From bliss at sfo.com Thu Apr 1 18:42:48 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2010 18:42:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday April 4 SF-LUG meeting Message-ID: <4BB54B98.2030104@sfo.com> Hi you LUG members, At the Cafe Enchante on 26th and Geary from 11 AM to 1 PM (nominally) The SF-LUG will meet to present & solve problems and show off whatever new toys we have gotten our hands on. Has anyone else heard of the move by Kubuntu to give up base 2 measurements of disk space? Maybe it was an April Fools joke? Has anyone heard of the new Lenova dual processor, dual mode netbook running Windows 7 on the netbook using an Intel CLUV processor and a Linux (Skylight)on the detachable tablet using an ARM processor on Snapdragon for up to 8 hours of independent operation? That really sounds like AFj. Well I will bring along the Linux Pro magazine for April and you can find out a little more about the Lenova netbook, at the Cafe Enchante on 26th and Geary from 11 AM to 1 PM (nominally) on Sunday April 4. Knoppix 6.3 is also going to be there in one form or another. later Bobbie Sellers, From grantbow at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 04:11:25 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:11:25 +0100 Subject: [sf-lug] What is the sticky bit? Message-ID: What is the sticky bit? This question came up and started an interesting discussion, prompting me to take a closer look at exactly how ext2 does it's work. A sticky bit is well described in a paragraph of the chmod man page. [1] Jim, thanks for the fascinating discussion Wednesday at the Noisebridge Linux Discussion group. [2] ?I was amazed at how much of what I thought I knew pretty well and have anecdotally learned over the years I actually don't comprehend it enough to fully describe it to other people. ?I found this document very useful in learning some of the details of what we discussed. http://www.nongnu.org/ext2-doc/ext2.html So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. ?Each block group has it's own inode table that contains not only the file name and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" also contains a copy of the file type of the referenced inode. I hope others on the list will find some of this useful. Cheers, Grant [1] RESTRICTED DELETION FLAG OR STICKY BIT The restricted deletion flag or sticky bit is a single bit, whose interpretation depends on the file type. For directories, it prevents unprivileged users from removing or renam? ing a file in the directory unless they own the file or the directory; this is called the restricted deletion flag for the directory, and is commonly found on world-writable direc? tories like /tmp. For regular files on some older systems, the bit saves the program's text image on the swap device so it will load more quickly when run; this is called the sticky bit. [2] https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/LinuxDiscussion From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Apr 2 09:15:57 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 09:15:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] What is the sticky bit? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > What is the sticky bit? Ah, one of my standard interview questions. ;-> > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. ?Each block > group has it's own inode table that contains not only the file name > and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" also contains a copy > of the file type of the referenced inode. I hope others on the list > will find some of this useful. Tip: Play around with the "stat" command, and you'll learn some rather interesting things about what data are stored in inodes for files you ask the "stat" command about (including for directories). $ stat /home/rick File: `rick' Size: 20480 Blocks: 40 IO Block: 4096 directory Device: 903h/2307d Inode: 162881 Links: 53 Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 1000/ rick) Gid: ( 1000/ rick) Access: 2010-04-02 09:11:58.000000000 -0700 Modify: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 Change: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 $ From alchaiken at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 16:02:21 2010 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 16:02:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Open for business: Building successful commerce around open source Message-ID: M?rten Mickos, CEO, Eucalyptus Systems Date: Thursday, April 8th, 2010 4:00pm \u2013 5:00pm Location: George E. Pake Auditorium, PARC, 3333 Coyote Hill Rd, Palo Alto, California, USA Description: It is an intriguing but challenging proposition to build a successful commercial operation around successful open source projects. This presentation deals with the questions of communities and contributions, market disruption, open source business models, and start-up entrepreneurship. Presenter: M?rten Mickos builds global disruptive businesses. He is CEO of Eucalyptus Systems, a provider of open source software for private computing clouds. Previously he was CEO of MySQL AB for seven years, growing that company from a garage start-up to the second largest open source company in the world. After the acquisition by Sun Microsystems of MySQL AB, he served as Senior Vice President of Sun's Database Group until the end of March 2009. He held multi-national CEO and senior executive positions in his native Finland. He is a member of the board of RightScale, Electrosonic and Mozilla Messaging. Mickos holds a M.Sc. in technical physics from Helsinki University of Technology. In 2006 he received the Audemars Piguet "Changing Times Award: European Entrepreneur of the Year 2006" and the Nokia Foundation Award. Talk Series: Engineering Communities across the Internet This talk is the first in a series exploring different perspectives on how people work together to get things done using the Web. The series presents new and existing technologies for collaboration, new practices that are emerging, and case studies with lessons learned in the management of real projects. We will hear about experiences in areas such as open source, strategies and technologies that enable engineering, and development communities with projects spanning participation-in-the-large to big impact from the agile few. This series will take place between March 25th and May 20, 2010. --------------------------------------------------------- This event is free and open to the public; no registration required. All talks take place at George E. Pake Auditorium, PARC (www.parc.com/map). There is parking available on site and the venue is handicap accessible. PARC FORUM about + online media archive: http://www.parc.com/events/forum.html TO SUBSCRIBE: Please visit www.parc.com/subscribe to sign up for regular PARC Forum announcements, e-newsletter, and/or RSS feeds. From jim at well.com Sat Apr 3 10:37:27 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:37:27 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] What is the sticky bit? In-Reply-To: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1270316247.6527.14.camel@jim-laptop> the stat command has lots of format sequence options, similar to the date command, uses the -c option followed by %_ where _ is one of the "format sequence" options; for examples: $ stat -c %A ~ ... $ stat -c %A%x ~ ... $ stat -c %A%x%U ~ the man page suggests using $ info coreutils 'stat invocation' which presents a lot of invocation for those who can use emacs editing commands. thanks for that, rick. On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 09:15 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > > > What is the sticky bit? > > Ah, one of my standard interview questions. ;-> > > > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. Each block > > group has it's own inode table that contains not only the file name > > and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" also contains a copy > > of the file type of the referenced inode. I hope others on the list > > will find some of this useful. > > Tip: Play around with the "stat" command, and you'll learn some > rather interesting things about what data are stored in inodes for files > you ask the "stat" command about (including for directories). > > $ stat /home/rick > File: `rick' > Size: 20480 Blocks: 40 IO Block: 4096 directory > Device: 903h/2307d Inode: 162881 Links: 53 > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 1000/ rick) Gid: ( 1000/ rick) > Access: 2010-04-02 09:11:58.000000000 -0700 > Modify: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > Change: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > $ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From jim at well.com Sat Apr 3 10:50:16 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:50:16 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions In-Reply-To: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> what are other standard interview questions? someone asked me what's the default signal sent by the kill command ( i said "15" ). On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 09:15 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > > > What is the sticky bit? > > Ah, one of my standard interview questions. ;-> > > > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. Each block > > group has it's own inode table that contains not only the file name > > and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" also contains a copy > > of the file type of the referenced inode. I hope others on the list > > will find some of this useful. > > Tip: Play around with the "stat" command, and you'll learn some > rather interesting things about what data are stored in inodes for files > you ask the "stat" command about (including for directories). > > $ stat /home/rick > File: `rick' > Size: 20480 Blocks: 40 IO Block: 4096 directory > Device: 903h/2307d Inode: 162881 Links: 53 > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 1000/ rick) Gid: ( 1000/ rick) > Access: 2010-04-02 09:11:58.000000000 -0700 > Modify: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > Change: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > $ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From andrewevansc at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 11:13:37 2010 From: andrewevansc at gmail.com (Andrew E) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 11:13:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions In-Reply-To: <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> References: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Linked lists. Regardless of the language, the idea of a class (i.e. class List) having a class inside of it (i.e. class Node) seems to be very important to a lot of people. That might be more of a developer question. I think there's a big difference between questions that are asked to developers and questions asked to sys admins. On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 10:50 AM, jim wrote: > > > what are other standard interview questions? > > someone asked me what's the default signal > sent by the kill command ( i said "15" ). > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 09:15 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > > > > > What is the sticky bit? > > > > Ah, one of my standard interview questions. ;-> > > > > > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. Each block > > > group has it's own inode table that contains not only the file name > > > and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" also contains a copy > > > of the file type of the referenced inode. I hope others on the list > > > will find some of this useful. > > > > Tip: Play around with the "stat" command, and you'll learn some > > rather interesting things about what data are stored in inodes for files > > you ask the "stat" command about (including for directories). > > > > $ stat /home/rick > > File: `rick' > > Size: 20480 Blocks: 40 IO Block: 4096 directory > > Device: 903h/2307d Inode: 162881 Links: 53 > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x) Uid: ( 1000/ rick) Gid: ( 1000/ rick) > > Access: 2010-04-02 09:11:58.000000000 -0700 > > Modify: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > > Change: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > > $ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Apr 3 12:17:25 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 12:17:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions In-Reply-To: <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> References: <20100402161557.GW3763@linuxmafia.com> <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20100403191724.GC23965@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com): > what are other standard interview questions? Well, some of the most standard of all questions come directly from the FAQ for comp.unix.questions and comp.unix.shell, so it's worthwhile reading that either if you're interviewing for technical positions or just for general knowledge. http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/faq/ For example, my friend Jim Dennis always asks about the problems covered in FAQs item 2.1 and 2.2: 2.1) How do I remove a file whose name begins with a "-" ? 2.2) How do I remove a file with funny characters in the filename ? I'll not be replicating what the FAQ says (live the FAQ; love the FAQ!), but will point to the really interesting part, which is where you have a pathologically named file like "91/02/07" (where the slashes are part of the filename and not directory separators) placed on a Unix system via a buggy NFS implementation like those common on old versions of MacOS. No amount of messing around with 'find' or 'rm' as described above will delete this file, since those utilities and all other Unix programs, are forced to interpret the '/' in the normal way. The general solution given by the FAQ is to identify the inode, e.g., "ls -li", and then (as root) do "clri [device] [inode#]". Also, you can try to rmdir or unlink the directory containing the file. In any event, once done, you are strongly advised to fsck the filesystem. One thing it's important to know, when reading that FAQ or others from the larger Unix world, is that they tend to give answers intended to work across all Unixes no matter how antiquated and brain-damaged. Therefore, shortcuts available on Unixes with the GNU toolset installed (including all Linux systems) aren't used. -- Rick Moen "The rules for numbers below ten do not apply to 6. rick at linuxmafia.com He is not a number, he is a free man." McQ! (4x80) -- FakeAPStylebook From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sat Apr 3 16:51:59 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 16:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions In-Reply-To: <1270317016.6527.29.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <181229.90453.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ...and 'TERM', I think, would also have gotten you a passing grade:-) --- On Sat, 4/3/10, jim wrote: > From: jim > Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions > To: "Rick Moen" > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 10:50 AM > > > ???what are other standard interview > questions? > > ???someone asked me what's the default > signal > sent by the kill command? ( i said "15" ). > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 09:15 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > > > > > What is the sticky bit? > > > > Ah, one of my standard interview questions.? > ;-> > > > > > So what is a directory?? It is a special > type of inode.? Each block > > > group has it's own inode table that contains not > only the file name > > > and inode reference but in later ext2 "revisions" > also contains a copy > > > of the file type of the referenced inode.? I > hope others on the list > > > will find some of this useful. > > > > Tip:? Play around with the "stat" command, and > you'll learn some > > rather interesting things about what data are stored > in inodes for files > > you ask the "stat" command about (including for > directories). > > > > $ stat /home/rick > >???File: `rick' > >???Size: 20480? ? ? > ? ???Blocks: 40? ? ? > ???IO Block: 4096???directory > > Device: 903h/2307d? ? ? Inode: > 162881? ? ? Links: 53 > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)? Uid: ( 1000/? > ? rick)???Gid: ( 1000/? ? > rick) > > Access: 2010-04-02 09:11:58.000000000 -0700 > > Modify: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > > Change: 2010-04-02 09:10:02.000000000 -0700 > > $ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From anth1y at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 17:30:27 2010 From: anth1y at gmail.com (Anthony Riley) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 17:30:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Preparing for a job interview Message-ID: Hi, I'm preparing for a job interview; they told me to be ready to demonstrate knowledge of the following: > 1. add a new user > > 2. default firewall setup > > 3. start and stop processes > > 4. what are the most frequent problems users have? > > 5. the OSI seven layers > > 6. what are good uses of batch scripting > > 7. learn the difference between centOS and Debian > > 8. IP tables > > 9. install and configure software > -- Anthony Riley II (415)407.9687 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 19:34:38 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 19:34:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Droid on Verizon Message-ID: Hi, I am seriously considering getting a Droid. I thought that I was going to hold out for a Nexus One, since it is unlocked, but I tested a virtual key pad today on the Droid, and I found that I didn't like the virtual keypad because I made lots of mistakes. I found that I was able to type at a decent speed (relatively speaking) on the Droid keypad, much to my surprise. I had previously done some testing of the Droid hard keypad, and thought that it was too problematic, but at that point I had not yet tested the virtual keypad. I was surprised by how many mistakes I made typing on the virtual keypad. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sat Apr 3 20:57:26 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 20:57:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: @BALUG 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and SlowLoris Message-ID: <20100403205726.12775tort2o2gnoc@webmail.rawbw.com> ----- Forwarded message from Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu ----- Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 20:56:00 -0700 From: "Michael Paoli" Subject: @BALUG 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and SlowLoris To: balug-talk at lists.balug.org Just confirmed earlier today: For 2010-05-18 BALUG meeting: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and SlowLoris ... anyway, just finished adding that update on the main BALUG web site. For more details, have a peek under: http://www.balug.org/#Meetings-upcoming Details will also be included in upcoming BALUG announcements[1]. As announced[1] earlier, we also have: 2010-04-20 Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation.[2] references/footnotes: http://www.balug.org/ 1. http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-announce-balug.org 2. http://www.balug.org/#Meetings-upcoming ----- End forwarded message ----- From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Sat Apr 3 21:37:11 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:37:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Droid on Verizon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking from experience, there is a certain learning curve and I don't think I'd write off the soft keypad just yet. It requires a certain learned faith in the autocorrection algorithm (and obviously a good such algorithm). Regarding the Nexus One, I'd love to hear from anyone who has one and their impressions thereof - especially in comparison to real-world use of a 3G iPhone (with which I'm growing a bit bored, nearly 2 years on). Nathan On Apr 3, 2010, at 19:34, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > > I am seriously considering getting a Droid. I thought that I was > going to hold out for a Nexus One, since it is unlocked, but I > tested a virtual key pad today on the Droid, and I found that I > didn't like the virtual keypad because I made lots of mistakes. I > found that I was able to type at a decent speed (relatively > speaking) on the Droid keypad, much to my surprise. I had > previously done some testing of the Droid hard keypad, and thought > that it was too problematic, but at that point I had not yet tested > the virtual keypad. I was surprised by how many mistakes I made > typing on the virtual keypad. > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From bliss at sfo.com Sun Apr 4 11:15:37 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:15:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu implements units policy, will switch to base-10 units in future release] Message-ID: <4BB8D749.30501@sfo.com> Jim would like you all to see this -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TAML-WNT] Ubuntu implements units policy, will switch to base-10 units in future release Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:02:17 +0100 From: Odd Sanvik Reply-To: To: "Ubuntu's future 10.10 operating system is going to make a small, but contentious change to how file sizes are represented. Like most other operating systems using binary prefixes, Ubuntu currently represents 1 kB (kilobyte) as 1024 bytes (base-2). But starting with 10.10, a switch to SI prefixes (base-10) will denote 1 kB as 1000 bytes, 1 MB as 1000 kB, 1 GB as 1000 MB, and so on." http://www.neowin.net/news/ubuntu-implements-units-policy-will-switch-to-base-10-units-in-future-release Contentious, really ?? LOL. -- Odd H. Sandvik _______________________________________________ taml-wnt mailing list t From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 4 11:33:58 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:33:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] New Open Source (Backup) Software Proposal (?) Message-ID: <20100404113358.168536xt89ugdpq8@webmail.rawbw.com> I might be rather - to perhaps quite interested ... but doing such, and doing it well, could be rather to quite non-trivial. Perhaps a wiki page to coordinate design of and work on such? ... at least for starters? E.g. a page somewhere under: https://secure.balug.org/wiki/doku.php?id=sf-lug:projects preface notes/comments: o Open Source does already have a lot to offer in the realm of backup software (e.g. GNU tar, cpio, Amanda, ...) o Open Source does already have a lot to offer that's useful to, but not necessarily, directly, or completely/specifically "backup" software, e.g.: dd, rsync, gpg, openssl, ssh/scp/sftp, NFS, RAID, AoE, network block devices, LVM, device/filesystem/file encryption, deduplication, databases, powerful programming languages, nice GUI interfaces/frameworks, etc. o What I see "typically"/mostly missing in the Open Source realm is something that very nicely pulls many of the existing capabilities together, and makes an excellent framework for doing backups most any way one might need or want to do so. "Of course" one can often put something together fairly easily one's self, mostly using existing stuff, and adding, e.g., some bits of scripting or programming to tie the various pieces together ... but such tends to be yet another one-off (semi-)"solution" - and typically doesn't solve the problem quite the same way the next person wants it solved (though it still may be useful to many). What I'd like to see (or would propose): o An open modular framework - so as to be quite easy to add additional features/capabilities/functionality/formats, etc. - in many cases by effectively just tying into and leveraging other existing software. Should also be able to tie into quite arbitrary software - including software that's not necessarily Open Source (e.g. tie in via commands/IPC/APIs). o shouldn't need to implement the whole bloody thing/wishlist at once (lest it may never get done, nor even started) o should be able to add to / extend it, without breaking backwards compatibility, and without dragging along excessive cruft for sake of backwards compatibility - so, sufficiently reasonable up-front design/planning may be quite important. o should be written in some capable high-level language(s) (e.g. perl, python) for the most part - only bits really needing higher levels of performance optimization (or perhaps security) should be implemented in (most likely) C - but that may (or may not) be at all necessary. o should also have a nice capable GUI o absolutely everything that can be functionally done in the GUI must also be fully doable from command (CLI). o "command line window" - something I'd really like to see (have seen it in commercial Veritas Volume Manager before - not sure if it exists elsewhere). Don't know about current versions of Veritas Volume Manager, but some older versions had a feature, I think it was called "open command line window" ... you did that, then you could see, for anything and everything that could be done in the GUI, one would see the command(s) that one could use from the command line (e.g. shell prompt) to accomplish those same tasks. That was a highly useful feature - e.g. if one didn't know how to do it from CLI, could do it in the GUI ... and see how it's done, from that, with CLI. One could then take that information/knowledge, and script it for the next rather similar several hundred operations, and not spend hours going clicky clicky clicky with the GUI. Bonus if the GUI also reflects updates in real-time, even if they're done independently from a command prompt. I've also seen other software take a somewhat similar approach - instead of a "command line window", actions done via GUI would be written to a log file - in the same form they could also be executed from CLI. o should be able to write in quite standard archive formats, e.g. tar, cpio o shouldn't be limited to only writing existing common archive formats o should be capable of backups to various media, e.g. disk, flash, tape, CD-R[W]/DVD+-R[W]/Blu-ray/... - essentially any reasonably suitable rewritable or write-once random access or streaming media. o should be capable of writing targets as filesystems, filesystem images, or archive formats. o archive formats should be "enhanced" / added to - or likely better yet, separate (meta)data also backed up, to quite fully back up all relevant data and file metadata. E.g., got ACLs? Was that ACL data backed up? Did you back up your sparse files efficiently? If you restore the sparse files you backed up, will they be restored with the sparse blocks as sparse, but the null filled blocks not sparse? o To the extent feasible, restore - even without specific tool(s) or software, and bare metal recovery, should be rather to quite easy (e.g. rather analogous to the approach Amanda uses - short identifying header block, then GNU tar format - dd and tar suffice to restore). o It shouldn't be mandatory to restore all metadata - e.g. one may want to restore to a different filesystem type that doesn't support (the same) metadata. Not restoring backed up metadata should be able to generate warning(s) - should also be able to configure suppression of such warnings (by default or for just specific invocation, such as with CLI option or likewise via GUI option). o Metadata backup - there should be reasonable capabilities to backup metadata - such should be done in forms to both make bare metal recovery as easy as feasible, and to also make the metadata readily available in human parseable format(s) - and again without needing specific software tools at recovery time - so that one can make various design/layout/configuration decisions at restore time. E.g.: o Exactly how were the disks/LUNs partitioned? o What were the exact sizes of each disk/LUN? o How exactly was RAID configured? Including spares? o How big, and how full was each filesystem? o How much space was used at and beneath any given directory on any filesystem? (at recovery time, one may wish to consider changing what is and isn't a separate filesystem where - knowing various sizing information may be relatively critical in being able to quickly assess and make such decisions). o if one splits a filesystem upon recovery, does one know about space increases due to what was hard links, but will become separate files? o More/less metadata - what about "foreign" (e.g. NTFS) filesystems? What about efficiently backing up filesystems that have less metadata than POSIX (e.g. FAT)? Do we add archive format(s) to cover those, and/or have some failsafe (e.g. image) method? o space efficiency - compression (at least as option), also: o option to turn on/off o option to adjust compression level/algorithm (space vs. CPU tradeoffs) o "smart"/auto adaptive option(s) - e.g. to allow the backup software to determine if compression is/isn't the bottleneck, and accordingly use higher/lower(or none) compression levels o play nice/smart with encryption - compression (if at all) before encryption, not after. o scalable/distributable: o should work reasonably from small single system writing to floppies, CD-R[W], DVD+-R[W], tape, or other disk(s), up to exceedingly large distributed enterprise/institution environments o must be able to work across network o should be able to work intelligently with SAN o network protocols and ports - should be as simple as feasible, but no simpler (e.g. reduce complexity in allowing through firewalls). Should also be rather configurable (e.g. if one wants to run it on, e.g., TCP port 22, 25, 80 or 443 because the firewall configurations already pass those through, that should be doable). o should be able to work/deal reasonably with low-performance components (e.g. slow archive devices that are somewhat unreliable and should be read verified after write, slow/intermittent network connections, etc.) o should be able to integrate/manage large numbers of backup clients and servers - should interoperate quite nicely o should be able to separate out various client/server functionality (e.g. to dedicated system(s)/server(s) and/or hardware), e.g.: o backup clients (pull source data) o encryption layer(s) o backup/restore management/control (track/manage everything - directly or indirectly) o backup targets (write data to backup storage) o access controls, etc. - should be able to manage who can do what where with what server(s)/data, e.g.: o summary reporting - no details below host and filesystem (no reporting on specific filenames or users) o detail reporting - anything but data in files themselves o backup - make backups, but no other write access (or read everything, write only to backup targets) o restore - read/inspect/search backup data, and write data back to original (or alternate) source locations o compartmentalization by user/group/server(s)/etc. o integration into authentication frameworks (e.g. LDAP) o deduplication - should be smart about and capable of deduplication, should be highly correct with such (always confirm matched data, not just match of hash). Should be able to do deduplication on-the-fly (before writing to non-volatile storage) and/or after-the-fact (e.g. delay it if necessary for efficiency, or consolidate multiple backup archives and apply deduplication across them). o should intelligently and efficiently handle empty/small files (e.g. those of size less than hash of data), but needn't handle them more efficiently than source (or target) filesystem itself if writing to filesystem rather than an archive format. Should also be sufficiently efficient when writing such to archive format. o replication - should be able to intelligently replicate backup archive(s) or any portion thereof to additional copy(/ies) as and where desired (local or across network). Should be able to specify synchronous or asynchronous replication, and any applicable tolerances/delays or scheduling of such. Retention policies should be configurable to be distinct or identical across replicated target locations. o should be highly monitorable - should be able to well report on its own health (e.g. anything and/or everything that fails proper self-checks, or that it's been asked to do and wasn't able to do or had problem(s) with). Should be able to tie in nicely with SNMP and other means of monitoring. Should be able to disable SNMP if desired. o database backups: o should be able to intelligently integrate with databases for proper "hot" backups, be able to do "cold" DB backups and know that they're good "cold" backups - should also be able to integrate with databases to trigger "cold" backups (cleanly shutdown database, backup "cold", restart database if it was brought down for "cold" backup). o should be able to intelligently detect at least many cases where database isn't being backed up properly (e.g. one pointed it at filesystem containing database, but didn't configure it to be able to talk to the database to safely take a "hot" backup - and the database is live and changing as it's being requested to back up those files). Perhaps this can be combined with feature(s) below, but may be more user-friendly if it can also more intelligently identify such database (e.g. report not just the discovered file(s), but the database(s) using that/those file(s)). o live filesystems: backing up rw mounted filesystems is an imperfect science. Should be capable of detecting and, if desired, logging and/or warning about issues encountered, and if/as feasible, automagically recover from and back them up safely. E.g. let's say we're backing up a large file, and it changes as we're backing it up - say we're 3/4 through backing it up, when the file has data we already read and wrote to backup changes, and perhaps the file grows - or shrinks - maybe even shrinks to less than the length of data we've already written - can we at least detect and reasonably warn about this? If feasible, can we automagically correct? (if we read it again end-to-end, and all's fine and nothing changes that time, can we just discard what we started with, and use the more recent read pass and metadata?). If the file keeps changing faster than we can read it end-to-end, can we at least warn about that? Should we skip re-read recovery attempt if the file is larger than some threshhold size, or if it took longer than some amount of time to read already? o snapshots - should be capable of using/interacting with filesystem/device snapshots to take safe(er) full (or incremental/differential) backups of live rw mounted filesystems. o incremental/differential backups - should be fully capable of such. Should also be able to do so intelligently on POSIX filesystems via use of ctime. Should also be able to (as configured) specifically distrust ctime from any and/or all specific host(s) and/or filesystem(s), and/or force validation (e.g. compare hashes and/or actual data, as desired/configured). o link-farms - should be able to intelligently do link-farm (multiple hard link) type backups o should provide sufficiently intelligent/capable interfaces to the backedup/archived data, and preferably in forms familiar to the user(s)/administrator(s) - e.g. as a (ro) filesystem interface o should be able to manage and enforce retention schedules (e.g. must retain until, must destroy by), should also be able to do that quite intelligently based on logical criteria (e.g. for some filesystem on some host, for all backups older than one month, only keep the most recent backup within each week, and for all those backups older than a year, only keep the most recent within each month). Should be able to retroactively change retention policies after backups are created. For backup in archive format, may be desired to give distinct retention polices within the archive after such was created, such should (by default) warn, but allow such archive to be split to enforce retention policy (split might be deferred until first expiration within archive is to be enforced). Specific implications of "destroy"/drop in retention policies should be quite configurable based upon security needs (or lack thereof) - e.g. can vary from free/deallocate (allow for reuse), to specified overwrite operations on key(s) and/or backed up data. o encryption and key management - need to be able to intelligently handle and manage that - should also be able to handle high(er) security key management policies - e.g. restricting how keys are stored and managed (e.g. the keys for this subset of servers can only be held in RAM on that encryption server, and they can only be backed up from that RAM by encrypting to this authorized set of semi-master keys, and then only writing to such-and-such device directly connected to that encryption server, and also containing on that device, key/passprhase which authenticates that device's authorization to hold those keys encrypted to one of those other authorized semi-master keys). o public key encryption should be leveraged as and where appropriate, and likewise for symmetric key encryption (e.g. bulk session encryption speed efficiency). E.g. TLS/SSL/ssh/gpg/etc. may be leveraged for various desired purposes (e.g. authenticating client to server and vice versa). o most or all encryption bits should be optional (e.g. they may be undesired in some environments, or the speed/efficiency gains may be preferred over encryption security) and should also be tunable/configurable in general and quite specifically. (e.g. one may wish to not encrypt backups of data that's public, but one may wish to ensure there are enough cryptographic based checks to ensure integrity of such backups (so, e.g., at least any alterations to the backed up data can be detected). o encryption key management may be leveraged to aid enforcement of retention policies. E.g., optionally, destroy backup can be as efficient as destroy key. For higher security requirements, overwrite patterns/levels can be set/enforced for keys and/or wipes of backup data. o may be highly useful to also incorporate management of existing backup frameworks (e.g. Amanda). I.e. don't obsolete what's already in place and working - at minimum, play nice with it, and perhaps even well leverage it. Well, anyway, that's the short start of my wish-list :-) ... I probably forgot at least some stuff, but that's likely at least most of it. Oh, can I have world peace too? :-) > Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:32:02 -0500 > From: David Hinkle > Subject: [sf-lug] New Open Source Software Proposal > To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" > > David Rosenstrauch, Alex and I have been talking back and fourth > about how to get what is probably a pretty standard scenario > accomplished with open source tools. We can't seem to find any pile > of software that can make it happen, so I was thinking of writing it. > First I want to solicit some feedback on my idea. > > The plan would be an rsync replacement. Instead of syncing local > files to a remote fileserver over ssh, it would instead break the > local files into chunks, independently encrypt each chunk, and sync > those chunks over. The chunks could be stored in a sqllight > database along with the checksum of the original unencrypted contents > of each chunk and the checksum of the unencrypted file. We would > key these chunks based on the encrypted filename. > > If we save the data in this manner, on subsequent backups, the client > can ask for a list of checksums, compare those checksums to local > files, and then transmit any chunks of those local files that may > have been changed. > > This would means we should be able to get rsync like performance > backing up to an encrypted datastore on a remote server that has no > knowledge of the encryption key. We would also get the awesome ease > of use of rsync over ssh. Any server you have shell access to and > that you can upload files to you could use as a safe remote > repository for your data. > > What do you guys think? Usefull? Not usefull? Would you use it? From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 4 11:34:30 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:34:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sticky bit; directories Message-ID: <20100404113430.14797j4m9p16o2cc@webmail.rawbw.com> > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 12:11:25 +0100 > From: Grant Bowman > Subject: [sf-lug] What is the sticky bit? > To: SF-LUG > > What is the sticky bit? This question came up and started an > interesting discussion, prompting me to take a closer look at exactly > how ext2 does it's work. A sticky bit is well described in a > paragraph of the chmod man page. [1] Well, it's not at all specifically ext2. The sticky bit has quite a long history, going back over 30 years into UNIX. POSIX/SUS probably best and most definitively covers currently what the sticky bit is - or per standards should be. Linux (e.g. LSB) heavily leverages the POSIX/SUS standards. > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. ?Each block A directory is "just" a file of type directory. Historically, it just contained the inode number and filename of the files it contained. It still does, though precise structure and where/how that's stored may be rather to quite different now, depending upon the specific filesystem type. The operating system takes care of handling/interpreting different file types differently. E.g. the operating system handles reads from, and writes to, a named pipe or device special file differently than writes to an ordinary file. Once upon a time ... better yet, simulated :-) here: $ unix-v7 PDP-11 simulator V3.3-2 Disabling XQ @boot New Boot, known devices are hp ht rk rl rp tm vt : rl(0,0)rl2unix mem = 177856 # mkdir /tmp && mkdir /tmp/d && cd /tmp/d # >f # od -c . 0000000 237 007 . \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000020 240 007 . . \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000040 236 007 f \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000060 # bc ibase=8 7*400+237 1951 7*400+240 1952 7*400+236 1950 quit # ls -afi . 1951 . 1952 .. 1950 f # rm f && od -c . 0000000 237 007 . \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000020 240 007 . . \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000040 \0 \0 f \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 0000060 # So, ... explanation of the above simulation ... UNIX 7th Edition (circa 1979) - apparently about a 1988 image - run on a PDP simulation. So, I create directories /tmp (not present on that image) and then /tmp/d and cd into /tmp/d I then do a dump (od(1) - Octal Dump) of that directory, with the -c option, ASCII characters will be written as their character or C style octal escape sequences. Non-ASCII will still be shown in octal. I then create an empty file named f (by using >f). I then do another dump of that directory, as done before. We then do a little math, using bc(1) - Basic Calculator. We set the input base to be 8 (octal), and do a bit of math from our preceding od -c output. In that historic directory format, the first two bytes were the inode number little-endian, so we convert those (400 octal=4*2^6=256) to decimal. We then do ls -afi - the -a option gives us all entries (includes those starting with . - also redundant with -f but doesn't hurt), -f gives us all entries, in directory order (the order they're written in the directory itself), and -i shows us the inode numbers. Note that our calculated inode values match those shown from the -i option of ls. Look again at the od output. 16 bytes per directory entry - two bytes for inode, 14 for filename. At the time, inodes were limited to two bytes - thus a maximum of a bit under (2^8)^2=65536 maximum total files (of any type, including directories) could be on any one filesystem. At the time, filenames were also limited to a maximum length of 14 characters. In the directory, they were null padded to 14 bytes. We then remove the file, and repeat our od -c . Note that the only difference is the inode number data for that f file has changed to 0. Well, there is no inode zero - that's used in directories to indicate unallocated. Note that the operating system doesn't squash the filename entry in the directory - it doesn't need to, it's already deallocated and freed that inode - but it does mean the name of the file that was in that directory is still in the directory. Note also that the directory didn't shrink. It was 32 bytes with just . and .., then 48 after we added file f, but still 48 after "removing" (unlinking) file f. It's interesting to note also that the filesystem call isn't remove, it is unlink(2). It unlinks the file from the directory, so it's no longer present by that name in that directory. If that was the last link, and the file is no longer open, then it's inode and any associated allocated blocks are freed. So the file wasn't really removed, but more like deallocated - but of course all the data bits that it was may get squashed by any subsequent filesystem writes, and there's nothing on the filesystem that explicitly says where that file's data or metadata was (of course in our case with empty file, there were no data blocks - but there was allocated inode data). Anyway, that's how it was, once upon a time. Things are quite a bit different now, but there's also quite a bit that is more-or-less the same. Note that we did od directly on the directory - could have used cat, or cat . | od -c, but that won't typically work on current UNIX/LINUX/BSD/etc. On non-ancient systems, one uses opendir(3) and readdir(3) and also lstat(2) and perhaps readlink(2) and stat(2). For something not nearly so ancient (e.g. non-ancient Linux): $ mkdir d && cd d && >f $ strace -fv -eall -s2048 -o ../.strace.out ls -1afi . 129068 . 116864 .. 129069 f $ And trimming down our strace(1) output, we find we have: open(".", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_LARGEFILE|O_DIRECTORY) = 3 getdents64(3, {{d_ino=129068, d_off=2, d_type=DT_UNKNOWN, d_reclen=24, d_name="."} {d_ino=116864, d_off=17920, d_type=DT_UNKNOWN, d_reclen=24, d_name=".."} {d_ino=129069, d_off=17921, d_type=DT_UNKNOWN, d_reclen=24, d_name="f"}}, 4096) = 72 lstat64(".", {st_dev=makedev(58, 2), st_ino=129068, st_mode=S_IFDIR|0700, st_nlink=2, st_uid=1003, st_gid=100, st_blksize=4096, st_blocks=1, st_size=72, st_atime=2010/04/04-02:19:31, st_mtime=2010/04/04-02:18:55, st_ctime=2010/04/04-02:18:55}) = 0 lstat64("..", {st_dev=makedev(58, 2), st_ino=116864, st_mode=S_IFDIR|0700, st_nlink=6, st_uid=1003, st_gid=100, st_blksize=4096, st_blocks=1, st_size=368, st_atime=2010/04/04-01:45:54, st_mtime=2010/04/04-02:19:17, st_ctime=2010/04/04-02:19:17}) = 0 lstat64("f", {st_dev=makedev(58, 2), st_ino=129069, st_mode=S_IFREG|0600, st_nlink=1, st_uid=1003, st_gid=100, st_blksize=4096, st_blocks=0, st_size=0, st_atime=2010/04/04-02:18:55, st_mtime=2010/04/04-02:18:55, st_ctime=2010/04/04-02:18:55}) = 0 That's a bit lower-level than we might prefer to see, but ls(1) uses opendir(3), readdir(3), and lstat(2), and the libraries make some lower-level system (2) calls to satisfy those standard library (3) calls. Note that opendir(3) doesn't provide inode numbers, but getdents64(2) does happen include them - but ls(1) never sees them from getdents64(2), as it is (and should be) using opendir(3) and readdir(3), thus ls(1) uses lstat(2) to get the inode numbers which we requested with the -i option (if we omitted the -i option, ls(1) may have then skipped those lstat(2) calls). Essentially, though the form and means of storage and access may have changed, the directory still is file of type directory, it somehow stores the inodes and names of the files it contains, and it requires filesystem space (at least a bit, directly or indirectly somewhere) to store that directory data. Note also that it's still the case that for many(/most) LINUX filesystem types (e.g. ext3, ext2), directories never shrink - but there are some exceptions, e.g. tmpfs and reiserfs. > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 09:15:57 -0700 > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] What is the sticky bit? > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com): > > What is the sticky bit? > > Ah, one of my standard interview questions. ;-> Me too[1] :-) > > So what is a directory? It is a special type of inode. ?Each block > > Tip: Play around with the "stat" command, and you'll learn some > rather interesting things about what data are stored in inodes for files Essentially: a (plain/ordinary) file's data blocks contain the actual data stored in file (sparse files may also "contain" nulls for skipped blocks). directory contains (directly or indirectly) inode numbers and names of the files it contains, directory is "just" a different type of file other file types may do and/or store things a bit differently (e.g. pipe, block or character special device, symbolic link). various filesystem types may store/organize things a bit differently various filesystem types may also have some additional data or metadata for the filesystem itself and/or its files, e.g. ACLs, finer resolution [acm]time data, UUID, LABEL, where mounted or last mounted, etc. Other than the above, inode contains all (or nearly all) of the other (meta)data about a file (of any type). Namely: device, inode, type & permissions, link count, uid, gid, device type, logical size, filesystem block size, number of blocks allocated, atime, mtime, ctime 1. It's on the outline of stuff I form questions from. I don't necessarily always ask, or always ask in the same way, but it's rather typical I'll ask at least some question(s) having to do with sticky bit (or where sticky bit may be the solution or answer to the problem scenario presented). From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com Sun Apr 4 11:38:52 2010 From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:38:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Preparing for a job interview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: which are you unsure about? On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Anthony Riley wrote: > Hi, I'm preparing for a job interview; they told > me to be ready to demonstrate knowledge of the > following: > >> 1. add a new user >> >> 2. default firewall setup >> >> 3. start and stop processes >> >> 4. what are the most frequent problems users have? >> >> 5. the OSI seven layers >> >> 6. what are good uses of batch scripting >> >> 7. learn the difference between centOS and Debian >> >> 8. IP tables >> >> 9. install and configure software >> > > -- > Anthony Riley II > (415)407.9687 > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 4 12:08:10 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 12:08:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu implements units policy, will switch to ... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100404120810.901524b6nwqmk800@webmail.rawbw.com> Interesting, but I think that's a bit of a misrepresentation. When in doubt, go to the source (and I did). I think I'd attempt to concisely (and perhaps a bit inaccurately) paraphrase as: " SI prefixes (kB, MB, etc.) must be (10^3)^N units binary prefixes (KiB, MiB, etc.) must be (2^10)^N units use binary for most binary stuff use SI for (at least) entire disk size use SI for communications (e.g. bytes/second) much stuff can use either/both (e.g. based upon command options) There is kB and KiB, but there is no KB. there are various exceptions CLI is an exception GUI default to SI bugs will be filed against things that don't suitably conform " Or, straight from the horse's mouth: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy Anyway, looks like at least some steps in (arguably more-or-less) the right direction - at least if nothing else it increases consistency and reduces ambiguity relative to current state - and that's generally a rather to quite good thing. > Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 11:15:37 -0700 > From: Bobbie Sellers > Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu implements units policy, will switch to > base-10 units in future release] > To: sf-LUG > > Jim would like you all to see this > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [TAML-WNT] Ubuntu implements units policy, will switch to > base-10 units in future release > Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 00:02:17 +0100 > From: Odd Sanvik > > "Ubuntu's future 10.10 operating system is going to make a small, but > contentious change to how file sizes are represented. Like most other > operating systems using binary prefixes, Ubuntu currently represents 1 > kB (kilobyte) as 1024 bytes (base-2). But starting with 10.10, a switch > to SI prefixes (base-10) will denote 1 kB as 1000 bytes, 1 MB as 1000 > kB, 1 GB as 1000 MB, and so on." > > http://www.neowin.net/news/ubuntu-implements-units-policy-will-switch-to-base-10-units-in-future-release From grantbow at gmail.com Sun Apr 4 13:18:56 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 13:18:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu Boot Speed Progress Message-ID: Today at the sf-lug meeting someone asked about the planning and progress of Ubuntu's boot speed. Here are some links with more details. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/BootPerformance - check out the blueprints and status from Jaunty 9.04, Karmic 9.10 and Lucid 10.10 due to be released April 29th, 2010. http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/ - daily chart of boot speeds from daily builds using the Dell Inspiron Mini 10v (1011) with SSD as a reference model. They haven't hit the 10s target yet. Cheers, Grant Bowman https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam IRC meetings every other Sunday night at 7 PM including tonight - all are welcome From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 4 18:06:20 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 18:06:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.com (sflug domU) upgraded to Debian 5.0.4 "lenny" Message-ID: <20100404180620.99585c43b769g0gs@webmail.rawbw.com> Jim Stockford* upgraded the sflug domU (sf-lug.com) from: Debian 4.0 "etch" to: Debian 5.0.4 "lenny" Services should be available again. *references/excerpts (very slightly redacted): > Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 17:57:30 -0700 > From: "Michael Paoli" > Subject: DNS (208.96.15.252) & sf-lug.com services available again > (upgrade done: Re: sflug domU upgrade (Su 2010-04-04 3:30p-5:30p > PDT) (Security support ended 2010-02-15 for Debian 4.0 "etch")) > To: jim > Cc: , > > Jim Stockford* upgraded the sflug domU (sf-lug.com) > from: > Debian 4.0 "etch" > to: > Debian 5.0.4 "lenny" > > Some services (e.g. sf-lug.com master DNS 208.96.15.252, web server) > were intermittently unavailable during the upgrade (started a bit after > 3:30 P.M.), but all should be up and available again (upgrade was completed > by about 5:37 P.M.). > > *I "assisted", mostly with wee bit of back seat driving, etc. Was all done > remotely, coordinated via phone, ssh(1) and screen(1). > > Quoting jim : > > >hiya, > > i'm around and will check email regularly > >jim > >415 823 4590 my cellphone, call anytime From andrewevansc at gmail.com Thu Apr 8 15:12:12 2010 From: andrewevansc at gmail.com (Andrew E) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:12:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] net neutrality Message-ID: Quick question: Should we be afraid of the verdict that allows Cumcast to restrict broadband access to certain programs/files/people ? Strange, too, because Cumcast just sent a flier in my last bloated internet bill that said I could take part in a class-action lawsuit against Cumcast if I had suffered from not being able to download my torrents quickly enough. It said I could stand to gain upwards of $16. http://search.sys-con.com/node/1347882 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Apr 8 15:45:33 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:45:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] net neutrality In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100408224532.GK22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): > Quick question: > > Should we be afraid of the verdict that allows Cumcast to restrict > broadband access to certain programs/files/people ? I'm not sure attempting to put FCC in charge of large swaths of the Internet is a good idea, though. Neither is EFF: Here's the problem: Congress has never given the FCC any authority to regulate the Internet for the purpose of ensuring net neutrality. In place of explicit congressional authority, the FCC decided to rely on its "ancillary jurisdiction," a catchall source of authority that amounts to "we can regulate without waiting for Congress so long a the regulations are related to something else that Congress told us to do." Of course, this line of reasoning could translate into carte blanche authority for unelected bureaucrats to regulate the Internet long after Chairman Genachowski has moved on. As we put it in October: If "ancillary jurisdiction" is enough for net neutrality regulations (something we might like) today, it could just as easily be invoked tomorrow for any other Internet regulation that the FCC dreams up (including things we won't like). For example, it doesn't take much imagination to envision a future FCC "Internet Decency Statement." After all, outgoing FCC Chairman Martin was a crusader against "indecency" on the airwaves and it was the FCC that punished Pacifica radio for playing George Carlin's "seven dirty words" monologue, something you can easily find on the Internet. And it's also too easy to imagine an FCC "Internet Lawful Use Policy," created at the behest of the same entertainment lobby that has long been pressing the FCC to impose DRM on TV and radio, with ISPs required or encouraged to filter or otherwise monitor their users to ensure compliance. After all, it was only thanks to a jurisdictional challenge ... that we defeated the FCC's "broadcast flag" mandate which would have given Hollywood and federal bureaucrats veto power over innovative devices and legitimate uses of recorded TV programming. So while we are big supporters of net neutrality, we are glad that today's ruling has reasserted the important limits on the FCC's authority to regulate the Internet. http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/04/court-rejects-fcc-authority-over-internet See also: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/09/net-neutrality-fcc-perils-and-promise Maybe what you really need is a locally owned or municipal cable service. I personally think it's a shame that the latter have been becoming rarer, e.g., Palo Alto used to have a decent municipal service (Palo Alto Cable Coop), but shut it down in 2003 and signed up with the Comcast monopoly, to their lasting regret. http://www.communitymediacenter.net/about/cable_coop/ http://venturecompany.com/Opinions/files/comcast_no_triple.html -- Rick Moen "The word 'totally' is redundant except when rick at linuxmafia.com describing how rad something is." McQ! (4x80) -- FakeAPStylebook From jim at well.com Fri Apr 9 09:04:34 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 09:04:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Social App Developer, San Francisco, CA, $75K to 100K Message-ID: <1270829074.6749.93.camel@jim-laptop> This is a full time, on-site, contract-to-hire position located in San Francisco, CA paying $75,000 to $100,000 + benefits. US Citizens or Green Card holders only please. Local candidates preferred, however, candidates interested in relocating at own expense considered as well. No telecommuting. My client is a stealth start-up in the social-video sector, the original core technology out of SRI. The CEO of 4 other online media companies since the 90's, sold 3, and took one public so he knows what he's doing. They are looking for a Social App Developer who is ready to join them in building the next generation of great online experiences with streaming media and the real-time web. Requirements: * Strong fundamental in OOP, design patterns, algorithms, and data structures * Strong understanding of Web fundamentals, HTML/CSS/JavaScript, and LAMP/PHP stack * 5+ years experience building high-traffic web applications * Understand development/release/maintenance cycles * BS or MS in Computer Science or equivalent experience * AS3 programming experience * Experience embedding application in social environments (Facebook, Google, MS, etc) * Ability to work in a highly collaborative environment while also being able to focus on independent work * Experience working in an Agile environment a plus. * Demonstrates flexibility and openness to incorporate input from all levels within the organization * Excited to participate in any task in the development process * Strong analytical and problem solving skills, attention to detail, desire to learn, excel, and contribute * Video a plus When applying, please submit your (preferably MS-Word) RESUME along with your full time SALARY and your contract HOURLY requirements to beau[AT]open-source-staffing.com Thank you, Beau J. Gould ------------------ Open Source Staffing http://www.open-source-staffing.com http://www.facebook.com/beau.gould beau[AT]open-source-staffing.com From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Mon Apr 12 10:23:37 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? Message-ID: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss at sfo.com Mon Apr 12 10:39:41 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:39:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BC35ADD.9080802@sfo.com> vincent polite wrote: In a very large typeface An Adobe employee says it like it is: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 Definitely overdue to dislike Apple for business practices that sank the clone makers and numerous other partners over the years. Hating a brand name or anything else is a waste of energy better used to further your own ends. > > > Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ later bliss From bliss at sfo.com Mon Apr 12 18:01:58 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:01:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <921485.54431.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC35ADD.9080802@sfo.com> <921485.54431.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BC3C286.3060106@sfo.com> vincent polite wrote: > I agree. My point is look at how many cringe, or get depressed, at the > mere mention of Microsoft, when there really isn't much difference > between them and Apple. Do something because you like it, not hate > something else. Yes my companions on TA-ML have lots of unhappiness over the behavior of these companies but I doubt any real hate. That is for the computer religionists who are stuck in the past. The Amiga was a lot more fun than the MS-DOS machines and way ahead of Windows until long after CBM turned up its toes. Actually a lot of Amigans who know the story hate the people who liquidated the company. An investor who took the company away from the founder and his henchman, a CEO type. The CEO was just following the chief shareholder's directions. I used to write articles about it for the Amiga UG newsletter. Anyway on Linux I don't expect Linus Torwalds to stab anyone in the back and make a platform obsolete. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bobbie Sellers > *To:* SF-LUG > *Sent:* Mon, April 12, 2010 10:39:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? > > vincent polite wrote: > > In a very large typeface > > An Adobe employee says it like it is: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 > > Definitely overdue to dislike Apple for business practices that sank > the clone makers > and numerous other partners over the years. Hating a brand name or > anything else > is a waste of energy better used to further your own ends. > > > > > > Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: > > > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 > > > > > > > later bliss From bliss at sfo.com Tue Apr 13 07:24:42 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:24:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> vincent polite wrote: About Apple earlier that it might be admired by the inexperienced or ignorant or merely the avaricious. But had you seen this yet: Apple has updated its developer terms, these new terms will shut down many current developers, and disallow many popular game engines and other apps. Now is the time for us to band together, spread the word, and help Stop The Madness. http://stopthemadnessstevejobs.com/wordpress/ > > Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > later Bobbie Sellers From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 09:24:30 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 09:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> Message-ID: <473190.21432.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Actually, that was the article I posted was all about. Check out Defective by Design: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/. Look at what Apple is doing with there DRM software. Scary stuff. ________________________________ From: Bobbie Sellers To: vincent polite ; SF-LUG Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 7:24:42 AM Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? vincent polite wrote: About Apple earlier that it might be admired by the inexperienced or ignorant or merely the avaricious. But had you seen this yet: Apple has updated its developer terms, these new terms will shut down many current developers, and disallow many popular game engines and other apps. Now is the time for us to band together, spread the word, and help Stop The Madness. http://stopthemadnessstevejobs.com/wordpress/ > > Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > later Bobbie Sellers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 12:03:59 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:03:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> Message-ID: <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > But had you seen this yet: > Apple has updated its developer terms, these new terms will shut > down many > current developers, and disallow many popular game engines and other apps. > Now is the time for us to band together, spread the word, and help > Stop The Madness. > > http://stopthemadnessstevejobs.com/wordpress/ No, sorry, that's dumb. The best way to "stop the madness" is to completely ignore iPhones, iPads, iPod Touches, and other DRMed computing devices. It should be, for starters, beneath our dignity to join efforts to lobby Steven Jobs to redecorate the cells of that particular user prison, not to mention the entire matter being irrelevant to Linux groups in the first place. From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Apr 13 12:25:38 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 12:25:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: hi, The best way to "stop the madness" is to completely ignore iPhones, > iPads, iPod Touches, and other DRMed computing devices. I recently bought a Droid, and I am encouraged by the fact that a Linux-powered computer is being promoted so heavily by North America's largest celluar provider, Verizon. To the extent that the Free Software on the Android market place continues to grow, it will get people accustomed to seeing their software as something that is free as in free beer, which undermines the value proposition in Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office. I would be less annoyed by Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office if they were small niche players, rather than the platforms upon which so many other software projects are built. Clayton Christensen wrote that disruptive technologies usually start in markets adjacent to the market leaders' main market. We are starting to see Linux and Free Software gain mainstream acceptance through cell phones, which is a market in which Microsoft is a minority player and an after-thought. Now, Verizon is selling netbooks with Microsoft XP for $149.00, which is much less than the cost of a Droid, at $199.00. How long will it be until Android, and then Ubuntu, is regularly offered by North American telecoms? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 14:21:40 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:21:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100413212140.GB22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I recently bought a Droid.... Cool. Glad you enjoy it. Unlike with many smartphones, including the very similar quad-band Motorola Milestone, the Droid's bootloader is _not_ DRM-locked to be willing to boot only vendor-signed firmware images, meaning that you're not totally dependent on the vendor and can, if you wish, run something other than Motorola/Verizon-controlled Android 2.0 & 2.1. For example, you could run CyanogenMod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod), the most highly respected community variant. The Google-standard Android environment is subject to heavy vendor control, partly at the insistance of the companies that provide commercial geographic mapping services (such as deCarta), who require that any smartphones to which their data will be served be vendor-controlled so that users cannot accumulate map data and use it for other purposes. This is one of the reasons why the OpenStreetMap project is so important: so that real open source smartphones with full feature sets can be practical. > ...and I am encouraged by the fact that a Linux-powered computer is > being promoted so heavily by North America's largest celluar provider, > Verizon. _Android isn't Linux_ in any meaningful sense. Android relies on a modified Linux kernel, sure, but with a different libc, completely different userspace generally, and a modified Java-like environment called Dalvik as the predominant development environment. The result is not a "distro", but rather a completely different OS, maintained by Google, Inc., that has essenially no input from the Linux community and has almost nothing in common with Linux as we know it. Looking from an open source / free software perspective, Android is a dead-end, and doesn't advance computing freedom significantly. > To the extent that the Free Software on the Android market place > continues to grow.... Ports of free software[1] to Android aren't currently significant, and probably never will be. It's a heavily vendor-controlled market. The closest thing to a free-software smartphone running real Linux, today, is the Nokia N900 running Maemo 5 (closely derived from Debian), which is _not_ a vendor-captive OS platform (or hardware), and is almost 100% open source. There will soon be third-party alternative builds for the N900, N800, and N810 such as Mer (based on Ubuntu 9.04 with plans to merge in useful parts of Maeomo 5) that work around the remaining small bits of proprietary code and go all open source. [1] The term "free software" in this context is _not_ a proper noun, and therefore in the English language should be lowercased. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 14:43:03 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:43:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100413214303.GC22335@linuxmafia.com> Just an afterthought: Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > How long will it be until Android, and then Ubuntu, is regularly > offered by North American telecoms? I'll note in passing that Android doesn't lead to Ubuntu, because Android is (as noted) nothing like a Linux distro. However, the real point I wanted to make is that there's a long tradition of the telcos expecting to control their customers, and thus devices and contracts they offer strongly tend to include various types of lock-in, such as the SIM-locking and CID-locking typically built into smartphones offered by telcos to their customers. To explain: The telephone's bootloader typically includes "SIM lock" code that makes the telephone refuse to boot unless the SIM = Subscriber Identity Module chip you insert (that provides the 'phone's telephone number and basic network identity, the 15-digit International Mobile Subscriber Identity = IMSI) is from the sponsoring telco carrier. E.g., the Samsung's bootloader would refuse to boot with a non-AT&T SIM chip present. The a second level of telco control that's often present on smartphones is called CID = Carrier ID locking at the ROM level, where the bootloader will refuse to boot if you have reflashed the firmware, replacing the carrier-approved junk with something better, because, e.g., maybe you don't like or want to improve on or replace the cruddy applets they provided. The telco-issued firmware always includes a routine that can be invoked to SIM-unlock the phone if fed the correct string of data, and the telcos generally (referring to at least T-Mobile and AT&T) have policies that they will give you this string upon request, if the phone had paid-up contractual service for at least 90 days. You call their customer service for this purpose, and cite the IMEI = International Mobile Equipment Identity string, which is basically the phone chassis's globally unique string, encoding the manufacturer identity, model, and serial number. The customer service rep enters that IMEI into an application in front of him/her, and cites back to you the SIM-unlock code. Usually, the rep is able to tell you where in the 'phone's menus to enter the code, but sometimes you need to Web-search that detail. You'll see on the Internet widespread claims that US law _requires_ telcos to provide this service. That turns out to be completely incorrect, and, e.g., AT&T have stated that they'll be unwilling to unlock iPhones under any circumstances, even when the contracts have expired. Useful pages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMEI If you want a cellphone that _doesn't_ include SIM-locking, generally you have to acquire it from someone other than a telco. E.g. one can buy unlocked Motorola phones directly from Motorola. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 14:48:48 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 14:48:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <20100413214303.GC22335@linuxmafia.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> <20100413214303.GC22335@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100413214848.GD22335@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > E.g., the Samsung's bootloader would refuse to boot with a non-AT&T > SIM chip present. Apologies for including this sentence without context. I had copied and pasted part of an explanation I'd written some months ago on a different mailing list, and forgot to snip out that particular sentence. In original context, I'd explained how I'd telephoned AT&T Customer Service and gotten the SIM-unlock code for a Samsung cellphone, originally used by a subscriber to AT&T's GSM cellular service, so I could use it with a different vendor's SIM. From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com Tue Apr 13 14:56:20 2010 From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty) Date: 13 Apr 2010 17:56:20 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? Message-ID: <1594062469.1271195726087.JavaMail.cfservice@sl3app1> >The closest thing to a free-software smartphone running real Linux, >today, is the Nokia N900 running Maemo 5 (closely derived from Debian), >which is _not_ a vendor-captive OS platform (or hardware), and is almost >100% open source. What about Neo Freerunner Openmoko? http://www.openmoko.com/freerunner.html Blake Haggerty Permanent Placement Specialist Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 27 Maiden Lane San Francisco, CA 94108 (p) (415) 788-8488 (f) (415) 788-2592 www.sapphirena.com -----Original Message----- From:Rick Moen rick at linuxmafia.com To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ; Sent: Apr 13, 2010 05:24:00 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com): > I recently bought a Droid.... Cool. Glad you enjoy it. Unlike with many smartphones, including the very similar quad-band Motorola Milestone, the Droid's bootloader is _not_ DRM-locked to be willing to boot only vendor-signed firmware images, meaning that you're not totally dependent on the vendor and can, if you wish, run something other than Motorola/Verizon-controlled Android 2.0 & 2.1. For example, you could run CyanogenMod (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod), the most highly respected community variant. The Google-standard Android environment is subject to heavy vendor control, partly at the insistance of the companies that provide commercial geographic mapping services (such as deCarta), who require that any smartphones to which their data will be served be vendor-controlled so that users cannot accumulate map data and use it for other purposes. This is one of the reasons why the OpenStreetMap project is so important: so that real open source smartphones with full feature sets can be practical. > ...and I am encouraged by the fact that a Linux-powered computer is > being promoted so heavily by North America's largest celluar provider, > Verizon. _Android isn't Linux_ in any meaningful sense. Android relies on a modified Linux kernel, sure, but with a different libc, completely different userspace generally, and a modified Java-like environment called Dalvik as the predominant development environment. The result is not a "distro", but rather a completely different OS, maintained by Google, Inc., that has essenially no input from the Linux community and has almost nothing in common with Linux as we know it. Looking from an open source / free software perspective, Android is a dead-end, and doesn't advance computing freedom significantly. > To the extent that the Free Software on the Android market place > continues to grow.... Ports of free software[1] to Android aren't currently significant, and probably never will be. It's a heavily vendor-controlled market. The closest thing to a free-software smartphone running real Linux, today, is the Nokia N900 running Maemo 5 (closely derived from Debian), which is _not_ a vendor-captive OS platform (or hardware), and is almost 100% open source. There will soon be third-party alternative builds for the N900, N800, and N810 such as Mer (based on Ubuntu 9.04 with plans to merge in useful parts of Maeomo 5) that work around the remaining small bits of proprietary code and go all open source. [1] The term "free software" in this context is _not_ a proper noun, and therefore in the English language should be lowercased. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Tue Apr 13 15:02:36 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:02:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Fw: Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <473190.21432.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <743367.69082.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, meant to send that to the whole group. ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: vincent polite To: Christian Einfeldt Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 3:01:39 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? Apple doesn't want to gain market share. Part of there appeal is that they are not mainstream and better for creative people. That way they can justify there high profit margins. They can also make people believe that they are a superior machine. Have you ever noticed you can't by Apple products at a mom & pop store. Only larger retailers and chic Apple stores. Remember Macadam? Ironically, Apple's growth appears to be among software developers, from my observation. They like using vi not having to get special work arounds to install hardware or software. ________________________________ From: Christian Einfeldt To: vincent polite Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 12:16:42 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? hi, On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:24 AM, vincent polite wrote: Actually, that was the article I posted was all about. Check out Defective by Design: http://www.defectivebydesign.org/. Look at what Apple is doing with there DRM software. Scary stuff. > > > AAPL, at $219 B is now 82% of the market cap of MSFT at $266 B and 117% of GOOG at $186 B. Will Apple's growth help Free Sotware on the desktop? To the extent that Apple shows people that they can use something other than Microsoft Windows, that is a wee bit helpful. Much of what keeps GNU-Linux out of the mainstream is the interlocking dependencies that keep people locked into the Microsoft Windows desktop. Breaking those dependencies might help Linux edge in. And Apple is helping to break Adobe's dominance with Flash, which is a good thing, if it will allow Free formats to edge in. In other words, as the market becomes more fragmented and less dominated by one name, the greater room there is for alternatives to grow. On the other hand, Apple's support of DRM is problematic for the growth of open formats and thus, indirectly, Free Software. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 15:11:25 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 15:11:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <1594062469.1271195726087.JavaMail.cfservice@sl3app1> References: <1594062469.1271195726087.JavaMail.cfservice@sl3app1> Message-ID: <20100413221125.GO22346@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Blake Haggerty (Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com): > What about Neo Freerunner Openmoko? > http://www.openmoko.com/freerunner.html Sadly a dead project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner When the OpenMoko, Inc. company abandoned the project a year ago, it was a promising 2.5G-class GSM phone (i.e., not full 3G[1]) with a not-ready-for-prime-time developer firmware build with some severe ergonomic problems, e.g., they hadn't yet done the power-management optimisation, such that battery life remained absymal.[2] Now that I'm no longer relying on my Neo Freerunner GTA02 for telephone service, I might see if one of the non-OpenMoko firmware builds, such as Qt Extended (formerly Qtopia) or one of the Android ports is less twitchy and more practical on it. [1] Third-generation cellular data service entails adaptive use of cellular frequencies to maximise available speech and data rates. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G Because the OpenMoko developers had only a certain amount of bargaining power with chip vendors over the latter's insistence on keeping hardware interfaces a secret, the company had to use a radio chipset not capable of full 3G operation in order to keep the amount of proprietary binary-only code to a bare minimum. [2] This was a reasonable judgement call for a development-level build, letting the developers concentrate on key problems in other areas first. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Apr 13 22:29:11 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 22:29:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Now is the Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <20100413212140.GB22335@linuxmafia.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC47EAA.2050504@sfo.com> <20100413190359.GA22335@linuxmafia.com> <20100413212140.GB22335@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100414052911.GA19977@linuxmafia.com> Just so I don't mislead anyone: > The closest thing to a free-software smartphone running real Linux, > today, is the Nokia N900 running Maemo 5 (closely derived from Debian), > which is _not_ a vendor-captive OS platform (or hardware), and is almost > 100% open source. There will soon be third-party alternative builds for > the N900, N800, and N810 such as Mer (based on Ubuntu 9.04 with plans to > merge in useful parts of Maeomo 5) that work around the remaining small > bits of proprietary code and go all open source. Clarification: The Nokia N810, Nokia N800, and Nokia 770 are/were not smartphones, but rather wireless Internet tablets / PDAs. That is, they lacked circuitry for interacting with public cellular telephone networks directly. The only way you can make/receive telephone calls on them is using either Internet telephony or via Bluetooth tethering to a separate cellular. The N900 is Nokia's first smartphone / Internet tablet. From andrewevansc at gmail.com Thu Apr 15 00:23:58 2010 From: andrewevansc at gmail.com (Andrew E) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:23:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? Message-ID: Hi all, Firebug is showing me that almost every asset (images, etc) on a site that i'm working on does a slow slow dns lookup, totalling about 10 dns lookups for the one pageload. This boggles my mind. Doesn't DNS just need to be looked up once if everything's in the same place? It's a Linux server (FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p28 (VKERN)) with Apache2, with a bunch of Drupal and other stuff on it. Is there an apache/linux setting somewhere that's making this happen? You all are always good help. Thanks in advance, Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Apr 15 01:58:26 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 01:58:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100415085826.GT22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): > Firebug is showing me that almost every asset (images, etc) on a site that > i'm working on does a slow slow dns lookup, totalling about 10 dns lookups > for the one pageload. This boggles my mind. Doesn't DNS just need to be > looked up once if everything's in the same place? This is just off the top of my head, but maybe it's a matter of the software in question (Firefox?) repeatedly attempting DNS lookups over IPv6 (against a non-IPv6-compliant nameserver), and the eventually falling back to IPv4. The reason this rings a bell is that it came up last November on the SVLUG mailing list, just after Ubuntu Karmic Koala came out. Quoting a post of mine from then: Quoting Eric W. Brown (ebrown at techmart.com): > I think there is an open bug on this issue... > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glibc/+bug/417757 Hi, Eric. Meant to get back to you on that. Yes, thank you very much for the Launchpad reference. That accounts for it. Related coverage in Red Hat's bugzilla instance: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505105 Basically, Skip's Karmic Koala system was configured by default to attempt IPv6 DNS lookups (if and only if queried for a hostname by an IPv6-enabled userspace app such as his copy of Firefox). If his resolver config (/etc/resolv.conf) is set to hand off outbound queries to a non-IPv6-capable nameserver, then the resolver waits for a long time for the IPv6 answer before falling back to IPv4. Skip's solution of switching to OpenDNS "worked" in an incidental fashion, in that OpenDNS is IPv6-enabled. One of the more informed comments on the Launchpad bug (comment #7, by Jeroen Massar), made the same suggestion I did: install and use pdns-recursor. If you really don't care about IPv6 and just want the issue to go away (at the expense of headaches when/if you later change your mind about IPv6), then there are various ways of turning off IPv6 DNS system-wide, including putting "net.ipv6.conf.all.disable_ipv6=1" into /etc/sysctl.conf (and doing sudo sysctl -p). Note: Various people in the Launchpad thread talk about "DNS resolvers" inside SOHO gateway appliances, etc. Their intended reference is to _recursive DNS nameservers_: That choice of terminology is unfortunate, because it's easily confused with the _resolver software_, i.e., DNS client, that is in every TCP/IP device, and that in Linux is part of glibc and uses /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf, and /etc/hosts as configuration files. In addition to pdns-recursor, one might mention Unbound, which like pdns-recursor is IPv6-compliant. More at: http://linuxgazette.net/170/googledns.html From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Thu Apr 15 07:30:40 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:30:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Any DNS lookups that Firebug can tell you about have nothing to do with your server unless you're actually viewing the page from a web browser running on the server (and even so, still nothing to do with Apache). Rick's suggestion about your client configuration make sense, but this would apply to pretty much all pages, not just a single one. If you care to share the URL for the site, we might gain a bit more insight. Nathan On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Andrew E wrote: > Hi all, > > Firebug is showing me that almost every asset (images, etc) on a site that > i'm working on does a slow slow dns lookup, totalling about 10 dns lookups > for the one pageload. This boggles my mind. Doesn't DNS just need to be > looked up once if everything's in the same place? It's a Linux server > (FreeBSD 4.7-RELEASE-p28 (VKERN)) with Apache2, with a bunch of Drupal and > other stuff on it. Is there an apache/linux setting somewhere that's making > this happen? > > You all are always good help. Thanks in advance, > > Andrew > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Apr 15 11:18:56 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:18:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100415181856.GD22346@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): > CONFIDENTIAL: [RM: snip server URL and related text, which I'm pretty sure were the only confidential parts] > Firebug shows me a whole bunch of DNS lookups. Does it look like that IPv6 > vs IPv4 issue? I'm unfamiliar with how to diagnose issues with these > protocols or DNS in general. Here is a phpinfo() about the server > http://native-instinct.com/portfolio/info.php if that helps. As Nathan said, and I was implying, Firebug is reporting what's going on at the machine where _Firebug_ is running, which is where your Web browser is -- which Web browser I believe would be Firefox, right? So, the real question you should be asking yourself is, where's your Web-browsing machine (the machine you're running your -browser- on) consulting for DNS? Is the Web-browsing machine attempting IPv6-enabled DNS and falling back to IPv4-based queries when those fail? One quick way to check is to install Unbound, an IP6-enabled open-source recursive nameserver available for Unixes (including Linux and OS X) and MS-Windows, pointing your machine at it for nameservice, and seeing if the problem goes away. The URL I posted earlier details how. From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Thu Apr 15 11:52:40 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:52:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: <20100415181856.GD22346@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100415181856.GD22346@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Interestingly, I am seeing the same behavior on my machine. My first inclination was that Firebug was erroneously reporting DNS lookup time, but I discounted that quickly by looking at one of my own sites, and not observing a similar pattern. My next inclination was that it was a DNS configuration problem (ridiculously low TTL?) but a quick look doesn't seem to bear that out either. Now my curiosity is piqued! If I find anything, I'll let everyone know. Nathan On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): > > > CONFIDENTIAL: > > [RM: snip server URL and related text, which I'm pretty sure were the > only confidential parts] > > > Firebug shows me a whole bunch of DNS lookups. Does it look like that > IPv6 > > vs IPv4 issue? I'm unfamiliar with how to diagnose issues with these > > protocols or DNS in general. Here is a phpinfo() about the server > > http://native-instinct.com/portfolio/info.php if that helps. > > As Nathan said, and I was implying, Firebug is reporting what's going on > at the machine where _Firebug_ is running, which is where your Web > browser is -- which Web browser I believe would be Firefox, right? > > So, the real question you should be asking yourself is, where's your > Web-browsing machine (the machine you're running your -browser- on) > consulting for DNS? Is the Web-browsing machine attempting IPv6-enabled > DNS and falling back to IPv4-based queries when those fail? > > One quick way to check is to install Unbound, an IP6-enabled open-source > recursive nameserver available for Unixes (including Linux and OS X) and > MS-Windows, pointing your machine at it for nameservice, and seeing if > the problem goes away. > > The URL I posted earlier details how. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Thu Apr 15 12:12:25 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:12:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: References: <20100415181856.GD22346@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: I think I have something here, although I am still not sure why Firefox is taking so long to do what should be a local (in-process to FF) cache lookup for DNS. I compared the HTTP headers from my site that's behaving more sensibly to the site you mentioned, and I noticed in all the subsequent requests that are doing an additional DNS lookup, the "Connection:" HTTP header is being set to "close" rather than "keep-alive" - thus initiating a new TCP connection, an expensive prospect DNS lookup or no. (In fact, as I write this, it might be that Firebug incorrectly reports some of the connection overhead time as DNS lookup even if no actual lookup is being done). Certainly, on my system, a remote lookup (even on our corporate DNS system) didn't happen - I observed the whole network stream with Wireshark. I hope this helps! Nathan On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Nathan Hoover wrote: > Interestingly, I am seeing the same behavior on my machine. My first > inclination was that Firebug was erroneously reporting DNS lookup time, but > I discounted that quickly by looking at one of my own sites, and not > observing a similar pattern. My next inclination was that it was a DNS > configuration problem (ridiculously low TTL?) but a quick look doesn't seem > to bear that out either. Now my curiosity is piqued! If I find anything, > I'll let everyone know. > > Nathan > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > >> Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): >> >> > CONFIDENTIAL: >> >> [RM: snip server URL and related text, which I'm pretty sure were the >> only confidential parts] >> >> > Firebug shows me a whole bunch of DNS lookups. Does it look like that >> IPv6 >> > vs IPv4 issue? I'm unfamiliar with how to diagnose issues with these >> > protocols or DNS in general. Here is a phpinfo() about the server >> > http://native-instinct.com/portfolio/info.php if that helps. >> >> As Nathan said, and I was implying, Firebug is reporting what's going on >> at the machine where _Firebug_ is running, which is where your Web >> browser is -- which Web browser I believe would be Firefox, right? >> >> So, the real question you should be asking yourself is, where's your >> Web-browsing machine (the machine you're running your -browser- on) >> consulting for DNS? Is the Web-browsing machine attempting IPv6-enabled >> DNS and falling back to IPv4-based queries when those fail? >> >> One quick way to check is to install Unbound, an IP6-enabled open-source >> recursive nameserver available for Unixes (including Linux and OS X) and >> MS-Windows, pointing your machine at it for nameservice, and seeing if >> the problem goes away. >> >> The URL I posted earlier details how. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrewevansc at gmail.com Thu Apr 15 13:04:15 2010 From: andrewevansc at gmail.com (Andrew E) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:04:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] multiple dns lookups for one page? In-Reply-To: References: <20100415181856.GD22346@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Wow, good call. That would make sense that it's a constant TCP connection rather than DNS and Firebug is just assuming that it's DNS. I think this excerpt agrees with your hypothesis: Their example that is in httpd.conf (I think?): KeepAlive On MaxKeepAliveRequests 100 KeepAliveTimeout 2 *By default, KeepAlive is turned off. By turning it on (KeepAlive On), we allow a single TCP connection to make multiple requests without dropping the connection. For Drupal this is important, since each page typically has several elements on it, and a single hit on that page might make multiple requests. If KeepAlive is off, each element request will result in a new TCP connection and its associated overhead. The total number of requests available per connection is set by MaxKeepAliveRequests, here set to 100. The total amount of seconds the connection will stay up is set by KeepAliveTimeout, and I've set it to twice the length of my longest average page request.* I'm looking into the best way to handle this keep-alive issue, but I'm all ears if there is a best practices for this. Thanks, Andrew On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Nathan Hoover wrote: > I think I have something here, although I am still not sure why Firefox is > taking so long to do what should be a local (in-process to FF) cache lookup > for DNS. > > I compared the HTTP headers from my site that's behaving more sensibly to > the site you mentioned, and I noticed in all the subsequent requests that > are doing an additional DNS lookup, the "Connection:" HTTP header is being > set to "close" rather than "keep-alive" - thus initiating a new TCP > connection, an expensive prospect DNS lookup or no. (In fact, as I write > this, it might be that Firebug incorrectly reports some of the connection > overhead time as DNS lookup even if no actual lookup is being done). > Certainly, on my system, a remote lookup (even on our corporate DNS system) > didn't happen - I observed the whole network stream with Wireshark. > > I hope this helps! > > Nathan > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Nathan Hoover wrote: > >> Interestingly, I am seeing the same behavior on my machine. My first >> inclination was that Firebug was erroneously reporting DNS lookup time, but >> I discounted that quickly by looking at one of my own sites, and not >> observing a similar pattern. My next inclination was that it was a DNS >> configuration problem (ridiculously low TTL?) but a quick look doesn't seem >> to bear that out either. Now my curiosity is piqued! If I find anything, >> I'll let everyone know. >> >> Nathan >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:18 AM, Rick Moen wrote: >> >>> Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com): >>> >>> > CONFIDENTIAL: >>> >>> [RM: snip server URL and related text, which I'm pretty sure were the >>> only confidential parts] >>> >>> > Firebug shows me a whole bunch of DNS lookups. Does it look like that >>> IPv6 >>> > vs IPv4 issue? I'm unfamiliar with how to diagnose issues with these >>> > protocols or DNS in general. Here is a phpinfo() about the server >>> > http://native-instinct.com/portfolio/info.php if that helps. >>> >>> As Nathan said, and I was implying, Firebug is reporting what's going on >>> at the machine where _Firebug_ is running, which is where your Web >>> browser is -- which Web browser I believe would be Firefox, right? >>> >>> So, the real question you should be asking yourself is, where's your >>> Web-browsing machine (the machine you're running your -browser- on) >>> consulting for DNS? Is the Web-browsing machine attempting IPv6-enabled >>> DNS and falling back to IPv4-based queries when those fail? >>> >>> One quick way to check is to install Unbound, an IP6-enabled open-source >>> recursive nameserver available for Unixes (including Linux and OS X) and >>> MS-Windows, pointing your machine at it for nameservice, and seeing if >>> the problem goes away. >>> >>> The URL I posted earlier details how. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Apr 15 20:11:46 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:11:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Problems of being a backup MX (was: Warning: message 1O1ezP-0004Uk-FA delayed 48 hours) In-Reply-To: <878363.91317.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <878363.91317.qm@web82703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100416031146.GH22346@linuxmafia.com> Lx Rudis asked me an offlist question this morning. I gave him a quick if sketchy answer, while promising to write a proper, full answer later. It took a while to write, so I thought I'd post it here for collective knowledge. Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net): > hey rick, i figure you're seeing the attached email also but i thought i should ask you directly about it. > has sflug been compromised by a spammer? > is there anything _i_ am remiss in doing about this? > > > lx > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ---- > From: Mail Delivery System > To: sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com > Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 5:20:50 AM > Subject: Warning: message 1O1ezP-0004Uk-FA delayed 48 hours > > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. > A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of its > recipients after more than 48 hours on the queue on linuxmafia.com. > > The message identifier is: 1O1ezP-0004Uk-FA > The subject of the message is: Discount 54% > The subject of the message is: Discount 54% > > The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is: > > duncan at randometry.org > (generated from installers at linuxmafia.com) > Delay reason: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:: > host zork.net [70.85.129.199]: 450 4.1.1 : > Recipient address rejected: unverified address: > connect to spin.randometry.COM[66.93.140.140]:25: > Connection timed out > > No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for > some time, and this warning may be repeated at intervals if the message > remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up, > and when that happens, the message will be returned to you. OK, I finally have time to unpack this stuff for you. In the Big Inning, as the old baseball joke goes (i.e., 'in the beginning') my server's MTA address, Mailer-Daemon at linuxmafia.com, for some reason (1) was trying to send mail to "installers at linuxmafia.com", but also (2) decided to inform "sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com" about the results of that effort: > The address to which the message has not yet been delivered is: > > duncan at randometry.org > (generated from installers at linuxmafia.com) [...] > From: Mail Delivery System > To: sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com It's perfectly obvious why Mailer-Daemon at linuxmafia.com was attempting to get mail to installers at linuxmafia.com: "installers" is a heavily advertised e-mail address, that is shown on CABAL's Web pages and announcements as a point of contact to, e.g., let us know that you're coming to CABAL events and need special help with a problem-child computer, or that you might want us to have on hand a relatively rare Linux or BSD distribution, or something like that. Being heavily advertised, the "installers at linuxmafia.com" address is continually subjected to spam attempts from all over the world. That is not per-se a problem but rather an unavoidable consequence of actually bothering to be reachable on the Internet. Before anyone asks, no, I absolutely do not favour hiding addresses from spammers. I am not going to hide from them. They might at some point need to hide from me, but it's my Internet, I live here, and I do not hide from petty criminals. I have no idea offhand why Mailer-Daemon at linuxmafia.com sought to brief sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com about results of attempting to deliver mail to installers at linuxmafia.com. There would seem no connection between the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list and "installers". If I have time and interest, I might investigate, but definitely not today. sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com is an internal Mailman mail alias that resolves to both jim at well.com and lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net. I.e., it is a public address that reaches you both in your organisational capacity as listadmins of the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list. "installers at linuxmafia.com" is a regular, non-Mailman e-mail alias, defined in my system's /etc/aliases file. It likewise resolves to a pair of addresses: rick at linuxmafia.com and duncan at randometry.org . The second of those addresses is that of Duncan MacKinnon of San Francisco, co-head with me of CABAL. These past few years, Duncan has had a problem: He's been so incredibly busy with the rebuild of his house in Sunset Heights that his server has frequently been offline for long periods at a time. In fact, last I heard, he really would appreciate my just building a new server for him, which I've been meaning to do, except that things come up and sap my attention (surgery, and like that). I still want to build him that server. It's on my TO DO list. It'd get done sooner if I didn't come home and think: I don't want to see any more computers today. Maybe some gardening. Maybe a hike or bicycle ride, pet the cats, cook a nice meal. Also, I have kind of a backlog of projects, anyway. So, what happens when your mail server is down? Let's say you have a machine that is declared in your domain's DNS as an MX-type (Mail eXchanger) entry. It goes offline. Let's say Duncan's main server for randometry.org does that. Other machines trying to send it mail encounter failure when trying to open the socket to port 25. What do they do next? They go back and look through te destination domain's DNS for _other_ "MX" entities -- ones with higher-value and thus lower-priority metrics that are supposed to show which to consider primary and which fallback. Let's see what we're talking about, specifically for the randometry.org domain: :r! dig -t mx randometry.org +short 10 spin.randometry.COM. 20 zork.net. So: There are two MX entries in that domain's (randometry.org's) DNS. The first one, priority 10, is spin.randometry.COM. That's Duncan's personal server, the one that is often offline. The fact that the "10" value is the lower of the two that exist means this MX is _primary_, i.e., that delivering MTAs are asked to please try spin.randometry.COM _first_, and zork.net only if spin.randometry.COM is unreachable. In the situation under discussion, spin.randometry.COM _is_ in fact unreachable, so the delivering MTA (linuxmafia.com, in this discussion) attempts to drop off that mail at zork.net, which is a server run by my friend Nick Moffitt. What's going on there? Years ago, Duncan asked Nick, 'Nick, any chance you would be willing to have zork.net serve as a my fallback MX?' Nick said 'sure', and all was well for some years. But eventually, Nick called or wrote to Duncan, saying 'I'm re-doing my mail system, and disabling its willingness to accept mail addressed to randometry.org. You'll want to update your DNS accordingly. Unfortunately, Duncan's been so busy that he's not removed the "20" MX from his DNS, so delivery attempts to zork.net persist every time Duncan's own mail server is offline. And zork.net says: host zork.net [70.85.129.199]: 450 4.1.1 : Recipient address rejected: unverified address The "450" is an SMTP temporary failure code. Permanent failures are 55x. Tempfails are often implemented by sysadmins as a form of 'teergrubing' (tarpitting) to screw up attempts to deliver spam. The idea is that you're punishing the remote MTA attempting to drop off spam at your MTA by not refusing it outright (550 or 552), but rather saying the SMTP equivalent of 'Not now, but you're perfectly welcome to try again later.' The idea is to waste the spamhaus's time. (There are disadvantages -- beyond the scope of this mail.) Past doubt, this _is_ spam. You can tell by the Subject headers. (Apparently, there are two mails in queue.) > This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. > A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of its > recipients after more than 48 hours on the queue on linuxmafia.com. > > The message identifier is: 1O1ezP-0004Uk-FA > The subject of the message is: Discount 54% > The subject of the message is: Discount 54% Nick is presumably a bit pissed off that Duncan _still_, after some years, hasn't bothered to update his DNS to stop trying to drop off randometry.org's mail at zork.net as a relay -- years after Nick said "Duncan, I'm ceasing to be your relay." This whole syndrome is one of the reasons why it's really pretty rare for sysadmins to do the courtesy of being backup MXes for each other, any more. Over years, secondaries forget and shut off the relaying service without quite intending to (and without notice), or the primary leaves a machine offline for a long time, such that secondaries start building up huge mail spools that will later need redelivery to the primary. Also, the spammers long ago figured out that SMTP lower-priority MXes often have _much_ more lax antispam defences than do the primaries, so they _deliberately_ violate the RFCs by preferentially ignoring the primaries and dropping mail at the high-numbered (low-priority) mail hosts -- which then work frantically to redeliver to the primary. At best, you end up with the secondary triggering the primary's antispam defences during attempts to redeliver the spool, to the extent that the spooled mail includes detectable spam, which will invariably be the case. That's much like what Nick's zork.net is in fact attempting on my machine during the latter's delivery attempt (teergrubing). Because of those and other problems, domains doing backup MX for each other has been tending to go the way of the dodo, except in corner cases such as where a single admin controls both domains and can ensure that all machines implement the exact same antispam policies/measures. So, for example, my own domain has _no_ backup MX: :r! dig -t mx linuxmafia.com +short 10 linuxmafia.com. That means that, if my mail server goes down, I have a couple of days to deploy a replacement mail system somewhere on the Internet, and re-point my DNS to it, or mail will start bouncing. I figure I can do that -- and have: Last April, we had a big thunderstorm that fried almost all of the then-existing linuxmafia.com hardware, which was a PIII/500 with 256 MB RAM and a pair of 9 GB SCSI hard drives. Within about two hours, I had a basic setup of Debian installed and accepting mail on a replacement box, which is the PIII/800 with 1.5 GB RAM and 73 GB boot SCSI drive plus 18GBx2 mirrored pair SCSI drives that is still running the thing today. Why do I keep duncan at randometry.org in the "installers" alias? Well , because Duncan doesn't have his machine offline _all_ the time, and, besides, it reminds me that I still want to build him a server. Hope that helps. From sverma at sfsu.edu Fri Apr 16 11:32:25 2010 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:32:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF April meeting Message-ID: Hello! OLPC-SF will meet on Saturday, April 17, 2010 at SFSU Downtown Center from 10am to 2pm. Room 553, 835 Market St. San Francisco, CA See posting at http://tinyurl.com/olpcsf This month's meeting features a project by Bruce Baikie and a team of students from San Jose State University. Their project focuses on developing a docking/charging station for the notebooks. Other than that, we will have the usual. Software updates, school server queries, XO 1.5 units, and some new power management that's making into the new XO 1 software build and the XO 1.5 builds. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Campus Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ From bliss at sfo.com Fri Apr 16 12:38:53 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:38:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting Monday evening... Message-ID: <4BC8BCCD.1020007@sfo.com> Monday April 19th the SF-LUG will be meeting at Cafe Enchante from 6-8 PM (nominally). Hope that you all will be there. later Bobbie Sellers From sverma at sfsu.edu Sat Apr 17 20:04:14 2010 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:04:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? In-Reply-To: <4BC3C286.3060106@sfo.com> References: <288596.79775.qm@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC35ADD.9080802@sfo.com> <921485.54431.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4BC3C286.3060106@sfo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > vincent polite wrote: >> >> I agree. My point is look at how many cringe, or get depressed, at the >> mere mention of Microsoft, when there really isn't much difference between >> them and Apple. Do something because you like it, not hate something else. > > ? Yes my companions on TA-ML have lots of unhappiness over the > behavior of these companies but I doubt any real hate. ?That is for > the computer religionists who are stuck in the past. ?The Amiga > was a lot more fun than the MS-DOS machines and > way ahead of Windows until long after CBM turned up its toes. > > ?Actually a lot of Amigans who know the story hate the people who > liquidated the company. An investor who took the company away > from the founder and his henchman, a CEO type. ?The CEO was just > following the chief shareholder's directions. > ? I used to write articles about it for the Amiga UG newsletter. > > ? Anyway on Linux I don't expect Linus Torwalds to stab anyone > in the back and make a platform obsolete. > Even if he wanted to, Linus *cannot* stab anyone in the back and make the platform obsolete :-) Sameer > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Bobbie Sellers >> *To:* SF-LUG >> *Sent:* Mon, April 12, 2010 10:39:41 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [sf-lug] Time to hate Apple? >> >> vincent polite wrote: >> >> ? ? ? ?In a very large typeface >> >> ?An Adobe employee says it like it is: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888 >> >> ?Definitely overdue to dislike Apple for business practices that sank >> the clone makers >> and numerous other partners over the years. ?Hating a brand name or >> anything else >> is a waste of energy better used to further your own ends. >> > >> > >> > ?Is Apple the Most Admired Company? It depends who you ask: >> > >> > ?http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tr-out-loud/?p=1809&tag=leftCol;post-1824 >> > >> > >> > ?> > > >> > > > ? ? ? ?later > ? ? ? ?bliss > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From john_re at fastmail.us Sat Apr 17 22:09:11 2010 From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re) Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 22:09:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux at BerkeleyTIP-Global meeting on Sunday April 18 12N-3P, & April 27 Message-ID: <1271567351.5644.1370527791@webmail.messagingengine.com> Join via VOIP or come to Berkeley http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/voice-voip-conferencing FSCafe at Moffitt, opens 1pm, but can connect from outside at 12N. Hot topics: Ubuntu 10.04, Free Culuture, VOIP, Set up the web server & mail list & asterisk/freeswitch on the BTIP box with Ubuntu 10.04? Tues April 27 5-6P VOIP online meeting also. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/ Join the mail list, tell us what you're interested in. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/mailing-lists From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 19 13:34:41 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 13:34:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: TOMORROW Tu 2010-04-20: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation Message-ID: <20100419133441.202869o3y3yvwvhc@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG: TOMORROW Tu 2010-04-20: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation REMINDER: TOMORROW Tuesday 2010-04-20: ------------------------------ Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-04-20 Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-04-20 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: Sameer Verma[1] on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC)[2] Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation. This presentation will address updates from the OLPC project (hardware, software, networks, schools, teachers, children, parents, etc), its achievements thus far (what works and what does not) and where it is headed in the near future (yes, its still alive). We will also look at how various communities (such as BALUG) can participate in the educational, technological and social contexts. Profess by day, tinker by night. Dr. Sameer Verma is an associate professor of Information Systems[3] in the College of Business[4] at San Francisco State University[5]. His research revolves around the diffusion and adoption of innovative technologies. He also teaches a course titled "Managing Open Source" at San Francisco State University. In his free time, Sameer volunteers with One Laptop Per Child by organizing activities for the OLPC-San Francisco Bay Area[6] group. He also runs his laptops, desktops, servers, tablets, phones, media systems, and car music player on Linux. The toaster sadly remains unconverted (any day now). 1. http://verma.sfsu.edu/ 2. http://laptop.org/ 3. http://is.sfsu.edu/ 4. http://cob.sfsu.edu/cob/ 5. http://www.sfsu.edu/ 6. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_San_Francisco_Bay_Area So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, April 20th, 2010 2010-04-20 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ Door prizes? Giveaways? We don't necessarily have such items at every meeting, but we do often have giveaways and/or door prize items. E.g. at our 2010-03-16 meeting, over 14% of our of our attendees that donated $13 (and for which we provide gift of dinner and dinner/door prize raffle ticket) walked away with a brand new iPod shuffle 4GB Silver (MB867LL/B) [MSRP $79][7] courtesy of ScaleMP[8]. 7. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/ipod_shuffle 8. http://www.scalemp.com/ We will have a supply of Ubuntu[9] 9.10 "Karmic Koala" i386 CDs on hand for our BALUG 2010-04-20 meeting, made possible by Ubuntu California[10] and other contributors/volunteers. We may have other stuff too. 9. http://www.ubuntu.com/ 10. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From jim at well.com Wed Apr 21 11:10:02 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:10:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, April 22, 2010: From "Invent with Python" to Pygame Message-ID: <1271873402.6469.17.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, March 25, 2010: From "Invent with Python" to Pygame Tonight's talk is * From "Invent with Python" to Pygame by Al Sweigart Meetings usually start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: If time allows, discussion of Python features and techniques LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: deferred until after the end of main talk ..... 7:45 PM to 8:40 PM (or so) ................ * From "Invent with Python" to Pygame I'll talk about the book, which is available in full under a Creative Commons license at http://inventwithpython.com as well as the process of writing it. I'll also go through the last chapter, which is a light intro to Pygame, just to show off what Pygame can do. (from the web site: ) "Python is the new BASIC", "Invent with Python" is designed to teach real programming in Python. ..... 8:50 PM to 9:30 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, events, and other topics. Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the announcements and other interests. From bill at wards.net Wed Apr 21 12:00:06 2010 From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net) Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:00:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 04/28/2010 Message-ID: PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS: +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Date: |Wednesday, April 28, 2010 | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| |Time: |6:00 - 8:00 PM | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| | |Bayshore Technology Park | |Location:|1300 Island Drive | | |Redwood City, CA 94065 | | |Suite 106 - Training Room | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| | |Facebook: | |RSVP: |http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=114031178612316 | | |or mail rsvp at penlug.org | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Note we are now meeting on Wednesdays! Effectively this month, we will be moving to the fourth Wednesday of each month (except in November and December, when we will meet on the second Wednesday to avoid holiday conflicts). The meeting is hosted by NewlineNoosh. There is no sponsor for food/drinks, so please bring a potluck item to share. Agenda: * 6:00 PM Potluck snacks * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes * 6:30 PM Presentation begins * 8:00 PM Meeting ends The Eclipse platform - Today and tomorrow Eclipse is an easily extensible, flexible open-source integrated development environment that is widely used with Java, C/C++, XML and any other language you can name. The talk will include an overview of the Eclipse platform, describe its development process and explain how to add new features to the base by developing plugins and applications. The next generation of Eclipse, called Eclipse e4, will be demonstrated. Lars Vogel, Eclipse developer and contributor Lars Vogel is a developer, consultant, trainer, product manager and Eclipse committer. He is currently working as a Product Manager at SAP AG and as an independent Java and Eclipse consultant. He is a regular speaker at SAP and Java / Eclipse events and is known for his Java technology related website. RSVP Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you are planning to attend. GETTING THERE For information on getting to the meeting, please see: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting. MORE INFORMATION See www.penlug.org for more information. This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists: members at penlug.org announce at penlug.org sf-lug at linuxmafia.com balug-talk at lists.balug.org svlug at lists.svlug.org svevents at yahoogroups.com vox at lists.lugod.org Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes. From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 22 16:48:25 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 16:48:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Feedback desired on (draft) survey form (for "Working in the Business" BALUG panel discussion) Message-ID: <20100422164825.14523574befcdx0k@webmail.rawbw.com> Feedback desired on (draft) survey form (for "Working in the Business" BALUG panel discussion) BALUG's working on putting together a "Working in the Business" panel discussion. (for background on the general idea, see, e.g.: http://www.balug.org/#panel http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-March/000149.html http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-talk-balug.org/2009-March/004391.html ) Most immediately, we'd like any feedback/commentary on the "survey"/application form we're close to launching (at present, intending to have it finalized and launched by not later than 2010-02-26). We hope to generally capture "sufficient" information on the "survey" form, without it being too onerous to complete. So, any feedback, please let us know: balug-panel-2010 at balug.org (and it would be helpful to include "Working in the Business" in the Subject: header of replies) And (draft/preview only, not yet launched) URL to preview the form/survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?PREVIEW_MODE=DO_NOT_USE_THIS_LINK_FOR_COLLECTION&sm=U34QGzra9mwSQjTt8/JbJEZWDZWMEWQ6JAeGhHTTUYo%3d or: http://tinyurl.com/2aff7d2 Thanks in advance for your feedback. (If one wishes to have a "discussion" on/about it, please use the BALUG "admin" list: http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-admin-balug.org ) Thanks. http://www.balug.org/ From jstrazza at yahoo.com Thu Apr 22 23:14:19 2010 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 23:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Asus eePC not connecting wirelessly to a router Message-ID: <976800.65193.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Details: ? A friend has an Asus eePC model 900A; which I believe runs Linux.? He has a Linksys Wrt54GS router.? There is no encryption on the router.? His children can connect wirelessly to his router with no problems (using Windows machines).? My friend's Asus eePC can connect wirelessly to other routers (library and kids homes). ? The problem is that my friend cannot connect wireless to his own router!? Wired connection works fine on the Asus. ? The Asus can find other routers outside the house, but I could not connect because I did not know the WEP password for the other computers. ? I could not get into the Linksys router to reset it (didn't want to do a reset for fear that I would mess up something) ? I could not get into a command line to try the ifup command.? I see that when I tried to connect I would see the /sbin/ifdown ath0 command run, but it would seem to hang up on the /sbin/ifup ath0 command.? ? As this is a netbook, I couldn't use my collection of CDs like puppy linux to diagnose connection issues. ? Any thoughts? ? John ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com Fri Apr 23 08:02:57 2010 From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:02:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Asus eePC not connecting wirelessly to a router In-Reply-To: <976800.65193.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <976800.65193.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi John, I have seen problems connecting with Linux when the access point (linksys) was not broadcasting its SSID. Try turning that on first. If you don't want to do that, for the first connection from Linux, do it manually, entering in the essid (I use network-manager, right click the strength icon, then select Edit connections. You should now connect, and in the future, see the essid. Ken On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:14 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > Details: > > A friend has an Asus eePC model 900A; which I believe runs Linux. He has a > Linksys Wrt54GS router. There is no encryption on the router. His children > can connect wirelessly to his router with no problems (using Windows > machines). My friend's Asus eePC can connect wirelessly to other routers > (library and kids homes). > > The problem is that my friend cannot connect wireless to his own router! > Wired connection works fine on the Asus. > > The Asus can find other routers outside the house, but I could not connect > because I did not know the WEP password for the other computers. > > I could not get into the Linksys router to reset it (didn't want to do a > reset for fear that I would mess up something) > > I could not get into a command line to try the ifup command. I see that > when I tried to connect I would see the /sbin/ifdown ath0 command run, but > it would seem to hang up on the /sbin/ifup ath0 command. > > As this is a netbook, I couldn't use my collection of CDs like puppy linux > to diagnose connection issues. > > Any thoughts? > > John > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjdampho at gmail.com Fri Apr 23 08:13:34 2010 From: rjdampho at gmail.com (Robert Damphousse) Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 08:13:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Asus eePC not connecting wirelessly to a router In-Reply-To: References: <976800.65193.qm@web35606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On the Linux distro that came with my Eee, I had to press Ctrl+Alt+t to get a terminal window. On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Ken Shaffer wrote: > Hi John, > I have seen problems connecting with Linux when the access point (linksys) > was not broadcasting its SSID. Try turning that on first. If you don't want > to do that, for the first connection from Linux, do it manually, entering in > the essid (I use network-manager, right click the strength icon, then select > Edit connections. You should now connect, and in the future, see the essid. > Ken > > > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:14 PM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > >> Details: >> >> A friend has an Asus eePC model 900A; which I believe runs Linux. He has >> a Linksys Wrt54GS router. There is no encryption on the router. His >> children can connect wirelessly to his router with no problems (using >> Windows machines). My friend's Asus eePC can connect wirelessly to other >> routers (library and kids homes). >> >> The problem is that my friend cannot connect wireless to his own router! >> Wired connection works fine on the Asus. >> >> The Asus can find other routers outside the house, but I could not connect >> because I did not know the WEP password for the other computers. >> >> I could not get into the Linksys router to reset it (didn't want to do a >> reset for fear that I would mess up something) >> >> I could not get into a command line to try the ifup command. I see that >> when I tried to connect I would see the /sbin/ifdown ath0 command run, but >> it would seem to hang up on the /sbin/ifup ath0 command. >> >> As this is a netbook, I couldn't use my collection of CDs like puppy linux >> to diagnose connection issues. >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> John >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 13:49:42 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:49:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix Message-ID: <868010.91075.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> an old (Dell dd4500s) desktop that I've been using as a server at home is dying so I'm trying to switch over to a SheevaPlug on which I've successfully installed Debian Testing. Postfix has been installed and its /etc/postfix/main.cf has been edited to look exactly like the functioning copy on the old machine. Mail sent out using mutt never gets out! (although it still works fine on the old machine.) Here's the relevant data: plug:~# tail /var/log/mail.warn ....shows no problems plug:/etc/postfix# tail /var/log/mail.info .... Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: 67FE250411: to=, relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, try again) .. which suggests that relayhost is not properly set in /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 and as already mentioned this and all other entries are the same as on the functioning system (the dd4500s.) If anyone has ideas where to go next, I'd be very grateful for any leads. cheers, alex From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 13:53:45 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 13:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix (addendum) Message-ID: <203809.98776.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I should have mentioned that plug:/etc/postfix# ping mailout.easydns.com PING mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_seq=1 ttl=46 time=187 ms 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_seq=2 ttl=46 time=134 ms 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_seq=3 ttl=46 time=172 ms 64 bytes from mailout.easydns.com (64.68.200.141): icmp_seq=4 ttl=46 time=188 ms ^C works fine. So I'm assuming it isn't a resolve issue as the error message implies. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Alex Kleider wrote: > From: Alex Kleider > Subject: mutt and postfix > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 1:49 PM > an old (Dell dd4500s) desktop that > I've been using as a server at home is dying so I'm trying > to switch over to a SheevaPlug on which I've successfully > installed Debian Testing. > > Postfix has been installed and its /etc/postfix/main.cf has > been edited to look exactly like the functioning copy on the > old machine. > > Mail sent out using mutt never gets out! (although it still > works fine on the old machine.) > > Here's the relevant data: > > plug:~# tail /var/log/mail.warn > ....shows no problems > > plug:/etc/postfix# tail /var/log/mail.info > .... > Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: 67FE250411: > to=, > relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, dsn=4.4.3, > status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service > error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, > try again) > > .. which suggests that relayhost is not properly set in > /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: > relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 > and as already mentioned this and all other entries are the > same as on the functioning system (the dd4500s.) > > If anyone has ideas where to go next, I'd be very grateful > for any leads. > > cheers, > alex > > > > > ? ? ? > From akkana at shallowsky.com Sat Apr 24 14:37:35 2010 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 14:37:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix In-Reply-To: <868010.91075.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <868010.91075.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100424213735.GC2044@shallowsky.com> Alex Kleider writes: > Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: 67FE250411: to=, relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, dsn=4.4.3, status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, try again) > > .. which suggests that relayhost is not properly set in /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: > relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 I'm not an expert on this, but you might try relayhost = smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 That disables MX lookups, in case it's easydns's MX record that's causing the problem. It looks like it might be giving inconsistent results -- dig -t MX mailout.easydns.com is giving fairly different results for me and for a friend trying it at the same time. ...Akkana From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 15:44:57 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:44:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix In-Reply-To: <20100424213735.GC2044@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <712974.71892.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> thanks for the reply; Unfortunately what you suggested made no difference. The thing that makes this so frustrating is that the exact same configuration on a different machine works with no problems. While I was at it, I tried you suggested modification on the old (working) machine and your suggested change broke its functionality. (Another datum that might prove useful to someone.) Here's the specifics: alex at dd4500s:/etc$ sudo tail /var/log/mail.log Apr 24 15:29:56 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: daemon started -- version 2.6.5, configuration /etc/postfix Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/pickup[16532]: 0B34593D75: uid=1000 from= Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/cleanup[16548]: 0B34593D75: message-id=<20100424223835.GA16535 at kleico.net> Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: 0B34593D75: from=, size=40914, nrcpt=1 (queue active) Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/smtp[16551]: fatal: valid hostname or network address required in server description: smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: warning: process /usr/lib/postfix/smtp pid 16551 exit status 1 Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: warning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtp: bad command startup -- throttling Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: private/smtp socket: malformed response Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: transport smtp failure -- see a previous warning/fatal/panic logfile record for the problem description Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/error[16552]: 0B34593D75: to=, relay=none, delay=1.1, delays=0.07/1/0/0.02, dsn=4.3.0, status=deferred (unknown mail transport error) ak --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Akkana Peck wrote: > From: Akkana Peck > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 2:37 PM > Alex Kleider writes: > > Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: 67FE250411: > to=, > relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, dsn=4.4.3, > status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name service > error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not found, > try again) > > > > .. which suggests that relayhost is not properly set > in /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: > > relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 > > I'm not an expert on this, but you might try > > relayhost = smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 > > That disables MX lookups, in case it's easydns's MX record > that's > causing the problem. It looks like it might be giving > inconsistent > results -- dig -t MX mailout.easydns.com is giving fairly > different > results for me and for a friend trying it at the same > time. > > ??? ...Akkana > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sat Apr 24 15:53:11 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 15:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix In-Reply-To: <712974.71892.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <107536.76848.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Now this is getting even more weird! Although the log indicates a failure, the message from dd4500s with Akkana's suggested modification DID get delivered. ?how to make sense of that? Admittedly the error message is different than the one given by 'plug' from which an email has never left the machine. alex --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Alex Kleider wrote: > From: Alex Kleider > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, "Akkana Peck" > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 3:44 PM > thanks for the reply; Unfortunately > what you suggested made no difference. > The thing that makes this so frustrating is that the exact > same configuration on a different machine works with no > problems. > While I was at it, I tried you suggested modification on > the old (working) machine and your suggested change broke > its functionality. (Another datum that might prove useful to > someone.) Here's the specifics: > > alex at dd4500s:/etc$ sudo tail /var/log/mail.log > Apr 24 15:29:56 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: daemon > started -- version 2.6.5, configuration /etc/postfix > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/pickup[16532]: 0B34593D75: > uid=1000 from= > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/cleanup[16548]: 0B34593D75: > message-id=<20100424223835.GA16535 at kleico.net> > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: 0B34593D75: > from=, > size=40914, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/smtp[16551]: fatal: valid > hostname or network address required in server description: > smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: warning: > process /usr/lib/postfix/smtp pid 16551 exit status 1 > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: warning: > /usr/lib/postfix/smtp: bad command startup -- throttling > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: > private/smtp socket: malformed response > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: > transport smtp failure -- see a previous warning/fatal/panic > logfile record for the problem description > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/error[16552]: 0B34593D75: > to=, > relay=none, delay=1.1, delays=0.07/1/0/0.02, dsn=4.3.0, > status=deferred (unknown mail transport error) > > ak > > > > --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Akkana Peck > wrote: > > > From: Akkana Peck > > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 2:37 PM > > Alex Kleider writes: > > > Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: > 67FE250411: > > to=, > > relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, > dsn=4.4.3, > > status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. Name > service > > error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host not > found, > > try again) > > > > > > .. which suggests that relayhost is not properly > set > > in /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: > > > relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 > > > > I'm not an expert on this, but you might try > > > > relayhost = smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 > > > > That disables MX lookups, in case it's easydns's MX > record > > that's > > causing the problem. It looks like it might be giving > > inconsistent > > results -- dig -t MX mailout.easydns.com is giving > fairly > > different > > results for me and for a friend trying it at the same > > time. > > > > ??? ...Akkana > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From john_re at fastmail.us Sat Apr 24 22:09:41 2010 From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re) Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 22:09:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] DNS & Firefox fails on Linux, WindIE works only on older windows OS, ex not Vista Message-ID: <1272172181.2516.1371748925@webmail.messagingengine.com> I'm trying to get a Linux (KUbuntu) laptop with Firefox working on a network, INet supplied probably by ATT (The USA national phone company) DSL. It has a router/gateway, maybe including a firewall, about 3-6 yrs in place, which I can't physically access. Under Linux, it gets an IP assigned (either automatically, or with dhclient? ifup eth0?), but dig & nslookup fail. Can ping the gateway. Ping offsite IP = untried. Firefox fails to bring up web pages, IIRC because unable to look up host name. One key fact, I suspect, is that older ms windows InternetExplorer works (probably due to the os or Internet Explorer web browser, I'm guessing 2000-2225, like windows 2000 professional), but newer ones fail (for sure wXP professional fails, maybe a 2007 date. & I've been told, windows vista fails). In fact, the primary users of this network bought new Windowss Vista laptops, their tech failed repeatedly to get them working, & they returned them for older non vista laptops. Is there someone here with networking, dns, gateway, firewall, web browser knowledge who can suggest a clue for fixing, or further debugging, this situation?? Thanks :) ======================================================= What's the command to find out the currentt network settings? -netstatt? I think it says the DNS server has the same IP as the gateway, 192.168.111.1 .IP assigned to the laptop: .14 How doesFirefoxx find outIP addresses? Query theDNS server itself? Ask the Linux OS to find out? If that, how does Linux find out? - use a command like netstat/dig? Part of the built in networking stack? If not, what? - Older windows laptops work, loading web pages in IE. Newer laptops (vista definitely, maybe whatever was before that) fail - a (probably junior) sysadmin/tech tried to get some new windows based laptops to work, & failed, & they had to downgrade to older laptops, running an older windows OS. On a windows 2000 professional laptop, HP, Maybe 5-10 years old, IE can pull up web pages. "ipconfig" shows the gateway & assigned IP. But "netstatt" fails, timeout after 2 seconds, to get IP address. I'm thinking the router/gateway/dns system is talking to older Windows Internet Explorer directly, & supplying it the dns lookup directly, through an alternate dns access method than the standard method?? - I had a method to find the gateway box manufacturer, but forgot it. Was it by telnetting to it's IP, & that showed the manufacturer? What else could have showed that (underlinuxx or windows)? Traceroute? Ping?? Something else??? - Something is weird in that older windowsIEE are able to load web pages, but newer ones can't. - Anyone heard of, or anything about, or can figure out this problem, or any useful analysis steps/probes?? Thanks. ======================================================= SOME SPECIFICS ABOUT WORKING & FAILING LAPTOPS: Works: windows 2000 professional -Aproxx year 2000? HP laptop IEE works, nslookup fails, ipconfig shows .1 as gateway? doesn't show dns server old flag windows start button The strange thing here is that InternetExplorer works, but nslookup fails. = Fails: windowsXPP Professional - Compaq auto assigns gateway, nslookup fails, IE won't pull up web pages. New Vista? laptops fail KUbuntu 9.04 Fails nslookup, dig, &Firefoxx. Untested: windows xp Home Edition - SonyViao new flag green ===== Note: 6-12 months ago i did something that gave me a manufacturer or model name for the gateway/router, but I forgot what I did. Telnet to some port on it's IP? traceroute?? Do you have any idea of any likely command/tool to find out the name from the g/r? == Any help appreciated. Thanks :) From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Apr 25 11:20:17 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:20:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100425112017.36956lvi3zhki64g@webmail.rawbw.com> Here's a set of questions/answers/topics/keywords from a few different sources - including also an outline of topics/keywords I typically use as a basis of questions. Most of them are for Linux/Unix system administrator type positions, some are for manger positions. Some of the questions/"answers" may be outdated/obsolete, flavor specific, or somewhat or perhaps even completely wrong. I generally tossed in enough context to make each item generally sufficient to be stand-alone, then squashed them to a single line, randomized the order, and then reformatted to make reasonable length lines, added an emty line between each item ... so the formatting will be rather funky at least in places. Have fun :-) ... I also tossed in a fair bunch of comments at the very end stop-A Given the following answer these questions: cdrom is attached at id 6 and working fine. the 5.3 base cd with installation tools is in the player the /stand directory on the cdrom contains the following files: sashARCS, sasIP12, sashIP22, sashIP6, fx.ARCS, fx.IP12, fx.IP22, fx.IP6. the hinv of this system looks like this: Iris Audio Processor: version A2 revision 4.1.0 1 100 MHZ IP22 Processor FPU: MIPS R4010 Floating Point Chip Revision: 0.0 CPU: MIPS R4000 Processor Chip Revision: 3.0 On-board serial ports: 2 On-board bi-directional parallel port Data cache size: 8 Kbytes Instruction cache size: 8 Kbytes Main memory size: 48 Mbytes Integral ISDN: Basic Rate Interface unit 0, revision 1.0 Integral Ethernet: ec0, version 1 Integral SCSI controller 0: Version WD33C93B, revision D Cdrom drive: unix 6 on SCSI controller 0 Disk drive: unit 3 on SCSI controller 0 Disk drive: unit 1 on SCSI controller 0 Graphics board: Indy 8-bit Vino video: unit 0, revision 0, IndyCam connected What would the commands be for booting standalone shell and then standalone fx be if I then said that this system wasn't supported in the multi-architecture sash/fx (namely that the *ARCS* files didn't work)? - What commands would you use to boot standalone shell and after that standalone fx be if they were supported in the multi-architecture sash/fx? comm LSM Give candidate employment application, business card(s) and mailto address, ask for reference information, copy of resume Describe a situation where using NIS would NOT make sense among a group of machines. 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Volume Manager drwx---rwx 15 angel folks 1024 May 22 10:36 /people/angel RAID tombstones How do you solve: many users on multiple machines? You have been asked to setup a NIS Client server on a client machine named larry. List the steps you would perform and the commands you would execute. What command will remove this symbolic link? Situation: You have two machines named calvin and hobbes. You have received a HP4 SIMX postscript printer to be attached to the parrallel port device /dev/plp on calvin. The input filter for the printer is /usr/local/bin/psif The output filter for the printer is /usr/local/bin/psof Accounting and log information should be placed under /usr/adm The spool directory should be placed in the directory /usr/spool/lpd The full name of the printer should be ifsmhp4simx with a short name of ifsmps Create the local printcap entry on calvin for this printer Create the remote printcap entry for the printer on hobbes. 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You wish to export the veritas diskgroup "yubby". What command and options would you use to accomplish this? tar The pretend situation is that you have a hundred or so files in the current directory with '.F' suffixes and your new fortran compiler wants these all to end with '.f' instead. In any shell you prefer, explain how you would rename all of these files to keep the first part of each name but change the suffix to the lower case '.f'. sort What do you enjoy doing most? Least? sh/ksh/csh/POSIX shell, etc. root filesystem's gone due to drive failure, what steps do you take to recover beyond those for non-root filesystem? what would you like to be doing 2 years from now? 5? What's the sticky bit do? On a directory? A file? What file lists the name, type, and port number for socket-based daemons or applications? rename file What is the difference between using standalone fx and fx on a machine that is in multi-user state? How are they different and when would you typically use each one? Again, please use your own words and provide enough detail. When you run into a problem, what approach do you usually take to resolve it? If a team lead from another city calls stating a project is having several problems but the lead has everything under control. What do you do? How do you solve: lots of "little" backups on lots of Unix machines? What are the two files that need creation/modification on a Solaris system, to enable the system to use DNS for IP name resolution? The configuration files for a DNS server have just been changed. If "named" is currently running with a PID of 137, show the command and its syntax that will inform "named" to reread these files. cpio What are some of the common hazards/errors programmers and vendors make with SGID/SGID programs? What's the SUID bit do? What command(s) enable(s) Solaris to access newly added drives (i.e. disks added to a live system)? ======================================================================== fair bunch of comments: USENIX/SAGE Core Job Descriptions: http://www.sage.org/field/jobs-descriptions.html useful for a relatively common description of various "levels", and also as reference on sets of skills likely to be expected for various levels. I typically work from mostly from an "outline" of topics/questions/answers. Much of the stuff could be question, or answer, e.g. explain and when/where one would typically use such, ... or I give scenario or question to which that particular would generally be the answer or solution. Typical interview style :-> - I typically forewarn candidates that I'll ask a lot of questions, and don't feel at all bad if they can't answer about half of them or so - I tend to jump around and adjust difficulty level to a large extent, to try to find about where the boundary is between what they do, and don't know - makes for interesting/challenging interviews ... and also finds knowledge/experience level relatively quickly and fairly accurately - I also mix in somewhat randomly particularly harder, and easier questions, to see if I'm getting relatively consistent results relative to my thus far guestimation of still level. This technique seems to work rather to quite well on smaller scale (relatively small numbers of candidates). ... For larger numbers of candidates, some type of (quite) standardized test can be very useful - that can be quite effective at providing an apples-to-apples comparison across large number of candidates (typically not a "final" step, but often quite useful in screening/filtering and at least preliminary ranking). My "typical interview style" noted above, doesn't do quite as well on the "apples-to-apples" criteria, as no two candidates get precisely the same set of questions (but there is generally at least enough similarity in areas covered and noting of responses, to reasonably differentiate among candidates). > Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 09:50:16 -0800 > From: jim > Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > what are other standard interview questions? From a_kleider at yahoo.com Mon Apr 26 16:10:38 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix Message-ID: <291247.83558.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Although I don't completely under stand the problem and the solution, the problem has been solved thanks to Grant Bowman who kindly did some trouble shooting. Changing two files did the trick: /etc/hostname from? """ plug.sonic.net """ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? to? """ kleico.net """ the latter being what resolves to my IP address, the former what the postfix installer chose. /etc/resolv.conf from """ 10.0.0.2 """ # my router to """search sonic.net domain sonic.net nameserver 208.201.224.11 nameserver 208.201.224.33 """ Interestingly I was still able to ping the outside world with the initial configuration, but postfix couldn't cope. I guess my router was willing to forward dns requests coming from the ping command but not from postfix. So the problem problem was indeed to do with DNS which raises another issue which I'd like to raise but with another thread. cheers, alex --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Alex Kleider wrote: > From: Alex Kleider > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, "Akkana Peck" , alex at kleico.net > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 3:53 PM > Now this is getting even more weird! > > Although the log indicates a failure, the message from > dd4500s with Akkana's suggested modification DID get > delivered. > ?how to make sense of that? > Admittedly the error message is different than the one > given by 'plug' from which an email has never left the > machine. > > alex > > > > --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Alex Kleider > wrote: > > > From: Alex Kleider > > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, > "Akkana Peck" > > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 3:44 PM > > thanks for the reply; Unfortunately > > what you suggested made no difference. > > The thing that makes this so frustrating is that the > exact > > same configuration on a different machine works with > no > > problems. > > While I was at it, I tried you suggested modification > on > > the old (working) machine and your suggested change > broke > > its functionality. (Another datum that might prove > useful to > > someone.) Here's the specifics: > > > > alex at dd4500s:/etc$ sudo tail /var/log/mail.log > > Apr 24 15:29:56 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: daemon > > started -- version 2.6.5, configuration /etc/postfix > > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/pickup[16532]: > 0B34593D75: > > uid=1000 from= > > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/cleanup[16548]: > 0B34593D75: > > message-id=<20100424223835.GA16535 at kleico.net> > > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: > 0B34593D75: > > from=, > > size=40914, nrcpt=1 (queue active) > > Apr 24 15:38:36 dd4500s postfix/smtp[16551]: fatal: > valid > > hostname or network address required in server > description: > > smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 > > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: > warning: > > process /usr/lib/postfix/smtp pid 16551 exit status 1 > > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/master[16529]: > warning: > > /usr/lib/postfix/smtp: bad command startup -- > throttling > > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: > > private/smtp socket: malformed response > > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/qmgr[16533]: warning: > > transport smtp failure -- see a previous > warning/fatal/panic > > logfile record for the problem description > > Apr 24 15:38:37 dd4500s postfix/error[16552]: > 0B34593D75: > > to=, > > relay=none, delay=1.1, delays=0.07/1/0/0.02, > dsn=4.3.0, > > status=deferred (unknown mail transport error) > > > > ak > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 4/24/10, Akkana Peck > > wrote: > > > > > From: Akkana Peck > > > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] mutt and postfix > > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 2:37 PM > > > Alex Kleider writes: > > > > Apr 24 14:08:07 plug postfix/smtp[14441]: > > 67FE250411: > > > to=, > > > relay=none, delay=1159, delays=1139/0.1/20/0, > > dsn=4.4.3, > > > status=deferred (Host or domain name not found. > Name > > service > > > error for name=mailout.easydns.com type=MX: Host > not > > found, > > > try again) > > > > > > > > .. which suggests that relayhost is not > properly > > set > > > in /etc/postfix/main.cf but it is set: > > > > relayhost = mailout.easydns.com:20025 > > > > > > I'm not an expert on this, but you might try > > > > > > relayhost = smtp:[mailout.easydns.com]:20025 > > > > > > That disables MX lookups, in case it's easydns's > MX > > record > > > that's > > > causing the problem. It looks like it might be > giving > > > inconsistent > > > results -- dig -t MX mailout.easydns.com is > giving > > fairly > > > different > > > results for me and for a friend trying it at the > same > > > time. > > > > > > ??? ...Akkana > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sf-lug mailing list > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From a_kleider at yahoo.com Mon Apr 26 16:16:38 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 16:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor Message-ID: <848171.81201.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> A number of months ago, perhaps as much as a year, Rick Moen recommended powerDNS recursor. I took his advise and have been using it on the machine I want to replace but have discovered (thanks to "Imre Gergely" ) that "pdns-recursor uses swapcontext which isn't available on ARM." Is there a recommended alternative anyone can suggest? tks, alex From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 26 20:39:47 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:39:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions (chmod, perms, etc.) In-Reply-To: <245270.41791.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <245270.41791.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100426203947.98125akh9fslmc8w@webmail.rawbw.com> [Bcc: ] Quoting [Bcced]: > Is it safe to assume that the line (about half way down) > """ > implications of the following command? chmod 01777 /scratch > """ > is a typo? No. $ mkdir d && >>f && chmod 01777 f d && echo $? $ ls -ld f d drwxrwxrwt 2 michael users 48 Apr 26 20:28 d -rwxrwxrwt 1 michael users 0 Apr 26 20:28 f $ perl -e 'printf("%05o\n",(lstat(q;f;))[2] & 07777);' 01777 $ perl -e 'printf("%05o\n",(lstat(q;d;))[2] & 07777);' 01777 $ stat -c '0%a %n' f d 01777 f 01777 d $ Bonus question: Is specifying permissions to chmod(1) in octal form deprecated? And if so, per which standard(s)? references/excerpts: chmod(1) chmod(2) stat(2) perl(1) http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q2/007718.html >> From: Michael Paoli >> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions >> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 11:20 AM >> implications of the following command? chmod 01777 >> /scratch From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Apr 26 21:13:02 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:13:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions (chmod, perms, etc.) In-Reply-To: <20100426203947.98125akh9fslmc8w@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <245270.41791.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20100426203947.98125akh9fslmc8w@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20100426211302.527672r0xo6psagw@webmail.rawbw.com> And another "bonus" question (and a minor correction): Another bonus question: chmod(1) indicates (***** emphasis added): " SETUID AND SETGID BITS chmod clears the set-group-ID bit of a regular file if the file's group ID does not match the user's effective group ID or one of the user's supplementary group IDs, unless the user has appropriate privileges. Additional restrictions may cause the set-user-ID and set-group-ID bits of MODE or RFILE to be ignored. This behavior depends on the policy and functionality of the underlying chmod system call. When in doubt, check the underlying system behavior. chmod preserves a directory's set-user-ID and set-group-ID bits unless you explicitly specify otherwise. You can set or clear the bits with ***** symbolic modes like u+s and g-s, and you can set (but not clear) the ***** bits with a numeric mode. " Is that correct, or not, or "it depends"? Explain. Hints: $ mkdir d && chmod 7777 d && ls -ld d drwsrwsrwt 2 mpaoli mpaoli 48 Apr 26 21:03 d $ chmod 0 d && ls -ld d d--S--S--- 2 mpaoli mpaoli 48 Apr 26 21:03 d $ $ mkdir d && chmod 7777 d && ls -ld d drwsrwsrwt 2 michael users 48 Apr 26 21:04 d $ chmod 0 d && ls -ld d d--------- 2 michael users 48 Apr 26 21:04 d $ And on that earlier posting (below), there should be a line containing: right after the line ending with echo $? (somehow it got swallowed up on it's way to my posting it). references/excerpts: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q2/007721.html Quoting "Michael Paoli" : > $ mkdir d && >>f && chmod 01777 f d && echo $? > > $ ls -ld f d From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Apr 26 21:41:32 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:41:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <848171.81201.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <848171.81201.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100427044132.GX22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > A number of months ago, perhaps as much as a year, Rick Moen > recommended powerDNS recursor. I took his advise and have been using > it on the machine I want to replace but have discovered (thanks to > "Imre Gergely" ) that "pdns-recursor uses > swapcontext which isn't available on ARM." Is there a recommended > alternative anyone can suggest? Unbound. http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Network_Other/dns-servers.html#unbound From jim at well.com Tue Apr 27 08:23:13 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 08:23:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Asheesh Loroia on OpenHatch at Noisebridge Wednesday evening Message-ID: <1272381793.8826.86.camel@jim-laptop> The Linux Discussion Group meets every Wednesday evening from 6 PM to 8 PM at Noisebridge. Normally it's a free-form discussion. Tomorrow evening (Wednesday 20100428) Asheesh Loroia will be there to talk about the Open Hatch effort: http://openhatch.org/ open hatch is "an open source involvement engine" that lets you match your skills and interests with a variety of open source projects that need help. From bibayoff at gmail.com Tue Apr 27 13:53:28 2010 From: bibayoff at gmail.com (Steve M Bibayoff) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 13:53:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Richard Stallman speaking @ Wordcamp this Saturday in SF Message-ID: Hello, If anybody is think of attending Wordcamp this weekend in San Francisco: http://2010.sf.wordcamp.org/ RMS will be speaking on Saturday. I email the time when the schedule finalized. Also, the FSF will have a table there, and if anybody could help out for a hour so helping out, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Please email either me, or Jeanna Rasata, if you could help out. Thanks Steve ps. Please feel free to forward this email to anybody who may be interested. From a10cuba at hotmail.com Tue Apr 27 18:16:36 2010 From: a10cuba at hotmail.com (terry sanford) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 01:16:36 +0000 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 51, Issue 23 laptop ram In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: does any one need a 512 pc2700 chip for there laptop 10$ _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Tue Apr 27 19:49:30 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 19:49:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sorry - disappearing 0 (zero) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100427194930.17382ei7wiqhyn28@webmail.rawbw.com> Ah sorry, ... stumbled across an (eeewey GUI) email client bug (or misconfiguration?) ... got my lines containing only ASCII character decimal zero (0) (and also found likewise for some quite similar related lines) swallowed up and converted into empty lines. references/excerpts: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q2/007721.html http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q2/007722.html > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 20:39:47 -0700 > From: "Michael Paoli" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions (chmod, perms, > etc.) > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > $ mkdir d && >>f && chmod 01777 f d && echo $? > > $ ls -ld f d > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 21:13:02 -0700 > From: "Michael Paoli" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] favorite interview questions (chmod, perms, > etc.) > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > And on that earlier posting (below), there should be a line containing: > > right after the line ending with echo $? > (somehow it got swallowed up on it's way to my posting it). From jim at well.com Tue Apr 27 20:51:49 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:51:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [Job Posting] Sys Admin for Playdom in Mountain View & SF] Message-ID: <1272426709.7824.0.camel@jim-laptop> Senior Linux Systems Administrator @ Playdom -Multiple openings in Mountain View, One opening in SF -Salary range- $100-120K What we're looking for: ? BS in Computer Science or equivalent ? At least three year's Systems Administration experience, with specific focus on Linux networks and systems ? Strong understanding of Web-based technology ? Hands-on experience running and maintaining Apache, Tomcat, and MySQL. ? Hands-on experience creating web-tools and scripts for various aspects of system monitoring, maintenance, reporting, etc ? Hands-on experience maintaining MySQL databases with extremely large data sets, experience maintaining MySQL clusters is a plus ? Hands-on experience with scripting languages such as Perl, Shell, Python, PHP etc. ? Excellent organization and communication skills ? Ability to work an on-call shift when needed ? Software development experience is a plus ? Tech lead/management experience is a plus What you'll do: ? Manage hundreds of database, web, and tracking servers ? Oversee implementation and migration of upgrades, patches, code releases, and database changes ? Assist in the definition and development of projects designed to increase the efficiency and reliability of the hosted infrastructure Contact Annemarie: Amogan at playdom.com or apply at Playdom.com/jobs -- Annemarie Mogan | Playdom Staffing amogan at playdom.com follow me: twitter.com/amogan From jim at well.com Tue Apr 27 20:55:38 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:55:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [Job Posting] Backend engineer, SF, $90K to 130K Message-ID: <1272426938.7824.5.camel@jim-laptop> Backend Engineer; Mountain View & San Francisco, CA; $90k - $130k Playdom is seeking awesome Back-End Engineers to work with our teams to develop the next generation social games. What we?re looking for: * BS in Computer Science (or equivalent) from top program and solid record of academic achievement * Solid experience with Java (Hibernate, Struts, Spring) * Interest and proven skills handling extremely high-traffic, data intensive applications * Comfort with runtime complexity, caching, and load balancing issues * Personality to handle responsibility, collaborate and excel in small team environment * Organized and able to deliver projects on time * Nice but not necessary: experience developing social networking apps and a love of gaming What You'll Do: * Build applications that will be used by millions * Contribute ideas in a collaborative, supportive team environment * Work on a cross functional game team including product, creative and art colleagues Thanks and please send your resume directly to schetty at playdom.com -- Seema Chetty Engineering Recruiter schetty at playdom.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/seemachetty From gilgamesh33 at mail.com Tue Apr 27 22:03:14 2010 From: gilgamesh33 at mail.com (gilgamesh33 at mail.com) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 01:03:14 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Picnic + Geeks = Geeknic Message-ID: <8CCB4A73DB36927-1E5C-49CD@web-mmc-d02.sysops.aol.com> BBQ - Everyone is invited to Geeknic1 Bay Area, what is a Geeknic? A geeknic is a picnic for geeks. http://geeknic.org/ Anywhere there are geeks, a geeknic should happen. We are going to be meeting outdoors (something unusual for some usgeeks) and having a good time. We'll have burgers, hotdogs, and someother good grilling fun. We'll also have some vegetarian options also,vegetables shish kabobs (with or without tofu.) The goal is to alternate between different parts of The Bay. Youcan help plan for the next picnic in June. It will be in the South Bay, the next will be farther north. We would like moresuggestions for other venues. == When and Where == * Saturday, May 1, 2010 * 12:30 til 5:30pm * Heather Farms Park - 1750 Heather Drive Get Directions Walnut Creek http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en-GB&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=105891681206520758396.000484012eaa70cb586ba&ll=37.917871,-122.042302&spn=0.003072,0.004925&t=h&z=17 Once you are in the park, follow the Penguin signs If youneed a ride from BART to the park email ahead of time info gidgetkitchen org - or call Mark at 510 228-4646 or try the IRC Channel #gidgetkitchen on Freenode. Free to attend, bring a dish - http://www.facebook.com/events/edit/index.php?new&gid=57431734805&step=2&eid=100827139961048#!/event.php?eid=100827139961048 Heather Farms is a great location. Many things to do there. Nicegardens nearby, birds to feed, etc. We can also throw a frisbee or usethe redball to play a game of kickball. http://gidgetkitchen.org/wiki/Geeknic1 Hope to see you there! -Mark Sorry on the short notice, we are also planning http://gidgetkitchen.org/wiki/Geeknic2 for June. I was under the impression we had already had sent invites to you nice people at the start of the month. Hmm, better late than never :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Apr 28 10:25:37 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 10:25:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [Job Posting] sysadmin needed ASAP at Rapleaf, SF, $80K to 100K Message-ID: <1272475537.7824.19.camel@jim-laptop> Visionary System Operations Engineer (San Francisco, CA) Salary DOE ($80K to $100K) ? Role: Work closely with engineering team to architect and administer major growth of our datacenters,Build out distributed computing cluster, Design backup & recovery strategies for enormous data sets, Drive linux server administration ? Qualifications: Linux guru (or able to become one quickly), Avid learner of new technology, Dream of racks and racks of servers, Quick learner and real doer; err on execution over strategy, Desire to be an early employee and want to be a real owner in Rapleaf's future, Looks forward to working with A-players; too good to spend long hours with B-players, Should be easy to get along with, nice, fun, ethical, and low-maintenance, ? Perks: Choice of any laptop - Mac, Windows, or Linux, Medical insurance, 401k, Kitchen stocked with food, Work with some of the smartest engineers, Contribute to the Rapleaf Engineering Blog, Live and work in San Francisco - the best city in the universe ? At Rapleaf, we're only looking for people that really want to change the world. **www.rapleaf.com/careers to apply or email resume to jobs at rapleaf.com** Caitlin MacDonald | RapLeaf | Operations Specialist | caitlin at rapleaf.com Want the new Mac iPad? Refer someone and we'll send you an ipad or a Macbook Air if we hire them Looking for Amazing Software Engineers and Killer Sales leaders-www.rapleaf.com/careers From a_kleider at yahoo.com Wed Apr 28 14:43:51 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:43:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu10.04 release party @ the Thirsty Bear Message-ID: <119014.38261.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Grant Bowman tells me there's a party planned for tomorrow evening. "Be there, or be square!" ..as the saying goes:-) I went to one a couple of years ago and very much enjoyed my self. I'm going to try to get there again this time. From grantbow at gmail.com Wed Apr 28 14:54:03 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:54:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu10.04 release party @ the Thirsty Bear In-Reply-To: <119014.38261.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <119014.38261.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: > Grant Bowman tells me there's a party planned for tomorrow evening. > > "Be there, or be square!" ..as the saying goes:-) > > I went to one a couple of years ago and very much enjoyed my self. I'm going to try to get there again this time. Thanks for posting, Alex. Jono Bacon and Elizabeth Krumbach will be at the Thirsty Bear tomorrow as well. The event was posted to the new LoCo website. http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/93/detail/ The details for all the Release parties planned in the state are at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LucidRelease A link at the top of that page includes a video describing how to organize a release party which can literally be done in 10 minutes. If you feel like holding one, just reply to this list and see who else can show up. An installfest event is also being planned for noisebridge.net at the end of the month. Details are at: https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lucid_Lynx_Installfest Cheers, Grant Bowman https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam From jim at well.com Thu Apr 29 10:49:29 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:49:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] GWOS, BitNami, Zenoss, New Relic, OpsCode and rPath invite your organizations to participate in OpsCAMP SF Message-ID: <1272563369.7824.64.camel@jim-laptop> Greetings, IT Ops has undergone so much change due to the advancement in technology and also the reduction in resources ? where we?ve all been faced to do so much more with so much less. Our companies have organized a San Francisco event ? OpsCAMP SF ( http://opscamp-sf-2010.eventbrite.com/) which is free for anyone to attend. OpsCAMP SF takes place on Saturday, May 15 from 9am to 5pm. The purpose of this un-conference is to get system admins, developer and operations managers together and talk about hot topics that affect our day-to-day jobs. These OpsCAMPs have taken place in Boston and Austin, and have been very successful based on networking and problem/ solution sharing. It?s a free to attend event, and will be capped at 200 participants. All participants must register ahead of time ? preferably by May 12th so we can order breakfast, lunch and beverages for all who attend. If you?d like to read a bit more of what?s typically discussed ? check out this search on twitter: http://twitter.com/#search?q=opscamp The cool part is IF you attend, you can influence the topics discussed by proposing, hosting or provoking discussions. It?s really fun. You?ll meet some great characters in the space outside of myself ? Mark Hinkle will be there, Dave Nielsen, Erica Bresca, Botchagalupe, and hopefully you as well. If you are UNABLE to attend, we will certainly miss you. You can further assist this cause by promoting this event within your network ? by a simple tweet or email with the registration URL to those who?d find this interesting. Here?s a snip if you?d prefer: May 15 SF OpsCAMP Un-conference. IT Ops topics, networking and good food. Free to attend. http://opscamp-sf-2010.eventbrite.com/ Don?t hesitate to contact me with any questions. Sincerely, ~ Tara Spalding -- Tara Spalding CMO GWOS, Inc. http://www.gwos.com/ 415-992-4531 (direct) 408-234-5449 (cell) tspalding at gwos.com From shawnisalk at gmail.com Thu Apr 29 14:39:31 2010 From: shawnisalk at gmail.com (Shawn Lewis) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 14:39:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Part time help desk spot In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, folks, Since I'm gainfully employed, I thought I'd pass along this opportunity.. Cheers, Shawn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Letter Date: Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 1:53 PM Subject: Part time help desk spot To: shawnisalk at gmail.com Dear Shawn , I came across your profile on Monster and wanted to see if you might have an interest in a second shift weekend help desk position for a company I am working with in downtown San Francisco. The hours are 12:00 pm to 8:00 pm Friday through Tuesday. If you are interested, please respond with a Word version of your resume. If this is not the right opportunity for you and you would like to be considered for other things, please send a resume along. If not, please feel free to pass my information on to a friend or a colleague. Best regards, Dana Dana Fink Director of Staffing 973-746-0600 x106 The Glenmont Group Dana.Fink at Glenmontgroup.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/danafink www.glenmontgroup.com The Glenmont Group uses their expertise to provide staffing solutions to law firms, consulting firms and corporations. For additional information, please visit our website, www.glenmontgroup.com. Letter Value: 1CCE33-371FE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 29 20:16:34 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:16:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Message-ID: <20100429201634.882978sityp4ux44@webmail.rawbw.com> "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion BALUG is working to assemble panel (and moderator) for "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Should make for very interesting, lively, informative and useful discussion/presentation/"talk/debate". For more information, and also if you know someone you'd like as panelist or moderator (or are yourself interested), and/or if you have specific topics/questions you'd like to see covered by the panel, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT: http://www.balug.org/#panel At the present time we're ACTIVELY GATHERING INFORMATION ON POTENTIAL PANELISTS, MODERATORS, available dates, etc., to plan and coordinate this event. Please also do feel free to pass this information along to any contacts you feel appropriate that may be interested. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Apr 29 20:22:48 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:22:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion In-Reply-To: <20100429201634.882978sityp4ux44@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <20100429201634.882978sityp4ux44@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <20100430032248.GW22335@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu): > "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Does this phrase mean '_getting a job_ in the business'? The title leaves a bit unclear whether it's going to be a panel about jobseeking, or one about working in the Linux industry (to the extent one can say there is one). I hope you're not going to say 'both', because I don't think that would work very well. (My opinion, yours for a modest royalty fee.) From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Thu Apr 29 20:31:10 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 20:31:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG NEWS: 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip; & other BALUG news Message-ID: <20100429203110.16702shjpzquf2as@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG NEWS: 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris; & other BALUG news In this issue (details further below): 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion "slides" from BALUG 2010-04-20[1]: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation ------------------------------ Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-05-18 Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris[1] Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-05-18 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: Sam Bowne Instructor, City College San Francisco (CCSF)[2], Computer Networking and Information Technology Department[3] Many Websites mix secure and insecure content on the same page, like Facebook[4]. This makes it possible to steal all the data entered on such a page easily, using Moxie Marlinspike[5]'s SSLstrip tool. Sam Bowne will explain and demonstrate this attack. Slowloris is a very new layer 7[6] denial-of-service attack[7] created by RSnake[8] that stops Apache web servers completely with very low bandwidth--one packet every 2 seconds. The Apache developers were notified of this vulnerability and decided it was unimportant and not worth patching. Sam will explain and demonstrate this attack, and discuss various ways to protect your Apache servers. Sam will provide complete instructions so that anyone can easily set up both these attacks on their own machines. Sam Bowne has been teaching computer networking and security classes at CCSF since 2000. He has given talks at DEFCON[9] and Toorcon[10] on Ethical Hacking, and taught classes and seminars at many other schools and teaching conferences. He has a B.S. in Physics from Edinboro University of Pennsylvania[11] and a Ph.D. in Physics from University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign[12]. His Industry Certifications are: Certified Ethical Hacker, Microsoft: MCP[13], MCDST[14], MCTS[15]: Vista; Network+, Security+, Certified Fiber Optic Technician. 1. http://samsclass.info/defcon.html 2. http://www.ccsf.edu/ 3. http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Computer_Networking_and_Information_Technology/ 4. http://www.facebook.com/ 5. http://thoughtcrime.org/about.html 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osi_7_layer_model#Layer_7:_Application_Layer 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack 8. http://ha.ckers.org/ 9. http://www.defcon.org/ 10. http://www.toorcon.org/ 11. http://www.edinboro.edu/ 12. http://illinois.edu/ 13. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Certified_Professional 14. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcdst.aspx 15. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcts.aspx So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 2010-05-18 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion BALUG is working to assemble panel (and moderator) for "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Should make for very interesting, lively, informative and useful discussion/presentation/"talk/debate". For more information, and also if you know someone you'd like as panelist or moderator (or are yourself interested), and/or if you have specific topics/questions you'd like to see covered by the panel, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT: http://www.balug.org/#panel At the present time we're ACTIVELY GATHERING INFORMATION ON POTENTIAL PANELISTS, MODERATORS, available dates, etc., to plan and coordinate this event. Please also do feel free to pass this information along to any contacts you feel appropriate that may be interested. ------------------------------ "slides" from BALUG 2010-04-20[1]: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation Missed our 2010-04-20 meeting, or want to get a better look at or grab some information from those slides? slides available: http://www.slideshare.net/sverma/olpc-project-plan-update-direction-participation (copy also archived at: http://www.archive.balug.org/2010/2010-04-20/balug-olpc-100426233751-phpapp01.odp ) 1. http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-March/000149.html ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From bliss at sfo.com Fri Apr 30 16:24:05 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:24:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting this Sunday.. Message-ID: <4BDB6695.8080903@sfo.com> Hi Luggers, We will be meeting at Cafe Enchante from 11 AM to 1 PM nominally. I will bring along my damaged notebook keyboard and the story of its replacement for anyone who want to hear about that. Hope to see you all there. later Bobbie Sellers From bliss at sfo.com Fri Apr 30 16:51:06 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:51:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting this Sunday.. In-Reply-To: <4BDB6695.8080903@sfo.com> References: <4BDB6695.8080903@sfo.com> Message-ID: <4BDB6CEA.6010708@sfo.com> On 04/30/2010 04:24 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > Hi Luggers, > > We will be meeting at Cafe Enchante from 11 AM to 1 PM nominally. Left out the fact that it will be Sunday May 2, 2010. > > I will bring along my damaged notebook keyboard and the story of > its replacement for anyone who want to hear about that. > > Hope to see you all there. later Bobbie Sellers From grantbow at gmail.com Sat May 1 00:06:49 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 00:06:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Professors' Open Source Summer Experience - 5 to 9 July in California In-Reply-To: References: <20100501010534.GB6070@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: FYI, Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Karsten Wade" Date: Apr 30, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: [Felton LUG] Professors' Open Source Summer Experience - 5 to 9 July in California To: (Please pass on! I don't know enough faculty at local schools, your word of mouth is appreciated.) Have you considered the benefits of teaching open source participation in the classroom? More than teaching tools and technology, teaching open source is about giving students a chance to get hands on with real code in real situations. A chance to build skills and experiences that scale to fit the classroom. Professors' Open Source Summer Experience, or POSSE, is a week long class taught by open source community experts from Red Hat and the Open Source Initiative, for those who teach higher education or advanced students in computer science/engineering and electrical engineering (CS, CE, EE.) In this class we teach the skills to be "productively lost" through participation in actual projects. These skills are transferable directly to teaching open source participation in the classroom. http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE We're offering the first California POSSE in Mountain View, 05 to 09 July. If you or someone you know is interested, read more here: http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS POSSE itself is free; attendees pay their own travel, lodging, and expenses. To find out more or to apply, check out the program page and send in an application. http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS If you have questions, our general Teaching Open Source mailing list is used for support, networking, and discussion amongst teaching colleagues and open source experts: http://teachingopensource.org/mailman/listinfo/tos You may also email posse at teachingopensource.org for more information. You are encouraged to pass on this email to anyone or anywhere there might be professors interested in teaching open source. -- name: Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener team: Red Hat Community Architecture uri: http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki gpg: AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Sat May 1 15:35:49 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 15:35:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Linux Build Systems Lead, Alameda, $90K to 120K Message-ID: <1272753349.6749.18.camel@jim-laptop> Linux Build Systems Lead (Wind River Systems, Alameda) Salary DOE, highly competitive to industry Description: We are looking for a developer to lead work on the Wind River Linux build system, the Linux Distribution Assembly Tool (LDAT). LDAT uses GNU autoconf/automake and Makefiles, shell scripts, perl scripts, and rpmbuild, to configure and cross-build embedded target systems. In particular, we need an individual able to create and debug complex gnu Makefiles and scripts which make use of includes, rules, templates, and significant numbers of generated dependencies. A good understanding of how gnu make supports parallelism and how to create dependencies to support running many tasks in parallel is a must. Qualifications: 8+ years of development experience, with 2+ years of Linux in a development environment, especially embedded systems. Strong experience with GNU make with complex includes, rules, dependencies and debugging and GNU autotools (Autoconf/automake/libtool). Strong shell (Bourne/Bash), Perl and python scripting abilities, with practical C experience in a cross-compilation environment Hands on knowledge of GNU development toolchain, especially gcc for cross-compilation and linking and gdb for debugging, Experience with RPM package management, and knowledge and understanding of common Open Source software development practices. We are looking people to be leaders in this growing team in a growing industry, strong OSS skills and motivation, and who wants to make a difference. The Wind River Linux group has the feel and flexibility of a small company, with the backing of a large company (Intel). Plus, you get your own office in beautiful Alameda, with telecommuting options. Please send resumes/referrals to: amy.wong at windriver.com https://windriver.tms.hrdepartment.com/cgi-bin/a/highlightjob.cgi?jobid=1596&lcid=en-US From jim at well.com Sat May 1 15:37:14 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 01 May 2010 15:37:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Linux Userspace Developer, Alameda, $90K to 120K Message-ID: <1272753434.6749.21.camel@jim-laptop> Linux Userspace Developer (Wind River Systems, Alameda) $90K to 120K Salary DOE, highly competitive to industry Description: Technical leader responsible for the architecture design, implementation and integration of userspace packages? in the Wind River Linux product. This individual is required to work in a fast paced environment with dedicated and highly talented engineers responsible for the evolution of the Linux products at Wind River. He/She will be required to work closely with engineering teams, Product Marketing, Project Managers and customers. He/she must have the skills needed to elicit, understand and analyze customer requirements, propose architecture and high-level design, prepare detailed project schedules, estimate hours, and summarize project technical risks and be a technical expert who can guide the team towards success. Requirements: BS in computer science, computer engineering or equivalent experience, with 8 - 10 years of embedded software design experience with uniformly increasing levels of responsibility. Strong understanding and Linux and cross compile tools. Good understanding of GNU autotools and Proficient in C and scripting (shell, Python, Perl). Strong leadership skills. Understanding of the complexities of cross-compiling existing OSS software. High level of self-motivation and requires little to no supervision. We are looking people to be leaders in this growing team in a growing industry, strong OSS skills and motivation, and who wants to make a difference. The Wind River Linux group has the feel and flexibility of a small company, with the backing of a large company (Intel). Plus, you get your own office in beautiful Alameda, with telecommuting options. Please send resumes/referrals to: amy.wong at windriver.com https://windriver.tms.hrdepartment.com/cgi-bin/a/highlightjob.cgi?jobid=1600&lcid=en-US From jim at well.com Sun May 2 08:58:15 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 08:58:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [as seen on noisebridge-discuss mailing list] deep packet inspection tracking Message-ID: <1272815895.6749.45.camel@jim-laptop> """ Should be of interest to any of you interested in net neutrality. http://www.deeppacketinspection.ca via http://www.tvo.org/searchengine/ """ JS: in summary (as i understand things), deep packet inspection has to do with network devices that are installed on the primary backbone centers and that are designed to inspect ,for all data traffic that passes through them, not just the outer packet information but each of the internal packets as well as the payload information to determine the application for which the payload is bound. the issue regarding net neutrality is whether such devices can (i.e should) be configured to throttle individual packets based on their payloads. if so, what would be the criteria? the primary worry is prioritization based on fees: those entities that pay for prioritization have the effect that those that don't suffer slower pass-through. a point i haven't seen mentioned (yet) is that of security: if backbone data centers have the ability to throttle packet flow, this could inhibit the effects of denial of services, possibly spam, and destructive attempts such as those that could cripple the nation's electrical grid or emergency services. this seems a worthy consideration, but throws the entire decision area into the murky realm of policy. From jim at well.com Sun May 2 09:07:39 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 09:07:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [as seen on noisebridge-discuss mailing list] deep packet inspection tracking In-Reply-To: <1272815895.6749.45.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1272815895.6749.45.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <1272816459.6749.53.camel@jim-laptop> additional tho'ts: * i imagine that if my comments below have some validity there will be those more expert than i who will dissect and criticise. in my view, this is great! i hope so. * network devices that are capable of deep packet inspection are already being made. it seems such devices should have much appeal for managing priorities of internal traffic within enterprise data centers. such devices certainly are in backbone centers now, seems to me. how should they be used, and how to audit their use, seems the issue. On Sun, 2010-05-02 at 08:58 -0700, jim wrote: > """ > Should be of interest to any of you interested in net neutrality. > > http://www.deeppacketinspection.ca > via http://www.tvo.org/searchengine/ > """ > > JS: in summary (as i understand things), deep packet > inspection has to do with network devices that are > installed on the primary backbone centers and that > are designed to inspect, for all data traffic that > passes through them, not just the outer packet > information but each of the internal packets as well > as the payload information to determine the > application for which the payload is bound. > the issue regarding net neutrality is whether > such devices can (i.e should) be configured to > throttle individual packets based on their payloads. > if so, what would be the criteria? the primary > worry is prioritization based on fees: those entities > that pay for prioritization have the effect that > those that don't suffer slower pass-through. > a point i haven't seen mentioned (yet) is that of > security: if backbone data centers have the ability > to throttle packet flow, this could inhibit the > effects of denial of services, possibly spam, and > destructive attempts such as those that could cripple > the nation's electrical grid or emergency services. > this seems a worthy consideration, but throws the > entire decision area into the murky realm of policy. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From xolzscxux at yahoo.com Sun May 2 19:27:13 2010 From: xolzscxux at yahoo.com (Charles Holzschuh) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 19:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] the noob Message-ID: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi all I'm the noob who was at the meeting Sunday. I had a great time and look forward to going to many meetings in the future. Hope to make it to noisebridge Tuesday. From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun May 2 21:14:45 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 21:14:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the noob In-Reply-To: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Actually, I think Wednesday is linux night @ noisebridge On May 2, 2010 7:30 PM, "Charles Holzschuh" wrote: Hi all I'm the noob who was at the meeting Sunday. I had a great time and look forward to going to many meetings in the future. Hope to make it to noisebridge Tuesday. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Sun May 2 21:16:32 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 21:16:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the noob In-Reply-To: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: And of course welcome, Charles, I hope that u always feel welcome at sf-lug! On May 2, 2010 7:30 PM, "Charles Holzschuh" wrote: Hi all I'm the noob who was at the meeting Sunday. I had a great time and look forward to going to many meetings in the future. Hope to make it to noisebridge Tuesday. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at gmail.com Sun May 2 22:03:23 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 22:03:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Links to info on Red Hat dropping Xen Message-ID: I knew I read something about this. It was on lug-nuts at saclug.org list. Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brian Lavender Date: Sun, May 2, 2010 at 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [Lug-nuts] I did not know that To: General SacLUG discussing Hmm, it looks like Fedora doesn't have Dom0 support. I would imagine that it has DomU? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraXenQuickstart There is still the fedora-xen mailing list. And, a kernel for Fedora 13 Dom 0. http://fedorapeople.org/~myoung/dom0/src/xen-4.0.0-0.5.rc7.fc12.src.rpm So, perhaps RedHat is focusing its energy on KVM, which seems fairly evident. On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 11:28:12AM -0700, cpolish at surewest.net wrote: > http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/042110-red-hat-drops-xen-from.html > RedHat is dropping Xen. > _______________________________________________ > Lug-nuts mailing list > Lug-nuts at saclug.org > http://www.leibmanland.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lug-nuts -- Brian E. Lavender http://www.brie.com/brian/ "All too often, developers spend a majority of their time integrating disparate technologies, manually tracking state, struggling to understand JSF, wrestling with Hibernate exceptions, and constantly redeploying applications, rather than on the logic pertaining to the business at hand." - Seam Overview _______________________________________________ Lug-nuts mailing list Lug-nuts at saclug.org http://www.leibmanland.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lug-nuts From jim at well.com Mon May 3 08:23:07 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 03 May 2010 08:23:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the noob In-Reply-To: References: <903374.45419.qm@web52007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1272900187.7863.10.camel@jim-laptop> there are two linux-specific things at noisebridge: * tuesdays and fridays from 3 PM to 6 PM linux sys admin certification study group * wednesday 6 PM to 8 PM linux discussion, wide open, bring ideas, problems, anything relating to linux http://www.noisebridge.net 2169 mission st at 18th, east side of the street ring buzzer at the gate just north of the fruit stand, then up to the third floor. On Sun, 2010-05-02 at 21:14 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Actually, I think Wednesday is linux night @ noisebridge > > > On May 2, 2010 7:30 PM, "Charles Holzschuh" > > wrote: > > > > Hi all I'm the noob who was at the meeting Sunday. I had a great > > time and look forward to going to many meetings in the future. Hope > > to make it to noisebridge Tuesday. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From a_kleider at yahoo.com Mon May 3 21:45:17 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 21:45:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor Message-ID: <272618.52332.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Rick, for the tip. I've got 'unbound' installed and # ps aux | grep unbound tells me it's running. It's running on host 'plug' that has IP address 10.0.0.175 .. but it's still not actually being used for DNS! I can't seem to get the configuration figured out. If I instruct my dhcp server (also running on 'plug') to direct clients to 10.0.0.175 for dns, things fail. I would have thought that part of the unbound configuration would be to direct it to an outside DNS server (or servers) where it could begin it's queries but the documentation makes no mention of such an entry. http://unbound.net/documentation/howto_setup.html http://www.unbound.net/documentation/unbound.conf.html Any help would be appreciated. cheers, alex --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 9:41 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > A number of months ago, perhaps as much as a year, > Rick Moen > > recommended powerDNS recursor. I took his advise and > have been using > > it on the machine I want to replace but have > discovered (thanks to > > "Imre Gergely" ) > that "pdns-recursor uses > > swapcontext which isn't available on ARM." Is there a > recommended > > alternative anyone can suggest? > > Unbound. > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Network_Other/dns-servers.html#unbound > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From grantbow at gmail.com Tue May 4 01:23:44 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 01:23:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <272618.52332.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <272618.52332.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Read /etc/unbound/unbound.conf carefully for lines such as "access-control:" It says by default everything is refused, except for localhost. It also looks like "dig @10.0.0.175 www.google.com" outputs among other things ";; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: REFUSED" Grant On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Alex Kleider wrote: > Thanks, Rick, for the tip. > > I've got 'unbound' installed and > # ps aux | grep unbound > tells me it's running. > It's running on host 'plug' that has IP address 10.0.0.175 > > .. but it's still not actually being used for DNS! > I can't seem to get the configuration figured out. > If I instruct my dhcp server (also running on 'plug') to direct clients to 10.0.0.175 for dns, things fail. > I would have thought that part of the unbound configuration would be to direct it to an outside DNS server (or servers) where it could begin it's queries but the documentation makes no mention of such an entry. > > http://unbound.net/documentation/howto_setup.html > http://www.unbound.net/documentation/unbound.conf.html > > Any help would be appreciated. > > cheers, > alex > > > --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Rick Moen wrote: > >> From: Rick Moen >> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor >> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 9:41 PM >> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): >> >> > A number of months ago, perhaps as much as a year, >> Rick Moen >> > recommended powerDNS recursor. I took his advise and >> have been using >> > it on the machine I want to replace but have >> discovered (thanks to >> > "Imre Gergely" ) >> that "pdns-recursor uses >> > swapcontext which isn't available on ARM." Is there a >> recommended >> > alternative anyone can suggest? >> >> Unbound. >> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Network_Other/dns-servers.html#unbound From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 4 09:09:12 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:09:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <272618.52332.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <272618.52332.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100504160912.GZ1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Thanks, Rick, for the tip. > > I've got 'unbound' installed and > # ps aux | grep unbound > tells me it's running. > It's running on host 'plug' that has IP address 10.0.0.175 > > .. but it's still not actually being used for DNS! > I can't seem to get the configuration figured out. > If I instruct my dhcp server (also running on 'plug') to direct clients to 10.0.0.175 for dns, things fail. > I would have thought that part of the unbound configuration would be > to direct it to an outside DNS server (or servers) where it could > begin it's queries but the documentation makes no mention of such an > entry. There is such a configuration. It's a default. To be more precise, the daemon has an internal list of the 13 root nameservers that it relies on to find the rest of the DNS world, e.g., the top-level domain nameservers for .COM namespace, the domain-specific nameservers for linuxmafia.com namespace, etc. You might be used to forwarder-type nameservers that don't actually do the work of resolution themselves, but just send all queries off to a full-service nameserver whose IP is listed in the forwarder's conffile. Unbound _is_ a full-service nameserver, so all it needs to do its job is its internal knowledge of what IPs the world's 13 root nameservers have. Just in case the roster of root nameservers changes, which happens at long intervals, Unbound's unbound.conf file supports a 'root-hints' keyword, which can point to a list of root nameservers in standard zonefile format. You _might_ already find such a file referenced from your unbound.conf . Anyway, you might be thinking 'That's cool, but I don't see how it helps me solve my problem.' True, but I wanted to address your question. ;-> Also, you should know how the thing works. What you want to do is use a simple tool like 'dig' for diagnostic purposes, to see _where_ things are failing. So, for starters, login to the 'plug' host. You're now on the machine where Unbound is running. That host has (at least) two active network interfaces: the loopback interface has (as always) IP address 127.0.0.1, and one of the others, probably eth0, has IP 10.0.0.175. Let's send Unbound a query from the local machine, on each of those interfaces: $ dig linuxmafia.com @127.0.0.1 +short $ dig linuxmafia.com @10.0.0.175 +short You've asked Unbound to resolve 'linuxmafia.com' (looking up the 'A'-type forward-lookup record by default), and told the 'dig' utility to pass that request to Unbound via first the loopback IP and then the network-connected one. The '+short' flag is a 'Just the facts, ma'am' request to return just the tersest possible response, omitting much of the detail. You might want to also see what the full response looks like, without that flag. Among the details suppressed by the '+short' flag is any error-debugging information such as the reasons _why_ you are getting a null response, so it's good to get to know when '+short' is a bit too terse. For example, dig might be encountering error condition 'SERVFAIL', which means it got a socket to a running DNS daemon, which reported that it's sick and unable to do work at the moment. The 'dig' utility is really good for getting to the bottom of DNS problems, and also for just observing how it works. (Try the +trace flag, some time.) Many people are still being advised to use 'nslookup'; don't! That's really bad advice, because nslookup is buggy and gives provably wrong DNS answers in some cases. Anyhow, the answers you get to the above-cited queries determine where your problem is. If neither one gives an answer, then either Unbound isn't running at all, or something (firewall rules, overly tight 'interface' and 'access-control'-line ACLs in unbound.conf) is preventing anything from querying Unbound at all. Fix that. If you're getting an answer on the 127.0.0.1 interface but not on the 10.0.0.175 one, again, probably overly tight ACLs or such. If you're getting answer on _both_ interfaces, now you should login to your local workstation, the one you're trying to convince to talk to the Unbound instance on 'plug', and re-submit the non-loopback query: $ dig linuxmafia.com @10.0.0.175 +short (Oh, and make sure you can ping 10.0.0.175, just as a sanity check.) If you are unable to sucessfully query 10.0.0.175 via 'dig' from the workstation, e.g., dig encounters a timeout, then I'll bet your ACL list in Unbound's unbound.conf needs rewriting to permit queries from your local network. If the 'dig' query _does_ succeed, then your problem isn't DNS, and I don't know what happened, because you've just vetted everything all the way out, one step at a time. Actually, there's one way I can think of, that that might happen: Let's say you had a DNS-using utility like a Web browser already running when you configured your DHCP daemon to point clients towards 10.0.0.175 for nameservice. (By the way, did you verify that the desired IP information actually _is_ propagating out from your DHCP daemon to the client machine's /etc/resolv.conf file? If not, there's your problem.) User programs like Web browsers tend to have 'stub DNS resolvers' built into them, limited functionality DNS client software that's just a little dumb, and picks up data from your system DNS client configuration (/etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf) at program launch time -- and never revises it thereafter. So, your already-running Web browser would not have picked up resolv.conf changes from your DHCP daemon. From a_kleider at yahoo.com Tue May 4 09:47:39 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 09:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100504160912.GZ1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <637199.52971.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thank you very much. There's lots to digest and I'll get on it. cheers, alex --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:09 AM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > Thanks, Rick, for the tip. > > > > I've got 'unbound' installed and > > # ps aux | grep unbound > > tells me it's running. > > It's running on host 'plug' that has IP address > 10.0.0.175 > > > > .. but it's still not actually being used for DNS! > > I can't seem to get the configuration figured out. > > If I instruct my dhcp server (also running on 'plug') > to direct clients to 10.0.0.175 for dns, things fail. > > I would have thought that part of the unbound > configuration would be > > to direct it to an outside DNS server (or servers) > where it could > > begin it's queries but the documentation makes no > mention of such an > > entry. > > There is such a configuration.? It's a default. > > To be more precise, the daemon has an internal list of the > 13 root > nameservers that it relies on to find the rest of the DNS > world, e.g., > the top-level domain nameservers for .COM namespace, the > domain-specific > nameservers for linuxmafia.com namespace, etc.? You > might be used to > forwarder-type nameservers that don't actually do the work > of resolution > themselves, but just send all queries off to a full-service > nameserver > whose IP is listed in the forwarder's conffile.? > Unbound _is_ a > full-service nameserver, so all it needs to do its job is > its internal > knowledge of what IPs the world's 13 root nameservers > have. > > Just in case the roster of root nameservers changes, which > happens at > long intervals, Unbound's unbound.conf file supports a > 'root-hints' > keyword, which can point to a list of root nameservers in > standard > zonefile format.? You _might_ already find such a file > referenced from > your unbound.conf . > > Anyway, you might be thinking 'That's cool, but I don't see > how it helps > me solve my problem.'? True, but I wanted to address > your question.? ;-> > Also, you should know how the thing works. > > What you want to do is use a simple tool like 'dig' for > diagnostic > purposes, to see _where_ things are failing.? So, for > starters, login to > the 'plug' host.? You're now on the machine where > Unbound is running. > That host has (at least) two active network > interfaces:? the loopback > interface has (as always) IP address 127.0.0.1, and one of > the others, > probably eth0, has IP 10.0.0.175.? Let's send Unbound > a query from the > local machine, on each of those interfaces: > > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @127.0.0.1? +short > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @10.0.0.175? +short > > You've asked Unbound to resolve 'linuxmafia.com' (looking > up the > 'A'-type forward-lookup record by default), and told the > 'dig' utility > to pass that request to Unbound via first the loopback IP > and then the > network-connected one.? The '+short' flag is a 'Just > the facts, ma'am' > request to return just the tersest possible response, > omitting much of > the detail.? You might want to also see what the full > response looks > like, without that flag.? > > Among the details suppressed by the '+short' flag is any > error-debugging > information such as the reasons _why_ you are getting a > null response, > so it's good to get to know when '+short' is a bit too > terse.? For > example, dig might be encountering error condition > 'SERVFAIL', which > means it got a socket to a running DNS daemon, which > reported that it's > sick and unable to do work at the moment. > > The 'dig' utility is really good for getting to the bottom > of DNS > problems, and also for just observing how it works.? > (Try the +trace > flag, some time.)? Many people are still being advised > to use > 'nslookup'; don't!? That's really bad advice, because > nslookup is buggy > and gives provably wrong DNS answers in some cases. > > Anyhow, the answers you get to the above-cited queries > determine where > your problem is.? If neither one gives an answer, then > either Unbound > isn't running at all, or something (firewall rules, overly > tight > 'interface' and 'access-control'-line ACLs in unbound.conf) > is > preventing anything from querying Unbound at all.? Fix > that. > > If you're getting an answer on the 127.0.0.1 interface but > not on the > 10.0.0.175 one, again, probably overly tight ACLs or such. > > If you're getting answer on _both_ interfaces, now you > should login to > your local workstation, the one you're trying to convince > to talk to the > Unbound instance on 'plug', and re-submit the non-loopback > query: > > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @10.0.0.175? +short > > (Oh, and make sure you can ping 10.0.0.175, just as a > sanity check.) > > If you are unable to sucessfully query 10.0.0.175 via 'dig' > from the > workstation, e.g., dig encounters a timeout, then I'll bet > your ACL list in > Unbound's unbound.conf needs rewriting to permit queries > from your local > network. > > If the 'dig' query _does_ succeed, then your problem isn't > DNS, and I > don't know what happened, because you've just vetted > everything all the > way out, one step at a time. > > Actually, there's one way I can think of, that that might > happen:? Let's > say you had a DNS-using utility like a Web browser already > running when > you configured your DHCP daemon to point clients towards > 10.0.0.175 for > nameservice.? (By the way, did you verify that the > desired IP > information actually _is_ propagating out from your DHCP > daemon to the > client machine's /etc/resolv.conf file?? If not, > there's your problem.) > User programs like Web browsers tend to have 'stub DNS > resolvers' built > into them, limited functionality DNS client software that's > just a > little dumb, and picks up data from your system DNS client > configuration > (/etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf) at program launch > time -- and > never revises it thereafter.? So, your already-running > Web browser would > not have picked up resolv.conf changes from your DHCP > daemon. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From a_kleider at yahoo.com Tue May 4 18:55:00 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 18:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100504160912.GZ1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <180879.64178.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's working! Adding access-control: 10.0.0.0/8 allow to /etc/unbound/unbound.conf did the trick. Grant was pointing me in that direction but I didn't really appreciate what he was trying to tell me until I read Rick's notes on how to trouble shoot DNS. Thank you very much. Am I right in my assumption that what's in /etc/resolv.conf on the plug (the machine running unbound) becomes irrelevant? Should I change it to a one liner consisting of nameserver localhost and delete what was there before, namely: search sonic.net domain sonic.net nameserver 208.201.224.11 nameserver 208.201.224.33 ?????? Cheers and thanks again. alex a_kleider at yahoo.com --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 9:09 AM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > Thanks, Rick, for the tip. > > > > I've got 'unbound' installed and > > # ps aux | grep unbound > > tells me it's running. > > It's running on host 'plug' that has IP address > 10.0.0.175 > > > > .. but it's still not actually being used for DNS! > > I can't seem to get the configuration figured out. > > If I instruct my dhcp server (also running on 'plug') > to direct clients to 10.0.0.175 for dns, things fail. > > I would have thought that part of the unbound > configuration would be > > to direct it to an outside DNS server (or servers) > where it could > > begin it's queries but the documentation makes no > mention of such an > > entry. > > There is such a configuration.? It's a default. > > To be more precise, the daemon has an internal list of the > 13 root > nameservers that it relies on to find the rest of the DNS > world, e.g., > the top-level domain nameservers for .COM namespace, the > domain-specific > nameservers for linuxmafia.com namespace, etc.? You > might be used to > forwarder-type nameservers that don't actually do the work > of resolution > themselves, but just send all queries off to a full-service > nameserver > whose IP is listed in the forwarder's conffile.? > Unbound _is_ a > full-service nameserver, so all it needs to do its job is > its internal > knowledge of what IPs the world's 13 root nameservers > have. > > Just in case the roster of root nameservers changes, which > happens at > long intervals, Unbound's unbound.conf file supports a > 'root-hints' > keyword, which can point to a list of root nameservers in > standard > zonefile format.? You _might_ already find such a file > referenced from > your unbound.conf . > > Anyway, you might be thinking 'That's cool, but I don't see > how it helps > me solve my problem.'? True, but I wanted to address > your question.? ;-> > Also, you should know how the thing works. > > What you want to do is use a simple tool like 'dig' for > diagnostic > purposes, to see _where_ things are failing.? So, for > starters, login to > the 'plug' host.? You're now on the machine where > Unbound is running. > That host has (at least) two active network > interfaces:? the loopback > interface has (as always) IP address 127.0.0.1, and one of > the others, > probably eth0, has IP 10.0.0.175.? Let's send Unbound > a query from the > local machine, on each of those interfaces: > > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @127.0.0.1? +short > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @10.0.0.175? +short > > You've asked Unbound to resolve 'linuxmafia.com' (looking > up the > 'A'-type forward-lookup record by default), and told the > 'dig' utility > to pass that request to Unbound via first the loopback IP > and then the > network-connected one.? The '+short' flag is a 'Just > the facts, ma'am' > request to return just the tersest possible response, > omitting much of > the detail.? You might want to also see what the full > response looks > like, without that flag.? > > Among the details suppressed by the '+short' flag is any > error-debugging > information such as the reasons _why_ you are getting a > null response, > so it's good to get to know when '+short' is a bit too > terse.? For > example, dig might be encountering error condition > 'SERVFAIL', which > means it got a socket to a running DNS daemon, which > reported that it's > sick and unable to do work at the moment. > > The 'dig' utility is really good for getting to the bottom > of DNS > problems, and also for just observing how it works.? > (Try the +trace > flag, some time.)? Many people are still being advised > to use > 'nslookup'; don't!? That's really bad advice, because > nslookup is buggy > and gives provably wrong DNS answers in some cases. > > Anyhow, the answers you get to the above-cited queries > determine where > your problem is.? If neither one gives an answer, then > either Unbound > isn't running at all, or something (firewall rules, overly > tight > 'interface' and 'access-control'-line ACLs in unbound.conf) > is > preventing anything from querying Unbound at all.? Fix > that. > > If you're getting an answer on the 127.0.0.1 interface but > not on the > 10.0.0.175 one, again, probably overly tight ACLs or such. > > If you're getting answer on _both_ interfaces, now you > should login to > your local workstation, the one you're trying to convince > to talk to the > Unbound instance on 'plug', and re-submit the non-loopback > query: > > $ dig? linuxmafia.com? @10.0.0.175? +short > > (Oh, and make sure you can ping 10.0.0.175, just as a > sanity check.) > > If you are unable to sucessfully query 10.0.0.175 via 'dig' > from the > workstation, e.g., dig encounters a timeout, then I'll bet > your ACL list in > Unbound's unbound.conf needs rewriting to permit queries > from your local > network. > > If the 'dig' query _does_ succeed, then your problem isn't > DNS, and I > don't know what happened, because you've just vetted > everything all the > way out, one step at a time. > > Actually, there's one way I can think of, that that might > happen:? Let's > say you had a DNS-using utility like a Web browser already > running when > you configured your DHCP daemon to point clients towards > 10.0.0.175 for > nameservice.? (By the way, did you verify that the > desired IP > information actually _is_ propagating out from your DHCP > daemon to the > client machine's /etc/resolv.conf file?? If not, > there's your problem.) > User programs like Web browsers tend to have 'stub DNS > resolvers' built > into them, limited functionality DNS client software that's > just a > little dumb, and picks up data from your system DNS client > configuration > (/etc/resolv.conf, /etc/nsswitch.conf) at program launch > time -- and > never revises it thereafter.? So, your already-running > Web browser would > not have picked up resolv.conf changes from your DHCP > daemon. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue May 4 19:39:26 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 19:39:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <180879.64178.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100504160912.GZ1322@linuxmafia.com> <180879.64178.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100505023926.GC1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > It's working! > > Adding > access-control: 10.0.0.0/8 allow > to /etc/unbound/unbound.conf > did the trick. > Grant was pointing me in that direction but I didn't really appreciate > what he was trying to tell me until I read Rick's notes on how to > trouble shoot DNS. > > Thank you very much. You're very welcome. > Am I right in my assumption that what's in /etc/resolv.conf on the > plug (the machine running unbound) becomes irrelevant? Well, not really. It's a good question, and the matter actually bears thinking about. Brief review of context: Any TCP/IP machine is (or can be) a DNS client. Unix machines have client functionality tucked away inside part of the system libc (which is GNU glibc in Linux's case). The configuration files for that client functionality are -- on most Unix machines -- /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf . (Don't worry about the latter if it seems mysterious. Leave it alone.) Most people don't think about resolv.conf (let alone nsswitch.conf), because they either set it once and forget, or leave its contents entirely up to DHCP. However, it's worth remembering that _each_ machine has a client setup, which affects how _its own_ TCP/IP stack works -- and not anything else. That client setup thus affects only programs running _on_ the machine in question. Applying that general truth to host 'plug': If you tweak the contents of /etc/resolv.conf on 'plug', you are determining where the DNS queries go that are generated by programs running _on_ plug that make reference to hosts elsewhere by hostname -- DNS-using network applications. You might be surprised to learn that Unbound (like other nameservers) is _not_ one of those DNS-using network applications. Unbound doesn't use DNS client services. Why? Because that would create a chicken-and-egg problem. So, e.g., unbound.conf's references to machines elsewhere is by IP address only. But presumably you have things other than Unbound running on 'plug', or you might want to, at least, and you want to be able to use DNS services there. So, you wonder, should you tell 'plug' to consult 'plug' only for its DNS? > Should I change it to a one liner consisting of > nameserver localhost > and delete what was there before, namely: > search sonic.net > domain sonic.net > nameserver 208.201.224.11 > nameserver 208.201.224.33 > ?????? You could. The argument in favour is 'Hey, I like sonic.net, but my own recursive nameserver is the last word in really, really close, and I'd rather get local nameservice from, y'know, a really local source.' The argument against is: 'If Unbound is hung or not running, then all nameservice on plug will be offline.' You could make a good argument either way. One fence-straddling option would be to put '#' marks in front of the two existing lines referencing sonic.net nameserver IPs. If Unbound is ever not running, you just uncomment one or both of those lines, and you instantly will get local DNS services back. 'Hope that helps. By the way, you can certainly get away with 'nameserver localhost' in /etc/resolv.conf, because the static hosts mapping file, /etc/hosts, includes a stable and reliable definition of what IP the name 'localhost' should always resolve to (unless you screw up that file, which can result in some really puzzling problems, let me tell you). _However_, the 'nameserver' lines in /etc/resolv.conf should really point only to numerical IP addresses. Therefore, 'nameserver localhost' is a slightly irregular way to say it, avoidably making local nameservice dependent on the /etc/hosts file. The correct way to say that is 'nameserver 127.0.0.1'. From a_kleider at yahoo.com Tue May 4 21:29:58 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 21:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100505023926.GC1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <213308.96201.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> As usual, Rick, your reply was "meaty" to say the least! It certainly clarifies things. I do very much appreciate it. I won't delete what's in resolv.conf but will comment it all out and replace it with what you suggest: nameserver 127.0.0.1 Cheers and Thank You Very Much! alex --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 7:39 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > It's working! > > > > Adding > > access-control: 10.0.0.0/8 allow > > to /etc/unbound/unbound.conf > > did the trick. > > Grant was pointing me in that direction but I didn't > really appreciate > > what he was trying to tell me until I read Rick's > notes on how to > > trouble shoot DNS. > > > > Thank you very much. > > You're very welcome. > > > Am I right in my assumption that what's in > /etc/resolv.conf on the > > plug (the machine running unbound) becomes > irrelevant? > > Well, not really.? It's a good question, and the > matter actually bears > thinking about. > > Brief review of context:? Any TCP/IP machine is (or > can be) a DNS > client.? Unix machines have client functionality > tucked away inside part > of the system libc (which is GNU glibc in Linux's > case).? The > configuration files for that client functionality are -- on > most Unix > machines -- /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf .? > (Don't worry > about the latter if it seems mysterious.? Leave it > alone.) > > Most people don't think about resolv.conf (let alone > nsswitch.conf), > because they either set it once and forget, or leave its > contents > entirely up to DHCP.? However, it's worth remembering > that _each_ > machine has a client setup, which affects how _its own_ > TCP/IP stack > works -- and not anything else.? That client setup > thus affects only > programs running _on_ the machine in question. > > Applying that general truth to host 'plug':? If you > tweak the contents > of /etc/resolv.conf on 'plug', you are determining where > the DNS queries > go that are generated by programs running _on_ plug that > make reference > to hosts elsewhere by hostname -- DNS-using network > applications. > > You might be surprised to learn that Unbound (like other > nameservers) > is _not_ one of those DNS-using network applications.? > Unbound doesn't > use DNS client services.? Why?? Because that > would create a > chicken-and-egg problem.? So, e.g., unbound.conf's > references to > machines elsewhere is by IP address only. > > But presumably you have things other than Unbound running > on 'plug', or > you might want to, at least, and you want to be able to use > DNS services > there.? So, you wonder, should you tell 'plug' to > consult 'plug' only > for its DNS? > > > > Should I change it to a one liner consisting of > > nameserver localhost > > and delete what was there before, namely: > > search sonic.net > > domain sonic.net > > nameserver 208.201.224.11 > > nameserver 208.201.224.33 > > ?????? > > You could.? The argument in favour is 'Hey, I like > sonic.net, but my own > recursive nameserver is the last word in really, really > close, and I'd > rather get local nameservice from, y'know, a really local > source.' > > The argument against is:? 'If Unbound is hung or not > running, then all > nameservice on plug will be offline.' > > You could make a good argument either way.? One > fence-straddling option > would be to put '#' marks in front of the two existing > lines referencing > sonic.net nameserver IPs.? If Unbound is ever not > running, you just > uncomment one or both of those lines, and you instantly > will get local > DNS services back. > > 'Hope that helps. > > By the way, you can certainly get away with 'nameserver > localhost' in > /etc/resolv.conf, because the static hosts mapping file, > /etc/hosts, > includes a stable and reliable definition of what IP the > name 'localhost' > should always resolve to (unless you screw up that file, > which can > result in some really puzzling problems, let me tell > you).? _However_, > the 'nameserver' lines in /etc/resolv.conf should really > point only to > numerical IP addresses.? Therefore, 'nameserver > localhost' is a slightly > irregular way to say it, avoidably making local nameservice > dependent on > the /etc/hosts file.? The correct way to say that is > 'nameserver 127.0.0.1'. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com Tue May 4 22:38:57 2010 From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 22:38:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Richard Stallman speaking @ Wordcamp this Saturday in SF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, I went. rms has certainly gotten a bit better at speaking to younger 20-something crowds. The crowd was packed with Apple laptops, but he managed to more-or-less get them 'on his side' and get some laughs. A copy of the emacs manual auctioned for $290, which was cool. Anyone else see Karl F's presentation? Good stuff! Chris On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Steve M Bibayoff wrote: > Hello, > > If anybody is think of attending Wordcamp this weekend in San Francisco: > http://2010.sf.wordcamp.org/ > > RMS will be speaking on Saturday. I email the time when the schedule finalized. > > Also, the FSF will have a table there, and if anybody could help out > for a hour so helping out, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Please > email either me, or Jeanna Rasata, if you could > help out. > > > Thanks > > Steve > > ps. Please feel free to forward this email to anybody who may be interested. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From a_kleider at yahoo.com Fri May 7 11:25:46 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer Message-ID: <763239.14054.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I'm looking for a network printer for use on a network of linux computers. It'll get only light use and color is not necessary. Does anyone know what would be a good currently available candidate for the job? Thanks for any suggestions. From femtoghoti at gmail.com Fri May 7 12:04:24 2010 From: femtoghoti at gmail.com (Femtoghoti) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:04:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <763239.14054.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <763239.14054.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been enjoying my HP Color LaserJet 2605dn. I might we more then what you are looking for, but it has been good to me. Eric On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Alex Kleider wrote: > > I'm looking for a network printer for use on a network of linux computers. > It'll get only light use and color is not necessary. > > Does anyone know what would be a good currently available candidate for the > job? > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- "A careful man tries to dodge the bullets, while a happy man takes a walk." - Mark Oliver Everett -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 7 12:56:11 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 12:56:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <763239.14054.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <763239.14054.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100507195611.GP19509@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > I'm looking for a network printer for use on a network of linux computers. > It'll get only light use and color is not necessary. > > Does anyone know what would be a good currently available candidate > for the job? I'd give the exact same advice I've given before. http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q1/007599.html That is: 1. Jot down particulars of a half-dozen recent local http://sfbay.craigslist.org/ offers for used B&W laser or LED printers. 2. Research them on http://www.openprinting.org/printers . 3. Pick one that seems to have what you need, and avoids the usual pitfalls (GDI/Windows-dependent underbuilt crud, lack of sufficient RAM, lack of needed interfaces, bad open source driver support on account of either obscurity or a too-new chipset or an uncooperative manufacturer). The printer that was offered in March via the above-cited Craigslist post (asking price = $50) seems like a decent baseline: ethernet, PCL5e and 6, PostScript Level 3, 32MB RAM provided with expansion possible, USB, 21 pages per minute nominal. That's a _really nice_ printer for any OS, and was only $50. People seem to always recommend expensive new printers, sometimes with questionable open source support, when this question gets asked. I really think intelligently selected used printers are a much, much better idea. From a_kleider at yahoo.com Fri May 7 18:55:29 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 18:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100507195611.GP19509@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks, Rick. The Brother HL-2070n and the currently available HL-2070w, the one I'm leaning towards, aren't listed but Brother in general seems to have a very good reputation in the Linux community. I followed your suggested routine for a couple of the printers currently listed on Craig's but again, the specific models weren't covered on the www.openprinting.org site. I guess it's up to us, the users, to document our experiences for the benefit of others. cheers, alex (ps unbound works like a charm!) --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] network laser printer > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 12:56 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > > > I'm looking for a network printer for use on a network > of linux computers. > > It'll get only light use and color is not necessary. > > > > Does anyone know what would be a good currently > available candidate > > for the job? > > I'd give the exact same advice I've given before. > http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q1/007599.html > > That is: > > 1.? Jot down particulars of a half-dozen recent local > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/ offers for used B&W > laser or LED printers. > 2.? Research them on http://www.openprinting.org/printers . > 3.? Pick one that seems to have what you need, and > avoids the > usual pitfalls (GDI/Windows-dependent underbuilt crud, lack > of > sufficient RAM, lack of needed interfaces, bad open source > driver > support on account of either obscurity or a too-new chipset > or an > uncooperative manufacturer). > > The printer that was offered in March via the above-cited > Craigslist > post (asking price = $50) seems like a decent > baseline:? ethernet, PCL5e > and 6, PostScript Level 3, 32MB RAM provided with expansion > possible, > USB, 21 pages per minute nominal.? That's a _really > nice_ printer for > any OS, and was only $50.? > > People seem to always recommend expensive new printers, > sometimes with > questionable open source support, when this question gets > asked.? I > really think intelligently selected used printers are a > much, much > better idea. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 7 19:54:58 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 19:54:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100507195611.GP19509@linuxmafia.com> <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100508025458.GR1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > The Brother HL-2070n and the currently available HL-2070w, the one I'm > leaning towards, aren't listed but Brother in general seems to have a > very good reputation in the Linux community. Well, you can at least hope that those are sufficiently similar to, say, the Brother HL-2060, but the latter looks a little iffy (http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Brother/Brother-HL-2060). Concerning _that_ printer (and of course the HL-2070n and HL-2070w may be better), it says "works Mostly", which is not a ringing endorsement. Recommended driver is hpijs-pcl5e, which is open source and is an HP-written driver for printers that speak the PCL-5e printing language. The main flaw seems to be that it maxes out at 600x600 dpi with that driver -- though a remark _also_ says the printer comes default with only 8 MB RAM, and that such a low amount of memory doesn't give the printer enough buffer to image at the full 1200x1200. Also, with the hpijs-pcl5e driver, the printer gets 70 points out of 100 for speed -- again, OK, but not a ringing endorsement. Brother offers proprietary CUPS-compatible PPDs (drivers) for download. Results with those are not indicated. Part of my point is that you maybe shouldn't go by just general reputation of the manufacturer, because that's not going to help you in the short term if you have a printer from those folks that has driver problems. (It might help you in the long term, but waiting years for good drivers is not a great printing strategy. ;-> ) Brother HL-2070w is obviously a very recently introduced printer, and there is rather little written about its use with open source operating systems on the Net. If you luck out with it, great! I would not personally go for that. Really. > I followed your suggested routine for a couple of the printers > currently listed on Craig's but again, the specific models weren't > covered on the www.openprinting.org site. Glancing quickly through http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sys/ now. Used Canon imageCLASS MF3240 Multifunction Laser Printer - $50 (Oakland/Orinda/Moraga) In general, multifunction printer/fax/scanner/modem things have tended to be iffy. This is basically a glorified low-end fax machine with a USB port. I'm not even going to research it further. (Probably a fair price, though.) HP - P2035N - Network-Ready Black-and-White Laserjet Printer - $150 (alameda) Hello! Looks interesting. 1200x1200, ethernet port, 30 ppm nominal, 250 sheet feeder, 16 MB RAM, USB, PCL-something printing, apparently no built-in PostScript. Correct name (not given in the ad) is HP LaserJet p2035n. Review says this is a rather limited printer in that the 16 MB RAM (a real bottleneck) _cannot_ be upgraded. Bummer. You can probably do better (for $150, anyway), though odds are that retrofitting the latest HPLIP driver set into your distro will make it work. Moving along.... Computer peripherals: laser printers, mice, keyboards - $15 (foster city) Printer in question is "HP LaserJet P2015dn incl 2 paper trays" The "$15", of course, applies just to the keyboard. For the printer, seller says "$175 (retail $399)" http://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-LaserJet_P2015 says "works Perfectly", which is what you want to see. You get 600x600 dpi with the hplip driver. PCL5e and PCL6 print languages, plus PostScript 2 emulated. Parallel(!) and USB. No built-in ethernet, which sucks. Trays hold 250 sheets. If you can justify the $175 hit to your pocketbook, this would seem a fine printer. You'd want to keep your eyes open for a compatible JetDirect card available used or on sale. HP uses suffixes on its LaserJet models such as "dn" or "n" to indicate extra features, by the way. "d"=duplex printing, "n"=network port (ethernet), "t"=extra paper tray. So, the openprinting.org page about the P2015 _does indeed_ address the P2015dn. HP 4100N Printer - $50 (mountain view) Correct name for this printer is HP LaserJet 4100N. http://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-LaserJet_4100 says "works Perfectly". Network port (thus the N). PostScript level 3. Recommended printer is hplip, with which you get 600x600, but you can also use PostScript drivers, or lots of others. Holey moley, this looks like a nice printer. $50! I'd take it. Hell yeah. You can keep on going, and I'm sure there's lots more. I was only on the second page of sfbay.craigslist.org listings. > (ps unbound works like a charm!) Glad to hear it. From a_kleider at yahoo.com Fri May 7 20:37:33 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 20:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100508025458.GR1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <241027.3756.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Great analysis! I answered the 'add' and offered to buy it. cheers, ak --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] network laser printer > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 7:54 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > The Brother HL-2070n and the currently available > HL-2070w, the one I'm > > leaning towards, aren't listed but Brother in general > seems to have a > > very good reputation in the Linux community. > > Well, you can at least hope that those are sufficiently > similar to, say, > the Brother HL-2060, but the latter looks a little iffy > (http://www.openprinting.org/printer/Brother/Brother-HL-2060). > Concerning _that_ printer (and of course the HL-2070n and > HL-2070w may > be better), it says "works Mostly", which is not a ringing > endorsement. > Recommended driver is hpijs-pcl5e, which is open source and > is an > HP-written driver for printers that speak the PCL-5e > printing language. > The main flaw seems to be that it maxes out at 600x600 dpi > with that > driver -- though a remark _also_ says the printer comes > default with > only 8 MB RAM, and that such a low amount of memory doesn't > give the > printer enough buffer to image at the full 1200x1200.? > Also, with the > hpijs-pcl5e driver, the printer gets 70 points out of 100 > for speed -- > again, OK, but not a ringing endorsement. > > Brother offers proprietary CUPS-compatible PPDs (drivers) > for download. > Results with those are not indicated. > > Part of my point is that you maybe shouldn't go by just > general > reputation of the manufacturer, because that's not going to > help you in > the short term if you have a printer from those folks that > has driver > problems.? (It might help you in the long term, but > waiting years for > good drivers is not a great printing strategy.? > ;->? ) > > > Brother HL-2070w is obviously a very recently introduced > printer, and > there is rather little written about its use with open > source operating > systems on the Net.? If you luck out with it, > great!? I would not > personally go for that.? Really. > > > > > I followed your suggested routine for a couple of the > printers > > currently listed on Craig's but again, the specific > models weren't > > covered on the www.openprinting.org site. > > Glancing quickly through http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sys/ now. > > ? Used Canon imageCLASS MF3240 Multifunction Laser > Printer - $50 > ? (Oakland/Orinda/Moraga) > > In general, multifunction printer/fax/scanner/modem things > have tended > to be iffy.? This is basically a glorified low-end fax > machine with a > USB port.? I'm not even going to research it > further.? (Probably a fair > price, though.) > > ? HP - P2035N - Network-Ready Black-and-White Laserjet > Printer - $150 > ? (alameda) > > Hello!? Looks interesting. > > 1200x1200, ethernet port, 30 ppm nominal, 250 sheet feeder, > 16 MB RAM, > USB, PCL-something printing, apparently no built-in > PostScript.? > Correct name (not given in the ad) is HP LaserJet p2035n. > > Review says this is a rather limited printer in that the 16 > MB RAM > (a real bottleneck) _cannot_ be upgraded.? > Bummer.? You can probably > do better (for $150, anyway), though odds are that > retrofitting the > latest HPLIP driver set into your distro will make it > work. > > Moving along.... > > > > ? Computer peripherals: laser printers, mice, > keyboards - $15 (foster > ? city) > > Printer in question is "HP LaserJet P2015dn incl 2 paper > trays" > The "$15", of course, applies just to the keyboard.? > For the printer, > seller says "$175 (retail $399)" > > http://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-LaserJet_P2015 > says "works > Perfectly", which is what you want to see.? You get > 600x600 dpi with the > hplip driver.? PCL5e and PCL6 print languages, plus > PostScript 2 > emulated.? Parallel(!) and USB.? No built-in > ethernet, which sucks. > Trays hold 250 sheets. > > If you can justify the $175 hit to your pocketbook, this > would seem a > fine printer.? You'd want to keep your eyes open for a > compatible > JetDirect card available used or on sale. > > HP uses suffixes on its LaserJet models such as "dn" or "n" > to indicate > extra features, by the way.? "d"=duplex printing, > "n"=network port > (ethernet), "t"=extra paper tray.? So, the > openprinting.org page about > the P2015 _does indeed_ address the P2015dn. > > > > > ???HP 4100N Printer - $50 (mountain view) > > Correct name for this printer is HP LaserJet 4100N. > http://www.openprinting.org/printer/HP/HP-LaserJet_4100 > says "works > Perfectly".? Network port (thus the N).? > PostScript level 3. > Recommended printer is hplip, with which you get 600x600, > but you can > also use PostScript drivers, or lots of others.? Holey > moley, this > looks like a nice printer.? $50!? I'd take > it.? Hell yeah. > > You can keep on going, and I'm sure there's lots > more.? I was only on > the second page of sfbay.craigslist.org listings. > > > > (ps unbound works like a charm!) > > Glad to hear it. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From akkana at shallowsky.com Fri May 7 20:54:38 2010 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 20:54:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100507195611.GP19509@linuxmafia.com> <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> Alex Kleider writes: > The Brother HL-2070n and the currently available HL-2070w, the one > I'm leaning towards, aren't listed but Brother in general seems to > have a very good reputation in the Linux community. I followed We have a Brother 2070N and it works great. CUPS sees it and autoconfigures it, no additional work required. It's also incredibly stingy on ink -- I think it took two years for the initial starter cartridge (which is nowhere near full) to run out. I think ours is about three years old now, and it's starting to have some feed problems -- sometimes the first page after the printer is powered on gets stuck or won't feed properly and we have to fish it out and try again. That's too bad but seems to be par for the course with cheap home printers -- my HP inkjet does the same thing, and it's a lot newer than the Brother. I'm surprised the 2070N doesn't google better -- I've posted about it on SVLUG, and seen other people post praise for it too. ...Akkana From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 7 21:13:22 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 21:13:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> References: <20100507195611.GP19509@linuxmafia.com> <74685.25745.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20100508041322.GX19509@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > We have a Brother 2070N and it works great. CUPS sees it and > autoconfigures it, no additional work required. It's also incredibly > stingy on ink -- I think it took two years for the initial starter > cartridge (which is nowhere near full) to run out. I think ours is > about three years old now, and it's starting to have some feed > problems -- sometimes the first page after the printer is powered > on gets stuck or won't feed properly and we have to fish it out and > try again. That's too bad but seems to be par for the course with > cheap home printers -- my HP inkjet does the same thing, and it's a > lot newer than the Brother. > > I'm surprised the 2070N doesn't google better -- I've posted about > it on SVLUG, and seen other people post praise for it too. Well, we're all now helping to fix that. ;-> Thanks for the assist! From a_kleider at yahoo.com Fri May 7 21:26:28 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 21:26:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100508041322.GX19509@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <22228.43358.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> now the task is to get this info onto the web site! Do you think that it's reasonable to assume that the more recent version with wireless capability will work as well (when connected by wire) as the N version? ak --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] network laser printer > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 9:13 PM > Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > > > We have a Brother 2070N and it works great.? CUPS > sees it and > > autoconfigures it, no additional work required. It's > also incredibly > > stingy on ink -- I think it took two years for the > initial starter > > cartridge (which is nowhere near full) to run out. I > think ours is > > about three years old now, and it's starting to have > some feed > > problems -- sometimes the first page after the printer > is powered > > on gets stuck or won't feed properly and we have to > fish it out and > > try again. That's too bad but seems to be par for the > course with > > cheap home printers -- my HP inkjet does the same > thing, and it's a > > lot newer than the Brother. > > > > I'm surprised the 2070N doesn't google better -- I've > posted about > > it on SVLUG, and seen other people post praise for it > too. > > Well, we're all now helping to fix that.? ;-> > > Thanks for the assist! > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat May 8 14:20:42 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:20:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <22228.43358.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100508041322.GX19509@linuxmafia.com> <22228.43358.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100508212042.GT1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Do you think that it's reasonable to assume that the more recent > version with wireless capability will work as well (when connected by > wire) as the N version? Well, I would think so, yeah. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat May 8 14:40:38 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 8 May 2010 14:40:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <241027.3756.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100508025458.GR1322@linuxmafia.com> <241027.3756.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100508214038.GW1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Great analysis! I answered the 'add' and offered to buy it. Again, you're very welcome. I hope you got my point that doing that kind of analysis isn't really very difficult. It just takes a little time to read and Web-search the listings, and compare information on them with what's on file at the openprinting.org database. It really amazes me that, when people on mailing lists ask 'What printer should I get for Linux?' and I recommend browing local listings for a good used one, I tend to hear 'Wait, what?' From nbs at sonic.net Mon May 10 10:07:20 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 10:07:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, May 17: "uCLinux (Microcontroller Linux)" Message-ID: <201005101707.o4AH7Klp032735@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding its next meeting on: Monday May 17, 2010 7:00pm - 9:00pm The meeting will be held at: Explorit Science Center (Mace Ranch Facility) 3141 5th Street Davis, California 95616 Presentation: ??Clinux (MicroController Linux) Presented by: Adam Yergovich, JK microsystems, Inc. of Davis ??Clinux, which stands for "MicroController Linux", was a fork of the Linux kernel for microcontrollers (embedded systems) which lack memory management units (MMUs). It has since been integrated into the main line of Linux kernel development. It supports numerous architectures, including ARM, m68k, Hitachi H8, MIPS and others. JK microsystems of Davis specializes in DOS-based single board computers and ARM Linux microcontrollers for data acquisition, industrial control and networking. For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/explorit/ About LUGOD: The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From a_kleider at yahoo.com Mon May 10 18:04:43 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 18:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <307660.74694.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Follow up on the printer: Following the protocol recommended (and actually carried out) by Rick, I decided upon an HP Laserjet 4100N offered on Craigs List for $50. It was sold to me by a nice Russian guy called Paul, who swaps out hardware for large companies and he has a ware house full of printers (lots more of these as well.) His contact info is 650-996-5829, vitalxs at gmail.com. His place is in Mountain View just off 101 at the hwy85/Shoreline exit. The printer is now up and running 'serving' my network. {One small thing that I learned: for the network (tcp/ip) configuration options to appear on the EIO configuration menu, the printer has to be already connected to the network during power up. The options didn't show up after my first power up because I hadn't plugged in my ethernet cable until afterwards. A power cycle solved the problem. I have been assuming that a print server must have a fixed IP but now I'm not so sure. This one has a DHCP client (which I disabled) but I'm now beginning to think that CUPS can 'find' it's printer by means other than knowing its IP address (part of the IPP protocol probably.)} This seems like a pretty good deal so I thought I'd share the experience with the list. --- On Fri, 5/7/10, Akkana Peck wrote: > From: Akkana Peck > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] network laser printer > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Friday, May 7, 2010, 8:54 PM > Alex Kleider writes: > > The Brother HL-2070n and the currently available > HL-2070w, the one > > I'm leaning towards, aren't listed but Brother in > general seems to > > have a very good reputation in the Linux community. I > followed > > We have a Brother 2070N and it works great.? CUPS sees > it and > autoconfigures it, no additional work required. It's also > incredibly > stingy on ink -- I think it took two years for the initial > starter > cartridge (which is nowhere near full) to run out. I think > ours is > about three years old now, and it's starting to have some > feed > problems -- sometimes the first page after the printer is > powered > on gets stuck or won't feed properly and we have to fish it > out and > try again. That's too bad but seems to be par for the > course with > cheap home printers -- my HP inkjet does the same thing, > and it's a > lot newer than the Brother. > > I'm surprised the 2070N doesn't google better -- I've > posted about > it on SVLUG, and seen other people post praise for it too. > > ??? ...Akkana > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed May 12 09:44:43 2010 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 09:44:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF May meeting: Afghanistan and Nepal Message-ID: Also posted at http://tinyurl.com/olpc-sf We will meet at SFSU Downtown Center from 10 am to 2pm on May 15. Carol Ruth Silver, who recently returned from Afghanistan and Nepal, will talk about the deployments there. We'll also do the usual event updates with new builds for XO-1, progress with XO 1.5 and school server hardware progress. What: OLPC-SF May 2010 meeting OLPC-SF will meet on May 15, 2010. Items on the agenda: * Meet and greet - 10:00 am to 10:30 am * Carol Ruth Silver: OLPC Afghanistan and Nepal deployments - 10:30 am to 11:30 am * XO updates - 11:30 am to 12:00 pm * Other updates/discussions - 12:00 pm to 2:00 pm * OLPC Realness event. * XO 1.5 effort. * Fedora 11 on XO-1. * School server and content libraries. * Sugar on a Stick v3 - Mirabelle. When: Saturday, May 15, 2010. * 10 am to 2 pm Where: Room 553, SF State Downtown campus (835 Market St., San Francisco,CA, 94103). Note that this location is NOT the main campus. This is the same building as the new Westfield mall that houses Bloomingdale's. Look for the SFSU banner on Market St. between 4th and 5th streets, right next to Walgreens. Take the elevator to the 5th floor. * By car: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/car.html * By Muni: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/muni.html * By BART: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/bart.html A huge thank you to San Francisco State University's College of Business Graduate Program for letting us use a room on Saturdays. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Campus Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed May 12 10:07:24 2010 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 10:07:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF May meeting: Afghanistan and Nepal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Added bonus: We'll also have a report from the Philippines team :-) Sameer On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:44 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > Also posted at http://tinyurl.com/olpc-sf > > We will meet at SFSU Downtown Center from 10 am to 2pm on May 15. > Carol Ruth Silver, who recently returned from Afghanistan and Nepal, > will talk about the deployments there. We'll also do the usual event > updates with new builds for XO-1, progress with XO 1.5 and school > server hardware progress. > > What: OLPC-SF May 2010 meeting > > OLPC-SF will meet on May 15, 2010. Items on the agenda: > > ? ?* Meet and greet - 10:00 am to 10:30 am > ? ?* Carol Ruth Silver: OLPC Afghanistan and Nepal deployments - > 10:30 am to 11:30 am > ? ?* XO updates - 11:30 am to 12:00 pm > ? ?* Other updates/discussions - 12:00 pm to 2:00 pm > > ? ? ? ?* OLPC Realness event. > ? ? ? ?* XO 1.5 effort. > ? ? ? ?* Fedora 11 on XO-1. > ? ? ? ?* School server and content libraries. > ? ? ? ?* Sugar on a Stick v3 - Mirabelle. > > When: Saturday, May 15, 2010. > > ? ?* 10 am to 2 pm > > Where: Room 553, SF State Downtown campus (835 Market St., San > Francisco,CA, 94103). Note that this location is NOT the main campus. > This is the same building as the new Westfield mall that houses > Bloomingdale's. Look for the SFSU banner on Market St. between 4th and > 5th streets, right next to Walgreens. Take the elevator to the 5th > floor. > > ? ?* ? ? ?By car: > http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/car.html > ? ?* ? ? ?By Muni: > http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/muni.html > ? ?* ? ? ?By BART: > http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/bart.html > > A huge thank you to San Francisco State University's College of > Business Graduate Program for letting us use a room on Saturdays. > > cheers, > Sameer > -- > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Associate Professor, Information Systems > Director, Campus Business Solutions > San Francisco State University > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ > http://is.sfsu.edu/ From jim at well.com Wed May 12 17:47:56 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 17:47:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] "Release Engineer", San Francisco, >= SF minimum wage ($9.79 per hour or better) Message-ID: <1273711676.6634.3.camel@jim-laptop> "Release Engineer", San Francisco (SOMA, near CalTrain), >= SF minimum wage ($9.79 per hour or better) BabyCenter is the leading destination on the Internet for new and expectant parents, reaching over 7 million parents each month. We have a significant technical infrastructure consisting of 20+ public web properties, multiple code release per week and numerous development teams. Our systems must support over 7 million page views per day while maintaining 99.99% availability. We are looking for someone that: * Is a real team player, with leadership ability * Is a smart, agile, flexible thinker; knows what s/he thinks and why * Is a clear and concise communicator in both written and verbal forms * Is outgoing, proactive, extroverted, articulate * Has a track record of identifying creative and appropriate techniques and solutions * Is a cultural fit for BabyCenter: collaborative, hard working, positive attitude, bias for action over analysis, works well in a fast-paced environment, multi-tasker, and proactive! Specific Job Responsibilities: * Collaborate with Development, Network Operations, and QA teams to develop and maintain continuous integration and nightly build processes. * Develop, manage and maintain rollout processes and procedures for multiple high availability environments (Development, Integration, QA, Staging, Production). * Administer, manage, maintain and tune source control system (Subversion). * Develop and maintain automated reporting tools relating to releases/environments * Work closely with the engineering team to provide a unified tool set for development and release management. * Maintain and coordinate release calendars including running the daily Change Management board meeting. Required Background: * 5-8 years working in a Unix/Linux environment * More than 5 years experience as a System Administrator, Developer, or Release Engineer Desired Skills (at a high level of competency): * General Release Engineering methodologies * System Automation * System Monitoring * Maven/Ant/Continuum/Cruise Control/Subversion * Perl programming * Solid understanding of networking concepts * Excellent verbal and written communication Desirable Background and skills: * A degree in computer science or a related field * Programming background in any applicable language ------------------------------------------------------------------------ benefits, etc.: http://careers.jnj.com/careers/global/rewards/ contact: send resume to: Michael Paoli see also (may not (yet) be listed): http://www.babycenter.com/help-aboutus-jobs http://careers.jnj.com/careers/global/experienced/landing/ This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient, please be advised that the content of this message is subject to access, review and disclosure by the sender's Email System Administrator. From bliss at sfo.com Thu May 13 10:13:41 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 10:13:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job opportunity - Potentially good news for gamers on Linux Message-ID: <4BEC3345.7040205@sfo.com> This url leads to a job offer requiring Windows and Linux knowledge & experience and includes porting games from Windows to Linux. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TAML-WNT] Potentially good news for gamers on Linux Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 18:11:42 +0200 From: Odd H. Sandvik Reply-To: Team AMIGA To: taml "Port Windows-based games to the Linux platform." http://www.valvesoftware.com/job-SenSoftEngineer.html -- Odd H. Sandvik -------- End of Original Message -------- later bliss From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Fri May 14 06:39:45 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 06:39:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG reminder & NEWS: Tu 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris; & other BALUG news Message-ID: <20100514063945.709035s17mk1fwe8@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG reminder & NEWS: Tu 2010-05-18: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris; & other BALUG news In this issue (details further below): o 2010-05-18: BALUG: reminder - this coming Tuesday!: Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris o 2010-05-15: OpsCamp (San Francisco 9a-5p(+++?)) o BALUG: "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion o 2010-04-20 BALUG: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation - "slides" available o 2010-06-10 Novell Linux Day (Santa Clara, CA) ------------------------------ reminder: Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) This coming Tuesday!: 6:30 P.M. 2010-05-18 Sam Bowne: Attacking Web users and servers with SSLstrip and Slowloris[1] Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-05-18 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: Sam Bowne Instructor, City College San Francisco (CCSF)[2], Computer Networking and Information Technology Department[3] Many Websites mix secure and insecure content on the same page, like Facebook[4]. This makes it possible to steal all the data entered on such a page easily, using Moxie Marlinspike[5]'s SSLstrip tool. Sam Bowne will explain and demonstrate this attack. Slowloris is a very new layer 7[6] denial-of-service attack[7] created by RSnake[8] that stops Apache web servers completely with very low bandwidth--one packet every 2 seconds. The Apache developers were notified of this vulnerability and decided it was unimportant and not worth patching. Sam will explain and demonstrate this attack, and discuss various ways to protect your Apache servers. Sam will provide complete instructions so that anyone can easily set up both these attacks on their own machines. Sam Bowne has been teaching computer networking and security classes at CCSF since 2000. He has given talks at DEFCON[9] and Toorcon[10] on Ethical Hacking, and taught classes and seminars at many other schools and teaching conferences. He has a B.S. in Physics from Edinboro University of Pennsylvania[11] and a Ph.D. in Physics from University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign[12]. His Industry Certifications are: Certified Ethical Hacker, Microsoft: MCP[13], MCDST[14], MCTS[15]: Vista; Network+, Security+, Certified Fiber Optic Technician. 1. http://samsclass.info/defcon.html 2. http://www.ccsf.edu/ 3. http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Computer_Networking_and_Information_Technology/ 4. http://www.facebook.com/ 5. http://thoughtcrime.org/about.html 6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osi_7_layer_model#Layer_7:_Application_Layer 7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack 8. http://ha.ckers.org/ 9. http://www.defcon.org/ 10. http://www.toorcon.org/ 11. http://www.edinboro.edu/ 12. http://illinois.edu/ 13. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Certified_Professional 14. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcdst.aspx 15. http://www.microsoft.com/learning/en/us/certification/mcts.aspx So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, May 18th, 2010 2010-05-18 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ 2010-05-15: OpsCamp (San Francisco 9a-5p(+++?)) OpsCAMP SF 2010-05-15: http://www.opscamp.org/sf " Mission About The Event OpsCamp is an unconference for people who are deeply involved with next generation IT Operations. Our first OpsCamp in Austin was an interesting mix of Ops practitioners and tool makers in an all interactive format. " ------------------------------ BALUG "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion BALUG is still working to assemble panel (and moderator) for "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Should make for very interesting, lively, informative and useful discussion/presentation/"talk/debate". For more information, and also if you know someone you'd like as panelist or moderator (or are yourself interested), and/or if you have specific topics/questions you'd like to see covered by the panel, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT: http://www.balug.org/#panel At the present time we're ACTIVELY GATHERING INFORMATION ON POTENTIAL PANELISTS, MODERATORS, available dates, etc., to plan and coordinate this event. Please also do feel free to pass this information along to any contacts you feel appropriate that may be interested. ------------------------------ 2010-04-20 BALUG: Sameer Verma on: One Laptop per Child (OLPC) Project: Plan, Updates, Direction, Participation[1] - "slides" available Missed our 2010-04-20 meeting, or want to get a better look at or grab some information from those slides? slides available: http://www.slideshare.net/sverma/olpc-project-plan-update-direction-participation (copy also archived at: http://www.archive.balug.org/2010/2010-04-20/balug-olpc-100426233751-phpapp01.odp ) 1. http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-March/000149.html ------------------------------ 2010-06-10 Novell Linux Day (Santa Clara, CA) http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-talk-balug.org/2010-May/004601.html ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From bliss at sfo.com Fri May 14 07:25:50 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 07:25:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG Meeting this Monday Message-ID: <4BED5D6E.908@sfo.com> SF-LUG meets this coming Monday, May 17, 2010 evening from 6 to 8 PM nominally at Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary. As you will have noted Jim will not be there. Additionally I may be late to the meeting due to prior commitments. Hope I see you all there. later Bobbie Sellers From grantbow at gmail.com Sun May 16 00:02:52 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 00:02:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora Elections - Town Hall Schedule Message-ID: For those interested in supporting Larry Cafiero (or other candidates) or grilling him in public! ;-) Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Robyn Bergeron Date: Thu, May 13, 2010 at 5:36 PM Subject: FESCo and Fedora Project Board Elections - Town Hall Schedule - Starting tomorrow! To: announce at lists.fedoraproject.org, advisory-board at lists.fedoraproject.org, Development discussions related to Fedora As many of you know, the FESCo and Board elections are right around the corner. In each election cycle, a series of town hall meetings is conducted to give the community an opportunity to ask the candidates questions - and hear their answers - on IRC. ?The town halls for each election are held twice, to allow for participation by community members in varying time zones. The town hall schedule is as follows: Friday, May 14, 2010 - FESCo town hall - 16:00 UTC (12:00pm US Eastern) Monday, May 17, 2010 - Fedora Project Board town hall - 00:00 UTC (8:00pm US Eastern, -SUNDAY-, May 16) Monday, May 17, 2010 - Fedora Project Board town hall - 17:00 UTC (1:00pm US Eastern) Wednesday, May 19, 2010 - FESCo town hall - 02:00 UTC (10:00pm US Eastern, -TUESDAY-, May 18) The town hall schedule, as well as important information about how you can participate in the town halls via IRC, can be seen on the wiki at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls . For more details on the elections and candidates, please visit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections. I'm hoping for an excellent community turnout for these town halls - I encourage everyone to join in and participate. -Robyn -- announce mailing list announce at lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/announce From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sun May 16 13:37:23 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:37:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100505023926.GC1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <701076.63709.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> A bit more clarification please: dns queries can be iterative ('polite') or recursive ('demand' a definitive answer vs just a referral.) Assuming the foregoing to be correct, what exactly is ment by a "recursive dns server?" >From what I've read, the implication is that a 'recursive server' (e.g. unbound) is a name server that is willing to _accept_ recursive requests but itself uses _iteration_ (so in that sense is 'iterative') to get the answer to the recursive request. Am I on the right track? cheers, alex --- On Tue, 5/4/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 7:39 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > It's working! > > > > Adding > > access-control: 10.0.0.0/8 allow > > to /etc/unbound/unbound.conf > > did the trick. > > Grant was pointing me in that direction but I didn't > really appreciate > > what he was trying to tell me until I read Rick's > notes on how to > > trouble shoot DNS. > > > > Thank you very much. > > You're very welcome. > > > Am I right in my assumption that what's in > /etc/resolv.conf on the > > plug (the machine running unbound) becomes > irrelevant? > > Well, not really.? It's a good question, and the > matter actually bears > thinking about. > > Brief review of context:? Any TCP/IP machine is (or > can be) a DNS > client.? Unix machines have client functionality > tucked away inside part > of the system libc (which is GNU glibc in Linux's > case).? The > configuration files for that client functionality are -- on > most Unix > machines -- /etc/resolv.conf and /etc/nsswitch.conf .? > (Don't worry > about the latter if it seems mysterious.? Leave it > alone.) > > Most people don't think about resolv.conf (let alone > nsswitch.conf), > because they either set it once and forget, or leave its > contents > entirely up to DHCP.? However, it's worth remembering > that _each_ > machine has a client setup, which affects how _its own_ > TCP/IP stack > works -- and not anything else.? That client setup > thus affects only > programs running _on_ the machine in question. > > Applying that general truth to host 'plug':? If you > tweak the contents > of /etc/resolv.conf on 'plug', you are determining where > the DNS queries > go that are generated by programs running _on_ plug that > make reference > to hosts elsewhere by hostname -- DNS-using network > applications. > > You might be surprised to learn that Unbound (like other > nameservers) > is _not_ one of those DNS-using network applications.? > Unbound doesn't > use DNS client services.? Why?? Because that > would create a > chicken-and-egg problem.? So, e.g., unbound.conf's > references to > machines elsewhere is by IP address only. > > But presumably you have things other than Unbound running > on 'plug', or > you might want to, at least, and you want to be able to use > DNS services > there.? So, you wonder, should you tell 'plug' to > consult 'plug' only > for its DNS? > > > > Should I change it to a one liner consisting of > > nameserver localhost > > and delete what was there before, namely: > > search sonic.net > > domain sonic.net > > nameserver 208.201.224.11 > > nameserver 208.201.224.33 > > ?????? > > You could.? The argument in favour is 'Hey, I like > sonic.net, but my own > recursive nameserver is the last word in really, really > close, and I'd > rather get local nameservice from, y'know, a really local > source.' > > The argument against is:? 'If Unbound is hung or not > running, then all > nameservice on plug will be offline.' > > You could make a good argument either way.? One > fence-straddling option > would be to put '#' marks in front of the two existing > lines referencing > sonic.net nameserver IPs.? If Unbound is ever not > running, you just > uncomment one or both of those lines, and you instantly > will get local > DNS services back. > > 'Hope that helps. > > By the way, you can certainly get away with 'nameserver > localhost' in > /etc/resolv.conf, because the static hosts mapping file, > /etc/hosts, > includes a stable and reliable definition of what IP the > name 'localhost' > should always resolve to (unless you screw up that file, > which can > result in some really puzzling problems, let me tell > you).? _However_, > the 'nameserver' lines in /etc/resolv.conf should really > point only to > numerical IP addresses.? Therefore, 'nameserver > localhost' is a slightly > irregular way to say it, avoidably making local nameservice > dependent on > the /etc/hosts file.? The correct way to say that is > 'nameserver 127.0.0.1'. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun May 16 14:50:55 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 14:50:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <701076.63709.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100505023926.GC1322@linuxmafia.com> <701076.63709.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100516215055.GG1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > A bit more clarification please: > > dns queries can be iterative ('polite') or recursive ('demand' a definitive answer vs just a referral.) Assuming the foregoing to be correct, what exactly is ment by a "recursive dns server?" A recursive DNS server is one that honours the intended meaning of the 'recursion desired' (RD) bit, when that bit is set on an arriving query. The RD bit means 'I, the system originating this query, would like you, the nameserver receiving it, to follow delegation chains on my behalf as far as necessary, and respond only when you have the ultimate answer, rather than just an intermediate one.' A query that has the RD bit UNset is dubbed an iterative query. A functional definition of 'recursive DNS server' thus might be 'any DNS nameserver to which you send a query with the RD bit, and for which the server doesn't already have the ultimate answer in cache, which thereupon comes back with the desired answer after pursuing the delegation chain'. > From what I've read, the implication is that a 'recursive server' > (e.g. unbound) is a name server that is willing to _accept_ recursive > requests but itself uses _iteration_ (so in that sense is > 'iterative') to get the answer to the recursive request. No, that is not right. Let's say you asked for resolution of uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com using a query with the RD bit set. Let's suppose your query goes to a nameserver that is unwilling/unable to do recursion, ie., that is an iterative server. Also, let's suppose the nameserver has a depleted cache (because, e.g., it's just been fired up). Put in English-language terms, your conversation would go like this: Q: What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com? [Query would have the RD bit set.] A: I don't know. [Answer would have the 'recursion available' = RA bit UNset.] Q: OK, then can you get the root nameservers? A: Sure: [list of 13 nameservers including a.root-servers.net] Q: OK, then can you get from that set the nameservers for .com ? A: Sure: [list of 13 nameservers including a.gtld-servers.net] Q: OK, then can you get from that set the nameservers for linuxmafia.com? A: Sure: [list of 5 nameservers including ns1.linuxmafia.com] Q: OK, can you ask ns1.linuxmafia.com what uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com is? A: 198.144.195.186 The same conversion with a recursive nameserver is shorter: Q: What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com? [Query would have the RD bit set.] A: 198.144.195.186 [Answer would have the RA bit set.] If you direct that same query at a machine doing authoritative DNS only, and you're asking about _anything other than_ the domains it's publishing authoritative DNS for, then you get a whole lot of no information. Q: What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com? [Query would have the RD bit set.] A: I don't know that. [Answer would have the RA bit UNset.] Q: OK, then can you get the root nameservers? A: I don't know that. [Answer would have the RA bit UNset.] Here's an example of the latter. First, I find out which three nameservers Bank of America uses for its own bankofamerica.com domain. For security and performance reasons, those three authoritative servers answer _only_ queries about the domain for which it's authoritative. Notice the 'I don't know that' answer I get when I ask one of them about uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com: $ dig -t ns bankofamerica.com +short ns1.bankofamerica.com. ns3.bankofamerica.com. ns4.bankofamerica.com. $ dig uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com @ns1.bankofamerica.com. ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 38605 ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: . 3600000 IN NS H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. . 3600000 IN NS K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. $ From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sun May 16 15:19:59 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100516215055.GG1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <940217.66426.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Once again: thank you, Rick. I thought I had it all figured out and almost didn't post the question; ..glad I did. cheers, alex --- On Sun, 5/16/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 2:50 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > > > A bit more clarification please: > > > > dns queries can be iterative ('polite') or recursive > ('demand' a definitive answer vs just a referral.) Assuming > the foregoing to be correct, what exactly is ment by a > "recursive dns server?" > > A recursive DNS server is one that honours the intended > meaning of the > 'recursion desired' (RD) bit, when that bit is set on an > arriving query. > > The RD bit means 'I, the system originating this query, > would like you, > the nameserver receiving it, to follow delegation chains on > my behalf as > far as necessary, and respond only when you have the > ultimate answer, > rather than just an intermediate one.' > > A query that has the RD bit UNset is dubbed an iterative > query. > > A functional definition of 'recursive DNS server' thus > might be 'any DNS > nameserver to which you send a query with the RD bit, and > for which the > server doesn't already have the ultimate answer in cache, > which > thereupon comes back with the desired answer after pursuing > the > delegation chain'. > > > > From what I've read, the implication is that a > 'recursive server' > > (e.g. unbound) is a name server that is willing to > _accept_ recursive > > requests but itself uses _iteration_ (so in that sense > is > > 'iterative') to get the answer to the recursive > request. > > No, that is not right. > > Let's say you asked for resolution of > uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com using a > query with the RD bit set.? Let's suppose your query > goes to a > nameserver that is unwilling/unable to do recursion, ie., > that is an > iterative server.? Also, let's suppose the nameserver > has a depleted > cache (because, e.g., it's just been fired up). > > Put in English-language terms, your conversation would go > like this: > > Q:? What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com?? [Query > would have the RD bit set.] > A:? I don't know.???[Answer would have > the 'recursion available' = RA > ? ? bit UNset.] > > Q:? OK, then can you get the root nameservers? > A:? Sure:? [list of 13 nameservers including > a.root-servers.net] > > Q:? OK, then can you get from that set the nameservers > for .com ? > A:? Sure:? [list of 13 nameservers including > a.gtld-servers.net] > > Q:? OK, then can you get from that set the nameservers > for linuxmafia.com? > A:? Sure:? [list of 5 nameservers including > ns1.linuxmafia.com] > > Q:? OK, can you ask ns1.linuxmafia.com what > uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com is? > A:? 198.144.195.186 > > > The same conversion with a recursive nameserver is > shorter: > > Q:? What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com?? [Query > would have the RD bit set.] > A:? 198.144.195.186? [Answer would have the RA > bit set.] > > > > If you direct that same query at a machine doing > authoritative DNS only, > and you're asking about _anything other than_ the domains > it's publishing > authoritative DNS for, then you get a whole lot of no > information. > > Q:? What is uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com?? [Query > would have the RD bit set.] > A:? I don't know that. [Answer would have the RA bit > UNset.] > > Q:? OK, then can you get the root nameservers? > A:? I don't know that.? [Answer would have the RA > bit UNset.] > > > Here's an example of the latter.? First, I find out > which three > nameservers Bank of America uses for its own > bankofamerica.com domain. > For security and performance reasons, those three > authoritative servers > answer _only_ queries about the domain for which it's > authoritative.? > Notice the 'I don't know that' answer I get when I ask one > of them about > uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com: > > > $ dig -t ns bankofamerica.com +short > ns1.bankofamerica.com. > ns3.bankofamerica.com. > ns4.bankofamerica.com. > > $ dig uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com @ns1.bankofamerica.com. > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, > id: 38605 > ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 13, > ADDITIONAL: 0 > ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? H.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? F.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? G.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? I.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? M.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? L.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? C.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? J.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? E.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? B.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? D.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? A.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???3600000 IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? K.ROOT-SERVERS.NET. > $ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun May 16 19:21:01 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 19:21:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <940217.66426.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100516215055.GG1322@linuxmafia.com> <940217.66426.qm@web110612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100517022101.GH1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Once again: thank you, Rick. > I thought I had it all figured out and almost didn't post the > question; ..glad I did. Just looking through the question you posed, though, I realise I probably didn't quite do it justice: > From what I've read, the implication is that a 'recursive server' > (e.g. unbound) is a name server that is willing to _accept_ recursive > requests but itself uses _iteration_ (so in that sense is > 'iterative') to get the answer to the recursive request. Just to not confuse you: You _are_ correct that a recursive nameserver like Unbound or PowerDNS Recursor itself may well use iteration to get the answer from elsewhere a step at a time. But we call a nameserver iterative or recursive based on how it _answers_ queries to DNS clients, not how it asks them of various upstream authoritative nameservers to acquire information it doesn't yet have in cache. The point is that any query, either one from a DNS client or one from a recursive nameserver to a different nameserver to acquire information, can have the RD bit set, requesting 'Please, if you're willing, Mr. Nameserver, don't just tell me you don't have the answer to my query in cache. Instead, go chase down the information at other nameservers and get back to me with either the ultimate answer or "No such entity".' The 'no such entity' answer, by the way, is called NXDOMAIN, which you'll sometimes see in dig results. E.g.: $ dig i-dont-exist.com ;; Got answer: ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NXDOMAIN, id: 41353 ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, ADDITIONAL: 0 ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: com. 900 IN SOA a.gtld-servers.net. nstld.verisign-grs.com. 1274062271 1800 900 604800 86400 $ You might be interested to know that adding the '+trace' flag to a dig query causes it to send out a series of queries with _no_ RD bit, such that dig itself works down the delegation chain, sending a bunch of iterative queries. Example: $ dig uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +trace . 231480 IN NS h.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS g.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS k.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS j.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS e.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS m.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS d.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS f.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS i.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS c.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS b.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS l.root-servers.net. . 231480 IN NS a.root-servers.net. ;; Received 272 bytes from 198.144.195.186#53(198.144.195.186) in 3 ms com. 172800 IN NS a.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS b.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS c.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS d.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS e.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS f.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS g.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS h.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS i.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS j.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS k.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS l.gtld-servers.net. com. 172800 IN NS m.gtld-servers.net. ;; Received 506 bytes from 128.63.2.53#53(h.root-servers.net) in 4875 ms linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns.tx.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.linuxmafia.com. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns1.thecoop.net. linuxmafia.com. 172800 IN NS ns2.linuxmafia.com. ;; Received 261 bytes from 192.33.14.30#53(b.gtld-servers.net) in 5380 ms uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN A 198.144.195.186 linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN NS ns1.thecoop.net. linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN NS ns.tx.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN NS ns.primate.net. linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN NS ns2.linuxmafia.com. linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN NS ns1.linuxmafia.com. ;; Received 201 bytes from 198.144.195.186#53(ns1.linuxmafia.com) in 3755 ms $ So, dig starts by asking ns1.linuxmafia.com where the root nameservers are. Then, dig asks one of the root nameservers (h.root-servers.net) what the .com nameservers are. Then, dig asks one of the .com nameservers (b.gtld-servers.net) what linuxmafia.com's nameservers are. Last, dig asks one of linuxmafia.com's nameservers (ns1.linuxmafia.com) what uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com is. dig's +trace option is pretty much the opposite of sending out a query to your local recursive nameserver with the 'RD' bit set and asking it to do all your work for you. '+trace', by contrast, is deliberately leaving that bit off on a 'never mind; I'll do it myself' basis. You might say I dig dig. ;-> From a_kleider at yahoo.com Sun May 16 19:43:58 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 19:43:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <20100517022101.GH1322@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <488891.67338.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ..and I dig your answers! Thank you again ..and as an aside, O'Reily should be paying you to write books. This last round of inquiry on my part resulted from having read the first 3 chapters of their DNS and BIND book by Liu and Albitz, which (the books first 3 chapters, I mean,) from my perspective, failed to clarify what you've done in a couple of emails. cheers,ak --- On Sun, 5/16/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor > To: "Linux userGroup" > Date: Sunday, May 16, 2010, 7:21 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > Once again: thank you, Rick. > > I thought I had it all figured out and almost didn't > post the > > question; ..glad I did. > > Just looking through the question you posed, though, I > realise I > probably didn't quite do it justice: > > ? > From what I've read, the implication is that a > 'recursive server' > ? > (e.g. unbound) is a name server that is willing > to _accept_ recursive > ? > requests but itself uses _iteration_ (so in > that sense is > ? > 'iterative') to get the answer to the recursive > request. > > Just to not confuse you:? You _are_ correct that a > recursive nameserver > like Unbound or PowerDNS Recursor itself may well use > iteration to get the > answer from elsewhere a step at a time.? But we call a > nameserver > iterative or recursive based on how it _answers_ queries to > DNS clients, > not how it asks them of various upstream authoritative > nameservers to > acquire information it doesn't yet have in cache. > > The point is that any query, either one from a DNS client > or one from a > recursive nameserver to a different nameserver to acquire > information, > can have the RD bit set, requesting 'Please, if you're > willing, Mr. > Nameserver, don't just tell me you don't have the answer to > my query in > cache.? Instead, go chase down the information at > other nameservers and > get back to me with either the ultimate answer or "No such > entity".' > > The 'no such entity' answer, by the way, is called > NXDOMAIN, which > you'll sometimes see in dig results.? E.g.: > > $ dig i-dont-exist.com > ;; Got answer: > ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: > NXDOMAIN, id: 41353 > ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 1, > ADDITIONAL: 0 > > ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 900? ???IN? ? > ? SOA? ???a.gtld-servers.net. > nstld.verisign-grs.com. 1274062271 1800 900 604800 86400 > $ > > You might be interested to know that adding the '+trace' > flag to a dig > query causes it to send out a series of queries with _no_ > RD bit, such > that dig itself works down the delegation chain, sending a > bunch of > iterative queries.? Example: > > $ dig uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +trace > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? h.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? g.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? k.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? j.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? e.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? m.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? d.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? f.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? i.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? c.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? b.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? l.root-servers.net. > .? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? ???231480? IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? a.root-servers.net. > ;; Received 272 bytes from > 198.144.195.186#53(198.144.195.186) in 3 ms > > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? a.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? b.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? c.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? d.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? e.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? f.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? g.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? h.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? i.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? j.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? k.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? l.gtld-servers.net. > com.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ? 172800? IN? ? ? NS? > ? ? m.gtld-servers.net. > ;; Received 506 bytes from > 128.63.2.53#53(h.root-servers.net) in 4875 ms > > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???172800? IN? ? ? > NS? ? ? ns.primate.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???172800? IN? ? ? > NS? ? ? ns.tx.primate.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???172800? IN? ? ? > NS? ? ? ns1.linuxmafia.com. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???172800? IN? ? ? > NS? ? ? ns1.thecoop.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???172800? IN? ? ? > NS? ? ? ns2.linuxmafia.com. > ;; Received 261 bytes from > 192.33.14.30#53(b.gtld-servers.net) in 5380 ms > > uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com. 86400 IN? > ???A? ? > ???198.144.195.186 > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???86400???IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? ns1.thecoop.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???86400???IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? ns.tx.primate.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???86400???IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? ns.primate.net. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???86400???IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? ns2.linuxmafia.com. > linuxmafia.com.? ? ? > ???86400???IN? ? > ? NS? ? ? ns1.linuxmafia.com. > ;; Received 201 bytes from > 198.144.195.186#53(ns1.linuxmafia.com) in 3755 ms > $ > > > So, dig starts by asking ns1.linuxmafia.com where the root > nameservers > are.? Then, dig asks one of the root nameservers > (h.root-servers.net) > what the .com nameservers are.? Then, dig asks one of > the .com > nameservers (b.gtld-servers.net) what linuxmafia.com's > nameservers are. > Last, dig asks one of linuxmafia.com's nameservers > (ns1.linuxmafia.com) > what uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com is. > > dig's +trace option is pretty much the opposite of sending > out a query > to your local recursive nameserver with the 'RD' bit set > and asking it > to do all your work for you.? '+trace', by contrast, > is deliberately > leaving that bit off on a 'never mind; I'll do it myself' > basis. > > You might say I dig dig.? ;-> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Sun May 16 21:09:21 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 21:09:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pdns-recursor In-Reply-To: <488891.67338.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100517022101.GH1322@linuxmafia.com> <488891.67338.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100517040921.GI1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > ..and as an aside, O'Reily should be paying you to write books. > This last round of inquiry on my part resulted from having read the > first 3 chapters of their DNS and BIND book by Liu and Albitz, which > (the books first 3 chapters, I mean,) from my perspective, failed to > clarify what you've done in a couple of emails. Odd that you should say that. Back in the day, _DNS and BIND_ was one of the books that finally convinced me that _not_ all O'Reilly books are particularly good. Back in the 1980s, I used to think, as did a lot of other people (I believe), that the Nutshell series in particular, but also any O'Reilly book in general, was always a safe purchase if you wanted the very best tutorials and reference books. I learned better. The one that really convinced me was O'Reilly's book _Sendmail_, originally by Eric Allman, Sendmail's author -- aka the Bat Book (now 1312 pages in its 4th edition). Man, I've seldom seen a more functionally useless book: Yes, the answer to every question you could possibly ask about Sendmail is doubtless in there somewhere, but you'll never find it when you need it. Anyway, yeah, Cricket Liu's _DNS and BIND_ is a bloody awful way to try to learn DNS. FWIW, I make available my example zonefiles and BIND configuration files in order to help people learn how to do _authoritative_ DNS properly, though that doesn't help with the larger surrounding questions such as those you have asked. (Authoritative DNS is where you want DNS published for a domain you own.) http://linuxmafia.com/pub/linux/network/bind9-examples-linuxmafia.tar.gz From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Mon May 17 14:34:23 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 14:34:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] small linux distro to serve static web pages? Message-ID: Hey folks, We've recently upgraded our environments to new load balancers, and one of their capabilities is to redirect the browser to an "unavailable" page if there are no web servers online in the load balancing pool. I need something to serve up a basic HTML page stating that the system is down for maintenance. Ideally it would play nicely under VMware, where it would be running, and it needs no scripting capabilities. It seems like I am not the only person with this kind of need and there might be some prefab solution out there. Any ideas/suggestions? Thanks! Nathan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Mon May 17 18:06:14 2010 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:06:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] small linux distro to serve static web pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It sounds to me like virtually any webserver would do, and there must be a dozen or more that were written to be light-weight. Lots of people have good things to say about lighttpd; I've also found "dhttpd" in debian package repositories, described as a "minimal secure webserver without cgi-bin support". I would imagine either of these (or a host of others) would provide what you need. On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Nathan Hoover wrote: > Hey folks, > > We've recently upgraded our environments to new load balancers, and one of > their capabilities is to redirect the browser to an "unavailable" page if > there are no web servers online in the load balancing pool. I need something > to serve up a basic HTML page stating that the system is down for > maintenance. Ideally it would play nicely under VMware, where it would be > running, and it needs no scripting capabilities. It seems like I am not the > only person with this kind of need and there might be some prefab solution > out there. Any ideas/suggestions? > > Thanks! > Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jackofnotrades at gmail.com Mon May 17 18:58:34 2010 From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 18:58:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] small linux distro to serve static web pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My mistake. You said distro (and I don't have a good answer for that). On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Jeff Bragg wrote: > It sounds to me like virtually any webserver would do, and there must be a > dozen or more that were written to be light-weight. Lots of people have > good things to say about lighttpd; I've also found "dhttpd" in debian > package repositories, described as a "minimal secure webserver without > cgi-bin support". I would imagine either of these (or a host of others) > would provide what you need. > > On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 2:34 PM, Nathan Hoover wrote: > >> Hey folks, >> >> We've recently upgraded our environments to new load balancers, and one of >> their capabilities is to redirect the browser to an "unavailable" page if >> there are no web servers online in the load balancing pool. I need something >> to serve up a basic HTML page stating that the system is down for >> maintenance. Ideally it would play nicely under VMware, where it would be >> running, and it needs no scripting capabilities. It seems like I am not the >> only person with this kind of need and there might be some prefab solution >> out there. Any ideas/suggestions? >> >> Thanks! >> Nathan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss at sfo.com Mon May 17 19:18:28 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:18:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at Cafe Enchante Message-ID: <4BF1F8F4.8020100@sfo.com> I was late but here by 6:30 PM but there seem to no other members here but the Cafe is very busy and the downloads are slow. If the usual 6-10 individuals had shown up they would have had a hard time setting up contiguously. 24 or thereabouts people in the Cafe. Lots of surfing. If no one else shows shortly I will be leaving early. later Bobbie From cymraegish at gmail.com Mon May 17 19:55:04 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 19:55:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at Cafe Enchante In-Reply-To: <4BF1F8F4.8020100@sfo.com> References: <4BF1F8F4.8020100@sfo.com> Message-ID: I wish that meeting was at a more central location. I don't have a car and I live on the other side of town, and that area has no train, the bus is very slow from where I am to there. Brian On 5/17/10, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > > I was late but here by 6:30 PM but there seem to > no other members here but the Cafe is very busy and > the downloads are slow. > If the usual 6-10 individuals had shown up they would > have had a hard time setting up contiguously. > 24 or thereabouts people in the Cafe. Lots of > surfing. > If no one else shows shortly I will be leaving early. > > later > Bobbie > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rafa-el at att.net Mon May 17 20:08:04 2010 From: rafa-el at att.net (Rafael Vanoni) Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 20:08:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at Cafe Enchante In-Reply-To: References: <4BF1F8F4.8020100@sfo.com> Message-ID: <4BF20494.4040109@att.net> Same here. I know this is a recurring subject, but it's why I haven't been able to attend one of the meetings yet. Rafael On 05/17/10 07:55 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > I wish that meeting was at a more central location. I don't have a car > and I live on the other side of town, and that area has no train, the > bus is very slow from where I am to there. > > Brian > > > On 5/17/10, Bobbie Sellers wrote: >> >> I was late but here by 6:30 PM but there seem to >> no other members here but the Cafe is very busy and >> the downloads are slow. >> If the usual 6-10 individuals had shown up they would >> have had a hard time setting up contiguously. >> 24 or thereabouts people in the Cafe. Lots of >> surfing. >> If no one else shows shortly I will be leaving early. >> >> later >> Bobbie >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From asheesh at asheesh.org Tue May 18 08:29:59 2010 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sf-lug] small linux distro to serve static web pages? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2010, Nathan Hoover wrote: > Hey folks, > > We've recently upgraded our environments to new load balancers, and one > of their capabilities is to redirect the browser to an "unavailable" > page if there are no web servers online in the load balancing pool. I > need something to serve up a basic HTML page stating that the system is > down for maintenance. Ideally it would play nicely under VMware, where > it would be running, and it needs no scripting capabilities. It seems > like I am not the only person with this kind of need and there might be > some prefab solution out there. Any ideas/suggestions? Debian for distro. Varnish or nginx for http, I suggest. -- Asheesh. -- Familiarity breeds contempt -- and children. -- Mark Twain From grantbow at gmail.com Tue May 18 23:04:28 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 23:04:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] May 2010 Wifi Adapter Checkup Message-ID: Many thanks to the previous suggestions of wifi adapters on this list. I'm faced again with needing to buy adapters. Unfortunately the Asus recommended by Eric Walstad at http://snipr.com/u9s7o is no longer available. The Edimax ew7318usg is still available but only supporting 802.11g and at $24.99 from newegg it doesn't seem very attractive. As products come and go it's hard to keep on top of what's available and compatible. Several USB 802.11n adapters are available from Newegg http://snurl.com/wi15g in the $20 range. The Rosewill RNX-EasyN1 with 200+ reviews for $14.99 and a Ralink 3070 chipset seems attractive if it works well. Unfortunately it only uses the 2.4 GHz band and not the 5 GHz band that some "N" products support. Does anyone have any hands on experience with this or recommendations for other (ideally) inexpensive "N" adapters that are well supported by current (even a few revisions past) Linux kernel drivers? Thanks, Grant From bill at wards.net Wed May 19 12:00:05 2010 From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net) Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 12:00:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 05/26/2010 Message-ID: PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS: +-----------------------------------+ |Date: |Wednesday, May 26, 2009 | |---------+-------------------------| |Time: |6:00 - 8:00 PM | |---------+-------------------------| | |Bayshore Technology Park | |Location:|1300 Island Drive | | |Redwood City, CA 94065 | | |Suite 106 - Training Room| |---------+-------------------------| |RSVP: |Facebook: (coming soon) | | |or mail rsvp at penlug.org | +-----------------------------------+ Note we are now meeting on Wednesdays! Since March 2010, we moved to the fourth Wednesday of each month (except in November and December, when we will meet on the second Wednesday to avoid holiday conflicts). The meeting is hosted by NewlineNoosh. There is no sponsor for food/drinks, so please bring a potluck item to share. Agenda: * 6:00 PM Potluck snacks * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes * 6:30 PM Presentation begins * 8:00 PM Meeting ends Linux Open-Source Virtualization Roadmap Abstract : Linux supports multiple open-source technologies for virtualization, the most popular being Xen, KVM, OpenVZ and Vservers. Each has its strengths, weaknesses and tradeoffs, so selecting the right one for your environment is non-trivial. This talk will cover the capabilities of the four major virtualization types, in the following areas. Resource use : All methods of virtualization impose an overhead in addition to the cost of processes running within each virtual machine. However, this overhead varies between KVM (the most expensive) and OpenVZ (the cheapest). Isolation : Virtual machines should be ideally isolated from each other and from the host system, and be limited in the amount of CPU, RAM, disk space and network bandwidth they can use. However, in practice the level of isolation depends on the technology used - Xen performs with best, Vservers the worst. Manageability : A good virtualization technology makes it easy to create, manage, move and destroy virtual systems. Each of the four types has its own tools, commands and configuration file format. Flexibility : Some virtualization methods like OpenVZ and Vservers can only run Linux, while others like Xen and KVM can run almost any operating system, if they have the required hardware support. Future support : Each technology is developed by different groups, and not all are as well maintained. KVM is the leader here, as it is now part of the Linux kernel, while Vservers seems to be falling behind. Jamie Cameron, Webmin Jamie is the developer of Webmin, a popular open-source web-based system administration took for Linux and Unix systems. He also works on Virtualmin (a web hosting control panel) and Cloudmin (an interface for managing virtual systems). RSVP Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you are planning to attend. GETTING THERE For information on getting to the meeting, please see: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting. MORE INFORMATION See www.penlug.org for more information. This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists: members at penlug.org announce at penlug.org sf-lug at linuxmafia.com balug-talk at lists.balug.org svlug at lists.svlug.org svevents at yahoogroups.com vox at lists.lugod.org Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes. From alchaiken at gmail.com Thu May 20 09:18:47 2010 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 09:18:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OSCON ride and room share? Message-ID: Anyone going up to OSCON in Portland in July? -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ If you can't be part of the solution, at least be part of the spectacle. From bliss at sfo.com Thu May 20 13:40:31 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 13:40:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 Message-ID: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> It has a Pentium running at 75 MHz and 8 MiB of memory. 541 MiB of fixed disk Windows 95 installed and runs in a half-hearted fashion. Oh yes that exotic 3.5 inch floppy disk. No CD drive, No USB and strange looking port(expansion dock?) on rear. Serial 9-pin port, parallel port, VGA port up to SVA Working display at 800 x 600, 10+ inch display, stereo out and microphone, looks like standard keyboard mouse port. Battery may be bad. Takes only 32 Megs of memory in two simms Put the Farralon adapter in place and it seems to work. 1) can an old version of Linux be installed on this mess? 2) Christian, could your group use this? later bliss From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 20 14:12:14 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 14:12:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> Message-ID: <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > 1) can an old version of Linux be installed on this mess? It could, but: (1) What would you do with a machine having only 8 MB of RAM? (2) A machine based on a P75 CPU (Intel model P54C) would have been sold around 1995. It's now 15 years old. That means it's probably fragile and near death, _and_ any spare parts for it, including 16 MB SIMMS for the 66 MHz front-side bus, are specialty items. C'mon, man, be serious. It's a dodo. Let it die. -- Rick Moen "'Pop Tarts' is a trademark, and should not rick at linuxmafia.com be used to describe generic products such as McQ! (4x80) Taylor Swift or Miley Cyrus." -- FakeAPStylebook From bliss at sfo.com Thu May 20 15:13:28 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:13:28 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> On 05/20/2010 02:12 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > > >> 1) can an old version of Linux be installed on this mess? >> > It could, but: (1) What would you do with a machine having only 8 MB of > RAM? (2) A machine based on a P75 CPU (Intel model P54C) would have > been sold around 1995. It's now 15 years old. That means it's probably > fragile and near death, _and_ any spare parts for it, including 16 MB > SIMMS for the 66 MHz front-side bus, are specialty items. > > C'mon, man, be serious. It's a dodo. Let it die. > Well I would like to feel that way myself but I don't. I get a kick from playing with these old systems which someone might be able to use for e-mail and word processing and light weight browsing. But the system it was built to run is unsupported in any fashion. You know which company built that OS. As for the age certainly you are correct about that but in a Third World Nation they would be happy to see this. There is no dying, there is recycling to the extreme. And from my other mailing list I have at least two useful suggestions. Gotta go thank my Norwegian friend. later bliss From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 20 15:41:14 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 15:41:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> Message-ID: <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > I get a kick from playing with these old systems which > someone might be able to use for e-mail and word processing > and light weight browsing. Using Win95 and low-end 15-year-old productivity software, sure, but you're going to be horribly frustrated launching _even_ Linux kernel + X11 + Blackbox + AbiWord, and that's _after_ somehow scrounging a pair of 16 MB SIMMs to bring you up -- and I use the word loosely -- to 32MB RAM. Do you even have a rough conception of the RSS footprint of lightweight word-processors, browsers, and e-mail clients in 2010? I think you're underestimating that requirment -- unless your idea of lightweight applications is vi, lynx, and elm. > As for the age certainly you are correct about that but in a Third > World Nation they would be happy to see this. That would be a relevant point if shipping to third-world nations (and curb-to-curb pickup) were free of charge. As it is, in _this_ country, even PII and PIII systems have been getting dumpstered in massive numbers. Good luck with your P75, but I'm currently drawing the line at one decade (currently PIII). > Gotta go thank my Norwegian friend. My Tante Bjorg warned me to never trust those Norwegians. ;-> From bliss at sfo.com Thu May 20 16:05:40 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:05:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <4BF5C044.8080106@sfo.com> On 05/20/2010 03:41 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > > >> I get a kick from playing with these old systems which >> someone might be able to use for e-mail and word processing >> and light weight browsing. >> > Using Win95 and low-end 15-year-old productivity software, sure, but > you're going to be horribly frustrated launching _even_ Linux kernel + > X11 + Blackbox + AbiWord, and that's _after_ somehow scrounging a pair > of 16 MB SIMMs to bring you up -- and I use the word loosely -- to 32MB > RAM. > Have you heard of BasicLinux? Runs in as little as 3 MiB another version demands 12 MiB. http://www.volny.cz/basiclinux/ Easy to find the simms; harder to find the $ for them. Battery costs the same so I won't do too much unless that battery has some life left. :-) > Do you even have a rough conception of the RSS footprint of lightweight > word-processors, browsers, and e-mail clients in 2010? I think you're > underestimating that requirment -- unless your idea of lightweight > applications is vi, lynx, and elm. > I am not asking about 2010 systems which I know take a lot more room. I am talking ancient versions with ancient requirements as have BasicLinux setups. Remember that on this notebook form factor I have a 2009.1 Mandriva setup with a full set of user level tools and 4 GiB of ram with the AMD 64 x 2 (cores). >> As for the age certainly you are correct about that but in a Third >> World Nation they would be happy to see this. >> > That would be a relevant point if shipping to third-world nations (and > curb-to-curb pickup) were free of charge. > I think a way could be found to put this into hands that need such a tool whether locally or overseas. That is if I can get it into good enough shape to pass it on, That is why I asked Christian if he though he could do something with it. > As it is, in _this_ country, even PII and PIII systems have been getting > dumpstered in massive numbers. Good luck with your P75, but I'm > currently drawing the line at one decade (currently PIII). > Well that is folly. I mean the dumping. On the 1 decade of tolerance you are free to set your limits of course, however you please. But my mom always took in stray dogs that looked like they had a week of useful life. I unfortunately am allergic to dogs and so must enact my salvage on less animate objects. >> Gotta go thank my Norwegian friend. >> > My Tante Bjorg warned me to never trust those Norwegians. ;-> > Alas I was not so warned but Odd is a good friend and came up with 3 or 4 useful suggestions later bliss From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 20 16:20:40 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:20:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <4BF5C044.8080106@sfo.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5C044.8080106@sfo.com> Message-ID: <20100520232040.GC13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Bobbie Sellers (bliss at sfo.com): > Have you heard of BasicLinux? > Runs in as little as 3 MiB another version demands 12 MiB. > > http://www.volny.cz/basiclinux/ Yes, of course. The CABAL library used to have a copy, but there was no demand for that floppy-oriented microdistribution. > Easy to find the simms; harder to find the $ for them. > Battery costs the same so I won't do too much unless that battery > has some life left. :-) So, you see my point. > I am not asking about 2010 systems which I know take a lot more > room. I am talking ancient versions with ancient requirements as > have BasicLinux setups. Ancient versions have highly exploitable security bugs -- even if you would not be horribly frustrated with the limitations of, say, the BrowseX Web browser, and even if you could make it tolerable in 32 MB total RAM, let alone 8 MB. Decade+ -old releases of Netscape Navigator for Linux? Not only would those be security nightmares, but also they segfault when exposed to modern Web pages. They couldn't even handle tables without segfaulting in 2001, Bobbie. I remember. In 2010, forget it. > I think a way could be found to put this into hands that need such > a tool whether locally or overseas. Or you could spend the same amount of time and money doing something actually useful. Your call. > Well that is folly. I mean the dumping. It's reality. (See .signature block.) From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 20 16:24:51 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:24:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <20100520232040.GC13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5C044.8080106@sfo.com> <20100520232040.GC13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100520232451.GA11476@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > It's reality. (See .signature block.) And for my next trick, a non-invisible one: -- Cheers, "Reality is not optional." Rick Moen -- Thomas Sowell rick at linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu May 20 16:53:08 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:53:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Found an Asentia J10 In-Reply-To: <20100520232040.GC13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <4BF59E3F.7000108@sfo.com> <20100520211214.GZ13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5B408.3040806@sfo.com> <20100520224113.GB13000@linuxmafia.com> <4BF5C044.8080106@sfo.com> <20100520232040.GC13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100520235308.GA11834@linuxmafia.com> As possible help for Bobbie, and to put perspective onto memory usage, I just fetched onto my Debian system what is about the smallest-possible graphical word processor (going by RAM footprint) that would be workable, Mark de Does's "Ted". Ted is a tiny RTF-oriented word processor, roughly comparable with MS-Windows's Wordpad. It uses the antique Motif/Lesstif graphical libraries. The version I fetched wasn't from 15 years ago, but rather was the final release (packaged in 2005) most recently included in Debian's 4.0 "etch" release, and dropped from the archive after that. Memory footprint: $ ps auxw | grep -i ted rmoen 6718 0.1 0.1 9372 3836 ? Ss 16:37 0:00 /usr/bin/Ted $ So: Virtual memory size of the process is 9 MB. Resident set size is 4 MB. So, even with most of the running code swapped out, you have a hard code of 4 MB resident RAM. I remember Ted because of an old FAQ I used to maintain about Corel WordPerfect for Linux (which, by the way, has RSS of about 6-8 MB, plus a bunch more if you ever print anything). The WP for Linux FAQ include a (formerly?) handy page about alternative apps, including Ted: http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/future.html#ALTERNATIVES Lightweight graphical e-mail clients for Linux? Good luck on that, but here's a list of all Linux e-mail clients I know of: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Mail/muas.html From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 21 12:38:25 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 12:38:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <307660.74694.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> <307660.74694.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > Following the protocol recommended (and actually carried out) by Rick, > I decided upon an HP Laserjet 4100N offered on Craigs List for $50. > > It was sold to me by a nice Russian guy called Paul, who swaps out > hardware for large companies and he has a ware house full of printers > (lots more of these as well.) His contact info is 650-996-5829, > vitalxs at gmail.com. His place is in Mountain View just off 101 at the > hwy85/Shoreline exit. > > The printer is now up and running 'serving' my network. > > {One small thing that I learned: for the network (tcp/ip) > configuration options to appear on the EIO configuration menu, the > printer has to be already connected to the network during power up. > The options didn't show up after my first power up because I hadn't > plugged in my ethernet cable until afterwards. A power cycle solved > the problem. > > I have been assuming that a print server must have a fixed IP but now > I'm not so sure. This one has a DHCP client (which I disabled) but I'm > now beginning to think that CUPS can 'find' it's printer by means > other than knowing its IP address (part of the IPP protocol > probably.)} I'm going to give you the general, complex overview, and then narrow down to specifics, so hold on, OK? The General Picture: Whether a fixed IP address is _necessary_ for a print server or for any other sort of network functionality depends on how you intend to get to the service in question. First of all, IP-based networking isn't the only type people use in the first place. As it happens, HP printers equipped with a JetDirect ethernet interface (as shown by the EIO config menu) will happily support any or all of the following network stacks -- as many of them as you choose to enable: TCP/IP IPX/SPX - used to be typical of Novell networks DLC/LLC aka NetBIOS over NBF - used to be typical of Microsoft/IBM networks AppleTalk/LocalTalk - used to be typical of Apple networks You'll see mention of all of those in the front panel's EIO Menu display. As you may have gathered, IP-based networking has largely supplanted everything else. But what is layered on _top_ of IP and TCP differs, which is what I'll cover next. Second, consider the types of printing that work over TCP/IP: IPP (which is what you almost certainly should use), LPD (obsolescent printing protocol from the Unix world, being joyfully discarded in favour of IPP), NetBIOS over TCP/IP aka NBT aka NetBT (Microsoft-style printing over TCP/IP, part of SMB aka CIFS and thus what Samba uses for printing). In all of those cases, however, the printer's being addressed needs to resolve down to an IP address, so the printer's IP needs to either remain fixed _or_ whatever's deciding how to talk to it needs to get advised whenever its IP changes and revise its addressing accordingly. So, for example, imagine that the printer's being addressed by hostname, and the hostname is defined at a home gateway appliance like a Linksys router that is doing _both_ local DNS and DHCP services for the LAN. It might have those two services integrated so that when the dhcpd changes the printer from IP 10.0.0.5 to 10.0.0.6, the local nameservice for "livingroom-printer" gets repointed to the new IP. In that case, it would not be _necessary_ for the printer to have a fixed IP, because the hostname used to refer to it always automagically resolves to the correct albeit dynamic IP. Third, a lot of casual use of TCP/IP in small networks, these days, is moving to ZeroConf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeroConf), a TCP/IP management protocol that lets devices autoconfigure their own IP addresses and let devices discover nearby services without the need for either DHCP or more-formal DNS. You seem to be saying that CUPS 'found' the printer even though you turned off the printer's DHCP client and didn't configure a static IP on it. That implies either that CUPS did ZeroConf discovery or perhaps that the printer just fell back on a default IP address and CUPS probed it. Either way, you might want to be a little more in charge. For one thing, ZeroConf is handy but not all that reliable. Your Specific Situation: You have a newly bought (used) HP Laserjet 4100N on your network. You've recently disabled its DHCP client functionality via its front panel, and want to configure CUPS on some workstation to print to it. The simplest way to do this is to configure the 4100N to use a fixed IP address you select. Then, configure the 4100N to publish either IPP or LPD printing services (and, if you wish, NetBIOS over TCP). Then, configure each computer on your LAN to print directly to the printer's IP address. Use an IP address not likely to be grabbed by anything else, e.g., not in your DHCP server's dynamic range. (I'll get back to that point below.) The 4100N has an embedded Web server that you can contact across the LAN to configure its IP address and its printing services. See page 251-254 of the manual: http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/CoreRedirect.jsp?redirectReason=DocIndexPDF&prodSeriesId=83436&targetPage=http%3A%2F%2Fbizsupport2.austin.hp.com%2Fbc%2Fdocs%2Fsupport%2FSupportManual%2Fbpl10335%2Fbpl10335.pdf Since I _believe_ HP printers default to being DHCP clients, you might want to configure your local DHCP server to hand out the desired IP address to it if, say, the printer loses its configuration and reverts to factory-default settings. I'm not sure what you're using for a DHCP server: In the standard Linux package, ISC's DHCPD, you would do this: In /etc/dhcpd.conf host livingroom-printer { hardware ethernet 00:24:ed:73:c2:8e; fixed-address 10.0.0.253; } You would have looked at your DHCP server's configuration and found that, say, it uses IP addresses 10.0.0.1 through 10.0.0.100 for its dynamic range. So, cool, anything above 100 should be free, so pick 253. And that would then be a reasonable IP to configure the printer itself to use as a static IP. Making the printer use a static IP (instead of DHCP), and having it publish printing services directly (instead of via a workstation's print server software) has the advantage of making its printing services be standalone, not dependent on anything else working properly. Which is A Good Thing. _And_, if nothing else, you should go into your workstation's CUPS configuration and _determine_ how it's talking to the printer, just so you know. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 21 13:21:22 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 13:21:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> <307660.74694.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100521202122.GK13000@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > Since I _believe_ HP printers default to being DHCP clients, you might > want to configure your local DHCP server to hand out the desired IP > address to it if, say, the printer loses its configuration and reverts > to factory-default settings. I'm not sure what you're using for a DHCP > server: In the standard Linux package, ISC's DHCPD, you would do this: > > > In /etc/dhcpd.conf > > host livingroom-printer { > hardware ethernet 00:24:ed:73:c2:8e; ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > fixed-address 10.0.0.253; > }a The actual hardware ethernet address (aka "MAC" address) of your printer's JetDirect ethernet port should be on a sticker next to the RJ-45 network jack. If not, you can probably find it via the front-panel EIO menu, or the printer's Web interface, or you can query it by doing "arp [printer IP]". From a_kleider at yahoo.com Fri May 21 15:51:25 2010 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 15:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <32393.73569.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> a_kleider at yahoo.com --- On Fri, 5/21/10, Rick Moen wrote: > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] network laser printer > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Friday, May 21, 2010, 12:38 PM > Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > > > Following the protocol recommended (and actually > carried out) by Rick, > > I decided upon an HP Laserjet 4100N offered on Craigs > List for $50. > > > > It was sold to me by a nice Russian guy called Paul, > who swaps out > > hardware for large companies and he has a ware house > full of printers > > (lots more of these as well.) His contact info is > 650-996-5829, > > vitalxs at gmail.com. > His place is in Mountain View just off 101 at the > > hwy85/Shoreline exit. > > > > The printer is now up and running 'serving' my > network. > > > > {One small thing that I learned: for the network > (tcp/ip) > > configuration options to appear on the EIO > configuration menu, the > > printer has to be already connected to the network > during power up. > > The options didn't show up after my first power up > because I hadn't > > plugged in my ethernet cable until afterwards. A power > cycle solved > > the problem. > > > > I have been assuming that a print server must have a > fixed IP but now > > I'm not so sure. This one has a DHCP client (which I > disabled) but I'm > > now beginning to think that CUPS can 'find' it's > printer by means > > other than knowing its IP address (part of the IPP > protocol > > probably.)} > > I'm going to give you the general, complex overview, and > then narrow > down to specifics, so hold on, OK? > > > > The General Picture: > > Whether a fixed IP address is _necessary_ for a print > server or for any > other sort of network functionality depends on how you > intend to get > to the service in question. > > First of all, IP-based networking isn't the only type > people use in the > first place.? As it happens, HP printers equipped with > a JetDirect > ethernet interface (as shown by the EIO config menu) will > happily > support any or all of the following network stacks -- as > many of them as > you choose to enable: > > TCP/IP > IPX/SPX - used to be typical of Novell networks > DLC/LLC aka NetBIOS over NBF - used to be typical of > Microsoft/IBM networks > AppleTalk/LocalTalk - used to be typical of Apple networks > > You'll see mention of all of those in the front panel's EIO > Menu > display. > > As you may have gathered, IP-based networking has largely > supplanted > everything else.? But what is layered on _top_ of IP > and TCP differs, > which is what I'll cover next. > > > Second, consider the types of printing that work over > TCP/IP:? IPP > (which is what you almost certainly should use), LPD > (obsolescent > printing protocol from the Unix world, being joyfully > discarded in > favour of IPP), NetBIOS over TCP/IP aka NBT aka NetBT > (Microsoft-style > printing over TCP/IP, part of SMB aka CIFS and thus what > Samba uses for > printing).? In all of those cases, however, the > printer's being > addressed needs to resolve down to an IP address, so the > printer's IP > needs to either remain fixed _or_ whatever's deciding how > to talk to it > needs to get advised whenever its IP changes and revise its > addressing > accordingly. > > So, for example, imagine that the printer's being addressed > by hostname, > and the hostname is defined at a home gateway appliance > like a Linksys > router that is doing _both_ local DNS and DHCP services for > the LAN. > It might have those two services integrated so that when > the dhcpd > changes the printer from IP 10.0.0.5 to 10.0.0.6, the local > nameservice > for "livingroom-printer" gets repointed to the new IP. > > In that case, it would not be _necessary_ for the printer > to have a > fixed IP, because the hostname used to refer to it always > automagically > resolves to the correct albeit dynamic IP. > > > Third, a lot of casual use of TCP/IP in small networks, > these days, is > moving to ZeroConf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeroConf), a TCP/IP > management protocol that lets devices autoconfigure their > own IP > addresses and let devices discover nearby services without > the need for > either DHCP or more-formal DNS. > > You seem to be saying that CUPS 'found' the printer even > though you > turned off the printer's DHCP client and didn't configure a > static IP on > it.? That implies either that CUPS did ZeroConf > discovery or perhaps > that the printer just fell back on a default IP address and > CUPS probed > it.? Either way, you might want to be a little more in > charge. > > For one thing, ZeroConf is handy but not all that > reliable. > My mistake for not being more clear. I _did_ configure the printer to have a static IP address (10.0.0.191) What surprised me is that I never had to tell CUPS what that address is. CUPS seemed to have figured it out by itself, presumably via one of the mechanisms you discuss. And again, thank you for that discussion. > > > > > Your Specific Situation: > > You have a newly bought (used) HP Laserjet 4100N on your > network. > You've recently disabled its DHCP client functionality via > its front > panel, and want to configure CUPS on some workstation to > print to it. > > The simplest way to do this is to configure the 4100N to > use a fixed > IP address you select.? Then, configure the 4100N to > publish either IPP > or LPD printing services (and, if you wish, NetBIOS over > TCP).? Then, > configure each computer on your LAN to print directly to > the printer's > IP address. > > Use an IP address not likely to be grabbed by anything > else, e.g., not > in your DHCP server's dynamic range.? (I'll get back > to that point > below.) > > The 4100N has an embedded Web server that you can contact > across the LAN > to configure its IP address and its printing > services.? See page 251-254 > of the manual: > > http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/CoreRedirect.jsp?redirectReason=DocIndexPDF&prodSeriesId=83436&targetPage=http%3A%2F%2Fbizsupport2.austin.hp.com%2Fbc%2Fdocs%2Fsupport%2FSupportManual%2Fbpl10335%2Fbpl10335.pdf > > > Since I _believe_ HP printers default to being DHCP > clients, you might > want to configure your local DHCP server to hand out the > desired IP > address to it if, say, the printer loses its configuration > and reverts > to factory-default settings.? I'm not sure what you're > using for a DHCP > server:? In the standard Linux package, ISC's DHCPD, > you would do this: > > > In /etc/dhcpd.conf > > host livingroom-printer { > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > hardware ethernet 00:24:ed:73:c2:8e; > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > fixed-address 10.0.0.253; > ? ? ? ? } > > You would have looked at your DHCP server's configuration > and found > that, say, it uses IP addresses 10.0.0.1 through 10.0.0.100 > for its > dynamic range.? So, cool, anything above 100 should be > free, so pick > 253.? And that would then be a reasonable IP to > configure the printer > itself to use as a static IP. > > Making the printer use a static IP (instead of DHCP), and > having it > publish printing services directly (instead of via a > workstation's print > server software) has the advantage of making its printing > services be > standalone, not dependent on anything else working > properly.? Which is > A Good Thing. I'm aware of the DHCP configuration that allows assignation of specific IP addresses based on MAC address and have in fact implemented that for the various laptops that visit my network (so that I can ssh and scp to/from them.) I am using dhcp3, as you suggest. > > _And_, if nothing else, you should go into your > workstation's CUPS > configuration and _determine_ how it's talking to the > printer, just so > you know. I will study that a bit more but I'm not sure how one can tell 'how' the host is 'talking' to the printer. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 21 16:10:55 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 16:10:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100508035438.GE6102@shallowsky.com> <307660.74694.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100521231055.GP13000@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > Making the printer use a static IP (instead of DHCP), and having it > publish printing services directly (instead of via a workstation's print > server software) has the advantage of making its printing services be > standalone, not dependent on anything else working properly. Which is > A Good Thing. Here's what I mean: Around 2006, I was helping out a small firm, which, one day, had had a brief power outage right before business hours. I came in just after 8 AM, and people all over the office, especially Sales and executive staff, reported that they couldn't print. First thing I did was print a test page from my Debian box to the nearby networked HP printer: I'd of course just used the printer's fixed IP address in CUPS as an LPD or IPP printer. The text page Just Worked. So, what was wrong with printing? Executive A had configured WinXP to use Executive B's workstation printer share for ExecPrinter onto Network Neighbourhood. Apparently, Executive B had apparently set up that share. Later, Executive A browsed Network Neighbourhood, saw an object labelled 'ExecPrinter', and thought 'Ah, that's what I want. I'll make that thing default' -- without bothering to notice that she wasn't printing directly to ExecPrinter at all, but rather relaying all jobs via a spool on someone's workstation. Executive A was in her office. Executive B wasn't -- and his workstation was switched off because of the power blip. So, his printer shares weren't online. All told, about 80% of the staff were going around saying 'My department's printer's offline', while said printer was in all cases happily functional and waiting for jobs -- because their workstations were pointlessly trying to route printing via powered-down PCs. It turned out that almost nobody in that office had bothered to ask IT help; they'd done it themselves -- and XP's method for setting up printing to JetDirect remote printers is so non-obvious they'd given up and used other people's workstation shares instead. Start -> Printers and Faxes -> Printer Tasks -> Add a Printer -> Local Printer. That's right: To set up a remote networked JetDirect printer on XP, you have to first select _local_ printers. The dialogue says: Select the option that describes the printer you want to use: (o) Local printer attached to this computer [ ] Automatically detect and install my Plug and Play printer ( ) A network printer, or a printer attached to another computer Then: Create a new port -> Standard TCP/IP Port -> Enter IP address. The driver queries the printer at this point across the network and fills in a TCP port, usually 9100. -> Finish -> Install Printer Software. Pick make/model to select driver. -> Name Your Printer -> Finish. But (almost) nobody had done that, so (almost) everyone had broken printing. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri May 21 17:22:57 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 17:22:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] network laser printer In-Reply-To: <32393.73569.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <20100521193825.GI13000@linuxmafia.com> <32393.73569.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100522002257.GA1322@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com): > My mistake for not being more clear. I _did_ configure the printer to have a static IP address (10.0.0.191). Aha. You'll want to double-check your DHCP daemon (on your gateway appliance, presumably) to ensure that 191 isn't within the range _it_ hands out as IP address leases. > What surprised me is that I never had to tell CUPS what that address > is. CUPS seemed to have figured it out by itself, presumably via one > of the mechanisms you discuss. Oh, I think it just attempts a connection to all valid IPs in the local IP netmask, looking for IPP devices, or something like that. Device discovery; the cups-deviced helper now runs backends in parallel for faster discovery and streams the results of discovery as the backends provide them. http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/whatsnew.html CUPS supports most network printers using one of three TCP/IP-based protocols. Printer discovery is currently accomplished using the SNMP protocol, however future versions of CUPS will also include support for multicast DNS service discovery as well. http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/network.html 'Multicast DNS service discovery' means ZeroConf and variations on it like Apple's Bonjour. > > _And_, if nothing else, you should go into your workstation's CUPS > > configuration and _determine_ how it's talking to the printer, just > > so you know. > > I will study that a bit more but I'm not sure how one can tell 'how' > the host is 'talking' to the printer. So, on my local Debian system, the built-in HTTP interface to CUPS is http://localhost:631/ . (There are other front-ends to CUPs, but that one's always present.) You select "Manage Printers". Mine shows exactly one printer object defined within CUPs: Description: OpsPrinter Location: Operations Printer Driver: HP Color LaserJet 3600 Foomatic/hpijs, hpijs 2.8.6b Printer State: idle, accepting jobs, published. Device URI: socket://10.15.14.188:9100 So, there you go. That's an example of printing directly from CUPS to a remote JetDirect-equipped HP printer. Notice the specifier that says TCP port 9100. Just to recreate how that got set up, I went back to the main CUPS Web page (http://localhost:631/), Administration, Add New Printer. Filled in: Name: Test Location: Test Description: Test Device for 'Test": (Pulldown menu). Select 'AppSocket/HP JetDirect'. You see a list of examples: Examples: http://hostname:631/ipp/ http://hostname:631/ipp/port1 ipp://hostname/ipp/ ipp://hostname/ipp/port1 lpd://hostname/queue socket://hostname socket://hostname:9100 So, since I'd gone over and verified at the printer itself that its IP address was 10.15.14.188, I entered: socket://10.15.14.188:9100 The ipp: and ldp: schemes would also work, but 'socket:' is the native method of talking to JetDirect-based print servers. The docs say that the http: printing method is a minor variation on IPP. (The micro-HTTPd built into CUPS provides a lot of helpful docs pages.) From mark at gidgetkitchen.org Sat May 22 16:46:27 2010 From: mark at gidgetkitchen.org (Mark Terranova) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 16:46:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Picnic + Geeks = Geeknic South Bay everyone is invited Message-ID: Everyone is invited to a picnic in the South Bay. The 1st geeknic was great, let's get even more folks this time. Vasona Lake County Park A nice park that is full of things to do! Lake, fields, frisbee and some nice shade trees to give us some. It also has a playground for the kids. The shallow areas of the creek are great place to cool off. There's a $6 parking fee (CARPOOL!) at Vasona. Follow the Penguin signs to the gathering More info http://gidgetkitchen.org/wiki/Geeknic2 End of the month is a get-together for FOSS folks; Fedora 13 Release Party - Walnut Creek May 30, 2010 3-7pm - Saxbys 1632 N Main St, next to City Hall https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F13_Bay_Area Ubuntu Hour after DVLUG on Friday, May 28th at 7pm. Cafe La Scalla, located at 1655 N Main St, Suitte 110, Walnut Creek. Sharing the spirit of Ubuntu with everybody Mark Terranova From grantbow at gmail.com Sat May 22 18:11:12 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 18:11:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In case folks in SF might consider crossing the bay. :-) Grant ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Grant Bowman" Date: May 21, 2010 2:50 PM Subject: Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's To: This is just a reminder that we are having our normal fourth Sunday of the month meeting noon-3pm at Bobby G's. Hope to see everyone there! The next one won't be until June 13th on the second Sunday so don't miss out this Sunday. Grant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Sat May 22 19:13:54 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 19:13:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1274580834.6744.174.camel@jim-laptop> what kind of meeting? group name? interests? speakers and other format info? On Sat, 2010-05-22 at 18:11 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote: > In case folks in SF might consider crossing the bay. :-) > > Grant > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: "Grant Bowman" > > Date: May 21, 2010 2:50 PM > > Subject: Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's > > To: > > > > This is just a reminder that we are having our normal fourth Sunday > > of > > the month meeting noon-3pm at Bobby G's. Hope to see everyone > > there! > > The next one won't be until June 13th on the second Sunday so don't > > miss out this Sunday. > > > > Grant > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat May 22 19:58:15 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 19:58:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's In-Reply-To: <1274580834.6744.174.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1274580834.6744.174.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Jim, Grant is referring to the Berkeley LUG group. The format is similar to SF-LUG; people just hanging out in a restraunt chatting. It's a very worthwhile group. The number of ppl is about 2x that of SF-LUG On May 22, 2010 7:27 PM, "jim" wrote: what kind of meeting? group name? interests? speakers and other format info? On Sat, 2010-05-22 at 18:11 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote: > In case folks in SF might consider cross... > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at gmail.com Sat May 22 23:11:35 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 23:11:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Berkeleylug.com Meeting Sunday, May 23rd at Bobby G's Message-ID: Hi Jim, I am sorry for not changing the topic and providing more context than I did when sending the berkeleylug.com mail list announcement. Christian's description was accurate. Thank you, Christian. Meetings take place on the 2nd and 4th Sunday of each month. Bobby G's Pizzeria is at 2072 University Avenue near the Downtown Berkeley BART station. Full details about the group, a link to the mail list and the blog are available at http://www.berkeleylug.com Regards, Grant On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Jim, Grant is referring to the Berkeley LUG group.? The format is similar to > SF-LUG; people just hanging out in a restraunt chatting.? It's a very > worthwhile group.? The number of ppl is about 2x that of SF-LUG > > On May 22, 2010 7:27 PM, "jim" wrote: > > > ? what kind of meeting? group name? interests? > speakers and other format info? > > > > On Sat, 2010-05-22 at 18:11 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote: >> In case folks in SF might consider cross... > >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From jim at well.com Tue May 25 16:20:48 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 25 May 2010 16:20:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, May 27, 2010: Django: Lessons Learned in the startup world Message-ID: <1274829648.7453.16.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, May 27, 2010: Django: Lessons Learned in the startup world Tonight's talk is * Django: Lessons Learned in the startup world by Barnaby Bienkowski Meetings usually start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: Debugging with PDB by Simeon Franklin LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: Debugging with PDB by Simeon Franklin ..... 7:45 PM to 8:40 PM (or so) ................ * Django: Lessons Learned in the startup world by Barnaby Bienkowski This talk starts with a high level overview of Django (a python web framework) and where it is used in the startup world then dives into an intermediate overview of which plugins and functionality to use when and where, for example, Pinax and Geodjango. * Pinax, an open-source platform built on the Django Web Framework, integrates reusable Django apps to provide features that many sites have in common, including social networking features with openID support * GeoDjango, a geographic web framework, lets you build GIS web applications and harness the power of spatially enabled data: "Bye bye MySQL, Hello PostGIS." Finally, a look at some python code demonstrates some really cool stuff. "There will be something for everyone here, so bring your friends." Barnaby Bienkowski is expert on early-stage software product development: "My primary objective is to develop software that addresses real requirements for real people. I bring to the table practical knowledge about software technology and a passion for filling unmet needs in the market, and I do so in ways that people find accessible and helpful." His current startup is Rubber Can, which provides a Reverse Auction where mechanics bid on your repair work. http://www.rubbercan.com/ barnaby at rubbercan.com Related Links http://pinaxproject.com/ http://geodjango.org/ http://www.gov2summit.com/gov2010 http://sunlightfoundation.com/ (Making Government Transparent and Accountable) ..... 8:50 PM to 9:30 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, events, and other topics. Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the announcements and other interests. From lyz at princessleia.com Thu May 27 13:31:37 2010 From: lyz at princessleia.com (Elizabeth Krumbach) Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 13:31:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu 10.04 Installfest at Noisebridge, Sunday May 30th, 11-5 Message-ID: Hey folks, Just wanted to drop the list a quick note in case the word hadn't been passed along at a meeting yet, the Ubuntu California team and the Noisebridge hackerspace in the Mission have teamed up to host an installfest for Ubuntu 10.04 this weekend over at Noisebridge, two blocks South of 16th & Mission BART: Date: Sunday May 30th Time: 11AM-5PM Location: Noisebridge, 2169 Mission St, San Francisco (there is a doorbell near the door) Details: Have a machine you want to install Ubuntu on? Have some problems with a current Ubuntu install you want to help fixing? Have general questions about Ubuntu and Linux you wish to have answered? Just want to bring along a system you've been meaning to upgrade to 10.04 and want some company while you do the upgrade? Want to volunteer to help, or just hang out? Join us! https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lucid_Lynx_Installfest Please bring all cables (and a monitor, if applicable) required to get your machine running, Noisebridge probably will have some equipment laying around but we don't want to depend upon using it. Cheers. -- Elizabeth Krumbach // Lyz // pleia2 http://www.princessleia.com From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Fri May 28 07:39:37 2010 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 07:39:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 13 release party Sunday in Walnut Creek Message-ID: Hi, all -- Mark Terranova and Chris Whitehorn are hosting a Fedora 13 release party in Walnut Creek on Sunday, May 30, from 3 to 7 p.m. at Saxby's, 1632 N. Main Street. If you can't make it across the bridge to Noisebridge on Sunday -- or for those who want to head over to Walnut Creek after attending the Noisebridge event -- there will be a presentation by Karsten Wade, media, swag, etc. For more information, visit https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Party_F13_Bay_Area Larry Cafiero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nbs at sonic.net Sat May 29 10:37:59 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 10:37:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Installfest workshop in Davis - Saturday, June 12th Message-ID: <201005291737.o4THbxOq013915@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis will be holding a free "Linux Installfest" workshop in Davis, California. When: Saturday, June 12, 2010 10:00am - 4:00pm Where: N Street Cohousing Common House 716 N Street Davis, California Maps/directions at: http://www.lugod.org/if/directions_nst.php What: Linux is a completely free, 'open source' operating system that can run on a wide variety of computer hardware. It can act as a web-, file-, print- or game-server, run in a 'cluster' of computers to do 3D rendering or other intense math, or sit under your TV and record your favorite shows for later viewing. Many people use it as an inexpensive, stable, virus- and spyware-free alternative to commercial software, such as Microsoft Windows. It can be installed over, or alongside, Windows or Mac OS X. Members of the community are invited to bring their computers and laptops to this informal workshop, and volunteers from LUGOD will help you install and configure Linux... for FREE! How: If you wish to bring in your PC, you must RSVP beforehand to reserve a space. The RSVP form, and lots of useful information about Linux and Installfests, and how to prepare for the event, are accessible on the web at: http://www.lugod.org/if/ Help! We're always looking for volunteers for our workshops. If you'd like to help, or come watch and learn as others are helped, please feel free to drop by. Our "vox-if" mailing list is where we discuss plans and needs for these events, so we encourage you to sign up: http://www.lugod.org/mailinglists/#vox-if ...or contact the Installfest coordinators directly via email: if at lugod.org About LUGOD: The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux operating; system and Open Source software, and which (along with holding Installfests) holds regular meetings with guest speakers each month in Davis, CA. For details, visit: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick LUGOD Public Relations Officer pr at lugod.org http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From jstrazza at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 09:34:29 2010 From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] For Linux lovers everywhere Message-ID: <683417.61372.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Walking thru the parking lot at the San Bruno Bart Station the other day... ? License Plate on Car... ? TAR XFCV ? Gotta love it.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 10:04:39 2010 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:04:39 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] For Linux lovers everywhere In-Reply-To: <683417.61372.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <683417.61372.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4C053DA7.3060001@gmail.com> rotfl you know he/she is old school because youngsters would use zxvf On 06/01/2010 09:34 AM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > > Walking thru the parking lot at the San Bruno Bart Station the other day... > License Plate on Car... > TAR XFCV > Gotta love it.... > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- Sent from my ASR-33 From bliss at sfo.com Tue Jun 1 10:22:53 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 10:22:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... Message-ID: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> "Google is phasing out the internal use of Microsoft?s ubiquitous Windows operating system because of security concerns, according to several Google employees." http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2f3f04e-6ccf-11df-91c8-00144feab49a.html Any use of Windows is subject to review by the Google managements. Macs and Linux will be the standards at Google. later Bobbie Sellers From cymraegish at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 18:07:56 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:07:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... In-Reply-To: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> Message-ID: Notice the last paragraph. Windows is often quoted as having ~80% of the market, however 1) Its more like the reverse of that or less in the server market (" 80% of the 'what' market"). 2) The figure is probably units, does not reflect user numbers in industry, or $ values, or even big university systems with thousands of users per site ... I tell people "you use Linux every day" -- whenever you use Google... Brian p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what Mac has done with BSD ? On 6/1/10, Bobbie Sellers wrote: > "Google is phasing out the internal use of Microsoft?s ubiquitous > Windows operating system because of security concerns, according to > several Google employees." > > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2f3f04e-6ccf-11df-91c8-00144feab49a.html > > > Any use of Windows is subject to review by the Google managements. > Macs and Linux will be the standards at Google. > > later > Bobbie Sellers > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From cymraegish at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 18:33:06 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] For Linux lovers everywhere In-Reply-To: <4C053DA7.3060001@gmail.com> References: <683417.61372.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4C053DA7.3060001@gmail.com> Message-ID: The c confuses things, didn't it always mean "create" ? thus conflicting with x ? Unless you want to think of it as C, which to me confuses things. anyway I would prefer xvjf as the new way, xvzf as the old way. maybe those were already taken. Brian On 6/1/10, Michael Shiloh wrote: > rotfl > > you know he/she is old school because youngsters would use zxvf > > On 06/01/2010 09:34 AM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: >> >> Walking thru the parking lot at the San Bruno Bart Station the other >> day... >> License Plate on Car... >> TAR XFCV >> Gotta love it.... >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > -- > Sent from my ASR-33 > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 18:50:31 2010 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:50:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) In-Reply-To: References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> Message-ID: <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what > Mac has done with BSD ? I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me spending any time to fix. Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer Vimperator (Firefox with VI control and no GUI) From jasonstone at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 19:00:54 2010 From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:00:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) In-Reply-To: <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael I too was having problems with Flash crashing after upgrading my Ubuntu installation to 10.04 (64bit Lucid). Firefox would crash entirely, but Chrome would only crash the particular window with an error. It would stay on the URL however, and would allow a reload. To resolve the issue, I followed the instructions at the URL below which essentially ran a shell script that removed competing binaries and allowed one installation to shine through... http://blog.mattrudge.net/2010/05/07/installing-flash-player-from-repository-on-ubuntu-10-04-64-bit/ and the direct link to the script... http://www.mattrudge.net/files/new-64bit-flash-installer.tar.gz Take a look, perhaps give it a shot. Maybe it will solve your problem. -jason On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Michael Shiloh wrote: > > > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > >> p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google >> employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what >> Mac has done with BSD ? > > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the Flash > viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me spending any time to > fix. > > Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer Vimperator (Firefox with > VI control and no GUI) > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 1 19:01:46 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) In-Reply-To: <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <751468.99607.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chrome has between 5.6% and 14.5% of the browser market. ________________________________ From: Michael Shiloh To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 6:50:31 PM Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what > Mac has done with BSD ? I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me spending any time to fix. Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer Vimperator (Firefox with VI control and no GUI) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jun 1 19:10:17 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:10:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) In-Reply-To: <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20100602021017.GK12592@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > >p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google > >employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what > >Mac has done with BSD ? > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the > Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. Brian's phrasing suggests he was asking about ChromeOS, not the Chrome Web browser. From cymraegish at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 21:27:56 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:27:56 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing out Microsoft products...) In-Reply-To: <20100602021017.GK12592@linuxmafia.com> References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> <20100602021017.GK12592@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: On 6/1/10, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): >> On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: >> >> >p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google >> >employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what >> >Mac has done with BSD ? >> >> I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the >> Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > Brian's phrasing suggests he was asking about ChromeOS, not the Chrome > Web browser. Yes, that is what I meant. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From brian.mcgroarty at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 22:08:20 2010 From: brian.mcgroarty at gmail.com (Brian McGroarty) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 22:08:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... In-Reply-To: References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what > Mac has done with BSD ? I've monkeyed with it a bit. In short: think web tablet with keyboard attached. Only the browser is presented, along with some very minimal configuration options. It's possible to get to the shell if you know the magic invocation (ctrl-alt-T from the login screen) but it's not clear that this will be part of the final configuration, and I haven't seen any documentation on how to get at it once logged in. There are a handful of browser changes to make the environment more usable as a desktop, such as undocking (untabbing?) some tabs and turning them into always-on-top floaters. I don't see any way of running installed apps if they aren't coded as browser plug-ins, and there's no sign of a generic window manager. Browser tabs and floater tabs are it. For things like IM, email, and other always-on apps, you're expected to use the left-most tabs, and select an option to pin the tabs. That leaves nothing but the site icon in the tab bar and might have made them resistant to ctrl-w closing (not certain here). Incidentally, your Google login is your desktop login. No separate user account is presented by the OS, unless you jump into the shell. Pretty much everything is synced to your Google account, presumably so you get the exact same setup regardless of what you log onto and where. I'm not actively following, but from the smattering of Google blog posts and talks I've seen, the goal is to make these run with just a few gigs of flash for storing the OS. If you see a Chrome OS netbook with a hard drive: they're doing it wrong. Even for things like photos, the assumption is that you want to copy straight from the flash card to Picassa or Flickr without storing a local copy. In their ideal machine, you can't even touch the built-in media or control the automatic OS updates without popping the battery out and flipping a hidden switch. I doubt anyone on this list should consider making it their main machine. But it sounds great for a light-use travel machine or something you can toss to a visitor at home. These things are going to be dirt cheap, zero maintenance, and usable for school and some kinds of business. They should be non-threatening to the kind of casual user who wants email, web, videos and little else. Does anyone know if some kind of Google marketplace is expected to land on Chrome OS as well? Also, any kind of machine certification planned? Is there any reason to think it won't show up with ARM, Loongson or other cheaper-than-dirt CPUs? From brian.mcgroarty at gmail.com Tue Jun 1 22:37:01 2010 From: brian.mcgroarty at gmail.com (Brian McGroarty) Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 22:37:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... In-Reply-To: References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Brian McGroarty wrote: > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: >> >> p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google >> employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what >> Mac has done with BSD ? > > I've monkeyed with it a bit. In short: think web tablet with keyboard attached. > > Only the browser is presented, along with some very minimal > configuration options. It's possible to get to the shell if you know > the magic invocation (ctrl-alt-T from the login screen) but it's not > clear that this will be part of the final configuration, and I haven't > seen any documentation on how to get at it once logged in. My memory was flakey on this bit. I just booted up my old install, and ctrl-alt-T does work from within Chrome OS. I don't see a way to get back to the browser without closing the shell, however. It's dpkg and apt-based, is so stripped down that even "man" isn't part of the normal setup, and definitely isn't intended to be part of a normal user's day. From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 2 09:05:40 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 09:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... In-Reply-To: References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> Message-ID: <538734.23199.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Chrome OS is meant to be a Browser OS only. It is not a full featured OS. You have to look to Android for that. A tablet and a couple of laptops based on Android are on the way. Why would would Google put a Browser only OS? There users are going mobile, and Google Apps. ________________________________ From: Brian McGroarty To: Brian Morris Cc: SF-LUG Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 10:08:20 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft products... On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what > Mac has done with BSD ? I've monkeyed with it a bit. In short: think web tablet with keyboard attached. Only the browser is presented, along with some very minimal configuration options. It's possible to get to the shell if you know the magic invocation (ctrl-alt-T from the login screen) but it's not clear that this will be part of the final configuration, and I haven't seen any documentation on how to get at it once logged in. There are a handful of browser changes to make the environment more usable as a desktop, such as undocking (untabbing?) some tabs and turning them into always-on-top floaters. I don't see any way of running installed apps if they aren't coded as browser plug-ins, and there's no sign of a generic window manager. Browser tabs and floater tabs are it. For things like IM, email, and other always-on apps, you're expected to use the left-most tabs, and select an option to pin the tabs. That leaves nothing but the site icon in the tab bar and might have made them resistant to ctrl-w closing (not certain here). Incidentally, your Google login is your desktop login. No separate user account is presented by the OS, unless you jump into the shell. Pretty much everything is synced to your Google account, presumably so you get the exact same setup regardless of what you log onto and where. I'm not actively following, but from the smattering of Google blog posts and talks I've seen, the goal is to make these run with just a few gigs of flash for storing the OS. If you see a Chrome OS netbook with a hard drive: they're doing it wrong. Even for things like photos, the assumption is that you want to copy straight from the flash card to Picassa or Flickr without storing a local copy. In their ideal machine, you can't even touch the built-in media or control the automatic OS updates without popping the battery out and flipping a hidden switch. I doubt anyone on this list should consider making it their main machine. But it sounds great for a light-use travel machine or something you can toss to a visitor at home. These things are going to be dirt cheap, zero maintenance, and usable for school and some kinds of business. They should be non-threatening to the kind of casual user who wants email, web, videos and little else. Does anyone know if some kind of Google marketplace is expected to land on Chrome OS as well? Also, any kind of machine certification planned? Is there any reason to think it won't show up with ARM, Loongson or other cheaper-than-dirt CPUs? _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xolzscxux at yahoo.com Wed Jun 2 10:45:11 2010 From: xolzscxux at yahoo.com (Charles Holzschuh) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, chrome In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <891135.34035.qm@web52006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I have been using chrome for about two years. Love it. It uses much less screen area. --- On Tue, 6/1/10, sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com wrote: > From: sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com > Subject: sf-lug Digest, Vol 53, Issue 2 > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 10:08 PM > Send sf-lug mailing list submissions > to > ??? sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > ??? sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ???1. Re: Google phasing out Microsoft > products... (Brian Morris) > ???2. Re: For Linux lovers everywhere (Brian > Morris) > ???3. Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing > out Microsoft > ? ? ? products...) (Michael Shiloh) > ???4. Re: Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out Microsoft > ? ? ? products...) (jason stone) > ???5. Re: Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out Microsoft > ? ? ? products...) (vincent polite) > ???6. Re: Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out Microsoft > ? ? ? products...) (Rick Moen) > ???7. Re: Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out Microsoft > ? ? ? products...) (Brian Morris) > ???8. Re: Google phasing out Microsoft > products... (Brian McGroarty) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:07:56 -0700 > From: Brian Morris > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft > products... > To: bliss at sfo.com > Cc: SF-LUG > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Notice the last paragraph. > > Windows is often quoted as having ~80% of the market, > however > > 1) Its more like the reverse of that or less in the server > market > (" 80% of the 'what' market"). > > 2) The figure is probably units, does not reflect user > numbers in > industry, or $ values, or even big university systems with > thousands > of users per site ... > > I tell people "you use Linux every day" -- whenever you > use Google... > > Brian > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside > of Google > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more > like what > Mac has done with BSD ? > > > > On 6/1/10, Bobbie Sellers > wrote: > > "Google is phasing out the internal use of Microsoft?s > ubiquitous > > Windows operating system because of security concerns, > according to > > several Google employees." > > > > http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d2f3f04e-6ccf-11df-91c8-00144feab49a.html > > > > > >? ? ? Any use of Windows is subject to > review by the Google managements. > > Macs and Linux will be the standards at Google. > > > >? ? ? later > >? ? ? Bobbie Sellers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:33:06 -0700 > From: Brian Morris > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] For Linux lovers everywhere > To: michael at michaelshiloh.com > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > The c confuses things, didn't it always mean "create" ? > thus > conflicting with x ? Unless you want to think of it as C, > which to me > confuses things. > > anyway I would prefer xvjf as the new way, xvzf as the old > way. > > maybe those were already taken. > > Brian > > > > On 6/1/10, Michael Shiloh > wrote: > > rotfl > > > > you know he/she is old school because youngsters would > use zxvf > > > > On 06/01/2010 09:34 AM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: > >> > >> Walking thru the parking lot at the San Bruno Bart > Station the other > >> day... > >> License Plate on Car... > >> TAR XFCV > >> Gotta love it.... > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > -- > > Sent from my ASR-33 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:50:31 -0700 > From: Michael Shiloh > Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing > out Microsoft > ??? products...) > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <4C05B8E7.4010802 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; > format=flowed > > > > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome > (outside of Google > > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it > more like what > > Mac has done with BSD ? > > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some > reason the Flash > viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me > spending any > time to fix. > > Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer > Vimperator (Firefox > with VI control and no GUI) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:00:54 -0700 > From: jason stone > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out > ??? Microsoft??? > products...) > To: michael at michaelshiloh.com > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Michael > > I too was having problems with Flash crashing after > upgrading my > Ubuntu installation to 10.04 (64bit Lucid).? Firefox > would crash > entirely, but Chrome would only crash the particular window > with an > error.? It would stay on the URL however, and would > allow a reload. > > To resolve the issue, I followed the instructions at the > URL below > which essentially ran a shell script that removed competing > binaries > and allowed one installation to shine through... > > http://blog.mattrudge.net/2010/05/07/installing-flash-player-from-repository-on-ubuntu-10-04-64-bit/ > and the direct link to the script... > http://www.mattrudge.net/files/new-64bit-flash-installer.tar.gz > > Take a look, perhaps give it a shot.? Maybe it will > solve your problem. > > -jason > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Michael Shiloh > > wrote: > > > > > > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > > >> p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome > (outside of Google > >> employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is > it more like what > >> Mac has done with BSD ? > > > > > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some > reason the Flash > > viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > > > I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth > me spending any time to > > fix. > > > > Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer > Vimperator (Firefox with > > VI control and no GUI) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:01:46 -0700 (PDT) > From: vincent polite > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out > ??? Microsoft??? > products...) > To: michael at michaelshiloh.com, > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <751468.99607.qm at web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Chrome has between 5.6% and 14.5% of the browser market. > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Michael Shiloh > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Sent: Tue, June 1, 2010 6:50:31 PM > Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google phasing > out Microsoft products...) > > > > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome > (outside of Google > > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it > more like what > > Mac has done with BSD ? > > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some > reason the Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me > spending any time to fix. > > Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer > Vimperator (Firefox with VI control and no GUI) > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 19:10:17 -0700 > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out > ??? Microsoft products...) > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <20100602021017.GK12592 at linuxmafia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > > On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > > > > >p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome > (outside of Google > > >employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is > it more like what > > >Mac has done with BSD ? > > > > I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some > reason the > > Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > Brian's phrasing suggests he was asking about ChromeOS, not > the Chrome > Web browser. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 21:27:56 -0700 > From: Brian Morris > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google Chrome (was: Re: Google > phasing out > ??? Microsoft??? > products...) > To: Rick Moen > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 6/1/10, Rick Moen > wrote: > > Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com): > >> On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: > >> > >> >p.s. Is anyone out there actually running > Chrome (outside of Google > >> >employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or > is it more like what > >> >Mac has done with BSD ? > >> > >> I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For > some reason the > >> Flash viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. > > > > Brian's phrasing suggests he was asking about > ChromeOS, not the Chrome > > Web browser. > > Yes, that is what I meant. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 22:08:20 -0700 > From: Brian McGroarty > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Google phasing out Microsoft > products... > To: Brian Morris > Cc: SF-LUG > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Brian Morris > wrote: > > > > p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome > (outside of Google > > employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it > more like what > > Mac has done with BSD ? > > I've monkeyed with it a bit. In short: think web tablet > with keyboard attached. > > Only the browser is presented, along with some very > minimal > configuration options. It's possible to get to the shell if > you know > the magic invocation (ctrl-alt-T from the login screen) but > it's not > clear that this will be part of the final configuration, > and I haven't > seen any documentation on how to get at it once logged in. > > There are a handful of browser changes to make the > environment more > usable as a desktop, such as undocking (untabbing?) some > tabs and > turning them into always-on-top floaters. I don't see any > way of > running installed apps if they aren't coded as browser > plug-ins, and > there's no sign of a generic window manager. Browser tabs > and floater > tabs are it. For things like IM, email, and other always-on > apps, > you're expected to use the left-most tabs, and select an > option to pin > the tabs. That leaves nothing but the site icon in the tab > bar and > might have made them resistant to ctrl-w closing (not > certain here). > > Incidentally, your Google login is your desktop login. No > separate > user account is presented by the OS, unless you jump into > the shell. > Pretty much everything is synced to your Google account, > presumably so > you get the exact same setup regardless of what you log > onto and > where. > > I'm not actively following, but from the smattering of > Google blog > posts and talks I've seen, the goal is to make these run > with just a > few gigs of flash for storing the OS. If you see a Chrome > OS netbook > with a hard drive: they're doing it wrong. Even for things > like > photos, the assumption is that you want to copy straight > from the > flash card to Picassa or Flickr without storing a local > copy. In their > ideal machine, you can't even touch the built-in media or > control the > automatic OS updates without popping the battery out and > flipping a > hidden switch. > > I doubt anyone on this list should consider making it their > main > machine. But it sounds great for a light-use travel machine > or > something you can toss to a visitor at home. These things > are going to > be dirt cheap, zero maintenance, and usable for school and > some kinds > of business. They should be non-threatening to the kind of > casual user > who wants email, web, videos and little else. > > Does anyone know if some kind of Google marketplace is > expected to > land on Chrome OS as well? Also, any kind of machine > certification > planned? Is there any reason to think it won't show up with > ARM, > Loongson or other cheaper-than-dirt CPUs? > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 53, Issue 2 > ************************************* > From nbs at sonic.net Wed Jun 2 15:09:10 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (nbs) Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 15:09:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Users' Group of Davis, June 21: "Introduction to IPv6 Socket Programming" Message-ID: <201006022209.o52M9AFJ026586@bolt.sonic.net> The Linux Users' Group of Davis (LUGOD) will be holding its next meeting on: Monday June 21, 2010 7:00pm - 9:00pm The meeting will be held at: Explorit Science Center (Mace Ranch Facility) 3141 5th Street Davis, California 95616 Presentation: Introduction to IPv6 Socket Programming Presented by: Owen DeLong, Hurricane Electric of Fremont Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) is an Internet Layer protocol for packet-switched internetworks, meant to succeed the current IPv4 (which will run out of addresses in the near future). This talk will be an introduction to porting applications from IPv4-only to IPv4/IPv6 dual-stack, and will include working code examples. About the speaker: Owen DeLong is an IPv6 Evangelist at Hurricane Electric, the leading IPv6 Provider. He is also a member of the ARIN Advisory Council. He brings over 20 years of experience in TCP/IP networking and UNIX systems administration. In addition, he is also an Open Water SCUBA Instructor, a Commercial Pilot, and holds a level 2 High Power Rocketry certification. For more details on this meeting, visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ For maps, directions, public transportation schedules, etc., visit: http://www.lugod.org/meeting/explorit/ About LUGOD: The Linux Users' Group of Davis is a 501(c)7 non-profit organization dedicated to the Linux computer operating system and other Open Source and Free Software. Since 1999, LUGOD has held regular meetings with guest speakers in Davis, California, as well as other events in Davis and the greater Sacramento region. Events are always free and open to the public. Please visit our website for more details: http://www.lugod.org/ -- Bill Kendrick pr at lugod.org Public Relations Officer Linux Users' Group of Davis http://www.lugod.org/ (Your address: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com ) From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Wed Jun 2 20:24:33 2010 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 20:24:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Google Chrome In-Reply-To: References: <4C0541ED.7040901@sfo.com> <4C05B8E7.4010802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4C072071.8030702@michaelshiloh.com> Thanks. That seems to be 64 bit only, and, as I said, I don't care enough about viewing Flash to fix this. I'll wait until they get it fixed in Ubuntu... On 06/01/2010 07:00 PM, jason stone wrote: > Hi Michael > > I too was having problems with Flash crashing after upgrading my > Ubuntu installation to 10.04 (64bit Lucid). Firefox would crash > entirely, but Chrome would only crash the particular window with an > error. It would stay on the URL however, and would allow a reload. > > To resolve the issue, I followed the instructions at the URL below > which essentially ran a shell script that removed competing binaries > and allowed one installation to shine through... > > http://blog.mattrudge.net/2010/05/07/installing-flash-player-from-repository-on-ubuntu-10-04-64-bit/ > and the direct link to the script... > http://www.mattrudge.net/files/new-64bit-flash-installer.tar.gz > > Take a look, perhaps give it a shot. Maybe it will solve your problem. > > -jason > > > > On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Michael Shiloh > wrote: >> >> >> On 06/01/2010 06:07 PM, Brian Morris wrote: >> >>> p.s. Is anyone out there actually running Chrome (outside of Google >>> employees) ? How is it, is it really Linux, or is it more like what >>> Mac has done with BSD ? >> >> >> I use Chrome whenever I need to view Youtube. For some reason the Flash >> viewer keeps crashing on Firefox. >> >> I generally hate Youtube and Flash so it's not worth me spending any time to >> fix. >> >> Do I like it? It seems pretty snappy, but I prefer Vimperator (Firefox with >> VI control and no GUI) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > From john_re at fastmail.us Fri Jun 4 03:04:03 2010 From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:04:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BerkeleyTIP Join June Global Free SW HW Culture Mtgs via VOIP or in Berkeley Message-ID: <1275645843.6259.1378441381@webmail.messagingengine.com> You're invited to join in with the friendly people at the BerkeleyTIP global meeting - newbie to Ph.D. - everyone is invited. Get a headset & join using VOIP online, or come to Berkeley. 1st step: Join the mailing list: http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal Watch the videos. Discuss them on VOIP. 8 great videos/talks this month - see below. Starting off year 3 of BerkeleyTIP :) Join with us at the LOCATION TO BE DETERMINED at the University of California at Berkeley, or join from your home via VOIP, or send this email locally, create a local meeting, & join via VOIP: Tip: a wifi cafe is a great place to meet. :) JUNE 5 & 20 AT UCB MEETING LOCATIONS TO BE DETERMINED. PLEASE VIEW THE BTIP WEBSITE & MAILING LIST PAGES FOR THE LATEST DETIALS. http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal BerkeleyTIP - Educational, Productive, Social For Learning about, Sharing, & Producing, All Free SW HW & Culture. TIP == Talks, Installfest, Project & Programming Party http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip ===== CONTENTS: 1) 2010 JUNE VIDEOS; 2) 2010 JUNE MEETING DAYS, TIMES, LOCATIONS; 3) LOCAL MEETING AT U. C. Berkeley LOCATION TO BE DETERMINED; 4) HOT TOPICS; 5) PLEASE RSVP PROBABILISTICALLY, THANKS :) ; 6) INSTALLFEST; SPECIAL: FREE 7th Annual BERKELEY WORLD MUSIC FESTIVAL June 5 Sat; 7) ARRIVING FIRST AT THE MEETING: MAKE A "BerkeleyTIP" SIGN; 8) IRC: #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net; 9) VOIP FOR GLOBAL MEETING; 10) VOLUNTEERING, TO DOs; 11) MAILING LISTS: BerkeleyTIP-Global, LocalBerkeley, Announce; 12) ANYTHING I FORGOT TO MENTION?; 13) FOR FORWARDING ======================================================================= ===== 1) 2010 JUNE VIDEOS Super Computing for Business, Brian Modra, CLUG State of the Linux Union 2010, Jim Zemlin, Linux Foundation Journaled Soft-Updates, Dr. Kirk McKusick, BSDCan 2010 Scientific data visualization using Mayavi2, Gael Varoquaux, Python4ScienceUCB Bringing OLPC to children in Afghanistan, Carol Ruth Silver, OLPC-SF Text-to-Speech in Ubuntu with Kttsd Kmouth Festival, blip.tv Rabbi Rabbs, the UnixRabbi, leads a group of Unix geeks, Comedy, UUASC, BS"D, 2003 The Great Debate - Are We Alone?, Geoff Marcy and Dan Werthimer, SETI at UC Berkeley Thanks to all the speakers, organizations, & videographers. :) [Please alert the speakers that their talks are scheduled for June for BTIP (if you are with the group that recorded their talk), because I may not have time to do that. Thanks. :) ] URLs for video download & full details: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos Download & watch these talks before the BTIP meetings. Discuss at the meeting. Email the mailing list, tell us what videos you'll watch & want to discuss: http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal Know any other video sources? - please email me. _Your_ group should video record & post online your meeting's talks! ===== 2) 2010 JUNE MEETING DAYS, TIMES, LOCATIONS In person meetings on 1st Saturday & 3rd Sunday, every month. June 5 & 20, 12N-3P USA-Pacific time, Saturday, Sunday Online only meeting using VOIP: June 14 & 29, 5-6P USA-Pacific time, Monday, Tuesday Mark your calendars. 5 Sat 12N-3P PDST = 3-6P EDST = 19-22 UTC 14 Mon 5-6P PDST = 8-9P EDST = 0- 1 UTC Tues 15 20 Sun 12N-3P PDST = 3-6P EDST = 19-22 UTC 29 Tues 5-6P PDST = 8-9P EDST = 0- 1 UTC Wed 30 USA-PacificDaylightSavingsTime is -7 hours UTC, due to daylight savings currently. Times listed above should be double checked by you for accuracy. ===== 3) LOCAL MEETING AT U. C. BERKELEY - LOCATION TO BE DETERMINED http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions RSVP please. See below. It greatly helps my planning. But, _do_ come if you forgot to RSVP. THE JUNE 5 & 20 ON CAMPUS MEETING LOCATIONS ARE CURRENTLY TO BE DETERMINED. HOPEFULLY KNOW ON FRIDAY JUNE 4. PLEASE VIEW THE BTIP WEBSITE & MAILING LIST FOR THE FINALIZED LOCATION. THANK YOU. ALWAYS BE SURE TO CHECK THE BTIP WEBSITE _&_ MAILING LIST FOR THE LATEST LAST MINUTE DETAILS & CHANGES, BEFORE COMING TO THE MEETING! :) http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal DO BRING A VOIP HEADSET, available for $10-30 at most electronics retail stores, & a laptop computer, so you are able to communicate with the global BTIP community via VOIP. It is highly recommended that you have a voip headset, & not rely on a laptop's built in microphone & speakers, because the headphones keep the noise level down. Bringing a headset is not required, but is a great part of the being able to communicate with the global community. :) Clothing: Typically 55-80 degrees F. Weather: http://www.wunderground.com/auto/sfgate/CA/Berkeley.html Other location local meeting possibilities: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/local-meetings Create a local meeting in your town. ===== 4) HOT TOPICS Oracle owns Sun - Free SW implications? OpenOffice? OpenOffice - Ready for college Fall 2010? MakerBot, RepRap - Personal Making - Like where PCs were in 1975? Android phones - Besting iPhone? worthwhile? How knowable is the hw? - Can BSD be run on Android phones? iPad, iPhone & iPod- rooting & running GNU(Linux) & BSD ===== 5) PLEASE RSVP PROBABILISTICALLY, THANKS :) If you think there is a >70% chance ("likely") you'll come to the in person meeting in Berkeley, please RSVP to me. Thanks. It helps my planning. Please _do_ come even if you haven't RSVP'd, it's not required. Better yet, join the BerkeleyTIP-Global mailing list, send the RSVP there, & tell us what things you're interested in, or what videos you'll try to watch - so we can know what videos are popular, & we might watch them too. :) http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal ===== 6) INSTALLFEST Get help installing & using Free Software, Hardware & Culture. Laptops only, typically. There isn't easy access for physically bringing desktop boxes here. RSVP _HIGHLY RECOMMENDED_ if you want installfest help. Please RSVP to me, Giovanni, at the from address for this announcement, or better, join & send email to the BTIP-Global mailing list telling us what you'd like help with. This way we can be better prepared to help you, & you might get valuable advice from the mailing list members. If you are new to using free software, an excellent system would be the KUbuntu GNU(Linux) software. It is very comprehensive, fairly easy to use (similar to Windows or Mac), & suitable for personal, home, university, or business use. We are also glad to try to help people with software who join via VOIP. Please email the mailing list with requests that you want help with, so we can try to be prepared better to help you. Installfest volunteers/helpers always welcome, in person, or via VOIP. :) ===== SPECIAL - MUSIC IN BERKELEY JUNE 5 SATURDAY ===== Also June 5 Sat in Berkeley, after BTIP: ===== FREE 7th Annual BERKELEY WORLD MUSIC FESTIVAL ===== Telegraph Avenue 12 Noon - 9 pm "Berkeley World Music Fest... has some of our best world musicians who call East Bay home...a wonderful event, and intimate, mix of outdoor performances in cafes and shops(the best music People's Park gets each year along Telegraph Ave. (Larry Kelp, KPFA music host)" Continuous music outdoors & in cafes http://www.berkeleyworldmusic.com/entry.asp?PageID=118 ===== 7) ARRIVING FIRST AT THE MEETING: MAKE A "BerkeleyTIP" SIGN If you get to the meeting & don't see a "BerkeleyTIP" sign up yet, please: 1) Make a BTIP sign on an 8x11 paper & put it at your table, 2) Email the mailing list, or join on IRC, & let us know you are there. Ask someone if you could use their computer for a minute to look something up, or send an email. People are usually very friendly & willing to help. We can also email you a temporary guest AirBears account login. We will have wifi guest accounts available for BTIP attendees. Be sure you have wifi capable equipment. Be Prepared: Bring a multi-outlet extension power cord. ===== 8) IRC: #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net For help with anything, especially how to get VOIP working, & text communication. ===== 9) VOIP FOR GLOBAL MEETING Speak & listen to everyone globally using VOIP. Get a headset! See some VOIP instructions here: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/voice-voip-conferencing ===== 10) VOLUNTEERING, TO DOs Enjoy doing or learning something(s)? Help out BTIP in that area. Website development, mailing list management, video locating, VOIP server (FreeSwitch, Asterisk) or client (Ekiga, SFLPhone,...), creating a local meeting. Join the mailing list & let us know. Your offers of free help are always welcome here. :) ===== 11) MAILING LISTS: BerkeleyTIP-Global, LocalBerkeley, Announce Everyone should join the BerkeleyTIP-Global list: http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal Say "hi", tell us your interests, & what videos you'll like to watch. Info on all lists here: http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/mailing-lists ===== 12) ANYTHING I FORGOT TO MENTION? Please join & email the BerkeleyTIP-Global mailing list. ===== 13) FOR FORWARDING You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be appreciated. Better yet, use it to create a local meeting. Invite & get together with your friends locally, & join in with us all globally. :) Looking forward to meeting with you in person, or online. :) Giovanni From bliss at sfo.com Fri Jun 4 07:37:35 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 07:37:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting this Sunday Message-ID: <4C090FAF.8030401@sfo.com> SF-LUG has a regularly scheduled meeting this Sunday June 6 at Cafe Enchante, 26th Avenue & Geary Boulevard from 11 AM to 1 PM nominally. This meeting is live and in person and unless someone comes up with a project will not be video recorded or available at any point on line. :-) Hope you all can make it. later Bobbie Sellers From einfeldt at gmail.com Mon Jun 7 15:55:04 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:55:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! Message-ID: hi, I just heard from one of the staffers that St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux (Ubuntu) in its computer lab. I don't have the details yet as to how they are using the machines; nor as to whether the machines are dual booted; or what version of Ubuntu they are using. It is my understanding that they are dual-booting the 35 machines that they have in their lab. I hope to get the details soon. However, as a result of this progress, they are no longer going to be holding stand alone machines in storage for their quarterly tech demos. This means that they are going to need to clean out their storage of the 7 computers and 10 monitors. We will need to pick up those machines before June 18, or those machines will be e-wasted, which would be a shame. We could certainly use those machines elsewhere in our outreach effort. Rather than allow those machines to go to waste, we could move them to the Creative Arts School, and then then they will become part of our inventory and be given out to other schools or students or used right there at Creative Arts. In fact, Creative Arts is planning to expand their video-editing work, following this year's success with Maria Jenerik (one of the teachers) using Linux for video editing. But we will need volunteers and a truck sometime before Friday, June 18, or the machines will be lost. We are unfortunately going to need the volunteers and truck during a weekday, because St. Anthony is not open on the weekend. Thanks for considering my request! -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Mon Jun 7 17:36:00 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:36:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1275957360.2725.2.camel@jim-laptop> i'm sure i can find some crack of time between now and june 18 to lend the use of my honda element and self to move the machines from st. a's to where ever else. i'd be happy if someone would come along and keep me company, maybe carry a few of the things. On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 15:55 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > hi, > > > I just heard from one of the staffers that St. Anthony is using > GNU-Linux (Ubuntu) in its computer lab. I don't have the details yet > as to how they are using the machines; nor as to whether the machines > are dual booted; or what version of Ubuntu they are using. It is my > understanding that they are dual-booting the 35 machines that they > have in their lab. I hope to get the details soon. > > > However, as a result of this progress, they are no longer going to be > holding stand alone machines in storage for their quarterly tech > demos. This means that they are going to need to clean out their > storage of the 7 computers and 10 monitors. We will need to pick up > those machines before June 18, or those machines will be e-wasted, > which would be a shame. We could certainly use those machines > elsewhere in our outreach effort. > > > Rather than allow those machines to go to waste, we could move them to > the Creative Arts School, and then then they will become part of our > inventory and be given out to other schools or students or used right > there at Creative Arts. In fact, Creative Arts is planning to expand > their video-editing work, following this year's success with Maria > Jenerik (one of the teachers) using Linux for video editing. > > > But we will need volunteers and a truck sometime before Friday, June > 18, or the machines will be lost. We are unfortunately going to need > the volunteers and truck during a weekday, because St. Anthony is not > open on the weekend. > > > Thanks for considering my request! > > -- > Christian Einfeldt, > Producer, The Digital Tipping Point > From anth1y at gmail.com Tue Jun 8 12:08:54 2010 From: anth1y at gmail.com (Anthony Riley) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 12:08:54 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (Anthony Riley) Message-ID: I , would love to lend a hand to help in anyway necessary. On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:00 PM, wrote: > Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (Christian Einfeldt) > 2. Re: St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (jim) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 15:55:04 -0700 > From: Christian Einfeldt > Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! > To: sf-lug > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > hi, > > I just heard from one of the staffers that St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux > (Ubuntu) in its computer lab. I don't have the details yet as to how they > are using the machines; nor as to whether the machines are dual booted; or > what version of Ubuntu they are using. It is my understanding that they > are > dual-booting the 35 machines that they have in their lab. I hope to get > the > details soon. > > However, as a result of this progress, they are no longer going to be > holding stand alone machines in storage for their quarterly tech demos. > This means that they are going to need to clean out their storage of the 7 > computers and 10 monitors. We will need to pick up those machines before > June 18, or those machines will be e-wasted, which would be a shame. We > could certainly use those machines elsewhere in our outreach effort. > > Rather than allow those machines to go to waste, we could move them to the > Creative Arts School, and then then they will become part of our inventory > and be given out to other schools or students or used right there at > Creative Arts. In fact, Creative Arts is planning to expand their > video-editing work, following this year's success with Maria Jenerik (one > of > the teachers) using Linux for video editing. > > But we will need volunteers and a truck sometime before Friday, June 18, or > the machines will be lost. We are unfortunately going to need the > volunteers and truck during a weekday, because St. Anthony is not open on > the weekend. > > Thanks for considering my request! > > -- > Christian Einfeldt, > Producer, The Digital Tipping Point > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20100607/f13cc229/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:36:00 -0700 > From: jim > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! > To: Christian Einfeldt > Cc: sf-lug > Message-ID: <1275957360.2725.2.camel at jim-laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > i'm sure i can find some crack of time > between now and june 18 to lend the use > of my honda element and self to move the > machines from st. a's to where ever else. > i'd be happy if someone would come > along and keep me company, maybe carry a > few of the things. > > > > On Mon, 2010-06-07 at 15:55 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > hi, > > > > > > I just heard from one of the staffers that St. Anthony is using > > GNU-Linux (Ubuntu) in its computer lab. I don't have the details yet > > as to how they are using the machines; nor as to whether the machines > > are dual booted; or what version of Ubuntu they are using. It is my > > understanding that they are dual-booting the 35 machines that they > > have in their lab. I hope to get the details soon. > > > > > > However, as a result of this progress, they are no longer going to be > > holding stand alone machines in storage for their quarterly tech > > demos. This means that they are going to need to clean out their > > storage of the 7 computers and 10 monitors. We will need to pick up > > those machines before June 18, or those machines will be e-wasted, > > which would be a shame. We could certainly use those machines > > elsewhere in our outreach effort. > > > > > > Rather than allow those machines to go to waste, we could move them to > > the Creative Arts School, and then then they will become part of our > > inventory and be given out to other schools or students or used right > > there at Creative Arts. In fact, Creative Arts is planning to expand > > their video-editing work, following this year's success with Maria > > Jenerik (one of the teachers) using Linux for video editing. > > > > > > But we will need volunteers and a truck sometime before Friday, June > > 18, or the machines will be lost. We are unfortunately going to need > > the volunteers and truck during a weekday, because St. Anthony is not > > open on the weekend. > > > > > > Thanks for considering my request! > > > > -- > > Christian Einfeldt, > > Producer, The Digital Tipping Point > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 53, Issue 6 > ************************************* > -- Anthony Riley II (415)407.9687 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjhelmrick at gmail.com Tue Jun 8 13:57:21 2010 From: mjhelmrick at gmail.com (Matt Helmrick) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:57:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] newb Message-ID: Thanks to Grant and everyone that welcomed me to my first SF LUG meeting on Sunday. I hope to see you all at more functions in the future. -Matt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlisam at gmail.com Tue Jun 8 15:18:46 2010 From: rlisam at gmail.com (Roderick Lisam) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 15:18:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (rod) Message-ID: I can be available to help also. I have a little pickup truck. > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 17:36:00 -0700 > From: jim > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! > To: Christian Einfeldt > Cc: sf-lug > Message-ID: <1275957360.2725.2.camel at jim-laptop> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > i'm sure i can find some crack of time > between now and june 18 to lend the use > of my honda element and self to move the > machines from st. a's to where ever else. > i'd be happy if someone would come > along and keep me company, maybe carry a > few of the things. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 53, Issue 6 > ************************************* > -- Roderick Lisam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wellmanron at gmail.com Tue Jun 8 22:45:46 2010 From: wellmanron at gmail.com (ron wellman) Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 22:45:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (jim) Message-ID: Jim, *If we can work out the time I'd be glad to assist you. Ron Wellman * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Jun 9 09:14:10 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:14:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] St. Anthony is using GNU-Linux! (jim) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am preparing for a trial, and so I am trying to get St. Anthony to store the machines and monitors for another 60 days. I will get back to you to let you all know what comes of it. Thanks a lot for offering to help. On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:45 PM, ron wellman wrote: > Jim, > > *If we can work out the time I'd be glad to assist you. > > * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Jun 9 14:25:53 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 14:25:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Tenderloin Tech meetup Message-ID: Hi, I thought that maybe someone from this list might want to go to this tech meet-up to make connections outside the FOSS world, and try to expand our reach. I have to work this Saturday and part of this Sunday, so I can't go: #################################################### Join CTN Connect this Sunday as we explore City Centered: A Festival of Locative Media and Urban Community, which combines art, technology, and community media to create a unique experience of technology as a venue for community expression. Learn how a diverse group of artists, educators, civic organizations, and community members in the Mid-Market neighborhoods are using media and technology as a community platform, and meet with other community technology leaders to discuss how you can apply these concepts in your own communities. more information about the event is at www.CityCentered.org CTN Connect, the monthly event organized by Community Technology Network, will meet at the Tenderloin Tech Lab, and travel to the Gray Area Foundation for the Arts, the Archetype Boutique, the Luggage Store Gallery, and the Shih Yu-Lang Central YMCA to explore community art and technology projects, including Tendernoise/ Tendervoice- an interactive online project developed by the Tenderloin Tech Lab. Don't forget your walking shoes! This event is free, but let us know you are attending by registering here. Saturday, June 13 at 1:00 PM St. Anthony Foundation/Tenderloin Technology Lab 150 Golden Gate Avenue, 3rd Floor San Francisco, CA 94102 I hope to see you there! -- Christian Einfeldt, Producer, The Digital Tipping Point -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From larry.cafiero at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 14:37:40 2010 From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:37:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Mike Cassidy: Linux can help schools Message-ID: Hey, all -- Mike Cassidy of the Mercury News wrote a column today about Linux and how it can help schools. Here it is: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_15269820 Thought you might want to take a look. Larry Cafiero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 15:15:50 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 15:15:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Mike Cassidy: Linux can help schools In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Larry Cafiero wrote: > Hey, all -- > > Mike Cassidy of the Mercury News wrote a column today about Linux and how > it can help schools. > > Here it is: http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_15269820 > > Thought you might want to take a look. > > Larry Cafiero Thanks for that link, Larry! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjdampho at gmail.com Thu Jun 10 18:28:56 2010 From: rjdampho at gmail.com (Robert Damphousse) Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:28:56 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Tenderloin Tech meetup In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Christian, thanks for posting this. It would be great to see some FOSS folks here. There are going to be several people at this event who work with the city and are part of technology outreach programs in the Tenderloin. There is a free lecture series tomorrow and Saturday, that is probably the best time to meet folks. I'm one of the artists at this event, feel free to write with questions. Cheers, Robert On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi, > > I thought that maybe someone from this list might want to go to this tech > meet-up to make connections outside the FOSS world, and try to expand our > reach. I have to work this Saturday and part of this Sunday, so I can't go: > > #################################################### > > Join CTN Connect this Sunday as we explore City Centered: A Festival > of Locative Media and Urban Community, which combines art, technology, > and community media to create a unique experience of technology as a > venue for community expression. Learn how a diverse group of artists, > educators, civic organizations, and community members in the > Mid-Market neighborhoods are using media and technology as a community > platform, and meet with other community technology leaders to discuss > how you can apply these concepts in your own communities. more > information about the event is at www.CityCentered.org > > CTN Connect, the monthly event organized by Community Technology > Network, will meet at the Tenderloin Tech Lab, and travel to the Gray > Area Foundation for the Arts, the Archetype Boutique, the Luggage > Store Gallery, and the Shih Yu-Lang Central YMCA to explore community > art and technology projects, including Tendernoise/ Tendervoice- an > interactive online project developed by the Tenderloin Tech Lab. > > Don't forget your walking shoes! This event is free, but let us know > you are attending by registering here. > > Saturday, June 13 at 1:00 PM > > St. Anthony Foundation/Tenderloin Technology Lab > > 150 Golden Gate Avenue, 3rd Floor > San Francisco, CA 94102 > > I hope to see you there! > > -- > Christian Einfeldt, > Producer, The Digital Tipping Point > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Fri Jun 11 06:36:22 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 06:36:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli; & other BALUG news Message-ID: <20100611063622.55256zovwp76fro0@webmail.rawbw.com> BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli; & other BALUG news In this issue (details further below): 2010-06-15: The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli; & other BALUG news Installfests (2010-06-13 in Berkeley; etc.) 2010-05-18 Sam Bowne IPv6/sslstrip/Slowloris materials/"slides" "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion ------------------------------ Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-06-15 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Don't know what vi is? New to vi, or been using vi for years? Whatever familiarity and experience you do or don't have with vi, this presentation promises to include something useful for everyone. It will cover from basic introduction to vi, through many powerful and useful tips and tricks (e.g. handy and powerful editing operations, and leveraging vi to do much more than "just" edit files). Some of the differences and advantages and disadvantages of various vi implementations (historic vi, nvi, vim, etc.) will also be covered. While vi may be simply and modestly described as "a screen oriented text editor", vi is in fact the standard (and de facto standard) text editor for at least UNIX, Linux, and BSD environments, and it's also been ported to many other environments. But don't underestimate vi just because it's "standard". vi is a quite powerful and capable editor, and greatly outperforms the text editing capabilities of many other editors. Michael Paoli has been using vi for well over a quarter century, from humble beginnings with introductory documentation and quick reference card in hand, to oft repeated, "Wow, how did you do that?" remarks from co-workers watching some of his vi wranglings. He's also been doing Linux systems administration for over a dozen years, and used UNIX all the way back to his humble vi beginnings. So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, June 15th, 2010 2010-06-15 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ Installfests (2010-06-13 in Berkeley; etc.) Looks like the Berkeley Linux Users Group[1] is doing an installfest in Berkeley on 2010-06-13, not at their regular (Bobby G's) location (they may not be meeting there that day), but at ZaReason[2]'s location in Berkeley. Details should be findable somewhere on their website[1] and/or list[3]. Noisebridge[4] and the Ubuntu California Team[5] teamed up for a 2010-05-30 installfest[6][7] at the Noisebridge[4] location in San Francisco. The above are some examples of additional installfest activity in the (near) Bay Area region that have at least occasionally been happening, in addition to the quite regular installfests at Cabal[8]. 1. http://www.berkeleylug.com/ 2. http://zareason.com/ 3. http://groups.google.com/group/berkeleylug?hl=en 4. https://www.noisebridge.net/ 5. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam 6. https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Lucid_Lynx_Installfest 7. 2010-05-30 http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2010q2/007815.html 8. http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/ ------------------------------ 2010-05-18 Sam Bowne IPv6/sslstrip/Slowloris materials/"slides" At the 2010-05-18 BALUG meeting, Sam Bowne not only covered (and demonstrated) sslstrip and Slowloris, but also covered IPv6. Materials for/from the meeting, including now also IPv6, may be found on/via: http://samsclass.info/ipv6/evangelism.html http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-May/000152.html ------------------------------ "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion BALUG is working to assemble panel (and moderator) for "Working in the Business" (Linux, IT, etc.), panel discussion Should make for very interesting, lively, informative and useful discussion/presentation/"talk/debate". For more information, and also if you know someone you'd like as panelist or moderator (or are yourself interested), and/or if you have specific topics/questions you'd like to see covered by the panel, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT: http://www.balug.org/#panel At the present time we're ACTIVELY GATHERING INFORMATION ON POTENTIAL PANELISTS, MODERATORS, available dates, etc., to plan and coordinate this event. Please also do feel free to pass this information along to any contacts you feel appropriate that may be interested. ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Fri Jun 11 13:53:58 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:53:58 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] adverse trial court ruling against SCO Message-ID: Microsoft's proxy in its battle against Linux, SCO, receives an adverse ruling in the federal trial court: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/11/sco_novell/ For a quick and dirty summary of the end phase of the case, go to SCO's wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group#2010 Microsoft and the Linux community have no common ground. To the extent that Microsoft wins, we lose. To the extent that we win, Microsoft loses. That axiom might not always be true into the future, but it is true today. Today, Microsoft lost. Today, we won a small battle. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anth1y at gmail.com Sat Jun 12 16:51:36 2010 From: anth1y at gmail.com (Anthony Riley) Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:51:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Userquota and Groupquota Message-ID: What filesystems support userquotas groupquota? What other tools suport userquotas or groupquotas? -- Anthony Riley II (415)407.9687 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Sun Jun 13 11:07:45 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:07:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Userquota and Groupquota In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1276452465.1758.77.camel@jim-laptop> there's a tutorial at http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialQuotas.html briefly: * edit /etc/fstab and add either or both the usrquota and groupquota options to the option field of the partition/filesystem/mountpoint you want to affect. * use the touch command to create a file in the target filesystem with the name aquota.usr and/or aquota.group * bounce the box or the mount (restart or remount). * verify by reading /etc/mtab * make sure you have the quota, quotaon, quotacheck, and edquota commands (this might be a good first step rather than a last step). * make some test user accounts and see if they're governed as you expect. On Sat, 2010-06-12 at 16:51 -0700, Anthony Riley wrote: > What filesystems support userquotas groupquota? > What other tools suport userquotas or groupquotas? > > > -- > Anthony Riley II > (415)407.9687 > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From grantbow at gmail.com Sun Jun 13 23:39:11 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 23:39:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2010 - Saturday Sept 18th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's the first sighting I have seen about Software Freedom Day 2010 from the announce mail list. ?I'm sure some events will be sprouting up as the day gets closer. ?Comments? Cheers, Grant Bowman ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Frederic Muller Date: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 7:01 PM Subject: [SFD-announce] Sponsorship confirmed ?and testing ahead To: SFD announcements Dear SFD supporters, We've been graciously granted a VPS by Linode (www.linode.com) to host our platform, which has been scattered here and there so far. Until now Canonical was providing the support for our web platform, but technical details have been preventing us from upgrading a 3 years old wiki in dear need of a lifting! So I extend my thanks to both Canonical who have been supporting us since the early days and has just renewed their commitment to SFD in 2010, and to Linode with whom we have slow migrated stuff over time. Both companies have been extremely responsive to our needs and it's a real pleasure dealing with them. This also means we'll still be getting loads of free Ubuntu CDs shipped to each teams again this year, and that we'll be migrating our sites and various services over the coming days. We might definitely experience some outage (or maybe not). One thing which has been giving us headaches so far was our mailing lists and we're planning to phase them out in the short term, except from announcements. We're also looking for volunteers to help us add an Free Software alternative to Google Maps and provide access to OpenStreetMaps. If anyone has experience implementing an API similar to what we have so far (http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2009/map.shtml ), please do contact us. That will be all for now and we hope you're starting to get ready for this year SFD. Thank you all. Warm regards, Frederic Muller SFI President Software Freedom Day 2010 happening on Saturday September 18th, 2010 _______________________________________________ SFD-announce mailing list SFD-announce at sf-day.org http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-announce From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 10:30:29 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:30:29 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? Message-ID: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> So I've got a system that receives images from users We then ship those out to a 3rd party. This 3rd party requires that they be JPEGs (easy to convert to) of a certain size (easy to check) and in RGB colorspace (vs CMYK or Grey). I had a great bit of difficulty, and simply threw my hands up, when trying to "encourage" a greyscale image (that is, a picture that's only grey pixels) to become an RGB colorspace JPEG. Every automated tool I tried (libjpeg-progs, ImageMagick, possibly others; it's been a while) seemed to ignore my colorspace hint, and said to themselves "ah, but it's only grey pixels; let's just save it as Grey colorspace!) Does anyone here have any suggestions on a tool that can handle this for me? (Again, this will be running on a server as part of an automated process, so desktop apps are out; don't bother suggesting The GIMP :) ) I'd be willing to whip something up in C that used libjpeg and ran on our server to handle the 'force-to-RGB-colorspace' task. (The other idea I had was to introduce an off-grey pixel into the source image, to "convince" the tools we're using now that the image really does deserve RGB colorspace :) ) Thanks in advance, -bill! From jim at well.com Mon Jun 14 10:58:33 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 10:58:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2010 - Saturday Sept 18th In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1276538313.1758.89.camel@jim-laptop> last couple or three years sameer has led a charge based around the SF State University community (and, i think, OLPC-SF). he's a likely early contact to find out how to help. i guess "we" could update the sf-lug web site with info about various SFD initiatives. anybody know of specific sf bay area groups that will have SFD activities? getting the word out early is better than at the last minute. On Sun, 2010-06-13 at 23:39 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote: > Here's the first sighting I have seen about Software Freedom Day 2010 > from the announce mail list. I'm sure some events will be sprouting > up as the day gets closer. Comments? > > Cheers, > > Grant Bowman > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Frederic Muller > Date: Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 7:01 PM > Subject: [SFD-announce] Sponsorship confirmed and testing ahead > To: SFD announcements > > > Dear SFD supporters, > > We've been graciously granted a VPS by Linode (www.linode.com) to host > our platform, which has been scattered here and there so far. Until now > Canonical was providing the support for our web platform, but technical > details have been preventing us from upgrading a 3 years old wiki in > dear need of a lifting! > > So I extend my thanks to both Canonical who have been supporting us > since the early days and has just renewed their commitment to SFD in > 2010, and to Linode with whom we have slow migrated stuff over time. > Both companies have been extremely responsive to our needs and it's a > real pleasure dealing with them. > > This also means we'll still be getting loads of free Ubuntu CDs shipped > to each teams again this year, and that we'll be migrating our sites and > various services over the coming days. We might definitely experience > some outage (or maybe not). One thing which has been giving us headaches > so far was our mailing lists and we're planning to phase them out in the > short term, except from announcements. > > We're also looking for volunteers to help us add an Free Software > alternative to Google Maps and provide access to OpenStreetMaps. If > anyone has experience implementing an API similar to what we have so far > (http://cgi.softwarefreedomday.org/2009/map.shtml ), please do contact us. > > That will be all for now and we hope you're starting to get ready for > this year SFD. > > Thank you all. > > Warm regards, > > Frederic Muller > SFI President > Software Freedom Day 2010 happening on Saturday September 18th, 2010 > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-announce mailing list > SFD-announce at sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-announce > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From jim at well.com Mon Jun 14 11:02:36 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:02:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> Message-ID: <1276538556.1758.93.camel@jim-laptop> my initial reaction was "what?" i.e. how to infer hue from greys. after some more coffee it occurs that maybe you want an RGB representation of greys, yes? i.e. Ox777 would be mid-grey, 0xFFF white, 0x000 black, etc., yes? On Mon, 2010-06-14 at 10:30 -0700, Bill Kendrick wrote: > So I've got a system that receives images from users > We then ship those out to a 3rd party. This 3rd party > requires that they be JPEGs (easy to convert to) of a > certain size (easy to check) and in RGB colorspace > (vs CMYK or Grey). > > I had a great bit of difficulty, and simply threw my hands up, > when trying to "encourage" a greyscale image (that is, a picture > that's only grey pixels) to become an RGB colorspace JPEG. > > Every automated tool I tried (libjpeg-progs, ImageMagick, > possibly others; it's been a while) seemed to ignore my colorspace > hint, and said to themselves "ah, but it's only grey pixels; > let's just save it as Grey colorspace!) > > Does anyone here have any suggestions on a tool that can handle > this for me? (Again, this will be running on a server as part > of an automated process, so desktop apps are out; don't bother > suggesting The GIMP :) ) > > I'd be willing to whip something up in C that used libjpeg > and ran on our server to handle the 'force-to-RGB-colorspace' > task. (The other idea I had was to introduce an off-grey pixel > into the source image, to "convince" the tools we're using now > that the image really does deserve RGB colorspace :) ) > > Thanks in advance, > > -bill! > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From mhigashi at gmail.com Mon Jun 14 12:14:16 2010 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 12:14:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > > > Every automated tool I tried (libjpeg-progs, ImageMagick, > possibly others; it's been a while) seemed to ignore my colorspace > hint, and said to themselves "ah, but it's only grey pixels; > let's just save it as Grey colorspace!) > > Does anyone here have any suggestions on a tool that can handle > this for me? ?(Again, this will be running on a server as part > of an automated process, so desktop apps are out; don't bother > suggesting The GIMP :) ) Did you try using the 'convert' program from ImageMagick with both the: -colorspace rgb and the: -colors (with # of colors) switches? From what I can tell, using -colorspace requires also using -colors for it to work. Mike From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Mon Jun 14 13:17:21 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:17:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Message-ID: <20100614131721.88154646qedus5q8@webmail.rawbw.com> REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Also at tomorrow's meeting, CDs: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) Desktop CD PC (Intel x86) i386 Thanks to Grant Bowman and the Ubuntu California Team for getting CDs to us. Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). For our 2010-06-15 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli Don't know what vi is? New to vi, or been using vi for years? Whatever familiarity and experience you do or don't have with vi, this presentation promises to include something useful for everyone. It will cover from basic introduction to vi, through many powerful and useful tips and tricks (e.g. handy and powerful editing operations, and leveraging vi to do much more than "just" edit files). Some of the differences and advantages and disadvantages of various vi implementations (historic vi, nvi, vim, etc.) will also be covered. While vi may be simply and modestly described as "a screen oriented text editor", vi is in fact the standard (and de facto standard) text editor for at least UNIX, Linux, and BSD environments, and it's also been ported to many other environments. But don't underestimate vi just because it's "standard". vi is a quite powerful and capable editor, and greatly outperforms the text editing capabilities of many other editors. Michael Paoli has been using vi for well over a quarter century, from humble beginnings with introductory documentation and quick reference card in hand, to oft repeated, "Wow, how did you do that?" remarks from co-workers watching some of his vi wranglings. He's also been doing Linux systems administration for over a dozen years, and used UNIX all the way back to his humble vi beginnings. So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: rsvp at balug.org **Why RSVP??** Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. Meeting Details... 6:30pm Tuesday, June 15th, 2010 2010-06-15 Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ 731 Grant Ave. San Francisco, CA 94108 Easy PARKING: Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: http://www.sfpsg.com/ Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). ------------------------------ Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org ------------------------------ http://www.balug.org/ From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 13:18:06 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:18:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: <1276538556.1758.93.camel@jim-laptop> References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> <1276538556.1758.93.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20100614201806.GD7742@sonic.net> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:02:36AM -0700, jim wrote: > > > my initial reaction was "what?" i.e. how to > infer hue from greys. > after some more coffee it occurs that maybe > you want an RGB representation of greys, yes? > i.e. Ox777 would be mid-grey, 0xFFF white, > 0x000 black, etc., yes? Precisely. The 3rd party we're dealing with want the images to be in an RGB colorspace, even if R=G=B for every pixel. Just a (to me, arbitrary) requirement (since the 3rd party is a black box). -bill! From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 13:22:42 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:22:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20100614202242.GE7742@sonic.net> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:14:16PM -0700, Mike Higashi wrote: > Did you try using the 'convert' program from ImageMagick > with both the: > > -colorspace rgb > I am using "convert" with "-colorspace rgb", but it tries to be 'helpful' and disregards my request IF the picture is greyscale. (If the original image was CMYK colorspace and contained some color pixels, for example, it converts it to RGB as expected.) > and the: > > -colors (with # of colors) > > switches? From what I can tell, using -colorspace requires > also using -colors for it to work. I figured this was for quantization (e.g., take a 24bit RGB image, and pick the 16 most appropriate colors to create a 4big indexed image (GIF or PNG for example)). "-colorspace" certainly works WITHOUT the "-colors" option (since the tool I wrote successfully does JPEG/CMYK => JPEG/RGB conversion). What value(s) do you image I'd need to use, when converting an 8bit greyscale image to a 24bit RGB image (which just happens to have all-grey pixels)? "man convert" doesn't say much :^( -colors value preferred number of colors in the image Thx! -- -bill! Sent from my computer From alchaiken at gmail.com Mon Jun 14 13:25:35 2010 From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:25:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB Message-ID: > From: Bill Kendrick writes: > Does anyone here have any suggestions on a tool that can handle > this for me? Good news: in about 2 minutes, I can make you a bash script that calls Gnu Octave and does what you want. Bad news: you'd have to install Octave and it's image package, which is harder than you'd think. Let me know if you're interested. -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ The only real deadline in life is the one where you actually die. -- Eliot D. From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jun 14 13:30:26 2010 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 13:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443995.29484.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Why don't you just open the image up in the GIMP and de-saturate it? ________________________________ From: Alison Chaiken To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Sent: Mon, June 14, 2010 1:25:35 PM Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB > From: Bill Kendrick writes: > Does anyone here have any suggestions on a tool that can handle > this for me? Good news: in about 2 minutes, I can make you a bash script that calls Gnu Octave and does what you want. Bad news: you'd have to install Octave and it's image package, which is harder than you'd think. Let me know if you're interested. -- Alison Chaiken (650) 279-5600 (cell) http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/ The only real deadline in life is the one where you actually die. -- Eliot D. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhigashi at gmail.com Mon Jun 14 14:08:19 2010 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: <20100614202242.GE7742@sonic.net> References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> <20100614202242.GE7742@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > > "-colorspace" certainly works WITHOUT the "-colors" option > (since the tool I wrote successfully does JPEG/CMYK => JPEG/RGB > conversion). > > What value(s) do you image I'd need to use, when converting > an 8bit greyscale image to a 24bit RGB image (which just happens > to have all-grey pixels)? ?"man convert" doesn't say much :^( I'm sorry, I don't know. I was just going by what "man ImageMagick" said: -colorspace the type of colorspace Choices are: GRAY, OHTA, RGB, Transparent, XYZ, YCbCr, YIQ, YPbPr, YUV, or CMYK. [some details snipped] The -colors or -monochrome option is required for this option to take effect. Mike From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jun 14 15:12:47 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 15:12:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: LinuxCon 2010 User Group Partnership Message-ID: <20100614221247.GH28202@linuxmafia.com> If considering attending LinuxCon this Fall in Boston, Linux Foundation is offering a LUG discount. ----- Forwarded message from Nichola Mente ----- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 15:08:04 -0700 From: Nichola Mente To: Rick Moen Subject: Re: LinuxCon 2010 User Group Partnership Hi Rick, This is great and again thank you, please send on my behalf to the groups below: Hello Silicon Valley Linux User Group Members: LinuxCon 2010 will be held in Boston this Aug 10-12, and we would like to offer each of you a discount on registration fees as local community members. Information, schedule and registration can be found on our website: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon. When registering, please use this code to receive a 20% discount: LCB_BAYUG10 Questions? Please email: nichola at linuxfoundation.org Thank You, Nichola On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 2:18 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Nichola Mente (nichola at linuxfoundation.org): > >> Hi Rick, >> >> Please feel free to share this memo with your group, and if you want >> other codes spefic to some of the other groups you are in please let >> me know. >> I appreciate your time. Have a great week! > > > You might consider: > Silicon Valley Linux User Group, http://www.svlug.org/ > Bay Area Linux User Group, http://www.balug.org/ > San Francisco Linux User Group, http://www.sf-lug.org/ > Peninsula Linux User Group, http://www.penlug.org/ > > Those are all active LUGs with e-mail mailing lists, and I help > operate all but the last of them. ?I would be glad to e-mail those > groups' mailing lists on your behalf. > > -- Nichola Mente Event & Administrative Assistant The Linux Foundation 1796 18th Street, Suite C San Francisco, CA 94107 T: 650.224.4902 F: 408.739-4592 E: nichola at linuxfoundation.org, nichola at linux.com www.linuxfoundation.org ----- End forwarded message ----- From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 16:36:14 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:36:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Software Freedom Day 2010 - Saturday Sept 18th In-Reply-To: <1276538313.1758.89.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1276538313.1758.89.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20100614233614.GC678@sonic.net> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 10:58:33AM -0700, jim wrote: > > last couple or three years sameer has led > a charge based around the SF State University > community (and, i think, OLPC-SF). he's a > likely early contact to find out how to help. > i guess "we" could update the sf-lug web > site with info about various SFD initiatives. > anybody know of specific sf bay area groups > that will have SFD activities? > getting the word out early is better than > at the last minute. > LUGOD might. We often set up a booth at the Farmers Market here in Davis. Not spectacular, but it's something. ;) Looks like we missed last year, but have done it in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008: http://lugod.org/sfd/ -bill! From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 17:10:23 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:10:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> <20100614202242.GE7742@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20100615001023.GB11558@sonic.net> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 02:08:19PM -0700, Mike Higashi wrote: > I'm sorry, I don't know. Heh, no problem. :) > I was just going by what "man ImageMagick" said: > > -colorspace > the type of colorspace > > Choices are: GRAY, OHTA, RGB, Transparent, XYZ, YCbCr, YIQ, > YPbPr, YUV, or CMYK. > > [some details snipped] > > The -colors or -monochrome option is required for this option to > take effect. Interesting. My "man ImageMagick" doesn't discuss the options for each command. And "man convert" just shows one-liners for each option (as I showed before). My ImageMagick man page is dated: Date: 2005/03/01 01:00:00 I'm on Kubuntu 9.04. And you? In any case, it looks like "-type TrueColor" might be the magic (so to speak) that I was missing. Still need to confirm it. Thx! -bill! From nbs at sonic.net Mon Jun 14 17:11:45 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:11:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB In-Reply-To: <443995.29484.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <443995.29484.qm@web82804.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20100615001145.GC11558@sonic.net> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 01:30:26PM -0700, vincent polite wrote: > Why don't you just open the image up in the GIMP and de-saturate it? > Like I said, this is part of an automated process running on a server. There's no "open up the file and do stuff to it". :) Why the images need to be in a particular colorspace prior to our shipping them is a mystery to me, but I am burdened with doing it. ;) -bill! From mhigashi at gmail.com Mon Jun 14 17:40:47 2010 From: mhigashi at gmail.com (Mike Higashi) Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:40:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Forcing a greyscape JPEG into RGB colorspace? In-Reply-To: <20100615001023.GB11558@sonic.net> References: <20100614173029.GD27200@sonic.net> <20100614202242.GE7742@sonic.net> <20100615001023.GB11558@sonic.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > > Interesting. ?My "man ImageMagick" doesn't discuss the options for > each command. ?And "man convert" just shows one-liners for each option > (as I showed before). > > My ImageMagick man page is dated: ?Date: 2005/03/01 01:00:00 > I'm on Kubuntu 9.04. ?And you? Well, I was ssh'ed into a remote system running RedHat at the time I looked it up. But you can also find it here: http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl1_ImageMagick.htm Mike From jim at well.com Tue Jun 15 00:51:07 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:51:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli In-Reply-To: <20100614131721.88154646qedus5q8@webmail.rawbw.com> References: <20100614131721.88154646qedus5q8@webmail.rawbw.com> Message-ID: <1276588267.1758.153.camel@jim-laptop> If any SF-LUGers are going to Michael's vi talk this evening at the Four Seas restaurant in SF Chinatown, let me know, maybe we can hook up. On Mon, 2010-06-14 at 13:17 -0700, Michael Paoli wrote: > REMINDER: TOMORROW: BALUG Tu 2010-06-15 The vi editor, introduction > through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli > > Also at tomorrow's meeting, CDs: > Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Lucid Lynx) Desktop CD PC (Intel x86) i386 > Thanks to Grant Bowman and the Ubuntu California Team for getting CDs to us. > > Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG) > Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2010-06-15 > The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli > > Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below). > > For our 2010-06-15 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present: > > The vi editor, introduction through advanced usage, presented by Michael Paoli > > Don't know what vi is? New to vi, or been using vi for years? Whatever > familiarity and experience you do or don't have with vi, this > presentation promises to include something useful for everyone. It will > cover from basic introduction to vi, through many powerful and useful > tips and tricks (e.g. handy and powerful editing operations, and > leveraging vi to do much more than "just" edit files). Some of the > differences and advantages and disadvantages of various vi > implementations (historic vi, nvi, vim, etc.) will also be covered. > > While vi may be simply and modestly described as "a screen oriented > text editor", vi is in fact the standard (and de facto standard) text > editor for at least UNIX, Linux, and BSD environments, and it's also > been ported to many other environments. But don't underestimate vi just > because it's "standard". vi is a quite powerful and capable editor, and > greatly outperforms the text editing capabilities of many other editors. > > Michael Paoli has been using vi for well over a quarter century, from > humble beginnings with introductory documentation and quick reference > card in hand, to oft repeated, "Wow, how did you do that?" remarks from > co-workers watching some of his vi wranglings. He's also been doing > Linux systems administration for over a dozen years, and used UNIX all > the way back to his humble vi beginnings. > > So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP to: > > rsvp at balug.org > > **Why RSVP??** > > Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the > Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be > able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room. > > Meeting Details... > > 6:30pm > Tuesday, June 15th, 2010 2010-06-15 > > Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/ > 731 Grant Ave. > San Francisco, CA 94108 > Easy PARKING: > Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny: > http://www.sfpsg.com/ > > Cost: The meetings are always free, but for dinner, for your gift of $13 > cash, we give you a gift of dinner ticket to join us for a yummy > family-style Chinese dinner - tax and tip included (your gift also > helps in our patronizing the restaurant venue and helping to > defray BALUG costs such treating our speakers to dinner). > > ------------------------------ > > Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we > should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or > things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org > > ------------------------------ > > http://www.balug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From jim at well.com Tue Jun 15 10:08:49 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:08:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] how to configure an HP 4000 printer Message-ID: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> i've tried to make sense of search engine results but i can't figure out what to do to configure an HP 4000 printer to work on a particular IP address. what is the interface: the printer menu itself? if so, which menu choice lets one set an IP address for the printer? (this is for the Hayes Valley Learning Center, which some of us helped set up to use Ubuntu computers in their lab.) hopefully, jim From bliss at sfo.com Tue Jun 15 10:21:13 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:21:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] how to configure an HP 4000 printer In-Reply-To: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <4C17B689.1080209@sfo.com> On 06/15/2010 10:08 AM, jim wrote: > HP 4000 > i've tried to make sense of search engine > results but i can't figure out what to do > to configure an HP 4000 printer to work > on a particular IP address. what is the > interface: the printer menu itself? if so, > which menu choice lets one set an IP > address for the printer? > (this is for the Hayes Valley Learning > Center, which some of us helped set up to > use Ubuntu computers in their lab.) > There seem to be lots of manuals and information at: searched on HHP 4000 user manuals. later Bobbie Sellers From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jun 15 10:24:51 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:24:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] how to configure an HP 4000 printer In-Reply-To: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20100615172451.GH19199@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com): > i've tried to make sense of search engine > results but i can't figure out what to do > to configure an HP 4000 printer to work > on a particular IP address. I can look it up for you. Might I just ask for clarification? YOu're talking about an HP LaserJet 4000, right? I ask because there are multiple models from different product lines that might be referred to as 'HP 4000', notably HP Designjet 4000. In general, when seeking help with printers, laptops, etc., you'll get best results if you cite (and search for) the full product name. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jun 15 10:48:22 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2010 10:48:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] how to configure an HP 4000 printer In-Reply-To: <20100615172451.GH19199@linuxmafia.com> References: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> <20100615172451.GH19199@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100615174822.GJ19199@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > I can look it up for you. Might I just ask for clarification? YOu're > talking about an HP LaserJet 4000, right? Also, are you quite sure you're not talking about an HP LaserJet 4000N? The 'n' suffix is what HP uses to indicate that the model has a network port, i.e., a JetDirect card. The HP LaserJet 4000 has _no_ network interface, whereas the HP LaserJet 4000N bundles an HP JetDirect 600N print server card with LocalTalk, ethernet 10Base-T/twisted-pair (RJ-45), and 10Base-2/thinnet (BNC) connectors. Of course, someone could have added an aftermarket JetDirect card to an HP LaserJet 4000, but that is rare. And, anyway, you would be able to clarify, having seen the printer and noticed its network interface, right? Anyway, with one of those, if you want to cold-reset the network card to its factory settings (wiping the card's NVRAM), hold down the green button and turn the printer on. Let go of the green button after at least 5 seconds. The JetDirect card should now revert to factory-default behaviour, in which it gets a DHCP lease. On most HP printers, you can configure TCP/IP settings from a front-panel switch. Details here: http://www.cites.illinois.edu/wsg/resources/network_printing/printing.html#1 HP Laserjet 4000 N Press the Menu button until you see Information Menu. Press the Item button until you see Print Configuration Press Select. Result: The second page of the printout shows the configuration details of the JetDirect network card in the printer. Taken from http://kb.mit.edu/confluence/display/ist/Check+the+network+settings+for+various+HP+printers New-ish HP printers lack the front-panel configurability, but have a built-in Web server you talk to for configuration purposes. From jim at well.com Wed Jun 16 08:41:46 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 08:41:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] how to configure an HP 4000 printer In-Reply-To: <20100615174822.GJ19199@linuxmafia.com> References: <1276621729.1758.158.camel@jim-laptop> <20100615172451.GH19199@linuxmafia.com> <20100615174822.GJ19199@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <1276702906.1581.14.camel@jim-laptop> Many thanks. the page you referenced ( http://www.cites.illinois.edu/wsg/resources/network_printing/printing.html#1 ) is just what i was hoping for. the printer is HP Laserjet 4000 TN (i was working from memory at home when i sent my original plea). seems the printer thinks its IP address is 192.168.0.15 (per dhcp). At least one computer on the LAN shows that IP address for the printer, so it seems to me that there's a connection problem somewhere in between. more thanks for the link. On Tue, 2010-06-15 at 10:48 -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > I wrote: > > > I can look it up for you. Might I just ask for clarification? YOu're > > talking about an HP LaserJet 4000, right? > > Also, are you quite sure you're not talking about an HP LaserJet 4000N? > The 'n' suffix is what HP uses to indicate that the model has a network > port, i.e., a JetDirect card. The HP LaserJet 4000 has _no_ network > interface, whereas the HP LaserJet 4000N bundles an HP JetDirect 600N > print server card with LocalTalk, ethernet 10Base-T/twisted-pair (RJ-45), > and 10Base-2/thinnet (BNC) connectors. > > Of course, someone could have added an aftermarket JetDirect card to an > HP LaserJet 4000, but that is rare. And, anyway, you would be able to > clarify, having seen the printer and noticed its network interface, > right? > > Anyway, with one of those, if you want to cold-reset the network card to > its factory settings (wiping the card's NVRAM), hold down the green > button and turn the printer on. Let go of the green button after at > least 5 seconds. The JetDirect card should now revert to > factory-default behaviour, in which it gets a DHCP lease. > > On most HP printers, you can configure TCP/IP settings from a > front-panel switch. Details here: > http://www.cites.illinois.edu/wsg/resources/network_printing/printing.html#1 > > HP Laserjet 4000 N > > Press the Menu button until you see Information Menu. > Press the Item button until you see Print Configuration > Press Select. > Result: The second page of the printout shows the configuration details > of the JetDirect network card in the printer. > > Taken from > http://kb.mit.edu/confluence/display/ist/Check+the+network+settings+for+various+HP+printers > > > New-ish HP printers lack the front-panel configurability, but have a > built-in Web server you talk to for configuration purposes. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From bill at wards.net Wed Jun 16 12:00:06 2010 From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 12:00:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 06/23/2010 Message-ID: PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS: +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Date: |Wednesday, June 23, 2009 | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| |Time: |6:00 - 8:00 PM | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| | |Bayshore Technology Park | |Location:|1300 Island Drive | | |Redwood City, CA 94065 | | |Suite 106 - Training Room | |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------| | |Facebook: | |RSVP: |http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=124687507562770 | | |or mail rsvp at penlug.org | +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Note we are now meeting on Wednesdays! Since March 2010, we moved to the fourth Wednesday of each month (except in November and December, when we will meet on the second Wednesday to avoid holiday conflicts). The meeting is hosted by NewlineNoosh. There is no sponsor for food/drinks, so please bring a potluck item to share. Agenda: * 6:00 PM Potluck snacks * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes * 6:30 PM Presentation begins * 8:00 PM Meeting ends Essential IPv6 for the Linux Systems Administrator Owen will discuss the basics of IPv6, the current state of IPv4, the rapid reduction in IPv4 address space and what it means to you. He will also cover IPv6 Addressing methods including SLAAC, DHCP, Static and Privacy issues. Did you know all Windows 7, Vista, and 2008 Servers are running v6 on your network and tunneling with Teredo? Also covered will be Linux addressing specifics and IPv6 configuration without a native v6 backbone available to you. For more information you can visit HE IPv6 Tunnel Broker or Hurricane Electric. See you there! Owen DeLong, Hurricane Electric Owen DeLong is an IPv6 Evangelist for Hurricane Electric, the leading IPv6 ready Internet Service Provider. He*s also an elected member of the ARIN Advisory Council and a senior backbone engineer with more than 25 years of industry experience. In his spare time, he*s a commercial pilot and teaches SCUBA diving and CPR/First Aid courses. Owen can be reached at owen at delong dot com. RSVP Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you are planning to attend. GETTING THERE For information on getting to the meeting, please see: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting. MORE INFORMATION See www.penlug.org for more information. This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists: members at penlug.org announce at penlug.org sf-lug at linuxmafia.com balug-talk at lists.balug.org svlug at lists.svlug.org svevents at yahoogroups.com vox at lists.lugod.org Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes. From bliss at sfo.com Thu Jun 17 15:22:25 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 15:22:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets Monday Message-ID: <4C1AA021.1090601@sfo.com> That is Monday 21 June at the Cafe Enchante, 26th and Geary from 6 PM to 8 PM nominally. Hope you can make it to the San Francisco Linux Users Group then. later Bobbie Sellers From jim at well.com Thu Jun 17 21:41:10 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 21:41:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops Message-ID: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> lately i've become worried about my two-to-three year old zareason laptop and sent email to zareason asking if they could help me pick something from their current line as a replacement. earl malmrose replied with some very helpful information: "Thanks for checking in with us. Your laptop should have a good amount of life left in it. Something simple like a dead keyboard can easily (and affordably) be replaced. The primary weak spot on almost all laptops is the screen hinge. Keep an eye on that. "Another weak spot long-term is the hard drive. Fortunately most failures are gradual. If you have an up-to-date Ubuntu, the Disk Utility is really good at monitoring the hard drive health. When the hard drive is near failure, it will notify you. Don't ignore the warnings if they pop up. "And finally, backup backup backup. I swear by DropBox. Put all your important files in the DropBox folder, then whenever you connect to the Internet, it syncs/backups everything in the DropBox folder. No manual effort. Automatic. That's my kind of system. 2 to 3 GB of storage is free, or you can upgrade to 50 GB of storage for $10/mo. It even stores old versions/deleted files/etc. that can easily be retrieved like a month later. "SD cards and flash drives have virtually no wear levelling features. Don't depend on them lasting with frequent writes. Go ahead and use them for weekly or monthly backups. "--Earl Malmrose www.zareason.com "We also have some forums started at zareason.com/forums You can post questions there." JS: I'm using ubuntu 10.04; I didn't bother looking at the System > Administration > Disk Utility until after reading earl's email. Wow! I like it! From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 00:50:08 2010 From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 00:50:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops In-Reply-To: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: That's pretty great that they didn't try and sell you a new laptop, as (stereotype incoming) most vendors would. The general trend for HP/Dell/etc laptops is that they fail 6 months to a year after the standard 3 year warranty runs out. I suspect this is not completely a coincidence. It reminds me of the old Ford/Chevy trend of cars failing after 100k miles. Toyota forced them away from this business model. I decided long ago that, if I ever need a laptop, I will purchase from them. One challenge they face is that (stereotype incoming) Linux users tend to be more frugal than others. It's wise on their part that they embrace this, and focus on brand loyalty instead. Chris On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 9:41 PM, jim wrote: > > > ? lately i've become worried about my two-to-three year old > zareason laptop and sent email to zareason asking if they > could help me pick something from their current line as a > replacement. earl malmrose replied with some very helpful > information: > > "Thanks for checking in with us. Your laptop should have a good amount > of life left in it. Something simple like a dead keyboard can easily > (and affordably) be replaced. The primary weak spot on almost all > laptops is the screen hinge. Keep an eye on that. > > "Another weak spot long-term is the hard drive. Fortunately most > failures are gradual. If you have an up-to-date Ubuntu, the Disk > Utility is really good at monitoring the hard drive health. When the > hard drive is near failure, it will notify you. Don't ignore the > warnings if they pop up. > > "And finally, backup backup backup. I swear by DropBox. Put all your > important files in the DropBox folder, then whenever you connect to > the Internet, it syncs/backups everything in the DropBox folder. No > manual effort. Automatic. That's my kind of system. 2 to 3 GB of > storage is free, or you can upgrade to 50 GB of storage for $10/mo. It > even stores old versions/deleted files/etc. that can easily be > retrieved like a month later. > > "SD cards and flash drives have virtually no wear levelling features. > Don't depend on them lasting with frequent writes. Go ahead and use > them for weekly or monthly backups. > > "--Earl Malmrose ?www.zareason.com > > "We also have some forums started at ?zareason.com/forums > You can post questions there." > > JS: I'm using ubuntu 10.04; I didn't bother looking at > the System > Administration > Disk Utility until after > reading earl's email. Wow! I like it! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 13:32:13 2010 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 13:32:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops In-Reply-To: References: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <4C1BD7CD.1040901@gmail.com> i would always try to buy from zareason because they are Good People doing Good Work. disclosure: i like them i suspect also that linux users tend to take better care of their laptops, in terms of software, hardware, and mechanical upkeep. e.g. there was an excellent tip (i think on this list) not to carry laptops by one corner, as this caused mechanical stress for which the unit was not designed. after reading this, i mended my ways. nothing particularly linux-related, but possibly part of our makeup. another tip pointed out that heat is the big battery killer, and that the screen is a big heat generator. thus, avoiding closing the lid while the screen is on is a good idea. by the way, i read the original post with interest. that's something that should be posted to (e.g.) the make blog, IMHO. i'm using a t60 with some 4-5 years on it, and while i wouldn't say no to something lighter and faster, i am immensely happy with this machine. i welcome articles that help us get the most out of what we have (not just tech) and less about trying to sell the latest whatever. (my cellphone is about 7 years old) m On 06/18/2010 12:50 AM, Chris Mason wrote: > That's pretty great that they didn't try and sell you a new laptop, as > (stereotype incoming) most vendors would. > > The general trend for HP/Dell/etc laptops is that they fail 6 months > to a year after the standard 3 year warranty runs out. I suspect this > is not completely a coincidence. It reminds me of the old Ford/Chevy > trend of cars failing after 100k miles. Toyota forced them away from > this business model. > > I decided long ago that, if I ever need a laptop, I will purchase from them. > > One challenge they face is that (stereotype incoming) Linux users tend > to be more frugal than others. It's wise on their part that they > embrace this, and focus on brand loyalty instead. > > > Chris > > On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 9:41 PM, jim wrote: >> >> >> lately i've become worried about my two-to-three year old >> zareason laptop and sent email to zareason asking if they >> could help me pick something from their current line as a >> replacement. earl malmrose replied with some very helpful >> information: >> >> "Thanks for checking in with us. Your laptop should have a good amount >> of life left in it. Something simple like a dead keyboard can easily >> (and affordably) be replaced. The primary weak spot on almost all >> laptops is the screen hinge. Keep an eye on that. >> >> "Another weak spot long-term is the hard drive. Fortunately most >> failures are gradual. If you have an up-to-date Ubuntu, the Disk >> Utility is really good at monitoring the hard drive health. When the >> hard drive is near failure, it will notify you. Don't ignore the >> warnings if they pop up. >> >> "And finally, backup backup backup. I swear by DropBox. Put all your >> important files in the DropBox folder, then whenever you connect to >> the Internet, it syncs/backups everything in the DropBox folder. No >> manual effort. Automatic. That's my kind of system. 2 to 3 GB of >> storage is free, or you can upgrade to 50 GB of storage for $10/mo. It >> even stores old versions/deleted files/etc. that can easily be >> retrieved like a month later. >> >> "SD cards and flash drives have virtually no wear levelling features. >> Don't depend on them lasting with frequent writes. Go ahead and use >> them for weekly or monthly backups. >> >> "--Earl Malmrose www.zareason.com >> >> "We also have some forums started at zareason.com/forums >> You can post questions there." >> >> JS: I'm using ubuntu 10.04; I didn't bother looking at >> the System> Administration> Disk Utility until after >> reading earl's email. Wow! I like it! >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -- Sent from my ASR-33 From grantbow at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 14:51:34 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 14:51:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [opensuse-marketing] Launch Parties 11.3 In-Reply-To: <1276758539.8368.145.camel@bonsai.teegee.firma> References: <1276758539.8368.145.camel@bonsai.teegee.firma> Message-ID: Anyone interested in organizing a launch party? Grant Bowman ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: S.Kemter Date: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:08 AM Subject: [opensuse-marketing] Launch Parties 11.3 To: Hello, Time to write this mail again and remember u all that openSUSE 11.3 would be released in 30 days. So preparing Launch Parties in ur regions. Maybe the following things are helpful for that. If u need help or have a special thing in mind dont eschew to write me a mail and ask for help. I will do what I can. What is a Launch Party. Actually thats a good question. Launch Party means only a activity arround the fresh released openSUSE version. What activity its up to the organizator. There are some forms of activity * only a informal meeting in a club, pub or whatever. Target is to get ppl with the same interest (in this case openSUSE or Linux/FLOSS) together. Its the easiest way to make an activity arround a openSUSE release. For this is only a place needed. For the launch of 11.2 strainu from Romania did such a party (http://www.suseromania.ro/proiecte-ale-comunitatii/lansare-opensuse-11-2/) He invited some friends from the floss scene in a trattoria, thats actually a good idea. Because all "geeks" like pizza :D HeliosReds in Japan did the same form of Launch Partie. He invited some openSUSE friends to a dining bar and waited with his guests for the release announcement. This form of activity is really a good first step to build a local community with ppl they are interested in openSUSE. U can discuss with the guests some new features from openSUSE and have some fun. This time it looks the Ambassadors in Vienna do such a party and wait together with others for the Launch Announcement. * next form is do a demonstration of the new openSUSE. For this u need a room the size of the room depends of the form of presentation. For a greater demonstration u need maybe a beamer and a screen. There is the possibility to make this demonstration for the local Linux User Group if there one exists. * that form can be extended with more as a demonstration of openSUSE. U can make a event with a row of talks and presentations about openSUSE. There are possible topics like the openSUSE community, SUSE Studio, openFATE, the openSUSE Buildservice (remember the OBS 2.0 is released a few weeks before 11.3) and such things. * next form is to give a workshop for working with free software like OpenOffice, Blender, Gimp or Inkscape or other programs that a normally user needs. Thats the hardest form becaus u need not only a room, u have to organize that all guests can work with the program. There is the possibility that all working with her own computer but for this u have to make sure all have the right version. An other possibility u use a room of a computer school or such thing for it. Last release Andi Sugandi from Indonesia did this form of event. On his launch event was a workshop for OpenOffice and for Blender. * another possibility is to make a Installfest, that means to help people to install the newest openSUSE. For this u need a room with power supply and a internet connection is good for it because u can install security fixes and programs there are not in the repositorys of openSUSE but needed from the persons too. But one thing u should remind u should be really a expert for doing that U can all the forms mix together for an bigger event, that depends of the ressources that u have. One of the important things is to become a good start with an event. The next event would be much easier. There are a few points for it: * less is more then more ;) Dont over estimate. It is better to begin with a small event as with a big one, there is on the end not good * cooperate with other communitys (cyberorg from India cooperate with ubuntu and strainu in Romania cooperated with Mozilla and Fedora) * make marketing for the event is the most important thing - u become no visitors without it. * and dont forget to make photos and write an report after the event, its marketing for the next one! * remember u need some openSUSE stuff. AJ and michl needs some time for organize it and the postal services need particulary 5-6 weeks! So talking early enough about it! For 11.3 I hope that all openSUSE Ambassadors participate and organizing a launch event. For 11.1 we had 16 events and for 11.2 27 events. Thats much better but not good enough. My target for 11.3 are 50 events or more worldwide. On such places like Taipeh we have 4 Ambassadors there should be definitly a Launch Party, Barcelona, Vienna, Jakarta and Singapore too. The early bird catch the worm! So let us begin now with the plannings for the launch events. When we working together we can make more marketing centralized as the page in the wiki. http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_11.3_Launch_Party_Locations I have some ideas for it. Maybe we can do a twitter wall I organized for the openSUSE Conference with tweets and pictures from the events to show live whats going on. So now is up to u, take the first step and begin to plan ur Launch Party. If u need help then talk to me. If u have ideas, what can be done at such a party so step forward and say it maybe its a really interesting idea. br gnokii -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe at opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help at opensuse.org From einfeldt at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 16:02:45 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:02:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops In-Reply-To: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1276836070.2415.19.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Zareason sold the KIPP San Francisco Bay Academy several GNU-Linux machines. I did the negotiating for the school. Zareason was great through the negotiations. There were lots of changes from the school's side, as they got their funding from Microsoft (!!!) through the California Microsoft Anti-trust Settlement Agreement (CMASA), and the rules for the CMASA rules were designed to discourgage the acquisition of FOSS machines (surprise!). Zareason put up with all of the details and changes, and then, most important, when it came time to deliver the machines, not only did they deliver good machines, but they came over to the school and spent an enormous amount of time actually running the network cables, etc. I have nothing but good things to say about Zareason. The story about the school getting its Linux computers paid for by Microsoft was slashdotted and appears here: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/11/1446254 There were several other vendors who would not take the school's order for the Linux computers, because the school couldn't guarantee payment. The school had to tell the vendors that if the Microsoft funding didn't come through, they would have had to decline payment and return the machines. Zareason was willing to take that risk; that's how much they believe in software freedom. As a result, I am a big Zareason fan, and I promote them whenever I get a chance. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wellmanron at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 16:43:55 2010 From: wellmanron at gmail.com (ron wellman) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:43:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops Message-ID: yay! I just this afternoon picked up the very first new laptop I have ever owned. My MO has been cheap low power laptops from ebay or CL. I'm gonna play with it this weekend. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com Fri Jun 18 18:07:00 2010 From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:07:00 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C1C1834.1080209@gmail.com> And?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? You can't leave us hanging like that. What did you get? On 06/18/2010 04:43 PM, ron wellman wrote: > yay! I just this afternoon picked up the very first new laptop I have > ever owned. My MO has been cheap low power laptops from ebay or CL. I'm > gonna play with it this weekend. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -- Sent from my ASR-33 From algoldor at yahoo.com Fri Jun 18 19:57:21 2010 From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 19:57:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] volunteering at Zareason Message-ID: <247360.98055.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi to All, Well that Zareason response was really nice and I believe that is how it shoud be done and probably how it was done some 60 years ago in everyday life. Would someone know if they are open minded about some volunteer learning experience? I'm doing several?projects at Noisebridge which is really great place and spots like these are just wonderfull. Thanks Jim I've nearly forgot about this company and that would be a pitty. Sincerely, Frantisek From sverma at sfsu.edu Fri Jun 18 20:10:32 2010 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:10:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF June meeting Message-ID: Note: We are trying to ramp up some Python+Sugar projects, so we'd love to hear from those of you who dabble in Python. We will meet at SFSU Downtown Center from 10 am to 2pm on June 19. Carol Ruth Silver will update us on the Realness Summit (http://realness.org/) . We will also have Grant Bowman talk about the XO Toaster project. Al Sweigart is also planning on being there. His book "Invent with Python" is available online. http://inventwithpython.com/ We'll also do the usual event updates with new builds for XO-1, progress with XO 1.5 and school server hardware progress. I have the latest build (RC2) for XO 1.5 and the os180py build for XO 1 (Paraguay deployment build based on Fedora 11). What: OLPC-SF June 2010 meeting OLPC-SF will meet on June 19, 2010. Items on the agenda: * Meet and greet - 10:00 am to 10:30 am * Carol Ruth Silver: OLPC Realness Summit - 10:30 am to 11:30 am * Grant Bowman: XOToaster and InventWithPython - 11:30am to 1:00pm * Other updates/discussions - 1:00 pm to 2:00 pm * XO-1 build updates. * XO 1.5 effort. * Fedora 11 on XO-1. * School server and content libraries. * Sugar on a Stick v3 - Mirabelle. When: Saturday, June 19, 2010. * 10 am to 2 pm Where: Room 553, SF State Downtown campus (835 Market St., San Francisco,CA, 94103). Note that this location is NOT the main campus. This is the same building as the new Westfield mall that houses Bloomingdale's. Look for the SFSU banner on Market St. between 4th and 5th streets, right next to Walgreens. Take the elevator to the 5th floor. * By car: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/car.html * By Muni: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/muni.html * By BART: http://www.sfsu.edu/~parking/directions/downtown_center/bart.html A huge thank you to San Francisco State University's College of Business Graduate Program for letting us use a room on Saturdays. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Campus Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat Jun 19 05:12:45 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:12:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] volunteering at Zareason In-Reply-To: <247360.98055.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <247360.98055.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, If you are looking for an opportunity to volunteer and Zareason doesn't have an opportunity for you, you could volunteer for our Partimus.org schools effort. We bring Linux computers into schools. Our server architect, James Howard, has created a really remarkable server operating system which allows us to mass install Linux over the network. It is amazing to see his work in action. We really make a difference in the lives of the teachers & students we serve. :-) On Jun 18, 2010 7:59 PM, "Frantisek Apfelbeck" wrote: Hi to All, Well that Zareason response was really nice and I believe that is how it shoud be done and probably how it was done some 60 years ago in everyday life. Would someone know if they are open minded about some volunteer learning experience? I'm doing several projects at Noisebridge which is really great place and spots like these are just wonderfull. Thanks Jim I've nearly forgot about this company and that would be a pitty. Sincerely, Frantisek _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bliss at sfo.com Sat Jun 19 09:52:42 2010 From: bliss at sfo.com (B Sellers) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:52:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: OT: The Linux Fish Message-ID: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: OT: The Linux Fish Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 09:02:13 -0700 From: Nobody in Particular Reply-To: nobody at invalid.com Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.mandriva Followup-To: alt.os.linux.mandriva We've all seen those "fish" emblems on cars with all their derivatives. Now there's one for Linux "devotees": http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/car/2898/ From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat Jun 19 11:54:12 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:54:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: OT: The Linux Fish In-Reply-To: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> References: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> Message-ID: This almost make want to go out and buy a car so that I can put this Linux fish on it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nbs at sonic.net Sat Jun 19 13:49:44 2010 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 13:49:44 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: OT: The Linux Fish In-Reply-To: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> References: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> Message-ID: <20100619204944.GC10933@sonic.net> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 09:52:42AM -0700, B Sellers wrote: > > We've all seen those "fish" emblems on cars with > all their derivatives. > Now there's one for Linux "devotees": > > http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/car/2898/ 'Now?' :) I had one on my car in 1999! :) -bill! From wellmanron at gmail.com Sat Jun 19 17:55:45 2010 From: wellmanron at gmail.com (ron wellman) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:55:45 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] zareason advice about laptops yay! I just this afternoon picked up the very first new laptop I have ever owned. My MO has been cheap low power laptops from ebay or CL. I'm gonna play with it this weekend. -------------- next part ------- Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 16:43:55 -0700 From: ron wellman yay! I just this afternoon picked up the very first new laptop I have ever owned. My MO has been cheap low power laptops from ebay or CL. I'm gonna play with it this weekend. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20100618/16e7339f/attachment-0001.htm > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:07:00 -0700 From: Michael Shiloh And?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? You can't leave us hanging like that. What did you get? OH, sorry. I bought a Zareason Alto xxxx. I was in Berkeley yesterday so I stopped by and picked it up. They're great folks. I had to work today, so I have charged the battery and will begin playing with it this evening! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grantbow at gmail.com Sat Jun 19 22:25:23 2010 From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:25:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] volunteering at Zareason In-Reply-To: <247360.98055.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <247360.98055.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote: > Hi to All, > Well that Zareason response was really nice and I believe that is how it shoud be done and probably how it was done some 60 years ago in everyday life. Would someone know if they are open minded about some volunteer learning experience? I'm doing several?projects at Noisebridge which is really great place and spots like these are just wonderfull. > Thanks Jim I've nearly forgot about this company and that would be a pitty. Hello Frantisek, There is some significant overlap among these various community groups right now. You want volunteer experience, right? What kind? I'm at noisebridge most Wednesdays for the regular Linux Discussion group from 6 - 8 and would be happy to try to explain what I know. I work with Christian, James, the Malmroses and other good folks with partimus.org, Jim with sf-lug.org and noisebridge.net and help Jack keep the berkeleylug.com moving forward which had our last meeting at the zareason.com shop in Berkeley run by the Malmroses. Grant Bowman https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sun Jun 20 12:57:50 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 12:57:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] OpsCamp adds Google Group for continued discussion Message-ID: <20100620125750.39426mtgbotmo0gs@webmail.rawbw.com> As a followup to OpsCAMP SF 2010-05-15, OpsCAMP now has a Google Group for continued discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/opscamp references/excerpts: Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 02:31:42 +0000 Subject: Google Groups: You've been invited to OpsCamp Discussion Group Dave Nielsen has invited you to join the OpsCamp Discussion Group group with this message: Hello fellow OpsCampers, We had a great time at OpsCamp SF last weekend and we hope you did too. As discussed, we agreed to continue the discussion online using this Google Group. We will share notes from OpsCamp and carry on the discussion of all things IT operations, including discussions about toolchains, etc. So with this in mind, we'd like to invite you to join the OpsCamp discussion group on Google Groups. Cheers, Dave Nielsen OpsCamp http://twitter.com/opscamp Here is the group's description: A forum for discussing "Operations in a Cloudy World" - aka Operations related to Cloud Computing and other IT Management Operations http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2010-May/000152.html 2010-05-15: OpsCamp (San Francisco 9a-5p(+++?)) OpsCAMP SF 2010-05-15: http://www.opscamp.org/sf " Mission About The Event OpsCamp is an unconference for people who are deeply involved with next generation IT Operations. Our first OpsCamp in Austin was an interesting mix of Ops practitioners and tool makers in an all interactive format. " From cymraegish at gmail.com Sun Jun 20 18:15:43 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 18:15:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: OT: The Linux Fish In-Reply-To: References: <4C1CF5DA.9010309@sfo.com> Message-ID: On 6/19/10, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > This almost make want to go out and buy a car so that I can put this Linux > fish on it. > it is available with an adhesive backing so you could stick on a computer if you want, (like a laptop) or figure out a way to hang it off the back of your bike seat probably... I am more tempted to send some $ to gnu just for a few more of their great stickers... Brian From jim at well.com Mon Jun 21 20:26:06 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 20:26:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, June 24, 2010: Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction Message-ID: <1277177166.1583.93.camel@jim-laptop> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday, June 24, 2010: Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction Tonight's talk is * Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction, by Minesh B. Amin, the first part of a two-part presentation Meetings usually start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. Tonight's Newbie Nugget: A Documentation Tip LOCATION Symantec Corporation Symantec Vcafe 350 Ellis Street Mountain View, CA 94043 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18 BayPIGgies meeting information is available at http://www.baypiggies.net/ ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------ ..... 7:30 PM ........................... General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any first-minute announcements. ..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................ Newbie Nugget: A Documentation Tip ..... 7:45 PM to 8:40 PM (or so) ................ June 24, 2010 -- First of a two-part presentation: Exploiting Parallelism - A Concise and Practical Introduction by Minesh B. Amin In his book In Search of Clusters, Gregory Pfister said it best. To paraphrase, there are three ways to do anything faster: work harder, work smarter, or get help. In computer-speak, this roughly translates to: increase processor speed, improve algorithms, or exploit parallelism. With processor speeds no longer doubling every eighteen months, and little or no room left for improvements in serial algorithms, exploiting parallelism is the one frontier with the potential for delivering huge improvements in performance. This talk introduces terminology and concepts to develop an understanding of how to exploit parallelism; present mental models for decomposing problems to exploit parallelism; and apply these concepts to survey available solutions, including Open MPI, Open MP, MapReduce/Hadoop, Intel threading blocks, Python multiprocessing module, and a handful of commercial solutions. Minesh B. Amin is the founder and CEO of MBA Sciences, which recently introduced the SPM.Python product that enables users to easily create parallel applications using an integrated Python API and framework. Minesh received his PhD in Computer Science from the University of Minnesota and moved to the Silicon Valley, developing software solutions at ViewLogic and Synopsys prior to starting MBA Sciences in 2006. He is a big fan of the Python language and in his spare time enjoys Pink Floyd, House, hiking and firing up a barbecue grill, though not necessarily in that order. :-) Links: http://mbasciences.com/ ..... 8:50 PM to 9:30 PM ................ Mapping and Random Access Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, events, and other topics. Random Access follows people immediately to allow follow up on the announcements and other interests. From dymondog at yahoo.com Thu Jun 24 13:52:51 2010 From: dymondog at yahoo.com (Robert Briley) Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 13:52:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] email duplication Message-ID: <164851.5144.qm@web43138.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am having a problem with email appearing as duplicates using both thuderbird and evolution.? Not all messages are duplicated but many are.? I have done some checking and it appears that part of the problem is that a single letter will be sent by more than one path.? That is many of the duplicates have the same title and message, but the path in the headder shows that they originated as one message but that message at some point was handed off to 2 different mail servers.? I thought that evolution was only concerned with the title and time when deterrnining unique emails.? Is this a problem with the server or do I still need to do some tweaking on my clients?? How can I stop this problem? Rob Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causeshim to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and toconfuse the true with the false and the false with the true. - - Martin Luther King, Jr. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Sat Jun 26 06:37:16 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:37:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] tar license plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100626063716.17935jvfzonc6dk4@webmail.rawbw.com> Naw, the old way would be: tar xf - File would be given as non-option argument (or - for standard input), x conflicts with c, so wouldn't use both, none of that newfangled z option stuff, and v is far too chattily annoying - particularly on the hardcopy terminal, so it would generally be avoided. Input would be in lowercase, unless one was stuck on terminal that only does uppercase, in which case, stty lcase comes in very handy - and login/getty would typically set that by default upon login if the login and password was entered with no lowercase letters - for many/most versions that's still the case for backwards compatibility - try entering one's login and password all in uppercase (if there are any actual uppercase letters in such, precede them with a backslash (\)), and watch what happens. references/excerpts: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol1.pdf > Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 18:33:06 -0700 > From: Brian Morris > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] For Linux lovers everywhere > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > The c confuses things, didn't it always mean "create" ? thus > conflicting with x ? Unless you want to think of it as C, which to me > confuses things. > > anyway I would prefer xvjf as the new way, xvzf as the old way. > > maybe those were already taken. > > On 6/1/10, Michael Shiloh wrote: >> rotfl >> >> you know he/she is old school because youngsters would use zxvf >> >> On 06/01/2010 09:34 AM, John F. Strazzarino wrote: >>> Walking thru the parking lot at the San Bruno Bart Station the other >>> day... >>> License Plate on Car... >>> TAR XFCV >>> Gotta love it.... From einfeldt at gmail.com Sat Jun 26 06:39:50 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:39:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Help moving Linux computers today Message-ID: Hi, I am going to be moving Linux computers today from 10 am to 12 noon today. A hole just opened up in. My schedule, and I have to take advantage of it, which is why the last minute notice. If you would like to help, please just show up at the KIPP school at the corner of Geary and Scott at 9:55 am. Please feel free to call me from 9:55 on at 415-351-1300. I will not be reachable, unfortunately, via phone or email or text until 9:55. Thanks eith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cymraegish at gmail.com Sat Jun 26 20:51:05 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 20:51:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! Message-ID: I just was trying Ubuntu server ppc for an old g3 -- the Gnome Desktop default was way too slow, but I found these LXDE packages and they worked good so I put them on my g4 powerbook too. Wow, great ! Gnome is so slow ! Debian has them too (that's what the g4 is running, the only reason I used ubuntu for the g3 powerbook was that the pc-card wifi was broken on debian) -- my g4 is running squeeze. Its really nice there. Another good newish lightweight tool I just found is links2. Unlike the other members of the lynx family this one runs in graphical or text mode. No javascript though (but that support in Elinks wasn't working too well for me anyway). bbc.co.uk takes you to a simplified version of their site with text and pictures only (no "flashy" stuff). Links2 can also do gmail pretty well. Graphical mode also includes buttons and a pull down menu. Brian From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jun 28 13:16:20 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 13:16:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > I just was trying Ubuntu server ppc for an old g3 -- the Gnome > Desktop default was way too slow, but I found these LXDE packages and > they worked good so I put them on my g4 powerbook too. Wow, great ! > Gnome is so slow ! > > Debian has them too (that's what the g4 is running, the only reason I > used ubuntu for the g3 powerbook was that the pc-card wifi was broken > on debian) -- my g4 is running squeeze. Its really nice there. LXDE runs fine on old G3 machines with limited RAM, e.g., 128 MB or so (and I've done that), as does XFCE4. However, your best bet for that or any other limited-RAM machine is to take a very close look at what is using RAM and eliminate unnecessary items from your runtime configuration. E.g., the X session manager and X display manager can go, as can all but one or two of the almost-entirely-unused virtual terminals[1], and every other process you can't find a specific reason why you want to autorun it for no better reason than starting your machine and launching X11. On a machine where I'm trying to get the most out of limited RAM, the first thing I do is eliminate session management and the display manager. Then, I install a lightweight window manager (your choice: I personally still like Window Maker)[2], then I prune virtual terminals, then I restart the machine, login, do 'startx' to fire up X11, open an xterm, and have a good look at 'ps auxw | less' to see what's still running by default. Your rule of thumb should be: If you can't figure out why you're running a process, try killing it and see what happens. If you don't miss it, by a functional definition you don't need it. After that exercise, if the machine isn't _too_ RAM-starved (e.g., not under 128 MB), you should be able to get away with real productivity software such as Firefox, AbiWord, and Gnumeric. [1] Most distros keep six of these running, all chewing up RAM. When's the last time you used more than one? [2] http://xwinman.org/ From jim at well.com Mon Jun 28 13:47:42 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 13:47:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] email duplication In-Reply-To: <164851.5144.qm@web43138.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <164851.5144.qm@web43138.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1277758062.1683.263.camel@jim-laptop> this sounds like something's weird server-side. could you clip the sections of the headers for the duplicates of a particular message? (also i wonder if there's some way to configure the clients to hide such nearly identical emails.) On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 13:52 -0700, Robert Briley wrote: > I am having a problem with email appearing as duplicates using both > thuderbird and evolution. Not all messages are duplicated but many > are. I have done some checking and it appears that part of the > problem is that a single letter will be sent by more than one path. > That is many of the duplicates have the same title and message, but > the path in the headder shows that they originated as one message but > that message at some point was handed off to 2 different mail > servers. > > I thought that evolution was only concerned with the title and time > when deterrnining unique emails. Is this a problem with the server or > do I still need to do some tweaking on my clients? How can I stop > this problem? > > Rob > > Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It > causeshim to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, > and toconfuse the true with the false and the false with the true. > - - Martin Luther King, Jr. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ From cymraegish at gmail.com Mon Jun 28 19:37:21 2010 From: cymraegish at gmail.com (Brian Morris) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:37:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Its the desktop Gnome that? really slow and greedy of both cpu and ram, but cpu especially. I have an old 350mhz g3 imac that has the standard ubuntu install on it and it takes like a full minute to do anything even with 512MB ram or more. by contrast the old 300mhz powerbook with 384 ram does fine with lxde. I did try XFCE once on the g4 but it seemed not worth it, not much faster than gnome and not much functionality for what it spends. by contrast LXDE is being designed for low end netbooks both efficient and with nice features almost as nice as gnome (full menus with clock and other icon apps and file browser and tabs and etc) -- a far cry from plain openbox I had been using for a long time. As far as the browser, yes firefox can run in pretty low ram, less than 256MB total on your machine. But links2 does nice clean text with pictures basics and has menu and scrollbar and mouse support in grafix mode and is at least 2x faster than firefox. Like I said it is #1 the speed, with good enough functionality basics on an old computer. Even on a newer or faster machine you are saving energy in both cpu and ram and helping to save the planet and your electric bills. What I use a browser like links2 for is basicly reading like I said static web pages either on the net or locally which I do a lot. Often I am studying programming and using tech reference or study materials and want to save my ram/cpu for the actual programming part, also my screen space which by the way links2 is a bit cleaner around. I detest bloatware... I?e booted up some old versions of linux on these old machines, like 1998, 2000, 2002; its fairly appalling the Huge differences both in speed and other resources used. Seriously it was downhill from KDE to Gnome to simple window manager, may as well be going backwards in time instead of forwards in terms of the user experience !! Brian Brian On 6/28/10, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > >> I just was trying Ubuntu server ppc for an old g3 -- the Gnome >> Desktop default was way too slow, but I found these LXDE packages and >> they worked good so I put them on my g4 powerbook too. Wow, great ! >> Gnome is so slow ! >> >> Debian has them too (that's what the g4 is running, the only reason I >> used ubuntu for the g3 powerbook was that the pc-card wifi was broken >> on debian) -- my g4 is running squeeze. Its really nice there. > > LXDE runs fine on old G3 machines with limited RAM, e.g., 128 MB or so > (and I've done that), as does XFCE4. > > However, your best bet for that or any other limited-RAM machine is to > take a very close look at what is using RAM and eliminate unnecessary > items from your runtime configuration. E.g., the X session manager and X > display manager can go, as can all but one or two of the > almost-entirely-unused virtual terminals[1], and every other process you > can't find a specific reason why you want to autorun it for no better > reason than starting your machine and launching X11. > > On a machine where I'm trying to get the most out of limited RAM, the > first thing I do is eliminate session management and the display > manager. Then, I install a lightweight window manager (your choice: I > personally still like Window Maker)[2], then I prune virtual terminals, > then I restart the machine, login, do 'startx' to fire up X11, open an > xterm, and have a good look at 'ps auxw | less' to see what's still > running by default. Your rule of thumb should be: If you can't figure > out why you're running a process, try killing it and see what happens. > If you don't miss it, by a functional definition you don't need it. > > After that exercise, if the machine isn't _too_ RAM-starved (e.g., not > under 128 MB), you should be able to get away with real productivity > software such as Firefox, AbiWord, and Gnumeric. > > > [1] Most distros keep six of these running, all chewing up RAM. When's > the last time you used more than one? > > [2] http://xwinman.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Jun 28 21:40:57 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 21:40:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > As far as the browser, yes firefox can run in pretty low ram, less > than 256MB total on your machine. It actually should run OK on a _128 MB_ total G3, if you have bothered to properly pare down your distribution's runtime configuration. That's really my point. People waste a lot of time trying to find sparse default distro installations, i.e., ones that are tolerable on low-spec machines at the end of the installation process, when they'd have a much superior experience by starting with almost any successful distro installation and simply paring it down -- including using a simple window manager w/o session management, a display manager, etc., instead of any of those 'desktop environment' supersets, even thrify ones like LXDE. (Although yes, LXDE's a good starting point.) Since you're wanting to save RAM/CPU for actual programming work, this should be at the top of your priority list, IMO. (BTW, in case you want to look at other RAM-thrify Web browsers: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#linuxbrowser ) > I detest bloatware... I've booted up some old versions of linux on > these old machines, like 1998, 2000, 2002; Heh. When I say 'old Linux', I think more about things like Slackware 2.0, released just a wee bit ago, in '94. ;-> From akkana at shallowsky.com Tue Jun 29 09:34:16 2010 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:34:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100629163415.GA2110@shallowsky.com> Rick Moen writes: > Quoting Brian Morris (cymraegish at gmail.com): > > As far as the browser, yes firefox can run in pretty low ram, less > > than 256MB total on your machine. > > It actually should run OK on a _128 MB_ total G3, if you have bothered It may want to use nearly all of that, though, so it may end up swapping if you use multiple tabs or if you want to run other sizable apps at the same time as Firefox. I remember when I had to run Firefox and OpenOffice, or Firefox and (ugh) Adobe acroread, simultaneously on my 192M laptop. It worked but it was very slow. > People waste a lot of time trying to find sparse > default distro installations, i.e., ones that are tolerable on low-spec > machines at the end of the installation process, when they'd have a > much superior experience by starting with almost any successful distro > installation and simply paring it down -- including using a simple > window manager w/o session management, a display manager, etc., instead > of any of those 'desktop environment' supersets, even thrify ones like > LXDE. (Although yes, LXDE's a good starting point.) For a really small machine, like 128M, there's some advantage to starting with lightweight distros -- not because they have fewer apps, but because they're set up to run with lightweight kernels and without requiring all the extra daemons like gconfd and hal and gvfs that distros like Ubuntu build in even if you don't run a gnome desktop. You can excise those even from Ubuntu, but it's more work and may require rebuilding some apps from source if you want full functionality. That said, I do take the same approach Rick does, starting with a full distro (Ubuntu) and paring it down, and I agree that's probably best for most people. I gave a talk on that recently to PenLUG and SVLUG. The handout for the talk has lists of lightweight apps and window managers. http://shallowsky.com/featherweight/ I agree with Rick about "desktop environments", too -- I run straight openbox (the window manager LXDE uses) on my own desktops and haven't seen the need for LXDE on top of it. ...Akkana From jim at well.com Tue Jun 29 10:24:08 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:24:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? Message-ID: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> i believe today is the day that my cellphone contract lets me upgrade. i wanna android because i like the buzz (google policies in general seem a cut above most other techy corporations). any opinions: why choose either the HTC incredible or the Motorola droid phone? what's this to do with linux? i believe the OS of both phones is linux-based, yes? i've learned not to be hopeful that some small mobile device with linux will present a bash shell and some way to plug in a keyboard and mouse and maybe even a display. sure would be nice to transfer files using an ext? format and also nice to ssh into the thing from my computer. what am i missing, i.e. what do people do with these things that my vt100 style doesn't ken? From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 11:46:36 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 11:46:36 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Hi Jim, I am writing this email from my Motorola Droid. The Moto Droid is not as fast as an HTC Incerdible but the Moto Droid has a hard keyboard, whic I really like. At first, I thought that the Moto droid keyboard might be hard to use, but after just 3 minutes of practice, I was comfortable and fairlyh accurate with it. And yes all Android phones can gat BASH terminals, although you don't immediately have root On Jun 29, 2010 10:26 AM, "jim" wrote: i believe today is the day that my cellphone contract lets me upgrade. i wanna android because i like the buzz (google policies in general seem a cut above most other techy corporations). any opinions: why choose either the HTC incredible or the Motorola droid phone? what's this to do with linux? i believe the OS of both phones is linux-based, yes? i've learned not to be hopeful that some small mobile device with linux will present a bash shell and some way to plug in a keyboard and mouse and maybe even a display. sure would be nice to transfer files using an ext? format and also nice to ssh into the thing from my computer. what am i missing, i.e. what do people do with these things that my vt100 style doesn't ken? _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathan at foo-o-rama.com Tue Jun 29 13:10:31 2010 From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:10:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: If I were getting an Android phone, I'd look for one that has (or could easily be upgraded to) the Android 2.2 (Froyo) release. It's got a lot of good new features, not least of which is full Flash 10.1 support (as opposed to the hokey Flash Lite that's in previous versions). It might not be critical for you but it's a nice to have when browsing the web from a mobile device. I'm partial to it since I work for Adobe. :) Nathan On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I am writing this email from my Motorola Droid. The Moto Droid is not as > fast as an HTC Incerdible but the Moto Droid has a hard keyboard, whic I > really like. At first, I thought that the Moto droid keyboard might be hard > to use, but after just 3 minutes of practice, I was comfortable and fairlyh > accurate with it. > > And yes all Android phones can gat BASH terminals, although you don't > immediately have root > > On Jun 29, 2010 10:26 AM, "jim" wrote: > > > > i believe today is the day that my cellphone > contract lets me upgrade. i wanna android because > i like the buzz (google policies in general seem > a cut above most other techy corporations). > any opinions: why choose either the HTC > incredible or the Motorola droid phone? > > what's this to do with linux? i believe the > OS of both phones is linux-based, yes? > i've learned not to be hopeful that some > small mobile device with linux will present a > bash shell and some way to plug in a keyboard > and mouse and maybe even a display. > sure would be nice to transfer files using > an ext? format and also nice to ssh into the > thing from my computer. > what am i missing, i.e. what do people do > with these things that my vt100 style doesn't > ken? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jun 29 13:25:55 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:25:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: <20100629163415.GA2110@shallowsky.com> References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629163415.GA2110@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20100629202555.GM5430@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): > Rick Moen writes: [Firefox:] > > It actually should run OK on a _128 MB_ total G3, if you have bothered > > It may want to use nearly all of that, though, so it may end > up swapping if you use multiple tabs or if you want to run other > sizable apps at the same time as Firefox. I remember when I had > to run Firefox and OpenOffice, or Firefox and (ugh) Adobe acroread, > simultaneously on my 192M laptop. It worked but it was very slow. Absolutely. You would with 128MB total RAM be able to only a limited amount of _other_ things simultaneously with Firefox, and I would think OpenOffice.org would be the last thing you'd attempt in that capacity, as it has the worst case of bloat I know of on Linux aside from certain AV and specialised rendering examples. (Note that I specifically mentioned AbiWord and Gnumeric as more-suitable choices on relatively low-spec machines, so as to attempt to avoid the need to run OpenOffice.org.) I was talking last night offlist with my friend George Pope about the two key problems that lie behind all this: 1. Many Linux newcomers seem to never get around to even figuring out _how_ to take charge of what processes launch at startup time, let alone doing so. Which is why I keep hearing extreme solutions like Puppy Linux / DSL / Tiny Core on 128 MB RAM machines, instead of just being selective about what runs. 2. Many Linux users, not just newcomers, have absolutely no idea how to read the memory columns of 'ps' and 'top', and thus cannot say where their systems' memory is being used. (I see that your slides attempt to address that. Good.) > For a really small machine, like 128M, there's some advantage to > starting with lightweight distros -- not because they have fewer apps, > but because they're set up to run with lightweight kernels and without > requiring all the extra daemons like gconfd and hal and gvfs that > distros like Ubuntu build in even if you don't run a gnome desktop. > You can excise those even from Ubuntu, but it's more work and > may require rebuilding some apps from source if you want full > functionality. Yes, though it's not necessary to revert all the way down to lightweight distros to accomplish that. You can disable most of that junk with conventional but less-bloated distributions such as Debian, selecting an appropriate runtime kernel from those provided precompiled, and then turning off undesired kernel features at the module level. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Jun 29 13:30:34 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:30:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <20100629203034.GN5430@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Nathan Hoover (nathan at foo-o-rama.com): > If I were getting an Android phone, I'd look for one that has (or could > easily be upgraded to) the Android 2.2 (Froyo) release. IYTM 'CyanogenMod'. ;-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyanogenMod (Me, I'd avoid this business of not being in control of one's own smartphone. Yes, I'm aware that you probably have different priorities.) From jim at well.com Tue Jun 29 14:30:33 2010 From: jim at well.com (jim) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:30:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: <1277847033.1686.4.camel@jim-laptop> thanks, christian, now i got one, too. i hate it, of course, but its user interface is much better than that of the LG env touch. i suppose i'll get used to it and perhaps even think it's okay after a while. :wq On Tue, 2010-06-29 at 11:46 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I am writing this email from my Motorola Droid. The Moto Droid is not > as fast as an HTC Incerdible but the Moto Droid has a hard keyboard, > whic I really like. At first, I thought that the Moto droid keyboard > might be hard to use, but after just 3 minutes of practice, I was > comfortable and fairlyh accurate with it. > > And yes all Android phones can gat BASH terminals, although you don't > immediately have root > > > On Jun 29, 2010 10:26 AM, "jim" wrote: > > > > > > > > i believe today is the day that my cellphone > > contract lets me upgrade. i wanna android because > > i like the buzz (google policies in general seem > > a cut above most other techy corporations). > > any opinions: why choose either the HTC > > incredible or the Motorola droid phone? > > > > what's this to do with linux? i believe the > > OS of both phones is linux-based, yes? > > i've learned not to be hopeful that some > > small mobile device with linux will present a > > bash shell and some way to plug in a keyboard > > and mouse and maybe even a display. > > sure would be nice to transfer files using > > an ext? format and also nice to ssh into the > > thing from my computer. > > what am i missing, i.e. what do people do > > with these things that my vt100 style doesn't > > ken? > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/ > From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 15:18:40 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:18:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: <1277847033.1686.4.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> <1277847033.1686.4.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim wrote: > > thanks, christian, now i got one, too. > i hate it, of course, but its user interface > is much better than that of the LG env touch. i > suppose i'll get used to it and perhaps even > think it's okay after a while. > I know that you don't like GUI interfaces. You have helped me plenty of times with CLI interfaces, and so I am happy to help you with the Moto Droid GUI. It really is a useful tool, once you get past the learning curve. It is actually relatively intuitive, once you get familiar with GUIs. Please feel free to email me or phone me if you have any questions 415-35-1300 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From einfeldt at gmail.com Tue Jun 29 16:20:27 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:20:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] droid phones: HTC or Moto? In-Reply-To: <1277847033.1686.4.camel@jim-laptop> References: <1277832248.1683.323.camel@jim-laptop> <1277847033.1686.4.camel@jim-laptop> Message-ID: hi, On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim wrote: > > thanks, christian, now i got one, too. > i hate it, of course, but its user interface > is much better than that of the LG env touch. i > suppose i'll get used to it and perhaps even > think it's okay after a while. I do recommend that any user of a touch-screen phone get a plastic shield for their phone, and a shell to keep the shield in place. It is fairly easy to scratch the faceplate of any cell phone, and a plastic shield will protect you. The plastic shield is $15.00 for three plastic sheets (a scam) and a shell is about $35.00 (a rip-off) but in the long run, it is worth it. I find that even if I am careful, I occasionally stuff my Droid into a pocket with keys or other sharp metalic objects. You don't want to scratch the face plate of your phone. So yes, it is a scam and a rip-off to charge $50.00 for mere plastic, but you will probably be using your phone for 2 years, and so you can amortize it over 24 months, and it is less onerous to admit to yourself that you spent that kind of money for some dawgone plastic. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akkana at shallowsky.com Tue Jun 29 19:53:30 2010 From: akkana at shallowsky.com (Akkana Peck) Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:53:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: <20100629202555.GM5430@linuxmafia.com> References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629163415.GA2110@shallowsky.com> <20100629202555.GM5430@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20100630025330.GJ2110@shallowsky.com> Rick Moen writes: > (Note that I specifically mentioned AbiWord and Gnumeric as more-suitable > choices on relatively low-spec machines, so as to attempt to avoid the Yep, totally agree. Back then I *had* to use OpenOffice for a while (publisher that insisted on using MS Word and change tracking) and I'm glad that's over. Though my real advice on word processors is: ask yourself, do you really need to use a word processor most of the time? Could you get by with html or plaintext? I see so many people firing up OO (or Word, for non-Linux users) to write a two-line note to themselves. A lot of people (especially coming from Windows or Mac) don't even know what "plain text" means, or that a text editor is an option. > 1. Many Linux newcomers seem to never get around to even figuring out > _how_ to take charge of what processes launch at startup time, let alone > doing so. Which is why I keep hearing extreme solutions like > Puppy Linux / DSL / Tiny Core on 128 MB RAM machines, instead of just > being selective about what runs. That's a big factor in boot speed, too. You can cut boot times by a lot by disabling services you aren't using. > 2. Many Linux users, not just newcomers, have absolutely no idea how to > read the memory columns of 'ps' and 'top', and thus cannot say where > their systems' memory is being used. > > (I see that your slides attempt to address that. Good.) I do try to address it. But it's unfortunately not an easy question to answer. Linux memory is complicated and there are so many different ways of answering the question "How big is this app?" One of my favorite easy methods: Run "free" and record the "used", "-/+ buffers/cache" value. Then run the program you're wondering about (firefox, OO or whatever), run free again and see how the numbers changed. That's arguably more reliable than what top, ps, gnome system monitor, gmemusage, xosview etc. give you. (I wrote) > > For a really small machine, like 128M, there's some advantage to > > starting with lightweight distros -- not because they have fewer apps, > > but because they're set up to run with lightweight kernels and without > > requiring all the extra daemons like gconfd and hal and gvfs that > > Yes, though it's not necessary to revert all the way down to lightweight > distros to accomplish that. You can disable most of that junk with > conventional but less-bloated distributions such as Debian, selecting an > appropriate runtime kernel from those provided precompiled, and then > turning off undesired kernel features at the module level. Unfortunately it's not all kernel features. For instance, if you don't run hal on Ubuntu, then you won't get device nodes for a front-panel flash card reader -- unless you know how to hack your udev rules, in undocumented ways that change with each Ubuntu release. If you don't run plymouth on Ubuntu lucid, your boot goes quite a bit faster but sometimes mysteriously hangs for a while, or forever -- turns out it's just fsck, but fsck doesn't print output any more because that all goes through plymouth, so all you know is that your boot process has frozen. If you don't run gnome-vfs, you can't drag files to GIMP (e.g. from Firefox) because Ubuntu's gimp doesn't fall back on wget or curl. If you don't run gconfd, you have to dismiss a warning dialog every time you run firefox or various other gtk apps. And so on ... There are workarounds for everything, but it takes some work to set up and maintain them. And I want to stress that I do agree with you -- it's worth it to take a full distro and pare it down, and that's what I do myself. But I do understand why some people might want to take the mini- distro approach ... and put up with the separate set of problems that entails. ...Akkana From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Jun 30 03:41:11 2010 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:41:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] LXDE Rocks ! In-Reply-To: <20100630025330.GJ2110@shallowsky.com> References: <20100628201620.GJ5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629044057.GF5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100629163415.GA2110@shallowsky.com> <20100629202555.GM5430@linuxmafia.com> <20100630025330.GJ2110@shallowsky.com> Message-ID: <20100630104111.GZ5430@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Akkana Peck (akkana at shallowsky.com): [snip lots of good stuff to which I cannot add anything useful] > Though my real advice on word processors is: ask yourself, do you > really need to use a word processor most of the time? Could you get > by with html or plaintext? I see so many people firing up OO (or > Word, for non-Linux users) to write a two-line note to themselves. > A lot of people (especially coming from Windows or Mac) don't even > know what "plain text" means, or that a text editor is an option. It's rapidly falling out of date, but in the past I also made a special point of keeping a catalogue of all graphical word processors within my 'WordPerfect for Linux FAQ" that I maintained for the Linux Documentation Project: http://tldp.org/FAQ/WordPerfect-Linux-FAQ/future.html#ALTERNATIVES Among the interesting options I made a point of covering: o LyX o Ted (RTF editor) I recently installed the latter out of curiosity on Debian, and it's not bad, not to mention really RAM-thrifty. Me personally, I just use vim for just about everything, including invoicing. [Teaching people how to understand RAM usage.] > I do try to address it. But it's unfortunately not an easy question > to answer. Linux memory is complicated and there are so many > different ways of answering the question "How big is this app?" > > One of my favorite easy methods: Run "free" and record the "used", > "-/+ buffers/cache" value. Then run the program you're wondering > about (firefox, OO or whatever), run free again and see how the > numbers changed. That's arguably more reliable than what top, ps, > gnome system monitor, gmemusage, xosview etc. give you. Yes, I read that, and admired the directness and logic of it. (I read the other slides too -- for which, thanks -- but noticed that as a particularly sensible and effective point. > Unfortunately it's not all kernel features. For instance, if you > don't run hal on Ubuntu, then you won't get device nodes for a > front-panel flash card reader -- unless you know how to hack your > udev rules, in undocumented ways that change with each Ubuntu release. > If you don't run plymouth on Ubuntu lucid, your boot goes quite a > bit faster but sometimes mysteriously hangs for a while, or forever > -- turns out it's just fsck, but fsck doesn't print output any more > because that all goes through plymouth, so all you know is that > your boot process has frozen. If you don't run gnome-vfs, you can't > drag files to GIMP (e.g. from Firefox) because Ubuntu's gimp doesn't > fall back on wget or curl. If you don't run gconfd, you have to > dismiss a warning dialog every time you run firefox or various other > gtk apps. And so on ... There are workarounds for everything, but it > takes some work to set up and maintain them. I'm dismissing that irksome and meaningless warning dialogue on Debian's Firefox (er, Iceweasel) every time I start it, in fact. It really pisses me off that _even_ Debian has fallen so badly into GNOME disease that its headliner Web browser issues meaningless complaints if you've disabled gconfd on account of having absolutely no need or desire to run it. Grrr. And yes, HAL has indeed been a problem for similar reasons, and I've been pursuing several alternative workarounds and intending to eventually get around to document recommended ways for working around GNOME / freedesktop.org brain damage. From b79net at gmail.com Wed Jun 30 15:24:09 2010 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:24:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Turning off the bell in the X Window System Message-ID: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> While using the Chrome browser and back-spacing through the url field, a loud BEEP is emitted when I hit the left end of the field. This becomes a significant annoyance when my laptop is plugged into a stereo and I get an incredibly annoying square wave coming though the speakers. For some reason this is proving to be a more challenging problem to solve that I thought it would be. I tried `xset b off` and ` $ xset -b` to no avail. I'd really like to set up my machine so that it never makes any such beeping sound ever. Ok, well maybe when the battery is at a dangerously low level. I've accomplished this in the console with `setterm -blength 0`, and would like to do the same in X. This is Debian Linux, using the Fluxbox WM, on a ThinkPad X40. Any suggestions much appreciated, John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From darose at darose.net Wed Jun 30 15:34:43 2010 From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 18:34:43 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Turning off the bell in the X Window System In-Reply-To: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <4C2BC683.8050705@darose.net> On 06/30/2010 06:24 PM, John Magolske wrote: > While using the Chrome browser and back-spacing through the url field, > a loud BEEP is emitted when I hit the left end of the field. This > becomes a significant annoyance when my laptop is plugged into a > stereo and I get an incredibly annoying square wave coming though the > speakers. For some reason this is proving to be a more challenging > problem to solve that I thought it would be. > > I tried `xset b off` and ` $ xset -b` to no avail. > > I'd really like to set up my machine so that it never makes any > such beeping sound ever. Ok, well maybe when the battery is at a > dangerously low level. I've accomplished this in the console with > `setterm -blength 0`, and would like to do the same in X. > > This is Debian Linux, using the Fluxbox WM, on a ThinkPad X40. > > Any suggestions much appreciated, > > John In a console, go into the alsamixer app, and turn off the beep or pc speaker channel. HTH, DR From b79net at gmail.com Wed Jun 30 15:51:13 2010 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:51:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Turning off the bell in the X Window System In-Reply-To: <4C2BC683.8050705@darose.net> References: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> <4C2BC683.8050705@darose.net> Message-ID: <20100630225113.GA14152@s70206.gridserver.com> * David Rosenstrauch [100630 15:41]: > On 06/30/2010 06:24 PM, John Magolske wrote: >> While using the Chrome browser and back-spacing through the url field, >> a loud BEEP is emitted when I hit the left end of the field. This >> becomes a significant annoyance when my laptop is plugged into a >> stereo and I get an incredibly annoying square wave coming though the >> speakers. For some reason this is proving to be a more challenging >> problem to solve that I thought it would be. >> >> I tried `xset b off` and ` $ xset -b` to no avail. > > In a console, go into the alsamixer app, and turn off the beep or pc > speaker channel. I'm not seeing a beep or pc speaker channel listed when alsamixer comes up, just these options: Master Headphon PCM Line Line Jac CD Mic Mic Boos Mic Sele Video Phone Aux Mono Out Capture Mix Mix Mono External Stereo M John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From b79net at gmail.com Wed Jun 30 16:53:19 2010 From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:53:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Turning off the bell in the X Window System In-Reply-To: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <20100630235318.GA21862@s70206.gridserver.com> * John Magolske [100630 15:24]: > I tried `xset b off` and ` $ xset -b` to no avail. > > I'd really like to set up my machine so that it never makes any > such beeping sound ever. Ok, well maybe when the battery is at a > dangerously low level. I've accomplished this in the console with > `setterm -blength 0`, and would like to do the same in X. One option I've come across is to blacklist the pcspkr module in /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf ... which I haven't tried yet. Ideally I'd like to just turn off the bell, as there have been a few occasions where I forgot to plug in the AC adapter, the battery ran down to a very low level, and it was only the beeping that alerted me in time. But blacklisting that module may be the only solution at this point, as I believe this is a bug: Bug#564464: x11-xserver-utils: xset b no longer sets bell qualities http://us.generation-nt.com/bug-564464-x11-xserver-utils-xset-b-no-longer-sets-bell-qualities-help-168978431.html http://us.generation-nt.com/bug-564464-still-cant-adjust-bell-pitch-duration-xset-b-help-198719791.html John -- John Magolske http://B79.net/contact From einfeldt at gmail.com Wed Jun 30 17:07:06 2010 From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:07:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Noisebridge meeting tonight Message-ID: hi, I just wanted to remind everyone that there is a meeting of SF-LUG tonight and every Wednesday night at Noisebridge at 2169 Mission Street at 18th Street in San Francisco. I am particularly looking forward to talking with Jim Stockford about his Droid phone tonight. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From darose at darose.net Wed Jun 30 20:18:51 2010 From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:18:51 -0400 Subject: [sf-lug] Turning off the bell in the X Window System In-Reply-To: <20100630235318.GA21862@s70206.gridserver.com> References: <20100630221915.GA9013@s70206.gridserver.com> <20100630235318.GA21862@s70206.gridserver.com> Message-ID: <4C2C091B.6080301@darose.net> On 06/30/2010 07:53 PM, John Magolske wrote: > * John Magolske [100630 15:24]: >> I tried `xset b off` and ` $ xset -b` to no avail. >> >> I'd really like to set up my machine so that it never makes any >> such beeping sound ever. Ok, well maybe when the battery is at a >> dangerously low level. I've accomplished this in the console with >> `setterm -blength 0`, and would like to do the same in X. > > One option I've come across is to blacklist the pcspkr module in > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf ... which I haven't tried yet. Ideally > I'd like to just turn off the bell, as there have been a few occasions > where I forgot to plug in the AC adapter, the battery ran down to a > very low level, and it was only the beeping that alerted me in time. > But blacklisting that module may be the only solution at this point, > as I believe this is a bug: > > Bug#564464: x11-xserver-utils: xset b no longer sets bell qualities > http://us.generation-nt.com/bug-564464-x11-xserver-utils-xset-b-no-longer-sets-bell-qualities-help-168978431.html > http://us.generation-nt.com/bug-564464-still-cant-adjust-bell-pitch-duration-xset-b-help-198719791.html > > John Yes, you might try that as well. Forgot to mention it, but I'm blacklisting both snd_pcsp and pcspkr. HTH, DR From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu Wed Jun 30 20:59:31 2010 From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:59:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] HTML/Javascript slide package (skip the PowerPoint, go forward/backward with and , etc.) - simple HTML plus a bit of JavaScript Message-ID: <20100630205931.14376nntiev4of0g@webmail.rawbw.com> I stumbled across this nice little gem - thought I'd share: HTML/Javascript slide package (skip the PowerPoint, go forward/backward with and , etc.) - simple HTML plus a bit of JavaScript: Slide Presentations in HTML and JavaScript by Akkana Peck http://shallowsky.com/software/presentation/