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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/20/19 2:32 PM, Rick Moen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Quoting Bobbie Sellers (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com">bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com</a>):
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I tried a bunch of Flash Drives sequentially as I have
previously mentioned I am not installing
to hard drives or even SSD. Since they cannot get on line prevents
attempting to do any
sort of download or online information seeking at the alleged meeting
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
No, it doesn't. Because there are also other people at the meeting who
can help with posting online, and also (alternatively) because you can
make a contemporaneous record of what happened and then boot to an OS
load you know works on your computer.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
You don't reakkt get ut di tiy (leaving an example of my
dyspraxia)<br>
I bet I could destroy a drive without checking my terminal
typing closely.<br>
<br>
You don't really get it do you, I was there, Jim showed up
without a computer<br>
due to other problems. So there was one computer being used to test
downloaded,<br>
check-summed iso files written to Flash Drives. There was no other
user there<br>
to go online and check for various drivers, etc.<br>
<br>
This is too often the situation. i don't let it discourage me
because sooner<br>
or later someone shows up to ask questions or request a
distribution.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
While you have the distro being evaluated running, open a console
terminal, collect information about the problem, and use Clipboard to
copy/paste the session into a text editor, then save that as a plaintext
file and copy it to a USB flash drive. Then, you would have that
information stored verbatim for posting to a LUG mailing list either
during the meeting from Cafe Enchanté or later from elsewhere.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
When it will not boot collecting information via any tool seems
a bit <br>
beyond me. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">No you fail to understand my system of: here is a system you might
want to use, take a good look at the display and what is listed in the
menues. If you like it, here is the Flash Drive to take home and try
out.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Oh, no, I fully understand that. (Remember, I was part of the team that
invented live Linux CDs in the first place.) What seems odd is
(seemingly) making no effort to address small problems that prevent you
from seeing the distro to proper advantage, and with the result that
nobody learns.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I don't run installers at the meeting, unless someone
contacts me in advance and shows up at the meeting
by 6 PM or 11 AM on Sundays.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
OK, but failing to solve basic problems of live distros prevents you
from seeing them to proper advantage and evaluating what running them
would be like, too, so this objection really doesn't address what I was
saying.
And, if you were imagining that it's impractical to install a KDE them
on a live distro, no, it should not be difficult, because the changes
should land in the running RAMdisk rather than on the read-only image.
(Of course, they would not be persistent unless you took additional
steps.)</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
120 minutes is the length of a meeting, I would rather drag my
problems home and try to fix them<br>
here where I have nearly 3 weeks to discover the cures,<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> Yes as the backend to Synaptic.
The use of apt is discouraged.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Well, don't listen to that, as it's not in your interest to heed that
bad advice.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I listen to the people who roll the distro and who get new
kernels out that work. <br>
When the new kernel does not work I contact them and the
problems generally<br>
get fixed in the next release.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Not on your life.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Then, you'll basically never get effective help unless someone is
willing to do housecalls, and good luck with that.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I am the one doing house calls. Friday for a friend I fixed his
TV antenna but the walk up the stairs<br>
to his apartment nearly wiped me out.<br>
Tuesday I went to my client Strange(a published author) and
helped him out with a couple of<br>
small problems. <br>
Wednesday afternoon I went with my good friend to the Apple
store and helped him save<br>
some money by taking him to the Central Computer store where he
spent $700 plus taxes<br>
and fees on a new i5 Dell Inspiron. Anticipating installing PCLinux
on that machine I purchased<br>
a copy of PartEd Magic to use on the reduction of the Windows
partition.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
The most important reasons to collect and post information from basic
command-line tools:
1. Because they don't conceal error output.
2. Because they permit you to show verbatim and consecutively what
happened.
3. Because they're much closer to universal. (Nobody who uses
an apt-based distribution is going to install Synaptic solely
to replicate what you describe.)
Without verbatim data, helpers are basically blind to what you
experience, and reliant solely on the user's (usually after the fact)
descriptions, which despite best intentions will always omit
important details and include inaccuracies. So, it's common to
see helpers who've been around to learn these facts say 'Sorry to
hear you're having a problem. Please post again with verbatim
console results showing the problem so we can see it and help you.'
If you as a person encountering problems decline to collect relevant
data for helpers, then you'll get sympathy but in general not be able to
get assistance.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
No helpers at the meeting last week<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
And your debugging technique will remain 'I booted this distro and
couldn't Web-browse, so I gave up.'</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
No I booted this distro and could not connect to the WiFi which
is one of my basic tests<br>
of the distribution.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The instructions I gave above present you with a quandary You cannot
update to the newer package until the older package is deleted by
Synaptic and the update ilists the new version of LibreOffice as a
dependency of libreoffice-openclipart 6.2-1pclos2019 and refuses to
install.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
The link I sent in the prior posting suggested that you should leave the
matter up to lomanager rather than trying to use Synaptic.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
The matter is that while LO Manager will take care of the
LibreOffice sometime LibreOffice will demand<br>
specific updates. Those updates must be done with Synaptic(your
choice would be apt I know). But as<br>
I mentioned the specific LibreOffice package to access cliparts and
to must be removed and Synaptic is<br>
how I did that. Then if you want Clipart you must install the
updated package which has LO as<br>
a dependency.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
I'm not a PCLinuxOS user, so I cannot evaluate that suggestion, but the
fellow purported to know the distro-local customs and was an
administrator of that PCLinuxOS-specific forum.</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
And yet it was LO manager which told me to get a parcel of
updates and LibreOffice manager which<br>
told me to remove the file. But it was myself who put in the
updated file so that when I find the time<br>
I can explore the wonderful world of Clipart. ;^)<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:20190320213259.GI28810@linuxmafia.com">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">23 minutes is long enough to wait for my breakfast while I
reply to your lengthy screed.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
Wow, that was pretty ungracious, but I'm certainly not offended. And
since you bring that up, I'm not voting so much to help _you_ as to
continue the community process, which includes helping people learn how
to solve technical problems. Of course, if I'm able to help you as
well, that makes me particularly happy, so I really _do_ help what I
wrote helps.</pre>
</blockquote>
Then come to the meeting and advise people or use the meetings
to lecture on the matters <br>
you find important. But please learn to be less lengthy in your
critical remarks as redading and<br>
replying to them takes me a lot more time than it takes your to
write them.<br>
<br>
I not gracious?!<br>
<br>
Goodness.<br>
<br>
Bobbie Sellers - my nose is quite athletic, it runs in all
weathers but<br>
stopped during our smoky summer of 2018<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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