From jim at well.com  Fri Oct  2 00:09:30 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 00:09:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets this sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM at cafe
	enchante on	geary at 26th
Message-ID: <1254467370.6374.25.camel@jim-laptop>


   SF-LUG meets this sunday, 20091004, at cafe enchante 
in san francisco on geary blvd at 26th avenue from 11 AM 
to 1 PM or so. 





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Oct  4 10:37:05 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:37:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] "Slides" ... and notes!: 2009 OpenSource World (nee
	LinuxWorld	Conference & Expo),
	also Next Generation Data Center (NGDC) and CloudWorld
Message-ID: <20091004103705.11589uhblnec6wcg@webmail.rawbw.com>

The conference portion of 2009 OpenSource World / NGDC / CloudWorld was,
overall, rather to quite good[1].  The presentation "slides" are also
available[2] (as PDF files).  For those that might be interested,
I've also got my chicken-scratch notes from sessions and keynotes I
attended available on-line[3].

footnotes/references:
1. sessions/keynotes varied from fair through excellent
2. http://www.opensourceworld.com/presentations
3. look under: http://www.rawbw.com/~mp/linux/OpenSource_World/




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Oct  4 11:56:42 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:56:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] About USB partitioning and formatting
In-Reply-To: <20090918003542.GJ29543@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1253152736.6415.80.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090918003542.GJ29543@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70910041156l444d8c3ch19e757eaea40eb91@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
>
>> ? ?i am, of course, interested in how my surmises
>> are wrong-headed and what might be misinformation
>> or omissions from the linked page.
>
> The basic advice is good (in that they qualify why they're saying what
> they say, and tell you why most repartitioning of NAND flash devices is
> likely to be actively harmful.
>
> I covered the same topic back in 2003 in an article I wrote for _Linux
> Journal_, back when these drives were a relatively new problem (and some
> of us ran still systems with 2.4 kernels):
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6867
>
> You'll note that I said I was avoiding re-doing the drive formatting
> to cut device fatigue, and because the provided FAT filesystem has
> the advantage of ubiquitous support, even though I referred to FAT as
> an "antique disk format". ?Detailing why would take a while, but
> basically it depends entirely too much on repeated reads/writes to a
> few fixed data structures. ?When the 65-byte (or whatever applies) blocks
> those key structures live on wear out, the entire NAND flash drive
> becomes landfill.
>
> One could argue that you'd be better off doing a one-time conversion to,
> say, JFFS2, which deliberately "levels" the NAND wear over the entire
> device. ?As the wiki page implies, you'd want to plan your mkfs.jffs2
> approach with some attention to the device's physical characteristics.
>
> I haven't personally played with JFFS or other NAND-appropriate
> filesystems, because flash drives are cheap, and the lingua-franca
> aspects of FAT are too useful.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

Here's something interesting about flash "disks" and filesystems that
work efficiently with them. This is a post by David Woodhouse, who
wrote JFFS. http://www.advogato.org/person/dwmw2/diary/211.html

Evidently, bulk of the problem stems from how vendors make SSDs appear
to be just like spinning disks. So, in effect, if you formatted your
filesystem to use ext3, it would be ext3 -> vendor's translation layer
-> SSD, which then implies that the vendor's translation layer (which
is proprietary) is to be relied on and if something goes wrong, we
don't have any open way to fix it.

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From haydenmuhl at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  5 11:30:00 2009
From: haydenmuhl at yahoo.com (Hayden Muhl)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:30:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Attn: Christian Einfeldt,
	et al. - Expanding the Linux userbase
Message-ID: <85408.1901.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I've been doing some thinking since last month's BALUG where Christian presented his work putting Linux computers in some underfunded local schools.  I gathered from his presentation that there are two main goals in this project.

1. Make computers available to schools that may not be able to otherwise afford them.
2. Expand the userbase of open source software by introducing it to students in these schools.

It seems that the first goal is being successfully met, so the subject of this email is about how to better meet the second goal.

One of the difficulties mentioned in having more students using Linux at home was tech support.  Supporting a school full of Linux desktops is manageable because evrything is in one central location.  If students start taking computers home and expecting tech support, you now have many multiple locations where you will have to deliver tech support.  This situation is much less manageable.

How do we solve this?  Laptops.

If students have laptops running Linux that they can take home, the logistics of tech support become much simpler.  If something is wrong with their computer, all they have to do is bring the computer in to school for troubleshooting.  Once again, those people providing tech support have one central location to work from.

Of course, this raises a couple questions.

1. Where can we find laptops for these students?
2. How difficult will it be to deal with non-standard laptop hardware?

1.  I've asked around among co-workers and web forums, and one common suggestion is to solicit large companies for donations.  Many companies have a policy to replace a laptop that is two or three years old.  This would take some footwork, but I'm sure we could find local companies willing to part with their old hardware.  IIRC, Partemis has, or is applying for 501(c)(3) status.  If that's the case, tax write-offs for in-kind donations could be used as an incentive to donate.

Some organizations may remove and destroy the hard drives as a security measure, but hard drives are fairly cheap to replace.  Since the idea is that the students will own these laptops, I don't think this it would be prohibitively expensive to expect the students to covers some of these costs.

2.  Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question.  This is something we would need to gauge in determining the feasability of this plan.

So, I'd like to open it up to the mailing list.  Does this seem like a realistic plan?  Are there considerations I've missed?  Any other random thoughts?

- Hayden Muhl



      



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Oct  5 11:52:54 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:52:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Attn: Christian Einfeldt,
	et al. - Expanding the Linux 	userbase
In-Reply-To: <85408.1901.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <85408.1901.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040910051152k2570a72br31678149db77ceee@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Hayden Muhl <haydenmuhl at yahoo.com> wrote:

> How do we solve this?  Laptops.
>

This is one solution that Partimus is pursuing.  We are actively looking for
grants, but if anyone on this list wanted to be really helpful, one possible
avenue is helping us look for grants, such as Hayden suggested.  Partimus
would then write the application and submit it.


> IIRC, Partemis has, or is applying for 501(c)(3) status.


Partimus has had a 501(c)(3) status for a couple of years.


> I don't think this it would be prohibitively expensive to expect the
> students to covers some of these costs.
>

Many of the students whom we are helping living in households below the
federal poverty guidelines.  They get subsidized lunches, or they don't eat
lunch in many cases.  It is difficult to exaggerate how poor some of these
kids are.

Thx for bringing up this topic, Hayden.
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Oct  5 18:08:51 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:08:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Attn: Christian Einfeldt,
	et al. - Expanding the Linux 	userbase
In-Reply-To: <85408.1901.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <85408.1901.qm@web51905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70910051808l6a0581e7g502cff548e038f80@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Hayden Muhl <haydenmuhl at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've been doing some thinking since last month's BALUG where Christian presented his work putting Linux computers in some underfunded local schools. ?I gathered from his presentation that there are two main goals in this project.
>
> 1. Make computers available to schools that may not be able to otherwise afford them.
> 2. Expand the userbase of open source software by introducing it to students in these schools.
>
> It seems that the first goal is being successfully met, so the subject of this email is about how to better meet the second goal.
>
> One of the difficulties mentioned in having more students using Linux at home was tech support. ?Supporting a school full of Linux desktops is manageable because evrything is in one central location. ?If students start taking computers home and expecting tech support, you now have many multiple locations where you will have to deliver tech support. ?This situation is much less manageable.
>
> How do we solve this? ?Laptops.
>
> If students have laptops running Linux that they can take home, the logistics of tech support become much simpler. ?If something is wrong with their computer, all they have to do is bring the computer in to school for troubleshooting. ?Once again, those people providing tech support have one central location to work from.
>
> Of course, this raises a couple questions.
>
> 1. Where can we find laptops for these students?
> 2. How difficult will it be to deal with non-standard laptop hardware?
>
> 1. ?I've asked around among co-workers and web forums, and one common suggestion is to solicit large companies for donations. ?Many companies have a policy to replace a laptop that is two or three years old. ?This would take some footwork, but I'm sure we could find local companies willing to part with their old hardware. ?IIRC, Partemis has, or is applying for 501(c)(3) status. ?If that's the case, tax write-offs for in-kind donations could be used as an incentive to donate.
>
> Some organizations may remove and destroy the hard drives as a security measure, but hard drives are fairly cheap to replace. ?Since the idea is that the students will own these laptops, I don't think this it would be prohibitively expensive to expect the students to covers some of these costs.
>
> 2. ?Honestly, I don't know the answer to this question. ?This is something we would need to gauge in determining the feasability of this plan.
>
> So, I'd like to open it up to the mailing list. ?Does this seem like a realistic plan? ?Are there considerations I've missed? ?Any other random thoughts?
>
> - Hayden Muhl
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

Sugarlabs.org is addressing this issue (although for children between
the ages of 6 and 12 approx.) with Sugar on a Stick (SoaS
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick). The idea is that the
child has a USB stick that moves from computer at school to computer
at home/library/community center. SoaS is fully bootable Fedora Linux
with Sugar (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Getting_Started) on it.

The work and the apps needed to create/edit/display the work all go
with the student in one package.

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Oct  5 18:17:27 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 18:17:27 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] About USB partitioning and formatting
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70910041156l444d8c3ch19e757eaea40eb91@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1253152736.6415.80.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090918003542.GJ29543@linuxmafia.com>
	<5fb387c70910041156l444d8c3ch19e757eaea40eb91@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091006011727.GX31333@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Sameer Verma (sverma at sfsu.edu):

> Here's something interesting about flash "disks" and filesystems that
> work efficiently with them. This is a post by David Woodhouse, who
> wrote JFFS. http://www.advogato.org/person/dwmw2/diary/211.html

Very enlightening, thanks.  I'm glad, for now, that I've not used NAND
flash devices for anything other than transporting data between machines
and as maintenance boot media.




From bliss at sfo.com  Thu Oct  8 13:02:25 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (B Sellers)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:02:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: Issue #3 of of Opensourc3 magazine is available for
	free download]
Message-ID: <4ACE4551.50100@sfo.com>


	Thought this might be of some interest to some of the users.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Issue #3 of of Opensourc3 magazine is available for free 
download
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 07:29:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: opensourc3 <craiglunt at opensourc3.org>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.hardware

Opensourc3 is a magazine dedicated to Unified and Cloud Computing
using open source technologies. It is published on a monthly basis.

This issue loooks at:

- KaOS- a new Open Source Hypervisor and virtualization platform
- Live Migration
- PostgreSQL
- Virtualizing VoIP
- Packet Analysis with ScaPY

For your free copy do to http://www.opensourc3.org . Issue 3 is
directly downloadable at 
http://download.opensourc3.org/pdf/issue3.pdf
or via flash reader at 
http://download.opensourc3.org/flash/issue3.html

-------- End Original Message --------

	later	
	Bobbie Sellers



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 15:49:23 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:49:23 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Open house for a Linux-powered public school next Saturday
	Oct 17 noon to 3 pm!
Message-ID: <4b5781040910081549t788f2a14uc64892af614dfe83@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

There will be an open house of one of the Linux-powered public schools in
San Francisco's Western Addition next Saturday, October 17, from noon to 3
pm.  You will be able to come and see our Linux LDAP lab and find out about
how we (Partimus.org) are doing Linux out-reach to staff, students, and the
students' parents to increase the visibility of Linux in this community.  If
you like messing with Linux computers (either software or hardware) or if
you are interested in helping maintain our server(s), we would be glad to
show you what we are doing.

Please call Christian Einfeldt when you arrive at 415-351-1300, so that
someone can let you into the school.

The school is located a the corner of Turk and Pierce streets in San
Francisco.  There is free parking for about 20 cars, but we encourage people
to take public transit.  The entrance to the parking lot is is on the north
side of Golden Gate, about 50 yards from Pierce Street, between Scott and
Pierce.  Golden Gate is a one-way street between Scott and Pierce, and so
you will need to approach the school from Golden Gate and Scott Street.  The
campus is large and confusing and there are two buildings, so you won't be
able to find your way by yourself, and the school is behind locked gates
24/7, so you will need to call Christian Einfeldt when you arrive to get in.

The school is served by bus stops at Pierce and Eddy (the 31 Balboa) and at
McAllister and Pierce (the 5 Fulton).   The 38 Geary bus has near-by stops
at Fillmore & Geary and at Scott and Geary, and the 24 Divisadero is two
blocks away, as is the 22 Fillmore.

We are not publishing the name of the school so as to avoid phone calls to
the school, so if you google the school, please don't call the school.  This
out-reach is a project of Partimus.org, a non-profit dedicated to bringing
Free Open Source Software to schools.
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From stoop.poetry at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 11:29:14 2009
From: stoop.poetry at gmail.com (Stoop)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:29:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Where can I get my computer transitioned?
Message-ID: <9a05ace50910111129t204e2a26m9d323f7c7209e8d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi there folks!

My name's Stoop, and I'm just new to San Francisco.

I have an old gateway pc that was transfered to linux, but it's about to
die. now i have a new dell pc, which i'd like to turn into a linux and on to
which i'd like to move all of the old computer files and docs. Im new to the
city and need to find out where i should go, or who i should contact for
such a service. when i lived in portland, i had a bad experience with
transitioning my pc, the guy did it wrong, didn't move my data over and
thankfully backed it up, but it was fairly scary. i could have lost
everything.

hopefully someone knows someone good and legit who can help me make a smooth
transition.

also looking into linux user classes to learn basics that I am still needing
help with.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your time!

Stoop
415-678-8290
-- 
Ability is nothing, without availability. Anonymous
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From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 11 11:52:29 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:52:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Where can I get my computer transitioned?
In-Reply-To: <9a05ace50910111129t204e2a26m9d323f7c7209e8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9a05ace50910111129t204e2a26m9d323f7c7209e8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1255287149.6428.95.camel@jim-laptop>


hiya, stoop. a lot of us in your position turn to 
each other for help. the essential steps are easy 
in concept: 
* analyze your data: what file formats do you have? 
what software exists on the target platform? must 
you convert some data to some format supported on 
the target? 
* convert any data to supported formats. 
* save data to two (not one) removeable or external 
storage devices or services. 
* test that the data is correctly copied. 
* ensure you can reinstall the existing operating 
system--e.g. do you have OS installation CDs? 
* install the new operating system. 
* copy the data from external storage to the host. 
* integrate the data with the required application 
software. 

   my guess is the toughest part for you is analysis. 

   here are some local resources: 
* sf-lug. us. ask for more help. you willing to have 
someone come to your house? willing to bring stuff 
to someone else's house? can you bring your machine 
to a sf-lug meeting? 
* noisebridge. http://www.noisebridge.net noisebridge 
has a publicly available location on mission near 18th 
street (2169 mission). th





On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 11:29 -0700, Stoop wro
> Hi there folks! 
> 
> My name's Stoop, and I'm just new to San Francisco.
> 
> I have an old gateway pc that was transfered to linux, but it's about
> to die. now i have a new dell pc, which i'd like to turn into a linux
> and on to which i'd like to move all of the old computer files and
> docs. Im new to the city and need to find out where i should go, or
> who i should contact for such a service. when i lived in portland, i
> had a bad experience with transitioning my pc, the guy did it wrong,
> didn't move my data over and thankfully backed it up, but it was
> fairly scary. i could have lost everything.
> 
> hopefully someone knows someone good and legit who can help me make a
> smooth transition.
> 
> also looking into linux user classes to learn basics that I am still
> needing help with.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Stoop
> 415-678-8290
> -- 
> Ability is nothing, without availability. Anonymous
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 11 12:05:36 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:05:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: Re:  Where can I get my computer transitioned?]
Message-ID: <1255287936.6428.109.camel@jim-laptop>


(continuation of previous message; my laptop clicks 
the mouse all by itself with unpredictable results). 


hiya, stoop. a lot of us in your position turn to each 
other for help. the essential steps are easy in concept: 
* analyze your data: what file formats do you have? 
what software exists on the target platform? must 
you convert some data to some other format that is 
supported on the new OS? 
* convert any data to supported formats. 
* save data to two (not one) removeable or external 
storage devices or services. 
* test that the data is correctly copied. 
* ensure you can reinstall the existing operating 
system--e.g. do you have OS installation CDs? 
* install the new operating system. 
* copy the data from external storage to the host. 
* integrate the data with the appropriate application 
software. 
   my guess is the toughest part for you is analysis. 


   here are some local resources: 

* sf-lug (us). ask for more help. you willing to have 
someone come to your house? willing to bring stuff to 
someone else's house? can you bring your machine to a 
sf-lug meeting? post more on this email list. 

* noisebridge. http://www.noisebridge.net noisebridge 
has a publicly available location on mission near 18th 
street (2169 mission). come by at 6 PM on wednesday 
evenings for the new linux discussion group. they have 
a mailing list that's _very_ active. 
https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Mailinglist 

* cabal. http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/ is a group that 
meets in menlo park on the second and fourth saturday 
afternoons of each month. bring your machine. they 
have a mailing list: 
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire 

* bay area linux events (BALE). 
http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ 





On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 11:29 -0700, Stoop wrote: 
> Hi there folks! 
> 
> My name's Stoop, and I'm just new to San Francisco.
> 
> I have an old gateway pc that was transfered to linux, but it's about
> to die. now i have a new dell pc, which i'd like to turn into a linux
> and on to which i'd like to move all of the old computer files and
> docs. Im new to the city and need to find out where i should go, or
> who i should contact for such a service. when i lived in portland, i
> had a bad experience with transitioning my pc, the guy did it wrong,
> didn't move my data over and thankfully backed it up, but it was
> fairly scary. i could have lost everything.
> 
> hopefully someone knows someone good and legit who can help me make a
> smooth transition.
> 
> also looking into linux user classes to learn basics that I am still
> needing help with.
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Stoop
> 415-678-8290
> -- 
> Ability is nothing, without availability. Anonymous
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 11 12:15:21 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:15:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: Re:  Where can I get my computer transitioned?]
In-Reply-To: <1255287936.6428.109.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1255287936.6428.109.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1255288521.6428.117.camel@jim-laptop>


one other thing. a couple of us are studying 
linux system administration on tuesdays and 
fridays from 3 PM to 6 PM at noisebridge. 
you're welcome to come play. 


On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 12:05 -0700, jim wrote:
> (continuation of previous message; my laptop clicks 
> the mouse all by itself with unpredictable results). 
> 
> 
> hiya, stoop. a lot of us in your position turn to each 
> other for help. the essential steps are easy in concept: 
> * analyze your data: what file formats do you have? 
> what software exists on the target platform? must 
> you convert some data to some other format that is 
> supported on the new OS? 
> * convert any data to supported formats. 
> * save data to two (not one) removeable or external 
> storage devices or services. 
> * test that the data is correctly copied. 
> * ensure you can reinstall the existing operating 
> system--e.g. do you have OS installation CDs? 
> * install the new operating system. 
> * copy the data from external storage to the host. 
> * integrate the data with the appropriate application 
> software. 
>    my guess is the toughest part for you is analysis. 
> 
> 
>    here are some local resources: 
> 
> * sf-lug (us). ask for more help. you willing to have 
> someone come to your house? willing to bring stuff to 
> someone else's house? can you bring your machine to a 
> sf-lug meeting? post more on this email list. 
> 
> * noisebridge. http://www.noisebridge.net noisebridge 
> has a publicly available location on mission near 18th 
> street (2169 mission). come by at 6 PM on wednesday 
> evenings for the new linux discussion group. they have 
> a mailing list that's _very_ active. 
> https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Mailinglist 
> 
> * cabal. http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/ is a group that 
> meets in menlo park on the second and fourth saturday 
> afternoons of each month. bring your machine. they 
> have a mailing list: 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire 
> 
> * bay area linux events (BALE). 
> http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, 2009-10-11 at 11:29 -0700, Stoop wrote: 
> > Hi there folks! 
> > 
> > My name's Stoop, and I'm just new to San Francisco.
> > 
> > I have an old gateway pc that was transfered to linux, but it's about
> > to die. now i have a new dell pc, which i'd like to turn into a linux
> > and on to which i'd like to move all of the old computer files and
> > docs. Im new to the city and need to find out where i should go, or
> > who i should contact for such a service. when i lived in portland, i
> > had a bad experience with transitioning my pc, the guy did it wrong,
> > didn't move my data over and thankfully backed it up, but it was
> > fairly scary. i could have lost everything.
> > 
> > hopefully someone knows someone good and legit who can help me make a
> > smooth transition.
> > 
> > also looking into linux user classes to learn basics that I am still
> > needing help with.
> > 
> > Any suggestions?
> > 
> > Thanks for your time!
> > 
> > Stoop
> > 415-678-8290
> > -- 
> > Ability is nothing, without availability. Anonymous
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 12:47:14 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:47:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Where can I get my computer transitioned?
In-Reply-To: <9a05ace50910111129t204e2a26m9d323f7c7209e8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9a05ace50910111129t204e2a26m9d323f7c7209e8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040910111247s545a758n9d52f731364d23e5@mail.gmail.com>

hi Stoop,

Jim Stockford already hit all of the highlights in migrating your machine to
Linux, so I won't repeat it here.  I do like to help people do what you are
requesting, so please ping me at this email address if you are not getting
help.  I will also be happy to go with you to Noisebridge, which is a great
place to get all of this work done, since they have all of the equipment,
etc. over there.
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From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 11 13:06:10 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:06:10 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion group wednesday evenings from 6 to 8 PM
	at	noisebridge
Message-ID: <1255291570.6428.136.camel@jim-laptop>


   linux discussion group wednesday evenings from 
6 PM to 8 PM at noisebridge, 2169 mission street 
near 18th. 





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Oct 11 13:45:50 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 13:45:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion group wednesday evenings from 6 to 8 PM
	at noisebridge
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040910111323r726912ddy84c1636a94f567aa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255291570.6428.136.camel@jim-laptop>
	<4b5781040910111323r726912ddy84c1636a94f567aa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040910111345p79411a5ava9f7e650e58e9faf@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 1:06 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   linux discussion group wednesday evenings from
> 6 PM to 8 PM at noisebridge, 2169 mission street
> near 18th.
>
>
For those of you who have not been to Noisebridge, you really should come.
It is really a Linux-lover's paradise. There are lots n lots of really cool
Linux sys admins who hang out there.  I would actually like to see us
eventually move our SF-LUG meetings to Noisebridge, because there is so much
goodness to be had there at Noisebrige

Noisebridge is like a cafe where you never have to buy anything.  There is
free wifi, comfy couches, lots of work tables equipped with tools for
working on computers, lots of knowledgeable Linux hackers, you name it.

I have been frustrated with the cafes where SF-LUG has been held, which is
one reason that I haven't come to all that many meetings.  There is often
not enough power out-lets, the chairs and tables are not all that conducive
to discussion, and the music piped in is a distraction.  I am also a little
bit hard of hearing, and so I often miss lots of what people with soft
voices have to say in such environments.  Noisebridge is very busy, with
lots of people doing lots of things, but there is rarely the kind of
distractions that erode the value of SF-LUG meetings for me at cafes.  Your
mileage may vary, of course, but I think that if more people came to
Noisebridge, you would see how awesome it really is.

c u
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From opietro at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 12 12:24:53 2009
From: opietro at yahoo.com (Owen Pietrokowsky)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Help with Thinkpad upgrade
Message-ID: <867159.85382.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I'd like to upgrade an IBM ThinkPad 2611 laptop (1400?). It's ten years old and recently donated. The memory is minimal. Here are the specs:
?
?? 366Mz Pentium 2 (Celeron)
?? 64 Mb RAM
?? 4.6 Gb hard drive
?? Missing: system diskette for bootup (windows)

Any donations (RAM, faster processor, etc.), assistance, or advice would be much appreciated. I've never upgraded a laptop before. Thanks.


Owen


??? 



      
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From jasonbain at gmail.com  Tue Oct 13 12:59:32 2009
From: jasonbain at gmail.com (Jason Bain)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:59:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 45, Issue 9
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1255460402.26261.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1255460402.26261.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <64BEE04C-7403-486D-8D34-F66E50989F04@gmail.com>

Owen,

you can get the exact specs for your machine (look on the bottom of  
the laptop for the exact type & model) here:

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/product.do?brandind=10&familyind=50135&machineind=61946&operatingsystemind=49979&template=%2Fproductselection%2Flandingpages%2FproductInformationLandingPage.vm&validate=true

I am not sure if they still make the ram (too old) and hard was  
proportiary.  I have installed xUbuntu on older machines with great  
success.  Let me know the exact specs and we can go form there.    I'd  
be happy to help freshen it up.

cheers,
jason

On Oct 13, 2009, at 12:00 PM, sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com wrote:

> Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to
> 	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Help with Thinkpad upgrade (Owen Pietrokowsky)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:24:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Owen Pietrokowsky <opietro at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] Help with Thinkpad upgrade
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <867159.85382.qm at web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I'd like to upgrade an IBM ThinkPad 2611 laptop (1400?). It's ten  
> years old and recently donated. The memory is minimal. Here are the  
> specs:
> ?
> ?? 366Mz Pentium 2 (Celeron)
> ?? 64 Mb RAM
> ?? 4.6 Gb hard drive
> ?? Missing: system diskette for bootup (windows)
>
> Any donations (RAM, faster processor, etc.), assistance, or advice  
> would be much appreciated. I've never upgraded a laptop before.  
> Thanks.
>
>
> Owen
>
>
> ???
>
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 45, Issue 9
> *************************************




From grantbow at gmail.com  Tue Oct 13 13:20:40 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:20:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Help with Thinkpad upgrade
In-Reply-To: <867159.85382.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <867159.85382.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0910131320m759a8df3h2d136d4d6a3d49b2@mail.gmail.com>

While running Linux on just about anything might be possible, I
suggest you might not want to spend your time with a system that
performs relatively poorly.  Laptop hardware can be pretty specialized
when trying to upgrade.

I bought a laptop (ThinkPad T42, 1.7GHz Pentium M, 512 MB RAM, 40 GB
disk) through eBay for $187 including shipping that runs great and is
far more useful to me than an older laptop.? It's worth considering
depending on your needs and budget.

Grant Bowman
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam


On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Owen Pietrokowsky <opietro at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I'd like to upgrade an IBM ThinkPad 2611 laptop (1400?). It's ten years old and recently donated. The memory is minimal. Here are the specs:
>
> ?? 366Mz Pentium 2 (Celeron)
> ?? 64 Mb RAM
> ?? 4.6 Gb hard drive
> ?? Missing: system diskette for bootup (windows)
>
> Any donations (RAM, faster processor, etc.), assistance, or advice would be much appreciated. I've never upgraded a laptop before. Thanks.
>
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From jim at well.com  Wed Oct 14 12:24:01 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:24:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion at noisebridge 6 PM to 8 PM
Message-ID: <1255548241.6767.1.camel@jim-laptop>


join the linux discussion group at noisebridge 
tonight and (at least for a while) every wednesday 
evening from 6 PM to 8 PM. noisebridge is at 2169 
mission (near 18th street) on the third floor. 





From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 14 13:40:20 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:40:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion at noisebridge 6 PM to 8 PM
In-Reply-To: <1255548241.6767.1.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1255548241.6767.1.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4AD63734.4090503@gmail.com>

i'm there in spirit!

(but teaching at the crucible in reality)

jim wrote:
> join the linux discussion group at noisebridge 
> tonight and (at least for a while) every wednesday 
> evening from 6 PM to 8 PM. noisebridge is at 2169 
> mission (near 18th street) on the third floor. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Wed Oct 14 17:50:57 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:50:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Next incarnation of XO at OLPC-SF this Saturday...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70910141750q5ec3d020h77ae01bf3382e9b0@mail.gmail.com>

In addition to other planned presentations and activities, we will
also have a XO 1.5 B2 unit (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_1.5_B2) at
the meeting this Saturday (Oct 17, 2009). We'll try to have the
machines open in a side-by-side comparison for those who like to see
the inner workings.

Meeting details are posted at http://tinyurl.com/olpcsf

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From bill at wards.net  Thu Oct 15 12:00:05 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:00:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 10/22/2009
Message-ID: <E1MyVYT-0006Ov-Fe@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:

   +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |Date:    |Thursday, October 22, 2009                                    |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |Time:    |6:00 - 8:00 PM                                                |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |         |Bayshore Technology Park                                      |
   |Location:|1300 Island Drive                                             |
   |         |Redwood City, CA 94065                                        |
   |         |Suite 106 - Training Room                                     |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |RSVP:    |Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=152593273963  |
   |         |or mail rsvp at penlug.org                                       |
   +------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Agenda:

     * 6:00 PM Free pizza arrives
     * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes
     * 6:30 PM Presentation begins
     * 8:00 PM Meeting ends

  Amazon EC2 Cloud Computing and Application Design

     * Introduction to Cloud Computing Architecture
     * Overview of Amazon EC2
     * EC2 Cloud Application Design and Best Practices

          * Ensuring robustness and scalability on demand
          * Ensuring data privacy, storage persistence, and reliable DBMS
            backup

     * Managing EC2 cloud application infrastructures
     * Creating a cloud application system development life cycle

  Jorge Noa, CTO of HyperStratus

   Jorge has held engineering management and system architect positions at
   many Silicon Valley-based companies. He has extensive experience designing
   and managing large mission critical web-based computing environments. In
   the last year he has focused on issues in cloud application design and
   best practices. Prior to HyperStratus, he was most recently CIO of TraxRx,
   a software company in the emerging field of RFID based marketing and sales
   analysis of pharmaceutical drugs. Previously he designed networking and
   database software for Oracle, Ingres, and Informix Software were he was
   Communications Architect designing distributed databases and client/server
   product offerings. He also served as Chief Architect for PayDirect, a
   Yahoo! equivalent of PayPal, and Timogen Systems, a workflow software
   company offering supply chain optimization products. Earlier in his
   career, he served as a software engineer for NASA and Bell Labs, focusing
   on Unix kernel development and inter-system connectivity.

RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
      http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Oct 16 12:51:59 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 12:51:59 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] reminder, Linux school open house tomorrow, Saturday,
	Oct 17
Message-ID: <4b5781040910161251o14f68427ub83e198ef0ae2870@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

There will be an open house of one of the Linux-powered public schools in
San Francisco's Western Addition tomorrow, Saturday, October 17, from noon
to 3 pm.  If SF-LUGers are interested in refurbishing Linux machines for
schools, this is one of the schools that will be receiving the machines.

You will be able to come and see our Linux LDAP lab and find out about how
we (Partimus.org) are doing Linux out-reach to staff, students, and the
students' parents to increase the visibility of Linux in this community.  If
you like messing with Linux computers (either software or hardware) or if
you are interested in helping maintain our server(s), we would be glad to
show you what we are doing.

Please call Christian Einfeldt when you arrive at 415-351-1300, so that
someone can let you into the school.

The school is located a the corner of Turk and Pierce streets in San
Francisco.  There is free parking for about 20 cars, but we encourage people
to take public transit.  The entrance to the parking lot is is on the north
side of Golden Gate, about 50 yards from Pierce Street, between Scott and
Pierce.  Golden Gate is a one-way street between Scott and Pierce, and so
you will need to approach the school from Golden Gate and Scott Street.  The
campus is large and confusing and there are two buildings, so you won't be
able to find your way by yourself, and the school is behind locked gates
24/7, so you will need to call Christian Einfeldt when you arrive to get in.

The school is served by bus stops at Pierce and Eddy (the 31 Balboa) and at
McAllister and Pierce (the 5 Fulton).   The 38 Geary bus has near-by stops
at Fillmore & Geary and at Scott and Geary, and the 24 Divisadero is two
blocks away, as is the 22 Fillmore.

We are not publishing the name of the school so as to avoid phone calls to
the school, so if you google the school, please don't call the school.  This
out-reach is a project of Partimus.org, a non-profit dedicated to bringing
Free Open Source Software to public schools.
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From jim at well.com  Sat Oct 17 10:34:57 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:34:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets this monday, 20091019,
	at cafe enchante from 6 to 8 PM
Message-ID: <1255800897.6503.7.camel@jim-laptop>


sf-lug meets this monday, 20091019, at the cafe enchante 
on geary blvd at 26th ave in san francisco from 6 PM to 
8 PM or so. 





From jim at well.com  Sat Oct 17 19:24:06 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:24:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [Job Posting - Lustre Engineer]
Message-ID: <1255832646.6503.32.camel@jim-laptop>



Terms: Fulltime Perm
Pay: 130k-150k 
Location: South Bay
Schedule: Need to Hire ASAP

Job Description:
Our filesystem group is looking for an engineer with experience in the
Lustre filesystem. We have several high performance hardware platforms
that require development work in Lustre to be able to take full
advantage of that performance. This engineer's primary role will be to
enhance, support and help stabilize Lustre for that hardware.

Job Requirements:
The applicant should have 5+ years of experience with Lustre filesystem
code and familiarity with the Linux kernel as well as the ability to
work with a team and with the Linux and Lustre community. Experience
with high performance storage systems is desired. Candidate must be a US
Citizen.

Blake Haggerty
View Blake Haggerty [LION] blake.haggerty at sapphire.com's profile on
LinkedIn
Permanent Placement Specialist
Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
27 Maiden Lane
San Francisco, CA 94108
(p) (415) 788-8488
(f) (415) 788-2592
www.sapphirena.com





From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Oct 17 23:15:13 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:15:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday 18th 12N-3P PDST Global Linux Mtg - BerkeleyTIP -
	for forwarding
Message-ID: <1255846513.27939.1340646937@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Join the global Free SW HW & Culture meeting online via VOIP & IRC. 
Sunday Oct 18, 12N-3P Pacific Daylight Savings Time (UTC-8),
 3P-6P Eastern, (7P-10P UTC?)
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
Or, come to the UCBerkeley Free Speech Cafe.

Discuss the videos, work on your own projects & share them with others,
& help work on the group projects.

Get a VOIP headset, & join the #berkeleytip channel on irc.freenode.net
We'll help you install VOIP client SW, & join the global meeting.

Join with the meeting from your home via VOIP,
or create a local meeting at your local college wifi cafe.

http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule

I finally got some posters up around campus. :)


=====  Talk/Video October: Open Source-and-Mac Other OSs
http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/OpenSource-and-Mac-Alternatives-to-Windows-7-649233/
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos


=====  Some Topics for discussion:
How get better WiFi at FSC - talk to UCB net services?
FreeSwitch install on UCB box
KUbuntu 9.10 out this month
Plan for a UCB installfest - leaders, helpers, announcements
Flyers post throughout campus beginning November?
SSL & OpenVPN on UCB box

=====
Join the mailing lists & say hi, tell us what you are interested in.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

You are invited to forward this message anywhere it would be welcomed.
:)



From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Sun Oct 18 18:43:55 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:43:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] CAS School Lab
Message-ID: <FE9E160F-A491-4C5A-AB40-7F2EE16BD5E8@compbizsolutions.com>

To all those who have helped with Christian and the CAS Computer Lab,  
well done. It was obvious just in my brief visit with the techs,  
parents and teachers present during last Saturday's Open House that  
the school and students have greatly benefited from the hard work of  
the volunteers.

To those who I spoke with about the Benicia LTSP project, you were  
absolutely right. We didn't (couldn't) run the graphical desktop on  
386 machines; I'm not sure where I got that from, maybe I'm just sleep  
deprived. We *did* try to use a couple 486 systems however they just  
didn't have the memory or graphics capabilities to be useful. The  
oldest systems we had functioning were white-box PIII 500Mhz   
computers with 256MB RAM which we added 3Com BOOTROM NICs. Sorry for  
the confusion.

--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric








From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Oct 19 08:38:41 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:38:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-10-20 Understanding the Power of
	Hybrid	Hosting: Dedicated Plus Clouds by Paul Lancaster of
	GoGrid/ServePath
Message-ID: <20091019083841.15036905so46kagw@webmail.rawbw.com>

Reminder TOMORROW!:
BALUG: Tu 2009-10-20 Understanding the Power of Hybrid Hosting:
Dedicated Plus Clouds by Paul Lancaster of GoGrid/ServePath

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-10-20

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2009-10-20 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present:

Understanding the Power of Hybrid Hosting: Dedicated Plus Clouds by
Paul Lancaster of GoGrid[1]/ServePath[2]

Cloud Computing isn't for everyone, neither is leasing dedicated server
environments. However, when you combine the two, the end result is a
hosting solution that will make your business successful. We call it
Hybrid Hosting. Capitalizing on the dynamic, scalability of GoGrid's
Cloud Hosting and the robust, high I/O throughput of dedicated
infrastructure, Hybrid Hosting is a way to manage complex,
high-availability infrastructures that meet demand, performance and
cost concerns.

Paul Lancaster is one of the founding employees of ServePath/GoGrid and
leads Business Development. Paul has been in the Internet industry for
the past 15 years working for software and services companies in
technical and business roles. Paul enjoys playing guitar when he is not
at his keyboard or spending time with his 6 year old daughter.

GoGrid[1]: Blog[3] Wiki[4] Twitter[5]

1. http://www.gogrid.com/
2. http://www.servepath.com/
3. http://blog.gogrid.com/
4. http://wiki.gogrid.com/
5. http://twitter.com/gogrid

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

             rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

             6:30pm
             Tuesday, October 20th, 2009 2009-10-20

             Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
             731 Grant Ave.
             San Francisco, CA 94108
             Easy PARKING:
             Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

http://www.balug.org/




From jim at well.com  Mon Oct 19 23:21:05 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:21:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Immediate need for OLPC XO support in Irvine California
Message-ID: <1256019665.6481.28.camel@jim-laptop>



   We need to find someone who is familiar with the 
OLPC XO computer (the little green give-one, get-one) 
who is able to support a reporter, Sosan Armon, at 
Ariana Afghanistan T-V, which broadcasts out of Irvine.  
   Sosan is creating a show about the OLPC XO computer 
to be shown in Afghanistan and around the world. 
   Because the XO is not self-explanatory to a grownup, 
Sosan needs some help to understand how to get it up 
and running quickly, as well as how a kid would use it. 
   We are trying to get her supported in time for her 
show to mention the Afghan Reconstruction Summit, which 
will occur on November 1, 2009 in Marin County. 
   The XO she'll be using has materials localized in 
Dari and in Pashto. 
   Get in touch with jim at well dot com. 





From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 20 09:31:55 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:31:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] eula related refund
Message-ID: <910202.44823.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Discussions about the refund for NOT using preinstalled M$ OS were again renewed. Participants and others on the list may be interested in learning that I just now got notification of just such a refund.
Here is part of the notification:

Greetings from Amazon.com.

We're writing to let you know we processed your refund of $79.99 for your
Order xxx-xxxxxxx-xxxxxxx.

This refund is for the following item(s):

    Item: ASUS Eee PC 1005HA-PU1X-BK 10.1-Inch Black Netbook - 10.5 Hour
Battery Life
    Quantity: 1
    ASIN: B002DYIXMI
    Reason for refund: Customer return

    Here's a the breakdown of your refund for this item:

        Item Refund: $79.99

We'll apply your refund to the following payment method(s):

Good luck to Bill Hill and any others who are still waiting. Keep at it. 
I believe you will succeed.

The following might help:
here it is-
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/eula/home.mspx
The following is very near the beginning (towards the end of the second
paragraph.)
IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE; YOU MAY
RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND
The few words that follow are a bit worry some but my strategy would be to
not mention them.

..it worked for me.

cheers,
alex



      



From algoldor at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 20 21:12:03 2009
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:12:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] donations Cuba - build up of open source based multimedia
	center
Message-ID: <301367.20572.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

    
Hello,
My name is Frantisek Apfelbeck and I am coordinating a build up of multimedia 
center in Placetas, Cuba. The center is a non-political activity designed to 
support sustainable development in the area. Operating system is linux, 
distribution Ubuntu. I am asking for donations of laptops (weight restrictions 
for transportation and many advantages) with ?Pentium 4? processors, data 
projector, multifunctional printer, camcorder, memory sticks, memory card readers, 
multifunctional charger and of course money donations are always appreciated. 
All of the donators are going to be recognized if not wished otherwise. 
For more information about the project and me please see 
www.frantisekapfelbeck.org

Thank you very much for your help,

Sincerely,

Frantisek Apfelbeck, member of Galway Linux Group


      



From jim at well.com  Tue Oct 20 22:09:07 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:09:07 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] donations Cuba - build up of open source
	based	multimedia center
In-Reply-To: <301367.20572.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <301367.20572.qm@web111516.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1256101747.6478.12.camel@jim-laptop>


   i know frantisek and his project to build up 
a linux-based multimedia lab in cuba. he's legit, 
in my view. i'm donating some equipment and some 
cash, and i hope he succeeds. 
   he's completely honest and hard-working. if 
you have equipment you can donate, i'm willing 
to drive and come get it and take it to him. 
jim 




On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 21:12 -0700, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
> Hello,
> My name is Frantisek Apfelbeck and I am coordinating a build up of multimedia 
> center in Placetas, Cuba. The center is a non-political activity designed to 
> support sustainable development in the area. Operating system is linux, 
> distribution Ubuntu. I am asking for donations of laptops (weight restrictions 
> for transportation and many advantages) with ?Pentium 4? processors, data 
> projector, multifunctional printer, camcorder, memory sticks, memory card readers, 
> multifunctional charger and of course money donations are always appreciated. 
> All of the donators are going to be recognized if not wished otherwise. 
> For more information about the project and me please see 
> www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
> 
> Thank you very much for your help,
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Frantisek Apfelbeck, member of Galway Linux Group
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Wed Oct 21 07:34:49 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:34:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24,
	2009: Django Development
Message-ID: <1256135689.6478.79.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday September 24, 2009: Django Development 


Tonight's talk is 
* Django Development 

Richard Kiss -- Django templating
Eddy Mulyono -- django.contrib.databrowse
Glen Jarvis -- South (Django database migration tool)
Simeon Franklin -- Django best practices and commonly used, helpful apps


Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: included in Richard Kiss' introduction 

LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 8:45 PM ................

Title: Django Development 
Richard Kiss --    Django templating
Eddy Mulyono --    Django.contrib.databrowse
Glen Jarvis --     South (Django database migration tool)
Simeon Franklin -- Django best practices and commonly used, helpful apps


..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics that 
the announcers are interested in. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually 
on the announcements and other topics of interest.





From jim at well.com  Wed Oct 21 07:51:25 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:51:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday October 22,
	2009: Django Development
Message-ID: <1256136685.6478.131.camel@jim-laptop>

Apologies: BayPIGgies meets this Thursday, October 22, 2009 




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Wed Oct 21 10:29:44 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:29:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday October 22,
	2009: Django 	Development
In-Reply-To: <1256136685.6478.131.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256136685.6478.131.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70910211029t78d9ba56vaf9b10e1db1aab79@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:51 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> Apologies: BayPIGgies meets this Thursday, October 22, 2009
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

Why the apology?

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From jim at well.com  Wed Oct 21 22:55:54 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:55:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday October 22,
	2009: Django 	Development
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70910211029t78d9ba56vaf9b10e1db1aab79@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1256136685.6478.131.camel@jim-laptop>
	<5fb387c70910211029t78d9ba56vaf9b10e1db1aab79@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256190954.6491.1.camel@jim-laptop>


   i'd sent an earlier message with all the details 
but for september 24--i.e. i hadn't fully revised 
the old message for the new date, so i had to send 
out new messages for the corrected date as a result 
of my sloppiness. 


On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 10:29 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:51 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> > Apologies: BayPIGgies meets this Thursday, October 22, 2009
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> 
> Why the apology?
> 
> Sameer




From algoldor at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 22 12:13:45 2009
From: algoldor at yahoo.com (Frantisek Apfelbeck)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] one more computer to go etc.
Message-ID: <698125.96343.qm@web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi All,

I have got three computers, multifunctional printer and few other things. I am still looking for one laptop or small desktop, data projector and financial support.

Thanks to everyone participating,

Frantisek



      



From jim at well.com  Thu Oct 22 12:27:37 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:27:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] one more computer to go etc.
In-Reply-To: <698125.96343.qm@web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <698125.96343.qm@web111505.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1256239657.6491.79.camel@jim-laptop>


hi, frantisek, 
   i've got a couple of router/switch/access point 
boxes for you and will be glad to chip in a little 
cash for other equipment or expenses. 
   if any sf-luggers want to contribute, respond: 
i'll be glad to drive to pick up whatever you have 
to donate. 
jim 


On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 12:13 -0700, Frantisek Apfelbeck wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I have got three computers, multifunctional printer and few other things. I am still looking for one laptop or small desktop, data projector and financial support.
> 
> Thanks to everyone participating,
> 
> Frantisek
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Fri Oct 23 09:12:42 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:12:42 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] how to wifi a dell inpiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04?
Message-ID: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>


   i'm trying to get wifi working on a new Dell 
inspiron 1545 with a broadcom chipset; OS is 
ununtu 9.04. seems a driver issue. (i can provide 
info later, when i'm with the computer.) 
   can anyone point me to a solution? i'm bored 
reading the same old google returns. it's a new 
install, so i can reinstall 9.10 if anyone thinks 
that would do the trick (after i get a 9.10 CD, 
of course). 
hopefully, 
jim 





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Oct 23 15:37:52 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:37:52 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] CAS School Lab
In-Reply-To: <FE9E160F-A491-4C5A-AB40-7F2EE16BD5E8@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <FE9E160F-A491-4C5A-AB40-7F2EE16BD5E8@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20091023223752.GZ21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paric (mparic at compbizsolutions.com):

> To those who I spoke with about the Benicia LTSP project, you were  
> absolutely right. We didn't (couldn't) run the graphical desktop on 386 
> machines; I'm not sure where I got that from, maybe I'm just sleep  
> deprived. We *did* try to use a couple 486 systems however they just  
> didn't have the memory or graphics capabilities to be useful. The oldest 
> systems we had functioning were white-box PIII 500Mhz  computers with 
> 256MB RAM which we added 3Com BOOTROM NICs. Sorry for the confusion.

That sounds about right.  Anything older is going to suffer a variety 
of problems including fragility.  You really don't need that kind of
hassle.




From jim at well.com  Sat Oct 24 11:49:30 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:49:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] wifi on dell: system stats
Message-ID: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>


   still no luck trying to get wifi working on a 
dell inspiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04 
   current fallback plan is to reinstall ubuntu 
9.10 and hope and see. 


Dell Inspiron 1545 Model PP41L
RAM 2.9GB 
Storage 156.8GB 

dmesg output shows 
intel CPU T4200 2GHz dual core 
agpgart-intel intel mobile intel GM45 ExpressChipset 
Broadcom BCM4315 Wireless Controller 5.10.91.9 

uname -a output shows 
kernel 2.6.28-15 
#52-Ubuntu SMP 9.04 

lsmod output shows nothing for networking 

lspci output shows 
Ethernet controller: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast rev 13 
Broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g rev 01 





From johnlowry at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 11:55:13 2009
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:55:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] wifi on dell: system stats
In-Reply-To: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4AE34D91.9040905@gmail.com>

http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43

The Broadcom card in the laptop has support in the kernel, it just needs
the binary firmware to be loaded. It has been a while since I have had
to deal with these cards, I avoid them like the plague, but they do work
with Linux.

jim wrote:
>    still no luck trying to get wifi working on a 
> dell inspiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04 
>    current fallback plan is to reinstall ubuntu 
> 9.10 and hope and see. 
> 
> 
> Dell Inspiron 1545 Model PP41L
> RAM 2.9GB 
> Storage 156.8GB 
> 
> dmesg output shows 
> intel CPU T4200 2GHz dual core 
> agpgart-intel intel mobile intel GM45 ExpressChipset 
> Broadcom BCM4315 Wireless Controller 5.10.91.9 
> 
> uname -a output shows 
> kernel 2.6.28-15 
> #52-Ubuntu SMP 9.04 
> 
> lsmod output shows nothing for networking 
> 
> lspci output shows 
> Ethernet controller: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast rev 13 
> Broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g rev 01 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From jim at well.com  Sat Oct 24 11:56:45 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:56:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] the lshw command
Message-ID: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>


$ man lshw 

   this "list hardware" command has a -X option 
that presents info via GUI if gui (x-windows) 
is on the system. 

   it's a nice, complete list of hardware stuff. 
i haven't noticed mention of this command in 
various lug lists, so i present my discovery 
hoping it helps. 





From jim at well.com  Sat Oct 24 12:27:29 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:27:29 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] wifi on dell: system stats
In-Reply-To: <4AE34D91.9040905@gmail.com>
References: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop> <4AE34D91.9040905@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256412449.21022.86.camel@jim-laptop>


   that's a good tip. 

   is all we have to do is find the firmware file (ha!) 
and copy it into 
/lib/firmware/ or /lib/firmware/2.6.28-15-generic/ 
or ...? 

   (on this box, /lib/firmware/ shows a lot of 
ipw* and iwlwifi* files.) 




On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 11:55 -0700, John Lowry wrote:
> http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43
> 
> The Broadcom card in the laptop has support in the kernel, it just needs
> the binary firmware to be loaded. It has been a while since I have had
> to deal with these cards, I avoid them like the plague, but they do work
> with Linux.
> 
> jim wrote:
> >    still no luck trying to get wifi working on a 
> > dell inspiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04 
> >    current fallback plan is to reinstall ubuntu 
> > 9.10 and hope and see. 
> > 
> > 
> > Dell Inspiron 1545 Model PP41L
> > RAM 2.9GB 
> > Storage 156.8GB 
> > 
> > dmesg output shows 
> > intel CPU T4200 2GHz dual core 
> > agpgart-intel intel mobile intel GM45 ExpressChipset 
> > Broadcom BCM4315 Wireless Controller 5.10.91.9 
> > 
> > uname -a output shows 
> > kernel 2.6.28-15 
> > #52-Ubuntu SMP 9.04 
> > 
> > lsmod output shows nothing for networking 
> > 
> > lspci output shows 
> > Ethernet controller: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast rev 13 
> > Broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g rev 01 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Sat Oct 24 13:02:00 2009
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:02:00 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] wifi on dell: system stats
In-Reply-To: <1256412449.21022.86.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>	
	<4AE34D91.9040905@gmail.com> <1256412449.21022.86.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4AE35D38.1090208@gmail.com>

I believe you have to use fw-cutter from a driver file for windows. It
will pull the firmware file for you. Then just copy the firmware to
/lib/firmware

jim wrote:
>    that's a good tip. 
> 
>    is all we have to do is find the firmware file (ha!) 
> and copy it into 
> /lib/firmware/ or /lib/firmware/2.6.28-15-generic/ 
> or ...? 
> 
>    (on this box, /lib/firmware/ shows a lot of 
> ipw* and iwlwifi* files.) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 11:55 -0700, John Lowry wrote:
>> http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43
>>
>> The Broadcom card in the laptop has support in the kernel, it just needs
>> the binary firmware to be loaded. It has been a while since I have had
>> to deal with these cards, I avoid them like the plague, but they do work
>> with Linux.
>>
>> jim wrote:
>>>    still no luck trying to get wifi working on a 
>>> dell inspiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04 
>>>    current fallback plan is to reinstall ubuntu 
>>> 9.10 and hope and see. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Dell Inspiron 1545 Model PP41L
>>> RAM 2.9GB 
>>> Storage 156.8GB 
>>>
>>> dmesg output shows 
>>> intel CPU T4200 2GHz dual core 
>>> agpgart-intel intel mobile intel GM45 ExpressChipset 
>>> Broadcom BCM4315 Wireless Controller 5.10.91.9 
>>>
>>> uname -a output shows 
>>> kernel 2.6.28-15 
>>> #52-Ubuntu SMP 9.04 
>>>
>>> lsmod output shows nothing for networking 
>>>
>>> lspci output shows 
>>> Ethernet controller: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast rev 13 
>>> Broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g rev 01 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
> 



From opietro at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 24 14:03:31 2009
From: opietro at yahoo.com (Owen Pietrokowsky)
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:03:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] advice on laptop upgrade
Message-ID: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Greetings,

I'm
getting a 5-yr-old laptop from a friend. A non-profit tech department
is refurbishing it, and I'm making a wish list of items I'd like.
Please advise me on these items and on specific model/type/size
recommendations. Anything you would add? Thanks. Here is the list:


Processor upgrade (I don't know what the current? micropr. is)
BIOS upgrade (I don't know what the current? version is) -???????????? 
??? necessary?
1G+ RAM
120+ HD
2G+ flash drive
Mid-end Laser or inkjet printer/fax/copier combo
2 speakers (internal?)
internal
 DVD/CD-RW drive
17"+ LCD monitor
external mouse
diagnostic diskette + manuals
internal wifi card or wifi modem (which is preferable?)
internal graphics card (type?)
Ethernet port (standard?)
Windows XP + Microsoft Office Suite
manuals for OS and apps
extra battery(type and hours?)
extra USB ports
laptop bag


Owen
opietro at yahoo.com



Owen Pietrokowsky
Editor, writer 
Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
opietro at yahoo.com

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/owenpietrokowsky





      
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From nbs at sonic.net  Sun Oct 25 12:00:28 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:00:28 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] the lshw command
In-Reply-To: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091025190028.GA20701@sonic.net>

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:56:45AM -0700, jim wrote:
> 
> $ man lshw 
> 
>    this "list hardware" command has a -X option 
> that presents info via GUI if gui (x-windows) 
> is on the system. 

Wow, had never heard of it! :) Thanks,

-bill!



From jim at well.com  Sun Oct 25 12:41:57 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:41:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the lshw command
In-Reply-To: <20091025190028.GA20701@sonic.net>
References: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091025190028.GA20701@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <1256499717.21022.134.camel@jim-laptop>


apparently it's included with ubuntu but 
not with some fedora releases. 


On Sun, 2009-10-25 at 12:00 -0700, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 11:56:45AM -0700, jim wrote:
> > 
> > $ man lshw 
> > 
> >    this "list hardware" command has a -X option 
> > that presents info via GUI if gui (x-windows) 
> > is on the system. 
> 
> Wow, had never heard of it! :) Thanks,
> 
> -bill!
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 25 12:47:37 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 12:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] the lshw command
In-Reply-To: <20091025190028.GA20701@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <964192.26989.qm@web110614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

To make this work you must first of course install the lshw-gtk package.



> > $ man lshw 
> > 
> >? ? this "list hardware" command has a -X
> option 
> > that presents info via GUI if gui (x-windows) 
> > is on the system. 
> _______________________


      



From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 25 21:02:31 2009
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:02:31 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] how to wifi a dell inpiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04?
In-Reply-To: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <dc4b6aae0910252102s5b7f29a6k8a8c81e9624b362@mail.gmail.com>

> My last few wireless installs on Ubuntu9.04 were easily accomplished by
> 1)avoiding the bootstrapping issue and initially using a cable to get onto
> the internet and 2)install the b43_fwcutter package, which will offer to
> download the appropriate Broadcom driver.  If for some reason the download
> offer does not occur, then you may be able to deinstall the package and
> reinstall.

Disconnect the ethernet cable.  Once the b43_fwcutter package is installed,
the NetworkManager should automatically pick up whatever is needed, and you
should see the available wireless access points. Click on the one you want,
enter the key, and you should be connected.  A reboot may be necessary to
display all access points, but you may right click on the networkmanager
icon and under wireless, add a connection and enter the ap name and key.
Note, NetworkManager does everything but enter the key for you.  If you look
at the old manual connection info in /etc/networking/interfaces, it will
show nothing of interest.
P.S. I'm back in SF and hope to show up at some meetings.
Good Luck.
Ken

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From darose at darose.net  Mon Oct 26 08:31:04 2009
From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:31:04 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] wifi on dell: system stats
In-Reply-To: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256410170.21022.51.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4AE5C0B8.5050805@darose.net>

I have a BCM4312 card, and I've found the modules that come with the 
kernel don't work with it, and so I have to use their proprietary driver 
instead:

http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php

Don't know if your Broadcom card works the same.

HTH,

DR

On 10/24/2009 02:49 PM, jim wrote:
>    still no luck trying to get wifi working on a 
> dell inspiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04 
>    current fallback plan is to reinstall ubuntu 
> 9.10 and hope and see. 
> 
> 
> Dell Inspiron 1545 Model PP41L
> RAM 2.9GB 
> Storage 156.8GB 
> 
> dmesg output shows 
> intel CPU T4200 2GHz dual core 
> agpgart-intel intel mobile intel GM45 ExpressChipset 
> Broadcom BCM4315 Wireless Controller 5.10.91.9 
> 
> uname -a output shows 
> kernel 2.6.28-15 
> #52-Ubuntu SMP 9.04 
> 
> lsmod output shows nothing for networking 
> 
> lspci output shows 
> Ethernet controller: Marvell 88E8040 PCI-E Fast rev 13 
> Broadcom BCM4312 802.11b/g rev 01 




From jim at well.com  Mon Oct 26 08:55:35 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:55:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to wifi a dell inpiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04?
In-Reply-To: <dc4b6aae0910252102s5b7f29a6k8a8c81e9624b362@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>
	<dc4b6aae0910252102s5b7f29a6k8a8c81e9624b362@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1256572535.4313.0.camel@jim-laptop>



cool! thanks lots! 


On Mon, 2009-10-26 at 00:02 -0400, Ken Shaffer wrote:
> 
>         My last few wireless installs on Ubuntu9.04 were easily
>         accomplished by 1)avoiding the bootstrapping issue and
>         initially using a cable to get onto the internet and 2)install
>         the b43_fwcutter package, which will offer to download the
>         appropriate Broadcom driver.  If for some reason the download
>         offer does not occur, then you may be able to deinstall the
>         package and reinstall.
> Disconnect the ethernet cable.  Once the b43_fwcutter package is
> installed, the NetworkManager should automatically pick up whatever is
> needed, and you should see the available wireless access points. Click
> on the one you want, enter the key, and you should be connected.  A
> reboot may be necessary to display all access points, but you may
> right click on the networkmanager icon and under wireless, add a
> connection and enter the ap name and key.  Note, NetworkManager does
> everything but enter the key for you.  If you look at the old manual
> connection info in /etc/networking/interfaces, it will show nothing of
> interest.
> P.S. I'm back in SF and hope to show up at some meetings.
> Good Luck.
> Ken 
> 
>         
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         sf-lug mailing list
>         sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>         http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From ttrafford at gmail.com  Mon Oct 26 14:26:20 2009
From: ttrafford at gmail.com (Tyler Trafford)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:26:20 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] how to wifi a dell inpiron 1545 running ubuntu 9.04?
In-Reply-To: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256314362.6501.3.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091026212620.GA21137@oasis.local>

jim wrote:

>    i'm trying to get wifi working on a new Dell 
> inspiron 1545 with a broadcom chipset; OS is 
> ununtu 9.04. seems a driver issue. (i can provide 
> info later, when i'm with the computer.) 
>    can anyone point me to a solution? i'm bored 
> reading the same old google returns. it's a new 
> install, so i can reinstall 9.10 if anyone thinks 
> that would do the trick (after i get a 9.10 CD, 
> of course). 
> hopefully, 

I would consider replacing the Broadcom MiniPCI card, if it were me.
-- 
Tyler Trafford



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Oct 26 14:29:39 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:29:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] advice on laptop upgrade
In-Reply-To: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <974321.49480.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091026212938.GO21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Owen Pietrokowsky (opietro at yahoo.com):

> I'm getting a 5-yr-old laptop from a friend. 

Make and model?

> A non-profit tech department is refurbishing it, and I'm making a wish
> list of items I'd like.  Please advise me on these items and on
> specific model/type/size recommendations. 

You're asking for advice on hardware upgrades / additions for Linux use,
right?  Are you planning to run any particular type of applications 
on it, by the way?

(Like, if you were doing molecular modeling on said laptop, there might 
be different hardware needs relative to your just running the usual 
mix of productivity stuff.)





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Oct 26 16:35:25 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:35:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] the lshw command
In-Reply-To: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1256410605.21022.56.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091026233525.GP21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    this "list hardware" command has a -X option 
> that presents info via GUI if gui (x-windows) 
> is on the system. 

...and if package lshw-gtk is present.[1]

>    it's a nice, complete list of hardware stuff. 

It pulls from the same system data that primary tools lspci and lsusb
use, so the list is extensive, but I wouldn't call it complete. 
If you want really reliable, complete information on the hardware, your
best bet is still "dmesg | less", lspci, "less /proc/cpuinfo", "less
/proc/meminfo", lsusb, and maybe dmidecode.  For one thing, those will
tend to be present even on systems where lshw isn't.

But there's another thing:  I'm not really sure I like the fact that,
under Motherboard / CPU, it doesn't tell me what the CPU flags are, and
instead gives its _interpretation_ of those flags.

For example, it reports that CPU capabilities include "virtual mode
extensions" and "HyperThreading".  But what does that really mean?

o  If I'm intending to do full virtualisation under VMware or such, I need
   to know whether the CPU does required hardware support for that VM mode,
   which means the CPU's instruction set must include either VMX (Intel) or 
   SVM (AMD) extensions.  In Linux, those are shown by /proc/cpuinfo's
   "flags" line including either "vmx" or "svn".

o  In Linux, hyperthreading works if /proc/cpuinfo's "flags" line includes
   "ht" (which indicates the capability) and the count of physical
   and logical CPUs in /proc/cpuinfo differs.

I trust the raw data to tell me what's going on, but think it unwise to
trust some third-party utility's interpretation in place of that data.


[1] On distros where the GTK support glue is packaged separately.



From eric at ericwalstad.com  Tue Oct 27 21:39:14 2009
From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:39:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] USB stick help, please...
Message-ID: <c436fcd20910272139u11944bd9lb4bf55bc7f85b195@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Anyone know how to get linux to recognize a USB stick without having
to unplug and replug after a reboot?

I've been tinkering with Open-WRT[0] running on an Asus WL-500G
Premium 2 router.  I have it running (actually x-wrt[1]), I've
soldered[2] in my Tweet-a-watt[3] receiver, I have my Python installed
on a USB stick and I can make it all work - yay!  Until the power goes
out, that is.  Then the router reboots and the USB stick isn't
recognized until I manually unplug it and plug it back in.  Then I can
run the boot script that mounts the USB stick.

I've read a ton of pages, tried using USB2 (ehci) and then USB1(ohci).
 Everything I've read assumes that the system recognizes the USB stick
on boot.  But mine doesn't.  Oh, when I unplug and plug in the USB
stick, it shows up as:

/dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1

A search for that will show you some of the pages I've read.

I'm happy to share more details but I'm not sure which ones are relevant yet.

Thanks in advance,

Eric.
[0] http://openwrt.org/
[1] http://x-wrt.org/
[2] http://forums.adafruit.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=12660
[3] http://www.ladyada.net/make/tweetawatt/index.html



From jim at well.com  Wed Oct 28 12:13:35 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:13:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion at noisebridge this evening 6 to 8 PM
Message-ID: <1256757215.4313.59.camel@jim-laptop>


   linux discussion at noisebridge, 2169 mission 
near 18th, from 6 to 8 PM every wednesday evening. 
it's a good place to bring your machines. 




From gray.race at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 09:29:13 2009
From: gray.race at gmail.com (Taylor)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:29:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
Message-ID: <1cd826d0910290929v236ebb0cv66a28318734bd2ef@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

First time poster here. Working for the state I now have a few forced
vacations. A project that I've been meaning to get started on is setting up
an old PC as a HTPC device. I already have an external NAS to hook into it
for storage. What I'm looking to do is set it up as a streaming server for
UPnP devices in my home and possibly also access it from off-site. Any
Advice? Good how-to articles?  Software that works good in the ubuntu
realm?  I've used tversity(http://tversity.com/) in the past to accomplish
this on my local desktop but I'd like to go full open source for this
project.

In the future I might also look into cable capture. I know very little in
this area other than theoretically there are cable cards that enable this? I
use comcast so anyone who has advice here I'd be curious about as well.

Cheers,

Taylor
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Thu Oct 29 09:52:13 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 29 Oct 2009 12:52:13 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
Message-ID: <762969175.1256835013840.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver50>


I have built a few HTPCs Some with Ubuntu others with Windows.

 

I know what I look for in a HTPC but everyones different:     My advice would be don't use a "old pc" 

 

Things I want in a HTPC:

 

Whisper Quiet

HDCP Video Card

HDMI outputs

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Support

Lots of Storage

Relatively a fast processor and a Good Amount of Ram, for Video Encoding and De-Coding Quickly

A separate sound card (not on board) that handles at least 5.1 surround sound and has Digital output

 

Although I use Ubuntu on all my Home PCs I do not use it on my HTPC because of its lack of ability to play Blu-Ray. You can play Blu-Ray discs but you have to dump all the disc info (60 gigs) onto your harddrive and then encode the video properly to play it and then it MIGHT work. This process takes a long time unless your computer is blazing fast. So it would really hold up the use of my Netflix. Too much of a pain in the ass for me.

 

But if your going to just be using it to record/watch TV - Ubuntu should work just fine with MythTv.


Best Regards,


Blake Haggerty

 

 



 

-----Original Message-----
From:Taylor gray.race at gmail.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
Sent: Oct 29, 2009 09:30:40 AM
Subject: [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?

Hi Folks,

First time poster here. Working for the state I now have a few forced vacations. A project that I've been meaning to get started on is setting up an old PC as a HTPC device. I already have an external NAS to hook into it for storage. What I'm looking to do is set it up as a streaming server for UPnP devices in my home and possibly also access it from off-site. Any Advice? Good how-to articles?  Software that works good in the ubuntu realm?  I've used tversity(http://tversity.com/) in the past to accomplish this on my local desktop but I'd like to go full open source for this project. 

In the future I might also look into cable capture. I know very little in this area other than theoretically there are cable cards that enable this? I use comcast so anyone who has advice here I'd be curious about as well.

Cheers,

Taylor

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From jim at well.com  Thu Oct 29 11:22:17 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:22:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets this sunday, 20091101,
	at cafe enchante from 11 am to	1 pm
Message-ID: <1256840537.6664.9.camel@jim-laptop>


sf-lug meets this sunday, 20091101, at the 
cafe enchante on geary at 26th ave in san 
francisco from 11 AM to 1 PM (or so). 





From johnlowry at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 11:54:04 2009
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:54:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
In-Reply-To: <762969175.1256835013840.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver50>
References: <762969175.1256835013840.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver50>
Message-ID: <4AE9E4CC.7030305@gmail.com>



Blake Haggerty wrote:
> I have built a few HTPCs Some with Ubuntu others with Windows.
>  
> I know what I look for in a HTPC but everyones different:     My advice 
> would be don't use a "old pc"
I second that, if you are planning on doing anything with encoding or 
decoding on the fly you will want as "beefy" as you can get.
>  
> Things I want in a HTPC:
>  
> Whisper Quiet
Do not forget heat either, I had my old MythTV machine that ran way too 
hot for my AV cabinet. It was actually putting out so much heat that my 
PS3, also a hot running device, was having issues. I eventually got a 
better form factor cabinet for getting rid of heat and better heat sinks 
for my CPU. Lots of copper to try to keep the fans from needing to kick in.


>   But if your going to just be using it to record/watch TV - Ubuntu should 
> work just fine with MythTv.

So Hauppauge has a great product that you can use with either Cable or 
satellite TV that I go with now. It is an external USB device that takes 
  component video and converts for you. you still need a receiver from 
the cable or satellite people for it to work, but you can control your 
recording experience with it. MythTV supports it in SVN and as of 2.6.30 
the  mainline kernel has a driver for it as well.

http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

> 
> Best Regards,
> Blake Haggerty
> __ 
>  
> 
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:*Taylor gray.race at gmail.com
> *To:* "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
> *Sent:* Oct 29, 2009 09:30:40 AM
> *Subject:* [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
> 
> Hi Folks,
> 
> First time poster here. Working for the state I now have a few forced 
> vacations. A project that I've been meaning to get started on is setting 
> up an old PC as a HTPC device. I already have an external NAS to hook 
> into it for storage. What I'm looking to do is set it up as a streaming 
> server for UPnP devices in my home and possibly also access it from 
> off-site. 
MediaTomb, http://mediatomb.cc/, for DLNA streaming works pretty good 
for me. It takes a little tweeking to get it to work with certain devices.

For remote playback Ampache has been pretty good to me. I even have an 
app that will play it on my G1. http://ampache.org/


> In the future I might also look into cable capture. I know very little 
> in this area other than theoretically there are cable cards that enable 
> this? I use comcast so anyone who has advice here I'd be curious about 
> as well.
Again, I recommend the Hauppauge device I linked above, just because you 
are then not tied to one type of source for input. Also, more and more 
cable companies are encrypting their content over the wire and if you do 
not have a cable card capable device, non of which currently have linux 
support, you are SOL for that input. That being said if you want to do 
over there air or unencrypted cable you can use a card that supports it. 
  There is a lot of support in the Linux kernel for various cards, but 
you can choose to go with a vendor you KNOW supports linux.

http://www.pchdtv.com/



> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Taylor
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Oct 29 12:27:15 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 12:27:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
In-Reply-To: <4AE9E4CC.7030305@gmail.com>
References: <762969175.1256835013840.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver50>
	<4AE9E4CC.7030305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70910291227p7640fb12i615ad97bd3d71cae@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, John Lowry <johnlowry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Blake Haggerty wrote:
>>
>> I have built a few HTPCs Some with Ubuntu others with Windows.
>> ?I know what I look for in a HTPC but everyones different: ? ? My advice
>> would be don't use a "old pc"
>
> I second that, if you are planning on doing anything with encoding or
> decoding on the fly you will want as "beefy" as you can get.
>>
>> ?Things I want in a HTPC:
>> ?Whisper Quiet
>
> Do not forget heat either, I had my old MythTV machine that ran way too hot
> for my AV cabinet. It was actually putting out so much heat that my PS3,
> also a hot running device, was having issues. I eventually got a better form
> factor cabinet for getting rid of heat and better heat sinks for my CPU.
> Lots of copper to try to keep the fans from needing to kick in.
>

One way to deal with the heat issue is to use MythTV's
frontend-backend setup. The backend can sit in the garage or attic or
some favorite place where heat and noise aren't an issue and your
frontend machine (XBox classic?) can be in the AV cabinet and be nice
and quiet. Backend <-->Frontend over Wi-Fi can be a bit sputtery
(standard def TV, not for HD) but Ethernet is very reliable. Gigabit
Ethernet is terrific.

>
>> ?But if your going to just be using it to record/watch TV - Ubuntu should
>> work just fine with MythTv.
>

Ubuntu spin for MythTV  http://www.mythbuntu.org/

cheers,
Sameer (also working for the State of CA, also taking forced vacations :-))


> So Hauppauge has a great product that you can use with either Cable or
> satellite TV that I go with now. It is an external USB device that takes
> ?component video and converts for you. you still need a receiver from the
> cable or satellite people for it to work, but you can control your recording
> experience with it. MythTV supports it in SVN and as of 2.6.30 the ?mainline
> kernel has a driver for it as well.
>
> http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html
>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Blake Haggerty
>> __
>> ?-----Original Message-----
>> *From:*Taylor gray.race at gmail.com
>> *To:* "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
>> *Sent:* Oct 29, 2009 09:30:40 AM
>> *Subject:* [sf-lug] HTPC How-Tos advice?
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> First time poster here. Working for the state I now have a few forced
>> vacations. A project that I've been meaning to get started on is setting up
>> an old PC as a HTPC device. I already have an external NAS to hook into it
>> for storage. What I'm looking to do is set it up as a streaming server for
>> UPnP devices in my home and possibly also access it from off-site.
>
> MediaTomb, http://mediatomb.cc/, for DLNA streaming works pretty good for
> me. It takes a little tweeking to get it to work with certain devices.
>
> For remote playback Ampache has been pretty good to me. I even have an app
> that will play it on my G1. http://ampache.org/
>
>
>> In the future I might also look into cable capture. I know very little in
>> this area other than theoretically there are cable cards that enable this? I
>> use comcast so anyone who has advice here I'd be curious about as well.
>
> Again, I recommend the Hauppauge device I linked above, just because you are
> then not tied to one type of source for input. Also, more and more cable
> companies are encrypting their content over the wire and if you do not have
> a cable card capable device, non of which currently have linux support, you
> are SOL for that input. That being said if you want to do over there air or
> unencrypted cable you can use a card that supports it. ?There is a lot of
> support in the Linux kernel for various cards, but you can choose to go with
> a vendor you KNOW supports linux.
>
> http://www.pchdtv.com/
>
>
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Taylor
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From grantbow at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 16:15:47 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:15:47 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu 9.10 released
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0910291612m29d9e932pe86d7877053c6943@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091029142546.GB1674@dario.dodds.net>
	<317e39f0910291612m29d9e932pe86d7877053c6943@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0910291615i11e5802duac34776ce11dae97@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the message I just sent to the Ubuntu California Team's mail
list with all the details.

Grant


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Grant Bowman <grantbow at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 4:12 PM
Subject: Fwd: Ubuntu 9.10 released
To: ubuntu-us-ca at lists.ubuntu.com


Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala was released!

This is for those that aren't subscribed to
http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce yet. ?For
those interested in getting on IRC #ubuntu-release-party is the place
to be other than #ubuntu-california of course. ?Our events are coming
up as scheduled here
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/KarmicRelease - don't
be shy about organizing more events, even if it's just a few friends.

I will definitely have the downloadable images with me on USB sticks
so please just ask if you have your computer or if you bring a USB
stick and want a copy.

Party on,

Grant Bowman
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ubuntu Announcements <noreply at ubuntu.com>
Date: Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 7:25 AM
Subject: Ubuntu 9.10 released
To: ubuntu-announce at lists.ubuntu.com


The Ubuntu team is pleased to announce Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop and Server
editions, Ubuntu 9.10 Server for Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud (UEC) and Amazon's
EC2, and Ubuntu Netbook Remix, continuing Ubuntu's tradition of integrating
the latest and greatest open source technologies into a high-quality,
easy-to-use Linux distribution.

Read more about the features of Ubuntu 9.10 in the following press releases:

?Desktop edition ? ?http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-910
?Server edition ? ? http://www.ubuntu.com/news/ubuntu-910-server-edition

Ubuntu 9.10 will be supported for 18 months on both desktops and servers.
Users requiring a longer support lifetime on the server may choose to
continue using Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, with security support until 2013, rather
than upgrading to 9.10.

Thanks to the efforts of the global translation community, Ubuntu is
available in 25 languages. ?For a list of supported languages and detailed
translation statistics for these and other languages, see:

?https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/ReleaseLanguages/9.10

Ubuntu 9.10 includes the first official release of Ubuntu Server images for
UEC and for Amazon's EC2, giving you everything you need for rapid
deployment of Ubuntu instances in a cloud computing environment. UEC images,
and information on running Ubuntu 9.10 on EC2, are available at:

?http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/releases/9.10/release

Ubuntu 9.10 is also the basis for new 9.10 releases of Kubuntu, Xubuntu,
Edubuntu, UbuntuStudio, and Mythbuntu:

? ? ? ?Kubuntu ? ? ?http://kubuntu.org/news/9.10-release
? ? ? ?Xubuntu ? ? ?http://xubuntu.org/news/9.10-release
? ? ? Edubuntu ? ? ?http://edubuntu.org/news/9.10-release
? ? ?Mythbuntu ? ? ?http://mythbuntu.org/9.10/release
?Ubuntu Studio ? ? ?https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/9.10release_notes

To Get Ubuntu 9.10
------------------

To download Ubuntu 9.10, or obtain CDs, visit:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu

Users of Ubuntu 9.04 will be offered an automatic upgrade to 9.10 via
Update Manager. ?For further information about upgrading, see:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading

As always, upgrades to the latest version of Ubuntu are entirely free of
charge.

We recommend that all users read the release notes, which document
caveats and workarounds for known issues. ?They are available at:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910

Find out what's new in this release with a graphical overview:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/releasenotes/910overview

If you have a question, or if you think you may have found a bug but
aren't sure, try asking on the #ubuntu IRC channel, on the Ubuntu Users
mailing list, or on the Ubuntu forums:

?#ubuntu on irc.freenode.net
?http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
?http://www.ubuntuforums.org/

Ubuntu 9.10 for ARM architectures
---------------------------------

Ubuntu 9.10 is available for the ARM architecture. ?Users should only
download these images if they have access to ARM chipsets or devices, as
they will not run on Intel-based machines.

Install instructions and images can be found here:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/arm

Helping Shape Ubuntu
--------------------

If you would like to help shape Ubuntu, take a look at the list of ways
you can participate at:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate/

About Ubuntu
------------

Ubuntu is a full-featured Linux distribution for desktops, laptops,
netbooks and servers, with a fast and easy install and regular releases. ?A
tightly-integrated selection of excellent applications is included, and an
incredible variety of add-on software is just a few clicks away.

Professional services, including support, are available from Canonical
Limited and hundreds of other companies around the world. ?For more
information about support, visit:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/support

More Information
----------------

You can find out more about Ubuntu and about this release on our website:

?http://www.ubuntu.com/

To sign up for future Ubuntu announcements, please subscribe to Ubuntu's
very low volume announcement list at:

?http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce

--
ubuntu-announce mailing list
ubuntu-announce at lists.ubuntu.com
Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-announce



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 18:26:34 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:26:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] big installfest tomorrow
Message-ID: <4b5781040910301826j88b8f6ev443c341efba94dcb@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Sorry for the last minute notice.  A high school student in the Berkeley is
going to be building Linux machines for Stormy Peters' KidsOnComputers.org
project in Mexico.  If anyone is bored tomorrow and would like to come
assemble machines for Linux labs in Mexico, this will be guaranteed to be a
good time.  Plus free pizza!!

As an added bonus, this project will be held at the Zareason shop in
Berkeley, the site where many of us have purchased pre-installed Linux
machines.  Come on over and see the west coast's best Linux-only retailed in
action!

Here is Kory's announcement:

####################

I need help frankensteining 30 desktops so I can send them to Mexico for a
Technology Transfer Program led by Stormy Peters of the GNOME Foundation.
Christian Einfeldt was nice enough to give us the hardware and last weekend
we moved them from SF to my family's computer shop in Berkeley. The project
is for my Eagle Scout. I was going to have a group of friends help that
helped my brother with his Eagle Project, but something came up at the last
minute and now I have only one helper on Saturday and possibly two on Sunday
(all from the Berkeley LUG). Are there any other LUG volunteers in the Bay
area who can help me out?

The first session is at 10 am on Saturday (and other on Sunday) at our shop
at 1647 Hopkins St, Berkeley, 94707. The BART is close & we can pick you up
from there if that makes it easier. We're also getting some great Gioia
pizza <http://gioiapizzeria.com/> and some good stuff from Hopkins
Bakery<http://hopkinsbakery.com/>for lunch. Stay however long you like
and if you can't come at 10, we have
other times that will work too. Let me know if you can help.

Thanks for helping out at the last minute. I really appreciate it.
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Sat Oct 31 15:01:22 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:01:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] REBUILD AFGHANISTAN SUMMIT 2009
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70910311221i34696e46h90cef55ac266cf04@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70910311221i34696e46h90cef55ac266cf04@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0910311501uc557264kb4aedf28527d62e5@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
Date: Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:21 PM
Subject: [OLPC-SF] REBUILD AFGHANISTAN SUMMIT 2009
To: OLPC SF <olpc-sf at lists.laptop.org>


Forwarding on behalf of Carol Ruth Silver.

==============================

You are invited to attend:

* * * * * * * * * *

? ?REBUILD AFGHANISTAN SUMMIT 2009

* * * * * * * * * *

Sunday, November 01, 2009 11:00 AM

Dominican University of California
Guzman Hall, 2nd floor
50 Acacia Avenue
San Rafael, CA

Registration begins at 11am. Program begins at 11:30 am, includes
speeches and two workshops ending at 4:30 with networking until 5:30
pm.

Admission is FREE!

Map & Directions at: ?http://www.afghansummit.org/index.html

Organizations wishing to participate should provide information to
afghanreconstruction at yahoo.com.

Keynote Speakers:

- Dr. Nahid Aziz ? Clinical Psychologist and Assoc. Prof., Argosy U.,
Washington, DC

- Norman Solomon ?Marin Author and Executive Director, Institute for
Public Accuracy

Both speakers will address the role of the local community in the
future of Afghanistan.

Join concerned citizens and members of non-profit organizations for
real conversations and some solutions to improving the lives of people
in Afghanistan.

Come hear the speakers, meet the participating organizations who will
have information, photos and opportunities to get involved at their
booths.
Try out the laptop computer used in the 'One Laptop Per
Child-Afghanistan' program!

There will be time for networking, workshops (on funding for projects,
education, mental health issues, art and archeology preservation in
Afghanistan and more), Afghan handicrafts for sale and refreshments.

For the summit schedule for the day, speaker Bios, links to the
participating organizations and all details, visit the Rebuild
Afghanistan Summit 2009 website at: www.afghansummit.org

To RSVP (with only your name and e-mail address) go to
http://rebuildafghanistansummit2009.eventbrite.com and click on
'Register'.

VOLUNTEERS NEEDED:

Contact Masood Sattari, Summit Chairperson, if you can volunteer to
help before and/or during the summit, at:
email: afghanreconstruction at yahoo.com
phone: (510) 612-5566

Box lunches available.
For directions and map to the campus go to
www.dominican.edu/about/campus/directionstocampus.html .


Hosted By:
Dominican University and Rebuild Afghanistan Summit 2009 Committee

Hope to see you there,
Rebuild Afghanistan Summit 2009 Committee
www.afghansummit.org
_______________________________________________
OLPC-SF mailing list
OLPC-SF at lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sf



From alchaiken at gmail.com  Sun Nov  1 14:34:53 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 14:34:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Broadcom 4322 WiFi finally working!
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0911011434k26b13ba6l70c6c2b81d993209@mail.gmail.com>

History:
The Broadcom 4322 modem on my HP dv2 laptop was working up to kernel
2.6.9.213 and Fedora 11, but all of a sudden it ground to a halt with
2.6.29.217.    On 2.6.29.213, I was using a driver that I downloaded
from Broadcom's website along with a kernel patch the company
provided.

Litany of failures:
I spent a lot of time messing around with wl.ko and b43-fwcutter under
kernel 2.6.30.?? with nothing to show for it.

Happy ending:
Just today, I had another hack at it and was successful by installing
the broadcom-wl package from rpmfusion-nonfree.    Yes, all I did in
the end was "yum install broadcom-wl" and reboot.

Epilog:
I wouldn't say that the other methods won't work, but you can't beat
this one for simplicity.    Since my system state is less than
pristine at this point, I couldn't swear that some residue of one of
the other methods I tried didn't contribute to the final success.

Now on to pairing bluetooth stereo headphones  with the laptop!

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)  		                                	
    http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
The revolution will be automated.   -- David E. Calkins, riffing on
Gil Scott-Heron's "The revolution will not be televised."
Sent from San Francisco, CA, United States



From bliss at sfo.com  Mon Nov  2 08:58:57 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 08:58:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Bay Bridge reopening after a weekend of intensive effort
	and testing.
Message-ID: <4AEF0FD1.2030500@sfo.com>

    California Highway Patrol just started escorting traffic to the
San Francisco side.

    The state engineers completed testing after an early test
forced revisions to the repair which have been more carefully
done than those on the Labor day weekend.  The welds are
covering more surface area and the tie rods collars have
newly designed surfaces designed to allow more even pressure
and a shock absorbing compound is between the tie rods and
their housing to prevent the sort of damage that happened before.

    And it is officially open and the first cars will be in
San Francisco in a few minutes.

    later
    bliss



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 16:18:01 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 16:18:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) consultant?
Message-ID: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>

If anyone wants to be Ms. Babcock's consultant, here ya go.  I've made
sure she's aware of the Nov. 16th SF-LUG meeting.

----- Forwarded message from polly b <pb4316 at yahoo.com> -----

X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/8.0.7 YahooMailWebService/0.7.347.3
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:24:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: polly b <pb4316 at yahoo.com>
To: rick at linuxmafia.com
Subject: consultant?

Hi Rick
I'm a friend of Holden Aust who gave me your email and suggested I
contact you. I run Linux on my laptop but am dependent upon my tech
friends for support and Holden and Rufus Laggren, my other Linux friend,
are away. My computer hasn't spoken to my printer for several months
(I've done all the usual reconfigure things that a lay person can do)
and, since I'm studying photography, this is a real problem for me.

Also, I want to buy Photoshop Elements (I have Photoshop 5, an ancient
version) and, if possible run it on the Linux side of my computer's
split drive. I'm also contemplating buying a used Mac just for my photos
and P'shop.

My point: I'd like to find someone who would come fix my
printer/computer interface and, if qualified, to advise me on which
Photoshop Elements will run on Linux (without another program to
facilitate this).

I'd really appreciate your either helping with my printer problem or
recommending someone you know who might do it. I live in SF in the Lower
Haight.

Of course I'd like to know your fee schedule.

Cheers,
Polly Babcock
415-626-2611

"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe."
John Muir

      
----- End forwarded message -----



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 17:58:43 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 17:58:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay Area
	(was:	consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>

Just to elaborate on that:  I'm aware there are list-members who are
physically in the city of San Francisco and willing to visit individual
Linux users at their houses/apartments to solve their Linux problems,
either on a consulting basis or free of charge.  I salute their
dedication.  Truly.

This particular Linux user, Polly, stresses that she's an artist and
decidedly not a technical person, and basically is not going to tackle
even what's probably a pretty dirt-simple CUPS config problem without
in-person handholding.   

There's a definite niche for anyone willing to do as Polly asks; she's
hardly the only such computer user.  There are tens of millions of them,
in general we'll basically never see them on LUG mailing lists (because
they want personal, private handholding), and they'll never read FAQs no
matter how many, how good, and how easy to find.

The hard truth, though, is that giving them private helpdesk services
(gratis or not) does little or nothing to build and maintain the Linux
community.  I personally would rather spend my time where it will do
more good.


I'd be glad to keep a directory of people willing to do in-person Linux
consulting (including free, the way LUGOD's LERT does in Davis[1]) for
the Bay Area.  Joshua Drake, who before a nasty schism was part of the
Linux Documentation Project, maintained the "Linux Consultants Guide"
from 2000 to 2006:
http://www.commandprompt.com/community/consultants/guide/

That Guide attempted to cover the entire Earth, which strikes me as not
a reasonable choice of scope.

I've long maintained a list of Bay Area Linux / BSD businesses as an
adjunct to BALE:  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html  If people know
of Linux consultants not yet listed there, please let me know.  (I need
to be able to re-check on people / firms listed, so they need to have
Web sites.)

[1] http://www.lugod.org/projects/lert/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 18:04:35 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 18:04:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091103020435.GO21475@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

> I'd be glad to keep a directory of people willing to do in-person Linux
> consulting (including free, the way LUGOD's LERT does in Davis[1])
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just so I don't inadvertently do harm:  LERT's model is that the user 
agrees to make a modest donation to LUGOD.  Volunteers then
come to visit.  Linux distro installs are expected to be done, instead, 
at LUGOD's installfests unless this is not possible.

More at:  http://www.lugod.org/projects/lert/



From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 19:15:54 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 19:15:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay Area
	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911021915m5b3e70f3haacc23308c417340@mail.gmail.com>

I'm interested in developing a stronger web presence for FOSS-oriented
businesses.  A super-powered LinkedIn for Linux professionals might be very
successful.  We could aggregate news from LUGs in the area, follow all the
Linux twitterers in the region, and all that standard stuff.  Developing it
collectively through GitHub or LaunchPad might be fun too.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 5:58 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Just to elaborate on that:  I'm aware there are list-members who are
> physically in the city of San Francisco and willing to visit individual
> Linux users at their houses/apartments to solve their Linux problems,
> either on a consulting basis or free of charge.  I salute their
> dedication.  Truly.
>
> This particular Linux user, Polly, stresses that she's an artist and
> decidedly not a technical person, and basically is not going to tackle
> even what's probably a pretty dirt-simple CUPS config problem without
> in-person handholding.
>
> There's a definite niche for anyone willing to do as Polly asks; she's
> hardly the only such computer user.  There are tens of millions of them,
> in general we'll basically never see them on LUG mailing lists (because
> they want personal, private handholding), and they'll never read FAQs no
> matter how many, how good, and how easy to find.
>
> The hard truth, though, is that giving them private helpdesk services
> (gratis or not) does little or nothing to build and maintain the Linux
> community.  I personally would rather spend my time where it will do
> more good.
>
>
> I'd be glad to keep a directory of people willing to do in-person Linux
> consulting (including free, the way LUGOD's LERT does in Davis[1]) for
> the Bay Area.  Joshua Drake, who before a nasty schism was part of the
> Linux Documentation Project, maintained the "Linux Consultants Guide"
> from 2000 to 2006:
> http://www.commandprompt.com/community/consultants/guide/
>
> That Guide attempted to cover the entire Earth, which strikes me as not
> a reasonable choice of scope.
>
> I've long maintained a list of Bay Area Linux / BSD businesses as an
> adjunct to BALE:  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html  If people know
> of Linux consultants not yet listed there, please let me know.  (I need
> to be able to re-check on people / firms listed, so they need to have
> Web sites.)
>
> [1] http://www.lugod.org/projects/lert/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From jim at well.com  Mon Nov  2 20:00:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:00:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was:	consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>


   i'm willing to help people out at no charge. 
I'm also willing to charge, mainly if someone 
wants something done on command or within a 
timeframe. 
   use the list to get volunteers (including 
me, sometimes). Use the link below to find out 
about services: 
http://www.systemateka.com 
   (The web site for Systemateka, Inc.) 


On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 17:58 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Just to elaborate on that:  I'm aware there are list-members who are
> physically in the city of San Francisco and willing to visit individual
> Linux users at their houses/apartments to solve their Linux problems,
> either on a consulting basis or free of charge.  I salute their
> dedication.  Truly.
> 
> This particular Linux user, Polly, stresses that she's an artist and
> decidedly not a technical person, and basically is not going to tackle
> even what's probably a pretty dirt-simple CUPS config problem without
> in-person handholding.   
> 
> There's a definite niche for anyone willing to do as Polly asks; she's
> hardly the only such computer user.  There are tens of millions of them,
> in general we'll basically never see them on LUG mailing lists (because
> they want personal, private handholding), and they'll never read FAQs no
> matter how many, how good, and how easy to find.
> 
> The hard truth, though, is that giving them private helpdesk services
> (gratis or not) does little or nothing to build and maintain the Linux
> community.  I personally would rather spend my time where it will do
> more good.
> 
> 
> I'd be glad to keep a directory of people willing to do in-person Linux
> consulting (including free, the way LUGOD's LERT does in Davis[1]) for
> the Bay Area.  Joshua Drake, who before a nasty schism was part of the
> Linux Documentation Project, maintained the "Linux Consultants Guide"
> from 2000 to 2006:
> http://www.commandprompt.com/community/consultants/guide/
> 
> That Guide attempted to cover the entire Earth, which strikes me as not
> a reasonable choice of scope.
> 
> I've long maintained a list of Bay Area Linux / BSD businesses as an
> adjunct to BALE:  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html  If people know
> of Linux consultants not yet listed there, please let me know.  (I need
> to be able to re-check on people / firms listed, so they need to have
> Web sites.)
> 
> [1] http://www.lugod.org/projects/lert/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 22:02:17 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:02:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    i'm willing to help people out at no charge. 
> I'm also willing to charge, mainly if someone 
> wants something done on command or within a 
> timeframe. 

As the Aussies say, "Good on ya", Jim.  ;->

Ms. Polly Babcock would probably appreciate the help, if you have time
and feel like going over to the Lower Haight.  She's pb4316 at yahoo.com or
415-626-2611.

>    use the list to get volunteers (including 
> me, sometimes). Use the link below to find out 
> about services: 
> http://www.systemateka.com 
>    (The web site for Systemateka, Inc.) 

I will be delighted to add Systemateka, Inc. to
http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html -- which, I was just saying
offlist, seems a good candidate for both a reorg and an HTML update to
something less... 1995.  And also to move all the "In memoriam" entries
(Linuxcare, VA Linux Systems, Freedom Technology Center, Eazel, Cobalt
Networks, The CoffeeNet, Tuxtops, Walnut Creek CD-ROM, Universal CD-ROM, 
Yggradsil Computing, all that) to either a different section or a
completely different page.

Getting back for a moment to what I was talking about:  I'd be glad to 
host a Web page that lists all known Linux / BSD consultants and
businesses in the Bay Area.  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html 
has always been _intended_ to be that, and I think it's about the 
best thing we have in that area so far -- but it lacks good enough
information to be useful to, say, people like Polly Babcock, who aren't
looking for Linux workstations or servers, but just someone able to fix
CUPS on her laptop, and help her decide what Photoshop Elements version
to run under WINE.

Speaking from experience (with not just that page but also BALE, and
other pages), the continual job of re-vetting entries (on such Web
pages) is key.  After trying a lot of things, I basically established a
bare-minimum "There must be a Web presence to point to" floor
requirement -- for both LUGs and Linux businesses.  A
not-obviously-defective Web page doesn't guarantee that there's still an
ongoing LUG or consultancy, but it means at least that someone's still
paying for a Web presence.




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Nov  2 22:24:50 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:24:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103020435.GO21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103020435.GO21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091103062450.GA5516@sonic.net>


Not particularly paying attention (read: reading) this thread,
but now my ears are burning.  FWIW, LERT's fairly dead these days.

Our IFs have stalled too, but that's been due to venue issues.

-bill!


On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 06:04:35PM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> I wrote:
> 
> > I'd be glad to keep a directory of people willing to do in-person Linux
> > consulting (including free, the way LUGOD's LERT does in Davis[1])
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Just so I don't inadvertently do harm:  LERT's model is that the user 
> agrees to make a modest donation to LUGOD.  Volunteers then
> come to visit.  Linux distro installs are expected to be done, instead, 
> at LUGOD's installfests unless this is not possible.
> 
> More at:  http://www.lugod.org/projects/lert/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 22:55:25 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:55:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay Area
	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911022255t2a5421f3kefb82a2c7c35029f@mail.gmail.com>

Linux is about discourse, which is why this mailing list is so awesome.  The
site's interface should preference those that participate in discourse.

We should privilege websites with dynamic content in some way-- for instance
an area where all consultancy blogs get aggregated (that have agreed to let
us re-publish).  Users can see someone's personality and will be more
comfortable looking for help.  It doesn't have to be all
business/philosophy/code-like, it could just be a fun place for Linux-users
to publish their content.

Keeping track of active FOSS projects in the area would be cool too.  A
movers and shakers section, basically.

Does anyone here use MVC architecture in their sites?  What frameworks do
you use?  Does anyone use Wordpress, Moveable Type, etc to publish?  I know
there will be a lot of twitters and identi.cas.  We could use Drupal for
different types of users.  There are a lot of great CMS's we could use
though.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
>
> >    i'm willing to help people out at no charge.
> > I'm also willing to charge, mainly if someone
> > wants something done on command or within a
> > timeframe.
>
> As the Aussies say, "Good on ya", Jim.  ;->
>
> Ms. Polly Babcock would probably appreciate the help, if you have time
> and feel like going over to the Lower Haight.  She's pb4316 at yahoo.com or
> 415-626-2611.
>
> >    use the list to get volunteers (including
> > me, sometimes). Use the link below to find out
> > about services:
> > http://www.systemateka.com
> >    (The web site for Systemateka, Inc.)
>
> I will be delighted to add Systemateka, Inc. to
> http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html -- which, I was just saying
> offlist, seems a good candidate for both a reorg and an HTML update to
> something less... 1995.  And also to move all the "In memoriam" entries
> (Linuxcare, VA Linux Systems, Freedom Technology Center, Eazel, Cobalt
> Networks, The CoffeeNet, Tuxtops, Walnut Creek CD-ROM, Universal CD-ROM,
> Yggradsil Computing, all that) to either a different section or a
> completely different page.
>
> Getting back for a moment to what I was talking about:  I'd be glad to
> host a Web page that lists all known Linux / BSD consultants and
> businesses in the Bay Area.  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html
> has always been _intended_ to be that, and I think it's about the
> best thing we have in that area so far -- but it lacks good enough
> information to be useful to, say, people like Polly Babcock, who aren't
> looking for Linux workstations or servers, but just someone able to fix
> CUPS on her laptop, and help her decide what Photoshop Elements version
> to run under WINE.
>
> Speaking from experience (with not just that page but also BALE, and
> other pages), the continual job of re-vetting entries (on such Web
> pages) is key.  After trying a lot of things, I basically established a
> bare-minimum "There must be a Web presence to point to" floor
> requirement -- for both LUGs and Linux businesses.  A
> not-obviously-defective Web page doesn't guarantee that there's still an
> ongoing LUG or consultancy, but it means at least that someone's still
> paying for a Web presence.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 23:23:03 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 23:23:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <5200c28f0911022255t2a5421f3kefb82a2c7c35029f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<5200c28f0911022255t2a5421f3kefb82a2c7c35029f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091103072303.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Kai Chang (kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com):

> Linux is about discourse, which is why this mailing list is so awesome.  The
> site's interface should preference those that participate in discourse.

I'm not sure which site you're speaking of, when you say "the site".

If you're talking about some site you'd like to build for the purpose
mentioned in my subject header, super!  Thanks for taking that on.

Personally, I'm just trying to (1) improve my
slightly-less-dusty-for-tonight's-content-maintenance Web page at
http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html to make it more useful, and 
(2) encouraging folks to consider how best to get the Polly Babcocks 
in touch with effective consulting help.

IMO, Polly's case reminds us of the existence of a large class of people
who will never "participate in discourse".  I'm not being critical of
people who say "let 'em solve their own problems", but am just asking if
there's a way to lower the bar for them.  That is, I didn't know where
to send Polly for an SF-based consultant.  It'd be nice if there were a
list, or something like that.

Thus the subject header.




> We should privilege websites with dynamic content in some way-- for instance
> an area where all consultancy blogs get aggregated (that have agreed to let
> us re-publish).  [...]

I have no idea what problem you're trying to solve, here, but good luck
to you.


> Does anyone here use MVC architecture in their sites?  What frameworks do
> you use?  Does anyone use Wordpress, Moveable Type, etc to publish?

It's possible that my thread will prove to be stillborn, but would you
mind not hijacking it by changing the subject to rampant Web-geek
technophilia?




From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Mon Nov  2 23:46:49 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 23:46:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay Area
	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <20091103072303.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<5200c28f0911022255t2a5421f3kefb82a2c7c35029f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091103072303.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911022346t2d73ba0ai1fc0f069949b9b70@mail.gmail.com>

"I'm not sure which site you're speaking of, when you say "the site".

If you're talking about some site you'd like to build for the purpose
mentioned in my subject header, super!"

It was my suggestion for how you enter content into your list.  You can get
plenty of free plugins that only take a few minutes to implement that could
rank users somehow.  This would solve your maintenance issues were sites
need to be manually vetted.  Automatic indexing would require tweaking over
time, but it would enrich the content of the landing page.

I'd like to implement something similar, so I was sort of leap-frogging off
your idea.  I'd like to collaborate with this mailing list, but I will start
a new thread in a few days.

That is, I didn't know where to send Polly for an SF-based consultant.  It'd
be nice if there were a list, or something like that.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cps?query=linux&catAbbreviation=cps
Unfortunately this won't usually yield a list of volunteers, and a lot of
these seem like scams.  You can usually get someone good if you work a
little at it though.

"It's possible that my thread will prove to be stillborn, but would you
mind not hijacking it by changing the subject to rampant Web-geek
technophilia?"

I'm sorry, I do not know the etiquette for how open-source projects get off
the ground.  It sounds like I should start my own thread.

This thread was targeted at web site owners.  I know I shift what I'm
talking about

On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting Kai Chang (kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com):
>
> > Linux is about discourse, which is why this mailing list is so awesome.
>  The
> > site's interface should preference those that participate in discourse.
>
> I'm not sure which site you're speaking of, when you say "the site".
>
> If you're talking about some site you'd like to build for the purpose
> mentioned in my subject header, super!  Thanks for taking that on.
>
> Personally, I'm just trying to (1) improve my
> slightly-less-dusty-for-tonight's-content-maintenance Web page at
> http://linuxmafia.com/bale/other.html to make it more useful, and
> (2) encouraging folks to consider how best to get the Polly Babcocks
> in touch with effective consulting help.
>
> IMO, Polly's case reminds us of the existence of a large class of people
> who will never "participate in discourse".  I'm not being critical of
> people who say "let 'em solve their own problems", but am just asking if
> there's a way to lower the bar for them.  That is, I didn't know where
> to send Polly for an SF-based consultant.  It'd be nice if there were a
> list, or something like that.
>
> Thus the subject header.
>
>
>
>
> > We should privilege websites with dynamic content in some way-- for
> instance
> > an area where all consultancy blogs get aggregated (that have agreed to
> let
> > us re-publish).  [...]
>
> I have no idea what problem you're trying to solve, here, but good luck
> to you.
>
>
> > Does anyone here use MVC architecture in their sites?  What frameworks do
> > you use?  Does anyone use Wordpress, Moveable Type, etc to publish?
>
> It's possible that my thread will prove to be stillborn, but would you
> mind not hijacking it by changing the subject to rampant Web-geek
> technophilia?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov  2 23:57:49 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 23:57:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Towards a list of Linux consultants in the Bay
	Area	(was: consultant?)
In-Reply-To: <5200c28f0911022346t2d73ba0ai1fc0f069949b9b70@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091103001801.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091103015843.GA26440@linuxmafia.com>
	<1257220822.6511.16.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091103060217.GI1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<5200c28f0911022255t2a5421f3kefb82a2c7c35029f@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091103072303.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<5200c28f0911022346t2d73ba0ai1fc0f069949b9b70@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091103075749.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Kai Chang (kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com):

> It was my suggestion for how you enter content into your list.

I cannot see the least relevance of ranking users, automatic indexing,
or other rabid-Web-technophile suggestions.  Nonethless, I wish you
the best of luck.

As it appears you are still heading off in a different direction, kindly
start a different thread.  Thank you.


> That is, I didn't know where to send Polly for an SF-based consultant.  It'd
> be nice if there were a list, or something like that.

[That I didn't know where to send Polly for an SF-based consultant]

> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cps?query=linux&catAbbreviation=cps

You _really_ haven't bothered to think this through, have you?


> This thread was targeted at web site owners. 

Nope.

But that's probably academic, because I rather suspect you've killed it.




From shawnisalk at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 08:47:33 2009
From: shawnisalk at gmail.com (Shawn Lewis)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:47:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Introductions
Message-ID: <66d9ffc40911030847k3e5c50dcv68f5ed5d76cc62ee@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, everyone.

My name is Shawn. I'm a new add to the group. Although, in years past, I
played with Linux from time to time, the incredible amount of development
that has happened with Linux and the stability and ease-of-use I've run into
with Ubuntu has wooed me. Recently, I dropped Windows (from my personal
machine) and I'm never going back.

I work for Sarai LLC, a tiny tech consulting firm that supports, primarily,
non-profits. We share office space in the SF Non-Profit Tech Center with
Aspiration and Radical Designs, both excellent groups of people. We support
mainly Windows users, also some Mac-using folks.

I'm a late-comer to the open source fold. Although I am not a developer, I
find, inexplicably, that I have very strong feelings about open source
software and its propagation.

I am a newbie at Linux. My laptop has the latest version of Ubuntu on it,
and I have an old IBM Thinkpad i series setup as a Debian server. I'm using
DynDns with port forwarding to allow myself to SSH and STFP into the server
from outside. I am using NIS and will be setting NFS up, soon. It will be a
rite of passage for me when I can duplicate the functionality of a Windows
Domain in a Linux environment.

I look forward to getting to know you all and furthering my
interest/knowledge in/of Linux. I'm going to try to make it to the
get-together on the 16th. I look forward to meeting some of you then.

Shawn Lewis
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 12:55:25 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:55:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Introductions
In-Reply-To: <66d9ffc40911030847k3e5c50dcv68f5ed5d76cc62ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66d9ffc40911030847k3e5c50dcv68f5ed5d76cc62ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040911031255x25e8d35fyb2cbf3a46f856ff0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Shawn Lewis <shawnisalk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, everyone.
>
> My name is Shawn. I'm a new add to the group.


Welcome.  The SF Bay Area has lots of Linux-related activity.  There are
Linux meetings regularly through BALUG and SF-LUG and at Noisebridge, each
easily googleable.  Let me know if you don't find the links.  In the east
bay, there is EBLUG and in the south bay there is SVLUG and Conspire, which
is a really nice barbeque at Rick Moen's house.

There are also three schools in the SF Bay Area which are using Linux and
could use volunteers.  In addition, I am producing a documentary called the
Digital Tipping Point about how Free Open Source Software is changing global
culture.  We have 100 hours of our raw, forkable footage posted to
Archive.org.

Please let me know if any of these things interest you and if you need more
info.

c u
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov  3 13:11:37 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 13:11:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Introductions
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040911031255x25e8d35fyb2cbf3a46f856ff0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <66d9ffc40911030847k3e5c50dcv68f5ed5d76cc62ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040911031255x25e8d35fyb2cbf3a46f856ff0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091103211137.GU21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> Welcome.  The SF Bay Area has lots of Linux-related activity.  There are
> Linux meetings regularly through BALUG and SF-LUG and at Noisebridge, each
> easily googleable.  Let me know if you don't find the links.  In the east
> bay, there is EBLUG and in the south bay there is SVLUG and Conspire, which
> is a really nice barbeque at Rick Moen's house.

Actually, the name of that Linux user group[1] is CABAL (old in-joke).
Being named "CABAL" since its 1997 founding at a Linux-based Internet 
cafe in SOMA, that LUG's logical choice of name for its _mailing list_
was therefore Conspire (started in mid-2000 using Majordomo, then
converted over to GNU Mailman in Dec. 2000).  Get it?

http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/


[1] Sure, we do BBQ (since, aside from that and free parking, what else
are the suburbs good for? ;->  ), but it's also a full-blown real,
meets-regularly-and-everything user group and twice-monthly installfest.




From rlisam at gmail.com  Tue Nov  3 17:27:23 2009
From: rlisam at gmail.com (Roderick Lisam)
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:27:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fedora 11 boot error
Message-ID: <2d3fb2010911031727u6e04232es54024a4650806d6d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

I just installed Fedora 11 and I was wondering if anyone else knows anything
about an error message while booting that says:
"Fail in evaluating the _REG object of EC device" and something about a bad
bios suspected. This still allows Fedora to finish loading, though with
another message that the kernel had problems. Fedora still seems to work
though.

thanks

-- 
Roderick Lisam
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From jim at well.com  Wed Nov  4 09:28:41 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:28:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion at noisebridge tonight 6 to 8 PM
Message-ID: <1257355721.6511.39.camel@jim-laptop>


robert briley is hosting this evening's linux 
discussion group at noisebridge, 2169 mission 
very near 18th, from 6 PM to 8 PM or so. 




From jim at well.com  Wed Nov  4 23:02:26 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:02:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] an embarrassing question about partitions
Message-ID: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>


   i'm sorry to put this question to you, but 
i'm stuck. it has to do with linux, obliquely. 

   i was trying to put ubuntu on a dell inspiron 
1545 laptop. i began by ensuring the windows cds 
were available, then i wiped out windows and 
reformatted the hard drive (...skipping some sad 
parts of the tale...) so that it had a 40GB 
partition for windows, a 30GB partition to have 
a vfat filesystem, then some partitions for 
ubuntu. 
   then i installed windows vista on the first 
partition.  
   then i installed ubuntu, formatting the 
second partition with VFAT, and putting the / 
on the third partition (and other stuff on other
partitions. the idea is that the second partition 
should be visible to both windows and ubuntu. 
   it seemed to work: turn it on, the grub menu 
presents choices including ubuntu and windows 
vista. i chose ubuntu, all is well. 
  i restart and choose windows. windows shows 
the C: drive as well as a D:, E:, and F: drive, 
one each for DVD, CD, and USB. 

   the second partition on the disk, formatted 
with VFAT, intended to store files accessible by 
both windows and ubuntu, is not visible! 
   how to get windows to see the second partition? 
how to create a G: drive to access the second 
partition? 

   the answer is important, as the laptop owner 
had the idea to eliminate ubuntu entirely and 
revert the entire laptop to windows only. 

hopefully, with thanks, 
jim 






From grantbow at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 00:49:47 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 00:49:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Convert ogv video to mp4 video?
Message-ID: <317e39f0911050049h38925e87k1887d97b3066ac5d@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

Due in part to upstream licensing with the AAC code [1] my attempts to
convert this video [2] to play on my Google phone [3] have so far
failed. I would like help with two things.

A) what tools (preferably command line) can tell me exactly the type
of audio & video contained inside ogg/ogv and mp4 files?

B) how can I successfully convert this video [2] to play on my phone?

I thought I had converted it successfully during one trial, yet the
resulting file would play just fine on my laptop but had no audio when
playing on my phone.  I've tried converting using VLC (Ubuntu 9.10 and
Windows XP), ffmpeg on Ubuntu, and winff (Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows XP).

Thanks,

Grant Bowman
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam


[1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/412063

[2] http://www.redhat.com/stories/redhatway named "The Red Hat Way"
available versions are .flv and .ogg

[3] I think the ideal size is 320x480 MP4 video at 480 kb/s and AAC
stereo audio at 128 bits per second.  I used the ogg as the source.  I
am running Android version 1.6.  No file I have tried so far
successfully plays on my phone even if it "should."



From qrplife at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 06:58:54 2009
From: qrplife at gmail.com (Matthew Bye)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 06:58:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] an embarrassing question about partitions
In-Reply-To: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <3761a1c0911050658h978850fjdc2ae5e24d711ea3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim,

I am not an expert at either filesystem but I've had some recent experience
trying to get drives to appear in Windows. Try Control Panel >>
Administrative Tools >> Computer Management >> Disk Manager - does the
partition appear in the disk manager? If so, can you assign a drive letter
to it?

Hope that helps.

-matt

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 11:02 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   i'm sorry to put this question to you, but
> i'm stuck. it has to do with linux, obliquely.
>
>   i was trying to put ubuntu on a dell inspiron
> 1545 laptop. i began by ensuring the windows cds
> were available, then i wiped out windows and
> reformatted the hard drive (...skipping some sad
> parts of the tale...) so that it had a 40GB
> partition for windows, a 30GB partition to have
> a vfat filesystem, then some partitions for
> ubuntu.
>   then i installed windows vista on the first
> partition.
>   then i installed ubuntu, formatting the
> second partition with VFAT, and putting the /
> on the third partition (and other stuff on other
> partitions. the idea is that the second partition
> should be visible to both windows and ubuntu.
>   it seemed to work: turn it on, the grub menu
> presents choices including ubuntu and windows
> vista. i chose ubuntu, all is well.
>  i restart and choose windows. windows shows
> the C: drive as well as a D:, E:, and F: drive,
> one each for DVD, CD, and USB.
>
>   the second partition on the disk, formatted
> with VFAT, intended to store files accessible by
> both windows and ubuntu, is not visible!
>   how to get windows to see the second partition?
> how to create a G: drive to access the second
> partition?
>
>   the answer is important, as the laptop owner
> had the idea to eliminate ubuntu entirely and
> revert the entire laptop to windows only.
>
> hopefully, with thanks,
> jim
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



-- 
qrp - not just low power, a way of life.
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From rick at rbsmith.com  Thu Nov  5 07:38:29 2009
From: rick at rbsmith.com (rick at rbsmith.com)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:38:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] an embarrassing question about partitions
In-Reply-To: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091105073829.ayiy2lmko4gokgcg@rbsmith.com>

Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:

>
>    i'm sorry to put this question to you, but
> i'm stuck. it has to do with linux, obliquely.

I responded offlist relative to the non-linux part,
which was have the other os format and label the partition,
and ubuntu should have no trouble picking it up.

Rick




From jim at well.com  Thu Nov  5 07:54:05 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:54:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] an embarrassing question about partitions
In-Reply-To: <20091105073829.ayiy2lmko4gokgcg@rbsmith.com>
References: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091105073829.ayiy2lmko4gokgcg@rbsmith.com>
Message-ID: <1257436445.6511.89.camel@jim-laptop>


got it! many thanks, rick. 


On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 07:38 -0800, rick at rbsmith.com wrote:
> Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:
> 
> >
> >    i'm sorry to put this question to you, but
> > i'm stuck. it has to do with linux, obliquely.
> 
> I responded offlist relative to the non-linux part,
> which was have the other os format and label the partition,
> and ubuntu should have no trouble picking it up.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 09:14:35 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:14:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] an embarrassing question about partitions
In-Reply-To: <1257436445.6511.89.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1257404546.6511.68.camel@jim-laptop>	<20091105073829.ayiy2lmko4gokgcg@rbsmith.com>
	<1257436445.6511.89.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4AF307FB.1010402@gmail.com>

i, for one, would be interested in the solution, even offlist

jim wrote:
> got it! many thanks, rick. 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 07:38 -0800, rick at rbsmith.com wrote:
>> Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:
>>
>>>    i'm sorry to put this question to you, but
>>> i'm stuck. it has to do with linux, obliquely.
>> I responded offlist relative to the non-linux part,
>> which was have the other os format and label the partition,
>> and ubuntu should have no trouble picking it up.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 



From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Thu Nov  5 09:41:14 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 09:41:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Convert ogv video to mp4 video?
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0911050049h38925e87k1887d97b3066ac5d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <317e39f0911050049h38925e87k1887d97b3066ac5d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BEAD71EE-FD41-466E-A889-AC20F5DB6756@compbizsolutions.com>

>
> Greetings,
>
> Due in part to upstream licensing with the AAC code [1] my attempts to
> convert this video [2] to play on my Google phone [3] have so far
> failed. I would like help with two things.
>
> A) what tools (preferably command line) can tell me exactly the type
> of audio & video contained inside ogg/ogv and mp4 files?
>
> B) how can I successfully convert this video [2] to play on my phone?
>
> I thought I had converted it successfully during one trial, yet the
> resulting file would play just fine on my laptop but had no audio when
> playing on my phone.  I've tried converting using VLC (Ubuntu 9.10 and
> Windows XP), ffmpeg on Ubuntu, and winff (Ubuntu 9.10 and Windows XP).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Grant Bowman
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam
>
>
> [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ffmpeg/+bug/412063
>
> [2] http://www.redhat.com/stories/redhatway named "The Red Hat Way"
> available versions are .flv and .ogg
>
> [3] I think the ideal size is 320x480 MP4 video at 480 kb/s and AAC
> stereo audio at 128 bits per second.  I used the ogg as the source.  I
> am running Android version 1.6.  No file I have tried so far
> successfully plays on my phone even if it "should."
>

Grant,
I was able to successfully create an MP4 from the OGG source using our  
On2 Flix Engine software and playable on my iPhone (I can email you  
the 2.1MB file), however we pay for the MP4/ACC license ($4K / year).  
Not the solution you want to hear I'm sure but I haven't had any luck  
with other tools in creating mobile-friendly video formats.

----------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric
Computer Business Solutions
www.lnx4edu.com






From MPARIC at COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM  Thu Nov  5 10:08:49 2009
From: MPARIC at COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM (Michael Paric)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:08:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
Message-ID: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>

I'm building a demonstration system using an LDAP-based domain  
controller and LTSP servers. In the past I've built these systems  
using RHEL/CentOS, however there seems to be a large base of Ubuntu  
users here in the Bay Area. How many are using Ubuntu as just servers  
(headless, no gui) and why Ubuntu rather than another enterprise-class  
server? 



From bill at wards.net  Thu Nov  5 12:00:04 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:00:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 11/12/2009
Message-ID: <E1N68V2-0000re-SL@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:

   NOTE: To avoid conflicts with holidays, PenLUG meetings in November and
   December shift to the second Thursday of each month. We return to our
   normal Fourth Thursday schedule in January.

   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |Date:    |Thursday, November 12, 2009                                 |
   |---------+------------------------------------------------------------|
   |Time:    |6:00 - 8:00 PM                                              |
   |---------+------------------------------------------------------------|
   |         |Bayshore Technology Park                                    |
   |Location:|1300 Island Drive                                           |
   |         |Redwood City, CA 94065                                      |
   |         |Suite 106 - Training Room                                   |
   |---------+------------------------------------------------------------|
   |RSVP:    |Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=195276872246|
   |         |or mail rsvp at penlug.org                                     |
   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Agenda:

     * 6:00 PM Free pizza arrives
     * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes
     * 6:30 PM Presentation begins
     * 8:00 PM Meeting ends

  yum --enablerepo=olpc-info update

   This presentation will address updates from the OLPC project (hardware,
   software, networks, schools, teachers, children, parents, etc), its
   achievements thus far (what works and what does not) and where it is
   headed in the near future (yes, its still alive). We will also look at how
   various communities (such as PenLUG) can participate in the educational,
   technological and social contexts.

  Sameer Verma

   Profess by day, tinker by night. Dr. Sameer Verma is an associate
   professor of Information Systems in the college of Business at San
   Francisco State University. His research revolves around the diffusion and
   adoption of innovative technologies. He also teaches a course titled
   "Managing Open Source" at San Francisco State University. In his free
   time, Sameer volunteers with One Laptop Per Child by organizing the
   OLPC-San Francisco Bay Area group.

RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
      http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From jim at well.com  Thu Nov  5 17:32:20 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:32:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
Message-ID: <1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>



   i use ubuntu server on a 1U supermicro. 
   main reason is support/cost ratio: better 
than centOS or Red Hat. people with good 
skills, as a group, seem to prefer the debian 
flavor. 
   there's still a lot of red hat work out 
there. 



On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 10:08 -0800, Michael Paric wrote:
> I'm building a demonstration system using an LDAP-based domain  
> controller and LTSP servers. In the past I've built these systems  
> using RHEL/CentOS, however there seems to be a large base of Ubuntu  
> users here in the Bay Area. How many are using Ubuntu as just servers  
> (headless, no gui) and why Ubuntu rather than another enterprise-class  
> server? 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Nov  5 18:16:49 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:16:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    i use ubuntu server on a 1U supermicro. 
>    main reason is support/cost ratio: better 
> than centOS or Red Hat. people with good 
> skills, as a group, seem to prefer the debian 
> flavor. 

I'd actually like to pick your brain, on that, if you have a moment.

Some years ago, a now-long-vanished SVLUG vice-president decided to use,
for the replacement Web server site, a Linode virtual-machine image of
Ubuntu Server.  I think it was an image of 5.04 Hoary Hedgehog at the
time.  He did this without consulting with anyone -- and, in the
time-honoured fashion of executives everywhere, then dropped out and
let other people deal with the consequences of his decisions.  ;->

In particular, that system was dropped on _me_, and I was told to fit
all of SVLUG's operations -- Web site, Mailman mailing lists with almost
a decade of history, SMTP e-mail with intensive antispam, DNS
authoritative nameservice, and shell accounts -- into a 64 MB RAM
virtual machine with 3 GB hard disk.  The VP breezily pronounced that it
shouldn't be a problem, shortly before dropping out of sight.

That functionality spec was, in fact, completely impossible with only 64
MB of RAM, but I sure tried.  First, using NSD rather than BIND9 saved a
ton of RAM for namservice, and I can strongly recommend it for
authoritative-only roles.  Second, we went with Lighttpd rather than
Apache httpd for Web service, which again saved hugely on RAM.
Shoehorning the e-mail and mailing list services into that tiny box had
to be abandoned, and split off to elsewhere.  If nothing else, the RAM
required for meaningful spam-rejection was prohibitively high and would
have killed the machine, and the mailing lists' back-posting archives
alone would have accounted for all the disk space.

Initially, I had to construct my own Ubuntu-ised packages for NSD and
Lighttpd (and, if memory serves, a couple of other things such as
related libs(?)), because they didn't exist in Ubuntu.  Later, some or
perhaps all of those packages (can't remember) started being built for
Ubuntu, but for a couple of years they were local packages only.

But, anyway, getting back to the point, every time Ubuntu had a release,
I had to carry out what, by _Debian_ standards, struck me as a
ludicrously manual and somewhat nerve-wracking system upgrade.  That is:

# sed -i 's/hoary/breezy/' /etc/apt/sources.list
# apt-get update
# apt-get dist-upgrade

...and, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I really held my breath,
every time, lest something crucial break -- especially when I had
substantial parts of the system as locally built packages.


On my Debian-based servers, instead of having to reference named
branches such as etch, lenny, squeeze, I can just leave the _functional_
term "testing" or "stable" or "unstable" (whichever one local policy
dictates), to remain an approximately fixed amount of rawness away from
the bleeding edge.  These functional names are implemented as symlinks:

:r!  lftp -e ls ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/
cd ok, cwd=/debian/dists                                 
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 09  2009 Debian4.0r8 -> etch
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14  2009 Debian5.0.3 -> lenny
-rw-r--r--    1 1176     1176          534 Sep 04 18:54 README
drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 May 23 17:31 etch
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 May 23 17:31 etch-m68k
drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176       110592 Nov 05 23:54 etch-proposed-updates
drwxr-sr-x   19 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 experimental
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Sep 04 21:11 lenny
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176        73728 Nov 05 23:54 lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 14  2009 oldstable -> etch
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           21 Feb 14  2009 oldstable-proposed-updates -> etch-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14  2009 proposed-updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           12 Aug 04  2008 rc-buggy -> experimental
drwxr-xr-x   19 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 sid
drwxr-xr-x   17 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 squeeze
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 squeeze-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14  2009 stable -> lenny
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14  2009 stable-proposed-updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            7 Feb 14  2009 testing -> squeeze
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           24 Feb 14  2009 testing-proposed-updates -> squeeze-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            3 Nov 10  2007 unstable -> sid 


The point is, if I point my /etc/apt/sources.list entries at "stable", which
today is a symlink to lenny, then whenever squeeze gets declared the new
stable branch, my system will smoothly and transparently move from lenny 
to squeeze without my having to do a manual and somewhat nerve-wracking 
supervised upgrade.  

I consider it less nerve-wracking because it's the job of Debian's
Release Manager to make sure that, e.g., squeeze is in really good 
shape _and_ is a really smooth upgrade from the current incarnation of
lenny, and do the cutover only then -- with the result that all systems 
that track "stable" in /etc/apt/sources.list make the jump at the
optimal time with good quality control.  And they have a really good
track record for actually doing that -- well.


But I've never seen any such mechanism in Ubuntu:

:r! lftp -e ls ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
cd ok, cwd=/ubuntu/dists                                 
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 22 05:18 dapper
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 22 05:18 dapper-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 23 04:45 dapper-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 dapper-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 dapper-updates
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 17 04:41 hardy-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 17 04:41 hardy-updates
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 intrepid
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Feb 21  2009 intrepid-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 04 06:31 intrepid-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 26  2008 intrepid-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 13  2008 intrepid-updates
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 jaunty
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Sep 28 04:45 jaunty-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 03 06:09 jaunty-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 02 04:51 jaunty-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 May 14 04:40 jaunty-updates
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Apr 25  2009 karmic
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Apr 23  2009 karmic-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 06:17 karmic-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 03 06:09 karmic-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 31 05:47 karmic-updates
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 31 05:46 lucid
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-backports
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-proposed
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-security
drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-updates


So, my understanding is:  There's no automated mechanism for smoothly
moving Ubuntu Server from the current stable branch to further ones,
right?  I have to:

1.  Find out there's been a new release.
2.  Get its name (karmic, lucid...).
3.  Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
4.  Use apt-get (or aptitude) to do a semi-manual upgrade, and hope 
    for the best.  (This isn't an X11 system, so "Upgrade Manager", 
    etc., is not in the picture.)

Am I missing something?

-- 
Rick Moen                    "Names of fictional places are capitalized: 
rick at linuxmafia.com          Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc."
                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook



From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Thu Nov  5 18:59:20 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 18:59:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>


> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
>
>>   i use ubuntu server on a 1U supermicro.
>>   main reason is support/cost ratio: better
>> than centOS or Red Hat. people with good
>> skills, as a group, seem to prefer the debian
>> flavor.
>
> I'd actually like to pick your brain, on that, if you have a moment.
>
> Some years ago, a now-long-vanished SVLUG vice-president decided to  
> use,
> for the replacement Web server site, a Linode virtual-machine image of
> Ubuntu Server.  I think it was an image of 5.04 Hoary Hedgehog at the
> time.  He did this without consulting with anyone -- and, in the
> time-honoured fashion of executives everywhere, then dropped out and
> let other people deal with the consequences of his decisions.  ;->
>
> In particular, that system was dropped on _me_, and I was told to fit
> all of SVLUG's operations -- Web site, Mailman mailing lists with  
> almost
> a decade of history, SMTP e-mail with intensive antispam, DNS
> authoritative nameservice, and shell accounts -- into a 64 MB RAM
> virtual machine with 3 GB hard disk.  The VP breezily pronounced  
> that it
> shouldn't be a problem, shortly before dropping out of sight.
>
> That functionality spec was, in fact, completely impossible with  
> only 64
> MB of RAM, but I sure tried.  First, using NSD rather than BIND9  
> saved a
> ton of RAM for namservice, and I can strongly recommend it for
> authoritative-only roles.  Second, we went with Lighttpd rather than
> Apache httpd for Web service, which again saved hugely on RAM.
> Shoehorning the e-mail and mailing list services into that tiny box  
> had
> to be abandoned, and split off to elsewhere.  If nothing else, the RAM
> required for meaningful spam-rejection was prohibitively high and  
> would
> have killed the machine, and the mailing lists' back-posting archives
> alone would have accounted for all the disk space.
>
> Initially, I had to construct my own Ubuntu-ised packages for NSD and
> Lighttpd (and, if memory serves, a couple of other things such as
> related libs(?)), because they didn't exist in Ubuntu.  Later, some or
> perhaps all of those packages (can't remember) started being built for
> Ubuntu, but for a couple of years they were local packages only.
>
> But, anyway, getting back to the point, every time Ubuntu had a  
> release,
> I had to carry out what, by _Debian_ standards, struck me as a
> ludicrously manual and somewhat nerve-wracking system upgrade.  That  
> is:
>
> # sed -i 's/hoary/breezy/' /etc/apt/sources.list
> # apt-get update
> # apt-get dist-upgrade
>
> ...and, maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I really held my breath,
> every time, lest something crucial break -- especially when I had
> substantial parts of the system as locally built packages.
>
>
> On my Debian-based servers, instead of having to reference named
> branches such as etch, lenny, squeeze, I can just leave the  
> _functional_
> term "testing" or "stable" or "unstable" (whichever one local policy
> dictates), to remain an approximately fixed amount of rawness away  
> from
> the bleeding edge.  These functional names are implemented as  
> symlinks:
>
> :r!  lftp -e ls ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/
> cd ok, cwd=/debian/dists
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 09  2009 Debian4.0r8 - 
> > etch
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14  2009 Debian5.0.3 - 
> > lenny
> -rw-r--r--    1 1176     1176          534 Sep 04 18:54 README
> drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 May 23 17:31 etch
> drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 May 23 17:31 etch-m68k
> drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176       110592 Nov 05 23:54 etch- 
> proposed-updates
> drwxr-sr-x   19 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 experimental
> drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Sep 04 21:11 lenny
> drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176        73728 Nov 05 23:54 lenny- 
> proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 14  2009 oldstable ->  
> etch
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           21 Feb 14  2009 oldstable- 
> proposed-updates -> etch-proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14  2009 proposed- 
> updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           12 Aug 04  2008 rc-buggy ->  
> experimental
> drwxr-xr-x   19 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 sid
> drwxr-xr-x   17 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 squeeze
> drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Nov 05 23:55 squeeze- 
> proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14  2009 stable ->  
> lenny
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14  2009 stable- 
> proposed-updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            7 Feb 14  2009 testing ->  
> squeeze
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           24 Feb 14  2009 testing- 
> proposed-updates -> squeeze-proposed-updates
> lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            3 Nov 10  2007 unstable ->  
> sid
>
>
> The point is, if I point my /etc/apt/sources.list entries at  
> "stable", which
> today is a symlink to lenny, then whenever squeeze gets declared the  
> new
> stable branch, my system will smoothly and transparently move from  
> lenny
> to squeeze without my having to do a manual and somewhat nerve- 
> wracking
> supervised upgrade.
>
> I consider it less nerve-wracking because it's the job of Debian's
> Release Manager to make sure that, e.g., squeeze is in really good
> shape _and_ is a really smooth upgrade from the current incarnation of
> lenny, and do the cutover only then -- with the result that all  
> systems
> that track "stable" in /etc/apt/sources.list make the jump at the
> optimal time with good quality control.  And they have a really good
> track record for actually doing that -- well.
>
>
> But I've never seen any such mechanism in Ubuntu:
>
> :r! lftp -e ls ftp://ftp.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/
> cd ok, cwd=/ubuntu/dists
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 22 05:18 dapper
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 22 05:18 dapper- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 23 04:45 dapper- 
> proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 dapper- 
> security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 dapper-updates
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 hardy-proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 17 04:41 hardy-security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 17 04:41 hardy-updates
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 intrepid
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Feb 21  2009 intrepid- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 04 06:31 intrepid- 
> proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 26  2008 intrepid- 
> security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 13  2008 intrepid- 
> updates
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 12  2008 jaunty
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Sep 28 04:45 jaunty- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 03 06:09 jaunty- 
> proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Jul 02 04:51 jaunty- 
> security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 May 14 04:40 jaunty-updates
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Apr 25  2009 karmic
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Apr 23  2009 karmic- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 06:17 karmic- 
> proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Nov 03 06:09 karmic- 
> security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 31 05:47 karmic-updates
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 31 05:46 lucid
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid- 
> backports
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-proposed
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-security
> drwxr-xr-x    6 1000     1000         4096 Oct 30 07:08 lucid-updates
>
>
> So, my understanding is:  There's no automated mechanism for smoothly
> moving Ubuntu Server from the current stable branch to further ones,
> right?  I have to:
>
> 1.  Find out there's been a new release.
> 2.  Get its name (karmic, lucid...).
> 3.  Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
> 4.  Use apt-get (or aptitude) to do a semi-manual upgrade, and hope
>    for the best.  (This isn't an X11 system, so "Upgrade Manager",
>    etc., is not in the picture.)
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> -- 
> Rick Moen                    "Names of fictional places are  
> capitalized:
> rick at linuxmafia.com          Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc."
>                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


Thanks all for the great feedback; what I'm not sure about is why  
Ubuntu sysadmins would be upgrading on every release. Stability to me  
is the top priority on a server, especially a headless, no gui  
workhorse running key network services. Sure, RHEL/CentOS and the last  
Ubuntu LTS release may have older kernels and packages, but is it  
really necessary to have your network servers running the latest (and  
sometimes *not* the greatest) versions? For the desktop, sure, you  
probably want the latest wireless, graphics, disk drivers, but is any  
of that is necessary in a server environment? From what I've read on  
the Ubuntu site, they've spent a good deal of time making sure an "apt- 
get dist-upgrade" from one LTS version to the next is relatively  
smooth, especially since you're not dealing with all the cutting-edge  
drivers and gui features that play havoc with the system. I'm running  
9.10 UNR on my netbook, but wouldn't think about upgrading the server  
from 8.04 LTS until the next LTS cycle (even a demonstration system).


--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric
mparic at compbizsolutions.com
www.compbizsolutions.com








From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Nov  5 19:23:47 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:23:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
Message-ID: <4b5781040911051923l7ea5cec7r908b09ff0575254@mail.gmail.com>

We are running Ubuntu Hardy headless at one of our SF Bay Area school
projects.  Drew Hess and James Howard are the server architects.  I will let
them know that you are looking for feedback.

>From the viewpoint of a simple end user, it works quite well.  The kids can
get on any machine and login.  The software is pushed out from the server to
31 clients.  There is a really good parental control filter on the server.
If one machine goes down, we just slap another machine on there and use
James Howard's mass-installer and boom there is a new operating system on
the machine in about 15 minutes, and it is so easy to install that even a
simple end user like me can do it.  The whole thing is kinda magical.

Grant Bowman will also be able to tell more technical details about the
machine.
-------------- next part --------------
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Nov  5 19:45:59 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 19:45:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paric (mparic at compbizsolutions.com):

>>
>>
>> So, my understanding is:  There's no automated mechanism for smoothly
>> moving Ubuntu Server from the current stable branch to further ones,
>> right?  I have to:
>>
>> 1.  Find out there's been a new release.
>> 2.  Get its name (karmic, lucid...).
>> 3.  Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
>> 4.  Use apt-get (or aptitude) to do a semi-manual upgrade, and hope
>>    for the best.  (This isn't an X11 system, so "Upgrade Manager",
>>    etc., is not in the picture.)
>>
>> Am I missing something?
>>
>> -- 
>> Rick Moen                    "Names of fictional places are  
>> capitalized:
>> rick at linuxmafia.com          Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc."
>>                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> Thanks all for the great feedback; 

"Feedback"?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that.  Are you
saying that as some sort of representative of the Ubuntu Project?  I'm a
little confused, because I wasn't giving feedback to anyone; I was
trying to ask my friend Jim Stockford a question.

> what I'm not sure about is why Ubuntu sysadmins would be upgrading 
> on every release.

Obviously:  In order to not be still running a 2006 system in late 2009.
The Debian framework on which Ubuntu is based is, as mentioned,
extremely capable of supporting a maintenance framework capable of
keeping a system a pre-decided amount of figurative distance (rawness)
away from the cutting edge of software development.  What I was asking
Jim was whether he knew of infrastructure within Ubuntu Server to make
that possible, as there is for Debian servers.

Since I run a bunch of Debian servers and one Ubuntu Server box, it
seemed extremely surprising to me that on the latter, only, upgrading
seemed to remain a manually initiated and overseen process with some
small degree of anxiety potential (i.e., worry about having to drop
everything and work to fix a broken production system).  It occurred to
me that I might be missing something, so I asked Jim, who seemed to have
some experience on the subject.

I'm inferring that you have no answer to my question.  You're instead
trying to tell me that I shouldn't want to do on Ubuntu Server what I
routinely do to great benefit on my Debian boxes.  You'll pardon me if
I'm not falling over myself in appreciation.



> Stability to me is the top priority on a server, especially a
> headless, no gui workhorse running key network services. 

I'm sorry, but you're lecturing _me_ on server priorities and
maintenance?  And who were you, again, son?

I should probably not comment further on that, since I'm likely to say
something I'll really regret.

-- 
Rick Moen             "The correct spelling is 'Mr. T.'  People who type out 
rick at linuxmafia.com   'Mister' are fools to be pitied."              
                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook



From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Thu Nov  5 20:01:23 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:01:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>


On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Michael Paric (mparic at compbizsolutions.com):
>
>>>
>>>
>>> So, my understanding is:  There's no automated mechanism for  
>>> smoothly
>>> moving Ubuntu Server from the current stable branch to further ones,
>>> right?  I have to:
>>>
>>> 1.  Find out there's been a new release.
>>> 2.  Get its name (karmic, lucid...).
>>> 3.  Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
>>> 4.  Use apt-get (or aptitude) to do a semi-manual upgrade, and hope
>>>   for the best.  (This isn't an X11 system, so "Upgrade Manager",
>>>   etc., is not in the picture.)
>>>
>>> Am I missing something?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Rick Moen                    "Names of fictional places are
>>> capitalized:
>>> rick at linuxmafia.com          Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc."
>>>                                                    --  
>>> FakeAPStylebook
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for the great feedback;
>
> "Feedback"?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that.  Are you
> saying that as some sort of representative of the Ubuntu Project?   
> I'm a
> little confused, because I wasn't giving feedback to anyone; I was
> trying to ask my friend Jim Stockford a question.
>
>> what I'm not sure about is why Ubuntu sysadmins would be upgrading
>> on every release.
>
> Obviously:  In order to not be still running a 2006 system in late  
> 2009.
> The Debian framework on which Ubuntu is based is, as mentioned,
> extremely capable of supporting a maintenance framework capable of
> keeping a system a pre-decided amount of figurative distance (rawness)
> away from the cutting edge of software development.  What I was asking
> Jim was whether he knew of infrastructure within Ubuntu Server to make
> that possible, as there is for Debian servers.
>
> Since I run a bunch of Debian servers and one Ubuntu Server box, it
> seemed extremely surprising to me that on the latter, only, upgrading
> seemed to remain a manually initiated and overseen process with some
> small degree of anxiety potential (i.e., worry about having to drop
> everything and work to fix a broken production system).  It occurred  
> to
> me that I might be missing something, so I asked Jim, who seemed to  
> have
> some experience on the subject.
>
> I'm inferring that you have no answer to my question.  You're instead
> trying to tell me that I shouldn't want to do on Ubuntu Server what I
> routinely do to great benefit on my Debian boxes.  You'll pardon me if
> I'm not falling over myself in appreciation.
>
>
>
>> Stability to me is the top priority on a server, especially a
>> headless, no gui workhorse running key network services.
>
> I'm sorry, but you're lecturing _me_ on server priorities and
> maintenance?  And who were you, again, son?
>
> I should probably not comment further on that, since I'm likely to say
> something I'll really regret.
>
> -- 
> Rick Moen             "The correct spelling is 'Mr. T.'  People who  
> type out
> rick at linuxmafia.com   'Mister' are fools to be pitied."
>                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



My apologies if I've somehow offended you; since I was the originator  
of the post I appreciate any and all responses. It wasn't an intended  
lecture, just engaging in a conversation about how different people  
administer their networks. If this list isn't the place to ask such  
questions and discuss different approaches to common problems, then  
I'll leave y'all to your "community". Thanks again.

--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric
mparic at compbizsolutions.com
www.compbizsolutions.com








From jim at well.com  Thu Nov  5 20:44:32 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:44:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1257482672.6511.128.camel@jim-laptop>


   micheal, your responses seem interesting, caused me 
some thought (a good thing). 
   rick, i'm running ubuntu server 9.04 and haven't 
faced the upgrade yet (i'm now working on getting 
laptops to 9.10). previously i was using CentOS and/or 
Whitebox for server hosts. 
   so bottom line is i don't know. the new sf-lug box 
is running debian with XEN; michael paoli and i will 
make the move together, and i'll ask him about the 
debian way. then i'll have to face my own server OS 
upgrade. 
   "hope for the best" is a worrisome phrase. 
   in a couple of weeks i will probably be posting 
rueful questions to this list as well as to the ubuntu 
server mailing list, and i won't forget your interest. 
   one tho't i've had is to clone the existing (small) 
file systems onto a laptop or small desktop machine 
that's lying around and put that in place; take the 
primary box offline then rebuild the 9.10 OS on the 
primary server host, then copy the files back on. a 
lot more work, but sidesteps the risk of some new, 
improved feature collapsing what i've got working: 
worst case, restore the image on the primary box and 
research some more. 

   as to that 3GB storage/ 64MB RAM box, wow. 

   best i can do for now. 
jim 



On Thu, 2009-11-05 at 20:01 -0800, Michael Paric wrote:
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Michael Paric (mparic at compbizsolutions.com):
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So, my understanding is:  There's no automated mechanism for  
> >>> smoothly
> >>> moving Ubuntu Server from the current stable branch to further ones,
> >>> right?  I have to:
> >>>
> >>> 1.  Find out there's been a new release.
> >>> 2.  Get its name (karmic, lucid...).
> >>> 3.  Edit /etc/apt/sources.list
> >>> 4.  Use apt-get (or aptitude) to do a semi-manual upgrade, and hope
> >>>   for the best.  (This isn't an X11 system, so "Upgrade Manager",
> >>>   etc., is not in the picture.)
> >>>
> >>> Am I missing something?
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> Rick Moen                    "Names of fictional places are
> >>> capitalized:
> >>> rick at linuxmafia.com          Narnia, Oz, San Francisco, etc."
> >>>                                                    --  
> >>> FakeAPStylebook
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> sf-lug mailing list
> >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks all for the great feedback;
> >
> > "Feedback"?  I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that.  Are you
> > saying that as some sort of representative of the Ubuntu Project?   
> > I'm a
> > little confused, because I wasn't giving feedback to anyone; I was
> > trying to ask my friend Jim Stockford a question.
> >
> >> what I'm not sure about is why Ubuntu sysadmins would be upgrading
> >> on every release.
> >
> > Obviously:  In order to not be still running a 2006 system in late  
> > 2009.
> > The Debian framework on which Ubuntu is based is, as mentioned,
> > extremely capable of supporting a maintenance framework capable of
> > keeping a system a pre-decided amount of figurative distance (rawness)
> > away from the cutting edge of software development.  What I was asking
> > Jim was whether he knew of infrastructure within Ubuntu Server to make
> > that possible, as there is for Debian servers.
> >
> > Since I run a bunch of Debian servers and one Ubuntu Server box, it
> > seemed extremely surprising to me that on the latter, only, upgrading
> > seemed to remain a manually initiated and overseen process with some
> > small degree of anxiety potential (i.e., worry about having to drop
> > everything and work to fix a broken production system).  It occurred  
> > to
> > me that I might be missing something, so I asked Jim, who seemed to  
> > have
> > some experience on the subject.
> >
> > I'm inferring that you have no answer to my question.  You're instead
> > trying to tell me that I shouldn't want to do on Ubuntu Server what I
> > routinely do to great benefit on my Debian boxes.  You'll pardon me if
> > I'm not falling over myself in appreciation.
> >
> >
> >
> >> Stability to me is the top priority on a server, especially a
> >> headless, no gui workhorse running key network services.
> >
> > I'm sorry, but you're lecturing _me_ on server priorities and
> > maintenance?  And who were you, again, son?
> >
> > I should probably not comment further on that, since I'm likely to say
> > something I'll really regret.
> >
> > -- 
> > Rick Moen             "The correct spelling is 'Mr. T.'  People who  
> > type out
> > rick at linuxmafia.com   'Mister' are fools to be pitied."
> >                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies if I've somehow offended you; since I was the originator  
> of the post I appreciate any and all responses. It wasn't an intended  
> lecture, just engaging in a conversation about how different people  
> administer their networks. If this list isn't the place to ask such  
> questions and discuss different approaches to common problems, then  
> I'll leave y'all to your "community". Thanks again.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Michael Paric
> mparic at compbizsolutions.com
> www.compbizsolutions.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Nov  5 20:44:55 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 20:44:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20091106044455.GM1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paric (mparic at compbizsolutions.com):

> My apologies if I've somehow offended you; since I was the originator of 
> the post I appreciate any and all responses. It wasn't an intended  
> lecture, just engaging in a conversation about how different people  
> administer their networks. If this list isn't the place to ask such  
> questions and discuss different approaches to common problems, then I'll 
> leave y'all to your "community". Thanks again.

You can say anything you please, subject to the pleasure of Jim
Stockford and LX_Rudis, the listadmins.  I'm not the listadmin; I'm just
the poor bastard who pays for and administers the server on which I host
this mailing list for free.

But while I am on it:  

> Sure, RHEL/CentOS and the last Ubuntu LTS release may have older
> kernels and packages, but is it really necessary to have your network
> servers running the latest (and sometimes *not* the greatest)
> versions? For the desktop, sure, you  probably want the latest
> wireless, graphics, disk drivers, but is any of that is necessary in
> a server environment? From what I've read on the Ubuntu site, they've
> spent a good deal of time making sure an "apt-get dist-upgrade" from
> one LTS version to the next is relatively smooth, especially since
> you're not dealing with all the cutting-edge drivers and gui features
> that play havoc with the system.

Er, well, to remind you:

What SVLUG then-VP Micah Dowty saddled me with (on the Linode host
that now is www.svlug.org) was _not_ an LTS release, as no such beast
then existed.  To reiterate, he installed 5.04 Hoary Hedgehog, released
in March 2005.  

The first _LTS_ release was 6.06 Dapper Drake, released 2006-06-01, with
optional paid support available for the Ubuntu Server variant for five
years.   The next was 8.04 Hardy Heron, released 2008-04-24 with
optional paid support available for Ubuntu Server for five years.  The
next one will be 10.04 Lucid Lynx with optional paid support available
for Ubuntu Server for five years.

So, ignoring the fact that I _didn't have_ an LTS version, for starters,
and that such a concept wouldn't even have existed until two releases
later, let's imagine that I _did_ have an LTS release.  Let's imagine
that I'm perfectly OK with running a server with critical software
that's two years obsolete (albeit presumably with backported security
patches), so that I can't have, for example, a modern version of
MoinMoin or ikiwiki or OpenJDK without building my own local package.

Let's grant all of that.  The same question that I asked Jim still
remains:

Is it really true that there's no alternative to personally noticing
that 6.06LTS has been obsoleted by 8.04LTS, manually editing all
"dapper" references in /etc/apt/sources.list to "hardy", and running the
upgrade semi-manually with spare time available in case something
crucial blows up?   Why isn't there?

And, by the way, "relatively smooth" doesn't cut it with production
servers.  If it's only "relatively", then I might as well be runing
RHEL/CentOS and doing reinstalls every couple of years.

-- 
Rick Moen             "The plural of Blackberry is 'Blackberries.'  The plural 
rick at linuxmafia.com   of Blackberry users is 'Dingleberries.'"
                                                           -- FakeAPStylebook



From akshay at akshayshah.org  Fri Nov  6 08:04:31 2009
From: akshay at akshayshah.org (Akshay Shah)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 08:04:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <20091106044455.GM1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106044455.GM1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091106160431.GA3315@archon.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>

On 05 Nov 2009, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>Is it really true that there's no alternative to personally noticing
>that 6.06LTS has been obsoleted by 8.04LTS, manually editing all
>"dapper" references in /etc/apt/sources.list to "hardy", and running the
>upgrade semi-manually with spare time available in case something
>crucial blows up?   Why isn't there?

I'm only a hobbyist and have never even attempted setting up something
as production-y as a headless server, but I think there's an official
upgrade tool for exactly the situation you're describing.  I moved off
Ubuntu a while ago, so I'm a little rusty - please bear with me.

Update your package repository:
   sudo aptitude update
Upgrade most packages:
   sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
Upgrade everything else:
   sudo aptitude full-upgrade
Install the console update utility:
   sudo aptitude install update-manager-core
Upgrade to the latest release:
   sudo do-release-upgrade

 From what I remember, do-release-upgrade has a lot of options to
control exactly which release/development version you upgrade to.  And
if you're really nervous, I think apt-listbugs works with
do-release-upgrade, but I've never tried it.  Again, I'm only a
desktop user - this approach may have some obvious flaw, but I thought
I'd pipe up anyways.

Cheers,
Akshay



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov  6 11:15:20 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 11:15:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <20091106160431.GA3315@archon.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106044455.GM1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091106160431.GA3315@archon.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20091106191520.GR1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Akshay Shah (akshay at akshayshah.org):

> I'm only a hobbyist and have never even attempted setting up something
> as production-y as a headless server, but I think there's an official
> upgrade tool for exactly the situation you're describing.  I moved off
> Ubuntu a while ago, so I'm a little rusty - please bear with me.

Akshay, thank you.  I had not known about the "do-release-upgrade"
tool, which appears to query the Ubuntu package mirrors and find out 
whether there's a new release, and, if so, conduct additional package
fetches to migrate the system to that new target.  (Thus, you don't 
actually have to go about manually editing "dapper" to "hardy" in
/etc/apt/sources.list, etc.)

I'm probably missing a bunch of angles about that Ubuntu-produced
utility because I'm only now hearing about it, but I gather that its
behaviour is controlled by editing /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades .  
You can set "Prompt=lts" to make the tool reorient the system to only
new LTS releases, or "Prompt=normal" to reorient to all new releases
rather than just LTS ones.

I still find it a bit odd that they never implemented anything like 
Debian's "stable" symlink on the package mirror sites (not to mention
"testing" and "unstable"), but, hey, let's see how things work.


FWIW, over the years it's been available so far, I've remained 
unimpressed by aptitude:  Its performance is terrible, its default
installation of Recommends packages (unless you manually jigger the
config files to override that behaviour) is annoying, and I find the 
alleged advantage of replacing several other tools at once (deborphan,
debfoster, etc.) a poor justifications for tool bloat.




From jim at well.com  Fri Nov  6 11:15:57 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 11:15:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux certification study group today, friday, 20091106,
	at	noisebridge
Message-ID: <1257534957.6511.154.camel@jim-laptop>


   today, friday 2091106, 3 pm to 6 pm, linux 
certification study group at noisebridge, 2169 
mission st near 18th. 
   the linux certification study group focuses 
on Red Hat as well as generic linux system 
administration skills with an eye to passing 
both the Red Hat and the LPI exams. 
   this group has been meeting every tuesday 
and friday from 3 to 6 PM at noisebridge. 





From akshay at akshayshah.org  Fri Nov  6 12:43:51 2009
From: akshay at akshayshah.org (Akshay Shah)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:43:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Server Preferences
In-Reply-To: <20091106191520.GR1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <DF34CBDC-30AC-4CB4-A9EF-661F30D7F595@COMPBIZSOLUTIONS.COM>
	<1257471140.6511.97.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091106021649.GX21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<BC0D297B-52C2-4FAB-A588-2AEC24C6ACD9@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106034559.GL1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<1A23681C-D044-495B-BF73-5320BC46C707@compbizsolutions.com>
	<20091106044455.GM1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091106160431.GA3315@archon.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>
	<20091106191520.GR1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091106204351.GA5595@archon.hsd1.ca.comcast.net>

On 06 Nov 2009, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>Akshay, thank you.  I had not known about the "do-release-upgrade"
>tool, which appears to query the Ubuntu package mirrors and find out
>whether there's a new release, and, if so, conduct additional package
>fetches to migrate the system to that new target.  (Thus, you don't
>actually have to go about manually editing "dapper" to "hardy" in
>/etc/apt/sources.list, etc.)

Glad I could help.  I think that do-release-upgrade does a little more
than just updating your apt sources and upgrading packages - I think it
also updates usplash to xsplash, implements any changes in the boot
scripts, etc.  Sadly, those changes probably make it more error-prone,
too.

Akshay



From john_re at fastmail.us  Sat Nov  7 04:02:30 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 04:02:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Nov 7 TODAY & Nov 22 - Join Global FreeSW GNU(Linux) HW
 Culture meeting via VOIP - BerkeleyTIP GlobalTIP - For Forwarding
Message-ID: <1257595350.3067.1344041105@webmail.messagingengine.com>

CONTENTS: Meeting days/times & Howto - Mark your calendar's dates;
Videos; Hot topics; Opportunities; Announcement Flyers; New webpages

=====
Come join in with the Global Free SW HW & Culture community at the
BerkeleyTIP/GlobalTIP meeting, via VOIP.

Two meetings this month:
Sat Nov 7,  12Noon - 3PM Pacific Time (=UTC-8)
Sun Nov 22, 12Noon - 3PM Pacific Time (=UTC-8)
Mark your calendars, 1st Sat, 3rd Sun every month.
  {Note: 4th Sunday this November, to give 2 week spacing.}

Join online #berkeleytip on irc.freenode.net
& we'll help you get your voip HW & SW working:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
Or come to the FreeSpeech Cafe at UC Berkeley in person meeting.

Join the global mailing list
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

I hope to see you there. :)


=====  Talk Videos for November 2009:
Django Development  - Richard Kiss, Eddy Mulyono, Glen Jarvis, Simeon
Franklin; BayPiggies
Python for scientific research, discussion with Guido van Rossum;
UCBSciPy
Netbooks - Michael Gorven, Dave Mackie, and Jonathan Carter; CLUG
Japan Linux Symposium Keynote, Linus Torvalds & Jim Zemlin; Linux
Foundation

http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Download & watch them before the meetings, discuss at the meetings.

Thanks to all the Speakers, Videographers, & Groups! :)
[Record your local meeting! Put the video online, & email me for
inclusion for next month. :) ]

===== Hot topics: Ubuntu 9.10 - Problems? Fixes? Upgrade? Install?
Freeswitch VOIP server - setup for BTIP
Flyers & outreach to UCBerkeley.
Outreach to other UC campuses next semester.


=====  Opportunities - Learn new, or increase your job skills, &/or
volunteer & help the community:  Set up any of: a BTIP Mailing List, web
server/site, Freeswitch VOIP server, or Virtual Private Network & SSL


===== Announcement Flyers:  Print & Post them in your community.  4/5
available - Freedom, Karmic Koala, Free Culture, SciPy, OLPC. See bottom
of page:  http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


===== New BTIP Webpages @ http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
UC Campus local groups; Free Hardware; System Administration;
Announcement Flyers; Opportunities


For Forwarding - You are invited to forward this announcement wherever
it would be appreciated.



From bob.remeika at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 12:35:13 2009
From: bob.remeika at gmail.com (Bob Remeika)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 12:35:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetup?
Message-ID: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've never been to a sf linux user group meeting before and was interested
in going.  When and where is the next meeting?

Thanks,
-- 
Bob Remeika
http://bobremeika.com
http://d-rails.org
http://cometdproject.dojotoolkit.org/
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Nov  7 13:05:23 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 13:05:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetup?
In-Reply-To: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091107210523.GM21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bob Remeika (bob.remeika at gmail.com):

> I've never been to a sf linux user group meeting before and was interested
> in going.

Cool!  I expect and hope you'll enjoy it.

>  When and where is the next meeting?

Here, let me work that out for you (the ":r!" incantation being a way of
showing my having done shell escapes from vi's colon command prompt to
bash, and read the result of the commands back into the buffer to
include in this message):

:r! lynx -dump http://www.sf-lug.org/ | grep -A 3  "first Sunday"

   SF-LUG meetings are the first Sunday of the month, 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM,
   and third Monday of each month, 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM. Meetings are
   usually in San Francisco at the Cafe Enchante on Geary Boulevard at
   26th Avenue.

:r! cal -3 

    October 2009         November 2009         December 2009      
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  
             1  2  3   1  2  3  4  5  6  7         1  2  3  4  5
 4  5  6  7  8  9 10   8  9 10 11 12 13 14   6  7  8  9 10 11 12
11 12 13 14 15 16 17  15 16 17 18 19 20 21  13 14 15 16 17 18 19
18 19 20 21 22 23 24  22 23 24 25 26 27 28  20 21 22 23 24 25 26
25 26 27 28 29 30 31  29 30                 27 28 29 30 31      
                                                                
The rest is left as a (very small) exercise for the reader.  ;->

Yes, the guys who maintain the Web site do need to update it, but, 
really, it's really not that hard to figure out when the next first
Sunday or third Monday is going to be.   /usr/bin/cal is your 
friend.

Hey, Web page maintainers:   Might I make a modest suggestion for site
maintenance?  It's item #11 on
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Linux_PR/newlug.html :


11. Design your Web page to be forgiving of deferred maintenance.

Much as we'd like our LUGs' "upcoming events" and other time-sensitive
information to be always current, it isn't going to happen: Sometimes,
you don't re-check and update them for a week or two. Therefore, always
list _several_ months' upcoming events. (You know when they'll be because
you have a meeting-date formula, right?) That way, when you're
unavailable for Web-page maintenance for two months running, the Web
page will still include current meeting information.

Somehow, my local LUGs' webmasters seem resistant to that simple idea,
with the result that most list only one upcoming meeting at a time,
which, for three quarters of the month, because of the inevitable
deferred maintenance, ends up being last month's date.

The whole point of listing specific upcoming meeting dates is to make it
unnecessary for casual visitors to work out when the next (say) 2nd
Tuesday will be, by doing it for them. But that effort is wasted when
the only meetings shown are already past: It makes new LUG members that
much less likely, and additionally may lead some to think your LUG is
now defunct.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 15:51:46 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 15:51:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetup?
In-Reply-To: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040911071551w55aaba5dvc03737fc2d1be87f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Bob Remeika <bob.remeika at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've never been to a sf linux user group meeting before and was interested
> in going.  When and where is the next meeting?
>

Here is info on the SF-LUG meetings

http://sf-lug.com/

Also, there are SF-LUG meetings every Wednesday at Noisebridge at 2169
Mission Street between 17th and 18th.  I highly recommend these meetings.
Noisebridge is an incredible resource, and Noisebridge is basically open
24/7.  Here is the Noisebridge link:

https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge

There is also the BALUG meeting once per month:

http://www.balug.org/

Please let me know if you have any questions
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From jim at well.com  Sat Nov  7 16:44:18 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:44:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetup?
In-Reply-To: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1257641058.6489.23.camel@jim-laptop>


Hi, 
   the next sf-lug meeting is monday, 20091116, at 
the cafe enchante on geary blvd at 26th ave in san 
francisco. bring questions, a machine, whatever you 
like. you'll recognize us easily. and welcome. 
jim 


On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 12:35 -0800, Bob Remeika wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I've never been to a sf linux user group meeting before and was
> interested in going.  When and where is the next meeting?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> -- 
> Bob Remeika
> http://bobremeika.com
> http://d-rails.org
> http://cometdproject.dojotoolkit.org/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sat Nov  7 17:00:31 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:00:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetup?
In-Reply-To: <20091107210523.GM21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c7245d8c0911071235i68ec68abv4356944976297c51@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091107210523.GM21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1257642031.6489.27.camel@jim-laptop>


number 11, done: 
http://www.sf-lug.org 

   nice to see we seem to have implemented most 
of your point. i'll reread and contemplate. 
with thanks, 
jim 


On Sat, 2009-11-07 at 13:05 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Bob Remeika (bob.remeika at gmail.com):
> 
> > I've never been to a sf linux user group meeting before and was interested
> > in going.
> 
> Cool!  I expect and hope you'll enjoy it.
> 
> >  When and where is the next meeting?
> 
> Here, let me work that out for you (the ":r!" incantation being a way of
> showing my having done shell escapes from vi's colon command prompt to
> bash, and read the result of the commands back into the buffer to
> include in this message):
> 
> :r! lynx -dump http://www.sf-lug.org/ | grep -A 3  "first Sunday"
> 
>    SF-LUG meetings are the first Sunday of the month, 11:00 AM to 1:00 PM,
>    and third Monday of each month, 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM. Meetings are
>    usually in San Francisco at the Cafe Enchante on Geary Boulevard at
>    26th Avenue.
> 
> :r! cal -3 
> 
>     October 2009         November 2009         December 2009      
> Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa  
>              1  2  3   1  2  3  4  5  6  7         1  2  3  4  5
>  4  5  6  7  8  9 10   8  9 10 11 12 13 14   6  7  8  9 10 11 12
> 11 12 13 14 15 16 17  15 16 17 18 19 20 21  13 14 15 16 17 18 19
> 18 19 20 21 22 23 24  22 23 24 25 26 27 28  20 21 22 23 24 25 26
> 25 26 27 28 29 30 31  29 30                 27 28 29 30 31      
>                                                                 
> The rest is left as a (very small) exercise for the reader.  ;->
> 
> Yes, the guys who maintain the Web site do need to update it, but, 
> really, it's really not that hard to figure out when the next first
> Sunday or third Monday is going to be.   /usr/bin/cal is your 
> friend.
> 
> Hey, Web page maintainers:   Might I make a modest suggestion for site
> maintenance?  It's item #11 on
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Linux_PR/newlug.html :
> 
> 
> 11. Design your Web page to be forgiving of deferred maintenance.
> 
> Much as we'd like our LUGs' "upcoming events" and other time-sensitive
> information to be always current, it isn't going to happen: Sometimes,
> you don't re-check and update them for a week or two. Therefore, always
> list _several_ months' upcoming events. (You know when they'll be because
> you have a meeting-date formula, right?) That way, when you're
> unavailable for Web-page maintenance for two months running, the Web
> page will still include current meeting information.
> 
> Somehow, my local LUGs' webmasters seem resistant to that simple idea,
> with the result that most list only one upcoming meeting at a time,
> which, for three quarters of the month, because of the inevitable
> deferred maintenance, ends up being last month's date.
> 
> The whole point of listing specific upcoming meeting dates is to make it
> unnecessary for casual visitors to work out when the next (say) 2nd
> Tuesday will be, by doing it for them. But that effort is wasted when
> the only meetings shown are already past: It makes new LUG members that
> much less likely, and additionally may lead some to think your LUG is
> now defunct.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  9 15:25:39 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:25:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Laptop as cable modem? Possible
Message-ID: <116329.96668.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I have an old laptop. I am stuck with Comcast Internet service. Is it possible that I can turn an old laptop into a Cable Modem? I'm not sure how to connect the Coax to the laptop, either?

Vince
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 19:34:24 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 19:34:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
Message-ID: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is going to attempt to
watch this movie tomorrow using Linux, but we have not been able to watch it
thus far, and I'm not sure why.  Would someone please tell me if you are
able to watch "Becoming Human" part one here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html

I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does not play for some
reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the most recent version of Flash running.
I am using Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of codecs installed.

Thanks in advance.
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From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Tue Nov 10 00:39:34 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:39:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>

>
> hi,
>
> One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is going to  
> attempt to watch this movie tomorrow using Linux, but we have not  
> been able to watch it thus far, and I'm not sure why.  Would someone  
> please tell me if you are able to watch "Becoming Human" part one  
> here:
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
>
> I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does not play for  
> some reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the most recent version of  
> Flash running.  I am using Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of  
> codecs installed.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/

Christian,
I was able to get it to play the full-length show on Karmic, however  
it seems that Jaunty (and probably versions below it) even with the  
official Adobe Flash player has problems with their embedded ad  
tracking plug-in from ad.doublclick.net and the JavaScript that  
displays it; it hangs trying to connect and never finishes. Even tried  
it with Opera but same result. Saw lots of posts but no real solutions  
other than upgrading to Karmic. The previews do not have the ad  
tracking which is why they play and the full-length show does not.

Michael








From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 00:55:04 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:55:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
	<B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>

9.10 karmic 32-bit worked for me.  I've run this command since installing:*

*
*sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras*

I also went here to download and install the newest flashplayer from Adobe
in .deb format:

http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

Hope this helps

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Michael Paric <mparic at compbizsolutions.com
> wrote:

>
>> hi,
>>
>> One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is going to attempt
>> to watch this movie tomorrow using Linux, but we have not been able to watch
>> it thus far, and I'm not sure why.  Would someone please tell me if you are
>> able to watch "Becoming Human" part one here:
>>
>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
>>
>> I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does not play for some
>> reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the most recent version of Flash running.
>>  I am using Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of codecs installed.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
> Christian,
> I was able to get it to play the full-length show on Karmic, however it
> seems that Jaunty (and probably versions below it) even with the official
> Adobe Flash player has problems with their embedded ad tracking plug-in from
> ad.doublclick.net and the JavaScript that displays it; it hangs trying to
> connect and never finishes. Even tried it with Opera but same result. Saw
> lots of posts but no real solutions other than upgrading to Karmic. The
> previews do not have the ad tracking which is why they play and the
> full-length show does not.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 00:58:06 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:58:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
	<B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>
	<5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911100058s1b49516oe2e74b338d55d5a6@mail.gmail.com>

You might check to see if you have too many versions of flash installed.
This could be a helpful command if you're using Adobe's version:

*sudo apt-get remove --purge flashplugin-nonfree*

On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Kai Chang <kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>wrote:

> 9.10 karmic 32-bit worked for me.  I've run this command since installing:
> *
>
> *
> *sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras*
>
> I also went here to download and install the newest flashplayer from Adobe
> in .deb format:
>
> http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
>
> Hope this helps
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Michael Paric <
> mparic at compbizsolutions.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is going to attempt
>>> to watch this movie tomorrow using Linux, but we have not been able to watch
>>> it thus far, and I'm not sure why.  Would someone please tell me if you are
>>> able to watch "Becoming Human" part one here:
>>>
>>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
>>>
>>> I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does not play for some
>>> reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the most recent version of Flash running.
>>>  I am using Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of codecs installed.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>
>>
>> Christian,
>> I was able to get it to play the full-length show on Karmic, however it
>> seems that Jaunty (and probably versions below it) even with the official
>> Adobe Flash player has problems with their embedded ad tracking plug-in from
>> ad.doublclick.net and the JavaScript that displays it; it hangs trying to
>> connect and never finishes. Even tried it with Opera but same result. Saw
>> lots of posts but no real solutions other than upgrading to Karmic. The
>> previews do not have the ad tracking which is why they play and the
>> full-length show does not.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From micahflee at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:21:25 2009
From: micahflee at gmail.com (Micah Lee)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:21:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <5200c28f0911100058s1b49516oe2e74b338d55d5a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
	<B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>
	<5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5200c28f0911100058s1b49516oe2e74b338d55d5a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7aa6fa850911101221t20226d60y7d63a366db98c3af@mail.gmail.com>

I've noticed that several uber-proprietary Flash-based streaming video
players basically suck and don't work with Firefox and Adobe Flash in Linux,
but do in Windows or OS X. It seems like most TV networks (ABC, NBC, PBS,
etc) decide to do an awful job at reinventing the wheel when it comes to
playing streaming video in Flash. When all else fails, you could resort to a
Windows virtual machine.

Hopefully everyone will soon start using the HTML5 <video> tag, and that
should fix all of these problems.

Micah


On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Kai Chang <kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>wrote:

> You might check to see if you have too many versions of flash installed.
> This could be a helpful command if you're using Adobe's version:
>
> *sudo apt-get remove --purge flashplugin-nonfree*
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Kai Chang <kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> 9.10 karmic 32-bit worked for me.  I've run this command since installing:
>> *
>>
>> *
>> *sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras*
>>
>> I also went here to download and install the newest flashplayer from Adobe
>> in .deb format:
>>
>> http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
>>
>> Hope this helps
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Michael Paric <
>> mparic at compbizsolutions.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> hi,
>>>>
>>>> One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is going to attempt
>>>> to watch this movie tomorrow using Linux, but we have not been able to watch
>>>> it thus far, and I'm not sure why.  Would someone please tell me if you are
>>>> able to watch "Becoming Human" part one here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
>>>>
>>>> I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does not play for some
>>>> reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the most recent version of Flash running.
>>>>  I am using Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of codecs installed.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>> Christian,
>>> I was able to get it to play the full-length show on Karmic, however it
>>> seems that Jaunty (and probably versions below it) even with the official
>>> Adobe Flash player has problems with their embedded ad tracking plug-in from
>>> ad.doublclick.net and the JavaScript that displays it; it hangs trying
>>> to connect and never finishes. Even tried it with Opera but same result. Saw
>>> lots of posts but no real solutions other than upgrading to Karmic. The
>>> previews do not have the ad tracking which is why they play and the
>>> full-length show does not.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From johnlowry at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 12:32:41 2009
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:32:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <7aa6fa850911101221t20226d60y7d63a366db98c3af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>	<B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>	<5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>	<5200c28f0911100058s1b49516oe2e74b338d55d5a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7aa6fa850911101221t20226d60y7d63a366db98c3af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AF9CDE9.1050906@gmail.com>

I also run into this sometimes with Adobe's Flash. When this happens I
try gnash, which has actually worked for me more often with big flash sites.

Micah Lee wrote:
> I've noticed that several uber-proprietary Flash-based streaming video
> players basically suck and don't work with Firefox and Adobe Flash in
> Linux, but do in Windows or OS X. It seems like most TV networks (ABC,
> NBC, PBS, etc) decide to do an awful job at reinventing the wheel when
> it comes to playing streaming video in Flash. When all else fails, you
> could resort to a Windows virtual machine.
> 
> Hopefully everyone will soon start using the HTML5 <video> tag, and that
> should fix all of these problems.
> 
> Micah
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Kai Chang <kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
> <mailto:kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     You might check to see if you have too many versions of flash
>     installed.  This could be a helpful command if you're using Adobe's
>     version:
> 
>     *sudo apt-get remove --/purge/ flashplugin-nonfree*
> 
>     On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Kai Chang
>     <kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com <mailto:kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>         9.10 karmic 32-bit worked for me.  I've run this command since
>         installing:*
> 
>         *
>         *sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restricted-extras*
> 
>         I also went here to download and install the newest flashplayer
>         from Adobe in .deb format:
> 
>         http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/
> 
>         Hope this helps
> 
> 
>         On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Michael Paric
>         <mparic at compbizsolutions.com
>         <mailto:mparic at compbizsolutions.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>                 hi,
> 
>                 One of the schools this LUG is supporting with Linux is
>                 going to attempt to watch this movie tomorrow using
>                 Linux, but we have not been able to watch it thus far,
>                 and I'm not sure why.  Would someone please tell me if
>                 you are able to watch "Becoming Human" part one here:
> 
>                 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/beta/evolution/becoming-human-part-1.html
> 
>                 I was able to watch a preview, but the full movie does
>                 not play for some reason.  Not sure why.  I do have the
>                 most recent version of Flash running.  I am using
>                 Jaunty, and I also have a wide variety of codecs installed.
> 
>                 Thanks in advance.
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 sf-lug mailing list
>                 sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>                 http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>                 Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 
>             Christian,
>             I was able to get it to play the full-length show on Karmic,
>             however it seems that Jaunty (and probably versions below
>             it) even with the official Adobe Flash player has problems
>             with their embedded ad tracking plug-in from
>             ad.doublclick.net <http://ad.doublclick.net> and the
>             JavaScript that displays it; it hangs trying to connect and
>             never finishes. Even tried it with Opera but same result.
>             Saw lots of posts but no real solutions other than upgrading
>             to Karmic. The previews do not have the ad tracking which is
>             why they play and the full-length show does not.
> 
>             Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>             _______________________________________________
>             sf-lug mailing list
>             sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>             http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>             Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>         -- 
>         Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
>         <mailto:kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
>     <mailto:kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com>
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     sf-lug mailing list
>     sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>     http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>     Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 10 13:31:56 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:31:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Can't seem to watch this movie
In-Reply-To: <7aa6fa850911101221t20226d60y7d63a366db98c3af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040911091934p6bbc3d5lffbc4f6ad96f4504@mail.gmail.com>
	<B0F55522-DB9E-4ECB-9474-45DDA15CE7C4@compbizsolutions.com>
	<5200c28f0911100055s3ba20281i587ba61f0dd57c9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<5200c28f0911100058s1b49516oe2e74b338d55d5a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<7aa6fa850911101221t20226d60y7d63a366db98c3af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091110213156.GH21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Micah Lee (micahflee at gmail.com):

> I've noticed that several uber-proprietary Flash-based streaming video
> players basically suck and don't work with Firefox and Adobe Flash in Linux,
> but do in Windows or OS X.

The problem is invariably not the Flash (as sucky and deliberately
underdocumented[1] as Flash is), but the Javascript by which the site
and its money-men attempt to monitor and control the user.  Long term, 
your best option is downloading the Flash file and playing that locally.

Of course, the money-men don't want you to do that, so they do their
best to obscure the information required.  Ancillary software such as 
Flash Video Resources Downloader (http://max.subfighter.com/flv/) and
the various related GreaseMonkey scripts help.

-- 
Rick Moen              "Use 'login' for the noun, 'log in' for the action, 
rick at linuxmafia.com    and 'Loggins' when you're footloose in the danger zone."
                                                     -- FakeAPStylebook



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Wed Nov 11 01:31:45 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:31:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Free": Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) (& OSD)
Message-ID: <20091111013145.21061vg01nv2s7tw@webmail.rawbw.com>

Much thanks for mentioning the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG)
again.  Although I'm quite familiar with the DFSG, you caused me to
realize that the DFSG really embodies what I tend to think of as far as
what "free" (as in "open source" and freedom) software is ... or at
least ought to be.  I think the DFSG does a superb job of capturing what
"free" software is and should be.

For anyone who hasn't yet read it, highly recommended reading:
http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines

references/excerpts:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q3/006894.html

Quoting Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com):

> Quoting Grant Bowman (grantbow at gmail.com):

> Anyway, FWIW, I vastly prefer DFSG (the Debian Free Software Guidelines)
> as a criterion for "free software" over anything FSF has ever offered.
> E.g., what used to be called the Four Freedoms Essay and lately has been
> styled the "Free Software Definition" strikes me as functionally useless
> for evaluating licences, on account of excessive vagueness.  So, I
> consider "free software licences" to mean "licences satisfying DFSG".

> > What about those licenses that are FSF certified but not OSI
> > certified?

> Basically meaningless trivia revolving around a couple of licences
> (or maybe as few as one licence) that nobody really cares about to begin
> with.  And _also_ irrelevant from my perspective to start with, because
> I consider DFSG the relevant criterion as to whether a software licence
> is "free".  Since DFSG happens to be almost precisely identical to the
> OSD (OSD having been created by slightly modifying DFSG to remove Debian
> references), I personally consider there to be _zero_ difference between
> the set of free software licences and that of open source licences.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Nov 11 02:10:19 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:10:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Free": Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG) (& OSD)
In-Reply-To: <20091111013145.21061vg01nv2s7tw@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20091111013145.21061vg01nv2s7tw@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091111101019.GP21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Much thanks for mentioning the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG)
> again.  Although I'm quite familiar with the DFSG, you caused me to
> realize that the DFSG really embodies what I tend to think of as far as
> what "free" (as in "open source" and freedom) software is ... or at
> least ought to be.  I think the DFSG does a superb job of capturing what
> "free" software is and should be.

Hey, you're very welcome.   But most of the thanks should go to Bruce
Perens, who drafted the DFSG _and_ later created the Open Source
Definition closely based on them.

When one has spent time trying to evaluate software licences for
freeness, the existence of a really clear, good set of criteria is 
extremely useful, I've found -- and DFSG is the best thing there is,
IMO, for denoting what "free software" is in an operative sense.




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 13:25:59 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:25:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ubuntu Karmic Koala Release Party & Call for Participation
Message-ID: <683785120911111325s6cfc265apb55fd2aee659758f@mail.gmail.com>

All are invited to the official San Francisco release party for Karmic
Koala, the latest release of Ubuntu Linux, tomorrow (Thursday November
12) at the DNA Lounge in SoMa, in conjunction with the SF leg of the
Data Beez West Coast Chip Tunes Tour.  We're hosting an Installfest
starting at 7 (bring your laptop, get Linux), with performances
starting at 8 from chip tune musicians of 8BITPEOPLES and MP3DEATH
including CRASHFASTER, MINUS BABY, STARPAUSE, and TRASH80, plus
visuals from PARIS, DANIEL REHN, and JYK as FX6EX6. Also in attendance
will be special guests Orb SWARM, a large-scale kinetic art project
running on Linux.

WE NEED VOLUNTEERS for the Installfest! You don't need advanced Linux
knowledge for this; just be there to hand-hold users through the quick
& painless Karmic install (what could possibly go wrong), chat about
Linux, play LAN games, etc.  Admission to the show is FREE before 8
for all Installfest participants; just bring a laptop or email
KoalaVolunteers at gmail.com. Regular admission is $7 advance, $12 door.

http://modernhacker.com/shows
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4880678



From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 14:21:20 2009
From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:21:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to victimize our 	Elderly loved ones
Message-ID: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>

I am concerned about this project/company:

http://www.discount-age.co.uk/simplicity_computers/
BBC Article Here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8352606.stm

They are selling computers preloaded with Linux, non-free Sun Java
JRE, and the non-free "Eldy" interface.

The non-free "Eldy" software is a central selling point of the system,
making it clearly a derived work - meaning that, under the terms of
the GNU GPL, the end result itself must be licensed under the GPL.

This is not the case, however. Eldy is non-free software, as is Sun Java JRE.

You can download a .deb for Eldy from here:
http://linuxforelderly.wordpress.com/

If you look at the .deb's "control" file, it self-identifies as
non-free software, and has non-free software (Sun Java) as a
dependency.

If you play with the Eldy interface, you will see that it has a
locked-in association with a specific e-mail and chat protocol.
Currently, using that e-mail and IM provider is gratis, but that can
change at any time.

Essentially, in addition to my GPL concerns, this is also my concern:
After a target user (the slow-learning elderly person) invests time
and energy in learning the system, the company can decide at any time
to start charging $100/month or whatever figure they wish for the
continued use of their e-mail and IM. The target user may feel s/he
has no choice but to pay, as they may feel reliant on Eldy to continue
e-mailing and chatting with their loved ones.

As Eldy is non-free software, community efforts to break Eldy's
reliance on one specific e-mail/IM provider will not be possible. If
you want to check your e-mail using eldy, you MUST use them as the
e-mail provider.

ubuntuforums.org discussion here, if anyone wants to skim:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1322661 (i am "earthpigg")

Are my concerns reasonable, or am I off the mark? Should I report this
to the FSF?


Regards,

Chris Mason
http://sites.google.com/site/masonux/



From nbs at sonic.net  Wed Nov 11 14:36:03 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:36:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation [...]
In-Reply-To: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091111223603.GA28558@sonic.net>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 02:21:20PM -0800, Chris Mason wrote:
> The non-free "Eldy" software is a central selling point of the system,
> making it clearly a derived work - meaning that, under the terms of
> the GNU GPL, the end result itself must be licensed under the GPL.

Huh?

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Nov 11 14:51:07 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:51:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our  Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091111225107.GZ21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Chris Mason (mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com):

> I am concerned about this project/company:
> 
> http://www.discount-age.co.uk/simplicity_computers/
> BBC Article Here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8352606.stm
> 
> They are selling computers preloaded with Linux, non-free Sun Java
> JRE, and the non-free "Eldy" interface.
> 
> The non-free "Eldy" software is a central selling point of the system,
> making it clearly a derived work - meaning that, under the terms of
> the GNU GPL, the end result itself must be licensed under the GPL.

As Bill said, huh?

I don't think the term "derivative work" (which is the correct term in 
copyright law, not "derived work") means what you think it means.

Also, I think you're a bit confused about what effect copyright violation 
produces, in case where actual violation exists -- which it pretty
clearly does not, here, unless you have some specific reason to think
'Eldy' is a derivative of GPLed third-party code that you haven't yet
mentioned.

Let's supposed that I write work A and issue an instance of it under GPL
v. 2 or 3.  Someone else comes along, creating and distributing a
derivative of my work under terms that don't convey all of the rights
I've specified.  

My licence terms predicated the permission to create/distribute
derivatives on conveying those rights to further recipients.  So, the
second coder has committed copyright violation, which is a tort.  
Under tort law, he/she might get enjoined from distribution, and
might end up getting ordered to pay me damages for the violation
(especially if I registered my copyright at the Library of Congress
Copyright Office).  However, nothing obliges him/her to "license under
the GPL" his work:  That is not among my available remedies as an
infringed copyright owner.


> Essentially, in addition to my GPL concerns, this is also my concern:
> After a target user (the slow-learning elderly person) invests time
> and energy in learning the system, the company can decide at any time
> to start charging $100/month or whatever figure they wish for the
> continued use of their e-mail and IM. The target user may feel s/he
> has no choice but to pay, as they may feel reliant on Eldy to continue
> e-mailing and chatting with their loved ones.

Indeed.  This is an excellent reason to be wary of proprietary code and
protocols.

> Are my concerns reasonable, or am I off the mark? Should I report this
> to the FSF?

Your second concern is quite reasonable.  Your first concern -- the
legal allegation -- appears to be based on a factual error.




From jim at well.com  Wed Nov 11 17:49:11 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:49:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.com web site host being swapped out
Message-ID: <1257990551.6420.7.camel@jim-laptop>


   the machine that hosts the http://www.sf-lug.com 
web site is being swapped out this evening (wednesday 
20091111) for a replacement machine. the web site 
will, therefore, be dark for a while until the new 
machine comes up and the new IP address is propagated 
throughout the DNS system. 
   the http://www.sf-lug.org web site is hosted on a 
different machine at a different location (and 
different ip address) and will not be affected. 
jim 





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Nov 12 12:04:56 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 12:04:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS (Re: questions and thanks)
In-Reply-To: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>

You can also ask on the SF-LUG list ... might get (at least some)
answers more quickly that way.

First, with dig, there's also question of what one's running the
queries against.  One can use @ to check against a particular DNS server.
What matters most is what folks see from The Internet at large (at least
in the case of Internet web server, anyway).

One can also use the -trace option (but don't overuse/abuse it - but it
is useful to trace the delegation all the way down, when needed.  Still,
however, one might occasionally need to do some manual checks along the
way - as -trace will check down just one particular (effectively randomly
selected) path of chain of delegation (among multiple possible paths)).

Also, for the specific bits other folks might not know about ... what I did
and didn't (thus far) change in DNS - I haven't (quite yet, anyway)
changed anything in Internet DNS - neither for BALUG.ORG. or SF-LUG.COM.

The only real bits I/we did yesterday (unless it's been taken further by
you or others - I presume you're working on that) was mostly minimal bits
on the relocated physical host to get it back onto the network (and
even that, mostly just concentrated on dom0 host).

Anyway, let me poke a bit more at sf-lug.com. DNS and see what I see (if
you and/or others don't already sort that out sooner than I manage to).

For those playing at home ;-) ... we have:
Silicon Mechanics, updated (moved) on 2009-11-11:
208.96.15.248/29 network #formerly 208.69.42.128/25
208.96.15.249 router #formerly 208.69.42.129
208.96.15.250 dom0 #formerly 208.69.42.165
208.96.15.251 sflug domU #formerly 208.69.42.166
208.96.15.252 balug domU #formerly 208.69.42.167
208.96.15.253 (useable)
208.96.15.254 (useable)
208.96.15.255 broadcast #formerly 208.69.42.255
sf-lug.com. was: 208.96.15.252 (that older tower system has been removed
and taken off-line)

footnote(s)/references/excerpts:
I may be (and often am) running significantly behind in reading the
sf-lug list.
dig(1)

Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:

> when i
> $ dig sf-lug.com
> i get
> 208.96.15.252  # sb 251
>
> when i use a browser to access http://www.sf-lug.com
> i get
> http://www.sf-lug.com/apache2-default/
> which i believe is served off of the balug vm (252).
>
> the name servers are listed as
> ns1.sf-lug.com
> ns2.sf-lug.com
>
> $ dig ns1.sf-lug.com
> shows
> ns1.sf-lug.com.		85611	IN	A	208.96.15.252
>
> $ dig ns2.sf-lug.com
> shows
> ns2.sf-lug.com.		85553	IN	A	198.144.195.186
>
> i'm guessing that you've copied the dns info from
> the tower to the balug vm and that it is not on
> the sf-lug vm.
>
> i believe the 198...186 machine is rick moen's.
>
> how to update the dns servers so
> http://www.sf-lug.com
> works as expected?




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Nov 12 13:15:58 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:15:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>

My fairly quick checks (mostly did them on-and off a bit ago, after my
earlier email) ... not an exhaustive check, but mostly looking
at many key items for sf-lug.com. DNS infrastructure.
I added some comments on lines starting with //
Full analysis/commentary (or explaining exactly what I did (and didn't) do
and why, I'll leave as an exercise ;-) for those interested.

$ lynx -dump http://208.96.15.252/

                                    It works!

$ dig -t NS com. +short
j.gtld-servers.net.
k.gtld-servers.net.
l.gtld-servers.net.
m.gtld-servers.net.
a.gtld-servers.net.
b.gtld-servers.net.
c.gtld-servers.net.
d.gtld-servers.net.
e.gtld-servers.net.
f.gtld-servers.net.
g.gtld-servers.net.
h.gtld-servers.net.
i.gtld-servers.net.
$ dig @j.gtld-servers.net. -t NS sf-lug.com. +short
ns1.sf-lug.com.
ns2.sf-lug.com.
$ dig @j.gtld-servers.net. -t A ns1.sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
208.96.15.252
$ dig @j.gtld-servers.net. -t A ns2.sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
198.144.195.186
$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
208.96.15.252
$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A www.sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
208.96.15.252
$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
;; global options:  printcmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A www.sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A www.sf-lug.com. +short +norecurse
;; global options:  printcmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
$ dig -x 198.144.195.186 +short
linuxmafia.COM.
$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t SOA sf-lug.com. +short
ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2007102904 3600 3600 1209600 10800
$

If 198.144.195.186 has any or all of these IPs:
208.69.42.165
208.69.42.166
208.96.15.252
as its master for sf-lug.com., it will need updating.
The only other immediate thing I particularly notice, is 208.96.15.252
isn't (yet) handling DNS queries, and presuming (guessing) that
198.144.195.186 is slave for sf-lug.com., not master, where does it
get that data from?  Looks like it may not have a master available to it
"presently" (well, a bit ago, anyway).  SOA would imply it likely gets
that data from 208.96.15.252.


Also, my earlier email should have indicated +trace, rather than -trace.


Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:

> You can also ask on the SF-LUG list ... might get (at least some)
> answers more quickly that way.
>
> First, with dig, there's also question of what one's running the
> queries against.  One can use @ to check against a particular DNS server.
> What matters most is what folks see from The Internet at large (at least
> in the case of Internet web server, anyway).
>
> One can also use the -trace option (but don't overuse/abuse it - but it
> is useful to trace the delegation all the way down, when needed.  Still,
> however, one might occasionally need to do some manual checks along the
> way - as -trace will check down just one particular (effectively randomly
> selected) path of chain of delegation (among multiple possible paths)).
>
> Also, for the specific bits other folks might not know about ... what I did
> and didn't (thus far) change in DNS - I haven't (quite yet, anyway)
> changed anything in Internet DNS - neither for BALUG.ORG. or SF-LUG.COM.
>
> The only real bits I/we did yesterday (unless it's been taken further by
> you or others - I presume you're working on that) was mostly minimal bits
> on the relocated physical host to get it back onto the network (and
> even that, mostly just concentrated on dom0 host).
>
> Anyway, let me poke a bit more at sf-lug.com. DNS and see what I see (if
> you and/or others don't already sort that out sooner than I manage to).
>
> For those playing at home ;-) ... we have:
> Silicon Mechanics, updated (moved) on 2009-11-11:
> 208.96.15.248/29 network #formerly 208.69.42.128/25
> 208.96.15.249 router #formerly 208.69.42.129
> 208.96.15.250 dom0 #formerly 208.69.42.165
> 208.96.15.251 sflug domU #formerly 208.69.42.166
> 208.96.15.252 balug domU #formerly 208.69.42.167
> 208.96.15.253 (useable)
> 208.96.15.254 (useable)
> 208.96.15.255 broadcast #formerly 208.69.42.255
> sf-lug.com. was: 208.96.15.252 (that older tower system has been removed
> and taken off-line)
>
> footnote(s)/references/excerpts:
> I may be (and often am) running significantly behind in reading the
> sf-lug list.
> dig(1)
>
> Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:
>
>> when i
>> $ dig sf-lug.com
>> i get
>> 208.96.15.252  # sb 251
>>
>> when i use a browser to access http://www.sf-lug.com
>> i get
>> http://www.sf-lug.com/apache2-default/
>> which i believe is served off of the balug vm (252).
>>
>> the name servers are listed as
>> ns1.sf-lug.com
>> ns2.sf-lug.com
>>
>> $ dig ns1.sf-lug.com
>> shows
>> ns1.sf-lug.com.		85611	IN	A	208.96.15.252
>>
>> $ dig ns2.sf-lug.com
>> shows
>> ns2.sf-lug.com.		85553	IN	A	198.144.195.186
>>
>> i'm guessing that you've copied the dns info from
>> the tower to the balug vm and that it is not on
>> the sf-lug vm.
>>
>> i believe the 198...186 machine is rick moen's.
>>
>> how to update the dns servers so
>> http://www.sf-lug.com
>> works as expected?




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Thu Nov 12 13:32:41 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:32:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Chris Mason
<mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com> wrote:
> The non-free "Eldy" software is a central selling point of the system,
> making it clearly a derived work - meaning that, under the terms of
> the GNU GPL, the end result itself must be licensed under the GPL.

Bundling free with non-free software is referred to as "mere
aggregation" in GPL2 and specifically permitted. You may want to read
Linus Torvald's email on this topic:

http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/16/202

It is OK for non-free software to depend on and connect to free
software... however if they are so tightly connected as to form a
single program, as in the combination of a kernel with modules, then
the resulting single program is a derived work. To me, the borderline
between two separate interacting programs and a single combined
program is somewhat blurry and I suspect this will be further tested
as software methodology evolves.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Nov 12 23:09:29 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:09:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> Bundling free with non-free software is referred to as "mere
> aggregation" in GPL2 and specifically permitted. You may want to read
> Linus Torvald's email on this topic:
> 
> http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/6/16/202

Torvalds's explanation is excellent as far as it goes, _but_:

> It is OK for non-free software to depend on and connect to free
> software... however if they are so tightly connected as to form a
> single program, as in the combination of a kernel with modules, then
> the resulting single program is a derived work.

That's not really it.  

"Derivative work" is a term of art (i.e., a term with special, technical
meaning) within the area of copyright law.  In the USA, the United
States Code chapter 17, section 101 (which is the first section of the
Copyright Act, as amended innumerable times by Congress) gives a very
vague description:

   A "derivative work" is a work based upon one or more
   pre-existing works, such as a translation, musical arrangement,
   dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound
   recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form
   in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work
   consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other
   modifications which, as a whole, represent an original work of
   authorship, is a "derivative work".

It's typical of Federal statutes like the Copyright Act that they 
leave a lot of ambiguities.  In the case of "derivative works", this
hole has gotten filled to a minor degree by administrative regulations
enacted by the Library of Congress's Copyright Office[1], but _mostly_
it's been filled in by caselaw, i.e., by court decisions in copyright
lawsuits.

The court decisions in question have a great deal to say about what
_elements_ of a copyright-eligible work, such as a piece of software
that meets minimal requirements for originality, are eligible for
copyright coverage in the first place.  In particular, elements judged 
expressive in nature are copyright-eligible; ones dictated by
functionality and compatibility are not.  And, in some case, such as the
varieties of "fair use", even expressive elements can lawfully be used
without permission by third parties.  Copying of elements can be
either literal or non-literal; the latter can be illegal, or not.

So, the usual computer-geek notion that derivative work law necessarily
involves literal copying is incorrect.  The notion that "linking" has
something to do with it, popularised by the FSF, is likewise incorrect.

I have links to some of the important case decisions at
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law , and recommend reading them
if you're interested.  They're surprisingly accessible to the layman.


[1] In this regard, statutes passed by Congress are classed as "enabling
legislation", that authorises executive agencies and departments to then
fill in the gaps and details with regulations that are then called, in 
contrast, "administrative law".  Both have the force of law, as do
judges' decisions, but administrative law must be within the limits set
by its enabling legislation.  Congressional law is codified in the
United States Code ("U.S.C."), while administrative law is published in
the Code of Federal Regulations ("C.F.R.").




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Fri Nov 13 10:19:16 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:19:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG/BALUG IPs, DNS,
	etc. [DO NOT "REPLY-ALL" (unless can post	to both lists)]
In-Reply-To: <1258127026.6549.18.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112181602.24623dt93zp7uhy8@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<1258127026.6549.18.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091113101916.160535qmvknef5gk@webmail.rawbw.com>

[DO NOT "REPLY-ALL" (unless can post to both lists)]

Quoting jim <jim at well.com>:

>    don't know why i didn't think of it earlier:
> can we just swap ip addresses? set balug to use
> 208.96.15.251 and sf-lug to use it's original
> ip address 208.96.15.252. then we can tweak the
> dns stuff in the sf-lug vm to be what it was on
> the tower rather than figure out how to adjust
> everything for new dns server ips?

Ah, ... excellent point(s) ... I missed noticing the subnet reuse.

Let's go ahead and have 208.96.15.252 be SF-LUG again (I've taken BALUG
off of that IP), and 208.96.15.254 be BALUG again.  That way at least
each LUG remains on its same IP (even if we still have different hosts
(virtual or otherwise) at those target IPs compared to before
2009-11-11).

So, feel free to proceed on SF-LUG, as BALUG should be out of your way
(208.96.15.252 IP available for use by SF-LUG again).




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Fri Nov 13 11:55:14 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:55:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF Community Summit 2009
Message-ID: <5fb387c70911131155r2a9b228fxc09c298cf076b3d1@mail.gmail.com>

We (OLPC-SF) are planning a community summit on the 21st of November,
2009. This will mirror a OLPC NYC event in New York. One on the East
coast, and one on the West coast!

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_SanFranciscoBayArea/OLPCSF_Community_Summit_2009
or http://tinyurl.com/olpcsf-summit

The event will be an "unconference" with a "Birds of a feather"
flavor. Please use the wiki or olpcsf mailing list to propose topics,
presentations, panels, etc. and make this *your* event.

We usually have a problem at the meetings where the topic is too
deployment-centric or too technical, and others feel left out. At this
event, we'll have parallel sessions for "Education" Technology" and
"Outreach" (we have three rooms) so that you can pick the ones you
like and skip the ones you don't!

Many of the deployment teams have also agreed to take part in one way
or the other. So, start racking your brains and propose topics.
Anything OLPC and Sugar related goes. Curriculum, Deployment tips and
tricks, School Servers, Python hackery, Moodle, Sugar on a Stick, etc.
Make it sing! See current list of topics at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_SanFranciscoBayArea/OLPCSF_Community_Summit_2009#Presenters_and_Facilitators

We'll also have the XO 1.5 unit (a hardware-refreshed version of XO1)
at the event.

Please RSVP either on the wiki page http://tinyurl.com/olpcsf-summit
or http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/4882827/CA/San-Francisco/OLPC-SF-Community-Summit-2009/
or http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=175393431869

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 12:29:26 2009
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:29:26 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] Access to big endian machine with C++ compiler
In-Reply-To: <ddf6f4ca0911131221g19e423batacd882db35fe122d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ddf6f4ca0911131218u244672a8v4050ef19ae5bcb15@mail.gmail.com>
	<ddf6f4ca0911131221g19e423batacd882db35fe122d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ddf6f4ca0911131229p5a742e0h25182f3564413b92@mail.gmail.com>

Shalom

Would anyone be interested in working out a deal with me to
allow me to login to a big endian computer and build/run some
tests?   My offer will consist of giving you an investment in
Ebenezer Enterprises.  I don't need to have 24/7 access to
it.


Regards,
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://www.webEbenezer.net
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From guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 14:29:51 2009
From: guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com (Will McGinnis)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:29:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Richard Stallman Speaking at Berkeley Nov 16
Message-ID: <f85408580911131429i1c6fe14bwedc378c4bbe50580@mail.gmail.com>

Berkeley, CA - 306 Soda Hall, corner of Hearst and Leroy (<
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Directions/#soda>), Berkeley University -
Richard Stallman wrote the first GNU General Public License in 1989, and
version 3 which was completed in 2007. He will discuss the philosophy of the
GNU GPL, the changes made in version 3, and the reasons for those changes.

For more information, visit http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/
WhatRMS SpeechWhen 2009-11-16 from 16:10 to 18:00 WhereBerkeley, CAFrom:
http://www.fsf.org/events/20091116berkeley

Futher info:
http://events.berkeley.edu/index.php/calendar/sn/eecs.html?event_ID=25027
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From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 16:16:54 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:16:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>> It is OK for non-free software to depend on and connect to free
>> software... however if they are so tightly connected as to form a
>> single program, as in the combination of a kernel with modules, then
>> the resulting single program is a derived work.
>
> That's not really it.

Correct, I am not attempting to recapitulate Linus' argument about
aggregation, but advancing a separate point, which is: this distro is
OK under GPL because the non-free Eldy software is not tightly coupled
with GPL'd components such as the Linux kernel. Assuming Eldy is a
standalone program in its own right, such that we could easily swap
out Linux and run it on BSD or Windows, that's a good indication it is
NOT derived from Linux. If Eldy were more tightly coupled in the sense
that it "has knowledge of and plays with fundamental internal Linux
behaviour" then we can make an argument that it IS derived from Linux:

http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/0670.html

In the first case we have what the GPL calls an "independent and
separate work" which does not require source disclosure; whereas in
the second case we would view Linux as the "base work" and Eldy as an
"elaboration" of it.

Again this is just my own interpretation; clarifications to my
thinking are always welcome.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 13 16:59:29 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:59:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> Correct, I am not attempting to recapitulate Linus' argument about
> aggregation, but advancing a separate point, which is: this distro is
> OK under GPL because the non-free Eldy software is not tightly coupled
> with GPL'd components such as the Linux kernel.

Right you are, sir, and you're certainly right that that's the main
point.  Apologies if I distracted from it.


You might find it of interest that the criterion of "has knowledge of
and plays with fundamental internal Linux behaviour" doesn't hold water.
(Yes, I know that's what Torvalds and some others talk about.)  It's 
apparent _why_ people think that:  The theory is that coders probably
could not engineer that degree of close cooperation without copying code 
from kernel headers and elsewhere, e.g., to get the data structures
right, and borrowing that substantive code (without qualifying for fair
use) and issuing it under a conflicting licence is copyright violation.

Maybe, _but_ the weak point in that argument, even assuming code
borrowing, is that the borrowed elements would tend by their nature to be
functional and dictated by compatibility, rather than expressive.  
Such non-expressive elements are exactly what, as I mentioned, are not
_qualified_ for copyright coverage in the first place.

The reason why:  You're never allowed to copyright ideas, only
expressions.  Ideas are (sometimes) patentable, but completely
ineligible for copyright.  In law, this is in fact called the
"idea/expression dichotomy", and is the reason for the limited scope of
copyrightable elements in a creative work.





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Fri Nov 13 18:21:09 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:21:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: Tu 2009-11-17 Mark Terranova on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic
	Koala
Message-ID: <20091113182109.11994t09s36ssmck@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2009-11-17 Mark Terranova on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-11-17

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2009-11-17 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present:

2009-11-17 Mark Terranova on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala[1]

Mark Terranova will be giving a talk about what is new in Ubuntu[2]'s
newest release - Karmic Koala.  He will also speak some about his
experiences with Local tech stuff.

Mark Terranova is a "West Coast Community-Developed-Software guy".  Mark
has regularly taught many types of computer classes specializing in the
benefits of Linux and Cross-Platform Software.

He has been involved with spreading Ubuntu for a while.  He has helped
organize Ubuntu Release Parties and other tech events that make it fun
- using beer, BBQ, and other ways to create a fun community.  He has
spent much time in Portland, Oregon working with FreeGeek.org[3].  Their
unique style helped him learn how to involve more people in computing.

This knowledge has helped him in his role as co-founder of Gidget
Kitchen[4] (GK).  "Gidget Kitchen donates computers, generally using
Ubuntu, to groups and individuals."  GK strives to make modern
technology simple, empowering, and easy for everyone to understand.  The
only requirement is "the ability to play well with others."

Mark blames his interest in technical things and electronics on his
father Michael.  "He gave me a Commodore 64 and helped me get my amateur
radio license (N6TBD) at an early age".

1. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview
2. http://www.ubuntu.com/
3. http://www.freegeek.org/
4. http://www.gidgetkitchen.org/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

             rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

             6:30pm
             Tuesday, November 17th, 2009 2009-11-17

             Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
             731 Grant Ave.
             San Francisco, CA 94108
             Easy PARKING:
             Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

http://www.balug.org/




From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 13 20:17:52 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:17:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
 with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>

well, you can ask RMS about this on Monday

Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>>> It is OK for non-free software to depend on and connect to free
>>> software... however if they are so tightly connected as to form a
>>> single program, as in the combination of a kernel with modules, then
>>> the resulting single program is a derived work.
>> That's not really it.
> 
> Correct, I am not attempting to recapitulate Linus' argument about
> aggregation, but advancing a separate point, which is: this distro is
> OK under GPL because the non-free Eldy software is not tightly coupled
> with GPL'd components such as the Linux kernel. Assuming Eldy is a
> standalone program in its own right, such that we could easily swap
> out Linux and run it on BSD or Windows, that's a good indication it is
> NOT derived from Linux. If Eldy were more tightly coupled in the sense
> that it "has knowledge of and plays with fundamental internal Linux
> behaviour" then we can make an argument that it IS derived from Linux:
> 
> http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/0670.html
> 
> In the first case we have what the GPL calls an "independent and
> separate work" which does not require source disclosure; whereas in
> the second case we would view Linux as the "base work" and Eldy as an
> "elaboration" of it.
> 
> Again this is just my own interpretation; clarifications to my
> thinking are always welcome.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 13 20:49:22 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:49:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091114044922.GV1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Shiloh (michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com):

> well, you can ask RMS about this on Monday

I know Richard well.  I know what he has to say on the subject.

Actually, though, he leaves commentary on most legal matters (detailed
ones, at least) to Prof. Moglen -- who tends to kind of talk arround the
subject of what "derivative work" really means in court, which isthe
only place thet matters.  But they are both of course completely clear
on the subject of "mere aggregation", having written that phrase into
the GPL in acknowledgement of the fundamental limits of copyright scope.

So, regarding something that's merely part of the same OS load as a
GPl-covered work, you're going to hear from them the same thing I said,
as it's pretty much a no-brainer.

Anyway, I just did something I'm not sure any of the prior commentors
bothered to do:  I downloaded Eldy 2.1 and looked for myself.  It's
mostly a bunch of Java bytecode, plus a couple of compiled libs and a
very small userspace app that invokes the libs.

Derivative work of the Linux kernel?  Hah, fat chance.

-- 
Cheers,                                      "Reality is not optional."
Rick Moen                                             -- Thomas Sowell
rick at linuxmafia.com



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Nov 14 00:56:18 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:56:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):


> The only other immediate thing I particularly notice, is 208.96.15.252
> isn't (yet) handling DNS queries, and presuming (guessing) that
> 198.144.195.186 is slave for sf-lug.com., not master, where does it
> get that data from?  Looks like it may not have a master available to it
> "presently" (well, a bit ago, anyway).  SOA would imply it likely gets
> that data from 208.96.15.252.

Let's see:

$ whois sf-lug.com | grep "Name Server"
   Name Server: NS1.SF-LUG.COM
   Name Server: NS2.SF-LUG.COM

$ dig NS1.SF-LUG.COM +short
208.96.15.252

$ dig NS2.SF-LUG.COM +short
198.144.195.186

The latter IP address, 198.144.195.186, is my nameserver.


$ grep -A 4 sf-lug.com /etc/bind/named.conf.local
zone "sf-lug.com" {
        type slave; 
        file "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
        allow-query { any; };
	allow-transfer { none; };
        masters {
	//ns1.sf-lug.com is:
        208.96.15.252;
        };
};

$ ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 470 2009-11-11 18:29
/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone

$ cat /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
$ORIGIN .
$TTL 86400	; 1 day
sf-lug.com		IN SOA	ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
				2007102904 ; serial
				3600       ; refresh (1 hour)
				3600       ; retry (1 hour)
				1209600    ; expire (2 weeks)
				10800      ; minimum (3 hours)
				)
			NS	ns1.sf-lug.com.
			NS	ns2.sf-lug.com.
			A	208.96.15.252
			MX	5 mail.sf-lug.com.
			TXT	"v=spf1 a mx -all"
$ORIGIN sf-lug.com.
mail			A	208.96.15.252
ns1			A	208.96.15.252
ns2			A	198.144.195.186
www			A	208.96.15.252




So, there you have it.  198.144.195.186, my nameserver, is a DNS
seconary / slave / whatever-is-your-choice-of-jargon, pulling down 
zones from IP 208.96.15.252, having done so most recently at 6:29 PM,
last Wednesday.

And those IPs _are_ the authoritative servers in the parent zone (as
shown by whois).


> If 198.144.195.186 has any or all of these IPs:
> 208.69.42.165
> 208.69.42.166
> 208.96.15.252
> as its master for sf-lug.com., it will need updating.

To _what_?  I have no clue, because nobody's bothered to say anything.
Oops.

Hey, attention, guys:  You need to closely coordinate with your DNS
secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's master DNS to a
different IP.  You guys need to send e-mail (not mailing list mail) to
the guy who runs your secondaries (in this case, just me), saying that a
specified domain needs to be repointed to a new master IP.  You need to
say when this should happen.  You need to fix obsolete IPs in NS lines
in the zone you're serving from the master.  You need to make sure the
secondaries' IPs are all in the new master nameserver's allow-transfer
ACL.  You need to verify that the secondary successfully has done an
AXFR (zone transfer) from the new master IP, you need to query using dig
to make sure master and slaves are serving the new S/N (query for the
SOA).  Last, you then need to update the nameserver list in the domain
record, which ensures that the parent zone (.com, in this case) has the
correct glue records.

Again, e-mail or telephone.  Don't just blow stuff at me on a mailing
list.

I would appreciate it if you would also send me (attached to offlist
e-mail) your current revised master zonefile.  If it's anything like the
three-day-old one above, it has errors in it that need fixing.  I could
sit and detail what's wrong with the one above, but I really don't want
to then hear "Oh, but that's not what our zonefile says any more."  So,
please send the revised copy.  Thank you.

Also, I'll repeat yet again something I've told you a number of times
before:  You are violating RFC recommendations in having only two
nameservers, and it's unsafely thin service.  The RFC recommendation is
minimum three, maximum seven nameservers.

That was an important problem that you needed to fix the last n times
I've brought it to your attention.  The problem remains unfixed; you
still need to fix it, and hasn't gotten better just because you've
ignored it.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Nov 14 01:22:51 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:22:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091114092251.GS21475@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

> Hey, attention, guys:  You need to closely coordinate with your DNS
> secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's master DNS to a
> different IP.

Let me elaborate on that, for a moment.

I'm guessing you guys moved the master nameserver for domain sf-lug.com
without bothering to coordinate with your secondary.  Of the two IPs in
your authoritative nameservers list (what "whois" returns and is in the
parent zone's glue records), one (the master) doesn't respond at all to
queries:

$ dig -t soa sf-lug.com @208.96.15.252 +short
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
$

One authoritative nameserver (the secondary) does respond, but has been
unable to get updates since Wednesday:

$ dig -t soa sf-lug.com @198.144.195.186 +short
ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2007102904 3600 3600 1209600 10800
$

So, your domain's entire DNS nameservice is currently degraded to the
point where it's totally dependent on ONE MACHINE, which is among the
reasons why you should always have minimum three, maximum seven in
service.  

That secondary nameserver's data are going to expire on Wednesday,
November 25, 6:29 PM, unless you fix the currently broken situation, at
which point you will have no nameservice at all, in place of the current
perilously fragile nameservice.


So, NEVER move a domain's master nameserver to a new IP without
coordinating closely with all of your secondaries IN ADVANCE.  

It is also an extremely bad idea to list the same telephone number and
the same e-mail address for all contacts in a domain's whois record.
At bare minimum, you should make sure that the Administrative Contact
and the Technical Contact are different (and that neither's e-mail goes
through the domain in question -- SPoF risk).

You guys really should fix that, too.




From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com  Sat Nov 14 10:42:24 2009
From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:42:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation
Message-ID: <c8c30a7c0911141042r5853d080v5654771717a98da3@mail.gmail.com>

OK, thanks for the feedback folks. I suspected the possibility that I
might be off the mark regarding the GPL violation. In retrospect, I'm
glad I phrased that part as a question :D

On a technical level, eldy is clearly not a derivative work....

It still bugs the hell out of me, though, how clearly they are setting
themselves up for future (one year time-frame) price gouging of the
multitude of older folks out there. :\

And I really think the folks developing eldy could have come up with a
better business model than the traditional crack dealer model of
"free until your hooked, then we charge whatever we like".

Perhaps followed Firefox's lead? Release eldy as Free Software with a
default search engine, e-mail, and chat client that can be changed by
anyone... but collect money from google/yahoo/whoever for using their
stuff as the default for those that stick with the default.

(And I suspect most people leave defaults be, when they are
reasonable. Does anyone here *not* use Google Search with Firefox? $$
for Mozilla.)


Regards,

Chris Mason



From jim at well.com  Sat Nov 14 10:47:25 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:47:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1258224445.6797.24.camel@jim-laptop>


   (continuing on the list in case others are 
interested, which i hope they are--i could use 
some help.) 

   you're right, as usual, rick. this is entirely 
my doing and fault, partly due to ignorance. 
   we replaced the old machine with a new one. the 
old machine was pretty much a classic unix box 
(CentOS 4 or 5). the new machine uses debian XEN 
to implement two virtual machines, one for balug, 
the other for sf-lug (which is now using the 
correct ip address). 

(...skipping the details of the last two days' 
confused actions...) 

   i'll have to bring up the old machine and find 
the dns files then copy them to the new machine. 
   probably a poor idea to have a master dns 
server on the box that the dns points to, yes? 

   per your subsequent email re a third dns name 
server, that's my fault, too: i got distracted in 
the middle of the process (of learning what to 
type in which files) and dropped the ball. i'll 
go pick the ball back up. 
   i wish i could find a tutorial that succinctly 
and completely explains the rudiments of setting 
up dns for and on a linux system: this would 
summarize the concepts and then specify the files 
to create and/or modify and finally present 
several examples to exemplify common use cases. 



On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 00:56 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
> 
> 
> > The only other immediate thing I particularly notice, is 208.96.15.252
> > isn't (yet) handling DNS queries, and presuming (guessing) that
> > 198.144.195.186 is slave for sf-lug.com., not master, where does it
> > get that data from?  Looks like it may not have a master available to it
> > "presently" (well, a bit ago, anyway).  SOA would imply it likely gets
> > that data from 208.96.15.252.
> 
> Let's see:
> 
> $ whois sf-lug.com | grep "Name Server"
>    Name Server: NS1.SF-LUG.COM
>    Name Server: NS2.SF-LUG.COM
> 
> $ dig NS1.SF-LUG.COM +short
> 208.96.15.252
> 
> $ dig NS2.SF-LUG.COM +short
> 198.144.195.186
> 
> The latter IP address, 198.144.195.186, is my nameserver.
> 
> 
> $ grep -A 4 sf-lug.com /etc/bind/named.conf.local
> zone "sf-lug.com" {
>         type slave; 
>         file "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
>         allow-query { any; };
> 	allow-transfer { none; };
>         masters {
> 	//ns1.sf-lug.com is:
>         208.96.15.252;
>         };
> };
> 
> $ ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 470 2009-11-11 18:29
> /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
> 
> $ cat /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> $ORIGIN .
> $TTL 86400	; 1 day
> sf-lug.com		IN SOA	ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
> 				2007102904 ; serial
> 				3600       ; refresh (1 hour)
> 				3600       ; retry (1 hour)
> 				1209600    ; expire (2 weeks)
> 				10800      ; minimum (3 hours)
> 				)
> 			NS	ns1.sf-lug.com.
> 			NS	ns2.sf-lug.com.
> 			A	208.96.15.252
> 			MX	5 mail.sf-lug.com.
> 			TXT	"v=spf1 a mx -all"
> $ORIGIN sf-lug.com.
> mail			A	208.96.15.252
> ns1			A	208.96.15.252
> ns2			A	198.144.195.186
> www			A	208.96.15.252
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, there you have it.  198.144.195.186, my nameserver, is a DNS
> seconary / slave / whatever-is-your-choice-of-jargon, pulling down 
> zones from IP 208.96.15.252, having done so most recently at 6:29 PM,
> last Wednesday.
> 
> And those IPs _are_ the authoritative servers in the parent zone (as
> shown by whois).
> 
> 
> > If 198.144.195.186 has any or all of these IPs:
> > 208.69.42.165
> > 208.69.42.166
> > 208.96.15.252
> > as its master for sf-lug.com., it will need updating.
> 
> To _what_?  I have no clue, because nobody's bothered to say anything.
> Oops.
> 
> Hey, attention, guys:  You need to closely coordinate with your DNS
> secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's master DNS to a
> different IP.  You guys need to send e-mail (not mailing list mail) to
> the guy who runs your secondaries (in this case, just me), saying that a
> specified domain needs to be repointed to a new master IP.  You need to
> say when this should happen.  You need to fix obsolete IPs in NS lines
> in the zone you're serving from the master.  You need to make sure the
> secondaries' IPs are all in the new master nameserver's allow-transfer
> ACL.  You need to verify that the secondary successfully has done an
> AXFR (zone transfer) from the new master IP, you need to query using dig
> to make sure master and slaves are serving the new S/N (query for the
> SOA).  Last, you then need to update the nameserver list in the domain
> record, which ensures that the parent zone (.com, in this case) has the
> correct glue records.
> 
> Again, e-mail or telephone.  Don't just blow stuff at me on a mailing
> list.
> 
> I would appreciate it if you would also send me (attached to offlist
> e-mail) your current revised master zonefile.  If it's anything like the
> three-day-old one above, it has errors in it that need fixing.  I could
> sit and detail what's wrong with the one above, but I really don't want
> to then hear "Oh, but that's not what our zonefile says any more."  So,
> please send the revised copy.  Thank you.
> 
> Also, I'll repeat yet again something I've told you a number of times
> before:  You are violating RFC recommendations in having only two
> nameservers, and it's unsafely thin service.  The RFC recommendation is
> minimum three, maximum seven nameservers.
> 
> That was an important problem that you needed to fix the last n times
> I've brought it to your attention.  The problem remains unfixed; you
> still need to fix it, and hasn't gotten better just because you've
> ignored it.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 14 12:34:34 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 12:34:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <1258224445.6797.24.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <383643.10761.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


> ???i wish i could find a tutorial that
> succinctly 
> and completely explains the rudiments of setting 
> up dns for and on a linux system: this would 
> summarize the concepts and then specify the files 
> to create and/or modify and finally present 
> several examples to exemplify common use cases. 

this may not be quite up to the level you need but it might be worth having a look at http://www.aboutdebian.com/dns.htm
I've found aboutdebian to be a very useful site, especially his neworking page.

> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 00:56 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
> > 
> > 
> > > The only other immediate thing I particularly
> notice, is 208.96.15.252
> > > isn't (yet) handling DNS queries, and presuming
> (guessing) that
> > > 198.144.195.186 is slave for sf-lug.com., not
> master, where does it
> > > get that data from?? Looks like it may not
> have a master available to it
> > > "presently" (well, a bit ago, anyway).? SOA
> would imply it likely gets
> > > that data from 208.96.15.252.
> > 
> > Let's see:
> > 
> > $ whois sf-lug.com | grep "Name Server"
> >? ? Name Server: NS1.SF-LUG.COM
> >? ? Name Server: NS2.SF-LUG.COM
> > 
> > $ dig NS1.SF-LUG.COM +short
> > 208.96.15.252
> > 
> > $ dig NS2.SF-LUG.COM +short
> > 198.144.195.186
> > 
> > The latter IP address, 198.144.195.186, is my
> nameserver.
> > 
> > 
> > $ grep -A 4 sf-lug.com /etc/bind/named.conf.local
> > zone "sf-lug.com" {
> >? ? ? ???type slave; 
> >? ? ? ???file
> "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
> >? ? ? ???allow-query {
> any; };
> > ??? allow-transfer { none; };
> >? ? ? ???masters {
> > ??? //ns1.sf-lug.com is:
> >? ? ? ???208.96.15.252;
> >? ? ? ???};
> > };
> > 
> > $ ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 470 2009-11-11 18:29
> > /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
> > 
> > $ cat /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> > $ORIGIN .
> > $TTL 86400??? ; 1 day
> > sf-lug.com??? ??? IN
> SOA??? ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? 2007102904 ; serial
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? 3600? ?
> ???; refresh (1 hour)
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? 3600? ?
> ???; retry (1 hour)
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? 1209600? ? ;
> expire (2 weeks)
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? 10800? ?
> ? ; minimum (3 hours)
> > ??? ???
> ??? ??? )
> > ??? ???
> ??? NS??? ns1.sf-lug.com.
> > ??? ???
> ??? NS??? ns2.sf-lug.com.
> > ??? ???
> ??? A??? 208.96.15.252
> > ??? ???
> ??? MX??? 5 mail.sf-lug.com.
> > ??? ???
> ??? TXT??? "v=spf1 a mx -all"
> > $ORIGIN sf-lug.com.
> > mail??? ???
> ??? A??? 208.96.15.252
> > ns1??? ???
> ??? A??? 208.96.15.252
> > ns2??? ???
> ??? A??? 198.144.195.186
> > www??? ???
> ??? A??? 208.96.15.252
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So, there you have it.? 198.144.195.186, my
> nameserver, is a DNS
> > seconary / slave / whatever-is-your-choice-of-jargon,
> pulling down 
> > zones from IP 208.96.15.252, having done so most
> recently at 6:29 PM,
> > last Wednesday.
> > 
> > And those IPs _are_ the authoritative servers in the
> parent zone (as
> > shown by whois).
> > 
> > 
> > > If 198.144.195.186 has any or all of these IPs:
> > > 208.69.42.165
> > > 208.69.42.166
> > > 208.96.15.252
> > > as its master for sf-lug.com., it will need
> updating.
> > 
> > To _what_?? I have no clue, because nobody's
> bothered to say anything.
> > Oops.
> > 
> > Hey, attention, guys:? You need to closely
> coordinate with your DNS
> > secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's
> master DNS to a
> > different IP.? You guys need to send e-mail (not
> mailing list mail) to
> > the guy who runs your secondaries (in this case, just
> me), saying that a
> > specified domain needs to be repointed to a new master
> IP.? You need to
> > say when this should happen.? You need to fix
> obsolete IPs in NS lines
> > in the zone you're serving from the master.? You
> need to make sure the
> > secondaries' IPs are all in the new master
> nameserver's allow-transfer
> > ACL.? You need to verify that the secondary
> successfully has done an
> > AXFR (zone transfer) from the new master IP, you need
> to query using dig
> > to make sure master and slaves are serving the new S/N
> (query for the
> > SOA).? Last, you then need to update the
> nameserver list in the domain
> > record, which ensures that the parent zone (.com, in
> this case) has the
> > correct glue records.
> > 
> > Again, e-mail or telephone.? Don't just blow
> stuff at me on a mailing
> > list.
> > 
> > I would appreciate it if you would also send me
> (attached to offlist
> > e-mail) your current revised master zonefile.? If
> it's anything like the
> > three-day-old one above, it has errors in it that need
> fixing.? I could
> > sit and detail what's wrong with the one above, but I
> really don't want
> > to then hear "Oh, but that's not what our zonefile
> says any more."? So,
> > please send the revised copy.? Thank you.
> > 
> > Also, I'll repeat yet again something I've told you a
> number of times
> > before:? You are violating RFC recommendations in
> having only two
> > nameservers, and it's unsafely thin service.? The
> RFC recommendation is
> > minimum three, maximum seven nameservers.
> > 
> > That was an important problem that you needed to fix
> the last n times
> > I've brought it to your attention.? The problem
> remains unfixed; you
> > still need to fix it, and hasn't gotten better just
> because you've
> > ignored it.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 


      



From nbs at sonic.net  Sat Nov 14 14:39:48 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:39:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation
In-Reply-To: <c8c30a7c0911141042r5853d080v5654771717a98da3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911141042r5853d080v5654771717a98da3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091114223948.GA3564@sonic.net>

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:42:24AM -0800, Chris Mason wrote:
> On a technical level, eldy is clearly not a derivative work....
> 
> It still bugs the hell out of me, though, how clearly they are setting
> themselves up for future (one year time-frame) price gouging of the
> multitude of older folks out there. :\

Well, there are countless closed systems built around Linux.
(TiVo, Kindle, Roku Netflix Player, Google, to name a few ;) )

Many torches and pitchforks _have_ been raised, but in most
cases it's less to do with licensing, and more to do with the
system itself.  (e.g., Kindle's text-to-speech... on the one hand,
it's pissed off the Authors Guild, because it will apparently
prevent audio books from selling. ;)  On the other hand,
people with vision disabilities are annoyed because, while the
device has TTS, it's difficult to actually _use_ the device
without being able to see.  Apparently even just getting the thing
to read a book aloud requires mucking around with menus that you
need to be able to read.)


Sorry, I'm rambling.

<snip>
> (And I suspect most people leave defaults be, when they are
> reasonable. Does anyone here *not* use Google Search with Firefox? $$
> for Mozilla.)

I use  [Alt]+[F2] then "gg:", then the search term on my KDE desktop.
(And that fires up Konqueror.)  So despite using Firefox a lot
(because I "have to"), I only use it for a few specific tasks,
and searching Google is not one of them. ;)

Sorry Mozilla!

-bill!



From jim at well.com  Sat Nov 14 19:18:44 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 19:18:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <383643.10761.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <383643.10761.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1258255124.6797.34.camel@jim-laptop>


outstanding! tons of thanks! 


On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 12:34 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> >    i wish i could find a tutorial that
> > succinctly 
> > and completely explains the rudiments of setting 
> > up dns for and on a linux system: this would 
> > summarize the concepts and then specify the files 
> > to create and/or modify and finally present 
> > several examples to exemplify common use cases. 
> 
> this may not be quite up to the level you need but it might be worth having a look at http://www.aboutdebian.com/dns.htm
> I've found aboutdebian to be a very useful site, especially his neworking page.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 00:56 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> > > Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > The only other immediate thing I particularly
> > notice, is 208.96.15.252
> > > > isn't (yet) handling DNS queries, and presuming
> > (guessing) that
> > > > 198.144.195.186 is slave for sf-lug.com., not
> > master, where does it
> > > > get that data from?  Looks like it may not
> > have a master available to it
> > > > "presently" (well, a bit ago, anyway).  SOA
> > would imply it likely gets
> > > > that data from 208.96.15.252.
> > > 
> > > Let's see:
> > > 
> > > $ whois sf-lug.com | grep "Name Server"
> > >    Name Server: NS1.SF-LUG.COM
> > >    Name Server: NS2.SF-LUG.COM
> > > 
> > > $ dig NS1.SF-LUG.COM +short
> > > 208.96.15.252
> > > 
> > > $ dig NS2.SF-LUG.COM +short
> > > 198.144.195.186
> > > 
> > > The latter IP address, 198.144.195.186, is my
> > nameserver.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > $ grep -A 4 sf-lug.com /etc/bind/named.conf.local
> > > zone "sf-lug.com" {
> > >         type slave; 
> > >         file
> > "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
> > >         allow-query {
> > any; };
> > >     allow-transfer { none; };
> > >         masters {
> > >     //ns1.sf-lug.com is:
> > >         208.96.15.252;
> > >         };
> > > };
> > > 
> > > $ ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 470 2009-11-11 18:29
> > > /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
> > > 
> > > $ cat /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone 
> > > $ORIGIN .
> > > $TTL 86400    ; 1 day
> > > sf-lug.com        IN
> > SOA    ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
> > >        
> >         2007102904 ; serial
> > >        
> >         3600   
> >    ; refresh (1 hour)
> > >        
> >         3600   
> >    ; retry (1 hour)
> > >        
> >         1209600    ;
> > expire (2 weeks)
> > >        
> >         10800   
> >   ; minimum (3 hours)
> > >        
> >         )
> > >        
> >     NS    ns1.sf-lug.com.
> > >        
> >     NS    ns2.sf-lug.com.
> > >        
> >     A    208.96.15.252
> > >        
> >     MX    5 mail.sf-lug.com.
> > >        
> >     TXT    "v=spf1 a mx -all"
> > > $ORIGIN sf-lug.com.
> > > mail       
> >     A    208.96.15.252
> > > ns1       
> >     A    208.96.15.252
> > > ns2       
> >     A    198.144.195.186
> > > www       
> >     A    208.96.15.252
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > So, there you have it.  198.144.195.186, my
> > nameserver, is a DNS
> > > seconary / slave / whatever-is-your-choice-of-jargon,
> > pulling down 
> > > zones from IP 208.96.15.252, having done so most
> > recently at 6:29 PM,
> > > last Wednesday.
> > > 
> > > And those IPs _are_ the authoritative servers in the
> > parent zone (as
> > > shown by whois).
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > If 198.144.195.186 has any or all of these IPs:
> > > > 208.69.42.165
> > > > 208.69.42.166
> > > > 208.96.15.252
> > > > as its master for sf-lug.com., it will need
> > updating.
> > > 
> > > To _what_?  I have no clue, because nobody's
> > bothered to say anything.
> > > Oops.
> > > 
> > > Hey, attention, guys:  You need to closely
> > coordinate with your DNS
> > > secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's
> > master DNS to a
> > > different IP.  You guys need to send e-mail (not
> > mailing list mail) to
> > > the guy who runs your secondaries (in this case, just
> > me), saying that a
> > > specified domain needs to be repointed to a new master
> > IP.  You need to
> > > say when this should happen.  You need to fix
> > obsolete IPs in NS lines
> > > in the zone you're serving from the master.  You
> > need to make sure the
> > > secondaries' IPs are all in the new master
> > nameserver's allow-transfer
> > > ACL.  You need to verify that the secondary
> > successfully has done an
> > > AXFR (zone transfer) from the new master IP, you need
> > to query using dig
> > > to make sure master and slaves are serving the new S/N
> > (query for the
> > > SOA).  Last, you then need to update the
> > nameserver list in the domain
> > > record, which ensures that the parent zone (.com, in
> > this case) has the
> > > correct glue records.
> > > 
> > > Again, e-mail or telephone.  Don't just blow
> > stuff at me on a mailing
> > > list.
> > > 
> > > I would appreciate it if you would also send me
> > (attached to offlist
> > > e-mail) your current revised master zonefile.  If
> > it's anything like the
> > > three-day-old one above, it has errors in it that need
> > fixing.  I could
> > > sit and detail what's wrong with the one above, but I
> > really don't want
> > > to then hear "Oh, but that's not what our zonefile
> > says any more."  So,
> > > please send the revised copy.  Thank you.
> > > 
> > > Also, I'll repeat yet again something I've told you a
> > number of times
> > > before:  You are violating RFC recommendations in
> > having only two
> > > nameservers, and it's unsafely thin service.  The
> > RFC recommendation is
> > > minimum three, maximum seven nameservers.
> > > 
> > > That was an important problem that you needed to fix
> > the last n times
> > > I've brought it to your attention.  The problem
> > remains unfixed; you
> > > still need to fix it, and hasn't gotten better just
> > because you've
> > > ignored it.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > 
> 
> 
>       
> 




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Nov 14 21:20:20 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:20:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG (& BALUG) DNS, etc.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1258228802.27970.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1258228802.27970.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091114212020.141854unlha7jr84@webmail.rawbw.com>

Rick Moen,

Much thanks again for your excellent comment/observations regarding DNS
(e.g. SF-LUG.COM. and BALUG.ORG., etc.), both currently, and in the
past.

Much of what you point out helps to well illustrate how to (and how not
to) do DNS migrations, troubleshooting, issues/impacts/risks, etc.

There definitely were (and likely still are) some SNAFUs to be corrected
(and things caught up, etc.) with the SF-LUG and BALUG related machine
shuffling that happened 2009-11-11.

Not to try and make excuses and/or point fingers, but I had incorrectly
presumed the SF-LUG.COM. DNS stuff was being handled or mostly handled,
and I was mostly focusing on the BALUG.ORG. bits.  (I'm probably like
about tertiary systems administrator for SF-LUG's Xen domU on the
Silicon Mechanics host - which does or would be covering SF-LUG.COM. DNS
bits, but I'm probably primary sysadmin - at least in most regards, for
the BALUG.ORG. stuff).

I think (rough guestimate) many of the SF-LUG DNS bits are (or were)
certainly running behind on being corrected - BALUG's in better shape
there (though far from perfect if one digs deep enough) ... on the
other hand I think SF-LUG is further along in getting a fair bunch of
services going again (further ahead than BALUG, I think, on many of
those).

Anyway, I mostly jumped at least a moderate bit into the SF-LUG.COM. DNS
to help provide essential clues on matters yet to be addressed (I'm still
also working on numerous BALUG items).

Anyway, some more comments in-line, further below.

> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:22:51 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20091114092251.GS21475 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> I wrote:
>
>> Hey, attention, guys:  You need to closely coordinate with your DNS
>> secondaries' sysadmins whenever you move your domain's master DNS to a
>> different IP.

Yes, definitely.  Slaves should know in advance about changes in master
IP(s) or other significant changes impacting slave(s).  Generally also
good to let them know about any significant outages (scheduled or
otherwise) - multiple masters and/or other redundancy can also help make
life easier/better for slaves (and their providers).

> Let me elaborate on that, for a moment.
>
> I'm guessing you guys moved the master nameserver for domain sf-lug.com
> without bothering to coordinate with your secondary.  Of the two IPs in
> your authoritative nameservers list (what "whois" returns and is in the
> parent zone's glue records), one (the master) doesn't respond at all to
> queries:

Yes, essentially correct - some relatively jarring shuffling (could
have been much smoother with much more time and planning invested, but,
well, with just volunteers, sometimes ...)

> $ dig -t soa sf-lug.com @208.96.15.252 +short
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
> $
>
> One authoritative nameserver (the secondary) does respond, but has been
> unable to get updates since Wednesday:
>
> $ dig -t soa sf-lug.com @198.144.195.186 +short
> ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2007102904 3600 3600 1209600 10800
> $
>
> So, your domain's entire DNS nameservice is currently degraded to the
> point where it's totally dependent on ONE MACHINE, which is among the
> reasons why you should always have minimum three, maximum seven in
> service.
>
> That secondary nameserver's data are going to expire on Wednesday,
> November 25, 6:29 PM, unless you fix the currently broken situation, at
> which point you will have no nameservice at all, in place of the current
> perilously fragile nameservice.

Yes, excellent observation and point - also hinted at by some of the
SOA data I earlier displayed via dig(1).  I knew from what I saw then
that we had about that much time before it went (super)critical - but I
made no statement about that (leaving it as exercise for those that
wished to note and point it out).  If I recall correctly, I dealt with
almost precisely that type of failure with SF-LUG.COM. once before (DNS
master host had been rebooted, init system wasn't configured to restart
that DNS server, so it stayed down - wasn't noticed until the single
slave expired the zone - "Oops!" ... I fairly quickly figured that out,
restarted the master DNS server, and reconfigured the init bits so that
it would automatically (re)start upon system (re)boot).

This is also an area where SF-LUG could benefit from some appropriate
monitoring (e.g. Nagios) - so that problems are detected and appropriate
folks notified - and preferably before they become worse problems.  (and
yes, same could definitely be said for BALUG).

> So, NEVER move a domain's master nameserver to a new IP without
> coordinating closely with all of your secondaries IN ADVANCE.
>
> It is also an extremely bad idea to list the same telephone number and
> the same e-mail address for all contacts in a domain's whois record.
> At bare minimum, you should make sure that the Administrative Contact
> and the Technical Contact are different (and that neither's e-mail goes
> through the domain in question -- SPoF risk).
>
> You guys really should fix that, too.

Yes, a single person as point of contact is generally bad.  Typically
better to have multiple, and where feasible, use out-of-band (e.g. role
based) alias(es) that have zero dependencies upon the DNS in question.
"We" do in fact have an email alias for SF-LUG systems administrators
that has zero DNS dependencies upon SF-LUG.COM. - that could
potentially be used. (might not be suitable for whois admin contact, as
more limited and restricted access may be desired there - but probably
fine for SOA and/or whois technical contact)

Also, Jim Stockford - at least after the master and at least one slave
are in good functioning state again for SF-LUG.COM., let me know if you
want leads on potential additional slaves - might be slightly dated now,
but a fair while back I asked that question for BALUG, and got quite a
number of responses, some of them being good/excellent resources for
such.

Also, as to getting the SF-LUG.COM. master squared away again (or at least
back to as good a shape as it was in before the system swap-out), we do
have this (references/excerpts/slightly redacted):

< Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:57:47 -0800
< From: "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
< Subject: FYI, fresh full backup of sf-lug.com. "tower" at ...
< To: <redacted alias>@balug.org
<
< FYI, I've also placed a nice fresh backup of almost* everything*
< from the sf-lug.com "tower" box, at least presently (mounted
< ro,nosuid,nodev) under
< /var/local/balug/backup/0/tower
< on the Silicon Mechanics "vicki" dom0 host.
<
< Also, since UIDs/GIDs between the two systems generally don't match,
< the location is rather protected:
< # ls -ldba /var/local/balug/backup/0
< drwx------ 3 root root 72 2009-11-10 22:57 /var/local/balug/backup/0
< #
<
< *I ommitted stuff under:
< /tmp
< /tmpb
< /bootb
< and also skipped virtual and "empty" (or empty except for lost+found)
< filesystems; I also didn't back up any metadata (e.g. disk partitioning
< information, etc.)




From jim at well.com  Sun Nov 15 09:34:14 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:34:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets monday evening at cafe enchante from 6 to 8
	PM (or so)
Message-ID: <1258306454.6797.40.camel@jim-laptop>


   sf-lug meets tomorrow night, monday, at the 
cafe enchante on geary blvd at 26th ave in san 
francisco from 6 PM to 8 PM (or so). 





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Nov 15 12:31:11 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:31:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS & zone expiry (e.g. SF-LUG.COM. slave), etc.
Message-ID: <20091115123111.986421mkydjzvjus@webmail.rawbw.com>

So, ... what is that drop-dead deadline on SF-LUG.COM. DNS?  ... that
is, when the slave will expire the zone due to lack of available master?

We have, from ...
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007127.html
|$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t SOA sf-lug.com. +short
|ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2007102904 3600 3600 1209600 10800
                                                     ^^^^^^^
$ echo '1209600/60/60/24/7' | bc -l
2.00000000000000000000
$ echo '60*60*24*7*2' | bc -l
1209600
So ... precisely two weeks (without daylight/summer/standard time
changes or leap seconds).

We also have from ...
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007139.html
|$ ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
|-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 470 2009-11-11 18:29
|/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
If we presume that mtime is from the last zone transfer ... we don't
know the timezone for the above, but also happening to know
approximately when the "old" master was shutdown(8), it's reasonable to
presume the timezone is PST8PDT US/Pacific -0800 ... and if we also
presume the time is quite accurate (e.g. NTP synced), we then have a
drop-dead (zone expiry on slave) deadline of:
2009-11-25T18:29-0800
... not that one should wait that long to correct the situation with
the master (or that such situation should have even occurred as it has),
but, notwithstanding any issues with slave or its availability, slave
should continue to serve up the zone data and not expire it before
2009-11-25T18:29-0800 (but will expire it by 2009-11-25T18:30-0800).

Having a somewhat long expiry time can be advantageous - e.g. in
disaster scenarios ... but it can also have its downsides - notably
slaves (or former slaves) potentially continuing to serve up outdated
data beyond the time it is, or would have been useful.

As some other random data points, balug.org. has 3 week expiry on its
domains (including also 3 subdomains), my employer has 1 week expiry on
most of its domains - both the wholly owned subsidiary where I work (and
am one of the DNS administrators), and (where I'm not one of the DNS
administrators) the owning parent company (large company - over 100,000
employees - such large companies/organizations typically have separate
group(s) that will quite exclusively do DNS administration - such was
also the case with my former employer).

references:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007127.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007139.html
dig(1)
RFC 1034 Domain names - concepts and facilities:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1034.txt
RFC 1035 Domain names - implementation and specification
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Sun Nov 15 15:00:35 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 15:00:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>

I guess we are all clear that the particular case of Eldy does not
redistribute GPL code improperly. It's interesting to take the
opportunity to explore what rights copyleft is meant to protect, and
whether the GPL does a good job of it.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> You might find it of interest that the criterion of "has knowledge of
> and plays with fundamental internal Linux behaviour" doesn't hold water.
> (Yes, I know that's what Torvalds and some others talk about.)  It's
> apparent _why_ people think that:  The theory is that coders probably
> could not engineer that degree of close cooperation without copying code

I see two justifications for this "fundamental internals" criterion.
The first is just as you say: that people presume some code copying
must be involved, which is in fact generally the case. I agree that
the type of code copying is not necessarily copyright-protected so
that the module developer may not need a license at all (especially if
he were to re-write the needed header files).

The second, which I mostly see Linus arguing for, is that the binary
module is presumptively a derived work because it is only meaningful
the context of the original work it is derived from.  That is, it is
not a complete expression of an idea, but a modification (or
elaboration) of the expressions found in the original work. I'm not
sure how legally solid this argument is.  It would seem to imply that
if I make a modification to a vacuum cleaner design, and that original
design is under copyright, I cannot sell my modification without
permission.

To put a finer point on it: if the vacuum cleaner design had a clearly
demarcated interface for attachments, I could clearly distribute a
standalone attachment useful on any vacuum cleaner supporting the same
interface.  But if I am simply "tweaking" the internals of the vacuum
cleaner rather than "adding" to it, to the extent that my tweak is not
separable from the original, the tweaked design is a derived work.
Linus would say in the OLD days, the kernel module interface was so
clear and limited that module code might be considered separate from
kernel code; nowadays the interface exposes essentially EVERYTHING, so
module code is kernel code is GPL.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov 16 07:20:25 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:20:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> I guess we are all clear that the particular case of Eldy does not
> redistribute GPL code improperly. 

It's also important to note that the original complaint cited _zero_
reason to believe that Eldy is a derivative work of the Linux kernel,
beyond the fact that it's a proprietary application that runs on Linux.

Logically, if the original poster was alleging that Eldy is committing 
copyright violation against the kernel developers (what he called
"violating the GPL", if the GPL were a statute), then he would have to
lay the same charge against:

Oracle Corporation, for Oracle RDBMS
Sybase Corporation, for Sybase
IBM, for DB2
Sun Microsystems, for Star Office
Microsoft Corporation, for their beta release of NetShow for i386 Linux
Google, Inc. for Google Earth
Adobe Systems, for the Framemaker beta for i386 Linux, Acrobat Reader, 
   Adobe/Macromedia Flash, etc.
...and innumerable other companies that distribute proprietary code for
Linux.  And that nobody's ever thought to complain.

When one's line of reasoning leads to the logical conclusion that dozens 
or hundreds of major corporations are massively violating Torvalds and
company's copyrights, and yet nobody's bothered to get around to
complaining (or suing), then one should be considering the possibility of 
having made a fundamental error.


> It's interesting to take the opportunity to explore what rights
> copyleft is meant to protect, and whether the GPL does a good job of
> it.

There _are_ problem areas.  They have nothing to do with the present
example.  

> I see two justifications for this "fundamental internals" criterion.
> The first is just as you say: that people presume some code copying
> must be involved, which is in fact generally the case. I agree that
> the type of code copying is not necessarily copyright-protected so
> that the module developer may not need a license at all (especially if
> he were to re-write the needed header files).

Header files are, again, the very model of functional elements, as that
term is used in copyright law.

> The second, which I mostly see Linus arguing for, is that the binary
> module is presumptively a derived work because it is only meaningful
> the context of the original work it is derived from.

You're implicitly assuming that this assertion, if true, has some
relevance to copyright law.  It does not.

Don't take my word for it.  Read the caselaw.  The court decisions,
especially those of the US Supreme Court and District Courts, are
surprisingly easy to read and understand.



> That is, it is not a complete expression of an idea, but a
> modification (or elaboration) of the expressions found in the original
> work. I'm not sure how legally solid this argument is.  It would seem
> to imply that if I make a modification to a vacuum cleaner design, and
> that original design is under copyright, I cannot sell my modification
> without permission.

It would get dismissed as irrelevant to the legal issue.

And, by the way, you might have missed the point of the idea/expression
dichotomy:  

o  An idea (for a useful inventions) can, if it meets some criteria, 
   be the basis of a _patent_ application with supporting documentation 
   and a patent fee.  
o  A creative expressions, if put into fixed form, within a number of 
   categories of creative work including literary works (which is where 
   software is classed, believe it or not), will, if it meets some 
   criteria, create _copyright_ title automatically at the moment of 
   the work's creation, without any need for registration or fee.

You seem to have the two concepts muddled together.  Patent and
copyright law are wholly different areas of law.

> Linus would say in the OLD days, the kernel module interface was so
> clear and limited that module code might be considered separate from
> kernel code; nowadays the interface exposes essentially EVERYTHING, so
> module code is kernel code is GPL.

Again, this has absolutely nothing to do with real copyright law.
Sorry.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Nov 16 07:49:33 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:49:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: REMINDER: TOMORROW!: Tu 2009-11-17 Mark Terranova
	on Ubuntu	9.10 Karmic Koala
Message-ID: <20091116074933.891758ez84b0ie80@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: REMINDER: TOMORROW!: Tu 2009-11-17 Mark Terranova on Ubuntu  
9.10 Karmic Koala

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-11-17

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

For our 2009-11-17 BALUG meeting, we're excited to present:

2009-11-17 Mark Terranova on Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala[1]

Mark Terranova will be giving a talk about what is new in Ubuntu[2]'s
newest release - Karmic Koala.  He will also speak some about his
experiences with Local tech stuff.

Mark Terranova is a "West Coast Community-Developed-Software guy".  Mark
has regularly taught many types of computer classes specializing in the
benefits of Linux and Cross-Platform Software.

He has been involved with spreading Ubuntu for a while.  He has helped
organize Ubuntu Release Parties and other tech events that make it fun
- using beer, BBQ, and other ways to create a fun community.  He has
spent much time in Portland, Oregon working with FreeGeek.org[3].  Their
unique style helped him learn how to involve more people in computing.

This knowledge has helped him in his role as co-founder of Gidget
Kitchen[4] (GK).  "Gidget Kitchen donates computers, generally using
Ubuntu, to groups and individuals."  GK strives to make modern
technology simple, empowering, and easy for everyone to understand.  The
only requirement is "the ability to play well with others."

Mark blames his interest in technical things and electronics on his
father Michael.  "He gave me a Commodore 64 and helped me get my amateur
radio license (N6TBD) at an early age".

1. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KarmicKoala/TechnicalOverview
2. http://www.ubuntu.com/
3. http://www.freegeek.org/
4. http://www.gidgetkitchen.org/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

             rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they help ensure that we'll be
able to eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

             6:30pm
             Tuesday, November 17th, 2009 2009-11-17

             Four Seas Restaurant http://www.fourseasr.com/
             731 Grant Ave.
             San Francisco, CA 94108
             Easy PARKING:
             Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny http://www.sfpsg.com/

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org

http://www.balug.org/




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov 16 08:55:16 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:55:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <1258224445.6797.24.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1258054869.6420.41.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091112120456.15276gnn63vp95s0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091112131558.12403lwczlypz9c0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091114085618.GR21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<1258224445.6797.24.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091116165516.GB1982@linuxmafia.com>

Hi, Jim.  Good to hear from you.

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    we replaced the old machine with a new one. the 
> old machine was pretty much a classic unix box 
> (CentOS 4 or 5). the new machine uses debian XEN 
> to implement two virtual machines, one for balug, 
> the other for sf-lug (which is now using the 
> correct ip address). 

Um... I hope your mailing list posting (quoted above) wasn't intended to
close out the list of what I said you need to do.  You still need to do
those things.  Please consult my rundown of that matter, which I'll
re-quote (below) to correct typos.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm barking orders at you guys, but you
shouldn't move master nameservice for a domain to a new IP without
coordinating closely with your secondaries (which, again, should number
at least two, not just one).  Omitting that coordination is pretty much
guaranteed to break your DNS, which I'm assuming is deemed A Very Bad
Thing.  sf-lug.com's DNS is currently damaged and dangerously thin.  If
not corrected, is going to fail completely, when the secondary's
copy of the zonefile hits its expire limit.

In that area, it's kind of a good thing that you're not relying on the
sf-lug.COM domain very much, compared to sf-lug.ORG, but IMO you should
use this as a learning experience to help with handling of your
more-vital domain in the future.

>    i'll have to bring up the old machine and find 
> the dns files then copy them to the new machine. 

So, you're saying you retired the old nameserver entirely?  And the new
nameserver is on a different IP and doesn't yet have the old one's DNS
zonefiles (or presumably its nameserver configuration)?

Ideally, you would take a zone's master nameservice completely
down only when you're about to bring up its replacement.  You would have
shortened the TTL values in advance of changeover.  You would let your
secondaries know as soon as feasible about the new IP to point to, 
verify that zone transfers are working, and verify that the NS lines in
_both_ the served zonefiles and the WHOIS records are updated.

To be clear:  It's OK if master nameservice goes offline.  That's what
secondaries are for.  But you want to let your secondaries know what's
going on, and bring up replacement master nameservice before the expire
limit.

>    probably a poor idea to have a master dns 
> server on the box that the dns points to, yes? 

Um, no.  Why would that be a problem?  I'm sorry, but I don't follow
your reasoning.

Consider NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM, IP 198.144.195.186.  That nameserver and
its hostname are usable in DNS because the parent .COM zone has a record
for it.  Such a record is called a "glue record", and is what bootstraps
the process, preventing a chicken-and-egg problem where
NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM cannot be resolved because you would first have to
resolve NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM in order to ask it that question.

When I first attempted to use record "NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM" at a domain
registrar, I had to use the regisrar's Web interface to define that
entity as a valid nameserver and provide its IP.  Behind the scenes,
taking that action resulted in the registrar adding a glue record to 
the parent .COM zone's own zonefile.  Only _then_ was I permitted to
reference "NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM" in the domain's "Name Server" roster
within the domain record (with resulting change to the WHOIS) results.

You can observe the glue record directly, using dig.  First, find out
where the namservers for .COM are:

$ dig  -t ns  com.  +short 
A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
L.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
J.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
H.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
M.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
C.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
K.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
B.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
D.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
I.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
F.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
E.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
G.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
$

Now, ask one of those (I'll use the first of them) to ask about the NS
records for zone linuxmafia.com .  In this case, I'll omit the "+short" 
flag, because I want to call attention to the Additional Section data:

$ dig  -t ns  linuxmafia.com.  @A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.  

; <<>> DiG 9.4.2-P1 <<>> -t ns linuxmafia.com. @A.GTLD-SERVERS.NET.
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 41884
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 6
;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;linuxmafia.com.			IN	NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
linuxmafia.com.		172800	IN	NS	ns.primate.net.
linuxmafia.com.		172800	IN	NS	ns.tx.primate.net.
linuxmafia.com.		172800	IN	NS	ns1.linuxmafia.com.
linuxmafia.com.		172800	IN	NS	ns1.thecoop.net.
linuxmafia.com.		172800	IN	NS	ns2.linuxmafia.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns.primate.net.		172800	IN	A	198.144.194.12
ns.primate.net.		172800	IN	AAAA	2001:470:1f00:ffff::6b7
ns.tx.primate.net.	172800	IN	A	72.249.38.88
ns1.linuxmafia.com.	172800	IN	A	198.144.195.186
ns1.thecoop.net.	172800	IN	A	66.220.20.163
ns2.linuxmafia.com.	172800	IN	A	63.193.123.122

;; Query time: 138 msec
;; SERVER: 192.5.6.30#53(192.5.6.30)
;; WHEN: Mon Nov 16 08:21:39 2009
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 250
$


You'll notice that there are five nameservers for this domain.
NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM is the third one listed in the Answer Section.
(Order is not significant, nor is it in WHOIS results or domain
records.)   Notice that the Additional Section provides the IP address
for each of the five nameservers as "Oh, and by the way, you didn't ask
for this, but I'm throwing it in, in case you need it" data.  That is 
what is meant by "glue".  It's how the chicken-and-egg problem gets
averted.

By the way, I find it really, _really_ useful to annotate my nameserver
configuration file with comments.  In particular, I put in whose domain
it is (full contact data), what host each referenced IP address is, plus
contact information about the administrators of each nameserver (name,
e-mail address, and telephone number).  That way, you never have the
"Oh, dear, who are my secondaries and how do I reach them to tell them
I'm moving the master DNS to a new IP" problem.

Here is my snippet of /etc/bind/named.conf.local concerning
linuxmafia.com:


//For Rick Moen, rick at linuxmafia.com, 650-283-7902
zone "linuxmafia.com" {
        type master;
        file "/etc/bind/linuxmafia.com.zone";
        allow-query { any; };
        allow-transfer {
        //Drew Bertola <drew at drewb.com>, 408-123-4567
        //ns1.thecoop.net is:
        66.220.20.163;
        //was:  216.218.255.165;
        //Aaron T. Porter <atporter at primate.net>, 925-123-4567
        //http://www.lbl.gov/cgi-bin/ds/ds.cgi?include=n&peopleName=atporter
        //ns.primate.net is:
        198.144.194.12;
        //Aaron T. Porter <atporter at primate.net>, 925-123-4567
        //http://www.lbl.gov/cgi-bin/ds/ds.cgi?include=n&peopleName=atporter
        ////ns.on.primate.net is:
        //207.44.185.143;
        //ns.tx.primate.net is:
        72.249.38.88;
        //David Wolfskill <david at catwhisker.org>, 650-123-4567
        //ns2.linuxmafia.com aka ns.catwhisker.org is:
        63.193.123.122;
        };
};

Here's the snippet for sf-lug.com:

//For Nathan Kuriger, nathank at evilmonkeys.com, 415-123-4567, and
//Jim Stockford, jim at well.com, 415-123-4567
zone "sf-lug.com" {
        type slave; 
        file "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
        allow-query { any; };
        allow-transfer { none; };
        masters {
        //ns1.sf-lug.com is:
        208.96.15.252;
        };
};


(Most telephone numbers have been changed to "123-4567" for privacy,
as only some of those people make their telephone numbers public
information.)

I am of course reachable at e-mail address rick at linuxmafia.com, and
cellular tel. # 650-283-7902.  I recommend you use that, along with
information about what my IP is, in comment lines in your 
/etc/bind/named.conf.local file (or named.conf, or whatever), on the
master nameserver for sf-lug.com .

If you look at the WHOIS data for linuxmafia.com, you'll note that: 

(1) I cite e-mail address "rick at deirdre.net" (in my wife's domain) to
avoid having the domain contact be in-band for the domain it concerns.  
That is, it's important that the cited address be reachable even if the 
domain and its underlying hardware and/or network goes offline.  So,
"rick at deirdre.net" is picked because it's handled completely outside the
domain, machine, and network that serves linuxmafia.com.

(2) I carefully do not cite myself as the sole contact (which would
create a single point of failure problem), and have someone else as
Technical Contact.



>    i wish i could find a tutorial that succinctly 
> and completely explains the rudiments of setting 
> up dns for and on a linux system: this would 
> summarize the concepts and then specify the files 
> to create and/or modify and finally present 
> several examples to exemplify common use cases. 

I published a short article a few years ago in _Linux Gazette_ that
details how to do every variety of DNS _other_ than master authoritative
DNS, which is covered only in part.  I partially punted on that variety,
because it would take a long, very intricate article to cover how to do
it _properly_, i.e., to avoid common mistakes and explain why they are
mistakes.  http://linuxgazette.net/121/moen.html

I hope that is useful, despite my having punted on the details of master
authoritative DNS.


Here's that list of what you should do, to move a domain's master
namservice to a new IP:

  You need to closely coordinate with your DNS secondaries' sysadmins
  whenever you move your domain's master DNS to a different IP.  Send
  e-mail (not mailing list mail) to the guys who run your secondaries (in
  this case, just me), saying that a specified domain needs to be
  repointed to a new master IP.  You need to say when this should happen.
  You need to fix obsolete IPs in NS lines in the zone you're serving from
  the master.  You need to make sure the secondaries' IPs are all in the
  new master nameserver's allow-transfer ACL.  You need to verify that the
  secondary successfully has done an AXFR (zone transfer) from the new
  master IP, you need to query using dig to make sure master and slaves
  are serving the new S/N (query for the SOA).  Last, you then need to
  update the nameserver list in the domain record, which ensures that the
  parent zone (.com, in this case) has the correct glue records.

  Again, (non-mailing list) e-mail or telephone.






From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov 16 10:32:31 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:32:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG (& BALUG) DNS, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20091114212020.141854unlha7jr84@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.5.1258228802.27970.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091114212020.141854unlha7jr84@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091116183231.GV21475@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> There definitely were (and likely still are) some SNAFUs to be corrected
> (and things caught up, etc.) with the SF-LUG and BALUG related machine
> shuffling that happened 2009-11-11.

No worries.  I was just a bit alarmed that apparently the master DNS had
moved and the secondaries not notified at all by several days later,
which suggested that there might be other things needing nailing down.

> This is also an area where SF-LUG could benefit from some appropriate
> monitoring (e.g. Nagios) 

Yep.  Meanwhile, I actually have a lazy-ass way of getting a weekly
report via cron.  There are all _sorts_ of ways it can be improved, but
the point is that it's easy enough that I could implement it in five
minutes, and works to a basic degree, and is _actually implemented_, as
opposed to a perennial "Oh, we should implement monitoring one day"
wishlist.

This is one of the key lessons of system administration:  The
good-enough if half-assed solution that you actually do is better than
the really good one that you never get to. 


:r /etc/cron.weekly/mydomains


#!/bin/sh

# mydomains     Cron script to sanity-check my domain's SOA records at
#               all of its authoritative nameservers, as a quick and 
#               dirty way of making sure (1) they're all online and
#               (2) they're all serving up the same data (or at least
#               data with the same zonefile serial number).
#  
#               The script queries all five nameservers for their current
#               SOA value (for linuxmafia.com), and then uses awk to parse 
#               out of that verbose record just the S/N field, which is 
#               field #3.  The point is that you can visually spot offline 
#               or aberrant nameservers by their S/Ns being (respectively) 
#               missing or an out-of-step value.
#
#		Written by Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com)
#		$Id: cron.weekly,v 1.01 2009/05/19 20:18:05 rick

set -o errexit  #aka "set -e": exit if any line returns non-true value
set -o nounset  #aka "set -u": exit upon finding an uninitialised variable

test -x /usr/bin/mail || exit 0

dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} > /tmp/domains
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.TX.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} >> /tmp/domains
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS2.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'} >> /tmp/domains
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.THECOOP.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} >> /tmp/domains
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'} >> /tmp/domains

test -e /tmp/domains || exit 0

/usr/bin/mail -s "Domain linuxmafia.com SOA check" rick at linuxmafia.com < /tmp/domains




[domain record:]

> Yes, a single person as point of contact is generally bad.  

Name one where it's a _good_ idea, please.  

> Typically better to have multiple, and where feasible, use out-of-band
> (e.g. role based) alias(es) that have zero dependencies upon the DNS
> in question.      ^^^^^^^^^

No.  And BALUG should have already learned this lesson, when it got bit
by that mistake before.

When I eventually get around to writing my follow-up article about how
to do master authoritative DNS nameservice _well_, e-mail aliases
will be one of my top "seem like good ideas, but lead to diaster"
items.  There are two reasons:

1.  An e-mail alias in the WHOIS records constitutes a hidden mechanism
for redirection, such that the only people who can easily notice and
figure out breakage are the relative few people who have and use shell
access on the machine where the alias is defined.  A few years ago,
SVLUG nearly lost the svlug.org domain because Heather Stern, who
through a chain of bad-faith politics on the part of the domain
custodian had been (against the SVLUG president's orders) been given
domain ownership, against my advice defined all of the domain contacts
as mail aliases within her starshine.org domain.   Nobody but her knew
where the aliases pointed for the following year, and eventually nobody
knew that she'd inadvertantly broken those aliases during a machine
migration, so SVLUG didn't get the renewal notices -- exactly as I'd
warned.

Fortunately, anticipating the problem, I had been independently
monitoring the domain's expiration status, and paid for the renewal,
myself, at the last minute out of my own pocket.

As I mentioned, BALUG _should_ have already learned the above lesson,
from when it used a "role" e-mail address -- against my advice -- for 
the listadmin role on the BALUG mailing list.  I had insisted on my
listadmin participation -not- involve an alias, but rather my direct
address, so I kept getting notices -- but I discovered through sending
test e-mails that the _other_ listadmin e-mail address (alias) was
reaching nobody because (if memory serves) of changes at the mailbox to
which it redirected.

I'm disappointed to see this bad idea resurface.  It's a bad idea for
list administration; it's a bad idea in domain records for the same
reason.


2.  In 2009, mail reflected between SMTP systems via /etc/aliases or
~/.forward files has strong likelihood of rejection or deprecation
(classification as spam) by receiving mail systems, because it looks
like a forgery on account of the resulting mismatch between envelope
headers and internal "From:" headers.   (The above is true unless you
use a rewriting scheme like SRS,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sender_Rewriting_Scheme.)

By contrast, mailing list manager software differs in that it updates
the envelope headers when it remails, and the perception of forgery is
avoided.


> "We" do in fact have an email alias for SF-LUG systems administrators
> that has zero DNS dependencies upon SF-LUG.COM. - that could
> potentially be used.

Well, for the love of all that's holy, learn from the past and DON'T DO
THAT.  

I frankly suspect that the "let's use an alias for list administration
roles" bad idea might have been one of yours, but, at bare minimum, you
were involved when it happened.  C'mon, Michael!  For gosh sakes, can't
we at least make _new_ mistakes?




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Mon Nov 16 10:57:19 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:57:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):
>> The second, which I mostly see Linus arguing for, is that the binary
>> module is presumptively a derived work because it is only meaningful
>> the context of the original work it is derived from.
>
> You're implicitly assuming that this assertion, if true, has some
> relevance to copyright law. ?It does not.

Here is the relevance. Copyright allows me to control distribution of
my work, and derived works thereof. If I am interested to stop someone
from distributing a binary module referencing my work, then the
question of whether that module is derivative of my work is relevant
-- because if so I can get an injunction.

> Don't take my word for it. ?Read the caselaw. ?The court decisions,
> especially those of the US Supreme Court and District Courts, are
> surprisingly easy to read and understand.

Last I heard there has never been a ruling on whether binary modules
are derived works.

>> That is, it is not a complete expression of an idea, but a
>> modification (or elaboration) of the expressions found in the original
>> work. I'm not sure how legally solid this argument is. ?It would seem
>> to imply that if I make a modification to a vacuum cleaner design, and
>> that original design is under copyright, I cannot sell my modification
>> without permission.
>
> It would get dismissed as irrelevant to the legal issue.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this sentence... are you saying the
case against me would be dismissed because copyright does not cover
selling modifications to a design?  Design often does involve
copyrighted elements, If You Really Want To Get Into That.

> And, by the way, you might have missed the point of the idea/expression
> dichotomy:
>
> o ?An idea (for a useful inventions) can, if it meets some criteria,
> ? be the basis of a _patent_ application with supporting documentation
> ? and a patent fee.

Sorry if my example was unclear. I am interested in copyright
protection here, not patents. If you like, re-parse the example
substituting "blueprint for a vacuum cleaner" instead of "design for a
vacuum cleaner". I think you will find blueprints are covered by
copyright. At any rate the distinction I am trying to draw is between
an add-on and a modification, which, according to Torvalds and others,
has bearing on whether the work is derived -- and hence restricted in
distribution.

Here is a better example using a more characteristic medium for
creative expression.  I make a movie called "Dr. Z Goes to OSCON".
Rick watches it and says "That was OK but it needs more shots of Linus
Torvalds in his Speedo." So he produces a "patch" or what we would
call a "programmed re-edit", which consists of a list of timecodes
pointing to various spots in the movie where nothing exciting is
happening, and a set of clips to insert (which he owns) showing Linus
in his Speedo. Again, the re-edit contains ONLY the timecodes and
Rick's footage, NONE of the original film. Now if Rick tries to
distribute his re-edit I can say "Hey, that's a derived work, you need
my permission!" And Rick can say "No, I am not distributing any
elements of your film, just a list of timecodes (which are not
expressive) and some other footage I own." And a judge might say
"Sorry Rick, what you have produced is not a standalone work; it's a
modification of Jesse's work, so he can stop you from distributing
it."

Interestingly the REVERSE of this case, if Rick were to distribute a
programmed re-edit REMOVING all footage of Linus in his Speedo, is
perfectly legal under the Family Home Movie Act of 2005.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov 16 12:36:24 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 12:36:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091116203624.GC1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> Here is the relevance. Copyright allows me to control distribution of
> my work, and derived works thereof. If I am interested to stop someone
> from distributing a binary module referencing my work, then the
> question of whether that module is derivative of my work is relevant
> -- because if so I can get an injunction.

I think you missed my point.  Establishing in court that a second work
is meaningful only in the context of an older work does _nothing_
towards showing copyright infringement.  Nothing at all.   You claimed
such a showing makes the second work "presumptively a deriv[ative] work".  
That is just simply not true.


> > Don't take my word for it. ?Read the caselaw. ?The court decisions,
> > especially those of the US Supreme Court and District Courts, are
> > surprisingly easy to read and understand.
> 
> Last I heard there has never been a ruling on whether binary modules
> are derived works.

Again, the term is _derivative_ work.

There isn't any ruling about whether binary modules of an existing
codebase are automatically derivative works of it, and there never will
be, because anyone motivated and funded enough to hire a copyright
attorney is going to hear that that's a losing tactic, so the suit will
not be brought.

But, anyway, you seem to have gone some distance out of the way, again,
to ignore my point.  You can, and apparently should, read some of the
controlling cases that have defined within USA copyright law what is a
derivative work, and what is not.  They are quite easy to read -- and
you will observe what _actual_ conceptual tests are set up for judges to
determine that question, and what are not.


> > It would get dismissed as irrelevant to the legal issue.
> 
> Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this sentence... are you saying the
> case against me would be dismissed because copyright does not cover
> selling modifications to a design?  Design often does involve
> copyrighted elements, If You Really Want To Get Into That.

No, that is not what I said.  

You seemed to be talking about both ideas and creative expressions.
("That is, it is not a complete expression of an idea, but a
modification or elaboration of the expressions found in the original
work.")  Copyright does not, cannot, cover ideas.



> Sorry if my example was unclear. I am interested in copyright
> protection here, not patents.

Then, you shouldn't start out talking about ideas.


> If you like, re-parse the example substituting "blueprint for a vacuum
> cleaner" instead of "design for a vacuum cleaner". I think you will
> find blueprints are covered by copyright.

A particular blueprint is eligible for copyright in recognition of the
creative content of its instantiation as a work in fixed, tangible form
(as drawn on paper).  Other people who duplicate it verbatim without
permission will be committing the tort of copyright violation. 

However, the particular way in which the kitchen is over the garage and
the back porch does double duty as a greenhouse are _ideas_.  I can
possess a lawfully purchased copy of your blueprint, and draw my own
blueprint that arranges the rooms in almost exactly the same way, and
solves the problems of heating and cooling in exactly the same way, and
will be completely innocent of copyright violation, because I have
implemented ideas rather than doing either literal or non-literal
copying of expressive elements.  To the extent that I've copied any
elements at all, they were functional rather than expressive.

Being ultra-cautious, I would rearrange the rooms just a little, just so
that no far-fetched theory of yours, that you somehow enjoyed copyright
over the creative arrangement of where the laundry room sits relative to
the master bedroom, could even in theory work.  However, because there's 
only so many ways to arrange rooms in most circumstances, and because 
the notion of such coverage would be a tough sell at all, I'd be pretty
thoroughly safe just eyeballing your blueprint and drawing pretty nearly
exactly the same design.

In any event, you seemed to be arguing, to further use your analogy,
that as designer of the blueprint for a particularly distinctive sort of
house, any compatible carport blueprints that are "merely a
modification or elaboration" of the house design, or are designed to
"plugin" to it, or are designed solely to work with it, are
automatically derivatives of the original copyrighted blueprint.  
But, no, that is not the case.


> At any rate the distinction I am trying to draw is between
> an add-on and a modification, which, according to Torvalds and others,
> has bearing on whether the work is derived -- and hence restricted in
> distribution.

For reasons cited, that is a pile of hooey.  Keep repeating it, and it
sadly still remains a pile of hooey.


> Here is a better example using a more characteristic medium for
> creative expression.  I make a movie called "Dr. Z Goes to OSCON".
> Rick watches it and says "That was OK but it needs more shots of Linus
> Torvalds in his Speedo." So he produces a "patch" or what we would
> call a "programmed re-edit", which consists of a list of timecodes
> pointing to various spots in the movie where nothing exciting is
> happening, and a set of clips to insert (which he owns) showing Linus
> in his Speedo. Again, the re-edit contains ONLY the timecodes and
> Rick's footage, NONE of the original film. Now if Rick tries to
> distribute his re-edit...

Just to clarify, what you are calling a "re-edit" is not, in fact, a
re-edit.  It's a set of instructions by which some recipient could 
produce one.

> I can say "Hey, that's a derived work, you need my permission!" 

You seem to have somehow not gotten this:  The expression in law is
"derviative", not "derived".

> And Rick can say "No, I am not distributing any elements of your film,
> just a list of timecodes (which are not expressive) and some other
> footage I own." And a judge might say "Sorry Rick, what you have
> produced is not a standalone work; it's a modification of Jesse's
> work, so he can stop you from distributing it."

The term "standalone work" is not known in copyright law.  The concept
of "modification of" is not relevant.  It's derivative works that are
the issue.  

Your theoretical does not appear to describe a derivative work.




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Nov 16 13:11:07 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 13:11:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091116211107.GC1780@sonic.net>

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:57:19AM -0800, Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> Here is a better example using a more characteristic medium for
> creative expression.  I make a movie called "Dr. Z Goes to OSCON".
> Rick watches it and says "That was OK but it needs more shots of Linus
> Torvalds in his Speedo." So he produces a "patch" or what we would
> call a "programmed re-edit", which consists of a list of timecodes
> pointing to various spots in the movie where nothing exciting is
> happening, and a set of clips to insert (which he owns) showing Linus
> in his Speedo. Again, the re-edit contains ONLY the timecodes and
> Rick's footage, NONE of the original film. Now if Rick tries to
> distribute his re-edit I can say "Hey, that's a derived work, you need
> my permission!" And Rick can say "No, I am not distributing any
> elements of your film, just a list of timecodes (which are not
> expressive) and some other footage I own." And a judge might say
> "Sorry Rick, what you have produced is not a standalone work; it's a
> modification of Jesse's work, so he can stop you from distributing
> it."

Acutally, the above sounds a _lot_ like the concept used by RIFFTRAX
(created by one of the folks who used to be part of
Mystery Science Theater 3000).

Just sayin'.  Back to ignoring email and doing work...

-bill!



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Mon Nov 16 14:58:38 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:58:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <20091116203624.GC1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116203624.GC1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911161458m2ed76d81y51d00b5db755a92e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Establishing in court that a second work
> is meaningful only in the context of an older work does _nothing_
> towards showing copyright infringement.

Thank you for clarifying your point.  I'd like to investigate this
further because I would imagine there are legal opinions to the
contrary.  For instance "fan fiction" is considered derivative work in
this country, trademark issues aside, even with no copying from the
original. My interpretation is that this is because it is intimately
tied to the protected work. I don't say it's GOOD that distributing
fan fiction is enjoined, but AFAIK it is.

> You can, and apparently should, read some of the
> controlling cases that have defined within USA copyright law what is a
> derivative work, and what is not.

It would be great if you could cite a particular case; I gather from
your "Licensing and Law" page the case history is quite vast, and I'm
unlikely to finish it in time to continue this discussion.

>> > It would get dismissed as irrelevant to the legal issue.
>>
>> Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this sentence... are you saying the
>> case against me would be dismissed because copyright does not cover
>> selling modifications to a design?

> No, that is not what I said.

Sure, please tell me when you say "It would get dismissed as
irrelevant to the legal issue" what you mean by "it" and what you mean
by "the legal issue". I was just guessing, apparently incorrectly.
Like a binary module, the sentence only makes sense in context :-)

> You seemed to be talking about both ideas and creative expressions.
> ("That is, it is not a complete expression of an idea, but a
> modification or elaboration of the expressions found in the original
> work.") ?Copyright does not, cannot, cover ideas.

You're right in that we are talking about derivatives of an EXPRESSION
when we talk about derivative works. It's hard to talk about
expressions without mentioning ideas because If You Really Want To Get
Into It expressions are also ideas: there's not really a firm boundary
between them. Don't think if it's an idea, it can't also be an
expression of another idea. Quoting Judge Learned Hand in the summary
opinion of Computer Associates v. Altai: "Nobody has ever been able to
fix that boundary, and nobody ever can."

http://www.bitlaw.com/source/cases/copyright/altai.html#1)%20Idea%20vs.%20Expression%20Dichotom

ANYWAY those aren't the waters I'm trying to muddy; we agree there is
PROTECTED EXPRESSION in software, and we are concerned with WORKS
DERIVATIVE of that expression.

> I can possess a lawfully purchased copy of your blueprint, and draw my own
> blueprint that arranges the rooms in almost exactly the same way

Yes indeed, you can draw your own house, just as you can write your
own kernel. That's an excellent way to avoid copyright infringement.
Let's talk about the case where you don't want to do this; you want to
use MY work and publish a modification to it.

> In any event, you seemed to be arguing, to further use your analogy,
> that as designer of the blueprint for a particularly distinctive sort of
> house, any compatible carport blueprints that are "merely a
> modification or elaboration" of the house design, or are designed to
> "plugin" to it, or are designed solely to work with it, are
> automatically derivatives of the original copyrighted blueprint.
> But, no, that is not the case.

Right indeed that's not the case... you are free to make a
loosely-coupled "add-on" to my design and say "insert this between
pages 12 and 13". You might even get away with saying "replace
everything in the middle section of page 2 with this." But if you say
"mine is just like his except the windows are slightly larger and the
door is smaller, and I use red lines for supporting walls instead of
blue" -- you run into some difficulties.

First of all how do you even make a concrete expression (blueprint in
this case) of your idea without copying from me? Yes you could publish
a high-level description like the above, but if you actually made it
into a drawing you'd have to copy.  Consider Torvalds' claim that you
can publish the SOURCE of a Linux module under any non-GPL compatible
license you want -- it's only the concrete binary instantiation that's
derivative. That's a very surprising claim to me! Most of my
motivation for engaging in this discussion is to try to understand
this claim, and I don't take for granted that the claim is true.  So
thanks for arguing this with me!

>> And Rick can say "No, I am not distributing any elements of your film,
>> just a list of timecodes (which are not expressive) and some other
>> footage I own." And a judge might say "Sorry Rick, what you have
>> produced is not a standalone work; it's a modification of Jesse's
>> work, so he can stop you from distributing it."
>
> The term "standalone work" is not known in copyright law. ?The concept
> of "modification of" is not relevant. ?It's derivative works that are
> the issue.
>
> Your theoretical does not appear to describe a derivative work.

Interesting. If it's not a derivative work, then on what grounds can I
enjoin you from distributing it? Because I very much can under US
copyright law, by my reading. If you deny that's a derivative work, I
think your opinion is in conflict with 17 U.S.C. 110(11) as
established by the previously mentioned Family Home Movie Act of 2005.
 This grants permission to distribute content edits ONLY in the case
of removing material, and specifically "does not include the addition
of audio or video content that is performed or displayed over or in
place of existing content in a motion picture".

Now why is distributing a set of your own clips plus a timecode a
violation of my copyright? BECAUSE IT'S INTIMATELY TIED TO MY
COPYRIGHTED WORK. You claim this concept has no legal meaning; to me
this question is at the crux of whether the GPL can really legally
enforce the "share and share alike" philosophy it is aiming for.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Nov 16 19:39:45 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:39:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911161458m2ed76d81y51d00b5db755a92e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091114005928.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911151500q6b228181i3b0f94f21a39a3be@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116152025.GZ1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911161057s4e3cd415me474a0e4e3f449b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091116203624.GC1982@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911161458m2ed76d81y51d00b5db755a92e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091117033945.GE1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 12:36 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> > Establishing in court that a second work
> > is meaningful only in the context of an older work does _nothing_
> > towards showing copyright infringement.
> 
> Thank you for clarifying your point.  I'd like to investigate this
> further because I would imagine there are legal opinions to the
> contrary.

Not by judges.  ;->

But go ahead and have opinions to the contrary without bothering to read
the relevant caselaw.  Why should you be different from most
computerists on the Internet?

> For instance "fan fiction" is considered derivative work in
> this country, trademark issues aside, even with no copying from the
> original.

Actually, it's (that is, typical examples are) considered derivative
work under copyright law _specifically because of copying_ of creative
elements from the original.

I warned you that copying embroiled in copyright issues can be either
literal or non-literal.  Remember?  See the Computer Associates, Inc., 
vs. Altai decision.

Unauthorised fanfic in which characters named Batman and Robin have
adventures, G-rated or not, in Gotham City are violations of DC Comics's 
copyrights because of court recognition of various expressive elements
in the way those characters were written by Bob Kane and friends --
despite lack of literal, verbatim re-use of Kane and co's panel drawings
and dialogue. 



> My interpretation is that this is because it is intimately
> tied to the protected work.

Your interpretation is mistaken.  It's not because the second work is
"meaningful only in the context of" the first one, but rather because of
unauthorised use of an excessive number of copyright-covered expressive
elements without a sufficient positive defence.

(Aqua's _Barbie Girl_ was able to win against a copyright _and_
trademark suit from Mattel, Inc., because the reuse of character elements 
was held to be lawful fair use under copyright law, and as parodic
nominative use under trademark law.  Judge Alex Kozinki threw out
Mattel's suit with the comment "The parties are advised to chill.")

 

> It would be great if you could cite a particular case; I gather from
> your "Licensing and Law" page the case history is quite vast, and I'm
> unlikely to finish it in time to continue this discussion.

It is not "quite vast", and the entries relevant to derivative works and
copyright law are pretty obvious.  You could bother to look.  Do you
think I'm your personal free-of-charge research librarian?


> > No, that is not what I said.
> 
> Sure, please tell me when you say "It would get dismissed as
> irrelevant to the legal issue" what you mean by "it" and what you mean
> by "the legal issue". I was just guessing, apparently incorrectly.
> Like a binary module, the sentence only makes sense in context :-)

Sorry, insufficient time.  If you don't remember the context for your
own question, look it up in the archives.


> 
> You're right in that we are talking about derivatives of an EXPRESSION
> when we talk about derivative works. It's hard to talk about
> expressions without mentioning ideas because If You Really Want To Get
> Into It expressions are also ideas: there's not really a firm boundary
> between them. 

Oh, for heaven's sake, man.  Look, your remark suggested that you had
the two concepts confused.  That's what I meant, and it seems to have
been justified.


> Quoting Judge Learned Hand in the summary opinion of Computer
> Associates v. Altai: "Nobody has ever been able to fix that boundary,
> and nobody ever can."

Yes, I've read CAI v. Altai, too.  You seem to have missed the point: 
It's no more a laser-bright line than any of the other key distinctions
in law, but it _is_ the entire foundation of the distinction between
copyright and patents -- and is the origin of the non-copyrightability
of elements of a creative work deemed functional or required for
compatibility as opposed to expresssive.


> Yes indeed, you can draw your own house, just as you can write your
> own kernel. That's an excellent way to avoid copyright infringement.
> Let's talk about the case where you don't want to do this; you want to
> use MY work and publish a modification to it.

Oh very well.  Architect A creates a blueprint and files it with the
county.  Architect B (that would be me, in your hypothetical) finds that
blueprint, says "Say, that's really nice", brings a copy home, feeds it
through an utterly humongous digital scanner, and somehow ray-traces it
so as to bring it functionally back into AutoCAD with very little
change.  He re-does some stuff, adds some things, files it with the
county as a plan for a new house.  Architect A (that would be you, in
your hypothetical) sees it, spots what he thinks are damning and
outrageous borrowings, and files suit for alleged tort of copyright
infringement.  Some lucky judges gets to hear the parties.

The judge would probably take strong meds for his/her resulting
migraine, then bring in some professors from the local architecture
school to give a micro-course on architectural design and use of
AutoCAD.  His Honour would be seeking to try to learn _really quickly_
what is and is not reasonably deemed a creative aspect of a building
blueprint.  Moreover and probably earlier than that, he'd go and enrich
Lexis quite a bit, finding and reading applicable precedents.  For that
matter, architects A & B's lawyers would likewise be shovelling ducats
at Lexis, each trying to argue precedents they can argue to be similar
to the way they want the case to work out.

I'm not an architect, nor am I likely to spend a small fortune
researching architecture copyright litigation just to discuss the
hypothetical that you haven't actually bothered to flesh out, so I'll
just say that the judge is going to be guided by the same leading cases
as would apply in any other copyright infringment case.  Which you can
read, if interested.

Please don't ask me to read blueprints -- or tea leaves -- to try to
figure out what are expressive elements thereof. 


> > In any event, you seemed to be arguing, to further use your analogy,
> > that as designer of the blueprint for a particularly distinctive sort of
> > house, any compatible carport blueprints that are "merely a
> > modification or elaboration" of the house design, or are designed to
> > "plugin" to it, or are designed solely to work with it, are
> > automatically derivatives of the original copyrighted blueprint.
> > But, no, that is not the case.
> 
> Right indeed that's not the case... you are free to make a
> loosely-coupled "add-on" to my design and say "insert this between
> pages 12 and 13". You might even get away with saying "replace
> everything in the middle section of page 2 with this." But if you say
> "mine is just like his except the windows are slightly larger and the
> door is smaller, and I use red lines for supporting walls instead of
> blue" -- you run into some difficulties.

If you literally or non-literally copy an excessive number of expressive
elements of a copyright-covered creative work without permission, and
don't fit into one of the delineated exception as an affirmative
defence, then you are indeed likely to lose an infringement case.  I am
not an architect, nor have I done any reading on the law of
(specifically) _blueprint_ copyright infringement, so, if you want to
know in detail -- beyond the guidelines of leading cases -- what are
considered expressive elements in building drawings, you'll have to hire
a very specialised attorney.  Good luck with that.


> First of all how do you even make a concrete expression (blueprint in
> this case) of your idea without copying from me?

You're the guy supposedly constructing the hypothetical.  Why are you
asking _me_ questions about it?

> Yes you could publish a high-level description like the above, but if
> you actually made it into a drawing you'd have to copy.  

See above.  Free your mind of the assumption that copyright law somehow
bans anything that Jesse Zbikowski _calls_ "copying".  Read the law about
what copyright covers, and what are deemed expresive and what are not.


> Consider Torvalds' claim that you can publish the SOURCE of a Linux
> module under any non-GPL compatible license you want -- it's only the
> concrete binary instantiation that's derivative.

I have no idea why you're raising this.  But, if Torvalds said that,
then he was voicing nonsense.  He's actually said quite a bit of
nonsense about copyright over the years -- much of it stuff that
contradicts other stuff he's said at other times.  He has said less
nonsense lately, presumably on account of better access to legal advice
at Linux Foundation.



> Interesting. If it's not a derivative work, then on what grounds can I
> enjoin you from distributing it? Because I very much can under US
> copyright law, by my reading. If you deny that's a derivative work, I
> think your opinion is in conflict with 17 U.S.C. 110(11) as
> established by the previously mentioned Family Home Movie Act of 2005.

Not so fast.

You spoke of a work consisting of _just_ a series of timecodes plus
independent footage, but none of the original work.

Family Home Movie Act of 2005 (written into law as 17 U.S.C. 110
paragraph 11) says that making use of _literal copying of parts_ of the
original audio or video work to make a new audio or video work is OK if
the original copy used is otherwise authorised and the borrowed elements
are "imperceptible" and no fixed copy of the new work remains at the end
of the process.

So that is quite different from what you said.  Unless perhaps the term
"timecode" means "non-trivial portion of the original work's expressive
content, literally copied".  

> Now why is distributing a set of your own clips plus a timecode a
> violation of my copyright? BECAUSE IT'S INTIMATELY TIED TO MY
> COPYRIGHTED WORK. 

You should read 17 U.S.C. 110(11) before making dumb and sweeping claims
about it.

Anyhow, would you mind going and getting a different hobby, other than 
dreging up endless amounts of bullshit about copyleft licensing?  I need
to get some work done.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov 17 00:09:38 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:09:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <mailman.167.1258390518.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.167.1258390518.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091117000938.26515v0r53yi8ow0@webmail.rawbw.com>

My comments, below, in-line

references/excerpts:
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:55:16 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
>
>>    we replaced the old machine with a new one. the
>> old machine was pretty much a classic unix box
>> (CentOS 4 or 5). the new machine uses debian XEN
>> to implement two virtual machines, one for balug,
>> the other for sf-lug (which is now using the
>> correct ip address).
>
> Um... I hope your mailing list posting (quoted above) wasn't intended to
> close out the list of what I said you need to do.  You still need to do
> those things.  Please consult my rundown of that matter, which I'll
> re-quote (below) to correct typos.

Yes, definitely still stuff to be done (I keep hoping Jim or someone
else will get SF-LUG.COM. DNS squared away before the secondary expires
the zone ... but if the timing gets too close on that, I plan to correct
it - and in the meantime Jim Stockford and/or other SF-LUG.COM.
systems/DNS administrators can contact me if they need assistance or
have questions).

> I'm sorry if I sound like I'm barking orders at you guys, but you
> shouldn't move master nameservice for a domain to a new IP without
> coordinating closely with your secondaries (which, again, should number
> at least two, not just one).  Omitting that coordination is pretty much
> guaranteed to break your DNS, which I'm assuming is deemed A Very Bad
> Thing.  sf-lug.com's DNS is currently damaged and dangerously thin.  If
> not corrected, is going to fail completely, when the secondary's
> copy of the zonefile hits its expire limit.

Actually, by coincidence, turns out the "new" (substituted) master DNS
server is ... well, will be anyway, on the same IP (host is there, but
last I checked it's not yet serving up DNS nor particularly being DNS
for SF-LUG.COM.).

> In that area, it's kind of a good thing that you're not relying on the
> sf-lug.COM domain very much, compared to sf-lug.ORG, but IMO you should
> use this as a learning experience to help with handling of your
> more-vital domain in the future.
>
>>    i'll have to bring up the old machine and find
>> the dns files then copy them to the new machine.

And why would one need to do that?  As mentioned off-list (in email sent
Date:   Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:57:47 -0800) and also in:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007146.html
we have:
< Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:57:47 -0800
< From: "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
< Subject: FYI, fresh full backup of sf-lug.com. "tower" at ...
< To: <redacted alias>@balug.org
<
< FYI, I've also placed a nice fresh backup of almost* everything*
< from the sf-lug.com "tower" box, at least presently (mounted
< ro,nosuid,nodev) under
< /var/local/balug/backup/0/tower
< on the Silicon Mechanics "vicki" dom0 host.
<
< Also, since UIDs/GIDs between the two systems generally don't match,
< the location is rather protected:
< # ls -ldba /var/local/balug/backup/0
< drwx------ 3 root root 72 2009-11-10 22:57 /var/local/balug/backup/0
< #
<
< *I ommitted stuff under:
< /tmp
< /tmpb
< /bootb
< and also skipped virtual and "empty" (or empty except for lost+found)
< filesystems; I also didn't back up any metadata (e.g. disk partitioning
< information, etc.)
So, ... with a little poking around in there, one can find all the
earlier master configuration bits.
I'll post (separately), in a bit, some information on earlier 2009-02
DNS problem ... fair bit of overlap, so that might be
interesting/informative for folks to look/glance over - especially if
they didn't see it earlier.  Glancing that over that makes locating the
relevant file bits even easier, ... but short of that, not too hard to
find them:
//I show my added comments on line(s) starting with //
# ifconfig | fgrep inet\ addr; hostname --fqdn; who am I; id
           inet addr:208.96.15.250  Bcast:208.96.15.255  Mask:255.255.255.248
           inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
vicki.sf-lug.com
mpaoli   pts/0        2009-11-12 05:14 (198.144.194.236)
uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=0(root)
//So, that's the host referenced where I mentioned the quite full backup
//was placed, and we see I'm logged in as mpaoli and running as root (e.g.
//used sudo to become root).
# cd /var/local/balug/backup/0/tower && pwd -P
/var/local/balug/backup/0/tower
//the location of the backup, and checking that we got more-or-less
//where we expected to get to
# mount | fgrep backup
/dev/mapper/vg--balug-backup on /var/local/balug/backup type reiserfs  
(ro,nosuid,nodev,noatime)
//just peeking at filesystem and mount options - matches what was
//reported earlier
//so, we look around for some likely init stuff
//here > is PS2, not email quoting
# 2>>/dev/null find etc/*.d -follow \( \
> -name '*named*' -o \
> -name '*bind*' -o \
> -name '*dns*' \) -type f -print |
> fgrep -v -i balug
etc/init.d/named
etc/init.d/ypbind
etc/init.d/winbind
etc/log.d/conf/services/named.conf
etc/log.d/scripts/services/named
etc/logrotate.d/named
etc/rc0.d/K35winbind
etc/rc0.d/K87named
etc/rc0.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc1.d/K35winbind
etc/rc1.d/K87named
etc/rc1.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc2.d/S13named
etc/rc2.d/K35winbind
etc/rc2.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc3.d/S13named
etc/rc3.d/K35winbind
etc/rc3.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc4.d/S13named
etc/rc4.d/K35winbind
etc/rc4.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc5.d/S13named
etc/rc5.d/K35winbind
etc/rc5.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc6.d/K35winbind
etc/rc6.d/K87named
etc/rc6.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc0.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc0.d/K87named
etc/rc.d/rc0.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc1.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc1.d/K87named
etc/rc.d/rc1.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc2.d/S13named
etc/rc.d/rc2.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc2.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S13named
etc/rc.d/rc3.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc3.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc4.d/S13named
etc/rc.d/rc4.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc4.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S13named
etc/rc.d/rc5.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc5.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/rc6.d/K35winbind
etc/rc.d/rc6.d/K87named
etc/rc.d/rc6.d/K73ypbind
etc/rc.d/init.d/named
etc/rc.d/init.d/ypbind
etc/rc.d/init.d/winbind
//our default run level is?
# grep '^[^#].*default' etc/inittab
id:5:initdefault:
//knowing a bit of ye olde tower box history, we happen to know that it
//should have the proper setup to (re)start the SF-LUG.COM. DNS upon
//reboot, hence we look under ...
# 2>>/dev/null find etc/rc.d/rc5.d -follow \( -name '*named*' -o -name
\> '*bind*' -o -name '*dns*' \) -type f -print | fgrep -v -i balug |
> fgrep -v yp | fgrep -v win
etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S13named
# ls -l etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S13named
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 15 2009-11-11 00:31 etc/rc.d/rc5.d/S13named ->  
../init.d/named
# ls -l etc/rc.d/init.d/named
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5396 2007-02-07 03:35 etc/rc.d/init.d/named
# fgrep sysconfig etc/rc.d/init.d/named
[ -r /etc/sysconfig/network ] && . /etc/sysconfig/network
[ -r /etc/sysconfig/named ] && . /etc/sysconfig/named
# grep '^[^#]' etc/sysconfig/named
ROOTDIR=/var/named/chroot
//and etc/rc.d/init.d/named gets a bit messy, but in part, we have:
start() {
         if [ -n "${ROOTDIR}" -a "x${ROOTDIR}" != "x/" ]; then
                 OPTIONS="${OPTIONS} -t ${ROOTDIR}"
            daemon /usr/sbin/named -u named ${OPTIONS};
//so, looking a bit further ...
# find var/named/chroot -type f -print
var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf.rpmsave
var/named/chroot/etc/rndc.key
var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
var/named/chroot/etc/localtime
var/named/chroot/var/run/named/named.pid
var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
var/named/chroot/var/named/named.zero
var/named/chroot/var/named/named.ip6.local
var/named/chroot/var/named/localdomain.zone
var/named/chroot/var/named/named.broadcast
var/named/chroot/var/named/named.local
var/named/chroot/var/named/slaves/evilmonkeys.com
var/named/chroot/var/named/localhost.zone
var/named/chroot/var/named/.sf-lug.com.swp
var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com.SAFOLD
var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com.SAF
var/named/chroot/var/named/named.ca
# fgrep directory var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
         directory "/var/named";
# fgrep -C 4 -i sf-lug.com var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
         masters { 69.17.44.159; };
         allow-query { any; };
};

zone "sf-lug.com" IN {
         type master;
         file "sf-lug.com";
         allow-transfer { slaves; };
         allow-query { any; };
         notify yes;
};
# cat var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
$TTL 86400
$ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
@       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
                         2007102904      ;Serial
                         3600            ;refresh period
                         3600            ;retry period
                         1209600         ;expire period
                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
;
         IN      NS      ns1.sf-lug.com.
         IN      NS      ns2.sf-lug.com.
;
         IN      A       208.96.15.252
         IN      MX      5 mail.sf-lug.com.
         IN      TXT     "v=spf1 a mx -all"
;
www     IN      A       208.96.15.252
mail    IN      A       208.96.15.252
;
ns1     IN      A       208.96.15.252
ns2     IN      A       198.144.195.186

#
//anyway, that should be sufficient basic data (but not a full how-to)
//on what's needed to get SF-LUG.COM. DNS operational again.

> So, you're saying you retired the old nameserver entirely?  And the new
> nameserver is on a different IP and doesn't yet have the old one's DNS
> zonefiles (or presumably its nameserver configuration)?

Approximately, ... totally new (at least to that IP) host, but (mostly
by coincidence) still same IP:
$ (cd ~/.ssh && ssh-add -t 5m id_dsa.sf-lug.com.)
Enter passphrase for id_dsa.sf-lug.com.:
Identity added: id_dsa.sf-lug.com. (id_dsa.sf-lug.com.)
Lifetime set to 300 seconds
$ ssh -ax -l mpaoli 208.96.15.252 'umask 077 && { hostname
> /sbin/ifconfig | fgrep "inet addr"; }'; ssh-add -D
Address 208.96.15.252 maps to 208.96.15.252.servepath.com, but this  
does not map back to the address - POSSIBLE BREAKIN ATTEMPT!
sflug
           inet addr:208.96.15.252  Bcast:208.96.15.255  Mask:255.255.255.248
           inet addr:208.96.15.251  Bcast:208.96.15.255  Mask:255.255.255.248
           inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
All identities removed.
$

After the physical system swap outs, the Xen sflug domU was initially
set up on 208.96.15.251, and another domU on 208.96.15.252 ... but
after a bit, we decided (since we happened to get the same subnet
again) to change that, moving that other domU off of 208.96.15.252, so
sflug could reclaim that 208.96.15.252 IP - thus not needing to change
IP of the SF-LUG.COM. DNS master.  I also indicated to Jim Stockford,
that the sflug domU could probably just add the 208.96.15.252, and
continue to hang onto the 208.96.15.251 IP (which it had started with)
- at least until the dust settled - and then 208.96.15.251 could be
relinquished from the sflug domU at a later date (no real rush on that).
Most or all of those particular bits of communication happened off-list.

> Ideally, you would take a zone's master nameservice completely
> down only when you're about to bring up its replacement.  You would have
> shortened the TTL values in advance of changeover.  You would let your
> secondaries know as soon as feasible about the new IP to point to,
> verify that zone transfers are working, and verify that the NS lines in
> _both_ the served zonefiles and the WHOIS records are updated.

Yes, ... not quite the situation in this case.  Even more ideally, the
new master would be up before the old master goes down - slaves could
potentially even be configured with both masters, after the new master
is up, and then old master removed from slaves configuration around the
time of the bringing down of the old master.  In any case, not exactly
the scenario we're dealing with here.  In our case, same IP for master,
but new host - ideally the new host should have been quite fully ready
to take over as DNS master when it was brought up - obviously that
wasn't (and last I peeked still isn't) the case.

> To be clear:  It's OK if master nameservice goes offline.  That's what
> secondaries are for.  But you want to let your secondaries know what's
> going on, and bring up replacement master nameservice before the expire
> limit.

Well, it *can* be 'okay' ... in this case it's also not so good, because
the master is also an NS for the zone - so that introduces
timeouts/latencies on DNS queries, and reduces redundancy ... but DNS is
designed to withstand that ... and does (at least until slave(s) expire
the zone).

>>    probably a poor idea to have a master dns
>> server on the box that the dns points to, yes?
>
> Um, no.  Why would that be a problem?  I'm sorry, but I don't follow
> your reasoning.

That comment caught my eye earlier, ... perhaps I should have commented
on it or addressed it, but didn't ... anyway, Rick Moen well addressed
that.

> By the way, I find it really, _really_ useful to annotate my nameserver
> configuration file with comments.  In particular, I put in whose domain
> it is (full contact data), what host each referenced IP address is, plus
> contact information about the administrators of each nameserver (name,
> e-mail address, and telephone number).  That way, you never have the
> "Oh, dear, who are my secondaries and how do I reach them to tell them
> I'm moving the master DNS to a new IP" problem.

Absolutely!  Excellent point.  I did scrutinize the sf-lug.com. old
master zone file before cat(1)ing it and showing the full output here.
Some of the BALUG.ORG. (at least subdomain) zone files contain bits of
(moderately) sensitive data - that's a reason they're access is rather
well controlled (otherwise I'd have no issues with fully listing their
contents).  Those files are well annotated with notes/comments, e.g.
including rather detailed information on contacts for slaves (name,
email, phone, etc.) - at least some of which, I'm presuming not
everyone wants all that information made highly public, thus the
restrictions.

> (1) I cite e-mail address "rick at deirdre.net" (in my wife's domain) to
> avoid having the domain contact be in-band for the domain it concerns.
> That is, it's important that the cited address be reachable even if the
> domain and its underlying hardware and/or network goes offline.  So,
> "rick at deirdre.net" is picked because it's handled completely outside the
> domain, machine, and network that serves linuxmafia.com.

Excellent point (I earlier said something quite similar, though we
disagree at least somewhat on some other points).

> (2) I carefully do not cite myself as the sole contact (which would
> create a single point of failure problem), and have someone else as
> Technical Contact.

Yes, good point (I think I also mentioned something like that).

>>    i wish i could find a tutorial that succinctly
>> and completely explains the rudiments of setting
>> up dns for and on a linux system: this would
>> summarize the concepts and then specify the files
>> to create and/or modify and finally present
>> several examples to exemplify common use cases.
>
> I published a short article a few years ago in _Linux Gazette_ that
> details how to do every variety of DNS _other_ than master authoritative
> DNS, which is covered only in part.  I partially punted on that variety,
> because it would take a long, very intricate article to cover how to do
> it _properly_, i.e., to avoid common mistakes and explain why they are
> mistakes.  http://linuxgazette.net/121/moen.html
>
> I hope that is useful, despite my having punted on the details of master
> authoritative DNS.

Reasonably to thoroughly covering properly setting up and operating DNS
masters isn't exactly a short trivial topic area to cover.  There
literally are books on the topic.  E.g.:
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100575/
Some systems administration books
also have reasonable coverage in chapter(s) on DNS.

> Here's that list of what you should do, to move a domain's master
> namservice to a new IP:

Not quite the scenario here, but still excellent points.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov 17 00:11:59 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 00:11:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG.COM. DNS & what happened in 2009-02
Message-ID: <20091117001159.45383pgeit3cvmck@webmail.rawbw.com>

For those that might not have seen it earlier, or might want a
refresher, here's information on a relatively similar problem
from earlier this year.  Scenario was a bit different then,
but has quite a bit in common with the current situation.

For the details from earlier, have a read/skim through:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006424.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006426.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006429.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006430.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006431.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006432.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006437.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006446.html
And for the stuff referencing either of these URLs:
http://208.96.15.252/log.txt
http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt
just have a look at that earlier bit of data, reproduced below.

2009-02-27
Sometime today, folks started noticing problems with DNS for sf-lug.com., e.g:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006424.html
et. seq.

2009-02-28 mpaoli
I noticed the DNS problems with sf-lug.com., and also found
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006424.html
et. seq.
# fuser -n tcp 53
here: 53
53/tcp:               3319
# ps lwwwwwwwwwp 3319
F   UID   PID  PPID PRI  NI   VSZ  RSS WCHAN  STAT TTY        TIME COMMAND
1 10741  3319     1  19   0 47800 2712 rt_sig Ssl  ?          0:00  
/usr/local/sbin/named-balug -u balugdns -c /etc/named-balug.conf -t  
/var/named/chroot-balug
... but BALUG DNS usually only listens on a different IP (208.96.15.254) -
for sf-lug.com. we're interested in: 208.96.15.252
# netstat -an | grep ':53 .*LISTEN'
tcp        0      0 208.96.15.254:53            0.0.0.0:*               
      LISTEN
... so, nothing listening (sf-lug.com. DNS down) on 208.96.15.252 port 53
# uptime
  04:17:54 up 14 days, 10:36,  9 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Gee, I wonder if bind didn't restart and if the zone had an expire of 14 days?
That would explain a lot.
confirm *nix flavor
# cat /etc/redhat-release
CentOS release 4.4 (Final)
# ls /etc/init.d/*named*
/etc/init.d/named  /etc/init.d/named-balug
# chkconfig --list | fgrep named | fgrep -v balug
named           0:off   1:off   2:off   3:off   4:off   5:off   6:off
... that explains a lot ...
# ls -ld /etc/*named*conf*
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 44 May 12  2007 /etc/named-balug.conf ->  
/var/named/chroot-balug/etc/named-balug.conf
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 32 Mar  5  2007 /etc/named.conf ->  
/var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
# rpm -qa | fgrep -i bind
bind-libs-9.2.4-24.EL4
bind-9.2.4-24.EL4
bind-chroot-9.2.4-24.EL4
bind-utils-9.2.4-24.EL4
ypbind-1.17.2-8
# ls -ld /var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
-rw-r--r--  1 root named 1853 May 14  2007 /var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
# ls -ld /var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 440 Oct 29  2007  
/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
# ls -ldu /var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 440 Nov  8  2007  
/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
# (cd /var/named/chroot/var/named && df -k .)
Filesystem           1K-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/md0               9612516   3450096   5674128  38% /
# mount | fgrep md0
/dev/md0 on / type ext3 (rw)
#
Checked that the filesystem containing the sf-lug.com zone file that's
presumably the one we're interested in isn't mounted ro or noatime (otherwise
the atime of the file wouldn't be too useful/informative in this case).
... looks like bind hasn't (re)read that file in quite a while.  I'm
probably looking at correct file - but haven't confirmed the init config
bits to see if it's using that chroot location ... though it likely is.
Let's see if relevant restart fixes it and confirms all those bits,
but first ...
# head /var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
$TTL 86400
$ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
@       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
                         2007102904      ;Serial
                         3600            ;refresh period
                         3600            ;retry period
                         1209600         ;expire period
                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
;
         IN      NS      ns1.sf-lug.com.
# echo '1209600/3600/24' | bc -l
14.00000000000000000000
#
Yup, ... 14 day expiration, as I suspected.
# (umask 022 && chkconfig named on)
... umask 022 - I don't trust Red Hat (and thus CentOS) quite enough for it to
always do the right thing ... so ... 022 for something that may  
install/modify,
and where I don't want the permissions to end up too tight where such isn't
desired.
# chkconfig --list | fgrep named | fgrep -v balug
named           0:off   1:off   2:on    3:on    4:on    5:on    6:off
# (cd / && umask 022 && service named start)
Starting named:                                            [  OK  ]
# netstat -an | grep ':53 .*LISTEN'
tcp        0      0 208.96.15.252:53            0.0.0.0:*               
      LISTEN
tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:53                0.0.0.0:*               
      LISTEN
tcp        0      0 208.96.15.254:53            0.0.0.0:*               
      LISTEN
# ls -ldu /var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 440 Feb 28 04:30  
/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
# date
Sat Feb 28 04:30:23 PST 2009
That looks much better ... and nice fresh access time (from (re)start and
hence (re)read ... and more recent than when I otherwise read the file - so
likely I was looking at the correct zone file).  And the acid test ... does it
work?  From elsewhere on the Internet:
$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
208.96.15.252
$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
208.96.15.252
$
Looks good!
... from earlier peek at SOA, we have 3600 for retry ... so, at worst case,
slave should be all better within an hour.
... and already, slave looks good:
$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
208.96.15.252
$ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
208.96.15.252
$
... likely from BIND >=8 "notify"
... peeking again at the named.conf file, and the zone file, we see the slave
listed as an NS for the zone, and we find nothing in the named.conf that
would prevent BIND from sending notify to the slave, so the master likely
did so, and thus the slave would have recovered much more quickly.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov 17 02:16:11 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:16:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] single point of contact? good/bad idea? (e.g. DNS)
Message-ID: <20091117021611.11805rw8lwmmn58o@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:32:31 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG (& BALUG) DNS, etc.
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
>> Yes, a single person as point of contact is generally bad.
> Name one where it's a _good_ idea, please.

Well, might take a highly contrived example where it would definitely
be good (and I'm not going to bother), but not too difficult to come up
with an example where it would be at least (semi-?)reasonably arguable
that it would be good.  E.g., let's say we have John Doe, and John Doe
gets domain john-doe.com.  Let's say John Doe absolutely doesn't want
anyone else to ever be able to do anything with the domain, even if
John Doe is unavailable, incapacitated, or flattened by a beer truck.
John Doe doesn't even want John Doe's heirs touching the domain (or at
least wants that to be difficult).  So, ... John Doe sets up only and
exactly John Doe (and specifically that one John Doe) as the contact
for all references and records to the domain.  Now, John Doe would
probably think that was good.  Others may - or may not - agree.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Nov 17 02:19:23 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:19:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] aliases - the good, the bad, and the ugly
Message-ID: <20091117021923.18024wznxl13g5yc@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:32:31 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG (& BALUG) DNS, etc.
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
>> Typically better to have multiple, and where feasible, use out-of-band
>> (e.g. role based) alias(es) that have zero dependencies upon the DNS
>> in question.      ^^^^^^^^^

Okay, ... I'm not going to get into the whole aliases debate again
(likely already did that at least once somewhere on this list, or
elsewhere).
Yes, you certainly do cover some very legitimate points, namely:
o sending and forwarding via aliases & authorized sending IP issues
   (e.g. SPF), and similar issues.
o exactly where aliases do/don't forward to can be more
   difficult/restrictive/restricted in who can see/examine (and sometimes
   even test) that.
... and perhaps some additional points.
But aliases also have noteworthy advantages.  (I've mentioned at least
some of them before, no need to get horribly redundant with the same
point / counter-point ad infinitum).




From jim at well.com  Tue Nov 17 08:18:30 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:18:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] 11/18 ITVS Community Cinema: Between the Folds
Message-ID: <1258474710.32456.7.camel@jim-laptop>




The San Francisco Public Library in association with Independent
Television Service and KQED present BETWEEN THE FOLDS.  This film
chronicles the stories of ten fine artists and intrepid
theoretical scientists who have abandoned careers and graduate
degrees all to forge unconventional lives as origami artists.

San Francisco Main Library
Grove St. @ Hyde St.
(take BART to Civic Center or Muni to Market & 8th St.)
Downstairs in the Koret Auditorium
Wednesday, November 18, 2009
5:45 p.m.-7:30 p.m.


http://www.sfpl.org/news/events.htm
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/between-the-folds/getinvolved.html

Upcoming events in this series:

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/getinvolved/cinema/?city=7





From jim at well.com  Tue Nov 17 08:40:31 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:40:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] balug tonight in chinatown: mark terranova on new features
	in	Ubuntu 9.10
Message-ID: <1258476031.32456.30.camel@jim-laptop>


   balug meets tonight at the four seas restaurant 
in san francisco's chinatown. the speaker is mark 
terranova talking about what's new in ubuntu 9.10 
("karmic koala"). 
   there are a few drastic changes in ubuntu 9.10 
that include GRUB 2, among others, which now has 
modules (like the kernel) that enable extended 
capabilities such as booting from an LVM volume, 
among other things (seems like GRUB 2 deserves a 
talk in itself). 

   people start gathering in the Four Seas bar 
area around 6:30; dinner is at 7:00; the talk 
begins around 8:00 and goes till 9:00 or so. 
dinner is $13 each for family style dinner. you 
can show up at 8:00 for the talk in the upstairs 
banquet room. 
   if you know you'll be attending, please rsvp: 
rsvp at balug.org





From jim at well.com  Tue Nov 17 09:10:56 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:10:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] last night's meeting: getting wifi to work on a laptop
Message-ID: <1258477856.32456.57.camel@jim-laptop>


   at last night's sf-lug meeting at the cafe 
enchante, someone (who's name i didn't catch) 
showed up with an HP laptop running a late 
model fedora OS with what seems to be the 
standard problem that wifi didn't work. we 
booted it up with an ubuntu 9.10 "live" cd 
and what do you know--wifi worked! 

   we didn't have time to explore further, so 
i'd like to summarize a couple of points. boot 
up with a "live" cd, and if that does enable 
the wifi, try to: 

* figure out the chip set that implements the 
wifi. a good way to do this is to look at the 
/var/log/dmesg file or to run the command 
$ dmesg | less 
   the dmesg command presents the information 
that's in the /var/log/dmesg file along with 
some additional information gathered during 
runtime. 
   i recommend looking at the /var/log/dmesg 
file: 
$ less /var/log/dmesg 
for the reason that the less program lets you 
move up and down in the file, while piping 
to less lets you move forward only. the info 
about the wifi chips is in the file (if it's 
there at all), near the end of the file (the 
/var/log/dmesg file reflects what the system 
components are in the order that they're 
discovered at boot time). the three most common 
chipsets are broadcom, atheros, and intel. you 
can use the grep command to search for each 
name: 
$ grep -i Broad /var/log/dmesg 
$ grep -i Intel /var/log/dmesg 
$ grep -i Ather /var/log/dmesg 

* discover the driver that's needed for the 
wifi chipset. 
   use the lsmod command and look through its 
output for anything having to do with wifi: 
$ lsmod | less 
   use the ls command to inspect the firmware 
for the system: 
$ ls /lib/firmware/$(uname -r) 
   and look for names that seem to match the 
wifi chipset name. 

   probably a good idea to use the internet to 
verify that your system actually does use the 
wifi chipset and driver you believe you've 
identified along with any info about the distro 
you're using and the correct package to get (and 
see if there are any problems others have had 
and solved). 
   (recall this is for people who can't seem to 
get wifi working and use a "live" cd that does 
get wifi working--use the above commands while
the "live" cd is still running.) 






From jim at well.com  Tue Nov 17 09:14:50 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:14:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux at noisebridge tuesdays, wednesdays, and fridays
Message-ID: <1258478090.32456.62.camel@jim-laptop>


   linux system administration study group at 
noisebridge tuesdays and fridays from 3 PM to 
6 PM. 

   linux discussion group at noisebridge 
wednesday evenings from 6 PM to 8 PM (or so). 

   noisebridge is on the third floor of 2169 
mission street, near 18th street, in san 
francisco. 
( http://www.noisebridge.net ) 





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 09:35:53 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:35:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] aliases - the good, the bad, and the ugly
In-Reply-To: <20091117021923.18024wznxl13g5yc@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20091117021923.18024wznxl13g5yc@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091117173553.GB6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> But aliases also have noteworthy advantages.

Of course.  They are invaluable for redirecting mail in-system and
(at least theoretically) within groups of machines you control as part
of a single mail cluster.  I use, and recommend, them every day for
the former purpose.

That is, in fact, why I carefully limited my critique about the
standards-compliance problem to "mail reflected between SMTP systems via
/etc/aliases or ~/.forward" (without modifications such as Sender
Rewriting System).  Because in-system aliases (in particular) are, in
fact, indispensible and there's nothing wrong with them.

Anyway, as someone who stubbornly believes in progress, I _would_
appreciate it if we limited ourselves to making only new and creative
mistakes, rather than repeating old ones.

-- 
Rick Moen              "Always capitalize 'Satan'. You don't want to get dead
rick at linuxmafia.com    goats from those people."           -- FakeAPStylebook



From bliss at sfo.com  Tue Nov 17 09:48:04 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:48:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: latest net & tv merging, Sezmi and they have work
Message-ID: <4B02E1D4.9030603@sfo.com>

Hi Luggers
    Heard about Sezmi on channel 5 news this morning.
  
    They have several jobs open I found when I went to the
site and applied for the pilot program.

    <http://www.sezmi.com/employment.php>


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[TAML-WNT] latest net & tv merging, Sezmi
Date: 	Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:41:48 -0800
From: 	Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com>
Reply-To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
Organization: 	none
To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com



   A terabyte of storage and requires broadband connection
as well as $300 worth of hardware the tuner server and the
special antennae.

    http://cbs5.com/technology/sezmi.tv.service.2.1316998.html

   Sezmi does it all they say.

   later
   bliss
	

	




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 10:11:03 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:11:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] single point of contact? good/bad idea? (e.g. DNS)
In-Reply-To: <20091117021611.11805rw8lwmmn58o@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20091117021611.11805rw8lwmmn58o@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091117181103.GG6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Well, might take a highly contrived example where it would definitely
> be good (and I'm not going to bother), but not too difficult to come up
> with an example where it would be at least (semi-?)reasonably arguable
> that it would be good.  E.g., let's say we have John Doe, and John Doe
> gets domain john-doe.com.  Let's say John Doe absolutely doesn't want
> anyone else to ever be able to do anything with the domain, even if
> John Doe is unavailable, incapacitated, or flattened by a beer truck.
> John Doe doesn't even want John Doe's heirs touching the domain (or at
> least wants that to be difficult).  So, ... John Doe sets up only and
> exactly John Doe (and specifically that one John Doe) as the contact
> for all references and records to the domain. 

Wow, John sounds like a real hermit.  Does he totally distrust all ISPs,
his own secretary, his own lawyer, and all companies even under ironclad
contract?  If so, I'm surprised he's able to own a domain at all.  I
shudder to think of what hosting arrangements he'll be obliged to use.

You're right, that's pretty darned contrived.  Need any help untying
yourself from that set of contortions?  ;->




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 10:25:29 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:25:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] last night's meeting: getting wifi to work on a laptop
In-Reply-To: <1258477856.32456.57.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1258477856.32456.57.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091117182529.GH6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

> 
> wifi. a good way to do this is to look at the 
> /var/log/dmesg file or to run the command 
> $ dmesg | less 

Since it's probably a PCI device, maybe lspci would be useful.
It very often is.

(Note that one reason a really current live CD is handy is that it has
built in a recent snapshot of Martin Mares's pci.ids file,
http://pciids.sourceforge.net/ .  If the device's PCI ID is too new to
be fully recognised by lspci, however, lspci will still give you the
numerical ID, which you can then look up online in Mares's list.)

>    the dmesg command presents the information 
> that's in the /var/log/dmesg file along with 
> some additional information gathered during 
> runtime. 
>    i recommend looking at the /var/log/dmesg 
> file: 
> $ less /var/log/dmesg 
> for the reason that the less program lets you 
> move up and down in the file, while piping 
> to less lets you move forward only. 

Huh?

"dmesg | less" works as intended, here.  If it doesn't on your system,
then you have something broken.

My current preferred live CD for general purposes remains (whatever's
the latest release at any given time of) Sidux.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 12:17:00 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:17:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091117000938.26515v0r53yi8ow0@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.167.1258390518.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091117000938.26515v0r53yi8ow0@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091117201700.GO6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Yes, definitely still stuff to be done (I keep hoping Jim or someone
> else will get SF-LUG.COM. DNS squared away before the secondary expires
> the zone ... but if the timing gets too close on that, I plan to correct
> it - and in the meantime Jim Stockford and/or other SF-LUG.COM.
> systems/DNS administrators can contact me if they need assistance or
> have questions).

If need be, it's simple to prevent zone expiration by temporarily
telling the secondary that it's master for the zone (until the
replacement master is ready).

> Actually, by coincidence, turns out the "new" (substituted) master DNS
> server is ... well, will be anyway, on the same IP (host is there, but
> last I checked it's not yet serving up DNS nor particularly being DNS
> for SF-LUG.COM.).

OK, good for me, then.  ;->  Everything should Just Work when Jim has 
the master DNS back online.


> # cat var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
> $TTL 86400
> $ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
> @       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
>                         2007102904      ;Serial
>                         3600            ;refresh period
>                         3600            ;retry period
>                         1209600         ;expire period
>                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
> ;

Minor correction:  The last SOA sub-field hasn't signified "minimum TTL
period" since BIND4 days.  The above annotation is a dusty holdover,
probably copied from an old example file, and should be replaced.  The
new-er purpose of that subfield is "negative TTL" aka "negative
caching", which is how many seconds a nameserver should cache a NAME
ERROR (NXDOMAIN) record.

FYI, the value you specify, 10800 = 3 hours, is the longest time period
for negative caching allowed by RFCs.  

FWIW, I tend to use these values in SOAs:

                        7200                    ; refresh 2 hours
                        3600                    ; retry 1 hour
                        2419200                 ; expire 28 days
                        10800                   ; negative TTL 3 hours



[snip suggested steps when moving master DNS]

> Yes, ... not quite the situation in this case.

True, those remarks having been based on the assumption of moving master
DNS to a new IP.

It's still good to let your secondaries know about planned downtime.
Which of course means it's a good idea to keep contact information in
your /etc/named.conf[.local].





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 12:46:32 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:46:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] insecure temporary file vunerability, race conditions,
	good vs.	perfect, etc.
Message-ID: <20091117204632.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>

Passing along.  Appreciate the concern.

----- Forwarded message from Michael Paoli <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> -----

Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:00:20 -0800
From: Michael Paoli <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
To: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: insecure temporary file vunerability, race conditions, good vs.
	perfect, etc.

Wouldn't want someone to exploit your system with this (specific
insecure temporary file) information.  Let me know when it's okay to
post to the sf-lug list ... or feel free to forward it on - or reply to
it on-list, feeling of course free to comment upon it as you wish
(though if you reply to it on-list before I post it or you forward it,
I'd prefer you include at least all my text below ... otherwise of
course feel free to trim mercilessly).

references/excerpts:
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:32:31 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG (& BALUG) DNS, etc.
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

> This is one of the key lessons of system administration:  The
> good-enough if half-assed solution that you actually do is better than
> the really good one that you never get to.

Uhm, good point, and I'd approximately agree.  I'd be inclined to state
more along the lines of it needn't be perfect, or as I believe a
coworker once (re)stated it:
The perfect is the enemy of the good. (apparently from Voltaire)
But in areas such as systems administration, one should take sufficient
care that it's not going to cause problems or allow something to cause
problems - the results can be significant to catastrophic.
see also:
http://www.rawbw.com/~mp/unix/sh/#Good_Programming_Practices
E.g. jr. sysadmin adds a
crontab job that runs a script that looks basically like this:
#!/bin/sh
cd /var/local/log/fooapplication/log
find . -type f -mtime +3 -exec rm -f \{\} \;
... and was run by root.  Guess what happened the very first time that
cd failed?  Instant nasty death of production system.  Just a teensy bit
more care would have averted disaster, e.g.:
#!/bin/sh
cd /var/local/log/fooapplication/log &&
find . -type f -mtime +3 -exec rm -f \{\} \;
or:
#!/bin/sh
set -e
cd /var/local/log/fooapplication/log
find . -type f -mtime +3 -exec rm -f \{\} \;

(and you did include at least some set -e or equivalent - I've omitted
at least some of that below for brevity)

> #!/bin/sh
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} > 
> /tmp/domains
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.TX.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} 
> >> /tmp/domains
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS2.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'} 
> >> /tmp/domains
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.THECOOP.NET +short | awk {'print $3'} >> 
> /tmp/domains
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'} 
> >> /tmp/domains
> test -e /tmp/domains || exit 0
> /usr/bin/mail -s "Domain linuxmafia.com SOA check" rick at linuxmafia.com < 
> /tmp/domains

When first glancing over the above, the most immediate thing I think of
is insecure temporary file vulnerabilities.  Now, this might be one's
own home box, and there might not "ever" be any other users - but even
if/when that might be the case, I still tend to think in terms of
multi-user multi-tasking operating system, and security.  Besides, who
knows, maybe things change later, or the script appears to work so
wonderfully that it gets copied and implemented elsewhere.  Most, if
not all, major popular Linux distribution offer excellent tools for
securely creating temporary files - so if I were to create a temporary
file in a shell script, I'd likely use those utilities in such an
environment.  If I needed to be more portable (e.g. POSIX), and might
not have such utilities available, the temporary file vulnerability
situation can be avoided indirectly - by first creating a directory -
even for root, mkdir is an atomic operation, and will fail if the
directory already exists (mkdir(2), that is - but likewise for mkdir(1)
if one just creates a single directory).
For an example using mkdir, see:
http://www.rawbw.com/~mp/unix/sh/examples/viewman
But our "solution" can be even much simpler in this case.  Why even
create temporary file if it's not needed?:

So, ... a much more secure quick and dirty:
{
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.TX.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS2.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'}
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.THECOOP.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'}
} |
/usr/bin/mail -s "Domain linuxmafia.com SOA check" rick at linuxmafia.com

Now, the above doesn't first check for non-empty output, but we could
add that if we wanted (shove data securely into temporary file, or
shove data into shell variable, securely test if that's empty or not,
and if it's not empty, we could then feed it to the mail program, and
in the case of shell variable, we could use a here document and the
shell would take care of securely creating a temporary file for the
here document - if it needed a temporary file at all for it.)

I'd also make all those domains fully qualified - end in . - for the
root domain - that way there's no ambiguity or room for
misinterpretation by dig, resolver libraries, etc.  In nearly all
cases, one can use a fully qualified domain name (FQDN).  FQDNs end in
. and that will work in almost all circumstances, and it absolutely
works in the realm of DNS.

Of course there are various other tweaks we could make too - such as
just using a single invocation of awk (after we've consolidated our
output, but before going to mail program, file, or shell variable).

If we wanted to bother (would be handy when we have hundreds of
domains), could use a loop to process them, rather than have other
redundant content on each line - that would aid maintenance a bit (if
one ever wanted to change "those lines", there'd be only one line to
change)., e.g. something like:
#!/bin/sh
for ns in \
NS.PRIMATE.NET. \
NS.TX.PRIMATE.NET. \
NS2.LINUXMAFIA.COM. \
NS1.THECOOP.NET. \
NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM.
do
    dig -t soa linuxmafia.com. @"$ns" +short
done |
awk '{print $3;};' |
/usr/bin/mail -s "Domain linuxmafia.com SOA check" rick at linuxmafia.com

Back to Rick's point, "of course" we could go on and on tweaking and
improving ... when we likely should be doing other more useful stuff
elsewhere instead.  But back to my point, I'd be inclined to at least do
the slight bit(s) to eliminate the insecure temporary file
vulnerability.  The rest is all most likely not critical, and could be
done, or not, based on various relative priorities of things to be
worked on.

So, what's a temporary file security vulnerability?  Let's say, with
our original example, /tmp/domains doesn't yet exist - perhaps the
script removed it, or a /tmp cleanup job removed it, or /tmp is
volatile and the system was rebooted, or a brand new system's been set
up, everything was copied over, but contents of /tmp were (quite
reasonably) not copied.  So, let's say there's some other user or
process on the system, ... perhaps that even knows of script that will
be run by cron that writes to /tmp/domains (there are even tools to
look for such vulnerabilities - e.g. by looking to stuff written in
/tmp or /var/tmp - even if it's only there for a short while).  So,
let's say, before the legitimate script writes (and thus creates) a new
/tmp/domains file, a nefarious user or process does something like:
$ ln -s /some/critical/security/file /tmp/domains
So, ... along comes the legitimate script, and it writes to
/tmp/domains - and in so doing truncates and overwrites
/some/critical/security/file.  That's one's basic temporary security
file vulnerability.  And before one thinks, "Oh, I can just remove it
first, and create it fresh, or I can test and then" - there's an
additional class of problems - race conditions.  Linux (and Unix, etc.)
- multiuser multitasking operating system, if you test, and then ... or
remove, and then ... well, other things can happen between the part
that comes before and then, and the part that comes after.  One of the
ways of solving race conditions is atomic operations.  E.g. mkdir(2) -
it's a single atomic system call, it either works and successfully
creates the directory where it didn't exist, or it fails - even for
root, so the test is implicit in the action attempt - one can then test
the results of the operation to know if the action succeeded (and to do
a secure temporary file via mkdir(2), we first securely create our
directory, with appropriate ownerships/permissions when we create the
directory (not after - that's too late), then we create our temporary
file(s) within the newly created directory - and paying appropriate
attention to umask - and possibly file names - when creating the files,
at least if the permissions on the directory are more lax than
drwx------).


----- End forwarded message -----



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 12:47:44 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:47:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] insecure temporary file vunerability, race	conditions,
	good vs. perfect, etc.
In-Reply-To: <20091117204632.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20091117204632.GK1982@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091117204744.GQ6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> So, ... a much more secure quick and dirty:
> {
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS.TX.PRIMATE.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS2.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'}
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.THECOOP.NET +short | awk {'print $3'}
> dig -t soa linuxmafia.com @NS1.LINUXMAFIA.COM +short | awk {'print $3'}
> } |
> /usr/bin/mail -s "Domain linuxmafia.com SOA check" rick at linuxmafia.com

Yeah, that's more like what I had in mind.  Thanks.  (I did say it was
really, really quick and dirty.)

Of course, it's not necessary to run this sort of job with any kind of
elevated privilege, either.  Can run as anyone.

> I'd also make all those domains fully qualified - end in . - for the
> root domain - that way there's no ambiguity or room for
> misinterpretation by dig, resolver libraries, etc.

Yeah, I should, but I made sure it works.  Semantics of the resolver
lib don't change, and dig is consistent.  The only tool I know of that
does peculiar things if you omit the root is nslookup for MS-Windows.

> If we wanted to bother (would be handy when we have hundreds of
> domains), could use a loop to process them, rather than have other
> redundant content on each line - that would aid maintenance a bit (if
> one ever wanted to change "those lines", there'd be only one line to
> change)

Personally, when I want to make a change across a number of lines, I
whip out sed.  You didn't think I _wrote_ all that, did you?  ;->





From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Tue Nov 17 15:17:34 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:17:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to 	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911171517l5aa0097bke659ac38676f94e2@mail.gmail.com>

I did in fact ask RMS about this and found his answer extremely
interesting in a very you-had-to-be-there kind of way. In fact I was
strongly reminded of a parable from the Principia Discordia which I
excerpt below:

A serious young man found the conflicts of mid 20th Century America
confusing. He went to many people seeking a way of resolving within
himself the discords that troubled him, but he remained troubled...

His worrying and meditation were disturbed when, as if in a test of
his faith, ordure fell from the second floor onto him. At that time
two people walked into the room. The first asked the second who the
man was sitting there was. The second replied "Some say he is a holy
man. Others say he is a shithead."

Hearing this, the man was enlightened.

http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/12.php

On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Michael Shiloh
<michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> well, you can ask RMS about this on Monday
>
> Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It is OK for non-free software to depend on and connect to free
>>>> software... however if they are so tightly connected as to form a
>>>> single program, as in the combination of a kernel with modules, then
>>>> the resulting single program is a derived work.
>>>
>>> That's not really it.
>>
>> Correct, I am not attempting to recapitulate Linus' argument about
>> aggregation, but advancing a separate point, which is: this distro is
>> OK under GPL because the non-free Eldy software is not tightly coupled
>> with GPL'd components such as the Linux kernel. Assuming Eldy is a
>> standalone program in its own right, such that we could easily swap
>> out Linux and run it on BSD or Windows, that's a good indication it is
>> NOT derived from Linux. If Eldy were more tightly coupled in the sense
>> that it "has knowledge of and plays with fundamental internal Linux
>> behaviour" then we can make an argument that it IS derived from Linux:
>>
>> http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0312.0/0670.html
>>
>> In the first case we have what the GPL calls an "independent and
>> separate work" which does not require source disclosure; whereas in
>> the second case we would view Linux as the "base work" and Eldy as an
>> "elaboration" of it.
>>
>> Again this is just my own interpretation; clarifications to my
>> thinking are always welcome.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Nov 17 15:25:20 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:25:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Potential GPL violation,
	with the potential intent to	victimize our Elderly loved ones
In-Reply-To: <683785120911171517l5aa0097bke659ac38676f94e2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c8c30a7c0911111421k562b1155m49d786e81eb5f3f7@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120911121332qf6bed49u419fff52f7f44ad3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091113070929.GK21475@linuxmafia.com>
	<683785120911131616g5dee4a45s3b2f680f7f3ffa71@mail.gmail.com>
	<4AFE2F70.4050206@gmail.com>
	<683785120911171517l5aa0097bke659ac38676f94e2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091117232520.GU1982@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> I did in fact ask RMS about this and found his answer extremely
> interesting in a very you-had-to-be-there kind of way. In fact I was
> strongly reminded of a parable from the Principia Discordia which I
> excerpt below:

Thanks for that.  

And I _really_ miss Robert Anton Wilson.  ;->




From josh at openvideoalliance.org  Tue Nov 17 17:16:18 2009
From: josh at openvideoalliance.org (Josh Levy)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 20:16:18 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Open Video Alliance Contest
Message-ID: <2b117e380911171716q6703bd3aq3381465f8cba121d@mail.gmail.com>

*Want to win a trip to South By Southwest 2010? Or maybe a Flip Mino video
camera? Read on...*

*Open Video in 60 Seconds* <http://contest.openvideoalliance.org/>
The Open Video Alliance is holding a video
contest<http://contest.openvideoalliance.org/>.
To enter, just make a video spot explaining open video in 60 seconds or
less. Then upload it anywhere and tell us the URL.

Our judges?including web luminaries like Jimmy Wales and Mitchell Baker?will
pick the best and most creative entries. One lucky winner will be headed to
Austin on an expenses-paid trip to SXSW 2010 <http://sxsw.com/interactive>*,
*and three runners-up will get a Flip Mino handheld video camera.

The last day to submit a video is January 31, 2010. Head over to the contest
page <http://contest.openvideoalliance.org/> to check out the entries and
submit your own video! Complete rules are
here<http://contest.openvideoalliance.org/about/>
.

*Need some inspiration?*
We've got you covered. Here are some
ideas.<http://contest.openvideoalliance.org/about/#3>For more on open
video, check out some open
video issues <http://openvideoalliance.org/issues>.

*Who are you?*
The Open Video Alliance <http://openvideoalliance.org/> is a coalition of
organizations and individuals devoted to creating and promoting free and
open technologies, policies, and practices in online video.
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From jim at well.com  Tue Nov 17 21:06:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:06:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
In-Reply-To: <20091117201700.GO6625@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.167.1258390518.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20091117000938.26515v0r53yi8ow0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20091117201700.GO6625@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1258520782.8131.6.camel@jim-laptop>



   jim was studying diligently until the dentist 
pulled out one of his teeth and filled him with 
pain pills. jim will study more in the morning. 



On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 12:17 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
> 
> > Yes, definitely still stuff to be done (I keep hoping Jim or someone
> > else will get SF-LUG.COM. DNS squared away before the secondary expires
> > the zone ... but if the timing gets too close on that, I plan to correct
> > it - and in the meantime Jim Stockford and/or other SF-LUG.COM.
> > systems/DNS administrators can contact me if they need assistance or
> > have questions).
> 
> If need be, it's simple to prevent zone expiration by temporarily
> telling the secondary that it's master for the zone (until the
> replacement master is ready).
> 
> > Actually, by coincidence, turns out the "new" (substituted) master DNS
> > server is ... well, will be anyway, on the same IP (host is there, but
> > last I checked it's not yet serving up DNS nor particularly being DNS
> > for SF-LUG.COM.).
> 
> OK, good for me, then.  ;->  Everything should Just Work when Jim has 
> the master DNS back online.
> 
> 
> > # cat var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
> > $TTL 86400
> > $ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
> > @       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
> >                         2007102904      ;Serial
> >                         3600            ;refresh period
> >                         3600            ;retry period
> >                         1209600         ;expire period
> >                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
> > ;
> 
> Minor correction:  The last SOA sub-field hasn't signified "minimum TTL
> period" since BIND4 days.  The above annotation is a dusty holdover,
> probably copied from an old example file, and should be replaced.  The
> new-er purpose of that subfield is "negative TTL" aka "negative
> caching", which is how many seconds a nameserver should cache a NAME
> ERROR (NXDOMAIN) record.
> 
> FYI, the value you specify, 10800 = 3 hours, is the longest time period
> for negative caching allowed by RFCs.  
> 
> FWIW, I tend to use these values in SOAs:
> 
>                         7200                    ; refresh 2 hours
>                         3600                    ; retry 1 hour
>                         2419200                 ; expire 28 days
>                         10800                   ; negative TTL 3 hours
> 
> 
> 
> [snip suggested steps when moving master DNS]
> 
> > Yes, ... not quite the situation in this case.
> 
> True, those remarks having been based on the assumption of moving master
> DNS to a new IP.
> 
> It's still good to let your secondaries know about planned downtime.
> Which of course means it's a good idea to keep contact information in
> your /etc/named.conf[.local].
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 07:05:33 2009
From: pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com (Pseudo Anonymous)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:05:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
Message-ID: <c4e67a470911180705re87c76akc0292ca8de8e8196@mail.gmail.com>

forensics with Linux

Let's say someone hands us a laptop that is or likely has been
compromised.  Let's say we actually want to preserve an exact image
copy of the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we also want to compute some
secure cryptographic hashes of entire laptop hard drive and
digitally sign - such as with gpg - those hashes and statement about
those hashes.  Let's say we've got quite sufficiently large external
USB drive that we can attach and that wasn't at all involved in
compromise and hasn't been attached to that laptop before.

So, how would we best proceed to: boot Linux off of CD or DVD (or
possibly even USB stick) and make absolutely no write access to the
laptop hard drive - e.g. nothing that would automatically or by default
mount or attempt to mount anything on the laptop filesystem(s) rw?
We'd also want to be sure nothing attempts to run/boot/execute anything
off the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we've got someone that well knows
how to wield fdisk/cfdisk/sfdisk/mke2fs/dd/gpg/openssl, and at least
most common Linux systems administration tasks, but may or may not be a
forensics expert, and we're mostly interested in preserving evidence of
state and data of laptop hard drive.

Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).

And for the legal or legally inclined folks, particular recommendations
for evidence preservation/handling for possible use in criminal and/or
civil case(s) in such described situation?

Thanks in advance for the information.



From jim at well.com  Wed Nov 18 08:48:33 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:48:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19,
	2009: Python in	Computational Biology and Chemistry
Message-ID: <1258562913.8131.26.camel@jim-laptop>


(NOTE: Because of Thanksgiving, BayPIGgies meets in November 
on the third, not the fourth, Thursday of the month. 

And next month BayPIGiges will meet on December 14: the 
second MONDAY of the month.) 


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19, 2009: 

Tonight's talk is 
* Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry 
by Andrew Dalke 

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: chaining operators 

LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://www.baypiggies.net/ 


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
Newbie Nugget: chaining operators 


..... 7:40 PM to 8:45 PM (or so) ................

Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry 
by Andrew Dalke 

Andrew will describe how Python is used in molecular modeling, 
bioinformatics, chemoinformatics, and related fields. 

Wait! Don't leave! 

You're not a researcher in these fields and he knows it. He's 
going to give a taste of what the underlying problems are in some 
of those subfields, an idea of what Python tools are available 
and describe a few of the reasons why sometimes Perl, FORTRAN, or 
another language is the dominate language for that some that domain. 
There will be some colorful pictures. He'll also include a bit of 
what it's like to be a software developer in a scientific field.

LINKS: http://dalkescientific.com/writings/


..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, 
events, and other topics. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually 
on the announcements and other interests.





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Nov 18 09:32:42 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:32:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
In-Reply-To: <c4e67a470911180705re87c76akc0292ca8de8e8196@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c4e67a470911180705re87c76akc0292ca8de8e8196@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091118173242.GL6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Pseudo Anonymous (pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com):

> Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
> distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
> such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
> boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
> access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
> nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).

Check with the applicable legal authorities about which of these are
deemed to result in admissible evidence:

DEFT Linux CD, http://www.deftlinux.net/
CAINE Live CD, http://www.caine-live.net/
FCCU GNU/Linux Forensic Boot CD, http://www.lnx4n6.be/
Grml, http://grml.org/
Helix3, https://www.e-fense.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=11
  (proprietary no longer maintained)
Helix3 Pro, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php (proprietary)
Masterkey Linux, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php
SPADA, http://spada-cd.info/
The Farmer's Boot CD, http://www.forensicbootcd.com/
Operator, http://www.ussysadmin.com/operator/
Knoppix-STD, http://www.knoppix-std.org/
Inside Security Rescue Toolkit, http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html




From maiwurd at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 13:06:42 2009
From: maiwurd at gmail.com (mai wurd)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:06:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 46, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1258574404.21596.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1258574404.21596.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <fb3a04160911181306r1392c3f7gf8e703e08e111f87@mail.gmail.com>

Subject: forensics with Linux

First, if this is a significant/potential financial breach DO NOTHING TO THE
BOX. Turn it over the the police. Preserve the "Crime Scene" once you boot
it up via any method the metadata is compromised and taints the audit trail.

If you just want to perform you own audit, use a computer forensics tool
e.g. SleuthKit...http://www.sleuthkit.org/ etc.

Brad

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:00 PM, <sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to
>        sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: SF-LUG DNS (jim)
>   2. forensics with Linux (Pseudo Anonymous)
>   3. BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19,  2009: Python in
>      Computational Biology and Chemistry (jim)
>   4. Re: forensics with Linux (Rick Moen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:06:22 -0800
> From: jim <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
> To: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <1258520782.8131.6.camel at jim-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
>
>   jim was studying diligently until the dentist
> pulled out one of his teeth and filled him with
> pain pills. jim will study more in the morning.
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 12:17 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
> >
> > > Yes, definitely still stuff to be done (I keep hoping Jim or someone
> > > else will get SF-LUG.COM. DNS squared away before the secondary
> expires
> > > the zone ... but if the timing gets too close on that, I plan to
> correct
> > > it - and in the meantime Jim Stockford and/or other SF-LUG.COM.
> > > systems/DNS administrators can contact me if they need assistance or
> > > have questions).
> >
> > If need be, it's simple to prevent zone expiration by temporarily
> > telling the secondary that it's master for the zone (until the
> > replacement master is ready).
> >
> > > Actually, by coincidence, turns out the "new" (substituted) master DNS
> > > server is ... well, will be anyway, on the same IP (host is there, but
> > > last I checked it's not yet serving up DNS nor particularly being DNS
> > > for SF-LUG.COM.).
> >
> > OK, good for me, then.  ;->  Everything should Just Work when Jim has
> > the master DNS back online.
> >
> >
> > > # cat var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
> > > $TTL 86400
> > > $ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
> > > @       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
> > >                         2007102904      ;Serial
> > >                         3600            ;refresh period
> > >                         3600            ;retry period
> > >                         1209600         ;expire period
> > >                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
> > > ;
> >
> > Minor correction:  The last SOA sub-field hasn't signified "minimum TTL
> > period" since BIND4 days.  The above annotation is a dusty holdover,
> > probably copied from an old example file, and should be replaced.  The
> > new-er purpose of that subfield is "negative TTL" aka "negative
> > caching", which is how many seconds a nameserver should cache a NAME
> > ERROR (NXDOMAIN) record.
> >
> > FYI, the value you specify, 10800 = 3 hours, is the longest time period
> > for negative caching allowed by RFCs.
> >
> > FWIW, I tend to use these values in SOAs:
> >
> >                         7200                    ; refresh 2 hours
> >                         3600                    ; retry 1 hour
> >                         2419200                 ; expire 28 days
> >                         10800                   ; negative TTL 3 hours
> >
> >
> >
> > [snip suggested steps when moving master DNS]
> >
> > > Yes, ... not quite the situation in this case.
> >
> > True, those remarks having been based on the assumption of moving master
> > DNS to a new IP.
> >
> > It's still good to let your secondaries know about planned downtime.
> > Which of course means it's a good idea to keep contact information in
> > your /etc/named.conf[.local].
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:05:33 -0800
> From: Pseudo Anonymous <pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID:
>        <c4e67a470911180705re87c76akc0292ca8de8e8196 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> forensics with Linux
>
> Let's say someone hands us a laptop that is or likely has been
> compromised.  Let's say we actually want to preserve an exact image
> copy of the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we also want to compute some
> secure cryptographic hashes of entire laptop hard drive and
> digitally sign - such as with gpg - those hashes and statement about
> those hashes.  Let's say we've got quite sufficiently large external
> USB drive that we can attach and that wasn't at all involved in
> compromise and hasn't been attached to that laptop before.
>
> So, how would we best proceed to: boot Linux off of CD or DVD (or
> possibly even USB stick) and make absolutely no write access to the
> laptop hard drive - e.g. nothing that would automatically or by default
> mount or attempt to mount anything on the laptop filesystem(s) rw?
> We'd also want to be sure nothing attempts to run/boot/execute anything
> off the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we've got someone that well knows
> how to wield fdisk/cfdisk/sfdisk/mke2fs/dd/gpg/openssl, and at least
> most common Linux systems administration tasks, but may or may not be a
> forensics expert, and we're mostly interested in preserving evidence of
> state and data of laptop hard drive.
>
> Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
> distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
> such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
> boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
> access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
> nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).
>
> And for the legal or legally inclined folks, particular recommendations
> for evidence preservation/handling for possible use in criminal and/or
> civil case(s) in such described situation?
>
> Thanks in advance for the information.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:48:33 -0800
> From: jim <jim at well.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19,      2009:
>        Python in       Computational Biology and Chemistry
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <1258562913.8131.26.camel at jim-laptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
>
> (NOTE: Because of Thanksgiving, BayPIGgies meets in November
> on the third, not the fourth, Thursday of the month.
>
> And next month BayPIGiges will meet on December 14: the
> second MONDAY of the month.)
>
>
> BayPIGgies meeting Thursday November 19, 2009:
>
> Tonight's talk is
> * Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry
> by Andrew Dalke
>
> Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an
> essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python.
> Tonight's Newbie Nugget: chaining operators
>
> LOCATION
> Symantec Corporation
> Symantec Vcafe
> 350 Ellis Street
> Mountain View, CA 94043
>
> http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18
>
> BayPIGgies meeting information is available at
> http://www.baypiggies.net/
>
>
> ------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
>
> ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any
> first-minute announcements.
>
>
> ..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
> Newbie Nugget: chaining operators
>
>
> ..... 7:40 PM to 8:45 PM (or so) ................
>
> Python in Computational Biology and Chemistry
> by Andrew Dalke
>
> Andrew will describe how Python is used in molecular modeling,
> bioinformatics, chemoinformatics, and related fields.
>
> Wait! Don't leave!
>
> You're not a researcher in these fields and he knows it. He's
> going to give a taste of what the underlying problems are in some
> of those subfields, an idea of what Python tools are available
> and describe a few of the reasons why sometimes Perl, FORTRAN, or
> another language is the dominate language for that some that domain.
> There will be some colorful pictures. He'll also include a bit of
> what it's like to be a software developer in a scientific field.
>
> LINKS: http://dalkescientific.com/writings/
>
>
> ..... 8:45 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
> Mapping and Random Access
>
> Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring,
> events, and other topics.
>
> Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually
> on the announcements and other interests.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:32:42 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20091118173242.GL6625 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Quoting Pseudo Anonymous (pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com):
>
> > Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
> > distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
> > such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
> > boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
> > access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
> > nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).
>
> Check with the applicable legal authorities about which of these are
> deemed to result in admissible evidence:
>
> DEFT Linux CD, http://www.deftlinux.net/
> CAINE Live CD, http://www.caine-live.net/
> FCCU GNU/Linux Forensic Boot CD, http://www.lnx4n6.be/
> Grml, http://grml.org/
> Helix3, https://www.e-fense.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=11
>  (proprietary no longer maintained)
> Helix3 Pro, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php (proprietary)
> Masterkey Linux, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php
> SPADA, http://spada-cd.info/
> The Farmer's Boot CD, http://www.forensicbootcd.com/
> Operator, http://www.ussysadmin.com/operator/
> Knoppix-STD, http://www.knoppix-std.org/
> Inside Security Rescue Toolkit,
> http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
> End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 46, Issue 26
> **************************************
>



-- 
Always think about positive affirmations before going to sleep. This spirit
guides our subconscious as we sleep and creates our reality.
Giving thanks, for that which has not happened yet, allows a spirit/life
pattern to manifest in our lives.
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From guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com  Wed Nov 18 23:22:31 2009
From: guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com (Will McGinnis)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:22:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
In-Reply-To: <20091118173242.GL6625@linuxmafia.com>
References: <c4e67a470911180705re87c76akc0292ca8de8e8196@mail.gmail.com>
	<20091118173242.GL6625@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <f85408580911182322p6e4fef2fsfe60708ac7f8fa40@mail.gmail.com>

After all the talk about the recent Microsoft COFEE leak, I was doing some
searching and came across this site that has some good info:
http://www.forensicswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

And on that front page there's a link to:
http://www.computer-forensics-lab.org/pdf/Linux_for_computer_forensic_investigators.pdf-
"The paper opens discussion about building forensically sound Live CD
distributions based on Linux. "


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting Pseudo Anonymous (pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com):
>
> > Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
> > distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
> > such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
> > boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
> > access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
> > nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).
>
> Check with the applicable legal authorities about which of these are
> deemed to result in admissible evidence:
>
> DEFT Linux CD, http://www.deftlinux.net/
> CAINE Live CD, http://www.caine-live.net/
> FCCU GNU/Linux Forensic Boot CD, http://www.lnx4n6.be/
> Grml, http://grml.org/
> Helix3, https://www.e-fense.com/store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=11
>  (proprietary no longer maintained)
> Helix3 Pro, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php (proprietary)
> Masterkey Linux, http://www.e-fense.com/helix3pro.php
> SPADA, http://spada-cd.info/
> The Farmer's Boot CD, http://www.forensicbootcd.com/
> Operator, http://www.ussysadmin.com/operator/
> Knoppix-STD, http://www.knoppix-std.org/
> Inside Security Rescue Toolkit,
> http://www.inside-security.de/insert_en.html
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From aaleksey at ucla.edu  Thu Nov 19 12:40:02 2009
From: aaleksey at ucla.edu (aaleksey at ucla.edu)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:40:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] hardware blues
Message-ID: <20091119124002.11784hla6nwjydq8@mail.ucla.edu>

Greetings,

I am a recent Linux convert. It was during my last quarter in college  
that I became acquainted with the penguin, and now, far removed from  
the UCLA LUG, I come to you seeking sage counsel.

In my closet rests a [Clevo M570RU clone] Sager NP5790 with a dead  
[NVIDIA 7900GTX] video card and what seems to me to be an iffy power  
supply (I think it's the power supply anyway, as the computer will  
randomly turn off depending on whether or not it's connected to its  
charger).

In any case, I am interested in using Ubuntu Studio for audio  
production and was hoping that I might be able to salvage this  
computer for just that purpose. Unfortunately, I am currently running  
a VESA driver, which gives me a whopping 800x600 pixels to work with  
(along with some funky artifacts) and this random shutting down of the  
computer does nothing to make the experience more enjoyable.

I understand that laptops are a pain to work with but, assuming that  
the housing is not an issue (building a new one has been a  
long-standing project of mine, as the computer has always had cooling  
problems), how much hassle would resurrecting this beast entail? I  
called Sager to inquire about the video card and they estimated the  
total cost of repair to be ~$500, which would very nearly buy me a new  
computer. The thing is, I probably don't need a 512MB dedicated  
graphics card anymore (ah, video games, how I miss you) but it would  
be nice to see more than a fraction of Ardour at a time.

Please let me know if you've got some advice for me. Thank you for your time!



From ewalstad at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 13:23:56 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:23:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] hardware blues
In-Reply-To: <20091119124002.11784hla6nwjydq8@mail.ucla.edu>
References: <20091119124002.11784hla6nwjydq8@mail.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20911191323r3fcee50dm2be61e2d2f791885@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM,  <aaleksey at ucla.edu> wrote:
> In my closet rests a [Clevo M570RU clone] Sager NP5790 with a dead [NVIDIA
> 7900GTX] video card and what seems to me to be an iffy power supply (I think
> it's the power supply anyway, as the computer will randomly turn off
> depending on whether or not it's connected to its charger).
There's an issue with some laptops running some versions of Ubuntu[0]
that appear to have these same symptoms.  I had an older ThinkPad A31
running Jaunty shut itself down when under heavy load because the CPU
got too hot[1].  In my case, the CPU fan was running too slowly.  I
installed an older version of Ubuntu (Hardy: Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS) and
all is well.  I wrote a simple Python script[2] to log temperatures[3]
so that I could verify that my laptop was experiencing the thermal
shutdown under heavy load.

HTH,

Eric.
[0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/370173
[1]
Sep 9 22:16:12 mentawai kernel: [40329.165064] ACPI: Critical trip point
Sep 9 22:16:25 mentawai exiting on signal 15
[2] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31620435/log_temperatures.py
[3] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31620230/temperature.log



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Thu Nov 19 14:46:16 2009
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:46:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] hardware blues
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20911191323r3fcee50dm2be61e2d2f791885@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20091119124002.11784hla6nwjydq8@mail.ucla.edu>
	<c436fcd20911191323r3fcee50dm2be61e2d2f791885@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a0d56080911191446g1c04654ehf8404f14849c269c@mail.gmail.com>

There's a program -- unfortunately, I've only seen it on Fluxbox desktops --
called Conky, which monitors the system and gives you data, like
temperature, on your desktop. I think it's at conky.sourceforge.net

There are probably others, but that's the one I thought was pretty unique.

Larry Cafiero

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:23 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:40 PM,  <aaleksey at ucla.edu> wrote:
> > In my closet rests a [Clevo M570RU clone] Sager NP5790 with a dead
> [NVIDIA
> > 7900GTX] video card and what seems to me to be an iffy power supply (I
> think
> > it's the power supply anyway, as the computer will randomly turn off
> > depending on whether or not it's connected to its charger).
> There's an issue with some laptops running some versions of Ubuntu[0]
> that appear to have these same symptoms.  I had an older ThinkPad A31
> running Jaunty shut itself down when under heavy load because the CPU
> got too hot[1].  In my case, the CPU fan was running too slowly.  I
> installed an older version of Ubuntu (Hardy: Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS) and
> all is well.  I wrote a simple Python script[2] to log temperatures[3]
> so that I could verify that my laptop was experiencing the thermal
> shutdown under heavy load.
>
> HTH,
>
> Eric.
> [0] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/370173
> [1]
> Sep 9 22:16:12 mentawai kernel: [40329.165064] ACPI: Critical trip point
> Sep 9 22:16:25 mentawai exiting on signal 15
> [2] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31620435/log_temperatures.py
> [3] http://launchpadlibrarian.net/31620230/temperature.log
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
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From mjp at petty.me.uk  Thu Nov 19 17:16:56 2009
From: mjp at petty.me.uk (Matthew Petty)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:16:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Trouble getting an Apple iPod to work with Linux
Message-ID: <4B05EE08.8070805@petty.me.uk>

Hi,

I hope someone can help me. I have been trying for a long time to get my 
120GB Apple iPod "Classic" to work with my Ubuntu desktop. (It was a gift)
I've chronicled my efforts on my blog. The links are below, but the 
current situation is that it seems to sync up, and shows the iPod to be 
"half full", but then when I disconnect, the iPod says there are no 
music files.

http://petty.me.uk/wordpress/?p=511
http://petty.me.uk/wordpress/?p=592

I've tried all sorts of software, I've wiped my iPod and put replacement 
firmware on there, I've done all sorts. Would anyone be able to spare 
some time to help me one-on-one?

Hopefully,
Matthew Petty,
94114



From opietro at yahoo.com  Thu Nov 19 23:44:48 2009
From: opietro at yahoo.com (Owen Pietrokowsky)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:44:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only,
	without a battery (dead)
Message-ID: <221676.66052.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I received an older laptop, a Compaq Evo N600c, yesterday. It worked find today, then it suddenly wouldn't boot. Previous owners have had trouble with a loose power cord, and the battery (I'm told) is dead. When I take the battery out it works fine on AC only. Is it safe to use the laptop without a battery at home and outside? (I can't afford a new battery and it's easier to carry around a laptop sans a heavy battery. How do I cover the battery well safely?) Thanks in advance for any info.


Owen Pietrokowsky
Editor, writer 
Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
opietro at yahoo.com







      



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 20 00:27:12 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:27:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only,
	without a	battery (dead)
In-Reply-To: <221676.66052.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <221676.66052.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091120082712.GF6625@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Owen Pietrokowsky (opietro at yahoo.com):

> I received an older laptop, a Compaq Evo N600c, yesterday. 

Not bad for a 2003 laptop:  1.2 GHz Pentium III, 256 MB RAM standard,
expandable up to 576 MB (by putting a 512 MB 133 MHz SO-DIMM in slot 2)
 or even 1 GB (by removing the existing 256 MB stick from slot 1, and
putting 512 MB sticks in both slots).  Internal modem might be a
winmodem, but at least is on a minPCI socket, so you can replace it if
you wish.  Hard drive is somewhere from 20-40 GB.  Video chipset is ATI
Mobility Radeon.

> It worked fine today, then it suddenly wouldn't boot. Previous owners
> have had trouble with a loose power cord, and the battery (I'm told)
> is dead. When I take the battery out it works fine on AC only. Is it
> safe to use the laptop without a battery at home and outside? 

I think so.

> (I can't afford a new battery and it's easier to carry around a laptop
> sans a heavy battery....)

Really?  They're only around $60, if you shop around.  Worth it, I
think.




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Fri Nov 20 09:59:20 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:59:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] schedule is up!
Message-ID: <5fb387c70911200959u5e957c7s2b27c98340b14c43@mail.gmail.com>

OLPC-SF Community Summit 2009 schedule for Nov 21 is now posted at
http://bit.ly/2E2RAX

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Center for Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 13:18:14 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:18:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sampling the Linux Kernel Mailing List
Message-ID: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>

I was interested to peek in on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML)
but the volume is too much for me to keep up with.  So I wrote an RSS
feed that posts one message per day from LKML.  The message selection
is based on the LKML "Hottest Messages" page, selecting from the
"hottest" messages at half-life 1 day.  The feed is at:

http://modernhacker.com/feeds/rss/lkhot.xml

A new post is generated nightly by polling

http://lkml.org/hot.xml

I've only been running it for three days so please let me know if you
try it and find it useful.



From darose at darose.net  Fri Nov 20 13:25:36 2009
From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:25:36 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Sampling the Linux Kernel Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B070950.6090508@darose.net>

On 11/20/2009 04:18 PM, Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> I was interested to peek in on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML)
> but the volume is too much for me to keep up with.  So I wrote an RSS
> feed that posts one message per day from LKML.

Why not just monitor KernelTrap?

DR



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 14:23:36 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:23:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sampling the Linux Kernel Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <4B070950.6090508@darose.net>
References: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B070950.6090508@darose.net>
Message-ID: <683785120911201423o19d0fcb5ma42593e3ffeb3fad@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:25 PM, David Rosenstrauch <darose at darose.net> wrote:
> Why not just monitor KernelTrap?

I used to read KernelTrap but there has been nothing new on it for
over a year. I have seen many attempts by humans to monitor and
summarize LKML traffic and all have eventually stopped, because people
always get tired of doing it. The most up-to-date project I know of is
Jon Masters' LKML Summary Podcast

http://podcasts.jonmasters.org/kernel/kernel.xml

This is excellent and I also subscribe to it. It's a bit
apples-and-oranges to what I'm doing though. First, I prefer to read
the original text by Linus Torvalds or Alan Cox, not just a summary of
it, in order to appreciate the tone and personality. Second, I want a
system which is based on collective intelligence / crowd-sourcing,
rather than a single human editor. Third, I like the predictability of
receiving exactly one message per day.

I would be interested to hear about other resources people use to keep
up with kernel news. Certainly LWN.net is worth a look.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 20 14:28:23 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 14:28:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sampling the Linux Kernel Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <683785120911201423o19d0fcb5ma42593e3ffeb3fad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B070950.6090508@darose.net>
	<683785120911201423o19d0fcb5ma42593e3ffeb3fad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091120222823.GB29930@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> Second, I want a system which is based on collective intelligence /
> crowd-sourcing, rather than a single human editor. Third, I like the
> predictability of receiving exactly one message per day.
> 
> I would be interested to hear about other resources people use to keep
> up with kernel news. Certainly LWN.net is worth a look.

Oddly enough, the main reason LWN.net is worthwhile is human editors,
primarily a single human editor:  Jon Corbet.




From jim at well.com  Fri Nov 20 15:01:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:01:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help with ubuntu computer and hp laserjet 5 M
Message-ID: <1258758082.6687.7.camel@jim-laptop>


   person has a computer running ubuntu 9.04 as 
well as a computer running windows xp and a hp 
laserjet 5M that is connected directly to a third 
computer running windows xp but is unusably slow. 

   i want to disable the unusably slow computer and 
have the person use the ubuntu computer primarily 
(have already transferred contacts from old slow 
windows computer to ubuntu computer and have 
configured evolution to do email, which works). 

   the problem is that the person continues to use 
windows because of the printer. 
  
   HOW TO GET THE HP LASERJET 5 M PRINTER TO BE 
VISIBLE ON THE LAN? 

alternately, 

   HOW TO CONNECT THE HP LASERJET 5 M PRINTER TO 
THE UBUNTU MACHINE AND GET THE WINDOWS COMPUTER 
TO PRINT THROUGH THE UBUNTU MACHINE? 






From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 20 16:25:43 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:25:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help with ubuntu computer and hp laserjet 5 M
In-Reply-To: <1258758082.6687.7.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1258758082.6687.7.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091121002543.GC29930@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    person has a computer running ubuntu 9.04 as 
> well as a computer running windows xp and a hp 
> laserjet 5M that is connected directly to a third 
> computer running windows xp but is unusably slow. 
> 
>    i want to disable the unusably slow computer and 
> have the person use the ubuntu computer primarily 
> (have already transferred contacts from old slow 
> windows computer to ubuntu computer and have 
> configured evolution to do email, which works). 
> 
>    the problem is that the person continues to use 
> windows because of the printer. 
>   
>    HOW TO GET THE HP LASERJET 5 M PRINTER TO BE 
> VISIBLE ON THE LAN? 
> 
> alternately, 
> 
>    HOW TO CONNECT THE HP LASERJET 5 M PRINTER TO 
> THE UBUNTU MACHINE AND GET THE WINDOWS COMPUTER 
> TO PRINT THROUGH THE UBUNTU MACHINE? 

Jim, here's what I'd do:

The LaserJet 5M has an onboard ethernet port.  I see people ignoring
those ports all the time and going for slaving the printer off a
workstation's USB port, for not better reason than their thinking they
unserstand workstations and USB, but not understanding networks.  This
is tragic when the printer is a fully network-capable device natively,
as most HP printers are.

So:

1.  I would detach the printer from the workstation, and put it on the
LAN.  I would configure the printer to have a suitable static IP
address, and configure both lpr (Unix) printing and SMB (MS-Windows)
print services in the printer setup.  Consult HP docs for how to do
printer setup, but traditionally one could either telnet into the
printer or use (proprietary) JetAdmin software.  I hear that recent
HP printers also have administration via Web browser.

Note that SMB services are not strictly necessary:  MS-Windows machines
can print to lpr printers.  However, client configuration for that 
is a bit obscure, and also lpr devices don't show up in Network
Neighbourhood as browseable objects.

2.  Configure the Ubuntu machine's CUPS (localhost:631) admin pages to
print to the printer's IP as an lpr printer.  Print a test page.

3.  Configure MS-Windows to print to the printer as a native-Windows SMB
printer.  Print a test page.





From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Fri Nov 20 16:59:35 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:59:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only,
	without a battery (dead)
In-Reply-To: <20091120082712.GF6625@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <474709.94734.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

try batteryrefill.com

(sorry, Rick, I hit reply instead of reply all:-(
alex
a_kleider at yahoo.com


--- On Fri, 11/20/09, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only, without a battery (dead)
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 12:27 AM
> Quoting Owen Pietrokowsky (opietro at yahoo.com):
> 
> > I received an older laptop, a Compaq Evo N600c,
> yesterday. 
> 
> Not bad for a 2003 laptop:? 1.2 GHz Pentium III, 256
> MB RAM standard,
> expandable up to 576 MB (by putting a 512 MB 133 MHz
> SO-DIMM in slot 2)
>  or even 1 GB (by removing the existing 256 MB stick from
> slot 1, and
> putting 512 MB sticks in both slots).? Internal modem
> might be a
> winmodem, but at least is on a minPCI socket, so you can
> replace it if
> you wish.? Hard drive is somewhere from 20-40
> GB.? Video chipset is ATI
> Mobility Radeon.
> 
> > It worked fine today, then it suddenly wouldn't boot.
> Previous owners
> > have had trouble with a loose power cord, and the
> battery (I'm told)
> > is dead. When I take the battery out it works fine on
> AC only. Is it
> > safe to use the laptop without a battery at home and
> outside? 
> 
> I think so.
> 
> > (I can't afford a new battery and it's easier to carry
> around a laptop
> > sans a heavy battery....)
> 
> Really?? They're only around $60, if you shop
> around.? Worth it, I
> think.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 


      




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Nov 20 18:17:00 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:17:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only,
	without a	battery (dead)
In-Reply-To: <474709.94734.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <20091120082712.GF6625@linuxmafia.com>
	<474709.94734.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091121021700.GE29930@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):

> try batteryrefill.com

$55.

http://www.batteryrefill.com/laptops/compaq/evo_n600.phtml




From kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com  Fri Nov 20 19:46:36 2009
From: kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com (Kai Chang)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 19:46:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Advice on running a laptop on AC only,
	without a battery 	(dead)
In-Reply-To: <221676.66052.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <221676.66052.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5200c28f0911201946n11e222a4q429f0759aad41f92@mail.gmail.com>

The computer still won't boot?  It should be fine to use with AC-- I've been
running my laptop for two years now just on AC.  I tried a new battery
recently but I couldn't charge it (discharged just fine).  If the power cord
is loose, it's probably not worth the pain of refilling or buying a new
battery.

The one thing is if the AC gets pulled, your PC just shuts right down which
is a pain.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Owen Pietrokowsky <opietro at yahoo.com>wrote:

> I received an older laptop, a Compaq Evo N600c, yesterday. It worked find
> today, then it suddenly wouldn't boot. Previous owners have had trouble with
> a loose power cord, and the battery (I'm told) is dead. When I take the
> battery out it works fine on AC only. Is it safe to use the laptop without a
> battery at home and outside? (I can't afford a new battery and it's easier
> to carry around a laptop sans a heavy battery. How do I cover the battery
> well safely?) Thanks in advance for any info.
>
>
> Owen Pietrokowsky
> Editor, writer
> Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
> opietro at yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>



-- 
Kai Chang  |  kai.salmon.chang at gmail.com
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From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 21 11:18:05 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:18:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sampling the Linux Kernel Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <683785120911201318r68054b42ge528266bae9bd40c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B083CED.9080106@gmail.com>

love it. thanks.

Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> I was interested to peek in on the Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML)
> but the volume is too much for me to keep up with.  So I wrote an RSS
> feed that posts one message per day from LKML.  The message selection
> is based on the LKML "Hottest Messages" page, selecting from the
> "hottest" messages at half-life 1 day.  The feed is at:
> 
> http://modernhacker.com/feeds/rss/lkhot.xml
> 
> A new post is generated nightly by polling
> 
> http://lkml.org/hot.xml
> 
> I've only been running it for three days so please let me know if you
> try it and find it useful.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Nov 21 15:41:43 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:41:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: SF-LUG.COM. - operational again on 208.96.15.252
In-Reply-To: <20091121142859.44053mgjarkitz8k@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20091121142859.44053mgjarkitz8k@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20091121154143.85294fbdcg2aa204@webmail.rawbw.com>

I went ahead and got DNS working properly again on 208.96.15.252
("master" for SF-LUG.COM.)

Systems Administrators of the sflug domU (on "vicki" dom0) may
more fully inspect the log and config files within
current sf-lug.com. host (sflug domU (on "vicki" dom0)).

As far as I'm aware,
file://sf-lug.com/var/local/log/log
isn't presently publicly accessible (but that may change
in the future).

from:
file://sf-lug.com/var/local/log/log
we have (excerpts, ... where item(s) not shown):
2009-11-21 UTC Michael Paoli
DNS still not in place and operational - proceeded to take care of that
and some other miscellaneous items.
...
applied security and critical bug updates:
...
added additional software:
installed bind9 version 9.3.4-2etch5
installed bind9-doc version 9.3.4-2etch5
shutdown running named:
# /etc/init.d/bind9 stop
based upon these files and their data from the older former host:
file://sf-lug.com/var/named/chroot/etc/named.conf
file://sf-lug.com/var/named/chroot/var/named/.sf-lug.com.swp
file://sf-lug.com/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
file://sf-lug.com/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com.SAF
file://sf-lug.com/var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com.SAFOLD
placed these files:
/etc/bind/.sf-lug.com.swp
/etc/bind/sf-lug.com.SAF
/etc/bind/sf-lug.com.SAFOLD
/etc/bind/sf-lug.com
and edited these files:
/etc/bind/sf-lug.com
/etc/bind/named.conf.local
/etc/bind/named.conf.options
restarted named:
# (cd / && umask 022 && /etc/init.d/bind9 start)

and from earlier email (excerpts):

Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:

> DNS is now functioning properly again on 208.96.15.252
> (it had been down since sometime on 2009-11-11 PST (-0800) due to
> system "replacement"/substitution).
>
> references/excerpts:
> $ dig -t A ns2.sf-lug.com. +short
> 198.144.195.186
> $ dig -t A ns1.sf-lug.com. +short
> 208.96.15.252
> $ dig @ns2.sf-lug.com. -t SOA sf-lug.com. +short
> ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2007102904 3600 3600 1209600 10800
> $ dig @ns2.sf-lug.com. -t SOA sf-lug.com. +short
> ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2009112100 3600 3600 1209600 10800
> $ dig @ns1.sf-lug.com. -t SOA sf-lug.com. +short
> ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. 2009112100 3600 3600 1209600 10800
> $
> http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/date.html
> and various off-list emails

references/excerpts:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/date.html




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Nov 21 17:17:44 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:17:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1258574404.21596.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1258574404.21596.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091121171744.15531no8xrb03mlc@webmail.rawbw.com>

Some bits that might help, in not necessarily any particular order.

o Follow one's documented incident response plan (the handling of such
   incidents was properly planned for, right?).
o Having, or not having the above, DON'T PANIC!  Quick rash decisions
   can cause problems, and may not be reversible.
o There's often the typical trade-off to be considered between:
   o Continue to watch, track, and investigate; try not to tip one's hand
     (at least not prematurely, anyway).
   o Shut stuff down, try to thwart further damage, clean up, and move on
   o One may not have a choice (e.g. governmental, law enforcement,
     contractual obligations, practical matters and/or policy may dictate
     what methods are used, and when).
o Never trust that a compromised system is reporting anything
   accurately, or is, or was doing what it should be doing.  E.g. "root
   kits", kernel modules, etc. can make it infeasible to impossible to
   determine from compromised system itself if the system itself is
   compromised or not.
o Shutting down as or about as abruptly as possible may enhance
   preservation of disk data.  "Normal" shutdown procedures/sequences may
   be compromised, and may alter or destroy evidence.  E.g. for fast
   shutdown, remove power - for a laptop that may entail removing
   external power and pulling the laptop battery.  Note also that many
   modern systems, when "power switch"/button is pressed may not
   immediately shut down, but instead will (with short press), attempt to
   start a normal shutdown procedure (press and hold may drop power - but
   it might not be fast enough, as that may attempt to start normal
   shutdown procedures first).  Removing power connections (power cords)
   and pulling any (e.g. laptop) battery power source may be best and
   fastest.  Absolutely no guarantees that such an approach would be
   harmless to all hardware (e.g. pulling laptop battery from a running
   laptop may damage the laptop hardware and/or battery - but is
   improbable to damage the hard drive hardware).
o shutting down may lose evidence of what's resident in RAM - and
   possibly only in RAM - some malware will run only in RAM and not exist
   on disk (e.g. some network worms / bot nets may operate that way to
   make it harder to catch and examine the malware).
o shutting down allows one to then boot from good known operating system
   (e.g. validated CD-ROM or USB, etc.), and examine disk(/flash/ROM/...)
   of compromised or suspected compromised system - and to accurately see
   what is there.
o Don't know that it's ever been used or successfully used in any public
   forensics cases or the like yet, but copying a full image of the hard
   drive data isn't quite the same.  There are advanced techniques,
   which, at least in theory, may allow for recovery of data that was
   physically overwritten on the hard drive.  This evidence may not be
   accessible from the external interfaces of the hard drive (may require
   access to raw data from drive heads and/or advanced scanning of the
   magnetic media).  See, e.g.:
   http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html
o Stuff (e.g. malware) can be tucked away in CMOS/BIOS/flash, etc.
   BIOS/CMOS may allow areas of disk to be "hidden"/reserved - stuff
   could be hidden there.  Filesystems and storage can be abused - e.g.
   data stored where it shouldn't legitimately belong, or filesystems
   tampered with in ways to further hide data.
o It's often/generally infeasible to "clean up" the data/programs, etc.
   of a compromised system - most commonly much more efficient to do a
   fresh clean install, apply security updates/patches, make sufficiently
   sure vulnerabilities that allowed exploit have been closed, and if any
   data/programs are going to be merged or brought in from what was
   compromised system/image, they must be fully validated as
   clean/correct before reintroducing them.
o clean-up; don't trust information reported by or actions taken by
   compromised or possibly compromised system, see also:
   http://www.cert.org/tech_tips/win-UNIX-system_compromise.html
o Have a peek at:
    
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2009-June/000131.html
o Many other good/excellent points/tips already earlier on this
   list/thread:
   http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/date.html
o I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.
o I am not a forensics expert.

references/excerpts:

> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:05:33 -0800
> From: Pseudo Anonymous <pseudo.anonymous70 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] forensics with Linux
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> forensics with Linux
>
> Let's say someone hands us a laptop that is or likely has been
> compromised.  Let's say we actually want to preserve an exact image
> copy of the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we also want to compute some
> secure cryptographic hashes of entire laptop hard drive and
> digitally sign - such as with gpg - those hashes and statement about
> those hashes.  Let's say we've got quite sufficiently large external
> USB drive that we can attach and that wasn't at all involved in
> compromise and hasn't been attached to that laptop before.
>
> So, how would we best proceed to: boot Linux off of CD or DVD (or
> possibly even USB stick) and make absolutely no write access to the
> laptop hard drive - e.g. nothing that would automatically or by default
> mount or attempt to mount anything on the laptop filesystem(s) rw?
> We'd also want to be sure nothing attempts to run/boot/execute anything
> off the laptop hard drive.  Let's say we've got someone that well knows
> how to wield fdisk/cfdisk/sfdisk/mke2fs/dd/gpg/openssl, and at least
> most common Linux systems administration tasks, but may or may not be a
> forensics expert, and we're mostly interested in preserving evidence of
> state and data of laptop hard drive.
>
> Any particular recommendations of handy readily available Linux
> distribution that would be best/easiest to accomplish these tasks -
> such as run from live CD image, and if needed, including actions or
> boot options to ensure it doesn't make or attempt to make any write
> access to laptop hard drive by default including having it not making
> nor attempting to make any rw mounts of laptop filesystem(s).
>
> And for the legal or legally inclined folks, particular recommendations
> for evidence preservation/handling for possible use in criminal and/or
> civil case(s) in such described situation?




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Nov 23 21:25:27 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:25:27 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: last SOA sub-field TTL --> Negative Cache TTL,
	comments, etc.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.173.1258513737.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.173.1258513737.20777.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20091123212527.14654sl8uwgtgv0g@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:17:00 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] SF-LUG DNS
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20091117201700.GO6625 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
>
>> # cat var/named/chroot/var/named/sf-lug.com
>> $TTL 86400
>> $ORIGIN sf-lug.COM.
>> @       IN      SOA     ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
>>                         2007102904      ;Serial
>>                         3600            ;refresh period
>>                         3600            ;retry period
>>                         1209600         ;expire period
>>                         10800)          ;minimum TTL period
>> ;
>
> Minor correction:  The last SOA sub-field hasn't signified "minimum TTL
> period" since BIND4 days.  The above annotation is a dusty holdover,
> probably copied from an old example file, and should be replaced.  The
> new-er purpose of that subfield is "negative TTL" aka "negative
> caching", which is how many seconds a nameserver should cache a NAME
> ERROR (NXDOMAIN) record.

Good catch.  Knowing ... and also taking a quick peek around ... I find
in BALUG.ORG.'s master DNS files, the comment portion indicates
"minimum", or "MINIMUM", with no reference to TTL (but no mention of
cache or negative).  Peeking for a better example, in current Debian
stable, I find "Negative Cache TTL".  I think that works well -
accurate and concise.  Anyway, I've updated the comment data in the
applicable SF-LUG.COM. zone file(s) for that SOA subfield (and will
probably do likewise next time I'm updating BALUG.ORG master
(sub)domain/zone files.

Good comments in code/configurations can be rather to quite helpful (and
generally should be).  But programs, etc., generally ignore comments -
so unfortunately comments may be inconsistent with code/configuration.
Comments at least ought not to lie or mislead - but sometimes they do -
useful to keep in mind when troubleshooting, reviewing
code/configurations, etc.




From aropoika at earthlink.net  Wed Nov 25 12:48:46 2009
From: aropoika at earthlink.net (BillHill)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:48:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] hp laptop screen
Message-ID: <7603555.1259182127039.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello 'Luggers',
Well, the other day I finally received the replacement screen I bought for Mikki's hp (pavilion zv5000) laptop (that she got from sf-lug folks, which subsequently 'died' and was diagnosed at our coffeehouse meeting a while back as a 'dead screen', since video did show up on an external monitor).  I installed the *new* screen and its still 'dead', I'm still puzzled, and will be at noisebridge tonite hoping someone can help figure out whats next.  I'm thinking it may be in video driver circuits, as software/live cd/etc seem to work/beep/etc but just can't see anything on the *new* screen.

--billhill




From jim at well.com  Wed Nov 25 13:35:34 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:35:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion at noisebridge tonight from 6 to 8 PM
Message-ID: <1259184934.6388.21.camel@jim-laptop>


linux discussion group tonight at noisebridge: 
2169 mission very near 18th st in san francisco, 
6 PM to 8 PM. 

bill hill is bringing a laptop with a seemingly 
dead display: note external monitor works, but 
replacement internal display does not--we're 
hoping for diagnostic help. 





From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 14:01:31 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:01:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application) that comes up
 when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
Message-ID: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>

it's the one that asks for my password to unlock the screen and has 4 
tabs at the bottom, one of them to log in as a different user.

standard ubuntu with gnome desktop

reason i ask is that ever since i upgraded to koala, this screen and 
everything afterwards has corrupted video, unless i click on the second 
from left button (which i'm pretty sure is the one to change users, 
which i'm pretty sure resets the video card, which appears to fix the 
problem). then i log in as myself and everything is fine.

i'm guessing there was an update to this application which skips 
resetting the video card, at least for my video driver (lenova t60, 
intel 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML)

any tips appreciated, but the name of the application would at least 
help me start my search.



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 16:16:18 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:16:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application) that
	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120911271616v12411284qcfe90986af19b461@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Michael Shiloh
<michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> it's the one that asks for my password to unlock the screen and has 4 tabs
> at the bottom, one of them to log in as a different user.

xscreensaver maybe? You could ssh in while it's running and do a ps.



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 16:36:01 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:36:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application) that
 comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <683785120911271616v12411284qcfe90986af19b461@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
	<683785120911271616v12411284qcfe90986af19b461@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B107071.8000300@michaelshiloh.com>



Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Michael Shiloh
> <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it's the one that asks for my password to unlock the screen and has 4 tabs
>> at the bottom, one of them to log in as a different user.
> 
> xscreensaver maybe? You could ssh in while it's running and do a ps.
> 

good idea. looks like the default with gnome is gnome-screensaver, but i 
had some bits and pieces of xscreensaver from previous experiments, 
which may have gotten in the way.

i'll try removing xscreensaver, and will also check with ssh as you suggest.


m



From grantbow at gmail.com  Fri Nov 27 20:57:39 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 22:57:39 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application) that
	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <4B107071.8000300@michaelshiloh.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
	<683785120911271616v12411284qcfe90986af19b461@mail.gmail.com>
	<4B107071.8000300@michaelshiloh.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0911272057v7521ac4ev54986a34e4cbc469@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Michael Shiloh
<michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it's the one that asks for my password to unlock the screen and has 4
>>> tabs
>>> at the bottom, one of them to log in as a different user.
>>
>> xscreensaver maybe? You could ssh in while it's running and do a ps.
>
> good idea. looks like the default with gnome is gnome-screensaver, but i had
> some bits and pieces of xscreensaver from previous experiments, which may
> have gotten in the way.
>
> i'll try removing xscreensaver, and will also check with ssh as you suggest.

Hi Michael & Jesse,

I just ran a test with "ps auxww | egrep -i saver" before and with the
dialog on the screen using a virtual terminal.  It looks like the
binary is launched as
"/usr/lib/gnome-screensaver/gnome-screensaver-dialog --status-message=
--enable-switch" on my mostly default 9.10 Karmic system.

Cheers,

Grant Bowman
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam



From nbs at sonic.net  Sat Nov 28 12:05:23 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:05:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application) that
	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 02:01:31PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> reason i ask is that ever since i upgraded to koala, this screen and 
> everything afterwards has corrupted video, unless i click on the second 
> from left button (which i'm pretty sure is the one to change users, 
> which i'm pretty sure resets the video card, which appears to fix the 
> problem). then i log in as myself and everything is fine.
> 
> i'm guessing there was an update to this application which skips 
> resetting the video card, at least for my video driver (lenova t60, 
> intel 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML)

I'm still using 9.04 and this happens to me too, but only
occasionally.  Switching to a virtual terminal (text mode),
i.e. with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F1], then back to X (graphics mode)
with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F7] seems to fix it.

I've got a Dell Inspiron 1525 and my xorg.conf mentions Intel 965GM,
so it's probably related.

I get a lot of horizontal stripes around the screen, kind of like this:

            ____      ____      ____     ____

        ____      ____      ____     ____

    ____      ____      ____     ____

          ____      ____      ____     ____

etc.

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 15:55:56 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 15:55:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application)
 that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com> <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B11B88C.6070305@gmail.com>



Bill Kendrick wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 02:01:31PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> reason i ask is that ever since i upgraded to koala, this screen and 
>> everything afterwards has corrupted video, unless i click on the second 
>> from left button (which i'm pretty sure is the one to change users, 
>> which i'm pretty sure resets the video card, which appears to fix the 
>> problem). then i log in as myself and everything is fine.
>>
>> i'm guessing there was an update to this application which skips 
>> resetting the video card, at least for my video driver (lenova t60, 
>> intel 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML)
> 
> I'm still using 9.04 and this happens to me too, but only
> occasionally.  Switching to a virtual terminal (text mode),
> i.e. with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F1], then back to X (graphics mode)
> with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F7] seems to fix it.
> 
> I've got a Dell Inspiron 1525 and my xorg.conf mentions Intel 965GM,
> so it's probably related.
> 
> I get a lot of horizontal stripes around the screen, kind of like this:
> 
>             ____      ____      ____     ____
> 
>         ____      ____      ____     ____
> 
>     ____      ____      ____     ____
> 
>           ____      ____      ____     ____
> 


Yep, that's exactly what I see, and your workaround works perfectly for 
me as well, suggesting it's the same problem. Interesting that you've 
had it since 9.04 and only occasionally, whereas I never had this happen 
with 9.04 but have had it 100% consistently since upgrading to 9.10.

Perhaps this is irrelevant, but just for completeness I should mention 
that I upgraded to 9.10 with a developer version, before the official 
release, but only a month or so.

Clearly this problem has nothing to do with the gnome-screensaver 
password dialogue box. It probably has to do with the video driver not 
resetting or clearing memory, and by switching to a virtual console and 
back we force it to reset something.

Not a big issue, but I'm extremely curious. I'd love to know what's 
going on.

Michael



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 16:19:52 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 16:19:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application)
 that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0911272057v7521ac4ev54986a34e4cbc469@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>	<683785120911271616v12411284qcfe90986af19b461@mail.gmail.com>	<4B107071.8000300@michaelshiloh.com>
	<317e39f0911272057v7521ac4ev54986a34e4cbc469@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B11BE28.9000307@gmail.com>



Grant Bowman wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 6:36 PM, Michael Shiloh
> <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
>>> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Michael Shiloh <michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> it's the one that asks for my password to unlock the screen and has 4
>>>> tabs
>>>> at the bottom, one of them to log in as a different user.
>>> xscreensaver maybe? You could ssh in while it's running and do a ps.
>> good idea. looks like the default with gnome is gnome-screensaver, but i had
>> some bits and pieces of xscreensaver from previous experiments, which may
>> have gotten in the way.
>>
>> i'll try removing xscreensaver, and will also check with ssh as you suggest.
> 
> Hi Michael & Jesse,
> 
> I just ran a test with "ps auxww | egrep -i saver" before and with the
> dialog on the screen using a virtual terminal.  It looks like the
> binary is launched as
> "/usr/lib/gnome-screensaver/gnome-screensaver-dialog --status-message=
> --enable-switch" on my mostly default 9.10 Karmic system.


excellent - thanks for the info. jesse was right.

i did try using xscreensaver instead of gnome-screensaver and results 
are the same, confirming it has nothing to do with the screensaver.



From nbs at sonic.net  Sat Nov 28 17:25:15 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 17:25:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application)
	that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <4B11B88C.6070305@gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com> <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
	<4B11B88C.6070305@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091129012515.GA21332@sonic.net>

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 03:55:56PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Yep, that's exactly what I see, and your workaround works perfectly for 
> me as well, suggesting it's the same problem. Interesting that you've 
> had it since 9.04 and only occasionally, whereas I never had this happen 
> with 9.04 but have had it 100% consistently since upgrading to 9.10.

Oh, I forgot to mention that 9.04 (or was it 8.10) introduced
a major slowdown in the Intel driver, so I ended up finding a
repository that included the older version(?) of the driver,
and have been using that.  *shrug*

-bill!



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 20:02:47 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 20:02:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application)
 that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com> <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B11F267.1050101@gmail.com>



Bill Kendrick wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 02:01:31PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> reason i ask is that ever since i upgraded to koala, this screen and 
>> everything afterwards has corrupted video, unless i click on the second 
>> from left button (which i'm pretty sure is the one to change users, 
>> which i'm pretty sure resets the video card, which appears to fix the 
>> problem). then i log in as myself and everything is fine.
>>
>> i'm guessing there was an update to this application which skips 
>> resetting the video card, at least for my video driver (lenova t60, 
>> intel 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML)
> 
> I'm still using 9.04 and this happens to me too, but only
> occasionally.  Switching to a virtual terminal (text mode),
> i.e. with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F1], then back to X (graphics mode)
> with [Ctrl]+[Alt]+[F7] seems to fix it.
> 
> I've got a Dell Inspiron 1525 and my xorg.conf mentions Intel 965GM,
> so it's probably related.


You know, my xorg.conf does not mention any driver. Could I get a copy 
of yours?

M



From opietro at yahoo.com  Sat Nov 28 22:51:49 2009
From: opietro at yahoo.com (Owen Pietrokowsky)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 22:51:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
Message-ID: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Greetings,

Thanks to sf-lug members for your recent advice on used laptops. I got my laptop working a few days ago, and it was an excellent learning experience. On a somewhat different subject, I am looking for tech. editing work. and any leads would be very much appreciated.

I have over five years of editing experience in technical and
scientific fields, including editing hardware manuals, technical
bulletins and similar materials. I have done volunteer editing on the
OpenMoko Freerunner web site. I have written summaries of scientific
talks for the Materials Research Society and edited material for
Springer Science publications. Also, I have worked with Manufacturing
and Field Service in the EDA industry.

Owen


Owen Pietrokowsky
Editor, writer 
Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
opietro at yahoo.com

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/owenpietrokowsky





      
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From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 23:14:04 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 23:14:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen
 (application)	that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <20091129012515.GA21332@sonic.net>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com>
	<20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>	<4B11B88C.6070305@gmail.com>
	<20091129012515.GA21332@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B121F3C.40508@gmail.com>



Bill Kendrick wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 03:55:56PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> Yep, that's exactly what I see, and your workaround works perfectly for 
>> me as well, suggesting it's the same problem. Interesting that you've 
>> had it since 9.04 and only occasionally, whereas I never had this happen 
>> with 9.04 but have had it 100% consistently since upgrading to 9.10.
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention that 9.04 (or was it 8.10) introduced
> a major slowdown in the Intel driver, so I ended up finding a
> repository that included the older version(?) of the driver,
> and have been using that.  *shrug*

You may find this helpful. It really improved my performance (although 
did nothing for the original issue, not that I expected it to):

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/intel-graphics-performance-guide-for-ubuntu-904-jaunty-users.html



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sun Nov 29 09:14:24 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:14:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
In-Reply-To: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <454831.72086.qm@web82801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Owen,
Where have you been looking? Definitely remember to post your resume on Craigslist every 3 days. That seems to be how often the allow you to post.

Also, the economy is getting much better. Last year at this time, I had several jobs pulled out from under me. Now I'm doing bit work and getting referrals to other potential clients.

Vince




________________________________
From: Owen Pietrokowsky <opietro at yahoo.com>
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Sent: Sat, November 28, 2009 10:51:49 PM
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work


Greetings,

Thanks to sf-lug members for your recent advice on used laptops. I got my laptop working a few days ago, and it was an excellent learning experience. On a somewhat different subject, I am looking for tech. editing work. and any leads would be very much appreciated.

I have over five years of editing experience in technical and
scientific fields, including editing hardware manuals, technical
bulletins and similar materials. I have done volunteer editing on the
OpenMoko Freerunner web site. I have written summaries of scientific
talks for the Materials Research Society and edited material for
Springer Science publications. Also, I have worked with Manufacturing
and Field Service in the EDA industry.

Owen


Owen Pietrokowsky
Editor, writer 
Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
opietro at yahoo.com

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/owenpietrokowsky
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From nbs at sonic.net  Sun Nov 29 11:44:05 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:44:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] what is the name of the screen (application)
	that	comes up when my laptop wakes from hibernate?
In-Reply-To: <4B11F267.1050101@gmail.com>
References: <4B104C3B.2090103@gmail.com> <20091128200523.GA624@sonic.net>
	<4B11F267.1050101@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091129194405.GA28413@sonic.net>

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 08:02:47PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> 
> You know, my xorg.conf does not mention any driver. Could I get a copy 
> of yours?

The stanzas in question are:

Section "Screen"
        Identifier      "Laptop"
        Device          "Intel 965GM"
        Monitor         "Laptop"
        DefaultDepth    24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth   24
                Modes           "1280x800" "800x600" "640x480"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier      "HDMI"
        Device          "Intel 965GM"
        Monitor         "HDMI"
        DefaultDepth    24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth   24
                Modes   "1920x1200"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier      "VGA"
        Device          "Intel 965GM"
        Monitor         "VGA"
        DefaultDepth    24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth   24
                Modes   "1280x1024"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "Screen"
        Identifier      "TV"
        Device          "Intel 965GM"
        Monitor         "TV"
        DefaultDepth    24
        SubSection "Display"
                Depth   24
                Modes   "800x600"
        EndSubSection
EndSection




And here's the /etc/apt/sources.list lines for the driver I'm using:

deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/siretart/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/siretart/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main


Again, this is on [K]ubuntu 9.04 (Jaunty).  I have not dared upgrade
yet, since I haven't had an extended amount of time to do it,
in case I have to breathe life back into my laptop.  (It's my sole
system, and I use it for work.)

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From nbs at sonic.net  Sun Nov 29 11:47:41 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:47:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
In-Reply-To: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net>

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 10:51:49PM -0800, Owen Pietrokowsky wrote:
>    I have over five years of editing experience in technical and scientific   
>    fields, including editing hardware manuals, technical bulletins and        
>    similar materials. I have done volunteer editing on the OpenMoko           
>    Freerunner web site. I have written summaries of scientific talks for the  
>    Materials Research Society and edited material for Springer Science        
>    publications. Also, I have worked with Manufacturing and Field Service in  
>    the EDA industry.

Good luck in your search.  In my years as webmaster for LUGOD out here in Davis,
I've seen all sorts of positions posted to our jobs mailing list and our Job Page.
Oddly, I don't recall ever seeing 'technical writer.'  I guess people who come
to us with jobs are usually looking for very Linux-specific stuff, and when
they're not, they don't think to come to us.  (LUGs are usually pretty diverse
groups.)

Not that I want to get in the business of job listings, but I wonder what
we (LUGOD, at least) could do to encourage people to tell us about
a wider range of jobs.  (Not just 'sysadmin', 'php programmer', 'c programmer',
like we get almost exclusively.)

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 12:06:12 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:06:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
In-Reply-To: <20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B12D434.40909@gmail.com>



Bill Kendrick wrote:

> Not that I want to get in the business of job listings, but I wonder what
> we (LUGOD, at least) could do to encourage people to tell us about
> a wider range of jobs.  (Not just 'sysadmin', 'php programmer', 'c programmer',
> like we get almost exclusively.)
> 

Just brainstorming on Bill's idea:

Could add something to the website or fliers or business cards (if you 
have these) saying something like

"Linux enthusiasts come from many diverse backgrounds and careers, not 
limited to the computer science field. A common quality is that they are 
all highly self-motivated, dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. If 
you are looking for employees of this sort please consider letting us know.

Am I over glorifying us? I think not. Anyone willing to spend the amount 
of hours we do trying to understand and tweak our operating system must 
have these qualities.



From nbs at sonic.net  Sun Nov 29 13:35:38 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 13:35:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
In-Reply-To: <4B12D434.40909@gmail.com>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net> <4B12D434.40909@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091129213538.GA27700@sonic.net>

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:06:12PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> "Linux enthusiasts come from many diverse backgrounds and careers, not 
> limited to the computer science field. A common quality is that they are 
> all highly self-motivated, dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. If 
> you are looking for employees of this sort please consider letting us know.

Hey, I like. :)  Added to http://www.lugod.org/jobs/

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sun Nov 29 14:21:41 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:21:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
In-Reply-To: <20091129213538.GA27700@sonic.net>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net>
	<4B12D434.40909@gmail.com> <20091129213538.GA27700@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4B12F3F5.2070908@gmail.com>

very happy to help. if you know any headhunters, might point that out to 
them as well. i'm sure they already come to you for techy jobs.

jim, worth doing on the sf-lug site?

Bill Kendrick wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:06:12PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>> "Linux enthusiasts come from many diverse backgrounds and careers, not 
>> limited to the computer science field. A common quality is that they are 
>> all highly self-motivated, dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. If 
>> you are looking for employees of this sort please consider letting us know.
> 
> Hey, I like. :)  Added to http://www.lugod.org/jobs/
> 



From jim at well.com  Sun Nov 29 15:09:24 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:09:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking	work
In-Reply-To: <4B12F3F5.2070908@gmail.com>
References: <89204.43722.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20091129194741.GB28413@sonic.net> <4B12D434.40909@gmail.com>
	<20091129213538.GA27700@sonic.net>  <4B12F3F5.2070908@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1259536164.6386.121.camel@jim-laptop>


   matter of fact, yes, that and other things too, 
which brings me to: who'd like to help out doing 
what? there's regular sys adm stuff, web stuff, 
maybe managing the wiki, maybe some programmatic 
needs, willing and able to go to the spear street 
colo if need be, helping to get speakers for the 
once-a-month balug meetings in chinatown.... 
   for jobs that need sensitive passwords, we're 
hoping to limit the number of persons sharing 
such to three. "we" currently is michael paoli 
(on the balug side) and me (on the sf-lug side). 





On Sun, 2009-11-29 at 14:21 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> very happy to help. if you know any headhunters, might point that out to 
> them as well. i'm sure they already come to you for techy jobs.
> 
> jim, worth doing on the sf-lug site?
> 
> Bill Kendrick wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 12:06:12PM -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> >> "Linux enthusiasts come from many diverse backgrounds and careers, not 
> >> limited to the computer science field. A common quality is that they are 
> >> all highly self-motivated, dedicated, hard-working, and intelligent. If 
> >> you are looking for employees of this sort please consider letting us know.
> > 
> > Hey, I like. :)  Added to http://www.lugod.org/jobs/
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com  Tue Dec  1 07:49:42 2009
From: mason.christopher.thomas at gmail.com (Chris Mason)
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 07:49:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] experienced tech. editor and sf-lug member seeking work
Message-ID: <c8c30a7c0912010749xf242cfn94b37a11a4978c13@mail.gmail.com>

>Not that I want to get in the business of job listings, but I wonder what we (LUGOD, at least) could do to encourage people to tell us about a wider range of jobs.  (Not just 'sysadmin', 'php programmer', 'c programmer', like we get almost exclusively.)

advertise this mailing list on craigslist? no idea if CL policy allows that...


regards,

chris



From bill at wards.net  Thu Dec  3 12:00:04 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 12:00:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 12/10/2009
Message-ID: <E1NGHqO-0004bU-AP@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:

   +------------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |Date:    |Thursday, December 10, 2009                                   |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |Time:    |6:00 - 8:00 PM                                                |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |         |Bayshore Technology Park                                      |
   |Location:|1300 Island Drive                                             |
   |         |Redwood City, CA 94065                                        |
   |         |Suite 106 - Training Room                                     |
   |---------+--------------------------------------------------------------|
   |RSVP:    |Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=334887505530  |
   |         |or mail rsvp at penlug.org                                       |
   +------------------------------------------------------------------------+

   Agenda:

     * 6:00 PM Free pizza arrives
     * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes
     * 6:30 PM Presentation begins
     * 8:00 PM Meeting ends

  Hacker Dojo

   Hacker Dojo is one of the fastest growing hackerspaces in the world and is
   even getting attention from the mainstream media. But it's not the first
   of its kind. Hacker Dojo followed SuperHappyDevHouse, BarCamp, the
   coworking and hackerspace movements, but also the French Salons and early
   Royal Society meetings of the 17th century. These kinds of gatherings lead
   to intellectual revolutions and shift paradigms. So how do we encourage
   and support more of these? In fact, how far can we take it?

  David Weekly

   David Weekly started PBwiki (now PBWorks) in 2003 after working Legato,
   There.com, MIT Lincoln Labs, Harvard Physics, atWeb, and Stanford. He
   graduated as a President Scholar from Stanford with a BS in Computer
   Science. David is also a Founding Director of Hacker Dojo, an 8000+ square
   foot non-profit community center for innovation in Mountain View, with
   over 100 members. David enjoys philosophical debate, adventure, flying
   helicopters, bringing people together and mentoring entrepreneurs. He does
   not, however, like eggplant.

  Jeff Lindsay

   Jeff Lindsay is a systems thinking hacker-philosopher. Jeff co-founded
   SuperHappyDevHouse and Hacker Dojo, two iconic symbols of Silicon Valley
   culture. He also spearheaded the initiative for an event-driven
   programmable web by identifying and promoting the pattern of WebHooks,
   used by companies like Google, GitHub, PBworks, Socialtext and others.
   With dozens of new and ongoing projects, his motto is "always be
   shipping." Currently he is contracted by NASA to help build cloud
   computing infrastructure for the government.

RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
      http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From jim at well.com  Sat Dec  5 12:22:50 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2009 12:22:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets sunday, 20091206, at cafe enchante,
	11 AM to 1 PM (or	so)
Message-ID: <1260044570.6438.68.camel@jim-laptop>


come on by, chat, bring problems, share your 
discoveries about linux features. 
cafe enchante, geary blvd at 26th ave in san 
francisco; 11 AM to 1 PM or so. 





From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net  Tue Dec  8 09:58:07 2009
From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis)
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 09:58:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ...interesting job opp?
Message-ID: <72953.87977.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

sneeze-ons greetings, SFLuggists.

i found this job opening and thought to fwd it.  no $ stated, sorry:

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings/Office_IT_Manager

from the webpage:
"

Apply 
Please send a CV and cover letter to jobswikimedia.org before December 15, 2009.  Please put the position title (Office IT Manager) in your subject line. 
Applications that do not include a cover letter will not be considered. This position will be filled in January 2010.

Please copy and paste the text of your CV into the e-mail, in addition to attaching the file. 
Due to the volume of applications we receive, we regret that only those selected for an interview will be contacted. 
This position is based in our San Francisco headquarters. If you
are not currently living in the San Francisco Bay Area, please make
that clear in your cover letter. 

"



From nbs at sonic.net  Wed Dec  9 16:21:21 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 16:21:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Any groups interested in an Amazon Web Services cloud
	computing talk in February?
Message-ID: <20091210002121.GE12663@sonic.net>


Jinesh Varia from Amazon will be speaking at the Linux Users' Group of Davis
(near Sacramento) on February 15th. [*]

He's flying down from Seattle, Washington, and will be in the area one
additional day.  He's asked if I know of any other technical groups
(PHP, Java, Python, .NET, web, etc.) in the greater SF Bay Area that
meet while he's in California, and would be interested in a cloud computing
talk.

Does anyone know of any that I can connect him to?  Thanks in advance!


[*] http://lugod.org/meeting/upcoming/#2010.02.15

-- 
-bill!
Sent from my computer



From jim at well.com  Wed Dec  9 16:53:16 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:53:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] linux discussion 6 to 8 PM at noisebridge
Message-ID: <1260406396.6685.37.camel@jim-laptop>


hiya, 
   the linux discussion meeting is scheduled 
for today from 6 to 8 PM at noisebridge, the 
turing classroom, third floor of 2169 mission 
street very near 18th street. 
   i, jim, will not be there tonight, but you 
can bring your stuff and have at. 
   note that it's cold, and you'll be glad to 
have a sweater, jacket, hat, gloves, scarf, 
and warm socks (pants and shirt assumed). 





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Dec 10 18:18:41 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:18:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
Message-ID: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I am supporting a 17 year-old girl who is doing her senior paper on FOSS and
the digital divide and education.  I want to be able to help her understand
the FOSS community affiliation with enterprises that support FOSS.  I would
like to set up a lunch meeting and campus visit to either IBM, HP, Google,
or other corporations that support FOSS.  If anyone on this list would like
to spend one hour with a high school student, please do let me know.  Thanks
either way for considering this request.
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From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 10 22:34:45 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:34:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Monday, December 14, 2009: wxPython
Message-ID: <1260513285.28537.112.camel@jim-laptop>



(NOTE: Because of Christmas, BayPIGgies meets in December 
on December 14: the second MONDAY of the month.) 


BayPIGgies meeting Monday, December 14, 2009: 

Tonight's talk is 
* wxPython 
by Tony Cappellini 

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, especially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: Comprehensions and Other Such Stuff. 

LOCATION 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://www.baypiggies.net/ 


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, any 
first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:40 PM ................
Newbie Nugget: Comprehensions and Other Such Stuff 
by Wesley Chun 


..... 7:40 PM to 8:30 PM (or so) ................
wxPython 
by Tony Cappellini 

wxPython is a GUI toolkit for the Python programming language. 
It allows Python programmers to create programs with a robust, 
highly functional graphical user interface, simply and easily. 
It is implemented as a Python extension module (native code) 
that wraps the popular wxWidgets cross platform GUI library, 
which is written in C++

My presentation is an introductory to using wxPython, GUI basics, 
IO redirection, GUI's vs cmd line programs, threading in a GUI 
app, and some helpful resources for wxPython,

Links: 
http://www.wxpython.org/ 



..... 8:30 PM to 9:20 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of issues, hiring, 
events, and other topics. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually 
on the announcements and other interests.





From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Thu Dec 10 23:17:37 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:17:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>

> hi,
>
> I am supporting a 17 year-old girl who is doing her senior paper on  
> FOSS and the digital divide and education.  I want to be able to  
> help her understand the FOSS community affiliation with enterprises  
> that support FOSS.  I would like to set up a lunch meeting and  
> campus visit to either IBM, HP, Google, or other corporations that  
> support FOSS.  If anyone on this list would like to spend one hour  
> with a high school student, please do let me know.  Thanks either  
> way for considering this request.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/


Christian,
How about a start-up that provides a FOSS solution which employs local  
Linux community members to teach and support, eliminates the burden  
teachers face in managing technology and does it for 1/3 the cost?

--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric
Computer Business Solutions
707-317-6710
mparic at compbizsolutions.com
www.compbizsolutions.com








From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 11:09:20 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:09:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
Message-ID: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>

the current issue of linux journal has a cover article on ham radio, and 
i'd like to get a copy. i've had to let my subscription lapse.

does anyone know where i can buy  lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want to 
go to the south bay.

stacy's?
that fancy coffee shop with all the magazines at the top of potrero hill?

thanks
m



From penguin at techbandit.com  Fri Dec 11 11:21:42 2009
From: penguin at techbandit.com (Romel Jacinto)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:21:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B229BC6.2010909@techbandit.com>

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:09, Michael Shiloh wrote:

...snip...
> does anyone know where i can buy  lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want to go to
> the south bay.
>
> stacy's?
...snip...

Stacey's Books closed last March.

You can try Fog City News at Market & First.
http://www.fogcitynews.com/

--
Romel



From jim at well.com  Fri Dec 11 11:39:16 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:39:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260560356.28537.183.camel@jim-laptop>


   on market near first is a news stand joint (not 
a kiosk) that sells linux mags (and high quality 
chocolate). borders (post and powell) also has 
linux mags, i believe. 
   i know someone who may have a copy; i'll ask 
her if she's willing to loan it or let me copy 
it (also, can you wait and get the article on 
line?). 



On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:09 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> the current issue of linux journal has a cover article on ham radio, and 
> i'd like to get a copy. i've had to let my subscription lapse.
> 
> does anyone know where i can buy  lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want to 
> go to the south bay.
> 
> stacy's?
> that fancy coffee shop with all the magazines at the top of potrero hill?
> 
> thanks
> m
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From ewalstad at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 12:40:47 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:40:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael,

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Michael Shiloh
<michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> does anyone know where i can buy ?lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want to go
> to the south bay.
The linux journal website sells individual issues in both print and
PDF versions.  The PDF version is quite good if you don't mind reading
it on-screen.

Eric.
-- 
Eric Walstad Associates, LLC
2856 Diamond Street
San Francisco, CA 94131
415-494-5405



From ewalstad at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 12:44:13 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:44:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20912111244n3d825691k213af26949a718e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
...
> Eric.
> --
--... ...--
KC6NTP

:)



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Fri Dec 11 14:31:04 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:31:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <375047.3056.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Has she read 'The Cathedral and the Bazar'? To my mind that would be the place to get her started.

http://catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/

ak


--- On Thu, 12/10/09, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
> To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 6:18 PM
> hi,
> 
> I am supporting a 17 year-old girl who is doing her senior
> paper on
> FOSS and the digital divide and education.? I want to be
> able to help
> her understand the FOSS community affiliation with
> enterprises that
> support FOSS.? I would like to set up a lunch meeting and
> campus visit to either IBM, HP, Google, or other
> corporations that support FOSS.? If anyone on this list
> would like to spend one hour with a high school student,
> please do let me know.? Thanks either way for considering
> this request. 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/


      




From jasonstone at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 17:55:56 2009
From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:55:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20912111244n3d825691k213af26949a718e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20912111244n3d825691k213af26949a718e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f11525bb0912111755m4659b974vfe57ab72a82f32f3@mail.gmail.com>

Borders Bookstore has Linux Journal.  The one in Stonestown sells it.
Im sure that one in the Westfield mall  and also the one off of Union
Square has it.

Do you know what the article is about?



On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
>> Eric.
>> --
> --... ...--
> KC6NTP
>
> :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>



From jasonstone at gmail.com  Fri Dec 11 22:22:26 2009
From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:22:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <f11525bb0912111755m4659b974vfe57ab72a82f32f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>
	<c436fcd20912111244n3d825691k213af26949a718e6@mail.gmail.com>
	<f11525bb0912111755m4659b974vfe57ab72a82f32f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f11525bb0912112222v11bdfe74je9aa1d7fa0a05c8e@mail.gmail.com>

:)  an answer to myself...  there are a few ham stories from this month's LJ...

# An Amateur Radio Survival Guide for Linux users   by Dan Smith
A getting-started guide for Linux users looking to venture into the
world of Amateur Radio.
# Xastir?Open-Source Client for the Automatic Packet Reporting System
by Curt E. Mills, Steve Stroh and Laura Shaffer Mills
Plotting Mars Rover locations on a detailed map, easily done with
Linux? You bet!
# Rolling Your Own with Digital Amateur Radio  by Gary L. Robinson
Amateur Radio and open source?a heavenly match.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue/189

--------------------------------------------------------------
An Amateur Radio Survival Guide for Linux Users
January 1st, 2010 by Dan Smith in

    * HOWTOs

An overview of common Amateur Radio activities with information about
how to participate using a Linux system and free software.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10616
--------------------------------------------------------------

Xastir?Open-Source Client for the Automatic Packet Reporting System
January 1st, 2010 by Curtis E. Mills, Steve Stroh and Laura Shaffer Mills in

    * HOWTOs

What do search and rescue, Amateur Radio and Linux have in common?

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10621
--------------------------------------------------------------


Rolling Your Own with Digital Amateur Radio
January 1st, 2010 by Gary L. Robinson in

    * Software

Fldigi to FLDigiROL: an Amateur Radio operator's digital journey to
open source.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10620
--------------------------------------------------------------





On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM, jason stone <jasonstone at gmail.com> wrote:
> Borders Bookstore has Linux Journal. ?The one in Stonestown sells it.
> Im sure that one in the Westfield mall ?and also the one off of Union
> Square has it.
>
> Do you know what the article is about?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>> Eric.
>>> --
>> --... ...--
>> KC6NTP
>>
>> :)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>
>



From bliss at sfo.com  Sat Dec 12 07:48:01 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:48:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <f11525bb0912112222v11bdfe74je9aa1d7fa0a05c8e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>	<c436fcd20912111240r4c73b35ek2ebcc82622b40a31@mail.gmail.com>	<c436fcd20912111244n3d825691k213af26949a718e6@mail.gmail.com>	<f11525bb0912111755m4659b974vfe57ab72a82f32f3@mail.gmail.com>
	<f11525bb0912112222v11bdfe74je9aa1d7fa0a05c8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B23BB31.90907@sfo.com>

jason stone wrote:
> :)  an answer to myself...  there are a few ham stories from this month's LJ...
>
> # An Amateur Radio Survival Guide for Linux users   by Dan Smith
> A getting-started guide for Linux users looking to venture into the
> world of Amateur Radio.
> # Xastir?Open-Source Client for the Automatic Packet Reporting System
> by Curt E. Mills, Steve Stroh and Laura Shaffer Mills
> Plotting Mars Rover locations on a detailed map, easily done with
> Linux? You bet!
> # Rolling Your Own with Digital Amateur Radio  by Gary L. Robinson
> Amateur Radio and open source?a heavenly match.
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue/189
>   

    #189 should be out shortly; the last available was #188.
       later
       Bobbie Sellers
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> An Amateur Radio Survival Guide for Linux Users
> January 1st, 2010 by Dan Smith in
>
>     * HOWTOs
>
> An overview of common Amateur Radio activities with information about
> how to participate using a Linux system and free software.
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10616
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Xastir?Open-Source Client for the Automatic Packet Reporting System
> January 1st, 2010 by Curtis E. Mills, Steve Stroh and Laura Shaffer Mills in
>
>     * HOWTOs
>
> What do search and rescue, Amateur Radio and Linux have in common?
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10621
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Rolling Your Own with Digital Amateur Radio
> January 1st, 2010 by Gary L. Robinson in
>
>     * Software
>
> Fldigi to FLDigiROL: an Amateur Radio operator's digital journey to
> open source.
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10620
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM, jason stone <jasonstone at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Borders Bookstore has Linux Journal.  The one in Stonestown sells it.
>> Im sure that one in the Westfield mall  and also the one off of Union
>> Square has it.
>>
>> Do you know what the article is about?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>       
>>>> Eric.
>>>> --
>>>>         
>>> --... ...--
>>> KC6NTP
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>>>
>>>       
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>
>   





From bliss at sfo.com  Sat Dec 12 09:18:20 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:18:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <1260560356.28537.183.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
	<1260560356.28537.183.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4B23D05C.2010700@sfo.com>

jim wrote:
>    on market near first is a news stand joint (not 
> a kiosk) that sells linux mags (and high quality 
> chocolate). borders (post and powell) also has 
> linux mags, i believe. 
>    i know someone who may have a copy; i'll ask 
> her if she's willing to loan it or let me copy 
> it (also, can you wait and get the article on 
> line?). 
>   
    Yes that is Fog City News on the South side of Market
between Fremont and Folsom.  I get Linux Pro and the
Linux Journal there each month.
	
	And I go there several times a week when I expect
an issue of other will be out shortly.

	I will let you copy the relevant parts or get you
a copy if you will repay the modest sum, or merely
let  you borrow it indefinitely until you have absorbed
or implemented the parts you are interested in.

	This was sent originally to Jim by my lack of
attention to the detail of reply all.

>
>
> On Fri, 2009-12-11 at 11:09 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
>   
>> the current issue of linux journal has a cover article on ham radio, and 
>> i'd like to get a copy. i've had to let my subscription lapse.
>>
>> does anyone know where i can buy  lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want to 
>> go to the south bay.
>>
>> stacy's?
>> that fancy coffee shop with all the magazines at the top of potrero hill?
>>
>> thanks
>> m
>>
>>     
    later
    Bobbie Sellers




From michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 18:27:15 2009
From: michaelshiloh1010 at gmail.com (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:27:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>



Michael Paric wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> I am supporting a 17 year-old girl who is doing her senior paper on 
>> FOSS and the digital divide and education.  I want to be able to help 
>> her understand the FOSS community affiliation with enterprises that 
>> support FOSS.  I would like to set up a lunch meeting and campus visit 
>> to either IBM, HP, Google, or other corporations that support FOSS.  
>> If anyone on this list would like to spend one hour with a high school 
>> student, please do let me know.  Thanks either way for considering 
>> this request.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 
> Christian,
> How about a start-up that provides a FOSS solution which employs local 
> Linux community members to teach and support, eliminates the burden 
> teachers face in managing technology and does it for 1/3 the cost?
> 

This sounds like a great idea. I'm surprised no one has tried this yet. 
Christian? If anyone has tried this I expect you would hear about it.

To what extent is this already fulfilled by volunteer groups?

M



From jim at well.com  Sat Dec 12 18:57:37 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:57:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
	<4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260673057.28537.248.camel@jim-laptop>



interesting so far: a solution to what? 


On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 18:27 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> 
> Michael Paric wrote:
> >> hi,
> >>
> >> I am supporting a 17 year-old girl who is doing her senior paper on 
> >> FOSS and the digital divide and education.  I want to be able to help 
> >> her understand the FOSS community affiliation with enterprises that 
> >> support FOSS.  I would like to set up a lunch meeting and campus visit 
> >> to either IBM, HP, Google, or other corporations that support FOSS.  
> >> If anyone on this list would like to spend one hour with a high school 
> >> student, please do let me know.  Thanks either way for considering 
> >> this request.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sf-lug mailing list
> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > 
> > 
> > Christian,
> > How about a start-up that provides a FOSS solution which employs local 
> > Linux community members to teach and support, eliminates the burden 
> > teachers face in managing technology and does it for 1/3 the cost?
> > 
> 
> This sounds like a great idea. I'm surprised no one has tried this yet. 
> Christian? If anyone has tried this I expect you would hear about it.
> 
> To what extent is this already fulfilled by volunteer groups?
> 
> M
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Dec 12 19:21:42 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:21:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
	<4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040912121921p17e70aafkf3dd7816034b8e40@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Michael Shiloh
>
> Christian,
>> How about a start-up that provides a FOSS solution which employs local
>> Linux community members to teach and support, eliminates the burden teachers
>> face in managing technology and does it for 1/3 the cost?
>>
>>
> This sounds like a great idea. I'm surprised no one has tried this yet.
> Christian? If anyone has tried this I expect you would hear about it.
>
> To what extent is this already fulfilled by volunteer groups?
>

Partimus is trying to do this very thing -- fundraise and pay people to do
what it is that we (Partimus) have been doing since 2004 -- deploy Linux
systems in schools.

We are now up to four schools, three of which we have been active in
establishing, one of which we are just loosely supporting (Ascend school in
Oakland).

The problem is money.  Linux has not yet achieved widespread brand
recognition, and so there is little _perceived_ in Linux systems until those
systems are demonstrated.  The problem also is the lack of a paid, dedicated
salesforce to push Linux to schools and other institutions.

But now, we have Linux systems in three schools in San Francisco, and one in
Oakland.  We are always in need of volunteers.  In particular, we now need
someone to help build a back-up server for the school at Turk & Pierce; and
we also need someone to fix some fairly nasty printer problems at that same
school.
-------------- next part --------------
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From jim at well.com  Sun Dec 13 09:13:26 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 09:13:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040912121921p17e70aafkf3dd7816034b8e40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
	<4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
	<4b5781040912121921p17e70aafkf3dd7816034b8e40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1260724406.28537.296.camel@jim-laptop>



   there's a possibility that a regular report on 
the developments of your projects would at some 
point trigger a greater level of interest and 
(hopefully) motivation on the part of readers to 
participate. 
   seems to me regularity in itself will help, 
maybe a weekly summary of accomplishments along 
with a boilerplate plea for help along with a 
description of tasks and possible times to help. 

   consider mentioning the regular wednesday 
evening (6 to 8 or so) linux discussion meeting 
at noisebridge (2169 mission near 18th street), 
which was begun with your needs in mind. 
   so far there have been a few people coming, 
some with laptops that they tear open and try 
to fix, others with lots of expertise and a 
willingness to help out. 
   i'm hopeful that over the next few months 
this wednesday evening meeting will develop 
into something interesting and lively. 
jim 



On Sat, 2009-12-12 at 19:21 -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> hi, 
> 
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Michael Shiloh 
>                 Christian,
>                 How about a start-up that provides a FOSS solution
>                 which employs local Linux community members to teach
>                 and support, eliminates the burden teachers face in
>                 managing technology and does it for 1/3 the cost?
>                 
>         
>         
>         This sounds like a great idea. I'm surprised no one has tried
>         this yet. Christian? If anyone has tried this I expect you
>         would hear about it.
>         
>         To what extent is this already fulfilled by volunteer groups?
> 
> 
> Partimus is trying to do this very thing -- fundraise and pay people
> to do what it is that we (Partimus) have been doing since 2004 --
> deploy Linux systems in schools.
> 
> We are now up to four schools, three of which we have been active in
> establishing, one of which we are just loosely supporting (Ascend
> school in Oakland). 
> 
> The problem is money.  Linux has not yet achieved widespread brand
> recognition, and so there is little _perceived_ in Linux systems until
> those systems are demonstrated.  The problem also is the lack of a
> paid, dedicated salesforce to push Linux to schools and other
> institutions.  
> 
> But now, we have Linux systems in three schools in San Francisco, and
> one in Oakland.  We are always in need of volunteers.  In particular,
> we now need someone to help build a back-up server for the school at
> Turk & Pierce; and we also need someone to fix some fairly nasty
> printer problems at that same school.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Dec 13 13:52:36 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 13:52:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] support for a high school student
In-Reply-To: <1260724406.28537.296.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <4b5781040912101818y30a7437fo34a2cd9b4ae455e0@mail.gmail.com>
	<AD9247C8-A0D0-4AC4-B4FB-78C674FED05F@compbizsolutions.com>
	<4B245103.7020805@gmail.com>
	<4b5781040912121921p17e70aafkf3dd7816034b8e40@mail.gmail.com>
	<1260724406.28537.296.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4b5781040912131352n248387a4m9453d3c4573e304e@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sun, Dec 13, 2009 at 9:13 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   there's a possibility that a regular report on
> the developments of your projects would at some
> point trigger a greater level of interest and
> (hopefully) motivation on the part of readers to
> participate.
>

I have been reluctant to post too much to the Internet, because I didn't
want to bring too much attention to these projects, for a couple different
reasons, some of which might be foolish, others more reasonable.  First, I
was concerned that a MIcrosoft solutions provider might pick up on the post,
and make a sales call on the schools.  This might seem non-sense at first,
but it actually happened at one of the schools.  We lost the Linux lab at
one school, and had to disperse the Linux machines into classrooms.  It was
a setback.  It might not have happened because of a posting to this list,
but until we get funding and can fight back, I prefer to keep a low-profile,
so as to minimize competition from Microsoft solutions providers.

The second reason is that drawing attention to a school can be a mixed
blessing.  Parents and administrators can over-react to lots of attention
being drawn to a school.  I would rather not have too many phone calls
coming to a school because of the Linux initiatives there.

The third reason is that one of the schools has a board which must approve
me blogging about the school.  They are not going to have their next board
meeting until January, and I have not been able to get on the agenda for a
board meeting, due to conflicts between my schedule and the board's
schedule.

The fourth reason is my concern about over-exposure.  If I were to post here
too regularly with requests for help, people might start tuning me out.


>   consider mentioning the regular wednesday
> evening (6 to 8 or so) linux discussion meeting
> at noisebridge (2169 mission near 18th street),
> which was begun with your needs in mind.
>

Yes, and thanks for that.
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From a10cuba at hotmail.com  Sun Dec 13 18:19:32 2009
From: a10cuba at hotmail.com (Terry Sanford)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:19:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8
Message-ID: <BAY121-DS7A91E4344C6506173D0E9BA890@phx.gbl>

does any one need a compaq nc6000 lcd screen or keyboard I don't need this laptop as its not powering up any more . the fan over the cpu is good aswell as the speakers
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From antfaber at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 14 13:59:48 2009
From: antfaber at yahoo.com (Anthony Faber)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:59:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Any book suggeswtions for someone who wants to learn how
	to install & maintain Linux?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1260648002.4741.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <509605.14872.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I started out in the DOS days, and can usually muddle through stuff on Windows machines, but I want to move to Linux and want to read a few books so I know what I'm getting into and what to look for when various things go wrong.

Anthony Faber




      
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Mon Dec 14 14:12:16 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 14 Dec 2009 17:12:16 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Any book suggeswtions for someone who wants to learn
 howto install & maintain Linux?
Message-ID: <1682362688.1260828789743.JavaMail.cfservice@webserver50>


Hey Anthony,

 

Theres plenty of books out there, I have bought my fair share of books on Ubuntu and Suse...etc But for me, the easiest way to start learning is to is to just start installing it on an extra machine, then play around with it, do dual boots, try different distros, google ?s, read forums, follow the mailing lists...etc All the books in the world cant compare to just diving in and doing it. 

 

Unless you are really looking at getting into some deep knowledge on a specific subject, IE Security, Linux Kernel hacking...etc Otherwise just start having fun. Eventually you will figure out where you need some more indepth understanding and you can go get a book on that subject. 

 

I bet you'll find installation to be pretty simple and I wouldnt think youd need a book for that. 



Blake Haggerty
 
Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com

 



 

-----Original Message-----
From:Anthony Faber antfaber at yahoo.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
Sent: Dec 14, 2009 05:00:00 PM
Subject: [sf-lug] Any book suggeswtions for someone who wants to learn howto install & maintain Linux?







I started out in the DOS days, and can usually muddle through stuff on Windows machines, but I want to move to Linux and want to read a few books so I know what I'm getting into and what to look for when various things go wrong.


Anthony Faber



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From jim at well.com  Mon Dec 14 14:22:23 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:22:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Any book suggeswtions for someone who wants to
	learn	how to install & maintain Linux?
In-Reply-To: <509605.14872.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <509605.14872.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1260829343.28537.351.camel@jim-laptop>



   the differences between the GUI presented 
by windows, mac, linux... for everyday user 
tasks is so nearly the same that there's no 
significant adjustment for those who know a 
bit about the underlying software, which i'm 
guessing you clearly do. 
   the common linux distros are pretty much 
foolproof in their installation, including 
giving you a multi-boot system. be warned in 
the case of laptops and their wifi capabilities: 
use a "live cd" before you install. for that 
matter use a live cd in general. if you come 
to a meeting (monday 20091221 sf-lug meets at 
the cafe enchante on geary at 26th from 6 PM 
to 8 PM or so), someone is likely to have a 
"live cd" to give you: i will if you give me 
advance notice so i remember. 
   don't bother with books until after you've 
got some way to play with linux, really: if 
you don't allow yourself to get linux until 
after you've read a bit, you're likely never 
to get linux--you'll have died of boredom first. 
jim 



On Mon, 2009-12-14 at 13:59 -0800, Anthony Faber wrote:
> I started out in the DOS days, and can usually muddle through stuff on
> Windows machines, but I want to move to Linux and want to read a few
> books so I know what I'm getting into and what to look for when
> various things go wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> Anthony Faber
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/




From jim at well.com  Mon Dec 14 16:48:54 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:48:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ]Job Posting] Virtualization Architect (Linux),
	San Francisco, 135K
Message-ID: <1260838134.28537.403.camel@jim-laptop>



Virtualization Architect position in San Francisco, CA (Downtown). 
The compensation is DOE (Fair market rate--minimum $135K + 
commensurate with experience. 

The primary responsibilities will be the designing & architecture 
ofthe server virtualization platform. Strong coding skills in C/C++ 
and Python and Kernel-level development

Research, develop, and support the operation of a revolutionary cloud
computing service enabled by hypervisor technologies. Architect large
scale virtualization control systems and build tools to ensure uptime 
and reliability through comprehensive monitoring and implementation of
self-healing utilities. Optimize performance of virtual servers
through experimentation and research. Drive and enable a culture of
innovation through the use of automation and new technologies. Think
strategically to help make decisions to meet company objectives.

This ?start-up? environment is seeking a team player who has a
combination technical know-how, vision, and effective communication
skills. The benefits include 100% of EE medical and offers 15 days of
PTO/10 company holidays. The candidate will apply via our home page
(www.gogrid.com) and scroll down to our careers section/Virtualization
Architect.

Thank you,
LaMar Vinson
Corporate Recruiter
ServePath, LLC. 
2 Harrison, Suite 200|San Francisco, CA|94105 D 415.869.6916 |F
415.520.0395

www.servepath.com | Managed dedicated hosting www.gogrid.com |
Scalable load-balanced cloud server hosting/ Please consider the
environment before printing this email.





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Dec 14 21:38:50 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:38:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Any book suggeswtions for someone who wants to
	learn	how to install & maintain Linux?
In-Reply-To: <509605.14872.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.0.1260648002.4741.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<509605.14872.qm@web38407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091215053850.GX1600@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Anthony Faber (antfaber at yahoo.com):

> I started out in the DOS days, and can usually muddle through stuff on
> Windows machines, but I want to move to Linux and want to read a few
> books so I know what I'm getting into and what to look for when
> various things go wrong.

Anthony, I salute your spirit.

One old-time classic is Matt Welsh's _Running Linux_, now bloated to 976
pages in O'Reilly's fifth edition of that book.  It used to be such 
a spare and easily read thing, too.
http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007607

Another classic, preferred by many all along, is Mark Sobell's _A
Practical Guide to Linux_.  Mark is (last I checked) on this mailing
list.  http://www.sobell.com/  Notice he also has distro-specific 
variant titles for Ubuntu and Fedora/RHEL[/CentOS].

You might want _Linux in a Nutshell_ (O'Reilly, obviously), as a pure
reference volume, as opposed to tutorial.

Anything special you're looking for?

I concur with (I think it was...) Jim's comment that you should just
dive in, though.





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Dec 15 16:19:23 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 16:19:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG (& SF-LUG) (Linux) login accounts
Message-ID: <20091215161923.13185hu125iyhjks@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG (& SF-LUG) (Linux) login accounts

Have a peek here:
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-admin-balug.org/2009-December/000681.html




From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec 16 00:30:15 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:30:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Dec 20 Global Linux & All Free SW HW Culture meeting -
	BerkeleyTIP
Message-ID: <1260952215.10379.1350355211@webmail.messagingengine.com>

A great December Solstice to you & yours. :)

JOIN the Global All Free SW, HW, Culture meeting via VOIP
Dec 20 Sunday, 12N-3PM (Pacific = UTC-8) = 3P-6P Eastern = 8P-11P UTC
[Jan 2009 meetings: 2nd, 17th - mark your calendar]
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule


==  WATCH some VIDEOS:
Mark Shuttleworth Interview - 10.04 Lucid Larynx
Learning from Code History , Andreas Zeller
Why does my program fail? Your version history might have the answer.
Audio Hardware Enablement Session,  UbuntuDevelopersSummit in Dallas
Distributed Development,  UDS in Dallas
Splunk,  Jeremy Thurgood  CLUG
Upstart,  Stefano Rivera  CLUG
Interfacing with the real world,  Mark Ter Morshuizen, Marc Welz CLUG
Accelerating Graphics;  Camp KDE 2009
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos


== Join the MAILING LIST & tell us which videos you will watch & why:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


==  JOIN the meeting via IRC & VOIP:
Come discuss any & everything, & work on your individual or group
projects.

HOT TOPICS: Ub or KUb 9.10?, Ubuntu 10.04 plans, Android, Python3000 in
2010?

Start on the #berkeleytip irc.freenode.net channel, & we'll help you get
your VOIP system up & working.  For VOIP SW, & connection info, see:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance

Berkeley meeting LOCATION:  Watch the website & mail list for latest
details,  perhaps at the Berkeley Public Library, or a cafe, due to Free
Speech Cafe closed for winter break.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


==  OPPORTUNITIES to VOLUNTEER or learn new JOB SKILLS for 2010:
Help set up our: Mailing list, FreeSwitch VOIP server, website
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/opportunities
Inquire & discuss at the meeting.


==  For Forwarding - You are invited to forward this announcement
wherever it would be appreciated.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Dec 16 17:11:36 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:11:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] reminder, Noisebridge meeting tonight
Message-ID: <4b5781040912161711x4e03b26ai6f493c536728c6a3@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

This is just a reminder that there will be an SF-LUG meeting tonight at
Noisebridge at 2169 Mission Street, between 17th and 18th Street.  The
meeting will go from 6 pm to 8 pm.
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From jim at well.com  Sat Dec 19 09:05:11 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:05:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [vox] Linux toys
Message-ID: <1261242311.29737.3.camel@jim-laptop>



(as seen on lugod's mailing list: ) 


OUCH! I was researching an answer for someone and hit this page. WARNING: 
give your credit cards to your significant other before visiting this 
site.

http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/The-Linux-Devices-Showcase/

I thought I was fairly up on what was out there but some of these are 
COOL! I particularly am thrilled to see the sleeve wearable computer, and 
the eye goggles that make it seem as if you are sitting right in front of 
a really big screen. *drool*






From woodbrian77 at gmail.com  Sat Dec 19 19:36:06 2009
From: woodbrian77 at gmail.com (Brian Wood)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:36:06 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] cat-like command
In-Reply-To: <ddf6f4ca0912191934p46dd0836yc92947910802a770@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ddf6f4ca0912191934p46dd0836yc92947910802a770@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ddf6f4ca0912191936u60a2a9dbn586fc58426b9d2f7@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a command something like cat that will copy a
file into the copy/paste buffer, so I can paste the contents
somewhere after running the command?

Also I'd like to find someone willing to give me an account
on a big-endian machine.  I'm willing to give that person
investments in Ebenezer Enterprises in exchange.

TIA.

-- 
Brian Wood
Ebenezer Enterprises
http://www.webEbenezer.net
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From ghayoun at gmail.com  Sun Dec 20 02:49:08 2009
From: ghayoun at gmail.com (Gautier HAYOUN)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:49:08 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] cat-like command
In-Reply-To: <ddf6f4ca0912191936u60a2a9dbn586fc58426b9d2f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ddf6f4ca0912191934p46dd0836yc92947910802a770@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ddf6f4ca0912191936u60a2a9dbn586fc58426b9d2f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <880de7000912200249t31d36d98m6c3bff279f588c96@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Brian,

I don't have an account on a big-endian but the command you are
looking for is xclip.
I installed it with `sudo apt-get install xclip` on my ubuntu 9.10.

to copy to the primary clipboard (paste with middle click) use it like this :
    echo "hello" | xclip

or to copy to the the manual copy clipboard (so you can paste with Ctrl-v) use :
    echo "hello" | xclip -sel clip

Best,
Gautier.

On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 3:36 AM, Brian Wood <woodbrian77 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is there a command something like cat that will copy a
> file into the copy/paste buffer, so I can paste the contents
> somewhere after running the command?
>
> Also I'd like to find someone willing to give me an account
> on a big-endian machine.? I'm willing to give that person
> investments in Ebenezer Enterprises in exchange.
>
> TIA.
>
> --
> Brian Wood
> Ebenezer Enterprises
> http://www.webEbenezer.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
>



From jim at well.com  Mon Dec 21 14:01:30 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:01:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets tonight at cafe enchante in SF on geary at
	26th from	6 to 8 PM or so
Message-ID: <1261432890.6615.9.camel@jim-laptop>


   sf-lug meets tonight from 6 PM to 8 PM (or so) at the 
Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Blvd in San Francisco. 

   Tonight, thanks to Pearson Publications, we've got two 
really good books to share/give away...: 
* Practical Guide to Linux Commands, Editors, Shell Programming 
  by mark sobell 
* Practical Virtualization Solutions 
  by Kenneth Hess and Amy Newman 






From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Dec 21 14:58:20 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:58:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets tonight at cafe enchante in SF on geary
	at 26th from 6 to 8 PM or so
In-Reply-To: <1261432890.6615.9.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1261432890.6615.9.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4b5781040912211458q46c9e501refde8dfb9cfd3e9a@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 2:01 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   sf-lug meets tonight from 6 PM to 8 PM (or so) at the
> Cafe Enchante on Geary at 26th Blvd in San Francisco.
>
>   Tonight, thanks to Pearson Publications, we've got two
> really good books to share/give away...:
> * Practical Guide to Linux Commands, Editors, Shell Programming
>  by mark sobell
>

I would be interested in the Sobell book if no one else wants it.

c u tonight
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From mparic at compbizsolutions.com  Mon Dec 21 19:08:14 2009
From: mparic at compbizsolutions.com (Michael Paric)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:08:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DVI->VGA Adapters Needed
Message-ID: <374FEA41-1618-4AC1-95DA-C9B3D1676EEB@compbizsolutions.com>

One of the Partimus-sponsored schools in San Francisco acquired a  
number of donated Dell desktops, however half of them have DVI-only  
monitor connections. Instead of trying to acquire and replace the  
graphics cards (some are built into the motherboard), I suggested we  
see if we can round up some Male DVI-I to Female VGA adapters like the  
ones typically included in aftermarket graphics cards. If you have  
some, please bring them to the next Berkeley LUG meeting (12/27) and  
I'll get them to Christian. I have four and we need about 20. Thanks  
everyone; Happy Holidays!

--------------------------------------------------------
Michael Paric
mparic at compbizsolutions.com








From bliss at sfo.com  Wed Dec 23 11:53:40 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:53:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] where to buy linux journal in sf or east bay?
In-Reply-To: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
References: <4B2298E0.4060107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B327544.9030601@sfo.com>

Michael Shiloh wrote:
> the current issue of linux journal has a cover article on ham radio, 
> and i'd like to get a copy. i've had to let my subscription lapse.
>
> does anyone know where i can buy  lj in sf or berkeley? i don't want 
> to go to the south bay.
>
> stacy's?
> that fancy coffee shop with all the magazines at the top of potrero hill?
>
> thanks
> m
>
    If you are still interested the Linux Journal is at the Fog City 
News with all
the amateur radio articles.  Bought my copy this AM and will be bringing it
to the next SF-LUG meeting at Cafe Enchante on January 3, 2009.

    later
    bliss



From geraldca at sbcglobal.net  Thu Dec 24 12:35:14 2009
From: geraldca at sbcglobal.net (Gerald)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:35:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] For sale: Dell Inspiron 1525n laptop Ubuntu 9.10 OS with
	activated windows 7 Home Premium running within VirtualBox
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAESkoPv/hE9HrA/EDw7visPCgAAAEAAAAFHzXsKe2SZPj72JFBtwUzgBAAAAAA==@sbcglobal.net>

I am not using it anymore. It is in excellent condition.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/sys/1518818356.html

Gerald
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From john_re at fastmail.us  Mon Dec 28 01:16:27 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:16:27 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Interest in VOIP & BerkeleyTIP-Global mtg at SFLUG? Jan 3
	Sunday?
Message-ID: <1261991787.31033.1351952523@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Friends, Francescoians, SFLUGgers

Hi SFLUGgers, & Jim, :)

Anyone there interested in learning about VOIP, &/or working on trying to join the global Linux via VOIP meeting, BerkeleyTIP-Global?
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip

=====
San Francisco is the city that is # 1 for hits on the BerkeleyTIP website - so someone(s) over there is interested in BTIP. :)


January being low student count over here, I was thinking I'd investigate moving the meeting to SanFran for once or twice this month.

SFLUG being the most active group for "get together meetings", ie without a speaker,  which is BTIPs basic format, I thought I'd ask yous all to see if anyone there would be interested in having me come by & bring the BTIP local & global meeting to one of your regularly scheduled weekend meetings (this Sunday Jan 3 is the next).

I could give a Howto get your VOIP working & join the global GNU(Linux), & All Free SW HW & Culture community global meetings.  Once you've got your hw & sw working, it should be easier for anyone to join the global meetings, from home or from a local meeting.

Interested persons should bring a laptop, voip headset, & way to get connected to the internet (ex, wifi).

Does your Sunday meeting location have inet access? wifi?  Is it voip capable (about 6KB/s, 60Kb/s per voip connection)?


I'm also gonna send an invitation like this to NoiseBridge & BALUG later, when I can make time to send it,  so those might be another chance for SFians to learn & try VOIP & BTIP. Perhaps on one of the Tues or Wed evening times for those groups.

==
Website:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home
VOIP info:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance
Mailing list:
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

==
Anyone in SFLUG interested in working on VOIP & joining BTIP this Sun, Jan 3, aprox 11A-3PM?



From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec 30 22:16:38 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:16:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SFLUG Meeting Jan 3 Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante
Message-ID: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Is the meeting on for Sunday?  Anyone have an idea how manySF_Luggers might be there?

How's the wifi there?

Didn't get any replies to my question to this list a couple days ago about anyone's interest in joining the global Linux meeting from there.  Asking once again - do _you_ have any interest?

http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-enchante-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=date_desc



From jstrazza at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 30 22:25:08 2009
From: jstrazza at yahoo.com (John F. Strazzarino)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:25:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
Message-ID: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a three line text file
?
?
This is a test
blank line
123456
?
?
The last line of the file is a number and I need just that number....
?
I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep 
?
Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
\\
Thanks
?
John
?


      
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From jim at well.com  Wed Dec 30 22:52:50 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:52:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SFLUG Meeting Jan 3 Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante
In-Reply-To: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>



   yes (and thanks for asking), the meeting's on 
for sunday, january 2 2010, at the cafe enchante 
on geary blvd at 26th avenue, from 11 AM to 1 PM 
or so. 
   who comes and how many varies throughout the 
year. the usual is from 6 to 10, sometimes a few 
more, rarely less. there are a few regulars and 
a few irregulars, occasionally a newbie or two 
or some out-of-towners. 




On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:16 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
> Is the meeting on for Sunday?  Anyone have an idea how manySF_Luggers might be there?
> 
> How's the wifi there?
> 
> Didn't get any replies to my question to this list a couple days ago about anyone's interest in joining the global Linux meeting from there.  Asking once again - do _you_ have any interest?
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
> 
> 
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-enchante-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=date_desc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Dec 30 22:57:07 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:57:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20091231065707.GK5824@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting John F. Strazzarino (jstrazza at yahoo.com):

> I have a three line text file
> 
> 
> This is a test
> blank line
> 123456
> 
>
> The last line of the file is a number and I need just that number....

tail -n 1 [filename]

If there's a blank line at the end of the file, though, you'll end up
getting that.

Returning the last _non-blank_ line might be a little more difficult.  ;->




From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Dec 30 22:58:56 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:58:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] WIFI,
 global Linux VOIP meeting BerkeleyTIP - Re: SFLUG Meeting Jan 3
 Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante
In-Reply-To: <1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1262242736.11441.1352363377@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:52:50 -0800, "jim":) <jim at well.com> said:
>    yes (and thanks for asking), the meeting's on 
> for sunday, january 2 2010, at the cafe enchante 
> on geary blvd at 26th avenue, from 11 AM to 1 PM 
> or so. 

Great. Thanks :)  &, Should that be the _3rd_, not "2nd", as you mentioned? ;)

& also:

> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:16 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
> > How's the wifi there?


> > Didn't get any replies to my question to this list a couple days ago about anyone's interest in joining the global Linux meeting from there.  Asking once again - do _you_ have any interest?
> > 
> > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-enchante-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=date_desc



From jim at well.com  Wed Dec 30 23:02:37 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:02:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1262242957.9805.81.camel@jim-laptop>


   specifically, given your claims, just use the 
tail -1 
command, which will return the last line in the 
file, in this case the one with the number. 

   more generally, if you know the file is regular 
(and the nature of the regularity), you can 
probably set up a command or little shell script 
to get what you want. if your file is 21 lines in 
the form of string, blank, numbers, you could try 
head -3 | tail -1 
as a base and maybe put something like it in the 
body of a for loop, kind of like 

for i in 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 
do 
head -$i | tail -1 >> numbers 
done 

   even more generally, use grep with some regular 
expression (depending on the nature of the number 
the file contains and whether it's on a line by 
itself or whatever..., left as an exercise for the 
readers, a few of whom will, no doubt, provide 
examples with some optional derision pointed my way. 




On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:25 -0800, John F. Strazzarino wrote:
> I have a three line text file
>  
>  
> This is a test
> blank line
> 123456
>  
>  
> The last line of the file is a number and I need just that number....
>  
> I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep 
>  
> Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
> \\
> Thanks
>  
> John
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/




From jim at well.com  Wed Dec 30 23:08:51 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:08:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] WIFI,
	global Linux VOIP meeting BerkeleyTIP - Re:	SFLUG Meeting Jan 3
	Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante
In-Reply-To: <1262242736.11441.1352363377@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>
	<1262242736.11441.1352363377@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1262243331.9805.87.camel@jim-laptop>


right, sunday 20100103 from 11 AM to 1 PM (or so). 
---------------------^ 

oh, yeah: the wifi works, though it's got a password. 

sorry, been distracted: what's the global linux thing 
about? a link or two will be good. 



On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:58 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:52:50 -0800, "jim":) <jim at well.com> said:
> >    yes (and thanks for asking), the meeting's on 
> > for sunday, january 2 2010, at the cafe enchante 
> > on geary blvd at 26th avenue, from 11 AM to 1 PM 
> > or so. 
> 
> Great. Thanks :)  &, Should that be the _3rd_, not "2nd", as you mentioned? ;)
> 
> & also:
> 
> > On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:16 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
> > > How's the wifi there?
> 
> 
> > > Didn't get any replies to my question to this list a couple days ago 
> about anyone's interest in joining the global Linux meeting from there.  
> Asking once again - do _you_ have any interest?
> > > 
> > > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/
> > > 
> > > 
> > > http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-enchante-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=date_desc
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Dec 30 23:57:23 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:57:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] WIFI,
	global Linux VOIP meeting BerkeleyTIP - Re:	SFLUG Meeting Jan 3
	Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante
In-Reply-To: <1262243331.9805.87.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>
	<1262242736.11441.1352363377@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262243331.9805.87.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091231075723.GN5824@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> sorry, been distracted: what's the global linux thing 
> about? a link or two will be good. 

"giovanni_re <john_re at fastmail.us>" appears to be the latest handle of
John Regan of Berkeley (or thereabouts), who's genuis loci of
"BerkeleyTIP" and "GlobalTIP".

When he says "joining the global Linux meeting", he means someone at
Cafe Enchante donating the use of his or her cellular or other bandwidth
to stream IRC and VOIP (and Ekiga and whatever) to/from elsewhere.




From john_re at fastmail.us  Thu Dec 31 01:32:22 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:32:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Global Linux meeting via VOIP Jan 3 Sunday,
 @ loc& time of SFLUG - Re:  WIFI, global Linux VOIP meeting BerkeleyTIP ...
In-Reply-To: <1262243331.9805.87.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1262240198.6050.1352360237@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262242370.9805.70.camel@jim-laptop>
	<1262242736.11441.1352363377@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<1262243331.9805.87.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1262251942.7933.1352366783@webmail.messagingengine.com>

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 23:08:51 -0800, "jim" <jim at well.com> said:
> 
> right, Sunday 20100103 from 11 AM to 1 PM (or so). 
> ---------------------^ 
> 
> oh, yeah: the wifi works, though it's got a password. 

Note that Yelp indicates free wifi, recent posters there say free wifi, one old 4/20/2009 post says  "the non-free wifi (a neg rep, ITTET*)".

> 
> sorry, been distracted: what's the global linux thing 
> about? a link or two will be good.  

I love ya, man.  ;)  :)
> > > > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


=====  BTIP Global Linux meeting Jan 3 @ location & simult w/ SFLUG
Quick Note to SFLUGers, & everyone:

You are invited to attend the Global GNU(Linux) & All Free Software, Free Hardware & Free Culture meeting, via in person & globally via VOIP, simultaneous with, & at the location of, the Sunday January 3rd SFLUG meeting, [ BTIP meeting time 12N-3PM ] at the scheduled location of the SFLUG meeting, the 
Cafe Enchante
Neighborhood: Outer Richmond
6157 Geary Blvd.
(between 25th Ave & 26th Ave)
San Francisco, CA 94121
(415) 251-9136
http://www.yelp.com/biz/cafe-enchante-san-francisco?rpp=40&sort_by=date_desc

==
As a practical matter, all this means is that if you wish, you are invited to join me, & anyone else who so wishes at the cafe, & anyone else who is online (irc or VOIP), for any part of the Global BerkeleyTIP meeting.  See the (usually not followed) meeting hourly agenda on the btip website:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/schedule

The main aspect of the BTIP meeting is to join with everyone else online, the global Linux community, primarily via VOIP.  So, if you're interested, bring some capability to get on VOIP, or IRC, if you wish: a laptop with inet access from the cafe, plus a voip headset, plus relevant VOIP client sw, are the primary requisites.  Sometimes we also have the ability for people to join by dialing in from a regular (or cell) phone to a US phone #.

The purposes of the BTIP global meeting are much like any LUG: Educational, Productive & Social.

I/we BTIPers will do our best to assist you with any hw or sw configuration & debug to enable you to get connected & join the meeting.

& you can join & chat with Linux people from all over the world.  :)

Just like any regular LUG activities, I/we all will just be sitting there working to get online, & conversing online & locally.  You are welcome to join with us, or not, as you wish.  :)

You are invited to join the BTIPGlobal, & other mailing lists & say hi, tell us about your interests, or ask any relevant, including howto & help, questions.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal

If you take the time to determine how to get your voip headset working before you come to the meeting, you'll be a step ahead.  :)

==
I arrange the BTIP global meetings in my nonexistent "free" time, in part as a service to & thanks to the Free SW HW & Culture communities.  We all (BTIPers) do it on a "best efforts, as time permits, achieve what we can, do some good, & have some fun" basis.

Feel free to ask me any relevant questions on this, or the BTIP lists.

I'll follow this message with a short announcement I sent to the BTIP list about the Jan 3 BTIP meeting in San Francisco. And, then with the regular BTIP announcement, hopefully within a day.

Oh, the regular announcement also lists the talk videos for the meeting, that people are encouraged to download & watch before the meeting, so we can discuss them at the meeting.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos

==  Some links:
Details about VOIP, howto, what to bring, etc:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance




> On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:58 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
...
> > > On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:16 -0800, giovanni_re wrote:
> > > > How's the wifi there?
> > 
> > 
> > > > Didn't get any replies to my question to this list a couple days ago 
> > about anyone's interest in joining the global Linux meeting from there.  
> > Asking once again - do _you_ have any interest?
> > > > 
> > > > http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/




From john_re at fastmail.us  Thu Dec 31 01:36:58 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (giovanni_re)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:36:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: DAY & LOCATION CHANGE for BerkeleyTIP: Sunday January
 3, not Sat Jan 2. SFLUG San Francisco BTIP 1st  meeting of month
Message-ID: <1262252218.31076.1352372553@webmail.messagingengine.com>

----- Original message -----
To: "BTG" <BerkTIPGlobal at googlegroups.com>

Just a quick note to maximize advance planning time for everyone, before i'm able to get regular announcements out, (which I'd wanted to do last Sunday, & still might not even get done tomorrow. :(  ).

This Saturday's meeting is being moved to Sunday, Jan 3, the next day, so that it coincides with SFLUG's meeting in San Francisco.  Same time, 12N-3P Pacific.  :)

Meeting in San Francisco at the Cafe Enchante on Geary Boulevard at 26th Avenue. 
6157 Geary Blvd.  San Francisco, CA 94121

Same format as usual: 12N-3PM   #berkeleytip on freenode irc, voip whatever server is working, preferably btip.  Invite your friends.  We'll get together locally & globally, learn & share.  :)


http://sf-lug.org/

# [sf-lug] Interest in VOIP & BerkeleyTIP-Global mtg at SFLUG? Jan 3 Sunday?   giovanni_re
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007264.html

# [sf-lug] SFLUG Meeting Jan 3 Sun? Wifi? Cafe Enchante   giovanni_re
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q4/007265.html




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 31 07:27:52 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:27:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7979.54096.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

It would be good to have the problem defined.
So far the assumption has been that you want to return the last line of a file which you happen to know will be an integer- I'm doubting that that is the real problem.
Could it be the more general problem of returning all integers? ..integers on single lines by them selves?  .. what are the other possibilities????
This seems like the perfect little exercise for the python class held (over the holidays: somewhat irregularly) on Monday evenings.

ak

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
> To: "SFLUG Mailing List" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 10:25 PM
> I
> have a three line text file
> ?
> ?
> This is a test
> blank line
> 123456
> ?
> ?
> The last line of the file is a number and I need just
> that number....
> ?
> I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep
> 
> ?
> Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
> \\
> Thanks
> ?
> John
> ?
> 
> 
>       
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/


      



From shawnisalk at gmail.com  Thu Dec 31 08:58:56 2009
From: shawnisalk at gmail.com (Shawn Lewis)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:58:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG mtg this Sunday
Message-ID: <66d9ffc40912310858m7da6ecb0yebbac434916f17dc@mail.gmail.com>

FYI This Sunday, the date is January 3rd, not 2nd.

This will be my first SF-LUG meeting, and I'm looking forward to connecting
with some of you.

Blessings,
Shawn
-------------- next part --------------
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From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 31 10:08:03 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:08:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <7979.54096.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <7979.54096.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1262282883.9805.114.camel@jim-laptop>


+1 

   wrt problem definitions, maybe we can come up with 
several common parameters and general cases via email 
before the hoped-for python class that may or may not 
happen at noisebridge from 6:30 PM to 8 PM this coming 
monday (20100104)? (interested in a more-or-less 
intro to python and/or programming in general? this 
class has a flexible and accommodating format to let 
people just jump right in no matter their level.) 


   i like general parametric and problem definitions 
that can be used as specs for a variety of languages, 
(for my interests: shell scripts, c, and python) 
e.g.: 

parametric specs: 
* all files are ASCII text files (note that numbers, 
therefore, are strings of text constrained to the 
ten numerals and perhaps the six alpha chars 
(a,b,c,d,e,f) for hex (and if so, uppercase and/or 
lowercase). 
* types of numbers: phone numbers, dates, money, 
results of the four arithmetic operations, output 
of commonly used gnu toolkit commands (e.g. wc).... 
* common flatfile formats (e.g. /etc/passwd, which 
uses both the colon (:) and the comma (,) 
characters as field delimiters, the command line 
(and shell scripts) which typically (tho' not 
necessarily) use the space character as field 
(parameter) delimiters.... 
* a filter that can be used to parse the output 
of commands (which commands: who, ps, wc...?), 
probably should exercise the use of the cut 
command if implemented as a shell script: what's 
the python equivalent of the cut command? 
* anything involving the use of the find command 
(what's the python equivalent?). 

use case specs: 
* /etc/passwd and /etc/group (maybe the fifth 
field--the "comment" field--if it has 
comma-delimited contact info?). 
* shell scripts (parsing python or perl scripts 
seems a bit beyond). 
* various configuration files, the more regular 
the better (e.g. dns zone files)  
* simple flatfile use cases in which each "record" 
is on a line by itself and for which fields are 
delimited by some one character (and possibly 
allowing a sub-field delimiter, again e.g. the 
fifth field of the /etc/passwd file). this could 
include custom files such as a list of friends 
with contact info and birthdays, a ToDo list with 
dates and chores. again, the more regular the 
better. (i recall that larry wall developed perl 
from the c programs and shell scripts he'd 
created as his own toolkit to "parse" irregular 
text files. 

(stop me, i can't help myself...) 




On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 07:27 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> It would be good to have the problem defined.
> So far the assumption has been that you want to return the last line of a file which you happen to know will be an integer- I'm doubting that that is the real problem.
> Could it be the more general problem of returning all integers? ..integers on single lines by them selves?  .. what are the other possibilities????
> This seems like the perfect little exercise for the python class held (over the holidays: somewhat irregularly) on Monday evenings.
> 
> ak
> 
> --- On Wed, 12/30/09, John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
> > To: "SFLUG Mailing List" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 10:25 PM
> > I
> > have a three line text file
> >  
> >  
> > This is a test
> > blank line
> > 123456
> >  
> >  
> > The last line of the file is a number and I need just
> > that number....
> >  
> > I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep
> > 
> >  
> > Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
> > \\
> > Thanks
> >  
> > John
> >  
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 31 10:41:31 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 10:41:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <1262282883.9805.114.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <7979.54096.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1262282883.9805.114.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1262284891.9805.142.camel@jim-laptop>




   oh, yeah: also, how can we structure for loops for 
these problems? 

for <VAR> in <LIST> <COMMANDS> 

for i in `seq 1 3 120` 
do 
head -$i <filename> | tail -1 | cut -d':' -f4 
done 



On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 10:08 -0800, jim wrote:
> +1 
> 
>    wrt problem definitions, maybe we can come up with 
> several common parameters and general cases via email 
> before the hoped-for python class that may or may not 
> happen at noisebridge from 6:30 PM to 8 PM this coming 
> monday (20100104)? (interested in a more-or-less 
> intro to python and/or programming in general? this 
> class has a flexible and accommodating format to let 
> people just jump right in no matter their level.) 
> 
> 
>    i like general parametric and problem definitions 
> that can be used as specs for a variety of languages, 
> (for my interests: shell scripts, c, and python) 
> e.g.: 
> 
> parametric specs: 
> * all files are ASCII text files (note that numbers, 
> therefore, are strings of text constrained to the 
> ten numerals and perhaps the six alpha chars 
> (a,b,c,d,e,f) for hex (and if so, uppercase and/or 
> lowercase). 
> * types of numbers: phone numbers, dates, money, 
> results of the four arithmetic operations, output 
> of commonly used gnu toolkit commands (e.g. wc).... 
> * common flatfile formats (e.g. /etc/passwd, which 
> uses both the colon (:) and the comma (,) 
> characters as field delimiters, the command line 
> (and shell scripts) which typically (tho' not 
> necessarily) use the space character as field 
> (parameter) delimiters.... 
> * a filter that can be used to parse the output 
> of commands (which commands: who, ps, wc...?), 
> probably should exercise the use of the cut 
> command if implemented as a shell script: what's 
> the python equivalent of the cut command? 
> * anything involving the use of the find command 
> (what's the python equivalent?). 
> 
> use case specs: 
> * /etc/passwd and /etc/group (maybe the fifth 
> field--the "comment" field--if it has 
> comma-delimited contact info?). 
> * shell scripts (parsing python or perl scripts 
> seems a bit beyond). 
> * various configuration files, the more regular 
> the better (e.g. dns zone files)  
> * simple flatfile use cases in which each "record" 
> is on a line by itself and for which fields are 
> delimited by some one character (and possibly 
> allowing a sub-field delimiter, again e.g. the 
> fifth field of the /etc/passwd file). this could 
> include custom files such as a list of friends 
> with contact info and birthdays, a ToDo list with 
> dates and chores. again, the more regular the 
> better. (i recall that larry wall developed perl 
> from the c programs and shell scripts he'd 
> created as his own toolkit to "parse" irregular 
> text files. 
> 
> (stop me, i can't help myself...) 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 07:27 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> > It would be good to have the problem defined.
> > So far the assumption has been that you want to return the last line of a file which you happen to know will be an integer- I'm doubting that that is the real problem.
> > Could it be the more general problem of returning all integers? ..integers on single lines by them selves?  .. what are the other possibilities????
> > This seems like the perfect little exercise for the python class held (over the holidays: somewhat irregularly) on Monday evenings.
> > 
> > ak
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 12/30/09, John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > From: John F. Strazzarino <jstrazza at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
> > > To: "SFLUG Mailing List" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 10:25 PM
> > > I
> > > have a three line text file
> > >  
> > >  
> > > This is a test
> > > blank line
> > > 123456
> > >  
> > >  
> > > The last line of the file is a number and I need just
> > > that number....
> > >  
> > > I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep
> > > 
> > >  
> > > Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
> > > \\
> > > Thanks
> > >  
> > > John
> > >  
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       
> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 31 11:41:48 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:41:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1262288508.9805.186.camel@jim-laptop>



so what'd you think so far, john? 



On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 22:25 -0800, John F. Strazzarino wrote:
> I have a three line text file
>  
>  
> This is a test
> blank line
> 123456
>  
>  
> The last line of the file is a number and I need just that number....
>  
> I know that this must be a combo of tail and grep 
>  
> Can anyone help......nothing fancy is needed...
> \\
> Thanks
>  
> John
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Dec 31 12:22:54 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 12:22:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <1262288508.9805.186.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1262288508.9805.186.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091231202253.GT5824@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> so what'd you think so far, john? 

Well, he wrote me offlist to say that 'tail -n 1 [filename]' 
suffices to solve his problem.




From jim at well.com  Thu Dec 31 13:02:07 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:02:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <20091231202253.GT5824@linuxmafia.com>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1262288508.9805.186.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091231202253.GT5824@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1262293327.9805.237.camel@jim-laptop>



hmmm. 

tail -1 filename 

tail -n 1 filename 

tail --lines=1 filename 

so many choices. i wonder why. 

   also, tho' neither the --help nor the man page 
mentions it, tail -1 (or any other number) works. 

   even more also: for the first time i've noticed 
that tail has a -c option that claims to dump the 
last so many bytes of a file
$ tail -c 7 filename 
$ echo "hey, wow, things are better" | tail -c 9 
e better
$ 
(probably good for fully binary files, as newline 
seems not respected) 
$ echo "abc wxyz
gosh" | tail -c 9 
xyz
gosh
$ 

   and yet more: tail has a -q option, for quiet. say 
what? the -q option, according to --help and the man 
page, suppresses output of headers. 
   note the -c and the -q options exist for the head 
command, too. 




On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 12:22 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):
> 
> > so what'd you think so far, john? 
> 
> Well, he wrote me offlist to say that 'tail -n 1 [filename]' 
> suffices to solve his problem.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> Information about SF-LUG is at http://www.sf-lug.org/
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Dec 31 14:28:55 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:28:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] I need a quick piece of code..
In-Reply-To: <1262293327.9805.237.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <749310.32223.qm@web35603.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1262288508.9805.186.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20091231202253.GT5824@linuxmafia.com>
	<1262293327.9805.237.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20091231222855.GV30321@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jim Stockford (jim at well.com):

> hmmm. 
> 
> tail -1 filename 
> 
> tail -n 1 filename 
> 
> tail --lines=1 filename 
> 
> so many choices. i wonder why. 
> 
>    also, tho' neither the --help nor the man page 
> mentions it, tail -1 (or any other number) works. 

The thing about options unmentioned in manpages is that they are prone
to suddenly ceasing to work, at unpredictable times, following upgrade -- 
or working on some systems but not others.  I learned this with the old
"date -I" command of blessed memory, which used to produce date output
in ISO 8601 format, like "2009-12-31".  In fact, that was a shorthand
equivalent of "date --iso-8601", except much easier to remember.

What's attractive about ISO 8601 date format is that it sorts properly,
e.g., when you do "program > /var/log/programlog-$(date -I)".

But then, both of those options disappeared from the manpage.  And then,
both started not working on some Linux distributions (RHEL) but working
on others (Debian), depending on whether the distro had updated GNU
coreutils to pick up upstream changes to the date command.

What had happened inside the GNU coreutils project, but unnoticed by
most of us, is that the upstream maintainers had first introduced
--rfc-3339 (obviously, not easy to remember, either) -- for the
questionable reason of ISO 8601 being a profile of RFC 3339.  Option
-i was proposed as a replacement short option (standing for 'Internet
time'), but rejected because Paul Eggert's PC clock was too jittery
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-coreutils/2005-09/msg00056.html)

Anyway, the fact that "-I" suddenly disappeared from the manpage was a
big clue that you'd be wise to stop relying on it.  Turned out, the 
least-annoying replacement syntax was:

date +%F

-- 
Rick Moen              "Having the right word is much more satisfying than just 
rick at linuxmafia.com    sleeping around with any old word that comes along."
                                                            -- FakeAPStylebook