From justizin at labs.vongogo.net  Thu Jan  1 01:33:51 2009
From: justizin at labs.vongogo.net (Justin Ryan)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 01:33:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] What would happen if Linux if Linus died tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <780399.26819.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <598ed5ff0812311130j484a5a48u34dbdcebdcfbbce1@mail.gmail.com>
	<780399.26819.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <a2e4b06a0901010133r2ef47df2p5a3d9ecad2bcfb4e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If Linux died tomorrow...The earth's rotation would come to a complete
> halt.


You may very well be right, I think the Mythbusters might agree, but IMNSHO,
we would probably just become more susceptible to sunspots. ;)

Peace, Linux-Love, and Happy New Free Year!

J
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Jan  1 11:43:49 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:43:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday meeting / XO
In-Reply-To: <1230779121.6562.483.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <618052.34845.qm@web111011.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1230779121.6562.483.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901011143r6e5702abi2bcb6b484b7f5aea@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:05 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>   yes, sf-lug is scheduled to meet at the
> javacat on sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM. i
> usually announce late friday or late
> saturday; maybe i should do so earlier in
> the week.
>   i'll bring an XO or two as well.
>
>

Excellent. I'll plan on bringing mine as well. I have some new apps
and interesting tidbits to share. See y'all Sunday!!!
--
Sameer

>
> On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 18:32 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
>> Jim,
>> Is Sunday 11am going to be a LUG meeting at the JavaCat?
>> I have two XOs that I plan to bring and Sameer may come to take them for a spin. Other members may like to see what they do.
>> alex
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From jim at well.com  Thu Jan  1 16:12:49 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:12:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets sunday, january 4,
	at the javacat from 11 AM to 1 PM
Message-ID: <1230855169.6562.519.camel@jim-laptop>


sf-lug meets this sunday, january 4, from 11 AM to 
1 PM or so at the javacat on geary boulevard at 
20th avenue in san francisco. 

some of us will bring news. some of us may being 
questions. a few of us might bring XO laptops to 
demo. 





From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Jan  1 22:08:30 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:08:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] What would happen if Linux if Linus died tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <20081231195748.GB2150@linuxmafia.com>
References: <598ed5ff0812311130j484a5a48u34dbdcebdcfbbce1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081231195748.GB2150@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901012208h2390bcfbha443e366a9ffaa9c@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Quoting phillip tribble (phillip.tribble at gmail.com):
>
>> http://digg.com/linux_unix/If_Linus_died_tomorrow
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/20011113013913/http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=38b40d78-087dd360
>

An often under-represented outcome of the study is about the muffin
connection. From the paper's "Conclusions and Recommendations"
section, "Also, his muffin intake should be monitored."

:-o (muffin face)

cheers,
Sameer

> --
> Cheers,              Crypto lets someone say "Hi! I absolutely definitely have
> Rick Moen            a name somewhat like the name of a large familiar
> rick at linuxmafia.com  organization, and I'd like to steal your data!" and lots
> McQ!  (4x80)         of users will say "OK, fine, whatever."    -- John Levine
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From john_re at fastmail.us  Fri Jan  2 00:16:19 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 00:16:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BerkeleyTIP TOMORROW Jan 3 Sat- Party Time :) Video Talks:
 Asterisk, GPU
Message-ID: <1230884179.31772.1292647075@webmail.messagingengine.com>

YOU ARE INVITED TO ATTEND  :)  Join in with the friendly BTIP people.
IRC & VOIP communication - Use Ekiga VOIP SW & a Headset.

GLOBAL SIMULTANEOUS GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW & HW Monthly Meeting
TIP = Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
January 3rd 2009, Saturday.
Time: 10 AM - 6 PM    (All times Pacific USA)
  Adjust for your local time zone.   (Ex: = 1 PM - 9 PM Eastern)
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
[Click "Join this group" on the right page side to join the mail list.]

VIDEO TALKS
12N  - The Asterisk Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy NYLUG
 2PM - GPU Computing - John Stone CLUG.org.za


U C BERKELEY LOCATION ATTENDEES: 1) PLEASE RSVP TO ME! THANKS!
2) NEW BERKELEY MEETING LOCATION THIS MONTH!!  TO BE DETERMINED.
SEE DETAILS at  http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIP
Post CARPOOL messages on that list! :)
3) No POTLUCK this month. I'm waiting till we get VOIP perfected.


==  TALK TOPICS, PROGRAMMING PARTY, INSTALLFEST, DISCUSSION  ==
Two great TALK TOPICS this month, one on the Asterisk Telephone/VOIP
system, and the other on GPUs -  Graphics Processing Units (the hardware
in graphics cards) which can do general purpose computing.

The directed PROGRAMMING PARTY will be to investigate Asterisk & Ekiga
with a goal to work on improving their technology for VOIP for the
BerkTIP-Global meeting. Undirected = work on whatever you're interested
in - what _is_ that?  Post a message to the BTIP-Global list.

INSTALLFEST: Maybe several laptop installs/upgrades in Berkeley, KUbuntu
& RH likely.  What are _you_ looking to do?  Post a message to the
BTIP-Global list.

DISCUSSION ITEMS:  Lots of exciting things to talk about: New AMD Phenom
II out Jan 8th, 64bit GUI distros, Firefox multi instance. Is OpenOffice
in poor development shape?  What's the best File System?  Intel hires
Alan Cox.  BTIP VOIP improvement features.  And, planning for the 2009
year - What would be fun to try to accomplish this year? International
members?  Better VOIP?  Video conferencing? Live talks?


=====================================================================
=====  BERKELEY-TIP: WHAT IT IS, WHAT WE DO, YOU ARE INVITED  =======

BerkeleyTIP is the MONTHLY GLOBAL / world wide
GNU(Linux), BSD & all Free Software & Hardware MEETING.
SIMULTANEOUS around the world.
TIP = Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
[Click "Join this group" on the right page side to join the mail list.]
The 1st Saturday of every month.

We get together to LEARN, TALK, HELP, HAVE FUN,
& PRODUCE more FREE SOFTWARE.
And, wherever you are, you're invited. :)
Come to Berkeley, or join with us on line, using VOIP & IRC.
Beginner to Expert - Old to Young - Student, Working or Retired -
Male or Female - Everyone is INVITED & WELCOME.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO PROGRAM, OR BE A PROGRAMMER.
END USERS WELCOME TO LEARN, CHAT, GET INSTALL HELP, etc.
JOIN with the meeting FOR ALL OR JUST PART of the TIME.
JOIN with the meeting FOR ALL OR JUST SOME of the ACTIVITIES.


=====================================================================
=====  CONTENTS:
=====  1) IRC & VOIP Communication
=====  2) VIDEO Talks- Thanks to CLUG & NYLUG videographers!
=====  3) ProgrammingParty = VOIP
=====  4) INSTALLFEST


=====  1) IRC & VOIP Communication
Join from home, or wherever you can get an IRC & VOIP connection.
Join by yourself, or with friends.
IRC: Freenode.net, Channel: #BerkeleyTIP
VOIP: Use Ekiga SW & a VOIP headset, 
  Do an Ekiga loopback test before the meeting, to ensure your system
  works properly.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip
Join the IRC channel & we'll help you get set up on VOIP.


=====  2) VIDEO Talks- Thanks to CLUG & NYLUG videographers!
Times are Pacific USA time - Adjust for your local time zone:
  Ex: Eastern time = Pacific + 3, ie 12N PST = 3PM EST
12N  - The Asterisk Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy NYLUG
 2PM - GPU Computing - John Stone CLUG  www.clug.org.za

Download the videos the day or night before, so your connection is free
for VOIP, not consumed by the video download. Videos are typically
100 MB - 1 GB.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/videos

== DOWNLOAD LINKS
The Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy
Run time: 1:22:15
http://nylug.org/meetings/index.shtml?20081000
http://www.archive.org/details/NYLUG_2008_10_23_General_Meeting_Video/

GPU Computing - John Stone
Keywords: GPU Computing; Parallel computing; HPC; high performance
computing; protein folding; vmd
Run time: 01:42:37
http://www.archive.org/details/clug-28-10-2008-gpu-computing


=====  3) ProgrammingParty = VOIP
We'll work on learning about the Ekiga & Asterisk software. Goal is to
improve the SW or config to improve aspects of VOIP for the BTIP meeting
- more end user info, details about the connection, communication
between client & server, & server admin interface.

=====  4) INSTALLFEST
In Berkeley we'll likely be working to figure out why a Dell Vostro 1 yr
old with a new KUbuntu 8.04 (I chose that over 8.10 to avoid KDE 4 till
its got more bugs out & more features in) is locking up, in fact might
have messed up the booting SW, cause it hangs booting linux now, but
boots the preinstalled-nonfreesw OS.  Possible suspects: bad WiFi
driver, bad NVidia HW or driver, perhaps leading to bad disk writes. Or,
maybe bad disk or controller or MBoard?

IF item 2: is a possible Ubuntu Intrepid install help.  IF item 3: is a
possible distro upgrade on a 5+yo IBM thinkpad with a several years old
RH.  The owner knows in the past there have been problems with the power
management or battery driver, & hates dealing with the details of having
to investigate & locate a driver, then patch & compile a custom kernel
to make it work.


=====
What questions do you have?  Join the group mailing lists & say hi, or
ask any questions.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIP
[Click "Join this group" on the right page side to join the mail list.]



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 09:11:35 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:11:35 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] What would happen if Linux if Linus died tomorrow?
In-Reply-To: <20081231195748.GB2150@linuxmafia.com>
References: <598ed5ff0812311130j484a5a48u34dbdcebdcfbbce1@mail.gmail.com>
	<20081231195748.GB2150@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <683785120901020911u795e43caje3983a35483ac3e2@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 2:57 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20011113013913/http://segfault.org/story.phtml?mode=2&id=38b40d78-087dd360

Everyone is obsessed with this bus thing.  He's rich.  He goes by car.

http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/specificator



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Fri Jan  2 11:20:15 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:20:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] power saving on desktop with powernowd or cpufreq
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901021120n638a74d6xb24f3259d9395898@mail.gmail.com>

I'm trying to get power saving going on one of my desktops.

cat /proc/cpuinfo spits:

sverma at i:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor	: 0
vendor_id	: GenuineIntel
cpu family	: 15
model		: 2
model name	: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz
stepping	: 9
cpu MHz		: 2593.484
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 2
core id		: 0
cpu cores	: 1
apicid		: 0
initial apicid	: 0
fdiv_bug	: no
hlt_bug		: no
f00f_bug	: no
coma_bug	: no
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 2
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov
pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe pebs bts cid
xtpr
bogomips	: 5186.96
clflush size	: 64
power management:

processor	: 1
vendor_id	: GenuineIntel
cpu family	: 15
model		: 2
model name	: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz
stepping	: 9
cpu MHz		: 2593.484
cache size	: 512 KB
physical id	: 0
siblings	: 2
core id		: 0
cpu cores	: 1
apicid		: 1
initial apicid	: 1
fdiv_bug	: no
hlt_bug		: no
f00f_bug	: no
coma_bug	: no
fpu		: yes
fpu_exception	: yes
cpuid level	: 2
wp		: yes
flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov
pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe pebs bts cid
xtpr
bogomips	: 5187.47
clflush size	: 64
power management:



Steeping: 9 is promising, but power management line being blank is
suspect. Anyone have suggestions on how to proceed?

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Fri Jan  2 13:26:31 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:26:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] power saving on desktop with powernowd or cpufreq
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901021120n638a74d6xb24f3259d9395898@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901021120n638a74d6xb24f3259d9395898@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901021622440.2099@rose.makesad.us>

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009, Sameer Verma wrote:

> I'm trying to get power saving going on one of my desktops.
>
> cat /proc/cpuinfo spits:
>
> sverma at i:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo

> model name	: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.60GHz

What a sad story.  Then Pentium 4 CPU has very little to recommend it, 
including in the arena of power management.

The help for the kernel's p4clockmod says how tragic a hack it is, since 
desktop P4s support so little in the way of power management.

Pentium M-based things, like the "Core Solo" or "Core 2 Duo" (or so on), 
have real power management features.  Then Pentium 4 "M"(obile) I know 
little about, but I have been taught to fear anything with "Pentium 4" in 
the name.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
"Well, if you can't believe what you read in a comic book, what *can*
you believe?!"
 		-- Bullwinkle J. Moose [Jay Ward]



From phillip.tribble at gmail.com  Fri Jan  2 14:31:03 2009
From: phillip.tribble at gmail.com (phillip tribble)
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:31:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Katy Perry Kisses RMS
Message-ID: <598ed5ff0901021431m408b2014hc5a48a69225a60cb@mail.gmail.com>

http://digg.com/linux_unix/Katy_Perry_Kisses_RMS <--digg it!


-- 
Phillip Tribble
Rushers Blog
http://rusher.webhop.org
"If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step behind"
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Jan  4 10:34:20 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:34:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [svlug] Free Hardware
In-Reply-To: <dbe778760901041026l5f4838ebyc2fe11579469ba51@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dbe778760901041026l5f4838ebyc2fe11579469ba51@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901041034y231d36elac337d01171466e2@mail.gmail.com>

As seen on svlug.

Sameer


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Eugene Zelenko <eugene.zelenko at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 10:26 AM
Subject: [svlug] Free Hardware
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org


Hi!

My division (of company I works for) moved recently into new building.
As result some hardware ended in electronic recycling:

IBM

IBM Thinkpad Port replicator Part Number 02K8668

AC adapter Part Number 08K8204
AC adapter Part Number 08K8208

External 3.5" FDD Part Number 08K9606
External 3.5" FDD Part Number 05K8874

Sony Vaio:

CD-RW/DVD Docking Station Model PCGA-DMS5
External CD-ROM drive Model PCGA-CD51/A
External DVD-ROM drive Model PCGA-DVD51

Toshiba

Port replicator Model PA3082U-1PRP

Seagate

Barracuda ATA 9.1G HDD Model ST39120A
Cheetah SCSI HDD model ST318405LC

Sun

32 - 64 Mb RAM (probably for Ultra 10)

3Com

Ethernet dongle for PCMCIA card

Please let my know in private e-mail if you interested in some parts.
I could bring them to SVLUG meeting.

Eugene.

_______________________________________________
svlug mailing list
svlug at lists.svlug.org
http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Jan  4 19:06:01 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:06:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Jan 5 6:30 PM: Chapters 9 and 10
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901041857160.5748@vellum.laroia.net>

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Jan 5 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 9-10

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book010.html 
(and the next one)

This week, we look at playing games with the English language using Python 
based on word list files.  Chapter 10 returns to the less exciting topic 
of lists, but this is our first foray into "mutable data", data that you 
can modify. A chapter 10 exercise one of the fundamental computer science 
algorithms, binary search.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to 
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun 
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of 
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology 
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think 
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on 
the list.

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A:	A stick.





From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  5 09:34:56 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:34:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
Message-ID: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>


   hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers: 


   we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy 
IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end 
and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which 
is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10. 
   crackers regularly knock on the door. we've 
implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we 
think they should. for example: 

we have a rule (one of many similar) 
-A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
--src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
--dport 22 -j DROP 

iptables -L shows 
DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh 

and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts 
for a variety of user names from 
124.93.200.34 

   the box has been cracked once already, we fixed 
that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known 
default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and 
password, which was probably a well-known default). 

   ideas we have include 
* mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting 
/var/log/, which is a separate mount point)
* have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22 
(and change iptables rules accordingly) 
* have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor 
the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and 
probably shutting down the box upon discovering such. 
* /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses 
that crackers have used on us. 

   we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense 
and hope some of you will chime in with opinions about 
our ideas as well as ideas we haven't thought of. 






From tom at greenleaftech.net  Mon Jan  5 10:11:51 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:11:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1231179111.27490.12.camel@hurlyburly>

On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 09:34 -0800, jim wrote:
> hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers: 
> 
> 
>    we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy 
> IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end 
> and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which 
> is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10. 
>    crackers regularly knock on the door. we've 
> implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we 
> think they should. for example: 
> 
> we have a rule (one of many similar) 
> -A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
> --src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
> --dport 22 -j DROP 
> 
> iptables -L shows 
> DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
> 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh 
> 
> and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts 
> for a variety of user names from 
> 124.93.200.34 
> 

Two things to mention here:

1) fail2ban - I haven't actually used it myself, but have heard good
things, and this automates what you're talking about (and is available
as a package from the Ubuntu repos).
Description: bans IPs that cause multiple authentication errors
 Monitors log files (e.g. /var/log/auth.log, /var/log/apache/access.log)
and temporarily or persistently bans failure-prone
 addresses by updating existing firewall rules. The software was
completely rewritten at version 0.7.0 and now allows easy
 specification of different actions to be taken such as to ban an IP
using iptables or hostsdeny rules, or simply to send a
 notification email. Currently, by default, supports ssh/apache/vsftpd
but configuration can be easily extended for monitoring
 any other ASCII file. All filters and actions are given in the config
files, thus fail2ban can be adopted to be used with a
 variety of files and firewalls.
Homepage: http://www.fail2ban.org

2) ufw - Uncomplicated firewall - kind of a nice frontend for iptables.
Only really of use if you're not intimately familiar with iptables, but
thought I'd mention it anyway.

Cheers, Tom


>    the box has been cracked once already, we fixed 
> that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known 
> default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and 
> password, which was probably a well-known default). 
> 
>    ideas we have include 
> * mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting 
> /var/log/, which is a separate mount point)
> * have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22 
> (and change iptables rules accordingly) 
> * have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor 
> the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and 
> probably shutting down the box upon discovering such. 
> * /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses 
> that crackers have used on us. 
> 
>    we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense 
> and hope some of you will chime in with opinions about 
> our ideas as well as ideas we haven't thought of. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Jan  5 12:08:40 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:08:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday meeting / XO
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901011143r6e5702abi2bcb6b484b7f5aea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <618052.34845.qm@web111011.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<1230779121.6562.483.camel@jim-laptop>
	<5fb387c70901011143r6e5702abi2bcb6b484b7f5aea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901051208h1dd71c02iebc7ac62a3ad355@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 1, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 7:05 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>
>>   yes, sf-lug is scheduled to meet at the
>> javacat on sunday from 11 AM to 1 PM. i
>> usually announce late friday or late
>> saturday; maybe i should do so earlier in
>> the week.
>>   i'll bring an XO or two as well.
>>
>>
>
> Excellent. I'll plan on bringing mine as well. I have some new apps
> and interesting tidbits to share. See y'all Sunday!!!
> --
> Sameer
>
>>
>> On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 18:32 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>> Is Sunday 11am going to be a LUG meeting at the JavaCat?
>>> I have two XOs that I plan to bring and Sameer may come to take them for a spin. Other members may like to see what they do.
>>> alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>

Useful links from yesterday's meeting and information that folks asked
for at Cafe Euro (meeting place).

1) Upgrade your XO to build 767 aka 8.2 (second major release for
2008) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_notes/8.2.0 We followed
instructions in section 3.2 (USB-based upgrade)
2) Retroscope activity http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Retroscope-1.xo
3) Living Pointillism activity
http://eclecti.cc/olpc/pointillism-the-it-works-this-time-edition
4) Details of current deployments http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployments
5) OLPC-SF page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_SanFranciscoBayArea

Hope this helps.

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Jan  5 12:11:06 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:11:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901051211n34cdf25ei2948acbb2a81c56e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:34 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>   hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers:
>
>
>   we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy
> IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end
> and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which
> is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10.
>   crackers regularly knock on the door. we've
> implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we
> think they should. for example:
>
> we have a rule (one of many similar)
> -A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
> --src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
> --dport 22 -j DROP
>
> iptables -L shows
> DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
> 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh
>
> and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts
> for a variety of user names from
> 124.93.200.34
>
>   the box has been cracked once already, we fixed
> that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known
> default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and
> password, which was probably a well-known default).
>
>   ideas we have include
> * mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting
> /var/log/, which is a separate mount point)
> * have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22
> (and change iptables rules accordingly)
> * have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor
> the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and
> probably shutting down the box upon discovering such.
> * /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses
> that crackers have used on us.
>
>   we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense
> and hope some of you will chime in with opinions about
> our ideas as well as ideas we haven't thought of.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

I use DenyHosts on all my Internet-facing machines. It works well for
us. http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/122

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From phillip.tribble at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 14:36:19 2009
From: phillip.tribble at gmail.com (phillip tribble)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:36:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Scale
Message-ID: <598ed5ff0901051436x4f299e1at66fc631d5333b2b1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello ,

I was "considering" going to Scale in February and wanted to drive down to
LA to save money. Anyone going to scale and want to car pool?  My car can
carry 2 additional people comfortably with room for luggage.

http://scale7x.socallinuxexpo.org/


For 2009, SCALE will reprise the Women In Open Source ("WIOS"), and
OpenSource Software In Education ("OSSIE") specialty tracks on the Friday
prior to SCALE.

DOHCS, the Demonstrating Open Source Health Care Solutions conference, has
spun off on its own but will be co-located with SCALE on the Friday prior to
SCALE. See their web site at http://www.dohcs.org for info.

SCALE 7x, the premier Open Source Community conference in the southwestern
United States, returns to the Westin LAX Hotel, site of the 6th Expo!

For 2009, the main weekend conference at SCALE 7x has been expanded. In
addition to the three main tracks, a Beginner's track and a Developer's
track have been added.

SCALE will be February 20th - 22nd, 2009. Mark your calendars!

SCALE needs YOU to speak at SCALE! Whether you are an experienced user of
Open Source software, or have only been in using it for a few months, if you
have a story to tell, we'd like to hear it!

We have a need for speakers across the experience spectrum, from the
Developer's track to the Beginner's track. If you enjoy speaking, consider
applying for a speaker position.

-- 
Regards,

Phillip Tribble
Penguin Computing
Technical Support
ptribble at penguincomputing.com




-- 
Phillip Tribble
Rushers Blog
http://rusher.webhop.org
"If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step behind"
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  5 14:37:43 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:37:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers: 

Hmm, I think you've already somewhat gone amiss with your (implied)
mental model:  In general, taking an already-built *ix system as a
given, fixed thing and then asking how you can "defend" it is a losing
strategy.  Instead, you should ask yourself what threats against the
machine are worth worrying about, and how to do some combination of the
following concerning them:  prevention, detection, damage reduction,
defence in depth, hardening, identification of the attackers, and
recovery.  A big part of that should be re-examining the basic contents
and design of the entire system.  But you have to start with assessing
and understanding threat models, a point I'll return to, below.

Some guy I shave once wrote in an IDG article
(http://www.itworld.com/print/36437):

   Ozancin's talk was fairly comprehensive and typical of such security
   talks in its emphasis: it focused almost entirely on prevention and
   detection.

   Prevention and detection are, of course, very good things, but
   ideally they should be part of a better-rounded effort at risk
   assessment and management. That should include damage reduction (what
   is at risk?), defence in depth (how can we avoid having all our eggs
   in one basket?), hardening (e.g., jumpering the SCSI drives read-only
   for some filesystems, and altering Ethernet hardware to make
   promiscuous mode impossible), identification of the attackers, and
   recovery from security incidents. Explicit security policies,
   security auditing, the design and testing of backup systems, automatic
   and manual log analysis, handling of dialup access, physical security
   for the network, the special problems posed by laptop users, security
   training and documentation, and disaster recovery and costing are
   necessary parts of such an effort.



>    we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy 
> IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end 
> and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which 
> is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10. 
>    crackers regularly knock on the door. we've 
> implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we 
> think they should. for example: 
> 
> we have a rule (one of many similar) 
> -A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
> --src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
> --dport 22 -j DROP 
> 
> iptables -L shows 
> DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
> 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh 
> 
> and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts 
> for a variety of user names from 
> 124.93.200.34 

You're impliedly classifying this as a problem.  I question whether it's
actually a threat in any meaningful sense, even though:  Any box exposed
to Internet traffic on any port is going to get probed, many, many times
a day.  As part of that, anyone running sshd will get the Internet
equivalent of twisting the doorknob, which is basically what you've
described above, many, many times each and every day.

For analogy's sake, let's say you visit a nice city and stay in a hotel.
You go out, but carelessly leave your room door unlocked.  When you
return, you've been burglarised.  

Dismaying, to be sure.  However, is it appropriate to go shopping for
complex door-management hardware?  Wouldn't it be smarter, understanding
as you do the threat model of people twisting hotel doorknobs and
burglarising rooms that have been carelessly left unlocked, to just not
leave your door unlocked in the future?

In the case of *ix systems, there are system cracklibs, i.e., the system
can and should insist that people use strong passwords whenever they run
/usr/bin/passwd.[1]  the /etc/pam.d/common-password PAM configuration
file controls this.  You probably have something like this, there:


  # /etc/pam.d/common-password - password-related modules common to all
  # services
  #
  # This file is included from other service-specific PAM config files,
  # and should contain a list of modules that define  the services to be
  # used to change user passwords.  The default is pam_unix

  # The "nullok" option allows users to change an empty password, else
  # empty passwords are treated as locked accounts.
  #
  # (Add `md5' after the module name to enable MD5 passwords)
  #
  # The "obscure" option replaces the old `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB' option in
  # login.defs. Also the "min" and "max" options enforce the length of the
  # new password.

  password   required   pam_unix.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 md5

  # Alternate strength checking for password. Note that this
  # requires the libpam-cracklib package to be installed.
  # You will need to comment out the password line above and
  # uncomment the next two in order to use this.
  # (Replaces the `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB', `CRACKLIB_DICTPATH')
  #
  # password required       pam_cracklib.so retry=3 minlen=6 difok=3
  # password required       pam_unix.so use_authtok nullok md5

As the system says, you probably want to install the libpam-cracklib
package and uncomment the two lines in the above file, to enable it.
This page has full details:
http://www.deer-run.com/~hal/sysadmin/pam_cracklib.html

>    the box has been cracked once already, we fixed 
> that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known 
> default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and 
> password, which was probably a well-known default). 

So, you did something very unwise and got caught napping.  Don't feel
too bad; in 1995, I (similarly) made the mistake of assuming the Debian
AWstats package has security-safe defaults, and got my Web front page
defaced.  At the time, I was so surprised and panicked that, in
response, I (incorrectly) assumed the server was root-compromised and
rebuilt it from scratch, unnecessarily.[2]  See:
http://linuxmafia.com/news.html

By the way, your above wording raises a couple of concerns:

1.  Does the term "cracked" in this context entail _root_ compromise?
I.e., did the intruder merely enter the system masquerading as a
legitimate user ("ubuntu")[3] whose password he/she guessed -- or, more
likely, whose automated script guessed that password -- or did the
intruder do that _and_ then escalate privilege to root-user level or
equivalent?

That, you see, is a really vital question.  If you don't know, you
really, really need to find out, before doing anything else.  If you
still cannot tell after examination, then the safest course of action is
to assume root compromise and do a ground-up system rebuild[4], which is
of course painful.  The experience of that level of pain can be, in
itself, instructive.  In 2005, it taught me to be skeptical about the
security of Web apps, for example.  ;->  (Eventually, it also taught me
a few pointers about how a set of system Web pages might be compromised
without system _root_ compromise, but at that point I'd already slightly
overreacted and done a full rebuild.  Erring on the side of pessimism in 
such matters is unfortunate but probably wiser than the opposite error.)

2.  If your system _did_ get root-compromised, does your phrase "fixed
the vulnerability" mean you did a ground-up system rebuild?  Because,
after root compromise, you really have no alternative but to shut the
system down, secure a copy of the datafiles only, grab an archive set
of the system configuration files and user dotfiles for reference only
but not re-use, rebuild software from trusted media, reconstruct system
configuration files manually referring to the archive set of old
conffiles, restore users' data but not their dotfile directories or
executables, set all new passwords, study the old configuration to
ensure that similar threats are not a problem, post a system bulletin
explaining what happened, and convey to all users their new passwords
out-of-band.

If you do anything less than that (following root compromise), you
haven't fixed the problem.

I stress the above because I've noticed that many newcomers to *ix
aren't taking that situation seriously.  They either don't even try to
determine, following a security incident, whether the system is now root
compromised, and just hope for the best, or seriously think that a
root-compromised system can be "fixed" through some means short of a
ground-up rebuild.

And, anyway, _who_ created "default user ubuntu"?  I really doubt that a
default Ubuntu install creates any such "joe account", as that would be
a ghastly design error.

I suspect a system-local human screwup, e.g., someone with admin
privilege deciding that it'd be a good idea to have login account
"ubuntu" with password "ubuntu".  

Basically, your enforced system policy should preclude creation of "joe
accounts".  Any.



>    ideas we have include 

If you'll pardon my airing an opinion based on long years observing such
discussions, most users' "ideas", and many programmers' ideas, about
security are bad ones.  

The root cause of that badness is failure to start with threat models:
That term refers to a tracing out of a particular potential threat to a
system as to mechanism, severity, what's at risk, credibility (is it
even worth worrying about?), and so on.  You cannot rationally start
taking measures until you understand what you're taking measures
against, and why, and how.

And, to understand threats against your system, you must first and
foremost understand your system.

Many users' "ideas" boil down ultimately to little more than technophile 
gadget-freakery, throwing additional software semi-randomly at poorly
comprehended threats, and thereby making the system more difficult to
understand and its behaviour more difficult to predict.  Many of those
"ideas" also, themselves, give rise to _new_ threats against the system
(often but not always denial of service threats).

Avoidable complexity is, in general, bad from several perspectives
including security.  And most users' instinct, when you ask them for
security suggestions, is to add additional layers of software, which of
course means greater complexity.


> * mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting 
> /var/log/, which is a separate mount point)

This is useful, but you should carefully consider why, e.g., what
purposes does it serve and not serve.  You also might, in a similar
sense, set some mount _options_ for specific parts of the file tree,
limiting what can be done with/to them.

Here's the partition map for the current, 11-year-old linuxmafia.com
box[4]:


# cat /etc/fstab
# /etc/fstab: static file system information.
#
# <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
proc            /proc           proc    nosuid          0       0
/dev/sda5       /               ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
/dev/sda1       /boot           ext2    nodev,nosuid,noexec,ro 0       2
/dev/sdb1       /home           ext3    nodev,nosuid    0       2
/dev/sdb5       /tmp            ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
/dev/sdb8       /usr            ext2    nodev,ro        0       2
/dev/sda9       /usr/local      ext3    defaults        0       2
/dev/sdb7       /var            ext3    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
/dev/sda8       /var/log        ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
/dev/sda7       none            swap    sw              0       0
/dev/sdb6       none            swap    sw              0       0
/dev/fd0        /media/floppy0  auto    rw,user,noauto  0       0
/dev/sda6       /mnt/recovery   ext2    rw,noauto       0       2


# fdisk -l /dev/sda

Disk /dev/sda: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *           1          95       97264   83  Linux
/dev/sda2              96        7369     7448576    5  Extended
/dev/sda5              96        1049      976880   83  Linux
/dev/sda6            1050        1526      488432   83  Linux
/dev/sda7            1527        1647      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sda8            1648        2601      976880   83  Linux
/dev/sda9            2602        7369     4882416   83  Linux


# fdisk -l /dev/sdb

Disk /dev/sdb: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1               1         954      976880   83  Linux
/dev/sdb2             955        6129     5299200    5  Extended
/dev/sdb5             955        1240      292848   83  Linux
/dev/sdb6            1241        1361      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
/dev/sdb7            1362        3268     1952752   83  Linux
/dev/sdb8            3269        6129     2929648   83  Linux


Now, some of that's a bit antiquated, but you might find some useful
ideas in there -- including noting what is _not_ done.  I found out
through trial and error, for example, that it's a bad idea to set the
noexec mount option for /tmp on an ongoing basis, because package
postinst scripts get run from there.  (Which is a pity, since otherwise
one would not want executables to run, there.)  I am tempted to set
noexec on /tmp, and create an "apt" hook to remount it temporarily to
allow the exec bit during package operations only, and then remount
afterwards.  (I already have such a hook for the /usr read-only mount.)

What purposes it does serve:  The read-only mounts protect against the
biggest single threat to your system, which is _you_, the sysadmin.
That is, I (and processes I choose to run) cannot accidentally clobber
/usr or /boot as the root user, because I must remount those filesystems
read-write before I can screw with them.

Also, there are performance advantage to some of the options and
techniques mentioned, e.g., jettisoning the atime stamp on filesystems
that don't need it, and eschewing the overhead of an ext3 journal on
filesystems that either are disposable (/var/log, /tmp) or are normally
read-only (/usr, /boot).

What purposes it does not serve:  A non-automated intruder with
root-level access would not be meaningfully impeded by any of the
partitioning and mount-option controls cited above, because, having root
access, he/she can remount anything as desired, trivially.

However, some of the read-only and restricted options cited above
_could_ very well sabotage many automated attacks if, e.g., in a moment
of weakness I deployed a vulnerable PHP app.  Consider, for example, the
Lupper worm of November 2005, as I described it in
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus5 :  If
triggered remotely via one of the criminally vulnerable target Web
codebases, the remote attack used system calls to run wget, and fetch an
exploit binary to /tmp, and then run that executable.  Setting noexec on
/tmp (which I currently do not do, but am considering again) would
therefore prevent the exploit phase of that canned attack.



> * have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22 
> (and change iptables rules accordingly) 

This is a very popular, classic bad idea:  It's one of the canonical
examples of "security through obscurity", and really gains you nothing
worth having, when seen in reasonable context.

linuxmafia.com's sshd has been on the Internet since the invention of
ssh, _on_ port 22 (along with several others, so that particular users
can have ingress despite stupid corporate firewalls on their end that
block their connection to outbound port 22), and gets doorknob-twisting 
checks for "joe accounts" from random locations on the Internet many
times each day.  No security compromise has ever resulted, nor would I
expect any, because I can do the math.

It's simply not possible to hit up my sshd with a rapid enough barrage
of guessed passwords even for known logins such as "rick", to have any
reasonable likelihood of success in a reasonable time span (like, years).
Even if it were, I'd notice my system falling over because /var/log/*
had overfilled, long before an attacker had even a tiny chance of
success through such a "dictionary attack" on my sshd.

Thus, with all respect to Prof. Verma and Tom Haddon, I deliberately
eschew not only running sshd only on non-standard ports but also things
like DenyHosts and Fail2ban, as pointless because they attempt to solve
the wrong problem.  The correct problem to solve is not "How do I
prevent continual doorknob-twisting?", but rather "How do I ensure that
doorknob-twisting doesn't work?"

It doesn't work on linuxmafia.com because the system has no "joe
accounts", and because dictionary attacks against an sshd statistically
have no prayer of working unless such accounts are present.

> * have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor 
> the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and 
> probably shutting down the box upon discovering such. 
> * /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses 
> that crackers have used on us. 

"Some IP addresses that crackers have used on us"?  C'mon, that's just
dumb.  You have no hope of keeping up, and they have an effectively
unlimited supply of IP addresses, given that many of them are using
zombified MS-Windows desktop boxes as attack vectors.

You really should consider spending the same amount of effort ensuring
that there's nothing on the local system that easily attackable, instead
of trying to wall off potential outside points of origin for attacks
against local vulnerabilities.


> we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense and hope some
> of you will chime in with opinions about our ideas as well as ideas
> we haven't thought of. 

OK.  Start over.

The ideas you've started with are steps in the wrong direction.

Make sure you understand your system, its weak points, and its probable
avenues of attack.  Make sure you've addressed _all_ aspects of the
problem:  prevention, detection, damage reduction, defence in depth,
hardening, identification of the attackers, and recovery.

Some stuff from the guy I shave:

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/linuxmafia.com-backup.html
(You _do_ have a planned-out backup/restore routine, right?)

http://linuxgazette.net/issue98/moen.html
http://www.itworld.com/print/36437
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
http://linuxgazette.net/118/weatherwax.html#1


[1] Note that this is not effective against users wielding root
authority including root-equivalent privilege using sudo.

Also note that it doesn't preclude people using the same credentials on
your system as they do elsewhere, which can lead to user-level breakin 
via stealing of the credentials elsewhere.  Again, see
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
(***COUGH*** shells.sourceforge.net ***COUGH***).

[2] Rebuilding from scratch means that you assume no executable or lib
or configuration file or dotfile can any longer be trusted, because you
estimate that a hostile party has gained root-user access and must
assume he/she has subverted the system.  Everything else that's
necessary to the task of rebuilding follows from that assumption.

[3] There really should not have been such a user.  A *ix system should
not have "role" accounts:  You want individual accountability.  This
general rule does not, however, rule out per-system-process usernames
that the processes run as, such as postgres, bind, sshd, etc.  The
latter should generally have their login shells set as /bin/false in
/etc/passwd, so that they're not even theoretically possible as shell
users.

[4] Well, the hardware's 11 years old.  I moved the site to that
hardware around 6-7 years ago.




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan  5 14:59:12 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:59:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051456520.9080@sf.creativecommons.org>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers:

I was going to make suggestions, but then I thought:
Rick will say everything I will.

So I waited, and now Rick has again impressed me with the sanity and 
referencing of his analysis. Cheers!

The way I'd phrase one point is: Your time spent fiddling with iptables 
here is probably time wasted, as per his hotel break-in analogy.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
There are new messages.



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  5 15:31:05 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 15:31:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday January 8,
	2009: Scrape the Web by	Asheesh Laroia
Message-ID: <1231198265.7760.389.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday January 8, 2009

NOTE BayPIGgies is NOT meeting at Google this month (or next) but
at the Tech Museum on Market Street in San Jose (details below)

Tonight's talk is
Scrape the Web: Strategies for programming websites that don't expect it
by Asheesh Laroia

Do you find yourself faced with websites that have data you need to
extract? Would your life be simpler if you could programmatically
input data into web applications, even those tuned to resist
interaction by bots?

This talk presents the basics of web scraping and then dives into
the details of different methods and where they are most applicable.
You'll leave with an understanding of when to apply different tools
and learn about a "heavy hammer" for screen scraping used by a
project for the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Attendees should bring a laptop, if possible, to try the examples
and optionally take notes.

http://svn.asheesh.org/svn/public/20082009/pycon-proposal.rst


Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python.
tonight's Newbie Nugget: Code Coverage Basics
by Benjamin Sargeant


NEW LOCATION FOR JANUARY 8, 2009
The Tech Museum of Innovation
201 South Market Street
San Jose, CA 95113
ROOM: "Large Group Meeting Room", which is on the right
as one enters the building from the Park Street entrance.
NOTE: doors close to stragglers at 8 PM
No badges or registration are required.
You may come early.
Those interested in seeing the Leonardo exhibit may get
discount coupons, contact Rob Stephenson (rstephenson at thetech.org)

Parking and transport information can be found at
http://www.thetech.org/info/directions/


BayPIGgies meeting information is available at
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone


------------------------ Agenda ------------------------

..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements,
any first-minute announcements.


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................

Newbie Nugget Code Coverage by Benjamin Sargeant


Note that Tech Museum doors will not allow late-comers after 8:00 PM
..... 7:45 PM to 8:45 PM ................

Scrape the Web: Strategies for programming websites that don't expect it
by Asheesh Laroia


Note that the meeting ends promptly at 9 PM.
..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics
the announcers are interested in.

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up
individually on the announcements and other topics of
interest.

Note that the meeting ends promptly at 9 PM.





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  5 15:38:36 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 15:38:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051456520.9080@sf.creativecommons.org>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051456520.9080@sf.creativecommons.org>
Message-ID: <20090105233836.GK11116@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):

> I was going to make suggestions, but then I thought:
> Rick will say everything I will.
> 
> So I waited, and now Rick has again impressed me with the sanity and 
> referencing of his analysis. Cheers!

Well, thank you indeed!

One point of clarification, to my earlier post:  The term "joe account",
if you look it up, is defined as "account with the password set the same
as the username".  One gathers that there might have been some eponymous
Joseph with username "joe" who found password "joe" easiest to remember.

However, what I really meant was an extension of that concept:  I meant
"account with easily guessable password", not just password literally
the same as username.  The scripts that roam the Internet attempting
to brute-force anything that looks like an sshd work based on lists of
plausible, common passwords to attempt with a related list of plausible,
common usernames.

> The way I'd phrase one point is: Your time spent fiddling with iptables 
> here is probably time wasted, as per his hotel break-in analogy.

Right.  

The only think I try to do on my own iptables setup is "bogon filtering"
-- rejecting packets with not-valid IPs for the side of the network they
arrive on.  I try not to rely on hostaccess (/etc/hosts.allow,
/etc/hosts.deny) blocking, either.

Why?  Because, if a process is vulnerable to attack, it's smarter to
either not run it at all or not expose it to _any_ network.  I therefore
concentrate my effort on making sure attacks cannot _succeed_, instead
of trying to surround my machine with a magic moat.

The only exception is that leafnode, which I run for locally defined
NNTP newsgroups, has no capability for access control, which means by
itself it would be vulnerable to "comment spam" via remote NNTP.  So, 
I use /etc/hosts.allow to permit NNTP connections _only_ from IP
addresses of people (like Daniel Gimpelevich) who've requested it, and
have this stuff in /etc/hosts.deny to block all others:

leafnode: ALL
news: ALL
nntp: ALL

(Only one of those is needed, but I was too lazy to figure out which
one.)




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  5 16:00:46 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:00:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>


   rick! i've been thinking of you rather a lot lately. 
thanks for your reply. briefly: 

   we took the box out and put a new, well--different, 
one in and rebuilt with ubuntu server 8.10. as The 
Cracked Box was ubuntu server 7.10 and we'd only 
started putting things on it, i didn't bother to 
reclaim data. and anyway, doing it from scratch will 
be good practice and won't have some of the stupid 
stuff we'd had on The Cracked Box. 
   no, the cracker did not get root access (not that 
it matters, as the box and all its files is sitting 
"over there" in the corner). 

   i made sure there are no well-known user accounts 
on The New Box and that as many as possible (e.g. 
daemon accounts) have /bin/false or some such. 
   (i did make a user account that has /usr/bin/yes 
as its "shell", and that works great! the screen of 
the person logging in as that user gets repeated 
lines with the 'y' character on it until they hit 
CTL-C or some such. "fixed the vulnerability" == 
removed The Cracked Box and ensured there are no 
similar accounts on The New Box.) 

   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one 
that copies absolutely everything from certain 
directories each night is inelegant. 

   we recognize that the growing /var/log/auth.log file 
represents doorknob tests, it's unnerving, possibly 
educational. and the big number of iptables rules seems 
to have no effect: maybe we've learned that lesson, too. 

   there's nothing much that's worth defending other than 
the use of the box itself, but that's worth defending. 
   i've manually gone over many filesystems on many boxes 
over the last years looking for directories with funny 
names beginning with the '.' character and perhaps one 
or more whitespace characters. it's a tedious job but 
kind of suits me at times. 
   there are only three humans that may log into the box, 
so password enforcement, for now, can be verbal abuse 
and stern reminders. i'll have to get pam's cracklib 
working. 

   the only threat model that i can make out is that some 
cracker gets through the sshd door and does something: 
* puts on a root kit 
* puts in tools that support a bot net 
* other (can't think of what) 
   we will have a web server running, and i'm sure i'll 
have lots of new lessons to learn with that. got any httpd 
threat models? (all threat model news is welcome.) 

   i will re-read and re-re-read your email and likely 
have questions. 
many thanks, 
jim 



On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 14:37 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
> 
> >    hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers: 
> 
> Hmm, I think you've already somewhat gone amiss with your (implied)
> mental model:  In general, taking an already-built *ix system as a
> given, fixed thing and then asking how you can "defend" it is a losing
> strategy.  Instead, you should ask yourself what threats against the
> machine are worth worrying about, and how to do some combination of the
> following concerning them:  prevention, detection, damage reduction,
> defence in depth, hardening, identification of the attackers, and
> recovery.  A big part of that should be re-examining the basic contents
> and design of the entire system.  But you have to start with assessing
> and understanding threat models, a point I'll return to, below.
> 
> Some guy I shave once wrote in an IDG article
> (http://www.itworld.com/print/36437):
> 
>    Ozancin's talk was fairly comprehensive and typical of such security
>    talks in its emphasis: it focused almost entirely on prevention and
>    detection.
> 
>    Prevention and detection are, of course, very good things, but
>    ideally they should be part of a better-rounded effort at risk
>    assessment and management. That should include damage reduction (what
>    is at risk?), defence in depth (how can we avoid having all our eggs
>    in one basket?), hardening (e.g., jumpering the SCSI drives read-only
>    for some filesystems, and altering Ethernet hardware to make
>    promiscuous mode impossible), identification of the attackers, and
>    recovery from security incidents. Explicit security policies,
>    security auditing, the design and testing of backup systems, automatic
>    and manual log analysis, handling of dialup access, physical security
>    for the network, the special problems posed by laptop users, security
>    training and documentation, and disaster recovery and costing are
>    necessary parts of such an effort.
> 
> 
> 
> >    we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy 
> > IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end 
> > and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which 
> > is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10. 
> >    crackers regularly knock on the door. we've 
> > implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we 
> > think they should. for example: 
> > 
> > we have a rule (one of many similar) 
> > -A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
> > --src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
> > --dport 22 -j DROP 
> > 
> > iptables -L shows 
> > DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
> > 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh 
> > 
> > and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts 
> > for a variety of user names from 
> > 124.93.200.34 
> 
> You're impliedly classifying this as a problem.  I question whether it's
> actually a threat in any meaningful sense, even though:  Any box exposed
> to Internet traffic on any port is going to get probed, many, many times
> a day.  As part of that, anyone running sshd will get the Internet
> equivalent of twisting the doorknob, which is basically what you've
> described above, many, many times each and every day.
> 
> For analogy's sake, let's say you visit a nice city and stay in a hotel.
> You go out, but carelessly leave your room door unlocked.  When you
> return, you've been burglarised.  
> 
> Dismaying, to be sure.  However, is it appropriate to go shopping for
> complex door-management hardware?  Wouldn't it be smarter, understanding
> as you do the threat model of people twisting hotel doorknobs and
> burglarising rooms that have been carelessly left unlocked, to just not
> leave your door unlocked in the future?
> 
> In the case of *ix systems, there are system cracklibs, i.e., the system
> can and should insist that people use strong passwords whenever they run
> /usr/bin/passwd.[1]  the /etc/pam.d/common-password PAM configuration
> file controls this.  You probably have something like this, there:
> 
> 
>   # /etc/pam.d/common-password - password-related modules common to all
>   # services
>   #
>   # This file is included from other service-specific PAM config files,
>   # and should contain a list of modules that define  the services to be
>   # used to change user passwords.  The default is pam_unix
> 
>   # The "nullok" option allows users to change an empty password, else
>   # empty passwords are treated as locked accounts.
>   #
>   # (Add `md5' after the module name to enable MD5 passwords)
>   #
>   # The "obscure" option replaces the old `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB' option in
>   # login.defs. Also the "min" and "max" options enforce the length of the
>   # new password.
> 
>   password   required   pam_unix.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 md5
> 
>   # Alternate strength checking for password. Note that this
>   # requires the libpam-cracklib package to be installed.
>   # You will need to comment out the password line above and
>   # uncomment the next two in order to use this.
>   # (Replaces the `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB', `CRACKLIB_DICTPATH')
>   #
>   # password required       pam_cracklib.so retry=3 minlen=6 difok=3
>   # password required       pam_unix.so use_authtok nullok md5
> 
> As the system says, you probably want to install the libpam-cracklib
> package and uncomment the two lines in the above file, to enable it.
> This page has full details:
> http://www.deer-run.com/~hal/sysadmin/pam_cracklib.html
> 
> >    the box has been cracked once already, we fixed 
> > that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known 
> > default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and 
> > password, which was probably a well-known default). 
> 
> So, you did something very unwise and got caught napping.  Don't feel
> too bad; in 1995, I (similarly) made the mistake of assuming the Debian
> AWstats package has security-safe defaults, and got my Web front page
> defaced.  At the time, I was so surprised and panicked that, in
> response, I (incorrectly) assumed the server was root-compromised and
> rebuilt it from scratch, unnecessarily.[2]  See:
> http://linuxmafia.com/news.html
> 
> By the way, your above wording raises a couple of concerns:
> 
> 1.  Does the term "cracked" in this context entail _root_ compromise?
> I.e., did the intruder merely enter the system masquerading as a
> legitimate user ("ubuntu")[3] whose password he/she guessed -- or, more
> likely, whose automated script guessed that password -- or did the
> intruder do that _and_ then escalate privilege to root-user level or
> equivalent?
> 
> That, you see, is a really vital question.  If you don't know, you
> really, really need to find out, before doing anything else.  If you
> still cannot tell after examination, then the safest course of action is
> to assume root compromise and do a ground-up system rebuild[4], which is
> of course painful.  The experience of that level of pain can be, in
> itself, instructive.  In 2005, it taught me to be skeptical about the
> security of Web apps, for example.  ;->  (Eventually, it also taught me
> a few pointers about how a set of system Web pages might be compromised
> without system _root_ compromise, but at that point I'd already slightly
> overreacted and done a full rebuild.  Erring on the side of pessimism in 
> such matters is unfortunate but probably wiser than the opposite error.)
> 
> 2.  If your system _did_ get root-compromised, does your phrase "fixed
> the vulnerability" mean you did a ground-up system rebuild?  Because,
> after root compromise, you really have no alternative but to shut the
> system down, secure a copy of the datafiles only, grab an archive set
> of the system configuration files and user dotfiles for reference only
> but not re-use, rebuild software from trusted media, reconstruct system
> configuration files manually referring to the archive set of old
> conffiles, restore users' data but not their dotfile directories or
> executables, set all new passwords, study the old configuration to
> ensure that similar threats are not a problem, post a system bulletin
> explaining what happened, and convey to all users their new passwords
> out-of-band.
> 
> If you do anything less than that (following root compromise), you
> haven't fixed the problem.
> 
> I stress the above because I've noticed that many newcomers to *ix
> aren't taking that situation seriously.  They either don't even try to
> determine, following a security incident, whether the system is now root
> compromised, and just hope for the best, or seriously think that a
> root-compromised system can be "fixed" through some means short of a
> ground-up rebuild.
> 
> And, anyway, _who_ created "default user ubuntu"?  I really doubt that a
> default Ubuntu install creates any such "joe account", as that would be
> a ghastly design error.
> 
> I suspect a system-local human screwup, e.g., someone with admin
> privilege deciding that it'd be a good idea to have login account
> "ubuntu" with password "ubuntu".  
> 
> Basically, your enforced system policy should preclude creation of "joe
> accounts".  Any.
> 
> 
> 
> >    ideas we have include 
> 
> If you'll pardon my airing an opinion based on long years observing such
> discussions, most users' "ideas", and many programmers' ideas, about
> security are bad ones.  
> 
> The root cause of that badness is failure to start with threat models:
> That term refers to a tracing out of a particular potential threat to a
> system as to mechanism, severity, what's at risk, credibility (is it
> even worth worrying about?), and so on.  You cannot rationally start
> taking measures until you understand what you're taking measures
> against, and why, and how.
> 
> And, to understand threats against your system, you must first and
> foremost understand your system.
> 
> Many users' "ideas" boil down ultimately to little more than technophile 
> gadget-freakery, throwing additional software semi-randomly at poorly
> comprehended threats, and thereby making the system more difficult to
> understand and its behaviour more difficult to predict.  Many of those
> "ideas" also, themselves, give rise to _new_ threats against the system
> (often but not always denial of service threats).
> 
> Avoidable complexity is, in general, bad from several perspectives
> including security.  And most users' instinct, when you ask them for
> security suggestions, is to add additional layers of software, which of
> course means greater complexity.
> 
> 
> > * mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting 
> > /var/log/, which is a separate mount point)
> 
> This is useful, but you should carefully consider why, e.g., what
> purposes does it serve and not serve.  You also might, in a similar
> sense, set some mount _options_ for specific parts of the file tree,
> limiting what can be done with/to them.
> 
> Here's the partition map for the current, 11-year-old linuxmafia.com
> box[4]:
> 
> 
> # cat /etc/fstab
> # /etc/fstab: static file system information.
> #
> # <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
> proc            /proc           proc    nosuid          0       0
> /dev/sda5       /               ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
> /dev/sda1       /boot           ext2    nodev,nosuid,noexec,ro 0       2
> /dev/sdb1       /home           ext3    nodev,nosuid    0       2
> /dev/sdb5       /tmp            ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> /dev/sdb8       /usr            ext2    nodev,ro        0       2
> /dev/sda9       /usr/local      ext3    defaults        0       2
> /dev/sdb7       /var            ext3    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> /dev/sda8       /var/log        ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> /dev/sda7       none            swap    sw              0       0
> /dev/sdb6       none            swap    sw              0       0
> /dev/fd0        /media/floppy0  auto    rw,user,noauto  0       0
> /dev/sda6       /mnt/recovery   ext2    rw,noauto       0       2
> 
> 
> # fdisk -l /dev/sda
> 
> Disk /dev/sda: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
> 64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sda1   *           1          95       97264   83  Linux
> /dev/sda2              96        7369     7448576    5  Extended
> /dev/sda5              96        1049      976880   83  Linux
> /dev/sda6            1050        1526      488432   83  Linux
> /dev/sda7            1527        1647      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
> /dev/sda8            1648        2601      976880   83  Linux
> /dev/sda9            2602        7369     4882416   83  Linux
> 
> 
> # fdisk -l /dev/sdb
> 
> Disk /dev/sdb: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
> 64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes
> 
>    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/sdb1               1         954      976880   83  Linux
> /dev/sdb2             955        6129     5299200    5  Extended
> /dev/sdb5             955        1240      292848   83  Linux
> /dev/sdb6            1241        1361      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
> /dev/sdb7            1362        3268     1952752   83  Linux
> /dev/sdb8            3269        6129     2929648   83  Linux
> 
> 
> Now, some of that's a bit antiquated, but you might find some useful
> ideas in there -- including noting what is _not_ done.  I found out
> through trial and error, for example, that it's a bad idea to set the
> noexec mount option for /tmp on an ongoing basis, because package
> postinst scripts get run from there.  (Which is a pity, since otherwise
> one would not want executables to run, there.)  I am tempted to set
> noexec on /tmp, and create an "apt" hook to remount it temporarily to
> allow the exec bit during package operations only, and then remount
> afterwards.  (I already have such a hook for the /usr read-only mount.)
> 
> What purposes it does serve:  The read-only mounts protect against the
> biggest single threat to your system, which is _you_, the sysadmin.
> That is, I (and processes I choose to run) cannot accidentally clobber
> /usr or /boot as the root user, because I must remount those filesystems
> read-write before I can screw with them.
> 
> Also, there are performance advantage to some of the options and
> techniques mentioned, e.g., jettisoning the atime stamp on filesystems
> that don't need it, and eschewing the overhead of an ext3 journal on
> filesystems that either are disposable (/var/log, /tmp) or are normally
> read-only (/usr, /boot).
> 
> What purposes it does not serve:  A non-automated intruder with
> root-level access would not be meaningfully impeded by any of the
> partitioning and mount-option controls cited above, because, having root
> access, he/she can remount anything as desired, trivially.
> 
> However, some of the read-only and restricted options cited above
> _could_ very well sabotage many automated attacks if, e.g., in a moment
> of weakness I deployed a vulnerable PHP app.  Consider, for example, the
> Lupper worm of November 2005, as I described it in
> http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus5 :  If
> triggered remotely via one of the criminally vulnerable target Web
> codebases, the remote attack used system calls to run wget, and fetch an
> exploit binary to /tmp, and then run that executable.  Setting noexec on
> /tmp (which I currently do not do, but am considering again) would
> therefore prevent the exploit phase of that canned attack.
> 
> 
> 
> > * have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22 
> > (and change iptables rules accordingly) 
> 
> This is a very popular, classic bad idea:  It's one of the canonical
> examples of "security through obscurity", and really gains you nothing
> worth having, when seen in reasonable context.
> 
> linuxmafia.com's sshd has been on the Internet since the invention of
> ssh, _on_ port 22 (along with several others, so that particular users
> can have ingress despite stupid corporate firewalls on their end that
> block their connection to outbound port 22), and gets doorknob-twisting 
> checks for "joe accounts" from random locations on the Internet many
> times each day.  No security compromise has ever resulted, nor would I
> expect any, because I can do the math.
> 
> It's simply not possible to hit up my sshd with a rapid enough barrage
> of guessed passwords even for known logins such as "rick", to have any
> reasonable likelihood of success in a reasonable time span (like, years).
> Even if it were, I'd notice my system falling over because /var/log/*
> had overfilled, long before an attacker had even a tiny chance of
> success through such a "dictionary attack" on my sshd.
> 
> Thus, with all respect to Prof. Verma and Tom Haddon, I deliberately
> eschew not only running sshd only on non-standard ports but also things
> like DenyHosts and Fail2ban, as pointless because they attempt to solve
> the wrong problem.  The correct problem to solve is not "How do I
> prevent continual doorknob-twisting?", but rather "How do I ensure that
> doorknob-twisting doesn't work?"
> 
> It doesn't work on linuxmafia.com because the system has no "joe
> accounts", and because dictionary attacks against an sshd statistically
> have no prayer of working unless such accounts are present.
> 
> > * have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor 
> > the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and 
> > probably shutting down the box upon discovering such. 
> > * /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses 
> > that crackers have used on us. 
> 
> "Some IP addresses that crackers have used on us"?  C'mon, that's just
> dumb.  You have no hope of keeping up, and they have an effectively
> unlimited supply of IP addresses, given that many of them are using
> zombified MS-Windows desktop boxes as attack vectors.
> 
> You really should consider spending the same amount of effort ensuring
> that there's nothing on the local system that easily attackable, instead
> of trying to wall off potential outside points of origin for attacks
> against local vulnerabilities.
> 
> 
> > we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense and hope some
> > of you will chime in with opinions about our ideas as well as ideas
> > we haven't thought of. 
> 
> OK.  Start over.
> 
> The ideas you've started with are steps in the wrong direction.
> 
> Make sure you understand your system, its weak points, and its probable
> avenues of attack.  Make sure you've addressed _all_ aspects of the
> problem:  prevention, detection, damage reduction, defence in depth,
> hardening, identification of the attackers, and recovery.
> 
> Some stuff from the guy I shave:
> 
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/linuxmafia.com-backup.html
> (You _do_ have a planned-out backup/restore routine, right?)
> 
> http://linuxgazette.net/issue98/moen.html
> http://www.itworld.com/print/36437
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
> http://linuxgazette.net/118/weatherwax.html#1
> 
> 
> [1] Note that this is not effective against users wielding root
> authority including root-equivalent privilege using sudo.
> 
> Also note that it doesn't preclude people using the same credentials on
> your system as they do elsewhere, which can lead to user-level breakin 
> via stealing of the credentials elsewhere.  Again, see
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
> (***COUGH*** shells.sourceforge.net ***COUGH***).
> 
> [2] Rebuilding from scratch means that you assume no executable or lib
> or configuration file or dotfile can any longer be trusted, because you
> estimate that a hostile party has gained root-user access and must
> assume he/she has subverted the system.  Everything else that's
> necessary to the task of rebuilding follows from that assumption.
> 
> [3] There really should not have been such a user.  A *ix system should
> not have "role" accounts:  You want individual accountability.  This
> general rule does not, however, rule out per-system-process usernames
> that the processes run as, such as postgres, bind, sshd, etc.  The
> latter should generally have their login shells set as /bin/false in
> /etc/passwd, so that they're not even theoretically possible as shell
> users.
> 
> [4] Well, the hardware's 11 years old.  I moved the site to that
> hardware around 6-7 years ago.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  5 16:07:20 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:07:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090105233836.GK11116@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051456520.9080@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090105233836.GK11116@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1231200440.7760.422.camel@jim-laptop>



   i've taken "joe account" to mean accounts with 
easy-to-guess user names, regardless of password, 
for given a valid user name, one (who's so inclined) 
can run some barrage of passwords and maybe get 
lucky). not the real definition, perhaps misguided, 
all comments are welcome. 


> I therefore 
> concentrate my effort on making sure attacks cannot 
> _succeed_, instead of trying to surround my machine 
> with a magic moat.

aha! truly enlightening, and a bright light at that. 




On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 15:38 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):
> 
> > I was going to make suggestions, but then I thought:
> > Rick will say everything I will.
> > 
> > So I waited, and now Rick has again impressed me with the sanity and 
> > referencing of his analysis. Cheers!
> 
> Well, thank you indeed!
> 
> One point of clarification, to my earlier post:  The term "joe account",
> if you look it up, is defined as "account with the password set the same
> as the username".  One gathers that there might have been some eponymous
> Joseph with username "joe" who found password "joe" easiest to remember.
> 
> However, what I really meant was an extension of that concept:  I meant
> "account with easily guessable password", not just password literally
> the same as username.  The scripts that roam the Internet attempting
> to brute-force anything that looks like an sshd work based on lists of
> plausible, common passwords to attempt with a related list of plausible,
> common usernames.
> 
> > The way I'd phrase one point is: Your time spent fiddling with iptables 
> > here is probably time wasted, as per his hotel break-in analogy.
> 
> Right.  
> 
> The only think I try to do on my own iptables setup is "bogon filtering"
> -- rejecting packets with not-valid IPs for the side of the network they
> arrive on.  I try not to rely on hostaccess (/etc/hosts.allow,
> /etc/hosts.deny) blocking, either.
> 
> Why?  Because, if a process is vulnerable to attack, it's smarter to
> either not run it at all or not expose it to _any_ network.  I therefore
> concentrate my effort on making sure attacks cannot _succeed_, instead
> of trying to surround my machine with a magic moat.
> 
> The only exception is that leafnode, which I run for locally defined
> NNTP newsgroups, has no capability for access control, which means by
> itself it would be vulnerable to "comment spam" via remote NNTP.  So, 
> I use /etc/hosts.allow to permit NNTP connections _only_ from IP
> addresses of people (like Daniel Gimpelevich) who've requested it, and
> have this stuff in /etc/hosts.deny to block all others:
> 
> leafnode: ALL
> news: ALL
> nntp: ALL
> 
> (Only one of those is needed, but I was too lazy to figure out which
> one.)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From toya at linefeed.org  Mon Jan  5 16:12:10 2009
From: toya at linefeed.org (toya)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:12:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090106001210.GS80155@linefeed.org>


Hi jim, not sure if I am following it right - if not sorry about it -
here are some suggestions:

1. Set up a Denyhost - so it will drop any sshd that you dont want to 
2. Tell the users who has ssh to the box to use sshkeys - this will 
   increase the security when the log in to the box

bye,
toya



Em Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 04:00:46PM -0800, jim escreveu:
> 
>    rick! i've been thinking of you rather a lot lately. 
> thanks for your reply. briefly: 
> 
>    we took the box out and put a new, well--different, 
> one in and rebuilt with ubuntu server 8.10. as The 
> Cracked Box was ubuntu server 7.10 and we'd only 
> started putting things on it, i didn't bother to 
> reclaim data. and anyway, doing it from scratch will 
> be good practice and won't have some of the stupid 
> stuff we'd had on The Cracked Box. 
>    no, the cracker did not get root access (not that 
> it matters, as the box and all its files is sitting 
> "over there" in the corner). 
> 
>    i made sure there are no well-known user accounts 
> on The New Box and that as many as possible (e.g. 
> daemon accounts) have /bin/false or some such. 
>    (i did make a user account that has /usr/bin/yes 
> as its "shell", and that works great! the screen of 
> the person logging in as that user gets repeated 
> lines with the 'y' character on it until they hit 
> CTL-C or some such. "fixed the vulnerability" == 
> removed The Cracked Box and ensured there are no 
> similar accounts on The New Box.) 
> 
>    i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one 
> that copies absolutely everything from certain 
> directories each night is inelegant. 
> 
>    we recognize that the growing /var/log/auth.log file 
> represents doorknob tests, it's unnerving, possibly 
> educational. and the big number of iptables rules seems 
> to have no effect: maybe we've learned that lesson, too. 
> 
>    there's nothing much that's worth defending other than 
> the use of the box itself, but that's worth defending. 
>    i've manually gone over many filesystems on many boxes 
> over the last years looking for directories with funny 
> names beginning with the '.' character and perhaps one 
> or more whitespace characters. it's a tedious job but 
> kind of suits me at times. 
>    there are only three humans that may log into the box, 
> so password enforcement, for now, can be verbal abuse 
> and stern reminders. i'll have to get pam's cracklib 
> working. 
> 
>    the only threat model that i can make out is that some 
> cracker gets through the sshd door and does something: 
> * puts on a root kit 
> * puts in tools that support a bot net 
> * other (can't think of what) 
>    we will have a web server running, and i'm sure i'll 
> have lots of new lessons to learn with that. got any httpd 
> threat models? (all threat model news is welcome.) 
> 
>    i will re-read and re-re-read your email and likely 
> have questions. 
> many thanks, 
> jim 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 14:37 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> > Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
> > 
> > >    hoping for suggestions to defend against hackers: 
> > 
> > Hmm, I think you've already somewhat gone amiss with your (implied)
> > mental model:  In general, taking an already-built *ix system as a
> > given, fixed thing and then asking how you can "defend" it is a losing
> > strategy.  Instead, you should ask yourself what threats against the
> > machine are worth worrying about, and how to do some combination of the
> > following concerning them:  prevention, detection, damage reduction,
> > defence in depth, hardening, identification of the attackers, and
> > recovery.  A big part of that should be re-examining the basic contents
> > and design of the entire system.  But you have to start with assessing
> > and understanding threat models, a point I'll return to, below.
> > 
> > Some guy I shave once wrote in an IDG article
> > (http://www.itworld.com/print/36437):
> > 
> >    Ozancin's talk was fairly comprehensive and typical of such security
> >    talks in its emphasis: it focused almost entirely on prevention and
> >    detection.
> > 
> >    Prevention and detection are, of course, very good things, but
> >    ideally they should be part of a better-rounded effort at risk
> >    assessment and management. That should include damage reduction (what
> >    is at risk?), defence in depth (how can we avoid having all our eggs
> >    in one basket?), hardening (e.g., jumpering the SCSI drives read-only
> >    for some filesystems, and altering Ethernet hardware to make
> >    promiscuous mode impossible), identification of the attackers, and
> >    recovery from security incidents. Explicit security policies,
> >    security auditing, the design and testing of backup systems, automatic
> >    and manual log analysis, handling of dialup access, physical security
> >    for the network, the special problems posed by laptop users, security
> >    training and documentation, and disaster recovery and costing are
> >    necessary parts of such an effort.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >    we've got a box on the internet using a speakeasy 
> > > IP address. a linksys home router sees the front end 
> > > and NATs traffic for ssh and http to the box, which 
> > > is a node on the LAN running ubuntu server 8.10. 
> > >    crackers regularly knock on the door. we've 
> > > implemented IP tables, though they don't work as we 
> > > think they should. for example: 
> > > 
> > > we have a rule (one of many similar) 
> > > -A INPUT -p tcp -m iprange \
> > > --src-range 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 \
> > > --dport 22 -j DROP 
> > > 
> > > iptables -L shows 
> > > DROP  tcp  --  anywhere  anywhere  source IP range \
> > > 110.0.0.0-126.255.255.255 tcp dpt:ssh 
> > > 
> > > and yet /var/log/auth.log shows ssh login attempts 
> > > for a variety of user names from 
> > > 124.93.200.34 
> > 
> > You're impliedly classifying this as a problem.  I question whether it's
> > actually a threat in any meaningful sense, even though:  Any box exposed
> > to Internet traffic on any port is going to get probed, many, many times
> > a day.  As part of that, anyone running sshd will get the Internet
> > equivalent of twisting the doorknob, which is basically what you've
> > described above, many, many times each and every day.
> > 
> > For analogy's sake, let's say you visit a nice city and stay in a hotel.
> > You go out, but carelessly leave your room door unlocked.  When you
> > return, you've been burglarised.  
> > 
> > Dismaying, to be sure.  However, is it appropriate to go shopping for
> > complex door-management hardware?  Wouldn't it be smarter, understanding
> > as you do the threat model of people twisting hotel doorknobs and
> > burglarising rooms that have been carelessly left unlocked, to just not
> > leave your door unlocked in the future?
> > 
> > In the case of *ix systems, there are system cracklibs, i.e., the system
> > can and should insist that people use strong passwords whenever they run
> > /usr/bin/passwd.[1]  the /etc/pam.d/common-password PAM configuration
> > file controls this.  You probably have something like this, there:
> > 
> > 
> >   # /etc/pam.d/common-password - password-related modules common to all
> >   # services
> >   #
> >   # This file is included from other service-specific PAM config files,
> >   # and should contain a list of modules that define  the services to be
> >   # used to change user passwords.  The default is pam_unix
> > 
> >   # The "nullok" option allows users to change an empty password, else
> >   # empty passwords are treated as locked accounts.
> >   #
> >   # (Add `md5' after the module name to enable MD5 passwords)
> >   #
> >   # The "obscure" option replaces the old `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB' option in
> >   # login.defs. Also the "min" and "max" options enforce the length of the
> >   # new password.
> > 
> >   password   required   pam_unix.so nullok obscure min=4 max=8 md5
> > 
> >   # Alternate strength checking for password. Note that this
> >   # requires the libpam-cracklib package to be installed.
> >   # You will need to comment out the password line above and
> >   # uncomment the next two in order to use this.
> >   # (Replaces the `OBSCURE_CHECKS_ENAB', `CRACKLIB_DICTPATH')
> >   #
> >   # password required       pam_cracklib.so retry=3 minlen=6 difok=3
> >   # password required       pam_unix.so use_authtok nullok md5
> > 
> > As the system says, you probably want to install the libpam-cracklib
> > package and uncomment the two lines in the above file, to enable it.
> > This page has full details:
> > http://www.deer-run.com/~hal/sysadmin/pam_cracklib.html
> > 
> > >    the box has been cracked once already, we fixed 
> > > that vulnerability (i didn't think about a well-known 
> > > default user, ubuntu: someone guessed that user and 
> > > password, which was probably a well-known default). 
> > 
> > So, you did something very unwise and got caught napping.  Don't feel
> > too bad; in 1995, I (similarly) made the mistake of assuming the Debian
> > AWstats package has security-safe defaults, and got my Web front page
> > defaced.  At the time, I was so surprised and panicked that, in
> > response, I (incorrectly) assumed the server was root-compromised and
> > rebuilt it from scratch, unnecessarily.[2]  See:
> > http://linuxmafia.com/news.html
> > 
> > By the way, your above wording raises a couple of concerns:
> > 
> > 1.  Does the term "cracked" in this context entail _root_ compromise?
> > I.e., did the intruder merely enter the system masquerading as a
> > legitimate user ("ubuntu")[3] whose password he/she guessed -- or, more
> > likely, whose automated script guessed that password -- or did the
> > intruder do that _and_ then escalate privilege to root-user level or
> > equivalent?
> > 
> > That, you see, is a really vital question.  If you don't know, you
> > really, really need to find out, before doing anything else.  If you
> > still cannot tell after examination, then the safest course of action is
> > to assume root compromise and do a ground-up system rebuild[4], which is
> > of course painful.  The experience of that level of pain can be, in
> > itself, instructive.  In 2005, it taught me to be skeptical about the
> > security of Web apps, for example.  ;->  (Eventually, it also taught me
> > a few pointers about how a set of system Web pages might be compromised
> > without system _root_ compromise, but at that point I'd already slightly
> > overreacted and done a full rebuild.  Erring on the side of pessimism in 
> > such matters is unfortunate but probably wiser than the opposite error.)
> > 
> > 2.  If your system _did_ get root-compromised, does your phrase "fixed
> > the vulnerability" mean you did a ground-up system rebuild?  Because,
> > after root compromise, you really have no alternative but to shut the
> > system down, secure a copy of the datafiles only, grab an archive set
> > of the system configuration files and user dotfiles for reference only
> > but not re-use, rebuild software from trusted media, reconstruct system
> > configuration files manually referring to the archive set of old
> > conffiles, restore users' data but not their dotfile directories or
> > executables, set all new passwords, study the old configuration to
> > ensure that similar threats are not a problem, post a system bulletin
> > explaining what happened, and convey to all users their new passwords
> > out-of-band.
> > 
> > If you do anything less than that (following root compromise), you
> > haven't fixed the problem.
> > 
> > I stress the above because I've noticed that many newcomers to *ix
> > aren't taking that situation seriously.  They either don't even try to
> > determine, following a security incident, whether the system is now root
> > compromised, and just hope for the best, or seriously think that a
> > root-compromised system can be "fixed" through some means short of a
> > ground-up rebuild.
> > 
> > And, anyway, _who_ created "default user ubuntu"?  I really doubt that a
> > default Ubuntu install creates any such "joe account", as that would be
> > a ghastly design error.
> > 
> > I suspect a system-local human screwup, e.g., someone with admin
> > privilege deciding that it'd be a good idea to have login account
> > "ubuntu" with password "ubuntu".  
> > 
> > Basically, your enforced system policy should preclude creation of "joe
> > accounts".  Any.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > >    ideas we have include 
> > 
> > If you'll pardon my airing an opinion based on long years observing such
> > discussions, most users' "ideas", and many programmers' ideas, about
> > security are bad ones.  
> > 
> > The root cause of that badness is failure to start with threat models:
> > That term refers to a tracing out of a particular potential threat to a
> > system as to mechanism, severity, what's at risk, credibility (is it
> > even worth worrying about?), and so on.  You cannot rationally start
> > taking measures until you understand what you're taking measures
> > against, and why, and how.
> > 
> > And, to understand threats against your system, you must first and
> > foremost understand your system.
> > 
> > Many users' "ideas" boil down ultimately to little more than technophile 
> > gadget-freakery, throwing additional software semi-randomly at poorly
> > comprehended threats, and thereby making the system more difficult to
> > understand and its behaviour more difficult to predict.  Many of those
> > "ideas" also, themselves, give rise to _new_ threats against the system
> > (often but not always denial of service threats).
> > 
> > Avoidable complexity is, in general, bad from several perspectives
> > including security.  And most users' instinct, when you ask them for
> > security suggestions, is to add additional layers of software, which of
> > course means greater complexity.
> > 
> > 
> > > * mount most filesystems in read-only mode (excepting 
> > > /var/log/, which is a separate mount point)
> > 
> > This is useful, but you should carefully consider why, e.g., what
> > purposes does it serve and not serve.  You also might, in a similar
> > sense, set some mount _options_ for specific parts of the file tree,
> > limiting what can be done with/to them.
> > 
> > Here's the partition map for the current, 11-year-old linuxmafia.com
> > box[4]:
> > 
> > 
> > # cat /etc/fstab
> > # /etc/fstab: static file system information.
> > #
> > # <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
> > proc            /proc           proc    nosuid          0       0
> > /dev/sda5       /               ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1
> > /dev/sda1       /boot           ext2    nodev,nosuid,noexec,ro 0       2
> > /dev/sdb1       /home           ext3    nodev,nosuid    0       2
> > /dev/sdb5       /tmp            ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> > /dev/sdb8       /usr            ext2    nodev,ro        0       2
> > /dev/sda9       /usr/local      ext3    defaults        0       2
> > /dev/sdb7       /var            ext3    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> > /dev/sda8       /var/log        ext2    noatime,nodev,nosuid 0       2
> > /dev/sda7       none            swap    sw              0       0
> > /dev/sdb6       none            swap    sw              0       0
> > /dev/fd0        /media/floppy0  auto    rw,user,noauto  0       0
> > /dev/sda6       /mnt/recovery   ext2    rw,noauto       0       2
> > 
> > 
> > # fdisk -l /dev/sda
> > 
> > Disk /dev/sda: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
> > 64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
> > Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes
> > 
> >    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> > /dev/sda1   *           1          95       97264   83  Linux
> > /dev/sda2              96        7369     7448576    5  Extended
> > /dev/sda5              96        1049      976880   83  Linux
> > /dev/sda6            1050        1526      488432   83  Linux
> > /dev/sda7            1527        1647      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
> > /dev/sda8            1648        2601      976880   83  Linux
> > /dev/sda9            2602        7369     4882416   83  Linux
> > 
> > 
> > # fdisk -l /dev/sdb
> > 
> > Disk /dev/sdb: 9105 MB, 9105024000 bytes
> > 64 heads, 32 sectors/track, 8683 cylinders
> > Units = cylinders of 2048 * 512 = 1048576 bytes
> > 
> >    Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
> > /dev/sdb1               1         954      976880   83  Linux
> > /dev/sdb2             955        6129     5299200    5  Extended
> > /dev/sdb5             955        1240      292848   83  Linux
> > /dev/sdb6            1241        1361      123888   82  Linux swap / Solaris
> > /dev/sdb7            1362        3268     1952752   83  Linux
> > /dev/sdb8            3269        6129     2929648   83  Linux
> > 
> > 
> > Now, some of that's a bit antiquated, but you might find some useful
> > ideas in there -- including noting what is _not_ done.  I found out
> > through trial and error, for example, that it's a bad idea to set the
> > noexec mount option for /tmp on an ongoing basis, because package
> > postinst scripts get run from there.  (Which is a pity, since otherwise
> > one would not want executables to run, there.)  I am tempted to set
> > noexec on /tmp, and create an "apt" hook to remount it temporarily to
> > allow the exec bit during package operations only, and then remount
> > afterwards.  (I already have such a hook for the /usr read-only mount.)
> > 
> > What purposes it does serve:  The read-only mounts protect against the
> > biggest single threat to your system, which is _you_, the sysadmin.
> > That is, I (and processes I choose to run) cannot accidentally clobber
> > /usr or /boot as the root user, because I must remount those filesystems
> > read-write before I can screw with them.
> > 
> > Also, there are performance advantage to some of the options and
> > techniques mentioned, e.g., jettisoning the atime stamp on filesystems
> > that don't need it, and eschewing the overhead of an ext3 journal on
> > filesystems that either are disposable (/var/log, /tmp) or are normally
> > read-only (/usr, /boot).
> > 
> > What purposes it does not serve:  A non-automated intruder with
> > root-level access would not be meaningfully impeded by any of the
> > partitioning and mount-option controls cited above, because, having root
> > access, he/she can remount anything as desired, trivially.
> > 
> > However, some of the read-only and restricted options cited above
> > _could_ very well sabotage many automated attacks if, e.g., in a moment
> > of weakness I deployed a vulnerable PHP app.  Consider, for example, the
> > Lupper worm of November 2005, as I described it in
> > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus5 :  If
> > triggered remotely via one of the criminally vulnerable target Web
> > codebases, the remote attack used system calls to run wget, and fetch an
> > exploit binary to /tmp, and then run that executable.  Setting noexec on
> > /tmp (which I currently do not do, but am considering again) would
> > therefore prevent the exploit phase of that canned attack.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > * have sshd listen on some upper port rather than 22 
> > > (and change iptables rules accordingly) 
> > 
> > This is a very popular, classic bad idea:  It's one of the canonical
> > examples of "security through obscurity", and really gains you nothing
> > worth having, when seen in reasonable context.
> > 
> > linuxmafia.com's sshd has been on the Internet since the invention of
> > ssh, _on_ port 22 (along with several others, so that particular users
> > can have ingress despite stupid corporate firewalls on their end that
> > block their connection to outbound port 22), and gets doorknob-twisting 
> > checks for "joe accounts" from random locations on the Internet many
> > times each day.  No security compromise has ever resulted, nor would I
> > expect any, because I can do the math.
> > 
> > It's simply not possible to hit up my sshd with a rapid enough barrage
> > of guessed passwords even for known logins such as "rick", to have any
> > reasonable likelihood of success in a reasonable time span (like, years).
> > Even if it were, I'd notice my system falling over because /var/log/*
> > had overfilled, long before an attacker had even a tiny chance of
> > success through such a "dictionary attack" on my sshd.
> > 
> > Thus, with all respect to Prof. Verma and Tom Haddon, I deliberately
> > eschew not only running sshd only on non-standard ports but also things
> > like DenyHosts and Fail2ban, as pointless because they attempt to solve
> > the wrong problem.  The correct problem to solve is not "How do I
> > prevent continual doorknob-twisting?", but rather "How do I ensure that
> > doorknob-twisting doesn't work?"
> > 
> > It doesn't work on linuxmafia.com because the system has no "joe
> > accounts", and because dictionary attacks against an sshd statistically
> > have no prayer of working unless such accounts are present.
> > 
> > > * have a cron job run every five minutes to monitor 
> > > the box, mainly checking for weird user activity and 
> > > probably shutting down the box upon discovering such. 
> > > * /etc/hosts.deny has ALL=PARANOID and some ip addresses 
> > > that crackers have used on us. 
> > 
> > "Some IP addresses that crackers have used on us"?  C'mon, that's just
> > dumb.  You have no hope of keeping up, and they have an effectively
> > unlimited supply of IP addresses, given that many of them are using
> > zombified MS-Windows desktop boxes as attack vectors.
> > 
> > You really should consider spending the same amount of effort ensuring
> > that there's nothing on the local system that easily attackable, instead
> > of trying to wall off potential outside points of origin for attacks
> > against local vulnerabilities.
> > 
> > 
> > > we're not happy with our ideas as a complete defense and hope some
> > > of you will chime in with opinions about our ideas as well as ideas
> > > we haven't thought of. 
> > 
> > OK.  Start over.
> > 
> > The ideas you've started with are steps in the wrong direction.
> > 
> > Make sure you understand your system, its weak points, and its probable
> > avenues of attack.  Make sure you've addressed _all_ aspects of the
> > problem:  prevention, detection, damage reduction, defence in depth,
> > hardening, identification of the attackers, and recovery.
> > 
> > Some stuff from the guy I shave:
> > 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/linuxmafia.com-backup.html
> > (You _do_ have a planned-out backup/restore routine, right?)
> > 
> > http://linuxgazette.net/issue98/moen.html
> > http://www.itworld.com/print/36437
> > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
> > http://linuxgazette.net/118/weatherwax.html#1
> > 
> > 
> > [1] Note that this is not effective against users wielding root
> > authority including root-equivalent privilege using sudo.
> > 
> > Also note that it doesn't preclude people using the same credentials on
> > your system as they do elsewhere, which can lead to user-level breakin 
> > via stealing of the credentials elsewhere.  Again, see
> > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Security/breakin-without-remote-vulnerability.html
> > (***COUGH*** shells.sourceforge.net ***COUGH***).
> > 
> > [2] Rebuilding from scratch means that you assume no executable or lib
> > or configuration file or dotfile can any longer be trusted, because you
> > estimate that a hostile party has gained root-user access and must
> > assume he/she has subverted the system.  Everything else that's
> > necessary to the task of rebuilding follows from that assumption.
> > 
> > [3] There really should not have been such a user.  A *ix system should
> > not have "role" accounts:  You want individual accountability.  This
> > general rule does not, however, rule out per-system-process usernames
> > that the processes run as, such as postgres, bind, sshd, etc.  The
> > latter should generally have their login shells set as /bin/false in
> > /etc/passwd, so that they're not even theoretically possible as shell
> > users.
> > 
> > [4] Well, the hardware's 11 years old.  I moved the site to that
> > hardware around 6-7 years ago.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  5 17:05:23 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:05:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    no, the cracker did not get root access (not that 
> it matters, as the box and all its files is sitting 
> "over there" in the corner). 

Ah, well, if the intruder just came in and screwed around, that's not a
big problem.  (Annoying, yes.)  Did you discover the intrusion because,
e.g., the user changed / created some Web pages?  Or started generating
lots of mail?  

Although in theory, intruders can have disparate motives, most often
it's because they're spammers or Web site defacers.  Or they're
intending to abuse your machine to participate in massed DDoS attacks
on target sites, or be a passthrough site or advertised public site for
warez, or something like that.

>    i made sure there are no well-known user accounts 
> on The New Box and that as many as possible (e.g. 
> daemon accounts) have /bin/false or some such. 

I used to worry about this.  Turns out that packages pretty much reliably
get this right:  Either the login shell is set to something innocuous
like /bin/false _or_ direct login is disabled, e.g., by prefacing the
password field in /etc/shadow with "!!".  Beware of fooling with login
shells for the per-service users:  Sometimes, there 's a reason why,
e.g., a daemon's shell needs to be set to /bin/sh, but that's harmless
because it's set to have no login in the password files.

>    i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one 
> that copies absolutely everything from certain 
> directories each night is inelegant. 

Well, the page I cited earlier
(http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/linuxmafia.com-backup.html) might be a
good place of departure for you, because it lists absolutely everything
that actually _needs_ to be in a full backup of my machine, while
omitting all software.

>    we recognize that the growing /var/log/auth.log file 
> represents doorknob tests, it's unnerving, possibly 
> educational. and the big number of iptables rules seems 
> to have no effect: maybe we've learned that lesson, too. 

Well, you'll need to decide for yourself, but I consider the bots that
check for easily-guessed ssh credentials to be just noise.

>    there's nothing much that's worth defending other than 
> the use of the box itself, but that's worth defending. 

Yes.  One of the points of my "Attacking Linux" article is that 

   Even if your machines don't cause you that order of embarrassment,
   the other risks are equally grim: you can reveal confidential data with
   business and/or personal consequences, lose that data entirely, see it
   corrupted or sabotaged, be involved in wrongful or even criminal
   activity, lose access to your computing resources, and indirectly cause
   harm to your staff and business associates. Your Website can be defaced
   or modified, or visitors might be redirected by sabotaged company DNS
   servers to entirely different sites.



>    i've manually gone over many filesystems on many boxes 
> over the last years looking for directories with funny 
> names beginning with the '.' character and perhaps one 
> or more whitespace characters. it's a tedious job but 
> kind of suits me at times. 

You'll never find _all_ of those.  Too many places.  Might be better to
let an IDS watch for you.  See my article (link in prior post) about
"Constructive Paranoia at the End of 2003".

>    the only threat model that i can make out is that some 
> cracker gets through the sshd door....

Well, one point that you'll want to ponder is:  How?  

If you can anticipate "how", then you can arrange to make that less
easy, and do other things such as think about detection,
damage-reduction, recovery, etc.




> and does something: 
> * puts on a root kit 
> * puts in tools that support a bot net 
> * other (can't think of what) 

These are all possible aftereffects of break-in, but really have nothing
otherwise to do with threat analysis, which concern the vector for entry
and system compromise.




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan  5 17:27:03 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:27:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one
> that copies absolutely everything from certain
> directories each night is inelegant.

I disagree; it's magically elegant. Back up the whole filesystem, and then 
you know that if you lose that filesystem tomorrow you have a copy of it 
for later. On this point I think Rick and I disagree, but to me, the 
confidence I get knowing I have the entire filesystem backed up means that 
I don't ever have to worry about my backups excluding a file I wanted, nor 
about spending time configuring the backups.  Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
worrying is expensive.

I use dirvish for this; http://apt-get.dk/howto/backup/.

>   we recognize that the growing /var/log/auth.log file represents 
> doorknob tests, it's unnerving, possibly educational. and the big number 
> of iptables rules seems to have no effect: maybe we've learned that 
> lesson, too.

Okay, so it's for cleanliness, not security? Then use fail2ban to tidy 
that up.

>   there are only three humans that may log into the box,
> so password enforcement, for now, can be verbal abuse
> and stern reminders. i'll have to get pam's cracklib
> working.

It should be as easy as a call to apt.

>   we will have a web server running, and i'm sure i'll have lots of new 
> lessons to learn with that. got any httpd threat models? (all threat 
> model news is welcome.)

For http, well, that's another can of beans. (-:

-- Asheesh.

-- 
If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it.
 		-- Arthur Kasspe



From tom at greenleaftech.net  Mon Jan  5 17:43:43 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:43:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
Message-ID: <1231206223.7916.28.camel@hurlyburly>

On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 17:27 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
> worrying is expensive.

Favorite quote I've heard for a while ^

Cheers, Tom
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  5 17:52:26 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:52:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
Message-ID: <20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):

> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> >   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one
> > that copies absolutely everything from certain
> > directories each night is inelegant.
> 
> I disagree; it's magically elegant. Back up the whole filesystem, and then 
> you know that if you lose that filesystem tomorrow you have a copy of it 
> for later. On this point I think Rick and I disagree, but to me, the 
> confidence I get knowing I have the entire filesystem backed up means that 
> I don't ever have to worry about my backups excluding a file I wanted, nor 
> about spending time configuring the backups.  Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
> worrying is expensive.

Whatever works, really.

I happen to have put in a lot of time getting to know what's on my
system and where everything lives.  Fortunately, Linux systems cooperate
by being very, very consistent about where things go.  The complete list
happens to be, in my server's case:

/root/*                      Root user's home directory
/etc/*                       System configuration files
/usr/lib/cgi-bin/*           CGI scripts (omit PHP binaries)
/var/lib/mysql/*             MySQL database files 
/boot/grub/menu.lst          GRUB bootloader configuration (just 1 file)
/var/spool/exim4/*           Exim and SA-Exim internal files
/var/spool/news/*            NNTP news spool for Leafnode
/var/spool/mail/*            SMTP mail spool
/var/lib/mailman/archives/*  Mailing list archives for Mailman
/var/lib/mailman/data/*      Mailing list state and other data
/var/lib/mailman/lists/*     Mailing list definitions for Mailman
/var/lib/mailman/nntp/*      Mailing list NNTP gateway data
/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/*    Mailing list in-process data
/usr/local/*                 Locally installed files and records
/var/www/*                   Public http, ftp, rsync tree
/home/*                      Non-root users' home trees

Plus, export (to a file in /root) of the package database contents 

   dpkg --get-selections "*" > /root/selections-$(date +%F)

...and partition maps of the two hard drives:

   disk -l /dev/sda > /root/partitions-sda-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sda
   fdisk -l /dev/sdb > /root/partitions-sdb-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sdb

...and a dated snapshot of the all-important /etc tree

   tar cvzf /root/etc-$(date +%F).tar.gz /etc

That's literally everything that cannot be reconstructed (and updated at
the same time) from trusted Debian package contents -- and is a great
deal smaller, quicker to copy, etc.  Important when you backup to
offsite over a congested aDSL link, for example.

Along the lines of "whatever works", if re-copying to backup media the
same basically irrelevant and seldom-changing files in /usr/bin,
/usr/lib, /usr/share, etc., isn't a problem, great.  If the extra time
and room makes it marginal whether you'd bother doing backups at all,
then that's important.

The way you know that you've gotten everything is using the only test
that ever matters for _any_ backup, "whole filesystem" or not:  See if
you can restore a functional machine using it, starting from bare metal.




> Okay, so it's for cleanliness, not security? Then use fail2ban to tidy 
> that up.

If thy logging offend thee, _reduce_ it.  Or, better yet, just ignore what
doesn't matter.

Dunno if this explanation applies, here, but often I see people
scrambling for things like "fail2ban" because they've just installed a
log-analysis tool like logcheck, and are all hot and bothered by the
e-mailed reports, which suggest menacingly that things like dictionary
attacks against sshd are serious threats.  Those people (of whom I
speak) then install blocking software, iptables rules, etc., _solely_ 
to make logcheck's menacing e-mails go away.

The smarter approach is, of course, to just edit logcheck's
configuration to make it cease doing a Chicken Little impression every
time someone rattles the doorknob.




From michael at openmoko.org  Mon Jan  5 18:02:10 2009
From: michael at openmoko.org (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:02:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <4962BBA2.3020509@openmoko.org>

Rick Moen wrote:

> 
> Whatever works, really.
> 



So true. The half ass system one uses is better than the perfect system 
one doesn't.

Q: What's the best camera?
A: The one you have with you.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  5 18:03:41 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:03:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090106020341.GA15595@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

> Yes.  One of the points of my "Attacking Linux" article is that 
> 
>    Even if your machines don't cause you that order of embarrassment,
>    the other risks are equally grim: you can reveal confidential data with
>    business and/or personal consequences, lose that data entirely, see it
>    corrupted or sabotaged, be involved in wrongful or even criminal
>    activity, lose access to your computing resources, and indirectly cause
>    harm to your staff and business associates. Your Website can be defaced
                                                      ^^^^^^^
>    or modified, or visitors might be redirected by sabotaged company DNS
>    servers to entirely different sites.

Yr. humble correspondent would never be caught using a barbarism like
"Website".  As submitted, the article said "Web site", but then it was
screwed up manually by copyeditors to satisfy the publisher's house style.

Ditto the article's reference to two Linux network clients as "Telnet"
and "FTP":  Those lettercase errors were strictly publisher-induced damage.
(On the bright side, I got paid.)





From toya at linefeed.org  Mon Jan  5 18:17:25 2009
From: toya at linefeed.org (toya)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:17:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090106021725.GV80155@linefeed.org>


A good tool for backup is 'backupninja' there is a package for debian and
probably for ubuntu. 
toya


Em Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 05:52:26PM -0800, Rick Moen escreveu:
> Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):
> 
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> > 
> > >   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one
> > > that copies absolutely everything from certain
> > > directories each night is inelegant.
> > 
> > I disagree; it's magically elegant. Back up the whole filesystem, and then 
> > you know that if you lose that filesystem tomorrow you have a copy of it 
> > for later. On this point I think Rick and I disagree, but to me, the 
> > confidence I get knowing I have the entire filesystem backed up means that 
> > I don't ever have to worry about my backups excluding a file I wanted, nor 
> > about spending time configuring the backups.  Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
> > worrying is expensive.
> 
> Whatever works, really.
> 
> I happen to have put in a lot of time getting to know what's on my
> system and where everything lives.  Fortunately, Linux systems cooperate
> by being very, very consistent about where things go.  The complete list
> happens to be, in my server's case:
> 
> /root/*                      Root user's home directory
> /etc/*                       System configuration files
> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/*           CGI scripts (omit PHP binaries)
> /var/lib/mysql/*             MySQL database files 
> /boot/grub/menu.lst          GRUB bootloader configuration (just 1 file)
> /var/spool/exim4/*           Exim and SA-Exim internal files
> /var/spool/news/*            NNTP news spool for Leafnode
> /var/spool/mail/*            SMTP mail spool
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/*  Mailing list archives for Mailman
> /var/lib/mailman/data/*      Mailing list state and other data
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/*     Mailing list definitions for Mailman
> /var/lib/mailman/nntp/*      Mailing list NNTP gateway data
> /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/*    Mailing list in-process data
> /usr/local/*                 Locally installed files and records
> /var/www/*                   Public http, ftp, rsync tree
> /home/*                      Non-root users' home trees
> 
> Plus, export (to a file in /root) of the package database contents 
> 
>    dpkg --get-selections "*" > /root/selections-$(date +%F)
> 
> ...and partition maps of the two hard drives:
> 
>    disk -l /dev/sda > /root/partitions-sda-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sda
>    fdisk -l /dev/sdb > /root/partitions-sdb-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sdb
> 
> ...and a dated snapshot of the all-important /etc tree
> 
>    tar cvzf /root/etc-$(date +%F).tar.gz /etc
> 
> That's literally everything that cannot be reconstructed (and updated at
> the same time) from trusted Debian package contents -- and is a great
> deal smaller, quicker to copy, etc.  Important when you backup to
> offsite over a congested aDSL link, for example.
> 
> Along the lines of "whatever works", if re-copying to backup media the
> same basically irrelevant and seldom-changing files in /usr/bin,
> /usr/lib, /usr/share, etc., isn't a problem, great.  If the extra time
> and room makes it marginal whether you'd bother doing backups at all,
> then that's important.
> 
> The way you know that you've gotten everything is using the only test
> that ever matters for _any_ backup, "whole filesystem" or not:  See if
> you can restore a functional machine using it, starting from bare metal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Okay, so it's for cleanliness, not security? Then use fail2ban to tidy 
> > that up.
> 
> If thy logging offend thee, _reduce_ it.  Or, better yet, just ignore what
> doesn't matter.
> 
> Dunno if this explanation applies, here, but often I see people
> scrambling for things like "fail2ban" because they've just installed a
> log-analysis tool like logcheck, and are all hot and bothered by the
> e-mailed reports, which suggest menacingly that things like dictionary
> attacks against sshd are serious threats.  Those people (of whom I
> speak) then install blocking software, iptables rules, etc., _solely_ 
> to make logcheck's menacing e-mails go away.
> 
> The smarter approach is, of course, to just edit logcheck's
> configuration to make it cease doing a Chicken Little impression every
> time someone rattles the doorknob.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Mon Jan  5 19:05:21 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 22:05:21 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] [BALUG-Talk] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday January 8,
	2009: Scrape the Web by Asheesh Laroia
In-Reply-To: <1231197811.7760.374.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231197811.7760.374.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <683785120901051905j1909dfb5o985c9b15f6ac39e9@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:23 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> Scrape the Web: Strategies for programming websites that don't expect it
> by Asheesh Laroia

I regret that I can't attend but, as I've been scraping a bit myself
lately, I wonder if people have considered using proxies to prevent
being banned?  I have never gotten banned by a server so I don't know
if proxying is worthwhile, but I use libwww-perl which allows me to
proxy my requests.  Drawback is dealing with lots of extra timeouts
and retries.

Agenda for the rest of the talk looks excellent; I would especially be
curious about interacting with JavaScript (I've considered using Rhino
for this).  It would be great if a repeat in SF could be arranged.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan  5 20:52:56 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:52:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [BALUG-Talk] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday January 8,
 2009: Scrape the Web by Asheesh Laroia
In-Reply-To: <683785120901051905j1909dfb5o985c9b15f6ac39e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1231197811.7760.374.camel@jim-laptop>
	<683785120901051905j1909dfb5o985c9b15f6ac39e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901052042060.11943@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, Jesse Zbikowski wrote:

> I regret that I can't attend but, as I've been scraping a bit myself
> lately, I wonder if people have considered using proxies to prevent
> being banned?  I have never gotten banned by a server so I don't know
> if proxying is worthwhile, but I use libwww-perl which allows me to
> proxy my requests.  Drawback is dealing with lots of extra timeouts
> and retries.

Oh, heck yes. Proxies are good. In my work at Creative Commons, we make a 
bunch of Yahoo! API queries, and we make more than the daily limit. So we 
just proxy them through Tor.

> Agenda for the rest of the talk looks excellent; I would especially be 
> curious about interacting with JavaScript (I've considered using Rhino 
> for this).  It would be great if a repeat in SF could be arranged.

I'll see what I can do. (Or you can come to PyCon! ;-)  We do have two 
months, so that could well happen.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Just because the message may never be received does not mean it is
not worth sending.



From jim at well.com  Tue Jan  6 09:33:44 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:33:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1231263224.6447.28.camel@jim-laptop>


   speakeasy sternly notified me that someone 
reported cracking activity coming from my IP 
address. happened three or four years ago, so 
i knew what to do: turns out it was the same 
break-in method and same general approach to 
mis-using the box. 

   the thing i fear is the rootkit and things 
like them: replacing standard tools with 
look-alikes that include malware components. 
   so far, my approach is to wipe out the 
entire system and rebuild from known-good 
files from scratch. i don't trust the chkrootkit 
program only because it seems likely there's 
be rootkit improvements that elude an older 
chkrootkit program (which i download as source 
and compile and then run). 

   back to the reading and re-reading. 
thanks much! 
jim 



On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 17:05 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
> 
> >    no, the cracker did not get root access (not that 
> > it matters, as the box and all its files is sitting 
> > "over there" in the corner). 
> 
> Ah, well, if the intruder just came in and screwed around, that's not a
> big problem.  (Annoying, yes.)  Did you discover the intrusion because,
> e.g., the user changed / created some Web pages?  Or started generating
> lots of mail?  
> 
> Although in theory, intruders can have disparate motives, most often
> it's because they're spammers or Web site defacers.  Or they're
> intending to abuse your machine to participate in massed DDoS attacks
> on target sites, or be a passthrough site or advertised public site for
> warez, or something like that.
> 
> >    i made sure there are no well-known user accounts 
> > on The New Box and that as many as possible (e.g. 
> > daemon accounts) have /bin/false or some such. 
> 
> I used to worry about this.  Turns out that packages pretty much reliably
> get this right:  Either the login shell is set to something innocuous
> like /bin/false _or_ direct login is disabled, e.g., by prefacing the
> password field in /etc/shadow with "!!".  Beware of fooling with login
> shells for the per-service users:  Sometimes, there 's a reason why,
> e.g., a daemon's shell needs to be set to /bin/sh, but that's harmless
> because it's set to have no login in the password files.
> 
> >    i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one 
> > that copies absolutely everything from certain 
> > directories each night is inelegant. 
> 
> Well, the page I cited earlier
> (http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Admin/linuxmafia.com-backup.html) might be a
> good place of departure for you, because it lists absolutely everything
> that actually _needs_ to be in a full backup of my machine, while
> omitting all software.
> 
> >    we recognize that the growing /var/log/auth.log file 
> > represents doorknob tests, it's unnerving, possibly 
> > educational. and the big number of iptables rules seems 
> > to have no effect: maybe we've learned that lesson, too. 
> 
> Well, you'll need to decide for yourself, but I consider the bots that
> check for easily-guessed ssh credentials to be just noise.
> 
> >    there's nothing much that's worth defending other than 
> > the use of the box itself, but that's worth defending. 
> 
> Yes.  One of the points of my "Attacking Linux" article is that 
> 
>    Even if your machines don't cause you that order of embarrassment,
>    the other risks are equally grim: you can reveal confidential data with
>    business and/or personal consequences, lose that data entirely, see it
>    corrupted or sabotaged, be involved in wrongful or even criminal
>    activity, lose access to your computing resources, and indirectly cause
>    harm to your staff and business associates. Your Website can be defaced
>    or modified, or visitors might be redirected by sabotaged company DNS
>    servers to entirely different sites.
> 
> 
> 
> >    i've manually gone over many filesystems on many boxes 
> > over the last years looking for directories with funny 
> > names beginning with the '.' character and perhaps one 
> > or more whitespace characters. it's a tedious job but 
> > kind of suits me at times. 
> 
> You'll never find _all_ of those.  Too many places.  Might be better to
> let an IDS watch for you.  See my article (link in prior post) about
> "Constructive Paranoia at the End of 2003".
> 
> >    the only threat model that i can make out is that some 
> > cracker gets through the sshd door....
> 
> Well, one point that you'll want to ponder is:  How?  
> 
> If you can anticipate "how", then you can arrange to make that less
> easy, and do other things such as think about detection,
> damage-reduction, recovery, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > and does something: 
> > * puts on a root kit 
> > * puts in tools that support a bot net 
> > * other (can't think of what) 
> 
> These are all possible aftereffects of break-in, but really have nothing
> otherwise to do with threat analysis, which concern the vector for entry
> and system compromise.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Tue Jan  6 09:41:52 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:41:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1231263712.6447.36.camel@jim-laptop>



   recopying an entire filesystem every night is 
not a good idea, just as a matter of form, not to 
mention the hassle-factor of managing disk space 
(the time factor seems okay if cron is doing the 
work at night while i sleep). one olde-tyme way 
is move oldest to last, older to oldest, old to 
older, and then copy tonight's stuff to old. that 
gives a little hope for reclaiming work that got 
corroded and then backed up to old. 
   ls -t is one of my best friends, but automating 
the job of clipping off the newest entries for 
backup seems dicey. 
   i've considered making a tarball of a directory 
and then submitting it to some version control 
software and letting the version control software 
do the work of storing the diff. haven't gotten 
around to trying, opinions? 
   we do try to record absolute pathnames of files 
we've changed (pretty much config files in /etc/). 
jim 
:wq 



On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 17:52 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):
> 
> > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> > 
> > >   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one
> > > that copies absolutely everything from certain
> > > directories each night is inelegant.
> > 
> > I disagree; it's magically elegant. Back up the whole filesystem, and then 
> > you know that if you lose that filesystem tomorrow you have a copy of it 
> > for later. On this point I think Rick and I disagree, but to me, the 
> > confidence I get knowing I have the entire filesystem backed up means that 
> > I don't ever have to worry about my backups excluding a file I wanted, nor 
> > about spending time configuring the backups.  Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
> > worrying is expensive.
> 
> Whatever works, really.
> 
> I happen to have put in a lot of time getting to know what's on my
> system and where everything lives.  Fortunately, Linux systems cooperate
> by being very, very consistent about where things go.  The complete list
> happens to be, in my server's case:
> 
> /root/*                      Root user's home directory
> /etc/*                       System configuration files
> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/*           CGI scripts (omit PHP binaries)
> /var/lib/mysql/*             MySQL database files 
> /boot/grub/menu.lst          GRUB bootloader configuration (just 1 file)
> /var/spool/exim4/*           Exim and SA-Exim internal files
> /var/spool/news/*            NNTP news spool for Leafnode
> /var/spool/mail/*            SMTP mail spool
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/*  Mailing list archives for Mailman
> /var/lib/mailman/data/*      Mailing list state and other data
> /var/lib/mailman/lists/*     Mailing list definitions for Mailman
> /var/lib/mailman/nntp/*      Mailing list NNTP gateway data
> /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/*    Mailing list in-process data
> /usr/local/*                 Locally installed files and records
> /var/www/*                   Public http, ftp, rsync tree
> /home/*                      Non-root users' home trees
> 
> Plus, export (to a file in /root) of the package database contents 
> 
>    dpkg --get-selections "*" > /root/selections-$(date +%F)
> 
> ...and partition maps of the two hard drives:
> 
>    disk -l /dev/sda > /root/partitions-sda-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sda
>    fdisk -l /dev/sdb > /root/partitions-sdb-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sdb
> 
> ...and a dated snapshot of the all-important /etc tree
> 
>    tar cvzf /root/etc-$(date +%F).tar.gz /etc
> 
> That's literally everything that cannot be reconstructed (and updated at
> the same time) from trusted Debian package contents -- and is a great
> deal smaller, quicker to copy, etc.  Important when you backup to
> offsite over a congested aDSL link, for example.
> 
> Along the lines of "whatever works", if re-copying to backup media the
> same basically irrelevant and seldom-changing files in /usr/bin,
> /usr/lib, /usr/share, etc., isn't a problem, great.  If the extra time
> and room makes it marginal whether you'd bother doing backups at all,
> then that's important.
> 
> The way you know that you've gotten everything is using the only test
> that ever matters for _any_ backup, "whole filesystem" or not:  See if
> you can restore a functional machine using it, starting from bare metal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Okay, so it's for cleanliness, not security? Then use fail2ban to tidy 
> > that up.
> 
> If thy logging offend thee, _reduce_ it.  Or, better yet, just ignore what
> doesn't matter.
> 
> Dunno if this explanation applies, here, but often I see people
> scrambling for things like "fail2ban" because they've just installed a
> log-analysis tool like logcheck, and are all hot and bothered by the
> e-mailed reports, which suggest menacingly that things like dictionary
> attacks against sshd are serious threats.  Those people (of whom I
> speak) then install blocking software, iptables rules, etc., _solely_ 
> to make logcheck's menacing e-mails go away.
> 
> The smarter approach is, of course, to just edit logcheck's
> configuration to make it cease doing a Chicken Little impression every
> time someone rattles the doorknob.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Tue Jan  6 10:02:24 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:02:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <20090106021725.GV80155@linefeed.org>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090106021725.GV80155@linefeed.org>
Message-ID: <1231264944.6447.41.camel@jim-laptop>


backupninja seems to be available for ubuntu 
and is in the universe repository. there seem 
to be bugs and problems with it, though that 
shouldn't necessarily stop me. i'll read up 
more and report. 



On Mon, 2009-01-05 at 18:17 -0800, toya wrote:
> A good tool for backup is 'backupninja' there is a package for debian and
> probably for ubuntu. 
> toya
> 
> 
> Em Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 05:52:26PM -0800, Rick Moen escreveu:
> > Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):
> > 
> > > On Mon, 5 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> > > 
> > > >   i cannot figure out a good backup scheme. the one
> > > > that copies absolutely everything from certain
> > > > directories each night is inelegant.
> > > 
> > > I disagree; it's magically elegant. Back up the whole filesystem, and then 
> > > you know that if you lose that filesystem tomorrow you have a copy of it 
> > > for later. On this point I think Rick and I disagree, but to me, the 
> > > confidence I get knowing I have the entire filesystem backed up means that 
> > > I don't ever have to worry about my backups excluding a file I wanted, nor 
> > > about spending time configuring the backups.  Disks are cheap, and Asheesh 
> > > worrying is expensive.
> > 
> > Whatever works, really.
> > 
> > I happen to have put in a lot of time getting to know what's on my
> > system and where everything lives.  Fortunately, Linux systems cooperate
> > by being very, very consistent about where things go.  The complete list
> > happens to be, in my server's case:
> > 
> > /root/*                      Root user's home directory
> > /etc/*                       System configuration files
> > /usr/lib/cgi-bin/*           CGI scripts (omit PHP binaries)
> > /var/lib/mysql/*             MySQL database files 
> > /boot/grub/menu.lst          GRUB bootloader configuration (just 1 file)
> > /var/spool/exim4/*           Exim and SA-Exim internal files
> > /var/spool/news/*            NNTP news spool for Leafnode
> > /var/spool/mail/*            SMTP mail spool
> > /var/lib/mailman/archives/*  Mailing list archives for Mailman
> > /var/lib/mailman/data/*      Mailing list state and other data
> > /var/lib/mailman/lists/*     Mailing list definitions for Mailman
> > /var/lib/mailman/nntp/*      Mailing list NNTP gateway data
> > /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/*    Mailing list in-process data
> > /usr/local/*                 Locally installed files and records
> > /var/www/*                   Public http, ftp, rsync tree
> > /home/*                      Non-root users' home trees
> > 
> > Plus, export (to a file in /root) of the package database contents 
> > 
> >    dpkg --get-selections "*" > /root/selections-$(date +%F)
> > 
> > ...and partition maps of the two hard drives:
> > 
> >    disk -l /dev/sda > /root/partitions-sda-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sda
> >    fdisk -l /dev/sdb > /root/partitions-sdb-$(date +%F)  Partition map of sdb
> > 
> > ...and a dated snapshot of the all-important /etc tree
> > 
> >    tar cvzf /root/etc-$(date +%F).tar.gz /etc
> > 
> > That's literally everything that cannot be reconstructed (and updated at
> > the same time) from trusted Debian package contents -- and is a great
> > deal smaller, quicker to copy, etc.  Important when you backup to
> > offsite over a congested aDSL link, for example.
> > 
> > Along the lines of "whatever works", if re-copying to backup media the
> > same basically irrelevant and seldom-changing files in /usr/bin,
> > /usr/lib, /usr/share, etc., isn't a problem, great.  If the extra time
> > and room makes it marginal whether you'd bother doing backups at all,
> > then that's important.
> > 
> > The way you know that you've gotten everything is using the only test
> > that ever matters for _any_ backup, "whole filesystem" or not:  See if
> > you can restore a functional machine using it, starting from bare metal.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Okay, so it's for cleanliness, not security? Then use fail2ban to tidy 
> > > that up.
> > 
> > If thy logging offend thee, _reduce_ it.  Or, better yet, just ignore what
> > doesn't matter.
> > 
> > Dunno if this explanation applies, here, but often I see people
> > scrambling for things like "fail2ban" because they've just installed a
> > log-analysis tool like logcheck, and are all hot and bothered by the
> > e-mailed reports, which suggest menacingly that things like dictionary
> > attacks against sshd are serious threats.  Those people (of whom I
> > speak) then install blocking software, iptables rules, etc., _solely_ 
> > to make logcheck's menacing e-mails go away.
> > 
> > The smarter approach is, of course, to just edit logcheck's
> > configuration to make it cease doing a Chicken Little impression every
> > time someone rattles the doorknob.
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Tue Jan  6 10:15:37 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:15:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231263712.6447.36.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231263712.6447.36.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901060959510.24445@vellum.laroia.net>

I'm going to defend my backup strategy, not as a personal issue, but to 
clarify how this and other tools work.

On Tue, 6 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   recopying an entire filesystem every night is not a good idea

That's why dirvish only copies the files that have changed.

> , just as a matter of form, not to
> mention the hassle-factor of managing disk space
> (the time factor seems okay if cron is doing the
> work at night while i sleep).

Dirvish uses rsync to create hard links to past versions of files that 
have not changed. So it does not waste space on storing files that have 
not changed more than once, but each backup looks like a full snapshot 
because files copied in the past are hard-linked into place.

cron does the work at night while I sleep; typically, one of the first 
emails I read in the morning is the backup report, which almost always 
says everything worked okay. (-:

> one olde-tyme way is move oldest to last, older to oldest, old to older, 
> and then copy tonight's stuff to old. that gives a little hope for 
> reclaiming work that got corroded and then backed up to old.

I don't like strategies like this that assume I'm an organized person; if 
I'm disorganized once, and that happens to be when disaster struck, it's 
no consolation that I can blame myself. I'd rather just have my data. 
Version control it all, and then you can't lose anything. Disks are still 
cheap (although Western Digital VelociRaptor drives that seek twice as 
fast as any other SATA drive I've seen are a little more expensive, but 
even they seem cheap enough to be worth it...).

>   ls -t is one of my best friends, but automating
> the job of clipping off the newest entries for
> backup seems dicey.

Yes! Actually every time I "cd", I "ls -tr" (the -t sorts by modification 
time; the -r reverses the order so that I see newest last so that new 
things don't scroll off the top of my screen).

c.f. http://svn.asheesh.org/svn/public/conf/bashrc.cd_does_ls

>   i've considered making a tarball of a directory
> and then submitting it to some version control
> software and letting the version control software
> do the work of storing the diff. haven't gotten
> around to trying, opinions?

That's a nice plan; etckeeper is good for /etc for that. Then you can just 
use "commit" to record those changes.

But again, I don't *rely* on it for backups.

>   we do try to record absolute pathnames of files
> we've changed (pretty much config files in /etc/).

I'll show you the first entry automatically generated by "git log" on my 
main server, rose. This commit was created when I set up a friend with 
XMPP service on my server.

 	paulproteus at rose:/etc $ sudo git log --stat | head -n10
 	commit db00ca1e1e080b25d151c707aa97b95e9a63b4dd
 	Author: root <root at rose.makesad.us>
 	Date:   Sun Jan 4 23:04:26 2009 -0500

 	    + chris XMPP

 	 bind/cchan.org.db |    5 ++++-
 	 jabber/jabber.xml |    1 +
 	 2 files changed, 5 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-)

So that's my somewhat-extended plug for etckeeper and dirvish. More 
convenience, less worrying. Par for the course in this extended trip into 
the future from my teenage years.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	Why did the WASP cross the road?
A:	To get to the middle.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  6 11:46:40 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:46:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231263712.6447.36.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901051714170.14760@sf.creativecommons.org>
	<20090106015225.GL11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231263712.6447.36.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090106194639.GI10472@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

> recopying an entire filesystem every night is 
> not a good idea, just as a matter of form, not to 
> mention the hassle-factor of managing disk space 
> (the time factor seems okay if cron is doing the 
> work at night while i sleep). 

Overall, I think Michael Shiloh put it best:  "The half-assed system one
uses is better than the perfect system one doesn't."  I've been guilty
of this just as often as everyone else.  Maybe more so, because I'm
overcommitted on the non-paying stuff, and paying stuff comes first.
(So, at home, the cobbler's kids go unshod.)

One point that I urge for anyone's system:  Do an occasional sample
restore.  Otherwise, you really don't _know_ that you're doing anything
useful.  (This is why my standing joke with WAN/LAN consulting clients
is to call it a "restore system", not a backup system.)

If you have time / energy, there's nothing like a bare-metal restore, to
prove a backup strategy adequate and find problems before they become
tragedies.

>    i've considered making a tarball of a directory 
> and then submitting it to some version control 
> software and letting the version control software 
> do the work of storing the diff. haven't gotten 
> around to trying, opinions? 

Eek.  Checking a tarball into version control would be very suboptimal,
because the diff'ing algorithms really wouldn't work.  You'd basically
be storing snapshots in big binary blogs, with massive use of disk space
and no history.

Submitting the same tree as individual files, on the other hand, would
work.

Joey Hess famously keeps his entire home dir in version control, and
just checks it out, wherever he is.  

http://kitenet.net/~joey/svnhome/
http://kitenet.net/~joey/cvshome/
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5976

(It's highly likely that he now does that in git rather than svn, given
his adoption of git for ikiwiki, etckeeper, and so on.)

By the way, for Debian / *buntu systems, etckeeper is highly
synergistic:  Joey designed it to integrate closely with apt, such that
all changes to /etc contents resulting from package operations get
registered automatically.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  6 11:59:20 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:59:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to whack crackers
In-Reply-To: <1231263224.6447.28.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231176896.7760.310.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090105223742.GJ11116@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231200046.7760.417.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090106010523.GE10472@linuxmafia.com>
	<1231263224.6447.28.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090106195920.GJ10472@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    speakeasy sternly notified me that someone 
> reported cracking activity coming from my IP 
> address. happened three or four years ago, so 
> i knew what to do: turns out it was the same 
> break-in method and same general approach to 
> mis-using the box. 

Not having seen the text of that advisory, I cannot tell whether they
told you about activity that would have required subversion of root
access -- but strongly suspect that it _did_.  There are a number of 
things intruders like to do that requires root, and typical *ix systems
have, at any given time, at least a few exploitable escalation paths to
gain root access that can be carried out from the regular-user shell
prompt, given enough time and lack of an alert sysadmin.
 
>    the thing i fear is the rootkit and things 
> like them: replacing standard tools with 
> look-alikes that include malware components. 

You probably already know this, but, for the benefit of others:  a
rootkit is just a minor _after-effect_ of an intrusion.  It's a set of
tools the intruder installs, after escalating to root privilege, to
subsequently hide his/her presence from the sysadmin, so that
intruder-run processes and files are not visible to standard
administrative tools.  It works by replacing those administrative tools
with equivalents that differ only in being selectively blind.

The intruder's aim, in installing a rootkit, is to ensure that you
cannot notice him/her, and, if you do, that you cannot permanently eject
him/her.  The only typical use of "malware components" is thus to
sprinkle your system with an ELF-binary infector that, whenever run,
ensures that a UDP-type remote shell daemon stays running, that the
intruder can then use to re-enter if thrown off.


> so far, my approach is to wipe out the entire system and rebuild from
> known-good files from scratch. i don't trust the chkrootkit program
> only because it seems likely there's be rootkit improvements that
> elude an older chkrootkit program (which i download as source and
> compile and then run). 

There's certainly no _harm_ in occasionally running chkrootkit and/or
rkhunter; they could help you find at least dumb/clumsy intruders, _if_
you are willing to wade through all their false positives.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan  6 20:34:28 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:34:28 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Another school project possible
Message-ID: <4b5781040901062034u311b130fs301b4e3885defff3@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I wanted to let this list know that I have contacted someone inside the San
Francisco Unified School District (SFUSD) about bringing GNU-Linux to
another test classroom project.

I have learned from our work at the first school project that we will
probably need to be paid to make this project viable.  Otherwise, it might
be too much stress.

If there is anyone who is willing to get involved with this new project,
please let me know.  The school is located in the Mission District, not too
terribly far from Mission and 24th Street.  I will email interested parties
privately with the exact address.  I will be meeting with the contact there
tomorrow.

-- 
Christian Einfeldt,
Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Jan  7 13:43:34 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:43:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Another school project possible
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901062034u311b130fs301b4e3885defff3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901062034u311b130fs301b4e3885defff3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901071343m724600dwf399209d08bfd4d5@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi,
>
> I wanted to let this list know that I have contacted someone inside the San
> Francisco Unified School District (SFUSD) about bringing GNU-Linux to
> another test classroom project.
>

I am at the school now.  My contact here speaks English as a second
language, and my Spanish is limited, so there was a mix-up.  This is not San
Francisco Unified School District, but rather, a 501c(3) that has been
around since the 1970s or so to teach English and job skills to new
immigrants.

So although it might not be as great as a SFUSD contact, it is still really
good.  We need more racial diversity in our LUGs, and so this contact might
be a great way to bring in both language and racial diversity.  The Latino
population in SF is horribly underserved for computer technology, and this
school has great links to that community.

They have also said that they might well have space for storing computers
and refurbishing Linux computers and would like to be able to replicate on a
smaller scale what ACCRC.org does on a larger scale in the East Bay.

So I am guardedly optimistic at this point.

-- 
Christian Einfeldt,
Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From a10cuba at hotmail.com  Thu Jan  8 12:17:16 2009
From: a10cuba at hotmail.com (terry)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:17:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13 easy peasy
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1231444803.18428.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.1.1231444803.18428.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-DS168B2668BB9CBDD0334531BADC0@phx.gbl>

Has any one got an Eee laptop who wants to try easy peasy (ubuntu 8.10 )? it's 
a non conicle Eee os based on 8.10 I can burn  some coppys for the next 
meeting . 




From jim at well.com  Thu Jan  8 12:19:28 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:19:28 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Another school project possible
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901071343m724600dwf399209d08bfd4d5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901062034u311b130fs301b4e3885defff3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901071343m724600dwf399209d08bfd4d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1231445968.6447.270.camel@jim-laptop>


can you describe or point us to more specifics: 
* what tasks need to be done? 
* what goals are there? 
* how many persons are needed? 
* is there pay? 
* what about hours: flexible or required times? 
* are there volunteer possibilities? 
* is there a knowledgeable mentor or supervisor 
already in place? 
* replicating ACCRC without james burgett seems 
a tall order, what about working with ACCRC? 
* where is/are the location(s)? 




On Wed, 2009-01-07 at 13:43 -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> hi, 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Christian Einfeldt
> <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
>         hi,
>         
>         I wanted to let this list know that I have contacted someone
>         inside the San Francisco Unified School District (SFUSD) about
>         bringing GNU-Linux to another test classroom project.  
> 
> I am at the school now.  My contact here speaks English as a second
> language, and my Spanish is limited, so there was a mix-up.  This is
> not San Francisco Unified School District, but rather, a 501c(3) that
> has been around since the 1970s or so to teach English and job skills
> to new immigrants.
> 
> So although it might not be as great as a SFUSD contact, it is still
> really good.  We need more racial diversity in our LUGs, and so this
> contact might be a great way to bring in both language and racial
> diversity.  The Latino population in SF is horribly underserved for
> computer technology, and this school has great links to that
> community.  
> 
> They have also said that they might well have space for storing
> computers and refurbishing Linux computers and would like to be able
> to replicate on a smaller scale what ACCRC.org does on a larger scale
> in the East Bay.
> 
> So I am guardedly optimistic at this point.
>  
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt,
> Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From ewalstad at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 12:43:47 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:43:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 38, Issue 13 easy peasy
In-Reply-To: <COL118-DS168B2668BB9CBDD0334531BADC0@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1.1231444803.18428.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<COL118-DS168B2668BB9CBDD0334531BADC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20901081243y273bdf85w365cbd3552a17a0d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Terry,

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:17 PM, terry <a10cuba at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Has any one got an Eee laptop who wants to try easy peasy (ubuntu 8.10 )? it's
> a non conicle Eee os based on 8.10 I can burn  some coppys for the next
> meeting .

I recall seeing screenshots of this in LinuxJournal article on
scientific python an issue or three ago and was wondering, at the
time, what distro it was.  Thanks for the lead[1].  I'll give it a try
in my 'free' time.

Is this the distro you prefer on your eeepc?  I'm currently running a
straight Ubuntu8.04 with mods to make the eeepc's camera, wifi and
other hardware work.  It's feels a little slow, but is certainly
usable as a development workstation[2].

Eric.
[1] http://www.geteasypeasy.com/
[2] http://starship.python.net/~ewalstad/media/remote_office.jpg



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Jan  8 14:49:18 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:49:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Another school project possible
In-Reply-To: <1231445968.6447.270.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <4b5781040901062034u311b130fs301b4e3885defff3@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901071343m724600dwf399209d08bfd4d5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1231445968.6447.270.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901081449o5966252xeb90948b68c29f5c@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 12:19 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
> can you describe or point us to more specifics:
> * what tasks need to be done?


Securing a donation of at least 12 (but preferably 20) hybrid clients with
512 MB of RAM; securing donation of a decent server (I would like to see 4
GB LDAP server, not thin client); doing a mass install over the network of a
lightweight Linux distro (Xubuntu has worked at the school); bringing the IT
staff of the school up to speed on Linux (they have some Linux knowledge,
but nothing approaching that of say Rick Moen or Tom Haddon or Asheesh
Laroia for example, so they are teachable but will need an occasional
helping hand with some issues).

The school already has space committed to this Linux network, and they have
the commitment of the (very non-technical) director of the school and they
do have a moderately well-trained Linux admin who is firmly committed to
making this program work and firmly committed to starting a Spanish-language
LUG at the school, which will be great for outreach.  The school has the
basic infrastructure such as power and Internet to make it all work.


> * what goals are there?


Teaching entry level Linux admins, to be enhanced with increasing advanced
skills as their Linux student population advances; giving away Linux boxes
to Spanish speakers in SF; establishing a Spanish-lang LUG.


> * how many persons are needed?


A few hours here and there by a Rick Moen / Tom Haddon / Asheesh Laroia
level type of person to prevent them from making mistakes early on and to
make sure the system is designed well and, as Rick often reminds me, to make
sure that intelligent questions are asked early on as to their
requirements.  I am sure that there are lots of questions that I have not
asked that Rick would like me to have asked.

During set up, it would probably be good to have one or two monkeys like me
for gopher physical work type of stuff; and then occasional answers to tough
questions.

Also, there will need to be some follow up from someone like me to just
encourage them to use resources like this list.  People who come from the
Windows world are not familiar with using free resources like this list or
other lists, and so they tend to try to figure things out by themselves, and
they make mistakes.  So they will need someone to check in on them
periodically until they grok that they can get good help on places like
this.


> * is there pay?


I believe that there will be an opportunity for someone to get into a
commercial relationship with them once they see what it is that can be
accomplished with Linux.  Currently, they have a small student body that
they are training with simple Microsoft Windows skills, and the IT guy there
has all the usual complaints about Microsoft Windows (buggy, high cost, poor
technology, viruses, lack of freedom) and he wants to take the school in a
new direction.  He is particularly interested in bringing the ideas of Free
Software to the SF Latino population, and so is particularly keen on
starting a Spanish language LUG at the school.

A brief history of the school.  It was established by an immigrant labor
leader from Latin America who saw that Latinos were failing to integrate
successfully into the English-speaking Bay Area business community, and he
wanted to do something about that.  They started with English language
classes, and grew from there to include culinary classes and other similar
trade classes, including basic Microsoft Windows administration.

As their Linux program grows, they will likely be more inclined to bring in
outside paid Linux consultants, but for right now, the IT guy has been
tasked with growing this project with volunteers, as they are not familiar
with Linux and so they are not sure it will succeed, so they don't want to
over-commit resources to an unproven idea.  It's the same old
chicken-and-egg issue that we see time and time again with Linux.  We LUGs
need to create some basic "brand" acceptance for Linux if we are going to
see it grow into a commercial success.


> * what about hours: flexible or required times?


Flexible.  Please see immediately preceding answer.


> * are there volunteer possibilities?


yes.  Please see above.


> * is there a knowledgeable mentor or supervisor
> already in place?


Knowledgeable is a relative term, but he probably does not have Jim
Stockford's level of skill.  He is certainly more knowledgeable than me (not
saying much).  I can do basic installs on standalone boxes, and I know
enough command line commands to implement solutions as instructed by
knowledgeable admins, and I can do basic computer building and repair.  He
is better than I, certainly, and runs the Microsoft Windows program there.
So, for example, he was able to build and maintain a Microsoft Windows
network, but his skills don't approach those of Rick Moen or Tom Haddon or
Asheesh Laroia.


> * replicating ACCRC without james burgett seems
> a tall order, what about working with ACCRC?


ACCRC.org is changing fundamentally.  Our public middle school project is
going to have to find other sources of machines, probably.  And James
Burgett has left ACCRC and the SF Bay Area.


> * where is/are the location(s)?


The Mission District.  I am not giving out the location just yet, because I
don't want to have lots of different people contacting the school directly,
because it will just create confusion.  We need to have just one or two
primary contacts between the school and our SF LUG community so that we
don't duplicate work.

Jim, thanks for asking good questions!

c u
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From vdow at unex.berkeley.edu  Thu Jan  8 15:45:42 2009
From: vdow at unex.berkeley.edu (Valerie Dow)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 15:45:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] UC Berkeley Extension Announces Embedded Linux Short
	Courses
Message-ID: <054CFE3116334B02923E59D231AE8E23@unex.berkeley.edu>


   UC Berkeley Extension Announces Embedded Linux Short Courses

   UC Berkeley Extension announces four new intensive embedded Linux
   courses in its spring line up starting January 26 in Redwood City
   taught by Dr. Kevin Dankwardt, an author, speaker, and instructor who
   has specialized in embedded Linux for the last 10 years.

   "Unlike most of our other courses," says UC Extension Program Director
   Jim Connor, "these are short, intensive courses lasting one to five
   consecutive days that are designed to provide software developers with
   a very efficient, accelerated learning experience." The courses are
   very hands-on with a wealth of practical exercises so a developer or
   an entire team could take all four of these courses in January and
   early February", says Connor, "and have a rapid ramp up working with
   embedded Linux."

   The short courses, held in Redwood City, are:

   Linux Application Program Design and Development

   January 26-30, 8 am - 3 pm

   EDP 326223

   Linux Device Driver Issues Design and Development

   January 26-30, 3 pm - 10 pm

   EDP 326321

   Real-time Linux Design Development and Measurement

   January 31, 8 am - 6 pm

   EDP 326249

   Embedded Linux Design and Development

   February 2-4, 8 am - 7 pm

   EDP 326215

   Students should have some experience with UNIX/Linux fundamentals and
   C. "These four short courses complement each other," says Extension's
   Jim Connor. "Developers who work at the application level or kernel
   level will benefit greatly from each of them. We're very excited to
   have these short courses as part of our program this spring," says
   Connor.

   Dr. Dankwardt earned his Ph.D. in Computer Science from The Center For
   Advanced Computer Studies at the University of Louisiana (Lafayette),
   and held a professorship at Louisiana Tech University where he served
   as Chairman of the Computer Science Department. Additionally, he
   chairs the Education committee of the Embedded Linux consortium, and
   serves as contributing Editor to LinuxDevices.com.

   Founded in 1891, UC Berkeley Extension, [1]www.unex.berkeley.edu, is
   the continuing education branch of the University of California
   Berkeley. Today, Extension offers 1,500 courses each year, including
   online courses, along with more than 30 certificate and professional
   programs.

   To find out more about these Linux courses and other open source
   courses offered at UC Berkeley Extension, visit
   [2]http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/cat/cis.html#openos or call
   510.642.4151. To find out about the computer technology and
   information management program at UC Berkeley Extension, visit
   [3]www.unex.berkeley.edu/it.

   # # # #

References

   1. http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/
   2. http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/cat/cis.html#openos
   3. http://www.unex.berkeley.edu/it





From jim at well.com  Fri Jan  9 17:58:07 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:58:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: Santa Clara RTECC. January 29th, 2009.]
Message-ID: <1231552687.6713.0.camel@jim-laptop>

those who are interested probaably already 
know about it, but just in case.... 

-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Adam Langley <adaml at rtcgroup.com>
To: balug-contact at balug.org
Subject: Santa Clara RTECC. January 29th, 2009.
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:58:52 -0800

Good afternoon,

           I know this email may be a bit our of place, but I wanted to
take a minute or so and extend to you an invitation to the Santa Clara
RTECC - RealTime & Embedded Computing Conference coming up on January
29th. Perhaps you can pass this on to someone who can use it. This RTECC
is a one day tech event is dedicated to exhibiting current market trends
and relaying to you what?s hot in the industry by highlighting new
products and displaying a foretaste of things to come.

This conference will be held at the Santa Clara Convention Center. Doors
are open at 8:30 a.m. and the doors close at 3:30 p.m. Bring this email
and all the co-workers you can muster up to enjoy the many seminars
throughout the day as well as free lunch and parking. 

In particular, there is an Executive Panel Discussion at 11am, 'Embedded
Linux Turns 10; How's its Mojo??, plus a newly added Luncheon Keynote
from the CTO of the Linux Foundation.  But, RTECC is definitely not
only about the open-source community.   Come and see for yourself

If you have any questions, please stop by www.rtecc.com/santaclara2009
for a full list of exhibitors, conference, as well as directions to the
show from the surrounding major airports.

We?re looking forward to seeing you there.

We hope all is well,

Adam Langley

The RTC Group

905 Calle Amanacer

San Clemente, CA 92673

(949) 226 - 2000 

 



Register TODAY for your complimentary Guest Pass to everything:
www.rtecc.com/santaclara2009

Real-Time & Embedded Computing Conference

January 29th, 2009

Santa Clara Convention Center

5001 Great America Parkway

Santa Clara, CA, 95054

 






From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 00:32:04 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:32:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Jan 12 6:30 PM: Chapter 11
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120011020.8369@vellum.laroia.net>

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Jan 12 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 11

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book012.html

This week, we look dictionaries, a really interesting data type. This is 
the first long chapter on a data type, so pay attention. They're quite fun 
and powerful!

IF YOU ARE NEW

If you are new, *read Chapter 11* and work forward in the text, starting 
with chapter 1. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 11 so that we can have 
a coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about 
earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on 
the sf-lug list.

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Your depth of comprehension may tend to make you lax in worldly ways.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 00:43:14 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:43:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>

Alex is going through the _Think Python_ text and it asks about the 
classic RSA cryptography algorithm.

On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Alex Kleider wrote:

> re ThinkPython, Exercise 11.7:
>
> I've made an honest attempt to understand the wiki page referenced, but 
> it's way beyond me. Can you or anyone else suggest a source that might 
> be easier for a non mathematician to understand AND (perhaps more to the 
> point) implement?

It looks like 
http://larrydavidson.blogspot.com/2008/07/teaching-rsa-in-high-school.html 
is useful - what do you think?

> ps if you think this is appropriate for the list, please forward it.

Okay!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
I think we are in Rats' Alley where the dead men lost their bones.
 		-- T.S. Eliot



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 08:05:34 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:05:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Jan 12 6:30 PM: Chapter 11
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120011020.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120011020.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1231776334.6449.42.camel@jim-laptop>


   alex kleider, our other PyClass leader, suggests 
we take a little time each time we meet to review, 
probably starting with chapter 1 or maybe chapters 
1 and 2, partly as a way to help people join us, 
partly because it'd be good for us. 
   sounds good to me. 
jim 


On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 00:32 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
> <http://noisebridge.net>
> WHEN:  Mon Jan 12 6:30 PM
> WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 11
> 
> TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
> TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book012.html
> 
> This week, we look dictionaries, a really interesting data type. This is 
> the first long chapter on a data type, so pay attention. They're quite fun 
> and powerful!
> 
> IF YOU ARE NEW
> 
> If you are new, *read Chapter 11* and work forward in the text, starting 
> with chapter 1. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 11 so that we can have 
> a coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about 
> earlier material.
> 
> WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?
> 
> A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to
> programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun
> conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of
> whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.
> 
> WHAT'S THE LOCATION?
> 
> Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
> and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
> you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.
> 
> KEEP TALKING
> 
> I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on 
> the sf-lug list.
> 
> See some of you there!
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 08:26:10 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:26:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Jan 12 6:30 PM: Chapter 11
In-Reply-To: <1231776334.6449.42.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120011020.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231776334.6449.42.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120825420.6843@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   alex kleider, our other PyClass leader, suggests
> we take a little time each time we meet to review,
> probably starting with chapter 1 or maybe chapters
> 1 and 2, partly as a way to help people join us,
> partly because it'd be good for us.
>   sounds good to me.

Agreed!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	Why did the chicken cross the road?
A:	He was giving it last rites.



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 08:38:18 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:38:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not	so!)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>


i'd like verification of my understanding of this: 
"Let d be the reciprocal of e mod r."  

my arithmetic: 
if e is 35 and r is 9111, 
then d = 1/(35%9111) ## == 1/35 == 0.028571429 



On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 00:43 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> Alex is going through the _Think Python_ text and it asks about the 
> classic RSA cryptography algorithm.
> 
> On Fri, 9 Jan 2009, Alex Kleider wrote:
> 
> > re ThinkPython, Exercise 11.7:
> >
> > I've made an honest attempt to understand the wiki page referenced, but 
> > it's way beyond me. Can you or anyone else suggest a source that might 
> > be easier for a non mathematician to understand AND (perhaps more to the 
> > point) implement?
> 
> It looks like 
> http://larrydavidson.blogspot.com/2008/07/teaching-rsa-in-high-school.html 
> is useful - what do you think?
> 
> > ps if you think this is appropriate for the list, please forward it.
> 
> Okay!
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 09:09:48 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

> i'd like verification of my understanding of this:
> "Let d be the reciprocal of e mod r."

> my arithmetic:
> if e is 35 and r is 9111,
> then d = 1/(35%9111) ## == 1/35 == 0.028571429

No, sorry! Reciprocal isn't defined that way in modulo arithmetic. I'm 
glad you asked.

Quoth Wikipedia: "In modular arithmetic, the modular multiplicative 
inverse of x is also defined: it is the number a such that a*x ? 1 (mod 
n). This multiplicative inverse exists if and only if a and n are coprime. 
For example, the inverse of 3 modulo 11 is 4 because it is the solution to 
3*x ? 1 (mod 11). The extended Euclidean algorithm may be used to compute 
it."

In modular arithmetic, 1/a mod b is an *integer* (iff a and b are 
relatively prime).

There are some Java (not JavaScript) calculators for this on the web, e.g. 
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mpeterso/Applets/CalculatorApplet.html . I 
haven't found any working ones in JavaScript yet; perhaps you or another 
list member can.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You're definitely on their list.  The question to ask next is what list it is.

From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 10:13:21 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:13:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) &
	RSA	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>



   i'm sorry too: i still don't get it. for their 
example: 
3 * x = 1 (mod 11) 
their solution is 4. 

   i read this as x = 4, and therefore 
3 * 4 = 1 (mod 11) 

   assuming i'm reading correctly, the mystery is 
how to understand 1(mod 11) == 12 
   i read 1(mod 11) as 1%11 == the remainder after 
11 is divided into 1: integer arithmetic 1/11 == 0 
and 1%11 yields 1. 

   if my assumption is incorrect, then the mystery is 
3 * x = 1(mod 11) 



On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 09:09 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> > i'd like verification of my understanding of this:
> > "Let d be the reciprocal of e mod r."
> 
> > my arithmetic:
> > if e is 35 and r is 9111,
> > then d = 1/(35%9111) ## == 1/35 == 0.028571429
> 
> No, sorry! Reciprocal isn't defined that way in modulo arithmetic. I'm 
> glad you asked.
> 
> Quoth Wikipedia: "In modular arithmetic, the modular multiplicative 
> inverse of x is also defined: it is the number a such that a*x ? 1 (mod 
> n). This multiplicative inverse exists if and only if a and n are coprime. 
> For example, the inverse of 3 modulo 11 is 4 because it is the solution to 
> 3*x ? 1 (mod 11). The extended Euclidean algorithm may be used to compute 
> it."
> 
> In modular arithmetic, 1/a mod b is an *integer* (iff a and b are 
> relatively prime).
> 
> There are some Java (not JavaScript) calculators for this on the web, e.g. 
> http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mpeterso/Applets/CalculatorApplet.html . I 
> haven't found any working ones in JavaScript yet; perhaps you or another 
> list member can.
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 
> -- 
> You're definitely on their list.  The question to ask next is what list it is.
> _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 10:28:34 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <162205.4750.qm@web53504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3 horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means, but think it is "inverse".
-------------------
t0md


--- On Mon, 1/12/09, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

> From: jim <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> To: "Asheesh Laroia" <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 10:13 AM
> i'm sorry too: i still don't get it. for their 
> example: 
> 3 * x = 1 (mod 11) 
> their solution is 4. 
> 
>    i read this as x = 4, and therefore 
> 3 * 4 = 1 (mod 11) 
> 
>    assuming i'm reading correctly, the mystery is 
> how to understand 1(mod 11) == 12 
>    i read 1(mod 11) as 1%11 == the remainder after 
> 11 is divided into 1: integer arithmetic 1/11 == 0 
> and 1%11 yields 1. 
> 
>    if my assumption is incorrect, then the mystery is 
> 3 * x = 1(mod 11) 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 09:09 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> > 
> > > i'd like verification of my understanding of
> this:
> > > "Let d be the reciprocal of e mod r."
> > 
> > > my arithmetic:
> > > if e is 35 and r is 9111,
> > > then d = 1/(35%9111) ## == 1/35 == 0.028571429
> > 
> > No, sorry! Reciprocal isn't defined that way in
> modulo arithmetic. I'm 
> > glad you asked.
> > 
> > Quoth Wikipedia: "In modular arithmetic, the
> modular multiplicative 
> > inverse of x is also defined: it is the number a such
> that a*x ? 1 (mod 
> > n). This multiplicative inverse exists if and only if
> a and n are coprime. 
> > For example, the inverse of 3 modulo 11 is 4 because
> it is the solution to 
> > 3*x ? 1 (mod 11). The extended Euclidean algorithm
> may be used to compute 
> > it."
> > 
> > In modular arithmetic, 1/a mod b is an *integer* (iff
> a and b are 
> > relatively prime).
> > 
> > There are some Java (not JavaScript) calculators for
> this on the web, e.g. 
> >
> http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mpeterso/Applets/CalculatorApplet.html
> . I 
> > haven't found any working ones in JavaScript yet;
> perhaps you or another 
> > list member can.
> > 
> > -- Asheesh.
> > 
> > -- 
> > You're definitely on their list.  The question to
> ask next is what list it is.
> > _______________________________________________ sf-lug
> mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 10:31:40 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 10:31:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   i'm sorry too: i still don't get it. for their
> example:
> 3 * x = 1 (mod 11)
> their solution is 4.
>
>   i read this as x = 4, and therefore
> 3 * 4 = 1 (mod 11)

Agreed.

>   assuming i'm reading correctly, the mystery is
> how to understand 1(mod 11) == 12

You place the (mod 11) in the wrong place, I think.

 	12 = 1 (mod 11)

means, "In the crazy world we call (mod 11), twelve equals one."

(mod 11) is not an operator, it's just the name of a mathematical world.

>   i read 1(mod 11) as 1%11 == the remainder after
> 11 is divided into 1: integer arithmetic 1/11 == 0
> and 1%11 yields 1.

But I read it as:

"One (in the crazy world we call mod 11)".

>   if my assumption is incorrect, then the mystery is
> 3 * x = 1(mod 11)

"In the crazy world we call (mod 11), three times what equals one?"

"Well, in that world, three times four equals twelve, and twelve equals 
one. Three times four equals one, in that world, so we know we can 
substitute four and x. Therefore, x equals four."

Does that make more sense?

-- Asheesh.

P.S. You're becoming a computer scientist now, not a programmer. (-:

-- 
You have a will that can be influenced by all with whom you come in contact.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 11:10:59 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:10:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <162205.4750.qm@web53504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <162205.4750.qm@web53504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121110220.12310@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:

> I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3 horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means, but think it is "inverse".

It means "is congruent to".

-- Ashesh.

-- 
Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 11:23:55 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:23:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121110220.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <816567.89138.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Is this helpful?

http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath073/kmath073.htm



--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org> wrote:

> From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:10 AM
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> 
> > I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3
> horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means, but
> think it is "inverse".
> 
> It means "is congruent to".
> 
> -- Ashesh.
> 
> -- 
> Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 11:26:02 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:26:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <816567.89138.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <185526.59956.qm@web53507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Here is another one:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=96187


--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, "Asheesh Laroia" <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:23 AM
> Is this helpful?
> 
> http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath073/kmath073.htm
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Asheesh Laroia
> <asheesh at asheesh.org> wrote:
> 
> > From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation
> (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:10 AM
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> > 
> > > I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3
> > horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means,
> but
> > think it is "inverse".
> > 
> > It means "is congruent to".
> > 
> > -- Ashesh.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 11:27:42 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:27:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <816567.89138.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <260361.10653.qm@web53502.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

"is congruent to"

http://ojas.ucok.edu/98/T98/THIENDO.HTM



--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com, "Asheesh Laroia" <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:23 AM
> Is this helpful?
> 
> http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath073/kmath073.htm
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Asheesh Laroia
> <asheesh at asheesh.org> wrote:
> 
> > From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation
> (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:10 AM
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> > 
> > > I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3
> > horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means,
> but
> > think it is "inverse".
> > 
> > It means "is congruent to".
> > 
> > -- Ashesh.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 12 11:52:24 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:52:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <162205.4750.qm@web53504.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <673860.16724.qm@web111003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

when I went to school, the three horizontal lines meant "same as" or "equivalent to." Has that changed?
Also, how do you generate that symbol with your keyboard??????


a_kleider at yahoo.com


--- On Mon, 1/12/09, Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> To: "Asheesh Laroia" <asheesh at asheesh.org>, "jim" <jim at well.com>
> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 10:28 AM
> I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3 horizontal
> lines, not two. Not sure what that means, but think it is
> "inverse".
> -------------------
> t0md
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: jim <jim at well.com>
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation
> (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> > To: "Asheesh Laroia"
> <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> > Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 10:13 AM
> > i'm sorry too: i still don't get it. for their
> 
> > example: 
> > 3 * x = 1 (mod 11) 
> > their solution is 4. 
> > 
> >    i read this as x = 4, and therefore 
> > 3 * 4 = 1 (mod 11) 
> > 
> >    assuming i'm reading correctly, the mystery is 
> > how to understand 1(mod 11) == 12 
> >    i read 1(mod 11) as 1%11 == the remainder after 
> > 11 is divided into 1: integer arithmetic 1/11 == 0 
> > and 1%11 yields 1. 
> > 
> >    if my assumption is incorrect, then the mystery is 
> > 3 * x = 1(mod 11) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 09:09 -0800, Asheesh Laroia
> wrote:
> > > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> > > 
> > > > i'd like verification of my
> understanding of
> > this:
> > > > "Let d be the reciprocal of e mod
> r."
> > > 
> > > > my arithmetic:
> > > > if e is 35 and r is 9111,
> > > > then d = 1/(35%9111) ## == 1/35 ==
> 0.028571429
> > > 
> > > No, sorry! Reciprocal isn't defined that way
> in
> > modulo arithmetic. I'm 
> > > glad you asked.
> > > 
> > > Quoth Wikipedia: "In modular arithmetic, the
> > modular multiplicative 
> > > inverse of x is also defined: it is the number a
> such
> > that a*x ? 1 (mod 
> > > n). This multiplicative inverse exists if and
> only if
> > a and n are coprime. 
> > > For example, the inverse of 3 modulo 11 is 4
> because
> > it is the solution to 
> > > 3*x ? 1 (mod 11). The extended Euclidean
> algorithm
> > may be used to compute 
> > > it."
> > > 
> > > In modular arithmetic, 1/a mod b is an *integer*
> (iff
> > a and b are 
> > > relatively prime).
> > > 
> > > There are some Java (not JavaScript) calculators
> for
> > this on the web, e.g. 
> > >
> >
> http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~mpeterso/Applets/CalculatorApplet.html
> > . I 
> > > haven't found any working ones in JavaScript
> yet;
> > perhaps you or another 
> > > list member can.
> > > 
> > > -- Asheesh.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > You're definitely on their list.  The
> question to
> > ask next is what list it is.
> > > _______________________________________________
> sf-lug
> > mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 11:55:50 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:55:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <839188.89723.qm@web111001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <839188.89723.qm@web111001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121154270.12310@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Alex Kleider wrote:

> bit of a problem here:
> The following url:
> http://larrydavidson.blogspot.com/2008/07/teaching-rsa-in-high-school.html
> contains a link:
> RSA Phase One
> which translates to
> http://files.csaconnect.net/qr_junior/rsa-1.pdf
> which in turn contains the following link
>
> http://louisville.edu/~ahdeso01/applets/Page1.html>
> which goes to
> the U of L
> "Looking for something at louisville.edu"

Use http://www.acme.com/software/factor/ instead.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
A classic is something that everyone wants to have read
and nobody wants to read.
 		-- Mark Twain, "The Disappearance of Literature"



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 15:08:10 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:08:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) &
	RSA	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1231801690.6449.63.camel@jim-laptop>


   i assume the crazy world of mod, which is 
not an operator, is part of integer-land. 
   extrapolating, i take it that 3 * 8 is 2. 

   if the above is correct, maybe i get it. 



On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 10:31 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> >   i'm sorry too: i still don't get it. for their
> > example:
> > 3 * x = 1 (mod 11)
> > their solution is 4.
> >
> >   i read this as x = 4, and therefore
> > 3 * 4 = 1 (mod 11)
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> >   assuming i'm reading correctly, the mystery is
> > how to understand 1(mod 11) == 12
> 
> You place the (mod 11) in the wrong place, I think.
> 
>  	12 = 1 (mod 11)
> 
> means, "In the crazy world we call (mod 11), twelve equals one."
> 
> (mod 11) is not an operator, it's just the name of a mathematical world.
> 
> >   i read 1(mod 11) as 1%11 == the remainder after
> > 11 is divided into 1: integer arithmetic 1/11 == 0
> > and 1%11 yields 1.
> 
> But I read it as:
> 
> "One (in the crazy world we call mod 11)".
> 
> >   if my assumption is incorrect, then the mystery is
> > 3 * x = 1(mod 11)
> 
> "In the crazy world we call (mod 11), three times what equals one?"
> 
> "Well, in that world, three times four equals twelve, and twelve equals 
> one. Three times four equals one, in that world, so we know we can 
> substitute four and x. Therefore, x equals four."
> 
> Does that make more sense?
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 
> P.S. You're becoming a computer scientist now, not a programmer. (-:
> 




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 15:13:34 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:13:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) &
	RSA	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <816567.89138.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <816567.89138.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1231802014.6449.65.camel@jim-laptop>


   well, it helped increase the number of weird 
floating dots i see when i look around the room. 



On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 11:23 -0800, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> Is this helpful?
> 
> http://www.mathpages.com/home/kmath073/kmath073.htm
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 1/12/09, Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org> wrote:
> 
> > From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA algorithm (not so!)
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 11:10 AM
> > On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> > 
> > > I don't think that is an equal sign. It has 3
> > horizontal lines, not two. Not sure what that means, but
> > think it is "inverse".
> > 
> > It means "is congruent to".
> > 
> > -- Ashesh.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Don't look back, the lemmings are gaining on you.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 15:40:44 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:40:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] the in keyword
Message-ID: <1231803644.6449.79.camel@jim-laptop>


   let's reserve a little time to discuss the in 
keyword (not an operator, as the text says, but 
that's not important): 
   the in keyword uses some feature of dictionaries 
to return values quickly; i'm guessing the feature 
is that of a hash table. recall our discussion last 
time was that the in keyword also uses features of 
lists and strings (sequences) and for all i recall 
(nothing further), the in keyword uses other 
features in other contexts. all in all seems helpful 
to review. 
 




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 15:45:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:45:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Render Wrangler; Redwood City, CA; $30K-40K
Message-ID: <1231803922.6449.81.camel@jim-laptop>



Render Wrangler

Dreamworks Animation is looking for a Render Wrangler or Technical
Resource Administrators (TRAs) for our Redwood City location responsible
for providing 24x7 support of the studio?s rendering efforts.   TRAs
monitor and load balance the render farm, assist with hung and errored
jobs and participate in the day-to-day management of render farm hosts.
TRAs provide rendering support for all departments and divisions,
including:  Layout, Motion, Lighting and Special Effects.  It is a
fulltime position, graveyard shift initially, with a salary range of
$30k to $40k

Responsibilities:

Render Pipeline Management:
?        Update shot directories, libraries and servers
?        Run Linux and Perl scripts to convert proprietary script files
into images, movie and video files
?        Render, inspect and fix frames for one or more productions
?        Deliver movie files to producers, directors and animators for
dailies and film out

Render Farm Management:
?        Detect and troubleshoot stuck and failed jobs
?        Monitor, diagnose and resolve/escalate malfunctioning farm
hosts
?        Keep the render farm running at maximum capacity
?        Monitor filesystems for space availability

Render Queue Management:
?        Monitor the LSF render queue
?        Maintain the rendering priorities and fair-share processor
allocations for each team
?        Assist artists with job submissions and job errors
?        Answer the 24x7 Render Desk Hotline

Requirements:
?        One year of Linux, Shell scripting and basic systems
administration experience
?        Good verbal and writing skills, good organizational skills
?        Able to handle a fast paced, occasionally high pressure
environment
?        Can work well with a group or independently
?        Able to work very flexible hours on weekend evenings or nights

Please send your resume directly to tim.norman at dreamworks.com.

Thanks

Tim-

Tim Norman
Dreamworks Animation
Ph 818. 695. 7801
Fax 818. 695. 6210
www.dreamworksanimation.com





From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 15:47:26 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:47:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Operations System Administrator;
	Redwood City, CA; $45K-55K
Message-ID: <1231804046.6449.83.camel@jim-laptop>




Dreamworks Animation is looking for an Operations System Administrator
(OSA) for its Redwood City studio to provide OS, SW & HW support calls
on Windows & Linux.  The role supports the needs of multiple departments
with multiple needs in a fast paced production environment at multiple
sites.  The role is a fulltime position with asalary range of $45k to
$55k.

The job requires excellent verbal & written communication skills, strong
customer service focus, and abilities to work in a team & independently,
learn on the fly, follow procedures and suggest improvements.

- Building, installing, maintaining and troubleshooting Linux & Windows
desktops & laptops
- User account administration
- Software & license installation
- Application debugging
- User support (phones, email tracking system & at the user's desk)
- Develop & document tools/procedures
- Install & maintain 3rd party software & licensing
- Set up & move systems as necessary
- Analyze issues & create solutions for HW & SW problems
- Daily & weekly preventative maintenance procedures
- Bachelor degree in Computer Science or related field
- Strong customer service skills
- Prior UNIX/Linux/Windows experience is a must
- Excellent verbal and written communication skills
- Ability to learn quickly and work in a fast paced environment
- Scripting experience (Perl, VBS, shell, etc.)
- Mac experience a plus
- Systems administration experience a plus
 
Thanks and please send your resume directly to
tim.norman at dreamworks.com.

Tim Norman
Dreamworks Animation
Ph 818. 695. 7801
Fax 818. 695. 6210
www.dreamworksanimation.com





From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 20:40:00 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:40:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <1231801690.6449.63.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231801690.6449.63.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901122039330.23109@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>
>   i assume the crazy world of mod, which is
> not an operator, is part of integer-land.
>   extrapolating, i take it that 3 * 8 is 2.

(in mod 11)

>   if the above is correct, maybe i get it.

You do get it.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Look afar and see the end from the beginning.



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 12 21:12:04 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:12:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) &
	RSA	algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901122039330.23109@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231801690.6449.63.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901122039330.23109@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1231823524.6841.13.camel@jim-laptop>


   we had a quiet little python get-together this 
evening. i came up with the quaint idea of creating 
some broken python programs for newcomers to fix. 
   i'm thinking one program covering basics of two 
or three chapters for a total of maybe five or so 
programs. 
   typos are easy to invent, likewise notational 
errors (e.g. = vs == and [] vs () and so on). more 
difficult are semantic errors: it's easy for me to 
be a ditz, but not predictable; it's not easy for 
me to imagine what a ditz would do to write valid 
code that hangs or is otherwise errant (i can do it, 
just not on command). 
   next monday is sf-lug meeting night (as well as 
MLK's b'day). 


On Mon, 2009-01-12 at 20:40 -0800, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:
> 
> >
> >   i assume the crazy world of mod, which is
> > not an operator, is part of integer-land.
> >   extrapolating, i take it that 3 * 8 is 2.
> 
> (in mod 11)
> 
> >   if the above is correct, maybe i get it.
> 
> You do get it.
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Jan 12 21:24:21 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:24:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ex 11.7 Exponentiation (understandable) & RSA
 algorithm (not so!)
In-Reply-To: <1231823524.6841.13.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <425087.5267.qm@web111010.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120040430.8369@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231778298.6449.47.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901120901490.6843@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231784001.6449.57.camel@jim-laptop> 
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901121026440.12310@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231801690.6449.63.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901122039330.23109@vellum.laroia.net>
	<1231823524.6841.13.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901122123350.8210@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>
>   we had a quiet little python get-together this
> evening. i came up with the quaint idea of creating
> some broken python programs for newcomers to fix.

Yes. I accidentally slept through it. Gack.

I'll chat with Jim and Alex off-list to make sure we're all on the same 
page. Next class will be post-MLK day.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	What do monsters eat?
A:	Things.

Q:	What do monsters drink?
A:	Coke.  (Because Things go better with Coke.)



From dcstein77 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 14 12:24:39 2009
From: dcstein77 at gmail.com (David Stein)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:24:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
Message-ID: <beb8eafb0901141224scfc3177u5c3150e66aa3c54@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

A lurker here.  I'm looking for a place in SF or the area which has
experience building liquid cooled PCs.  I know this is slightly
off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be into this kind
of thing and would have advice.  I have a fan cooled Linux PC right
now and would just like to drop it off with someone who could convert
it all to liquid cooled.  Any advice?

Thanks,

David



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 14 12:46:30 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:46:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
In-Reply-To: <beb8eafb0901141224scfc3177u5c3150e66aa3c54@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <168250.98638.qm@web53507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really have a need for it.  Overclocking effects the life of your machine and voids all warranties. I have done several systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you. It is very expensive to do this and if you are not overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are other cooling options available.

Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that needs to be overclocked?

Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD device that connects to the motherboard to help overclocking, though the auto mode is best.
-----------------------
t0md


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein <dcstein77 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: David Stein <dcstein77 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM
> Hi all,
> 
> A lurker here.  I'm looking for a place in SF or the
> area which has
> experience building liquid cooled PCs.  I know this is
> slightly
> off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be into
> this kind
> of thing and would have advice.  I have a fan cooled Linux
> PC right
> now and would just like to drop it off with someone who
> could convert
> it all to liquid cooled.  Any advice?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Wed Jan 14 14:51:38 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 14 Jan 2009 17:51:38 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
Message-ID: <26257166.1231973503712.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it was pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have never built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could see how it would be difficult. 

 

I don't really have a true need for it being liquid cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I did it is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the pump for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top of that I have had processor chips die on me and when I had the chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I figured I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe.

 

My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person shooters on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays and watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in the background so maybe that is the stress and heat being created and why I have had chips fail. But I have never overclocked my processor. 

 

I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to liquid cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the fun is putting it together. It all comes down to your skill level, what is it?

 

Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for computers its not always necessary but its cool.

 

Best Regards,


Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com



 

-----Original Message-----
From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David Stein" ;
Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?

Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of your machine and voids all warranties. I have done several systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you. It is very expensive to do this and if you are not overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are other cooling options available. 

Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that needs to be overclocked? 

Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD device that connects to the motherboard to help overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
----------------------- 
t0md 


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 

> From: David Stein 
> Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> Hi all, 
> 
> A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF or the 
> area which has 
> experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know this is 
> slightly 
> off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be into 
> this kind 
> of thing and would have advice. I have a fan cooled Linux 
> PC right 
> now and would just like to drop it off with someone who 
> could convert 
> it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> David 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> sf-lug mailing list 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 




_______________________________________________ 
sf-lug mailing list 
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 


-------------- next part --------------
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From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 14 16:17:57 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:17:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
In-Reply-To: <26257166.1231973503712.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
Message-ID: <194116.48831.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste.
---------------------
t0md


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com> wrote:

> From: Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com>
> Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM
> My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it was
> pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have never
> built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could see
> how it would be difficult. 
> 
>  
> 
> I don't really have a true need for it being liquid
> cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I did it
> is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the pump
> for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top of
> that I have had processor chips die on me and when I had the
> chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I figured
> I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe.
> 
>  
> 
> My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person shooters
> on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays and
> watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in the
> background so maybe that is the stress and heat being
> created and why I have had chips fail. But I have never
> overclocked my processor. 
> 
>  
> 
> I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to liquid
> cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the fun is
> putting it together. It all comes down to your skill level,
> what is it?
> 
>  
> 
> Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for computers
> its not always necessary but its cool.
> 
>  
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> 
> Blake Haggerty
> 
> Permanent Placement Specialist
> 
> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
> 
> 27 Maiden Lane
> 
> San Francisco, CA 94108
> 
> (p) (415) 788-8488
> 
> (f) (415) 788-2592
> 
> www.sapphirena.com
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David
> Stein" ;
> Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> 
> Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want
> too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really
> have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of your
> machine and voids all warranties. I have done several
> systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you.
> It is very expensive to do this and if you are not
> overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are
> other cooling options available. 
> 
> Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked
> first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking
> effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking
> I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that
> needs to be overclocked? 
> 
> Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel
> Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz
> support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD
> device that connects to the motherboard to help
> overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
> ----------------------- 
> t0md 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
> 
> > From: David Stein 
> > Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> > Hi all, 
> > 
> > A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF or
> the 
> > area which has 
> > experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know this is 
> > slightly 
> > off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be
> into 
> > this kind 
> > of thing and would have advice. I have a fan cooled
> Linux 
> > PC right 
> > now and would just like to drop it off with someone
> who 
> > could convert 
> > it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > 
> > David 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > sf-lug mailing list 
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> sf-lug mailing list 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Wed Jan 14 16:42:22 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 14 Jan 2009 19:42:22 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
Message-ID: <7200338.1231980141816.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Yes they make silent fans..

 

Still doesnt address the problem that I lost two CPU's to overheating (not overclocked...) Maybe there is a problem somewhere else in the case with heat transfer or the tech that told me they died due to heat issues was wrong; but liqiud cooling has seemed to solve the problem. I wouldnt call it a waste, if it did nothing then it would be a waste, but it continues to cool the CPU and does a better job of it. Just as a Mercedes continues to drive it just does a better job of it. 

Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "Blake Haggerty" ;
Sent: Jan 14, 2009 04:21:19 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?

They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste. 
--------------------- 
t0md 


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty wrote: 

> From: Blake Haggerty 
> Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com 
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM 
> My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it was 
> pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have never 
> built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could see 
> how it would be difficult. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really have a true need for it being liquid 
> cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I did it 
> is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the pump 
> for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top of 
> that I have had processor chips die on me and when I had the 
> chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I figured 
> I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe. 
> 
> 
> 
> My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person shooters 
> on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays and 
> watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in the 
> background so maybe that is the stress and heat being 
> created and why I have had chips fail. But I have never 
> overclocked my processor. 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to liquid 
> cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the fun is 
> putting it together. It all comes down to your skill level, 
> what is it? 
> 
> 
> 
> Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for computers 
> its not always necessary but its cool. 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards, 
> 
> 
> Blake Haggerty 
> 
> Permanent Placement Specialist 
> 
> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 
> 
> 27 Maiden Lane 
> 
> San Francisco, CA 94108 
> 
> (p) (415) 788-8488 
> 
> (f) (415) 788-2592 
> 
> www.sapphirena.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David 
> Stein" ; 
> Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM 
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> 
> Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want 
> too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really 
> have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of your 
> machine and voids all warranties. I have done several 
> systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you. 
> It is very expensive to do this and if you are not 
> overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are 
> other cooling options available. 
> 
> Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked 
> first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking 
> effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking 
> I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that 
> needs to be overclocked? 
> 
> Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel 
> Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz 
> support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD 
> device that connects to the motherboard to help 
> overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
> ----------------------- 
> t0md 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
> 
> > From: David Stein 
> > Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> > Hi all, 
> > 
> > A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF or 
> the 
> > area which has 
> > experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know this is 
> > slightly 
> > off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be 
> into 
> > this kind 
> > of thing and would have advice. I have a fan cooled 
> Linux 
> > PC right 
> > now and would just like to drop it off with someone 
> who 
> > could convert 
> > it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> > 
> > Thanks, 
> > 
> > David 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > sf-lug mailing list 
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> sf-lug mailing list 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 




_______________________________________________ 
sf-lug mailing list 
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 


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From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 14 16:43:36 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:43:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
In-Reply-To: <194116.48831.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <194116.48831.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1231980216.6841.116.camel@jim-laptop>



actnet, on judah at 27th, can do this. 
bring your pc in to their repair shop 
or special order the liquid cooling 
system (they'll help you if you tell 
them the specs for your machine). 
661 9000 



On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 16:17 -0800, Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste.
> ---------------------
> t0md
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com>
> > Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com
> > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM
> > My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it was
> > pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have never
> > built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could see
> > how it would be difficult. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I don't really have a true need for it being liquid
> > cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I did it
> > is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the pump
> > for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top of
> > that I have had processor chips die on me and when I had the
> > chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I figured
> > I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person shooters
> > on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays and
> > watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in the
> > background so maybe that is the stress and heat being
> > created and why I have had chips fail. But I have never
> > overclocked my processor. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to liquid
> > cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the fun is
> > putting it together. It all comes down to your skill level,
> > what is it?
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for computers
> > its not always necessary but its cool.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Blake Haggerty
> > 
> > Permanent Placement Specialist
> > 
> > Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
> > 
> > 27 Maiden Lane
> > 
> > San Francisco, CA 94108
> > 
> > (p) (415) 788-8488
> > 
> > (f) (415) 788-2592
> > 
> > www.sapphirena.com
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> > To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David
> > Stein" ;
> > Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> > 
> > Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want
> > too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really
> > have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of your
> > machine and voids all warranties. I have done several
> > systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you.
> > It is very expensive to do this and if you are not
> > overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are
> > other cooling options available. 
> > 
> > Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked
> > first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking
> > effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking
> > I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that
> > needs to be overclocked? 
> > 
> > Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel
> > Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz
> > support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD
> > device that connects to the motherboard to help
> > overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
> > ----------------------- 
> > t0md 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
> > 
> > > From: David Stein 
> > > Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> > > Hi all, 
> > > 
> > > A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF or
> > the 
> > > area which has 
> > > experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know this is 
> > > slightly 
> > > off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be
> > into 
> > > this kind 
> > > of thing and would have advice. I have a fan cooled
> > Linux 
> > > PC right 
> > > now and would just like to drop it off with someone
> > who 
> > > could convert 
> > > it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> > > 
> > > Thanks, 
> > > 
> > > David 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > sf-lug mailing list 
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > sf-lug mailing list 
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From bliss at sfo.com  Wed Jan 14 16:52:15 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:52:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
In-Reply-To: <194116.48831.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <194116.48831.qm@web53501.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <496E88BF.9090301@sfo.com>

Thomas DiZoglio wrote:
> They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste.
> ---------------------
> t0md

	You say that as though having money to waste is a bad
thing.  Speaking as one who has wasted money without having it
to waste I can say it a good thing to have money to waste and
that people with money to waste provide many other folks with
a good living doing things they enjoy.
	
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com> wrote:
> 
>> From: Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com>
>> Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
>> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com
>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM
>> My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it was
>> pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have never
>> built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could see
>> how it would be difficult. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I don't really have a true need for it being liquid
>> cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I did it
>> is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the pump
>> for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top of
>> that I have had processor chips die on me and when I had the
>> chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I figured
>> I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe.
>>
>>  
>>
>> My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person shooters
>> on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays and
>> watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in the
>> background so maybe that is the stress and heat being
>> created and why I have had chips fail. But I have never
>> overclocked my processor. 
>>
>>  
>>
>> I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to liquid
>> cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the fun is
>> putting it together. It all comes down to your skill level,
>> what is it?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for computers
>> its not always necessary but its cool.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>>
>> Blake Haggerty
>>
>> Permanent Placement Specialist
>>
>> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
>>
>> 27 Maiden Lane
>>
>> San Francisco, CA 94108
>>
>> (p) (415) 788-8488
>>
>> (f) (415) 788-2592
>>
>> www.sapphirena.com
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
>> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David
>> Stein" ;
>> Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
>>
>> Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers want
>> too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you really
>> have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of your
>> machine and voids all warranties. I have done several
>> systems in the past for windows gamers and I could help you.
>> It is very expensive to do this and if you are not
>> overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. There are
>> other cooling options available. 
>>
>> Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked
>> first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow overclocking
>> effectively. If you do not have a real need for overclocking
>> I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux server that
>> needs to be overclocked? 
>>
>> Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel
>> Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 1600Mhz
>> support. They have a nice external USB overclocking LCD
>> device that connects to the motherboard to help
>> overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
>> ----------------------- 
>> t0md 
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
>>
>>> From: David Stein 
>>> Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
>>> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
>>> Hi all, 
>>>
>>> A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF or
>> the 
>>> area which has 
>>> experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know this is 
>>> slightly 
>>> off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers might be
>> into 
>>> this kind 
>>> of thing and would have advice. I have a fan cooled
>> Linux 
>>> PC right 
>>> now and would just like to drop it off with someone
>> who 
>>> could convert 
>>> it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
>>>
>>> Thanks, 
>>>
>>> David 
>>>

	Snip of multiple tags


     	later
	Bobbie aka bliss at sfo dot com

--
     bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA* SF-LUG

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
  It is by the beans of cocoa that the thoughts acquire speed,
  the thighs acquire girth, the girth become a warning.
  It is by theobromine alone I set my mind in motion."
         --from Someone else's Dune spoof ripped to my taste.



From a10cuba at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 14 22:31:47 2009
From: a10cuba at hotmail.com (terry sanford)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:31:47 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 38, Issue 19 liquid cooling
In-Reply-To: <mailman.18.1231980316.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.18.1231980316.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-W126B8E7A0CBC2CB5E49C6BBAD70@phx.gbl>


try asking david at cosmic computer on taraval st @ 21st ave
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. 
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Jan 15 00:47:59 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:47:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle Rankin on Where'd my files go?
Message-ID: <20090115004759.20656webaoa2ykw8@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle Rankin on Where'd my files go?

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-01-20
Kyle Rankin[1] on "Where'd my Files Go? - A guide to the Modern Ubuntu
Distribution"

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

While you might not be able to tell at a cursory glance, a lot has
changed behind the scenes on a modern Ubuntu system from what you
might be used to if you have used Linux for years. For example,
did you know Ubuntu is phasing out System V init? That you can't
loopback-mount the initrd? In this talk Kyle will discuss the
current changes Ubuntu is making to what we might consider the
traditional Linux system. There's a little something for everyone
on the talk: For Linux newbies who are curious about what's under
the hood Kyle will cover the traditional and modern boot process
including how init works and follow up with a guide to where
important files are in Ubuntu. For the experienced Linux user Kyle
will show you how (and why) things have changed and where you can
look now when you want to, for instance, change the default
runlevel on an Ubuntu system.

Kyle Rankin is a systems architect for Quinstreet, Inc.[2], the
current president of the North Bay Linux Users Group[3], the
author of Knoppix Hacks,[4] Knoppix Pocket Reference[5],
Linux Multimedia Hacks[6], and Ubuntu Hacks[7] and has
contributed to a number of other O'Reilly[8] books. Kyle is also
a columnist for Linux Journal[9] and has had articles featured in
PC Magazine[10], TechTarget[11] and other publications.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

    rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

    6:30pm
    Tuesday, January 20th, 2009 2009-01-20

    Four Seas Restaurant
    731 Grant Ave.
    San Francisco, CA 94108
    Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

references/footnotes:
  1. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1849
  2. http://www.quinstreet.com/
  3. http://www.nblug.org/
  4. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007874/
  5. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100759/
  6. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100766/
  7. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527204/
  8. http://oreilly.com/
  9. http://www.linuxjournal.com/
10. http://www.pcmag.com/
11. http://www.techtarget.com/

http://www.balug.org/
Contacting BALUG: http://www.new.balug.org/#Contact
Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 15 10:26:51 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:26:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
In-Reply-To: <7200338.1231980141816.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
Message-ID: <215622.27930.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I agree with you. You have more problems with the system you bought not being built properly. You lost 2 CPUs and that is unacceptable. I do not know where these systems are stored, maybe in a closet without proper ventilation. It seems to me that you have built a computer that doesn't have the proper amount of fans in it and the case is not right either. You have a lot of issues going on here and I do not think liquid cooling is the correct fix, but maybe it is. I can't tell though 2 emails. You might have a system with 4 hard drives in a RAID config, dual/quad core 2 CPU, 1U box, etc.  Though I don't know anything about what the machine is like, power supply requirements, case size, environment (data center or home), motherboard CPU. I ask these questions because they should all be taken into account. You had someone build you this system and maybe they spec'ed it out. I hope you didn't get ripe off, but it happens a lot in this industry. I do not want
 to get in a email back and forth thing on this list either. I'm fine with your setup if you are. I would be more than happy to take a look at it and make recommendations. I would even build you a new liquid cooled system. All for free too. Let me know what you want to do.
--------------------------
t0md


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com> wrote:

> From: Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com>
> Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 4:42 PM
> Yes they make silent fans..
> 
>  
> 
> Still doesnt address the problem that I lost two CPU's
> to overheating (not overclocked...) Maybe there is a problem
> somewhere else in the case with heat transfer or the tech
> that told me they died due to heat issues was wrong; but
> liqiud cooling has seemed to solve the problem. I wouldnt
> call it a waste, if it did nothing then it would be a waste,
> but it continues to cool the CPU and does a better job of
> it. Just as a Mercedes continues to drive it just does a
> better job of it. 
> 
> Blake Haggerty
> 
> Permanent Placement Specialist
> 
> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
> 
> 27 Maiden Lane
> 
> San Francisco, CA 94108
> 
> (p) (415) 788-8488
> 
> (f) (415) 788-2592
> 
> www.sapphirena.com
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "Blake
> Haggerty" ;
> Sent: Jan 14, 2009 04:21:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
> 
> They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a
> liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over
> clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have
> had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling
> is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste. 
> --------------------- 
> t0md 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty wrote: 
> 
> > From: Blake Haggerty 
> > Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in
> SF? 
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM 
> > My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it
> was 
> > pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have
> never 
> > built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could
> see 
> > how it would be difficult. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't really have a true need for it being
> liquid 
> > cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I
> did it 
> > is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the
> pump 
> > for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top
> of 
> > that I have had processor chips die on me and when I
> had the 
> > chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I
> figured 
> > I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person
> shooters 
> > on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays
> and 
> > watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in
> the 
> > background so maybe that is the stress and heat being 
> > created and why I have had chips fail. But I have
> never 
> > overclocked my processor. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to
> liquid 
> > cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the
> fun is 
> > putting it together. It all comes down to your skill
> level, 
> > what is it? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for
> computers 
> > its not always necessary but its cool. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Best Regards, 
> > 
> > 
> > Blake Haggerty 
> > 
> > Permanent Placement Specialist 
> > 
> > Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 
> > 
> > 27 Maiden Lane 
> > 
> > San Francisco, CA 94108 
> > 
> > (p) (415) 788-8488 
> > 
> > (f) (415) 788-2592 
> > 
> > www.sapphirena.com 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> > To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David 
> > Stein" ; 
> > Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in
> SF? 
> > 
> > Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers
> want 
> > too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you
> really 
> > have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of
> your 
> > machine and voids all warranties. I have done several 
> > systems in the past for windows gamers and I could
> help you. 
> > It is very expensive to do this and if you are not 
> > overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling.
> There are 
> > other cooling options available. 
> > 
> > Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked 
> > first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow
> overclocking 
> > effectively. If you do not have a real need for
> overclocking 
> > I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux
> server that 
> > needs to be overclocked? 
> > 
> > Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel 
> > Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3
> 1600Mhz 
> > support. They have a nice external USB overclocking
> LCD 
> > device that connects to the motherboard to help 
> > overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
> > ----------------------- 
> > t0md 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
> > 
> > > From: David Stein 
> > > Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in
> SF? 
> > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> > > Hi all, 
> > > 
> > > A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF
> or 
> > the 
> > > area which has 
> > > experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know
> this is 
> > > slightly 
> > > off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers
> might be 
> > into 
> > > this kind 
> > > of thing and would have advice. I have a fan
> cooled 
> > Linux 
> > > PC right 
> > > now and would just like to drop it off with
> someone 
> > who 
> > > could convert 
> > > it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> > > 
> > > Thanks, 
> > > 
> > > David 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > sf-lug mailing list 
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > sf-lug mailing list 
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> sf-lug mailing list 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Thu Jan 15 10:33:45 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 15 Jan 2009 13:33:45 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?
Message-ID: <29300477.1232044429950.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Yeah it would take allot of time to explain the whole system and enviornment. I am pretty happy with it as of now, the processor has been working for about a year or so now (the other 2 took a crap in a matter of months, I know crazy right?). But it all seems to just be humming along just fine now.

 



Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com



 

-----Original Message-----
From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "Blake Haggerty" ;
Sent: Jan 15, 2009 10:26:53 AM
Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF?

I agree with you. You have more problems with the system you bought not being built properly. You lost 2 CPUs and that is unacceptable. I do not know where these systems are stored, maybe in a closet without proper ventilation. It seems to me that you have built a computer that doesn't have the proper amount of fans in it and the case is not right either. You have a lot of issues going on here and I do not think liquid cooling is the correct fix, but maybe it is. I can't tell though 2 emails. You might have a system with 4 hard drives in a RAID config, dual/quad core 2 CPU, 1U box, etc. Though I don't know anything about what the machine is like, power supply requirements, case size, environment (data center or home), motherboard CPU. I ask these questions because they should all be taken into account. You had someone build you this system and maybe they spec'ed it out. I hope you didn't get ripe off, but it happens a lot in this industry. I do not want 
to get in a email back and forth thing on this list either. I'm fine with your setup if you are. I would be more than happy to take a look at it and make recommendations. I would even build you a new liquid cooled system. All for free too. Let me know what you want to do. 
-------------------------- 
t0md 


--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty wrote: 

> From: Blake Haggerty 
> Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 4:42 PM 
> Yes they make silent fans.. 
> 
> 
> 
> Still doesnt address the problem that I lost two CPU's 
> to overheating (not overclocked...) Maybe there is a problem 
> somewhere else in the case with heat transfer or the tech 
> that told me they died due to heat issues was wrong; but 
> liqiud cooling has seemed to solve the problem. I wouldnt 
> call it a waste, if it did nothing then it would be a waste, 
> but it continues to cool the CPU and does a better job of 
> it. Just as a Mercedes continues to drive it just does a 
> better job of it. 
> 
> Blake Haggerty 
> 
> Permanent Placement Specialist 
> 
> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 
> 
> 27 Maiden Lane 
> 
> San Francisco, CA 94108 
> 
> (p) (415) 788-8488 
> 
> (f) (415) 788-2592 
> 
> www.sapphirena.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "Blake 
> Haggerty" ; 
> Sent: Jan 14, 2009 04:21:19 PM 
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in SF? 
> 
> They sell fans that make no noise for 1/2 the price of a 
> liquid cooling system. I have run home servers and non-over 
> clocked game machines with these fans for 24/7 and they have 
> had no problems. If you don't overclock liquid cooling 
> is a waste of $. But then again people have $ to waste. 
> --------------------- 
> t0md 
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 1/14/09, Blake Haggerty wrote: 
> 
> > From: Blake Haggerty 
> > Subject: RE: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in 
> SF? 
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > Cc: tomdiz at yahoo.com, dcstein77 at gmail.com 
> > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 2:51 PM 
> > My primary machine is liquid cooled... I thought it 
> was 
> > pretty easy to do. That all being said If you have 
> never 
> > built your own machine or replaced parts...etc i could 
> see 
> > how it would be difficult. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't really have a true need for it being 
> liquid 
> > cooled, my processor is not overclocked. The reason I 
> did it 
> > is I felt that most processor fans are noisy, and the 
> pump 
> > for the coolant that I bought was dead silent. On top 
> of 
> > that I have had processor chips die on me and when I 
> had the 
> > chip looked at I was told it was a heat issue. So I 
> figured 
> > I'll just liquid cool it to play it safe. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My machine is on 24hrs a day I play first person 
> shooters 
> > on it (yes on Linux) like Urban Terror, I rip Blu-Rays 
> and 
> > watch those while allot of other stuff is going on in 
> the 
> > background so maybe that is the stress and heat being 
> > created and why I have had chips fail. But I have 
> never 
> > overclocked my processor. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I don't think overclocking is a prerequisite to 
> liquid 
> > cooling a machine. If you want to do it half of the 
> fun is 
> > putting it together. It all comes down to your skill 
> level, 
> > what is it? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Liquid cooling your PC is like Pimp My Ride for 
> computers 
> > its not always necessary but its cool. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Best Regards, 
> > 
> > 
> > Blake Haggerty 
> > 
> > Permanent Placement Specialist 
> > 
> > Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company 
> > 
> > 27 Maiden Lane 
> > 
> > San Francisco, CA 94108 
> > 
> > (p) (415) 788-8488 
> > 
> > (f) (415) 788-2592 
> > 
> > www.sapphirena.com 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From:Thomas DiZoglio tomdiz at yahoo.com 
> > To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "David 
> > Stein" ; 
> > Sent: Jan 14, 2009 12:49:40 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in 
> SF? 
> > 
> > Why do you want to do this?? I know why windows gamers 
> want 
> > too for overclocking. I suggest only doing it if you 
> really 
> > have a need for it. Overclocking effects the life of 
> your 
> > machine and voids all warranties. I have done several 
> > systems in the past for windows gamers and I could 
> help you. 
> > It is very expensive to do this and if you are not 
> > overclocking there is no need for liquid cooling. 
> There are 
> > other cooling options available. 
> > 
> > Also, verify that your motherboard can be overclocked 
> > first. Usually only hi-end motherboards allow 
> overclocking 
> > effectively. If you do not have a real need for 
> overclocking 
> > I suggest not doing it. Are you building a Linux 
> server that 
> > needs to be overclocked? 
> > 
> > Right now, I recommend ASUS boards with the new Intel 
> > Nehalem quad core CPU, Intel X58 chipset and DDR3 
> 1600Mhz 
> > support. They have a nice external USB overclocking 
> LCD 
> > device that connects to the motherboard to help 
> > overclocking, though the auto mode is best. 
> > ----------------------- 
> > t0md 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Wed, 1/14/09, David Stein wrote: 
> > 
> > > From: David Stein 
> > > Subject: [sf-lug] building liquid cooled PCs in 
> SF? 
> > > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 12:24 PM 
> > > Hi all, 
> > > 
> > > A lurker here. I'm looking for a place in SF 
> or 
> > the 
> > > area which has 
> > > experience building liquid cooled PCs. I know 
> this is 
> > > slightly 
> > > off-topic, but I figured many sf-lug readers 
> might be 
> > into 
> > > this kind 
> > > of thing and would have advice. I have a fan 
> cooled 
> > Linux 
> > > PC right 
> > > now and would just like to drop it off with 
> someone 
> > who 
> > > could convert 
> > > it all to liquid cooled. Any advice? 
> > > 
> > > Thanks, 
> > > 
> > > David 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > sf-lug mailing list 
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > sf-lug mailing list 
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> sf-lug mailing list 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug 





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From bill at wards.net  Thu Jan 15 12:06:07 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:06:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 01/22/2009
Message-ID: <E1LNYTf-0001l7-5M@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:


RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
      http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Jan 15 18:26:14 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 18:26:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF January 17 meeting
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901151826r490c666geb419cbf91d93bb4@mail.gmail.com>

OLPC-SF will meet on Jan 17, 2009 from 10am to 2pm. Details are posted
at http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/602 and on the wiki page at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_San_Francisco_Bay_Area

See you Saturday!

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 15 19:49:11 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:49:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Router reported "active user list"
Message-ID: <408198.36347.qm@web111005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I have an Actiontec Router that, under its "Status" menu offers a "Active User List." It reports "type," Mac Address, and IP address of connected computers. "Type" specifies whether the IP is DHCP assigned or static. I've discovered that an Ubuntu server box which is configured to have a static IP address, does NOT appear on the list, while a Debian static IP box does.
An M$ machine shows up as does an Ubuntu laptop (both DHCP.)

STATIC 00:e0:7d:b8:6e:47 10.0.0.152                   # the Debian box
DHCP   00:0c:41:e8:56:1b 10.0.0.6        mckenzie     # MS Windows
DHCP   00:0e:35:76:45:3f 10.0.0.5        ipmtp        # Ubuntu laptop
                        # Ubuntu 10.0.0.165 server doesn't show up
What's up with that?

alex





      




From tom at greenleaftech.net  Thu Jan 15 21:21:23 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:21:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
Message-ID: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>

Hi Folks,

I got a call from the Hayes Valley Community Center yesterday because
the computers were down. Jim Stockford and I headed over there tonight
to check it out. Turns out they'd had a new carpet put in and the server
had been disconnected as part of this, so restoring service wasn't a
problem. What was a problem was that we realized the version of Ubuntu
that's running on the desktops and server is 7.04 (Feisty), which is no
longer supported as it's more than 18 months old and not an "LTS"
release. So, we need to upgrade them to Hardy.

This should work fine on the desktops (with the proper planning). But
the server is a different question. It's pretty old hardware, and has a
funky software RAID configuration, and ideally we'd like to update it to
something a little more maintainable in the long term. Nothing fancy,
don't need a whole lot of power or RAM (by today's standards). Anyway,
we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:

1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
1 GB RAM
50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
just setup backups to an external hard drive).

For more details on this project, see:

http://sf-lug.com/wiki/doku.php?id=lug_projects:hayes_valley_community_center_computer_lab

Anyone know of anything that might fit the bill in terms of hardware
donation?

Cheers, Tom
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 21:28:01 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:28:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901152128i56eb314ah2a8bcf48f492cef6@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I have a couple servers at the school, if you want to come over and look at
them.  I don't know the specs off the top of my head.  You will have to look
at them.  They are rack-mounted servers that were used by ACCRC.org to do
mass installs.

I will have to get permission from our gurus to see if we can give away one
of these servers, because they might have plans for them.  I will ping them
and then get back to you.

2009/1/15 Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net>

> Hi Folks,
>
> I got a call from the Hayes Valley Community Center yesterday because
> the computers were down. Jim Stockford and I headed over there tonight
> to check it out. Turns out they'd had a new carpet put in and the server
> had been disconnected as part of this, so restoring service wasn't a
> problem. What was a problem was that we realized the version of Ubuntu
> that's running on the desktops and server is 7.04 (Feisty), which is no
> longer supported as it's more than 18 months old and not an "LTS"
> release. So, we need to upgrade them to Hardy.
>
> This should work fine on the desktops (with the proper planning). But
> the server is a different question. It's pretty old hardware, and has a
> funky software RAID configuration, and ideally we'd like to update it to
> something a little more maintainable in the long term. Nothing fancy,
> don't need a whole lot of power or RAM (by today's standards). Anyway,
> we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
> getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
> Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
>
> 1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
> 1 GB RAM
> 50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
> just setup backups to an external hard drive).
>
> For more details on this project, see:
>
>
> http://sf-lug.com/wiki/doku.php?id=lug_projects:hayes_valley_community_center_computer_lab
>
> Anyone know of anything that might fit the bill in terms of hardware
> donation?
>
> Cheers, Tom
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>


-- 
Christian Einfeldt,
Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From sgeffner at gmail.com  Thu Jan 15 22:44:30 2009
From: sgeffner at gmail.com (Sam Geffner)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:44:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] problems re-enabling sound after suspend on a Thinkpad
Message-ID: <18a96c5b0901152244v5e9f0e54vf72d196755838605@mail.gmail.com>

 I am trying to *fix the sound on a A21M Thinkpad  running Hardy Heron.  The
problem is that sound is muted when I wake from a suspend or hibernate.*
I have been cruising the forums to try to find a solution. It seems a common
Thinkpad problem and people report varying success with the different
solutions offered.  I have found that If, after waking the laptop from
suspend I do:

sudo alsa force-reload

and then close and reload the programs using the Alsa mixer, typically VLC,
then sound returns.

Is there any file that Ubuntu Hardy runs on a Thinkpad coming out of suspend
mode [or hibernation] that I could somehow slip the "sudo alsa force-reload"
into?   I just downloaded Intrepid I. and wonder if anyone has experience
with that doing better with sound issues?

Sam Geffner
sgeffner at gmail.com
415-648-7744
415-793-3562 cel


"That which makes our task difficult is part of the task."
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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Thu Jan 15 22:50:27 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:50:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>

On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Tom Haddon wrote:

> Anyway,
> we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
> getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
> Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
>
> 1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
> 1 GB RAM
> 50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
> just setup backups to an external hard drive).

Noisebridge may have something spare. I suggest that you join the discuss 
list and ask there. (I'm in Boston for the moment so I'll personally be of 
no use.)

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	What do you call the scratches that you get when a female
 	sheep bites you?
A:	Ewe nicks.



From toya at linefeed.org  Fri Jan 16 09:48:48 2009
From: toya at linefeed.org (toya)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 09:48:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <20090116174848.GP80155@linefeed.org>


Hi SFCCP has some servers also, I will go throught it during the 
weekend and see if we have something to donate. 
Also we are organizing a TECH YARD SALE on jan 24 at MonkeyBrains.net
office - folsom street corner with 6th.

I will send more info about this to the list, it is a benefit to 
SFCCP but people are welcome to bring their stuff to sell if they want 
to. Also I believe great part of the 'left over' could be donated to
the schools SF-LUG is working with. So, it is worthed for people to 
drop by and check out the hardware for sale.

I will send a nice inventation pretty soon to this list with more
information about the event.

bye,
toya


Em Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 01:50:27AM -0500, Asheesh Laroia escreveu:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Tom Haddon wrote:
> 
> > Anyway,
> > we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
> > getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
> > Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
> >
> > 1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
> > 1 GB RAM
> > 50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
> > just setup backups to an external hard drive).
> 
> Noisebridge may have something spare. I suggest that you join the discuss 
> list and ask there. (I'm in Boston for the moment so I'll personally be of 
> no use.)
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 
> -- 
> Q:	What do you call the scratches that you get when a female
>  	sheep bites you?
> A:	Ewe nicks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From tom at greenleaftech.net  Fri Jan 16 10:27:38 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:27:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <20090116174848.GP80155@linefeed.org>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
	<20090116174848.GP80155@linefeed.org>
Message-ID: <1232130458.13925.84.camel@hurlyburly>

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 09:48 -0800, toya wrote:
> Hi SFCCP has some servers also, I will go throught it during the 
> weekend and see if we have something to donate. 
> Also we are organizing a TECH YARD SALE on jan 24 at MonkeyBrains.net
> office - folsom street corner with 6th.
> 
> I will send more info about this to the list, it is a benefit to 
> SFCCP but people are welcome to bring their stuff to sell if they want 
> to. Also I believe great part of the 'left over' could be donated to
> the schools SF-LUG is working with. So, it is worthed for people to 
> drop by and check out the hardware for sale.
> 
> I will send a nice inventation pretty soon to this list with more
> information about the event.

Sounds great, thanks!

Tom

> 
> bye,
> toya
> 
> 
> Em Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 01:50:27AM -0500, Asheesh Laroia escreveu:
> > On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Tom Haddon wrote:
> > 
> > > Anyway,
> > > we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
> > > getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
> > > Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
> > >
> > > 1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
> > > 1 GB RAM
> > > 50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
> > > just setup backups to an external hard drive).
> > 
> > Noisebridge may have something spare. I suggest that you join the discuss 
> > list and ask there. (I'm in Boston for the moment so I'll personally be of 
> > no use.)
> > 
> > -- Asheesh.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Q:	What do you call the scratches that you get when a female
> >  	sheep bites you?
> > A:	Ewe nicks.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
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From tom at greenleaftech.net  Fri Jan 16 10:31:49 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:31:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901152128i56eb314ah2a8bcf48f492cef6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
	<4b5781040901152128i56eb314ah2a8bcf48f492cef6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1232130709.13925.85.camel@hurlyburly>

On Thu, 2009-01-15 at 21:28 -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> hi,
> 
> I have a couple servers at the school, if you want to come over and
> look at them.  I don't know the specs off the top of my head.  You
> will have to look at them.  They are rack-mounted servers that were
> used by ACCRC.org to do mass installs.
> 
> I will have to get permission from our gurus to see if we can give
> away one of these servers, because they might have plans for them.  I
> will ping them and then get back to you.

Cool, thanks. Definitely don't want to take anything that's needed
elsewhere, but if you have any spares, that'd be great.

Cheers, Tom

> 
> 2009/1/15 Tom Haddon <tom at greenleaftech.net>
>         Hi Folks,
>         
>         I got a call from the Hayes Valley Community Center yesterday
>         because
>         the computers were down. Jim Stockford and I headed over there
>         tonight
>         to check it out. Turns out they'd had a new carpet put in and
>         the server
>         had been disconnected as part of this, so restoring service
>         wasn't a
>         problem. What was a problem was that we realized the version
>         of Ubuntu
>         that's running on the desktops and server is 7.04 (Feisty),
>         which is no
>         longer supported as it's more than 18 months old and not an
>         "LTS"
>         release. So, we need to upgrade them to Hardy.
>         
>         This should work fine on the desktops (with the proper
>         planning). But
>         the server is a different question. It's pretty old hardware,
>         and has a
>         funky software RAID configuration, and ideally we'd like to
>         update it to
>         something a little more maintainable in the long term. Nothing
>         fancy,
>         don't need a whole lot of power or RAM (by today's standards).
>         Anyway,
>         we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations
>         that are
>         getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to
>         donate to
>         Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
>         
>         1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
>         1 GB RAM
>         50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as
>         we can
>         just setup backups to an external hard drive).
>         
>         For more details on this project, see:
>         
>         http://sf-lug.com/wiki/doku.php?id=lug_projects:hayes_valley_community_center_computer_lab
>         
>         Anyone know of anything that might fit the bill in terms of
>         hardware
>         donation?
>         
>         Cheers, Tom
>         
>         _______________________________________________
>         sf-lug mailing list
>         sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>         http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>         
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Christian Einfeldt,
> Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From tom at greenleaftech.net  Fri Jan 16 10:32:30 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:32:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1232130750.13925.86.camel@hurlyburly>

On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 01:50 -0500, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009, Tom Haddon wrote:
> 
> > Anyway,
> > we were wondering if anyone might know of any organizations that are
> > getting rid of "old" hardware that might be appropriate to donate to
> > Hayes Valley. The kind of thing we'd be looking for would be:
> >
> > 1 or 2 Core CPU > 1GHz
> > 1 GB RAM
> > 50 GB Disk Space (doesn't really need to be fault tolerant as we can
> > just setup backups to an external hard drive).
> 
> Noisebridge may have something spare. I suggest that you join the discuss 
> list and ask there. (I'm in Boston for the moment so I'll personally be of 
> no use.)

Thanks, will do!

Cheers, Tom

> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Jan 16 13:28:54 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 13:28:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] "Server" Hardware donation
In-Reply-To: <20090116174848.GP80155@linefeed.org>
References: <1232083283.13925.75.camel@hurlyburly>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901160149320.9501@vellum.laroia.net>
	<20090116174848.GP80155@linefeed.org>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901161328v3e59671ao2d88def9d79af50@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 9:48 AM, toya <toya at linefeed.org> wrote:

>
> Hi SFCCP has some servers also, I will go throught it during the
> weekend and see if we have something to donate.


I would be interested in getting one or two of those servers for our school
projects.  There is our 4.5 year-old public middle school project and there
is a project in the Mission for low-income Latinos that will be teaching
tech skills.  So if Tom is not in need of those servers for HVCC, our school
projects could use a decent server or two!


> Also we are organizing a TECH YARD SALE on jan 24 at MonkeyBrains.net
> office - folsom street corner with 6th.


Thanks, I will be there for that.  Will we need to move equipment off the
grounds at the end of the yard sale on Jan 24?  Should I try to get a truck
lined up?  Now that ACCRC.org is changing its business model, we will not be
able to count on them for machines beyond the end of this month, and our
hybrid clients are always keeling over.  At the beginning of the year we had
31 working boxes, now we are down to 29 machines.


> I will send more info about this to the list, it is a benefit to
> SFCCP but people are welcome to bring their stuff to sell if they want
> to. Also I believe great part of the 'left over' could be donated to
> the schools SF-LUG is working with. So, it is worthed for people to
> drop by and check out the hardware for sale.


Yeah, I will be there.  I look forward to your announcement!
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From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 17 09:23:36 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 09:23:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] (kind of) [Fwd: Interesting Opportunity]
Message-ID: <1232213016.6841.187.camel@jim-laptop>



 
Not really a job posting, and I don't represent this company but I did
see this and thought it would be interesting to the group. But I wanted
to send it to you just to follow the job posting rules.
 
A company here in SF named Yorba is looking for people to build
multimedia apps for Gnome. They are interested in video editing
software, photo editing...etc and I know allot of people have talked
about what should I use for this...etc
 
They are looking for fulltime, parttime and occasional contributors.
Sounds like some great opportunities for people who are trying to break
into the industry. 
 
http://startupers.com/jobs/yorba-2790425
 
Blake Haggerty
Permanent Placement Specialist
Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
27 Maiden Lane
San Francisco, CA 94108
(p) (415) 788-8488
(f) (415) 788-2592
www.sapphirena.com




From aldenm at gmail.com  Sat Jan 17 10:25:34 2009
From: aldenm at gmail.com (Alden Meneses)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:25:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat
Message-ID: <C9656F44659F493F9100BA85255124FF@bpoppa>

Looks like Javacat is for sale -
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bfs/996455979.html
 
Sorry but I didn't notice where are the meetups taking place now?
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From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 17 11:50:13 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:50:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat
In-Reply-To: <C9656F44659F493F9100BA85255124FF@bpoppa>
References: <C9656F44659F493F9100BA85255124FF@bpoppa>
Message-ID: <1232221813.6841.193.camel@jim-laptop>



thank you, alden. last time we met was at 
cafe euro on geary at 26th. i suppose we 
should use that as our meeting location, 
at least for now (i.e. for monday). 



On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 10:25 -0800, Alden Meneses wrote:
> Looks like Javacat is for sale -
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bfs/996455979.html
> 
>  
> 
> Sorry but I didn?t notice where are the meetups taking place now?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 17 13:04:41 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2009 13:04:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] NEW MEETING PLACE
Message-ID: <1232226281.6841.198.camel@jim-laptop>


   We'll meet at cafe euro instead of at the 
javacat. 

   Our next meeting is this coming monday, 
january 19, from 6 PM to 8 PM or so at cafe 
euro on geary at 26. 

   we'll have a give-away: a linux foundation 
t-shirt, XL, white with logo on the front and 
linus' announcement of his OS kernel made to 
minix users. 

   bring problems and/or something to fix or 
maybe just questions or news. 





From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Jan 18 10:30:32 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 10:30:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [NBLUG/talk] Fwd: [SHDH] The massive 30th DevHouse
	happening Jan 31st in Menlo Park!
In-Reply-To: <43dcaa140901180923u3750bbbfxb740b40e68967d75@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e6a08f6f-4b76-485d-8656-c77a00a90785@t26g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
	<43dcaa140901180923u3750bbbfxb740b40e68967d75@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901181030u699b46b4r4dd46c9b0a441e2d@mail.gmail.com>

As seen on NBLUG...

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nat Welch <nat at natwelch.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 9:23 AM
Subject: [NBLUG/talk] Fwd: [SHDH] The massive 30th DevHouse happening
Jan 31st in Menlo Park!
To: talk at nblug.org


Figured I'd send this along. These events are a lot of fun, and they
are free. It's a great way to meet like minded people and play around
with resources and gadgets you don't usually get to use. More info at
: http://superhappydevhouse.org/

/Nat

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeff Lindsay <progrium at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 3:07 AM
Subject: [SHDH] The massive 30th DevHouse happening Jan 31st in Menlo Park!
To: SuperHappyDevHouse Announcements <SHDH-Announce at googlegroups.com>

We're celebrating our big 30th with another blowout event once again
at the Sun Executive Briefing Center in Menlo Park. Mark your
calendars and tell your friends, it's going down on the 31st of
January from 2pm to 11pm.

This first SuperHappyDevHouse of 2009 is going to be massive. What can
you look forward to? Check it:
 * Tons of other creative and curious people like you
 * Sun's fun and dynamic space full places to talk and hack
 * A real, functional Black Box datacenter in a shipping container!
 * Lightning Talks and the Human Search Engine
 * A dance room with killer hacker tunes
 * Board game, K'nex and CRAFT room with looms and spinning wheels!
 * Hardware room full of hardware hacking
 * History of SuperHappyDevHouse: a retrospective
 * Snacks, drinks, and dinner (all the more reason to RSVP)

What can you bring?
 * You, your laptop and your ideas
 * Food and drinks you want to share with your fellow geeks
 * Toys and gadgets, crafts and projects, books and manuals
 * Your friends! Your kids! Anybody you want to inspire with our
culture!

Here's the basic schedule:
 2pm-6pm  = Initial hacking + partying
 6pm-7pm  = Retrospective, Lightning Talks and Human Search Engine
 7pm-11pm = Dinner and final hacking + partying

Want to give a 5 minute Lightning Talk? Contact joel at gmail d0t com

Post your name and plans for others to see on the wiki:
http://superhappydevhouse.org/SuperHappyDevHouse30

RSVP @ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=40204287466
RSVP @ Upcoming: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1446782/

We look forward to hacking with you!

DevHouse Crew

_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at nblug.org
http://nblug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk



From jim at well.com  Sun Jan 18 11:51:33 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:51:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat
In-Reply-To: <49725A16.1060409@earthlink.net>
References: <C9656F44659F493F9100BA85255124FF@bpoppa>
	<1232221813.6841.193.camel@jim-laptop> <49725A16.1060409@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1232308293.6841.240.camel@jim-laptop>


hiya, mikki, sorry for the delayed response. 
   i know nothing about multi-media stuff such as 
movie players. it's common that people who design 
software put a preferences choice in the Edit menu, 
so look there. 
   also look in the File menu as well as in the 
Help menu (be attentive in using Help, as the help 
system is global to all apps--you can search your 
way into features for some entirely different 
software than that you're working with). 
   the Ubuntu System menu has an Administration and 
a Preferences sub-menu, so look there, too. 

   best you put your questions to the list, as there 
are usually several people more skilled than i. 
   as a matter of good manners, i do not forward your 
queries to the list. here's the email address to put 
in the To: heading if you want to put a question to 
the list: 
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 


On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 14:22 -0800, Mikki McGee wrote:
> Hi; Jim;
> 
>     Thanks for the reminder.  
> 
>     I have a bit of problem, a luxury problem, so to speak.  There are
> only two movies I care to see, rarely, and that was not possible this
> last tie. The movie Soundtrack was in Spanish! and the Totem player
> seems unable to access the setup menu I used to see with Windows, that
> allowed me to change the soundtrack language.  The librarian was able
> to change it to English, but this machine reverted to Spanish. And so
> I guess:
> 
>     1)   That menu is not part of the DVD
> 
>     2)   It is part of Windows.
> 
>     3)   The default language for my Totem is Spanish?
> 
>     I bothered myself a bit about it, and returned the movie to the
> library, as I was fed up.  I have better things to do than mess with a
> dumb machine, when I am equally dumb about it, and don't wish to let
> it be a time greedy challenge to me.
> 
>     Is there a way to access a change in soundtrack language, in
> Totem?  It is an occasional thing, so not too important, but it did
> bug me.
> 
> 
> Bless All
> 
> Mikki
> 
> 
> jim wrote: 
> > thank you, alden. last time we met was at 
> > cafe euro on geary at 26th. i suppose we 
> > should use that as our meeting location, 
> > at least for now (i.e. for monday). 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 10:25 -0800, Alden Meneses wrote:
> >   
> > > Looks like Javacat is for sale -
> > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bfs/996455979.html
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Sorry but I didn???t notice where are the meetups taking place now?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >   
> 




From jim at well.com  Sun Jan 18 12:25:28 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:25:28 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat
In-Reply-To: <1232308293.6841.240.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <C9656F44659F493F9100BA85255124FF@bpoppa>
	<1232221813.6841.193.camel@jim-laptop> <49725A16.1060409@earthlink.net>
	<1232308293.6841.240.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <1232310328.6841.245.camel@jim-laptop>


   oops. bad manners me. sorry, 't was a mistake. 
damage done, maybe someone can answer mikki's 
question: how to configure the Totem movie player? 
   i hadn't tho't to use the web; here's a link 
to the totem site, which might have useful info: 
http://projects.gnome.org/totem/ 


On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 11:51 -0800, jim wrote:
> hiya, mikki, sorry for the delayed response. 
>    i know nothing about multi-media stuff such as 
> movie players. it's common that people who design 
> software put a preferences choice in the Edit menu, 
> so look there. 
>    also look in the File menu as well as in the 
> Help menu (be attentive in using Help, as the help 
> system is global to all apps--you can search your 
> way into features for some entirely different 
> software than that you're working with). 
>    the Ubuntu System menu has an Administration and 
> a Preferences sub-menu, so look there, too. 
> 
>    best you put your questions to the list, as there 
> are usually several people more skilled than i. 
>    as a matter of good manners, i do not forward your 
> queries to the list. here's the email address to put 
> in the To: heading if you want to put a question to 
> the list: 
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 14:22 -0800, Mikki McGee wrote:
> > Hi; Jim;
> > 
> >     Thanks for the reminder.  
> > 
> >     I have a bit of problem, a luxury problem, so to speak.  There are
> > only two movies I care to see, rarely, and that was not possible this
> > last tie. The movie Soundtrack was in Spanish! and the Totem player
> > seems unable to access the setup menu I used to see with Windows, that
> > allowed me to change the soundtrack language.  The librarian was able
> > to change it to English, but this machine reverted to Spanish. And so
> > I guess:
> > 
> >     1)   That menu is not part of the DVD
> > 
> >     2)   It is part of Windows.
> > 
> >     3)   The default language for my Totem is Spanish?
> > 
> >     I bothered myself a bit about it, and returned the movie to the
> > library, as I was fed up.  I have better things to do than mess with a
> > dumb machine, when I am equally dumb about it, and don't wish to let
> > it be a time greedy challenge to me.
> > 
> >     Is there a way to access a change in soundtrack language, in
> > Totem?  It is an occasional thing, so not too important, but it did
> > bug me.
> > 
> > 
> > Bless All
> > 
> > Mikki
> > 
> > 
> > jim wrote: 
> > > thank you, alden. last time we met was at 
> > > cafe euro on geary at 26th. i suppose we 
> > > should use that as our meeting location, 
> > > at least for now (i.e. for monday). 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 10:25 -0800, Alden Meneses wrote:
> > >   
> > > > Looks like Javacat is for sale -
> > > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bfs/996455979.html
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > 
> > > > Sorry but I didn???t notice where are the meetups taking place now?
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > >     
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > >   
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sun Jan 18 16:13:24 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:13:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] email ettiquette and our new meeting place
In-Reply-To: <764333.37234.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <764333.37234.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1232324004.6841.267.camel@jim-laptop>


   good thought: we're meeting at cafe euro 
tomorrow night from 6 to 8 or so. cafe euro 
is on geary at 26th avenue. 
   mikki's email to me had a problematic 
subject heading and i blunderingly replied. 
   it's helpful to keep the subject heading 
text and the message body consistent with 
each other, even to the point of having 
greater numbers of shorter, to-the-point 
email messages. 




On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 13:41 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> what's the usual protocol re Subject: lines vis a vis a situation like this where the line and the text of the message have no relationship?
> This worries me not so much because of the inconsistency but because list memebers will keep seeing "javacat" and perhaps forget or not realize that the upcoming meeting is in fact at the other place 6 blocks to the west.
> cheers,
> alex
> 
> a_kleider at yahoo.com
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 1/18/09, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: jim <jim at well.com>
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] javacat
> > To: "Mikki McGee" <mikkimc at earthlink.net>
> > Cc: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> > Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 12:25 PM
> > oops. bad manners me. sorry, 't was a mistake. 
> > damage done, maybe someone can answer mikki's 
> > question: how to configure the Totem movie player? 
> >    i hadn't tho't to use the web; here's a link
> > 
> > to the totem site, which might have useful info: 
> > http://projects.gnome.org/totem/ 
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, 2009-01-18 at 11:51 -0800, jim wrote:
> > > hiya, mikki, sorry for the delayed response. 
> > >    i know nothing about multi-media stuff such as 
> > > movie players. it's common that people who design 
> > > software put a preferences choice in the Edit menu, 
> > > so look there. 
> > >    also look in the File menu as well as in the 
> > > Help menu (be attentive in using Help, as the help 
> > > system is global to all apps--you can search your 
> > > way into features for some entirely different 
> > > software than that you're working with). 
> > >    the Ubuntu System menu has an Administration and 
> > > a Preferences sub-menu, so look there, too. 
> > > 
> > >    best you put your questions to the list, as there 
> > > are usually several people more skilled than i. 
> > >    as a matter of good manners, i do not forward your 
> > > queries to the list. here's the email address to
> > put 
> > > in the To: heading if you want to put a question to 
> > > the list: 
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 14:22 -0800, Mikki McGee wrote:
> > > > Hi; Jim;
> > > > 
> > > >     Thanks for the reminder.  
> > > > 
> > > >     I have a bit of problem, a luxury problem, so
> > to speak.  There are
> > > > only two movies I care to see, rarely, and that
> > was not possible this
> > > > last tie. The movie Soundtrack was in Spanish!
> > and the Totem player
> > > > seems unable to access the setup menu I used to
> > see with Windows, that
> > > > allowed me to change the soundtrack language. 
> > The librarian was able
> > > > to change it to English, but this machine
> > reverted to Spanish. And so
> > > > I guess:
> > > > 
> > > >     1)   That menu is not part of the DVD
> > > > 
> > > >     2)   It is part of Windows.
> > > > 
> > > >     3)   The default language for my Totem is
> > Spanish?
> > > > 
> > > >     I bothered myself a bit about it, and
> > returned the movie to the
> > > > library, as I was fed up.  I have better things
> > to do than mess with a
> > > > dumb machine, when I am equally dumb about it,
> > and don't wish to let
> > > > it be a time greedy challenge to me.
> > > > 
> > > >     Is there a way to access a change in
> > soundtrack language, in
> > > > Totem?  It is an occasional thing, so not too
> > important, but it did
> > > > bug me.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Bless All
> > > > 
> > > > Mikki
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > jim wrote: 
> > > > > thank you, alden. last time we met was at 
> > > > > cafe euro on geary at 26th. i suppose we 
> > > > > should use that as our meeting location, 
> > > > > at least for now (i.e. for monday). 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 10:25 -0800, Alden
> > Meneses wrote:
> > > > >   
> > > > > > Looks like Javacat is for sale -
> > > > > >
> > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bfs/996455979.html
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >  
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Sorry but I didn???t notice where
> > are the meetups taking place now?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > > > >
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > > > >     
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > > >
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > > > >   
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > sf-lug mailing list
> > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
>       
> 




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Jan 18 17:08:42 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:08:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] hackable Open Office version of Fairey's Obama poster
Message-ID: <4b5781040901181708m2dda4190wa5da089ff8696b2f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

http://blog.worldlabel.com/2009/free-obama-poster-labels-to-personalize.html

Russell Ossendryver, a GNU-Linux user in New York, has made a hackable
OpenOffice.org version of the famous Fairey Obama poster available for
download.

If you like this story and want to help it make the front page of Digg or
Slashdot, you can vote here.

http://digg.com/political_opinion/Make_your_own_edit_of_the_famous_Obama_poster_Easy

http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3101031

-- 
Christian Einfeldt,
Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From toya at linefeed.org  Mon Jan 19 10:09:19 2009
From: toya at linefeed.org (toya)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 10:09:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SFCCP Tech Yard Sale Announcement -
	http://yardsale.sfccp.net
Message-ID: <20090119180919.GE1115@linefeed.org>


TECHNOLOGY YARD SALE!
---------------------
http://yardsale.sfccp.net/  
 
when:
SATURDAY, JANUARY 24, 2009
10:30AM - 4:00PM
 
where:
MONKEYBRAINS.NET
984 Folsom Street (SOMA) - second floor
San Francisco, CA 94107
http://tinyurl.com/sfyardsale
 
what:
servers, desktops, usb drives, hard drives,
tools, new equipment, old equipment, DVDs from
indymedia, cell phones -- any & all technology
at fair, yard sale prices!
 
why:
the yard sale is mainly a benefit for the san francisco 
community colocation project, a non-profit that provides 
private and secure data center facilities for other 
non-profits, community groups, and free software 
development teams. but you can benefit, too! 

---------------

how it works:

[1] come by and see what's for sale: there are sure to be 
some great bargains. 

[2] if you have new or used technology you want to donate to SFCCP, just
bring it with you on the day of the yard sale!

[3] if you have new or used equipment that you want to sell for
yourself, bring it with you and we'll provide space to showcase your
wares! 

[4] we'll have a computer testing lab set up so you can make sure that
whatever you're buying works like it's supposed to!

[5] we'll also have a lot of freebies: open source operating system CDs,
stickers, t-shirts and more!

[6] live video streaming: we'll be streaming the yard sale to SFCCP
clients from latin america, europe, africa and the middle east! SFCCP
accepts online donations :)
 
---------------
 
The San Francisco Community Colo is a community-owned,
community-operated provider of high-availability, high-quality internet
uplink for the community. We support digital rights in practice by
providing a protected space for non-profits and independent media.
Please come out and support your local, community ISP. For more
information, see http://www.sfccp.net/
 
Monkeybrains has been in business since 1998, offering an independent
alternative to major, commercial ISPs. They offer everything that large
& small companies or individuals need for hosting servers, e-mail,
hardware, domain hosting and more. For more information, see
http://www.monkeybrains.net/
 
---------------

For more information, e-mail inquire at sfccp.net or call (415) 887-7679.
You can also come by our IRC channel at irc.indymedia.org (channel
#sfccp).
 
We hope to see you there! Please support community-based internet
projects and help keep the internet free!
 
---------------

This event is sponsored by:
- MonkeyBrains.net, http://www.monkeybrains.net/
- North by South LLC, http://www.northxsouth.com/
 




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Jan 19 11:19:47 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 11:19:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Today's the day: LUGOD 10th anniversary!
Message-ID: <20090119191947.GE31599@sonic.net>


LUGOD celebrates our 10 year anniversary at 7pm today (Mon. Jan, 19th)
at the public library in Davis.  Free pizza and cake will be served,
and we've got a ton of give-aways and raffle prizes.

All the details are at: http://www.lugod.org/10/

Hope to see you there!

-bill!
root at lugod.org
President & Co-founder
Linux Users' Group of Davis
http://www.lugod.org/



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Jan 19 12:45:23 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:45:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Reminder: TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle Rankin on
	Where'd	my files go? (Ubuntu, etc.)
Message-ID: <20090119124523.23413q57sd3kwccg@webmail.rawbw.com>

Reminder: TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20
Kyle Rankin on Where'd my files go? (Ubuntu, etc.)

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-01-20
Kyle Rankin[1] on "Where'd my Files Go? - A guide to the Modern Ubuntu
Distribution"

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

While you might not be able to tell at a cursory glance, a lot has
changed behind the scenes on a modern Ubuntu system from what you
might be used to if you have used Linux for years. For example,
did you know Ubuntu is phasing out System V init? That you can't
loopback-mount the initrd? In this talk Kyle will discuss the
current changes Ubuntu is making to what we might consider the
traditional Linux system. There's a little something for everyone
on the talk: For Linux newbies who are curious about what's under
the hood Kyle will cover the traditional and modern boot process
including how init works and follow up with a guide to where
important files are in Ubuntu. For the experienced Linux user Kyle
will show you how (and why) things have changed and where you can
look now when you want to, for instance, change the default
runlevel on an Ubuntu system.

Kyle Rankin is a systems architect for Quinstreet, Inc.[2], the
current president of the North Bay Linux Users Group[3], the
author of Knoppix Hacks,[4] Knoppix Pocket Reference[5],
Linux Multimedia Hacks[6], and Ubuntu Hacks[7] and has
contributed to a number of other O'Reilly[8] books. Kyle is also
a columnist for Linux Journal[9] and has had articles featured in
PC Magazine[10], TechTarget[11] and other publications.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

    rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

    6:30pm
    Tuesday, January 20th, 2009 2009-01-20

    Four Seas Restaurant
    731 Grant Ave.
    San Francisco, CA 94108
    Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

references/footnotes:
  1. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1849
  2. http://www.quinstreet.com/
  3. http://www.nblug.org/
  4. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007874/
  5. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100759/
  6. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100766/
  7. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527204/
  8. http://oreilly.com/
  9. http://www.linuxjournal.com/
10. http://www.pcmag.com/
11. http://www.techtarget.com/

http://www.balug.org/
Contacting BALUG: http://www.new.balug.org/#Contact
Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Jan 19 13:36:21 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:36:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Looking for ride to tonight's LUGOD meeting
Message-ID: <20090119213621.GD12724@sonic.net>


Sorry to bug these lists, but someone in SF is looking for a ride to
tonight's LUGOD.  If you're planning on going, and can offer a ride,
please contact him: Jesse Zbikowski <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com>

Thanks,

-bill!



From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 19 16:13:03 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:13:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Reminder: TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle
	Rankin	on Where'd	my files go? (Ubuntu, etc.)
In-Reply-To: <20090119124523.23413q57sd3kwccg@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090119124523.23413q57sd3kwccg@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <1232410383.6841.324.camel@jim-laptop>



   kyle's talk got good reviews from some of 
the NBLUG attendees that caught it. 


On Mon, 2009-01-19 at 12:45 -0800, Michael Paoli wrote:
> Reminder: TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20
> Kyle Rankin on Where'd my files go? (Ubuntu, etc.)
> 
> Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
> Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-01-20
> Kyle Rankin[1] on "Where'd my Files Go? - A guide to the Modern Ubuntu
> Distribution"
> 
> Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).
> 
> While you might not be able to tell at a cursory glance, a lot has
> changed behind the scenes on a modern Ubuntu system from what you
> might be used to if you have used Linux for years. For example,
> did you know Ubuntu is phasing out System V init? That you can't
> loopback-mount the initrd? In this talk Kyle will discuss the
> current changes Ubuntu is making to what we might consider the
> traditional Linux system. There's a little something for everyone
> on the talk: For Linux newbies who are curious about what's under
> the hood Kyle will cover the traditional and modern boot process
> including how init works and follow up with a guide to where
> important files are in Ubuntu. For the experienced Linux user Kyle
> will show you how (and why) things have changed and where you can
> look now when you want to, for instance, change the default
> runlevel on an Ubuntu system.
> 
> Kyle Rankin is a systems architect for Quinstreet, Inc.[2], the
> current president of the North Bay Linux Users Group[3], the
> author of Knoppix Hacks,[4] Knoppix Pocket Reference[5],
> Linux Multimedia Hacks[6], and Ubuntu Hacks[7] and has
> contributed to a number of other O'Reilly[8] books. Kyle is also
> a columnist for Linux Journal[9] and has had articles featured in
> PC Magazine[10], TechTarget[11] and other publications.
> 
> So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:
> 
>     rsvp at balug.org
> 
> **Why RSVP??**
> 
> Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
> Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat
> upstairs in the private banquet room.
> 
> Meeting Details...
> 
>     6:30pm
>     Tuesday, January 20th, 2009 2009-01-20
> 
>     Four Seas Restaurant
>     731 Grant Ave.
>     San Francisco, CA 94108
>     Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny
> 
> Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13
> 
> references/footnotes:
>   1. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1849
>   2. http://www.quinstreet.com/
>   3. http://www.nblug.org/
>   4. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007874/
>   5. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100759/
>   6. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100766/
>   7. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527204/
>   8. http://oreilly.com/
>   9. http://www.linuxjournal.com/
> 10. http://www.pcmag.com/
> 11. http://www.techtarget.com/
> 
> http://www.balug.org/
> Contacting BALUG: http://www.new.balug.org/#Contact
> Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
> should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
> things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 16:26:26 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:26:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ThinLinc?
Message-ID: <4b5781040901191626g454cbbd8qae2e17ce3bb24015@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I would like to see what this group's thoughts are on ThinLinc:

http://www.cendio.com/products/thinlinc/?gclid=CKnGs87wm5gCFQdDgwodwVXxnA

I know that some of this group's more skilled members will probably consider
it a waste, but I am wondering if there might be a use case for groups that
don't have a highly skilled hi-level GNU-Linux guru on staff.  Here is how
this group describes itself:

hinLinc is a Linux Terminal Server solution. ThinLinc is used to
virtualize desktops and applications by the use of Server Based Computing.

The product is largely based on Open Source Software. This has contributed
to faster development times, and also to making the product very robust and
at the same time adaptable.

The use of Open Source Software in the product also means that many
functions ? which are delivered as addons in other products ? are part of
ThinLinc from the start: encryption, single signon, clustering, advanced
printer management, and integration between different systems and
services.
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan 19 16:52:45 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 16:52:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ThinLinc?
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901191626g454cbbd8qae2e17ce3bb24015@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901191626g454cbbd8qae2e17ce3bb24015@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090120005245.GX16400@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> The product is largely based on Open Source Software. 

<chuckle>

The Cheeto Factor rides again!
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#cheeto-factor

Meanwhile, the _real_ Linux Terminal Server project is doing fine, and I'll 
bet Prof. Verma can talk about its easy implementation in Ubuntu, for example:
http://www.slideshare.net/sverma/ubuntu-and-linux-terminal-server-project?type=powerpoint





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Jan 19 18:37:44 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:37:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] playback troubles with DTP video
Message-ID: <4b5781040901191837o3eb62736r81b6c622df7ece2f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

one of our video rough editors has had a problem playing back Digital
Tipping Point video that I have sent to him.  I sent him video on an
external hard drive, and he has tried to play back the video with Kino, but
has had problems, which he describes below.  The video is in .dv format.
Here is his description:

I sat down and tried to work on some captures for dtp today, but i went
to run Kino 1.3.0 and it played back super-fast. As in a minute a
second. I did a bunch of searching on ubuntu forums and tried a few
things, but I was unsuccessful.

Thanks in advance for any help!
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From bliss at sfo.com  Tue Jan 20 10:41:50 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (bobbie sellers)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:41:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
Message-ID: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>

	This was a relative small meeting but raised
some interesting matters.  We were finally treated to
a long discussion of portable application development.

	Jackie is having a problem as she mentioned here
getting Totem to display the subtitles in English from
a Spanish language version of a film.

	We had visitors from France and Australia.

	As we trouped out the door about 8 PM the
manager made sure to tell us that our group was
very welcome and he hoped to see us again.  Jim
provided him with e-mail contact information.

	Sorry to be using Windows but I had a system
stop working and the release of Linux I have on this
laptop found it difficult to use the Ethernet card* to
get online.  I get lots of e-mail and wanted to clear
out the ISP so I was able to get the Windows working
and that is what is going on.
	*Farallon pcmcia card.

	Hope to figure out what is going on with
the Dell Dimension 2400 soon but it cannot even
show the BIOS screen.

	later
	Bobbie aka bliss at sfo dot com



From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 14:38:09 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:38:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help getting proper geocode data for google maps
Message-ID: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>


   need help with map specifications: 

   the snippet below is from the sf-lug.com web site's 
top-level page, index.php (to which i've made small changes). 

   within that file was a 
<?php 
code block that echo'd some html. within the html 
stream was the following data that invokes google maps 
and has it present the location of the javacat cafe. 

echo ", from $mtg_time</b>, at the <a href=
\"http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=Geary+Street,
+20th+avenue+San+Francisco,
+CA&ie=UTF8&latlng=37780310,-122478839,9880609735190790817&ei=ksruRuS8E6DKjAP2z8yXDQ&sig2=CX8HEtC3fQw_EOZ4LGi_PQ&cd=7\">Javacat cafe</a>, on Geary at 20th Ave in San Francisco."

   i'd like to modify it to present the location of 
the cafe euro. i've gotten this far: 

echo ", from $mtg_time</b>, at the <a href=
\"http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=Geary+Street,
+20th+avenue+San+Francisco,
+CA&ie=UTF8&latlng=37779932,-122485361,9880609735190790817&ei=ksruRuS8E6DKjAP2z8yXDQ&sig2=CX8HEtC3fQw_EOZ4LGi_PQ&cd=7\">Javacat cafe</a>, on Geary at 26th Ave in San Francisco."

   for those who don't speak martian, the difference is 
that the bottom version has changed the latlng data from 
37780310,-122478839
to 
37779932,-122485361 
i.e. from specifying javacat to specifying cafe euro. 

   but it doesn't work. i think it will if 
9880609735190790817&ei=ksruRuS8E6DKjAP2z8yXDQ&sig2=CX8HEtC3fQw_EOZ4LGi_PQ&cd=7 
is adjusted properly. 

   how to get that data? 







From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 14:43:59 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:43:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
In-Reply-To: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
References: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <1232491439.6841.409.camel@jim-laptop>



   thanks for the neat report (neat as in "keen", 
i.e. good). 

   data point: it's "mikki" rather than "jackie". 

   let us know what you discover is the problem with 
the dell dimension 2400. 
   if it's a hardware problem, there may be some 
among us who have working pieces to give you. 
(seems to me dell cases make homebrew hardware 
fixing painful, but maybe someone knows take-apart 
secrets for dell's construction.) 



On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 10:41 -0800, bobbie sellers wrote:
> 	This was a relative small meeting but raised
> some interesting matters.  We were finally treated to
> a long discussion of portable application development.
> 
> 	Jackie is having a problem as she mentioned here
> getting Totem to display the subtitles in English from
> a Spanish language version of a film.
> 
> 	We had visitors from France and Australia.
> 
> 	As we trouped out the door about 8 PM the
> manager made sure to tell us that our group was
> very welcome and he hoped to see us again.  Jim
> provided him with e-mail contact information.
> 
> 	Sorry to be using Windows but I had a system
> stop working and the release of Linux I have on this
> laptop found it difficult to use the Ethernet card* to
> get online.  I get lots of e-mail and wanted to clear
> out the ISP so I was able to get the Windows working
> and that is what is going on.
> 	*Farallon pcmcia card.
> 
> 	Hope to figure out what is going on with
> the Dell Dimension 2400 soon but it cannot even
> show the BIOS screen.
> 
> 	later
> 	Bobbie aka bliss at sfo dot com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 15:51:17 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:51:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help getting proper geocode data for google maps
In-Reply-To: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <683785120901201551v799de77dx52f5c137bf5247c8@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:38 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>   how to get that data?

Hi Jim, I don't know how the page author originally got that data for
the old location, but it seems like what you might want to do is just
regenerate the URL from Google Maps.  That is, enter the address into
Google Maps and copy the Link URL you get back:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=6157+Geary+Blvd,+San+Francisco,+San+Francisco,+California+94121&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FSV6QAIdfgSz-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&z=16&iwloc=addr



From jane_ikari at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 20 16:08:27 2009
From: jane_ikari at yahoo.com (bruce coston)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:08:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] to : Bobbie S.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1232481603.25972.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <177309.34353.qm@web65511.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I plan to haul many different distro to CABAL. on Sat. , see BALE linux events for more .? - Kilgore Starslayer Excelsior [gigante]
aka bruce



      
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Jan 20 16:25:51 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:25:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everybody,
I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight. A
colleague send me this link. http://www.cnn.com/themoment When I take
a look, it has something called PhotoSynth, which requires
Silverlight. This leads me to an install page, which then leads me to
a "See Novell" link. Upon "seeing Novell" I get a link to moonlight, a
Silverlight clone of some sort, I suppose. I install it in my browser,
but still, no luck.


This is just ridiculous! Of course, I could just avoid this whole web
thing and go live under a rock, but not quite in the mood for that
today. Anyone know of a group complaint form or some such thing so
that we can make a lot of complaints about this to sites like CNN?

I'm on Ubuntu 8.10

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From dennisharrison at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 16:55:32 2009
From: dennisharrison at gmail.com (Dennis J Harrison Jr)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:55:32 -0600
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6e8b29e0901201655i6a33dad9l91e71cd5b9cdabc9@mail.gmail.com>

This worked for me:

http://nancib.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/moonlight-got-easier-for-ubuntu-users/

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> Hi everybody,
> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight. A
> colleague send me this link. http://www.cnn.com/themoment When I take
> a look, it has something called PhotoSynth, which requires
> Silverlight. This leads me to an install page, which then leads me to
> a "See Novell" link. Upon "seeing Novell" I get a link to moonlight, a
> Silverlight clone of some sort, I suppose. I install it in my browser,
> but still, no luck.
>
>
> This is just ridiculous! Of course, I could just avoid this whole web
> thing and go live under a rock, but not quite in the mood for that
> today. Anyone know of a group complaint form or some such thing so
> that we can make a lot of complaints about this to sites like CNN?
>
> I'm on Ubuntu 8.10
>
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From john_re at fastmail.us  Tue Jan 20 16:55:46 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:55:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [BALUG-Talk] Webcaster wanted. Jan20 BALUG
 was-Re:Ubuntu [BALUG-Announce] BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle Rankin on Where'd
 my files go?
Message-ID: <1232499346.15485.1295868489@webmail.messagingengine.com>

My humorous cajole/invitation to get someone to record or stream the
BALUG talk.
Are you interested in doing the recording? Or just attending?

=====
It will be the hottest talk of all 2009, January.  The excitement!  The 
Babes!  The Dudes!  The Ubuntu technologists!  And you'll be there. 
Heading up the on-site technology team for the leading BALUG netcast in
the entire world!

That's right. You will use your superior technology skills & high tech
equipment (A cell phone?  A laptop??  A laptop with a _webcam_????????)
to send way hot photons & electrons dancing about the internet to audio
(& video?) stream, live, the hottest Ubuntu talk so far in 2009 to the
listeners eager to hear what you have heard, just milliseconds before!

Making use of the Powerful BerkeleyTIP-Global streaming VOIP
conferencing technology,
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip
you will add another feather to your resume (or something like that).

You might even be joined in the endeavor by BALUG SUPER-TECHNOLOGIST
Eric, netcaster extraordinaire from the November 2008 BALUG meeting.

I could not possibly hype this exciting technology volunteer position
further if I had dancing bears & dancing Fifes!

On a serious note, Stanford Chicks (& Dudes, for all I know) love
leading edge technology people, (see the Stanford Chick worshiping the
leading technologist in this photo):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/12/11/engelbart_celebration/page2.html

Also, your presence at the meeting will help push the total on site
attendance toward the magical "40" number, which will hopefully ensure
BALUG gets enough attendees to have dinner in the exotic, private, "2nd
story" room.

Game?  If you can dial a cell phone, & have a cell phone that can
transmit for an hour, with free cell minutes, from about 8 - 9 PM,
you're qualified!!  Better yet if you've got a hotter rig, and can
transmit from a a web cam through a laptop, or something, somehow.  All
workable ideas & warm bodies welcome.  :)

Can you dig it, __Maaaaaann__?????!  (Or __Womaaaaaaann__.)

=====

Please RSVP here, to this   "BALUG-talk"    list,
if you would like to help in this
effort.  Or, send in your helpful suggestions about how to get this
netcast accomplished, which will help spread Ubuntu knowledge throughout
the known world, & hopefully increase the usage & development of the
Ubuntu system.

If someone can do this, I can send out announcements around this here
little ol' Earth, & can see if some young, impressionable Berkeley
students might like to listen/watch your efforts.  -  Back last
November, on a mere 10 minutes advance notice, we had about 6 listeners
to the audio netcast.

Thanks.  :)

Will you help out??

=====
On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 00:47:48 -0800, some Berkeley guy
<Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> said:
> BALUG: Tu 2009-01-20 Kyle Rankin on Where'd my files go?
> 
> Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
> Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-01-20
> Kyle Rankin[1] on "Where'd my Files Go? - A guide to the Modern Ubuntu
> Distribution"

> **Why RSVP??**
> 
> Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
> Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to eat
> upstairs in the private banquet room.
> 
> Meeting Details...
> 
>     6:30pm
>     Tuesday, January 20th, 2009 2009-01-20
> 
>     Four Seas Restaurant
>     731 Grant Ave.
>     San Francisco, CA 94108
>     Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny
> 
> Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13
> 
> 
> http://www.balug.org/


===================================================
Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

While you might not be able to tell at a cursory glance, a lot has
changed behind the scenes on a modern Ubuntu system from what you
might be used to if you have used Linux for years. For example,
did you know Ubuntu is phasing out System V init? That you can't
loopback-mount the initrd? In this talk Kyle will discuss the
current changes Ubuntu is making to what we might consider the
traditional Linux system. There's a little something for everyone
on the talk: For Linux newbies who are curious about what's under
the hood Kyle will cover the traditional and modern boot process
including how init works and follow up with a guide to where
important files are in Ubuntu. For the experienced Linux user Kyle
will show you how (and why) things have changed and where you can
look now when you want to, for instance, change the default
runlevel on an Ubuntu system.

Kyle Rankin is a systems architect for Quinstreet, Inc.[2], the
current president of the North Bay Linux Users Group[3], the
author of Knoppix Hacks,[4] Knoppix Pocket Reference[5],
Linux Multimedia Hacks[6], and Ubuntu Hacks[7] and has
contributed to a number of other O'Reilly[8] books. Kyle is also
a columnist for Linux Journal[9] and has had articles featured in
PC Magazine[10], TechTarget[11] and other publications.

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

   rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat
upstairs in the private banquet room.

references/footnotes:
 1. http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/1849
 2. http://www.quinstreet.com/
 3. http://www.nblug.org/
 4. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596007874/
 5. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100759/
 6. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596100766/
 7. http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596527204/
 8. http://oreilly.com/
 9. http://www.linuxjournal.com/
10. http://www.pcmag.com/
11. http://www.techtarget.com/

http://www.balug.org/ 



From john_re at fastmail.us  Tue Jan 20 17:00:03 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:00:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [BALUG-Talk] Webcam Video & Audio SW for recording,
	&or streaming
Message-ID: <1232499603.15829.1295869695@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Aside: Hey - Obama became president of the USA today.  How great  :)

=====
What would be good SW(s) for Video & Audio recording an hour long or so
technical talk about Linux?  Something for use with a webcam &
microphone connected to a linux laptop?

Including things like - webcam setup, checkout, microphone volume level
monitoring & control, etc?

In case someone wanted to just record a talk, for preservation for
future viewers?
_______________________________________________
BALUG-Talk mailing list
http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org



From john_re at fastmail.us  Tue Jan 20 17:18:35 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:18:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [BALUG-Talk] CTO for BALUG - Help Wanted,
 Job Opportunity  (for forwarding) .BTG
Message-ID: <1232500715.19196.1295870407@webmail.messagingengine.com>

PPS:  SanFrancisco, in whose area the BA in BALUG is, was the location
of a very famous movie.   That's a note for readers who mightn't be
familiar with the source of the quotation in the "Help Wanted"
announcement below.  It's a very famous line, tied closely to the city
of Saint Francis.


----- Original message -----
From: "john_re" <john_re at fastmail.us>
To: "john_re" <john_re at fastmail.us>, balug-talk at lists.balug.org
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:58:57 -0800

Oh, well, upon rereading my announcement (for about the hundredth time)
once it came through the list, I conclude I should send this just sos
everyone knows the announcement was sent by a _member_ of BALUG, not by
official BALUG management.  For the humor perception impaired.  ;)

My humorous cajole/invitation to get someone to record or stream the
BALUG talk.
Are you interested in doing the recording? Or attending?


=======================================================================
----- Original message -----
From: "john_re" <john_re at fastmail.us>
To: balug-talk at lists.balug.org
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 02:28:56 -0800

JOB DESCRIPTION:  Implement & manage the audio & video streaming, &/or
recording & INet uploading, of BALUG.org talks at the January 20 2009 &
following monthly meetings.


=====
MINIMUM SKILLS REQUIRED:  Ability to use a cell phone.

MINIMUM EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:  Working cell phone.

PREFERRED SKILLS:
1) Ability to use laptop running GNU(Linux), microphone & camera/webcam
to capture, record, & stream live to internet.
2) Ability to politely & firmly handle the general public, BALUG
management, & peanut gallery.

PREFERRED EQUIPMENT:  Working laptop, microphone, wireless microphone,
video camera / webcam, & wireless internet access.

JOB LOCATION:  On site at the BALUG meeting, Four Seas Restaurant,
Chinatown, San Francisco, California.


=====
EXISTING TECHNOLOGY INFRASTRUCTURE:  The BerkeleyTIP-Global VOIP meeting
technology has been successfully used to transmit the November 2008
BALUG meeting.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip


=====
COMPENSATION / BENEFITS:  If you do some good for the community there is
a finite possibility someone might say "thank you" to you.

RISKS:  You might fail.

REALITY:  This is a hands on, high profile, high responsibility, C
Level, no monetary compensation, volunteer, you pay your own way,
OPPORTUNITY.

HIRING DATE:  Immediately, &/or before January 20 2009.


=====
JOB APPLICATION PROCEDURE:
1) Reply to this email, to the BALUG.org "BALUG-Talk" (not "admin")
mailing list, saying you're interested, you're willing to give it your
best effort, & 
2) ask the BALUG community for more info & details, & 
3) ask the BALUG community for assistance to you in this endeavor.
http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org


=====
NEXT to SEMI-FINAL THOUGHTS:
I know what you're thinking.  "Did he fire six shots or only five?" 
Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track
myself.  But being as this is THE CTO of BALUG position, the most
powerful job in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've
got to ask yourself one question:  "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do ya,
punk?


=====
CONSOLATION PRIZE:  Succeed or fail, there'll be at least one person
who'll be privately rooting for you, if you do your best.      ;)


=====
FINAL THOUGHTS:  Uh, so what'a you waitin' for - a printed invitation?  
    :)

==
http://www.balug.org/

==
You are welcome to forward this Help Wanted, Job Opportunity to anyone
you think might be interested.
john_re
_______________________________________________
BALUG-Talk mailing list
http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org



From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 17:28:33 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:28:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help getting proper geocode data for google maps
In-Reply-To: <683785120901201551v799de77dx52f5c137bf5247c8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>
	<683785120901201551v799de77dx52f5c137bf5247c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1232501313.6841.423.camel@jim-laptop>


thank you, jesse. 

   i'm sure i'm ignorant of something about this: 
* i bring up google in firefox 
* on the google page i click maps 
* on the maps page i enter 6157 geary boulevard, san francisco, ca 
* i get a map that i expect 
in the browser's address box is
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl 

   alternately, in the address box of a new firebox 
browser window i can type 
http://www.google.com/maps?q=6157+geary+boulevard,+san+francisco,+ca 
and get the map i expect. 

   what did you do to get the results you sent? 




On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 15:51 -0800, Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 2:38 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> >   how to get that data?
> 
> Hi Jim, I don't know how the page author originally got that data for
> the old location, but it seems like what you might want to do is just
> regenerate the URL from Google Maps.  That is, enter the address into
> Google Maps and copy the Link URL you get back:
> 
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=6157+Geary+Blvd,+San+Francisco,+San+Francisco,+California+94121&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&cd=1&geocode=FSV6QAIdfgSz-A&split=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=23.875,57.630033&z=16&iwloc=addr
> 




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 17:34:11 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:34:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
In-Reply-To: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
References: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Bobbie,

Jim Stockford mentioned that you might need parts.  We have lots and lots of
parts that you might be able to use at the school.  We just need to schedule
a time for you to come over.

We also need to schedule a triage session, because we have lots of halfway
working computers that we need to triage to produce working backup machines
and machines to give away to kids.
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From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 17:35:13 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:35:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help getting proper geocode data for google maps
In-Reply-To: <1232501313.6841.423.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>
	<683785120901201551v799de77dx52f5c137bf5247c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<1232501313.6841.423.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <683785120901201735m718c32d6qe22918cf8e38c9eb@mail.gmail.com>

No problem.  On the upper right part of the Google Map page are three
links marked "Print", "Send", and "Link".  "Link" shows the URL for
the current location.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 17:42:48 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:42:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight.


I just boycott sites using Silverlight.  Adobe Flash is not that much
better, but at least they are making their stuff available for the GNU-Linux
community.  Microsoft, of course, repeatedly states in their annual 10-k SEC
filings that open source software hurts their revenues, and, by implication,
that they are doing all they can to stop it.

There is so much content out there that can be viewed in Adobe Flash on
Linux, so why do I need to bother with Silverlight?  I don't and won't.
Obviously, YMMV.
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Jan 20 17:55:25 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:55:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi everybody,
>> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight.
>
> I just boycott sites using Silverlight.  Adobe Flash is not that much
> better, but at least they are making their stuff available for the GNU-Linux
> community.  Microsoft, of course, repeatedly states in their annual 10-k SEC
> filings that open source software hurts their revenues, and, by implication,
> that they are doing all they can to stop it.
>
> There is so much content out there that can be viewed in Adobe Flash on
> Linux, so why do I need to bother with Silverlight?  I don't and won't.
> Obviously, YMMV.
>
>

Evidently, I'm not the only one. http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3302

Then there is the question of why should the Office of the President
of the United States of America use a system that limits access to
certain types of platforms only.

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 18:01:48 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:01:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901201801x45550250t1c17498512ba6588@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

>
> Then there is the question of why should the Office of the President
> of the United States of America use a system that limits access to
> certain types of platforms only.


Because Microsoft is a good campaign donor.

Lessig really has it right with his new focus on getting money out of
government.
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From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 18:05:11 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:05:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] need help getting proper geocode data for google maps
In-Reply-To: <683785120901201735m718c32d6qe22918cf8e38c9eb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1232491089.6841.403.camel@jim-laptop>
	<683785120901201551v799de77dx52f5c137bf5247c8@mail.gmail.com>
	<1232501313.6841.423.camel@jim-laptop>
	<683785120901201735m718c32d6qe22918cf8e38c9eb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1232503511.6841.427.camel@jim-laptop>



aha! voila! many thanks. 


On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 17:35 -0800, Jesse Zbikowski wrote:
> No problem.  On the upper right part of the Google Map page are three
> links marked "Print", "Send", and "Link".  "Link" shows the URL for
> the current location.
> 




From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 18:08:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:08:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
	<4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1232503702.6841.431.camel@jim-laptop>


   do you have a tentative date for your 
triage session? who would be welcome to 
participate? what would be involved: 
* evaluating machines to see which parts 
seem to work? 
* unscrewing screws and dismantling boxes 
and parts? 
* assembling working machines out of good 
parts? 
* installing linux on working computers? 
* other? 

   if the above is not too far off, what 
would be the chances that people coming to 
help would be able to get parts and/or even 
a working computer? 



On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 17:34 -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi Bobbie,
> 
> Jim Stockford mentioned that you might need parts.  We have lots and
> lots of parts that you might be able to use at the school.  We just
> need to schedule a time for you to come over.  
> 
> We also need to schedule a triage session, because we have lots of
> halfway working computers that we need to triage to produce working
> backup machines and machines to give away to kids. 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From dssstrkl at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 18:11:08 2009
From: dssstrkl at gmail.com (Paul Ward)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:11:08 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <311C57A0-5A58-42F2-A744-78A306FB3EF9@gmail.com>

I didn't notice any silverlight content on whitehouse.gov or really  
any flash beyond YouTube videos. In fact, whitehouse.gov seems to be  
very W3C compliant and dropped the list of proscribed entries on the  
robots.txt file from 2400 to two.

CNN isn't under the control of the White House, and isn't really all  
that interested in openness or total access ie if windows and mac  
users can use it, that's good enough.

Paul Ward

Sent from my iPhone
(So please excuse any terseness or typos)

On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everybody,
>>> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight.
>>
>> I just boycott sites using Silverlight.  Adobe Flash is not that much
>> better, but at least they are making their stuff available for the  
>> GNU-Linux
>> community.  Microsoft, of course, repeatedly states in their annual  
>> 10-k SEC
>> filings that open source software hurts their revenues, and, by  
>> implication,
>> that they are doing all they can to stop it.
>>
>> There is so much content out there that can be viewed in Adobe  
>> Flash on
>> Linux, so why do I need to bother with Silverlight?  I don't and  
>> won't.
>> Obviously, YMMV.
>>
>>
>
> Evidently, I'm not the only one. http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3302
>
> Then there is the question of why should the Office of the President
> of the United States of America use a system that limits access to
> certain types of platforms only.
>
> Sameer
> -- 
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 20 18:11:41 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:11:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: UG News--Web Development/SEO Meetup Thursday in
	Mountain	View]
Message-ID: <1232503902.6841.436.camel@jim-laptop>



Web Development/SEO Meetup, This Thursday January 22nd in Mountain View

O'Reilly Found Conference program co-chairs, Vanessa Fox and Nate Buggia
are planning a Web Development / SEO meet-up this Thursday, January 22
at Ooyala in Mountain View.

Nate and Vanessa will be on hand to answer all your pressing
search-related questions, so if you?re a web developer who wants to
learn more about making web apps search-friendly or if you?re an SEO
who?s interested in the technical side of search engine optimization,
come on out! We?ll get things started around 6:00pm and start the
questions around 7:00. There should be plenty of time for networking,
and lots of drinks and snacks! If you plan to attend and would like a
mini site review, just post the URL, along with your questions here:
http://www.ninebyblue.com/blog/web-developmentseo-meetup-this-thursday-january-22nd-in-mountain-view/


RSVP and get directions at Upcoming:
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1502760/


================================================================

Marsee Henon
User Group Manager
O'Reilly
1005 Gravenstein Highway North
Sebastopol, CA   95472
800-998-9938
http://ug.oreilly.com/
Follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/OReillyMedia






From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 18:20:03 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:20:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901201820q34dd63d9y5d14a875bdfaad50@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight.


http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight

Miguel de Icaza twittered about this issue:

http://twitter.com/migueldeicaza
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 20 19:34:38 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:34:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
In-Reply-To: <1232503702.6841.431.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
	<4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>
	<1232503702.6841.431.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901201934n3784fa5flfecedd13fd991c7d@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:08 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   do you have a tentative date for your
> triage session?


No date yet.  I am waiting to see what will happen with ACCRC.org.


> who would be welcome to
> participate?


We will need people who can fix machines.  The emphasis will be on quality,
not quantity.  We want to build and throughly test machines, so that they
really work when done.


> what would be involved:
> * evaluating machines to see which parts
> seem to work?
> * unscrewing screws and dismantling boxes
> and parts?
> * assembling working machines out of good
> parts?
> * installing linux on working computers?


Yes to all of the above.


> * other?
>
>   if the above is not too far off, what
> would be the chances that people coming to
> help would be able to get parts and/or even
> a working computer?
>

I would love it if everyone came with an idea of a person who needed a
computer, and if that person would mentor that recipient in the use of the
computer.  As Jim Stockford and I found out today, simply providing
computers is not enough.  Maintaining social ties with the recipient is far
more successful.

One of the most successful and remarkable examples of this truism is the
work of Holden Aust, the guy who built my first GNU-Linux machine.  Holden
strives less for large number than for on-going contacts with the people he
supports.  And he has successfully moved lots of people to Linux.

Another good example is the school.  For 4.5 years, we have had a presence
in that school because we have done the _little_ things, such as replacing
machines when they conk out, and spending time there getting to know the
people.  If you are not familiar to people, they will not call you when the
machine conks out, they will just set it aside, as Jim Stockford and I
learned today.

Jim and I went to a girls' after-school program in the SOMA district of SF.
We had dropped of a computer there, and I occasionally called up the
director to see how she was doing with the machine, but I got non-committal
responses.  "Oh, we haven't really tried it yet."  "oh, it's fine.  I think
the girls are using it a bit."  In reality, it never took off there.  I
believe that is because this non-profit is an intensely woman-focused space,
and we big hairy guys were really just very much out of place there.  We
offered to answer any questions that the program staffers had, but they just
did not resonate with us.  We were just foreigners.  They had no ties with
us, no basis for trusting us, nothing in common with us, and little desire
to speak with us.

I have said it before and I will say it again, we in the SF-LUG community
are not doing enough for diversity.  We need more women, more gays, more
African Americans, more Latinos, and more recent Asian immigrants.  As long
as we remain a group of predominantly Caucasian heterosexual men, we will
not reach our potential as a group.  We are a good group of decent, earnest
people, but we simply lack the life experiences that we need to reach beyond
our current prevailing demographic.

GNU-Linux is a wonderful, stable, flexible OS with tons of wonderful apps,
but our reach in SF will always be limited as long as we remain a group of
predominantly Caucasian heterosexual male engineers.

There are very vibrant GNU-Linux communities in other countries, especially
non-English speaking countries like Spain and Brazil.  We need to do more to
connect with those communities and connect the dots between those off-shore
communities and their SF counterparts.

We need more women.  Period.

Do we have any gay members?

How many active African Americans do we have?  Asians?

I would welcome any suggestions as to how we can increase our reach.  I
believe that a more stable presence at St. Anthony's would be one avenue.
Another method would be for us to simple draw up a list of community orgs
and ask to go speak at the board meetings of those orgs.  I think we need to
visit more groups and just say hello and let them know we are here.  That
would be a start.
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Jan 20 20:29:50 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:29:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <311C57A0-5A58-42F2-A744-78A306FB3EF9@gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901201742j79fc3343id4ae072f7980b8f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70901201755wfb69552nd4cfe8110b44afeb@mail.gmail.com>
	<311C57A0-5A58-42F2-A744-78A306FB3EF9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70901202029kbc4cd5cgf04ae64df4bb9792@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Paul Ward <dssstrkl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I didn't notice any silverlight content on whitehouse.gov or really any
> flash beyond YouTube videos. In fact, whitehouse.gov seems to be very W3C
> compliant and dropped the list of proscribed entries on the robots.txt file
> from 2400 to two.
>

I concur. I took a look at the site as well.

> CNN isn't under the control of the White House, and isn't really all that
> interested in openness or total access ie if windows and mac users can use
> it, that's good enough.
>

I'd imagine the proponents of Silverlight must have thought, what a
great way to get people to install our plug-ins! In some ways its just
like installing Adobe's Flash. Some give in, while others don't. Its
just that for Flash, there is an alternative, but for Silverlight,
unless you add ppa repos for Ubuntu (don't know about other distros)
it simply loops into a "Not supported" page.

Sameer

> Paul Ward
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> (So please excuse any terseness or typos)
>
> On Jan 20, 2009, at 5:55 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> I am quite honestly getting tired of Microsoft's Silverlight.
>>>
>>> I just boycott sites using Silverlight.  Adobe Flash is not that much
>>> better, but at least they are making their stuff available for the
>>> GNU-Linux
>>> community.  Microsoft, of course, repeatedly states in their annual 10-k
>>> SEC
>>> filings that open source software hurts their revenues, and, by
>>> implication,
>>> that they are doing all they can to stop it.
>>>
>>> There is so much content out there that can be viewed in Adobe Flash on
>>> Linux, so why do I need to bother with Silverlight?  I don't and won't.
>>> Obviously, YMMV.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Evidently, I'm not the only one.
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3302
>>
>> Then there is the question of why should the Office of the President
>> of the United States of America use a system that limits access to
>> certain types of platforms only.
>>
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor of Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan 20 22:19:15 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:19:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] getting tired of Silverlight...
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901201820q34dd63d9y5d14a875bdfaad50@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70901201625t5fed2835o699044dc604b5b25@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901201820q34dd63d9y5d14a875bdfaad50@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090121061915.GI16400@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> http://www.go-mono.com/moonlight

If there's anyone who still hasn't heard why Microsoft Corp.'s patent
encumbrances -- which they use to control commercial rights[1] -- render
Mono Project's "Moonlight" runtime (functionally) proprietary and legally
dangerous, read the debian-devel thread, starting with Robert Millan's
post: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/10/msg00063.html

[1] See "Patents" comments on http://www.mono-project.com/Licensing
and
http://web.archive.org/web/20030424174805/http://mailserver.di.unipi.it/pipermail/dotnet-sscli/msg00218.html




From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 21 10:01:47 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:01:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd: [Lf-announce] Registration and CFP Now Open for
	Linux	Foundation 2009 Collaboration Summit]
Message-ID: <1232560907.6841.506.camel@jim-laptop>


on april 8-10 at the kabuki hotel in sf. 
click links below to see their call for 
proposed talks (closes february 15). 



-------- Forwarded Message --------
From: Linux Foundation <events at linux-foundation.org>
To: lf-announce at linux-foundation.org
Subject: [Lf-announce] Registration and CFP Now Open for Linux
Foundation 2009 Collaboration Summit
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:35:17 -0800

++Registration and Call for Participation Now Open for 2009
Collaboration Summit++

The Linux Foundation is pleased to announce the opening of
registration and call for participation for the 3rd Annual
Collaboration Summit which will take place April 8-10, 2009 in San
Francisco.

Sponsored by Intel in 2009, the Collaboration Summit is an exclusive,
invitation-only gathering of the brightest minds in Linux, including
core kernel developers, distribution maintainers, ISVs, end users,
system vendors and other community organizations. It is the only
conference designed to accelerate collaboration and encourage
solutions by bringing together a true cross-section of leaders to meet
face-to-face to tackle and solve the most pressing issues facing Linux
today.

Agenda items for this year's Collaboration Summit include:

-- the Moblin Development Summit
-- High Performance Computing
-- Systems Management
-- the Linux ISV Summit

as well as meetings of LF workgroups such as Open Printing, the LSB
and collaboration among its end user, vendor and technical advisory
councils.

The Annual Collaboration Summit will be co-located with the CELF
Embedded Linux Conference and the Linux Storage and Filesystem
Workshop. The winner of the "I'm Linux" video contest will also be
revealed at the Summit, where the winning video and honorable mentions
will be screened for the event's attendees.

For more information on the Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit,
please visit: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/collaboration-summit.

To request an invitation, please visit:
http://events.linuxfoundation.org/component/registrationpro/?func=details&did=2.

For the first time, the Linux Foundation is inviting all members of
the Linux and open source software communities to submit a proposal
for its Annual Collaboration Summit, its cornerstone event. CFP
submissions are due February 15, 2009.  To submit a proposal, please
visit: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/collaboration-summit.
_______________________________________________
Lf-announce mailing list
Lf-announce at lists.linux-foundation.org
https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/lf-announce





From bliss at sfo.com  Wed Jan 21 11:42:49 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (bobbie sellers)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:42:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting at Euro Cafe 01/19/2009
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49761AEE.8020109@sfo.com>
	<4b5781040901201734s32467ea0g80af8a4ae7697409@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49777AB9.9000405@sfo.com>

Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> Hi Bobbie,
> 
> Jim Stockford mentioned that you might need parts.  We have lots and lots of
> parts that you might be able to use at the school.  We just need to schedule
> a time for you to come over.

	Christian first I have to figure out what is going on with the
machine a bit more.  Unfortunately and due in part to the demands of the
my housework I got extremely tired or exhausted.  I might feel up to
dealing with the Dimension again by Thursday or Friday, but I won't
bother you or anyone else until I have disconnected all the peripherals
and seen if that will give me the BIOS screen.

	In the meantime I have to try to install something besides
Mephis on the laptop so that I can use it in something besides XP
mode which is driving me up the wall.

	I want to thank everyone who offered to help.

> 
> We also need to schedule a triage session, because we have lots of halfway
> working computers that we need to triage to produce working backup machines
> and machines to give away to kids.
> 
	later
	Bobbie Sellers bliss at sfo dot com



From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 21 11:53:20 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:53:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] This saturday, SFCCP yardsale, used equipment swap meet
Message-ID: <1232567600.6841.529.camel@jim-laptop>


if you're interested in buying or selling computer 
gear, don't forget: 

---------------------
http://yardsale.sfccp.net/  
 
when:
SATURDAY, JANUARY 24, 2009
10:30AM - 4:00PM
 
where:
MONKEYBRAINS.NET
984 Folsom Street (SOMA) - second floor
San Francisco, CA 94107
http://tinyurl.com/sfyardsale




From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Thu Jan 22 14:52:43 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 22 Jan 2009 17:52:43 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?
Message-ID: <32645117.1232664765459.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Looking for a little help in defining the Job Description... Anyone make sense of this:

 

We are looking for a software engineer with a strong experience in C++ code development (under the Microsoft Visual IDE on the Windows platform), and a good knowledge of OpenGL fundamentals. The candidate should be well-versed with modern UI design (graphics and animation based). Previous experience with the CVS revision control software is preferable. Creative graphic design skills and knowledge of image editing software are a plus. The candidate should be self-motivated, able to accommodate a tight project schedule, and display convincing teamwork skills. 

Duties: 
Embedded Linux Applications Development (C/C++) 
Will be developing application SW in this environment such as; (User Interface (UI) for EPG (Electronic Program Guide) Pay Per View, Browser etc. 

 

 

 

The windows Visual IDE on windows platform seems to conflict with the embedded Linux Applications Development.

 

Anyone able to explain what they might be doing here? Or is this just the case of an employer looking for two jobs to fit into one. 

 



Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


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From nathan at foo-o-rama.com  Thu Jan 22 14:57:49 2009
From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:57:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?
In-Reply-To: <32645117.1232664765459.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
References: <32645117.1232664765459.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
Message-ID: <22a0b8070901221457y20df4ad6oc66294800b8eea60@mail.gmail.com>

It's a position developing set-top box software. They're doing engineering
on a Windows platform but the deployment is on a Linux-based STB.

Nathan

2009/1/22 Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com>

> Looking for a little help in defining the Job Description... Anyone make
> sense of this:
>
> We are looking for a software engineer with a strong experience in C++ code
> development (under the Microsoft Visual IDE on the Windows platform), and a
> good knowledge of OpenGL fundamentals. The candidate should be well-versed
> with modern UI design (graphics and animation based). Previous experience
> with the CVS revision control software is preferable. Creative graphic
> design skills and knowledge of image editing software are a plus. The
> candidate should be self-motivated, able to accommodate a tight project
> schedule, and display convincing teamwork skills.
>
> Duties:
> Embedded Linux Applications Development (C/C++)
> Will be developing application SW in this environment such as; (User
> Interface (UI) for EPG (Electronic Program Guide) Pay Per View, Browser etc.
>
>
>
>
> The windows Visual IDE on windows platform seems to conflict with the
> embedded Linux Applications Development.
>
> Anyone able to explain what they might be doing here? Or is this just the
> case of an employer looking for two jobs to fit into one.
>
>
> Blake Haggerty
> Permanent Placement Specialist
> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
> 27 Maiden Lane
> San Francisco, CA 94108
> (p) (415) 788-8488
> (f) (415) 788-2592
> www.sapphirena.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Thu Jan 22 15:41:07 2009
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:41:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?
In-Reply-To: <22a0b8070901221457y20df4ad6oc66294800b8eea60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32645117.1232664765459.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
	<22a0b8070901221457y20df4ad6oc66294800b8eea60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2f8a56f70901221541g6b5e5c47gaacb62a536595b01@mail.gmail.com>

That approach strikes me as a bit backwards.  Wouldn't it make more sense to
use Eclipse on Linux, if Linux/OpenGL is the target platform and having an
IDE to ease development is desired?  Not to mention that it may be difficult
to find Linux experts who are willing to be forced to develop in a Windows
environment.  It also doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a C++
developer (for any platform) to have any significant
professionally-applicable graphic design skill (which supports the notion
that they're trying to force two jobs into one).

Sounds to me like they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too.

Just my $0.02.

2009/1/22 Nathan Hoover <nathan at foo-o-rama.com>

> It's a position developing set-top box software. They're doing engineering
> on a Windows platform but the deployment is on a Linux-based STB.
>
> Nathan
>
> 2009/1/22 Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com>
>
>> Looking for a little help in defining the Job Description... Anyone make
>> sense of this:
>>
>> We are looking for a software engineer with a strong experience in C++
>> code development (under the Microsoft Visual IDE on the Windows platform),
>> and a good knowledge of OpenGL fundamentals. The candidate should be
>> well-versed with modern UI design (graphics and animation based). Previous
>> experience with the CVS revision control software is preferable. Creative
>> graphic design skills and knowledge of image editing software are a plus.
>> The candidate should be self-motivated, able to accommodate a tight project
>> schedule, and display convincing teamwork skills.
>>
>> Duties:
>> Embedded Linux Applications Development (C/C++)
>> Will be developing application SW in this environment such as; (User
>> Interface (UI) for EPG (Electronic Program Guide) Pay Per View, Browser etc.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The windows Visual IDE on windows platform seems to conflict with the
>> embedded Linux Applications Development.
>>
>> Anyone able to explain what they might be doing here? Or is this just the
>> case of an employer looking for two jobs to fit into one.
>>
>>
>> Blake Haggerty
>> Permanent Placement Specialist
>> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
>> 27 Maiden Lane
>> San Francisco, CA 94108
>> (p) (415) 788-8488
>> (f) (415) 788-2592
>> www.sapphirena.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
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From nathan at foo-o-rama.com  Thu Jan 22 15:45:18 2009
From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:45:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?
In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70901221541g6b5e5c47gaacb62a536595b01@mail.gmail.com>
References: <32645117.1232664765459.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
	<22a0b8070901221457y20df4ad6oc66294800b8eea60@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f8a56f70901221541g6b5e5c47gaacb62a536595b01@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <22a0b8070901221545t22e7a29fp980bdbf99dbfea27@mail.gmail.com>

I don't disagree on any count, but as an engineering manager, I can say that
finding the one right guy (or gal) is frequently well worth the wait rather
than lowering one's standards and just getting some warm bodies in the door.

Nathan

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Jeff Bragg <jackofnotrades at gmail.com>wrote:

> That approach strikes me as a bit backwards.  Wouldn't it make more sense
> to use Eclipse on Linux, if Linux/OpenGL is the target platform and having
> an IDE to ease development is desired?  Not to mention that it may be
> difficult to find Linux experts who are willing to be forced to develop in a
> Windows environment.  It also doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a C++
> developer (for any platform) to have any significant
> professionally-applicable graphic design skill (which supports the notion
> that they're trying to force two jobs into one).
>
> Sounds to me like they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too.
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> 2009/1/22 Nathan Hoover <nathan at foo-o-rama.com>
>
> It's a position developing set-top box software. They're doing engineering
>> on a Windows platform but the deployment is on a Linux-based STB.
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> 2009/1/22 Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com>
>>
>>> Looking for a little help in defining the Job Description... Anyone make
>>> sense of this:
>>>
>>> We are looking for a software engineer with a strong experience in C++
>>> code development (under the Microsoft Visual IDE on the Windows platform),
>>> and a good knowledge of OpenGL fundamentals. The candidate should be
>>> well-versed with modern UI design (graphics and animation based). Previous
>>> experience with the CVS revision control software is preferable. Creative
>>> graphic design skills and knowledge of image editing software are a plus.
>>> The candidate should be self-motivated, able to accommodate a tight project
>>> schedule, and display convincing teamwork skills.
>>>
>>> Duties:
>>> Embedded Linux Applications Development (C/C++)
>>> Will be developing application SW in this environment such as; (User
>>> Interface (UI) for EPG (Electronic Program Guide) Pay Per View, Browser etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The windows Visual IDE on windows platform seems to conflict with the
>>> embedded Linux Applications Development.
>>>
>>> Anyone able to explain what they might be doing here? Or is this just the
>>> case of an employer looking for two jobs to fit into one.
>>>
>>>
>>> Blake Haggerty
>>> Permanent Placement Specialist
>>> Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company
>>> 27 Maiden Lane
>>> San Francisco, CA 94108
>>> (p) (415) 788-8488
>>> (f) (415) 788-2592
>>> www.sapphirena.com
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>>
>
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Thu Jan 22 15:46:03 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 22 Jan 2009 18:46:03 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?
Message-ID: <25135215.1232667965800.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Well the Linux and Windows crossing seemed strange, but from Nathan's Description that made much more sense. 

 

But your right, I know allot and I mean allot of C/C++ Developers and I don't believe that very many of them have much or any Graphic design skills.  


Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From:Jeff Bragg jackofnotrades at gmail.com 
To: "Nathan Hoover" <nathan at foo-o-rama.com>;
Cc: "Blake Haggerty" <Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com>, "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>;
Sent: Jan 22, 2009 03:41:09 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Help Defining a Job Description?

That approach strikes me as a bit backwards.  Wouldn't it make more sense to use Eclipse on Linux, if Linux/OpenGL is the target platform and having an IDE to ease development is desired?  Not to mention that it may be difficult to find Linux experts who are willing to be forced to develop in a Windows environment.  It also doesn't seem reasonable to me to expect a C++ developer (for any platform) to have any significant professionally-applicable graphic design skill (which supports the notion that they're trying to force two jobs into one).

Sounds to me like they're trying to have their cake and eat it, too.

Just my $0.02.


2009/1/22 Nathan Hoover <nathan at foo-o-rama.com>


It's a position developing set-top box software. They're doing engineering on a Windows platform but the deployment is on a Linux-based STB.

Nathan


2009/1/22 Blake Haggerty <Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com>








Looking for a little help in defining the Job Description... Anyone make sense of this:

 

We are looking for a software engineer with a strong experience in C++ code development (under the Microsoft Visual IDE on the Windows platform), and a good knowledge of OpenGL fundamentals. The candidate should be well-versed with modern UI design (graphics and animation based). Previous experience with the CVS revision control software is preferable. Creative graphic design skills and knowledge of image editing software are a plus. The candidate should be self-motivated, able to accommodate a tight project schedule, and display convincing teamwork skills. 

Duties: 
Embedded Linux Applications Development (C/C++) 
Will be developing application SW in this environment such as; (User Interface (UI) for EPG (Electronic Program Guide) Pay Per View, Browser etc. 

 

 

 

The windows Visual IDE on windows platform seems to conflict with the embedded Linux Applications Development.

 

Anyone able to explain what they might be doing here? Or is this just the case of an employer looking for two jobs to fit into one. 

 



Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com





_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Fri Jan 23 08:55:01 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 23 Jan 2009 11:55:01 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....
Message-ID: <16579221.1232729703673.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Friend of mine saw my Ubuntu setup and wanted to try it himself. I went over to his house last night and setup a dual boot on his machine. His computer is connected to a Mitsubishi LCD 46" television. Via DVI 2 HDMI I was able to get all the Nvidia drivers installed on it running in what should be the correct resolution 1920x1080, But the desktop does not fit on the screen. (Cant see the toolbar, Applications, System, Places...etc)

 

Everything I have googled just talks about resolution and how to change that. I can change the resolution but it doesn't really help (makes everything really ugly and still doesn't completely fit on screen)  

 

I have this working on my home computer but I cant remember for the life of me how I did it, (I do remember it took some fiddling) I tried using my xorg.conf which did not work.

 

Any Ideas? 

 

 



Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Fri Jan 23 10:17:52 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:17:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....
In-Reply-To: <16579221.1232729703673.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
References: <16579221.1232729703673.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901231309200.14992@vellum.laroia.net>

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Blake Haggerty wrote:

> Friend of mine saw my Ubuntu setup and wanted to try it himself. I went 
> over to his house last night and setup a dual boot on his machine. His 
> computer is connected to a Mitsubishi LCD 46" television. Via DVI 2 HDMI 
> I was able to get all the Nvidia drivers installed on it running in what 
> should be the correct resolution 1920x1080, But the desktop does not fit 
> on the screen. (Cant see the toolbar, Applications, System, 
> Places...etc)
>
> Everything I have googled just talks about resolution and how to change 
> that. I can change the resolution but it doesn't really help (makes 
> everything really ugly and still doesn't completely fit on screen)

On a TV? Sounds to me like overscan.

> I have this working on my home computer but I cant remember for the life 
> of me how I did it, (I do remember it took some fiddling) I tried using 
> my xorg.conf which did not work.

I haven't dealt with overscan since I ran Linux on an Xbox. I don't know 
if current digital TVs do that. (And I would guess not!)

There used to be a GUI TV tuner configuration tool I used when I used TV 
out. On the Xbox there was some obscure CLI tool that worked against the 
onboard NVidia chip it had.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Afternoon very favorable for romance.  Try a single person for a change.



From tom at greenleaftech.net  Fri Jan 23 13:00:06 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:00:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901231309200.14992@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <16579221.1232729703673.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901231309200.14992@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <1232744406.7379.48.camel@hurlyburly>

On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 13:17 -0500, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Blake Haggerty wrote:
> 
> > Friend of mine saw my Ubuntu setup and wanted to try it himself. I went 
> > over to his house last night and setup a dual boot on his machine. His 
> > computer is connected to a Mitsubishi LCD 46" television. Via DVI 2 HDMI 
> > I was able to get all the Nvidia drivers installed on it running in what 
> > should be the correct resolution 1920x1080, But the desktop does not fit 
> > on the screen. (Cant see the toolbar, Applications, System, 
> > Places...etc)
> >
> > Everything I have googled just talks about resolution and how to change 
> > that. I can change the resolution but it doesn't really help (makes 
> > everything really ugly and still doesn't completely fit on screen)
> 
> On a TV? Sounds to me like overscan.

Yeah, depending on the model of Nvidia card you have, there may be a
setting on the "Nvidia Settings" GUI (can't remember the proper name) to
adjust this value. Look for anything related to overscan. The bad news
is, if it's not there, I don't think that particular version supports it
- in other words you're stuck with it. I run MythTV (well Mythbuntu) at
home on a TV and I have overscan, and an Nvidia card that doesn't allow
me to adjust overscan. So I use MythTV's custom settings to set the size
of the GUI to fit the screen.

Cheers, Tom

> 
> > I have this working on my home computer but I cant remember for the life 
> > of me how I did it, (I do remember it took some fiddling) I tried using 
> > my xorg.conf which did not work.
> 
> I haven't dealt with overscan since I ran Linux on an Xbox. I don't know 
> if current digital TVs do that. (And I would guess not!)
> 
> There used to be a GUI TV tuner configuration tool I used when I used TV 
> out. On the Xbox there was some obscure CLI tool that worked against the 
> onboard NVidia chip it had.
> 
> -- Asheesh.
> 
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From phillip.tribble at gmail.com  Fri Jan 23 13:22:30 2009
From: phillip.tribble at gmail.com (phillip tribble)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:22:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Mephisto Backup v1.1Beta (Ghost Like clone)
Message-ID: <598ed5ff0901231322h6924b9d9mc109e76dbc6e5513@mail.gmail.com>

Mephisto Backup v1.1Beta has been released. This program can do simple
backups and syncs over a network or locally.; it uses tar and rsync in the
background. The key feature of this program is the ability to backup your
system to an image and copy it to a Linux Live DVD for future restoration.
The user can then take that cd and move his or her system to any PC.


http://rusher.webhop.org/wordpress/?page_id=210

http://code.google.com/p/mephistobackup/

-- 
Phillip Tribble
Rushers Blog
http://rusher.webhop.org
"If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step behind"
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Fri Jan 23 13:47:23 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 23 Jan 2009 16:47:23 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....
Message-ID: <4080836.1232747248164.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Hmmm... I was looking all over his Nvidia Settings for something to fix this but never thought of overscan (never even heard of it till now...) So I don't remember if it had them or not. I'll check it out this weekend and report back...

Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com



 

-----Original Message-----
From:Tom Haddon tom at greenleaftech.net 
To: "Asheesh Laroia" ;
Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" , "Blake Haggerty" ;
Sent: Jan 23, 2009 01:03:10 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....

On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 13:17 -0500, Asheesh Laroia wrote: 
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Blake Haggerty wrote: 
> 
> > Friend of mine saw my Ubuntu setup and wanted to try it himself. I went 
> > over to his house last night and setup a dual boot on his machine. His 
> > computer is connected to a Mitsubishi LCD 46" television. Via DVI 2 HDMI 
> > I was able to get all the Nvidia drivers installed on it running in what 
> > should be the correct resolution 1920x1080, But the desktop does not fit 
> > on the screen. (Cant see the toolbar, Applications, System, 
> > Places...etc) 
> > 
> > Everything I have googled just talks about resolution and how to change 
> > that. I can change the resolution but it doesn't really help (makes 
> > everything really ugly and still doesn't completely fit on screen) 
> 
> On a TV? Sounds to me like overscan. 

Yeah, depending on the model of Nvidia card you have, there may be a 
setting on the "Nvidia Settings" GUI (can't remember the proper name) to 
adjust this value. Look for anything related to overscan. The bad news 
is, if it's not there, I don't think that particular version supports it 
- in other words you're stuck with it. I run MythTV (well Mythbuntu) at 
home on a TV and I have overscan, and an Nvidia card that doesn't allow 
me to adjust overscan. So I use MythTV's custom settings to set the size 
of the GUI to fit the screen. 

Cheers, Tom 

> 
> > I have this working on my home computer but I cant remember for the life 
> > of me how I did it, (I do remember it took some fiddling) I tried using 
> > my xorg.conf which did not work. 
> 
> I haven't dealt with overscan since I ran Linux on an Xbox. I don't know 
> if current digital TVs do that. (And I would guess not!) 
> 
> There used to be a GUI TV tuner configuration tool I used when I used TV 
> out. On the Xbox there was some obscure CLI tool that worked against the 
> onboard NVidia chip it had. 
> 
> -- Asheesh. 
> 

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From bliss at sfo.com  Fri Jan 23 16:47:13 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:47:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
Message-ID: <497A6511.1060403@sfo.com>


    So today I pulled out the graphics card and its fan
    Disconnected the DVD Drive and plugged it in again
and again the only thing that happend is that the PS and
the CPU fans run.
    No BIOS screen what so ever.

    So the next step I guess is too get it to a shop that
can tell me more.

    Meantime on the Dell Inspiron 4000 laptop I installed Mandriva 2008.1
to replace the Mephis that could not seem to recognize the old PCMCIA
Ethernet card.  Mandriva had no problem with this card.  I would have been
in a good place but had to deal with AT&T over the password to get to
my DSL account.  That is a hassle that I will need to finish working with.
But I have a minature password that should be changed ASAP.

    As long as I don't overload the 700 MHz Pentium 3 it seems to be
comfortable.  Having a problem with the printer but expect to
straighten that out soon.

    later
    Bobbie Sellers



From bliss at sfo.com  Fri Jan 23 19:56:48 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:56:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <dc4b6aae0901231932j4d9c7708ya2e2daa6beb36081@mail.gmail.com>
References: <497A6511.1060403@sfo.com>
	<dc4b6aae0901231932j4d9c7708ya2e2daa6beb36081@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <497A9180.90701@sfo.com>

Ken Shaffer wrote:
> Hi Bobbie,
> Does the hard disk spin up?  When they freeze, you don't get much.  I 
> had one which I had to whack with
> a pencil to free it up after is sat unused over a weekend.  Western 
> Digital admitted to a hardware issue
> and replaced it.
> Good Luck
> Another Amiga Fan (have you seen the Cloanto emulation?)
> Ken 
>
    The light for what it is worth comes on but the BIOS doesn't show at 
all,
so whether the drive spins or not is immaterial it seems to me.

    The Inspiron 4000 is working fine but running linux it has problems
sending the video to an external monitor so I am using an external
kb and mouse to control it most of the time while my great monitor
is setting behind the loose laptop screen to hold it in position.

    But I am getting stuff done and the printer is now working.

    Yes I have the Cloanto "Amiga Forever" from a couple of years ago.
You wouldn't know how to run it under Mandriva?  The Windows partition
won't even load so I cannot recover it presently but I may have the
needed files on another old hard drive and may be able to get it
working again.  Not really sure that I want to do that except to play
CathAngband or another dungeon crawl.
   
    You know setting up the Farallon card to run with Knoppix was a pain
and it wasn't properly recognized under the version of Mephis I had
but Mandriva got it correct without having to look up the chip set.

    later
    Bobbie Sellers



From bliss at sfo.com  Fri Jan 23 21:10:00 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:10:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <198466.97358.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <198466.97358.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <497AA2A8.6080300@sfo.com>

John F. Strazzarino wrote:
> Bobbie,
>
> I had the exact same issue (PS and CPU fans run, but nothing else) with a machine.  It was the power supply.  It appears that only 1 side of the power supply was working.
>
> John
>   
>
>   

    Thanks John, for your useful response. 
    later
    Bobbie Sellers

> --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com>
>> Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
>> To: taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com, "SF-LUG" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 4:47 PM
>> So today I pulled out the graphics card and its fan
>>     Disconnected the DVD Drive and plugged it in again
>> and again the only thing that happend is that the PS and
>> the CPU fans run.
>>     No BIOS screen what so ever.
>>
>>     So the next step I guess is too get it to a shop that
>> can tell me more.
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>       
>
>   




From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 24 07:54:16 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 07:54:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <497AA2A8.6080300@sfo.com>
References: <198466.97358.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<497AA2A8.6080300@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <1232812456.6841.719.camel@jim-laptop>



   bobbie, have you tried using a meter 
to measure the output of the power supply? 



On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 21:10 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> John F. Strazzarino wrote:
> > Bobbie,
> >
> > I had the exact same issue (PS and CPU fans run, but nothing else) with a machine.  It was the power supply.  It appears that only 1 side of the power supply was working.
> >
> > John
> >   
> >
> >   
> 
>     Thanks John, for your useful response. 
>     later
>     Bobbie Sellers
> 
> > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com> wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com>
> >> Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
> >> To: taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com, "SF-LUG" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> >> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 4:47 PM
> >> So today I pulled out the graphics card and its fan
> >>     Disconnected the DVD Drive and plugged it in again
> >> and again the only thing that happend is that the PS and
> >> the CPU fans run.
> >>     No BIOS screen what so ever.
> >>
> >>     So the next step I guess is too get it to a shop that
> >> can tell me more.
> >>
> >>     
> >
> >
> >
> >       
> >
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From bliss at sfo.com  Sat Jan 24 08:53:37 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:53:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <1232812456.6841.719.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <198466.97358.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	
	<497AA2A8.6080300@sfo.com> <1232812456.6841.719.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <497B4791.50300@sfo.com>

jim wrote:
>    bobbie, have you tried using a meter 
> to measure the output of the power supply? 
>   
    No with my inexpertise i would likely short it out and blow up
something.
   
    later
    Bobbie
>
>
> On Fri, 2009-01-23 at 21:10 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>   
>> John F. Strazzarino wrote:
>>     
>>> Bobbie,
>>>
>>> I had the exact same issue (PS and CPU fans run, but nothing else) with a machine.  It was the power supply.  It appears that only 1 side of the power supply was working.
>>>
>>> John
>>>   
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>     Thanks John, for your useful response. 
>>     later
>>     Bobbie Sellers
>>
>>     
>>> --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com>
>>>> Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
>>>> To: taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com, "SF-LUG" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>>>> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 4:47 PM
>>>> So today I pulled out the graphics card and its fan
>>>>     Disconnected the DVD Drive and plugged it in again
>>>> and again the only thing that happend is that the PS and
>>>> the CPU fans run.
>>>>     No BIOS screen what so ever.
>>>>
>>>>     So the next step I guess is too get it to a shop that
>>>> can tell me more.
>>>>
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>>
>>>       
>>>
>>>   
>>>       




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Jan 24 09:15:55 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 12:15:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] That Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <497B4791.50300@sfo.com>
References: <198466.97358.qm@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<497AA2A8.6080300@sfo.com>
	<1232812456.6841.719.camel@jim-laptop> <497B4791.50300@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901241215020.23158@vellum.laroia.net>

On Sat, 24 Jan 2009, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> jim wrote:
>>    bobbie, have you tried using a meter
>> to measure the output of the power supply?
>>
>    No with my inexpertise i would likely short it out and blow up
> something.

I have a spare ATX power supply you can test with, if that helps. I could 
easily leave it for you at Noisebridge.

Let's chat off-list if you want to borrow it!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Artistic ventures highlighted.  Rob a museum.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Jan 25 16:24:23 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:24:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] the in keyword
In-Reply-To: <1231803644.6449.79.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1231803644.6449.79.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901251923430.22834@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

>   let's reserve a little time to discuss the in
> keyword (not an operator, as the text says, but
> that's not important):

I only just noticed this email!

>   the in keyword uses some feature of dictionaries
> to return values quickly; i'm guessing the feature
> is that of a hash table. recall our discussion last
> time was that the in keyword also uses features of
> lists and strings (sequences) and for all i recall
> (nothing further), the in keyword uses other
> features in other contexts. all in all seems helpful
> to review.

All in all indeed. Let's do it Monday.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Your fly might be open (but don't check it just now).



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Jan 25 16:25:17 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:25:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [sf-lug]  [PYCLASS] Jan 26 6:30 PM: Chapter 11 (repeat)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901251924300.22834@vellum.laroia.net>

Um, last week I accidentally slept through class. Let's do it for real 
this time.

Newbies still welcome!

-- Asheesh.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:32:04
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Jan 12 6:30 PM: Chapter 11

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Jan 12 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 11

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book012.html

This week, we look dictionaries, a really interesting data type. This is
the first long chapter on a data type, so pay attention. They're quite fun
and powerful!

IF YOU ARE NEW

If you are new, *read Chapter 11* and work forward in the text, starting
with chapter 1. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 11 so that we can have
a coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about
earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on
the sf-lug list.

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Your depth of comprehension may tend to make you lax in worldly ways.

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From john_re at fastmail.us  Mon Jan 26 00:10:16 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 00:10:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Phenom II Mobo Store Trek Jan 31 Sat 11A-3P ?  -jor
Message-ID: <1232957416.25149.1296726859@webmail.messagingengine.com>

AMD's Phenom II seems to be the value price leading current generation
processor.  Much better value system than Intel's cur gen proc I7: Very
significantly lower priced comparable mobos, & uses better value DDR2,
not DDR3.

Anyone here have a Phenom II yet?  What mobo do you recommend for a good
value system?

I'm considering going on a short 3 store motherboard investigation on
Jan 31:
11A-   12N    Frys - Fremont,
12:30P-1:30P  MicroCenter - SantaClara,
2P-    3P     CentralComputer - SanJose

Then maybe back to the store with the best values.  I'm thinking I'll
see what recommendations, & the best value offerings, the stores make. 
Which stores will price match the best online values?

Anyone care to come along?  We'll discuss, compare & contrast.


==  PHENOM II -  SYSTEM, RECOMMENDATIONS?
Looking for the best mobo for 64bit desktop GNU(Linux)/BSD use.

I'm thinking something with 8-16GB RAM (800MHz? 1000?), and can handle a
4870x2.  Maybe Crossfire capable.  Onboard video, preferable ATI?  What
power supply?


==  BEST VALUE, PRICES
$180 AMD Phenom II X4 2.8GHz Quad-Core Socket AM2+ CPU
http://dealnews.com/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-2-8-GHz-Quad-Core-Socket-AM2-CPU-for-180-free-shipping-more/274840.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=903114-2-0-ARTICLE-0&Item=N82E16819103472&nm_mc=AFC-DealNews&cm_mmc=AFC-DealNews-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA

($245 after rebate) $255 AMD Phenom II X4 2.8GHz Quad-Core CPU, mobo
(Biostar TForce AMD 790GX) + free shipping
http://dealnews.com/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-2-8-GHz-Quad-Core-CPU-mobo-for-245-after-rebate-free-shipping/275624.html
Biostar TForce AMD 790GX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138128


==  REVIEWS & COMPARISONS & RECOMMENDATIONS
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Processor - Performance tests and comparison with
rivals.
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/amd-phenom-2-x4-940-p1.html

DDR2-800 vs. DDR3-1333.- Does DDR3-1333 Make Sense?
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333.html

TA790GX XE 5.x
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/memory_report.php?S_ID=375



From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Mon Jan 26 08:44:07 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 26 Jan 2009 11:44:07 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....
Message-ID: <2519481.1232988250726.JavaMail.cfservice@webservera1>


I searched for a overscan setting in the Nvidia Driver Settings and there isn't one... I looked around online And it seems allot of people are complaining about this. I did read some stuff about using Xvidtune and adding modelines. I guess thats an option, just not something that I really wanted to have to do. :\


Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From:Asheesh Laroia asheesh at asheesh.org 
To: "Blake Haggerty" ;
Cc: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
Sent: Jan 23, 2009 02:08:11 PM
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Intrepid desktop not fitting on screen....

On Fri, 23 Jan 2009, Blake Haggerty wrote: 

> Friend of mine saw my Ubuntu setup and wanted to try it himself. I went 
> over to his house last night and setup a dual boot on his machine. His 
> computer is connected to a Mitsubishi LCD 46" television. Via DVI 2 HDMI 
> I was able to get all the Nvidia drivers installed on it running in what 
> should be the correct resolution 1920x1080, But the desktop does not fit 
> on the screen. (Cant see the toolbar, Applications, System, 
> Places...etc) 
> 
> Everything I have googled just talks about resolution and how to change 
> that. I can change the resolution but it doesn't really help (makes 
> everything really ugly and still doesn't completely fit on screen) 

On a TV? Sounds to me like overscan. 

> I have this working on my home computer but I cant remember for the life 
> of me how I did it, (I do remember it took some fiddling) I tried using 
> my xorg.conf which did not work. 

I haven't dealt with overscan since I ran Linux on an Xbox. I don't know 
if current digital TVs do that. (And I would guess not!) 

There used to be a GUI TV tuner configuration tool I used when I used TV 
out. On the Xbox there was some obscure CLI tool that worked against the 
onboard NVidia chip it had. 

-- Asheesh. 

-- 
Afternoon very favorable for romance. Try a single person for a change. 


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From jason at jcorcoran.net  Mon Jan 26 17:39:00 2009
From: jason at jcorcoran.net (Jason Corcoran)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:39:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] iptables.
Message-ID: <200901261739.00476.jason@jcorcoran.net>

I have a Ubuntu hardy installation. Most things are up to date on the machine.

I was wondering about iptables. I have allowed access into the box for all the 
services I am interested in (ssh, imaps, www, smtp and DNS). I was wondering 
what rule will allow all connections from the box to the outside. 

When I try the iptables-restore with the information below, I can not ping off 
the box. I thought by default that it was only incoming connections that are 
restricted and I should be able to ping etc.. off the box. I have googled and 
I am not seeing the solution. Any pointers would be gratefully received.

Thanks,
Jason.

Script that is passed to iptables-restore ->

# Generated by iptables-save v1.3.8 on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
*raw
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [2024:583729]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [1782:128780]
COMMIT
# Completed on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
# Generated by iptables-save v1.3.8 on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
*nat
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [244:71022]
:POSTROUTING ACCEPT [716:42490]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [716:42490]
COMMIT
# Completed on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
# Generated by iptables-save v1.3.8 on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
*mangle
:PREROUTING ACCEPT [2024:583729]
:INPUT ACCEPT [1866:529061]
:FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [1782:128780]
:POSTROUTING ACCEPT [1782:128780]
COMMIT
# Completed on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
# Generated by iptables-save v1.3.8 on Fri Jan 23 16:08:03 2009
*filter
:INPUT ACCEPT [0:0]
:FORWARD ACCEPT [0:0]
:OUTPUT ACCEPT [1782:128780]
-A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport ssh -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport ssh -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport www -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport www -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport smtp -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport imap -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport imap -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport imaps -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport imaps -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport webmin -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport webmin -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport mysql -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport mysql -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m udp -p udp --dport 53 -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m udp -p udp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp --dport 53 -j 
ACCEPT
-A INPUT -m state --state NEW -m tcp -p tcp --dport 53 -j ACCEPT
-A INPUT -j DROP
-A OUTPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -m tcp -p tcp -j ACCEPT
COMMIT

-- 
Jason.
E: jason at jcorcoran.net

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 21:01:45 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
Message-ID: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>

Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?  I am
helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively simple end user.

Thanks in advance.
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 27 21:12:13 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:12:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <306301.90536.qm@web111008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I don't think there's much reason to pick one ISP over another based on what OS one is using
...but
sonic.net is a company that I've found pleasant to deal with, and if you are a customer of theirs, they'll let you log onto a bash shell on their computer. Sort of fun to try out although after the first time the thrill wears off..


a_kleider at yahoo.com


--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 9:01 PM
> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in
> Berkeley?  I am
> helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively
> simple end user.
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Tue Jan 27 21:18:30 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:18:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901272117540.20820@vellum.laroia.net>

On Tue, 27 Jan 2009, Christian Einfeldt wrote:

> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?  I am
> helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively simple end user.

Cable modems and dial-up ISPs are easier to configure than the PPPoE that 
DSL uses, but it's all pretty easy if you use a router box between you and 
the Internet.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You will be the last person to buy a Chrysler.



From kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 21:24:02 2009
From: kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com (Kevin J. Smith)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:24:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <306301.90536.qm@web111008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<306301.90536.qm@web111008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <cd35dd0a0901272124n1e8405bbk2e438fdae25fbd7d@mail.gmail.com>

I think Christian was asking due to the often Windows-only software that
some ISPs demand you to install in order to support you. I don't really have
any suggestions - maybe check with UC Berkeley to see if they offer low-cost
dialup - I know my alma mater (Michigan State) used to provide that for
local residents.

-KJS

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't think there's much reason to pick one ISP over another based on
> what OS one is using
> ...but
> sonic.net is a company that I've found pleasant to deal with, and if you
> are a customer of theirs, they'll let you log onto a bash shell on their
> computer. Sort of fun to try out although after the first time the thrill
> wears off..
>
>
> a_kleider at yahoo.com
>
>
> --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> > To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 9:01 PM
> > Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in
> > Berkeley?  I am
> > helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively
> > simple end user.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From jasonstone at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 21:30:57 2009
From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:30:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901272117540.20820@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0901272117540.20820@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <f11525bb0901272130l5d2a903ev262420925497f04e@mail.gmail.com>

I second sonic.net.  Their support is professional and local.  I have
had no problems with their service.

If you decide upon DSL, I would recommend finding out how far your
home is from the CO.  The highest possible speed drops as the distance
from the CO increases.  You can get such a report from dslreports.com



On 1/27/09, Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jan 2009, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
>
>  > Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?  I am
>  > helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively simple end user.
>
>
> Cable modems and dial-up ISPs are easier to configure than the PPPoE that
>  DSL uses, but it's all pretty easy if you use a router box between you and
>  the Internet.
>
>  -- Asheesh.
>
>
>  --
>  You will be the last person to buy a Chrysler.
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  sf-lug mailing list
>  sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>  http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



From david at sterryit.com  Tue Jan 27 21:31:27 2009
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:31:27 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <cd35dd0a0901272124n1e8405bbk2e438fdae25fbd7d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>	<306301.90536.qm@web111008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<cd35dd0a0901272124n1e8405bbk2e438fdae25fbd7d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <497FEDAF.9010001@sterryit.com>

I've only ever had problems with Comcast on a GNU/Linux box since they 
have a Windows-only tool that registers the cable modem. AT&T does 
everything through a web browser and is agnostic about OS as far as I 
can tell. Most of AT&T's more recent modems save the username and 
password for PPPoE so your os doesn't have to worry about that.

Kevin J. Smith wrote:
> I think Christian was asking due to the often Windows-only software 
> that some ISPs demand you to install in order to support you. I don't 
> really have any suggestions - maybe check with UC Berkeley to see if 
> they offer low-cost dialup - I know my alma mater (Michigan State) 
> used to provide that for local residents.
>
> -KJS
>
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:a_kleider at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>     I don't think there's much reason to pick one ISP over another
>     based on what OS one is using
>     ...but
>     sonic.net <http://sonic.net> is a company that I've found pleasant
>     to deal with, and if you are a customer of theirs, they'll let you
>     log onto a bash shell on their computer. Sort of fun to try out
>     although after the first time the thrill wears off..
>
>
>     a_kleider at yahoo.com <mailto:a_kleider at yahoo.com>
>
>
>     --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com
>     <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     > From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com
>     <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>>
>     > Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
>     > To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>>
>     > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 9:01 PM
>     > Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in
>     > Berkeley?  I am
>     > helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively
>     > simple end user.
>     >
>     > Thanks in advance.
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > sf-lug mailing list
>     > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>     > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     sf-lug mailing list
>     sf-lug at linuxmafia.com <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>     http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>   




From david at sterryit.com  Tue Jan 27 21:43:09 2009
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:43:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] TryGNULinux.com Free Software Podcast
Message-ID: <497FF06D.2010100@sterryit.com>

Hello all,

I've been writing a newsletter for two months and now have it together 
to do an audio version. You can subscribe to it at 
http://trygnulinux.com/ogg.rss or http://trygnulinux.com/mp3.rss 
depending on your audio file format of choice.

Popular GNU/Linux podcast clients are bashpodder, icepodder(my 
favorite), and gpodder in case you haven't caught the podcast bug yet.

Thanks,

David Sterry
http://trygnulinux.com



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 27 21:47:26 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:47:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <497FEDAF.9010001@sterryit.com>
Message-ID: <957068.19771.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I use speakeasy.net for my ubuntu server box and macosx laptop. They work fine. Got 2 static IPs for ubuntu server and main wireless router.
-------------------
t0md


--- On Tue, 1/27/09, David Sterry <david at sterryit.com> wrote:

> From: David Sterry <david at sterryit.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> To: "Linux userGroup" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 9:31 PM
> I've only ever had problems with Comcast on a GNU/Linux
> box since they 
> have a Windows-only tool that registers the cable modem.
> AT&T does 
> everything through a web browser and is agnostic about OS
> as far as I 
> can tell. Most of AT&T's more recent modems save
> the username and 
> password for PPPoE so your os doesn't have to worry
> about that.
> 
> Kevin J. Smith wrote:
> > I think Christian was asking due to the often
> Windows-only software 
> > that some ISPs demand you to install in order to
> support you. I don't 
> > really have any suggestions - maybe check with UC
> Berkeley to see if 
> > they offer low-cost dialup - I know my alma mater
> (Michigan State) 
> > used to provide that for local residents.
> >
> > -KJS
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Alex Kleider
> <a_kleider at yahoo.com 
> > <mailto:a_kleider at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     I don't think there's much reason to pick
> one ISP over another
> >     based on what OS one is using
> >     ...but
> >     sonic.net <http://sonic.net> is a company
> that I've found pleasant
> >     to deal with, and if you are a customer of theirs,
> they'll let you
> >     log onto a bash shell on their computer. Sort of
> fun to try out
> >     although after the first time the thrill wears
> off..
> >
> >
> >     a_kleider at yahoo.com
> <mailto:a_kleider at yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >     --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Christian Einfeldt
> <einfeldt at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     > From: Christian Einfeldt
> <einfeldt at gmail.com
> >     <mailto:einfeldt at gmail.com>>
> >     > Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for
> Linux
> >     > To: "sf-lug"
> <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>>
> >     > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 9:01 PM
> >     > Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good
> for Linux in
> >     > Berkeley?  I am
> >     > helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a
> relatively
> >     > simple end user.
> >     >
> >     > Thanks in advance.
> >     >
> _______________________________________________
> >     > sf-lug mailing list
> >     > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> >     > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     sf-lug mailing list
> >     sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> >     http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >   
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From ewalstad at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 22:22:32 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:22:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <957068.19771.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <497FEDAF.9010001@sterryit.com>
	<957068.19771.qm@web53505.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20901272222i17a2b2e6u120850d4c313e5b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I use speakeasy.net for my ubuntu server box and macosx laptop. They work fine. Got 2 static IPs for ubuntu server and main wireless router.


I used to be a satisfied speakeasy customer for a few years.  They
were recently bought out by Best Buy after which the quality of my DSL
and VoIP service got pretty bad, unusable at times.  I don't know if
the buyout had anything to do with the degradation of service.  When I
left Speakeasy I signed on with Comcast cable which has a good price
for a business class cable connection.  Like Asheesh mentioned, my
network is behind a router that is behind the Comcast modem so I have
no trouble with my linux boxes.  Interesting to note that when Comcast
installed their hardware they had me test the bandwidth using a
Speakeasy tool[1].  The day they installed it, Comcast's inbound speed
was 20x faster than Speakeasy's and the outbound was 7.5x faster[2].
Shortly after, though, Comcast seems to have throttled back my inbound
speed but it's still quite a bit faster than Speakeasy and for less
money.  I don't have much experience with Comcast's tech support yet.
That *was* what I really liked about speakeasy: I would get a clueful
human on the phone when I called.  That seems to have changed.  While
debugging my crappy DSL/VoIP service, the Speakeasy tech was stumped
and at one point theorized that the problem was caused by the cash
register in a nearby coffee shop.

Eric.
[1] http://speakeasy.net/speedtest/
[2] values in kilobit/s
speakeasy:
874 inbound  311 outbound
comcast:
17,852 inbound  2321 outbound
[3] date	inbound	outbound	days	% change
01/06/09	17852	2321			
01/13/09	6539	2282	7	-63.37%	-1.68%
01/14/09	6269	1845	1	-4.13%	-19.15%
01/16/09	6550	2338	2	4.48%	26.72%
01/22/09	5843	2193	6	-10.79%	-6.20%



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Jan 27 22:57:46 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:57:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040901272257w671b31f8k3e1758b0eff5d166@mail.gmail.com>

Thx to all who replied!  This is info is for a 60 yr old guy to whom I just
gave a Xubuntu box.  He is on a low fixed income.  I hope it works out for
him.
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From penguin at techbandit.com  Tue Jan 27 23:33:12 2009
From: penguin at techbandit.com (Romel Jacinto)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 23:33:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040901272257w671b31f8k3e1758b0eff5d166@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901272257w671b31f8k3e1758b0eff5d166@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49800A38.5070900@techbandit.com>

On 01/27/2009 10:57 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> This is info is for a 60 yr old guy to whom I 
> just gave a Xubuntu box.  He is on a low fixed income.

Someone on a low fixed income might have a difficult time incurring an 
additional monthly expense.

Rather than a dedicated DSL line, have you considered suggesting wifi?

Legalities and security aside, there are numerous open wireless access 
points setup by individuals, but there's also Meraki, who is attempting 
to bring free wifi to all of San Francisco. Meraki states that they are 
OS agnostic.

I have no direct experience with Meraki, but it might be no-price option 
for your new Xubuntu user.

More info:
http://sf.meraki.com/faq

--
Romel



From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Jan 28 00:49:02 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:49:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] And some San Francisco on Friday Fwd: [nylug-talk] KDE 4.2
 NYC Release Event
Message-ID: <1233132542.12667.1297155381@webmail.messagingengine.com>

So, I just saw this link on the NYLUG mailing list.  I don't know if I
know Spehr.  http://planetkde.org/   I'm looking at "08:15, Wednesday,
28 January UTC" at 12:15AM jan 28, makes me guess it's a European
website.  I don't see it in my SFLUG nor BALUG inbox.  Maybe there's
another San Francisco?  I figure I better tell the local Saint
Francisians.  ;)

http://planetkde.org/
A. L. Spehr (blauzahl)   San Francisco Release Party!

Votes are in: We'll have a San Francisco release party on Friday, at
7pm, meeting in Sparky's. (on Church St., just south of Market;
reachable by Muni, or walk-to-able from BART) It's a diner, so all ages.
We can always go elsewhere if teeming masses show up, or maybe we'll
want to hit a bar later on. You can follow me on twitter @blauzahl and
find out.

So... Tell your friends!

I'll be wearing a blue KDE shirt with the white edging. First person to
show up that I don't know gets a blue KDE baseball hat. Woot! 

=======================
Dear LUG,

I thought I should tell you that there's a KDE 4.2 release event on
Wednesday.

Web announcement: http://planetkde.org/ or
http://blog.jasondonenfeld.com/89
Wiki announcement:
http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+4.2+Release+Party#_United_States_New_York_NY

It will be at 8pm on the 28th at the Hungarian Pastry Shop on Amsterdam
between 110th and 111th.

Thanks,
Jason Donenfeld
_____________________________________________________________________________
Hire expert Linux talent by posting jobs here :: http://jobs.nylug.org
The nylug-talk mailing list is at nylug-talk at nylug.org
The list archive is at http://nylug.org/pipermail/nylug-talk
To subscribe or unsubscribe:
http://nylug.org/mailman/listinfo/nylug-talk



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 07:52:37 2009
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 07:52:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <49800A38.5070900@techbandit.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901272257w671b31f8k3e1758b0eff5d166@mail.gmail.com>
	<49800A38.5070900@techbandit.com>
Message-ID: <7a0d56080901280752w61c4545fn85ce5881953511c0@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I'm reading more into this than I should -- it wouldn't be the first
time -- but I think one of the undercurrents of this discussion should be
supporting ISPs which are Linux-based, or at least Linux-friendly.
Case in point -- a tale of two Santa Cruz ISPs: Cruzio, the larger "local"
ISP which touts its local friendliness but is absolutely clueless when it
comes to Linux; further they do not even want to deal with Linux at all --
you use it at your own risk (a direct quote, to which I responded, "I'll
chance it."). Got.net, on the other hand, is a Debian-based ISP which
provides support for Linux users (as well as users of other OSes).

Truth in advertising: I am regretfully a Cruzio subscriber at the moment
switching over to Got.net for reasons mentioned above.

Larry Cafiero
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From ewalstad at gmail.com  Wed Jan 28 08:55:12 2009
From: ewalstad at gmail.com (Eric Walstad)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 08:55:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <49800A38.5070900@techbandit.com>
References: <4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040901272257w671b31f8k3e1758b0eff5d166@mail.gmail.com>
	<49800A38.5070900@techbandit.com>
Message-ID: <c436fcd20901280855odc3111axb231102d1b26a2d0@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Romel Jacinto <penguin at techbandit.com> wrote:
> Rather than a dedicated DSL line, have you considered suggesting wifi?
...
> there's also Meraki, who is attempting
> to bring free wifi to all of San Francisco.

A few years back I was running an external wifi beam antenna to
connect to a local SFLan[1] node.  I don't use it much any more
because my wife started calling me at the office for tech support when
the conditions were such that we weren't able to get to the node.
However, if the OP's friend is close to an SFLan node that might be
another viable option.

Eric
[1] http://www.archive.org/web/sflan.php



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 28 11:05:47 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:05:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <c436fcd20901272222i17a2b2e6u120850d4c313e5b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <386431.33149.qm@web53503.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

You should also mention that comcast will put baudwidth limiters on bittorrent connections and kill large downloads (i.e. > 1GB may die in middle of download). also, mention that you do not have a single line connection like DSL gives you. You share what is basically a LAN between you and the people in your neighborhood. So if you run a tcpdump you can see your neighbors data. This is also something to take into account. If someone in your neighborhood is taking a lot of bandwidth it effects your bandwidth and this isn't the same for a DSL connection. Basic DSL is 1MBit for $25 a month. You can get 6Mbit for $60 a month and $15Mbit for $100 and it is your own connection. No sharing with your neighbors. I think you should mention this. Cable is a lot easier to hack than a DSL connection if our neighbors want too. 

Essentially, it all depends on your usage and what you are willing to pay for. Cable works for a lot of people. Think about what your needs are then create a list of them and ask people based on your needs and cares.
----------------------
t0md

--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Eric Walstad <ewalstad at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:22 PM
> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Thomas DiZoglio
> <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I use speakeasy.net for my ubuntu server box and
> macosx laptop. They work fine. Got 2 static IPs for ubuntu
> server and main wireless router.
> 
> 
> I used to be a satisfied speakeasy customer for a few
> years.  They
> were recently bought out by Best Buy after which the
> quality of my DSL
> and VoIP service got pretty bad, unusable at times.  I
> don't know if
> the buyout had anything to do with the degradation of
> service.  When I
> left Speakeasy I signed on with Comcast cable which has a
> good price
> for a business class cable connection.  Like Asheesh
> mentioned, my
> network is behind a router that is behind the Comcast modem
> so I have
> no trouble with my linux boxes.  Interesting to note that
> when Comcast
> installed their hardware they had me test the bandwidth
> using a
> Speakeasy tool[1].  The day they installed it,
> Comcast's inbound speed
> was 20x faster than Speakeasy's and the outbound was
> 7.5x faster[2].
> Shortly after, though, Comcast seems to have throttled back
> my inbound
> speed but it's still quite a bit faster than Speakeasy
> and for less
> money.  I don't have much experience with Comcast's
> tech support yet.
> That *was* what I really liked about speakeasy: I would get
> a clueful
> human on the phone when I called.  That seems to have
> changed.  While
> debugging my crappy DSL/VoIP service, the Speakeasy tech
> was stumped
> and at one point theorized that the problem was caused by
> the cash
> register in a nearby coffee shop.
> 
> Eric.
> [1] http://speakeasy.net/speedtest/
> [2] values in kilobit/s
> speakeasy:
> 874 inbound  311 outbound
> comcast:
> 17,852 inbound  2321 outbound
> [3] date	inbound	outbound	days	% change
> 01/06/09	17852	2321			
> 01/13/09	6539	2282	7	-63.37%	-1.68%
> 01/14/09	6269	1845	1	-4.13%	-19.15%
> 01/16/09	6550	2338	2	4.48%	26.72%
> 01/22/09	5843	2193	6	-10.79%	-6.20%
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


      



From sarah at cloudmade.com  Wed Jan 28 14:39:37 2009
From: sarah at cloudmade.com (Sarah Manley)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 14:39:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upcoming OpenStreetMap and Cloudmade events
Message-ID: <AA5D6E13-6241-4BDC-A8E9-72FF91AF755E@cloudmade.com>

Dear All,

I just wanted to send a quick notice about upcoming OpenStreetMap and  
Cloudmade events. The details can be found below. Please do not  
hesitate to contact me with questions.

OSM: Mountain View Mapping Party
Saturday Feb 7 and Sunday Feb 8, 11am - 4pm
Red Rock Coffee, 201 Castro Street, Mountain View, CA 94041  http://www.redrockcoffee.org 
  (650) 967-4473
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mountain_View_Mapping_Party_-_February_2009

CloudMade's Developer Program Launch Preview
Thursday February 5th, 6:00pm
San Francisco Airport Marriott Hotel, 1800 Old Bayshore Highway,  
Burlingame, California, 94010
RSVP: http://developer.cloudmade.com/event/launch?source=sm_dm_sf&new=true


Best,
Sarah

Sarah Manley
Sarah at cloudmade.com
Cell: 631-338-3815
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley




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From jim at well.com  Thu Jan 29 13:26:35 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 13:26:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Linux Administrator in Modesto,
	CA at $40-45/hr
Message-ID: <1233264395.6752.154.camel@jim-laptop>


Linux Administrator in Modesto, CA at $40-45/hr

We are seeking a Linux Administrator for a client of ours located in
Modesto, CA for $40-45hr. They are seeking someone who has strong Linux
administration experience in large enterprise environment (including
writing and installing kernel scripts). This person should also have
some web administration experience to include web servers, PHP, HTML,
MySql, Python, Perl, C, C++, etc.

Additionally, this person ideally should have ?some? Ingres experience
as they most likely be the person who interfaces with Ingres over the
next year. They will be the person on site at our client that will
correspond with Ingres and implement patches, and updates as Ingres
provides them.

This position would be a contract to hire opportunity. Bayside Solutions
is one of the SF Bay Area's top relationship based recruiting firms.
More information on Bayside Solutions can be found at
www.baysidesolutions.com
This position is a contract to hire opportunity. Bayside Solutions is
one of the SF Bay Area's top relationship based recruiting firms. More
information on Bayside Solutions can be found at
www.baysidesolutions.com

For more information about this Linux Administrator position in Modesto,
please contact Brian Azevedo at bazevedo at baysidesolutions.com or
925-460-8270 ex 239.

Brian Azevedo
Senior Technical Recruiter
Bayside Solutions
6160 Stoneridge Mall Rd. #320
Pleasanton, CA 94588
925-460-8270 x239
800-220-0074 x239
www.baysidesolutions.com
bazevedo at baysidesolutions.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/brianazevedo






From jim at well.com  Fri Jan 30 18:02:01 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:02:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets this sunday, february 1, at cafe euro,
	geary at 26
Message-ID: <1233367321.23404.54.camel@jim-laptop>


SF-LUG meets this sunday, february 1, from 
11 AM to 1 PM or so at cafe euro, on geary 
blvd at 26th, in san francisco. 

there's a free t-shirt (XL) from the linux 
foundation along with a free book from 
prentice-hall. 






From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 31 08:32:00 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 08:32:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG sunday meeting 11 AM : two books and a T-shirt
Message-ID: <1233419520.23404.114.camel@jim-laptop>


this sunday, an XL t-shirt and two books: 

* "Assemble the Social Web with Zembly" 
by gail anderson, et als. 

* "A Practical Guide to Ubuntu Linux" second edition 
by mark sobell (for 8.04 and 8.10). 






From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Jan 31 01:24:14 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 01:24:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meets this sunday, february 1, at cafe euro,
 geary at 26
In-Reply-To: <1233367321.23404.54.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1233367321.23404.54.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901310123210.18000@vellum.laroia.net>

On Fri, 30 Jan 2009, jim wrote:

> SF-LUG meets this sunday, february 1, from 11 AM to 1 PM or so at cafe 
> euro, on geary blvd at 26th, in san francisco.

Fun times! See you all there.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
She is not refined.  She is not unrefined.  She keeps a parrot.
 		-- Mark Twain



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Jan 31 01:48:16 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 01:48:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Feb 2 6:30 PM: Chapter 12
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0901310143170.18000@vellum.laroia.net>

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Feb 2 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 12

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book013.html

This week, we look at tuples. We also learn about a classic 
Python idiom, Decorate-Sort-Undecorate (and in class I will 
show you the super-new way to write that even faster).

IF YOU ARE NEW

Remember that the point of the class is to help you answer questions you 
have. To that end, *read Chapter 12* so that you can make sense of the 
general class discussion.

In addition, work forward in the text starting with chapter 1. I *urge* 
you to send me your exercises for any chapters; I can provide good 
feedback. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 11 so that we can have a 
coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about 
earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on
the sf-lug list.

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.



From jim at well.com  Mon Feb  2 08:54:54 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 08:54:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] interesting artifact re system mail configuration
Message-ID: <1233593694.6982.113.camel@jim-laptop>


   i've complained and asked various smart people 
for help. one smart person, daniel mizyrycki, 
figured out the problem, 

   i'm using ubuntu server 8.10 and postfix 
(whichever release ubuntu includes) as MTA, and 
for MUA i'm using good ol' mail (not recommended 
as it doesn't allow multi-line editing: i've got 
to be sure the current line is right before i 
hit the Enter key). 
   the problem was that outbound mail had in the 
From: field not only user at domain in angle 
brackets but the hostname prepended as the 
common name: sill <jim at systemateka.com> 
   how to get rid of that "sill"? i looked 
through postfix config files and docs till i 
was blind. i looked through mail config and 
doc files similarly. i discovered that there's 
such a thing as an MSA (mail sumission agent, 
an interesting possibility in itself), and i 
discovered that it's difficult to find docs 
that describe the overall architecture of the 
system with respect to mail--what are the MUA, 
MSA, MTA relationships in the shipping release? 

   the mail client picked up the hostname from 
the comment field in /etc/passwd for the 
current user. why i'd put the hostname (sill) 
there escapes me, but i did. 
   the exact contents of the comment field were 
:sill,,,: 
so i changed them to 
:james stockford,,,: 
and what do you know, sending mail now 
populated the common name with james stockford. 
   i then put a comma character as the first 
character in the comment field 
:,james stockford,,,: 
and sending mail populated the From: field with 
nothing, and jim at systemateka.com was no longer 
in angle brackets. 

   i know this is pretty arcane, but it may be 
useful for those setting up systems to know 
that at least the mail client references the 
comment field in /etc/passwd and it strikes 
me as interesting that daniel would have 
figured it out. 






From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Feb  2 09:35:59 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:35:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] interesting artifact re system mail configuration
In-Reply-To: <1233593694.6982.113.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1233593694.6982.113.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902020934380.7868@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, jim wrote:

>   i've complained and asked various smart people
> for help. one smart person, daniel mizyrycki,
> figured out the problem,

Yay! Just one note:

>   how to get rid of that "sill"? i looked
> through postfix config files and docs till i
> was blind. i looked through mail config and
> doc files similarly. i discovered that there's
> such a thing as an MSA (mail sumission agent,
> an interesting possibility in itself), and i
> discovered that it's difficult to find docs
> that describe the overall architecture of the
> system with respect to mail--what are the MUA,
> MSA, MTA relationships in the shipping release?

I think that our friend Rick has a page about this somewhere. (-:
>   the mail client picked up the hostname from
> the comment field in /etc/passwd for the
> current user. why i'd put the hostname (sill)
> there escapes me, but i did.

That's pretty weird of you! (-;

Anyway, "chfn" is the tool to avoid hacking /etc/passwd by hand.

-- Asheesh.

P.S. Sorry I missed you all on Sunday. )-:

-- 
Domestic happiness and faithful friends.



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Feb  2 13:39:16 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 13:39:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Whitfield Diffie to speak at SF State...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902021339s502abc28h566ce8ff04e50669@mail.gmail.com>

FYI: From the SFSU Computer Science Graduate Seminar series. This is
open to non-SFSU folks as well.

Sameer


We are proud to announce a distinguished speaker for the CS Graduate
Seminar: Whitfield Diffie, one of the inventors of public key
cryptography. Please note that this talk will not be given at the
usual location but in the Towers Conference Center (across the parking
lot).

Name    : Dr. Whitfield Diffie
Title   : The Past and Future of Information Security
Date    : February 18th, 2009
Time    : 5:30 p.m.
Location: Towers Conference Center
         800 Front Blvd (entrance on State Drive)

Abstract:
Information security as we know it today arises out of the growth of
radio in the early 20th century and that of computers in mid-century.
Each represented a challenge to known techniques for controling
information.  We will explore the history of these developments and
explore the challenge posed by web services and cloud computing today.

Bio:
Dr. Whitfield Diffie, Chief Security Officer of Sun Microsystems, is
Vice President and Sun Fellow and has been at Sun since 1991. As Chief
Security Officer, Diffie is the chief exponent of Sun's security
vision and responsible for developing Sun's strategy to achieve that
vision. Best known for his 1975 discovery of the concept of public key
cryptography, Diffie spent the 1990s working primarily on the public
policy aspects of cryptography and has testified several times in the
Senate and House of Representatives. Diffie is a fellow of the Marconi
Foundation and is the recipient of awards from a number of
organizations, including IEEE, The Electronic Frontiers Foundation,
NIST, NSA, the Franklin Institute and ACM.



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Feb  2 14:09:31 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 14:09:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] interesting artifact re system mail configuration
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902020934380.7868@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <1233593694.6982.113.camel@jim-laptop>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0902020934380.7868@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <20090202220931.GG16400@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):

> I think that our friend Rick has a page about this somewhere. (-:

Actually, I'd not hear the term "Mail Submission Agent" before -- but
apparently the term's used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_submission_agent

Looks like it's a sort of front-end daemon that receives outgoing mail
and authenticates the user to be authorised to originate such mail
(e.g., using one of the variants of SMTP AUTH, accepting outbound mail
on port 587/tcp).  Plus, apparently sometimes it rewrites the outgoing
mail's headers to clean them up, quality-checks the mail to try to make
sure the originating machine's not a zombified Windows box cranking out
spam or malware, and otherwise checks it out and tidies it.

So, no, I don't have any pages detailing that, but it sounds like a
reasonable invention.

The super-traditional, very old-school model for mail flow is as
follows:  Mail arrives at a receiving MTA (examples:  sendmail, exim,
Postfix, QMail, Courier-MTA), which then hands it off to a local
delivery agent (LDA; example: procmail) that deposits it in the desired
format somewhere on the MTA box's local filesystem (a spool).  At a
later time, a user telnets/SSHes in and runs a console-type client mail
program (a mail user agent = MUA), which reads the spool and permits the
addressed user to compose replies and new mails.  Those outbound mails
are then handed off to the MTA for outbound processing.

A slightly less ancient elaboration on that model introduced Mail
Delivery Agents (MDAs), daemons that offer POP3 (Post Office Protocol v.
3) or IMAP4 (Internet Message Access Protocol) remote retrieval of
messages from the local MTA spool, for the benefit of MUAs running on
users' client machines.  In those cases, the MUA either has to hand off
outbound mail to MTA running on that user machine, or has to have a
small amount of SMTP code built in, sufficient to relay it outbound to
a real MTA willing to deliver the MUA's outbound mail.





From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Feb  2 15:52:39 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:52:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Whitfield Diffie to speak at SF State...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902021339s502abc28h566ce8ff04e50669@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902021339s502abc28h566ce8ff04e50669@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090202235239.GD9049@sonic.net>

On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 01:39:16PM -0800, Sameer Verma wrote:
> FYI: From the SFSU Computer Science Graduate Seminar series. This is
> open to non-SFSU folks as well.

Wow.  I met Dr. Diffie for a few moments at the birthday party of
one of my professors this past weekend.

Now, this is a small world, because Diffie's name is not one I knew
off the top of my head, and suddenly I'm hearing/seeing it twice in
3 days.

Let's take this a bit further.  The birthday party of my professor
was held over in Novato at his daughter's.  Novato was my home town.
Of all the houses in Novato, this party JUST happened to be in the
house that one of my best friends from high school[*] grew up in.

15 years ago, I would not have believed you if you said
"Bill, 10 years after graduating from college, you will attend
your CS professor's birthday party in this house."

Worse yet, after returning from Novato, I swung by Burgers & Brew
in Davis to pick up a late dinner for my wife.  As I sit there
waiting for my order, one of my Davis friends walks up.
She had ALSO just returned from Davis and was ALSO picking up
an order for HER significant other.


Anyone ever see that episode of Star Trek TNG where Dr. Crusher
was stuck in a collapsing universe bubble? :)  I'm getting that
same feeling this week. ;)

-bill!
[*] Best friend, as in: She and her wife performed
    my wedding ceremony :)



From jim at well.com  Mon Feb  2 16:54:23 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:54:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] python class tonight at 6:30 at 83C wiese
Message-ID: <1233622463.6982.254.camel@jim-laptop>


6:30 PM at 83C wiese 
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=83c+wiese,
+san+francisco,
+california&sll=37.766033,-122.419517&sspn=0.00899,0.014677&ie=UTF8&ll=37.765609,-122.420483&spn=0.00899,0.014677&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr 

very near 16th and mission street, a little 
alley that runs parallel to mission and is 
about 100 feet west of mission. 

knock on the door and tell 'em joe sent you. 





From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Feb  2 22:58:44 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 22:58:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Whitfield Diffie to speak at SF State...
In-Reply-To: <20090202235239.GD9049@sonic.net>
References: <5fb387c70902021339s502abc28h566ce8ff04e50669@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090202235239.GD9049@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902022258j77925336s685d6f32316a85e0@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:52 PM, Bill Kendrick <nbs at sonic.net> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 01:39:16PM -0800, Sameer Verma wrote:
>> FYI: From the SFSU Computer Science Graduate Seminar series. This is
>> open to non-SFSU folks as well.
>
> Wow.  I met Dr. Diffie for a few moments at the birthday party of
> one of my professors this past weekend.
>
> Now, this is a small world, because Diffie's name is not one I knew
> off the top of my head, and suddenly I'm hearing/seeing it twice in
> 3 days.
>
> Let's take this a bit further.  The birthday party of my professor
> was held over in Novato at his daughter's.  Novato was my home town.
> Of all the houses in Novato, this party JUST happened to be in the
> house that one of my best friends from high school[*] grew up in.
>
> 15 years ago, I would not have believed you if you said
> "Bill, 10 years after graduating from college, you will attend
> your CS professor's birthday party in this house."
>
> Worse yet, after returning from Novato, I swung by Burgers & Brew
> in Davis to pick up a late dinner for my wife.  As I sit there
> waiting for my order, one of my Davis friends walks up.
> She had ALSO just returned from Davis and was ALSO picking up
> an order for HER significant other.
>
>
> Anyone ever see that episode of Star Trek TNG where Dr. Crusher
> was stuck in a collapsing universe bubble? :)  I'm getting that
> same feeling this week. ;)
>
> -bill!
> [*] Best friend, as in: She and her wife performed
>    my wedding ceremony :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

Bill,

You just know too many people :-)

By the way, I just talked about you an hour ago when I was introducing
you to my class as the maintainer of Tuxpaint, and how only in FOSS
can one say, "Hey, that guy in the credits list is a friend of mine!".

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From john_re at fastmail.us  Tue Feb  3 06:12:41 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:12:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BerkeleyTIP Feb 7 Sat Global Meeting - Ekiga3, Asterisk,
 KDE, GPGPU, Debian Edu, GStreamer
Message-ID: <1233670361.11270.1298264981@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Hey SFLUGers, Jim, & Professor Verma - 
check out the part about the University Outreach below, &
make a local meeting for SFState, USF, UCSF, or some other local college
students  :)  

I mention this specifically to you all, cause I know SFLUG has the most
active meetings group in San Francisco.

This is a great opportunity to bring some important education &
community to the students, who with some assistance could become great
FSW contributors.  :)

Please email to the BTIP
list if you decide to have a local simultaneous meeting.  Thanks  :)

=====
** Great talks this meeting: (live & on video) **
Ekiga3, Asterisk, GPGPU, GStreamer, Debian Edu,
HowTo Present KDE at meetings
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/

Join from anywhere via VOIP conference,
with the friendly, educational, productive, BerkeleyTIP people.  :)
Join the #berkeleytip freenode.net IRC channel for help getting your
VOIP working.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal/web/irc-voip

Or, come to the UC Berkeley physical meeting location.

Programming Party: Whatever you want to work on, or group VOIP
technology.


=====================================================================
*****  FEB 7 SCHEDULE  (California PacificStandardTime = -8h GMT)  *****
Time   Activity & Talks
----   -------------------------------------
10 A   Setup. Installfest begin. IRC & VOIP online
11     Ekiga 3 VOIP HowTo - Live
12 N   Asterisk Free Software Telephone System
 1 P       "
 2     GPGPU - General Purpose computing w/ Graphics Processing Units
 3         "
 4     Debian Edu - 100% in main
 5     GStreamer Multimedia Framework
 6     HowTo Rock the Show with KDE
 630   - Cleanup

[Adjust for your local time:  10AM - 6:30PM PST = 1PM - 9:30PM Eastern
= 6PM - 2:30AM GMT]

-----
Ekiga 3 VOIP HowTo Install -   1h
Live - Most distros only have version 2

The Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy - 1h23m
http://nylug.org/meetings/index.shtml?20081000 

GPGPU - General Purpose GPUs - John Stone - 1h43m
http://www.archive.org/details/clug-28-10-2008-gpu-computing

Debian Edu 100% in main - Holger Levsen - 1h
https://penta.debconf.org/dc8_schedule/events/286.en.html

GStreamer Multimedia Framework - Richard Spiers - 42m
http://www.archive.org/details/clug-30-09-2008-gstreamer

How to rock the show with KDE - Lydia Pintscher - 30m
http://akademy.kde.org/conference/presentation/42.php
- "How to present the KDE project at a conference."


**  Download the talk videos you want to see the day _before_ the
meeting, so your internet connection is free to do VOIP, & not consumed
with the video download.  :)


=====================================================================
=====  JOIN THE BERKELEY-TIP MAILING LIST
Join the mailing list, say "Hi", & introduce yourself, or just follow
the discussions.
Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal


=====================================================================
=====  UC BERKELEY LOCATION DETAILS
==  We'll probably be meeting at the FreeSpeech Cafe at Moffitt
Undergrad Library, as usual.  See the BTIP web site for the map link &
directions, important things to bring, & any last minute
details/changes.

*****  BRING VOIP HEADSET-MICROPHONE !!!!! :)  *****
I'd like to minimize use of laptop speakers audio output, because that
creates possible feedback problems into other users microphone inputs.

==  Please RSVP if > 50% probability you'll attend Berkeley location
Please _do_ come even if you haven't RSVP'd.  :)
The RSVPs just ensure we can plan ahead to have enough of any necessary
facilities for everyone.  RSVP's are not necessary, but are appreciated.
 Thanks.  :)
RSVP either directly to my email address, or to the BTIP mailing list.


=====================================================================
=====  EDUCATIONAL OUTREACH - SPRING 2009 - COLLEGES & UNIVERSITIES
Join our effort to bring the BerkeleyTIP monthly meetings to local
in-person gatherings at Colleges & Universities everywhere.    :)

You are encouraged to do any of these you want to:
1) Organize a local meeting at a college or university.
   - A WIFI cafe, or classroom, is a great place to meet.  :)
2) Invite attendees by email - you can forward, and add to, this email.
3) Put up meeting announcement posters where appropriate - 
   -  see the BTIP site for the current poster 8.5x11 inch ODF file.

DO: Join the BTIP mailing list & let's discuss & share ideas about how
to make this a success.  :)


=====================================================================
=====  RECORD YOUR LOCAL MEETINGS' TALKS
It's easy.  Bring a video camera, tripod, lapel pin microphone, &
microphone cable.  Or, just put your camera within about 5-10 feet from
the speaker.  Put your video online - the internet archive is a great
place.

Be sure to send me a link.  :)    I'll try to schedule all newly
recorded videos into the next BerkeleyTIP meeting.  :)


=====================================================================
=====  FORWARD THIS ANNOUNCEMENT EMAIL WHERE APPROPRIATE
You are invited to forward this email wherever appropriate.
Pass the word on, encourage other people to attend the meeting,
& encourage the growth, improvement & strengthening of all
Public Property, Community, "Free as in Freedom & FreeSpeech" software. 

:)



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Feb  3 18:24:34 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 18:24:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF Feb 14 meeting...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902031824h15b6e028n316a4e3e1bf6fbeb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi SF-LUG'ers,

OLPC-SF will meet once again on the 14th of February, 2009.

The agenda items are (hint: The school server and the XO repair parts
may interest you...):

* Education, Technology and Outreach: A model for groups and deployments.
* Someone from a local school (Starr King?) has 14 XOs and would like
to get going with them. This may very well be OLPC-SF's first
deployment. Five people from this group will be at the meeting.
* Working with a local Montessori, and Elementary Education program at
SF State. What should we look at?
* Progress report on OLPC-SF XO Repair Center.
* Bring your XOs for the usual software upgrades (build 767 aka
release 8.2) if you haven't already done so.
* School server with the latest stable build (XS-0.5.1).

Details posted at: http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/605 and on the wiki
at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_San_Francisco_Bay_Area

Please forward to anyone who may be interested.

cheers,
Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  4 15:20:39 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:20:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Splunk> Employment connection
Message-ID: <279722.75261.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,
Does anybody on the list no anybody who works at Splunk>? They are looking for a Web Editor that fits my skills precisely. Thanks to anyone who views this posting. Vince
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From nbs at sonic.net  Fri Feb  6 15:02:19 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:02:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [OT] Atari Party in Davis, March 28th
Message-ID: <20090206230219.GA11741@sonic.net>


On Sat. March 28th at the Davis Public Library, I'll be hosting an
'Atari Party'.  Think of it as a tiny, mini, Atari-game-system-oriented
version of California Extreme or Vintage Computer Festival.

I'll be bringing my Atari 8-bit computer (with SD memory card reader!),
Atari 7800 game system, Flasbhack 2 (modern Atari 2600 with built-in games),
Atari Lynx handhelds, an Atari Jaguar, and more!

Free, open to the public.  And will run from 6pm-9pm.
More at: http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/atariparty/


And to make it vaguely on-topic, the Atari 8-bit computer's OS
had a concept of devices (screen, printer, disk, cassette, modem,
etc.) that's somewhat similar to Un*x's "/dev".
Plus, I grew up with an Atari 8-bit computer, and that
era of systems and games inspire my work on open source games
and the Tux Paint project. :^D

-- 
-bill!
"Tux Paint" - free children's drawing software for Windows / Mac OS X / Linux!
Download it today!  http://www.tuxpaint.org/



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Feb  6 16:30:01 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 16:30:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft's "open source" guru job posting
Message-ID: <4b5781040902061630r6af6c032j8ab8b097efbbeb26@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=652401&fromSearch=0&sik=1233902901473

I am assuming that this job posting, like all job postings, will disappear
in the not-too-distant future, and so I have posted it in its entirety here:

 *Director, Open Source Desktop Strategy* at
*Microsoft<http://www.linkedin.com/companies/1035?trk=jobtocomp>
*

*Location:* Greater Seattle Area

*URL:* http://www.microsoft.com<http://www.linkedin.com/redirect?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emicrosoft%2Ecom&urlhash=s0mx>
 Apply Now<http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?startApply=&jobId=652401&goback=%2Evjn_652401>
 Type:Full-timeExperience:DirectorFunctions:Consulting, Strategy /
Planning, Product Management, Business Development Industries:Computer
Software Posted:February 5, 2009 Job Description

The Windows Competitive Strategy team is looking for a strong team member to
lead Microsoft's global desktop competitive strategy as it relates to open
source competitors. Our team mission is to gather intelligence, create
business strategies, and drive action in the marketplace for the Windows
Client business. In this job, you will be asked to think strategically, put
yourself in the mindset of our competitors, influence multi-million dollar
marketing campaigns, and drive high-level executive thinking around business
strategy.
As the Director of Open Source Desktop Strategy you will need to drive
research and build holistic strategies across dynamic market segments like
PCs, NetBooks, and mobile internet devices. You will be responsible for
bringing our business strategy to life by discovering and sharing the market
insights that set the foundation for our platform value dialogue with
customers and the industry
You will need to work directly with customers and partners across the globe,
other product groups, field sales & marketing organizations, and industry
analysts to influence internal, external and partner marketing efforts with
a focus on consumer scenarios.
Responsibilities
In this role you will be expected to:
? Drive our business strategy by delivering strategy reviews to Microsoft
executives
? Drive primary and secondary market research activities to inform marketing
strategies
? Manage technical analysis of competitive platforms
? Create a rational set of proof points that promote Microsoft's comparative
value
? Build a fact-based marketing plan that articulates the Windows Client
value proposition to partners and customers
? Collaborate with the owners of outbound marketing channels, such as PR,
advertising, analysts, field, and partners
? Manage a marketing budget and influence worldwide subsidiary participation
to drive our strategy
Skills

Qualifications:
The candidate must be a highly motivated self-starter, with a proven track
record of successful execution. Successful candidates must be able to think
strategically and creatively about business issues on a global scale, while
developing and executing detailed marketing plans. Building collaborative
relationships across organizations and motivating and leading virtual teams
to achieve collective impact will be essential, as will the ability to
juggle multiple work streams at one time. Experience working with
international teams is desirable.

A BS/A in a technical field is strongly desired and an MBA is preferred.
Familiarity with Open Source products is required. Working knowledge of x86
and ARM architectures a plus, but not required for candidates with strong
aptitude. 5+ years experience in a related field working on projects that
require strategic thinking, broad market impact, and business / technical
marketing message development & delivery preferred.
Additional Information

   - Applicants with recommendations are preferred.(You have 0
   recommendations <http://www.linkedin.com/references?mrs=>)
   - Referrals through network preferred.

  Job ID: 652401
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From bliss at sfo.com  Fri Feb  6 18:32:50 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 18:32:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That sad Dell Dimension 2400
Message-ID: <498CF2D2.7020404@sfo.com>

    Jim Stockford tested the Power Supply for
me earlier this week after I passed it over to
him at the February 1 meeting.  It was not
doing much in the power supply department
he found.
    So I hopefully ordered a upgrade PS
for less than $29 including shipping

  
     This afternoon after only a few days wait
I got the new power supply and hooked it
up but got no good results.  No results at
all besides fans and the power light coming on.

      Daniel G. reminded me at the last
SF-LUG meeting that the PS failure could take out
the hard drive as well as the motherboard.

    I managed to pull the drive and got it into
a USB case and plugged it into my Inspiron and
all the files are there.  Hoorah!

    So it looks like the Dimension is an former computer.
    The case size form factor is good but still tight with
only one case side removable and the other riveted in
place.  The Dimension's hard drive is mounted vertically
at front of the computer which is a bit awkward to deal
with and fitting a second hard drive requires buying a
specially made bracket  so I think I have to find a
new box of a similar form factor without the negative
aspects of the Dell box\ and a fresh motherboard.

    later
    Bobbie Sellers





From jim at well.com  Fri Feb  6 19:04:07 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:04:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That sad Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <498CF2D2.7020404@sfo.com>
References: <498CF2D2.7020404@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <1233975847.6719.24.camel@jim-laptop>


   you might try to find a generic case and 
a generic motherboard and see if you can pop 
some working components (e.g. disk drives, 
RAM...) into the machine. the street is a 
good place for cases. 
   i'm interested in finding a motherboard 
that has very low power requirements, is 
fanless, and has a total vertical height of 
1 1/2 inches or less. i'm thinking of 
driving out of san francisco city limits 
to chase this down, maybe go to fries in 
palo alto. 
   you, bobby, and anyone else interested 
in such a trek, are welcome to join me. 
(bobby, you might find a suitable mobo at 
fries, both wrt cost and performance). 


On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 18:32 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Jim Stockford tested the Power Supply for
> me earlier this week after I passed it over to
> him at the February 1 meeting.  It was not
> doing much in the power supply department
> he found.
>     So I hopefully ordered a upgrade PS
> for less than $29 including shipping
> 
>   
>      This afternoon after only a few days wait
> I got the new power supply and hooked it
> up but got no good results.  No results at
> all besides fans and the power light coming on.
> 
>       Daniel G. reminded me at the last
> SF-LUG meeting that the PS failure could take out
> the hard drive as well as the motherboard.
> 
>     I managed to pull the drive and got it into
> a USB case and plugged it into my Inspiron and
> all the files are there.  Hoorah!
> 
>     So it looks like the Dimension is an former computer.
>     The case size form factor is good but still tight with
> only one case side removable and the other riveted in
> place.  The Dimension's hard drive is mounted vertically
> at front of the computer which is a bit awkward to deal
> with and fitting a second hard drive requires buying a
> specially made bracket  so I think I have to find a
> new box of a similar form factor without the negative
> aspects of the Dell box\ and a fresh motherboard.
> 
>     later
>     Bobbie Sellers
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Feb  7 01:31:03 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 01:31:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That sad Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <1233975847.6719.24.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <498CF2D2.7020404@sfo.com> <1233975847.6719.24.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090207093103.GF16400@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    i'm interested in finding a motherboard 
> that has very low power requirements, is 
> fanless, and has a total vertical height of 
> 1 1/2 inches or less. i'm thinking of 
> driving out of san francisco city limits 
> to chase this down, maybe go to fries in 
> palo alto. 
>    you, bobby, and anyone else interested 
> in such a trek, are welcome to join me. 
> (bobby, you might find a suitable mobo at 
> fries, both wrt cost and performance). 

Hey, Jim,  Bobby, and company:

Please consider stopping by my place (1105 Altschul Ave. @ Gordon Ave.,
Menlo Park) before or after your South Bay foray, to hang out and chat,
and discuss hardware for Linux.  (I'll probably be working on some P4
rackmount servers I've recently received.)   And, of course, if you want
to duplicate any of CABAL's Linux & BSD CD/DVD collection, I'll have those.

My cellular:  650-283-7902.

By the way, if you're shopping for computer hardware in the South Bay,
I'd personally stop at Central Computer before going to Fry's.  For that
matter, Central has a perfectly fine office in SoMa -- not that I want
to discourage you from coming to visit.




From jim at well.com  Sat Feb  7 09:48:16 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2009 09:48:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] That sad Dell Dimension 2400
In-Reply-To: <20090207093103.GF16400@linuxmafia.com>
References: <498CF2D2.7020404@sfo.com> <1233975847.6719.24.camel@jim-laptop>
	<20090207093103.GF16400@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1234028896.6719.50.camel@jim-laptop>


   Thanks much! i'll let you know when and who 
might be showing up. 
   so who'd like a weekday trip to check out 
computer mobos and distro CDs and chat? looks 
like i'm free any day but tuesday AM and can 
take as many as three personages besides me. 
jim 

On Sat, 2009-02-07 at 01:31 -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting jim (jim at well.com):
> 
> >    i'm interested in finding a motherboard 
> > that has very low power requirements, is 
> > fanless, and has a total vertical height of 
> > 1 1/2 inches or less. i'm thinking of 
> > driving out of san francisco city limits 
> > to chase this down, maybe go to fries in 
> > palo alto. 
> >    you, bobby, and anyone else interested 
> > in such a trek, are welcome to join me. 
> > (bobby, you might find a suitable mobo at 
> > fries, both wrt cost and performance). 
> 
> Hey, Jim,  Bobby, and company:
> 
> Please consider stopping by my place (1105 Altschul Ave. @ Gordon Ave.,
> Menlo Park) before or after your South Bay foray, to hang out and chat,
> and discuss hardware for Linux.  (I'll probably be working on some P4
> rackmount servers I've recently received.)   And, of course, if you want
> to duplicate any of CABAL's Linux & BSD CD/DVD collection, I'll have those.
> 
> My cellular:  650-283-7902.
> 
> By the way, if you're shopping for computer hardware in the South Bay,
> I'd personally stop at Central Computer before going to Fry's.  For that
> matter, Central has a perfectly fine office in SoMa -- not that I want
> to discourage you from coming to visit.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sat Feb  7 10:25:47 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 10:25:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft's "open source" guru job posting
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902061630r6af6c032j8ab8b097efbbeb26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902061630r6af6c032j8ab8b097efbbeb26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902071025j4c4c72fdm3fa10d8a96036cc7@mail.gmail.com>

2009/2/6 Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>:
> hi,
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob=&jobId=652401&fromSearch=0&sik=1233902901473
>
> I am assuming that this job posting, like all job postings, will disappear
> in the not-too-distant future, and so I have posted it in its entirety here:
>
> Director, Open Source Desktop Strategy at Microsoft
>
> Location: Greater Seattle Area
>
> URL: http://www.microsoft.com
>
> Apply Now
> Type:Full-timeExperience:DirectorFunctions:Consulting, Strategy /
> Planning, Product Management, Business Development  Industries:Computer
> Software Posted:February 5, 2009
>
> Job Description
>
> The Windows Competitive Strategy team is looking for a strong team member to
> lead Microsoft's global desktop competitive strategy as it relates to open
> source competitors. Our team mission is to gather intelligence, create
> business strategies, and drive action in the marketplace for the Windows
> Client business. In this job, you will be asked to think strategically, put
> yourself in the mindset of our competitors, influence multi-million dollar
> marketing campaigns, and drive high-level executive thinking around business
> strategy.
> As the Director of Open Source Desktop Strategy you will need to drive
> research and build holistic strategies across dynamic market segments like
> PCs, NetBooks, and mobile internet devices. You will be responsible for
> bringing our business strategy to life by discovering and sharing the market
> insights that set the foundation for our platform value dialogue with
> customers and the industry
> You will need to work directly with customers and partners across the globe,
> other product groups, field sales & marketing organizations, and industry
> analysts to influence internal, external and partner marketing efforts with
> a focus on consumer scenarios.
> Responsibilities
> In this role you will be expected to:
> ? Drive our business strategy by delivering strategy reviews to Microsoft
> executives
> ? Drive primary and secondary market research activities to inform marketing
> strategies
> ? Manage technical analysis of competitive platforms
> ? Create a rational set of proof points that promote Microsoft's comparative
> value
> ? Build a fact-based marketing plan that articulates the Windows Client
> value proposition to partners and customers
> ? Collaborate with the owners of outbound marketing channels, such as PR,
> advertising, analysts, field, and partners
> ? Manage a marketing budget and influence worldwide subsidiary participation
> to drive our strategy
>
> Skills
>
> Qualifications:
> The candidate must be a highly motivated self-starter, with a proven track
> record of successful execution. Successful candidates must be able to think
> strategically and creatively about business issues on a global scale, while
> developing and executing detailed marketing plans. Building collaborative
> relationships across organizations and motivating and leading virtual teams
> to achieve collective impact will be essential, as will the ability to
> juggle multiple work streams at one time. Experience working with
> international teams is desirable.
>
> A BS/A in a technical field is strongly desired and an MBA is preferred.
> Familiarity with Open Source products is required. Working knowledge of x86
> and ARM architectures a plus, but not required for candidates with strong
> aptitude. 5+ years experience in a related field working on projects that
> require strategic thinking, broad market impact, and business / technical
> marketing message development & delivery preferred.
>
> Additional Information
>
> Applicants with recommendations are preferred.(You have 0 recommendations)
> Referrals through network preferred.
>
> Job ID: 652401
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>

I find the "Working knowledge of x86 and ARM architectures a plus," an
interesting description. There's a lot of talk over at OLPC to make
the next incarnation of the XO to be based on ARM and Ubuntu is active
in that are (Ubuntu Netbook Remix on ARM).
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html Of course, Debian
supports ARM (http://www.debian.org/ports/arm/)

It looks like the next round of laptops may very well be ARM based
(sorta like Nokia N810, but expanded to Netbook form factor) and maybe
that's where the battle will be fought.

Then again, its Saturday morning and I'm caffeinated and speculative :-)
--
Sameer



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  7 13:05:51 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 13:05:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Dual Booting Linux Ubuntu/CentOS...Learning purposes
Message-ID: <379232.15605.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I want to dual boot Ubuntu, already installed, and CentOS. Debian/Redhat. I wanted to create a virtual machine of CentOS using VirtualBox. But it just wasn't going to happen. I tried a straight install to the free space I have on my hard disk. But, I was told I have to many "Primary Partitions", 4. I have; /, /boot, /home and /swap. Is there a tool I can use to remove /home and /swap from the primary partitions? And have them shared? I downloaded GParted. Thanks.
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From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Sat Feb  7 21:03:23 2009
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 21:03:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Dual Booting Linux Ubuntu/CentOS...Learning purposes
In-Reply-To: <379232.15605.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <379232.15605.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <dc4b6aae0902072103x29367512g766454a753d42965@mail.gmail.com>

1) Backup, assume the worst happens and you have to restore all from your
backup.
2)Plan your disk layout.  None of the OSes you mentioned cares about whether
its partition is a primary,
but a future Windoz might.  You may have 3 primaries, and and extended
partition.  Within the extended,
you may have as many partitions as you need (some limit, but not one you are
likely to run into with what you
stated).  You certainly may share the swap partition among all the OSes you
mentioned (and even point a Windoz to it for page with a little work).
/home is another good partition to share -- just ensure your user/group ids
are the same across OSes.  /boot used to be separate to keep it within a
certain number of cylinders of the disk beginning for BIOS access, but not
sure that's still an issue anymore.  Putting it behind a / however makes
that a moot issue -- if it works there, it would still work as a regular
directory within the /.
3  Assuming you want to leave / alone (and /boot), looks like you wa)nt to
turn swap off, delete the swap partition, unmount /home, shrink the /home
partition to free up some space on the disk for other partitions, then
create an extended partiton with all the free space.  Then you may create
logical partitions within the extended, including swap.
4)   Remount /home and turn on swap (?? better check the /etc/fstab
descriptions to make sure, I'm not sure how much GParted does for you)  and
you should have your disk numbered (e.g. hda) hda1, hda2, hda3 (your first
three primaries), hda4 (your extended which you do not use directly), and
hda5 ... as your logical partitions
5) Install new Oses in hda5 ...
But remember, above all, backup first!
Good Luck
Ken
2009/2/7 vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>

> I want to dual boot Ubuntu, already installed, and CentOS. Debian/Redhat. I
> wanted to create a virtual machine of CentOS using VirtualBox. But it just
> wasn't going to happen. I tried a straight install to the free space I have
> on my hard disk. But, I was told I have to many "Primary Partitions", 4. I
> have; /, /boot, /home and /swap. Is there a tool I can use to remove /home
> and /swap from the primary partitions? And have them shared? I downloaded
> GParted. Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Feb  8 03:21:38 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 03:21:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Dual Booting Linux Ubuntu/CentOS...Learning purposes
In-Reply-To: <379232.15605.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <379232.15605.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090208112138.GB13835@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> I tried a straight install to the free space I have on my hard disk.
> But, I was told I have too many "Primary Partitions", 4. I have; /,
> /boot, /home and /swap.

To be more precise, you have four entries within a data structure (the
standard type of partition table) that, on each physical hard drive, has
exactly four slots.  Originally, back in the 1980s early DOS days, that
was all you could get.  Using those four slots in the original,
circa-1982 fashion has been retroactively dubbed the use of "primary"
partitions.

A couple of years into the DOS era, though, somebody figured out a
trick:  Set a (previously unused) flag bit on one of the partitions that
by convention marked it as being an "extended" partition type, one that
is further subdivided via a subsidiary partition table (listing
"logical" partitions) in its initial sector, making possible a large
number of total partitions.

So, now that you understand a bit better the way partitioning works, you
should be able to see why that unallocated "free space" you left is
currently inaccessible:  The space is there, but the data structure
you'd want to point to it (the partition table) is _full_.

Your obvious way out is to delete one of your existing primary
partitions -- I nominate "swap", since it has no data on it -- create in
the place of that _primary_ partition an _extended_ partition taking up
all free space on the disk, then creating within that extended partition
logical partitions for your various other purposes including swap.

You should do these sorts of operations using your choice of Linux live
CD disk, by the way -- Ubuntu "desktop" disk, Knoppix, Damn Small Linux,
whatever.  _Not_ from your installed system.  (Also, before blowing away
your swap partition, I'd recommend booting up your installed Linux
system and commenting out the line in /etc/fstab for swap.  You can
re-enable it later, and meanwhile its absence won't be fatal.)

So, do that, and you can have as many partitions (within reason) as you
can possibly use.  /sbin/fdisk or /sbin/cfdisk (or a variety of other
things) can create partitions.  /sbin/mkswap will format swap partitions.
/sbin/mkfs.ext3 will format data-bearing partitions.  Go to town.

(However, please see reasons below as to why you might not want to go to
town, after all.  ;->  )

> Is there a tool I can use to remove /home and /swap from the primary
> partitions? And have them shared? 

It's usually a bad idea to try to have /home shared between Linux
distributions.  The reason is initially non-obvious:  Inevitably, it
will turn out that your two or more distributions have different
versions of some important applications or tools, that create "dotfile"
directories within your home directory.  Consider GNOME, which is among
those:  It keeps a bunch of stuff in .gnome, .gnome2, .gconf, .metacity,
and heavens knows what other directories within your homedir -- and the
format of files it stores within those directories tends to change
between versions.  The catch:  The data formats of what are store there
tends to be forwards-comptible to newer GNOME versions, but not
backwards-compatible to older versions.  So, distro A with GNOME version
n writes conffiles that distro B with GNOME version n+1 can read, _but_, 
the moment distro B updates those conffiles, distro A's GNOME is likely
to choke and die.

By contrast, sharing swap partitions among distros works pretty well.

Anyway, about the larger picture:  You should consider carefully whether
you're sure you want to operate a complex, multiboot system.  You can
get yourself in a lot of trouble, and really ought to make sure you have
a good grounding before doing that.  Given that it's news to you that
you cannot access unallocated free space on a hard drive with four
declared primary partitions, I'd say you do not yet have a good
grounding.


> I want to dual boot Ubuntu, already installed, and CentOS.
> Debian/Redhat. I wanted to create a virtual machine of CentOS using
> VirtualBox. But it just wasn't going to happen. 

Please note:  VirtualBox appears to use "virtual disk images" -- files
on the host operating system that get mounted as if they were disks.
So, it doesn't require partitioning.  So, cutting to the chase, you
should be able to use it within your existing Ubuntu setup _without_
touching your system partitioning.

Do yourself a favour, and plan what your are trying to do, and figure
out what is required, _before_ attempting to make dire changes (such as
repartitioning) to your system.





From jane_ikari at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  8 13:16:25 2009
From: jane_ikari at yahoo.com (bruce coston)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 13:16:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Multi booting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1234123204.5414.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <210162.72581.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>

I multi-boot exclusively , so I can simply reboot into another install when something goes wrong .? I still place a FAT-32 partition on hda1 / sda1 because many distributions automatically set it up to do data exchanges .? I always ask for partition boot from the installer so WHEN some distro overwrites MBR. I can fix it fast or I'll just use GAG. to point at my partitions .? Occasionally some distro will wipe all data from a drive when it sees a partition beyond the 15th .? Occasionally some distro will wipe all data following a filesystem it doesn't know , I lost 9 installs that way once .? I share swap only and often have over 9 distro available at once .? GRUB remains my bootloader of choice but seems to suffer from some version incompatibilities .? I need to do something about the boot sector number too high for bios on my gigabyte 780+sb700 chipset m/b problem with my 500g sata drive .? Is it possible for some distributions to share /boot ?



      
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From b79net at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 12:39:43 2009
From: b79net at gmail.com (John Magolske)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:39:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BART train departure info from the command line
Message-ID: <20090208203942.GA12637@mail.b79.net>

At http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx you can select a station from a
pull-down list to check train departures. But I wanted a way to go
straight to a given station by specifying it on the command-line. For
example, `bart 16` or `bart sfo` to display real-time departures from
the 16th/Mission or SF Airport stations respectively. I thought I'd
pass it along here for any BART traveling command-line aficionados.

The browser used (elinks) could be replaced with another. The other
text-mode browser I'm familiar with is w3m, but it doesn't seem to do
the auto-update of departure times. Something like Firefox would work,
but I wanted everything to happen in one happy little tty.

Kinda makes me want to jump on a train right now! Oh, wait...I do
that Mon-Fri for work...hmmm, maybe better to just kick back & enjoy
the rest of the weekend.

John


----


#!/bin/sh
# A command line tool for checking BART trains departing a given station
# Requires elinks as written here, but that can replaced with another
# browser if you so desire...
# (c)2008 John Magolske, GPL v3
# Last edit: 2009/02/07 Sat 13:13 PST

# If no station is specified go to the bart.gov/wireless pull-down list
[ "$#" -eq 0 ] &&\
elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx && exit 0

# created easier to remember (for me) short-names for each station:
ash="ASHB"      # Ashby
bal="BALB"      # Balboa Park
cas="CAST"      # Castro Valley
bay="BAYF"      # Bay Fair
civ="CIVC"      # Civic Center
col="COLS"      # Coliseum/Oakland
colma="COLM"    # Colma
con="CONC"      # Concord
daly="DALY"     # Daly City
berk="DBRK"     # Downtown Berkeley
dub="DUBL"      # Dublin/Pleasanton
cern="DELN"     # El Cerrito del Norte
cerp="PLZA"     # El Cerrito Plaza
emb="EMBR"      # Embarcadero
free="FRMT"     # Fremont
fruit="FTVL"    # Fruitvale
glen="GLEN"     # Glen Park
hey="HAYW"      # Hayward
laf="LAFY"      # Lafayette
lake="LAKE"     # Lake Merritt
mac="MCAR"      # MacArthur
mill="MLBR"     # Millbrae
mont="MONT"     # Montgomery St.
nberk="NBRK"    # North Berkeley
ncon="NCON"     # North Concord/Martinez
orin="ORIN"     # Orinda
pit="PITT"      # Pittsburg/Bay Point
phill="PHIL"    # Pleasant Hill
pow="POWL"      # Powell St.
rich="RICH"     # Richmond
rock="ROCK"     # Rockridge
sanb="SBRN"     # San Bruno
sfo="SFIA"      # San Francisco Int\'l Airport
slean="SANL"    # San Leandro
shay="SHAY"     # South Hayward
ssf="SSAN"      # South San Francisco
uni="UCTY"      # Union City
wcreek="WCRK"   # Walnut Creek
woak="WOAK"     # West Oakland

eval sta="\$$1"

# variables can't begin with a number, for numbered stations do it like:
[ "$1" = "16" ] && sta="16TH"   # 16th St. Mission (SF)
[ "$1" = "24" ] && sta="24TH"   # 24th St. Mission (SF)
[ "$1" = "12" ] && sta="12TH"   # 12th St. Oakland City Center
[ "$1" = "19" ] && sta="19TH"   # 19th St. Oakland

# call up bart.gov/wireless & go directly to the specified station
elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/stationdetails.aspx?station="$sta"

## end of script ##


-- 
John Magolske
http://B79.net/contact



From andrewevansc at gmail.com  Sun Feb  8 19:32:56 2009
From: andrewevansc at gmail.com (Andrew E)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 19:32:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Installing Apache, PHP
Message-ID: <bd7bad4c0902081932i18536eefn2c7c02e02d5fbd1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I've been on the list for awhile, but this is my first post. I am going to
install PHP on a Linux/Apache server. The newest version of PHP is 5.2.8 .
Has anyone run into any issues that I should be ready for when installing
this version of PHP or any general snags?

I'm working on a freshly set up Linux+Apache server, so it's still default
everything. I really don't want to mess this up as this is my first project
in my new position. Then comes installing Magento, but that's a whole other
can of worms...

Thank you,

Andrew
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Feb  8 20:17:46 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 20:17:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BART train departure info from the command line
In-Reply-To: <20090208203942.GA12637@mail.b79.net>
References: <20090208203942.GA12637@mail.b79.net>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902082017x5b165e88if98d0a8e5d7ef4fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:39 PM, John Magolske <b79net at gmail.com> wrote:
> At http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx you can select a station from a
> pull-down list to check train departures. But I wanted a way to go
> straight to a given station by specifying it on the command-line. For
> example, `bart 16` or `bart sfo` to display real-time departures from
> the 16th/Mission or SF Airport stations respectively. I thought I'd
> pass it along here for any BART traveling command-line aficionados.
>
> The browser used (elinks) could be replaced with another. The other
> text-mode browser I'm familiar with is w3m, but it doesn't seem to do
> the auto-update of departure times. Something like Firefox would work,
> but I wanted everything to happen in one happy little tty.
>
> Kinda makes me want to jump on a train right now! Oh, wait...I do
> that Mon-Fri for work...hmmm, maybe better to just kick back & enjoy
> the rest of the weekend.
>
> John
>
>
> ----
>
>
> #!/bin/sh
> # A command line tool for checking BART trains departing a given station
> # Requires elinks as written here, but that can replaced with another
> # browser if you so desire...
> # (c)2008 John Magolske, GPL v3
> # Last edit: 2009/02/07 Sat 13:13 PST
>
> # If no station is specified go to the bart.gov/wireless pull-down list
> [ "$#" -eq 0 ] &&\
> elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx && exit 0
>
> # created easier to remember (for me) short-names for each station:
> ash="ASHB"      # Ashby
> bal="BALB"      # Balboa Park
> cas="CAST"      # Castro Valley
> bay="BAYF"      # Bay Fair
> civ="CIVC"      # Civic Center
> col="COLS"      # Coliseum/Oakland
> colma="COLM"    # Colma
> con="CONC"      # Concord
> daly="DALY"     # Daly City
> berk="DBRK"     # Downtown Berkeley
> dub="DUBL"      # Dublin/Pleasanton
> cern="DELN"     # El Cerrito del Norte
> cerp="PLZA"     # El Cerrito Plaza
> emb="EMBR"      # Embarcadero
> free="FRMT"     # Fremont
> fruit="FTVL"    # Fruitvale
> glen="GLEN"     # Glen Park
> hey="HAYW"      # Hayward
> laf="LAFY"      # Lafayette
> lake="LAKE"     # Lake Merritt
> mac="MCAR"      # MacArthur
> mill="MLBR"     # Millbrae
> mont="MONT"     # Montgomery St.
> nberk="NBRK"    # North Berkeley
> ncon="NCON"     # North Concord/Martinez
> orin="ORIN"     # Orinda
> pit="PITT"      # Pittsburg/Bay Point
> phill="PHIL"    # Pleasant Hill
> pow="POWL"      # Powell St.
> rich="RICH"     # Richmond
> rock="ROCK"     # Rockridge
> sanb="SBRN"     # San Bruno
> sfo="SFIA"      # San Francisco Int\'l Airport
> slean="SANL"    # San Leandro
> shay="SHAY"     # South Hayward
> ssf="SSAN"      # South San Francisco
> uni="UCTY"      # Union City
> wcreek="WCRK"   # Walnut Creek
> woak="WOAK"     # West Oakland
>
> eval sta="\$$1"
>
> # variables can't begin with a number, for numbered stations do it like:
> [ "$1" = "16" ] && sta="16TH"   # 16th St. Mission (SF)
> [ "$1" = "24" ] && sta="24TH"   # 24th St. Mission (SF)
> [ "$1" = "12" ] && sta="12TH"   # 12th St. Oakland City Center
> [ "$1" = "19" ] && sta="19TH"   # 19th St. Oakland
>
> # call up bart.gov/wireless & go directly to the specified station
> elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/stationdetails.aspx?station="$sta"
>
> ## end of script ##
>
>
> --
> John Magolske
> http://B79.net/contact
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

This is way cool!!!

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Feb  9 01:46:20 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 01:46:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Installing Apache, PHP
In-Reply-To: <bd7bad4c0902081932i18536eefn2c7c02e02d5fbd1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd7bad4c0902081932i18536eefn2c7c02e02d5fbd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090209094620.GG13835@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Andrew E (andrewevansc at gmail.com):

> I've been on the list for awhile, but this is my first post.

Welcome!

> I am going to install PHP on a Linux/Apache server. The newest version
> of PHP is 5.2.8 .  Has anyone run into any issues that I should be
> ready for when installing this version of PHP or any general snags?

As far as making PHP _work_, inside Apache httpd, is concerned, most
Linux distributions make it really easy, configuring on the glue
conffile stuff for you automatically just by virtue of installing the
distribution's packages.

By contrast, attempting to install non-distribution-issued files, such
as tarballs of PHP, necessitates doing all that work yourself (which is
one of many reasons to avoid going outside distro packages if you can
possibly avoid it).  I'm assuming this is _your_ Linux/Apache system
you're talking about, i.e., one where you have root authority and are
permitted to install software on it.

Above and beyond just making it work, you might want to spend some time
going over PHP's security.   One place to start:  "PHP" on
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Security/

> Then comes installing Magento, but that's a whole other can of
> worms...

You'll need to carefully review what Magento requires from PHP5's
configuration.  I don't _think_ any of my security suggestions conflicts
with what the Magento folks list
(http://www.magentocommerce.com/system-requirements), but you should
make sure.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Feb  9 02:13:15 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 02:13:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Multi booting
In-Reply-To: <210162.72581.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3.1234123204.5414.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<210162.72581.qm@web65507.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090209101315.GH13835@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bruce Coston (jane_ikari at yahoo.com):

> I multi-boot exclusively , so I can simply reboot into another install
> when something goes wrong .

You should tutor Vince.  ;->

You've listed a number of interesting tips for multi-booters, and *I*
can tell what you mean by all of them, but I'm betting that you'll need
to elaborate on most of them, before they'd be widely understood.

> Is it possible for some distributions to share /boot ?

I'm not sure I'd want to try.  Each distro would assume the right to
mess with the contents, and their fighting over files in /boot/grub
would be particularly dire.  And what would you gain, really?  A few
megs?




From toya at linefeed.org  Mon Feb  9 10:04:06 2009
From: toya at linefeed.org (toya)
Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:04:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Installing Apache, PHP
In-Reply-To: <bd7bad4c0902081932i18536eefn2c7c02e02d5fbd1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <bd7bad4c0902081932i18536eefn2c7c02e02d5fbd1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49907016.5070307@linefeed.org>

I believe you should check if Magento and whatever else you will run on
this LAMP works good with php5.2.8 - that would be the major problem you
might have. The version of php and how it will work with apache it
shouldn't be a problem.  Also checks what would be the best version of
mysql for the application you will run on this LAMP server.

hope this help,
toya


Andrew E wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've been on the list for awhile, but this is my first post. I am
> going to install PHP on a Linux/Apache server. The newest version of
> PHP is 5.2.8 . Has anyone run into any issues that I should be ready
> for when installing this version of PHP or any general snags?
>
> I'm working on a freshly set up Linux+Apache server, so it's still
> default everything. I really don't want to mess this up as this is my
> first project in my new position. Then comes installing Magento, but
> that's a whole other can of worms...
>
> Thank you,
>
> Andrew
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>   




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Feb  9 11:04:53 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:04:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Feb 9 6:30 PM: Chapter 13
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902091104390.21379@renaissance>

(Thanks to the new folks who joined a few weeks ago; it's great to have 
new people around!)

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Feb 9 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 13

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book014.html

This week, we look at dat structure selection. This is the part where things 
get really interesting: we know enough to actually make interesting choices! We 
even get to generate pseudo-English with a technique called Markov analysis.

IF YOU ARE NEW

Remember that the point of the class is to help you answer questions you have. 
To that end, *read Chapter 13* so that you can make sense of the general class 
discussion.

In addition, work forward in the text starting with chapter 1. I *urge* you to 
send me your exercises for any chapters; I can provide good feedback. Focus on 
the exercises for Chapter 11 so that we can have a coherent conversation in 
class, and feel free to ask me questions about earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on the 
sf-lug list (since that's where this all started).

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.




From jim at well.com  Tue Feb 10 09:46:58 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:46:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] top ten spammer-friendly dns registrars
Message-ID: <1234288018.6719.157.camel@jim-laptop>


   network world has an article about a study 
that names what it has found are the ten dns 
registration entities most friendly to domain 
names associated with spam. 

   the text of the article is informative: 
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/020609-top-10-spam-friendly-registrars-named.html?nlhtsec=ts_020909&nladname=020909securityal 

   here are the ten: 
1. Xinet
2. eNom
3. Network Solutions
4. Register.com
5. Planetonline
6. RegTime
7. OnlineNIC
8. SpotDomains
9. Wild West Domains
10. Hichina Web Solutions 






From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Feb 10 09:57:00 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:57:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>

We are going to have a visitor on campus today. From Microsoft. His
job is "...to work with the brightest minds at schools throughout
Northern California to make sure they have what they need to succeed
with technology". In honor of this visit and the "free software" he's
going to raffle off, I've set up my own raffle page. Take a look!
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/608

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 10:37:58 2009
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:37:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a0d56080902101037t107adea0ufae25a8eed699f06@mail.gmail.com>

That's a great link, Sameer!

Last year, I spoke to the LUG on the campus of Oregon State University and
the LUG meeting was in the room across from one of these Microsoft, ahem,
"events. He came over to the lobby before the meeting to where some of us
were gathered to say how much he "loved Linux," so I challenged the guy to a
debate in the LUG meeting, but he said he couldn't do that.

Anyway, the LUG meeting did barely outdraw the Microsoft meeting. Must have
been the pizza at ours (although we weren't giving away any software -- the
grand prize at OSU incidentally was a copy of Rock Star (?), if that's what
that game is called).

Larry Cafiero



On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

> We are going to have a visitor on campus today. From Microsoft. His
> job is "...to work with the brightest minds at schools throughout
> Northern California to make sure they have what they need to succeed
> with technology". In honor of this visit and the "free software" he's
> going to raffle off, I've set up my own raffle page. Take a look!
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/608
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Feb 10 10:49:07 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:49:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software...
In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080902101037t107adea0ufae25a8eed699f06@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a0d56080902101037t107adea0ufae25a8eed699f06@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902101049h594abd90sb65cbbe0ead55956@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Larry Cafiero <larry.cafiero at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a great link, Sameer!
>
> Last year, I spoke to the LUG on the campus of Oregon State University and
> the LUG meeting was in the room across from one of these Microsoft, ahem,
> "events. He came over to the lobby before the meeting to where some of us
> were gathered to say how much he "loved Linux," so I challenged the guy to a
> debate in the LUG meeting, but he said he couldn't do that.
>

Not sanctioned by "the man" perhaps? ;-)

> Anyway, the LUG meeting did barely outdraw the Microsoft meeting. Must have
> been the pizza at ours (although we weren't giving away any software -- the
> grand prize at OSU incidentally was a copy of Rock Star (?), if that's what
> that game is called).

There's something interesting about the thinking behind raffling off
stuff. The players think "I'm exclusive", or "I won something!" as
opposed to "Its free and available all the time...like dirt. Who wants
dirt?"

It would be interesting to actually raffle off boxed copies of the
OpenDisc (CD, case, and all) and see how that goes...

Time to go spend some of that California State taxpayers' money :-)

cheers,
Sameer

>
> Larry Cafiero
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> We are going to have a visitor on campus today. From Microsoft. His
>> job is "...to work with the brightest minds at schools throughout
>> Northern California to make sure they have what they need to succeed
>> with technology". In honor of this visit and the "free software" he's
>> going to raffle off, I've set up my own raffle page. Take a look!
>> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/608
>>
>> cheers,
>> Sameer
>> --
>> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor of Information Systems
>> San Francisco State University
>> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
>> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From bliss at sfo.com  Tue Feb 10 10:59:09 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:59:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software...
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902100957w39e60cfer3c854ca59c3ba59e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4991CE7D.9020405@sfo.com>

Sameer Verma wrote:
> We are going to have a visitor on campus today. From Microsoft. His
> job is "...to work with the brightest minds at schools throughout
> Northern California to make sure they have what they need to succeed
> with technology". In honor of this visit and the "free software" he's
> going to raffle off, I've set up my own raffle page. Take a look!
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/608
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
>   
    That looks good to me and the Ox and the Penguin should
be friends.  I mean I am an Ox(1937) and I really like the
the Penguin.

    later
    Bobbie Sellers




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Feb 10 19:36:53 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:36:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: Tu 2009-02-17 Eddy Mulyono on: ".rpm .deb .ebuild
	.tgz	OMG!" - the state of packaging across Linux OSes
Message-ID: <20090210193653.35815pxh12eb48kc@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2009-02-17 Eddy Mulyono on: ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!" -
the state of packaging across Linux OSes

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-02-17
Eddy Mulyono on: ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!" - the state of packaging
across Linux OSes

In ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!", Eddy will be looking at the current
state of packaging across distros (Ubuntu, Gentoo, rPath), lessons
learned, and what's next.

Eddy Mulyon: opythonista, djangonaut, ubuntero, catholic choir-boy

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

     rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

     6:30pm
     Tuesday, February 17th, 2009 2009-02-17

     Four Seas Restaurant
     731 Grant Ave.
     San Francisco, CA 94108
     Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

http://www.balug.org/

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From alchaiken at gmail.com  Tue Feb 10 20:35:26 2009
From: alchaiken at gmail.com (Alison Chaiken)
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 20:35:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software
Message-ID: <cd7dd44d0902102035h122780e3qc27479b61b060a4a@mail.gmail.com>

Excellent, Sameer!

1st prize: a Windows Vista installation DVD!
2nd prize: two Windows Vista installation DVDs!

-- 
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600  (cell)                    	
http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
The Human Genome is smaller than Microsoft Office.   -- Steve Jurvetson



From jim at well.com  Wed Feb 11 10:38:57 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 10:38:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meets February 26 at Symantec
Message-ID: <1234377537.6719.245.camel@jim-laptop>


(BayPIGgies thanks Google for hosting us in the last 
few years. Now we've moved.) 

Beginning February and for some months afterward, 
baypiggies will meet at the Symantec Vcafe at 
350 Ellis Street, Mountain View, CA 94043 
on the fourth thursday of each month, 
from 7:30 to 9 PM. 

For February 26: The Factory Module, by Pete Fein 
possible additional talk on PyDev 
Newbie Nugget: Decorators, by Charles Merriam 


At this time, subsequent meeting topics appear to be: 

March 26: Tools Night, coordinated by Simeon Franklin 

April 23: Alternatives for Writing C and C++ Extensions 
for Computer Vision Research, by Dameon Eads






From mapton at AA-Technical-Recruiter.com  Wed Feb 11 21:43:58 2009
From: mapton at AA-Technical-Recruiter.com (Mark Apton)
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:43:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] System Administrator needed in San Francisco, CA;
In-Reply-To: <5AA5F3569DA4463DAD168BD302B497B9@aptonc1>
References: <5AA5F3569DA4463DAD168BD302B497B9@aptonc1>
Message-ID: <52813a80902112143l4384f31cq96129f243d42d08@mail.gmail.com>

Apton Associates is working with the global leader in brand protection of
enterprises. They offer comprehensive solutions and services that safeguard
revenue, reputation and brands from online risks.

We are looking for a talented multi-tasking individual to work in a fun and
innovative team environment utilizing open source databases of MySQL and
PostgreSQL powering cutting edge web applications.

Job Title: System Administrator;

Position Type; Full-time regular employee with full benefits;

Responsibilities:
.       Handle departmental technical projects to completion
.       Provide day-to-day support for troubleshooting applications as
needed
.       Install OS for UNIX/Linux and Windows
.       Provide off hours support on a rotational basis
.       Implement software upgrades.
.       Provide hardware/software support to staff
.       Respond to monitoring alerts and carry out troubleshooting as needed

Requirements:
.       Strong Linux background ( Knowledge of Red Hat and Gentoo Linux)and
a  good understanding of Windows OS with an ability to use most
     Linux/Windows commands/utilities
.       Familiarity with system administration tools and processes such as
     booting/shutting down a machine, adding or removing user accounts,
     using backup programs and fsck, and maintaining system database files
    (groups, hosts, aliases)
.       Apache administration, Tomcat / Jboss,
.       Shell and Perl scripting
.       Troubleshooting of OS and application problems.
.       Troubleshooting of networking problems (from an OS level)
.       Linux Volume Management experience
.       Ability to write system documentation and detailed technical and/or
     functional specifications
.       Strong troubleshooting, decision-making and problem-solving skills .

.       Hands-on experience monitoring, building and troubleshooting
     Unix/WindowsOperating Systems.
.       Familiarity with Networking/Security technologies (Ethernet,
routers,
     switches, firewalls, VPN).
.       Experience with internet technologies (Apache, DNS, TCP/IP).
.       Experience with monitoring tools
.       SAN experience a plus
.       Familiarity with PostgreSQL and MySQL Databases

Working Knowledge Of:
.       RPM package building
.       Red Hat Kickstart experience
.       CVS and/or Subversion
.       Cfengine
.       Knowledge of Network services i.e DHCP, DNS (BIND), Samba
.       Postfix/Sendmail experience
.       SpamAssassin and/or Postini
.       Xen or VMware experience
.       Network Appliance and/or EMC SAN/NAS devices

Mandatory Requirements:
.       Possess excellent written and verbal communication skills
.       Strong interpersonal skills and the ability to work well with others
     in a team environment
.       5 years experience with Linux/Windows administration.
.       Bachelors Degree in CS or equivalent work experience


Location: San Francisco, CA


If interested please call or send your formatted resume to;

mapton at aa-technical-recruiter.com

Mark Apton
Apton Associates
408 910-6632
www.AA-Technical-Recruiter.com <http://www.aa-technical-recruiter.com/>

If this is not a match for you, please consider forwarding this to
interested parties.
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From bliss at sfo.com  Thu Feb 12 19:01:35 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 19:01:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd:Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan horse inside
 the	Wintel PC]
Message-ID: <4994E28F.1050508@sfo.com>


    This from the Team Amiga mailing list.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	[TAML-WNT] Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan horse inside 
the Wintel PC
Date: 	Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:51:03 +0100 (CET)
From: 	Odd H. Sandvik <thechronic at snipped.no>
Reply-To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com



"The Dell Latitude E4200 and E4300 laptop computers run a version of Linux as an "instant-on" operating system on ARM-based hardware with flash memory. This subsystem is separate to the main Windows Vista or Windows XP operating system running on an Intel Core2 Duo processor. In theory, users can do email and other light applications under Linux, Mozilla and so on, and only need switch to the Windows operating system and the Intel processor for the heavier applications."

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213402554

--
Odd H. Sandvik
_______________________________________________
TAML mailing list
TAML at lists.worldnewstrust.com
http://lists.worldnewstrust.com/listinfo.cgi/taml-worldnewstrust.com





From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 13 07:39:59 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 07:39:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd:Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan
	horse	inside the	Wintel PC]
In-Reply-To: <4994E28F.1050508@sfo.com>
References: <4994E28F.1050508@sfo.com>
Message-ID: <1234539599.6525.59.camel@jim-laptop>



wow! thanks for the info. 

   whatever happened to the linux bios effort? 

   i recently read something to the effect that the 
increase in handheld systems (e.g. cellphones and 
their kin) don't work well with big software such as 
windows but do with more scaleable software such as 
linux. 



On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 19:01 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> This from the Team Amiga mailing list.
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	[TAML-WNT] Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan horse inside 
> the Wintel PC
> Date: 	Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:51:03 +0100 (CET)
> From: 	Odd H. Sandvik <thechronic at snipped.no>
> Reply-To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
> To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
> 
> 
> 
> "The Dell Latitude E4200 and E4300 laptop computers run a version of Linux as an "instant-on" operating system on ARM-based hardware with flash memory. This subsystem is separate to the main Windows Vista or Windows XP operating system running on an Intel Core2 Duo processor. In theory, users can do email and other light applications under Linux, Mozilla and so on, and only need switch to the Windows operating system and the Intel processor for the heavier applications."
> 
> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213402554
> 
> --
> Odd H. Sandvik
> _______________________________________________
> TAML mailing list
> TAML at lists.worldnewstrust.com
> http://lists.worldnewstrust.com/listinfo.cgi/taml-worldnewstrust.com
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From bliss at sfo.com  Fri Feb 13 09:27:52 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:27:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [Fwd:Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan
 horse	inside the	Wintel PC]
In-Reply-To: <1234539599.6525.59.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <4994E28F.1050508@sfo.com> <1234539599.6525.59.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <4995AD98.106@sfo.com>

jim wrote:
> wow! thanks for the info. 
>   

    Yes well I went and looked for the specs on the two models of Latitude
mentioned below and they are expensive, sold only in the business section
and having perused the specs sheet I see no mention of the ARM processor
nor of the Linux functions so i presume they are hidden as phone phunctions
and the ARM is supposed to be there with the Linux to handle these 
functions.
>    whatever happened to the linux bios effort? 
>   
    It changed its name to coreboot.

   <http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_coreboot>

>    i recently read something to the effect that the 
> increase in handheld systems (e.g. cellphones and 
> their kin) don't work well with big software such as 
> windows but do with more scaleable software such as 
> linux. 
>   
    Most hardware does better with Linux if some competent
people are dealing with which functions are needed and with
how such functions should be presented, but which OS does
the iPhone run?
   
>
>
> On Thu, 2009-02-12 at 19:01 -0800, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>   
>> This from the Team Amiga mailing list.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: 	[TAML-WNT] Dell has dragged the Linux-ARM Trojan horse inside 
>> the Wintel PC
>> Date: 	Fri, 13 Feb 2009 03:51:03 +0100 (CET)
>> From: 	Odd H. Sandvik <thechronic at snipped.no>
>> Reply-To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
>> To: 	taml at lists.worldnewstrust.com
>>
>>
>>
>> "The Dell Latitude E4200 and E4300 laptop computers run a version of Linux as an "instant-on" operating system on ARM-based hardware with flash memory. This subsystem is separate to the main Windows Vista or Windows XP operating system running on an Intel Core2 Duo processor. In theory, users can do email and other light applications under Linux, Mozilla and so on, and only need switch to the Windows operating system and the Intel processor for the heavier applications."
>>
>> http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=213402554
>>
>> --
>> Odd H. Sandvik
>> _______________________________________________
>> TAML mailing list
>> TAML at lists.worldnewstrust.com
>> http://lists.worldnewstrust.com/listinfo.cgi/taml-worldnewstrust.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>>     
>
>
>   




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Feb 13 18:51:34 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 18:51:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] World of Goo ported to Linux
Message-ID: <4b5781040902131851r6cff9e3ak8cf34c503770e2ef@mail.gmail.com>

This is good news, because it is a really popular game that could help
spread Linux.

christian.einfeldt<einfeldt at digitaltip%5B%20%5Dgpoint.com%20%5B%27pin%27%20in%20gap%5D>writes
*"Lovers of both games and Free Open Source Software will be pleased to see
that the popular World of Goo has been released for
Linux<http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-linux-version-is-ready/>.
Designed by a small team of two ex-Electronic Arts developers, Kyle Gabler
and Ron Carmel, who used their entire combined
savings<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_goo>of $10,000.00 USD to
create the gooey game aimed at guiding goo balls to
salvation. The developers built their goey world with open-source
technologies such as Simple DirectMedia Layer, Open Dynamics Engine for
physics simulation, and TinyXML for configuration and animation files.
Subversion and Mantis Bug Tracker were used for work coordination. Blogger
Ken Starks points
out<http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/02/linux-gets-gooey-on-friday-13th.html>that
the release of this popular game for Linux could be a big step toward
ending the chicken-and-egg problem of a dearth of good games that run
natively under Linux."*

You can vote for this story on the Slashdot Firehose here

http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3425967

The Digg story is here:

http://digg.com/pc_games/World_of_Goo_Linux_Version_is_Ready
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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Feb 14 12:32:06 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:32:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Feb 16: SF-LUG meeting! (therefore no PYCLASS)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902141228050.21800@vellum.laroia.net>

Monday February 16th, from 6 PM to 8 PM, at the Cafe Euro, is the SF-LUG 
meeting.

Therefore, there will be no PYCLASS that day. (I'll also try to make it 
out to SF-LUG.)

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Your love life will be... interesting.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Feb 15 03:09:32 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 03:09:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] OMG, Lenny
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902150246250.3233@vellum.laroia.net>

The new version of Debian, Lenny (5.0.0), has been released! Check it out: 
http://debian.org/releases/stable/

Let's have a party. Any suggestions for where or when? If not I'll go all 
unilateral and just declare something.

But I'd love it if some of y'all said you could come on particular dates. 
To that end, I've set up a doodle.ch page with a poll:

http://doodle.com/r9v42gk8zwmvtcgh

Please drop by the poll and let it know when you'd be free. (We can figure 
out location after that.) If you have comments or want to add more 
options, by all means reply.

(Make sure you select the California time zone on that poll.)

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	What do you call a blind pre-historic animal?
A:	Diyathinkhesaurus.

Q:	What do you call a blind pre-historic animal with a dog?
A:	Diyathinkhesaurus Rex.



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 15 08:29:40 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:29:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] logwatch report
Message-ID: <15649.76802.qm@web111008.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


My logwatch program frequently reports the following (number of entries varies:)
 --------------------- Kernel Begin ------------------------ 

 
 1 Time(s): [4722550.276000] r8169: eth0: link down
 1 Time(s): [4724883.976000] r8169: eth0: link up
 1 Time(s): [4724901.352000] r8169: eth0: link down
 1 Time(s): [4724902.988000] r8169: eth0: link up
 1 Time(s): [4724905.644000] r8169: eth0: link down
 1 Time(s): [4724907.444000] r8169: eth0: link up
 
 ---------------------- Kernel End ------------------------- 

I've been told that this is the result of the network going down and coming back up. We often have times when our internet connection just doesn't work. Is this something that I should take up with the ISP or could something else be at fault? (no, no one is unplugging and replugging ethernet cables:-)
A second part to my question, directed mainly to the ThinkPython group:
the numbers in square brackets I assume represent 'unix time' and if so, is there a Python module that can help me make use of this: i.e. translate back and forth to/from human readable (read 'understandable') form?

a_kleider at yahoo.com


      




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Feb 15 10:49:07 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 10:49:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Debian 5.0 released
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902151049w19f7e28fs91e4899a4c1dfff@mail.gmail.com>

FYI: http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090214

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Feb 15 13:30:33 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 13:30:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Debian 5.0 released
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902151049w19f7e28fs91e4899a4c1dfff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902151049w19f7e28fs91e4899a4c1dfff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090215213033.GD27702@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Sameer Verma (sverma at sfsu.edu):

> FYI: http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090214

Go, Squeeze!

$ ftp ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/
Connected to ftp.debian.org.
220 ftp.debian.org FTP server
331 Please specify the password.
230 Login successful.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
200 Switching to Binary mode.
250 Directory successfully changed.
250 Directory successfully changed.
ftp> ls -al
229 Entering Extended Passive Mode (|||42344|)
150 Here comes the directory listing.
drwxr-xr-x   11 1176     1176         4096 Feb 14 14:12 .
drwxr-xr-x    8 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 21:03 ..
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 09 22:55 Debian4.0r7 -> etch
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14 22:52 Debian5.0 -> lenny
-rw-r--r--    1 1176     1176          532 Feb 14 14:06 README
drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Feb 14 12:39 etch
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:39 etch-m68k
drwxr-sr-x    5 1176     1176       110592 Feb 15 20:39 etch-proposed-updates
drwxr-sr-x   17 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:40 experimental
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Feb 14 14:02 lenny
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:39 lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            4 Feb 14 22:52 oldstable -> etch
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           21 Feb 14 22:52 oldstable-proposed-updates -> etch-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14 22:52 proposed-updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           12 Aug 04  2008 rc-buggy -> experimental
drwxr-xr-x   17 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:40 sid
drwxr-xr-x   16 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:39 squeeze
drwxr-xr-x    5 1176     1176         4096 Feb 15 20:39 squeeze-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            5 Feb 14 22:52 stable -> lenny
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           22 Feb 14 22:52 stable-proposed-updates -> lenny-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            7 Feb 14 22:52 testing -> squeeze
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176           24 Feb 14 22:52 testing-proposed-updates -> squeeze-proposed-updates
lrwxrwxrwx    1 1176     1176            3 Mar 12  2008 unstable -> sid
226 Directory send OK.
ftp>



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Sun Feb 15 15:04:46 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 15:04:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BART train departure info from the command line
In-Reply-To: <20090208203942.GA12637@mail.b79.net>
References: <20090208203942.GA12637@mail.b79.net>
Message-ID: <683785120902151504y52e7d6b7vbdd39d3d98e0a087@mail.gmail.com>

This is a good idea.  I wanted to see the results on stdout like a
normal utility instead of going in to the browser, so I used elinks
-dump.  Also I used "head" and "tail" to extract the departure times.

--- bart.orig   2009-02-15 14:47:21.000000000 -0800
+++ bart        2009-02-15 14:49:03.000000000 -0800
@@ -59,7 +59,9 @@
 [ "$1" = "19" ] && sta="19TH"   # 19th St. Oakland

 # call up bart.gov/wireless & go directly to the specified station
-elinks -no-connect 1
http://bart.gov/wireless/stationdetails.aspx?station="$sta"
+elinks -dump -no-references -no-numbering -no-connect 1 \
+ http://bart.gov/wireless/stationdetails.aspx?station="$sta" \
+ | head -n -11 | tail -n +4

 ## end of script ##



On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:39 PM, John Magolske <b79net at gmail.com> wrote:
> #!/bin/sh
> # A command line tool for checking BART trains departing a given station
> # Requires elinks as written here, but that can replaced with another
> # browser if you so desire...
> # (c)2008 John Magolske, GPL v3
> # Last edit: 2009/02/07 Sat 13:13 PST
>
> # If no station is specified go to the bart.gov/wireless pull-down list
> [ "$#" -eq 0 ] &&\
> elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx && exit 0
>
> # created easier to remember (for me) short-names for each station:
> ash="ASHB"      # Ashby
> bal="BALB"      # Balboa Park
> cas="CAST"      # Castro Valley
> bay="BAYF"      # Bay Fair
> civ="CIVC"      # Civic Center
> col="COLS"      # Coliseum/Oakland
> colma="COLM"    # Colma
> con="CONC"      # Concord
> daly="DALY"     # Daly City
> berk="DBRK"     # Downtown Berkeley
> dub="DUBL"      # Dublin/Pleasanton
> cern="DELN"     # El Cerrito del Norte
> cerp="PLZA"     # El Cerrito Plaza
> emb="EMBR"      # Embarcadero
> free="FRMT"     # Fremont
> fruit="FTVL"    # Fruitvale
> glen="GLEN"     # Glen Park
> hey="HAYW"      # Hayward
> laf="LAFY"      # Lafayette
> lake="LAKE"     # Lake Merritt
> mac="MCAR"      # MacArthur
> mill="MLBR"     # Millbrae
> mont="MONT"     # Montgomery St.
> nberk="NBRK"    # North Berkeley
> ncon="NCON"     # North Concord/Martinez
> orin="ORIN"     # Orinda
> pit="PITT"      # Pittsburg/Bay Point
> phill="PHIL"    # Pleasant Hill
> pow="POWL"      # Powell St.
> rich="RICH"     # Richmond
> rock="ROCK"     # Rockridge
> sanb="SBRN"     # San Bruno
> sfo="SFIA"      # San Francisco Int\'l Airport
> slean="SANL"    # San Leandro
> shay="SHAY"     # South Hayward
> ssf="SSAN"      # South San Francisco
> uni="UCTY"      # Union City
> wcreek="WCRK"   # Walnut Creek
> woak="WOAK"     # West Oakland
>
> eval sta="\$$1"
>
> # variables can't begin with a number, for numbered stations do it like:
> [ "$1" = "16" ] && sta="16TH"   # 16th St. Mission (SF)
> [ "$1" = "24" ] && sta="24TH"   # 24th St. Mission (SF)
> [ "$1" = "12" ] && sta="12TH"   # 12th St. Oakland City Center
> [ "$1" = "19" ] && sta="19TH"   # 19th St. Oakland
>
> # call up bart.gov/wireless & go directly to the specified station
> elinks -no-connect 1 http://bart.gov/wireless/stationdetails.aspx?station="$sta"
>
> ## end of script ##



From bliss at sfo.com  Sun Feb 15 19:50:58 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:50:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SCALE attendees on the list?
Message-ID: <4998E2A2.9060701@sfo.com>

    Check in with me if you will be there as another
member is going and wants to find booth minders
if possible.
    later
    bliss



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Feb 16 00:05:01 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 00:05:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Debian 5.0 released
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902151049w19f7e28fs91e4899a4c1dfff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902151049w19f7e28fs91e4899a4c1dfff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902160004420.10013@renaissance>

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009, Sameer Verma wrote:

> FYI: http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20090214

Yay, we finally released! Hugs all around!

*squeeze*

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Now I'm being INVOLUNTARILY shuffled closer to the CLAM DIP with the
BROKEN PLASTIC FORKS in it!!



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 01:02:02 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:02:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216010202.99873gjo042ejiqs@webmail.rawbw.com>

Once upon a time this was a sufficiently common question asked on
the BUUG list, that someone had a web page up to essentially
answer that question.

Anyway, I recall speakeasy and rawbandwidth among the recommendations
at the time.  I use rawbandwidth and have been quite pleased with the
service.  Probably not the cheapest, but damn solid service, and very
cluefully run.

If the (prospective) ISP customer needs lots of hand-holding and
technical assistance, ... as opposed to being rather to quite
skilled with Linux (and/or Unix) - at least insofar as network
setup connecting with ISP and troubleshooting such, ... well, there
may be a lot of variation in what ISP might be best "fit" for
such an ISP customer.  I.e. best ISP for newbie running Linux
and best ISP for Linux, may be quite distinct questions with quite
distinct answers.

Oh, ... and you might want to send to lists just in plain text.
That'll save a lot of redundant cruft from piling up on the
lists and archives/servers thereof.

> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:45 -0800
> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<4b5781040901272101w3bca3764me522e8cb6295c6cb at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?  I am
> helping someone with a Xubuntu box.  He is a relatively simple end user.
>
> Thanks in advance.
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 01:09:03 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 01:09:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216010903.1243584o3f4v6xc8@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:45 -0800
> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>
> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?

P.S., you might consider asking on a more geographically
relevant/specific list, e.g.:
http://www.buug.org/
http://www.weak.org/mailman/listinfo/buug




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 02:02:45 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:02:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] gecos (interesting artifact re system mail)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1233604804.21156.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.9.1233604804.21156.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216020245.7081615oe7g9z7k0@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:35:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] interesting artifact re system mail
> 	configuration
> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902020934380.7868 at vellum.laroia.net>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
> On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, jim wrote:
>
> I think that our friend Rick has a page about this somewhere. (-:
>>   the mail client picked up the hostname from
>> the comment field in /etc/passwd for the
>> current user. why i'd put the hostname (sill)
>> there escapes me, but i did.
>
> That's pretty weird of you! (-;
>
> Anyway, "chfn" is the tool to avoid hacking /etc/passwd by hand.

Well, it's not "really" a comment field ;-) ... it's a fair bit
more structured than that.  It's really a field, that optionally
contains additionally sub-fields separated by comma (,).
The first sub-field (or the whole thing, if no commas
present in that field) - is name, or full name - that's where mail
programs and the like get information on the name to associate
with the login name, and they'll typically associate that with the
email address when sending, using the name or full name part as
comment data, e.g. typically formated as:
Name <login at FQDN_of_host>
or:
login at FQDN_of_host (Name)
Anyway, precise intrepretation of the sub-fields may vary a bit.
I seem to most have seen something like:
(Full) Name
Office (location)
work phone
home phone
... but these do vary.

references/excerpts:
chfn(1)
finger(1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecos_field




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 02:33:47 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 02:33:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Splunk> Employment connection
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1233864004.31789.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1233864004.31789.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216023347.14411d3tm9x9q6m8@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:20:39 -0800 (PST)
> From: vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>
>
> Does anybody on the list no anybody who works at Splunk>? They are  
> looking for a Web Editor that fits my skills precisely. Thanks to  
> anyone who views this posting. Vince

Perhaps this lead might help.

BALUG did have a talk/presentation from Splunk in 2006:
http://lists.balug.org/pipermail/balug-announce-balug.org/2006-October/000077.html




From amittri13 at gmail.com  Mon Feb 16 07:21:31 2009
From: amittri13 at gmail.com (amit tripathi)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 07:21:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to unsubscribe from the group
Message-ID: <e72573870902160721l5341c09dyeb7633f4903fd273@mail.gmail.com>


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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 08:31:04 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:31:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: REMINDER - TOMORROW!: Tu 2009-02-17 Eddy Mulyono
	on: ".rpm	.deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!" - the state of packaging
	across Linux OSes
Message-ID: <20090216083104.19556zs5ihelesg0@webmail.rawbw.com>

Reminder - this meeting and event is TOMORROW!
If you're intending to come, and haven't already RSVPed, please RSVP
by noon today, if you can (we still appreciate later RSVPs, but
RSVPs are most valuable to our planning if we get them by
sufficiently early the day before our meeting - thanks).

BALUG: Tu 2009-02-17 Eddy Mulyono on: ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!" -
the state of packaging across Linux OSes

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-02-17
Eddy Mulyono on: ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!" - the state of packaging
across Linux OSes

In ".rpm .deb .ebuild .tgz OMG!", Eddy will be looking at the current
state of packaging across distros (Ubuntu, Gentoo, rPath), lessons
learned, and what's next.

Eddy Mulyon: opythonista, djangonaut, ubuntero, catholic choir-boy

Please RSVP if you're planning to come (see further below).

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

      rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

      6:30pm
      Tuesday, February 17th, 2009 2009-02-17

      Four Seas Restaurant
      731 Grant Ave.
      San Francisco, CA 94108
      Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

http://www.balug.org/

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 08:38:58 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:38:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to unsubscribe from the group
Message-ID: <20090216083857.81327l430k6pgpog@webmail.rawbw.com>

Hint:
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
(it's on practically every email that is sent out to the list)
Look for the string "unsubscribe" on that URL.




From michael at openmoko.org  Mon Feb 16 08:45:52 2009
From: michael at openmoko.org (Michael Shiloh)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:45:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?
In-Reply-To: <20090216010903.1243584o3f4v6xc8@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090216010903.1243584o3f4v6xc8@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <49999840.3010406@openmoko.org>

Michael Paoli wrote:
>> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:45 -0800
>> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
>> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>>
>> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?

Not Berkeley proper but I have done a fair bit of research and am 
extremely impressed by sonic.net around Petaluma or Santa Rosa. They 
use, and are extremely supportive of, Linux.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 09:13:52 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:13:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BART train departure info from the command line
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1234209604.462.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1234209604.462.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216091352.79841eryq2dxus4g@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2009 12:39:43 -0800
> From: John Magolske <b79net at gmail.com>
>
> At http://bart.gov/wireless/eta.aspx you can select a station from a
> pull-down list to check train departures. But I wanted a way to go
> straight to a given station by specifying it on the command-line. For
> example, `bart 16` or `bart sfo` to display real-time departures from
> the 16th/Mission or SF Airport stations respectively. I thought I'd
> pass it along here for any BART traveling command-line aficionados.
>
> The browser used (elinks) could be replaced with another. The other
> text-mode browser I'm familiar with is w3m, but it doesn't seem to do
> the auto-update of departure times. Something like Firefox would work,
> but I wanted everything to happen in one happy little tty.
>
> Kinda makes me want to jump on a train right now! Oh, wait...I do
> that Mon-Fri for work...hmmm, maybe better to just kick back & enjoy
> the rest of the weekend.

Hey, it can certainly be done in a single line of perl (for sufficiently
long line).  Python will probably force one to use more than one
line however.  ;-)

They've also got APIs - may be more useful to access them more directly.
references:
perl(1)
http://www.bart.gov/schedules/developers/etas.aspx
http://www.bart.gov/dev/eta/bart_eta.xml
http://www.cpan.org/




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 09:29:53 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:29:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] the real free software...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1234296007.26957.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1234296007.26957.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216092953.1802122qs9tpcxox@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:57:00 -0800
> From: Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu>
>
> We are going to have a visitor on campus today. From Microsoft. His
> job is "...to work with the brightest minds at schools throughout
> Northern California to make sure they have what they need to succeed
> with technology". In honor of this visit and the "free software" he's
> going to raffle off, I've set up my own raffle page. Take a look!
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/608

Might want to tweak those descriptions a slight bit.
Sure, it's about freedom - and typically also free as in
beer, ... but typically not quite
"you can do whatever you want to do with it"
... e.g., such as GNU licensed software - can't
typically change it, complile it, sell the binaries
thus created and not make the source code (including the
changes) available for free.  GNU is more about preserving
the freedom.  On the other hand, BSD type licenses
typically come a bit closer to
"whatever you want to do with it" (e.g. one typically
could sell binaries as noted above, without giving away
the source) ... but there are likely still some limitations.

Reference to the Open Source Initiative's Open Source Definition
may be useful - it would likely apply to most or all of the
noted software:
http://opensource.org/docs/osd




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Feb 16 09:40:44 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:40:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to unsubscribe from the group
In-Reply-To: <20090216083857.81327l430k6pgpog@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090216083857.81327l430k6pgpog@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090216174043.GA19851@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Hint:
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> (it's on practically every email that is sent out to the list)
> Look for the string "unsubscribe" on that URL.

He must have had to really work to get around Mailman's administrivia
filter, which normally prevents such queries from bothering entire
mailing lists' memberships -- and encourages would-be senders to,
instead, more appropriately take up their problem with the listadmin.
Unfortunately, no regex is perfect.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 09:50:39 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:50:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] <snipped job posting stuff>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1234468804.4870.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1234468804.4870.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216095039.13233mdbqp85lce8@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:43:58 -0800
> From: Mark Apton <mapton at AA-Technical-Recruiter.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] <snipped job posting stuff>
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com

<snipped job posting stuff>

One would best be advised to follow policy:
"
No direct Job Postings
Send your job postings to jim at well.com and he will put them on the  
SF-LUG job posting page and send a summary to the email list. Job  
postings should be up to five paragraphs in ASCII format. The first  
paragraph should specify the job title, city location, and salary  
range. Subsequent paragraphs should detail job requirements, applicant  
skills, company policies and benefits, and contact information. Please  
no hyperbole. Thanks for cooperation.
"

Some of us have quite long memories :-) (and The Internet tends to
"remember" too) of recruiters and their firms, etc.,
and how well they do - or don't do - by the community, their
candidates, clients, and prospective candidates/clients, etc.

references/excerpts:

$ ls -on recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc. RCS/rec*
-r--------  1 1003 79530 Nov 11  2007  
RCS/recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc.,v
-rw-------  1 1003 63691 Feb 16 00:08 recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc.
$ fgrep -i 'suck
> spam
> plague
> bad
> horrible
> boiler room' recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc. | wc -l
21
$ fgrep -i 'good
> great
> excellent
> recommend' recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc. | wc -l
6
$

http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Feb 16 10:20:43 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:20:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] unix time: translate to/from human readable
	('understandable')	form?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1234728005.958.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1234728005.958.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090216102043.18381aohtjkkjdes@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 08:29:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com>
>
> My logwatch program frequently reports the following (number of  
> entries varies:)
>  --------------------- Kernel Begin ------------------------
>  1 Time(s): [4722550.276000] r8169: eth0: link down
>  1 Time(s): [4724883.976000] r8169: eth0: link up
>  1 Time(s): [4724901.352000] r8169: eth0: link down
>  1 Time(s): [4724902.988000] r8169: eth0: link up
>  1 Time(s): [4724905.644000] r8169: eth0: link down
>  1 Time(s): [4724907.444000] r8169: eth0: link up
>  ---------------------- Kernel End -------------------------
>
> A second part to my question, directed mainly to the ThinkPython group:
> the numbers in square brackets I assume represent 'unix time' and if  
> so, is there a Python module that can help me make use of this: i.e.  
> translate back and forth to/from human readable (read  
> 'understandable') form?

Those don't look to be 'unix time'[1] format ... particularly easy to
note/recognize, since we quite recently passed[2]
1234567890.

Conversions, ... I'd typically grab perl(1) ...
been there, done that[3] ...
or use some of the capabilities of GNU's date(1)[4],
... or perhaps in C if I was really going to be pounding
away at it.  There's also likely a Python answer
somewhere back on that earlier thread[5].

references/excerpts:
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
2. http://www.1234567890day.com/
3. http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2008q4/005814.html
4. http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/date-invocation.html
5. :
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2008q4/date.html
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2008q4/005749.html
et. seq.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Feb 16 10:31:42 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:31:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] <snipped job posting stuff>
In-Reply-To: <20090216095039.13233mdbqp85lce8@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.3.1234468804.4870.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090216095039.13233mdbqp85lce8@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090216183142.GB19851@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:43:58 -0800
> > From: Mark Apton <mapton at AA-Technical-Recruiter.com>
> > Subject: [sf-lug] <snipped job posting stuff>
> > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> 
> <snipped job posting stuff>
> 
> One would best be advised to follow policy:

Indeed, Mr. Apton.  You had to look at
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug in order to join this
list, and it has "No direct Job Postings" in BOLD TYPE right near the top.  

-- 
Cheers,              Crypto lets someone say "Hi! I absolutely definitely have 
Rick Moen            a name somewhat like the name of a large familiar 
rick at linuxmafia.com  organization, and I'd like to steal your data!" and lots 
McQ!  (4x80)         of users will say "OK, fine, whatever."    -- John Levine 



From jim at well.com  Mon Feb 16 11:14:46 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:14:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets tonight
Message-ID: <1234811686.6525.203.camel@jim-laptop>


   per asheesh's email of friday, just a reminder: 
   sf-lug meets tonight at cafe euro on geary at 26th 
ave in san francisco from 6 PM to 8 PM or so. there's 
the usual free post-meeting transport to the tenderloin 
and mission and 16 or thereabouts. 





From jim at well.com  Tue Feb 17 08:43:09 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:43:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Senior LAMP Developer, San Francisco, CA,
	$90K to	$130K
Message-ID: <1234888989.6525.315.camel@jim-laptop>


[JOB] Senior LAMP Developer, San Francisco, CA, $90K to $130K 

My client needs a full time, on-site, salaried Senior LAMP Developer to
build a web based Customer Relations Management (CRM) application from
inception to production and to integrate closely within their existing
website framework. The application will be responsible for managing
transactions between our internal staff, external agents and website end
users/customers. The application will integrate with their existing
website framework in order to allow customers, agents and internal staff
to communicate both privately and publicly through the website.

This position requires someone with experience in all components of the
development process from inception to production and this role will
require intensive work on developing the database, back-end framework
and front-end UI implementations based on the business team's
requirements and UI designs. 

Required Skills/Experience: 
* Previous CRM-based (or closely related) development - 3+ years 
* PHP - 5+ years 
* MySQL - 5+ years 
* XHTML/CSS - 3+ years 
* Linux/Apache (administration, configuration, optimization) 

Desired Skills/Experience: 
* JavaScript 
* AJAX 
* Photoshop 
* XML 

To be considered, please submit your resume and salary requirements to
bg @ capitalmarketsp.com 

Thank you, 

Beau Gould 
Executive Advisor 
Capital Markets Placement 
www.cmp.jobs 
bg at capitalmarketsp.com 





From jim at well.com  Tue Feb 17 14:37:35 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:37:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SCALE
Message-ID: <1234910255.6525.355.camel@jim-laptop>


   it seems SCALE (southern california linux expo) 
http://scale7x.socallinuxexpo.org/ 

   has a few booths that could use additional help. 
if you are going or on the line, put a note on your 
favorite lug list (one that you belong to) and 
offer your help (and perhaps contact info). 

   i wish i were going: 
http://scale7x.socallinuxexpo.org/ 






From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 17:09:44 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:09:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Requesting volunteer lead for the Tenderloin tech day
Message-ID: <4b5781040902171709o161ed905g1c293c2f6289a3df@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I would like to ask if there is anyone on the list who would like to take on
the role of interfacing with the St. Anthony's Tenderloin Tech Day.  This
event is held only about 3 x per year.  Tasks involved include the
following:

1. Set up 4 Linux machines the afternoon before the event.  The event is
held on Saturdays from 9 am to 3 pm.  The set up happens from about 2 pm to
4 pm the day before.  Set up must be finished by 4:30 the day before, as the
staff leaves the building promptly at 5 pm and they need shut down time of
30 mins before the end of the day.

2. Participation in about 4 conference calls per year, each lasting about 45
mins to discuss the nitty gritty of the set-up.

3. Attending the event 3x per year, at which you will be fed.

4. Posting about 6 notices per year to this list to inform people of the
event and to ask for volunteers.

St. Anthony's is one of the premier charities in San Francisco, and this
event does a great job of introducing Linux to a community of impoverished
people who really need the help.  Here is a video showing what was
accomplished with the first Tenderloin Tech day.  Notice the prominent
placement of Ubuntu logos and the extensive discussion of Ubuntu given
throughout the video.  This was a hugely successful outreach:

http://news.cnet.com/Tenderloin-Tech-Day/1606-2_3-6223419.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news

The reason that I am asking to be replaced as the lead is that we have done
most of the hard work already.  We have gotten the machines stored on site
at St. Anthony.  There is very little hauling to be done (bringing the
machines up from the basement is all, and you will get help with that).
There is very little outreach to be done -- St. Anthonys now sees the value
in having a Linux presence.  All we really need is someone to interact with
the organizers and post notices to this list.

Thanks either way for considering my request.

-- 
Christian Einfeldt,
Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 20:13:46 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:13:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
Message-ID: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I am going to be helping an elderly guy upgrade from Gutsy to Intrepid.  He
probably uses Firefox to save his bookmarks, as opposed to cloud bookmarks
like Google bookmarks, so I will need to save the data in at least his
Firefox config files.  Does anyone have any warnings of traps for the unwary
in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?

I am hoping to save the config files and wipe the hard drive, simply because
I think that a fresh install is always nice and crispy clean.

Thanks in advance.
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Feb 17 21:00:17 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:00:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> I am going to be helping an elderly guy upgrade from Gutsy to Intrepid.  He
> probably uses Firefox to save his bookmarks, as opposed to cloud bookmarks
> like Google bookmarks, so I will need to save the data in at least his
> Firefox config files.  Does anyone have any warnings of traps for the unwary
> in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?

Firefox's bookmarks file has a (very) stable-over-time data format,
fortunately.  You'll find it as ~/.mozilla/firefox/[random
string]/bookmarks.html .  [random string] is generated at the time
Firefox creates the user profile.  It's a kind of trivial security hack.

The rest of the Firefox user config seems to be stored in a series of
sqlite files in the same directory.  I figure that'll probably upgrade
cleanly from Firefox 2.x to 3.0.x, but am less certain than with the
bookmarks file.

Firefox extensions you might consider adding for _some_ Firefox
installations (but you decide whether they're right for your friend):
User Agent Switcher, BugMeNot, Firebug, and NoScript, as mentioned here:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#linuxbrowser
(Page has hyperlinks for each item cited.)

Well, not so much Firebug except for people who debug pages and/or
sites, but the rest have broad appeal.

Just to stress, despite the name, NoScript _does_ permit you to run
Javascript/Flash/etc., but just lets _you_ decide where and when.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 21:07:39 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:07:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG mentioned in GNOME director's blog
Message-ID: <4b5781040902172107r5de0609bk6536bf7b578524af@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

GNOME Executive Director Stormy Peters has blogged about our efforts with
the Western Addition middle school Xubuntu lab project.  The SF-LUG mailing
list is mentioned.

Thanks to all of you for helping with this school project.  It is making a
difference not only for the kids who are using this individual lab, but as a
small example to others as to what is possible with using Free Open Source
Software to lessen the digital divide just a wee bit.

http://www.kidsoncomputers.org/interview-with-christian-einfeldt
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 21:10:06 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:10:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040902172110t130f723cldab881af550522e7@mail.gmail.com>

Thx for your tips, Rick!
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From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Tue Feb 17 21:22:59 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:22:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120902172122s2ada24d5oadc527142a821d9a@mail.gmail.com>

2009/2/17 Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>:
> I will need to save the data in at least his
> Firefox config files.  Does anyone have any warnings of traps for the unwary
> in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?

Personally I have never had any problems upgrading Ubuntu.  My feeling
is, a lot of people got burned in the past by bad upgrades (Fedora
3->4 comes to mind) but that distro maintainers are pretty
conscientious about this now.

The only issue is that it can take a few hours to download & configure
all the packages.  The downloading can be done unattended but
unfortunately the configuration tends to require a lot of unnecessary
interaction.  That is, you keep getting prompted "Do you want to
replace this file (Y/n)?" (in the Update Manager GUI).  There should
be a policy that if a file belongs to an old package, and hasn't been
modified, it's OK to overwrite it with the new version.

If you do a fresh install, you may be surprised how many things are
"missing" from the desktop which you forgot you had
installed/configured.  But if the only thing you've modified is
Firefox bookmarks, it probably doesn't matter much either way.



From jim at well.com  Wed Feb 18 08:57:17 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 08:57:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?
In-Reply-To: <49999840.3010406@openmoko.org>
References: <mailman.71.1233121679.27644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090216010903.1243584o3f4v6xc8@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<49999840.3010406@openmoko.org>
Message-ID: <1234976237.6525.381.camel@jim-laptop>


sonic.net claims to be able to provide service 
to offer DSL "throughout California" but with 
a restriction to AT&T only for ADSL. 


On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 08:45 -0800, Michael Shiloh wrote:
> Michael Paoli wrote:
> >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 21:01:45 -0800
> >> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: [sf-lug] ISPs that are good for Linux
> >> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> >>
> >> Any recommendations as to which ISPs are good for Linux in Berkeley?
> 
> Not Berkeley proper but I have done a fair bit of research and am 
> extremely impressed by sonic.net around Petaluma or Santa Rosa. They 
> use, and are extremely supportive of, Linux.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From slash5toaster at gmail.com  Wed Feb 18 15:15:11 2009
From: slash5toaster at gmail.com (Clyde Jones)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:15:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] <snipped job posting stuff>
In-Reply-To: <20090216095039.13233mdbqp85lce8@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.3.1234468804.4870.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090216095039.13233mdbqp85lce8@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <294686ad0902181515g1b69c2a8v4c18baaee26a07fc@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 09:50, Michael Paoli
<Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:


Got a few friends looking :
 Can you

$ fgrep -i 'good great excellent recommend'
recruiters_agencies_URLs_resources_etc. |  mail
slash5toaster at gmail.com -s "good head hunters"


TIA
-- 
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With
our thoughts, we make the world.
-Buddha



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Wed Feb 18 20:04:11 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 20:04:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC internships for 2009
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902182004qc716040pa1e767f52db444d7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if these must be listed as "job postings", but I'm
passing this along. Information about OLPC internships for 2009 is
posted at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Internships Specific listings are
supposed to be up next week. Some of you may find these useful.

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From bill at wards.net  Thu Feb 19 12:00:08 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:00:08 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 02/26/2009
Message-ID: <E1LaF44-0008Nl-1F@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:

   NOTE NEW LOCATION! Our usual meeting place is not available on this date,
   but we will return to Qualys in March. Allow extra time to find the new
   location and for traffic delays. See Driving Directions or Transit
   Directions for more information.

   +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |Date:    |Thursday, February 26th, 2009                              |
   |---------+-----------------------------------------------------------|
   |Time:    |6:00 - 8:00 PM                                             |
   |---------+-----------------------------------------------------------|
   |         |Open Street Map / Cloudmade                                |
   |Location:|1370 Willow Rd (2nd Floor)                                 |
   |         |Menlo Park, CA 94025                                       |
   |---------+-----------------------------------------------------------|
   |RSVP:    |Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=48029661973|
   |         |or mail rsvp at penlug.org                                    |
   +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

   PLEASE LET US KNOW IF YOU ARE COMING! Because of the new location, which
   is smaller than our usual room, we want to have an accurate idea of how
   many people are coming. Send email to rsvp at penlug.org or use the Facebook
   address above to RSVP. Thank you!

   Agenda:

     * 6:00 PM Free pizza arrives
     * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes
     * 6:30 PM Presentation begins
     * 8:00 PM Meeting ends

  OpenStreetMap, an open source map of the world

   OpenStreetMap is an open source project to collaboratively map the entire
   world. OpenStreetMap is both free and Free, allowing open access to
   geodata. There are over 70,000 participants in OpenStreetMap worldwide,
   and community members are using the data to create a variety maps, such as
   opencyclemap.org and openrouteservice.org. We are working to increase
   participation here in the US. This presentation will focus on the past,
   present and future of geodata, OpenStreetMap goals, as well how people can
   get involved.

  Sarah Manley

   Sarah is the community ambassador for OpenStreetMap in the Bay Area of
   California. As community ambassador she works to engage a wider range of
   participants in OpenStreetMap by organizing mapping parties, speaking
   engagements and collaborations with community groups. She is also working
   to develop a curriculum that utilizes OpenStreetMap*s data and tools.

RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
      http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1300+Island+Drive,+Redwood+City,+CA
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsQualys
      http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsQualys

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 17:07:59 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:07:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Lessig crowd-sources Shep Fairey's legal case
Message-ID: <4b5781040902191707q3bb1db27ofa59b788e0442c02@mail.gmail.com>

Slightly off-topic, but close enough.  Lessig has sought the assistance of
the masses in beating the AP's claim that Shepard Fairey should be liable
for fat dollars because of his use of Mannie Garcia's picture of
then-Senator Obama.  If you so desire, you can vote on it in the Firehose
here:

http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3493607

christian.einfeldt <einfeldtNO at SPAMdigitaltippingpoint.com> writes *"Stanford
law professor Larry Lessig has issued a call to the
masses<http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/02/crowd-sourcing_a_fair_use_case.html>for
help in assisting Shepard Fairey in Fairey's legal case against the
Associated Press arising out of the dispute over Fairey's famous poster
depicting Obama's upturned, thoughtful face, a poster that in the minds of
many defined the Obama 2008 presidential campaign. Lessig, writing on behalf
of Stanford Law School's Center for Internet and Society (CIS), says that
the CIS team would like help finding images similar to that of Mannie
Garcia's preceding
photograph<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U7EeVLR_r8A/SZuxqsiCnJI/AAAAAAAAAdU/5pHRaqW-M4Y/s1600-h/clooneyobama.jpg>of
then-Senator Obama appearing with George Clooney during the campaign.
Although Lessig is holding his cards close to his vest as to why similar
photos are being sought, commentators on Lessig's blog seem to
think<http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/02/crowd-sourcing_a_fair_use_case.html#comment-69770>that
as more similar photos can be found, it becomes less likely that
Fairey's poster alone had any impact on the market for the Mannie Garcia's
photo; in other words, defending Fairey by spreading the "blame". But the
more entertaining question might be: can the Slashdot effect alter the
outcome of this case?"*
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 19 17:10:03 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:10:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Lessig crowd-sources Shep Fairey's legal case
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902191707q3bb1db27ofa59b788e0442c02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902191707q3bb1db27ofa59b788e0442c02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040902191710h73d6038ch2265e0c84b5d78bf@mail.gmail.com>

oops,

On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> Slightly off-topic, but close enough.  Lessig has sought the assistance of
> the masses


forgot the link to the original story:

http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/02/crowd-sourcing_a_fair_use_case.html


> in beating the AP's claim that Shepard Fairey should be liable for fat
> dollars because of his use of Mannie Garcia's picture of then-Senator
> Obama.  If you so desire, you can vote on it in the Firehose here:
>
> http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3493607
>
> christian.einfeldt <einfeldtNO at SPAMdigitaltippingpoint.com> writes *"Stanford
> law professor Larry Lessig has issued a call to the masses<http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/02/crowd-sourcing_a_fair_use_case.html>for help in assisting Shepard Fairey in Fairey's legal case against the
> Associated Press arising out of the dispute over Fairey's famous poster
> depicting Obama's upturned, thoughtful face, a poster that in the minds of
> many defined the Obama 2008 presidential campaign. Lessig, writing on behalf
> of Stanford Law School's Center for Internet and Society (CIS), says that
> the CIS team would like help finding images similar to that of Mannie
> Garcia's preceding photograph<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U7EeVLR_r8A/SZuxqsiCnJI/AAAAAAAAAdU/5pHRaqW-M4Y/s1600-h/clooneyobama.jpg>of then-Senator Obama appearing with George Clooney during the campaign.
> Although Lessig is holding his cards close to his vest as to why similar
> photos are being sought, commentators on Lessig's blog seem to think<http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/02/crowd-sourcing_a_fair_use_case.html#comment-69770>that as more similar photos can be found, it becomes less likely that
> Fairey's poster alone had any impact on the market for the Mannie Garcia's
> photo; in other words, defending Fairey by spreading the "blame". But the
> more entertaining question might be: can the Slashdot effect alter the
> outcome of this case?"*
>
>
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From guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com  Fri Feb 20 05:58:37 2009
From: guacamolepandemonium at gmail.com (Will McGinnis)
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 05:58:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] R (programming language) Bay Area Users Group
Message-ID: <f85408580902200558wa75adbdie4b740d5b5fa74d6@mail.gmail.com>

For those into statistics, data mining, and all that fun stuff R is
used in, there's a R Bay Area users group. The next meetup is March
11th in SF.

http://www.meetup.com/R-Users
http://dataspora.com/blog/predictive-analytics-using-r/

I discovered it through a reddit article linking to that blog post.
That Predictive Analytics World sounds pretty wild, I wish i was deep
into this a while ago.



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Sat Feb 21 20:29:32 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:29:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <683785120902172122s2ada24d5oadc527142a821d9a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120902172122s2ada24d5oadc527142a821d9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120902212029i4f0f923dub9b88036b025fe40@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Jesse Zbikowski
<embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2009/2/17 Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>:
>> Does anyone have any warnings of traps for the unwary
>> in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?
>
> The only issue is that it can take a few hours to download & configure
> all the packages.

I just wanted to pass on one more tip on upgrading Ubuntu with the
Update Manager GUI.  It's a long and CPU-intensive process and thus
may nearly immobilize your computer for some time.  If that's the only
computer you have, you might want to run Update Manager from the shell
so you have job control.  That is, instead of launching it from the
Start Menu you can

jesse at counterpoint:~$ gksu "update-manager -d" &
[1] 3950

Then if you need to run something else before the ginormous update is
finished you can foreground the job and put it to sleep with Ctrl-Z.

fg %1
^Z

I don't know if this is really recommended but no problems so far.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Feb 21 20:41:20 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:41:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <683785120902212029i4f0f923dub9b88036b025fe40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120902172122s2ada24d5oadc527142a821d9a@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120902212029i4f0f923dub9b88036b025fe40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040902212041w43a74a26m73d1c71ebd54e383@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Jesse Zbikowski <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com
> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM, Jesse Zbikowski
> <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2009/2/17 Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>:
> >> Does anyone have any warnings of traps for the unwary
> >> in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?
> >
> > The only issue is that it can take a few hours to download & configure
> > all the packages.
>
> I just wanted to pass on one more tip on upgrading Ubuntu with the
> Update Manager GUI.  It's a long and CPU-intensive process


We did a fresh install today with one of the senior members of our
community.  I went over to his house, and copied all of the files that he
needed.  Then we just did a fresh install from CD.  That seems to have
worked fairly well.  I like doing fresh installs, because it means that all
of the different little config files or other gooey sticky little problems
are blown away and you can keep your data and away you go with a brand new
system.

Thanks to all who replied with tips for this thread.

c u
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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Feb 22 16:37:41 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:37:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Feb 23 6:30 PM: Chapter 14
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902221632490.16448@vellum.laroia.net>

(Thanks to the new folks who joined a few weeks ago; it's great to have 
new people around!)

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Feb 23 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 14

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book015.html

This week, we look at FILES! You can read data from them, and you can even 
write to them. WOW!

We also learn about exceptions, somewhat-efficient databases, pipes, and 
pickling. Pickling and pipes are two of my favorite things.

Exercise 7.3 in the chapter is fairly difficult, be warned! But the 
solution is very interesting.

IF YOU ARE NEW

Remember that the point of the class is to help you answer questions you 
have. To that end, *read Chapter 14* so that you can make sense of the 
general class discussion.

In addition, work forward in the text starting with chapter 1. I *urge* 
you to send me your exercises for any chapters; I can provide good 
feedback. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 14 so that we can have a 
coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about 
earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to 
programming, and I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun 
conversation with people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of 
whom (hopefully all!) have done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on the 
sf-lug list (since that's where this all started).

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You single-handedly fought your way into this hopeless mess.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sun Feb 22 18:00:18 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 18:00:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Feb 23 6:30 PM: Chapter 14
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902221632490.16448@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902221632490.16448@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902221759520.8049@vellum.laroia.net>

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009, Asheesh Laroia wrote:

> This week, we look at FILES! You can read data from them, and you can 
> even write to them. WOW!
>
> We also learn about exceptions, somewhat-efficient databases, pipes, and 
> pickling. Pickling and pipes are two of my favorite things.

(Sorry for the noise, but I can't contain my excitement:)

Plus we do some screen scraping!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Tell the truth or trump--but get the trick.
 		-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar"



From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 23 11:59:52 2009
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:59:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] QA guy looking for work
Message-ID: <355823.53339.qm@web53508.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

My friend is a good QA guy and was laid off from Sony America awhile ago now. I figured I would post here if anyone needs a QA guy that really good. He is currently in school finishing his BA with a good grade point average in Business Administration. Please fell free to forward to anyone you might know. This includes head hunters, etc. Let me know if you need a WORD version and I can send that along. Below is a text version I pasted into this email. Any help from the list if greatly appreciated.
-------------------------
t0md


Edward J. Toomey
edwardjtoomey at hotmail.com
Mobile phone: (650) 219-1918 

OBJECTIVE
To join an organization that will fully utilize my extensive project management experience, background and skills to produce quality results.???? 

WORK EXPERIENCE
Associate Producer
Blue Shift Inc. ? Mountain View, California
2006 - January, 2009
Responsibilities:
???? Managed project plans, allocated tasks to project team members while monitoring quality assurance and working within established timelines and budgetary controls.
???? Tracked and monitored approximately $1 million in project hardware and software and assisted with troubleshooting system errors.? 
???? Through initiative, assumed additional responsibility for other projects, thereby cutting the need for an additional Associate Producer position and allowing an extra engineering hire within the budget.
???? Generated reports and summaries in a variety of formats and levels of granularity (depending on audience) and organized, led and summarized action items from daily meetings with assigned publisher.
???? Reviewed and edited documentation and technical design documents.? Assigned and tracked tasks emerging from these documents throughout the project.
???? Supported team members by removing gating issues and dependencies, ensuring proper workload distribution and tracking integration of changes and fixes into the build.
???? Created comprehensive ?How to? documentation to ensure consistency and proper use of systems and equipment by staff.?? 
???? Supported a positive and productive work environment through frequent and open communication.
???? Key contact / organizational representative at industry conference with an international audience.

Quality Assurance Lead? 
Sony Computer Entertainment of America (SCEA) - Foster City, California
2001- 2006
Responsibilities: 
???? Managed 30 contract employees in a team atmosphere to ensure proper test planning and project execution within established timeline and budget.? 
???? Tracked and monitored problem reports and change requests along with seeing them through to resolution.? 
???? Worked collaboratively with key stakeholders, vendors and others to ensure all respective agendas were incorporated and deliverables were met.
???? Interviewed new hires, including conducting routine personnel evaluations of those I supervised.? Trained, mentored and coached employees as needed.??? ? M<
???? Assisted Quality Assurance management with implementing increased efficiency and productivity procedures and standards for the department. 
???? Department representative at several industry conferences with an international audience as well attendance at several industry standard workshops and seminars.

EDUCATION
Notre Dame de Namur University, Belmont, California? 
2007 ? Current;?? GPA: 3.75
Bachelor of Science in Business Administration with an emphasis on Technology Management

Academy of Art San Francisco, San Francisco, California
1999 - 2000
Classes were focused on the fundamentals of digital design and human form.? Coursework included:
???? Digital Design? -? Digital Imaging? -? Figure Drawing? -? Figure Modeling? -? Color and Design

TECHNICAL SKILLS / WORKING KNOWLEDGE
???? Microsoft Project 
???? Adobe Photoshop/Illustrator
???? File Maker Pro 5 and Dev track bug databases





      
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Feb 23 17:28:32 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:28:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux making big headway on Dell Inspiron Mini 9s netbooks
Message-ID: <4b5781040902231728j2adebc57v7d2cdb725fdddc2@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-dell-inspiron-mini-9s-sold-run-linux

*"According to an article in Laptop Magazine on-line, one-third of Dell
Inspiron Mini 9s
netbooks<http://blog.laptopmag.com/one-third-of-dell-inspiron-mini-9s-sold-run-linux>are
sold with the Ubuntu Linux operating system. Dell senior product
manager
John New attributed the sales volume to the lower price point of the Ubuntu
Linux machines. And the return rate of the Ubuntu Linux machines is
approximately equal to that of comparable netbooks sold with Microsoft
Windows XP. Dell spokesperson Jay Pinkert attriutes the low return rate to
Dell's good communications with its customers, saying 'We have done a very
good job explaining to folks what Linux is.'"*

http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3532283
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From jim at well.com  Tue Feb 24 08:56:26 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:56:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] Linux SysAdm in Mountain View $85K or higher
Message-ID: <1235494586.7447.7.camel@jim-laptop>


Title: Senior Systems Administrator
Company: TrialPay (http://www.trialpay.com)
City: Mountain View, CA
Salary: $85k or higher, based on experience (market rate)
Benefits: Excellent benefits, including medical, dental, vision, life,
401k, and good vacation time
Contact: Mark Alfaro mark.alfaro [AT] trialpay [DOT] com

Company Overview:
E-Commerce Payment Platform TrialPay Shines in a Dark Economy 
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2009/1/prweb1908074.htm
TrialPay is a quickly growing, stable Internet startup company that
offers a unique alternative e-commerce payment solution.  We are
endorsed and promoted by thousands of premier merchants and advertisers
across the world.  And customers love what we do. TrialPay's sustainable
business model, leadership position in the market, and a healthy revenue
stream have allowed us to build a strong business. Leading venture
capital firms and individuals back TrialPay, including: Index Ventures
(Skype, Joost, last.fm, etc), Battery Ventures (Akamai, InfoSpace,
MetroPCS), Bob Pittman (former AOL president and founder of MTV), Ron
Conway, and executives from several top Internet companies.

Job Overview:
We are looking for a Senior Linux Systems Administrator to manage our
Web production environment, as well as maintain our development and
corporate environments. We have a rapidly growing infrastructure, so we
need to add someone to our small team that is familiar with building and
managing high availability, fault tolerant, highly scalable systems.
While systems administration is the focus of this role, there are also
some basic MySQL and networking tasks involved, as well.

Responsibilities: 
?	Deploy and maintain servers- as well as switches and routers- to
expand TrialPay's infrastructure in a highly available manner. 
?	Design and implement the security architecture
?	Tune and optimize our web services for performance
?	Tune and optimize MySQL databases for redundancy and data
availability/backups 
?	Administrate our internal and external monitoring system
?	Configure and manage the open-source tools that we utilize 
?	Assist in the release/push process 
?	Help architect and implement new data centers

Requirements:
?	Extensive Linux systems administration experience
?	Extensive experience automating tasks with shell scripts
?	Extensive experience with high availability technologies like drbd and
heartbeat
?	Extensive experience compiling and configuring Apache and PHP
?	Experience installing and maintaining MySQL databases
?	Experience with LAN/WAN technologies and solid working knowledge of IP
networking





From sarah at cloudmade.com  Tue Feb 24 11:39:05 2009
From: sarah at cloudmade.com (Sarah Manley)
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:39:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] In case you can't make it to the PenLug,
	join OSM in Berkeley this weekend!
Message-ID: <2849077D-5950-47EC-8607-55E773495F14@cloudmade.com>

Dear All,

I just wanted to send a quick reminder that I will be hosting a  
mapping party this weekend in Berkeley. Details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Berkeley_Mapping_Party_Feb2009

I will also be hosting a geo-focused happy hour next week in SF.  
Details: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappy_Hour_Bay_Area

Best,
Sarah

PS: If you are on multiple bay area lug lists, sorry if you see this a  
couple of times.


Sarah Manley
Sarah at cloudmade.com
Cell: 631-338-3815
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley







From jim at well.com  Wed Feb 25 13:52:18 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 13:52:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday February 26, 2009,
	Two Talks: The	Factory Module and PyDev
Message-ID: <1235598738.7421.60.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday February 26, 2009, Two Talks: The Factory
Module and PyDev 

NOTE BayPIGgies is NO LONGER meeting at Google but at the Symantec
Vcafe, at Symantec's location at 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. 

Tonight's talks are 
* The Factory Module 
by Pete Fein, author of the Factory module 

* A PyDev Primer 
by Nathan Ramella 

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: Decorators 
by Charles Merriam 


NEW LOCATION FOR FEBRUARY 26, 2009 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone


About the Talks 

   Factory is an object-oriented approach to partial function 
application, also known as "currying." Python 2.5 added support 
for currying with the addition of functools.partial: 
http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/2.5.html#pep-309-partial-function-application
The Factory module is a more powerful implementation of this pattern.  

Some improvements include:
- safer, as invalid arguments are detected immediately, instead of  
at call time
- intelligent support for classes, instance methods, and all other  
callables
- bound arguments can be inspected and modified as attributes
- several convenient methods for (re)binding arguments

   Using Factories can:
- simplify writing callbacks
- reduce bugs in concurrent applications
- provide easy lazy evaluation 

   This talk will demonstrate the Factory module and discuss its  
implementation and uses. Familiarity with currying is helpful but 
not required. 
   More information is available at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/Factory/


   Tonight's second talk is a PyDev primer, which will cover the basics 
of PyDev and PyDev Extensions. 



------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, 
any first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................

Newbie Nugget: Decorators by Charles Merriam 


..... 7:45 PM to 8:15 PM ................

The Factory Module 
by Pete Fein 

..... 8:15 PM to 8:45 PM ................

A PyDev Primer 
by Nathan Ramella 


Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 

..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics 
the announcers are interested in. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up 
individually on the announcements and other topics of 
interest.

Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 





From john_re at fastmail.us  Thu Feb 26 03:19:14 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:19:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ECC RAM failure data   - jre
Message-ID: <1235647154.23991.1302503987@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Do you use ECC RAM? Do you have any data about failure rates?

I'm evaluating this for a system with 8GB DRAM, &
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random_access_memory#Errors_and_error_correction
says
"Tests[ecc]give widely varying error rates, but about 10-12upset/bit-hr
is typical, roughly one bit error, per month, per gigabyte of memory.

In most computers used for serious scientific or financial computing and
as servers, ECC is the rule rather than the exception, as can be seen by
examining manufacturers' specifications."


So, for that data 8GB DRAM is about 8 errors per month, ie about
one per 3-4 days.

What rates do you have?



From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 26 11:52:07 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:52:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ThinkPython Ex 15.4
Message-ID: <321521.81097.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>



For those of you who might be following Asheesh's Python classes and struggling (as am I) with the excercises:

   The code Allan Downey tells us to use in Chapter 15, Ex.4 seems not to work:

from World import *
world = World()
wait_for_user()

The wait_for_user function is defined in TurtleWorld, not in World.

Substituting TurtleWorld  for World in the two places that it appears, seems to solve the problem.






      




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 13:59:12 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:59:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] The Xubntu lab teaches kids to "appreciate and give back"
Message-ID: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

There are lots and lots of people on this list who have contributed to the
public middle school project in the Western Addition, so I thought that you
might be pleased to see some video by one of the teachers there talking
about how the Xubuntu lab is helping the kids.

http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.ogg

In particular, in this segment beginning at about 2:32, the teacher talks
about how the lab itself is being used as a pedagogic device to teach the
kids how to appreciate and give back to their community.  One of the really
great things about this public middle school is the emphasis that the
teachers and staff place on good behavior and civic mindedness.  It reminds
me what is best about the Free Open Source Software community; namely, our
emphasis on striving to produce quality software that will be of broad
benefit to society as a whole.

http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_b_2009_feb_001.ogg

So I am offering these two videos as a way of saying thank you on behalf of
the teachers, staff and students to all of you who have given so much to the
project.

c u
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From nbs at sonic.net  Thu Feb 26 14:09:13 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:09:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] The Xubntu lab teaches kids to "appreciate and give
	back"
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>


Drat, tried to 'wget' them so I coulddownload now and watch
later, but the links aren't actually the OGG files,
it's some HTML.

Back to work,

-bill!


On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 01:59:12PM -0800, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
>    hi,
> 
>    There are lots and lots of people on this list who have contributed to the
>    public middle school project in the Western Addition, so I thought that
>    you might be pleased to see some video by one of the teachers there
>    talking about how the Xubuntu lab is helping the kids. 
> 
>    http://www.archive.org/details/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.ogg
<snip>



From penguin at techbandit.com  Thu Feb 26 14:20:23 2009
From: penguin at techbandit.com (Romel Jacinto)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:20:23 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time)
Subject: [sf-lug] The Xubntu lab teaches kids to "appreciate and give
 back"
In-Reply-To: <20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>
References: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0902261417300.264@SCID10388>

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:09, Bill Kendrick wrote:
>
> Drat, tried to 'wget' them so I coulddownload now and watch
> later, but the links aren't actually the OGG files,
> it's some HTML.
>

Direct links to the actual video files are at the bottom of that web page.

For your convenience:

MPEG:
http://www.archive.org/download/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.ogg/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.mpg

Ogg:
http://www.archive.org/download/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.ogg/e-dv593_elmer_rivera_a_2009_feb_001.ogv

--
Romel



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 14:23:00 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:23:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] The Xubntu lab teaches kids to "appreciate and give
	back"
In-Reply-To: <20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>
References: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <4b5781040902261423w6b70e718l98c63a2707bd83c@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Bill Kendrick <nbs at sonic.net> wrote:

>
> Drat, tried to 'wget' them so I coulddownload now and watch
> later, but the links aren't actually the OGG files,
> it's some HTML.


In Firefox, Right click on the ogg link and choose save link as.  The ogg
file will download to whatever directory you have designated for Firefox.

Sadly, the ogg video is not as good as the mpg video.  Not sure why.  It has
always been that way.   :-(    But all of our video is available in truly
unencumbered, Free formats.  The only exception to that rule is about 40 or
so segments out of 1,221 segments loaded to the Internet Archive's Digital
Tipping Point Video Collection.  Those first 40 segments were uploaded
before I became aware of ogg theora and before I knew how to transcode from
.dv into .ogg theora.
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 14:26:02 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:26:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] The Xubntu lab teaches kids to "appreciate and give
	back"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.64.0902261417300.264@SCID10388>
References: <4b5781040902261359x6a9a6950jcc21bd775d5063b3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090226220913.GA11184@sonic.net>
	<Pine.WNT.4.64.0902261417300.264@SCID10388>
Message-ID: <4b5781040902261426t41f3193due01396fe700f157f@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 2:20 PM, Romel Jacinto <penguin at techbandit.com>wrote:

> >
> > Drat, tried to 'wget' them so I coulddownload now and watch
> > later, but the links aren't actually the OGG files,
> > it's some HTML.
> >
>
> Direct links to the actual video files are at the bottom of that web page.


Correct.  To clarify, the right-clicking option can be exercised on the
links in the box on the left hand side near the top.

Thx for the pointer, Romel.
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Feb 26 18:38:38 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:38:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] good article looking at the TomTom case
Message-ID: <4b5781040902261838q57bccc7ciacbecb38ab0e657c@mail.gmail.com>

Really worth reading

http://is.gd/l2UG
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Feb 26 19:53:53 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 19:53:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] good article looking at the TomTom case
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040902261838q57bccc7ciacbecb38ab0e657c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040902261838q57bccc7ciacbecb38ab0e657c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090227035352.GQ18004@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> Really worth reading
> http://is.gd/l2UG

Oddly enough, I wrote about Microsoft Corp.'s method for storing long
filenames on FAT _in 1995_ -- out of utter shock at finding out just how
pathetic that method is, from the viewpoint of software design.  

You see, Win95 came out, and I was very curious about how they could 
possibly have stored long filenames on FAT, given that I knew all the
data structures and that there just wasn't anywhere to _put_ that
information.  So, I kept asking around and reading documentation,
figuring it had to be covered somewhere.  It wasn't, not even in the
multi-hundred-dollar developers' reference manuals.  And, to my
astonishment, nobody else I talked to seemed to have even _wondered_
about the question.  Everyone else seemed to just take it for granted.

So, just after the Win95 demo, I took a guess at it, in my column as
editor of _Blue Notes_, 36-page monthly magazine of the San Francisco PC
User Group.  Shortly after going to press, though, I found evidence that
my guess had been wrong.  (Oh well.)  So, determined to get to the
bottom of the puzzle, I started studying Win95 directly, eventually
using Norton Utilities -- which, finally, popped out the answer.

The answer was quite appalling -- and was covered in the _next_ month's
(Nov. 1995) column: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Legacy_Microsoft/win95-bn.html





From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 27 07:48:19 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 07:48:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets this sunday at cafe euro from 11 AM to 1 PM
Message-ID: <1235749699.7421.161.camel@jim-laptop>


   sf-lug meets this sunday, march 1, at the 
cafe euro on geary blvd at 26th avenue from 
11 AM to 1 PM or so. 





From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 27 11:42:44 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 11:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Apache vitrual hosts
Message-ID: <67493.44113.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,
I'm trying to setup some virtual hosts on my Apache install, on Hardy Heron. If I wanted to use a specific, non-routable, ip address, instead of the loopback address, how would I do it? Would I use the following:

 <VirtualHost 192.168.0.1:80>
  ServerName sitename
  ServerAdmin me at myserver
  DocumentRoot /home/vincent/www/sitename
  <Directory /home/vincent/www/sitename
>
     Options -Indexes
     AllowOverride All
     Order Allow,Deny
     Allow From All
  </Directory>
  </VirtualHost>

Thanks,
Vince

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From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 27 14:48:22 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:48:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.com web site accessibility
Message-ID: <1235774902.7421.203.camel@jim-laptop>


   seems the DNS server for sf-lug.com is not 
functioning. 
   the box is working and browsing the ip address 
( 208.96.15.252 ) brings up the web site where 
browsing www.sf-lug.com times out. 
   dig sf-lug.com returns 
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached 
   the name is registered with network solutions, 
which shows sf-lug.com points to ns1.sf-lug.com and 
ns2.sf-lug.com 
   dig ns1.sf-lug.com shows an internet A record of 
208.96.15.252 (this dns server is on the box itself). 
   dig ns2.sf-lug.com shows an internet A record of 
192.144.195.186 which seems to be (or recently have 
been) on the sf peninsula. 

   sf-lug.org works as expected. 

   balug.org works as expected (although its internet 
A record is 208.113.160.236 according to dns SERVER 
216.231.41.2 which is a speakeasy domain name server 
host). this implies that balug has repointed its 
domain name away from the box at servepath. 

   i'll first try to discover what's up with the 
ns2 host. default resolution will be to use the 
network solutions DNS server. 

   all opinions and info are welcome. 
jim 





From tom at greenleaftech.net  Fri Feb 27 15:50:36 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 15:50:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Apache vitrual hosts
In-Reply-To: <67493.44113.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <67493.44113.qm@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1235778636.26951.198.camel@hurlyburly>

Yeah, typically you'd throw that in an appropriately named file
in /etc/apache2/sites-available and then add a symlink to it
from /etc/apache2/sites-enabled (there's an apache utility that'll do
this for you, but I don't remember the name of it offhand). You'll need
a "NameVirtualHost 192.168.0.1:80" directive outside of the
<VirtualHost> stanza as well.

Cheers, Tom

On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 11:42 -0800, vincent polite wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm trying to setup some virtual hosts on my Apache install, on Hardy
> Heron. If I wanted to use a specific, non-routable, ip address,
> instead of the loopback address, how would I do it? Would I use the
> following:
> 
> <VirtualHost 192.168.0.1:80>
>   ServerName sitename
>   ServerAdmin me at myserver
>   DocumentRoot /home/vincent/www/sitename
>   <Directory /home/vincent/www/sitename
> >
>      Options -Indexes
>      AllowOverride All
>      Order Allow,Deny
>      Allow From All
>   </Directory>
>   </VirtualHost>
> 
> Thanks,
> Vince
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Feb 27 17:54:54 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 17:54:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.com web site accessibility
In-Reply-To: <1235774902.7421.203.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1235774902.7421.203.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090228015453.GA24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    seems the DNS server for sf-lug.com is not 
> functioning. 

Well, specifically, the _master_ namserver has developed an attitude
problem and is refusing to play.  Which then leaves the slave nameserver
nothing to work with.  More below.

>    the box is working and browsing the ip address 
> ( 208.96.15.252 ) brings up the web site where 
> browsing www.sf-lug.com times out. 
>    dig sf-lug.com returns 
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached 

When doing nameserver diagnosis, you really shouldn't just say 
"dig [record]", because then you have no idea where that query 
is going.  You want to use the "@" qualifier to send it to a relevant
nameserver.

My recollection, by the way, is that, if you don't bother to specify a
destination nameserver, the query will go to a randomly selected
nameserver from among those listed in /etc/resolv.conf (your local
DNS client = resolver library's conffile).

>    the name is registered with network solutions, 
> which shows sf-lug.com points to ns1.sf-lug.com and 
> ns2.sf-lug.com 

Correct.

>    dig ns1.sf-lug.com shows an internet A record of 
> 208.96.15.252 (this dns server is on the box itself). 
>    dig ns2.sf-lug.com shows an internet A record of 
> 192.144.195.186 which seems to be (or recently have 
    ^
> been) on the sf peninsula. 

You mis-typed a digit.

:r! dig ns2.sf-lug.com +short
198.144.195.186

I know that IP.  ;->

:r! dig -x 198.144.195.186 +short
linuxmafia.COM.

That's _my_ nameserver.

Let's query specifically my nameserver about "www.sf-lug.com"

:r! dig www.sf-lug.com @ns2.sf-lug.com 

;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 12433
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

Double-checking by asking for the SOA header:

:r! dig -t soa www.sf-lug.com @ns2.sf-lug.com

;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: SERVFAIL, id: 6328
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0

OK, that proves that my nameserver is refusing queries about the
sf-lug.com domain as a whole, not just the "A" record for
"www.sf-lug.com".

Next question, is my nameserver _trying_ to serve DNS for that domain?
Looking in /etc/bind/named.conf.local:

zone "sf-lug.com" {
        type slave; 
        file "/var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone";
        allow-query { any; };
        allow-transfer { none; };
        masters {
        //ns1.sf-lug.com is:
        208.96.15.252;
        };
};


So, the answer is "Yes, it is, serving as a secondary = slave nameserver
by pulling down zone transfers from master nameserver ns1.sf-lug.com, 
which is at IP 208.96.15.252, and storing the thus-received zonefiles
in the /var/cache/bind record as filename sf-lug.com.zone."

Do we have a zonefile sf-lug.com.zone in /var/cache/bind?

:r /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone


$ORIGIN .
$TTL 86400	; 1 day
sf-lug.com		IN SOA	ns1.sf-lug.com. jim.well.com. (
				2007102904 ; serial
				3600       ; refresh (1 hour)
				3600       ; retry (1 hour)
				1209600    ; expire (2 weeks)
				10800      ; minimum (3 hours)
				)
			NS	ns1.sf-lug.com.
			NS	ns2.sf-lug.com.
			A	208.96.15.252
			MX	5 mail.sf-lug.com.
			TXT	"v=spf1 a mx -all"
$ORIGIN sf-lug.com.
mail			A	208.96.15.252
ns1			A	208.96.15.252
ns2			A	198.144.195.186
www			A	208.96.15.252


:r! ls -l /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone
-rw-r--r-- 1 bind bind 470 2009-02-12 22:00 /var/cache/bind/sf-lug.com.zone

Well, there's part of your answer:  The last successful zone transfer
was on Feb. 12, and all the records in the zone have a Time to Live
(TTL) of 1 day = 86400 seconds.  _So_, my nameserver does have a copy of
the zone, but all the records are marked as expired.

And, here's a direct test of what I suspect is the root cause:


:r! dig -t axfr sf-lug.com @ns1.sf-lug.com
;; Connection to 208.96.15.252#53(208.96.15.252) for sf-lug.com failed: connection refused.

Doing a "dig" with type = "axfr" is performing a manual zone transfer. 
Attempting to do so _from_ the command line of linuxmafia.com aka
ns2.sf-lug.com (which is what I effectively just did, above) _should_ 
have worked -- but is being refused upstream at ns1.sf-lug.com, IP
address 208.96.15.252 .

And what is 208.96.15.252?

:r! dig -x 208.96.15.252 +short
208.96.15.252.servepath.com.

Over to you guys, Jim.  At the moment, my nameserver is set up to slave
to an IP that's, for some reason, no longer willing to send it zone
data.[1]

If you wish, I can easily switch my nameservice over to _master_
namservice for the zone, until you can line up replacement master
nameservice somewhere.  That would un-break the DNS, because my 
nameserver would cease to regard its cached copy of the zone as expired.

In the longer term, please just let me know where _other_ than
208.96.15.252 my slave nameservice should try to pull from.  (Actually,
my default will be to take no action, which is probably what you want if
you think 208.96.15.252's refusal might be an error / accidental and
will soon be fixed.


>    sf-lug.org works as expected. 

Are you clear on how you check this?

1.  Get all authoritative nameserver IPs from the "whois" record.
2.  Query each of those IPs (dig -t soa [domain] @[IP]) for the zone SOA
    record.  Make sure all return the same S/N in the SOA record.


>    balug.org works as expected (although its internet 
> A record is 208.113.160.236 according to dns SERVER 
> 216.231.41.2 which is a speakeasy domain name server 
> host). this implies that balug has repointed its 
> domain name away from the box at servepath. 

:r! whois balug.org | grep "Name Server"
Name Server:NS1.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server:NS2.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server:NS3.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 


:r! dig -t soa balug.org @NS1.DREAMHOST.COM +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400

:r! dig -t soa balug.org @NS2.DREAMHOST.COM +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400

:r! dig -t soa balug.org @NS3.DREAMHOST.COM +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400

So, with identical S/Ns, unless there's something _really_ peculiar
going on, at least they have the same zonefile.  (There are freaky 
cases where, through someone's screwup, master and slave nameservers can
end up with differing zonefiles that nonetheless have the same S/N, but 
that's unlikely.)

Checking the "A" record for FQDN "www.balug.org" at the first
nameserver:

:r! dig www.balug.org @NS1.DREAMHOST.COM +short
208.113.160.236

:r! host NS1.DREAMHOST.COM
NS1.DREAMHOST.COM has address 66.33.206.206

:r! host NS2.DREAMHOST.COM
NS2.DREAMHOST.COM has address 208.96.10.221

:r! host NS3.DREAMHOST.COM
NS3.DREAMHOST.COM has address 66.33.216.216


And, er, _why_ are querying "216.231.41.2", which isn't in balug.org's
authoritative list?  


:r! dig -x 216.231.41.2 +short
ns-legacy.speakeasy.net.

That IP _is_, as you say, a Speakeasy.net nameserver, but, the point is,
why are you asking it about balug.org at all?  

Yes, it did answer that query, but only in its role as a recursive
server.  It basically asked the Internet as a whole, which fetched data
that ultimately would have derived from one of the authoritative servers
at Dreamhost -- which means it was cached data and could have been 
obsolete.  In general, you'll get more timely and accurate DNS data by
querying the authoritative servers, not just any ol' nameserver that
happens to be near you.


>    i'll first try to discover what's up with the 
> ns2 host. default resolution will be to use the 
> network solutions DNS server. 

Er, feel free to telephone me if you need investigation.  I happen to
know DNS pretty well.  As you'll see (above), there's literally
_nothing_ wrong with ns2.  It's trying its level best to pull down
zonefile data from ns1; ns1 is refusing.  Hence, starting Feb. 13, 
when the TTL expired, all it's had is stale, expired data.

[1] After writing the above, I re-read what you said about what
"208.96.15.252", e.g., "this dns server is on the box itself".
Therefore, the ultimate answer seems to be:  "Jim, you guys need to make
sure your master nameserver is running, if you expect my slave to pick
up zonefiles from it."




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Feb 27 18:52:09 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:52:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.com web site accessibility
In-Reply-To: <1235774902.7421.203.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1235774902.7421.203.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <20090228025208.GB24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim (jim at well.com):

>    dig ns1.sf-lug.com shows an internet A record of 
> 208.96.15.252 (this dns server is on the box itself). 

In case my point was not clear, the root cause is that the nameserver
daemon in question (BIND9 or whatever) on ns1.sf-lug.com AKA
www.svlug.com AKA IP address 208.96.15.252 appears to be either 
not running at all or (for some reason) not responding to queries.

My guess:  BIND9 isn't running.  (Could be other things, e.g., hung
processes, firewalling error, etc., but that'd be my bet.)

I mostly wanted to teach a few folks how to do nameserver debugging:
You follow the chain from looking up the authoritative servers in the
whois records, and then use "dig" to send _specifically_ to them 
("@" qualifier) queries about what they know.  Querying for type = soa
within a zone is often useful because SOA records include zonefile S/N
values.  If not all the authoritative servers have the same S/N, then
that's often the smoking gun, as you can often spot quickly which slave
is either not bothering to consult the master or being refused at the
master, and then can use other methods to figure out why.

If you run one or more of the nameservers, then it's also extremely 
handy to watch new additions to /var/log/messages.

Also, at the command line of any slave nameserver, you should be able to 
similate the client end of a zone transfer operation by typing
"dig  -t axfr  zonename  @master-ip" .





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Feb 28 03:39:34 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:39:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] balug.org DNS (was: sf-lug.com web site accessibility)
Message-ID: <20090228033934.16966r0vq3vc3kg8@webmail.rawbw.com>

regarding:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006424.html
>    balug.org works as expected (although its internet
> A record is 208.113.160.236 according to dns SERVER
> 216.231.41.2 which is a speakeasy domain name server
> host). this implies that balug has repointed its
> domain name away from the box at servepath.

No changes regarding balug.org DNS that I'm aware of ... at least that
are or would be problematic.

There's also handy-dandy non-authoritative DNS cheat sheet for
BALUG.ORG. at:
http://www.balug.org/dns
The full details of all of BALUG.ORG.'s various DNS bits get a fair bit
messier to look at ... hence there's also the short cheat sheet version
(quite high-level stuff only)

208.113.160.236 is just another VIP apparently on the same host as
208.97.167.22, with 208.113.160.236 serving up
http://www.balug.org/
and
http://balug.org/
and apparently/presumably, 208.97.167.22 being IP correlating to the actual
host's canonical name.  Both IPs apparently serve ssh on the same host.

references/excerpts (dreamhost banner, etc. stuff <snip>ped a fair bit):
$ dig -t A balug.org. +short
208.113.160.236
$ dig -t A www.balug.org. +short
208.113.160.236
$ dig -t A tab.dreamhost.com. +short
208.97.167.22
$ ssh -atx -l mpaoli 208.97.167.22
<snip>
[tab]$ hostname; who -HTu | fgrep mpaoli
tab
mpaoli   + pts/0        Feb 12 15:25  old        27342 (198.144.194.236)
mpaoli   + pts/9        Feb 28 03:20   .          1674 (198.144.194.236)
[tab]$ ~^Z [suspend ssh]

[1]+  Stopped                 ssh -atx -l mpaoli 208.97.167.22
$ ssh -atx -l mpaoli 208.113.160.236
<snip>
[tab]$ hostname; who -HTu | fgrep mpaoli
tab
mpaoli   + pts/0        Feb 12 15:25  old        27342 (198.144.194.236)
mpaoli   + pts/9        Feb 28 03:20   .          1674 (198.144.194.236)
mpaoli   + pts/10       Feb 28 03:21   .          9589 (198.144.194.236)
[tab]$ exit
logout
Connection to 208.113.160.236 closed.
$ fg %1
ssh -atx -l mpaoli 208.97.167.22
exit
logout
Connection to 208.97.167.22 closed.
$ ssh-add -D
All identities removed.
$




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Feb 28 03:55:17 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 03:55:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS 208.96.15.252 "broken"
Message-ID: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>

also BCCed to out-of-band SF-LUG admin alias; some
earlier communications on the problem also sent to those folks and
Rick Moen

Would appear 208.96.15.252 is quite broken as NS for sf-lug.com.,
and apparently
(http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006426.html)
the other NS for sf-lug.com. - 198.144.195.186 - is
slave for sf-lug.com. of only master 208.96.15.252,
thus once 208.96.15.252 fails, sooner or later (based upon
zone expire, if nothing else) 198.144.195.186
will also in turn "fail" (properly refuse to stop providing
answers) for sf-lug.com.

Note that clearly 208.96.15.252 also refuses TCP - both TCP and
UDP need to be working properly on port 53 for DNS to function
properly.

$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
;; global options:  printcmd
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
$ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
;; Connection to 208.96.15.252#53(208.96.15.252) for sf-lug.com.  
failed: connection refused.
$ tcptraceroute -n 208.96.15.252 53
Selected device eth0, address 198.144.194.236, port 40463 for outgoing packets
Tracing the path to 208.96.15.252 on TCP port 53 (domain), 30 hops max
  1  198.144.194.233  10.334 ms  11.012 ms  9.709 ms
  2  209.237.228.169  11.087 ms  10.834 ms  12.342 ms
  3  209.237.224.25  13.214 ms  10.333 ms  10.593 ms
  4  207.7.129.73  10.590 ms  11.085 ms  10.695 ms
  5  207.7.159.54  11.966 ms  11.831 ms  14.590 ms
  6  206.223.116.86  12.579 ms  12.205 ms  11.843 ms
  7  64.125.27.90  12.216 ms  12.334 ms  12.216 ms
  8  64.124.196.6  13.088 ms  12.707 ms  13.091 ms
  9  208.96.31.6  14.465 ms  13.708 ms  12.841 ms
10  208.96.15.252 [closed]  13.837 ms  13.704 ms  13.842 ms
$




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Feb 28 04:05:06 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:05:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fixing! :-) Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS 208.96.15.252
	"broken"
In-Reply-To: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>

Ah, ... silly me, ... I failed to note that 208.96.15.252 is
on the sf-lug.com. box itself, ... I believe I've got the access to
be able to go in there and fix it, ... I'll have a looksie and see if
I can't get it whipped back into shape shortly.

BCC also again, ... sf-lug admin folks

Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:

> also BCCed to out-of-band SF-LUG admin alias; some
> earlier communications on the problem also sent to those folks and
> Rick Moen
>
> Would appear 208.96.15.252 is quite broken as NS for sf-lug.com.,
> and apparently
> (http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006426.html)
> the other NS for sf-lug.com. - 198.144.195.186 - is
> slave for sf-lug.com. of only master 208.96.15.252,
> thus once 208.96.15.252 fails, sooner or later (based upon
> zone expire, if nothing else) 198.144.195.186
> will also in turn "fail" (properly refuse to stop providing
> answers) for sf-lug.com.
>
> Note that clearly 208.96.15.252 also refuses TCP - both TCP and
> UDP need to be working properly on port 53 for DNS to function
> properly.
>
> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
> ;; global options:  printcmd
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
> ;; Connection to 208.96.15.252#53(208.96.15.252) for sf-lug.com.  
> failed: connection refused.
> $ tcptraceroute -n 208.96.15.252 53
> Selected device eth0, address 198.144.194.236, port 40463 for  
> outgoing packets
> Tracing the path to 208.96.15.252 on TCP port 53 (domain), 30 hops max
>  1  198.144.194.233  10.334 ms  11.012 ms  9.709 ms
>  2  209.237.228.169  11.087 ms  10.834 ms  12.342 ms
>  3  209.237.224.25  13.214 ms  10.333 ms  10.593 ms
>  4  207.7.129.73  10.590 ms  11.085 ms  10.695 ms
>  5  207.7.159.54  11.966 ms  11.831 ms  14.590 ms
>  6  206.223.116.86  12.579 ms  12.205 ms  11.843 ms
>  7  64.125.27.90  12.216 ms  12.334 ms  12.216 ms
>  8  64.124.196.6  13.088 ms  12.707 ms  13.091 ms
>  9  208.96.31.6  14.465 ms  13.708 ms  12.841 ms
> 10  208.96.15.252 [closed]  13.837 ms  13.704 ms  13.842 ms
> $
>





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Feb 28 04:14:19 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:14:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fixing! :-) Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS
	208.96.15.252	"broken"
In-Reply-To: <20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090228041419.4057603yrtqq9pc0@webmail.rawbw.com>

P.S.:
might almost be able to follow the play-by-play here:
http://208.96.15.252/log.txt
... resolution details will be there too once fixed;
and when all's well again, that'll be:
http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt

Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:

> Ah, ... silly me, ... I failed to note that 208.96.15.252 is
> on the sf-lug.com. box itself, ... I believe I've got the access to
> be able to go in there and fix it, ... I'll have a looksie and see if
> I can't get it whipped back into shape shortly.
>
> BCC also again, ... sf-lug admin folks
>
> Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:
>
>> also BCCed to out-of-band SF-LUG admin alias; some
>> earlier communications on the problem also sent to those folks and
>> Rick Moen
>>
>> Would appear 208.96.15.252 is quite broken as NS for sf-lug.com.,
>> and apparently
>> (http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006426.html)
>> the other NS for sf-lug.com. - 198.144.195.186 - is
>> slave for sf-lug.com. of only master 208.96.15.252,
>> thus once 208.96.15.252 fails, sooner or later (based upon
>> zone expire, if nothing else) 198.144.195.186
>> will also in turn "fail" (properly refuse to stop providing
>> answers) for sf-lug.com.
>>
>> Note that clearly 208.96.15.252 also refuses TCP - both TCP and
>> UDP need to be working properly on port 53 for DNS to function
>> properly.
>>
>> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>>
>> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>> ;; global options:  printcmd
>> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
>> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
>> ;; Connection to 208.96.15.252#53(208.96.15.252) for sf-lug.com.  
>> failed: connection refused.
>> $ tcptraceroute -n 208.96.15.252 53
>> Selected device eth0, address 198.144.194.236, port 40463 for  
>> outgoing packets
>> Tracing the path to 208.96.15.252 on TCP port 53 (domain), 30 hops max
>> 1  198.144.194.233  10.334 ms  11.012 ms  9.709 ms
>> 2  209.237.228.169  11.087 ms  10.834 ms  12.342 ms
>> 3  209.237.224.25  13.214 ms  10.333 ms  10.593 ms
>> 4  207.7.129.73  10.590 ms  11.085 ms  10.695 ms
>> 5  207.7.159.54  11.966 ms  11.831 ms  14.590 ms
>> 6  206.223.116.86  12.579 ms  12.205 ms  11.843 ms
>> 7  64.125.27.90  12.216 ms  12.334 ms  12.216 ms
>> 8  64.124.196.6  13.088 ms  12.707 ms  13.091 ms
>> 9  208.96.31.6  14.465 ms  13.708 ms  12.841 ms
>> 10  208.96.15.252 [closed]  13.837 ms  13.704 ms  13.842 ms
>> $
>>
>
>





From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sat Feb 28 04:43:57 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:43:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fixed: Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS 208.96.15.252
	"broken"
In-Reply-To: <20090228041419.4057603yrtqq9pc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228041419.4057603yrtqq9pc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090228044357.12181z6olicysm80@webmail.rawbw.com>

Fixed, details towards the tail end of:
http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt

BCCing the usual suspects.

Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:

> P.S.:
> might almost be able to follow the play-by-play here:
> http://208.96.15.252/log.txt
> ... resolution details will be there too once fixed;
> and when all's well again, that'll be:
> http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt
>
> Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:
>
>> Ah, ... silly me, ... I failed to note that 208.96.15.252 is
>> on the sf-lug.com. box itself, ... I believe I've got the access to
>> be able to go in there and fix it, ... I'll have a looksie and see if
>> I can't get it whipped back into shape shortly.
>>
>> BCC also again, ... sf-lug admin folks
>>
>> Quoting "Michael Paoli" <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>:
>>
>>> also BCCed to out-of-band SF-LUG admin alias; some
>>> earlier communications on the problem also sent to those folks and
>>> Rick Moen
>>>
>>> Would appear 208.96.15.252 is quite broken as NS for sf-lug.com.,
>>> and apparently
>>> (http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006426.html)
>>> the other NS for sf-lug.com. - 198.144.195.186 - is
>>> slave for sf-lug.com. of only master 208.96.15.252,
>>> thus once 208.96.15.252 fails, sooner or later (based upon
>>> zone expire, if nothing else) 198.144.195.186
>>> will also in turn "fail" (properly refuse to stop providing
>>> answers) for sf-lug.com.
>>>
>>> Note that clearly 208.96.15.252 also refuses TCP - both TCP and
>>> UDP need to be working properly on port 53 for DNS to function
>>> properly.
>>>
>>> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>>>
>>> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>>> ;; global options:  printcmd
>>> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
>>> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
>>> ;; Connection to 208.96.15.252#53(208.96.15.252) for sf-lug.com.  
>>> failed: connection refused.
>>> $ tcptraceroute -n 208.96.15.252 53
>>> Selected device eth0, address 198.144.194.236, port 40463 for  
>>> outgoing packets
>>> Tracing the path to 208.96.15.252 on TCP port 53 (domain), 30 hops max
>>> 1  198.144.194.233  10.334 ms  11.012 ms  9.709 ms
>>> 2  209.237.228.169  11.087 ms  10.834 ms  12.342 ms
>>> 3  209.237.224.25  13.214 ms  10.333 ms  10.593 ms
>>> 4  207.7.129.73  10.590 ms  11.085 ms  10.695 ms
>>> 5  207.7.159.54  11.966 ms  11.831 ms  14.590 ms
>>> 6  206.223.116.86  12.579 ms  12.205 ms  11.843 ms
>>> 7  64.125.27.90  12.216 ms  12.334 ms  12.216 ms
>>> 8  64.124.196.6  13.088 ms  12.707 ms  13.091 ms
>>> 9  208.96.31.6  14.465 ms  13.708 ms  12.841 ms
>>> 10  208.96.15.252 [closed]  13.837 ms  13.704 ms  13.842 ms
>>> $
>>>
>>
>>
>
>





From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Feb 28 09:30:01 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:30:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fixed: Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS 208.96.15.252
	"broken"
In-Reply-To: <20090228044357.12181z6olicysm80@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228041419.4057603yrtqq9pc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228044357.12181z6olicysm80@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902280929400.29108@vellum.laroia.net>

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009, Michael Paoli wrote:

> Fixed, details towards the tail end of:
> http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt

Thanks! You rock.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	How many IBM CPU's does it take to do a logical right shift?
A:	33.  1 to hold the bits and 32 to push the register.



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sat Feb 28 09:50:02 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 09:50:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>

Some of you may find this interesting. A Ubuntu based XFCE-customized
distro for kids. http://www.qimo4kids.com/WhatIsQimo.aspx

Note: they are running on a Microsoft box :-) No dogfooding here?

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From jim at well.com  Sat Feb 28 11:00:32 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:00:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] ThinkPython Ex 15.4
In-Reply-To: <321521.81097.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <321521.81097.qm@web111004.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1235847632.7421.219.camel@jim-laptop>



   monday can we discuss the syntax 
from <THIS> import <THAT> 
   per alex' example 
from World import * 


On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 11:52 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> 
> For those of you who might be following Asheesh's Python classes and struggling (as am I) with the excercises:
> 
>    The code Allan Downey tells us to use in Chapter 15, Ex.4 seems not to work:
> 
> from World import *
> world = World()
> wait_for_user()
> 
> The wait_for_user function is defined in TurtleWorld, not in World.
> 
> Substituting TurtleWorld  for World in the two places that it appears, seems to solve the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 28 12:20:17 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:20:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] ThinkPython Ex 15.4
Message-ID: <696799.73668.qm@web111005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Jim,

as a head start on Monday's class:

assume <THIS> is ex15
assume ex15.py is in the working directory and it contains 
your module code (defining classes, procedures, anything else you might want to reuse in other places.)
references to ex15 will refer to the code that is in ex15.py
You can make use of that code either by issuing the statement
from ex15 import *
which 'import's the unqualified (my expression) name space from ex15.ex
or
import ex15
which provides access to the objects (the name space) in ex15.py but only if you use the preface/qualifier 'ex15.' before each reference.
I.e. if 
class Rectangle ():
is defined in ex15.py
you could make use of it in another file in one of two ways:
from ex15 import *
rect = Rectangle()
or
import ex15
rect = ex15.Rectangle()
A third scenario would be as follows:
assume that ex15.py also contains a declaration for 
class Circle():
Then you  could 
from ex15 import Circle
which would allow you to reference Circle with out the prefix 
but (I assume) if you wanted to reference Rectangle
?you couldn't do it?
or ?you would have to use 'ex15.Rectangle()'?
I haven't considered this until now and need to experiment to find out.
..............................
How am I doing?
It's a name space issue: the convenience of not having to qualify references vs the possibility of have identifier conflicts.
One of the following, has a good section regarding name space as it pertains to Python in general and the use of Classes in particular, I can't remember which:
http://docs.python.org/tutorial/classes.html
http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutclass.htm

alex


a_kleider at yahoo.com


--- On Sat, 2/28/09, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

> From: jim <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] ThinkPython Ex 15.4
> To: alex at kleico.net
> Cc: "Linux userGroup" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 11:00 AM
> monday can we discuss the syntax 
> from <THIS> import <THAT> 
>    per alex' example 
> from World import * 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 11:52 -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> > 
> > For those of you who might be following Asheesh's
> Python classes and struggling (as am I) with the excercises:
> > 
> >    The code Allan Downey tells us to use in Chapter
> 15, Ex.4 seems not to work:
> > 
> > from World import *
> > world = World()
> > wait_for_user()
> > 
> > The wait_for_user function is defined in TurtleWorld,
> not in World.
> > 
> > Substituting TurtleWorld  for World in the two places
> that it appears, seems to solve the problem.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



      




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Feb 28 14:05:09 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:05:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fixed: Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS 208.96.15.252
	"broken"
In-Reply-To: <20090228044357.12181z6olicysm80@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228035517.12206zce085qm2w4@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228040506.190469xt0s8i8tc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228041419.4057603yrtqq9pc0@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090228044357.12181z6olicysm80@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090228220508.GC24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Fixed, details towards the tail end of:
> http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt

Short version:  The instance of BIND9 that served DNS nameservice as
ns1.sf-lug.com was not set to launch at boot time.  Michael fixed error,
and also started a runtime BIND9 instance.  And then, the most important
thing:

> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
> 208.96.15.252
> $ dig @208.96.15.252 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
> 208.96.15.252
> $

Something I have to keep teaching people working for and with me (but
not, of course, Michael):  The only relevant test of a hardware or
software system is whether it carries out the function(s) for which it
exists.  BIND9 on 208.96.15.252 is there to (1) answer queries, and (2) 
provide zone transfers to its secondaries (slaves).

Michael's test, above, verifies that the machine is answering queries
_both_ using the default UDP transport and using TCP.  As mentioned
elsewhere, most DNS is over UDP packets, but TCP is required for (a)
zone transfers and (b) any responses whose total length exceeds 512
bytes, which some do.

This fact is significant to note, in part, because it's _very_ common
for syadmins unaware of that wrinkle to commit the bonehead error of
firewalling off port 53/tcp, thinking "All I have to do is allow 53/udp,
to let my nameserver do its job."  Wrong.  Doing that permits almost all
queries to go through, but with a few mysterious failures, and makes all
zone transfers between master and slave nameservers fail.

The other common bonehead error for firewalling DNS goes as follows: 
Someone's looking through BIND9 docs (usually for a nameserver in a
network DMZ zone or behind the corporate firewall), and sees a
"query-source" directive that can be used in the conffile to "lock" BIND9
to originating all queries to originate from port 53 (the dedicated
TCP/IP port for DNS queries).  This admin then thinks, "Oh, good,
that'll simplify my firewalling:  I can block all outgoing traffic 
except from identified services such as port 53 for DNS."  The admin
writes an iptables rule, verifies that DNS seems to be still working,
and calls it good.

_Really_ bad idea.  Modern nameservers _deliberately_ randomise query
ports for security reasons.  Going out of your way to disable that
feature makes your nameserver highly vulnerable to cache-poisoning
attacks.  So, don't use "query-source".


And do _not_ let anyone loose with root-user access and a desire to
write iptables rules, without verifying that he/she has a clue about
what the essential services actually need.  I've seen more novice
sysadmin shoot themselves with the foot doing firewalling than just
about everything else combined.



Getting back to Michael's checks, there remained point #2, zone 
transfers, which he checked indirectly, as follows:

> $ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
> 208.96.15.252
> $ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
> 208.96.15.252
> $

(As a reminder, IP "198.144.195.186" is the secondary = slave
nameserver for domain sf-lug.com, _my_ nameserver.)

Michael verified that the slave nameserver, likewise, is now able to
resolve "sf-lug.com", using both UDP and TCP query types.  This
_indirectly_ confirms that the slave must have successfully pulled down
a fresh copy of the zone from the master recently, because (as we know
from upthread), as of yesterday the slave had expired out the copy of
the data it had on file from a couple of weeks ago, its Time to Live
(TTL) having expired without any zone transfers occurring to refresh the
data from the master.

Michael could have checked _directly_ for that zone transfer by looking
in the master server's /var/log/messages file, where he'd have seen the
master sending out a NOTIFY signal (the "Hey, slave nameservers, there's
a zone being freshly loaded (e.g., because the DNS daemon just started)
or revised for you to pick up" notice that masters send to slaves, as
part of the DNS protocols), and then the record of 198.144.195.186
pulling down the zone.

Checking the slave nameserver's ability to answer queries is good;
checking for the zone transfer's occurrence directly is also good.


Anyway, I should add:  Just two nameservers is a bad idea.  Best
practices per the RFCs is _minimum_ three recommended, maximum seven.
Admittedly, sf-lug.com would not have been saved from downtime by a
second slave, given that y'all failed to notice for a couple of week
your master nameserver being offline, but achieving at least the
recommended level of redundancy will save you from most other types of
outages.

I can offer you SVLUG's nameserver as a second slave.  NS1.SVLUG.ORG, IP
64.62.190.98.  Just add it to ns1.sf-lug.com's allowed-transfer ACL in
/etc/bind/named.conf, restart BIND9, and let me know.  I'll set up slave
nameservice and confirm that it can pull down zones and answer quereies,
and you then add it to the authoritative list.

You really should not keep trying to get by with only two.  Bad idea.
Really.


Ideally, you should (and, well, I should, too) also set up a little 
cronjob, using "dig" to query the master and all slaves for the SOA
record, and then parsing out the zonefile S/N using awk and making sure
all nameservers are reporting the same value -- and sending admins
e-mail if any of the machines isn't serving up data or isn't up-to-date.
Running that daily would more than suffice.  Shouldn't be difficult.

Why?  Because, as one learns the hard way, the guy who promised to do
secondary nameservice for you a year ago will often forget, shut it off,
and not bother to tell you.

Actually, in fact, that aforementioned cronjob, to make it _really_ 
useful, would also query either "whois" or the NS records inside the
parent zone's records (in this case, the .com TLD zone's
nameservers[1]), to find out whether the master and slaves are still
authoritative.  Because the other mishap that keeps occurring is:  A
year ago, you agreed to do secondary for a friend's domain, and have
been doing it faithfully.  One day, it somehow occurs to you to reverify
that your secondary service is still authoritative, and suddenly it's
not:  You've been doing secondary pointlessly for an unknown number of
months, because the bozo ceased using your service and failed to mention
that fact to you.


Last, Jim, have you considered graduating to something better than
BIND9?  Seriously.  It's a dreadful piece of code:  slow, RAM-grabbing,
overfeatured, and with a questionable security model.  It's no longer as
scandalously buggy as BIND8 was, having gone through a total rewrite,
but it's still scandalously bad.

I realise you're, in part, trying to teach aspiring sysadmins how to
wrangle the same terrible software they're likely to encounter in
industry, but, now that you've done that for a while and learned the
ropes, maybe you're ready to switch to something that doesn't suck.

If ns1.sf-lug.com is doing only authoritative service, e.g., the
machine's /etc/resolv.conf doesn't point to it for general ("recursive")
nameservice, then look no further than NSD.  I can send you an example
setup, as it's what we use on NS1.SVLUG.ORG.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Feb 28 16:56:46 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:56:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] balug.org DNS (was: sf-lug.com web site accessibility)
In-Reply-To: <20090228033934.16966r0vq3vc3kg8@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <20090228033934.16966r0vq3vc3kg8@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090301005646.GH24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> No changes regarding balug.org DNS that I'm aware of ... at least that
> are or would be problematic.

As an additional exercise, I'll now show you how I might check out
whether balug.org DNS is OK.  This is something _anyone_ can do, 
even MS-Windows sufferers.  (There's a free-of-charge download of 
"whois" and "dig" programs in MS-Windows executable format on the Web.)

In my former e-mail, I was launching shell commands inside of vi, while 
composing my mailing list reply in that editor -- indicating so doing by
typing ":r! " at the beginning of a line to show a vi shell escape.  In
the following, for clarity's sake, I'll just show "$" to indicate a bash
prompt, OK?

First, we want to identify balug.org's _authoritative_ nameservers. 
Anyone can set up a DNS nameserver that claims to be publishing reliable
balug.org DNS information, but the only ones people will _consult_ are
the ones the parent zone -- that would be .org in the case of balug.org
-- identifies as having authority over balug.org.  

There are two ways to do this.  One is to ask the shared "WHOIS"
registries that all of the domain registrars communicate with and share.
One can do that with the "whois" command, looking specifically for the
lines starting with "Name Server":

$ whois balug.org | grep "Name Server"
Name Server:NS1.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server:NS2.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server:NS3.DREAMHOST.COM
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:


The other way is to ask the nameservers for "org." directly -- which
makes this as two-step process, because you first have to find one of
the six nameservers that serve up "org."'s information, and then ask one
of them "What are the nameservers for balug.org?"  The best
tool, as for just about any other DNS query, is "dig":

$ dig  -t ns  org.  +short  #What are org.'s nameservers?
a0.org.afilias-nst.info.
a2.org.afilias-nst.info.
b0.org.afilias-nst.org.
b2.org.afilias-nst.org.
c0.org.afilias-nst.info.
d0.org.afilias-nst.org.
  
Now that you have the list of org nameservers, you can ask _them_ about
balug.org's nameservers.  I had to do a little fiddling, because it
turns out that the people who now operate org aren't returning exactly
correct results any more.  (They should be giving data in the Answer
Section, not just in the Authority Section that is omitted if you query
using the "+short" flag.)

$ dig  -t ns  balug.org  @a0.org.afilias-nst.info. 
[...]
;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
balug.org.		86400	IN	NS	ns3.dreamhost.com.
balug.org.		86400	IN	NS	ns2.dreamhost.com.
balug.org.		86400	IN	NS	ns1.dreamhost.com.


Please note:  The _order_ in which authoritative nameservers (or, for
that matter, "NS" lines in zonefiles) are listed is _not_ significant.  
You have absolutely no idea which server will get used/consulted during 
normal DNS operations.  dig's "@", by contrast, allows you to send a
query directly to a specific nameserver, but DNS generally goes first to
wherever that machine's DNS gets shoveled off to, eventually getting to
data originated some time back by an unpredictably selected
authoritative server and then cached for some period of time (with the
result that you can't predict where it came from, and it might be
obsolete).

You might be thinking, "Hey, wait, what about the fact that one of the
authoritative servers for the zone is the master, and all others are
slaves?"  Master/slave relationship for zonefiles has nothing to do with
_serving_ of DNS.  It solely concerns which of the authoritative servers 
publishes the master copy to the others -- and actually isn't essential
to DNS at all, as there are other ways of propagating zone information
(e.g., having several machines in dispersed locations all drawing data
from a single database, as back-end data).


Anyway, now that we know what three machines have authority for
balug.org we ask them for the SOA record, which includes the zonefile
S/N:

$ dig  -t soa  balug.org  @ns1.dreamhost.com  +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400
$ dig  -t soa  balug.org  @ns2.dreamhost.com  +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400
$ dig  -t soa  balug.org  @ns3.dreamhost.com  +short
ns1.dreamhost.com. hostmaster.dreamhost.com. 2008070600 16991 1800 1814400 14400

All of them report zonefile serial number "2008070600", which by
convention means that it was last updated on 2008 07 06 (July 6, 2008)
and was update #00 on that day.   The fact that the three nameservers
all report the _same_ S/N is encouraging, as it makes it very likely
that they are in proper communication.

Incidentally, one of the other SOA subfields, "ns1.dreamhost.com", is 
supposed to be where you declare the location of the master zonefile
copy.  However, the field value is strictly informational, and often 
(for many zones) lacks correct and useful data.  (As noted above, the 
very notion that there's necessarily a master server for each zone
doesn't necessarily apply.)

Last, there's some merit to actually asking each of the nameservers
about some record that's genuinely of interest, such as "www.balug.org"
or "lists.balug.org":

$ dig  www.balug.org  @ns1.dreamhost.com  +short
208.113.160.236
$ dig  www.balug.org  @ns2.dreamhost.com  +short
;; Truncated, retrying in TCP mode.
208.113.160.236
$ dig  www.balug.org  @ns3.dreamhost.com  +short
208.113.160.236

Notice that Dreamhost is being a bit of a screwup, concerning
"ns2.dreamhost.com":  It's not giving useful, complete responses to
UDP-based queries -- e.g., fragmenting them across multiple packets,
which UDP doesn't support -- so, dig went back and tried again using a
TCP-type query, which worked.

Trying again a moment later worked without switching to TCP, so it was
probably a temporary glitch.  However, this underscores why it's
important that you _not_ firewall off 53/tcp, when you're operating a
nameserver.

In an ideal world, I'd be in a position to know whether
"208.113.160.236" is really the correct IP for www.balug.org, which I'm
not, but someone actually running the domain (and especially its DNS) no
doubt would.

One last point about the SOA record:  "hostmaster.dreamhost.com." is
supposed to indicate the e-mail address of the administrative person
responsible for the contents of the master zonefile, expressed with the
"@" turned into a period on account of an antique software limitation
that was in place when the RFC was written.  So, the e-mail address is
"hostmaster at dreamhost.com".

It may or may not be in BALUG's interest for (theoretical) queries about
the zone's contents to go to Dreamhost's DNS administrator.  Does BALUG 
edit its own DNS?  If it does, it might wish to put someone else's
e-mail address there.

(Note:  However, hardly anyone ever uses that data, which is likewise an
informational record only, and often doesn't have a useful e-mail
address at all.  Most often, people will contact the Administrative,
Technical, or Registrant contacts from the WHOIS record, or just go
straight for the webmaster as indicated on the Web site (if
accessible).)




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sat Feb 28 19:28:42 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:28:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> Some of you may find this interesting. A Ubuntu based XFCE-customized
> distro for kids. http://www.qimo4kids.com/WhatIsQimo.aspx
>

Looking closer, it looks like Xubuntu with GCompris, Childsplay, and
etoys and the basics that come with Xubuntu. Oh, and a custom
wallpaper. See screenshots at
http://www.zooomr.com/photos/sameerverma/sets/44422/

I'd still recommend Sugar to a kid/parent but that's my bias :-)

cheers,
Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/

> Note: they are running on a Microsoft box :-) No dogfooding here?
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Sat Feb 28 19:40:22 2009
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:40:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7a0d56080902281940p645aa19ewaadc5c0c245dbeac@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting. Not to pick nits, but it says:

"Qimo is . . . [b]ased on the open source Ubuntu
Linux<http://www.ubuntu.com/>desktop . . . . "

Um, I seem to have missed that desktop environment.

Larry Cafiero

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> > Some of you may find this interesting. A Ubuntu based XFCE-customized
> > distro for kids. http://www.qimo4kids.com/WhatIsQimo.aspx
> >
>
> Looking closer, it looks like Xubuntu with GCompris, Childsplay, and
> etoys and the basics that come with Xubuntu. Oh, and a custom
> wallpaper. See screenshots at
> http://www.zooomr.com/photos/sameerverma/sets/44422/
>
> I'd still recommend Sugar to a kid/parent but that's my bias :-)
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
> > Note: they are running on a Microsoft box :-) No dogfooding here?
> >
> > cheers,
> > Sameer
> > --
> > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor of Information Systems
> > San Francisco State University
> > San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> > http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From nbs at sonic.net  Sat Feb 28 19:52:07 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:52:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080902281940p645aa19ewaadc5c0c245dbeac@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a0d56080902281940p645aa19ewaadc5c0c245dbeac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090301035207.GA24734@sonic.net>

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 07:40:22PM -0800, Larry Cafiero wrote:
>    Interesting. Not to pick nits, but it says:
> 
>    "Qimo is . . . [b]ased on the open source Ubuntu Linux desktop . . . . "
> 
>    Um, I seem to have missed that desktop environment.
> 

Somewhere in there they say it's XCFE, I believe.  (Hence Sameer mentioning
Xubuntu.)  I think that'd be a fine UI for kids.  I set up a very basic
KDE kiosk for a coffee shop once, and I think I used a simpler environment
than straight Kwin + Kicker panel + etc. etc.

Frankly, I see that they've got a little Tux Paint icon in the taskbar
on their screenshot, and that's good enough for me to link to them from
the "People who Distribute Tux Paint" section of tuxpaint.org's "Links" page. ;)

Of course, Dell Mini 9 ads with little Tux Paint logos on them are even
better.  Heh.

-bill!



From larry.cafiero at gmail.com  Sat Feb 28 19:56:09 2009
From: larry.cafiero at gmail.com (Larry Cafiero)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:56:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
In-Reply-To: <20090301035207.GA24734@sonic.net>
References: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a0d56080902281940p645aa19ewaadc5c0c245dbeac@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090301035207.GA24734@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <7a0d56080902281956n7cb4e34aja6f55c709a8c8ec@mail.gmail.com>

Saw that, too, Bill. What can you say -- Dell ads, Qimo . . . you're a star!

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:52 PM, Bill Kendrick <nbs at sonic.net> wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 07:40:22PM -0800, Larry Cafiero wrote:
> >    Interesting. Not to pick nits, but it says:
> >
> >    "Qimo is . . . [b]ased on the open source Ubuntu Linux desktop . . . .
> "
> >
> >    Um, I seem to have missed that desktop environment.
> >
>
> Somewhere in there they say it's XCFE, I believe.  (Hence Sameer mentioning
> Xubuntu.)  I think that'd be a fine UI for kids.  I set up a very basic
> KDE kiosk for a coffee shop once, and I think I used a simpler environment
> than straight Kwin + Kicker panel + etc. etc.
>
> Frankly, I see that they've got a little Tux Paint icon in the taskbar
> on their screenshot, and that's good enough for me to link to them from
> the "People who Distribute Tux Paint" section of tuxpaint.org's "Links"
> page. ;)
>
> Of course, Dell Mini 9 ads with little Tux Paint logos on them are even
> better.  Heh.
>
> -bill!
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Feb 28 20:32:59 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:32:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Mar 2 6:30 PM: Chapter 15
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0902282032500.6590@vellum.laroia.net>

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Mar 2 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 15

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book016.html

This week, we look making your own types of objects through "classes." If 
you've heard of object-oriented programming, this is it. You'll also see that 
the perils of copying "mutable" data, like lists and your own home-built 
classes, rear their ugly heads again.

Not a very long chapter, but something novel! Note that in Exercise 4, it 
should be

>>> from TurtleWorld import World

not

>>> from World import World

(Thanks to Alex Kleider for noticing this!) (Hopefully I transcribed the 
correction properly.)

IF YOU ARE NEW

Remember that the point of the class is to help you answer questions you have. 
To that end, *read Chapter 15* so that you can make sense of the general class 
discussion.

In addition, work forward in the text starting with chapter 1. I *urge* you to 
send me your exercises for any chapters; I can provide good feedback. Focus on 
the exercises for Chapter 15 so that we can have a coherent conversation in 
class, and feel free to ask me questions about earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to programming, and 
I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun conversation with 
people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of whom (hopefully all!) have 
done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on the 
sf-lug list (since that's where this all started).

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	Why did the lone ranger kill Tonto?
A:	He found out what "kimosabe" really means.



From bliss at sfo.com  Sun Mar  1 11:44:34 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 11:44:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Where is everyone?
Message-ID: <49AAE5A2.7010708@sfo.com>


    11:40 at the Cafe Euro and no other members in sight.  Came early to 
allow plenty of
time for the chore of getting the Inspiron online.

    Later
    Bobbie



From bliss at sfo.com  Sun Mar  1 13:31:57 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 13:31:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Where is everyone?
In-Reply-To: <144563.9164.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <144563.9164.qm@web35602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49AAFECD.40904@sfo.com>

John F. Strazzarino wrote:
> Sorry Bobbie,
>
> I've temporarily gone to the 'other side' running Windows 7.  
>
> John
>
>
>   

    Unlike some purists I think running *any* OS on any hardware is
its own punishment.
> --- On Sun, 3/1/09, Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss at sfo.com>
>> Subject: [sf-lug] Where is everyone?
>> To: "SF-LUG" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
>> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 11:44 AM
>> 11:40 at the Cafe Euro and no other members in sight.  Came
>> early to allow plenty of
>> time for the chore of getting the Inspiron online.
>>
>>     Later
>>     Bobbie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
    later
    Bobbie



From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Sun Mar  1 15:12:23 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 15:12:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1235878882.19104.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.27.1235878882.19104.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090301151223.47964wbrmsm1c0e8@webmail.rawbw.com>

DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org.

Rick, thanks for your excellent points, commentary, analysis, etc.

Some random points I'm inclined to add (for additional information,
clarification, exceptions (hey - us nerds love our exceptional and edge
cases :-> ... after all, that's where much of the interesting stuff
happens anyway (like pretty good stuff breaks, and the really good stuff
keeps working - or at least fails gracefully or in a "principle of least
surprise" manner if it must fail))).

> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:05:09 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fixed: Re: DNS: sf-lug.com. "down": NS
>       208.96.15.252   "broken"
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
>
>> Fixed, details towards the tail end of:
>> http://www.sf-lug.com/log.txt
>
> Getting back to Michael's checks, there remained point #2, zone
> transfers, which he checked indirectly, as follows:
>
>> $ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short
>> 208.96.15.252
>> $ dig @198.144.195.186 -t A sf-lug.com. +short +tcp
>> 208.96.15.252
>> $
>
> (As a reminder, IP "198.144.195.186" is the secondary = slave
> nameserver for domain sf-lug.com, _my_ nameserver.)

If I'm not mistaken, since >= BIND 8, the current terminology is
master/slave ... primary/secondary was used for older versions of BIND.
ISC's use of master/slave may not have been the most PC (Politically
Correct) choice (but that's a whole other topic) but probably made for
a most logical choice (short, descriptive, relatively unambiguous,
commonly used and understood - including common use in technical
constructs), and perhaps unlike primary/secondary, master/slave also
works more logically for chaining relationships - e.g. a DNS server -
even for the same zone, can be both a master (to downstream slave(s)),
and a slave (to upstream master(s)) - primary/secondary doesn't seem to
fit quite as smoothly in a chaining construct (particularly if one
wants to avoid the messiness of adding tertiary, etc. into
descriptions, when in each individual comparative case, one generally
only needs to talk about the relationship between a pair of servers).

Why I jumped to checking queries against the slave - mostly a judgement
call and guestimate on efficient next step in troubleshooting (or
checking/confirming that all was well again).  Based on the evidence to
that point, I was guestimating that there had been effectively single
problem on sf-lug.com. (initialization wasn't configured to (re)start
BIND for sf-lug.com. master upon system (re)boot), and that I'd
corrected it (fixed that configuration big and (re)started BIND), and
things should be working from there - so I mostly just jumped to
checking results - the far end of the chain - are master and slave
working properly from the Internet - in the context of this particular
problem (e.g. evidence was that slave had expired the zone and had no
other master to pull the zone from), if all looked good at the results
end of things, I was going to presume we were essentially done.  Had
that not been the case (e.g. slave still not answering DNS for
sf-lug.com. even after waiting master zone retry of 3600 (1 hour)), I
would have dug further ... and looking at evidence for zone transfers,
notifies, and/or attempts thereof would have been a relatively logical
place to jump in (basic divide and conquer troubleshooting).

> Michael verified that the slave nameserver, likewise, is now able to
> resolve "sf-lug.com", using both UDP and TCP query types.  This
> _indirectly_ confirms that the slave must have successfully pulled down
> a fresh copy of the zone from the master recently, because (as we know
> from upthread), as of yesterday the slave had expired out the copy of
> the data it had on file from a couple of weeks ago, its Time to Live
> (TTL) having expired without any zone transfers occurring to refresh the
> data from the master.
>
> Michael could have checked _directly_ for that zone transfer by looking
> in the master server's /var/log/messages file, where he'd have seen the
> master sending out a NOTIFY signal (the "Hey, slave nameservers, there's
> a zone being freshly loaded (e.g., because the DNS daemon just started)
> or revised for you to pick up" notice that masters send to slaves, as
> part of the DNS protocols), and then the record of 198.144.195.186
> pulling down the zone.
>
> Checking the slave nameserver's ability to answer queries is good;
> checking for the zone transfer's occurrence directly is also good.

Yup, ... all good :-)
Key thing is to at least be sure and include checking end results -
yes, we think we fixed it - that's good ... but ... does it actually
*work*? ... in this case I jumped a bit ahead to look at the end pieces
first (and made some reasonable presumptions on the rest based upon
those results and the scenario and evidence at hand).  In a rather
different scenario (e.g. setting up new DNS across and through multiple
responsible entities) I'd likely be more inclined to start from the
head (primary* master), and test flow along the way, to make sure each
piece that should be working is ... all the way through out to desired
and expected end results (clients being able to resolve what they
should and from where they should, and updates work all the way through
the chain).
* in this case, by "primary master" I mean the server which is itself
master for the applicable zone(s), and not slave to some other server
for that(/those) zone(s).

> Anyway, I should add:  Just two nameservers is a bad idea.  Best
> practices per the RFCs is _minimum_ three recommended, maximum seven.

Yes, three or more (up to appropriate reasonable limit) is better.
Preferably, they should be geographically separated, and reasonably
separated (avoiding single points of failure) network-wise also ... at
least to the extent reasonably feasible.

Maximum ... well, depends, in certain cases that's as high as, but no
higher than 13.  But too many is quite bad.  The "certain cases" of 13,
is very short domain name ... like root servers or com., or a rather to
quite short TLD (museum. may be too long for 13).  That optimal maximum
is the most that are guaranteed to fit within a single UDP reply packet
without truncation.  For really long domain names, seven may be too
many.  So, ... what really bad happens with too many?  The complete DNS
response isn't guaranteed to all fit within a single UDP packet.  In a
case where it does all fit in a UDP packet, client typically sends a
UDP packet for the query, and receives a UDP packet with the complete
answer and without any truncation - pretty efficient.  When it isn't
guaranteed to fit, things get messy - the DNS server puts in what it
can (what it deems most important), and sets a flag indicating the
response is truncated, and sends that UDP packet.  The client, upon
seeing the truncation flag then reissues the query, using TCP ... now,
with TCP, there's a 3-way handshake just to set up the connection, ...
then the query, and then packet(s) containing the complete response,
... and then the tearing down of the TCP connection ... all *much* more
overhead for both client, server, and also network bits between.

To illustrate a bit more, here's example I wrote up earlier this month
to help explain to some coworkers (with some very slight <snip>page,
and a bit of reformatting to fold some longer lines) ... I also add a
wee bit more example/comment:

< From: Michael Paoli
< Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:09 PM
< To: <snip>
< Cc: <snip>
< Subject: Informational: RE: DNS: UDP & TCP (why it needs both, when it
< generally uses which, etc.)
<
< FYI, in case y'all are curious, ... here's case where DNS necessarily
< uses TCP in dealing with a query/response.
<
< Oh, ... and let's not forget also, those extra trips over <snip> ...for
< TCP, it's also a 3-way handshake just to get started - so that's several
< packets bouncing back and forth just to establish the connection -
< before that connection can actually be used to do useful work.  DNS
< mostly uses UDP where it can for short queries/replies ... but it can't
< always use UDP.
<
< Anyway, in (DNS) resolving www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< (http://forallthewaysyoucare.com/ redirects to
< http://www.forallthewaysyoucare.com/) ... by default things start with
< UDP queries, and responses, ... but if the response doesn't fit within
< one single UDP packet, the responding server just sends one UDP packet
< to the requesting client - but with a bit flag set indicating the result
< was truncated (and it puts what it considers the most important of the
< partial information in that UDP packet).  Under most normal
< circumstances, the DNS resolver client then reissues the query - but
< using TCP this time - so that it can then get the complete response (TCP
< is connection-oriented stream protocol, so arbitrarily large data can be
< sent back - this is also why DNS uses TCP for zone transfers - they
< almost always involve much larger set of data than typical DNS
< query/reply).  So, ... in resolving www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.,
< jumping fairly far into the process, client (or intermediary server)
< asks one of these IPs (they are the IPs of the authoritative nameservers
< for the domain forallthewaysyoucare.com.):
< 216.21.231.10 dns010.a.register.com.
< 216.21.232.10 dns010.b.register.com.
< 216.21.235.10 dns010.c.register.com.
< 216.21.236.10 dns010.d.register.com.
< this question: www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.  IN      A
< i.e. what is(/are) the A record(s) for www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< The responding server provides the answer (if it has it or is willing
< and able to give it), flag bit to indicate if it's authoritative or not
< ... and it also includes other data, e.g.  "authority" data and
< "additional" data - mostly it's just trying to be helpful here, handing
< out information that's also likely to be needed (like, oh, you asked for
< an A record, well, there's just a CNAME for that ... but by the way, I
< also happen to have the authority information for the domain that CNAME
< is in and the A records for those NS servers) ... so there may be slight
< to significant amount of additional data provided by the server - in
< this case it's a fair amount - and more than fits in a UDP reply.  If we
< ask, using dig, it informs us that the (UDP) result was
< malformed/truncated - and it then (by default) tries again with TCP.  If
< we tweak the options on dig a bit, we can tell it to only use UDP, and
< not retry, ... or just start with and use TCP.
<
< Here we have default use of dig - it gets us all the information - after
< it retries with TCP, telling us it had issues with UDP:
< $ 2>&1 dig @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< ;; Warning: Message parser reports malformed message packet.
< ;; Truncated, retrying in TCP mode.
<
< ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< ;; global options:  printcmd
< ;; Got answer:
< ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 21789
< ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 13
<
< ;; QUESTION SECTION:
< ;www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.  IN      A
<
< ;; ANSWER SECTION:
< www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. 14400 IN  CNAME
< forallthewaysyoucare.com.awarenessnetworks.com.edgesuite.net.
<
< ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
< .                       518400  IN      NS      a.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      b.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      c.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      d.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      e.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      f.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      g.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      h.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      i.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      j.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      k.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      l.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      m.root-servers.net.
<
< ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
< a.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       198.41.0.4
< b.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.228.79.201
< c.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.33.4.12
< d.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.8.10.90
< e.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.203.230.10
< f.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.5.5.241
< g.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.112.36.4
< h.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.63.2.53
< i.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.36.148.17
< j.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.58.128.30
< k.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       193.0.14.129
< l.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       198.32.64.12
< m.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       202.12.27.33
<
< ;; Query time: 220 msec
< ;; SERVER: 216.21.232.10#53(216.21.232.10)
< ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 12 18:45:38 2009
< ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 536
<
< $
<
< Here's the same, but only using UDP - note that it dropped 2 of 13 of
< the "additional" records (all of which can be seen above):
< $ 2>&1 dig @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. +ignore
< ;; Warning: Message parser reports malformed message packet.
<
< ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< +ignore
< ;; global options:  printcmd
< ;; Got answer:
< ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 6677
< ;; flags: qr aa tc rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL:
< 13
<
< ;; QUESTION SECTION:
< ;www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.  IN      A
<
< ;; ANSWER SECTION:
< www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. 14400 IN  CNAME
< forallthewaysyoucare.com.awarenessnetworks.com.edgesuite.net.
<
< ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
< .                       518400  IN      NS      a.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      b.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      c.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      d.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      e.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      f.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      g.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      h.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      i.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      j.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      k.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      l.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      m.root-servers.net.
<
< ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
< a.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       198.41.0.4
< b.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.228.79.201
< c.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.33.4.12
< d.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.8.10.90
< e.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.203.230.10
< f.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.5.5.241
< g.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.112.36.4
< h.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.63.2.53
< i.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.36.148.17
< j.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.58.128.30
< k.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       193.0.14.129
<
< ;; Query time: 112 msec
< ;; SERVER: 216.21.232.10#53(216.21.232.10)
< ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 12 18:47:11 2009
< ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 512
<
< $
<
<
< And here's example, jumping straight to TCP to start with (notice it's
< all there, and no complaints about malformed or truncated):

I'd typically use +tcp, here, but instead I used +vc, as that also works
on some older dig clients within the environment I was discussing, that
don't support the +tcp option.

< $ 2>&1 dig @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. +vc
<
< ; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @216.21.232.10 -t A www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.
< +vc
< ;; global options:  printcmd
< ;; Got answer:
< ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 48256
< ;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 13, ADDITIONAL: 13
<
< ;; QUESTION SECTION:
< ;www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.  IN      A
<
< ;; ANSWER SECTION:
< www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. 14400 IN  CNAME
< forallthewaysyoucare.com.awarenessnetworks.com.edgesuite.net.
<
< ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
< .                       518400  IN      NS      a.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      b.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      c.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      d.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      e.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      f.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      g.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      h.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      i.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      j.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      k.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      l.root-servers.net.
< .                       518400  IN      NS      m.root-servers.net.
<
< ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
< a.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       198.41.0.4
< b.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.228.79.201
< c.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.33.4.12
< d.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.8.10.90
< e.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.203.230.10
< f.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.5.5.241
< g.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.112.36.4
< h.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       128.63.2.53
< i.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.36.148.17
< j.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       192.58.128.30
< k.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       193.0.14.129
< l.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       198.32.64.12
< m.root-servers.net.     3600000 IN      A       202.12.27.33
<
< ;; Query time: 219 msec
< ;; SERVER: 216.21.232.10#53(216.21.232.10)
< ;; WHEN: Thu Feb 12 18:49:33 2009
< ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 536
<
< $

Anyway, the above example set isn't for NS record (or that and related
A records), but similar applies for NS ... in terms of what is/isn't
"too many" NS servers.  If we look for NS (and are also interested in A
records) for com., and asking an authoritative com. NS, we see:

$ dig @192.41.162.30 -t NS com.

; <<>> DiG 9.2.4 <<>> @192.41.162.30 -t NS com.
;; global options:  printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 8795
;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 15

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;com.                           IN      NS

;; ANSWER SECTION:
com.                    172800  IN      NS      a.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      d.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      f.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      k.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      m.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      h.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      g.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      l.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      e.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      b.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      c.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      i.gtld-servers.net.
com.                    172800  IN      NS      j.gtld-servers.net.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
a.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.5.6.30
a.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      AAAA    2001:503:a83e::2:30
d.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.31.80.30
f.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.35.51.30
k.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.52.178.30
m.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.55.83.30
h.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.54.112.30
g.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.42.93.30
l.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.41.162.30
e.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.12.94.30
b.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.33.14.30
b.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      AAAA    2001:503:231d::2:30
c.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.26.92.30
i.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.43.172.30
j.gtld-servers.net.     172800  IN      A       192.48.79.30

;; Query time: 97 msec
;; SERVER: 192.41.162.30#53(192.41.162.30)
;; WHEN: Sun Mar  1 12:44:13 2009
;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 509

$
Well, ... okay, the rules of the game are getting slightly more complex
with IPv6 also in the picture.  But back in ye ancient history (okay,
not too many years back), when . and com. weren't yet doing IPv6, 13
was the maximum NS servers that would all be guaranteed to fit in a
typical DNS NS UDP reply - hence they had (and actually still do have)
13 nameservers.  If one has a really long domain, perhaps even seven
might possibly be "too many" nameservers ... but for the more typical
cases, minimum of 3, maximum of 7 would be the general best practice.

In the example further above, with www.forallthewaysyoucare.com., we
have as answer, the rather lengthy:
www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. 14400 IN  CNAME
forallthewaysyoucare.com.awarenessnetworks.com.edgesuite.net.
plus the reply also includes the query itself, which is also fairly
long:
www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. IN A
But the server also wants to try and be helpful, and since the CNAME is
to a different domain entirely, it wants to also tell us about those NS
records, and the corresponding A records for those.  Now, that NS and A
record data itself, would fit in a single UDP packet without
truncation, but with the not-so-short:
www.forallthewaysyoucare.com. 14400 IN  CNAME
forallthewaysyoucare.com.awarenessnetworks.com.edgesuite.net.
and query:
www.forallthewaysyoucare.com.IN A
also wanting to be in that UDP reply packet, it can't all fit, so some
of that (the less critical listing of all the A records for the NS
servers) is truncated.

In that particular case, we not only had UDP-->TCP promotion, ... and
that all worked fine, but we also had a slightly surprising bit of
firewall excitement.  Turns out a firewall was also looking at the
contents of the UDP packet, and analyzing the contents for being nice
and DNS picture perfect and fine and safe, deciding it didn't like
something about the packet, and was dropping the response packet
entirely.  So we had a slightly funky intermittent bit of DNS failure
... as things worked fine once the data made it through somehow and was
cached behind the firewall (e.g. if one asked independently for the
various constituent components), but was mostly failing in general for
that particular lookup.

Another bit on DNS NS and redundancy, etc.  Once upon a time, a single
IP was (almost always, if not always) a single NS server, ... that's no
longer necessarily the case.  In many cases, a single IP can have
behind it highly redundant routing, multiple redundant ISPs, multiple,
and geographically distributed and highly available redundant / load
balancing servers.  So, yes, minimum of 3 nameservers is still best
practice, ... but that's not necessarily 3 IPs ... single IP can have
many nameservers behind it.  Note that some registrars still require 3
IPs minimum, and that at least one, if not all of them, be on distinct
networks.  Other registrars only require a minimum of two IPs, and they
needn't be on distinct subnets/networks ... not sure but there may be
some registrars that will allow as little as just one IP.

> Admittedly, sf-lug.com would not have been saved from downtime by a
> second slave, given that y'all failed to notice for a couple of week
> your master nameserver being offline, but achieving at least the
> recommended level of redundancy will save you from most other types of
> outages.
>
> I can offer you SVLUG's nameserver as a second slave.  NS1.SVLUG.ORG, IP
> 64.62.190.98.  Just add it to ns1.sf-lug.com's allowed-transfer ACL in
> /etc/bind/named.conf, restart BIND9, and let me know.  I'll set up slave
> nameservice and confirm that it can pull down zones and answer quereies,
> and you then add it to the authoritative list.

For running production BIND, generally much safer to reload (and then
inspect logs for errors, and test to confirm), than restart.  In most
cases with a reload, if there's a configuration error, things won't
grind to a screeching halt - but BIND will generally continue to serve
older data that was good before configuration booboo was made.  In the
case of restart with configuration error(s), BIND is rather
unforgiving, typically either refusing to start entirely, or refusing
to serve data for zones with configuration errors.

> You really should not keep trying to get by with only two.  Bad idea.
> Really.

Jim - if you're interested, let me know - I can also point you at an
excellent free resource for DNS slave that I found when I was
researching such for BALUG.  Also, since I believe there are some
physical moves and IP reassignments planned for sometime in the future
for the sf-lug.com. box, it might be simpler to defer adding slave(s)
until master IP is quite long-term stabilized (changing master IP is a
bit of work for all the slaves of that master ... generally nice to
make things as easy as feasible for one's slaves - particularly if
that's free donated services).  BALUG could probably *also* offer some
DNS slave services ... but we can probably find you something even
higher availability than the BALUG host I'd have in mind for that.

> Ideally, you should (and, well, I should, too) also set up a little
> cronjob, using "dig" to query the master and all slaves for the SOA
> record, and then parsing out the zonefile S/N using awk and making sure
> all nameservers are reporting the same value -- and sending admins
> e-mail if any of the machines isn't serving up data or isn't up-to-date.
> Running that daily would more than suffice.  Shouldn't be difficult.
>
> Why?  Because, as one learns the hard way, the guy who promised to do
> secondary nameservice for you a year ago will often forget, shut it off,
> and not bother to tell you.

Well, really, ideally :-) SF-LUG (and BALUG) should have appropriate
monitoring set up ... and much of that monitoring should exist on
systems *other* than those they're monitoring (so, that, e.g., if
SF-LUG system A no longer has, say it's web or DNS or email service
available to the Internet, some other system can report on that ...
even if system A has lost all connectivity to The Internet).  Anyway,
that would be for monitoring Internet services.  That doesn't mean one
shouldn't *also* have monitoring on the system itself (e.g. security
and other items that may be better monitored locally).  On the local
monitoring bit, the reporting system may or may not be local (e.g. the
system that issues the alerts may be a distinct system).

> Actually, in fact, that aforementioned cronjob, to make it _really_
> useful, would also query either "whois" or the NS records inside the
> parent zone's records (in this case, the .com TLD zone's
> nameservers[1]), to find out whether the master and slaves are still
> authoritative.  Because the other mishap that keeps occurring is:  A
> year ago, you agreed to do secondary for a friend's domain, and have
> been doing it faithfully.  One day, it somehow occurs to you to reverify
> that your secondary service is still authoritative, and suddenly it's
> not:  You've been doing secondary pointlessly for an unknown number of
> months, because the bozo ceased using your service and failed to mention
> that fact to you.

Yes, good to monitor registry bits ... but I'd treat that as a rather
distinct matter, as compared to DNS.  Sure, ... there's a bit of
overlap, ... but it can be the case that registry data (as reported by
whois) is correct, yet the registry DNS delegation isn't correct (may
not be common, but thus far I've seen it once where a TLD registry had
the nameservers correct in whois data, but that data didn't match
behavior of the authoritative nameservers ... even after much more than
sufficient time for any updating of the authoritative nameservers).

> Last, Jim, have you considered graduating to something better than
> BIND9?  Seriously.  It's a dreadful piece of code:  slow, RAM-grabbing,
> overfeatured, and with a questionable security model.  It's no longer as
> scandalously buggy as BIND8 was, having gone through a total rewrite,
> but it's still scandalously bad.

Well, opinions on BIND9 will vary :-) ... but I certainly agree with at
least many of Rick's points about it.

> I realise you're, in part, trying to teach aspiring sysadmins how to
> wrangle the same terrible software they're likely to encounter in
> industry, but, now that you've done that for a while and learned the
> ropes, maybe you're ready to switch to something that doesn't suck.
>
> If ns1.sf-lug.com is doing only authoritative service, e.g., the
> machine's /etc/resolv.conf doesn't point to it for general ("recursive")
> nameservice, then look no further than NSD.  I can send you an example
> setup, as it's what we use on NS1.SVLUG.ORG.

At quick glance that would look rather feasible for the sf-lug.com. box:
$ hostname && stat /etc/resolv.conf | grep '^[MC]'
sf-lug
Modify: 2006-12-07 12:12:16.000000000 -0800
Change: 2006-12-07 12:12:16.000000000 -0800
$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
nameserver 64.81.79.2
nameserver 216.93.160.16
nameserver 216.93.170.17
search localdomain
$
On the other hand, there may be other factors to consider - e.g.: does
that distribution have an NSD package?  Teaching/training aspects of the
sf-lug.com. box?

> Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:56:46 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] balug.org DNS (was: sf-lug.com web site
>       accessibility)
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> As an additional exercise, I'll now show you how I might check out
> whether balug.org DNS is OK.  This is something _anyone_ can do,
> even MS-Windows sufferers.  (There's a free-of-charge download of
> "whois" and "dig" programs in MS-Windows executable format on the Web.)

Perfectly valid analysis of the basic balug.org. and www.balug.org.
bits.  But as I alluded to earlier
(http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2009q1/006428.html)
the full picture of DNS for balug.org. gets a fair bit more complex ...
most notably we have various transition strategies in place ... so
we're still rather in a "between" state, ... though Rick well covered
the most noteworthy and visible "production" bits.

If one dig(1)s (okay, pun wasn't initially intended, but boy it works
... especially when adding (1)) a bit deeper, one may find things fairly
interesting in/around, oh, ... say around balug.org. and new.balug.org. and
@ns1.balug.org.
@ns1.everydns.net.
@ns2.everydns.net.
@ns3.everydns.net.
@ns4.everydns.net.
@150.135.84.2
As to why :-) most of that is very well detailed in the applicable
named*.conf file and master zone files (and the RCS files, if one wants
to also know how we got to present state).  A fair bit of higher level
bits and strategies, etc., have been earlier covered on the BALUG
"admin" list (http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-admin-balug.org),
but the full DNS details (and most or all of their "why") are to be
found in the BALUG DNS configuration files on ns1.balug.org.

Other random note: everydns.net. - yeah, free DNS service and all that,
... but it's rather funky, so I wouldn't generally recommend it unless
one is well aware of its limitations and funkiness, and willing to put
up with them (in the case of BALUG it's "good enough" for at least
parts of a transitional strategy - we have other longer term plans;
also one advantage to everydns.net - one can reconfigure it to repoint
to different master(s), without need to bother a human administrator of
the slave(s) - that can be advantageous for a free service -
particularly if one anticipates doing one or more master IP transitions
in the future.).




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Mar  2 00:40:37 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 00:40:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] qimo
In-Reply-To: <7a0d56080902281956n7cb4e34aja6f55c709a8c8ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70902280950s3e434bdcxcfa316c9db45ef77@mail.gmail.com>
	<5fb387c70902281928v523d361p8111994aae861ed1@mail.gmail.com>
	<7a0d56080902281940p645aa19ewaadc5c0c245dbeac@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090301035207.GA24734@sonic.net>
	<7a0d56080902281956n7cb4e34aja6f55c709a8c8ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090302084037.GA4774@sonic.net>

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 07:56:09PM -0800, Larry Cafiero wrote:
>    Saw that, too, Bill. What can you say -- Dell ads, Qimo . . . you're a
>    star!

Better yet, just today I was entertaining my baby son by playing some
SuperTuxKart, and picked one of the race-track style tracks, and as I
was driving along, I saw billboards advertising Tux Paint!  :)

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  2 02:15:50 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:15:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org.
In-Reply-To: <20090301151223.47964wbrmsm1c0e8@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.27.1235878882.19104.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090301151223.47964wbrmsm1c0e8@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090302101550.GL24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> If I'm not mistaken, since >= BIND 8, the current terminology is
> master/slave ... primary/secondary was used for older versions of BIND.

It is, but (1) I am supremely indifferent to ISC's choice of jargon du
jour, (2) I personally found the earlier terminology much clearer, and
(3) within the context of explanations to newcomers, I find using _both_
to be clearer still.

So, yes, I knew extremely well what ISC says and doesn't say, these
days, and deliberately ignored that.


> and perhaps unlike primary/secondary, master/slave also works more
> logically for chaining relationships - e.g. a DNS server - even for
> the same zone, can be both a master (to downstream slave(s)), and a
> slave (to upstream master(s)) - primary/secondary doesn't seem to fit
> quite as smoothly in a chaining construct....

Sure it does.  The term fits perfectly well as a role designation concerning 
how one nameserver communicates with another concerning a particular
zone.  Think about it.


> (particularly if one wants to avoid the messiness of adding tertiary,
> etc.

But doing that would be dumb.  Thus, irrelevant objection.


> one generally only needs to talk about the relationship between a pair
> of servers).

Which is exactly why primary / secondary is fine, and the objection of
"but then you'd need to talk about tertiary, etc." is rubbish.

> Why I jumped to checking queries against the slave 

Yeah, no problem there.  Actually, just about any starting point in
finding the problem is fine; you just have to proceed systematically
from there.  That's why you need to make sure you know where diagnostic
"dig" queries _go_ (when dealing with situations like the recent one),
rather than just omitting the "@" parameter and hoping for the best.


> Key thing is to at least be sure and include checking end results -
> yes, we think we fixed it - that's good ... but ... does it actually
> *work*?

Exactly!

Something Jim Dennis talks about, in his lectures on system
administration, is that the concepts of unit testing from extreme
programming are exactly what a sysadmin needs, to do each job right the
first time.  That is, you need to include in the planning and execution
of each task the thinking out and execution of a suitable means to test
the thing you're doing.  Testing should be _integral_ to each task.

I used to tell my staff at Linuxcare a variation on that concept:  I'd
tell them "Your task isn't done until it's tested."  If the task was to
set up a piece of software, then the task isn't done until you've made
that software perform its function.  If the task includes making
software start at boot time, then you need to schedule a reboot to test
your assumption that everything will work OK during startup.  (Even on
production servers, you can work in a planned reboot _sometime_.  It's
better than finding out only during _unplanned_ reboots whether startup
is OK.)



> Yes, three or more (up to appropriate reasonable limit) is better.

It's not just "better"; it's RFC-recommended best practices.  RFC 2182
section 5:

   The DNS specification and domain name registration rules require at
   least two servers for every zone.  That is, usually, the primary and
   one secondary.  While two, carefully placed, are often sufficient,
   occasions where two are insufficient are frequent enough that we
   advise the use of more than two listed servers.  Various problems can
   cause a server to be unavailable for extended periods - during such a
   period, a zone with only two listed servers is actually running with
   just one.  Since any server may occasionally be unavailable, for all
   kinds of reasons, this zone is likely, at times, to have no
   functional servers at all.
   [...]
   It is recommended that three servers be provided for most
   organisation level zones, with at least one which must be well
   removed from the others.


> Maximum ... well, depends, in certain cases that's as high as, but no
> higher than 13.

"As high as"?  Fsck no.

You can have big problems from having anywhere near that many
nameservers, and seven is the practical limit -- and the _recommended_
limit -- for almost all situations.  (The root nameservers are an
anomalous case, for reasons I'd rather not get into.)


> So, ... what really bad happens with too many?  The complete DNS
> response isn't guaranteed to all fit within a single UDP packet.

That is only the beginning of the problems, and the simplest and most
mechanistic problem, one is likely to have.  Do I _really_ need to get
into that?


> > I can offer you SVLUG's nameserver as a second slave.  NS1.SVLUG.ORG, IP
> > 64.62.190.98.  Just add it to ns1.sf-lug.com's allowed-transfer ACL in
> > /etc/bind/named.conf, restart BIND9, and let me know.  I'll set up slave
> > nameservice and confirm that it can pull down zones and answer quereies,
> > and you then add it to the authoritative list.
> 
> For running production BIND, generally much safer to reload (and then
> inspect logs for errors, and test to confirm), than restart.

It's entirely and spectacularly irrelevant to my point whether Jim, in
the previously discussed situation, does "rndc reload" or "service named
restart".  I.e., you are wandering off onto a typical
obsessive-compulsive geek irrelevancy.  However, that being said, in
Jim's shoes, if I had a fatal configuration error within that pice of
cr__ BIND9's conffiles, I'd much rather know sooner than later.


> Jim - if you're interested, let me know - I can also point you at an
> excellent free resource for DNS slave that I found when I was
> researching such for BALUG.

I hope you're not yet another person pushing EveryDNS, with its broken
djbware-based implementation that doesn't support AXFR and ignores
NOTIFY.

I respect Ulevitch and crew, but losing the ability to have timely
updates to seconaries is a pretty sad disadvantage, especially given
that any number of people in the Valley will be glad to give you
more-competent secondary service for free, too.


> Well, really, ideally :-) SF-LUG (and BALUG) should have appropriate
> monitoring set up ... and much of that monitoring should exist on
> systems *other* than those they're monitoring....

Thank you, Captain Obvious.  ;->


> Yes, good to monitor registry bits ... but I'd treat that as a rather
> distinct matter, as compared to DNS.

Um, excuse me?  The identity of which IPs are authoritative is "a
distinct matter from DNS"?  In what universe?


> but thus far I've seen it once where a TLD registry had
> the nameservers correct in whois data, but that data didn't match
> behavior of the authoritative nameservers 

That's why you check the glue records in the parent zone, genius.

> Well, opinions on BIND9 will vary :-) ... but I certainly agree with at
> least many of Rick's points about it.

_Many_?  Are you prepared to seriously assert that...

o BIND9 is fast?
o BIND9 is RAM-thrifty?
o BIND9 is sveltely featured?
o That running a single monolithic binary for all of the several distinct
  roles of a security-sensitive network daemon is a good security model?

If not -- and I sincerely hope not -- then you and I are in complete
agreement, on that matter.


> On the other hand, there may be other factors to consider - e.g.: does
> that distribution have an NSD package?

Why does nobody bother to do simple Web-searching?
Here's the RHEL-oriented .spec file, which will do great on CentOS:
http://www.nlnetlabs.nl/svn/nsd/trunk/contrib/nsd.spec
And rpmbuild is your friend:
http://linuxhacks.org/tutorials/jakes_rpm_build_tutorial.php
Actually, the .spec file is included _inside_ the souurce tarball
in its "contrib" directory, which also has a README file that says:

   nsd.spec: a rpm specfile to generate binary and source rpms. 
    Put the source tarball in  /usr/src/redhat/SOURCES. Then 
          rpmbuild -ba nsd.spec

Build requirements are the usual gcc, yacc, autoconf, make, OpenSSL
unless you disable TSIG support.  I can't remember if there's anything
else, but there's not much if there is.


> Teaching/training aspects of the sf-lug.com. box?

Yeah, God forbid that people might go a tiny bit out of their way to
learn something _better_ than the same old junk.  Here's
/srv/site-docs/nsd-instructions on SVLUG's Web/DNS server, the docs for
the SVLUG sysadmin team:



  NSD is an authoritative-only DNS nameserver written from scratch by the 
  people who run the .nl (Netherlands) top-level domain.  It does not
  provide recursive service, so the machine on which it runs needs to have 
  access to a full-service nameserver somewhere, via reference in 
  /etc/resolv.conf.

  NSD's advantages are high speed, small RAM footprint, and high security.
  It does support IXFR/AXFR (etc.) zone transfers, and thus is fully usable
  for both master and slave DNS service.

  Although it uses the same zonefile format that BIND8/BIND9 does, it achieves 
  much higher performance, in part by using a hashed binary database.  
  Accordingly, whenever you modify one of its zonefiles, you must "compile" it 
  using the "zonec" compiler utility.

  Runtime control of NSD is best asserted using the "nsdc" utility, whose syntax
  and features are modeled on those of BIND's "rndc" utility.  


  NSD's main configuration file is /etc/nsd/nsd.zones , which has details 
  one zone per line, and has ";"-delimited header comments describing the 
  syntax for master ("primary") records, which typically feature a "notify" 
  IP list; and slave ("secondary") records, which feature a "masters" IP list.
  Standard location for zonefiles is subdirectories "primary" and
  "secondary".  

  Your maintenance sequence will typically be like this:

  1.  "cd /etc/nsd/primary"
  2.  Edit svlug.org.zone or whatever in your choice of text editor.  Don't
      forget to increment the S/N value!
  3.  "cd .."
  4.  "zonec -v nsd.zones"  This compiles the zone revision.
  5.  nsdc restart
  6.  Check your work, by doing "dig -t a www.svlug.org @ns1.svlug.org".
      (Substitute an appropriate reference record for "-t a www.svlug.org"
      to reflect whatever you worked on.)  It's a good idea to at least 
      run "dig -t soa svlug.org @ns1.svlug.org" to verify that your S/N 
      update is reflected in actual DNS return values.

  Further information on NSD is at this article:
  http://hardware.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/1618219&tid=65





> If one dig(1)s (okay, pun wasn't initially intended, but boy it works
> ... especially when adding (1)) a bit deeper, one may find things fairly
> interesting in/around, oh, ... say around balug.org. and new.balug.org. and
> @ns1.balug.org.
> @ns1.everydns.net.
> @ns2.everydns.net.
> @ns3.everydns.net.
> @ns4.everydns.net.
> @150.135.84.2

Ugh.  Broken EveryDNS secondary nameservice.  Ignores NOTIFY, doesn't do
AXFR.  Avoid.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  2 03:03:47 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 03:03:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org.
In-Reply-To: <20090302101550.GL24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.27.1235878882.19104.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090301151223.47964wbrmsm1c0e8@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090302101550.GL24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090302110347.GM24345@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

>   Further information on NSD is at this article:
>   http://hardware.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/06/28/1618219&tid=65
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Looks line Fintronics^W VA Research^W^W VA Linux Systems^W^W^W VA
Software ^W^W Sourceforge, Inc. (or whatever they're called, this week) 
silently deleted Newsforge from the Internet.  Gone.  Pffft.  Mechuleh.
Kaput.  However, I've re-found the referenced article at another VA
$WHATEVER site:

http://www.linux.com/feature/46016

I've just updated the SVLUG site-docs.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  2 12:47:16 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:47:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] balug.org DNS (was: sf-lug.com web site accessibility)
In-Reply-To: <20090301005646.GH24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20090228033934.16966r0vq3vc3kg8@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090301005646.GH24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090302204714.GA18899@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

> As an additional exercise, I'll now show you how I might check out
> whether balug.org DNS is OK.  This is something _anyone_ can do, 
> even MS-Windows sufferers.  (There's a free-of-charge download of 
> "whois" and "dig" programs in MS-Windows executable format on the Web.)

Never say I don't love y'all, even those of you using MS-Windows willingly:
http://members.shaw.ca/nicholas.fong/dig/

Provides:  dig.exe, host.exe, whois.exe, sha1.exe, and support libs.

Reasons why you should use "dig" (or "host") rather than nslookup, even
on MS-Windows where people keep mindlessly using the provided
nslookup.exe utility out of habit, even though according to my calender
it's not 2000 any more:

http://homepages.tesco.net/J.deBoynePollard/FGA/nslookup-flaws.html
http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/nslookup.html

(On Linux, one doesn't even have the bad excuse of needing to fetch
non-default tools.)




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  2 16:05:04 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:05:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug.org DNS
Message-ID: <20090303000504.GR24345@linuxmafia.com>

Might as well look at SF-LUG's other domain.

1.  Where are the authoritative servers, as per the public "whois"?

$ whois sf-lug.org | grep "Name Server"
Name Server:NS41.WORLDNIC.COM
Name Server:NS42.WORLDNIC.COM
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
Name Server: 
$


2.  Where the parent zone (org)'s nameservers?

$ dig -t ns org. +short
c0.org.afilias-nst.info.
b2.org.afilias-nst.org.
a0.org.afilias-nst.info.
d0.org.afilias-nst.org.
b0.org.afilias-nst.org.
a2.org.afilias-nst.info.
$


What does one of those parent-zone nameservers say, if you ask it about
the location of sf-lug.org's namesevers?

$ dig -t ns sf-lug.org. @d0.org.afilias-nst.org.       
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 25836
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 0, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
sf-lug.org.             86400   IN      NS      ns41.worldnic.com.
sf-lug.org.             86400   IN      NS      ns42.worldnic.com.
$

(As noted, the .org top-level domain people, Public Interest Registry,
are currently issuing subtly wrong responses, as the above should have
been returned in the "Answer Section", not the "Authority Section".  If
curious, compare what the "com" top-level domain's nameservers return
concerning the .com domain of your choosing.[1])


3.  Last, what do SF-LUG's nameservers, thus identified, say about the
domain's NS, SOA, and key A records?

 $ dig -t ns sf-lug.org @ns41.worldnic.com +short
ns42.worldnic.com.
ns41.worldnic.com.

$ dig -t ns sf-lug.org @ns42.worldnic.com +short
ns41.worldnic.com.
ns42.worldnic.com.

 $ dig -t soa sf-lug.org @ns41.worldnic.com +short
NS41.WORLDNIC.COM. namehost.WORLDNIC.COM. 109012019 10800 3600 604800
3600

$ dig -t soa sf-lug.org @ns42.worldnic.com +short
NS41.WORLDNIC.COM. namehost.WORLDNIC.COM. 109012019 10800 3600 604800
3600

$ dig www.sf-lug.org @ns41.worldnic.com +short
208.69.41.175

$ dig www.sf-lug.org @ns42.worldnic.com +short
208.69.41.175



This all appears to be correct and satisfactory -- with the exception of
the administrative error of trying to get by with only two authoritative
nameservers.

(I am curious about why SF-LUG isn't doing authoritative DNS on its own
machine for its primary domain.)




[1] E.g.:

$ dig -t ns com. +short
i.gtld-servers.net.
m.gtld-servers.net.
l.gtld-servers.net.
h.gtld-servers.net.
g.gtld-servers.net.
k.gtld-servers.net.
j.gtld-servers.net.
a.gtld-servers.net.
c.gtld-servers.net.
e.gtld-servers.net.
b.gtld-servers.net.
d.gtld-servers.net.
f.gtld-servers.net.

$ dig -t ns linuxmafia.com. @i.gtld-servers.net. +short
ns.primate.net.
ns.tx.primate.net.
ns1.linuxmafia.com.
ns1.thecoop.net.
ns2.linuxmafia.com.


(Or, repeating the preceding command without "+short", to also see
section headers, flags, and information outside the "Answer Section":)

$ dig -t ns linuxmafia.com. @i.gtld-servers.net.
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19525
;; flags: qr rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 5, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 6

;; ANSWER SECTION:
linuxmafia.com.         172800  IN      NS      ns.primate.net.
linuxmafia.com.         172800  IN      NS      ns.tx.primate.net.
linuxmafia.com.         172800  IN      NS      ns1.linuxmafia.com.
linuxmafia.com.         172800  IN      NS      ns1.thecoop.net.
linuxmafia.com.         172800  IN      NS      ns2.linuxmafia.com.

;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
ns.primate.net.         172800  IN      A       198.144.194.12
ns.primate.net.         172800  IN      AAAA    2001:470:1f00:ffff::6b7
ns.tx.primate.net.      172800  IN      A       72.249.38.88
ns1.linuxmafia.com.     172800  IN      A       198.144.195.186
ns1.thecoop.net.        172800  IN      A       66.220.20.163
ns2.linuxmafia.com.     172800  IN      A       63.193.123.122
$



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  2 18:13:56 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 18:13:56 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Save the date! March 21 is the next Tenderloin Tech day
Message-ID: <4b5781040903021813k2fe15661t84d578fc9d3ae7@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

St. Anthony Foundation has set the next Tenderloin Tech Day on  Saturday,
March 21, 2009, from 10:00 a.m to 2 p.m 1t 150 Golden Gate Avenue at Jones
Street in the Tenderloin.  We will be demonstrating GNU-Linux to low-income
residents of the Tenderloin.  We will also be installing Linux distros as
appropriate on older hardware, so please bring your favorite distros with
you, along with an appropriate screw driver and needle nose pliers, stuff
that you would need for run-of-the-mill trouble-shooting on older hardware.
This is a brand-new, safe, clean facility for St. Anthony Foundation.

There is as yet no web page for this particular event, but we do have this
CNet video from the first Tenderloin Tech Day held at St. Anthony:

http://news.cnet.com/Tenderloin-Tech-Day/1606-2_3-6223419.html

This event will be a great opportunity to help get GNU-Linux into the hands
of people who need it the most; namely, people who really can't afford
legitimate Microsoft Windows installs, but don't yet have the skills to
install Linux by themselves.

Thanks in advance for considering this event!
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From john_re at fastmail.us  Wed Mar  4 05:12:22 2009
From: john_re at fastmail.us (john_re)
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 05:12:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Global Linux Meeting March 7 Sat BerkeleyTIP -Global - For
	Forwarding
Message-ID: <1236172342.26261.1303577149@webmail.messagingengine.com>

I was talking with the president of SFVLUG at SCaLE - I said I was a
member of SFLUG (actually, I said SVLUG).  I said "We're one letter more
efficient than you all".  He said "We're one letter more informative
than you all."  Touche! :)

Ekiga(Gnome meeting), Asterisk, Xen, Virtualbox, Debian 15 Years, Free
and Open Future, Amarok, ZFS, FreeBSD, Python, OLPC


=====  SCHEDULE
Schedule: All times Pacific Std Time = GMT -8H 
             ex: 10A PST = 1P Eastern ST
10 A    Begin:  Set up.  Get on IRC & VOIP
11 A    Ekiga3 talk LIVE
        INSTALLFEST begin
12 N    Asterisk, OLPC;
        PROGRAMMING PARTY: VOIP Conference client & server
 1 P    Xen, Virtualbox; GNOME
 2 P    KDE ? GUI; Macintosh
 3 P    Debian; BSD; College & University groups
 4 P    Free & Open Future; Culture; Hardware
 5 P    LIGHTNING TALKS
        Python; INetWebDev; Local Simultaneous Meetings Arrangements


=====  PHYSICAL LOCATION: UC Berkeley FREE SPEECH CAFE
At Moffitt Undergrad Library.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=37.872558,-122.260795&spn=0.001776,0.002529&z=19
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/directions
BART: Berkeley Downtown Station.
Caltrain: Berkeley Station, bus up University to campus.
Car: 880 Freeway, University Exit.

=====  IRC & VOIP
Join IRC freenode.net #berkeleytip, & we'll help you get on VOIP
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/remote-attendance


===== Come to the: Great global meeting planned for this Saturday!  :)

Yes!  You can join in with the friendly global BTIP people - get a
headset & join the VOIP conference, from home, or wherever.  Hey -
invite your friends over & you can haz parte.  ;)

Be the first in your state - or country - to join in.  Since Chaitanya
joined from India in February, we have now officially moved up to
global.  :)

BerkeleyTIP - Global Monthly GNU(Linux), BSD & All Free SW HW & Culture
meeting.
Talks, Installfest, Potluck & ProgrammingParty
Educational, Productive, Social
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/


=====  TALKS:  11A LIVE, - DOWNLOAD & WATCH VIDEOS BEFORE
Ekiga 3 on KUbuntu 8.04 - Chaitanya Mehandru, LIVE 11AM PST = GMT -8H
Asterisk Free Software Telephone System - Paul Charles Leddy, NYLUG-08
Xen Virtualization - Ian Pratt, FOSDEM-08
Virtualbox, Achim Hasenmueller, FOSDEM-08
Debian, Bdale Garbee, FOSDEM-09
Free and Open Future - Mark Surman, FOSDEM-09
Amarok v2 - Akademy-08
Debian: 15 Years and Counting - Steve McIntyre, Debconf-08 - Keynote
ZFS for FreeBSD - Pawel Jakub Dawidek, MeetBSD-08
Python on the OLPC laptop -  Ed Cherlin, BayPIGgies-08

Links to the videos & more info here:
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/talk-videos
Suggestion:  Download & watch the videos _you_ are interested in
_before_ the meeting, so you can spend the scheduled topic time
_discussing_ that talk.

All the talk/video speakers are invited to join in for Q&A & discussion.
[Please pass that word on to the speakers, because I probably wont have
time to notify them individually.]

Thanks to all the speakerz, videographerz, & sponsoring groupiez.  :)
& doubble plus big thanks to David Fox, r noo talk/vid finder/scheduler.
 :)

==  LIGHTNING TALKS - 5PM - Sign up anytime.


=====  PROGRAMMING PARTY:
1) Help get Ekiga 3 compiled, running & packaged for KUbuntu8.04
2) Help get a local Asterisk VOIP conference server working.
3) Whatever _you_ are interested in - Email the list inviting us to join
on your project.  :)


=====  PEOPLE ARE TALKING:
Chris said:  the meeting went very well for Feb. 7.

Windsor said:  I am interested in Jack's
idea of focusing a group on promotion of Linux as a desktop operating
system and targeting perspective Linux users. I'm enthusiastic about
doing something to this effect, like hosting an install night, standing
in Sproul Plaza near a card table, etc..

David said:  the USB headset I ordered and will
pick up at the post office tomorrow - 
Markt9 (from virtual lug) told me that it was a very nice one. I can't
wait until I get the chance to try it live.

& Windsor says: I posted some guidelines for people editing the web
page. Also, (and I'm not trying to be a kill-joy) I think the smilies
should be left in IRC and private e-mails. Every time I see one on the
site I think of myspace.com or icanhazcheeseburger.com.

john_re says: Thanks for the tipz, everyone. - I'll keep 'em in mind. 
;)

ps: & more doubbble pluz big thanks to Windsor, for the new website
design.  :)

[Someone, call the doctor, got a case of love bipolar.  Staccato, roller
coaster, can't get off this riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide.]
http://equine-ranch.com/horseinfo.php?horseid=240482


=====  JOIN THE MAILING LIST
& say "Hi", where you're from, what you're interested in, & whatever
project you invite others to join in on.
http://groups.google.com/group/BerkTIPGlobal
Click "Join this group" on the right side of the page.


=====  FLYER
- Opportunity - Put 10 up so your friends will know.
http://sites.google.com/site/berkeleytip/home/March09_BTIPFlyer.odt?attredirects=0


====  FOR FORWARDING -
You are invited to forward this message anywhere appropriate.

C-ya there :)



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Mar  5 14:44:44 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 14:44:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Details for March 21 Tenderloin Computer Day
Message-ID: <4b5781040903051444i31dc0cbcoc68194990dfb2435@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

As you might recall, there will be another Tenderloin Computer Help Day on
Saturday, March 21, 2009, from 9:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at 150 Golden Gate Avenue
between Jones and Leavenworth.  The group organizing the event has just
created this information page, which has links to the sign-up pages.

http://www.computerhelpdays.org/tenderloin-computer-help-days.html

In the past, we have had good turn-out from the Linux crowd, but this time
we would like to also ask people to take a moment to sign up in advance, at
the links provided at that page.  Thanks either way for considering my
request!  The announcement of the event at the above-linked page is as
follows:

**************

Tenderloin Computer Help Days

Network Ministries, St Anthony Foundation and other Tenderloin agencies
strive to increase technology use by offering computer classes and labs. But
many Tenderloin residents may have old or obsolete computer equipment and
software is often too expensive.

Event goals:
1. To create a community of computer users in the Tenderloin,
2. Make Clients more comfortable in mainstream society
3. Make technology and computer repair culturally and financially accessible

At this event, volunteers provide free technical support, demonstrate and
install open source operating and virus protection software and provide
one-on-one computer and Internet tutoring.  rticipants will register in
advance for whatever services they need.

1. Hospitality - Greet participants and direct them to the appropriate
activity;

During the event, volunteers greet people on the street and invite them to
come up to the event. Volunteers then meet people at the top of the stairs
and ask a few questions about their needs for the event. Repair needs are
referred to the Repair Room. Workshop are directed to a classroom. Others
are directed to the computer stations in the computer lab for more
information and individual attention.

Volunteers are needed to set up and refresh refreshments for the volunteers
and participants, to welcome volunteers and participants and to direct
participants to the appropriate activity. Volunteers may also be asked to
distribute information about the event to people outside the event.

2.  Tech Triage and Tech Support - Provide simple technical support for
existing computers sign up here

The Tech Triage volunteer matches incoming users with the
technicalvolunteers best suited to help them.  Each participant makes an
appointment in advance. When they make their appointment and repair request,
they are interviewed for basic information about their problem, the
specifications of their machines, and operating systems (if known). When the
participant arrives for their repair appointment, the Tech Triage volunteer
quickly assesses the broad outlines of the user's needs, and sends them to
most suitable available tech volunteer for those problems.

If the problem cannot be solved with the resources at the event, the Triage
Volunteer may provide other options or solutions for their problems. The
Tech Triage Volunteer must be familiar with Windows and Linux-based
operating systems and PC-based hardwared and software. Friendly, outgoing
and bi-lingual preferred.

Tech support volunteers work with computer problems that may include:

1.   Hardware and software problem diagnosis
2.   Installing and demonstrating software updates and trouble-shooting
hardware problems
3.   Installing and demonstrating anti-virus and privacy protection software
4.   Performing simple repairs to existing personal computer equipment.

Volunteers bring items that would help in the repair of PC's. For example:
* tools such as screw drivers and needle nose pliers
* install CDs (OSes, virus scanners, etc)
* blank CDs
* spare computer parts (old HDs, power supplies, cables, etc)
* And anything else they think may be useful

3.  One-on-one Tutoring and Advice - Provide one-on-one tutoring to
demonstrate how to browse the Internet to find useful information and
resources. sign up now

Volunteers work one-on-one with Tenderloin residents to demonstrate software
and online resources that will help with their daily lives. Topics are
determined by the clients and their interests. Possible topics include job
search and casual labor resources, how to set up an email account, online
GED or other classes, Internet safety, how to make a simple flyer, and
additional training opportunities. No previous teaching or training
experience necessary - just patience and enthusiasm.
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From asheesh at asheesh.org  Sat Mar  7 17:54:30 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 17:54:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Mon Mar 9 6:30 PM: Chapter 16
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903071750520.30784@vellum.laroia.net>

(Thanks to both of you who submitted assignments! It's very encouraging to 
see that level of participation, and it's also still good to have people 
drop by even if they haven't. Reading still recommended, though.)

WHERE: Noisebridge (83C Weise St, near 16th & Mission BART)
<http://noisebridge.net>
WHEN:  Mon Mar 9 6:30 PM
WHAT:  Community Python learning session: Chapter 16

TEXTBOOK INFO: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/thinkpython.html
TEXTBOOK CHAP: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book017.html

This week, we keep looking at making your own types of objects through 
"classes." We talk about functions that use classes, a topic we touched on 
last session in-class. We also learn the crucial concept of "invariants." 
You also learn about the term "Functional programming" and see how it is 
different from just "making something that works."

Not a very long chapter, again.

IF YOU ARE NEW

Remember that the point of the class is to help you answer questions you 
have. To that end, *read Chapter 16* so that you can make sense of the 
general class discussion.

In addition, work forward in the text starting with chapter 1. I *urge* 
you to send me your exercises for any chapters; I can provide good 
feedback. Focus on the exercises for Chapter 16 so that we can have a 
coherent conversation in class, and feel free to ask me questions about 
earlier material.

WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT?

A bunch of SF-LUG people have been learning an introduction to programming, and 
I've been facilitating.  My expectation is to have a fun conversation with 
people who have mostly read the chapter, and some of whom (hopefully all!) have 
done the chapter's exercises.

WHAT'S THE LOCATION?

Noisebridge is a "hacker space" where people gather to discuss technology
and art or build things.  It's a member-supported non-profit, and I think
you'll think it's pretty cool.  Read https://www.noisebridge.net/.

KEEP TALKING

I invite you to email me your answers to the exercises, or to discuss on the 
sf-lug list (since that's where this all started).

See some of you there!

-- Asheesh.

-- 
You are sick, twisted and perverted.  I like that in a person.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Mon Mar  9 00:23:47 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 00:23:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Debian Lenny release party + B.A.D. Meeting on March 11,
 2009 (fwd)
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903090023310.24308@vellum.laroia.net>

Bay Area Debian is meeting this Wednesday to have a KILLER Lenny release party.

YOW! Join us.

-- Asheesh.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 00:21:48
From: Asheesh Laroia <asheesh at asheesh.org>
To: bad at bad.debian.net
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT Lenny release party: B.A.D. Meeting on March 11, 2009

The Bay Area Debian meeting for this month will be a MONSTER Lenny release 
party on Wednesday, March 11, 2009. At the Revolution Cafe in San Francisco, 
starting at 6:30 PM. The Revolution Cafe is tastefully located at 3248 22nd St, 
between Mission and Valencia.

The Revolution Cafe offers sandwiches, drinks (alcoholic and not), an outdoor 
patio, heat lamps for their indoor seating, and free wifi. Even more 
substantial food can be nabbed from neighborhood joints.

WHERE: 3248 22nd St, San Francisco, CA
        http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-revolution-cafe-san-francisco
        Very close to 24th St BART in San Francisco

WHEN:  March 11, 2009 6:30 PM

OMFG:  LENNY IS RELEASED

ORLY:  YA RLY

See you there.

-- Asheesh.

P.S. Please enjoy this lolcat in Esperanto, courtesy of Seth Schoen: 
http://paulproteus.acm.jhu.edu/tmp/cat.jpg

-- 
You will be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize... posthumously.



From tom at greenleaftech.net  Mon Mar  9 16:10:13 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 16:10:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HP Laptop
Message-ID: <1236640213.7433.62.camel@hurlyburly>

Hi Folks,

I have an HP dv5405us laptop that's recently become surplus to
requirements. If anyone is interested in having it, let me know. If
there's more than one person interested, the best reason why you need
it/what you'll do with it wins.

It has the following specs:

15.4" screen (it's big, and heavy)
40GB hard drive
768MB RAM
64MB Nvidia graphics card (sorry, but works in any case)
Broadcom wireless (sorry, but works in any case)
64bit 2+ GHz AMD processor

At the moment it has a stock Ubuntu 8.10 install. I'd plan to re-install
Ubuntu 8.10 or 9.04 either i386 or amd64 version - whoever wants it, let
me know what version you want installed.

I can bring it along to the next LUG meeting a week today.

Cheers, Tom
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 16:54:18 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 16:54:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HP Laptop
In-Reply-To: <1236640213.7433.62.camel@hurlyburly>
References: <1236640213.7433.62.camel@hurlyburly>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903091654y14600f9cw31dba4caeb3bd0e3@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

If you choose me, I will give this computer to a teacher at the school.  I
have been trying to get more teachers at the school using Linux.  We
currently have one teacher using Linux.

Or, I would offer this notebook to a teacher to auction off as a reward for
a high-performing student.

At any rate, it would be used to supplement our FOSS program at the school!

Thanks either way for considering my application.
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From tom at greenleaftech.net  Mon Mar  9 17:01:04 2009
From: tom at greenleaftech.net (Tom Haddon)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:01:04 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] HP Laptop
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903091654y14600f9cw31dba4caeb3bd0e3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1236640213.7433.62.camel@hurlyburly>
	<4b5781040903091654y14600f9cw31dba4caeb3bd0e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1236643264.7433.67.camel@hurlyburly>

On Mon, 2009-03-09 at 16:54 -0700, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
> hi, 
> 
> If you choose me, I will give this computer to a teacher at the
> school.  I have been trying to get more teachers at the school using
> Linux.  We currently have one teacher using Linux.  
> 
> Or, I would offer this notebook to a teacher to auction off as a
> reward for a high-performing student. 
> 
> At any rate, it would be used to supplement our FOSS program at the
> school!
> 
> Thanks either way for considering my application.

Hi Christian,

I'm going to be giving it to Mikki McGee - she's a member on the list
that I've met before and when she responded to the email I thought, yep,
that makes total sense. Sorry, should have replied to the list to let
you all know it's already taken.

Cheers, Tom

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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Mar  9 17:15:06 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 17:15:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dvorak recommends LInux
Message-ID: <4b5781040903091715t1b5186b7pfeabd4ab9c17389c@mail.gmail.com>

Dvorak is a nut case, but he's a widely read nut case:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342703,00.asp

" I'm tired of dealing with Windows malware, patch Tuesday, and the
never-ending deterioration of the OS as it clogs up like a drain in a
greasy-spoon restaurant. I can't take it anymore."

"If I had a small or mid-size company, I'd probably use only Linux and
open-source
software <http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342703,00.asp#>, just to
stay out of the way of the software police and their onerous
"audits"?another abhorrent situation that, to me, is intolerable."
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Tue Mar 10 05:52:41 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 05:52:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on
	DJing	and Music Composition on Linux
Message-ID: <20090310055241.12913l4enbcy2ack@webmail.rawbw.com>

BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and  
Music Composition on Linux

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-03-17
Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and Music
Composition on Linux

Have you ever wanted to learn beat-mixing or electronic music
composition?  Want to get started with software that's completely free
and community-based?  Join us for an evening with STARPAUSE (a.k.a.
Jordan Gray), chiptune producer and founder of the Mp3Death[1] (Creative
Commons) netaudio label.  Jordan will cover the basics of DJing and
introduce you to the free open-source MIXXX[2] digital DJ software. Then
we'll move on to tracker-based music composition using
LittleGPTracker[3], which Jordan will demonstrate both on laptop and the
Game Park handheld. LittleGPTracker is free and designed especially for
8-bit (GameBoy-style) music.  Both software run on the free Linux
operating system (Mac and Windows also available).

1. http://mp3death.us/
2. http://www.mixxx.org/
3. http://littlegptracker.com/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

      rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

      6:30pm
      Tuesday, March 17th, 2009 2009-03-17

      Four Seas Restaurant
      731 Grant Ave.
      San Francisco, CA 94108
      Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

http://www.balug.org/

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 10 09:07:04 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 08:07:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB POSTING] LAMP Developers, SF | 80-110k]
Message-ID: <1236701224.6848.252.camel@jim-laptop>



[JOB] LAMP Developers, SF | 80-110k 

Our San Francisco client located in the Financial District is looking
for LAMP Developers who want to build engaging consumer applications in
a rapid-development, agile environment. They are looking for people who
want to create social games that operate across all social networks.
Candidates must be self-starters with the desire to work in a small and
dynamic engineering team. If you'd like to redefine online gaming and
join a small team focused on engineering fun and interesting social
situations, apply here. 

Requirements:  

* 1-5 years of experience with database-driven web sites, specifically
social media and social network platforms 
* LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) 
* Understanding of UI and an eye towards product management and design 
* Consumer and creator of social media 
* BS in Computer Science from a top notch university 
* Bonus for experience with Flash or JavaScript 
* Bonus for building both quick prototypes as well as highly scalable /
maintainable systems 

Candidates who have developed: (1) Facebook applications and/or (2)
other social applications and/or (3) flash games/widgets and have the
links/portfolio to back it up will get first preference. 

To be considered, please submit your resume along with your salary
requirements to bg @ capitalmarketsp.com 

Beau Gould 
Executive Advisor 
Capital Markets Placement 
www.cmp.jobs 
bg @ capitalmarketsp.com 





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 15:04:20 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:04:20 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
Message-ID: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>

If Linux is able to take market share from Microsoft, it will largely be due
to the persistence of social gatherings, such as LUGs like this one and Rick
Moen barbeques.  LOL.

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/how-to-run-a-successful-linux-user-group-527915
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 10 15:27:35 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:27:35 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> If Linux is able to take market share from Microsoft, it will largely be due
> to the persistence of social gatherings, such as LUGs like this one and Rick
> Moen barbeques.  LOL.

Hey, if it weren't for barbecuing and free parking, what would the
suburbs be good for, anyway?

LUGs would have a much better time in the USA if we had the same social
institution of pubs that the UK and Eire have.  Unfortunately, dumb
liquor laws mean that otherwise fine places to meet in the back rooms of
pubs are off-limits to attendees under age 21.[1]  Some Linux groups
have tried to hold events in brewpubs (e.g., Bay Area Debian's meeting
at the Dutch Goose, just downhill from my house), only to hear
(understandable) complaints from underage members.

The closest USA analogue -- as long as we're still stuck in a Volstead
Act mentality -- is pizza parlours and similar restaurants with
available back rooms.  ObSF-LUG:  For example, there's a Round Table on
Geary Blvd. at 16th Avenue with a large upstairs room.


[1] Well, with some exceptions such as Louisiana.  See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state 
to fully appreciate how wacked the states' laws are on this point.




From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Mar 10 15:50:32 2009
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:50:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <2f8a56f70903101550k2fb4cdc0y4d7eaf5d5f5021a3@mail.gmail.com>

> For example, there's a Round Table on
> Geary Blvd. at 16th Avenue with a large upstairs room.


I think that location closed down a couple of years ago, but there's one on
the south side of Geary between Arguello and Stanyan.  The local chapter of
the SCA meets there on Tuesday nights.
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 10 16:02:39 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:02:39 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70903101550k2fb4cdc0y4d7eaf5d5f5021a3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<2f8a56f70903101550k2fb4cdc0y4d7eaf5d5f5021a3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090310230238.GX24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jeff Bragg (jackofnotrades at gmail.com):

> I think that location closed down a couple of years ago, but there's
> one on the south side of Geary between Arguello and Stanyan.  The
> local chapter of the SCA meets there on Tuesday nights.

Pity.  The restaurant itself at the Geary / 16th location was
predicatably so-so, but the upstairs dining room was a real find.  It
might be worth scouting out to see if it's re-opened as something
different, maybe even something better.




From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Mar 10 17:28:45 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:28:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 03:27:35PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> LUGs would have a much better time in the USA if we had the same social
> institution of pubs that the UK and Eire have.

When I moved away from Davis, and it was becoming more difficult to
schedule speakers for EVERY LUGOD meeting (we met 2x / month),
we decided to make one of our monthly events a social gathering, and
that's worked out pretty well.  (There's not a ton of time to
_socialize_ at our general meetings, because we're doing club
business and watching a presentation.)

We hold them at a local crepe-oriented restaurant, that people seem
to enjoy, though I recently discovered the local southwest-style
restaurant holds fundraisers on the day of the week that we hold
our socials.  (In other words, we hold our social there, and 10% of
everyone's meal price is donated to the club by the restaurant.
Ben & Jerry's does/did that, too, and we held a little ice-cream
fundraiser for EFF a number of years ago.)

>From what I've seen of SF-LUG, the meetings are generally more
social-oriented, versus guest-speaker oriented (though I've gone
and spoken at least once :) ).

I think it's good to have a mix.

Rambling,

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 10 17:42:17 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:42:17 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20090311004216.GY24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):

> We hold them at a local crepe-oriented restaurant, that people seem
> to enjoy, though I recently discovered the local southwest-style
> restaurant holds fundraisers on the day of the week that we hold
> our socials.

Restaurant venues need to be evaluated, in my experience, concerning:

o  size of the expected attendance, esp. relative to table size
o  ability to accomodate larger crowds when needed
o  noise levels
o  event conflicts (e.g., karaoke or football nights)
o  policy about separate cheques and mandatory tips
o  public transit, parking, credit cards, beer/wine, hours...

(And there will always be someone unhappy about something: The places
isn't good for vegans, lactose-intolerance, celiac disorder, pepper
allergies, and so on.)

Lots of places go through cycles of being group-friendly versus
group-hostile.  For a while, they love you, and then suddenly 
everyone has to pay on the same bill, there's a 20% tip autoadded,
food service is slow and inaccurate, and you get the strong feeling the
shift manager wants you to go away.





From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Mar 10 22:23:40 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:23:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090311004216.GY24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>
	<20090311004216.GY24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090311052340.GD25360@sonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 05:42:17PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Restaurant venues need to be evaluated, in my experience, concerning:

What's nice about Crepeville is:

> o  size of the expected attendance, esp. relative to table size

Usually enough room and free tables, and they have no problem with us
adjoining nearby tables to expand our space.

> o  ability to accomodate larger crowds when needed

See above.

> o  noise levels

Seems good.

> o  event conflicts (e.g., karaoke or football nights)

Haven't noticed any.  Just a lot of studiers with laptops.
(Makes us hard to discern from students, I guess -- we HAVE had
problems about people not finding us.  Of course, they didn't ASK.
I've caught a few people who I see walk in, and looking around
confusedly.)

> o  policy about separate cheques and mandatory tips

You order and pay, then sit down with a number and they bring it
to you. :)  (The southwestern-style place is similar, in that
respect.)


> o  public transit, parking, credit cards, beer/wine, hours...

Downtown.  Cash or check only, but has ATM in the back.  Serves booze,
I think.  Open late.

We lucked out! :)

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 10 22:28:50 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 22:28:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090311052340.GD25360@sonic.net>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>
	<20090311004216.GY24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311052340.GD25360@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20090311052849.GA24345@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):

> We lucked out! :)

Well, yes, and I've been to Crepeville.  As might or might not have been
apparent, I wasn't talking about Crepeville at all, but rather was
listing the general qualities to look for in any restaurant for a LUG
venue, for the benefit of _other_ people facing that problem.




From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Mar 10 23:36:05 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 23:36:05 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick Moen quoted in article re building LUGs
In-Reply-To: <20090311052849.GA24345@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903101504u7f596019hc516bda1706eadb@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090310222735.GW24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311002845.GD20151@sonic.net>
	<20090311004216.GY24345@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090311052340.GD25360@sonic.net>
	<20090311052849.GA24345@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090311063605.GB4160@sonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 10:28:50PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):
> 
> > We lucked out! :)
> 
> Well, yes, and I've been to Crepeville.  As might or might not have been
> apparent, I wasn't talking about Crepeville at all, but rather was
> listing the general qualities to look for in any restaurant for a LUG
> venue, for the benefit of _other_ people facing that problem.

Oh, I know.  I was just gloating.  (Well, really, just realizing how
much we lucked out. ;) )

*raising glass*  To the crepevilles of the world!

-bill!



From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 11 07:48:57 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:48:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PyClass] code for a timeit decorator
Message-ID: <1236782937.6848.284.camel@jim-laptop>


taken from 
http://www.biais.org/blog/index.php/Python/2007/01 
which has some other interesting decorators as well. 

A very simple decorator to notify users (no profiling) about the
execution time of some parts of your code.

# comments below are mine (js) ; the idea of a decorator is that you 
# make a function and then use it in tandem with other functions 
# (or classes) in your code. note it makes little sense to make 
# a decorator if you don't use it with more than one function. 
# the point is that using a function as a decorator lets you 
# distribute some kind of behavior into multiple other functions 
# without duplicating the code within each of the other functions. 


--------------THE CODE--------------
import time
 
def timemeth(func):        # define a function, nothing special 
    "Internal class method timing decorator"
    def _inner(self, *args, **kw):
        start = time.time()
        res = func(self, *args, **kw)
        self.timed = time.time() - start
        return res
    return _inner
 
class TimedClass:
    def __init__(self):
        self.timed = 0
 
class Sample(TimedClass):
    @timemeth    # use the @ symbol with the function name... 
    def learn(self):   # ...immediately above whatever you want...  
        for i in range(1000000):   # ...to decorate... 
            i * i
 
if __name__ == "__main__": 
    s = Sample()
    print "Learning sample..."
    s.learn()
    print "Learning done ! (%.2f secs)" % s.timed

--------------THE CODE--------------

outputs:

$ python timedclass.py
Learning sample...
Learning done ! (2.01 secs)






From sarah at cloudmade.com  Wed Mar 11 13:41:00 2009
From: sarah at cloudmade.com (Sarah Manley)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:41:00 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] OpenStreetMap mapping party this weekend in SF!
Message-ID: <C5DD6FEC.2511%Sarah@cloudmade.com>

I will be hosting another OpenStreetMap Mapping Party this weekend in San Francisco. If you are interested in learning more about open source mapping, stop by!

Saturday March 14th from 11am to 4pm and Sunday March 15 from 1pm to 5pm
San Francisco Public Library Noe Valley Branch, 451 Jersey St. San Francisco, CA 94114
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Mapping_Party_Mar2009

Feel Free to contact me, Sarah Manley, Sarah at cloudmade.com, with questions.
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From nathan at foo-o-rama.com  Wed Mar 11 17:54:02 2009
From: nathan at foo-o-rama.com (Nathan Hoover)
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:54:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [OT] data centre recommendations?
Message-ID: <22a0b8070903111754m439e03f3v7eb762db65f5bdc2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Apologies for being a bit off-topic, but many of you are knowledgeable in
this realm and so I'd appreciate your input. Can anyone recommend a data
centre in the Bay Area (although preferably in San Francisco)? I am looking
to colocate about half a rack of equipment initially and for bandwidth in
the range of 5-10 megabits. Stability is topmost concern but price is always
important as well. I would appreciate both positive recommendations as well
as the "avoid these guys at all costs" variety; if you'd like to email me
off-list rather than complain publically, feel free.

On a related note, does anyone have an opinion positive or negative about
the NTT data centres in San Jose and/or Santa Clara?

Thanks!
Nathan
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Wed Mar 11 18:03:22 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 11 Mar 2009 21:03:22 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] [OT] data centre recommendations?
Message-ID: <18321956.1236819803629.JavaMail.cfservice@webservera1>


Others are probably much more knowledgeable but I believe The SFLUG is hosted at  Coloserve  a serve path company. We went on a tour it seemed nice but what do I know. Im sure Jim could give you more details....


Best Regards,

Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From:Nathan Hoover nathan at foo-o-rama.com 
To: "SFLUG Mailing List" ;
Sent: Mar 11, 2009 05:58:05 PM
Subject: [sf-lug] [OT] data centre recommendations?

Hi folks,

Apologies for being a bit off-topic, but many of you are knowledgeable in this realm and so I'd appreciate your input. Can anyone recommend a data centre in the Bay Area (although preferably in San Francisco)? I am looking to colocate about half a rack of equipment initially and for bandwidth in the range of 5-10 megabits. Stability is topmost concern but price is always important as well. I would appreciate both positive recommendations as well as the "avoid these guys at all costs" variety; if you'd like to email me off-list rather than complain publically, feel free.

On a related note, does anyone have an opinion positive or negative about the NTT data centres in San Jose and/or Santa Clara?

Thanks!
Nathan

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From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Mar 12 09:57:13 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 09:57:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPC-SF March meeting...
Message-ID: <5fb387c70903120957v3012ec38qd9fa7bb8609a59d9@mail.gmail.com>

March meeting details are now posted online: http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/619

Hope to see some of you this Saturday!!!

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 12 10:11:19 2009
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 10:11:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] (Jobs) It might be pointless to ask...
Message-ID: <345279.50211.qm@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

...But, does anybody know of anyone hiring? I was turned down at Fry's for Computer repair position because I didn't wear a tie. I guess that tells you something about Fry's. I can do website design or computer repair. I wouldn't mind an internship in a computer repair shop, or similar, just to get more experience. I am in Concord, which is the Bay Area's version of Siberia. Any help would be nice.
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From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com  Thu Mar 12 10:27:21 2009
From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty)
Date: 12 Mar 2009 13:27:21 -0400
Subject: [sf-lug] (Jobs) It might be pointless to ask...
Message-ID: <2269190.1236878841943.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1>


Companies are hiring, despite everything you hear on the news, companies are definitely hiring, even the ones laying off are hiring. Intel layoffs, the next day we get a phone call from managers telling us they need to hire someone. Now companies like Frys, or other "computer shops" that rely on the Joe Blow consumer are struggling a bit more.

 

That being said competition is fierce, and managers are being picky. The best job searching advice I can give to a candidate is get creative, what you have done in the past will not work. Managers are getting nailed with way too many resumes than they even need and the majority are not qualified, you need to differentiate yourself from all those others and make it jump out of the stack. Candidates need to move out of their comfort zone and try some new approaches. 

 

I'd be more than happy to meet with you and give you tips, pointers, ideas..etc to help you in this type of market.  


Best Regards,

Blake Haggerty

Permanent Placement Specialist

Sapphire Technologies U.S., a Randstad company

27 Maiden Lane

San Francisco, CA 94108

(p) (415) 788-8488

(f) (415) 788-2592

www.sapphirena.com


 

-----Original Message-----
From:vincent polite vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com 
To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ;
Sent: Mar 12, 2009 10:13:34 AM
Subject: [sf-lug] (Jobs) It might be pointless to ask...





...But, does anybody know of anyone hiring? I was turned down at Fry's for Computer repair position because I didn't wear a tie. I guess that tells you something about Fry's. I can do website design or computer repair. I wouldn't mind an internship in a computer repair shop, or similar, just to get more experience. I am in Concord, which is the Bay Area's version of Siberia. Any help would be nice.

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From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 12 18:03:34 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:03:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meets monday, march 16,
	at cafe euro on geary at 26th avenue
Message-ID: <1236906214.6425.167.camel@jim-laptop>


   sf-lug meets monday, march 16, at cafe euro on geary at 
26th avenue from 6 PM to 8 PM or so. 

   Thanks to Pearson education, there will be books (i.e. 
book-like things) to give away: 

* Web Development with TIBCO General Interface 
Building AJAX Clients for Enterprise SOA 
by Anil Gurnani, pub Addison Wesley 

* Sams Teach Yourself PHP and MySQL 
Video Learning Starter Kit 
a DVD in a box -- four hours 
no author credits, pub Sams 

* Python Fundamentals 
another video in a box -- seven hours 
by Wesley Chun, pub Prentice Hall 

   there might be discussion of sharing books and such 
and even the possibility of collaborating on a book-
sharing application to run under the sf-lug web site. 







From aropoika at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 13 13:34:10 2009
From: aropoika at earthlink.net (BillHill)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:34:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] shared books via 'distributed library project'
Message-ID: <19628044.1236976450458.JavaMail.root@elwamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

speaking of sharing books... i came across a great 'distributed library project' that was set up and run by some *anarchists* in SF a few years ago.  We might setup an online sflug community catalog on their lines.  Google 'distributed library project' and you get:

disclaimer page of where that particular project created by Mike Benham failed, and invitation to take it over - http://www.communitybooks.org/

and his software page:
http://www.thoughtcrime.org/software/dlp/

--billhill





From jim at well.com  Fri Mar 13 15:05:12 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:05:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] is there a saint anthony's outreach effort saturday?
Message-ID: <1236981912.6425.204.camel@jim-laptop>


   seems to me this coming saturday saint anthony's 
is having another technical outreach program. if so, 
could someone provide specifics? 
jim 





From kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 15:16:50 2009
From: kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com (Kevin J. Smith)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:16:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] is there a saint anthony's outreach effort saturday?
In-Reply-To: <1236981912.6425.204.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1236981912.6425.204.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <cd35dd0a0903131516h6150bcdar9c7e4fe5c4907ecf@mail.gmail.com>

The next Tenderloin Computer Help Day is on March 21, 2009 from 9 AM to 2 PM
- you csn find more information about what goes on at the event and sign up
here - http://www.computerhelpdays.org/tenderloin-computer-help-days.html

-KJS


On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:05 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

>
>   seems to me this coming saturday saint anthony's
> is having another technical outreach program. if so,
> could someone provide specifics?
> jim
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Mar 13 15:32:26 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:32:26 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] is there a saint anthony's outreach effort saturday?
In-Reply-To: <cd35dd0a0903131516h6150bcdar9c7e4fe5c4907ecf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1236981912.6425.204.camel@jim-laptop>
	<cd35dd0a0903131516h6150bcdar9c7e4fe5c4907ecf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903131532p4047e5c9y39b38434ad88fcee@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

2009/3/13 Kevin J. Smith <kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com<kevinjsmith%2Blug at gmail.com>
>

>
> The next Tenderloin Computer Help Day is on March 21, 2009 from 9 AM to 2
> PM - you csn find more information about what goes on at the event and sign
> up here -
> http://www.computerhelpdays.org/tenderloin-computer-help-days.html
>

Thx tons for catching this question, Kevin!  I look forward to seeing you
and other members of this auspicious list there on 3/21/09!
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 15:25:12 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:25:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
Message-ID: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

I am using an ATI radeon controller in one of my machines.  I can't alter
the refresh rate, and it is driving my eyes out of my head.  Has anyone here
had experience changing the refresh rate under Intrepid?  Preferences >
Screen Resolution hasn't worked, since that GUI dialog box offers only "0"
as the setting for the refresh rate.  Also, changing the xorg.conf file
doesn't work, since Intrepid doesn't use xorg.conf or so I have been told.

Thanks in advance.
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From kenshaffer80 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 14 20:56:08 2009
From: kenshaffer80 at gmail.com (Ken Shaffer)
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 20:56:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>

> xorg.conf is still a source of overides, so try adding the VertRefresh line
> to the monitor section.

I have no idea where the default values are stored these days.
good luck
Ken
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From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Mon Mar 16 12:53:41 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:53:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] TOMORROW!: BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE)
	talk/demo	on DJing and Music Composition on Linux
Message-ID: <20090316125341.84206yy4qe55pegw@webmail.rawbw.com>

Reminder: TOMORROW:
BALUG: Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and
Music Composition on Linux

Bay Area Linux User Group (BALUG)
Tuesday 6:30 P.M. 2009-03-17
Tu 2009-03-17 Jordan Gray (STARPAUSE) talk/demo on DJing and Music
Composition on Linux

Have you ever wanted to learn beat-mixing or electronic music
composition?  Want to get started with software that's completely free
and community-based?  Join us for an evening with STARPAUSE (a.k.a.
Jordan Gray), chiptune producer and founder of the Mp3Death[1] (Creative
Commons) netaudio label.  Jordan will cover the basics of DJing and
introduce you to the free open-source MIXXX[2] digital DJ software. Then
we'll move on to tracker-based music composition using
LittleGPTracker[3], which Jordan will demonstrate both on laptop and the
Game Park handheld. LittleGPTracker is free and designed especially for
8-bit (GameBoy-style) music.  Both software run on the free Linux
operating system (Mac and Windows also available).

1. http://mp3death.us/
2. http://www.mixxx.org/
3. http://littlegptracker.com/

So, if you'd like to join us please RSVP:

       rsvp at balug.org

**Why RSVP??**

Well, don't worry we won't turn you away, but the RSVPs really help the
Four Seas Restaurant plan the meal and they ensure that we're able to
eat upstairs in the private banquet room.

Meeting Details...

       6:30pm
       Tuesday, March 17th, 2009 2009-03-17

       Four Seas Restaurant
       731 Grant Ave.
       San Francisco, CA 94108
       Easy $5 PARKING:  Portsmouth Square Garage at 733 Kearny

Cost: The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

http://www.balug.org/

Feedback on our publicity/announcements (e.g. contacts or lists where we
should get our information out that we're not presently reaching, or
things we should do differently): publicity-feedback at balug.org




From haydenmuhl at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 17 10:15:23 2009
From: haydenmuhl at yahoo.com (Hayden Muhl)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Looking for projects
Message-ID: <845832.42944.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Hi, all.

I was a first timer at the meeting last night, and I'm looking to get involved in one of the several projects currently?underway.? I'll do just about anything, and am a solid coder if there's any of that going on.

Please let me know if you need an extra pair of hands for anything.

- Hayden Muhl


      



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Mar 17 11:32:51 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:32:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPCorps Africa
Message-ID: <5fb387c70903171132q39ad1600r9a144345a2bec69@mail.gmail.com>

FYI...and before anyone questions what this has to do with a LUG, this
project will be deploying 100 GNU/Linux machines in one of the 53
African nations :-)

"OLPCorps Africa is a unique grant program focused specifically on
learning in Africa. Student teams are equipped with the tools,
resources, and know-how to develop grassroots learning environments in
an African country of their choice. OLPC is drawing upon the world's
student leaders to spark a university-led grassroots initiative in
this global learning movement. Through OLPCorps Africa, OLPC is
creating a global network of student leaders who will create a lasting
impact at the local level, build a network of student activists, and
initiate a grant program that will become renown. "

More FAQ at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPCorps_FAQ

A summer internship with real work in an African nation. Would anyone
be interested? Details: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPCorps_Africa
Please pass it along.

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Tue Mar 17 11:35:11 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 11:35:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] OLPCorps Africa
In-Reply-To: <5fb387c70903171132q39ad1600r9a144345a2bec69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5fb387c70903171132q39ad1600r9a144345a2bec69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5fb387c70903171135r1d338fa5od64fda254b9292e3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote:
> FYI...and before anyone questions what this has to do with a LUG, this
> project will be deploying 100 GNU/Linux machines in one of the 53
> African nations :-)

Minor correction: not one but several "of the 53 African nations"

>
> "OLPCorps Africa is a unique grant program focused specifically on
> learning in Africa. Student teams are equipped with the tools,
> resources, and know-how to develop grassroots learning environments in
> an African country of their choice. OLPC is drawing upon the world's
> student leaders to spark a university-led grassroots initiative in
> this global learning movement. Through OLPCorps Africa, OLPC is
> creating a global network of student leaders who will create a lasting
> impact at the local level, build a network of student activists, and
> initiate a grant program that will become renown. "
>
> More FAQ at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPCorps_FAQ
>
> A summer internship with real work in an African nation. Would anyone
> be interested? Details: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPCorps_Africa
> Please pass it along.
>
> Sameer
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Mar 17 13:44:48 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:44:48 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Looking for projects
In-Reply-To: <845832.42944.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <845832.42944.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090317204448.GA30929@sonic.net>


On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 10:15:23AM -0700, Hayden Muhl wrote:
> 
> Hi, all.
> 
> I was a first timer at the meeting last night, and I'm looking to get involved in one of the several projects currently?underway.? I'll do just about anything, and am a solid coder if there's any of that going on.

Not sure what projects you're talking about (SF-LUG specific?
projects that SF-LUG folks happen to be working on?), but:

(1) if you're a student, you should look into Google Summer of Code,
    a great way to get involve in Open Source (you'll have a mentor
    during the process, and get paid $$$ if your project is deemed
    successful)

(2) I've got a lot of projects (games & such) that need love and
    attention, including my big one, Tux Paint :)


PS - I'm actually way out here in Davis.  (But distance is no excuse!
We had 4 guys drive 2hrs from Chico to attend the Davis LUG meeting
last night! :) )

-- 
-bill!
"Tux Paint" - free children's drawing software for Windows / Mac OS X / Linux!
Download it today!  http://www.tuxpaint.org/



From markwoodresume at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 13:53:15 2009
From: markwoodresume at gmail.com (Mark Wood)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:53:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
Message-ID: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>

Dear sf-lug,

When I initially heard about this group, you were meeting at a coffee shop
(Javacat), conveniently located in the Richmond district. But for the last
couple meetings you?ve been meeting downtown at a Chinese restaurant, where
there?s a $13 dinner charge and $5 parking. I realize that?s not a great
deal of money, but in these tough times there are those of us who don?t have
a lot of disposable income, and adding a dinner to this discussion group
seems like a waste of money. And the eating part seems like it could be
distraction from the discussion. And, for me at least, it?s inconvenient to
get to that location, so it also wastes time.

Do you plan to have the meeting at this Chinese restaurant from now on???
Would you consider still having some meetings at the coffee shop?
Your fellow Linux advocate,
Mark
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From jackofnotrades at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 13:59:30 2009
From: jackofnotrades at gmail.com (Jeff Bragg)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:59:30 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
In-Reply-To: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2f8a56f70903171359k5cbb78c3p989c838a4a68bdd6@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like you're talking about BALUG, not SF-LUG.  Other than now
meeting at Cafe Euro (26th and Geary), little has changed in terms of
meetings.

2009/3/17 Mark Wood <markwoodresume at gmail.com>

> Dear sf-lug,
>
> When I initially heard about this group, you were meeting at a coffee shop
> (Javacat), conveniently located in the Richmond district. But for the last
> couple meetings you?ve been meeting downtown at a Chinese restaurant, where
> there?s a $13 dinner charge and $5 parking. I realize that?s not a great
> deal of money, but in these tough times there are those of us who don?t have
> a lot of disposable income, and adding a dinner to this discussion group
> seems like a waste of money. And the eating part seems like it could be
> distraction from the discussion. And, for me at least, it?s inconvenient to
> get to that location, so it also wastes time.
>
> Do you plan to have the meeting at this Chinese restaurant from now on???
> Would you consider still having some meetings at the coffee shop?
> Your fellow Linux advocate,
> Mark
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
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From nbs at sonic.net  Tue Mar 17 14:34:12 2009
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:34:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
In-Reply-To: <2f8a56f70903171359k5cbb78c3p989c838a4a68bdd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
	<2f8a56f70903171359k5cbb78c3p989c838a4a68bdd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090317213412.GA6542@sonic.net>

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 01:59:30PM -0700, Jeff Bragg wrote:
>    It sounds like you're talking about BALUG, not SF-LUG.  Other than now
>    meeting at Cafe Euro (26th and Geary), little has changed in terms of
>    meetings.
> 

Indeed.  BALUG meets in the evenings at a chinese restaurant and
usually has guest speaker and projectors.  SF-LUG meetings that I've
been to were at coffee shops and much more casual.

-bill!



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 14:45:45 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:45:45 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Ken Shaffer <kenshaffer80 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> xorg.conf is still a source of overides, so try adding the VertRefresh line
>> to the monitor section.
>
> I have no idea where the default values are stored these days.
>

I think that the values are stored at

/etc/X11/xorg.conf

Here is what I see there pertaining to the refresh rate:


Section "Monitor"
    Identifier    "Generic Monitor"
    Option        "DPMS"
    HorizSync    28-64
    VertRefresh    43-60
EndSection

I tried pumping up the refresh rates by changing the values as recommended
here:

https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen-resolution-extra/+question/51359

  Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "KVM Host Monitor"
    HorizSync 30-70
    VertRefresh 50-75
    # 'man xorg.conf' says you can set the pixel clock in KHz.
    # This is an UNTESTED example for 10-110 MHz clock:
    #Option "MinClock" "10000"
    #Option "MaxClock" "110000"
  EndSection
but no joy.  Still the same flicker and I am still not seeing any options
other than zero when I click on

System > Preferences > Screen resolution

Any help welcome!

thx in advance.
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From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 17 15:16:29 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:16:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
In-Reply-To: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1237328189.6425.534.camel@jim-laptop>


   the javacat place closes up unpredictably so 
we've moved our meetings to cafe euro on geary 
at 26th avenue, a few blocks west of javacat. 
http://www.sf-lug.com  http://www.sf-lug.org 
   no particular charge, probably the place 
would like you to buy something, but they seem 
easy going. 

   tonight, and every third tuesday each month, 
it's the BALUG group that meets at the four seas 
restaurant in chinatown. 
http://www.balug.org 
   you can attend the talk (around 8 PM) 
without purchasing the $13 dinner; tonight's 
talk seems pretty popular, so you might not 
be able to fit in. they ask you let them know 
if you plan to come and share the dinner 
(family style). 



On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 13:53 -0700, Mark Wood wrote:
> Dear sf-lug,
> 
> When I initially heard about this group, you were meeting at a coffee
> shop (Javacat), conveniently located in the Richmond district. But for
> the last couple meetings you?ve been meeting downtown at a Chinese
> restaurant, where there?s a $13 dinner charge and $5 parking. I
> realize that?s not a great deal of money, but in these tough times
> there are those of us who don?t have a lot of disposable income, and
> adding a dinner to this discussion group seems like a waste of money.
> And the eating part seems like it could be distraction from the
> discussion. And, for me at least, it?s inconvenient to get to that
> location, so it also wastes time.
>  
> Do you plan to have the meeting at this Chinese restaurant from now
> on??? Would you consider still having some meetings at the coffee
> shop? 
> 
> Your fellow Linux advocate,
> Mark
>  
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 17 15:37:18 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:37:18 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
In-Reply-To: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48c54cd80903171353m2561c50evc1d5beeadbe74203@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090317223717.GQ5493@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Mark Wood (markwoodresume at gmail.com):

> Dear sf-lug,
       ^^^^^^
Just an idea:  http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ will help you keep the two 
groups straight.




From markwoodresume at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 15:40:44 2009
From: markwoodresume at gmail.com (Mark Wood)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:40:44 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
Message-ID: <48c54cd80903171540kb44c53dgca75cc032f9e3f69@mail.gmail.com>

OOOOh, my bad! I didn't know there were TWO different groups on here. Sorry.
Mark
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From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 17 15:50:49 2009
From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 15:50:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] we're looking for volunteers this saturday!
In-Reply-To: <845832.42944.qm@web51902.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <829043.17861.qm@web82708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


greetings SF-LUGgers.

just your humble list-admin reminding everyone that the Tenderloin Computer Help Day event is this Saturday, March 21, 2009, from 9:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at 150 Golden Gate Avenue between Jones and Leavenworth.

we still need a few volunteers to assist us with tech support, tech 'triage' and general hospitality.  please contact me offlist for details.  

SF-LUG turnout for this event has been good in the past, and the staff at the St. Anthony's Tech Lab thanks us for helping to make their previous Computer Help Days such a success.

they're hoping we can provide another strong SF-LUG presence at this event, dealing with minor hardware issues, installing appropriate linux distros and demonstrating to folks how linux provides a free, sophisticated and fun alternate solution to computing with Windows, AmigaDOS or OS-X .

thanks!

lx




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 17 16:18:13 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:18:13 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Dinner
In-Reply-To: <48c54cd80903171540kb44c53dgca75cc032f9e3f69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48c54cd80903171540kb44c53dgca75cc032f9e3f69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090317231813.GR5493@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Mark Wood (markwoodresume at gmail.com):

> OOOOh, my bad! I didn't know there were TWO different groups on here. Sorry.

This is a mailing list for and of SF-LUG.  BALUG has its own, entirely
separate mailing lists on a different machine within its own Internet
domain.  However:

Someone recently posted an announcement of tonight's BALUG meeting to
this and a significant number of Bay Area technical mailing lists.  It
said "BALUG meeting".  It didn't say "SF-LUG meeting".

Anyway, no harm; no foul.  The names are easy to confuse.  And the good
news is:  You might enjoy BALUG and the Four Seas Restaurant, too.




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 16:19:01 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:19:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>

2 Things: First what is the refresh rate you see from xrandr?  Have
you tried setting the refresh rate with xrandr?  Usually this tool
does what you need without editing xorg.conf.  Second: I assume you do
this but make sure you are restarting X after you edit Xorg.conf,
otherwise there's no effect.

PS: There is an xrandr GUI called urandr but I haven't used it.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 16:50:25 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:50:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171637j5150bb39t7b217981cdeba865@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171637j5150bb39t7b217981cdeba865@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171650y2da9ef26u42ed9e0aa50c9331@mail.gmail.com>

oops,

I forgot to hit reply-all on this email.  Sorry!

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>wrote:

> hi,
>
> On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jesse Zbikowski <
> embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2 Things: First what is the refresh rate you see from xrandr?
>
>
> cje at rb:~$ xrandr
> Screen 0: minimum 640 x 350, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 768
> default connected 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
>    1024x768        0.0*
>    800x600         0.0
>    720x400         0.0
>    640x480         0.0
>    640x350         0.0
> cje at rb:~$
>
>
>
>> Have
>> you tried setting the refresh rate with xrandr?
>
>
> No, I don't know how to use xrandr.
>
>
>> Usually this tool
>> does what you need without editing xorg.conf.  Second: I assume you do
>> this but make sure you are restarting X after you edit Xorg.conf,
>> otherwise there's no effect.
>
>
> Yes, I had rebooted completely.
>
>>
>>
>> PS: There is an xrandr GUI called urandr but I haven't used it.
>
>
> thx, I will check that out now and see if I can make the changes.
>
> c u
>
>
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 16:53:32 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:53:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171653g6397246ejf0a08282de0a2940@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jesse Zbikowski <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Have
> you tried setting the refresh rate with xrandr?


still working on this.


> PS: There is an xrandr GUI called urandr but I haven't used it.
>

I did not find urandr in my Synaptic repositories, but I did find lxrandr
and grandr and gnome-randr-applet but none of those tools allowed me to
change the refresh rates available to me.  They allowed me to choose from an
array of choices; but the problem is that my choice is limited to one
defective choice for refresh rates: 0 Hz.  I am hoping to be able to change
to 75 Hz, which is the refresh rate that I had on this same machine under
Hardy.

thx!
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From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar 17 16:59:41 2009
From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] full info on volunteers for saturday's event
Message-ID: <999415.87234.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


hi gang.

unfortunately, the online sign-up webpage for this saturday's event is broken.  

i got the full text from that page, and have posted it up here:
http://oddernmart.comuf.com/1_9_Support.html

as before, if you would like to volunteer, please contact me offlist so i can enter you into the spreadsheet.  we could use help on friday from 1:30 to 4pm to set up the linux machines, and and from 9am until 3pm for the event on saturday.

thanks!

lx




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 17:19:15 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:19:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jesse Zbikowski <embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com
> wrote:

>

> Have
> you tried setting the refresh rate with xrandr?


After probing around, it appears that xrandr and it various GUI applets will
allow you only to chose from previously available settings.  My problem is
providing myself with more settings from which to choose.

I have been told on an IRC channel that I could try downloading the radeonhd
driver, which I have, but the guy didn't know how to "turn on" the driver
once I had downloaded it.

So it seems that is what I need to do now.   Any suggestions anyone?
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 17:54:25 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:54:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Okay, I have come up with a short term solution to my problem.  I have
clicked on

System > Administration > Hardware drivers

and I have activated the non-Free ATI/AMD FGLRX graphics driver.  I will
have to hang my head in shame and use that under Intrepid for another month
or so until Jaunty is final and ready.  Hardy was able to handle the ATI VGA
controller card, and so hopefully Jaunty will also be able to handle it.

But for the meantime, I will be able to avoid having headaches from looking
at a screen with flicker.  That is great.

Thanks to all of you for your help!

I do recommend the Ubuntu Freenode IRC channel, because they are really
quite helpful.

Thanks to everyone who responded on this thread!

c u
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From rafa-el at att.net  Tue Mar 17 18:08:09 2009
From: rafa-el at att.net (Rafael Vanoni)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:08:09 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
Message-ID: <49C04979.4070904@att.net>

Hi folks, just joined the list.

I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm 
interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic, 
ProTools, ..

Thanks,
Rafael




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 17 18:17:54 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:17:54 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> Okay, I have come up with a short term solution to my problem.  I have
> clicked on
> 
> System > Administration > Hardware drivers
> 
> and I have activated the non-Free ATI/AMD FGLRX graphics driver.


Suggestion:  Figure out what this _really_ did.  Post details.

You've cited a "short-term solution" that has meaning only within a
particular (and _unidentified_) software tool, that is presumably 
part of Ubuntu's GNOME suite.  So, the information you posted is 
meaningful only to a tiny sliver of Linux users, and completely
meaningless to everyone else -- unless they're willing to replicate your
configuration, just to see what you're talking about (which won't
happen).

Very likely, the tool fetched some (unidentified) package, installed
it, then either made some edit to the configuration files in
/etc/event.d/ or to /etc/xorg.cong (but I doubt the latter even exists
in your distro).  Foregoing is intended as pointers to get you started:
I cannot follow up to investigate further.

Some problems are to some degree distro- and tool-specific.  Others are
not.  Information expressed in a needlessly tool-specific or
distro-specific manner does almost nothing for the community, and is a
missed opportunity.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 18:54:55 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:54:55 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171854p27c7b8a1k6f21d61280b76355@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>
> > Okay, I have come up with a short term solution to my problem.  I have
> > clicked on
> >
> > System > Administration > Hardware drivers
> >
> > and I have activated the non-Free ATI/AMD FGLRX graphics driver.
>
>
> Suggestion:  Figure out what this _really_ did.  Post details.


Please see below.


> You've cited a "short-term solution" that has meaning only within a
> particular (and _unidentified_)


As I said, it was the non-Free ATI/AMD FGLRX graphics driver.


> software tool, that is presumably
> part of Ubuntu's GNOME suite.


More details below.


> Very likely, the tool fetched some (unidentified) package, installed
> it, then either made some edit to the configuration files in
> /etc/event.d/ or to /etc/xorg.cong (but I doubt the latter even exists
> in your distro).
>

Apparently, what happened is that enabling the ATI FGLRX driver allowed me
to chose from a wide range of screen resolution and refresh rates.  Before I
enabled this non-Free driver, when I ran xrandr from the console, all I
could see was this:

cje at rb:~$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 640 x 350, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1024 x 768
default connected 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
   1024x768        0.0*
   800x600         0.0
   720x400         0.0
   640x480         0.0
   640x350         0.0
cje at rb:~$

Right after I upgraded to Intrepid, here is what my xorg.conf file looked
like:

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier    "Generic Monitor"
    Option        "DPMS"
    HorizSync    28-64
    VertRefresh    43-60
EndSection

When I tried to change screen resolutions by clicking on System >
Preferences > Screen Resolution, all I saw was this:

http://launchpadlibrarian.net/24025567/bug_screen_resolution.jpg

In other words, I could only choose 1024 X 768 at 0 hz!

Following up on this thread, I tried pumping up the refresh rates by
changing the values as recommended here:

https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/screen-resolution-extra/+question/51359

  Section "Monitor"
    Identifier "KVM Host Monitor"
    HorizSync 30-70
    VertRefresh 50-75
    # 'man xorg.conf' says you can set the pixel clock in KHz.
    # This is an UNTESTED example for 10-110 MHz clock:
    #Option "MinClock" "10000"
    #Option "MaxClock" "110000"
  EndSection
but no joy.  Still the same flicker and I am still not seeing any options
other than zero when I click on

System > Preferences > Screen resolution

However, after I enabled the non-Free ATI FGLRX driver, I was able to chose
from a wide variety of settings:
cje at rb:~$ xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1024 x 768, maximum 1280 x 1024
default connected 1024x768+0+0 0mm x 0mm
   1280x1024      60.0     47.0     43.0
   1024x768       75.0*    72.0     70.0     60.0     43.0
   800x600        75.0     72.0     70.0     60.0     56.0
   640x480        75.0     72.0     60.0
   640x350        70.0
   1280x960       60.0
   1280x768       60.0
   1152x864       75.0     70.0     60.0     47.0     43.0
   640x400        75.0     60.0
   512x384        75.0
   400x300        75.0     60.0
   320x240        75.0     60.0
   320x200        75.0     60.0
cje at rb:~$ gksudo gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf

Now, my problem is solved, except that I am using a non-Free driver.  I am
hoping that problem will resolve with Jaunty.  But at least I can choose the
screen resolution that I need, whereas before I downloaded the non-Free ATI
FGLRX driver, I was not able to do so.  Before enabling the non-Free
drivers, I was using the FOSS radeohd drivers (there are two of them) which
you can find by searching your repositories for radeonhd

c u
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 17 19:26:16 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:26:16 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171854p27c7b8a1k6f21d61280b76355@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>
	<4b5781040903171854p27c7b8a1k6f21d61280b76355@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090318022615.GN28192@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> > Suggestion:  Figure out what this _really_ did.  Post details.
> 
> 
> Please see below.

OK, I skim-read all 112 lines.

I looked in vain for a recounting of what specific change occurred 
in your system configuration files, when you used the still-unidentified
tools to fetch unspecified packages and make unspecified changes.

You basically ignored -- and more than likely didn't follow -- my point.

For the sake of collective knowledge, here's a different tack to
approach the same topic.  Imagine that I wanted to either duplicate 
or fully understand what you did.  Your account started out with using
some GNOME menu operation to "enable [sic] the ATI FGLRX driver" --
which in plain English means, first, you ran process
/usr/bin/gnome-device-manager.  If you'd bothered to look at the process
table, you'd have known that, but of course you didn't.

You checked some checkbox in the gnome-device-manager UI that, in turn,
caused it to add lines in /etc/apt/sources.list for the "restricted" 
repositories, fetch those repositories' package indexes, and fetched
packages linux-restricted-modules and restricted-manager, then installed
that package.  

gnome-device-manager then spawned restricted-manager, which very likely
fetched _some_ tarball (or not a .deb, in any event) of the FGLRX
binary-only X11 and kernel drivers, probably from somewhere within
http://ati.amd.com/, which it probably landed to temp files in /tmp, and
then ran the ATI installer while suppressing its output.  That installer
made changes to your kernel's runtime module set, and possibly -- or
maybe not -- made some tweaks to your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file.  (There's
an outside chance that those changes went to your /etc/event.d/ tree,
instead, since I believe Ubuntu's among those distros trying to get rid
of xorg.conf, but on balance I doubt it.)

Those xorg.conf changes are what are most important, but you said
nothing about them at all, and instead quoted a bit over 100 lines of
missing the point completely and pasting stuff that's not relevant
to my suggestion.

(At this point, no, I really don't need you to post your xorg.conf.)




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Tue Mar 17 19:39:49 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:39:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <20090318022615.GN28192@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>
	<4b5781040903171854p27c7b8a1k6f21d61280b76355@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318022615.GN28192@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903171939x5a548500q8751b96bd362c39c@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>
> You basically ignored -- and more than likely didn't follow -- my point.
>

Didn't understand it.  You have to remember that I am basically a very
simple end user who has lots of trouble with the CLI.
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From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 17 20:00:06 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:00:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
In-Reply-To: <49C04979.4070904@att.net>
References: <49C04979.4070904@att.net>
Message-ID: <1237345206.6434.7.camel@jim-laptop>


   i'd like to know myself. i've got a fairly 
fast box that i could use, tho' last time i 
tried, i failed to get ardour properly 
installed and running. you wanna help me? 
jim 



On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 18:08 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
> Hi folks, just joined the list.
> 
> I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm 
> interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic, 
> ProTools, ..
> 
> Thanks,
> Rafael
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 17 20:14:01 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:14:01 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] problems with refresh rate under Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040903171939x5a548500q8751b96bd362c39c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b5781040903141525u700eee5bl363aa6c1959c90f4@mail.gmail.com>
	<dc4b6aae0903142056y7d0e27a1keb75b18c35aa6fc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171445l166bcbbm8ffe345cda43c6a4@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903171619x479bb2een2b3ac9d15c861020@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171719i7337e97ekf33aa6e4cd1b249c@mail.gmail.com>
	<4b5781040903171754v720d2099r2583d97ee9a9ece3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318011754.GS5493@linuxmafia.com>
	<4b5781040903171854p27c7b8a1k6f21d61280b76355@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090318022615.GN28192@linuxmafia.com>
	<4b5781040903171939x5a548500q8751b96bd362c39c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090318031401.GP28192@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):

> > You basically ignored -- and more than likely didn't follow -- my point.
> 
> Didn't understand it.  You have to remember that I am basically a very
> simple end user who has lots of trouble with the CLI.

Not a problem.  Just a suggestion, and I hope you take this in the 
spirit intended:

If you don't _understand_ a request, it's better to say "I'm sorry, but
I don't follow [point foo]" than to post 112 lines of stuff that you
have no particular reason to believe is relevant.  Avoids time wasteage.



Getting back to my point:  If, say, someone is having problems with X
configuration, I'm going to say things like:

   OK, does typing 
   lsmod | grep nvidia | awk '{print $1}'
   at a shell prompt produce output like

   nvidia
   i2c_core
   agpgart

   ...or something like that?

And I might say:

   Please go to a shell prompt and do
   cd /etc/X11
   grep -B 2 -A 2 Xinerama xorg.conf

   Does that produce something like this?

   Section "ServerFlags"
       Option         "Xinerama" "true"
   EndSection
   

Or, if the guy/gal is reporting problems with networking, I'm likely to
say:

   Please go to a shell prompt and type the following commands, and 
   copy/paste exactly what they return into a file, and post the 
   file as plaintext, inline in the body of your reply to this message:

   /sbin/ifconfig -a
   /sbin/route -n
   cat /etc/resolv.conf
   cat /etc/nsswitch.conf

I ask for his/her network information in that specific way because 
it's unambiguous and doesn't depend on high-level tools that I probably
don't have (and am not willing to install just for one occasion), and
might not be working right -- and because he/she can convey the exact
state of the system with zero ambiguity using nothing more sophisticated
than a mouse clipboard.

And please note that, in the above, I'm not asking the user to
understand what lsmod, grep, and awk are doing.  I'm just asking him/her
to copy and paste the commands to a shell prompt -- and copy/paste 
back what gets shown.

If, by contrast, the user insists on saying "Well, I go to System 
tools > Network > configuration, and do blah-blah-blah in the fill-in
fields", that's bloody useless, even if the guy offers to send a
screenshot.





From rafa-el at att.net  Tue Mar 17 21:46:32 2009
From: rafa-el at att.net (Rafael Vanoni)
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:46:32 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
In-Reply-To: <1237345206.6434.7.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <49C04979.4070904@att.net> <1237345206.6434.7.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <49C07CA8.6080408@att.net>

jim wrote:
>    i'd like to know myself. i've got a fairly 
> fast box that i could use, tho' last time i 
> tried, i failed to get ardour properly 
> installed and running. you wanna help me? 
> jim 

I've just installed it myself. I know my way around sequencers and 
mixers, but not used to audio in Linux at all.

While searching the web I found a distro called 64 Studio. Ever heard of it?

Rafael

> 
> On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 18:08 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
>> Hi folks, just joined the list.
>>
>> I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm 
>> interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic, 
>> ProTools, ..
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rafael
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
> 
> 




From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 18 08:14:44 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 07:14:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
In-Reply-To: <49C07CA8.6080408@att.net>
References: <49C04979.4070904@att.net> <1237345206.6434.7.camel@jim-laptop>
	<49C07CA8.6080408@att.net>
Message-ID: <1237389284.6434.27.camel@jim-laptop>



   i've heard of studio 64, but just. 

   i think one of my problems is that i have 
a very vanilla box and it needs some hardware 
help. i'm always suspicious of device drivers 
and other modules missing or needing libraries 
or some such; error messages help, package 
managers help.... 
   i'm up for sharing the pain. i've got okay 
command line skills and am a bit familiar with 
GUI stuff. i'd certainly like to learn audio 
on linux. 

   did you go to the BALUG meeting about audio 
on linux last night? 

   do you know about the Linux-Audio-User (LAU) 
mailing list? 
Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user

   i just learned about linuxmusicians.com 
http://linuxmusicians.com/ 



On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 21:46 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
> jim wrote:
> >    i'd like to know myself. i've got a fairly 
> > fast box that i could use, tho' last time i 
> > tried, i failed to get ardour properly 
> > installed and running. you wanna help me? 
> > jim 
> 
> I've just installed it myself. I know my way around sequencers and 
> mixers, but not used to audio in Linux at all.
> 
> While searching the web I found a distro called 64 Studio. Ever heard of it?
> 
> Rafael
> 
> > 
> > On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 18:08 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
> >> Hi folks, just joined the list.
> >>
> >> I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm 
> >> interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic, 
> >> ProTools, ..
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Rafael
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sf-lug mailing list
> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >>
> > 
> > 
> 




From rafa-el at att.net  Wed Mar 18 16:02:38 2009
From: rafa-el at att.net (Rafael Vanoni)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:02:38 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
In-Reply-To: <1237389284.6434.27.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <49C04979.4070904@att.net> <1237345206.6434.7.camel@jim-laptop>	
	<49C07CA8.6080408@att.net> <1237389284.6434.27.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <49C17D8E.4080706@att.net>

jim wrote:
> 
>    i've heard of studio 64, but just. 
> 
>    i think one of my problems is that i have 
> a very vanilla box and it needs some hardware 
> help. i'm always suspicious of device drivers 
> and other modules missing or needing libraries 
> or some such; error messages help, package 
> managers help.... 
>    i'm up for sharing the pain. i've got okay 
> command line skills and am a bit familiar with 
> GUI stuff. i'd certainly like to learn audio 
> on linux. 

Same here, I'll keep you posted on how things evolve here.

>    did you go to the BALUG meeting about audio 
> on linux last night? 

No, had to work late :/

>    do you know about the Linux-Audio-User (LAU) 
> mailing list? 
> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
> 
>    i just learned about linuxmusicians.com 
> http://linuxmusicians.com/ 

I didn't, thanks for the pointers.

cheers,
Rafael

> 
> On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 21:46 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
>> jim wrote:
>>>    i'd like to know myself. i've got a fairly 
>>> fast box that i could use, tho' last time i 
>>> tried, i failed to get ardour properly 
>>> installed and running. you wanna help me? 
>>> jim 
>> I've just installed it myself. I know my way around sequencers and 
>> mixers, but not used to audio in Linux at all.
>>
>> While searching the web I found a distro called 64 Studio. Ever heard of it?
>>
>> Rafael
>>
>>> On Tue, 2009-03-17 at 18:08 -0700, Rafael Vanoni wrote:
>>>> Hi folks, just joined the list.
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm 
>>>> interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic, 
>>>> ProTools, ..
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rafael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>>
>>>
> 
> 





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Wed Mar 18 16:32:46 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 16:32:46 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Ardour
In-Reply-To: <49C04979.4070904@att.net>
References: <49C04979.4070904@att.net>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903181632t362559efjb614c83e192fe533@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Tue, Mar 17, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Rafael Vanoni <rafa-el at att.net> wrote:

> Hi folks, just joined the list.
>
> I was wondering if there are any Ardour users in the group? I'm
> interested in how it compares to proprietary solutions like Logic,
> ProTools, ..
>

I haven't used the proprietary tools, but I have used Ardour a bit, but then
went back to Audacity because of the faster (simpler) GUI.  Ardour is a
pro-level tool.  It will do back-flips if you want it to.
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From bill at wards.net  Thu Mar 19 12:00:06 2009
From: bill at wards.net (bill at wards.net)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:00:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] NEXT WEEK: PenLUG meeting 03/26/2009
Message-ID: <E1LkNTK-0004iS-3d@mail.westernweb.com>

PENINSULA LINUX USERS' GROUP (PenLUG) PRESENTS:

   +------------------------------------+
   |Date:    |Thursday, March 26th, 2009|
   |---------+--------------------------|
   |Time:    |6:00 - 8:00 PM            |
   |---------+--------------------------|
   |         |Bayshore Technology Park  |
   |Location:|1300 Island Drive         |
   |         |Redwood City, CA 94065    |
   |         |Suite 106 - Training Room |
   |---------+--------------------------|
   |RSVP:    |Facebook: (coming soon)   |
   |         |or mail rsvp at penlug.org   |
   +------------------------------------+

   Agenda:

     * 2:00 PM - 7:00 PM Electronics recycling by ACCRC
     * 6:00 PM Free pizza arrives
     * 6:15 PM Free book giveaways or other prizes
     * 6:30 PM Presentation begins
     * 8:00 PM Meeting ends

  Electronics Recycling by ACCRC

   Please come early to this meeting and bring all your old electronics -
   computers, stereo, TV, telephone, or anything else that has had electrons
   flowing through it (except for major appliances such as refrigerators,
   washer/dryer, air conditioner, etc.). ACCRC will be on hand to collect
   them from 2pm-7pm. Look for the big yellow Penske truck in the parking
   lot. Special thanks to Qualys and Harvest Properties (the building
   management company) for making this possible.

  Kdenlive - Non-linear video editor

   Kdenlive is an easy-to-use powerful, multi-track, multi-format non-linear
   video editor for KDE4. Dan Dennedy is the co-developer and current
   maintainer of MLT, the multimedia processing engine for kdenlive as well
   as contributor to kdenlive. He will be on-hand to demonstrate kdenlive and
   answer your questions. If you have a HDV camcorder, please bring it and we
   will put to test as he does not have one with which to demonstrate.

  Dan Dennedy

   Dan Dennedy has been an open source and Linux developer for around 7
   years. He has worked on IEEE 1394 (FireWire) in the Linux kernel and
   various 1394- and DV-related libraries and applications. More recently, he
   has been working with MLT, SDI video I/O, and kdenlive. He moved to the
   San Francisco Bay Area around 3 years ago with his wife and 3 kids. He
   works full time for MobiTV for the past 4 years as lead software engineer
   in the areas of digital media and streaming technology.

   Dan was the speaker at the November 2008 meeting, presenting Kino, an
   older Linux video editing system.

RSVP

  Although it is not required, we like to have an idea of how many
  people to expect, so if possible please email rsvp at penlug.org if you
  are planning to attend.

GETTING THERE

  For information on getting to the meeting, please see:
    http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/DrivingDirectionsOpenStreetMap
    http://www.penlug.org/twiki/bin/view/Home/TransitDirectionsOpenStreetMap
    http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1370+Willow+Rd,+Menlo+Park,+CA+94025

  Traffic on 101 can be pretty bad in the evening, so we encourage you
  to check traffic conditions before driving by dialing 5-1-1 on your
  phone or visiting www.511.org, and if possible to take public transit
  (best bet: bicycle via Caltrain) or carpool to this meeting.

MORE INFORMATION

  See www.penlug.org for more information.


This notice is being sent to the following mailing lists:
	members at penlug.org
	announce at penlug.org
	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
	balug-talk at lists.balug.org
	svlug at lists.svlug.org
	svevents at yahoogroups.com
	vox at lists.lugod.org

  Please reply to suggest any additions or other changes.



From bill at wards.net  Thu Mar 19 13:03:11 2009
From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:03:11 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [PenLUG] Ajax and Python courses at Foothill College
In-Reply-To: <409356.92900.qm@web31307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <409356.92900.qm@web31307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3d2fe1780903191303l5f6b60bax981bc5a0eb60ab78@mail.gmail.com>

Please do not simultaneously post to multiple mailing lists... when people
reply-all, if they're not on all the lists (I am, so this reply should work,
but be careful if you reply to it) then some of the messages will bounce or
be held for moderation, causing work for the moderators.

Send a separate message to each mailing list instead.

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Elaine <lavendula6654 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Foothill College is offering two courses of interest to web application
> software developers: Ajax and Python. These 11- week courses are held
> weekday evenings from April through June at the Middlefield campus in Palo
> Alto.
>
> If you would like to learn Application Software Development with Ajax, the
> course meets Wednesday evenings, 6:00 pm - 9:40 pm. The course is designed
> for students who are already familiar with some type of programming, and
> have introductory knowledge of JavaScript and html. For more information, go
> to:
> http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
> and choose Department: ?COIN?, quarter: ?Spring 2009?, and course number
> ?71?.
>
> If you would like to learn Python, the course meets Monday evenings and is
> also designed for students who are familiar with some type of programming.
> We will use the textbook ?Core Python? by Wesley Chun, and part of the work
> of the course will involve an authentic team project. For more information,
> go to:
> http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
> and choose Department: ?CIS?, quarter: ?Spring 2009?, and course number
> ?68K?.
>
> For each of these classes, Foothill  charges $50 + student fees for
> California residents. If you would like to sign up for a class, please
> register beforehand by going to:
> http://www.foothill.fhda.edu/reg/index.php
> If you do not register ahead of time, the class you want may be cancelled!
>
> If you have questions, you can contact the instructor at:
> haightElaine at foothill.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PenLUG-Members mailing list
> PenLUG-Members at penlug.org
> http://www.penlug.org/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members
>
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From Sarah at cloudmade.com  Thu Mar 19 13:57:22 2009
From: Sarah at cloudmade.com (Sarah Manley)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:57:22 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Join us for an OpenStreetMap mapping party in Concord next
	weekend!
Message-ID: <16A6E087-B1C4-45C3-B871-1EB2C471A87F@cloudmade.com>

Come and join us for another East Bay Mapping Party!

OpenStreetMap is an online, open source mapping project, that has  
100,000 contributors worldwide. OpenStreetMap can be contributed to,  
edited and used by anyone anywhere at anytime.

Mapping parties are social events where experienced and new mappers  
can meet to share and learn more about the project. The event is open  
to everyone, from open source enthusiasts, cyclists, GIS  
professionals, geocachers, and beyond. GPS units available for  
attendees to use throughout the day.  The first hour will be dedicated  
to introducing OSM and learning how to use the GPS units. The second  
and third hour will be time for mapping (by foots, car or bike), and  
the last two hours will be focused on using the OSM editors. Feel free  
to attend for the entire day (or the whole weekend) or stop by for one  
of the mini-tutorials.


* When: Saturday March 28th and Sunday March 29th, 11am-4pm
* Where: Panama Red Coffee Company (also listed as Panama Bay Cafe),
	         2151 Salvio Street, SuiteK Concord, CA 94520
* http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Concord_Mapping_Party_Mar2009


Feel free to send me questions/comments and suggestions.

Best,
Sarah Manley



Sarah Manley
Sarah at cloudmade.com
Cell: 631-338-3815
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley




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From lavendula6654 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 19 12:58:20 2009
From: lavendula6654 at yahoo.com (Elaine)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 12:58:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Ajax and Python courses at Foothill College
Message-ID: <409356.92900.qm@web31307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Foothill College is offering two courses of interest to web application software developers: Ajax and Python. These 11- week courses are held weekday evenings from April through June at the Middlefield campus in Palo Alto.

If you would like to learn Application Software Development with Ajax, the course meets Wednesday evenings, 6:00 pm - 9:40 pm. The course is designed for students who are already familiar with some type of programming, and have introductory knowledge of JavaScript and html. For more information, go to:
http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
and choose Department: ?COIN?, quarter: ?Spring 2009?, and course number ?71?.

If you would like to learn Python, the course meets Monday evenings and is also designed for students who are familiar with some type of programming. We will use the textbook ?Core Python? by Wesley Chun, and part of the work of the course will involve an authentic team project. For more information, go to:
http://www.foothill.edu/schedule/schedule.php
and choose Department: ?CIS?, quarter: ?Spring 2009?, and course number ?68K?.

For each of these classes, Foothill  charges $50 + student fees for California residents. If you would like to sign up for a class, please register beforehand by going to:
http://www.foothill.fhda.edu/reg/index.php
If you do not register ahead of time, the class you want may be cancelled!
 
If you have questions, you can contact the instructor at:
haightElaine at foothill.edu




      



From sverma at sfsu.edu  Thu Mar 19 22:08:24 2009
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:08:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Document Freedom Day
Message-ID: <5fb387c70903192208u5c3fa7e3t27bc8c516dbf7721@mail.gmail.com>

...is on the 25th. Here's an e-mail I got from Software Freedom International.

Sameer
-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


====Forwarded mail===

Software Freedom International, the worldwide organizer of the annual
Software Freedom Day, encourages all SFD teams to support the Document
Freedom Day 2009 (DFD 2009) celebration (http://documentfreedom.org/)
on 25 March 2009. DFD 2009 aims to raise awareness on the importance
of accessible document formats and open standards in everyone's day to
day activities.

Open standards are agreed document definitions which are available to
the public to review and use. They cannot depend on formats or
protocols that are not open standards themselves. The definitions of
these open standards are free from legal and technical restrictions
that limit their use, and can be easily implemented in multiple
environments - so they can be used on PCs, iPods, Playstations and
whatever computing environments we'll be using in 50 years time.

Open standards protect governments, businesses and the wider community
of computer users from vendor and data lock-ins. Such lock-ins
obstruct users from exercising their full freedom in software and the
information they access. Computers have only become part of daily life
in the last twenty or thirty years, and yet already there are
documents that, due to closed formats, we are unable to easily access
using modern software.

Software freedom will not be complete without open standards and open
document formats. Together, they ensure that free and open source
software can be created and developed to implement open standards to
benefit millions of users worldwide.

The Software Freedom Day and Document Freedom Day teams are united in
advancing information and software freedom for everyone. Find out
where your closest DFD 2009 team is by visiting the website
(http://documentfreedom.org/) - and if there isn't one, why not plan
your own event?

REFERENCE:
Rick Bahague
rick at cp-union.com
Publicity officer, Software Freedom International



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Mar 20 13:59:49 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:59:49 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Reminder! Tomorrow is the Tenderloin Computer Help Day
	event
Message-ID: <4b5781040903201359r6bafd57dk98b2078f1fea4f30@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Just a reminder that there will be another Tenderloin Computer Help Day
tomorrow, Saturday, March 21, 2009, from 9:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at 150 Golden
Gate Avenue between Jones and Leavenworth

http://www.computerhelpdays.org/tenderloin-computer-help-days.html

In the past, we have had good turn-out from the Linux crowd, but this time
we would like to also ask people to take a moment to sign up in advance, at
the links provided at that page.  Thanks either way for considering my
request!  The announcement of the event at the above-linked page is as
follows:

**************

Tenderloin Computer Help Days

Network Ministries, St Anthony Foundation and other Tenderloin agencies
strive to increase technology use by offering computer classes and labs. But
many Tenderloin residents may have old or obsolete computer equipment and
software is often too expensive.

Event goals:
1. To create a community of computer users in the Tenderloin,
2. Make Clients more comfortable in mainstream society
3. Make technology and computer repair culturally and financially accessible

At this event, volunteers provide free technical support, demonstrate and
install open source operating and virus protection software and provide
one-on-one computer and Internet tutoring.  rticipants will register in
advance for whatever services they need.

1. Hospitality - Greet participants and direct them to the appropriate
activity;

During the event, volunteers greet people on the street and invite them to
come up to the event. Volunteers then meet people at the top of the stairs
and ask a few questions about their needs for the event. Repair needs are
referred to the Repair Room. Workshop are directed to a classroom. Others
are directed to the computer stations in the computer lab for more
information and individual attention.

Volunteers are needed to set up and refresh refreshments for the volunteers
and participants, to welcome volunteers and participants and to direct
participants to the appropriate activity. Volunteers may also be asked to
distribute information about the event to people outside the event.

2.  Tech Triage and Tech Support - Provide simple technical support for
existing computers sign up here

The Tech Triage volunteer matches incoming users with the
technicalvolunteers best suited to help them.  Each participant makes an
appointment in advance. When they make their appointment and repair request,
they are interviewed for basic information about their problem, the
specifications of their machines, and operating systems (if known). When the
participant arrives for their repair appointment, the Tech Triage volunteer
quickly assesses the broad outlines of the user's needs, and sends them to
most suitable available tech volunteer for those problems.

If the problem cannot be solved with the resources at the event, the Triage
Volunteer may provide other options or solutions for their problems. The
Tech Triage Volunteer must be familiar with Windows and Linux-based
operating systems and PC-based hardwared and software. Friendly, outgoing
and bi-lingual preferred.

Tech support volunteers work with computer problems that may include:

1.   Hardware and software problem diagnosis
2.   Installing and demonstrating software updates and trouble-shooting
hardware problems
3.   Installing and demonstrating anti-virus and privacy protection software
4.   Performing simple repairs to existing personal computer equipment.

Volunteers bring items that would help in the repair of PC's. For example:
* tools such as screw drivers and needle nose pliers
* install CDs (OSes, virus scanners, etc)
* blank CDs
* spare computer parts (old HDs, power supplies, cables, etc)
* And anything else they think may be useful

3.  One-on-one Tutoring and Advice - Provide one-on-one tutoring to
demonstrate how to browse the Internet to find useful information and
resources. sign up now

Volunteers work one-on-one with Tenderloin residents to demonstrate software
and online resources that will help with their daily lives. Topics are
determined by the clients and their interests. Possible topics include job
search and casual labor resources, how to set up an email account, online
GED or other classes, Internet safety, how to make a simple flyer, and
additional training opportunities. No previous teaching or training
experience necessary - just patience and enthusiasm.

Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
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From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net  Sat Mar 21 08:57:47 2009
From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
Message-ID: <806002.64800.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


hi gang.

i'm down here with christian at 150 golden gate avenue and we are waiting to open the doors to the public.  

we've got four stations set up with ubuntu in the back, and are anticipating a fair amount of interest in the OS.  

as mentioned last week, sf-luggers are encouraged to come down and participate, your help will definitely be appreciated!  

we'll be open from 10am until 2pm.

thanks!

lx

p.s.: i just overheard one of the volunteers say something about getting "...lots of donuts"  :)





From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 09:02:08 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:02:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
In-Reply-To: <806002.64800.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <806002.64800.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903210902v6f108929qc7253231431a55ac@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Lx Rudis <lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>
> p.s.: i just overheard one of the volunteers say something about getting
> "...lots of donuts"  :)
>

It's true!  We are swimming in donuts!  LOL
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From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 09:14:12 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:14:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
In-Reply-To: <806002.64800.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <806002.64800.qm@web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903210914k31f289e6ga4cf3ddf06a3a139@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a video showing what the Tenderloin Computer Help Day is all about!

http://is.gd/okCo
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From donnaccincinnati at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 21 14:43:16 2009
From: donnaccincinnati at yahoo.com (donna curtis)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 14:43:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Saying hi
Message-ID: <680488.80229.qm@web63504.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

Hi, I am a new user.? I would like to come to your next meeting.? When will the next meeting be.? Thanks, Donna.



      
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From bliss at sfo.com  Sat Mar 21 15:20:33 2009
From: bliss at sfo.com (Bobbie Sellers)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 15:20:33 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Saying hi
In-Reply-To: <680488.80229.qm@web63504.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
References: <680488.80229.qm@web63504.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <49C56831.8050004@sfo.com>

donna curtis wrote:
> Hi, I am a new user.  I would like to come to your next meeting.  When will the next meeting be.  Thanks, Donna.
>
>
>
>       
>   
>   
    Sunday April 5 from 11 AM to 1 PM nominally, at the Cafe Euro at 
26th and Geary.

    Next one after that will be on Monday 20 April at the same location 
from  6 to 8 PM.

    later
    Bobbie Sellers



From pmpope at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:13:36 2009
From: pmpope at gmail.com (pmpope)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:13:36 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Tenderloin Computer Help Day! What a Blast!
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1237662003.11644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.3.1237662003.11644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <1237677216.6384.25.camel@EdgeData>

I have had such a great time helping the people and meeting this group.
Not only was I able to put faces with names, I was also able to put
issues with machines. To be able to interact in this fashion with the
casual user has been quite inspiring. I am interested in becoming
involved (& hopefully ingrained) into this Lug for many upcoming actions
and discussions.

Everyone seems very approachable. Christian, Lx, & Scott have all made
this experience quite enriching. & of course,... all the 'customers'
really livened things up. I really could see that there are more people
in general public seeking these solutions & the sf-lug is able to
accommodate.

Peace
PMPope

On Sat, 2009-03-21 at 12:00 -0700, sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com wrote:
> Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to
> 	sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World-Wide Web, visit
> 	http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> or, via e-mail, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Reminder! Tomorrow is the Tenderloin Computer Help Day	event
>       (Christian Einfeldt)
>    2. tech help day at st. anthony's (Lx Rudis)
>    3. Re: tech help day at st. anthony's (Christian Einfeldt)
>    4. Re: tech help day at st. anthony's (Christian Einfeldt)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:59:49 -0700
> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] Reminder! Tomorrow is the Tenderloin Computer Help
> 	Day	event
> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<4b5781040903201359r6bafd57dk98b2078f1fea4f30 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> hi,
> 
> Just a reminder that there will be another Tenderloin Computer Help Day
> tomorrow, Saturday, March 21, 2009, from 9:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. at 150 Golden
> Gate Avenue between Jones and Leavenworth
> 
> http://www.computerhelpdays.org/tenderloin-computer-help-days.html
> 
> In the past, we have had good turn-out from the Linux crowd, but this time
> we would like to also ask people to take a moment to sign up in advance, at
> the links provided at that page.  Thanks either way for considering my
> request!  The announcement of the event at the above-linked page is as
> follows:
> 
> **************
> 
> Tenderloin Computer Help Days
> 
> Network Ministries, St Anthony Foundation and other Tenderloin agencies
> strive to increase technology use by offering computer classes and labs. But
> many Tenderloin residents may have old or obsolete computer equipment and
> software is often too expensive.
> 
> Event goals:
> 1. To create a community of computer users in the Tenderloin,
> 2. Make Clients more comfortable in mainstream society
> 3. Make technology and computer repair culturally and financially accessible
> 
> At this event, volunteers provide free technical support, demonstrate and
> install open source operating and virus protection software and provide
> one-on-one computer and Internet tutoring.  rticipants will register in
> advance for whatever services they need.
> 
> 1. Hospitality - Greet participants and direct them to the appropriate
> activity;
> 
> During the event, volunteers greet people on the street and invite them to
> come up to the event. Volunteers then meet people at the top of the stairs
> and ask a few questions about their needs for the event. Repair needs are
> referred to the Repair Room. Workshop are directed to a classroom. Others
> are directed to the computer stations in the computer lab for more
> information and individual attention.
> 
> Volunteers are needed to set up and refresh refreshments for the volunteers
> and participants, to welcome volunteers and participants and to direct
> participants to the appropriate activity. Volunteers may also be asked to
> distribute information about the event to people outside the event.
> 
> 2.  Tech Triage and Tech Support - Provide simple technical support for
> existing computers sign up here
> 
> The Tech Triage volunteer matches incoming users with the
> technicalvolunteers best suited to help them.  Each participant makes an
> appointment in advance. When they make their appointment and repair request,
> they are interviewed for basic information about their problem, the
> specifications of their machines, and operating systems (if known). When the
> participant arrives for their repair appointment, the Tech Triage volunteer
> quickly assesses the broad outlines of the user's needs, and sends them to
> most suitable available tech volunteer for those problems.
> 
> If the problem cannot be solved with the resources at the event, the Triage
> Volunteer may provide other options or solutions for their problems. The
> Tech Triage Volunteer must be familiar with Windows and Linux-based
> operating systems and PC-based hardwared and software. Friendly, outgoing
> and bi-lingual preferred.
> 
> Tech support volunteers work with computer problems that may include:
> 
> 1.   Hardware and software problem diagnosis
> 2.   Installing and demonstrating software updates and trouble-shooting
> hardware problems
> 3.   Installing and demonstrating anti-virus and privacy protection software
> 4.   Performing simple repairs to existing personal computer equipment.
> 
> Volunteers bring items that would help in the repair of PC's. For example:
> * tools such as screw drivers and needle nose pliers
> * install CDs (OSes, virus scanners, etc)
> * blank CDs
> * spare computer parts (old HDs, power supplies, cables, etc)
> * And anything else they think may be useful
> 
> 3.  One-on-one Tutoring and Advice - Provide one-on-one tutoring to
> demonstrate how to browse the Internet to find useful information and
> resources. sign up now
> 
> Volunteers work one-on-one with Tenderloin residents to demonstrate software
> and online resources that will help with their daily lives. Topics are
> determined by the clients and their interests. Possible topics include job
> search and casual labor resources, how to set up an email account, online
> GED or other classes, Internet safety, how to make a simple flyer, and
> additional training opportunities. No previous teaching or training
> experience necessary - just patience and enthusiasm.
> 
> Producer, The Digital Tipping Point
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:57:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Lx Rudis <lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <806002.64800.qm at web82706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> hi gang.
> 
> i'm down here with christian at 150 golden gate avenue and we are waiting to open the doors to the public.  
> 
> we've got four stations set up with ubuntu in the back, and are anticipating a fair amount of interest in the OS.  
> 
> as mentioned last week, sf-luggers are encouraged to come down and participate, your help will definitely be appreciated!  
> 
> we'll be open from 10am until 2pm.
> 
> thanks!
> 
> lx
> 
> p.s.: i just overheard one of the volunteers say something about getting "...lots of donuts"  :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:02:08 -0700
> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
> To: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net
> Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID:
> 	<4b5781040903210902v6f108929qc7253231431a55ac at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> hi,
> 
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Lx Rudis <lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> > p.s.: i just overheard one of the volunteers say something about getting
> > "...lots of donuts"  :)
> >
> 
> It's true!  We are swimming in donuts!  LOL
> -------------- next part --------------
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 09:14:12 -0700
> From: Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] tech help day at st. anthony's
> To: sf-lug <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<4b5781040903210914k31f289e6ga4cf3ddf06a3a139 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Here is a video showing what the Tenderloin Computer Help Day is all about!
> 
> http://is.gd/okCo
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20090321/97a2f576/attachment-0001.htm 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 
> 
> End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 40, Issue 21
> **************************************




From kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com  Sat Mar 21 16:30:14 2009
From: kevinjsmith+lug at gmail.com (Kevin J. Smith)
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 16:30:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Tenderloin Computer Help Day! What a Blast!
In-Reply-To: <1237677216.6384.25.camel@EdgeData>
References: <mailman.3.1237662003.11644.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<1237677216.6384.25.camel@EdgeData>
Message-ID: <cd35dd0a0903211630m693fef53te16ac6f0bc2a72f4@mail.gmail.com>

I was bummed out that I had to bail at the last minute - got called into
work until midnight last night and have been here for 8.5 hours and counting
today. I'm glad things went well - my experiences at Tenderloin Technology
Fairs past echo PMPope's exactly - a great time and a way to give back to
society.

Regards,

-KJS

On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 4:13 PM, pmpope <pmpope at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have had such a great time helping the people and meeting this group.
> Not only was I able to put faces with names, I was also able to put
> issues with machines. To be able to interact in this fashion with the
> casual user has been quite inspiring. I am interested in becoming
> involved (& hopefully ingrained) into this Lug for many upcoming actions
> and discussions.
>
> Everyone seems very approachable. Christian, Lx, & Scott have all made
> this experience quite enriching. & of course,... all the 'customers'
> really livened things up. I really could see that there are more people
> in general public seeking these solutions & the sf-lug is able to
> accommodate.
>
> Peace
> PMPope
>
>
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 22 21:55:41 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:55:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] To the Best of our Knowledge
Message-ID: <571869.72102.qm@web111007.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Some members of this list may be interested in Today's edition of this NPR program which featured Nicholas Negroponte of OLPC and Lawrence Lessig of Creative Commons.

http://www.wpr.org/book/visionaries/FP_%20Our%20Computers.mp3

Part One: Our Computers
Hundred Dollar Laptops - Nicholas Negroponte
The Hybrid Economy - Lawrence Lessig
Games That Make You Cry - Jason Rohrer
Computers & Human Spirit - Sherry Turkle


      




From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 23 09:38:55 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 08:38:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] tonight, monday 20090323,
	6:30 to 8:00 python seminar
Message-ID: <1237826335.25334.61.camel@jim-laptop>



the python study group meets as usual this evening 
(monday, 20090323) at noisebridge, 83c weise (near 
16th and mission) from 6:30 to 8:00 PM. 





From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 18:54:04 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (a_kleider at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 18:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] ThinkPython Chapter 19
Message-ID: <131115.18289.qm@web111001.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Asheesh, who has been facilitating a  weekly Python class based on the ThinkPython book by Allen Downey, has suggested that we post material pertaining to those classes on the list (which is where the idea of having the class was born.)

re attempt to follow the text at the beginning of chapter 19, why does the following code NOT show the button or the label as it should
and what's more, when the window is closed, the? error following the code is reported:

# To create a GUI: must import Gui and instantiate a Gui object:

from Gui import *

g = Gui()
g.title('Gui')
g.mainloop()? ? # event loop: waits and responds

# A 'frame' has been created: a container for other widgets.

button = g.bu(text='Press me.') # a button widget
label = g.la(text='Press the button.')

# and here's the error report:
alex at ibmtp:~/Python$ python ex19.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
? File "ex19.py", line 16, in <module>
? ? button = g.bu(text='Press me.')??? # a button widget
? File "/home/alex/Python/Gui.py", line 258, in bu
? ? return self.widget(Button, text=text, command=command, **options)
? File "/home/alex/Python/Gui.py", line 369, in widget
? ? widget = constructor(self.frame, **widopt)
? File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 2013, in __init__
? ? Widget.__init__(self, master, 'button', cnf, kw)
? File "/usr/lib/python2.5/lib-tk/Tkinter.py", line 1943, in __init__
? ? (widgetName, self._w) + extra + self._options(cnf))
_tkinter.TclError: can't invoke "button" command:? application has been destroyed
alex at ibmtp:~/Python$ 




a_kleider at yahoo.com




      




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 23 19:43:30 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 19:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] ThinkPython Chapter 19
Message-ID: <605941.9251.qm@web111009.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


with Jim's help, the problem has been discovered.
The 
g.mainloop()
line has to be at the end!





a_kleider at yahoo.com


      




From asheesh at asheesh.org  Tue Mar 24 03:57:52 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:57:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] tonight, monday 20090323,
 6:30 to 8:00 python seminar
In-Reply-To: <1237826335.25334.61.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <1237826335.25334.61.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903240657160.31374@vellum.laroia.net>

On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, jim wrote:

> the python study group meets as usual this evening
> (monday, 20090323) at noisebridge, 83c weise (near
> 16th and mission) from 6:30 to 8:00 PM.

Er, I'm in Philadelphia and will be in Chicago next week. Did you guys 
meet successfully without me?

If so, that rules.

I'll be back by the first week of April.

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Q:	What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back?
A:	A stick.



From asheesh at asheesh.org  Tue Mar 24 04:25:50 2009
From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:25:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903240725170.31374@vellum.laroia.net>

On Tue, 17 Feb 2009, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Christian Einfeldt (einfeldt at gmail.com):
>
>> I am going to be helping an elderly guy upgrade from Gutsy to Intrepid. 
>> He probably uses Firefox to save his bookmarks, as opposed to cloud 
>> bookmarks like Google bookmarks, so I will need to save the data in at 
>> least his Firefox config files.  Does anyone have any warnings of traps 
>> for the unwary in moving from Gutsy to Intrepid?
>
> Firefox's bookmarks file has a (very) stable-over-time data format, 
> fortunately.  You'll find it as ~/.mozilla/firefox/[random 
> string]/bookmarks.html .  [random string] is generated at the time 
> Firefox creates the user profile.  It's a kind of trivial security hack.

For what it's worth, Firefox 3.x ditches bookmarks.html in favor of a 
SQLite database. The new "bookmarks" system is called "Places."

-- Asheesh.

-- 
Reply hazy, ask again later.



From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 24 09:10:03 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:10:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] BayPIGgies meeting Thursday March 26,
	2009: Tools for Python	Programmers
Message-ID: <1237911003.8066.26.camel@jim-laptop>


BayPIGgies meeting Thursday March 26, 2009: Tools for Python
Programmers  

NOTE BayPIGgies is NO LONGER meeting at Google but at the Symantec
Vcafe, at Symantec's location at 350 Ellis Street in Mountain View. 
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&ei=w6i_Sfr6MZmQsQOzlv0v&hl=en&t=h&msa=0&msid=116202735295394761637.00046550c09ff3d96bff1&ll=37.397693,-122.053707&spn=0.002902,0.004828&z=18

Tonight's talk is 
* Tools for Python Programmers (in four parts) 
Sandrine Ribeau on pylint
JJ Behrens on the profiler module 
Drew Pertulla on visualising profiler results with KCacheGrind
Simeon Franklin on virtualenv, pip, and fabric

Meetings start with a Newbie Nugget, a short discussion of an 
essential Python feature, specially for those new to Python. 
Tonight's Newbie Nugget: 
unknown at this time 


NEW LOCATION FOR MARCH 26, 2009 
Symantec Corporation
Symantec Vcafe
350 Ellis Street
Mountain View, CA 94043

BayPIGgies meeting information is available at 
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone


About the Talks 
   Tonight's talks focus on tools that improve code, performance, 
and package and library prowess. 



------------------------ Agenda ------------------------
 
..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements, 
any first-minute announcements. 


..... 7:35 PM to 7:45 PM ................

Newbie Nugget: unknown  


..... 7:45 PM to 7:55 PM ................

Pylint 
by Sandrine Ribeau 

..... 7:55 PM to 8:10 PM ................

Profiler Module 
by JJ Behrens 

..... 8:10 PM to 8:25 PM ................

KCacheGrind 
by Drew Perttula 

..... 8:25 PM to 8:45 PM ................

virtualenv, pip, and fabric 
by Simeon Franklin 



Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 

..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM  ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics 
the announcers are interested in. 

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up 
individually on the announcements and other topics of 
interest.

Note that the meeting may end promptly at 9 PM. 





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Mar 24 10:02:02 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:02:02 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Upgrading from Gutsy to Intrepid
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.0903240725170.31374@vellum.laroia.net>
References: <4b5781040902172013y22e21220l8373bf920b32841@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090218050017.GP19851@linuxmafia.com>
	<alpine.DEB.2.00.0903240725170.31374@vellum.laroia.net>
Message-ID: <20090324170202.GU28192@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Asheesh Laroia (asheesh at asheesh.org):

> For what it's worth, Firefox 3.x ditches bookmarks.html in favor of a 
> SQLite database. The new "bookmarks" system is called "Places."

Yes, I've recently learned this, and am a bit unhappy about that and a
number of other aspects of Firefox 3.x behaviour.  (Early 3.x releases
had performance-killingly high rates of disk access, and also Firefox
now complains if gconfd-2 isn't running, even though it has no need of
it.)

I believe at least Firefox 3.x still _exports_ bookmarks to the old,
stable format.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 26 04:18:43 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 04:18:43 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com., general,
	and balug.org. & miscellaneous, etc.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1236024005.18449.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236024005.18449.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090326041843.19304tquhunupoys@webmail.rawbw.com>

Re: DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org. & miscellaneous, etc.

> Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 02:15:50 -0800
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] DNS: sf-lug.com., general, and balug.org.
>
> Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):
>
>> Why I jumped to checking queries against the slave
>
> Yeah, no problem there.  Actually, just about any starting point in
> finding the problem is fine; you just have to proceed systematically
> from there.  That's why you need to make sure you know where diagnostic
> "dig" queries _go_ (when dealing with situations like the recent one),
> rather than just omitting the "@" parameter and hoping for the best.

Yes, ... definitely more than one way to go about it ... key thing is
understanding DNS, how the queries and client tools (such as dig) work,
and logically working to isolate faults/problems or verify correctness,
depending on the scenario at hand.

I'll frequently jump in with dig without using @ ... but maybe only
about 40 to 60% of the time ... really much depends on the scenario.
Without @, and without using the +short option, dig does include in its
output, information on the IP from which it got its response (at least
if it got one).  Again, where I'll typically start much depends on the
scenario at hand, e.g.:

If the problem appears on "just" one client, or towards the client end
of things, I may often start without @, to see "just what the heck is
that client more-or-less doing by default, what's it getting, and from
where".  I'll commonly do "divide and conquer" from there, between
client(s) and authoritative nameserver(s) for the relevant data.

If the problem seems a bit more general - e.g. most stuff okay in a
zone/domain, but some data seems amiss, I'll more commonly start at, or
closer to, authoritative nameservers - and depending upon architecture
(is there a single originating master I can query, or do I not know the
details, and only know what the authoritative nameservers are?), I may
check multiple authoritative nameservers, or I might just start with
one, and then check some points between client(s) and authoritative
nameservers (e.g. are there intermediary nameservers involved)?

In some cases, problems may be further upstream - notably issues with
delegation of nameservers, so depending upon symptoms and such, it may
be quite appropriate to check for issues there.

In a new set-up (new nameservers and/or delegation, slaves, etc.) I'd
typically check end-to-end ... at least as much as feasible.  In a case
like that, where it may be rather to quite probable that it all works,
which end one starts from may not matter very much at all - except to
the extent that it can more quickly find the problems that are more
probable to exist - and that it's relatively quick and efficient to
verify everything that should be verified.

And, when in doubt, test :-).  Until one's dealt with DNS
troubleshooting a lot, it may not always work quite the way one might
expect ... and even with lots of experience, still, on occasion,
problems will show up in "interesting" places (e.g. like firewall that
worked with both UPD and DNS as it generally should ... except there
were some UDP packets it didn't like, and dropped on the floor ... which
broke DNS is a somewhat mysterious way (and a much less common firewall
DNS booboo; or case of a registrar that had the correct delegation data
in whois, but had precisely none of that NS data in their authoritative
nameservers - but those are the exceptions (hit each of those just once
so far), rather than the rule (e.g. other firewall misconfigurations -
such as allowing UDP but not TCP - are far more common problems)).
Sometimes one may even need to dig down into the bits - e.g. tcpdump
(that's what quickly provided the smoking gun in that oddball firewall
problem case).

> Something Jim Dennis talks about, in his lectures on system
> administration, is that the concepts of unit testing from extreme
> programming are exactly what a sysadmin needs, to do each job right the
> first time.  That is, you need to include in the planning and execution
> of each task the thinking out and execution of a suitable means to test
> the thing you're doing.  Testing should be _integral_ to each task.
>
> I used to tell my staff at Linuxcare a variation on that concept:  I'd
> tell them "Your task isn't done until it's tested."  If the task was to
> set up a piece of software, then the task isn't done until you've made
> that software perform its function.  If the task includes making
> software start at boot time, then you need to schedule a reboot to test
> your assumption that everything will work OK during startup.  (Even on
> production servers, you can work in a planned reboot _sometime_.  It's
> better than finding out only during _unplanned_ reboots whether startup
> is OK.)

Yes, ... in many cases, my notification that something's been done are
like:
"
done:
$ <command(s) that show I tested it>
<output that shows it worked as expected>
...
"
... or references to item(s) that have the details (e.g. a change record
that has test results and a sign-off that the change was verified
(tested) as successful).

The reboots may not be frequent, ... but yes, ... sooner or later.  Good
to also well track what's to be tested at that reboot (be it scheduled,
or be it a "drats, it's down anyway and we've failed over to our other
system anyway, so, as long as we can take a wee bit of time bringing it
up, let's also complete that test on ...").  So, ... those lists of "to
be checked at (re)boot" (and "maintenance to be done when system brought
down", etc.) do come in quite handy.

>> Maximum ... well, depends, in certain cases that's as high as, but no
>> higher than 13.
>
> "As high as"?  Fsck no.
> nameservers, and seven is the practical limit -- and the _recommended_
> limit -- for almost all situations.  (The root nameservers are an
> anomalous case, for reasons I'd rather not get into.)

Anomalies can be fun.  :-)  For 13, I was specifically thinking root
nameservers, and TLD DNS servers, for quite short TLDs (like two letter
countries and com. - even museum. is likely too long for 13).  But yes,
13 is special case where the vast overwhelming majority of us will never
be doing DNS administration of those special cases.

>> So, ... what really bad happens with too many?  The complete DNS
>> response isn't guaranteed to all fit within a single UDP packet.
>
> That is only the beginning of the problems, and the simplest and most
> mechanistic problem, one is likely to have.  Do I _really_ need to get
> into that?

Yes, yes, too many is very bad.  For non-anomalous (i.e. most all)
scenarios, seven, as you pointed out, is practical and recommended limit
for almost all situations.

> It's entirely and spectacularly irrelevant to my point whether Jim, in
> the previously discussed situation, does "rndc reload" or "service named
> restart".  I.e., you are wandering off onto a typical
> obsessive-compulsive geek irrelevancy.  However, that being said, in
> Jim's shoes, if I had a fatal configuration error within that pice of
> cr__ BIND9's conffiles, I'd much rather know sooner than later.

Sure, ... in case like sf-lug.com. where high availability of the
nameserver over a relatively short interval isn't crucial, a restart is
fine.

In cases, however, where high availability of the nameserver is very
important (e.g. it's getting pounded, and when it goes down, many
clients will experience undesirable latencies in resolving DNS),
doing a reload keeps the service up and running - even in most all cases
where there's a (typical zone) configuration error - and that an error
has occurred, is generally rather easily seen by checking the logs
and/or noting that in such cases, the nameserver is still generally
serving the prior zone file's data (older serial number), rather than
the newer serial number and zone data in the flawed zone file.  In
rather to quite critical production scenarios, this can be the much more
graceful way to find (and then correct) a zone file error.

>> Jim - if you're interested, let me know - I can also point you at an
>> excellent free resource for DNS slave that I found when I was
>> researching such for BALUG.
>
> I hope you're not yet another person pushing EveryDNS, with its broken
> djbware-based implementation that doesn't support AXFR and ignores
> NOTIFY.

Ewww, egad no.  Friends don't let friends recommend EveryDNS ;-)  (Okay,
*maybe* I wouldn't say it's beyond recommendation for *all* scenarios,
but it sucks very seriously in many major ways, and I wouldn't generally
recommend it.)  In the case of BALUG.ORG., yes, we're using it, but NOT
for any (critical) production - basically if EveryDNS blew up or started
serving totally bogus data (some would argue it already does that ;-))
for BALUG.ORG., it would have negligible impact on BALUG operations
(e.g. it wouldn't impact the main webserver ([www.]balug.org.), the
lists, or the list archives). - what little "damage" it could do would
at most inconvenience some BALUG webmaster(s) that aren't also full
BALUG systems administrators (a small and not very active in that
capacity set) ... so, ... no biggie there.  Longer terms we plan to move
BALUG fully off of EveryDNS ... likely after some of our DNS dust
settles (most notably IPs of master(s) - at present all three in or
candidates for that role will be very likely to be having their IPs
change later this year).

> I respect Ulevitch and crew, but losing the ability to have timely
> updates to seconaries is a pretty sad disadvantage, especially given
> that any number of people in the Valley will be glad to give you
> more-competent secondary service for free, too.

EveryDNS has *many* issues, ... last time I bothered to note them in
detail (from a zone file of a subdomain of BALUG.ORG. (e.g.
test.balug.org.):
; For EveryDNS.net, NOTE AT LEAST THE FOLLOWING (at least as of
; 2007-05-26):
;
; Cannot be set up and function as slave(s) until one or more of
; their nameservers have been delegated as an NS via a chain of
; authority from the root nameservers.
;
; WILL NOT ACCEPT/LOAD ALL VALID RR TYPES (is not running BIND)
;
; LIMITS TO 200 THE TOTAL NUMBER OF RECORDS it will load for free for
; any given account or domain.
;
; ENFORCES CERTAIN MINIMUM TTLs.
;
; FAILs TO ACCEPT TCP CONNECTIONS on ns[123].everydns.net.  Among
; other things this would likely impact larger records and responses
; to queries where all the data (e.g. multiple records) could not fit
; within a single UDP reply.
;
; DOES WORK (including answering queries) with TCP on:
; ns4.everydns.net.
;
; Accepts but ignores notify.
;
; Will pick up zone updates at most once per hour (and presumably
; only if SOA serial number indicates there's been an update).
;
; Some of these items can be checked with:
; http://www.dnsreport.com/
; and/or other tools.
;
; For more information, also check under:
; http://www.everydns.net/

What I had in mind to recommend to Jim:
o a relatively high availability (HA) slave (one main DNS IP on HA
   cluster in data center)
o not dependent or mostly dependent upon one single person for its
   continued operation (and updates, maintenance, configuration changes,
   etc.)
o is actually operated as part of a (college/university) faculty
   sponsored CS student group - DNS being one of the services they
   maintain on the HA cluster system.
o free

There are many other good/excellent possibilities out there too, but the
above is the one I specifically had in mind, anyway.

>> Yes, good to monitor registry bits ... but I'd treat that as a rather
>> distinct matter, as compared to DNS.
>
> Um, excuse me?  The identity of which IPs are authoritative is "a
> distinct matter from DNS"?  In what universe?
>
>> but thus far I've seen it once where a TLD registry had
>> the nameservers correct in whois data, but that data didn't match
>> behavior of the authoritative nameservers
>
> That's why you check the glue records in the parent zone, genius.

Registry whois data about DNS *should* be consistent with DNS - but thus
far I've encountered one case where it wasn't - and no, not a matter of
glue records at all (the nameservers were in a different domain
altogether).  In that one case I ran into (some two letter country TLD
... I don't recall what country at this point), the registrar whois
data about our DNS was all correct - and had been correct for quite a
while - but the actual DNS was another story.  Most notably, the NS
records for the nameservers were missing from the authoritative
nameservers for the two letter country TLD (and a slight bit of prodding
to the registrar pointing this out, and they corrected it).

>> Well, opinions on BIND9 will vary :-) ... but I certainly agree with at
>> least many of Rick's points about it.
>
> _Many_?  Are you prepared to seriously assert that...

I didn't say that opinions varied much or at all on individual
particular aspects of BIND9 ;-)

For the various (mis-)features and capabilities one wants or requires,
and/or doesn't want, BIND9 and alternatives (e.g. NSD), will each fit
well, better, or not at all, in different scenarios.

And thanks also for providing lots of good information on NSD.

>> If one dig(1)s (okay, pun wasn't initially intended, but boy it works
>> ... especially when adding (1)) a bit deeper, one may find things fairly
>> interesting in/around, oh, ... say around balug.org. and new.balug.org. and
>> @ns1.balug.org.
>> @ns1.everydns.net.
>> @ns2.everydns.net.

>> @ns3.everydns.net.
>> @ns4.everydns.net.
>> @150.135.84.2
>
> Ugh.  Broken EveryDNS secondary nameservice.  Ignores NOTIFY, doesn't do
> AXFR.  Avoid.

Yes, yes, EveryDNS deficiencies (and abominations) duly noted.
If one just pokes around, e.g.:
balug.org.
www.balug.org.
lists.balug.org.
one will however find everydns.net nowhere to be found.




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 26 05:30:41 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:30:41 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was	scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>

Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML attachment was  
scrubbed...")]

Folks, please, ... it's generally much better for lists to just send
plain text - i.e. don't do, e.g., multipart alternative where both plain
text and HTML are sent - adds little value if any (and likely subtracts
some) to the list, adds annoying bits to the list, and takes up more
space on the listservers.  Some/many email clients (e.g. Microsoft
Outlook) may do so by default - one should almost always turn that
behavior off and just send plain text when sending to (or Ccing) lists
(ditto for Usenet).

How does one know if one's doing this?  Well, if the list postings (such
as in the archives and digest forms) have stuff that looks of a form like:

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:  
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/YYYYMMDD/hexchars/attachment-0001.htm

from one's postings, ... then one is likely "guilty" of such.
One can search the archives to see how frequently one has done so, e.g.
with a Google search such as using:
site:linuxmafia.com "An HTML attachment was scrubbed" "Michael Paoli"
                                                        ^your name here
One may get some false positives with such a search (on myself I found
10, where 9 were from folks other than me, and one didn't have such an
attachment, but discussed the issue and symptoms, etc.) ... but for some
folk(s) if I do that, I find counts in excess of 600 (e.g. they
apparently always send in both plain text and html.)  So, ... don't do
that.  :-)

After all,
also sending:
Hello,<br><br>Look at me.<br>Look at my text.<br>foo!<br>bar.<br>
really adds little to:
Hello,

Look at me.
Look at my text.
foo!
bar.
... especially when many (most?) of us on the list will never look at
that generally highly redundant:
Hello,<br><br>Look at me.<br>Look at my text.<br>foo!<br>bar.<br>

references/excerpts:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2008q2/004537.html
> From: Michael Paoli Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu
> Subject: email, Reply-to:, lists, and all that jazz
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Date: Tue Apr 29 04:06:53 PDT 2008
> * It's probably better/best, in general, not to be sending email as
>   HTML to lists (or USENET).  At least certain email clients will
>   default to sending both HTML and text - in such cases for lists,
>   it's generally best to configure them to just use plain text when
>   sending to the list email address.  Also, for those of us that read
>   the list in digest form (which may be a quite sizeable percentage,
>   due to the list's relatively high volume), those "An HTML
>   attachment was scrubbed..." footers and URLs get rather annoying
>   after a while.  They also take up lots of space on the listserver,
>   and are probably, in most regards there, wasted space.  Are you
>   guilty?  Your email client might not be making this blatantly
>   obvious to you ... have a look at the list archives (not to pick on
>   anyone in particular, but just grabbing the most recent that's
>   there when I peek, have a look at the tail end of:
>   http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/2008q2/004530.html
>   to see what I mean).  Not sure if it shows up quite that annoyingly
>   for those on the list that aren't subscribed in digest form.

Bcc: (not-so-random) frequent "offender" :->




From Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu  Thu Mar 26 05:59:37 2009
From: Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu (Michael Paoli)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:59:37 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] [L]UGs and brew pubs and "bars", under 21 folks, etc.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.5.1236798008.29820.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236798008.29820.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090326055937.18181v7feo146iqs@webmail.rawbw.com>

> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 15:27:35 -0700
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>
> institution of pubs that the UK and Eire have.  Unfortunately, dumb
> liquor laws mean that otherwise fine places to meet in the back rooms of
> pubs are off-limits to attendees under age 21.[1]  Some Linux groups
> have tried to hold events in brewpubs (e.g., Bay Area Debian's meeting
> at the Dutch Goose, just downhill from my house), only to hear
> (understandable) complaints from underage members.

Well, it doesn't hurt to do some (double) checking in many cases.
Between law/license, policy, etc. sometimes things can be a bit
surprising ... and sometimes in good useful ways.  E.g. many places one
might mostly think of as a pub or brew pub, are enough of a restaurant
that they don't prohibit - or fully prohibit - those under 21 years of
age.

Not sure if it's still the case, but, e.g. Triple Rock in Berkeley:
http://bad.debian.net/list/2003-June/002056.html
http://bad.debian.net/list/2003-June/002049.html
I'm not certain, but Pacific Coast Brewing Company in Oakland may be
quite similar (BAD also met there quite a number of times), as may be
21st Amendment in San Francisco (I think BAD also met there at least
once).

The "non-binding" part of BAD's Shotgun Rules document:
http://bad.debian.net/shotgun_rules.txt
also has many useful suggestions on what makes a good meeting place,
etc.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 26 09:03:40 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 09:03:40 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was	scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <20090326160340.GE6710@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Michael Paoli (Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu):

> Folks, please, ... it's generally much better for lists to just send
> plain text - i.e. don't do, e.g., multipart alternative where both plain
> text and HTML are sent - adds little value if any (and likely subtracts
> some) to the list, adds annoying bits to the list, and takes up more
> space on the listservers.  Some/many email clients (e.g. Microsoft
> Outlook) may do so by default - one should almost always turn that
> behavior off and just send plain text when sending to (or Ccing) lists
> (ditto for Usenet).

What he said!

Guides to configuring various e-mail clients:
http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#programs
http://www.birdhouse.org/etc/evilmail.html#thefix

On the quoting front, a nice utility to help MS-Outlook users:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/
...and MS-Outlook Express users:
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/




From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 10:54:15 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:54:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
Message-ID: <683785120903261054y3bf1556apde8c7f9824c8bc76@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:30 AM, Michael Paoli
<Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Some/many email clients (e.g. Microsoft
> Outlook) may do so by default - one should almost always turn that
> behavior off and just send plain text when sending to (or Ccing) lists
> (ditto for Usenet).

OK just throwing out ideas here, but why not have the list server deal
with HTML attachments?  Some piece of code figured out that there is a
scrubbable HTML attachment (Mailman or Pipermail) so I would think the
Right Thing might be one of the following:

1. List server should silently remove HTML attachments with no trace

2. List server should reject mail with HTML attachments (idiot filter)

3. List server should auto-send "nag-mail" to the offender saying
essentially what Michael said above



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 26 11:12:21 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:12:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <683785120903261054y3bf1556apde8c7f9824c8bc76@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<683785120903261054y3bf1556apde8c7f9824c8bc76@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090326181220.GJ6710@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jesse Zbikowski (embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com):

> OK just throwing out ideas here, but why not have the list server deal
> with HTML attachments?  Some piece of code figured out that there is a
> scrubbable HTML attachment (Mailman or Pipermail) so I would think the
> Right Thing might be one of the following:
> 
> 1. List server should silently remove HTML attachments with no trace
> 
> 2. List server should reject mail with HTML attachments (idiot filter)
> 
> 3. List server should auto-send "nag-mail" to the offender saying
> essentially what Michael said above

4.  List server (actually, the pipermail archiver, in this case) will
archive only the ASCII part of any multipart-alternative posting, and 
run any HTML-only post through "/usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html '%s'"
or equivalent, before archiving.

People spill a lot of virtual ink over objecting to HTML mail, and I
_do_ concur with Michael on his basic stance, but at the MUA (user mail
program) level, long ago I decided the smart thing to do (as a _main_
remedy, at least) was to autoconvert incoming HTML and other oddly
formatted e-mails to something more reasonable.  Therefore, my
/home/rick/.mailcap file includes a bunch of entries like these:


application/msword; wvWare --nographics -x /usr/share/wv/wvHtml.xml '%s' | lynx -dump -force_html -nolist /dev/stdin; copiousoutput; description=Microsoft Word Document; print=wvWare --nographics -x /usr/share/wv/wvHtml.xml '%s' | lynx -dump -force_html -nolist /dev/stdin | print text/plain:-

text/html; /usr/bin/lynx -dump -force_html '%s'; copiousoutput; description=HTML Text; nametemplate=%s.html

application/ms-tnef; /usr/bin/tnef -w -f '%s'; needsterminal; description=Microsoft's Exchange Encapsulation; nametemplate=%s.data



So, basically, instead of putting my primary faith in educating people
sending me e-mail to be clueful, I make my mail software automatically
repair those mails upon receipt -- retrofitting clue, as it were.  Most
of the time, I'm only barely aware that "Oh, that must originally have
been HTML-only, and lynx fixed it on the fly."  In some cases, I
literally never notice.

Of course, I'll note that hacking pipermail is pretty non-trivial,
unlike writing a few new .mailcap entries.  So, trying to teach users to
be clueful might have some mileage in it, yet.  ;->





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 26 11:16:06 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:16:06 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <20090326181220.GJ6710@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<683785120903261054y3bf1556apde8c7f9824c8bc76@mail.gmail.com>
	<20090326181220.GJ6710@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090326181606.GK6710@linuxmafia.com>

I wrote:

> Of course, I'll note that hacking pipermail is pretty non-trivial,
> unlike writing a few new .mailcap entries.

And I forgot, too, that we're talking about hacking pipermail on _my_
server.  I have nothing against that, as long as (1) somebody else does
the hard work, and (2) it gets tested on someone else's server, first.
;->




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 26 12:51:14 2009
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:51:14 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Lists: plain text only please :-) [ugh: ("An HTML
	attachment was	scrubbed...")]
In-Reply-To: <20090326160340.GE6710@linuxmafia.com>
References: <mailman.5.1236711605.11840.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20090326053041.44186rldt7xq5b3k@webmail.rawbw.com>
	<20090326160340.GE6710@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20090326195114.GA25406@linuxmafia.com>

As an afterthought:

> Guides to configuring various e-mail clients:
> http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#programs
> http://www.birdhouse.org/etc/evilmail.html#thefix

Part of the reason I put my primary effort into making my mailcap file
compensate for the prevalence of badly composed e-mails, attached
MS-Word documents, etc., is the fruits of experience.  That is,
participants in Internet culture have been fighting a losing war for
decades to maintain minimal standards, and one of their main weapons has
been writing really clear, easy to follow instructions telling people
how to do better and why they should bother.

The result?  Almost nobody ever even looks at the default settings of
their software.  All of that explanation, all of that advocacy, doesn't 
even get heard, let alone acted upon, by the overwhelming majority of
Internet users.  Most people use their preloaded OS and their default
applications in whatever default way they start in.  The notion of
taking charge, taking responsibility, for software is utterly alien to
them.  They not only don't do it; they also don't even hear the reasons.
If you somehow force them to listen, they wait until you're done and
then ignore you.

Because they can, because life has conditioned them to think that "If I
am permitted to do it, it must be OK", and because they figure that
maintaining standards is somebody else's problem.

So, I'm always glad to make references like the above available and
promote them to anyone who's receptive to the message.  However, I
expect that the message _will_ be widely ignored.




From einfeldt at gmail.com  Thu Mar 26 12:59:24 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:59:24 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Anyone driving to Penlug tonight from SF?
Message-ID: <4b5781040903261259iea28d15ob99471d314d3ea41@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Is anyone driving to PenLug tonight from SF, and would like gasoline
contributions?

Thanks either way.
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From Sarah at cloudmade.com  Thu Mar 26 14:49:50 2009
From: Sarah at cloudmade.com (Sarah Manley)
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:49:50 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Spring time with OSM!
Message-ID: <D5E9EF8C-E0C9-47BF-8B76-52A5BE815AE8@cloudmade.com>

Dear All,

There are a number of OSM mapping parties on the horizon. Join us for  
one or all!

This weekend, March 28th and 29th: Concord: http://tinyurl.com/concord-opensource
Next weekend, April 4 & 5th: San Jose:. http://tinyurl.com/sanjose-opensource
Tuesday April 7th: Mappy Hour in San Francisco- happy hour for map  
enthusiasts!    http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappy_Hour_Bay_Area
April 25th: Mapping party hike at Henry Coe State park for the  
backcountry weekend. ( I have two passes for saturday and will be  
carpooling down from SF). Details still being worked out so email me  
if you are interested.
May 9th & 10th: Santa Cruz: http://tinyurl.com/santacruz-opensource
May 16th: Santa Clara: http://tinyurl.com/santaclara-opensource


Feel free to send me questions and comments!

Sarah


Sarah Manley
Sarah at cloudmade.com
Cell: 631-338-3815
Skype: Sarah_cloudmade
Twitter: SarahManley




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From grantbow at gmail.com  Sat Mar 28 10:30:08 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 10:30:08 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] Freenode
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0903280956u50d0a9oa4f5e3e2991f7c67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <317e39f0903280956u50d0a9oa4f5e3e2991f7c67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <317e39f0903281030s679c640j878d6eaba41ea981@mail.gmail.com>

I will try to keep this brief and to the point. ?This message has been
cross posted to several lists which will explain why you might get
more than one copy. ?I hope you find it informative too. ?Send all
flames to me, not to the lists.

I'm taking off the other hats I wear for a moment to ask for you or
your company's support of Freenode [1] (technically the Peer-Directed
Projects Center or PDPC) now based in the United Kingdom. ?For those
that don't know, Freenode is an IRC [2] network supporting Open Source
and Free Software communities globally. ?Another PDPC activity is the
annual FOSSCON conference in the fall. ?PDPC is specifically [3]
raising funds in order to be recognized by the UK as an official
charitable organization. ?This status has many benefits, however they
need to raise a certain amount of money by March, 2009. ?There are
just a few days left in the fundraising campaign.

Canonical Ltd. (the company created by Mark Shuttleworth that drives
Ubuntu Linux) has graciously stepped forward to provide dollar for
dollar matching, magnifying the impact of your donations to PDPC. ?The
fund raising goal has almost been reached but your contribution is
needed. ?Brainstorming by the PDPC board of directors for how to use
any funds not used for operations includes hosting live conference
events in Europe and the US, extending current services and improving
the reliability of the freenode network by hosting a few of their own
hubs and backup systems. ?Freenode is growing rapidly [4] supporting
up to 57,000 concurrent users up from a maximum of about 40,000 18
months ago.

Some people may not be aware that IRC is used by a huge array of Open
Source and Free Software projects. ?The list of groups [5] Freenode
works with is truly impressive. ?I feel it is not at all hyperbole to
say that the work done over freenode and OFTC [6] are the real-time
backbone of open source collaboration throughout the world, ?Coders
use the IRC network to develop applications used by millions of people
every day and provide *end user support*. ?If you use any open source
software you may be an indirect beneficiary of the services Freenode
provides. ?I encourage those who are interested to try launching an
IRC client such as Pidgin [7] and see for yourself. ?You won't be
sorry you did.

While I have used Freenode for many years, this year I too became a
contributor for the first time. ?For a one time contribution
http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml of as little as $8 you can
join me in supporting supporting Freenode and the many Open Source
projects they serve.

Thanks for your consideration,

--
-- Grant Bowman ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? <grantbow at gmail.com>


[1] http://freenode.net/pdpc_donations.shtml
? ?http://fosscon.org/about/

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat is a form of
group instant messaging first used in 1988. ?Related sites include
http://www.irchelp.org/ and http://www.irc.org/

[3] http://blog.freenode.net/2008/10/fundraising-for-charity-status/
? ?http://blog.freenode.net/2009/03/20082009-fundraiser-campaign-update/

[4] http://freenode.net/history.shtml also http://searchirc.com/network/Freenode

[5] http://freenode.net/primary_groups.shtml include the Apache
Software Foundation, Canonical Ltd (Ubuntu), Creative Commons
Corporation, Free Software Foundation (GNU Project), Mozilla
Foundation (Firefox), MySQL AB, NetBSD Foundation, Open Darwin
Foundation (Apple builds OSX using Darwin), OpenOffice.org, Red Hat,
Inc. & the World Wide Web Consortium among others.

[6] OFTC is a a similar but much smaller IRC network. ?See "Freenode
and OFTC IRC networks buddy up", May 2007
http://www.linux.com/articles/62098 also
http://searchirc.com/network/OFTC

[7] http://pidgin.im is an IRC client that runs on Windows, Mac and
Linux formerly named Gaim. ?http://www.mirc.com/ is also popular on
the Windows platform.



From opietro at yahoo.com  Sun Mar 29 13:54:30 2009
From: opietro at yahoo.com (opietro at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:54:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] help saving OpenOffice files
Message-ID: <45532.48607.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Greetings,

Any advice on the following problem would be much appreciated. (I'm using Ubuntu 6.06 LTS [Dapper Drake] and OpenOffice 2.0.2):

?I'm unable to save documents in OpenOffice. I get this error when I try to save a Writer file or Calc spreadsheet file:

???????? "Due to an unexpected error, OpenOffice.org crashed. ..."

I tried different option settings in OpenOffice.org, and I tried to reinstall OpenOffice.org, packages, but nothing helps. Thank you.

Owen Pietrokowsky


Owen Pietrokowsky,  
Editor, writer 
Biotech, high-tech, linux, materials science
opietro at yahoo.com

LinkedIn:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/owenpietrokowsky





      
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From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 29 14:29:51 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 14:29:51 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] help saving OpenOffice files
In-Reply-To: <45532.48607.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <45532.48607.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <683785120903291429t2aa0dbb8nbac4336ea43c4b8c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Owen, I don't use OpenOffice but I have a couple of suggestions.

> ?I'm unable to save documents in OpenOffice. I get this error when I try to
> save a Writer file or Calc spreadsheet file:
>
> ???????? "Due to an unexpected error, OpenOffice.org crashed. ..."

I wonder if there is a problem with your disk or the application.
Maybe try saving a file in a different directory, if possible on a
different disk (such as a USB drive).  Also try saving a file in the
same directory but with a different application, such as OpenOffice
Presenter (or whatever the PowerPoint clone is called).  You may
consider upgrading to OpenOffice 3.  I would also suggest, if
possible, to get a more complete and detailed error message and Google
for that verbatim.  Finally try asking in a forum more targeted to the
software you're using, such as the Ubuntu Desktop forum or whatever
forum OpenOffice uses.  Be aware that although Ubuntu 6.06 LTS is
still officially supported, it's almost three years old and many
people will expect you to use the "latest stable" system (at least
Ubuntu 8.04 LTS).



From phillip.tribble at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 11:58:21 2009
From: phillip.tribble at gmail.com (phillip tribble)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:58:21 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
Message-ID: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>

The official Ubuntu-California Wiki will have the details below soon.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/JauntyRelease

Date: April 24, 2009.

Location: Cafe Le Scala
             1655 N Main St
                 Ste 110
              Walnut Creek, CA

Website: http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffe-la-scala-walnut-creek

Time: 7pm.

FREE WIFI!!!!!!!!!

-- 
Phillip Tribble
Rushers Blog
http://rusher.webhop.org
"If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step behind"
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From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 30 12:22:12 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:22:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>



   is there a san francisco venue for jaunty 
celebration, or should we just get drunk at 
home? 


On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 11:58 -0700, phillip tribble wrote:
> The official Ubuntu-California Wiki will have the details below soon.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/JauntyRelease
> 
> Date: April 24, 2009.
> 
> Location: Cafe Le Scala 
>              1655 N Main St
>                  Ste 110
>               Walnut Creek, CA
> 
> Website: http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffe-la-scala-walnut-creek
> 
> Time: 7pm.
> 
> FREE WIFI!!!!!!!!!
> 
> -- 
> Phillip Tribble
> Rushers Blog
> http://rusher.webhop.org
> "If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step
> behind"
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 30 12:34:21 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:34:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Python study group tonight at 83C weise--6:30 to
	8:00
Message-ID: <1238441661.6479.135.camel@jim-laptop>


   the python study group meets tonight, as usual, at 
83C weise street (very near the intersection of mission 
and 16th), the Noisebridge hacker space. 





From grantbow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 16:01:12 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:01:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing is planned for SF yet.  It will just take someone to step
forward to help herd the cats.  If anyone is interested give a shout
out to the ubuntu-us-ca mail list and/or freenode #ubuntu-california
and we'll get something going.

Cheers,

-- 
-- Grant Bowman                                   <grantbow at gmail.com>


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:22 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> ? is there a san francisco venue for jaunty
> celebration, or should we just get drunk at
> home?
>
> On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 11:58 -0700, phillip tribble wrote:
>> The official Ubuntu-California Wiki will have the details below soon.
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/JauntyRelease
>> [...]



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:25:57 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:25:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
	<317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>

I just tentatively booked the Caffeine at 835 Geary for Thursday April
23.  This way people can go to both parties if they want.  Some
advantages to Caffeine:

- Central location (walkable from downtown or Nob Hill; close to SOMA,
Mission, and Western Addition)

- Variety of caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, whichever your preference

- All ages

- There is free wifi and a separate downstairs room, so we could
conceivable party upstairs and hack downstairs?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffeine-san-francisco

Please let me know if you would like to veto this idea or if you have
any ideas for entertainment -- I would love to have some people making
music with Linux (I know there are a few of you out there).  Otherwise
I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
Grant suggests.



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:31:34 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:31:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	<1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
	<317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
	<683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903301731q236865d6j3604d20ac981bf9a@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Otherwise
> I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
> Grant suggests.


It would be great if you could update this list as to what you decide!

Thx!
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 18:41:25 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:41:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Jaunty release party
Message-ID: <317e39f0903301841m62c6b315x5036de551591ecbb@mail.gmail.com>

This sounds like a great venue.  For lurkers the archives for
ubuntu-us-ca are available from:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca

-- 
-- Grant Bowman                                   <grantbow at gmail.com>


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Jesse Zbikowski
<embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just tentatively booked the Caffeine at 835 Geary for Thursday April
> 23.  This way people can go to both parties if they want.  Some
> advantages to Caffeine:
>
> - Central location (walkable from downtown or Nob Hill; close to SOMA,
> Mission, and Western Addition)
>
> - Variety of caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, whichever your preference
>
> - All ages
>
> - There is free wifi and a separate downstairs room, so we could
> conceivable party upstairs and hack downstairs?
>
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffeine-san-francisco
>
> Please let me know if you would like to veto this idea or if you have
> any ideas for entertainment -- I would love to have some people making
> music with Linux (I know there are a few of you out there).  Otherwise
> I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
> Grant suggests.
>



From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 30 12:22:12 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:22:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>



   is there a san francisco venue for jaunty 
celebration, or should we just get drunk at 
home? 


On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 11:58 -0700, phillip tribble wrote:
> The official Ubuntu-California Wiki will have the details below soon.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/JauntyRelease
> 
> Date: April 24, 2009.
> 
> Location: Cafe Le Scala 
>              1655 N Main St
>                  Ste 110
>               Walnut Creek, CA
> 
> Website: http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffe-la-scala-walnut-creek
> 
> Time: 7pm.
> 
> FREE WIFI!!!!!!!!!
> 
> -- 
> Phillip Tribble
> Rushers Blog
> http://rusher.webhop.org
> "If you don't take one step forward, you will always be one step
> behind"
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 16:01:12 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:01:12 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
Message-ID: <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>

Nothing is planned for SF yet.  It will just take someone to step
forward to help herd the cats.  If anyone is interested give a shout
out to the ubuntu-us-ca mail list and/or freenode #ubuntu-california
and we'll get something going.

Cheers,

-- 
-- Grant Bowman                                   <grantbow at gmail.com>


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 12:22 PM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
> ? is there a san francisco venue for jaunty
> celebration, or should we just get drunk at
> home?
>
> On Mon, 2009-03-30 at 11:58 -0700, phillip tribble wrote:
>> The official Ubuntu-California Wiki will have the details below soon.
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/JauntyRelease
>> [...]

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:25:57 2009
From: embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com (Jesse Zbikowski)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:25:57 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
	 <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>

I just tentatively booked the Caffeine at 835 Geary for Thursday April
23.  This way people can go to both parties if they want.  Some
advantages to Caffeine:

- Central location (walkable from downtown or Nob Hill; close to SOMA,
Mission, and Western Addition)

- Variety of caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, whichever your preference

- All ages

- There is free wifi and a separate downstairs room, so we could
conceivable party upstairs and hack downstairs?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffeine-san-francisco

Please let me know if you would like to veto this idea or if you have
any ideas for entertainment -- I would love to have some people making
music with Linux (I know there are a few of you out there).  Otherwise
I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
Grant suggests.

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 17:31:34 2009
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:31:34 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] East Bay Jaunty release party
In-Reply-To: <683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>
References: <598ed5ff0903301158n37dd9186pfb5ab134e433ece5@mail.gmail.com>
	 <1238440932.6479.130.camel@jim-laptop>
	 <317e39f0903301601v6793f83bp4c38801634f54dce@mail.gmail.com>
	 <683785120903301725q213591feue37faf9607b64564@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040903301731q236865d6j3604d20ac981bf9a@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

Otherwise
> I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
> Grant suggests.


It would be great if you could update this list as to what you decide!

Thx!
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From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 30 12:34:21 2009
From: jim at well.com (jim)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:34:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Python study group tonight at 83C weise--6:30
	to 8:00
Message-ID: <1238441661.6479.135.camel@jim-laptop>


   the python study group meets tonight, as usual, at 
83C weise street (very near the intersection of mission 
and 16th), the Noisebridge hacker space. 



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
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From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 30 15:14:03 2009
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Python study group tonight at 83C
	weise--6:30 to 8:00
Message-ID: <729905.35691.qm@web111011.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


How soon are you expecting to get there? I'm thinking of leaving early again (unless I fall asleep first and risk doing an Ahseesh:-)


a_kleider at yahoo.com


--- On Mon, 3/30/09, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:

> From: jim <jim at well.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] [PYCLASS] Python study group tonight at 83C weise--6:30 to 8:00
> To: "sf-lug" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:34 PM
> 
> ???the python study group meets tonight, as
> usual, at 
> 83C weise street (very near the intersection of mission 
> and 16th), the Noisebridge hacker space. 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 


      



From sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 30 14:24:17 2009
From: sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com (sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:24:17 -0700
Subject: sf-lug post from tqpfhddan@genesiscapitalventures.com requires
	approval
Message-ID: <mailman.147.1238448257.13865.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>

As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
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    List:    sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
    From:    tqpfhddan at genesiscapitalventures.com
    Subject: Directory of radiologists  and many more specialties
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At your convenience, visit:

    http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/admindb/sf-lug
        
to approve or deny the request.
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From grantbow at gmail.com  Mon Mar 30 18:41:25 2009
From: grantbow at gmail.com (Grant Bowman)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 18:41:25 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] SF Jaunty release party
Message-ID: <317e39f0903301841m62c6b315x5036de551591ecbb@mail.gmail.com>

This sounds like a great venue.  For lurkers the archives for
ubuntu-us-ca are available from:

https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ca

-- 
-- Grant Bowman                                   <grantbow at gmail.com>


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Jesse Zbikowski
<embeddedlinuxguy at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just tentatively booked the Caffeine at 835 Geary for Thursday April
> 23.  This way people can go to both parties if they want.  Some
> advantages to Caffeine:
>
> - Central location (walkable from downtown or Nob Hill; close to SOMA,
> Mission, and Western Addition)
>
> - Variety of caffeinated and alcoholic beverages, whichever your preference
>
> - All ages
>
> - There is free wifi and a separate downstairs room, so we could
> conceivable party upstairs and hack downstairs?
>
> http://www.yelp.com/biz/caffeine-san-francisco
>
> Please let me know if you would like to veto this idea or if you have
> any ideas for entertainment -- I would love to have some people making
> music with Linux (I know there are a few of you out there).  Otherwise
> I'll plan to continue this discussion on the ubuntu-us-ca mail list as
> Grant suggests.
>

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug