From jim at well.com Sun Oct 1 18:13:11 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 18:13:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] a few topics from today's meeting Message-ID: <2BB801FB-51B3-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> ----------------ISP: The claim today was that Sonic is a good ISP, better than comcast. http://www.sonic.net/ ----------------VoIP and PBX and softphones: media temple is hosting company that also runs an asterisk-based VoIP call center with something like 40 agents. http://www.mediatemple.net/ Who's going to San Francisco State University on Tuesday, 10/10 for Sameer's Asterisk demo and subsequent open discussion with his class? You can count on rides to or from in SF. ----------------Wireless: SFlan is an experimental wireless community network in SF. SFLan is currently in beta. http://www.archive.org/web/sflan.php There's an active wireless group in Alameda http://alamedawireless.org/ Seattle Wireless is a grassroots Community Wireless Network (CWN) project in Seattle, Washington. "we believe that we can build a network without recurrent fees that is not beholden to any CommercialTelecommunicationsProvider. Our network is a MeshNetwork that follows the FreeNetworksPeeringAgreement and is built on OpenSourceSoftware." http://www.seattlewireless.net/ There's the claim that wimax works better than wifi: 802.16E, WirelessMAN, it's got a 70 mile range. http://www.wimaxforum.org/home/ ----------------Computer School: someone promises to let us know of a school that teaches various computer skills in or around South San Francisco--an eight-session class for $30. ----------------there was more, but i coudn't type fast enough. From jim at well.com Mon Oct 2 08:20:43 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:20:43 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Update on computer classes Message-ID: <91F1A3A6-5229-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> > from: John Strazzarino > Subject: Update on computer classes > > Here's the web page for South S.F. Adult Education..... > ? > The teacher for several classes, Emilio Milian is quite a fan of Linux. > ? > John > > http://www.smcoe.k12.ca.us/ssfusd/as/index_files/Page354.html > Thank you, John! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 491 bytes Desc: not available URL: From freiheit at socosa.org Mon Oct 2 10:28:31 2006 From: freiheit at socosa.org (Eric Eisenhart) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 10:28:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SoCoSA Meeting this Wednesday: MySQL Backup and Recovery Manager Message-ID: <20061002172831.GB9935@atlantic.devin.com> Details: http://socosa.org/meeting/2006/10 When: Wednesday, October 4th. Food start: 6pm; show up by 6:10 to get in on a food order; probably pizza Talk start: 7pm Topic: Backup and Recovery manager for MySQL Location: O'Reilly in Sebastopol (see URL for map) As MySQL gets used in increasingly critical and 24/7 applications, its live backup has become increasingly important for administrators. Zmanda Recovery Manager for MySQL is a simple to use tool to do MySQL backups and recovery. It provides enterprise level backup features such as scheduling, reporting and notification. The talk will cover the details of project (code is available under GPL), product features and roadmap. We will also talk about choices and challenges while backing up a MySQL based environment. Speaker: Paddy Sreenivasan of zmanda. Paddy has worked on multiple open source projects in areas of system availability, backup and recovery. Currently he's focussed on database as well as system backup and recovery projects. -- Eric Eisenhart SoCoSA Founder and President IRC: freiheit on irc.socosa.org AIM: falschfreiheit From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed Oct 4 12:51:35 2006 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:51:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] site down? Message-ID: <452410C7.1020908@sfsu.edu> http://www.sf-lug.org/ cannot be found... Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 4 16:21:09 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 16:21:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] site down? In-Reply-To: <452410C7.1020908@sfsu.edu> References: <452410C7.1020908@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <20061004232108.GQ10809@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Sameer Verma (sverma at sfsu.edu): > http://www.sf-lug.org/ cannot be found... Seems like someone at Circlesoft recently introduced an error into Apache HTTPD's virtual-host configurations. (Site seems to be reachable, at the moment, only as http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/htdocs/ .) $ host www.sf-lug.org www.sf-lug.org has address 208.69.41.174 $ ping -c 3 www.sf-lug.org PING www.sf-lug.org (208.69.41.174) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=59.7 ms 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=51.6 ms 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=53.9 ms --- www.sf-lug.org ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2025ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 51.683/55.131/59.747/3.399 ms $ lynx -dump http://www.sf-lug.org/ Index of / Icon [1]Name [2]Last modified [3]Size [4]Description __________________________________________________________________________ [DIR] [5]altmanphoto/ 07-Jan-2006 15:37 - [DIR] [6]blogcircle/ 04-Mar-2006 11:54 - [DIR] [7]bugzilla/ 04-Jan-2006 16:36 - [DIR] [8]chyyegirl/ 03-Oct-2006 21:09 - [DIR] [9]circlesoft/ 19-Jun-2006 19:29 - [DIR] [10]jesse/ 07-Jan-2006 15:31 - [DIR] [11]joey/ 19-Jun-2006 19:24 - [DIR] [12]karil/ 02-May-2006 00:13 - [DIR] [13]karilblog/ 17-Jan-2006 08:02 - [DIR] [14]kathy/ 16-Feb-2006 09:20 - [DIR] [15]legion/ 03-Jan-2006 21:21 - [DIR] [16]marius/ 29-Jan-2006 15:05 - [DIR] [17]megablog/ 16-Jan-2006 10:38 - [DIR] [18]mel/ 03-Jan-2006 19:35 - [DIR] [19]obvious/ 10-Jan-2006 13:27 - [DIR] [20]obviouscom/ 16-Jan-2006 09:43 - [DIR] [21]oceanbeachsf/ 03-Jan-2006 18:59 - [DIR] [22]sal/ 07-Jan-2006 15:32 - [DIR] [23]sanfranciscostories/ 30-Sep-2006 19:40 - [DIR] [24]sf-lug/ 15-Aug-2006 18:29 - [DIR] [25]texas/ 05-Apr-2006 18:26 - __________________________________________________________________________ Apache/2.1.4 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.1 Server at www.sf-lug.org Port 80 References 1. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=N;O=D 2. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=M;O=A 3. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=S;O=A 4. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=D;O=A 5. http://www.sf-lug.org/altmanphoto/ 6. http://www.sf-lug.org/blogcircle/ 7. http://www.sf-lug.org/bugzilla/ 8. http://www.sf-lug.org/chyyegirl/ 9. http://www.sf-lug.org/circlesoft/ 10. http://www.sf-lug.org/jesse/ 11. http://www.sf-lug.org/joey/ 12. http://www.sf-lug.org/karil/ 13. http://www.sf-lug.org/karilblog/ 14. http://www.sf-lug.org/kathy/ 15. http://www.sf-lug.org/legion/ 16. http://www.sf-lug.org/marius/ 17. http://www.sf-lug.org/megablog/ 18. http://www.sf-lug.org/mel/ 19. http://www.sf-lug.org/obvious/ 20. http://www.sf-lug.org/obviouscom/ 21. http://www.sf-lug.org/oceanbeachsf/ 22. http://www.sf-lug.org/sal/ 23. http://www.sf-lug.org/sanfranciscostories/ 24. http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/ 25. http://www.sf-lug.org/texas/ $ From jim at well.com Wed Oct 4 20:26:04 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:26:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] site down? In-Reply-To: <20061004232108.GQ10809@linuxmafia.com> References: <452410C7.1020908@sfsu.edu> <20061004232108.GQ10809@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <3B9D5271-5421-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> yes, circle turned a bit. i'll make the change to the ip address--it should be ...175 not ...174. oops all around on our side. On Oct 4, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Sameer Verma (sverma at sfsu.edu): > >> http://www.sf-lug.org/ cannot be found... > > Seems like someone at Circlesoft recently introduced an error into > Apache HTTPD's virtual-host configurations. (Site seems to be > reachable, at the moment, only as http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/htdocs/ > .) > > > $ host www.sf-lug.org > www.sf-lug.org has address 208.69.41.174 > $ ping -c 3 www.sf-lug.org > PING www.sf-lug.org (208.69.41.174) 56(84) bytes of data. > 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 > time=59.7 ms > 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 > time=51.6 ms > 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 > time=53.9 ms > > --- www.sf-lug.org ping statistics --- > 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2025ms > rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 51.683/55.131/59.747/3.399 ms > > $ lynx -dump http://www.sf-lug.org/ > > Index of / > > Icon [1]Name [2]Last modified [3]Size > [4]Description > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > [DIR] [5]altmanphoto/ 07-Jan-2006 15:37 - > [DIR] [6]blogcircle/ 04-Mar-2006 11:54 - > [DIR] [7]bugzilla/ 04-Jan-2006 16:36 - > [DIR] [8]chyyegirl/ 03-Oct-2006 21:09 - > [DIR] [9]circlesoft/ 19-Jun-2006 19:29 - > [DIR] [10]jesse/ 07-Jan-2006 15:31 - > [DIR] [11]joey/ 19-Jun-2006 19:24 - > [DIR] [12]karil/ 02-May-2006 00:13 - > [DIR] [13]karilblog/ 17-Jan-2006 08:02 - > [DIR] [14]kathy/ 16-Feb-2006 09:20 - > [DIR] [15]legion/ 03-Jan-2006 21:21 - > [DIR] [16]marius/ 29-Jan-2006 15:05 - > [DIR] [17]megablog/ 16-Jan-2006 10:38 - > [DIR] [18]mel/ 03-Jan-2006 19:35 - > [DIR] [19]obvious/ 10-Jan-2006 13:27 - > [DIR] [20]obviouscom/ 16-Jan-2006 09:43 - > [DIR] [21]oceanbeachsf/ 03-Jan-2006 18:59 - > [DIR] [22]sal/ 07-Jan-2006 15:32 - > [DIR] [23]sanfranciscostories/ 30-Sep-2006 19:40 - > [DIR] [24]sf-lug/ 15-Aug-2006 18:29 - > [DIR] [25]texas/ 05-Apr-2006 18:26 - > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > > Apache/2.1.4 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.1 Server at www.sf-lug.org Port 80 > > References > > 1. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=N;O=D > 2. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=M;O=A > 3. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=S;O=A > 4. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=D;O=A > 5. http://www.sf-lug.org/altmanphoto/ > 6. http://www.sf-lug.org/blogcircle/ > 7. http://www.sf-lug.org/bugzilla/ > 8. http://www.sf-lug.org/chyyegirl/ > 9. http://www.sf-lug.org/circlesoft/ > 10. http://www.sf-lug.org/jesse/ > 11. http://www.sf-lug.org/joey/ > 12. http://www.sf-lug.org/karil/ > 13. http://www.sf-lug.org/karilblog/ > 14. http://www.sf-lug.org/kathy/ > 15. http://www.sf-lug.org/legion/ > 16. http://www.sf-lug.org/marius/ > 17. http://www.sf-lug.org/megablog/ > 18. http://www.sf-lug.org/mel/ > 19. http://www.sf-lug.org/obvious/ > 20. http://www.sf-lug.org/obviouscom/ > 21. http://www.sf-lug.org/oceanbeachsf/ > 22. http://www.sf-lug.org/sal/ > 23. http://www.sf-lug.org/sanfranciscostories/ > 24. http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/ > 25. http://www.sf-lug.org/texas/ > > $ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Wed Oct 4 20:41:35 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:41:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] site down? In-Reply-To: <3B9D5271-5421-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> References: <452410C7.1020908@sfsu.edu> <20061004232108.GQ10809@linuxmafia.com> <3B9D5271-5421-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> Message-ID: <665754F7-5423-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> 20:39 or so, i just changed the ip address for www.sf-lug.org to 208.69.41.175 which is claimed to be correct. dns propagation seems a lot faster in the last year or so, so maybe it'll work later tonight ( Wednesday 20061004 ). On Oct 4, 2006, at 8:26 PM, jim stockford wrote: > > yes, circle turned a bit. i'll make the change to > the ip address--it should be ...175 not ...174. > oops all around on our side. > > On Oct 4, 2006, at 4:21 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > >> Quoting Sameer Verma (sverma at sfsu.edu): >> >>> http://www.sf-lug.org/ cannot be found... >> >> Seems like someone at Circlesoft recently introduced an error into >> Apache HTTPD's virtual-host configurations. (Site seems to be >> reachable, at the moment, only as http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/htdocs/ >> .) >> >> >> $ host www.sf-lug.org >> www.sf-lug.org has address 208.69.41.174 >> $ ping -c 3 www.sf-lug.org >> PING www.sf-lug.org (208.69.41.174) 56(84) bytes of data. >> 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 >> time=59.7 ms >> 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 >> time=51.6 ms >> 64 bytes from circle.circlesoft.com (208.69.41.174): icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 >> time=53.9 ms >> >> --- www.sf-lug.org ping statistics --- >> 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2025ms >> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 51.683/55.131/59.747/3.399 ms >> >> $ lynx -dump http://www.sf-lug.org/ >> >> Index of / >> >> Icon [1]Name [2]Last modified [3]Size >> [4]Description >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ___ >> [DIR] [5]altmanphoto/ 07-Jan-2006 15:37 - >> [DIR] [6]blogcircle/ 04-Mar-2006 11:54 - >> [DIR] [7]bugzilla/ 04-Jan-2006 16:36 - >> [DIR] [8]chyyegirl/ 03-Oct-2006 21:09 - >> [DIR] [9]circlesoft/ 19-Jun-2006 19:29 - >> [DIR] [10]jesse/ 07-Jan-2006 15:31 - >> [DIR] [11]joey/ 19-Jun-2006 19:24 - >> [DIR] [12]karil/ 02-May-2006 00:13 - >> [DIR] [13]karilblog/ 17-Jan-2006 08:02 - >> [DIR] [14]kathy/ 16-Feb-2006 09:20 - >> [DIR] [15]legion/ 03-Jan-2006 21:21 - >> [DIR] [16]marius/ 29-Jan-2006 15:05 - >> [DIR] [17]megablog/ 16-Jan-2006 10:38 - >> [DIR] [18]mel/ 03-Jan-2006 19:35 - >> [DIR] [19]obvious/ 10-Jan-2006 13:27 - >> [DIR] [20]obviouscom/ 16-Jan-2006 09:43 - >> [DIR] [21]oceanbeachsf/ 03-Jan-2006 18:59 - >> [DIR] [22]sal/ 07-Jan-2006 15:32 - >> [DIR] [23]sanfranciscostories/ 30-Sep-2006 19:40 - >> [DIR] [24]sf-lug/ 15-Aug-2006 18:29 - >> [DIR] [25]texas/ 05-Apr-2006 18:26 - >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> _ >> ___ >> >> >> Apache/2.1.4 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.1 Server at www.sf-lug.org Port 80 >> >> References >> >> 1. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=N;O=D >> 2. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=M;O=A >> 3. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=S;O=A >> 4. http://www.sf-lug.org/?C=D;O=A >> 5. http://www.sf-lug.org/altmanphoto/ >> 6. http://www.sf-lug.org/blogcircle/ >> 7. http://www.sf-lug.org/bugzilla/ >> 8. http://www.sf-lug.org/chyyegirl/ >> 9. http://www.sf-lug.org/circlesoft/ >> 10. http://www.sf-lug.org/jesse/ >> 11. http://www.sf-lug.org/joey/ >> 12. http://www.sf-lug.org/karil/ >> 13. http://www.sf-lug.org/karilblog/ >> 14. http://www.sf-lug.org/kathy/ >> 15. http://www.sf-lug.org/legion/ >> 16. http://www.sf-lug.org/marius/ >> 17. http://www.sf-lug.org/megablog/ >> 18. http://www.sf-lug.org/mel/ >> 19. http://www.sf-lug.org/obvious/ >> 20. http://www.sf-lug.org/obviouscom/ >> 21. http://www.sf-lug.org/oceanbeachsf/ >> 22. http://www.sf-lug.org/sal/ >> 23. http://www.sf-lug.org/sanfranciscostories/ >> 24. http://www.sf-lug.org/sf-lug/ >> 25. http://www.sf-lug.org/texas/ >> >> $ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jturner at nonzerosums.org Thu Oct 5 16:51:27 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 16:51:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at SF State Campus (Oct 10) In-Reply-To: <229FEE44-4DCE-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> References: <4519D3D6.7020707@sfsu.edu> <229FEE44-4DCE-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> Message-ID: <45259A7F.9080008@nonzerosums.org> I'll attend too -- and Jim, I may take a ride back home if that still works for you. -- jt jim stockford wrote: > well alright. > I'm going. anyone want a ride, lemme know. > > That's Tuesday, 10/10 get to room 219 in the > business building at 7 PM. > rides back, too. > > > > On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > > >> What: Open Source and Voice over IP: Synergies for Business >> Productivity. >> This presentation/demo will cover the design and use of AstLinux >> (http://www.astlinux.org/) for a small business scenario. >> Time-permitting, I will also demo an Asterisk PBX running TrixBox >> (http://www.trixbox.org/) with a POTS line. >> >> Who: Sameer Verma, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Information Systems at >> SF State. (http://verma.sfsu.edu) >> >> When: October 10, 2006 at 7pm. Will be about one hour long, followed by >> a "free-for-all" discussion on job market, skills, certification, etc. >> by the LUG and others present. >> >> Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 >> >> Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ .If you are in the city, look >> for MUNI directions. SF State has a stop on the M line. >> >> All are welcome to attend. >> >> cheers, >> >> Sameer >> >> -- >> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. >> Associate Professor of Information Systems >> San Francisco State University >> San Francisco CA 94132 USA >> http://verma.sfsu.edu/ >> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Thu Oct 5 17:58:08 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 17:58:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at SF State Campus (Oct 10) In-Reply-To: <45259A7F.9080008@nonzerosums.org> References: <4519D3D6.7020707@sfsu.edu> <229FEE44-4DCE-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> <45259A7F.9080008@nonzerosums.org> Message-ID: gladly! On Oct 5, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Jason Turner wrote: > I'll attend too -- and Jim, I may take a ride back home if that still > works for you. > > -- > jt > > > > jim stockford wrote: >> well alright. >> I'm going. anyone want a ride, lemme know. >> >> That's Tuesday, 10/10 get to room 219 in the >> business building at 7 PM. >> rides back, too. >> >> >> >> On Sep 26, 2006, at 6:28 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: >> >> >>> What: Open Source and Voice over IP: Synergies for Business >>> Productivity. >>> This presentation/demo will cover the design and use of AstLinux >>> (http://www.astlinux.org/) for a small business scenario. >>> Time-permitting, I will also demo an Asterisk PBX running TrixBox >>> (http://www.trixbox.org/) with a POTS line. >>> >>> Who: Sameer Verma, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Information Systems >>> at >>> SF State. (http://verma.sfsu.edu) >>> >>> When: October 10, 2006 at 7pm. Will be about one hour long, followed >>> by >>> a "free-for-all" discussion on job market, skills, certification, >>> etc. >>> by the LUG and others present. >>> >>> Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 >>> >>> Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ .If you are in the city, >>> look >>> for MUNI directions. SF State has a stop on the M line. >>> >>> All are welcome to attend. >>> >>> cheers, >>> >>> Sameer >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. >>> Associate Professor of Information Systems >>> San Francisco State University >>> San Francisco CA 94132 USA >>> http://verma.sfsu.edu/ >>> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > From jim at well.com Fri Oct 6 12:24:31 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 12:24:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: junior systems admin position in SF Message-ID: this seems legit, not too long, and answers at least one member's recent expressed interests. I'm putting it here fast for you, Tony, and anyone else interested. I'll put it up on the job posting page later. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Casey O'Donohoe" > Date: October 6, 2006 12:00:16 PM PDT > To: > Subject: junior systems admin position in SF > > Hi there, > I was hoping to post the position pasted below to SFLUG. ?It?s a good > opportunity for someone with a year or so of systems admin experience, > or someone who?s been administering various OS and would like to focus > more on Unix and Linux. ?Any interested parties can contact me > directly.? This hasn?t been posted at any of the other user groups > yet, so I hope you?ll post it!? Let me know if any clarification is > needed. > ? > IT Convergence is currently looking for a data center intern for the > Support Services practice.? This person will work in our data center > at 365 Main for client projects under the direction of our senior > staff members.? The intern will coordinate with Support Services > project managers and senior technical staff on staging and building > systems.? The intern will improve his/her skills through practical > hands-on work as well as mentorship.? > ? > The ideal candidate?should have 1-3 years experience in Unix > administration in a production environment.? Experience with several > flavors is desired but not required.? Excellent communication skills > are a must.? The ability to take detailed directions and proceed with > minimal supervision will be highly valued.? Most importantly, this > position requires?a strong drive to become a seasoned systems > administrator.? > ? > All candidates should be local to San Francisco and familiar with the > city. > ? > Salary up to $50k. > ? > Kind regards, > ? > IT CONVERGENCE > Casey O'Donohoe?| Recruiter > San Martin 344, 27th Floor > Buenos Aires, Argentina C1004AAH > US/Canada: (800) 675.0032 ext. 2389 > Argentina:? (54) (11) 4000.8400 ext 2389 > Fax:? 54-11-4000-8481 > www.itconvergence.com > ? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4812 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 6 12:42:47 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 12:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: junior systems admin position in SF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061006194247.38378.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Jim. Tony --- jim stockford wrote: > > this seems legit, not too long, and answers at > least one > member's recent expressed interests. > I'm putting it here fast for you, Tony, and > anyone else > interested. I'll put it up on the job posting page > later. > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "Casey O'Donohoe" > > > Date: October 6, 2006 12:00:16 PM PDT > > To: > > Subject: junior systems admin position in SF > > > > Hi there, > > I was hoping to post the position pasted below to > SFLUG. ?It?s a good > > opportunity for someone with a year or so of > systems admin experience, > > or someone who?s been administering various OS and > would like to focus > > more on Unix and Linux. ?Any interested parties > can contact me > > directly.? This hasn?t been posted at any of the > other user groups > > yet, so I hope you?ll post it!? Let me know if any > clarification is > > needed. > > ? > > IT Convergence is currently looking for a data > center intern for the > > Support Services practice.? This person will work > in our data center > > at 365 Main for client projects under the > direction of our senior > > staff members.? The intern will coordinate with > Support Services > > project managers and senior technical staff on > staging and building > > systems.? The intern will improve his/her skills > through practical > > hands-on work as well as mentorship.? > > ? > > The ideal candidate?should have 1-3 years > experience in Unix > > administration in a production environment.? > Experience with several > > flavors is desired but not required.? Excellent > communication skills > > are a must.? The ability to take detailed > directions and proceed with > > minimal supervision will be highly valued.? Most > importantly, this > > position requires?a strong drive to become a > seasoned systems > > administrator.? > > ? > > All candidates should be local to San Francisco > and familiar with the > > city. > > ? > > Salary up to $50k. > > ? > > Kind regards, > > ? > > IT CONVERGENCE > > Casey O'Donohoe?| Recruiter > > San Martin 344, 27th Floor > > Buenos Aires, Argentina C1004AAH > > US/Canada: (800) 675.0032 ext. 2389 > > Argentina:? (54) (11) 4000.8400 ext 2389 > > Fax:? 54-11-4000-8481 > > www.itconvergence.com > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Fri Oct 6 16:30:26 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:30:26 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Baypiggies] wanted: Sr. Web UI Engineer Message-ID: <8bfdddcc92a28871f3fd7b989c537442@well.com> another job posting: check out the craigslist URL for details. > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/216596574.html This is in the "dog" building on Howard Street in the SOMA district (dogs are allowed and liked). related: http://www.kapor.com/projects/supported.html gives details of kapor-supported enterprises (creative commons is in the building). http://www.mkf.org/ mitch kapor foundation Begin forwarded message: > From: "Shannon -jj Behrens" > Date: October 5, 2006 5:17:37 PM PDT > To: Python > Subject: [Baypiggies] wanted: Sr. Web UI Engineer > > Hey, we're looking for a Sr. Web UI Engineer. We're a Python shop. > You'll get to work with the famous Mitch Kapor as well as me (not > famous at all). More details: > > http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/sof/216596574.html > > Happy Hacking! > -jj > > -- > The one who gets the last laugh isn't the one who did the laughing, > but rather the one who did the writing. > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1408 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul at astropaul.com Sun Oct 8 05:04:12 2006 From: paul at astropaul.com (Paul Reilly) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 05:04:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF co-lo & servers? Message-ID: <1160309052.4528e93c1e127@mail.third-rock.net> Hi, I'm looking to host a co-lo server in the SF area and would welcome any advice on the best providers. I'd like it to be in downtown SF if possible, and so I was thinking of using ColoServer.com Has anybody on the list got any good/bad experience with them? Are there any others that you would recommend? As I live in Europe, I also need purchase the server off a company that has good on-site support. I need an Opteron server, and was looking at getting one of the Altus servers from PenguinComputing. Are there any other companies in the SF area which offer good linux (debian) proven servers, and have good on-site support? Thanks, Paul From jim at well.com Sun Oct 8 10:31:51 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 10:31:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF co-lo & servers? In-Reply-To: <1160309052.4528e93c1e127@mail.third-rock.net> References: <1160309052.4528e93c1e127@mail.third-rock.net> Message-ID: <1a03846c0dc2358b2d1bf028c502cfcb@well.com> with respect to quality (power doesn't fail, no heat/cooling problems, there's competent staff 24 hours...), the two for which i've seen the best feedback are 365 main street in san francisco in the downtown area. http://www.365main.com/ NOTE: there's a claim that it's full. Infinex is reselling space in 365 Main. http://www.infinex.com/datacenter.html 200 paul street in san francisco, but at the south end, easily accessible from highway 101 or by #15 muni bus. http://www.pacificinternetexchange.net/ there are cheaper, but not by much, and rumor/internet reviews are more spotty. Claims are all colo providers in SF are pretty much full. But if all you want is a one or two unit space, you can probably get it in most places. why in downtown SF if you're in europe? On Oct 8, 2006, at 5:04 AM, Paul Reilly wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm looking to host a co-lo server in the SF area and would welcome > any advice on the best providers. I'd like it to be in downtown > SF if possible, and so I was thinking of using ColoServer.com > Has anybody on the list got any good/bad experience with them? > Are there any others that you would recommend? > > As I live in Europe, I also need purchase the server off a > company that has good on-site support. I need an Opteron server, > and was looking at getting one of the Altus servers from > PenguinComputing. Are there any other companies in the SF > area which offer good linux (debian) proven servers, and have > good on-site support? > > Thanks, > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs at sonic.net Sun Oct 8 13:08:23 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 13:08:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Annc: Tux Paint 0.9.16rc2 available for beta testing Message-ID: <20061008200823.GI31141@sonic.net> Just a brief announcement to let my local LUG friends know that a new version of Tux Paint is coming soon! We've rolled together source tarballs (good for Linux) and Win32 EXE installer and ZIP variations of Release Candidate 2. You can find them here: ftp://ftp.tuxpaint.org/unix/x/tuxpaint/testbuilds/ (Note: There are RPMs there too, but they're a month old. Use the source versions for now!) I'll send out a more informative announcement upon official release of Tux Paint 0.9.16 and friends. In the meantime, if you've got time, check it out and send me bugs! :^) Thanks, -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 09:26:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 09:26:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG at SFSU this Tuesday, 10/10, 7 PM to 9 PM Message-ID: Reminder--Sameer has invited SF-LUG to participate in his Tuesday evening class in which he'll demo Asterisk, the software PBX on VoIP, and then follow with discussion. Want a ride? Let me know (jim at well.com), to and/or from within San Francisco tenderloin and west (BART, muni). Got ideas for discussion topics? * job possibilities in the Open Source world * resources in the city of San Francisco (lugs, books, software, computer hardware, temp agencies....) * Class is on the SFSU campus, 19th and Holloway, take the M line from downtown, be there at 7:00 PM. Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ -----Sameer's previous email below----- What: Open Source and Voice over IP: Synergies for Business Productivity. This presentation/demo will cover the design and use of AstLinux (http://www.astlinux.org/) for a small business scenario. Time-permitting, I will also demo an Asterisk PBX running TrixBox (http://www.trixbox.org/) with a POTS line. Who: Sameer Verma, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Information Systems at SF State. (http://verma.sfsu.edu) When: October 10, 2006 at 7pm. Will be about one hour long, followed by a "free-for-all" discussion on job market, skills, certification, etc. by the LUG and others present. Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ .If you are in the city, look for MUNI directions. SF State has a stop on the M line. All are welcome to attend. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 10:00:55 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:00:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about SF-LUG Message-ID: about SF-LUG Our mailing list topped 100 a couple of weeks ago, so I tho't I'd put out this summary of the group. **** WEB SITE is http://www.sf-lug.org hosted on circlesoft.com web page is HTML via the vi editor, per jim stockford needs a backup person (jim is happy to be the backup person). **** MAILING LIST is http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug hosted on linuxmafia.com mailman admins are lx with jim as backup data janitoring by rick moen archives http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/ SAY: for those of you who may not know: <------ To offer opinions or ask questions, put 'em in an email addressed to sf-lug at linuxmafia.com **** MEETINGS are the first Sunday 11 to 1 and the third Monday 6 to 8 at the Javacat on Geary at 20th in San Francisco. There's a Red Hat-ish box at the Javacat located at 192.168.1.201 on their LAN. ask for a login account if you want to share scripts, sys admin questions.... We may have meetings at San Francisco State University on the second Thursday of some months, stay tuned. **** There are a few PROJECTS a few of us have shared: -- python study group, active -- red hat certification study group, seems dormant -- build-a-box, met once: jim took box for repair, now ready There are other possibilities, for instance, if you want to work on the web site, send a note (the current restriction is that work is directly editable by a text editor). From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 10:33:15 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:33:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about sf-lug, addendum Message-ID: the mailing list has an archive of email since we went to linuxmafia.com: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/ at one point i did statistics (a self-defense move in the wake of the first flame out, which, privately, i was delighted to see): at the time, email averaged about 3 messages per day, typical peaks were around 14, occasional maximums exceeded 20, something like 20% of days saw no email. From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 14:47:35 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:47:35 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Asterisk vs. Monitoring SIG Message-ID: <8c1e2298a1f2378ddf74a0eb98d7cbe0@well.com> another Asterisk meeting tomorrow (Tuesday) night, courtesy of http://www.groundworkopensource.com/ > > Inaugural Monitoring SIG meeting tomorrow (Tuesday, October 10) at 7PM > (in conjunction with BayLISA, the local Large Installation System > Administrators chapter).? They'll be a short overview presentation on > Open Source monitoring tools and and then we'll open it up for a > discussion of issues people want to cover in the SIG. All interested > parties are invited (nay, heartily encouraged!) to attend. > > Here's the text-based announcement: feel free to forward it as you see > fit: > ----------------------------------------------------- > > What:? Inaugural Monitoring SIG Meeting > Who:? Anyone interested in IT monitoring issues and tools > When:? Tuesday, October 10 2006, 7PM > Where:? GroundWork Open Source, 139 Townsend St., San Francisco > How:? 139 Townsend St. is very near AT&T Park, two blocks from the > CalTrain Depot.? Take the MUNI N trolley "inbound" to 2nd and King > (ballpark stop) or take the 15 or 30 buses crosstown.? Free evening > street parking can usually be found. > > We'll have a brief presentation and then brainstorm about ways to > build the finest sys admin/IT tools for monitoring and how this SIG > can facilitate that.? Food (probably pizza) and drinks (definitely > pop) will be provided by GroundWork. > > RSVP (not necessary, but helpful): Peter Mui, > pmui at groundworkopensource.com, 415 992 4573 > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > If I wasn't helping with ours, I'd attend the Asterisk event (smile.) > > Cheers, -Peter > > > Peter Mui,?Open Source Community Advocate > GROUNDWORK Open Source, Inc. > 139 Townsend Street, Suite 100 > San Francisco, CA 94107-1946 > +1 415 992 4573?(direct) > +1 415 947 0684 (fax) > pmui at groundworkopensource.com > From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 14:54:55 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:54:55 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Fwd: junior systems admin position in SF Message-ID: <66ecb288892b5b87d9a0d774e538fc38@well.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: John Strazzarino > Date: October 9, 2006 2:11:12 PM PDT > To: jim stockford > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: junior systems admin position in SF > > Jim, > ? > I called the headhunter for this job and she requested my resume.? > We'll see how it goes.? Thanks for the tip. > ? > John > ? > P.S.? Yes, Casey?really is in Argentina.? She moved there a year ago > from New York > > jim stockford wrote: >> >> this seems legit, not too long, and answers at least one >> member's recent expressed interests. >> I'm putting it here fast for you, Tony, and anyone else >> interested. I'll put it up on the job posting page later. >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> > From: "Casey O'Donohoe" >> > Date: October 6, 2006 12:00:16 PM PDT >> > To: >> > Subject: junior systems admin position in SF >> > >> > Hi there, >> > I was hoping to post the position pasted below to SFLUG. ?It?s a >> good >> > opportunity for someone with a year or so of systems admin >> experience, >> > or someone who?s been administering various OS and would like to >> focus >> > more on Unix and Linux. ?Any interested parties can contact me >> > directly.? This hasn?t been posted at any of the other user groups >> > yet, so I hope you?ll post it!? Let me know if any clarification is >> > needed. >> > ? >> > IT Convergence is currently looking for a data center intern for the >> > Support Services practice.? This person will work in our data center >> > at 365 Main for client projects under the direction of our senior >> > staff members.? The intern will coordinate with Support Services >> > project managers and senior technical staff on staging and building >> > systems.? The intern will improve his/her skills through practical >> > hands-on work as well as mentorship.? >> > ? >> > The ideal candidate?should have 1-3 years experience in Unix >> > administration in a production environment.? Experience with several >> > flavors is desired but not required.? Excellent communication skills >> > are a must.? The ability to take detailed directions and proceed >> with >> > minimal supervision will be highly valued.? Most importantly, this >> > position requires?a strong drive to become a seasoned systems >> > administrator.? >> > ? >> > All candidates should be local to San Francisco and familiar with >> the >> > city. >> > ? >> > Salary up to $50k. >> > ? >> > Kind regards, >> > ? >> > IT CONVERGENCE >> > Casey O'Donohoe?| Recruiter >> > San Martin 344, 27th Floor >> > Buenos Aires, Argentina C1004AAH >> > US/Canada: (800) 675.0032 ext. 2389 >> > Argentina:? (54) (11) 4000.8400 ext 2389 >> > Fax:? 54-11-4000-8481 >> > www.itconvergence.com >> > ? >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3150 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 14:44:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:44:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: about SF-LUG Message-ID: <94e0a4b3c0bde36c4e13adfd5ddc5710@well.com> > Jim, > ? > I can give you a hand with the web site.? Just tell me what you need > and I can take care of it for you. > ? > As for the Red Hat Certification group, I have some knowledge in that > area.? Not sure what you're looking for, but willing to help > ? > Take Care > ? > John > ? > > > jim stockford wrote: >> >> >> about SF-LUG >> >> Our mailing list topped 100 a couple of weeks ago, so I >> tho't I'd put out this summary of the group. >> >> **** WEB SITE is http://www.sf-lug.org >> hosted on circlesoft.com >> web page is HTML via the vi editor, per jim stockford >> needs a backup person (jim is happy to be the backup person). >> >> >> **** MAILING LIST is http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> hosted on linuxmafia.com >> mailman admins are lx with jim as backup >> data janitoring by rick moen >> archives http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/ >> >> SAY: for those of you who may not know: <------ >> To offer opinions or ask questions, >> put 'em in an email addressed to >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> >> **** MEETINGS are the first Sunday 11 to 1 and the third >> Monday 6 to 8 at the Javacat on Geary at 20th in San >> Francisco. >> There's a Red Hat-ish box at the Javacat located at >> 192.168.1.201 on their LAN. ask for a login account >> if you want to share scripts, sys admin questions.... >> >> We may have meetings at San Francisco State University >> on the second Thursday of some months, stay tuned. >> >> >> **** There are a few PROJECTS a few of us have shared: >> -- python study group, active >> -- red hat certification study group, seems dormant >> -- build-a-box, met once: jim took box for repair, now ready >> >> There are other possibilities, for instance, if you want >> to work on the web site, send a note (the current restriction >> is that work is directly editable by a text editor). >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2091 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 14:44:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 14:44:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: about SF-LUG Message-ID: <94e0a4b3c0bde36c4e13adfd5ddc5710@well.com> > Jim, > ? > I can give you a hand with the web site.? Just tell me what you need > and I can take care of it for you. > ? > As for the Red Hat Certification group, I have some knowledge in that > area.? Not sure what you're looking for, but willing to help > ? > Take Care > ? > John > ? > > > jim stockford wrote: >> >> >> about SF-LUG >> >> Our mailing list topped 100 a couple of weeks ago, so I >> tho't I'd put out this summary of the group. >> >> **** WEB SITE is http://www.sf-lug.org >> hosted on circlesoft.com >> web page is HTML via the vi editor, per jim stockford >> needs a backup person (jim is happy to be the backup person). >> >> >> **** MAILING LIST is http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> hosted on linuxmafia.com >> mailman admins are lx with jim as backup >> data janitoring by rick moen >> archives http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/ >> >> SAY: for those of you who may not know: <------ >> To offer opinions or ask questions, >> put 'em in an email addressed to >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> >> **** MEETINGS are the first Sunday 11 to 1 and the third >> Monday 6 to 8 at the Javacat on Geary at 20th in San >> Francisco. >> There's a Red Hat-ish box at the Javacat located at >> 192.168.1.201 on their LAN. ask for a login account >> if you want to share scripts, sys admin questions.... >> >> We may have meetings at San Francisco State University >> on the second Thursday of some months, stay tuned. >> >> >> **** There are a few PROJECTS a few of us have shared: >> -- python study group, active >> -- red hat certification study group, seems dormant >> -- build-a-box, met once: jim took box for repair, now ready >> >> There are other possibilities, for instance, if you want >> to work on the web site, send a note (the current restriction >> is that work is directly editable by a text editor). >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Do you Yahoo!? > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2091 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnlowry at gmail.com Mon Oct 9 15:07:38 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:07:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Asterisk vs. Monitoring SIG In-Reply-To: <8c1e2298a1f2378ddf74a0eb98d7cbe0@well.com> References: <8c1e2298a1f2378ddf74a0eb98d7cbe0@well.com> Message-ID: <452AC82A.7010606@gmail.com> I think the Special Interest Group is for IT monitoring tools. At the bottom there is a mention that someone else has an asterisk meeting. jim stockford wrote: > another Asterisk meeting tomorrow (Tuesday) night, > courtesy of http://www.groundworkopensource.com/ > >> Inaugural Monitoring SIG meeting tomorrow (Tuesday, October 10) at 7PM >> (in conjunction with BayLISA, the local Large Installation System >> Administrators chapter). They'll be a short overview presentation on >> Open Source monitoring tools and and then we'll open it up for a >> discussion of issues people want to cover in the SIG. All interested >> parties are invited (nay, heartily encouraged!) to attend. >> >> Here's the text-based announcement: feel free to forward it as you see >> fit: >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> What: Inaugural Monitoring SIG Meeting >> Who: Anyone interested in IT monitoring issues and tools >> When: Tuesday, October 10 2006, 7PM >> Where: GroundWork Open Source, 139 Townsend St., San Francisco >> How: 139 Townsend St. is very near AT&T Park, two blocks from the >> CalTrain Depot. Take the MUNI N trolley "inbound" to 2nd and King >> (ballpark stop) or take the 15 or 30 buses crosstown. Free evening >> street parking can usually be found. >> >> We'll have a brief presentation and then brainstorm about ways to >> build the finest sys admin/IT tools for monitoring and how this SIG >> can facilitate that. Food (probably pizza) and drinks (definitely >> pop) will be provided by GroundWork. >> >> RSVP (not necessary, but helpful): Peter Mui, >> pmui at groundworkopensource.com, 415 992 4573 >> >> ----------------------------------------------------- >> >> If I wasn't helping with ours, I'd attend the Asterisk event (smile.) >> >> Cheers, -Peter >> >> >> Peter Mui, Open Source Community Advocate >> GROUNDWORK Open Source, Inc. >> 139 Townsend Street, Suite 100 >> San Francisco, CA 94107-1946 >> +1 415 992 4573 (direct) >> +1 415 947 0684 (fax) >> pmui at groundworkopensource.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From alamozzz at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 16:46:15 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 16:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux posters Message-ID: <20061009234615.30808.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> Hey, I've made some Linux posters. Have spoken with someone about perhaps printing and selling them, with a portion of the proceeds going to the Free Software Foundation. Scaled-down versions are on my website, at: http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_gnu.html http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_is_hot.html Any feedback is appreciated. Cheers, Adrien --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 17:14:42 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:14:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux posters In-Reply-To: <20061009234615.30808.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061009234615.30808.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7929c9b506d79d940a03d8fddaa383f7@well.com> i get 404 for linux_gnu.html On Oct 9, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Hey, > > I've made some Linux posters. Have spoken with someone about perhaps > printing and selling them, with a portion of the proceeds going to the > Free Software Foundation. Scaled-down versions are on my website, at: > > ???? http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_gnu.html > ???? http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_is_hot.html > > Any feedback is appreciated. > > Cheers, > > Adrien > > > > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Mon Oct 9 17:21:06 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 17:21:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux posters In-Reply-To: <7929c9b506d79d940a03d8fddaa383f7@well.com> References: <20061009234615.30808.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com> <7929c9b506d79d940a03d8fddaa383f7@well.com> Message-ID: <7e375aea7afe161b70b2dbc928847639@well.com> crikey, i sent it to the list--it's okay, must have been a copy-and-paste glitch. http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_gnu.html On Oct 9, 2006, at 5:14 PM, jim stockford wrote: > > i get 404 for linux_gnu.html > > On Oct 9, 2006, at 4:46 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> I've made some Linux posters. Have spoken with someone about perhaps >> printing and selling them, with a portion of the proceeds going to >> the Free Software Foundation. Scaled-down versions are on my website, >> at: >> >> ???? http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_gnu.html >> ???? http://www.adriensweb.com/images/linux_is_hot.html >> >> Any feedback is appreciated. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Adrien >> >> >> >> Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Tue Oct 10 09:01:07 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:01:07 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] anybody need a ride to SFSU this evening? Message-ID: <6547e108a364a0d6fff709ddd0b243d9@well.com> send email if you want a ride to. i got a van that seats six comfortably and might squeeze in seven. rides back to the richmond-tenderloin strip for anyone who gets there (up to seven total). From jim at well.com Tue Oct 10 17:38:09 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:38:09 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] pick up at Javacat Message-ID: I'm going to the Javacat to pickup people to go to SFSU for tonight's meeting. Leaving Javacat at 6:15 and heading down 19th. Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ .If you are in the city, look for MUNI directions. SF State has a stop on the M line. From dymondog at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 18:34:41 2006 From: dymondog at yahoo.com (Robert Briley) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Web designer rates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061011013442.80694.qmail@web31502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a friend who is doing web designing and wants to know what a reasonable rate is to charge. She is doing some very basic developement without flash. Sites usually consist of 7-10 pages of of information which she writes as well as a slide show of products etc. She has some strong experience in the feild as a fill-time marketing person, but has not done much design in the past few years and has never worked as a contractor. Your suggestios would be appreicated. Robert (415) 806-0705 Let us become inspired by inherent beauty, and not impassioned by manufactured hate. ~Nima Shirali, Middle Eastern Reconciliation Forum --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 19:07:31 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Web designer rates Message-ID: <20061011020731.47040.qmail@web82809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does she know css? $25 - $30/hr. Does she know graphic design? --- sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com wrote: > I have a friend who is doing web designing and wants to know what a reasonable rate is to charge. She is doing some very basic developement without flash. Sites usually consist of 7-10 pages of of information which she writes as well as a slide show of products etc. She has some strong experience in the feild as a fill-time marketing person, but has not done much design in the past few years and has never worked as a contractor. Your suggestios would be appreicated. > > > > Robert > (415) 806-0705 > > > > > Let us become inspired by inherent beauty, and not impassioned by manufactured hate. > ~Nima Shirali, Middle Eastern Reconciliation Forum > > > --------------------------------- > All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. > ------------ > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Wed Oct 11 08:21:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:21:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF co-lo & servers? In-Reply-To: <20061009022101.63517.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061009022101.63517.qmail@web35614.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4bd74fd7631aaf20a1556290b40c834c@well.com> there are co-los all over, i'm sure. according to the Taos internal email, a lot of them are not so good. I don't know to what degree this impression may be overly pissy or accurate. complaints include electrical failure (problems with big UPS systems that are a sine qua non for co-los), too much heat, and missing or insufficiently competent on-site staff. anybody got knowledge, especially of other co-los in san francisco that are okay? On Oct 8, 2006, at 7:21 PM, John Strazzarino wrote: > Jim, > ? > I also wondered why he needed a co-lo in S.F. if he's in Europe?? I am > sure that there are good co-lo's all over the place. > ? > Just Wondering > ? > John > ? > > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 817 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nbs at sonic.net Wed Oct 11 09:01:23 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:01:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [fwd] FLOSS Usability III! [Oct. 27-29, Mountain View] Message-ID: <20061011160123.GG14053@sonic.net> ----- Forwarded message from Eugene Eric Kim ----- Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:19:10 -0700 From: Eugene Eric Kim Subject: [sprint] FLOSS Usability III! FLOSS Usability Sprint III is here and happening -- for real! It'll be October 27-29, 2006 at Google. Many thanks to Rick Boardman and Google for hosting the event! http://www.flossusability.org/ This event will be slightly different than our last two in that the first day (Friday, October 27) will be evening only -- 6pm-9pm. Saturday and Sunday, we'll work all day, 9am-6pm. Also, in addition to working with projects, we'll be spending part of the time organizing a remote usability sprint. We've got a couple of projects signed up already, with room for a few more. If you're interested in participating, please submit an application at the web site. We've got limited space, so please register quickly, and spread the word! Thanks! Looking forward to seeing many of you there. =Eugene -- ====================================================================== Eugene Eric Kim ................................ http://xri.net/=eekim Blue Oxen Associates ........................ http://www.blueoxen.com/ ====================================================================== -- This message is archived at: http://www.flossusability.org/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi?a=sprint&i=452C2A6E.4070505 at blueoxen.com ----- End forwarded message ----- -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From johnlowry at gmail.com Wed Oct 11 14:13:33 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:13:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] VoIP providers Message-ID: <452D5E7D.4020709@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I am looking for a way to connect my asterisk installation to PSTN and my understanding is that I need a provider. Is there anyone out there that has good or bad stories about Bay Area providers? - -- John Lowry johnlowry at gmail.com (415) 341-4298 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFLV58O75UGio03IQRAuKKAJ9jABFZTA0kn3WkFy5Cc4nehCydcgCeMUId 7Ye3jcHsksmpDE5fdEu4Gqw= =wGTN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed Oct 11 16:43:48 2006 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:43:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF-LUG meeting at SF State Campus (Oct 10) In-Reply-To: <4519D3D6.7020707@sfsu.edu> References: <4519D3D6.7020707@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <452D81B4.1060704@sfsu.edu> Sameer Verma wrote: > What: Open Source and Voice over IP: Synergies for Business Productivity. > This presentation/demo will cover the design and use of AstLinux > (http://www.astlinux.org/) for a small business scenario. > Time-permitting, I will also demo an Asterisk PBX running TrixBox > (http://www.trixbox.org/) with a POTS line. > > Who: Sameer Verma, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Information Systems at > SF State. (http://verma.sfsu.edu) > > When: October 10, 2006 at 7pm. Will be about one hour long, followed by > a "free-for-all" discussion on job market, skills, certification, etc. > by the LUG and others present. > > Where: SF State campus - Business building, room 219 > > Directions: http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ .If you are in the city, look > for MUNI directions. SF State has a stop on the M line. > > All are welcome to attend. > > cheers, > > Sameer > > A big"Thank you" to those who attended the Asterisk presentation yesterday. Slides are up at http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/228 in PDF and OpenDocument formats. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim at well.com Thu Oct 12 11:39:08 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:39:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] [fwd] FLOSS Usability III! [Oct. 27-29, Mountain View] Message-ID: Thanks to PenLUG for the info: free/libre open source software http://www.flossusability.org/ excerpt from web site: FLOSS Usability Sprint III: October 27-29, 2006 Aspiration and Blue Oxen Associates are hosting the third FLOSS Usability Sprint on October 27-29, 2006 at Google in Mountain View, California. The goal is two-fold: To improve the usability of the participating projects, and to catalyze greater shared understanding and ongoing collaboration between the usability and open source communities. ?? (1) If you are a usability practitioner, FLOSS developer, or user and are interested in participating, please fill out our application. ?? (37K) As always, the event will be self-documenting on our event Wiki under Creative Commons license to encourage the broadest use, adoption and ongoing enhancement of those resources. ?? (D) Home Agenda Call for Participants FAQ Organizers Sponsors Contact Wiki Mailing List IRC Channel From the PenLUG email: Begin forwarded message: > From: Bill Kendrick > Date: October 11, 2006 9:01:03 AM PDT > To: PenLUG Members > Subject: [PenLUG] [fwd] FLOSS Usability III! [Oct. 27-29, Mountain > View] > > ----- Forwarded message from Eugene Eric Kim ----- > > Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:19:10 -0700 > From: Eugene Eric Kim > Subject: [sprint] FLOSS Usability III! > > FLOSS Usability Sprint III is here and happening -- for real! It'll be > October 27-29, 2006 at Google. Many thanks to Rick Boardman and > Google for > hosting the event! > > http://www.flossusability.org/ > > This event will be slightly different than our last two in that the > first > day (Friday, October 27) will be evening only -- 6pm-9pm. Saturday and > Sunday, we'll work all day, 9am-6pm. Also, in addition to working with > projects, we'll be spending part of the time organizing a remote > usability > sprint. > > We've got a couple of projects signed up already, with room for a few > more. > If you're interested in participating, please submit an application > at the > web site. We've got limited space, so please register quickly, and > spread > the word! > > Thanks! Looking forward to seeing many of you there. > > =Eugene > > -- > ====================================================================== > Eugene Eric Kim ................................ http://xri.net/=eekim > Blue Oxen Associates ........................ http://www.blueoxen.com/ > ====================================================================== > > -- > This message is archived at: > > http://www.flossusability.org/forums/cgi-bin/mesg.cgi? > a=sprint&i=452C2A6E.4070505 at blueoxen.com > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > -bill! > bill at newbreedsoftware.com > http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > PenLUG-Members mailing list > PenLUG-Members at penlug.org > http://www.penlug.org/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4649 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Fri Oct 13 14:29:30 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 14:29:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB] Senior Linux Sys Adm for MobiTV's production environment Message-ID: <1356401a28e1e7f7ed2a470680d4d450@well.com> Below is a summary of the job position. Rob's complete job description is on the sf-lug job posting page: http://64.81.61.186/test/sf-lug/sf-lugJobs.html [JOB] Red Hat Linux Senior System Administrator, Emoryville, CA, Salary "competitive" Analyze, plan, develop, debug... MobiTV streaming video and radio service as it scales in both capacity and complexity. Focus on uptime, quality, and security as well as integration of new carriers, content, services, upgrades into the MobiTV global network. Candidate should have 5+ years working with highly scalable 24x7x365 "live" production network environments along with 3+ years scripting, Red Hat, profiling and monitoring tools on Intel-based systems in a colo-grade environment to support HTTP, SMTP, SSH, NFS, DNS, SNMP, FTP protocols, clients and servers. Must be able to work rotating shifts, balance competing priorities, and gracefully react to high-priority requirements with little or no notice. Submit inquiries and resumes to?rmooney at mobitv.com Rob Mooney Sr. Recruiter MobiTV ? Live Television. Anywhere. Anytime. Direct: 510-450-5213 rmooney at mobitv.com www.mobitv.com From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 15:17:11 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:17:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB] Senior Linux Sys Adm for MobiTV's production environment In-Reply-To: <1356401a28e1e7f7ed2a470680d4d450@well.com> Message-ID: <20061013221711.72902.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jim: Sounds like a high pressure job. Tony --- jim stockford wrote: > > Below is a summary of the job position. > > Rob's complete job description is on the sf-lug job > posting page: > http://64.81.61.186/test/sf-lug/sf-lugJobs.html > > [JOB] Red Hat Linux Senior System Administrator, > Emoryville, CA, Salary > "competitive" > > Analyze, plan, develop, debug... MobiTV streaming > video and radio > service as it scales in both capacity and > complexity. Focus on uptime, > quality, and security as well as integration of new > carriers, content, > services, upgrades into the MobiTV global network. > > Candidate should have 5+ years working with highly > scalable 24x7x365 > "live" production network environments along with 3+ > years scripting, > Red Hat, profiling and monitoring tools on > Intel-based systems in a > colo-grade environment to support HTTP, SMTP, SSH, > NFS, DNS, SNMP, FTP > protocols, clients and servers. > > Must be able to work rotating shifts, balance > competing priorities, and > gracefully react to high-priority requirements with > little or no > notice. > > Submit inquiries and resumes to?rmooney at mobitv.com > Rob Mooney > Sr. Recruiter > MobiTV ? Live Television. Anywhere. Anytime. > Direct: 510-450-5213 > rmooney at mobitv.com > www.mobitv.com > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Fri Oct 13 15:31:50 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 15:31:50 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [JOB] Senior Linux Sys Adm for MobiTV's production environment In-Reply-To: <20061013221711.72902.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061013221711.72902.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6aa0cd252f39a7be30661e923807c99c@well.com> it does sound intense. the full description ( http://64.81.61.186/test/sf-lug/sf-lugJobs.html ) paints some rosiness to it -- good people, good benefits..., along with a long, long list of tasks and skills needed/wanted/hoped for. Did you ask Rob for more info? On Oct 13, 2006, at 3:17 PM, Tony wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Sounds like a high pressure job. > > Tony > > --- jim stockford wrote: > >> >> Below is a summary of the job position. >> >> Rob's complete job description is on the sf-lug job >> posting page: >> http://64.81.61.186/test/sf-lug/sf-lugJobs.html >> >> [JOB] Red Hat Linux Senior System Administrator, >> Emoryville, CA, Salary >> "competitive" >> >> Analyze, plan, develop, debug... MobiTV streaming >> video and radio >> service as it scales in both capacity and >> complexity. Focus on uptime, >> quality, and security as well as integration of new >> carriers, content, >> services, upgrades into the MobiTV global network. >> >> Candidate should have 5+ years working with highly >> scalable 24x7x365 >> "live" production network environments along with 3+ >> years scripting, >> Red Hat, profiling and monitoring tools on >> Intel-based systems in a >> colo-grade environment to support HTTP, SMTP, SSH, >> NFS, DNS, SNMP, FTP >> protocols, clients and servers. >> >> Must be able to work rotating shifts, balance >> competing priorities, and >> gracefully react to high-priority requirements with >> little or no >> notice. >> >> Submit inquiries and resumes to?rmooney at mobitv.com >> Rob Mooney >> Sr. Recruiter >> MobiTV ? Live Television. Anywhere. Anytime. >> Direct: 510-450-5213 >> rmooney at mobitv.com >> www.mobitv.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > From jim at well.com Sat Oct 14 13:39:32 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 13:39:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] monday night at the javacat 6 PM Message-ID: our usual third-monday-of-the-month meeting at the javacat on Geary at 20th avenue at 6:00 PM till 8:00 PM. Come by! From jim at well.com Mon Oct 16 15:52:06 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:52:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing Message-ID: <7bd646894f49b143a7f8074df7d30f6d@well.com> sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss this tonight and via email in the next weeks. * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and servepath in particular. * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can come to the servepath facility and ask questions of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. * i can take one of my tower machines down there after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. * if any of you are interested in learning about a colo facility, come down with me for the install. * at some point i think it would be good to get a 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? I'm hoping one or more of you will help me * configure the box for the coloing * move the box to the colo site * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck the site could be neglected. From jim at well.com Mon Oct 16 17:15:34 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:15:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: two projects Message-ID: Here are suggestions from Mike Weber at SpiderTools.com (CyberMontana, Inc., provides lots of training online, via CD and DVD, and hardcopy--this is where I buy most of my distros). Begin forwarded message: > From: mike > Date: October 16, 2006 4:33:31 PM PDT > To: jim stockford > Subject: Re: two projects > Reply-To: mogyweb at blackfoot.net > > Jim; > > Here are a few options that work well: > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/motherboards/EPIA_M10000 > > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/motherboards/EPIA_5000 > > This case is not as good looking as some but I have found it works > well. > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/itx_cases/MOREX_3677 > > I used Centos or DSL on these boards. > > Mike > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:22 -0700, jim stockford wrote: >> 1: multiple units in a single two-unit rackable case (enclosure) >> the idea is to have a mini network in a 2U case, all linux nodes. >> one node would be the gateway with just about nothing on it >> except sshd and squid (httpd proxy), two NICs, one for external, >> the other for the internal LAN. >> second node would have almost nothing on it except sshd and >> httpd and maybe a rdbms with some scripts (I'm learning python, >> so that's the top candidate). >> third node would have a fairly full-featured bunch of stuff, >> including RPMs and two RAID 1 drives. >> For all units, 1GHz is sufficient; i love RAM, so 1GB RAM always >> seems good, except in the case of 2GB; one or two hard drives; >> maybe one or two CD or DVD units in the box. >> Seems the internal LAN should include an internal switch that >> presents an external jack for someone bringing a laptop for on-site >> ssh access. >> I suppose there might be an easy way for each internal unit >> to present console connections via cable to bulkhead connex. I >> also suppose that's not useful--better to bring the laptop and >> have X on the laptop render the GUI stuff on the internal nodes. >> >> 2: very low power linux boxes on a boat. The idea is to have a >> small, very low power network on the boat, hopefully directly >> powered by 12VDC. >> I cannot find a source for internet access from a boat that's >> out on the ocean. Gotta be satellite connex, I think, unless >> possible to tap a passing submarine. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2568 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Mon Oct 16 17:19:22 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:19:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing Message-ID: <4dea9eb76843a3a80e8b77dbd158756c@well.com> (looks like we'll have to fix up tom's account--triggers notice to lx and me re mailman) Here's suggestions from tom: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Thomas DiZoglio" > Date: October 16, 2006 5:01:51 PM PDT > To: "jim stockford" , "SFLUG Mailing List" > > Subject: RE: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > > Hey, > > Here is a product. > > This company has some SBC's and they sell enclosures for there boxes. > Not sure linux distro runs: > > http://www.ampro.com/index_interactive_GIF.asp > > This runs red hat, 2 ether ports,.... Might be more than u looking for: > > http://www.versalogic.com/Products/DS.asp?ProductID=164 > > > Also, this link is a SBC - Linux Quick reference guide: > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html > > It is a great site for finding what you are looking for. > -------------------- > t0md > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:52 PM > To: SFLUG Mailing List > Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > > > sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in > their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss > this tonight and via email in the next weeks. > * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to > one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 > at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and > servepath in particular. > * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can > come to the servepath facility and ask questions > of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. > * i can take one of my tower machines down there > after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. > * if any of you are interested in learning about a > colo facility, come down with me for the install. > * at some point i think it would be good to get a > 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my > idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any > one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that > runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? > > I'm hoping one or more of you will help me > * configure the box for the coloing > * move the box to the colo site > * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the > only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck > the site could be neglected. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2729 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Oct 16 17:27:34 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:27:34 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing In-Reply-To: <4dea9eb76843a3a80e8b77dbd158756c@well.com> References: <4dea9eb76843a3a80e8b77dbd158756c@well.com> Message-ID: <20061017002734.GJ26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > > (looks like we'll have to fix up tom's account--triggers > notice to lx and me re mailman) > Here's suggestions from tom: FYI, all you do is go to the admin screen as the notice tells you to do (http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/admindb/sf-lug). You'll notice that there's a held message from thomas.dizoglio at riverbed.com . Pick the radio button "Accept". Below that, check the checkbox for "Add thomas.dizoglio at riverbed.com to one of these sender filters:" and select _its_ radio buttion of "Accepts". Last, select button "Submit All Data" at the bottom (or top) of the page. If you do that, it will not be necessary to manually forward the message, as you did -- and the new sending address will get added to the "OK to send from this address even though it's not subscribed" roster (paraphrased). Thomas keeps encountering this problem because he occasionally starts posting from yet another non-subscribed address. But you can pretty easily fix the problem as it comes up, for each new posting address someone uses. Anyhow, you should still do the above; the post is still being held for your review. From marcjc at gmail.com Mon Oct 16 21:22:49 2006 From: marcjc at gmail.com (Marc Juul) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:22:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: two projects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65e44f2f0610162122l3a83f14eu982aac2675c380cb@mail.gmail.com> I would be very interested in anything you find on the subject of marine Internet. I've only sailed around Scandinavia / Germany / Latvia and generally trips < 1 week, and mostly pretty close to land, so my experiences might be of little use, but nevertheless: I was surprised at how far out gprs is sometimes possible, though the speed is very sucky. A lot of harbours have wifi now, even if it's not announced. Usually they're just completely default-setting open APs. Of the satellite type connections I've only used Iridium. Very slow, only really good for email or browsing with a textbased browser, but it is surprisingly stable and one of the nice things is that you don't have to fiddle with pointing an antenna at some specific place in the sky, just a general 'up' kind of direction works, even when moving the antenna around while connected (good when the waves get big). Another plus is that Iridium works anywhere in the world and also gives you voice. The speed is amazingly snail-like though, comparable to using your cell phone as a modem in non-gprs mode. > 2: very low power linux boxes on a boat. The idea is to have a > small, very low power network on the boat, hopefully directly > powered by 12VDC. > I cannot find a source for internet access from a boat that's > out on the ocean. Gotta be satellite connex, I think, unless > possible to tap a passing submarine. From Thomas.DiZoglio at riverbed.com Mon Oct 16 17:01:51 2006 From: Thomas.DiZoglio at riverbed.com (Thomas DiZoglio) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:01:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing Message-ID: <91047DAAD8D9124BA4A6D5B9B04DEF7F021F45DA@TYPHOON.nbttech.com> Hey, Here is a product. This company has some SBC's and they sell enclosures for there boxes. Not sure linux distro runs: http://www.ampro.com/index_interactive_GIF.asp This runs red hat, 2 ether ports,.... Might be more than u looking for: http://www.versalogic.com/Products/DS.asp?ProductID=164 Also, this link is a SBC - Linux Quick reference guide: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html It is a great site for finding what you are looking for. -------------------- t0md -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:52 PM To: SFLUG Mailing List Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss this tonight and via email in the next weeks. * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and servepath in particular. * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can come to the servepath facility and ask questions of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. * i can take one of my tower machines down there after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. * if any of you are interested in learning about a colo facility, come down with me for the install. * at some point i think it would be good to get a 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? I'm hoping one or more of you will help me * configure the box for the coloing * move the box to the colo site * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck the site could be neglected. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Tue Oct 17 08:28:17 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:28:17 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] All about co-location In-Reply-To: <20061017015449.41863.qmail@web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061017015449.41863.qmail@web35615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: thanks for the note, john. 1) servepath is donating space to sf-lug! 2) my (possibly adled) idea for SBCs is to get some small ones and fit a couple or three in a 2U box so's to have a little LAN at work at the colo site, all inside a single 2U box--low bandwidth, low power consumption, good neighbor.... On Oct 16, 2006, at 6:54 PM, John Strazzarino wrote: > I am only slightly familiar with co-location, so excuse my questions.? > I visited a place in South S.F. called RACE Technologies andin their > machine room I saw about 15 rows of rack mounted computers and a > number of rows of 'desktop' computers that you would find at home. It > is my understanding that: > ? > 1) you could 'purchase' space on one of the comptuers and the colo > facility would provide an IP address to you.? You then registed the IP > address with a domain and they you use FTP/SSH/Whatever to load your > software and off you go.? The colo facility would provide as high > speed connection/electrical power/air conditioning/fire protection and > you could optionally purchase backup/web site development/etc. > ? > OR > ? > You could provide your own computer and do the same.? > ? > 2) I am uncertain why?you need a SBC (single board computer) for this > co-lo task.? Wouldn't any old?1 GHZ?or better computer accomplish this > need?? And I don't believe it has to be a rack mount computer > (although they might not all any other type in their racks for space > needs).? Are we trying to put 2 computers in one box?? Am I missing > something large? > ? > Thanks,? John ? > ? > Post as is or edit this message to meet your needs. > > ? > > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com From jim at well.com Tue Oct 17 08:32:08 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:32:08 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: two projects In-Reply-To: <65e44f2f0610162122l3a83f14eu982aac2675c380cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <65e44f2f0610162122l3a83f14eu982aac2675c380cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: cool--you wanna come sailing and check it out? Ham radio and packet radio are possibilities--get a ham license and radio, then, even when out far, contact some kindly hammy and ask to patch into the telephone--make calls, get email.... i haven't got the ham radio or license, nor do i have the very low-power computers, but i've got intentions. thanks lots for the iridium info. On Oct 16, 2006, at 9:22 PM, Marc Juul wrote: > I would be very interested in anything you find on the subject of > marine Internet. > I've only sailed around Scandinavia / Germany / Latvia and generally > trips < 1 week, and mostly pretty close to land, so my experiences > might be of little use, but nevertheless: > > I was surprised at how far out gprs is sometimes possible, though the > speed is very sucky. A lot of harbours have wifi now, even if it's not > announced. Usually they're just completely default-setting open APs. > > Of the satellite type connections I've only used Iridium. Very slow, > only really good for email or browsing with a textbased browser, but > it is surprisingly stable and one of the nice things is that you don't > have to fiddle with pointing an antenna at some specific place in the > sky, just a general 'up' kind of direction works, even when moving the > antenna around while connected (good when the waves get big). Another > plus is that Iridium works anywhere in the world and also gives you > voice. The speed is amazingly snail-like though, comparable to using > your cell phone as a modem in non-gprs mode. > >> 2: very low power linux boxes on a boat. The idea is to have a >> small, very low power network on the boat, hopefully directly >> powered by 12VDC. >> I cannot find a source for internet access from a boat that's >> out on the ocean. Gotta be satellite connex, I think, unless >> possible to tap a passing submarine. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Tue Oct 17 09:01:01 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:01:01 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story Message-ID: per yesterday's phone calls and evening meeting: Servepath is donating colo space to SF-LUG. So far, Nathan, Jason, John S., and Jim seem to have volunteered time to configure a tower box for stand- alone web server and other use. Plan is to put the latest CentOS on the box and use Bastille to harden it. Possibly we'll later add VMware and maybe put Debian or Ubuntu on the box in VM mode. At a later time we might get a 2U box and trick it out one way or another. I just got the latest CentOS, so i might start installing it, asking questions as I go: QUESTION 1--what are good ideas for partitioning? * Not /root, /, and swap, right? * How about /root, /, /var/log, /var/www, swap, /usr/local, /opt, /stash (note swap in the middle) ??? * Other??? Servepath offers a time for all those in SF-LUG who are interested to go to the facility for a tour and a Q&A session with the staff technicians and engineers. Paul Lancaster from ServePath (and possibly one of the facility engineers) will be coming to the next SF-LUG meeting (Sunday, 11/5) to tell us about colo-ing in general and ServePath in particular and will stick around to answer any questions. From aldenm at gmail.com Tue Oct 17 09:30:41 2006 From: aldenm at gmail.com (Alden Meneses) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:30:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 11, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <221610dc0610170930k52f51f1by4b1a992ee735f73f@mail.gmail.com> Jim, I would like to volunteer and help with the configuration and maintenance of the server at the co-lo. It was nice meeting Nathan, JT, Mach at yesterday's meeting. Thanks, Alden On 10/17/06, sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com wrote: > > Send sf-lug mailing list submissions to > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World-Wide Web, visit > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > or, via e-mail, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sf-lug-owner at linuxmafia.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sf-lug digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. tonight's meeting -- coloing (jim stockford) > 2. Fwd: two projects (jim stockford) > 3. Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing (jim stockford) > 4. Re: Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing (Rick Moen) > 5. Re: Fwd: two projects (Marc Juul) > 6. Re: tonight's meeting -- coloing (Thomas DiZoglio) > 7. Re: All about co-location (jim stockford) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 15:52:06 -0700 > From: jim stockford > Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > To: SFLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <7bd646894f49b143a7f8074df7d30f6d at well.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > > sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in > their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss > this tonight and via email in the next weeks. > * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to > one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 > at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and > servepath in particular. > * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can > come to the servepath facility and ask questions > of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. > * i can take one of my tower machines down there > after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. > * if any of you are interested in learning about a > colo facility, come down with me for the install. > * at some point i think it would be good to get a > 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my > idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any > one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that > runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? > > I'm hoping one or more of you will help me > * configure the box for the coloing > * move the box to the colo site > * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the > only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck > the site could be neglected. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:15:34 -0700 > From: jim stockford > Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: two projects > To: SFLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Here are suggestions from Mike Weber at SpiderTools.com > (CyberMontana, Inc., provides lots of training online, via CD > and DVD, and hardcopy--this is where I buy most of my > distros). > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: mike > > Date: October 16, 2006 4:33:31 PM PDT > > To: jim stockford > > Subject: Re: two projects > > Reply-To: mogyweb at blackfoot.net > > > > Jim; > > > > Here are a few options that work well: > > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/motherboards/EPIA_M10000 > > > > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/motherboards/EPIA_5000 > > > > This case is not as good looking as some but I have found it works > > well. > > http://damnsmalllinux.org/store/itx_cases/MOREX_3677 > > > > I used Centos or DSL on these boards. > > > > Mike > > > > On Thu, 2006-10-12 at 11:22 -0700, jim stockford wrote: > >> 1: multiple units in a single two-unit rackable case (enclosure) > >> the idea is to have a mini network in a 2U case, all linux nodes. > >> one node would be the gateway with just about nothing on it > >> except sshd and squid (httpd proxy), two NICs, one for external, > >> the other for the internal LAN. > >> second node would have almost nothing on it except sshd and > >> httpd and maybe a rdbms with some scripts (I'm learning python, > >> so that's the top candidate). > >> third node would have a fairly full-featured bunch of stuff, > >> including RPMs and two RAID 1 drives. > >> For all units, 1GHz is sufficient; i love RAM, so 1GB RAM always > >> seems good, except in the case of 2GB; one or two hard drives; > >> maybe one or two CD or DVD units in the box. > >> Seems the internal LAN should include an internal switch that > >> presents an external jack for someone bringing a laptop for on-site > >> ssh access. > >> I suppose there might be an easy way for each internal unit > >> to present console connections via cable to bulkhead connex. I > >> also suppose that's not useful--better to bring the laptop and > >> have X on the laptop render the GUI stuff on the internal nodes. > >> > >> 2: very low power linux boxes on a boat. The idea is to have a > >> small, very low power network on the boat, hopefully directly > >> powered by 12VDC. > >> I cannot find a source for internet access from a boat that's > >> out on the ocean. Gotta be satellite connex, I think, unless > >> possible to tap a passing submarine. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: text/enriched > Size: 2568 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20061016/a8a77292/attachment-0001.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:19:22 -0700 > From: jim stockford > Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing > To: SFLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: <4dea9eb76843a3a80e8b77dbd158756c at well.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > (looks like we'll have to fix up tom's account--triggers > notice to lx and me re mailman) > Here's suggestions from tom: > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "Thomas DiZoglio" > > Date: October 16, 2006 5:01:51 PM PDT > > To: "jim stockford" , "SFLUG Mailing List" > > > > Subject: RE: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > > > > Hey, > > > > Here is a product. > > > > This company has some SBC's and they sell enclosures for there boxes. > > Not sure linux distro runs: > > > > http://www.ampro.com/index_interactive_GIF.asp > > > > This runs red hat, 2 ether ports,.... Might be more than u looking for: > > > > http://www.versalogic.com/Products/DS.asp?ProductID=164 > > > > > > Also, this link is a SBC - Linux Quick reference guide: > > > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html > > > > It is a great site for finding what you are looking for. > > -------------------- > > t0md > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com > > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford > > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:52 PM > > To: SFLUG Mailing List > > Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > > > > > > sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in > > their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss > > this tonight and via email in the next weeks. > > * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to > > one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 > > at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and > > servepath in particular. > > * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can > > come to the servepath facility and ask questions > > of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. > > * i can take one of my tower machines down there > > after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. > > * if any of you are interested in learning about a > > colo facility, come down with me for the install. > > * at some point i think it would be good to get a > > 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my > > idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any > > one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that > > runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? > > > > I'm hoping one or more of you will help me > > * configure the box for the coloing > > * move the box to the colo site > > * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the > > only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck > > the site could be neglected. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: text/enriched > Size: 2729 bytes > Desc: not available > Url : > http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20061016/08de09e9/attachment-0001.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:27:34 -0700 > From: Rick Moen > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: tonight's meeting -- coloing > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <20061017002734.GJ26620 at linuxmafia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > > > > > (looks like we'll have to fix up tom's account--triggers > > notice to lx and me re mailman) > > Here's suggestions from tom: > > FYI, all you do is go to the admin screen as the notice tells you to do > (http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/admindb/sf-lug). You'll notice that > there's a held message from thomas.dizoglio at riverbed.com . Pick the > radio button "Accept". Below that, check the checkbox for "Add > thomas.dizoglio at riverbed.com to one of these sender filters:" and select > _its_ radio buttion of "Accepts". Last, select button "Submit All Data" > at the bottom (or top) of the page. > > If you do that, it will not be necessary to manually forward the > message, as you did -- and the new sending address will get added to the > "OK to send from this address even though it's not subscribed" roster > (paraphrased). > > Thomas keeps encountering this problem because he occasionally starts > posting from yet another non-subscribed address. But you can pretty > easily fix the problem as it comes up, for each new posting address > someone uses. > > Anyhow, you should still do the above; the post is still being held for > your review. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 21:22:49 -0700 > From: "Marc Juul" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: two projects > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: > <65e44f2f0610162122l3a83f14eu982aac2675c380cb at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I would be very interested in anything you find on the subject of > marine Internet. > I've only sailed around Scandinavia / Germany / Latvia and generally > trips < 1 week, and mostly pretty close to land, so my experiences > might be of little use, but nevertheless: > > I was surprised at how far out gprs is sometimes possible, though the > speed is very sucky. A lot of harbours have wifi now, even if it's not > announced. Usually they're just completely default-setting open APs. > > Of the satellite type connections I've only used Iridium. Very slow, > only really good for email or browsing with a textbased browser, but > it is surprisingly stable and one of the nice things is that you don't > have to fiddle with pointing an antenna at some specific place in the > sky, just a general 'up' kind of direction works, even when moving the > antenna around while connected (good when the waves get big). Another > plus is that Iridium works anywhere in the world and also gives you > voice. The speed is amazingly snail-like though, comparable to using > your cell phone as a modem in non-gprs mode. > > > 2: very low power linux boxes on a boat. The idea is to have a > > small, very low power network on the boat, hopefully directly > > powered by 12VDC. > > I cannot find a source for internet access from a boat that's > > out on the ocean. Gotta be satellite connex, I think, unless > > possible to tap a passing submarine. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:01:51 -0700 > From: "Thomas DiZoglio" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > To: "jim stockford" , "SFLUG Mailing List" > > Message-ID: > <91047DAAD8D9124BA4A6D5B9B04DEF7F021F45DA at TYPHOON.nbttech.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hey, > > Here is a product. > > This company has some SBC's and they sell enclosures for there boxes. > Not sure linux distro runs: > > http://www.ampro.com/index_interactive_GIF.asp > > This runs red hat, 2 ether ports,.... Might be more than u looking for: > > http://www.versalogic.com/Products/DS.asp?ProductID=164 > > > Also, this link is a SBC - Linux Quick reference guide: > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT2614444132.html > > It is a great site for finding what you are looking for. > -------------------- > t0md > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2006 3:52 PM > To: SFLUG Mailing List > Subject: [sf-lug] tonight's meeting -- coloing > > > sf-lug has an opportunity to colo with servepath in > their full-blown colo facility. I hope we can discuss > this tonight and via email in the next weeks. > * Paul Lancaster of servepath is willing to come to > one of our meetings (e.g. this coming Sunday11/5 > at 11 AM) to tell us about colo-ing in general and > servepath in particular. > * Paul suggests those of us who are interested can > come to the servepath facility and ask questions > of the staff--we should set a specific date/time. > * i can take one of my tower machines down there > after i config it properly as a stand-alone web server. > * if any of you are interested in learning about a > colo facility, come down with me for the install. > * at some point i think it would be good to get a > 2U box and trick it out for the sf-lug web site--my > idea is multiple hosts inside the single box: any > one know of a >1GHz linux-capable SBC that > runs on 12VDC and sucks minimal power? > > I'm hoping one or more of you will help me > * configure the box for the coloing > * move the box to the colo site > * maybe help me with the web site itself--i'm the > only one managing it, and if i get hit by a beer truck > the site could be neglected. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 08:28:17 -0700 > From: jim stockford > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] All about co-location > To: John Strazzarino > Cc: SFLUG Mailing List > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > thanks for the note, john. > 1) servepath is donating space to sf-lug! > 2) my (possibly adled) idea for SBCs is to get > some small ones and fit a couple or three in a > 2U box so's to have a little LAN at work at the > colo site, all inside a single 2U box--low > bandwidth, low power consumption, good > neighbor.... > > > > > On Oct 16, 2006, at 6:54 PM, John Strazzarino wrote: > > > I am only slightly familiar with co-location, so excuse my questions.? > > I visited a place in South S.F. called RACE Technologies andin their > > machine room I saw about 15 rows of rack mounted computers and a > > number of rows of 'desktop' computers that you would find at home. It > > is my understanding that: > > ? > > 1) you could 'purchase' space on one of the comptuers and the colo > > facility would provide an IP address to you.? You then registed the IP > > address with a domain and they you use FTP/SSH/Whatever to load your > > software and off you go.? The colo facility would provide as high > > speed connection/electrical power/air conditioning/fire protection and > > you could optionally purchase backup/web site development/etc. > > ? > > OR > > ? > > You could provide your own computer and do the same.? > > ? > > 2) I am uncertain why?you need a SBC (single board computer) for this > > co-lo task.? Wouldn't any old?1 GHZ?or better computer accomplish this > > need?? And I don't believe it has to be a rack mount computer > > (although they might not all any other type in their racks for space > > needs).? Are we trying to put 2 computers in one box?? Am I missing > > something large? > > ? > > Thanks,? John ? > > ? > > Post as is or edit this message to meet your needs. > > > > ? > > > > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > End of sf-lug Digest, Vol 11, Issue 15 > ************************************** > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nathank at evilmonkeys.com Tue Oct 17 10:12:18 2006 From: nathank at evilmonkeys.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:12:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> jim stockford wrote: > I just got the latest CentOS, so i might start installing > it, asking questions as I go: > QUESTION 1--what are good ideas for partitioning? > * Not /root, /, and swap, right? > * How about /root, /, /var/log, /var/www, swap, /usr/local, > /opt, /stash (note swap in the middle) ??? > * Other??? > /boot and / seem to work fine, breaking it up more just causes more trouble than its worth. As for where to place a swap, never really had any problems adding it anywhere. From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 17 10:49:21 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:49:21 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: <20061017174921.GL26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Nathan (nathank at evilmonkeys.com): > /boot and / seem to work fine, breaking it up more just causes more > trouble than its worth. Oddly, the boot / root division (into separate filesystems) is the one I'd do away with, as finally mostly obsolete. > As for where to place a swap, never really had any problems adding it > anywhere. The better question is where you can put it for greater advantage, e.g., to minimise average seek time. Anyway: http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/NixPartitioning From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 17 10:56:57 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 10:56:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <20061017174921.GL26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> <20061017174921.GL26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061017175657.GM26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com): > Anyway: > http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/NixPartitioning I think my prototype replacement server's layout is something like this: Filesystem Size Mounted on FStype Options Dump Pass /dev/sda1 200M /boot ext2 nodev,nosuid,noexec 0 2 /dev/sda6 500M [swap] [swap] sw,pri=1 0 0 /dev/sda8 6000M /var ext2 noatime,nodev,nosuid 0 2 /dev/sda9 1000M / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 /dev/sda10 1000M [recovery] ext3 rw,noauto 0 2 /dev/sda11 5000M /usr ext2 nodev,ro 0 2 [rest of sda unallocated, for now] /dev/md0 2000M /var/www ext3 nodev,nosuid 0 2 /dev/md1 1500M /var/lib ext3 nodev 0 2 /dev/md2 3000M /var/spool ext3 noatime,nodev,nosuid 0 2 /dev/md3 500M [swap] [swap] sw,pri=2 0 0 /dev/md4 6000M /home ext3 nodev,nosuid 0 2 /dev/md5 5000M /usr/local ext3 defaults 0 2 [The "md" setup comprise RAID1 pairs from 18GB drives /dev/sda and /dev/sdb.] /dev/fd0 /media/floppy auto rw,user,noauto 0 0 /dev/hda /media/cdrom iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0 tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs noauto 0 0 From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 17 11:00:03 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 11:00:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <20061017175657.GM26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> <20061017174921.GL26620@linuxmafia.com> <20061017175657.GM26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061017180003.GN26620@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > I think my prototype replacement server's layout is something > like this: > > Filesystem Size Mounted on FStype Options Dump Pass > /dev/sda1 200M /boot ext2 nodev,nosuid,noexec 0 2 > /dev/sda6 500M [swap] [swap] sw,pri=1 0 0 > /dev/sda8 6000M /var ext2 noatime,nodev,nosuid 0 2 > /dev/sda9 1000M / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1 > /dev/sda10 1000M [recovery] ext3 rw,noauto 0 2 > /dev/sda11 5000M /usr ext2 nodev,ro 0 2 > [rest of sda unallocated, for now] > > /dev/md0 2000M /var/www ext3 nodev,nosuid 0 2 > /dev/md1 1500M /var/lib ext3 nodev 0 2 > /dev/md2 3000M /var/spool ext3 noatime,nodev,nosuid 0 2 > /dev/md3 500M [swap] [swap] sw,pri=2 0 0 > /dev/md4 6000M /home ext3 nodev,nosuid 0 2 > /dev/md5 5000M /usr/local ext3 defaults 0 2 > [The "md" setup comprise RAID1 pairs from 18GB drives /dev/sda and /dev/sdb.] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > /dev/fd0 /media/floppy auto rw,user,noauto 0 0 > /dev/hda /media/cdrom iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0 > > tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0 > tmpfs /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0 > proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 > devpts /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0 > sysfs /sys sysfs noauto 0 0 Make that /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc. Sorry 'bout. From jim at well.com Tue Oct 17 14:15:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 14:15:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: i got a job recently on a box where the hard drive went down--/boot, /, swap. It was a production box, and the owner was dying to get his scripts and data back. it would have been a lot easier if he'd had more partitions--then whichever went bad, the others would be okay (except in the case of total failure, which is pretty rare, yes?). and thus i plead the case for more, smaller partitions rather than fewer bigger parts. jim PS: i've heard the claim of making multiple swap parts for performance. I'm betting that no one defends that. On Oct 17, 2006, at 10:12 AM, Nathan wrote: > jim stockford wrote: >> I just got the latest CentOS, so i might start installing >> it, asking questions as I go: >> QUESTION 1--what are good ideas for partitioning? >> * Not /root, /, and swap, right? >> * How about /root, /, /var/log, /var/www, swap, /usr/local, >> /opt, /stash (note swap in the middle) ??? >> * Other??? >> > > /boot and / seem to work fine, breaking it up more just causes more > trouble than its worth. As for where to place a swap, never really had > any problems adding it anywhere. > From asheesh at asheesh.org Tue Oct 17 16:04:50 2006 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, jim stockford wrote: > i got a job recently on a box where the hard drive > went down--/boot, /, swap. > It was a production box, and the owner was dying > to get his scripts and data back. it would have been > a lot easier if he'd had more partitions--then whichever > went bad, the others would be okay (except in the > case of total failure, which is pretty rare, yes?). I'll bite: Multiple partitions is no substitute for redundancy. Did it fail due to disk failure that RAID would have ameliorated? Or user error that backups would have saved? Also, in my (limited personal) experience, sometimes disks go bad sectors at a time, and sometimes they just stop working; I wouldn't call total failure "pretty rare". > PS: i've heard the claim of making multiple swap parts > for performance. I'm betting that no one defends that. This is a great idea if you have two separate disks on which to tell the kernel to swap. Sorry I can't be around for any more SF-LUG meetings, having moved back to Baltimore to finish school. But I did recently pick and order parts for a rack-mounted server for $1800, and I might as well tell you guys about it in case you want to cost-share among yourselves on a more exiting (albeit not cheap!) machine: $220 - Core 2 Duo retail CPU with stock cooler $249 - Supermicro PDSMI+ motherboard $680 - 4 GiB of RAM (Crucial 533 Mhz DDR2 ECC unbuffered) $400 - 4x 400 GB Seagate SATA 7200.9 drives (on sale at outpost.com) $264 - Supermicro SE-813MT-300C 1U case $48 - AOC-IPMI20-E management card so we can telnet into the BIOS remotely! The plan is to RAID-5 the disks for /var and /home and put / into a RAID 1 setup. The Core 2 duo is really exciting because it's very energy efficient but also very powerful. The specs are kind of high, but the idea is since none of us live near the colo center, we don't want to have ot go back later and say, If only we had more {disk|RAM|CPU}. I'm putting this thing together as a personal project and sharing the cost with a few other people so it's worthwhile, and it reminded me of what you guys were talking about here. Of course, we're running Debian on it. (-: -- Asheesh. -- Any reproduction or redistribution of the Software not in accordance with the License Agreement is expressly prohibited by law, and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties. From jim at well.com Tue Oct 17 16:35:11 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:35:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: Asheesh! outstanding! you're right--no redundancy. I like RAID 1 and a backup system. On my little LAN I've got NFS shares that I occasionally copy to (gotta automate that, but sometimes it hurts when i think). they had nothing at all. going bad sectors is the rule, I think, hence inode and superblock redundancy. I can't tell what happened in this case--i ended up putting the corner of a heat sink on the 'y' key when I saw what fsck was gonna do to my finger (got a snack and came back to a big "yyyyyyyy..." command, hit enter, command not found, all totally sucked--750 empty files with inode numbers in their names, under lost+found the same, with occasional directories, a mess). how to deal with new bad sectors? <-------- "total failure" == "disk don't work no more" a new bad sector might threaten the occasional file but not the entire drive--some drives work and work, with increasing numbers of bad sectors, just not MBR or related. right? (not right?) thanks lots for the description of your colo box. For me, one of the exciting things about Paul's colo offer at ServePath is that we get to go to the site to dick with the box and check out the scene as a bonus. But that's me. I got a crick in my neck right after reading where you wrote about Debian. Nathan is pitching Debian, mainly by dismissing Red Hat, but still, Nathan's a hot item and i gotta listen. We settled on CentOS (built with Red Hat code), but with future ambitions somehow to employ either Debian or Ubuntu. On Oct 17, 2006, at 4:04 PM, Asheesh Laroia wrote: > On Tue, 17 Oct 2006, jim stockford wrote: > >> i got a job recently on a box where the hard drive >> went down--/boot, /, swap. >> It was a production box, and the owner was dying >> to get his scripts and data back. it would have been >> a lot easier if he'd had more partitions--then whichever >> went bad, the others would be okay (except in the >> case of total failure, which is pretty rare, yes?). > > I'll bite: > > Multiple partitions is no substitute for redundancy. Did it fail due > to > disk failure that RAID would have ameliorated? Or user error that > backups > would have saved? > > Also, in my (limited personal) experience, sometimes disks go bad > sectors > at a time, and sometimes they just stop working; I wouldn't call total > failure "pretty rare". > >> PS: i've heard the claim of making multiple swap parts >> for performance. I'm betting that no one defends that. > > This is a great idea if you have two separate disks on which to tell > the > kernel to swap. > > Sorry I can't be around for any more SF-LUG meetings, having moved > back to > Baltimore to finish school. But I did recently pick and order parts > for a > rack-mounted server for $1800, and I might as well tell you guys about > it > in case you want to cost-share among yourselves on a more exiting > (albeit > not cheap!) machine: > > $220 - Core 2 Duo retail CPU with stock cooler > $249 - Supermicro PDSMI+ motherboard > $680 - 4 GiB of RAM (Crucial 533 Mhz DDR2 ECC unbuffered) > $400 - 4x 400 GB Seagate SATA 7200.9 drives (on sale at outpost.com) > $264 - Supermicro SE-813MT-300C 1U case > $48 - AOC-IPMI20-E management card so we can telnet into the BIOS > remotely! > > The plan is to RAID-5 the disks for /var and /home and put / into a > RAID 1 > setup. The Core 2 duo is really exciting because it's very energy > efficient but also very powerful. The specs are kind of high, but the > idea is since none of us live near the colo center, we don't want to > have > ot go back later and say, If only we had more {disk|RAM|CPU}. > > I'm putting this thing together as a personal project and sharing the > cost > with a few other people so it's worthwhile, and it reminded me of what > you > guys were talking about here. > > Of course, we're running Debian on it. (-: > > -- Asheesh. > > -- > Any reproduction or redistribution of the Software not in accordance > with the > License Agreement is expressly prohibited by law, and may result in > severe > civil and criminal penalties. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Oct 17 16:53:27 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:53:27 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: <20061017235327.GQ26620@linuxmafia.com> Jim Stockford asked the classic partitioning question: > QUESTION 1--what are good ideas for partitioning? > * Not /root, /, and swap, right? > * How about /root, /, /var/log, /var/www, swap, /usr/local, > /opt, /stash (note swap in the middle) ??? > * Other??? (Swap in the middle is quite astute. Less seek time, on average.) People new to the Unixes typically want to punt and keep everything simple: That's actually an excellent place to start! Like (assuming IDE): /dev/hda1 swap size = 2x RAM, or whatever /dev/hda2 / the rest That'll serve you well until you're more seasoned, and start to have opinions -- along with being able to easily move around data if you've screwed up and made a partition too small.[1] It serves less well on multiuser boxes. > i got a job recently on a box where the hard drive > went down--/boot, /, swap. > It was a production box, and the owner was dying > to get his scripts and data back. it would have been > a lot easier if he'd had more partitions--then whichever > went bad, the others would be okay (except in the > case of total failure, which is pretty rare, yes?). It depends on the failure mode. If it was HD hardware failure, then probably you have to revert to backup. If it was misbehaved software causing filesystem damage, then some more-detailed partitioning might have either saved him, or at least made recovery easier, depending. As Asheesh points out, defensive partitioning should not be confused with redundancy (e.g., a RAID1 pair) or backup.[2] > and thus i plead the case for more, smaller partitions > rather than fewer bigger parts. The rest of this message is strictly for the curious. Let's consider some of the problems people solve using separare filesystems. Key concepts: shareable vs. non-shareable contents, static vs. variable contents, mount options, FHS = Filesystem Hierarchy Standard. Problem: Root filesystem once hit 100%, which then was a real bear to recover from. Solution: Separate non-root filesystems for portions of the tree whose contents are variable as opposed to static: /var, /home, /usr/local, /tmp, /opt (which might be a symlink to /usr/local/opt). Problem: Risk of filesystem corruption, and need to recover from same. Solution: Same as above, but also put /usr (which tends to be static) on its own filesystem. Recovery tools will be on root filesystem in /bin, /usr/bin or /sbin with libs in /lib. Problem: Need to keep portions of the tree with network-shareable files (those usefully stored on one host and used on others) separate from those that are are non-shareable. This applies mostly to NFS-based or similar networks. Solution: /usr, /opt, /var/mail, and /var/spool/news (if present) should be away from the root filesystem, which is not shareable. Problem: Fumblefingered sysadmin can accidentally blow away big file collections with root account usage. Solution: Good backups -- but also keeping some portions of the tree with static content normally mounted read-only, to make mishaps less likely. Mostly, this means /usr, but could also be used on /boot if it's separate. Problem: One-size-fits-all journaled filesystem (e.g., ext3) yields suboptimal performance in directories with throwaway contents, and adds unjustifiable complexity to static filesystems that will be normally mounted read-only anyway. Solution: Make /tmp and /usr be of type ext2 (faster, less complex), rather than ext3. Also, you don't need the "atime" time stamp in /var, and so can save overhead by not writing it. Problem: In the event of partial security compromise, it couldn't hurt to make it more difficult for automated attack scripts to do their work. Solution: Remove from mount options the support for types of files that have no legitimately existence in various places: device files in everywhere but /dev; SUID files in /boot, /var (except maybe /var/lib), /tmp, and /home; executable files in /boot, and so on. (Be cautious and pay attention: Once, I removed the exec flag from /tmp, and it took a while to realise that packages' preinst and postinst scripts need to be able to run, there.) More of this is covered in: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/NixPartitioning Both are well worth reading. [1] "Copying Directory Trees" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Admin/ [2] "Backup Fallacies / Pitfalls" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Admin/ From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 08:18:32 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:18:32 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <20061017235327.GQ26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> <20061017235327.GQ26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <6c76283220927c1f5409d7e23321993a@well.com> For those with similarly vague understanding as I, per Rick's previous email re partitioning... > More of this is covered in: > http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ <---------------------------------! > http://twiki.iwethey.org/Main/NixPartitioning > > Both are well worth reading. Yes, both are well, well worth reading. For example, I was unclear about /usr/share; i am now more clear.... /usr/share : Architecture-independent data Purpose The /usr/share hierarchy is for all read-only architecture independent data files. [30] This hierarchy is intended to be shareable among all architecture platforms of a given OS; thus, for example, a site with i386, Alpha, and PPC platforms might maintain a single /usr/share directory that is centrally-mounted. Note, however, that /usr/share is generally not intended to be shared by different OSes or by different releases of the same OS. Any program or package which contains or requires data that doesn't need to be modified should store that data in /usr/share (or /usr/local/share, if installed locally). It is recommended that a subdirectory be used in /usr/share for this purpose. Game data stored in /usr/share/games must be purely static data. Any modifiable files, such as score files, game play logs, and so forth, should be placed in /var/games. ..."architecture" means "THE CPU", as in 64 bit PPC or S390 or Intel or AMD, or 32 bit Intel or AMD (or 31 bit S390), mentioned elsewhere. the directories scattered about with the name "lib" have to do with binary libraries, but the "lib" director(y, ies) under /var, as an example, store tracking or variable data pertaining to the binary libraries that themselves are stored in /lib or in /usr/lib (or /usr/local/lib or...); the games directories scattered about relate to games, but those under /usr/share/ are different from those under /var/ or those elsewhere, the upper?level directories indicate the nature of the files, the lower- level directories the purpose. well, i'm venturing further afield, in hopes someone will correct me. "31 bit S390"? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 08:28:22 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 08:28:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management Message-ID: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for the box should use the package manager exclusively. yes? Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management wrt system and box-wide software ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits ...of package management--the package management ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the ...package management for that software). But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something in, for example chkrootkit. THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, copying...)? Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a production environment)? From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 09:54:52 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:54:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? _Hell_ yes. ;-> > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. Of course, most good distros have chkrootkit (and rkhunter) packaged, and you can force-download/install the latest -- assuming you think you can trust your system enough to do that.[1] (OTOH, if you use either of those packages for anything other than a belt-and-suspenders crosscheck, you've already lost.) > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? Correct. The packaging system is not supposed to ever touch that tree, and it's for any software you feel a need to build/install outside your distro package regime -- aka "locally installed software". [1] How to check the security of a system whose software you don't trust is a non-trivial problem. From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 11:41:33 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 11:41:33 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] the latest on the servepath colo story In-Reply-To: <6c76283220927c1f5409d7e23321993a@well.com> References: <45350EF2.3040705@evilmonkeys.com> <20061017235327.GQ26620@linuxmafia.com> <6c76283220927c1f5409d7e23321993a@well.com> Message-ID: <20061018184133.GC7858@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > This hierarchy is intended to be shareable among all architecture > platforms of a given OS; thus, for example, a site with i386, Alpha, > and PPC platforms might maintain a single /usr/share directory that is > centrally-mounted. Sure. Why have redundantly stored /usr/share/man (manpages) on all the machines in a server farm, if you can just NFS-mount it? > the directories scattered about with the name "lib" have to do with > binary libraries, but the "lib" director(y, ies) under /var, as an > example, store tracking or variable data pertaining to the binary > libraries that themselves are stored in /lib or in /usr/lib (or > /usr/local/lib or...); If this seems a little haphazard, it helps to understand that the FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) is an ongoing attempt to coax various Unixes into converging on a somewhat more rational file-tree structure, after three decades of chaos, e.g., having binaries in /etc. (GNU/Linux systems themselves are the fruit, in part, of a committee effort with some of the same aims, called POSIX.) Many of the places where FHS seems vague or weasel-worded are written that way in order to persuade some of those *ix user communities without offending them. E.g., you can't just tell them "stop creating a separate X11 sub-hierarchy in /usr/X11R6; that's dumb." Instead, you use words like "optional" and "deprecated". > the games directories scattered about relate to games, but those under > /usr/share/ are different from those under /var/ or those elsewhere, > the upper?level directories indicate the nature of the files, the > lower- level directories the purpose. Sounds right. From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 13:25:16 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless Message-ID: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is an interesting event: http://nten.org/sfwireless/ . Look at the "Ideas and Inspiration" section. The first presentation is interesting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 13:58:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:58:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > [1] How to check the security of a system whose software you don't > trust > is a non-trivial problem. > well, there's downloading the source code, reading every line (and understanding each), and compiling and installing. Seems doable for chkrootkit and the like but not dependable in the main per human fatigue either wrt larger programs or many other such. there's md5sum and trusting the maker. there's trusting the distro. A NOC guy taught me "trust is efficient". Your tho'ts? From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 14:04:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:04:24 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: uh oh. I count 10 cents so far. What's happened to the mail? OTOH, I like your cents, though. I've learned to walk this way--I'm ready to bet that most others have, too. On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:18 AM, Andy Grimm wrote: > Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting > place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in > the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's > not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things > in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is > for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using > RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place > completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's > the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. > > Just my two cents. > > --Andy > > On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: >> >> my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM >> or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for >> the box should use the package manager exclusively. >> yes? >> >> Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management >> wrt system and box-wide software >> ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits >> ...of package management--the package management >> ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect >> ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the >> ...package management for that software). >> >> But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something >> in, for example chkrootkit. >> >> THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no >> man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- >> package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, >> copying...)? >> Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with >> production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a >> production environment)? >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From pavell at genesyslab.com Wed Oct 18 14:03:42 2006 From: pavell at genesyslab.com (Pavel Livchits) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:03:42 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug Digest, Vol 11, Issue 18 Message-ID: <1B7B586FE278264FB992BFFE581BEE7E01F7250A@SAURON.us.int.genesyslab.com> >>> how to deal with new bad sectors? <-------- Jim, before launching the machine into the production run smartmontools on HDDs you have. The smartmon tools "talk" directly to HDD's BIOS and can give much more information on HDD's health state. They even can predict failure in advance. Virtually any linux distro has it installed, if not dig here: http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net See also article: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6983 --- Pavel From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 14:16:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:16:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless In-Reply-To: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2f88207688af0f2ab00fc1d35a39c240@well.com> On Oct 18, 2006, at 1:25 PM, vincent polite wrote: > This is an interesting event: http://nten.org/sfwireless/ . Look at > the "Ideas and Inspiration" section. The first presentation is > interesting. a propos of which... ------------------- Alameda Wireless mailing list - alameda at alamedawireless.org http://alamedawireless.org/mailman/listinfo/alameda IRC CHAT: irc://alamedawireless.org/alamedawireless Time: 7:30 PM Date: Thursday, October 19, 2006 Place: La Val's Pizza Parlor (better known as AW54) Island Shopping Center Bay Farm Island intersection: Island Dr. and McCartney Rd. We have been so busy the last several weeks, we have not had time to prepare a formal announcement, but Greg has successfully placed his AW55 node on the air, and we will provide you more details at this Thursday's meeting. AW55 now gives us essentially coverage almost anywhere on both islands (main island and Bay Farm). We are now in a position to make links that we were never able to do before, and we would like to begin discussing how we can start integrating Greg new node AW55 into a larger AW network. Would love to have you as part of that discussion ------------------- From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 14:16:13 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:16:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061018211612.GS26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > uh oh. I count 10 cents so far. What's happened to the mail? Glitch in the mail subsystem that happens once in a blue moon, causing a loop. I've broken the cycle; removing the underlying glitch will probably have to wait until I migrate this system to replacement hardware. It may well be just an indirect artifact of RAM shortage. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 14:33:47 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:33:47 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> Message-ID: <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > >[1] How to check the security of a system whose software you don't > >trust is a non-trivial problem. > > well, there's downloading the source code, reading every line (and > understanding each), and compiling and installing. Seems doable for > chkrootkit and the like.... ...which might suffice if you had any reason to think that the program, once run, will do what you think it should, even if the machine is compromised. Unfortunately, _if_ the machine is compromised, you can't. See the problem? > there's md5sum and trusting the maker. You cannot trust the output of md5sum if it's running on a compromised system. The system controls what md5sum sees, what it does, and what it outputs. > there's trusting the distro. Unwise if the reason you're seeking to run chkrootkit is because you think your system might be compromised. (If you mean "trust the distro's package integrity on its update servers", that's a good start, but that still leaves not being able to trust the _system_ on which the tool runs.) > A NOC guy taught me "trust is efficient". Your tho'ts? I'm not sure what the guy meant in context -- but I _do_ know that it seems uncommonly silly to run a security-checking tool on a suspect (i.e., possibly root-compromised) system and put any faith at all in its output. E.g., I have to laugh whenever I hear someone say "Well, I suspected that my system was root-compromised, but 'rpm -qa' came up clean." (If one suspects root compromise, why then are the contents of /var/lib/rpm/* suddenly trustworthy, not to mention /usr/bin/rpm, the console support libs, etc.?) From jasonstone at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 14:36:12 2006 From: jasonstone at gmail.com (jason stone) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:36:12 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless In-Reply-To: <2f88207688af0f2ab00fc1d35a39c240@well.com> References: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2f88207688af0f2ab00fc1d35a39c240@well.com> Message-ID: <45369E4C.80003@gmail.com> Quite a bit of wireless going on-- thats great! Does anyone know what happened to SFLAN? It looks as if most nodes are inactive (especially after the San Bruno link went dead). thnx -jasonstone From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 14:57:58 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 14:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless In-Reply-To: <45369E4C.80003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061018215758.49073.qmail@web82807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What I thought was really interesting is that they are having a demonstration of the Nokia 770. The one that has Linux embedded. jason stone wrote: Quite a bit of wireless going on-- thats great! Does anyone know what happened to SFLAN? It looks as if most nodes are inactive (especially after the San Bruno link went dead). thnx -jasonstone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 15:05:20 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:05:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> best sense i can make of this is you need a second, trusted machine on which to run something that can effectively peek into a suspected machine. 'course there's the chicken-egg business-- can you really trust your trusted machine, even a gentoo-like approach needs a compiler, can you trust that...? How to get a trusted machine in the first place (harks of Asheesh's warnings)? On Oct 18, 2006, at 2:33 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): >> On Oct 18, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Rick Moen wrote: >>> [1] How to check the security of a system whose software you don't >>> trust is a non-trivial problem. >> >> well, there's downloading the source code, reading every line (and >> understanding each), and compiling and installing. Seems doable for >> chkrootkit and the like.... > > ...which might suffice if you had any reason to think that the program, > once run, will do what you think it should, even if the machine is > compromised. Unfortunately, _if_ the machine is compromised, you > can't. > > See the problem? > >> there's md5sum and trusting the maker. > > You cannot trust the output of md5sum if it's running on a compromised > system. The system controls what md5sum sees, what it does, and what > it > outputs. > >> there's trusting the distro. > > Unwise if the reason you're seeking to run chkrootkit is because you > think your system might be compromised. (If you mean "trust the > distro's package integrity on its update servers", that's a good start, > but that still leaves not being able to trust the _system_ on which the > tool runs.) > >> A NOC guy taught me "trust is efficient". Your tho'ts? > > I'm not sure what the guy meant in context -- but I _do_ know that it > seems uncommonly silly to run a security-checking tool on a suspect > (i.e., possibly root-compromised) system and put any faith at all in > its > output. > > E.g., I have to laugh whenever I hear someone say "Well, I suspected > that my system was root-compromised, but 'rpm -qa' came up clean." > (If one suspects root compromise, why then are the contents of > /var/lib/rpm/* suddenly trustworthy, not to mention /usr/bin/rpm, > the console support libs, etc.?) > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:18:31 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 09:18:31 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0610180918na71eef8tc4c893e450532bb4@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm new to the list, but thought this would be an interesting place to weigh in. In my sys admin experience, putting software in the proper package format is always the best thing, but when that's not achievable, there are only two potential places to install things in the standard hierarchy: /opt and /usr/local. Typically, /opt is for vendor software (from HP, EMC, etc.), and many vendors are using RPM packaging now, so on a Red Hat or SuSE server, the only place completely free of packaged software is /usr/local. Therefore, it's the most appropriate place to install non-packaged software. Just my two cents. --Andy On 10/18/06, jim stockford wrote: > > my take on a package-managed OS (Red Hat's RPM > or Debian's APT) is that as much as possible the SA for > the box should use the package manager exclusively. > yes? > > Ideally this would obviate the good old tar management > wrt system and box-wide software > ...(to use tar to install software is to sidestep the benefits > ...of package management--the package management > ...database is not updated, and there's the fat-finger-effect > ...of tar-ing in something that is managed, breaking the > ...package management for that software). > > But there may be a legitimate need for tar-ing something > in, for example chkrootkit. > > THE QUESTION: is the /usr/local/ space _properly_ a no > man's land for tar-ing and other means of adding non- > package-managed software (e.g. writing and compiling, > copying...)? > Seems like to me, but what's your experience (with > production boxes per SF-LUG colo-ing a box in a > production environment)? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 15:46:59 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:46:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> Message-ID: <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > best sense i can make of this is you need a second, trusted machine on > which to run something that can effectively peek into a suspected > machine. Well, that's an excellent thought, and your instincts are definitely right. This is one reason why I always strongly advise people to occasionally network-scan their LANs from a remote machine using the "nmap" utility. Since many people don't have a trustworthy machine available for this purpose, something like a Knoppix live CD is absolutely ideal, in overcoming that disadvantage. I.e., just borrow a workstation, boot it into Knoppix for just long enough to conduct security probing of the other machine(s) using nmap, and then reboot to the regular OS and take out your Knoppix disk. However, it should be stressed that this studies probed machines' network behaviour _only_. It doesn't "peek into" the machines in any broader sense.[0] > 'course there's the chicken-egg business-- can you really trust your > trusted machine, even a gentoo-like approach needs a compiler, can you > trust that...? Eh, you might get a chuckle out of my remarks and hyperlink near the end of http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=virus#virus But then again, maybe you just can't trust anyone [link]. The link goes to Ken Thompson's classic and mind-bending paper, "Reflections on Trusting Trust", which you should hasten to read if you haven't already. It's a hoot. (Ken Thompson is one of the original authors of Unix at Bell Labs. Whether he _actually_ pulled off the exploit described is not known, and is ultimately beside the point.) > How to get a trusted machine in the first place (harks of Asheesh's > warnings)? Again, you're thinking along the exact right lines. A partial solution would be -- once again -- Knoppix and other live CDs.[1] Alternatively, you could have a known-good installation of your favourite Linux or other *ix OS on a hard drive normally left on a shelf. In the event of being suspicious about security compromise, you would shut down your machine, add the standby HD as the temporary boot drive, and boot _it_. Either way, you can then boot a Linux installation you have reason to believe is _not_ compromised, which then can examine your runtime filesystems directly (without running any code on them). The one thing that remedy cannot accomplish is looking into the runtime _state_ (condition, activity) of the suspect installed OS. The act of shutting it down (and rebooting to trusted media) inherently terminates unauthorised processes along with authorised ones. You are left only with finding the effect of those intruder-controlled processes, if any, on the system files. Getting reliable _real-time_ information from within a system that might be compromised is a different, and difficult, problem. One approach is to run a "file-based intrusion-detection system" (IDS). Some coverage about those things is here: http://linuxgazette.net/issue98/moen.html Some folks alternatively (or in addition) configure syslogd (the system logging daemon) to report across a serial cable or LAN connection to a dedicated logging host, which then itself must of course be carefully protected against compromise. [0] However, nmapping your LAN _does_ accomplish something almost as useful: It shows your for certain what your machine(s) is/are doing over their network interfaces, which is generally good enough because intruders break into machines to _do_ things with them, not just for the exercise. [1] You _do_ check the md5sum and the gpg signature on that mdsum, when you download ISOs to burn, right? From mark at sobell.com Wed Oct 18 15:48:16 2006 From: mark at sobell.com (Mark G Sobell) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:48:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless In-Reply-To: <45369E4C.80003@gmail.com> References: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2f88207688af0f2ab00fc1d35a39c240@well.com> <45369E4C.80003@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200610181548.16829.mark@sobell.com> I have a node (sflan47). It has been down most of the year and I cannot get a peep out of anyone at sflan... Mark On Wednesday 18 October 2006 2:36 pm, jason stone wrote: > Does anyone know what happened to SFLAN? It looks as if most nodes are > inactive (especially after the San Bruno link went dead). > > thnx > > -jasonstone > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -- Mark mark at sobell.com From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 17:25:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 17:25:59 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <20061018183757.40783.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061018183757.40783.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9c9a641c554c84a38f57e816352bc20b@well.com> God bless you, John! On Oct 18, 2006, at 11:37 AM, John Strazzarino wrote: > Jim, > ? > I found a used 4U case with 450W power supply for $50 from a friend at > a local computer shop.? Would that work for the colo project?? > ? > John I donno: works for me, but Paul's initial suggestion was a 1U and I felt a bit like I was sniggling when I upped the spec to 2U. I'll ask him. From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 18:05:20 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:05:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: Remark at bottom is deliberately provocative. Note, i've got the most recent knoppix and mepis CDs. On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Since many people don't have a trustworthy machine available for this > purpose, something like a Knoppix live CD is absolutely ideal, in > overcoming that disadvantage. I.e., just borrow a workstation, boot it > into Knoppix for just long enough to conduct security probing of the > other machine(s) using nmap, and then reboot to the regular OS and take > out your Knoppix disk.... ...knoppix or mepis, but not Ubuntu. I'm starting to hate Ubuntu as a rescue CD. From jim at well.com Wed Oct 18 18:08:04 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:08:04 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <7aa2e3d6fb60c20adcd10e7dee353e40@well.com> On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Rick Moen wrote:... Say, Rick: aren't you going to speak at one of the BALUG meetings about viruses for linux? What date? From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 18:32:06 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:32:06 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061019013205.GK7858@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > Remark at bottom is deliberately provocative. Note, > i've got the most recent knoppix and mepis CDs. I tend to be happy with just about any port in a storm. I.e., just about any live CD and (actually) many distro installer disks can serve as decent recovery media. Though, if you're collecting distro ISO (and I guess I am), there are better tools of a specialised nature: o RIP (Recovery Is Possible) o GParted CD o grml o SuperRescue CD o SystemRescueCd o Timo's Rescue CD I have all of those in my kit, and kinda feel a grandfatherly affection, since I helped design the Linuxcare Bootable Business Card that inspired pretty much all live-CD distros including Knoppix. (Sorry, I'm not going to compare & contrast those, for you.) You can probably find a bunch more here: http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 18:35:22 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:35:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] about /usr/local and package management In-Reply-To: <7aa2e3d6fb60c20adcd10e7dee353e40@well.com> References: <1844249702ec5a3b84e14a9f3b2e899b@well.com> <20061018165452.GR26620@linuxmafia.com> <59bbaeb40d94ebf3285baf19b0ed735c@well.com> <20061018213347.GG7858@linuxmafia.com> <152a457f2a68e93cf85e434afd26d75f@well.com> <20061018224659.GH7858@linuxmafia.com> <7aa2e3d6fb60c20adcd10e7dee353e40@well.com> Message-ID: <20061019013522.GL7858@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:46 PM, Rick Moen wrote:... > Say, Rick: aren't you going to speak at one of > the BALUG meetings about viruses for linux? > What date? Offered; not scheduled. I'm happy to be kept in reserve as an emergency holographic speaker. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Oct 18 19:01:53 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 19:01:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <9c9a641c554c84a38f57e816352bc20b@well.com> References: <20061018183757.40783.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9c9a641c554c84a38f57e816352bc20b@well.com> Message-ID: <20061019020153.GV26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > God bless you, John! It's a well-intended offer. You should realise, however, that there's been a race to make rackmount machines as thin as possible, for many years. Why? Well, a typical 8' rack has about 45 "U" of height to offer. (A "U" appears to be about 5 cm, or around two inches.) Rack height is thus a saleable commodity sold by the inch (per month) along with power and bandwidth. Manufacturers in 2006 thus work hard to avoid the 4U form factor except where it cannot be avoided, e.g. 8-way SPARC boxes with mammoth amounts of storage and heat dissipation, because they are more expensive to colocate. In consequence, they _love_ getting down to 1U or even 0.5U where feasible. If you're seriously considering picking up a used 4U case for a free-hosting offer, I'd advise checking with your benefactor to verify that they're happy giving away _that_ much rack space for free, every month. (You say his initial suggestion was a 1U; that might have been a broad hint.) From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 07:11:15 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] IE In-Reply-To: <2BB801FB-51B3-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> Message-ID: <20061019141115.9511.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> While we are not linux, we are impacted by Windows. Here is the latest on IE Here is the latest on Windows IE. Big makeover for IE browser October 19, 2006 - 1:58PM Microsoft has released Internet Explorer 7, the first major upgrade to its web browser since 2001 with new features aimed at preventing online fraud and improving ease of use. Microsoft's IE remains the most widely-used software to surf the web, but the long gap between major releases allowed for the emergence of the company's most formidable browser competitor since it vanquished the once-dominant Netscape. Mozilla Firefox, a free open-source browser, has steadily gained users since its introduction in 2004 with features such as an integrated search window to allow users to do a web query without opening another page, tab browsing to toggle between different sites and a pop-up window blocker. These features are included in the new Internet Explorer and Microsoft also touted the security improvements to the browser including color-coded warnings in the address bar to indicate whether a website can be trusted. IE 7 is available immediately to Windows XP users and it will eventually serve as the default browser for Microsoft's much-anticipated Windows Vista operating system, due out to consumers in early 2007. According to analysts, consumers increasingly identify the quality of an operating system with the quality of its browser and that makes a well-received browser important for Microsoft - even if it is not sold as a separate product. "How would it look if Microsoft didn't have a good browser as part of Windows? It wouldn't look good," said Forrester Research analyst Colin Teubner. Microsoft said it is already at work on the next version of Internet Explorer to ensure that long gaps between updates do not occur again. "Should we have done more, sooner, earlier? It's rare to not say that in hindsight," said Dean Hachamovitch, general manager of the Internet Explorer team at Microsoft. Internet Explorer registered an 86 percent global share in October, Mozilla Firefox 11.5 percent and both Apple Computer Inc.'s Safari and Norway's Opera Software, less than 2 per cent, according to OneStat.com. "It's exciting to see Microsoft reenter the browser space after leaving for five years," said Christopher Beard, vice president of products for Mozilla. "It's great to see that IE is adopting the features that we popularised." Mozilla said it also plans to release an upgraded browser, Firefox 2, within the next few weeks. The upgrade will include a feature to allow users to restore work done online if the browser or PC crashes, a spell check function for e-mails or blog postings and suggestions for search queries. Microsoft's Windows Live is the default search engine on Internet Explorer 7, but users will have the option to change to competing search engines. In Mozilla Firefox, the default search engine in the US is Google. Competitors raised objections to Microsoft making its own search engine the default setting over concern that it would unfairly drive traffic to Windows Live, but analysts said consumers will eventually gravitate toward the search engine that produces the best results. The new browser will be sent as an automatic security update and then users will have an option to install the new Internet Explorer onto their PC. Companies also have the option to block its workers from installing the new browser. IE 7 is available for download at http://www.microsoft.com/ie. Reuters Reference for this article: http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/ie-browser-gets-a-big-makeover/2006/10/19/1160851046679.html From jim at well.com Thu Oct 19 08:44:23 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 08:44:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <20061019020153.GV26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061018183757.40783.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9c9a641c554c84a38f57e816352bc20b@well.com> <20061019020153.GV26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <067fc9b5a9cc484f4528fe7a01c4663c@well.com> On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:01 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > (A "U" appears to be about 5 cm, or around two inches.) i believe 1.75" > I'd advise checking with your benefactor to verify > that they're happy giving away _that_ much rack space for free, every > month. (You say his initial suggestion was a 1U; that might have been > a > broad hint.) i think you're right. i suggested a 2U box as a possibility--the 1U boxes are a lot more expensive than a 2U box, so i figured we might not be able to afford a 1U.... From jim at well.com Thu Oct 19 09:22:18 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:22:18 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless In-Reply-To: <200610181548.16829.mark@sobell.com> References: <20061018202516.15068.qmail@web82808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2f88207688af0f2ab00fc1d35a39c240@well.com> <45369E4C.80003@gmail.com> <200610181548.16829.mark@sobell.com> Message-ID: <63bad731a2a61525aba68ed5ac2bb93e@well.com> i'm using OB1 wireless, based in a building on Ocean Beach; he installed an antenna on the back deck and we ran a cable in through the window. He wants me to try to sell access to my neighbors and install another antenna with repeater to feed them from our roof. OB1 has a T-1 coming into the beach building; out at ocean beach the telephone lines are so bad that best DSL rates are the lowest spec: not possible to buy higher bandwidth without getting T-1 guarantees. Anyone live between Geary and Fulton west of 43 and wants T-1 access choked through wi-fi (works pretty good for us)? On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:48 PM, Mark G Sobell wrote: > I have a node (sflan47). It has been down most of the year and I > cannot get a > peep out of anyone at sflan... > > Mark > > On Wednesday 18 October 2006 2:36 pm, jason stone wrote: >> Does anyone know what happened to SFLAN? It looks as if most nodes >> are >> inactive (especially after the San Bruno link went dead). >> >> thnx >> >> -jasonstone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > -- > Mark > mark at sobell.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Thu Oct 19 09:36:16 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 09:36:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] gerard cherchio--Unix filesystems lecture at SFSU Message-ID: <79af15710c8816e10e0c8f19af519d1b@well.com> Wednesday, October 25, 2006 CircleSoft principal to give talk at SFSU CircleSoft principal, Gerard J. Cerchio, has been invited by The PERNET Computer Science Graduate Seminar Series for Fall 2006 to give a presentation on Specialized File Systems for the Unix Kernel at Thornton Hall Room 331 on October 25, 2006 17:30PM. <------------ Mr. Cerchio will present: ? An Intro to the kernel VFS component of Unix type operating systems ? Description of the FUSE Open Source toolkit ? Some examples FUSE file systems ? DGMAFS a medical/miltary grade Archive File System currently being implemented by CircleSoft. ? Directions of data storage in the Unix environment Members of the public are invited. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1910 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul at funkychimp.net Thu Oct 19 10:02:03 2006 From: paul at funkychimp.net (Paul Lancaster) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:02:03 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <067fc9b5a9cc484f4528fe7a01c4663c@well.com> Message-ID: The offer is for 2U as well... -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 8:44 AM To: Rick Moen Cc: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] colo Hardware On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:01 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > (A "U" appears to be about 5 cm, or around two inches.) i believe 1.75" > I'd advise checking with your benefactor to verify > that they're happy giving away _that_ much rack space for free, every > month. (You say his initial suggestion was a 1U; that might have been > a > broad hint.) i think you're right. i suggested a 2U box as a possibility--the 1U boxes are a lot more expensive than a 2U box, so i figured we might not be able to afford a 1U.... _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From paul at funkychimp.net Thu Oct 19 10:05:23 2006 From: paul at funkychimp.net (Paul Lancaster) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 10:05:23 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <9c9a641c554c84a38f57e816352bc20b@well.com> Message-ID: 4U is a bit much... I can do up to 3U. -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of jim stockford Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:26 PM To: John Strazzarino Cc: SFLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [sf-lug] colo Hardware God bless you, John! On Oct 18, 2006, at 11:37 AM, John Strazzarino wrote: > Jim, > ? > I found a used 4U case with 450W power supply for $50 from a friend at > a local computer shop.? Would that work for the colo project?? > ? > John I donno: works for me, but Paul's initial suggestion was a 1U and I felt a bit like I was sniggling when I upped the spec to 2U. I'll ask him. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From nbs at sonic.net Thu Oct 19 14:50:05 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:50:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [fwd] Ubuntu Developer Summit [Mtn View, Nov 5-10] Message-ID: <20061019215005.GC5356@sonic.net> Seen on SVLUG: ----- Forwarded message from "Ubuntu California Team (Mark Nielsen)" ----- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView November 5th to 10th at Google. Mark ----- End forwarded message ----- -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From jim at well.com Thu Oct 19 14:58:53 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:58:53 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0b11fafb718efc7192e04e7ca76b2cc3@well.com> then let's stick to 2U max--part of the good neighbor business. I figure i'll bring the tower down (after filling out the paperwork for you) first, then putting in a 2U (or 1U if we can find it) later. more thanks, jim On Oct 19, 2006, at 10:05 AM, Paul Lancaster wrote: > 4U is a bit much... I can do up to 3U. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] > On Behalf Of jim stockford > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:26 PM > To: John Strazzarino > Cc: SFLUG Mailing List > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] colo Hardware > > > God bless you, John! > > On Oct 18, 2006, at 11:37 AM, John Strazzarino wrote: > >> Jim, >> ? >> I found a used 4U case with 450W power supply for $50 from a friend at >> a local computer shop.? Would that work for the colo project?? >> ? >> John > > I donno: works for me, but Paul's initial suggestion > was a 1U and I felt a bit like I was sniggling when I > upped the spec to 2U. > I'll ask him. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > From paul at funkychimp.net Thu Oct 19 15:12:22 2006 From: paul at funkychimp.net (Paul Lancaster) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 15:12:22 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] colo Hardware In-Reply-To: <0b11fafb718efc7192e04e7ca76b2cc3@well.com> Message-ID: > then let's stick to 2U max--part of the good neighbor >business. I figure i'll bring the tower down (after filling >0ut the paperwork for you) first, then putting in a 2U >(or 1U if we can find it) later. >more thanks, >jim Sounds great. From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Oct 19 17:09:37 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:09:37 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] IE In-Reply-To: <20061019141115.9511.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> References: <2BB801FB-51B3-11DB-873F-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20061019141115.9511.qmail@web50401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061020000937.GD26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Tony (vze2jy85 at yahoo.com): > While we are not linux, we are impacted by Windows. > Here is the latest on IE > > Here is the latest on Windows IE. > > Big makeover for IE browser > October 19, 2006 - 1:58PM Naw, the _latest_ was from "Good Morning Silicon Valley" http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/10/wow_this_tabbed.html : First announced more than 20 months ago by Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, IE7 -- or "Internet OperaFox," as we call it 'round here -- is a fundamental rewrite of IE6 that outfits it with "new" features that are already almost old enough to carbon date. [...] It's always a good day when GMSV's John Paczkowski gets back from vacation, and lets off another roaring salvo like that one. Recommended, if only for the headlines (e.g., "Heckuva Job, Pattie"). But, on the whole, I'd personally rather discuss Linux -- especially on a LUG mailing list. -- Cheers, A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will Rick Moen annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright rick at linuxmafia.com From rondosxx at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 20:43:01 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 20:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] SF Wireless Message-ID: <20061020034301.92790.qmail@web52509.mail.yahoo.com> SF Wireless has been functionally dead for quite a long time. Hams were talking about it. Maybe someone is maintaining the webpage, but it's vaporware. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jim at well.com Sat Oct 21 09:53:48 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 09:53:48 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting Message-ID: <16a414404062b890867b3dc6b6bccc9f@well.com> from the Peninsula Linux User(*s*) group: Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bill Ward" > Date: October 20, 2006 9:01:51 PM PDT > To: "PenLUG Members" > Subject: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting > > Our domain penlug.org is hosted on a box which is part of the > California Community Colo Project (www.communitycolo.org) which is a > non-profit organization. > > The organization is having a serious budget shortfall and I am > currently at the emergency volunteer meeting where we are organizing a > pledge drive. They need to raise $20,000 to cover expenses for the > next three months or the service could be shut down!!! Anyone who > derives benefit from the site, such as PenLUG members, is encouraged > to pledge to support the org. A pledge of any size is welcome. > > My wife and I have personally been also giving a $10/month donation. > But for this pledge drive we have pledged $120 ($40/month for the next > 3 months). It costs an average of about $50/month per computer to > cover expenses - our box is shared with dozens of other domains. But > most users don't donate, and the org has been operating at a loss, > which is why there is a financial crisis. > > To pledge, send an email to pledge at communitycolo.net or edit the > pledge page on the wiki: > http://cccp.pbwiki.com/FrontPage > > Let me know if you have any questions. > > --Bill. > > > -- > Help bring back the San Jose Earthquakes - > http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > PenLUG-Members mailing list > PenLUG-Members at penlug.org > http://www.penlug.org/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1871 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rondosxx at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 16:33:04 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting Message-ID: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> Can someone offer some perspective here? I am totally unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a couple of people are supporting it under the radar; Jim and Rick come to mind. Is there a compelling reason to donate to PEN-LUG? Shouldn't they be shaming their own members to shoulder the burden? Last time I looked, the Peninsula is one of the richest counties in California. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From johnlowry at gmail.com Sat Oct 21 16:48:46 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:48:46 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <453AB1DE.1040608@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I don't think it is for PERNLug, I think it is for communitycolo. Could very easily be wrong, someone correct me if I am. ron wrote: > Can someone offer some perspective here? I am totally > unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating > costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a > couple of people are supporting it under the radar; > Jim and Rick come to mind. Is there a compelling > reason to donate to PEN-LUG? Shouldn't they be shaming > their own members to shoulder the burden? Last time I > looked, the Peninsula is one of the richest counties > in California. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > - -- John Lowry johnlowry at gmail.com (415) 341-4298 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFOrHeO75UGio03IQRAm39AJwI+v2N2XDLpBpUSyE0MBqqxk3iQgCgjDdb dKpzRr4JbYLoSJSKAf0Y+EI= =6+yi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jim at well.com Sat Oct 21 18:21:15 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:21:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: <453AB1DE.1040608@gmail.com> References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> <453AB1DE.1040608@gmail.com> Message-ID: most LUGs are informal, ad hoc groups (i believe there's a legal term for such that legitimizes informal groups for a particular legal status). SF-LUG is such. See the web site for specifics, especially the parts asking for volunteers to help here and there (manage the web site and, soon, to help with the machine in its new colo space should it go down). as to PenLUG, John's got it right: there is an umbrella group of do-gooders called California Community Colocation Project (unfortunately sporting the initials CCCP). See http://www.onlinepolicy.org/media/011212.opg.cccp.shtml for information and links. PenLUG's depending on CCCP, which is having money problems, and so PenLUG is asking its members to help out. Sympathetic, I forwarded their request for help to our bunch in the event some of us feel kindly and able to lend a fiscal hand. I'm copying Bill Ward, the PenLUG honcho, for verification, correction, additional info. jim On Oct 21, 2006, at 4:48 PM, John Lowry wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I don't think it is for PERNLug, > I think it is for communitycolo. Could very easily be wrong, someone > correct me if I am. > > ron wrote: >> Can someone offer some perspective here? I am totally >> unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating >> costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a >> couple of people are supporting it under the radar; >> Jim and Rick come to mind. Is there a compelling >> reason to donate to PEN-LUG? Shouldn't they be shaming >> their own members to shoulder the burden? Last time I >> looked, the Peninsula is one of the richest counties >> in California. >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >> http://mail.yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > - -- > John Lowry > johnlowry at gmail.com > (415) 341-4298 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFFOrHeO75UGio03IQRAm39AJwI+v2N2XDLpBpUSyE0MBqqxk3iQgCgjDdb > dKpzRr4JbYLoSJSKAf0Y+EI= > =6+yi > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Sat Oct 21 18:38:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 18:38:19 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Volunteer help & donations needed for CCCP (our hosting provider) Message-ID: further info re CCCP and PenLUG Begin forwarded message: > From: "Bill Ward" > Date: October 20, 2006 11:38:55 AM PDT > To: "PenLUG Members" > Subject: [PenLUG] Volunteer help & donations needed for CCCP (our > hosting provider) > > Our hosting provider, the California Community Colo Project or CCCP is > a non profit org that operates the space where the box containing > penlug.org is located. You can read about them at > http://www.communitycolo.net/ if you haven't heard of them. > > The organization is in crisis. Due to a shortage of funding and > volunteers there is a very real danger that it could collapse. > Tonight at 7pm in Hillsborough there is an emergency meeting to try to > get it back on an even keel. I'm attending that, and if you would > like to attend also, email me and I will send the directions. > > If you are interested in volunteering to help run things, I think the > main thing that is needed is administrative help - bookkeeping (which > isn't easy for a 501(c)(3) nonprofit) being one of the primary issues. > There may also be need for some technical help (networking, etc.) > > If you would like to help financially that would also be welcome. > > Let me know what extent, if any, you are able and willing to help. If > you cannot attend the meeting tonight, I will be happy to relay > anything you would like to say, and/or get you on any appropriate > mailing lists. > > Thanks! > > --Bill. > > -- > Help bring back the San Jose Earthquakes - > http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > PenLUG-Members mailing list > PenLUG-Members at penlug.org > http://www.penlug.org/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1946 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Oct 23 02:22:57 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:22:57 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061023092256.GK26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting ron (rondosxx at yahoo.com): > I am totally unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating > costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a couple of people > are supporting it under the radar; Jim and Rick come to mind. Jim Stockford picks up the only direct cost I'm aware of, which is the approximately $12-15 per year for domain registration (used for the Web site). The SF-LUG mailing list shares my cheap ol' Linux server on my house aDSL line. That doesn't per-se cost me a penny, because I keep that server up and running for other reasons, the mailing list adds negligible extra load to what the host already does, and y'all are perfectly welcome guests. I cannot comment on PenLUG matters, but the general topic reminds me of something I've been pondering for a while: Typical Web/e-mail sites (Internet servers) for LUGs or similar small non-profits or small businesses can run perfectly on throwaway-hardware Linux servers drawing ridiculously small amounts of bandwidth. Here's a quick'n'dirty way of guesstimating bandwidth requirements. 1. Run "/sbin/ifconfig [interface]" to get the transmitted (TX) and received (RX) byte counts. Note down the time/date. $ /sbin/ifconfig eth1 eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:D0:B7:93:31:0E inet addr:198.144.195.186 Bcast:198.144.195.191 Mask:255.255.255.248 UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:66321724 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:77788011 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 RX bytes:1500480318 (1.3 GiB) TX bytes:903698173 (861.8 MiB) Interrupt:11 Base address:0x1080 Memory:fa202000-fa202038 $ date Mon Oct 23 00:13:41 PDT 2006 2. Wait a while -- preferably at least a day. Do step #1 again (to get a second data point at a later date/time). Subtract figures between the dates, to get bytes received and transmitted during the period in question. Add the TX and RX byte differences together. (They're both traffic.) Divide by elapsed time, to get average network traffic per unit of time. Traffic levels may have spikes, but typically not significant ones for small groups' Internet sites' Web and mailing list traffic. Over at SVLUG, one of the largest LUGs in the world, we did this for our "www.svlug.org" AKA "lists.svlug.org" AKA "svlug.org" host, and found that average traffic levels were so low that we could have comfortably put the machine on a dial-up modem line, and not suffered any noticeable bandwidth shortage. So, what does such a site really need, if not non-trivial bandwidth? o IP service that works, at one or a series of locations. o one or more cheap throwaway machine (PII, 128MB RAM, etc.) o backups o ability to re-point DNS records fairly quickly (1/2 day, say) o system administration at the level of an interested and careful amateur A friend of mine runs a set of interrelated domains hosting Web sites and mailing lists for some large, annual volunteer events -- which were for a long time hosted on one of the volunteers' Solaris machines. (For any who don't know, Solaris is a Unix, recently open-sourced.) That machine lived at the volunteer's house, which was on PacBell/SBC home aDSL line. Recently, in a development that will be familiar to frequent SBC broadband customers, the volunteer has been suddenly subjected to weeks of mysterious service outage, with no end in sight. My friend is livid, but unfortunately for him had no Plan B, and so is currently stewing over the situation. What went wrong? a) There was no standby spare machine or even standby spare hard drive. b) There were no offsite regular backups. c) Nobody in the group had the expertise to make use of those things, had they existed, anyway. Despite the fact that building a replacement server (with Linux, BSD, or Solaris) and deploying it any-old-where is dead simple, my friend is still suffering extended downtime while looking for a "hosting service" to magically take care of all backup, maintenance, and system administration for him, for some serious bunch of money per month. The way I'd do it is: Run the Internet services on a cheap machine running just about anywhere that provides a static IP. (Avoiding PacBell/SBC broadband would be common sense, though.) Have daily or better backups. Have at least one standby machine available, preferably OS-loaded and ready to go. (Making the backup be directly onto one of the spare machines would be a nice touch.) Be able to re-point the DNS in a hurry. Not a lot of expertise is needed, frankly, and rudiments of Unix system administration aren't exactly brain surgery. (Dealing effectively with the spam problem's about the only challenging part.) Yet, people spend a lot of money and time on paid hosting arrangements, colos, etc., when most of the time they don't have to. From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Oct 23 02:31:16 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 02:31:16 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061023093116.GM26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting ron (rondosxx at yahoo.com): > Can someone offer some perspective here? As someone else mentioned, the entity that's in trouble is not PenLUG, but rather the "community colo" outfit where its machine currently lives. It's not _too_ surprising that an outfit advertsing "free colocation for individuals and non-profits" would find itself in financial trouble and with a shortage of technically adept volunteers, but I'm very sorry to see it happen. http://www.communitycolo.net/ From jim at well.com Mon Oct 23 08:48:49 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:48:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] problem with callback on embedded linux box Message-ID: <6efe61df281ebe7c732a7de8fde1b032@well.com> Here's what i think is an interesting problem. Some one elsewhere asks: -------------------------------------------------- Does anyone have experience with callback on Linux with mgetty? I'm trying to get it working on a Cyclades console server box that has imbedded Linux. I can get the callback to work, but I want to turn off direct dial in. Currently the way it works is you have a user in /etc/mgetty/login.config. If you call into the box and enter that name (the default is cbuser) it will hang up and call you back at the number associated with that user. That works fine. The problem is if you enter any other user with a login in etc/passwd, like root, you are prompted for a password and you're logged in. Since this box will sit on the customer's network, if someone gets in, they can go anywhere, not to mention accessing the router/switches that this box is connected to. This is a major security issue and if a solution is not found by the vendor or myself, I will have to start looking for a different console server solution that will work. Here's a description of how it works, but they don't address the dialin issue. http://astrolog.offline.ee/linux/callback.shtml (for those that haven't seen my posts in MS Windows or Networking, I inherited this project and they already had evaluation units from Cyclades) From jim at well.com Mon Oct 23 08:53:49 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:53:49 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [PenLUG] Donation for hosting -- question from sf-lug Message-ID: <129128ce3fbc0147d86a507d11a0d4a9@well.com> From one of the CCCP guys (my query to him at bottom): Begin forwarded message: > From: "David Weekly" > Date: October 22, 2006 8:06:07 PM PDT > To: "jim stockford" > Subject: Re: question from sf-lug > > Jim, > > CCCP is the only place in the world that de facto gives free > colocation to Open Source projects. We've helped many Open Source > projects like Kaffe get off the ground and helped give hobbyist > developers a place for them to test out concepts and launch free > products. :) We're here for the community and we hope the community > will be here for us as well. > > Cheers, > ?David Weekly > ?Founder of CCCP > > > On 10/21/06, jim stockford wrote: >> ????san francisco linux users' group has now heard >> of CCCP's need for help. as sf-lug is self-sufficient >> (albeit in a creaky fashion), the question arises >> "why CCCP for SF-LUG?" >> ????sf-lug seems to have no need of colo facilities, >> but there might be some linux or freeBSD or Gnu >> or FOSS project that has benefits for sf-lug members, >> and it may be that some group of sf-luggers might >> come up with a project that could benefit from >> having a 501(c)3 corporation as an umbrella, >> should CCCP be supportive. >> ????it's a general question, but given the above, what >> do you all see as ways CCCP might provide some >> benefits that sf-lug members would value and thus >> answer "why sf-lug members and others should >> give time or money to help CCCP?" >> ????There is now a small thread about this in the >> sf-lug email stream; I'll be happy to forward any >> info from you to the group. >> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1908 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Mon Oct 23 09:02:10 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:02:10 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: <20061023092256.GK26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> <20061023092256.GK26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: very helpful instructions below, thanks. On Oct 23, 2006, at 2:22 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting ron (rondosxx at yahoo.com): > >> I am totally unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating >> costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a couple of people >> are supporting it under the radar; Jim and Rick come to mind. > > Jim Stockford picks up the only direct cost I'm aware of, which is the > approximately $12-15 per year for domain registration (used for the Web > site). The SF-LUG mailing list shares my cheap ol' Linux server on my > house aDSL line. That doesn't per-se cost me a penny, because I keep > that server up and running for other reasons, the mailing list adds > negligible extra load to what the host already does, and y'all are > perfectly welcome guests. > > I cannot comment on PenLUG matters, but the general topic reminds me of > something I've been pondering for a while: > > Typical Web/e-mail sites (Internet servers) for LUGs or similar small > non-profits or small businesses can run perfectly on throwaway-hardware > Linux servers drawing ridiculously small amounts of bandwidth. Here's > a > quick'n'dirty way of guesstimating bandwidth requirements. > > 1. Run "/sbin/ifconfig [interface]" to get the transmitted (TX) and > received (RX) byte counts. Note down the time/date. > > $ /sbin/ifconfig eth1 > eth1 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:D0:B7:93:31:0E > inet addr:198.144.195.186 Bcast:198.144.195.191 > Mask:255.255.255.248 > UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 > RX packets:66321724 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 > TX packets:77788011 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 > collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 > RX bytes:1500480318 (1.3 GiB) TX bytes:903698173 (861.8 > MiB) > Interrupt:11 Base address:0x1080 Memory:fa202000-fa202038 > > $ date > Mon Oct 23 00:13:41 PDT 2006 > > 2. Wait a while -- preferably at least a day. Do step #1 again (to > get > a second data point at a later date/time). Subtract figures between > the > dates, to get bytes received and transmitted during the period in > question. Add the TX and RX byte differences together. (They're both > traffic.) Divide by elapsed time, to get average network traffic per > unit of time. > > > Traffic levels may have spikes, but typically not significant ones for > small groups' Internet sites' Web and mailing list traffic. Over at > SVLUG, one of the largest LUGs in the world, we did this for our > "www.svlug.org" AKA "lists.svlug.org" AKA "svlug.org" host, and found > that average traffic levels were so low that we could have comfortably > put the machine on a dial-up modem line, and not suffered any > noticeable > bandwidth shortage. > > So, what does such a site really need, if not non-trivial bandwidth? > > o IP service that works, at one or a series of locations. > o one or more cheap throwaway machine (PII, 128MB RAM, etc.) > o backups > o ability to re-point DNS records fairly quickly (1/2 day, say) > o system administration at the level of an interested and careful > amateur > > A friend of mine runs a set of interrelated domains hosting Web sites > and mailing lists for some large, annual volunteer events -- which were > for a long time hosted on one of the volunteers' Solaris machines. > (For any who don't know, Solaris is a Unix, recently open-sourced.) > That machine lived at the volunteer's house, which was on PacBell/SBC > home aDSL line. Recently, in a development that will be familiar to > frequent SBC broadband customers, the volunteer has been suddenly > subjected to weeks of mysterious service outage, with no end in sight. > My friend is livid, but unfortunately for him had no Plan B, and so is > currently stewing over the situation. > > What went wrong? a) There was no standby spare machine or even standby > spare hard drive. b) There were no offsite regular backups. c) Nobody > in the group had the expertise to make use of those things, had they > existed, anyway. > > Despite the fact that building a replacement server (with Linux, BSD, > or > Solaris) and deploying it any-old-where is dead simple, my friend is > still suffering extended downtime while looking for a "hosting service" > to magically take care of all backup, maintenance, and system > administration for him, for some serious bunch of money per month. > > The way I'd do it is: Run the Internet services on a cheap machine > running just about anywhere that provides a static IP. (Avoiding > PacBell/SBC broadband would be common sense, though.) Have daily or > better backups. Have at least one standby machine available, > preferably > OS-loaded and ready to go. (Making the backup be directly onto one of > the spare machines would be a nice touch.) Be able to re-point the DNS > in a hurry. > > Not a lot of expertise is needed, frankly, and rudiments of Unix system > administration aren't exactly brain surgery. (Dealing effectively with > the spam problem's about the only challenging part.) Yet, people spend > a lot of money and time on paid hosting arrangements, colos, etc., when > most of the time they don't have to. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs at sonic.net Mon Oct 23 11:51:05 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 11:51:05 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] New Tux Paint is here! Message-ID: <20061023185105.GA20238@sonic.net> Check it out! http://www.tuxpaint.org/latest/ :) -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From nbs at sonic.net Mon Oct 23 13:44:25 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:44:25 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] [Semi-OT] Help rewrite Tux Paint's documentation! Message-ID: <20061023204424.GG21290@sonic.net> I'm looking for people to, in the coming months, help rewrite Tux Paint's end-user documentation. Please let me know if you're interested in helping! For details, see the Help Wanted post I just put up on SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/people/viewjob.php?group_id=66938&job_id=26726 Thanks! -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From sverma at sfsu.edu Mon Oct 23 15:32:41 2006 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 15:32:41 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] BBC documentary now available online Message-ID: <453D4309.50309@sfsu.edu> The DVD titled "The Codebreakers", a documentary by the BBC on the use of free and open source software in many parts of the world. It is released online under Creative Commons Attribution 2.5 license. Download The Codebreakers http://videos.apdip.net/codebreakers.ogg, [OGG, 90MB] http://www.apdip.net/videos/codebreakers-208x160.wmv, [WMV, 60MB] http://videos.apdip.net/codebreakers.m4v, [M4V, 225MB] http://www.iosn.net/publications/multimedia/the-codebreakers-1/codebreakers.iso.torrent [DVD ISO torrent, 1.5GB]. You can also order it online from http://www.tveap.org/shopping/search.php The DVD is US$10 + US$10 shipping via airmail or US$10 + US$36 for DHL delivery. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From rondosxx at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 16:16:41 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Alternative to PacBell DSL: sonic.com Message-ID: <20061023231641.25542.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> We had a falling out with Pac Bell too. We refused to "upgrade" to their yahoo branded DSL, so eventually they decided to bill us online without telling us. Of course we never received the bill, there's no reason why anything from them wouldn't be spam, now is there? So when we enquired why our service had been off for a day and a half, they told us we hadn't paid and our account had been cancelled. BUT we could sign a two year contract and service could be restored in 10 days. Two minutes later I was talking to sonic.com, and two days later we had received the new modem from sonic and we were up and running without a single interruption in the past six months. And that's something I couldn't say about the former service. So we're quite happy. Maybe sonic can help your friend. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From nbs at sonic.net Mon Oct 23 16:20:40 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:20:40 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Alternative to PacBell DSL: sonic.com In-Reply-To: <20061023231641.25542.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061023231641.25542.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061023232040.GA27278@sonic.net> On Mon, Oct 23, 2006 at 04:16:41PM -0700, ron wrote: > Two minutes later I was talking to sonic.com, I assume you mean Sonic.net, the most-excellent ISP located up in Santa Rosa. (I use them to host newbreedsoftware.com, and they are my DSL provider down here in Mtn View.) Sonic.com appears to be DVD-related software/hardware. ;) -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 16:54:34 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 16:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] MIT classes.. Message-ID: <20061023235434.20818.qmail@web82813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thought I'd share. http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html . And you don't have to worry about a grade. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Oct 23 17:59:02 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:59:02 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Alternative to PacBell DSL: sonic.com In-Reply-To: <20061023231641.25542.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061023231641.25542.qmail@web52514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061024005902.GW26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting ron (rondosxx at yahoo.com): > Maybe sonic can help your friend. Sonic.net is a well-respected local provider, modulo some past problems with labour relations. (See link from the front page of http://linuxmafia.com/, down near the bottom, in the Google Juicebox, for details.) I happen to prefer Raw Bandwidth Communications, and have been a happy customer for many years (since Northpoint's SDSL network shut down). But that, alas, would be the smallest of the friend's problems. As I pointed out, the volunteer's extended courtesy of PacBell/SBC shooting him in his pedal extremities would have been a non-issue if my friend had taken some modest measures (which I listed) to keep his Internet presence _portable_. It's supposed to go like this: Scenario #1. Connectivity downtime? No problem: Pick up the box, move it to generic IP elsewhere, repoint the DNS, twiddle a couple of IP references in /etc/, done. Scenario #2. Machine collapsed, and/or it got switched off and you can't reach it to fix it? No problem: Deploy spare (and equally cheap) box on a different IP, using nightly backup data, proceeding otherwise as in scenario #1. My friend was stymied by downtime because he didn't realise that (lower-speed, non-colo) IP service is dirt-cheap, as are kickaround Linux machines. Once you realise that, the solution's obvious. The friend, however, is planning to spend a big amont of money per month on a "hosted solution", because he wants to buy a solution rather than provide it from readily available things he has everywhere around him. As I said in the Linux User Group HOWTO, there's a cultural problem: Most people, most of the time, value at cost things they receive for free -- and I wasn't charging him for my advice and suggestions. ;-> From bill at wards.net Sun Oct 22 02:29:13 2006 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 02:29:13 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] Donation for hosting In-Reply-To: References: <20061021233304.17920.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com> <453AB1DE.1040608@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d2fe1780610220229v5af770ccte7332363a74b4cea@mail.gmail.com> Thanks. Actually the CCCP is only involved in hosting PenLUG - they aren't an umbrella org. in any other sense. Still, it's a worthy cause. On 10/21/06, jim stockford wrote: > > most LUGs are informal, ad hoc groups (i believe there's > a legal term for such that legitimizes informal groups for a > particular legal status). > SF-LUG is such. See the web site for specifics, especially > the parts asking for volunteers to help here and there > (manage the web site and, soon, to help with the machine > in its new colo space should it go down). > > as to PenLUG, John's got it right: there is an umbrella > group of do-gooders called California Community Colocation > Project (unfortunately sporting the initials CCCP). > See > http://www.onlinepolicy.org/media/011212.opg.cccp.shtml > for information and links. > PenLUG's depending on CCCP, which is having money > problems, and so PenLUG is asking its members to help out. > Sympathetic, I forwarded their request for help to our bunch > in the event some of us feel kindly and able to lend a fiscal > hand. > > I'm copying Bill Ward, the PenLUG honcho, for verification, > correction, additional info. > jim > > > > On Oct 21, 2006, at 4:48 PM, John Lowry wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I don't think it is for PERNLug, > > I think it is for communitycolo. Could very easily be wrong, someone > > correct me if I am. > > > > ron wrote: > >> Can someone offer some perspective here? I am totally > >> unaware of how even our own LUG covers its operating > >> costs. I suspect they are minimal, though perhaps a > >> couple of people are supporting it under the radar; > >> Jim and Rick come to mind. Is there a compelling > >> reason to donate to PEN-LUG? Shouldn't they be shaming > >> their own members to shoulder the burden? Last time I > >> looked, the Peninsula is one of the richest counties > >> in California. > >> > >> __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> > > > > - -- > > John Lowry > > johnlowry at gmail.com > > (415) 341-4298 > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) > > > > iD8DBQFFOrHeO75UGio03IQRAm39AJwI+v2N2XDLpBpUSyE0MBqqxk3iQgCgjDdb > > dKpzRr4JbYLoSJSKAf0Y+EI= > > =6+yi > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > -- Help bring back the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ From a_kleider at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 13:42:29 2006 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 13:42:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] sonic.net Message-ID: <20061024204229.82577.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I've had their standard (dynamic IP) service since spring and have recently aquired another similar service in another abode and a fixed IP service for a business. I can't speak highly enough of their service. Efficient and very friendly: When you call, a human answers the phone which in my mind these days is the best endorsement. I would advise anyone to go with sonic.net. And they are Local (Santa Rosa, CA) and they use Linux. alex at kleider.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From bill at wards.net Tue Oct 24 15:30:38 2006 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:30:38 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] PenLUG this week - "Boosting Linux Adoption through Better Manageability" by Laurent Gharda Message-ID: <3d2fe1780610241530k1e0dfe0dp19cbe6e4d3592b95@mail.gmail.com> PenLUG (Peninsula Linux Users' Group) is having a meeting the day after tomorrow! You are invited. RSVP is not required, but so we can get an idea of how many people to expect please send mail to rsvp at penlug.org to let us know if you are planning to attend. For full details about the group, as well as directions to the meeting, visit www.penlug.org. Free pizza, hors d'ouvres and soft drinks, courtesy of Open Country, will be provided. Free review copies of books from O'Reilly, Prentice-Hall, APress, and/or other publishers, will be given out as door prizes. Be on time for the eary bird drawing. NOTE: Due to the holidays, our meetings in November and December will be on the 2nd Thursday instead of the 4th. So our next meeting after this will be Thursday, November 9. Date: Thursday, October 26th, 2006 Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 Speaker: Laurent Gharda Topic: Boosting Linux Adoption through Better Manageability Laurent will discuss how systems management is helping accelerate the adoption of Linux in large environments, both domestically and internationally. Included in the presentation will be an overview of basic concepts in managing large numbers of remote systems, reasons why some companies use systems management tools and others don't, emerging business models for Linux services (e.g., Managed Service Providers, inter-company and entrepreneurial collaboration), cultural and maturity differences between the US and emerging geographies and their impact on the growth rate of Linux. As COO of Open Country, Laurent oversees engineering, marketing, professional services, human resources and operations. Prior to joining Open Country, Laurent served as COO of eCode, VP of marketing of Phoenix Technologies, VP of marketing of Award Software, President and founder of QualSoft, VP of Sales of Veritas Software and spent ten successful years at Hewlett-Packard in a variety of senior business development and marketing positions. Laurent earned a B.A. in Computer Science from the University of California at Berkeley and a French National Baccalaureate in philosophy and modern languages. Laurent is the sole inventor of US Patent 6,009,520 and co-inventor of US Patents 6,560,702 and 6,564,318 addressing the manageability of application software, system software and enabling firmware in computer systems and embedded devices. He serves on the board of directors of CodeWeavers. Laurent was recently featured in the October 2006 OSDL newsletter. From jim at well.com Fri Oct 27 07:36:15 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:36:15 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting Sunday 11/5 -- Colo'ing Message-ID: <11c320b94caa357b78e81283628893aa@well.com> Just in case enthusiasm overcomes you--the next sf-lug meeting is not this coming Sunday but in a week: Sunday 11/5 at the Javacat at 11 AM. Paul Lancaster will be there to discuss colo in general and the ServePath facility in particular. I'm hoping those of you who've offered help _will_ help when the time comes, which will be "soon." I need to have names to fill out the colo agreement form--who's interested and willing to help with the box when it's installed in the Spear Street facility? To get in, you have to be on the approved list. Lemme know, please, so i can add your name. Note that "soon" includes a tour of the ServePath facility and a chance to talk to their tech staff. From jim at well.com Fri Oct 27 07:37:52 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 07:37:52 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: technology benefits Message-ID: <748d2455731e11beecde7e5097a68293@well.com> > > from lx: > > http://www.europol.eu.int/index.asp? > page=EUOrganisedCrimeSitRep2002#MAJOR%20ORGANISED%20CRIME%20GROUPS > > "Organised crime groups are clearly among the main beneficiaries > of the technological progress; the results of which are often > commercially available. > Advances in areas such as telecommunications, transport and, > fundamentally, the development of cyberspace, have provided > huge opportunities and provided a vast arena for organised crime > groups in which to operate." > > your tho'ts? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 619 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nathank at evilmonkeys.com Fri Oct 27 11:39:14 2006 From: nathank at evilmonkeys.com (Nathan) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:39:14 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Segfaulting Message-ID: <45425252.9080609@evilmonkeys.com> When I run xmms, mplayer, or amarok they will all segfault right way. Re-installed all the packages and still the same result. First I though I may have something to do w/ alsa but I can still get sound though the flash plugin in firefox and mpg123 works fine. For fun I installed a newer kernel and re-installed alsa, neither worked. Never really used gdb for anything so I guessed now would be a good time to start, ran it and got this: (gdb) run Starting program: /usr/bin/xmms Failed to read a valid object file image from memory. [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] [New Thread 16384 (LWP 11896)] [New Thread 32769 (LWP 11899)] [New Thread 16386 (LWP 11900)] Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 11896)] 0xb7f0894e in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (gdb) bt #0 0xb7f0894e in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 #1 0xb7b926d5 in _dl_open () from /lib/libc.so.6 #2 0xb7f0b43f in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 #3 0xb7b91e0f in _dl_open () from /lib/libc.so.6 #4 0xb7cc3d8e in dlopen () from /lib/libdl.so.2 #5 0xb7f0b43f in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 #6 0xb7cc41bd in dlvsym () from /lib/libdl.so.2 #7 0xb7cc3d21 in dlopen () from /lib/libdl.so.2 #8 0x0806843d in add_plugin () #9 0x080686b8 in scan_plugins () #10 0x08068a2b in init_plugins () #11 0x0808b38e in main () Since I'm not much of a coder and this will be the 3rd time I've ever used gdb. I cant really tell what is going on. Ran it for mplayer also but it's got even less info. Anyone have clues about what is going on? mpg123 is no civilized way to listen to music ;) Nathan From akast172 at coatimundi.net Fri Oct 27 11:54:27 2006 From: akast172 at coatimundi.net (Anton Kast) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 11:54:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Segfaulting In-Reply-To: <45425252.9080609@evilmonkeys.com> References: <45425252.9080609@evilmonkeys.com> Message-ID: I am no expert, but I think XMMS uses plugins to decode its various sound formats, and this call stack suggests there is a linking error when loading one of these plugins. I'd look for a corrupt or incompatible XMMS plugin, perhaps something called "lib*.so" under /usr/lib/xmms. Anton Kast On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Nathan wrote: > When I run xmms, mplayer, or amarok they will all segfault right way. > Re-installed all the packages and still the same result. First I though > I may have something to do w/ alsa but I can still get sound though the > flash plugin in firefox and mpg123 works fine. For fun I installed a > newer kernel and re-installed alsa, neither worked. > > Never really used gdb for anything so I guessed now would be a good time > to start, ran it and got this: > > (gdb) run > Starting program: /usr/bin/xmms > Failed to read a valid object file image from memory. > [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] > [New Thread 16384 (LWP 11896)] > [New Thread 32769 (LWP 11899)] > [New Thread 16386 (LWP 11900)] > > Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. > [Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 11896)] > 0xb7f0894e in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 > (gdb) bt > #0 0xb7f0894e in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 > #1 0xb7b926d5 in _dl_open () from /lib/libc.so.6 > #2 0xb7f0b43f in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 > #3 0xb7b91e0f in _dl_open () from /lib/libc.so.6 > #4 0xb7cc3d8e in dlopen () from /lib/libdl.so.2 > #5 0xb7f0b43f in _dl_rtld_di_serinfo () from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 > #6 0xb7cc41bd in dlvsym () from /lib/libdl.so.2 > #7 0xb7cc3d21 in dlopen () from /lib/libdl.so.2 > #8 0x0806843d in add_plugin () > #9 0x080686b8 in scan_plugins () > #10 0x08068a2b in init_plugins () > #11 0x0808b38e in main () > > Since I'm not much of a coder and this will be the 3rd time I've ever > used gdb. I cant really tell what is going on. Ran it for mplayer also > but it's got even less info. Anyone have clues about what is going on? > mpg123 is no civilized way to listen to music ;) > > Nathan > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rondosxx at yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 13:05:31 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting Sunday 11/5 -- Colo'ing Message-ID: <20061027200531.10868.qmail@web52508.mail.yahoo.com> I'd like to participate in colo and other network care projects. Maybe I can come nov 5, and will start having more time after say dec 10... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From jim at well.com Fri Oct 27 18:01:51 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:01:51 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting Sunday 11/5 -- Colo'ing In-Reply-To: <20061027144931.68104.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061027144931.68104.qmail@web35601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <69a49447f90dee3edc4b98f9c468f5d6@well.com> you're counted, and with thanks. On Oct 27, 2006, at 7:49 AM, John Strazzarino wrote: > Jim, > ? > Count me in ...John Strazzarino > ? > > > jim stockford wrote: >> >> Just in case enthusiasm overcomes you--the next >> sf-lug meeting is not this coming Sunday but in a >> week: Sunday 11/5 at the Javacat at 11 AM. >> Paul Lancaster will be there to discuss colo in >> general and the ServePath facility in particular. >> >> I'm hoping those of you who've offered help _will_ >> help when the time comes, which will be "soon." >> I need to have names to fill out the colo agreement >> form--who's interested and willing to help with the >> box when it's installed in the Spear Street facility? >> To get in, you have to be on the approved list. >> Lemme know, please, so i can add your name. >> >> Note that "soon" includes a tour of the ServePath >> facility and a chance to talk to their tech staff. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great > rates starting at 1?/min. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1237 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Fri Oct 27 18:09:30 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:09:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting Sunday 11/5 -- Colo'ing In-Reply-To: <20061027200531.10868.qmail@web52508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061027200531.10868.qmail@web52508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: super, you're counted, too. On Oct 27, 2006, at 1:05 PM, ron wrote: > I'd like to participate in colo and other network care > projects. Maybe I can come nov 5, and will start > having more time after say dec 10... > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Fri Oct 27 21:58:53 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 21:58:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sf-lug] Fw: Ad for PHP programmer Message-ID: <20061028045853.70096.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hi guys. the 'legendary' company in question is atari. that info's not been shared with craigslist... ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: "Rudis, Alex" To: Lx Rudis Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:38:30 AM Subject: FW: Ad for PHP programmer -----Original Message----- From: Swanson, Tracy Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 8:15 AM To: Rudis, Alex Subject: FW: Ad for PHP programmer Alex: Below is the text for the ad Matt Kane is running on Craigslist in LA & SF. -Tracy -----Original Message----- From: Kane, Matt Sent: Mon 10/9/2006 8:15 AM To: Swanson, Tracy Subject: RE: Ad for PHP programmer OK...how about this: HELP (RE)CREATE A LEGEND A legendary video game company is seeking a supremely talented Web Programmer to help create our online future. You must be self-motivated, write sparkling clean code, and blow us away with your portfolio. This is a telecommuting contract position. Because of the need for occasional face-to-face meetings, preference will be given to applicants who live in the Bay Area [Los Angeles Area]. You must be fluent in PHP (including object-oriented PHP), MySQL, HTML/XHTML, JavaScript, and CSS. You must also have a deep understanding of Linux, be exploring the possibilities of AJAX and dynamic web pages, and be comfortable working in Dreamweaver. Extra points will be given for experience with Smarty Templates, C++, and/or Java. This company provides equal employment opportunities to all employees and applicants for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, creed, marital status, sexual orientation, ancestry, political belief, disability, or status as a Vietnam-era or special disabled veteran in accordance with applicable local, state and federal laws. In addition, our company prohibits discrimination on the basis of marital status and sexual orientation, in compliance with applicable state and local laws. Please send a cover letter, resume (including URLs with an explanation of your role), code samples (neatness counts), and your income requirement to webpro at lamaweb.com. ---------------- From amro at shaketech.com Mon Oct 30 13:23:20 2006 From: amro at shaketech.com (amro at shaketech.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:23:20 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] JOB AD: SENIOR LINUX SYS-ADMIN Message-ID: <20061030142320.29d5d9d158b6ea46d36c5b753690c3e9.7025fc4f08.wbe@email.secureserver.net> My company is trying to find a Senior Linux Sys-Admin.. if you guys/gals know of anyone, please send'm my way. -amro PAY- 90k-110l (d.o.e.) Send Resume in plain text - (NOT WORD or other PROPRIETARY FORMATS) Responsibilities: ? Work with a team of system administrators to support a large, complex site. ? Ability to perform day-to-day administration of mission critical linux systems ? Perform 24x7 oncall support for production systems on a rotating basis with other team members. Requirements: ? Senior level Unix (linux) System Administration experience. ? Experience supporting production systems in a heterogeneous, 24x7 environment ? Good understanding of tcp/ip, networking protocols and network troubleshooting skills. ? Ability to tune system parameters and recommend hardware upgrades/replacements where necessary to achieve optimal system performance ? Ability to write and maintain system management tools in common scripting languages (Perl, sh) ? Ability to manage Oracle database servers from a sysadmin-perspective. ? Experience performing colo work - racking, installing gear. ? Experience managing DNS, Apache, qmail, sendmail. ? Good written and verbal communication skills. Desired Skills: ? Hands-on experience with netapp or other SAN. ? Experience with Bea Tuxedo, or other middleware products ? Experience configuring BigIP and Cisco routers/switches ? Familiarity with common open source tools like Nagios, MRTG, Apache modules, CFEngine From ludo at epita.fr Tue Oct 31 08:37:37 2006 From: ludo at epita.fr (Ludo) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:37:37 +0100 Subject: [sf-lug] JOB AD: SENIOR LINUX SYS-ADMIN In-Reply-To: <20061030142320.29d5d9d158b6ea46d36c5b753690c3e9.7025fc4f08.wbe@email.secureserver.net> (amro@shaketech.com's message of "Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:23:20 -0700") References: <20061030142320.29d5d9d158b6ea46d36c5b753690c3e9.7025fc4f08.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <87mz7ctp9q.fsf@epita.fr> amro at shaketech.com writes: > My company is trying to find a Senior Linux Sys-Admin.. if you guys/gals > know of anyone, please send'm my way. I am very interested by this position. I have a big experience of storage systems, I work from more of one year on the storage and file system side of some top500 clusters in Europe. I have been a Unix fan for 8 years, my previous job involved hundreds of solaris servers, full time Debian user for 5 years, I like learn new system and new programming languages and also improve my skills in Unix, tasks' automation, high availability and scripting (bash, perl ...). Please find enclosed my resume in text format. Best Regards, Ludovic Ludovic FRANCOIS 4, rue Louis Lejeune 92 120 Montrouge - France Phone: +33 (0)6 20 67 05 42 E-mail: ludo at epita.fr skype: ludovic.francois SYSTEM NETWORK AND SECURITY ENGINEER Objective: A fulltime position involving expertise in these fields: Linux/Unix system administration, high-performance computing, computer and network security, automation scripts. PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE - June 2005 - Present, System Engineer at DataDirect Networks, Inc. SAN sharing system setup (software, hardware) in Europe in HPC and Broadcast company. Developed testing scripts. Analyzed performance results to identify bottlenecks. Compared performance of different file system protocols and system configurations. Involvment in the installation of Tera10, the biggest Supercomputer in Europe so far, 60 Tflops, 1 PetaByte. Installation and troubleshooting of SAN around europe in HPC and Broadcast company. Hardware involved: Brocade, Qlogic Fibre Channel Switch, Xyratech JBOD, DDN S2A controllers, Novascale Bull servers. Software involved: Solaris, Irix, Linux, Polyserve, CXFS, SNFS, GPFS, NFS, Lustre. - March 2004 - June 2005, System Engineer Unix at Thal?s Airborne System. Member of a 15 people team. On call Unix support of more of 300 stations, 10 UNIX domains on 3 sites (Brest, Pessac, Paris), implementation of automation scripts, internal communication tools and knowledge database. Supervisor : Mr Pierre Blas. Hardware involved: SUN, SGI, HP workstations, NetApp filers. Software involved: Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, Linux, NIS, NIS+, NFS, clearcase, flexlm, nagios, cvs, svn, bash, perl. - June - September 2004/2005, C/Unix teacher for second year students at EPITA. Software involved: NetBSD, Linux, gcc, gdb, cvs, svn. - January 2003 - March 2004, System Administrator at EUC. Specification, development and administration of the information system of Elektronik Utbildnings Center AB in Bromma (Sweden). 300 users on 3 sites (Bromma, Norrt?lje, ?kersberga) Supervisor : Mr Kemel Benali. Software involved: Linux, Apache, MySQL, Perl, bind, netfilter/iptables, OpenLDAP, OpenVPN, cvs, ssh, SpamAssassin, ClamAV, AMaViS, and Postfix. - September - December 2002, C/Unix teacher for first and second year students at EPITA. Software involved: NetBSD, Linux, gcc, gdb, cvs, svn, OpenLDAP, FreeRadius, OpenICAP, squid. - August 2002, SCO/Unix trainer at Karwell. Training done in Vienne for the agricultural cooperative of the Dauphin?. Software involved: SCO/Unix, FreeBSD. - October - December 2001, Training period at Mandrakesoft. Maintenance of various packages and development of applications of the Linux Mandrake Distribution. Supervisor : Mr Fr?d?ric Bastok. Hardware involved: IA64. Software involved: gcc, GtkFrameBuffer, rpm. - Summer 2000, Summer job at the "bocal" (system and network administration of EPITA). Involvment in the installation of two new machine rooms with hundreds computers in each one running NetBSD. Arrangement of the server room. Supervisor : Mr Nicolas Sadirac. EDUCATION 2005 Sun microsystems - Solaris system performance management (SA-400). 2000 - 2003 French Computer Science School EPITA (Ecole Pour l'Informatique et les Techniques Avanc?es) - System, Network and Security Department (equivalent to a Master's Degree in Computer Science) - Paris, France. 1998 - 2000 Scientific classes: two years intensive course in Mathematics and Physics (undergraduate level) leading to competitive exams for entrance into French national engineering schools - Arras, France. 1998 Mathematics and Physics "Baccalaur?at" (French secondary school diploma, equivalent to the "A" levels) - Arras, France. SKILLS Languages C/Unix, flex, Gtk, Perl, Perl/Tk, Bourne shell scripting, C++, Java, PHP, SQL. Operating systems FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Linux : system administration and kernel devel. Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, DOS, Windows 3.1/9x/NT/2000 : system administration. Administration apache, bind, nfsd, samba, sendmail, ftpd, cups, wireless network, iptables/netfilter, dhcpd, ldap, vpn, inn, snmpd, cvs, clearcase, jabber. Shared files systems gpfs, snfs, cxfs, polyserve. Security Involved in the development of the project vnet, programming of an OS fingerprinting tool. Programming Implementation of a shell, miscellaneous network programming clients and servers (NNTP, FTP, IRC). Text formatting tools LaTeX, HTML. OTHER ABILITIES Languages English, French (mother tongue). Sports Ski, tennis and table tennis. Driver License B (VL) obtained on March 18, 1998. -- Ludovic Francois +33 (0)6 20 67 05 42 From jim at well.com Wed Nov 1 08:08:41 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 08:08:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Baypiggies] Job Message-ID: <31252616174560d4a14ab9ae0dfb8f25@well.com> here's a summary of a python-plone programming job; i'll post it on the job page soon. Begin forwarded message: > From: Nicole Coleman > Date: October 31, 2006 2:39:59 PM PST > To: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: [Baypiggies] Job > > We are looking to hire a Python programmer on a six-month contract > (renewable) to work on a web application to support scholarly > collaboration. We have an?existing application built on Plone/Zope. > Part of the contract will involve extending the current implementation > in Plone -- using Python to write new features and modify existing > templates.? The other part is developing a custom web application in > Python, using the Plone instance as a prototype. > > Please contact me for details and/or forward this to anyone you know > who might be interested. > > Thank you. > > Nicole Coleman? cncoleman at stanford.edu > Technology Projects Manager, Stanford Humanities Center > Academic Technology Specialist Management Team, Stanford University > Libraries > http://shc.stanford.edu? > > 650.724.8107 > Jabber: cncoleman at hal.stanford.edu > AIM: shcnicole > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1665 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a_kleider at yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 11:31:13 2006 From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:31:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting Message-ID: <20061101193113.4931.qmail@web36605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is the Nov 5 meeting at the Java Cat? What is "colo?" alex at kleider.net ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) From paul at funkychimp.net Wed Nov 1 11:49:21 2006 From: paul at funkychimp.net (Paul Lancaster) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:49:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting In-Reply-To: <20061101193113.4931.qmail@web36605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Is the Nov 5 meeting at the Java Cat? -- Yes What is "colo?" -- glad you asked! Colo refers to co-location of your equipment in a secure data center. I'll be talking about the benefits of co-location and answering questions. You can see our co-lo here: www.coloserve.com Paul Lancaster, ColoServe, paul at funkychimp.net From sverma at sfsu.edu Wed Nov 1 11:59:06 2006 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 11:59:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] videos on free/opensource software Message-ID: <4548FC8A.8030002@sfsu.edu> Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of video titles about free and open source software? We have been asked to recommend titles for the library at SF State and I would like to stock it up with as many titles as possible. The two I have on the list are "Revolution OS" and "The Codebreakers" Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim at well.com Wed Nov 1 13:30:22 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 13:30:22 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] next meeting In-Reply-To: <20061101193113.4931.qmail@web36605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061101193113.4931.qmail@web36605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1236993b813a88d704c131475798ccb2@well.com> yes, sunday november 5 from 11 am to 1 PM or thereabouts. "colo" is short for "co-location" which is short for "co-locating your equipment at somebody else's place" with the expectation that they will provide UPS power, static IP addresses, on-site technicians (hopefully on a 24 hour basis), a cool interior, and fairly robust protection against earthquakes, storms, fire, and other hazards. On Nov 1, 2006, at 11:31 AM, Alex Kleider wrote: > Is the Nov 5 meeting at the Java Cat? > What is "colo?" > > alex at kleider.net > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _____________ > Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business > (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From johnlowry at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 14:50:27 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:50:27 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] videos on free/opensource software In-Reply-To: <4548FC8A.8030002@sfsu.edu> References: <4548FC8A.8030002@sfsu.edu> Message-ID: <454924B3.6060403@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 What about "Elephants Dram" that was made almost entirely on Oepn Source Software? Sameer Verma wrote: > Does anyone know of a comprehensive list of video titles about free and > open source software? We have been asked to recommend titles for the > library at SF State and I would like to stock it up with as many titles > as possible. > > The two I have on the list are "Revolution OS" and "The Codebreakers" > > Sameer > - -- John Lowry johnlowry at gmail.com (415) 341-4298 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFSSSyO75UGio03IQRA6s7AJ0WBPhnqhp9JEWoIn7pOcvTFc+ArQCfUEEU hLPo+hWtb6FJ9nn5xexZlEw= =akAc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 19:59:52 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:59:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Message-ID: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast are they popping these suckers out? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Wed Nov 1 20:44:49 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:44:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display Message-ID: <20061102044449.46853.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ...this weekend, down at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View. geek out! www.vintage.org should give you the 411 on this event. x From jim at well.com Wed Nov 1 20:59:46 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:59:46 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display In-Reply-To: <20061102044449.46853.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061102044449.46853.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: before or after Paul Lancaster talks about colocation this Sunday at 11 AM? ;-) On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > ...this weekend, down at the Computer History Museum > in Mountain View. geek out! > > www.vintage.org should give you the 411 on this event. > > > > x > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs at sonic.net Wed Nov 1 20:59:14 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:59:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display In-Reply-To: References: <20061102044449.46853.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061102045914.GA31522@sonic.net> On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 08:59:46PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > before or after Paul Lancaster talks about colocation > this Sunday at 11 AM? Yes. ;) (It's most-of-the-day, Saturday and Sunday both) -bill! From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 21:10:34 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 21:10:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become a legacy guy. --- vincent polite wrote: > Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast > are they popping these suckers out? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 07:34:13 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:34:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> The plan is something like 6-9 months, but it typically stays closer to 6. Like it or not, the main purpose of Fedora is to be a proving ground for new stuff destined for Red Hat's enterprise releases, so they want to release often. They had to get FC6 out now because it's essentially a public beta for RHEL5. I don't really think there's any way to be a Fedora user on the server side *except* in "legacy mode." FWIW, I'm running FC6 on my Dell D620 laptop. It's not flawless, but I carried over some configuration info from my previous OS (SLED 10), and I think that may be te reason for a couple of little glitches (evolution acting weird, strange font sizes, etc.). On the bright side, things like speed-stepping and suspending to memory are working quite well, and istanbul (desktop recording to ogg video) is fun to play with. Just my two cents. --Andy On 11/1/06, Tony wrote: > Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become > a legacy guy. > > --- vincent polite > wrote: > > > Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast > > are they popping these suckers out? > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Thu Nov 2 09:12:44 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:12:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: (swallowing hard...) what is speed-stepping? what is "suspending to memory"? thanks for info. On Nov 2, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Andy Grimm wrote: > The plan is something like 6-9 months, but it typically stays closer > to 6. Like it or not, the main purpose of Fedora is to be a proving > ground for new stuff destined for Red Hat's enterprise releases, so > they want to release often. They had to get FC6 out now because it's > essentially a public beta for RHEL5. I don't really think there's any > way to be a Fedora user on the server side *except* in "legacy mode." > > FWIW, I'm running FC6 on my Dell D620 laptop. It's not flawless, but > I carried over some configuration info from my previous OS (SLED 10), > and I think that may be te reason for a couple of little glitches > (evolution acting weird, strange font sizes, etc.). On the bright > side, things like speed-stepping and suspending to memory are working > quite well, and istanbul (desktop recording to ogg video) is fun to > play with. > > Just my two cents. > > --Andy > > On 11/1/06, Tony wrote: >> Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become >> a legacy guy. >> >> --- vincent polite >> wrote: >> >>> Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast >>> are they popping these suckers out? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From johnlowry at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 09:18:21 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:18:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: References: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454A285D.4090104@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 Speed-stepping, I believe, is where one has a processor that will speed and slow down depending on the demands placed on it, there by saving power on a battery. Suspend to memory is just that. Whatever is happening on the computer is recorded to just RAM and everything else in the machine shuts down. A small trickle of power is going to RAM until the computer is brought out of suspend mode. jim stockford wrote: > (swallowing hard...) > > what is speed-stepping? > > what is "suspending to memory"? > > thanks for info. > > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Andy Grimm wrote: > >> The plan is something like 6-9 months, but it typically stays closer >> to 6. Like it or not, the main purpose of Fedora is to be a proving >> ground for new stuff destined for Red Hat's enterprise releases, so >> they want to release often. They had to get FC6 out now because it's >> essentially a public beta for RHEL5. I don't really think there's any >> way to be a Fedora user on the server side *except* in "legacy mode." >> >> FWIW, I'm running FC6 on my Dell D620 laptop. It's not flawless, but >> I carried over some configuration info from my previous OS (SLED 10), >> and I think that may be te reason for a couple of little glitches >> (evolution acting weird, strange font sizes, etc.). On the bright >> side, things like speed-stepping and suspending to memory are working >> quite well, and istanbul (desktop recording to ogg video) is fun to >> play with. >> >> Just my two cents. >> >> --Andy >> >> On 11/1/06, Tony wrote: >>> Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become >>> a legacy guy. >>> >>> --- vincent polite >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast >>>> are they popping these suckers out? >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sf-lug mailing list >>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > - -- John Lowry johnlowry at gmail.com (415) 341-4298 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFSihcO75UGio03IQRA1PpAJ9zPv8xo0AV/5DxHal6L1MewTuLdQCcC8rh 9rDBjISU2p20IzXZen16N9A= =PtFR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 09:25:20 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:25:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <6d4878ee0611020924o442a7c2fy6bbdb603f660c66@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> <6d4878ee0611020924o442a7c2fy6bbdb603f660c66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611020925qbebb13j98392203d3a51af6@mail.gmail.com> oops, I meant to send this to the whole list... On 11/2/06, Andy Grimm wrote: > Speed-stepping is the feature in "Centrino" laptops that allows them > to conserve battery life by slowing down the CPU ("under-clocking", I > suppose you could call it). > > Suspending to memory essentially allows you to close the lid of your > laptop and have it power down everything but RAM, so you can open it > up again (after hours of being unplugged) and start where you left > off. I rarely reboot my laptop anymore, even when I fly across the > country or take a long car trip. > > Believe it or not, some people are even using speed-stepping on > servers now to conserve power. I imagine the suspending to memory > could work, too. If you have a UPS that can signal your server, that > could trigger a suspend, so you don't have a hard crash. A UPS could > power RAM for hours rather than powering the whole machine for > minutes. > > --Andy > > On 11/2/06, jim stockford wrote: > > > > (swallowing hard...) > > > > what is speed-stepping? > > > > what is "suspending to memory"? > > > > thanks for info. > > > > > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Andy Grimm wrote: > > > > > The plan is something like 6-9 months, but it typically stays closer > > > to 6. Like it or not, the main purpose of Fedora is to be a proving > > > ground for new stuff destined for Red Hat's enterprise releases, so > > > they want to release often. They had to get FC6 out now because it's > > > essentially a public beta for RHEL5. I don't really think there's any > > > way to be a Fedora user on the server side *except* in "legacy mode." > > > > > > FWIW, I'm running FC6 on my Dell D620 laptop. It's not flawless, but > > > I carried over some configuration info from my previous OS (SLED 10), > > > and I think that may be te reason for a couple of little glitches > > > (evolution acting weird, strange font sizes, etc.). On the bright > > > side, things like speed-stepping and suspending to memory are working > > > quite well, and istanbul (desktop recording to ogg video) is fun to > > > play with. > > > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > --Andy > > > > > > On 11/1/06, Tony wrote: > > >> Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become > > >> a legacy guy. > > >> > > >> --- vincent polite > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast > > >>> are they popping these suckers out? > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> sf-lug mailing list > > >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> sf-lug mailing list > > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sf-lug mailing list > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > > > > From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 09:25:20 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:25:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <6d4878ee0611020924o442a7c2fy6bbdb603f660c66@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061102035952.6054.qmail@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <6d4878ee0611020734l7312abcaqb62c970aa30faa2e@mail.gmail.com> <6d4878ee0611020924o442a7c2fy6bbdb603f660c66@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611020925qbebb13j98392203d3a51af6@mail.gmail.com> oops, I meant to send this to the whole list... On 11/2/06, Andy Grimm wrote: > Speed-stepping is the feature in "Centrino" laptops that allows them > to conserve battery life by slowing down the CPU ("under-clocking", I > suppose you could call it). > > Suspending to memory essentially allows you to close the lid of your > laptop and have it power down everything but RAM, so you can open it > up again (after hours of being unplugged) and start where you left > off. I rarely reboot my laptop anymore, even when I fly across the > country or take a long car trip. > > Believe it or not, some people are even using speed-stepping on > servers now to conserve power. I imagine the suspending to memory > could work, too. If you have a UPS that can signal your server, that > could trigger a suspend, so you don't have a hard crash. A UPS could > power RAM for hours rather than powering the whole machine for > minutes. > > --Andy > > On 11/2/06, jim stockford wrote: > > > > (swallowing hard...) > > > > what is speed-stepping? > > > > what is "suspending to memory"? > > > > thanks for info. > > > > > > On Nov 2, 2006, at 7:34 AM, Andy Grimm wrote: > > > > > The plan is something like 6-9 months, but it typically stays closer > > > to 6. Like it or not, the main purpose of Fedora is to be a proving > > > ground for new stuff destined for Red Hat's enterprise releases, so > > > they want to release often. They had to get FC6 out now because it's > > > essentially a public beta for RHEL5. I don't really think there's any > > > way to be a Fedora user on the server side *except* in "legacy mode." > > > > > > FWIW, I'm running FC6 on my Dell D620 laptop. It's not flawless, but > > > I carried over some configuration info from my previous OS (SLED 10), > > > and I think that may be te reason for a couple of little glitches > > > (evolution acting weird, strange font sizes, etc.). On the bright > > > side, things like speed-stepping and suspending to memory are working > > > quite well, and istanbul (desktop recording to ogg video) is fun to > > > play with. > > > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > --Andy > > > > > > On 11/1/06, Tony wrote: > > >> Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become > > >> a legacy guy. > > >> > > >> --- vincent polite > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast > > >>> are they popping these suckers out? > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> sf-lug mailing list > > >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> sf-lug mailing list > > >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sf-lug mailing list > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > > > > From al.eridani at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 09:50:38 2006 From: al.eridani at gmail.com (Al Eridani) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 09:50:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Prevalent wireless standard in hotels and laptop card recommendations? Message-ID: Some hotels now don't offer Internet access through an ethernet cable socket anymore; instead, they provide wireless access. My laptop (old) doesn't have any wireless capabilities, so I'm thinking of getting a PCMCIA card for travelling. Any recommendations where to buy one here in San Francisco? Places to avoid? Do you know what wireless standards is the typical hotel most likely to support? Thanks! From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 13:43:01 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:43:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To me it seems a bit overwelhming. I look at what Jim has gone threw to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be competent and employable with it. Daunting. Besides there are so many packages that you have to wade through and chuck...Daunting. Slow down, or have a way you can install the basics. Then install what you need to learn them. Tony wrote: Way too fast. Whether I like it or not, I have become a legacy guy. --- vincent polite wrote: > Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast > are they popping these suckers out? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 2 14:25:42 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:25:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061102222542.85026.qmail@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> DOH! ok, ok. i don't read my email, i just scan it. the truth is now out. :P ...still gonna be a cool event though. and i'm making sure my saturday is free so that i can be there. x --- jim stockford wrote: > > before or after Paul Lancaster talks about > colocation > this Sunday at 11 AM? > ;-) > > On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > > > ...this weekend, down at the Computer History > Museum > > in Mountain View. geek out! > > > > www.vintage.org should give you the 411 on this > event. > > > > > > > > x > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 16:03:34 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:03:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display In-Reply-To: <20061102222542.85026.qmail@web82314.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061103000334.41661.qmail@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Double DOH!!...its sunday!! Lx Rudis wrote: DOH! ok, ok. i don't read my email, i just scan it. the truth is now out. :P ...still gonna be a cool event though. and i'm making sure my saturday is free so that i can be there. x --- jim stockford wrote: > > before or after Paul Lancaster talks about > colocation > this Sunday at 11 AM? > ;-) > > On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > > > ...this weekend, down at the Computer History > Museum > > in Mountain View. geek out! > > > > www.vintage.org should give you the 411 on this > event. > > > > > > > > x > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kkeller at speakeasy.net Thu Nov 2 14:57:42 2006 From: kkeller at speakeasy.net (Keith Keller) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:57:42 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061102225742.GB18109@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 01:43:01PM -0800, vincent polite wrote: > To me it seems a bit overwelhming. I look at what Jim has gone threw to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be competent and employable with it. Daunting. Besides there are so many packages that you have to wade through and chuck...Daunting. Slow down, or have a way you can install the basics. Then install what you need to learn them. You don't have to track every distro release in order to teach yourself. In fact, I'd suggest the opposite--pick a distro that has a good security update policy, and stay with that version until you feel comfortable moving up. There's no compelling reason to install the latest version du jour just for the sake of being up to date. Ignore the fast release cycle, and you'll probably learn better. (FWIW, most distros don't have such a fast release cycle anyway. My favourite, Slackware, for example, has had four releases from 2004-2006.) --keith -- kkeller at speakeasy.net From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Thu Nov 2 17:02:53 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:02:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] old computers on display In-Reply-To: <20061103000334.41661.qmail@web82806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061103010253.20881.qmail@web82312.mail.mud.yahoo.com> look, i'm able to warp time and space, ok? your mere mortal concerns do not affect me. :D --- vincent polite wrote: > Double DOH!!...its sunday!! > > Lx Rudis wrote: DOH! > > ok, ok. i don't read my email, i just scan it. the > truth is now out. :P > > ...still gonna be a cool event though. and i'm > making > sure my saturday is free so that i can be there. > > x > > --- jim stockford wrote: > > > > > before or after Paul Lancaster talks about > > colocation > > this Sunday at 11 AM? > > ;-) > > > > On Nov 1, 2006, at 8:44 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > > > > > ...this weekend, down at the Computer History > > Museum > > > in Mountain View. geek out! > > > > > > www.vintage.org should give you the 411 on this > > event. > > > > > > > > > > > > x > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > sf-lug mailing list > > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 2 17:15:00 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:15:00 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Prevalent wireless standard in hotels and laptop card recommendations? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Al Eridani (al.eridani at gmail.com): > Some hotels now don't offer Internet access through an ethernet cable > socket anymore; instead, they provide wireless access. > > My laptop (old) doesn't have any wireless capabilities, so I'm > thinking of getting a PCMCIA card for travelling. Any recommendations > where to buy one here in San Francisco? Places to avoid? Do you know > what wireless standards is the typical hotel most likely to support? Just a data point: The glory of my old Lucent Orinoco Gold PCMCIA 802.11b card is that every OS has good drivers for it, it's bog-standard, and it'll talk to any access point I've ever had to deal with. (Thank Ghu, WPA and such aren't yet being mandated anywhere I've yet encountered.) Where would I get another one? Probably eBay or half.com. Would I buy a new card in a shop? Hell no. -- Cheers, Accordions don't play Lady of Spain; Rick Moen _people_ play Lady of Spain. rick at linuxmafia.com From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 2 18:02:25 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061103020225.GB26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > To me it seems a bit overwelhming. I look at what Jim has gone threw > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed and tried out? -- Cheers, A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will Rick Moen annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright rick at linuxmafia.com From jim at well.com Thu Nov 2 18:55:09 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:55:09 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] RoR Developers, San Francisco, CA | 70-110k Message-ID: Short and to the point: > From: "Beau Gould" > Date: November 2, 2006 2:17:10 PM PST > To: > Subject: [JOB] RoR Developers, San Francisco, CA | 70-110k > > RoR Developers, San Francisco, CA | 70-110k > > My San Francisco client provides relevant content, advertising and > technology solutions for consumers, advertisers and publishers. Their > 180+ vertical search sites are where consumers look for what they need, > offering essential search results and web tools to find, save and share > articles. > > They are looking for experienced Ruby on Rails Developers (Linux) > > Benefits include Medical, Dental, Vision, Life, Employee Stock Purchase > Plan, 401k, and more. > > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to > beau at open-source-staffing.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1175 bytes Desc: not available URL: From johnlowry at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 18:51:31 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:51:31 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061103020225.GB26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061102051034.34082.qmail@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20061103020225.GB26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <454AAEB3.8010607@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: RIPEMD160 I have heard good reports on this card, but it might a bit overkill. http://www.ubnt.com/super_range_cardbus.php4 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > >> To me it seems a bit overwelhming. I look at what Jim has gone threw >> to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be >> competent and employable with it. Daunting. > > Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed > and tried out? > - -- John Lowry johnlowry at gmail.com (415) 341-4298 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFSq6zO75UGio03IQRA70KAJ9WgfqimiaJPZdpPo0AmL1KnqtLugCfdC/f ZuK9xAoPtp+dvpmebhtFLLc= =eAwI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jim at well.com Thu Nov 2 18:59:44 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:59:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I call him "poor jim", but anyway..., yes--the phrase is "drinking from a fire hose". drink early and often to work in the industry. On Nov 2, 2006, at 1:43 PM, vincent polite wrote: > To me it seems a bit overwelhming. I look at what Jim has gone threw > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Besides there are so many > packages that you have to wade through and chuck...Daunting. Slow > down, or have a way you can install the basics. Then install what you > need to learn them. > > Tony wrote: >> a legacy guy. >> >> --- vincent polite >> wrote: >> >> > Geezz..I just read Fedora Core 6 is out. How fast >> > are they popping these suckers out? >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > sf-lug mailing list >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1102 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 2 19:10:44 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:10:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: References: <20061102214301.16198.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061103031044.GD26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > yes--the phrase is "drinking from a fire hose". That reaction is sort of like walking into the refrigerated storage at Original Joe's on Taylor and crying out "Damn! There's no _way_ I'm going to be able to eat all of that steak." True. You won't. But you should, nonetheless, go back you your nice cushy booth, order a dinner, and enjoy. A few weeks later, if you feel like it, come back with friends and try a different dish. In other words, it's really _silly_ to be daunted by too many distributions with too much updates. Sorry, that's just a really poor and transparent excuse for remaining on the sidewalk, pressing your nose against the store window. What you really want to do is just pick a distribution (it doesn't make a huge difference which one), try it out, and live with it for a few weeks. After a few weeks to a month of living with its use day-to-day, if you remain curious, blow it away and try a different one. There's nothing wrong with just kicking the tires, but eventually you might want to get around to the driving part. From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 19:26:08 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:26:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Prevalent wireless standard in hotels and laptop card recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611021926i38fc0867pd5d328e54415edf5@mail.gmail.com> I agree whole-heartedly; I have a old dog of a laptop that I still occasionally use; it has a dead battery & dead hard drive (I boot a live cd), but the orinoco silver still works like a champ after many years. Sure it's 802.11b, but in hotels that's all you need. Of course, I'd recommend the Gold as rick did; I got the silver because it was significantly cheaper years ago. --andy On 11/2/06, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Al Eridani (al.eridani at gmail.com): > > > Some hotels now don't offer Internet access through an ethernet cable > > socket anymore; instead, they provide wireless access. > > > > My laptop (old) doesn't have any wireless capabilities, so I'm > > thinking of getting a PCMCIA card for travelling. Any recommendations > > where to buy one here in San Francisco? Places to avoid? Do you know > > what wireless standards is the typical hotel most likely to support? > > Just a data point: The glory of my old Lucent Orinoco Gold PCMCIA > 802.11b card is that every OS has good drivers for it, it's bog-standard, > and it'll talk to any access point I've ever had to deal with. (Thank > Ghu, WPA and such aren't yet being mandated anywhere I've yet > encountered.) > > Where would I get another one? Probably eBay or half.com. > > Would I buy a new card in a shop? Hell no. > > -- > Cheers, Accordions don't play Lady of > Spain; > Rick Moen _people_ play Lady of Spain. > rick at linuxmafia.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 19:26:08 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:26:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Prevalent wireless standard in hotels and laptop card recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611021926i38fc0867pd5d328e54415edf5@mail.gmail.com> I agree whole-heartedly; I have a old dog of a laptop that I still occasionally use; it has a dead battery & dead hard drive (I boot a live cd), but the orinoco silver still works like a champ after many years. Sure it's 802.11b, but in hotels that's all you need. Of course, I'd recommend the Gold as rick did; I got the silver because it was significantly cheaper years ago. --andy On 11/2/06, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Al Eridani (al.eridani at gmail.com): > > > Some hotels now don't offer Internet access through an ethernet cable > > socket anymore; instead, they provide wireless access. > > > > My laptop (old) doesn't have any wireless capabilities, so I'm > > thinking of getting a PCMCIA card for travelling. Any recommendations > > where to buy one here in San Francisco? Places to avoid? Do you know > > what wireless standards is the typical hotel most likely to support? > > Just a data point: The glory of my old Lucent Orinoco Gold PCMCIA > 802.11b card is that every OS has good drivers for it, it's bog-standard, > and it'll talk to any access point I've ever had to deal with. (Thank > Ghu, WPA and such aren't yet being mandated anywhere I've yet > encountered.) > > Where would I get another one? Probably eBay or half.com. > > Would I buy a new card in a shop? Hell no. > > -- > Cheers, Accordions don't play Lady of > Spain; > Rick Moen _people_ play Lady of Spain. > rick at linuxmafia.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 19:26:08 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:26:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Prevalent wireless standard in hotels and laptop card recommendations? In-Reply-To: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061103011500.GZ26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611021926i38fc0867pd5d328e54415edf5@mail.gmail.com> I agree whole-heartedly; I have a old dog of a laptop that I still occasionally use; it has a dead battery & dead hard drive (I boot a live cd), but the orinoco silver still works like a champ after many years. Sure it's 802.11b, but in hotels that's all you need. Of course, I'd recommend the Gold as rick did; I got the silver because it was significantly cheaper years ago. --andy On 11/2/06, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Al Eridani (al.eridani at gmail.com): > > > Some hotels now don't offer Internet access through an ethernet cable > > socket anymore; instead, they provide wireless access. > > > > My laptop (old) doesn't have any wireless capabilities, so I'm > > thinking of getting a PCMCIA card for travelling. Any recommendations > > where to buy one here in San Francisco? Places to avoid? Do you know > > what wireless standards is the typical hotel most likely to support? > > Just a data point: The glory of my old Lucent Orinoco Gold PCMCIA > 802.11b card is that every OS has good drivers for it, it's bog-standard, > and it'll talk to any access point I've ever had to deal with. (Thank > Ghu, WPA and such aren't yet being mandated anywhere I've yet > encountered.) > > Where would I get another one? Probably eBay or half.com. > > Would I buy a new card in a shop? Hell no. > > -- > Cheers, Accordions don't play Lady of > Spain; > Rick Moen _people_ play Lady of Spain. > rick at linuxmafia.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs at sonic.net Fri Nov 3 14:08:21 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:08:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] [fwd] Season of Usability - Call for Mentors Message-ID: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> ----- Forwarded message from Ellen Reitmayr ----- Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:45:12 -0800 (PST) From: Ellen Reitmayr Subject: [sprint] Season of Usability - Call for Mentors To: sprint at flossusability.org Reply-To: sprint at flossusability.org Hi, in the scope of OpenUsability we will soon offer a number of sponsored student projects that aim at getting students of usability, user interface design or information architecture into Open Source projects. It's modeled after the Google Summer of Code, and we even gave it a similar name: "Season of Usability" ;-) http://www.openusability.org/studentprojects/ We are still looking for usability mentors who are willing to coach a student. The time frame of the project will be January to March 2006, (while announcements should be sent out as soon as possible). You are free to choose any OSS project and define a usability task in agreement with the developers. Maybe you started to work on a project during one of sprints and would like to continue the work? Mentoring a student would be a good way to get work done while keeping the load low for yourself. Otherwise we can offer you a number of interesting OSS projects registered on OpenUsability. To give you an idea of what such a student project might be like, have a look at our pilot project: http://www.openusability.org/studentprojects/archive/2006-08_studentprojects-gimp.html We would be happy to welcome usability mentors from the FLOSS usability community and make this a joint effort of the two groups! For further information on alternative OSS projects, the procedure and dates, please contact me or reply to this list. Thank you, Ellen -- Ellen Reitmayr Usability Engineer www.openusability.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 3 14:47:02 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:47:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Everyone: A very interesting development. Are we moving towards a unified Windows-Linux OS in the future? *** Microsoft, Novell partner on historic Windows, Linux interoperability deal By John Fontana, NetworkWorld.com, 11/02/06 Microsoft and Novell Thursday announced a wide ranging business and technology partnership designed to make it easier for companies to run, integrate and manage Linux and Windows in their environments while steering clear of patent and intellectual property concerns. The companies said an agreement not to assert patent and intellectual property rights would run through 2012. The agreement applies to independent and other open source developers who have often feared patent suits from Microsoft. Financial terms of the partnership were not announced, but both companies said they will make upfront payments in exchange for a release from any potential liability for use of each other?s patented intellectual property. On the technology side, the agreement focused on virtualization, Web services for managing physical and virtual servers and the integration of document formats specifically in Microsoft?s Office and Novell?s OpenOffice. ?I think this will make our respective products more attractive to customers,? said Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer during a press conference in San Francisco where he was joined by Novell CEO Ronald Hovsepian. While the two thanked each other for their respective cooperation, they repeatedly said the agreement was hammered out under the urging from customers who desperately needed interoperability for their mixed environments. ?It is great to see these leaders combining to solve key compatibility issues,? said Randy Cowen, the CTO of Goldman Sachs, who appeared on stage with Ballmer and Hovsepian. Microsoft said it will provide a covenant not to assert its patent rights against customers who have purchased SuSE Linux Enterprise Server or other covered Novell products. Meanwhile, Novell will provide an identical covenant to customers who have a licensed version of Windows or other covered Microsoft products. ?This new collaborative relationship was only possible with the intellectual property bridge we built between the proprietary and open source model,? said Ballmer. He added that the deal protects Microsoft?s intellectual property while ensuring that the open source development community can continue to innovate. Microsoft general counsel Brad Smith said the companies worked for nearly six months to hammer out the complex legal agreement. ?We had to do something no one has done before. We will ensure that every customer that purchases a subscription for SuSE Enterprise Linux will get not only service and support from Novell but a patent covenant from Microsoft.? As part of the partnership, Microsoft will not assert its patents against individual noncommercial open source developers, nor will it assert its patents against individual contributors to OpenSuSE.org whose code is included in the SuSE Linux Enterprise platform, including both the server and desktop version. In addition, Microsoft said it will recommend SuSE Linux Enterprise for customers who want Windows and Linux products. Microsoft said it will distribute 70,000 coupons for SuSE Linux Enterprise Server maintenance and support, so that customers can benefit from the use of an interoperable version of Linux. In terms of interoperability, the two said they would jointly develop a virtualization offering for both Linux and Windows that would allow either to be the host or guest operating system. In terms of management, the two said they would make it easier for users to manage Windows and SuSE Linux environments, including making it easier to federate Microsoft?s Active Directory and Novell?s eDirectory. Those platforms form the core of each vendor?s identity management platforms. While the pair did not go into specifics, it is clear the interoperability will happen between Novell?s ZenWorks management platform and Microsoft?s family of System Center products. In the area of document format compatibility the two will focus on interoperability between Microsoft?s Office and OpenOffice, which ships with Novell?s SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop software. They also will focus on developing translators to improve interoperability between OpenXML from Microsoft and the Open Document Format, which is widely embraced in the open source community. In addition, Microsoft said it will work with Novell and contribute to several open source software projects, including those focused on Office file formats and Web services management. The two new partners plan to create a joint research facility staffed by Microsoft and Novell technical experts who can build and test software and work with customers. The agreement won praise from other vendors across the industry including Intel, AMD, IBM, HP, Dell, HP, and SAP. Reference: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2006/110206-reports-microsoft-novell-to-strike.html From nbs at sonic.net Fri Nov 3 14:51:32 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 14:51:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061103225132.GA28191@sonic.net> On Fri, Nov 03, 2006 at 02:47:02PM -0800, Tony wrote: > Hi Everyone: > > A very interesting development. Are we moving towards > a unified Windows-Linux OS in the future? God I hope not. They call it Windows >X^P for a reason. -bill! (always missing KDE when he's stuck in Windows) From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 3 17:24:24 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:24:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Tony (vze2jy85 at yahoo.com): > Hi Everyone: > > A very interesting development. Are we moving towards > a unified Windows-Linux OS in the future? A lot of very shallow IT news coverage is saying that. My take: Novell has just agreed to pay protection money through 2012 to evade being sued for patent violation, leaving the rest of the Linux community to face Microsoft's latest anticompetitive weapon of choice without their assistance. The rest of it's PR fluff. To see further analysis, see Groklaw. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 3 17:55:29 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:55:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061104015529.GI26620@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > My take: Novell has just agreed to pay protection money through 2012 > to evade being sued for patent violation, leaving the rest of the > Linux community to face Microsoft's latest anticompetitive weapon of > choice without their assistance. The rest of it's PR fluff. A friend just pointed out John Paczkowski's comment at "Good Morning Silicon Valley", which as usual is dead-on and utterly priceless: Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: nobody ever benefits from a Microsoft partnership except Microsoft! http://blogs.siliconvalley.com/gmsv/2006/11/ha_ha_you_fool_.html Another friend's reply, when someone else on a mailing list asked what it meant: "The Molotov - von Ribbentrop Pact of the 21st Century. You're welcome." Anyhow, "industry alliances" are usually 98%+ PR fluff. From alamozzz at yahoo.com Sat Nov 4 00:21:11 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 00:21:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061104082111.7368.qmail@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> Microsoft's .net is their method of controlling web services. Novell's project MONO (acquired from Zimian) was an insurance policy against that; now Microsoft will have some (if not all) control over it. I wonder how the Zimian people at Novell feel about this. I've always seen the Zimian people as being closely aligned with FSF; maybe this isn't so. There are other good distros, that will pick up the slack now that Novell is suspect. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Tony (vze2jy85 at yahoo.com): > Hi Everyone: > > A very interesting development. Are we moving towards > a unified Windows-Linux OS in the future? A lot of very shallow IT news coverage is saying that. My take: Novell has just agreed to pay protection money through 2012 to evade being sued for patent violation, leaving the rest of the Linux community to face Microsoft's latest anticompetitive weapon of choice without their assistance. The rest of it's PR fluff. To see further analysis, see Groklaw. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 4 01:32:25 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 01:32:25 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061104082111.7368.qmail@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> <20061104082111.7368.qmail@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061104093225.GK26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com): > Microsoft's .net is their method of controlling web services. Novell's > project MONO (acquired from Ximian) was an insurance policy against > that; now Microsoft will have some (if not all) control over it. The Novell Beagle file-search utility is built on the Mono runtime, and also Novell ZenWorks, Novell iFolder, and others.[1] It's always been suspected that Mono is perilously at risk from Microsoft patent encumbrances, and the Ximian/GNOME people were repeatedly warned about this by experts, but elected to ignore that advice. So, as I said, "protection" money. > I've always seen the Ximian people as being closely aligned with FSF; > maybe this isn't so. Actually, FSF was prominent among the many parties that warned de Icaza and the Ximian/GNOME folks about the patent-litigation risk they were recklessly courting. [1] Partial list: http://www.mono-project.com/Companies_Using_Mono#Who_uses_Mono.3F From jim at well.com Sat Nov 4 09:29:55 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:29:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] reminder--sf-lug meeting: colocation Message-ID: Tomorrow, Sunday, 11/5, at the Javacat on Geary at 20th, from 11 AM till 1 PM: Paul Lancaster will talk on colocation in general and ServePath in particular and answer questions. At the meeting we can arrange a tour of the Spear Street facility. If you're interested in helping SF-LUG by being a back-up person who may occasionally have to go to the Spear Street location to work on our machine, please come to this meeting (or at least let me know you're interested so I can summarize). Note your name must be on an approved list to access the building to work on our machine. I have not yet gotten around to building the box, though plans (thanks to Bobbi, Rick, Nathan, and others) are fairly well along--partitions, RAID 1 for most partitions.... What's left to plan is what software to install (and where/how, I plan to add UseMod wiki) and security/hardening means (if no one suggests otherwise, I'll use Bastille and hope for the best). All my plans are subject to criticism--i'm used to it. From alamozzz at yahoo.com Sat Nov 4 11:00:11 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:00:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061104093225.GK26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061104190011.90283.qmail@web50507.mail.yahoo.com> Rick Moen wrote:The Novell Beagle file-search utility is built on the Mono runtime, and also Novell ZenWorks, Novell iFolder, and others. I thought it strange when I noticed Banshee uses Mono. But it makes sense considering they are apparently planning on using Banshee as a component for an online music store. They want to use the .net stuff for e-commerce. Novell recently licensed the audio CODEC RealPlayer acquired from Microsoft as part of the anti-trust settlement. So it looks like Novell may try to get into the online music business, perhaps as a proxy or partner of Microsoft. I'd like to see an open source project, with resources behind it, to create high-quality audio and video formats and protocols, as alternatives to QuickTime, WMA, etc. - Adrien --------------------------------- We have the perfect Group for you. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jturner at nonzerosums.org Sat Nov 4 11:35:20 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:35:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] reminder--sf-lug meeting: colocation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <12545A9A-24BB-44C9-B6F3-AACC56DCE136@nonzerosums.org> Wow -- has it been a month already? I'll be there tomorrow but I'll take this opportunity to sign up as a back-up person to you, Jim. And I mean in general, for the SF-LUG website and the potential new colo box. But what does that mean, again?? ;-p I've lost track of the projects and potential projects that may/not be in progress around the group. Hell, I'm guilty of recommending a few at the last meeting and not following up... until now. For those that remember me mumbling about a book sharing website, it was http:// www.bookcrossing.com/ that I was thinking of. Anyways, I'll reserve the rest of my questions for tomorrow. -- jt On Nov 4, 2006, at 9:29 AM, jim stockford wrote: > > Tomorrow, Sunday, 11/5, at the Javacat on Geary > at 20th, from 11 AM till 1 PM: > Paul Lancaster will talk on colocation in general > and ServePath in particular and answer questions. > At the meeting we can arrange a tour of the Spear > Street facility. > > If you're interested in helping SF-LUG by being a > back-up person who may occasionally have to go > to the Spear Street location to work on our machine, > please come to this meeting (or at least let me know > you're interested so I can summarize). Note your > name must be on an approved list to access the > building to work on our machine. > I have not yet gotten around to building the box, > though plans (thanks to Bobbi, Rick, Nathan, and > others) are fairly well along--partitions, RAID 1 for > most partitions.... What's left to plan is what software > to install (and where/how, I plan to add UseMod wiki) > and security/hardening means (if no one suggests > otherwise, I'll use Bastille and hope for the best). All > my plans are subject to criticism--i'm used to it. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Sat Nov 4 18:08:03 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:08:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] reminder--sf-lug meeting: colocation In-Reply-To: <12545A9A-24BB-44C9-B6F3-AACC56DCE136@nonzerosums.org> References: <12545A9A-24BB-44C9-B6F3-AACC56DCE136@nonzerosums.org> Message-ID: <2261691c6be884fb6b39bd984404bc34@well.com> thanks for the bookcrossing.com recommend and for (bwahaha) volunteering. the colo part is occasionally to go to Spear Street in the event the machine itself needs attention (new drive or something). the remote admin part is making sure the filesystems aren't full, backups work, no evil monkey (escept for our own em) has invaded, etc. how's your HTML? Python? Plone...? On Nov 4, 2006, at 11:35 AM, Jason Turner wrote: > Wow -- has it been a month already? > > I'll be there tomorrow but I'll take this opportunity to sign up as a > back-up person to you, Jim. And I mean in general, for the SF-LUG > website and the potential new colo box. But what does that mean, > again?? > > ;-p > > I've lost track of the projects and potential projects that may/not > be in progress around the group. Hell, I'm guilty of recommending a > few at the last meeting and not following up... until now. For those > that remember me mumbling about a book sharing website, it was http:// > www.bookcrossing.com/ that I was thinking of. > > Anyways, I'll reserve the rest of my questions for tomorrow. > > -- > jt > > > On Nov 4, 2006, at 9:29 AM, jim stockford wrote: > >> >> Tomorrow, Sunday, 11/5, at the Javacat on Geary >> at 20th, from 11 AM till 1 PM: >> Paul Lancaster will talk on colocation in general >> and ServePath in particular and answer questions. >> At the meeting we can arrange a tour of the Spear >> Street facility. >> >> If you're interested in helping SF-LUG by being a >> back-up person who may occasionally have to go >> to the Spear Street location to work on our machine, >> please come to this meeting (or at least let me know >> you're interested so I can summarize). Note your >> name must be on an approved list to access the >> building to work on our machine. >> I have not yet gotten around to building the box, >> though plans (thanks to Bobbi, Rick, Nathan, and >> others) are fairly well along--partitions, RAID 1 for >> most partitions.... What's left to plan is what software >> to install (and where/how, I plan to add UseMod wiki) >> and security/hardening means (if no one suggests >> otherwise, I'll use Bastille and hope for the best). All >> my plans are subject to criticism--i'm used to it. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From cathjone at eskimo.com Mon Nov 6 10:35:15 2006 From: cathjone at eskimo.com (Catherine Jones) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 10:35:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <20061104015529.GI26620@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> <20061104015529.GI26620@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <454F8063.7090801@eskimo.com> Thanks, Rick, for the pointer to groklaw.net for information on the Microsoft-Novell pact. Reading through Friday's discussion there http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103073628401 broought up a lot of questions for me about both Linux community strategy and individual FOSS developer choices (libraries, patents, licensing agreements, et cetera). How do we best defend open-source software against anti-competitive misuse of patents? These are very old (and, of course, potentially inflammatory) questions, but I think it might be useful to have a semi-planned discussion of them at one of the future sf-lug meetings. I know that I (for one) need to bring myself up to date on some of the issues. Are there people in sf-lug with special knowledge to share in this area? Should some of us take on the task of reporting back on particular topics - e.g., versions of the GPL or the risks (real, perceived, or wildly speculative) of litigation against particular open source projects? Well, just a thought.... Catherine From bill at wards.net Sun Nov 5 02:30:26 2006 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 02:30:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] PenLUG meeting THIS WEEK on Thursday Nov 9 - David Weekly, speaker Message-ID: <3d2fe1780611050230n620c0649p4f7a64bf2256497a@mail.gmail.com> Remember, due to the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, we are moving to the second Thursday for November and December. So our next meeting is this week, on Thursday November 9!! You are invited. RSVP is not required, but so we can get an idea of how many people to expect please send mail to rsvp at penlug.org to let us know if you are planning to attend. For full details about the group, as well as directions to the meeting, visit www.penlug.org. Free pizza, hors d'ouvres and soft drinks, courtesy of Open Country, will be provided. Free review copies of books from O'Reilly, Prentice-Hall, APress, and/or other publishers, will be given out as door prizes. Be on time for the eary bird drawing. Date: Thursday, November 9th, 2006 Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 Speaker: David Weekly Topic: Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control: or How Silicon Valley Got Its Groove Back. To some, the bubble in Silicon Valley feels a little bit like a terrifying repeat of the dot-communism of the late 90's. But in reality the Valley is more closely mirroring its roots of the 70's with more garage hackery and late-night codeathons than blowout parties and IPOs. The tools for building useful products have become so cheap and easy that people are running services for hundreds of thousands of users as hobbies. Lower costs mean less capital requirements; a boon for smaller investors and a bane for VCs. Steep Sarbanes-Oxley requirements and a skittish public market have dried up IPOs for early liquidity events and the relatively small number of large acquirers mean that most of the "easy exit" money is gone. At the same time, increasing customer sophistication and the proliferation of payment solutions make it easier than ever to drive revenues from customers and build a real business. These trends represent steps towards a healthy and sustainable ecosystem of hackery in Silicon Valley, leveraging college students, Open Source, and low-cost hosting to blitz the Internet with an astounding array of low-cost, high-impact ideas. David Weekly is the founder and CEO of PBwiki, the world's largest wiki host, with over 120,000 groups on board. He graduated as a President Scholar from Stanford in 2000 with a BS in Computer Science and has worked for such institutions as Harvard Physics, MIT Lincoln Labs, Stanford Graphics, atWeb, Legato, and There.com. David wrote the first layman's level description of MP3 in early 1997, reverse engineered the Napster protocol in an evening, and was a finalist in the ACM International Programming Competition. David lives in a Hillsborough mansion with five others and throws periodic all-night hackathons called SuperHappyDevHouse there. He is also the Executive Director of the non-profit Online Policy Group, which provides free, donation-supported colocation services to other non-profits (including PenLUG). From jim at well.com Mon Nov 6 13:51:37 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 13:51:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Monitoring SIG this Wednesday, Nov 8, 7PM Message-ID: <78b4158aa4d6d358b7ac58f792e24abc@well.com> check it out--Monitoring SIG Wednesday evening, 7 PM at 139 Townsend in SF. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Peter Mui" > Date: November 6, 2006 10:10:08 AM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: Monitoring SIG this Wednesday, Nov 8, 7PM > > Hi Jim: > > If appropriate: can you please let SF-LUG members know about the > Monitoring SIG this Wednesday?? (See the announcement below.) > > Thanks for any help, -Peter > > Peter Mui,?Open Source Community Advocate > GROUNDWORK Open Source, Inc. > 139 Townsend Street, Suite 100 > San Francisco, CA 94107-1946 > +1 415 992 4573?(direct) > +1 415 947 0684 (fax) > pmui at groundworkopensource.com > > > > ----------------------------------------------------- > Monitoring SIG this month: Monitoring Show-n-Tell & Rant-n-Rave > > Based on consensus from last month's phenomenal meeting: come prepared > to discuss your favorite (and not-so-favorite) monitoring-related > tools and talk about what has (and hasn't) worked for you.? Out of > this dialogue, we'll assemble an inventory of tools to 1) map out the > monitoring space and 2) compare and contrast tools, with the goal of > creating consensus about the best tools and approaches to monitoring.? > We'll have an LCD projector and wireless available if you need to show > the assembled crowd something from the web or your laptop.? Bring your > questions -- share your experiences! > > What: Monitoring SIG: The Sequel > Who:? Anyone interested in IT monitoring issues and tools > When:? Wednesday, November 8 2006, 7PM > Where:? GroundWork Open Source, 139 Townsend St., San Francisco > How:? 139 Townsend St. is very near AT&T Park. It is two blocks from > the CalTrain Depot.? Take the MUNI N trolley "inbound" to 2nd and King > (ballpark stop) or take the 15 or 30 buses crosstown.? Free evening > street parking can usually be found. > > Food (pizza again) and drinks (pop again) will be provided by > GroundWork.? We'll open up the doors at 6:30 or so and start the > formal part of the meeting promptly at 7PM. > > RSVP (not necessary, but helpful): Peter Mui, > pmui at groundworkopensource.com, 415 992 4573 > > ----------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2493 bytes Desc: not available URL: From alamozzz at yahoo.com Mon Nov 6 14:33:24 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:33:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <454F8063.7090801@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20061106223324.15512.qmail@web50508.mail.yahoo.com> The problem is companies capitalizing on open source software, while contributing the minimum amount of resources possible. A group such as EFF can get involved with litigation on certain matters. OSDL is working to promote FOSS. But, there is as yet no group or individual providing overall strategic direction to the open source community. Maybe we need to summon Sauron out of retirement, so we can have a "single eye" (and brain.) Sauron is one of the few entities capable of dealing with the characters challenging FOSS. - Adrien Catherine Jones wrote: Thanks, Rick, for the pointer to groklaw.net for information on the Microsoft-Novell pact. Reading through Friday's discussion there http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103073628401 broought up a lot of questions for me about both Linux community strategy and individual FOSS developer choices (libraries, patents, licensing agreements, et cetera). How do we best defend open-source software against anti-competitive misuse of patents? These are very old (and, of course, potentially inflammatory) questions, but I think it might be useful to have a semi-planned discussion of them at one of the future sf-lug meetings. I know that I (for one) need to bring myself up to date on some of the issues. Are there people in sf-lug with special knowledge to share in this area? Should some of us take on the task of reporting back on particular topics - e.g., versions of the GPL or the risks (real, perceived, or wildly speculative) of litigation against particular open source projects? Well, just a thought.... Catherine _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Sponsored Link For just $24.99/mo., Vonage offers unlimited local and long- distance calling. Sign up now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Mon Nov 6 15:39:48 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 15:39:48 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Windows and Linux OS to work together In-Reply-To: <454F8063.7090801@eskimo.com> References: <20061103220821.GE16638@sonic.net> <20061103224702.62125.qmail@web50402.mail.yahoo.com> <20061104012423.GH26620@linuxmafia.com> <20061104015529.GI26620@linuxmafia.com> <454F8063.7090801@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <20061106233948.GM26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Catherine Jones (cathjone at eskimo.com): > Thanks, Rick, for the pointer to groklaw.net for information on the > Microsoft-Novell pact. > > Reading through Friday's discussion there > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103073628401 > brought up a lot of questions for me about both Linux community > strategy and individual FOSS developer choices (libraries, patents, > licensing agreements, et cetera). A really good analysis piece about the Novell / Microsoft announcement -- a refreshing change from all the recent, dopey "Windows and Linux OS to work together" articles in the mainstream IT press: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/06/microsoft_novell_analysis/ Author Andrew Orlowski (fair disclosure: acquaintance of mine) has Clue. I object to his taxonomy: Major portions of those whose call themselves "open source" people, including yrs. truly, have always been intensely concerned with software freedom, and I deny indignantly Orlowski's suggestion that _we_ were not serious in that, or serious in our assertion that "open source" and "free software"[0] are two different marketing programs that map to the same territory of code and licensing. At the same time, he is certainly correct that parties concerned only with business expedience have also flocked to the "open source" banner. Orlowski correctly cites in his second sub-header (right below the slightly boozy Fleet Street bluster that is the traditional opening salvo of most _Register_ pieces) the salient fact that started _greatly_ alarming many of us a few years ago: Microsoft's change of tactics in 2003 from pure FUD tactics to from-scratch construction of a software patent warchest. (I've been talking and warning about this exact gambit for years.) And Orlowski paints a bullseye on the important area in which Novell has just sold all of us out -- presumably driven in part by their acquisition of Ximian, the idiots who decided to spend several valuable years building Mono as a dot-Net imitation in carefree ignornance of probable patent claims. > How do we best defend open-source software against anti-competitive > misuse of patents? Open Source Patent Law 101 is now in session. There are three tactical ways to deal with software patents, one preventative measure, and two strategic ones: Preventative: Try skirt clear of patent emcumbrances[1] in the first place, when designing codebases and writing code. This would mean, for example, deciding several years ago that Manuel de Icaza and the Ximian / GNOME people were reckless idiots, steer clear of anything built on the Mono runtime engine, and approach other things they created with caution. Tactical#1: Challenge patent claims as they're asserted, and seek to have the patents invalidated on grounds of prior art or other defects. This is expensive (requires court action), but has the advantages of very strongly discouraging opponents' deployment of the patent weapon against open source developers (as their losing each case also means losing the deployed patents completely). Tactical#2: Mutually assured patent destruction. The more valuable Linux becomes to large companies, the more incentive they have to defend it by deploying their own patent weapons in counterclaims. The 500 pound canary in software patents is IBM, which has moved very strongly into Linux for some years. Tactical#3: As previously-obscure patent encumbrances ("submerged patents") become known and are determined to be a problem for Linux, rewrite code to use non-patented techniques instead of patented ones. This is a big nuisance and takes time and effort, but is a time-honoured way to deal with the problem. Strategic#1: Reform the patent laws. Strategic#2: Adopt licensing that includes patent-defence provisions, as does the current draft of GPLv3. [0] I personally decline to use the ungainly and un-marketable neologism "FOSS" (or, worse, "FLOSS"). [1] By which I mean patent encumbrances that mandate royalty payments or other excessive limitations. Not all patents are deal-breakers, e.g., Adobe's patents covering the PDF format, which are licensed royalty-free and thus are not an impediment to open source / free software implementations. From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 08:36:38 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:36:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [school-discuss] Fwd: A Landmark Announcement Message-ID: > To: schoolforge-discuss at schoolforge.net > Subject: Re: [school-discuss] Fwd: A Landmark Announcement > Reply-To: schoolforge-discuss at schoolforge.net > > Novell-Microsoft: What They Aren't Telling You > By Bruce Perens > > "There are two significant announcements. First, that Novell and > Microsoft are entering into a patent cross-license, and second, that > Microsoft is promising not to assert its patents against individual > non-commercial developers. The bad part is that this sets Mirosoft up > to assert its patents against all commercial Open Source users. There > are also some little bonuses for Microsoft, like Novell will help > Microsoft turn back the Open Document Format and substitute something > Microsoft controls. > > When we say "commercial", it's interesting to note that there are > really few non-commercial users: people who only use their computer > for a hobby. Buying something on a web site, for example, is a > commercial use. Most individuals use their computers in some aspect of > making their livelihood. There will now be a Microsoft-approved path > for such people to make use of Open Source, an expensive subscription > to Novell SuSe Linux that costs as much or more than Microsoft Windows > and that comes with a patent license." > Full article at http://technocrat.net/d/2006/11/2/9945 > > -- > "Value your freedom, or you will lose it, teaches history. > `Don't bother us with politics', respond those who don't want to > learn." > ???????? -- Richard Stallman -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1729 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 08:42:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:42:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [conspire] Novell and Microsoft Agree to Sell Each Others Products: Bad News for Novell? Message-ID: <809127014f550b0b48febbecd6cd882b@well.com> (last sentence of message below: "...the new ground they're breaking is probably Novell's gravesite." me: "I hope so!") > To: conspire at linuxmafia.com > Subject: [conspire] Novell and Microsoft Agree to Sell Each Others > Products: Bad News for Novell? > > Interesting article... > > Below is an article "Novell: We Surrender" > by Daniel Lyons, of Forbes, 11.03.06, 11:45 AM ET > I wonder how enterprise folk like SpikeSource are regarding this > development. > _______________________________ > Three years ago this week, ailing software maker Novell paid $210 > million to > acquire Suse, a German version of the free operating system called > Linux. > Novell hoped that by embracing Linux, an alternative to the decidedly > unfree > Windows operating system from Microsoft, it could revive its dying > software > business. > > On Thursday, Novell (nasdaq: NOVL - news - people ) effectively > conceded that > this effort has failed. > > On stage with Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ) in San > Francisco, > Novell announced that the two companies would cooperate to make the > Windows > operating system and Linux work well together. More significantly, > Microsoft > will resell Novell's version of Linux, and Novell will start paying > royalties > to Microsoft in exchange for Microsoft's pledge not to enforce patent > claims > against Novell and its customers. > > Novell tried to put a brave face on things, even claiming that its > chief > executive, Ron Hovsepian, had initiated the talks with Microsoft. In > fact, > Microsoft's lawyers have been quietly pressuring open-source companies > like > Novell for more than a year and warning their customers that they > could be > vulnerable to patent infringement claims because they're using Linux. > > By partnering with Microsoft, Novell protects itself and its customers > from > such claims. Novell also gets a powerful new distribution partner: > Microsoft > says it will sell Novell's Suse Linux to its own customers and aims to > distribute 70,000 copies a year. > > Novell also gains a way to differentiate itself from Red Hat (nasdaq: > RHAT - > news - people ), the leading Linux distributor, by offering better > patent > protection. > > But Novell also is admitting it cannot compete on its own against Red > Hat. > After two years of struggling, Novell holds only 20% market share of > commercial Linux shipments; Red Hat commands virtually all of the rest. > Although Linux itself is free, companies like Red Hat and Novell can > make > money by distributing and supporting it. > > At yesterday's hastily called press conference in San Francisco, > Microsoft > Chief Executive Steve Ballmer conceded that his customers want to use > Linux--a Windows rival that Microsoft has spent the past decade trying > to > squash. > > Developed collaboratively by programmers from around the world, Linux > has > become wildly popular in corporate data centers, powering companies > like > Google (nasdaq: GOOG - news - people ), Amazon (nasdaq: AMZN - news - > people ) and many large Wall Street firms. It is a variant of Unix, an > operating system developed in the 1970s by AT&T (nyse: T - news - > people ) > and considered more stable, though less user-friendly, than Windows. > > Ballmer said Microsoft's customers are demanding that his company make > its > programs work more smoothly with Linux. > > But while the talk on stage was all about peace, love and > interoperability, > Microsoft's maneuver also lets it divide the Linux market by driving a > wedge > between the two biggest players. In fact, the Linux market is already > splintering into many different versions, a trend that helps Microsoft. > > In addition to Red Hat and Novell, other popular Linux distributions > include > Ubuntu, Xandros and Linspire. Just yesterday, as Microsoft and Novell > were > announcing their pact, the radical Free Software Foundation was > releasing yet > another version of Linux, called gNewSense. The foundation is also > working on > a new license for Linux, which threatens to create even more > fragmentation. > > Microsoft's pact with Novell also cranks up the pressure on Red Hat. > Last > week, that company came under a separate attack when database giant > Oracle > (nasdaq: ORCL - news - people ) said it would start distributing its > own > version of Linux--a free clone of Red Hat's software. Oracle also > intends to > offer support to Red Hat customers for less than half of what Red Hat > charges. > > Now, Red Hat must compete not only with Oracle but also with > Microsoft, which > will be promoting Suse Linux and steering customers away from Red Hat. > > Nevertheless, Red Hat's publicity department cheerily proclaimed that > the > Oracle and Microsoft announcements represent a terrific turn of > events. "It's > fantastic news. Two of the main tech companies decided to get behind > Linux > within six days. If that's not validation, what is?" > > Note to Red Hat: When companies start talking about Microsoft > "validating" > their market, they're usually about to be validated out of existence. > > Same goes for ailing software makers that announce some triumphant > pact with > Microsoft. These deals are like the Roach Motel. Companies go in and > never > come out. > > Think about this: Novell now has signed as its biggest reseller a > company that > wants nothing more than to kill its product. > > Microsoft has done this many times before, so often that Redmond has a > name > for the technique: embrace, extend and exterminate. And yet people > keep doing > these deals. Usually, it's weak, struggling, desperate companies with > declining market share and little hope of turning things around. In > other > words, just like Novell. > > On Thursday night, I asked Jeff Jaffe, Novell's chief technology > officer, if > he could think of a company that had partnered with Microsoft and done > really > well as a result. Which Microsoft alliance, I asked him, would he cite > as the > model that he'd like to emulate? > > His response: "I think this partnership is breaking new ground." > > Um, right. Unfortunately, the new ground they're breaking is probably > Novell's > gravesite. > -- > Mark Weisler > _______________________________________________ > conspire mailing list > conspire at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 6342 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 08:44:39 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:44:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] oracle offers RHEL support at discounts--why? Message-ID: <7f1958d9efad480bb11bbdf109489e23@well.com> Can anyone shed light on the recent news that Oracle is offering RHEL support at a hefty discount? What is the benefit for Oracle? Are they trying to sink Red Hat? Are they trying to learn the RHEL support market? Do they think this will be a big revenue stream? From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Tue Nov 7 09:21:36 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:21:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [conspire] Novell and Microsoft Agree to Sell Each Others Products: Bad News for Novell? In-Reply-To: <809127014f550b0b48febbecd6cd882b@well.com> Message-ID: <20061107172137.33698.qmail@web50409.mail.yahoo.com> Well, I guess I better start taking Windows based courses now to become a Microsoft Certified Professional, MCP. --- jim stockford wrote: > > (last sentence of message below: > "...the new ground they're breaking is probably > Novell's gravesite." > me: > "I hope so!") > > > To: conspire at linuxmafia.com > > Subject: [conspire] Novell and Microsoft Agree to > Sell Each Others > > Products: Bad News for Novell? > > > > Interesting article... > > > > Below is an article "Novell: We Surrender" > > by Daniel Lyons, of Forbes, 11.03.06, 11:45 AM ET > > I wonder how enterprise folk like SpikeSource are > regarding this > > development. > > _______________________________ > > Three years ago this week, ailing software maker > Novell paid $210 > > million to > > acquire Suse, a German version of the free > operating system called > > Linux. > > Novell hoped that by embracing Linux, an > alternative to the decidedly > > unfree > > Windows operating system from Microsoft, it could > revive its dying > > software > > business. > > > > On Thursday, Novell (nasdaq: NOVL - news - people > ) effectively > > conceded that > > this effort has failed. > > > > On stage with Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - > people ) in San > > Francisco, > > Novell announced that the two companies would > cooperate to make the > > Windows > > operating system and Linux work well together. > More significantly, > > Microsoft > > will resell Novell's version of Linux, and Novell > will start paying > > royalties > > to Microsoft in exchange for Microsoft's pledge > not to enforce patent > > claims > > against Novell and its customers. > > > > Novell tried to put a brave face on things, even > claiming that its > > chief > > executive, Ron Hovsepian, had initiated the talks > with Microsoft. In > > fact, > > Microsoft's lawyers have been quietly pressuring > open-source companies > > like > > Novell for more than a year and warning their > customers that they > > could be > > vulnerable to patent infringement claims because > they're using Linux. > > > > By partnering with Microsoft, Novell protects > itself and its customers > > from > > such claims. Novell also gets a powerful new > distribution partner: > > Microsoft > > says it will sell Novell's Suse Linux to its own > customers and aims to > > distribute 70,000 copies a year. > > > > Novell also gains a way to differentiate itself > from Red Hat (nasdaq: > > RHAT - > > news - people ), the leading Linux distributor, by > offering better > > patent > > protection. > > > > But Novell also is admitting it cannot compete on > its own against Red > > Hat. > > After two years of struggling, Novell holds only > 20% market share of > > commercial Linux shipments; Red Hat commands > virtually all of the rest. > > Although Linux itself is free, companies like Red > Hat and Novell can > > make > > money by distributing and supporting it. > > > > At yesterday's hastily called press conference in > San Francisco, > > Microsoft > > Chief Executive Steve Ballmer conceded that his > customers want to use > > Linux--a Windows rival that Microsoft has spent > the past decade trying > > to > > squash. > > > > Developed collaboratively by programmers from > around the world, Linux > > has > > become wildly popular in corporate data centers, > powering companies > > like > > Google (nasdaq: GOOG - news - people ), Amazon > (nasdaq: AMZN - news - > > people ) and many large Wall Street firms. It is a > variant of Unix, an > > operating system developed in the 1970s by AT&T > (nyse: T - news - > > people ) > > and considered more stable, though less > user-friendly, than Windows. > > > > Ballmer said Microsoft's customers are demanding > that his company make > > its > > programs work more smoothly with Linux. > > > > But while the talk on stage was all about peace, > love and > > interoperability, > > Microsoft's maneuver also lets it divide the Linux > market by driving a > > wedge > > between the two biggest players. In fact, the > Linux market is already > > splintering into many different versions, a trend > that helps Microsoft. > > > > In addition to Red Hat and Novell, other popular > Linux distributions > > include > > Ubuntu, Xandros and Linspire. Just yesterday, as > Microsoft and Novell > > were > > announcing their pact, the radical Free Software > Foundation was > > releasing yet > > another version of Linux, called gNewSense. The > foundation is also > > working on > > a new license for Linux, which threatens to create > even more > > fragmentation. > > > > Microsoft's pact with Novell also cranks up the > pressure on Red Hat. > > Last > > week, that company came under a separate attack > when database giant > > Oracle > > (nasdaq: ORCL - news - people ) said it would > start distributing its > > own > > version of Linux--a free clone of Red Hat's > software. Oracle also > > intends to > > offer support to Red Hat customers for less than > half of what Red Hat > > charges. > > > > Now, Red Hat must compete not only with Oracle but > also with > > Microsoft, which > > will be promoting Suse Linux and steering > customers away from Red Hat. > > > > Nevertheless, Red Hat's publicity department > cheerily proclaimed that > > the > > Oracle and Microsoft announcements represent a > terrific turn of > > events. "It's > > fantastic news. Two of the main tech companies > decided to get behind > > Linux > > within six days. If that's not validation, what > is?" > > > > Note to Red Hat: When companies start talking > about Microsoft > > "validating" > > their market, they're usually about to be > validated out of existence. > > > > Same goes for ailing software makers that announce > some triumphant > === message truncated ===> _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From agrimm at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 11:02:58 2006 From: agrimm at gmail.com (Andy Grimm) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:02:58 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] oracle offers RHEL support at discounts--why? In-Reply-To: <7f1958d9efad480bb11bbdf109489e23@well.com> References: <7f1958d9efad480bb11bbdf109489e23@well.com> Message-ID: <6d4878ee0611071102t35620d87gb7a6fae3dd982182@mail.gmail.com> There are several reasons, but I think it's mostly because they want more power over applying nonstandard OS patches that will specifically benefit them, but may not be accepted by Red Hat. It's worth noting that while Red Hat hardly uses a "vanilla" kernel, they are very careful to only introduce patches that they feel are going to be incorporated into the standard Linux kernel at some point. The same goes for other Red Hat packages; they do backort patches and end up with some nonstandard versions of packages at some points, but they always know that they're staying close to main line development of a project and not really forking. My impression is that Oracle has had some frustration with this process in the past (the waiting to see if the community OK's a patch); they have often released their own versions of packages such as binutils and required customers to use these alternate packages. I would not be surprised if their Linux distro essentially becomes a fork, where they have little concern for whether their changes are accepted by the community. And I'm not going to say whether that's right or wrong; it's just what I think will happen. I don't think that sinking Red Hat is their primary motive; I think they chose the distribution as a starting point because it has the most enterprise market share, especially when it comes to the Oracle on Linux install base. (I should mention that I'm currently employed by an Oracle competitor, but I spent a lot of time dealing with the Red Hat / Oracle combination at my previous job.) --Andy On 11/7/06, jim stockford wrote: > > Can anyone shed light on the recent news that Oracle is > offering RHEL support at a hefty discount? > What is the benefit for Oracle? Are they trying to sink Red > Hat? Are they trying to learn the RHEL support market? Do > they think this will be a big revenue stream? > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 13:12:20 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:12:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Notes and News re our last meeting -- Colo'ing our box Message-ID: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> Part 1: getting our computer ready for the colocation facility Thanks to Paul Lancaster of ServePath/ColoServe for taking time away from family and football to talk with us Sunday about colocating and putting our SF-LUG host at the ServePath facility on Spear Street. ( ServePath == ColoServe ) I printed the form, filled it out, and delivered it to Paul this morning. Their system kicked out welcomes and instructions to fill out further info early this afternoon. I guess I've got to get around to actually installing CentOS 4.2 or 4.3, whichever SpiderTools sent me, on the box--partition it, install the right software, set up firewalling, etc. You can get around to this, too, if you let me know you <--------- want to--we can all huddle over the box and opine. I figure the box and ServePath should be ready by the first of next week. So you have between now and, say, Tuesday morning to arrange mutually convenient times to looksee and/or participate in installation and configuration. Not Sunday daytime, maybe Sunday evening. Not Saturday afternoon, but maybe around 5:30, in advance of going to Rick Moen's Cabal gathering in Menlo Park. Maybe a morning Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday this week. Maybe the morning of 11/13 after 10 AM or so. email jim at well.com and/or the sf-lug mailing list to <-------- set things up. NOTE: this is your last chance to inspect the box some of us built together. NOTE MORE: I'm happy to reinstall and reconfig the CentOS distribution on the box for those who want to go through the process--e.g. if some show up to build the box on Thursday, we can rebuild it again with those who show up Saturday 5:30 ish. NOTE EVEN MORE: showing up means coming to my house near Ocean Beach in San Francisco (easy on the #5 Fulton bus, possible to arrange rides, even get me to pick you up or take you home). From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 13:43:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:43:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Notes and News re our last meeting -- Colo'ing our box In-Reply-To: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> References: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> Message-ID: Part 2: getting ourselves ready for the colo facility We need up to three people who are willing to go to Spear Street in the event our box needs physical help (a new drive or something). I suggested a two-tier system: the more experienced and the less experienced--the mentors and the mentees, rotating each quarter, with a required trip to Spear Street to see where the box is in case of need to work on it. We need any number of people willing to administer the box remotely: check that filesystems aren't fully or nearly so, make sure no bad guys have co-opted the box, etc. This is Red Hat System and Network Administration. Anyone want to help and/or add this experience to your resumes? We need any number of people willing to coordinate on maintaining and developing the SF-LUG web site-- a matter of being helpful or building your resume. Possibilities include adding a wiki, integrating Plone or Zope or some such.... It's a pretty good box, so it can be a common home for compiling projects, maybe some open source software (sourceforge is best, of course, in general).... It's a Red Hat type box, so it could be a good playground for learning Red Hat Certification skills. From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 14:04:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:04:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] LAMP Developers, SF Message-ID: <80286ce1133c2365cf868c51c73635fb@well.com> > From: "Beau Gould" > Date: November 7, 2006 2:35:35 PM PST > To: > Subject: [JOB] LAMP Developers, SF > > I have multiple clients in the SF area looking for LAMP Developers at > all skill levels and I was wondering if anyone was actively seeking new > opportunities. If so, kindly reply with your resume and salary > requirements. > > The usual skills apply: Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP. > > Thank you, > Beau J. Gould > > Open Source Staffing > www.open-source-staffing.com > beau at open-source-staffing.com > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 789 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Tue Nov 7 14:02:55 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:02:55 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Notes and News re our last meeting -- Colo'ing our box In-Reply-To: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> References: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> Message-ID: Part 3: summary of the Sunday meeting (11/5) Paul offers a tour of the ServePath/ColoServe facility sometime in the next couple of weeks. Who's interested? I suggest early evening Tuesday or Thursday. Other suggestions as to when to go to Spear Street and see the joint and talk with the techies? Maybe Paul can send us a textfile with IPtables rules we can use for our box. Paul invites us to send him mail: paul at funkychimp.net but hey, he's on this list, too. Paul represented ServePath/ColoServe as moving away from raw colocating ("it's a real estate play") to providing managed services (providing customization of the network equipment functionality around the customers' hosts--firewalls, SANs, load balancing...). They were four people in a ratty office four years ago and are over 50 in the USA and Germany now. Paul mentioned Web 2 and intimated that surely we all know what that means. (Well, not really other than maybe "a better web, now that we kind of know what we're doing and have shaken out some of the BS artists". Does anyone actually know?) http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/tim/news/2005/09/30/what-is- web-20.html Paul recommends meetup.com as a gateway into a lot of community activities (our focus being techy communities rather than volleyball or poker...). Other topic keywords that came up during the meeting (I get dizzy sometimes and lose track, someone help me out: ) >> newtech >> meetings at cnet >> istumbler demo recently >> >> sfweb2.0meetup >> >>> "utility serve" is ServePath's grid network timeshare >>> a la three terra.com >>>> meetup.com >>>> linksv.com >>>> linkedin.com >>>> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1954 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Nov 7 14:31:51 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 14:31:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Notes and News re our last meeting -- Colo'ing our box In-Reply-To: References: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> Message-ID: <20061107223151.GT26620@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > We need any number of people willing to coordinate > on maintaining and developing the SF-LUG web site-- > a matter of being helpful or building your resume. > Possibilities include adding a wiki, integrating Plone > or Zope or some such.... Rumour has it that, in some countries, when webmasters are convicted of particularly heinous crimes, they're sentenced to administer Plone. -- Cheers, The genius of you Americans is that you never make Rick Moen clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves rick at linuxmafia.com that make us wonder at the possibility that there may be something to them that we are missing. --Gamel Abdel Nasser From kkeller at speakeasy.net Tue Nov 7 16:33:52 2006 From: kkeller at speakeasy.net (Keith Keller) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:33:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Notes and News re our last meeting -- Colo'ing our box In-Reply-To: References: <6adc20d5dbff4f882bdc6b6905f688bf@well.com> Message-ID: <20061108003352.GA30824@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> On Tue, Nov 07, 2006 at 01:43:59PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > Part 2: getting ourselves ready for the colo facility > > We need up to three people who are willing to go > to Spear Street in the event our box needs physical > help (a new drive or something). > We need any number of people willing to administer > the box remotely: check that filesystems aren't fully or > nearly so, make sure no bad guys have co-opted the > box, etc. I'm not unwilling to volunteer some time, but I do have a toddler and a newborn on the way, so my time constraints are very unpredictable over the next few weeks/months. :) Remote should not be too hard; on-site wouldn't be too bad, but it probably wouldn't be a fast response. I'd rate my admin ski11z as intermediate in most areas except nontrivial hardware, where I'm at best beginner. (Replacing a drive, easy; replacing a power supply, uh, not so.) Has there been talk about auditing for the people who do end up with root-equivalent access? i.e., will people be forced to use sudo, so that commands are logged? or will sudo su be disallowed? I don't have a particular preference, but in a situation where you have multiple people at scattered sites who might have root-equivalent you also want some protection against admins stomping each other's work. :) I don't necessarily want to be setting de facto admin policy; I just want to get it on the radar for those who would end up volunteering. Obviously the people providing the dollars have final say! > Possibilities include adding a wiki, integrating Plone > or Zope or some such.... I'm with Rick on Plone. ;-) --keith -- kkeller at speakeasy.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Wed Nov 8 10:42:23 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:42:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [school-discuss] Fwd: A Landmark Announcement Message-ID: <8352860faa22d6a8bf0e35e4337b70fe@well.com> (this responds to an earlier message from a city college administrator with respect to costs implications, given that they're currently using Novell NOC and thinking of increasing Linux visibility on campus.) Begin forwarded message: > To: schoolforge-discuss at schoolforge.net > Subject: Re: [school-discuss] Fwd: A Landmark Announcement > Reply-To: schoolforge-discuss at schoolforge.net > > Perhaps 'hedge your bets' is a better strategy than 'boycott Novell' > in your case. Most people, even non-technical ones, will agree when > you say that many/most companies that allied with MS eventually get > absorbed or stabbed in the back--in either case, they go away. > Considering all that MS has said about Linux, there's no reason to > consider this deal will be any different. Perhaps it won't turn out > bad for Novell. But what your school needs to be doing is thinking > strategically, such that if Novell does end up in a bad position as a > result of this deal, your school and its technology plan aren't in a > position that suddenly becomes very expensive. > The diversity of Linux distributions is one of its strengths. If one > vendor does something that isn't in your best interest, you can move > to another fairly easily. > If MS or Apple do something that's good for them at your expense, and > your technology plan is built around them, it's difficult to change, > meaning you sigh, and then increase class size so you can eliminate a > teacher to pay for MS's or Apple's price increase. The point is to be > thinking NOW about where you want to be in two or three years so that > if Novell does collapse, you can say "Good thing we made those > changes back in 2006 such that Novell's demise/MS's tightening > restrictions/price increase doesn't affect us." One could argue that > this MS/Novell deal gives you a real opportunity to convince your > colleagues of the danger of your 'full investment in Novell' and the > need to move away from such mono-culture, as it provides you with an > occasion to remind people of how these deals usually play out, and how > your school should take steps to make sure it's not on the short end > of such an agreement. > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2362 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Thu Nov 9 10:21:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 10:21:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] more re Novell/MSFT and GPL Message-ID: This is entertainingly written and well-thought: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061107194320461 with lots and lots of links at bottom. As to patenting software, I once worked as sys adm and de facto DBA for the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit--i.e. techy for the federal government. My boss told me that all software written for the feds (and i presume for states and counties, etc.) is in the public domain. that's a lot of code in the public domain. finding existing code wrt some patent trial could be difficult, of course. seems a significant consideration. From jim at well.com Thu Nov 9 11:13:06 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:13:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Apress UG Member: Review a Hot New Book? Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: Janet Crosbie > Date: November 8, 2006 12:18:54 PM PST > To: jim at well.com > Subject: Apress UG Member: Review a Hot New Book? > > Apress Seeks New Reviewers! > > Apress is actively seeking fresh voices to write about our books. As a > publisher, we rely on independent writers and reviewers to speak > forcefully and honestly about our products to the larger technology > book-buying community. > > Which of these titles would you like to review immediately? > > ************************************ > > "Beginning XML with DOM and Ajax" > by Sas Jacobs | ISBN: 1-59059-676-5 > http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10131 > > "Pro Ajax and Java Frameworks" > By Nathaniel T. Schutta and Ryan Asleson | ISBN: 1-59059-677-3 > http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10142 > > ************************************ > > Please take a moment to read the review-writing guidelines we've > posted: http://www.apress.com/userGroups/writeareview.html. In > general, we like to see reviews posted to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, > and/or Bookpool--to name a few places. > > Please reply to me at janet at apress.com, if you or another group member > would be interested in posting a prompt, thorough review on either of > these books. > > Thank you in advance! > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 9 11:41:02 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 11:41:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... Message-ID: <20061109194102.GA17673@linuxmafia.com> Hi, Vincent. A week ago, I sent this post, and have seen no reply. If you'd rather not say, that's fine -- but I'm just really curious about which Linux distributions so far you've installed and tried out (or, in the case of live-CD distributions, just tried out). ----- Forwarded message from rick ----- Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > To me it seems a bit overwhelming. I look at what Jim has gone through > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed and tried out? -- Cheers, A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will Rick Moen annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright rick at linuxmafia.com ----- End forwarded message ----- From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 9 12:27:17 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:27:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] more re Novell/MSFT and GPL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061109202717.GD14771@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > As to patenting software, I once worked as sys adm > and de facto DBA for the US Court of Appeals for the > Ninth Circuit--i.e. techy for the federal government. > My boss told me that all software written for the feds > (and i presume for states and counties, etc.) is in the > public domain. that's a lot of code in the public domain. 1. That's not exactly right. 2. And, besides, that would have no bearing on patents. 1-details: Inside the USA Copyright Act, 17 USC 105 (i.e., title 17 of the United States Code, section 105), you'll find the following: Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work of the United States Government, but the United States Government is not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to it by assignment, bequest, or otherwise. Like most US Federal statutes, that's really quite clear: If a Federal agency directly _creates_ a piece of software (or other creative work normally covered by copyright), then it passes directly into the public domain. On the other hand, if it _hires_ some outside party to create the code, then it can accept copyright title pursuant to contract. So, the Feds _can_ arrange to own copyright over custom-written software if they feel like it, just by putting the job out to bid. Alternatively, if they don't care about ownership and produce the software in-house, then it immediately becomes public domain. 2-details: Public domain doesn't mean "free from patent encumbrances". Public domain merely means "has no copyright ownership title". Patents and copyrights are _entirely_ different things. o A patent is a limited monopoly over _all_ implementations of a practical method or algorithm, that is new and innovative. Ownership requires filing an application and fee with the US Commerce Dept.'s Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), surviving a review by a USPTO patent examiner, to determine that the method/algorithm is properly described and truly innovative, and eventual issuance of the patent. Patent runtime is 20 years from the earliest filing date (of a patent application), if you filed on or after 1995-06-08. (A different 17-year rule applies for earlier patents, the last of which will expire in 2012.) o A copyright is a limited monopoly over copying, basing works on, and (in some categories) performing a particular expression of a specific creative work that has been set down in "fixed form" (i.e., not just something you're thinking of, but never wrote down), inside about seven or eight specified areas of creative endeavour that include writing software. You do not need to apply anywhere or pay anyone to gain ownership of a copyright: You gain ownership over it automatically by creating it and putting it in "fixed form". (Notice that copyright law poses no restrictions on _using_ the creative work, just on copying it and creating derivative works.) If an individual creates the work, copyright expires 70 years after the author dies (per latest term extension for Disney's benefit). For corporate authors, the term is 95 years from the date of first publication or 120 years from the date of creation, whichever expires first. Copyright covers a _creative expression_; patent covers an _idea_. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea-expression_divide If I want to copy some software over which someone owns copyright, and he/she doesn't let me, I'm absolutely free to write (or commission) my own own equivalent software. So, you can always work around a copyright by homebrewing. You cannot do that with patents. If you think Microsoft's Active Directory architecture is kinda cool and decided to write your own from-scratch implementation to interoperate with theirs, they can stop you on patent-violation grounds _if_ they happen to own a patent on, say, "A method for authenticating to a shared directory service [blah blah]". The trick, of course, is to know what patents to avoid when creating things. Patents that are kept carefully obscure, to mug people with them after they're already in trouble, are called "submerged patents". > finding existing code wrt some patent trial could be > difficult, of course. seems a significant consideration. Sorry, not relevant. What _is_ relevant, if you want to challenge a patent, is to show "prior art" -- independent use of the method by others prior to applicant's filing date. From jim at well.com Thu Nov 9 12:47:15 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:47:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] more re Novell/MSFT and GPL In-Reply-To: <20061109202717.GD14771@linuxmafia.com> References: <20061109202717.GD14771@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: hmmm, thank you and a reply. per government code, there is a lot of code written by government employees, not contractors. per patent vs copyright, i don't know how things have been resolved recently: there was seeming confusion over whether software is a written expression of something or an algorithm controlling a machine. What's the latest? per government code re patent, seems to me in the case of patent issues that existing government code would or at least could constitute prior art or design and play a part in patentable determinations, yes? no? On Nov 9, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > >> As to patenting software, I once worked as sys adm >> and de facto DBA for the US Court of Appeals for the >> Ninth Circuit--i.e. techy for the federal government. >> My boss told me that all software written for the feds >> (and i presume for states and counties, etc.) is in the >> public domain. that's a lot of code in the public domain. > > 1. That's not exactly right. > 2. And, besides, that would have no bearing on patents. > > 1-details: Inside the USA Copyright Act, 17 USC 105 (i.e., title 17 of > the United States Code, section 105), you'll find the following: > > Copyright protection under this title is not available for any work > of the United States Government, but the United States Government is > not precluded from receiving and holding copyrights transferred to > it > by assignment, bequest, or otherwise. > > Like most US Federal statutes, that's really quite clear: If a Federal > agency directly _creates_ a piece of software (or other creative work > normally covered by copyright), then it passes directly into the public > domain. On the other hand, if it _hires_ some outside party to create > the code, then it can accept copyright title pursuant to contract. > > So, the Feds _can_ arrange to own copyright over custom-written > software > if they feel like it, just by putting the job out to bid. > Alternatively, if they don't care about ownership and produce the > software in-house, then it immediately becomes public domain. > > > 2-details: Public domain doesn't mean "free from patent encumbrances". > Public domain merely means "has no copyright ownership title". Patents > and copyrights are _entirely_ different things. > > o A patent is a limited monopoly over _all_ implementations of a > practical method or algorithm, that is new and innovative. > Ownership requires filing an application and fee with the US > Commerce Dept.'s Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), > surviving a review by a USPTO patent examiner, to determine > that the method/algorithm is properly described and truly > innovative, and eventual issuance of the patent. Patent runtime > is 20 years from the earliest filing date (of a patent application), > if you filed on or after 1995-06-08. (A different 17-year rule > applies for earlier patents, the last of which will expire in 2012.) > > o A copyright is a limited monopoly over copying, basing works on, > and (in some categories) performing a particular expression of > a specific creative work that has been set down in "fixed form" > (i.e., not just something you're thinking of, but never wrote down), > inside about seven or eight specified areas of creative endeavour > that include writing software. You do not need to apply anywhere > or pay anyone to gain ownership of a copyright: You gain ownership > over it automatically by creating it and putting it in "fixed form". > > (Notice that copyright law poses no restrictions on _using_ the > creative work, just on copying it and creating derivative works.) > > If an individual creates the work, copyright expires 70 years after > the author dies (per latest term extension for Disney's benefit). > For corporate authors, the term is 95 years from the date of > first publication or 120 years from the date of creation, whichever > expires first. > > Copyright covers a _creative expression_; patent covers an _idea_. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea-expression_divide > > If I want to copy some software over which someone owns copyright, and > he/she doesn't let me, I'm absolutely free to write (or commission) my > own own equivalent software. So, you can always work around a > copyright > by homebrewing. > > You cannot do that with patents. If you think Microsoft's Active > Directory architecture is kinda cool and decided to write your own > from-scratch implementation to interoperate with theirs, they can > stop you on patent-violation grounds _if_ they happen to own a patent > on, say, "A method for authenticating to a shared directory service > [blah blah]". > > The trick, of course, is to know what patents to avoid when creating > things. Patents that are kept carefully obscure, to mug people with > them after they're already in trouble, are called "submerged patents". > > >> finding existing code wrt some patent trial could be >> difficult, of course. seems a significant consideration. > > Sorry, not relevant. > > What _is_ relevant, if you want to challenge a patent, is to show > "prior > art" -- independent use of the method by others prior to applicant's > filing date. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Thu Nov 9 12:52:18 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061109194102.GA17673@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061109205218.17193.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. I'm going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. Rick Moen wrote: Hi, Vincent. A week ago, I sent this post, and have seen no reply. If you'd rather not say, that's fine -- but I'm just really curious about which Linux distributions so far you've installed and tried out (or, in the case of live-CD distributions, just tried out). ----- Forwarded message from rick ----- Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > To me it seems a bit overwhelming. I look at what Jim has gone through > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed and tried out? -- Cheers, A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will Rick Moen annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. -- Herm Albright rick at linuxmafia.com ----- End forwarded message ----- _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 9 13:23:43 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:23:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061109205218.17193.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061109194102.GA17673@linuxmafia.com> <20061109205218.17193.qmail@web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061109212343.GE9054@linuxmafia.com> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. > I'm going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. Awesome. If you'd like help with that, we'll be having a CABAL meeting this Saturday in Menlo Park -- but you probably don't need it, since Xandros has a really nice graphical installer with good hardware autorecognition. Enjoy! (Xandros has several editions. Some have additional software for Windows compatibility, such as Crossover Office, which lets you run most Winapps right from the Linux graphical desktop.) From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Thu Nov 9 13:42:41 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:42:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: <20061109212343.GE9054@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061109214241.6788.qmail@web82803.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the support. Since it is such an easy one, I thought I'd start with Xandros. That way I can work my way up to Fedora Core...Probably by the time I get there it'll be up to 7. Actually, I'll probably be eliminating winapps. But, one at a time...Thanks agin. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. > I'm going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. Awesome. If you'd like help with that, we'll be having a CABAL meeting this Saturday in Menlo Park -- but you probably don't need it, since Xandros has a really nice graphical installer with good hardware autorecognition. Enjoy! (Xandros has several editions. Some have additional software for Windows compatibility, such as Crossover Office, which lets you run most Winapps right from the Linux graphical desktop.) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Nov 9 13:46:47 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 13:46:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] more re Novell/MSFT and GPL In-Reply-To: References: <20061109202717.GD14771@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061109214647.GF9054@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > per government code, there is a lot of code written by government > employees, not contractors. Yep, you're right that the former is automatically public domain. (Of course, other people can then further modify that PD work, and their code contributions _would_ have copyright title.) > per patent vs copyright, i don't know how things have been resolved > recently: there was seeming confusion over whether software is a > written expression of something or an algorithm controlling a machine. > What's the latest? Your question assumes a mutually exclusive choice, where there in fact isn't any. Let's consider, oh, writing a Web browser. Case 1: Your name is Tim Berners-Lee, you're at CERN in Genevea, it's the year 1989, and you're using a NeXT workstation. You write a hypertext editing and viewing program for NeXTStep (a 4.2BSD fork with a nice graphical desktop based on Display PostScript). You call your hypertext program "WorldWideWeb" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldWideWeb). Per contract, CERN gets ownership of the copyright over your Objective C source code, and over any potential patent rights. CERN _could_ seek patent rights in various countries, if they could successfully argue that some techniques demonstrated in your work were sufficiently innovative (compared to prior hypertext techniques such as Xanadu, Hypercard, and others) as to be truly new and have no prior art elsewhere. (In the real world, CERN didn't do this.) CERN's copyright title (ownership) would prevent others from carrying out unauthorised copying of the WorldWideWeb for NeXTStep application, or of creating unauthorised derivative works using its codebase. However, in now way could it prevent others from writing wholly independent implementations of the same idea, e.g., Mosaic, Cello, and eventually Netscape Navigator and others. _If_ it had successfully patented particular of Berners-Lee's techniques exploited in that browsers, CERN could have forced third-party authors to either use different techniques in their implementations, or pay patent royalties. Case 2: Your name is Jim Stockford (or possibly "jim stockford"), you're in San Francisco, it's 2006, and you're using x86 Linux. You write a from-scratch Web browser that you then call NewWideWeb. As author, you automatically own copyright over your NetWideWeb source codebase, and any derivatives (including compiled binaries), just by inventing and writing it down. (There's an optional step where you register a copyright at Library of Congress, which merely buys you stronger enforcement rights.) You _might_ also try to apply for one or more patent, if you seriously think that, in 2006, your Web browser is actually doing something innovative even after 17 years of other people's efforts -- but frankly this doesn't seem likely, unless it's a really eccentric sort of Web browser. > per government code re patent, seems to me in the case of patent > issues that existing government code would or at least could > constitute prior art or design and play a part in patentable > determinations, yes? no? _Any_ documented third-party implementation of a specific useful technique prior to someone's attempt to patent it would constitute prior art, yes. From jim at well.com Fri Nov 10 10:58:26 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:58:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Apress UG Member: Review a Hot New Book? Message-ID: <777eaa816d11b9bb6cc8f62b723237b9@well.com> Begin forwarded message: > From: Janet Crosbie > Date: November 8, 2006 12:18:54 PM PST > To: jim at well.com > Subject: Apress UG Member: Review a Hot New Book? > > Apress Seeks New Reviewers! > > Apress is actively seeking fresh voices to write about our books. As a > publisher, we rely on independent writers and reviewers to speak > forcefully and honestly about our products to the larger technology > book-buying community. > > Which of these titles would you like to review immediately? > > ************************************ > > "Beginning XML with DOM and Ajax" > by Sas Jacobs | ISBN: 1-59059-676-5 > http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10131 > > "Pro Ajax and Java Frameworks" > By Nathaniel T. Schutta and Ryan Asleson | ISBN: 1-59059-677-3 > http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10142 > > ************************************ > > Please take a moment to read the review-writing guidelines we've > posted: http://www.apress.com/userGroups/writeareview.html. In > general, we like to see reviews posted to Amazon, Barnes and Noble, > and/or Bookpool--to name a few places. > > Please reply to me at janet at apress.com, if you or another group member > would be interested in posting a prompt, thorough review on either of > these books. > > Thank you in advance! > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1530 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Fri Nov 10 10:57:53 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:57:53 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, November 10 Message-ID: <755204338cbda568f0a84fae38b493c0@well.com> > Hello, > > We have some good news to announce. We've just increased the user group > discount to 35% off all books and PDFs. The discount code stays the > same--DSUG. And don't forget we still offer free shipping for orders in > the US of $29.95 or more. > > If you have any questions about this discount, the UG program, or need > to request books for your group, just send me an email. > > --Marsee > > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders > November 10, 2006 > ================================================================ > -Putting together a Holiday Gift List for your December Newsletter? > -Help--We need oreilly.com and Amazon Reviewers > -Put Up an Etel, MAKE, or CRAFT Banner, Get a Free Book > -Do you use Linkedin? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book Info > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Review Books are Available > Copies of our books are available for your members to review--just send > me an email to request books and and please include the book's ISBN > number (click on the "More Details" link to find the ISBN.) Let me know > if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for > shipping. > > ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews > Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. > For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: > > > ***Group Purchase Discounts are Available > Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in > touch with our sales department. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > General News or Inquiries > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Putting together a Holiday Gift List for your December Newsletter? > Let me know and I can create a customized list of books to include. > And don't forget our new iPod and digital photography books. > > > ***Help--We need oreilly.com and Amazon Reviewers > We are looking for UG members (or leaders) who can review our new > releases on Amazon or oreilly.com in the reader review sections. If you > or your members can help us, let me know. Pass our new release list > around at your next meeting or you can look at all our new > releases here: > > > > ***Put Up an Etel, MAKE, or CRAFT Banner, Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our discount banners on their > web sites. 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Ask your group leader for more information. > > For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: > > > > ***40 Digital Photo Retouching Techniques with Photoshop Elements > Publisher: Young Jin > ISBN: 8931433700 > This easy to follow, full color guide shows all digital photographers > how to make their photos look their best with dozens of well-organized, > hands-on techniques. Readers learn how to change or replace a color, > enhance faces, fix burred images, correct poor exposures, create a > slide > show and more. > > > > ***40 Digital Photography Techniques, 3rd Edition > Publisher: Young Jin > ISBN: 8931433697 > Digital Photography has truly reached the masses, and with this > friendly, full-color guide new users can immediately start having fun > with their digital cameras. It provides dozens of tips for taking > better > pictures and getting creative with digital photography at a remarkably > affordable price. > > > > ***Automating InDesign with Regular Expressions > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596529376 > If you need to make automated changes to InDesign documents beyond what > basic search and replace can handle, you need regular expressions, and > a > bit of scripting to make them work. This Short Cut explains both how to > write regular expressions, so you can find and replace the right > things, > and how to use them in InDesign specifically. > > > > ***A Grammar of Game Play > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > ISBN: 1933097159 > In this sequel to his bestselling and award-winning book, master game > designer Raph Koster now takes on the inner workings of how games are > expertly designed by professionals. Using the latest thinking from game > studies as well as years of experience, games are broken down and > revealed as models of reality. > > > > ***The Book of Python > Publisher: No Starch Press > ISBN: 1593271034 > "The Book of Python" begins with a discussion of Python's programming > environment, then moves on to more advanced topics, including object > oriented programming, interacting with operating systems, creating GUIs > and database interfaces, network programming, XML, web programming, and > much more. > > > > ***Build Your Own Ruby on Rails Web Application > Publisher: SitePoint > ISBN: 0975841955 > This practical hands-on guide for first-time Ruby on Rails programmers > will show you exact how you get started, from installing the required > software on your computer to the intriciacies of Ruby syntax. > > > > ***Configuring Juniper Networks NetScreen & SSG Firewalls > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597491187 > Configuring Juniper Networks NetScreen & SSG Firewalls is the only > complete reference to this family of products. It covers all of the > newly released features of the product line as highlighted by Juniper > Networks, including Deep Inspection, Integrated Intrusion Prevention, > Centralized, policy-based management, Virtualization, Built-in high > availability and Rapid Deployment. > > > > ***CRAFT: Volume 01 > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596529287 > "Craft" is the first project-based magazine dedicated to the > renaissance > that is occurring within the world of crafts. Volume 01, the premier > issue, features 23 projects with a twist! Make a programmable LED > shirt, > turn dud shoes into great knitted boots, felt an iPod cocoon, embroider > a skateboard, and much more. > > > > ***CSS: The Definitive Guide, Third Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596527330 > Updated to cover Internet Explorer 7, Microsoft's vastly improved > browser, this new edition includes content on positioning, lists and > generated content, table layout, user interface, paged media, and more. > > > > ***Essential CVS, Second Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596527039 > This easy-to-follow reference shows a variety of professionals how to > use the Concurrent Versions System (CVS), the open source tool that > lets > you manage versions of anything stored in files. > > > > ***Fast Guide to Propellerhead Reason, Third Edition > Publisher: PC Publishing > ISBN: 1870775279 > This in-depth guide, now in it's third edition, takes you through every > separate Reason device, including the analogue-style SubTractor synth, > the amazing Malstrom Graintrable synth, the two easy-to-use sample > players, the funky Dr:rex loop player, the vintage-style ReDrum drum > computer, the versatile Combinator, powerful MClass effects and the > quick and simple sequencer. > > > > ***FISMA Certification & Accreditation Handbook > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597491160 > All US federal agencies must certify and accredit all systems and > applications prior to putting them into operation. This is the only > book > that instructs IT Managers to adhere to federally mandated > certification > and accreditation requirements. > > > > ***Google Talking > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597490555 > Are you tired of running a dozen programs to stay in touch with the > people you care about? Are you looking for a way to call back home, > without spending an arm and a leg? Then you need to read Google > Talking! > Discover the "Google way" to instant message your friends, with the > power of voice and text! Make calls from your computer to any phone in > the world! > > > > ***How to Build an RSS 2.0 Feed (PDF) > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596529384 > This Short Cut will give you the hands-on knowledge you need to build > an > RSS 2.0 feed. Along the way you'll learn not only the mechanics of > building a feed, but industry-accepted best practices for creating > feeds > that perform well in various situations. Are you ready? Roll up your > sleeves, crack open a text editor, and let's build some feeds. > > > > ***Information Architecture for the World Wide Web, Third Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596527349 > This edition of the classic primer on web site design and navigation is > updated with recent examples, new scenarios, and new information on > best > practices. > > > > ***Inside the Machine > Publisher: No Starch Press > ISBN: 1593271042 > Written by the co-founder of the highly respected Ars Technica site, > this book begins with the fundamentals of computing, defining what a > computer is and using analogies, numerous 4-color diagrams, and clear > explanations to communicate the concepts that form the basis of modern > computing. > > > > ***iPod: The Missing Manual, Fifth Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596529783 > This new edition thoroughly covers the redesigned iPod Nanos, the video > iPod, the tiny Shuffle and the overhauled iTunes 7. Each page sports > easy-to-follow color graphics, crystal-clear explanations, and guidance > on the most useful things your iPod can do. > > > > ***Just Right Software Planning & Estimation > Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf > ISBN: 0977616622 > This book won't bore you with theoretical parametric models or tedious, > tree-killing paperwork-heavy processes. Instead, you get practical, > no-nonsense guidance for estimating and planning your software > projects, > mining techniques that work from both "sides" of the methodological > boundaries. > > > > ***Kismet Hacking > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597491179 > "Kismet Hacking" focuses specifically on the use of the Kismet wireless > tool for Linux users. This book covers everything a reader would need > to > know about Kismet, from the basic installation for the new user to > advanced topics such as creating Wireless Intrusion Detection Systems. > > > > ***Learning MySQL > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596008643 > "Learning MySQL" provides all the tools you need to set up and design > an > effective database. This richly detailed tutorial will help you design > scalable and flexible databases, create powerful queries using SQL, and > configure MySQL for improved security. > > > > ***Mastering Landscape Photography > Publisher: Rocky Nook > ISBN: 1933952067 > Thirteen essays on landscape photography by master photographer Alain > Briot. Topics include practical, technical, and aesthetic aspects of > photography to help photographers build and refine their skills. > > > > ***MySQL Cookbook, Second Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059652708X > You'll find dozens of short, focused pieces of code and hundreds of > worked-out examples that are perfect for programmers of all levels who > don't have the time (or expertise) to solve MySQL problems from > scratch. > The new edition covers MySQL 5.0 and the older but still widespread > MySQL 4.1. > > > > ***Network Monitoring with Nagios (PDF) > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596528191 > With this Short Cut guide, we'll go over how Nagios fits in the overall > network monitoring puzzle. We'll also cover installation and basic > usage. Finally, we'll show you how to extend Nagios with other tools to > extend functionality. > > > > ***Network Security Assessment > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597491012 > This book is unique in that it details both the management and > technical > skill and tools required to develop an effective vulnerability > management system. Business case studies and real world vulnerabilities > are used through the book. > > > > ***Network Security Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596527632 > This second edition of "Network Security Hacks" offers 125 concise and > practical hacks, including more information for Windows administrators, > hacks for wireless networking, and techniques to ensure privacy and > anonymity, including ways to evade network traffic analysis, encrypt > email and files, and protect against phishing attacks. > > > > ***O'Reilly Radar Web 2.0 Report > (Limited review copies available) > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN 0596527691 > "O'Reilly Radar's Web 2.0 Principles and Best Practices" lays out the > answers?the why, what, who, and how of Web 2.0. It's an indispensable > guide for technology decision-makers?executives, product strategists, > entrepreneurs, and thought leaders?who are ready to compete and prosper > in today's Web 2.0 world. > > > > ***Rails Deployment > Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf > ISBN: 0978739205 > This book will help you sleep better at night, knowing that your > application can handle anything that gets thrown at it. Come away with > the knowledge of how to optimize your Rails projects for speed and > concurrency. > > > > ***Rails for Java Developers > Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf > ISBN: 097761669X > If you are a Java programmer, you shouldn't have to start at the very > beginning. You already have deep experience with the design issues that > inspired Rails, and can use this background to quickly learn Ruby and > Rails. This book will be your guide to this new, but not strange, > territory. > > > > ***Saving Money and Time with Virtual Server (PDF) > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596528019 > This guide is aimed at network administrators who are interested in > ways > that Virtual Server 2005 can be implemented in their organizations in > order to save money and increase network productivity. It contains > information on setting up a virtual network, virtual consolidation, > virtual security, virtual honeypots, and more. > > > > ***Scanning Negatives and Slides > Publisher: Rocky Nook > ISBN: 1933952016 > The most common software tools for scanning (SilverFast, VueScan, > NikonScan) are not only covered extensively in the book, but are also > provided on a CD along with other useful tools for image editing, as > well as numerous sample scans. > > > > ***SQL Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596527993 > "SQL Hacks" offers 100 hacks--unique tips and tools--that bring you the > knowledge of experts who apply what they know in the real world to help > you take full advantage of the expressive power of SQL. You'll find > practical techniques to address complex data manipulation problems. > > > > ***Web Scripting Little Black Book > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > ISBN: 1933097191 > The Web Scripting Little Black Book will help administrators take full > advantage of the most popular scripting languages and extensions, > covering topics such as automating Web pages and managing content, > database setups and automation, essential e-commerce scripts, user > support topics, securing scripts, FTP access, and much more. > > > > ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions > MAKE Magazine Subscriptions > The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you > subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--one plus?four? > more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this > great offer for UG Members: five volumes for the cost of four. > Subscribe at: > > > > ***Craft Magazine Subscriptions > The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you > subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus > four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this > great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four. > Subscribe at: > > > ================================================ > Upcoming Events > ================================================ > ***For more events, please see: > > > > ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), The May Gallery, St. Louis, MO > Julieanne Kost work will be on display until November 24. > http://www.webster.edu/maygallery/ > > > ***Julia Wilkinson ("The eBay Price Guide"), > 29th Annual National Press Club Book Fair, Washington, D.C--November 15 > No Starch author Julia Wilkinson will be among those showcasing their > work at the 29th Annual National Press Club Book Fair in Washington, > D.C. The event attracts hundreds of fans who enjoy browsing the > children?s books, cookbooks, photography books, Washington expos?s, > histories, and best-selling fiction. Funds raised by the Book Fair will > benefit the Press Club?s Eric Friedheim Library & News Information > Center, a resource for journalists worldwide. The event opens to the > public at 6:00pm. > > > > ***Visit O'Reilly at OpenCON 2006, Venice, Italy--December?2-3 > OpenCON is the first conference entirely dedicated to OpenBSD and > organized by OpenBEER, the Italian OpenBSD users group. Topics include > information security, secure programming, and anything related to > OpenBSD. Come and visit the O'Reilly booth where you will be able to > purchase our books at a discount. > > > > ***Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography"), > Professional Image Editing Workshop, Pacifica, CA--December?2-5 > Photographer and author Stephen Johnson presents a four day workshop to > explore digital photographic editing. Hands-on help and demonstrations > of his use of editing tools with restraint and finesse will benefit all > of your digital photography work. > > > > ***O'Reilly Digital Media Authors at Book Passage, Corte Madera, > CA--January 7 > Ask the experts. Leading digital photographers and authors, Mikkel > Aaland, Stephen Johnson, Ken Milburn, and Derrick Story will be around > to answer all your digital photography questions. > > > > ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat") Project: Photoshop Lightroom School > Tour > Author Julieanne Kost will provide students with an in-depth seminar on > using Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe Lightroom beta, highlighting their > combined support for a digital workflow. For a complete list of cities > and dates, go to: > > > > ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP/It's Your Business Event Series ? > Author Peter Krogh will be teaching the "Get Your DAM Stuff Together" > track for ASMP's "It's Your Business" Series. For a complete list of > cities and dates, go to: > > > > ***Eddie Tapp ("Photoshop Workflow Setups") Pro Tips Tour > Author Eddie Tapp will teach you the complete digital workflow from > capture to final output. During this seminar, Monte Zucker and Eddie > Tapp cover concept to completion--posing, pixels, Photoshop, and > printing--everything needed to create beautiful digital photographic > portraits. For a complete list of cities and dates, go to: > > > ================================================ > Conference News > ================================================ > ***Registration is now open for the 2007 Emerging Telephony Conference > Explore the strategies for taming disruption and exploit opportunities > being created by web telephony innovations. > > > Use code "etel07usrg" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > ***Speak at RailsConf > O'Reilly Media and Ruby Central are seeking leaders for RailsConf > sessions and tutorials. Are you a hacker, Rubyist, trainer, web > developer, and/or entrepreneur with something to share? If so, submit a > proposal. > > > ================================================ > News From O'Reilly & Beyond > ================================================ > --------------------- > General News > --------------------- > You Choose: PDF or Print > > The following O'Reilly titles are now available in print or PDF: > > -ActionScript 3.0 Cookbook > > > -Ajax Hacks > > -CSS Cookbook > > -DNS and BIND > > -HTML & XHTML: The Definitive Guide > > > -Google Hacks > > -Ubuntu Hacks > > -Web Design in a Nutshell > > > ***Web 2.0 Summit 2006 Media Coverage > Read all the announcements, articles, blogs, photos, and podcasts > made at the Web 2.0 Summit in San Francisco. > > > > ***Call Yourself a Programmer? > Announcing the O'Reilly Code Quiz, a curiously addictive game that'll > stress test your coding knowledge. Brought to you by O'Reilly Labs, > where all good things begin as zeros and ones. > > > > ***User Group Members Receive a Special 30% Discount on > O'Reilly Learning Courses > As an O'Reilly User Group member, you save on all the courses in > the following University of Illinois Certificate Series: > -Linux/Unix System Administration > -Web Programming > -Open Source Programming > -.NET Programming > > To redeem, use Promotion Code "ORALL1," good for a 30% discount, > in Step #3 of the enrollment process. Each course comes with a free > O'Reilly book and a 7-day money-back guarantee. Register online: > > > > ***Work for O'Reilly > We have immediate openings for the following: > -Conferences Communications Associate > -Conferences Sales Associate > -Interactive Marketing Manager (Safari Books Online) > -Mac Systems Administrator > -Marketing Programs Manager (Safari Books Online) > -Publicist, Conferences > -Sales Manager, Conferences > -Senior Software Engineer (Java/Perl/MySQL/Linux/XML/Web Services) > -Sr. Systems Administrator > -Sr. Web Developer (Linux/Apache/MySql/Perl and Open Source) > -Sr. Web Producer > > For more information and more job openings, go to: > > > --------------------- > Open Source > --------------------- > ***Getting Started with WSGI > Python 2.5 added support for the WSGI standard. This is a specification > for web programming that allows interoperability between frameworks and > components. It's also terribly easy to use. Jason Briggs introduces > WSGI > and gives the background you need to use it productively. > wsgi.html> > > > ***Open Tools for MySQL Administrators > The MySQL distribution provides several tools for database developers > and administrators, but they don't always work everywhere. Fortunately, > the worldwide MySQL community has produced plenty of useful tools. > Baron > Schwartz surveys the possibilities and offers suggestions for what you > should use. > > > > ***Developing High Performance Asynchronous IO Applications > When concurrency and latency are your bottlenecks, synchronous IO is a > problem--even in a multithreaded or multiprocess model. This is > especially evident when dealing with high volumes of incoming mail, > especially if much of it is spam. Stas Bekman and his team at > MailChannels recently built a scalable, modern, event-based system for > asynchronous IO. Here's how they did it. > asynchronous_events.html> > > --------------------- > Digital Media > --------------------- > ***Inside Aperture--Community for Serious Photographers > Our Inside Aperture site draws upon community expertise to > provide you with tips and real-life experiences from professional > shooters who use Apple's premier photo management application to > organize, edit, and output their images. This site features weblogs, > articles, podcasts, and tutorials?-all focused to help you improve your > digital photography workflow. > > > > ***Top Ten Aperture Features > Apple's ground-breaking, workflow tool for professional photographers > has caused quite a stir in the imaging community. After working with > Aperture for a year, I've decided that although it's not perfect, it > has > some incredible and exciting features that photographers can really > use. > features.html> > > > ***Winners of the Photoshop Cook-Off Contest announced at PhotoPlus > Expo 2006 > Grand Prize Winner Suzanne Pitts and ten additional winners in five > categories were selected from hundreds of submissions created by > Photoshop aficionados. Entrants excitedly responded to the opportunity > to "cook" their digital entries using "recipes" from any of five > O'Reilly Cookbooks. Pitts, the grand prizewinner, received a prize > package worth more than $9,600, including a digital camera and printer. > The five category winners were awarded packages worth more than $3,000 > each. The total value of sponsors' prizes exceeds $27,000. Cook-Off > Sponsors included Adobe, iStockPhoto, Lowepro, and Epson. Learn more > about all the winners here, > > > --------------------- > Mac > --------------------- > ***Making a Smooth Move from .Mac to Google > Matthew Russell presents a practical approach for a smooth move from > .Mac to a Google-centric web experience. Getting your email, address > book, calendar, online storage, online photos, and blog squared away > are > all covered in this detailed transition plan. > move-from-mac-to-google.html> > > > ***Text Tricks and More Text Tricks > We've covered text editors here before. We know, from various posts at > the Mac DevCenter blog, that our readers are often as fanatical about > using plain text as we are. Tips on using your editor of choice are > easy > to find, but we thought it would be fun to gather a whole bunch of them > together for the first time; not only to spread the word, but to invite > our readers to add their own tips and time-savers. We've also asked a > handful of Mac users to contribute their own favorite text tricks. > > > --------------------- > Java > --------------------- > ***Advanced Java Content Repository API > First presented in "What Is Java Content Repository," JSR-170 offers a > standard means for content management systems to present their > persistent data stores to Java applications. In this article, Sunil > Patil explores some of JCR's optional features--namely, the very useful > concepts of versioning and observability. > repository.html> > > > ***Scaling Enterprise Java on 64-bit Multi-Core X86-Based Servers > Today's enterprise server--indeed, the environment--isn't what it was > when Java was born. Slow networked machines have been replaced by fast, > 64-bit multi-core servers that can house all your tiers in one box or > even virtualize servers within the server. This has a significant > effect > on the design and deployment of your Java enterprise application, and > Michael Yuan and Dave Jaffe show you how to get the most out of your > hardware. > java-on-64-bit-multi-core.html> > > --------------------- > Sys Admin/Web > --------------------- > ***Demystifying LDAP Data > Is LDAP a database or a protocol? Is it understandable and deployable > without reading a thousand pages of explanation and documentation? > Brian > Jones explains LDAP schemas and the layout of data to help you > understand what you can store and how you can retrieve it. > ldap-data.html> > > > ***OpenBSD 4.0: Pufferix's Adventures > On October 18th, OpenBSD celebrated its 11th birthday. Now it's time > for > the release of OpenBSD 4.0. To celebrate both milestones, Federico > Biancuzzi interviewed over 20 developers to discuss the new features of > this release and the continual work to get hardware specifications from > vendors. > > > --------------------- > Podcasts > --------------------- > ***Ken Milburn Unplugged > Take a listen. The author of Digital Photography Expert Techniques, > Second Edition knew Dan Rather in college, started his career taking > publicity photos of Hollywood starlets, and shot album covers for > Capitol Records. Ken talks to O'Reilly staffer Sara Peyton about his > career, tips and tricks, and creating the wow factor. (16 minutes 25 > seconds) > unplugged.html> > > > ******Deke McClelland on Software > O'Reilly author Deke McClelland talks to Mac Edition Radio's Harris > Fogel about his series of bestselling One-on-One books and Photoshop > Elements. > module=Pagesetter&func=viewpub&tid=3&pid=65> > > > ***MAKE Podcast: Colin Berry > Colin Berry reads "Spinout," the touching story he wrote for MAKE, > Volume > 07, about his brother's efforts to build and race a car in the soap box > derby in Longmont, Colo. Unfortunately, he was up against more than > just > his own bad luck. > > > --------------------- > Web > --------------------- > ***Django Jumpstart: Build a To-Do List in 30 Minutes > Django started life at a newspaper whose staff needed to develop > full-featured web applications to meet newsroom deadlines. The result? > One speedy framework! In this hands-on tutorial, James helps us build a > handy to-do list manager in just 30 minutes--perfect for your next > deadline. > > > > ***Bullet Proof HTML: 37 Steps to Perfect Markup > So, you want to code your own HTML? Perhaps you just want to polish > your > skills, or have a few nagging questions answered. In this comprehensive > FAQ, Tommy gives you all the information you'll need to understand the > science--and practice the art--of HTML. > > > > Until next time-- > > Marsee Henon > > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://ug.oreilly.com/creativemedia/ > ================================================================ > From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 11:00:59 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:00:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] More the deal between Microsoft and Novell In-Reply-To: <777eaa816d11b9bb6cc8f62b723237b9@well.com> Message-ID: <20061110190059.72813.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> It looks like it might not be a Microsoft victory, although it is too early to say. Tony *** Novell deal to cost Microsoft hundreds of millions By Robert McMillan, IDG News Service, 11/08/06 Microsoft will spend more than $440 million in licensing fees and sales and marketing costs over the next five years to keep up its end of the historic Linux agreement it made with Novell, according to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission documents filed by Novell on Tuesday. Related links The two companies announced the surprise agreement late last week, billing it as an effort to "bridge the divide between open source and proprietary source software," according to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer. Under the deal, Microsoft has agreed to offer marketing and sales support for Novell's SUSE Linux and to co-develop technologies that will help customers integrate the competing operating systems. Microsoft has also agreed to distribute 70,000 SUSE Linux subscription certificates so Microsoft customers can get SUSE updates and technical support from Novell. But the most controversial component of the deal is a patent cooperation agreement under which Microsoft has promised not to launch patent lawsuits against Novell customers. In a note published Tuesday, Novell said this agreement amounts to a "covenant" between Microsoft and Novell's customers, but Linux advocates maintain that it is effectively a patent cross-licensing agreement between Novell and Microsoft. Such an agreement would be in violation of Linux's software license, the GNU General Public License (GPL), which does not allow distributors to enter into exclusive agreements with patent holders. Novell disputed this idea. "Novell's customers receive a covenant not to sue directly from Microsoft," the company said on its Web site. "We have not agreed with Microsoft to any condition that would contradict the conditions of the GPL, and we are in full compliance." Free software advocate Bruce Perens said that this argument was unlikely to hold up in court and the fact that Novell is paying Microsoft more than $40 million as its part of the patent agreement only makes it obvious that the deal amounts to patent cross-licensing. "The financial consideration makes it even more clear that there is a patent licensing agreement for money going on here," he said. The most likely candidate to sue Novell or Microsoft over an alleged GPL violation is the Free Software Foundation, which claims copyright to significant portions of the Linux operating system, Perens said. FSF General Counsel Eben Moglen said he was looking into the Microsoft-Novell deal but could not comment on the documents released by Novell. In Tuesday's filings, Novell said Microsoft will make an initial payment of $240 million for the SUSE certificates and will also spend a total of $34 million on sales efforts, as well as $12 million per year on marketing over the life of the five-year agreement. Under the patent agreement, Microsoft will pay Novell $108 million up front and Novell will pay Microsoft a percentage of revenue that adds up to no less than $40 million over five years. Microsoft has also agreed that it will not engage in a similar certificate give-away with another Linux distributor for the next three years. From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 11:06:28 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:06:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] .net now available in Linux In-Reply-To: <20061110190059.72813.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061110190628.61383.qmail@web50406.mail.yahoo.com> .net, a windows application is now available for Linux. This is an integrating move. Tony *** Mono upgrade targets Linux desktop applications By James Niccolai, IDG News Service, 11/09/06 Novell has announced an upgrade to its Mono software that should make it easier for developers to port .Net desktop applications to Linux. Related links Novell releases Mono 1.0 06/30/04 Mono is an open source implementation of Microsoft Corp.'s .Net development software. It aims to let developers take advantage of Microsoft's .Net programming tools to create applications that will run on Linux and other non-Microsoft operating systems. The software was conceived as a way to bring .Net applications to the Linux desktop, but initial versions supported primarily server applications because that side of the development work turned out to be faster and simpler, said Miguel de Icaza, leader of the Mono project and a vice president at Novell, which acquired Mono in 2003 through its purchase of Ximian Inc. The new version of Mono released on Thursday, version 1.2, adds support for Windows Forms, the graphical user interface APIs (application programming interfaces) in .Net. That will make it easier for developers to port client applications written in .Net to Linux and other OSes, De Icaza said. Version 1.2 also adds support for applications written in C# 2.0, the current version of the .Net programming language. Other enhancements include significant improvements in Mono's performance and memory management, de Icaza said. The update is available now and is compatible with prior versions. "Any program that worked in Mono 1.1 will work in Mono 1.2," de Icaza said. Like the prior version, it will also allow .Net applications to run on Mac OS X, Solaris and other flavors of Unix. Its release comes after Microsoft and Novell announced a broad agreement intended to make life easier for customers running Windows and Novell's SUSE Linux operating system. There's nothing in that agreement about Mono -- de Icaza said he learned of the deal only a week ago -- but he hopes it will produce some positive knock-on effects for Mono. Mono is a tricky proposition for Microsoft. It can benefit its customers by making it easier for developers familiar with Microsoft's tools to create applications for Linux. But Microsoft would also be reluctant to wholeheartedly support a technology that makes it easier for customers to switch to Linux. Novell made its announcement at Microsoft's Tech Ed Developers' Conference & Expo in Barcelona, where it has a booth on the show floor. But de Icaza said he gave his presentations to developers in hotels away from the event. "I don't think Microsoft would really want me to be a speaker at their show," he said. Still, the Mono team has a good relationship with Microsoft developers and plans further products based around the company's software. De Icaza has contacted Microsoft about doing an implementation of its WPF/E (Windows Presentation Foundation Everywhere) technology, which lets graphics created for Windows Vista applications run on other OSes and on the Web. He also wants to do a version of CardSpace (formerly InfoCard), a new authentication technology planned for Vista. Mono's development lags behind that of .Net. While it has yet to fully support .Net 2.0, Microsoft has already released .Net 3.0 to developers. And the version of Windows Forms supported today is version 1.1, which is already about a year old. De Icaza expects to release a technical preview of Mono 2.0, which should offer full compatibility with .Net 2.0, in March, with the final software likely to ship before the end of 2007. That would put Mono about 15 months behind Microsoft's development of .Net, de Icaza said. "I'd like to narrow [the gap], but it's not too bad because it still takes a long time before people actually adopt new technologies after they are released," he said. Mono is available as a free download. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From jim at well.com Fri Nov 10 11:13:54 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:13:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] the colo box project Message-ID: <14fd8e862ea540206ba8c99a7178597b@well.com> Tomorrow, Saturday, is your last chance to come inspect the computer that a few of us built and that ActNet finished up--see how it turned out, ask questions.... Some time this coming week I expect to take it to the ServePath/ColoServe Spear Street location. i'm filling out the ServePath/ColoServe forms today. Tomorrow, Saturday, I'll install and configure the CentOS software on the box, this per prior email suggestions. Most people at last Sunday's meeting expressed interest in visiting the colo site that Paul Lancaster represents. But none have responded to suggestions as to when. For November how about any Tuesday evening or a Monday evening that's not our meeting night (i.e. not 11/20). What say? From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Nov 10 11:18:21 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:18:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] More the deal between Microsoft and Novell In-Reply-To: <20061110190059.72813.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> References: <777eaa816d11b9bb6cc8f62b723237b9@well.com> <20061110190059.72813.qmail@web50405.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061110191821.GJ14771@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Tony (vze2jy85 at yahoo.com): > It looks like it might not be a Microsoft victory, > although it is too early to say. I'd say establishing a precedent suggesting that people running Linux systems need to pay Microsoft Corporation patent royalties, _especially_ when it's on patents they don't even have to identify, nor identify what code allegedly infringes those patents, is significant. The community has always been willing to do the work to either avoid patented techniques in the first place, or secure royalty-free licensing of those patent rights (e.g., PDF), or get the patents invalidated in court. However, all of those tactics require identification and scrutiny of the patents in question. It's pretty much irrelevant who's paying how much to whom. The important part is that patent protection money is being extracted against a Linux distribution, with the patents themselves even being brought before the public, to see what it's all about. From pavell at genesyslab.com Fri Nov 10 14:09:39 2006 From: pavell at genesyslab.com (Pavel Livchits) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:09:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Message-ID: Vincent: If you need good desktop distro, Mepis (SimplyMEPIS 6.0 on single CD) is definitely the choice: neat, smooth, stable. www.mepis.org On http://distrowatch.com/ Mepis is #4. I recently erased my windowze on my corporate desktop (those updates/restarts, explorer glitches are killing me) and tried several distros as a substitution: Linspire, Freespire, Ubuntu, Mandriva, CentOS. 2nd choice is CentOS. I like it as it's quite sophisticated and stable (but also ascetic and need 4 CDs to burn). I like Fedora but prefer stability over the "bleeding edge". -- Pavel Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... To: Rick Moen , sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20061109205218.17193.qmail at web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. I'm going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. Rick Moen wrote: Hi, Vincent. A week ago, I sent this post, and have seen no reply. If you'd rather not say, that's fine -- but I'm just really curious about which Linux distributions so far you've installed and tried out (or, in the case of live-CD distributions, just tried out). ----- Forwarded message from rick ----- Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > To me it seems a bit overwhelming. I look at what Jim has gone through > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed and tried out? From pavell at genesyslab.com Fri Nov 10 14:18:43 2006 From: pavell at genesyslab.com (Pavel Livchits) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:18:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] More the deal between Microsoft and Novell Message-ID: > It looks like it might not be a Microsoft victory, although it is too early to say. > Tony > Microsoft will spend more than $440 million in licensing fees and sales and marketing > costs over the next five years to keep up its end of the historic Linux agreement it made with Novell, according to U.S. Expect that Microsoft just rise the tax to cover the burden. It just passes it to a consumer. -- Pavel From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com Fri Nov 10 14:25:05 2006 From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:25:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061110222505.51669.qmail@web82805.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Pavel, Well, on my "corporate" desktop, technically I could do it. But, I think the EPA would get a little upset. It might be nice to do it. Lotus notes and Zenworks is just such a hog of RAM. Does anybody know what Zenworks is? I do like being able to have two email accounts open at the sametime in Notes. But, still a pain. Got alternatives? Pavel Livchits wrote: Vincent: If you need good desktop distro, Mepis (SimplyMEPIS 6.0 on single CD) is definitely the choice: neat, smooth, stable. www.mepis.org On http://distrowatch.com/ Mepis is #4. I recently erased my windowze on my corporate desktop (those updates/restarts, explorer glitches are killing me) and tried several distros as a substitution: Linspire, Freespire, Ubuntu, Mandriva, CentOS. 2nd choice is CentOS. I like it as it's quite sophisticated and stable (but also ascetic and need 4 CDs to burn). I like Fedora but prefer stability over the "bleeding edge". -- Pavel Message: 3 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... To: Rick Moen , sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20061109205218.17193.qmail at web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. I'm going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. Rick Moen wrote: Hi, Vincent. A week ago, I sent this post, and have seen no reply. If you'd rather not say, that's fine -- but I'm just really curious about which Linux distributions so far you've installed and tried out (or, in the case of live-CD distributions, just tried out). ----- Forwarded message from rick ----- Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > To me it seems a bit overwhelming. I look at what Jim has gone through > to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be > competent and employable with it. Daunting. Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you installed and tried out? _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Fri Nov 10 15:02:50 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:02:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: the colo box project Message-ID: <45820bee4fe39ae302c76eab35f28040@well.com> i'm planning to leave for Rick Moen's CABAL get-together sometime after 2 PM and certainly before 4 PM. You, Bobbie, and you all, sf-lug mailing list members, are welcome to come to my house any time before 2 PM ('member i might choose to leave at 2, so come earlier for a good look). Let me know you're coming and I'll email you my telephone and address. Anyone is welcome to hitch a ride with me to Rick's (Menlo Park), but be advised I'm leaving around 7 PM to get to a film festival in Morgan Hill (you're welcome to hitch there, too). I may not be coming back to SF (I'll sleep on my boat in Redwood City), so you may have to figure out how to get sleep Saturday night (I don't advise the boat, it'll be coldddd). Begin forwarded message: > From: bobbie sellers > Date: November 10, 2006 1:26:39 PM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: Re: the colo box project > Reply-To: bliss at california.com > > Hi jim stockford, on 11/10/06, you wrote: > > >> Tomorrow, Saturday, is your last chance to come >> inspect the computer that a few of us built and that >> ActNet finished up--see how it turned out, ask >> questions.... > > What time of day? > >> Some time this coming week I expect to take it to >> the ServePath/ColoServe Spear Street location. > >> i'm filling out the ServePath/ColoServe forms today. > >> Tomorrow, Saturday, I'll install and configure the >> CentOS software on the box, this per prior email >> suggestions. > >> Most people at last Sunday's meeting expressed >> interest in visiting the colo site that Paul Lancaster >> represents. But none have responded to suggestions >> as to when. >> For November how about any Tuesday evening >> or a Monday evening that's not our meeting night >> (i.e. not 11/20). >> What say? > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > later > Bobbie Sellers > > -- > bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA* > bliss at california dot com > > Welcome to Borger King. Your way will be assimilated. > * With mustard, pickle and secret nanite sauce.* > ** > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2606 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Fri Nov 10 15:05:10 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 15:05:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <08c21bd2e2e0ef2ff30823768c53796a@well.com> i second pavel's choices: Mepis is my favorite live CD. CentOS is my favorite install distro. I usually have an extra copy or two of Mepis, tho' I sell it for my cost (about $3, includes shipping). On Nov 10, 2006, at 2:09 PM, Pavel Livchits wrote: > Vincent: > If you need good desktop distro, Mepis (SimplyMEPIS 6.0 on single CD) > is > definitely the choice: neat, smooth, stable. > www.mepis.org On http://distrowatch.com/ Mepis is #4. > > I recently erased my windowze on my corporate desktop (those > updates/restarts, explorer glitches are killing me) > and tried several distros as a substitution: Linspire, Freespire, > Ubuntu, Mandriva, CentOS. > > 2nd choice is CentOS. I like it as it's quite sophisticated and stable > (but also ascetic and need 4 CDs to burn). > I like Fedora but prefer stability over the "bleeding edge". > -- > Pavel > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:52:18 -0800 (PST) > From: vincent polite > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: Linux on speed... > To: Rick Moen , sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <20061109205218.17193.qmail at web82812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Well, as usual, I do to much. I've played with RedHat and Linspire. I'm > going to put Xandros on my laptop, probably next week. > > Rick Moen wrote: Hi, Vincent. A week ago, I sent > this post, and have seen no reply. If you'd rather not say, that's > fine > -- but I'm just really curious about which Linux distributions so far > you've installed and tried out (or, in the case of live-CD > distributions, just tried out). > > > ----- Forwarded message from rick ----- > > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 18:02:25 -0800 > To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux on speed... > > Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com): > >> To me it seems a bit overwhelming. I look at what Jim has gone through > >> to learn, and I think about my how much I would need to learn to be >> competent and employable with it. Daunting. > > Vincent, out of pure curiosity, which distributions _have_ you > installed > and tried out? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jturner at nonzerosums.org Fri Nov 10 22:20:22 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 22:20:22 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: the colo box project In-Reply-To: <45820bee4fe39ae302c76eab35f28040@well.com> References: <45820bee4fe39ae302c76eab35f28040@well.com> Message-ID: I'll sign up to check out the colo box. Lemme know the "not before" time. And I'll take a Mepis CD if you've got one... Shoot me your address? -- jt On Nov 10, 2006, at 3:02 PM, jim stockford wrote: > > i'm planning to leave for Rick Moen's CABAL > get-together sometime after 2 PM and certainly > before 4 PM. > You, Bobbie, and you all, sf-lug mailing list > members, are welcome to come to my house > any time before 2 PM ('member i might choose > to leave at 2, so come earlier for a good look). > Let me know you're coming and I'll email you > my telephone and address. > > Anyone is welcome to hitch a ride with me to > Rick's (Menlo Park), but be advised I'm leaving > around 7 PM to get to a film festival in Morgan > Hill (you're welcome to hitch there, too). > I may not be coming back to SF (I'll sleep on > my boat in Redwood City), so you may have to > figure out how to get sleep Saturday night (I > don't advise the boat, it'll be coldddd). > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: bobbie sellers >> Date: November 10, 2006 1:26:39 PM PST >> To: jim stockford >> Subject: Re: the colo box project >> Reply-To: bliss at california.com >> >> Hi jim stockford, on 11/10/06, you wrote: >> >> >>> Tomorrow, Saturday, is your last chance to come >>> inspect the computer that a few of us built and that >>> ActNet finished up--see how it turned out, ask >>> questions.... >> >> What time of day? >> >>> Some time this coming week I expect to take it to >>> the ServePath/ColoServe Spear Street location. >> >>> i'm filling out the ServePath/ColoServe forms today. >> >>> Tomorrow, Saturday, I'll install and configure the >>> CentOS software on the box, this per prior email >>> suggestions. >> >>> Most people at last Sunday's meeting expressed >>> interest in visiting the colo site that Paul Lancaster >>> represents. But none have responded to suggestions >>> as to when. >>> For November how about any Tuesday evening >>> or a Monday evening that's not our meeting night >>> (i.e. not 11/20). >>> What say? >> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> later >> Bobbie Sellers >> >> -- >> bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA* >> bliss at california dot com >> >> Welcome to Borger King. Your way will be assimilated. >> * With mustard, pickle and secret nanite sauce.* >> ** >> > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Sat Nov 11 08:20:20 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:20:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: the colo box project In-Reply-To: References: <45820bee4fe39ae302c76eab35f28040@well.com> Message-ID: <2085a3b93ee8486022c155e88fcc836b@well.com> 6924 fulton, not before 8:19 AM. 415 823 4590 glad you're coming. On Nov 10, 2006, at 10:20 PM, Jason Turner wrote: > I'll sign up to check out the colo box.? Lemme know the "not before" > time.? And I'll take a Mepis CD if you've got one... > > Shoot me your address? > > -- > jt > > > On Nov 10, 2006, at 3:02 PM, jim stockford wrote: > >> >> ? i'm planning to leave for Rick Moen's CABAL >> get-together sometime after 2 PM and certainly >> before 4 PM. >> ? You, Bobbie, and you all, sf-lug mailing list >> members, are welcome to come to my house >> any time before 2 PM ('member i might choose >> to leave at 2, so come earlier for a good look). >> ? Let me know you're coming and I'll email you >> my telephone and address. >> >> ? Anyone is welcome to hitch a ride with me to >> Rick's (Menlo Park), but be advised I'm leaving >> around 7 PM to get to a film festival in Morgan >> Hill (you're welcome to hitch there, too). >> ? I may not be coming back to SF (I'll sleep on >> my boat in Redwood City), so you may have to >> figure out how to get sleep Saturday night (I >> don't advise the boat, it'll be coldddd). >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: bobbie sellers >>> Date: November 10, 2006 1:26:39 PM PST >>> To: jim stockford >>> Subject: Re: the colo box project >>> Reply-To: bliss at california.com >>> >>> Hi jim stockford, on 11/10/06, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>> ? Tomorrow, Saturday, is your last chance to come >>>> inspect the computer that a few of us built and that >>>> ActNet finished up--see how it turned out, ask >>>> questions.... >>> >>> ? What time of day? >>> >>>> ? Some time this coming week I expect to take it to >>>> the ServePath/ColoServe Spear Street location. >>> >>>> ? i'm filling out the ServePath/ColoServe forms today. >>> >>>> ? Tomorrow, Saturday, I'll install and configure the >>>> CentOS software on the box, this per prior email >>>> suggestions. >>> >>>> ? Most people at last Sunday's meeting expressed >>>> interest in visiting the colo site that Paul Lancaster >>>> represents. But none have responded to suggestions >>>> as to when. >>>> ? For November how about any Tuesday evening >>>> or a Monday evening that's not our meeting night >>>> (i.e. not 11/20). >>>> ? What say? >>> >>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sf-lug mailing list >>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> ? later >>> ? Bobbie Sellers >>> >>> -- >>> ?bobbie sellers - (Back to Angband) Team *AMIGA* >>> ? bliss at california dot com >>> >>> ?Welcome to Borger King. Your way will be assimilated. >>> ? * With mustard, pickle and secret nanite sauce.* >>> ** >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3194 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim at well.com Sat Nov 11 08:47:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 08:47:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] ride to and from CABAL tonight Message-ID: <0aaebff5cff23b873d1b54b7f74e5214@well.com> wanna ride down and back? I'm driving down to Menlo Park to Rick Moen's CABAL installfest this afternoon, leaving sometime after 2 PM, hopefully not too much after. I plan to return to San Francisco this evening, hopefully 9 PM or so. I'm taking the colo box, which bobbi and jason will inspect today at my house (you're welcome, too) and will build (or rebuild) it there. This is a chance to check out the CABAL thing and the colo box hardware and the CentOS build all at the same time, complete with free ride to and fro (i can pick people up who live west of Van Ness; door-to-door home delivery at night for all, anywhere in San Francisco). lemme know by email with your contact info before 1:00 PM today. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 11 13:16:46 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:16:46 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] ride to and from CABAL tonight In-Reply-To: <0aaebff5cff23b873d1b54b7f74e5214@well.com> References: <0aaebff5cff23b873d1b54b7f74e5214@well.com> Message-ID: <20061111211645.GN14771@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > wanna ride down and back? A few things to note: 1. I'm also quite glad to pick people up from the Menlo Park CalTrain station (which otherwise is a generally pleasant but long 2 mile walk away from Chez Moen). 2. Tradition dictates that I provide that famous Scandinavian specialty "garlic bread", plus I generally fire up the barbecue and cook something. (That would be pork, beef, or some cute furry woodland creature or other. Vegetarians of various stripes are also cheerfully accomodated, though you may have to bring your own cookables.) After all, what use are the suburbs, if not for barbecue and plentiful free parking? Many people bring food in varying quantities; nobody is required or expected. There's always ample for everyone (especially if you're not picky and don't mind adventures in dining). I'm glad to ferry people back to CalTrain or BART (your choice of Colma or Daly City station) at the end of the evening. No need to keep one eye on your watch; we want people to have a good time. 3. People are welcome to come and go at any time from 4 pm to midnight. At midnight, we start making meaningful glances at the door and our watches, yawning theatrically, and serving hot coffee, by way of broad hints. 4. Until now, this year, we've been mostly outdoors on the back porch and backyard, though it's been getting chilly enough that once or twice people moved indoors, early. From the look of things (am posting this from Moraga), today we've finally run out of luck, and will redeploy somehow in my living room and dining room, etc. We're relatively new to this, my old family house, and need to work things out as we did at the old place a few blocks away. So, what I'm saying is, expect a minor amount of chaos, since we're new to this particular logistical problem. (Ordinarily, the outdoor area would be extremely pleasant and spacious.) Weather report says: Generally clear in the evening, probably somewhere around 50 degrees F. In other words, you _might_ be happy among the outdoor bunch, but only if you dress warmly. 5. List of CDs/DVDs on-site to use: http://linuxmafia.com/cabal/installfest/#distros . There are a few I haven't yet updated, e.g., I have some FC6 DVDs, a trial version of Xandros, and probably some Ubuntu Edgy Eft stuff somewhere. 6. There is wired and wireless networking with (slightly pokey) Internet access. E.g., you can reasonably get package updates and other stuff, but would get frustrated waiting to download ISOs. Sorry, we're a bit far from the telco central office, so aDSL is a bit impaired. You're welcome to borrow from our large collection of spare keyboards, mice, ethernet cards, ethernet cables, etc. -- but we recently got rid of almost all our old monitors, leaving qty. one 17" LCD. So, if you need a monitor, you're better off bringing yours -- or you might have to arm-wrestle over borrowing rights to mine. No need to bring power strips. We have enough of those that we could dasiy-chain power to downtown Menlo Park. House wiring is per the technological state of the art, circa 1953, with quaint 2-prong outlets predominating but thankfully with some exceptions, so we have to be careful how much we plug in where. From rick at linuxmafia.com Sat Nov 11 13:20:54 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 13:20:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] ride to and from CABAL tonight In-Reply-To: <20061111211645.GN14771@linuxmafia.com> References: <0aaebff5cff23b873d1b54b7f74e5214@well.com> <20061111211645.GN14771@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061111212054.GO14771@linuxmafia.com> I wrote: > I'm also quite glad to pick people up from the Menlo Park CalTrain > station (which otherwise is a generally pleasant but long 2 mile walk > away from Chez Moen). ...which offer is, to quote an old boss of mine, "almost useful" (i.e., useless) without the contact telephone number (to call for pickup): 650-283-7902 From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Mon Nov 13 18:09:37 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:09:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] The future of Redhat? In-Reply-To: <20061109214647.GF9054@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <20061114020937.68237.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> With Oracle moving away from RedHat and Novell and Windows making a deal, what is the future of Redhat? Yes, we pay for Redhat but it has been a good linux OS. Here's an opinion. ** Can Red Hat go it alone? By Phil Hochmuth The enterprise IT market is becoming a lonely world for Red Hat. If Red Hat wasn't having a bad enough November - following the announcement of Oracle's strategy to steal away Red Hat support customers - the Novell/Microsoft Linux pact may have made it worse. Oracle's brash move is to offer support for Red Hat Linux customers and an alternate code base, which the company says will be more finely-tuned to run Oracle apps. The Microsoft and Novell agreement will involve co-development of virtualization technology. This will allow Windows and SuSE Linux servers to operate in virtualized environments, where the two operating systems run on the same machine - hosted, at the root, by either company's platform. A patent agreement made between the companies also guarantees they won't sue each other's users as a result of any mixed-code offerings they cook up. Worse for Red Hat, Microsoft said it will now recommend Novell's SuSE for users running mixed-system environments. All this puts the squeeze on Red Hat. Things could get really bad for the company if large enterprise ships running Oracle flock to the database maker for support, and Microsoft/Novell come up with a real offering to make Linux/Windows environments run better than Microsoft/Red Hat environments. Red Hat has powerful friends of its own, however. IBM and HP are key allies with the software maker, having used Linux as an effective way to counter their own waning Unix technologies, and drive hardware sales. As long as Red Hat continues to make reliable, powerful software while keeping its powerful server-making friends, expect the Linux vendor to weather the Oracle/Microsoft/Novell perfect storm. From kkeller at speakeasy.net Mon Nov 13 21:06:39 2006 From: kkeller at speakeasy.net (Keith Keller) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:06:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] The future of Redhat? In-Reply-To: <20061114020937.68237.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061109214647.GF9054@linuxmafia.com> <20061114020937.68237.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061114050639.GB3612@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 06:09:37PM -0800, Tony wrote: > > Can Red Hat go it alone? > By Phil Hochmuth > > > All this puts the squeeze on Red Hat. Things could get > really bad for the company if large enterprise ships > running Oracle flock to the database maker for > support, and Microsoft/Novell come up with a real > offering to make Linux/Windows environments run better > than Microsoft/Red Hat environments. Well, my $0.01: considering how poorly any Windows environment works at all, I am extremely skeptical that MS/Novell can make Windows/SuSE work better than Windows/RedHat. And, considering how poorly SuSE currently works, they have a long way to go to catch up to even RedHat. I think the Oracle announcement has to scare Redhat more: one competent company competing in the same space as RH is more dangerous than two inept companies (yes, even when one is MS) competing in a relatively different space. RH makes money off service contracts, for the most part; certainly MS isn't about to do that, and I don't see Novell as being able to offer better. But Oracle certainly can, and when integrated with Oracle dbms support, that could be a great deal for corporate types who are already tied to Oracle. OTOH, there will always be outfits that can't afford (or don't wish to afford, or don't need) Oracle, so there is a niche that RH can fill. Whether it's a big enough niche to sustain them is a big question. --keith -- kkeller at speakeasy.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rondosxx at yahoo.com Mon Nov 13 21:32:01 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:32:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] the colo box project Message-ID: <20061114053202.85192.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> monday night works for me, in fact it's the only night I could go until mid December. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From david at sterryit.com Mon Nov 13 21:30:06 2006 From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:30:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] The future of Redhat? In-Reply-To: <20061114050639.GB3612@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> References: <20061109214647.GF9054@linuxmafia.com> <20061114020937.68237.qmail@web50404.mail.yahoo.com> <20061114050639.GB3612@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us> Message-ID: <4559545E.7010109@sterryit.com> The future of Redhat has more to do with how it services its customers than how many partnerships or endeavors competitors are making. They should not be concerned about Microsoft & Novell or Oracle. If they really must partner with a company, how about Google? Don't they use Redhat? -Dave Keith Keller wrote: >On Mon, Nov 13, 2006 at 06:09:37PM -0800, Tony wrote: > > >>Can Red Hat go it alone? >>By Phil Hochmuth >> >> >>All this puts the squeeze on Red Hat. Things could get >>really bad for the company if large enterprise ships >>running Oracle flock to the database maker for >>support, and Microsoft/Novell come up with a real >>offering to make Linux/Windows environments run better >>than Microsoft/Red Hat environments. >> >> > >Well, my $0.01: considering how poorly any Windows environment works at >all, I am extremely skeptical that MS/Novell can make Windows/SuSE work >better than Windows/RedHat. And, considering how poorly SuSE >currently works, they have a long way to go to catch up to even >RedHat. > >I think the Oracle announcement has to scare Redhat more: one competent >company competing in the same space as RH is more dangerous than two >inept companies (yes, even when one is MS) competing in a relatively >different space. RH makes money off service contracts, for the most >part; certainly MS isn't about to do that, and I don't see Novell as >being able to offer better. But Oracle certainly can, and when >integrated with Oracle dbms support, that could be a great deal for >corporate types who are already tied to Oracle. > >OTOH, there will always be outfits that can't afford (or don't wish to >afford, or don't need) Oracle, so there is a niche that RH can fill. >Whether it's a big enough niche to sustain them is a big question. > >--keith > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Tue Nov 14 09:51:50 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:51:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Going to the colo In-Reply-To: <20061114053202.85192.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061114053202.85192.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7e48c73a6e2b75337859abc5cb1937c7@well.com> About arranging a visit to the ServePath (ColoServe) facility on Spear Street: looks like some Monday evening, John and Ron both responded. I can make Monday evening. No one's suggested otherwise. Everyone's welcome, last chance to affect planning. We've agreed (I think) not to arrange a colo visit on a meeting time, i.e. not this coming Monday, 11/20. What about Monday 11/27 or Monday 12/4 (a day after our Sunday 11 AM get together)? I can provide rides to and from the western half of the city. On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:32 PM, ron wrote: > monday night works for me, in fact it's the only night > I could go until mid December. > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _____________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. > http://new.mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Wed Nov 15 18:25:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:25:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] net neutrality Message-ID: <558e4555be5e86711396ab0d56c9dc78@well.com> the advertisements have started. i just finished reading wikipedia's description of net neutrality and i'm still confused. is it good or is it one of those terms that's been used backwards, good sounding label for some bad stuff? From marcjc at gmail.com Wed Nov 15 22:14:06 2006 From: marcjc at gmail.com (Marc Juul) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:14:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] net neutrality In-Reply-To: <558e4555be5e86711396ab0d56c9dc78@well.com> References: <558e4555be5e86711396ab0d56c9dc78@well.com> Message-ID: <65e44f2f0611152214k2f028a9ax85b0c5157d963f41@mail.gmail.com> Advertisements? My very non-objective take on this: The big media companies seem to want to treat the Internet as Television 2.0. They know that TV as we know it is doomed even as they are fighting to keep their current, obsolete, business model alive. They want to deliver their content to people's homes through cable/dsl connections. In order to deliver streaming flawless video they want to bribe your ISP to give their traffic priority. This would perhaps be justifiable if it was implemented as a QoS setting in the router/gateway device in each home, with a default setting of "off". But if you ask me it should be implemented as "give priority to streaming content" and not "give priority to AOL extra HD all new premium streaming movie gold+". This is not what they are talking about. They are talking about prioritizing the data even before it reaches you, giving you no choice, and theoretically clogging the pipes upstream of your connection so that non-prioritized information would be slower for you, even though you don't use AOLs theoretical movie service . So the question is: Should it be legal to pay the ISPs to prioritize certain data, deprioritizing everything else? I guess you can compare it to Google prioritizing results based on how much people paid them, except this is not some service that you can just "not use if you don't like it", it's the Internet. Marc Juul marcjc at gmail.com On 11/15/06, jim stockford wrote: > > the advertisements have started. i just finished > reading wikipedia's description of net neutrality > and i'm still confused. is it good or is it one of > those terms that's been used backwards, good > sounding label for some bad stuff? > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs at sonic.net Wed Nov 15 22:32:59 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:32:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] net neutrality In-Reply-To: <558e4555be5e86711396ab0d56c9dc78@well.com> References: <558e4555be5e86711396ab0d56c9dc78@well.com> Message-ID: <20061116063259.GA1752@sonic.net> On Wed, Nov 15, 2006 at 06:25:59PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > the advertisements have started. i just finished > reading wikipedia's description of net neutrality > and i'm still confused. is it good or is it one of > those terms that's been used backwards, good > sounding label for some bad stuff? The Daily Show had a great segment covering this. (So far as being pretty insanely funny :) ) http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=71914 -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From nbs at sonic.net Wed Nov 15 23:11:05 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:11:05 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Help rewrite Tux Paint's documentation! Message-ID: <20061116071105.GH9496@sonic.net> Are you writing goodly? Know you someone who am? Would you (or they?) like to help me improve Tux Paint's [*] documentation beyond its "2002, for Linux geeks" level of user-friendliness? If so, let me know! I'm gathering a collection of volunteers who'd like to help me rewrite the documentation to make it easier on the eyes (and brains) for the parents and teachers around the globe who are trying to figure out what they (and their kids and students) can do with Tux Paint. I just put in a request to create a 'tuxpaint-docs' mailing list on SourceForge, which will be where we all discuss what should go into the documentation, and what format(s) would make the most sense, in terms of maintainability and ease of distribution. Thanks in advance! [*] http://www.tuxpaint.org/ -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From jturner at nonzerosums.org Thu Nov 16 00:07:02 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:07:02 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Going to the colo In-Reply-To: <7e48c73a6e2b75337859abc5cb1937c7@well.com> References: <20061114053202.85192.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> <7e48c73a6e2b75337859abc5cb1937c7@well.com> Message-ID: <6EDBFAD5-E9AF-4561-890F-6F3577E5BAC8@nonzerosums.org> "Some Monday" evening works for me -- we'll pick the first target date at the next mtg? -- jt On Nov 14, 2006, at 9:51 AM, jim stockford wrote: > > About arranging a visit to the ServePath > (ColoServe) facility on Spear Street: > > looks like some Monday evening, John and > Ron both responded. I can make Monday > evening. No one's suggested otherwise. > Everyone's welcome, last chance to affect > planning. > We've agreed (I think) not to arrange a colo > visit on a meeting time, i.e. not this coming > Monday, 11/20. > What about Monday 11/27 or Monday 12/4 > (a day after our Sunday 11 AM get together)? > I can provide rides to and from the western > half of the city. > > > > On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:32 PM, ron wrote: > >> monday night works for me, in fact it's the only night >> I could go until mid December. >> >> >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> _____________ >> Do you Yahoo!? >> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >> http://new.mail.yahoo.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Thu Nov 16 06:58:39 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 06:58:39 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Going to the colo In-Reply-To: <6EDBFAD5-E9AF-4561-890F-6F3577E5BAC8@nonzerosums.org> References: <20061114053202.85192.qmail@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> <7e48c73a6e2b75337859abc5cb1937c7@well.com> <6EDBFAD5-E9AF-4561-890F-6F3577E5BAC8@nonzerosums.org> Message-ID: <8a5f40dd809c7db0565d89940cb73824@well.com> seems right. there's others beyond sf-lug members at this point, namely Peter Mui and the Monitoring SIG. Peter tracks our email (and is welcome to this Monday evening's meeting). Looks like 12/4 is the preferred evening--gotta cinch things up with Paul Lancaster, of course. On Nov 16, 2006, at 12:07 AM, Jason Turner wrote: > "Some Monday" evening works for me -- we'll pick the first target date > at the next mtg? > > -- > jt > > On Nov 14, 2006, at 9:51 AM, jim stockford wrote: > >> >> About arranging a visit to the ServePath >> (ColoServe) facility on Spear Street: >> >> looks like some Monday evening, John and >> Ron both responded. I can make Monday >> evening. No one's suggested otherwise. >> Everyone's welcome, last chance to affect >> planning. >> We've agreed (I think) not to arrange a colo >> visit on a meeting time, i.e. not this coming >> Monday, 11/20. >> What about Monday 11/27 or Monday 12/4 >> (a day after our Sunday 11 AM get together)? >> I can provide rides to and from the western >> half of the city. >> >> >> >> On Nov 13, 2006, at 9:32 PM, ron wrote: >> >>> monday night works for me, in fact it's the only night >>> I could go until mid December. >>> >>> >>> >>> _____________________________________________________________________ >>> __ >>> _____________ >>> Do you Yahoo!? >>> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. >>> http://new.mail.yahoo.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rondosxx at yahoo.com Thu Nov 16 12:14:28 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:14:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Going to the colo Message-ID: <535514.51169.qm@web52502.mail.yahoo.com> jim, can you just set a date? dec 4 works for me, and it seems to be ok for jason and you (if I interpreted other messages correctly); I don't know about others. It would help me at this point to have a date certain set well in advance. thanks, ron ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510k for $1,698/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre From president at svlug.org Thu Nov 16 16:35:51 2006 From: president at svlug.org (SVLUG President) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:35:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] November SVLUG Linux Workshop / Installfest this Saturday Message-ID: Hello, Bay Area Linux Enthusiasts! This Saturday is the third Saturday of November... which means it's time for yet another SVLUG Linux Workshop / Installfest. We're happy to help install your favorite Linux onto notebooks, old PCs, and new PCs. We can help with installing and configuring software that you might be having problems with, and, worst case, we can help read the manuals (or source code!) with you if all else fails. Google graciously allows us to host these events on their campus, and they're kind enough to provide an awesome variety of free drinks, wireless and wired internet connectivity, and even some overhead projectors for the occasional presentation. Recent attendees have raved about the installfest, making such statements as: "Thanks for the help", "Oh... THATS how that works!", and "I didn't know you could DO that!" If you haven't yet decided how you're going to spend your Saturday afternoon, consider joining us. We'll be there from 11AM until 4PM. Details can be found on the SVLUG website: http://svlug.org/installfest/ The most important thing you'll learn on that page is: "please don't assume someone else will lug a monitor there for you." Here's the address: Google, Inc. 1565 Charleston, Building 46 Room 135 ("Avarua" room) Mountain View, CA (note: the parking lot entrance is on Huff, not Charleston) Best regards, and I hope to see some new faces there this weekend! -Paul Reiber SVLUG Installfest Coordinator & newly-elected President From president at svlug.org Thu Nov 16 16:35:51 2006 From: president at svlug.org (SVLUG President) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:35:51 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] November SVLUG Linux Workshop / Installfest this Saturday Message-ID: Hello, Bay Area Linux Enthusiasts! This Saturday is the third Saturday of November... which means it's time for yet another SVLUG Linux Workshop / Installfest. We're happy to help install your favorite Linux onto notebooks, old PCs, and new PCs. We can help with installing and configuring software that you might be having problems with, and, worst case, we can help read the manuals (or source code!) with you if all else fails. Google graciously allows us to host these events on their campus, and they're kind enough to provide an awesome variety of free drinks, wireless and wired internet connectivity, and even some overhead projectors for the occasional presentation. Recent attendees have raved about the installfest, making such statements as: "Thanks for the help", "Oh... THATS how that works!", and "I didn't know you could DO that!" If you haven't yet decided how you're going to spend your Saturday afternoon, consider joining us. We'll be there from 11AM until 4PM. Details can be found on the SVLUG website: http://svlug.org/installfest/ The most important thing you'll learn on that page is: "please don't assume someone else will lug a monitor there for you." Here's the address: Google, Inc. 1565 Charleston, Building 46 Room 135 ("Avarua" room) Mountain View, CA (note: the parking lot entrance is on Huff, not Charleston) Best regards, and I hope to see some new faces there this weekend! -Paul Reiber SVLUG Installfest Coordinator & newly-elected President From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Fri Nov 17 12:42:14 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 12:42:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Novell-Microsoft deal slammed by Samba In-Reply-To: <20061109214647.GF9054@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <55267.44466.qm@web50415.mail.yahoo.com> I have used Samba and I think it is a nifty tool. The developers behind Samba have slammed the deal between Microsoft and Novell, not surprising. ** Samba slams 'unacceptable' Novell-Microsoft deal By Matthew Broersma, TechWorld, 11/13/06 Samba developers have slammed the Microsoft-Novell deal reached earlier this month, calling it "unacceptable" and warning that it may cause significant damage to the open source community. Related links In the deal, Microsoft agreed to offer support for Novell's SuSE Linux, and agreed not to assert rights over patents to any software technology that might be incorporated into the distribution. Under the patent cooperation agreement, both companies are paying each other upfront in exchange for a release of patent liability. Novell will also make running royalty payments to Microsoft based on a percentage of revenue from open-source products. As such the agreement ensures that Novell SuSE customers are protected against patent litigation from Microsoft. The deal has attracted criticism from open-source advocates, and Samba's open letter to Novell argues that the agreement goes against the goals of open source, or free software, and shows contempt for open source developers. "For Novell to make this deal shows a profound disregard for the relationship that they have with the Free Software community," Samba developers wrote. Proprietary software, unlike open source, forces users to sign coercive licensing agreements, dividing the world between those who have licenses and those who don't, the developers wrote. The deal between Microsoft and Novell, they said, will have a similar effect. "It deals with users and creators of free software differently depending on their 'commercial' versus 'non-commercial' status, and deals with them differently depending on whether they obtained their free software directly from Novell or from someone else," the letter stated. "The goals of the Free Software community and the GNU GPL allow for no such distinctions." The Linux kernel and components such as Samba are distributed under the GNU General Public License. Continued The deal also weakens the open source community's defenses against software patent litigation, Samba developers wrote. "Only by standing together do we stand a chance of defending against the peril represented by software patents. With this agreement Novell is attempting to destroy that unified defense, exchanging the long term interests of the entire Free Software community for a short-term advantage for Novell over their competitors." The letter called on Novell to work with the Software Freedom Law Center to undo the agreement. Novell has said the deal complies with the GPL. To help answer the flood of questions around the agreement the company published a question-and-answer page on its Web site. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link $200,000 mortgage for $660/ mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt - http://yahoo.ratemarketplace.com From jim at well.com Sat Nov 18 08:11:34 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:11:34 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meeting monday evening at javacat Message-ID: <31e4fca70033d9d7411cc7a489c39db7@well.com> meeting this monday, from 6 to 8 PM at the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in S. F. come on down. From jim at well.com Sat Nov 18 08:09:37 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:09:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job Posting Message-ID: > Looking for software engineers with a very strong coding background, > as well as solid experience in Unix Systems Administration to become > part of our Google.com team. We have locations available in Mountain > View, CA, Santa Monica, CA, Kirkland, WA, New York, NY, Dublin, > Ireland, and Zurich, Switzerland. > ? > Here is a posting for our Software engineer position inside > Google.com. The rest of the positions available can be found at this > link: > http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/topic.py?dep_id=1058&loc_id=1116 > ? > Software Engineer, Google.com - Mountain View > This position is available in Mountain View, CA. > > Google.com Engineers are involved with keeping Google running, from > code-level troubleshooting of service anomalies to safeguarding the > availability of our most popular services; from monitoring and > response to building new automation infrastructure to balancing the > desire for change management with the need for stability. All team > members must have strong analytical and troubleshooting skills, > fluency in coding, good communication skills and most of all > enthusiasm for tackling the complex problems of scale which are > uniquely Google. We tackle challenging, novel situations every day, > and work with just about every other engineering and operations team > at Google in the process. > > In this role you will need: > ? Expertise in coding, analyzing and troubleshooting large-scale > distributed systems. > ? Experience in a high-volume or critical production service > environment. > ? Strong understanding of IP networking, including the ability to > analyze network behavior, performance and application issues using > standard tools like tcpdump. > Qualifications: > ? BA/BS in Computer Science, MS or PhD is preferred. > ? 0-15 years experience. > ? 3+ years developing web-based applications. > ? Expertise in data structures, algorithms, and complexity analysis. > ? Fluency in one or more of: C, C++, Java. > ? Fluency in one of more of: Shell, PHP, Perl or Python. > ? Ability to handle periodic on-call duty, as well as out-of-band > requests. > ? Solid working knowledge of UNIX, preferably Linux. > ? Tack-sharp analytical abilities. > ? A strong sense of ownership, urgency, and drive. > ? Fluent written communication and unusual verbal agility are strong > assets. > ? SQL experience a plus, MySQL a plus. > ? Experience leading short projects involving outside teams is a > plus. > ?? > Yvonne Wong -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: unknown.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 7837 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- > Google Sourcer > ywong at google.com > www.google.com From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Sat Nov 18 08:13:18 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 08:13:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job Posting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <358124.89981.qm@web50403.mail.yahoo.com> 0 to 15 years of experience. That is a very large range. So obviously personal factors are most important. This does sound like Google. --- jim stockford wrote: > > Looking for software engineers with a very strong > coding background, > > as well as solid experience in Unix Systems > Administration to become > > part of our Google.com team. We have locations > available in Mountain > > View, CA, Santa Monica, CA, Kirkland, WA, New > York, NY, Dublin, > > Ireland, and Zurich, Switzerland. > > > > Here is a posting for our Software engineer > position inside > > Google.com. The rest of the positions available > can be found at this > > link: > > > http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/topic.py?dep_id=1058&loc_id=1116 > > > > Software Engineer, Google.com - Mountain View > > This position is available in Mountain View, CA. > > > > Google.com Engineers are involved with keeping > Google running, from > > code-level troubleshooting of service anomalies to > safeguarding the > > availability of our most popular services; from > monitoring and > > response to building new automation infrastructure > to balancing the > > desire for change management with the need for > stability. All team > > members must have strong analytical and > troubleshooting skills, > > fluency in coding, good communication skills and > most of all > > enthusiasm for tackling the complex problems of > scale which are > > uniquely Google. We tackle challenging, novel > situations every day, > > and work with just about every other engineering > and operations team > > at Google in the process. > > > > In this role you will need: > > ? Expertise in coding, analyzing and > troubleshooting large-scale > > distributed systems. > > ? Experience in a high-volume or critical > production service > > environment. > > ? Strong understanding of IP networking, > including the ability to > > analyze network behavior, performance and > application issues using > > standard tools like tcpdump. > > Qualifications: > > ? BA/BS in Computer Science, MS or PhD is > preferred. > > ? 0-15 years experience. > > ? 3+ years developing web-based applications. > > ? Expertise in data structures, algorithms, and > complexity analysis. > > ? Fluency in one or more of: C, C++, Java. > > ? Fluency in one of more of: Shell, PHP, Perl or > Python. > > ? Ability to handle periodic on-call duty, as > well as out-of-band > > requests. > > ? Solid working knowledge of UNIX, preferably > Linux. > > ? Tack-sharp analytical abilities. > > ? A strong sense of ownership, urgency, and > drive. > > ? Fluent written communication and unusual > verbal agility are strong > > assets. > > ? SQL experience a plus, MySQL a plus. > > ? Experience leading short projects involving > outside teams is a > > plus. > > > > Yvonne Wong > > > Google Sourcer > > ywong at google.com > > www.google.com> _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ The all-new Yahoo! Mail beta Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From jim at well.com Mon Nov 20 10:36:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:36:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] meeting tonight--colo tour 12/4 Message-ID: hope to see you at javacat tonight from 6 to 8, geary at 20th in SF. Paul lancaster has okayed giving us a tour of the Spear Street facility on 12/4 in the early evening. tonight should be the last chance to "input" about this tour. From jim at well.com Mon Nov 20 15:46:20 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:46:20 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] python and chinese tuesday evening Message-ID: <36c2bcb6af052562a1537f9f2375dfa2@well.com> for those who love python and don't mind mid-quality chinese food, Marilyn Davis is speaking at the BALUG meeting tomorrow night (aka tuesday evening) at the Four Seas restaurant on Grant near Clay in SF Chinatown. Get there before 7 and ask for the linux group dinner ($11); meeting ends around 9:30. http://www.balug.org From padgyx at yahoo.com Tue Nov 21 13:45:49 2006 From: padgyx at yahoo.com (Yan Gong) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:45:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] linux study group Message-ID: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Jim: Is this Red Hat study group thing still going on currently? thanks! yan ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510k for $1,698/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre From cheselka at gmail.com Tue Nov 21 19:07:21 2006 From: cheselka at gmail.com (Michael Cheselka) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 19:07:21 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] linux study group In-Reply-To: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3c6fb8810611211907y3037a9f0w9e8c56cc72b5b4ba@mail.gmail.com> It can be if it has subsided. I'm still interested in it but Im stuck in Fairfield. On 11/21/06, Yan Gong wrote: > Hi, Jim: > > Is this Red Hat study group thing still going on > currently? > > thanks! > > yan > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -- When in the Potemkin Wired be a Potemkin Lain. From jim at well.com Tue Nov 21 22:24:23 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:24:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] linux study group In-Reply-To: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: yes, per my other email. On Nov 21, 2006, at 1:45 PM, Yan Gong wrote: > Hi, Jim: > > Is this Red Hat study group thing still going on > currently? > > thanks! > > yan > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _____________ > Sponsored Link > > Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510k for $1,698/mo. > Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Tue Nov 21 22:38:03 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:38:03 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] linux study group In-Reply-To: <3c6fb8810611211907y3037a9f0w9e8c56cc72b5b4ba@mail.gmail.com> References: <20061121214549.10060.qmail@web51109.mail.yahoo.com> <3c6fb8810611211907y3037a9f0w9e8c56cc72b5b4ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30a536e3c4e2a4ad9da256bb0c0cade8@well.com> i've got a lot of material ready to add to the rhce web pages. what i need is some motivation, someone who cares to get into it. per a previous email to Yan, here is an incomplete topic list we can start with: * installation--what must you do to pass the test * troubleshooting--what might go wrong that you must fix * rpm--what are the important commands and techniques * filesystem management--commands, quotas, etc. * NIS--this is what's on the test, not LDAP * NFS--how to set up a client for a known NFS server * RAID and LVM * other stuff read the rhce.linuxmafia.com web pages and complain or request more stuff. i'll put it up. it doesn't seem possible to have a physical meeting place, so the intent for this is as an on-line, email, possibly wiki forum. On Nov 21, 2006, at 7:07 PM, Michael Cheselka wrote: > It can be if it has subsided. > I'm still interested in it but Im stuck in Fairfield. > > On 11/21/06, Yan Gong wrote: >> Hi, Jim: >> >> Is this Red Hat study group thing still going on >> currently? >> >> thanks! >> >> yan >> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > -- > When in the Potemkin Wired be a Potemkin Lain. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jturner at nonzerosums.org Wed Nov 22 16:39:19 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:39:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? Message-ID: Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. - Jim S. (driving) - Jason T. (public transport) - ? From jim at well.com Wed Nov 22 16:59:23 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:59:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: golly, thank you, jason. paul has okayed 12/4, LX will accept photos. everyone else who's expressed interest has said 12/4. the date to visit ColoServe on Spear Street is 12/4 the time is more or less 6 PM--that we should firm up. I'm willing to drive to javacat to pick people up and take them home. those who live more or less on the way, i'm happy to pick you up and drop you off at your joints if you ask. On Nov 22, 2006, at 4:39 PM, Jason Turner wrote: > Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the > colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time > conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? > > In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport > method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put > your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. > > - Jim S. (driving) > - Jason T. (public transport) > - ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From padgyx at yahoo.com Wed Nov 22 11:14:12 2006 From: padgyx at yahoo.com (Yan Gong) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 11:14:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide (Exam RH202) In-Reply-To: <30a536e3c4e2a4ad9da256bb0c0cade8@well.com> Message-ID: <259448.65544.qm@web51112.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, My Bay Area friends: I heard this book is very useful for passing RHCT. Has anybody read it yet? RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide (Exam RH202) by Michael Jang McGraw-Hill/Osborne ? 2004 (616 pages) ISBN:0072255390 Get complete coverage of exam objectives and performance-based requirements for the RHCT exam with this comprehensive study guide. You'll get full coverage of exam objectives, hundreds of practice exam questions, hands-on exercises, and more. On Bookshelf Table of Contents RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide (Exam RH202) Recently Read Accessed 1 day ago Preface Introduction Chapter 1 - RHCT Prerequisites Chapter 2 - Installation Chapter 3 - During and After Installation Chapter 4 - Basic Configuration and Administration Chapter 5 - Kernel, cron, and User Administration Chapter 6 - X Window System Chapter 7 - Linux Network Clients Chapter 8 - Operational Administration Recovery and Security Appendix A - About the CD Appendix B - Installation Screens for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Loan for $1399/mo. Calcuate new payment. www.LowerMyBills.com/lre From jim at well.com Wed Nov 22 23:21:23 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 23:21:23 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide (Exam RH202) In-Reply-To: <259448.65544.qm@web51112.mail.yahoo.com> References: <259448.65544.qm@web51112.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2dcbf78ee2df30860cb57766f4bc58ed@well.com> i've read it. it's got a lot of good points and a few not-so-good points. it deals with RHEL 3.0, which i think is fine-- the RHEL 4.0 certification focuses on the essentials. it has lots of good info and good question sections and mini-tests. where it seems weak to me is in its beginning-- in taking the tests, the test-taker works to fix or set up a host with respect to an existing network and set of servers that are part of the classroom test environment. in the beginning of the book the author tries to explain what to do to set up a similar server host to work with a client. But if the reader doesn't know the issues of the client, the reader doesn't know the issues for setting up a corresponding server: the result is, at least for me, pretty convoluted reading which did me no good. the benefit i got was from the later chapters and especially the questions following each chapter. overall, in my view, it's a really good book and i'm glad i bought it. On Nov 22, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Yan Gong wrote: > Hi, My Bay Area friends: > > I heard this book is very useful for passing RHCT. > Has anybody read it yet? > > RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide > (Exam RH202) > by Michael Jang > McGraw-Hill/Osborne ? 2004 (616 pages) > ISBN:0072255390 > > Get complete coverage of exam objectives and > performance-based requirements for the RHCT exam with > this comprehensive study guide. You'll get full > coverage of exam objectives, hundreds of practice exam > questions, hands-on exercises, and more. > On Bookshelf > Table of Contents > RHCT Red Hat Certified Technician Linux Study Guide > (Exam RH202) > Recently Read Accessed 1 day ago > Preface > Introduction > Chapter 1 - RHCT Prerequisites > Chapter 2 - Installation > Chapter 3 - During and After Installation > Chapter 4 - Basic Configuration and Administration > Chapter 5 - Kernel, cron, and User Administration > Chapter 6 - X Window System > Chapter 7 - Linux Network Clients > Chapter 8 - Operational Administration Recovery and > Security > Appendix A - About the CD > Appendix B - Installation Screens for Red Hat > Enterprise Linux 3 > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _____________ > Sponsored Link > > Rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Loan for $1399/mo. > Calcuate new payment. www.LowerMyBills.com/lre > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jturner at nonzerosums.org Thu Nov 23 08:40:36 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 08:40:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? References: <486394.40910.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6D1F6DB4-8235-4C12-BB9E-45507CD2738F@nonzerosums.org> Begin forwarded message: > From: "amror at yahoo.com" > Date: November 22, 2006 5:26:18 PM PST > To: Jason Turner > Subject: ***DHSPAM*** Re: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? > > Hi I would love to join you on the tour and I work on Spear. > > -Amro Radwan > > Jason Turner wrote: > Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the > colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time > conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? > > In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport > method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put > your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. > > - Jim S. (driving) > - Jason T. (public transport) > - ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Thu Nov 23 11:22:36 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:22:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? In-Reply-To: <6D1F6DB4-8235-4C12-BB9E-45507CD2738F@nonzerosums.org> References: <486394.40910.qm@web31814.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6D1F6DB4-8235-4C12-BB9E-45507CD2738F@nonzerosums.org> Message-ID: <30908c64fc8cbd49cef0fc1679d2de81@well.com> Paul Lancaster, of ServePath/ColoServe called to say we can slip the date if we want. It seems that enough of us are up for 12/4 that then's when we'll go ('s okay with Paul). Who's coming and who needs/wants a ride? Jason and Amro and me and ...? On Nov 23, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Jason Turner wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "amror at yahoo.com" >> Date: November 22, 2006 5:26:18 PM PST >> To: Jason Turner >> Subject: ***DHSPAM*** Re: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? >> >> Hi I would love to join you on the tour and I work on Spear. >> ? >> -Amro Radwan >> >> Jason Turner wrote: >>> Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the >>> colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time >>> conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? >>> >>> In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport >>> method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put >>> your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. >>> >>> - Jim S. (driving) >>> - Jason T. (public transport) >>> - ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From rondosxx at yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 16:31:20 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 16:31:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? Message-ID: <907853.37204.qm@web52505.mail.yahoo.com> I'm going. Sign me up. I'll be driving from Mission district; anyone need a ride from that area? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From johnlowry at gmail.com Fri Nov 24 09:22:54 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 09:22:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Some MythTV resources I talked about at the metting. Message-ID: <528b20610611240922t1d4c5e17t99690dd39b87516c@mail.gmail.com> Here is the HDTV tuner card made for Linux that I mentioned http://www.pchdtv.com/ This is the group of guys who make a media center with MythTV pre-installed http://tvease.net/ -- John Lowry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cristina_errors at yahoo.com Fri Nov 24 10:45:11 2006 From: cristina_errors at yahoo.com (Z Z) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 10:45:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061124184511.79095.qmail@web62505.mail.re1.yahoo.com> I'd like to go.. where do we go.. on that day.. meet up.. where is the colo. thanks. ^_^ cristina. Jason Turner wrote: Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. - Jim S. (driving) - Jason T. (public transport) - ? _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Fri Nov 24 11:00:43 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:00:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4? In-Reply-To: <20061124184511.79095.qmail@web62505.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <20061124184511.79095.qmail@web62505.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: here's the web site: http://www.coloserve.com/ read this for a good overview: http://www.coloserve.com/datacenters.html http://www.coloserve.com/san_francisco_colocation.html they're on 360 Spear Street, Suite 200 San Francisco, CA 94105 read this and click bottom of page for directions and a map http://www.coloserve.com/contactus.html# * Ron's offering rides from the mission district. * Jim's offering rides from the outer Richmond/Sunset Monday evening, 6:00 at the Javacat for rides, also possible door-to-door if you make arrangements * A couple of people are taking public transit or driving. probably 6:30 at the ColoServe Spear Street entrance. On Nov 24, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Z Z wrote: > I'd like to go.. where do we go.. on that day.. meet up.. where is the > colo. thanks. ^_^ > cristina. > > > Jason Turner wrote: >> Among the items discussed at this week's mtg was a visit to the >> colo. 12/4 was the date suggested but there's at least one time >> conflict and I got the impression the date may slide? >> >> In any case, let's just start the sign-up list. I include transport >> method since ride sharing was discussed. If interested, please put >> your name down so Jim can get a final list to Paul. >> >> - Jim S. (driving) >> - Jason T. (public transport) >> - ? >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email > and get things done > faster._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim at well.com Fri Nov 24 11:01:46 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 11:01:46 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: linux study group Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: jim stockford > Date: November 24, 2006 10:53:58 AM PST > To: Z Z > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] linux study group > > > yes, read the online stuff and use email to ask > questions and demand more info per the topic > list below. > There are things you have to do, like for instance, > install RHEL (or the CentOS equivalent or the > WhiteBox equivalent or the Pink Tie equivalent...). > I say install several times--install the minimum > (ask how) then see what's included and how > much disk space a minimum install takes up (ask > how if you don't know). Install the maximum and > see what's included and how much disk space. > Install some, not all, and make your own partition > scheme (ask how...). I think several installs with > your own partitioning is what it'll take for you to > learn and have confidence for passing the test. > I don't want to clog the general list up with > details for the other topics. i'll set up a wiki we > can use for Q'n'A, assuming someone asks for it . > > > > On Nov 24, 2006, at 10:42 AM, Z Z wrote: > >> cool, so we just read the online stuff and then email back? ^_^? >> ok.... I thinnk that's it.. ^_^? >> cristina. ^_^ >> >> jim stockford wrote: >>> >>> i've got a lot of material ready to add to the rhce web >>> pages. what i need is some motivation, someone who >>> cares to get into it. >>> per a previous email to Yan, here is an incomplete >>> topic list we can start with: >>> * installation--what must you do to pass the test >>> * troubleshooting--what might go wrong that you must fix >>> * rpm--what are the important commands and techniques >>> * filesystem management--commands, quotas, etc. >>> * NIS--this is what's on the test, not LDAP >>> * NFS--how to set up a client for a known NFS server >>> * RAID and LVM >>> * other stuff >>> >>> read the rhce.linuxmafia.com web pages and complain >>> or request more stuff. i'll put it up. >>> it doesn't seem possible to have a physical meeting >>> place, so the intent for this is as an on-line, email, >>> possibly wiki forum. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 21, 2006, at 7:07 PM, Michael Cheselka wrote: >>> >>> > It can be if it has subsided. >>> > I'm still interested in it but Im stuck in Fairfield. >>> > >>> > On 11/21/06, Yan Gong wrote: >>> >> Hi, Jim: >>> >> >>> >> Is this Red Hat study group thing still going on >>> >> currently? >>> >> >>> >> thanks! >>> >> >>> >> yan >>> >> >>> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> > >>> > -- >>> > When in the Potemkin Wired be a Potemkin Lain. >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > sf-lug mailing list >>> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> > >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> >> Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. From jim at well.com Sun Nov 26 10:30:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 10:30:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] pengalert gizmo your custom blinks and beeps Message-ID: <0a81fbdc24cf5ca42a8482c04cbf7c8c@well.com> http://www.pengalert.com/ cheapbytes sends me sales mail, the latest of which tells me of PengAlert, a penguin-shaped USB device with ten LEDs, a piezo beeper, a DB-9 connector withfour external ports for device control (e.g. motors), a three-digit seven-segment display, and a binary utility (with source code) called usend that you use in your shell scripts (BASH, Perl, etc.) to make the gizmo do things: # in your shell script usend -c "LED1 ON" usend -c "LED4 BLINK 2HZ" usend -c "PIEZO ON 3" # 3 KHz beep # can giv visual or audio indication of # email waiting, disk full, CPU busy, # new user online, time to wake up or stop # screwing around and go to work.... well, it's just the kind of technology i like: tho't i'd share. $54.95 from the mfr or from cheapbytes From jim at well.com Tue Nov 28 17:29:41 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:29:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4 Message-ID: next to last chance to sign up to see the colo this coming Monday night (6:30 PM 360 Spear between Folsom and Harrison): i believe each of us has to have our names on a list before Monday, i.e. before end-of-day Friday. If you wanna go, respond. <--------------------------------------- Here's who's going so far, it seems: me, jim stockford (I'll stop by javacat IF ANYONE ASKS or pickup) Z Z, aka cristina--"The List" might need your last name, cristina) catherine jones ron (rondosxx--"The List" might need your last name, ron) jason turner Hey, John Strazzarino and Nathan EvilMonkey, you guys going? Hey Peter Mui, are your "monitoring" (groundworkopensource) folks coming? Anyone else interested? From jim at well.com Tue Nov 28 20:12:32 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:12:32 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4 Message-ID: add Blake Haggerty and Nathan Kuriger to the list, each coming independently. > next to next to last chance to sign up to see the colo > this coming Monday night (6:30 PM 360 Spear between > Folsom and Harrison): > i believe each of us has to have our names on a list > before Monday, i.e. before end-of-day Friday. > If you wanna go, respond. <--------------------------------------- > > Here's who's going so far, it seems: > me, jim stockford (I'll stop by javacat IF ANYONE ASKS or pickup) > Z Z, aka cristina--"The List" might need your last name, cristina) > catherine jones > ron (rondosxx--"The List" might need your last name, ron) > jason turner > > Hey, John Strazzarino, you going? > > Hey Peter Mui, are your "monitoring" (groundworkopensource) > folks coming? > > Anyone else interested? From jim at well.com Wed Nov 29 08:50:24 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:50:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] C/C++/Linux Software Engineer, Fremont, CA | 70-80k Message-ID: <35e809deb35a02f8bbdc02ccfb061533@well.com> > [JOB] C/C++/Linux Software Engineer, Fremont, CA | 70-80k > > My client is a venture capital-backed, next-generation consumer > communications start-up. They are seeking an experienced software > engineer with 3+ years of professional experience coding C, C++ and > working with Linux. > > Successful candidates for these positions will have: > * At least 3 years experience in C, C++ > * Experience developing in Linux environment > * Experience in VoIP a plus > * Smart, multi-tasking, and good common sense required > * Love coding and take pride in your work > * Attention to detail required > * Enjoy a challenge and finding solutions > > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to > beau at open-source-staffing.com > > Thank you, > Beau J. Gould > > Open Source Staffing > www.open-source-staffing.com > beau at open-source-staffing.com > From jim at well.com Wed Nov 29 09:20:49 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:20:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4 -- nine so far Message-ID: > add Blake Haggerty and Nathan Kuriger to the list, > each coming independently. and graeme burke and peter mui, each coming independently, I'm assuming. > >> next to next to last chance to sign up to see the colo >> this coming Monday night (6:30 PM 360 Spear between >> Folsom and Harrison): >> i believe each of us has to have our names on a list >> before Monday, i.e. before end-of-day Friday. >> If you wanna go, respond. <--------------------------------------- >> >> Here's who's going so far, it seems: >> me, jim stockford (I'll stop by javacat IF ANYONE ASKS or pickup) >> Z Z, aka cristina--"The List" might need your last name, cristina) >> catherine jones >> ron (rondosxx--"The List" might need your last name, ron) >> jason turner >> >> Anyone else interested? > From rondosxx at yahoo.com Wed Nov 29 13:33:08 2006 From: rondosxx at yahoo.com (ron) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:33:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4 Message-ID: <20061129213308.15932.qmail@web52505.mail.yahoo.com> wellman ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From vze2jy85 at yahoo.com Wed Nov 29 17:07:03 2006 From: vze2jy85 at yahoo.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:07:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Microsoft-Novell partnership - a comment In-Reply-To: <20061129213308.15932.qmail@web52505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061130010703.37530.qmail@web50411.mail.yahoo.com> A view on the Microsoft - Novell partnership. Microsoft vs. Novell, between the lines By Phil Hochmuth With friends like Microsoft, who needs SCO? This is what Novell and the open source community are learning just a few weeks after Microsoft and Novell made their historic intellectual property an code interoperability deal. Speaking at a conference of SQL database users in mid-November, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer made it clear that his company's embracing of Novell SUSE Linux is not a universal show of altruism to Linux technology. "The fact that [Linux] uses our patented intellectual property is a problem for our shareholders," Ballmer said to the crowd. "In a sense," he added later in the talk, "you could say anybody who has got Linux in their data center today sort of has an undisclosed balance sheet liability." Ballmer stated Microsoft's stance that Linux infringes on Microsoft's intellectual property. The only Linux users not in violation of this are, through the recent Novell deal, SUSE Linux users. Everyone else: put that law firm on speed dial. So with the Microsoft-Novell deal just weeks old, contentions public statements are already flying between the two companies. "We disagree with the recent statements made by Microsoft on the topic of Linux and patents," said Novell CEO Ron Hovsepian in an open letter. "Importantly, our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. When we entered the patent cooperation agreement with Microsoft, Novell did not agree or admit that Linux or any other Novell offering violates Microsoft patents." Novell is now realizing how slippery the slope is with its Microsoft deal, given that company's position on Linux and open source, and the fact the lifeblood of Novell's Linux offering - and, some would argue, the future of the company itself - depends on the open source community. Answering the Hovsepian statement, Microsoft had this to say: "Microsoft and Novell have agreed to disagree on whether certain open source offerings infringe Microsoft patents and whether certain Microsoft offerings infringe Novell patents We at Microsoft respect Novell's point of view on the patent issue, even while we respectfully take a different view." It's easy to see this Microsoft-Novell saga becoming more rancorous and out-of-control in the near term. (Remember when SCO began suing its own customers running SCO/Linux shops?) It's hard to see how the Microsoft-Novell pact will make it easier and cheaper for enterprise IT professionals to run a mixed Windows/Linux network. Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former systems integrator. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From jim at well.com Thu Nov 30 12:38:41 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:38:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] SIGNUP: colo tour 12/4 -- eleven -- BRING ID!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >>> Here's the list of names to see the colo this coming >>> Monday night (6:30 PM >>> 360 Spear between Folsom and Harrison) >>> BE THERE BETWEEN 6:00 and 6:30 >>> GOTTA HAVE PICTURE ID >>> me, jim stockford (last chance to arrange ride--nobody so far) >>> catherine jones >>> ron wellman >>> jason turner >> Blake Haggerty >> Nathan Kuriger > graeme burke > peter mui amro radwan amro radwan's boss--what name? >>> >>> Z Z, aka cristina--"The List" might need your last name, cristina) >>> From jim at well.com Fri Dec 1 14:26:44 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 14:26:44 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] meeting this sunday--john lowry on freeBSD Message-ID: <5750fef23a4b3def14921ef26c4cab66@well.com> This sunday, 11 AM till 1 PM at the Javacat, Geary at 20th in San Francisco. John Lowry will tell us about his experiences with freeBSD. note for ride-to-home-set: jim will be leaving mid-meeting, around noon. From rick at linuxmafia.com Fri Dec 1 16:14:41 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 16:14:41 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Quantity of VA Linux Servers to donate Message-ID: <20061202001441.GC23750@linuxmafia.com> This fellow's looking to donate these 20-30 VA Linux PIII 2U rackmount servers to some worthy cause such as a school or college. I have no idea what he considers a worthy enough cause, but telephone him if interested. (Please don't call or write me; I have no connection to this offer, and just said I'd pass it along.) ----- Forwarded message from Casey DuBois ----- Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 17:16:08 -0500 From: Casey DuBois To: rick at linuxmafia.com Subject: Quantity of VA Linux Servers to donate Rick, Thanks again for your time today. We are looking to donate the following systems over the next few weeks: 20-30 legacy VA Linux servers they are rack mounted and have 1 floppy drive each. 2 x 500 MHz Pentium III CPU's 512MB or 1 GB RAM 1 x 20 GB IDE HDD (some are larger - 40 GB or 80 GB) 1 x 10/100 Network port Sincerely, Casey M. DuBois N-VINT, Inc. 616-656-5500 Office 866-337-2686 Direct 24x7 AOL IM: CaseyNVINT cdubois at n-vint.com "The way to think of a supercomputer is as a special-purpose device. Only with these devices can we perform this cutting-edge research." - Jack Dongarra ----- End forwarded message ----- From jim at well.com Sat Dec 2 10:00:37 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:00:37 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 Message-ID: anybody know about this? I saw a news blurb to the effect that Yellow Dog released a PS3 linux within a week of the PS3 debut. If the machine is sufficiently extensible, it could be a "thumping" good linux platform. -------------------------------- summary of PS3 specs thanks to http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html "Sony also confirmed the PlayStation 3 will use Blu-ray discs as its media format. The discs can hold up to six times as much data as current-generation DVDs. It will also support CR-ROM, CD-RW, DVD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R formats. Sony also confirmed that the machine will be backward compatible all the way to the original PlayStation. It will also have slots for Memory Stick Duo, an SD slot, and a compact flash memory slot. It will also sport a slot for a detachable 2.5-inch HDD, somewhat similar to the Xbox 360's. Sony did not mention if the drive would be standard. "Sony also laid out the technical specs of the device. The PlayStation 3 will feature the much-vaunted Cell processor, which will run at 3.2GHz, giving the whole system 2 teraflops of overall performance. It will sport 256MB XDR main RAM at 3.2GHz, and it will have 256MB of GDDR VRAM at 700MHz." From nbs at sonic.net Sat Dec 2 11:26:27 2006 From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 11:26:27 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061202192627.GB9606@sonic.net> On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 10:00:37AM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > anybody know about this? I saw a news blurb > to the effect that Yellow Dog released a PS3 linux > within a week of the PS3 debut. Yeah, I believe they got ahold of a dev PS3 before launch, to get things ironed out. Other interesting newsbites: PS3 to ship with Linux, Sony confirms [March 17, 2006] http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2370343858.html "...Kutaragi additionally confirmed that the gaming console will ship with an upgradable 60GB hard drive pre-installed with Linux..." (which didn't happen (yet); see below) and: PS3 Linux ready and waiting [Oct. 17, 2006] http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2724484258.html "Terra Soft says it was able to port YDL to the PS3 thanks to an agreement with Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI). The distribution is based on Fedora Core 5, along with a next-generation "E17" release of the Englightenment window manager. The distribution also integrates Cell-specific code created at the Barcelona Supercomputing Center." Wikipedia has this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS3#Linux "Originally Sony stated that they were going to pre-install Linux on the PS3's hard drive, but current units shipping do not include Linux pre-installed. Instead, Sony has made an option in the XMB menu to install other operating systems. When installation is complete, the startup operating system can be changed. The system can be easily booted back into the cross media bar by holding down the power button while restarting. Sony has set up a web page which will list compatible operating systems. Fedora Core 5 and Gentoo have been run on the PS3; however, Fedora Core 5 has not been optimized for the relatively low amount of RAM. The Sony-sponsored Yellow Dog Linux for the PS3 was released on November 27, 2006 to the YDL.net community, and will be released on DVD on December 11, and finally as a publicly available image in late December." > If the machine is > sufficiently extensible, it could be a "thumping" > good linux platform. Personally, I wan't a Wii. The PS3 looks like a nice upgrade, especially graphically and in terms of multimedia crap that the PS2 doesn't do (and that our TiVo does only mediocrly... we don't use it much but for music). However, the price is way too high, and compared to all of the cool new things you can do with the Wii's controllers[*], totally does not seem worth it. (Maybe once WipeOut, Tekken and Twisted Metal franchises get updated, I'll care about the PlayStation again.) At the price of a PS3, you could get a cheap Intel-compatible desktop that's at least as powerful, and probably a lot more flexible. :) [*] The Wii controllers: + are wireless - no cables between you and the system, which has the obvious benefits, but also allows for a wide range of motions you can do with it... see next item: + are motion-sensing - you can swing it like a racket when playing tennis, slash it like a sword when playing Zelda, use it like a steering controller in race games, etc. + are optical-sensing - aim it like a gun, point at menu items like you would a light pen, laser pointer or mouse, + have force-feedback and + have speakers - when you fire the grappling hook in Zelda, the controller ITSELF makes a *ka-chink!* sound, too See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote PS - Wii is compatible with GameCube game discs, controllers and memory sticks. It also has a download area where you can purchase classic Nintendo, SuperNintendo, Sega Genesis, TurboGraphics(?) and Nintendo64 titles. So it's ALSO nicely backwards-compatible. >:^) PPS - Yes, I really want a Wii. No budget this Christmas, though. :( -- -bill! bill at newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From jim at well.com Sat Dec 2 12:05:49 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:05:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 In-Reply-To: <20061202192627.GB9606@sonic.net> References: <20061202192627.GB9606@sonic.net> Message-ID: thanks very much for the info. wii tech specs here: http://www.nwiizone.com/nintendo-wii/nwii/nintendo-wii-technical- specifications/ IBM's "Broadway" CPU is Power Architecture tweaked specially for Nintendo's wii product. I'm assuming (which scares me) this is a relative of IBM's cell CPU. I'm a vi kind of guy, love flat files, don't know about games.... linux on the cell CPU family strikes me as an interesting future direction. On Dec 2, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Sat, Dec 02, 2006 at 10:00:37AM -0800, jim stockford wrote: >> >> anybody know about this? I saw a news blurb >> to the effect that Yellow Dog released a PS3 linux >> within a week of the PS3 debut. > > Yeah, I believe they got ahold of a dev PS3 before launch, to get > things > ironed out. > > Other interesting newsbites: > > PS3 to ship with Linux, Sony confirms [March 17, 2006] > http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2370343858.html > > "...Kutaragi additionally confirmed that the gaming console will > ship with an upgradable 60GB hard drive pre-installed with > Linux..." > > (which didn't happen (yet); see below) > > and: > > PS3 Linux ready and waiting [Oct. 17, 2006] > http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2724484258.html > > "Terra Soft says it was able to port YDL to the PS3 thanks to an > agreement with Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI). The > distribution is based on Fedora Core 5, along with a > next-generation > "E17" release of the Englightenment window manager. The > distribution > also integrates Cell-specific code created at the Barcelona > Supercomputing Center." > > > Wikipedia has this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS3#Linux > > "Originally Sony stated that they were going to pre-install Linux > on the PS3's hard drive, but current units shipping do not include > Linux pre-installed. Instead, Sony has made an option in the XMB > menu > to install other operating systems. When installation is > complete, the > startup operating system can be changed. The system can be easily > booted back into the cross media bar by holding down the power > button > while restarting. Sony has set up a web page which will list > compatible operating systems. Fedora Core 5 and Gentoo have been > run > on the PS3; however, Fedora Core 5 has not been optimized for the > relatively low amount of RAM. The Sony-sponsored Yellow Dog Linux > for > the PS3 was released on November 27, 2006 to the YDL.net community, > and will be released on DVD on December 11, and finally as a > publicly > available image in late December." > > >> If the machine is >> sufficiently extensible, it could be a "thumping" >> good linux platform. > > Personally, I wan't a Wii. The PS3 looks like a nice upgrade, > especially > graphically and in terms of multimedia crap that the PS2 doesn't do > (and > that our TiVo does only mediocrly... we don't use it much but for > music). > However, the price is way too high, and compared to all of the cool new > things you can do with the Wii's controllers[*], totally does not seem > worth it. (Maybe once WipeOut, Tekken and Twisted Metal franchises get > updated, I'll care about the PlayStation again.) > > At the price of a PS3, you could get a cheap Intel-compatible desktop > that's at least as powerful, and probably a lot more flexible. :) > > > [*] The Wii controllers: > > + are wireless - no cables between you and the system, which has the > obvious > benefits, but also allows for a wide range of motions you can do > with > it... see next item: > > + are motion-sensing - you can swing it like a racket when playing > tennis, > slash it like a sword when playing Zelda, use it like a steering > controller in race games, etc. > > + are optical-sensing - aim it like a gun, point at menu items like > you would > a light pen, laser pointer or mouse, > > + have force-feedback > > and > > + have speakers - when you fire the grappling hook in Zelda, the > controller > ITSELF makes a *ka-chink!* sound, too > > See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote > > > PS - Wii is compatible with GameCube game discs, controllers and > memory sticks. > It also has a download area where you can purchase classic Nintendo, > SuperNintendo, Sega Genesis, TurboGraphics(?) and Nintendo64 titles. > So it's ALSO nicely backwards-compatible. >:^) > > PPS - Yes, I really want a Wii. No budget this Christmas, though. :( > > -- > -bill! > bill at newbreedsoftware.com > http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From alamozzz at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 12:17:17 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:17:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <867308.81244.qm@web50513.mail.yahoo.com> It is going to be the most powerful "consumer" Linux box available, and likely the most powerful workstation. I was surprised Terra Soft (makers of "Yellow Dog Linux") was chosen, because they don't have a great track record (not all their fault, trying to get an OS to run on lots of different Macintosh models is no easy feat.) Sony apparently chose Terra Soft because of their expertise with the Power 5 architecture (the Cell processor, or "CBE", is an extended Power 5.) We'll see how it works out. This development also shows that, while IBM and Sony are tight partners on the Cell, IBM doesn't want Sony to use the IBM CBE Linux port. IBM is using CBE in server blades right now. I'm looking forward to CBE in laptops, but suspect it will be a while (a year?) before that happens (but anything is possible.) Cheers, Adrien --- jim stockford wrote: > > anybody know about this? I saw a news blurb > to the effect that Yellow Dog released a PS3 linux > within a week of the PS3 debut. If the machine is > sufficiently extensible, it could be a "thumping" > good linux platform. > > -------------------------------- > summary of PS3 specs thanks to > http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html > > "Sony also confirmed the PlayStation 3 will use > Blu-ray discs as its > media format. The discs can hold up to six times as > much data as > current-generation DVDs. It will also support > CR-ROM, CD-RW, DVD, > DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R formats. Sony also confirmed > that the machine > will be backward compatible all the way to the > original PlayStation. It > will also have slots for Memory Stick Duo, an SD > slot, and a compact > flash memory slot. It will also sport a slot for a > detachable 2.5-inch > HDD, somewhat similar to the Xbox 360's. Sony did > not mention if the > drive would be standard. > > "Sony also laid out the technical specs of the > device. The PlayStation > 3 will feature the much-vaunted Cell processor, > which will run at > 3.2GHz, giving the whole system 2 teraflops of > overall performance. It > will sport 256MB XDR main RAM at 3.2GHz, and it will > have 256MB of GDDR > VRAM at 700MHz." > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com From alamozzz at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 12:20:16 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:20:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 In-Reply-To: <20061202192627.GB9606@sonic.net> Message-ID: <20061202202016.49337.qmail@web50503.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Kendrick wrote: > However, the price is way too high, ... When you consider the power of this machine, the price is the best deal in the history of computing. - Adrien ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know. From alamozzz at yahoo.com Sat Dec 2 12:29:42 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:29:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] yellow dog linux on sony playstation 3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <15014.91504.qm@web50508.mail.yahoo.com> --- jim stockford wrote: > ... I'm assuming (which scares me) this is a relative of IBM's cell CPU. > Why does that scare you? It is a distant relative of CBE. The Cell is completely different. It is interesting, that now all the major game consoles are using CPUs from IBM. This was planned and was in the works for at least the past three years. Sony owns a bit over half of all the movies ever made in Hollywood. They plan to use PS3 as a hub for digital entertainment, and offer people movie downloads. The Apple-Disney deal was smart, but Disney doens't have anything near Sony's content library. > I'm a vi kind of guy, love flat files, don't > know about > games.... linux on the cell CPU family strikes me as > an interesting future direction. > You'll be able to do all the command line stuff you do with any other Unix/Linux version. That was the whole point of using 'C' to develop Unix/Linux, easy portability, with "commodity hardware" the desired result. Cheers, Adrien ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index From johnlowry at gmail.com Mon Dec 4 15:08:29 2006 From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry) Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:08:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Some discussion notes from Sunday Message-ID: <528b20610612041508u3e5c6803s36f74b2faf5f67de@mail.gmail.com> Here is a report about the DNS attack: http://www.darkreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=112002&WT.svl=news1_1 FreeBSD www.freebsd.org S.C.a.L.E. Southern California Linux Expo, a community driven linux expo. It was started by the UCLA LUG. I am going, anyone else interested? http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/ -- John Lowry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill at wards.net Tue Dec 5 16:57:49 2006 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 16:57:49 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] PenLUG meeting next week on Thursday Dec 14: Jamie Cameron, Webmin Message-ID: <3d2fe1780612051657m1d5676a7kd3b90255c74aa5cb@mail.gmail.com> Remember, due to the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, we are moving to the second Thursday for November and December. So our next meeting is next week, on Thursday, December 14. You are invited. RSVP is not required, but so we can get an idea of how many people to expect please send mail to rsvp at penlug.org to let us know if you are planning to attend. For full details about the group, as well as directions to the meeting, visit www.penlug.org. Free pizza, hors d'ouvres and soft drinks, courtesy of Open Country, will be provided. Free review copies of books from O'Reilly, Prentice-Hall, APress, and/or other publishers, will be given out as door prizes. Be on time for the eary bird drawing. Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2006 Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 Speaker: Jamie Cameron Topic: Webmin Webmin is an open-source web-based system administration interface for Linux systems. It lets you perform tasks like managing BIND, Apache, Sendmail, Unix users and so on without having to manually edit configuration files in the /etc directory, all through a web browser running locally or connecting to the Linux box over the network. Jamie will give an introduction to Webmin and a demo of its capabilities, talking about how it can be useful for managing a home system or small network server, and then covering some of the work he has been doing with OpenCountry to add a Bacula backup module. Jamie was born in Australia but is now working for Google in California. He started work on Webmin in 1997 while working in Singapore, as a way to avoid having people pester him for trivial DNS updates, and has been developing it ever since. He is married with 2 children, and currently lives in Santa Clara. From jim at well.com Tue Dec 5 20:12:38 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:12:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Monitoring SIG: Weds, Dec 13 Message-ID: from the monitoring SIG (What do they monitor? System behaviors -- ... , i think). > ----------------------------------------------------- > December Monitoring SIG: 'Twas the night before > backup...:?Real-World?Stories > > At?November's meeting at least three people volunteered to?share > real-world stories about their monitoring installation (more stories > are welcome: please email me back and let me know.)? We'll use these > stories as a launching point for generalizing about monitoring best > practices.??Bring your monitoring wish list, questions and insights -- > share your experiences! > > What: Monitoring SIG III :?'Twas the night before > backup...:?Real-World Stories > Who:? Anyone interested in IT monitoring issues and tools > When:? Wednesday, December 13 2006, 7PM > Where:? GroundWork Open Source, 139 Townsend St., San Francisco > How:? 139 Townsend St. is very near AT&T Park. It is two blocks from > the CalTrain Depot.? Take the MUNI N trolley "inbound" to 2nd and King > (ballpark stop) or take the 10, 15 or 30 buses crosstown.? Free > evening street parking can usually be found. > > Festive holiday season refreshments (pizza, pop, snacks) and other > good cheer will be provided by Santa's elves (aka GroundWork).? We'll > open up the doors at 6:30 or so and start the formal part of the > meeting promptly at 7PM.?? > > RSVP (not necessary, but helpful): Peter Mui, > pmui at groundworkopensource.com, 415 992 4573 > From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 5 20:19:18 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 20:19:18 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Monitoring SIG: Weds, Dec 13 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20061206041917.GT14528@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > from the monitoring SIG (What do they monitor? > System behaviors -- ... , i think). Basically, farms/clusters of machines, to spot down conditions, performance congestion, overheating, etc. The classic open-source monitoring package is Nagios. Groundwork, the company that sponsors the Monitoring SIG, produces, installs, and supports a superset of Nagios with proprietary extensions. From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 08:28:10 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:28:10 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k Message-ID: <3a0213f564fb871e80ae648a023ff91f@well.com> > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k > > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of students > have > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their related > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and CCNA study > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that are > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs include > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. > > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and are more > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to Santa Cruz, > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full benefits > are > included. > > Technical skills required: > * PHP > * MySQL > > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: > * HTML (Expert level) > * CSS (Expert level) > * SVN (Subversion) > * JavaScript > > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to > beau at open-source-staffing.com > From alamozzz at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 12:47:38 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:47:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <3a0213f564fb871e80ae648a023ff91f@well.com> Message-ID: <20061206204738.52138.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> $60k/year in Santa Cruz? Do they provide housing at the local dog pound? Another joke job posting. jim stockford wrote: > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k > > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of students > have > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their related > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and CCNA study > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that are > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs include > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. > > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and are more > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to Santa Cruz, > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full benefits > are > included. > > Technical skills required: > * PHP > * MySQL > > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: > * HTML (Expert level) > * CSS (Expert level) > * SVN (Subversion) > * JavaScript > > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to > beau at open-source-staffing.com > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 14:26:11 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:26:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] JOB NAS & Linux administrator Message-ID: <3646dbecd650dc0f35004d766e9ebb90@well.com> > ? > Position: NAS & Linux Administrator > Pay: 100k > Location: Brisbane, CA > ? > Essential Skills: > High End NAS (NetApp preferred) and Linux Administration, Scripting > Skills > ? > Essential Experience: > Ops Group using data safeguarding techniques and administering > platform for performance-sensitive, public facing apps > ? > If you feel you would be interested in this position please send me a > copy of your resume ASAP. > ? > Blake Haggerty > Blake.Haggerty at sapphire.com > #415-788-8488 x215 > ? > Best Regards, > ? > Blake M. Haggerty > Technical Recruiter > Sapphire Technologies > Phone #415-788-8488 > Fax #415-788-2592 From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 14:27:59 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:27:59 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061206204738.52138.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061206204738.52138.qmail@web50502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3c490546afabd05fa02f1d7068ce0366@well.com> this looks like an entry-level position, judging from the requirements. On Dec 6, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > $60k/year in Santa Cruz? Do they provide housing at the local dog > pound? Another joke job posting. > > > jim stockford wrote: >> > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k >> > >> > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of students >> > have >> > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their >> related >> > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and CCNA >> study >> > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that are >> > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs include >> > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. >> > >> > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and are >> more >> > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to Santa >> Cruz, >> > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full benefits >> > are >> > included. >> > >> > Technical skills required: >> > * PHP >> > * MySQL >> > >> > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: >> > * HTML (Expert level) >> > * CSS (Expert level) >> > * SVN (Subversion) >> > * JavaScript >> > >> > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, >> > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your >> > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to >> > beau at open-source-staffing.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From alamozzz at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 16:45:31 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:45:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <3c490546afabd05fa02f1d7068ce0366@well.com> Message-ID: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> Expert level HTML and CSS, plus javascript, php and mysql. Wouldn't call that entry level. The lucky candidate should be able to find someone renting a room in their home. Met a guy recently, doing software for Sprint. Making top dollar, living in Overland Park, Kansas. He works a couple of years, then walks away with bags of gold. jim stockford wrote: this looks like an entry-level position, judging from the requirements. On Dec 6, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > $60k/year in Santa Cruz? Do they provide housing at the local dog > pound? Another joke job posting. > > > jim stockford wrote: >> > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k >> > >> > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of students >> > have >> > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their >> related >> > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and CCNA >> study >> > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that are >> > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs include >> > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. >> > >> > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and are >> more >> > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to Santa >> Cruz, >> > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full benefits >> > are >> > included. >> > >> > Technical skills required: >> > * PHP >> > * MySQL >> > >> > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: >> > * HTML (Expert level) >> > * CSS (Expert level) >> > * SVN (Subversion) >> > * JavaScript >> > >> > If you are interested in this position, please submit your resume, >> > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your >> > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to >> > beau at open-source-staffing.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > beta._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 17:45:43 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 17:45:43 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> References: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: well..., come on, adrien: i know you know who writes these ads--recruiters, not hiring managers. When the web was two years old there were ads asking for five years experience in http. not to take these things seriously. what they want is php and mysql and they're hoping for extra icing. nobody who can command bags of gold is likely to respond. these folks will get their pick of whoever responds--entry level personages. I'd be very interested in the opinions of the several recruiters who've joined this mailing list (of over 100 names): with respect to this ad, whom do you believe will apply and who will get hired? On Dec 6, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Expert level HTML and CSS, plus javascript, php and mysql. Wouldn't > call that entry level. The lucky candidate should be able to find > someone renting a room in their home. > > Met a guy recently, doing software for Sprint. Making top dollar, > living in Overland Park, Kansas. He works a couple of years, then > walks away with bags of gold. > > > jim stockford wrote: >> this looks like an entry-level position, judging >> from the requirements. >> >> On Dec 6, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: >> >> > $60k/year in Santa Cruz? Do they provide housing at the local dog >> > pound? Another joke job posting. >> > >> > >> > jim stockford wrote: >> >> > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k >> >> > >> >> > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of >> students >> >> > have >> >> > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their >> >> related >> >> > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and CCNA >> >> study >> >> > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that are >> >> > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs >> include >> >> > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. >> >> > >> >> > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and are >> >> more >> >> > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to Santa >> >> Cruz, >> >> > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full >> benefits >> >> > are >> >> > included. >> >> > >> >> > Technical skills required: >> >> > * PHP >> >> > * MySQL >> >> > >> >> > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: >> >> > * HTML (Expert level) >> >> > * CSS (Expert level) >> >> > * SVN (Subversion) >> >> > * JavaScript >> >> > >> >> > If you are interested in this position, please submit your >> resume, >> >> > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your >> >> > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to >> >> > beau at open-source-staffing.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> sf-lug mailing list >> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > >> > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail >> > beta._______________________________________________ >> > sf-lug mailing list >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Dec 6 17:53:24 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 17:53:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: References: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061207015323.GY14528@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > well..., come on, adrien: i know you know who writes > these ads--recruiters, not hiring managers. When the > web was two years old there were ads asking for five > years experience in http. If we shouldn't believe the ad where it says "expert", why should we nonetheless believe it where it says "entry-level" a few lines away? You can't have that both ways, and Adrien was quite right in pointing out the ad being self-contradictory and mildly ridiculous. (However, I don't expect a lot of rationality in job ads.) From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 19:12:19 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:12:19 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061207015323.GY14528@linuxmafia.com> References: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> <20061207015323.GY14528@linuxmafia.com> Message-ID: <684c1a922660491002aea84002d36bc1@well.com> the ad said expert. i'm the one who said entry level. we should use good sense in interpreting what we read. i think this ad describes a job that could be a good starting point for someone just out of college or with just one or two employment bouts under their belts. On Dec 6, 2006, at 5:53 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > >> well..., come on, adrien: i know you know who writes >> these ads--recruiters, not hiring managers. When the >> web was two years old there were ads asking for five >> years experience in http. > > If we shouldn't believe the ad where it says "expert", why should we > nonetheless believe it where it says "entry-level" a few lines away? > > You can't have that both ways, and Adrien was quite right in pointing > out the ad being self-contradictory and mildly ridiculous. (However, I > don't expect a lot of rationality in job ads.) > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Wed Dec 6 19:13:45 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:13:45 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <22669443.1165456814378.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1> References: <22669443.1165456814378.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1> Message-ID: <09e388ea6cabed45ca14d3f8a8f48de1@well.com> hiring managers ask for the moon? On Dec 6, 2006, at 6:00 PM, Blake Haggerty wrote: > Although this is not my posting I am a recruiter and thi is what I can > ad to this. This position is certainly more mid level? possibly even > JR. (most companies wont even cough up 60k for Jr. right now). > ? > The thing that struck me as interesting is?that Jim said that you > think the recruiters write the job descriptions. That is rarely the > case. Most of the time the hiring manager send us the job description > and we just copy and paste. > ? > Best Regards, > ? > Blake M. Haggerty > Technical Recruiter > Sapphire Technologies > Phone #415-788-8488 > Fax #415-788-2592 > > ? > > -----Original Message----- > From:jim stockford jim at well.com > To: "Adrien Lamothe" ; > Cc: "SF-LUG List'" ; > Sent: Dec 6, 2006 05:44:00 PM > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | > 60k > > > well..., come on, adrien: i know you know who writes > these ads--recruiters, not hiring managers. When the > web was two years old there were ads asking for five > years experience in http. > not to take these things seriously. what they want is > php and mysql and they're hoping for extra icing. > nobody who can command bags of gold is likely to > respond. these folks will get their pick of whoever > responds--entry level personages. > > I'd be very interested in the opinions of the several > recruiters who've joined this mailing list (of over 100 > names): with respect to this ad, whom do you believe > will apply and who will get hired? > > > On Dec 6, 2006, at 4:45 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > > Expert level HTML and CSS, plus javascript, php and mysql. Wouldn't > > call that entry level. The lucky candidate should be able to find > > someone renting a room in their home. > > > > Met a guy recently, doing software for Sprint. Making top dollar, > > living in Overland Park, Kansas. He works a couple of years, then > > walks away with bags of gold. > > > > > > jim stockford wrote: > >> this looks like an entry-level position, judging > >> from the requirements. > >> > >> On Dec 6, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > >> > >> > $60k/year in Santa Cruz? Do they provide housing at the local dog > >> > pound? Another joke job posting. > >> > > >> > > >> > jim stockford wrote: > >> >> > [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k > >> >> > > >> >> > My Santa Cruz, CA client was founded in 1994. Thousands of > >> students > >> >> > have > >> >> > completed their classroom trainings, videos and have used their > >> >> related > >> >> > simulations and more than 6,000,000 copies of their MCSE and > CCNA > >> >> study > >> >> > guides are in print. They offer turnkey online programs that > are > >> >> > fully-hosted and branded for schools. These degree programs > >> include > >> >> > Allied Health, Information Technology, and Business. > >> >> > > >> >> > They are seeking a full time, on-site PHP/MySQL Developer and > are > >> >> more > >> >> > than willing to relocate candidates interested in moving to > Santa > >> >> Cruz, > >> >> > CA. They are trying to stay around the $60,000 mark. Full > >> benefits > >> >> > are > >> >> > included. > >> >> > > >> >> > Technical skills required: > >> >> > * PHP > >> >> > * MySQL > >> >> > > >> >> > Other technical skills that are a plus but not a must: > >> >> > * HTML (Expert level) > >> >> > * CSS (Expert level) > >> >> > * SVN (Subversion) > >> >> > * JavaScript > >> >> > > >> >> > If you are interested in this position, please submit your > >> resume, > >> >> > salary requirements, and a paragraph (or two) highlighting your > >> >> > skills/experience as it pertains to this job to > >> >> > beau at open-source-staffing.com > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> sf-lug mailing list > >> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> > > >> > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail > >> > beta._______________________________________________ > >> > sf-lug mailing list > >> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > >> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > >> > > > > Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > > rates._______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive > use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may > contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not > the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from > reading, printing, duplicating, disseminating or otherwise > using or acting in reliance upon this information. If you have > received this information in error, please notify the sender at > Sapphire Technologies immediately, delete this information > from your computer and destroy all copies of the information. > Thank you. From rick at linuxmafia.com Wed Dec 6 20:02:38 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:02:38 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <684c1a922660491002aea84002d36bc1@well.com> References: <708183.1739.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> <20061207015323.GY14528@linuxmafia.com> <684c1a922660491002aea84002d36bc1@well.com> Message-ID: <20061207040238.GM22371@linuxmafia.com> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com): > the ad said expert. i'm the one who said entry level. Ah, well, then: In a job ad, I think I'd be inclined to believe that "expert" was a goofy maximalist wishlist expression fairly read as "quite experienced" -- but definitely not (per you) as "entry level". Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern California job market, is just absurd. > we should use good sense in interpreting what we read. Quite. > i think this ad describes a job that could be a good starting point > for someone just out of college... I just can't see that, sorry. Not _that_ ad. > ...or with just one or two employment bouts under their belts. _Relevant_ employment bouts? Sorry, can't see that, either. From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Wed Dec 6 22:10:43 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 22:10:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k Message-ID: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> moen: >Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern California >job market, is just absurd. ok rick, i'll bite: what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. we've got two intermediate slots open. like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL skills. difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. x From jim at well.com Thu Dec 7 07:07:50 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:07:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70601e0d5a92bbdb287a6537a32755d3@well.com> i'll bite, too, hoping for adrien's and blake's responses as well: what does $60K buy? what does "entry level" mean in terms of skills (and what's the pay range)? is there a difference in paying IT psersonages vs programmers? On Dec 6, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > moen: >> Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern >> California >> job market, is just absurd. > > ok rick, i'll bite: > what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? > > i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. > i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. > > we've got two intermediate slots open. > like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL > skills. > difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. > > x > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Thu Dec 7 07:28:52 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:28:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] new development in internet access for people in nations that restrict internet access Message-ID: you can download this free open source software onto your computer, here in the (still) free USA and turn your computer (as long as it's powered on) into an encryptionator that people in restricted countries can access to gain uncensorable access to the internet. the link explains better: > http://www.techweb.com/showArticle.jhtml? > articleID=196513593&cid=RSSfeed_TechWeb From alamozzz at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 07:28:54 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:28:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <248038.28255.qm@web50511.mail.yahoo.com> If you can find an apartment in Santa Cruz, a single person can live on $60k/year there. Doing the math for rent (~ $1500/month, you don't want to live in a dump), car payment (~ $250/month), car insurance (comprehensive, say ~ $100/month?), gas (~ $450/month), food (say $300/month), you get a total of $2600/month, or $31,200/year living expenses, not including clothing, entertainment, vacation or incidental expenses. What does $60k/year leave you with, after payroll deductions? You get the picture. This is O.K. for a single person, but what about a couple? If a couple with children tries to move to Santa Cruz, then likely both parents are working, which means not one but both your candidate and the candidate's spouse need to find work. If only one parent, your candidate, works, then it is very unlikely the family can be supported by the $60k/year salary. Also, whoever takes the job shouldn't even think about buying a home or condo, if they do they'll quickly find out they don't qualify ($60k/year doesn't cut the mustard). This is a primary reason software development has been spreading out, to areas with lower costs of living and lower costs of doing business. Enlightened companies are letting employees telecommute via VPNs. If you let your developer live in someplace like say Portland, then they will be more than happy to work for $60k/year. By the way, a headhunter recently contacted me about some long-term contract programming at a Santa Clara company, doing PHP and MySQL. The hourly rate, on my end, would have been $70/hour; this doesn't include the agency cut. So, the client is paying at least $100/hour. So, good luck getting someone good offering $60k/year. The principal of Bellarmine high school (I should say "ex-principal") resigned and moved to Georgia, because he couldn't afford to pay a mortgage and raise his family on what they were paying him. Bellarmine, a private school, is known for having one of the better pay and benefit packages in the Bay Area. I also know a physics teacher there, who is single, who left for mostly the same reasons, he went to St. Louis to work for Grumman. I bet Grumman is paying him more than Bellarmine was, and his cost of living is much lower. Lx Rudis wrote: moen: >Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern California >job market, is just absurd. ok rick, i'll bite: what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. we've got two intermediate slots open. like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL skills. difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. x _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alamozzz at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 07:46:45 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:46:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <70601e0d5a92bbdb287a6537a32755d3@well.com> Message-ID: <828276.56644.qm@web50512.mail.yahoo.com> Some IT people are vital to their company's success, doing work that few others are capable of performing. Some are mere drones, doing work that isn't critical and is easily performed by others. What they should be compensated is dependent on their importance to the company and how well the company is doing. The problem, these days, is that even people in the first category often don't get paid as well as a San Francisco Muni driver; people in the second category fare much worse. This is why universities have experienced a steep decline in computer science enrollments, and why the federal government is now worried the U.S. will lose its edge in computer technology. The kids are going back into law and medicine, where the money and status are (status being very closely related to money). Most technology company owners/executives/managers/marketeers are scared as hell that their fortunes depend on people with knowledge and skills they will never have or begin to understand. So, they label the tech workers "geeks", "nerds", etc. and generally do their best to make the techies feel inferior in some way. Hey, don't want them to ever discover how important they really are, they may start demanding higher wages! This is the MAJOR reason companies have been outsourcing to India. There are plenty of qualified Americans to do the work, they just won't do it for slave wages. Indian software engineers with Masters degrees and PhDs, working in their home country, are working for $10-$15 per hour. The problem is that becoming a senior level software engineer is just as demanding as becoming a top performer in any of the other engineering disciplines (electrical, mechanical, I'll even say Civil). LX Rudis has worked in the computer gaming industry for many years. Do we need to discuss the dismal conditions and salaries of the programmers, testers, etc. of people in that industry? I think this is one reason why open source has become so popular, and why so many software developers have contributed to open source projects. You can take their money away, but you can't keep them from getting recognized for their talents. jim stockford wrote: i'll bite, too, hoping for adrien's and blake's responses as well: what does $60K buy? what does "entry level" mean in terms of skills (and what's the pay range)? is there a difference in paying IT psersonages vs programmers? On Dec 6, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > moen: >> Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern >> California >> job market, is just absurd. > > ok rick, i'll bite: > what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? > > i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. > i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. > > we've got two intermediate slots open. > like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL > skills. > difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. > > x > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 7 11:05:24 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:05:24 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061207190524.GP22371@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net): > moen: > >Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern California > >job market, is just absurd. > > ok rick, i'll bite: > what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? I'm not 100% sure -- but I do know that I was getting _more_ than that 20 years ago as an entry-level tech. support weenie in an impoverished Foster City (CA) software company. This was during the Ronald Reagan administration (insert "Back to the Future" reference here), and we're talking 1986 dollars. (It was enough to live as a bachelor in a depressing one-bedroom apartment in the flatlands of San Mateo -- with further depression impinging every day as my bicycle commute crossed the park named for my assassinated friend and congressman Leo Ryan. Life got much better when I left that firm, started a consulting business, and moved to SF.) From alamozzz at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 11:10:33 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:10:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <20061207061043.4528.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <813944.42500.qm@web50512.mail.yahoo.com> Lx Rudis wrote:i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. we've got two intermediate slots open. like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL skills. difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. x Is the earlier post from your company? What do you mean by "intermediate"? Can you actually describe what is expected from an "intermediate" php/sql developer? Will these people work with existing developers, under their direction? --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alamozzz at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 13:14:30 2006 From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:14:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k In-Reply-To: <70601e0d5a92bbdb287a6537a32755d3@well.com> Message-ID: <829172.39191.qm@web50506.mail.yahoo.com> Another important thing to keep in mind: about five (I think) years ago, the labor department performed a study of IT jobs, and found that the average tenure of a "permanent" IT worker was 13 months! Not very permanent. The cat has been out of the bag for a while, people in IT know this. Given this, does a family really want to move cross-country for a $60k/year job in Santa Cruz? jim stockford wrote: i'll bite, too, hoping for adrien's and blake's responses as well: what does $60K buy? what does "entry level" mean in terms of skills (and what's the pay range)? is there a difference in paying IT psersonages vs programmers? On Dec 6, 2006, at 10:10 PM, Lx Rudis wrote: > moen: >> Offering $60k for the skillset described, in the 2006 Northern >> California >> job market, is just absurd. > > ok rick, i'll bite: > what _does_ $60k/yr buy in 2007? > > i'm one of the directors of atari inc's rebranding effort. > i am sitting here in the NYC offices at 1am typing, and i'm all ears. > > we've got two intermediate slots open. > like that earlier post, my tech director is looking for PHP and SQL > skills. > difference here is that you're talking to staff, not a recruiter. > > x > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug at linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rick at linuxmafia.com Thu Dec 7 15:23:33 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:23:33 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] (forw) Re: [SlugLUG] Job Opportunity forwarded to me... Message-ID: <20061207232333.GD14528@linuxmafia.com> One poster's view, from a Santa Cruz-local mailing list. So, SC's worse than Foster City was twenty years ago? {shudder} (Other people on that list were commenting with somewhat disparaging remarks pretty much like Adrien's, including the bit about relocation being a trap in that context.) ----- Forwarded message from Cody Caughlan ----- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:42:17 -0800 From: Cody Caughlan To: sluglug at sluglug.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: [SlugLUG] Job Opportunity forwarded to me... It sounds like the company in question is New Horizons, which is over on Soquel Ave @ Morrisey (last I checked): http://www.newhorizons.com/content/index.aspx Not that it matters.... For a PHP/MySQL job in Santa Cruz, $60K/year is not bad. SC is kind of a blackhole when it comes to getting a decent wage for tech work (unless you consult). I was playing that game for a long time and ended up moving to San Francisco. YMMV. _______________________________________________ Sluglug mailing list Sluglug at sluglug.ucsc.edu http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sluglug ----- End forwarded message ----- From jim at well.com Fri Dec 8 15:31:14 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:31:14 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Immediate need for Linux Kernel expert Message-ID: <8dc54795ecb265aa3ae178817022489b@well.com> marianne's making the rounds: > From: "Marianne Arkwright" > Date: December 8, 2006 1:07:22 PM PST > To: > Subject: Immediate need for Linux Kernel expert > Reply-To: "Marianne Arkwright" > > I have an immediate need for a Linux kernel expert for a couple of > weeks. May require travel. Please contact Tom at > forjava at pacbell.net or call at 650-726-3107. > ? > Your help is appreciated. > ? > ? From jim at well.com Fri Dec 8 17:05:06 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 17:05:06 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] the box is in ColoServe (360 Spear Street) Message-ID: <99530996987283a380151964bdd1c4b7@well.com> try http://www.sf-lug.com and you'll see our web page (with the much smaller LinuxKong graphic) served out of our (my) machine at 360 Spear Street. took me forever to get things done, i'm hoping that some of you will help out--there's stuff I don't know how to do and other stuff i do know how to do but get too tired to get around to. there's a lot of tweaking yet to do. it's a frisky box--3GHz CPU with 2GB RAM. I hope some of you will use it (ask me for a ssh login account). more news to come. From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 9 11:58:18 2006 From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:58:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [JOB] PHP/MySQL Developer, Santa Cruz, CA | 60k Message-ID: <20061209195818.28179.qmail@web82305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: Adrien Lamothe >LX Rudis has worked in the computer gaming industry for many years. guess i outed myself pretty good with this one, eh? anyways, salary is definitely a sore point today, and it was pretty ironic to peek into the list and see exactly the issue my technical counterpart is dealing with right now. >Do we need to discuss the dismal conditions and salaries of the programmers, testers, etc. of people in that industry? yes, but because of my position there are limits to what i can post. adrien is absolutely right about the tight $ situation in the industry. feast or famine, with a lot of the latter going on. outside the industry perception is that we're all well compensated for easy jobs, but the truth is that much of the work is boom or bust, when one _is_ working you are typically nailing about 80 full-on work hours per week - scared as hell, and scheduling tends to be a cruel joke. i could go on, but then the weeping and gnashing of teeth would begin and i'd be off into the OT weeds for sure... >I think this is one reason why open source has become so popular, and why so many software developers have >contributed to open source projects. You can take their money away, but you can't keep them from \>getting recognized for their talents. that's a very interesting comment. it does make me want to mention one of the projects we are working on internally, 'Atari Create': my producer and i are making a strong effort to locate tools which are freeware and shareware, and i'm also suggesting that we offer links to Ubuntu and begin making suggestions that game hobbyists begin exploring linux. we'll definitely be offering some tools which cost money, but the idea is to provide as much access to inexpensive or free stuff as possible, and provide several 'gallery' type environments for people to share and interact within. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mariannx at pacbell.net Fri Dec 8 13:05:35 2006 From: mariannx at pacbell.net (Marianne Arkwright) Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:05:35 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Need Linux Kernel expert Message-ID: Have immediate need for Linux kernel expert for a couple of weeks. May require travel. Please contact Tom at 650-726-3107. -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ From blackcatquilts at earthlink.net Mon Dec 11 20:37:13 2006 From: blackcatquilts at earthlink.net (Gretchen Nelson) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:37:13 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] DVD on Laptop Message-ID: <410-220061221243713670@earthlink.net> I have just joined the sf-lug because I have a Linux laptop(previously with RH2.4, now with CentOS) that I don't yet know how to use. I am still learning the Linux basics. Anyway, when I insert a music CD the machine just plays it-no questions asked! But when I insert a DVD the machine acts like it's hearing martian and won't play anything!! I don't know how or what to tell it to just play the DVD. So, can somebody please tell me how to get a Linux laptop machine to play a DVD? Cliff Ransom@ Gretchen Nelson blackcatquilts at earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim at well.com Mon Dec 11 21:07:54 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:07:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] DVD on Laptop In-Reply-To: <410-220061221243713670@earthlink.net> References: <410-220061221243713670@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <0593a35f0f69d319036b22184ffed5f2@well.com> does your laptop have a DVD player or does the thing installed just play CDs? On Dec 11, 2006, at 8:37 PM, Gretchen Nelson wrote: > I have just joined the sf-lug because I have a Linux laptop(previously > with RH2.4, now with CentOS) that I don't yet know how to use.? I am > still learning the Linux basics.? Anyway, when I insert a music CD the > machine just plays it-no questions asked!? But when I insert a DVD the > machine acts like it's hearing martian and won't play anything!!?? I > don't know how or what to tell it to just play the DVD. > ? > So, can somebody please tell me how to get a Linux laptop machine to > play a DVD? > ? > Cliff Ransom@ > ? > ? > Gretchen Nelson > blackcatquilts at earthlink.net > EarthLink Revolves Around You. > ? > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com Tue Dec 12 08:32:30 2006 From: Blake.Haggerty at Sapphire.com (Blake Haggerty) Date: 12 Dec 2006 11:32:30 -0500 Subject: [sf-lug] DVD on Laptop Message-ID: <28857944.1165941152090.JavaMail.cfservice@webserverb1> I had the same issues with playing a DVD on SUSE Linux. First thing I had to do was install Mplayer then I also had to install a bunch of libraries that allowed it to play. apparently Linux doesn't come with the ability to play DVDs right out of the box because of some copyright issues. Check out www.linuxquestions.org and do a search about that there are a few walk through on how and where to find the libraries... Best Regards, Blake M. Haggerty Technical Recruiter Sapphire Technologies Phone #415-788-8488 Fax #415-788-2592 -----Original Message----- From:Gretchen Nelson blackcatquilts at earthlink.net To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" ; Sent: Dec 11, 2006 08:40:27 PM Subject: [sf-lug] DVD on Laptop I have just joined the sf-lug because I have a Linux laptop(previously with RH2.4, now with CentOS) that I don't yet know how to use. I am still learning the Linux basics. Anyway, when I insert a music CD the machine just plays it-no questions asked! But when I insert a DVD the machine acts like it's hearing martian and won't play anything!! I don't know how or what to tell it to just play the DVD. So, can somebody please tell me how to get a Linux laptop machine to play a DVD? Cliff Ransom@ Gretchen Nelson blackcatquilts at earthlink.net EarthLink Revolves Around You. The information transmitted in this e-mail is for the exclusive use of the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are prohibited from reading, printing, duplicating, disseminating or otherwise using or acting in reliance upon this information. If you have received this information in error, please notify the sender at Sapphire Technologies immediately, delete this information from your computer and destroy all copies of the information. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bill at wards.net Tue Dec 12 08:41:17 2006 From: bill at wards.net (Bill Ward) Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:41:17 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Reminder: PenLUG meeting this week on Thursday Dec 14: Jamie Cameron, Webmin Message-ID: <3d2fe1780612120841s112b6676oe162d79065f8e86e@mail.gmail.com> Remember, due to the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays, we are moving to the second Thursday for November and December. So our next meeting is next week, on Thursday, December 14. You are invited. RSVP is not required, but so we can get an idea of how many people to expect please send mail to rsvp at penlug.org to let us know if you are planning to attend. For full details about the group, as well as directions to the meeting, visit www.penlug.org. Free pizza, hors d'ouvres and soft drinks, courtesy of Open Country, will be provided. Free review copies of books from O'Reilly, Prentice-Hall, APress, and/or other publishers, will be given out as door prizes. Be on time for the eary bird drawing. Date: Thursday, December 14th, 2006 Time: meeting 7:00 - 9:00 PM, social/networking until 10 PM Location: Twin Pines Park, 1225 Ralston Ave, Belmont, CA 94002 Speaker: Jamie Cameron Topic: Webmin Webmin is an open-source web-based system administration interface for Linux systems. It lets you perform tasks like managing BIND, Apache, Sendmail, Unix users and so on without having to manually edit configuration files in the /etc directory, all through a web browser running locally or connecting to the Linux box over the network. Jamie will give an introduction to Webmin and a demo of its capabilities, talking about how it can be useful for managing a home system or small network server, and then covering some of the work he has been doing with OpenCountry to add a Bacula backup module. Jamie was born in Australia but is now working for Google in California. He started work on Webmin in 1997 while working in Singapore, as a way to avoid having people pester him for trivial DNS updates, and has been developing it ever since. He is married with 2 children, and currently lives in Santa Clara. From sverma at sfsu.edu Thu Dec 14 22:38:54 2006 From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:38:54 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Firefox ad on TV!!! Message-ID: <458242FE.8050201@sfsu.edu> Just saw this ad for Firefox on Comcast Channel 36 in San Francisco. Wow! http://www.firefoxflicks.com/flick/index.php?sort=new&id=19541&c=false Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim at well.com Fri Dec 15 08:36:26 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:36:26 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Monday evening meeting at javacat Message-ID: <1d4f9cef78ac078f2ffa52bf5eebf679@well.com> Come on by, bring your laptop and CDs and linux adventures: Monday 12/18 6 PM to 8 PM at the Javacat on Geary at 20th in San Francisco. we can share a ssh tour of our working colo box. From jturner at nonzerosums.org Tue Dec 19 17:11:47 2006 From: jturner at nonzerosums.org (Jason Turner) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 17:11:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Some Debian developers on quasi-strike? Message-ID: <45888DD3.6070205@nonzerosums.org> >From eWeek's daily mail... ----------------------------------------- News: Disgruntled Debian Developers Delay Etch Vexed that two Debian developers were getting paid for their work, other Debian programmers have either ceased or slowed down their work on the popular Linux distribution. http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-5128-8-85-147478-587088-0-0-0-1 ------------------------------------------ I haven't read anyone's "position" paper(s) yet but, despite my love of Debian, I still don't see this bit of news as too big a deal for users. Of course, I'm assuming that any slowdown isn't too bad. I waited a long time for Debian 3.0 so seeing 4.0 within this year would have been breakneck speed to me! I'm sure the politics among distribution developers will continue to be interesting though. Perhaps Ubuntu's influence on Debian will grow as a result? Eh. -- jt From rick at linuxmafia.com Tue Dec 19 18:05:52 2006 From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:05:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Some Debian developers on quasi-strike? In-Reply-To: <45888DD3.6070205@nonzerosums.org> References: <45888DD3.6070205@nonzerosums.org> Message-ID: <20061220020552.GQ14528@linuxmafia.com> Quoting Jason Turner (jturner at nonzerosums.org): > From eWeek's daily mail... > > News: Disgruntled Debian Developers Delay Etch > > Vexed that two Debian developers were getting paid for their work, other > Debian programmers have either ceased or slowed down their work on the > popular Linux distribution. > http://ct.enews.eweek.com/rd/cts?d=186-5128-8-85-147478-587088-0-0-0-1 (Upstream original copy at: http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS3128387759.html ) I very much like Steven Vaughan-Nichols as a reporter, especially his go-getter attitude towards getting scoops, but sometimes he misses the mark: There are boring procedural reasons for the recent rescheduling of Etch release, i.e., there are about 100 release-critical bugs, and those simply take time to fix -- and it strains credulity that significant numbers of developers would be throwing a hissy fit and sitting on their asses just because two of their number are getting financial support. (Some Debian developers have _always_ gotten financial support and others not: Progeny, VA Linux Systems, etc. It's not new, and it's not controversial among reasonable people.) In any event, it's clear that Vaughan-Nichols severely overinterpreted Andreas Barth's blog entry, because the latter now sports this addendum: Update: There are media rumours floating around that "[Etch has] been delayed because some developers have deliberately slowed down their work". This doesn't reflect what I said. I just noted that the dunc-tank experiment has positive and negative effects, and we shouldn't watch only one side - whichever that side is. The reasons for the release being delayed from the original planned date has other reasons, please read the mails on debian-devel-announce for details (also all linked on http://release.debian.org/). And, I'm quite happy with the involvement of most Developers in the release. (And this paragraph isn't part of what this blog posting should be about really, but as it is cited, it is still here ...) -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick at linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From jim at well.com Tue Dec 19 18:55:12 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:55:12 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job posting: Linux position, with City CarShare Message-ID: short and sweet, looks legit. Begin forwarded message: > From: bryce > Date: December 19, 2006 1:49:44 PM PST > To: jim at well.com > Subject: Job posting: Linux position, with City CarShare > > City CarShare is hiring in San Francisco. > > City CarShare operates in-house reservation, fleet management, and > billing systems using RedHat Linux and Mac OS X, Java, Perl and some > PHP. We're seeking a technical generalist able to keep the systems > running, plus automate various business processes and help improve the > member experience. This is a programming position, primarily involving > manipulating, summarizing, cleaning, and summarizing data. > > Car sharing at its ideal is highly synergistic with public transit, > walking and bicycle use. It's a new mode, in many ways, and has the > potential to shape how cities develop. > > See http://www.citycarshare.org/jobs.do > > Bryce Nesbitt, IT Director City CarShare > From jim at well.com Tue Dec 19 19:00:52 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:00:52 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] JOB posting: wells fargo wants a perl programmer Message-ID: <630e72fde42be57557f6677c076611e7@well.com> must know unix, perl, and shell scripting. nice to know plsql. contract position at wells fargo. definitely not a bottom feeder job posting. email me if you're interested. jim at well.com From jim at well.com Tue Dec 19 19:05:36 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:05:36 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] JOB posting: wells fargo wants a perl programmer In-Reply-To: <630e72fde42be57557f6677c076611e7@well.com> References: <630e72fde42be57557f6677c076611e7@well.com> Message-ID: sorry for being a space cadet: the job site is downtown san francisco, california between monkey and kearny. On Dec 19, 2006, at 7:00 PM, jim stockford wrote: > > must know unix, perl, and shell scripting. > nice to know plsql. > contract position at wells fargo. definitely > not a bottom feeder job posting. > > email me if you're interested. > > jim at well.com > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim at well.com Wed Dec 20 05:52:29 2006 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:52:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux Classes at Skyline College in San Bruno Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: John Strazzarino > Date: December 19, 2006 7:05:28 PM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: Linux Classes at Skyline College in San Bruno > > Thought you folks would be interested in the following ... > > At Skyline, the Linux curriculum is expanding to include new topics, as > well as getting official course numbers. > > This Spring (starting Jan 16th) ... the following classes are on the > schedule ... > > COMP/TCOM 315 Managing Linux-based Internet Services? > > COMP/TCOM 316 Managing Linux-based Intra-net (Enterprise) Services. > > You probably will ask ... what's in each of these classes?? For more > details on course content, go to ... > > http://www.linuxatskyline.org > > Hope you find these classes of interest, > Corey Fong > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com