From michaelabehsera at gmail.com Sat Jul 2 11:34:27 2011 From: michaelabehsera at gmail.com (Chris via thirstyapp.com) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2011 13:34:27 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Chris Is Inviting You to Check Out Thirsty Message-ID: <1309631667.5254866587333185@mf37.sendgrid.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 14:30:18 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 14:30:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata Message-ID: Jeff, My memory of the item in the K &R C Programming book which was wrong was jogged by scanning the errata: I think the problem involved the definition vs. declaration of a variable, and when memory actually was reserved. I did pass my copy of the book along, so I can't check my margin notes. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at systemateka.com Sun Jul 3 15:13:57 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 15:13:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1309731237.1614.31.camel@jim-LAPTOP> I think declaring a variable is type identifier, e.g. int i; and defining a variable is type identifier assign value, e.g. int j = 3; declaring a function (not in K&R) is prototyping type identifier argtypes, e.g. int doit(int, char *); defining a function is type identifier arguments block, e.g. int doit(int k, char * s) { while (k--) puts(s); } As to when memory is actually reserved is puzzling (to keep it simple, stick to variables): when it encounters a variable declaration, the c compiler updates its symbol table to record the identifier (name of the variable) and its type. when it encounters a variable definition, the c compiler updates its symbol table and is forced to enter the assigned value somewhere in the region that will ultimately be (in) the data segment. (assuming the above is more or less correct) the puzzling part has to do with the optimizing pass of the compiler and the linking pass. any c compiler must correctly implement the specification of the c language but may do so however its designers choose. there is no requirement that the compiler "allocates" memory at any particular point in the process. the compiler may set up images of segments for machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) during its compile phase or defer that work until it's in the optimizing phase. regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared variable or not, depending on the variable's status as global or as local within some function. it will likely defer such allocation until it has determined that the variable is used at some point in the program's flow (or issue a warning of an unused identifier). the optimizing stage may do the allocation or change the compile-pass allocation (possibly determining that the variable needs no allocation in the data segment). the linker (or link phase) may revise any and all uses of memory, likely reorganizing the data segment into sub-segments (e.g. constants all together, ints all together, strings all together...). put succinctly, who could ever say? the language designers themselves were careful to keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the specification. i present the above respectfully as a question: what's the actual answer? with thanks On Sun, 2011-07-03 at 14:30 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: > Jeff, > My memory of the item in the K &R C Programming book which was wrong > was jogged by scanning the errata: I think the problem involved the > definition vs. declaration of a variable, and when memory actually was > reserved. I did pass my copy of the book along, so I can't check my > margin notes. > Ken > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Jul 3 16:31:28 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2011 16:31:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: <1309731237.1614.31.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1309731237.1614.31.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: Let's try this again, to the list this time (sorry for the repeat, Jim). Ken, I think I should be fine, from what you're telling me; so far, I haven't really had compile-time problems with variable declarations/definitions, save when I was (well ahead of the topic's introduction in my reading of K&R) trying to re-familiarize myself with something like proper pointer declaration/usage (which was never that familiar to me anyway). Jim, I don't know the answer to that question, though I would also be interested in it, if someone has it in broad strokes. I did, however, think of something related to real-world usage of functional programming languages (relating to our brief conversational digression towards Haskell). Erlang, a similar functional programming language, started life as a telecom language (at Ericsson), and today is used in a few major projects where concurrency, distribution, and/or message passing are critical. For reasons I only passingly understand (related mostly to the type system employed, I think), it is supposedly less mathematically rigorous than Haskell (and perhaps some others, like OCaml), which is to say, if I understand correctly, that it is a less faithful implementation of or the calculi/logic systems and type/constraint systems that serve as the theoretical underpinning of at least some other languages classified as "functional". The consequences of such deviations from purity are probably not that relevant, provided you aren't, for instance, trying to implement "provers" (of mathematical theories), as some folks do in Haskell and a handful other languages. Erlang is sort of exceptional in its inclusion in some major projects, as I can't think of another functional language that has a noticeable market presence; maybe to some degree Clojure (a LISPy language targeting the JVM and CLR) or F# (assuming it is regarded as truly functional; I know very little about it, as it's connections to the Microsoft world limit my interest in it), but little else that seems to be getting anywhere, as far as I can tell. One of Erlang's selling points is legendary uptime, and the ability to do some rather cool things (assuming you planned a little for it and hooked in support for it) like updating running code _without_ restarting the server; the new code just kicks in at the first request to be serviced after it is added. Also, since it is very much "functional" in that variables are variables in the mathematical sense (single-assignment), this bit of functional purity is theorized to be much of the reason for the legendary uptime (no possibility of cross-process/-object contamination due to actor model/message passing rather than shared memory, fewer opportunities for race conditions). I'm not saying it's particularly practical; it still often requires a very different approach, which is not easily won, and can make solving messy, real world problems seem more difficult (and sometimes it truly is). Nevertheless, it's an example of a functional programming language that was conceived and implemented in and for the real world for practical (if specialized) use, rather than in academia as a tool for teaching language construction/design/theory. On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:13 PM, jim wrote: > > > I think declaring a variable is > type identifier, e.g. > int i; > > and defining a variable is > type identifier assign value, e.g. > int j = 3; > > declaring a function (not in K&R) is prototyping > type identifier argtypes, e.g. > int doit(int, char *); > > defining a function is > type identifier arguments block, e.g. > int doit(int k, char * s) { while (k--) puts(s); } > > > As to when memory is actually reserved is puzzling > (to keep it simple, stick to variables): > > when it encounters a variable declaration, the c > compiler updates its symbol table to record the > identifier (name of the variable) and its type. > when it encounters a variable definition, the c > compiler updates its symbol table and is forced to > enter the assigned value somewhere in the region that > will ultimately be (in) the data segment. > > (assuming the above is more or less correct) the > puzzling part has to do with the optimizing pass of the > compiler and the linking pass. any c compiler must > correctly implement the specification of the c language > but may do so however its designers choose. there is no > requirement that the compiler "allocates" memory at any > particular point in the process. > the compiler may set up images of segments for > machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) > during its compile phase or defer that work until it's > in the optimizing phase. > regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared > variable or not, depending on the variable's status as > global or as local within some function. it will likely > defer such allocation until it has determined that the > variable is used at some point in the program's flow (or > issue a warning of an unused identifier). > the optimizing stage may do the allocation or change > the compile-pass allocation (possibly determining that > the variable needs no allocation in the data segment). > the linker (or link phase) may revise any and all > uses of memory, likely reorganizing the data segment > into sub-segments (e.g. constants all together, ints all > together, strings all together...). > > put succinctly, who could ever say? > the language designers themselves were careful to > keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the > specification. > i present the above respectfully as a question: what's > the actual answer? > > with thanks > > > > > On Sun, 2011-07-03 at 14:30 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > Jeff, > > My memory of the item in the K &R C Programming book which was wrong > > was jogged by scanning the errata: I think the problem involved the > > definition vs. declaration of a variable, and when memory actually was > > reserved. I did pass my copy of the book along, so I can't check my > > margin notes. > > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at systemateka.com Sun Jul 3 18:22:47 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2011 18:22:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: <1309731237.1614.31.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <1309742567.1614.35.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Thanks both. my blurb on declare/define, i think, has little or no practical value. i'm in the middle of teaching a C seminar, so that stuff is on my mind, and i'm interested in the truth of things, especially if i've got any of it wrong. your blurb on haskell/erlang is just right for me, more and more thanks. if i ever go functional, i'll first turn to erlang. On Sun, 2011-07-03 at 16:31 -0700, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Let's try this again, to the list this time (sorry for the repeat, > Jim). > > Ken, > I think I should be fine, from what you're telling me; so far, I > haven't really had compile-time problems with variable > declarations/definitions, save when I was (well ahead of the topic's > introduction in my reading of K&R) trying to re-familiarize myself > with something like proper pointer declaration/usage (which was never > that familiar to me anyway). > > Jim, > I don't know the answer to that question, though I would also be > interested in it, if someone has it in broad strokes. > > I did, however, think of something related to real-world usage of > functional programming languages (relating to our brief conversational > digression towards Haskell). Erlang, a similar functional programming > language, started life as a telecom language (at Ericsson), and today > is used in a few major projects where concurrency, distribution, > and/or message passing are critical. For reasons I only passingly > understand (related mostly to the type system employed, I think), it > is supposedly less mathematically rigorous than Haskell (and perhaps > some others, like OCaml), which is to say, if I understand correctly, > that it is a less faithful implementation of or the calculi/logic > systems and type/constraint systems that serve as the theoretical > underpinning of at least some other languages classified as > "functional". The consequences of such deviations from purity are > probably not that relevant, provided you aren't, for instance, trying > to implement "provers" (of mathematical theories), as some folks do in > Haskell and a handful other languages. > > Erlang is sort of exceptional in its inclusion in some major projects, > as I can't think of another functional language that has a noticeable > market presence; maybe to some degree Clojure (a LISPy language > targeting the JVM and CLR) or F# (assuming it is regarded as truly > functional; I know very little about it, as it's connections to the > Microsoft world limit my interest in it), but little else that seems > to be getting anywhere, as far as I can tell. One of Erlang's selling > points is legendary uptime, and the ability to do some rather cool > things (assuming you planned a little for it and hooked in support for > it) like updating running code _without_ restarting the server; the > new code just kicks in at the first request to be serviced after it is > added. Also, since it is very much "functional" in that variables are > variables in the mathematical sense (single-assignment), this bit of > functional purity is theorized to be much of the reason for the > legendary uptime (no possibility of cross-process/-object > contamination due to actor model/message passing rather than shared > memory, fewer opportunities for race conditions). I'm not saying it's > particularly practical; it still often requires a very different > approach, which is not easily won, and can make solving messy, real > world problems seem more difficult (and sometimes it truly is). > Nevertheless, it's an example of a functional programming language > that was conceived and implemented in and for the real world for > practical (if specialized) use, rather than in academia as a tool for > teaching language construction/design/theory. > > On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:13 PM, jim wrote: > > > I think declaring a variable is > type identifier, e.g. > int i; > > and defining a variable is > type identifier assign value, e.g. > int j = 3; > > declaring a function (not in K&R) is prototyping > type identifier argtypes, e.g. > int doit(int, char *); > > defining a function is > type identifier arguments block, e.g. > int doit(int k, char * s) { while (k--) puts(s); } > > > As to when memory is actually reserved is puzzling > (to keep it simple, stick to variables): > > when it encounters a variable declaration, the c > compiler updates its symbol table to record the > identifier (name of the variable) and its type. > when it encounters a variable definition, the c > compiler updates its symbol table and is forced to > enter the assigned value somewhere in the region that > will ultimately be (in) the data segment. > > (assuming the above is more or less correct) the > puzzling part has to do with the optimizing pass of the > compiler and the linking pass. any c compiler must > correctly implement the specification of the c language > but may do so however its designers choose. there is no > requirement that the compiler "allocates" memory at any > particular point in the process. > the compiler may set up images of segments for > machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) > during its compile phase or defer that work until it's > in the optimizing phase. > regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared > variable or not, depending on the variable's status as > global or as local within some function. it will likely > defer such allocation until it has determined that the > variable is used at some point in the program's flow (or > issue a warning of an unused identifier). > the optimizing stage may do the allocation or change > the compile-pass allocation (possibly determining that > the variable needs no allocation in the data segment). > the linker (or link phase) may revise any and all > uses of memory, likely reorganizing the data segment > into sub-segments (e.g. constants all together, ints all > together, strings all together...). > > put succinctly, who could ever say? > the language designers themselves were careful to > keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the > specification. > i present the above respectfully as a question: what's > the actual answer? > > with thanks > > > > > > On Sun, 2011-07-03 at 14:30 -0700, Ken Shaffer wrote: > > Jeff, > > My memory of the item in the K &R C Programming book which > was wrong > > was jogged by scanning the errata: I think the problem > involved the > > definition vs. declaration of a variable, and when memory > actually was > > reserved. I did pass my copy of the book along, so I can't > check my > > margin notes. > > Ken > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From alchaiken at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 00:38:27 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 00:38:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note that there's an Erlang tutorial during OSCON: http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 I'm already signed up. jim writes: I think declaring a variable is type identifier, e.g. int i; and defining a variable is type identifier assign value, e.g. int j = 3; the compiler may set up images of segments for machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) during its compile phase or defer that work until it's in the optimizing phase. regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared variable or not, depending on the variable's status as global or as local within some function. Regarding whether storage is allocated for declared variables I've noticed that declaring int a[100]; increases the size of a binary while int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); does not. That's what you'd expect, as one set of numbers is statically allocated, while the other is allocated dynamically. They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should go into the .bss section of the ELF file (the executable) that the linker produces at the end of compilation. the language designers themselves were careful to keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the specification. True dat, but if I understand correctly, the ELF format used by Linux executables (not just C ones) does constrain the allocations. readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination of precisely what is inside executables. Hallinan's _Embedded Linux Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has helpful comments about using binutils to answer questions like this in Chapter 13. The Hallinan book is available as a free download, but you should buy a hardcopy so that you can sleep with it under your pillow. "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory checker, as is well-known. BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help with legibility. -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at systemateka.com Tue Jul 5 12:05:31 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 12:05:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Thanks for terrific additions: int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); // nice example of use of sizeof "They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should go into the .bss section of the ELF file...." JS: This is Linux-specific behavior? I.e. not necessarily true for non-Linux OSes? Or maybe forced or optionally forced by the gcc compiler? "readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination of precisely what is inside executables." JS: $ which readelf /usr/bin/readelf # probably comes with default Ubuntu 10.04 (my OS) $ vi null.c # int main() { ; } $ gcc -o null null.c $ ./null $ readelf -a null ... ... "Hallinan's _Embedded Linux Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has helpful comments...." JS: PDF is available from http://scorpius.homelinux.org (4.4MB) hardcopy book is distributed by Prentice Hall "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory checker, as is well-known. JS: # apt-get install valgrind # 16+ MB download http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/valgrind.1.html (a highly streamlined tutorial is at: ) http://www.pcdebug.com/linux-debugging/a-primer-on-valgrind-valgrind-tutorial.html "BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help with legibility." JS: no offense taken, thanks for the criticism. I use no-caps for convenience in conversational missives. My take-away is to stop doing so for other than brief comments. Readability is big with me. On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 00:38 -0700, Alison Chaiken wrote: > Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note that > there's an Erlang tutorial during OSCON: > > http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 > > I'm already signed up. > > jim writes: > I think declaring a variable is > type identifier, e.g. > int i; > and defining a variable is > type identifier assign value, e.g. > int j = 3; > > the compiler may set up images of segments for > machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) > during its compile phase or defer that work until it's > in the optimizing phase. > regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared > variable or not, depending on the variable's status as > global or as local within some function. > Regarding whether storage is allocated for declared variables > > I've noticed that declaring > > > int a[100]; > > > increases the size of a binary while > > > int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); > > > does not. That's what you'd expect, as one set of numbers is > statically allocated, while the other is allocated dynamically. They > should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should go > into the .bss section of the ELF file (the executable) that the linker > produces at the end of compilation. > > > the language designers themselves were careful to > keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the > specification. > > > True dat, but if I understand correctly, the ELF format used by Linux > executables (not just C ones) does constrain the allocations. > readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination > of precisely what is inside executables. Hallinan's _Embedded Linux > Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has helpful comments about > using binutils to answer questions like this in Chapter 13. The > Hallinan book is available as a free download, but you should buy a > hardcopy so that you can sleep with it under your pillow. > > > "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory > checker, as is well-known. > > > BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help > with legibility. > > -- > Alison Chaiken > (650) 279-5600 (cell) > http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ > Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From jim at systemateka.com Tue Jul 5 12:16:14 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 12:16:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata ; addendum re null.c In-Reply-To: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <1309893374.1614.226.camel@jim-LAPTOP> re C code for null.c $ file null # to show null is a valid ELF file null: ELF 32-bit LSB executable... $ ls -l null -rwxr-xr-x 1 jim jim 7102 2011-07-05 11:55 null $ # a program with a main with an empty statement is 7K $ valgrind -v ./null # valgrind wants a path ... ==12133== HEAP SUMMARY: ==12133== in use at exit: 0 bytes in 0 blocks ==12133== total heap usage: 0 allocs, 0 frees, 0 bytes allocated ==12133== ==12133== All heap blocks were freed -- no leaks are possible ==12133== ==12133== For counts of detected and suppressed errors, rerun with: -v ==12133== ERROR SUMMARY: 0 errors from 0 contexts (suppressed: 12 from 7) On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 12:05 -0700, jim wrote: > > Thanks for terrific additions: > > int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); > // nice example of use of sizeof > > > "They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should > go into the .bss section of the ELF file...." > JS: This is Linux-specific behavior? I.e. not necessarily true > for non-Linux OSes? Or maybe forced or optionally forced by > the gcc compiler? > > > "readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination of > precisely what is inside executables." > JS: > $ which readelf > /usr/bin/readelf # probably comes with default Ubuntu 10.04 (my OS) > $ vi null.c # int main() { ; } > $ gcc -o null null.c > $ ./null > $ readelf -a null > ... ... > > > "Hallinan's _Embedded Linux Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has > helpful comments...." > JS: PDF is available from http://scorpius.homelinux.org (4.4MB) > hardcopy book is distributed by Prentice Hall > > > "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory > checker, as is well-known. > JS: > # apt-get install valgrind # 16+ MB download > http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/valgrind.1.html > (a highly streamlined tutorial is at: ) > http://www.pcdebug.com/linux-debugging/a-primer-on-valgrind-valgrind-tutorial.html > > > "BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help with > legibility." > JS: no offense taken, thanks for the criticism. I use no-caps > for convenience in conversational missives. My take-away is > to stop doing so for other than brief comments. Readability > is big with me. > > > > On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 00:38 -0700, Alison Chaiken wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note that > > there's an Erlang tutorial during OSCON: > > > > http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 > > > > I'm already signed up. > > > > jim writes: > > I think declaring a variable is > > type identifier, e.g. > > int i; > > and defining a variable is > > type identifier assign value, e.g. > > int j = 3; > > > > the compiler may set up images of segments for > > machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) > > during its compile phase or defer that work until it's > > in the optimizing phase. > > regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared > > variable or not, depending on the variable's status as > > global or as local within some function. > > Regarding whether storage is allocated for declared variables > > > > I've noticed that declaring > > > > > > int a[100]; > > > > > > increases the size of a binary while > > > > > > int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); > > > > > > does not. That's what you'd expect, as one set of numbers is > > statically allocated, while the other is allocated dynamically. They > > should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should go > > into the .bss section of the ELF file (the executable) that the linker > > produces at the end of compilation. > > > > > > the language designers themselves were careful to > > keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the > > specification. > > > > > > True dat, but if I understand correctly, the ELF format used by Linux > > executables (not just C ones) does constrain the allocations. > > readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination > > of precisely what is inside executables. Hallinan's _Embedded Linux > > Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has helpful comments about > > using binutils to answer questions like this in Chapter 13. The > > Hallinan book is available as a free download, but you should buy a > > hardcopy so that you can sleep with it under your pillow. > > > > > > "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory > > checker, as is well-known. > > > > > > BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help > > with legibility. > > > > -- > > Alison Chaiken > > (650) 279-5600 (cell) > > http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ > > Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From alchaiken at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 12:44:21 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:44:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: jim writes: > "They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should > go into the .bss section of the ELF file...." > JS: This is Linux-specific behavior? I.e. not necessarily true > for non-Linux OSes? AFAIK all major Unices have migrated from older a.out to ELF: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/binary-formats.html By the way, binutils has lots of other useful stuff besides readelf, for example nm and objdump. You have hours of happy man-page reading ahead of you! If I didn't have a deadline, I'd make a .c file with int a1; int a2; . . . int a100; and compare it's size to int a[100]; but I have a deadline right now. I don't know the answer to the earlier question about the function declarations and memory and would like to explore that too, but maybe I should try to get my presentation finished before my business trip instead . . . -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pi at berkeley.edu Tue Jul 5 12:51:42 2011 From: pi at berkeley.edu (Paul Ivanov) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:51:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20110705195142.GC12953@ykcyc> jim, on 2011-07-05 12:05, wrote: > "Hallinan's _Embedded Linux Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has > helpful comments...." > JS: PDF is available from http://scorpius.homelinux.org (4.4MB) > hardcopy book is distributed by Prentice Hall I look all around that website and didn't find a direct link to the book. I should have just searched for it - but here's the direct link for the interested readers http://scorpius.homelinux.org/~marc/downloads/embedded-linux-primer-a-practical-real-world-approach.pdf best, -- Paul Ivanov http://pirsquared.org | GPG/PGP key id: 0x0F3E28F7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 13:13:17 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 13:13:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have a couple of books on it (Armstrong's Erlang Programming, Cesarini's & Thompson's Programming Erlang) that I could probably loan out, if you find you want to dive in deeper after the tutorial. On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:38 AM, Alison Chaiken wrote: > Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note that there's an > Erlang tutorial during OSCON: > > http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 > > I'm already signed up. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at systemateka.com Tue Jul 5 13:50:37 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 13:50:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <1309899037.1614.267.camel@jim-LAPTOP> on my 32-bit system, ints are 4 bytes (per sizeof) compiled file with main with empty statement is 7102 bytes main() { ; } compiled file that declares 100 ints is 9099 bytes int i1, i2...i100; main() { ; } // 7102+1997 compiled file that defines 100 ints is 9103 bytes int i1=0, i2=0...i100=0; main() { ; } // 7102+2001 compiled file that declares an array of 100 ints is 7124 bytes int is[100]; main { ; } // 7102+22 compiled file that defines an array of 100 ints is 7576 bytes int is{100] = { 0,0,...0 }; main() { ; } // 7102+474 (452 bigger) next step is to analyze the structure. later, time for lunch. On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 12:44 -0700, Alison Chaiken wrote: > jim writes: > > "They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they > should > > go into the .bss section of the ELF file...." > > JS: This is Linux-specific behavior? I.e. not necessarily true > > for non-Linux OSes? > > AFAIK all major Unices have migrated from older a.out to ELF: > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/binary-formats.html > > By the way, binutils has lots of other useful stuff besides readelf, > for example nm and objdump. You have hours of happy man-page > reading ahead of you! > > If I didn't have a deadline, I'd make a .c file with > > int a1; > int a2; > . . . > int a100; > > > and compare it's size to > > > int a[100]; > > > but I have a deadline right now. I don't know the answer to the > earlier question about the function declarations and memory and would > like to explore that too, but maybe I should try to get my > presentation finished before my business trip instead . . . > > -- > Alison Chaiken > (650) 279-5600 (cell) > http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ > Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. > > From jim at systemateka.com Tue Jul 5 13:56:30 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 13:56:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1309899390.1614.270.camel@jim-LAPTOP> ...after i get through the tutorial..., thanks. here's a list of what's in the binutils package: http://www.gnu.org/software/binutils/ On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 13:13 -0700, Jeff Bragg wrote: > I have a couple of books on it (Armstrong's Erlang Programming, > Cesarini's & Thompson's Programming Erlang) that I could probably loan > out, if you find you want to dive in deeper after the tutorial. > > > On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:38 AM, Alison Chaiken > wrote: > Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note > that there's an Erlang tutorial during OSCON: > > http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 > > I'm already signed up. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From mikkimc at earthlink.net Tue Jul 5 22:05:10 2011 From: mikkimc at earthlink.net (Mikki McGee) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 22:05:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> Hi; Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and how does one locate them to identify and or delete them? Bless All Mikki From testcore at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 22:27:36 2011 From: testcore at gmail.com (Alex Stahl) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 22:27:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Um, cookies aren't specific to Ubuntu. If you use a browser which supports cookies on Ubuntu, and browse to a website that places them, then yes, cookies will be "added" (i.e. stored on the hard drive, which I assume is what you meant). Browsers like Chrome and Firefox will do this by default. Each of them has their own default storage location (folder), and also have interfaces on their menus you can use to delete them. On Chrome, check under Preferences on the menu. On FF, it's Edit->Preferences. The websites for both browsers are quite transparent about where cookies are stored and how they're managed. Best to search the browser-specific help for the exact answer you're looking for (i.e. "delete cookies"). Otherwise, as I stated to begin with, there's nothing specific to (end-user) Ubuntu that's different from cookies on any other system. Cookies are set by the server you visit, not the OS you use. HTH On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Mikki McGee wrote: > Hi; > > Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and how > does one locate them to identify and or delete them? > > > Bless All > > > Mikki > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jul 5 22:42:48 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 22:42:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20110706054248.GC3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and > how does one locate them to identify and or delete them? 'Cookies' (aka 'magic cookies') is a rather general concept in computing (including Linux computing), and it's likely you are intending to ask about one specific type of cookie but not others. You probably mean HTTP cookies, aka Web cookies, aka browser cookies. See: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/HTTP_cookie There are also: o X Window System cookies (which have nothing particularly to do with Web browsers) o 'Flash cookies', which Adobe calls Local Shared Objects (LSOs) To address as stated your question about location: HTTP cookies are stored on any given system wherever the Web browser client program puts them. Firefox on Linux stores them in ~/.mozilla/firefox/[userhash]/cookies.sqlite, which as the name suggests is a SQLite database file. 'To identify or delete them', you say? Hmm, well, knowing the directory location of the SQlite database doesn't help you do that, because what you probably want to do is examine, delete, and otherwise manage HTTP cookies from _inside_ of your Web browser, instead of at the file level. In Firefox, go to Edit menu, Preferences, Privacy, 'remove individual cookies'. This will bring up a Cookies window showing a scrolling display of all currently stored HTTP cookies and domain and what the content, path, type of associated connection, and expiration data is for each. Don't be surprised if the 'Content' field is most often gibberish to you. Anyhow, rummaging through, editing, and pruning the stored HTTP cookies has the net effect of editing the aforementioned SQLite file. As you will see in my lecture slides and notes from my Feb. 2001 talk about browser security in front of SVLUG (SVLUG News column on http://www.svlug.org/), one of my strong recommendations is Beef Taco, a parcel of deliberately long-lived HTTP cookies you can load to preempt the ones you probably most want to avoid. You will also note on Slide 9 the large list of other places a browser provides that can be used by Web sites to store 'cookie'-type information in local browser state, and on slide 10 the core of my argument that Javascript is the key technology that must be corralled by the user to curb abuse. (Sorry, but the slides do not purport to contain my entire lecture; they were merely props / bullet points for it. However, they + the lecture notes aim to come at least close.) From ehud.kaldor at gmail.com Tue Jul 5 23:06:16 2011 From: ehud.kaldor at gmail.com (Ehud Kaldor) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 23:06:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110706054248.GC3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <20110706054248.GC3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E13FB58.5090206@gmail.com> to add some to Rick's recommendations for plugins in the slides (if privacy is indeed the topic at hand), two more that i found recently, for firefox: ghostery - tells you what tracking authorities are tracking you for each site you go to, and allows you to block them. certwatch - tells you who issued the certificate of any new ssl site you go to, and tells you if it changed, subsequently. good against certificate hijacking. --Ehud On 07/05/2011 10:42 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > >> Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and >> how does one locate them to identify and or delete them? > 'Cookies' (aka 'magic cookies') is a rather general concept in computing > (including Linux computing), and it's likely you are intending to ask > about one specific type of cookie but not others. > > You probably mean HTTP cookies, aka Web cookies, aka browser cookies. > See: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/HTTP_cookie > There are also: > > o X Window System cookies (which have nothing particularly to do with > Web browsers) > o 'Flash cookies', which Adobe calls Local Shared Objects (LSOs) > > To address as stated your question about location: HTTP cookies are > stored on any given system wherever the Web browser client program puts > them. Firefox on Linux stores them in > ~/.mozilla/firefox/[userhash]/cookies.sqlite, which as the name suggests > is a SQLite database file. > > 'To identify or delete them', you say? Hmm, well, knowing the directory > location of the SQlite database doesn't help you do that, because what > you probably want to do is examine, delete, and otherwise manage HTTP > cookies from _inside_ of your Web browser, instead of at the file level. > > In Firefox, go to Edit menu, Preferences, Privacy, 'remove individual > cookies'. This will bring up a Cookies window showing a scrolling > display of all currently stored HTTP cookies and domain and what the > content, path, type of associated connection, and expiration data is for > each. Don't be surprised if the 'Content' field is most often gibberish > to you. Anyhow, rummaging through, editing, and pruning the stored HTTP > cookies has the net effect of editing the aforementioned SQLite file. > > As you will see in my lecture slides and notes from my Feb. 2001 talk > about browser security in front of SVLUG (SVLUG News column on > http://www.svlug.org/), one of my strong recommendations is Beef Taco, a > parcel of deliberately long-lived HTTP cookies you can load to preempt > the ones you probably most want to avoid. > > You will also note on Slide 9 the large list of other places a browser > provides that can be used by Web sites to store 'cookie'-type > information in local browser state, and on slide 10 the core of my > argument that Javascript is the key technology that must be corralled > by the user to curb abuse. (Sorry, but the slides do not purport to > contain my entire lecture; they were merely props / bullet points for > it. However, they + the lecture notes aim to come at least close.) > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 02:11:58 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 02:11:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E13FB58.5090206@gmail.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <20110706054248.GC3782@linuxmafia.com> <4E13FB58.5090206@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110706091158.GE3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ehud Kaldor (ehud.kaldor at gmail.com): > to add some to Rick's recommendations for plugins in the slides (if > privacy is indeed the topic at hand), two more that i found recently, > for firefox: > > ghostery - tells you what tracking authorities are tracking you for > each site you go to, and allows you to block them. > > certwatch - tells you who issued the certificate of any new ssl site > you go to, and tells you if it changed, subsequently. good against > certificate hijacking. Hey, thanks, I've been intending to re-find Certwatch, having heard about it quite some time ago, thought it sounded like a wonderful idea, but failed to make a note about its name or location. Will have a look at ghostery, though my gut reaction is that what it promises to do is rendered pretty much irrelevant by the action of AdBlock Plus, NoScript, and Beef Taco. That is, once you've finessed tracking and made it not work, do you really have significant interest in hearing about the trackers and having additional options to disable what the other tools have already caused to not work? Additionally, I note that Ghostery is proprietary software. People retrieving copies are prohibited from redistributing it, creating and distributing modifications or derivative works, and are even prohibited from reverse-engineering it. (Usually, companies doing that sort of free-of-charge but you may not modify or redistribute licensing intend to further restrict later versions if it catches on, and ratchet up the restrictions over time. See, for example, BitKeeper: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Apps/vcs.html#bk ) By contrast, Certwatch 1.1 is open source under Mozilla Public Licence version 1.1. From mikkimc at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 08:46:21 2011 From: mikkimc at earthlink.net (Mikki McGee) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 08:46:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> Hi; Thank you all, for the replies. It is the privacy issue, and the idea that someone is tracking my computer use is a bit repugnant. Sort of pulling the blinds, but not checking under the bed sort of thing. Somewhere short of paranoia? I know that Amazon does monitor my purchases and categories, (very openly) and I don't much mind that. It is perhaps taken for granted that the feds might do a checkup, and that is iffy (in the minding department, if not the control department). I mind that a bit more, but understand some of their concerns. But I have had other experiences . . . Thanks again. Bless All Mikk Mikki McGee wrote: > Hi; > > Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and > how does one locate them to identify and or delete them? > > > Bless All > > > Mikki > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From nbs at sonic.net Wed Jul 6 10:09:50 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 10:09:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, July 18: "Running Databases with Appaserver" Message-ID: <201107061709.p66H9o7m001298@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting this month: Monday July 18, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "Running Databases with Appaserver" Tim Riley, Appahost Appaserver is an open-source, application server used to create multi-user, database applications. It runs on Linux, connecting MySQL to a browser. Appaserver's paradigm is to build database applications without painting or programming the user interface. Instead, applications are assembled from database components -- tables, columns, relations, and roles. Web forms are created dynamically, allowing select, insert, update, and delete operations on each table. About the Speaker: Tim Riley has been building databases since 1987. Professionally, Tim is credited with co-authoring the 1-800-TACOBELL customer service application (CRM). He is currently developing the Everglades National Park's research database. Academically, Tim graduated with high honors in Computer Science by Florida International University. At FIU, he received the 1993 Academic Achievement Award in Computer Science. Currently, Tim is enrolled in the College of Business Administration at California State University, Sacramento and is pursuing a 2nd bachelors degree in Accountancy. This meeting will be held at: Yolo County Public Library, Davis Branch (Mary L. Stephens Branch) Blanchard community meeting room 315 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 11:04:54 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 11:04:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > Thank you all, for the replies. It is the privacy issue, and the > idea that someone is tracking my computer use is a bit repugnant. > Sort of pulling the blinds, but not checking under the bed sort of > thing. Somewhere short of paranoia? At the risk of seeming to toot my own horn, I really do recommend that you read my lecture slides and notes about Firefox browser privacy, then, as it's directly relevant to your concerns. And you should be aware that HTTP cookies were merely what the tracking companies relied on when they were _just getting started_, in 1995. They've gotten a great deal more sophisticated: As I described in my lecture, Samy Kankar has recently reverse-engineered all of the methods the trackers use and how they reinforce and supplement each other -- and JavaScript is the glue that holds it all together, which is why NoScript is the key piece, if you want to defeat such methods and re-level the playing field. There are also other reasons to care, other than just not caring to be spied on. A browser that's been de-junked using NoScript, AdBlock Plus, OptimizeGoogle, Beef Taco, and either Objection or my hacked cronjob to chop off Flash cookies, is markedly faster, less crash-prone, less bloated in RAM (despite the extra browser extensions), and resistant to many security attacks on browsers, which overwhelmingly rely -- of course -- on third-party JavaScript as the attack vector, hence are made to go away by NoScript. Related article, mentioned in my slides and notes: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/firefox.html From mikkimc at earthlink.net Wed Jul 6 11:22:55 2011 From: mikkimc at earthlink.net (Mikki McGee) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 11:22:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4E14A7FF.8010102@earthlink.net> Hi, and thanks again. hmmmn Interesting? Is there any hint of a real, vigorous "Vigilante" response to such apparently 'legal' intrusions? Bless All Mikki Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > > >> Thank you all, for the replies. It is the privacy issue, and the >> idea that someone is tracking my computer use is a bit repugnant. >> Sort of pulling the blinds, but not checking under the bed sort of >> thing. Somewhere short of paranoia? >> > > At the risk of seeming to toot my own horn, I really do recommend that > you read my lecture slides and notes about Firefox browser privacy, > then, as it's directly relevant to your concerns. And you should be > aware that HTTP cookies were merely what the tracking companies relied > on when they were _just getting started_, in 1995. They've gotten a > great deal more sophisticated: As I described in my lecture, Samy > Kankar has recently reverse-engineered all of the methods the trackers > use and how they reinforce and supplement each other -- and JavaScript > is the glue that holds it all together, which is why NoScript is the key > piece, if you want to defeat such methods and re-level the playing > field. > > There are also other reasons to care, other than just not caring to be > spied on. A browser that's been de-junked using NoScript, AdBlock Plus, > OptimizeGoogle, Beef Taco, and either Objection or my hacked cronjob to > chop off Flash cookies, is markedly faster, less crash-prone, less > bloated in RAM (despite the extra browser extensions), and resistant to > many security attacks on browsers, which overwhelmingly rely -- of > course -- on third-party JavaScript as the attack vector, hence are made > to go away by NoScript. > > Related article, mentioned in my slides and notes: > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/firefox.html > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 12:18:22 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 12:18:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] K & R errata In-Reply-To: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1309892731.1614.217.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: And you just might want to strip out the symbols too: strip -o strippednull null #7054 -> 5460 On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 12:05 PM, jim wrote: > > > Thanks for terrific additions: > > int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); > // nice example of use of sizeof > > > "They should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should > go into the .bss section of the ELF file...." > JS: This is Linux-specific behavior? I.e. not necessarily true > for non-Linux OSes? Or maybe forced or optionally forced by > the gcc compiler? > > > "readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination of > precisely what is inside executables." > JS: > $ which readelf > /usr/bin/readelf # probably comes with default Ubuntu 10.04 (my OS) > $ vi null.c # int main() { ; } > $ gcc -o null null.c > $ ./null > $ readelf -a null > ... ... > > > "Hallinan's _Embedded Linux Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has > helpful comments...." > JS: PDF is available from http://scorpius.homelinux.org (4.4MB) > hardcopy book is distributed by Prentice Hall > > > "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory > checker, as is well-known. > JS: > # apt-get install valgrind # 16+ MB download > http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/gutsy/man1/valgrind.1.html > (a highly streamlined tutorial is at: ) > > http://www.pcdebug.com/linux-debugging/a-primer-on-valgrind-valgrind-tutorial.html > > > "BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help with > legibility." > JS: no offense taken, thanks for the criticism. I use no-caps > for convenience in conversational missives. My take-away is > to stop doing so for other than brief comments. Readability > is big with me. > > > > On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 00:38 -0700, Alison Chaiken wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for a fascinating discussion. I note that > > there's an Erlang tutorial during OSCON: > > > > http://www.oscon.com/oscon2011/public/schedule/detail/19085 > > > > I'm already signed up. > > > > jim writes: > > I think declaring a variable is > > type identifier, e.g. > > int i; > > and defining a variable is > > type identifier assign value, e.g. > > int j = 3; > > > > the compiler may set up images of segments for > > machine code (the text segment), data, and the stack(s) > > during its compile phase or defer that work until it's > > in the optimizing phase. > > regardless, it may "allocate" memory for a declared > > variable or not, depending on the variable's status as > > global or as local within some function. > > Regarding whether storage is allocated for declared variables > > > > I've noticed that declaring > > > > > > int a[100]; > > > > > > increases the size of a binary while > > > > > > int a = (int *) malloc(100*sizeof(int)); > > > > > > does not. That's what you'd expect, as one set of numbers is > > statically allocated, while the other is allocated dynamically. They > > should both get initialized to zero, which means that they should go > > into the .bss section of the ELF file (the executable) that the linker > > produces at the end of compilation. > > > > > > the language designers themselves were careful to > > keep I/O and platform and compiler designs out of the > > specification. > > > > > > True dat, but if I understand correctly, the ELF format used by Linux > > executables (not just C ones) does constrain the allocations. > > readelf is a command that comes with binutils and allows examination > > of precisely what is inside executables. Hallinan's _Embedded Linux > > Primer_ (far and away my favorite book) has helpful comments about > > using binutils to answer questions like this in Chapter 13. The > > Hallinan book is available as a free download, but you should buy a > > hardcopy so that you can sleep with it under your pillow. > > > > > > "valgrind --tool=memcheck" is the other gold-standard Linux memory > > checker, as is well-known. > > > > > > BTW Jim, I don't mean to be a flamer, but capitalization does help > > with legibility. > > > > -- > > Alison Chaiken > > (650) 279-5600 (cell) > > http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ > > Spend much time at the cutting edge and you're liable to get cut. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 15:15:57 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 15:15:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E14A7FF.8010102@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <4E14A7FF.8010102@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20110706221557.GL3281@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > Hi, and thanks again. > > hmmmn > > Interesting? > > Is there any hint of a real, vigorous "Vigilante" response to such > apparently 'legal' intrusions? Huh? I'm truly sorry, but I really don't understand what you're asking. -- Cheers, ["Exit, pursued by a bear."] Rick Moen -- The Winter's Tale, Act III, Scene III rick at linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) From ericwrasmussen at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 17:43:28 2011 From: ericwrasmussen at gmail.com (Eric W. Rasmussen) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 17:43:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash Message-ID: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> A while back I went to a LUG meeting and the fine folks helped me add a script to my terminal that activated once it opened. Basically, I need to turn off my touchpad at startup. The script is this: xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 We couldn't get it to automatically deactivate without opening the terminal so I said, Whatever! But I have changed my OS (mint) and I need to do it again. Now I have to run a special .sh file if I want Skype to work correctly. The question is... Where do I place skype.sh and how do I automate the execution once terminal is open. Much thanks if you can walk me through this ewr From cymraegish at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 17:52:03 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 17:52:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Is there or could there be a way to make this all simple for the end-user, with an eye towards gettting enough people to do it to frustrate the attacks enough to make the business not-too-lucrative for the criminals (ie make them want to find an easier way to make a living). I mean distill it all down, make it very easy. By the way I had tried noscript and turned it off whenever I found things not working right - which means it stayed off. I'd like to hear user experiences with using this stuff. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Mikki McGee (mikkimc at earthlink.net): > > > Thank you all, for the replies. It is the privacy issue, and the > > idea that someone is tracking my computer use is a bit repugnant. > > Sort of pulling the blinds, but not checking under the bed sort of > > thing. Somewhere short of paranoia? > > At the risk of seeming to toot my own horn, I really do recommend that > you read my lecture slides and notes about Firefox browser privacy, > then, as it's directly relevant to your concerns. And you should be > aware that HTTP cookies were merely what the tracking companies relied > on when they were _just getting started_, in 1995. They've gotten a > great deal more sophisticated: As I described in my lecture, Samy > Kankar has recently reverse-engineered all of the methods the trackers > use and how they reinforce and supplement each other -- and JavaScript > is the glue that holds it all together, which is why NoScript is the key > piece, if you want to defeat such methods and re-level the playing > field. > > There are also other reasons to care, other than just not caring to be > spied on. A browser that's been de-junked using NoScript, AdBlock Plus, > OptimizeGoogle, Beef Taco, and either Objection or my hacked cronjob to > chop off Flash cookies, is markedly faster, less crash-prone, less > bloated in RAM (despite the extra browser extensions), and resistant to > many security attacks on browsers, which overwhelmingly rely -- of > course -- on third-party JavaScript as the attack vector, hence are made > to go away by NoScript. > > Related article, mentioned in my slides and notes: > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/firefox.html > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cymraegish at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 18:08:01 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:08:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think this should be in some system wide X-window startup file. It is an Xwindow command. On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Eric W. Rasmussen wrote: > A while back I went to a LUG meeting and the fine folks helped me add a > script to my terminal that activated once it opened. Basically, I need to > turn off my touchpad at startup. The script is this: > > xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 > > We couldn't get it to automatically deactivate without opening the terminal > so I said, Whatever! But I have changed my OS (mint) and I need to do it > again. > > Now I have to run a special .sh file if I want Skype to work correctly. > The question is... > > Where do I place skype.sh and how do I automate the execution once terminal > is open. > > Much thanks if you can walk me through this > > ewr > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 18:14:32 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:14:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110706221557.GL3281@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <4E14A7FF.8010102@earthlink.net> <20110706221557.GL3281@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: I get great satisifaction from NoScript when I can give temporary execute rights to the site and not the half-dozen crapware sites they also want to run. Running out of ram does have some additional benefits here, which is what I usually do just for speed. GoogleSharing is the way I anonomize my searches, but I intend to look into customizegoogle that Rick mentioned. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 18:32:15 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:32:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110707013215.GQ3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Eric W. Rasmussen (ericwrasmussen at gmail.com): > A while back I went to a LUG meeting and the fine folks helped me > add a script to my terminal that activated once it opened. Which terminal program? Are you talking about GNOME Terminal? (I'm guessing you are. Skip to 2nd paragraph from end, if so.) I'd guess you're probably running the GNOME edition of Linux Mint, which is the original and best known version. However, FYI, there are also Mint editions based on Xfce, LXDE, and KDE4. Those are all Ubuntu variants. There's also Linux Mint Debian Edition (LMDE) with either GNOME or Xfce desktops. No matter _what_ desktop environment you're running (if any), you're actually able with trivial effort to run pretty much any X11 terminal program: o xterm o rxvt o GNOME terminal o Aterm o Gtkterm o Konsole o Xfce Terminal o Wterm o Mrxvt Me, I always just use xterm. But Your Mileage May Differ. But I'm guessing that you're using GNOME Terminal, and are going to want to create and set as default (within it) a 'profile' (Edit menu, Profiles), then go to the Title and Command tab, and specify what shell commands to automatically execute whenever a GNOME Terminal instance is opened using that profile. You might want to create a 'skype' profile and not set it as default, since it's likely that you're also going to want to run terminals that do _not_ perform Skype operations -- but suit yourself. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 18:48:04 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:48:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > Is there or could there be a way to make this all simple for the > end-user... Sure. Step 1: Put DoubleClick and its competitors out of business, since they're the people cleverly abusing Internet standards to data-mine everyone. Since DoubleClick was bought for 3.1 billion dollars by Google a few years ago, you'll probably need to put Google out of business to make that happen. Step 2: Find an alternative source of financial support for Mozilla Foundation. Mozilla Foundation gets something like 2/3 of its money from Google, Inc., which has a vested interest in spying on users... I mean context-sensitive searching. Once Mozilla Foundation is independently funded and no longer subject to moderately severe conflict of interest[1], maybe they will integrate NoScript, AdBlock Plus, CustomizeGoogle, and Beef Taco into Firefox, and further integration and polishing work done that might succeed in making it all 'simple for the end-user'. Until that happens, you _can_, if you wish, follow the recommendations in my lecture and article (or other similar recommendations from others who understand the problem and actually give a damn about not selling you to the highest bidder) to install/configure those four extensions. Yes, you _will_ have a learning period when starting to use NoScript while you find out which sites malfunction until you enable particular JavaScript snippets on each and say 'Allow [foo] . You can either go through that, or you can give up and be spied on, data-mined, subjected to Trojan-horse attacks, loaded with advertising, hit up with browser bloat, and caused to have your browser blow up from byzantine JavaScript at unplanned intervals. That is Internet reality, as best I understand it. Sorry, I can't make Internet reality simpler. I don't think anyone else can, either. And, by the way, I _am_ a user. You asked to hear from users? You just did. [1] But nowhere near the _extreme_ conflict of interest entailed in the proprietary Chrome browser, or its open-source foundation, Chromium -- considering that those are produced by Google, Inc. directly. From a_kleider at yahoo.com Wed Jul 6 18:47:55 2011 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1310003275.42539.YahooMailNeo@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Eric, I was the one at that meeting trying to solve this for you, along with help from others. We never got it the way you wanted it but what you wanted did come to pass after you opened the terminal (ran bash) for the first time. We did it by putting the command as a line in your ~/.bashrc file. You could do the same with any command.? Alex ? a_kleider at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric W. Rasmussen To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011 5:43 PM Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash A while back I went to a LUG meeting and the fine folks helped me add a script to my terminal that activated once it opened.? Basically, I need to turn off my touchpad at startup. The script is this: xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 We couldn't get it to automatically deactivate without opening the terminal so I said, Whatever!? But I have changed my OS (mint) and I need to do it again. Now I have to run a special .sh file if I want Skype to work correctly.? The question is... Where do I place skype.sh and how do I automate the execution once terminal is open. Much thanks if you can walk me through this ewr _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 18:51:00 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:51:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <4E14A7FF.8010102@earthlink.net> <20110706221557.GL3281@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110707015100.GS3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Ken Shaffer (kenshaffer80 at gmail.com): > Running out of ram does have some additional benefits here, which is what I > usually do just for speed. GoogleSharing is the way I anonomize my > searches, but I intend to look into customizegoogle that Rick mentioned. Recently came across an interesting page about search privacy: http://werebuild.eu/wiki/index.php/No-Google-Day That looks useful enough that I've created a ready-reference link from the words 'Web Search' on the front page of http://linuxmafia.com/ that goes directly there. Among other things, if you can't quite remember the name of Duck Duck Go, it's listed. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 19:04:29 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:04:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <1310003275.42539.YahooMailNeo@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> <1310003275.42539.YahooMailNeo@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110707020429.GT3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Eric, I was the one at that meeting trying to solve this for you, > along with help from others. We never got it the way you wanted it but > what you wanted did come to pass after you opened the terminal (ran > bash) for the first time. We did it by putting the command as a line > in your ~/.bashrc file. You could do the same with any command.? Actually... You know, if he wants to 'turn off my touchpad at startup', it's not actually a terminal issue, nor a shell initialisation (.bashrc) issue. (I was mislead by Eric defining the issue as 'automate the execution once terminal is open'. Turns out, that's incorrect. This has nothing to do with any terminal.) He really wants to add that to his system startup scripts. Should suffice to create the following as /etc/rc.local #!/bin/sh -e # # rc.local # # This script is executed at the end of each multiuser runlevel. # Make sure that the script will "exit 0" on success or any other # value on error. # # In order to enable or disable this script just change the execution # bits. # /usr/bin/xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 Then, do, 'sudo chmod +x /etc/rc.local' Then, reboot. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jul 6 19:08:10 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:08:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <20110707020429.GT3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> <1310003275.42539.YahooMailNeo@web36503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110707020429.GT3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110707020810.GU3782@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > He really wants to add that to his system startup scripts. > > Should suffice to create the following as /etc/rc.local > > #!/bin/sh -e > # > # rc.local > # > # This script is executed at the end of each multiuser runlevel. > # Make sure that the script will "exit 0" on success or any other > # value on error. > # > # In order to enable or disable this script just change the execution > # bits. > # > /usr/bin/xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 ...er, and put 'exit 0' as an additional line at the end. From jim at systemateka.com Wed Jul 6 19:14:02 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2011 19:14:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Adding Scripts to Bash In-Reply-To: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> References: <4E150130.7000601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1310004842.1708.8.camel@jim-LAPTOP> assuming you have an executable program skype.sh and it's in your home directory (e.g. /home/eric). your .bashrc script is the key to automating stuff when you open a terminal window. $ cd $ pwd /home/eric $ gedit .bashrc scroll to the bottom of the file and add the line ./skype.sh save and quit. try it out. if the skype.sh script is somewhere else, e.g. /usr/local/bin, then in your .bashrc file put /usr/local/bin/skype.sh then save, quit, try.... On Wed, 2011-07-06 at 17:43 -0700, Eric W. Rasmussen wrote: > A while back I went to a LUG meeting and the fine folks helped me add a > script to my terminal that activated once it opened. Basically, I need > to turn off my touchpad at startup. The script is this: > > xinput set-int-prop "ETPS/2 Elantech Touchpad" "Device Enabled" 8 0 > > We couldn't get it to automatically deactivate without opening the > terminal so I said, Whatever! But I have changed my OS (mint) and I > need to do it again. > > Now I have to run a special .sh file if I want Skype to work correctly. > The question is... > > Where do I place skype.sh and how do I automate the execution once > terminal is open. > > Much thanks if you can walk me through this > > ewr > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From cymraegish at gmail.com Wed Jul 6 19:58:50 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2011 19:58:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 6:48 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > > > Is there or could there be a way to make this all simple for the > > end-user... > > Once Mozilla Foundation is independently funded and no longer subject to > moderately severe conflict of interest[1], maybe they will integrate > NoScript, AdBlock Plus, CustomizeGoogle, and Beef Taco into Firefox, and > further integration and polishing work done that might succeed in making > it all 'simple for the end-user'. > > ****Why couldn't Linux distributors do this integration? The reason I tried Ad-Block-Plus and NoScript was independent developers and distributors of Firefox browser for obsolete versions of MacOS. My point was to make it so easy for people to install the stuff that it would get popular. Toward this end, your short list in the paragraph directly above is plain and to the point ... Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at ubuntu.com Thu Jul 7 00:55:39 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 00:55:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sun, Jul 10th Noon - 3 BerkeleyLug.com Message-ID: Ilsa has a way with words! Please join us for Android and Linux discussions in Berkeley. Regards, Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: ilsa Date: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 12:27 AM Subject: Digital INTERDEPENDENCE JULY Meeting of the Linux Users Berkeley Group To: berkeleylug at googlegroups.com Hello everyone,Geeks and Geekettes and Nurds too Berkeley Users LUG is a group of kind and generous open source advocates. We are working at various levels of knowledge and abilities. I am a beginner and feel very much at home listening and learning. Other members come to work on problems and projects and have conversations with Like Minded People. You are welcome to bring your equipment and questions. There are No question too small or too large. Or Puxxle, Puzzle less intriguing. We are a wave of consciousness within the beauty of the art of systems in linear flowering. Come bring all your personality and well placed strength. We meet at Bobby G's because it is?convenient?to public transportation. Just a few short blocks from the Berkeley Downtown BART Station. There is a nice opened space and the Pizza is very fresh and delicious. Just a reminder that we will be having our meeting this Sunday??at noon until 3 PM ?Bobby?G's Pizzeria, 2072 University Avenue, Berkeley, CA ?(510) 665-8866 ? Hope to see everyone there. Ilsa Bartlett 510-423-3132 "Don't ever get so big or important that you can not hear and listen to every other person." -John Coltrane -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BerkeleyLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to berkeleylug at googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to berkeleylug+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/berkeleylug?hl=en. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Jul 7 01:04:03 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 01:04:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110707080403.GV3782@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > ****Why couldn't Linux distributors do this integration? It's a really good idea, and I've wondered it myself. At the bare minimum, I expect that distros like Debian could offer a metapackage that in one step pulls down and jams together the browser and several key extensions. (Last I checked, both Debian and Ubuntu offer maintained distro packages for Adblock, Adblock Plus, and NoScript, at bare minimum.) > My point was to make it so easy for people to install the stuff that it > would get popular. Sure, I got that, and I'm sorry if I sounded cranky. If you want to understand why I might get cranky, imagine what it feels like to do a lot of work documenting a problem, why it exists, who's responsible for it (and why the creators of Firefox aren't motivated to help on account of conflict of interest, albeit a thousand times more on your side than the creators of Chrome), exactly how to fix it, and why -- only to hear back 'Yeah, but how can it be made simpler?' Want to make it simpler? Fine, you do it. You think publishing somewhere a 'short, to-the-point list' will help? Cool, you do that. I mean that. If you want to be a part of the Linux community, participate. Don't just idly ask how unspecified theoretical people might do some free work for you. From jasonstone at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 07:56:00 2011 From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 07:56:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <20110707080403.GV3782@linuxmafia.com> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707080403.GV3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: A timely posting on Slashdot today about a visualization program called Collusion that displays behavior tracking... http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/07/08/123217/Visualizing-Behavior-Tracking-Cookies-With-Firefox On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > >> ****Why couldn't Linux distributors do this integration? > > It's a really good idea, and I've wondered it myself. ?At the bare > minimum, I expect that distros like Debian could offer a metapackage > that in one step pulls down and jams together the browser and several > key extensions. ?(Last I checked, both Debian and Ubuntu offer > maintained distro packages for Adblock, Adblock Plus, and NoScript, at > bare minimum.) > > >> My point was to make it so easy for people to install the stuff that it >> would get popular. > > Sure, I got that, and I'm sorry if I sounded cranky. > > If you want to understand why I might get cranky, imagine what it feels > like to do a lot of work documenting a problem, why it exists, who's > responsible for it (and why the creators of Firefox aren't motivated to > help on account of conflict of interest, albeit a thousand times more on > your side than the creators of Chrome), exactly how to fix it, and why > -- only to hear back 'Yeah, but how can it be made simpler?' > > Want to make it simpler? ?Fine, you do it. > > You think publishing somewhere a 'short, to-the-point list' will help? > Cool, you do that. > > I mean that. ?If you want to be a part of the Linux community, > participate. ?Don't just idly ask how unspecified theoretical > people might do some free work for you. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Jul 8 14:38:36 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 14:38:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> <4E14834D.1010502@earthlink.net> <20110706180454.GG3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707014804.GR3782@linuxmafia.com> <20110707080403.GV3782@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110708213836.GK3281@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jason stone (jasonstone at gmail.com): > A timely posting on Slashdot today about a visualization program > called Collusion that displays behavior tracking... > > http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/07/08/123217/Visualizing-Behavior-Tracking-Cookies-With-Firefox Thanks, Jason. Just looking through that, now. Collusion's site (http://collusion.toolness.org/) has an informational diplay that talks about many of the tracking companies, and references an interesting information resource, Privacy Choice (http://privacychoice.org/), which maintains a comprehensive database on tracking companies, their domains, what methods they use, etc. I recommend wariness, however, as Privacy Choice is yet another company pushing proprietary software. (As I speculated the eventual goal will be for the proprietary Ghostery extension Ehud mentioned, Privacy Choice's proprietary licensing for its products prohibits commercial use, so they can sell commercial-usage licensing separately.) Privacy Choice's database is potentially useful because the entire Internet tracking / behavioural marketing / targeted communications / contextual advertising / etc. (the euphemisms are endless) industry tries to keep a _very_ low profile among members of the public at large. For a long time, the best list I had of such firms was my own: Quite a long time ago, in reading site HTML and other clues, I came across stuff (1x1 pixel GIFs, HTML cookies, JavaScript snippets, etc.) pulled down from domains that had nothing to do with the sites I was trying to visit. Curious, I looked into them, and they all seemed to be devoted to spying on the user, throwing unwanted (99.9% of the time) additional advertising at the user, and in many cases accidentally causing browser segfaults, bloat, and slowness. So, I added config items to my DNS nameserver for all of those domains, resolving e.g. anything in doubleclick.net to my own server instead of to (Google-owned) DoubleClick's IPs. I now have dozens of such useless domains blackholed in my BIND9 configuration, with comment lines about who owns/operates them (Overture, Google, Kanoodle, Specificmedia, AdKiwi, AOL, Atlas, Quantcast, Full Circle Studies, Nielsen, Safecount, Audience Science, Blue Kai, CNet, Acerno, Collective Media) and make that config file available for download in case others want to study or use it. The couple of dozen most obnoxious and incontrovertibly evil domains are thus blocked entirely for anyone visiting my house and using my DNS nameserver. (Any visitor who doesn't like my blocking policies is welcome to use a different DNS nameserver.) About Collusion itself: Yes, it's open source. Worth looking at -- but my offhand impression is that it adds nothing to a Firefox installation that already has NoScript and AdBlock Plus. Its list of site that it blocks is worth looking through, and can be seen online here in the git repo, here: https://github.com/toolness/collusion/blob/c3d878c9c5e5df1f53e9283611a9c9e11c2feefa/data/trackers.json Compared to the couple of dozen absolutely evil domains totally blocked by my nameserver, Collusion's has a couple of hundred. Unfortunately, some of them are obviously erroneous, e.g., fwmrm.net, which they block, serves quite a bit of non-advertising video content, and afyll.net, which they block, doesn't exist any more. But anyway, yes, high recommendation (at least) to the informational display at http://collusion.toolness.org/ that shows visually how the web of tracking is implemented at several popular sites (IMDB, NY Times, Huffington Post, Gamespot, Reference.com). It should be an eye-opener for folks. From cymraegish at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 18:57:58 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2011 18:57:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] cookies in Ubuntu In-Reply-To: <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E13ED06.5090802@earthlink.net> Message-ID: In installing Adblock, I just found also the extension Privacy Guard. Very interesting there are flash cookies which are not deleted when you clear cookies in your browser (but Privacy Guard gets them and there is a Proof on their web page). Brian p.s. I can't log in to Facebook unless I put them on the white list for Adblock Plus. On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Mikki McGee wrote: > Hi; > > Are cookies or other identifiers added, in Ubuntu? If so, where and how > does one locate them to identify and or delete them? > > > Bless All > > > Mikki > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 12:25:26 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:25:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics Message-ID: Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, tables, figures) from PDF files? Note that I am _not_ interested in extracting pages as images (I already know how to do that, and it doesn't separate embedded elements), only embedded elements. It seems like there should be a way to do this in Ghostscript, but I can't seem to track one down. It also occurs to me, given that PDF is an image-based format, that it may not be possible to separate embedded elements (they may get merged with relevant page info to form a single image/page without any metadata retained to guide later element separation). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 13:27:02 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:27:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Still haven't found any gs-related ways to do this, but it does look like I might be able to get the info via Apache's PDFBox API. I think it'll work, if I'm willing to soil my brain with Java. http://pdfbox.apache.org/apidocs/org/apache/pdfbox/pdmodel/PDResources.html#getImages() On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, tables, > figures) from PDF files? Note that I am _not_ interested in extracting > pages as images (I already know how to do that, and it doesn't separate > embedded elements), only embedded elements. It seems like there should be a > way to do this in Ghostscript, but I can't seem to track one down. > > It also occurs to me, given that PDF is an image-based format, that it may > not be possible to separate embedded elements (they may get merged with > relevant page info to form a single image/page without any metadata retained > to guide later element separation). > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akkana at shallowsky.com Sun Jul 10 13:52:13 2011 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 13:52:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110710205213.GA2073@shallowsky.com> Jeff Bragg writes: > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, tables, > figures) from PDF files? The pdftohtml program does this as part of its operation, at least for some PDFs. It doesn't work on all of them. Worth a try. ...Akkana From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Jul 10 14:13:23 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2011 14:13:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: <20110710205213.GA2073@shallowsky.com> References: <20110710205213.GA2073@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: Looks like it got most, but not all of them from the file I'm testing with. Much better than none. I'll still try to get PDFBox to do what I want, since I think it may more reliably extract them, but pdftohtml definitely does better than no images at all (which is what Apache Tika gives). On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: > Jeff Bragg writes: > > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, > tables, > > figures) from PDF files? > > The pdftohtml program does this as part of its operation, at least > for some PDFs. It doesn't work on all of them. Worth a try. > > ...Akkana > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cymraegish at gmail.com Mon Jul 11 18:03:03 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 18:03:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You can reverse load some pdf files into Scribus (desktop publishing s/w). On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, tables, > figures) from PDF files? Note that I am _not_ interested in extracting > pages as images (I already know how to do that, and it doesn't separate > embedded elements), only embedded elements. It seems like there should be a > way to do this in Ghostscript, but I can't seem to track one down. > > It also occurs to me, given that PDF is an image-based format, that it may > not be possible to separate embedded elements (they may get merged with > relevant page info to form a single image/page without any metadata retained > to guide later element separation). > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Jul 11 19:06:11 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2011 19:06:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement Message-ID: <4E1BAC13.7060101@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who prefer terminal CLI). Since it is extra I will give it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements for Linux powered computers of all configurations as well as useful articles to do with all aspects of GNU/Linux. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA later Bobbie Sellers From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Sun Jul 17 17:03:34 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:03:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] any interest in multiple disassembled Neo 1973s? Message-ID: <4E237856.9000501@gmail.com> Can't remember if I asked here already; if so, my apologies. Last call before they get scrapped -- Michael Shiloh KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Jul 18 15:59:47 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:59:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMRROW! Tu 2011-07-19 BALUG meeting Message-ID: <20110718155947.112725s507umwgsg@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG TOMRROW! Tu 2011-07-19 BALUG meeting Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-07-19 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2011-07-19 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a specific speaker/presentation lined up for this meeting, but that doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings. Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to announce or fully publicise the speaker (that's happened at least twice in the past five or so years). Got questions, answers, and/or opinions? We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to cover LINUX and related topic areas. Want to hear some interesting discussions on LINUX and other topics? Show up at the meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda if you wish. Want to help ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings? Help refer speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators. Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to be had. So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, July 19th, 2011 2011-07-19 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ CDs, etc.: Additional goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Mon Jul 18 18:50:20 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 18:50:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Travel downtown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I didn't really see anyone there... or I couldn't identify them as such... All the laptops I saw were XP or Mac... > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Bobbie Sellers > Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:06 PM > Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement > To: SF-LUG > > > ? ? ? ?SF-LUG meets ?on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM > at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. > All meeting times are nominal. > > ? ? ? ?Bring your problems and if no one in attendance > can solve a problem we know where to find more help. > > ? ? ? ?I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 > from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate > Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two > versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, > Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), > Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who > prefer terminal CLI). ?Since it is extra I will give > it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements > for Linux powered computers of all configurations as > well as useful articles to do with all aspects of > GNU/Linux. > > > ? Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the > South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. > (415) 251-9136 > ? ?If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary > buses west, they run often. > > ? ?Here's a link to a map. > > http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA > > > ? ? ? ?later > ? ? ? ?Bobbie Sellers > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From jim at systemateka.com Mon Jul 18 21:06:25 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:06:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Travel downtown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1311048385.1748.207.camel@jim-LAPTOP> we were by the window, about a half a dozen of us, bill and micki with their laptops spread out on the desk, bobbie, erik, geoff, and me nearby at the round table by the window. very sorry to have missed you. bobbie's almost always there (as am i); you can recognize her by the various linux magazines she spreads around. On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 18:50 -0700, Dan Murphy wrote: > I didn't really see anyone there... or I couldn't identify them as > such... All the laptops I saw were XP or Mac... > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Bobbie Sellers > > Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:06 PM > > Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement > > To: SF-LUG > > > > > > SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM > > at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. > > All meeting times are nominal. > > > > Bring your problems and if no one in attendance > > can solve a problem we know where to find more help. > > > > I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 > > from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate > > Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two > > versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, > > Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), > > Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who > > prefer terminal CLI). Since it is extra I will give > > it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements > > for Linux powered computers of all configurations as > > well as useful articles to do with all aspects of > > GNU/Linux. > > > > > > Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the > > South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. > > (415) 251-9136 > > If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary > > buses west, they run often. > > > > Here's a link to a map. > > > > http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA > > > > > > later > > Bobbie Sellers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Jul 18 21:13:10 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:13:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Travel downtown In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E250456.8090507@dslextreme.com> On 07/18/2011 06:50 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > I didn't really see anyone there... or I couldn't identify them as > such... All the laptops I saw were XP or Mac... Did not look around much as we had several machines and 6 people including myself. Mikki and her technical pal were working on an upgrade install, Eric started off showing off his new camera, Jim and Jeff were discussing stuff and I brought along several Linux -magazines and gave Jeff the spare copy mentioned below. Jeff was also advising Mikki about several matters including the use of "dd". We did occupy the North-Eastern corner of the cafe and some of the the members were sitting behind a large partition behind the piano. Well I guess I will have to get the giant penguin suit after all. ;^) I got there at 6:40 PM later due to previous appointment and the others were assembled and several of us left about 8 PM. later Bobbie >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Bobbie Sellers >> Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:06 PM >> Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement >> To: SF-LUG >> >> >> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM >> at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. >> All meeting times are nominal. >> >> Bring your problems and if no one in attendance >> can solve a problem we know where to find more help. >> >> I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 >> from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate >> Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two >> versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, >> Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), >> Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who >> prefer terminal CLI). Since it is extra I will give >> it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements >> for Linux powered computers of all configurations as >> well as useful articles to do with all aspects of >> GNU/Linux. >> >> >> Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the >> South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. >> (415) 251-9136 >> If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary >> buses west, they run often. >> >> Here's a link to a map. >> >> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA >> >> >> later >> Bobbie Sellers From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 12:52:24 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (mmdmurphy at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:52:24 +0000 Subject: [sf-lug] Travel downtown In-Reply-To: <4E250456.8090507@dslextreme.com> References: <4E250456.8090507@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <69492639-1311105127-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1900905379-@b3.c22.bise6.blackberry> I left after a cup of coffee and asking the person working there if she knew anything about a linux users group meeting. I think she mis understood what I said. I think she thought I said to look at me like I was from Mars - which she did very well. sent on a BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bobbie Sellers Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:13:10 To: Dan Murphy; SF-LUG Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Travel downtown On 07/18/2011 06:50 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > I didn't really see anyone there... or I couldn't identify them as > such... All the laptops I saw were XP or Mac... Did not look around much as we had several machines and 6 people including myself. Mikki and her technical pal were working on an upgrade install, Eric started off showing off his new camera, Jim and Jeff were discussing stuff and I brought along several Linux -magazines and gave Jeff the spare copy mentioned below. Jeff was also advising Mikki about several matters including the use of "dd". We did occupy the North-Eastern corner of the cafe and some of the the members were sitting behind a large partition behind the piano. Well I guess I will have to get the giant penguin suit after all. ;^) I got there at 6:40 PM later due to previous appointment and the others were assembled and several of us left about 8 PM. later Bobbie >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Bobbie Sellers >> Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:06 PM >> Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement >> To: SF-LUG >> >> >> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM >> at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. >> All meeting times are nominal. >> >> Bring your problems and if no one in attendance >> can solve a problem we know where to find more help. >> >> I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 >> from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate >> Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two >> versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, >> Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), >> Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who >> prefer terminal CLI). Since it is extra I will give >> it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements >> for Linux powered computers of all configurations as >> well as useful articles to do with all aspects of >> GNU/Linux. >> >> >> Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the >> South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. >> (415) 251-9136 >> If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary >> buses west, they run often. >> >> Here's a link to a map. >> >> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA >> >> >> later >> Bobbie Sellers From jim at systemateka.com Tue Jul 19 12:56:26 2011 From: jim at systemateka.com (jim) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:56:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Travel downtown In-Reply-To: <69492639-1311105127-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1900905379-@b3.c22.bise6.blackberry> References: <4E250456.8090507@dslextreme.com> <69492639-1311105127-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1900905379-@b3.c22.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <1311105386.1821.14.camel@jim-LAPTOP> the woman working last night was new, or at least new to the Monday evening shift. we keep putting up signs and people keep taking them down. i hope you'll return--i'll buy you two cups of coffee (or whatever beverage you like). On Tue, 2011-07-19 at 19:52 +0000, mmdmurphy at gmail.com wrote: > I left after a cup of coffee and asking the person working there if she knew anything about a linux users group meeting. > I think she mis understood what I said. I think she thought I said to look at me like I was from Mars - which she did very well. > sent on a BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobbie Sellers > Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:13:10 > To: Dan Murphy; SF-LUG > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Travel downtown > > On 07/18/2011 06:50 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > > I didn't really see anyone there... or I couldn't identify them as > > such... All the laptops I saw were XP or Mac... > > Did not look around much as we had several > machines and 6 people including myself. > Mikki and her technical pal were working > on an upgrade install, Eric started off showing > off his new camera, Jim and Jeff were discussing > stuff and I brought along several Linux -magazines > and gave Jeff the spare copy mentioned below. > Jeff was also advising Mikki about several > matters including the use of "dd". > We did occupy the North-Eastern corner of > the cafe and some of the the members > were sitting behind a large partition > behind the piano. > > Well I guess I will have to get the giant > penguin suit after all. ;^) > > I got there at 6:40 PM later due to previous > appointment and the others were assembled > and several of us left about 8 PM. > > later > Bobbie > > >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Bobbie Sellers > >> Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 7:06 PM > >> Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Monday 18 July 2011 meeting announcement > >> To: SF-LUG > >> > >> > >> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM > >> at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. > >> All meeting times are nominal. > >> > >> Bring your problems and if no one in attendance > >> can solve a problem we know where to find more help. > >> > >> I have an extra copy of Linux Pro Magazine issue 127 > >> from June 2011 which has a DVD with the socalled Ultimate > >> Distro Toolbox with Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon with two > >> versions one with Enlightenment and the other with LXDE, > >> Puppy Linux, IPFire(for making old PC do firewall duty), > >> Parted Magic, and Zenwalk Core(favorite for users who > >> prefer terminal CLI). Since it is extra I will give > >> it away at the meeting and someone can enjoy advertisements > >> for Linux powered computers of all configurations as > >> well as useful articles to do with all aspects of > >> GNU/Linux. > >> > >> > >> Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the > >> South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. > >> (415) 251-9136 > >> If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary > >> buses west, they run often. > >> > >> Here's a link to a map. > >> > >> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA > >> > >> > >> later > >> Bobbie Sellers > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From grantbow at partimus.org Tue Jul 19 18:06:43 2011 From: grantbow at partimus.org (Grant Bowman) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:06:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is forwarded from the Humbolt LUG. Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "John Hauser" Date: Jul 18, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: [linux] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist To: "HumLUG" any of you who've attended recent monthly meetings have heard me blather on about the Khan Academy and it's founder Sal Khan. http://www.khanacademy.org now he's turning his focus to Computer Science and has produced a series of videos about learning python and some simple computer science topics. if you're interested in learning python at your own pace, check out the Computer Science playlist: http://www.khanacademy.org/#computer-science From voyager640 at gmail.com Tue Jul 19 18:14:28 2011 From: voyager640 at gmail.com (James Sheldon) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 18:14:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Khaaaaaan! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54 On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Grant Bowman wrote: > This is forwarded from the Humbolt LUG. > > Grant > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "John Hauser" > Date: Jul 18, 2011 11:25 AM > Subject: [linux] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist > To: "HumLUG" > > any of you who've attended recent monthly meetings have heard me > blather on about the Khan Academy and it's founder Sal Khan. > http://www.khanacademy.org > > now he's turning his focus to Computer Science and has produced a > series of videos about learning python and some simple computer > science topics. > > if you're interested in learning python at your own pace, check out > the Computer Science playlist: > http://www.khanacademy.org/#computer-science > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @ james sheldon @ http://www.jamessheldon.com @ "those who fail to reread @ are obliged to read the same story everywhere" @ -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970) @ voyager640 at gmail.com @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ From grantbow at partimus.org Thu Jul 21 00:33:14 2011 From: grantbow at partimus.org (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:33:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A different Khan, of course. Here is the TED video describing the project. I would be curious to hear back from anyone trying to learn Python with the Khan online materials. Bay Piggies might be interested as well. http://www.ted.com/talks/salman_khan_let_s_use_video_to_reinvent_education.html Grant On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, James Sheldon wrote: > Khaaaaaan! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54 > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Grant Bowman wrote: >> This is forwarded from the Humbolt LUG. >> >> Grant >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "John Hauser" >> Date: Jul 18, 2011 11:25 AM >> Subject: [linux] Khan Academy starts a Computer Science playlist >> To: "HumLUG" >> >> any of you who've attended recent monthly meetings have heard me >> blather on about the Khan Academy and it's founder Sal Khan. >> http://www.khanacademy.org >> >> now he's turning his focus to Computer Science and has produced a >> series of videos about learning python and some simple computer >> science topics. >> >> if you're interested in learning python at your own pace, check out >> the Computer Science playlist: >> http://www.khanacademy.org/#computer-science From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun Jul 24 15:56:32 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 15:56:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Unusual request, a friend's son is couch surfing Message-ID: hi, Does anyone have a couch where the son of a friend of mine can crash? I just heard about this issue a minute ago. I know this is unusual. Thanks either way. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sun Jul 24 21:06:06 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 21:06:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Article on reasons to chose Slackware Linux Message-ID: <4E2CEBAE.1020600@dslextreme.com> I find this very interesting and some other folks might as well. later bliss From b79net at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 13:26:58 2011 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 13:26:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110730202658.GA358@s70206.gridserver.com> * Jeff Bragg [110710 17:47]: > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, > tables, figures) from PDF files? Haven't tried it myself, but poppler-utils might be worth looking at. >From the Debian package description: PDF utilities (based on Poppler) ... command line utilities for getting information of PDF documents ... * pdfimages -- image extractor Homepage: http://poppler.freedesktop.org/ John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 14:01:22 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 14:01:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PDF embedded graphics In-Reply-To: <20110730202658.GA358@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20110730202658.GA358@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: Wow, somehow I had missed that particular tool (I'd used others in the poppler set), and it works pretty well, at least in that it seems to have gotten all the images. Some of them unexpectedly came out upside down and/or inverted (as in showing up as negatives), but from what I've read they could actually be goofed up in some way in the pdf file and still possibly end up being rendered correctly by compliant viewers. At any rate, I can probably fix the images if all they are is goofed up in simple ways. It may not be suitable for my long-term purposes, but it will suit my immediate ones quite well. Thanks much for the heads-up. On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 1:26 PM, John Magolske wrote: > * Jeff Bragg [110710 17:47]: > > Anyone know anything about extracting _embedded_ graphics (charts, > > tables, figures) from PDF files? > > Haven't tried it myself, but poppler-utils might be worth looking at. > From the Debian package description: > > PDF utilities (based on Poppler) ... command line utilities for > getting information of PDF documents ... > * pdfimages -- image extractor > Homepage: http://poppler.freedesktop.org/ > > John > > -- > John Magolske > http://B79.net/contact > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Tue Aug 2 15:20:40 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:20:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting next Sunday Message-ID: <4E387838.80208@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM which next will be on August 7. 2011 at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Aug 3 20:25:41 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:25:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Computer work this Sunday @ KIPP school 10 to 5 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, The school year is starting again in a big way, and we have teachers who need GNU-Linux computers! If you can come to the KIPP school this Sunday 8/7/11, you will get free pizza and drinks! Pls come to the back of the school @ O'Farrell and Pierce as the school is undergoing heavy construction. Pls call me @ 415.351.1300 when you arrive so that I can get you into the building! We will probably have lunch @ about 12:30 or so. Please bring blank CDs, screw drivers, needle nose pliers, cat 5 cables, hubs, switches, and surge protectors if you have them. We are going to be installing Linux workstations in classrooms. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at ubuntu.com Thu Aug 4 01:55:34 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 01:55:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs Message-ID: We had a good discussion at noisebridge.net last night about the choice of home ISP, specifically who to use instead of AT&T. Sonic.net seems to have had the most vocal support. We also briefly discussed that wifi capability (access points or APs) can be added to any Internet connection with some minimal hardware and know how. I recommend hardware that runs Openwrt.org if possible. The list of supported devices is http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start including (but not limited to) the good, old (non-n) WRT54GL. There are a lot more devices to choose from now. Regards, Grant From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 11:07:08 2011 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 11:07:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> Sonic.net is incredibly community friendly. I'm sure if we invited them to speak they'd be delighted, and it will give us an opportunity to express to them the appreciation that I, for one, feel for their unwavering support of Linux. On 08/04/2011 01:55 AM, Grant Bowman wrote: > We had a good discussion at noisebridge.net last night about the > choice of home ISP, specifically who to use instead of AT&T. Sonic.net > seems to have had the most vocal support. > > We also briefly discussed that wifi capability (access points or APs) > can be added to any Internet connection with some minimal hardware and > know how. I recommend hardware that runs Openwrt.org if possible. The > list of supported devices is http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start > including (but not limited to) the good, old (non-n) WRT54GL. There > are a lot more devices to choose from now. > > Regards, > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Michael Shiloh KA6RCQ www.teachmetomake.com teachmetomake.wordpress.com Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make From femtoghoti at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 14:59:36 2011 From: femtoghoti at gmail.com (Femtoghoti) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 14:59:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs In-Reply-To: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> References: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> Message-ID: As a sonic.net customer, their support is solid and they are very knowledgeable about what they ... and what you are trying to do as well. Being Lunix friendly they don't look at you like you have a third eye if you let them know what you are doing. thumbs up here E On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > Sonic.net is incredibly community friendly. I'm sure if we invited them to > speak they'd be delighted, and it will give us an opportunity to express to > them the appreciation that I, for one, feel for their unwavering support of > Linux. > > > On 08/04/2011 01:55 AM, Grant Bowman wrote: > >> We had a good discussion at noisebridge.net last night about the >> choice of home ISP, specifically who to use instead of AT&T. Sonic.net >> seems to have had the most vocal support. >> >> We also briefly discussed that wifi capability (access points or APs) >> can be added to any Internet connection with some minimal hardware and >> know how. I recommend hardware that runs Openwrt.org if possible. The >> list of supported devices is http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/**start >> including (but not limited to) the good, old (non-n) WRT54GL. There >> are a lot more devices to choose from now. >> >> Regards, >> >> Grant >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> > -- > Michael Shiloh > KA6RCQ > www.teachmetomake.com > teachmetomake.wordpress.com > Interested in classes? Join http://groups.google.com/** > group/teach-me-to-make > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- "A careful man tries to dodge the bullets, while a happy man takes a walk." - Mark Oliver Everett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 15:17:45 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 15:17:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs In-Reply-To: References: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> Message-ID: You got the URL wrong, isn't sonic http://www.sonicdrivein.com/ On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Femtoghoti wrote: > As a sonic.net customer, their support is solid and they are > very?knowledgeable about what they ... and what you are trying to do as > well. ?Being Lunix friendly they don't look at you like you have a third eye > if you let them know what you are doing. > thumbs up here > E > > On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> >> Sonic.net is incredibly community friendly. I'm sure if we invited them to >> speak they'd be delighted, and it will give us an opportunity to express to >> them the appreciation that I, for one, feel for their unwavering support of >> Linux. >> >> On 08/04/2011 01:55 AM, Grant Bowman wrote: >>> >>> We had a good discussion at noisebridge.net last night about the >>> choice of home ISP, specifically who to use instead of AT&T. Sonic.net >>> seems to have had the most vocal support. >>> >>> We also briefly discussed that wifi capability (access points or APs) >>> can be added to any Internet connection with some minimal hardware and >>> know how. I recommend hardware that runs Openwrt.org if possible. The >>> list of supported devices is http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start >>> including (but not limited to) the good, old (non-n) WRT54GL. There >>> are a lot more devices to choose from now. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Grant >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >> >> -- >> Michael Shiloh >> KA6RCQ >> www.teachmetomake.com >> teachmetomake.wordpress.com >> Interested in classes? Join >> http://groups.google.com/group/teach-me-to-make >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > -- > "A careful man tries to dodge the bullets, while a happy man takes a walk." > - Mark Oliver Everett > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From grantbow at ubuntu.com Thu Aug 4 16:13:24 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:13:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Speakers for balug.org Message-ID: If anyone knows who at Sonic might be interested in speaking to balug.org or other speakers please give them the following URL and ask them to email balug-speaker-coordinators at balug.org. www.balug.org/speaker-presenter_information_and_resources.txt Thanks, Grant On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > Sonic.net is incredibly community friendly. I'm sure if we invited them to > speak they'd be delighted, and it will give us an opportunity to express to > them the appreciation that I, for one, feel for their unwavering support of > Linux. > > On 08/04/2011 01:55 AM, Grant Bowman wrote: >> We had a good discussion at noisebridge.net last night about the >> choice of home ISP, specifically who to use instead of AT&T. Sonic.net >> seems to have had the most vocal support. >> >> We also briefly discussed that wifi capability (access points or APs) >> can be added to any Internet connection with some minimal hardware and >> know how. I recommend hardware that runs Openwrt.org if possible. The >> list of supported devices is http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start >> including (but not limited to) the good, old (non-n) WRT54GL. There >> are a lot more devices to choose from now. From nbs at sonic.net Fri Aug 5 13:36:17 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 13:36:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs In-Reply-To: References: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20110805203617.GB15963@sonic.net> On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 03:17:45PM -0700, Dan Murphy wrote: > You got the URL wrong, isn't sonic http://www.sonicdrivein.com/ Heh, I saw that in Google Maps the other day. (Sonic the ISP, at their old HQ in Santa Rosa, with the Sonic restaurant website's URL. ;^) ) I've been a Sonic customer since 1998, even when I had to get DSL from PacBell (UGH!) or a local Davis ISP (much better!). Now I get DSL thru Sonic, via an AT&T land-line account. Sonic now offers "Fusion", which includes land-line phone service, if I understand it correctly. Not out here in Davis, though, so we're still stuck with AT&T. Here's a little article about them that was published this month: http://www.northbaybiz.com/General_Articles/General_Articles/Sonic_Boom.php gives some fun history. (Sonoma Interconnect (now Sonic) started out of the CEO's mother's house back in 1994.) The other day I saw someone on Twitter (re-tweeted by the CEO :) ) who was blessing them for having a "silence" (no music) mode when you're on hold with their tech support line. :^D It's the little things! -bill! From blake.haggerty at RACKSPACE.COM Fri Aug 5 13:47:42 2011 From: blake.haggerty at RACKSPACE.COM (Blake Haggerty) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 20:47:42 +0000 Subject: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs In-Reply-To: <20110805203617.GB15963@sonic.net> References: <4E3ADFCC.9060603@gmail.com> <20110805203617.GB15963@sonic.net> Message-ID: Sonic is amazing... They get it and know how to deliver on their promise. Highly recommend! -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Bill Kendrick Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 1:36 PM To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Sonic.net + APs On Thu, Aug 04, 2011 at 03:17:45PM -0700, Dan Murphy wrote: > You got the URL wrong, isn't sonic http://www.sonicdrivein.com/ Heh, I saw that in Google Maps the other day. (Sonic the ISP, at their old HQ in Santa Rosa, with the Sonic restaurant website's URL. ;^) ) I've been a Sonic customer since 1998, even when I had to get DSL from PacBell (UGH!) or a local Davis ISP (much better!). Now I get DSL thru Sonic, via an AT&T land-line account. Sonic now offers "Fusion", which includes land-line phone service, if I understand it correctly. Not out here in Davis, though, so we're still stuck with AT&T. Here's a little article about them that was published this month: http://www.northbaybiz.com/General_Articles/General_Articles/Sonic_Boom.php gives some fun history. (Sonoma Interconnect (now Sonic) started out of the CEO's mother's house back in 1994.) The other day I saw someone on Twitter (re-tweeted by the CEO :) ) who was blessing them for having a "silence" (no music) mode when you're on hold with their tech support line. :^D It's the little things! -bill! _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ This email may include confidential information. If you received it in error, please delete it. From einfeldt at gmail.com Fri Aug 5 14:02:10 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 14:02:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Free pizza and Linux computers in school this Sunday! Message-ID: Hi, The school year is starting again in a big way, and we have teachers who need GNU-Linux computers! If you can come to the KIPP school this Sunday 8/7/11, you will get free pizza and drinks! Pls come to the back of the school @ O'Farrell and Pierce as the school is undergoing heavy construction. Pls call me @ 415.351.1300 when you arrive so that I can get you into the building! We will probably have lunch @ about 12:30 or so. Please bring blank CDs, screw drivers, needle nose pliers, cat 5 cables, hubs, switches, and surge protectors if you have them. Please also bring blank CDs and Ubuntu 10.04 disks if you have them. Thanks! We will be installing standalone Linux machines in classrooms. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at ubuntu.com Fri Aug 5 23:25:19 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 23:25:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Open-Mesh.com Models Message-ID: I have received an MR500 http://www.open-mesh.com/index.php/enterprise-mesh/mr500-mesh-router.html and OM1P http://www.open-mesh.com/index.php/professional/professional-mini-router-us-plugs.html that I will be testing for use in a couple of possible projects. If anyone else has tried these please let me know. I know the 510pen.org folks are using these devices in the Berkeley/Oakland area. Regards, Grant From grantbow at ubuntu.com Sat Aug 6 14:09:57 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:09:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Open-Mesh.com Models In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For comparison, open-mesh.com MR500 costs $99 one time with unlimited use of their cloud controller service. Meraki MR-16 costs $450 + annual license of $150 / year for access to their cloud controller service. http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Enterprise-Networking/Meraki-MR16-Raises-WiFi-Bar-While-Lowering-Price-255271/ Grant On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Grant Bowman wrote: > I have received an MR500 > http://www.open-mesh.com/index.php/enterprise-mesh/mr500-mesh-router.html > and OM1P http://www.open-mesh.com/index.php/professional/professional-mini-router-us-plugs.html > that I will be testing for use in a couple of possible projects. If > anyone else has tried these please let me know. I know the 510pen.org > folks are using these devices in the Berkeley/Oakland area. > > Regards, > > Grant > From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 14:33:11 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 14:33:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] More about the math package sage I mentioned Message-ID: Jim, I had mentioned sage at the Cafe Enchante meeting -- here's a little more info. The Linux Journal July 2011 has a Sage article in it. sage is available directly from www.sagemath.org, both sources and on-line. I think I downloaded the sources and recompiled, and that took a few hours (if I am remembering the right one!). Binary packages are available, and some on line links and a standalone cd too (I haven't tested them). Sage has a web interface too, on port 8000 which I have not tested either. Claims to help manage and create spreadsheets. For a nice 3d graph (first example from their 3d on line section), from the command line: sage x, y = var('x y') sage: W = plot3d(sin(pi*((x)^2+(y)^2))/2,(x,-1,1),(y,-1,1), frame=False, color='purple', opacity=0.8) sage: S = sphere((0,0,0),size=0.3, color='red', aspect_ratio=[1,1,1]) sage: show(W + S, figsize=8) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun Aug 7 18:27:15 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 18:27:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Free pizza and Linux computers in school this Sunday! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, We did some really great work today, and had fun doing it! We installed 14 GNU-Linux work stations in 3 classrooms at the public charter KIPP San Francisco Bay Academy at Geary and Scott Streets. Thanks very much to Eric S., Joe Puig, Grant Bowman, Michael Paoli, Elizabeth Krumbach, and Michelle Mastin, for doing a really fast, great job with these installs! The teachers are gonna love these machines! Here are a few pics from Elizabeth Krumbach and Michelle Mastin: http://yfrog.com/kfx4riwyj http://flic.kr/p/aaQJGx http://flic.kr/p/aaTWdr The 7th grade social studies teacher is going to use the machines for student video editing. The 6th grade social studies teacher is going to use the machines for student research. The 5th grade math teacher is going to use the machines for student math practice. This is a really meaningful contribution to public schools that otherwise would not have the money to get computers into these teachers' classrooms! Thanks everyone for the great work that you did today! If anyone is interested in helping Partimus.org put computers into schools, we are excited to get your help. If you are too busy, but have a few dollars that you can spare, contributions are also welcome! Donating can be as easy as buying some Ubuntu-themed earrings for someone you love: http://partimus.org/donate.php There will be plenty more events like this one, if you didn't get a chance to come today! On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > > The school year is starting again in a big way, and we have teachers who > need GNU-Linux computers! If you can come to the KIPP school this Sunday > 8/7/11, you will get free pizza and drinks! Pls come to the back of the > school @ O'Farrell and Pierce as the school is undergoing heavy > construction. Pls call me @ 415.351.1300 when you arrive so that I can > get you into the building! We will probably have lunch @ about 12:30 or > so. Please bring blank CDs, screw drivers, needle nose pliers, cat 5 > cables, hubs, switches, and surge protectors if you have them. Please also > bring blank CDs and Ubuntu 10.04 disks if you have them. Thanks! > > We will be installing standalone Linux machines in classrooms. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nbs at sonic.net Mon Aug 8 14:34:44 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 14:34:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, August 15: "FOSS Gaming, a community dedicated to fun for everyone!" Message-ID: <201108082134.p78LYiIA015269@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting this month: Monday August 15, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "FOSS Gaming, a community dedicated to fun for everyone!" Francisco Athens, Lips of Suna Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) includes entertainment software, particularly games! Adding artwork to FOSS games is a great way to help the community. There are many games started by ambitious programmers also need art and music content. FOSS games allow gaming artists to make their work much more meaningful to the population. Proprietary games are fun but they can have some important limitations: * Porting games by willing communities is often not allowed, discouraged or unlawful. * Adding content to proprietary games sometimes comes with restrictions that disallow the freedom to reuse ones own work. * The tools available to add content to proprietary games are often expensive or restrictive in the way mentioned above. * Content made for proprietary games may die with the game. * The tools used to make new content for an old game may become obsolete, unsupported or simply unavailable Artists and musicians who want to contribute content may be challenged by the options for licensing their work in FOSS games. What strategies are available if they wish to make and keep their artwork freely available and/or protect their own rights? They must consider how their licensing choice may affect the game they wish to contribute to. For example, will an LGPL licensed game be able to accept GPL licensed art? About the Speaker: Lips of Suna is an LGPL-licensed multiplayer RPG game that accepts CC (Creative Commons) and LGPL licensed artwork. Much of the artwork in the game is provided by the Open Game Art repository. Francisco Athens works at UC Davis as an AV Technician and is one of the artists working on Lips Of Suna and enjoys making game art in his rather limited free time. This meeting will be held at: Yolo County Public Library, Davis Branch (Mary L. Stephens Branch) Blanchard community meeting room 315 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 18:34:27 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 18:34:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] remote camera Message-ID: Jim on amazon, search for "web camera" and the first one is the one I got for $6.95. It's down to $5.03, and qualifies for the free super saving shipping ($25 or more). The usb standard does limit to 5m high speed devices, with hubs, extensible to 30m, but there's the standard, and there's real life -- my experience with rs232 cables (~200') indicates exceeding the 50' standard for those cables was no problem (for low speed serial connections). A more expensive camera like the foscam 8918 (~$100) would allow ethernet or wireless but needs a 5v power line. I see usb extension cables for $9 /33' but only max two daisychained. the usb/cat5 converter goes up to 150' for $30 + the cat5 cable. Wireless looks like a reasonable alternative, maybe you'd need a special antenna though. Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Aug 8 21:27:44 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 21:27:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets a week from today Message-ID: <4E40B740.7020908@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM next Monday August 15 2011 at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. The last few meetings have been small but the technically inclined have always found matters of interest to engage them through. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Or for those West of Twin Peaks others buses might be more suitable to get to 25th and Geary. You can always check bus routes with MUNI via Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From WritingSolutions2010 at rvandyke.com Tue Aug 9 10:04:23 2011 From: WritingSolutions2010 at rvandyke.com (Riley VanDyke) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:04:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Desktop computer and associated stuff: Looking to donate to a good cause Message-ID: Hi: Having moved entirely to the use of laptop computers, I now have a very usable desktop computer and associated stuff that I want to donate to the Linux cause. The system is NOT an old "clunker": It's a 1 GHz P4 with 2 GB of RAM, has two tray-swappable disk drives, a 17" square flat-screen monitor, a wireless keyboard, and an HP Deskjet printer. I'm also throwing in a 160 MB (yeah, MB not GB) desktop USB drive and a grab-box of vestigial cables and stuff. This was originally a W2K system so I've re-formatted the drives and installed a clean baseline instance of W2K. Presumably someone will have a Linux install disc handy (I don't at the moment) so that the system can be re-loaded with Linux. (I actually ran this system as a W2K / Linux dual boot for three-plus year?) Finally, note that I do not drive. So someone will need to pick up the ENTIRE package (four boxes ? two mid-sized, two small) from the Outer Sunset (19th and Lincoln area) and get it where it needs to go. I'll be checking email only intermittently the next couple of days, so please don't become impatient if I don't respond right away. Cheers & hope this helps, Riley From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 13:22:38 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 13:22:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Desktop computer and associated stuff: Looking to donate to a good cause In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Aug 9, 2011 10:06 AM, "Riley VanDyke" wrote: > > Having moved entirely to the use of laptop computers, I now have a > very usable desktop computer and associated stuff that I want to > donate to the Linux cause. > > The system is NOT an old "clunker": It's a 1 GHz P4 with 2 GB of RAM, > has two tray-swappable disk drives, a 17" square flat-screen monitor, > a wireless keyboard, and an HP Deskjet printer. I'm also throwing in > a 160 MB (yeah, MB not GB) desktop USB drive and a grab-box of > vestigial cables and stuff. We would love to get this donation for our Partimus schools project! Partimus is a recognized 501(c)(3). This system would probably be used for video editing by a 7th and 8th grade teacher. Thanks either way for considering my reques -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 11:37:46 2011 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:37:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [OLPC-SF] Saturday: August meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This meeting is for anyone seriously interested in the intersection of computers (running Fedora Linux / sugarlabs.org UI) and education (working with foreign governments) as seen through the eyes of people on the ground deploying these computers, please join us. Every child in Uruguay has an OLPC laptop. Our group directly and indirectly supports smaller deployments in about ten other countries. Please join our mail list if you would like to keep up to join the discussion. Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Aaron Borden Date: Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 10:00 PM Subject: [OLPC-SF] Saturday: August meeting To: OLPC SF Hello, It's been nearly 4 weeks since our last meeting in July, which means this Saturday is our August OLPC-SF meeting! We'll be discussing our annual Community Summit as well as a few project updates (Post with any additional agenda items). Want to help with the Summit planning and organization? Join us at the meeting! Won't be able to make the meeting? Ping the list! There are still plenty of tasks without an "owner" so let us know if you want to help. Where: Downtown SFSU Campus, Room 553, 835 Market Street, San Francisco When: Saturday, August 13th, 2011 10AM - 2PM See you there! -Aaron _______________________________________________ OLPC-SF mailing list OLPC-SF at lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sf From grantbow at ubuntu.com Thu Aug 11 00:46:06 2011 From: grantbow at ubuntu.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 00:46:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations Message-ID: One of the many topics discussed tonight at the Ubuntu Hour [1] and Noisebridge Linux Discussion [2] was a domain that was registered but expired. the ICANN reports a 30 day "Redemption Grace Period" where you must renew with your current registrar. Late fees are allowed. GoDaddy.com chages $80 though seems willing to negotiate this extortion fee down a bit when queried on the phone. I try to use nearlyfreespeech.net for some of my registrations and I have heard some in the SF-LUG use joker.com. I used to work for NameSecure.com when they were very small though they were purchased by Network Solutions and are no longer what they once were. Where do you prefer to register your domain names? Grant [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours [2] https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/LinuxDiscussion [3] http://www.icann.org/en/transfers/dnholder-faq-03nov04.htm From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Aug 11 01:46:25 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 01:46:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110811084625.GW26131@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at ubuntu.com): > One of the many topics discussed tonight at the Ubuntu Hour [1] and > Noisebridge Linux Discussion [2] was a domain that was registered but > expired. the ICANN reports a 30 day "Redemption Grace Period" where > you must renew with your current registrar. Late fees are allowed. Hi, Grant! I can answer that. As I say in the footnote to http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html (which you might want to also read): In the first 40 days, the domain can still be renewed by just paying the normal renewal. Some registrars will accept renewal money from anyone; others won't. Next 30 days ('redemption period'), additional fees are required. Last 5 days ('locked'), domain is in deletion phase. 75 days out, it lapses back to unregistered and can be grabbed. For more, see Mike Davidson's explanation (http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/archive/2005/03/how-to-snatch-an-expiring-domain). > GoDaddy.com chages $80 though seems willing to negotiate this > extortion fee down a bit when queried on the phone. They have the latitude to insist on pretty extortionate fees during the 'redemption period'. GoDaddy built its business through bottom-dollar basic rates. That has to be made up somehow. I gather that the domain owner who spoke up at Noisebridge found that out. In fairness, GoDaddy is one of a number of registrars whose business is founded on doing everything in extremely massive volumes of business with a high degree of automation, thus keeping administrative costs very low and making money even though the profit margin on most domains is razor-thin. However, I suspect that domains are also, in effect, a foot in the door to sell more profitable services to customers. Now, you're going to want to have a discussion about choice of registrar. I've been in many of those, over the years. Many people hold the view that the only applicable criterion is price. They need look no further than GoDaddy. For everyone else: http://web.archive.org/web/20101205032348/http://nodaddy.com/ (Wayback link because it looks like that site is offline.) > I try to use nearlyfreespeech.net for some of my registrations... They look OK -- and they, too, learned the hard way about GoDaddy. ;-> That is, their initial domain operation, a decade ago, was as a GoDaddy (subsidiary Wild West Domains) reseller. A few years later, they decided against that, and set themselves up as an accredited registrar directly. > ...and I have heard some in the SF-LUG use joker.com. Both joker.com and gandi.net are in general excellent. One advantage shared by both is that they're largely outside the reach of grasping USA-based intelligence agencies and corporations: joker.com is in Germany and gandi.net is in France. My best advice is: Start with deciding what's important to you. If price is everything and you don't mind an impersonal firm that's not set up to do customer handholding and has a record of throwing customers under the bus upon receiving even totally absurd demand letters (http://www.articlesbase.com/business-articles/godaddy-did-to-fyodor-vaskovich-1507734.html), than use GoDaddy. If you want stable, sane, competent firms somewhat shielded from spook and corporate interests, and are willing to pay a bit over bottom dollar, consider joker.com and gandi.net (along with, no doubt, many others). If you understand how to administer a domain, consequently don't need your hand held, and want a basically competent setup at reasonable but not rock-bottom prices, sometimes you can find a Tucows OpenSRS reseller open to taking your business. (One of my domains, linuxmafia.com, is at one such reseller, a friend of a friend in Texas, but he's not accepting new customers. He likes me because I keep my domains registered many years away from registration, hence never hit him with help-I'm-about-to-expire customer panic drama, and am always nice and low-maintenance for him.) Many people do _not_ want a la carte domain registration, but rather actually want the value-added upsells and bundled services you get with some registrars, e.g., having them do you authoritative DNS nameservice for your domains, offering you virtual Web hosting, SMTP/IMAP/webmail e-mail services, and all that stuff. Anyway, start by knowing what you're looking to buy. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Aug 11 02:07:47 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 02:07:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations In-Reply-To: <20110811084625.GW26131@linuxmafia.com> References: <20110811084625.GW26131@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110811090747.GA11251@linuxmafia.com> Also: > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at ubuntu.com): > > > One of the many topics discussed tonight at the Ubuntu Hour [1] and > > Noisebridge Linux Discussion [2] was a domain that was registered but > > expired. the ICANN reports a 30 day "Redemption Grace Period" where > > you must renew with your current registrar. Late fees are allowed. > > Hi, Grant! I can answer that. > > As I say in the footnote to > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/preventing-expiration.html The _main_ point of that article was to give readers a tool (the Perl script called 'domain-check', runable as a cronjob, that helps you avoid the oops-my-domain-expired-and-I-never-noticed situation in the first place -- and also help you help your friends, and help volunteer groups and companies you like, by automatically watching over their domains for them. As shown in the downloadable example files, it's dead-simple to run domain-check as a weekly cronjob on any 'Nix server that runs Perl. Even Macintoy OS X, I wouldn't doubt (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1999775/cron-jobs-under-mac-os-10-6-snow-leopard). Every Sunday, domain-check sends me a report about which of a list of about a hundred domains owned by friends (etc.) are nearing expiration -- so I can make sure they don't fall through the cracks. Among other things, this saved SVLUG's ass a few years ago: That was back when Heather Stern was nominal custodian of SVLUG's domains, and, against my very strong advice to the contrary, she'd set all four of the domain contacts (Registrant, Billing, Administrative, and Technical) for svlug.org to have alias mailboxes inside her starshine.org domain -- whose mail aliases then got muffed up, such that _nobody_ got the various 'Your domain's getting close to expiration' warnings from joker.com. Because I was seeing domain-check's _separate_ warnings, I was able to step in one day before expiration with my own credit card and prevent that expiration. Ever since I wrote the above-cited article, back in 2007, I've been suggesting that others join me in using domain-check to help prevent our own and others' domains from accidentaly expiring, any more. I've been puzzled to never hear even one other person mention joining me in doing that. From jim at well.com Thu Aug 11 09:06:06 2011 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 09:06:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1313078766.1831.4.camel@jim-LAPTOP> I started out using network solutions but have changed over to using joker. I prefer the model that the registrar of my domain names is __NOT__ the same enterprise as that which hosts my stuff (and mostly I host my stuff, but I've seen a lot of people who are trapped into a hosting service because they can't move their domain names to another registrar--e.g. the person who set things up is no longer available and the registrar refuses to work with anyone not currently named in their account records). On Thu, 2011-08-11 at 00:46 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote: > One of the many topics discussed tonight at the Ubuntu Hour [1] and > Noisebridge Linux Discussion [2] was a domain that was registered but > expired. the ICANN reports a 30 day "Redemption Grace Period" where > you must renew with your current registrar. Late fees are allowed. > GoDaddy.com chages $80 though seems willing to negotiate this > extortion fee down a bit when queried on the phone. > > I try to use nearlyfreespeech.net for some of my registrations and I > have heard some in the SF-LUG use joker.com. I used to work for > NameSecure.com when they were very small though they were purchased by > Network Solutions and are no longer what they once were. > > Where do you prefer to register your domain names? > > Grant > > > [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/UbuntuHours > [2] https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/LinuxDiscussion > [3] http://www.icann.org/en/transfers/dnholder-faq-03nov04.htm > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Aug 11 10:55:33 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:55:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations In-Reply-To: <20110811084625.GW26131@linuxmafia.com> References: <20110811084625.GW26131@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110811175533.GX26131@linuxmafia.com> It was really late last night, when I posted. One of my sentences was a bit garbled because my fingers typed a word different from what my brain tried to tell it to type: > If you understand how to administer a domain, consequently don't need > your hand held, and want a basically competent setup at reasonable but > not rock-bottom prices, sometimes you can find a Tucows OpenSRS reseller > open to taking your business. (One of my domains, linuxmafia.com, is at > one such reseller, a friend of a friend in Texas, but he's not accepting > new customers. He likes me because I keep my domains registered many > years away from registration, hence never hit him with ^^^^^^^^^^^^ 'expiration' (not registration) > help-I'm-about-to-expire customer panic drama, and am always nice and > low-maintenance for him.) From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Aug 11 11:47:43 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 11:47:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Domain Registrations In-Reply-To: <1313078766.1831.4.camel@jim-LAPTOP> References: <1313078766.1831.4.camel@jim-LAPTOP> Message-ID: <20110811184743.GA26131@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com): > I started out using network solutions but have > changed over to using joker. I prefer the model > that the registrar of my domain names is __NOT__ > the same enterprise as that which hosts my stuff > (and mostly I host my stuff, but I've seen a lot > of people who are trapped into a hosting service > because they can't move their domain names to > another registrar--e.g. the person who set things > up is no longer available and the registrar > refuses to work with anyone not currently named > in their account records). The classic way that happens is that Bob registers a domain for Alice, with the _intended_ result of it being Alice's. Unfortunately, Bob doesn't pay close attention, and ends up with his own name in the Registrant field. Years later, Alice attempts to assert control over the domain in some way (i.e., repoint it to use other nameservers), and finds to her disappointment that it's considered to be not her domain after all, but rather Bob's. Because that's what the Registrant is - the domain owner, who has ultimate say over the domain as long as it continues to be registered. In the scenario Jim talks about, what probably happens is that a customer signs up with a hosting service and trusts to the hosting service to register the domain for the customer, build and host DNS, and set up HTTP virtual hosting. Some years later, the customer attempts to leave and finds out that he/she wasn't specified as Registrant of the domain he/she 'bought' (i.e., paid money for), and instead the hosting provider itself is named in that field. The hosting provider is therefore regarded for regulatory and legal purposes as the domain's owner, and the customer finds himself/herself unable to move to elsewhere (except by registering a different domain name and starting over). Seen in that light, the problem isn't using your hosting company as your registrar, but rather permitting that registrar to carry out the steps of registering your domain on your behalf because you're too lazy to do it yourself. Take the ten minutes required to register your own domain; all it takes is a Web browser and a credit cdar. Choice of registrar isn't the problem; it's permitting someone else to do it 'for you' and naming himself/herself as owner in place of you. From mszaller at trigeocorp.com Mon Aug 15 13:12:06 2011 From: mszaller at trigeocorp.com (Mark Zaller) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:12:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Wildfire mapping project Message-ID: I'm pursuing a project to automatically map wildfires, and am looking for people who could contribute to this. I volunteer as an Air Attack pilot over wildfires and have created an in cockpit Augmented Reality system that allows us to work at night and over smoke. It combines 3D visualization of GIS (Geographic Information System) data along with live Infrared. I'd like to consider porting to Open Source/Linux and include auto-mapping of spotfires. Here is a proposal presentation about what NASA night fund: http://www.slideshare.net/mszaller/wildfire-ir-and-mapping Please contact me if you have experience with Open Source (GRASS, OSGeo, GDAL, etc.) capabilities that could help. thanks, -Mark Zaller - www.AerialFireTech.org 260 King St, San Francisco, CA Linkedin Profile - Business Development, Product Management, Hi-tech Hardware & Software Team Leader -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Aug 15 19:25:14 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 19:25:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-08-16 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG "news" Message-ID: <20110815192514.33892ux5g1510iyo@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG TOMORROW! Tu 2011-08-16 BALUG meeting; & other BALUG "news" Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-08-16 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2011-08-16 BALUG meeting, at least presently we don't have a specific speaker/presentation lined up and confirmed for this meeting (but we may have one on a security topic, or possibly something else - if you're directly subscribed to our "announce" list: http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-announce-balug.org watch it and/or: http://www.balug.org/#Meetings-upcoming for announcements and potentially late-breaking updates. ). In any case, speaker/presentation or not, that doesn't prevent us from having interesting and exciting meetings. Sometimes we also manage to secure/confirm a speaker too late for us to announce or fully publicize the speaker (that's happened at least twice in the past five or so years). Got questions, answers, and/or opinions? We typically have some expert(s) and/or relative expert(s) present to cover LINUX and related topic areas. Want to hear some interesting discussions on LINUX and other topics? Show up at the meeting, and feel free to bring an agenda if you wish. Want to help ensure BALUG has speakers/presentations lined up for future meetings? Help refer speakers to us and/or volunteer to be one of the speaker coordinators. Good food, good people, and interesting conversations to be had. So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and meeting, and with sufficient attendance, they also help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, August 16th, 2011 2011-08-16 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ CDs, etc.: Additional goodies we'll have at the meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Picn*x 20 - The Linux 20th Anniversary Picnic 2011-08-27, Sunnyvale http://www.linuxpicnic.org/ ------------------------------ Want to volunteer to help out BALUG? (quite a variety of opportunities exist) Drop us a note at: balug-contact at balug.org Or come talk to us at a BALUG meeting. ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Fri Aug 26 19:17:54 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:17:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza and Triagefest Sunday 8/28/11 Message-ID: Hi, This Sunday, 8/28/11, we will be having a triage fest at the Creative Arts Charter School (CACS) from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 pm. The Creative Arts Charter School is located at the corner of Pierce and Turk Streets in San Francisco. Bring all the tools that you need to diagnose desktop computers. You might also want to bring copies of Ubuntu 10.04 if you have them. Also, bring a hungry belly, because we will have pizza and soft drinks for everyone who shows up! We will be testing machines in the CACS lab to make sure that they are working properly. If they are not working properly, we will be canabalizing them for other machines. Please call Christian Einfeldt at 415-351-1300 when you arrive at Turk and Pierce, and I will come out and get you. Getting into the school is tricky, so it is best to just call me from the corner of Pierce and Turk when you arrive. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 16:07:39 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:07:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Pizza and Triagefest Sunday 8/28/11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, We did some great stuff today. The Partimus.org volunteers installed RAM in 29 computers today. We also brought the server back on-line, which had been off-line and turned all summer, due to construction at the school. The server had one whole summer's worth of updates to pull down off of the Ubuntu repositories. Thanks tons to John Strazzarino, Harley Strazzarino, James Ouyang, and our server architect, James Howard, for a great day of bringing Linux to a public school, the Creative Arts Charter School! On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > > This Sunday, 8/28/11, we will be having a triage fest at the Creative Arts > Charter School (CACS) from 11:00 a.m. to 3:00 pm. The Creative Arts Charter > School is located at the corner of Pierce and Turk Streets in San Francisco. > Bring all the tools that you need to diagnose desktop computers. You might > also want to bring copies of Ubuntu 10.04 if you have them. Also, bring a > hungry belly, because we will have pizza and soft drinks for everyone who > shows up! > > We will be testing machines in the CACS lab to make sure that they are > working properly. If they are not working properly, we will be canabalizing > them for other machines. > > Please call Christian Einfeldt at 415-351-1300 when you arrive at Turk and > Pierce, and I will come out and get you. Getting into the school is tricky, > so it is best to just call me from the corner of Pierce and Turk when you > arrive. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Aug 29 10:24:13 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:24:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday September 4, 2011 Message-ID: <4E5BCB3D.8060100@dslextreme.com> Hello LUGgers, SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. When you get there look around, may have a Penguin on the table but *will* have Linux magazines on the table. Lately the meetings have been small which may reflect that the group is involved in other activities such as those Christian Einfeldt organizes and Noisebridge. People only have so much time and energy as I am too well aware. But our small meetings have, I believe, been useful and entertaining for the individuals in attendance. If you are unable to attend we won't think badly of you and if you can make to the next meeting on the third Monday then we will still be happy to see whoever has the time to spare. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. If you cannot get to the meetings tell us about any problem(s) you are experiencing via this e-mail list. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Other buses from the South-Western parts of San Francisco either connect to the 38 line or run a block away. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 10:46:12 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:46:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Sunday September 4, 2011 In-Reply-To: <4E5BCB3D.8060100@dslextreme.com> References: <4E5BCB3D.8060100@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: "When you get there look around, may have a Penguin on the table but *will* have Linux magazines on the table" THANKS, I will look for some sign that I am in the right place. On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > Hello LUGgers, > > ? ? ? ?SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from > 11 AM to 1 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. > All meeting times are nominal. ?When you get there look > around, may have a Penguin on the table but *will* have > Linux magazines on the table. > ? ? ? ?Lately the meetings have been small which > may reflect that the group is involved in other > activities such as those Christian Einfeldt organizes > and Noisebridge. ?People only have so much time > and energy as I am too well aware. ?But our small > meetings have, I believe, been useful and entertaining > for the individuals in attendance. > > ? ? ? ?If you are unable to attend we won't think > badly of you and if you can make to the next meeting > on the third Monday then we will still be happy to > see whoever has the time to spare. > > ? ? ? ?Bring your problems and if no one in attendance > can solve a problem we know where to find more help. > If you cannot get to the meetings tell us about > any problem(s) you are experiencing via this > e-mail list. > > > ? Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the > South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. > (415) 251-9136 > ? ?If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary > buses west, they run often. Other buses from the > South-Western parts of San Francisco either > connect to the 38 line or run a block away. > > ? ?Here's a link to a map. > > http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From b79net at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 20:06:54 2011 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:06:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive Message-ID: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> I have an OCZ USB 8GB Dual Channel Rally2 Pen Drive, and for some reason df seems to be telling me it has more than 8GB capacity: ~ % df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on [...] /dev/sdb1 15G 7.3G 6.7G 53% /media I'd like to determine with certainty whether this is an 8GB or 16GB drive. Someone suggested copying a file larger than 8GB to the drive and comparing the copied file to the original...maybe with CMP(1) or using checksums. I'm wondering if there might be another way, as I'd rather not erase everything currently on the drive. I'd also like to avoid adding more write cycles to its flash storage chip. TIA for any suggestions, John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Aug 29 20:13:32 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:13:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <20110830031332.GO19834@linuxmafia.com> Quoting John Magolske (b79net at gmail.com): > I'd like to determine with certainty whether this is an 8GB or 16GB > drive. Someone suggested copying a file larger than 8GB to the drive > and comparing the copied file to the original...maybe with CMP(1) or > using checksums. I'm wondering if there might be another way, as I'd > rather not erase everything currently on the drive. I'd also like to > avoid adding more write cycles to its flash storage chip. Well... the only really logically conclusive way to determine the capacity of a mass-storage device is indeed to store data there, and see how much it holds. Short of that: 'dmesg | less' should show you quite a bit of what the kernel is probing about that USB device after the USB layer notices its attachment. Like this: [1805079.078028] usb 1-7: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 19 [1805079.192955] usb 1-7: New USB device found, idVendor=0781, idProduct=5151 [1805079.192961] usb 1-7: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 [1805079.192965] usb 1-7: Product: Cruzer Micro [1805079.192968] usb 1-7: Manufacturer: SanDisk Corporation [1805079.192971] usb 1-7: SerialNumber: 200411013209D0E19389 [1805079.193646] usb 1-7: selecting invalid altsetting 1 [1805079.194292] scsi10 : usb-storage 1-7:1.0 [1805080.194713] scsi 10:0:0:0: Direct-Access SanDisk Cruzer Micro 0.1 PQ: 0 ANSI: 2 [1805080.195735] sd 10:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0 [1805080.197322] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] 2001888 512-byte logical blocks: (1.02 GB/977 MiB) [1805080.197815] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off [1805080.197822] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 03 00 00 00 [1805080.197826] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [1805080.201193] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [1805080.202207] sdb: sdb1 [1805080.203445] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through [1805080.203453] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk [1805111.496701] FAT: utf8 is not a recommended IO charset for FAT filesystems, filesystem will be case sensitive! [1805111.497314] FAT: invalid media value (0x01) [1805111.497320] VFS: Can't find a valid FAT filesystem on dev sdb. [1805114.296751] FAT: utf8 is not a recommended IO charset for FAT filesystems, filesystem will be case sensitive! [1805455.531751] usb 1-7: USB disconnect, address 19 See that? Kernel believes this to be a 1 GB flash drive (and it's correct). From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 20:32:30 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 20:32:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 8:06 PM, John Magolske wrote: > I have an OCZ USB 8GB Dual Channel Rally2 Pen Drive, and for some > reason df seems to be telling me it has more than 8GB capacity: > > ~ % df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > [...] > /dev/sdb1 15G 7.3G 6.7G 53% /media > > I'd like to determine with certainty whether this is an 8GB or 16GB > drive. Someone suggested copying a file larger than 8GB to the drive > and comparing the copied file to the original...maybe with CMP(1) or > using checksums. I'm wondering if there might be another way, as I'd > rather not erase everything currently on the drive. I'd also like to > avoid adding more write cycles to its flash storage chip. > I've never worked with dual-channel USB, so I might be off-base here, but I'm wondering if it's confusing the USB driver. If dmesg doesn't yield anything enlightening, there's a way to indirectly test the drive's capacity (sort of). Rather than trying to fill up the drive, you could copy what's on it off into a directory on the same host, then find out how big the host believes that is. If it matches the 6.7GB expected, I would tend to assume you have a larger drive than you believed. If, on the other hand, it's about half of that, I would tend to believe the dual-channel is causing everything to be doubled, and the drive is 8GB. The really confusing result would be having ~6.7GB as expected, but only actually having ~1.3GB left (which I can't think of a way to discover other than trying to copy a file slightly bigger than that to it and see if it fails). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 21:06:00 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:06:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 8:06 PM, John Magolske wrote: > >> I have an OCZ USB 8GB Dual Channel Rally2 Pen Drive, and for some >> reason df seems to be telling me it has more than 8GB capacity: >> >> ~ % df -h >> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on >> [...] >> /dev/sdb1 15G 7.3G 6.7G 53% /media >> >> I'd like to determine with certainty whether this is an 8GB or 16GB >> drive. Someone suggested copying a file larger than 8GB to the drive >> and comparing the copied file to the original...maybe with CMP(1) or >> using checksums. I'm wondering if there might be another way, as I'd >> rather not erase everything currently on the drive. I'd also like to >> avoid adding more write cycles to its flash storage chip. >> > > > I've never worked with dual-channel USB, so I might be off-base here, but > I'm wondering if it's confusing the USB driver. If dmesg doesn't yield > anything enlightening, there's a way to indirectly test the drive's capacity > (sort of). Rather than trying to fill up the drive, you could copy what's > on it off into a directory on the same host, then find out how big the host > believes that is. If it matches the 6.7GB expected, I would tend to assume > you have a larger drive than you believed. If, on the other hand, it's > about half of that, I would tend to believe the dual-channel is causing > everything to be doubled, and the drive is 8GB. The really confusing result > would be having ~6.7GB as expected, but only actually having ~1.3GB left > (which I can't think of a way to discover other than trying to copy a file > slightly bigger than that to it and see if it fails). > Oops, used the wrong #'s there. Substitute 7.3GB for 6.7GB and 0.7GB for 1.3GB where relevant. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhigashi at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 14:58:54 2011 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 14:58:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 8:06 PM, John Magolske wrote: > I have an OCZ USB 8GB Dual Channel Rally2 Pen Drive, and for some > reason df seems to be telling me it has more than 8GB capacity: I'm wondering if you could use dd to copy the raw device to a image file on another disk, and see what the resulting file size is. This is a read operation for the flash chip, so you're not shortening the life cycle. Something like: dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/tmp/pendrive.img bs=4096 Mike From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Aug 30 15:06:36 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:06:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <20110830220636.GZ19834@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Mike Higashi (mhigashi at gmail.com): > I'm wondering if you could use dd to copy the raw device to a image file > on another disk, and see what the resulting file size is. This is a read > operation for the flash chip, so you're not shortening the life cycle. Make sure you remount with the 'ro' option before doing that. Otherwise, the problem is that any read operation of a FAT-formatted filesystem is _also_ a write operation. Because atime gets updated. (See: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6867?page=0,2 ) From nbs at sonic.net Tue Aug 30 17:02:24 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:02:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, September 19: "Full Scale Flight Simulators" [rescheduled from March 2011] Message-ID: <201108310002.p7V02O3N029558@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting this month: Monday September 19, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "Full Scale Flight Simulators" John Wojnaroski, Chief Engineer, LFS Technologies [Note: This presentation was rescheduled from March 2011] LFS Technologies has developed a suite of hardware, electronics, and software that has been integrated with open source projects such as FlightGear flight simulator, JSBSim flight dynamics model, and OpenSceneGraph. The preferred platform is a Linux-based PC with the real-time extensions provided by RTAI/Xenomai. Both hardware and software are designed to function as an integrated package that provides turn-key operations out of the box while retaining the ability to customize and tailor hardware and software to customer requirements. A 737NG flightdeck simulator was delivered to NASA/Ames in 2008. LFS developed flight simulators include electro-mechanical devices that provide flight control force loading systems, autopilots, and auto-throttle control systems. One of LFS's goals is to provide a more flexible and dynamic environment for research organizations and an alternative simulation platform to Microsoft based systems. The software architecture employs object oriented design principles and C++. To that end several licensing options are available that allow the end user to replace LFS developed libraries and modules with in-house products that maximize software efficiencies and speed of execution by direct compilation and linking into an executable binary program. The architecture employs Linux-based IPCs such as shared memory and UDP network interfaces and task structures and organization that operate on single-CPU PCs and can just as easily run on multi-core machines. About the Speaker: John Wojnaroski is the Chief Engineer with LFS Technologies. A member of AIAA, he has held research positions at CalTech/JPL and the Mitre Corporation. At Northrop he led the Avionics Department developing the software and graphic displays for the B-2 aircraft. He has over 3000 hours of flying experience in high performance fighter aircraft and holds a multi-engine commercial pilots license with an instrument rating as well as a BS in engineering and a MS in Astronautics from Purdue University. This meeting will be held at: Yolo County Public Library, Davis Branch (Mary L. Stephens Branch) Blanchard community meeting room 315 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From b79net at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 23:28:43 2011 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 23:28:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Trying to determine the actual size of a USB drive In-Reply-To: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20110830030654.GB11915@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <20110831062054.GA20253@s70206.gridserver.com> Hi all, thanks for the helpful suggestions. * Rick Moen [110829 21:37]: > [...] 'dmesg | less' should show you quite a bit of what the kernel > is probing about that USB device after the USB layer notices its > attachment. Like this: Ok, here's what comes up...seems to think it's 16GB: [371726.796299] usb 1-1: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 3 [371726.922376] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=13fe, idProduct=3100 [371726.922384] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3 [371726.922391] usb 1-1: Product: Rally2 [371726.922397] usb 1-1: Manufacturer: OCZ [371726.922402] usb 1-1: SerialNumber: 07980102B7EC11BB [371726.923318] scsi47 : usb-storage 1-1:1.0 [371727.946587] scsi 47:0:0:0: Direct-Access OCZ Rally2 PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS [371727.947066] sd 47:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg1 type 0 [371728.344430] sd 47:0:0:0: [sdb] 31309824 512-byte logical blocks: (16.0 GB/14.9 GiB) * Jeff Bragg [110829 21:37]: > [...] Rather than trying to fill up the drive, you could copy what's > on it off into a directory on the same host, then find out how big > the host believes that is. Good idea, here's what I found: % df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on [...] /dev/sdb1 15G 7.3G 6.7G 53% /fd/e1 % cp -a /media/* /tmp/rally2 % du -sh /tmp/rally2 7.2G /tmp/rally2 (7484764242 bytes) * Mike Higashi [110830 21:02]: > I'm wondering if you could use dd to copy the raw device to a image file > on another disk, and see what the resulting file size is. This is a read > operation for the flash chip, so you're not shortening the life cycle. Tried this too: % dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/tmp/rally2.img bs=4096 3912720+0 records in 3912720+0 records out 16026501120 bytes (16 GB) copied, 515.143 s, 31.1 MB/s dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/tmp/rally2.img bs=4096 2.78s user 64.72s system 13% cpu 8:35.24 total % ls -oh /tmp/rally2.img -rw-rw-r-- 1 jm 15G 2011-08-30 22:20 /tmp/rally2.img At this point I'm inclined to believe this drive really is an actual 16GB device. John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From ericwrasmussen at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 14:29:00 2011 From: ericwrasmussen at gmail.com (Eric Rasmussen) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:29:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter Message-ID: I have an Intel Centrino Advanced AGN 6250 and I'm running MINT 10. I can not figure out how to remove the wimax soft block. I'm also not getting any love from the Mint Forums regarding this. Every other instance of my problem that I've found involves a conflicting driver. In my case, I don't think this is the problem. Please review this postand give me some guidance. I'm trying to connect to my Clear account via Mint. Thank you in advance. ewr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Aug 31 15:05:25 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:05:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110831220525.GR30607@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Eric Rasmussen (ericwrasmussen at gmail.com): > I have an Intel Centrino Advanced AGN 6250 and I'm running MINT 10. I can > not figure out how to remove the wimax soft block. Wow, WiMax (IEEE 802.16e). Jeez, Eric, you're really jumping right onto the cutting edge. I've not yet even gotten my hands on any of the relevant hardware, let alone attempted to run the brand-new Linux support on it. However, a little reading reveals that the diagnostic means: Your i2400m-usb chip's activation is software blocked. (That is probably not news to you, but I'm just now reading about this subject.) Your problem really isn't Mint-specific -- and it's hardly surprising that you're getting nothing useful on Web forums, which in general are pretty hopeless for technical discussions. Try http://lists.linuxwimax.org/listinfo/wimax Just in case you haven't already attended to this detail: Make sure you've fetched the relevant Intel firmware 'blob' (image file) and put it into /lib/firmware. (I am reasonably sure you've already done this, based on your transcript.) From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Aug 31 23:40:36 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:40:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage Message-ID: <20110831234036.12664fuvwmbhwjs4@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 meeting, we're proud to present: Travis H on Encrypted Storage This is a talk covering the three types of encrypted storage technologies (application-level, filesystem, block device) in Linux (and BSD, unless we want to skip those slides). We will start off a little abstract, and end up very practical, with LUKS/dm-crypt and TrueCrypt, and end up with some important discussion about thumb drives and the limits of what we can achieve. Travis H is the founder of Bay Area Hacker's Association (BAHA)[1], a former member of Austin Hacker's Association (AHA), and has been employed doing security or cryptography for financial institutions, web client software, top 50 web sites, e-commerce hosting companies, and other organizations. He has been part of the largest security monitoring operation in the world, security consulting startups, helped design an intrusion detection system, and has taught code-making and breaking at Stanford. He also has written a book on security which is free online. He is a fan of the Ghost in the Shell franchise, and collects Matrix-inspired fashion accessories. 1. http://baha.bitrot.info/ See also a bit further below for some additional goodies we'll have at this meeting (CDs, etc.) So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and dining arrangements and such. We've also tweaked our "door prize" / giveaway practices a bit - so RSVPing and arriving sufficiently on time increases one's odds of winning door prize(s) and/or getting first or earlier pick of giveaway items. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 2011-09-20 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). Additional goodies we'll have at this meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From ericwrasmussen at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 13:23:27 2011 From: ericwrasmussen at gmail.com (Eric Rasmussen) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 13:23:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 68, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I subscribed to the list and gave them my new Ubuntu thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11209840#post11209840 As far as the driver install, it was included when I installed dist-upgrade. The drivers are there, just soft blocked. Unfortunately, I am starting to think that the guy helping doesn't really know what he's doing. If y'all could take a look at the thread and see if you see anything strange, I would really appreciate it. On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter (Eric Rasmussen) > 2. Re: Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter (Rick Moen) > 3. BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage (Michael Paoli) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:29:00 -0700 > From: Eric Rasmussen > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have an Intel Centrino Advanced AGN 6250 and I'm running MINT 10. I can > not figure out how to remove the wimax soft block. I'm also not getting > any > love from the Mint Forums regarding this. Every other instance of my > problem > that I've found involves a conflicting driver. In my case, I don't think > this is the problem. Please review this > postand give > me some guidance. I'm trying to connect to my Clear account via > Mint. Thank you in advance. > > ewr > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20110831/e23133ed/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:05:25 -0700 > From: Rick Moen > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter > Message-ID: <20110831220525.GR30607 at linuxmafia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Quoting Eric Rasmussen (ericwrasmussen at gmail.com): > > > I have an Intel Centrino Advanced AGN 6250 and I'm running MINT 10. I > can > > not figure out how to remove the wimax soft block. > > Wow, WiMax (IEEE 802.16e). Jeez, Eric, you're really jumping right onto > the cutting edge. I've not yet even gotten my hands on any of the > relevant hardware, let alone attempted to run the brand-new Linux > support on it. However, a little reading reveals that the diagnostic > means: Your i2400m-usb chip's activation is software blocked. (That is > probably not news to you, but I'm just now reading about this subject.) > > Your problem really isn't Mint-specific -- and it's hardly surprising > that you're getting nothing useful on Web forums, which in general are > pretty hopeless for technical discussions. Try > http://lists.linuxwimax.org/listinfo/wimax > > Just in case you haven't already attended to this detail: Make > sure you've fetched the relevant Intel firmware 'blob' (image file) and > put it into /lib/firmware. (I am reasonably sure you've already done > this, based on your transcript.) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:40:36 -0700 > From: "Michael Paoli" > To: SF-LUG > Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage > Message-ID: <20110831234036.12664fuvwmbhwjs4 at webmail.rawbw.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; > format="flowed" > > BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage > > Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting > Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 > > Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). > > For our Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 meeting, we're proud to present: > > Travis H on Encrypted Storage > > This is a talk covering the three types of encrypted storage > technologies (application-level, filesystem, block device) in Linux > (and BSD, unless we want to skip those slides). We will start off a > little abstract, and end up very practical, with LUKS/dm-crypt and > TrueCrypt, and end up with some important discussion about thumb drives > and the limits of what we can achieve. > > Travis H is the founder of Bay Area Hacker's Association (BAHA)[1], a > former member of Austin Hacker's Association (AHA), and has been > employed doing security or cryptography for financial institutions, web > client software, top 50 web sites, e-commerce hosting companies, and > other organizations. He has been part of the largest security > monitoring operation in the world, security consulting startups, helped > design an intrusion detection system, and has taught code-making and > breaking at Stanford. He also has written a book on security which is > free online. He is a fan of the Ghost in the Shell franchise, and > collects Matrix-inspired fashion accessories. > > 1. http://baha.bitrot.info/ > > See also a bit further below for some additional goodies we'll have at > this meeting (CDs, etc.) > > So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: > > rsvp at balug.org > > **Why RSVP??** > > Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the > Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and dining arrangements and such. > We've also tweaked our "door prize" / giveaway practices a bit - so > RSVPing and arriving sufficiently on time increases one's odds of > winning door prize(s) and/or getting first or earlier pick of giveaway > items. > > Meeting Details... > > 6:30pm > Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 2011-09-20 > > Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ > 731 Grant Ave. > San Francisco, CA 94108 > Easy PARKING: > Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: > http://www.sfpsg.com/ > > Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 > cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy > family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift > also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping > to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). > > Additional goodies we'll have at this meeting (at least the following): > > CDs, etc. - have a peek here: > http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc > We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have > "door prizes". > > ------------------------------ > > Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we > should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or > things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org > > ------------------------------ > > http://www.balug.org/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 68, Issue 1 > ************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 1 13:36:02 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 13:36:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 68, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110901203601.GH29654@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Eric Rasmussen (ericwrasmussen at gmail.com): > I subscribed to the list and gave them my new Ubuntu thread > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11209840#post11209840 Um... you joined a technical mailing list and then asked the mailing list membership to please consult an _Ubuntuforums Web-forum posting_, just to figure out what your problem is? From ashish.makani at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 15:33:04 2011 From: ashish.makani at gmail.com (ashish makani) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 15:33:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 (Oneiric Ocelot) Released. In-Reply-To: <1314912572.2786.17094.camel@veni> References: <1314912572.2786.17094.camel@veni> Message-ID: FYI Anybody having some glaring problems having tried 11.10 Beta 1 ? I am about to take the plunge & see if folks ran into some serious issues . Ubuntu FTW cheers ashish ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kate Stewart Date: Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 2:29 PM Subject: Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 (Oneiric Ocelot) Released. To: ubuntu-announce at lists.ubuntu.com Cc: ubuntu-devel-announce at lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-release at lists.ubuntu.com The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1. Codenamed "Oneiric Ocelot", 11.10 continues Ubuntu's proud tradition of integrating the latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality, easy-to-use Linux distribution. The team has been hard at work through this cycle, introducing new features and fixing bugs. This release introduces a new set images called Ubuntu Core. These include a minimal software and are can be used as the basis for customized Ubuntu distributions and products. The DVD images have been slimmed down to 1.5GB, retaining a complete set of language packs, for faster downloading and use on USB drives. With Ubuntu 11.10, we also welcome a new Ubuntu family member, Lubuntu! Lubuntu, together with Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Mythbuntu, and Ubuntu Studio also reached Beta 1 status today. Ubuntu Changes -------------- Some of the new features now available are: DVD images have been revised into extended desktop images with additional language support and a few extra applications, and thereby reduced to a more manageable size of around 1.5 GB. "Lenses" (formerly "Places") now integrate multiple sources and advanced filtering like ratings, range, categories. Thunderbird is included as default email client including menu and launcher integration. D?j? Dup is included as the default backup tool, making it easy to create backups and upload them to Ubuntu One. The new gwibber landed in Oneiric bringing improved performance and a new interface using the most recent GNOME technologies. GNOME got updated to current unstable version (3.1.5) on its way to GNOME 3.2 LightDM now uses the new Unity greeter by default. The indicators have been visually refreshed, including a refactoring of the session indicator and a new power indicator. The Ubuntu Software Center adds new "top rated" views to the main category page and all subcategory pages, it allows you to edit or delete your own reviews, and has had a significant speedup for standalone deb file installation. And we continue to improve the underlying infrastructure: Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 enables support for installing 32-bit library and application packages on 64-bit systems Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 has a new kernel based on v3.0.3. GNU toolchain has transitioned to be based off of gcc 4.6 for i386, amd64, and ARM omap3/omap4 architectures. Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/ for details. Ubuntu Server ------------- Ubuntu Server now includes Orchestra, a collection of the best free software services for provisioning, deploying, hosting, managing, and orchestrating enterprise data center infrastructure services. Ensemble is now available as well, it is a critical part of Ubuntu Server designed to handle service deployment and orchestration for both cloud and bare metal. OpenStack has been updated to the latest Diablo-4 development release. Ubuntu Core ----------- Ubuntu Core is a new minimal rootfs for use in the creation of custom images. Developers will be able to use Ubuntu Core as the basis for their application demonstrations, constrained environment deployments, device support packages, and other goals. Kubuntu ------- Kubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 sports the latest KDE software including KDE 4.7 Plasma Workspaces and Applications. Along with KDE 4.7, 11.10 also introduces the new KDEPIM suite, which includes the new Kmail 2. The new Amarok 2.4.3 music player has several improvements to make it easier to use. Kubuntu has switched to providing the Muon Software Center and Muon Package manager by default. Please see https://wiki.kubuntu.org/OneiricOcelot/Beta1/Kubuntu for details. Xubuntu ------- Xubuntu has changed several default applications: Pastebinit is now included to make it easier to share information. Leafpad is now the default text editor. gThumb has been added to assist with digital The onscreen keyboard, Onboard, is now included in the default Xubuntu menus, under Accessories. For those who require an onscreen keyboard, this will be much easier to access using only a mouse or touchpad. Edubuntu -------- Oneiric Ocelot Beta 1 is the first release of Edubuntu to feature a fully translated installer. LTSP Live has been re-written and is now fully translatable and network-manager aware. This beta also offers a refreshed look and feel with a new wallpaper and login screen. For more details on what has changed in Edubuntu 11.10, please refer to http://www.edubuntu.org . Mythbuntu --------- Mythbuntu Oneiric Ocelot Beta 1 has transitioned over to the quicker lightdm desktop manager and brings updated builds of MythTV. Please see http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/oneiric/beta for more details on the above products. About Ubuntu ------------ Ubuntu is a full-featured Linux distribution for desktops, laptops, and servers, with a fast and easy installation and regular releases. A tightly-integrated selection of excellent applications is included, and an incredible variety of add-on software is just a few clicks away. Professional technical support is available from Canonical Limited and hundreds of other companies around the world. For more information about support, visit http://www.ubuntu.com/support . If you would like to help shape Ubuntu, take a look at the list of ways you can participate at: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate . Your comments, bug reports, patches and suggestions really help us to improve this and future releases of Ubuntu. Instructions can be found at: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs . To Get Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 -------------------------- To upgrade to Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 from Ubuntu 11.04, follow these instructions: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OneiricUpgrades Or, download Ubuntu 11.10 Beta 1 images from a location near you: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/download (Ubuntu and Ubuntu Server) In addition, they can be found at the following links: http://releases.ubuntu.com/oneiric/ (Ubuntu, Ubuntu Server) http://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Ubuntu Cloud Images) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Ubuntu DVD, Alternates, pre-installed ARM Images) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/netboot/11.10/ (Ubuntu Netboot) http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/oneiric/ (Kubuntu) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Kubuntu DVD) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Xubuntu) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Edubuntu) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Ubuntu Studio) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/mythbuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Mythbuntu) http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/oneiric/beta-1/ (Lubuntu) The final version of Ubuntu 11.10 is expected to be released on October 13 2011. More Information ---------------- You can find out more about Ubuntu and about this beta release on our website, IRC channel and wiki. To sign up for future Ubuntu announcements, please subscribe to Ubuntu's very low volume announcement list at: http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce -- ubuntu-announce mailing list ubuntu-announce at lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Sep 1 19:30:24 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 19:30:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter In-Reply-To: <20110831220525.GR30607@linuxmafia.com> References: <20110831220525.GR30607@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20110902023024.GA4097@linuxmafia.com> I suggested to Eric Rasmussen: > Try http://lists.linuxwimax.org/listinfo/wimax Turns out, that was probably a bad suggestion, which I regret. I didn't know about the hitch, at the time: The archive of back posts at http://lists.linuxwimax.org/pipermail/wimax/ looked lively, but I unfortunately didn't look more closely. Here's an overview of one recent month's postings: http://lists.linuxwimax.org/pipermail/wimax/2011-May/date.html Notice that about half to two-thirds of the postings are spam? That's what happens in the past couple of decades on the Internet, if you create a mailing list and fail to restrict it to subscriber-only posting. Typically, when that happens, the mailing list is effectively killed and gets overwhelmed by spam, and eventually abandoned. Anyway, sorry about the bum lead. From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 20:00:18 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 20:00:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Eric, It might take more than a soft block on the wireless to prevent interference with the wimax. Try rmmod and blacklist iwlagn, and check that iwlagn is not in the lsmod output. Once you get the wimax working, you can figure out how to switch back and forth with wireless. Ken On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Eric Rasmussen wrote: > I have an Intel Centrino Advanced AGN 6250 and I'm running MINT 10. I can > not figure out how to remove the wimax soft block. I'm also not getting any > love from the Mint Forums regarding this. Every other instance of my problem > that I've found involves a conflicting driver. In my case, I don't think > this is the problem. Please review this postand give me some guidance. I'm trying to connect to my Clear account via > Mint. Thank you in advance. > > ewr > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alchaiken at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 23:56:02 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2011 23:56:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Having trouble activating my WiMax adapter Message-ID: Eric, without knowing anything in particular about WiMax or Mint, I'd have a look at rfkill: http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Documentation/rfkill Also, could there be an "airplane mode" button on the device that's pushed by default? (Don't mean to insult your intelligence; these are the means of investigation I'd start with.) -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "What you do for a living is not be creative, what you do is ship." -- Seth Godin, vimeo.com/5895898 From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Fri Sep 2 09:11:50 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:11:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] non-rocket propulsion Message-ID: <4E610046.1010105@dslextreme.com> Hi Team, Sounds like hype to me but perhaps the better educated can evaluate: bliss From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Sun Sep 4 13:39:36 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 13:39:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Interesting Python projects Message-ID: Some of the Python-oriented among you may appreciate the following links to projects (which I discussed briefly with Jim at today's meeting). GAIuS - General Artificial Intelligence using Software http://gaius-framework.sourceforge.net/ A framework for developing intelligent agents. Aside from being founded on what I consider to be a very good base (in terms of assumptions and approach, e.g. use of model-free methods), it abstracts away the need for the developer to even understand what it's doing under the covers. The idea is that a developer only needs to understand the domain in which they are working well enough to model it within the framework's api/context (which is basically understanding the range of inputs and desired outputs), not how artificial intelligence or machine learning work. Tornado web server http://www.tornadoweb.org/ http://blog.perplexedlabs.com/2010/07/01/pythons-tornado-has-swept-me-off-my-feet/ Employs a rather unique single-threaded model that is reputed to be really, really fast. Looks pretty simple to use. I haven't used it yet, but heard about it from someone who has used it in a production context, and had only good things to say for it (and the person in the second link seems pretty enthused as well). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Sun Sep 4 14:04:57 2011 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 14:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Interesting Python projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1315170297.92708.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> On "All Things Considered" the other day, they had a conversation between two "Intelligent" computers, I forget the day and segment. They were snarky and bitchy to each "other". They learned from humans quite well. ________________________________ From: Jeff Bragg To: sf-lug Sent: Sun, September 4, 2011 1:39:36 PM Subject: [sf-lug] Interesting Python projects Some of the Python-oriented among you may appreciate the following links to projects (which I discussed briefly with Jim at today's meeting). GAIuS - General Artificial Intelligence using Software http://gaius-framework.sourceforge.net/ A framework for developing intelligent agents. Aside from being founded on what I consider to be a very good base (in terms of assumptions and approach, e.g. use of model-free methods), it abstracts away the need for the developer to even understand what it's doing under the covers. The idea is that a developer only needs to understand the domain in which they are working well enough to model it within the framework's api/context (which is basically understanding the range of inputs and desired outputs), not how artificial intelligence or machine learning work. Tornado web server http://www.tornadoweb.org/ http://blog.perplexedlabs.com/2010/07/01/pythons-tornado-has-swept-me-off-my-feet/ Employs a rather unique single-threaded model that is reputed to be really, really fast. Looks pretty simple to use. I haven't used it yet, but heard about it from someone who has used it in a production context, and had only good things to say for it (and the person in the second link seems pretty enthused as well). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com Sun Sep 4 14:53:47 2011 From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2011 14:53:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Interesting Python projects In-Reply-To: <1315170297.92708.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1315170297.92708.YahooMailRC@web181719.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: C/Systems programmers should check out libevent, which provides a lower-level interface for event-driven network programming with similar advantages to Tornado: http://www.monkey.org/~provos/libevent/ There's also NodeJS, for javascript developers: http://nodejs.org/ Erlang and Haskell are also both are capable of fast, highly concurrent web/network services. Erlang is a language explicitly designed for such tasks. Haskell has some web servers like Snap and Yesod/Warp to check out. On Sun, Sep 4, 2011 at 2:04 PM, vincent polite wrote: > On "All Things Considered" the other day, they had a conversation between > two "Intelligent" computers, I forget the day and segment. They were snarky > and bitchy to each "other". They learned from humans quite well. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jeff Bragg > *To:* sf-lug > *Sent:* Sun, September 4, 2011 1:39:36 PM > *Subject:* [sf-lug] Interesting Python projects > > Some of the Python-oriented among you may appreciate the following links to > projects (which I discussed briefly with Jim at today's meeting). > > GAIuS - General Artificial Intelligence using Software > > http://gaius-framework.sourceforge.net/ > > A framework for developing intelligent agents. Aside from being founded on > what I consider to be a very good base (in terms of assumptions and > approach, e.g. use of model-free methods), it abstracts away the need for > the developer to even understand what it's doing under the covers. The idea > is that a developer only needs to understand the domain in which they are > working well enough to model it within the framework's api/context (which is > basically understanding the range of inputs and desired outputs), not how > artificial intelligence or machine learning work. > > Tornado web server > > http://www.tornadoweb.org/ > > http://blog.perplexedlabs.com/2010/07/01/pythons-tornado-has-swept-me-off-my-feet/ > > Employs a rather unique single-threaded model that is reputed to be really, > really fast. Looks pretty simple to use. I haven't used it yet, but heard > about it from someone who has used it in a production context, and had only > good things to say for it (and the person in the second link seems pretty > enthused as well). > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Sun Sep 4 16:03:47 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 16:03:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 201/09/04 Message-ID: <4E6403D3.4000203@dslextreme.com> Hi all, We had a nice little meeting. I managed to get my notebook computer to the meeting for the first time in several months. Resting the back you know. Ken Schaffer came in with a couple of Micro-SD card readers hidden inside a pair of silicone penguins from Bone collection. He waited until the devices were on sale to acquire and set them up. Each was charged up with Ubuntu 10.04 and proper selection from the boot menu and 3 quick hits on Enter/Return key allowed for a very quick boot into the 'buntu which lacked a lot over the full install but which went right online(as soon as the pass phrase for Cafe Enchante was entered) and allowed me to eventual access my home directory and check out some things. Jeff Bragg showed up then & we all got a surprise when Jim Stockford back early from the diggin's showed up. Jeff and he had quite a discussion of the things Jeff has mentioned in the mailing list. Eric came in finally and talked a lot about the frustration of dealing with tablet and pad developing requirements. High fees to get into the developer programs and confining development to the Windows platform were among his remarks. I had to pass along the news that Mandriva which forked at the end of the spring has consigned its Power- Pack distro that comes with the programs and the codecs which they use to deal with commercial DVDs to the trash heap of history. This may be a temporary expedient to avoid spending money on licensing fees. Personally this is a bummer for me as I have depended on it for several years. Mageia the other half of the fork got their first release out early but they don't seem to want to produce more than a minimalist distribution so far. bliss Bobbie Sellers From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 17:49:24 2011 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 17:49:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SD card Performance Message-ID: At the last meeting, Eric raised the question of performance of Kinston SD cards, and if the faster more expensive Ultra II(I?)s were worth it. Below are some read/write speeds I measured by copying cards with dd. The read speeds are copying to /dev/null, the write speeds are actually the time to copy a card, so really include a (much quicker) read of a Kingston 2G also. The Kingston card has half the write speed, but was half the cost of an Ultra II, while the read speeds were much closer. The advertised 15MB/sec of the Sandisk Ultra IIs were obviously the read speed! Ken Kingston 2G micro SD (not SDHC) No speed claims on package, 128k erase block size Boots 10.04 live media in 45 seconds (with the 3 quick returns to force a manual boot) Whole disk copy using dd with 128k block size Read speed = 13.3 MB/s Write speed = 2.2 MB/s Sandisk 2G SD UltraII Claimed 15MB/sec on card, 32k erase block size Boots 10.04 live media in 37 seconds (with the 3 quick returns to force a manual boot) Whole disk copy using dd with 128k block size Read speed = 16.3 MB/s Write speed = 4.7 MB/s Sandisk 2G SD UltraII Read Rate $ date Thu Sep 8 21:40:34 PDT 2011 $ sudo dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/null bs=128k date 15088+0 records in 15088+0 records out 1977614336 bytes (2.0 GB) copied, 121.084 s, 16.3 MB/s $ date Thu Sep 8 21:42:38 PDT 2011 Write Rate $ sudo dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/mmcblk0 bs=128k date 14864+0 records in 14864+0 records out 1948254208 bytes (1.9 GB) copied, 411.056 s, 4.7 MB/s $ date Wed Sep 7 17:12:36 PDT 2011 Kingston 2G micro SD Read Rate $ sudo dd if=/dev/sdc of=/dev/null bs=128k date 14864+0 records in 14864+0 records out 1948254208 bytes (1.9 GB) copied, 146.828 s, 13.3 MB/s $ date Thu Sep 8 21:25:34 PDT 2011 Write Rate varies from 2.1-2.2 MB/sec Card Specific Data Kingston 2G micro SD Card ./csd.py /sys/class/block/mmcblk0/device/csd Device size ===== 3715 Device size multiplier ===== 7 write block size ===== 1024 write protect gp size ===== 1 erase sector size ===== 128 write speed factor ===== 4 data transfer rate ===== 25MHz read access time 1 =RAW= 46 Max Rd Blk Len ===== 1024 Erase block size is 131072 bytes. Sandisk Ultra II SD Card Device size ===== 3771 Device size multiplier ===== 7 write block size ===== 1024 write protect gp size ===== 128 erase sector size ===== 32 write speed factor ===== 16 data transfer rate ===== 25MHz read access time 1 ===== 1.5ms Max Rd Blk Len ===== 1024 Erase block size is 32768 bytes. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alchaiken at gmail.com Sat Sep 10 22:38:51 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 22:38:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SD card Performance Message-ID: Ken and others, I don't know what your use case for SD cards is, but if you want to put Linux file systems on them, have a look at Arnd Bergmann's authoritative remarks and encyclopedic set of measurements: https://lwn.net/Articles/428584/ (Probably you want to replace "https" with "http" since I am using "HTTPS Everywhere.") -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "What you do for a living is not be creative, what you do is ship." -- Seth Godin, vimeo.com/5895898 From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Sep 12 11:41:02 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:41:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 Message-ID: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we do know where to find more help. As usual I will drag along the latest magazine(s) from the news stand. I have heard by the way at the last meeting that Linux Journal may only be available by online subscription. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA Thanks for your attention and I hope to see some new folks at the meeting along with some I haven't seen since we left the Java Cat coffee shop. Bobbie Sellers From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Sep 12 11:58:09 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 11:58:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 In-Reply-To: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> References: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <20110912185809.GU8377@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com): > I have heard by the way at the last meeting that Linux Journal may > only be available by online subscription. Final print (paper) issue was August 2011, issue #208. From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed Sep 14 09:26:15 2011 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 09:26:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom day 2011 at SF State University Message-ID: Software Freedom Day is upon us. We will be celebrating on September 15, 2011. We host the event on Thursday instead of Saturday because we have very little foot traffic on weekends. The wiki page is up at http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2011/USA/CA/SanFrancisco/SanFranciscoStateUniversity We'll be there with a table of info and CDs from 10AM to 2PM. Its an open event, so all are invited to drop by. cheers, Sameer -- Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Professor, Information Systems San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://olpcsf.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Sep 19 13:38:51 2011 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:38:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage Message-ID: <20110919133851.16873zb87uz9h1s0@webmail.rawbw.com> REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2011-09-20: Travis H on Encrypted Storage REMINDER: TOMORROW: Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) meeting Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2011-09-20 meeting, we're proud to present: Travis H on Encrypted Storage This is a talk covering the three types of encrypted storage technologies (application-level, filesystem, block device) in Linux (and BSD, unless we want to skip those slides). We will start off a little abstract, and end up very practical, with LUKS/dm-crypt and TrueCrypt, and end up with some important discussion about thumb drives and the limits of what we can achieve. Travis H is the founder of Bay Area Hacker's Association (BAHA)[1], a former member of Austin Hacker's Association (AHA), and has been employed doing security or cryptography for financial institutions, web client software, top 50 web sites, e-commerce hosting companies, and other organizations. He has been part of the largest security monitoring operation in the world, security consulting startups, helped design an intrusion detection system, and has taught code-making and breaking at Stanford. He also has written a book on security which is free online. He is a fan of the Ghost in the Shell franchise, and collects Matrix-inspired fashion accessories. 1. http://baha.bitrot.info/ See also a bit further below for some additional goodies we'll have at this meeting (CDs, etc.) So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and dining arrangements and such. We've also tweaked our "door prize" / giveaway practices a bit - so RSVPing and arriving sufficiently on time increases one's odds of winning door prize(s) and/or getting first or earlier pick of giveaway items. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, September 20th, 2011 2011-09-20 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner - joining us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). Additional goodies we'll have at this meeting (at least the following): CDs, etc. - have a peek here: http://www.wiki.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=balug:cds_and_images_etc We do also have some additional give-away items, and may have "door prizes". ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 18:35:22 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 In-Reply-To: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> References: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: Ok, so, I don't get it. Is it more like a hang out, or a more traditional meeting? On 9/12/11, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM > at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. > All meeting times are nominal. > > Bring your problems and if no one in attendance > can solve a problem we do know where to find more help. > > As usual I will drag along the latest magazine(s) > from the news stand. I have heard by the way at the last > meeting that Linux Journal may only be available by online > subscription. > > Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the > South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. > (415) 251-9136 > If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary > buses west, they run often. > > Here's a link to a map. > > http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA > > > Thanks for your attention and I hope > to see some new folks at the meeting along with > some I haven't seen since we left the Java Cat > coffee shop. > > Bobbie Sellers > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Sep 19 19:05:10 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 19:05:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 In-Reply-To: References: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <20110920020510.GA19270@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Dan Murphy (mmdmurphy at gmail.com): > Ok, so, I don't get it. Is it more like a hang out, or a more > traditional meeting? Hang-out, with Linux. And good coffee, pastries, and sandwiches. From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Sep 19 20:18:49 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:18:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 In-Reply-To: References: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <4E780619.3050902@dslextreme.com> On 09/19/2011 06:35 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > Ok, so, I don't get it. Is it more like a hang out, or a more > traditional meeting? Very unstructured. Today only myself and 2 other members showed up. I had the Linux Pro magazine out on the top of the green chest using it as a table with my notebook setup on top of the chest as well. Jim Stockford showed up and before 7 PM Eric showed up. Since no one was asking why we had the penguins there I thought we were alone. Bobbie Sellers > > On 9/12/11, Bobbie Sellers wrote: >> SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM >> at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. >> All meeting times are nominal. >> >> Bring your problems and if no one in attendance >> can solve a problem we do know where to find more help. >> >> As usual I will drag along the latest magazine(s) >> from the news stand. I have heard by the way at the last >> meeting that Linux Journal may only be available by online >> subscription. >> >> Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the >> South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. >> (415) 251-9136 >> If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary >> buses west, they run often. >> >> Here's a link to a map. >> >> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA >> >> >> Thanks for your attention and I hope >> to see some new folks at the meeting along with >> some I haven't seen since we left the Java Cat >> coffee shop. >> >> Bobbie Sellers >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> From jstrazza at yahoo.com Mon Sep 19 20:30:45 2011 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 20:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 In-Reply-To: <4E780619.3050902@dslextreme.com> References: <4E6E523E.1020909@dslextreme.com> <4E780619.3050902@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <1316489445.62432.YahooMailNeo@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You need to come to the meeting!? It is free form and often quite entertaining.? Plus, I get away from the wife for a couple hours on a Sunday morning! (oops, did I really say that?) ? As a bonus, 'I' will be at the meeting handing out $50 bills (they're blue with the monopoly guy on them!) ? See you October 2nd. ? John ? From: Bobbie Sellers To: Dan Murphy ; SF-LUG Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting 19 September 2011 On 09/19/2011 06:35 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > Ok, so, I don't get it. Is it more like a hang out, or a more > traditional meeting? Very unstructured. ? ? Today only myself and 2 other members showed up. ? ? I had the Linux Pro magazine out on the top of the green chest using it as a table with my notebook setup on top of the chest as well. ? ? Jim Stockford showed up and before 7 PM Eric showed up. ? ? Since no one was asking why we had the penguins there I thought we were alone. ? ? Bobbie Sellers > > On 9/12/11, Bobbie Sellers? wrote: >> ??? SF-LUG meets on the Third Monday from 6-8 PM >> at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. >> All meeting times are nominal. >> >> ??? Bring your problems and if no one in attendance >> can solve a problem we do know where to find more help. >> >> ??? As usual I will drag along the latest magazine(s) >> from the news stand.? I have heard by the way at the last >> meeting that Linux Journal may only be available by online >> subscription. >> >>? ? ? Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the >> South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. >> (415) 251-9136 >>? ? ? If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary >> buses west, they run often. >> >>? ? ? Here's a link to a map. >> >> http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA >> >> >> ??? Thanks for your attention and I hope >> to see some new folks at the meeting along with >> some I haven't seen since we left the Java Cat >> coffee shop. >> >> ??? Bobbie Sellers >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Thu Sep 22 12:22:07 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:22:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... Message-ID: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> Hi LUGs, "Matthew Garrett, a Red Hat engineer, gets the credit for spotting Microsoft?s latest anti-Linux move. In a blog posting, Garrett explains that Windows 8 logo guidelines require that systems have Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) secure boot enabled. This, in turn, would block Linux, or any other operating system, from booting on it." and at To get more on UEFI a later Bobbie Sellers From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 12:38:27 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:38:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: Incentive enough for me to NOT upgrade, if this proves to be the case. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > Hi LUGs, > "Matthew Garrett, a Red Hat engineer, gets the > credit for spotting Microsoft?s latest anti-Linux move. In a blog posting, > Garrett explains that Windows 8 logo guidelines require that systems have > Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) > secure boot enabled. This, in turn, would block Linux, or any other > operating system, from booting on it." > > > > and at > > > > To get more on UEFI a > > > later > Bobbie Sellers > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 12:57:05 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:57:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or only virtualized). On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Dan Murphy wrote: > Incentive enough for me to NOT upgrade, if this proves to be the case. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Bobbie Sellers > wrote: > > Hi LUGs, > > "Matthew Garrett, a Red Hat engineer, gets the > > credit for spotting Microsoft?s latest anti-Linux move. In a blog > posting, > > Garrett explains that Windows 8 logo guidelines require that systems have > > Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI) > > secure boot enabled. This, in turn, would block Linux, or any other > > operating system, from booting on it." > > > > < > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tries-to-block-linux-off-windows-8-pcs/9572 > > > > > > and at > > > > < > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/will-windows-8-block-users-from-dual-booting-linux-microsoft-wont-say/10772?tag=content;siu-container > > > > > > To get more on UEFI a > > > > > > later > > Bobbie Sellers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darose at darose.net Thu Sep 22 14:00:02 2011 From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:00:02 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or only > virtualized). Which actually brings up another point: wouldn't this change make it impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? DR From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 15:01:20 2011 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:01:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> Message-ID: Good question, to which I have no good answer. My suspicion is it will depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing emulation the the expected firmware). I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests to squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to competing OSes. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch wrote: > On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > >> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >> only >> virtualized). >> > > Which actually brings up another point: wouldn't this change make it > impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? > > DR > > > ______________________________**_________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/**listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 22:47:03 2011 From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Wladyslaw Zbikowski) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:47:03 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> Message-ID: My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order to sell any Windows boxes: Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft operating systems. http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a box with a "Windows 8" sticker. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Good question, to which I have no good answer. ?My suspicion is it will > depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing emulation > the the expected firmware). ?I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests to > squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to > competing OSes. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch > wrote: >> >> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >>> >>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >>> only >>> virtualized). >> >> Which actually brings up another point: ?wouldn't this change make it >> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? >> >> DR >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From nbs at sonic.net Fri Sep 23 16:36:22 2011 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:36:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, October 17: "Hacking Space Exploration and Science" Message-ID: <201109232336.p8NNaMin032116@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding the following meeting: Monday October 17, 2011 7:00pm - 9:00pm Presentation: "Hacking Space Exploration and Science" Ariel Waldman, interaction designer and founder, Spacehack.org This will be a fairly informal/personal talk about what it means to hack space exploration and science, why it's important, the motivations behind it, and what it means for the future of science. Spacehack.org is a directory of ways to participate in space exploration, interact + connect with the space community and encourage citizen science. Its conception was influenced by the NASA Authorization Act of 2008. The mission of Science Hack Day is to get excited and make things with science! A Hack Day is a 48-hour-all-night event that brings together designers, developers, scientists and other geeks in the same physical space for a brief but intense period of collaboration, hacking, and building 'cool stuff.' About the Speaker: Ariel Waldman is the creator of Science Hack Day SF and Spacehack.org. She also is an interaction designer and Research Affiliate at the Institute For The Future. Previously, she worked at NASA's CoLab program whose mission was to connect communities inside and outside NASA to collaborate. This meeting will be held at: Yolo County Public Library, Davis Branch (Mary L. Stephens Branch) Blanchard community meeting room 315 East 14th Street Davis, California 95616 For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/library/ ------------ About LUGOD: ------------ The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sun Sep 25 14:18:28 2011 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> Message-ID: <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The question then becomes: Will there be any non sticker-ed boxes to buy? ? a_kleider at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Wladyslaw Zbikowski To: Jeff Bragg Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order to sell any Windows boxes: Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft operating systems. http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a box with a "Windows 8" sticker. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > Good question, to which I have no good answer. ?My suspicion is it will > depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing emulation > the the expected firmware). ?I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests to > squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to > competing OSes. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch > wrote: >> >> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >>> >>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >>> only >>> virtualized). >> >> Which actually brings up another point: ?wouldn't this change make it >> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? >> >> DR >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun Sep 25 14:45:21 2011 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 14:45:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, there are several vendors that sell machines without Microsoft software on them, most notably, Zareason, which is right over in Berkeley. They are a family owned business who derive all (ALL!) of their income from selling Linux machines. Let's help get the word out for them! On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: > The question then becomes: Will there be any non sticker-ed boxes to buy? > > a_kleider at yahoo.com > ------------------------------ > *From:* Wladyslaw Zbikowski > *To:* Jeff Bragg > *Cc:* sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:47 PM > *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines > with UEFI... > > My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it > has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an > official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same > kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to > install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order > to sell any Windows boxes: > > Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per > processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would > prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft > operating systems. > > http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm > > The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; > they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a > box with a "Windows 8" sticker. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg > wrote: > > Good question, to which I have no good answer. My suspicion is it will > > depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing > emulation > > the the expected firmware). I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests > to > > squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to > > competing OSes. > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch > > wrote: > >> > >> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > >>> > >>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or > >>> only > >>> virtualized). > >> > >> Which actually brings up another point: wouldn't this change make it > >> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? > >> > >> DR > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cymraegish at gmail.com Sun Sep 25 18:33:34 2011 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:33:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Computer store on Howard St sells no OS boxes with a credit. Zareason pricy On Sunday, September 25, 2011, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > there are several vendors that sell machines without Microsoft software on them, most notably, Zareason, which is right over in Berkeley. They are a family owned business who derive all (ALL!) of their income from selling Linux machines. Let's help get the word out for them! > > On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: > > The question then becomes: Will there be any non sticker-ed boxes to buy? > > a_kleider at yahoo.com > ________________________________ > From: Wladyslaw Zbikowski > To: Jeff Bragg > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:47 PM > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... > > My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it > has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an > official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same > kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to > install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order > to sell any Windows boxes: > > Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per > processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would > prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft > operating systems. > > http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm > > The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; > they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a > box with a "Windows 8" sticker. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >> Good question, to which I have no good answer. My suspicion is it will >> depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing emulation >> the the expected firmware). I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests to >> squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to >> competing OSes. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch >> wrote: >>> >>> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >>>> >>>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >>>> only >>>> virtualized). >>> >>> Which actually brings up another point: wouldn't this change make it >>> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? >>> >>> DR >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > ______________________ > > -- > Christian Einfeldt, > Producer, The Digital Tipping Point > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Sun Sep 25 18:52:46 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:52:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Central Computer??? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > Computer store on Howard St sells no OS boxes with a credit. Zareason pricy > > > > > On Sunday, September 25, 2011, Christian Einfeldt > wrote: >> Hi, >> there are several vendors that sell machines without Microsoft software on >> them, most notably, Zareason, which is right over in Berkeley. ?They are a >> family owned business who derive all (ALL!) of their income from selling >> Linux machines. ?Let's help get the word out for them! >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: >> >> The question then becomes: Will there be any non sticker-ed boxes to buy? >> >> a_kleider at yahoo.com >> ________________________________ >> From: Wladyslaw Zbikowski >> To: Jeff Bragg >> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines >> with UEFI... >> >> My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it >> has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an >> official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same >> kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to >> install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order >> to sell any Windows boxes: >> >> Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per >> processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would >> prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft >> operating systems. >> >> http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm >> >> The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; >> they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a >> box with a "Windows 8" sticker. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg >> wrote: >>> Good question, to which I have no good answer. ?My suspicion is it will >>> depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing >>> emulation >>> the the expected firmware). ?I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests >>> to >>> squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to >>> competing OSes. >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >>>>> only >>>>> virtualized). >>>> >>>> Which actually brings up another point: ?wouldn't this change make it >>>> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? >>>> >>>> DR >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sf-lug mailing list >>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >> >> ______________________ >> >> -- >> Christian Einfeldt, >> Producer, The Digital Tipping Point >> > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Sun Sep 25 19:07:55 2011 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: References: <4E7B8ADF.1050700@dslextreme.com> <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317002875.82319.YahooMailRC@web181717.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> People still Dual-Boot? Why? Using a Virtual Machine? It's less messy. Apple is the only with issues over it. But, then again. They keep losing their phones. It is now safe to say they find nifty ways to market themselves. ________________________________ From: Dan Murphy To: Brian Morris Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" Sent: Sun, September 25, 2011 6:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... Central Computer??? On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:33 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > Computer store on Howard St sells no OS boxes with a credit. Zareason pricy > > > > > On Sunday, September 25, 2011, Christian Einfeldt > wrote: >> Hi, >> there are several vendors that sell machines without Microsoft software on >> them, most notably, Zareason, which is right over in Berkeley. They are a >> family owned business who derive all (ALL!) of their income from selling >> Linux machines. Let's help get the word out for them! >> >> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: >> >> The question then becomes: Will there be any non sticker-ed boxes to buy? >> >> a_kleider at yahoo.com >> ________________________________ >> From: Wladyslaw Zbikowski >> To: Jeff Bragg >> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 10:47 PM >> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines >> with UEFI... >> >> My impression is that this has nothing to do with Windows 8 per se; it >> has to do with what hardware vendors are required to do to get an >> official "Windows 8" sticker from Microsoft. In other words, the same >> kind of trick Microsoft pulled in the 90s when they told OEMs to >> install (or at least pay for) Windows on every box they made, in order >> to sell any Windows boxes: >> >> Microsoft has induced many OEMs to execute anticompetitive "per >> processor" contracts for MS-DOS and Windows, even though many would >> prefer to preserve their freedom to offer PCs with non-Microsoft >> operating systems. >> >> http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f0000/0046.htm >> >> The difference here is, vendors can still sell non-Microsoft boxes; >> they just can't put a "Windows 8" sticker on them. So just don't buy a >> box with a "Windows 8" sticker. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Jeff Bragg >> wrote: >>> Good question, to which I have no good answer. My suspicion is it will >>> depend on the virtualization software (whether it's implementing >>> emulation >>> the the expected firmware). I can't imagine it would serve MS' interests >>> to >>> squash virtualization of Windows as a side-effect of being spiteful to >>> competing OSes. >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 2:00 PM, David Rosenstrauch >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 09/22/2011 03:57 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Incentive for me to continue to steer clear of MS Windows entirely (or >>>>> only >>>>> virtualized). >>>> >>>> Which actually brings up another point: wouldn't this change make it >>>> impossible (or very difficult) to run Windows 8 as a VM? >>>> >>>> DR >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sf-lug mailing list >>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >> >> ______________________ >> >> -- >> Christian Einfeldt, >> Producer, The Digital Tipping Point >> > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alchaiken at gmail.com Sun Sep 25 22:51:09 2011 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 22:51:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 68, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brian Morris writes: > Computer store on Howard St sells no OS boxes with a credit. Zareason pricy Assuredly you refer to the awesome Central Computer: http://www.centralcomputers.com/commerce/misc/sanfrancisco.jsp which has 5 Bay Area locations. Central Computer is also owned by a family, the Yeungs. Unlike, ahem, some other Bay Area computer and electronics chains, Central has knowledgeable employees and consumer-friendly policies. It's a pleasure doing business with them. -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600? (cell) ? ? ? ? ? ?? http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ "What you do for a living is not be creative, what you do is ship." -- Seth Godin, vimeo.com/5895898 From akkana at shallowsky.com Mon Sep 26 09:36:05 2011 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:36:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: <1317002875.82319.YahooMailRC@web181717.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1317002875.82319.YahooMailRC@web181717.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110926163605.GA3518@shallowsky.com> vincent polite writes: > People still Dual-Boot? Why? Using a Virtual Machine? It's less messy. Apple is > the only with issues over it. If you know how to take a Windows 7 OEM install and make it run in a virtual machine under Linux, please post the instructions somewhere (and send me a link!) There are a lot of people trying to do that and I couldn't find anyone who'd found a reliable way. Of course, it probably won't support aero since VMs don't handle graphics cards well enough; but even without aero it would be useful. But, dual-booting aside, my understanding of the issue Matthew Garrett brought up is that it would prevent Linux from booting at all, whether or not there's also a Windows boot present. If grub doesn't have the special Microsoft-approved keys, then you won't even get as far as the grub screen. ...Akkana From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Sep 26 09:54:12 2011 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:54:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft trying to shut out dual-booting machines with UEFI... In-Reply-To: <20110926163605.GA3518@shallowsky.com> References: <4E7BA1D2.3060103@darose.net> <1316985508.6916.YahooMailNeo@web36501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1317002875.82319.YahooMailRC@web181717.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <20110926163605.GA3518@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20110926165412.GB2245@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > But, dual-booting aside, my understanding of the issue Matthew Garrett > brought up is that it would prevent Linux from booting at all, > whether or not there's also a Windows boot present. If grub doesn't > have the special Microsoft-approved keys, then you won't even get as > far as the grub screen. And, in conclusion, go, Coreboot! From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Mon Sep 26 13:25:48 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 13:25:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets next Sunday October 2 Message-ID: <4E80DFCC.7080503@dslextreme.com> SF-LUG meets on the First Sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM this Sunday October 2 at the Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Avenue. All meeting times are nominal. Bring your problems and if no one in attendance can solve a problem we know where to find more help. Cafe Enchante is at 6157 Geary Boulevard on the South East corner of Geary and 26th Avenue. (415) 251-9136 If you're coming by bus, take any of the Geary buses west, they run often. Here's a link to a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&cp=17&bav=on.2,or.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=cafe+enchante+san+francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=cafe+enchante&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=0,0,9801631951036779628&ei=ldpuTf2SCIS4sAO54Im3Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBUQnwIwAA From jstrazza at yahoo.com Mon Sep 26 22:40:43 2011 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 22:40:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] jobs Message-ID: <1317102043.9134.YahooMailNeo@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> * Sorry for the commercial, but here are some available jobs.? They are located in Newark, CA John ? ? ?Systems Administrator ? Vancouver, BC or Newark, CA .Net Database Software Developer ? Newark, CA Software Quality Assurance Engineer ? Newark, CA ? http://www.paypros.com/jobs.asp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 23:02:56 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Gmail) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 23:02:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] jobs In-Reply-To: <1317102043.9134.YahooMailNeo@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1317102043.9134.YahooMailNeo@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Getting page not found Sent from Dan's iPad On Sep 26, 2011, at 10:40 PM, "John F. Strazzarino" wrote: > Sorry for the commercial, but here are some available jobs. They are located in Newark, CA > John > > > Systems Administrator ? Vancouver, BC or Newark, CA > .Net Database Software Developer ? Newark, CA > Software Quality Assurance Engineer ? Newark, CA > > http://www.paypros.com/jobs.asp > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Tue Sep 27 09:16:56 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:16:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [OT'ish] The newest monopolist tactic from Microsoft (and Intel) Message-ID: <4E81F6F8.4090001@dslextreme.com> As you can see I am forwarding from the alt.os.linux.mandriva newsgroup. This is about how MS wants to use UEFI to lock only Windows 8 and its signed proprietary software into the newer computers. Bobbie Sellers -------- Original Message -------- Path: eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Aragorn Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mandriva,alt.os.linux.ubuntu Subject: [OT'ish] The newest monopolist tactic from Microsoft (and Intel) Followup-To: alt.os.linux.mandriva,alt.os.linux.ubuntu Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:00:02 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Strider Lines: 19 Message-ID: My apologies to those who will find this topic too advocacy-related, but this issue has been the subject of hot debate these days on the Gentoo developer mailing list. Someone in be.comp.os.linux posted the following URL - well, actually, the long URL, and I have taken the liberty of shortening it via TinyURL - and as I was already witness to the debate on the Gentoo mailinglists [*], I took out the opportunity of giving you guys the heads-up. I'm setting the follow-up to both groups so as to prevent newsreaders from inadvertently setting a follow-up first and then cutting off the other group later. http://tinyurl.com/6c2stj7 From mmdmurphy at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 09:23:38 2011 From: mmdmurphy at gmail.com (Dan Murphy) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 09:23:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [OT'ish] The newest monopolist tactic from Microsoft (and Intel) In-Reply-To: <4E81F6F8.4090001@dslextreme.com> References: <4E81F6F8.4090001@dslextreme.com> Message-ID: I am going to be "devils advocate" and say that I don't see this lock-down happening (or, at least, there will be a way around it). Why? Lawsuits. Remember all the 'crud' Microsoft got in Europe for bundling IE (and only IE) with Windows ?? On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > ? ? ? ?As you can see I am forwarding from the alt.os.linux.mandriva > newsgroup. This is about how MS wants to use UEFI to lock only Windows 8 > and its signed proprietary software into the newer computers. > ? ? ? ?Bobbie Sellers > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Path: > eternal-september.org!mx04.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: Aragorn > Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mandriva,alt.os.linux.ubuntu > Subject: [OT'ish] The newest monopolist tactic from Microsoft (and Intel) > Followup-To: alt.os.linux.mandriva,alt.os.linux.ubuntu > Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 18:00:02 +0200 > Organization: A noiseless patient Strider > Lines: 19 > Message-ID: > > My apologies to those who will find this topic too advocacy-related, but > this issue has been the subject of hot debate these days on the Gentoo > developer mailing list. > > Someone in be.comp.os.linux posted the following URL - well, actually, > the long URL, and I have taken the liberty of shortening it via > TinyURL - and as I was already witness to the debate on the Gentoo > mailinglists [*], I took out the opportunity of giving you guys the > heads-up. > > I'm setting the follow-up to both groups so as to prevent newsreaders > from inadvertently setting a follow-up first and then cutting off the > other group later. > > ? ? ? ?http://tinyurl.com/6c2stj7 > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com Wed Sep 28 17:21:19 2011 From: bliss-sf4ever at dslextreme.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:21:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] One Laptop per Child now a $75, 9' tablet... Message-ID: <4E83B9FF.7080605@dslextreme.com> Old story but I hadn't heard about it until I started researching tablets this afternoon. bliss From grantbow at dreamfish.com Thu Sep 29 07:08:02 2011 From: grantbow at dreamfish.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 17:08:02 +0300 Subject: [sf-lug] Dreamfish PHP Message-ID: Hi everyone, As many of you know I am leading a project in Nairobi, Kenya through Dec 6th to build technology for Dreamfish and mentor a group of ambitious youth developers as we go. Our youth team members come from a local Nairobi slum and are making their way out of extreme poverty day by day. They have all graduated from a year long program expanding in East Africa called Nairobits. http://nairobits.com Our project uses open source software components ( described http://pads.dreamfish.com/tech-plan-2011 ) and donated laptops to help Dreamfish members connect, grow and realize their dreams, often of helping others. I have met some incredible people who are members. In my free time this project also enables me to help open source advocates here connect with peers elsewhere. We are planning a Kenyan OLPC summit to help the eleven deployments share experiences. While not as big a production as the http://olpcsf.org summit held downtown at the SFSU campus (practically above the Powell St. BART station & Westfield Shopping Center) Oct 21, 22 & 23rd we hope it will be helpful for the deployments here. Here is a Dreamfish overview and project update available from Tiffany von Emmel's blog. http://vonemmel.com/2011/09/community-tech-project-update/ The last few days our team has been beginning to understand the PHP code of http://status.net and learning how to make changes. We are looking for help with PHP and status.net as the main engine of our new website. If you are interested in participating, please email me or join us in IRC http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=dreamfish Thank you, Grant Bowman http://www.grantbow.com/dreamfish.html P.S. We are also running a campaign with a video of the team and matching contributions in our final two days http://www.indiegogo.com/Dreamfish-Community-Tech