From audvare at gmail.com  Sun Jul  1 21:49:41 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:49:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Hello
Message-ID: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>

Hello, I am new to the area (living in Berkely, working in SF). I have been 
using Linux for years and have been using Gentoo since 2007. Any fellow Gentoo 
users here?

I was lucky enough that my new job let me install Gentoo natively on the 
Macbook Air they gave me (what a hassle too, but it's worth it!).
-- 
Andrew Udvare
http://andrew.udvare.com/



From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul  4 11:48:31 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 11:48:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1341427711.29047.YahooMailRC@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Happy Independence Day!

Come join the SF-LUG Linux Study Group in celebrating our software freedom today 

by gathering and talking about our favorite operating systems and applications.  

We'll light the fuse at 1800 PDT in the Turing classroom, and hang around until 
the smoke clears.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph




From samir at esamir.com  Wed Jul  4 20:44:20 2012
From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 20:44:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Hello
In-Reply-To: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>
References: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>
Message-ID: <CAJ7OkQ9o-eoQsH4DZyeyTxaL0RgDVAoVaVfiFQSCzBTg+1fZKw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Andrew,

   I actually just moved to the general area myself.  Just south of
San Francisco (San Mateo/Foster City depending on who you ask ).

I used gentoo for about 5 year or so.... I moved over to a mix of Arch
/ Ubuntu now depending on what  I
want to do with the machine.

though +1 for gentoo if you have the patience for it.




On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Andrew Udvare <audvare at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, I am new to the area (living in Berkely, working in SF). I have been
> using Linux for years and have been using Gentoo since 2007. Any fellow Gentoo
> users here?
>
> I was lucky enough that my new job let me install Gentoo natively on the
> Macbook Air they gave me (what a hassle too, but it's worth it!).
> --
> Andrew Udvare
> http://andrew.udvare.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



-- 
Samir Faci
*insert title*
fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow



From audvare at gmail.com  Wed Jul  4 21:45:41 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 21:45:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Hello
In-Reply-To: <CAJ7OkQ9o-eoQsH4DZyeyTxaL0RgDVAoVaVfiFQSCzBTg+1fZKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>
	<CAJ7OkQ9o-eoQsH4DZyeyTxaL0RgDVAoVaVfiFQSCzBTg+1fZKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGpKHVBqSY75N7BsxAYZN5OycX3bMRHHX4eO4=4rT9p2sg@mail.gmail.com>

Cool. I used Ubuntu daily about 5 years ago :-P Actually, I used Kubuntu
and at the time it was KDE 3.5 yet it was extremely slow (and my hardware
was not fully to blame; there was no stable Compiz back then), and I was
skeptical to try another distro but someone recommended I try Gentoo. While
it took probably about 5 tries to get a fully working and optimised
installation, it was all worth it because KDE 3.5 was significantly faster
on Gentoo compared to Kubuntu (and I only had one computer sometimes when
doing reinstalls so I could NOT fail as I had to resume work ASAP).

I actually had to use a dd'd copy of the ISO to USB drive for the latest
Ubuntu to boot up the MacBook Air I got from work into a state from which I
could install Gentoo (another cool feature of Gentoo installation). Nothing
else, even if properly converted, would boot without freezing (that
includes Arch Linux on USB).

Still I run into issues I'm not sure about regarding the Air, like if it
stays on for more than 24 hours it seems to either freeze or the mouse is
moving extremely slowly. Linus according to one interview not too long ago
uses an Air as his laptop (because it is quiet), so I am actually quite
surprised at this issue.

On Wednesday, 4 July 2012, Samir Faci wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
>    I actually just moved to the general area myself.  Just south of
> San Francisco (San Mateo/Foster City depending on who you ask ).
>
> I used gentoo for about 5 year or so.... I moved over to a mix of Arch
> / Ubuntu now depending on what  I
> want to do with the machine.
>
> though +1 for gentoo if you have the patience for it.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Andrew Udvare <audvare at gmail.com<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Hello, I am new to the area (living in Berkely, working in SF). I have
> been
> > using Linux for years and have been using Gentoo since 2007. Any fellow
> Gentoo
> > users here?
> >
> > I was lucky enough that my new job let me install Gentoo natively on the
> > Macbook Air they gave me (what a hassle too, but it's worth it!).
> > --
> > Andrew Udvare
> > http://andrew.udvare.com/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <javascript:;>
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
> --
> Samir Faci
> *insert title*
> fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <javascript:;>
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From adborden at live.com  Fri Jul  6 09:13:08 2012
From: adborden at live.com (Aaron Borden)
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 09:13:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Hello
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGpKHVBqSY75N7BsxAYZN5OycX3bMRHHX4eO4=4rT9p2sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>
	<CAJ7OkQ9o-eoQsH4DZyeyTxaL0RgDVAoVaVfiFQSCzBTg+1fZKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfjkGpKHVBqSY75N7BsxAYZN5OycX3bMRHHX4eO4=4rT9p2sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP2614ADE62842A9B2AB9ABB1B6EE0@phx.gbl>

On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 21:45 -0700, Andrew Udvare wrote:
> I actually had to use a dd'd copy of the ISO to USB drive for the latest
> Ubuntu to boot up the MacBook Air I got from work into a state from which I
> could install Gentoo (another cool feature of Gentoo installation). Nothing
> else, even if properly converted, would boot without freezing (that
> includes Arch Linux on USB).
> 
> Still I run into issues I'm not sure about regarding the Air, like if it
> stays on for more than 24 hours it seems to either freeze or the mouse is
> moving extremely slowly. Linus according to one interview not too long ago
> uses an Air as his laptop (because it is quiet), so I am actually quite
> surprised at this issue.

+1 Gentoo. At work I have Ubuntu 12.04 running on a macbook pro. For
each hardware release Apple makes, it gets harder and harder to get a
stable Linux install running and in the near future with UEFI secure
boot, it won't be possible at all. They already have a custom
implementation of UEFI and it is not compatible with the nvidia card on
this HW rev, so no hardware acceleration if booting through UEFI.

I've got it running well now when booting with "legacy" grub,
suspend/resume works, wifi works (although with 11.10 I had to compile
the staging drivers manually), bluetooth, printing, etc. Ultimately I
don't recommend using mac hardware with Linux. Unfortunately even
ZaReason doesn't have a great selection of laptops. Their lightest model
is still 4.5 lbs!!! Something I've been meaning to write to them
about :/

-Aaron




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Jul  6 09:33:59 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 09:33:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Hello
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP2614ADE62842A9B2AB9ABB1B6EE0@phx.gbl>
References: <3291194.4vNiT5U7fQ@tatsh>
	<CAJ7OkQ9o-eoQsH4DZyeyTxaL0RgDVAoVaVfiFQSCzBTg+1fZKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfjkGpKHVBqSY75N7BsxAYZN5OycX3bMRHHX4eO4=4rT9p2sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP2614ADE62842A9B2AB9ABB1B6EE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4FF71377.6040405@dslextreme.com>

On 07/06/2012 09:13 AM, Aaron Borden wrote:
> On Wed, 2012-07-04 at 21:45 -0700, Andrew Udvare wrote:
>> I actually had to use a dd'd copy of the ISO to USB drive for the latest
>> Ubuntu to boot up the MacBook Air I got from work into a state from which I
>> could install Gentoo (another cool feature of Gentoo installation). Nothing
>> else, even if properly converted, would boot without freezing (that
>> includes Arch Linux on USB).
>>
>> Still I run into issues I'm not sure about regarding the Air, like if it
>> stays on for more than 24 hours it seems to either freeze or the mouse is
>> moving extremely slowly. Linus according to one interview not too long ago
>> uses an Air as his laptop (because it is quiet), so I am actually quite
>> surprised at this issue.
> +1 Gentoo. At work I have Ubuntu 12.04 running on a macbook pro. For
> each hardware release Apple makes, it gets harder and harder to get a
> stable Linux install running and in the near future with UEFI secure
> boot, it won't be possible at all. They already have a custom
> implementation of UEFI and it is not compatible with the nvidia card on
> this HW rev, so no hardware acceleration if booting through UEFI.
The UEFI issue will be resolved eventually and if you check the
older messages you will see that this is receiving some intense
scrutiny from the knowledgeable parties.
     Fedora 18 for example will include a key to allow it to
boot on a machine with Secure Boot enabled according to my information.

<http://www.geek.com/articles/news/redhat-will-pay-microsoft-to-ensure-fedora-18-runs-on-windows-8-pcs-2012061/>

     I found that by Googling Fedora 18 but plenty of other stories, 
some incorrect, are
out there regarding using Linux on x86 machines and disabling Secure Boot.
     So you might have to buy an Ultrabook with Windows 7/8 on it to get 
the lightweight
machine you seem to want(as do I) but Fedora should allow Linux to get a 
toe hold on
the hardwares.

>
> I've got it running well now when booting with "legacy" grub,
> suspend/resume works, wifi works (although with 11.10 I had to compile
> the staging drivers manually), bluetooth, printing, etc. Ultimately I
> don't recommend using mac hardware with Linux. Unfortunately even
> ZaReason doesn't have a great selection of laptops. Their lightest model
> is still 4.5 lbs!!! Something I've been meaning to write to them
> about :/
>
> -Aaron
>
     Bobbie Sellers



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 11:24:45 2012
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 11:24:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
Message-ID: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com>

i have an older laptop that has no cd drive and it will not boot from an 
external drive (thumbdrive or external cdrom).

how can i install linux on it?

i know that wubi will allow me to test linux but i want install 
completely over windows.

how can i do this?



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Jul  8 11:39:46 2012
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:39:46 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>

Excerpts from Michael Shiloh's message of Sun Jul 08 14:24:45 -0400 2012:
> i have an older laptop that has no cd drive and it will not boot from an 
> external drive (thumbdrive or external cdrom).
> 
> how can i install linux on it?
> 
> i know that wubi will allow me to test linux but i want install 
> completely over windows.

Reasonable way: netboot. Your laptop's Ethernet card might support it.

In the realm of crazy things, which I'd love to hear more about if
you try (should be totally harmless if they don't work):

* http://www.goodbye-windows.com/

(This "simply" adds debian-installer to NTLDR. Fairly reasonable.)

* WinKexec (written by a friend of mine): http://reboot.pro/7391/

(This jumps to a Linux kernel of your choice, from within Windows. An
amusing stunt, and honestly a reasonable option, but on the surface
totally insane.)

Okay, that's all I can think of for now. Good luck!

-- Asheesh.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Jul  8 11:46:51 2012
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 14:46:51 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com> <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>
Message-ID: <1341772857-sup-1823@rose.makesad.us>

Excerpts from Asheesh Laroia's message of Sun Jul 08 14:39:46 -0400 2012:
> Excerpts from Michael Shiloh's message of Sun Jul 08 14:24:45 -0400 2012:
> > i have an older laptop that has no cd drive and it will not boot from an 
> > external drive (thumbdrive or external cdrom).
> > 
> > how can i install linux on it?
> > 
> > i know that wubi will allow me to test linux but i want install 
> > completely over windows.
> 
> Reasonable way: netboot. Your laptop's Ethernet card might support it.
> 
> In the realm of crazy things, which I'd love to hear more about if
> you try (should be totally harmless if they don't work):
> 
> * http://www.goodbye-windows.com/

A slightly different tool:

http://goodbye-microsoft.com/

That's my current recommendation, actually. It's win32-loader.exe, and is
even part of the Debian mirrors. A fan of goodbye-microsoft.com makes this
remark, which I pass along without any review:

<OdyX> paulproteus: fwiw, goodbye-windows is severely outdated.

Also if you want to go non-crazy, there are these reasonable-ish-looking
options:

* http://ubuntuguide.net/how-to-install-windows-7-from-ubuntu-without-burnning-a-disc

* https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SmartBootManager (requires a floppy drive)

But really, http://goodbye-microsoft.com/ and win32-loader.exe looks great.

-- Asheesh.



From akkana at shallowsky.com  Sun Jul  8 12:00:53 2012
From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2012 12:00:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120708190053.GA1945@shallowsky.com>

Michael Shiloh writes:
> i have an older laptop that has no cd drive and it will not boot
> from an external drive (thumbdrive or external cdrom).
> 
> how can i install linux on it?

How hard is it to open up the laptop and pull the hard drive out?
The easy solution is to attach the hard drive to another Linux 
computer via a USB adaptor, and install Linux on the disk that way.

Be careful when installing grub or other bootloaders, though --
make sure it's using UUIDs for the disk, so it won't care whether
it shows up as the first or second disk on the system.  (Of course,
you'll also want to be careful that you don't overwrite the grub on
the machine you're using to do the install!)

I'd recommend making a separate small partition for /boot,
and installing the PLOP boot manager, http://www.plop.at/
It's a neat little setup you can install under grub or other Linux
boot loaders that will let you boot from a USB stick, even if the
machine is too old to do USB boot on its own. PLOP will come in handy
if you get anything wrong (e.g. fstab entries) while installing
Linux to that disk while it's mounted on another machine, or if
you ever want to install another distro or boot from a live distro.

> i know that wubi will allow me to test linux but i want install
> completely over windows.

You *might* be able to use wubi to install grub and then PLOP while
the disk is still in the original laptop, then use PLOP to boot from
a USB stick with a Linux installer. But I haven't used wubi so can't
say for sure if that would work.

Good luck!

	...Akkana



From audvare at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 12:10:25 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 12:10:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <20120708190053.GA1945@shallowsky.com>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com> <20120708190053.GA1945@shallowsky.com>
Message-ID: <3081992.qhhFjfiZjj@tatsh>

I had a laptop a long time ago like this and I put the hard drive on another 
machine, installed Linux with VirtualBox hooked directly to that hard drive 
(no VDI; it is an option that is seemingly hard to set up without being root). 
Once installed, you should just be able to put it in the laptop without any 
issue.
-- 
Andrew Udvare
http://andrew.udvare.com/



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sun Jul  8 19:44:31 2012
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 19:44:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <1341772857-sup-1823@rose.makesad.us>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com> <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>
	<1341772857-sup-1823@rose.makesad.us>
Message-ID: <4FFA458F.9060907@gmail.com>



>> * http://www.goodbye-windows.com/

> http://goodbye-microsoft.com/


I tried installing the first and when it gave errors, tried installing 
the second which also gave errors. On a whim I rebooted and was greeted 
with success, but I can't tell you which one it was.

Anyway, I proceeded to install Debian almost flawlessly but I think grub 
was installed on my thumb drive by accident. I had the thumb drive 
installed due to a missing network driver I had to bring over manually. 
I left the thumb drive in and when the install process reached grub I 
noticed lots of activity on my thumb drive - probably the procedure that 
figured out which disk to load on just went for the first disk, which 
for some reason was the thumb drive. (I noticed this during disk 
partitioning.)

So I have an almost perfect Debian installation which won't boot due to 
missing grub.

So now I have to revert to plan B  and take the drive out. While I'm at 
it I may as well install the PLOP boot manager, as Akkana recommended. I 
can see how that would be very handy.

Thanks everyone for your help.




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jul  9 00:36:36 2012
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 03:36:36 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <4FFA458F.9060907@gmail.com>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com> <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>
	<1341772857-sup-1823@rose.makesad.us> <4FFA458F.9060907@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1341819335-sup-9911@rose.makesad.us>

Excerpts from Michael Shiloh's message of Sun Jul 08 22:44:31 -0400 2012:
> 
> >> * http://www.goodbye-windows.com/
> 
> > http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
> 
> 
> I tried installing the first and when it gave errors, tried installing 
> the second which also gave errors. On a whim I rebooted and was greeted 
> with success, but I can't tell you which one it was.
> 
> Anyway, I proceeded to install Debian almost flawlessly but I think grub 
> was installed on my thumb drive by accident. I had the thumb drive 
> installed due to a missing network driver I had to bring over manually. 
> I left the thumb drive in and when the install process reached grub I 
> noticed lots of activity on my thumb drive - probably the procedure that 
> figured out which disk to load on just went for the first disk, which 
> for some reason was the thumb drive. (I noticed this during disk 
> partitioning.)
> 
> So I have an almost perfect Debian installation which won't boot due to 
> missing grub.
> 
> So now I have to revert to plan B  and take the drive out. While I'm at 
> it I may as well install the PLOP boot manager, as Akkana recommended. I 
> can see how that would be very handy.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your help.

Thanks for your detailed report! I sent it along to one of the maintainers of
the second one.

Sorry it didn't work out for you, and sad that the thumb drive thing became a
big issue.

-- Asheesh.



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Mon Jul  9 10:35:12 2012
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2012 10:35:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to install linux on laptop with no cd drive?
In-Reply-To: <1341819335-sup-9911@rose.makesad.us>
References: <4FF9D06D.5080206@gmail.com> <1341772165-sup-8223@rose.makesad.us>
	<1341772857-sup-1823@rose.makesad.us> <4FFA458F.9060907@gmail.com>
	<1341819335-sup-9911@rose.makesad.us>
Message-ID: <4FFB1650.2090302@gmail.com>



On 07/09/2012 12:36 AM, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> Excerpts from Michael Shiloh's message of Sun Jul 08 22:44:31 -0400 2012:
>>
>>>> * http://www.goodbye-windows.com/
>>
>>> http://goodbye-microsoft.com/
>>
>>
>> I tried installing the first and when it gave errors, tried installing
>> the second which also gave errors. On a whim I rebooted and was greeted
>> with success, but I can't tell you which one it was.
>>
>> Anyway, I proceeded to install Debian almost flawlessly but I think grub
>> was installed on my thumb drive by accident. I had the thumb drive
>> installed due to a missing network driver I had to bring over manually.
>> I left the thumb drive in and when the install process reached grub I
>> noticed lots of activity on my thumb drive - probably the procedure that
>> figured out which disk to load on just went for the first disk, which
>> for some reason was the thumb drive. (I noticed this during disk
>> partitioning.)
>>
>> So I have an almost perfect Debian installation which won't boot due to
>> missing grub.
>>
>> So now I have to revert to plan B  and take the drive out. While I'm at
>> it I may as well install the PLOP boot manager, as Akkana recommended. I
>> can see how that would be very handy.
>>
>> Thanks everyone for your help.
>
> Thanks for your detailed report! I sent it along to one of the maintainers of
> the second one.
>
> Sorry it didn't work out for you, and sad that the thumb drive thing became a
> big issue.

Well it's not like it's a BIG issue, but a great experiment and I 
learned a lot.

I'm pretty sure it was the standard text-based Debian installer that 
didn't ask me where to install grub, and nothing to do with your friend. 
Unless he is interested in verifying that.



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Jul 10 12:14:35 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2012 12:14:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets July 16th ...
Message-ID: <4FFC7F1B.2030304@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG meets every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 6 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Meeting of July 1
     Well the last meeting ended up as an attempt to diagnose
and fix my Presario.  The multiple installs and chain-loading were
all messed up.  Daniel and Ken Schaeffer helped me figure
out what had gone wrong and it was mostly that the fixed
disk had been partitioned beyond the capacity of the MBR to
keep track of what was going on.  Eric showed up as well
and was of some assistance.

     Since then I have gotten the 2010.2 re-installed and it
seems to be running fine.   I used Knoppix and thought
I had backed up everything using a copy command but a
lot of stuff like address books, mail and mail archives did
not come through.
     I had to use a separate booting CD disk tool to reformat the
whole disk and begin to repartition it.  (The partition editor on
the Knoppix DVD refused to even deal with such a mess.)

     I would be in a better position if I had just backed up
my Home partition before I started instead of relying
on copying to the backup disk to accomplish what I needed.
     One benefit of all the problems I have had is that i
am getting very good at dealing with installation of
the distribution i use.

     It will be a while until I try anything like this again though
since it was exhausting to deal with this stuff for over a week
of attempting various configurations.  The 2011 disk has
a bad driver for the Presario's nVidia card and I did not hear
of this matter until after attempting to get it to work with
the bad driver for about 3 days.  Sooner or later I will try
again to install it but the version of the Kernel 3.1.4 does
not seem happy with my setup.
     The Mandriva 2012 Tech Preview disk worked pretty well
but a few tools like the Mandriva Control Center seemed
to disappear.  2012 itself so far looks like it should be
a winner.
     2010.3 is a non-Mandriva update produced by MIB
and available thru repositories at the PlanetaLinux
site and I never managed to get a working installation.
I think it may have been a late-appearing April Fools
joke but maybe my hardware configuration is too
different from the people who assembled the bits
and pieces.

     Hope I see you all at the meeting next Monday.

     Bobbie




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 11 11:15:18 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1342030518.42113.YahooMailRC@web181401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 12 08:56:39 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:56:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Connectivity problem
Message-ID: <1342108599.66213.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>


Here's a configuration problem I don't understand.
The network is as follows:
Internet comes in as a fixed IP on the external interface of a Linksys
WRG54G(v6) router with settings all pretty much at defaults.
Its internal interface has IP 172.24.16.254 serving a Class C
172.24.16.0/24 network.
On that network is a DreamPlug with ethernet connected
at fixed IP 172.24.16.100.
This DreamPlug also has a WiFi interface which serves as a wifi Access Point
with fixed IP 10.0.11.1 serving another Class C 10.0.11.0/24 network.
When connected to that access point with my laptop as a client I get
(by DHCP) IP 10.0.11.100 (as I should.)
>From this laptop I get the correct response to the following commands:
$ dig @127.0.0.1 linuxmafia.com +short
$ dig @10.0.11.1 linuxmafia.com +short
but
$ dig @172.24.16.254 linuxmafia.com +short
fails.
$ ping yahoo.com
provides me with yahoo's IP address but the ping does not go through and
the lap top can not make use of the internet.
I can't understand how this could be.
Has anyone any suggestions as to what might be happening or how to trouble
shoot further?
(Thanks, by the way, to Rick Moen who taught us/me on this list some years
ago how to use the dig command.)

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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Jul 12 16:17:16 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:17:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Putting Android on tablets and netbooks
Message-ID: <4FFF5AFC.6090303@dslextreme.com>

     An online friend of mine sent this to another mailing list,

     This may or may not be of interest to some of you.

     He intends to try it on a netbook which he has not used since he got
a tablet.

http://blog.gadgethelpline.com/install-android-windows-laptop-netbook/


     Seem very complete instructions.

     Bobbie Sellers



From rick at rbsmith.com  Thu Jul 12 16:55:09 2012
From: rick at rbsmith.com (Rick Smith)
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 16:55:09 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Connectivity problem
In-Reply-To: <1342108599.66213.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1342108599.66213.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4FFF63DD.8060002@rbsmith.com>

In Linksys, you will need to add a static route for
10.0.11.0/24 to 172.24.16.100

In DreamPlug, you will need
     cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
to output non-zero, which means traffic can be routed from one network 
to another inside the DreamPlug.  If it is zero, then:
     sudo sh -c "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward"

Also check its route table
     /sbin/route -n
And see that the default route (0.0.0.0) is to 172.24.16.254
If it is not:

     route add default gateway 172.24.16.254

Then from the laptop, ping 10.0.11.1 and 172.24.16.254 and then yahoo.com
Does that get you closer?

Rick Smith

On 07/12/2012 08:56 AM, Alex Kleider wrote:
>
> Here's a configuration problem I don't understand.
> The network is as follows:
> Internet comes in as a fixed IP on the external interface of a Linksys
> WRG54G(v6) router with settings all pretty much at defaults.
> Its internal interface has IP 172.24.16.254 serving a Class C
> 172.24.16.0/24 network.
> On that network is a DreamPlug with ethernet connected
> at fixed IP 172.24.16.100.
> This DreamPlug also has a WiFi interface which serves as a wifi Access Point
> with fixed IP 10.0.11.1 serving another Class C 10.0.11.0/24 network.
> When connected to that access point with my laptop as a client I get
> (by DHCP) IP 10.0.11.100 (as I should.)
>  From this laptop I get the correct response to the following commands:
> $ dig @127.0.0.1 linuxmafia.com +short
> $ dig @10.0.11.1 linuxmafia.com +short
> but
> $ dig @172.24.16.254 linuxmafia.com +short
> fails.
> $ ping yahoo.com
> provides me with yahoo's IP address but the ping does not go through and
> the lap top can not make use of the internet.
> I can't understand how this could be.
> Has anyone any suggestions as to what might be happening or how to trouble
> shoot further?
> (Thanks, by the way, to Rick Moen who taught us/me on this list some years
> ago how to use the dig command.)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>





From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 13 07:41:27 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:41:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Connectivity problem
In-Reply-To: <4FFF63DD.8060002@rbsmith.com>
Message-ID: <1342190487.21549.YahooMailClassic@web122306.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Rick,

Thank you very much for your response.

I followed up on all your suggestions and everything appeared to be as it should be.

Out of desperation I simply "down" and "up"ed the interface:

ifdown etho

ifup eth0

and after that all worked as it should. 

It appears that for reasons I can't fathom, /etc/network/interfaces 
isn't properly read during boot time (even though it is read enough such that ifconfig gives results indicating that all is well.) Forcing a re-read by putting 
ifdown and ifup in /etc/rc.local makes things work properly.? 

I've heard people criticizing Debian's ARM packages and this may be an example of what they are talking about.? I've also had a problem with automounting of USB connected devices.
Thanks again.

alex

a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Thu, 7/12/12, Rick Smith <rick at rbsmith.com> wrote:

From: Rick Smith <rick at rbsmith.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Connectivity problem
To: alex at kleico.net
Cc: "Alex Kleider" <a_kleider at yahoo.com>, sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2012, 4:55 PM

In Linksys, you will need to add a static route for
10.0.11.0/24 to 172.24.16.100

In DreamPlug, you will need
? ???cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
to output non-zero, which means traffic can be routed from one network 
to another inside the DreamPlug.? If it is zero, then:
? ???sudo sh -c "echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward"

Also check its route table
? ???/sbin/route -n
And see that the default route (0.0.0.0) is to 172.24.16.254
If it is not:

? ???route add default gateway 172.24.16.254

Then from the laptop, ping 10.0.11.1 and 172.24.16.254 and then yahoo.com
Does that get you closer?

Rick Smith

On 07/12/2012 08:56 AM, Alex Kleider wrote:
>
> Here's a configuration problem I don't understand.
> The network is as follows:
> Internet comes in as a fixed IP on the external interface of a Linksys
> WRG54G(v6) router with settings all pretty much at defaults.
> Its internal interface has IP 172.24.16.254 serving a Class C
> 172.24.16.0/24 network.
> On that network is a DreamPlug with ethernet connected
> at fixed IP 172.24.16.100.
> This DreamPlug also has a WiFi interface which serves as a wifi Access Point
> with fixed IP 10.0.11.1 serving another Class C 10.0.11.0/24 network.
> When connected to that access point with my laptop as a client I get
> (by DHCP) IP 10.0.11.100 (as I should.)
>? From this laptop I get the correct response to the following commands:
> $ dig @127.0.0.1 linuxmafia.com +short
> $ dig @10.0.11.1 linuxmafia.com +short
> but
> $ dig @172.24.16.254 linuxmafia.com +short
> fails.
> $ ping yahoo.com
> provides me with yahoo's IP address but the ping does not go through and
> the lap top can not make use of the internet.
> I can't understand how this could be.
> Has anyone any suggestions as to what might be happening or how to trouble
> shoot further?
> (Thanks, by the way, to Rick Moen who taught us/me on this list some years
> ago how to use the dig command.)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>


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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Fri Jul 13 07:54:32 2012
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2012 07:54:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: Tu 2012-07-17: screen(1), presented by Michael
	Paoli; &	other BALUG news
Message-ID: <20120713075432.471856op77gh2eg4@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2012-07-17: screen(1), presented by Michael Paoli; & other  
BALUG news

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2012-07-17 at BALUG: presented by Michael Paoli
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org
CDs, and other "door prizes", etc.
volunteering to help BALUG

------------------------------

For our 2012-07-17 meeting BALUG is proud to present:

screen(1), presented by Michael Paoli

screen(1) is a highly useful and quite versitile utility, considered
"essential" by many or most Linux systems administrators, and also
often heavily utilized by many other Linux users.  Most notably,
screen(1) is a terminal session manager, allowing one to create,
manage, detatch from, and reattach to terminal sessions.  But screen(1)
has a very rich feature set, allowing one to do numerous related useful
things, e.g. copy/paste from independent scrollback buffers, title and
retitle screen(1) sessions and terminal window sessions within
screen(1), monitor window sessions for (in)activity and report on
window activity, can be set to work with multiple users for read-only
or read-write sharing of terminal sessions, and is highly configurable,
to name but a few of its numerous features and capabilities.

Michael Paoli has been using screen(1) for about a dozen or more years.
He's been doing Linux systems administration for over 14 years, and
has professionally been working in Linux/Unix systems administration in
excess of two decades, and has worked with Unix since long before than
all that.


So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                        6:30pm
                        Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 2012-07-17

                        Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                        731 Grant Ave.
                        San Francisco, CA 94108
                        Easy PARKING:
                          Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
                          http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
       cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
       family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
       also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

CDs, and other "door prizes", etc.

Goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following):

CDs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have
"door prizes".

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG

Want to volunteer to help out BALUG?  (quite a variety of opportunities)
Drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting.

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Jul 17 07:51:41 2012
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:51:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] reminder TODAY!: BALUG: screen(1), presented by Michael
	Paoli; &	other BALUG news
Message-ID: <20120717075141.14815c70l74g29cs@webmail.rawbw.com>

reminder TODAY!: BALUG: screen(1), presented by Michael Paoli; & other  
BALUG news

------------------------------

items, details further below:
2012-07-17 at BALUG: presented by Michael Paoli
Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org
CDs, and other "door prizes", etc.
volunteering to help BALUG

------------------------------

For our 2012-07-17 meeting BALUG is proud to present:

screen(1), presented by Michael Paoli

screen(1) is a highly useful and quite versitile utility, considered
"essential" by many or most Linux systems administrators, and also
often heavily utilized by many other Linux users.  Most notably,
screen(1) is a terminal session manager, allowing one to create,
manage, detatch from, and reattach to terminal sessions.  But screen(1)
has a very rich feature set, allowing one to do numerous related useful
things, e.g. copy/paste from independent scrollback buffers, title and
retitle screen(1) sessions and terminal window sessions within
screen(1), monitor window sessions for (in)activity and report on
window activity, can be set to work with multiple users for read-only
or read-write sharing of terminal sessions, and is highly configurable,
to name but a few of its numerous features and capabilities.

Michael Paoli has been using screen(1) for about a dozen or more years.
He's been doing Linux systems administration for over 14 years, and
has professionally been working in Linux/Unix systems administration in
excess of two decades, and has worked with Unix since long before than
all that.


So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                        6:30pm
                        Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 2012-07-17

                        Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                        731 Grant Ave.
                        San Francisco, CA 94108
                        Easy PARKING:
                          Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
                          http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
       cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
       family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
       also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue).

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

CDs, and other "door prizes", etc.

Goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following):

CDs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have
"door prizes".

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG

Want to volunteer to help out BALUG?  (quite a variety of opportunities)
Drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting.

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Jul 17 12:14:50 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 12:14:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting of July 16
Message-ID: <5005B9AA.9070903@dslextreme.com>

Hello SF-LUG members,

     Usually I would wait until the next meeting notice but that will
be another 2 weeks and I might forget details by then.
     I arrived just before Mikki McGee and setup my Presario
as Maestro from the Noisebridge meeting dropped in with a big
problem.
     Jim was in a bit later then Eric came in.
     Mikki has  a problem in the the distribution installed on her
EEEPC netbook has had no upgrades for some time.  Eventually
she decided to try Kubuntu 12.04 and I made a copy of it from
the DOM for Linux Pro Magazine issue 140(on the stands now).
I made the copy because Mikki has had some problems producing
bootable disks.  My copy booted right up and I was able to offer
a bit of advice regarding the setup of docks and panels.

      I was not able to offer much help to Maestro but Jim and
Eric were more helpful.   Something affected his desktop icons
and they all disappeared into some "crack" in the file-system.
At first he had really distressing problems with booting but
by the time he got to the meeting the system had recovered
a bit.  He still has to find his missing files.

     Well after an evening of interesting discussion we left
at 8 PM and Jim gave myself, Mikki and Eric rides to their
next destinations.

     New people were running the Cafe Enchante it seemed to
me but otherwise nothing there had changed much.

     Thanks, Jim, for the ride and  thanks to the other members for
showing up.

     Oh and by the way if anyone is interested in a Mid-Western
multi-computer users group I have the latest CUCUG newsletter
the July "Status Register" and will be happy to send anyone a
copy off the list.  It is 125 KiB this month so i doubt it is suitable
for posting to the mailing list

     Bobbie Sellers



From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 17 16:47:57 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2012 16:47:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1342568877.42280.YahooMailRC@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From musicamaria at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 18 20:12:07 2012
From: musicamaria at yahoo.com (crispi maria)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 20:12:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1342667527.5068.YahooMailClassic@web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Sf-lug:

My name is Magdalena. I am interested in taking the ubuntu certification exam lpi 199 exam in the san francisco bay area. If anyone knows where I can take it let me know.

Sincerely,
maria crispi
musicamaria at yahoo.com


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From jim at systemateka.com  Wed Jul 18 21:19:13 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 21:19:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1342667527.5068.YahooMailClassic@web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1342667527.5068.YahooMailClassic@web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1342671553.1719.42.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



Hiya Magdalena, 

    On some Wednesday nights there is the Ubuntu Hour at The 
Roastery in San Francisco.

Location: The Roastery, 199 New Montgomery Street, San Francisco
Date: Wednesday, July 11th
Time: 6-7PM 

Details & RSVP: 
http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1829/detail/

Consider joining the Ubuntu-california mailing list 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca 

    But stay joined to sf-lug and let us know what you find out! 

    I suppose it would be okay, but I'll ask anyway: can I 
forward your email address to one or two people who are likely 
to know more about the Unbuntu hour and possibly where, when, 
and how to get Ubuntu certification? 



On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 20:12 -0700, crispi maria wrote:
> Dear Sf-lug:
> 
> My name is Magdalena. I am interested in taking the ubuntu
> certification exam lpi 199 exam in the san francisco bay area. If
> anyone knows where I can take it let me know.
> 
> Sincerely,
> maria crispi
> musicamaria at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Jul 19 16:33:16 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:33:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu goes for SecureBoot...
Message-ID: <5008993C.5080808@dslextreme.com>

     Surprised I haven't seen a note about it here yet but the story is at:

<http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/canonical-clarify-ubuntu-secureboot-plans>

         Ubuntu CDs will make use of a loader image signed by 
Microsoft's /'WinQual/' key. This will allow Ubuntu to boot on /'more or 
less every off-the-shelf [Windows 8] system'.

         More discussion in the story at the site listed above.  Lots of 
comments
demonstrating that many views of the matter are still held.

     Bobbie Sellers
/
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From samir at esamir.com  Fri Jul 20 11:27:17 2012
From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 11:27:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <1342671553.1719.42.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1342667527.5068.YahooMailClassic@web130202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1342671553.1719.42.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAJ7OkQ_ofGYbAnLwdODTFmoCB8XVppUvJ1okwR8N0zJoTHhzbg@mail.gmail.com>

To answer the where question.. based on my google fu skills I've
stumbled upon this:

https://www.lpi.org/linux-certifications/taking-exams

It seems you can take the test from both  Pearson VUE centers and they
have links that will
let you locate the closest testing center.  Though I would spend a
good bit of time
reviewing for the exam before taking it.

--
Samir



On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 9:19 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hiya Magdalena,
>
>     On some Wednesday nights there is the Ubuntu Hour at The
> Roastery in San Francisco.
>
> Location: The Roastery, 199 New Montgomery Street, San Francisco
> Date: Wednesday, July 11th
> Time: 6-7PM
>
> Details & RSVP:
> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1829/detail/
>
> Consider joining the Ubuntu-california mailing list
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca
>
>     But stay joined to sf-lug and let us know what you find out!
>
>     I suppose it would be okay, but I'll ask anyway: can I
> forward your email address to one or two people who are likely
> to know more about the Unbuntu hour and possibly where, when,
> and how to get Ubuntu certification?
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2012-07-18 at 20:12 -0700, crispi maria wrote:
>> Dear Sf-lug:
>>
>> My name is Magdalena. I am interested in taking the ubuntu
>> certification exam lpi 199 exam in the san francisco bay area. If
>> anyone knows where I can take it let me know.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> maria crispi
>> musicamaria at yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



-- 
Samir Faci
*insert title*
fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow

Sent from my non-iphone laptop.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 20:03:25 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:03:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Launching apps under Ubuntu Unity.
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4pwEofmhkuPW9GR5EZqJEkRGzVA3bR9jpzVx=zyDw9iEA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4pwEofmhkuPW9GR5EZqJEkRGzVA3bR9jpzVx=zyDw9iEA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Any tips about launching apps under Unity on Ubuntu 12.04?  Under GNOME,
there was a handy drop-down category under "Applications" in the upper left
corner.  With Unity under Ubuntu, there is the Ubuntu icon in the upper
left corner that leads the dash, which is great if you have already
launched something, but not so great for newbies the first time they want
to launch something.  I know the user can type in a searchbox in the dash,
but that is what you have to do in Microsoft Windows, and it is clumsy in
Unity and Windows both.  Thx.
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From bibayoff at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 20:24:35 2012
From: bibayoff at gmail.com (Steve M Bibayoff)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 20:24:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Launching apps under Ubuntu Unity.
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4pwEofmhkuPW9GR5EZqJEkRGzVA3bR9jpzVx=zyDw9iEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAELH=zLbHkefg-mbysqspHwXZrQNfsb0_sgZJUuCV=b5yGF3rw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Any tips about launching apps under Unity on Ubuntu 12.04?

ClassicMenu Indicator
http://www.florian-diesch.de/software/classicmenu-indicator/


hth

Steve



From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 22:39:04 2012
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:39:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Launching apps under Ubuntu Unity.
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4pwEofmhkuPW9GR5EZqJEkRGzVA3bR9jpzVx=zyDw9iEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAMNwFGDsH8BGb7w3p36A9jPO6iwh+eqGZHayYLfsELjisnurw@mail.gmail.com>

After clicking on the dash icon, try clicking on the dash window icon which
looks like a little ruler, pencil, and pen, then you should see
"installed..." click to see 95 more....  you can filter the ...more with
the filter selection, e.g. "system"
Ken
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From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Fri Jul 20 22:59:13 2012
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2012 22:59:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Launching apps under Ubuntu Unity.
In-Reply-To: <CAAMNwFGDsH8BGb7w3p36A9jPO6iwh+eqGZHayYLfsELjisnurw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4pwEofmhkuPW9GR5EZqJEkRGzVA3bR9jpzVx=zyDw9iEA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4rnCrVji1bGQYLS3iwvcTOEjaGT18jcB59_=E4q3Gavtw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAMNwFGDsH8BGb7w3p36A9jPO6iwh+eqGZHayYLfsELjisnurw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9tYzkCXGk3xA8ZC3TQSP2vg=qwG1SiU9NunS-3NYMi962xRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, Unity!

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Ken Shaffer <kenshaffer80 at gmail.com> wrote:
> After clicking on the dash icon, try clicking on the dash window icon which
> looks like a little ruler, pencil, and pen, then you should see
> "installed..." click to see 95 more....  you can filter the ...more with the
> filter selection, e.g. "system"
> Ken
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sat Jul 21 08:56:02 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:56:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Mandriva's problems(as a business)
Message-ID: <500AD112.3030202@dslextreme.com>


     What is going on with Mandriva?
     It is complicated, even after this 3 page article I am not sure...

<http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Healthcheck-Mandriva-Rebooting-the-company-1647958.html>


     Bobbie Sellers



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Sat Jul 21 10:18:11 2012
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:18:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Mandriva's problems(as a business)
In-Reply-To: <500AD112.3030202@dslextreme.com>
References: <500AD112.3030202@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAA9tYz=C01iCa72Eyh5zwbH0Kkbu31sPVLZ0rzhTvnq6eTVJOw@mail.gmail.com>

I only skimmed the article to see how they treated Mageia, so I can't
say tl:dr, but it was close. As I see it, Mandrake/Mandriva forked to
Mageia, and Mageia truly carries on the legacy for Mandrake/Mandriva.
The corporate structure known as "Mandriva" that's still foundering --
OK, let me give them the benefit of the doubt: restructuring -- really
has little, if anything, to do with the forked distro, other than
begging the forked distro to "come home." To be honest, I hope the
Mageia folks continue on their course with their own distro and
"Mandriva" can start from scratch, as far as I'm concerned.

It's sort of like LibreOffice being the rightful heir to OpenOffice,
even though OpenOffice still exists, sort of.

Larry Cafiero

On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>     What is going on with Mandriva?
>     It is complicated, even after this 3 page article I am not sure...
>
> <http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Healthcheck-Mandriva-Rebooting-the-company-1647958.html>
>
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From sundquistjames at gmail.com  Mon Jul 23 12:58:40 2012
From: sundquistjames at gmail.com (James Sundquist)
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:58:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI booting Grub2
Message-ID: <CAP6MHLqGF2PYFA-SjLsuy_GyJNd8uEr4vC-Q9yB0y5dPvT0BZg@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone have a successsful experience with setting up a multiple boot system
to chainload Linux and Windows 7 through Grub2 on UEFI?  Seems it is the
new standard on laptops.  I've seen very little information on how to
actually do this.
-James
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From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Wed Jul 25 11:07:07 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 11:07:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1343239627.40326.YahooMailRC@web181405.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Jul 26 17:22:55 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2012 17:22:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
Message-ID: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Partimus.org will be setting up a computer network in the math class of the
KIPP San Francisco Bay Academy this Saturday, July 28, from 1 pm to 4 pm.
Pizza will be served for all volunteers.  We will possibly be going up and
down some stairs, although I am planning on using the elevator for most of
the work.  The math teacher will use these computers for on-line math
programs, and she really loves these computers.  Any help is appreciated.
Please bring copies of Ubuntu 12.04.1 on USB and CD.  Please also bring
tools that you would typically need to triage and fix desktop machines.

If you would like to help, please come to the corner of O'Farrell and
Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite
large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that there might
be other people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I
will get to each of you as soon as I can.

Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.

Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 10:03:49 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 10:03:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> computer work at a public school this Saturday
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

When are you going to cease attempting to deceive the public about 
Partimus.org's otherwise commendable initiative to help a private school,
Christian?

I think you owe everyone an apology.




From audvare at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 11:35:16 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:35:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug]  computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think not. I think public schools are a terrible disease on society today
in general and the reason why proprietary software continues to get used
(the typical 'Computing' class has lessons in using Microsoft Word and
Excel, not free software). If I had the option, I would never pay taxes
that went to what ought to be called day-care, not school.

Although I disagree with using Ubuntu for my own reasons (it's become less
Linux-like everyday in comparison to Gentoo, Fedora, etc), at least it's a
start. Private schools are obviously making better choices all around.
Everyone knows those who go to private schools generally have better
opportunities later in life. That's why they are fought over (regarding
financial aid) by the less fortunate trying to educate their children.

On Friday, 27 July 2012, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>
> > computer work at a public school this Saturday
>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
This might be a slip up. I certainly hope it is.

Andrew
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 11:53:51 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 11:53:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools (was:
 computer work at a public school this Saturday)
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4oBXk1a1mhbHbbSH_nGaVxpkj23wnkc+qKwpSARRiVZsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oBXk1a1mhbHbbSH_nGaVxpkj23wnkc+qKwpSARRiVZsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727185351.GM15366@linuxmafia.com>


Redirecting back to the mailing list.

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
> >
> > > computer work at a public school this Saturday
> >                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > When are you going to cease attempting to deceive the public about
> > Partimus.org's otherwise commendable initiative to help a private school,
> > Christian?
> >
> 
> Thank you for saying Partimus is commendable.
> 
> Rick, I am very grateful for all you do for FOSS, for Bay Area LUGS, and
> for me, but we are going to have to just agree to disagree on this issue.

I'm sorry, it's simply not a matter open to debate.

Knowledge Is Power Program's schools are _private schools_.  That's a
fact.  After you kept denying it, I finally pointed you, some months
ago, to the incorporation records at the Secretary of State's office
and to management's incorporation papers.

Which means it's not a public school.  Just like every other
charter school.  Period.  Done.

You claimed it's a public school.  Wrong.
You claimed it's supervised by San Francisco Unified School District.  Wrong.

It's a _charter_ school.  Charter schools[0] are private schools that
are in COMPETITION WITH the public school system and TAKE TAXPAYER MONEY
that otherwise would have gone to the public schools.  Some people think
this fact is good; other people think it's bad.[1]  That's not the
point, though.  The point is:  It's a fact.  Tell the truth, Christian!

It is past time for you to apologise and stop attempting to deceive the
local Linux community.  I'm sure it was originally a simple error on
your part, but you no longer have that excuse.

You're in a hole.  Stop digging.


[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school

[1] Including me, FWIW.  I was lucky enough to attend a private high
school and a private college, but I paid full tuiton for those.  It was
not paid for by tax money withheld from the public school system, as 
is the case with charter schools.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 12:00:31 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:00:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727190031.GN15366@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Andrew Udvare (audvare at gmail.com):

> This might be a slip up. I certainly hope it is.

It's not.  Check the archives:  You'll see that he keeps re-posting the
claim despite being shown conclusive proof that, like all charter
schools, this is a private school run by a corporation.




From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 12:36:57 2012
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:36:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>

I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or not
the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not actually a
public school.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Andrew Udvare <audvare at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think not. I think public schools are a terrible disease on society
> today in general and the reason why proprietary software continues to get
> used (the typical 'Computing' class has lessons in using Microsoft Word and
> Excel, not free software). If I had the option, I would never pay taxes
> that went to what ought to be called day-care, not school.
>
> Although I disagree with using Ubuntu for my own reasons (it's become less
> Linux-like everyday in comparison to Gentoo, Fedora, etc), at least it's a
> start. Private schools are obviously making better choices all around.
> Everyone knows those who go to private schools generally have better
> opportunities later in life. That's why they are fought over (regarding
> financial aid) by the less fortunate trying to educate their children.
>
> On Friday, 27 July 2012, Rick Moen wrote:
>
>> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>>
>> > computer work at a public school this Saturday
>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
> This might be a slip up. I certainly hope it is.
>
> Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>



-- 
There Are More Than Two Ways To Do It
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From audvare at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 12:50:50 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 12:50:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGqM_vXjorUeXoBihxPm64M8TgzDgcsKf4As7mDton_eNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Fine. I did.

On Friday, 27 July 2012, Jeff Bragg wrote:

> I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
> public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or not
> the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
> if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not actually a
> public school.
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 11:35 AM, Andrew Udvare <audvare at gmail.com<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'audvare at gmail.com');>
> > wrote:
>
>> I think not. I think public schools are a terrible disease on society
>> today in general and the reason why proprietary software continues to get
>> used (the typical 'Computing' class has lessons in using Microsoft Word and
>> Excel, not free software). If I had the option, I would never pay taxes
>> that went to what ought to be called day-care, not school.
>>
>> Although I disagree with using Ubuntu for my own reasons (it's become
>> less Linux-like everyday in comparison to Gentoo, Fedora, etc), at least
>> it's a start. Private schools are obviously making better choices all
>> around. Everyone knows those who go to private schools generally have
>> better opportunities later in life. That's why they are fought over
>> (regarding financial aid) by the less fortunate trying to educate their
>> children.
>>
>> On Friday, 27 July 2012, Rick Moen wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>>>
>>> > computer work at a public school this Saturday
>>>                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>> This might be a slip up. I certainly hope it is.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
>> 'sf-lug at linuxmafia.com');>
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> There Are More Than Two Ways To Do It
>
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 13:04:54 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:04:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com):

> I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
> public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or not
> the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
> if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not actually a
> public school.

Thank you, yes.

I was trying to carefully avoid political disputation, simply noting in
passing that views differ over whether diverting public tax money to
fund certain private schools (charter schools) is good or bad.
Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of fact
on the subject is simply not OK.  He needs to stop -- finally.  (He's
been repeating that untruth very widely and over a period of some years,
now.)  Also, some expression of regret would be appreciated and in
order.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 13:29:54 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:29:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com):
>
> > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
> > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or
> not
> > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
> > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not
> actually a
> > public school.
>


> Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of fact
>

Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have
misrepresented a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in
California can attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who
is paying for that child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other
public schools.  Rick is not disputing that any child can attend KIPP for
free.

Rick, are you saying that KIPP is a private school?  If KIPP and Creative
Arts Charter School (CACS) are private schools, how can they stay in
business if they don't charge tuition?

That is why I say there is a mere difference of opinion here.  An opinion
is a conclusion drawn from facts.  The fact is that KIPP is funded by
taxes; the fact is that the kids attend for free; but the KIPP
administrators and cannot be fired by the SFUSD.  Instead, SFUSD must prove
that there are grounds to revoke the KIPP charter.  Grounds normally
include poor performance.  Based on these facts, Rick *opines* that KIPP is
private.  I am *opining* that KIPP is public.  There are no
misrepresentation of facts here; but a difference of how we are
interpreting agreed upon facts.

In either case, we will be installing Linux computers there this Saturday,
at O'Farrell and Pierce, from 1 pm to 4 pm.  Call me at 415-351-1300 so
that I can let you into the school when you arrive.
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From sean.channel at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 27 13:55:17 2012
From: sean.channel at pacbell.net (Sean)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:55:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>

Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they are
different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid for by
taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public enough
to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative' and
debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when together not
sacrosanct.

Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.  There
is no subterfuge intended here.

FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.


On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com
> <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>):
> 
>     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
>     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or not
>     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
>     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not actually a
>     > public school.
> 
>  
> 
>     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of fact
> 
> 
> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have misrepresented
> a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California can
> attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying for that
> child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.  Rick is
> not disputing that any child can attend KIPP for free. 
> 
> Rick, are you saying that KIPP is a private school?  If KIPP and Creative Arts
> Charter School (CACS) are private schools, how can they stay in business if they
> don't charge tuition? 
> 
> That is why I say there is a mere difference of opinion here.  An opinion is a
> conclusion drawn from facts.  The fact is that KIPP is funded by taxes; the fact
> is that the kids attend for free; but the KIPP administrators and cannot be
> fired by the SFUSD.  Instead, SFUSD must prove that there are grounds to revoke
> the KIPP charter.  Grounds normally include poor performance.  Based on these
> facts, Rick _opines_ that KIPP is private.  I am _opining_ that KIPP is public. 
> There are no misrepresentation of facts here; but a difference of how we are
> interpreting agreed upon facts.
> 
> In either case, we will be installing Linux computers there this Saturday, at
> O'Farrell and Pierce, from 1 pm to 4 pm.  Call me at 415-351-1300 so that I can
> let you into the school when you arrive. 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 14:06:59 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:06:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools (was:
 computer work at a public school this Saturday)
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727210659.GP15366@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.

No, we do not.


> Neither Rick nor I have misrepresented a fact.


No, sir.  

You have misrepresented a key fact, repeatedly and consistently, despite
the facts of the matter having been proved to you conclusively -
including in today's Subject header, which I just fixed AGAIN.  You
have done this to the detriment of the local Linux community, to whom
you owe (1) ceasing that bullshit, and (2) an apology.

> Rick, are you saying....

Cease the bullshit, Christian.  You've already been shown the corporate
registration and incorporation papers.  You've been shown that the
school is NOT (contrary to your repeated assertion) accountable to the
San Francisco Unified School District.  It's a private school BY
DEFINITION.  

The main thing that makes it different from other private schools (such
as Menlo School and Princeton University, which I attended) is that it
sucks public tax money away from the public schools.  

You are now claiming the fact that it sucks public tax money away from
the public schools (i.e., is a charter school) makes it a public school.
Sorry, doesn't work that way.

Doubling down on chutzpah when you have been caught misleading people is
not the way to get ahead.




From sean.channel at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 27 14:15:36 2012
From: sean.channel at pacbell.net (Sean)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:15:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools
In-Reply-To: <20120727210659.GP15366@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727210659.GP15366@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <501304F8.2010004@pacbell.net>

Rick, this is getting offensive.  Feel free to unsubscribe me if you feel the
need to retaliate further.


On 07/27/2012 02:06 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
> 
>> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.
> 
> No, we do not.
> 
> 
>> Neither Rick nor I have misrepresented a fact.
> 
> 
> No, sir.  
> 
> You have misrepresented a key fact, repeatedly and consistently, despite
> the facts of the matter having been proved to you conclusively -
> including in today's Subject header, which I just fixed AGAIN.  You
> have done this to the detriment of the local Linux community, to whom
> you owe (1) ceasing that bullshit, and (2) an apology.
> 
>> Rick, are you saying....
> 
> Cease the bullshit, Christian.  You've already been shown the corporate
> registration and incorporation papers.  You've been shown that the
> school is NOT (contrary to your repeated assertion) accountable to the
> San Francisco Unified School District.  It's a private school BY
> DEFINITION.  
> 
> The main thing that makes it different from other private schools (such
> as Menlo School and Princeton University, which I attended) is that it
> sucks public tax money away from the public schools.  
> 
> You are now claiming the fact that it sucks public tax money away from
> the public schools (i.e., is a charter school) makes it a public school.
> Sorry, doesn't work that way.
> 
> Doubling down on chutzpah when you have been caught misleading people is
> not the way to get ahead.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 



From audvare at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 14:35:58 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:35:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>

I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they
use public funding (and no, it would be better if it went to a 'real'
public school; government ALWAYS waste money; NEVER let the government
touch any money ever for any reason). I blame unions for most government
failures.

Charter school are usually open by first come first serve. Does that make
them public? And a number of spots are often raffled because teacher's
unions HATE charter schools because charter schools do a better job and the
teacher's unions cannot let this information out. They call this being
'fair' (as if a lottery can be fair). In case you do not already know:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Rhee#Chancellor_of_D.C._public_schools .
You can also watch 'Waiting for Superman' on YouTube.

Just my 2 cents.
Andrew

On Friday, 27 July 2012, Sean wrote:

> Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
> for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they
> are
> different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid for
> by
> taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public
> enough
> to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative'
> and
> debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when
> together not
> sacrosanct.
>
> Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.
>  There
> is no subterfuge intended here.
>
> FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.
>
>
> On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com<javascript:;>
> > <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com <javascript:;>>> wrote:
> >
> >     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com <javascript:;> <mailto:
> jackofnotrades at gmail.com <javascript:;>>):
> >
> >     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether
> or not
> >     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about
> whether or not
> >     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's
> point,
> >     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not
> actually a
> >     > public school.
> >
> >
> >
> >     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of
> fact
> >
> >
> > Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have
> misrepresented
> > a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California
> can
> > attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying
> for that
> > child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.
>  Rick is
> > not disputing that any child can attend KIPP for free.
> >
> > Rick, are you saying that KIPP is a private school?  If KIPP and
> Creative Arts
> > Charter School (CACS) are private schools, how can they stay in business
> if they
> > don't charge tuition?
> >
> > That is why I say there is a mere difference of opinion here.  An
> opinion is a
> > conclusion drawn from facts.  The fact is that KIPP is funded by taxes;
> the fact
> > is that the kids attend for free; but the KIPP administrators and cannot
> be
> > fired by the SFUSD.  Instead, SFUSD must prove that there are grounds to
> revoke
> > the KIPP charter.  Grounds normally include poor performance.  Based on
> these
> > facts, Rick _opines_ that KIPP is private.  I am _opining_ that KIPP is
> public.
> > There are no misrepresentation of facts here; but a difference of how we
> are
> > interpreting agreed upon facts.
> >
> > In either case, we will be installing Linux computers there this
> Saturday, at
> > O'Farrell and Pierce, from 1 pm to 4 pm.  Call me at 415-351-1300 so
> that I can
> > let you into the school when you arrive.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <javascript:;>
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <javascript:;>
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 14:38:23 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:38:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools
In-Reply-To: <501304F8.2010004@pacbell.net>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727210659.GP15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<501304F8.2010004@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20120727213823.GQ15366@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Sean (sean.channel at pacbell.net):

> Rick, this is getting offensive.

I absolutely agree.

It's possible we might disagree about _what_ is offensive, of course.
;->

> Feel free to unsubscribe me....

I believe this mailing list, like essentially all others, is
self-service.  You figured out how to subscribe, you can probably figure
out how to get off.  (You'll find clues at the bottom of every posting.)




From dssstrkl at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 14:49:28 2012
From: dssstrkl at gmail.com (Paul Ward)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:49:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>

In a past life working for government contractors, its been my experience that federal and state agencies are very particular about how they spend their money. There's a reason why both the contract and grant applications, as well as preliminary and final reports tend to be as thick as your arm. 

The companies I worked for, OTOH, tended to blow money like it was going out of style. Not saying my experience is the rule, but private industry has a lot of overhead that government lacks.  

-- 
Paul Ward

dssstrkl at gmail.com
@dssstrkl
dssstrkl.com


On Friday, July 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote:

> I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they use public funding (and no, it would be better if it went to a 'real' public school; government ALWAYS waste money; NEVER let the government touch any money ever for any reason). I blame unions for most government failures.
> 
> Charter school are usually open by first come first serve. Does that make them public? And a number of spots are often raffled because teacher's unions HATE charter schools because charter schools do a better job and the teacher's unions cannot let this information out. They call this being 'fair' (as if a lottery can be fair). In case you do not already know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Rhee#Chancellor_of_D.C._public_schools . You can also watch 'Waiting for Superman' on YouTube. 
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> Andrew
> 
> On Friday, 27 July 2012, Sean wrote:
> > Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
> > for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they are
> > different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid for by
> > taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public enough
> > to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative' and
> > debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when together not
> > sacrosanct.
> > 
> > Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.  There
> > is no subterfuge intended here.
> > 
> > FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.
> > 
> > 
> > On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com (javascript:;)
> > > <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com (javascript:;)>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com (javascript:;) <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com (javascript:;)>):
> > >
> > >     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether or not
> > >     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether or not
> > >     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's point,
> > >     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not actually a
> > >     > public school.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of fact
> > >
> > >
> > > Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have misrepresented
> > > a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California can
> > > attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying for that
> > > child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.  Rick is
> > > not disputing that any child can attend KIPP for free.
> > >
> > > Rick, are you saying that KIPP is a private school?  If KIPP and Creative Arts
> > > Charter School (CACS) are private schools, how can they stay in business if they
> > > don't charge tuition?
> > >
> > > That is why I say there is a mere difference of opinion here.  An opinion is a
> > > conclusion drawn from facts.  The fact is that KIPP is funded by taxes; the fact
> > > is that the kids attend for free; but the KIPP administrators and cannot be
> > > fired by the SFUSD.  Instead, SFUSD must prove that there are grounds to revoke
> > > the KIPP charter.  Grounds normally include poor performance.  Based on these
> > > facts, Rick _opines_ that KIPP is private.  I am _opining_ that KIPP is public.
> > > There are no misrepresentation of facts here; but a difference of how we are
> > > interpreting agreed upon facts.
> > >
> > > In either case, we will be installing Linux computers there this Saturday, at
> > > O'Farrell and Pierce, from 1 pm to 4 pm.  Call me at 415-351-1300 so that I can
> > > let you into the school when you arrive.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com (javascript:;)
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com (javascript:;)
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com (mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com)
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 


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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 14:55:08 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:55:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727215508.GJ2325@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Andrew Udvare (audvare at gmail.com):

> I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they
> use public funding....

So, if Exxon got part of your tax money, that would make it a publically
run corporation?  Being owned and operated by private interests _isn't_
the part that matters?  ;->

(Just checking:  What colour is the sky in your universe?)


> Charter school are usually open by first come first serve.

As are Exxon stations.  ;->

By the way, in addition to being owned and operated by private
corporations, charter schools have no legal obligation[1] to accept all
students -- unlike private schools.  Many are, in fact, infamous for 
cherry-picking which students they're willing to accept.  Actual public
schools lack that option for making themselves artificially look good.

[1] The more likeable charter schools nonetheless do agree to accept 
students on a first-come, first-served basis -- though I recall that your 
claim of this being 'usually' true is incorrect.  





From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 14:58:11 2012
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 14:58:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, my 2 cents.....

How about something like "working on computers at a school".  Unless
its a terrorist school, or has billions of dollars, seems like it's a
good cause.  (If they have billions of dollars, I'd expect to get
paid)

Thereby avoiding the whole issue.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ward <dssstrkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> In a past life working for government contractors, its been my experience
> that federal and state agencies are very particular about how they spend
> their money. There's a reason why both the contract and grant applications,
> as well as preliminary and final reports tend to be as thick as your arm.
>
> The companies I worked for, OTOH, tended to blow money like it was going out
> of style. Not saying my experience is the rule, but private industry has a
> lot of overhead that government lacks.
>
> --
> Paul Ward
>
> dssstrkl at gmail.com
> @dssstrkl
> dssstrkl.com
>
> On Friday, July 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote:
>
> I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they use
> public funding (and no, it would be better if it went to a 'real' public
> school; government ALWAYS waste money; NEVER let the government touch any
> money ever for any reason). I blame unions for most government failures.
>
> Charter school are usually open by first come first serve. Does that make
> them public? And a number of spots are often raffled because teacher's
> unions HATE charter schools because charter schools do a better job and the
> teacher's unions cannot let this information out. They call this being
> 'fair' (as if a lottery can be fair). In case you do not already know:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Rhee#Chancellor_of_D.C._public_schools
> . You can also watch 'Waiting for Superman' on YouTube.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> Andrew
>
> On Friday, 27 July 2012, Sean wrote:
>
> Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
> for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they
> are
> different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid for by
> taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public
> enough
> to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative'
> and
> debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when together
> not
> sacrosanct.
>
> Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.
> There
> is no subterfuge intended here.
>
> FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.
>
>
> On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com
>> <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com
>> <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>):
>>
>>     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether
>> or not
>>     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether
>> or not
>>     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's
>> point,
>>     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not
>> actually a
>>     > public school.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of
>> fact
>>
>>
>> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have
>> misrepresented
>> a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California
>> can
>> attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying for
>> that
>> child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.
>> Rick is
>> not disputing that any child can attend KIPP for free.
>>
>> Rick, are you saying that KIPP is a private school?  If KIPP and Creative
>> Arts
>> Charter School (CACS) are private schools, how can they stay in business
>> if they
>> don't charge tuition?
>>
>> That is why I say there is a mere difference of opinion here.  An opinion
>> is a
>> conclusion drawn from facts.  The fact is that KIPP is funded by taxes;
>> the fact
>> is that the kids attend for free; but the KIPP administrators and cannot
>> be
>> fired by the SFUSD.  Instead, SFUSD must prove that there are grounds to
>> revoke
>> the KIPP charter.  Grounds normally include poor performance.  Based on
>> these
>> facts, Rick _opines_ that KIPP is private.  I am _opining_ that KIPP is
>> public.
>> There are no misrepresentation of facts here; but a difference of how we
>> are
>> interpreting agreed upon facts.
>>
>> In either case, we will be installing Linux computers there this Saturday,
>> at
>> O'Farrell and Pierce, from 1 pm to 4 pm.  Call me at 415-351-1300 so that
>> I can
>> let you into the school when you arrive.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From audvare at gmail.com  Fri Jul 27 15:13:06 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:13:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
	<CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGp7a3h93b7ZJ7vQX-dn0T=pgHbe4PvzvKDSN8rw-31w1w@mail.gmail.com>

I agree it sounds like a good cause.

It's just that the subject is *possibly* incorrect in calling this a public
school.

On Friday, 27 July 2012, Dan Murphy wrote:

> Ok, my 2 cents.....
>
> How about something like "working on computers at a school".  Unless
> its a terrorist school, or has billions of dollars, seems like it's a
> good cause.  (If they have billions of dollars, I'd expect to get
> paid)
>
> Thereby avoiding the whole issue.
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ward <dssstrkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In a past life working for government contractors, its been my experience
> > that federal and state agencies are very particular about how they spend
> > their money. There's a reason why both the contract and grant
> applications,
> > as well as preliminary and final reports tend to be as thick as your arm.
> >
> > The companies I worked for, OTOH, tended to blow money like it was going
> out
> > of style. Not saying my experience is the rule, but private industry has
> a
> > lot of overhead that government lacks.
> >
> > --
> > Paul Ward
> >
> > dssstrkl at gmail.com
> > @dssstrkl
> > dssstrkl.com
> >
> > On Friday, July 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote:
> >
> > I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they
> use
> > public funding (and no, it would be better if it went to a 'real' public
> > school; government ALWAYS waste money; NEVER let the government touch any
> > money ever for any reason). I blame unions for most government failures.
> >
> > Charter school are usually open by first come first serve. Does that make
> > them public? And a number of spots are often raffled because teacher's
> > unions HATE charter schools because charter schools do a better job and
> the
> > teacher's unions cannot let this information out. They call this being
> > 'fair' (as if a lottery can be fair). In case you do not already know:
> >
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Rhee#Chancellor_of_D.C._public_schools
> > . You can also watch 'Waiting for Superman' on YouTube.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Friday, 27 July 2012, Sean wrote:
> >
> > Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
> > for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they
> > are
> > different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid
> for by
> > taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public
> > enough
> > to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative'
> > and
> > debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when
> together
> > not
> > sacrosanct.
> >
> > Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.
> > There
> > is no subterfuge intended here.
> >
> > FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.
> >
> >
> > On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com
> >> <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>):
> >>
> >>     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether
> >> or not
> >>     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about
> whether
> >> or not
> >>     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's
> >> point,
> >>     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not
> >> actually a
> >>     > public school.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of
> >> fact
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have
> >> misrepresented
> >> a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California
> >> can
> >> attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying
> for
> >> that
> >> child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.
> >> Rick is
> >> not disputing tha
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 15:13:25 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:13:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
	<CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120727221325.GK2325@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Dan Murphy (mmdmurphy at gmail.com):

> How about something like "working on computers at a school".

Perfectly excellent.

And also pretty much _exactly_ what I've repeatedly recommended to Christian,
while praising his effort in every single area other than the part where
he misleadingly claims that participants are helping the public schools.



From sean.channel at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 27 15:45:58 2012
From: sean.channel at pacbell.net (Sean)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:45:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGp7a3h93b7ZJ7vQX-dn0T=pgHbe4PvzvKDSN8rw-31w1w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727170349.GF2325@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
	<CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfjkGp7a3h93b7ZJ7vQX-dn0T=pgHbe4PvzvKDSN8rw-31w1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50131A26.8000703@pacbell.net>

I am interested in linux related discussions and events at various local
institutions, whatever their political situation.

I am not interested in politics or hair-splitting.

I don't care what Christian calls it.  I'm glad to know about it, but not if I
have to deal with a flame cascade.
_s


On 07/27/2012 03:13 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote:
> I agree it sounds like a good cause.
> 
> It's just that the subject is *possibly* incorrect in calling this a public school.
> 
> On Friday, 27 July 2012, Dan Murphy wrote:
> 
>     Ok, my 2 cents.....
> 
>     How about something like "working on computers at a school".  Unless
>     its a terrorist school, or has billions of dollars, seems like it's a
>     good cause.  (If they have billions of dollars, I'd expect to get
>     paid)
> 
>     Thereby avoiding the whole issue.
> 
>     On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ward <dssstrkl at gmail.com> wrote:
>     > In a past life working for government contractors, its been my experience
>     > that federal and state agencies are very particular about how they spend
>     > their money. There's a reason why both the contract and grant applications,
>     > as well as preliminary and final reports tend to be as thick as your arm.
>     >
>     > The companies I worked for, OTOH, tended to blow money like it was going out
>     > of style. Not saying my experience is the rule, but private industry has a
>     > lot of overhead that government lacks.
>     >
>     > --
>     > Paul Ward
>     >
>     > dssstrkl at gmail.com
>     > @dssstrkl
>     > dssstrkl.com <http://dssstrkl.com>
>     >
>     > On Friday, July 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote:
>     >
>     > I am somewhat in support of calling these public schools being that they use
>     > public funding (and no, it would be better if it went to a 'real' public
>     > school; government ALWAYS waste money; NEVER let the government touch any
>     > money ever for any reason). I blame unions for most government failures.
>     >
>     > Charter school are usually open by first come first serve. Does that make
>     > them public? And a number of spots are often raffled because teacher's
>     > unions HATE charter schools because charter schools do a better job and the
>     > teacher's unions cannot let this information out. They call this being
>     > 'fair' (as if a lottery can be fair). In case you do not already know:
>     > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Rhee#Chancellor_of_D.C._public_schools
>     > . You can also watch 'Waiting for Superman' on YouTube.
>     >
>     > Just my 2 cents.
>     > Andrew
>     >
>     > On Friday, 27 July 2012, Sean wrote:
>     >
>     > Good one. I agree with both of you, actually, but these do not seem to be
>     > for-pay private schools for those who can afford it.  Understandably they
>     > are
>     > different from the usual municipal school district, but if still paid for by
>     > taxes and free of tuition and (_presumably_) open to all; that's public
>     > enough
>     > to not be called private.  We could split hairs and call it 'alternative'
>     > and
>     > debate who owns the land, but the words "public" and "school" when together
>     > not
>     > sacrosanct.
>     >
>     > Anyone can follow Christian's references and read-up on the back story.
>     > There
>     > is no subterfuge intended here.
>     >
>     > FWIW I do hope to join this particular activity on some future occasion.
>     >
>     >
>     > On 07/27/2012 01:29 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
>     >> Hi,
>     >>
>     >> On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com
>     >> <mailto:rick at linuxmafia.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >>     Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com
>     >> <mailto:jackofnotrades at gmail.com>):
>     >>
>     >>     > I believe you are missing Rick's point, which is not about whether
>     >> or not
>     >>     > public or private schools are a good thing, but rather about whether
>     >> or not
>     >>     > the school Christian refers to is in fact a public school.  Rick's
>     >> point,
>     >>     > if I understand correctly, is that the school in question is not
>     >> actually a
>     >>     > public school.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>     Regardless of one's view, Christian's repeated misrepresentation of
>     >> fact
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Rick and I have a difference of opinion.  Neither Rick nor I have
>     >> misrepresented
>     >> a fact.  All the facts that I stated are true.  Any child in California
>     >> can
>     >> attend any KIPP school for free.  If KIPP is not public, who is paying for
>     >> that
>     >> child's tuition?  Answer:  taxes, just like all other public schools.
>     >> Rick is
>     >> not disputing tha
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jul 27 16:18:50 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:18:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools (was:
 computer work at a public school this Saturday)
In-Reply-To: <50131A26.8000703@pacbell.net>
References: <CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
	<CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfjkGp7a3h93b7ZJ7vQX-dn0T=pgHbe4PvzvKDSN8rw-31w1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50131A26.8000703@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20120727231850.GM2325@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Sean (sean.channel at pacbell.net):

> I don't care what Christian calls it.

Your lack of concern about whether the local Linux community has been
wilfully mislead into volunteering to help a private school (under the
supposition of helping a public one), over the last several years, is noted. 

Me, I just don't like being fed a line, like that.

-- 
Rick Moen         There was an old man             Said with a laugh, "I 
rick at linuxmafia   From Peru, whose lim'ricks all   Cut them in half, the pay is 
           .com   Looked like haiku.  He           Much better for two." 
McQ!  (4x80)                                            --Emmet O'Brien 



From sean.channel at pacbell.net  Fri Jul 27 16:24:14 2012
From: sean.channel at pacbell.net (Sean)
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:24:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Remedial civics: Charter schools are private schools
In-Reply-To: <20120727231850.GM2325@linuxmafia.com>
References: <CAJfjkGp3WiM96tBg4O8WXOisXhA+VTkoTjmyPg0unPmCGeUixQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJ4sp-VFdeLe0Vdg17g=iM3iC6mHmn_LBPxX+pGYVOpQaLj-hA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20120727200454.GO15366@linuxmafia.com>
	<CAJdae4oYvAF+pcLRLNArQ5TsOAGb=VuY1_JZt3WOiTD-XhaBKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<50130035.1060208@pacbell.net>
	<CAJfjkGopu=VmiNiF31vhGoH+-xj5pqYxE6EAc54s50meWJZtPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<0CE27061F2A343DDBA3ACBF26986D9D6@gmail.com>
	<CAMK8Piosu88U795iNq1UByWkx3MLi=qpwvrzFy2VS9dhcHeNzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJfjkGp7a3h93b7ZJ7vQX-dn0T=pgHbe4PvzvKDSN8rw-31w1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<50131A26.8000703@pacbell.net>
	<20120727231850.GM2325@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5013231E.2080802@pacbell.net>

I don't like being fed this signal-to-noise ratio, and watching you abuse and
nit-pick everyone's posts.  This is clearly Rick's Rants and not something I
need to belong to anymore.

My first post on the thread was intended to agree with both parties while
acknowledging the poster out of interest in participating and encouraging the
community.  I am abundantly regretful of this attempt.

Goodbye.
_S.



On 07/27/2012 04:18 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Sean (sean.channel at pacbell.net):
> 
>> I don't care what Christian calls it.
> 
> Your lack of concern about whether the local Linux community has been
> wilfully mislead into volunteering to help a private school (under the
> supposition of helping a public one), over the last several years, is noted. 
> 
> Me, I just don't like being fed a line, like that.
> 



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Jul 28 12:54:08 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 12:54:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4pUk4RRvf9mD22Y0fN0PktgH6m4zEVHvvoK_51J_gGLRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am @ the school @ Pierce and O'Farrell now.  Please call me @
415.351.1300 to get into the school.  I suggest parking your car inside the
gate, if you have one.
On Jul 26, 2012 5:22 PM, "Christian Einfeldt" <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Partimus.org will be setting up a computer network in the math class of
> the KIPP San Francisco Bay Academy this Saturday, July 28, from 1 pm to 4
> pm.  Pizza will be served for all volunteers.  We will possibly be going up
> and down some stairs, although I am planning on using the elevator for most
> of the work.  The math teacher will use these computers for on-line math
> programs, and she really loves these computers.  Any help is appreciated.
> Please bring copies of Ubuntu 12.04.1 on USB and CD.  Please also bring
> tools that you would typically need to triage and fix desktop machines.
>
> If you would like to help, please come to the corner of O'Farrell and
> Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite
> large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that there might
> be other people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I
> will get to each of you as soon as I can.
>
> Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.
>
> Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
>
>
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Jul 28 17:17:28 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2012 17:17:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] computer work at a public school this Saturday
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4q-P0O-cWQ-nrPs=hQ0HWdMZPNj5rhEGQD1yKNymnxNbA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4pPs6HbLCW1gfYahFwpwrRhWnWWwuc7CbXEYO8OMk5dZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thx very much to everyone who showed up today to help prepare for
installing Linux on the 5th grade math teacher's computers.  We got some
very important work done today, and enjoyed our signature Partimus
specialty pizza!
On Jul 26, 2012 5:22 PM, "Christian Einfeldt" <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Partimus.org will be setting up a computer network in the math class of
> the KIPP San Francisco Bay Academy this Saturday, July 28, from 1 pm to 4
> pm.  Pizza will be served for all volunteers.  We will possibly be going up
> and down some stairs, although I am planning on using the elevator for most
> of the work.  The math teacher will use these computers for on-line math
> programs, and she really loves these computers.  Any help is appreciated.
> Please bring copies of Ubuntu 12.04.1 on USB and CD.  Please also bring
> tools that you would typically need to triage and fix desktop machines.
>
> If you would like to help, please come to the corner of O'Farrell and
> Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite
> large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that there might
> be other people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I
> will get to each of you as soon as I can.
>
> Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.
>
> Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
>
>
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Jul 29 11:53:21 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:53:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Problem with Kate
Message-ID: <501586A1.1080004@dslextreme.com>

     Kate is an editor and suddenly it stopped responding to the
keyboard delete, cursor, and backspace keys.
     These keys work in every other editor and word processor
I use.
     I have twice removed kate and reinstalled it.
     The first time that is all I did.  The second time
I manually deleted the directories that had to do with
kate before re-installation.
     Still have the same problem.

     Any ideas?

     Thanks for your attention

     Bobbie Sellers



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Jul 29 12:07:11 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 12:07:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Problem with Kate
In-Reply-To: <501586A1.1080004@dslextreme.com>
References: <501586A1.1080004@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <501589DF.40005@dslextreme.com>

On 07/29/2012 11:53 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>     Kate is an editor and suddenly it stopped responding to the
> keyboard delete, cursor, and backspace keys.
>     These keys work in every other editor and word processor
> I use.
>     I have twice removed kate and reinstalled it.
>     The first time that is all I did.  The second time
> I manually deleted the directories that had to do with
> kate before re-installation.
>     Still have the same problem.
>
>     Any ideas?
>
>     Thanks for your attention
>
>     Bobbie Sellers


     And with in 10 minutes of writing this and sending it
I found the corrupted configuration files and deleting them
seems to have fixed the problem.

     Sorry for bothering you all.

     Bobbie



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sun Jul 29 16:06:16 2012
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:06:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] lost right-click menu but only in thunderbird
Message-ID: <5015C1E8.3080101@gmail.com>

this is weird.

ubuntu 12.04, unity 2d, mostly stock, although i did install a couple of 
programs (gnome-tweak-tool and ubuntu-tweak)

to allow me to tweak the windows the way i like, for instance focus 
follows mouse so i can leave one window open and type in the one behind it.

here's the weird part:

in thunderbird, i can no longer right-click on an item and get a menu.

i can highlight and right-click, but nothing happens. so i can't spell 
check, and i can't select an email address and copy it or add it to my 
address book.

this is only in thunderbird; in all other programs (firefox, xchat, 
terminal, arduino), and all other things i've used (i don't use that 
many) the right click menu works fine.

how can i regain my right click menu?

m



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Jul 30 12:58:53 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 12:58:53 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Lug meeting Sunday August 5, 2012
Message-ID: <5016E77D.6090601@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.  Meeting times
are nominal which means that if you aren?t there by 12:30 PM
you could miss the meeting.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 6 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Hope you can make it.  My simple ambition is to have a running
version of Mandriva 2011 installed by Saturday night.

     Bobbie Sellers





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Jul 30 13:05:13 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2012 13:05:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Microsoft=B4s_messes=2E=2E=2E?=
Message-ID: <5016E8F9.2030406@dslextreme.com>

Hi LUGgers,
     Take a look as someone has pulled nearly all the references together

<http://www.kmfms.com/whatsbad.html>

     A page with all the idiocy that Ms has tried to perpetuate.
	It contains further URLs with details of the companies
that Ms has shot down and developers suppressed.  The quality
of Ms programming has declined with programs twice as large
as required...
	Read it if you need further evidence of why FOSS is
the right choice.

	Bobbie Sellers





From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jul 31 11:11:32 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1343758292.35925.YahooMailRC@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Jul 31 22:55:40 2012
From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 22:55:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis,
	August 20: "Open Clip Art Library"
Message-ID: <201208010555.q715teKb001107@bolt.sonic.net>


The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting:

  Monday
  August 20, 2012
  7:00pm - 9:00pm

Presentation:

  "Open Clip Art Library (OCAL)"
  Pete Ippel, Fabricatorz

    The Open Clip Art Library (OCAL) project aims to create an archive of
    clip art that can be used for free for any use.  It is the largest
    collaboration community that creates, shares and remixes clip art.
    All clipart is released to the public domain and may be used in any
    project for free and with no restrictions.

    Started in early 2004 by Inkscape developers to collect designs
    of flags from all around the world, it progressed very well and
    the project goals were extended to generic clipart.  It currently
    incorporates 10s of 1000s of images from over 2400 artists.
    Images are stored in Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) format,
    often with thumbnails in Portable Network Graphics (PNG) raster format.

    OCAL is powered by the Aiki Framework, created to build OCAL 3.0 in 2011,
    a flexible PHP + MySQL (LAMP) web application framework that allows
    designers and programmers to easily create and work with existing
    content management systems from the web.  The goal of Aiki Framework
    is to make a fast system for developing heavily trafficked communities
    where developers are used to editing source code, but can not directly
    because of necessary security precautions in running a web server.

About the Speaker:

  Pete Ippel is a developer at Fabricatorz and artist. He is involved in
  the Open Clip Art Library as well as the Open Font Library, Qi-Hardware
  (copyleft hardware), and the Sharism movement.


This meeting will be held at:

  Yolo County Library, Mary L. Stephen's Davis Branch
  Blanchard Community Room
  315 East 14th Street
  Davis, California 95616


For more details on this meeting, visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/


For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/


------------
About LUGOD:
------------

  The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
  dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source
  and Free Software.

  Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers
  in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater
  Sacramento region.  Events are always free and open to the public.

  Please visit our website for more details:  http://www.lugod.org/


-- 
Bill Kendrick
pr at lugod.org
Public Relations Officer
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/

(Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com )



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 18:18:44 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:18:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] First peek at the Intuit notebook donation
Message-ID: <CAJdae4qANd3-CAb7eK-EV0b77JqXWoFwXHz7yjyoiEzRuqzv6A@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Partimus has received a donation of 19 notebook computers and two desktop
computers with flat screen monitors for placement in underprivileged public
schools!  Yay!  Thanks to Intel for donating these computers; thanks to
Steve Camuti of Intuit for carrying the ball inside Intuit to make this
happen; and thanks to Tom Stevenson of Arrow-Intechra for executing the
donation!  Thanks also to attorney Albert Stoll for providing the space to
receive this donation, because school is now out of session, and so we had
the computers delivered to his law office.

Now we just need to find a volunteer with a car who can drive the equipment
about 4 miles from their current location to the school where they will be
used!

The unboxing pics are here:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/116904638361799818523/posts/WKYozSyAtj7
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 18:25:30 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 18:25:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] First peek at the Intuit notebook donation
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4qANd3-CAb7eK-EV0b77JqXWoFwXHz7yjyoiEzRuqzv6A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4qANd3-CAb7eK-EV0b77JqXWoFwXHz7yjyoiEzRuqzv6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4o80igW6XjobzON-hu-XLtaZNT8WY5oizHOZvUXVwhpLg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Somehow computers are strange things.  My post below dropped a sentence
thanking Jim Stockford for introducing me to Steve Camuti.  Jim got the
ball rolling!

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi,
>
> Partimus has received a donation of 19 notebook computers and two desktop
> computers with flat screen monitors for placement in underprivileged public
> schools!  Yay!  Thanks to Intel for donating these computers; thanks to
> Steve Camuti of Intuit for carrying the ball inside Intuit to make this
> happen; and thanks to Tom Stevenson of Arrow-Intechra for executing the
> donation!  Thanks also to attorney Albert Stoll for providing the space to
> receive this donation, because school is now out of session, and so we had
> the computers delivered to his law office.
>
> Now we just need to find a volunteer with a car who can drive the
> equipment about 4 miles from their current location to the school where
> they will be used!
>
> The unboxing pics are here:
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/116904638361799818523/posts/WKYozSyAtj7
>
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Aug  5 16:03:31 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2012 16:03:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting today August 5, 2012
Message-ID: <501EFBC3.1080001@dslextreme.com>

Hi SF-LUGgers,

     Well again the next meeting is about two weeks from tomorrow
so I am sending in an early report in case details get lost again.
     I arrived via the #38 Geary and got to the Cafe Enchante about 1045 
and had
gotten my Presario set up and secured a decaf drink for myself then the 
rest of
the Sunday Group showed up.

     Ken Schaeffer and wife,  John Strazziano and wife (who was working 
on a
tablet or smart phone). Jim Stockford and myself.  Ken tried out a USB 
flash drive
with Ubuntu setup on a flash drive on my behemoth then we tested its 
functions
briefly but he had set it up with  the Broadcom wireless driver so we 
had trouble
getting it to go online.

     John brought his iPad II in a cool looking case from Ballistic 
which provides hard
protection for the screen and case.  Jim brought a tale of problems with 
his tower
installed with AVLinux which has several problems.  I think Ken and John 
gave
him some useful input.   I have my computer setup to notify me of Port Scans
and one was attempted as I was rebooting from Ubuntu.

     I showed Ken and Jim a few  tricks I can do with the firewall thru the
Mandriva (or Main) Control Center which lets the root user access the 
hardware
  and software and which let me set up with about 5 clicks a firewall 
after that
port scan had been executed on my machine.  And it was repeated.  Maybe
someone had a virus that was trying to spread thru the local WiFi.

   I really like this feature of Mandriva i.e. MCC which is also 
available on Mageia.

   Because Jim, Ken and John had a lot to talk about  we stayed until 
about 1:30 PM.
Jim gave me a ride  home.

     I thought despite the size it was an excellent meeting.

     later
     Bobbie Sellers



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Aug  5 19:00:51 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2012 19:00:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] First peek at the Intuit notebook donation
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4o80igW6XjobzON-hu-XLtaZNT8WY5oizHOZvUXVwhpLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4qANd3-CAb7eK-EV0b77JqXWoFwXHz7yjyoiEzRuqzv6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4o80igW6XjobzON-hu-XLtaZNT8WY5oizHOZvUXVwhpLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4oNnNOtfEc8khEWR-Ejq5_m=aeOP7ZVa8Nu1RU48qoanQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This weekend, Partimus Board member Elizabeth Krumbach and I moved the
Intuit notebook computers from their temporary home at Albert G. Stoll's
office, where they were received while school was out of session, to the
Creative Arts Charter School, a public charter school in San Francisco's
Western Addition.  The blog with pics is here:

http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357

Thanks to Elizabeth Krumbach for helping us get them over there, and thanks
to Intuit for the great donation!  Thanks also to Jim Stockford for hooking
us up with Steve Camuti, who carried the ball at Intuit to get this
wonderful donation!


On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Somehow computers are strange things.  My post below dropped a sentence
> thanking Jim Stockford for introducing me to Steve Camuti.  Jim got the
> ball rolling!
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> Partimus has received a donation of 19 notebook computers and two desktop
>> computers with flat screen monitors for placement in underprivileged public
>> schools!  Yay!  Thanks to Intel for donating these computers; thanks to
>> Steve Camuti of Intuit for carrying the ball inside Intuit to make this
>> happen; and thanks to Tom Stevenson of Arrow-Intechra for executing the
>> donation!  Thanks also to attorney Albert Stoll for providing the space to
>> receive this donation, because school is now out of session, and so we had
>> the computers delivered to his law office.
>>
>> Now we just need to find a volunteer with a car who can drive the
>> equipment about 4 miles from their current location to the school where
>> they will be used!
>>
>> The unboxing pics are here:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/116904638361799818523/posts/WKYozSyAtj7
>>
>
>
>
>
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From jim at well.com  Mon Aug  6 12:23:23 2012
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:23:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting today August 5, 2012 -- Android SDK
In-Reply-To: <501EFBC3.1080001@dslextreme.com>
References: <501EFBC3.1080001@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <1344281003.2134.176.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



    Also, Ken suggested using the Android SDK 
http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html 
which provides an emulator that effectively 
gives you an Android device for any internet 
services or software designed to see (or is 
restricted to) Android devices. 





On Sun, 2012-08-05 at 16:03 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Hi SF-LUGgers,
> 
>      Well again the next meeting is about two weeks from tomorrow
> so I am sending in an early report in case details get lost again.
>      I arrived via the #38 Geary and got to the Cafe Enchante about 1045 
> and had
> gotten my Presario set up and secured a decaf drink for myself then the 
> rest of
> the Sunday Group showed up.
> 
>      Ken Schaeffer and wife,  John Strazziano and wife (who was working 
> on a
> tablet or smart phone). Jim Stockford and myself.  Ken tried out a USB 
> flash drive
> with Ubuntu setup on a flash drive on my behemoth then we tested its 
> functions
> briefly but he had set it up with  the Broadcom wireless driver so we 
> had trouble
> getting it to go online.
> 
>      John brought his iPad II in a cool looking case from Ballistic 
> which provides hard
> protection for the screen and case.  Jim brought a tale of problems with 
> his tower
> installed with AVLinux which has several problems.  I think Ken and John 
> gave
> him some useful input.   I have my computer setup to notify me of Port Scans
> and one was attempted as I was rebooting from Ubuntu.
> 
>      I showed Ken and Jim a few  tricks I can do with the firewall thru the
> Mandriva (or Main) Control Center which lets the root user access the 
> hardware
>   and software and which let me set up with about 5 clicks a firewall 
> after that
> port scan had been executed on my machine.  And it was repeated.  Maybe
> someone had a virus that was trying to spread thru the local WiFi.
> 
>    I really like this feature of Mandriva i.e. MCC which is also 
> available on Mageia.
> 
>    Because Jim, Ken and John had a lot to talk about  we stayed until 
> about 1:30 PM.
> Jim gave me a ride  home.
> 
>      I thought despite the size it was an excellent meeting.
> 
>      later
>      Bobbie Sellers
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug  6 13:19:23 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:19:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] higher resolution displays due in 2013
Message-ID: <502026CB.1050304@dslextreme.com>

  Hi LUGgers,

     We have spoken of the Retina display and the latest models of
MacBook Pro displays in some posts.
     The clue is not to search on High Definition Displays but on
high resolution displays.   I got interested while looking up
a problem for a seemingly ignorant user

    According to Intel the Retina level resolution or better is on the
way for all next generation computing equipment.

<http://www.zdnet.com/blog/computers/intel-says-to-expect-retina-display-quality-laptops-all-in-one-desktops-in-2013/7892>

     Bobbie Sellers



From jim at systemateka.com  Mon Aug  6 13:41:14 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 13:41:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to run software automatically at start up;
 how to make a ram disk
Message-ID: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


    Last Sunday we were playing with startup programming. 

    Here's a link to Artem Nosulchik's Linux Screw article 
on making a ram disk. 

http://www.linuxscrew.com/2010/03/24/fastest-way-to-create-ramdisk-in-ubuntulinux/ 

    It's nicely written--right to the point and clear as 
a bell. One of the purposes he explains is for using lots 
of small files, for example a suite of Perl scripts in a 
ram disk avoids the latency of hard disk access for each 
script or data file accessed. 
    Among the readers' congratulatory comments, someone 
mentions using the RAM disk to spare multiple writes to 
an SSD device (I'm assuming the software in use writes to 
the ram disk and at the end of a session or every so often, 
the user copies the contents of the ram disk to the SSD). 

    What's that to do with startup programming? Another 
reader asks how to set the system up so the ram disk is 
created at boot time. Yet another reader provides a link: 
http://www.ubuntuka.com/autostart-ubuntu-startup/ 

    Use System > Preferences > Startup Applications and 
click the add button to add whatever you'd like to run at 
start time: for example, your create a ram disk shell 
script. 
    I'll try that now and report. 






From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 14:53:05 2012
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 14:53:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to run software automatically at start up;
 how to make a ram disk
In-Reply-To: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAAMNwFHs2bgfPUi6_o583RJegz1_Rciyho6nPdHgAMGVQS=fAg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,
For my usb setup, I just put in the below two line into fstab:

# update-manager cannot see any space in /tmp when ramfs used
tmpfs        /tmp        tmpfs    size=256M,mode=1777    0    0
ramfs        /var/log    ramfs    mode=755        0    0

Then any program using /tmp gets the benefit of fast ram-based access.
I can then add specific links to /tmp, like /var/cache/apt/archives, so my
package
downloads for updates don't need to write to the usb flash memory.
Ken
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From jim at well.com  Mon Aug  6 15:04:23 2012
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:04:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to run software automatically at start up;
 how to make a ram disk
In-Reply-To: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <1344290663.1771.55.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


    (Reporting on startup application using Ubuntu 10.04 
with Gnome 2.30.2). 
    I wrote a simple shell script /home/jim/bin/hi.sh 

-------------------
#!/bin/bash
# test script 

echo "
hello 
" > ~/Desktop/hiwashere 

echo "
hello
" 
read 
-------------------

I changed its permissions to be executable 
$ chmod 755  ~/bin/hi.sh 

    I used System > Preferences > Startup Applications 
and added ~/bin/hi.sh to the list. 

    I restarted the box and things seemed to behave as they 
always do--not a good sign. 
    Turns out the script had run. It created the file 
~/Desktop/hiwashere but the file icon was not visible as 
it was located in the upper left corner under another file 
icon that was larger. So by default new file icons seem to 
be added to the upper left corner regardless of another file 
icon's mapping to that location, and the new file icon is 
obscured by the older file icon. 
    I'd expected to see a terminal window showing 
hello 
waiting for me to hit the Enter key, but that was not the 
case, and when I used the  ps  command I could see there was 
no process ID for a waiting terminal window (thinking maybe 
a bash shell was still active and somehow its window didn't 
appear in the GUI. 
    It seems odd to me that the shell instance terminated: 
as if something sent a kill command to the process or 
something sent it a newline character via stdin. 




On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 13:41 -0700, jim wrote:
> Last Sunday we were playing with startup programming. 
> 
>     Here's a link to Artem Nosulchik's Linux Screw article 
> on making a ram disk. 
> 
> http://www.linuxscrew.com/2010/03/24/fastest-way-to-create-ramdisk-in-ubuntulinux/ 
> 
>     It's nicely written--right to the point and clear as 
> a bell. One of the purposes he explains is for using lots 
> of small files, for example a suite of Perl scripts in a 
> ram disk avoids the latency of hard disk access for each 
> script or data file accessed. 
>     Among the readers' congratulatory comments, someone 
> mentions using the RAM disk to spare multiple writes to 
> an SSD device (I'm assuming the software in use writes to 
> the ram disk and at the end of a session or every so often, 
> the user copies the contents of the ram disk to the SSD). 
> 
>     What's that to do with startup programming? Another 
> reader asks how to set the system up so the ram disk is 
> created at boot time. Yet another reader provides a link: 
> http://www.ubuntuka.com/autostart-ubuntu-startup/ 
> 
>     Use System > Preferences > Startup Applications and 
> click the add button to add whatever you'd like to run at 
> start time: for example, your create a ram disk shell 
> script. 
>     I'll try that now and report. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From jim at systemateka.com  Mon Aug  6 15:24:01 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:24:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to run software automatically at start up;
 how to make a ram disk
In-Reply-To: <CAAMNwFHs2bgfPUi6_o583RJegz1_Rciyho6nPdHgAMGVQS=fAg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1344285674.2134.200.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
	<CAAMNwFHs2bgfPUi6_o583RJegz1_Rciyho6nPdHgAMGVQS=fAg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1344291841.1771.68.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


Thanks lots, Ken. 
    I had to ponder some. I went to 
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2008/11/overview-of-ramfs-and-tmpfs-on-linux/ 
to read about the difference between ramfs and tmpfs 
(another to-the-point, clear, useful article). 

    Great tip about making symlinks to spare the SSD! 

    For those interested: 
* ramfs creates a ram disk and will grow as one adds 
files. Warning: ramfs will grow to consume all ram. 
* tmpfs creates a ram disk of a certain size, and as 
files grow over the ram disk size, tmpfs uses swap. 

    I believe the following mount commands do what Ken's 
/etc/fstab entries do, though they'll be gone after 
shutdown: 
# mount -t tmpfs -o size=256M tmpfs /tmp/      ; chmod -777 /tmp/ 
# mount -t ramfs -o size=250M ramfs /var/log/  ; chmod 755 /var/log/ 

    and an example symlinks command might be 
# ln -s /tmp/ /var/cache/apt/archives/ 



On Mon, 2012-08-06 at 14:53 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote:
> Hi Jim,
> For my usb setup, I just put in the below two line into fstab:
> 
> # update-manager cannot see any space in /tmp when ramfs used
> tmpfs        /tmp        tmpfs    size=256M,mode=1777    0    0
> ramfs        /var/log    ramfs    mode=755        0    0
> 
> Then any program using /tmp gets the benefit of fast ram-based access.
> I can then add specific links to /tmp, like /var/cache/apt/archives,
> so my package
> downloads for updates don't need to write to the usb flash memory.
> Ken
> 
> 
> 





From cymraegish at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 20:59:12 2012
From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:59:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] higher resolution displays due in 2013
In-Reply-To: <502026CB.1050304@dslextreme.com>
References: <502026CB.1050304@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAEcATJRAswByUF8Wcb4g6bCEcNX0SgwOVqfhxtGHuMzPE29J-Q@mail.gmail.com>

HP has had a 30" WQXGA (2560 x 1600) monitor for ~4 years, that is a couple
hundred cheaper than Apple Monitor and 3 year warranty included.

I don't know of any others but if you find any I would like to know

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com
> wrote:

>  Hi LUGgers,
>
>     We have spoken of the Retina display and the latest models of
> MacBook Pro displays in some posts.
>     The clue is not to search on High Definition Displays but on
> high resolution displays.   I got interested while looking up
> a problem for a seemingly ignorant user
>
>    According to Intel the Retina level resolution or better is on the
> way for all next generation computing equipment.
>
> <http://www.zdnet.com/blog/**computers/intel-says-to-**
> expect-retina-display-quality-**laptops-all-in-one-desktops-**in-2013/7892<http://www.zdnet.com/blog/computers/intel-says-to-expect-retina-display-quality-laptops-all-in-one-desktops-in-2013/7892>
> >
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug<http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug>
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From mhigashi at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 22:29:24 2012
From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 22:29:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] higher resolution displays due in 2013
In-Reply-To: <CAEcATJRAswByUF8Wcb4g6bCEcNX0SgwOVqfhxtGHuMzPE29J-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <502026CB.1050304@dslextreme.com>
	<CAEcATJRAswByUF8Wcb4g6bCEcNX0SgwOVqfhxtGHuMzPE29J-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADsu0t-qK352WATntsr227wLygLH8PRgUPO0vYbigCsXpOBt1g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Brian Morris <cymraegish at gmail.com> wrote:
> HP has had a 30" WQXGA (2560 x 1600) monitor for ~4 years, that is a
couple
> hundred cheaper than Apple Monitor and 3 year warranty included.

"Higher resolution" can be used a couple of different ways.

One is "more pixels", as with the WQXGA display. The other is "more pixels
per inch", as with the Apple Retina displays.

If you miniaturized that 30" display down to about 12", you'll have a pixel
density
equivalent to a Retina display, which is what the link Bobbie provided was
talking about.

Mike
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From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Aug  7 10:50:27 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 10:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1344361827.50090.YahooMailRC@web181404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From cymraegish at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 21:23:16 2012
From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2012 21:23:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] higher resolution displays due in 2013
In-Reply-To: <CADsu0t-qK352WATntsr227wLygLH8PRgUPO0vYbigCsXpOBt1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <502026CB.1050304@dslextreme.com>
	<CAEcATJRAswByUF8Wcb4g6bCEcNX0SgwOVqfhxtGHuMzPE29J-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADsu0t-qK352WATntsr227wLygLH8PRgUPO0vYbigCsXpOBt1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEcATJQ+yG_TdEZFX8JRT=cTEZpHLr6ZRLwaQ5svyBYwFNs95Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Mike Higashi <mhigashi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Brian Morris <cymraegish at gmail.com> wrote:
> > HP has had a 30" WQXGA (2560 x 1600) monitor for ~4 years, that is a
> couple
> > hundred cheaper than Apple Monitor and 3 year warranty included.
>
>
> If you miniaturized that 30" display down to about 12", you'll have a
> pixel density
> equivalent to a Retina display, which is what the link Bobbie provided was
> talking about.
>

oh, but if you expanded the 12" to 30" keeping the pixel density ...  are
we to expect that anytime soon ?

Apple is calling their new 15" macbook pro a retina display and (I think)
it is the same WQXGA resolution (total pixels) By contrast, the former
models high rez display option was 1680x1050 (about 50% more pixels than
the standard one) Having used one of these, I have to say I would rather
put the $$ toward a big monitor. I just want to keep the pixel density of a
standard 15" screen in the 30" size. Seems to me like HDTV resolution
1920x1080 should max out around 24"
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Aug  8 11:23:33 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2012 11:23:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] For John S. What is happening inside Microsoft...
Message-ID: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>

At a recent meeting John Strazzarino asked a question about that ugly 
company and this is where
I got the information to reply to him.
It was originally a post on my Team Amiga Mailing List.

Analyzing one of American corporate history?s greatest mysteries?the 
lost decade of Microsoft?two-time George Polk Award winner (and V.F.?s 
newest contributing editor) Kurt Eichenwald traces the ?astonishingly 
foolish management decisions? at the company that ?could serve as a 
business-school case study on the pitfalls of success.? Relying on 
dozens of interviews and internal corporate records?including e-mails 
between executives at the company?s highest ranks?Eichenwald offers an 
unprecedented view of life inside Microsoft during the reign of its 
current chief executive, Steve Ballmer, in the August issue. Today, a 
single Apple product?the iPhone?generates more revenue than all of 
Microsoft?s wares combined.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer 



I know this is a Linux mailing list but I think keeping up with the big 
ugly company
is a healthy thing to do. By the way on the new Windows 8 they have made 
using
the ugly blocky interface mandatory rather than letting it be bypassed 
by the user.
<http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said-to-block-ability-to-boot-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/ 
 >


Reading up on the specs such as they are for the Surface I learned that 
they have the regular
model with multicore ARM. This means that secure boot cannot be 
bypassed. That stricture on
ARM appliances using Microsoft was already announced.

The Surface Pro comes with much more RAM and a 4-core i5 processor so I 
guess it might
be more susceptible to alternative FOSS operating systems. I have to 
wonder what sort of
battery life that might afford. But so far no specs for the display or 
the battery life on any model.

What they are showing about the Surface might as well be computer 
generated images.

Bobbie Sellers







From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Aug  8 13:37:12 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2012 13:37:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] For John S. What is happening inside Microsoft...
In-Reply-To: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>
References: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4q4D+RsA0QZxNu4K=gBFqUbk3t-L0nZ09pWzvkq_aJm9g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbie,

Thanks for this really interesting read.  I find it amazing that the iPhone
generates more revenue than all of Microsoft's ware combined.  That is
difficult to fathom.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Bobbie Sellers <
bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:

> At a recent meeting John Strazzarino asked a question about that ugly
> company and this is where
> I got the information to reply to him.
> It was originally a post on my Team Amiga Mailing List.
>
> Analyzing one of American corporate history?s greatest mysteries?the lost
> decade of Microsoft?two-time George Polk Award winner (and V.F.?s newest
> contributing editor) Kurt Eichenwald traces the ?astonishingly foolish
> management decisions? at the company that ?could serve as a business-school
> case study on the pitfalls of success.? Relying on dozens of interviews and
> internal corporate records?including e-mails between executives at the
> company?s highest ranks?Eichenwald offers an unprecedented view of life
> inside Microsoft during the reign of its current chief executive, Steve
> Ballmer, in the August issue. Today, a single Apple product?the
> iPhone?generates more revenue than all of Microsoft?s wares combined.
>
> http://www.vanityfair.com/**online/daily/2012/07/**
> microsoft-downfall-emails-**steve-ballmer<http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer>
>
>
> I know this is a Linux mailing list but I think keeping up with the big
> ugly company
> is a healthy thing to do. By the way on the new Windows 8 they have made
> using
> the ugly blocky interface mandatory rather than letting it be bypassed by
> the user.
> <http://www.zdnet.com/**microsoft-said-to-block-**
> ability-to-boot-straight-to-**desktop-in-windows-8-**7000002219/<http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said-to-block-ability-to-boot-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/>>
>
>
> Reading up on the specs such as they are for the Surface I learned that
> they have the regular
> model with multicore ARM. This means that secure boot cannot be bypassed.
> That stricture on
> ARM appliances using Microsoft was already announced.
>
> The Surface Pro comes with much more RAM and a 4-core i5 processor so I
> guess it might
> be more susceptible to alternative FOSS operating systems. I have to
> wonder what sort of
> battery life that might afford. But so far no specs for the display or the
> battery life on any model.
>
> What they are showing about the Surface might as well be computer
> generated images.
>
> Bobbie Sellers
>
>
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From jim at systemateka.com  Thu Aug  9 09:15:13 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:15:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] For John S. What is happening inside Microsoft...
In-Reply-To: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>
References: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <1344528913.1688.85.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



(my response to the linked article) 
    I worked in a place that had similar "stack ranking" 
policies. There it didn't seem to affect morale, which 
was notably good. 
    As a contrast,, the former CEO of Costco remarked 
that culture is not the most important thing, it's the 
only thing. This refers to the zeitgeist of the community 
of employees. 
    In short, I think the criticism is better directed at 
upper management's policies that neglect to nurture each 
engineer and to work to match each to an appropriate task 
area. 




On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 11:23 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> At a recent meeting John Strazzarino asked a question about that ugly 
> company and this is where
> I got the information to reply to him.
> It was originally a post on my Team Amiga Mailing List.
> 
> Analyzing one of American corporate history?s greatest mysteries?the 
> lost decade of Microsoft?two-time George Polk Award winner (and V.F.?s 
> newest contributing editor) Kurt Eichenwald traces the ?astonishingly 
> foolish management decisions? at the company that ?could serve as a 
> business-school case study on the pitfalls of success.? Relying on 
> dozens of interviews and internal corporate records?including e-mails 
> between executives at the company?s highest ranks?Eichenwald offers an 
> unprecedented view of life inside Microsoft during the reign of its 
> current chief executive, Steve Ballmer, in the August issue. Today, a 
> single Apple product?the iPhone?generates more revenue than all of 
> Microsoft?s wares combined.
> 
> http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is a Linux mailing list but I think keeping up with the big 
> ugly company
> is a healthy thing to do. By the way on the new Windows 8 they have made 
> using
> the ugly blocky interface mandatory rather than letting it be bypassed 
> by the user.
> <http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said-to-block-ability-to-boot-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/ 
>  >
> 
> 
> Reading up on the specs such as they are for the Surface I learned that 
> they have the regular
> model with multicore ARM. This means that secure boot cannot be 
> bypassed. That stricture on
> ARM appliances using Microsoft was already announced.
> 
> The Surface Pro comes with much more RAM and a 4-core i5 processor so I 
> guess it might
> be more susceptible to alternative FOSS operating systems. I have to 
> wonder what sort of
> battery life that might afford. But so far no specs for the display or 
> the battery life on any model.
> 
> What they are showing about the Surface might as well be computer 
> generated images.
> 
> Bobbie Sellers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Aug  9 09:34:21 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:34:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] For John S. What is happening inside Microsoft...
In-Reply-To: <1344528913.1688.85.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <5022AEA5.90603@dslextreme.com>
	<1344528913.1688.85.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <5023E68D.1040506@dslextreme.com>

On 08/09/2012 09:15 AM, jim wrote:

>
> (my response to the linked article)
>      I worked in a place that had similar "stack ranking"
> policies. There it didn't seem to affect morale, which
> was notably good.
>      As a contrast,, the former CEO of Costco remarked
> that culture is not the most important thing, it's the
> only thing. This refers to the zeitgeist of the community
> of employees.
>      In short, I think the criticism is better directed at
> upper management's policies that neglect to nurture each
> engineer and to work to match each to an appropriate task
> area.

     I think the point of the article is that the MS upper management
is not doing the job the way you describe but instead perverting the
idea.   I hope you read all three pages of the article.  It describes
teams working against each other to slow down project completion.

     The Surface internals design is surely the result of such work.

     The exterior is fine from the little we know.  Some correspondents
have suggested the models will both be HD High Density TV capable
at 1280 x 800 for the consumer model and HDTV 1920 x 1080.  I
don?t have a clear source for this just MS remarks that were made
pre-Retina.  Android tablets are more competition for Apple than
this will be IMO.  When the Android machines get the benefits of
the new higher resolution displays they may run both iPads and
Surface out of the marketplace.

     Bobbie
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 2012-08-08 at 11:23 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> At a recent meeting John Strazzarino asked a question about that ugly
>> company and this is where
>> I got the information to reply to him.
>> It was originally a post on my Team Amiga Mailing List.
>>
>> Analyzing one of American corporate history?s greatest mysteries?the
>> lost decade of Microsoft?two-time George Polk Award winner (and V.F.?s
>> newest contributing editor) Kurt Eichenwald traces the ?astonishingly
>> foolish management decisions? at the company that ?could serve as a
>> business-school case study on the pitfalls of success.? Relying on
>> dozens of interviews and internal corporate records?including e-mails
>> between executives at the company?s highest ranks?Eichenwald offers an
>> unprecedented view of life inside Microsoft during the reign of its
>> current chief executive, Steve Ballmer, in the August issue. Today, a
>> single Apple product?the iPhone?generates more revenue than all of
>> Microsoft?s wares combined.
>>
>> <http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/07/microsoft-downfall-emails-steve-ballmer>
>>
>>
>>
>> I know this is a Linux mailing list but I think keeping up with the big
>> ugly company
>> is a healthy thing to do. By the way on the new Windows 8 they have made
>> using
>> the ugly blocky interface mandatory rather than letting it be bypassed
>> by the user.
>> <http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-said-to-block-ability-to-boot-straight-to-desktop-in-windows-8-7000002219/
>>   >
>>
>>
>> Reading up on the specs such as they are for the Surface I learned that
>> they have the regular
>> model with multicore ARM. This means that secure boot cannot be
>> bypassed. That stricture on
>> ARM appliances using Microsoft was already announced.
>>
>> The Surface Pro comes with much more RAM and a 4-core i5 processor so I
>> guess it might
>> be more susceptible to alternative FOSS operating systems. I have to
>> wonder what sort of
>> battery life that might afford. But so far no specs for the display or
>> the battery life on any model.
>>
>> What they are showing about the Surface might as well be computer
>> generated images.
>>
>> Bobbie Sellers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>




From jim at systemateka.com  Thu Aug  9 09:56:13 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:56:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Cabal this Saturday in Menlo Park -- late afternoon and
	evening
Message-ID: <1344531373.1688.90.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


    Rick Moen stopped by the Linux discussion group 
meeting last night (at Noisebridge, Wednesday evenings 
from 6 to 8 PM) and, among other things, announced the 
usual Saturday 4 PM to midnight Linux get-together in 
Menlo Park (meets the second and fourth Saturdays of 
each month). 

http://linuxmafia.com/bale/#cabal 





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sat Aug 11 17:21:32 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 17:21:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI motherboard available SUSE UEFI plans
Message-ID: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>

     Stories give details.

<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Aldi-PC-becomes-first-retail-PC-with-UEFI-Secure-Boot-1635893.html>

     SUSE story:

<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>

     A bit shorter and more comprehensible (to me).

<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>

     Comment on the plans of SUSE from a Fedora devloper

<http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/15818.html>

     It is the end of my day for useful reading so I am not
sure I understand much of what is being said.

     Bobbie Sellers



From audvare at gmail.com  Sat Aug 11 18:24:26 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 18:24:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI motherboard available SUSE UEFI plans
In-Reply-To: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>
References: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>

Well, at least the option is there and it is disable-able, for *this*
machine.

But the fact remains that manufacturers (including those that sell
motherboards retail to those amongst us who build our systems ourselves)
are under *no* obligation to add this option.

For those like me who build their system nearly entirely (Gentoo user
here), and build their own machines, this is a pretty big concern. And I do
like to use Gentoo on laptops too. And again there the problem remains
(which is why I plan to buy Apple laptops as long as they don't do anything
similar; they already had EFI, years ahead and ELILO works there). So while
Apple laptops may not be the best for performance (especially when compared
by price), I might have to stick with that if UEFI without the ability to
disable becomes prevalent.

Support Apple here. At least they do not do this crap on their laptops and
machines (note I didn't mention iOS devices).

I would not mind having a secure boot mechanism for security reasons. I
don't think UEFI Secure Boot is the answer to the problem. Windows is the
only system that is so stupidly coded it needs crap like that. Plus, who
turns on and off their systems so much? ONLY Windows (and lately, Ubuntu).
Even a Mac stays on for months at a time since updates are less frequent,
due to the security actually being good and most updates not requiring a
reboot.

So far we have three betraying distros (who decided to sign the deal with
the devil AKA Microsoft), and anyone using these should stop using them
immediately and let them know:
Ubuntu
Fedora
SUSE/Novell (why am I not surprised?)

We should be extremely concerned. There is no option in place like 'buy
your own certificate' and even if there was, it is ludicrous to pay to run
different software on hardware you own.

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_38597b4306f77aa3569456ed4b0d0db6.xml

Andrew

On Saturday, 11 August 2012, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

>     Stories give details.
>
> <http://www.h-online.com/open/**news/item/Aldi-PC-becomes-**
> first-retail-PC-with-UEFI-**Secure-Boot-1635893.html<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Aldi-PC-becomes-first-retail-PC-with-UEFI-Secure-Boot-1635893.html>
> >
>
>     SUSE story:
>
> <http://www.h-online.com/open/**news/item/SUSE-details-its-**
> Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>
> **>
>
>     A bit shorter and more comprehensible (to me).
>
> <http://www.h-online.com/open/**news/item/SUSE-details-its-**
> Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html<http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>
> **>
>
>     Comment on the plans of SUSE from a Fedora devloper
>
> <http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/**15818.html<http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/15818.html>
> >
>
>     It is the end of my day for useful reading so I am not
> sure I understand much of what is being said.
>
>     Bobbie Sellers
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug<http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug>
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From jim at systemateka.com  Sun Aug 12 13:49:19 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 13:49:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI motherboard available SUSE UEFI plans
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>
	<CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1344804559.1688.203.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


    Do you plan to purchase an Apple laptop and install 
Gentoo on it? 

    What are the possibilities for creating our own 
certificates (individually or via the open source 
community)? 




On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 18:24 -0700, Andrew Udvare wrote:
> Well, at least the option is there and it is disable-able, for *this*
> machine.
> 
> 
> But the fact remains that manufacturers (including those that sell
> motherboards retail to those amongst us who build our systems
> ourselves) are under *no* obligation to add this option.
> 
> 
> For those like me who build their system nearly entirely (Gentoo user
> here), and build their own machines, this is a pretty big concern. And
> I do like to use Gentoo on laptops too. And again there the problem
> remains (which is why I plan to buy Apple laptops as long as they
> don't do anything similar; they already had EFI, years ahead and ELILO
> works there). So while Apple laptops may not be the best for
> performance (especially when compared by price), I might have to stick
> with that if UEFI without the ability to disable becomes prevalent.
> 
> 
> Support Apple here. At least they do not do this crap on their laptops
> and machines (note I didn't mention iOS devices).
> 
> 
> I would not mind having a secure boot mechanism for security reasons.
> I don't think UEFI Secure Boot is the answer to the problem. Windows
> is the only system that is so stupidly coded it needs crap like that.
> Plus, who turns on and off their systems so much? ONLY Windows (and
> lately, Ubuntu). Even a Mac stays on for months at a time since
> updates are less frequent, due to the security actually being good and
> most updates not requiring a reboot.
> 
> 
> So far we have three betraying distros (who decided to sign the deal
> with the devil AKA Microsoft), and anyone using these should stop
> using them immediately and let them know:
> Ubuntu
> Fedora
> SUSE/Novell (why am I not surprised?)
> 
> 
> We should be extremely concerned. There is no option in place like
> 'buy your own certificate' and even if there was, it is ludicrous to
> pay to run different software on hardware you own.
> 
> 
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_38597b4306f77aa3569456ed4b0d0db6.xml
> 
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Saturday, 11 August 2012, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>             Stories give details.
>         
>         <http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Aldi-PC-becomes-first-retail-PC-with-UEFI-Secure-Boot-1635893.html>
>         
>             SUSE story:
>         
>         <http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>
>         
>             A bit shorter and more comprehensible (to me).
>         
>         <http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html>
>         
>             Comment on the plans of SUSE from a Fedora devloper
>         
>         <http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/15818.html>
>         
>             It is the end of my day for useful reading so I am not
>         sure I understand much of what is being said.
>         
>             Bobbie Sellers
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         sf-lug mailing list
>         sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>         http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>         Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From audvare at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 14:10:22 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2012 14:10:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI motherboard available SUSE UEFI plans
In-Reply-To: <1344804559.1688.203.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>
	<CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>
	<1344804559.1688.203.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGqx9AbvbMvE28_iLMgCnjTETjaRFVA_dkOzG73U90-CTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sunday, 12 August 2012, jim wrote:

>
>     Do you plan to purchase an Apple laptop and install
> Gentoo on it?
>

Since I already do this with the MacBook Air my work gave me, I don't see
why this option will not be viable in the near future. I'm not saying years
from now. Who knows what Apple might do.

They have been getting a bit more proprietary in the last 5 years to the
point that TextMate released its 2.0-beta source code in part to make a
point. It's one of the most popular text editors on Mac besides Sublime
(where Sublime is not open source) and I imagine TextMate will not be
appearing in the Mac App Store for a long time unless that is the only way
in (say for example, that the only other way eventually on OS X to run
untrusted code is to 'jailbreak' (find an exploit); then it might end up
being similar to the Windows 8 situation).


>
>     What are the possibilities for creating our own
> certificates (individually or via the open source
> community)?
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 18:24 -0700, Andrew Udvare wrote:
> > Well, at least the option is there and it is disable-able, for *this*
> > machine.
> >
> >
> > But the fact remains that manufacturers (including those that sell
> > motherboards retail to those amongst us who build our systems
> > ourselves) are under *no* obligation to add this option.
> >
> >
> > For those like me who build their system nearly entirely (Gentoo user
> > here), and build their own machines, this is a pretty big concern. And
> > I do like to use Gentoo on laptops too. And again there the problem
> > remains (which is why I plan to buy Apple laptops as long as they
> > don't do anything similar; they already had EFI, years ahead and ELILO
> > works there). So while Apple laptops may not be the best for
> > performance (especially when compared by price), I might have to stick
> > with that if UEFI without the ability to disable becomes prevalent.
> >
> >
> > Support Apple here. At least they do not do this crap on their laptops
> > and machines (note I didn't mention iOS devices).
> >
> >
> > I would not mind having a secure boot mechanism for security reasons.
> > I don't think UEFI Secure Boot is the answer to the problem. Windows
> > is the only system that is so stupidly coded it needs crap like that.
> > Plus, who turns on and off their systems so much? ONLY Windows (and
> > lately, Ubuntu). Even a Mac stays on for months at a time since
> > updates are less frequent, due to the security actually being good and
> > most updates not requiring a reboot.
> >
> >
> > So far we have three betraying distros (who decided to sign the deal
> > with the devil AKA Microsoft), and anyone using these should stop
> > using them immediately and let them know:
> > Ubuntu
> > Fedora
> > SUSE/Novell (why am I not surprised?)
> >
> >
> > We should be extremely concerned. There is no option in place like
> > 'buy your own certificate' and even if there was, it is ludicrous to
> > pay to run different software on hardware you own.
> >
> >
> >
> http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_38597b4306f77aa3569456ed4b0d0db6.xml
> >
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Saturday, 11 August 2012, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> >             Stories give details.
> >
> >         <
> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Aldi-PC-becomes-first-retail-PC-with-UEFI-Secure-Boot-1635893.html
> >
> >
> >             SUSE story:
> >
> >         <
> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html
> >
> >
> >             A bit shorter and more comprehensible (to me).
> >
> >         <
> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/SUSE-details-its-Secure-Boot-plans-1664699.html
> >
> >
> >             Comment on the plans of SUSE from a Fedora devloper
> >
> >         <http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/15818.html>
> >
> >             It is the end of my day for useful reading so I am not
> >         sure I understand much of what is being said.
> >
> >             Bobbie Sellers
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         sf-lug mailing list
> >         sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >         http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >         Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > _______________________________________________
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Aug 13 15:13:47 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 15:13:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] UEFI motherboard available SUSE UEFI plans
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5026F70C.9090203@dslextreme.com>
	<CAJfjkGphoC3ogAkRf5Y6NLA4CJ7aC4AXxfOHVHm61Wws8K8svw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120813221347.GU6238@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Andrew Udvare (audvare at gmail.com):

> But the fact remains that manufacturers (including those that sell
> motherboards retail to those amongst us who build our systems ourselves)
> are under *no* obligation to add this option.

Not quite true.  See below.

> So far we have three betraying distros (who decided to sign the deal with
> the devil AKA Microsoft), and anyone using these should stop using them
> immediately and let them know:
> Ubuntu
> Fedora
> SUSE/Novell (why am I not surprised?)
> 
> We should be extremely concerned. There is no option in place like 'buy
> your own certificate' and even if there was, it is ludicrous to pay to run
> different software on hardware you own.

Having to use a signed shim to boot GRUB2 (approach
projected to be used by Fedora and Novell) or a specific signed copy of
efilinux (approach projected to be used by Ubuntu) is annoying but you
should not overstate the degree of annoyance.  Neither of these
approaches prevents you from running any arbitrary kernel, init, and
userspace software of your choosing, even when fully under the UEFI
SecureBoot regime.

So, except for the bootloader shim (Fedora, Novell) or bootloader
(Ubuntu), your ability to 'build your system nearly entirely' is
unimpaired even under this worst-case scenario.

Moreover, (1) Quoting Steve Langasek, 'Microsoft's Windows 8 logo
requirements do say that there must be a way for users to disable secure
boot or to install their own keys'[1], and (2) You _should_ in any event 
be able to toggle the firmware back to legacy BIOS mode (unless the
firmware manufacturer is stupid or evil and omits that feature).


[1] http://blog.canonical.com/2012/06/22/an-update-on-ubuntu-and-secure-boot/,
as found via LWN.net coverage.  LWN is your best source if you want
non-sensationalistic news coverage of these issues.





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Aug 13 20:22:04 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 20:22:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Lug meeting on Monday August 20
Message-ID: <5029C45C.6010306@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     Meeting times are nominal so if no one brings interesting
problems or discussions along we might leave as early as
7:30 P.M.   When we do have a good topic or interesting
problem we might be there until 9 P.M.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 6 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Hope to see you there.

     Bobbie Sellers




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Wed Aug 15 10:34:32 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:34:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1345052072.87333.YahooMailRC@web181404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Aug 16 17:17:55 2012
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:17:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] ddrescue on a scsi drive
Message-ID: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>

We have a SCSI drive that appears to be corrupt. The filesystem on
this drive is NTFS and was on a Windows box. We are trying to dump the
drive to an image to see if we can recover anything.

I have a box that boots from a Ubuntu 11.10 CD. The box has the
corrupt SCSI drive and a blank SCSI drive. Both SCSI drives are seen
by the BIOS, and once Ubuntu boots up, lsscsi shows the drives as
well. Withun Ubuntu, the blank drive shows up as /dev/sdb1, but
/dev/sda isn't visible. In dmesg, it shows /dev/sda as being corrupt,
and that's it. I'd like to eventually use ddrescue to create a
bitcopy, but without any visibility in /dev I'm not sure what the next
step is.

Ideas? Suggestions?

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://commons.sfsu.edu/
http://olpcsf.org/
http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Thu Aug 16 17:44:40 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:44:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] ddrescue on a scsi drive
In-Reply-To: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <502D93F8.50905@dslextreme.com>

On 08/16/2012 05:17 PM, Sameer Verma wrote:
> We have a SCSI drive that appears to be corrupt. The filesystem on
> this drive is NTFS and was on a Windows box. We are trying to dump the
> drive to an image to see if we can recover anything.
>
> I have a box that boots from a Ubuntu 11.10 CD. The box has the
> corrupt SCSI drive and a blank SCSI drive. Both SCSI drives are seen
> by the BIOS, and once Ubuntu boots up, lsscsi shows the drives as
> well. Withun Ubuntu, the blank drive shows up as /dev/sdb1, but
> /dev/sda isn't visible. In dmesg, it shows /dev/sda as being corrupt,
> and that's it. I'd like to eventually use ddrescue to create a
> bitcopy, but without any visibility in /dev I'm not sure what the next
> step is.
>
> Ideas? Suggestions?
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
         Have you tried a live rescue CD distribution such as Knoppix?
     Also have SystemRescueCD 2.7.0 on hand presently.  Be happy
to let you use my copy in this matter.

         Bobbie



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Aug 16 23:15:38 2012
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 23:15:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] ddrescue on a scsi drive
In-Reply-To: <502D93F8.50905@dslextreme.com>
References: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<502D93F8.50905@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <CAFoGK8Gr4z-BHvRcmzbAoyoKjbs1pmOKqcRj9UX66PXW-UCMJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Bobbie Sellers
<bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com> wrote:
> On 08/16/2012 05:17 PM, Sameer Verma wrote:
>>
>> We have a SCSI drive that appears to be corrupt. The filesystem on
>> this drive is NTFS and was on a Windows box. We are trying to dump the
>> drive to an image to see if we can recover anything.
>>
>> I have a box that boots from a Ubuntu 11.10 CD. The box has the
>> corrupt SCSI drive and a blank SCSI drive. Both SCSI drives are seen
>> by the BIOS, and once Ubuntu boots up, lsscsi shows the drives as
>> well. Withun Ubuntu, the blank drive shows up as /dev/sdb1, but
>> /dev/sda isn't visible. In dmesg, it shows /dev/sda as being corrupt,
>> and that's it. I'd like to eventually use ddrescue to create a
>> bitcopy, but without any visibility in /dev I'm not sure what the next
>> step is.
>>
>> Ideas? Suggestions?
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>
>         Have you tried a live rescue CD distribution such as Knoppix?
>     Also have SystemRescueCD 2.7.0 on hand presently.  Be happy
> to let you use my copy in this matter.
>
>         Bobbie
>
>

Thanks, Bobbie. Will try SystemRescueCD.

cheers,
Sameer



From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 09:47:02 2012
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 09:47:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] ddrescue on a scsi drive
In-Reply-To: <CAFoGK8Gr4z-BHvRcmzbAoyoKjbs1pmOKqcRj9UX66PXW-UCMJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<502D93F8.50905@dslextreme.com>
	<CAFoGK8Gr4z-BHvRcmzbAoyoKjbs1pmOKqcRj9UX66PXW-UCMJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAMNwFGZ3S_yYVh1tOzNAB5EQSwN_ib_4quAg9RZX3cpZ1EChQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sameer,
Might be a hardware problem, see link for checking those sorts of items and
fix/repair suggestions.
A sharp rap with the eraser end of a pencil was enough to get a frozen disk
of mine spinning again --
to recover things before sending in on warranty.
http://www.wikihow.com/Recover-a-Dead-Hard-Disk
Ken
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From jim at systemateka.com  Fri Aug 17 10:55:23 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 10:55:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] what is kondemand and how to put it in a cage?
Message-ID: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


My machine has slowed waaaay down. 

$ top 
shows kondemand hopping in and out of about sixth 
place in the list, and in the form of 
kondemand/0 
kondemand/1 
(separate processes running often simultaneously). 

$ man kondemand 
 No manual entry for kondemand


http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/anyone-knows-what-is-kondemand-759463/ 
this forum's comments are largely the same as mine 
(wtf?), with suggestions to use a web search engine 
to get info and replies that the web search engine 
pretty much circularly refers to this topic. 
    The irritation is that kondemand seems to take 
20% CPU time. 

    One user claims he's shut down his laptop and 
removed the battery and then restored everything and 
rebooted with the result that kondemand then takes 
only 1% of CPU time. 

    Anybody know what is kondemand? 






From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 12:46:18 2012
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:46:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] what is kondemand and how to put it in a cage?
In-Reply-To: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAAMNwFHZDepjDMkzHFGcmL-F93EaXYWdpwdcdJyfcqJo1PnWSA@mail.gmail.com>

 Jim,
Check out the ondemand service (cpu freqeuency scaling)
Ken

BarackObama<http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?s=8b6af949fb0cda93962cb822bc3a6bb8&u=302182>
[image:
BarackObama is offline]
Web Hosting Master

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: whitehouse
 Posts: 559
    kondemand is a kernel thread that belongs to the ondemand governor of
cpufreq subsystem, which changes the p-states of the system, based on the
utilization statistics. Thus it?s something that helps in power management.




On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:55 AM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:

>
> My machine has slowed waaaay down.
>
> $ top
> shows kondemand hopping in and out of about sixth
> place in the list, and in the form of
> kondemand/0
> kondemand/1
> (separate processes running often simultaneously).
>
> $ man kondemand
>  No manual entry for kondemand
>
>
>
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/anyone-knows-what-is-kondemand-759463/
> this forum's comments are largely the same as mine
> (wtf?), with suggestions to use a web search engine
> to get info and replies that the web search engine
> pretty much circularly refers to this topic.
>     The irritation is that kondemand seems to take
> 20% CPU time.
>
>     One user claims he's shut down his laptop and
> removed the battery and then restored everything and
> rebooted with the result that kondemand then takes
> only 1% of CPU time.
>
>     Anybody know what is kondemand?
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Aug 17 12:51:55 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:51:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] what is kondemand and how to put it in a cage?
In-Reply-To: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <20120817195155.GG6238@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at systemateka.com):

>     Anybody know what is kondemand? 

Looks like a Linux kernel thread (which is why it shows in square
brackets in top or ps) that is the kernel interface for CPU frequency
scaling, and is part of the power-management subsystem.  (The 'k' is for
kernel, not KDE.)  It is classed as a 'governor' for frequency-scaling
purposes, and changes the CPUs' p-state (power-management state) and CPU
frequency depending on system demand.[1]  You will find that there is
one kondemand thread per CPU core. 

It's basically part of the kernel background services.  I wouldn't worry
about it -- unless you want to rev up CPU speed a bit for performance
purposes, in which case please see referenced kernel doc in my footnote.

> My machine has slowed waaaay down.

You might be able to tune power-management to give you less CPU
relaxation and more horsepower.

[1] See section 2.4 in
https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/cpu-freq/governors.txt .  
Where this document talks about a CPUfreq governor called 'ondemand',
that's the same thing as kondemand, as the k is a prefix convention
meaning kernel thread.




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Fri Aug 17 12:53:18 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 12:53:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] what is kondemand and how to put it in a cage?
In-Reply-To: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1345226123.1711.69.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <502EA12E.7000304@dslextreme.com>

On 08/17/2012 10:55 AM, jim wrote:
> My machine has slowed waaaay down.
>
> $ top
> shows kondemand hopping in and out of about sixth
> place in the list, and in the form of
> kondemand/0
> kondemand/1
> (separate processes running often simultaneously).
>
> $ man kondemand
>   No manual entry for kondemand
>
>
> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/anyone-knows-what-is-kondemand-759463/
> this forum's comments are largely the same as mine
> (wtf?), with suggestions to use a web search engine
> to get info and replies that the web search engine
> pretty much circularly refers to this topic.
>      The irritation is that kondemand seems to take
> 20% CPU time.
>
>      One user claims he's shut down his laptop and
> removed the battery and then restored everything and
> rebooted with the result that kondemand then takes
> only 1% of CPU time.
>
>      Anybody know what is kondemand?

         Not that I have a real notion but it seems to be related
to controlling CPU speed.

	Searching quickly found this which tells how to
use the command properly.

<http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Linux/Administration/A_3492-Avoiding-CPU-speed-scaling-in-modern-Linux-distributions-Running-CPU-at-full-speed-Tips.html>

     Hope it helps.

     Bobbie Sellers



From joebaker at dcresearch.com  Fri Aug 17 16:24:21 2012
From: joebaker at dcresearch.com (Joe Baker)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:24:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] ddrescue on a scsi drive
In-Reply-To: <CAAMNwFGZ3S_yYVh1tOzNAB5EQSwN_ib_4quAg9RZX3cpZ1EChQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoGK8GGgOxLb3_5sKdJvoBKPB=HxhWBprnboOHrB+0uMrmUCA@mail.gmail.com>
	<502D93F8.50905@dslextreme.com>
	<CAFoGK8Gr4z-BHvRcmzbAoyoKjbs1pmOKqcRj9UX66PXW-UCMJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAMNwFGZ3S_yYVh1tOzNAB5EQSwN_ib_4quAg9RZX3cpZ1EChQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <502ED2A5.7070108@dcresearch.com>

Putting the drive in a deep freezer sometimes will help a drive to be 
able to spin up.

I'm curious... are you able to hear if the drive spins up at all?

It's nice to hear about dd_rescue.  I used to use it for such tasks with 
great success.

Another thought is to spin the drive at great speeds along the axis of 
the spindle and then apply an instant braking system and hope that the 
spindle breaks free  an original idea here on the SF-LUG mailing list.

JB

On 08/17/2012 09:47 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote:
> Sameer,
> Might be a hardware problem, see link for checking those sorts of 
> items and fix/repair suggestions.
> A sharp rap with the eraser end of a pencil was enough to get a frozen 
> disk of mine spinning again --
> to recover things before sending in on warranty.
> http://www.wikihow.com/Recover-a-Dead-Hard-Disk
> Ken
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 17:16:32 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 17:16:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza,
	Networking and installing Linux at Creative Arts Charter School
Message-ID: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The school year is starting at the Creative Arts Charter School, a public
charter school in SF, and so we (Partimus volunteers) will be working there
tomorrow, Saturday, August 18, from 10:30 a.m. to 4:00 pm, at 1601 Turk
Street at Pierce Street to take the first steps toward assessing the
network with an eye toward installing wifi and Linux on the notebook
computers that arrived recently:

http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357

Our goal for tomorrow is to look at the network; assess it for wifi; assess
whether we can put a server in the telco closet for a variety of services;
and then potential mass installation of Linux onto the notebook computers.
If we are not able to mass install Linux on the notebooks, then we might
have to just take as shot at installing Linux individually on as many of
the computers as possible.  The kids start school on Monday, so we are
going to try to get as far as we can tomorrow.  If we only take a few baby
steps, that is fine.

Please bring with you copies of Ubuntu 12.04 on USB sticks and CDs, in case
we need to manually install it.  Please also bring cable testers, screw
drivers, pliers, and anything else that you would need to get into notebook
or desktop computers, triage them, and fix them.  If you have any spare
wifi routers to donate, that would also be a plus.

Our other goal is to have our special yummy pizza at 1:00 pm.

If you would like to help, please come to the corner of Turk and Pierce,
and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite large.  If I
don't respond right away, please understand that there might be other
people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I will get to
each of you as soon as I can.

Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.  Here
is a permalink for this post on our Partimus site:

http://blog.partimus.org/?p=368

Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
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From mmdmurphy at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 18:02:38 2012
From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Gmail)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:02:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza,
	Networking and installing Linux at Creative Arts Charter School
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A64FFBDB-B410-4654-AED7-EDD426FDCDE6@gmail.com>

Oh no!!  Here we go again!!  ?

Sent from Dan's iPad

On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The school year is starting at the Creative Arts Charter School, a public charter school in SF, and so we (Partimus volunteers) will be working there tomorrow, Saturday, August 18, from 10:30 a.m. to 4:00 pm, at 1601 Turk Street at Pierce Street to take the first steps toward assessing the network with an eye toward installing wifi and Linux on the notebook computers that arrived recently:  
> 
> http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357
> 
> Our goal for tomorrow is to look at the network; assess it for wifi; assess whether we can put a server in the telco closet for a variety of services; and then potential mass installation of Linux onto the notebook computers.  If we are not able to mass install Linux on the notebooks, then we might have to just take as shot at installing Linux individually on as many of the computers as possible.  The kids start school on Monday, so we are going to try to get as far as we can tomorrow.  If we only take a few baby steps, that is fine.
> 
> Please bring with you copies of Ubuntu 12.04 on USB sticks and CDs, in case we need to manually install it.  Please also bring cable testers, screw drivers, pliers, and anything else that you would need to get into notebook or desktop computers, triage them, and fix them.  If you have any spare wifi routers to donate, that would also be a plus.
> 
> Our other goal is to have our special yummy pizza at 1:00 pm.
> 
> If you would like to help, please come to the corner of Turk and Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that there might be other people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I will get to each of you as soon as I can.  
> 
> Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.  Here is a permalink for this post on our Partimus site:
> 
> http://blog.partimus.org/?p=368
> 
> Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From jim at systemateka.com  Fri Aug 17 18:07:28 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:07:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza,
 Networking and installing Linux at Creative Arts Charter School
In-Reply-To: <A64FFBDB-B410-4654-AED7-EDD426FDCDE6@gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<A64FFBDB-B410-4654-AED7-EDD426FDCDE6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1345252048.1711.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



    I like it. Christian and the Partimus group are helping 
schools and Linux and open source. It's a good thing and 
worthy of support regardless of their choices of terms. 




On Fri, 2012-08-17 at 18:02 -0700, Gmail wrote:
> Oh no!!  Here we go again!!  ?
> 
> Sent from Dan's iPad
> 
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > The school year is starting at the Creative Arts Charter School, a
> > public charter school in SF, and so we (Partimus volunteers) will be
> > working there tomorrow, Saturday, August 18, from 10:30 a.m. to 4:00
> > pm, at 1601 Turk Street at Pierce Street to take the first steps
> > toward assessing the network with an eye toward installing wifi and
> > Linux on the notebook computers that arrived recently:  
> > 
> > http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357
> > 
> > Our goal for tomorrow is to look at the network; assess it for wifi;
> > assess whether we can put a server in the telco closet for a variety
> > of services; and then potential mass installation of Linux onto the
> > notebook computers.  If we are not able to mass install Linux on the
> > notebooks, then we might have to just take as shot at installing
> > Linux individually on as many of the computers as possible.  The
> > kids start school on Monday, so we are going to try to get as far as
> > we can tomorrow.  If we only take a few baby steps, that is fine.
> > 
> > Please bring with you copies of Ubuntu 12.04 on USB sticks and CDs,
> > in case we need to manually install it.  Please also bring cable
> > testers, screw drivers, pliers, and anything else that you would
> > need to get into notebook or desktop computers, triage them, and fix
> > them.  If you have any spare wifi routers to donate, that would also
> > be a plus.
> > 
> > Our other goal is to have our special yummy pizza at 1:00 pm.
> > 
> > If you would like to help, please come to the corner of Turk and
> > Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is
> > quite large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that
> > there might be other people who are calling me or texting me at the
> > same time, and I will get to each of you as soon as I can.  
> > 
> > Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is
> > appreciated.  Here is a permalink for this post on our Partimus
> > site:
> > 
> > http://blog.partimus.org/?p=368
> > 
> > Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 18:27:55 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 18:27:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza,
 Networking and installing Linux at Creative Arts Charter School
In-Reply-To: <1345252048.1711.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<A64FFBDB-B410-4654-AED7-EDD426FDCDE6@gmail.com>
	<1345252048.1711.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4o3Fv_8qPz76MB6=Y4zQeDiG-TQW=SF54wdq2GmAtOZZg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Jim!

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:07 PM, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:

>
>
>     I like it. Christian and the Partimus group are helping
> schools and Linux and open source. It's a good thing and
> worthy of support regardless of their choices of terms.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2012-08-17 at 18:02 -0700, Gmail wrote:
> > Oh no!!  Here we go again!!  ?
> >
> > Sent from Dan's iPad
> >
> > On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:16 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The school year is starting at the Creative Arts Charter School, a
> > > public charter school in SF, and so we (Partimus volunteers) will be
> > > working there tomorrow, Saturday, August 18, from 10:30 a.m. to 4:00
> > > pm, at 1601 Turk Street at Pierce Street to take the first steps
> > > toward assessing the network with an eye toward installing wifi and
> > > Linux on the notebook computers that arrived recently:
> > >
> > > http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357
> > >
> > > Our goal for tomorrow is to look at the network; assess it for wifi;
> > > assess whether we can put a server in the telco closet for a variety
> > > of services; and then potential mass installation of Linux onto the
> > > notebook computers.  If we are not able to mass install Linux on the
> > > notebooks, then we might have to just take as shot at installing
> > > Linux individually on as many of the computers as possible.  The
> > > kids start school on Monday, so we are going to try to get as far as
> > > we can tomorrow.  If we only take a few baby steps, that is fine.
> > >
> > > Please bring with you copies of Ubuntu 12.04 on USB sticks and CDs,
> > > in case we need to manually install it.  Please also bring cable
> > > testers, screw drivers, pliers, and anything else that you would
> > > need to get into notebook or desktop computers, triage them, and fix
> > > them.  If you have any spare wifi routers to donate, that would also
> > > be a plus.
> > >
> > > Our other goal is to have our special yummy pizza at 1:00 pm.
> > >
> > > If you would like to help, please come to the corner of Turk and
> > > Pierce, and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is
> > > quite large.  If I don't respond right away, please understand that
> > > there might be other people who are calling me or texting me at the
> > > same time, and I will get to each of you as soon as I can.
> > >
> > > Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is
> > > appreciated.  Here is a permalink for this post on our Partimus
> > > site:
> > >
> > > http://blog.partimus.org/?p=368
> > >
> > > Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 08:55:11 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 08:55:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
Message-ID: <1345305311.57818.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I've got postfix installed on my DreamPlug and am trying to get it
configured to be able to send mail out to a "smart host." The smart host is
mailout.easydns.com.? Mail doesn't get out; the following is reported
in /var/log/mail.info:
"""
Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/pickup[25907]: 36C8229CE7: uid=0 from=<root>
Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/cleanup[26005]: 36C8229CE7:
message-id=<20120818153459.GA25992 at kleider.ca>
Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/qmgr[17065]: 36C8229CE7:
from=<root at kleider.ca>, size=416, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Aug 18 08:35:15 dp4 postfix/smtp[26008]: 36C8229CE7:
to=<akleider at sonic.net>, relay=none, delay=16, delays=0.1/0.03/16/0,
dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service
error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, try again)
"""

Investigation of name resolution gives what seem to be conflicting
results (ping and dig work but traceroute and mtr don't):

root at dp4:/var/log# ping mailout.easydns.com
PING mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=1 ttl=50
time=81.9 ms
64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=2 ttl=50
time=79.9 ms
64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=3 ttl=50
time=81.3 ms
^C64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=4 ttl=50
time=80.3 ms

--- mailout.easydns.com ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 13907ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 79.989/80.931/81.988/0.788 ms

root at dp4:/var/log# traceroute mailout.easydns.com
mailout.easydns.com: No address associated with hostname
Cannot handle "host" cmdline arg `mailout.easydns.com' on position 1 (argc
1)

root at dp4:/var/log# dig @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com

; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com
; (1 server found)
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 47312
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;mailout.easydns.com.?????????? IN????? A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
mailout.easydns.com.??? 191???? IN????? A?????? 64.68.200.141

;; Query time: 4016 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 08:27:38 2012
;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 53

root at dp4:/var/log# mtr mailout.easydns.com
No address associated with hostname: Success

Other commands that require resolver success (wget, w3m) work fine.

Any thoughts?

Alex
~?????????? 


a_kleider at yahoo.com
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From tom at greenleaftech.net  Sat Aug 18 09:10:43 2012
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:10:43 +0100
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1345305311.57818.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1345305311.57818.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <502FBE83.9060003@greenleaftech.net>

You're mixing things that you're checking here. The host DNS entry for
mailout.easydns.com may exist, but that doesn't mean there's an MX
record for it.

mthaddon at mallory:~$ dig mailout.easydns.com

; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> mailout.easydns.com
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 53568
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;mailout.easydns.com.        IN    A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
mailout.easydns.com.    300    IN    A    64.68.200.141

;; Query time: 12 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:09:43 2012
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 53

<http://www.rg-racing.com/browseBike/Aprilia/RSV4-R/2011/RAD0076.aspx>mthaddon at mallory:~$
dig -t mx mailout.easydns.com

; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> -t mx mailout.easydns.com
;; global options: +cmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 42943
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;mailout.easydns.com.        IN    MX

;; Query time: 13 msec
;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:04:57 2012
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 37

Looks like you need to double check that that's what you should be
trying to connect to.

Thanks, Tom

On 18/08/12 16:55, Alex Kleider wrote:
> I've got postfix installed on my DreamPlug and am trying to get it
> configured to be able to send mail out to a "smart host." The smart
> host is
> mailout.easydns.com.  Mail doesn't get out; the following is reported
> in /var/log/mail.info:
> """
> Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/pickup[25907]: 36C8229CE7: uid=0 from=<root>
> Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/cleanup[26005]: 36C8229CE7:
> message-id=<20120818153459.GA25992 at kleider.ca>
> Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/qmgr[17065]: 36C8229CE7:
> from=<root at kleider.ca>, size=416, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> Aug 18 08:35:15 dp4 postfix/smtp[26008]: 36C8229CE7:
> to=<akleider at sonic.net>, relay=none, delay=16, delays=0.1/0.03/16/0,
> dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service
> error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, try again)
> """
>
> Investigation of name resolution gives what seem to be conflicting
> results (ping and dig work but traceroute and mtr don't):
>
> root at dp4:/var/log# ping mailout.easydns.com
> PING mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=1 ttl=50
> time=81.9 ms
> 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=2 ttl=50
> time=79.9 ms
> 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=3 ttl=50
> time=81.3 ms
> ^C64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_req=4 ttl=50
> time=80.3 ms
>
> --- mailout.easydns.com ping statistics ---
> 4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 13907ms
> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 79.989/80.931/81.988/0.788 ms
>
> root at dp4:/var/log# traceroute mailout.easydns.com
> mailout.easydns.com: No address associated with hostname
> Cannot handle "host" cmdline arg `mailout.easydns.com' on position 1 (argc
> 1)
>
> root at dp4:/var/log# dig @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com
> ; (1 server found)
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 47312
> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;mailout.easydns.com.           IN      A
>
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> mailout.easydns.com.    191     IN      A       64.68.200.141
>
> ;; Query time: 4016 msec
> ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)
> ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 08:27:38 2012
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 53
>
> root at dp4:/var/log# mtr mailout.easydns.com
> No address associated with hostname: Success
>
> Other commands that require resolver success (wget, w3m) work fine.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Alex
> ~          
>
>
> a_kleider at yahoo.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

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From sundquistjames at gmail.com  Sat Aug 18 13:13:09 2012
From: sundquistjames at gmail.com (James Sundquist)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:13:09 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] Uefi laptops
Message-ID: <CAP6MHLq8uRwOVoWrxWH6cKUHNN46aKamdoc8mSkuA3V0EjBSKw@mail.gmail.com>

Is anyone using uefi on their laptops with a guid partition table or some
combination of gpt and mbr?  I'm curious to hear from those who only use
'legacy boot' and run more than one operating system.
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sat Aug 18 14:47:21 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 14:47:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Uefi laptops
In-Reply-To: <CAP6MHLq8uRwOVoWrxWH6cKUHNN46aKamdoc8mSkuA3V0EjBSKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP6MHLq8uRwOVoWrxWH6cKUHNN46aKamdoc8mSkuA3V0EjBSKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50300D69.90708@dslextreme.com>

On 08/18/2012 01:13 PM, James Sundquist wrote:
> laptops with a guid partition table

     Use that phrase searching from Google and you will
find a lot of entries.

     Bobbie Sellers



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sat Aug 18 15:03:40 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:03:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Pro magazine had a defective Knoppix 7!
Message-ID: <5030113C.1030801@dslextreme.com>

Hi LUGgers,
     That was issue 137
     Fortunately no one got a copy from me while I was
bringing it to the meetings  but buying the new copy
of Linux Pro issue 141 with Fedora 17, I found a whole lot of
references to the matter in Klaus Knopper?s column.
     I did a sha1sum on my copy which was defective too so I
downloaded both the DVD and CD isos for 7.0.3 and checked
them to be sure I had good copies.
     I will have all these available for inspection or use at the
meeting on Monday night.  Or if you want a copy I will have
a few.

     The defects in the magazine supplied copy may be why I had
to use more than Knoppix to fix my problems with my over-partitioned
hard drive a month or so back.

     Bobbie Sellers



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sat Aug 18 18:50:40 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:50:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <502FBE83.9060003@greenleaftech.net>
Message-ID: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I'm not sure I completely understand but it appears that dig can be told to look for a specific service and your failure of dig -t mx indicates that mailout.easydns.com doesn't have the needed service. 
As it turns out, use of mailout.easydns.com works on another plug computer that I run on another network and the dig -t mx fails there as well.
The mystery remains unsolved. 
Here's the evidence:
alex at www:~$ dig -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short
alex at www:~$ dig? mailout.easydns.com +short
64.68.200.141
alex at www:~$ dig -p 2025 -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short

; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> -p 2025 -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short
;; global options: +cmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
alex at www:~$ dig mailout.easydns.com +short
64.68.200.141
alex at www:~$ dig -p2025 mailout.easydns.com +short
; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> -p2025 mailout.easydns.com +short

;; global options: +cmd

;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached


I haven't mentioned that mailout.easydns.com listens on an unconventional port and I thought that might be an explanation for the dig -t mx failure but it seems not.
I have postfix running on both machines with the same /etc/postfix/main.cf file (except for the "mydestination=" line)


alex

--- On Sat, 8/18/12, Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net> wrote:

From: Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] resolver problem
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Saturday, August 18, 2012, 9:10 AM


  

    
  
  
    You're mixing things that you're
      checking here. The host DNS entry for mailout.easydns.com may
      exist, but that doesn't mean there's an MX record for it.

      

      mthaddon at mallory:~$ dig mailout.easydns.com

      

      ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>>
      mailout.easydns.com

      ;; global options: +cmd

      ;; Got answer:

      ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id:
      53568

      ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
      0

      

      ;; QUESTION SECTION:

      ;mailout.easydns.com.??? ??? IN??? A

      

      ;; ANSWER SECTION:

      mailout.easydns.com.??? 300??? IN??? A??? 64.68.200.141

      

      ;; Query time: 12 msec

      ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

      ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:09:43 2012

      ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 53

      

      
      mthaddon at mallory:~$
      dig -t mx mailout.easydns.com

      

      ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> -t mx
      mailout.easydns.com

      ;; global options: +cmd

      ;; Got answer:

      ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id:
      42943

      ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
      0

      

      ;; QUESTION SECTION:

      ;mailout.easydns.com.??? ??? IN??? MX

      

      ;; Query time: 13 msec

      ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

      ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:04:57 2012

      ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 37

      

      Looks like you need to double check that that's what you should be
      trying to connect to.

      

      Thanks, Tom

      

      On 18/08/12 16:55, Alex Kleider wrote:

    
    
      
        
          
            I've got postfix
              installed on my DreamPlug and am trying to get it

              configured to be able to send mail out to a "smart host."
              The smart host is

              mailout.easydns.com.? Mail doesn't get out; the following
              is reported

              in /var/log/mail.info:

              """

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/pickup[25907]: 36C8229CE7:
              uid=0 from=<root>

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/cleanup[26005]: 36C8229CE7:

              message-id=<20120818153459.GA25992 at kleider.ca>

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/qmgr[17065]: 36C8229CE7:

              from=<root at kleider.ca>, size=416, nrcpt=1 (queue
              active)

              Aug 18 08:35:15 dp4 postfix/smtp[26008]: 36C8229CE7:

              to=<akleider at sonic.net>, relay=none, delay=16,
              delays=0.1/0.03/16/0,

              dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found.
              Name service

              error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not
              found, try again)

              """

              

              Investigation of name resolution gives what seem to be
              conflicting

              results (ping and dig work but traceroute and mtr don't):

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# ping mailout.easydns.com

              PING mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141) 56(84) bytes of
              data.

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=1 ttl=50

              time=81.9 ms

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=2 ttl=50

              time=79.9 ms

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=3 ttl=50

              time=81.3 ms

              ^C64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=4 ttl=50

              time=80.3 ms

              

              --- mailout.easydns.com ping statistics ---

              4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time
              13907ms

              rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 79.989/80.931/81.988/0.788 ms

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# traceroute mailout.easydns.com

              mailout.easydns.com: No address associated with hostname

              Cannot handle "host" cmdline arg `mailout.easydns.com' on
              position 1 (argc

              1)

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# dig @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com

              

              ; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @127.0.0.1
              mailout.easydns.com

              ; (1 server found)

              ;; global options: +cmd

              ;; Got answer:

              ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
              NOERROR, id: 47312

              ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0,
              ADDITIONAL: 0

              

              ;; QUESTION SECTION:

              ;mailout.easydns.com.?????????? IN????? A

              

              ;; ANSWER SECTION:

              mailout.easydns.com.??? 191???? IN????? A??????
              64.68.200.141

              

              ;; Query time: 4016 msec

              ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

              ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 08:27:38 2012

              ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 53

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# mtr mailout.easydns.com

              No address associated with hostname: Success

              

              Other commands that require resolver success (wget, w3m)
              work fine.

              

              Any thoughts?

              

              Alex

              ~?????????? 

              

              

              a_kleider at yahoo.com
          
        
      
      

      
      

      _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
    
    

  


-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Aug 18 19:52:33 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 19:52:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza,
	Networking and installing Linux at Creative Arts Charter School
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4rgbe4dOBYE1AiJXy4jbtO9GWz4fg0SaKFx3T-oK-aYXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4qkoM96N6M8Boy2eBPFfcn6A4xGvMT0WwQVXFjr6a-Lrg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

We had a really productive day today.  Many thanks to James Ouyang
@jyouyang and Maestrol for helping out.  Our Partimus blog post about it is
here.

http://blog.partimus.org/?p=371

The teachers and kids will really appreciate it!

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The school year is starting at the Creative Arts Charter School, a public
> charter school in SF, and so we (Partimus volunteers) will be working there
> tomorrow, Saturday, August 18, from 10:30 a.m. to 4:00 pm, at 1601 Turk
> Street at Pierce Street to take the first steps toward assessing the
> network with an eye toward installing wifi and Linux on the notebook
> computers that arrived recently:
>
> http://blog.partimus.org/?p=357
>
> Our goal for tomorrow is to look at the network; assess it for wifi;
> assess whether we can put a server in the telco closet for a variety of
> services; and then potential mass installation of Linux onto the notebook
> computers.  If we are not able to mass install Linux on the notebooks, then
> we might have to just take as shot at installing Linux individually on as
> many of the computers as possible.  The kids start school on Monday, so we
> are going to try to get as far as we can tomorrow.  If we only take a few
> baby steps, that is fine.
>
> Please bring with you copies of Ubuntu 12.04 on USB sticks and CDs, in
> case we need to manually install it.  Please also bring cable testers,
> screw drivers, pliers, and anything else that you would need to get into
> notebook or desktop computers, triage them, and fix them.  If you have any
> spare wifi routers to donate, that would also be a plus.
>
> Our other goal is to have our special yummy pizza at 1:00 pm.
>
> If you would like to help, please come to the corner of Turk and Pierce,
> and call me or text me at 415-351-1300 as the school is quite large.  If
> I don't respond right away, please understand that there might be other
> people who are calling me or texting me at the same time, and I will get to
> each of you as soon as I can.
>
> Any re-tweets, re-dents, and re-posting of this email is appreciated.
> Here is a permalink for this post on our Partimus site:
>
> http://blog.partimus.org/?p=368
>
> Thanks, Christian Einfeldt for Partimus.org.
>
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From sundquistjames at gmail.com  Sun Aug 19 13:09:28 2012
From: sundquistjames at gmail.com (James Sundquist)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:09:28 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] uefi, gpt
Message-ID: <CAP6MHLogQwsds-44zKp+O87J6=U1GhXgH6wtf2Ds3OAPEEaYYw@mail.gmail.com>

> On 08/18/2012 01:13 PM, James Sundquist wrote:
> > laptops with a guid partition table
>
>      Use that phrase searching from Google and you will
> find a lot of entries.
>
>      Bobbie Sellers
>

I'm definitely hoping to get some insight from someone on the list who uses
GUID.  I'm currently running a GUID partition scheme and have googled it
extensively; Loving how it can handle partition tables beyond the limits of
MBR.  If I wasn't clear, I'm interested in hearing from others on the list
who are using a GUID partition scheme or a combination of MBR, GPT, and
Grub2 or Syslinux.

I've had no problem running MBR with multiple operating systems in the
past, but that is no longer my setup.
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Aug 19 16:04:25 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 16:04:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] uefi, gpt
In-Reply-To: <CAP6MHLogQwsds-44zKp+O87J6=U1GhXgH6wtf2Ds3OAPEEaYYw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP6MHLogQwsds-44zKp+O87J6=U1GhXgH6wtf2Ds3OAPEEaYYw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <503170F9.8080103@dslextreme.com>

On 08/19/2012 01:09 PM, James Sundquist wrote:
>
>     On 08/18/2012 01:13 PM, James Sundquist wrote:
>     > laptops with a guid partition table
>
>          Use that phrase searching from Google and you will
>     find a lot of entries.
>
>          Bobbie Sellers
>
>
> I'm definitely hoping to get some insight from someone on the list who 
> uses GUID.  I'm currently running a GUID partition scheme and have 
> googled it extensively; Loving how it can handle partition tables 
> beyond the limits of MBR.  If I wasn't clear, I'm interested in 
> hearing from others on the list who are using a GUID partition scheme 
> or a combination of MBR, GPT, and Grub2 or Syslinux.
>
> I've had no problem running MBR with multiple operating systems in the 
> past, but that is no longer my setup.

     Checked some of the results  from that search that might fall 
within your
parameters.   GUID does not permit logical partitions since MS decided that
128 partitions should be enough apparently from some of what I read.

     Bobbie Sellers

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From mhigashi at gmail.com  Sun Aug 19 18:27:33 2012
From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2012 18:27:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <502FBE83.9060003@greenleaftech.net>
	<1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CADsu0t8om-EdZ+7a2A8Owjo0k4S6OJcn=aYcikqdODxOU4KJzA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Aug 18, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure I completely understand but it appears that dig can be told to look for a specific service and your failure of dig -t mx indicates that mailout.easydns.com doesn't have the needed service.
> As it turns out, use of mailout.easydns.com works on another plug computer that I run on another network and the dig -t mx fails there as well.
> The mystery remains unsolved.


According to:  http://helpwiki.easydns.com/index.php/Mail_Settings

   DNS Pro and Enterprise clients can use the same server if they prefer
   not to enable easyMAIL, and can also relay their outbound mail using

      mailout.easydns.com


   easyMAIL users should use the following settings:

      inbound mail (MX record) : mx.easymail.ca *
      outbound SMTP :  mailout.easymail.ca
      POP mail server :   pop.easymail.ca
      IMAP mail server :  imap.easymail.ca (ports 143 & 993)
      Webmail access :    webmail.easymail.ca


[I'm not sure why it says .com for the first item and .ca for the next
-- perhaps that's a mistake.]


Mike



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Aug 20 12:48:59 2012
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 12:48:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2012-08-21 BALUG meeting
Message-ID: <20120820124859.28256izd8c70cv8k@webmail.rawbw.com>

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting
TOMORROW Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2012-08-21

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2012-08-21 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a
specific speaker/presentation lined up for this meeting, but that
doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings.
Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to
announce or fully publicize the speaker (that's happened at least twice
in the past five or so years).  Got questions, answers, and/or
opinions?  We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s)
present to cover LINUX and related topic areas.  Want to hear some
interesting discussions on LINUX and other topics?  Show up at the
meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda if you wish.  Want to help
ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings?
Help refer speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker
coordinators.  Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to
be had.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                        6:30pm
                        Tuesday, August 21st, 2012 2012-08-21

                        Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                        731 Grant Ave.
                        San Francisco, CA 94108
                        Easy PARKING:
                          Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
                          http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
              cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
              family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
              also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping
              to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner).

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

CDs, and other "door prizes", etc.

Goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following):

We've got some hardware goodies to give away, in addition to available
CDs noted below.

CDs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have
"door prizes".

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG

Want to volunteer to help out BALUG?  (quite a variety of opportunities)
Drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting.

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Aug 21 14:20:20 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2012 14:20:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1345584020.3315.YahooMailRC@web181401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Mon Aug 27 10:51:07 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Daniel G was kind enough to spend a lot of time with me at last Monday's LUG meeting trouble shooting this problem. ?In the end he concluded that for reasons never made clear, resolver requests were being sent out using TCP instead of UDP and some servers honored that and some stuck to the rules and did not. ?Changing /etc/resolv.conf to point to a server that did seemed to solve the problem (or should I say, 'circumvent' the problem, if that is indeed what it was. I can no longer reproduce the problem so can not investigate further.)
Nothing wrong with mail.easydns.com. ?Everything works fine at present. ?
If anyone is looking for a dns provider, I have been very well treated by easydns.com. ?A fellow called Leandro and I had a long exchange before things were sorted out- clearly above and beyond the call of duty.
Tom: It's good to hear from you and know that you are still lurking:-) ?I assume you are still in London? ak

a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Sat, 8/18/12, Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] resolver problem
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, "Tom Haddon" <tom at greenleaftech.net>
Date: Saturday, August 18, 2012, 6:50 PM

I'm not sure I completely understand but it appears that dig can be told to look for a specific service and your failure of dig -t mx indicates that mailout.easydns.com doesn't have the needed service. 
As it turns out, use of mailout.easydns.com works on another plug computer that I run on another network and the dig -t mx fails there as well.
The mystery remains unsolved. 
Here's the evidence:
alex at www:~$ dig -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short
alex at www:~$ dig? mailout.easydns.com +short
64.68.200.141
alex at www:~$ dig -p 2025 -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short

; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> -p 2025 -t mx mailout.easydns.com +short
;; global options: +cmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
alex at www:~$ dig mailout.easydns.com +short
64.68.200.141
alex at www:~$ dig -p2025
 mailout.easydns.com +short
; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> -p2025 mailout.easydns.com +short

;; global options: +cmd

;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached


I haven't mentioned that mailout.easydns.com listens on an unconventional port and I thought that might be an explanation for the dig -t mx failure but it seems not.
I have postfix running on both machines with the same /etc/postfix/main.cf file (except for the "mydestination=" line)


alex

--- On Sat, 8/18/12, Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net> wrote:

From: Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] resolver problem
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Saturday, August 18, 2012, 9:10 AM


  

    
  
  
    You're mixing things that you're
      checking here. The host DNS entry for mailout.easydns.com may
      exist, but that doesn't mean there's an MX record for it.

      

      mthaddon at mallory:~$ dig mailout.easydns.com

      

      ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>>
      mailout.easydns.com

      ;; global options: +cmd

      ;; Got answer:

      ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id:
      53568

      ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
      0

      

      ;; QUESTION SECTION:

      ;mailout.easydns.com.??? ??? IN??? A

      

      ;; ANSWER SECTION:

      mailout.easydns.com.??? 300??? IN??? A??? 64.68.200.141

      

      ;; Query time: 12 msec

      ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

      ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:09:43 2012

      ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 53

      

      
      mthaddon at mallory:~$
      dig -t mx mailout.easydns.com

      

      ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> -t mx
      mailout.easydns.com

      ;; global options: +cmd

      ;; Got answer:

      ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id:
      42943

      ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL:
      0

      

      ;; QUESTION SECTION:

      ;mailout.easydns.com.??? ??? IN??? MX

      

      ;; Query time: 13 msec

      ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

      ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 17:04:57 2012

      ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 37

      

      Looks like you need to double check that that's what you should be
      trying to connect to.

      

      Thanks, Tom

      

      On 18/08/12 16:55, Alex Kleider wrote:

    
    
      
        
          
            I've got postfix
              installed on my DreamPlug and am trying to get it

              configured to be able to send mail out to a "smart host."
              The smart host is

              mailout.easydns.com.? Mail doesn't get out; the following
              is reported

              in /var/log/mail.info:

              """

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/pickup[25907]: 36C8229CE7:
              uid=0 from=<root>

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/cleanup[26005]: 36C8229CE7:

              message-id=<20120818153459.GA25992 at kleider.ca>

              Aug 18 08:34:59 dp4 postfix/qmgr[17065]: 36C8229CE7:

              from=<root at kleider.ca>, size=416, nrcpt=1 (queue
              active)

              Aug 18 08:35:15 dp4 postfix/smtp[26008]: 36C8229CE7:

              to=<akleider at sonic.net>, relay=none, delay=16,
              delays=0.1/0.03/16/0,

              dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found.
              Name service

              error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not
              found, try again)

              """

              

              Investigation of name resolution gives what seem to be
              conflicting

              results (ping and dig work but traceroute and mtr don't):

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# ping mailout.easydns.com

              PING mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141) 56(84) bytes of
              data.

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=1 ttl=50

              time=81.9 ms

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=2 ttl=50

              time=79.9 ms

              64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=3 ttl=50

              time=81.3 ms

              ^C64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141):
              icmp_req=4 ttl=50

              time=80.3 ms

              

              --- mailout.easydns.com ping statistics ---

              4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time
              13907ms

              rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 79.989/80.931/81.988/0.788 ms

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# traceroute mailout.easydns.com

              mailout.easydns.com: No address associated with hostname

              Cannot handle "host" cmdline arg `mailout.easydns.com' on
              position 1 (argc

              1)

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# dig @127.0.0.1 mailout.easydns.com

              

              ; <<>> DiG 9.7.3 <<>> @127.0.0.1
              mailout.easydns.com

              ; (1 server found)

              ;; global options: +cmd

              ;; Got answer:

              ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
              NOERROR, id: 47312

              ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 0,
              ADDITIONAL: 0

              

              ;; QUESTION SECTION:

              ;mailout.easydns.com.?????????? IN????? A

              

              ;; ANSWER SECTION:

              mailout.easydns.com.??? 191???? IN????? A??????
              64.68.200.141

              

              ;; Query time: 4016 msec

              ;; SERVER: 127.0.0.1#53(127.0.0.1)

              ;; WHEN: Sat Aug 18 08:27:38 2012

              ;; MSG SIZE? rcvd: 53

              

              root at dp4:/var/log# mtr mailout.easydns.com

              No address associated with hostname: Success

              

              Other commands that require resolver success (wget, w3m)
              work fine.

              

              Any thoughts?

              

              Alex

              ~?????????? 

              

              

              a_kleider at yahoo.com
          
        
      
      

      
      

      _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
    
    

  


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sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Aug 27 11:06:29 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:06:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):

> Daniel G was kind enough to spend a lot of time with me at last
> Monday's LUG meeting trouble shooting this problem. ?In the end he
> concluded that for reasons never made clear, resolver requests were
> being sent out using TCP instead of UDP and some servers honored that
> and some stuck to the rules and did not. ?Changing /etc/resolv.conf
> to point to a server that did seemed to solve the problem (or should I
> say, 'circumvent' the problem, if that is indeed what it was. I can no
> longer reproduce the problem so can not investigate further.)

Yes, but why outsource DNS at all, in the first place?

You can run a full-service recursive nameserver of your own on just
about anything, it completely avoids problems such as the one you 
cite above, it doesnt't take much in the way of machine resources, and 
it pretty much runs itself.  (There's nothing really requiring
administration.)

I can understand people wanting to outsource their authoritative DNS on
grounds of administrative headache (though I do not concur), but
outsourcing recursive DNS seems a bit silly.

(Software?  Your choice of Unbound, PowerDNS Recursor, BIND9, Deadwood,
dnscache.)




From jim at systemateka.com  Mon Aug 27 12:47:34 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:47:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1346096854.1706.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



    (Maybe things have changed since last I looked.) 
    I've spent time, occasionally, looking through pages 
of search engine results and other sources trying to 
learn how to set up a DNS server. There's lots of info, 
but what I've seen does not give me what I need to do 
the job. There are lots of concepts, but they don't 
relate to creating the proper files. There are tutorials, 
but they are specific to particular problems that are 
not a simple, general purpose DNS resolving system. 
    What I'd like to know is what software to get and 
what configuration files to create on the server side 
so that a client request to resolve a domain name gets 
access to the requested server. If necessary, what 
client-side configuration files to create to access my 
home-brewed DNS server. 
    I believe it's easy to do if one knows what to do. 





On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 11:06 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):
> 
> > Daniel G was kind enough to spend a lot of time with me at last
> > Monday's LUG meeting trouble shooting this problem.  In the end he
> > concluded that for reasons never made clear, resolver requests were
> > being sent out using TCP instead of UDP and some servers honored that
> > and some stuck to the rules and did not.  Changing /etc/resolv.conf
> > to point to a server that did seemed to solve the problem (or should I
> > say, 'circumvent' the problem, if that is indeed what it was. I can no
> > longer reproduce the problem so can not investigate further.)
> 
> Yes, but why outsource DNS at all, in the first place?
> 
> You can run a full-service recursive nameserver of your own on just
> about anything, it completely avoids problems such as the one you 
> cite above, it doesnt't take much in the way of machine resources, and 
> it pretty much runs itself.  (There's nothing really requiring
> administration.)
> 
> I can understand people wanting to outsource their authoritative DNS on
> grounds of administrative headache (though I do not concur), but
> outsourcing recursive DNS seems a bit silly.
> 
> (Software?  Your choice of Unbound, PowerDNS Recursor, BIND9, Deadwood,
> dnscache.)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Aug 27 13:10:35 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:10:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1346096854.1706.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>
	<1346096854.1706.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <20120827201035.GG14005@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at systemateka.com):

> I've spent time, occasionally, looking through pages of search engine
> results and other sources trying to learn how to set up a DNS server.
> There's lots of info, but what I've seen does not give me what I need
> to do the job.

That would be for _authoritative_ nameservice[1].  For _recursive_
nameservice, you do exactly this:

1.  Install nameserver package.
2.  Start the daemon.
3.  Tell clients to consult it (line in /etc/resolv.conf, 
most often sent to the client by your DHCP setup).

> What I'd like to know is what software to get and 
> what configuration files to create on the server side 
> so that a client request to resolve a domain name gets 
> access to the requested server.

For a recursive nameserver, none required.  It just works.
You turn it on; it goes.  There's nothing that needs adjusting or
administration.

> If necessary, what 
> client-side configuration files to create to access my 
> home-brewed DNS server. 

1.  Line like this in /etc/resolv.conf:

nameserver 127.0.0.1

(Substitute appropriate IP if it's not running on localhost.)

2.  Make sure the 'hosts' line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
includes keyworkd 'dns'.  It almost certainly already does, e.g.:

hosts:          files dns



[1] Which you do if you're publishing zone data for a domain you or
someone you're trying to help owns, e.g., my publishing zone data
for 'linuxmafia.com', 'unixmercenary.net', and a bunch of friends'
domains for which my nameserver is authoritative.

Types of nameservice explained:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lan.html




From jim at systemateka.com  Mon Aug 27 13:26:23 2012
From: jim at systemateka.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2012 13:26:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <20120827201035.GG14005@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1345341040.9495.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<1346089867.23784.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
	<20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>
	<1346096854.1706.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
	<20120827201035.GG14005@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1346099183.1706.128.camel@jim-LAPTOP>


Thank you! 



On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 13:10 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at systemateka.com):
> 
> > I've spent time, occasionally, looking through pages of search engine
> > results and other sources trying to learn how to set up a DNS server.
> > There's lots of info, but what I've seen does not give me what I need
> > to do the job.
> 
> That would be for _authoritative_ nameservice[1].  For _recursive_
> nameservice, you do exactly this:
> 
> 1.  Install nameserver package.
> 2.  Start the daemon.
> 3.  Tell clients to consult it (line in /etc/resolv.conf, 
> most often sent to the client by your DHCP setup).
> 
> > What I'd like to know is what software to get and 
> > what configuration files to create on the server side 
> > so that a client request to resolve a domain name gets 
> > access to the requested server.
> 
> For a recursive nameserver, none required.  It just works.
> You turn it on; it goes.  There's nothing that needs adjusting or
> administration.
> 
> > If necessary, what 
> > client-side configuration files to create to access my 
> > home-brewed DNS server. 
> 
> 1.  Line like this in /etc/resolv.conf:
> 
> nameserver 127.0.0.1
> 
> (Substitute appropriate IP if it's not running on localhost.)
> 
> 2.  Make sure the 'hosts' line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
> includes keyworkd 'dns'.  It almost certainly already does, e.g.:
> 
> hosts:          files dns
> 
> 
> 
> [1] Which you do if you're publishing zone data for a domain you or
> someone you're trying to help owns, e.g., my publishing zone data
> for 'linuxmafia.com', 'unixmercenary.net', and a bunch of friends'
> domains for which my nameserver is authoritative.
> 
> Types of nameservice explained:
> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lan.html
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/





From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Tue Aug 28 07:55:23 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 07:55:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Lug meeting Sunday September 2, 2012
Message-ID: <503CDBDB.3040302@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG meets every first Sunday from 11 A.M. to 1 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     later
     Bobbie Sellers




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Aug 28 15:20:14 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:20:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1346192414.98872.YahooMailRC@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 20:35:56 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 20:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <20120827180629.GJ6238@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1346211356.68109.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Rick,
You taught me (through this mailing list) about powerDNS Recursor and later unbound (when I needed to run it on ARM) several years ago and I often think back with gratitude to those exchanges.
This problem came up during set up and bothered me not so much because I couldn't get around it but because I couldn't understand it.
I do indeed now have unbound running and all seems to be working well.
Again, thanks for your contributions.
alex

a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Mon, 8/27/12, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] resolver problem
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 11:06 AM

Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):

> Daniel G was kind enough to spend a lot of time with me at last
> Monday's LUG meeting trouble shooting this problem. ?In the end he
> concluded that for reasons never made clear, resolver requests were
> being sent out using TCP instead of UDP and some servers honored that
> and some stuck to the rules and did not. ?Changing /etc/resolv.conf
> to point to a server that did seemed to solve the problem (or should I
> say, 'circumvent' the problem, if that is indeed what it was. I can no
> longer reproduce the problem so can not investigate further.)

Yes, but why outsource DNS at all, in the first place?

You can run a full-service recursive nameserver of your own on just
about anything, it completely avoids problems such as the one you 
cite above, it doesnt't take much in the way of machine resources, and 
it pretty much runs itself.? (There's nothing really requiring
administration.)

I can understand people wanting to outsource their authoritative DNS on
grounds of administrative headache (though I do not concur), but
outsourcing recursive DNS seems a bit silly.

(Software?? Your choice of Unbound, PowerDNS Recursor, BIND9, Deadwood,
dnscache.)


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Tue Aug 28 20:39:48 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 20:39:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] resolver problem
In-Reply-To: <1346096854.1706.99.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <1346211588.1395.YahooMailClassic@web122302.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Sounds like a good topic for a Linux meeting: tomorrow at NoiseBridge perhaps &/or at the next SF-LUG ?
I'd be happy to share with you my experiences.? I have kept notes- including distillations of what Rick posted when this came up a few years ago.


a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Mon, 8/27/12, jim <jim at systemateka.com> wrote:

From: jim <jim at systemateka.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] resolver problem
To: "Rick Moen" <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Monday, August 27, 2012, 12:47 PM



? ? (Maybe things have changed since last I looked.) 
? ? I've spent time, occasionally, looking through pages 
of search engine results and other sources trying to 
learn how to set up a DNS server. There's lots of info, 
but what I've seen does not give me what I need to do 
the job. There are lots of concepts, but they don't 
relate to creating the proper files. There are tutorials, 
but they are specific to particular problems that are 
not a simple, general purpose DNS resolving system. 
? ? What I'd like to know is what software to get and 
what configuration files to create on the server side 
so that a client request to resolve a domain name gets 
access to the requested server. If necessary, what 
client-side configuration files to create to access my 
home-brewed DNS server. 
? ? I believe it's easy to do if one knows what to do. 





On Mon, 2012-08-27 at 11:06 -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):
> 
> > Daniel G was kind enough to spend a lot of time with me at last
> > Monday's LUG meeting trouble shooting this problem.? In the end he
> > concluded that for reasons never made clear, resolver requests were
> > being sent out using TCP instead of UDP and some servers honored that
> > and some stuck to the rules and did not.? Changing /etc/resolv.conf
> > to point to a server that did seemed to solve the problem (or should I
> > say, 'circumvent' the problem, if that is indeed what it was. I can no
> > longer reproduce the problem so can not investigate further.)
> 
> Yes, but why outsource DNS at all, in the first place?
> 
> You can run a full-service recursive nameserver of your own on just
> about anything, it completely avoids problems such as the one you 
> cite above, it doesnt't take much in the way of machine resources, and 
> it pretty much runs itself.? (There's nothing really requiring
> administration.)
> 
> I can understand people wanting to outsource their authoritative DNS on
> grounds of administrative headache (though I do not concur), but
> outsourcing recursive DNS seems a bit silly.
> 
> (Software?? Your choice of Unbound, PowerDNS Recursor, BIND9, Deadwood,
> dnscache.)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Wed Aug 29 14:47:52 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 14:47:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Java Exploit code found
Message-ID: <503E8E08.5030700@dslextreme.com>

Hi LUGgers ,
     A Norwegian SysAdm noted this on another mailing
list.  I have seen nothing about it here as far as I can remember
  so am passing it on.

An analysis of exploit code found shortly after the first Java flaw was
discovered Sunday revealed the second vulnerability. The code has been
tied to attackers in China.

"The beauty of this bug class is that it provides 100% reliability and
is multiplatform," Esteban Guillardoy, a developer at Immunity, said
Tuesday in announcing the discovery of the second bug. "Hence this will
shortly become the penetration test Swiss knife for the next couple of
years."

Users of Java, which is installed in billions of devices worldwide, are
notorious for not staying up to date with patches. Rapid7 estimates that
65% of the installations today are unpatched. However, this time around,
people with the latest version of Java were the ones most open to attack.

The bugs are in Java 7 and affect Windows, Mac OS X and Linux operating
systems running a Web browser with a Java plugin enabled. The flaws were
introduced with the release the platform in July 28, 2011, Guillardoy
said in his analysis.

Java steward Oracle has not released a fix for either vulnerability.

Researchers are advising computer owners to disable Java in all
browsers. "That would be the only solution, right now," said Tod
Beardsley, a bug testing engineering manager for Rapid7.

<http://www.csoonline.com/article/714998/second-java-zero-day-found-time-to-disable-it-say-experts>

     bliss




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Aug 29 16:16:47 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 16:16:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Java Exploit code found
In-Reply-To: <503E8E08.5030700@dslextreme.com>
References: <503E8E08.5030700@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <20120829231647.GI6238@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com):

> Researchers are advising computer owners to disable Java in all
> browsers.  "That would be the only solution, right now," said Tod
> Beardsley, a bug testing engineering manager for Rapid7.


Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 10:23:52 -0700
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
To: conspire at linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [conspire] Write Once, Exploit Everywhere
Organization: If you lived here, you'd be $HOME already.
X-Mas: Bah humbug.

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Security companies are recommending you uninstall Java:
> 
> http://thenextweb.com/apps/2012/08/28/security-companies-you-disable-java-just
-uninstall/

Oracle/Sun Java has been alarmingly buggy in the last few years, and
it's not getting better.  

On open source platforms, we have the OpenJDK fork, which has not had
the same severity of security meltdown -- but I would not assume OpenJDK
safe.  In either case, it more than suffices to use NoScript to control
when if at all you run Java applets off the Internet.

Reading the security advisories about the new exploit, one sees the same
willful blindness always present in writings from the antimalware
industry:  Authors simply assume that suspect code from public networks
will get executed.  Users are implicitly assumed to take no measures
whatsoever to decide for themselves what public code to run.

Sophos comes closest to conceding that the user might have a brain:
'Disable the Java plugin in your favourite web browser.  [...]  Another
solution is to surf the net using your favourite browser with Java
disabled, and have an alternate browser available for the occasional
site that needs it'
(http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/08/28/unpatched-java-exploit-spreads-like-
wildfire/)

F-Secure has a similar statement.  Um, guys?  If you use NoScript, 
you don't have that problem.

FWIW, the current exploit is focussed solely on Win32 boxes
because its payload is delivered as a Microsoft exe file.
http://blog.fireeye.com/research/2012/08/zero-day-season-is-not-over-yet.html




From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Sun Sep  2 14:27:58 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 14:27:58 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Higher definition displays on the way... & SF LUG meeting
Message-ID: <5043CF5E.1030502@dslextreme.com>

  Hi LUGgers,

     Remember 320 x 240?  It was wonderful was it not when we were younger.
     Scan doubling without adapters up to 720 and careful choice of colors.

    Laptop:This 13-inch Samsung Series 9 WQHD Ultrabook beams Windows 8 
on 2,560 x 1,440 display (oh yes), making a visible leap beyond the 
existing Series 9 13-incher, which sticks to a more typical 1,600 x 900
<http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/31/samsung-Series%209-WQHD-Ultrabook-matte-display/>

Tablet not so dense: Asus 10.1 inch 1920 x1200
<http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Asus-Transformer-Pad-Infinity-TF700T_id7359/fullspecs>

Some users have complained about the density and size of the Retina display.

     Gotta read ?em all.

	==========New Topic===========

12:00 Noon
     Here at Cafe Enchante with the Schaffers.

	Ken brought his Chumby and we got the DNS problem
we usually experience here under control. After that was
fixed I was able to find the usual sites and chased down
the copy of Yawara episode 100 that I had not been able
to reach earlier from home,  Nearly 500 people were on
the torrent when I got it,

	One new member showed up and he was propagandized
but decided to go on to his LD Weekend activities since
we had such a low turnout?

	1230 we declared the nominal time fulfilled and
packed up and left the area.

	Enjoy the Holiday as much as you can.

	Bobbie Sellers



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Sep  3 18:40:34 2012
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:40:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2012
Message-ID: <CAFoGK8Fde115_38_yDMnSphJjxEG3z_bMNA6Fkz1CQLSpnHO=g@mail.gmail.com>

We will be hosting Software Freedom Day 2012 at San Francisco State
University. Details at
http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2012/USA/CA/San%20Francisco/San%20Francisco%20State%20University

This is the 7th year in a row, that we will be hosting the event at SF
State. More details coming soon, but mark your calendar, and come by!

September 13, 2012 10AM to 2PM. (We do it on a Thursday instead of a
Saturday because we don't get much foot traffic on weekends)

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://commons.sfsu.edu/
http://olpcsf.org/
http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/



From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  4 10:57:47 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1346781467.64043.YahooMailRC@web181401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Sep  4 11:19:15 2012
From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 11:19:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis,
	September 17: "Raik distributed NoSQL database"
Message-ID: <201209041819.q84IJFIn026391@bolt.sonic.net>


The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting:

  Monday
  September 17, 2012
  7:00pm - 9:00pm

Presentation:

  "Riak distributed NoSQL database"
  Daniel Reverri, Client Architect, Basho Technologies, Inc.

  Riak is an open source, highly scalable, fault-tolerant distributed
  NoSQL database, implementing the principles from Amazon's Dynamo paper.

  Different than traditional relational databases and other NoSQL
  non-relational databases, Riak offers a number of unique benefits
  to users: it operates in highly-distributed environments ('the
  cloud'); it is master-less (no single point of failure); it is highly
  fault-tolerant; it makes data highly available; it scales simply and
  intelligently; it is incredibly stable; its simple design makes for
  a lower cost of operations.

About the Speaker:

  Daniel Reverri is Client Architect at Basho Technologies, which
  offers products and services based on Riak.  Their customers include
  fast-growing web businesses and large Fortune 500 enterprises.
  Founded in 2008 by a group of engineers and executives from
  Akami Technologies, Inc., Basho is heardquartered in
  Cambridge, Massachusetts, with offices in San Francisco, CA,
  Reston, Virginia, and London, England.


This meeting will be held at:

  Yolo County Library, Mary L. Stephen's Davis Branch
  Blanchard Community Room
  315 East 14th Street
  Davis, California 95616


For more details on this meeting, visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/#next

or simply:

  http://www.lugod.org/ (and follow the links)


For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/


------------
About LUGOD:
------------

  The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
  dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source
  and Free Software.

  Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers
  in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater
  Sacramento region.  Events are always free and open to the public.

  Please visit our website for more details:  http://www.lugod.org/


-- 
Bill Kendrick
pr at lugod.org
Public Relations Officer
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/

(Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com )



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 18:21:27 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 18:21:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link WBR-2310
Message-ID: <CAJdae4qm9NsLLbYf1JD4QyHY+5ntf-UR_8ZBm9Oct7qxA2YVhg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am trying to troubleshoot a D-link WBR-2310 wireless router in a public
school.  The Ubuntu 12.04 notebook can see it, but not connect.  I know
that the notebook can see the wifi access point, called maria, and I know
that the notebook can access another wifi access point, called moscow, but
it can't access maria.  Any suggestions?  Thanks
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From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com  Tue Sep  4 19:08:49 2012
From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor)
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 19:08:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link WBR-2310
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4qm9NsLLbYf1JD4QyHY+5ntf-UR_8ZBm9Oct7qxA2YVhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJdae4qm9NsLLbYf1JD4QyHY+5ntf-UR_8ZBm9Oct7qxA2YVhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL=Be0Vn3ouhTBSu-S6ps+yThURy_YxeHX+xGihF04_fCkJLBA@mail.gmail.com>

Did you check that the wifi protocol level (b,g or n) is.supported by the
netbook?
 On Sep 4, 2012 6:23 PM, "Christian Einfeldt" <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am trying to troubleshoot a D-link WBR-2310 wireless router in a public
> school.  The Ubuntu 12.04 notebook can see it, but not connect.  I know
> that the notebook can see the wifi access point, called maria, and I know
> that the notebook can access another wifi access point, called moscow, but
> it can't access maria.  Any suggestions?  Thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Sep  5 11:45:07 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:45:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] On participating in the community
Message-ID: <20120905184507.GA4024@linuxmafia.com>

----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> -----

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 11:31:45 -0700
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
To: [name omitted]
Subject: Re: /network/what_the_fuck

Quoting [name and e-mail address omitted]:

> *# i have put this to some others leaving them>>*
> 
> *# bewildered...*
[rest of a long and only semi-coherently explained technical problem omitted]


You really need to post things like this to Linux community mailing
lists, rather than sending them to individuals via private mail.

Yes, it's really convenient (to you) to get (or at least seek)
free-of-charge private help from strangers and near-strangers.  There
are really good reasons why you should avoid doing so:

1.  If you do it in public, many, many people may be helped by the
asking and answering of your question.  This includes people who find
the discussion in months and years to come, through Web-searching.
By contrast, asking in private mail means at most one person -- you --
can ever benefit.

2.  If you ask in public, you benefit by reaching many people who might
be able to help you, instead of only one.

3.  If you ask in public, everyone else you ask benefits from your
courtesy, in that they are then able to choose to participate if they
have time and energy, rather than being buttonholed by you personally
and dragged into dealing with you.


This next item is the difficult one, because people in your position
tend to get their backs up and start defending themselves (talking about
what good people they are, and about the purity of their motives, etc.),
which is unfortunate because that means they _stop listening_.  And yet
it's the most important bit:

4.  If you ask in public, you show basic politeness to those of us who
are technology professionals, i.e., who deal with other people's
software and hardware problems for a living.  We choose to participate
in the _public_ Linux and open source community, and never ask for a
penny... why?  Have you ever bothered to consider that question?  If
not, you should.  Typically, we do it to help build the general strength
of Linux and open source at the expense of our (often) extremely limited
free time, something that really happens only via public discussion.
And we do it to repay the debt of gratitude we owe to the people who had
taught us the same way, back in the day.  

By contrast, if you bother us for private help, there is a traditional,
established word for it: 'consulting'.  Which you are somehow expecting
us to do for free of charge for the benefit of someone we don't know or
barely know, someone who has gone out of the way to ignore the norms of
how the community works by cutting out of public discussion and grabbing
our attention privately.  Even though we're typically really busy and
paid very well for our time, you're grabbing us privately and saying
'Help me for free at my convenience, right now, because I'm a supremely
important person and I also think _your_ time and effort and
professional skill has no value.'

And yes, after seeing about thirty years of this clueless bullshit
behaviour from thoughtless strangers, I am a little cranky about it.
Anyway, _that_:  Don't do that.

Ask in public.  Politely.  Concisely.  Clearly.  Then wait.

If you still don't get help, maybe you need to figure it out for
yourself.  Or hire a consultant.

P.S.:  One of the reasons this pattern of behaviour is so galling is
that I busted my butt explaining how to ask help _fruitfully_, and for
my trouble keep getting ignored.
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

----- End forwarded message -----



From sundquistjames at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 14:20:54 2012
From: sundquistjames at gmail.com (James Sundquist)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 14:20:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link router
Message-ID: <CAP6MHLqG6_hZxiRJJrzK8KhwTrDV7foP1YquAB1rDqVvsYqeLw@mail.gmail.com>

I had a similar problem the other day when connecting to a wireless n
network over ipv4. I'd connect but still have no internet access. Solved
the problem by manually entering the gateway, ip, and dns I needed to
associate to.
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 15:17:06 2012
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 15:17:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link router
In-Reply-To: <CAP6MHLqG6_hZxiRJJrzK8KhwTrDV7foP1YquAB1rDqVvsYqeLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP6MHLqG6_hZxiRJJrzK8KhwTrDV7foP1YquAB1rDqVvsYqeLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJdae4rFYe1F493wFShW9dMsnMiUMhjJV4yr8ONDOfCHtV8s7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for your reply...

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 2:20 PM, James Sundquist <sundquistjames at gmail.com>wrote:

> I had a similar problem the other day when connecting to a wireless n
> network over ipv4. I'd connect but still have no internet access. Solved
> the problem by manually entering the gateway, ip, and dns I needed to
> associate to.
>
>
> Where do you enter that info?
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From sundquistjames at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 17:57:07 2012
From: sundquistjames at gmail.com (James Sundquist)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 17:57:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link router
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4rFYe1F493wFShW9dMsnMiUMhjJV4yr8ONDOfCHtV8s7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAP6MHLqG6_hZxiRJJrzK8KhwTrDV7foP1YquAB1rDqVvsYqeLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJdae4rFYe1F493wFShW9dMsnMiUMhjJV4yr8ONDOfCHtV8s7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP6MHLrP8LGWOUXTYQOhN7CsuDMU1uzCbp+cocK0p2DvMzws4A@mail.gmail.com>

It honestly depends on your setup.  I don't remember how to use
Network-Manager, which I assume you're using.  Be sure to be as specific as
possible when describing your setup.  'sudo iwconfig' will be the place to
find your connection details.  I'm also not sure whether you have
administrative access to the router.

-James

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thanks for your reply...
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 2:20 PM, James Sundquist <sundquistjames at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I had a similar problem the other day when connecting to a wireless n
>> network over ipv4. I'd connect but still have no internet access. Solved
>> the problem by manually entering the gateway, ip, and dns I needed to
>> associate to.
>>
>>
>> Where do you enter that info?
>
>
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 18:33:59 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 18:33:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link WBR-2310
In-Reply-To: <CAJdae4qm9NsLLbYf1JD4QyHY+5ntf-UR_8ZBm9Oct7qxA2YVhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1346895239.15150.YahooMailClassic@web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

I've had similar problems? in the past and I believe the problem had to do with dhcp. To make the connection your machine must not only "see" and negotiate a "conversation" with the access point but it must also be given a DHCP lease which in turn must include not only an IP address but also resolver information. What I experienced before is that my access point was not providing me a resolver? that worked for my particular machine. 
It may be that you've no DHCP services provided through the access point that "doesn't work." 
alex

a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Tue, 9/4/12, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
Subject: [sf-lug] D-link WBR-2310
To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 4, 2012, 6:21 PM

Hi,

I am trying to troubleshoot a D-link WBR-2310 wireless router in a public school.? The Ubuntu 12.04 notebook can see it, but not connect.? I know that the notebook can see the wifi access point, called maria, and I know that the notebook can access another wifi access point, called moscow, but it can't access maria.? Any suggestions?? Thanks




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From algoldor at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  5 21:31:58 2012
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:31:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux mint - keyboard switchin hangul
Message-ID: <1346905918.33725.YahooMailNeo@web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all,
I need to install Korean keyboard on my Linux Mint Maya. I can do that quite pretty easily but I fail to change to the hangul - Korean alphabet later on

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul

which is my major goal. I have tried to install Language support for Korean from the control center but nothing happens. I have tried different keyboard short cuts to switch to the hangul when I've the Korean keyboard active but nothing happens which is strange. The difference in Korean keyboard compared for example to Spanish is that first it loads itself to the "usual" romanized system with "Western alphabet" and after that you have an option to switch to the Korean native alphabet - hangul. Well in this case the switch to hangul doesn't work and I do not know why, I have tried the "special hangul" function key which is on every keyboard here, combined it with left or right alt, left or righ ctr, both, space key, name it, nothing.


Do you have any ideas how to treat this? I need to start to write some texts in Korean and this is very limiting, not mentioning that it is actually quite embarrassing ...

In the worst case I would be willing to switch to vim and do the writing in hangul there if the terminal was somehow the option ...


Many thanks,

Sincerely,

?
Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck


biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker


http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org


"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
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From audvare at gmail.com  Wed Sep  5 21:42:26 2012
From: audvare at gmail.com (Andrew Udvare)
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2012 21:42:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux mint - keyboard switchin hangul
In-Reply-To: <1346905918.33725.YahooMailNeo@web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1346905918.33725.YahooMailNeo@web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAJfjkGpwakP3t3sayoATKngvJ+YAcEawYO1zEcJp5qirD43awA@mail.gmail.com>

Don't know about others, but here is the KDE way:

KDE has options in System Settings -> Input Devices -> Keyboard (on left)
-> Layouts tab.

Under Layout Indicator section, make sure 'Show layout indicator is
checked' and 'Show label' is on.

Make sure 'Configure Layouts' is checked and then click Add.

Limit selection by language: Korean
Layout: Korean
Variant: Default (choose variant)
Label: kr
Shortcut: (assign a shortcut for easy switching like Meta+Alt+K)

This is how I have Arabic keyboard layout switching.

Andrew


On Wednesday, 5 September 2012, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I need to install Korean keyboard on my Linux Mint Maya. I can do that
> quite pretty easily but I fail to change to the hangul - Korean alphabet
> later on
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul
>
> which is my major goal. I have tried to install Language support for
> Korean from the control center but nothing happens. I have tried different
> keyboard short cuts to switch to the hangul when I've the Korean keyboard
> active but nothing happens which is strange. The difference in Korean
> keyboard compared for example to Spanish is that first it loads itself to
> the "usual" romanized system with "Western alphabet" and after that you
> have an option to switch to the Korean native alphabet - hangul. Well in
> this case the switch to hangul doesn't work and I do not know why, I have
> tried the "special hangul" function key which is on every keyboard here,
> combined it with left or right alt, left or righ ctr, both, space key, name
> it, nothing.
>
> Do you have any ideas how to treat this? I need to start to write some
> texts in Korean and this is very limiting, not mentioning that it is
> actually quite embarrassing ...
>
> In the worst case I would be willing to switch to vim and do the writing
> in hangul there if the terminal was somehow the option ...
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
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From algoldor at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  6 02:30:46 2012
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 02:30:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux mint - keyboard switchin hangul
In-Reply-To: <CAJfjkGpwakP3t3sayoATKngvJ+YAcEawYO1zEcJp5qirD43awA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1346905918.33725.YahooMailNeo@web112404.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CAJfjkGpwakP3t3sayoATKngvJ+YAcEawYO1zEcJp5qirD43awA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1346923846.3008.YahooMailNeo@web112411.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Sounds like I got all the way to 

?
>> 

Limit selection by language: Korean
Layout: Korean
Variant: Default (choose variant)
Label: kr>>

so the next step is 

>>
Shortcut: (assign a shortcut for easy switching like Meta+Alt+K)
>>

I will do some reading how to assign shortcuts in my environment and I hope to report success by tomorrow!
Shortcut: (assign a shortcut for easy switching like Meta+Alt+K)

Many thanks,


Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck


biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
ancient game Loader

http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org


"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi



________________________________
 From: Andrew Udvare <audvare at gmail.com>
To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com> 
Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux mint - keyboard switchin hangul
 

Don't know about others, but here is the KDE way:
KDE has options in System Settings -> Input Devices -> Keyboard (on left) -> Layouts tab.

Under Layout Indicator section, make sure 'Show layout indicator is checked' and 'Show label' is on.


Make sure 'Configure Layouts' is checked and then click Add.

Limit selection by language: Korean
Layout: Korean
Variant: Default (choose variant)
Label: kr
Shortcut: (assign a shortcut for easy switching like Meta+Alt+K)

This is how I have Arabic keyboard layout switching.

Andrew


>On Wednesday, 5 September 2012, Frantisek Apfelbeck  wrote:

Hi to all,
>I need to install Korean keyboard on my Linux Mint Maya. I can do that quite pretty easily but I fail to change to the hangul - Korean alphabet later on
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul
>
>
>which is my major goal. I have tried to install Language support for Korean from the control center but nothing happens. I have tried different keyboard short cuts to switch to the hangul when I've the Korean keyboard active but nothing happens which is strange. The difference in Korean keyboard compared for example to Spanish is that first it loads itself to the "usual" romanized system with "Western alphabet" and after that you have an option to switch to the Korean native alphabet - hangul. Well in this case the switch to hangul doesn't work and I do not know why, I have tried the "special hangul" function key which is on every keyboard here, combined it with left or right alt, left or righ ctr, both, space key, name it, nothing.
>
>
>
>Do you have any ideas how to treat this? I need to start to write some texts in Korean and this is very limiting, not mentioning that it is actually quite embarrassing ...
>
>
>In the worst case I would be willing to switch to vim and do the writing in hangul there if the terminal was somehow the option ...
>
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>
>Sincerely,
>?
>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
>http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
>
>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
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From jim at well.com  Fri Sep  7 10:33:22 2012
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:33:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2012
In-Reply-To: <CAFoGK8Fde115_38_yDMnSphJjxEG3z_bMNA6Fkz1CQLSpnHO=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFoGK8Fde115_38_yDMnSphJjxEG3z_bMNA6Fkz1CQLSpnHO=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347039202.1752.65.camel@jim-LAPTOP>



    Are there any volunteer duties you need? 
For instance, "we need people to man/woman the 
booth" or "we need someone(s) to duplicate 
disks" or...? 



On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 18:40 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> We will be hosting Software Freedom Day 2012 at San Francisco State
> University. Details at
> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2012/USA/CA/San%20Francisco/San%20Francisco%20State%20University
> 
> This is the 7th year in a row, that we will be hosting the event at SF
> State. More details coming soon, but mark your calendar, and come by!
> 
> September 13, 2012 10AM to 2PM. (We do it on a Thursday instead of a
> Saturday because we don't get much foot traffic on weekends)
> 
> cheers,
> Sameer





From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Sep  9 10:04:31 2012
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:04:31 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2012
In-Reply-To: <1347039202.1752.65.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
References: <CAFoGK8Fde115_38_yDMnSphJjxEG3z_bMNA6Fkz1CQLSpnHO=g@mail.gmail.com>
	<1347039202.1752.65.camel@jim-LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <CAFoGK8G7Jy7mhaZEXQUF6CNifHYh-_+KxKY=aHgZRpif3hOjbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 10:33 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
>     Are there any volunteer duties you need?
> For instance, "we need people to man/woman the
> booth" or "we need someone(s) to duplicate
> disks" or...?
>

We do have some disk duplication work. My student org will be burning
a stack of http://www.valo-cd.net/ We need some help with burning a
stack of Linux CDs or bring some if you already have these? We usually
get a stack of Ubuntu CDs, but that isn't happening this year. I'll
pay for the blank CD stack, or you can coordinate with me and pick it
up.

Sept. 13 10 AM to 2 PM at SFSU.
http://commons.sfsu.edu/event/software-freedom-day-2012

Most importantly, come to the event! Talk to the students. Let them
know about the good stuff!

cheers,
Sameer

>
>
> On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 18:40 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
>> We will be hosting Software Freedom Day 2012 at San Francisco State
>> University. Details at
>> http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2012/USA/CA/San%20Francisco/San%20Francisco%20State%20University
>>
>> This is the 7th year in a row, that we will be hosting the event at SF
>> State. More details coming soon, but mark your calendar, and come by!
>>
>> September 13, 2012 10AM to 2PM. (We do it on a Thursday instead of a
>> Saturday because we don't get much foot traffic on weekends)
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>
>
>
>



From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com  Mon Sep 10 16:14:52 2012
From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:14:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Next Monday September 17, 2012
Message-ID: <504E746C.7030301@dslextreme.com>

     SF-LUG meets every every third Monday from 6 P.M. to 8 P.M.
at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary Boulevard.

     These meetings are usually lightly attended with a high for the
year so far of 7 members.   If you have a problem come along
and maybe we can help but if not we can usually find someone
who can.

     Oh and for the Erisians and Discordians  the meeting will be
on Setting Orange, Bureaucracy 41, 3178 YOLD or so ddate
tells me.

     Bobbie Sellers




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Sep 10 18:37:41 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 18:37:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Next Monday September 17, 2012
In-Reply-To: <504E746C.7030301@dslextreme.com>
References: <504E746C.7030301@dslextreme.com>
Message-ID: <20120911013741.GP6238@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com):

> Oh and for the Erisians and Discordians  the meeting will be on
> Setting Orange, Bureaucracy 41, 3178 YOLD or so ddate tells me.

<applause>

That will also be Duodi, La F??te de la Vertu, 220 in the French
Republican Calendar.




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 11 09:44:55 2012
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Next Monday September 17, 2012
In-Reply-To: <20120911013741.GP6238@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1347381895.32425.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Rick, can we entice you to come to the meeting and explain all of that to us?alex

a_kleider at yahoo.com

--- On Mon, 9/10/12, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Next Monday September 17, 2012
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Date: Monday, September 10, 2012, 6:37 PM

Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com):

> Oh and for the Erisians and Discordians? the meeting will be on
> Setting Orange, Bureaucracy 41, 3178 YOLD or so ddate tells me.

<applause>

That will also be Duodi, La F??te de la Vertu, 220 in the French
Republican Calendar.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Sep 11 11:07:05 2012
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 11:07:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Next Monday September 17, 2012
In-Reply-To: <1347381895.32425.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <20120911013741.GP6238@linuxmafia.com>
	<1347381895.32425.YahooMailClassic@web122303.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20120911180705.GQ14005@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):

> Rick, can we entice you to come to the meeting and explain all of that to us?alex
> 
> a_kleider at yahoo.com
 
I'd love to come, but I'm going to be in Demark, Norway, and Iceland.
Uff da!

Meanwhile, the Wikipedia article on 'French Republican Calendar' should
be of some help.




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 11 15:56:41 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:56:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1347404201.11465.YahooMailRC@web181402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From algoldor at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 15 23:19:40 2012
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 23:19:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to Internet
	(Microsoft Explorer)
Message-ID: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all,
I have just successfully installed Oracle VM VirtualBox version 4.1.12 r77245

?
Next step was the installation of Windows XP (SP3), also completed, works.

However I can not connect to the Internet under the Windows XP using Microsoft Explorer. Any idea why? Below is info about the network which I use under the "master" Linux Mint and also info what I set at the Windows XP environment.

Linux Mint (Linux salixis 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux):
IP Address: 192.168.0.102
Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Route: 192.168.0.1
Primary DNS: 203.248.252.2
Secondary DNS: 164.124.101.2

Windows XP:
IP Address: 192.168.0.102
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1

I wonder if Default Route is the same as Default Gateway?

Many thanks for any help,

Sincerely,

FA


Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck


biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker


http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org


"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
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From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 00:13:23 2012
From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 00:13:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
 Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
In-Reply-To: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>

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From algoldor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 02:13:56 2012
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 02:13:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
	Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
In-Reply-To: <50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>
References: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Yes I did assign it manually. At the beginning of the Installation it asked me for the network details and when I tried to skip it it did not allow me to so I just copy the info from the Linux set up. The IP is wrong than? If so, to what shall I change it?

Many thanks,

?
Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck


biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker


http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org


"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi



________________________________
 From: Ehud Kaldor <ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com> 
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
 

 
how is it that the WindowsXP and Linux have the same IP? did you assign it manually?


Cheers,
Ehud


On 09/15/2012 11:19 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:

Hi to all,
>I have just successfully installed Oracle VM VirtualBox version 4.1.12 r77245
>
>?
>Next step was the installation of Windows XP (SP3), also
          completed, works.
>
>However I can not connect to the Internet under the Windows XP
          using Microsoft Explorer. Any idea why? Below is info about
          the network which I use under the "master" Linux Mint and also
          info what I set at the Windows XP environment.
>
>Linux Mint (Linux salixis 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue
          Apr 10 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux):
>IP Address: 192.168.0.102
>Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
>Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
>Default Route: 192.168.0.1
>Primary DNS: 203.248.252.2
>Secondary DNS: 164.124.101.2
>
>Windows XP:
>IP Address: 192.168.0.102
>Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
>Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
>
>I wonder if Default Route is the same as Default Gateway?
>
>Many thanks for any help,
>
>Sincerely,
>
>FA 
>
>
>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
>http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
>
>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
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From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 19:21:25 2012
From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:21:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
 Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
In-Reply-To: <1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>
	<1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAL=Be0WJKCwfj8=kNZq61-V0eYws2WrnnujivQb-5zJfpKY87A@mail.gmail.com>

The virtual machine (win) and physical (Linux) are two separate ones, and
as such - need separate IPs. Go into the VM's network settings and do one
ofhe following: change the network to NAT, in which VBox runs a virtual
dhcp, assigns an ip to the vm and routes it outside, or change it to
'bridged' and assign it with a new ip (0.103, for example).
In NAT you are behind routing, so the vm is accessible from outside without
further tinkering, whereas 'bridged' means I is on the network as any other
machine.
 On Sep 16, 2012 2:13 AM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes I did assign it manually. At the beginning of the Installation it
> asked me for the network details and when I tried to skip it it did not
> allow me to so I just copy the info from the Linux set up. The IP is wrong
> than? If so, to what shall I change it?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Ehud Kaldor <ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
> *To:* Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
> Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
>
>  how is it that the WindowsXP and Linux have the same IP? did you assign
> it manually?
>
> Cheers,
> Ehud
>
>  On 09/15/2012 11:19 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
>
>  Hi to all,
> I have just successfully installed Oracle VM VirtualBox version 4.1.12
> r77245
>
> Next step was the installation of Windows XP (SP3), also completed, works.
>
> However I can not connect to the Internet under the Windows XP using
> Microsoft Explorer. Any idea why? Below is info about the network which I
> use under the "master" Linux Mint and also info what I set at the Windows
> XP environment.
>
> Linux Mint (Linux salixis 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10
> 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux):
> IP Address: 192.168.0.102
> Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
> Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
> Default Route: 192.168.0.1
> Primary DNS: 203.248.252.2
> Secondary DNS: 164.124.101.2
>
> Windows XP:
> IP Address: 192.168.0.102
> Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
> Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
>
> I wonder if Default Route is the same as Default Gateway?
>
> Many thanks for any help,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FA
>
>  Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>  biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
>  "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing listsf-lug at linuxmafia.comhttp://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
>
>
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From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com  Sun Sep 16 19:25:50 2012
From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 19:25:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
 Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
In-Reply-To: <1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>
	<1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAL=Be0W4LbS1DkkiO3MwrB-hFQLb-hMeYyHVeSvhg7MbH07P4g@mail.gmail.com>

The virtual machine (win) and physical (Linux) are two separate ones, and
as such - need separate IPs. Go into the VM's network settings and do one
ofhe following: change the network to NAT, in which VBox runs a virtual
dhcp, assigns an ip to the vm and routes it outside, or change it to
'bridged'
On Sep 16, 2012 2:13 AM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Yes I did assign it manually. At the beginning of the Installation it
> asked me for the network details and when I tried to skip it it did not
> allow me to so I just copy the info from the Linux set up. The IP is wrong
> than? If so, to what shall I change it?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Ehud Kaldor <ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
> *To:* Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:13 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
> Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
>
>  how is it that the WindowsXP and Linux have the same IP? did you assign
> it manually?
>
> Cheers,
> Ehud
>
>  On 09/15/2012 11:19 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
>
>  Hi to all,
> I have just successfully installed Oracle VM VirtualBox version 4.1.12
> r77245
>
> Next step was the installation of Windows XP (SP3), also completed, works.
>
> However I can not connect to the Internet under the Windows XP using
> Microsoft Explorer. Any idea why? Below is info about the network which I
> use under the "master" Linux Mint and also info what I set at the Windows
> XP environment.
>
> Linux Mint (Linux salixis 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue Apr 10
> 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux):
> IP Address: 192.168.0.102
> Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
> Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
> Default Route: 192.168.0.1
> Primary DNS: 203.248.252.2
> Secondary DNS: 164.124.101.2
>
> Windows XP:
> IP Address: 192.168.0.102
> Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
> Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
>
> I wonder if Default Route is the same as Default Gateway?
>
> Many thanks for any help,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FA
>
>  Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>  biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
>  "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing listsf-lug at linuxmafia.comhttp://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
>
>
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From algoldor at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 16 20:44:09 2012
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 20:44:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to
	Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
In-Reply-To: <CAL=Be0WJKCwfj8=kNZq61-V0eYws2WrnnujivQb-5zJfpKY87A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1347776380.25087.YahooMailNeo@web112407.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<50557C13.9050205@gmail.com>
	<1347786836.29012.YahooMailNeo@web112419.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<CAL=Be0WJKCwfj8=kNZq61-V0eYws2WrnnujivQb-5zJfpKY87A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1347853449.69517.YahooMailNeo@web112412.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Well hmm where to start :-) First I have figured out somehow so I can connect under the VirtualBox Windows XP machine but I do not like that because I do not completely understand what I have done. The thing which worked for me was that I changed in the Windows XP machine in the Network set: Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) properties: obtain an IP address automatically and also obtain an DNS server address automatically. However I have some questions below so I understand things properly and I can set up static IP.


When I click in the Oracle VM VirtualBox Manager on the File ==> Preferences ==> Network I get window with: vboxnet0 If I click on it I get: 


IPv4 Address: 192.168.56.1?? # is this the Default Gateway?

IPv4 Network Mask: 255.255.255.0

DHCP Server: Enabled
Address: 192.168.56.100? # is this the static IP address???

Network Mask: 255.255.255.0
Lower Bound: 192.168.56.101
Upper Bound: 192.168.56.254
??? What is the DNS server address???


When I click in the Oracle VM VirtualBox Manager on Machine ==> Settings ==> Network? I get Adapter 1 ==> Attached to NAT?

If I click under the Machine, Setting, Network on the Bridged Adapter it doesn't give me any option to change IP address at least not under this menu.

Now I finally managed to find where to change IP and other network staff at Windows XP and when I select Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) it gives me this info:

IP Address: 192.168.0.102

Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
Use the fallowing DNS address: 

Preferred DNS server: 203.248.252.2
Alternate DNS server: 164.124.101.2

What shall I change for what?

Sorry for asking so much but there are three different settings and even when experimenting it doesn't work yet.

Many thanks,

Sincerely,


?
Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck


biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker


http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org


"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi



________________________________
 From: Ehud Kaldor <ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com> 
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
 

The virtual machine (win) and physical (Linux) are two separate ones, and as such - need separate IPs. Go into the VM's network settings and do one ofhe following: change the network to NAT, in which VBox runs a virtual dhcp, assigns an ip to the vm and routes it outside, or change it to 'bridged' and assign it with a new ip (0.103, for example).
In NAT you are behind routing, so the vm is accessible from outside without further tinkering, whereas 'bridged' means I is on the network as any other machine.

On Sep 16, 2012 2:13 AM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" <algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes I did assign it manually. At the beginning of the Installation it asked me for the network details and when I tried to skip it it did not allow me to so I just copy the info from the Linux set up. The IP is wrong than? If so, to what shall I change it?
>
>
>Many thanks,
>
>?
>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
>http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
>
>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Ehud Kaldor <ehud.kaldor at gmail.com>
>To: Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com> 
>Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com> 
>Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [sf-lug] virtualbox - windows xp - problem to connect to Internet (Microsoft Explorer)
> 
>
>how is it that the WindowsXP and Linux have the same IP? did you assign it manually?
>
>
>Cheers,
>Ehud
>
>
On 09/15/2012 11:19 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
>
>Hi to all,
>>I have just successfully installed Oracle VM VirtualBox version 4.1.12 r77245
>>
>>?
>>Next step was the installation of Windows XP (SP3), also
          completed, works.
>>
>>However I can not connect to the Internet under the Windows XP
          using Microsoft Explorer. Any idea why? Below is info about
          the network which I use under the "master" Linux Mint and also
          info what I set at the Windows XP environment.
>>
>>Linux Mint (Linux salixis 3.2.0-23-generic #36-Ubuntu SMP Tue
          Apr 10 20:41:14 UTC 2012 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux):
>>IP Address: 192.168.0.102
>>Broadcast Address: 192.168.0.255
>>Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
>>Default Route: 192.168.0.1
>>Primary DNS: 203.248.252.2
>>Secondary DNS: 164.124.101.2
>>
>>Windows XP:
>>IP Address: 192.168.0.102
>>Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
>>Default Gateway: 192.168.0.1
>>
>>I wonder if Default Route is the same as Default Gateway?
>>
>>Many thanks for any help,
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>FA 
>>
>>
>>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>>
>>
>>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>>
>>
>>http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>>
>>
>>
>>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>
>
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Sep 17 14:58:14 2012
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 14:58:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMORROW! Tu: Gary Longoria on Scratch;
	& Raspberry Pi	benefit auction!
Message-ID: <20120917145814.20691mpz0y0tvv8g@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG TOMORROW! Tu: Gary Longoria on Scratch; & Raspberry Pi benefit auction!

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting
TOMORROW Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2012-09-18

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2012-09-18 BALUG meeting, we're please to present

Gary Longoria on Scratch, plus: Raspberry Pi benefit auction!

Gary Longoria will talk about his experience using Scratch to teach
programming to high school students at the UC Berkeley Pre-College
Academy during the Summer. [watch the BALUG website for additional
details]

Raspberry Pi Partimus[1] benefit auction!
Want to get your hands on a Raspberry Pi?
How about also benefiting a very cool open source and education related
cause?
You can do both! Partimus has a Raspberry Pi to be auctioned off at this
BALUG meeting, all proceeds to go to Partimus.
(there may be minimum/reserve price on bidding, details to be covered
not later than at the auction itself).  [watch the BALUG website for
additional details]

1. http://partimus.org/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to:

                        rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help
BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with
sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

                        6:30pm
                        Tuesday, September 18th, 2012 2012-09-18

                        Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
                        731 Grant Ave.
                        San Francisco, CA 94108
                        Easy PARKING:
                          Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny:
                          http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13
              cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy
              family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift
              also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping
              to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner).

------------------------------

Twitter - you can also follow BALUG on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/#!/BALUG_org

------------------------------

CDs, etc.

We'll have CDs noted below available at the meeting, and at least some
other goodies too.

CDs, etc. - have a peek here:
http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc
We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have
"door prizes".

------------------------------

volunteering to help BALUG

Want to volunteer to help out BALUG?  (quite a variety of opportunities)
Drop us a note at:
balug-contact at balug.org
Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting.

------------------------------

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

------------------------------

http://www.balug.org/




From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 18 21:48:21 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 21:48:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1348030101.52450.YahooMailRC@web181403.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Fri Sep 21 10:19:19 2012
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC San Francisco Community Summit 2012
Message-ID: <CAFoGK8FshsvUGrqEPR-6r4gM5EMgqB8vGCLTtAFtsw-h4QJx-g@mail.gmail.com>

Registration is now open for the upcoming OLPC San Francisco Community
Summit 2012.

http://www.olpcsf.org/node/70

See you there!

We will also be hosting SugarCamp++ (OCt 22-24) right after the
summit. SugarCamp++ will be at the same location.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugarcamp_SF_2012

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://commons.sfsu.edu/
http://olpcsf.org/
http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/



From nbs at sonic.net  Sun Sep 23 10:58:12 2012
From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 10:58:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis,
	October 15: "Home CNC Machining with Linux"
Message-ID: <201209231758.q8NHwC5q004202@bolt.sonic.net>


The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting:

  Monday
  October 15, 2012
  7:00pm - 9:00pm

Presentation:

  "Home CNC Machining with Linux"
  Steve Inness

  CNC (Computer Numerical Control) mills and lathes can be built
  relatively inexpensively by hobbyists. These machines can machine
  aluminum, steel, brass, plastic, and other materials. They can engrave
  aluminum or plastic. They can route and "V-carve" wood. They can make
  printed-circuit boards by machining off the thin copper layer.

  This meeting will demonstrate actual machining, describe the
  electronics, and show how to install and use free open-source software
  under Linux.

  Attendees will get a chance to take home their own engraved/machined
  object.

About LinuxCNC:

  LinuxCNC (previously "Enhanced Machine controller") is an open
  source software system to implement numerical control capability --
  the automation of machine tools (e.g., milling machines and lathes)
  that are operated by abstractly-programmed commands (as opposed to
  controlled manually via handwheels or levers, or mechanically-automated
  via cams alone) -- using general purpose computers (PCs).

  Originally developed by NIST (the National Institute of Standards and
  Technology) as a 'reference implementaton' of the industry standard
  language for numerical control of machining operations (RS-274D,
  aka G-code), the project demonstrated the feasibility of an advanced
  numerical control system using off-the-shelf PC hardware running
  FreeBSD or Linux.

  LinuxCNC provides several graphical user interfaces including one
  for touch screens, a "G-code" interpreter, a realtime motion planning
  system, operation of low-level machine electronics (such as sensors
  and motor drives), an easy-to-use "breadboard" layer (for quickly
  creating unique configurations for your machine), a software PLC
  (programmable logic controller).

  A variety of interfaces are supported, and up to 9 axes can be moved
  simultaneously. It can operate true servos or stepper motors. Motion
  control features include: cutter radius and length compensation,
  path deviation limited to a specified tolerance, lathe threading,
  synchronized axis motion, adaptive feedrate, operator feed override, and
  constant velocity control. Support for non-Cartesian motion systems is
  provided via custom kinematics modules. Available architectures include
  hexapods (Stewart platforms and similar concepts) and systems with
  rotary joints to provide motion such as PUMA or SCARA robots. (Refs:
  linuxcnc.org and Wikipedia)

This meeting will be held at:

  Yolo County Library, Mary L. Stephen's Davis Branch
  Blanchard Community Room
  315 East 14th Street
  Davis, California 95616


For more details on this meeting, visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/#next

or simply:

  http://www.lugod.org/ (and follow the links)


For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit:

  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/


------------
About LUGOD:
------------

  The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization
  dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source
  and Free Software.

  Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers
  in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater
  Sacramento region.  Events are always free and open to the public.

  You can find LUGOD on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/lugod/
  and on LinkedIn at: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=35879

  Please visit our website for more details:  http://www.lugod.org/


-- 
Bill Kendrick
pr at lugod.org
Public Relations Officer
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/

(Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com )



From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 25 10:59:15 2012
From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig)
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 10:59:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - SF-LUG LSG Linux Discussion at
	Noisebridge
Message-ID: <1348595955.27086.YahooMailRC@web181404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

The SF-LUG Linux Study Group hosts a general Linux Discussion meeting at 
Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing 
classroom.

Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San 
Francisco.

Info:  www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net

Joseph