Contents of this section
RJ recently gave a talk at Trinity College in Dublin. Our man on the Scene, Emmet O'Brien reports:
Robert Jordan arrived at 6:00 this evening in Trinity College for his talk.. this being Ireland, the talk didn't start for a further ten minutes, but in the meantime he signed books for those of us who actually turned up on time. The turn out was pretty disappointing considering TFoH is no. 2 on the best-seller lists here: only about thirty people were there including SF society mafia.
He didn't have any prepared speech but took questions from the floor. He still isn't sure how long WoT will go on for, saying probably seven books but adding that when TEotW first came out he saw the series as four books.. he does however know what the ending will be and how all the major story lines will resolve. He expressed vague dissatisfaction with the covers but didn't seem too upset about them.
He talked for a while about 'reverse engineering' various mythos, removing the culture-specific elements and combining the stories, giving the example of the Wolfbrother idea, which was derived partly from the Native American Coyote trickster/savior figure, of whom both Mat and Perrin reflect aspects.
He does not intend to speed up as the end of the series approaches: the books are planned to come out at the same rate until the end..
He raised the point that Rand's creeping insanity may manifest in much more subtle ways than the people of Randland expect.. which leads one to wonder about Rand's increasing withdrawal and possible megalomania..
I think he is aware of the net discussion: he expressed surprise at the amount of analysis and comparison with Tolkien, Dune etc. [ I felt tempted to mention A. A. Milne ] and somebody in the audience compared WoT to _Atlas Shrugged_, which really seemed to surprise him. His attitude is that once he has written one book [ and publicized it ] it is time to move on to the next..
The only deliberate connection between WoT and any other modern fantasy was giving the first 100-odd pages of TEotW a Lord of the Rings-esque flavor, to start people off in familiar territory.
Specific questions: Lews Therin Telamon's suicide was emphatically _not_ balefire, but an overload of the Power. And when Verin was mentioned, he just said he hoped he kept surprising people.
His first Conan novel he wrote because there was money offered. Having discovered that it was fun to write Conan, he wrote five more including the novelization of the second movie, and then spent a year convincing people that he was not going to write any more Conan.. he was quite adamant on this point.
His first _novel_ was accepted and then rejected, sold and then rights reverted to him.. he says he will never publish it as it is not very good, but keeps it as it seems to be lucky for him..
He regards being taught to read at an early age and reading anything and everything he could get his hands on as being very important to his decision to write, and to what he writes and how he writes it.. he writes Fantasy because it allows more straightforward discussion of good and evil than fiction set in the modern world.
[ I got the impression that learning to read at age three is considered precocious in the USA.. just another example of how far you colonials have fallen.. :-) ]
He also spoke for quite some time on the splitting of the One Power into male and female halves, and on the disharmony produced when they don't work together.. this came across as one of the core elements in the origin of WoT. [ re: Yin/Yang - leaving out the little dots in the symbol is an intentional representation of the lack of harmony between male/female Power in RandLand ]
That was about it.. a lot covered for half an hour. There was a strong impression that more of the books are made up as he goes along than a reading of all the foreshadowing etc. might lead you to expect..
A thought that occurred to me afterwards.. if at book one he expected to finish the series in three more books, and at book five he expects to take two more books, then logically the series should actually end up as thirteen books...
Tom McCormick claims to have received a letter from RJ. I tend to believe that his claims are authentic, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong. Anyway, here are excerpts:
I found the compendium fascinating. It is startling how much your group has puzzled out correctly, but I have to tell you that some of what you worked out is wrong, concerning both me and the books, but I have it in mind not to tell you which parts. That way you can have the pleasure of figuring out for yourselves where you went astray. (Easy to say that when I'm four or five thousand miles away.) ...
[RE: the time zones thing in TFOH when Rand & Aviendha go to Seanchan for some MPS] Yes, the timing was calculated. I know how far to the west Seanchan lies. ...
I have been a writer for seventeen years now, and have had a number of other books published (Westerns, international intrigue, historical fiction), as well as essays, dance review and theatre criticism, but no other fantasy save the Conan novels. I've written only one piece of short fiction in my life, aside from school assignments, and it was never published. I will probably write in those other genres again from time to time; I enjoy them. I am working on something unconnected with THE WHEEL OF TIME, though I have not yet begun writing it. (Books percolate about in my head for a long time before anything goes onto paper.) It will be the next thing after THE WHEEL is complete. It will be fantasy, in a different universe than THE WHEEL.
My editor says it will be people's chance to see a society like the Seanchan Empire, but that is simply because most of the action will take place in a culture much like Seanchan. The main male character, who is shipwrecked there, comes from a place that might he considered a cross between Elizabethan England and the Italian city-states of the Renaissance with touches of the seventeenth century. I intend him to be a man in his thirties, a man of some experience and worldliness in his own culture (though this does him only occasional good where he finds himself), in contrast to Rand's innocence and naivete. The major female character is a noblewoman of the land where he is shipwrecked; by the law, whatever is cast up on the shores of her estates belongs to her: the ship, its cargo -- its crew. Of course, a good many details will surely change between now and the commencement of writing (they always do), but that is the general form. No working title yet beyond SHIPWRECK. I expect to do the story in two or possibly three books.
As far as any message to the folks on the net.... It is really quite an honour to find out that so many of you want to discuss my books in such detail. Frankly, I'm both pleased and amazed that you have put so much time and effort into it. Well, I hoped I was writing something that would hold people's interest; it seems maybe I have. One thing -- don't think you've reached bottom in your digging. I tried to make the books fairly simple on the surface, and quite complex underneath. You've dug up a number of points that I thought I had buried well enough that they wouldn't come to light for some time yet (don't expect me to say which ones), and you've also dug up one or two that I never buried in the first place (no hints there, either). Jordan's Law, I think, can better be stated along these lines: "Ah, you think you know how the game goes now? Very good, gentlemen. what say we increase the bets just to make it interesting?".
Elayne denies that Galad is her brother. Thom was around at the right time. Thom clearly had something to do with Taringail's disappearance. Thom was Morgase 's lover. In [TFoH: 19, Memories, 252], Morgase thinks about Taringail, and how the only good to come of the marriage were "two beautiful children." This could be Elayne and Gawyn , or she could mean Galad (adopted) and Gawyn.
Evidence from the Glossary: "A Royal Prince of Cairhien, he married Tigraine and _fathered_ Galadedrid. When Tigraine disappeared and was declared dead, he married Morgase and _fathered_ Elayne and Gawyn." [TEotW: Glossary, 787, entry "Damodred, Prince Taringail", 661] Although the glossary entries have been misleading before (e.g. Ba'alzamon), I do not think that RJ has ever lied outright in them. I personally cannot think of a way that the above could be a sneaky, Aes Sedai-like twisting of the truth.
Furthermore, Moiraine says Thom was Morgase's lover for a while, after Taringail died (emphasis mine) [TSR: 17, Deceptions, 194]. Here, Moiraine is trying to impress Thom with how much she knows. She wouldn't include a detail she had any doubt about. To be wrong about something in such a situation would indicate faulty research, and Moiraine would not risk showing any gap in her knowledge. If she had any doubt at all, she wouldn't have mentioned the timing of events. Plus, Thom didn't say or think anything to contradict Moiraine's statement.
Survey Says: Is Thom Elayne's da? Yes: 53, No: 28.
Moiraine says she knows the face of the man she will marry better than the girls know their future husbands. [TSR: 6, 126, Doorways, 90-1] This could mean that she will never marry. The reason that seems unlikely is because, according to Elayne, Moiraine had some passion in her voice when she mentioned husband, despite her attempts to then brush it off. After going through the Tear twisted doorway , which only answers personal questions, she immediately tells Thom that he will live through the next set of adventures. Thom keeps referring to Moiraine as a good looking woman with more and more sincerity as time progresses and discovers he no longer loves Morgase.
Possible scenario: How would she know who it was? Being Aes Sedai she'd likely have a lot of chances, but here's my guess. When Min describes how her viewings work her standard example is this; I see two people who have never met and know they will marry--and of course we had both Thom and Moiraine in front of her in Baerlon. So, this would also be the reason why 1) Moiraine was so sure Thom hadn't been killed by a Fade, despite Rand's and Mat's protestations, and 2) why she tells Thom "I will see you again. You will survive Tarabon." [TSR: 17, 278, Deceptions, 195] (After her little trip through Rhuidean she may have decided that perhaps Min was wrong and that Lanfear would kill her)
Survey Says: will Thom marry Moiraine, if she is alive? Yes: 53, No, 28.
Well, we don't know what happened after Moiraine & Lanfear fell through the twisted doorway into the land of the Foxes . Lacking such information, the only evidence we have is:
More interpretation on Eg's "blue stone" vision:
firstname.lastname@example.org [need a name here] suggests that it could
possibly mean that Thom will do something to preserve her dream of
Rand facing the DO alive and well at Tarmon Gai'don.
Perhaps he was involuntarily bonded to a Black or to a Forsaken. His eyes were glazed and he was not necessarily in control of himself. Alviarin says that " Gawyn is under control" even though Morgase's stepson ( Galad ) is not.
Personally, I think he was in full control of his faculties during the coup. By that time, he had developed a good & solid hatred for SS, due to Elayne and Egwene's mysterious disappearance.
Probably some sort of leader of the Ancient Aes Sedai. The Tamyrlin had a ring just as the Amyrlin has a seat. From [TEotW: Prologue, xi, Dragonmount, xi] Elan Morin grimaced. "Look at you," he said scornfully. "Once you stood first among the Servants. Once you wore the Ring of Tamyrlin, and sat in the High Seat. Once you summoned the Nine Rods of Dominion. Now look at you!"
Daughter of the Nine Moons indicates the heir to the throne of the Seanchan . This is most likely Tuon, the second daughter of the Seanchan Empress who is mentioned by High Lord Turak in Falme. [TGH: 34, 497, The Wheel Weaves, 420]. An outside runner is Berelain, who is descended from Hawkwing and thus "of the Blood," literally. Part of that theory is that "half the light of the world" refers to Mayene being a great supplier of lamp oil.
Survey Says: Who will Mat wed?
See also: Various prophecies - Aelfinn & Eelfinn
The prophecy: "Into the heart", etc. (see Various prophecies ) suggests that maybe somebody besides Rand is going to remove the Callandor from the Stone: "Who draws it out shall follow after".
Maybe Logain (His future glory - see Min's Viewings )? It has been suggested that Logain could somehow get the power back, and thereby use Callandor.
His foxhead amulet prevents direct access to saidin/saidar(?) on him [TFoH: 6, Gateways, 117], although not indirect results of saidar/saidin (such as the thunderbolt from the end of TFoH). [TFoH: 54, To Caemlyn, 649]
See also: Mat - Aelfinn & Eelfinn
[TEotW: 40, 606, The Web Tightens, 508] : Elaida doesn't like Rats.
[TSR: 1, 38, Seeds of Shadow, 29-30]: "Whatever Siuan was up to, she had to be stopped. Turmoil and chaos multiplied on every side. The Dark One was sure to break free-- the very thought made Elaida shiver and wrap her shawl around her more tightly--and the Tower had to be aloof from mundane struggles to face that. The Tower had to be free to pull the strings to make the nations stand together, free of the troubles Rand al'Thor would bring. Somehow, he had to be stopped from destroying Andor. [since Andor, and its royalty, are the key to defeating the DO.]"
[TFoH: Prologue, The First Sparks Fall, 13-21] and [TFoH: 19, Memories, 260]: Elaida is pretty clearly a dupe.
Lan & Moiraine 's conversation in [TGH: 22, 322-4, Watchers,271-2] tells us that Moiraine has arranged for Lan's bond to pass to Myrelle, a Green who is currently in Salidar. It may be that Moiraine has made further arrangements for Myrelle to pass him on to Nynaeve , once she is ready. (She will have him if I die, but not before [TSR: 21, 337, Into the Heart] Whether Moiraine is dead or not, it seems that she expected to die in her attack on Lanfear). It's been stated that, if one closely scrutinizes the wording of the conversation, that Moiraine could've been twisting around the truth. There's one major hole in the theory. Moiraine, talking on about her passing of the bond, a page past all the other things she said: Not a test, Lan. I spoke plainly, not twisting, and I have done as I said. [TGH: 22, 324, Watchers, 273] Admittedly, she could have changed things between TGH and TFOH, which is where dissenting opinion #1 comes in.
Dissenting opinions duly noted: 1) Lan is bonded to Ny. 2) Lan is still bonded to Moiraine; he detects her to the West at the Tower of Ghenjei.
Survey says: who is Lan bonded to:
Whoever did it, it was somebody he wasn't expecting to see, and was very afraid of.
Survey Says: Who killed JoaR?
Ny made her drink Forkroot (suppresses channeling) in T'A'R. It seems very likely that the 3 refugees who came with Ny, El , & Birgitte are Mog and the two BA who were with her.
[TFoH: 49, To Boannda, 569-70] There were three refugees: Nicole, Marigain (the mother), and Ariana Nicole is described as having "big eyes"; I think she's Temaile Kinderode, who was described as having "big blue eyes". Marigain, who describes herself as an Amadician "wise-woman" equivalent, and whom Nynaeve thinks is rather ignorant, is, IMO, Chesmal Emry, the Yellow. She's good enough to fake being only semi-knowledgeable.
(As for her kids being silent and afraid, they're afraid of someone they know is pretending to be their mother; no further explanation required. That, or Moghedien turned their brains to mush before bringing them along to complete the disguise.)
Note that Chesmal and Temaile were the only ones _with_ Moghedien when she learned where Nynaeve was (aside from the new scullery maid Liandrin, heh heh heh).
That leaves Ariana to be Moghedien, and at one point (I think when they've just disembarked before heading through the woods to Salidar) she is described as staring intently at Birgitte... something only Moghedien would be likely to do. (The two Black Ajah don't know her from Eve) (Tony Z).
Survey says: What will happen to Moggy?
There is definitely something up with Aram , Egwene's Dream [TFoH: 15, What Can Be Learned in Dreams, 214] indicates that Aram is going to get Perrin into trouble: "...the tinker. Every time he moved closer to Perrin it was if a chill of doom shot through everything."
This may just mean that there is something doom-filled about Aram being a tinker with a sword.
Not bloody likely.
Possibly. The WOs have a plot to make Rand "know (the Aiel's) blood for (his) own." Aviendha has "been more successful than [the WOs ] know," according to Amys. [54, to Caemlyn, 643] Then again, they could just be meaning for him to fall in love with and marry Aviendha, and are congratulating her on 'getting into Rand's pants,' as Sean Hillyard so eloquently puts it. Evidence for the latter: Rand has asked Aviendha many times now to marry him, and that at one point a Wise One comments [TSR: 50, Traps, 570] "I will make you know our blood for yours is I have to lay the..." Aiel ask to marry by laying a wreath of flowers at a mans feet, ie their goal is marriage and Aviendha has been quite successful--all she has to do now is accept.
Survey says: Is Aviendha pregnant? yes--68, no--14
Well, she was working on it in Salidar. We have discovered that it is somehow tied to fear. (In part, fear of Moghedien. In general, I think it is a fear of not being strong enough/good enough/something like that.) We saw her overcome this fear at the end of TFoH, and at one point, Nynaeve was surprised to find herself "drinking deeply of the Source," or something like that. This could indicate that she had finally brought down the block, or it could just be her channeling through Moghedien and the a'dam. Even if she is still blocked, she's getting there.
Survey says: Is Ny blocked? Yes--58, No--25
Survey says: Cain is...
Tony Z.: Looks like they'll capture Salidar early next book. "Hmm.. Unless they land at Ebou Dar and go north, the Seanchan will have to go through Amadicia to get to Salidar, meaning that Pedron Niall is in for the (shortest) fight of his life. Perhaps Geofram Bornhald's failed attack on Falme is a foreshadowing of this greater debacle?"
Bill Garrett: What do we have here in Salidar? The renegade Aes Sedai, Gareth Bryne and some Andor soldiers, Nynaeve, Elayne, Thom, Juilin, and some Shienarans, Moghedien (maybe) and a few BA (maybe), other BA (probably) Rand, who might travel to Salidar or ask Ny&Elayne to Caemlyn, Morgase and company arriving soon (or so I think) Whitecloaks stomping through sometime soon, Seanchan coming through after they finish in Tanchico?? What else could happen? Any Aiel in the vicinity? Maybe Perrin and Faile have decided to go on a honeymoon to small towns in Altara. Maybe Valan Luca will arrive soon, having been so smitten by Nynaeve that he followed them south. That would truly make the place a circus. ;)
Then again, we have the rumors of somebody taking Tanchico. Could be High Lady Suroth, back from her south seas vacation.
Survey says: Are all the seals broken? Yes: 08, No: 74
Read the end of TDR. Notice that he has split in two? (Similar to Asmodean splitting in TSR, but Asmodean was re-joined.) Does this mean anything? This seems very troubling. [TDR: 55, 666, What is Written in Prophesy, 570] NB: Everybody (all the Forsaken ) seems to think he is dead.
TRAKANDS & MANTEARS / ANDOR D A M O D R E D S/ (rumored to have Aiel blood) C A I R H E I N -=---------------------- +-----------=LAMAN--=BARTHANES | | | | | (cousin) | LUC* (JANDUIN) -+- TIGRAINE(M)m TARINGAIL MOIRAINE | (M) clan chief | (Daughter Heir (heir?) (half sister | of Taardad | of Andor ---+---------+ of Taringail) | | AKA SHAIEL) | | | | | | | | GALADEDRID | | RAND | | | MORGASE(T)-------------------+---------------+ | GAWYN(T)** & ELAYNE(T)** (Daughter Heir of Andor) M A L K I E R I --------------------------------------------- | | LAIN m. BREYAN allied with COWIN AL'AKIR m. EL'LEANNA | | ISAM LAN * Merges with ISAM, son of BREYAN to form SLAYER ** Possibly bastard of THOM MERRILIN, the gray fox = Exact links unknown
See: EL.idx - Galad.idx - Gawyn.idx - Isam.idx - Lan.idx - Luc.idx - Moiraine.idx - Morgase.idx - Rand.idx - Tigraine.idx - Thom.idx
by Ruchira Datta.
It is a certainty that Tigraine was Rand 's mother, Shaiel.
Tigraine was the Daughter-Heir of Andor, and was married to Taringail Damodred. They had a son, Galad . Tigraine and her brother Luc were sent to Tar Valon, in the usual tradition of the royalty of Andor. Tigraine vanished mysteriously from Tar Valon, never to be heard from again. [TEotW: 34, 525-6, The Last Village, 441-2]
In [TSR: 34, 562, He Who Comes With the Dawn, 392-3], we learn about Rand's mother, Shaiel. Her tale corresponds marvelously with Tigraine's.
Add to this the fact that so many people comment on how Rand looks like the Royal Family of Andor (Lord Barthanes, Perrin after meeting Luc), and there you have it. Finally, TFoH left off with a bunch of Aiel hanging around the Palace in Caemlyn, where one of the older ones can conveniently take a stroll through the Royal Portrait Gallery!
by John Novak.
Q: Who is Slayer? What is he up to?
Slayer seems to be a some sort of mix of Luc (brother of Tigraine) and Isam (cousin of Lan):
Luc was Tigraine's brother. When she disappeared, he went wandering and was lost in the Blight. Isam is Lan's cousin. His mother conspired with Cowin (a Darkfriend), and thereby brought about the fall of Malkier. Baby Isam and his mom were ridden down by Trollocs as she fled. [TEotW: 47, 710, More Tales of the Wheel, 596] The next we hear of Isam is in the Dark Prophecy. It is said that Isam ambushed Luc in the high passes near the Mountains of Dhoom, that one lived, one died, but both are.
Now, go reread everything about Slayer and Luc in TSR. You'll see that Slayer, in the world of dreams, had a very very close resemblance to Lan. Like, maybe, could be, cousins...? You'll also notice that when Perrin shot Slayer in the World of Dreams, Luc was the one physically hurt in the real world.
Martin Terman: Actually, in TFoH, there is a minor scene which may give a real clue as to the Luc/Isam thing. At one point when Rand is in the T'A'R, the memories of LTT are threatening to overwhelm his mind, and his body starts shifting to look like that of LTT. [TFoH: 55 The Threads Burn, 664] It may be that Isam took over Luc's body totally. Thus in the real world he looks like Luc. In T'A'R, where his mind is totally that of Isam, he looks like his original body.
As for his mission, it seems that Slayer was originally sent to the Two Rivers to hunt down Padan Fain [TSR: 42, 687, A Missing Leaf, 477], and to stir up trouble in general. We don't know what happened to him after Perrin shot him in TSR.
Additional Slayer tidbits: He frequents the Tower of Ghenjei. According to Birgitte, Isam is in T'A'R in the flesh.
Survey Says: will Perrin free Luc from T'A'R and kill Isam? Yes:42, No: 36.
The "Severed Hand" controversy centers around several of Min 's visions. For Elayne , she has seen:
Survey says: will Rand lose a hand? Yes: 52, No: 32.
by Courtenay Footman, Sean Hillyard, Pam Korda
Rand: In TFoH, Moiraine notes that it has been almost 21 years since the
search began for the Dragon Reborn. [TFoH: 15, What Can Be Learned in
Dreams, 214] That puts Rand's age at about 21, and so he started
at about 19.
Egwene is two years younger than Rand, so about 19, started at 17.
Elayne is about the same age as Egwene (19).
Min is older than Rand, younger than Nynaeve, say 23, starting at 21.
Gawyn, MAT, and PERRIN are the same age as Rand (21).
Galad: Tigraine disappeared in 972 when he was an infant. Puts him at 27.
Nyneave was just old enough to recall Tam bringing baby Rand back to Emond's field -- say about 5. That puts her at 26 now, 24 at the beginning.
Moiraine was Accepted (and about to be raised Aes Sedai) at the end of the Aiel War. Age approx. 25 (older Accepted Age) + 21 = mid-forties
Lan was an infant when Malkier fell, which occurred less than 50 years from the start of the series. So Lan is something under 50, say mid-40s?
Liandrin is referred to as young, not just young seeming as are all Aes Sedai, about 27.
Elaida has about 5 years (was one of the Accepted who watched over her when she was a Novice) on Moiraine, late forties-early fifties.
Siuan Sanche is about the same age as Moiraine -- mid-forties, although she looks very young due to stilling.
Moghedien, she claims she was a couple centuries, and young for Aes Sedai, when bound.
[ Aes Sedai may be translated as 'Servant to All' although they were called at times 'Servants of the Light']
Blue: Meddle in causes
Red: Prevent another Breaking (i.e., hunt down men who can channel)
White: Philosophers -"Consider the questions of truth with implacable logic"
Green: The Battle Ajah - "love men"
Brown: Seekers of old knowledge, librarians
Black : Do ya' really need to ask?
On tinkers , soldiers, warriors and the dragon
He is the last of the Nym, a type of creature which was made of vegetable matter. He is described first in [TEotW: 49, 739-40, The Dark One Stirs, 621]. However we find out exactly who he is in the fourth book.
[TSR: 26, 432, The Dedicated, 303] "A stir at the end of the field told him one of the Nym was approaching. The great form, head and shoulders and chest taller than any Ogier, stepped out onto the seeded ground, and Coumin did not have to see to know he left footprints filled with sprouting things. It was Someshta, surrounded by clouds of butterflies, white and yellow and blue...Each field would have its Nym, now...the Nym were older than anyone. Some said the Nym never died, not so long as plants grew..."
Many years later, after the breaking, we see him again, this time with the characteristic fissure in his face. He is being set to the task of guarding the Eye of the World, the Horn, the dragon banner and one of the seals. [TSR: 26, 428, The Dedicated, 300-1]
The Tinkers, an early offshoot of the Aiel, decided to give up their duty of hiding xxx'angreal and instead dedicate their lives to refinding the safety and peace of their past. [TSR: 26, 423, The Dedicated, 296] They believe this will come about through finding the "growing song," described in [TSR: 26, 432, The Dedicated, 303]:
"The Ogier began it, as was fitting, standing to sing, great bass rumbles like the earth singing. The Aiel rose, men's voices lifting in their own song, even the deepest at a higher pitch than the Ogier's. Yet the songs braided together, and Someshta took those threads and wove them into his dance...The song caught him up, and he almost felt that it was himself, not the sounds he made that Someshta wove into the soil and around the seeds."
The Song is not to be confused with the Ogier Tree-Songs. The Ogier songs may be the Ogier part of the growing ceremony described above, or they may be something similar, but different in purpose. The Tinkers' Song is the human part of the ceremony.
Personally, I don't think the Song will be found. It is a thing of a past Age, not of the coming one. However, since people seem to think it will be found, we shall continue:
The primary contenders are Aram , Perrin and Rand . Aram's stated life goal had been to find the song until he took up the sword in defense of Emond's Field and became 'Lost' to his people. To find the song would reinstate him and justify his choice of giving up the peaceful 'way of the leaf'.
Perrin on the other hand keeps getting faced with the choice of ax or hammer: that is, the choice of creation or destruction, war or peace, way-of-the-warrior or way-of-the-leaf. Furthermore, Perrin is a contender to find the song because of Min's viewing of Perrin standing among the flowering trees.
Rand, and probably some of the Aiel clan chiefs, have actually _heard_ the Song in the glass columns of Rhuidean.
Further Evidence that Rand will find the song: [TEotW: prologue, xv, Dragonmount, xv] "ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs."
Another opinion is that the Song will not be found. It is a thing of a past Age, not of the coming one.
Survey says: Who will discover the Song?
Survey says: Will Perrin pick the axe or the hammer (whatever that means)?
The Aiel (formerly the Da'shain Aiel) were the Dedicated who worked for the Ancient Aes Sedai. The group was hereditary and had feature of light skin, gray or blue eyes and mostly reddish or blond hair. All Aiel could be identified by their particular hair style which was cut short with a tail hanging in the back. They were dedicated to a life of non-violence, following the way of the leaf.
The male Aiel worked with the Ogier and the Nym in planting as they had the gift of the Voice, the seed singing. Although the Ogier continue to have tree singers, the voice of the Aiel seems to be a talent that has disappeared.
When the Aiel did their work in the fields, they wore light gray and brown working clothes (cadin'sor). The clothes, the hair style and the avoidance of the use of weaponry which cannot be used for other purposes remains today, but the talent of the Voice is currently unknown.
Contributors: Sean Hillyard, Pam Korda, Courtenay Footman. Song by Ruchira and Rupa Datta>
This land is Rand-Land, this land's Egwene-Land, from Arad Doman to the Aiel Waste-Land. From Kinslayer's Dagger, to the Dragon's Fingers, this land was made by LTT.
General: Capital city, Caemlyn. Oldest city-state in RandLand,
established not long after the breaking, with Queen of Andor
the oldest title in RandLand. Unique traditions of sending
the heir and expected first prince to train in the White
Tower, and having an open Aes Sedai advisor.
Rulers: Matriarchy, with a male advisor and head of the army called the First Prince of the Sword. Ruled for the last twenty years by Queen Morgase of House Trakand. Heir to the throne (Daughter-heir), Elayne.
Current events: Queen Morgase missing, presumed dead. Lord Gaebril, aka Rahvin dead. The Dragon Reborn is holding the throne for the Daughter-Heir, Elayne. The Two Rivers district has seemingly declared independence
Symbol: White lion on a red field
Home of: Morgase, Elayne, Gawyn, Galad, Gareth Bryne, "Lord Gaebril," Tigraine/Shaiel, Lord Luc
Tourist Attractions: Palace gardens, reached by climbing Palace wall.
Map: [TEotW: (before) 13, 172, Choices, 144] (partial map of Andor) [TFoH: (before) 54, To Caemlyn, 642] (map of Caemlyn)
General: Capital--Cairhien. National Pastime--Game of Houses, played by
everyone from the king to Commoners. The previous king, Laman,
caused the Aiel War by chopping down the Tree of Life sapling to make
a throne. Highly dependent upon grain imports from Tear & Andor.
Symbol--rising sun (golden) on field of blue
Gov't: Monarchy. Last king: Galldrian of House Riatin. The Cairhienin political process consists of the nobles scheming for position, playing the Game of Houses.
Current Events: The recent assassinations of Galldrian and the strongest contender for the throne (Lord Barthanes) have left the other Houses fighting one another in a random war of succession, leaving the country in a state of anarchy. Andor was beginning to look at the Cairhienin civil war as an opportunity to expand its borders. To make matters worse, the country was recently invaded by a bunch of renegade Aiel. The Dragon Reborn has taken power, defeating the Aiel, but has yet to name somebody to sit upon the Sun Throne for him.
Tourist Attractions: Largest (& most powerful) male-oriented sa'angreal, Royal Library--largest collection of knowledge outside Tar Valon.
Home of: Moiraine, Taringail
General: Capital--Illian. Starting point for the Great Hunt for the Horn.
Traditional enemy of Tear. Climate--Hot and Humid
Gov't: Mixed government, with a King, a House of Lords (the council of Nine), and a House of Commons (the Assemblage)
Current events: Outset of the Great Hunt. Escalating hostilities between Illian and Tear (closing of borders, trade forbidden). Council of Nine dominated by Lord Brend, aka Sammael.
Tourist Attractions: King's Palace, and its copy, the Hall of the Council
Home of: Bayle Domon
General: Was one of the borderlands, located N of Shienar. Destroyed due
to treachery of the last king's sister-in-law (Breyan) and Cowin
Fairheart (Great Lord & Darkfriend). Symbol: golden crane.
Gov't: Monarchy. Last king--al'Akir Mandragoran. Uncrowned heir-- al'Lan Mandragoran.
Current Events --Doesn't exist anymore, has been swallowed up by the Blight
Tourist Attractions: Ruins of the Seven Towers, the 1000 Lakes
Home of: Lan, Isam, Jain(m) Farstrider
Map: [TEotW: (before) 46, 688, Fal Dara, 578] (with Shienar)
General: Capital city--Fal Moran. Due to its location (borderlands),its
society has a strong militaristic streak. Quaint local
fashion--fighting men shave their heads, except for a
topknot. Symbol--black hawk
Gov't: Monarchy, current king--Easar of house Togita
Current events: Held off Trolloc hoard at Tarwin's Gap (with a little help from their friends). Unspecified troubles, probably over news of the Dragon Reborn carried North by Hurin, the sniffer.
Tourist Attractions: Lotsa military stuff, nice signal towers
Home of: Ingtar, Lord Agelmar, Lady Amalisa, Uno, Masema, Hurin
Map: [TEotW: (before) 46, 688, Fal Dara, 578]
General: Capital--Tanchico. Local fashion: women wear their hair in
numerous little braids, men and women wear veils. Symbol--tree.
Gov't: Monarchy-ish. There are two independent monarchs, the King and the Panarch, each has his/her own duties.
Tourist Attractions: Panarch's museum--artifacts from past ages.
Map: [TSR: 38, Hidden Faces, 429] (map of Tanchico)
General: Collection of farming communities bounded by the Mountains of
Mist, the R. Taren, and the White River. Products--tabac &wool. The people have a reputation of stubbornness. Quaint local
fashion--girls wear their hair loose, women wear it braided.
Gov't: Although it is officially part of Andor, it "has not seen a tax collector in six generations, nor the Queen's Guards in seven." Each autonomous village is run by two elected bodies--the Women's Circle (women), headed by the Wisdom, and the Village Council (men), headed by the Mayor. If there is a need for inter-village action, it is negotiated by the mayors or Councils of the villages
Current events: Hunting ground of Slayer (aka Lord Luc). Overrun by Trollocs & Whitecloaks as part of Ordeith's plot against Rand. Trollocs & Whitecloaks alike dealt with under the leadership of Perrin, who may be on his way to becoming "lord" of the Two Rivers, by popular demand. Improvised symbol: Wolf's Head.
Tourist Attractions: Eldrene's Veil, Master al'Vere's clock
Home of: do ya have to ask?
Map: [TEotW: (before) 1, xviii, An Empty Road, xviii]
Historical Note: In ancient times was Manetheren, destroyed in the Trolloc Wars. Sign of Manetheren: Red Eagle
Sign: silver fish on dark blue
Sean Hillyard, Mike Lemons, Judy Ghirardelli, Emma Pease, Erica Sadun, Pam Korda, many others whose names have been lost in the mists of FAQ
"By the Light and my hope of salvation and rebirth, I swear to serve you in whatever way you require for as long as you require, or may the Creator's face turn from me forever and darkness consume my soul." [TFoH: 1, Fanning The Sparks, 39[
Erica Sadun: YES, there is, but not much. It is pretty secular. It may be closer to many pagan religions or in some cases to Judaism rather than Christianity. However, like x'ty, there is a dualism between the light and the creator who are often spoken of separately and together. Like Judaism, burials are as simple as possible to encourage return to the earth. Like the religions of old merry England, the maypole is a fertility ritual. Like Catholicism, children are taught catechism. Wisdoms act as priestesses. Like Judaism, marriage is a public announcement to the community.
This does not even begin to touch on the religious aspects of the Aes Sedai. They have novices (like nuns), they are considered to be 'servants of all', the rituals of acceptance and joining the sisterhood are rigid with many religious overtones. They are expected to serve the Light and the will of the creator when they join the Aes Sedai. They are almost Buddhist in certain ways: in particular the view of the time serpent, the wheel of time and the age lace. The Children of Light are another religious organization, in this case a religious organization in turmoil with inappropriate goals and methods.
Finally, we have the Tinkers, a religious cult more or less who follow the early Xtian/Calvinist Way of the Leaf, a cross between pacifism and acceptance of fate.
Jocelyn: Glad you asked,
Rand took a deep breath. As much to remind himself as for any other reason, he said by rote, "The Dark One and all of the Forsaken are bound in Shayol Ghul, beyond the Great Blight, bound by the Creator at the moment of Creation, bound until the end of time. The hand of the Creator shelters the world, and the Light shines on us all."
Near the Winespring, a score of older women sang softly as they erected the Spring Pole...the slender trunk of a fir tree stood ten feet high even in the hole they had dug for it. A knot of young girls...watched enviously, occasionally singing snatches of songs the women sang...at noon the unmarried women would dance the Pole...while the unmarried men sang.
[Loial Says:] "Shienarans believe we all came from earth, and must return to earth. They never use coffins or shrouds, and the bodies are never clothed. The earth must hold the body. The last embrace of the mother, they call it. And there are never any words except 'The Light shine on you, and the Creator shelter you. The last embrace of the Mother welcome you home.'"
Which is how he found himself not a half an hour later kneeling opposite her in the common room, in front of Daise Congar and Marin al'Vere....and all the Women's Circle. Loial had been roused to stand for him with Aram, and Bain and Chiad stood for Faile... Marin tucked a long red wedding ribbon around his neck, and Loial threaded another through Faile's dark hair..."I, Perrin Aybara, do pledge you my love, Faile Bashere, for as long as I live"...
"Peace be on you always," Elyas replied, "and on all the People." He hesitated, then added, "I will find the song, or another will find the song, but the song will be sung, this year or in a year to come. As it once was so shall it be again, world without end."..."Peace be on you," Elyas said. "And on you," Raen said sadly.
OTOH, in Randland, the Creator is. The DO is. No one disbelieves in their existence; they are there. They are far more concrete and present in everyday life than our God(s) is/are in our lives. If you cross the Blight to Shayol Ghul, you will find a mountain with a hole in its side and evil leaking out. Thus, many of the rituals and other trappings of _organized_ religion are unnecessary in Randland. Just because we don't see worship going on very often doesn't mean it's not being done.
Scratch a Randlander, and you'll find a quite religious person 9 times out of 10, would be my guess. There just isn't quite the need to formalize it the way we do, except on occasions which, by their nature, are already formal... i.e. funerals, weddings, harvest, etc. Just my humble opinion.
Mark Looi: The Forsaken were 13 of the most powerful Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends. They went over to the Dark One's side during the War of the Shadow. Legend has it that they were sealed with the Dark One when the Dark One's prison was re-sealed.
Aginor (M): killed at the Eye of the World (by drawing too much of the One Power) [TEotW: 51, 756-9, Against the Shadow, 634-5]
Asmodean (M): real name: Joar Addam Nesossin, aka: Jasin Natael. captured by Rand and shielded by Lanfear at Rhuidean [TSR: 58, 973-8, The Traps of Rhuidean, 674-7] Toast at the end of TFoH...Twice!
Balthamel (M): killed by the Green Man at the Eye of the World [TEotW: 50, 751-2, Meetings at the Eye, 630-1]
Be'lal (M): aka High Lord Samon of Tear, balefired by Moiraine in the Stone of Tear [TDR: 55, 651-2, What is Written in Prophecy, 557]
Demandred (M): believed to dislike Rand/LTT intensely. [TSR: 58, 975, The Traps of Rhuidean, 677] Reasons unknown but not as well based as Sammael's. [TFoH: Prologue, The First Sparks Fall, 29]. Whereabouts unknown.
Graendal (F): known to currently have a long string of young men and women. In the habit of taking aristocrats and making them serve in some demeaning aspect, using enough compulsion to fry their brains to make them useless. Though a conservative player for all that. In a position of power somewhere, maybe Seanchan. Other suggestions are Shara, Amadicia, and Shienar (despite architectural evidence to the contrary.)
Ishamael (M): real name: Elan Morin Tedronai, aka Ba'alzamon. probably killed by Rand in Tear [TDR: 55, 666, What is Written in Prophecy, 570]
Lanfear (F): real name: Mierin [TSR: 58, 973, The Traps of Rhuidean, 676] aka: Selene. former lover of LTT (Rand). May be toast or in Aelfland.
Mesaana (F): nothing is known
Moghedien (F): captured by Nynaeve in Tanchico, but escaped [TSR: 54, 909-13, Into the Palace, 631-3] believed to be the strongest Forsaken in T'A'R [TSR: 52, 864, Need, 599] Captured by Nynaeve again in T'A'R in TFoH, forced to drink forkroot tea there. Known to be in Salidar, where Nynaeve is going to try to track her down. [TFoH: 55, The Threads Burn, 674-5]
Rahvin (M): aka: Lord Gaebril, was active in Caemlyn [TDR: 46, 534-40, A Message Out of the Shadow, 452-7] Is now toast by Rand. [TFoH: 55, The Threads burn, 672]
Sammael (M): real name: Tel Janin Aellinsar [TFoH: 45, After the Storm, 516] aka: Lord Brend of Illian [TDR: 44, 508-9, Hunted, 429-30] Was given scar by LTT. Hates Rand. Wanted always to be taller. [TFoH: Prologue,The First Sparks Fall, 29]
Semiraghe (F) Has a penchant for gruesome torture. Whereabouts unknown.
By Emma Pease
2 of each Ajah except red (1) for a total of 13. Still unknown are the 1 gray, 2 blues, 1 yellow. ?? means either former Ajah or country unknown
NAME AJAH ORIGIN COMMENT ============================================================================== Liandrin red Tarabon leader Joiya Byir white ?? eldest and dead at Tear Rianna Andormeran white Kandor white streak in hair Marillin Gemalphin brown ?? likes cats Eldrith Jhondar brown ?? arranges for cats to go away Jeaine Caide green Arad Doman Asne Zeramene green Saldaea Chesmal Emry yellow Ghealdan (one of the best healers known) Temaile Kinderode gray Cairhien blue eyes,dark hair,vulpine,cruel Amico Nagoyin ?? ?? youngest and dead at Tear Berylla Naron ?? ?? lean, manipulative Falion Bhoda ?? ?? long-faced Ispan Shefar ?? Tarabon dark-haired
consists (to start with) of 4 reds, no blues, 1 each of yellow, green, and brown, 2 or 3 each of gray and white. [not sure whether she is including herself and Alviarin in the count]:
Elaida, Amyrlin Seat (red)
Alviarin, Keeper (white, Black)
Teslyn, red, Illianer
Shemerin, yellow (to be "arrested and reduced to Accepted", according to paper's in Elaida's study [TFoH: 49, To Boannda, 581])
Sheriam, leader, blue
Siuan Sanche, formerly blue, Tear, Amyrlin Seat, Warder Alric (dead,
TSR), stilled (TSR), at Salidar (TFoH)
Leane Sharif, blue, Arad Doman, Keeper of the Chronicles, Warder unknown, stilled (TSR), at Salidar (TFoH)
Moiraine Damodred, blue, Cairhien, vanished(TFoH), Warder (was) Lan Aeldene, blue, heads the Blue Ajah's eyes and ears network, missing in TFoH.
Memara, red, sent to Saldaea by Elaida's council
Verin Mathwin, brown, very old, Warder Tomas, in Two Rivers (TFoH)
Andeleas, brown, very old lives in Arafel with her sister, Vandene, Warder Jaem?
Takima, brown, teaches history
Phaedrine, brown, at Salidar
Brendas, white, part of the group that healed Mat
Alanna Mosvani, green, Arafel, same age as Sheriam, Warder Ihvon
Vandene, green, very old lives in Arafel with her sister, Andeleas, Warder Jaem?
Myrelle, green, on the council ruling at Salidar (TFoH),
Warders are Nuhel Dromand (Illian), Croi Makin (Andor), Avar Hachimi. Rumored to have Married all three of her Warders against custom. New Warder--Lan
Kiruna Nachiman, green, Arafel, rumored to be the sister of the king of Arafel. At Salidar, Sent to the waste to find Rand
Bera Harkin, green, at Salidar, Sent to the waste to find Rand
Ryma, yellow, caught by the Seanchan
Another slender yellow was part of the group that went to Fal Dara.
Ananda, yellow, Min sees her dying
Edesina, yellow, slender, Min sees a silver collar around her that shatters
Therva Maresis, yellow, slender, at Salidar
Nisao Dachen, yellow, short
Dagdara Finchey, yellow, tall, wide, grey haired, very skilled healer
Narenwin Barda, yellow, heads yellow ears and eyes network
Sierin Vayu, gray, Amyrlin before Siuan, dead
Marras, unknown, probably in charge of the gardens since Faolain was
sent to her to do some gardening.
Silviana, mistress of novices under Elaida (TFoH)
Saroiya, mentioned as an Aes Sedai that someone played a trick on some 20 plus years ago.
Gitara Moroso--She had the Foretelling. She told Tigraine to join the Maidens of the Spear, and she died informing the Amyrlin before Sierin Vayu, Siuan Sanche, and Moiraine Damodred that the Dragon was Reborn.
Pedra, Irella, Faolain Orande (at Salidar), Theodrin (at Salidar), Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Emara (either novice or accepted, at Salidar), Verine (dead TFoH [killed by Fain])
Sahra (dead TSR), Else (no longer), Tabiya (at Salidar)
Sharina (mentioned to Nynaeve in the ter'angreal) Beldeine, green, Keeper to Egwene inside the ter'angreal Gyldan, black, seen by Egwene in the ter'angreal
SURVEY SAYS: Are the following Black Ajah?? first survey sec. survey Yes No Maybe Yes - Moiraine 00 30 04 - - Verin 09 21 04 5 - Alanna 10 16 08 30 - Anaiya 05 16 13 21 - Elaida 07 24 03 - - Alviarin 11 09 14 - - Danelle 10 12 12 18 - Sheriam 08 20 06 14 - Carlinya - - - 28
The pro- Lanfear case is made by Ruchira Datta, and some random net.opinions. The anti-Lanfear lobby is led by Pam Korda, but also holds some net.opinion.
Lanfear presents a bit of an enigma. Many of her actions have led some people to believe that she is not 100% Evil. The argument is that she &Beidomon drilled the Bore into the DO's prison by accident, and only became Forsaken after that either due to the DO's direct action, or out of pride. Moreover, everyone would link her with all the DO's ravages that followed, thinking she released him on purpose, no matter what she did. Being an extremely proud person, it would be hard for her to admit that she had just made a colossal mistake.
Evidence: In the "Eyes of Charn" sequence, Charn perceives Mierin as a good person, and maintains this belief even after she became Lanfear. Up to TFoH (see refutation), it can be claimed that she hadn't done any inarguably evil acts. She has been deceptive - but what would one expect from an Aes Sedai? She is jealous and possessive of Rand - but note that she had not done anything to harm her competition, which would probably be very easy for her to do. (She met Egwene in Tel'aran'rhiod, if I recall correctly, but anyway Egwene had been eliminated from the category of "competition" by this time.)
She told Ishamael in TDR that she was loyal to the Dark One and no other. But in TSR, she suggested to Rand that they supplant the DO together. As for the scene at the end of TFoH, she was insane and not responsible for her actions. (She dislikes being called "Mierin" in the extreme. This could be taken several ways.
One way to take it is that she wants her former self to be disassociated from her current evil ways - she does not want to be reminded of what she once was, it is too painful.)
Refutation: I have always believed that Lanfear was evil, starting way back when we first meet her as Selene in TGH. She made my skin crawl. LTT, an honest man, even the Forsaken admit, said that Lanfear, even when she was Mierin, loved power more than anything else. What is the DO but the ultimate temptation of power?
All of her actions in "helping" Rand have not been to further his cause against the DO, but to gain his trust and lust, so that she could control him. She does not love Rand/LTT; she wants him to be her obedient lap-dog, and to serve him up on a platter to the DO, so that she can be the most powerful of his servants. She would supplant the DO and the Creator in a second if she could, and then be disappointed that she wasn't powerful enough.
Having deceived Rand and all you r.a.sf.w-jordanites for so long, it would have been simple for her to deceive Charn, a follower of the Way of the Leaf. (It is obvious from looking at the Tinkers and the Ancient Aiel that Leafers cannot believe that the world is a Bad Place with Bad People in it.)
But anyway, evidence in TFoH closes the case for good. I do not refer to the skinning of Kadere, torturing of Egwene & Aviendha, killing of many, and attempted killing of Rand scene, although that provides plenty of evidence in itself, insanity or no. I refer to Moiraine's vision in the Rings of Rhuidean. [TFoH: 53, Fading Words, 637]
If Moiraine had not jumped Lanfear, and let her have her way, Rand would be dead, or Lanfear's love-slave, with the crippled mind of LTT. These were Lanfear's plans. They are not the plans of a good person. Oh, and if you need further proof, recall the ecstasy with which she describes bathing in the DO's presence at Shayol Ghul.
by Erica Sadun and Sean Hillyard
Strange tricksy critters who live in other dimensions. They are also known as the Snakes and Foxes for their appearances and have long-standing tricksy relationships with humans: giving gifts and answers... at a price.
[TSR: 28, 462, To the Tower of Ghenjei, 323] Birgitte arrives to chat up Perrin and talks about the Tower of Ghenjei and the game of Snakes and Foxes. "...there's no way to win." "Except to break the rules," she said. "'Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to daze, iron to bind.'" Poor Mat should have known about these rules, but he's tricky and he cheats. Notice that every time Mat is using his "luck", he seems to be humming. This may be related.
We know that The tower of Ghenjei is a route to the realms of the Aelfinn & Eelfinn. We also know that the Seanchan, the offspring of the "hammer" (Paendrag) hold their symbols to be the tower and the raven. And wouldn't you just know, Mat who is due to marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons, the heir to the court of Seanchan and who is already mixed up with the snakes and foxes just happens to have a magic spear with ravens on it. In fact, if you re-regard the inscription on the spear, it just may have to do with the Seanchan's bargain and not that of Mat.
"Thus is our treaty written; thus is agreement made. Thought is the arrow of time; memory never fades. What was asked is given. The price is paid."[TSR: 26, 439, The Dedicated, 307]
Remember also, that those marked with the raven are property of the court of the Seanchan empress. The other object given to Mat was the foxhead. And its eye is the symbol of the Aes Sedai. [TSR: 37, 606, Imre Stand, 426] Boy, this gets complicated, doesn't it? When Mat arrives in the Rhuidean door (foxes), he is greeted and asked about the "old treaty".
The snake people back at Tear were very insistent that he show up at Rhuidean - insistent enough to answer a whole lot of extra questions. Once he gets there, he's given an object which directly mentions something about the treaty.
There seems to be some kind of agreement concerning the use of the door. Anyone may enter who does not bring a way to make light, iron or instruments of music. The snakes will then answer three questions. What do they get out of it? According to Moiraine:
Sensations, emotions, experiences. They rummage through them; you can feel them doing it, making your skin crawl. Perhaps they feed on them in some manners. The Aes Sedai who studied this ter'angreal spoke of a strong desire to bathe afterward.
In addition, the presence of two ta'veren seemed about to shake down the whole place.
The foxes also speak of a treaty in using the doorway. Again, no iron or musical instruments, or ways to make light. Again, there is the prickling of the skin as memories are rummaged through. However, for the foxes this does not seem to be payment enough for their services. Apparently a price has to be negotiated before agreements are made.
Mat lucks out (of course) and asks for a way out as one of his agreements (It seems extremely likely that he would still be there without that), but they still exact a price out of him, and from what we can infer of it, it was not pleasant.
Aludra: I have finally figured out Aludra's entire raison d'etre: the matches. Now how can Mat/Thom get over to Nynaeve to get some matches before he heads off to A/Eelfland?
There could be some major plot development coming up, with regards to Saldaea. We have been getting hints for five books now. In TEotW, in Baerlon, there are rumors about trouble up in Saldaea. But they say, oh--that's the borderlands-- there is always trouble in the borderlands. When we first meet Bayle Domon, he is running from Trollocs and Saldaea [TEotW: 20, 312, Dust on the Wind, 262-3].
Then again in TGH and TDR Saldaea is mentioned that something is going on there. Plus that is where Mazrim Taim was operating...Then in TSR, someone in a tavern in Tear says something like Taim was so powerful when he fought the Lord of Bashere's army. Then SS thinks that with all the trouble there, Tenobia might be pushed off the throne--Tenobia is Faile's cousin.
And finally, at the end of TFoH, Bashere shows up in Caemlyn and makes an agreement for Saldaea's support of the Dragon Reborn. (Furthermore, the BA had a plan to release Taim, and make him commit atrocities under the name of the Dragon Reborn. I doubt this plan will come to much now, since Bashere has met the real Dragon, but it could still come to something.)
Survey says: Will Faile be the Queen of Saldaea? Yes:58, No: 24
by Don Harlow, Joe Shaw, somebody else
It may be that Mat was Aemon of Manetheren, although there is little direct proof. It is certain that, in all his lives, he was a military genius.
There has been a lot of speculation that Mat is the reincarnation of an ancient king of Manetheren. It seems to me fairly evident that Mat is the reincarnation of a fairly large number of personalities (I would say "different" personalities, except I suspect that they were all fairly similar). This is evidenced by Mat's pseudo-memories that emerge when Jasin Natael is singing a song about a battle at a river and how the enemy of Manetheren had mercy on the defeated Manetherenites, because they were so brave, etc.
Mat remembers himself, the king's advisor, being killed by that foe's treachery; and then he remembers himself, somebody else, seeing that foe, older and grayer, being killed in another battle somewhere else. [TSR: 37, 610-1, Imre Stand, 424-5]
Additionally, he forms the Band of the Red Hand near the end of TFoH, which was supposedly a band of heroes who went down defending Aemon himself.This looks like another marker, though there's nothing directly of Aemon's memories that Mat has. TFoH also gives details on the span of his memories, from about four or five hundred years before the Trolloc wars and nothing after Artur Hawkwing. What this signifies is another question entirely.
It's clear that Mat was not King of Manetheren in his first memory, at least. I agree that Mat is remembering several lives. IMHO, Mat is one of the Heroes that the Pattern spins out every so often, and he is remembering his previous incarnations. Mat was just a brilliant military advisor for the Manetheren kings, not the King.
Moiraine tells Egwene: "ysl/Now you are behaving like a foolish village girl. Most who come to Tar Valon must study for months before they can do what you just did. You may go far. Perhaps even the Amyrlin Seat, one day, if you study hard and work hard./"
"Aemon's warcry, she said - right? Maybe you're Aemon come back again."
Mat says: "You put this Aiel nonsense in his head, on top of what's already there, and the light knows what we'll have. An Aiel lord maybe."
Nynaeve, just before entering the first arch a Novice must pass through to become an Accepted: "Vaguely, Nynaeve thought about her nervousness concerning spiders" Moghedien is also known as 'the Spider'.
Perrin, looking at Ingtar: "Sometimes, to Perrin's eyes, the crescent crest on the Shienaran's helmet looked like a Trolloc's horns."
Ingtar is revealed at the end of TGH to be a Darkfriend seeking to walk in the Light (he sought the Horn for his personal salvation).
"I am not Aiel, Lord Barthanes, and I am not of the [Andor] royal line, either." (Rand to Lord Barthanes, at Barthanes' manor)
I was re-reading the part in TSR where Ny talks to Birgitte and Cain is around. He reminds Birgitte how mad Spider was when she found out Birgitte would fight on the side of LTT. She told Birgitte then something like "I will make you weep alone for as long as the wheel turns". Birgitte says that Spider said it as just a fact that had not happened yet. We know in TFoH that Spider makes good on this threat, but un-binding her to the Wheel.
At one point, early in the book, Ny wishes she could have SS alone for just 5 minutes when SS could not channel - she gets her wish with her little scuffle in Tel'aran'rhiod.
Elayne told Egwene in T'A'R' : "Egwene, you will be Amyrlin when I am Queen of Andor!"
All the Forsaken seem to think that Ba'alzamon was Ishamael . e.g. see Mog's thoughts in [TSR: 46, 759-60, Veils, 526].
[TDR: 21, 237, A World of Dreams, 187] Verin reads a scrap of paper to Egwene when giving her the twisted stone ter'angreal. "Heart of the Dark. Ba'alzamon. Name hidden within name shrouded by name. Secret buried within secret cloaked by secret. Betrayer of Hope. Ishamael betrays all hope. Truth burns and sears. Hope fails before truth. A lie is our shield. Who can stand against the Heart of the Dark? Who can face the Betrayer of Hope? Soul of shadow, Soul of the Shadow, he is -"
[TDR: 56, 672-3, People of the Dragon, 575-6], Eg, Ny, Mat, El and Moiraine are discussing that Rand could not have killed the Dark One himself because a _man's_ body was left. They speculate that Ba'alzamon was Ishamael.
[TEotW: 14, 204-5, The Stag and Lion, 171]: Ba'alzamon tells Rand: "I stood at Lews Therin Kinslayer's shoulder when he did the deed that named him. It was I who told him to kill his wife, and his children, and all his blood, and every living person who loved him or whom he loved. It was I who gave him the moment of sanity to know what he had done."
Lanfear makes some comment that "Ishamael thinks he controls events, but I do, really" or something like that. The only other forsaken taking an active hand in events is Ba'alzamon. the rest are either still bound, or are skulking around in various kingdoms.
[TSR: Glossary, 987, entry "Ba'alzamon", 686] "In the Trolloc tongue, 'Heart of the Dark.' Believed by most, erroneously, to be the Trolloc Name for the Dark One."
[TSR: 46, Veils, 526] Moghedien says: The other
We assume that they will be used on a faux dragon because the real one isn't available.
Luke Mankin tells us more about the bracelets: I think that the collar and bracelets are not all one piece, and that they will enable a women to control a male channeler for a distance! Here are all the places where it is physically described that I could find. Notice that they never mention a -leash-!
[TSR: 55, 920, Into the Deep, 638]: "Egeanin touched the collar, pushed the bracelets away from the collar. If she felt the emotions trapped in them ... ability to channel. `It is not a'dam,` the Seanchan woman said. `That is made of a silvery metal, and all of one piece.`"
[TSR: 52, 866, Need, 600] "...-a necklace and two bracelets of jointed black metal-..."
[TSR: 54, 905, Into the Palace, 628] "...dull black collar and bracelets... ...wide jointed collar..."
Since we assume that the Seanchan will get the collars, what will they do with their male channeler? OR, will the BA get the collar and bracelets through the Darkfriend connection? Wouldn't the best means of destroying them be separating them and throwing them in say the sea, a volcano, and such?
Jeff R. brings to us The Songs of the Wheel of Time:
Songs connected with = have the same tune, but different lyrics and or names in different areas.
A question mark suffix means that no title is actually given; the title is inferred from the lyrics.
There are two point in the story where Mat could be considered to have died: when he was hung from the tree in Rhuidean, and when he got hit by lightning in the raid on Caemlyn in TFOH. So, is he still linked to the horn?
Firstly, in Tear, [TSR: 15, 253, Into the Doorway, 177]
"Abruptly, a dozen yellow-clad men were around Mat, seeming to
appear out of the air, trying to pull him toward the door. He
fought with fists, elbows, knees. 'What fate? Burn your hearts,
what fate?' It was the room itself that pealed, the walls and
floor quivering, nearly taking Mat and his attackers off their
"The three were on their feet atop the pedestals, and he could not tell which shrieked which answer."
"'To marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons!'"
"'To die, and live again, and live once more a part of what was!'"
"'To give up half the light of the world to save the world!'"
Secondly, in Rhuidean, [TSR: 26, 437-8, The Dedicated, 306-7]
"Letting sword and Power go, he ripped the rope away from Mat's
neck and pressed an ear to his friend's chest. Nothing.
Desperately, he tore open Mat's coat and shirt, breaking the
leather cord that help a silver medallion on Mat's chest. He
tossed the medallion aside, listened again. Nothing. No
heartbeat. Dead. No! He'd be all right if I hadn't let him
follow me here. I can't let him be dead!"
"As hard as he could he pounded his fist against Mat's chest, listened. Nothing. Again he hammered, listened. Yes. There. A faint heartbeat. It was. So faint, so slow. And slowing. But Mat was still alive despite the heavy purple welt around his neck. He might yet be kept alive."
"Filling his lungs, Rand scrambled around to breathe into Mat's mouth as strongly as he could. Again. Again..."
If that wasn't a performance of CPR and mouth to mouth on a dead man, I don't know what it is. (Although in mouth to mouth, aren't you supposed to suck the CO2 out and let the lung and diaphragm use the resultant low pressure zone to automatically reinflate the lungs with fresh air? Still, a quibble.) He had no heartbeat! He wasn't breathing! We was clinically dead. On that evidence, I really don't see how anyone can doubt, at the very least, that Mat actually died. I do grant that we can disagree and quibble over the binding of the Horn, but that's a different matter.
And on that note, Judy is correct-- the phrasing that the Amyrlin used at any rate was "So long as you live." I just wonder if anyone ever actually linked themselves to the Horn before, then died and then came back to life. In other words, is their knowledge absolute in this matter, or is this just a turn of a phrase?
Survey says: Is Mat still linked to the Horn? Yes: 55, No: 26.
Serpent and Wheel: Aes Sedai, Wheel of Time, Ta'veren
Ravens: Darkfriends, other minions of the DO
Dragon's Fang: Darkfriends, other minions of the DO, or Rand
Harp: Thom Merrilin
Leafless tree at night: Traveling through woods?
Heronmark sword hilt: Rand
Two leaves from the Tree of Life and Moiraine's staff: Moiraine (TEOTW only)
Flame of Tar Valon: Aes Sedai, Saidar
LeavesA Leaf:/ Ogier, Loial, Waygates, Nynaeve, Wise Women, Tinkers
Horned skull, trident and a paw: Trollocs
Wolf: Wolfbrothers, Perrin
Lion Rampant: Andor, Elayne.
Gnarled, Withered Tree: The Blight
Ruby-Hilted Dagger: Shadar Logoth Dagger, Mat, Padan Fain.
Horn: The Horn of Valere
Portal Stone: Portal Stone
Rising Sun: Cairhien
Insect-Like, Horned Helmet: Seanchan
Tree with lots of leaves: stedding, Ogiers
Female silhouettes (One Black, One White): Black Ajah, the hunt for them
Dice (FIVE): Mat "(Note the five sixes..Yahtzee!!)" - Joe Shaw
Crescent moon and stars: Lanfear, Daughter of the Night. This one is really note worthy. This icon appears when we meet the peddlers (aka Lanfear and Asmodean) in the waste. Had I realized it was Lanfear's icon, I would have realized then that one of them was Lanfear disguised. Also the same when she appears to the girls as Else. - Judy G.
Dream Ring: Tel'aran'rhiod
Waves: A journey over water
Dragon: Rand "Is it just me, or does this 'dragon' look like a jolly, happy-go-lucky salamander?" - Joe Shaw (it's you, Joe - Pam)
8-pointed star and birds: Sea folk
Two spears & a shield: Aiel
Bull: Gareth Byrne
Elephant: Valen Luca's traveling menagerie
Full Aes Sedai symbol of old: Rand, the Dragon Reborn "under this sign will he conquer"
Just another thought while re-reading. Our favorite heros all seem to have unusual memories available to them. Meaning :
Windsor Williams reports:
Basically, I'm wondering about the role of the Ogier in pre-Breaking society. From what we know in general, the stedding did exist during the period, but the Ogier were not bound to them by the Longing as they are at the time of the series. So it seems reasonable to assume that they were fairly common everywhere, although most common in and around the stedding.
We know they were involved with the seed singing (as per the "through the eyes of Coumin" scene [TSR: 26, 432-3, The Dedicated, 302-5]), but what other roles did they have? Some clues exist:
Ogier soldiers - also from the Coumin sequence, right at the beginning [TSR: 26, 431, The Dedicated, 302] "He could see the next field, lined the same way, beyond the soldiers with their shocklances sitting atop armored jo-cars. A hoverfly buzzed overhead in its patrol, a deadly black metal wasp containing two men. He was sixteen, and the women had decided his voice was finally deep enough to join in the seed singing."
"The soldiers fascinated him, men and Ogier, the way a colorful poisonous snake might. They _killed_."
The "men and Ogier" phrase seems to imply that there were Ogier soldiers as well as humans. (At least, it does to me.)
Ogier as police or enforcers - again, from the Coumin sequence
[TSR: 26, 434, The Dedicated, 304]
"Abruptly something struck Coumin in the mouth and his legs buckled; he
was pushing himself to his knees before he realized he was down. A hand
put to his mouth came away bloody. He looked up to find an angry-faced
townsman standing over him, nursing a fist. 'Why did you do that?' he
"The townsman spat at him. 'The Forsaken are dead. Dead, do you hear? Lanfear will not protect you anymore. We will root out all of you who served the Forsaken while pretending to be on our side, and treat the lot of you as we treated that crazy old man.'"
"A woman was tugging at the man's arm. 'Come away, Toma. Come away, and hold your foolish tongue! Do you want the Ogier to come for you?' Suddenly wary, the man let her pull him away into the crowd."
"Do you want the Ogier to come for you?"
and the man's response argue that the Ogier were enforcers of peace/police of some sort, and effective ones as well. I'm guessing that they would come for him for the killing of Charn ("that crazy old man"), but maybe it's his statements, instead?
I hadn't thought of Ogier in terms of soldiers or police before, but these passages caught my eye while re-reading the series. We've been told at one point or another that old tales refer to Ogier as bad opponents, who rarely get angry but are very dangerous when they do. (I can't recall the exact place...something about Perrin and some line about Ogier and mountains. Anyone else recall where this is?)
We've seen Loial play an important role a couple of times already (knowing the Ways, closing the Waygate in the Two Rivers), but I'm starting to think we may see quite a bit more of the Ogier before the series ends.
Padan Fain was a Lugard peddler, who moonlighted as a Friend of the Dark. When it came time for the Dragon to be reborn, Fain was taken to Shayol Ghul and made into the Dark One's Hound, to search out TDR. Followed the boys to Shadar Logoth and had a run-in with Mordeth. Mordeth tried to devour Fain's soul, but couldn't, because of the hold the DO had on him. so, Fain became half MOrdeth, half minion of the DO. This is basically what the books tell us.
Roy Navarre, and the late Tony Z (no he's not dead, just gone from the Net), came up with a theory that Fain is actually the avatar of the DO. Roy says: First, if you check the glossary, you will see that the DO is described as the source of all evil. Hence Mashadar must flow from the DO or the glossary is wrong. (We had pages and pages of discussion on this in the past). Next, Myself and Tony Z, who doesn't seem to be around anymore presented detailed evidence suggesting that Fain is the avatar of the DO. With each broken seal, Fain gets stronger. Thus, the DO has been in our midst all this time but we just didn't know it. At first only a trace of him in Fain, but growing stronger and stronger until now his presence in Fain seems unmistakable.
Eric Ebinger counters:
Fain no longer exists. Padan Fain was summoned to Shayol Ghul, was broken and reformed into a bloodhound for the DO, as part of which he was imprinted by the DO. This happened twice at Shayol Ghul and once in a dream. Padan Fain/DO bloodhound went to Shadar Logoth and fell prey to Mordeth. Normally, Mordeth would just destroy the existing "soul/personality", but Padan Fain,s having been "remade" by the DO seems to have changed things sufficiently so that there was a slow gradual merging of all of the different personalities (Fain/Mordeth/DO's imprint). The most accurate term for the combination is the name that he took: Ordeith. Over time, the Mordeth portion has gained more and more control over the gestalt.
The DO's imprint has given Ordeith the unreasoning hatred of Rand, Perrin, and Mat. There doesn't seem to be much of anything of Padan Fain left. As the Mordeth fragment has gained more complete control of the gestalt, Ordeith has increased in power. The seeming relationship between the breaking of the Seals and Ordeith's power is due only to the fact that as time passes Ordeith gets stronger and as time passes the Seals break. The same relationship is evident with Rand, Perrin, Mat, Elayne, Egwene, Aviendha and Nynaeve.
Survey Says: Is Fain the DO? Yes: 01, No: 81. You are all alone, Roy!
When we last saw Fain, he was in the White Tower, getting his dagger, and planting seeds of suspicion & hatred, as he is wont to do. He then took off for parts unknown. What is he up to now? John Ireland suggests, "Fain is on his way to recruit some troops. I think the Blight has been so quiet this year because they haven't had a leader...I think Fain and the dagger would make a dandy one." It has also been suggested that Fain is going to hook up with the retreating force of Couladin's renegade Aiel.
Jain seems to have a cult following among the Jordanites on
"Jain lives!" they proclaim. So, as promised, here is a list of all
the suspects in "who is Jain in disguise" contest.
I cannot think of any more, offhand, although I know there many more.
Dead: 30 No one we know: 6 No one important: 12 Elyas Machera: 8 with Graendal: 11 Jain Farstrider: 8
by Joe Shaw
[TDR: 27, 316-9, Tel'aran'rhiod, 257-9] Most likely, Lanfear , it was part of her plot to get Rand and/or Mat to go to Tear. Egwene and Nynaeve were to be bait to draw him there, only Rand was already going there to stop their attacks through his dreams. The girls were probably just a backup in case he resisted the dreams or learned to shield them on his own. Egwene and Nynaeve were to be Be'lal and Ish.s bait to draw Rand, while Liandrin and Co. were the bait to draw draw Egwene and Nynaeve. See Perrin's dream about the trap in [TDR: 43, 504, Shadowbrothers, 426] (see section 7.6) which matches Egwene's dreams about "puppets" in [TDR: 37, 423, Fires in Cairhien, 352-3] (see section 7.1). Lanfear was playing along with Ish, but working to her own designs.
There's no doubt (in my mind) that Silvie was Lanfear. And the reason for ripping off the ring ter'angreal to throw her out of T'A'R was just her cruel streak; Lanfear knew she was a dream since she had been haunting the White Tower as Else, and just wanted Egwene to go to the Heart of the Stone in T'A'R to make sure the girls decided to go there. Once she had accomplished that, why not send her out the hard way? After all, Lanfear claimed T'A'R as her domain (even though Mog. was stronger there), so there was no need for Egwene to learn too much about "her domain". Plus, her precious LTT reborn had once loved this girl; I'm sure she couldn't resist inflicting a little pain on her, especially since the fact that Eg was bait to draw Rand to Tear meant that he still cared about her. That must have drove Lanfear bonkers.
by Bill Garrett
I see two schools of thought on this. The first suggests that the Ajahs were formed after the Breaking. Perhaps the AS argued about what was most important... a few said, "we must find and stop all the male channelers who have gone mad!" while others said, "we must fight the Shadowspawn and stay ready to fight them should they return." Others might have placed importance on healing the wounded and stopping the ravage of disease. Then some said, "We must manipulate the governments of the people to make sure they are always ready." A few bookish sorts might have thought it was more important to preserve old knowledge to keep it from getting lost. "What will happen in troubles to come if our descendants forget even the meager things we've learned so far?"
The second school suggests that Ajahs existed before the Breaking, but some were changed due to it. For example, the Blue, White, Gray, and Yellow Ajahs probably all existed before the Breaking. Their functions were useful in the Age of Legends, just as they are now.
The Brown may have been responsible for education for everyone -- they may have been the instructors in universities -- but as all AS were distrusted (?) at the time of the Breaking, they probably withdrew to their own studies.
The Red may have served to find those with the spark or the ability to learn, and educate them in the use of the Power. When it became imperative to stop/prevent male channelers due to the Madness, this Ajah would have been the most likely to do so. It's only a short change from finding (educating) channelers to help them, to finding (stilling/killing) them to help everyone else.
The Green might have been created because of the War of the Power, or it might have had some other purpose beforehand. Perhaps it dealt with human affairs, and when the most important human affair was fighting for the survival of the human race, they became what was needed most - military leaders.
[TFoH: 34, A Silver Arrow, 390] Nynaeve and Birgitte were in T'A'R eavesdropping on the Forsaken Conference. Third Paragraph, Rahvin said, "He [Rand] will concentrate on you [Sammael], ... If need be, one close to him will die, plainly at your order. He will come for you. And while he is fixed on you alone, the three of us, linked, will take him. What has changed to alter any of that?"
So, It seems Melindhra was ordered to kill Mat with a golden bee dagger if the need arose. Mat let slipped to her that Rand's going to Caemlyn, instead of "concentrating of Sammael", and she attacked Mat right away.
I thought this was a dead issue, but apparently it is not. sigh. Okay, why would anybody think Moiraine was BA? well, during TGH, RJ seems to be putting down clues in that direction. namely, she was missing during the time of the DS. Also, she was wearing her ring on a different finger than she had before (oh no! not that!!!!). Well, this was all a red herring, because since then, we have been privy to Moiraine's thoughts, which show that she walks in the light. Okay, maybe she has multiple personalities, but I doubt it.
How could Logain 's taking of Callandor ungentle him? Matthew Hunter explains this net.theory:
Easy--stilling blocks a channeler from the One Power. Whenever Jordan speaks of the OP and angreals, he describes the channeler as drawing the OP _through_ the angreal. Possibly, someone who can channel but cannot touch the OP could still channel, if they can get the OP from somewhere else; they are a mage without a power source, in effect. Callandor, or any other angreal, would provide the power... which may explain why the female Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends didn't simply sneak up and still all the male Aes Sedai.
In TFoH, we also see Nynaeve studying stilling, to discover if it can be Healed. Maybe she will discover how to un-still/gentle people, and Siuan Sanche, Leane, and Logain will get the Power back?
Survey Says: Will Logain get un-gentled? Yes: 53 No: 28
Yet another net.theory that won't die. There is speculation that Egwene will marry Galad . Why?
Here are the reasons why some people think Thom can channel:
Bill Garrett points out that it is possible that, originally, Jordan intended to make Thom a channeler (hence the Whitebridge scene), but changed his mind.
Skimming requires knowledge of destination and Traveling requires origin [TFoH: 6, Gateways, 121]. For example, Aviendha Travels to Seanchan which she obviously doesn't know a thing about, but she knew the bathroom real well.
Skimming is like getting somewhere by placing yourself on a highway system. You can take as many people as you can fit in your vehicle, and as long as you know where you are going you can get there. Thus you need to know where your destination well in order to get there.
Traveling is like placing a phone call to somewhere and shifting yourself through the phone lines. Thus if you know how to use a telephone (ie you have knowledge of the place that you are at) you can place a random phone call and hook up with some place that you have never been (what Aviendha did) but if you know the number, you can call wherever you want, and go someplace specific.
In [TGH: 40, 573, Damane, 484], Egwene's sul'dam describes how the Empress will sometimes make a man wear the bracelet of the a'dam. Sometimes nothing happens, and sometimes "both die, screaming." We see something similar happen in [TFoH: 32, A Short Spear, 370] when Rand tries to free the damane in Seanchan. What's happening here? Well, it seems as if the men who are affected by the a'dam are those who can channel, or who have the ability to learn. According to Elayne's study of the a'dam, it works by creating an uneven link between channelers, in which the bracelet holder has complete control. So possible explanations for the "die screaming" effect are:
There are several characters who we know cannot be Darkfriends. We know because jordan has shown us their thoughts when they are thinking about their motivations, their opinions towards the Shadow and the DO, or something similarly indicative. These people are:
Rand, Mat, Perrin, Moiraine, Egwene, Nynaeve, Min, Elayne, Elaida (see Section 1.11), Morgase, Thom, Egeanin, Bayle Domon, Pedron Niall, Dain and Geofram Bornhald, Siuan Sanche.
When Rand battles the male Forsaken , he sees black threads, wires, or cords running off from them. This is seen when Rand battles Ishy in [TEotW: 51, 759-62, Against the Shadow, 637-40], and Asmodean in [TSR: 58, The Traps of Rhuidean, 671-675]. So what's the deal with these strings?
The thick black threads are the Forsaken's connection to the DO. The connection with the DO is what keeps the male Forsaken from falling prey to the madness taint of saidin (see Asmodean's statements to Rand in TSR after his black "thread" was severed). Rand's thread in TEotW was silver and thinner because it was from that pure pool of saidin that was the Eye of the World.
We've never seen the threads on a female Forsaken, so it is possible that the threads are themselves the protection from the taint. Perhaps they act as a kind of filter on saidin, or a conduit through which the DO siphons off the taint when the Forsaken draws upon the Source.
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