From grantbow at ubuntu.com Sun Oct 2 11:35:46 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2011 21:35:46 +0300 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.org broken? Message-ID: As sf-lug.com responds appropriately to my eye, when will sf-lug.org respond the same way? Grant From jim at well.com Sun Oct 2 15:41:24 2011 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:41:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.org broken? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1317595284.2130.4.camel@jim-LAPTOP> probably i should change the host for sf-lug.org. the current host belongs to circlesoft (gerard chercio, and thank yous...), but it's a BSD box on which i've not got root privileges. On Sun, 2011-10-02 at 21:35 +0300, Grant Bowman wrote: > As sf-lug.com responds appropriately to my eye, when will sf-lug.org > respond the same way? > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 17:24:24 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 17:24:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick Message-ID: hi, My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB stick. More precisely, I am planning to use my Android phone (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does that seem unwise to anyone? I carry my Android phone with me everywhere, so I thought it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with me everywhere without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use Ububntu 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 23:18:59 2011 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Christian -- That sounds like extra work to me, not to mention extra wear/tear on your phone (though I'm the last person to opine about cell phones). You couldn't just boot off the USB stick and carry it around with you? Larry Cafeiro On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer to a > dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. ?The machine is from 2010 and has no > CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB stick. ?More precisely, I > am planning to use my Android phone (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. > ?Does that seem unwise to anyone? ?I carry my Android phone with me > everywhere, so I thought it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with > me everywhere without having to carry a separate USB stick. ?I plan to use > Ububntu 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. ?Thx in advance. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 10:14:35 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:14:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Christian, How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 seconds, and had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If you'd attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! Ken On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > > My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer to a > dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from 2010 and has no > CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB stick. More precisely, I > am planning to use my Android phone (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. > Does that seem unwise to anyone? I carry my Android phone with me > everywhere, so I thought it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with > me everywhere without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use > Ububntu 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 10:23:43 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:23:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Darn, I should have attended the last SF-LUG meeting! I just went out and bought a USB drive and I am now attempting to put 10.04 on it. I might need that rubber Tux soon, if you were available to hook up! Are you in the city? I will let you know soon about the status of my install attempts On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > Hi Christian, > How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? It's > set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 seconds, and had about > 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If you'd attended one of > the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! > Ken > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > >> hi, >> >> My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer to a >> dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from 2010 and has no >> CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB stick. More precisely, I >> am planning to use my Android phone (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. >> Does that seem unwise to anyone? I carry my Android phone with me >> everywhere, so I thought it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with >> me everywhere without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use >> Ububntu 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then >> move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 10:27:18 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:27:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> this sounds good. where can i buy one? is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash Drive from ZAReason (and other similar sources)? On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > Hi Christian, > How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? > It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 seconds, and > had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If you'd > attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! > Ken > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt > wrote: > > hi, > > My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer > to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from > 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB > stick. More precisely, I am planning to use my Android phone > (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does that seem unwise to > anyone? I carry my Android phone with me everywhere, so I thought > it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with me everywhere > without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use Ububntu > 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From akkana at shallowsky.com Tue Oct 4 10:50:35 2011 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 10:50:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111004175035.GA5915@shallowsky.com> Christian Einfeldt writes: > Darn, I should have attended the last SF-LUG meeting! I just went out and > bought a USB drive and I am now attempting to put 10.04 on it. I might need > that rubber Tux soon, if you were available to hook up! Are you in the I never had much luck making bootable USB sticks of 10.04. Supposedly it's possible, but it only seems to work if you're already running a 10.04 that's exactly the same as what you're trying to put on the stick (e.g. burn a CD first and boot from that). If you're willing to run a beta OS, Ubuntu Oneiric (currently in beta 2) is MUCH easier to put on a USB stick than earlier versions. You can just use dd to copy the ISO file to the stick, like you can with Fedora. For Natty (11.04), I had success with unetbootin for making a bootable USB stick (I had no luck with usb-cd-creator). Of course, neither of those is a long-term-support release. And neither dd nor unetbootin sets up the USB stick so it can save your settings from one boot to the next. It should be possible to do that after the fact, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. ...Akkana From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 4 11:19:20 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:19:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111004181920.GA16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > hi, 'Lo. > My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer to > a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from 2010 and > has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB stick. Maybe you should consider using a virtual machine setup, rather than putting Linux on a USB stick or any other form of dual-booting (as in rebooting to an alternate OS). No reason why you can't and shouldn't have Linux on a USB stick too, _but_, for a machine you actually depend on for work, it's much more reasonable to have access to both OSes at the same time, mount volumes from one onto the other (via Samba), and transfer text between them using Clipboard. Some years ago, when I was working at a large EDA firm in its Linux Management department, I ran Debian Testing/Unstable natively on the ThinkPad T42p they issued me, but also needed ongoing ability to use MS-Outlook/MS-Exchange for corporate e-mail and scheduling, and MSIE to reach a few ActiveX-dependent intranet sites, so I took care of that by installing VMware Workstation 5.x and running XP Pro in the virtual session. That worked beautifully, and avoided the need to let a Microsoft OS loose on a native machine. These days, you also have a number of other VM options, including VirtualBox. The limiting factor might be RAM, if you're addicted to the more hideously bloated Desktop Environments (**cough** Unity **cough**). -- Cheers, "When closing parentheses, it's polite to post Rick Moen a sign saying when they will reopen." rick at linuxmafia.com -- FakeAPStylebook McQ! (4x80) From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 11:19:57 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 11:19:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <20111004175035.GA5915@shallowsky.com> References: <20111004175035.GA5915@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: HI, I just loaded 10.04 onto the stick, supposedly. Hopeully it works. On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Akkana Peck wrote: > Christian Einfeldt writes: > > Darn, I should have attended the last SF-LUG meeting! I just went out > and > > bought a USB drive and I am now attempting to put 10.04 on it. I might > need > > that rubber Tux soon, if you were available to hook up! Are you in the > > I never had much luck making bootable USB sticks of 10.04. > Supposedly it's possible, but it only seems to work if you're > already running a 10.04 that's exactly the same as what you're trying > to put on the stick (e.g. burn a CD first and boot from that). > > If you're willing to run a beta OS, Ubuntu Oneiric (currently in > beta 2) is MUCH easier to put on a USB stick than earlier versions. > You can just use dd to copy the ISO file to the stick, like you can > with Fedora. For Natty (11.04), I had success with unetbootin for > making a bootable USB stick (I had no luck with usb-cd-creator). > Of course, neither of those is a long-term-support release. > > And neither dd nor unetbootin sets up the USB stick so it can save > your settings from one boot to the next. It should be possible to > do that after the fact, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere. > > ...Akkana > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 12:50:52 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:50:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <20111004181920.GA16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111004181920.GA16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E8B639C.3070809@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 13:34:43 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 13:34:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael, These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold by Cyberguys for 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on Amazon with the right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, since they do not claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie gave me seems to read OK, haven't had time to try using it for anything. I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, so I can label the ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. Also, change the heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M (and in the future will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). Ken On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > this sounds good. where can i buy one? > > is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash Drive from ZAReason (and > other similar sources)? > > > On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > >> Hi Christian, >> How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? >> It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 seconds, and >> had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If you'd >> attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! >> Ken >> >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt > > wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work computer >> to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from >> 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of a USB >> stick. More precisely, I am planning to use my Android phone >> (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does that seem unwise to >> anyone? I carry my Android phone with me everywhere, so I thought >> it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with me everywhere >> without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use Ububntu >> 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, and then >> move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/** > group/teach-me-to-make > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 13:38:37 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:38:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> Brilliant! So you have found a way to recycle what the average consumer would consider too small and thus useless memory cards. Bravo! Is there a writeup? I would post this to the MAKE blog. On 10/04/2011 01:34 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > Hi Michael, > These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold by Cyberguys for > 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on Amazon with the > right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, since they do not > claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie gave me seems to > read OK, haven't had time to try using it for anything. > I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, so I can label the > ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. Also, change the > heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M (and in the future > will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). > Ken > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > > wrote: > > this sounds good. where can i buy one? > > is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash Drive from ZAReason > (and other similar sources)? > > > On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > Hi Christian, > How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? > It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 > seconds, and > had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If > you'd > attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! > Ken > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt > > >> wrote: > > hi, > > My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work > computer > to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is from > 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of > a USB > stick. More precisely, I am planning to use my Android phone > (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does that seem unwise to > anyone? I carry my Android phone with me everywhere, so I > thought > it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with me > everywhere > without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use > Ububntu > 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, > and then > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ > group/teach-me-to-make > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 15:53:32 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 15:53:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: The usb live setup is a small part of a much larger general usb stick writeup I have. I'll send it to you and you can post the link back here. I've been meaning to get it posted for at least a year, but always found things to change! Ken On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > Brilliant! So you have found a way to recycle what the average consumer > would consider too small and thus useless memory cards. Bravo! > > Is there a writeup? I would post this to the MAKE blog. > > > On 10/04/2011 01:34 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > >> Hi Michael, >> These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold by Cyberguys for >> 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on Amazon with the >> right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, since they do not >> claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie gave me seems to >> read OK, haven't had time to try using it for anything. >> I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, so I can label the >> ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. Also, change the >> heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M (and in the future >> will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). >> Ken >> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >> >> >> wrote: >> >> this sounds good. where can i buy one? >> >> is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash Drive from ZAReason >> (and other similar sources)? >> >> >> On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: >> >> Hi Christian, >> How about a little rubber usb penguin which attaches to your phone? >> It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots up in 45 >> seconds, and >> had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT writeable too). If >> you'd >> attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, you'd have one! >> Ken >> >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt >> >> >> wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> My employer has said I am going to be able to move my work >> computer >> to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft Windows. The machine is >> from >> 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to have to boot off of >> a USB >> stick. More precisely, I am planning to use my Android phone >> (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does that seem unwise to >> anyone? I carry my Android phone with me everywhere, so I >> thought >> it would be nice to always have a Linux distro with me >> everywhere >> without having to carry a separate USB stick. I plan to use >> Ububntu >> 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows XP hard drive, >> and then >> move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in advance. >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> **> >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> >> > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> -- >> Michael Shiloh >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> KA6RCQ >> www.teachmetomake.com >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> > >> >> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ >> group/teach-me-to-make >> >> > >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 16:32:08 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 16:32:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: Hi, I was able to download 10.04 and install it on the USB stick and then install it on my boss's Microsoft Windows machine. Now I am dual booted ! I hope to soon be using 10.04 as my day-to-day computing environment again -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Tue Oct 4 16:38:24 2011 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:38:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <1317771504.1819.5.camel@jim-LAPTOP> can we post it on the SF-LUG site, too? On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 15:53 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: > The usb live setup is a small part of a much larger general usb stick > writeup I have. I'll send it to you > and you can post the link back here. I've been meaning to get it > posted for at least a year, but always found things to change! > Ken > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: > Brilliant! So you have found a way to recycle what the average > consumer would consider too small and thus useless memory > cards. Bravo! > > Is there a writeup? I would post this to the MAKE blog. > > > On 10/04/2011 01:34 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > Hi Michael, > These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold > by Cyberguys for > 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on > Amazon with the > right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, > since they do not > claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie > gave me seems to > read OK, haven't had time to try using it for > anything. > I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, > so I can label the > ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. > Also, change the > heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M > (and in the future > will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). > Ken > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > > > wrote: > > this sounds good. where can i buy one? > > is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash > Drive from ZAReason > (and other similar sources)? > > > On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > Hi Christian, > How about a little rubber usb penguin which > attaches to your phone? > It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots > up in 45 > seconds, and > had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT > writeable too). If > you'd > attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, > you'd have one! > Ken > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian > Einfeldt > > > >> wrote: > > hi, > > My employer has said I am going to be able > to move my work > computer > to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft > Windows. The machine is from > 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to > have to boot off of > a USB > stick. More precisely, I am planning to > use my Android phone > (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does > that seem unwise to > anyone? I carry my Android phone with me > everywhere, so I > thought > it would be nice to always have a Linux > distro with me > everywhere > without having to carry a separate USB > stick. I plan to use > Ububntu > 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows > XP hard drive, > and then > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in > advance. > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > > Information about SF-LUG is at > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > ______________________________ > _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > > Information about SF-LUG is at > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > > www.teachmetomake.com > > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > > > Interested in classes? Join > http://groups.google.com/ > group/teach-me-to-make > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 16:43:59 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 16:43:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <1317771504.1819.5.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> <1317771504.1819.5.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <4E8B9A3F.4030202@michaelshiloh.com> that would be the place to put the writeup, and then i'll bring it to the attention of the make bloggers On 10/04/2011 04:38 PM, jim wrote: > > > can we post it on the SF-LUG site, too? > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 15:53 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: >> The usb live setup is a small part of a much larger general usb stick >> writeup I have. I'll send it to you >> and you can post the link back here. I've been meaning to get it >> posted for at least a year, but always found things to change! >> Ken >> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Shiloh >> wrote: >> Brilliant! So you have found a way to recycle what the average >> consumer would consider too small and thus useless memory >> cards. Bravo! >> >> Is there a writeup? I would post this to the MAKE blog. >> >> >> On 10/04/2011 01:34 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: >> >> Hi Michael, >> These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold >> by Cyberguys for >> 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on >> Amazon with the >> right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, >> since they do not >> claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie >> gave me seems to >> read OK, haven't had time to try using it for >> anything. >> I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, >> so I can label the >> ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. >> Also, change the >> heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M >> (and in the future >> will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). >> Ken >> >> On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >> >> > > wrote: >> >> this sounds good. where can i buy one? >> >> is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash >> Drive from ZAReason >> (and other similar sources)? >> >> >> On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: >> >> Hi Christian, >> How about a little rubber usb penguin which >> attaches to your phone? >> It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots >> up in 45 >> seconds, and >> had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT >> writeable too). If >> you'd >> attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, >> you'd have one! >> Ken >> >> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian >> Einfeldt >> >> >> > >> wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> My employer has said I am going to be able >> to move my work >> computer >> to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft >> Windows. The machine is from >> 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to >> have to boot off of >> a USB >> stick. More precisely, I am planning to >> use my Android phone >> (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does >> that seem unwise to >> anyone? I carry my Android phone with me >> everywhere, so I >> thought >> it would be nice to always have a Linux >> distro with me >> everywhere >> without having to carry a separate USB >> stick. I plan to use >> Ububntu >> 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows >> XP hard drive, >> and then >> move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in >> advance. >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> >> > > >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> >> Information about SF-LUG is at >> http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ >> _________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> >> Information about SF-LUG is at >> http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> -- >> Michael Shiloh >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> KA6RCQ >> >> www.teachmetomake.com >> >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> >> >> Interested in classes? Join >> http://groups.google.com/ >> group/teach-me-to-make >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> Information about SF-LUG is at >> http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Tue Oct 4 17:35:38 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 17:35:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu on a stick In-Reply-To: <1317771504.1819.5.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <4E8B41F6.8030103@gmail.com> <4E8B6ECD.6030607@michaelshiloh.com> <1317771504.1819.5.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: Sure, I'll send it to you. Ken On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:38 PM, jim wrote: > > > can we post it on the SF-LUG site, too? > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 15:53 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > The usb live setup is a small part of a much larger general usb stick > > writeup I have. I'll send it to you > > and you can post the link back here. I've been meaning to get it > > posted for at least a year, but always found things to change! > > Ken > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:38 PM, Michael Shiloh > > wrote: > > Brilliant! So you have found a way to recycle what the average > > consumer would consider too small and thus useless memory > > cards. Bravo! > > > > Is there a writeup? I would post this to the MAKE blog. > > > > > > On 10/04/2011 01:34 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > These little penguins are just micro SD readers, sold > > by Cyberguys for > > 0.99 in their clearance section -- they do turn up on > > Amazon with the > > right search too. I put 2G micro SD cards into them, > > since they do not > > claim SDHC support, but the 4G micro SD card Bobbie > > gave me seems to > > read OK, haven't had time to try using it for > > anything. > > I do partition them into a FAT and ext2 partition, > > so I can label the > > ext2 partition "casper-rw" and have a writeable part. > > Also, change the > > heads=4, sectors/track=16, and move the start to 4M > > (and in the future > > will put the second partition at a 4M boundary too). > > Ken > > > > On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > > > > > > wrote: > > > > this sounds good. where can i buy one? > > > > is it basically the same as the Ubuntu USB Flash > > Drive from ZAReason > > (and other similar sources)? > > > > > > On 10/04/2011 10:14 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > > > Hi Christian, > > How about a little rubber usb penguin which > > attaches to your phone? > > It's set up with Ubuntu 10.04 live media, boots > > up in 45 > > seconds, and > > had about 600M ext2 writeable (and some FAT > > writeable too). If > > you'd > > attended one of the last two SFUG meetings, > > you'd have one! > > Ken > > > > On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Christian > > Einfeldt > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > hi, > > > > My employer has said I am going to be able > > to move my work > > computer > > to a dual-boot Linux and Microsoft > > Windows. The machine is from > > 2010 and has no CD-ROM, so I am going to > > have to boot off of > > a USB > > stick. More precisely, I am planning to > > use my Android phone > > (Motorola Droid 3) as the USB stick. Does > > that seem unwise to > > anyone? I carry my Android phone with me > > everywhere, so I > > thought > > it would be nice to always have a Linux > > distro with me > > everywhere > > without having to carry a separate USB > > stick. I plan to use > > Ububntu > > 10.04, download it to the Microsoft Windows > > XP hard drive, > > and then > > move it to the Motorola Droid 3. Thx in > > advance. > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > _________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > > > > > > > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > > Information about SF-LUG is at > > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ > > _________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > > Information about SF-LUG is at > > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > -- > > Michael Shiloh > > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > > KA6RCQ > > > > www.teachmetomake.com > > > > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > > > > > > Interested in classes? Join > > http://groups.google.com/ > > group/teach-me-to-make > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________ _________________ > > > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > > > Information about SF-LUG is at > > http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:23:39 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:23:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server Message-ID: Hi, I currently work at a Microsoft Windows shop. My employer uses some sort of Microsoft Windows server virtualized, so that we have the option of accessing our client data files through a remote server. We have staff who work from home, one of whom is on a Mac, and that person is able to access the Microsoft Windows display from her Mac laptop. This technology is described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol I am using Ubuntu 10.04 v3 to access the Internet at work. I was recently given permission to dual boot my machine with 10.04 and Microsoft Windows XP, because of this new virtualized Microsoft server. I am not able to access the server. I would like to get some help with this, so that I can start using Ubuntu as my main OS environment, and the Windows environment as number 2. I have been able to access the virtualized server from my Microsoft Windows XP partitiion. The process is to enter a local domain and IP address. You are then taken to a graphical user splash screen, where you enter a username and password via the remote desktop software Microsoft bundles with XP. You then have full access to all of the Microsoft Windows programs that I am required to use as part of my job, such as Filemaker. Under Ubuntu 10.04, I used the Terminal Server Client program that appears in my Applications > Internet pull down menu in the top left hand corner. It was able to give me the graphical user splash screen where I entered my username and password. At that point, it told me that I had a wrong user name and password. I called our law firm's tech support, and they told me that I am using the correct username and password. Here is a discussion of the software that I am using, and a recommendation as to how to use it. There are no tips there for dealing with this problem. http://www.watchingthenet.com/how-to-connect-to-a-windows-terminal-server-from-ubuntu.html I have found that this thread has lots of information worth looking at, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428 Particularly, this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428/comments/23 I had been having display problems, in which the connection would appear to not be made at all. I went to the Display tab, and changed my colors to 256 and my Remote Desktop Size to operate in full screen mode, after which I got a graphical user interface where I could enter my username and password. Also, under the Local Resources tab, I turned off sound by clicking on the Do Not Play sound button. Under the Performance tab, I placed a check mark in the box for enable bitmap chaching and enable window manager's key bindings and attach to console. I have tried to install all of the apps that are available through Synaptic, but no luck. Any help is appreciated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:39:30 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:39:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi, I forgot to add that when I log into the server from a Microsoft Windows XP environment, the username and password are correct. But when I use the same username and password under 10.04, I get an error message saying that it is incorrect. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > > I currently work at a Microsoft Windows shop. My employer uses some sort > of Microsoft Windows server virtualized, so that we have the option of > accessing our client data files through a remote server. We have staff who > work from home, one of whom is on a Mac, and that person is able to access > the Microsoft Windows display from her Mac laptop. This technology is > described here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol > > I am using Ubuntu 10.04 v3 to access the Internet at work. I was recently > given permission to dual boot my machine with 10.04 and Microsoft Windows > XP, because of this new virtualized Microsoft server. I am not able to > access the server. I would like to get some help with this, so that I can > start using Ubuntu as my main OS environment, and the Windows environment as > number 2. > > I have been able to access the virtualized server from my Microsoft Windows > XP partitiion. The process is to enter a local domain and IP address. You > are then taken to a graphical user splash screen, where you enter a username > and password via the remote desktop software Microsoft bundles with XP. You > then have full access to all of the Microsoft Windows programs that I am > required to use as part of my job, such as Filemaker. > > Under Ubuntu 10.04, I used the Terminal Server Client program that appears > in my Applications > Internet pull down menu in the top left hand corner. > It was able to give me the graphical user splash screen where I entered my > username and password. At that point, it told me that I had a wrong user > name and password. I called our law firm's tech support, and they told me > that I am using the correct username and password. > > Here is a discussion of the software that I am using, and a recommendation > as to how to use it. There are no tips there for dealing with this > problem. > > > http://www.watchingthenet.com/how-to-connect-to-a-windows-terminal-server-from-ubuntu.html > > I have found that this thread has lots of information worth looking at, > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428 > > Particularly, this: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428/comments/23 > > I had been having display problems, in which the connection would appear to > not be made at all. I went to the Display tab, and changed my colors to 256 > and my Remote Desktop Size to operate in full screen mode, after which I got > a graphical user interface where I could enter my username and password. > Also, under the Local Resources tab, I turned off sound by clicking on the > Do Not Play sound button. Under the Performance tab, I placed a check mark > in the box for enable bitmap chaching and enable window manager's key > bindings and attach to console. > > I have tried to install all of the apps that are available through > Synaptic, but no luck. > > Any help is appreciated. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 12:43:57 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 12:43:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I currently work at a Microsoft Windows shop. My employer uses some sort of > Microsoft Windows server virtualized, so that we have the option of > accessing our client data files through a remote server. We have staff who > work from home, one of whom is on a Mac, and that person is able to access > the Microsoft Windows display from her Mac laptop. This technology is > described here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol Yeah, RDP's useful. I use /usr/bin/rdesktop, via a tiny shell script I've created and given the same name: $ cat /home/rmoen/bin/rdesktop rdesktop -u rick -g 1280x1024 -a 16 -k en-us 10.92.6.52 & $ The options are: username = rick graphics resolution = 1280x1024 at colour level of = 16 bits/pixel (aka 65536 colours) keyboard map = English, US '10.92.6.52' is the target IP address, and the '&' backgrounds the script and gives me my prompt back. > Under Ubuntu 10.04, I used the Terminal Server Client program that appears > in my Applications > Internet pull down menu in the top left hand corner. > It was able to give me the graphical user splash screen where I entered my > username and password. Eh. I personally never really cared for 'Terminal Server Client'. By the way, the Ubuntistas are going to replace that thing using Remmina as of their next release. From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:47:08 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:47:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:51:02 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:51:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: KDE, Gnome3 and Unity (yes, all Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <4E8695DD.3050308@gmail.com> References: <4E8695DD.3050308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4E8CB526.5000206@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 12:54:43 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 12:54:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 13:32:41 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 13:32:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> References: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ehud Kaldor (ehud.kaldor at gmail.com): > just to add a note about domains: there is a tag to take domains (-d) > but i had issues using it. you can, instead, have it as part of the > username, with 2 backslashes between (one backslash is the MS domain > standard, but you need to put one more in the command to escape), so: > \\ Yeah, I was vaguely remembering something about that, but hadn't bothered to consult the manpage. It's possible that lack of an MS domain specifier might be Christian's problem. (Unclear, but possible.) I believe the syntax is actually 'domain\user'. Not documented on the manpage, FWIW. From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:44:52 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 13:44:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, Thanks for your help. More comments in line below... On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:47 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > why not just launch rdesktop from command line? i find it better performing > than the multi-connection terminal service thingie. > > if you don't have issues with keeping the password clear, you can set it as > a bash file to run. the command will be: > rdesktop -u \\ -p > > adding -f at the end will open in full screen. adding -g x > will open with given screen geometry. > Here is what I got (username and passwords changed to protect the innocent): cje at cje-desktop:~$ rdesktop 173.164.165.195 -u stolllaw\\rastaman -p foobar -g 1024x768 Autoselected keyboard map en-us disconnect: Internal licensing error. cje at cje-desktop:~$ Googling, I see a solution offered here, but it looks fairly scary to me, as I don't know what it means, and it looks serious, and I am not sure what would happen if I try it. Is it safe for me to do it? sudo chown root:root ~/.rdesktop sudo chmod 500 ~/.rdesktop http://dragly.org/2010/08/31/internal-licensing-error/ which is discussed here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428/comments/27 and here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428/comments/28 The tech support guys suggested that I might be able to solve the problem by updating to the latest version of Terminal Server Client, as they believe that RDPv5 is old. I went to synaptic and clicked on the updates, but no luck. Is there an apt-get way or CLI way of finding out if if I have the most recent version of RDP and getting the most recent version? thanks to everyone for your help! > note that if you have all login components (user, pass) it would log you in > automatically. if you leave the password out, it will fill the user for you > and you will need to enter password. leaving both out will require you to > fill them both, just as if you are sitting in front of the server. > Thank you, Ehud > > > On 10/05/2011 12:39 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > hi, > > > > I forgot to add that when I log into the server from a Microsoft Windows > XP environment, the username and password are correct. But when I use the > same username and password under 10.04, I get an error message saying that > it is incorrect. > > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I currently work at a Microsoft Windows shop. My employer uses some sort > of Microsoft Windows server virtualized, so that we have the option of > accessing our client data files through a remote server. We have staff who > work from home, one of whom is on a Mac, and that person is able to access > the Microsoft Windows display from her Mac laptop. This technology is > described here: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol > > > > I am using Ubuntu 10.04 v3 to access the Internet at work. I was recently > given permission to dual boot my machine with 10.04 and Microsoft Windows > XP, because of this new virtualized Microsoft server. I am not able to > access the server. I would like to get some help with this, so that I can > start using Ubuntu as my main OS environment, and the Windows environment as > number 2. > > > > I have been able to access the virtualized server from my Microsoft > Windows XP partitiion. The process is to enter a local domain and IP > address. You are then taken to a graphical user splash screen, where you > enter a username and password via the remote desktop software Microsoft > bundles with XP. You then have full access to all of the Microsoft Windows > programs that I am required to use as part of my job, such as Filemaker. > > > > Under Ubuntu 10.04, I used the Terminal Server Client program that > appears in my Applications > Internet pull down menu in the top left hand > corner. It was able to give me the graphical user splash screen where I > entered my username and password. At that point, it told me that I had a > wrong user name and password. I called our law firm's tech support, and they > told me that I am using the correct username and password. > > > > Here is a discussion of the software that I am using, and a > recommendation as to how to use it. There are no tips there for dealing with > this problem. > > > > > http://www.watchingthenet.com/how-to-connect-to-a-windows-terminal-server-from-ubuntu.html > > > > I have found that this thread has lots of information worth looking at, > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428 > > > > Particularly, this: > > > > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tsclient/+bug/181428/comments/23 > > > > I had been having display problems, in which the connection would appear > to not be made at all. I went to the Display tab, and changed my colors to > 256 and my Remote Desktop Size to operate in full screen mode, after which I > got a graphical user interface where I could enter my username and password. > Also, under the Local Resources tab, I turned off sound by clicking on the > Do Not Play sound button. Under the Performance tab, I placed a check mark > in the box for enable bitmap chaching and enable window manager's key > bindings and attach to console. > > > > I have tried to install all of the apps that are available through > Synaptic, but no luck. > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:46:11 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 13:46:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: hi, On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ehud Kaldor (ehud.kaldor at gmail.com): > > > just to add a note about domains: there is a tag to take domains (-d) > > but i had issues using it. you can, instead, have it as part of the > > username, with 2 backslashes between (one backslash is the MS domain > > standard, but you need to put one more in the command to escape), so: > > \\ > > Yeah, I was vaguely remembering something about that, but hadn't > bothered to consult the manpage. It's possible that lack of an MS > domain specifier might be Christian's problem. (Unclear, but possible.) > > I believe the syntax is actually 'domain\user'. Not documented on the > manpage, FWIW. > I got the same result using \ as opposed to \\ cje at cje-desktop:~$ rdesktop 173.164.165.195 -u stolllaw\rastaman -p foobar -g 1024x768 Autoselected keyboard map en-us disconnect: Internal licensing error. cje at cje-desktop:~$ Thanks again to everyone for your help -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 13:56:10 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 13:56:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, The tech support guys think that Ubuntu is not reporting the text information in the password and username fields correctly to Microsoft Windows, due to the fact that RDPv5 is not the most recent version. As I said a moment ago, he suggests that I try to update Terminal Services Client in 10.04, but I am not sure how to do that, since I have already updated it with Synaptic. Am I going to have to update to 11.04 to update RDP? I would rather stay with 10.04, because I am more comfy with the tried and true LTS, rather than the bleeding edge. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 14:14:19 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 14:14:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E8CC8AB.7080200@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonstone at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 14:32:06 2011 From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:32:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111005194357.GG16156@linuxmafia.com> <4E8CB603.5080608@gmail.com> <20111005203241.GL26383@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > > I believe the syntax is actually 'domain\user'. Not documented on the > manpage, FWIW. > This is correct. From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 14:37:03 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:37:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi, Thanks for your help... On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM, jason stone wrote: > Hi Christian > > What version of Terminal Services Client are you using? > tsclient -v > cje at cje-desktop:~$ tsclient -v Terminal Server Client for GNOME a frontend for rdesktop tsclient version 0.150 cje at cje-desktop:~$ > I would suggest that you try connecting with tsclient with minimal > information plugged into the interface. I only put in the information approved by our tech support guys. > What version of Windows are you connecting to? > Not sure. The virtual server was just recently installed, less than 60 days. So it is probably relatively current. Many of the end users in the office are using Microsoft Windows 7. My machine is dual-booted with XP and 10.04 Thx again to everyone for your help. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jasonstone at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 14:44:21 2011 From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:44:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > cje at cje-desktop:~$ tsclient -v > ? Terminal Server Client for GNOME > ? a frontend for rdesktop > ? tsclient version 0.150 > cje at cje-desktop:~$ OK. This is up to date for Lucid. >> >> I would suggest that you try connecting with tsclient with minimal >> information plugged into the interface. > > I only put in the information approved by our tech support guys. Indeed. I put in place holders-- I'm not sure what your user or server names are and you should replace my examples with your own. My suggestion is not putting in much information in the interface and then putting in your details when prompted at the MS Windows login prompt. >> >> What version of Windows are you connecting to? > > Not sure. ?The virtual server was just recently installed, less than 60 > days. ?So it is probably relatively current. ?Many of the end users in the > office are using Microsoft Windows 7. ?My machine is dual-booted with XP and > 10.04 The version of Windows that you are connecting to may very well make a difference. Dual booting should not. I've used tsclient in a couple different MS environments without issue. Please note that if you still have custom rdesktop configs in place, they can interfere with tsclient since tsclient depends on rdesktop. -jason From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 14:51:08 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 14:51:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi, On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM, jason stone wrote: > What version of Windows are you connecting to? > Microsoft Windows 2008 R2 standard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 15:10:50 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:10:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > The tech support guys suggested that I might be able to solve the > problem by updating to the latest version of Terminal Server Client, > as they believe that RDPv5 is old. The open source Unix 'rdesktop' utility supports RDP protocol versions 4 and 5, as of rdesktop v. 1.7.0.[0] tsclient ('Terminal Server Client'), that GNOME thing you've been trying to use, turns out to be just a bloatware graphical front-end for rdesktop, for VNC, for Citrix ICA, and for X11 via Xnest. The other open-source RDP client is 'FreeRDP', which forked from rdesktop and switched from GPL to Apache licensing. (Remmina, which I mentioned earlier, is a GTK+ graphical front-end for FreeRDP.) Like rdesktop, FreeRDP doesn't yet claim to support anything beyond the RDPv5 protocol suite. They claim that they're trying to 'add features missing from rdesktop', but my impression is that they don't yet have their act together, and their documentation is woefully lacking. (After the fork, rdesktop itself moved from GPLv2 to GPLv3.) On the server end, later versions of the protocol started being introduced starting with Windows Server 2003. Since RDP is a proprietary Redmondian thing, I'm pretty sure they've done their usual shtick of refusing to openly document the protocol, revealing the protocol specs only under NDA and attempting to shut out open source implementations. Ask the technical support guys what software you're attempting to connect _to_[1], e.g., Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2008 R2, Server 2008 R2 SP1. In theory, one might be able to look up protocol support for whatever software it is, though I'm not sure offhand where to look. Possibly useful in that area is the note on the Wikipedia page about RDP that says 'RDP 6.1 client and RDP 7.0 client are not supported on Windows Server 2003 x86 and Windows Server 2003 / Windows XP Professional x64 editions.' (The fact that the tech support guys said only 'Oh, you should try updating tsclient, because RDPv5 is old' suggests they're a bit clueless or at best apathetic.) Welcome to the proprietary protocol treadmill. My best suggestion would be to check out the svn head version of the rdesktop development code, compile it, and see if that works, which it might -- who knows? Relatively easy way: 1. Go to http://rdesktop.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rdesktop/ and pick the 'Download GNU tarball' link. This puts rdesktop.tar.gz wherever you have your browser put downloaded files. (Personally, I use /tmp.) 2. Unpack and go to the correct subdirectory. $ cd /tmp $ tar xzf rdesktop.tar.gz $ cd rdesktop/rdesktop/trunk 3. Install build dependencies and compilation tools: You'll need to have tools and dependencies installed sufficient to compile rdesktop. These packages: libx11-dev autoconf build-essential libssl-dev 4. Configure source code and compile $ autoconf $ ./configure $ make 5. Install software (default install target should be /usr/local/bin for the program binaries, and other places under /usr/local $ sudo make install 6. Run it, making sure you run the -right- one: $ /usr/local/bin/rdesktop -u einfeldt [...] I stress 'the right one' because you probably also have /usr/bin/rdesktop. Try that. If that works, then keep it and get rid of the packaged version. [0] Unfortunately, this is true even of the development head version, as shown here: http://rdesktop.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rdesktop/rdesktop/trunk/README?revision=1611&view=markup http://rdesktop.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/rdesktop/rdesktop/trunk/README?revision=1611&view=markup [1] You said only 'some sort of Microsoft Windows server', which is, as an old boss of mine used to say, 'almost useful'. ;-> From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 15:24:26 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:24:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111005222426.GM16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com): > Try that. If that works, then keep it and get rid of the packaged > version. Oh, and also try this: Quit rdesktop / tsclient / whatever. Then: $ cd $ mv .rdesktop .rdesktop-old Then try again. Sometimes, setting in the ~/.rdesktop directory can apparently be a problem, so reverting to defaults may help. From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 15:26:07 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:26:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: hi, Thanks for your detailed answer! More comments in line below... On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > > > The tech support guys suggested that I might be able to solve the > > problem by updating to the latest version of Terminal Server Client, > > as they believe that RDPv5 is old. > > The open source Unix 'rdesktop' utility supports RDP protocol versions > 4 and 5, as of rdesktop v. 1.7.0.[0] > Ask the technical support guys what software you're attempting to > connect _to_[1], e.g., Windows Server 2003, Windows Server 2008, Windows > Server 2008 R2, I am told that we are using Windows Server 2008 R2 standard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 15:37:03 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:37:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111005223703.GN16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I am told that we are using Windows Server 2008 R2 standard Yes, saw that after I posted. (As you might imagine, drafting that one took a while, and several people including you posted more in the interval.) As I already said, that increases the likelihood that your basic problem is protocol support in the production copy of rdesktop you're using (with or without the bloatware GNOME front-end thing). So, my suggestion is as stated: Compile the trunk version of rdesktop, and see if it works. Also, mv the ~/.rdesktop subdirectory out of the way. If that doesn't work, give up and try a completely different approach. From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Wed Oct 5 15:56:23 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 18:56:23 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Maybe it really is a licensing issue! Microsoft in the past (90s) has demonstrated that its licensing manager cannot count clients (which need a client license to connect to any server) according to the EULA's rules. Your dual boot may be taking up an extra client license, even though the EULA makes it clear that it should be counting machines, not OSes installed on these machines and not users. "Extra" unique USER/OS/HOST combinations used to only trigger a "you need to purchase more licenses" complaint, but I can imagine that could be changed to a connection refusal at any time. How many client licenses does your server have? Do you have a backup server which, worst case if you select the wrong license, may take another license? If this is still an issue, does your sysadmin know how to handle it? (No you shouldn't have to buy any more licenses!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 16:02:18 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:02:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111005230217.GO16156@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > Like rdesktop, FreeRDP doesn't yet claim to support anything beyond > the RDPv5 protocol suite. They claim that they're trying to 'add > features missing from rdesktop', but my impression is that they don't > yet have their act together, and their documentation is woefully > lacking. (After the fork, rdesktop itself moved from GPLv2 to GPLv3.) The maintainer of FreeRDP tells an interesting tale: In my case, the developers of rdesktop are simply putting big breaks on contributions and are not very actively developing anything. This is why rdesktop only supports old versions of RDP and lacks a lot of the new features that have been introduced over the years. The guy owning the project own a company that makes a proprietary front-end to rdesktop, and they do not accept contributions unless they're really small patches that only fix a problem. The major problem is that in order to support the new features of RDP, major changes in the design of rdesktop are required, which is something they would never accept. Forking was the only solution to be able to make all those changes. (That's from the Google cache of a Web forum that's currently offline.) Long and somewhat unhappy discussion about the fork here: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.network.rdesktop.devel/3386 Which reminds me of the other thing I'd do in your shoes before giving up (for now) on open source RDP to your firm's Windows Server 2008 R2 machine: Try FreeRDP (and, if you're stubborn about it, compile the head version of its source code and try that, too). _Then_ give up and try some entirely different approach. ;-> From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 5 16:09:08 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2011 16:09:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ken Shaffer (kenshaffer80 at gmail.com): > Maybe it really is a licensing issue! That's actually why I suggested mv'ing the .rdesktop directory. Details here: http://wikis.ece.iastate.edu/it/index.php/Rdesktop_Internal_licensing_error Quoting: 'There is a license file [~/.rdesktop/license*] that gets created when using rdesktop. At some point Microsoft changed their remote desktop authentication, so you need to remove the license file each time before starting rdesktop.' > Your dual boot may be taking up an extra client license, even though the > EULA makes it clear that it should be counting machines, not OSes installed > on these machines and not users. In that case, the IT drones should have been able to advise Christian that he was making the Windows Server box hit its connection limits. I note that's not what he said. From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Thu Oct 6 10:01:14 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:01:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday 2011-10-02 Message-ID: <4E8DDEDA.6040003@dslextreme.com> Bobbie(myself), John Strazzino, Ken Schaeffer and wife, Jim Stockford. were the only attendees. I was wearing my Penguin Painter tee shit from a small shop in Nihon Machi, SF and my new penguin stuffed toy 3 inches high was on the table as well as several computer catalogues and Linux Pro's latest issue. Drivers report greater than usual parking problems, perhaps due to the event being held in Golden Gate Park. Jim had used a paid lot. Strazzino has a fresh used Dell Latitude that will not boot from the USB port. I demoed the late distro, Koppix 6.7 which was the DOM for Linux Pro issue 130 and which I had put on an 8 GiB usb stick on my old Compaq CQ60-215DX. It uses LDXE as a window manager. It has lots of tools including some that I use every day on Mandriva. John showed off the Dell Latitude which is one of the heavier build machines which he got at an unreasonably low price from San Mateo County. I showed off the LibreOffice which I had added to the Mandriva install over the weekend. It involves downloading 3 files, the executable install file, the help file and a very small text file that informs you of exactly the commands you need to use to install. I copied them from the file to my root shell to do the install and everything went smoothly. I would advise other users to migrate to this tool. Afterward I called up the MCC* from the root shell and cleaned out my Open Office install as well as a bunch of other orphaned files. LibreOffice was fully installed with all modules listed in the menus. *MCC stands for Mandriva Control Center which lets you do lots of things with your installation of Mandriva including setting up graphics, partitioning Disks and Media, managing user accounts, setting up vital peripherals like printers and scanners, net-work connection and Installing and removing software. The Knoppix 6.7 disk has a utility for writing the disk to a medium. Though the Disk shows 3.7 GiB a 4 GiB micro-SD card was not large enough. so I used my SanDisk 8 GiB Cruzer and the install to this media did not take long. This in in contrast to the attempt on the 4 GiB where it took forever and churned out a log file of what it could not install due to lack of space. The Knoppix 6.7 included the LibreOffice so I got to look at it and was able with Knoppix to load my old OO files from my home directory on the disk. LO looks a bit less cluttered than the OO interface. I was inspired by my look at the LO to go ahead and change my word processor on my computer. Sadly we were not able to help John much with the Latitude. All in all we had a very good if small meeting. Sorry it took me so long to get the report in but I had a lot to do earlier this week. Bobbie Sellers From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Oct 6 11:50:28 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 11:50:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday 2011-10-02 In-Reply-To: <4E8DDEDA.6040003@dslextreme.com> References: <4E8DDEDA.6040003@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <20111006185027.GC7965@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com): > I demoed the late distro, Koppix 6.7 which was the DOM for > Linux Pro issue 130 and which I had put on an 8 GiB usb stick on > my old Compaq CQ60-215DX. It uses LDXE as a window manager. Quibble: LXDE is _not_ a window manager, but rather a desktop environment (DE). The window manager almost always used _within_ LXDE is Openbox -- but you can use any other window manager, e.g., icewm, metacity, fluxbox, etc., and it'd still be LXDE. The difference between a DE and a WM is worth understanding, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Environment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager Let me illustrate further: I generally prefer Window Maker as a window manager. Window Maker is generally compiled with hooks to let it function smoothly within the GNOME desktop environment as its WM (instead of the GNOME WM du jour, which these days tends to be metacity or Compiz). However, nothing forces the five-course meal down your throat: You can have the WM a la carte, instead. (Basically, all you need to do is turn off the X11 session manager, and restart.) A useful taxonomy of DEs and WMs: http://xwinman.org/ Of the common DEs, LXDE is by far the most lightweight (relative to GNOME, KDE, and Xfce). I like Xfce because it's relatively sparse and doesn't launch a forest of mostly unwanted processes the way KDE and GNOME do, but have to admit that it sucks RAM about as much as GNOME does. From einfeldt at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 18:35:27 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 18:35:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Hi, I am very happy to say that i have been able to access the Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 standard from Ubuntu 10.04, by following Rick's link below! Thanks Rick! On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:09 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Ken Shaffer (kenshaffer80 at gmail.com): > > > Maybe it really is a licensing issue! > > That's actually why I suggested mv'ing the .rdesktop directory. > Details here: > http://wikis.ece.iastate.edu/it/index.php/Rdesktop_Internal_licensing_error > > Here is the output: cje at cje-desktop:~$ rdesktop 173.164.165.195 -u stolllaw\rastaman -p foobar -g 1024x768 Autoselected keyboard map en-us disconnect: Internal licensing error. cje at cje-desktop:~$ rm ~/.rdesktop/licence* && rdesktop rds.otherlawfirm.com Autoselected keyboard map en-us WARNING: Remote desktop does not support colour depth 24; falling back to 16 While that might not look like much, it is a big deal, because I was able to enter my username and password and get into Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2! woo-hoo! For 10 years now, I have been wanting to get Microsoft Windows to operate as a Window in Linux. I have seen it done in various ways, such as virtualbox, but I have never done it in a commercial setting such as I did today. From 2001 to 2009, I operated my own law firm, and I used only Linux to do my work. Then in 2009, I joined another law firm, and I have been having to use Microsoft Windows, and I have been really chafing under Microsoft. Now, I no longer am forced to use an operating system that I do not want to use; or, put another way, I can at least go directly to GNU-Linux for some of my work, and just use Microsoft Windows for the tasks that I am required to use it for! The only problem is that the window in which Microsoft Windows appears is rather small. I have taken a screenshot that I could post somewhere, but I seem to recall that this email list strips attachments. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could share a screenshot? Thanks again to everyone for helping me use the operating system of my choice. It means a lot to me to have that freedom of choice. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 18:58:32 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 18:58:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Hi, I figured out how to resize the window containing Microsoft Windows to a bigger size: cje at cje-desktop:~$ rm ~/.rdesktop/licence* && rdesktop rds.otherlawfirm.com-g 1152x864 Autoselected keyboard map en-us WARNING: Remote desktop does not support colour depth 24; falling back to 16 just adding the -g for size followed by 1152x864 worked just fine! I am very happy now! Thanks again to everyone who helped! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Oct 6 19:08:58 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 19:08:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111007020858.GU26383@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I am very happy to say that i have been able to access the Microsoft Windows > Server 2008 R2 standard from Ubuntu 10.04, by following Rick's link below! > Thanks Rick! Coolness. If it's just the ~/.rdesktop/license-[hostname] file, you might use this as a semipermanent fix^W kludge: cd ~ # Go to your homedir mv .rdesktop .rdesktop-old # Rename that sucker, keep a backup touch .rdesktop # Create a zero-length file of the same name That prevents rdesktop from creating a ~/.rdesktop subdirectory as long as that zero-length file is there, and incidentally prevents creation of any ~/.rdesktop/license-[hostname] file there. Tip is mentioned at: http://www.gla.ac.uk/services/it/forstudents/remotedesktopservice/issues/ It is _implied_ that this method prevents you from having to repeatedly delete the license-[hostname] file, every time you want to connect again. Uncomfirmed. _Or_ -- better -- you can leave the .rdesktop directory alone and just use a wrapper shell script for rdesktop that deletes the license-* file when necessary. That's what I do in the script detailed below. > cje at cje-desktop:~$ rdesktop 173.164.165.195 -u stolllaw\rastaman -p foobar > -g 1024x768 > Autoselected keyboard map en-us > disconnect: Internal licensing error. > cje at cje-desktop:~$ rm ~/.rdesktop/licence* && rdesktop rds.otherlawfirm.com > Autoselected keyboard map en-us > WARNING: Remote desktop does not support colour depth 24; falling back to 16 FYI, on the second invocation of rdesktop (above), you are using its compiled-in defaults for everything, which as you are finding out means it uses some dumb settings. In particular, it's defaulting to some pretty low resolution, judging from your comments about 'rather small'. Personally, I like to tell it an explicit resolution, colour depth, and keyboard map, right on the rdesktop command line: -g 1280x1024 -a 16 -k en-us I _don't_ mean type all that nonsense repeatedly. I mean put it all into a little shell script, and then use that shell script. $ cd ~ $ mkdir bin $ cd bin $ [$YOUR FAVOURITE EDITOR] go-rds Put the following into /home/cje/bin/go-rds: #!/bin/sh rm .rdesktop/license-* rdesktop -u stolllaw\rastaman -p foobar -g 1024x768 -a 16 -k en-us rds.otherlawfirm.com & Save. Exit. $ chmod u+x go-rds You can, if you wish, then create a GNOME launcher thingie that runs /home/cje/bin/go-rds. Congratulations: You just created a Linux executable program (i.e., your shell wrapper for rdesktop). > Now, I no longer am forced to use an operating system that > I do not want to use; or, put another way, I can at least go directly to > GNU-Linux for some of my work, and just use Microsoft Windows for the tasks > that I am required to use it for! Yeah, isn't that cool? Also, you don't even need to surrender the RAM and CPU to run MS-Windows locally, as you would using a virtual machine solution. Basicially, all of its resource demands, problems, and administration becomes Somebody Else's Problem. The two main scenarios where that doesn't work are: 1. You're mobile, so sometimes you lack the usable network access to the RDP server. 2. The RDP server is so locked down for security reasons that you are prevented from doing essential work. That's when you switch tactics and create a VM. > Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could share a screenshot? Put it onto one of the many free file-hosting services, and then post a URL? BTW, I don't know if Jim has this mailing list set up to _strip_ attachments (am just the guy who owns/underwrites/operates the server it runs on), but the real point is that posting attachments to mailing lists is just really bad netiquette except in unusual cases. So, as an Internet user, I would ask: Please don't. Thanks. > Thanks again to everyone for helping me use the operating system of my > choice. It means a lot to me to have that freedom of choice. :-) From einfeldt at gmail.com Thu Oct 6 19:20:55 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 19:20:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <20111007020858.GU26383@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> <20111005221050.GK16156@linuxmafia.com> <20111005230908.GP16156@linuxmafia.com> <20111007020858.GU26383@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 7:08 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > > > I am very happy to say that i have been able to access the Microsoft > Windows > > Server 2008 R2 standard from Ubuntu 10.04, by following Rick's link > below! > > Thanks Rick! > > Coolness. > > If it's just the ~/.rdesktop/license-[hostname] file, you might use this > as a semipermanent fix^W kludge: > Thanks for all of these tips, Rick! :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Thu Oct 6 21:53:36 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:53:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday 2011-10-02 In-Reply-To: <20111006185027.GC7965@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E8DDEDA.6040003@dslextreme.com> <20111006185027.GC7965@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E8E85D0.1010503@dslextreme.com> On 10/06/2011 11:50 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com): > >> I demoed the late distro, Koppix 6.7 which was the DOM for >> Linux Pro issue 130 and which I had put on an 8 GiB usb stick on >> my old Compaq CQ60-215DX. It uses LDXE as a window manager. > Quibble: LXDE is _not_ a window manager, but rather a desktop > environment (DE). The window manager almost always used _within_ LXDE > is Openbox -- but you can use any other window manager, e.g., icewm, > metacity, fluxbox, etc., and it'd still be LXDE. Thanks for the clarifications. Sorry if the list is seeing this late but when I do too much, I make mistakes such as sending this original reply only to Rick Moen. > The difference between a DE and a WM is worth understanding, I think. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Environment > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager > > Let me illustrate further: I generally prefer Window Maker as a window > manager. Window Maker is generally compiled with hooks to let it > function smoothly within the GNOME desktop environment as its WM > (instead of the GNOME WM du jour, which these days tends to be metacity > or Compiz). However, nothing forces the five-course meal down your > throat: You can have the WM a la carte, instead. (Basically, all you > need to do is turn off the X11 session manager, and restart.) Actually the Windows Manager on the Knoppix 6.7 is Compiz. It has a desktop effect when closing a Window that fractures the Window into fragments that seemed to wow Jim a bit. I suppose there is a way to turn off that effect but don't want to reboot to make sure of that until later in the week due to other activities. > > A useful taxonomy of DEs and WMs: > http://xwinman.org/ > > Of the common DEs, LXDE is by far the most lightweight (relative to > GNOME, KDE, and Xfce). I like Xfce because it's relatively sparse and > doesn't launch a forest of mostly unwanted processes the way KDE and > GNOME do, but have to admit that it sucks RAM about as much as GNOME > does. I think that the search for a less memory intensive Desktop Environment which can handle the adaptations that users may require and handle multiple screens/virtual desktops et al is rather self-defeating. The improved KDE is very demanding of memory and of processor cycles but is supposed to be less memory intensive than KDE 3.5.9. One point where the old KDE was ahead was the user's configuration tools. The plasma workspaces act as they please. I reboot and I end up with widgets on the main part of the screen as well as the task bar. Sometimes though the task bar disappears from all but one screen and I can expect to spend an hour or so cleaning up the mess. Part of the cleanup will be generating a new task bar that will automatically appear on all virtual desktops and deleting the old task bar. I don't like to reboot my computer much preferring to suspend to disk aka "Hibernate". A problem with this is that the system comes up without requiring any log in. bliss From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Oct 7 00:14:19 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2011 00:14:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday 2011-10-02 In-Reply-To: <4E8E85D0.1010503@dslextreme.com> References: <4E8DDEDA.6040003@dslextreme.com> <20111006185027.GC7965@linuxmafia.com> <4E8E85D0.1010503@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <20111007071418.GP7965@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com): > I think that the search for a less memory intensive > Desktop Environment which can handle the adaptations that users > may require and handle multiple screens/virtual desktops > et al is rather self-defeating. I hope you're aware that none of those things you cite in any way requires a DE. For example, people running the Window Maker window manager get all of them automatically. (It's considered a middle-weight WM, i.e., not as sparse and RAM-thrifty as Openbox, Fluxbox, etc., but far from being a hog.) For that matter, pretty much all 'adaptations' you might be able to cite can be easily furnished a la carte, _without_ needing a DE. Nothing against the DEs for people who actually want all of the functionality they bundle and want to run all of that stuff; my point is solely that the usual DE justifications rest squarely on a factual error. And, in many cases, on declining to bother thinking about what they comprise. From sverma at sfsu.edu Sun Oct 9 11:10:29 2011 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:10:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC San Francisco Community Summit 2011 Message-ID: Hello! The San Francisco volunteer community for One Laptop per Child project (http://olpcsf.org) is hosting the OLPC San Francisco Community Summit 2011 at the SF State University Downtown Center in San Francisco, on October 21,22 and 23. Registration is now open. Please pass this along to anyone who may be interested. Space is limited! Hear from people who work in the field on complex and complicated problems with education, technology and social outreach. At 2.2+ million laptops in 40+ countries in 35+ languages the project is growing every day addressing children and learning from the city of Birmingham, Alabama to the steppes of Tuva (where's Tuva, you ask? http://olpctuva.wordpress.com/). That's a whole lotta Tux, if you ask me :-) OLPC SF itself has fourteen projects with deployments in Afghanistan, Armenia, Haiti, Honduras, India, Jamaica, Madagascar, Pakistan, Philippines, Senegal, South Africa, Uganda, Tuva, and San Francisco. We put offline servers running on solar power in remote places to serve Wikipedia, TED videos, Commons music, dictionaries, books, etc. so that we can light a fire in different corners of the world [1] that are not on the Internet as yet [2]. Come and be part of something tremendous! http://olpcsf.org/summit cheers, Sameer -- Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Professor, Information Systems San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://olpcsf.org/ [1] My six year old daughter tells me that the world cannot have corners. Its round like a ball. Children truly rule the world. Investing in them is wise :-) [2] http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 11:48:39 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 11:48:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC San Francisco Community Summit 2011 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just registered myself. Looking forward to seeing you (and anyone else on the list attending) there. On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 11:10 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Hello! > > The San Francisco volunteer community for One Laptop per Child project > (http://olpcsf.org) is hosting the OLPC San Francisco Community Summit > 2011 at the SF State University Downtown Center in San Francisco, on > October 21,22 and 23. Registration is now open. Please pass this along > to anyone who may be interested. Space is limited! Hear from people > who work in the field on complex and complicated problems with > education, technology and social outreach. At 2.2+ million laptops in > 40+ countries in 35+ languages the project is growing every day > addressing children and learning from the city of Birmingham, Alabama > to the steppes of Tuva (where's Tuva, you ask? > http://olpctuva.wordpress.com/). That's a whole lotta Tux, if you ask > me :-) > > OLPC SF itself has fourteen projects with deployments in Afghanistan, > Armenia, Haiti, Honduras, India, Jamaica, Madagascar, Pakistan, > Philippines, Senegal, South Africa, Uganda, Tuva, and San Francisco. > We put offline servers running on solar power in remote places to > serve Wikipedia, TED videos, Commons music, dictionaries, books, etc. > so that we can light a fire in different corners of the world [1] that > are not on the Internet as yet [2]. > > Come and be part of something tremendous! http://olpcsf.org/summit > > cheers, > Sameer > -- > Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Professor, Information Systems > San Francisco State University > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://olpcsf.org/ > > [1] My six year old daughter tells me that the world cannot have > corners. Its round like a ball. Children truly rule the world. > Investing in them is wise :-) > [2] http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 15:24:37 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 15:24:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi, My comments are in line below. Basically, I have been able to access Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 in a window with the BASH command given below, but I would like to be able to toggle between full screen mode and the window once it is open, without having to go to the BASH shell. Does anyone know how to do this? Thx in advance rm ~/.rdesktop/licence* && rdesktop rds.otherlawfirm.com -g 1152x864 -a 16 -k en-us I tried googling toggle between full screen mode and a window in Ubuntu 10.04 opened from terminal and was taken to this page http://www.geertvancompernolle.be/myjoomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82:changing-some-settings-in-ubuntu-1004-lts&catid=2:linux&Itemid=18 which says that the terminal shell uses F11 by default to toggle between full screen and window mode, but that didn't seem to work for me. When I click on the window with the terminal shell, hitting F11 does indeed toggle between full screen mode and window mode, but the same is not true for the window which contains the Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 session. Instead, nothing at all happens when I am in the window mode with the Microsoft Windows Server 2008 session and I hit F11. I have poked around with other F keys, but no luck. Thanks in advance! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhigashi at gmail.com Sun Oct 9 19:36:28 2011 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:36:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > I tried googling > > toggle between full screen mode and a window in Ubuntu 10.04 opened from > terminal > Try these search terms instead: rdesktop toggle fullscreen Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Oct 9 19:50:09 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:50:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111010025009.GB10461@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I have been able to access Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 in a > window with the BASH command given below, but I would like to be able > to toggle between full screen mode and the window once it is open, > without having to go to the BASH shell. Does anyone know how to do > this? Er... you're specifying a fixed, specific resolution to rdesktop when opening your RDP connection, so that's what you're going to get. Any 'toggling' would have to be implemented both on the remote RDP-server end and in your xterm (or whatever you use), and implemented identically, at that. Think about it. You're asking for something for which no mechanism really could exist. By the way, bash has nothing particularly to do with this. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Oct 9 19:58:59 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 19:58:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111010025859.GC10461@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mike Higashi (mhigashi at gmail.com): > Try these search terms instead: > > rdesktop toggle fullscreen OK, I hadn't noticed the '-f' option. So, basically, -f starts rdesktop in fullscreen mode, and Ctrl-Alt-Enter is the toggle hotkey. I'll bet that that clashes clashes with a lot of window managers' keybindings, e.g., Compiz, and GNOME Shell. (Simple solution, of course: Don't use crummy window managers.) From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Oct 10 11:59:41 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 11:59:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: hi, On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Mike Higashi wrote: > On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > >> >> I tried googling >> >> toggle between full screen mode and a window in Ubuntu 10.04 opened from >> terminal >> > > > Try these search terms instead: > > rdesktop toggle fullscreen > That search term worked. It brought me to this page: http://www.manticmoo.com/articles/jeff/linux/rdesktop-fullscreen-mode.php which shows that just hitting cntrl-alt-enter works to bring it back and forth between full screen mode an window mode. The problem is that the Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 desktop is cut off at the bottom in window mode (but not in full screen mode). In other words, using full screen mode, I am able to access the Microsoft Windows "Start" button at the bottom, as well as the open apps at the bottom, but I don't have access to those things in window mode. Still, it is nice to be able to use the full size of the screen by simply toggling back and forth between full screen mode and window mode. Thanks again to everyone who helped! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Oct 10 21:42:58 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:42:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets next Monday October 17 Message-ID: <4E93C952.1050201@dslextreme.com> Hi LUGgers, SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 12:31:43 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:31:43 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for starting this thread Christian! I started playing around with my virtual XP and found it does the remote desktop very nicely, (with no license file nonsense). Sounds like your rdesktop invocation could use the -D to get rid of the window manager title to allow the Start button to be shown. With autohide or the hide buttons activated for your Gnome bottom panel, you should have a more usable system. Ctrl-esc also brings up the start button if it's hidden. I saw many of the same issues you did, the applications/internet/terminal server client ran fine with the RDPv5, but without the capability of turning on the backgrounds (-xl when running rdesktop), i didn't like it. The RDP had the background, but would try to restart 30sec after shutdown. Anther rdesktop argument you might try out is the -z to compress the RDP stream. I was surprised to see all the things I used to use Citrix for in the past. I also finally bit the bullet and removed my laptop Windows hard disk and replace it with my external Ubuntu disk, so it was good to still have the full screen Windows available (which I never got around to in the vmware player window). Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 12:57:23 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 12:57:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > I also finally bit the bullet and removed my laptop Windows hard disk and > replace it with my external Ubuntu disk, That is what it is about for me, always wedging in GNU-Linux wherever I can and always moving away from Microsoft Windows, even if it is only a centimeter at a time. I used no Microsoft Windows from 2001 to 2009, but then I went to work in an all-Microsoft Windows shop, and I had to hold my nose and use Microsoft Windows, but that doesn't mean I am not going to fight the borg every day every way that I can. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 11 15:35:44 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1318372544.24669.YahooMailRC@web83807.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sat Oct 15 18:53:47 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 18:53:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? Message-ID: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> So on "This Old House" they showed a demo of a 3D printer used by an architectural firm. The home owner works in the firm and turned out his own models of the 300 year old house they will be modifying and of course models of the modifications. Also shown were printed models of a crescent wrench and fully operational gear set all as they came from the printer. I think this will be run again on Tuesday night in the SF Bay Area on KTEH if anyone wants to see this demonstration. Bobbie Sellers From jim at systemateka.com Sat Oct 15 19:33:05 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:33:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? In-Reply-To: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> References: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Noisebridge has a few 3D printers. I don't know if there's a Linux control for them (a la CNC for mills). If you are interested in both Linux and 3D printers, come to Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings between 6 PM and 8 PM for the Linux discussion group. On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 18:53 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > So on "This Old House" they showed a demo > of a 3D printer used by an architectural firm. > The home owner works in the firm and turned out > his own models of the 300 year old house they will > be modifying and of course models of the modifications. > Also shown were printed models of a crescent wrench > and fully operational gear set all as they came from the > printer. > > I think this will be run again on Tuesday night in the SF > Bay Area on KTEH if anyone wants to see this demonstration. > > Bobbie Sellers > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 19:39:03 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 19:39:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? In-Reply-To: <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <4E9A43C7.2040402@gmail.com> isn't wednesday also 3d printer night? two birds with one stone. On 10/15/2011 07:33 PM, jim wrote: > > Noisebridge has a few 3D printers. I don't know if > there's a Linux control for them (a la CNC for mills). > > If you are interested in both Linux and 3D printers, > come to Noisebridge on Wednesday evenings between 6 PM > and 8 PM for the Linux discussion group. > > > > > On Sat, 2011-10-15 at 18:53 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote: >> So on "This Old House" they showed a demo >> of a 3D printer used by an architectural firm. >> The home owner works in the firm and turned out >> his own models of the 300 year old house they will >> be modifying and of course models of the modifications. >> Also shown were printed models of a crescent wrench >> and fully operational gear set all as they came from the >> printer. >> >> I think this will be run again on Tuesday night in the SF >> Bay Area on KTEH if anyone wants to see this demonstration. >> >> Bobbie Sellers >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From mhigashi at gmail.com Sat Oct 15 22:07:44 2011 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 22:07:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? In-Reply-To: <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 7:33 PM, jim wrote: > > ? ?Noisebridge has a few 3D printers. I don't know if > there's a Linux control for them (a la CNC for mills). The 3D printers at Noisebridge are the Cupcake model. They're controlled from an onboard Arduino board. You can use a Linux system to talk to the Arduino. Mike From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sun Oct 16 07:43:16 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 07:43:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? In-Reply-To: References: <4E9A392B.4000205@dslextreme.com> <1318732385.2307.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <4E9AED84.2090909@dslextreme.com> On 10/15/2011 10:07 PM, Mike Higashi wrote: > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 7:33 PM, jim wrote: >> Noisebridge has a few 3D printers. I don't know if >> there's a Linux control for them (a la CNC for mills). > The 3D printers at Noisebridge are the Cupcake model. They're > controlled from an onboard Arduino board. You can use a Linux > system to talk to the Arduino. > > Mike > Did this show up on the SF-LUG list? I seem to be getting stuff that I don't see on the list. Bobbie Sellers From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sun Oct 16 08:01:38 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:01:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Any interest in 3D printing? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9AF1D2.8020801@dslextreme.com> On 10/15/2011 11:33 PM, Eric P. Scott wrote: > Your timing was impeccable. ;-) > > Criminals find novel uses for 3D printing > > > -=EPS=- Indeed criminals find their own uses for any new tech that comes along and making hand cuff keys is novel certainly but the cuffs are made so that a hairpin could pick them. As for making parts of guns I would care to fire such weapon unless the part duplicated was the stock and the material used for printing out could equal wood in strength. As for receivers and other stressed metal parts there is a reason that they are usually made from high quality machined or forged steel. I doubt much that the sintered material used in the printers I have seen demoed are up to that strength. The exploit with the ATM card recording machine has been in use for years and the doing it by of a 3D printer saves a little time which is certainly a negligible advantage. If the stock used in the Printer could be recycled then we might have a very useful way to produce items used once and discarded. If it can be made with adequate strength then weapons used by criminals could be destroyed. Looks like credit/debit and passkey cards could be duplicated which could be used for lawful and unlawful purposes. You might want to look at the Super Notes story if you want to see what old tech is capable of. $100 bills with only 2 small imperfections which so far only specialized machines have been able to detect. The imperfection relate to two printed letters not being the proper distance apart and a color changing ink which deviates in performance from the standard. It is supposed to look green to black but instead is a green to magenta. Bobbie Sellers From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Sun Oct 16 14:33:16 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:33:16 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu 11.10, Oneiric Ocelot Installation Notes Message-ID: Ubuntu 11.10, Oneiric Ocelot Installation Notes The desktop ISO downloaded very quickly 1.9-2.0MB/sec on Oct 13. Used the 10.04 disk creator to install the ISO to a Kingston 2G micro SD card with a 1G fat partition and a 1G Linux partition. First boot of the card in a USB reader on an HP presario v3000 laptop resulted in only a movable cursor and a desktop background. Ctrl-Alt-t did not pop up a terminal window. Ctrl-Alt-F2 got me to a virtual terminal and I copied the open source Broadcom wireless firmware into /lib/firmware/b43-open. Switched back to the desktop background with Alt-f7 and more F11 and Ctrl-Alt-t commands to get a terminal failed to do anything. While moving the Bluetooth mouse to try to get it to connect, the launcher panel, toolbars, and two terminals suddenly showed up. The wireless connected with no problem. Note that the laptop used really needs the Nvidia drivers to run Unity at a reasonable speed, but seems to run the Unity-2d acceptably. Tried the additional drivers to get the Nvidia drivers ,but only the Broadcom STA driver was listed. (I needed to select some additional software sources). Next tried to connect the Bluetooth mouse, and the app window locked the system. Ctrl-Alt-F2, Ctrl-Alt-backsp, Ctrl-Alt-del, all did nothing. Powered off. Two minutes to boot to the desktop background, then 10 more seconds to get to the Unity interface -- much slower than the 45 sec for booting 10.04 on an identical card/USB. Set up the Bluetooth mouse, used [+] to get a new device. The window drag is really slow, the window trails the mouse and eventually catches up. System locked up again, except for being able to move the cursor. Booting on a netbook with the ra2860sta wireless worked fine. I put a config file into /etc/Wireless/RT2860STA/RT2860STA.dat, but not sure that the config is still needed. The rt2800pci driver now handles the chip nicely, so the staging driver, rt2860sta.ko, is no longer needed. Turned on software sources to try the Nvidia drivers again. Did not see them in the additional drivers list, but manually added a ppa and got the 285.05.09 driver. Later on, for a normal install, with the software sources set up properly, I had the Nvidia drivers listed in the additional drivers, but the "current" selection gets the 280... driver. Unity performance is much better with the Nvidia drivers, but still not as snappy as with Unity-2d. Guess I'll stick to the 2d interface for now. No more lockups were seen after activating the Nvidia drivers and using the Unity-2d interface. Shutdown seems to hang, taking 2 minutes. Error messages indicate that the "kill all remaining processes" failed, so that may have something to do with it. This extended shutdown is noted in the standard installation to a USB too. Looks like the 11.10 live media does not make as usable system as the 10.04, with it's slow start and shutdown. The initial USB was used to install to an 8g Candy Team Inc USB. Used my standard modifications (h=4, s=16, partition 1 start at 8192 sectors) and was surprised to see that my installer wireless information was carried over -- all I needed to do was copy in the firmware, and a connection was made! The additional software sources set up on the installer also carried over to the installation. Maybe this is standard, but this is the first time I am using a modified installer system. Previously I used unmodified installers straight from the ISO. The 8G installation runs (in 2D) with good performance, and seems to be snappier than the 8G 10.10 system I have been using. Then again, lets see after I install a few more packages. Of course, with USB sticks differing in performance so much, that may be the overriding factor. No problems with firefox like I experienced with 11.04 (Natty), so I may make the switch from 10.10 (Maverick). Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Oct 17 18:47:32 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:47:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-10-18 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG "news" Message-ID: <20111017184732.1082314uay9ivjk0@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-10-18 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG "news" Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-10-18 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2011-10-18 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a specific speaker/presentation lined up and confirmed for this meeting (but watch for potentially late-breaking updates here[1], or on our "announce" list: http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-announce-balug.org ) In any case, speaker/presentation or not, that doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings. Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to announce or fully publicize the speaker (that's happened on at least a couple occasions). Got questions, answers, and/or opinions? We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to cover LINUX and related topic areas. Want to hear some interesting discussions on LINUX and other topics? Show up at the meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda if you wish. Want to help ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings? Help refer speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators. Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to be had. 1. http://www.balug.org/#Meetings-upcoming So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, October 18th, 2011 2011-10-18 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ CDs, etc.: Additional goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Want to volunteer to help out BALUG? (quite a variety of opportunities exist) Drop us a note at: balug-contact at balug.org Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting. ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 19:50:01 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:50:01 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: KDE, Gnome3 and Unity (yes, all Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: <4E8CB526.5000206@gmail.com> References: <4E8695DD.3050308@gmail.com> <4E8CB526.5000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes, KDE is heavyweight, and perpetually released in a still-unready state. Personally if I were to install KDE on Ubuntu, I would use a fork of KDE 3 such as Trinity: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ I am going to rant about the state of the major Linux desktop environments so please tune out if you're easily offended. I was a happy KDE 3 user for years until the fateful KDE 4 release, which was pretty much an abortion (apologies to ob/gyn's for comparing what you do to KDE). I gradually warmed to GNOME 2 and figured out how to customize it to my liking. Then GNOME 3 came along (nuf said) and this summer I decided to give KDE (now at 4.7) another chance. Sadly after 3+ years to smooth out the rough edges, it still sucked ugly turkey eggs. What is going on in the Free Desktop Environment world? Everybody wants to be the new "visionary", the Steve Jobs of Free Software, by creating something so slick and eye-catching that it finally converts the masses onto Linux. Only problem is when it's at the expense of creating robust efficient software that actually works for its users. There are two paradigms for desktop design which are just about mutually exclusive: A) Attract new users to your desktop Foobar, and expect them to use their computer The Foobar Way. Rejoice when users accept your way of doing things and hail you as a design genius. B) Appeal to users who already know how to use a computer, and provide a lightweight set of pieces (panels, menus, etc) which the user can set up according to his/her own particular preferences. Now you might think, "Alternative desktops which appeal to hackers are fine, but I don't want to be left out of the mainstream of desktop developments and end up not being able to use kewl new features". The good news is, you don't need to use one of the Big Two, because all the window managers are tied to STANDARDS (X11, Portland/xdg-utils and the other freedesktop.org stuff). This means you can use Joe's Funky (But Conformant) Window Manager, and mix in components from other desktops (like Avant Window Navigator for a dock bar). I think this is the key: if you use Awesome, you don't have to only use components written for Awesome -- you can use mix 'n' match components from ANY X11 window manager. You don't need full KDE to use Nepomuk any more than you need a GNOME desktop to run Gimp. So the bottom line is: Unity, GNOME, and KDE are not the pinnacle of the Linux desktop experience; they're a point of entry for new users, and an adequate default for people who don't want to spend their lives customizing their desktop. If you are really looking for thrills from your window manager, don't be afraid to immerse yourself in XMonad, XFCE, LXDE, Fluxbox, or whatever else appeals to your sense of fun. On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > forwarding to SF-LUG, as no response on SV-LUG. > Thank you, Ehud > > > - -------- Original Message -------- > Subject:???? KDE, Gnome3 and Unity (yes, all Ubuntu) > Date:???? Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:23:57 -0700 > From:???? Ehud Kaldor > To:???? SVLUG > > > > Hi all, > [[to avoid long description, please jump to problem description below]] > > as I am not a religious person, after spending some time with Ubuntu's > (11.04) Unity, I decided to give Gnome3 a chance. the process is not so > straightforward, and removes Unity on the way, but is possible and > documented, and not too complicated (well, after all, we are running > Linux...). > > in Gnome3, aside from personal taste issues, i found a strange effect - it > seemed like the UI stalls on the synaptics touchpad of my laptop, which > Unity (and KDE - read on) did not do. put differently - i would need to > 'jiggle' the touchpad for a good second or two before the cursor actually > started moving. pretty annoying. > > a few days ago i decided to give KDE a chance. again, the transition is not > as slick as i would like it to be, and i had to > install/remove/install/remove/install a few times until i got desktop > effects, window decorations and so. > > [[problem description]] > but despite very much enjoying the graphic level and slick design, the > problem is that KDE will freeze on me, to the point i need to hard-reset > (holding the power button long), more often than i would assume a stable > desktop would. indeed, i run a pretty heavy environment (VirtualBox running > Windows7, Firefox with more than 10 tabs opened, Thunderbird and some more) > but both Unity and Gnome3 did not give me such issues as freezing completely > and forever (see Alan Turing and 'halting problem'). so much that i reverted > back to Unity. > > did anyone experience this in similar conditions? is this some configuration > thing i missed, or is KDE __that__ heavy by itself, that it leave > significantly less resources for userland programs? > - -- > Thank you, Ehud > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOjLUmAAoJEAYu2FhJ51YkE8UP+wZmfkdOk5YuC28PxzCU3uz4 > kwXWQo4/FYBx5+NQA2mBE28HY2JgegiYnkjX6zsoy+ZG5kLqwoWo+zDg9qc8qayr > XkBeX/B6DERyd0UTk0OMxv+QU/Gr/lZbNiM2nvMfo+i+jsZA1WgT7Kay8lXgqdef > mmECP6J70ulpg7PonyAlyD7n03uSg3TnGbGNpXRiAqvvRDxkw7SVHFbwHVNUgjhk > l6WVVuIg4JNp2Awg3S52Tn6QTBHN8RekVB3S6z5Kjya6Vxv+CdnflO5T1h7hd7vW > gi0zMZsv58xravwbhMdiZMDzGssy/y0qk81wU04tKYAWMi27OlaHuRLhHAlCiacY > lOzuBiBsnIu1oUtaLEqFIipI5O7mIJTYd1FC/+Diuzv/t4VIAOQ/xFDlF7uHJbdx > VoifoPbtcdK1pjiS3bo+r76+MEUtxAU9hpxKY+aBpKljDznYO05CGdh3KYri/VcB > s7KVZSA9HEXy7/3N9vx5hnAhNe2/as3yi/GZQ/FkNFJceDxB3rcFgXZkQbtWhB4S > E+gzS+iwflPRAGL42yZIQVpJV/uJ8q74SMGQV3+r4fEdWyPk+2ZjvijyKx0sTOOT > g+7El5l78BQT3YclTDMxa1Fd3eTLuTSEGvWINoNIGoDb5cPKAiDMW6j/VgFMWEtB > CCA1crtcSDL9SBlGU04y > =of8L > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Tue Oct 18 19:58:04 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:58:04 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: KDE, Gnome3 and Unity (yes, all Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <4E8695DD.3050308@gmail.com> <4E8CB526.5000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: >> i run a pretty heavy environment (VirtualBox running Windows7 BTW - you might try doing whatever you are trying to accomplish with VirtualBox some other way, such as with Wine, if you continue to get system hangs. https://lkml.org/lkml/2011/10/6/317 From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 18 22:47:52 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 22:47:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: KDE, Gnome3 and Unity (yes, all Ubuntu) In-Reply-To: References: <4E8695DD.3050308@gmail.com> <4E8CB526.5000206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111019054752.GG10296@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Wladyslaw Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com): [...] > Now you might think, "Alternative desktops which appeal to hackers are > fine, but I don't want to be left out of the mainstream of desktop > developments and end up not being able to use kewl new features". The > good news is, you don't need to use one of the Big Two, because all > the window managers are tied to STANDARDS (X11, Portland/xdg-utils and > the other freedesktop.org stuff). This means you can use Joe's Funky > (But Conformant) Window Manager, and mix in components from other > desktops (like Avant Window Navigator for a dock bar). I think this is > the key: if you use Awesome, you don't have to only use components > written for Awesome -- you can use mix 'n' match components from ANY > X11 window manager. You don't need full KDE to use Nepomuk any more > than you need a GNOME desktop to run Gimp. > > So the bottom line is: Unity, GNOME, and KDE are not the pinnacle of > the Linux desktop experience; they're a point of entry for new users, > and an adequate default for people who don't want to spend their lives > customizing their desktop. If you are really looking for thrills from > your window manager, don't be afraid to immerse yourself in XMonad, > XFCE, LXDE, Fluxbox, or whatever else appeals to your sense of fun. Extremely well said. I've been trying to remind people of the option of starting with your choice of window manager and enabling _only what you actually want_ on an a la carte basis, instead of taking some entire kitchen sink just because it came with a distro's default 'desktop environment'. The first key, and really instructive (but reversible) step is to try disabling the X session manager and reboot. On *buntu/Debian systems, this is as simple as mv'ing the /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager symlink to somewhere for safekeeping. (You can always put it back.) Having done that, try 'sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager' and try out different window managers. If you don't have choices listed there, install a few and compare them, e.g., mmaker, icewm, fluxbox, etc. (Again, the update-alternatives command can be used to revert changes, if desired.) From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 18 23:31:56 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 23:31:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From grantbow at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 19 16:48:51 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 02:48:51 +0300 Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge In-Reply-To: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks for keeping things going, Joseph! I'll also be logging in at the meeting time from Nairobi, Kenya. Arm chair quarterbacks are cordially invited to join us in http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=noisebridge or maybe a less busy channel from anywhere :-) Cheers, Grant Bowman On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Joseph Puig wrote: > The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to > 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. > > Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San > Francisco. > > Info: ?www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net From jim at systemateka.com Wed Oct 19 17:06:48 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 17:06:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Grant Bowman at Linux Discussion at Noisebridge, virtually In-Reply-To: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1319069208.1843.7.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Grant Bowman, who is in Africa working for Dreamfish to promote open source software and personages (training interns), claims now to have two alarms to wake him at 4 AM his local time so he can join our linux discussion group at noisebridge. here are links he provides: http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=noisebridge http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=lindependence and/or http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=dreamfish On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 23:31 -0700, Joseph Puig wrote: > The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to > 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. > > Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San > Francisco. > > Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net > > Joseph > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From grantbow at ubuntu.com Wed Oct 19 18:45:27 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2011 04:45:27 +0300 Subject: [sf-lug] Grant Bowman at Linux Discussion at Noisebridge, virtually In-Reply-To: <1319069208.1843.7.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1319005916.36489.YahooMailRC@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <1319069208.1843.7.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: The problem is the two snooze buttons. :-) Grant On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 3:06 AM, jim wrote: > > ? ?Grant Bowman, who is in Africa working for Dreamfish to > promote open source software and personages (training interns), > claims now to have two alarms to wake him at 4 AM his local > time so he can join our linux discussion group at noisebridge. > ? ?here are links he provides: > > http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=noisebridge > > http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=lindependence and/or > > http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=dreamfish > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-18 at 23:31 -0700, Joseph Puig wrote: >> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to >> 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. >> >> Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San >> Francisco. >> >> Info: ?www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net >> >> Joseph >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Fri Oct 21 23:01:16 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 23:01:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 15, KDE 4.7, Gnome 3 Message-ID: <4EA25C2C.2060804@dslextreme.com> Hi Team, Well I bought a magazine on computer administration with a Fedora 15 live and install CD. This is the best Fedora I have tried so far but what is good is not necessarily what is under the hood but the access permitted. The live boot menu offers KDE and Gnome boots either in 686 or 64 bit mode selected by accessing the 3rd item from the top of the boot menu Architecture selection which will then let you chose to boot in either or those modes. Each version offers an install from the main screen even when as with Gnome 3 it doesn't work too well. I don't think I would like G-3 even if I had the hardware with 3D acceleration to make it work well. It has Windows emulation syndrome. As a matter of fact one of the offered widgets is Windows Programs which I did not have the resources to investigate further. As Alan Swithenbank pointed out the Gnome 3 2D interface is a step backward from Gnome 2.3. Linux Torwalds by the way agrees. KDE 4.7 is tamer but less adaptable than the earlier version I use daily. For example I run an extra task bar on the left side of my desktops as well as the main task bar on the top of my screen(AmigaOS style). This proved impossible to duplicate with the KDE 4.7. You can make a new panel with your choice of Default with the menu icon and a few widgets running Task Manager and Desktop chooser or Empty. You can put it at the top or bottom of the Desktop but it seems the capacity to have a task bar on the side is absent. In either environment it was possible to rotate the screen but when I connected my 32" TV monitor it could only use a rather small resolution. But when I rebooted after playing with the switches my Desktop came up in 1920 x 1080. KDE 4.7 is a clear winner despite it loss of adaptability to the users whim. From alchaiken at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 14:05:45 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 14:05:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 15, KDE 4.7, Gnome 3 Message-ID: Since I installed Fedora 15 on my laptop, it very often fails to boot because it hangs in the network driver because network driver tries to load before D-Bus is fully up. This hang can occur whether or not wireless is enabled and whether or not wireline eth0 is plugged in. My system is fully patched, in case you were wondering. And my laptop is a three-year-old x86_64 AMD version from HP. In other words, if I enable network start at boot on laptop, it is currently pretty much unusable. For my money, F15 with systemd is by far the worst RedHat release of all time, and I've been using RH since RH6 (before Fedora existed). YMMV obviously. If Fedora 16 is not substantially more stable, I will soon be a Debian user. -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "What you do for a living is not be creative, what you do is ship." -- Seth Godin, vimeo.com/5895898 From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Sat Oct 22 16:41:07 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:41:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: GNOME outreach program for women internships (a little like Google's SOC) In-Reply-To: <4EA3545F.5060906@gmail.com> References: <4EA3545F.5060906@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EA35493.2010305@gmail.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: GNOME outreach program for women internships (a little like Google's SOC) Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2011 16:40:15 -0700 From: Michael Shiloh Reply-To: michael at michaelshiloh.com To: Dorkbot-Blabber Looks like a good idea. I know nothing more about this, so please, if you have any questions, follow the website to the right contact: https://live.gnome.org/GnomeWomen/OutreachProgram2011 The deadline is 31 October. The program sponsors women internships to do coding, documentation, design, testing, usability, and similar projects for the GNOME project. The internship period is from Dec to Mar and pays USD$5000 for a completed effort. Pass on the word! Deadlines approach! From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Sun Oct 23 15:26:01 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 18:26:01 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 15, KDE 4.7, Gnome 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 5:05 PM, Alison Chaiken wrote: > For my money, F15 with systemd is by far the worst RedHat release of > all time, and I've been using RH since RH6 (before Fedora existed). Yikes, it looks like upstart is still available in Fedora as an alternative to systemd, but not exactly a supported configuration. http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=267656 Ah Lennart... you would have been the Jesus of userspace, but you flew too close to the sun... From alchaiken at gmail.com Sun Oct 23 15:35:06 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 15:35:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 15, KDE 4.7, Gnome 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wladyslaw Zbikowski wrote: > Yikes, it looks like upstart is still available in Fedora as an > alternative to systemd, but not exactly a supported configuration. Upstart is an equal horror. The boot sequence is a linked list, so removing one task from the list is not simple. I cannot figure out how to get an Ubuntu system to boot without bringing up GUI, nor can I figure out how to get it to bring up network without logging in. (These problems I solved another way, as I use Ubuntu infrequently, thank $DEITY.) -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "What you do for a living is not be creative, what you do is ship." -- Seth Godin, vimeo.com/5895898 From jim at systemateka.com Tue Oct 25 10:50:55 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 10:50:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGies Meeting Thursday 10/27, 7:30 PM, "YouTube for Your Business", JJ Behrens Message-ID: <1319565055.1840.138.camel@jim-LAPTOP> "YouTube for Your Business", JJ Behrens, 7:30 PM Thursday 20111027 JJ Behrens will give an introduction to YouTube and YouTube APIs with an emphasis on how you can use them for your business. He'll also give some information about how Python is used at YouTube. JJ Behrens is a developer advocate at Google specializing in YouTube APIs. He's a long-time member of BayPiggies. He blogs at jjinux.blogspot.com on topics such as Python, Ruby, Linux, open source software, the Web, and lesser-known programming languages. LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Oct 25 22:28:48 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 22:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1319606928.89507.YahooMailRC@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Thu Oct 27 16:06:55 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 16:06:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Gnome-schedule on Ubuntu Oneiric Message-ID: <4EA9E40F.7080205@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samir at esamir.com Fri Oct 28 05:54:20 2011 From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci) Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2011 07:54:20 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] Gnome-schedule on Ubuntu Oneiric In-Reply-To: <4EA9E40F.7080205@gmail.com> References: <4EA9E40F.7080205@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm running 11.10 though mainly use KDE as my wm. I installed gnome-schedule and didn't have any problems loading it/ running it. I'm fairly certain you can't set cron.daily to run on a particular day. By definition it runs daily. You can setup a crontab job to run on a particular day though. You can also just add a crontab entry manually if you'd like. This could be handy though.. though web based http://www.corntab.com/pages/crontab-gui On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Anyone tried to install gnome-schedule on Ubuntu Oneiric (11.10) and got an > assertion about libgail when trying to run? I searched and could not find > any solution. and, anyone has any alternative? can cron.daily be set to run > at a specific time of day? > > - -- > Thank you, > Ehud > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOqeQKAAoJEAYu2FhJ51YkqhoP/2iURV/A8Rtfb4jb4QSoHfY+ > goCf8+t3rCh29OI/fxtdBLVpWnA9YpMgVnOIL7PuDeF9HESmTFYnfdF24j9qHt66 > Yzk6WRDYxYmSDzfk1Tp5lfGemb8Xz9rXz71OXhpzs8gh6ggT/S3jqfR9FwF5MaaP > uywZfqulRTGsdeN1rFqqpfmt4X4qOI2iKoYZyFuSGXriC4Nq1i4+QfRuPCm32zUW > nVIE6AfPpYzLyscN9AycZ4dMqdHlL5wAKGCFew0VBEysIOOEwr69QZ5SCKehZxb8 > F9GZPsq+b2M8ppIBvYTmqvs3qhyxyFL44nSN7kcCbYiqhJkkOzIphxADF8/KI8M6 > q2ES7cnVc0B1K3OhJj3xpy8EyCdAYIRysqO1EkfphFWh2c2DVVMLNh7AMlDXSmVg > svA7fgivYJrR2u0vbHDOQJqB1KKUumAhCJuZFDt2IdNt+g7SWsXDEjp0dK+zCwE/ > qcCND+vzSVqN1uzwqvvZbmR1P0/ZeUP3xCRFMbEXH6+InJQktU28pF+mtBNDZjZe > tBZHgis8tSCpN80fHXizgGVt5y+e4li20JcfNYZ73LJogkMufAphdMu3c/w0+nzb > b1MJRyI9Jx7hq9OTtzV083qVkTT+j2NtVTv1UAXyUvUi/BwL6UAfk/OPyqCZztyw > 4EkEgZ35SOj2nrWbvHc8 > =O/aG > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow From john_re at fastmail.us Sun Oct 30 17:34:31 2011 From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re) Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2011 17:34:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Root Android tablet hw & run Linux Distro (KUbuntu, Debian, ?) Howto? ; gre Message-ID: <1320021271.5275.140660992484357@webmail.messagingengine.com> Anyone know howto Root the Android tablet hw & run a Linux Distro, such as KUbuntu, Ubuntu, Debian, or some other? I have searched & found some info, some of it conflicting, so I'm looking to hear here from someone 1) preferably who has actually done this, with practical experience 2) otherwise, & just as fine to me, someone knowledgeable about how to do this. Any an all helpful suggestions/comments welcome - even if you haven't rooted a tablet, or android cell phone. -- Google: "lenovo bootloader unlocked" "lenovo tablet root" === Android 3 hw based tablets have been selling recently for $300-350 on sale in the bay area typically about $100 off MSRP. Lenovo, Acer, Asus? BestBuy, Frys, Target. These mostly have the NVidia tegra 2 ARM processor, dual core, GPU, 1GB RAM, 16GB SSD. I'm interested in the 10" tablets, which often have Android 3 on them for $300+, or android 2 on them for about $200, with a single core processor & 512 MB RAM. == Todays 1 day sunday sale Acer 10.1" Tablet HoneyComb 3.0 16GB $350 http://www.frys.com/ads/page11 http://www.frys.com/product/6639484?site=sa:adpages%20page:sunday Mfr: ACER Model: A-500-10S16u FRYS.com #6639484 UPC: 884483917488 == Last week I got the Lenovo 32GB ssd 1GB RAM tablet on sale at frys, $330 down from $400. http://www.frys.com/product/6687104?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG I now have 7 days left to decide to keep or return it. I really only want to keep it if I can get a linux distro running on it. http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/ideapad/ K1 - I have this http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/tablet/thinkpad/ - business oriented http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/ - shows tablet selections It runs google maps/earth app nicely fast. But, the software is crappy, & has _tons_ of bloatware. Ex: web browser has only 10 tabs capable in only one "window". No noscript. No flashblock. No adblockplus. No easy sw package management tool. System Fonts are way too large (super tiny fonts = see more info on the screen = I like). Geez. :( I basically want to do web browsing, save web pages, write stuff, take pictures, & easily transfer it to my KUbuntu desktop or laptop. Basically, I'd like a KUbuntu running on it, but I suspect KU doesn't have sw for the tegra/ARM. == KDE is supposed to be working on a tablet OS etc. == I've been told the best tablet for linux is the Acer ICONIA TAB W Series because it runs on an AMD x86, and runs Windows - W series (not the A=Android series) http://us.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/series/iconia-tab-w - thus it has the typical BIOS capabilities that Linux systems use, instead of the Android os, and thus is easier to get linux on than the Android os devices. Is this true? Anyone put linux on those? Downside to those is , I think 1) more expensive, - $500, fewer on sale. 2) less retail availability. == Any suggestions on how to get a linux distro onto one of these tablets? All constructive suggestions appreciated! :) Thanks :) == Smartphone Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/Smartphone Join in the Global monthly meetings, via voice, about all Free SW HW & Culture http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Oct 31 13:23:01 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 13:23:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting this Sunday November 6 Message-ID: <4EAF03A5.1070309@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday which is November 6 from 11 AM to 1 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA Hope to see you there Bobbie Sellers From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Nov 1 21:19:44 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 21:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1320207584.1780.YahooMailRC@web83816.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From joebaker at dcresearch.com Sun Nov 6 01:05:15 2011 From: joebaker at dcresearch.com (Joe) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 01:05:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Remote access to Microsoft Windows server In-Reply-To: References: <4E8CB43C.6050300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EB63FBB.5000500@dcresearch.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What about disconnecting from the session and reconnecting with a command line which has a different geometry? Does this reshape the geometry and layout of the windows desktop screen for you? I've noticed in VirtualBox that they have a windows display driver that allows you to resize the remote desktop window and have the resulting layout of the windows screen adjust correspondingly. Another thought is to look in the windows control panel for display settings which enable resizing of the display in a quicker way from an applet like control on the taskbar. If disconnecting the session and reconnecting with a different command line works, then we could make a script that kills off the one and connects with the other geometry on the fly. Then bind this script to a keyboard shortcut sequence of your Linux Desktop. I hope this helps. - -Joe Baker GPG Key ID 0xDDEC0260 On 10/09/2011 03:24 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > > My comments are in line below. Basically, I have been able to > access Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 in a window with the BASH > command given below, but I would like to be able to toggle between > full screen mode and the window once it is open, without having to > go to the BASH shell. Does anyone know how to do this? Thx in > advance > > rm ~/.rdesktop/licence* && rdesktop rds.otherlawfirm.com > -g 1152x864 -a 16 -k en-us > > I tried googling > > toggle between full screen mode and a window in Ubuntu 10.04 > opened from terminal > > and was taken to this page > > http://www.geertvancompernolle.be/myjoomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82:changing-some-settings-in-ubuntu-1004-lts&catid=2:linux&Itemid=18 > > > > > which says that the terminal shell uses F11 by default to toggle > between full screen and window mode, but that didn't seem to work > for me. When I click on the window with the terminal shell, > hitting F11 does indeed toggle between full screen mode and window > mode, but the same is not true for the window which contains the > Microsoft Windows Server 2008 R2 session. Instead, nothing at all > happens when I am in the window mode with the Microsoft Windows > Server 2008 session and I hit F11. I have poked around with other > F keys, but no luck. Thanks in advance! > > > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk62P7sACgkQ7J1dPd3sAmDiUwCfVzHUvQ2K36Xv65uXh5oSjQNd tLgAnA+5lcRnF35W8RJFfTCsLgT47F2Q =Jb46 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sun Nov 6 14:39:40 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 14:39:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting today November 6 at Cafe Enchante Message-ID: <4EB70CAC.6060400@dslextreme.com> I arrived at 1040. Ken Schaeffer and wife arrived before 1100 Jim Stockford was late but made a massive contribution to the Library fund. Eric Porter came in later. I had a problem connecting to the WiFi at Cafe Enchante but eventually with Ken's help we got my wireless working again. In the process I got to see the new Unity interface on Ubuntu 11.10 which now works without hardware acceleration. Looks like it is usable and Ken had it set up much as I would with the task bar at the top of the screen and additional tasks and programs on the left. Works very nicely too even without the nVidia specific drivers. Was running on a kernel above 3.0 In the process of getting the wireless working the Compaq Presario was booting and rebooting on installed Mandriva, Knoppix 6.7 and Ubuntu 11.10 as noted above. The wireless is still working here at home. We broke up about 1 PM and Jim gave myself and Eric a ride home which is quite a help. later Bobbie Sellers From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 21:30:29 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 21:30:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] rsync question Message-ID: <4EB76CF5.3010100@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Nov 6 22:07:11 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 22:07:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] rsync question In-Reply-To: <4EB76CF5.3010100@gmail.com> References: <4EB76CF5.3010100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111107060711.GA14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ehud Kaldor (ehud.kaldor at gmail.com): > is this supposed to be like that? did i do something wrong in my > script? Appears to be normal. http://lwn.net/Articles/400489/ speculates: 'The atop program showed rsync appears to need three processes: one process that does only disk reads, one that does only disk writes and one (I assume) control process that uses little CPU time and does no disk I/O.' http://www.hpsc.csiro.au/userguides/faq/rsync.php has a different speculation: 'rsync is a slightly multithreaded copy mechanism and will spawn multiple threads depending on the size of the file tree being copied over.' Please see also: http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailing-lists-3/rsnapshot-24/rsync-appearing-multiple-times-in-process-list-113096/ http://www.backupcentral.com/phpBB2/two-way-mirrors-of-external-mailing-lists-3/rsnapshot-24/multiple-rsync-processes-for-a-single-backup-point-unexp-103327/ From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Sun Nov 6 22:55:53 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2011 22:55:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] rsync question In-Reply-To: <20111107060711.GA14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <4EB76CF5.3010100@gmail.com> <20111107060711.GA14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4EB780F9.8070005@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nbs at sonic.net Tue Nov 8 15:00:25 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:00:25 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, November 21: "" Message-ID: <201111082300.pA8N0PZY020102@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting: Monday November 21, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "Web Applications with Pyramid" Eric Rasmussen, Web Developer Pyramid is an open source Python web framework focusing on minimalism, speed, and reliability. Pyramid's lightweight design is general enough that you can structure virtually any type of web application. You can get started with a single page website in 12 lines of code, or use community-developed templates to begin with pre-configured caching, database interactions, and templating. Given the recent advancements in HTML5, now is a great time to learn how to structure modern, cross-platform web applications using a framework that supports many styles and levels of development. About the Speaker: Eric Rasmussen started web development with PHP, moved to Pylons-based projects in March 2010, and began testing and using Pyramid (a part of the Pylons project) in its alpha stages in November 2010. He is an active member on the Pylons community mailing list and has contributed to documentation and cookbook recipes. In addition to web development, Eric has used Python and Haskell professionally for a wide range of small business and consulting services, most frequently in the areas of data analysis/consolidation, systems integration, and parsing. This meeting will be held at: Explorit 3141 5th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/explorit/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:27:22 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 18:27:22 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] Browser on 486 Message-ID: (Cross-posted to sf-lug and tiny-tux). A friend is interested to run a modern browser (and other applications) on an 80486. My suggestion was to ditch X and run WebKit on the framebuffer because - X is a bloated nightmare - Firefox or Chromium would be too much work to build for framebuffer - Super-lightweight browsers (e.g. Dillo) tend to break many sites - There are plenty of apps for browser or text console Any alternative suggestions or recommended distros? From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 15:47:29 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 18:47:29 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] [Tiny-tux] Browser on 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:29 PM, Ronald Cotoni wrote: > recompiled kernel (the kernel needs to be recompiled to use WAY less ram). > ?twm uses ~800kbytes of ram which is completely doable on a 486. Good point, I'm thinking CONFIG_EMBEDDED and CONFIG_CC_OPTIMIZE_FOR_SIZE to start with. It would be useful to have lynx/links as a backup, but most people prefer a graphical browser for everyday use. Conceivably one could run X to just launch a single fullscreen browser window and no window manager, if X were absolutely needed for some reason. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 8 15:49:37 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 15:49:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Browser on 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111108234937.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Wladyslaw Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com): > (Cross-posted to sf-lug and tiny-tux). Crosspost removed. > A friend is interested to run a > modern browser (and other applications) on an 80486. My suggestion was > to ditch X and run WebKit on the framebuffer because > > - X is a bloated nightmare > - Firefox or Chromium would be too much work to build for framebuffer > - Super-lightweight browsers (e.g. Dillo) tend to break many sites > - There are plenty of apps for browser or text console > > Any alternative suggestions or recommended distros? 1. You _are_ going to break some features on some sites. The RAM constraint is too severe not to. 2. http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#linuxbrowser lists all conceivable browser options, most of which (of course) cannot conceivably run in the ridiculously tiny RAM complement of a 486, but a few that can. 3. The heyday of the i80486 was circa 1992, i.e. two decades ago. Computers that old tend to be fragile, on the edge of failure, and require parts that are now specialty items when/if anything fails. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 8 16:16:19 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 16:16:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Browser on 486 In-Reply-To: <20111108234937.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111108234937.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111109001618.GJ14946@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#linuxbrowser > lists all conceivable browser options Graphical browsers. For text-mode, add: w3m Lynx Links: includes graphical mode via SVGALib or framebuffer ELinks (fork of Links) Links Hacked (another fork of Links) w3m.el in Emacs Emacs/W3 Line Mode Browser (largely supplanted by Lynx) From cymraegish at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 17:07:59 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:07:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] [Tiny-tux] Browser on 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Wladyslaw Zbikowski < embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:29 PM, Ronald Cotoni wrote: > > recompiled kernel (the kernel needs to be recompiled to use WAY less > ram). > > twm uses ~800kbytes of ram which is completely doable on a 486. > > Good point, I'm thinking CONFIG_EMBEDDED and > CONFIG_CC_OPTIMIZE_FOR_SIZE to start with. > > I have heard that -Os is actually faster on old machines anyway (perhaps due to the low speed of the RAM) > It would be useful to have lynx/links as a backup, but most people > prefer a graphical browser for everyday use. Conceivably one could run > X to just launch a single fullscreen browser window and no window > manager, if X were absolutely needed for some reason. > links2 (FORKED from links) works very fast in graphical mode. it appears that X wants 32MB RAM but maybe some of that in kernel. I have experience with Mac of same vintage and I can testify that there are 72pin simms in larger sizes that work well beyond what the original specs said, That is there are 64MB and 128MB card. Useful to have one if you can. In NetBSD the Xserver for Mac is configured to run in Black and White which makes it a Lot faster than Xorg which won't do that. I forget if Xorg even allows 8 bit color anymore, but anyway you might look into building Xfree86. Don't be afraid of distcc. Good Luck, break a leg. Brian p.s. have a look at tomsrtbt, its fun > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cymraegish at gmail.com Tue Nov 8 17:12:55 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 17:12:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] [Tiny-tux] Browser on 486 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I should be clear that Links2 is a fully graphical Gui browser with jpg and frame support. It is very good and clean about filtering out modern fluff. I have used it on newer machines to read news just because of that. But on old machines it is very pleasantly fast. Of course there are mobile browser sites which should definitely not be ignored. Many can be gotten with a 'm' prefix eg m.wikipedia.org; if you can hack it a browser can be configured to have an option to identify as mobile. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Wladyslaw Zbikowski < > embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:29 PM, Ronald Cotoni wrote: >> > recompiled kernel (the kernel needs to be recompiled to use WAY less >> ram). >> > twm uses ~800kbytes of ram which is completely doable on a 486. >> >> Good point, I'm thinking CONFIG_EMBEDDED and >> CONFIG_CC_OPTIMIZE_FOR_SIZE to start with. >> >> I have heard that -Os is actually faster on old machines anyway (perhaps > due to the low speed of the RAM) > > >> It would be useful to have lynx/links as a backup, but most people >> prefer a graphical browser for everyday use. Conceivably one could run >> X to just launch a single fullscreen browser window and no window >> manager, if X were absolutely needed for some reason. >> > > links2 (FORKED from links) works very fast in graphical mode. > > it appears that X wants 32MB RAM but maybe some of that in kernel. > > I have experience with Mac of same vintage and I can testify that there > are 72pin simms in larger sizes that work well beyond what the original > specs said, That is there are 64MB and 128MB card. Useful to have one if > you can. > > In NetBSD the Xserver for Mac is configured to run in Black and White > which makes it a Lot faster than Xorg which won't do that. I forget if Xorg > even allows 8 bit color anymore, but anyway you might look into building > Xfree86. > > Don't be afraid of distcc. > > Good Luck, break a leg. > > Brian > > p.s. have a look at tomsrtbt, its fun > > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 10 16:19:07 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:19:07 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <1320961682.87748.yint-ygo-j2me@web125712.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1320961682.87748.yint-ygo-j2me@web125712.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20111111001907.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting donna curtis (donnaccincinnati at yahoo.com) -- but not the actual Donna Curtis, but rather a spammer who seems to have broken into her webmail account: > [a spamvertised URL] Folks, this sort of break-in has been happening all over the major webmail services for several years. Please, when you see it happen, jolt the listadmins awake, and ask them to fix it. How do you find the listadmins? Look at the bottom of any posting > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug is this mailing list's 'listinfo' page, that includes at the bottom the e-mail addresses of the two listadmins, Jim and lx_rudis. Turns out, Donna's Yahoo box was apparently security-compromised in 2009, and her mailbox has been intermittently hitting this mailing list ever since then. As owner of linuxmafia.com, which hosts SF-LUG's mailing list, I stepped in today because abuse of my server by spammers is pretty much the biggest no-no. I've just now ensured that Donna's account cannot spam us again _and_ purged all past spams sent by her mailbox from the sf-lug back-postings archive. If this ever happens again, please let Jim and lx_rudis know. If that doesn't work, let _me_ know. Best Regards, Rick M. From jim at systemateka.com Thu Nov 10 17:38:58 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:38:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <20111111001907.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <1320961682.87748.yint-ygo-j2me@web125712.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20111111001907.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1320975538.2163.11.camel@jim-LAPTOP> My (and I expect "our") thanks to Rick. Either jim at well.com or jim at systemateka.com will reach me. I welcome any and all suggestions about SF-LUG and the mailing list. jim On Thu, 2011-11-10 at 16:19 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting donna curtis (donnaccincinnati at yahoo.com) -- but not the actual > Donna Curtis, but rather a spammer who seems to have broken into her > webmail account: > > > [a spamvertised URL] > > > Folks, this sort of break-in has been happening all over the major > webmail services for several years. Please, when you see it happen, > jolt the listadmins awake, and ask them to fix it. > > How do you find the listadmins? Look at the bottom of any posting > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug is this mailing list's > 'listinfo' page, that includes at the bottom the e-mail addresses of the > two listadmins, Jim and lx_rudis. > > Turns out, Donna's Yahoo box was apparently security-compromised in > 2009, and her mailbox has been intermittently hitting this mailing list > ever since then. As owner of linuxmafia.com, which hosts SF-LUG's > mailing list, I stepped in today because abuse of my server by spammers > is pretty much the biggest no-no. I've just now ensured that Donna's > account cannot spam us again _and_ purged all past spams sent by her > mailbox from the sf-lug back-postings archive. > > If this ever happens again, please let Jim and lx_rudis know. If that > doesn't work, let _me_ know. > > Best Regards, > Rick M. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Fri Nov 11 10:07:29 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:07:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Noisebridge Message-ID: <4EBD6461.6000109@dslextreme.com> Is being reported on PBS radio right now. bliss From john_re at fastmail.us Sun Nov 13 05:31:41 2011 From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re) Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2011 05:31:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Help Occupy Oakland get electricity, lights, Linux etc. Daytime. 6-8pm = vote gnl assembly. Tday Sun 11/13 Message-ID: <1321191101.10409.140660998284113@webmail.messagingengine.com> A great bunch of wonderful people. I've been by a few hours the past few weeks. I'm working to help them get holiday light strings on every tent - that will make it safer to walk around the tents, look brighter & more inviting, & beautiful. Bring a string of holiday lights to donate - even a 99 cent one is great. :) Donate an extension cord. Donate a 7" Coby tablet running android linux, $88 this week at frys, - would be great help to the media/web/network people, if you've got that much money. 14th & Broadway, heart of the business district, right outside city hall. 14 th st BART station. The police stole their bike electric generator - like this one also stolen by the police in SF, IIRC. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/13/occupysf_bofh_protest_pedal_power/ You ( everyone there) gets to vote in the general assembly meeting about 6-8pm. www.occupyoakland.org - see the calendar for event times. They are facing eviction at any moment by the powers that be. But they are very resilient , & bringing lights & linux will help them out. Whatever your skills are, they will be useful. :) Oakland is my home town. If u can't make it here, help your local Occupy people. http://www.occupytogether.org/actions/ [I haven't even made it up to Cal's new event, yet.] Bring the kids. http://www.berkeleyside.com/2011/11/08/a-mom-goes-to-occupy-oakland-with-her-7-year-old-twins/ More news http://berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2011-11-12 http://www.dailycal.org/ I hope to see you there. :) - This email written & sent from a Lenovo android linux tablet. == Smartphone Debian: http://wiki.debian.org/Smartphone Join in the Global monthly meetings, via voice, about all Free SW HW & Culture http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:27:21 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:27:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? Message-ID: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part just works for my students. any recommendations? -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:35:58 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:35:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh < michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote: > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > > the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part > just works for my students. > > any recommendations? > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/** > group/teach-me-to-make > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:38:29 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:38:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> long as it doesn't use unity On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: > I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > > wrote: > > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > > the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most > part just works for my students. > > any recommendations? > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ > group/teach-me-to-make > > ______________________________ _________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:45:06 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:45:06 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC16FC2.9050606@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:46:51 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:46:51 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16FC2.9050606@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16FC2.9050606@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC1702B.8020601@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 11:50:09 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:50:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC1702B.8020601@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16FC2.9050606@gmail.com> <4EC1702B.8020601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC170F1.3090409@michaelshiloh.com> good question. i switched first to gnome3 (possible w/in ubuntu) and while it's tolerable i found it got in my way more than helped. gnome2 really put most of my useful things where i wanted them. so in answer to your question, if i use a distro that is debian based, i'd like to be using gnome2. On 11/14/2011 11:46 AM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > by the way, i would pinpoint the question more - are you looking to get > rid of Unity or to get back to Gnome2? in other words - will Gnome3 do > it for you? > > Thank you, Ehud > > On 11/14/2011 02:45 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: >> >> there should also be LMDE - Linux Mint Debian Edition (name suggests > the base distro, i assume :) ) >> Thank you, Ehud >> >> On 11/14/2011 02:35 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: >> > I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... >> >> > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> >> > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >> >> > the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part > just works for my students. >> >> > any recommendations? >> > -- >> > Michael Shiloh >> > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> > KA6RCQ >> > www.teachmetomake.com >> > teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> > Interested in classes? Join > http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sf-lug mailing list >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sf-lug mailing list >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOwXAqAAoJEAYu2FhJ51Ykw/IP/1PqulOaDWrHe8nBF1fqVbbY > 8lfwZJcB+fvlFVO4ZiHsFKPWimOHGLxdgquJsOPlgrnRP2UYPohMMuH1rDxNhqs/ > 0HN/DxvwZRJFWsCzSvP4VskaEZHxiMGxqjz8oTxjl/HBM5fpcSjyysBSV/XMBhkL > F+BU5co0EqMIJvNrpm3hd26poTK65i6YVbLniuusJIMWCbm7apXiWkOiMBf4XAh8 > nDzYHwFahqvhWhC5KnOV8k4Q7HI5IhlRto+gvb7HJctav2015nKr+zYTFk9Gfdms > nw8zJxX6VSfRXr9DMGIhJwj3UIH1yXJkjOpAsUzDd0hBbNuwc75WLy4JnbGbOsKq > fzdqMeINqDTh0mWZ3Ec84aKtSski58qNBgfCY2KMAYHZY2KjmnjMd7J5REOGAZzF > fzmafD2VtLtBON6t17OpvJDksQisnpy8OOFRgfBvcmo8NQcXoz1V+kndzxAuae4x > JYoxR8dUaPiffuvjSPj8MtzfzhOGqJeM08+YtcK8SOpd7StYoT5aVAZd5KkWYvzQ > p2NZ2dzEvUX03dshdytXjRhEdYHnSnqfSukTPIaPpJUHV3i9io3SrJeaUfvwbO5U > ECvjZdC06IWFiK1hRI1l71pJyPMtQ5akdIGVJZ3DAIoIGmubJPyOX7G59WgQSX/k > fa0PiiDWNQQ7O7WKtkdQ > =hUxa > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 12:00:31 2011 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:00:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? There are a lot of distros out there -- about 320-something active, according to DistroWatch -- so take your pick. Larry Cafiero On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > long as it doesn't use unity > > On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: >> >> I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... >> >> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >> > wrote: >> >> ? ?i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >> >> ? ?the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for >> ? ?teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most >> ? ?part just works for my students. >> >> ? ?any recommendations? >> ? ?-- >> ? ?Michael Shiloh >> ? ?Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> ? ?KA6RCQ >> ? ?www.teachmetomake.com >> ? ?teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> ? ?Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ >> ? ?group/teach-me-to-make >> >> >> ? ?______________________________ _________________ >> ? ?sf-lug mailing list >> ? ?sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> ? ?http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> ? ? >> ? ?Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 12:06:50 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:06:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <4EC174DA.1000203@gmail.com> good idea, and thanks for reminding me of xfce - i used it long ago and really like it. i might give that a shot right now. thanks everyone for all the excellent advice On 11/14/2011 12:00 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, > you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there > are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE > desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce > desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). > > In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the > desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on > Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at > ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a > Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to > change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? > > There are a lot of distros out there -- about 320-something active, > according to DistroWatch -- so take your pick. > > Larry Cafiero > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> long as it doesn't use unity >> >> On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: >>> >>> I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >>> > wrote: >>> >>> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >>> >>> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for >>> teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most >>> part just works for my students. >>> >>> any recommendations? >>> -- >>> Michael Shiloh >>> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >>> KA6RCQ >>> www.teachmetomake.com >>> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >>> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ >>> group/teach-me-to-make >>> >>> >>> ______________________________ _________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >>> >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 12:17:42 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:17:42 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <4EC17766.90308@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From algoldor at yahoo.com Mon Nov 14 12:32:12 2011 From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:32:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC174DA.1000203@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <4EC174DA.1000203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1321302732.49260.YahooMailNeo@web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, Well I've met/heard one person saying he likes the new Ubuntu distro with unity, one no more. To? be honest, I think that this change will be quite a big hit for Ubuntu community. I've one question. I do wonder what are the disadvantages of sticking to Lucid Lynx10.04 long term supported version (till April 2013)? I would like to know, because I'm planning downgrading my system Natty Narwhal 11.04 to that one, hoping to live in piece for another year and half ...? What are? the disadvantages of such move? What are advantages? Thanks, Frantisek PS I'm just baking my first bread :-)) ________________________________ From: Michael Shiloh To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? good idea, and thanks for reminding me of xfce - i used it long ago and really like it. i might give that a shot right now. thanks everyone for all the excellent advice On 11/14/2011 12:00 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, > you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there > are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE > desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce > desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). > > In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the > desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on > Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at > ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a > Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to > change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? > > There are a lot of distros out there -- about 320-something active, > according to DistroWatch -- so take your pick. > > Larry Cafiero > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Shiloh > ? wrote: >> long as it doesn't use unity >> >> On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: >>> >>> I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >>> >? wrote: >>> >>>? ? i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >>> >>>? ? the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for >>>? ? teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most >>>? ? part just works for my students. >>> >>>? ? any recommendations? >>>? ? -- >>>? ? Michael Shiloh >>>? ? Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >>>? ? KA6RCQ >>>? ? www.teachmetomake.com >>>? ? teachmetomake.wordpress.com >>>? ? Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ >>>? ? group/teach-me-to-make >>> >>> >>>? ? ______________________________ _________________ >>>? ? sf-lug mailing list >>>? ? sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>>? ? http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >>>? ? >>>? ? Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 12:37:42 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:37:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC17766.90308@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <4EC17766.90308@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC17C16.8000803@gmail.com> it was trivial: apt-get install xubuntu-desktop took about 10 minutes and now i'm happy the trick is to pay attention after rebooting to the very small options at the bottom of the screen, when you can select (among others) xfce or xubuntu. what remains to be seen is whether any of my applications are tied too closely to gnome On 11/14/2011 12:17 PM, Ehud Kaldor wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 11/14/2011 03:00 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: >> In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the >> desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on >> Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. > > in Ubuntu, you can just use Synaptic or apt-get and install the desktop > environment (for example, kde should be 'sudo apt-get install > kde-desktop' [or kde]'. Synaptic would probably provide easier selection > searching for KDE, lxde or xfce). then, when you come to log in using > GDM, after you select your user (and before the password) there should > be a selection box for the desktop to log into. change it, and it will > remember for next time. hint - currently, for Unity, the selected will > be 'Ubuntu'. > > > Thank you, Ehud > > Thank you, Ehud > > On 11/14/2011 03:00 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: >> If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, >> you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there >> are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE >> desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce >> desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). >> >> In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the >> desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on >> Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at >> ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a >> Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to >> change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? >> >> There are a lot of distros out there -- about 320-something active, >> according to DistroWatch -- so take your pick. >> >> Larry Cafiero >> >> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Shiloh >> wrote: >> > long as it doesn't use unity >> > >> > On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: >> >> >> >> I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh >> >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >> >> >> >> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for >> >> teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most >> >> part just works for my students. >> >> >> >> any recommendations? >> >> -- >> >> Michael Shiloh >> >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> >> KA6RCQ >> >> www.teachmetomake.com > >> >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> >> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ >> >> group/teach-me-to-make >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________ _________________ >> >> sf-lug mailing list >> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug >> >> >> >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > sf-lug mailing list >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJOwXdmAAoJEAYu2FhJ51Yk7JkQALc58V7OguNumObjZtmu2w3W > zUpSEyRgwmnU2/bpLYIWtyqxtRdC6sml6WYo1IHeqTJmMuYpXA9FIppENBlNmVWT > fJH6MqM0QwWz219I48e4CRd592VkyAmNyMA4lMxYTUYLemAfGjP8jMtVuwBysWyd > W6lr+esW37AMiYHV3GnCzippWaDVc4ejN6FgOCJ2D9YHCsqc0b1sb7UpQLV0uGpT > wxnlSry10qOYl5efad0U/hNswNOzB8b1Q3A9MfLedu0O8CHwueFJbxaNtcNehNl5 > y2Hgwy0ZVAVw2bZesAEZVqYzi5T0JBopUz9afq6WvKCM/r/PE58ix4bp6za/Aak/ > FT7c+uhVNhsfpmAtrOLs5LSYfRTPri/Iy0un11giPJgDaRUIdg+5N5lmUCUjCNR7 > X+J20ubE0wGdC6nwrGFtF9hOXWz7D5fyfW3qeh+gAgjZA+vtAWNJSBvEoFrl2R9E > dYM4PkQJfTtKWRWBBwZZB8S9Npe/QkNu0n3r+LUn6dC1jF1Ch8qPaHT99+Yv0Rd8 > sB9ZXo6Z1f7dKmgixh8ctfl9+/2Dxo5yw7s501WwX3OMdP5A9DScKXqGNsjZ4e7h > kJF7P5TekwF89EWgyECDpV2To4dWdfD6D8j+l2iEkwtaG2NQEkkFY9m/l9jyAvTq > H3GMVeOF4hZ+OSynDMYy > =fB21 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Nov 14 12:38:47 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:38:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Monday November 21 Message-ID: <4EC17C57.7070603@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. I finally found a case on wheels for my notebook that actually fits so I have an older case good to move around a pre-wide screen laptop or notebook with plenty of room for accessories and other tools. Anyone who needs it can have free unless I am overwhelmed by requests for it. Linux Journal has gone electronic so I bought a copy of Linux User and Developer issue 105 which has a single DVD with 4 distros and an interesting article on Debian. It will be at the meeting. One of the distros is the latest version of Parted Magic 6.6 and besides that Linux Mint 11, WattOS R4 and Puppy 5.2.8. WattOS is touted as a low energy requiring distribution with low hardware requirements as well. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From algoldor at yahoo.com Mon Nov 14 12:44:51 2011 From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:44:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] creating second disk under VirtualBOX Message-ID: <1321303491.89536.YahooMailNeo@web111502.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi to all! I've installed with help of my friend VirtualBOX on my computer, running Windows XP. I'm starting to run out of place (dedicated just 10 GB) and I wonder how risky is to create another kind of D: drive of let say 20 GB. The partition where I want to do so is logical partition with ntfs file system, which has 214 GB and I've just data on it, I would prefer not to have to back it up but I can if I've to. Could you tip me on some nice tutorial, how to make the disk and how to recognize it by the existing Windows XP which are on the virtual C: drive? Thanks a lot, Sincerely, Frantisek PS I've a bit of issue surfing for hours online looking through all manuals because I've to put my webpages which are down for more than two weeks and sort out my email too (my? provider justhost failed me completely, loosing three years worth of my data hardly apologizing, so I'm migrating ...). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Mon Nov 14 12:57:30 2011 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 12:57:30 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC174DA.1000203@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <4EC174DA.1000203@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1321304250.2270.43.camel@jim-LAPTOP> a friend of mine is now using knoppix. he says there's a lubuntu distro that uses the LSDE lightweight desktop. i'm thinking i might go knoppix. On Mon, 2011-11-14 at 12:06 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote: > good idea, and thanks for reminding me of xfce - i used it long ago and > really like it. i might give that a shot right now. > > thanks everyone for all the excellent advice > > On 11/14/2011 12:00 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > > If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, > > you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there > > are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE > > desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce > > desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). > > > > In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the > > desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on > > Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at > > ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a > > Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to > > change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? > > > > There are a lot of distros out there -- about 320-something active, > > according to DistroWatch -- so take your pick. > > > > Larry Cafiero > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Michael Shiloh > > wrote: > >> long as it doesn't use unity > >> > >> On 11/14/2011 11:35 AM, Dan Murphy wrote: > >>> > >>> I like Linux Mint..... Though it's ubuntu based... > >>> > >>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM, Michael Shiloh > >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > >>> > >>> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > >>> teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most > >>> part just works for my students. > >>> > >>> any recommendations? > >>> -- > >>> Michael Shiloh > >>> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > >>> KA6RCQ > >>> www.teachmetomake.com > >>> teachmetomake.wordpress.com > >>> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/ > >>> group/teach-me-to-make > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________ _________________ > >>> sf-lug mailing list > >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/ listinfo/sf-lug > >>> > >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 13:16:06 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:16:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC17C16.8000803@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <4EC17766.90308@gmail.com> <4EC17C16.8000803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111114211606.GB14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > what remains to be seen is whether any of my applications are tied > too closely to gnome They're not. Any GNOME application can run without any DE whatsoever, in fact. It's a common misconception. It's all just dependencies. If you can furnish the unholy mob of dependencies a GNOME app requires, then you can run it. From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 15:27:44 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:27:44 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 2:27 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. Never hurts to try something new, or revisit an old favorite for that matter ;-) http://www.flickr.com/photos/8910398 at N08/543407723/sizes/l/in/set-72157600346745156/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 15:43:05 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:43:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111114234305.GG14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > > the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > teaching various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most > part just works for my students. > > any recommendations? Yes. http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro The good news is, you have a _large_ smorgasbord of good choices to pick among. If you feel like coming to a CABAL meeting (http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/), we'll help you install any of them, and have current installation media for most likely choices. (http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/#distros). From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 15:49:54 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 15:49:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC170F1.3090409@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16FC2.9050606@gmail.com> <4EC1702B.8020601@gmail.com> <4EC170F1.3090409@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <20111114234954.GH14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > good question. i switched first to gnome3 (possible w/in ubuntu) and > while it's tolerable i found it got in my way more than helped. > gnome2 really put most of my useful things where i wanted them. > > so in answer to your question, if i use a distro that is debian > based, i'd like to be using gnome2. If you're a subscriber to Linux Weekly News, you can read this excellent article about the choices being offered to users in Linux Mint 12, including two separate installation options attractive to admirers of GNOME 2.x: https://lwn.net/Articles/465538/ If you're not a subscriber to Linux Weekly News, consider subscribing! (The contents of the weekly edition become available to non-subscribers in eight days after publication date, if memory serves.) The article was based largely on analysis and summary of Clement Lefebvre's announcement about Linux Mint 12 plans: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851 Looks like the release candidate ('RC') for Linux Mint 12 'Lisa' came out this past Saturday. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1858 From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 16:00:55 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:00:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Larry Cafiero (larry.cafiero at gmail.com): > If you really like Ubuntu, but don't like Unity -- and, believe me, > you have to get in line (but I'll let you cut in front of me) -- there > are other 'buntus you can use, like Kubuntu (Ubuntu with the KDE > desktop), Xubuntu (one of my favorite distros, utilizing the Xfce > desktop) and Lubuntu (LXDE desktop). > > In fact, you may not have to reinstall, as I know you can change the > desktop environment, but I don't know how exactly to do that on > Ubuntu/Debian-based distros. I know it's in the Ubuntu forums at > ubuntuforums.org (forgive me, but while I use Xubuntu, I'm really a > Fedora guy). Anyone else know where the instructions/tutorial is to > change the desktop environment on Ubuntu? First, install one or more of the DEs you don't yet have. $ sudo apt-get update && apt-get install kubuntu-desktop xubuntu-desktop edubuntu-desktop mythbuntu-desktop (Trim that list of metapackages to suit. Each pulls down a whole lot of packages. Metapackage 'ubuntu-desktop', omitted from the foregoing, is Ubuntu's GNOME metapackage.) Then, select which session manager and window manager you want to use by default: $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager Either kill undesired processes and restart X11 or take the lazy way out and reboot. Consider the (IMO) rather superior alternative of no DE whatsoever, and just running the window manager of your choosing. Better, install various WMs and switch among them until you find the one you like best. Most efficient way of losing the DE undergrowth is to just delete the /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager symlink (or, if timid, move it somewhere else for safekeeping -- but you can always run 'sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager' to re-create it). From akkana at shallowsky.com Mon Nov 14 16:31:47 2011 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 16:31:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> Rick Moen writes: > First, install one or more of the DEs you don't yet have. [ ... ] > Then, select which session manager and window manager you want to use by > default: > > $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager > $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager In most Ubuntu versions, the login screen (gdm) should give you an option to log in with a different desktop -- you may not need update-alternatives. > Consider the (IMO) rather superior alternative of no DE whatsoever, > and just running the window manager of your choosing. Better, install > various WMs and switch among them until you find the one you like best. Seconded. I've been using Ubuntu for years without any of the Gnome stuff or any other desktop (I use the openbox window manager). It gives you a nice feeling of freedom when everybody's trading angst over the latest default desktop changes. Plus, it's a lot easier to move your config files to other machines, or to use the same setup under different distros. Someone asked about just staying on Lucid. That works fine for someone who's doing basic browsing, text editing etc. It doesn't work so well if you're a developer or tester who needs to build cutting-edge versions of software packages. If you're not sure, try it and see how it works for you. ...Akkana From dennisharrison at gmail.com Mon Nov 14 16:49:07 2011 From: dennisharrison at gmail.com (Dennis Harrison) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:49:07 -0600 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: On Nov 14, 2011, at 6:31 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: Rick Moen writes: > First, install one or more of the DEs you don't yet have. [ ... ] > Then, select which session manager and window manager you want to use by > default: > > $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-session-manager > $ sudo update-alternatives --config x-window-manager In most Ubuntu versions, the login screen (gdm) should give you an option to log in with a different desktop -- you may not need update-alternatives. lightdm is the new default, you would need to install gdm and set it to the default if you ant that (though lightdm also allows you to select the session type in the same fashion). > Consider the (IMO) rather superior alternative of no DE whatsoever, > and just running the window manager of your choosing. Better, install > various WMs and switch among them until you find the one you like best. Seconded. I've been using Ubuntu for years without any of the Gnome stuff or any other desktop (I use the openbox window manager). It gives you a nice feeling of freedom when everybody's trading angst over the latest default desktop changes. Plus, it's a lot easier to move your config files to other machines, or to use the same setup under different distros. Someone asked about just staying on Lucid. That works fine for someone who's doing basic browsing, text editing etc. It doesn't work so well if you're a developer or tester who needs to build cutting-edge versions of software packages. If you're not sure, try it and see how it works for you. ...Akkana _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Nov 14 17:03:32 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:03:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-11-15 BALUG meeting - Regular Expressions; & other BALUG "news" Message-ID: <20111114170332.19655mqdmhyvy64g@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-11-15 BALUG meeting - Regular Expressions; & other BALUG "news" Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-11-15 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2011-11-15 BALUG meeting, we'll have a bit of a "workshop" on Regular Expressions[1], by Michael Paoli. Zero to quite a bit of regular expression familiarity? Been to BALUG presentation or the like on Regular Expressions before[2]? (maybe, maybe not) In any case, a session on Regular Expressions - but a different approach. This session will be on finding Regular Expression solutions to solve problems - so bring your problems, examples, etc., and we'll work on them, and/or come for the entertainment/education value of seeing some of the more interesting and complex problems and solutions - and simple fun ones too. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_expressions 2. http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-talk-balug.org/2009-July/004456.html So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, November 15th, 2011 2011-11-15 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ CDs, etc.: Additional goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Want to volunteer to help out BALUG? (quite a variety of opportunities exist) Drop us a note at: balug-contact at balug.org Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting. ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 17:28:47 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:28:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20111115012847.GK14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > In most Ubuntu versions, the login screen (gdm) should give you an > option to log in with a different desktop -- you may not need > update-alternatives. gdm / kdm / etc. do indeed tend to pick session management for the DE you pick (if any) at login, but repointing /etc/alternatives/x-session-manager changes the default for the system as a whole. AFAICT, the session manager is the key piece in each DE that launches all those rubbish service processes and helper mini-applications that you didn't explicitly want and would rather not run ;-> I'll readily admit that my interest in this stuff for my _own_ purposes is mainly limited to losing session management and picking the window manager desired. ...and I tend to just put in xdm and use, which is rather less overengineered than the other display managers. From akkana at shallowsky.com Mon Nov 14 17:55:55 2011 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 17:55:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20111115012847.GK14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> <20111115012847.GK14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111115015555.GB1607@shallowsky.com> Rick Moen writes: > ...and I tend to just put in xdm and use, which is rather less > overengineered than the other display managers. Or run without any login manager at all -- you can log in and start X without any of that, and you can even automate the process so you're automatically logged in at boot time. I've been doing that for years, and love how easy it is to configure compared to gdm. ...Akkana From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 14 18:02:08 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2011 18:02:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <20111115015555.GB1607@shallowsky.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC16E35.6010500@michaelshiloh.com> <20111115000055.GI14946@linuxmafia.com> <20111115003147.GA1607@shallowsky.com> <20111115012847.GK14946@linuxmafia.com> <20111115015555.GB1607@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20111115020208.GM14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > Or run without any login manager at all -- you can log in and start > X without any of that, and you can even automate the process so > you're automatically logged in at boot time. Well, yeah, I did 'startx' for years. I vaguely recall that there are some security advantages to xdm (and presumably more recent kin), and, if it's a machine where you're usually going to be needing X11, dispensing with the repeated X11 startup time of 'startx' becomes A Good Thing. From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 16 07:23:12 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2011 07:23:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1321456992.75530.YahooMailRC@web83814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From jim at systemateka.com Thu Nov 17 09:27:41 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:27:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting tonight, Thursday, November 17, 2011: LDTP Techniques Message-ID: <1321550861.2349.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> BayPIGgies meeting tonight, Thursday, November 17, 2011: LDTP Techniques Speaker Nagappan Alagappan http://nagappanal.blogspot.com Abstract: Linux Desktop Testing Project (LDTP) developed as a python library, to do GUI automation on Unix platform (Linux/Solaris/FreeBSD) running GNOME >= 2.6. LDTP works on top of accessibility layer. Will briefly discuss about different ways of developing / executing the tests. Recently the client LDTP framework has been ported to Windows platform, so the same test scripts can be executed, as long as the UI widgets are same. Project link: http://ldtp.freedesktop.org Bio: Nagappan Alagappan has been working on software development and test automation since 2000. Currently he is the Workstation automation lead @VMware. Previously he worked in Novell., Inc. Creator of Linux Desktop Testing Project (LDTP in short), a GUI automation library written in Python. Contributed to many FOSS projects (Mono ADO.NET, Evolution QA, Mozilla Firefox QA, Mago desktop testing, Clonezilla). Connect with Nagappan via nagappan at gmail.com or nagappanal.blogspot.com. ......................................... LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 8:25 PM (or so) ................ The talk: Linux Desktop Testing Project ..... 8:25 PM to 8:55 PM (or so) ................ Questions and Answers ..... 8:55 PM to 9:30 PM (or so) ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, events, and other topics. Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the announcements and other interests. From samir at esamir.com Thu Nov 17 12:52:26 2011 From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:52:26 -0600 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are some Ubuntu derivatives which are far less annoying. I think the main ones are Kubuntu (KDE) and Xubuntu (XFCE). I was never a fan of gnome, so I've always run the KDE version. XFCE is nice too, but more lightweight. You can also run Fedora, SuSe, Mandrake (I think those are the basic easy to use distributions). Linux Mint is a distribution based on Ubuntu that has been making some waves. The latest version seems really popular of late. It actually passed Ubuntu on terms of popularity so might be worth looking into. For other ideas.. http://distrowatch.com/ On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > > the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for teaching > various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part just works > for my students. > > any recommendations? > -- > Michael Shiloh > Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow Sent from my non-iphone laptop. From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Thu Nov 17 12:55:04 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:55:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> thanks samir. thanks to the advice on this list, i've switched to xubuntu, and am quite happy. i've downloaded but not yet tested linux mint. i'll actually be acquiring a new laptop in a couple of days (flung my trusty t60 off the counter at jameco...) so that might be a perfect time to try linux mint. On 11/17/2011 12:52 PM, Samir Faci wrote: > There are some Ubuntu derivatives which are far less annoying. > > I think the main ones are Kubuntu (KDE) and Xubuntu (XFCE). > > I was never a fan of gnome, so I've always run the KDE version. XFCE > is nice too, but more > lightweight. You can also run Fedora, SuSe, Mandrake (I think those > are the basic easy to use distributions). > > Linux Mint is a distribution based on Ubuntu that has been making some > waves. The latest > version seems really popular of late. It actually passed Ubuntu on > terms of popularity so might be > worth looking into. > > For other ideas.. http://distrowatch.com/ > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >> >> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for teaching >> various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part just works >> for my students. >> >> any recommendations? >> -- >> Michael Shiloh >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> KA6RCQ >> www.teachmetomake.com >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > > From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 17 15:49:19 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:49:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <20111117234919.GB14946@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > thanks to the advice on this list, i've switched to xubuntu, and am > quite happy. i've downloaded but not yet tested linux mint. Glad you're happy with that. I ran Xubuntu for years on my very old iBook with a 700 MHz PowerPC CPU and 256 MB RAM, and found it more than good enough performance even on such trailing-edge hardware. > i'll actually be acquiring a new laptop in a couple of days (flung > my trusty t60 off the counter at jameco...) so that might be a > perfect time to try linux mint. I mentioned the LWN.net article about the several GNOME options to be offered in the impending Linux Mint 12 release, that are expected to be particularly appealing to Ubuntu users disaffected by Unity and/or standard GNOME 3 with GNOME Shell. That article is now available to non-subscribers: https://lwn.net/Articles/465538/ There's a public Release Candidate ('RC') of Linux Mint 12 'Lisa' out (http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1858), which means the production release should emerge Real Soon Now. However, I keep telling people: For heaven's sake, the Linux world is a lot bigger than GNOME, KDE, and *ubuntu. If Xubuntu suits you, great! However, there's a lot more that _also_ would merit trying out. One such suggestion (and it's not even exactly daring, at that): Bodhi Linux, which is an unofficial Ubuntu variant based on the Enlightenment desktop environment. Back around 2000, when I was working with Enlightenment's two principal coders at VA Linux Systems, Enlightenment was more than a little bloated (and graphics-heavy), and seemed to have ongoing stability problems. No more. In a refreshing change, Enlightenment now qualifies as a lightweight environment, I hear, and the code has matured nicely. http://www.bodhilinux.com/ http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=bodhi From a_kleider at yahoo.com Thu Nov 17 15:49:10 2011 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:49:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What are you choosing as a replacement for your laptop? alex ? ________________________________ From: Michael Shiloh To: Samir Faci Cc: Linux userGroup Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? thanks samir. thanks to the advice on this list, i've switched to xubuntu, and am quite happy. i've downloaded but not yet tested linux mint. i'll actually be acquiring a new laptop in a couple of days (flung my trusty t60 off the counter at jameco...) so that might be a perfect time to try linux mint. On 11/17/2011 12:52 PM, Samir Faci wrote: > There are some Ubuntu derivatives which are far less annoying. > > I think the main ones are Kubuntu (KDE)? and Xubuntu (XFCE). > > I was never a fan of gnome, so I've always run the KDE version.? XFCE > is nice too, but more > lightweight.? You can also run Fedora, SuSe, Mandrake (I think those > are the basic easy to use distributions). > > Linux Mint is a distribution based on Ubuntu that has been making some > waves.? The latest > version seems really popular of late.? It actually passed Ubuntu on > terms of popularity so might be > worth looking into. > > For other ideas..? ? http://distrowatch.com/ > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Michael Shiloh > ? wrote: >> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. >> >> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for teaching >> various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part just works >> for my students. >> >> any recommendations? >> -- >> Michael Shiloh >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek >> KA6RCQ >> www.teachmetomake.com >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Thu Nov 17 15:52:17 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:52:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? In-Reply-To: <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4EC59E31.5090603@michaelshiloh.com> same thing - either t60 or t61, p or otherwise. i'm following a couple of options, ibm sells refurbished ones at an excellent price. they currently have a 20% discount as well as a free 1 year warrenty On 11/17/2011 03:49 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: > What are you choosing as a replacement for your laptop? > alex > *From:* Michael Shiloh > *To:* Samir Faci > *Cc:* Linux userGroup > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] alternatives to ubuntu? > > thanks samir. > > thanks to the advice on this list, i've switched to xubuntu, and am > quite happy. i've downloaded but not yet tested linux mint. > > i'll actually be acquiring a new laptop in a couple of days (flung my > trusty t60 off the counter at jameco...) so that might be a perfect time > to try linux mint. > > On 11/17/2011 12:52 PM, Samir Faci wrote: > > There are some Ubuntu derivatives which are far less annoying. > > > > I think the main ones are Kubuntu (KDE) and Xubuntu (XFCE). > > > > I was never a fan of gnome, so I've always run the KDE version. XFCE > > is nice too, but more > > lightweight. You can also run Fedora, SuSe, Mandrake (I think those > > are the basic easy to use distributions). > > > > Linux Mint is a distribution based on Ubuntu that has been making some > > waves. The latest > > version seems really popular of late. It actually passed Ubuntu on > > terms of popularity so might be > > worth looking into. > > > > For other ideas.. http://distrowatch.com/ > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 1:27 PM, Michael Shiloh > > > wrote: > >> i'm really hating unity, and i'm exploring alternatives to ubuntu. > >> > >> the main reason i chose ubuntu was that i use it as a platform for > teaching > >> various foss tools, and i need a distro that for the most part just > works > >> for my students. > >> > >> any recommendations? > >> -- > >> Michael Shiloh > >> Artist, designer, teacher, tinkerer, geek > >> KA6RCQ > >> www.teachmetomake.com > >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com > >> Interested in classes? Join > http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 14:18:29 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:18:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] any way to avoid firefox jumping to current workspace when clicking on a link in e.g. thunderbird? Message-ID: <4ECC1FB5.40404@gmail.com> i like to keep email and browsing on different workspaces. however, whenever i click on an http url in thunderbird, firefox bounces over to the current workspace. i want firefox to open the url, but to stay in its own workspace. anyone know how to do that? (in case you remember my recent queries, i'm typing this on my refurbished t61p running xubuntu. so far i'm happy, although i do have the nvidia gpu known to have overheating issues. i have 7 days to return if i want, and beyond that the one year warranty. not sure what i'll decide.) From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 22 14:56:59 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 14:56:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] any way to avoid firefox jumping to current workspace when clicking on a link in e.g. thunderbird? In-Reply-To: <4ECC1FB5.40404@gmail.com> References: <4ECC1FB5.40404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111122225658.GC14946@linuxmafia.com> Michael, I have your answer, and also a friendly suggestion about future queries, to help make it less likely to encounter the frustrating situation where nobody understands your problem well enough to help you. It's sadly common for people to fail to get help because they overdefined and misdefined the problem while describing it. Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > i like to keep email and browsing on different workspaces. ^^^^^^^^^^ Most of your readers won't know what you mean by 'workspace', because you didn't say. > however, whenever i click on an http url in thunderbird, firefox > bounces over to the current workspace. > > i want firefox to open the url, but to stay in its own workspace. > > anyone know how to do that? Your wording suggests that you're asking for help with Firefox configuration. As it turns out, your problem isn't with configuration of Firefox at all, but rather with configuration of _Xfce workspaces_. I figured that out from your passing mention of Xubuntu near the _bottom_ of your post. However, people will not be able to see past the misleading question, and thus you are unlikely to get useful answers. Anyway, upon looking up Xfce docs: http://wiki.xfce.org/faq#window_manager Firefox jumps between workspaces, why? When a new tab is opened from an external link in Firefox, it asks the WM to show the window containing the new tab. If the window that has requested to be raised is not on the current desktop, the Xfce Window manager will bring it to the current desktop by default. If you do not want this behavior, there is a hidden option to control this behavior. For Xfce 4.4 in ~/.config/xfce4/xfwm4/xfwm4rc you can put the following: activate_action=bring|switch|none For Xfce 4.6 you can go to Xfce Menu > Settings > Window Manager Tweaks and go to the tab Focus, or you need to use the xfconf-query tool to change the setting: xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/activate_action -s bring|switch|none As the name suggests, the "bring" option moves the window requesting to be raised to the current workspace, the "switch" option switches workspaces, and the "none" option takes no action. I had no idea about that, until I Web-searched for 'xfce workspace link', which brought up the correct answer -- as the first hit. From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Nov 22 15:18:40 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 15:18:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] any way to avoid firefox jumping to current workspace when clicking on a link in e.g. thunderbird? In-Reply-To: <20111122225658.GC14946@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ECC1FB5.40404@gmail.com> <20111122225658.GC14946@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4ECC2DD0.7060000@gmail.com> thanks, and thanks for the tip! i wasn't thinking. it should have occurred to me that (a) i should have given more info and (b) the window manager is probably the cause of this action. thanks! On 11/22/2011 02:56 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Michael, I have your answer, and also a friendly suggestion about future > queries, to help make it less likely to encounter the frustrating > situation where nobody understands your problem well enough to help you. > It's sadly common for people to fail to get help because they > overdefined and misdefined the problem while describing it. > > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> i like to keep email and browsing on different workspaces. > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Most of your readers won't know what you mean by 'workspace', because > you didn't say. > >> however, whenever i click on an http url in thunderbird, firefox >> bounces over to the current workspace. >> >> i want firefox to open the url, but to stay in its own workspace. >> >> anyone know how to do that? > > Your wording suggests that you're asking for help with Firefox > configuration. As it turns out, your problem isn't with configuration > of Firefox at all, but rather with configuration of _Xfce workspaces_. > I figured that out from your passing mention of Xubuntu near the > _bottom_ of your post. However, people will not be able to see past > the misleading question, and thus you are unlikely to get useful > answers. > > Anyway, upon looking up Xfce docs: http://wiki.xfce.org/faq#window_manager > > Firefox jumps between workspaces, why? > > When a new tab is opened from an external link in Firefox, it asks the > WM to show the window containing the new tab. If the window that has > requested to be raised is not on the current desktop, the Xfce Window > manager will bring it to the current desktop by default. If you do not > want this behavior, there is a hidden option to control this behavior. > For Xfce 4.4 in ~/.config/xfce4/xfwm4/xfwm4rc you can put the following: > > activate_action=bring|switch|none > > For Xfce 4.6 you can go to Xfce Menu> Settings> Window Manager Tweaks > and go to the tab Focus, or you need to use the xfconf-query tool to > change the setting: > > xfconf-query -c xfwm4 -p /general/activate_action -s bring|switch|none > > As the name suggests, the "bring" option moves the window > requesting to be raised to the current workspace, the "switch" > option switches workspaces, and the "none" option takes no > action. > > I had no idea about that, until I Web-searched for 'xfce workspace link', > which brought up the correct answer -- as the first hit. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Sun Nov 27 13:55:20 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 13:55:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> Message-ID: <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. What's a good way to sync work between them? My main job is teaching, so I have many teaching notes and other documents. Dropbox might be a good way to sync these. I'm going to be doing some 3D design so I'll have inkscape and blender files as well. Dropbox again, I think. What about browsing stuff? History, passwords, bookmarks. I use Vimperator, which has such a good history mechanism I rarely use bookmarks but rely heavily on history. I could put my entire .mozilla directory in Dropbox. In fact I could put all my . files (cshrc, vimrc, etc.) How do you prefer to handle mail? Do you prefer to keep it on the server or on your local computer? If local, how do you sync multiple computers? If remote, how do you work with past messages when offline? Up to now I've downloaded my gmail to my laptop and not deleted on the server. That gives me a local copy to work with if I have no Internet access, as well as an online backup I can access via my cellphone. Sent email is stored only on my laptop, meaning I don't have access to it when I'm away from my laptop. I've always felt this was not an ideal situation, but fixing this was not a high priority. Keeping everything on the server means I'll run out of space eventually, and keeping a local copy means I consume space on my hard drive. Concrete suggestions as well as your own persona experience and methods will be most appreciated. Years ago I remember reading about someone who had everything checked in to CVS, including all his email. This allowed him to sync his computer at home, work, elsewhere using CVS. Interesting solution. From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Nov 28 16:05:37 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:05:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets next Sunday December 4, 2011 Message-ID: <4ED421D1.5020903@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM. All meeting times are nominal. Linux Format magazine a UK publication seems to have improved lately, perhaps writers from the now online only Linux Journal have migrated? I intend to drag along the latest copies of the Linux Format and Linux Pro magazines so anyone who shows up can compare them. There is also a Linux Magazine for Developers and Users that is as well a UK magazine. I have a recent copy for perusal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From Markdude at fedoraproject.org Mon Nov 28 19:52:43 2011 From: Markdude at fedoraproject.org (Mark Terranova) Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:52:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora BBQ Dec and other FOSS events Message-ID: Hello all, Bay Area Mentoring Fedorans was recently formed to start a local community of people that use and/or support the Foundations of the Fedora Project (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations .) The first event they have planned is a release party for F16 at the Hacker Dojo. We will have a bbq with both meat and vegetarian options. http://events.hackerdojo.com/event/1155026-fedora-16-release-party-installfest-and-bbq . Daddy Shadowman is helping sponsor the event- so in addition to fresh copies of the new release - we will have some good swag. USB flash drives, stickers, temporary tattoos, case badges, etc. Just to make it more of a party for ALL folks - we also have a few Ubuntu case badges, and a few key covers (to cover the Microsoft logo.) We will also have a copy of Art of Community, by the esteemed Community Manager - Jono Bacon. He has another rock show on the 17th at Roosters Roadhouse. http://plancast.com/p/8pge/year-end-metal-bash Also: - Ubuntu Hour San Francisco at the Coffee Roastery - Wednesday, 14 Dec. 2011 at 18:00 PST http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1439/detail/ - Ubuntu Hour: Mountain View/Silicon Valley at Red Rock Coffee http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-california/1421/detail/ on Thursday, 15 Dec. 2011 at 19:00 PST BAMF will have another release event at Saxbys, https://www.facebook.com/SaxbysWC January 3rd of next year. All Hail Tux the Magnificent! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samir at esamir.com Tue Nov 29 08:58:26 2011 From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 10:58:26 -0600 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: Person opinions take with a grain of salt... inline responses. On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. What's a > good way to sync work between them? > > My main job is teaching, so I have many teaching notes and other > documents. Dropbox might be a good way to sync these. I'm going to be > doing some 3D design so I'll have inkscape and blender files as well. > Dropbox again, I think. I've used Dropbox and UbuntuOne for that. I think dropbox would be a better solution, though if you're purely Ubuntu.. UbuntuOne integrates pretty nicely into their ubuntu one default application set. > > What about browsing stuff? History, passwords, bookmarks. I use > Vimperator, which has such a good history mechanism I rarely use > bookmarks but rely heavily on history. I could put my entire .mozilla > directory in Dropbox. In fact I could put all my . files (cshrc, vimrc, > etc.) I use chrome mainly and it syncs / encrypts all your password, history, application, bookmarks etc... tied to your gmail account. If you use firefox, I think they have something called firefox sync that's similar. > How do you prefer to handle mail? Do you prefer to keep it on the server > or on your local computer? If local, how do you sync multiple computers? > If remote, how do you work with past messages when offline? I tend to use gmail for everything... I never had an issue not being able to access the server. (Not that it hasn't happened ). https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ejidjjhkpiempkbhmpbfngldlkglhimk (Gmail offline) I'm not sure if it's tied to the chromebooks or not. > > Up to now I've downloaded my gmail to my laptop and not deleted on the > server. That gives me a local copy to work with if I have no Internet > access, as well as an online backup I can access via my cellphone. > > Sent email is stored only on my laptop, meaning I don't have access to > it when I'm away from my laptop. > > I've always felt this was not an ideal situation, but fixing this was > not a high priority. Keeping everything on the server means I'll run out > of space eventually, and keeping a local copy means I consume space on > my hard drive. > > Concrete suggestions as well as your own persona experience and methods > will be most appreciated. > > Years ago I remember reading about someone who had everything checked in > to CVS, including all his email. This allowed him to sync his computer > at home, work, elsewhere using CVS. Interesting solution. I wouldn't even use CVS to store source code, let alone binary files. I've done something similar with git before...though I would not push my entire $HOME to version control. ie. I have a project that's essentially my cover letters, resumes and such. It's done in LaTex which is plain text... so I keep it in version control..and I can go back in time and see what I removed/added. I push my changes up to github, and then pull them down on another machine if I need to work on it... I don't think that any version control system is designed to store /manage gigs and gigs of binary data. So I would steer away from that personally. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow Sent from my non-iphone laptop. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 29 09:37:12 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 09:37:12 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. > What's a good way to sync work between them? rsync over ssh. > How do you prefer to handle mail? How *I* prefer to handle mail is an artifact of my basic approach to computing, which most people do not share. (I notice your use of third-party webmail, for example.) My basic approach is to do all my substantive computing on my linuxmafia.com server, so all my mail remains right there on the SMTP host, and I interact with it locally on the server via instances of the mutt MUA running 24x7 under GNU screen sessions that keep them running and accessible via ssh from wherever in the world I am at the moment. That happens to match my preferred computing model, and the fact that I really like mutt. However, for most other folks, that would not appeal. (But you did ask.) > If remote, how do you work with past messages when offline? I don't. That's the one drawback to my model (to the extent one might wish to do e-mail offline, which I really don't). > Years ago I remember reading about someone who had everything checked in > to CVS, including all his email. This allowed him to sync his computer > at home, work, elsewhere using CVS. Interesting solution. Joey Hess, friend of mine. Of course, any other VCS will work, and his article in _Linux Journal_ (preserved on his Web site) about that used CVS for the implementation because it was indeed many, many years ago. http://kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome/ Later, he used SVN: http://onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/01/06/svn_homedir.html http://kitenet.net/~joey/svnhome/ Today, Joey does it using git. There's a mailing list and related wiki for people doing such things: http://lists.madduck.net/listinfo/vcs-home http://vcs-home.branchable.com/ You'll find via the wiki and mailing list simple recipes based on people's experiences doing it. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 29 11:19:05 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 11:19:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111129191905.GO23376@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > > > I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. > > What's a good way to sync work between them? > > rsync over ssh. Here's an incredibly primitive example that should nonethless suffice to show the basic concept: :r! grep rsync /etc/crontab 3 15 * * * root rsync -e "/usr/bin/ssh -i /root/.ssh/svlugbackup" -ax "lists.svlug.org:/var/local/mailman/archives/private/{jobs.mbox,officers.mbox,smaug.mbox,speakers.mbox,svlug-announce.mbox,svlug.mbox,volunteers.mbox,web-team.mbox}/" /usr/local/src/rickstuff/svlug/mboxes At 3:15 AM every night, my server pulls down from SVLUG's mailing list server copies of the cumulative mbox files for all of the group's GNU Mailman mailing lists, for backup purposes. Given that those mailing lists have been in continuous operation since 1997 and the largest of them has had over 50,000 postings, the mboxes are pretty large: :r! ls -lh /usr/local/src/rickstuff/svlug/mboxes/ total 374M -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 4.3M Nov 15 15:44 jobs.mbox -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 16M May 12 2011 officers.mbox -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 12M Nov 17 19:30 smaug.mbox -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 2.5M Sep 25 2006 speakers.mbox -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 1.2M Nov 1 14:31 svlug-announce.mbox -rw-r--r-- 1 469 469 180M Nov 28 14:42 svlug.mbox -rw-r--r-- 1 469 469 25M Nov 26 10:52 volunteers.mbox -rw-rw-r-- 1 469 469 4.7M Oct 26 11:11 web-team.mbox Therefore, it's particularly handy that rsync sends over the wire only the _diff_ between what it already has and what's at the remote end. It never ceases to amaze me that so many people immediately think, when contemplating these sort of problems, of outsourcing to Dropbox and then stop any further discussion -- when they already have rsync at home. Possibly of additional interest: http://blog.hacker.dk/2008/10/dropbox-is-not-open-source/ http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-build-your-own-open-source-dropbox-clone/ From alchaiken at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 13:02:03 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:02:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael Shiloh asks: > I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. What's a > good way to sync work between them? > Dropbox might be a good way to sync these. I was using Dropbox last spring with my regular user account when it popped up and asked me for the root password on my system! I traced the request to a binary executable called /tmp/kde.f748e3 or somesuch, even though I was running the GNOME desktop. Once was enough for me: I stopped what I was doing and nuked Dropbox on all my systems. I used Dropbox for nothing weird or suspicious: I don't play PC games or download music using torrent or even watch many flash videos. I'd consider using KDE's SparkleShare, which is a drag-and-drop GUI interface for git. Instructions here: https://mairin.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/fedora-sparkleshare-howto/ If you're not using RPMs, you will have to source SparkleShare from elsewhere, but I believe that Ubuntu is also packaging it. I have been using plain old git to version-control and sync my files. I agree with previous posters that rsync may be your simplest option, too. I'm sure we can help you, Michael, if you have trouble getting rsync working. I'd like to use SparkleShare or git to backup files that sonic.net has for my web page, but was recently appalled to learn that the reason git won't install on sonic's webhosting server is because it's RedHat 7.3! Yes, not Fedora 7, but RedHat 7. This is intolerable. While I love sonic's ISP and phone service, can someone recommend another webhost where I can ssh and scp in and run git? My needs are pretty minimal since my web page is small and static, so AWS and its ilk would be overkill. Best wishes, Alison -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "If all we focus on is scaling, the only progress in society will be from FarmVille to FarmPlanet." ?-- Steve Yegge, paraphrasing From eric at ericwalstad.com Wed Nov 30 13:29:40 2011 From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 13:29:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <20111129191905.GO23376@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> <20111129191905.GO23376@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Rick Moen wrote: ... > Possibly of additional interest: > http://blog.hacker.dk/2008/10/dropbox-is-not-open-source/ > http://fak3r.com/geek/howto-build-your-own-open-source-dropbox-clone/ The fak3r link, above, uses an older, 1.X, version of lsyncd (which calls rsync to do its transfers). Here's a recipe that I got working on my Ubuntu box to implement DropBox-like backups using the version of lsyncd that comes with the latest version of Ubuntu. CRUD a file in the source directory and the changes will propagate to the remote machine: Create a DropBox clone with lsyncd Configure the source machine sudo apt-get install \ lsyncd \ rsync \ openssh-client The default config file goes in /etc/lsyncd/lsyncd.conf.lua. You may have to create that file; it doesn't appear to get created by apt-get install. Here's an example config file that syncs /path/to/some_dir to REMOTEHOST: settings = { logfile = "/tmp/lsyncd.log", statusFile = "/tmp/lsyncd.status", maxProcesses = 1, } sync{ default.rsyncssh, source="/path/to/some_dir", -- EDIT THIS host="USERNAME at REMOTEHOST", -- THIS targetdir="/path/to/backup_dir/some_dir", -- THIS rsyncOps={ "--links", -- copy symlinks as symlinks "--times", -- preserve modification times "--update", -- skip files that are newer on the receiver -- The -s arg (no space-splitting; wildcard chars only) didn't work for -- me. I got the following error when I include it: -- rsync: on remote machine: -sltre.iLsf: unknown option -- rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at main.c(1318) [server=2.6.9] "--rsh", -- specify the remote shell to use "/usr/bin/ssh -C -p2222", -- AND THIS pass along ssh arguments here (compress & use port 2222) } } Test it on the command line in -nodaemon mode: lsyncd -nodaemon /path/to/lsyncd.conf.lua Now create/edit a file in your source directory (/path/to/some_dir) and after a few seconds it should get rsync'd to your remote machine. Assumes that you have ssh keys set up on the remote machine. See also: https://github.com/axkibe/lsyncd/ http://code.google.com/p/lsyncd/wiki/Lsyncd20Manual hth, EW PS, Thanks Rick for pointing out the fak3er link. I'm looking forward to using the lsyncd method in the future! From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Nov 30 14:51:38 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:51:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alison Chaiken (alchaiken at gmail.com): > I'd consider using KDE's SparkleShare, which is a drag-and-drop GUI > interface for git. Instructions here: > > https://mairin.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/fedora-sparkleshare-howto/ Ooh, nice. Looks like a Python / kdelibs / qt front-end to git. > I'd like to use SparkleShare or git to backup files that sonic.net has > for my web page, but was recently appalled to learn that the reason > git won't install on sonic's webhosting server is because it's RedHat > 7.3! Aaaugh! Last updated Dec. 31, 2003. Wow, whoever's updating that host must be a masochist. At least, one _hopes_ they're updating it. Meanwhile, for my sins, I'm working with a bunch of technophobes to collaborately edit and proofread material that (in the final stages) gets loaded into Adobe InDesign for DTPing. The guy running the project is doing it by file-attaching ASCIl or RTF files back and forth. He asked me what 'cloud provider' I would use instead. I said, personally: none of the above. That _if_ I were working with people willing to use standard Unix tools, I would just give them all shell accounts on my Linux server, create a VCS repo (e.g., git) for the project, and have them SSH their changes into and out of the repo. Thus: Solution in ten minutes, I said. However, I immediately added that I was aware that wasn't realistic, because I'd get no farther with most of the volunteers than their saying 'SS-what?' I've started looking around to see if someone's done a novice-friendly graphical Web front-end for remote interaction over HTTPS with a VCS repo -- thus end-running around novice trauma over the need to deal with standard Unix tools, and instead use only bog-standard Web browser point-and-drool. Haven't found one yet. Leads welcomed. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Nov 30 14:55:29 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:55:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> <20111129191905.GO23376@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111130225529.GK791@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Eric Walstad (eric at ericwalstad.com): > Create a DropBox clone with lsyncd [...] Very impressive. Thanks! From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 14:59:43 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:59:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4ED6B55F.4090107@gmail.com> Sometimes I miss the old days of running my own server in my garage. What you describe is how I did it in the old days, and yes, I used CVS back then too. Now I have no personal server, and I don't think I have a static IP either. M On 11/29/2011 09:37 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> I now have two laptops which I'll use somewhat interchangeably. >> What's a good way to sync work between them? > > rsync over ssh. > >> How do you prefer to handle mail? > > How *I* prefer to handle mail is an artifact of my basic approach to > computing, which most people do not share. (I notice your use of > third-party webmail, for example.) My basic approach is to do all my > substantive computing on my linuxmafia.com server, so all my mail > remains right there on the SMTP host, and I interact with it locally on > the server via instances of the mutt MUA running 24x7 under GNU screen > sessions that keep them running and accessible via ssh from wherever in > the world I am at the moment. > > That happens to match my preferred computing model, and the fact that I > really like mutt. However, for most other folks, that would not appeal. > (But you did ask.) > >> If remote, how do you work with past messages when offline? > > I don't. That's the one drawback to my model (to the extent one might > wish to do e-mail offline, which I really don't). > > >> Years ago I remember reading about someone who had everything checked in >> to CVS, including all his email. This allowed him to sync his computer >> at home, work, elsewhere using CVS. Interesting solution. > > Joey Hess, friend of mine. Of course, any other VCS will work, and his > article in _Linux Journal_ (preserved on his Web site) about that used > CVS for the implementation because it was indeed many, many years ago. > http://kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome/ > Later, he used SVN: > http://onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/01/06/svn_homedir.html > http://kitenet.net/~joey/svnhome/ > Today, Joey does it using git. > > There's a mailing list and related wiki for people doing such things: > http://lists.madduck.net/listinfo/vcs-home > http://vcs-home.branchable.com/ > > You'll find via the wiki and mailing list simple recipes based on > people's experiences doing it. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, tinkerer, teacher, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Nov 30 15:03:15 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 15:03:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4ED6B633.30805@gmail.com> On 11/29/2011 09:37 AM, Rick Moen wrote: >> Years ago I remember reading about someone who had everything checked in >> to CVS, including all his email. This allowed him to sync his computer >> at home, work, elsewhere using CVS. Interesting solution. > > Joey Hess, friend of mine. Of course, any other VCS will work, and his > article in _Linux Journal_ (preserved on his Web site) about that used > CVS for the implementation because it was indeed many, many years ago. > http://kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome/ > Later, he used SVN: > http://onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/01/06/svn_homedir.html > http://kitenet.net/~joey/svnhome/ > Today, Joey does it using git. Yep, that's the guy. Tell him thanks! > > There's a mailing list and related wiki for people doing such things: > http://lists.madduck.net/listinfo/vcs-home > http://vcs-home.branchable.com/ > > You'll find via the wiki and mailing list simple recipes based on > people's experiences doing it. Will check it out. Thanks! From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Nov 30 19:11:13 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:11:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4ED6B55F.4090107@gmail.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <20111129173711.GN23376@linuxmafia.com> <4ED6B55F.4090107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111201031113.GN791@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > Sometimes I miss the old days of running my own server in my garage. Funny thing: Mine's in my garage. ;-> uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com aka linuxmafia.com (which runs this mailing list, among other things) is currently an antique-ish 2001-era VA Linux Systems model 2230 2U rackmount box, 1 * 750 MHz PIII CPU, 1.5 GB RAM, i 2 * 18 GB mirrored pair of SCSI drives for main array (one of them currently dead and needing replacement), 73 GB single SCSI drive for extra storage. Works for Me. It's the fourth machine to serve that role. First was a home-built box with an AMI Enterprise III EISA/VLB motherboard and 486DX2/66 CPU, 64 MB RAM. Which survived being Slashdotted several times without breaking a sweat. That was replaced by a homebuilt AMD K6/233 box, which in turn was replaced by a 1998-era VA Research model 500 with 1 * 500 MHz PIII, which was destroyed by a wind and lightning storm on April 15, 2009[1], leading to several hours of downtime, before I quickly deployed the current box as a replacement, and gradual restoration of public services followed over the next few days. (Sorry, folks.) > Now I have no personal server, and I don't think I have a static IP either. rsync over ssh nonetheless is your most obvious tool, I think. Depending on what gives your laptops their DHCP leases, there are a variety of ways to deal with the annoyance of changeable IPs. [1] http://linuxmafia.com/news.html From Embedded.Linux.Guy at gmail.com Fri Dec 2 15:48:53 2011 From: Embedded.Linux.Guy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 18:48:53 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: MediaWiki has a vcs backend. On Nov 30, 2011 2:54 PM, "Rick Moen" wrote: > > Quoting Alison Chaiken (alchaiken at gmail.com): > > > I'd consider using KDE's SparkleShare, which is a drag-and-drop GUI > > interface for git. Instructions here: > > > > https://mairin.wordpress.com/2011/05/25/fedora-sparkleshare-howto/ > > Ooh, nice. Looks like a Python / kdelibs / qt front-end to git. > > > I'd like to use SparkleShare or git to backup files that sonic.net has > > for my web page, but was recently appalled to learn that the reason > > git won't install on sonic's webhosting server is because it's RedHat > > 7.3! > > Aaaugh! Last updated Dec. 31, 2003. Wow, whoever's updating that > host must be a masochist. At least, one _hopes_ they're updating it. > > > Meanwhile, for my sins, I'm working with a bunch of technophobes to > collaborately edit and proofread material that (in the final stages) > gets loaded into Adobe InDesign for DTPing. The guy running the project > is doing it by file-attaching ASCIl or RTF files back and forth. > > He asked me what 'cloud provider' I would use instead. I said, > personally: none of the above. That _if_ I were working with people > willing to use standard Unix tools, I would just give them all shell > accounts on my Linux server, create a VCS repo (e.g., git) for the > project, and have them SSH their changes into and out of the repo. > Thus: Solution in ten minutes, I said. > > However, I immediately added that I was aware that wasn't realistic, > because I'd get no farther with most of the volunteers than their saying > 'SS-what?' > > I've started looking around to see if someone's done a novice-friendly > graphical Web front-end for remote interaction over HTTPS with a VCS > repo -- thus end-running around novice trauma over the need to deal with > standard Unix tools, and instead use only bog-standard Web browser > point-and-drool. Haven't found one yet. Leads welcomed. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 2 17:03:39 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 17:03:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111203010339.GK23481@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (Embedded.Linux.Guy at gmail.com): > MediaWiki has a vcs backend. Almost all wikis have VCS back-ends. Unfortunately, that is the wrong tool for the problem space I spoke of, which is user-local editing of sets of plaintext or RTF files, coordinated via a droolproof user-authenticated Web front end to a shared VCS repo. From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Sat Dec 3 14:45:17 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 17:45:17 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: <20111203010339.GK23481@linuxmafia.com> References: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> <20111203010339.GK23481@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Almost all wikis have VCS back-ends. ?Unfortunately, that is the wrong > tool for the problem space I spoke of, which is user-local editing of > sets of plaintext or RTF files, coordinated via a droolproof > user-authenticated Web front end to a shared VCS repo. MediaWiki with ItsAllText would technically permit local editing of plaintext, although perhaps with some hassle to accommodate totally-offline users. I imagine you are looking for something using HTML-form file upload or perhaps WebDAV. Maybe one of the open groupware/project collaboration suites could support this use case with its "file sharing" features e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindquarry From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Dec 3 15:48:55 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 15:48:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 70, Issue 16 In-Reply-To: References: <20111130225138.GJ791@linuxmafia.com> <20111203010339.GK23481@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20111203234855.GP23481@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Wladyslaw Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com): > MediaWiki with ItsAllText would technically permit local editing of > plaintext, although perhaps with some hassle to accommodate > totally-offline users. That's still a stand-on-your-head-and-imagine-it's-a-different-problem solution. But I thank you for trying. > I imagine you are looking for something using HTML-form file upload or > perhaps WebDAV. No. Maybe. Sort of. I'm talking about a bunch of technophobes who on a good day can pointy-clicky through AOL 2.0 (I mean Facebook) and Twitter, with their Web browsers, attempting to copyedit a bunch of English-language files in a variety of formats including one nitwit who pointlessly embeds plain ASCII in .docx, and receiving and commenting on and 'shooping' and resubmitting image files in a variety of formats, towards production of a several-page newsletter that is eventually put together in Adobe InDesign and then sent out in PDF and dead-tree formats. These are people who would faint if I said 'ssh' or 'git'. So, their idea of a solution, to date, has been either Google Docs or e-mailing sets of file-attachments back and forth. And I know better than to try to teach them to use real tools. > Maybe one of the open groupware/project collaboration suites could > support this use case with its "file sharing" features e.g. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindquarry I'm hoping to find something a _lot_ more lightweight and less overengineered than a groupware suite. (I mean, tasks and a wiki and teams, and written as Java servlets? Just slash my wrists and have done with it, please.) But thank you for the suggestion. From mikkimc at earthlink.net Sun Dec 4 13:23:42 2011 From: mikkimc at earthlink.net (Mikki McGee) Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2011 13:23:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] installing a Canon "i560" photo printer, on : eeebuntu and/or Ubuntu 6.06 In-Reply-To: <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4EDBE4DE.2090204@earthlink.net> Hello, All; Well, maybe I am learning --- maybe. A friend just donated a Canon 'i560' to my collection of antique, out of date equipment. My previous plan, previous to the printer dying, was to wait until Ubuntu 12.x lts came out and wait a month for the issue to be settled, then have either Zareason or some expert bring my systems up to date with a laser printer, or replace all. Now I have two old systems, and a printer that neither seem to support. Has anyone had experience installing the "i560" on Ubuntu 6.06 or eeeBuntu, or a similar system, and/or advice about it? I have become leery of trying to "wing it." I probably can wing it with the double-boot Windows XP ( vs. U6.06), but prefer not to use Windows at all, except in dire emergency. The on line information may someday become intelligible to me . . . . Bless All Mikki From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun Dec 4 14:47:52 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 14:47:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] installing a Canon "i560" photo printer, on : eeebuntu and/or Ubuntu 6.06 In-Reply-To: <4EDBE4DE.2090204@earthlink.net> References: <4EC16B99.60909@gmail.com> <4EC574A8.8020209@michaelshiloh.com> <1321573750.21610.YahooMailNeo@web36505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4EDBE4DE.2090204@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20111204224752.GE4264@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > Hello, All; > > Well, maybe I am learning --- maybe. > > A friend just donated a Canon 'i560' to my collection of antique, > out of date equipment. Short answer: If I had to set up that printer, I'd try CUPS + Gutenprint first, which is then said to autodetect the printer (on USB only) and print well. If that doesn't work, gimp-print and select BJC-7000. You picked another slightly challenging bit of hardware, but maybe the above method will be painless. Background: This is a bubblejet colour printer, and unfortunately it's a classic example of manufacturers of cheap colour printers regarding all information about how to support them as 'secret sauce' to be hidden lest competitors be able to study their hardware, so they refuse to cooperate with the open source community. This entry at Openprinting.org suggests that the 'gutenprint' selection of filters ('drivers') automatically support it: http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Canon/Canon-i560 See also: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupportComponentsPrintersCanon Other discussions claim you can just select 'BJC-7000' in the gimp-print selection of filters, and that that works well enough. (The BJC-7000 was/is another, apparently very similar Canon bubblejet.) Digression about widespread bad advice you will find: If you search the Web for canon i560 linux ...as I did, _most_ of the advice you will find, especially on ubuntuforums.org, linuxforums.org, linuxquestions.org, and other new-user-dominated Web forums, will tell you to download and use a proprietary filter set contained in two files (bjfiltercups-2.4-0.i386.rpm and bjfilterpixusXXXi-2.4-0.i386.rpm), which are slightly broken already and require you to chase down a package to provide required old libraries libpng.so.2 and libtiff3g . A lot of people, especially new users, end up having to learn the hard way that going for proprietary hardware drivers / filters is often an exercise in short-term masochism, and also tends to lead to long-term system fragility (because, being proprietary, the code in question cannot be maintained by the open source community). Unfortunately, because those users flock together on said Web forums, they hear a lot of really bad advice (IMO). From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Tue Dec 6 05:25:11 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 05:25:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] current inkjet printer recommendations? Message-ID: <20111206052511.71323co3dv06tuww@webmail.rawbw.com> Yes, I know the many *dis*advantages[1] of inkjet printers, *but* ... they do have some advantages[2], and in at least this particular case, I'm looking for top current recommendations with the following approximate criteria: o *reasonable* / "fair" ink cartridge/refill pricing - even quite/much better if "generic" cartridges and/or refills are accepted (in more recent year(s), I've even seen some manufacturers tout their (much?) lower refill cost and lower overall operating cost as a selling feature, and sold their printers for significantly more than other manufacturers (e.g. not sell them at an initial loss and make it up later on locked-in ink supplies). Don't know if they're "winning" on that higher up front and lower total operating cost sales strategy, but good to at least see some of 'em try!). o We're probably looking at <~=50 pages/year here. Something that would likely do that rather to quite well for at least 3, if not 5 or more (perhaps as many as 10 or more?) years would be good. o Don't really need or care about "all in one" or similar functionality (but if that functionality happens to be good/excellent, without compromising printing and other considerations noted, and with negligible increase in price, such may be well considered). o Don't need or care about other random "snazzy" features (e.g. quite improbable anyone's going to want to stick some photo image memory card into printer and print out stuff from that, or anything close to that). o Bonus points for printers that are reasonably "mom" (or grandma) "friendly" - especially in continued operation (they'll probably have fair amount of assistance available with initial setup). o Linux compatibility? Not particularly crucial or important that the printer work or work well with Linux *now* (e.g. already fully supported), but if it's rather to quite probable it will be fairly to very well supported on Linux in about 6 months time or less, that's a definite plus (primary target host isn't running Linux presently - but hopefully that will change :-) It's presently got some Windows 7 something-or-another on it. Fairly likely it'll at least be dual boot with Linux in future, but rather likely it'll also retain that 'doze boot option for a fair while). Thanks in advance for any suggestions/recommendations. 1. E.g. often low construction quality, (overpriced) ink cartridge "lock in", very high per-page printing costs, etc. 2. E.g. much lower power consumption compared to laser (& fuser) printing (there's also cold press fixer - with considerably lower power consumption than fuser, but those seem to be quite in the minority - at least for smaller laser printers, anyway), don't potentially have to deal with messy toner, typically (much) less weight, are or can be significantly more portable. From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 10:22:58 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:22:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> Message-ID: <4EDE5D82.2050905@gmail.com> On 11/29/2011 08:58 AM, Samir Faci wrote: >> How do you prefer to handle mail? Do you prefer to keep it on the server >> or on your local computer? If local, how do you sync multiple computers? >> If remote, how do you work with past messages when offline? > > I tend to use gmail for everything... I never had an issue not being > able to access > the server. (Not that it hasn't happened ). > > https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ejidjjhkpiempkbhmpbfngldlkglhimk > (Gmail offline) I'm not sure if it's > tied to the chromebooks or not. Looks interesting, but not supported in Firefox. I'd love to move from FF to Chrome, but I'm addicted to vimperator and that's not available for Chrome yet (there are a couple of vi chrome extension, but not nearly as extensive as vimperator yet). I have two laptops now, both with SpiderOak, Ubuntu One, and DropBox. I'm testing them all. Thanks again for all your tips. This continues to be an interesting conversation as other people join in and offer advice. It's far from done. My next big project is to sync my thunderbird directory... From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 6 10:54:36 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 10:54:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4EDE5D82.2050905@gmail.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <4EDE5D82.2050905@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111206185436.GV4264@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > I'd love to move from FF to Chrome.... FYI, just in case you were not aware, Chrome is a proprietary, binary-only browser whose code and functionality inherently cannot be even inspected by the open source community, let alone independently maintained / fixed / adapted / updated. There is also a lingering issue of conflict of interest that doesn't apply to other good proprietary Web browsers such as Opera. (See below about Google, Inc.'s conflict of interest problem.) If you're already aware of all this, no problem. It's of course entirely your call. More at: http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.odp or http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.pdf (slides) and http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.txt Lecture notes for those slides. > ...but I'm addicted to vimperator and that's not > available for Chrome yet (there are a couple of vi chrome extension, > but not nearly as extensive as vimperator yet). The adblocking and anti-tracking measures available for Chrome (and even for Chromium) are thus far not as effective as those for Firefox -- leaving aside the fact that one cannot be entirely sure what a proprietary, binary-only Web browser is doing behind your back, anyway. Cynical people might think Chrome/Chromium's relative weakness at adblocking and anti-tracking predictable in a browser written and maintained by the firm that purchased DoubleClick, Inc. in 2008 for $3.1B, and whose business model relies on targeted advertising and user tracking, but you be the judge. From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 19:04:38 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2011 19:04:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <20111206185436.GV4264@linuxmafia.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <4EDE5D82.2050905@gmail.com> <20111206185436.GV4264@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4EDED7C6.20808@gmail.com> good points all. forget chrome. m On 12/06/2011 10:54 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> I'd love to move from FF to Chrome.... > > FYI, just in case you were not aware, Chrome is a proprietary, > binary-only browser whose code and functionality inherently cannot be > even inspected by the open source community, let alone independently > maintained / fixed / adapted / updated. There is also a lingering > issue of conflict of interest that doesn't apply to other good > proprietary Web browsers such as Opera. (See below about Google, Inc.'s > conflict of interest problem.) If you're already aware of all this, no > problem. It's of course entirely your call. > > More at: http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.odp > or http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.pdf > (slides) > > and > > http://www.svlug.org/prev/2011feb/svlug-lecture-2011-02-02.txt > Lecture notes for those slides. > >> ...but I'm addicted to vimperator and that's not >> available for Chrome yet (there are a couple of vi chrome extension, >> but not nearly as extensive as vimperator yet). > > The adblocking and anti-tracking measures available for Chrome (and even > for Chromium) are thus far not as effective as those for Firefox -- > leaving aside the fact that one cannot be entirely sure what a > proprietary, binary-only Web browser is doing behind your back, anyway. > Cynical people might think Chrome/Chromium's relative weakness at > adblocking and anti-tracking predictable in a browser written and > maintained by the firm that purchased DoubleClick, Inc. in 2008 for > $3.1B, and whose business model relies on targeted advertising and user > tracking, but you be the judge. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, tinkerer, teacher, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 6 20:12:26 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:12:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1323231146.84700.YahooMailRC@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 6 20:35:11 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:35:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What's the best way to sync two laptops? In-Reply-To: <4EDED7C6.20808@gmail.com> References: <4ED28F96.3090204@cca.edu> <4ED2B1C8.2020301@michaelshiloh.com> <4EDE5D82.2050905@gmail.com> <20111206185436.GV4264@linuxmafia.com> <4EDED7C6.20808@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111207043511.GC12887@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > good points all. forget chrome. Don't get me wrong: It has some excellent innovations, and I particularly urge keeping track of Chromium, the 100% open source based on which Chrome is based (and which I keep installed on my machines). It's a very good webkit-based browser, and is here to stay. I'm wary of becoming reliant on code from a firm so deeply in conflict of interest, though (not to mention Chromium's weakness in the area of Adblock Plus, etc.), so Firefox remains my primary browser. Your Mileage May Differ. From grantbow at ubuntu.com Wed Dec 7 02:54:10 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 02:54:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge In-Reply-To: <1323231146.84700.YahooMailRC@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1323231146.84700.YahooMailRC@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 8:12 PM, Joseph Puig wrote: > The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to > 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. > > Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San > Francisco. > > Info: ?www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net > > Joseph Hi Joseph, I'm looking forward to seeing everyone again on Wednesday. I just got back last night from my three month visit to Nairobi, Kenya. If folks are interested I can talk about the iHub collaboration space in Nairobi, teaching at nairobits.org, collaborating using webchat.freenode.net, hacking wordpress.org (PHP), hacking status.net (PHP) and other open source software packages. Cheers, Grant Bowman From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Wed Dec 7 11:12:33 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 11:12:33 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Report on SF-LUG meeting on December 4 Message-ID: <4EDFBAA1.6060100@dslextreme.com> Well this meeting was well-attended with 6 attendees. Arrived just as John Strazziano showed up He bought me a decaf soy latte and Ken Shaeffer. was next in then Jeff, Jim Stockford and Eric finally Biggest meeting in a month or so. My Notebook refused to contact the local access point. It worked with Mint but failed to work with Ubuntu or Mandriva. But Ken Schaeffer also told us about his new tablet, the Chumby which comes with Linux. Below is the lead-in paragraphs to his notes which are a total of over 160 lines. If anyone wants the full notes send me an e-mail and if I get enough requests just might put it up on the list. I got a chumby 8 from Woot for $120 in November. This is the device seen in store.chumby.com, for a list price of $199. The best price I see on Amazon is $155, but I bet it will be cheaper in Jan. By itself, the Chumby is billed as an "Internet Radio", running apps written in Flashlite, and can be used as a clock, digital picture frame, email reader, web browser, weather reporter,... but since it runs Linux, and has no root password, and comes with sshd, and documents how to put hooks into the boot sequence, you can do pretty much anything. It runs Linux kernel 2.6,28M on a Marvell PXA168 ARM9 800Mhz cpu, has 2G flash (as device mmcblk0) with four partitions, 128M memory (and 128M swap), two USB 2.0 ports (maybe only one HS), an SD slot, a CF slot, built in microphone, headphone jack, stereo speakers, 8" 800x600 resistive touchscreen, 5V 2.5A power connector, 802.11 bg WiFi, and a dimmable backlight. I hope when Ken? schedule is cleared of family matters he will be able to do a presentation on this and chow us the Chumby. Bobbie Sellers From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Wed Dec 7 12:18:48 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 12:18:48 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Some Linux news: Android 4.0, Cynanogen Mod on Kindle, etc Message-ID: <4EDFCA28.5070505@dslextreme.com> Ice Cream Sandwich is Android 4.0 for x86 Ubuntu Alpha 12.04 released Cyanogen Mod-7 hacked onto the Kindle Fire openSUSE Moves Forward with 12.1 Release Jumping right past a 12.0 release, the openSUSE project is advancing its Linux distribution, as Linux itself continues to advance the world of supercomputers and PaaS. Linux Mint 12 Revives Classic GNOME Desktop Linux Mint 12 debuts as the Linux desktop and kernel advance Hope someone will find these a bit interesting. Happy Holidays to all Bobbie Sellers From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Wed Dec 7 19:08:52 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:08:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 16 and broadband USB Message-ID: <4EE02A44.2050804@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nbs at sonic.net Fri Dec 9 10:51:17 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 10:51:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, December 19: "How to provide non-technical users with dual-stack IPv6+IPv4 connectivity" Message-ID: <201112091851.pB9IpHie019982@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting: Monday December 19, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "How to provide non-technical users with dual-stack IPv6+IPv4 connectivity" Graham Freeman IPv6 doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, end-users don't even need to know it exists. In this talk, I'll explain how to transparently and reliably deliver dual-stack IPv6+IPv4 connectivity to non-technical end-users, whether or not your ISP supports IPv6. About the Speaker: In his professional life, Graham uses technology to empower people. In his personal life, Graham enjoys biking around Berkeley with his toddler and adapting 21st-century technology to his 70-year-old wooden sailboat. This meeting will be held at: Yolo County Public Librar, Davis Branch 315 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From jim at systemateka.com Tue Dec 13 00:14:53 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 00:14:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] December BayPIGgies meeting: Thursday, December 15, 2011: What Is Pythonic? Message-ID: <1323764093.1725.164.camel@jim-LAPTOP> December BayPIGgies meeting: Thursday, December 15, 2011:What Is Pythonic? Speaker Marilyn Davis Abstract: Marilyn will give a clear, succinct, and hopefully, thought-provoking, definition for the word "pythonic". She'll explain a few concepts that help you to produce pythonic code. And, using her definition, she will give code examples and pythonic ratings, from 0 to 10, for various snippets of code. We'll leave time for others to share their snippets of code. So bring any code or thoughts that you consider to be particular pythonic, or un-pythonic, or that just leave you curious. We'll try to work together to pythonisize any code example, and put a rating on it. Bio: Marilyn Davis earned a Ph.D. in Radio Astronomy from UCSD, and Master's degrees in Applied Physics from UCSD, and in Mathematics from Denver University. Computer programming and teaching captured her imagination and she has made significant contributions in scientific, environmental, statistical, operations research, test-development, and electronic democracy applications. After teaching C Programming at UCSC-Extension for many years, she met Python and immediately recognized it as a big boon to software engineering. Marilyn currently conducts Python training classes in various companies through PythonTrainer.Com, and at UCSC-Extension in Santa Clara. http://pythontrainer.com ......................................... LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 8:25 PM (or so) ................ The talk: What Is Pythonic? ..... 8:25 PM to 8:55 PM (or so) ................ Questions and Answers ..... 8:55 PM to 9:30 PM (or so) ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, events, and other topics. Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the announcements and other interests. From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Tue Dec 13 09:34:57 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 09:34:57 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets next Monday December 19 Message-ID: <4EE78CC1.7060206@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 14 09:48:12 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 09:48:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1323884892.52230.YahooMailRC@web83812.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 12:23:59 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:23:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Grrr: San Francisco State University Financial Aid prejudiced against Linux users Message-ID: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> I was able to submit my application to grad school just fine, but when it came time to apply for financial aid was hit by: [Mozilla/5.0 (Ubuntu; X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0] [BrowserDetectService:OS[LINUX_UBUNTU] browser[FIREFOX] browser version[UNKNOWN] AppName[FAFSA1112] detection status [BLOCKED]] Can I ask my browser to lie for me? From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Dec 14 12:35:03 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 12:35:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Grrr: San Francisco State University Financial Aid prejudiced against Linux users In-Reply-To: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> References: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111214203503.GY12887@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > I was able to submit my application to grad school just fine, but > when it came time to apply for financial aid was hit by: > > > [Mozilla/5.0 (Ubuntu; X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0] > [BrowserDetectService:OS[LINUX_UBUNTU] browser[FIREFOX] browser > version[UNKNOWN] AppName[FAFSA1112] detection status [BLOCKED]] > > Can I ask my browser to lie for me? Hell yeah. http://chrispederick.com/work/user-agent-switcher/ Don't leave $HOME without it. More at: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/?page=kicking#linuxbrowser http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Web/user-agent-string.html -- Cheers, Rick Moen Every time you make a typo, the errorists win. rick at linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) From voyager640 at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 13:04:29 2011 From: voyager640 at gmail.com (James Sheldon) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:04:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Grrr: San Francisco State University Financial Aid prejudiced against Linux users In-Reply-To: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> References: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: Generally you can't submit the FAFSA until after the 1st of the year. If you're applying for graduate school and plan to start next Fall (Fall '12), you're going to want to fill out the 2012-13 FAFSA, not the 2011-12... On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > I was able to submit my application to grad school just fine, but when it > came time to apply for financial aid was hit by: > > > [Mozilla/5.0 (Ubuntu; X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0] > [BrowserDetectService:OS[LINUX_UBUNTU] browser[FIREFOX] browser > version[UNKNOWN] AppName[FAFSA1112] detection status [BLOCKED]] > > Can I ask my browser to lie for me? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ james sheldon @ http://www.jamessheldon.com @ "those who fail to reread @ are obliged to read the same story everywhere" @ -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970) @ voyager640 at gmail.com @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 13:18:28 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:18:28 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Grrr: San Francisco State University Financial Aid prejudiced against Linux users In-Reply-To: <20111214203503.GY12887@linuxmafia.com> References: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> <20111214203503.GY12887@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4EE912A4.5090602@gmail.com> that did it! thanks! On 12/14/2011 12:35 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> I was able to submit my application to grad school just fine, but >> when it came time to apply for financial aid was hit by: >> >> >> [Mozilla/5.0 (Ubuntu; X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0] >> [BrowserDetectService:OS[LINUX_UBUNTU] browser[FIREFOX] browser >> version[UNKNOWN] AppName[FAFSA1112] detection status [BLOCKED]] >> >> Can I ask my browser to lie for me? > > Hell yeah. > > http://chrispederick.com/work/user-agent-switcher/ > Don't leave $HOME without it. > > More at: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/?page=kicking#linuxbrowser > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Web/user-agent-string.html > -- Michael Shiloh Artist, designer, tinkerer, teacher, geek KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 13:43:38 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:43:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Grrr: San Francisco State University Financial Aid prejudiced against Linux users In-Reply-To: References: <4EE905DF.6060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4EE9188A.6030808@michaelshiloh.com> yeah, i just discovered that... thanks! are you at sfsu? what dept? On 12/14/2011 01:04 PM, James Sheldon wrote: > Generally you can't submit the FAFSA until after the 1st of the year. > If you're applying for graduate school and plan to start next Fall > (Fall '12), you're going to want to fill out the 2012-13 FAFSA, not > the 2011-12... > > On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> I was able to submit my application to grad school just fine, but when it >> came time to apply for financial aid was hit by: >> >> >> [Mozilla/5.0 (Ubuntu; X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/8.0] >> [BrowserDetectService:OS[LINUX_UBUNTU] browser[FIREFOX] browser >> version[UNKNOWN] AppName[FAFSA1112] detection status [BLOCKED]] >> >> Can I ask my browser to lie for me? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > From joebaker at dcresearch.com Wed Dec 14 15:52:13 2011 From: joebaker at dcresearch.com (Joe) Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:52:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] OpenERP Meetup: Live webcast Today Message-ID: <4EE936AD.9020305@dcresearch.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tonight there is a live webcast of the first OpenERP meetup group as I understand it at 6:00 PM Pacific time. I'm forwarding this notice to SF-LUG. I learned about the OpenERP project from Gary Nutbeam a member of the Milwaukee Linux Group MLUG (where I hale from). It's a really cool project written with PostgreSQL. Python and a web framework, Turbogears that gives you AJAX live responsiveness. It also has a client application besides the web client. I've learned that we can tune in over the net. - ------------------------------------ Dear OpenERP enthusiasts, Our first Monthly Meetup will take place tonight at OpenERP US (6:00PM PST). For the ones of you who will not be present in person, we will be webcasting live through ustream.tv at the following address: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/openerpmeetup This is the first OpenERP Monthly Meetup and the first time OpenERP will be webcasting a live event. We want to be all about accessibility and transparency. In that regard, it is not impossible that a technical issue arises in the middle of the webcast for whatever reason: crash of a stream, audio/video desync, room environment noise. If any of this happen, I would suggest you to report it in the ustream chat, or to comment on the meetup event afterwards so we can improve our technical installation for next time. The full session will be recorded, so you will also have the chance to watch it at a later time. If you have any other remarks or ideas to improve our meetups, don't hesitate to communicate on the meetup page at http://www.meetup.com/openerp through one of the available channels (the mailing list seems to be the most adequate). Talk to you soon, __ Fabrice - -- Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list (openerp-list at meetup.com) This message was sent by Fabrice (bigboudda at gmail.com) from The OpenERP Meetup Group. To learn more about Fabrice, visit his/her member profile Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | support at meetup.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk7pNq0ACgkQ7J1dPd3sAmDszACcDQjHYfQnydVLV09W4DVZhqfJ OzwAnidGh0Nzi/fQ6uwCninjlCQ8WDov =5KQp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sverma at sfsu.edu Sat Dec 17 11:34:24 2011 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:34:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive Message-ID: Any recommendations on a 3TB Western Digital external USB drive? Came natively with a NTFS. Access will be via Linux only and will be used for backup. cheers, Sameer -- Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Professor, Information Systems San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://commons.sfsu.edu/ http://olpcsf.org/ From jim at systemateka.com Sun Dec 18 11:05:39 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 11:05:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1324235139.2690.17.camel@jim-LAPTOP> What an interesting topic. I hope some of the gurus will suggest two or three good possibilities. I'll be particularly interested in btrfs discussion. I suppose you want to use the entire space as a single partition. Do you have any additional parameters such as * lots of small files * some huge files * need journaling * need access speed above all other things * ... On Sat, 2011-12-17 at 11:34 -0800, Sameer Verma wrote: > Any recommendations on a 3TB Western Digital external USB drive? Came > natively with a NTFS. Access will be via Linux only and will be used > for backup. > > cheers, > Sameer From ian at iansidle.com Sun Dec 18 14:05:09 2011 From: ian at iansidle.com (Ian Sidle) Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:05:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If it's for backup purposes, then reliability is your #1 goal, then I would say use fuse-ZFS or ext3. ZFS is excellent for long term storage, since there is a large amount of checksums and parity information embedded all over the file structure. BTRFS is going to provide a lot of the functionality that is in ZFS and then some but it's going to be quite a while before it is release quality. EXT2/3 has been around forever, and never was strong in the performance department but the file system follows the KISS methodology and that has kept it very reliable. FYI - EXT4 is significantly different then the old linage, and when it was first release there was some reliability issues. Since then, I hear it's fairly reliable now but the performance isn't a lot better (and at times worse) then EXT2. If you are more interested in performance XFS has always worked really well for me. It caches a lot of information in RAM and waits for the optimal moment to write data to disk in large sequential blocks rather then jumping at the blocks closest to the current location of the drive heads. So you can loose some data if the disk cache haven't been flushed and the power goes out, but to an extent that is always a risk anyway with any filesystem. ReiserFS was once a contender but once the founder dropped out of the project, development has basically ground to a halt. It's good performance for small files but has had problems with larger files and some implementations had reliability issues for a while. I wouldn't trust it for much of anything now because I don't expect there to be much support in the future. NTFS is actually an OK choice too. It is significantly more reliable then FAT32 and the mainline linux kernel support has had issues if a drive isn't mounted cleanly the fuse-NTFS is implementation seems to work a lot better in my experience. The performance isn't awesome but it's not horrible either, and if you later need to access the drive from Mac/Windows then it will work out of the box without any hassle. thanks, Ian From nbs at sonic.net Tue Dec 20 17:50:16 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 17:50:16 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, January 16: "Processing", plus 13th anniversary celebration Message-ID: <201112210150.pBL1oGxd021176@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting: Monday January 16, 2012 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "Processing" Gabriel Dunne, Designer, Tessellated Group LLC Processing ( http://processing.org/ ) is a popular open source programming language and environment used by scientists and artists alike to to create images, animations, and interactive exhibits. Built on the work of an earlier MIT Media Lab project, and initially developed to serve as a software sketchbook and to teach fundamentals of computer programming within a visual context, Processing has evolved into a tool for generating finished professional work. Today, there are tens of thousands of students, artists, designers, researchers, and hobbyists who use Processing for learning, prototyping, and production. Processing is free, and cross-platform, running on Windows and Mac OS X, as well as Linux. Anniversary Celebration: The Linux Users' Group of Davis, a non-profit computer club dedicated to Linux and the Free Software movement, will be marking its 13th birthday with free food and give-aways at this meeting. Sponsored in part by O'Reilly Media and ThinkGeek. This meeting will be held at: Veterans Memorial Center - Club Room 203 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/vetcenter/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From jim at systemateka.com Tue Dec 20 21:15:53 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 21:15:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Laptops for kids/linux Message-ID: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> >From a Noisebridge sub-group discussion: > http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html > > [I'm] "Still working on the donations, got a meeting > tomorrow for seeing about getting NB (or another 501c3) > Intuit's overflow machines. > "I work for Intuit, the guys who make TurboTax and Quicken. We > have a technology refresh policy where we retire machines > every 36 months or so. We used to offer the machines back to > the workforce for purchase, but then IT started spending more > time fixing computers that they no longer were responsible > for... so the process died. We were just recycling the > machines through a secure processing facility (E-Waste, not > sure of the details other than they wipe the hard drives). > "So recently Intuit changed the policy and now employees can > request that retiring assets can be donated to a nonprofit of > their choice (either NB as a parent org, or if you have > another 501 setup with you computer work, directly to that). I > understand that you do work with putting computers into the > hands of underserved populations (like students, is what I > understood it to be, but what do I know). I would like to work > with you (assuming you're interested) in getting machines > donated to your linux install parties. The secret awesome part > about this is that Intuit generally standardizes on machine > types, which would mean that nearly identical machines could > be donated in semi-bulk amounts (I'd say 40-60 a month, > usually)." From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Tue Dec 20 23:54:12 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 23:54:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1324454052.73248.YahooMailRC@web83803.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 08:32:54 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:32:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Laptops for kids/linux In-Reply-To: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: hi, I want to jump right on this! Could someone help hook me up with the person who posted this link? I am going to follow it now, but I wanted to immediately get back to whomever posted this link on Linuxtoys. Thx! On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:15 PM, jim wrote: > > > > >From a Noisebridge sub-group discussion: > > > http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html > > > > [I'm] "Still working on the donations, got a meeting > > tomorrow for seeing about getting NB (or another 501c3) > > Intuit's overflow machines. > > > "I work for Intuit, the guys who make TurboTax and Quicken. We > > have a technology refresh policy where we retire machines > > every 36 months or so. We used to offer the machines back to > > the workforce for purchase, but then IT started spending more > > time fixing computers that they no longer were responsible > > for... so the process died. We were just recycling the > > machines through a secure processing facility (E-Waste, not > > sure of the details other than they wipe the hard drives). > > > "So recently Intuit changed the policy and now employees can > > request that retiring assets can be donated to a nonprofit of > > their choice (either NB as a parent org, or if you have > > another 501 setup with you computer work, directly to that). I > > understand that you do work with putting computers into the > > hands of underserved populations (like students, is what I > > understood it to be, but what do I know). I would like to work > > with you (assuming you're interested) in getting machines > > donated to your linux install parties. The secret awesome part > > about this is that Intuit generally standardizes on machine > > types, which would mean that nearly identical machines could > > be donated in semi-bulk amounts (I'd say 40-60 a month, > > usually)." > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 08:35:26 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:35:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Laptops for kids/linux In-Reply-To: References: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: Hi, On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > > I want to jump right on this! Could someone help hook me up with the > person who posted this link? I am going to follow it now, but I wanted to > immediately get back to whomever posted this link on Linuxtoys. Thx! > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:15 PM, jim wrote: > >> >> >> >> >From a Noisebridge sub-group discussion: >> >> > http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html >> > I followed the link above, it lead to a maker page talking about how to create multiseat installs, but nothing about getting these notebooks. Thanks in advance for any help. This would make a huge huge difference for our Linux schools effort. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Dec 21 09:12:36 2011 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:12:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Laptops for kids/linux In-Reply-To: References: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <1324487556.1718.29.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Yes. I believe the person is not on the SF-LUG list, but is part of the Noisebridge community and on the noisebridge-discuss list. I'll contact him directly and forward your email to him (and his to you if he okays that). On Wed, 2011-12-21 at 08:32 -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > > > I want to jump right on this! Could someone help hook me up with the > person who posted this link? I am going to follow it now, but I > wanted to immediately get back to whomever posted this link on > Linuxtoys. Thx! > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:15 PM, jim wrote: > > > > >From a Noisebridge sub-group discussion: > > > http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html > > > > [I'm] "Still working on the donations, got a meeting > > tomorrow for seeing about getting NB (or another 501c3) > > Intuit's overflow machines. > > > "I work for Intuit, the guys who make TurboTax and > Quicken. We > > have a technology refresh policy where we retire > machines > > every 36 months or so. We used to offer the machines > back to > > the workforce for purchase, but then IT started > spending more > > time fixing computers that they no longer were > responsible > > for... so the process died. We were just recycling > the > > machines through a secure processing facility > (E-Waste, not > > sure of the details other than they wipe the hard > drives). > > > "So recently Intuit changed the policy and now > employees can > > request that retiring assets can be donated to a > nonprofit of > > their choice (either NB as a parent org, or if you > have > > another 501 setup with you computer work, directly > to that). I > > understand that you do work with putting computers > into the > > hands of underserved populations (like students, is > what I > > understood it to be, but what do I know). I would > like to work > > with you (assuming you're interested) in getting > machines > > donated to your linux install parties. The secret > awesome part > > about this is that Intuit generally standardizes on > machine > > types, which would mean that nearly identical > machines could > > be donated in semi-bulk amounts (I'd say 40-60 a > month, > > usually)." > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From shane at faultymonk.org Thu Dec 22 12:53:14 2011 From: shane at faultymonk.org (Shane Tzen) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 12:53:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let me apologize first if the following seems flip, but based on my personal and practical experience with large filesystems, you were given pretty bad advice. On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Any recommendations on a 3TB Western Digital external USB drive? Came > natively with a NTFS. Access will be via Linux only and will be used > for backup. The only filesystem that I personally for "large" volumes is JFS. I've run this in production for years with about 30TB total (anther 40TB in scratch disks) and the largest single volume being around 16TB with about 90% utilization and had never had to go unexpectedly in a panic into work to deal with some mysterious JFS issue. As far as other filesystems, unless you want to play fast and loose with your data: ZFS (http://zfsonlinux.org/): "Please keep in mind the current 0.5.2 stable release does not yet support a mountable filesystem." - You've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" If you want ZFS, do it on Solaris. BTRFS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Btrfs#No_consistency_check_and_recovery_tool): "As of November 2011, the planned filesystem check program has not been released. This means that it is currently possible to corrupt a btrfs filesystem and lose all files if your machine crashes or loses power on disks that don't handle flush requests correctly." - Isn't that special? XFS: XFS on Linux is not XFS on SGI. My personal experience with XFS on Linux is that it's basically unusable. Years ago, you couldn't run the bridging code and XFS concurrently on Linux (lead to random kernel panics). Nevermind why the filesystem code should interact that badly with the networking code... Despite my bad experience with it initially, I had a few years ago tried it again just to see, and there was silent data corruption on disk. While the filesystem itself thought that everything was fine, we were able to demonstrate that certain data that was kept on disk had somehow mutated without rhyme or reason, much less any warnings. EXT2/3: "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you." All else aside, just the fsck time alone on a large volume rules this out. Granted 3TB is on the small side of a large volume, if there is ever an issue that you might have to fsck an volume, then your data is effectively offline for hours upon hours. I had tried an 8TB volume with EXT3 once and had to migrate the data off (the write performance had mysterious hit a cliff when we went above a certain number of files/directories). I don't have a whole lot of experience with EXT4. So the only thing I can say about it is that it's new yet to be proven in production (personally). Reiser: Excuse the pun, but Reiser is effectively dead. 4 is unlikely ever to make it into the mainline kernel. I haven't played with 3 in ages, but had plenty of problems back when I did. I believe my remark back then was, "The recovery tools are excellent. But that's only because you're very likely to need them." NTFS-3g: "NTFS-3G supports partial NTFS journaling, so if an unexpected computer failure leaves the file system in an inconsistent state, the volume can be repaired." - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS-3G. Again, how comfortable are you with regard to possibly losing your backup data? From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 13:29:28 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] Make your terminal snow Message-ID: A fun bash script to hack on: https://gist.github.com/1505483 "Improved" version for folks with a Unicode symbol font (hint: Symbola605.ttf): https://gist.github.com/1509100 Happy holidays! From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Thu Dec 22 19:11:49 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:11:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Monday 19 December Message-ID: <4EF3F175.3030304@dslextreme.com> Well excuse me for taking so long to report on this small but useful meeting. Due to prior commitments on Monday I was a bit late to the meeting. Jim Stockford got there first and then Jackie showed up with a real problem. She needed to move photos on her cell phone to her computer for various purposes. Without a special tool my Compaq notebook running Mandriva 2010.2 could not see the device via USB. Fortunately Eric Porter arrived and introduced Jackie and the rest of us to the functionality of BitPim which Eric activated on Jackie?s Toshiba. This is a tool designed to access a great many smart phones and immediately Jackie?s problem was solved. At about 7:30 we adjourned our meeting. That is what we mean when we say our meeting times are nominal. This meeting involved 4 people and solved a problem. Best meeting ever. Bobbie Sellers From einfeldt at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 22:13:20 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 22:13:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Laptops for kids/linux In-Reply-To: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1324444553.1718.23.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: One of our Linux schools was heavily damaged in the fire that you all probably saw on the news today. Now, more than ever, it will be crucial for us to provide Linux notebook computers to the Creative Arts Charter School (CACS), because they have lost a lot of space as a result of this horrible 5 alarm fire. If we could get some help getting a line on these notebooks, we would appreciate it. Partimus.org is a recognized 501(c)(3), and so all donations, including the value of notebooks, is fully tax deductible. Thanks in advance for any help! The CACS is the crown jewel of our Linux schools effort. They use our linux computers heavily. Any help is greatly appreciated! On Dec 20, 2011 9:15 PM, "jim" wrote: > > > > >From a Noisebridge sub-group discussion: > > > http://www.linuxtoys.org/multiseat/multiseat.html > > > > [I'm] "Still working on the donations, got a meeting > > tomorrow for seeing about getting NB (or another 501c3) > > Intuit's overflow machines. > > > "I work for Intuit, the guys who make TurboTax and Quicken. We > > have a technology refresh policy where we retire machines > > every 36 months or so. We used to offer the machines back to > > the workforce for purchase, but then IT started spending more > > time fixing computers that they no longer were responsible > > for... so the process died. We were just recycling the > > machines through a secure processing facility (E-Waste, not > > sure of the details other than they wipe the hard drives). > > > "So recently Intuit changed the policy and now employees can > > request that retiring assets can be donated to a nonprofit of > > their choice (either NB as a parent org, or if you have > > another 501 setup with you computer work, directly to that). I > > understand that you do work with putting computers into the > > hands of underserved populations (like students, is what I > > understood it to be, but what do I know). I would like to work > > with you (assuming you're interested) in getting machines > > donated to your linux install parties. The secret awesome part > > about this is that Intuit generally standardizes on machine > > types, which would mean that nearly identical machines could > > be donated in semi-bulk amounts (I'd say 40-60 a month, > > usually)." > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jstrazza at yahoo.com Sat Dec 24 15:16:52 2011 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Sat, 24 Dec 2011 15:16:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts Message-ID: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Installed Ubuntu on a laptop and trying to run youtube.? It says that my adobe flash player needs to be updated.? Download the file (.rpm) format and don't know exactly what to do, In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions?? I guess I never learned how to do this. Thanks John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Sun Dec 25 03:20:39 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2011 11:20:39 +0000 Subject: [sf-lug] bought used lenovo laptop with windows; never registered; can i request refund? Message-ID: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> I know it's possible to request a rebate for a never used copy of Windows on a new computer. How does this work with a used/refurbished? I purchased a T61P through Lenovo's used/refurbished program. The Lenovo salesperson explained that they don't include CDs but just install Windows on every computer. I had a spare large disk so simply removed the disk that came with the laptop and installed Linux on my disk. Can I get a rebate for the Windows tax on the completely unused Windows installation on the original disk? From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 13:02:03 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 13:02:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John, Take a look at http://www.debianadmin.com/install-rpm-files-in-debian-and-ubuntu.html Ken On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > Installed Ubuntu on a laptop and trying to run youtube. It says that my > adobe flash player needs to be updated. Download the file (.rpm) format > and don't know exactly what to do, > > In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions? I > guess I never learned how to do this. > > Thanks > > John > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pi at berkeley.edu Mon Dec 26 14:34:59 2011 From: pi at berkeley.edu (Paul Ivanov) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 14:34:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> Hi John, Ken, and others, Ken Shaffer, on 2011-12-26 13:02, wrote: > Take a look at > http://www.debianadmin.com/install-rpm-files-in-debian-and-ubuntu.html I disagree - there's no need for John to look at those directions - because the specific problem John is trying to solve does not require installing RPM files - there are DEB files available and they work fine on Ubuntu. > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > > Installed Ubuntu on a laptop and trying to run youtube. It says that my > > adobe flash player needs to be updated. Download the file (.rpm) format > > and don't know exactly what to do, > > > > In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions? I > > guess I never learned how to do this. One way to get them is by going here: http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/ For OS select Linux 32-bit or Linux 64-bit, depending on which one you have (running the 'arch' command in a terminal will tell you which one you have - if arch print i686 - you have 32 bit, if it prints x86_64, it's 64 bit). Then, from the next drop down menu, select Flash Player 11 for Ubuntu (apt). Download that file, and open it with 'apturl' (which happened by default here), follow the prompts to add this additional source and then at the terminal run 'sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree') best, -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From pi at berkeley.edu Mon Dec 26 14:45:23 2011 From: pi at berkeley.edu (Paul Ivanov) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 14:45:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> References: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> Message-ID: <20111226224523.GB2634@ykcyc> Paul Ivanov, on 2011-12-26 14:34, wrote: > > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > > > In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions? I > > > guess I never learned how to do this. > > One way to get them is by going here: > > http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/ ... An alternative to my previous instructions - here's another way of getting Adobe Flash plugin - which uses just the Ubuntu Software Center, and has step-by-step pictures, like John asked for: http://www.liberiangeek.net/2010/05/how-to-install-flash-player-in-ubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx/ cheers, -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 14:52:58 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 14:52:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> References: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> Message-ID: Fascinating, So when at the adobe.com site, click on the get flash, see the proper identification of your system: Download Adobe Flash Player Adobe Flash Player version 11.1.102.55 Your system: Linux 32-bit, Firefox Different operating system or browser? with no "APT" choice in the download list. Click on the link "Different operating system or browser?" to get the apt choice added to the list. So why do you think they are hiding the apt version? Ken On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Paul Ivanov wrote: > Hi John, Ken, and others, > > Ken Shaffer, on 2011-12-26 13:02, wrote: > > Take a look at > > http://www.debianadmin.com/install-rpm-files-in-debian-and-ubuntu.html > > I disagree - there's no need for John to look at those > directions - because the specific problem John is trying to solve > does not require installing RPM files - there are DEB files > available and they work fine on Ubuntu. > > > > On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John F. Strazzarino >wrote: > > > Installed Ubuntu on a laptop and trying to run youtube. It says that > my > > > adobe flash player needs to be updated. Download the file (.rpm) > format > > > and don't know exactly what to do, > > > > > > In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions? > I > > > guess I never learned how to do this. > > One way to get them is by going here: > > http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/otherversions/ > > For OS select Linux 32-bit or Linux 64-bit, depending on which > one you have (running the 'arch' command in a terminal will tell > you which one you have - if arch print i686 - you have 32 bit, if > it prints x86_64, it's 64 bit). > > Then, from the next drop down menu, select Flash Player 11 for > Ubuntu (apt). Download that file, and open it with 'apturl' > (which happened by default here), follow the prompts to add this > additional source and then at the terminal run 'sudo apt-get > update; sudo apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree') > > best, > -- > Paul Ivanov > http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk749o0ACgkQe+cmRQ8+KPfxUgCcDIN2KSrXeKzbR0Ih1eVhFNha > nNAAn3pfr/Nkc3JIYYVRA84MHMxhLQkb > =7gxE > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pi at berkeley.edu Mon Dec 26 15:03:55 2011 From: pi at berkeley.edu (Paul Ivanov) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 15:03:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: References: <20111226223459.GA2634@ykcyc> Message-ID: <20111226230355.GC2634@ykcyc> Ken Shaffer, on 2011-12-26 14:52, wrote: > So why do you think they are hiding the apt version? I doubt they're doing it on purpose. -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jstrazza at yahoo.com Mon Dec 26 15:37:46 2011 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 15:37:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: References: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1324942666.73687.YahooMailNeo@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> All, ? I installed some other software and the adobe flash player was updated automatically.? You Tube works fine. ? Thanks for the assistance. ? John ? Now....if I could figure out how to make my latest toy (an iPad from Santa) work, would be nice! ? ________________________________ From: Ken Shaffer To: John F. Strazzarino Cc: SF-LUG Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts John, Take a look at http://www.debianadmin.com/install-rpm-files-in-debian-and-ubuntu.html Ken On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: Installed Ubuntu on a laptop and trying to run youtube.? It says that my adobe flash player needs to be updated.? Download the file (.rpm) format and don't know exactly what to do, > > >In the spirit of the season, can someone give step by step directions?? I guess I never learned how to do this. > > >Thanks > >John > > >_______________________________________________ >sf-lug mailing list >sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Dec 26 16:00:40 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 16:00:40 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] =?utf-8?q?SF-LUG_meets_on_New_Year=C2=B4s_Day_2012?= Message-ID: <4EF90AA8.4010404@dslextreme.com> If you can get away from the games of New Year? Day you could start the New Year right. come on down and have a cup of coffee or tea and scan the latest Linux magazines. I got the Linux Format and Linux Pro but both feature live multiple versions of Ubuntu 11.10. That is you can boot to the interface you are interested in using. SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From cymraegish at gmail.com Mon Dec 26 17:23:17 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:23:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] bought used lenovo laptop with windows; never registered; can i request refund? In-Reply-To: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> References: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am not a pc man, but isn't there a sticker on it with an authenticity number ? I am pretty sure this number can be cancelled so as to make what you have if you retained it an unauthorized copy that could not recieve security patches or updates. I believe I have seen this after-the-fact, someone told me it was a business leasing type license discard. On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 at 3:20 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > I know it's possible to request a rebate for a never used copy of Windows > on a new computer. How does this work with a used/refurbished? > > I purchased a T61P through Lenovo's used/refurbished program. The Lenovo > salesperson explained that they don't include CDs but just install Windows > on every computer. I had a spare large disk so simply removed the disk that > came with the laptop and installed Linux on my disk. > > Can I get a rebate for the Windows tax on the completely unused Windows > installation on the original disk? > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Dec 26 17:52:30 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2011 17:52:30 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] bought used lenovo laptop with windows; never registered; can i request refund? In-Reply-To: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> References: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111227015230.GO22215@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > I know it's possible to request a rebate for a never used copy of > Windows on a new computer. How does this work with a > used/refurbished? Michael -- I wonder if there's been some news in this that I hadn't heard since 2002, but I honestly very, very much doubt there has. I wonder if you wouldn't mind reading the portion of this article that concerns 'Windows Refund Day', here, as background: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511127721.html (Skip down to 'Let's come to the Windows refund day in February 1999.') (In short, for reasons I discuss in the interview, sure, you can request a refund on a new machine with bundled OEM MS-Windows. You can't usually get it. For used/refurbished, you're all the more less likely to succeed, as it'll be rather too easy to claim that you might not have ever used the preload, but the original purchaser probably did -- or some similar dodge.) From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 01:19:31 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 09:19:31 +0000 Subject: [sf-lug] bought used lenovo laptop with windows; never registered; can i request refund? In-Reply-To: <20111227015230.GO22215@linuxmafia.com> References: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> <20111227015230.GO22215@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4EF98DA3.2040304@gmail.com> On 12/27/2011 01:52 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> I know it's possible to request a rebate for a never used copy of >> Windows on a new computer. How does this work with a >> used/refurbished? > > Michael -- > > I wonder if there's been some news in this that I hadn't heard since > 2002, but I honestly very, very much doubt there has. I wonder if you > wouldn't mind reading the portion of this article that concerns 'Windows > Refund Day', here, as background: > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511127721.html (Skip down > to 'Let's come to the Windows refund day in February 1999.') > > (In short, for reasons I discuss in the interview, sure, you can request > a refund on a new machine with bundled OEM MS-Windows. You can't > usually get it. For used/refurbished, you're all the more less likely > to succeed, as it'll be rather too easy to claim that you might not have > ever used the preload, but the original purchaser probably did -- or > some similar dodge.) Thanks for the pointer. Great interview! I'll go back to getting work done now... From ttrafford at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 07:05:21 2011 From: ttrafford at gmail.com (Tyler Trafford) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 10:05:21 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: <1324942666.73687.YahooMailNeo@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1324942666.73687.YahooMailNeo@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20111227150521.GA28706@oasis.local> John F. Strazzarino wrote: > I installed some other software and the adobe flash player was updated > automatically.? You Tube works fine. ? Debian has made this really easy now if you have flashplugin-nonfree installed: $ sudo /sbin/update-flashplugin-nonfree --install I imagine Ubuntu will do this soon if they haven't already. -- Tyler Trafford From ttrafford at gmail.com Tue Dec 27 07:10:57 2011 From: ttrafford at gmail.com (Tyler Trafford) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 10:10:57 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] Installing flash player update on ubuntu 10.4 lts In-Reply-To: <20111227150521.GA28706@oasis.local> References: <1324768612.38097.YahooMailNeo@web35604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1324942666.73687.YahooMailNeo@web35608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20111227150521.GA28706@oasis.local> Message-ID: <20111227151057.GB28706@oasis.local> Tyler Trafford wrote: > John F. Strazzarino wrote: > > > I installed some other software and the adobe flash player was updated > > automatically.? You Tube works fine. ? > > Debian has made this really easy now if you have flashplugin-nonfree > installed: > > $ sudo /sbin/update-flashplugin-nonfree --install Err, that should be "/usr/sbin", obviously. -- Tyler Trafford From samir at esamir.com Tue Dec 27 08:59:54 2011 From: samir at esamir.com (Samir Faci) Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2011 10:59:54 -0600 Subject: [sf-lug] bought used lenovo laptop with windows; never registered; can i request refund? In-Reply-To: <4EF98DA3.2040304@gmail.com> References: <4EF70707.8030608@gmail.com> <20111227015230.GO22215@linuxmafia.com> <4EF98DA3.2040304@gmail.com> Message-ID: It's technically possible to get a refund...but honestly... its usually not worth the time and effort involved. (I've never went through the process, laziness kicked in ) Also, keep in mind that whatever Dell, HP and such pay for windows isn't the retail price. I imagine on a $200 licence you'd get 50-100 back at best. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 3:19 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > > > On 12/27/2011 01:52 AM, Rick Moen wrote: >> >> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): >> >>> I know it's possible to request a rebate for a never used copy of >>> Windows on a new computer. How does this work with a >>> used/refurbished? >> >> >> Michael -- >> >> I wonder if there's been some news in this that I hadn't heard since >> 2002, but I honestly very, very much doubt there has. ?I wonder if you >> wouldn't mind reading the portion of this article that concerns 'Windows >> Refund Day', here, as background: >> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/12/26/1040511127721.html ?(Skip down >> to 'Let's come to the Windows refund day in February 1999.') >> >> (In short, for reasons I discuss in the interview, sure, you can request >> a refund on a new machine with bundled OEM MS-Windows. ?You can't >> usually get it. ?For used/refurbished, you're all the more less likely >> to succeed, as it'll be rather too easy to claim that you might not have >> ever used the preload, but the original purchaser probably did -- or >> some similar dodge.) > > > Thanks for the pointer. Great interview! > > I'll go back to getting work done now... > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- Samir Faci *insert title* fortune | cowsay -f /usr/share/cows/tux.cow Sent from my non-iphone laptop. From jbpuig at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 28 05:44:03 2011 From: jbpuig at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Puig) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 05:44:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting Reminder - Linux Discussion at Noisebridge Message-ID: <1325079843.23393.YahooMailRC@web83806.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The Noisebridge Linux Discussion meets on Wednesday evenings, from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (or so) in the Turing classroom. Noisebridge is located at 2169 Mission Street, very near 18th Street, in San Francisco. Info: www.sf-lug.com and www.noisebridge.net Joseph From ian at iansidle.com Sat Dec 31 01:07:14 2011 From: ian at iansidle.com (Ian Sidle) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 01:07:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> > Let me apologize first if the following seems flip, but based on my > personal and practical experience with large filesystems, you were > given pretty bad advice. Based on the phrasing, I get the impression that you feel that every statement that I made in my email was incorrect. I must admit that to many, filesystems is as much personal preference as it is "science" and it is very easy to tread into flame wars over the subject, so I will attempt to tread carefully. First, let's start with the original request > Any recommendations on a 3TB Western Digital external USB drive? Came > natively with a NTFS. Access will be via Linux only and will be used > for backup. The purpose of this drive's use is for a Backup and the request is for a filesystem that is appropriate for this particular situation (as opposed to a generalized discussion of file systems). Sameer Verma did not answer any of the (IMHO) fairly reasonable questions that jim at systemateka.com posted, wanting further information about the data to be stored and what kind of features were desired. (what number of files, their size, journalism, whether performance was a priority, cross-platform accessibility,etc). Lacking any of this information, I operated from what I feel was a fairly conservative set of criteria for my recommendation. Since he did not mention anything about a "business" or some other type of organization I am going to assume this was going to be for personal use and this 3TB drive was going to be the sole backup location. #1 High data stability #2 How many methods are available to recover information in the event of double-catastrophy (i.e. where both the original computer and the "backup" drive are stored in the same room and a fire/flood/other disaster effects BOTH copies of the data). True, it is better to have an off-site copy of the data in multipule-geographically and physically secured locations, but *very* rarely is that done practice by individuals at home. #3 Compatibility with other operating systems. True, the original posted said it was only necessary for it to work with linux, but situations may change in the future and one might need to be able to get to your data on a platform different from the one where you started. Next, lets go over the parts where we BOTH agreed. > "BTRFS This means that it is currently possible to corrupt a btrfs filesystem.. Isn't that special?" Swimming through your sarcasm, I got the impression you did not recommend the use of BTRFS. In my previous email, I said exactly " it's going to be quite a while before it is release quality". I would believe most people would consider calling something NOT release quality to be the opposite of a recommendation for it's use. > Reiser: > Excuse the pun, but Reiser is effectively dead I completely agree, and I felt the phrase "I don't expect there to be much support in the future" to convey a sentiment similar to what you were expressing, coupled with the phrase "I wouldn't trust it for much of anything" as a recommendation against it's use. > I don't have a whole lot of experience with EXT4. So the only thing I can say about it is that it's new yet to be proven in production Glad you agree with me again, since I would feel most people would consider saying it had "some reliability issues" as being a suggest AGINST it's use... Now to where there was some dispute. > ZFS (http://zfsonlinux.org/): > "Please keep in mind the current 0.5.2 stable release does not yet > support a mountable filesystem." - You've gotta ask yourself a > question: "Do I feel lucky?" If you want ZFS, do it on Solaris. I did NOT recommend using the kernel-based patch for native ZFS support, and instead I stated you should use the "zfs-fuse" implementation, which some people believe to be a stable implementation (albeit not very fast) that is also linux compatible. "zfs-fuse is mature and stable enough to trust data to it" http://www.virag.si/2010/06/zfs-fuse-0-6-9-on-ubuntu-lucid-lynx/ "From this, I conclude that ZFS-Fuse is pretty stable" http://mindinthewater.blogspot.com/2010/06/zfs-fuse-reliability-report.html "I've been using ZFS-FUSE for several weeks with many terabytes of data and I believe it is stable and ready for prime time. " https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=109536 As for recovery potential, no doubt one could use the free software available on OpenSolaris, Nexentia or even Oracle Solaris Express for data recovery by running it off a bootable CDROM. I wouldn't be surprised that there is companies that will provide data recovery services since there is considerable corporate backing. Now, if this was a situation where this file system was to be used for a server, then I would have recommended something else (or at least, a solaris derivative). In the end, the choice of ZFS on linux is at best a compromise, and I certainly admit that. The big feature for this activity is that it automatically provides checksums on the contents of the data blocks, and therefore of file contents. This provides to some extent a "self-healing" capability, but I must admit it isn't particularly useful unless you are using ZRAID or the copies=2/3 feature (that stores multiple copies of each file in the filesystem). > EXT2/3: > "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you." > > All else aside, just the fsck time alone on a large volume rules this > out True, fsck can be rather inconvenient with EXT2 but again this isn't a drive that requires high performance, high uptime or other specialized needs. Reliability of the filesystem and Data consistency is going to be way more important with a backup drive then anything else. *if* the drive is not mounted cleanly consistency can sometimes be an issue but generally you don't want to keep your backup drive plugged in all the time anyway in case of power surges,etc. Even then, the vast majority of the time it can be fixed with fsck, it merely takes some time which isn't a big deal based on the suggested criteria. There is many programs that will provide data recovery for ext2, as well as readers for nearly any platform in existence. > The only filesystem that I personally for "large" volumes is JFS. At least at one point (a number of years ago now, I must admit) most of the articles I had read that talked about JFS, described it as being a half-complete project that was abandoned by IBM. At the time, the performance was slightly better then XFS in some regards, and worse then others but reliability was an major issue since it was still labeled as "beta". According to wikipedia, XFS was included in the stable, mainline Linux kernel tree with version 2.4.0 [January 01, 2001] as a stable release and JFS was included in kernel version 2.4.18 [Feb 25, 2002] and was appropriately labeled as a "experimental" feature. For political reasons, pre-stable and early 1.0-ish releases were not part of the mainline kernel and therefore required manually patching the linux kernel until later. Depending on where you look, it's clear that JFS is not exactly flawless as you seem to imply "We have found that the jfs filesystem is not reliable in Linux 2.6.24, however in 2.6.21 it is extremely robust." http://www.embeddedarm.com/about/resource.php?item=459 Wait... so it suddenly becomes significantly less stable with a /newer/ version of the kernel??? "I have a server with a JFS filesystem on it that's gotten corrupted." http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Ubuntu/2009-04/msg00156.html "I recently encountered JFS filesystem corruption on a system" http://old.nabble.com/JFS-corruption-%22Stale-NFS-filehandle%22-td26287390.html "JFS Corruption? Can't recover filesystem" http://www.mail-archive.com/jfs-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net/msg01491.html "JFS: long fsck time on large filesystem?" - 12+ hour fsck on a 7TB JFS filesystem http://serverfault.com/questions/154736/jfs-long-fsck-time-on-large-filesystem I'm not trying to say JFS is garbage (I am surprised to read how many positive reviews on it there is now) but it sounds like it is far from perfect and as I have learned, one line statements rarely convey the entire of any given situation. ----- > > XFS: > XFS on Linux is not XFS on SGI. My personal experience with XFS on > Linux is that it's basically unusable. "In my personal experience, XFS is very unreliable". That is the problem with personal experience - it can vary widely and it's hard to prove anything without hard facts. I've used it on Desktops, Laptops and a Servers running XFS - some were always shutdown cleanly and others where lab computers that were frequently unplugged resulting in very dirty file systems. With my personal experience I never had any trouble with XFS. XFS had gotten a bad rap because it will result in silent data loss if files were being worked on at the moment of a dirty unmount (i.e. power outage or crashes), since it keeps a significant amount of write cache in memory before writing it to disk. However, this is more of a design choice rather then a faulty design. > I had a few years ago tried it again just to see, and there was silent data corruption on disk. Silent corruption of data on a risk is impossible to eliminate entirely without using a filesystem that supports block-level checksums and repair parity data - period. JFS does not support this feature, so nobody can claim JFS to be impervious to it. You could argue that one file system has a higher probability of having silent data corruption, but that wasn't a part of your arguments. The only file systems available in OSS that provide block-level checksums is ZFS and BTRFS, and since BTRFS is still in the design stages, ZFS is the remaining options. For the record, XFS make a series of design choices that many people thought were bugs. First, the file system works on the assumption it is running on a Server in an enterprise environment, with ample amounts of memory, backup sources of power and therefore it keeps large amounts of write data cached and only flushes it at much longer intervals then other file systems. If you had been in the middle of a lot of large operations and then the power goes out, you would loose the data that was stored in the RAM cache. To an extent, this is true with all filesystems and is always a risk, but XFS chose to be more aggressive then most in order to gain additional performance. Secondly - when there is possibilities of data corruption, XFS will intentionally write a bunch of zeros over the blocks that it is suspicious of because of after a hard power off. So, instead of having a file that has data that can potentially have data corruption in it and therefore the whole file is suspect but there is no way to know for sure which portion of the data is correct (as what happens with most filesystems), instead you have blocks that you know are bad (because they are all zeros') and now one knows it is time to recover those blocks/file from backups. Depending on your perspective, this is "too aggressive" or "too conservative" depending on your personal philosophy. It's certainly /different/ then most of the other file systems out there. This was a design *choice* made by the programmers because they made a lot of assumptions about the environment it would be running it in, what priorities the people running it would have and then optimized it for those build requirements. That's probably why your experience did not change when you used it again later, because it was still operating "as designed". Now, stepping back and re-evaluating everything I've now said, maybe XFS wasn't the best of choices for this particular situation. If I was able to make the assumption that the drive would be turned on, mounted, used and then cleanly unmounted right after use then I feel it would still be a ok choice but if the person was going to be rough with it (regularly unplug it without properly unmounting it) then I would have recommended something else. > ..you might have to fsck an volume, then your data is > effectively offline for hours upon hours. I had tried an 8TB volume > with EXT3 once and had to migrate the data off (the write performance > had mysterious hit a cliff when we went above a certain number of > files/directories). Indeed. I was not recommending EXT3 to be used on a server that had a multi-terrabyte filesystem where downtime would be a problem... > [EXT4] is unlikely ever to > make it into the mainline kernel. According to wikipedia, EXT4 has been included in the mainline kernel On 11 October 2008, version 2.6.28.... I know a number of distributions (including ubuntu & centos ) have used it as their default filesystem for some time... However, even the developer of EXT4 admit's that it is a "stop gap solution", and I know (at least initially) there was a lot of problems with ubuntu installations when it first came out because of file system problems. > > NTFS-3g: > "NTFS-3G supports partial NTFS journaling, so if an unexpected > computer failure leaves the file system in an inconsistent state, the > volume can be repaired." - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS-3G. > Again, how comfortable are you with regard to possibly losing your > backup data? I've used NTFS-3G for years, on both Linux and Mac OS X computers. Primarily for accessing my ~300GB USB drive, that I use it for recovering/transfer different users data between computers & operating systems. It's never been particularly fast I must admit, but i've never had any major reliability problems with it. Every once in a while I have to run a disk check, but that can easily be just as much the windows NTFS implementation as it could be NTFS-3G's. That's just my personal, anecdotical experience though. It's pretty clear that the makers of NTFS-3G are confident in it's ability to repair the system on the fly "Historically NTFS-3G had very rigid sanity checks and this won't change in the future" and even though on the page they released a offline recovery tool, they implied that they felt it would rarely be necessary in this PR release http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ntfs-3g.devel/678 In the FAQ, they mention a couple of bugs in the /Microsoft/ implementation that is a problem in windows that does not effect NTFS-3G http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-faq/#questions "NTFS-3g is mature enough to rely on these days." http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1211829 "use NTFS-3G...[this] project [is] free, open-source and mature." http://superuser.com/questions/45130/cross-platform-file-system "I?ve been using NTFS-3G in Linux for many years and haven?t had any problems with it.." http://blog.thewheatfield.org/tag/osx/ "NTFS-3G develops, quality tests and supports a trustable, feature rich and high performance solution for hardware platforms and operating systems whose users need to reliably interoperate with NTFS." "The driver is used by millions of computers, consumer electronics devices for reliable data exchange, and referenced in more than 30 computer books. Please see our test methods and testimonials on the driver quality page at www.ntfs-3g.org." True, this might be just a lot of marketing speak, but I've known a ton of people who use it and it is fairly stable for them. There is countless recovery programs for the filesystem and every "drive savers" type of company known to man kind supports the filesystem. That was the primary reason why I even suggested it as an option. If the disk platter on a drive running JFS/XFS failed, then it would be pretty slim pickings on recovery software/companies to choose from (if any at all). I also specifically said it was an "OK" choice, implying it wasn't my *first* choice and I clearly stated performance "isn't awesome" with it. Again, I wouldn't use NTFS for a production server and I felt the context of the email conversation made it clear this was for personal, archival purposes only. My original email was a quick 5 minute response that skipped a lot of details because I was hoping to avoid having to spend a few hours describing things into details (as I am now doing). I honestly thought a lot more people would pipe up in the conversation which would provide more opportunity for discussing the finer details, In particular Sameer who would have provided more details about his particular needs and more deeper conversation could have been had. I now realize that was a pretty big assumption to make. I didn't think I was writing a email that was going to be the "end-all be-all" guide to filesystems, and I felt I had been expressing this as part of a discussion, not a definitive guide. I hope at least some of this information is useful to those of you out there, and that at least some of this will at least explain my through process to why I had made the "pretty bad advice" that I did. No single data storage implementation is EVER 100% safe. The best you can do is take precautions to decrease the odds of data loss/corruption (backup, error correction code at the file/software/database/filesystem level, quality hardware, ecc memory on ALL components/cards/controllers/buffers/caches, conditioned power lines, RF shielded building, etc,etc) but freak accidents can and DO happen. The best you can do is decide how important your information is and take steps to bring the probability within a level of probability (and cost) you are comfortable with. thanks, Ian From pi at berkeley.edu Sat Dec 31 01:42:28 2011 From: pi at berkeley.edu (Paul Ivanov) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 01:42:28 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> References: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> Message-ID: <20111231094228.GI2634@ykcyc> Hey Ian, everyone, Ian Sidle, on 2011-12-31 01:07, wrote: > I hope at least some of this information is useful to those of you out there this. Thanks! For example, I didn't know about block-level checksumming of ZFS, though I've long heard praises of ZFS from Solaris and BSD folks, but those always focused on zpools and how ridiculously large an fs one could make, stripe it across drives, etc, which I had no interest in. best, -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jim at systemateka.com Sat Dec 31 08:15:02 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 08:15:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> References: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> Message-ID: <1325348102.1678.222.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Two points: * Thank you for the details. Thank you a lot! This comment responds to your note (at bottom) that in your previous (original) email on this topic you hoped not to spend time writing lots of detail (and your original email was quite helpful in my view). Writing to a community mailing list can be a real <--- benefit to a few who, like me, care about the topic. So more thanks for the time you took to write this. * In your reply you have a number of references to problems with corrupted data due to power failure. It seems to me that there are two hardware failure points that threaten data: disk drive failure and power supply failure. In either case, regular and frequent backups are essential to guaranteeing data recovery. With respect to power supplies, I once encountered a drive that had suffered a power supply that failed then recovered then failed then recovered... multiple times in a few seconds. The lost+found directories for the file systems were bizarre. I could not recover the data (someone more expert than I managed to recover with the help of exotic tools). On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 01:07 -0800, Ian Sidle wrote: > > Let me apologize first if the following seems flip, but based on my > > personal and practical experience with large filesystems, you were > > given pretty bad advice. > Based on the phrasing, I get the impression that you feel that every statement that I made in my email was incorrect. > > I must admit that to many, filesystems is as much personal preference as it is "science" and it is very easy to tread into flame wars over the subject, so I will attempt to tread carefully. > > First, let's start with the original request > > > Any recommendations on a 3TB Western Digital external USB drive? Came > > natively with a NTFS. Access will be via Linux only and will be used > > for backup. > > The purpose of this drive's use is for a Backup and the request is for a filesystem that is appropriate for this particular situation (as opposed to a generalized discussion of file systems). > > Sameer Verma did not answer any of the (IMHO) fairly reasonable questions that jim at systemateka.com posted, wanting further information about the data to be stored and what kind of features were desired. (what number of files, their size, journalism, whether performance was a priority, cross-platform accessibility,etc). > > Lacking any of this information, I operated from what I feel was a fairly conservative set of criteria for my recommendation. > Since he did not mention anything about a "business" or some other type of organization I am going to assume this was going to be for personal use and this 3TB drive was going to be the sole backup location. > > > #1 High data stability > > #2 How many methods are available to recover information in the event of double-catastrophy (i.e. where both the original computer and the "backup" drive are stored in the same room and a fire/flood/other disaster effects BOTH copies of the data). True, it is better to have an off-site copy of the data in multipule-geographically and physically secured locations, but *very* rarely is that done practice by individuals at home. > > #3 Compatibility with other operating systems. True, the original posted said it was only necessary for it to work with linux, but situations may change in the future and one might need to be able to get to your data on a platform different from the one where you started. > > > Next, lets go over the parts where we BOTH agreed. > > > "BTRFS This means that it is currently possible to corrupt a btrfs filesystem.. Isn't that special?" > Swimming through your sarcasm, I got the impression you did not recommend the use of BTRFS. > In my previous email, I said exactly " it's going to be quite a while before it is release quality". > I would believe most people would consider calling something NOT release quality to be the opposite of a recommendation for it's use. > > > > Reiser: > > Excuse the pun, but Reiser is effectively dead > I completely agree, and I felt the phrase "I don't expect there to be much support in the future" to convey a sentiment similar to what you were expressing, coupled with the phrase "I wouldn't trust it for much of anything" as a recommendation against it's use. > > > I don't have a whole lot of experience with EXT4. So the only thing I can say about it is that it's new yet to be proven in production > Glad you agree with me again, since I would feel most people would consider saying it had "some reliability issues" as being a suggest AGINST it's use... > > > Now to where there was some dispute. > > > > ZFS (http://zfsonlinux.org/): > > "Please keep in mind the current 0.5.2 stable release does not yet > > support a mountable filesystem." - You've gotta ask yourself a > > question: "Do I feel lucky?" If you want ZFS, do it on Solaris. > > I did NOT recommend using the kernel-based patch for native ZFS support, and instead I stated you should use the "zfs-fuse" implementation, which some people believe to be a stable implementation (albeit not very fast) that is also linux compatible. > > "zfs-fuse is mature and stable enough to trust data to it" > http://www.virag.si/2010/06/zfs-fuse-0-6-9-on-ubuntu-lucid-lynx/ > > "From this, I conclude that ZFS-Fuse is pretty stable" > http://mindinthewater.blogspot.com/2010/06/zfs-fuse-reliability-report.html > > "I've been using ZFS-FUSE for several weeks with many terabytes of data and I believe it is stable and ready for prime time. " > https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=109536 > > As for recovery potential, no doubt one could use the free software available on OpenSolaris, Nexentia or even Oracle Solaris Express for data recovery by running it off a bootable CDROM. I wouldn't be surprised that there is companies that will provide data recovery services since there is considerable corporate backing. > > Now, if this was a situation where this file system was to be used for a server, then I would have recommended something else (or at least, a solaris derivative). > > In the end, the choice of ZFS on linux is at best a compromise, and I certainly admit that. The big feature for this activity is that it automatically provides checksums on the contents of the data blocks, and therefore of file contents. This provides to some extent a "self-healing" capability, but I must admit it isn't particularly useful unless you are using ZRAID or the copies=2/3 feature (that stores multiple copies of each file in the filesystem). > > > > EXT2/3: > > "Are you crazy? The fall will probably kill you." > > > > All else aside, just the fsck time alone on a large volume rules this > > out > True, fsck can be rather inconvenient with EXT2 but again this isn't a drive that requires high performance, high uptime or other specialized needs. > Reliability of the filesystem and Data consistency is going to be way more important with a backup drive then anything else. *if* the drive is not mounted cleanly consistency can sometimes be an issue but generally you don't want to keep your backup drive plugged in all the time anyway in case of power surges,etc. Even then, the vast majority of the time it can be fixed with fsck, it merely takes some time which isn't a big deal based on the suggested criteria. > > There is many programs that will provide data recovery for ext2, as well as readers for nearly any platform in existence. > > > > The only filesystem that I personally for "large" volumes is JFS. > At least at one point (a number of years ago now, I must admit) most of the articles I had read that talked about JFS, described it as being a half-complete project that was abandoned by IBM. At the time, the performance was slightly better then XFS in some regards, and worse then others but reliability was an major issue since it was still labeled as "beta". > > According to wikipedia, XFS was included in the stable, mainline Linux kernel tree with version 2.4.0 [January 01, 2001] as a stable release and JFS was included in kernel version 2.4.18 [Feb 25, 2002] and was appropriately labeled as a "experimental" feature. For political reasons, pre-stable and early 1.0-ish releases were not part of the mainline kernel and therefore required manually patching the linux kernel until later. > > Depending on where you look, it's clear that JFS is not exactly flawless as you seem to imply > > "We have found that the jfs filesystem is not reliable in Linux 2.6.24, however in 2.6.21 it is extremely robust." > http://www.embeddedarm.com/about/resource.php?item=459 > > Wait... so it suddenly becomes significantly less stable with a /newer/ version of the kernel??? > > "I have a server with a JFS filesystem on it that's gotten corrupted." > http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Ubuntu/2009-04/msg00156.html > > "I recently encountered JFS filesystem corruption on a system" > http://old.nabble.com/JFS-corruption-%22Stale-NFS-filehandle%22-td26287390.html > > "JFS Corruption? Can't recover filesystem" > http://www.mail-archive.com/jfs-discussion at lists.sourceforge.net/msg01491.html > > "JFS: long fsck time on large filesystem?" - 12+ hour fsck on a 7TB JFS filesystem > http://serverfault.com/questions/154736/jfs-long-fsck-time-on-large-filesystem > > I'm not trying to say JFS is garbage (I am surprised to read how many positive reviews on it there is now) but it sounds like it is far from perfect and as I have learned, one line statements rarely convey the entire of any given situation. > > ----- > > > > XFS: > > XFS on Linux is not XFS on SGI. My personal experience with XFS on > > Linux is that it's basically unusable. > > "In my personal experience, XFS is very unreliable". That is the problem with personal experience - it can vary widely and it's hard to prove anything without hard facts. > > I've used it on Desktops, Laptops and a Servers running XFS - some were always shutdown cleanly and others where lab computers that were frequently unplugged resulting in very dirty file systems. With my personal experience I never had any trouble with XFS. XFS had gotten a bad rap because it will result in silent data loss if files were being worked on at the moment of a dirty unmount (i.e. power outage or crashes), since it keeps a significant amount of write cache in memory before writing it to disk. However, this is more of a design choice rather then a faulty design. > > > > I had a few years ago tried it again just to see, and there was silent data corruption on disk. > Silent corruption of data on a risk is impossible to eliminate entirely without using a filesystem that supports block-level checksums and repair parity data - period. JFS does not support this feature, so nobody can claim JFS to be impervious to it. You could argue that one file system has a higher probability of having silent data corruption, but that wasn't a part of your arguments. The only file systems available in OSS that provide block-level checksums is ZFS and BTRFS, and since BTRFS is still in the design stages, ZFS is the remaining options. > > For the record, XFS make a series of design choices that many people thought were bugs. > > First, the file system works on the assumption it is running on a Server in an enterprise environment, with ample amounts of memory, backup sources of power and therefore it keeps large amounts of write data cached and only flushes it at much longer intervals then other file systems. If you had been in the middle of a lot of large operations and then the power goes out, you would loose the data that was stored in the RAM cache. To an extent, this is true with all filesystems and is always a risk, but XFS chose to be more aggressive then most in order to gain additional performance. > > Secondly - when there is possibilities of data corruption, XFS will intentionally write a bunch of zeros over the blocks that it is suspicious of because of after a hard power off. So, instead of having a file that has data that can potentially have data corruption in it and therefore the whole file is suspect but there is no way to know for sure which portion of the data is correct (as what happens with most filesystems), instead you have blocks that you know are bad (because they are all zeros') and now one knows it is time to recover those blocks/file from backups. Depending on your perspective, this is "too aggressive" or "too conservative" depending on your personal philosophy. It's certainly /different/ then most of the other file systems out there. > > This was a design *choice* made by the programmers because they made a lot of assumptions about the environment it would be running it in, what priorities the people running it would have and then optimized it for those build requirements. That's probably why your experience did not change when you used it again later, because it was still operating "as designed". > > Now, stepping back and re-evaluating everything I've now said, maybe XFS wasn't the best of choices for this particular situation. If I was able to make the assumption that the drive would be turned on, mounted, used and then cleanly unmounted right after use then I feel it would still be a ok choice but if the person was going to be rough with it (regularly unplug it without properly unmounting it) then I would have recommended something else. > > > > ..you might have to fsck an volume, then your data is > > effectively offline for hours upon hours. I had tried an 8TB volume > > with EXT3 once and had to migrate the data off (the write performance > > had mysterious hit a cliff when we went above a certain number of > > files/directories). > Indeed. I was not recommending EXT3 to be used on a server that had a multi-terrabyte filesystem where downtime would be a problem... > > > [EXT4] is unlikely ever to > > make it into the mainline kernel. > According to wikipedia, EXT4 has been included in the mainline kernel On 11 October 2008, version 2.6.28.... > I know a number of distributions (including ubuntu & centos ) have used it as their default filesystem for some time... > > However, even the developer of EXT4 admit's that it is a "stop gap solution", and I know (at least initially) there was a lot of problems with ubuntu installations when it first came out because of file system problems. > > > > > > NTFS-3g: > > "NTFS-3G supports partial NTFS journaling, so if an unexpected > > computer failure leaves the file system in an inconsistent state, the > > volume can be repaired." - from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS-3G. > > Again, how comfortable are you with regard to possibly losing your > > backup data? > > I've used NTFS-3G for years, on both Linux and Mac OS X computers. Primarily for accessing my ~300GB USB drive, that I use it for recovering/transfer different users data between computers & operating systems. It's never been particularly fast I must admit, but i've never had any major reliability problems with it. Every once in a while I have to run a disk check, but that can easily be just as much the windows NTFS implementation as it could be NTFS-3G's. That's just my personal, anecdotical experience though. > > It's pretty clear that the makers of NTFS-3G are confident in it's ability to repair the system on the fly > "Historically NTFS-3G had very rigid sanity checks and this won't change in the future" and even though on the page they released a offline recovery tool, they implied that they felt it would rarely be necessary in this PR release > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.ntfs-3g.devel/678 > > In the FAQ, they mention a couple of bugs in the /Microsoft/ implementation that is a problem in windows that does not effect NTFS-3G > http://www.tuxera.com/community/ntfs-3g-faq/#questions > > "NTFS-3g is mature enough to rely on these days." > http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1211829 > > "use NTFS-3G...[this] project [is] free, open-source and mature." > http://superuser.com/questions/45130/cross-platform-file-system > > "I?ve been using NTFS-3G in Linux for many years and haven?t had any problems with it.." > http://blog.thewheatfield.org/tag/osx/ > > "NTFS-3G develops, quality tests and supports a trustable, feature rich and high performance solution for hardware platforms and operating systems whose users need to reliably interoperate with NTFS." > > "The driver is used by millions of computers, consumer electronics devices for reliable data exchange, and referenced in more than 30 computer books. Please see our test methods and testimonials on the driver quality page at www.ntfs-3g.org." > > True, this might be just a lot of marketing speak, but I've known a ton of people who use it and it is fairly stable for them. > > > There is countless recovery programs for the filesystem and every "drive savers" type of company known to man kind supports the filesystem. That was the primary reason why I even suggested it as an option. If the disk platter on a drive running JFS/XFS failed, then it would be pretty slim pickings on recovery software/companies to choose from (if any at all). > > I also specifically said it was an "OK" choice, implying it wasn't my *first* choice and I clearly stated performance "isn't awesome" with it. > > > Again, I wouldn't use NTFS for a production server and I felt the context of the email conversation made it clear this was for personal, archival purposes only. > > > My original email was a quick 5 minute response that skipped a lot of details because I was hoping to avoid having to spend a few hours describing things into details (as I am now doing). I honestly thought a lot more people would pipe up in the conversation which would provide more opportunity for discussing the finer details, In particular Sameer who would have provided more details about his particular needs and more deeper conversation could have been had. I now realize that was a pretty big assumption to make. > > I didn't think I was writing a email that was going to be the "end-all be-all" guide to filesystems, and I felt I had been expressing this as part of a discussion, not a definitive guide. > > I hope at least some of this information is useful to those of you out there, and that at least some of this will at least explain my through process to why I had made the "pretty bad advice" that I did. > > No single data storage implementation is EVER 100% safe. The best you can do is take precautions to decrease the odds of data loss/corruption (backup, error correction code at the file/software/database/filesystem level, quality hardware, ecc memory on ALL components/cards/controllers/buffers/caches, conditioned power lines, RF shielded building, etc,etc) but freak accidents can and DO happen. > > The best you can do is decide how important your information is and take steps to bring the probability within a level of probability (and cost) you are comfortable with. > > thanks, > Ian > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Dec 31 12:53:10 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:53:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: <1325348102.1678.222.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> <1325348102.1678.222.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20111231205310.GA22539@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim (jim at systemateka.com): > * In your reply you have a number of references to problems > with corrupted data due to power failure. > It seems to me that there are two hardware failure > points that threaten data: disk drive failure and power > supply failure. Well, also: [...] What probably hit you here is caused by the very simple fact that PC-class hardware is crap. You see, when you yank the power cord out of the wall, not all parts of the computer stop functioning at the same time. As the voltage starts dropping on the +5 and +12 volt rails, certain parts of the system may last longer than other parts. For example, the DMA controller, hard drive controller, and hard drive unit may continue functioning for several hundred of milliseconds, long after the DIMMs, which are very voltage sensitive, have gone crazy, and are returning total random garbage. If this happens while the filesystem is writing critical sections of the filesystem metadata, well, you get to visit the fun Web pages at http://You.Lose.Hard/ . I was actually told about this by an XFS engineer, who discovered this about the hardware. Their solution was to add a power-fail interrupt and bigger capacitors in the power supplies in SGI hardware; and, in Irix, when the power-fail interrupt triggers, the first thing the OS does is to run around frantically aborting I/O transfers to the disk. Unfortunately, PC-class hardware doesn't have power-fail interrupts. Remember, PC-class hardware is cr*p. [...] Much more at http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Filesystems/reiserfs.html On the other bit, Jim, when I saw how vaguely you defined your question, I decided to kick back and let other people chew up their time on it. Attempting to pick a suitable filesystem without knowing the requrements is dumb. FWIW, if I needed a high degree of data protection and short fsck times on a multiterabyte filesystem, I wouldn't go fo zfs-fuse, which is not only inherently slow but also is an ugly hack that will never be maintainable on account of licence conflict that makes unlawful even any distribution of binaries, not to mention merger into mainline. So, in that usage case, what I would use instead is Nexenta, which is close enough to Debian userspace on a Solaris kernel that I estimate I'd feel mostly at home. From jim at systemateka.com Sat Dec 31 13:24:33 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:24:33 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: <20111231205310.GA22539@linuxmafia.com> References: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> <1325348102.1678.222.camel@jim-LAPTOP> <20111231205310.GA22539@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1325366673.17639.19.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Thanks for the reply. http://www.nexenta.org/ # behaves oddly with my browser seems to be a ZFS-based storage appliance with a variety of software tools; difficult to read for me, anyway, as the description is in a box that disappears to be replaced by some other stuff.... yes? the machine I was working with was a supermicro 1U, can't remember now exactly its configuration (e.g. I'm pretty sure only one power supply rather than a dual power supply that's common in enterprise class machines). On Sat, 2011-12-31 at 12:53 -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim (jim at systemateka.com): > > > * In your reply you have a number of references to problems > > with corrupted data due to power failure. > > It seems to me that there are two hardware failure > > points that threaten data: disk drive failure and power > > supply failure. > > Well, also: > > [...] > What probably hit you here is caused by the very simple fact that > PC-class hardware is crap. > > You see, when you yank the power cord out of the wall, not all parts of > the computer stop functioning at the same time. As the voltage starts > dropping on the +5 and +12 volt rails, certain parts of the system may > last longer than other parts. For example, the DMA controller, hard > drive controller, and hard drive unit may continue functioning for > several hundred of milliseconds, long after the DIMMs, which are very > voltage sensitive, have gone crazy, and are returning total random > garbage. If this happens while the filesystem is writing critical > sections of the filesystem metadata, well, you get to visit the fun Web > pages at http://You.Lose.Hard/ . > > I was actually told about this by an XFS engineer, who discovered this > about the hardware. Their solution was to add a power-fail interrupt and > bigger capacitors in the power supplies in SGI hardware; and, in Irix, > when the power-fail interrupt triggers, the first thing the OS does is > to run around frantically aborting I/O transfers to the disk. > Unfortunately, PC-class hardware doesn't have power-fail interrupts. > Remember, PC-class hardware is cr*p. > [...] > > Much more at http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Filesystems/reiserfs.html > > > On the other bit, Jim, when I saw how vaguely you defined your question, > I decided to kick back and let other people chew up their time on it. > Attempting to pick a suitable filesystem without knowing the requrements > is dumb. > > FWIW, if I needed a high degree of data protection and short fsck times > on a multiterabyte filesystem, I wouldn't go fo zfs-fuse, which is not > only inherently slow but also is an ugly hack that will never be > maintainable on account of licence conflict that makes unlawful even any > distribution of binaries, not to mention merger into mainline. > > So, in that usage case, what I would use instead is Nexenta, which is > close enough to Debian userspace on a Solaris kernel that I estimate I'd > feel mostly at home. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From jim at systemateka.com Sat Dec 31 13:34:04 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 13:34:04 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] NO SF-LUG MEETING TOMORROW! CAFE ENCHANTE IS CLOSED TOMORROW, SUNDAY, JANUARY 1, 2012 Message-ID: <1325367244.17639.29.camel@jim-LAPTOP> CAFE ENCHANTE IS CLOSED TOMORROW, SUNDAY, JANUARY 1, 2012 SF-LUG generally meets every first Sunday of every month regardless of holidays or sports events or anything else (likewise as to the third Monday of every month... ...however... It occurred to me to drive by and ask if cafe enchante will be open tomorrow, Sunday, 20120101 and the lady at the counter said, "No. They don't want to pay us double time." CAFE ENCHANTE IS CLOSED TOMORROW, SUNDAY, JANUARY 1, 2012 From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Dec 31 19:32:48 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:32:48 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] filesystem for a 3TB external USB drive In-Reply-To: <1325366673.17639.19.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <92F32B0F-7980-4C82-88EA-A80B78E2349B@iansidle.com> <1325348102.1678.222.camel@jim-LAPTOP> <20111231205310.GA22539@linuxmafia.com> <1325366673.17639.19.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20120101033248.GZ24477@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim (jim at systemateka.com): > Thanks for the reply. No problem. (Jim was kind enough to jog my memory offlist of the fact that it wasn't he who posed the question at the beginning of this thread, but rather Sameer. Nothing wrong with the question, and it was an interesting topic, but, as originally posed, more detail about requirements was necessary before it could be intelligently answered.) > http://www.nexenta.org/ # behaves oddly with my browser > > seems to be a ZFS-based storage appliance with a variety > of software tools; Um, no. It's a general-purpose *ix OS with a GNU userspace atop a Solaris kernel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexenta_OS > the machine I was working with was a supermicro 1U, > can't remember now exactly its configuration (e.g. I'm > pretty sure only one power supply rather than a dual > power supply that's common in enterprise class machines). Yes? I hope you noted Ted T'so's point in the passage I quoted, which is that PC-type HBAs and hard disks often behave really, really badly as they lose power, and can write highly destructive garbage in the fraction of a second before they fully lose power. For that reason, there are severe risks in using filesystems designed with the assumption of well-behaved workstation-grade hardware (e.g., ReiserFS, XFS), and there is safety to be found in filesystems coded defensively with poorly behaving hardware in mind (e.g., ext3).