From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jul  1 15:26:57 2014
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 15:26:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] boot is full
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7OkQ9X=qfWAmg3UzoLTkLHj8ko5sFVG1uW1VyKGGspmcoOyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140629034049.196220hqys4f02sg@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<CAJdae4qfH-ySqHH=-7_35UBcBnAkkDtH=UJeeWf8=Ux80aXtWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAMNwFGt-=wGLJK=Qa=T0_HM=SKtELL_D2AnSxiqRZAA1wS-_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4r83X7zMrtYtOEYiar2KEJ3s6-yhEdD6kHADKqJKpTDWA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140630032307.58131yhcwdy62ftw@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<CAJ7OkQ9X=qfWAmg3UzoLTkLHj8ko5sFVG1uW1VyKGGspmcoOyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4rrt0DcCeYwkcN19VEsOtZxOW8=AM=cZ4j+DR0yr7gacQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have been able to rm the /boot/.Trash-0

sudo du -h /boot
5.0K    /boot/grub/locale
4.0M    /boot/grub
12K    /boot/lost+found
1.0K    /boot/.Trash-0/info
1.0K    /boot/.Trash-0/files
3.0K    /boot/.Trash-0
39M    /boot

I have about 41 MB free in /boot, as far as I can see, which is 2x as much
as I need currently.  Obviously, I have learned a big lesson about making
sure that /boot is large enough when installing a virtual machine.

$ df -k /boot
Filesystem     1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1          89111 41277     41097  51% /boot

I am now probably going to be able to download kernel updates.  What led to
this problem in the first place was the fact that when I was starting my
Ubuntu update manager, it was telling me that /boot was full, and so I had
to clear out /boot before updating.  Today I was able to update to
3.11.0-24-generic just fine, which is the most recent version of the kernel
that is available to me, apparently:

$ uname -a
Linux laptop 3.11.0-24-generic #41~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Jun 11 13:15:06
UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

In other words, you all have helped me do what I needed to do, which is
update my machine.  Thanks for that!

Once again, so many of my problems are caused by the need for just one or
two Microsoft Windows programs.  The only reason that I changed the size of
/boot was to accommodate the virtual machine, and the only reason that I
installed a virtual machine was to install Microsoft Windows.  And the only
reason that I installed Microsoft Windows was because it is required at the
place where I work.  So those of you who have seen me complain about
proprietary software and Microsoft Windows in particular now understand why
I dislike Microsoft so much.  Microsoft is a control freak.  They are not
happy unless everyone is using only their software.  It is because they
produce tatty software that, for the most part, people only use because
others use it, not because it is actually GOOD software.  I dislike bullies
and Microsoft is a bully.

Fortunately, the number of programs that can run only on Microsoft products
is now down to just three functions, as far as I can see.  It is two
proprietary programs that run only on Internet Explorer, and accessing the
network at work.  End of rant.



On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com> wrote:

> +1.  I would suggest just rm -fr .Trash.  rm doesn't use the concept of a
> trash.  It'll either delete the file or not.  You should be safe simply
> deleting that folder and recovering your very precious space.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:23 AM, Michael Paoli <
> Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>> .Trash-0 - sounds like an ewey GUI kind of thing,
>> not the kind of thing rm(1) would create.
>>
>> And at around 41M, that's a sizeable chunk of that about 88M
>> of your /boot filesystem.
>>
>> And df will indicate what the mount point of the filesystem is,
>> e.g.:
>> $ df -k /boot && sudo umount /boot && df -k /boot && sudo mount /boot
>> Filesystem     1K-blocks  Used Available Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/sda1         233191 23142    197608  11% /boot
>> Filesystem              1K-blocks   Used Available Use% Mounted on
>> /dev/mapper/tigger-root    507940 223937    258012  47% /
>> $
>>
>>  From: "Christian Einfeldt" <einfeldt at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] boot is full
>>> Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 20:24:49 -0700
>>>
>>
>>  I don't have the machine with me now.  I will check this week and get
>>> back
>>> to you.  Thx!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:18 PM, Ken Shaffer <kenshaffer80 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Are you sure you had the boot partition mounted when you looked?  ls -a
>>>> /boot should list all files.  If .Trash-0 is not listed, you must be
>>>> looking in the wrong place.
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Michael,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for the detailed info.  Someone told me that they think that my
>>>>> trash is full of 41M:
>>>>>
>>>>> $ sudo du -h /boot
>>>>> [sudo] password for christian:
>>>>> 5.0K    /boot/grub/locale
>>>>> 1.5M    /boot/grub
>>>>> 12K    /boot/lost+found
>>>>> 6.0K    /boot/.Trash-0/info
>>>>> 41M    /boot/.Trash-0/files
>>>>> 41M    /boot/.Trash-0
>>>>> 77M    /boot
>>>>>
>>>>> but I can't find /boot/.Trash-0 .  I looked for hidden files, but
>>>>> couldn't find it. Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 3:40 AM, Michael Paoli <
>>>>> Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  So, regarding boot is full:
>>>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2014q2/010471.html
>>>>>> et. seq.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you ever get that resolved?
>>>>>> And yes, ~88M is relatively small for boot.  Especially also since
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> typically relatively difficult to make /boot larger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Christian Einfeldt
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thank you
> Samir Faci
>



-- 
Christian Einfeldt
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul  1 20:15:49 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2014 20:15:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] DO NOT REPLY ALL: SF-LUG maintenance W 5:30p--<24:00 PDT
	(& some	mostly non-production BALUG services)
Message-ID: <20140701201549.15794916t0eui6uc@webmail.rawbw.com>

DO NOT REPLY ALL! (unless you're subscribed to BOTH lists)

maintenance starting after  2014-07-02 5:30 P.M. PDT,
expected to conclude before 2014-07-02 24:00 PDT
there may be no additional notifications for this set of outages

Various services will be intermittently (un)available.

Will impact:

SF-LUG:
sf-lug.org, sf-lug.com, www.sf-lug.org, www.sf-lug.com., etc.
will not impact: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/
For SF-LUG, there may also remain the coincidental but unrelated timing of:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2014q2/010554.html

BALUG:
will mostly only impact non-production and ancillary services, e.g.:
http://www.archive.balug.org/
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki
etc.
WILL NOT IMPACT: BALUG main web site and its pages:
http://www.balug.org/
nor BALUG mail lists or email infrastructure

Technical details:
If it's on 208.96.15.250-208.96.15.254 it will be impacted.
Various hardware/firmware/operating system maintenance will be performed
on the physical host which has guest hosts of sflug and balug,
and additional work may also be done on the sflug guest virtual machine's
operating system.




From shane at faultymonk.org  Wed Jul  2 12:19:36 2014
From: shane at faultymonk.org (Shane Tzen)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 12:19:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02
In-Reply-To: <53B06FA7.2040007@well.com>
References: <20140628232030.25271wguxmg1184k@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<53B06FA7.2040007@well.com>
Message-ID: <CA+rfdCQx_T6HvAw-B9NXXV5xAggZ+AUppg_y6Ay4+pajyL9qEg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:57 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>     I've had problems with this: I want to get
> away from NSolutions and use Joker, but
> my credit card complains about
> out-of-country transactions and there's the
> issue of changing registrars.
>     So I plan to register the domain name
> with Joker on July 1 and see how that goes.

It's fairly likely that you'll just lose the domain.

Per http://www.networksolutions.com/support/domain-deletion-policy/:

"If an expired domain name registration is not renewed during any
grace period provided by us, pursuant to our Service Agreement, rather
than delete the domain name registration, we may, in our sole
discretion, renew and transfer the domain name registration to Network
Solutions or to a third party on the customer?s behalf."

--
I've used namecheap for at least five years now and like them enough
to recommend them.



From jim at well.com  Wed Jul  2 19:51:05 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2014 19:51:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02
In-Reply-To: <CA+rfdCQx_T6HvAw-B9NXXV5xAggZ+AUppg_y6Ay4+pajyL9qEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140628232030.25271wguxmg1184k@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<53B06FA7.2040007@well.com>
	<CA+rfdCQx_T6HvAw-B9NXXV5xAggZ+AUppg_y6Ay4+pajyL9qEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53B4C519.10402@well.com>


     Very, very good to know. Thank you, Shane.

     <BADWORD>! I'll have to give 'em more money
and then hope I can get <OTHER_DNS_REG> to
transfer and grab credit or some such.



On 07/02/2014 12:19 PM, Shane Tzen wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:57 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>      I've had problems with this: I want to get
>> away from NSolutions and use Joker, but
>> my credit card complains about
>> out-of-country transactions and there's the
>> issue of changing registrars.
>>      So I plan to register the domain name
>> with Joker on July 1 and see how that goes.
> It's fairly likely that you'll just lose the domain.
>
> Per http://www.networksolutions.com/support/domain-deletion-policy/:
>
> "If an expired domain name registration is not renewed during any
> grace period provided by us, pursuant to our Service Agreement, rather
> than delete the domain name registration, we may, in our sole
> discretion, renew and transfer the domain name registration to Network
> Solutions or to a third party on the customer?s behalf."
>
> --
> I've used namecheap for at least five years now and like them enough
> to recommend them.
>




From maestro415 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  3 06:41:52 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2014 06:41:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SF-LUG] [LSG] Linux Sys. Admin. 101 Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2temekN15tAex1nUg1Wwr5DpC8sBLVYZ+Q4z727iHAt7Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2temekN15tAex1nUg1Wwr5DpC8sBLVYZ+Q4z727iHAt7Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tfd1ZorDNahMzWerbrimyPSHMu95vi_E0QDeu7jGX2EzQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class.

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible

BART => Civic Center

MUNI rail => Van Ness Station

Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...


message ends
________________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From JStrazza at yahoo.com  Fri Jul  4 12:28:39 2014
From: JStrazza at yahoo.com (John Strazzarino)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2014 12:28:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting on Sunday July 6th
Message-ID: <90AA4559-9E31-450D-91CD-B4FACB606B92@yahoo.com>

I'll be there, so come one come all.  

I'll have two computers for Eric and a laptop I'm selling.

See ya then,

Known




Sent from my iPad



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sat Jul  5 11:04:11 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 11:04:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Journal, TOR, TAILS now surveilled
Message-ID: <53B83E1B.6090104@dslextreme.com>

>From a pal on another mailing list.
Yes I looked at the original article before I forwarded.
This is another example of the NSA making enemies out of allies.
And now the relevant article.

The Linux Journal, a Linux user community website, has been flagged as
an "extremist forum" by the United States' National Security Agency
(NSA), while its users have been flagged as "extremists" under the
agency's XKeyscore program, according to leaked source code.

The source code, which was published this week by German public
broadcaster, ARD, also identified at least two German Tor Directory
Authority servers ? one in Berlin, the other in Nuremberg ? as being
under surveillance by the NSA.

The Tor Project is an independent, open-source anonymous software and
browsing network that directs traffic through its free, worldwide,
volunteer network to conceal users' locations and usage from surveillance.

...The NSA's XKeyscore program is a collection and analysis tool, and
was one of a number of surveillance programs revealed in the documents
leaked by former NSA contractor and whistleblower, Edward Snowden, last
year.

The XKeyscore source code rules cite the terms 'TAILs' or 'Amnesiac
Incogneto Live System', along with one of either 'linux', 'USB', 'CD',
'secure desktop', 'IRC', 'truecrypt', and 'Tor' as search items that
will mark and track a track the IP address of the person doing the search.

http://www.zdnet.com/nsa-targets-linux-journal-as-extremist-forum-report-7000031241/


	I am glad to be an extremist(philosophically) in such distinguished company
as Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson. et al, not to mention
the more knowledgeable members of this group.

	bliss

		 




From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  5 12:59:02 2014
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 12:59:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] thinking of moving to mutt. i use gmail. any
	advice/warnings/thoughts?
Message-ID: <CAGASG3xkY9NcjPAFMCa5QcpMf3dk9areuQSRcOUijhjk-eo96g@mail.gmail.com>

I'm much more comfortable with text based programs, and in my old age have
become increasingly frustrated with and am trying to rid my ilfe of GUI
programs.

I'm considering moving from Thunderbird to Mutt. I used Mutt back in
college and my fingers still remember the Mutt commands. Plus, I like the
speed of Mutt.

I've done a little bit of research and it seems that Mutt does support the
modern protocols I need: IMAP, SSL, etc. I've found a few guides on setting
up Mutt with Gmail on Linux and it looks like it shouldn't be too horrible.

Before I take the plunge, is there anything I should know that might make
me reconsider?


Some information about my email style:

* In addition to my personal Gmail account, both of my part time jobs use
Gmail so I have 3 Gmail accounts.

* Against all conventional wisdom I keep all my mail in my inbox until I've
done whatever I need to do with it. Then it gets archived. I don't
subdivide my archive - I found this takes too much time to create and
maintain. Instead, I depend on good search facilities. Thus, each of my
accounts really has only 2 folders: inbox and archive.

* I keep a local copy of all email on my laptop. I do a lot of work offline
and I depend on having access to both the inbox and archive for all 3 of my
accounts. On the other hand, I do not delete mail from the Gmail server,
since I sometimes depend on having access to it when I'm not at my laptop.

* I have a spare laptop at home. I intentionally keep a local copy of all
email there as well as a backup. I know that if I don't use it for a few
days, when I first log in it will take a while to download all the email it
missed, but I'm OK with that.

* My local email folders are in Thunderbird format. I believe I read
somewhere that converters exist, although I haven't verified that the Mutt
format (whatever that is)  is supported.
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From akkana at shallowsky.com  Sat Jul  5 19:54:52 2014
From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck)
Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 20:54:52 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] thinking of moving to mutt. i use gmail. any
 advice/warnings/thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASG3xkY9NcjPAFMCa5QcpMf3dk9areuQSRcOUijhjk-eo96g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASG3xkY9NcjPAFMCa5QcpMf3dk9areuQSRcOUijhjk-eo96g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140706025452.GB12712@shallowsky.com>

Michael Shiloh writes:
> I'm considering moving from Thunderbird to Mutt.

> * In addition to my personal Gmail account, both of my part time jobs use
> Gmail so I have 3 Gmail accounts.

When I worked for a company that used Gmail with a custom domain,
I set up a mutt profile to do imap to that account, and once I knew
how to do that I set up another mutt profile to check my own gmail
account. It was easy keeping them separate and worked fine.
I didn't try to go from one to the other in the same mutt session;
I ran mutt -F ~/.mutt/[profilename] separately for each server.

With some IMAP servers and some mutt versions I've had conniptions
trying to get mutt to keep track of new vs. read mail properly,
and went back to POP because it was too frustrating.
But I don't think gmail was one of the problematic servers.

> * Against all conventional wisdom I keep all my mail in my inbox until I've
> done whatever I need to do with it. Then it gets archived. I don't
> subdivide my archive - I found this takes too much time to create and
> maintain. Instead, I depend on good search facilities. Thus, each of my
> accounts really has only 2 folders: inbox and archive.

Mutt doesn't have the search facilities google has, but you can
always go to the website if you want to do a complicated search.
Or use a utility like grepmail locally, since you say you have a
local copy anyway.

> * I keep a local copy of all email on my laptop. I do a lot of work offline
> and I depend on having access to both the inbox and archive for all 3 of my
> accounts. On the other hand, I do not delete mail from the Gmail server,
> since I sometimes depend on having access to it when I'm not at my laptop.

How do you make the local copy?  I've used offlineimap (maildir) and
mailsync (mbox) to archive IMAP mail locally, but neither package
seemed particularly well maintained and there were some issues here
and there. That was a long time ago and the state of the art might
be better now.

If you're keeping a local copy anyway, you'll probably find that
mutt works better (certainly it will be a lot faster) on the local
copy instead of talking to the IMAP server. But then you need
something that can synchronize the changes back up to the server.

> * My local email folders are in Thunderbird format. I believe I read
> somewhere that converters exist, although I haven't verified that the Mutt
> format (whatever that is)  is supported.

Unless something has changed, Thunderbird uses use mbox, just like
mutt uses by default. You should be able to run mutt -f on any local
Thunderbird folders without doing anything extra. Thunderbird also
keeps some indexing files (.msf or something?) in parallel with the
mbox files, but those are just for T'bird to keep track of where you
left off in the folder -- mutt doesn't need that information.

If you want to use maildir (which might make sense given that your
inbox and archive files are probably huge), mutt can do that too,
but you'll have to use an mbox to maildir converter.

        ...Akkana



From alchaiken at gmail.com  Sun Jul  6 12:52:32 2014
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 21:52:32 +0200
Subject: [sf-lug] thinking of moving to mutt. i use gmail. any
	advice/warnings/thoughts?
Message-ID: <CAKoGHGWG-DmyYu6dqnOL3HP845tbRN7owwUG6DdyvstpcOH46w@mail.gmail.com>

Michael Shiloh asks:

> I've done a little bit of research and it seems that Mutt does support the
> modern protocols I need: IMAP, SSL, etc. I've found a few guides on setting
> up Mutt with Gmail on Linux and it looks like it shouldn't be too horrible.

I set up Mutt access to Gmail as a cron job that calls offlineimap.
Doing so was pretty easy as I followed instructions in "Silent
Delivery" by Florian Effenberger in the January 2012 issue of Linux
Magazine, p. 26.     I have multiple gmail accounts and offlineimap
handles all of them.    I can send you my notes if you want, but you
might want to buy the digital version of the magazine back issue too.

I highly recommend _Linux Magazine_, a German publication, btw.   I
end up acting on advice from almost every issue, and the columns by
Klaus Knopper and Charly Kuhnast are outstanding.   Zack Brown (IIRC)
also has a column about the most important discussion in LKML that
month, and the conference calendar includes events I wouldn't hear of
otherwise.   It's at linux-magazine.com.

HTH,
Alison

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)             {she-devel.com, exerciseforthereader.org}
Some work of noble note may yet be done.



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Jul  6 16:34:34 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 16:34:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting of today Sunday July 6, 2014
Message-ID: <53B9DD0A.6040500@dslextreme.com>

    I arrived about 10:40 and setup. 
    I tried booting with Mageia 4.1 KDE, this time the Hardware
detection system worked as it did not on release 4.0.
The hardware detection program works from the boot up
menu of the DVD.  It gives you a lot of information about
the system. After that since it was an Install only DVD I moved
to the 4.1 Live DVD.
    This worked well and I continued to test it for some time
and felt it was useful and a close approximation of Mandriva.
For those who do not know Mageia is a fork of Mandriva after
the company Mandriva collapsed and ceased to publish the
very-nice-for-unskillful-users, (like yours truly) distribution. 
It was one of the  earliest and best user friendly Linux systems
showing up long before the Ubuntu series which to my mind are
too fixed in their Desktop Environment arrangements.

    About 11:00 John S. showed up.  He brought along the
available Dell Latitude D520 with an Intel Core Duo at 1.6 GigaHertz
and a GiB of ram, and a 60 GiB hard disk and a CD-RW/DVD,
 15 inch 3 x 4 screen.  The  battery may need replacement soon
but it has the AC adapter.  Any one interested in such can find
his address on the mailing list or get in touch with me and I will
forward.  He was having a problem in that he had installed a
system and then forgotten the password but we got that fixed
before we finished.

    About 11:08 Ken Schaeffer showed up with his ASUS notebook
and an interesting purchase of a inexpensive SSDD of 238 GB.
When I got tired of trying the distributions I had set up on
DVDs I booted from the disk and it was a very fast experience.
Together the SSD and External SATA-USB3.0 case cost him less
 than $70. He had installed Ubuntu 14.04 to the SSD. It was of
course running Unity which I like less than Gnome.

    Besides the Mageia Live KDE I tried the Mageia 4.1 Gnome
which appears to be the latest version and while usable I
prefer KDE so much that I cannot give a fair opinion of this
late version of the Gnome Desktop Environment.
    Just as reminder this was done using my HP Pavilion
lPTP,15-N225NR, an AMD 4 core machine with Radeon graphics..
    Now when I was setting it up i tried a number of Linux
distributions and the first one I was able to test was Kubuntu 14.04
which has a KDE desktop environment over a Ubuntu core.  So
I installed that.
    Now since the last meeting  when my wireless worked well this
time when I finally booted up from my hard drive in it the wireless
 card could not be activated.  I have not been able to connect to
my wireless router at home so have had to tether myself to the
Ethernet cable.
    Additionally though it may have nothing to do with the
Kubuntu I find that neither the Hibernation nor the Sleep function
work reliably.  I have decided to seek further information on the
WiFi setup for Kubuntu but have decided at first opportunity
I will install Mageia 4.1 as I find it easier to use.  I already had
researched the Hibernation and Sleep function and did my
best to restore functionality.
    Now I have to say that in addition to the Mageia 4.1 tests
I tried a Live Fedora 20.1.  I saw unusual behavior in that as
un-attended while I discussed something with Ken without input
it booted right up. 
    I have to say that Fedora has this UEFI/EFI business down cold.
    On another boot-up it showed the DVD/CD R/W drive as UEFI
and in first place on the boot menu.

    Now I tried 3 systems in 4 configurations and every one of these
distributions were able to get on line with minimal work.  Sometime it
was as simple as adding the password to a requester and sometime
as in Mageia Control Center it took several pages of entering basic
material such as the sort of connection I was trying to make and
typing in the password.
    Fedora 20.1 Gnome x86_64.iso
    Mageia-4.1-LiveDVD-KDE4-x86_64-DVD.iso
    Mageia-4.1-LiveDVD-GNOME-x86_64-DVD.iso
    Mageia-4.1KDE x86_64.iso
    Oh and Ubuntu 14.04 on Ken's external USB 3.0 SSDD.

    Well you have all seen the notes that John S, expected to
meet with Jim to pass on a couple of towers for Eric, so I thought
that Jim was late by 12:10 and suggested John call him if he did
not want to take the towers home again.
    Jim was on the road.  As a matter of fact he had an early
errand to run in Hollister and was returning from there when we
called.
    Jim Stockford showed up finally, a bit tired wan and pale about
12:55 PM.  He ate a cheese sandwich.  And we took my packed- up
notebook to his car and cleared space for the towers in his trunk.
    John S, brought his car around and we moved the computers from
John's car to the trunk of Jim's car and parted with best wishes.
    Jim gave me a ride back to my home.
    I have to say that while only 4 people showed up besides the
wives of John S. and Ken that this was a good meeting. 

    Thanks for your attention!
   
    Bobbie Sellers



From shane at faultymonk.org  Mon Jul  7 09:49:45 2014
From: shane at faultymonk.org (Shane Tzen)
Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:49:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] thinking of moving to mutt. i use gmail. any
	advice/warnings/thoughts?
In-Reply-To: <CAGASG3xkY9NcjPAFMCa5QcpMf3dk9areuQSRcOUijhjk-eo96g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGASG3xkY9NcjPAFMCa5QcpMf3dk9areuQSRcOUijhjk-eo96g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+rfdCQJrDcZxvtZCDLkhVymLzqCT+T0Ua=ubX2P16X=mGJpCw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jul 5, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Michael Shiloh
<michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm much more comfortable with text based programs, and in my old age have
> become increasingly frustrated with and am trying to rid my ilfe of GUI
> programs.
>
> I'm considering moving from Thunderbird to Mutt. I used Mutt back in college
> and my fingers still remember the Mutt commands. Plus, I like the speed of
> Mutt.

Just to be contrarian, I'd like to point out that Mutt is a GUI. ;)

> Before I take the plunge, is there anything I should know that might make me
> reconsider?

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/6594?hl=en - Keyboard shortcuts for Gmail

Personally, I can't remember that last time I really am "using a
computer" without using a browser.  And as long as I'm using a
browser, I might as well be using gmail (actually think that it sucks
a whole lot less than most MUAs).



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul  8 00:00:41 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2014 00:00:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02
	(&	[www.]sf-lug.balug.org)
In-Reply-To: <20140628232030.25271wguxmg1184k@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20140628232030.25271wguxmg1184k@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20140708000041.17874y0x8yp6lhs8@webmail.rawbw.com>

Hmmmm...

$ TZ=GMT0 date --rfc-3339=seconds; (for tld in org com; do  
d=sf-lug."$tld"; echo "$d:"; 2>&1 whois -H "$d" | grep -i -e  
'^reg.*expir.*date:' -e '^registrant name' -e ' *name server: *[^ ]';  
done)
2014-07-08 06:45:26+00:00
sf-lug.org:
Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
Registrant Name:Pending Renewal or Deletion
Name Server:NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
Name Server:NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
sf-lug.com:
    Name Server: NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
    Name Server: NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2014-07-02T00:00:00Z
Registrant Name: Pending Renewal or Deletion
Name Server: NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
Name Server: NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
$

At first when I saw the updated Registry Expiry Date I was thinking it
had been handled, but alas, not all squared away yet as far as I can
tell.

And in case anyone may find it useful, I did, prior to expiration of
sf-lug.{org,com} create DNS entries for [www.]sf-lug.balug.org. for sf-lug,
uh "just in case"*, so, one can use as work-around, e.g.:
http://www.sf-lug.balug.org/
http://sf-lug.balug.org/
And of course webmaster and/or sysadmin of sf-lug can always
redirect (e.g. HTTP 301) from any potentially non-canonical to,
e.g. http://www.sf-lug.org/
... but that might be much more useful later, when DNS for
www.sf-lug.org. goes somewhere that's quite to one's liking.

*was earlier going to be in the midst of some upgrades:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2014q3/010562.html
and didn't want some domain expiration(s) to potentially make that
significantly more inconvenient/complex, so, dropped in some
"just in case" DNS entries - and have thus far left them there.

> From: "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
> Subject: Fwd: sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02
> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 23:20:30 -0700

> Hopefully this will be getting taken care of "soon enough",
> but I can't help but notice.
>
> May depend somewhat upon registrar, but in general letting a domain
> expire that one wishes to keep active is not a good thing.
> Also, not sure if domains renewed necessarily reflect the renewal
> "immediately" in the whois data, but I'd think that would show in
> relatively short order in any case.
>
> $ TZ=GMT0 date --rfc-3339=seconds; (for tld in org com; do  
> d=sf-lug."$tld"; echo "$d:"; 2>&1 whois -H "$d" | grep -i  
> '^reg.*expir.*date:'; done)
> 2014-06-29 06:13:53+00:00
> sf-lug.org:
> Registry Expiry Date: 2014-07-02T21:17:47Z
> sf-lug.com:
> Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2014-07-02T00:00:00Z
> $
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu -----
>     Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 03:23:46 -0700
>     From: "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
>  Subject: sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02
>       To: "Jim Stockford" <jim at well.com>
>
> Jim,
>
> FYI, don't forget, these should be taken care of soon:
>
> sf-lug domain expirations 2014-07-02:
> $ (for tld in org com; do d=sf-lug."$tld"; echo "$d:"; 2>&1 whois -H  
> "$d" | grep -i 'expir.*date:'; done)
> sf-lug.org:
> Registry Expiry Date: 2014-07-02T21:17:47Z
> sf-lug.com:
>    Expiration Date: 02-jul-2014
> Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2014-07-02T00:00:00Z
> $
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----




From alchaiken at gmail.com  Tue Jul  8 13:40:28 2014
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 22:40:28 +0200
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 102, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1404759602.11067.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1404759602.11067.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <CAKoGHGVkTeqiODpUW492EkSwOgKc9iDkSqq+mdHXe1rHFfROHA@mail.gmail.com>

Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org> opines:
> Personally, I can't remember that last time I really am "using a
> computer" without using a browser.  And as long as I'm using a
> browser, I might as well be using gmail (actually think that it sucks
> a whole lot less than most MUAs).

There are 3 reasons I use offlineimap:

0. Backup.   Some day the GOOG may lose my email or cut me off.   It's
important to have your own copy, if only for legal reasons.

1. Ironically, search.  Gmail search results don't include mailing
lists, which is where a significant fraction of content I'm searching
for originates.   Solution: download and grep!

2. Because mailing lists contain useful tech info, having offline
access really is handy fairly often.

-- Alison

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)             {she-devel.com, exerciseforthereader.org}
Some work of noble note may yet be done.



From shane at faultymonk.org  Tue Jul  8 14:11:45 2014
From: shane at faultymonk.org (Shane Tzen)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2014 14:11:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 102, Issue 5
In-Reply-To: <CAKoGHGVkTeqiODpUW492EkSwOgKc9iDkSqq+mdHXe1rHFfROHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1.1404759602.11067.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAKoGHGVkTeqiODpUW492EkSwOgKc9iDkSqq+mdHXe1rHFfROHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+rfdCRUqXQcZWc6Hun9ufq-15oVKRV3ZZxOJaE0zrRQV6451g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are 3 reasons I use offlineimap:
>
> 0. Backup.   Some day the GOOG may lose my email or cut me off.   It's
> important to have your own copy, if only for legal reasons.
>

http://goo.gl/0f1ae - you can also have gmail offline.  Also, nothing stops
you from using the gmail web UI and using something like fetchmail to
create an archive somewhere.


> 1. Ironically, search.  Gmail search results don't include mailing
> lists, which is where a significant fraction of content I'm searching
> for originates.   Solution: download and grep!
>

Not sure what you mean.  I specifically sub to various mailing lists (and
filter & label) so that I can search via gmail (faster and easier to read
threads than looking at online archives, etc.).  Basically, for any mailing
list that I care about, I sub specifically via email to exploit gmail's
search.


> 2. Because mailing lists contain useful tech info, having offline
> access really is handy fairly often.
>

0 & 1 addresses having offline access & search already.  But regardless,
needing an offline searchable archive and using gmail as a MUA aren't
mutually exclusive.  For me personally, if I'm offline (really offline),
I've got bigger problems than not being able to search through my mailing
list archives. =)
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From nbs at sonic.net  Wed Jul  9 00:14:30 2014
From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 00:14:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis,
	July 21: "Defensive computing: Information security for individuals"
Message-ID: <201407090714.s697EUmW020458@bolt.sonic.net>


The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting:

  Monday
  July 21, 2014
  7:00pm - 9:00pm

Presentation:
  "Defensive computing: Information security for individuals"

  presented by Adam Reiser

  This presentation will discuss security and privacy for individuals
  in the context of current real-world threats.  Topics will include the
  basic principles of information security, threat modeling, and practical
  approaches for developing a self-defense toolkit: minimizing tracking
  (cookies and click tracking), avoiding rogue hotspots, malware, and
  other threats to privacy and security.

About the speaker:

  Adam is a UC Berkeley graduate in physics and applied mathematics,
  currently working as a privacy and security consultant.


This meeting will be held at:

  Yolo County Public Library, Mary L. Stephens Davis Branch
  Blancard Meeting Room
  315 East 14th Street
  Davis, CA 95616


For more details on this meeting, visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/

For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/on.php

Facebook event:

  https://www.facebook.com/events/905252606167060/

------------
About LUGOD:
------------

  The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
  dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source
  and Free Software.

  Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers
  in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater
  Sacramento region.  Events are always free and open to the public.

  You can 'like' LUGOD on Facebook at:
  https://www.facebook.com/LinuxUsersGroupOfDavis
  join the LUGOD group on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lugod/
  and find us on LinkedIn at: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=35879

  Please visit our website for more details:  http://www.lugod.org/


-- 
Bill Kendrick
pr at lugod.org
Public Relations Officer
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/

(Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com )



From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Jul  9 00:51:40 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 00:51:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SF-LUG] [LSG] Linux Sys. Admin. 101 Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tdV+=iQhLhfaCQm+pXdkv2JLUF+P+CqPBm5Z11JxDAk-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tdV+=iQhLhfaCQm+pXdkv2JLUF+P+CqPBm5Z11JxDAk-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2te+zsxdyvXOD7RVnmCgOLOsjjB8wsOP+dxX-6wUPydN8A@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class.

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible

BART => Civic Center

MUNI rail => Van Ness Station

Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...


message ends
________________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 14 07:32:43 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 07:32:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG meeting TOMORROW Tu 2014-07-15 & other BALUG news
Message-ID: <20140714073243.15614rg3671kz7s4@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG meeting TOMORROW Tu 2014-07-15 & other BALUG news

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2014-07-15 TOMORROW Tu: BALUG meeting!
giveaways (CDs/DVDs, ...)
volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your experience & resume!)
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

For our 2014-07-15 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a
specific speaker/presentation lined up for this meeting, but that
doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings and
discussions.  Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too
late for us to announce or fully publicize the speaker (that's happened
at least twice in the past).  Got questions, answers, and/or opinions?
We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to
cover Linux and related topic areas.  Want to hear some interesting
discussions on LINUX and other topics?  Show up at the meeting, and
feel free to bring an agenda if you wish.  Want to help ensure BALUG
has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings?  Help refer
speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators.
Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to be had.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

   6:30pm Tuesday, July 15th, 2014 2014-07-15
   Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
   731 Grant Ave.
   San Francisco, CA 94108
   Easy Transit Access:  The MUNI 1 line stops half a block away.  For
     folks on BART, the MUNI 1 starts about a block from Embarcadero
     BART.  Trip planning:  http://www.511.org/
   Easy PARKING:
     Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
     http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
       cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
       family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
       also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

We typically have various giveaway items at BALUG meetings.  We'll
likely have at least the below plus additional items.

CDs/DVDs/ISOs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We may also be able to "burn" images per request or copy to USB flash,
etc.  Donations of blank or +-RW media, USB flash, or funding thereof,
also appreciated.  See the above URL for details (and the inventory
(qty.) of what we specifically have "burned" and available on-hand does
also frequently change).

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your resume/experience)

Not only can you do useful and cool stuff volunteering to help BALUG,
but it can also be a way to gain useful and practical experience, and
could also be something to add to or round out one's resume.

There a quite a variety of opportunities to help BALUG.  Come talk to us
at a meeting and/or drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
These opportunities may include, among other possibilities:
o assist on speaker coordination/procurement, etc.
o assist on publicity
o chief/assistant cat herder
o Linux Systems Administration (e.g. do/assist/learn, with/under some
   quite experienced and skilled Linux systems administrators).
o webmaster, assistant webmaster, designer, graphic artist
o archivist/history/retrieval/etc.
o and other various/miscellaneous tasks BALUG "ought" to be doing or
   would be good to do (feel free to suggest ideas!)

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Jul 14 07:44:54 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 07:44:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Lug meeting Monday, July 21, 2014
Message-ID: <53C3ECE6.7050100@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M. and
every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M. at the Cafe Enchante,
26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 6 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Today 11 July I got the Linux Pro magazine #164 for July 2014
     It has some interesting articles on Running Linux apps on Windows,
UEFI even with a Secure Boot environment, Practical Tips for moving
to an SSD,  and the story on Bitwig Studio, a musical tool in the Audio
  workstation besides a lot more.
     You can find out more at www.LinuxProMagazine.com. But I intend to
bring it to the next couple of meetings for those of us who as I do myself,
like to have the paper in my hand.
     The DVD for this month is double-sided with 64 bit versions on one side
and 32 bit versions on the other side, entitled "Ubuntu Monster Pack
it has 5 popular 'buntus, Ubuntu of course with the Unity Desktop, Ubuntu
Gnome with Gnome version 3.10, Kubuntu with KDE 4.13, Lubuntu with
Lxde and Xubuntu with the Xfce; all of which are based on the 14.04 release
Trusty Tahr.
     And of course I will be bringing along my new Notebook and I found a
transparent theme so that the tool bar icons seem to be floating. That
might be worth a sighting before I boot a few of the Monster Pack distros.

        Meeting times are strictly nominal which means that I try
to show up on time or actually ahead of time, in case I have
to trouble shoot my set-up.  We leave if no other  interested
parties show up up by 7:30 Monday nights or 12:30  PM on
  Sundays.  On the other hand if you bring an interesting problem
or discussion we may hang out until long after the nominal time
to end the meeting.

     Thanks for your attention

     Bobbie Sellers




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Jul 14 16:41:03 2014
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 16:41:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
Message-ID: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com and .org.
Any thoughts?

-- 
Christian Einfeldt
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From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Mon Jul 14 17:09:58 2014
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (GMail)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:09:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F9A61DAD-D7DE-479F-BAB8-057271D2D60E@gmail.com>

Well, since you said "Any thoughts?"  My first thought is.... "I wonder if that's the same domain name that was mentioned on those emails about a week, maybe more, ago?"



Sent from Dan.

> On Jul 14, 2014, at 16:41, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com and .org.  Any thoughts?
> 
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Jul 14 17:10:24 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:10:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53C47170.5020800@dslextreme.com>


On 07/14/2014 04:41 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com 
> <http://sf-lug.com> and .org.  Any thoughts?
>
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt

     Thanks for the note Christian.  I immediately called Jim and he 
will deal with it  in the
next day or so.

     Bobbie

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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jul 14 17:36:21 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 17:36:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com and .org.
> Any thoughts?

Micro-tutorial follows that may facilitate deeper analysis than 'The Web
site is down'.  


For any Web site to function and be reachable at a fully-qualified [DNS]
domain name (aka 'FQDN') URL, the following constituent parts must all be
working, and can be checked in order.

1.  Domain must be registered.  Check using 'whois'.*
2.  Authoritative nameservers must exist.  Check using 'whois'.
3.  Authoritative nameservers must resolve the domain, and in
    particular the Web server's FQDN.  Check using 'dig'.
4.  Routing to the server must exist.  Check using 'ping', 'traceroute',
    'tcptraceroute'.  (Each gives slightly different information.)
5.  Connectivity to the target server's TCP port 80**, the standard 
    server for HTTP, must work.  Check using dig or curl.
6.  If connected to validly and asked for the Web page, the Web
    server must return the site HTML (as opposed to, say, a 404
    Not Found response, 302 Permanently Moved response, etc.).
    Check using - obviously - a Web browser, or a variety of other
    things that can act like an HTTP client, including /usr/bin/telnet.

If any of those items doesn't work, then the ones that follow don't
matter because of fundamental failure at a lower level.


Let's apply that list to sf-lug.com, then to sf-lug.org:


sf-lug.org:
-----------
1.  Registration.

rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.com 
[...]
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
   Updated Date: 04-jul-2014
   Creation Date: 02-jul-2004
   Expiration Date: 02-jul-2015

In recent years registrars have been playing games with the vital
'Updated Date', 'Domain Status', and 'Expiration Date' field - among
others.  Reading the rest of the whois entry attentively, it's obvious
what happened.  July 2, 2014 was the expiration date - and the owner did
_not_ renew.

On July 2nd, the domain expired, and registrar Network Solutions
promptly added a (bogus) additional year.  They also changed the
displayed Registrant (owner) to omit the erstwhile owner - Jim
Stockford, if memory serves - and show themselves in that role, and they
changed the authoritatives nameservers from those of the erstwhile owner
to their 'domain parking' nameservers at NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
and NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM.

So:  Domain is currently 12 days past expiration.  Recovery prospects?
See footnote http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html#1
Quoting:

  In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying
  the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from
  anyone; others won't. 

As noted, steps 2-6 are academic at present, since the domain's in
limbo.  But y'all have until Monday, August 11, 2014 to recover at no
more than the cost of regular renewal.  (That's 40 days from expiration.)



sf-lug.org:

1.  Registration.

rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.org
[...]
Creation Date: 2004-07-02T21:17:47Z
Updated Date: 2014-07-04T10:15:26Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod


Gosh, same story.  Steps 2-6 omitted, ditto.



Ancillary comment:  Network Solutions sucks.  (GoDaddy blows.)
Lots of reasons, omitted here.



* MS-Windows lacks this tool along with the equally essential DNS tools 
host and dig.  There's an open-source set of the three from Cygwin.
MS-Windows people really ought to routinely install and use those
instead of using Web-based whois and using the extremely buggy and
antique nslookup tool instead of dig/host.

8* Rarely, a Web server may be configured to be reachable on a different
port, most often 8080, thus the URL pattern http://www.example.com:8080/ .

-- 
Cheers,                           "So, a Degas painting walks into a barre...."
Rick Moen                                                 @behindyourback
rick at linuxmafia.com                                    
McQ! (4x80)       



From bloonoise at gmail.com  Mon Jul 14 20:29:10 2014
From: bloonoise at gmail.com (bloonoise)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 20:29:10 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] FCC
Message-ID: <53C4A006.6080604@gmail.com>

Net neutrality, the principle that Internet service providers (ISPs) 
treat all data that travels over their networks equally, is important to 
me because without itIt is arbitrary and essentially censorship. The 
internet works beautifully and has been for years for reason relating to 
neutral
A pay-?to-play Internet worries me becauseIt is exploiting the air the 
we breath in for profit. It will only benefit monopolies
The internet has been a boon for mankind since its beginning undeniably 
for reason directly related to so-called neutrality. It stands to reason 
eventually large corporation would want to exploit it directly and tap 
into it for sheer greed and profit. The FCC should be protecting us from 
such prioritization and preferential treatment. It is entirely selfish 
and beyond reproach that the FCC chair is as corrupted as he deems fit. 
The only benefit would be for the very few(rich). It would be only the 
beginning to what I see you trying to do. Regardless it is morally wrong 
and it is corrupting freedom whether or not the FCC Chair chooses to see 
that. You are suggesting to exploit the air we speak in.
You are far too small a man to fill your shoes, sir. If anything the 
country needs greater bandwidth free of bundles which translates to 
better infrastructure It is clear to me what Mr Wheelers priorities are 
and I will fight him beyond the end..

please everyone do your part to stop this abomination.......
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From jim at well.com  Mon Jul 14 22:09:23 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:09:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53C4B783.2090900@well.com>



     My tho'ts are that I've let this slip.
     I hate Network Solutions because of
their slimy email tactics and hoped to
escape from them during the grace
period (which has not ended).
     Now I see that I have to pay them
for another year, which has got me
burning.
     My guess is that netsol has un-dns'd
sf-lug.{org,com}, and
http://208.96.15.252/
suggests I'm right.


On 07/14/2014 04:41 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com 
> <http://sf-lug.com> and .org.  Any thoughts?
>
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From jim at well.com  Mon Jul 14 22:09:59 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:09:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <F9A61DAD-D7DE-479F-BAB8-057271D2D60E@gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F9A61DAD-D7DE-479F-BAB8-057271D2D60E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53C4B7A7.70505@well.com>


yes

On 07/14/2014 05:09 PM, GMail wrote:
> Well, since you said "Any thoughts?"  My first thought is.... "I 
> wonder if that's the same domain name that was mentioned on those 
> emails about a week, maybe more, ago?"
>
>
>
> Sent from Dan.
>
> On Jul 14, 2014, at 16:41, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com 
> <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com 
>> <http://sf-lug.com> and .org.  Any thoughts?
>>
>> -- 
>> Christian Einfeldt
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From jim at well.com  Mon Jul 14 22:11:55 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:11:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <53C4B81B.10009@well.com>


On 07/14/2014 05:36 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>
>> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com and .org.
>> Any thoughts?
> Micro-tutorial follows that may facilitate deeper analysis than 'The Web
> site is down'.
JS: http://208.96.15.252 might help with the tutorial
> For any Web site to function and be reachable at a fully-qualified [DNS]
> domain name (aka 'FQDN') URL, the following constituent parts must all be
> working, and can be checked in order.
>
> 1.  Domain must be registered.  Check using 'whois'.*
> 2.  Authoritative nameservers must exist.  Check using 'whois'.
> 3.  Authoritative nameservers must resolve the domain, and in
>      particular the Web server's FQDN.  Check using 'dig'.
> 4.  Routing to the server must exist.  Check using 'ping', 'traceroute',
>      'tcptraceroute'.  (Each gives slightly different information.)
> 5.  Connectivity to the target server's TCP port 80**, the standard
>      server for HTTP, must work.  Check using dig or curl.
> 6.  If connected to validly and asked for the Web page, the Web
>      server must return the site HTML (as opposed to, say, a 404
>      Not Found response, 302 Permanently Moved response, etc.).
>      Check using - obviously - a Web browser, or a variety of other
>      things that can act like an HTTP client, including /usr/bin/telnet.
>
> If any of those items doesn't work, then the ones that follow don't
> matter because of fundamental failure at a lower level.
>
>
> Let's apply that list to sf-lug.com, then to sf-lug.org:
>
>
> sf-lug.org:
> -----------
> 1.  Registration.
>
> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.com
> [...]
> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
>     Updated Date: 04-jul-2014
>     Creation Date: 02-jul-2004
>     Expiration Date: 02-jul-2015
>
> In recent years registrars have been playing games with the vital
> 'Updated Date', 'Domain Status', and 'Expiration Date' field - among
> others.  Reading the rest of the whois entry attentively, it's obvious
> what happened.  July 2, 2014 was the expiration date - and the owner did
> _not_ renew.
>
> On July 2nd, the domain expired, and registrar Network Solutions
> promptly added a (bogus) additional year.  They also changed the
> displayed Registrant (owner) to omit the erstwhile owner - Jim
> Stockford, if memory serves - and show themselves in that role, and they
> changed the authoritatives nameservers from those of the erstwhile owner
> to their 'domain parking' nameservers at NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
> and NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM.
>
> So:  Domain is currently 12 days past expiration.  Recovery prospects?
> See footnote http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html#1
> Quoting:
>
>    In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying
>    the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from
>    anyone; others won't.
>
> As noted, steps 2-6 are academic at present, since the domain's in
> limbo.  But y'all have until Monday, August 11, 2014 to recover at no
> more than the cost of regular renewal.  (That's 40 days from expiration.)
>
>
>
> sf-lug.org:
>
> 1.  Registration.
>
> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.org
> [...]
> Creation Date: 2004-07-02T21:17:47Z
> Updated Date: 2014-07-04T10:15:26Z
> Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
> Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod
>
>
> Gosh, same story.  Steps 2-6 omitted, ditto.
>
>
>
> Ancillary comment:  Network Solutions sucks.  (GoDaddy blows.)
> Lots of reasons, omitted here.
>
>
>
> * MS-Windows lacks this tool along with the equally essential DNS tools
> host and dig.  There's an open-source set of the three from Cygwin.
> MS-Windows people really ought to routinely install and use those
> instead of using Web-based whois and using the extremely buggy and
> antique nslookup tool instead of dig/host.
>
> 8* Rarely, a Web server may be configured to be reachable on a different
> port, most often 8080, thus the URL pattern http://www.example.com:8080/ .
>




From maestro415 at gmail.com  Mon Jul 14 22:52:22 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 22:52:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tca91b6UoYp3J+vEVh9xCoZAnjgNH5aw0QeVMbe9nd5Vg@mail.gmail.com>

very kewl rick...
thanks...


message ends.
________________

On Monday, July 14, 2014, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>
>> I noticed that the sf lug website is down.  I went to sf-lug.com and
.org.
>> Any thoughts?
>
> Micro-tutorial follows that may facilitate deeper analysis than 'The Web
> site is down'.
>
>
> For any Web site to function and be reachable at a fully-qualified [DNS]
> domain name (aka 'FQDN') URL, the following constituent parts must all be
> working, and can be checked in order.
>
> 1.  Domain must be registered.  Check using 'whois'.*
> 2.  Authoritative nameservers must exist.  Check using 'whois'.
> 3.  Authoritative nameservers must resolve the domain, and in
>     particular the Web server's FQDN.  Check using 'dig'.
> 4.  Routing to the server must exist.  Check using 'ping', 'traceroute',
>     'tcptraceroute'.  (Each gives slightly different information.)
> 5.  Connectivity to the target server's TCP port 80**, the standard
>     server for HTTP, must work.  Check using dig or curl.
> 6.  If connected to validly and asked for the Web page, the Web
>     server must return the site HTML (as opposed to, say, a 404
>     Not Found response, 302 Permanently Moved response, etc.).
>     Check using - obviously - a Web browser, or a variety of other
>     things that can act like an HTTP client, including /usr/bin/telnet.
>
> If any of those items doesn't work, then the ones that follow don't
> matter because of fundamental failure at a lower level.
>
>
> Let's apply that list to sf-lug.com, then to sf-lug.org:
>
>
> sf-lug.org:
> -----------
> 1.  Registration.
>
> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.com
> [...]
> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
>    Updated Date: 04-jul-2014
>    Creation Date: 02-jul-2004
>    Expiration Date: 02-jul-2015
>
> In recent years registrars have been playing games with the vital
> 'Updated Date', 'Domain Status', and 'Expiration Date' field - among
> others.  Reading the rest of the whois entry attentively, it's obvious
> what happened.  July 2, 2014 was the expiration date - and the owner did
> _not_ renew.
>
> On July 2nd, the domain expired, and registrar Network Solutions
> promptly added a (bogus) additional year.  They also changed the
> displayed Registrant (owner) to omit the erstwhile owner - Jim
> Stockford, if memory serves - and show themselves in that role, and they
> changed the authoritatives nameservers from those of the erstwhile owner
> to their 'domain parking' nameservers at NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
> and NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM.
>
> So:  Domain is currently 12 days past expiration.  Recovery prospects?
> See footnote http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html#1
> Quoting:
>
>   In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying
>   the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from
>   anyone; others won't.
>
> As noted, steps 2-6 are academic at present, since the domain's in
> limbo.  But y'all have until Monday, August 11, 2014 to recover at no
> more than the cost of regular renewal.  (That's 40 days from expiration.)
>
>
>
> sf-lug.org:
>
> 1.  Registration.
>
> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.org
> [...]
> Creation Date: 2004-07-02T21:17:47Z
> Updated Date: 2014-07-04T10:15:26Z
> Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
> Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod
>
>
> Gosh, same story.  Steps 2-6 omitted, ditto.
>
>
>
> Ancillary comment:  Network Solutions sucks.  (GoDaddy blows.)
> Lots of reasons, omitted here.
>
>
>
> * MS-Windows lacks this tool along with the equally essential DNS tools
> host and dig.  There's an open-source set of the three from Cygwin.
> MS-Windows people really ought to routinely install and use those
> instead of using Web-based whois and using the extremely buggy and
> antique nslookup tool instead of dig/host.
>
> 8* Rarely, a Web server may be configured to be reachable on a different
> port, most often 8080, thus the URL pattern http://www.example.com:8080/ .
>
> --
> Cheers,                           "So, a Degas painting walks into a
barre...."
> Rick Moen                                                 @behindyourback
> rick at linuxmafia.com
> McQ! (4x80)
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>

-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jul 14 23:12:29 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 23:12:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <53C4B81B.10009@well.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com> <53C4B81B.10009@well.com>
Message-ID: <20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> JS: http://208.96.15.252 might help with the tutorial

Hi, Jim!  Sorry to hear about the domain woes.  Here's something I just
created that you're welcome to use, if & whenever you wish:

  linuxmafia:~# grep sf-lug /etc/bind/linuxmafia.com.zone 
  sf-lug          IN      A       208.96.15.252
  linuxmafia:~# rndc reload linuxmafia.com
  zone reload queued
  linuxmafia:~# dig sf-lug.linuxmafia.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +short
  208.96.15.252
  linuxmafia:~# 

That is:  FQDN 'sf-lug.linuxmafia.com' now points to SF-LUG's Web server
IP at ServePath - for your convenience if/when you wish to use it.


Some opinions and information about registrars:

1.  IIRC, every registrar prohibits transferring a domain at certain
times.  I think those include the first 60 days after initial
registration and the 60 days immediately following a transfer.

2.  Even though I no of no rule prohibiting transferring a domain away
from an undesired registrar shortly before scheduled expiration, in my
experience registrars become curiously accident-prone when you tell them
you're taking your business elsewhere.  The last few weeks before a
renewal/expiration date is the worst possible time for your incumbent
registrar to get motivated to become clumsy and indifferent to your
well-being.  Think about it.

Therefore, I urge _never_ attempting anything in the final month of a
domain you wish to keep other than paying The Man.  Carry out anything
else _after_ your renewal goes through.


3.  I'm betting you don't know this, as I keep encountering domain
owners who don't know:  _Every_ registrar I've ever encountered grants
domain-duration credit equal to time remaining on domains you seek to
transfer in.

This means you lose nothing by submitting your transfer request whenever
convenient, including 24 hours after renewal at your incumbent
registrar.

Let's say, for example, tomorrow you pay NetSol 2 * $35 to renew the two
expired domains.[1]  Ka-ching!  Renewal goes through and
sf-lug.{com|org} now show a new 2015-07-15 expiration date, with you as
the registrant and the correct authoritative nameservers again.  Now,
you might think:  'Damn, I've just prepaid 12 months, so now I have to
wait almost a year again to get my money's worth before attempting
transfer.

No, not so at all.  If you initiate transfer to a different registrar
immediately, paying for one year per domain at the new registrar, the
new registrar will let you carry over your NetSol 12 months plus the 
year you paid for at the new registrar.  

I hear people making the error of thinking they have an incentive to
wait after renewal 'to get your money's worth' all the time, and it's
always simply wrong.


FWIW, commodity pricing for com/org is US $12-15 per domain.  My
opinion:  NetSol prices are ridiculous, and you're paying a premium for
worse than average service.  I transferred away from NetSol ASAP back in
1998, and never looked back.


[1] Upthread, I said you can renew a domain in the first 40 days after
expiration for no more than the regular cost of renewal, but that's not
necessarily true for all registrars.  It's certainly true at the
overwhelming majority of them, but I can't exclude the possibility that
NetSol is an exception.





> >For any Web site to function and be reachable at a fully-qualified [DNS]
> >domain name (aka 'FQDN') URL, the following constituent parts must all be
> >working, and can be checked in order.
> >
> >1.  Domain must be registered.  Check using 'whois'.*
> >2.  Authoritative nameservers must exist.  Check using 'whois'.
> >3.  Authoritative nameservers must resolve the domain, and in
> >     particular the Web server's FQDN.  Check using 'dig'.
> >4.  Routing to the server must exist.  Check using 'ping', 'traceroute',
> >     'tcptraceroute'.  (Each gives slightly different information.)
> >5.  Connectivity to the target server's TCP port 80**, the standard
> >     server for HTTP, must work.  Check using dig or curl.
> >6.  If connected to validly and asked for the Web page, the Web
> >     server must return the site HTML (as opposed to, say, a 404
> >     Not Found response, 302 Permanently Moved response, etc.).
> >     Check using - obviously - a Web browser, or a variety of other
> >     things that can act like an HTTP client, including /usr/bin/telnet.
> >
> >If any of those items doesn't work, then the ones that follow don't
> >matter because of fundamental failure at a lower level.
> >
> >
> >Let's apply that list to sf-lug.com, then to sf-lug.org:
> >
> >
> >sf-lug.org:
> >-----------
> >1.  Registration.
> >
> >rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.com
> >[...]
> >Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
> >    Updated Date: 04-jul-2014
> >    Creation Date: 02-jul-2004
> >    Expiration Date: 02-jul-2015
> >
> >In recent years registrars have been playing games with the vital
> >'Updated Date', 'Domain Status', and 'Expiration Date' field - among
> >others.  Reading the rest of the whois entry attentively, it's obvious
> >what happened.  July 2, 2014 was the expiration date - and the owner did
> >_not_ renew.
> >
> >On July 2nd, the domain expired, and registrar Network Solutions
> >promptly added a (bogus) additional year.  They also changed the
> >displayed Registrant (owner) to omit the erstwhile owner - Jim
> >Stockford, if memory serves - and show themselves in that role, and they
> >changed the authoritatives nameservers from those of the erstwhile owner
> >to their 'domain parking' nameservers at NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
> >and NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM.
> >
> >So:  Domain is currently 12 days past expiration.  Recovery prospects?
> >See footnote http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html#1
> >Quoting:
> >
> >   In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying
> >   the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from
> >   anyone; others won't.
> >
> >As noted, steps 2-6 are academic at present, since the domain's in
> >limbo.  But y'all have until Monday, August 11, 2014 to recover at no
> >more than the cost of regular renewal.  (That's 40 days from expiration.)
> >
> >
> >
> >sf-lug.org:
> >
> >1.  Registration.
> >
> >rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.org
> >[...]
> >Creation Date: 2004-07-02T21:17:47Z
> >Updated Date: 2014-07-04T10:15:26Z
> >Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
> >Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
> >Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod
> >
> >
> >Gosh, same story.  Steps 2-6 omitted, ditto.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ancillary comment:  Network Solutions sucks.  (GoDaddy blows.)
> >Lots of reasons, omitted here.
> >
> >
> >
> >* MS-Windows lacks this tool along with the equally essential DNS tools
> >host and dig.  There's an open-source set of the three from Cygwin.
> >MS-Windows people really ought to routinely install and use those
> >instead of using Web-based whois and using the extremely buggy and
> >antique nslookup tool instead of dig/host.
> >
> >8* Rarely, a Web server may be configured to be reachable on a different
> >port, most often 8080, thus the URL pattern http://www.example.com:8080/ .
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jul 14 23:27:41 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2014 23:27:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tca91b6UoYp3J+vEVh9xCoZAnjgNH5aw0QeVMbe9nd5Vg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
	<CANe-2tca91b6UoYp3J+vEVh9xCoZAnjgNH5aw0QeVMbe9nd5Vg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140715062741.GY31822@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting maestro (maestro415 at gmail.com):

> very kewl rick...
> thanks...

You're welcome.

It's funny.  Anyone who's dealt with Internet users has about a 5 minute
period when they naively take at face value the phrase 'The Web site
is down' - e.g., spending time seeing if the Web daemon was stopped,
or someone powered down the server machine, and so on.

About five minutes into the first such encounter, the listener realises
that the speaker merely meant 'The site didn't load in my Web browser, I
have absolutely no idea why, I've done zero analysis, and odds of my
doing it are slim to none.'

Ooh, just re-found it!  Here's the famous 'The Web site is down' video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGljemfwUE




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jul 15 00:20:11 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:20:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com> <53C4B81B.10009@well.com>
	<20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20140715072011.GA6455@linuxmafia.com>

Just completing a thought I pursued _almost_ to the end, but not quite:

> 3.  I'm betting you don't know this, as I keep encountering domain
> owners who don't know:  _Every_ registrar I've ever encountered grants
> domain-duration credit equal to time remaining on domains you seek to
> transfer in.
> 
> This means you lose nothing by submitting your transfer request whenever
> convenient, including 24 hours after renewal at your incumbent
> registrar.

...and, speaking more generally, that means you really cannot lose by
adding additional time to any domain you seriously intend to keep -
because all time you add to a domain remains portable.  Decide to move
the domain?  No problem, the full time remaining goes with it to the new
registrar.

I do follow my own advice:

$ whois linuxmafia.com 
[...]
   Updated Date: 05-may-2014
   Creation Date: 18-jul-1998
   Expiration Date: 17-jul-2018

Paid up _four_ years in advance.  Not just one.  Think of that as a buffer
against mishap.

Unless one is utterly cash-strapped, I maintain that the usual routine
of waiting until just before expiration and then renewing for one year
is foolish - and increases the risk of accidental expiration
significantly, for no real gain.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jul 15 00:36:47 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:36:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <53C4B783.2090900@well.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<53C4B783.2090900@well.com>
Message-ID: <20140715073647.GU25067@linuxmafia.com>

Again, Jim, my sympathies over the domain problems.

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> My guess is that netsol has un-dns'd sf-lug.{org,com}, and
> http://208.96.15.252/ suggests I'm right.

No need to guess.

Upthread I laid out an explicit, detailed set of six steps to isolate
what's wrong when 'the Web site is down', i.e., when you have good
reason to think something is broken on the service-provision end[1], and
want to determine what.

1.  Domain registered?
2.  Auth nameservers listed in the registration?
3.  Auth nameservice works?
4.  Routing to the server works?
5.  Connectivity to the Web server IP & port works?
6.  Web daemon returns site HTML when queried on that IP & port?

Each depends on the one before it, so you can just use that rundown as a
diagnostic checklist.


[1] This doesn't include user-end problems, e.g., user needs to clear
cache and cookies, has a hosed proprietary-OS state and should reboot, etc.




From jim at well.com  Tue Jul 15 07:42:15 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:42:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
	<53C4B81B.10009@well.com> <20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <53C53DC7.3060505@well.com>


     As always, thank you, thank you!

     All of your surmises about me are right.
I had tho't I'd let the contract expire and
then switch to Joker (my choice as of the
last eight years--I'm interested in any
alternate suggestions).
     I've taken your advice to heart and to
my schedule.
more thanks


On 07/14/2014 11:12 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>> JS: http://208.96.15.252 might help with the tutorial
> Hi, Jim!  Sorry to hear about the domain woes.  Here's something I just
> created that you're welcome to use, if & whenever you wish:
>
>    linuxmafia:~# grep sf-lug /etc/bind/linuxmafia.com.zone
>    sf-lug          IN      A       208.96.15.252
>    linuxmafia:~# rndc reload linuxmafia.com
>    zone reload queued
>    linuxmafia:~# dig sf-lug.linuxmafia.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +short
>    208.96.15.252
>    linuxmafia:~#
>
> That is:  FQDN 'sf-lug.linuxmafia.com' now points to SF-LUG's Web server
> IP at ServePath - for your convenience if/when you wish to use it.
>
>
> Some opinions and information about registrars:
>
> 1.  IIRC, every registrar prohibits transferring a domain at certain
> times.  I think those include the first 60 days after initial
> registration and the 60 days immediately following a transfer.
>
> 2.  Even though I no of no rule prohibiting transferring a domain away
> from an undesired registrar shortly before scheduled expiration, in my
> experience registrars become curiously accident-prone when you tell them
> you're taking your business elsewhere.  The last few weeks before a
> renewal/expiration date is the worst possible time for your incumbent
> registrar to get motivated to become clumsy and indifferent to your
> well-being.  Think about it.
>
> Therefore, I urge _never_ attempting anything in the final month of a
> domain you wish to keep other than paying The Man.  Carry out anything
> else _after_ your renewal goes through.
>
>
> 3.  I'm betting you don't know this, as I keep encountering domain
> owners who don't know:  _Every_ registrar I've ever encountered grants
> domain-duration credit equal to time remaining on domains you seek to
> transfer in.
>
> This means you lose nothing by submitting your transfer request whenever
> convenient, including 24 hours after renewal at your incumbent
> registrar.
>
> Let's say, for example, tomorrow you pay NetSol 2 * $35 to renew the two
> expired domains.[1]  Ka-ching!  Renewal goes through and
> sf-lug.{com|org} now show a new 2015-07-15 expiration date, with you as
> the registrant and the correct authoritative nameservers again.  Now,
> you might think:  'Damn, I've just prepaid 12 months, so now I have to
> wait almost a year again to get my money's worth before attempting
> transfer.
>
> No, not so at all.  If you initiate transfer to a different registrar
> immediately, paying for one year per domain at the new registrar, the
> new registrar will let you carry over your NetSol 12 months plus the
> year you paid for at the new registrar.
>
> I hear people making the error of thinking they have an incentive to
> wait after renewal 'to get your money's worth' all the time, and it's
> always simply wrong.
>
>
> FWIW, commodity pricing for com/org is US $12-15 per domain.  My
> opinion:  NetSol prices are ridiculous, and you're paying a premium for
> worse than average service.  I transferred away from NetSol ASAP back in
> 1998, and never looked back.
>
>
> [1] Upthread, I said you can renew a domain in the first 40 days after
> expiration for no more than the regular cost of renewal, but that's not
> necessarily true for all registrars.  It's certainly true at the
> overwhelming majority of them, but I can't exclude the possibility that
> NetSol is an exception.
>
>
>
>
>
>>> For any Web site to function and be reachable at a fully-qualified [DNS]
>>> domain name (aka 'FQDN') URL, the following constituent parts must all be
>>> working, and can be checked in order.
>>>
>>> 1.  Domain must be registered.  Check using 'whois'.*
>>> 2.  Authoritative nameservers must exist.  Check using 'whois'.
>>> 3.  Authoritative nameservers must resolve the domain, and in
>>>      particular the Web server's FQDN.  Check using 'dig'.
>>> 4.  Routing to the server must exist.  Check using 'ping', 'traceroute',
>>>      'tcptraceroute'.  (Each gives slightly different information.)
>>> 5.  Connectivity to the target server's TCP port 80**, the standard
>>>      server for HTTP, must work.  Check using dig or curl.
>>> 6.  If connected to validly and asked for the Web page, the Web
>>>      server must return the site HTML (as opposed to, say, a 404
>>>      Not Found response, 302 Permanently Moved response, etc.).
>>>      Check using - obviously - a Web browser, or a variety of other
>>>      things that can act like an HTTP client, including /usr/bin/telnet.
>>>
>>> If any of those items doesn't work, then the ones that follow don't
>>> matter because of fundamental failure at a lower level.
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's apply that list to sf-lug.com, then to sf-lug.org:
>>>
>>>
>>> sf-lug.org:
>>> -----------
>>> 1.  Registration.
>>>
>>> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.com
>>> [...]
>>> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
>>>     Updated Date: 04-jul-2014
>>>     Creation Date: 02-jul-2004
>>>     Expiration Date: 02-jul-2015
>>>
>>> In recent years registrars have been playing games with the vital
>>> 'Updated Date', 'Domain Status', and 'Expiration Date' field - among
>>> others.  Reading the rest of the whois entry attentively, it's obvious
>>> what happened.  July 2, 2014 was the expiration date - and the owner did
>>> _not_ renew.
>>>
>>> On July 2nd, the domain expired, and registrar Network Solutions
>>> promptly added a (bogus) additional year.  They also changed the
>>> displayed Registrant (owner) to omit the erstwhile owner - Jim
>>> Stockford, if memory serves - and show themselves in that role, and they
>>> changed the authoritatives nameservers from those of the erstwhile owner
>>> to their 'domain parking' nameservers at NS1.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM
>>> and NS2.PENDINGRENEWALDELETION.COM.
>>>
>>> So:  Domain is currently 12 days past expiration.  Recovery prospects?
>>> See footnote http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html#1
>>> Quoting:
>>>
>>>    In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying
>>>    the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from
>>>    anyone; others won't.
>>>
>>> As noted, steps 2-6 are academic at present, since the domain's in
>>> limbo.  But y'all have until Monday, August 11, 2014 to recover at no
>>> more than the cost of regular renewal.  (That's 40 days from expiration.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sf-lug.org:
>>>
>>> 1.  Registration.
>>>
>>> rmoen at borgia:~$ whois sf-lug.org
>>> [...]
>>> Creation Date: 2004-07-02T21:17:47Z
>>> Updated Date: 2014-07-04T10:15:26Z
>>> Registry Expiry Date: 2015-07-02T21:17:47Z
>>> Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
>>> Domain Status: autoRenewPeriod
>>>
>>>
>>> Gosh, same story.  Steps 2-6 omitted, ditto.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ancillary comment:  Network Solutions sucks.  (GoDaddy blows.)
>>> Lots of reasons, omitted here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * MS-Windows lacks this tool along with the equally essential DNS tools
>>> host and dig.  There's an open-source set of the three from Cygwin.
>>> MS-Windows people really ought to routinely install and use those
>>> instead of using Web-based whois and using the extremely buggy and
>>> antique nslookup tool instead of dig/host.
>>>
>>> 8* Rarely, a Web server may be configured to be reachable on a different
>>> port, most often 8080, thus the URL pattern http://www.example.com:8080/ .
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>




From jim at well.com  Tue Jul 15 07:44:05 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:44:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <20140715072011.GA6455@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com>
	<53C4B81B.10009@well.com>	<20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com>
	<20140715072011.GA6455@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <53C53E35.2050906@well.com>


     I agree and behave so with all registrars
except one. Mainly I buy ahead so's to protect
the domain name in the case I get hit by the
beer truck.



On 07/15/2014 12:20 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Just completing a thought I pursued _almost_ to the end, but not quite:
>
>> 3.  I'm betting you don't know this, as I keep encountering domain
>> owners who don't know:  _Every_ registrar I've ever encountered grants
>> domain-duration credit equal to time remaining on domains you seek to
>> transfer in.
>>
>> This means you lose nothing by submitting your transfer request whenever
>> convenient, including 24 hours after renewal at your incumbent
>> registrar.
> ...and, speaking more generally, that means you really cannot lose by
> adding additional time to any domain you seriously intend to keep -
> because all time you add to a domain remains portable.  Decide to move
> the domain?  No problem, the full time remaining goes with it to the new
> registrar.
>
> I do follow my own advice:
>
> $ whois linuxmafia.com
> [...]
>     Updated Date: 05-may-2014
>     Creation Date: 18-jul-1998
>     Expiration Date: 17-jul-2018
>
> Paid up _four_ years in advance.  Not just one.  Think of that as a buffer
> against mishap.
>
> Unless one is utterly cash-strapped, I maintain that the usual routine
> of waiting until just before expiration and then renewing for one year
> is foolish - and increases the risk of accidental expiration
> significantly, for no real gain.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 15 07:55:04 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:55:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] REMINDER: BALUG meeting TODAY!: Tu 2014-07-15 & other
	BALUG news
Message-ID: <20140715075504.103562qs1ptm726g@webmail.rawbw.com>

REMINDER: BALUG meeting TODAY!: Tu 2014-07-15 & other BALUG news

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2014-07-15 TODAY Tu: BALUG meeting!
giveaways (CDs/DVDs, ...)
volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your experience & resume!)
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

For our 2014-07-15 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a
specific speaker/presentation lined up for this meeting, but that
doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings and
discussions.  Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too
late for us to announce or fully publicize the speaker (that's happened
at least twice in the past).  Got questions, answers, and/or opinions?
We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to
cover Linux and related topic areas.  Want to hear some interesting
discussions on LINUX and other topics?  Show up at the meeting, and
feel free to bring an agenda if you wish.  Want to help ensure BALUG
has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings?  Help refer
speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators.
Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to be had.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

   6:30pm Tuesday, July 15th, 2014 2014-07-15
   Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
   731 Grant Ave.
   San Francisco, CA 94108
   Easy Transit Access:  The MUNI 1 line stops half a block away.  For
     folks on BART, the MUNI 1 starts about a block from Embarcadero
     BART.  Trip planning:  http://www.511.org/
   Easy PARKING:
     Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
     http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
       cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
       family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
       also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

We typically have various giveaway items at BALUG meetings.  We'll
likely have at least the below plus additional items.

CDs/DVDs/ISOs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We may also be able to "burn" images per request or copy to USB flash,
etc.  Donations of blank or +-RW media, USB flash, or funding thereof,
also appreciated.  See the above URL for details (and the inventory
(qty.) of what we specifically have "burned" and available on-hand does
also frequently change).

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your resume/experience)

Not only can you do useful and cool stuff volunteering to help BALUG,
but it can also be a way to gain useful and practical experience, and
could also be something to add to or round out one's resume.

There a quite a variety of opportunities to help BALUG.  Come talk to us
at a meeting and/or drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
These opportunities may include, among other possibilities:
o assist on speaker coordination/procurement, etc.
o assist on publicity
o chief/assistant cat herder
o Linux Systems Administration (e.g. do/assist/learn, with/under some
   quite experienced and skilled Linux systems administrators).
o webmaster, assistant webmaster, designer, graphic artist
o archivist/history/retrieval/etc.
o and other various/miscellaneous tasks BALUG "ought" to be doing or
   would be good to do (feel free to suggest ideas!)

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jul 15 08:43:05 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 08:43:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug website?
In-Reply-To: <53C53DC7.3060505@well.com>
References: <CAJdae4ouno6u5qwqVLSQhYFQkDjbAitFu=nu8OhJRSGpdqx5JQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140715003621.GS25067@linuxmafia.com> <53C4B81B.10009@well.com>
	<20140715061229.GT25067@linuxmafia.com> <53C53DC7.3060505@well.com>
Message-ID: <20140715154305.GV25067@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> 
>     As always, thank you, thank you!
> 
>     All of your surmises about me are right.
> I had tho't I'd let the contract expire and
> then switch to Joker (my choice as of the
> last eight years--I'm interested in any
> alternate suggestions).

Joker.com's one of the ones I like.  Gandi.net is another.  There are
plenty of good ones.

Letting domains expire and then re-registering them _can_ work -- as
long as someone else doesn't swoop in and snatch up the domain from the
unregistered pool before you can.

If it's a valuable domain (high Alexa rank or such), there's high
likelihood that very motivated people with automated scripts pounding
the registration UI to try to be first in line.

Article I think you'll find interesting:  'Domain Expiration' on
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Network_Other




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jul 15 08:44:33 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 08:44:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] FCC
In-Reply-To: <53C4A006.6080604@gmail.com>
References: <53C4A006.6080604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140715154433.GW25067@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting bloonoise (bloonoise at gmail.com):

> please everyone do your part to stop this abomination.......

Two things:

1.  End of the comment period is _today_.
2.  Comments can be made as detailed here:
http://www.fcc.gov/page/fcc-establishes-new-inbox-open-internet-comments



From marksobell at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 13:14:08 2014
From: marksobell at gmail.com (Mark Sobell)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 13:14:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] FCC
In-Reply-To: <20140715154433.GW25067@linuxmafia.com>
References: <53C4A006.6080604@gmail.com>
	<20140715154433.GW25067@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <CABE_MY3uDdKenEe8A1zTC87fWd8CTV5nX-tsNaPF-QKA2oeFRQ@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW EFF reports: So many net neutrality comments that FCC's servers are
crashing. New extended deadline is Friday: https://dearfcc.org
<https://t.co/Darkq5aRwQ>
(but do not let that keep you from sending a note today)
<https://t.co/Darkq5aRwQ>

            Mark


On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting bloonoise (bloonoise at gmail.com):
>
> > please everyone do your part to stop this abomination.......
>
> Two things:
>
> 1.  End of the comment period is _today_.
> 2.  Comments can be made as detailed here:
> http://www.fcc.gov/page/fcc-establishes-new-inbox-open-internet-comments
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Tue Jul 15 21:42:01 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:42:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SF-LUG] [LSG] Linux Sys. Admin. 101 Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tdV+=iQhLhfaCQm+pXdkv2JLUF+P+CqPBm5Z11JxDAk-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tdV+=iQhLhfaCQm+pXdkv2JLUF+P+CqPBm5Z11JxDAk-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tfbO8y6YyYamWMtSTDsYn4UGRb2sw4M3FOQ+ZUd_ys6VA@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class.

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible

BART => Civic Center

MUNI rail => Van Ness Station

Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...


message ends
________________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Jul 21 17:05:29 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:05:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] I'll be at SF-LUG this evening, ... oh,
	and CDs/DVDs/ISOs/images	...
Message-ID: <20140721170529.16781zs4a2fjmpq8@webmail.rawbw.com>

I'll be at SF-LUG this evening, in case anyone might be interested.

Oh, yes, CDs/images ...
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc




From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 23 19:16:25 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 19:16:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SF-LUG] [LSG] Linux Sys. Admin. 101 Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tfbO8y6YyYamWMtSTDsYn4UGRb2sw4M3FOQ+ZUd_ys6VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tdV+=iQhLhfaCQm+pXdkv2JLUF+P+CqPBm5Z11JxDAk-A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2tfbO8y6YyYamWMtSTDsYn4UGRb2sw4M3FOQ+ZUd_ys6VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tcfaXpvhCucDh4p+n=6B-sBmOv7cp1UARRdTLEYs+gSUQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: maestro <maestro415 at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 21:42:01 -0700
Subject: Fwd: [SF-LUG] [LSG] Linux Sys. Admin. 101 Class
To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class.

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible

BART => Civic Center

MUNI rail => Van Ness Station

Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...


message ends
________________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*



-- 


*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Jul 28 08:55:28 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:55:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting on Sunday August 3,
 2014 and report for Monday July 21 meeting.
Message-ID: <53D67270.2080105@dslextreme.com>

    SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M. and
every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Meeting times are nominal so that if you come after 7:30 PM
we may have left.

         The last Monday meeting a week past on 21 July saw only
4 attendees, myself, Michael Paoli, Jim Stockford, and Eric.

   I brought along my usual collection of dvds and eventually
booted up Lubuntu 14.04 which runs pretty clean and is
very light weight.   This from the Ubuntu Monster Pack in
Linux Pro for July 2014

     Michael brought along great stacks of distribution disks for
the distros he favors but he was occupied through the evening
with updating various servers software.  You can see the
sort of distributions that he brought along at:
<http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc> .

     Jim occupied himself largely with Linux Pro magasine for July 2014 
which
as usual had lots of news and good articles.

     Eric seemed busy with the small tablet he has been using but exactly
what he was doing was not clear to me.

     meeting concluded at 8 PM. and Jim was able to give the attendees 
rides
on to their respective destinations.

     Thanks for your attention!

     Bobbie Sellers




From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Jul 30 17:07:28 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 17:07:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: /SF-LUG/Sys.Admin.101.Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk
Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness
Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,
or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.
Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings. Thank you...

message ends
_____________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Jul 30 22:53:03 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 22:53:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Plop Boot Manager for older machines
Message-ID: <53D9D9BF.3010306@dslextreme.com>

Hi fellow suspects,

     Frequently read about here as to how to get certain
older machines to boot from USB or even CD.  This
Plop Boot Manager can be written to a hard drive,
a bootable floppy disk, or CD.  It can be found
for those of us with an interest at:
<http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html>

Now my explanation may not be adequate so there
is a good review and explanation of the Plop Boot Manager
at <http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/7319/1> .

     Hope that this will be of some interest and useful information.

     Bobbie
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug  4 08:08:04 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 08:08:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting of SF-LUG of 8 August 2014
Message-ID: <53DFA1D4.5070003@dslextreme.com>

  Hi LUGers,
    Well in my estimate despite my problems with my notebook
it was a good meeting.

       John S. was first on the scene there when I arrived at 10:45.
He has learned that a daughter is expecting and is very happy.

   Michael showed up next for the first time in about 6 months
He got a good deal on a refurbished laptop through Best Buy
online  and was happy with it after installing a larger hard
drive.  He got that advice at the last meeting he attended.

      Ken Shaffer showed up next and I was glad to see him as my
   Mageia 4.1 failed to restart to my user account.   I tried a Boot-
Repair-Disk but my copy had errors for some reason.   Bit rot?
   We messed about with reading dmesg and other logs then
tried to diagnose with Knoppix.
     Finally tried to reboot and this time from the systemctrl
prompt managed using Cntrl D to get back to my user account from
a failsafe shell.
       And after I got home by, the way, the machine recovered from
Hibernation  without a hitch.  Later at home I ran another copy
of Boot-Repair-Disk and found out among other things that it
is based on Lubuntu but the available tools are severely restricted.
I was unable to make a copy to any of my drives of the url
given to check the results.  I have to say I don't much care for
that feature or the lack of ability to write notes to file.  One con
is the idea that without specifing that it is going to write to a
Web site it just goes ahead and does so.  Second problem is
not being able to write to media to save that url you are given.
Having written down the URL, this morning i was unable to
find the supposed summary of the machine problems.

     Maestro showed up and was somewhat more interested in
interaction than any specific matter.

     Shortly after Noon, Jim showed up having been somewhat delayed
by a small accident.  He was shaken but felt better after a small meal.

     Michael and Maestro discussing dsl services and problems
with changes to technology at services the problems being
lower speeds at particular times if day.   Jim and Ken chimed
in.

   Eric showed up about 12:56 P.M. and was glad to catch us.

   John gave Maestro a ride and Jim took Eric and myself home
   via the FrankenArt gallery to get a free frank and deliver
   a very nice frank sign.
                 *    *    *        *    *    *
     The next meeting at Cafe Enchante will be on August 18
from 6-8 PM.  Regular meeting notice will be posted here next
week.

     Bobbie Sellers
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From jim at well.com  Mon Aug  4 08:58:26 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 08:58:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting of SF-LUG of 8 August 2014
In-Reply-To: <53DFA1D4.5070003@dslextreme.com>
References: <53DFA1D4.5070003@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <53DFADA2.4060105@well.com>


Thanks for the summary, Bobbie.


On 08/04/2014 08:08 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>  Hi LUGers,
>    Well in my estimate despite my problems with my notebook
> it was a good meeting.
>
>       John S. was first on the scene there when I arrived at 10:45.
> He has learned that a daughter is expecting and is very happy.
>
>   Michael showed up next for the first time in about 6 months
> He got a good deal on a refurbished laptop through Best Buy
> online  and was happy with it after installing a larger hard
> drive.  He got that advice at the last meeting he attended.
>
>      Ken Shaffer showed up next and I was glad to see him as my
>   Mageia 4.1 failed to restart to my user account.   I tried a Boot-
> Repair-Disk but my copy had errors for some reason.   Bit rot?
>   We messed about with reading dmesg and other logs then
> tried to diagnose with Knoppix.
>     Finally tried to reboot and this time from the systemctrl
> prompt managed using Cntrl D to get back to my user account from
> a failsafe shell.
>       And after I got home by, the way, the machine recovered from
> Hibernation  without a hitch.  Later at home I ran another copy
> of Boot-Repair-Disk and found out among other things that it
> is based on Lubuntu but the available tools are severely restricted.
> I was unable to make a copy to any of my drives of the url
> given to check the results.  I have to say I don't much care for
> that feature or the lack of ability to write notes to file.  One con
> is the idea that without specifing that it is going to write to a
> Web site it just goes ahead and does so.  Second problem is
> not being able to write to media to save that url you are given.
> Having written down the URL, this morning i was unable to
> find the supposed summary of the machine problems.
>
>     Maestro showed up and was somewhat more interested in
> interaction than any specific matter.
>
>     Shortly after Noon, Jim showed up having been somewhat delayed
> by a small accident.  He was shaken but felt better after a small meal.
>
>     Michael and Maestro discussing dsl services and problems
> with changes to technology at services the problems being
> lower speeds at particular times if day.   Jim and Ken chimed
> in.
>
>   Eric showed up about 12:56 P.M. and was glad to catch us.
>
>   John gave Maestro a ride and Jim took Eric and myself home
>   via the FrankenArt gallery to get a free frank and deliver
>   a very nice frank sign.
>                 *    *    *        *    *    *
>     The next meeting at Cafe Enchante will be on August 18
> from 6-8 PM.  Regular meeting notice will be posted here next
> week.
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug  4 10:43:02 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:43:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting of SF-LUG of 8 August 2014
In-Reply-To: <53DFADA2.4060105@well.com>
References: <53DFA1D4.5070003@dslextreme.com> <53DFADA2.4060105@well.com>
Message-ID: <53DFC626.8090506@dslextreme.com>


On 08/04/2014 08:58 AM, jim wrote:
>
> Thanks for the summary, Bobbie.

     Thanks for the notice, Jim.

     Bobbie
>
>
> On 08/04/2014 08:08 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>  Hi LUGers,
>>    Well in my estimate despite my problems with my notebook
>> it was a good meeting.
>>
snip
>>                 *    *    *        *    *    *
>>     The next meeting at Cafe Enchante will be on August 18
>> from 6-8 PM.  Regular meeting notice will be posted here next
>> week.
>>
>>     Bobbie Sellers
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is athttp://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Aug  6 22:10:06 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 22:10:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: /SF-LUG/Sys.Admin.101.Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tfpqwt5JQv+SEHH99yo6g2qD9t-Bp-1RRkKer6mdxsbuQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)
Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk
Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness
Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,
or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.
Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings. Thank you...

message ends
_____________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Aug  8 14:38:26 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 14:38:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
Message-ID: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>

     Story at URL below.

     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>

     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
applicability to GNU/Linux.

     bliss
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From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Fri Aug  8 15:24:22 2014
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 15:24:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
References: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <B19933AF-8E7B-45C9-B637-F1C27F62F44D@gmail.com>

Good discussion on Security Now (Steve Gibson). 

Sent from Dan.

> On Aug 8, 2014, at 14:38, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
> 
>     Story at URL below.
> 
>     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
> 
>     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
> applicability to GNU/Linux.
> 
>     bliss
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Fri Aug  8 17:20:05 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 17:20:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
References: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-XDxJDkO66f5hhmTnie2sWQsx3_F7GvWoqwC_qCMwWO7A@mail.gmail.com>

It's worse than just that.  A bunch of things seem to be stunningly broken.

More info from the BlackHat conference:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/black-hat-breakdown/

A breakdown for non-experts of the multiple way TLS/SSL is broken:
http://bh.ht.vc/summary.pdf


On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com
> wrote:

>      Story at URL below.
>
>     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
> <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
>
>     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
> applicability to GNU/Linux.
>
>     bliss
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug  8 19:56:33 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 19:56:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
References: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <20140809025633.GI4941@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com):

>     Story at URL below.
> 
>     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
> 
>     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
> applicability to GNU/Linux.

   Malicious code implanted on the stick tricked the machine into
   thinking a keyboard had been plugged in.  After just a few moments,
   the "keyboard" began typing in commands - and instructed the 
   computer to download a malicious program from the internet. [...]

USB support circuitry on motherboards (the 'USB host controller')
recognises USB keyboards as Human Interface Devices of Usage ID 06
(Keyboard).  In Linux, there's a low-level driver for the host
controller, which receives from the hardware low-level
manufacturer-specified information about what the device is (which the
article points out may be a lie).  The low-level driver translates that
information into higher-level USB protocol-specific information, which
is propagated into the USB core layer driver 'usbcore' in Linux
kernelspace.  

What happens after that depends on your system.  Some distros do USB
'hotplug' (which, these days, I believe invokes udev rules), others
don't.  (http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net/) Also, the usbcore driver
has some built-in functions to be able to probe or disconnect devices
recommended to it at lower levels.

I can't help noticing that many Linux users these days are wildly
enthusiastic for hotplug functionality.  I'm not, especially concerning
USB devices, part of the reason being lack of trust for reasons along
the lines the article outlines.

As to whether $YOUR_MOMS_LINUX can be easily tricked by deceptive USB
hardware, I'll not be bold enough to predict that.  Instead, motivated
people ought to check.  (I'm not volunteering, but agree that it's a
significant threat worth looking into.)

Preventing misbehaviour might be best done using udev rules, like
shown here: 
http://www.irongeek.com/i.php?page=security/plug-and-prey-malicious-usb-devices#3.2_Locking_down_Linux_using_UDEV

Personally, I would really like to have NO devices ever autorecognised
as anything without my being told exactly what is about to be activated
in what capacity, is this ok (y/N)?

There's some discussion here, but so far nothing useful that I can see:
http://lwn.net/Articles/607305/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug  8 20:55:27 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 20:55:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-XDxJDkO66f5hhmTnie2sWQsx3_F7GvWoqwC_qCMwWO7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
	<CAJ4sp-XDxJDkO66f5hhmTnie2sWQsx3_F7GvWoqwC_qCMwWO7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140809035527.GJ4941@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com):

> It's worse than just that.  A bunch of things seem to be stunningly broken.
> 
> More info from the BlackHat conference:
> http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/08/black-hat-breakdown/
> 
> A breakdown for non-experts of the multiple way TLS/SSL is broken:
> http://bh.ht.vc/summary.pdf

TLS/SSL has been known to be badly broken for quite a few years.
Bruce Schneier's chapter in _Secrets and Lies_ about how deficient
the Certificate Authority system is, was a real eye-opener, for example.

I note that the BlackHat presentations give further reasons to distrust
the use of external single-signon providers by large service providers
(such as Facebook, Google, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.) if you seriously 
expect TLS session encryption to give you any kind of privacy, and 
also to distrust cloud servers handling multiple alleged private sites'
traffic.

The Cookie Cutter attack is possibly only if HTTP cookies get sleazed
outside the HTTPS channel, which unfortunately is sadly common.  

It is _supposed_ to preventable entirely if the Web site includes HTTP
Strict Transport Security (HSTS) headers with all content:  This header
signals the browser that connections to the site should always use
TLS/SSL for everything with no fallback to HTTP for any reason.  
The talk slides say something about 'truncation' playing havoc with this
intention, but I can't figure out from the slides alone what the meaning
is.

The slides stress how important 'same origin policy' in a browser is,
and I agree.  That's one reason I use several of the Firefox browser 
extensions I do, to try to prevent cross-domain monkey business on the
Web, notably RequestPolicy and NoScript (referring, here, to its
Anti-XSS functions).

I note in passing that NoScript has the ability to force HTTP cookies 
unconditionally over HTTPS.




From akkana at shallowsky.com  Sat Aug  9 09:06:10 2014
From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 10:06:10 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <20140809025633.GI4941@linuxmafia.com>
	<53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <20140809160610.GI925@shallowsky.com>

Bobbie Sellers writes:
>     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
> 
>     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
> applicability to GNU/Linux.

I've seen this in a couple of places and I can't see where the news
flash is.  You can make a USB device that looks like a usb-storage
stick but actually acts like a keyboard? Well, sure, remote
presenters ("slide clickers") have been doing that for a decade.
I don't understand how that's a problem with the USB protocol,
or a new security alert.

Figuring out how a malicious USB keyboard device could reliably
compromise a Linux system is a bit harder. Using only the keyboard,
and not knowing where the focus is or what distro or window manager
is running, you have to:
- bring up a terminal window, or some other way to type shell commands;
- type evil commands (probably beginning with sudo and hoping that it
  doesn't prompt for a password);
- do this without the user noticing that a new terminal has popped
  up, focus has shifted there and commands are being typed in it.

Yes, it could be done, and it would work on a few systems, but it
doesn't seem like a very general attack vector.

Rick Moen writes:
> I can't help noticing that many Linux users these days are wildly
> enthusiastic for hotplug functionality.  I'm not, especially concerning
> USB devices, part of the reason being lack of trust for reasons along
> the lines the article outlines.

It would be great if Linux had a sensible alternative to auto-
recognizing hotplugged devices, like it does for storage devices.

For instance, when I plug in a USB stick or SD card, my system
isn't set up to automatically mount it. If I want to mount it,
I type a command like "mount /mnt/sdcard", using an /etc/fstab entry
I've previously set up. If I hadn't set up the fstab entry, I could
still type something like "sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt".

When I plug in a keyboard device (say, my slide presenter), there's
no such option. If I turn off the udev rules that automatically
recognize a new keyboard device, there's no easy way to tell udev
"This device is okay, go ahead and recognize it." I'm doomed to
spend an hour or more fiddling with udev rules and rebooting to get
udev to recognize my new rule.

        ...Akkana



From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Sat Aug  9 09:25:13 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 09:25:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <20140809160610.GI925@shallowsky.com>
References: <20140809025633.GI4941@linuxmafia.com>
	<53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
	<20140809160610.GI925@shallowsky.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-Uqo-L64puPr=w85dKiP+hSLYJChn_Embv8ozuR82EgOQ@mail.gmail.com>

My understanding is that the newsflash is about vulnerability of the
firmware, and thus infection/compromise being undetectable by the usual
assortment of precautionary interventions such as virus scanners.  Not
necessarily news to folks who know some details about how these devices
work and interact with an OS, but not something I think average users, even
fairly savvy ones, expected to have to worry about.


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com> wrote:

> Bobbie Sellers writes:
> >     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
> >
> >     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
> > applicability to GNU/Linux.
>
> I've seen this in a couple of places and I can't see where the news
> flash is.  You can make a USB device that looks like a usb-storage
> stick but actually acts like a keyboard? Well, sure, remote
> presenters ("slide clickers") have been doing that for a decade.
> I don't understand how that's a problem with the USB protocol,
> or a new security alert.
>
> Figuring out how a malicious USB keyboard device could reliably
> compromise a Linux system is a bit harder. Using only the keyboard,
> and not knowing where the focus is or what distro or window manager
> is running, you have to:
> - bring up a terminal window, or some other way to type shell commands;
> - type evil commands (probably beginning with sudo and hoping that it
>   doesn't prompt for a password);
> - do this without the user noticing that a new terminal has popped
>   up, focus has shifted there and commands are being typed in it.
>
> Yes, it could be done, and it would work on a few systems, but it
> doesn't seem like a very general attack vector.
>
> Rick Moen writes:
> > I can't help noticing that many Linux users these days are wildly
> > enthusiastic for hotplug functionality.  I'm not, especially concerning
> > USB devices, part of the reason being lack of trust for reasons along
> > the lines the article outlines.
>
> It would be great if Linux had a sensible alternative to auto-
> recognizing hotplugged devices, like it does for storage devices.
>
> For instance, when I plug in a USB stick or SD card, my system
> isn't set up to automatically mount it. If I want to mount it,
> I type a command like "mount /mnt/sdcard", using an /etc/fstab entry
> I've previously set up. If I hadn't set up the fstab entry, I could
> still type something like "sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt".
>
> When I plug in a keyboard device (say, my slide presenter), there's
> no such option. If I turn off the udev rules that automatically
> recognize a new keyboard device, there's no easy way to tell udev
> "This device is okay, go ahead and recognize it." I'm doomed to
> spend an hour or more fiddling with udev rules and rebooting to get
> udev to recognize my new rule.
>
>         ...Akkana
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Aug 10 17:06:34 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 17:06:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: [Felton LUG] BBC News - USB 'critically flawed'
 after bug discovery, researchers say
Message-ID: <20140811000634.GM4941@linuxmafia.com>

Useful perspective.

----- Forwarded message from Jeremy <jercos at gmail.com> -----

Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 14:46:41 -0700
From: Jeremy <jercos at gmail.com>
To: felton-lug at googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Felton LUG] BBC News - USB 'critically flawed' after bug
	discovery, researchers say

 From a computer security standpoint, this is somewhat old news... an older
version of the same concept took advantage of SanDisk "U3" USB drives,
which would pretend to be both a USB drive and a CD-ROM drive in order to
auto-run the U3 application. As it turns out, it's possible to replace the
simulated CD-ROM drive with your own CD image, which in the windows XP era
meant simply plugging in a flash drive could auto-run a piece of malware
instead. That particular hole has been closed in Windows (By always
prompting before auto-running anything), and never existed in Linux
(Auto-run? What's that? :p), but the attacks demonstrated in this BBC
article are nearly impossible to invalidate while keeping consumers
comfortable... how would you click "OK" to allow installing a new USB
mouse? Given the same problems would exist in any peripheral interface
capable of connecting both innocuous storage devices and input devices, I'd
say the title is misleading.

The article brushes against and neatly avoids an inverse point as well,
while they demonstrate a phone being used to tap a computer's network, the
opposite can be done as well, an innocous-looking public USB charger as one
might find in an airport or coffee shop could have been replaced with a
device that can connect to your phone and read any information stored on
it. If you find yourself in such places charging your phone often, or might
lend a USB port to someone needs some charge on their phone, it might be
worth investing a few bucks in a SUB "charge only" adapter, which is
inserted between a USB cable and a USB port to prevent the phone from
syncing to the port it's connected to.

A far worse exploit was found in firewire (and expanded to similar
interfaces with DMA access) a fair amount of time before that, as a
firewire hard drive was in many cases allowed unrestricted memory access,
and could thus read passwords and encryption keys right out of memory,
insert a rootkit right into the running kernel, and other frightening
things without so much as a security prompt. The device that was used to
demonstrate this in 2004? A classic iPod, physically unmodified, with a
custom firmware installed.

In either case, this article highlights an important point: if you're
concerned about your computer's security, NEVER plug random devices into
it. Plugging a device into your computer, be it Firewire, USB, Thunderbolt,
eSATA, ExpressCard, or PCMCIA means that you are trusting the device's
owner AND the device's manufacturer not to have tampered with it, and given
the scope of the attacks possible from every bus in that list *except* USB,
USB might just be the safest case. At least a USB device has to go to the
extent of simulating a keyboard and mouse or network card before it can
control your computer or steal your information.


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Robert Lewis <bob.l.lewis at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124

----- End forwarded message -----



From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Sun Aug 10 19:26:56 2014
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (GMail)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:26:56 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB has critical vunerability.
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-Uqo-L64puPr=w85dKiP+hSLYJChn_Embv8ozuR82EgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20140809025633.GI4941@linuxmafia.com>
	<53E54352.3000709@dslextreme.com>
	<20140809160610.GI925@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Uqo-L64puPr=w85dKiP+hSLYJChn_Embv8ozuR82EgOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D44DE5D-4209-40F9-B7EB-FD264D0FAE1F@gmail.com>

Isn't this (sort of) an extension of the USB Rubber Ducky that you can get from Hak5.org??

Sent from Dan.

> On Aug 9, 2014, at 9:25, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> My understanding is that the newsflash is about vulnerability of the firmware, and thus infection/compromise being undetectable by the usual assortment of precautionary interventions such as virus scanners.  Not necessarily news to folks who know some details about how these devices work and interact with an OS, but not something I think average users, even fairly savvy ones, expected to have to worry about.
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com> wrote:
>> Bobbie Sellers writes:
>> >     <http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28701124>
>> >
>> >     Hope we will get informed comment on the story and its
>> > applicability to GNU/Linux.
>> 
>> I've seen this in a couple of places and I can't see where the news
>> flash is.  You can make a USB device that looks like a usb-storage
>> stick but actually acts like a keyboard? Well, sure, remote
>> presenters ("slide clickers") have been doing that for a decade.
>> I don't understand how that's a problem with the USB protocol,
>> or a new security alert.
>> 
>> Figuring out how a malicious USB keyboard device could reliably
>> compromise a Linux system is a bit harder. Using only the keyboard,
>> and not knowing where the focus is or what distro or window manager
>> is running, you have to:
>> - bring up a terminal window, or some other way to type shell commands;
>> - type evil commands (probably beginning with sudo and hoping that it
>>   doesn't prompt for a password);
>> - do this without the user noticing that a new terminal has popped
>>   up, focus has shifted there and commands are being typed in it.
>> 
>> Yes, it could be done, and it would work on a few systems, but it
>> doesn't seem like a very general attack vector.
>> 
>> Rick Moen writes:
>> > I can't help noticing that many Linux users these days are wildly
>> > enthusiastic for hotplug functionality.  I'm not, especially concerning
>> > USB devices, part of the reason being lack of trust for reasons along
>> > the lines the article outlines.
>> 
>> It would be great if Linux had a sensible alternative to auto-
>> recognizing hotplugged devices, like it does for storage devices.
>> 
>> For instance, when I plug in a USB stick or SD card, my system
>> isn't set up to automatically mount it. If I want to mount it,
>> I type a command like "mount /mnt/sdcard", using an /etc/fstab entry
>> I've previously set up. If I hadn't set up the fstab entry, I could
>> still type something like "sudo mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt".
>> 
>> When I plug in a keyboard device (say, my slide presenter), there's
>> no such option. If I turn off the udev rules that automatically
>> recognize a new keyboard device, there's no easy way to tell udev
>> "This device is okay, go ahead and recognize it." I'm doomed to
>> spend an hour or more fiddling with udev rules and rebooting to get
>> udev to recognize my new rule.
>> 
>>         ...Akkana
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug 11 09:02:17 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:02:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting next Monday 18 August 2014
Message-ID: <53E8E909.2020500@dslextreme.com>

    SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we usually are able to find someone
who can help.

   I usually bring along a selection of recent GNU/Linux distributions
and hope to have the latest Linux Pro magazine available.

     Hope to see some of the membership there.

     Bobbie Sellers




From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 13 20:28:46 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:28:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: /SF-LUG/Sys.Admin.101.Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2tfpqwt5JQv+SEHH99yo6g2qD9t-Bp-1RRkKer6mdxsbuQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2tfpqwt5JQv+SEHH99yo6g2qD9t-Bp-1RRkKer6mdxsbuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2teBPbNZC8rvF+XQ=oG4qmNFJKg8aDg_4qr2S8HpQ-wKcQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness
Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...

message ends
_____________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Aug 13 22:00:12 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 22:00:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting next Monday 18 August 2014
In-Reply-To: <53E8E909.2020500@dslextreme.com>
References: <53E8E909.2020500@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <53EC425C.7090009@dslextreme.com>


On 08/11/2014 09:02 AM, I wrote:

     About the next meeting but I made a purchase today

     I was able to buy the latest Linux Pro for August 2014.
This issue has several interesting articles including one comparing the
more common file systems and some news about Canonical losses
earlier in this year.
     The disk of the month is Linux Mint Cinnamon in both 32 and 64 bit
flavors.  If anyone wants a copy let me know and I will have it ready 
before the
meeting.
     Thanks again for your attention.

     Bobbie

> SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
> and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
> at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.
>
>     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
> year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
> and maybe we can help but if not we usually are able to find someone
> who can help.
>
>   I usually bring along a selection of recent GNU/Linux distributions
> and hope to have the latest Linux Pro magazine available.
>
>     Hope to see some of the membership there.
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Aug 14 07:55:59 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 07:55:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG meetings & news: Tu 2014-08-19: Lightning talks;
	2014-09-16	Todd Varland of AWS; 2014-10-21 New Venue!
Message-ID: <20140814075559.189123idu6cprbwk@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG meetings & news: Tu 2014-08-19: Lightning talks; 2014-09-16 Todd  
Varland of AWS; 2014-10-21 New Venue!

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2014-08-19 BALUG meeting - Lightning talks: How I use Linux, ...
2014-09-16 BALUG meeting  -Todd Varland of Amazon's Amazon Web Services (AWS)
2014-10-21 New venue starting in October!
giveaways (CDs/DVDs, ...)
volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your experience & resume!)
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

For our 2014-08-19 BALUG meeting we have Lightning talks! on ...
"What I do with Linux" and additional topics
(e.g. Cool stuff from BALUG).
You can drop us a note at balug-speaker-coordinators at balug.org
if you'd like to ensure we get you added to the line-up, or if you have
specific questions about the 2014-08-19 meeting format and such.  If
you'll be joining the line-up, we also have wiki page which has lots of
relevant information and may answer many questions one may have - e.g.
our video projection capabilities at the venue:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:speaker-presenter_information_and_resources
Promises to be an interesting meeting - and our next-to-last at the
Four Seas Restaurant (get in to see us there and/or do that bit of
talk/presentation there while you can, before we leave that historic
location!)

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                         rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

    6:30pm Tuesday, August 19th, 2014 2014-08-19
    Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
    731 Grant Ave.
    San Francisco, CA 94108
    Easy Transit Access:  The MUNI 1 line stops half a block away.  For
      folks on BART, the MUNI 1 starts about a block from Embarcadero
      BART.  Trip planning:  http://www.511.org/
    Easy PARKING:
      Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
      http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
        cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
        family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
        also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

For our 2014-09-16 BALUG meeting, we have:

Todd Varland of Amazon Web Services (AWS)[1] on:
Everything that's old is new again: Linux, Hardware and the Cloud[2]
(Internet of Things)[3]

Talk Outline:

o Observations from the front line - Trends in Internet of Things
   (IoT)/Low Performance Computing (LPC)[4]
o Showcase a project that was done in the AWS Office
   (simplebeerservice.com[5])
o Discuss and demo a file backup project that Todd did (Raspberry Pi[6]
   networking device that backs files up to AWS)
o Discuss and demo an automation of Todd's home heating system
   (Arduino[7] device that controls heating vents aided by the Cloud)
o Wrap up these examples by tying into observations and thoughts on
   where the Maker movement[8] is headed with this

Todd Varland is a Solutions Architect at Amazon Web Services (AWS)
based in San Francisco.  Todd works with customers of all sizes helping
architect solutions being deployed in the AWS cloud across a broad
range of technical scenarios.  Prior to joining AWS, Todd spent more
than a decade in traditional datacenter and cloud operations in senior
management positions.  Other "tours of duty" include development,
performance engineering and operations in organizations ranging from
start-up to Fortune 50.

Note also that this will be the last time BALUG meets at this historic
location!  So come by to also say goodbye to our Four Seas Restaurant
meeting location.  We'll meet at a new location in October.

1. http://aws.amazon.com/
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_of_Things
4. https://www.google.com/#q=%22low+performance+computing%22+LPC
5. https://simplebeerservice.com/
6. http://www.raspberrypi.org/
7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino
8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker_movement

------------------------------

2014-10-21 New venue starting in October!

The Four Seas Restaurant lost their lease.  So their last day of
business there is 2014-09-27, and our last meeting there will be
2014-09-16.  We certainly want to thank The Four Seas Restaurant for
their wonderful hospitality, dining, and a great place for us to meet
over these many years!  BALUG has been meeting there since our first
meeting back in October 1997.  By my count, through September, I
believe BALUG will have held 186 meetings in total at
The Four Seas Restaurant, and The Four Seas Restaurant has been in
business there since the 1930s!  We've had multiple meetings there with
over 100 attendees, including Linus Torvalds, Mark Shuttleworth, and
many other speakers and highly notable speakers over the years - and we
want to thank them all too! ... and continue meeting!

And continue meeting BALUG will!  3rd Tuesdays, per usuaul - but with
change of venue starting 2014-10-21.  Where will we be?  We can
certainly use your help on leads for venue!  Certainly feel free to
discus on our "talk[1]" list.  See also the earlier item[2] on our
announce list that gives fair overview of what we're hopefully looking
to find as for venue.  And IF YOU HAVE LEADS ON SPECIFIC VENUE(s) BE
SURE TO DROP US A NOTE!: balug-contact at balug.org - and can of course
also mention/discuss it on our "talk[1]" list.  And much thanks for
leads/contacts, useful ideas, etc. that will get us to our future
venue(s)!

And watch the web site and "announce" list for updates - I'm hoping
we'll have venue figured out fairly soon, but in most any case, I expect
we'll have that finalized - at least for our October meeting, some weeks
or more in advance.

1. http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
2.  
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2014-July/001504.html

------------------------------

We typically have various giveaway items at BALUG meetings.  We'll
likely have at least the below plus additional items.

Book!  We have author autographed copy - signed by Elizabeth K. Joseph
of:
The Official Ubuntu Book, 8th Edition
By Matthew Helmke, Elizabeth K. Joseph,
with Jos? Antonio Rey, Philip Ballew, Benjamin Mako Hill
Published Jul 15, 2014 by Prentice Hall.
Copyright 2015
Dimensions: 7" x 9-1/8"
Pages: 368
Edition: 8th
ISBN-10: 0-13-390539-X
ISBN-13: 978-0-13-390539-7
http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=013390539X

CDs/DVDs/ISOs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We may also be able to "burn" images per request or copy to USB flash,
etc.  Donations of blank or +-RW media, USB flash, or funding thereof,
also appreciated.  See the above URL for details (and the inventory
(qty.) of what we specifically have "burned" and available on-hand does
also frequently change).

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your resume/experience)

Not only can you do useful and cool stuff volunteering to help BALUG,
but it can also be a way to gain useful and practical experience, and
could also be something to add to or round out one's resume.

There a quite a variety of opportunities to help BALUG.  Come talk to us
at a meeting and/or drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
These opportunities may include, among other possibilities:
o assist on speaker coordination/procurement, etc.
o assist on publicity
o chief/assistant cat herder
o Linux Systems Administration (e.g. do/assist/learn, with/under some
     quite experienced and skilled Linux systems administrators).
o webmaster, assistant webmaster, designer, graphic artist
o archivist/history/retrieval/etc.
o and other various/miscellaneous tasks BALUG "ought" to be doing or
     would be good to do (feel free to suggest ideas!)

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Aug 18 07:48:52 2014
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 07:48:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG REMINDER TOMORROW: Tu 2014-08-19: Lightning talks;
	also:	2014-09-16 Todd Varland of AWS; 2014-10-21 New Venue!
Message-ID: <20140818074852.17514867n3ys9ds0@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG REMINDER TOMORROW: Tu 2014-08-19: Lightning talks; also:  
2014-09-16 Todd Varland of AWS; 2014-10-21 New Venue!

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2014-08-19 BALUG meeting TOMORROW: Lightning talks: How I use Linux, ...
2014-09-16 BALUG meeting  -Todd Varland of Amazon's Amazon Web Services (AWS)
2014-10-21 New venue starting in October!
giveaways (author autographed book!, CDs/DVDs, ...)
volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your experience & resume!)
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

For our 2014-08-19 BALUG meeting we have Lightning talks! on ...
"What I do with Linux" and additional topics
(e.g. Cool stuff from BALUG).
You can drop us a note at balug-speaker-coordinators at balug.org
if you'd like to ensure we get you added to the line-up, or if you have
specific questions about the 2014-08-19 meeting format and such.  If
you'll be joining the line-up, we also have wiki page which has lots of
relevant information and may answer many questions one may have - e.g.
our video projection capabilities at the venue:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:speaker-presenter_information_and_resources
Promises to be an interesting meeting - and our next-to-last at the
Four Seas Restaurant (get in to see us there and/or do that bit of
talk/presentation there while you can, before we leave that historic
location!)

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                         rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

    6:30pm Tuesday, August 19th, 2014 2014-08-19
    Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
    731 Grant Ave.
    San Francisco, CA 94108
    Easy Transit Access:  The MUNI 1 line stops half a block away.  For
      folks on BART, the MUNI 1 starts about a block from Embarcadero
      BART.  Trip planning:  http://www.511.org/
    Easy PARKING:
      Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
      http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
        cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
        family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
        also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

For our 2014-09-16 BALUG meeting, we have:

Todd Varland of Amazon Web Services (AWS)[1] on:
Everything that's old is new again: Linux, Hardware and the Cloud[2]
(Internet of Things)[3]

Talk Outline:

o Observations from the front line - Trends in Internet of Things
   (IoT)/Low Performance Computing (LPC)[4]
o Showcase a project that was done in the AWS Office
   (simplebeerservice.com[5])
o Discuss and demo a file backup project that Todd did (Raspberry Pi[6]
   networking device that backs files up to AWS)
o Discuss and demo an automation of Todd's home heating system
   (Arduino[7] device that controls heating vents aided by the Cloud)
o Wrap up these examples by tying into observations and thoughts on
   where the Maker movement[8] is headed with this

Todd Varland is a Solutions Architect at Amazon Web Services (AWS)
based in San Francisco.  Todd works with customers of all sizes helping
architect solutions being deployed in the AWS cloud across a broad
range of technical scenarios.  Prior to joining AWS, Todd spent more
than a decade in traditional datacenter and cloud operations in senior
management positions.  Other "tours of duty" include development,
performance engineering and operations in organizations ranging from
start-up to Fortune 50.

Note also that this will be the last time BALUG meets at this historic
location!  So come by to also say goodbye to our Four Seas Restaurant
meeting location.  We'll meet at a new location in October.

1. http://aws.amazon.com/
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_of_Things
4. https://www.google.com/#q=%22low+performance+computing%22+LPC
5. https://simplebeerservice.com/
6. http://www.raspberrypi.org/
7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arduino
8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maker_movement

------------------------------

2014-10-21 New venue starting in October!

The Four Seas Restaurant lost their lease.  So their last day of
business there is 2014-09-27, and our last meeting there will be
2014-09-16.  We certainly want to thank The Four Seas Restaurant for
their wonderful hospitality, dining, and a great place for us to meet
over these many years!  BALUG has been meeting there since our first
meeting back in October 1997.  By my count, through September, I
believe BALUG will have held 186 meetings in total at
The Four Seas Restaurant, and The Four Seas Restaurant has been in
business there since the 1930s!  We've had multiple meetings there with
over 100 attendees, including Linus Torvalds, Mark Shuttleworth, and
many other speakers and highly notable speakers over the years - and we
want to thank them all too! ... and continue meeting!

And continue meeting BALUG will!  3rd Tuesdays, per usuaul - but with
change of venue starting 2014-10-21.  Where will we be?  We can
certainly use your help on leads for venue!  Certainly feel free to
discus on our "talk[1]" list.  See also the earlier item[2] on our
announce list that gives fair overview of what we're hopefully looking
to find as for venue.  And IF YOU HAVE LEADS ON SPECIFIC VENUE(s) BE
SURE TO DROP US A NOTE!: balug-contact at balug.org - and can of course
also mention/discuss it on our "talk[1]" list.  And much thanks for
leads/contacts, useful ideas, etc. that will get us to our future
venue(s)!

And watch the web site and "announce" list for updates - I'm hoping
we'll have venue figured out fairly soon, but in most any case, I expect
we'll have that finalized - at least for our October meeting, some weeks
or more in advance.

1. http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
2.  
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2014-July/001504.html

------------------------------

We typically have various giveaway items at BALUG meetings.  We'll
likely have at least the below plus additional items.

Book!  We have author autographed copy - signed by Elizabeth K. Joseph
of:
The Official Ubuntu Book, 8th Edition
By Matthew Helmke, Elizabeth K. Joseph,
with Jos? Antonio Rey, Philip Ballew, Benjamin Mako Hill
Published Jul 15, 2014 by Prentice Hall.
Copyright 2015
Dimensions: 7" x 9-1/8"
Pages: 368
Edition: 8th
ISBN-10: 0-13-390539-X
ISBN-13: 978-0-13-390539-7
http://www.informit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=013390539X

CDs/DVDs/ISOs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We may also be able to "burn" images per request or copy to USB flash,
etc.  Donations of blank or +-RW media, USB flash, or funding thereof,
also appreciated.  See the above URL for details (and the inventory
(qty.) of what we specifically have "burned" and available on-hand does
also frequently change).

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG (and add to your resume/experience)

Not only can you do useful and cool stuff volunteering to help BALUG,
but it can also be a way to gain useful and practical experience, and
could also be something to add to or round out one's resume.

There a quite a variety of opportunities to help BALUG.  Come talk to us
at a meeting and/or drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
These opportunities may include, among other possibilities:
o assist on speaker coordination/procurement, etc.
o assist on publicity
o chief/assistant cat herder
o Linux Systems Administration (e.g. do/assist/learn, with/under some
     quite experienced and skilled Linux systems administrators).
o webmaster, assistant webmaster, designer, graphic artist
o archivist/history/retrieval/etc.
o and other various/miscellaneous tasks BALUG "ought" to be doing or
     would be good to do (feel free to suggest ideas!)

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug 18 22:15:28 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:15:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Knoppix 7.4.3 is out!
Message-ID: <53F2DD70.8040204@dslextreme.com>

     I was very surprised when Eric brought copies to the meeting tonight.
     More about that later but two new possible participants in the Linux
discussion showed up this evening.

      I got to deal with r/l otherwise I would finish this note tonight.
     bye,
     bliss



From maestro415 at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 00:48:45 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 00:48:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: /SF-LUG/Sys.Admin.101.Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2teBPbNZC8rvF+XQ=oG4qmNFJKg8aDg_4qr2S8HpQ-wKcQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2tfpqwt5JQv+SEHH99yo6g2qD9t-Bp-1RRkKer6mdxsbuQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teBPbNZC8rvF+XQ=oG4qmNFJKg8aDg_4qr2S8HpQ-wKcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2te2qM3dC7bkwAfnJZPMeoJTaGoP899junCdzA4-py_F1Q@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness
Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...

message ends
_____________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Aug 21 14:32:22 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 14:32:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting of Monday evening 18 August 2014
Message-ID: <53F66566.8080303@dslextreme.com>

Hi concerned members of SF-LUG,

     Sorry if I made you wait but I had exhausted myself on Monday before
I came to the meeting and have been spending extra hours resting at home.

     I arrived about 5:35 PM.  I had no problems setting my notebook and
the preliminary work I did setting up a roaming profile worked just fine so
that I had no problems connecting to the WiFi at Cafe Enchante.
.
     Jim Stockford came by but had to go to band rehearsal this evening.

     I was not waiting long when two possible members showed up.
     Jimmy B using Crunchbang for about 18 month and is local
     Oleg P. using Ubuntu for about the same length of time.  Oleg
is not likely to attend regular meetings as he lives in Vallejo and had
rented a car which permitted his attendance this evening.

    i demonstrated a feature or two of the Mageia 4.1 distribution that 
I use
for these guys and talked about other things.
      Also demoed the Knoppix 7.3.0 on USB Flash Drive.

     Eric showed up with with the latest Knoppix 7.4.0 arriving before 1900.
     This enhanced the discussion of the various problems including on the
Ubuntu, a lack of support for the nVidia card Oleg is using.

     Eric is busy getting the free boxes from John F.S. running.
     I apparently had much better luck with my free box, but I am
having problems with letting myself spend the money to get the PCI
TV tuner and graphics cards I will need for this project.   Besides
that I have been rather busy keeping the HP Notebox running
nicely as well as doing all the stuff on it that I do all the time.
     Speaking of the stuff I keep doing I have upgraded my Knoppix on
the Flash Drive but have had no time to test it yet.

     A bit before 8 P.M. we packed up the notebooks and went on our
separate ways.

     That concludes the meeting report but if anyone has any corrections
to make please do so.

     The next Sunday meeting will be on September 7 and you can expect my
regular notice on the 1st of September.

     Thanks for your attention!

     Bobbie Sellers




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Aug 21 20:51:09 2014
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 20:51:09 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Sun map for Ubuntu 12.04
Message-ID: <CAJdae4ovYcNU_AMPKj03gr08BVNctr6XkbCk1R5TN9d-kSU5gg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know where to get the sun clock map for your desktop in Ubuntu
12.04?  The only thing I was able to find is here:

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/08/use-wallpaper-clocks-live-earth.html

but that doesn't seem to be the map that I was looking for.  It is close,
but there are too many clouds obscuring the picture.  I am thinking of a
map that is more like a map, and less like a picture of the earth.  Thanks!

-- 
Christian Einfeldt
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From gpope111 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 22 08:06:35 2014
From: gpope111 at gmail.com (george pope)
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:06:35 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] gadgets for field health monitoring
Message-ID: <53F75C7B.6010108@gmail.com>

Sent to BBC News, Now to Linux Mafia friends

Question: on 16 Aug 2014 I heard a story I thought on BBC Health Check, 
about new gadgets for field health monitoring health, e.g. blood, 
_largely being developed largely in Silicon valley._

I thought: wireless? perfect for the countries now e-flicked with Ebola! 
I have looked on BBC every day and just can't find it.

Please help from Kokrobite Ghana

Thanks

George Pope



From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 00:17:27 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 00:17:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-XMbNPTPi22bf-9tf44_P5+680Dyk1dLob0P64Kq+z_yA@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure how many of you know about, have needed to use, or have an
opinion about systemd.  I'm still processing what I know about it from use,
and other criticisms I've read about it, but I'm sympathetic to the points
made here.

https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Aug 26 08:56:37 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 08:56:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-XMbNPTPi22bf-9tf44_P5+680Dyk1dLob0P64Kq+z_yA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJ4sp-XMbNPTPi22bf-9tf44_P5+680Dyk1dLob0P64Kq+z_yA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140826155637.GL29432@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com):

> I'm not sure how many of you know about, have needed to use, or have an
> opinion about systemd.  I'm still processing what I know about it from use,
> and other criticisms I've read about it, but I'm sympathetic to the points
> made here.
> 
> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459

Sympathetic enough that I expect I'll actually dump Debian if it ceases
to be tenable without systemd at some point in the future.




From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 13:10:53 2014
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 15:10:53 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
Message-ID: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rick Moen writes:

> Quoting Jeff Bragg:
>
>> I'm not sure how many of you know about, have needed to use, or have an
>> opinion about systemd.  I'm still processing what I know about it from
use,
>> and other criticisms I've read about it, but I'm sympathetic to the
points
>> made here.
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459

Link has some cursing.

>
> Sympathetic enough that I expect I'll actually dump Debian if it ceases
> to be tenable without systemd at some point in the future.

I switched to FreeBSD/PC-BSD a few months ago due to
a networking related problem on Linux.  So far I'm liking BSD --
pcbsd.org .

I used systemd on Arch for a while prior to switching to BSD.
I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.  Searches
through the log were slowed down quite a bit because there
was so much crud in there.

The log problem was secondary but also influenced my decision.

-- 
Brian
Ebenezer Enterprises - In G-d we trust.
http://webEbenezer.net
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From akkana at shallowsky.com  Tue Aug 26 14:03:27 2014
From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 15:03:27 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>

Jeff Bragg:
>> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>>
>> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459

I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
his system.

It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
systemd. Like:

Brian Wood writes:
> I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
> over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but

A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
Barry's whole rant. Or:

> wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.  

Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
systemd.

I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
system than upstart (more than just boot).

But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.

        ...Akkana



From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 14:25:41 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:25:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some warning.

Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across discussions
with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I sent this.
I'll try to track them back down and add them here.


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com> wrote:

> Jeff Bragg:
> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
> >>
> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>
> I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
> his system.
>
> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
> systemd. Like:
>
> Brian Wood writes:
> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>
> A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>
> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>
> Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
> systemd.
>
> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>
> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>
>         ...Akkana
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 14:33:06 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:33:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>

Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of the
relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second discussion about
it, as far as I can tell.

http://ewontfix.com/14/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some warning.
>
> Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across discussions
> with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I sent this.
> I'll try to track them back down and add them here.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Bragg:
>> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>> >>
>> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>>
>> I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
>> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
>> his system.
>>
>> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
>> systemd. Like:
>>
>> Brian Wood writes:
>> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
>> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>>
>> A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
>> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>>
>> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>>
>> Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
>> systemd.
>>
>> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
>> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
>> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
>> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
>> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
>> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
>> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
>> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
>> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>>
>> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
>> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
>> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
>> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
>> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>>
>>         ...Akkana
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
>
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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Aug 26 14:35:12 2014
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 14:35:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>

Mostly more discussion:

http://lwn.net/Articles/602579/


On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of the
> relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second discussion about
> it, as far as I can tell.
>
> http://ewontfix.com/14/
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some
>> warning.
>>
>> Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across
>> discussions with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I
>> sent this.  I'll try to track them back down and add them here.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff Bragg:
>>> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>>>
>>> I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>>> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
>>> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
>>> his system.
>>>
>>> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
>>> systemd. Like:
>>>
>>> Brian Wood writes:
>>> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
>>> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>>>
>>> A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
>>> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>>>
>>> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>>>
>>> Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
>>> systemd.
>>>
>>> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
>>> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
>>> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
>>> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
>>> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
>>> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
>>> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
>>> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
>>> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>>>
>>> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
>>> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
>>> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
>>> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
>>> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>>>
>>>         ...Akkana
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>
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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 11:34:59 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:34:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: /SF-LUG/Sys.Admin.101.Class
In-Reply-To: <CANe-2te2qM3dC7bkwAfnJZPMeoJTaGoP899junCdzA4-py_F1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANe-2tckSwMuAb6B72VitVh5e4ysCEYYepqWBJZ2d4iqJxPqhQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teKBNQkMyYvCt9hs0ECuLngWLHLr4CaE9G3iC6XwGQD7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2tfpqwt5JQv+SEHH99yo6g2qD9t-Bp-1RRkKer6mdxsbuQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2teBPbNZC8rvF+XQ=oG4qmNFJKg8aDg_4qr2S8HpQ-wKcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANe-2te2qM3dC7bkwAfnJZPMeoJTaGoP899junCdzA4-py_F1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tcqo=Yc6=LOW18aQOqK+8G6Cd7SoTYvAbtwY=fODnmzZQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m) save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community Technology Center)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness
Local MUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...

message ends
_____________

--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...


--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



--

~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...



-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From jim at well.com  Wed Aug 27 12:07:10 2014
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 12:07:10 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>


On my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04.X

$ man systemd
No manual entry for systemd

$ ps aux | grep system
102        987  0.0  0.0  25652  2576 ?        Ss   Aug01   5:02 
dbus-daemon --system --fork --activation=upstart
root      2402  0.0  0.1  95548 12348 ?        S    Aug01   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/system-service/system-service-d
jim      12614  0.0  0.0  13592   932 pts/4    S+   11:58   0:00 grep 
--color=auto system

~$ ps aux | grep init
root         1  0.0  0.0  24568  2524 ?        Ss   Aug01   0:02 /sbin/init


 From Wikipedia
*systemd* is a system management daemon 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_%28computing%29> designed for Linux 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux> and programmed exclusively for the 
Linux API 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel_interfaces#Kernel.E2.80.93user_space_API>. 
For systems using it, it is the first process 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_%28computing%29> which is executed 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_%28computing%29> in user space 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_space> during the Linux startup 
process <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_startup_process>. Therefore, 
systemd serves as the root of the user space's process tree 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_tree>.


JS: I think of the kernel as process 0 and init as process 1.
I read the Wikipedia excerpt as systemd replacing init, i.e.
systemd has process ID 1 and init need not apply.

JS: I find the LKML link uninformative for my experience
(i.e. I feel the need for answers to questions about the
underlying scheme of things--kernel kicks off init and
things go from there: how does systemd fit in, as a
replacement for init or as PID 2 or what, and then what's
the role of init?)





On 08/26/2014 02:35 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote:
> Mostly more discussion:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/602579/
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of
>     the relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second
>     discussion about it, as far as I can tell.
>
>     http://ewontfix.com/14/
>     https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064
>
>
>     On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg
>     <jackofnotrades at gmail.com <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided
>         some warning.
>
>         Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms. I've come across
>         discussions with more detail, I just didn't have the links to
>         hand when I sent this.  I'll try to track them back down and
>         add them here.
>
>
>         On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck
>         <akkana at shallowsky.com <mailto:akkana at shallowsky.com>> wrote:
>
>             Jeff Bragg:
>             >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>             >>
>             >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>
>             I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>             I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no
>             concrete
>             reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it
>             messed up
>             his system.
>
>             It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions
>             caused by
>             systemd. Like:
>
>             Brian Wood writes:
>             > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the
>             same error
>             > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the
>             junk, but
>
>             A couple of lines like that contain more detail than
>             Christopher
>             Barry's whole rant. Or:
>
>             > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>
>             Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument
>             against
>             systemd.
>
>             I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to
>             hear about
>             the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite
>             a bit, and
>             found it a big step backward from SysV init files --
>             mostly because
>             everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries
>             rather than
>             self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change
>             anything
>             about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes
>             quite a lot
>             of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I
>             gather
>             that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more
>             of the
>             system than upstart (more than just boot).
>
>             But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on
>             Jessie
>             or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and
>             their
>             workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually. 
>             "systemd is a
>             trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ...
>             just don't
>             believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>
>                     ...Akkana
>
>             _______________________________________________
>             sf-lug mailing list
>             sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>             http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>             Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From dey.ranjib at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 12:51:46 2014
From: dey.ranjib at gmail.com (Ranjib Dey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 12:51:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
Message-ID: <CAJaqg68JvyOPngjXt0n3wZM3dGLHE5r7MFtUU=qXOE9iykzNug@mail.gmail.com>

systemd is not used as init in ubuntu. hence no pid 1. systemd is composed
of several component, ubuntu uses the logind (user/session management)
component of systemd. Mostly because the older solution (consolekit) is no
longer maintained, and ubuntu needed something thats maintained and
supports policykit (another component in session management). Dbus
integration (provides easier communication protocol to different apps in a
single desktop environment) is another systemd component ubuntu uses (not
sure it a derived requirement from logind).


there are several awesome thing the systemd does (like socket activation),
and initially lot larger group of folks were interested due to those
nifty/slick but very important features. As time went, systemd started
replacing several components that are already stable/manageble  as
independent daemon (i think resolvd was added recently :-) ), and that i
think went worse overtime. it will be interesting what debian and ubuntu
does in future

cheers
ranjib


On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
> On my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04.X
>
> $ man systemd
> No manual entry for systemd
>
> $ ps aux | grep system
> 102        987  0.0  0.0  25652  2576 ?        Ss   Aug01   5:02
> dbus-daemon --system --fork --activation=upstart
> root      2402  0.0  0.1  95548 12348 ?        S    Aug01   0:00
> /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/system-service/system-service-d
> jim      12614  0.0  0.0  13592   932 pts/4    S+   11:58   0:00 grep
> --color=auto system
>
> ~$ ps aux | grep init
> root         1  0.0  0.0  24568  2524 ?        Ss   Aug01   0:02 /sbin/init
>
>
> From Wikipedia
> *systemd* is a system management daemon
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_%28computing%29> designed for Linux
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux> and programmed exclusively for the Linux
> API
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel_interfaces#Kernel.E2.80.93user_space_API>.
> For systems using it, it is the first process
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_%28computing%29> which is executed
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_%28computing%29> in user space
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_space> during the Linux startup process
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_startup_process>. Therefore, systemd
> serves as the root of the user space's process tree
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_tree>.
>
>
> JS: I think of the kernel as process 0 and init as process 1.
> I read the Wikipedia excerpt as systemd replacing init, i.e.
> systemd has process ID 1 and init need not apply.
>
> JS: I find the LKML link uninformative for my experience
> (i.e. I feel the need for answers to questions about the
> underlying scheme of things--kernel kicks off init and
> things go from there: how does systemd fit in, as a
> replacement for init or as PID 2 or what, and then what's
> the role of init?)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/26/2014 02:35 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote:
>
> Mostly more discussion:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/602579/
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of the
>> relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second discussion about
>> it, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> http://ewontfix.com/14/
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some
>>> warning.
>>>
>>>  Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across
>>> discussions with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I
>>> sent this.  I'll try to track them back down and add them here.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff Bragg:
>>>> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>>>>
>>>>  I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>>>> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
>>>> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
>>>> his system.
>>>>
>>>> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
>>>> systemd. Like:
>>>>
>>>> Brian Wood writes:
>>>> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
>>>> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>>>>
>>>>  A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
>>>> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>>>>
>>>> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>>>>
>>>>  Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
>>>> systemd.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
>>>> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
>>>> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
>>>> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
>>>> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
>>>> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
>>>> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
>>>> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
>>>> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>>>>
>>>> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
>>>> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
>>>> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
>>>> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
>>>> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>>>>
>>>>         ...Akkana
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing listsf-lug at linuxmafia.comhttp://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 13:33:45 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:33:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2te2YHm+O6GUpTQsNb5e1N05-qJ=cP1nhjHY4OpLz2LKAQ@mail.gmail.com>

Some things already covered but help 'might' be found here:
<
https://help.ubuntu.com/search.html?cof=FORID%3A9&cx=003883529982892832976%3Ae2vwumte3fq&ie=UTF-8&q=systemd&sa=Search
>

Or at least some further explanation (s)...
Scroll down toward bottom of page once there...

On Wednesday, August 27, 2014, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> On my laptop running Ubuntu 12.04.X
>
> $ man systemd
> No manual entry for systemd
>
> $ ps aux | grep system
> 102        987  0.0  0.0  25652  2576 ?        Ss   Aug01   5:02
dbus-daemon --system --fork --activation=upstart
> root      2402  0.0  0.1  95548 12348 ?        S    Aug01   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/system-service/system-service-d
> jim      12614  0.0  0.0  13592   932 pts/4    S+   11:58   0:00 grep
--color=auto system
>
> ~$ ps aux | grep init
> root         1  0.0  0.0  24568  2524 ?        Ss   Aug01   0:02
/sbin/init
>
>
> From Wikipedia
> systemd is a system management daemon designed for Linux and programmed
exclusively for the Linux API. For systems using it, it is the first
process which is executed in user space during the Linux startup process.
Therefore, systemd serves as the root of the user space's process tree.
>
>
> JS: I think of the kernel as process 0 and init as process 1.
> I read the Wikipedia excerpt as systemd replacing init, i.e.
> systemd has process ID 1 and init need not apply.
>
> JS: I find the LKML link uninformative for my experience
> (i.e. I feel the need for answers to questions about the
> underlying scheme of things--kernel kicks off init and
> things go from there: how does systemd fit in, as a
> replacement for init or as PID 2 or what, and then what's
> the role of init?)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/26/2014 02:35 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote:
>
> Mostly more discussion:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/602579/
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>
>> Here are a couple of links from my history that explain some of the
relevant issues.  The first link is an article, the second discussion about
it, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> http://ewontfix.com/14/
>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7210064
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Brian:  Yes, it does.  Sorry, I probably should have provided some
warning.
>>>
>>> Akkana:  It is light on concrete criticisms.  I've come across
discussions with more detail, I just didn't have the links to hand when I
sent this.  I'll try to track them back down and add them here.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Akkana Peck <akkana at shallowsky.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Bragg:
>>>> >> I'm sympathetic to the points made here.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/8/12/459
>>>>
>>>> I think I'm sympathetic, but ... what are the actual points?
>>>> I see a lot of flameage, and a lot of namecalling, and no concrete
>>>> reasons he hates systemd so much, no details on how it messed up
>>>> his system.
>>>>
>>>> It would be a lot more helpful to write about regressions caused by
>>>> systemd. Like:
>>>>
>>>> Brian Wood writes:
>>>> > I accidentally got a lot of junk in my log file... the same error
>>>> > over and over.  i tried to find a way to clean out the junk, but
>>>>
>>>> A couple of lines like that contain more detail than Christopher
>>>> Barry's whole rant. Or:
>>>>
>>>> > wasn't able to in part because the log was in binary.
>>>>
>>>> Binary logs? Really? Now that's a good concrete argument against
>>>> systemd.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't delved into systemd much, and I'm curious to hear about
>>>> the good and bad about it. I did fight with upstart quite a bit, and
>>>> found it a big step backward from SysV init files -- mostly because
>>>> everything was done with undocumented compiled binaries rather than
>>>> self-documenting shell scripts, so if you wanted to change anything
>>>> about the boot process, you had to download (sometimes quite a lot
>>>> of) C source, read it, and maybe rebuild and install it. I gather
>>>> that's true of systemd too, and that it affects a lot more of the
>>>> system than upstart (more than just boot).
>>>>
>>>> But I haven't hit any actual problems with systemd yet on Jessie
>>>> or Sid.  So I'm curious to hear what the problems are, and their
>>>> workarounds, since I'm sure I'll hit them eventually.  "systemd is a
>>>> trojan. systemd is a medusa ... groups with agendas ... just don't
>>>> believe in freedom" just isn't very enlightening.
>>>>
>>>>         ...Akkana
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>

-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From nbs at sonic.net  Wed Aug 27 15:08:18 2014
From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 15:08:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis,
	Sept. 15: "Scratch: programming for children and other
	not-yet-programmers"
Message-ID: <201408272208.s7RM8IQx005137@bolt.sonic.net>


The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting:

  Monday
  September 15, 2014
  7:00pm - 9:00pm

Presentation:
  "Scratch: programming for children and other not-yet-programmers"

  presented by Bill Kendrick

  Scratch is a multimedia authoring tool that allows anyone to program
  interactive stories, games and animations. A project of the Lifelong
  Kindergarten group of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's
  Media Lab, it was designed especially for children ages 8 to 16, to
  help young people learn to think creatively, think systematically,
  and work collaboratively.

  Scratch is generally used via its website (it's an ActionScript
  application, requiring Adobe Flash). Users may sign up for the website
  and share their creations. However, registration is not required to
  use Scratch. Also, an offline version of the Scratch environment is
  available for Linux, Windows and Mac OS X.

  This presentation will be suitable for both children and adults
  (teachers, parents, would-be-programmers). In it, you'll learn about
  the rich history of languages that lead up to Scratch, how Scratch's
  graphical programming environment works, and learn some Scratch
  basics. We'll also write a simple game, to whet your appetite for
  programming!


About the speaker:

  Bill Kendrick grew up using Logo on Apple ][ computers in elementary
  school, and BASIC on an Atari 1200XL at home. After receiving a BS
  in Computer Science from Sonoma State University, he published an
  assortment of open source games and apps for Linux, including the
  popular children's drawing program Tux Paint, and worked in a variety
  of programming jobs (including both game and web development), and
  is currently acting as Chief Technology Officer of Smashwords, Inc.,
  the world's largest distributor of indie ebooks.

  Bill's 7 year old son recently began using Scratch, and in the course
  of 2 weeks, created (or at least started creating) over 2 dozen games
  and animations.


This meeting will be held at:

  Yolo County Public Library, Mary L. Stephens Davis Branch
  Blancard Meeting Room
  315 East 14th Street
  Davis, CA 95616


For more details on this meeting, visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/#2014.09.15

For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/on.php

------------
About LUGOD:
------------

  The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
  dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source
  and Free Software.

  Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers
  in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater
  Sacramento region.  Events are always free and open to the public.

  You can 'like' LUGOD on Facebook at:
  https://www.facebook.com/LinuxUsersGroupOfDavis
  join the LUGOD group on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lugod/
  and find us on LinkedIn at: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=35879

  Please visit our website for more details:  http://www.lugod.org/


-- 
Bill Kendrick
pr at lugod.org
Public Relations Officer
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/

(Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com )



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Aug 27 18:59:52 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 18:59:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com>
Message-ID: <20140828015952.GN29432@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> I think of the kernel as process 0 and init as process 1.  I read the
> Wikipedia excerpt as systemd replacing init, i.e.  systemd has process
> ID 1 and init need not apply.

Not quite right.  'init' is a Unix system _role_ aka system function
-- involving at minimum being process #1, the ancestor of all other
userspace processes -- a role that can be filled by any of a number of
alternatively usable pieces of software.

The specifc init installed by default in most Linux distros over the past
two decades is one that closely follows the design used in AT&T System V
Unix, hence that init's name, SysVInit.  It's a small, extremely well
debugged, deliberately modest-featured binary compiled from C source.
There have always been some Linux distros that default to a different
init, as Slackware does.  And there are a number of other inits used
by non-typical distros by default, e.g., Gentoo Linux defaults to using
one called OpenRC.

(Note the term 'default':  Distros often offer a choice among several
inits that they package.)

SysVInit's 'init' binary is always /sbin/init, but there's no reason why
some other init mightn't use that file location as well.  Or the
alternative init package might turn /sbin/init into a symbolic link
pointing to its binary elsewhere.

The BSDs (and Slackware) default to an init somewhat different from
SysVInit, one logically enough called BSD init.  Recent Solaris releases
switched from SysVInit to Sun Microsystems's SMF = Service Management
Facility.  Ubuntu is at the moment using Scott James Remnant's 'Upstart'
as that distro's default init.  Apple Macinitosh OS X uses launchd,
after for many releases relying on program launcher SystemStarter
started from a BSD init.

Init processes differ widely in the scope of what system management
tasks they take on:  Some are featureful, others not.  They also differ 
widely in their dependencies, e.g., Upstart and systemd require D-Bus
inter-process communication, and systemd is tied to a number of
facilities available only with the Linux kernel (e.g., udev).




From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Wed Aug 27 20:36:19 2014
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (GMail)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 20:36:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <20140828015952.GN29432@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com> <20140828015952.GN29432@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <244CF7A5-3A65-4EF8-8929-34C0EB4A72C5@gmail.com>

so, what happens if you kill -9 pid #1??

i know my syntax is off but you understand what i meant  

Sent from Dan.

> On Aug 27, 2014, at 18:59, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> 
> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):
> 
>> I think of the kernel as process 0 and init as process 1.  I read the
>> Wikipedia excerpt as systemd replacing init, i.e.  systemd has process
>> ID 1 and init need not apply.
> 
> Not quite right.  'init' is a Unix system _role_ aka system function
> -- involving at minimum being process #1, the ancestor of all other
> userspace processes -- a role that can be filled by any of a number of
> alternatively usable pieces of software.
> 
> The specifc init installed by default in most Linux distros over the past
> two decades is one that closely follows the design used in AT&T System V
> Unix, hence that init's name, SysVInit.  It's a small, extremely well
> debugged, deliberately modest-featured binary compiled from C source.
> There have always been some Linux distros that default to a different
> init, as Slackware does.  And there are a number of other inits used
> by non-typical distros by default, e.g., Gentoo Linux defaults to using
> one called OpenRC.
> 
> (Note the term 'default':  Distros often offer a choice among several
> inits that they package.)
> 
> SysVInit's 'init' binary is always /sbin/init, but there's no reason why
> some other init mightn't use that file location as well.  Or the
> alternative init package might turn /sbin/init into a symbolic link
> pointing to its binary elsewhere.
> 
> The BSDs (and Slackware) default to an init somewhat different from
> SysVInit, one logically enough called BSD init.  Recent Solaris releases
> switched from SysVInit to Sun Microsystems's SMF = Service Management
> Facility.  Ubuntu is at the moment using Scott James Remnant's 'Upstart'
> as that distro's default init.  Apple Macinitosh OS X uses launchd,
> after for many releases relying on program launcher SystemStarter
> started from a BSD init.
> 
> Init processes differ widely in the scope of what system management
> tasks they take on:  Some are featureful, others not.  They also differ 
> widely in their dependencies, e.g., Upstart and systemd require D-Bus
> inter-process communication, and systemd is tied to a number of
> facilities available only with the Linux kernel (e.g., udev).
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Aug 27 20:52:03 2014
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 20:52:03 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] systemd criticism
In-Reply-To: <244CF7A5-3A65-4EF8-8929-34C0EB4A72C5@gmail.com>
References: <CABWFOjt9OP=0gXZDsi-=_isjrJpCqBWVRUVsumYxS53NRtSSbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20140826210327.GN1131@shallowsky.com>
	<CAJ4sp-Ubor4JLqFDNJeEMxP_y5PprhpWBnaWYtJ8w9LuAQoCXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-UezgFt=-R+8=kdurp33Ea0xeTzyqZ19jqsOAFtuqDe-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VF2vJT5PTPetyAXbarYQz5Skyo5v+yNnFaDmdqHhoodA@mail.gmail.com>
	<53FE2C5E.1070106@well.com> <20140828015952.GN29432@linuxmafia.com>
	<244CF7A5-3A65-4EF8-8929-34C0EB4A72C5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20140828035203.GC3525@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting GMail (mmdmurphy at gmail.com):

> so, what happens if you kill -9 pid #1??
> 
> i know my syntax is off but you understand what i meant  
> 
> Sent from Dan.

Hi, Dan.

SysVinit ignores SIGKILL and SIGTERM signals directed at the init
process itself.

There are, as mentioned, quite a number of other init implementations.  
Your question would have to be answered separately for each of them, as
there's nothing inherent about PID #1 that dictates a kill policy.

Anyway, if you're curious what happens if you kill init, why not try and
see for yourself?  It's not necessary to ask a mailing list the answer
to a question you can easily determine just by typing the command and
observing.




From Kenneth_C_Shaffer at comcast.net  Wed Sep 17 14:11:05 2014
From: Kenneth_C_Shaffer at comcast.net (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:11:05 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <1410988265.2920.0.camel@V3000>

Bobbie,
for Grant try grantbow at partimus.org
Ken
On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 12:58 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Hi anyone one this list.
> 	If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me their 
> name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
> 
> 	I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
> form.
> 
> 	Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
> 	and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
> 
> 	So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
> either let them know about this effort.
> 
> 	Bobbie
> 	




From akleider at sonic.net  Wed Sep 17 16:00:49 2014
From: akleider at sonic.net (Alex Kleider)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:00:49 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <d57df45f1b373d66acd325733e0fd4ed@sonic.net>


for Grant, try grantbow at gmail.com.  I think you'll reach him there.
alex

On 2014-09-17 12:58, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Hi anyone one this list.
> If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me their
> name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
> 
> I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
> form.
> 
> Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
> and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
> 
> So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
> either let them know about this effort.
> 
> Bobbie


From grantbow at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 16:16:14 2014
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:16:14 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <d57df45f1b373d66acd325733e0fd4ed@sonic.net>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
	<d57df45f1b373d66acd325733e0fd4ed@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <CA+aHvNrEuw-+BPCLYcAPL=rGm6U-RLGj-qsKeTDPvUBhQYrLfA@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for letting me know about a bounce from grantbow at ubuntu.com. It
should not be bouncing. I'll look into it immediately.

Grant


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alex Kleider <akleider at sonic.net> wrote:

>
> for Grant, try grantbow at gmail.com.  I think you'll reach him there.
> alex
>
> On 2014-09-17 12:58, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>> Hi anyone one this list.
>> If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me their
>> name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
>> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
>>
>> I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
>> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
>> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
>> form.
>>
>> Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
>> and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
>>
>> So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
>> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
>> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
>> either let them know about this effort.
>>
>> Bobbie
>>
>
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From grantbow at partimus.org  Wed Sep 17 16:52:58 2014
From: grantbow at partimus.org (Grant Bowman)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:52:58 -0700
Subject: Hi Grant
In-Reply-To: <541A0DB3.8030508@dslextreme.com>
References: <541A0DB3.8030508@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CA+aHvNqPcaLNN-o_O1oWvm+sYY7MWrmpwEk-YHveLCNE4VOdEA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobby,

balug.org and dvlug.org and svlug.org as well as sf-lug.org were all hosted
on Rick's one box. It's a mess. I just got a new full time job at
safeway.com this week too. Let me know how I can help and I will do what I
can.

Ttys,
Grant
415-375-2752 mobile


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:

>     As you might know or have guessed the
> SF-LUG mailing list is down.  Rich Moen is out
> of town for an indefinite period.
> Earlier my post to you to test the list bounced
> at the ubuntu.com address.
>     If you want to be on the temporary arrangement I
> have volunteered to be responsible for, let me know
> and I will add your address to my template.
>
>     If you have any thing to post you can send it to
> me and I will will repost to all of of the addresses I have
> salvaged.  Or you can just edit one of the templated posts
> I am sending out and send it to everyone but me.
> For all I know you have all the addresses you need for that
> already.  But as long as SF-LUG mailing list is down
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Sep 17 18:24:44 2014
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:24:44 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4rnLr68GW6GqdBhDjmzjzKnvWubjj54ZdV6Dhj9nF5NBw@mail.gmail.com>

Here is Grant's email address

On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:

> Hi anyone one this list.
>         If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me
> their name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
>
>         I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
> form.
>
>         Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
>         and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
>
>         So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
> either let them know about this effort.
>
>         Bobbie
>
>



-- 
Christian Einfeldt
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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 09:11:16 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:11:16 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list and Linux Pro magazine for September
In-Reply-To: <5419E141.8070302@dslextreme.com>
References: <5419E141.8070302@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tfpPW6N4FzTkdC0C8mTNBRCBrvPQOrJQz4QkKuHJS-jNg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks bobbie...
Hope you don't mind we will use this thread to also remind everyone that
the SF-LUG associated Linux Sys.Admin 101 Class will meet today 15:00-17:00
@ the Western Addition Community Tech. Center in downtown S.F. on Turk St.
/Gough~/Laguna St.s right across from the park...
Two blocks west of VanNess St. ...

Sign-in (with whatever name you want) @ front desk and come through to the
back we are in first classroom...

People from last nights Linux meeting @ NB will be there & ALL are
welcome...

We are currently working with CentOs & Debian software...

Message ends.
_________________

On Wednesday, September 17, 2014, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Hi anyone one this list.
>         If you know anyone who was on the SF-LUG mailing list have them
send me their name and I will add it to my list.
>         I will forward any mail sent to me to be posted to my little list.
>
>         I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member please Let me know
> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
> form.
>
>         So I am have that out of the way let me tell you that Linux Pro
> Magazine is on the stands Issue 166 for September 2014
>         The DVD of the month is Fedora 20 on one side and CentOS 7 on
> the other side.
>         There are as usual interesting articles one is on what Red Hat
> is doing.  One on Cinnamon and Mate, another to introduce the LXQT and
> one about XFce.
>         Featured articles cover systemd and networkd. the Meson build
system,and using Perl to set up a responsive web site.
>         And much more...
>         I will be bringing this issue to the next meeting on October 5
> at the Cafe Enchante.  I will publish the regular notice of the meeting
> on September 29 and anything else that I find of interest between now
> and then whenever Rick Moen returns and fixs the regular mailing list.
>
>         Don't forget the Noisebridge meeting tonight.  If you
> want details respond to me and I will send them out asap.
>
>
>         Thanks for your attention!
>
>         Bobbie Sellers aka bliss
>

-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 12:30:14 2014
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:30:14 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rnLr68GW6GqdBhDjmzjzKnvWubjj54ZdV6Dhj9nF5NBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
	<CAJdae4rnLr68GW6GqdBhDjmzjzKnvWubjj54ZdV6Dhj9nF5NBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+aHvNpOJCHoaXP6_66sGZ42_8Y38TmwvbUELXq7AKeLyYw=Bw@mail.gmail.com>

Alex also let me know grantbow at ubuntu.com was bouncing. It was my mistake
for letting it expire in the launchpad group. I will never miss an
expiration notice again. I filed a ticket with rt at ubuntu.com and it was
fixed. It will be back online within 48 hours. Thanks for letting me know.

I accepted a position Application Support Engineer III with safeway.com
working in Pleasanton starting Mon, Sept 28th. Dylan Reinhold referred me,
a dvlug.org attendee. I don't get my first paycheck until Oct 9th. I'm
struggling in more ways than one until then.

-- Grant


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here is Grant's email address
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:58 PM, Bobbie Sellers <
> bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi anyone one this list.
>>         If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me
>> their name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
>> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
>>
>>         I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
>> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
>> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
>> form.
>>
>>         Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
>>         and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
>>
>>         So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
>> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
>> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
>> either let them know about this effort.
>>
>>         Bobbie
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Christian Einfeldt
>
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Thu Sep 18 12:31:15 2014
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:31:15 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
In-Reply-To: <CA+aHvNrEuw-+BPCLYcAPL=rGm6U-RLGj-qsKeTDPvUBhQYrLfA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>
	<d57df45f1b373d66acd325733e0fd4ed@sonic.net>
	<CA+aHvNrEuw-+BPCLYcAPL=rGm6U-RLGj-qsKeTDPvUBhQYrLfA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+aHvNoXcWG3w3Fa8LSXELg_92nNV5Uz0NS7urhfeT6iUuNpAg@mail.gmail.com>

It was my mistake for letting it expire in the launchpad group. I will
never miss an expiration notice again. I filed a ticket with rt at ubuntu.com
and it was fixed. It will be back online within 48 hours. Thanks again for
letting me know. -- Grant


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Grant Bowman <grantbow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for letting me know about a bounce from grantbow at ubuntu.com. It
> should not be bouncing. I'll look into it immediately.
>
> Grant
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Alex Kleider <akleider at sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> for Grant, try grantbow at gmail.com.  I think you'll reach him there.
>> alex
>>
>> On 2014-09-17 12:58, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>> Hi anyone one this list.
>>> If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me their
>>> name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
>>> sent to me to be posted to my little list.
>>>
>>> I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
>>> put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
>>> so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
>>> form.
>>>
>>> Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
>>> and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.
>>>
>>> So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
>>> and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
>>> they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
>>> either let them know about this effort.
>>>
>>> Bobbie
>>>
>>
>
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From ola at telmate.com  Thu Sep 18 10:08:56 2014
From: ola at telmate.com (Ola Peters)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:08:56 -0700
Subject: Updated:SF-LUG mail list.
In-Reply-To: <541B0725.4070005@dslextreme.com>
References: <541B0725.4070005@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAMCHivnDHothoFrOVXsQyeMsbDAZycxNPZMfo7exvz07UpA7jg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbie,

I should be on the SFLug list.

Thanks,

Ola

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:

>         Yes just an update.
>         Anyone who wants to raise a question can use it
> by merely removing this little message and picking mail to
> all.
>
>         As to how this may be resolved does anyone know when Rick Moen
> will be returning?  Or planned to return?
>
>         Bobbie Sellers
>



-- 
*Ola Peters/Linux Admin*
*Telmate*
655 Montgomery Street, 18th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94111
Direct 707.812.4332
Customer Service / USA (866) 516-0115 / Canada (866) 713-4761
www.Telmate.com <http://www.telmate.com/> | www.GettingOut.com
<http://www.gettingout.com/> | GettingOut Facebook
<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gettingout/494201843984720>


[image: Telmate] <http://www.telmate.com/>
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Sep 19 20:22:45 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:22:45 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
Message-ID: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>


	
	Hello Luggers,
		While the mailing list is down we are using this
manualy relay to communicate,  I hope that Rick Moen comes back soon
and fixes this so that we won't have to continue to use to this 
primitive form of mailing list.

Ken Schaffer wrote me earlier and I have added this names which he
culled from his archives to the list.  Thanks Ken!

	If anyone here wants off the list let us know.
OTHER WISE make a copy of this message edit it and
save it to Templates then when you want to tell the
group something edit the template and insert your
message and we will all get a copy.

Some others I picked out of old mail:
  marksobell at gmail.com
hardy stevenson <bloonoise at gmail.com>
Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org>
Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com>
Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com
Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
Charles-Henri Gros <charles-henri.gros at m4x.org>


	Have a good night.

	Bobbie Sellers


From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Sep 19 20:22:45 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:22:45 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
Message-ID: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>


	
	Hello Luggers,
		While the mailing list is down we are using this
manualy relay to communicate,  I hope that Rick Moen comes back soon
and fixes this so that we won't have to continue to use to this 
primitive form of mailing list.

Ken Schaffer wrote me earlier and I have added this names which he
culled from his archives to the list.  Thanks Ken!

	If anyone here wants off the list let us know.
OTHER WISE make a copy of this message edit it and
save it to Templates then when you want to tell the
group something edit the template and insert your
message and we will all get a copy.

Some others I picked out of old mail:
  marksobell at gmail.com
hardy stevenson <bloonoise at gmail.com>
Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org>
Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com>
Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com
Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
Charles-Henri Gros <charles-henri.gros at m4x.org>


	Have a good night.

	Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Sep 18 20:56:43 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:56:43 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG - a bit or so of information
Message-ID: <541BA97B.7080806@dslextreme.com>

Found this on another mailing.
    "I made my first infographic on Debian, which sought to put all the
information (possible) I have in my lecture on this great project. What
motivated me to make this stuff was the difficulty that the general
public has to understand Debian, its areas, their numbers or their
general operation."

<http://cfnarede.com.br/infographic-of-debian>

HUGE picture.  2.2 Megabyte PNG

`It may help the less knowledgeable understand more about
Debian.

	I have downloaded the latest Knoppix 7.4.1
which I found on Distrowatch when I went to look for
a Fedora Variant called Chapeau which is aimed
at gamers with high end equipment, which I read
about in Linux Pro magazine.

	Bobbie
	

From akkana at shallowsky.com  Sat Sep 20 10:18:17 2014
From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 11:18:17 -0600
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
In-Reply-To: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>
References: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <20140920171817.GD963@shallowsky.com>

Please take me off the temporary list.  I'm definitely not
interested in constant updates of exactly who is on the list,
and I'm really only on sf-lug for the occasional technical Linux
discussions.

        ...Akkana

Bobbie Sellers writes:
> 
> 	
> 	Hello Luggers,
> 		While the mailing list is down we are using this
> manualy relay to communicate,  I hope that Rick Moen comes back soon
> and fixes this so that we won't have to continue to use to this primitive
> form of mailing list.
> 
> Ken Schaffer wrote me earlier and I have added this names which he
> culled from his archives to the list.  Thanks Ken!
> 
> 	If anyone here wants off the list let us know.
> OTHER WISE make a copy of this message edit it and
> save it to Templates then when you want to tell the
> group something edit the template and insert your
> message and we will all get a copy.
> 
> Some others I picked out of old mail:
>  marksobell at gmail.com
> hardy stevenson <bloonoise at gmail.com>
> Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
> Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org>
> Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
> Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com>
> Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com
> Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
> Charles-Henri Gros <charles-henri.gros at m4x.org>
> 
> 
> 	Have a good night.
> 
> 	Bobbie Sellers


From bloonoise at gmail.com  Sat Sep 20 00:26:08 2014
From: bloonoise at gmail.com (bloonoise)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 00:26:08 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
In-Reply-To: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>
References: <541CF305.4050107@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <541D2C10.8050701@gmail.com>

was wondering what was going on......
right on!
  I guess Rich Moen is off somewhere finding the meaning of life, 
dunno......?
No announcement...???? beyond this.



On 09/19/14 20:22, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>
>     Hello Luggers,
>         While the mailing list is down we are using this
> manualy relay to communicate,  I hope that Rick Moen comes back soon
> and fixes this so that we won't have to continue to use to this 
> primitive form of mailing list.
>
> Ken Schaffer wrote me earlier and I have added this names which he
> culled from his archives to the list.  Thanks Ken!
>
>     If anyone here wants off the list let us know.
> OTHER WISE make a copy of this message edit it and
> save it to Templates then when you want to tell the
> group something edit the template and insert your
> message and we will all get a copy.
>
> Some others I picked out of old mail:
>  marksobell at gmail.com
> hardy stevenson <bloonoise at gmail.com>
> Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
> Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org>
> Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
> Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com>
> Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com
> Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
> Charles-Henri Gros <charles-henri.gros at m4x.org>
>
>
>     Have a good night.
>
>     Bobbie Sellers

-- 
end***************************************************
              (((bloonoise at gmail.com)))
    'why accept anything less when you have me'
                                                          
*****************************************************
                                                                          
                     



From Kenneth_C_Shaffer at comcast.net  Fri Sep 19 20:02:46 2014
From: Kenneth_C_Shaffer at comcast.net (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:02:46 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
In-Reply-To: <541B2069.1040005@dslextreme.com>
References: <541B2069.1040005@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <1411182166.3276.13.camel@V3000>

Some others I picked out of old mail:
 marksobell at gmail.com
hardy stevenson <bloonoise at gmail.com>
Alison Chaiken <alchaiken at gmail.com>
Shane Tzen <shane at faultymonk.org>
Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com>
Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com>
Samir Faci <samir at esamir.com
Ronald Petty <ronald.petty at gmail.com>
Charles-Henri Gros <charles-henri.gros at m4x.org>




On Thu, 2014-09-18 at 11:11 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Just one name added:
> 
> 	Ola Peters <addedola at telmate.com>




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 24 09:06:27 2014
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:06:27 -0700
Subject: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 1800 PDT SF-LUG Weekly Linux Discussion Group at Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1411574787.98896.YahooMailNeo@web181706.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Bobbie,

Could you please send out the following message for me?

Thank you.

Joseph

-----

The
 SF-LUG hosts a general Linux Discussion Group meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in 
the Turing classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph

-----
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From grantbow at partimus.org  Fri Sep 19 12:03:43 2014
From: grantbow at partimus.org (Grant Bowman)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:03:43 -0700
Subject: Hi Grant
In-Reply-To: <541A39FC.7000508@dslextreme.com>
References: <541A0DB3.8030508@dslextreme.com>
	<CA+aHvNqPcaLNN-o_O1oWvm+sYY7MWrmpwEk-YHveLCNE4VOdEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<541A39FC.7000508@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CA+aHvNrmSQ0aK+64MrdJRVRLuVLurvL=X70Xkk=Oq7Z6xcfBiQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm moving to a mailgun.com email list for dvlug.org hosted by rick by
linuxmafia.com. I will fix things up when rick gets back. I have to run but
I'll talk to you soon. Can I call you? At what number? Please include me on
any lists.

Grant


On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:48 PM, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:

>
> On 09/17/2014 04:52 PM, Grant Bowman wrote:
>
> Hi Bobby,
>
>  balug.org and dvlug.org and svlug.org as well as sf-lug.org were all
> hosted on Rick's one box. It's a mess. I just got a new full time job at
> safeway.com this week too. Let me know how I can help and I will do what
> I can.
>
>  Ttys,
> Grant
> 415-375-2752 mobile
>
>
>     Well I am glad I got to you Grant.
>     i am just using a manual relay mail scheme.
>     But I don't know when Rick will return and get it fixed
> up.  If you know someone who would have time to
> run a mail server I have a Dell tower with 2 GiB of ram
> and a 500 gigabyte hard drive that might be useful.  I got
> it a couple of months back from John Strazzarino and had
> intended it for another use.
> .  Maybe someone you know could check up on when Rick
>  may return as this would help make decisions about how
> to overcome this problem.
>
>     Jim is going traveling with his g/f to Paris I believe.
>
>     Take your time getting back to me.
>     i am very tired by recent necessary exertions.
>
>     Bobbie Sellers.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Bobbie Sellers <
> bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>>     As you might know or have guessed the
>> SF-LUG mailing list is down.  Rich Moen is out
>> of town for an indefinite period.
>> Earlier my post to you to test the list bounced
>> at the ubuntu.com address.
>>     If you want to be on the temporary arrangement I
>> have volunteered to be responsible for, let me know
>> and I will add your address to my template.
>>
>>     If you have any thing to post you can send it to
>> me and I will will repost to all of of the addresses I have
>> salvaged.  Or you can just edit one of the templated posts
>> I am sending out and send it to everyone but me.
>> For all I know you have all the addresses you need for that
>> already.  But as long as SF-LUG mailing list is down
>>
>>     Bobbie Sellers
>>
>
>
>
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From maestro415 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 24 08:29:02 2014
From: maestro415 at gmail.com (maestro)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:29:02 -0700
Subject: Meetings this weeK?
In-Reply-To: <5422D491.4020506@dslextreme.com>
References: <5422D491.4020506@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CANe-2tf0ecV7eDSajfT_L_gQHrYFUBRuY-B55B0mVxsqdgdj9A@mail.gmail.com>

The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m)save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community TechnologyCenter)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness LocalMUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

Disclaimer to SF-LUG admins:
This mail will be cycled weekly as a regular class announcement in the same
vain as SF-LUG meetings.

Thank you...


message ends
_____________

On Wednesday, September 24, 2014, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>     Have received no reminders to be transmitted to the community.
>     Without the regular mailing list it seems sort of futile I think
but...
>
>     bliss
>

-- 

*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Sep  3 13:04:43 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:04:43 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG meeting on Sunday 7 September 2014
Message-ID: <5407745B.50604@dslextreme.com>

Hi Jim and Rick, et al.
	I tried to post this to the list but it bounces like a rubber ball.  I 
winnowed what addresses i could find from the little bit of the
mailing list mail I presently have at hand..

	
	Bobbie


Hello again LUGgers,
     Hope everyone is having a good Labor Day weekend holiday.

    SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     As I noted Eric brought the DVD for Knoppix 7.4.0 to the last
meeting so I have gotten it installed to a USB Flash Drive.  If any
one needs a copy let me know and I will try to have it for you on
disk at the meeting.  To get this on USB I might have to charge
a bit.
     I also have gotten the .iso 64 bit of PCLOS 2014.08 with KDE,
have that on a disk and on USB Flash Drive.
     All these were check summed before writing and my disks
are always verified after writing.  These were done using the
built-in utilities for that purpose in the respective distributions.
     Both have been tested on my machine and seem to do what
they are supposed to do.

     Meeting times are nominal so do not come too late.

    Thanks for your attention.

     Bobbie Sellers


From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Sep  9 08:12:12 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 08:12:12 -0700
Subject: Mailing list?
Message-ID: <540F18CC.1010802@dslextreme.com>

     Good day Jim,

         I posted to the list yesterday and have no bounce message.
         Dare I hope that the mailing list is up again?
     Remember due to the strange implementation of POP3 on my e-mail
provider I cannot in any event see my own postings.

     Hope you are doing OK.    Hope you are exercising as that should
help you deal with the stresses of travel.

     Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Sep 11 12:29:33 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:29:33 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
In-Reply-To: <047d7bf0c5447c06b00502cef18d@google.com>
References: <047d7bf0c5447c06b00502cef18d@google.com>
Message-ID: <5411F81D.2000500@dslextreme.com>




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Delivery Status Notification (Failure)
Date: 	Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:12:01 +0000
From: 	Mail Delivery Subsystem <mailer-daemon at googlemail.com>
To: 	bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com



Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

      sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

Technical details of permanent failure:
The recipient server did not accept our requests to connect. Learn more at http://support.google.com/mail/bin/answer.py?answer=7720
[(10) linuxmafia.com. [198.144.195.186]:25: Connection timed out]

----- Original message -----

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Message-ID: <540DDFD5.409 at dslextreme.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 09:56:53 -0700
From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.8.0
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To: SF-LUG <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: SF-LUG next meeting Monday September 15,2014
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    Hi Luggers,
      Well today is September 8th, the mailing list has been down since the
27th of August so I am writing this with little hope at this point that
it will be up for anyone to read.

   SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

      These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

      Meeting times are nominal so that if you come after 7:30 PM
we may have left.

    The last meeting of Sunday September 7th was lightly attended.
      I got there about 10:45 and setup my machine without problems
aside from telling it to connect to the Cafe Enchante WiFi.
      Before 11 AM and before I could connect to the WiFi Ken Shaffer
and his wife showed up.
      We had a great time talking and I showed off my portable archive
which consists of the 500 (really 465)GiB drive that I salvaged from
my old Compaq a while back.in a slim USB 3 case.  Likely I will be
bringing it along to the future meetings.
      Ken was running his netbook off a USB flash drive.
      Ken brought along goodies which will go via Jim to Noisebridge.
      Finally a bit before Noon I believe Jim showed up.
      Multiple discussion went on including the problems people have
with systemd the replacement for initd.  These discussions of the
new startup program were worked over in the week before the
mailing list went down and on one of my subscribed Linux newsgroups
at length.  Maybe it will start up again when the mailing list comes
back up.
      I think something more like the old Amiga startup script and
user-startup scripts were an easy way to deal with getting things
running but the Linux initializing programs  are much more remote
from my experience and systemd sounds less comprehensible and
even more remote to me.

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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Sep 12 22:47:38 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 22:47:38 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG next meeting Monday September 15,2014
Message-ID: <5413DA7A.8020401@dslextreme.com>

Hi Jim and Rick, et al.
	I tried to post this to the list but it still bounces like a rubber 
ball.  I winnowed what addresses i could find from the little bit of the 
mailing list mail I presently have at hand..

	
	Bobbie


  SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Meeting times are nominal so that if you come after 7:30 PM
we may have left.

   The last meeting of Sunday September 7th was lightly attended.
     I got there about 10:45 and setup my machine without problems
aside from telling it to connect to the Cafe Enchante WiFi.
     Before 11 AM and before I could connect to the WiFi Ken Shaffer
and his wife showed up.
     We had a great time talking and I showed off my portable archive
which consists of the 500 (really 465)GiB drive that I salvaged from
my old Compaq a while back.in a slim USB 3 case.  Likely I will be
bringing it along to the future meetings.
     Ken was running his netbook off a USB flash drive.
     Ken brought along goodies which will go via Jim to Noisebridge.
     Finally a bit before Noon I believe Jim showed up.
     Multiple discussion went on including the problems people have
with systemd the replacement for initd.  These discussions of the
new startup program were worked over in the week before the
mailing list went down and on one of my subscribed Linux newsgroups
at length.  Maybe it will start up again when the mailing list comes
back up.
     I think something more like the old Amiga startup script and
user-startup scripts were an easy way to deal with getting things
running but the Linux initializing programs  are much more remote
from my experience and systemd sounds less comprehensible and
even more remote to me.
     Strangely enough with Mageia 4 I am using it every day.  It seldoms
offers me problems but...
     Jim brought along some magazines and disks which he had forgotten
the orgins of.  They looked interesting but those were the ones he
took home.
     The meeting adjouned about 12:55 and Jim kindly gave me a ride home

     Bobbie Sellers


From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Sep 16 09:15:41 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:15:41 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG Monday September 15,2014 - notes
Message-ID: <5418622D.1040006@dslextreme.com>

Hi anyone on this list.
	If you know anyone who was on the SF-LUG mailing list
have them send me their name and I will add it to my very short
list.
I will forward any mail sent to me to be posted to my little list.

	Arrived at the Cafe Enchante about 17:40.
	The Cafe was very crowded with only 2 tables at the front
   open.  This lead to an awkward arrangement of tables but about
   7 PM a table opened in time for Eric to sit down.  Otherwise one
   small round table with 4 adults seated around it as I turned the
   notebook back and forth.  At some point my power cord fell out
   of the socket but it presented no problem until I was rebooting
back to Mageia 4.1 after getting Knoppix up briefly.
	A tall blond man of mature years whose name I missed was on the
scene by the time I got there.  He thought more people would be there
earlier but it only 18:45 when he asked.  Shortly after that Joseph Puig
showed up, then Maestro wandered in and about an hour after that
Eric showed up.  Joseph P. said that he thought he better start
coming to meetings.
	Maestro was having problems using a wild card in a shell 	
situation and eventually after trying to use a wild card in the
shell myself..
	Well I demonstrated the latest addition to my distribution
library Gentoo 20140826 livedvd-amd64-multilib-20140826.iso.
I think it is a great novelty to have a live (aka boot up and run from
the DVD and from ram) distro with the Gentoo name on it and the Iron
Penguin label.  This is a fine distribution and is ready for efi/uefi
installations.  It uses KDE and I figured out how to connect with
wap_supplicant(spelling is probably incorrect).

	Joseph Puig gave me some instruction in the use of the shell
in bash and xterm.  J.P.is one of the members that i hope will show
up more often.  Well I would be hard put to think of any member of the
LUG that I would not be glad to see.  I wish I could engage in the
activities that they are involved it but my health would suffer from
further exertions.

	The tall blonde man left about 7 as he had to return to the East
   Bay.  He was interested in Gentoo but seemed to be running a Mac. He 
had been to a meeting at the old Java Cat coffee shop back   years ago. 
   He asked some simple questions. and he has my email address if he 
decides to get a copy of any distribution. Sorry his name escaped me.

	Eric enjoyed reading the late copy of the Linux Pro magazine
and spoke briefly about the last meeting of the Bay*LUG at the
4 Seasons restaurant mention 186 meeting in that place.
The Meeting on Tuesday is the final meeting at the 4 Seasons and I
hope that where ever they move they meet more times than they
have met before.  I make it over 15 years so they started, about
the time that they could get a Linux kernel to use.
	
	We 4 remaining all left about 8 PM and proceeded to our separate 
destinations via 38 and 38L buses at least to start.

	I hope to read corrections and emendations shortly.

	Thanks for your attention.

	Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Sep 16 19:22:43 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 19:22:43 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG Noisebridge Wednesday meeting
Message-ID: <5418F073.9020503@dslextreme.com>

Joseph Puig asked me to forward this to my abbreviated list.


The SF-LUG hosts a general Linux Discussion Group meeting at Noisebridge 
on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in 
San Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net


	later
	bliss

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Sep 17 12:30:09 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:30:09 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list and Linux Pro magazine for September
Message-ID: <5419E141.8070302@dslextreme.com>

Hi anyone one this list.
	If you know anyone who was on the SF-LUG mailing list have them send me 
their name and I will add it to my list.
	I will forward any mail sent to me to be posted to my little list.

	I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
put you on this list and you are not a LUG member please Let me know
so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
form.

	So I am have that out of the way let me tell you that Linux Pro
Magazine is on the stands Issue 166 for September 2014
	The DVD of the month is Fedora 20 on one side and CentOS 7 on
the other side.
	There are as usual interesting articles one is on what Red Hat
is doing.  One on Cinnamon and Mate, another to introduce the LXQT and
one about XFce.
	Featured articles cover systemd and networkd. the Meson build 
system,and using Perl to set up a responsive web site.
	And much more...
	I will be bringing this issue to the next meeting on October 5
at the Cafe Enchante.  I will publish the regular notice of the meeting
on September 29 and anything else that I find of interest between now
and then whenever Rick Moen returns and fixs the regular mailing list.

	Don't forget the Noisebridge meeting tonight.  If you
want details respond to me and I will send them out asap.

	
	Thanks for your attention!

	Bobbie Sellers aka bliss

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Sep 17 12:58:06 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:58:06 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names on this list-followup 1.
Message-ID: <5419E7CE.2030803@dslextreme.com>

Hi anyone one this list.
	If you know anyone who was on the mailing list have them send me their 
name and I will add it to my list.  I will forward any mail
sent to me to be posted to my little list.

	I am digging thru my old contact list and if I have mistakenly
put you on this list and you are not a LUG member Please Let me know
so that I can remove you from the list which I am keeping on a template
form.

	Well I got bounces from Grant Bowman  <grantbow at ubuntu.com>
	and from Vincent Polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>.

	So if anyone has good addresses for these two let me know
and if they don't care to share I will put them on bcc:  Or maybe
they have acceptable mail lists and if you are a correspondent of
either let them know about this effort.

	Bobbie
	

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Sep 18 09:24:05 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:24:05 -0700
Subject: Updated:SF-LUG mail list.
Message-ID: <541B0725.4070005@dslextreme.com>

	Yes just an update.
	Anyone who wants to raise a question can use it
by merely removing this little message and picking mail to
all.

	As to how this may be resolved does anyone know when Rick Moen
will be returning?  Or planned to return?

	Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Sep 18 11:11:53 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:11:53 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
Message-ID: <541B2069.1040005@dslextreme.com>

Just one name added:

	Ola Peters <addedola at telmate.com>

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Sep 24 08:31:40 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:31:40 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG Meetings at WATC
Message-ID: <5422E3DC.8050005@dslextreme.com>


	The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others is 
holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m)save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community TechnologyCenter)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness LocalMUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on 
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

	Thanks for your attention!

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Sep 24 10:42:25 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:42:25 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG Noisebridge Meeting tonight
Message-ID: <54230281.3040809@dslextreme.com>

Sent at Joseph Puig's request.

The SF-LUG hosts a general Linux Discussion Group meeting at Noisebridge 
on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in 
San Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph


From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Sep 25 21:54:58 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:54:58 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG - Shell Shock BASH vulnerability
Message-ID: <5424F1A2.2050103@dslextreme.com>


     Hi Luggers,
	Just occurred to me that few people depending on the mailing list may 
have heard about this.
	So far most of the active distributions have supplied an update.

	The test for the flaw in protection is too open a shell and
type or copy the following line.

env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test"

	This is what I get after my update to bash earlier today.

[bliss at hpnotebox ~]$ env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo 
this is a test"
bash: warning: x: ignoring function definition attempt
bash: error importing function definition for `x'
this is a test
[bliss at hpnotebox ~]$

	So please check your shell if you haven't done so already and
take the bash update from your distribution's repositories.

	Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Sep 26 14:05:11 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:05:11 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG - *New*  BASH vulnerability
Message-ID: <5425D507.2070000@dslextreme.com>


     Hi Luggers,

	Just occurred to me that few people depending on the mailing list may 
have heard about this.
	So far most of the active distributions have supplied an update.
	==================================
Friday, September 26, 2014

	That was yesterday but the story was not over. The new code was
flawed and further revisions will be required.

<http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/09/new-shellshock-patch-rushed-out-to-resolve-gaps-in-first-fix/>

	Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Sep 29 07:19:16 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:19:16 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
Message-ID: <54296A64.9030800@dslextreme.com>

Hi Luggers,
	    SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Meeting times are nominal so try to get to the meeting
before the halfway point.

     I will have the latest Linux Pro which currently is for September 
2014 and features a double-sided DVD withCentOS 7 and Fedora 20 (Robotic 
Spin which I gather has something to with controlling Robots..   Both 
are for 64 bit processors.
	It contains articles on desktop environments, Cinnamon and Mate, Xfce 
and LXQt.
     If anyone wants a copy of CentOS 7 or this version of Fedora 20
kindly let me know by Thursday so that I have time to get it made.
      It also has articles on the changes to Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
Network Configuration with networkd, Managing Clusters with pdsh
a parallel shell, Paperwork to scan and digitize documents, GPS Tools
to Analyze your geodata in Linux and Meson for a better build system.
And a lot of stuff that would take a post the size of the magazine to
mention.
     It also has ads for Emperor Linux for people willing to invest in 
the ultra high end machines.  The advertised prices are deceptive as a 
visit to www.emprerorlinux.com will show.  I also checked out ZaReason 
as to pricing on similar machines and it is quite competitive.

     Bobbie Sellers

From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Sep 29 07:19:16 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:19:16 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG the names latest update
Message-ID: <54296A64.9030800@dslextreme.com>

Hi Luggers,
	    SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
and every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Meeting times are nominal so try to get to the meeting
before the halfway point.

     I will have the latest Linux Pro which currently is for September 
2014 and features a double-sided DVD withCentOS 7 and Fedora 20 (Robotic 
Spin which I gather has something to with controlling Robots..   Both 
are for 64 bit processors.
	It contains articles on desktop environments, Cinnamon and Mate, Xfce 
and LXQt.
     If anyone wants a copy of CentOS 7 or this version of Fedora 20
kindly let me know by Thursday so that I have time to get it made.
      It also has articles on the changes to Red Hat Enterprise Linux,
Network Configuration with networkd, Managing Clusters with pdsh
a parallel shell, Paperwork to scan and digitize documents, GPS Tools
to Analyze your geodata in Linux and Meson for a better build system.
And a lot of stuff that would take a post the size of the magazine to
mention.
     It also has ads for Emperor Linux for people willing to invest in 
the ultra high end machines.  The advertised prices are deceptive as a 
visit to www.emprerorlinux.com will show.  I also checked out ZaReason 
as to pricing on similar machines and it is quite competitive.

     Bobbie Sellers


From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Sep 29 07:47:54 2014
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:47:54 -0700
Subject: SF-LUG  Weekly meeting reminders for Wednesday Oct 1 and Thursday
 Oct 2
Message-ID: <5429711A.1030609@dslextreme.com>

The facilitators of these meeting should send any corrections or 
emendations to not only the mailer but to all the names on the mailing
list(assuming you have that option in directing your mail.)

	bliss

	==================================

The SF-LUG hosts a general Linux Discussion Group meeting at Noisebridge 
on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in 
San Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph

	==================================

     The Linux Study Group in direct association with SF-LUG and others 
is holding a Sys.Admin 101 class and learn by doing sessions...

When: Every Thursday 15:00-17:00 (03:00-05:00 p.m)save holidays

Where: Downtown S.F.
1003 Turk St. /Gough & /Laguna
WACTC (Western Addition Community TechnologyCenter)

Please SIGN-IN when you arrive @ the front desk

Access: Wheelchair accessible
BART => Civic Center
MUNI rail => Van Ness LocalMUNI buses => 31, 5, 38, 49, 47, 24, 16,

or just walk through beautiful S.F.

Please bring your laptop if you have one, we do  have some hardware on 
premises.

Everyone welcome, different skill levels attend and teach/learn/share.

     Thanks for your attention!
	Maestro