<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFCCFF">
Thanks for your input Michael.<br>
I am rather busy lately since the<br>
time I can work here is severely reduced.<br>
Waiting for my sunblock to dry so I can<br>
go out for blood draw.<br>
<br>
Bobbie<br>
<br>
On 1/24/19 10:26 PM, Michael Paoli wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">From: "Bobbie Sellers"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com"><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com></a><br>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:53 -0800<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> I started pricing the smaller laser
printers last night but<br>
the consumable seem to be high priced but then you get<br>
more pages out of the refills.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I find, at least most certainly in the long-run,<br>
laser printer is *much* more economical.<br>
Sure, it's more up-front cost, but much less expensive over<br>
years (e.g. 3+, and especially 5+) of use.<br>
<br>
Let's look at my pre-laser cost scenario:<br>
<br>
Back in - I'm pretty sure it was 1989 - I purchased a<br>
HP DeskJet Plus (I believe that was only the 2nd inkjet HP made).<br>
Initial investment, for that resolution (I think it was 300DPI, if
I<br>
recall correctly), and, oh, I don't remember precisely what it
cost<br>
then, but almost certainly somewhere between $45.00 USD and $99.00
USD<br>
(I may have it in old system logs & receipts if I really
wanted to<br>
go on an archeological expedition to determine much more precisely
...<br>
but that's likely all on paper, and, well, I don't feel motivated<br>
enough to reach 6+ ft. and look through old hardcopy systems log<br>
book, ... which probably has the equipment acquisition details,<br>
but may not have included the price ... though that would be on<br>
ye olde paper receipts, but that would be even more of an<br>
archeological expedition ... even if I think I know where I
probably<br>
have that and/or photocopy thereof).<br>
So, I'll guestimate, and say I paid (way back then),<br>
$85.00 USD for the printer - and that it included one ink
cartridge.<br>
And ... operating costs - at least for me (a bit atypicaly, but
not<br>
necessarily highly so) ... I print dang little, ... well under<br>
100 pages per year, probably mostly less than 25 pages per<br>
year (sure, could take USB flash to some place and print out,<br>
but the inconvenience to me and the value of my time to me makes<br>
that an unpleasant and costly (if i put a reasonable value on my<br>
time) alternative ... especially also since most of the printing
is<br>
small amounts on a relatively ad hoc basis (e.g. 1 to 4 pages at a<br>
time typically).<br>
<br>
So, ... ink cartridges, ... use 'em or not they need to be
replaced<br>
moderately frequently, ... sometimes refilling can be done, but
that's<br>
less reliable and takes more time/hassle (also a "cost" to one's
time),<br>
so ... at my modest printing levels, I'd typically need to buy a
replacement<br>
ink cartridge typically about once a year or so (it generally
dried up /<br>
clogged, long before printing near the number of pages if I'd
merely<br>
just started printing and continued to do so 'till the thing ran
out of<br>
ink ... that would probably be like 500 to 600 pages for typical<br>
printing).<br>
So, ... replacement cartridge prices vary somewhat, but they also
tend to<br>
go up somewhat over time (notably as the printer becomes a fair
bit older),<br>
so ... HP InkJet Plus, we're talking approximately:<br>
$85.00 initial investment approximately, plus about<br>
$45.00/yr. thereafter in replacement ink cartridges.<br>
(I could do cost/page or such, but for my slight bit of printing,<br>
cost/yr. is a more practical measure ... notably also 'cause being
able<br>
to print at home is helluva lot more convenient than having to
drag<br>
data to somewhere else (or myself to somewhere else to pick up) to<br>
print somewhere else (like some copy/print store/service).<br>
<br>
Eventually I got fed up with that comparatively high ongoing cost<br>
(with a slight diversion of using another InkJet printer for a<br>
slight while ... mostly 'cause the cost was right (I picked it up<br>
free, used, good condition, working, full color, including all
working<br>
inks in it still ... and some while later (a few years) I made one<br>
attempt at trying to get it printing again with one new
replacement<br>
ink cartridge ... that totally failed (clogged elsewhere
apparently)<br>
and "gave up", saying I'm done with buying ink cartridges.<br>
<br>
So ... ink based: ~= $85.00 + $45.00/yr. thereafter - forever.<br>
<br>
So, ... I shopped around, ... laser much more economical for the<br>
long-run, ... color, not *needed* ... but - at least for me, a<br>
very "nice to have" - at least if my per yr. cost isn't much<br>
higher on that. And ... "all-in-one' ... sure, nice to have at
least<br>
some of those features, and done well in a combined unit, ... so<br>
that's basically what I got ... does most all I could wish for at
a<br>
(to me) reasonable price. The only bit it doesn't do is any
automatic<br>
duplexing ... but that additional cost wasn't worth it to me - my<br>
print volumes are so low it's not much hassle for me to do manual<br>
duplexing. It also had some features I wasn't so interested in,<br>
but were "nice to have", e.g. sheet feeder (for scanning or
copying)<br>
FAX receive (don't really care, but if I ever want it), FAX send
(which<br>
is unimportant to me - as I could always do that easily enough
with<br>
other hardware), USB --> print/FAX, scan --> USB ... not at
all<br>
important to me, but does at least occasionally turn out to be<br>
fairly handy. And quite importantly,<br>
works darn solidly with CUPS! - I did my research/homework, and
with<br>
bit of coordination and cooperation with the retailer, I brought
in<br>
my Linux laptop, with my favorite distro, with the relevant CUPS
bits<br>
installed and configured ... connected the all-in-one printer to<br>
my laptop, and tested I could print fine with CUPS ... that was<br>
my last check before sealing the deal and purchasing the<br>
(all-in-one) printer, and taking it home.<br>
So, how much? ... (yes, have it in the softcopy hardware logs),<br>
excerpted bits thereof:<br>
2013-02-08<br>
Hewlett-Packard (hp) LaserJet Pro 200 color MFP M276nw<br>
Product No. CF145A<br>
$299.99 (before tax) (egad, price/cost not in my softcopy hardware
log,<br>
but I have, and had also captured and saved image of the receipt,<br>
the latter of which was easy to find by my description index of<br>
images, and also by date).<br>
So, some (minor) pluses and minuses to note,<br>
yes, sure, the laser toner replacement ain't cheap, but each is
good for<br>
I think roughly 2,400 pages or so. Also, that printer comes with<br>
lower capacity "starter" cartridges ... only good for about 600
pages<br>
pages each (they do reasonably clearly tell you that, so it's not
like some<br>
unexpected rip-off ... more like kind'a somewhere between printer
comes<br>
with no cartridges, jump to buying those 2,400 page each full ones
for<br>
a big bump in initial expense, vs. full 2,400 page ones, which<br>
if supplied with the new printer would of course increase its
initial cost<br>
at least some fair bit. And, so, ... 2019-01 ... almost 6 years -
let's<br>
round and call it 6 years, ... in those initial 600 page capacity
of<br>
the "starter" cartridges ... I don't think I'm even up to 300
total printed<br>
pages yet.<br>
So ... and replacement toner cartridges, ... let's say they're<br>
$80.00 each (I'm guestimating) x 4 for BCMY ... okay, peek on-line
to refine cost ... $72.99 Black, $169.99 CMY 3-pack - and those
are what appear<br>
to be HP MSRP prices (probably lower prices and/or lesser quality
to be had,<br>
if one wishes / shops around). So, ... cost per year?<br>
Well, at <~-300/6 ... ~50 pages/yr. Let's round up a bit and
say<br>
60 pages per year. At 2,400 pages per toner cartridge ... 40
years, ...<br>
but let's be reasonable, let's presume toner cartridges aren't
good after<br>
10 years (as far as I can tell the still work perfectly fine after
~6 yrs.).<br>
So that then leaves:<br>
$299.99 printer,<br>
~first 10 yrs. covered (600 pages @ 60/yr.)<br>
thereafter ~$72.99+$169.99=~$242.98/10 yr ~= $24.30/yr.,<br>
(and I could still go as high as 240p./yr. without exceeding that
cost).<br>
So, compared to ink, that's a savings of about $25.00/yr.<br>
Looking at initial cost differences between the printers<br>
($299.99-~$85.00=~$215.00) and difference per year (~25.00/yr)<br>
ROI of about 8.6 years ...<br>
but that fails to take into account the ~600 page "starter"<br>
toner cartridges, ... that drops the first 10 years down to
initial +<br>
$0.00/yr, so, within the first decade ...<br>
initial difference of ~$215.00,<br>
yearly first decade difference of ~$45.00/yr.,<br>
so that's ROI of <~= 4.7 years ... but I was using pretty
conservative<br>
rounded numbers, ... so my printer more likely already paid for<br>
itself in savings within about 2.5 to 3 years,<br>
and thereafter continues to save me about ~$45.00/yr. for the<br>
remainder of its first decade,<br>
and ~$25.00/yr. thereafter.<br>
So, in net, printer break even point in about 2.5 to 3 years,<br>
and saving ~$45.00 (within fist decade) to ~$25.00/yr.
indefinitely<br>
beyond ROI break-even point.<br>
<br>
Additional comparative bonuses on making that switch:<br>
I can tell quite accurately remaining toner capacity (I get
estimated<br>
remaining pages on each cartridge) - as opposed to ink failing<br>
relatively unpredictably - mostly when I (semi-)rarely needed it,<br>
and I couldn't print 'till I got yet another cartridge (and since
for<br>
my low printing use, buying ink well ahead of time would be
pointless,<br>
as those cartridges would be dead/failed, or nearly so, before the<br>
prior died and I installed the newer).<br>
Toner has *long* shelf life (I'm estimating >>10 yrs.), so I
can reasonably<br>
well stock up as I approach rather low, and lose little (if any?)
remaining<br>
life on purchasing toner cartridges moderately before I run out.<br>
higher resolution printing<br>
color<br>
scanner (color or B/W) + sheet feeder<br>
copier (optionally full color - just press different button)<br>
FAX send/receive<br>
scan --> USB flash<br>
USB flash --> print<br>
teensy downsides:<br>
more up-front cost<br>
larger<br>
heavier(!)<br>
higher power consumption (but only when on, and especially<br>
printing - my printer spends the vast majority of its time<br>
powered down - so the power cost/page in either case is<br>
compared to other costs, highly negligible).<br>
<br>
Now, my (low!) printing rates are probably rather to quite<br>
atypical, so ROI, etc. for others may be quite different.<br>
But, just for an example comparison, let's say one prints enough<br>
that the printer consumables are consumed before they fail due<br>
to age.<br>
So ... ink, that would be >= 600 pages/yr.<br>
laser, conservatively, >= 240 pages/yr.<br>
<br>
And, cost per page - ongoing costs, with and comparing either of<br>
those?<br>
ink ~$45.00/600p --> ~$0.08/p<br>
toner ~$72.99+$169.99=~$242.98/2,400p --> ~$0.10/p<br>
So ... bit to my surprise, but that back-of-the-envelope rough<br>
calculation shows slightly higher per-page cost for (4-color)
laser,<br>
but also that's with >=600 pages/yr. (which I'm nowhere close
to),<br>
But probably fair bit cheaper with printing black only (and maybe<br>
some more shopping around on supplies),<br>
And that also quickly flips as the pages/yr. drops.<br>
As the ink cartridges fail within about a year, use 'em or not ...<br>
I find that at or below ~444 pages/yr. my per-page cost of laser<br>
goes below that of ink ... and that I typically print well below<br>
that (at or well under 60 pages per year), my laser costs continue<br>
indefinitely to be lower.<br>
<br>
I'm sure your "mileage" will vary ... different printers,
supplies,<br>
lifetime (or end-of-life) (non-)availability of supplies,<br>
cost of supplies over time, printing (and non-printing) patterns,<br>
equipment durability/lifetime - how long/usable and supported as<br>
needed (CUPS?) ... those will all factor in, and different
scenarios<br>
will come up with different higher/lower costs and comparative<br>
costs, and also ROI points for break-even / savings.<br>
<br>
Folks may also want/"need" - and/or care about various features,<br>
which may have intangible costs/benefits, and may or may not be<br>
easily translatable into an effective cost/savings comparative<br>
basis or portion thereof.<br>
<br>
And yes, I've been quite happy with my<br>
Hewlett-Packard (hp) LaserJet Pro 200 color MFP M276nw<br>
... certainly at least for *my* usage scenario.<br>
<br>
Your mileage may, and likely will vary.<br>
(I also did quite like the price I got it at - don't think I ever<br>
found it dropped to/below that price for new - at least so long<br>
as HP was still making that model ... though I think I<br>
sometimes saw it drop/come moderately close, e.g. ~$350.00,
perhaps<br>
sometimes $3x9.99 where 2 <= x <=4).<br>
<br>
Also, I didn't calculate paper costs. I figure mine are quite low
:-><br>
at least for some fair while to come. A Black Friday special,
some<br>
modest number of years back (and after getting that printer), I
got<br>
4 or 5 reams of paper, at $0.01 each (with rebate), ... at <~=<br>
60 pages/yr. that should hold me quite a while ... maybe even a
lifetime<br>
supply (or nearly so?). The rebate might've also cost me one
postage stamp<br>
(or maybe not, if it was all electronic / on-line) ... in any case
that<br>
paper cost/page (at least so long as it lasts me) is also pretty
dang low.<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
sf-lug mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:sf-lug@linuxmafia.com">sf-lug@linuxmafia.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug">http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug</a><br>
SF-LUG is at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.sf-lug.org/">http://www.sf-lug.org/</a> </blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>