From reed at affero.com Mon Jul 1 13:47:57 2002 From: reed at affero.com (Christopher Reed) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] feedback from SVLUG website : links Message-ID: <3D20BFFD.2372D9F@affero.com> Hi. We need your help. Were trying to get the word out about our online service. If you would please link affero to your website it would be greatly appreciated. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me. -Chris ____ Name: Affero Description: Affero enables recognition of valuable online interactions. We provide the means to offer feedback and say "thank you" for support and information provided via ratings and monetary donations to open source projects, causes and non-profit organizations without disrupting the natural dialog in the community. License: Affero GNU Public License http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html Category: Fundraisng, Community, Advocacy website: http://www.affero.com -- Please click here to see what I care about and why I'm doing this for schools. http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=creed&p=schools ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Office: 415 371 9900 http://www.affero.com reed@affero.com reed@christopherreed.com From star at starshine.org Mon Jul 1 22:19:18 2002 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] feedback from SVLUG website : links In-Reply-To: <3D20BFFD.2372D9F@affero.com> References: <3D20BFFD.2372D9F@affero.com> Message-ID: <20020702051918.GC20241@starshine.org> On Mon, Jul 01, 2002 at 01:47:57PM -0700, Christopher Reed wrote: > > Hi. > > We need your help. Were trying to get the word out about our online > service. If you would please link affero to your website it would be > greatly appreciated. > > If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me. > > -Chris > ____ This appears to be more suitable for a freshmeat.net announcement. SVLUG is not a news service. All of the news entries we have are always fetched from elsewhere by fairly automatic scripts. You're welcome to come to our meetings though. . | . Heather Stern --->*<--- Starshine Technical Services ' | ` SVLUG Web Content Coordinator > Name: Affero > > Description: Affero enables recognition of valuable online interactions. > We provide the means to offer feedback and say "thank you" for support > and information provided via ratings and monetary donations to open > source projects, causes and non-profit organizations without disrupting > the natural dialog in the community. > > License: Affero GNU Public License http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html > > Category: Fundraisng, Community, Advocacy > > website: http://www.affero.com > > -- > Please click here to see what I care about and why I'm doing this for > schools. > http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=creed&p=schools > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Office: 415 371 9900 > http://www.affero.com > reed@affero.com > reed@christopherreed.com > > _______________________________________________ > web-team mailing list > web-team@lists.svlug.org > http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/web-team From joyce at TerraLuna.Org Mon Jul 1 23:39:07 2002 From: joyce at TerraLuna.Org (Joyce Cao Traugott) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Web Team Meeting Monday 7/1/2002 Summary References: <3D1E62CC.3BFCF3E6@TerraLuna.Org> <3D1F7437.E2511B09@earthlink.net> <001001c220d4$cb285990$9aeeea0c@frmt1.sfba.home.com> Message-ID: <3D214A8B.251E54A8@TerraLuna.Org> Hi All, Heather, Jim, and I met today at Pedro's. We talked about different areas of the svlug website that need work. Here is the list of things with possible author's names next to them: 1. About SVLUG: Heather/Margaret 2. Sponsor: Joyce 3. Search: Jeff/Jim/Bill 4. Lists: Heather 5. Events: Joyce 6. Projects: Heather 7. News: Bill/Jeff 8. Meetings: Joyce 9. About Linux: Heather 10. Link Farm: Margaret 11. svlug.news.txt: Bill/Jeff 12. Programming: Jeff/Bill This is really a preliminary plan. We need to set another meeting to discuss further about this list. Please let me know when will be the best time to meet. Heather and Jim will be back from a conference next Wednesday, so any time after next Wednesday will be good. Thank you for your interest in supporting svlug. Joyce From jeff at jeffs-place.org Mon Jul 1 23:48:17 2002 From: jeff at jeffs-place.org (Jeff Walter) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: Web Team Meeting Monday 7/1/2002 Summary References: <3D1E62CC.3BFCF3E6@TerraLuna.Org> <3D1F7437.E2511B09@earthlink.net> <001001c220d4$cb285990$9aeeea0c@frmt1.sfba.home.com> <3D214A8B.251E54A8@TerraLuna.Org> Message-ID: <000701c22194$7298fb20$9aeeea0c@frmt1.sfba.home.com> Joyce Cao Traugott wrote: > This is really a preliminary plan. We need to set another meeting to > discuss further about this list. Please let me know when will be the > best time to meet. Heather and Jim will be back from a conference next > Wednesday, so any time after next Wednesday will be good. Hey everyone, I'm free pretty every day, unless I decide to get a job other than do website work. Ahh...the beauty of being out of school for the summer. So let me know when and where and I'll be there. Jeff Walter jeff@jeffs-place.org From Sepp.Stieger at fujitsu-siemens.com Wed Jul 3 07:14:45 2002 From: Sepp.Stieger at fujitsu-siemens.com (Stieger, Sepp) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] feedback from SVLUG website Message-ID: <6D52D4863535D411A1EC009027B6AF8303174DC4@abg0972e.abg.fsc.net> Hi there, is the page below still up to date ?! http://www.svlug.org/installfest/index.shtml The event itself is usually unformatted - no pre-set schedule of activities. When you arrive, check with the Installfest personnel (not the bookshop employees ) avoid the I-880/Brokaw interchange like the plague Greetings from Germany, I visited the Svlug as often I could while I stayed in San Jose from 1999-2001. Sepp -- Sepp Stieger Broadband Solutions Fujitsu Siemens Computers Bgm.-Ulrich-Str. 100 86199 Augsburg Telephone: +49 821 804-4351 Telefax: +49 821 804-84351 Email: sepp.stieger@fujitsu-siemens.com Internet: From joyce at TerraLuna.Org Sat Jul 6 19:58:32 2002 From: joyce at TerraLuna.Org (Joyce Cao Traugott) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] feedback from SVLUG website References: <6D52D4863535D411A1EC009027B6AF8303174DC4@abg0972e.abg.fsc.net> Message-ID: <3D27AE58.2C5B6D8A@TerraLuna.Org> Yes, it is. SVLUG will always welcome you whenever you come back to visit. Joyce "Stieger, Sepp" wrote: > > Hi there, > is the page below still up to date ?! > > http://www.svlug.org/installfest/index.shtml > The event itself is usually unformatted - no pre-set schedule of activities. When you arrive, check with the Installfest personnel (not the bookshop employees ) > avoid the I-880/Brokaw interchange like the plague > > Greetings from Germany, I visited the Svlug as often I could while I stayed in San Jose from 1999-2001. > Sepp > > -- > Sepp Stieger > Broadband Solutions > Fujitsu Siemens Computers > Bgm.-Ulrich-Str. 100 > 86199 Augsburg > > Telephone: +49 821 804-4351 > Telefax: +49 821 804-84351 > Email: sepp.stieger@fujitsu-siemens.com > Internet: > > _______________________________________________ > web-team mailing list > web-team@lists.svlug.org > http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/web-team From marc_news at merlins.org Sun Jul 14 23:36:30 2002 From: marc_news at merlins.org (Marc MERLIN) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] [svlug] Job offers In-Reply-To: <20020715005300.GF10448@ix.netcom.com> References: <20020626123659.GM22551@merlins.org> <20020715005300.GF10448@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <20020715063630.GC10033@merlins.org> On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 05:53:00PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote: > IMO the decision's about 12-18 months later than it should have been, > but better late than never. Frankly, I'm starting to think in terms of > jobs that let me use FS but don't themselves directly concern > technology. Actually, it's also that no one has asked. Quite frankly there were not enough jobs around for recruiters to bother contacting us anymore. Before, we'd get people who still asked quite often, and that stopped a while ago. So yes, we should have changed a while ago, it just didn't happen because no one really asked. > Note that there are still places where the "no job postings" policy is > listed: > > - http://www.svlug.org/policies/list-policy.shtml "No job > postings..." > > - http://www.svlug.org/policies/job-policy.shtml Contradicts this > somewhat. > > I'd suggest: > > Job postings may be made via an SVLUG officer. Do *NOT* post job > offers directly to the SVLUG list. More information at our > job policy. I'm Ccing the web team, who's in charge of that. Thanks for the pointers. Marc -- "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R. Microsoft is to operating systems & security .... .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/ | Finger marc_f@merlins.org for PGP key -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 350 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/web-team/attachments/20020714/afa4dc49/attachment.pgp From bill at wards.net Mon Jul 22 13:38:07 2002 From: bill at wards.net (William R Ward) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Job corner?? Message-ID: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> I think the website needs updating. It talks of a "job corner" after the meetings. In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a "job corner". I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared. With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact with each other. The website alludes to an old system where jobs could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something like that would not be a bad idea. Or, do it the way Bay LISA does, and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their names & contact info and what they do or want. --Bill. -- William R Ward bill@wards.net http://www.wards.net/~bill/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- AMAZING BUT TRUE: There is so much sand in northern Africa that if it were spread out it would completely cover the Sahara Desert! From star at starshine.org Wed Jul 24 14:41:45 2002 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner?? In-Reply-To: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> References: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> Message-ID: <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 01:38:07PM -0700, William R Ward wrote: > > I think the website needs updating. It talks of a "job corner" after > the meetings. In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of > milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a > "job corner". I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared. > > With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to > provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact > with each other. The website alludes to an old system where jobs > could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something > like that would not be a bad idea. We used to, but just can't - there are way too many announcements that result when job seekers and recruiters get the mike, and it was occasionally difficult to get them to stop talking and hand it over to the next one. The result was cutting short of speaker time, when it's the speaker we all came for. > Or, do it the way Bay LISA does, > and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their > names & contact info and what they do or want. The room is too large, has no whiteboard of its own. I can bring a portable whiteboard for the purpose, but with the much larger group of SVLUG, it might take forever or easily overflow. Sadly, it doesn't scale well. Doing something to more formally re-establish the Job Corner might help; I think the main thing that has harmed it is that most of our speakers run closer to lockup-time than we used to, and then Cisco wants us out, so using the inside of the room as some more meeting space for a brief while doesn't work out. :( The idea has been raised a few times of having an svlug-jobs@ the way BayLISA has a baylisa-jobs mailing list. Disadvantages: It's moderated. It's highly attractive to spammers. Recruiters who really recruit, but just can't restrian themselves from posting more than their fair share, need to be slapped (kindly at first), and if they remain annoying, blocked. So it's also a good idea, but it needs an active moderator with time to handle it... who will not disappear on us without commentary as some past volunteers have done when life changed for them. (Even if the life change itself is for the better - new jobs can do that to folks.) Although if someone became "job corner dude" or whatever title he or she would want, perhaps they could address both tasks a bit. Unfortunately when the word got out that they do that for SVLUG, they might get deluged in even more spam, esp. from morons who think SVLUG can hire people directly. Anyways I have sympathy for the whole job sitch, but we need to come up with something to do that doesn't create unmanageable extra problems, or whose extra problems have at least been actively accepted by some specific, responsible people who'll keep on the ball. When it's a little more clear what that is... I, or Joyce, or someone else among our webteam (we're working on having a few more, yes) will be glad to update the job policy webpage again. Commentary from other officers welcome... . | . Heather Stern --->*<--- Starshine Technical Services ' | ` SVLUG Web Content Coordinator From bill at wards.net Wed Jul 24 15:10:27 2002 From: bill at wards.net (William R Ward) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner?? In-Reply-To: <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> References: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> Message-ID: <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> Heather Stern writes: >On Mon, Jul 22, 2002 at 01:38:07PM -0700, William R Ward wrote: >> >> I think the website needs updating. It talks of a "job corner" after >> the meetings. In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of >> milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a >> "job corner". I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared. >> >> With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to >> provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact >> with each other. The website alludes to an old system where jobs >> could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something >> like that would not be a bad idea. > >We used to, but just can't - there are way too many announcements that >result when job seekers and recruiters get the mike, and it was >occasionally difficult to get them to stop talking and hand it over to >the next one. OK, here's an idea... each person can submit a sheet of paper describing what it is they are offering/seeking, with a size limitation (subject to further editing if needed). Instead of handing them the mike, have the MC or someone from the club read these out loud. After each one, have the person stand and wave so that people who are interested can find them. >The result was cutting short of speaker time, when it's the speaker we >all came for. I agree, but there are a lot of people who have been out of work for way too long... >> Or, do it the way Bay LISA does, >> and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their >> names & contact info and what they do or want. > >The room is too large, has no whiteboard of its own. I can bring a >portable whiteboard for the purpose, but with the much larger group of >SVLUG, it might take forever or easily overflow. Sadly, it doesn't >scale well. OK, then how about designating one of the tables that line the walls as a resume repository. Tell people to bring copies of their resume and leave them there, and recruiters to bring printouts of their job listings, and people can pick them up as desired. >Doing something to more formally re-establish the Job Corner might help; >I think the main thing that has harmed it is that most of our speakers >run closer to lockup-time than we used to, and then Cisco wants us out, >so using the inside of the room as some more meeting space for a brief >while doesn't work out. :( I agree, but that's a separate issue. I agree that the speakers all too often run late. Perhaps this should be addressed as well. I'm a member of a Toastmasters club and we always have someone whose job it is to keep track of time and indicate when a speaker's time is about to be up (warning), and when it is up. Perhaps that principle can be adapted to SVLUG. >The idea has been raised a few times of having an svlug-jobs@ the way >BayLISA has a baylisa-jobs mailing list. Disadvantages: It's moderated. >It's highly attractive to spammers. Recruiters who really recruit, but >just can't restrian themselves from posting more than their fair share, >need to be slapped (kindly at first), and if they remain annoying, blocked. >So it's also a good idea, but it needs an active moderator with time to >handle it... who will not disappear on us without commentary as some >past volunteers have done when life changed for them. (Even if the life >change itself is for the better - new jobs can do that to folks.) Another model to look at is the jobs.perl.org and perl-jobs mailing list. The job listings are posted by recruiters or hiring managers filling out a web form, which is then available on the website and sent out to list subscribers. There is a team of moderators, but there is very little work involved in moderating it. The trouble is that moderating the jobs list is something that is generally not of much interest to most people most of the time. When you've got a job, it isn't something that matters much. When you're job hunting, it would be a conflict of interest... >Although if someone became "job corner dude" or whatever title he or she >would want, perhaps they could address both tasks a bit. Unfortunately >when the word got out that they do that for SVLUG, they might get >deluged in even more spam, esp. from morons who think SVLUG can hire >people directly. That's a concern. But there's no reason the moderator's identity needs to be made widely available. If an inquiry is made to the jobs-moderator mail alias, then it would be revealed of course... >Anyways I have sympathy for the whole job sitch, but we need to come up >with something to do that doesn't create unmanageable extra problems, >or whose extra problems have at least been actively accepted by some >specific, responsible people who'll keep on the ball. When it's a >little more clear what that is... I, or Joyce, or someone else among our >webteam (we're working on having a few more, yes) will be glad to update >the job policy webpage again. To reiterate: I think that the "jobs corner" section should be removed from the website if no effort is to be made to offer such a corner. But given the current market with so many people out of work and so few job openings available, it would be a very useful service to many SVLUG members. I think the current policies were put in place in a completely different universe, when recruiters were desperate to find people and most people had jobs. Now it's different, and the policy should reflect that. >Commentary from other officers welcome... Ditto. --Bill. -- William R Ward bill@wards.net http://www.wards.net/~bill/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When it comes to humility, I'm the GREATEST!" -- Bullwinkle J. Moose From star at starshine.org Wed Jul 24 16:28:00 2002 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:40 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner?? In-Reply-To: <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> References: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> Message-ID: <20020724232800.GA28007@starshine.org> > >> I think the website needs updating. It talks of a "job corner" after > >> the meetings. In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of > >> milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a > >> "job corner". I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared. > >> > >> With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to > >> provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact > >> with each other. The website alludes to an old system where jobs > >> could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something > >> like that would not be a bad idea. > > > >We used to, but just can't - there are way too many announcements that > >result when job seekers and recruiters get the mike, and it was > >occasionally difficult to get them to stop talking and hand it over to > >the next one. > > OK, here's an idea... each person can submit a sheet of paper > describing what it is they are offering/seeking, with a size > limitation (subject to further editing if needed). Instead of handing > them the mike, have the MC or someone from the club read these out > loud. After each one, have the person stand and wave so that people > who are interested can find them. We have enough problem getting the people with the other sorts of announcements to reveal themselevs ahead of time... however, it's certainly easy to say you don't get job-related announcements without it. Sort of an intelligence test. (perhaps one of the folk who normally wield the mike before the speaker goes up should comment on this possibility. My own arrival time is too vague, unless I'm told ahead of time that I'm the MC for a month you cannot expect that it'd be me.) > >The result was cutting short of speaker time, when it's the speaker we > >all came for. > > I agree, but there are a lot of people who have been out of work for > way too long... > > >> Or, do it the way Bay LISA does, > >> and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their > >> names & contact info and what they do or want. > > > >The room is too large, has no whiteboard of its own. I can bring a > >portable whiteboard for the purpose, but with the much larger group of > >SVLUG, it might take forever or easily overflow. Sadly, it doesn't > >scale well. > > OK, then how about designating one of the tables that line the walls > as a resume repository. Tell people to bring copies of their resume > and leave them there, and recruiters to bring printouts of their job > listings, and people can pick them up as desired. leads to an easier than average note... Who's going to clean up after them? > >Doing something to more formally re-establish the Job Corner might help; > >I think the main thing that has harmed it is that most of our speakers > >run closer to lockup-time than we used to, and then Cisco wants us out, > >so using the inside of the room as some more meeting space for a brief > >while doesn't work out. :( > > I agree, but that's a separate issue. I disagree. Your complaint is that the Job Corner, such as it is, isn't formal. I expressed what I see as the reason behind that. In a world of requirements, requirements analysis suggests that the way the venue is used represents a constraint, or at least other factors in how the room works. If you fail to consider them, you come up with a great scheme that in the real world doesn't work that way. Thus the informal nature of our attempted Job Corners. > I agree that the speakers all > too often run late. Perhaps this should be addressed as well. I'm a > member of a Toastmasters club and we always have someone whose job it > is to keep track of time and indicate when a speaker's time is about > to be up (warning), and when it is up. Perhaps that principle can be > adapted to SVLUG. Maybe. I leave such matters to the speakers coordinator. The rest of the principle is getting 200+ gabby techies to stay seated long enough to listen to the after-announcements. BayLISA has a bit of problem managing this, and we have a quarter, or less, population to control than SVLUG does. > >The idea has been raised a few times of having an svlug-jobs@ the way > >BayLISA has a baylisa-jobs mailing list. Disadvantages: It's moderated. > >It's highly attractive to spammers. Recruiters who really recruit, but > >just can't restrian themselves from posting more than their fair share, > >need to be slapped (kindly at first), and if they remain annoying, blocked. > >So it's also a good idea, but it needs an active moderator with time to > >handle it... who will not disappear on us without commentary as some > >past volunteers have done when life changed for them. (Even if the life > >change itself is for the better - new jobs can do that to folks.) > > Another model to look at is the jobs.perl.org and perl-jobs mailing > list. The job listings are posted by recruiters or hiring managers > filling out a web form, which is then available on the website and > sent out to list subscribers. There is a team of moderators, but > there is very little work involved in moderating it. You're saying that they don't accept missives that don't come via the web form? > The trouble is that moderating the jobs list is something that is > generally not of much interest to most people most of the time. When > you've got a job, it isn't something that matters much. When you're > job hunting, it would be a conflict of interest... It need not be. I'd call it a conflict of interest if they work as a recruiter at a dog-eat-dog recruitment house... but not just because someone has a day job, or doesn't. In my opinion the hardest requirement is that the moderator(s) be *reliable* - because job-hunting or hiring are time-bound announcements. That makes it harder even than the rag-tag batch of us who watch the officers list for jobs-to-forward. We chose this method because it's a light enough workload that timeliness should be ok. > >Although if someone became "job corner dude" or whatever title he or she > >would want, perhaps they could address both tasks a bit. Unfortunately > >when the word got out that they do that for SVLUG, they might get > >deluged in even more spam, esp. from morons who think SVLUG can hire > >people directly. > > That's a concern. But there's no reason the moderator's identity > needs to be made widely available. If an inquiry is made to the > jobs-moderator mail alias, then it would be revealed of course... > > >Anyways I have sympathy for the whole job sitch, but we need to come up > >with something to do that doesn't create unmanageable extra problems, > >or whose extra problems have at least been actively accepted by some > >specific, responsible people who'll keep on the ball. When it's a > >little more clear what that is... I, or Joyce, or someone else among our > >webteam (we're working on having a few more, yes) will be glad to update > >the job policy webpage again. > > To reiterate: I think that the "jobs corner" section should be removed > from the website if no effort is to be made to offer such a corner. I have watched, and I have been the one holding the after-speaker mike and announcing that people with this interest gather at a specific place in the room. If you think it's not an offer just 'cuz it has no big glossy sign... make a sign. This is a volunteer organization. Our only pay is thank-yous and an occasional free soda. But you're welcome to be part of the core that makes things better. I don't get the impression that you'd prefer we have no Jobs Corner. > But given the current market with so many people out of work and so > few job openings available, it would be a very useful service to many > SVLUG members. I think the current policies were put in place in a > completely different universe, when recruiters were desperate to find > people and most people had jobs. Now it's different, and the policy > should reflect that. It does. We went back to one aspect of policy that we had before the VCs got all hot about Linux and things were quiet; officers forward approved job offers onto the SVLUG list. We have always encouraged human-networking during the hubbub. Sorry if it doesn't feel official enough. In order for it to get a bit more focussed, it would need someone to have the cycles to spare focussing it - and then be willing to not blow the job off when their world changes. If you're willing to be that person, than as far as I'm concerned, welcome aboard. If you're not, then your suggestions on where you think we'd find him/her would be welcome too. Just remember the pay is zero dollars and some common sense. > >Commentary from other officers welcome... > Ditto. > --Bill. . | . Heather Stern --->*<--- Starshine Technical Services ' | ` SVLUG Web Content Coordinator From bill at wards.net Wed Jul 24 17:03:05 2002 From: bill at wards.net (William R Ward) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:41 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner?? In-Reply-To: <20020724232800.GA28007@starshine.org> References: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> <20020724232800.GA28007@starshine.org> Message-ID: <15679.16441.54793.617469@komodo.home.wards.net> Heather Stern writes: >> >> I think the website needs updating. It talks of a "job corner" after >> >> the meetings. In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of >> >> milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a >> >> "job corner". I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared. >> >> >> >> With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to >> >> provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact >> >> with each other. The website alludes to an old system where jobs >> >> could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something >> >> like that would not be a bad idea. >> > >> >We used to, but just can't - there are way too many announcements that >> >result when job seekers and recruiters get the mike, and it was >> >occasionally difficult to get them to stop talking and hand it over to >> >the next one. >> >> OK, here's an idea... each person can submit a sheet of paper >> describing what it is they are offering/seeking, with a size >> limitation (subject to further editing if needed). Instead of handing >> them the mike, have the MC or someone from the club read these out >> loud. After each one, have the person stand and wave so that people >> who are interested can find them. > >We have enough problem getting the people with the other sorts of >announcements to reveal themselevs ahead of time... however, it's >certainly easy to say you don't get job-related announcements without >it. Sort of an intelligence test. I agree. If you don't plan ahead, you miss your chance. >(perhaps one of the folk who normally wield the mike before the speaker >goes up should comment on this possibility. My own arrival time is too >vague, unless I'm told ahead of time that I'm the MC for a month you >cannot expect that it'd be me.) Good idea. >> >The result was cutting short of speaker time, when it's the speaker we >> >all came for. >> >> I agree, but there are a lot of people who have been out of work for >> way too long... >> >> >> Or, do it the way Bay LISA does, >> >> and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their >> >> names & contact info and what they do or want. >> > >> >The room is too large, has no whiteboard of its own. I can bring a >> >portable whiteboard for the purpose, but with the much larger group of >> >SVLUG, it might take forever or easily overflow. Sadly, it doesn't >> >scale well. >> >> OK, then how about designating one of the tables that line the walls >> as a resume repository. Tell people to bring copies of their resume >> and leave them there, and recruiters to bring printouts of their job >> listings, and people can pick them up as desired. > >leads to an easier than average note... Who's going to clean up after them? Themselves. If you put resumes on the table, pick up your leftovers. Otherwise, it's not too hard to shovel the leftovers into the recycling bin. I don't think that's an issue. >> >Doing something to more formally re-establish the Job Corner might help; >> >I think the main thing that has harmed it is that most of our speakers >> >run closer to lockup-time than we used to, and then Cisco wants us out, >> >so using the inside of the room as some more meeting space for a brief >> >while doesn't work out. :( >> >> I agree, but that's a separate issue. > >I disagree. > >Your complaint is that the Job Corner, such as it is, isn't formal. I >expressed what I see as the reason behind that. In a world of >requirements, requirements analysis suggests that the way the venue is >used represents a constraint, or at least other factors in how the >room works. If you fail to consider them, you come up with a great >scheme that in the real world doesn't work that way. > >Thus the informal nature of our attempted Job Corners. > >> I agree that the speakers all >> too often run late. Perhaps this should be addressed as well. I'm a >> member of a Toastmasters club and we always have someone whose job it >> is to keep track of time and indicate when a speaker's time is about >> to be up (warning), and when it is up. Perhaps that principle can be >> adapted to SVLUG. > >Maybe. I leave such matters to the speakers coordinator. I agree. That's why I said it was a separate issue. >The rest of the principle is getting 200+ gabby techies to stay seated >long enough to listen to the after-announcements. BayLISA >has a bit of problem managing this, and we have a quarter, or less, >population to control than SVLUG does. Well, that's what the door prizes are for, right? That remins me: can I offer a half-price discount on a training class as a door prize? >> >The idea has been raised a few times of having an svlug-jobs@ the way >> >BayLISA has a baylisa-jobs mailing list. Disadvantages: It's moderated. >> >It's highly attractive to spammers. Recruiters who really recruit, but >> >just can't restrian themselves from posting more than their fair share, >> >need to be slapped (kindly at first), and if they remain annoying, blocked. >> >So it's also a good idea, but it needs an active moderator with time to >> >handle it... who will not disappear on us without commentary as some >> >past volunteers have done when life changed for them. (Even if the life >> >change itself is for the better - new jobs can do that to folks.) >> >> Another model to look at is the jobs.perl.org and perl-jobs mailing >> list. The job listings are posted by recruiters or hiring managers >> filling out a web form, which is then available on the website and >> sent out to list subscribers. There is a team of moderators, but >> there is very little work involved in moderating it. > >You're saying that they don't accept missives that don't come via the >web form? No, but they are a lot more likely to accept them if they do come from it, since it makes sure that all the relevant details are there. >> The trouble is that moderating the jobs list is something that is >> generally not of much interest to most people most of the time. When >> you've got a job, it isn't something that matters much. When you're >> job hunting, it would be a conflict of interest... > >It need not be. I'd call it a conflict of interest if they work as a >recruiter at a dog-eat-dog recruitment house... but not just because >someone has a day job, or doesn't. > >In my opinion the hardest requirement is that the moderator(s) be >*reliable* - because job-hunting or hiring are time-bound announcements. >That makes it harder even than the rag-tag batch of us who watch the >officers list for jobs-to-forward. We chose this method because it's >a light enough workload that timeliness should be ok. If the officers list gets overwhelmed then you should delegate it. Otherwise the current system is probably fine. >> >Although if someone became "job corner dude" or whatever title he or she >> >would want, perhaps they could address both tasks a bit. Unfortunately >> >when the word got out that they do that for SVLUG, they might get >> >deluged in even more spam, esp. from morons who think SVLUG can hire >> >people directly. >> >> That's a concern. But there's no reason the moderator's identity >> needs to be made widely available. If an inquiry is made to the >> jobs-moderator mail alias, then it would be revealed of course... >> >> >Anyways I have sympathy for the whole job sitch, but we need to come up >> >with something to do that doesn't create unmanageable extra problems, >> >or whose extra problems have at least been actively accepted by some >> >specific, responsible people who'll keep on the ball. When it's a >> >little more clear what that is... I, or Joyce, or someone else among our >> >webteam (we're working on having a few more, yes) will be glad to update >> >the job policy webpage again. >> >> To reiterate: I think that the "jobs corner" section should be removed >> from the website if no effort is to be made to offer such a corner. > >I have watched, and I have been the one holding the after-speaker mike >and announcing that people with this interest gather at a specific place >in the room. If you think it's not an offer just 'cuz it has no big >glossy sign... make a sign. That's happened once or twice, but not often, lately. I fully admit that it probably used to happen every month. >This is a volunteer organization. Our only >pay is thank-yous and an occasional free soda. But you're welcome to >be part of the core that makes things better. Doesn't one have to be elected to do that? >I don't get the impression that you'd prefer we have no Jobs Corner. My concern was the inconsistency between the website and the reality of the meetings, combined with the sympathetic knowledge that lots of SVLUGgers are still out of work... >> But given the current market with so many people out of work and so >> few job openings available, it would be a very useful service to many >> SVLUG members. I think the current policies were put in place in a >> completely different universe, when recruiters were desperate to find >> people and most people had jobs. Now it's different, and the policy >> should reflect that. > >It does. We went back to one aspect of policy that we had before the >VCs got all hot about Linux and things were quiet; officers forward >approved job offers onto the SVLUG list. Yes, and I'm glad for that. >We have always encouraged human-networking during the hubbub. Sorry if >it doesn't feel official enough. In order for it to get a bit more >focussed, it would need someone to have the cycles to spare focussing it >- and then be willing to not blow the job off when their world changes. >If you're willing to be that person, than as far as I'm concerned, >welcome aboard. If you're not, then your suggestions on where you think >we'd find him/her would be welcome too. Just remember the pay is zero >dollars and some common sense. I don't think that we actually need a job coordinator. I'm just saying that if we want to have a job corner, then I'd like to see it made more obvious during the meetings. Or if there's no job corner, remove it from the website. If there is a job corner, I would like to see it done in a way that requires as little effort as possible from people other than the job seekers & offerers, to avoid depending on volunteer labor. >> >Commentary from other officers welcome... >> Ditto. I think at this point you and I have stated & restated our opinions enough. Anyone else care to weigh in? --Bill. -- William R Ward bill@wards.net http://www.wards.net/~bill/ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "When it comes to humility, I'm the GREATEST!" -- Bullwinkle J. Moose From dmarti at zgp.org Wed Jul 24 22:32:05 2002 From: dmarti at zgp.org (Don Marti) Date: Sat Apr 2 14:56:41 2005 Subject: [web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner?? In-Reply-To: <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> References: <15676.27951.563169.725192@komodo.home.wards.net> <20020724214145.GA27535@starshine.org> <15679.9683.243062.168202@komodo.home.wards.net> Message-ID: <1027575125.8445.12.camel@zingiber> On Wed, 2002-07-24 at 15:10, William R Ward wrote: > OK, here's an idea... each person can submit a sheet of paper > describing what it is they are offering/seeking, with a size > limitation (subject to further editing if needed). Instead of handing > them the mike, have the MC or someone from the club read these out > loud. Works for me. I've never refused an announcement for a member, and I'd be willing to read out job announcements. I think the announcement should have to come from an SVLUG member though, and be somehow Linux-related. No fair for someone from Arkansas who has never been to a meeting to send me mail asking me to read out 50 Solaris positions. > OK, then how about designating one of the tables that line the walls > as a resume repository. Tell people to bring copies of their resume > and leave them there, and recruiters to bring printouts of their job > listings, and people can pick them up as desired. If Linux Journal can do it, job seekers and hunters should be able to do it. Everyone should clean up his or her own extras, and one of the officers can check the table afterwards (as we usually end up picking up beverage containers anyway.) -- Don Marti dmarti@zgp.org Help spread accurate information http://zgp.org/~dmarti/ about Xenu and the Church of Scientology. Scientology on your web site.