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:20:07 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5tJi-0006rH-00 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:20:10 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040323212009.GC25895@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319060719.GB2093@callahans.org> <20040319112633.612d88fe.androflux@softhome.net> <20040322044411.GF15890@callahans.org> <20040322105352.C21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322162544.GD19015@callahans.org> <20040322234140.GM22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323031625.GA22797@callahans.org> <20040323033711.GR22228@linuxmafia.com> <20040323043657.GB23089@callahans.org> <20040323195310.GT22228@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040323195310.GT22228@linuxmafia.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:20:10 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2896 Lines: 57 On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 11:53:10AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ben Okopnik (ben@callahans.org): > > > Now that you've got me thinking about it, it's a _very_ Yiddishe sort of > > emphasis; in fact, although my Yiddish is marginal, I can definitely > > identify the (very common) construction it came from. Attempts to > > translate it into English ("_so_ fired", "_such_ a deal", etc.) do > > capture a bit (but far from all) of the flavor. Add an eye-roll at the > > appropriate moment, and it's Mel Brooks and Jackie Mason all the way. > > I was _thinking_ it sounded pretty Yiddish, but one of the side-effects > (bubeleh) of having grown up around American popular culture of the 1960s > -- Jay Ward's peerlessly subversive television cartoons; Marvel comics; > songs by Alan Sherman, Stan Freberg, and Tom Lehrer; short stories by > Leo Rosten -- was adopting a good dollop of Yiddish diction without > being quite aware of it -- and sometimes being unaware that it isn't > generic English. A while ago, I saw a review for a book called "The Haunted Smile", subtitled "The Story of Jewish Comedians in America". The author brought up a few very interesting points about the necessity of humor in the Jewish culture as well as the fact that what Jews did here was not so much assimilation as acculturation - so I think that your experience is far from unique. From the early days of vaudeville and the Three Stooges to Woody Allen, Lenny Bruce, and Adam Sandler, the impact of Jewish humor has left a definite stamp on America. > I find myself saying things to my wife like "Not so > much with the cayenne pepper, for you" -- followed later by "That was > _too_ a Norwegian-American expression!" [LOL] Why, of course - "Viking" is an ancient Hebrew expression that meant "trading" (with an eye-roll at the appropriate moment.) It's all the fault of the English, you know - "trading" just sounds very close to "raiding", and the thing with the axes, well, they just talked with their hands a lot, and if they happened to be holding something at the time, well... > (I keep trying to convince Deirdre that words like "shmendrick" are > borrowed directly from the Norsk, but she's not buying it.) Oh, I'm sure it was in the ancient writings somewhere - something like And it may be said that no one has seen very fearful sights who might not see that: how Thor flashed fiery glances at the Shmendrick, and the Shmendrick in turn stared up toward him from below and blew venom. Those were *real* shmendricks in the old days; now, all we've got is /verkakte/ imitations of the real thing. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 278B53FB1 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:13:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H192lp015553; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:09:02 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H18mlp015548 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:08:48 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B3PUz-0005sb-00; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:35:33 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2H15VQY022124; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:35:32 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:35:26 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040317010526.GB17683@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:35:26 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 616 Lines: 17 On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > There's also Bluefish, which I use - http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ > > I use it mostly because it has syntax highlighting and tabbed editing - it's > overkill for me; I still write raw XHTML and CSS markup, and I validate it using > the W3C validator at http://validator.w3.org/ You could also reduce the load on the w3c server by using "tidy" which is their downloadable validator (written in Perl). Kapil. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:59 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33C5E3F3C for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGa3lp004453; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:36:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HGZ2lp004437 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:35:04 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B3e0m-0004sQ-00; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:35:20 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040317163520.GA17426@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> <20040317010526.GB17683@imsc.res.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040317010526.GB17683@imsc.res.in> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:35:20 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1337 Lines: 31 On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:35:26AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 08:40:54AM -0800, Bradley Chapman wrote: > > > > There's also Bluefish, which I use - http://bluefish.openoffice.nl/ > > > > I use it mostly because it has syntax highlighting and tabbed editing - it's > > overkill for me; I still write raw XHTML and CSS markup, and I validate it using > > the W3C validator at http://validator.w3.org/ > > You could also reduce the load on the w3c server by using "tidy" which > is their downloadable validator (written in Perl). Thanks, Kapil, that's a handy tip! I already ran "tidy" on my HTML, but I also have a link that says ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but does it validate?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- on the page itself. I hadn't used it yet, and it's nice to know that I don't actually need to. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:22:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:22:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B10B3F22 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 21:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I5a3lp015019; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:36:03 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2I5ZHlp015013 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:35:18 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B3qBR-0004DJ-00; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:05:09 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2I5Z8QY005781; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:05:09 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:05:03 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-ID: <20040318053503.GA4258@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , gravesarthur@hotmail.com References: <20040316145349.GA12625@callahans.org> <20040316164054.79745.qmail@web40911.mail.yahoo.com> <20040316175738.GB13297@callahans.org> <20040317010526.GB17683@imsc.res.in> <20040317163520.GA17426@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040317163520.GA17426@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:05:03 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1359 Lines: 39 Hello, On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 11:35:20AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Wed, Mar 17, 2004 at 06:35:26AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > > You could also reduce the load on the w3c server by using "tidy" which > > is their downloadable validator (written in Perl). > > Thanks, Kapil, that's a handy tip! I already ran "tidy" on my HTML, but > I also have a link that says Since Ben thanked me I checked my info more carefully :-) What I "meant" was the program "tidy-proxy" which allows you to view pages through "tidy". So you run "tidy-proxy" (you also need to install "tidy"), then set your web proxy as "http://localhost:9090/". After this any page you view will be examined. In the process, I also found "wdg-html-validator" which is actually a "local" version of the validator. It depends on lots of SGML stuff and so I suppose does a "formal" validation using the DTD's and so on. I haven't tried it out. You can also ask "tidy-proxy" to use "wdg-html-validator" with the "--action v" switch. Regards, Kapil. DISCLAIMER(!): "tidy" "tidy-proxy" and "wdg-html-validator" are the Debian package names. If you use any other distribution you will probably find equivalent packages with similar names. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39DAA3FA0 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:00:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKu3lp016126; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:56:03 -0500 Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GKt5lp016114 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:55:05 -0500 Received: from beltazoid.catz (xmorph.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29C352A2E1C; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:52:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pete.catz (pete.catz [192.168.1.10]) by beltazoid.catz (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B643D02E; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:52:05 +0000 (GMT) From: Pete Jewell To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040316205205.2896d047.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Doh! X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:52:05 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 873 Lines: 28 On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:58:37 +0000 "arthur graves" wrote: > is there a programme i can get my paws on that will help me build my > own web site? In addition to the other fine suggestions, there's also webmake, to found here - http://webmake.taint.org/. It's a "simple offline content management system written in Perl that creates Web sites using templates". There are a couple of introductory articles on the Linux.com website, although the howto/manual on the webmake website is pretty good too. *) Article 1 - http://docs.linux.com/article.pl?sid=03/12/17/2142222 *) Article 2 - http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/01/28/2137228 *) Webmake Manual - http://webmake.taint.org/doc.html -- Pete Jewell _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:11 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91AEF4043 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GL63lp000779; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:06:03 -0500 Received: from web41111.mail.yahoo.com (web41111.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GL5wlp000771 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:05:58 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316210558.28177.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41111.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:05:58 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: gravesarthur@hotmail.com In-Reply-To: <20040316205205.2896d047.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:05:58 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 874 Lines: 28 --- Pete Jewell wrote: > It's a "simple offline content management system written in Perl that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pete, you're swearing, again!! -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ____________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6DA4046 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:30:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLQ2lp017892; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:26:02 -0500 Received: from smtp.nildram.co.uk (smtp.nildram.co.uk [195.112.4.54]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLPDlp017884 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:25:13 -0500 Received: from beltazoid.catz (xmorph.gotadsl.co.uk [62.3.235.175]) by smtp.nildram.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1633924F538 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:25:09 +0000 (GMT) Received: from pete.catz (pete.catz [192.168.1.10]) by beltazoid.catz (Postfix) with SMTP id 640A9D02E for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:25:12 +0000 (GMT) From: Pete Jewell To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb Message-Id: <20040316212512.73ebbef3.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <20040316210558.28177.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040316205205.2896d047.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> <20040316210558.28177.qmail@web41111.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Doh! X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-pc-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:25:12 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 606 Lines: 22 On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:05:58 +0000 (GMT) Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Pete Jewell wrote: > > > It's a "simple offline content management system written in Perl > > that > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Pete, you're swearing, again!! Lol - are you telling me that Heather's scripts don't constitute a "simple offline content management system"? Whoops - there I go again ;-) -- Pete Jewell _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:12 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5674046 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLU5lp018336; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:30:05 -0500 Received: from web41110.mail.yahoo.com (web41110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.26]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GLTwlp017945 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:29:58 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316212958.88745.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:29:57 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] rhubarb To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040316212512.73ebbef3.pete@phraxos.nildram.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:29:57 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1062 Lines: 34 --- Pete Jewell wrote: > Lol - are you telling me that Heather's scripts don't constitute a > "simple offline content management system"? Whoops - there I go again > ;-) No, Heather and I have a really good system of scripts we both maintain. CMS nothing. Harmony, control and flexibility to get TAG done at the end of the month, yes :) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 271193F11 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:48:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLi1lp002482; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:44:01 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLhtlp002477 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:57 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.44]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BFE16C346 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:55 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1378 Lines: 33 OK guys, here's a n00b question for you that probably crosses over into Sys Admin territory. What steps should someone follow after Linux crashes to figure out what went wrong? Where do I start, and where do I look for clues? Are all the logs found in /var/log, or are there others? In what order should I look at the logs, and what should I look for? Any pro-active steps I should be taking to get more info, should it happen again? The specifics of my case: my file server (a 750 Mhz Athlon running Suse 9) simply locked up, and I couldn't get anything to display (GUI or command line). I knew the machine was in trouble, when it didn't respond to pings. I had to hit the reset button to get it back (and deal with fsck, naturally). Funny thing is, the system clock reset itself to 28 minutes after midnight (when it should have read the middle of the afternoon), but didn't loose the date. Odd, that. The machine's been running 24/7 for about three weeks now (I set it up around then), and no sign of problems until now. I searched the archives first for relevant articles, but didn't see any. Thanks, as always. Tom Brown P.S., You'll never guess what Mozilla Thunderbird's spell checker recommends for the word "fsck". LOL! _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A63D4048 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2GLs3lp019451; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:54:03 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2GLrplp019441 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:51 -0500 Message-ID: <20040316215351.69602.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:53:51 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:53:51 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1827 Lines: 57 --- Tom Brown wrote: > What steps should someone follow after Linux crashes to figure out what > went wrong? > Where do I start, and where do I look for clues? > Are all the logs found in /var/log, or are there others? > In what order should I look at the logs, and what should I look for? > Any pro-active steps I should be taking to get more info, should it > happen again? It depends what you think went wrong. Essentially: /var/log/messages is where syslogd will dump all its data and so is the best place to look. But there may well be application specific data in /var/log (XFree86.0.log) is one such example. > The specifics of my case: my file server (a 750 Mhz Athlon running Suse > 9) simply locked up, and I couldn't get anything to display (GUI or > command line). I knew the machine was in trouble, when it didn't respon This might be framebuffer related. At the lilo/grub prompt, type: linux video=vga16:off to see if that has any effect. There have been snippets of these effects metioned in the past. The one that springs to mind is: http://linuxgazette.net/issue74/tag/9.html -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:26:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 311A43FC5 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H4M1lp011214; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:22:01 -0500 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2H4Ltlp011209 for ; Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:21:55 -0500 Received: from cpc2-stev1-3-0-cust68.lutn.cable.ntl.com ([213.107.44.68]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.37 201-229-121-137-20020806) with ESMTP id <20040317042113.VRF14417.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@cpc2-stev1-3-0-cust68.lutn.cable.ntl.com>; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:21:13 +0000 From: Neil Youngman To: tag@linuxgazette.net, Tom Brown Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash User-Agent: KMail/1.5.3 References: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> In-Reply-To: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200403170421.54273.n.youngman@ntlworld.com> Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:21:54 +0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1038 Lines: 22 On Tuesday 16 Mar 2004 9:43 pm, Tom Brown wrote: > The specifics of my case: my file server (a 750 Mhz Athlon running Suse > 9) simply locked up, and I couldn't get anything to display (GUI or > command line). I knew the machine was in trouble, when it didn't respond > to pings. I had to hit the reset button to get it back (and deal with > fsck, naturally). Funny thing is, the system clock reset itself to 28 > minutes after midnight (when it should have read the middle of the > afternoon), but didn't loose the date. Odd, that. The machine's been > running 24/7 for about three weeks now (I set it up around then), and no > sign of problems until now. The only time I've had Linux lock up this badly, It was a memory issue. Nothing showed in the logs and memtest86 didn't show anything, but replacing the memory changed the situation from lock ups twice a day to total reliability. Neil Youngman _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 12:27:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 454E03FD7 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:03:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HHx2lp024788; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:59:02 -0500 Received: from natsmtp00.webmailer.de (natsmtp00.rzone.de [81.169.145.165]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HHwYlp024772 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:58:34 -0500 Received: from khhlap.local.de (dialin-145-254-243-027.arcor-ip.net [145.254.243.27]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2HHwVmf020733 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:58:32 +0100 (MET) Received: from khhlap.local.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by khhlap.local.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id i2H8cQc15693 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:38:26 +0100 From: Karl-Heinz Herrmann To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash Message-Id: <20040317093826.256bf5c4.kh1dump@khherrmann.de> In-Reply-To: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> References: <4057751B.5010202@ceinetworks.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: K.-H. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:38:26 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 2012 Lines: 51 Hi, On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:43:55 -0500 Tom Brown wrote: > What steps should someone follow after Linux crashes to figure out what > went wrong? > Where do I start, and where do I look for clues? > Are all the logs found in /var/log, or are there others? > In what order should I look at the logs, and what should I look for? > Any pro-active steps I should be taking to get more info, should it > happen again? Well, generally what I would do is: hunt down all info of the last crash (logfiles, register dump,...) Usually I would also suggest: /usr/src/linux/Documentation/BUG-HUNTING but in your case it won't help much. Somewhere is a txt file decribing what to do with kernerl register dumps (finding in what routine it actually crashed). > 9) simply locked up, and I couldn't get anything to display (GUI or > command line). I knew the machine was in trouble, when it didn't respond That's bad -- complete lockup and no register dump on screen leaves pretty few clues around for diagnostics. Any drive LED's on? There are ways of still getting kernel info (pro active steps): * plug an old printer into the lpX port and declare it the system console (kernel kompile parameter, and I don't know how exactly you activate it -- maybe inittab). * When running switch to system console (Alt-Ctrl-F10 on SuSE) and leave it there. It *might* show a kernel oops/panic there next crash. * search SuSE config for Magic SysRequest keys -- the function should be compiled in the kernel but has to be activated. Then you can press weird key-combinations like Alt-Ctrl-Sysreq-R for register dump, ...S for disk sync,... see /usr/src/linux/Documentation for details. * File server? What hardware? I had SCSI disks locking my system for various reasons (Tagged queuing incompatibilites of indiv. drives, too long cables,..) K.-H. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:04 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 971683EAB for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:45:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IHf5lp024522; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:41:05 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IHeKlp024500 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:40:20 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.44]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3A816C271; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:40:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4059DF08.5000504@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kh1dump@khherrmann.de, tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:40:24 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1407 Lines: 31 Karl, Thanks for the input, but I think you're giving me a lot more credit than I deserve. A lot of your suggestions went over my head. Learning to install and configure Linux is one thing. Learning how to do an autopsy seems to be quite another! | hunt down all info of the last crash (logfiles, register dump,...) Yes, well, I looked at the messages log, but saw only a gap time-wise between cron processing around 4 in the morning, and the time of the crash. I'm not sure which of the other logs are important in that case. Where do I find the register dump (although I suspect it won't make much sense to me, rather like those register dumps you get in Windows XP)? | File server? What hardware? Two regular IDE drives: one 20GB and one 250GB, so SCSI shouldn't be an issue. I'm going to keep your response handy -- several things to try. Meantime, I realized I was booting the thing into runlevel 5 (rather stupid, actually), so I've since changed it to 3. If it is, as someone suggested, a framebuffer problem, maybe that will solve it for now. I'm using a real old Voodoo 3 card I scrounged from my parts bin. If it happens again, I'll have to tear the machine apart and start playing with the memory, as someone else here suggested. Thanks. Tom _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:05 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 491503EE5 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IIM2lp010779; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:22:02 -0500 Received: from web41102.mail.yahoo.com (web41102.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.18]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2IIL2lp010768 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:21:03 -0500 Message-ID: <20040318182050.2935.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41102.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:20:50 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash To: tag@linuxgazette.net, kh1dump@khherrmann.de Cc: tfbrown@ceinetworks.com In-Reply-To: <4059DF08.5000504@ceinetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:20:50 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2918 Lines: 72 --- Tom Brown wrote: > install and configure Linux is one thing. Learning how to do an autopsy > seems to be quite another! That's because generally one doesn't do it quite like that. Problem diagnosis is situation dependant. In any givem situation there is often a small set of files and related information that you can analyse without having to worry about the rest of the system. Granted, this is related to how much information one is told at the time (if you've been on this list for as long as I have, you'll come to realise that usually we don't get any), and whether or not the person has tried to remedy it. In general though, poking around, taking an aspect of your system, looking at what it does, and how is all related and helful to you when you have to come to diagnose anything. > Yes, well, I looked at the messages log, but saw only a gap time-wise > between cron processing around 4 in the morning, and the time of the > crash. I'm not sure which of the other logs are important in that case. > Where do I find the register dump (although I suspect it won't make much > sense to me, rather like those register dumps you get in Windows XP)? Syslogd would have logged it, if the problem was software related, and indeed if the said program produced any errors. > I'm going to keep your response handy -- several things to try. > Meantime, I realized I was booting the thing into runlevel 5 (rather > stupid, actually), so I've since changed it to 3. If it is, as someone > suggested, a framebuffer problem, maybe that will solve it for now. I'm That was I who suggested a framebuffer problem. I'll re-iterate that: linux video=vga16:off is what you can try at the LILO/GRUB prompt. > using a real old Voodoo 3 card I scrounged from my parts bin. If it > happens again, I'll have to tear the machine apart and start playing > with the memory, as someone else here suggested. It *might* be memory, but as the link I have you last time around said, memory problems tend to be more 'visible' in the sense that you get a lot of applications SEGFAULTing and SEGABRTing for no apparant reason. In such instances, installing and running 'memtest86' is usually of help. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:27:35 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5781F3DC8 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IKW5lp002068; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:32:05 -0500 Received: from natsmtp00.webmailer.de (natsmtp00.rzone.de [81.169.145.165]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IKVrlp002057 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:31:53 -0500 Received: from khhlap.local.de (dialin-145-254-246-216.arcor-ip.net [145.254.246.216]) by post.webmailer.de (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id i2IKVm9p023343; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:31:50 +0100 (MET) Received: from khhlap.local.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by khhlap.local.de (8.11.3/8.11.3/SuSE Linux 8.11.1-0.5) with SMTP id i2IKH4c28911; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:17:04 +0100 From: Karl-Heinz Herrmann To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: Tom Brown Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash Message-Id: <20040318211704.5d3243ec.kh1dump@khherrmann.de> In-Reply-To: <20040318182050.2935.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4059DF08.5000504@ceinetworks.com> <20040318182050.2935.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.7 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: K.-H. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:17:04 +0100 Status: O Content-Length: 2741 Lines: 66 On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:20:50 +0000 (GMT) Thomas Adam wrote: > Syslogd would have logged it, if the problem was software related, and > indeed if the said program produced any errors. Not necessarily -- Most of the time I had the great luck of oopes and kernel crashes occuring in the scsi layer, often hardware problems. If the scsi layer is in trouble nothing will get written to disk. What's software related regarding the kernel? The kernel deals with hardware, and it's supposed to handle error conditions gracefully, i.e. not just freeze without a hints whats gone wrong. But there are situations where the kernel doesn't have a chance of leaving hints on harddrive. Then a few thing might be useful: (to Tom B) - run the box without X as you suggested yourself - switch to konsole 10 (sys messages). Even if the kernel might not be able to leave a trace on the HD it might give a hint here. - for any reg dump on konsole 10 or syslog you *need* to run it through ksymoops to make it useful. That's something nobody can take over because it has to be done on your system, with your kernel and kernel symbols. I hope SuSE set everything needed up correctly. As you mentioned WinXX reg dumps -- in Linux they are about as useful as in WinXX, but Linux has the tools to decode them (ksymoops) to make them useful. - If you gain any information (and yes you will have to note it down on paper and give it to ksymoops after reboot) you can try here oo with the kernel people. - this is an *option* to follow if you are interested *why* your system crashes. As it's crashing very irregular this is a rather difficult situation and a very slow process. But "the machine was dead on the next morning" wont help you next time it happens. Above mentioned things (along with running a printer or a serial line console) would also help in getting the syslog right up to the crash. suggested reading: /usr/src/linux/Documentation/oops-tracing.txt ksymoops man page But I have to say that often enough I also do not try to hunt spurious crashes which *do* occasionally happen. Either hardware causes or whatever. You always can try a different kernel or simply hope for the best. Still -- keeping the system on konsole 10 is not a difficult thing to do and it just might give you something useful next time (note it down for ksymoops if it's a oops or panic). SuSE has memtest as bootoption -- run it if you suspect the RAM, run it long (several passes) and the full test suite if you don't find any errors on the first go. K.-H. _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:27:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57CBF3D39 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:15:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IN93lp010598; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:09:03 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IN8Flp010592 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:15 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.44]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8F516C3A7; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405A2BE4.3000604@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Karl-Heinz Herrmann Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net, thomas_adam16@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [TAG] Diagnosing a Linux crash References: <4059DF08.5000504@ceinetworks.com> <20040318182050.2935.qmail@web41102.mail.yahoo.com> <20040318211704.5d3243ec.kh1dump@khherrmann.de> In-Reply-To: <20040318211704.5d3243ec.kh1dump@khherrmann.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:20 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 860 Lines: 21 Thanks Karl and Thomas. This is the starting point I needed. (For one thing, I didn't even know about konsole10: looks helpful). I just wish I had more from the crash than just a black screen, but that's what I get for running X on bootup for a file server. Between the two of you, I think I have the answers I was looking for when I started this thread: not what went wrong exactly, but how to dig in, and try to figure it out for myself. Oh, Thomas, when I rebooted to runlevel 3, I entered that video setting you suggested as well. I just know I'll be back with more questions, though. One way or another, I'll figure this Linux thing out. Thanks again, guys. Your help, as always, is much appreciated. Tom Brown _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Wed Mar 17 16:17:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:17:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 019B63ED0 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:17:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLD2lp019510; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:13:02 -0500 Received: from osiris.faultyvision.net (adsl-66-127-61-113.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [66.127.61.113]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2HLCSlq019494 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:12:33 -0500 Received: from best.com (horus.faultyvision.net [192.168.10.250]) by osiris.faultyvision.net (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id i2HLCOIV019849 for ; Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:12:25 -0800 Message-ID: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> From: Yan-Fa Li User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] 2c tip: measuring the temperature in your computer room during the day Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:12:23 -0800 Status: RO Content-Length: 982 Lines: 28 Hi, I've found a useful side effect of running smartd on my drives at home which I've used for a while now to monitor the temperature in my apartment. A lot of newer IDE drives, especially IBM/Hitachi's and SCSI hard disks monitor the drive temperature. I've found this to be a useful way to figure out how hot it is in my computer room at home :D Assuming you've already installed smartmontools, this was tested with version 5.26: # smartctl -a /dev/hda | grep 194 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 161 161 000 Old_age Always - 34 (Lifetime Min/Max 20/37) As you can see the drive is a toasty 34 degrees celsius. Of about 5-7 degrees above ambient, it's about 27-29C or 80-85F in that room right now. Not great for the equipment but survivable. Anyway, not terribly useful, but interesting nonetheless :D Yan _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:36 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDABB3F7E for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 03:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JAv2lp002595; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:57:02 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JAuIlp002590 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:56:20 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B4GOo-0004OF-02 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:04:42 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2J93QQY000937 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:33:26 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:33:21 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: tag@linuxgazette.net References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:33:21 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 720 Lines: 31 Hello, I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was not possible from the command line... ...until today---one lives and learns. dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" is the filtering program you want to apply. Examples: (a) Use rot13 as the filter and you get (rather minimal) encryption of the file contents. (b) Use tr '[A-Z]' '[a-z]' as the filter and you can downcase a file. Regards, Kapil. P.S. http://www.itworld.com/nl/unix_sys_adm/09252002/ has a perl solution. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:41 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D96CE3F45 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 05:09:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JD52lp026106; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:05:02 -0500 Received: from web41112.mail.yahoo.com (web41112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.28]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2JD45lp026087 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:04:05 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319130404.58079.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:04:04 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:04:04 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1108 Lines: 38 --- Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > Hello, Well, Hello :) > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > not possible from the command line... > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc Perl/sed/ruby all honour the '-i' flag, which is a started, then just apply regexps to match anything but the filter expression. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:45 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CEB33E87 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:44:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JFe3lp001915; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:40:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.92]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JFdElp001882 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:39:16 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B4M5u-0001mL-00 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:39:34 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:39:34 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1104 Lines: 36 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 02:33:21PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > Hello, > > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > not possible from the command line... > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc > > Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" > is the filtering program you want to apply. The "buffer" program does exactly the same as the above; the process is called "reblocking". buffer < foo | filter > foo If the file is bigger than 1MB, you'll need to specify a larger queue with the "-m" option, but that's usually not an issue. Conversely, as Thomas mentioned, you could use Perl's, etc. "in-place edit" switch: # rot13 perl -i -wpe'y/a-zA-Z/n-za-mN-ZA-M/' file # lc everything perl -i -wpe'$_=lc' file * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF9463F0C for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:54:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JIo3lp028981; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:50:04 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JIn0lp028963 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:49:05 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2JIiN317484 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:44:23 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 10:39:34AM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:44:22 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1347 Lines: 38 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 10:39:34AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 02:33:21PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > > not possible from the command line... > > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc > > > > Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" > > is the filtering program you want to apply. > > The "buffer" program does exactly the same as the above; the process is > called "reblocking". > > buffer < foo | filter > foo Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that defined? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7A53D7C for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JIw2lp029058; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:58:02 -0500 Received: from web41112.mail.yahoo.com (web41112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.28]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2JIvKlp029052 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:57:20 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:57:17 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:57:17 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1144 Lines: 45 --- "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) What do you mean, Jay? > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > defined? Well, yes.... 1. buffer < foo 2. | filer is acted upon 3. Resultant output to file -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:28:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A516C3D7C for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JJ33lp013624; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:03:03 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JJ2Wlp013617 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:02:32 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2JIvsE18165 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com>; from Thomas Adam on Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 06:57:17PM +0000 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:57:54 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1475 Lines: 46 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 06:57:17PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) > > What do you mean, Jay? Cause of what happens if the thing is interrupted in the middle, among other thiings. > > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > > defined? > > Well, yes.... > > 1. buffer < foo > 2. | filer is acted upon > 3. Resultant output to file Well, not necessarily. A shell could (un)reasonably decide to evaluate the output redirection (ie: stomp on the file) before the buffer program can read it. At best, it might be a race condition between the two sides of the pipe. I don't think, intuitively, that it's at all reliable, where as I think the dd approach probably is. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:29:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42A433F64 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:23:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2JJH2lp030696; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:17:02 -0500 Received: from web41115.mail.yahoo.com (web41115.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.31]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2JJG1lp024111 for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:16:02 -0500 Message-ID: <20040319191600.41436.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:16:00 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:16:00 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 1167 Lines: 37 --- "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > A shell could (un)reasonably decide to evaluate the output redirection > (ie: stomp on the file) before the buffer program can read it. At > best, it might be a race condition between the two sides of the pipe. Maybe, but that would depend on a number of factors. > I don't think, intuitively, that it's at all reliable, where as I think > the dd approach probably is. Use degenerative test cases... give it a whirl :) -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:25 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F14373FB0 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:27:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M3M3lp027379; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:22:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.82]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M3L7lp027373 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:21:09 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5G0F-0004BY-00 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:21:27 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:21:27 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1969 Lines: 54 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:57:54PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 06:57:17PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > --- "Jay R. Ashworth" wrote: > > > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > > > > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) > > > > What do you mean, Jay? > > Cause of what happens if the thing is interrupted in the middle, among > other thiings. Much like what happens with Kapil's solution if it's interrupted during the first pipe, with additional complications if it's interrupted during the second. > > > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > > > defined? > > > > Well, yes.... > > > > 1. buffer < foo > > 2. | filer is acted upon > > 3. Resultant output to file > > Well, not necessarily. > > A shell could (un)reasonably decide to evaluate the output redirection > (ie: stomp on the file) before the buffer program can read it. At > best, it might be a race condition between the two sides of the pipe. Uh, not any shell that contains a _working_ implementation of IPC. One that's broken, certainly. Chances are that if time ran backwards, it probably wouldn't work too well either... > I don't think, intuitively, that it's at all reliable, where as I think > the dd approach probably is. Please state the mean and the average probabilities and the relevant confidence levels for the accuracy of your intuitive approach. The data generated in the course of your study may or may not be used as grounds for questioning during your exam. :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B091E3FB6 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:25:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFK4lp003561; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:20:04 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFJilp003538 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:19:44 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MFEW823163 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:14:32 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322101432.B21395@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 10:21:27PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:14:32 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2422 Lines: 60 On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 10:21:27PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > Cause of what happens if the thing is interrupted in the middle, among > > other thiings. > > Much like what happens with Kapil's solution if it's interrupted during > the first pipe, with additional complications if it's interrupted during > the second. Actually, if Kapil's solution is interrupted in the middle, you have a half processed input file. At least you still *have* some file. > > > > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > > > > defined? > > > > > > Well, yes.... > > > > > > 1. buffer < foo > > > 2. | filer is acted upon > > > 3. Resultant output to file > > > > Well, not necessarily. > > > > A shell could (un)reasonably decide to evaluate the output redirection > > (ie: stomp on the file) before the buffer program can read it. At > > best, it might be a race condition between the two sides of the pipe. > > Uh, not any shell that contains a _working_ implementation of IPC. One > that's broken, certainly. Chances are that if time ran backwards, it > probably wouldn't work too well either... Every shell programing I've read in 20 years warns againts that construct, precisely because most shells *will* set up the redirect first and stomp the output file. As for the pipeline, I believe that most shells exec the last component first. Maybe bash has changed that; I remember a warning about it in the Bourne book. > > I don't think, intuitively, that it's at all reliable, where as I think > > the dd approach probably is. > > Please state the mean and the average probabilities and the relevant > confidence levels for the accuracy of your intuitive approach. The data > generated in the course of your study may or may not be used as grounds > for questioning during your exam. :) Ok, I've taked the rifle out of the box under my chair and assembled it. Where's the ammo? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:08 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E043DD6 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MNO2lp030982; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:24:03 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MNN4lp030975 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:23:04 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MNHlj15289 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:17:47 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tips: troubleshooting memory Message-ID: <20040322181747.D12566@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <405F17B1.4020004@ceinetworks.com> <20040322164944.43676.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322164944.43676.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com>; from Thomas Adam on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 04:49:44PM +0000 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:17:47 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1161 Lines: 27 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 04:49:44PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Tom Brown wrote: > > > system recently), run a utility such as "memtest-86". It's free, and > > available from www.memtest86.com. It also comes with SuSE Linux, and > > This has been documented *countless* times over the years (c.f. the thread > I gave you last time around about diagnosing bug reports). The thing to > remember here is that memtest86 is not a utility, but rather a bootloader. Well, IMNSHO, no, it's not. A boot-time loadable standalone utility, perhaps, but inasmuch as it does not itself boot *other* programs, it's not a bootloader. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38AF3FB8 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M3F6lp010888; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:15:06 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.82]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M3E9lp010433 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:14:11 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5FtT-0004B4-00 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:14:27 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:14:27 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2011 Lines: 49 On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 10:39:34AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 02:33:21PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > > > not possible from the command line... > > > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > > > > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc > > > > > > Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" > > > is the filtering program you want to apply. > > > > The "buffer" program does exactly the same as the above; the process is > > called "reblocking". > > > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) Hell, Jay, by that standard of nitpickiness, nothing ever is. I mean, all those microseconds have passed, many electrons have travelled some distance in their orbit, we've moved along the direction indicated by the entropy arrow... The meaning of "exactly" for us humans always means "close enough". > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > defined? Well, *yeah* - just about as definitively as anything in Bash is. Otherwise Kapil's method wouldn't work either. Neither would piping anything through "sort". The left side of the pipe has to terminate before the right side can do anything with the output; in many cases, there _is_ no output until just before the left side terminates. Any conversation that includes "yeah, but csh..." is, in the parlance of an acquaintance, "right off the bugfuck side of the spectrum." * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:31 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 312E33F4F for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M616lp014718; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:01:06 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M60Rlp007361 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 01:00:28 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B5IUi-0007sp-04 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:31:04 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2M5pva2003783 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:21:58 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:21:52 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:21:52 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1949 Lines: 51 Hi, Just a few additional remarks: (a) perl, python and vi/ex do offer alternate solutions ... but see below. (b) I couldn't locate "buffer"---where do I find it? (c) Just to defend the "dd" solution a bit: When the "dd" command-line given in the earlier mail is terminated (for any reason like a Control-C), it outputs the number of blocks read/written. Thus, the intrepid user can restart the process by modifying it with suitable "seek" and "skip" commands. Of course, this assumes that the filter operates on data sizes less than 4k independently. I became aware of this "dd" procedure while trying to (yes I'm crazy) encrypt one entire disk partition in-place. The problem with the other solutions is that they require a lot of memory to run. As far reading and writing to pipes is concerned, here is how I understand it---please correct me if I am wrong. The kernel has its own *internal* settings on how much data is buffered before a writing process is put at the back of the queue and the reading process is woken up. Thus killing any one process in the "dd" pipeline could only result in *less* data being written than was read---an error from which one can recover as described above. Regards, Kapil. P.S. The solutions above are not my own. You too can (if you run Debian) install/check out "cryptofs" the package created by Max Voezler. This uses the "aespipe" filter (also by the same author) which encrypts stdin using AES and dumps the encrypted data to stdout. P.P.S. For the curious. Yes, indeed! I did manage to encrypt my "/home" partition and perhaps more importantly *use* it in the cryptofs mode. There is already a lot of documentation at LDP on this. -- ..you could spend *all day* customizing the title bar. Believe me. I speak from experience. -- Matt Welsh -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:42 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB1C3FAF for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2M8k6lp008256; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:46:06 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2M8jElp000326 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 03:45:15 -0500 Message-ID: <20040322084514.34245.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:45:14 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:45:14 +0000 (GMT) Status: O Content-Length: 2319 Lines: 70 --- Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > Hi, Hello, Kapil. > Just a few additional remarks: > > (a) perl, python and vi/ex do offer alternate solutions ... but see > below. > > (b) I couldn't locate "buffer"---where do I find it? Oddly enough, under Debian it is in the 'buffer' package. > (c) Just to defend the "dd" solution a bit: > > When the "dd" command-line given in the earlier mail is terminated > (for any reason like a Control-C), it outputs the number of blocks ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That would be a cool idea to do! > read/written. Thus, the intrepid user can restart the process by > modifying it with suitable "seek" and "skip" commands. Of course, this See the "-S", "-s", and "-z" to buffer(1) :) > assumes that the filter operates on data sizes less than 4k > independently. > > I became aware of this "dd" procedure while trying to (yes I'm crazy) > encrypt one entire disk partition in-place. The problem with the other > solutions is that they require a lot of memory to run. Yeah, but then one would use a proper filesystem that encrypted data for you. > As far reading and writing to pipes is concerned, here is how I > understand it---please correct me if I am wrong. The kernel has its > own *internal* settings on how much data is buffered before a writing > process is put at the back of the queue and the reading process is woken > up. Thus killing any one process in the "dd" pipeline could only result > in *less* data being written than was read---an error from which one can > recover as described above. That supports what I have read. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:31:51 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:31:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7379E3F61 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 02:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MAZ4lp004445; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:35:04 -0500 Received: from mail2.imsc.res.in (mail2.imsc.res.in [203.199.209.87]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MAYolp004426 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 05:34:50 -0500 Received: from banyan.imsc.ernet.in ([202.41.95.76]) by mail2.imsc.res.in with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1B5MmM-0002Gc-00 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:05:34 +0530 Received: from as82.imsc.res.in (as82.imsc.ernet.in [172.16.2.107]) by banyan.imsc.ernet.in (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-6.6) with SMTP id i2MAYla2019178 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:47 +0530 Received: by as82.imsc.res.in (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:42 +0530 From: "Kapil Hari Paranjape" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322103442.GG15218@imsc.res.in> Mail-Followup-To: tag@linuxgazette.net References: <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> <20040322084514.34245.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322084514.34245.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:04:42 +0530 Status: O Content-Length: 1099 Lines: 36 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 08:45:14AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > (b) I couldn't locate "buffer"---where do I find it? > > Oddly enough, under Debian it is in the 'buffer' package. Ah! Thanks! Why is it that the last place one looks is under one's nose?! > > I became aware of this "dd" procedure while trying to (yes I'm crazy) > > encrypt one entire disk partition in-place. The problem with the other > > solutions is that they require a lot of memory to run. > > Yeah, but then one would use a proper filesystem that encrypted data for > you. It is not clear whether encryption belongs with the filesystem or with the underlying block device. I was looking at "loop-aes" and "cryptoloop" that work with the block device. Regards, Kapil. -- The Universe is populated by stable things. -- Richard Dawkins The Virtual Universe (on the other hand) is populated by buggy things. -- my response. -- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32B973FC2 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MG62lp022399; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:06:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.91]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MG5Olp022374 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:05:29 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5Rvp-00050v-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:05:41 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322160541.GB19015@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:05:41 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1171 Lines: 24 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:21:52AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > As far reading and writing to pipes is concerned, here is how I > understand it---please correct me if I am wrong. The kernel has its > own *internal* settings on how much data is buffered before a writing > process is put at the back of the queue and the reading process is woken > up. Thus killing any one process in the "dd" pipeline could only result > in *less* data being written than was read---an error from which one can > recover as described above. Since the source and the target file are the same, wouldn't you end up with some truncated version of your data (i.e., the source being gone no matter what)? It seems to me that the difference between complete destruction of data and truncation of it at some random point can only matter theoretically, except in a vanishingly small number of situations. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:16 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924373FBD for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:18:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGD1lp022487; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:13:01 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGCvlp022482 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:12:57 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MG7i625606 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:07:44 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322110744.E21395@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040319185718.59164.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> <20040322160541.GB19015@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322160541.GB19015@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:05:41AM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:07:44 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1805 Lines: 39 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:05:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:21:52AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > As far reading and writing to pipes is concerned, here is how I > > understand it---please correct me if I am wrong. The kernel has its > > own *internal* settings on how much data is buffered before a writing > > process is put at the back of the queue and the reading process is woken > > up. Thus killing any one process in the "dd" pipeline could only result > > in *less* data being written than was read---an error from which one can > > recover as described above. > > Since the source and the target file are the same, wouldn't you end up > with some truncated version of your data (i.e., the source being gone no > matter what)? It seems to me that the difference between complete > destruction of data and truncation of it at some random point can only > matter theoretically, except in a vanishingly small number of > situations. No, you wouldn't. The target side dd is doing *random access*. It writes the blocks sequentially, but it writes them *into* the standing file, one at a time, without touching the blocks around them. Likewise on the read side. The killer is the *redirection*, which his approach does not use, at all. Not the pipe. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:20 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15483F00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:46:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGf2lp024105; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:41:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.93]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGe1lp024089 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:40:03 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5STL-000554-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:40:19 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: The Answer Gang Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322164019.GE19015@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040319135754.D13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> <20040322160541.GB19015@callahans.org> <20040322110744.E21395@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322110744.E21395@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:40:19 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1872 Lines: 38 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:07:44AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:05:41AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:21:52AM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > As far reading and writing to pipes is concerned, here is how I > > > understand it---please correct me if I am wrong. The kernel has its > > > own *internal* settings on how much data is buffered before a writing > > > process is put at the back of the queue and the reading process is woken > > > up. Thus killing any one process in the "dd" pipeline could only result > > > in *less* data being written than was read---an error from which one can > > > recover as described above. > > > > Since the source and the target file are the same, wouldn't you end up > > with some truncated version of your data (i.e., the source being gone no > > matter what)? It seems to me that the difference between complete > > destruction of data and truncation of it at some random point can only > > matter theoretically, except in a vanishingly small number of > > situations. > > No, you wouldn't. > > The target side dd is doing *random access*. > > It writes the blocks sequentially, but it writes them *into* the > standing file, one at a time, without touching the blocks around them. > Likewise on the read side. The killer is the *redirection*, which his > approach does not use, at all. Not the pipe. AH. I hadn't realized that. In that case, I agree; there's a large difference. I've just tried it on a 100MB file I've made up for the purpose, and it seems that you're right. * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:26 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C533FBD for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:43:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MHc3lp027792; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:38:03 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MHbLlp027787 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:37:22 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MHW8128624 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:32:08 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322123207.A28294@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <20040322032127.GD15890@callahans.org> <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322055152.GA15218@imsc.res.in> <20040322160541.GB19015@callahans.org> <20040322110744.E21395@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322164019.GE19015@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322164019.GE19015@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:40:19AM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:32:07 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 1172 Lines: 28 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 11:40:19AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > The target side dd is doing *random access*. > > > > It writes the blocks sequentially, but it writes them *into* the > > standing file, one at a time, without touching the blocks around them. > > Likewise on the read side. The killer is the *redirection*, which his > > approach does not use, at all. Not the pipe. > > AH. I hadn't realized that. In that case, I agree; there's a large > difference. I've just tried it on a 100MB file I've made up for the > purpose, and it seems that you're right. I thought it was an incredibly clever approach that I should have though of 20 years ago. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:09 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 728683FB6 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFG5lp030997; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:16:05 -0500 Received: from cgi.jachomes.com ([216.85.69.3]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFFilp027118 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:15:44 -0500 Received: (from jra@localhost) by cgi.jachomes.com (8.11.6/8.11.2) id i2MFAV122930 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:10:31 -0500 From: "Jay R. Ashworth" To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322101031.A21395@cgi.jachomes.com> References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org>; from Ben Okopnik on Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 10:14:27PM -0500 Organization: Ashworth & Associates, St Pete FL USA Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:10:31 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2771 Lines: 64 On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 10:14:27PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 10:39:34AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 02:33:21PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > > > > not possible from the command line... > > > > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > > > > > > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc > > > > > > > > Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" > > > > is the filtering program you want to apply. > > > > > > The "buffer" program does exactly the same as the above; the process is > > > called "reblocking". > > > > > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) > > Hell, Jay, by that standard of nitpickiness, nothing ever is. I mean, > all those microseconds have passed, many electrons have travelled some > distance in their orbit, we've moved along the direction indicated by > the entropy arrow... > > The meaning of "exactly" for us humans always means "close enough". Well, in this case, my point was that I question whether it's "close enough", particularly to end up in a tip... > > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > > defined? > > Well, *yeah* - just about as definitively as anything in Bash is. > Otherwise Kapil's method wouldn't work either. Neither would piping > anything through "sort". The left side of the pipe has to terminate > before the right side can do anything with the output; in many cases, > there _is_ no output until just before the left side terminates. In fact I think that's wrong: I don't think the dd method *does* depend on order of eval; the writing copy of dd can't try to write a block until it *has* it, so I believe that that method is *guaranteed* never to stomp data. > Any conversation that includes "yeah, but csh..." is, in the parlance of > an acquaintance, "right off the bugfuck side of the spectrum." Three sigma West of ridiculous, yes. Did *I* mention csh? :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth jra@baylink.com Member of the Technical Staff Baylink RFC 2100 The Suncoast Freenet The Things I Think Tampa Bay, Florida http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 "They had engineers in my day, too." -- Perry Vance Nelson _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:13 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4537B3FB7 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:04:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFx2lp005232; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:59:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.91]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MFwtlp005226 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:58:57 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5RpY-00050F-00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:59:12 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040322155912.GA19015@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322101031.A21395@cgi.jachomes.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322101031.A21395@cgi.jachomes.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:59:12 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 2619 Lines: 60 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 10:10:31AM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Sun, Mar 21, 2004 at 10:14:27PM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > > > > > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) > > > > Hell, Jay, by that standard of nitpickiness, nothing ever is. I mean, > > all those microseconds have passed, many electrons have travelled some > > distance in their orbit, we've moved along the direction indicated by > > the entropy arrow... > > > > The meaning of "exactly" for us humans always means "close enough". > > Well, in this case, my point was that I question whether it's "close > enough", particularly to end up in a tip... A number of folks I know, including myself (on the very rare occasion that I need it) use the "buffer" method. [shrug] Seems to work fine in practice. > > > Doesn't that still depend on order of evaluation by the shell? Is that > > > defined? > > > > Well, *yeah* - just about as definitively as anything in Bash is. > > Otherwise Kapil's method wouldn't work either. Neither would piping > > anything through "sort". The left side of the pipe has to terminate > > before the right side can do anything with the output; in many cases, > > there _is_ no output until just before the left side terminates. > > In fact I think that's wrong: I don't think the dd method *does* depend > on order of eval; the writing copy of dd can't try to write a block > until it *has* it, so I believe that that method is *guaranteed* never > to stomp data. So interrupting the "reader" side of "dd" won't stomp anything, but the writing side will - OK. I don't see a real difference (although I see a theoretical one), particularly since I don't make a practice of pounding "Ctrl-C" immediately after launching a buffered process. > > Any conversation that includes "yeah, but csh..." is, in the parlance of > > an acquaintance, "right off the bugfuck side of the spectrum." > > Three sigma West of ridiculous, yes. Did *I* mention csh? :-) Nope. Just doing preventive maintenance. :) > RFC 2100 Oh GHODS. Jay, you're an incarnation of Evil in the disguise of a harmless geek. _And_ your scansion limps. :))) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:33:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190DD3FD1 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 22:41:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2N6a4lp006009; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:36:04 -0500 Received: from jive.SoftHome.net (jive.SoftHome.net [66.54.152.27]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2N6ZMlp001814 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:35:22 -0500 Received: (qmail 25159 invoked by uid 417); 23 Mar 2004 06:35:22 -0000 Received: from shunt-smtp-out-0 (HELO softhome.net) (172.16.3.12) by shunt-smtp-out-0 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2004 06:35:22 -0000 Received: from jpc.example.com ([206.231.184.19]) (AUTH: PLAIN androflux@softhome.net) by softhome.net with esmtp; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 23:35:20 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=jpc.example.com) by jpc.example.com with smtp (Exim 4.20) id 1B5avZ-0006Oy-RP for tag@linuxgazette.net; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:42:01 -0700 From: Jason Creighton To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-Id: <20040322184201.21be2f08.androflux@softhome.net> In-Reply-To: <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.9.10 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) X-gazette-tag: Jason X-Linux-Knowledge: Just enough to be dangerous Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 18:42:01 -0700 Status: O Content-Length: 2450 Lines: 57 On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:14:27 -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 01:44:22PM -0500, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 10:39:34AM -0500, Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > On Fri, Mar 19, 2004 at 02:33:21PM +0530, Kapil Hari Paranjape wrote: > > > > I have always thought that filtering files "in-place" was > > > > not possible from the command line... > > > > ...until today---one lives and learns. > > > > > > > > dd if=file bs=4k | filter | dd of=file bs=4k conv=notrunc > > > > > > > > Where "file" is the file you want to filter and "filter" > > > > is the filtering program you want to apply. > > > > > > The "buffer" program does exactly the same as the above; the process is > > > called "reblocking". > > > > > > buffer < foo | filter > foo > > > > > > > > Oh, cause buffer reads the entire file before the '>' can stomp it? > > > > Well, that's not *exactly* the same... :-) > > Hell, Jay, by that standard of nitpickiness, nothing ever is. I mean, > all those microseconds have passed, many electrons have travelled some > distance in their orbit, we've moved along the direction indicated by > the entropy arrow... > > The meaning of "exactly" for us humans always means "close enough". How close is close enough? Is 3 "close enough" to PI? 3.1? 3.14? 3.14159265358979? The answer is, of course, "it depends". If you're like me (by which I mean: bad at mental math) and trying to figure out the area of a circle in your head, you will find it much easier to grab a handy approximation.[1] So the question here is, "for *this* problem, does it matter if the entire file is read by buffer?". There are some cases (most notably, very large files.) where you would not want to read the whole file. There are other cases where it simply doesn't matter. [1] OTOH, if you are working for MicroSoft, 1.234 will do nicely. The numbers are in ascending order, which looks much nicer and does not unnecessarily confuse users like "3.14159265358979" does. Why, after all, should we have to understand irrational numbers to use a computer? That may have been the case under the evil CLI with DOS, but not in the modern, happy, user-friendly world that today's MicroSoft products make possible! Jason Creighton _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:35:14 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF444081 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKK4lp005164; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:20:04 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.81]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2NKJPlp005143 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:19:29 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B5sNB-0006oE-00 for ; Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:19:41 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tip: filtering in-place Message-ID: <20040323201940.GA25895@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <4058BF37.7030005@best.com> <20040319090321.GA2928@imsc.res.in> <20040319153934.GB3353@callahans.org> <20040319134422.C13568@cgi.jachomes.com> <20040322031427.GC15890@callahans.org> <20040322184201.21be2f08.androflux@softhome.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040322184201.21be2f08.androflux@softhome.net> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:19:41 -0500 Status: O Content-Length: 881 Lines: 19 On Mon, Mar 22, 2004 at 06:42:01PM -0700, Jason Creighton wrote: > > [1] OTOH, if you are working for MicroSoft, 1.234 will do nicely. The > numbers are in ascending order, which looks much nicer and does not > unnecessarily confuse users like "3.14159265358979" does. Why, after > all, should we have to understand irrational numbers to use a computer? We don't have to be irrational at all - Micr0s0ft can do it for us, *and* do it professionally! I mean, why take chances on doing it yourself, when for only $399.95 plus yearly renewals, you too can... 321o4ui329eupeojd^H^hjijq^+++ LOST CARRIER * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:00 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB623E5E for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:15:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IGB2lp019444; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:11:02 -0500 Received: from hyrcentralen.se ([213.131.152.117]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IGAHlp019425 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:10:18 -0500 Received: from [213.131.152.113] (HELO [192.168.3.36]) by hyrcentralen.se (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.6) with ESMTP id 41817 for tag@linuxgazette.net; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:10:16 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v613) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed To: tag@linuxgazette.net From: Love Sundin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.613) Subject: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:10:08 +0100 Status: RO Content-Length: 703 Lines: 40 Hi folks at ,The Answer Gang I have two webservers running linux (redhat) one of them is the primary server and the other one acts as backup the thing is that i want to be able to mirror these servers in both ways including this: * mysql databases *http folder *httpdconfig i was thinking a shell script would do the trick! but my competence ends just after #!/bin/bash! i am not asking for a complete script just some were to turn for help :) Mvh Love Sundin, MacRent Hyrcentralen Tfn: 08-673 01 00 Mob: 073-960 02 02 Fax: 08-673 01 15 Love@macrent.se _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:02 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE2D3ED9 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:07:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IH16lp017353; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:01:06 -0500 Received: from web40913.mail.yahoo.com (web40913.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.78.210]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2IH0Alp006521 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:00:10 -0500 Message-ID: <20040318165935.88851.qmail@web40913.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.80.129.254] by web40913.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:59:35 PST From: Bradley Chapman Subject: Re: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers To: love@macrent.se Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:59:35 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Content-Length: 1640 Lines: 55 Mr. Sundin, --- Love Sundin wrote: > Hi folks at ,The Answer Gang > > I have two webservers running linux (redhat) > one of them is the primary server and the other one acts as backup > > the thing is that i want to be able to mirror these servers in both ways > > including this: > > * mysql databases > *http folder > *httpdconfig Well, since you're using a MySQL database, have you considered moving the MySQL database and DBMS onto a third machine which is more powerful than the two webservers, and simply having the webservers query the database using your favorite RDBMS protocol. Or you could use the MySQL mirroring and load balancing features (Google turns up a lot of links). Many online websites, such as discussion forums, often place the DB onto a separate machine and the Web server software onto another one (or two, or any value of N), and use DNS round robin to rotate amongst the Web servers, thus lessening the risk that a single machine failure will kill the site. > > i was thinking a shell script would do the trick! > but my competence ends just after #!/bin/bash! > > i am not asking for a complete script > > just some were to turn for help :) You can help us by supplying ASCII art defining your network topology - the really smart people who know DBs and stuff on this list will probably need it ;-) > > Mvh Brad ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Thu Mar 18 10:23:03 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE653DD7 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:16:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2IHC1lp022940; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:12:02 -0500 Received: from web41113.mail.yahoo.com (web41113.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.29]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2IHB4lp022927 for ; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:11:04 -0500 Message-ID: <20040318170836.13099.qmail@web41113.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41113.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:08:36 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: love@macrent.se In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:08:36 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1228 Lines: 47 --- Love Sundin wrote: > Hi folks at ,The Answer Gang Hello. > I have two webservers running linux (redhat) > one of them is the primary server and the other one acts as backup > > the thing is that i want to be able to mirror these servers in both ways > > including this: > > * mysql databases > *http folder > *httpdconfig > > i was thinking a shell script would do the trick! > but my competence ends just after #!/bin/bash! Have a look at the 'rsync' utility -- that will fit your needs quite happily. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:21 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5638C3F00 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:49:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGi2lp024177; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:44:02 -0500 Received: from smtp1.dejazzd.com (smtp1.dejazzd.com [66.109.229.7]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MGhLlp024162 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:43:22 -0500 Received: from ceinetworks.com (unknown [66.216.149.90]) by smtp1.dejazzd.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B3E616C31D for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:43:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <405F17B1.4020004@ceinetworks.com> From: Tom Brown User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Windows/20040207) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [TAG] 2c tips: troubleshooting memory Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:43:29 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1811 Lines: 31 After troubleshooting a Linux file server for the last few days, I have a two-cent tip on memory. As a side note, once I fixed my memory problem, I discovered I also had a framebuffer issue. Conclusion: if your problems appear to be the result of one of two causes, it may actually be the result of both. * * * If you suspect memory problems (particularly if you added memory to your system recently), run a utility such as "memtest-86". It's free, and available from www.memtest86.com. It also comes with SuSE Linux, and may accompany other Linux distros as well. The trick here is to run all the tests, of which memtest has several. Only one of the tests failed on me. The rest were fine. You may also want to run the tests repeatedly (i.e., overnight), in case the chips have a heat problem. If you have more than one SIMM (the little strip the memory is on), test one SIMM at a time, so you can tell for sure which one is bad. Now, if one or more SIMMs fail, don't throw anything away just yet. If you have another computer that uses the same type of memory, test the SIMMs there, as well. As I discovered in my own testing, memory that fails to run in one computer, may do just fine in another. The reason is that one motherboard may be more tolerant of marginal memory chips than another. If you've just upgraded your motherboard, or recently flashed the BIOS, double-check the BIOS, to make sure that its settings for memory timing are correct for the chips you're using, and aren't too fast. Tom Brown _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:32:29 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:32:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F3853E04 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2MHs2lp012421; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:54:02 -0500 Received: from web41109.mail.yahoo.com (web41109.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.25]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2MHrllp012406 for ; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:53:49 -0500 Message-ID: <20040322164944.43676.qmail@web41109.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41109.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:49:44 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] 2c tips: troubleshooting memory To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: tfbrown@ceinetworks.com In-Reply-To: <405F17B1.4020004@ceinetworks.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:49:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1109 Lines: 33 --- Tom Brown wrote: > system recently), run a utility such as "memtest-86". It's free, and > available from www.memtest86.com. It also comes with SuSE Linux, and This has been documented *countless* times over the years (c.f. the thread I gave you last time around about diagnosing bug reports). The thing to remember here is that memtest86 is not a utility, but rather a bootloader. -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:37:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:37:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03CEA3DC8 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OGL3lp009940; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:21:03 -0500 Received: from jkInsp8100.meyer.edu.co (adsl_estandar_3er_pool7538-242.007mundo.com [200.75.38.242] (may be forged)) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OGKClp009929 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:20:12 -0500 Received: by jkInsp8100.meyer.edu.co (Postfix, from userid 500) id 727DE296CD; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:11:39 -0500 (COT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jkInsp8100.meyer.edu.co (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A2824EA6; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:11:39 -0500 (COT) From: John Karns X-X-Sender: jkarns@jkInsp8100.meyer.edu.co To: Love Sundin Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:11:39 -0500 (COT) Status: RO Content-Length: 2884 Lines: 88 Hmm, re-sending, as it didn't get through the first time. Seems that my ISP here has changed their mail server cfg yet again, and is not allowing relay as before. Probably would help if they would quit using redmond OS's on their servers and switch to something a little more reliable. -- John Karns ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:28:41 -0500 (COT) From: John Karns To: Love Sundin Cc: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Love Sundin so eloquently said: > Hi folks at ,The Answer Gang > > I have two webservers running linux (redhat) > one of them is the primary server and the other one acts as backup > > the thing is that i want to be able to mirror these servers in both ways > > including this: > > * mysql databases > *http folder > *httpdconfig > > i was thinking a shell script would do the trick! > but my competence ends just after #!/bin/bash! > > i am not asking for a complete script > > just some were to turn for help :) Just thought I'd mention a few general suggestions. To read up on bash scripting, you might want to take a look at the "advanced bash scripting guide" at one of the following URL's: =============================================================== Linux Documentation Project: http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/ http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/abs-guide.html.tar.gz http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/abs-guide.pdf Sunsite: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/linux-doc-project/abs-guide/ Postscript -- http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/linux-doc-project/abs-guide/abs-guide.ps.gz Text -- http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/linux-doc-project/abs-guide/abs-guide.txt.gz Sunsite: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/linux-doc-project/abs-guide/ Author's home page: http://personal.riverusers.com/~thegrendel/abs-guide-2.6.tar.bz2 [ 624k ] (bzip2-ed tarball containing SGML source, all example scripts, and rendered HTML) =============================================================== "man bash" at the command prompt will yield the extensive bash man page, assuming that you have it available on your system. Also, there are some articles on the subject in the archives of the Linux Gazette, some of which were authored by Ben Okopnik, one of the members of the answer gang. The rsync utility is often used for mirroring and can save bandwidth. For the MySQL side of it, you may need to get a bit more creative. I would suggest fishing around on the 'net for DB mirroring with MySQL, as I think rsync is intended more as a tool to deal with plain ASCII files, although I could be off on that. -- John Karns _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:37:30 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:37:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAB8240AA for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OGt2lp011678; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:55:02 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.84]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OGsElp011663 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:54:16 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B6Bdn-0000m9-00; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:54:07 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: John Karns Cc: Love Sundin , tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] Mirror 2 web servers (fwd) Message-ID: <20040324165407.GA2840@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang , John Karns , Love Sundin References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:54:07 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1605 Lines: 34 On Wed, Mar 24, 2004 at 11:11:39AM -0500, John Karns wrote: > > "man bash" at the command prompt will yield the extensive bash man page, > assuming that you have it available on your system. > > Also, there are some articles on the subject in the archives of the Linux > Gazette, some of which were authored by Ben Okopnik, one of the members of > the answer gang. Yep. Just search for "shell scripting" (including the double-quotes) at and you'll see it right at the top of the stack. > The rsync utility is often used for mirroring and can save bandwidth. For > the MySQL side of it, you may need to get a bit more creative. I would > suggest fishing around on the 'net for DB mirroring with MySQL, as I > think rsync is intended more as a tool to deal with plain ASCII files, > although I could be off on that. [grin] Just a little, John. "rsync" is intended for file transfer in general, no restriction as to type. I use it with the "-e ssh" option (actually, I have "RSYNC_RSH=/usr/bin/ssh" set in my "~/.bash_profile"), so it uses SSH as the underlying mechanism, but "rsh", although deprecated in most situations, is also type-independent (although it's somewhat clunky - the STDIN/STDOUT method of transferring data does make it _look_ like a text-specific gadget.) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:37:56 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 297F63DCE for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:03:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OKw2lp025462; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:58:02 -0500 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OKvvlp025457 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:57:58 -0500 Received: from t14497867@netscape.net by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 1.3.c6df417 (16240) for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:57:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from netscape.net (host217-42-138-75.range217-42.btcentralplus.com [217.42.138.75]) by air-in03.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILININ34-3f704061f645107; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:57:42 -0500 Message-ID: <4061F668.2030307@netscape.net> From: spb User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax; CDonDemand-Dom) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010403050701050604040900" X-AOL-IP: 217.42.138.75 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Subject: [TAG] installing mandrake 10.0 Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:58:16 +0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 1009 Lines: 32 --------------010403050701050604040900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings I installedd disks 1 and 2 linux mandrake 10.0 as an upgrade to my linux mandrake 9.2, immediately all froze onsgreen . Need an answer- my 9.2 works ok. thanks. --------------010403050701050604040900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings I installedd disks 1 and 2 linux mandrake 10.0 as an upgrade to my linux mandrake 9.2, immediately all froze onsgreen . Need an answer- my 9.2 works ok. thanks.
 --------------010403050701050604040900-- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:37:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:37:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E77F83E44 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2OLB3lp010210; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:11:03 -0500 Received: from web41110.mail.yahoo.com (web41110.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.26]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2OLAilp010203 for ; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:10:45 -0500 Message-ID: <20040324211044.59006.qmail@web41110.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41110.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:10:44 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] installing mandrake 10.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: t14497867@netscape.net In-Reply-To: <4061F668.2030307@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:10:44 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1515 Lines: 44 --- spb wrote: > Greetings I installedd disks 1 and 2 linux mandrake 10.0 as an upgrade > to my linux mandrake 9.2, immediately all froze onsgreen . Need an > answer- my 9.2 works ok. thanks. Hi, unfortunately I often have trouble decyphering *all* that information that you poured into such a well thought out e-mail. You obviously spent a lot of time thinking about your problem, listing all the symptoms, etc. You should give yourself credit for it. Here's a tip though: http://linuxgazette.net/tag/ask-the-gang.html Oh, if you send HTML e-mail to this list again, there's a high chance you'll get ignored. Seriously we need more information about *what* id freezing, whether or not you completed your upgrade, whether or not your kernel boots....etc.... Otherwise, how can we help you? -- Thomas Adam ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:40:15 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE683E4C for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:14:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PM93lp001383; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:09:03 -0500 Received: from web41106.mail.yahoo.com (web41106.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.22]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2PM8elp001368 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:08:40 -0500 Message-ID: <20040325220839.40430.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41106.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:08:39 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= To: tag@linuxgazette.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [TAG] High Load on Computer.... Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:08:39 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 3191 Lines: 82 Hello All, You'll have to forgive the distinct lack of information that comes with this problem, but truth be told -- I don't have any to give you. Within the last four weeks or so, I replaced my old; yet faithful P166 motherboard with an older (yet newer in comparison) SiS, AMD-K6 motherboard which has the ability to do upto 350MHz, although it doesn't like that, and so I run it at 333MHz. I also have 512MB RAM [1] I know you'll laugh, but I was so very impressed with the speed increase! What a difference going from a P166 with 32MB RAM to this new motherboard. The only thing is, I have noticed X is very sluggish. At first I thought it was just because I was using VESA, which was taking up memory. So I compiled a 2.4.25 kernel, fine tuned it to K6, etc etc, compiled in support for voodo3 (since I have an old 3dfx voodo3 card), and changed X to use the appropriate driver. Yet, the machine is still slow. By slow, I mean, it is very sluggish. It takes a while in re-rendering windows if I flip pages (I'm using fvwm), It takes a few seconds to re-draw. Xload, shows the system in a constant high-load [2]. Even with no applications open, except the running window manager, the load shown by [2] is constant. I have had top(1) running constantly looking for any relationship between load peaks, and processes, and I cannot see any. As an example: ``` [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ uptime 21:54:26 up 1 day, 4:48, 9 users, load average: 2.83, 2.75, 2.67 ''' ``` [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 515092 424804 90288 0 14436 251408 -/+ buffers/cache: 158960 356132 Swap: 72256 0 72256 [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ ''' These load averages seem to fluctuate to 3.21, but never below those above. At first I thought mozilla1.6 was running amock. I killed that, but the system's Xload usage remaind as constant as in [2]. I even installed 'and', and configured it to see if that would help\ -- nope. At this point, I am wondering if I have a memory leak somewhere. I have run a quick test on my memory via memtest86, and that shows no errors. If it is the kernel, I would be surprised, since I have just installed a 2.4 kernel. I can't quite see how the same consistent error can exist in 2.2. -> 2.4. Has anyone got any suggestions? Kindly, -- Thomas Adam [1] http://linuxmafia.com/~n6tadam/tag/dmesg [2] http://linuxmafia.com/~n6tadam/tag/screenshot.jpg ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:40:22 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83763DEF for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2PNP3lp022051; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:25:03 -0500 Received: from web41104.mail.yahoo.com (web41104.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.20]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2PNOSlp022035 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:24:29 -0500 Message-ID: <20040325232428.28576.qmail@web41104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:24:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] High Load on Computer.... To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040325220839.40430.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:24:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 957 Lines: 33 --- Thomas Adam wrote: > Has anyone got any suggestions? Heh, replying to myself :) I had meant to also say that [3] is there for your persual, but certainly there are no 'D' processes. -- Thomas Adam [3] http://linuxmafia.com/~n6tadam/tag/ps_output ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:40:27 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB1640CD for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q1u3lp030551; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:56:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.84]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q1tQlp030543 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:55:28 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B6gZS-0000vA-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:55:42 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] High Load on Computer.... Message-ID: <20040326015542.GA3417@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040325220839.40430.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040325220839.40430.qmail@web41106.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:55:42 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1583 Lines: 39 On Thu, Mar 25, 2004 at 10:08:39PM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > > Yet, the machine is still slow. By slow, I mean, it is very sluggish. It > takes a while in re-rendering windows if I flip pages (I'm using fvwm), It > takes a few seconds to re-draw. Xload, shows the system in a constant > high-load [2]. Even with no applications open, except the running window > manager, the load shown by [2] is constant. What happens when you run it without any manager, i.e. just start X itself? If the load is still low at that point, what happens when you fire up, say, "twm"? There are times when you have to slice very fine to get to the root cause, and this sounds like one of those. > I have had top(1) running constantly looking for any relationship between > load peaks, and processes, and I cannot see any. As an example: > > ``` > [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ uptime > 21:54:26 up 1 day, 4:48, 9 users, load average: 2.83, 2.75, 2.67 > ''' > > ``` > [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ free > total used free shared buffers cached > Mem: 515092 424804 90288 0 14436 251408 > -/+ buffers/cache: 158960 356132 > Swap: 72256 0 72256 > [n6tadam@station n6tadam]$ > ''' So, where's the output from "top"? :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:40:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E533CD3 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q218lp010245; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:01:08 -0500 Received: from web41112.mail.yahoo.com (web41112.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.28]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2Q20Slp003204 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <20040326020028.15153.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41112.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 02:00:28 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] High Load on Computer.... To: tag@linuxgazette.net In-Reply-To: <20040326015542.GA3417@callahans.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 02:00:28 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 1371 Lines: 43 --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > What happens when you run it without any manager, i.e. just start X > itself? If the load is still low at that point, what happens when you > fire up, say, "twm"? There are times when you have to slice very fine to > get to the root cause, and this sounds like one of those. Thanks, Ben. I have fixed this now within the last ten minutes or so. The problem was with the BIOS. It seemed I had to turn off *all* memory caching in there, and to disable APM since that was causing all kinds of nasties. > So, where's the output from "top"? :) I didn't mention it, because it was purely 'top' itself that was being returned. Thank you :) -- Thomas ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:40:28 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3652B3DF4 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:13:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q283lp015265; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:08:03 -0500 Received: from callahans.org ([170.206.250.84]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2Q27flp015237 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:07:43 -0500 Received: from ben by callahans.org with local (BubbaMail 7.7 (NetBSD)) id 1B6glM-0000wg-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:08:00 -0500 From: Ben Okopnik To: tag@linuxgazette.net Subject: Re: [TAG] High Load on Computer.... Message-ID: <20040326020800.GB3574@callahans.org> Mail-Followup-To: The Answer Gang References: <20040326015542.GA3417@callahans.org> <20040326020028.15153.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040326020028.15153.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> X-gazette-tag: Ben User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Reply-To: The Answer Gang List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:08:00 -0500 Status: RO Content-Length: 1107 Lines: 24 On Fri, Mar 26, 2004 at 02:00:28AM +0000, Thomas Adam wrote: > --- Ben Okopnik wrote: > > > What happens when you run it without any manager, i.e. just start X > > itself? If the load is still low at that point, what happens when you > > fire up, say, "twm"? There are times when you have to slice very fine to > > get to the root cause, and this sounds like one of those. > > Thanks, Ben. I have fixed this now within the last ten minutes or so. The > problem was with the BIOS. It seemed I had to turn off *all* memory > caching in there, and to disable APM since that was causing all kinds of > nasties. [laugh] I just love the TAG effect. Happens on a regular basis. Hey, maybe I should ask you guys for help with this ACPI problem I've got - it would probably solve itself a few seconds later! :) * Ben Okopnik * okopnik.freeshell.org * Technical Editor, Linux Gazette * -=-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=o0o=-=-=-=-=- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:41:19 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7508640CC for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 05:56:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QDp3lp007776; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:51:03 -0500 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QDoQlp007771 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:50:26 -0500 Received: from t14497867@netscape.net by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v37_r1.2.) id 1.e7.c9359dc (22682) for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:50:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from netscape.net (host217-42-138-95.range217-42.btcentralplus.com [217.42.138.95]) by air-in04.mx.aol.com (v98.19) with ESMTP id MAILININ43-589a4064351c30f; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:50:21 -0500 Message-ID: <40643542.6050600@netscape.net> From: spb User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win 9x 4.90; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax; CDonDemand-Dom) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090503090306010403020001" X-AOL-IP: 217.42.138.95 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Subject: [TAG] linux problem 10.0 Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:50:58 +0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 2465 Lines: 52 --------------090503090306010403020001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings answer gang, I reply to your mail yesterday. The computer using today has Microsft ME os, I cannot send any info to you from my linux PC, as when I loaded the upgrade mandrake 10.0 on top of my Mandrake 9.2-( purchased from Mandrake central USA} when after some time(I thought it had installed 10.0) it returned to the welcome desktop screen, from there it is completely frozen, the mouse, the arrow keys , tab key and function keys, so restart many times( by power off and on only,my only option at the moment} I arrive each time to this situation, I cannot get to bios settings to change device priority for startup. to use a boot disk or floppy. I purchased Mandrake 10.0 from Linuz.org in USA they sent two cd's by airmail without any other info except invoice. Please advise a good Linux Tutorial book for home users, I am not IT boffin thank you .spbramwell. --------------090503090306010403020001 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings answer gang, I reply to your mail yesterday.
The computer using today has Microsft ME os,  I cannot send any info to you from my linux PC, as when I loaded the upgrade mandrake 10.0 on top of my Mandrake 9.2-( purchased from Mandrake central USA} when after some time(I thought it had installed 10.0) it returned to the welcome desktop screen, from there it is completely frozen, the mouse, the arrow keys , tab key and function keys, so restart many times( by power off and on only,my only option at the moment} I arrive each time to this situation, I cannot get to bios settings  to change device priority for startup. to use  a boot disk or floppy. I purchased Mandrake 10.0 from Linuz.org in USA  they sent two cd's by airmail  without any other info except invoice. Please advise a good Linux Tutorial book for home users, I am not IT boffin thank you .spbramwell.
 --------------090503090306010403020001-- _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag From star Sun Mar 28 09:41:24 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: star+lg@starshine.org Received: from antares.starshine.org [216.240.40.177] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.11) for star@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:41:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (genetikayos.com [64.246.26.120]) by mx.starshine.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFB9C3EEC for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 06:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from genetikayos.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id i2QE18lp019857; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:01:08 -0500 Received: from web41115.mail.yahoo.com (web41115.mail.yahoo.com [66.218.93.31]) by genetikayos.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with SMTP id i2QE0ilp016008 for ; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:00:44 -0500 Message-ID: <20040326140042.24091.qmail@web41115.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [217.42.100.43] by web41115.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:00:42 GMT From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Thomas=20Adam?= Subject: Re: [TAG] linux problem 10.0 To: tag@linuxgazette.net Cc: t14497867@netscape.net In-Reply-To: <40643542.6050600@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net Errors-To: tag-admin@linuxgazette.net X-BeenThere: tag@linuxgazette.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tag@linuxgazette.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: The Answer Gang List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:00:42 +0000 (GMT) Status: RO Content-Length: 2019 Lines: 58 --- spb wrote: > Greetings answer gang, I reply to your mail yesterday. Hello, again. > keys , tab key and function keys, so restart many times( by power off > and on only,my only option at the moment} I arrive each time to this > situation, I cannot get to bios settings to change device priority for > startup. to use a boot disk or floppy. I purchased Mandrake 10.0 from Presumably you managed to boot off of a CD just fine. In that case, I suggest (no, I urge you) to download knoppix [1] and boot from that. If you have not the facilities to burn CDs, then find someone who can. Why exactly can't you access your BIOS? Also, as this is Mandrake, having done [2] (which may or maynot be strictly necessary -- I can't tell), I suggest when you next boot into Linux, you issue: linux 3 (at the LILO/Grub prompt) so that you're forced into a text-only mode. Hoipefully you should be able to report back to us whether you can login or not, and whether your keyboard is still locked, etc. > Linuz.org in USA they sent two cd's by airmail without any other info > except invoice. Please advise a good Linux Tutorial book for home users, The book I used wqas "Running Linux", Matt Walsh, et al. Publsihed by O'reilly. You'll find it on amazon no problems. -- Thomas Adam [1] http://www.knoppix.net ===== "The Linux Weekend Mechanic" -- http://linuxgazette.net "TAG Editor" -- http://linuxgazette.net " We'll just save up your sins, Thomas, and punish you for all of them at once when you get better. The experience will probably kill you. :)" -- Benjamin A. Okopnik (Linux Gazette Technical Editor) ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html _______________________________________________ TAG mailing list TAG@linuxgazette.net http://linuxgazette.net/mailman/listinfo/tag

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