From jim at well.com  Sun Jan  1 10:15:42 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 10:15:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] no sf-lug meeting today, but... 
Message-ID: <9ED1ACD0-7AF2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>


next sf-lug meeting is Monday, January 16, from
6:00 PM till 8:00 PM (or so).

Topics will include future directions of sf-lug.
Ideas include
* incorporating as non-profit
* revisiting our technobase (stick with Tom's
machines and Jim's alternates, go with colo,
use webhosting...)
* web site redesign
* presenting sf-lug as a resource to the greater
city community, for training, connections to
resources....




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  1 13:13:14 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:13:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Happy New Year!

I'm very optimistic about 2006; I think this will be a banner year for open-source software (with most of the good stuff happening later in the year.)

Thanks, Rick, for explaining uncle-enzo and the network setup and the reference to Raw Bandwidth Communications.

Have you ever monitored RAM usage on uncle-enzo? RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100 (you can also usually use PC-133 safely in a PC-100 system.) UPSes have also come way down in price.

I would ask what kernel uncle-enzo is running, but that is probably an improper question due to security concerns.

Cheers,

Adrien


Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

>(this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list
>is working on the linuxmafia.com host.)

You might have noticed that the machine had ten hours of downtime 
(5 am to 3 pm), courtesy of the longest storm-induced power outage my
household has seen in about five years.  More below.

First, just a few words about the current situation, since we-all simply
popped up on linuxmafia.com like mushrooms in the spring.  Jim and a
friend are still busy working on restoring the _real_ SF-LUG mailing
list and Web site, and I believe are considering hosting options.
Meanwhile, I offered to give the mailing list a temporary home on my
Mailman-equipped Linux server, linuxmafia.com.  (Yr. welcome.  Glad to
help.) 

linuxmafia.com (aka "uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com", for you Neal Stephenson
fans) is the antique 1998-era VA Research model 500 2U server[1] in my
living room in suburban West Menlo Park just north of Stanford U.,
connected through home aDSL service provided by Raw Bandwidth
Communications (which company I recommend strongly).  I am _not_ the
listadmin of this temporary mailing list incarnation; Jim is.  I'm just
the current hardware's bit janitor (sysadmin) and pink-slip owner.  ;->  

As SF-LUG has already learned somewhat painfully, keeping a group's
Internet presence on a machine in someone's residence has its
disadvantages.  Even for the resident, it's a tradeoff:

On the plus side:  Bandwidth uptime is exceptional, thanks to Mike
Durkin at Raw Bandwidth, who is fanatical about such things.  Also, 
I get complete control of all aspects of my machine including physical 
custody.  And it's pretty cheap for what I get, considering all the
other needs simultaneously served by the incoming pipe and 5 routable
IPs.  (If you want business details, consult http://www.rawbandwidth.com/ 
and talk to Mike.  Not me, please.  I'm just a customer.)

On the minus side:  Effective throughput is merely adequate compared to 
what's available at your average colo -- enough that I've survived a
couple of slashdottings, but with some strain.  (I'm spoiled, having
gotten used to the T-1 in my old building in S.F.)  Also, power outages
and other physical-plant issues are _my_ problem.

My long-term solution to the power-outage problem is mostly to punt:  
I've never bothered putting uncle-enzo on a UPS.  The software's
completely bulletproof and the hardware's disposable.  Power outages
knock it offline for maybe half an hour a couple of times a year:  When
the power comes back, all service reliably come back.  If I get unlucky
and a surge burns out a PSU or hard drive, I can bring the machine back
in about an hour on substitute hardware that's ready for that
purpose.[3]

Back in 2001, you may recall that our {cough} friends at Enron and kin
visited upon us an entire summer of rolling blackouts.  _That_ created
some challenges for uncle-enzo, because all of the journaling
filesystems were still pretty beta, and I was at the time still 100%
ext2.  Because of the power crisis, I did an urgent rebuild onto SGI's
XFS filesystem in May 2001[2], thereby fixing the immediate problem.
The next full site rebuild after that, in 2003, I switched to ext3 --
except still using ext2 for /usr (normally mounted read-only) and for
/tmp and /var/log, for performance reasons.

Anyhow, SF-LUG is welcome to use my machine's facilities as long as it
wants, but I anticipate that we'll want to move it to SF-LUG's _own_
machine in good time.  I just wanted to reassure you that 10 hours of 
downtime is something of an outlying case, but is within expectation for
storm season and nothing to get alarmed about.  Because uncle-enzo is 
_my_ principal home on the Internet, I am motivated (and able) to bring
it back up within about a day somewhere, no matter what happens -- root
compromise, hard drive failures, whatever.

[1] Get a load of these 31337 specs:  single-proc PIII/500, 256kB PC100
SDRAM, 2 x 9GB SCSI-2 HDs.  Go, me!

[2] See:  "XFS Conversion" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Filesystems/ .

[3] In fact, I really should swap in a slightly better machine and two
less ridiculously small and old hard drives, that is waiting.  I just
haven't had time to do the swaparound.

-- 
Cheers,             
Rick Moen                 "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor."
rick at linuxmafia.com                                   -- Elizabeth Tudor

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060101/fd6075e5/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jan  1 16:27:14 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:27:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Happy New Year!

Thank ghod, we're a bit over half-way through the Noughties.  I won't 
miss 'em.

> Have you ever monitored RAM usage on uncle-enzo? RAM is really
> inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100 (you can also usually
> use PC-133 safely in a PC-100 system.) 

You know, I could, but why?  Like most Linux Internet hosts in most
situations, uncle-enzo is I/O-bound, courtesy of living at the slow end
of an aDSL line.  Given its role in life, it could actually be a much 
less powerful (and quieter, and smaller, and less electricity-gulping) 
machine, and still perform just as well.  vmstat and other tools show
it doesn't eat into virtual memory much, and in general runs fairly
healthily with its mere 256MB.  

About the only real benefit of (say) doubling that RAM would be stretch
the life of its twin 9GB SCSI-2 drives, by giving more resources to the
system disk cache.  But, really:  Extending the life of 9GB SCSI-2
drives?  In 2006?

You see, I really did think that one over.  I'm not sure it even merits
spending tbe price of several Quiznos Classic Italian sandwitches at SA
Technology, let alone having to spin down the machine, get all the junk
off the 2U case, crack it open, blow all the dust out, and cram in more
RAM.  

For that matter, I don't even know offhand how many free RAM
slots the Intel Nightshade (N440BX) motherboard has, or what it maxes
out at.  Hmm, searching reveals:  four DIMM slots, total max 1GB.  

Jury says:  Not even worth cracking the case to find out whether the
number of open slots is two or zero.

Remember, this is junk hardware, like any computer _that_ old (8 yrs.).


> UPSes have also come way down in price.

And you then get to pay pretty much the same amount again every few
years to get battery replacements.  And the periodic amount you have to
pay is proportional to the capacity.  (There's also the possibility of
automatic orderly shutdown, discussed below, with even very low-capacity
UPSes.)

Let's think about that:  For there to be much point, I'd need to put the
system box, the aDSL modem, and at least the house's outer ethernet hub
on the UPS.  Let's say for the sake of discussion that it's 220W, on
average.  An APC Smart-UPS XL 750VA provides... hmm, the units of their 
capacity figures don't makes sense to me.  Shouldn't it be in something
like kilowatt-hours?  (Turns out this is complex, and is explained at
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/funcCapacity-c.html .)

Costs $420, weighs 53 pounds.  220 watts over 110 VAC implies a 2 amp 
current draw.  Anyhow, they have a chart that claims about 1 1/4 hours
of battery runtime at that current draw -- for $420 every few years.

And for what?  Currently, the power trips off:  uncle-enzo is off the
air.  Power comes back:  uncle-enzo is back with everything undamaged
and just fine.  This is no fluke:  The SQL database uses ACID-compliant
tables, the non-static filesystems are journaled, all services restart
automatically.  Even vim keeps temporary files so you can reopen the
unsaved file you had open where power dropped off, without lossage.
Most outages are during winter storms at 4 AM while I'm asleep, anyway.
I wake up, and the only way I can even tell there's _been_ downtime is
that my GNU Screen sessions aren't running, any more.

So, basically, $420 every few years would buy my uninterrupted operation
through two or three power failures per year that are shorter than 1.25
hours.  Presumbly, $100 every few years might buy me uniterrupted
operation through 15 minute or shorter power outages.  But I really
don't care that much. 

Deirdre has an unused UPS that would probably run uncle-enzo (and the
other stuff) for ten minutes. 

The other thing alluded to above is that UPSes don't _have_ to simply 
run silently along on battery power until suddenly they run out of juice
and everything falls over:  With a suitable RS-232C serial or USB cable, 
your UPS can send out status signals to an attached machine that is
running UPS-minitoring daemon software.  That software then will wake up
and do whatever it's configured for, when there is X estimated minutes
of battery runtime remaining:  page the administrator, do an orderly
shutdown of affected machines, or whatever.

This can be important if, say, you have application servers that depend
on database servers, etc., that really need to be brought down and back
up in a specific order.  I don't, and as far as I can tell my needs are
limited to:  please bring the machine back up when the power comes back.
And I already have that, with no UPS.

APCC (and possibly others) makes the monitoring thing gratuitously
difficult by requiring bizarrely non-standard cables for the
interconnects involved, which are -- of course -- absurdly expensive and
exotic.  (This may have changed.  It was the case some years ago.)

Some smarter guy than I might imagine something useful that can be done
within a 10 (or 75) minute battery runtime, using such a mechanism.
Personally, I don't really see any, and so don't see any significant
advantage.


> I would ask what kernel uncle-enzo is running, but that is probably an
> improper question due to security concerns.

No, I have no problem disclosing that.  It's a Debian-packaged binary
kernel (because I'm lazy, and because many distro-provided precompiled
modular kernels are good enough):

~ $ uname -r
2.4.27-2-686
^ ^  ^ ^  ^
| |  | |  |-- CPU-optimisation (best you can do for a PIII) and architecture,
| |  | | -- Version of the distro's package of this kernel variant.
| |  |-- Release version for this kernel.
| |-- Minor series number, for this kernel release.  Even numbers are
| |   stable releases, through 2.4.  2.6 introduced different versioning.
| |-- Major series number, for this kernel release.

People new to Debian and related distros (MEPIS, Kanotix, Ubuntu, etc.) 
sometimes just assume that they'll automatically get a suitable kernel
every time they update packages using apt-get -- and never stop to
consider what kernel _package_ they're using.   Worse, prior to Debian
3.0 "sarge" (current "stable" branch), if you took no explicit action to
manually pick an explicit kernel package, you ended up by default with
the _installer's_ kernel and no actual kernel _package_ at all.

The result was that you persisted in running an extremely generic
kernel, which then never received any updates because the package system
didn't even know about it.

It somehow never occurred to the Debian package maintainers that many
people would _not_ take an explicit step to pick a kernel package.  This
oversight was fixed in the (now-current) "sarge"-branch's default
installer.

Anyhow, if you browse through available precompiled kernel packages for
your CPU family (x86, PPC, SPARC...), you find various 2.4.x, 2.6.x, and 
even 2.2.x release versions.  You also find, for each release version
present, packages with different compiler optimisations (386, 586, 686, 
k6, k7).  For each of those, you find packages compiled either with or
without SMP support.

The specific Debian kernel package I have installed is called:  

  Pacakge: kernel-image-2.4-686

  Description: Linux kernel image for version 2.4 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4
  This package will always depend on the latest 2.4 kernel image available for
  Pentium Pro/Celeron/Pentium II/Pentium III/Pentium 4.
  Tag: admin::boot, admin::kernel, role::aux:metapackage

As indicated, this is a "metapackage" (or virtual package), sort of like
a movable symlink for packaging:  Its presence is a reminder memo to the
packaging system that it should fetch any newer _actual_ physical package with
any name of the form "kernel-image-2.4.N-686, where N is a number higher
than the current value.

(Kernel metapackages aka virtual packages were introduced sometime in
the "sarge" testing cycle.  If you have a Debian-ish system, you might
check to see if it maybe got accidentially stuck at 2.4.N for low values
of N, because that's the physical-package version you picked once upon a
time, and you never revisited the matter or switched to a metapackage.)

And, of course, N is currently 27:  I have package "kernel-image-2.4.27-686",
which package is at release #2, as shown earlier.  This is a
uniprocessor (non-SMP) kernel, compiled with PPro (686) optimisation.

Now, you might be thinking, "Wait!  isn't the 2.4 kernel series up to
2.4.31?"  Yes, it is.  Debian, like most distros, occasionally chooses
to pick a kernel release that looks really good for the medium term and 
standardise on it for a while.  As 2.4.28, -29, -30, and -31 came out,
the Debian kernel maintainers consider whether each will make a better
substitute interim standard, and whether the new version's improvements
can be easily backported to 2.4.27.  So far, they have preferred to
backport.  Thus, even though 2.4.x releases after 2.4.27 have provided
security fixes, the fact that I'm still on a 2.4.27 kernel doesn't mean
I've missed those fixes.

I mention that matter because it's a frequent area of confusion among
people new to kernel issues:  You can't just look at package numbers and
say "Oh no!  That's a vulnerable version."  Backports make the matter
not quite that simple.

If I actually had some compelling reason to run a 2.4.31 kernel, the
fact that Debian doesn't (yet) provide one precompiled isn't much of an
obstacle, because Debian provides the make-kpkg (make kernel package)
tool, allowing you to easily compile and build Debianised binary kernel
packages from the source tarballs of your choosing.  

I could do that -- but I'm lazy, and I also have a reasonable amount of
faith in the package maintainers' oversight.

And, by the way, there wouldn't be a whole lot of point in being
secretive about what Linux kernel I'm running:  The nmap and p0f  
remote-scanning tools, among others, can make a somewhat reasonable guess 
about what OS and kernel reversion you're running, through testing TCP
packet signatures and such things.


linuxmafia:~# nmap -sT -sV -sU -O linuxmafia.com
Starting nmap 3.93 (http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-01-01 15:01 PST
Interesting ports on linuxmafia.com (198.144.195.186):
(The 3135 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
PORT      STATE         SERVICE VERSION
21/tcp    open          ftp     vsFTPd 2.0.3
22/tcp    open          ssh     OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0)
23/tcp    open          ssh     OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0)
25/tcp    open          smtp    Exim smtpd 4.54
53/tcp    open          domain
53/udp    open          domain?
80/tcp    open          http    Apache httpd 1.3.33 ((Debian GNU/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.24 OpenSSL/0.9.8 DAV/1.0.3)
119/tcp   open          nntp    Leafnode nntpd 2.0b8_ma9
123/udp   open          ntp?
443/tcp   open          http    Apache httpd 1.3.33 ((Debian GNU/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.24 OpenSSL/0.9.8 DAV/1.0.3)
873/tcp   open          rsync (protocol version 29)
8080/tcp  open          ssh     OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0)
32768/udp open|filtered omadDevice type: generalpurpose


Running: Linux 2.4.X|2.5.X
OS details: Linux 2.4.0 - 2.5.20
Uptime 1.017 days (since Sat Dec 31 14:37:58 2005)
Service Info: OS: Unix

Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 55.254 seconds


linuxmafia:~# p0f
p0f - passive os fingerprinting utility, version 2.0.5
(C) M. Zalewski <lcamtuf at dione.cc>, W. Stearns <wstearns at pobox.com>
p0f: listening (SYN) on 'eth1', 231 sigs (13 generic), rule: 'all'.
198.144.195.186:43966 - Linux 2.4/2.6 <= 2.6.7 (up: 24 hrs) 
[snip]


_Do_ try that at home, kids:  Studying your own machines' external
profile via remote-probing tools is an _extremely_ good idea.  However,
think long and hard before security-scanning other folks' networks,
since many people may get a little trigger-happy about that.



From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  1 18:11:32 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:11:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>Jury says:  Not even worth cracking the case to find out whether the number of open slots is two or zero.

Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.

>Remember, this is junk hardware, like any computer _that_ old (8 yrs.).

I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. 
The 400BX chipset is very stable, a great choice for a server.
The Pentium III Coppermine is a very capable processor.

Don't let uncle-enzo die! He has been a good uncle, now you
should support and comfort him in his old age. What do the
other conspire list members think? Shouldn't uncle-enzo be 
allowed to continue doing what he has done so well for so
long?

Long live uncle-enzo!


 

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060101/c1062782/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jan  1 18:51:15 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:51:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.

True.  I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills
over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans.  The whine is loud and
annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
next to it in the living room.

Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.

> I think it is an excellent piece of hardware.  The 400BX chipset is
> very stable, a great choice for a server.  The Pentium III Coppermine
> is a very capable processor.

For its day:  very true.  If only the damned thing were quieter and more
power-thrifty.

Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
PIII/833 (can support dual).  Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.

Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
small.  Like, imagine:  I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr.
old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.  

That would be, what?  Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB
IDE hard drive.  Built-in UPS (the battery).  Quiet as a dormouse.  Sips
only tiny amounts of power.

And, you know?  There would be no performance difference, because of the
aDSL bottleneck.

> Don't let uncle-enzo die!

I might have him bronzed.  ;->




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  1 20:23:44 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:23:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060102042344.46911.qmail@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I was actually going to suggest a laptop, but you would still want to UPS the DSL modem, etc. The Lancewood system sounds like a capable replacement. But the laptop would consume less power, take up less real estate and emit way less noise.


Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.

True.  I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills
over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans.  The whine is loud and
annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
next to it in the living room.

Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.

> I think it is an excellent piece of hardware.  The 400BX chipset is
> very stable, a great choice for a server.  The Pentium III Coppermine
> is a very capable processor.

For its day:  very true.  If only the damned thing were quieter and more
power-thrifty.

Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
PIII/833 (can support dual).  Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.

Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
small.  Like, imagine:  I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr.
old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.  

That would be, what?  Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB
IDE hard drive.  Built-in UPS (the battery).  Quiet as a dormouse.  Sips
only tiny amounts of power.

And, you know?  There would be no performance difference, because of the
aDSL bottleneck.

> Don't let uncle-enzo die!

I might have him bronzed.  ;->


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060101/7ab255fb/attachment.html>

From johnlowry at gmail.com  Sun Jan  1 19:29:08 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:29:08 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting
Message-ID: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com>

I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us up with
a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and have told me
that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a %40 discount.
They work at Media Temple

www.mediatemple.net

--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060101/5ae64c2d/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sun Jan  1 20:53:11 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:53:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <ACF8BDC8-7B4B-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>


<wild_applause>
Rick and Adrien: what an interesting ping-pong!
* The laptop idea (get a cheap laptop for your
server if you want quietly to save electri$ity)
is useful.
* (i had no idea CPUs and motherboards had
such nicknames.) I'd like to know what are the
best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and
such in the first half of 2006. SATA is the way
to go? How about all-RAM systems?
* What are the tradeoffs of do-it-at-your-house
vs colo (your box lives there) vs web hosting
(not your box)? The colo and web hosters
have T-1 with UPS and wet ware switch
operations.

    The downside of the Uncle Enzo solution
(and the cheap laptop solution) is that the
older he gets, the more likely is hardware
failure. Once something goes (the drives,
controller, motherboard...), he's probably
permanently gone, as the money to
repair/replace is a bad spend, yes?
    Long as you've got him, love him, but be
ready for son of Enzo, what say?


On Jan 1, 2006, at 6:51 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>> Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.
>
> True.  I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire 
> grills
> over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans.  The whine is loud and
> annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
> next to it in the living room.
>
> Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
> there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
> frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.
>
>> I think it is an excellent piece of hardware.  The 400BX chipset is
>> very stable, a great choice for a server.  The Pentium III Coppermine
>> is a very capable processor.
>
> For its day:  very true.  If only the damned thing were quieter and 
> more
> power-thrifty.
>
> Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
> Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
> respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
> PIII/833 (can support dual).  Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
> _that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
> indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.
>
> Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
> Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
> small.  Like, imagine:  I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 
> 2yr.
> old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.
>
> That would be, what?  Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 
> GB
> IDE hard drive.  Built-in UPS (the battery).  Quiet as a dormouse.  
> Sips
> only tiny amounts of power.
>
> And, you know?  There would be no performance difference, because of 
> the
> aDSL bottleneck.
>
>> Don't let uncle-enzo die!
>
> I might have him bronzed.  ;->
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From david at sterryit.com  Sun Jan  1 21:00:53 2006
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:00:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com>

This has been a pretty interesting and very indepth discussion. I've 
never made it to a meeting but I did go the USENIX show < 1 month ago 
and had a pretty good time.

As for the UPS issue, I think for non-mission-critical use, just make 
sure your bios is set to power the machine back on after power failure 
and test it out to see that all your services come after you pull the 
plug. If your bios doesn't offer the option, definitely upgrade.  May I 
second the $50 p4 1gb laptop with broken screen? If that has too much 
processing power visit http://folding.stanford.edu/

A quick plug: I've recently created a chat server in php/javascript. If 
you want to put it up on the sflug or any other php enabled server, go 
for it. You can test it out at http://www/sterryit.com/chat or get your 
own at http://www.sterryit.com/chatr

Thanks,

Dave

Rick Moen wrote:

>Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>  
>
>>Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.
>>    
>>
>
>True.  I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills
>over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans.  The whine is loud and
>annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
>next to it in the living room.
>
>Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
>there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
>frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.
>
>  
>
>>I think it is an excellent piece of hardware.  The 400BX chipset is
>>very stable, a great choice for a server.  The Pentium III Coppermine
>>is a very capable processor.
>>    
>>
>
>For its day:  very true.  If only the damned thing were quieter and more
>power-thrifty.
>
>Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
>Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
>respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
>PIII/833 (can support dual).  Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
>_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
>indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.
>
>Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
>Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
>small.  Like, imagine:  I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr.
>old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.  
>
>That would be, what?  Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB
>IDE hard drive.  Built-in UPS (the battery).  Quiet as a dormouse.  Sips
>only tiny amounts of power.
>
>And, you know?  There would be no performance difference, because of the
>aDSL bottleneck.
>
>  
>
>>Don't let uncle-enzo die!
>>    
>>
>
>I might have him bronzed.  ;->
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>sf-lug mailing list
>sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>  
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060101/dbfbb298/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sun Jan  1 21:10:45 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:10:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC 
In-Reply-To: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>


RFC:
I've gone round and round on this colo vs stick to
what we've got vs web hosting that I'm dizzy. Issues:
* It's a good, good thing that we members have root
access to the boxes. Those of us who want to jump
in will learn linux better.
* It's a good thing that we members have physical
access to the boxes.
* It's a thing to save money: $15 per month is a
better thing than $100 per month.
* We assume the ability to tweak our web pages
ourselves whenever we like.
* T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.
* Discounts for the charitable are great.
* Sharing costs with others gets better situations at
less cost but with possibly more confusion (the
others may have root access, too).
* XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good,
but what's the learning curve?

    MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
with the in situ wetware?

    There's a guy down the street from me who
has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
His clients are dozers who read their email and
sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
wifi connection between my back deck and his
roof. Given our good relations with him, we
could make our connection available to others,
too, for some consideration (money or help or
smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Your opinions?


On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:29 PM, John Lowry wrote:

> I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us 
> up with a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and 
> have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a 
> %40 discount.
>  They work at Media Temple
>
> www.mediatemple.net
>
> -- 
> John Lowry
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jan  1 21:15:59 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:15:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
	<43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com>
Message-ID: <20060102051559.GK2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting David Sterry (david at sterryit.com):

> As for the UPS issue, I think for non-mission-critical use, just make 
> sure your bios is set to power the machine back on after power failure 
> and test it out to see that all your services come after you pull the 
> plug. If your bios doesn't offer the option, definitely upgrade.

This is a good point for most ATX and later machines.  By contrast,
server-class kit such as the VA Research model 500 and VA Linux Systems
2230 use (annoyingly failure-prone) custom PSUs from Converter Concepts
that do power-on automatically.  

I actually do know of instances of people putting desktop-grade ATX-type
systems on UPSes _solely_ as a kludge to get around their inability,
otherwise, to come back online automatically after losing power.  For
example, my wife's older machine that used to run "deirdre.net" in our
living room had that problem:   It was supposed to be a 24x7 Web server,
yet she kept having to visit the living room and frob the start switch,
every time there was even a three-second power glitch.

_Really_ antique kit like the K6/233 AT-type tower under my kitchen
table (the one I use to burn Linux ISOs for visitors during CABAL
meetings) escape that problem.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jan  1 21:46:58 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC
In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com>
	<20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060102054658.GL2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

Just one comment, for starters:

> * XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good,
> but what's the learning curve?

There is none.  You don't need to know a blessed thing about how it's
done under the hood -- if all you want to do is be a customer.

If you use virtual-machine hosting, they've already done the job of
setting up the virtual machine (VM) for you.  You then get to have
(basically) any Linux distro of your choosing within the virtual
machine -- which you can then modify to suit yourself.

Well, that's the bare-bones theory.  In practice, they tell you "Look,
because you'll be able to reach the VM only via remote login, we have to 
install something into it.  We offer default installs of (say) current
Slackware, Debian, or CentOS.  Let us know which one you want."

Once you ssh into that default install using the initial default root
login password they tell you, you have complete run of the (virtual)
machine, and can rearrange it to suit yourself.  For example, if they
gave you CentOS and you decide you prefer Debian, you would SSH in, and
then do chroot installation
(http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DebianChrootInstall).

The _only_ functional difference between a {XEN|UML} virtual machine and
bare metal is that, in the former case, you are sharing machine CPU
power, I/O capacity, etc. with other people's VMs.  And it's about 85%
cheaper.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Jan  1 22:54:30 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:54:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC
In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com>
	<20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060102065430.GM2513@linuxmafia.com>

Further thoughts:

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.

Sure, but don't forget the driveway effect.

Imagine a guy with an hour-long commute every morning.  He decides
to fix it, by putting banked, 50MPH-rated curves into his 1/4 mile
driveway.  And of course that really does no good, because the real
bottleneck is the 45 mintes he spends going 15MPH on the freeway, 
not those 30 seconds reaching the street.

Being on T-1 instead of aDSL is great if the site is heavily loaded,
or if it routinely moves big bulk transfers of data.  E.g., when my
machine lived on T-1:

o  The building's LAN didn't break a sweat when I got slashdotted.
o  I maintained a full Debian package mirror (which was then "only" 
   about 15GB).

On aDSL:

o  The house LAN gets clobbered when I get slashdotted (but 
   survives and is reachable, if barely).
o  No more full Debian mirror.  (I don't have enough disk space,
   anyway.)

Web servers that _aren't_ heavily loaded are rather like that guy with
the long driveway.  Most remote users, under most circumstances, will
have at least one slow hop intervening that's sufficiently pokey that
they'll have no way to tell the difference.

Mind you, that's not to say that incredibly sucky aDSL can't be found.
Try putting your Web server on typical SBC service, for example.  ;->


> * Discounts for the charitable are great.

People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it
really is.  You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing
of a corporation).  The corporation must be non-profit.  (Strictly
speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated
association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.)
_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under
Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories.
And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a
long time.

There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the determination
letter.  For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221.

> MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
> presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
> bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
> being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
> with the in situ wetware?

Well, think about it:  If you can visit the colo (which might or might
not be restricted to certain hours), then you can hard-reboot.  You can 
connect up a monitor and keyboard to diagnose.  You can load stuff
directly from CD-ROM, DVD, or USB flash drive.  

Absent that physical access, if the box becomes unreachable, you can
telephone or e-mail the colo and have them send a rackmonkey over to 
power-cycle it or do some very rudimentary types of investigation.  
If that doesn't work, you can only (as appropriate) either have them 
PXE boot the box and overwrite it with some distro default load, or 
unrack it and FedEx it somewhere for investigation.

The nice thing is:  If you can live with those limitations, you can have 
your box (or virtual machine) be wherever on Earth offers you the best 
prices and most reasonable terms.

Fancy colos with 24-hour hot-and-cold-running rackmonkeys, laughable
for-show "high security" airlock-like mantraps and bullshit NDA-signing
requirements imposed on all visitors add a lot to the monthly fees, and
basically equate to "Customer has more money than brains, and copies
what his golf buddies / resident VC overlord do."

> There's a guy down the street from me who
> has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
> His clients are dozers who read their email and
> sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
> bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
> it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
> address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
> assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
> wifi connection between my back deck and his
> roof. Given our good relations with him, we
> could make our connection available to others,
> too, for some consideration (money or help or
> smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
> the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Sounds promising, though I'm not sure what the "make our connection
available to others" bit refers to.

I hope you do realise that people "reading mail and doing Web browsing" 
are the bandwidth vendor's dream customer.  That's exactly the target
market that the ISPs have tried to suck up to for years, while trying
to discourage any serious-Internet-user customer who, say, pulls down
lots of Linux/BSD ISO images, or runs a Web server -- let alone, say,
streaming video.

The ISP business (like the hosting business) has often involved
overcommitting and overpromising limited bandwidth and machine
resources, while hoping that most of your customers will (1) use 
very little of what they're paying for, and (2) not notice the impaired
performance.

If _you_ as a service provider don't do that, the other guy will, and
will be able to undercut your prices.  Which means, as long as it's 
a market where most of the customers have no idea what they're doing
and can't tell good service from bad, you have a race for bottom dollar
and consequently terrible service for everyone.  More at:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles

> Opinions?

Just pick something.  It won't be perfect, and a whole bunch of people
will tell you should have done something else, but their preferences
would have had drawbacks, too, which they might not even be aware of.





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 01:01:29 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:01:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <ACF8BDC8-7B4B-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
	<ACF8BDC8-7B4B-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060102090128.GQ2501@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> * (i had no idea CPUs and motherboards had
> such nicknames.) 

Intel's been doing that for years.  They'll take the inital letter or
two of the _real_ model number and expand it out into some
human-friendly name, which then becomes the nickname.

> I'd like to know what are the
> best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and
> such in the first half of 2006. 

Ja, well, that's the trick, isn't it?  You can garner a big pile of
opinions, and then try to decide which are worth anything.  I have a
vague, fuzzy, and not-necessarily-easily-usable rule of thumb called
Moen's Law of Hardware:  "Use what the programmers use."  More at:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware

Facile theorising^W^WText at that URL explains the rationale and how
it's been usefully applied in the past.  It's not a by-the-numbers
crystal ball for the near future, though.

If you can find out to compelling levels of certainty what's going to be
great computer hardware for the next few years, don't tell _us_:  Keep
it to yourself and make a fortune.

"Best" implies a single monotonic scale of achievement, which is
obviously a no-go when you realise that different situations demand
different things.  For example, at the moment, I'm so tired of the
soprano whine in my living room[1] that "best" would be something 
_quiet_, small, and power-thrifty, probably light on CPU and with 
relative emphasis on I/O.  I wouldn't give a damn about the video, since 
the box runs headless.

By contrast, a gamer would want something noisy, flashy, and (by my
standards) insanely overpowered in the CPU department, with some gonzo
cutting-edge video chipset that yields the highest possible 3D
framerate.  Probably Nvidia Nforce4-whatever stuff, about which see:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html#nvidia
(Nvidia hardware has many impassioned fans, many of them 3D gamers, but 
it is not in general very open-source friendly.)

> SATA is the way to go?

SATA for the plebes and for non-performance-and-integrity-sensitive 
commodity boxes.  Serial-Attached SCSI (SAS) for databases and such.

PATA's gone (except as an attachment, for now, for CD/CDR/DVD drives and
old HDs you haven't discarded, yet).  Don't buy _new_ PATA HDs!  That
would be really dumb.


>  How about all-RAM systems?

For tiny, special-purpose embedded applications, sure.  Put the whole
special-purpose OS build into CMOS and/or ROMs, and run it with a
RAMdisk.  Otherwise, sorry, not reasonable in any universe whose sky
colour I know.

> * What are the tradeoffs of do-it-at-your-house
> vs colo (your box lives there) vs web hosting
> (not your box)? 

Oh, you can (and, well, should) figure that one out from just logic and
knowledge of how different situations work.

> The downside of the Uncle Enzo solution
> (and the cheap laptop solution) is that the
> older he gets, the more likely is hardware
> failure.

Well, it's not just that.  The electric draw of a 1998 rackmount 2U 
server is non-trivial, and probably is a significant amount of my PG&E
bill.  The delta between that and the draw from a $50 laptop might 
be recoverable in a couple of months.  (I actually haven't done the
math, so that's a SWAG[2].)

> Once something goes (the drives,
> controller, motherboard...), he's probably
> permanently gone, as the money to
> repair/replace is a bad spend, yes?

Drives are an exception:  I have a big pile of obsolete (but tested)
SCSI drives in the garage.  I also have a couple of spare compatible PSUs.
The rest -- you're right -- except those are the parts that aren't 
failure-prone (except the fan on the PIII and the three 2" case fans).

Absent overheating or power surges, the all-eletronic subassemblies tend
to live almost forever.  It's the mechanical parts that seize up and
commit seppuku.

Mind, you can then get cascading failures if, say, fan bearings fail, 
because you then get heat-induced stress and early death on
this-and-that other part.

[1] No, not Deirdre.  She doesn't whine, and she's an alto, anyway.  
I refer to the PIII rackmount server box.

[2] Silly Wild-Assed Guess.

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 01:44:50 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:44:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <ACF8BDC8-7B4B-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com>
	<ACF8BDC8-7B4B-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060102094450.GR2501@linuxmafia.com>

Er, not trying to overwhelm this thread, but an aspect of this
that I think is worth stressing:

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> I'd like to know what are the
> best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and
> such in the first half of 2006.

In general, hold back from the new stuff that all the Ziff-Davis / CNet
idiots push endlessly.  If you read the text following "Moen's Law of
Hardware" at http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware , 
you'll probably get the (correct) idea that I'm stressing that point
strongly, because it's counter-intuitive to a lot of newcomers.

There's an old techie joke:

Q:  How do you tell the pioneers in the computer field?
A:  By the arrows sticking out of their backs.

You want someone else to be the pioneer.  This point applies to all
newly introduced _chipset_ that must have Linux support developed for it
(e.g., video chips as to X11 graphics support, SATA, SCSI, sound,
ethernet, softmodems, etc.).  If you don't know what a "chipset" is, 
_learn_.  ;->

Since you really don't want to have to rely on lame-ass proprietary
drivers (if available at all), you want it to be likely that there are
_good, well-tested_ open-source drivers.  Which means you want to
scrupulously avoid the shiny-new fashionable stuff -- along with the
exotic stuff, the non-standard-protocols stuff, the cheap-shlock stuff,
the new-chipset-every-week stuff.

Ideally, you want bog-standard, medium-to-slightly-high quality chipsets
that have been included in shipped systems/parts for at least a year.

Personally, I like used stuff, which also avoids new-car 20%
depreciation-in-the-first-block syndrome.  ;->

-- 
Cheers,    "Cthulhu loves me, this I know; because the High Priests tell me so!
Rick Moen   He won't eat me, no, not yet.  He's my Elder God, dank and wet!"
rick at linuxmafia.com



From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 08:22:55 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:22:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC 
In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060102162255.71016.qmail@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Your neighbor with the T-1 and WiFi sounds like a good solution. Just make sure you get his permission in writing; a man in Florida was recently prosecuted for using his neighbors WiFi without permission (the court thereby setting a precedent that using someone else's WiFi, even if the signal is unprotected, is illegal.)

The sf-lug website will probably not require high bandwidth. But hey, bandwidth is good and it reminds me of the old saying "you can never be too rich or too handsome."

Having your own server and control over it is good and will require you to learn a bunch of stuff. If you don't want to learn the sys admin stuff, then go with shared hosting at a provider.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe


jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote: 
RFC:
I've gone round and round on this colo vs stick to
what we've got vs web hosting that I'm dizzy. Issues:
* It's a good, good thing that we members have root
access to the boxes. Those of us who want to jump
in will learn linux better.
* It's a good thing that we members have physical
access to the boxes.
* It's a thing to save money: $15 per month is a
better thing than $100 per month.
* We assume the ability to tweak our web pages
ourselves whenever we like.
* T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.
* Discounts for the charitable are great.
* Sharing costs with others gets better situations at
less cost but with possibly more confusion (the
others may have root access, too).
* XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good,
but what's the learning curve?

    MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
with the in situ wetware?

    There's a guy down the street from me who
has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
His clients are dozers who read their email and
sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
wifi connection between my back deck and his
roof. Given our good relations with him, we
could make our connection available to others,
too, for some consideration (money or help or
smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Your opinions?


On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:29 PM, John Lowry wrote:

> I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us 
> up with a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and 
> have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a 
> %40 discount.
>  They work at Media Temple
>
> www.mediatemple.net
>
> -- 
> John Lowry
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/19e1bd12/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 08:36:57 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:36:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC
In-Reply-To: <20060102065430.GM2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060102163657.63768.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Further thoughts:

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.

Sure, but don't forget the driveway effect.

Imagine a guy with an hour-long commute every morning.  He decides
to fix it, by putting banked, 50MPH-rated curves into his 1/4 mile
driveway.  And of course that really does no good, because the real
bottleneck is the 45 mintes he spends going 15MPH on the freeway, 
not those 30 seconds reaching the street.

Being on T-1 instead of aDSL is great if the site is heavily loaded,
or if it routinely moves big bulk transfers of data.  E.g., when my
machine lived on T-1:

o  The building's LAN didn't break a sweat when I got slashdotted.
o  I maintained a full Debian package mirror (which was then "only" 
   about 15GB).

On aDSL:

o  The house LAN gets clobbered when I get slashdotted (but 
   survives and is reachable, if barely).
o  No more full Debian mirror.  (I don't have enough disk space,
   anyway.)

Web servers that _aren't_ heavily loaded are rather like that guy with
the long driveway.  Most remote users, under most circumstances, will
have at least one slow hop intervening that's sufficiently pokey that
they'll have no way to tell the difference.

Mind you, that's not to say that incredibly sucky aDSL can't be found.
Try putting your Web server on typical SBC service, for example.  ;->


> * Discounts for the charitable are great.

People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it
really is.  You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing
of a corporation).  The corporation must be non-profit.  (Strictly
speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated
association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.)
_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under
Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories.
And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a
long time.

There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the determination
letter.  For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221.

> MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
> presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
> bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
> being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
> with the in situ wetware?

Well, think about it:  If you can visit the colo (which might or might
not be restricted to certain hours), then you can hard-reboot.  You can 
connect up a monitor and keyboard to diagnose.  You can load stuff
directly from CD-ROM, DVD, or USB flash drive.  

Absent that physical access, if the box becomes unreachable, you can
telephone or e-mail the colo and have them send a rackmonkey over to 
power-cycle it or do some very rudimentary types of investigation.  
If that doesn't work, you can only (as appropriate) either have them 
PXE boot the box and overwrite it with some distro default load, or 
unrack it and FedEx it somewhere for investigation.

The nice thing is:  If you can live with those limitations, you can have 
your box (or virtual machine) be wherever on Earth offers you the best 
prices and most reasonable terms.

Fancy colos with 24-hour hot-and-cold-running rackmonkeys, laughable
for-show "high security" airlock-like mantraps and bullshit NDA-signing
requirements imposed on all visitors add a lot to the monthly fees, and
basically equate to "Customer has more money than brains, and copies
what his golf buddies / resident VC overlord do."

> There's a guy down the street from me who
> has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
> His clients are dozers who read their email and
> sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
> bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
> it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
> address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
> assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
> wifi connection between my back deck and his
> roof. Given our good relations with him, we
> could make our connection available to others,
> too, for some consideration (money or help or
> smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
> the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Sounds promising, though I'm not sure what the "make our connection
available to others" bit refers to.

I hope you do realise that people "reading mail and doing Web browsing" 
are the bandwidth vendor's dream customer.  That's exactly the target
market that the ISPs have tried to suck up to for years, while trying
to discourage any serious-Internet-user customer who, say, pulls down
lots of Linux/BSD ISO images, or runs a Web server -- let alone, say,
streaming video.

The ISP business (like the hosting business) has often involved
overcommitting and overpromising limited bandwidth and machine
resources, while hoping that most of your customers will (1) use 
very little of what they're paying for, and (2) not notice the impaired
performance.

If _you_ as a service provider don't do that, the other guy will, and
will be able to undercut your prices.  Which means, as long as it's 
a market where most of the customers have no idea what they're doing
and can't tell good service from bad, you have a race for bottom dollar
and consequently terrible service for everyone.  More at:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles

> Opinions?

Just pick something.  It won't be perfect, and a whole bunch of people
will tell you should have done something else, but their preferences
would have had drawbacks, too, which they might not even be aware of.



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/c0538dbe/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 08:40:53 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:40:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC
Message-ID: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>> * Discounts for the charitable are great.

>People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it
>really is.  You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing
>of a corporation).  The corporation must be non-profit.  (Strictly
>speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated
>association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.)
>_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under
>Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories.
>And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a
>long time.

>There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the 
>determination letter.  For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221.


Why do you want sf-lug to exist as a non-profit? Unless it is a large group with lots of expenses (think BMUG, may it RIP) it doesn't make any sense to do that and it will be way more hassle than it is worth.

- Adrien Lamothe



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/066c0d9d/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 08:50:34 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:50:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>Ja, well, that's the trick, isn't it?  You can garner a big pile of
>opinions, and then try to decide which are worth anything.  I have a
>vague, fuzzy, and not-necessarily-easily-usable rule of thumb called
>Moen's Law of Hardware:  "Use what the programmers use."  More at:
>http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware

My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. Sites such as http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.tomshardware.com do a good job of evaluating the latest hardware. While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet these days. The big excitment will happen in March or April, when Sony releases the Playstation 3, which is based on the new IBM/Sony/Toshiba "Cell" processor. IBM has ported Linux to the Cell and Sony plans to use Linux as the operating system.

- Adrien Lamothe



		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/d1729928/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 10:53:06 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:53:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC
In-Reply-To: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060102185305.GO2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Why do you want sf-lug to exist as a non-profit? Unless it is a large
> group with lots of expenses (think BMUG, may it RIP) it doesn't make
> any sense to do that and it will be way more hassle than it is worth.

I hope you're intending that question for _Jim_, not me:  Jim seemed to be
speaking of how nice it would be to have tax-exempt charitable status; 
I was pointing out in response that it's probably a lot more hassle than
it's worth.  ;->




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 11:19:13 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. 

They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
drivers; they flock to it.  Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
out of balance by normal-usage standards:  heavy on CPU and video
processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.

During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
motherboards.  Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
performance.

And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.

I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
results and benchmarks.

> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
> these days. 

Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons.  2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T,
too).




From jmg999 at juno.com  Mon Jan  2 11:22:23 2006
From: jmg999 at juno.com (Jeffe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:22:23 GMT
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/a21c29d7/attachment.ksh>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 11:40:06 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:40:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>
References: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20060102194006.GQ2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Jeffe (jmg999 at juno.com):

> Please remove me from this list.

I'm not the listadmin, but unsubscribing from mailing lists you've
chosen to join, rather like bathing and brushing your teeth, is
something you're expected to do for yourself.

Notice the footer at the bottom of each and every post, including yours? 
It includes a URL where you can do that -- so you have no excuse for
claiming to be unable.

>  It's really irritating to receive 55 e-mails everyday from you guys.

You might also be aware that you can set your subscription to digest
mode -- to get digests rather than a copy of each post.




From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  2 12:56:42 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:56:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] email statistics for sf-lug mailing list 
In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>
References: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <46CCD910-7BD2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    i hate to lose you, Jeffe. What about batch mode--
you receive just one email per day with whatever
the day's activity, which many days is none (so no
batch mail that day, either). You can make the change
yourself; let me know and I'll change however you want.

    As a note, sf-lug email averages about 3.5 emails
per day since we started May 24 2004.

    The following lists all days that had email of 10
or more for the day.

2006
Jan 2: 9  Jan 1: 13  # this mail will make it 10 for Jan 2:

2005
oct 6: 10  Aug 8: 17  Aug 2: 11  Jul 8: 11

2004
Oct 12: 16  Oct 12: 11  Oct 8: 12  Oct 6 15
Sep 29: 12  Sep 15: 14  Sep 13: 11  Sep 2 13
Aug 16: 16  Aug 12: 15  Aug 3: 11  Aug 2: 10
Jul 27: 26  Jul 19: 21  Jul 16: 12  Jul 8: 26
Jul 6: 19  Jul 5: 22  Jun 24: 18  Jun 23: 16

And the winner is...
A tie between July 6, 2004 and July 27, 2004,
each shuddering under the burden of 26 emails.



On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Jeffe wrote:

> Please remove me from this list.  It's really irritating to receive 55  
> e-mails everyday from you guys.  You should really look into an online  
> forum.
>
>
>
> -- Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Return-Path: <sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com>
> Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75])
> 	by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS
> 	for <jmg999 at juno.com> (sender <sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com>);
> 	Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186])
> 	by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S
> 	for <jmg999 at juno.com> (sender <sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com>);
> 	Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365  
> helo=linuxmafia.com)
> 	 by linuxmafia.com with esmtp   (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0))
> 	 id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj   ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800
> Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1  
> (EximConfig
> 	2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ  by authid <rick>
> 	for <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513 at linuxmafia.com>
> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Disposition: inline
> In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> X-Mas: Bah humbug.
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> X-BeenThere: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list  
> <sf-lug.linuxmafia.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug>,
> 	<mailto:sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug>
> List-Post: <mailto:sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> List-Help: <mailto:sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug>,
> 	<mailto:sf-lug-request at linuxmafia.com?subject=subscribe>
> Sender: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com  
> (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig)
> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on  
> linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Level:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00
> 	autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100)
> X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178
> X-MAIL-INFO: 
> 5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c 
> 1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981
> X-UNTD-Peer-Info:  
> 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug- 
> bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-UNTD-UBE:-1
> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
>> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
>> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
>> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware.
>
> They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
> drivers; they flock to it.  Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
> out of balance by normal-usage standards:  heavy on CPU and video
> processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.
>
> During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
> tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
> people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
> Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
> transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
> motherboards.  Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
> list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
> think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
> chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
> were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
> performance.
>
> And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
> anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.
>
> I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
> interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
> results and benchmarks.
>
>> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
>> these days.
>
> Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons.  2.4 has problem, there (and on  
> EM64T,
> too).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage.
> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 22:30:14 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:30:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
>drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
>out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video
>processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.

I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers have worked without a hitch.

>I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
>interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
>results and benchmarks.

Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux, since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA. SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.) useful, even from a Linux perspective.

I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis. So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not installing to having the system lock-up. These problems occurred on several different computers, the same computers that are able to run SuSE 9.3 without a hitch. I hope to one day play around with Debian package management, but I'll have to put that day on hold until I find a Debian distro that actually works. Now I understand why much of the activity at Cabal meetings involves trying to get Debian working on all the different systems people bring; I always thought it odd that so much time was spent on that. I have seen Debian working on systems at Cabal, so I know it can be done.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/ded31551/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 22:32:47 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:32:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com>
Message-ID: <20060103063247.97333.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Excuse me, Jeffe, but that is precisely what this type of mailing list is intended for. You can choose to receive weekly digests of the postings, so all the messages are in one file. I'm sorry you misunderstood how this type of forum works.


Jeffe <jmg999 at juno.com> wrote: Please remove me from this list.  It's really irritating to receive 55 e-mails everyday from you guys.  You should really look into an online forum.



-- Rick Moen  wrote:
Return-Path: 
Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75])
 by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS
 for  (sender );
 Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186])
 by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S
 for  (sender );
 Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365 helo=linuxmafia.com)
  by linuxmafia.com with esmtp   (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0))
  id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj   ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800
Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig
 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ  by authid   
 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513 at linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
X-Mas: Bah humbug.
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
From: Rick Moen 
X-BeenThere: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list 
List-Unsubscribe: ,
 
List-Archive: 
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: ,
 
Sender: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig)
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 
 autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100)
X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178
X-MAIL-INFO:5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981
X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
X-UNTD-UBE:-1
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. 

They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
drivers; they flock to it.  Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
out of balance by normal-usage standards:  heavy on CPU and video
processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.

During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
motherboards.  Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
performance.

And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.

I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
results and benchmarks.

> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
> these days. 

Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons.  2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T,
too).


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



___________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Shopping
 Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/94d59ed0/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  2 22:35:02 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:35:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] email statistics for sf-lug mailing list 
In-Reply-To: <46CCD910-7BD2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060103063502.64726.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hmm..., 3.5 emails a day is quite a bit less than 55 per day...



jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote: 
    i hate to lose you, Jeffe. What about batch mode--
you receive just one email per day with whatever
the day's activity, which many days is none (so no
batch mail that day, either). You can make the change
yourself; let me know and I'll change however you want.

    As a note, sf-lug email averages about 3.5 emails
per day since we started May 24 2004.

    The following lists all days that had email of 10
or more for the day.

2006
Jan 2: 9  Jan 1: 13  # this mail will make it 10 for Jan 2:

2005
oct 6: 10  Aug 8: 17  Aug 2: 11  Jul 8: 11

2004
Oct 12: 16  Oct 12: 11  Oct 8: 12  Oct 6 15
Sep 29: 12  Sep 15: 14  Sep 13: 11  Sep 2 13
Aug 16: 16  Aug 12: 15  Aug 3: 11  Aug 2: 10
Jul 27: 26  Jul 19: 21  Jul 16: 12  Jul 8: 26
Jul 6: 19  Jul 5: 22  Jun 24: 18  Jun 23: 16

And the winner is...
A tie between July 6, 2004 and July 27, 2004,
each shuddering under the burden of 26 emails.



On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Jeffe wrote:

> Please remove me from this list.  It's really irritating to receive 55  
> e-mails everyday from you guys.  You should really look into an online  
> forum.
>
>
>
> -- Rick Moen  wrote:
> Return-Path: 
> Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75])
>  by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS
>  for  (sender );
>  Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186])
>  by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S
>  for  (sender );
>  Mon,  2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365  
> helo=linuxmafia.com)
>   by linuxmafia.com with esmtp   (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0))
>   id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj   ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800
> Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1  
> (EximConfig
>  2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ  by authid 
>  for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513 at linuxmafia.com>
> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Disposition: inline
> In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail at web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> X-Mas: Bah humbug.
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
> From: Rick Moen 
> X-BeenThere: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list  
> 
> List-Unsubscribe: ,
>  
> List-Archive: 
> List-Post: 
> List-Help: 
> List-Subscribe: ,
>  
> Sender: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com  
> (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig)
> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on  
> linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Level:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00
>  autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100)
> X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178
> X-MAIL-INFO: 
> 5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c 
> 1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981
> X-UNTD-Peer-Info:  
> 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug- 
> bounces at linuxmafia.com
> X-UNTD-UBE:-1
> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
>> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
>> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
>> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware.
>
> They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
> drivers; they flock to it.  Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
> out of balance by normal-usage standards:  heavy on CPU and video
> processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.
>
> During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
> tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
> people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
> Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
> transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
> motherboards.  Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
> list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
> think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
> chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
> were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
> performance.
>
> And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
> anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.
>
> I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
> interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
> results and benchmarks.
>
>> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
>> these days.
>
> Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons.  2.4 has problem, there (and on  
> EM64T,
> too).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage.
> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060102/c36c51c5/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  2 23:05:21 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:05:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and
> configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've
> run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that
> would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers
> have worked without a hitch.

(I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.:  Half-Life is _not_ a
Linux application.  It's a DirectX Windows one.)  

When I said "grossly out of balance", I of course meant in the context
of more typical Linux usage (office-type apps, Web browsing, etc.).  A
typical 3D gamer box has, for _any usage but gaming_, an overpriced CPU
that goes almost unused, and an overpriced video card that goes almost
unused.  Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux
environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be much
less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes.

It should go without saying that, when you build a box for Windows 3D
gaming (whether on straight MS-Windows or in a Win32 emulation
environment), then a machine such as you describe would _not_ be
"grossly out of balance" -- because the highly atypical usage model
works best with exactly that sort of box.

However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told
me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux
general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of
money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that
radically different usage scenario.

Why?  Because mine would have the money allocated differently among the
subassemblies, taking _a lot_ away from where it doesn't matter quite
that much (CPU, video) and sinking more into what relatively lags on the
gamer box (I/O).


> Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux,
> since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them
> purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself
> and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA.
> SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever
> hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms
> Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware
> issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.)
> useful, even from a Linux perspective.

I note that SUSE Linux usually includes quite a lot of proprietary,
binary-only hardware drivers -- more than do most distros.  Mind you,
that's fine:  It can be handy to have, as you found out.  However, the
point is that _needing_ them is undesirable, when you can avoid it.

A lot of people with such hardware (winmodems, most USB ADSL bridges,
certain exotic video chips, some SATA, some sound chips, some ethernet)
have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate 
the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).  And others have found
themselves with mysterious kernel-level bugs and kernel panics:  When 
they try to report those to the Linux kernel mailing list, they're
surprised to see the bug report rejected because their kernel was
"tainted" by the proprietary driver.  (The kernel coders had to finally
put in code to detect proprietary drivers and automark any bug reports
as suspect, because they were being driven crazy by Nvidia users
reporting "kernel bugs" that originated in Nvidia drivers and couldn't
be fixed for lack of source code access.)


> I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to
> uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with
> SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis.
> So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not
> installing to having the system lock-up. 

That might have been because, unlike SUSE 9.3, those Debian-based
distros don't have as huge a collection of proprietary hardware drivers.
Dunno:  It's speculation.  (Obviously, SUSE 10.0 has separate problems, 
for other reasons entirely.)

By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully) 
available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has
much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions --
for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any
grant of a right of redistribution to the public.



From jim at well.com  Tue Jan  3 08:11:05 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:11:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    rick, you mention i/o considerations when you
discuss balance.
    could you elucidate some? Balance seems to
mean getting a right sufficiency of CPU, RAM,
storage, console (display, keyboard, mouse),
and seems to me other i/o-ish stuff.
    my interest is first the bus: PCI is best?
    then NIC? then what?
gratefully,
jim


On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:05 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>> I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and
>> configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've
>> run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that
>> would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers
>> have worked without a hitch.
>
> (I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.:  Half-Life is _not_ a
> Linux application.  It's a DirectX Windows one.)
>
> When I said "grossly out of balance", I of course meant in the context
> of more typical Linux usage (office-type apps, Web browsing, etc.).  A
> typical 3D gamer box has, for _any usage but gaming_, an overpriced CPU
> that goes almost unused, and an overpriced video card that goes almost
> unused.  Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux
> environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be 
> much
> less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes.
>
> It should go without saying that, when you build a box for Windows 3D
> gaming (whether on straight MS-Windows or in a Win32 emulation
> environment), then a machine such as you describe would _not_ be
> "grossly out of balance" -- because the highly atypical usage model
> works best with exactly that sort of box.
>
> However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told
> me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux
> general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of
> money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that
> radically different usage scenario.
>
> Why?  Because mine would have the money allocated differently among the
> subassemblies, taking _a lot_ away from where it doesn't matter quite
> that much (CPU, video) and sinking more into what relatively lags on 
> the
> gamer box (I/O).
>
>
>> Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux,
>> since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them
>> purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself
>> and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA.
>> SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever
>> hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms
>> Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware
>> issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.)
>> useful, even from a Linux perspective.
>
> I note that SUSE Linux usually includes quite a lot of proprietary,
> binary-only hardware drivers -- more than do most distros.  Mind you,
> that's fine:  It can be handy to have, as you found out.  However, the
> point is that _needing_ them is undesirable, when you can avoid it.
>
> A lot of people with such hardware (winmodems, most USB ADSL bridges,
> certain exotic video chips, some SATA, some sound chips, some ethernet)
> have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
> unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate
> the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).  And others have found
> themselves with mysterious kernel-level bugs and kernel panics:  When
> they try to report those to the Linux kernel mailing list, they're
> surprised to see the bug report rejected because their kernel was
> "tainted" by the proprietary driver.  (The kernel coders had to finally
> put in code to detect proprietary drivers and automark any bug reports
> as suspect, because they were being driven crazy by Nvidia users
> reporting "kernel bugs" that originated in Nvidia drivers and couldn't
> be fixed for lack of source code access.)
>
>
>> I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to
>> uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with
>> SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis.
>> So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not
>> installing to having the system lock-up.
>
> That might have been because, unlike SUSE 9.3, those Debian-based
> distros don't have as huge a collection of proprietary hardware 
> drivers.
> Dunno:  It's speculation.  (Obviously, SUSE 10.0 has separate problems,
> for other reasons entirely.)
>
> By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully)
> available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has
> much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions --
> for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any
> grant of a right of redistribution to the public.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 08:55:06 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:55:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

>    rick, you mention i/o considerations when you
> discuss balance.
>    could you elucidate some? 

Hi, sorry to say that I'm going to have to rush this reply -- a lot.  
(Am doing work stuff.)  'Hope it comes out coherent and relevant.

I sort of threw into "I/O" just about everything else other than the
aspects I mentioned:  disk access, various actual I/O ports, memory
access.  But I meant primarily disk (mass storage subsystem) performance
-- given that gamers _are_ smart enough to ensure adequate amounts of
fast RAM on a fast memory bus.

>    my interest is first the bus: PCI is best?
>    then NIC? then what?

Apologies, but I don't understand the question.

In _any_ given situation, the component you want to take out and shoot
is whatever is the one that's holding you back, that is the most
significant bottleneck for whatever operations are going on at that
moment.

As a (hypothetical) system designer, your task is to allocate your
spending dollars in the various categories so that they do the most 
good, in the sense that (theoretically) shifting a dollar from that 
aspect of the machine to any other would result in slower and less
satisfactory performance.  That's what a bottleneck _is_.

Basically, bottlenecks exist only relative to usage models and situations. 
It makes no sense to say "You must always get a good X".


Imagine that I had an Internet server running my domain on a 1.54Mbps
T-1 line, again.  (That would elminate, for purposes of our
hypothetical, the current aDSL bottleneck, in the presence of which
basically _all_ of uncle-enzo's pieces are so far in excess of need that
it's a "who cares" situation.)

In that case, _if_ I attempted to do that server-role duty (Apache
httpd, MySQL, rsync daemon, vsftpd, OpenSSHd, ntpd, etc.) using Linux on
a typical gamer box, it would be the (usually) anemic hard drive
subsystem that held the system back, mostly.  By contrast, the extremely
expensive CPU(s) would go almost entirely to waste, and ditto (of
course) the Nvidia GeForce4 video thingie, even if the machine didn't
run headless as normal.

The machine that actually _did_ fill that role (on the T-1) back around
1997 also simultaneously served as my main desktop box -- multiple
xterms, AbiWord, Netscape Communicator, Gnumeric, Window Maker for the 
window manager.  It was my now-antique K2/233 with 128MB of PC-100 CAS2
SDRAM and two very fast SCSI drives.  And _that_ machine could saturate
the T-1 while simultaneously being my desktop box in foreground.

Sorry that I can't give you easy, bankable guidelines:  In truth, all 
aspects of the hardware are important, but just not _equally_ important 
unless you either cut too deeply or splurge too much in that area.  What
is too much or too little is a matter of judgement and knowing what
_types_ of stress (in what hardware areas) the intended machine usage
will put on the box.  

Adrien's point is a really good one, that a machine that is intended to
run Half-Life -- either in a pure MS-Windows environment or in an
emulated Windows environment under Linux/X11 -- pretty much ought to 
have its strengths and weaknesses arranged the way a typical gamer box
is:  stupendous (and expensive) CPU and 3D-oriented video, and
relatively sucky in I/O areas particularly mass storage performance.

My point was intended to parallel that:  that, even aside from
open-source vs. proprietary driver issues, a box intended for 
_more typical_ tasks in a native-Linux environment (whether server or
desktop) would do better at any given price point if it had less
emphasis in typical-gamer areas, and more on good HD performance.
(Snappy video is often a really good idea, but that does _not_ require
fancy 3D stuff used basically only in 3D games and some sorts of exotic
scientific "visualisation" software.  E.g., an aging Matrox card with
exceptional 2D aka regular video imaging might be just the thing.)




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 09:45:02 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:45:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060103174502.GA4933@linuxmafia.com>

Hmm, I did warn that I was going to be rushed.

> As a (hypothetical) system designer, your task is to allocate your
> spending dollars in the various categories so that they do the most 
> good, in the sense that (theoretically) shifting a dollar from that 
> aspect of the machine to any other would result in slower and less
> satisfactory performance.  That's what a bottleneck _is_.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

More accurately, that's what the absence of a bottleneck is.

> The machine that actually _did_ fill that role (on the T-1) back around
> 1997 also simultaneously served as my main desktop box -- multiple
> xterms, AbiWord, Netscape Communicator, Gnumeric, Window Maker for the 
> window manager.  It was my now-antique K2/233 with 128MB of PC-100 [...]
                                         ^^^^^^

That's "K6/233", AMD's predecessor to the Athlon.[1]  Pretty much the last
x86 CPU to run super-cool -- though Intel's Pentium M "mobile" series is
reported to be respectable.

It's a measure of just how much CPU power (usually) doesn't matter in
(at least conservative-type) typical Linux deployments that the 1997-era 
K6 box is _still_ pretty zippy, either functioning as pretty much any
type or server or running lightweight X11 desktop environments such as
Window Maker.  Of course, if I tried to animation-rendering work, or KDE
with all the chrome-effects enabled, it'd be toast.

[1] In all aspects other than floating-point performance, it was the
equal of the PPro and Pentium II CPUs of the same era -- and cost a
great deal less, _and_ ran a lot cooler.




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  3 09:53:10 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:53:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,
Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this world?
 
http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/
 
Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060103/1ee3905f/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 10:42:06 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:42:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060103184206.GJ2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com.
> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this
> world?
>  
> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/

Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can hear a
lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on Rails.
(See below.)  AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well 
as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google Maps).
Of possible related interest:  http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html



 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800
 From: Augie Schwer <augie at nblug.org>
 Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group
 To: announce at nblug.org
 Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails

Hello NBLUG'ers,

This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and
very popular Ruby on Rails development framework.

Description:

"Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for
programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write
beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.

Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web
application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of the
best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how
it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun."

Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm
End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm
Location:
O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA
http://nblug.org/genloc

We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know
would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please
send an e-mail to speakers at nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward
to seeing you all there at the next meeting.




From david at sterryit.com  Tue Jan  3 13:41:43 2006
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:41:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20060103184206.GJ2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo>

You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another
guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that
works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. You
can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at
http://www.sterryit.com/chatr

It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated.

David Sterry, MCSE
Tel 650-773-5942
Fax 650-523-8634
David at SterryIT.com
http://www.SterryIT.com
805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200
Redwood City, CA  94063


-----Original Message-----
From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
[mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM
To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject)

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com.
> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this
> world?
>  
> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/

Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can
hear a
lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on Rails.
(See below.)  AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well 
as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google
Maps).
Of possible related interest:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html



 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800
 From: Augie Schwer <augie at nblug.org>
 Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group
 To: announce at nblug.org
 Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails

Hello NBLUG'ers,

This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and
very popular Ruby on Rails development framework.

Description:

"Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for
programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write
beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.

Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web
application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of the
best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how
it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun."

Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm
End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm
Location:
O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA
http://nblug.org/genloc

We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know
would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please
send an e-mail to speakers at nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward
to seeing you all there at the next meeting.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  3 19:27:51 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 19:27:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>(I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.:  Half-Life is _not_ a
Linux application.  It's a DirectX Windows one.)  

I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life." This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux versions.

>Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux
>environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be 
>much less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes.

That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy.

>However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told
>me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux
>general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of
>money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that
>radically different usage scenario.

Well, we were actually given a server by a corporate sponsor, as part of a special event, so price wasn't an issue. The box is an Athlon 64 with Serial ATA RAID. It is currently running Fedora Core.

>have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
>unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate 
>the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).

My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.)

>By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully) 
>available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has
>much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions --
>for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any
>grant of a right of redistribution to the public.

If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies are not given away for profit.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe



		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060103/da79e107/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  3 19:51:59 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 19:51:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


>I sort of threw into "I/O" just about everything else other than the
>aspects I mentioned:  disk access, various actual I/O ports, memory
>access.  But I meant primarily disk (mass storage subsystem) 
>performance -- given that gamers _are_ smart enough to ensure adequate amounts of
>fast RAM on a fast memory bus.

The computer industry has been going the way of the 
automotive industry - do things "good enough", but "cheap".
Hardly anyone uses SCSI anymore, many people think SATA is
just as fast, because of certain specs the vendors flaunt
to encourage such mis-perception. However, what they fail
to mention is that SCSI devices have a SCSI controller, and
that a SCSI controller is a separate slave microprocessor
that handles the bulk of data I/O. When the CPU/operating
system wants data from a SCSI device, the SCSI controller
is given some basic instructions:  1. where to find the data I want. 
2. a location to put that data.
The SCSI controller goes about doing its work and transfers
the data directly to memory, using a DMA channel to do so.
When the data transfer is complete, the SCSI controller
signals the CPU that "hey, I'm done, the data you wanted
is now where you wanted it." What does this mean to system
performance? It means the CPU is free for other activity
during a large portion of the data transfer. Under IDE,
the CPU is occupied for the entire period of data transfer.
While this is a slightly simplified description, it does
describe the architecture and salient differences.
For most people's computer usage, this performance gain
is not enough to justify spending more for SCSI, so people
settle for "good enough."

By the way, SCSI is still expensive. So, how much are you
willing to pay for a "smoking" system? Depends on your
requirements and the economic costs vs. benefits.

- Adrien







			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060103/f8ade9e2/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 20:06:32 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:06:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life."
> This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to
> host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers
> are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux
> versions.

Ah.  I had no idea that Half-Life uses a client-server model, not being,
as you probably figured out, much of a gamer.

[low CPU draw, in Linux:]

> That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with
> a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy.

Both environments tend towards the "heavy" in the sense of RAM gulping,
but not necessarily CPU usage -- especially if you cool it with the
optional visual effects glitter.  (This is easily adjustable in KDE if not 
GNOME.)

It doesn't stand to reason that merely running a CORBA broker would
create a heavy CPU draw, y'know:  It's just an object broker.  That
would hit up I/O (meaning mostly disk) and RAM, but not so much CPU.

> >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
> >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate 
> >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).
> 
> My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically
> configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of
> supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.)

I am not sure if you got my point on the fragility and lack of
portability of proprietary drivers, or not.  Your remarks pretty much
ignore what I said.  I'm delighted that your hardware works well, but
that really is unresponsive to what I said.

> If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and
> giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies
> are not given away for profit.

This is a frequently repeated misconception -- which I've been obliged
to disprove in several forums before, so I happen to have the material
handy:


First of all, that is not what the licence says, if you heed its _full_
language (cited below).  Second, even if it did say that, Novell/SUSE
Linux AG would not have the copyright title enabling it to speak for
(and nullify the non-redistributable licensing of) Adobe, Real Networks,
Opera Software ASA, and Matrica AG.

Disk 1 includes a number of licensing-relevant files in its root
directory.  Here are the English-language ones (as they're also
duplicated with German-language ones).

COPYING 
COPYRIGHT
LICENSE.TXT

Predictably, COPYING is the text of GPLv2.

COPYRIGHT is, in part, Novell's brief GPL-compliance document, pointing
out that a number of packages' source code is available, and stating
where to get it.  It also includes the following warning:

    Not all programs on the CDs are free software.  Some of them 
    are shareware, restricted to noncommercial use, or may have 
    other restrictive conditions. 
 
    The package information mentions the respective license and authors.
    We cannot, however, ensure the correctness of this information.  In
    cases of doubt, refer to the original copyright information of the
    respective programs. 

LICENSE.TXT asserts formation of a contract betwen any recipient and
Novell, Inc., concerning "Software", which is defined as "the software
product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if any), and
accompanying documentation".  The "title" is "SUSE LINUX PROFESSIONAL
9.3".

This text follows:

    You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for 
    Your distribution and use within Your Organization.  You 
    may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software 
    outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive
    no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine 
    the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, 
    or service).

However, the next paragraph severely limits that grant:

    The Software is a modular operating system.  Most of the components
    are open source packages, developed independently, and accompanied
    by separate license terms.  Your license rights with respect to
    individual components accompanied by separate license terms are
    defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement (including, for
    example, the "Other License Terms and Restrictions," below) shall
    restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You
    may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such
    license terms.

    [...]

    The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled
    Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs
    accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms;
    nothing in this Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect
    any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You
    may be subject, under such license terms.

    [...]

    Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with
    hardware or other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor
    other than Novell.

Interestingly, even the generous-sounding Novell rights grant cited
above is non-transferrable!

    Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without
    the prior written approval of Novell.

So, you're allowed to "make and distribute unlimited copies of the
Software outside Your organization", but then those recipients don't 
enjoy the same rights?  Weird.

Interestingly, Novell restricts benchmarking!

    Benchmark Testing.  This benchmark testing restriction applies to
    You if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on
    the Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor.
    You may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be
    unreasonably withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the
    results of any benchmark test of the Software.

Anyhow, I think that more than suffices to show that the claim is
incorrect.  That is why I refer to 9.3 Professional as a "shrik-wrapped
retail edition", one of several they've had, off and on.

I try to keep track of the editions and their legal status, here:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/suse-product-strategy.html





From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  3 20:25:42 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:25:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

What program, bundled with SuSE 9.3, disallows non-for-profit copying and dissemination?

Not allowing customers to benchmark a software product is illegal and unenforceable.

Novell profit declined 90% last quarter. We'll see what happens next quarter. Apparently most, if not all, of the SuSE develoers are gone from Novell. There is no way to know what is really happening at Novell, but the SuSE developers essentially WERE SuSE Linux. If Novell doesn't replace those developers, then the SuSE acquisition was a waste. But you have to be happy for the SuSE people, who toiled hard for many years, because they most likely received a very handsome payday when acquired by Novell.

- Adrien


Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life."
> This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to
> host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers
> are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux
> versions.

Ah.  I had no idea that Half-Life uses a client-server model, not being,
as you probably figured out, much of a gamer.

[low CPU draw, in Linux:]

> That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with
> a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy.

Both environments tend towards the "heavy" in the sense of RAM gulping,
but not necessarily CPU usage -- especially if you cool it with the
optional visual effects glitter.  (This is easily adjustable in KDE if not 
GNOME.)

It doesn't stand to reason that merely running a CORBA broker would
create a heavy CPU draw, y'know:  It's just an object broker.  That
would hit up I/O (meaning mostly disk) and RAM, but not so much CPU.

> >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
> >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate 
> >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).
> 
> My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically
> configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of
> supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.)

I am not sure if you got my point on the fragility and lack of
portability of proprietary drivers, or not.  Your remarks pretty much
ignore what I said.  I'm delighted that your hardware works well, but
that really is unresponsive to what I said.

> If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and
> giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies
> are not given away for profit.

This is a frequently repeated misconception -- which I've been obliged
to disprove in several forums before, so I happen to have the material
handy:


First of all, that is not what the licence says, if you heed its _full_
language (cited below).  Second, even if it did say that, Novell/SUSE
Linux AG would not have the copyright title enabling it to speak for
(and nullify the non-redistributable licensing of) Adobe, Real Networks,
Opera Software ASA, and Matrica AG.

Disk 1 includes a number of licensing-relevant files in its root
directory.  Here are the English-language ones (as they're also
duplicated with German-language ones).

COPYING 
COPYRIGHT
LICENSE.TXT

Predictably, COPYING is the text of GPLv2.

COPYRIGHT is, in part, Novell's brief GPL-compliance document, pointing
out that a number of packages' source code is available, and stating
where to get it.  It also includes the following warning:

    Not all programs on the CDs are free software.  Some of them 
    are shareware, restricted to noncommercial use, or may have 
    other restrictive conditions. 
 
    The package information mentions the respective license and authors.
    We cannot, however, ensure the correctness of this information.  In
    cases of doubt, refer to the original copyright information of the
    respective programs. 

LICENSE.TXT asserts formation of a contract betwen any recipient and
Novell, Inc., concerning "Software", which is defined as "the software
product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if any), and
accompanying documentation".  The "title" is "SUSE LINUX PROFESSIONAL
9.3".

This text follows:

    You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for 
    Your distribution and use within Your Organization.  You 
    may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software 
    outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive
    no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine 
    the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, 
    or service).

However, the next paragraph severely limits that grant:

    The Software is a modular operating system.  Most of the components
    are open source packages, developed independently, and accompanied
    by separate license terms.  Your license rights with respect to
    individual components accompanied by separate license terms are
    defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement (including, for
    example, the "Other License Terms and Restrictions," below) shall
    restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You
    may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such
    license terms.

    [...]

    The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled
    Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs
    accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms;
    nothing in this Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect
    any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You
    may be subject, under such license terms.

    [...]

    Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with
    hardware or other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor
    other than Novell.

Interestingly, even the generous-sounding Novell rights grant cited
above is non-transferrable!

    Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without
    the prior written approval of Novell.

So, you're allowed to "make and distribute unlimited copies of the
Software outside Your organization", but then those recipients don't 
enjoy the same rights?  Weird.

Interestingly, Novell restricts benchmarking!

    Benchmark Testing.  This benchmark testing restriction applies to
    You if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on
    the Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor.
    You may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be
    unreasonably withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the
    results of any benchmark test of the Software.

Anyhow, I think that more than suffices to show that the claim is
incorrect.  That is why I refer to 9.3 Professional as a "shrik-wrapped
retail edition", one of several they've had, off and on.

I try to keep track of the editions and their legal status, here:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/suse-product-strategy.html



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060103/0346f1f8/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 20:32:16 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:32:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> The computer industry has been going the way of the 
> automotive industry - do things "good enough", but "cheap".

Indeed.

> Hardly anyone uses SCSI anymore...

People who keep critical data, e.g., database machines with real data
that matters, on PATA/SATA are just a little reckless, for well-known
reasons.  (Or, let's just say that backups and their age would matter a
whole lot.)  And no, RAIDing them doesn't fix that.  The reasons relate
to metadata treatment and caching, and you can read about that, here:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BRZ/is_6_23/ai_105884199

Any admin who, say, puts a production Oracle server (with non-throwaway
data) on PATA/SATA deserves to be fired.

> ...many people think SATA is just as fast....

With enough write-behind cache memory at it, one can fool
one's self into thinking that.  Where speed for the _dollar_ is
concerned, it's actually true, because the SCSI vs. ATA pricing gap has
widened even further over the decade or so I've followed this issue.
(More about that, below.)  But that isn't very _safe_ speed in the
protection of current data sense, for reasons indicated.  Whether the
additional risk of losing a bunch of data back to your last good backup
tape is justified is of course a judgement call, and situation-dependent.

[...]

> It means the CPU is free for other activity
> during a large portion of the data transfer. Under IDE,
> the CPU is occupied for the entire period of data transfer.

Yeah, but don't forget that the CPU goes heavily underused on most Linux
deployments, so CPU loading from ATA isn't really the issue that you
might think.  The exception is during RAID restriping (rebuild)
operations, where (e.g.) SATA-based RAID5 arrays tend to have pretty
impaired performance and heavy loading until the rebuild completes. 
That's part of the downside of the money savings.

> By the way, SCSI is still expensive. 

More so all the time.  It's apparently largely a market effect,
resulting from relative production volumes, and market positioning of
SCSI/SAS equipment as "specialty gear", more than previously.  Which 
in turn artificially bumps the prices and widens that gap.

But, if you run Oracle, or it's your corporate NFS farm, that's what you
buy, because as expensive as the gear is, losing your data to metadata
scrambling when a SATA RAID array freezes up is _mondo_ expensive.

> So, how much are you willing to pay for a "smoking" system?

As stated, the actual intended comparison was _the same_ total cost for
the server-balanced system versus the gamer-type one.  

I'm certainly not sure, in 2006, that the former sort of machine would most
reasonably _be_ SCSI-based.  If you could live with the aforementioned
extra risk of data lossage in the event of array failure, the machine
might be based on a Tekram SATA card using an Areca chip (cheap!), or
maybe even just the Intel ICH7R or SiI 3112/3114 motherboard-embedded SATA
that you get bundled into many commodity systems, these days.  And a
pair of good HDs doing RAID1, maybe WD Raptors.  More at:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html

But one thing's for damned sure:  It would have immensely better and
faster mass storage than a typical gaming box.  And less wasted money on
overblown CPU and video.





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Jan  3 20:56:32 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:56:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104045632.GP2501@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> What program, bundled with SuSE 9.3, disallows non-for-profit copying
> and dissemination?

RealPlayer
Adobe Acrobat
Moneyplex (note: is in German language, only)
Opera Web Browser

...and others (this being Professional Edition).  See:
http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2005-April/001080.html

> Not allowing customers to benchmark a software product is illegal and
> unenforceable.

Citation, please?  (I'm not doubting your word; I just don't know the
caselaw.




From jim at well.com  Wed Jan  4 08:35:57 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:35:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo>
References: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo>
Message-ID: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple:
a site-specific chat facility. I love simple.
    My first wrinkle was not knowing how
gracefully to exit. I just closed the browser
session after noticing the record shows
other users have timed out--I guess my
user will time out, too.
    My second wrinkle is wondering how a
site manager might get notification when
users initiate a session: I'm thinking the
chat facility would be useful for user
support: e.g. i love sitting around doing
little dink stuff, and if someone connected
to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for
questions, if only i know that someone's
joined.
    Third wrinkle: how to set it up so that
there's an "admin not available" sign.
    Fourth wrinkle: find a chatbot that always
lives on the site and can provide some
conversation, possibly answer questions.


On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:41 PM, David Sterry wrote:

> You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another
> guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that
> works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. 
> You
> can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at
> http://www.sterryit.com/chatr
>
> It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated.
>
> David Sterry, MCSE
> Tel 650-773-5942
> Fax 650-523-8634
> David at SterryIT.com
> http://www.SterryIT.com
> 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200
> Redwood City, CA  94063
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject)
>
> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):
>
>> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com.
>> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this
>> world?
>>
>> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/
>
> Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can
> hear a
> lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on 
> Rails.
> (See below.)  AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well
> as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google
> Maps).
> Of possible related interest:
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
>
>
>
>  Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800
>  From: Augie Schwer <augie at nblug.org>
>  Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group
>  To: announce at nblug.org
>  Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails
>
> Hello NBLUG'ers,
>
> This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and
> very popular Ruby on Rails development framework.
>
> Description:
>
> "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for
> programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write
> beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.
>
> Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web
> application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of 
> the
> best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how
> it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun."
>
> Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm
> End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm
> Location:
> O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA
> http://nblug.org/genloc
>
> We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know
> would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please
> send an e-mail to speakers at nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward
> to seeing you all there at the next meeting.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 10:44:37 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:44:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi David,
  Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. 

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
  
I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple:
a site-specific chat facility. I love simple.
My first wrinkle was not knowing how
gracefully to exit. I just closed the browser
session after noticing the record shows
other users have timed out--I guess my
user will time out, too.
My second wrinkle is wondering how a
site manager might get notification when
users initiate a session: I'm thinking the
chat facility would be useful for user
support: e.g. i love sitting around doing
little dink stuff, and if someone connected
to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for
questions, if only i know that someone's
joined.
Third wrinkle: how to set it up so that
there's an "admin not available" sign.
Fourth wrinkle: find a chatbot that always
lives on the site and can provide some
conversation, possibly answer questions.


On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:41 PM, David Sterry wrote:

> You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another
> guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that
> works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. 
> You
> can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at
> http://www.sterryit.com/chatr
>
> It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated.
>
> David Sterry, MCSE
> Tel 650-773-5942
> Fax 650-523-8634
> David at SterryIT.com
> http://www.SterryIT.com
> 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200
> Redwood City, CA 94063
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
> [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject)
>
> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):
>
>> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com.
>> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this
>> world?
>>
>> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/
>
> Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can
> hear a
> lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on 
> Rails.
> (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well
> as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google
> Maps).
> Of possible related interest:
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800
> From: Augie Schwer 
> Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group
> To: announce at nblug.org
> Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails
>
> Hello NBLUG'ers,
>
> This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and
> very popular Ruby on Rails development framework.
>
> Description:
>
> "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for
> programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write
> beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.
>
> Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web
> application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of 
> the
> best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how
> it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun."
>
> Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm
> End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm
> Location:
> O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA
> http://nblug.org/genloc
>
> We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know
> would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please
> send an e-mail to speakers at nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward
> to seeing you all there at the next meeting.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
  



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060104/f824bdab/attachment.html>

From nbs at sonic.net  Wed Jan  4 10:51:26 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:51:26 -0800
Subject: AJAX Chat app (was re: [sf-lug] (no subject))
In-Reply-To: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104185126.GB12246@sonic.net>

(Subject lines are always useful ;^) )

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple:
> a site-specific chat facility.
<snip>
> love sitting around doing little dink stuff, and if someone connected
> to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for questions, if only i
> know that someone's joined.

Heh, I just sit around the #lugod and #svlug IRC channels (amongst a dozen
or so others). :)  (See: http://www.lugod.org/irc  for example, and
http://www.freenode.net/ , generally)


-- 
-bill!
bill at newbreedsoftware.com
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/



From jim at well.com  Wed Jan  4 11:19:15 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:19:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: sflug extra meeting about hardware 
Message-ID: <FE904569-7D56-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


I got time this Monday or Tuesday morning from
9:00 AM (or so) till just before noon. Anybody
interested? my machines are in a bedroom
very near ocean beach in SF. I can go elsewhere
to your machines (whoever and where ever).
We got coffee, tea, and water at my house.

>   Jim- lots of questions about linux support, esp concerning 
> motherboards at the moment. CPUs as well. Have been to Actnet and 
> Central Computers
> with mixed results. Am currently trying to get anwers via the 
> internet...
> Also would like to talk about monitors, video+sound cards, and 
> appropriate power supply level.  I'll let you choose what a.m. to set 
> this up, as I can free myself for any Mon.-Thu. morning. 9 or 10 am 
> would work out great, but open to other times. thanks!
>     Jeff Gibson




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan  4 11:34:50 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:34:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104193450.GY2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Hi David,
>   Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. 

For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of
Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding.  

David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function
getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is.  You might want to 
provide one:  There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible
variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you
can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your
isFirefox test assumes.

Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just
to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to
browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to
"W3C standards are important.  Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent
already."

(There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a
specific statement to webmasters and site managers.  See:
http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString )




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 11:51:15 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:51:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20060104193450.GY2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060104195115.96462.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a little programming phobic. Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at something that works, and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the beauty of minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that a real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp of the English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has he accomplished either? 

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:  Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Hi David,
> Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. 

For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of
Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding. 

David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function
getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to 
provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible
variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you
can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your
isFirefox test assumes.

Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just
to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to
browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to
"W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent
already."

(There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a
specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See:
http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString )


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060104/514cd7c7/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan  4 14:14:16 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:14:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies]
In-Reply-To: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100. 

So, I checked:
http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html

For a pair of 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMMs, 2 x $68 = $136 (plus tax).
(Higher density isn't supported.)

The N440BX specs say that "Only ECC (72-bit) DIMMs are specified for use
in the N440BX Server system" (either registered or unbuffered, the
latter saving a clock cycle).

That's about a month worth of lunches at Quiznos.  Fond as I am of
old unca' Enzo, those sandwiches are a better deal.  ;->




From david at sterryit.com  Wed Jan  4 15:48:24 2006
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:48:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20060104195115.96462.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <001501c61189$5a3fa4f0$6301a8c0@Diablo>

Thanks guys for your comments. 
 
Rick's comments on getElement(id): I've not done much in the way of
modifying the javascript client since I found it. I set it to throttle
back requests if the user is idling for 2 mins or more, but haven't
looked at cross-browser compatibility. That's a good catch though I'll
try to address that next release.
 
Jim's comment on graceful exit: I want to look at how blogger asks you
if you're sure you want to leave when you're editing a new blog post
because it's that kind of thing that could help me get real-time exit
messages from the client. For now, timing out is how it's done.
 
Jim's comment on notifying admins when people come in the room: This
could be a simple as adding a little email sending code to chat.php when
a user first enters. Otherwise, the file status.php is meant to be php
or shtml included in a page. It is meant to be included on the homepage
of a site, shows how many people are in the room and is linked to the
login page.
 
Jim's comment on admin not available sign: This set of scripts is sorely
lacking admin functionality short of directly editing the txt files that
store the chat text, pings and user data. I've not seen too much abuse
so I've not worked on that. The original guy did some of that in asp.net
because he was dugg and had some nare-do-wells get in there are start
messing with the server. There probably should be a way to designate an
admin username and not allow anybody to use that name unless they know a
password. Then if admin's not logged in, an admin not available message
could be added to the userlist.
 
Jim's comment on the chatbot: Personally I want a chatbot gameshow host
that directs 8 users to play a game of chat survivor against one
another. 8 users, 3 chatrooms, 1 hour..1 survivor!
 
-Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
[mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of vincent polite
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:51 AM
To: Rick Moen; sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject)
 
Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a little programming phobic.
Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at something that works,
and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the beauty of
minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A
lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that
a real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp
of the English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has
he accomplished either? 

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: 
Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Hi David,
> Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project
I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money
coming from it, you'd get apart of. 

For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo
of
Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding. 

David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function
getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to 
provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible
variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and
you
can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your
isFirefox test assumes.

Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just
to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to
browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to
"W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent
already."

(There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a
specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See:
http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString )


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
 


Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060104/bc8631f9/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 20:38:47 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:38:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


But one thing's for damned sure:  It would have immensely better and
faster mass storage than a typical gaming box.  And less wasted money on overblown CPU and video.

CPU and video is precisely what the gamers need, ergo they want it. They understand the concept of balanced systems. They build systems to optimize game playing, nothing wrong with that.

- Adrien



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060104/79ddd7ec/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan  4 20:47:33 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:47:33 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060105044733.GX7847@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> CPU and video is precisely what the gamers need, ergo they want it.
> They understand the concept of balanced systems. They build systems to
> optimize game playing, nothing wrong with that.

Indeed, not at all.  My remarks about "wastage" didn't concern gamers' usage
model, but rather, in contrast, the general run of non-gamer scenarios
-- for which a very different balance permits best use of one's dollar.
Apologies if I was unclear.




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  4 20:48:21 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:48:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies]
In-Reply-To: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Why do you need a pair? Wouldn't one DIMM suffice, added to the current configuration? Those systems don't require matched pairs of RAM.



Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100. 

So, I checked:
http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html

For a pair of 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMMs, 2 x $68 = $136 (plus tax).
(Higher density isn't supported.)

The N440BX specs say that "Only ECC (72-bit) DIMMs are specified for use
in the N440BX Server system" (either registered or unbuffered, the
latter saving a clock cycle).

That's about a month worth of lunches at Quiznos.  Fond as I am of
old unca' Enzo, those sandwiches are a better deal.  ;->


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060104/1a30d866/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan  4 21:20:34 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:20:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies]
In-Reply-To: <20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060105052034.GZ7847@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Why do you need a pair?

Who said I "needed a pair"?

> Those systems don't require matched pairs of RAM.

Who claimed they "require matched pairs"?

> Wouldn't one DIMM suffice, added to the current configuration? 

"Suffice" if I just wanted to add 256MB or less, sure.  But that seems
hardly worth the trouble.  Since you asked, though:

http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html has:

64MB PC-100 ECC DIMM, $17
128MB PC-100 ECC DIMM $37
256MB PC-100 ECC DIMM $68 (as mentioned earlier)

As mentioned in my earlier post, higher density (than 256MB per stick)
isn't supported, which is why the only way you can add 512MB is with
some combination of smaller sticks.  (Thus the pair cited in my earlier
example.)

Any way you slice it, it's a lot of sandwiches versus very little system
benefit.




From jim at well.com  Thu Jan  5 08:19:26 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:19:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06
Message-ID: <0A693854-7E07-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>

The forwarded email below includes a list of
significant linux developments expected in
2006, including notably (to me):
* XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5
* PalmSource Linux offering
* Open Source Development Lab's Project
...Portland (targets the desktop)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5
* IBM's continued promotion of Open Data
...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "NW on Linux" <Linux at nwfnews.com>
> Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: Linux happenings in '06
> Reply-To: Linux Help <NWReplies at bellevue.com>
>
> NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX
> 01/02/06
> Today's focus:  Linux happenings in '06
>
> Dear jim at well.com,
>
> In this issue:
>
> * Plan your year around Linux
> * Links related to Linux
> * Featured reader resource
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961
> _______________________________________________________________
> NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS
>
> NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network
> projects.  Companies who have projects so stellar they are
> examples for all.  Read about the winners by technology and by
> industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology,
> and how smart use of technology is smart business.  Click here
> to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue:
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Today's focus:  Linux happenings in '06
>
> By Phil Hochmuth
>
> As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with
> the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective
> disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward
> to this year.
>
> Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006.
>
> February
>
> Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an
> upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code
> will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more
> to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security
> package and a LDAP directory administration tool.
>
> March
>
> Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES)
> released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt
> Lake City. Improved system management features, and server
> virtualization management.
>
> April
>
> LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in
> Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show,
> running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well -
> the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.
>
> May/June
>
> Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the
> end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give
> Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options
> as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing.
>
> June/July
>
> The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first
> release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the
> summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application
> criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from
> Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE,
> Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others.
>
> August
>
> LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone
> Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from
> Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise
> Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating
> system kernels.
>
> September/October
>
> Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the
> beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen
> virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless
> Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop
> client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server.
>
> November/December
>
> IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data
> Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents
> created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use
> a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to
> be viewed by users who do not have the originating software.
>
> The top 10 most-read stories of 2005
>
> 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14269>
> 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14270>
> 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14271>
> 4. This net screams
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14272>
> 5. Networking skills are still hot
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14274>
> 6. The 2005 salary survey
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14275>
> 7. Cracking the wireless security code
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14281>
> 8. 10 ways to stop spyware
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14284>
> 9. VoIP analysis tools tested
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14285>
> 10. Shattered Mac illusions
> <http://www.networkworld.com/nlnetflash14288>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> To contact: Phil Hochmuth
>
> Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former
> systems integrator. You can reach him at
> <mailto:phochmut at nww.com>.
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960
> _______________________________________________________________
> ARCHIVE LINKS
>
> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net,
> updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html
> Archive of the Linux newsletter:
> http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world.
>
> Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed
> across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN
> performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their
> own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster
> :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less
> than two months.
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724
> _______________________________________________________________
> FEATURED READER RESOURCE
>
> WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK?
>
> You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors'
> home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices &
> security solutions and stay current on home network fun -
> streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting
> Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge
> webzine today:
>
> <http://www.networkworld.com/netlife/reg.do?v=a&k= NLMNL1>
> _______________________________________________________________
> May We Send You a Free Print Subscription?
> You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered
> at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by
> receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply
> today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2
>
> International subscribers click here:
> http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail
> newsletters, go to:
> <http://www.subscribenw.com/nl/login.jsp>
>
> To change your e-mail address, go to:
> <http://www.subscribenw.com/nl/eclogin.jsp>
>
> Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to
> this message.
>
> This message was sent to: jim at well.com
> Please use this address when modifying your subscription.
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor,
> at: <mailto:jcaruso at nww.com>
>
> Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118
> Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772
>
> For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate
> Publisher Online, at: <mailto:sponsorships at nwfusion.com>
>
> Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 9749 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060105/04c3a506/attachment.bin>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 11:12:27 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:12:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert
Message-ID: <20060105191227.25933.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com>

  Hi all,
  I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new.
   
  Thanks



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060105/9c1860db/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 11:17:11 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:17:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2
Message-ID: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>

  Hi all,
  I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi at cooley.com. My faux pax...Or whatever you are supposed to say...
  I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new.
   
  Thanks



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060105/d4c27583/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Jan  5 11:56:42 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:56:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2
In-Reply-To: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi at cooley.com. My faux
> pas...Or whatever you are supposed to say...

Not a problem, but the best way for this to proceed would be for Mark to
join this mailing list.  Otherwise, either everyone has to manually Cc
him on all postings, or someone has to forward the traffic -- and any
postings Mark tries to send to the mailing list will get held for
moderator approval by Jim (as being from a non-subscribed address).

> I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist
> is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't
> pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH
> 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the
> a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make
> sense? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something
> new.

Clear as mud to _me_, at least, I'm afraid.

I know DNS, and I know Red Hattish systems (albeit I'm a little rusty), 
and I know most varieties of Linux RAID (there are many, some hardware
based, some software done entirely with the Linux "md" = multi device
driver, and some BIOS-assisted "fakeraid") -- but I have no idea what
the "a" file is, in this context.

By the way, I would heavily discourage RH9, and lightly discourage
Fedora Core 3, for this purpose.  There are much better choices of the
RH-ish persuasion, if one leans that way:

o  RH9:  Support/updates ceased on 2004-04-30.  In theory, you can still
         get some updates from the Fedora Legacy project, but their
         coverage has been spotty and unreliable.
o  FC3:  Released 2004-11-08, and scheduled to be transferred to 
         Fedora Legacy project in mid-January.  (See comments above.)
         Also, FC3 had significant SELinux problems that were fixed 
         only with the FC4 redesign.

Mark could certainly use FC4 -- which is functional if a bit aggressive
in pushing technological progress (beta-ish), bearing in mind that it's
a test platform and has a rapid end-of-life schedule.  (FC5 is planned
to out in March.)

I would urge Mark to also consider CentOS, which is Red Hat Enterprise 
Linux in all but name, community-recompiled and supported.  There are
both RHEL 3.0 and 4.0 variants.  http://www.centos.org/

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta



From jim at well.com  Fri Jan  6 02:11:05 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 02:11:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2
In-Reply-To: <20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <BF925CB1-7E9C-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    I'd like to second Rick's suggestion re CentOS.
    If Mark is getting messages asking for floppy
disks, he's using old software, either RH9 or
something he's downloaded. There's no relation
between floppy and RAID at install time, other
than maybe some RAID tools are in some RPM
that's expected from a floppy drive.
    CentOS is a few bucks from either Spidertools
or CheapBytes and is robust.
    Fedora is cutting edge and without guarantees;
a good choice to get a look at possibilities in the
next RHEL release (RHEL 5 is coming in summer
2006), but not my choice for a server machine.
    With CentOS 4 (did I mention CentOS?) you get
easy-to-use RAID and LVM tools: "it just works".


On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):
>
>> I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi at cooley.com. My faux
>> pas...Or whatever you are supposed to say...
>
> Not a problem, but the best way for this to proceed would be for Mark 
> to
> join this mailing list.  Otherwise, either everyone has to manually Cc
> him on all postings, or someone has to forward the traffic -- and any
> postings Mark tries to send to the mailing list will get held for
> moderator approval by Jim (as being from a non-subscribed address).
>
>> I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist
>> is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't
>> pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH
>> 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the
>> a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make
>> sense? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something
>> new.
>
> Clear as mud to _me_, at least, I'm afraid.
>
> I know DNS, and I know Red Hattish systems (albeit I'm a little rusty),
> and I know most varieties of Linux RAID (there are many, some hardware
> based, some software done entirely with the Linux "md" = multi device
> driver, and some BIOS-assisted "fakeraid") -- but I have no idea what
> the "a" file is, in this context.
>
> By the way, I would heavily discourage RH9, and lightly discourage
> Fedora Core 3, for this purpose.  There are much better choices of the
> RH-ish persuasion, if one leans that way:
>
> o  RH9:  Support/updates ceased on 2004-04-30.  In theory, you can 
> still
>          get some updates from the Fedora Legacy project, but their
>          coverage has been spotty and unreliable.
> o  FC3:  Released 2004-11-08, and scheduled to be transferred to
>          Fedora Legacy project in mid-January.  (See comments above.)
>          Also, FC3 had significant SELinux problems that were fixed
>          only with the FC4 redesign.
>
> Mark could certainly use FC4 -- which is functional if a bit aggressive
> in pushing technological progress (beta-ish), bearing in mind that it's
> a test platform and has a rapid end-of-life schedule.  (FC5 is planned
> to out in March.)
>
> I would urge Mark to also consider CentOS, which is Red Hat Enterprise
> Linux in all but name, community-recompiled and supported.  There are
> both RHEL 3.0 and 4.0 variants.  http://www.centos.org/
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
> rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  6 18:50:29 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:50:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Fwd: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060107025029.67239.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ah, didn't mean to take the thread private, was very tired that night.



Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:28:55 -0800
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
To: Adrien Lamothe <alamozzz at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.

 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> I'd like to see Real Networks, Adobe, et. al, actually try to sue
> someone for giving away programs that are freely available to anyone
> over the internet; that would be an entertaining case.

You can set up a test case, easily enough:  Just post a public copy of
Acrobat Reader on a Web site of yours, and then drop Adobe's lawyers a
note furnishing the URL, saying you'll be operating that as an
unauthorised download site, and daring them to try to stop you.

They of course _can_:  Among the rights reserved by default to copyright
owners is the right of distribution, and thus the right to offer the
work only from authorised sites, or not at all.  That's why _granting_
the public the right of redistribution requires a specific licence grant
to that effect, and why there is no such right without such a grant.

> Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit
> brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product. 

Huh?  

I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a
product EULA is illegal and unenforceable.  I therefore would like to
see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't
find any.  You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was 
ask you to cite that reason.


(I note that you dropped offlist into private e-mail.   Therefore, to
avoid violating your privacy, I am continuing in the same medium, even
though I actually strongly prefer for public threads to remain in
public, unless someone has mentioned a compelling reason for privacy.)




		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060106/a14d4b51/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  6 19:40:38 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:40:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 >> Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit
>> brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product.

>Huh? 

>I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a
>product EULA is illegal and unenforceable.  I therefore would like to
>see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't
>find any.  You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was
>ask you to cite that reason.

You won't find any statute that says "it is O.K. to benchmark software you have purchased." Let's say I buy some milk at a grocery store, and they make me sign an agreement to the effect that I will not tell other people my opinion of the milk, and also not to send a sample of that milk to a laboratory for analysis. I won't find any statutes that tell me it is O.K. to critique the milk or have it analyzed, because I'm free to do just about anything with the milk, I own it. If the grocery store wants to try enforcing that agreement, good luck to them, they'll get laughed out of court. The Novell situation is identical. Automotive magazines borrow or buy cars so they can test and benchmark them. Reviewers benchmark computer hardware and software almost daily, and publish the results. Benchmarking a product you own is legal, period.

While on the subject, this is a good time to mention those mysterious gremlins known as "market forces." By affixing such an onerous condition to their license agreement, Novell will cause users to really question what is going on, and leave a negative impression. Negative impressions can contribute to people taking their business elsewhere. Closely related is the concept of "good will," something most business people don't understand these days (I've been told there was a time when "good will" was valued by businesses, but that may be a myth, related to the myth of the "good old days.") In the open-source software business, I think "good will" is a very important concept, and those who ignore it tend to get left behind (think XFree86, etc.)

- Adrien



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060106/456ee6cb/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jan  6 22:18:49 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:18:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> >I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a
> >product EULA is illegal and unenforceable.  I therefore would like to
> >see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't
> >find any.  You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was
> >ask you to cite that reason.
> 
> You won't find any statute that says "it is O.K. to benchmark software 
> you have purchased." 

I was hoping you were aware of a civil judgement (in a lawsuit) where a
company had attempted to enforce such a provision, asserting the tort of
contract breach, but then lost, through some judge declaring them
"illegal and unenforceable".

> Let's say I buy some milk at a grocery store, and they make me sign an
> agreement to the effect that I will not tell other people my opinion of
> the milk, and also not to send a sample of that milk to a laboratory for
> analysis. I won't find any statutes that tell me it is O.K. to critique
> the milk or have it analyzed, because I'm free to do just about anything
> with the milk, I own it.

Much as you indeed own that milk, there are hundred of years of
precedent for attaching strings to contracts:  As long as the subject
matter of the contract is not itself illegal[1], the courts have allowed
competent adults[2] to sign away almost all rights, if they're reckless
and don't carefully watch what they agree to.[3]

> If the grocery store wants to try enforcing that agreement, good luck
> to them, they'll get laughed out of court. The Novell situation is
> identical.

What I know of business law, this claim is mistaken.  People sign
contract that limit the scope of their right to speak, all the time, 
e.g., contracts pursuant to employment.  Even my contracting work
entails implied covenants of good-faith and fair dealing, according to
which I must act to protect my clients' interests.  I could get sued for 
torts if I were to violate those covenants by blabbing about them in 
public.

Therefore (although I'm certainly not a lawyer, and therefore cannot and
do not advise people on their particular legal situations), I always 
advise people in _general terms_ to pay really close attention to what
contracts they agree to, and assume they're to be taken seriously except
where you know they're toothless for some external reason.

> Automotive magazines borrow or buy cars so they can test and benchmark
> them. Reviewers benchmark computer hardware and software almost daily,
> and publish the results. Benchmarking a product you own is legal,
> period.

Again, I know of no reason to think this is true, and plenty to think
otherwise.  It it _were_ true, I expect I'd have found caselaw to that 
effect, and I found none.

> While on the subject, this is a good time to mention those mysterious
> gremlins known as "market forces." By affixing such an onerous
> condition to their license agreement, Novell will cause users to
> really question what is going on, and leave a negative impression.

I certainly hope so.  Licence terms purporting to ban benchmarking are 
evil, and really should not be put up with.


[1] For example, no contract terms you sign, in an otherwise valid
contract, can be forced against you to sell yourself into slavery, or 
to perform any other illegal act.  For example, in California contracts 
that purport to bar you from your own trade or profession (non-competes)
are completely unenforceable by statute, as are proprietary invention
agreements to the extent of whatever you create with your own resources
on your own time.  Although very common, those agreements are deceptive.
And yes, I _can_ give you citations of the relevant code sections.

[2] Popular misconceptions to the contrary notwithstanding, minors _are_
allowed to enter into contracts, but can elect to unilaterally void any
such contracts, if they wish, immediately upon reaching the age of
majority.  One exception is contracts concerning real estate, which 
are enforceable even against minors.

[3] There are a few safeguards in particular special areas, such as the 
statutory "cooling off period" following purchase of an automobile,
during which you can rescind your acceptance of the sales offer.





From jim at well.com  Sat Jan  7 09:03:16 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:03:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: January 12, 7:30pm (Google)
Message-ID: <7EEB8CC3-7F9F-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Interested in the Python programming language?
This coming meeting, Thursday 1/12 7:30 PM at
Google's campus, is for newbies. Marilyn Davis
is an experienced instructor presenting a summary
of Python's benefits. After her presentation there'll
be a newbie question and answer period. I'm going.
If you want a ride to and from SF, let me know (I'm
willing, within SF city, to drop you off at your home).
jim

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com>
> Date: January 7, 2006 7:54:08 AM PST
> To: baypiggies at python.org
> Cc: Python-List <python-list at python.org>, python-announce at python.org
> Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: January 12, 7:30pm (Google)
>
> The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, January 12 at 7:30pm at
> Google, room Tunis.  Meet in the lobby of building 43.
>
> This will be a combo meeting:
>
> * First Marilyn Davis will practice her "Why Python?" talk -- she's
> looking for feedback and suggestions on improving it.
>
> * We'll fill the rest of the time with a "Newbies Night"; this is your
> opportunity to get realtime responses to questions about Python
>
>
> BayPIGgies meetings alternate between IronPort (San Bruno, California)
> and Google (Mountain View, California).  For more information and
> directions, see http://baypiggies.net/
>
>
> Before the meeting, we sometimes meet at 6pm for dinner.  Discussion of
> dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list.
>
> Advance notice:  We need speakers for February and later; the February
> meeting is currently reserved for PyCon speakers wanting practice, and
> the March meeting will probably be a PyCon wrap-up.  Please e-mail
> baypiggies at python.org if you want to suggest an agenda (or volunteer to
> give a presentation).
> -- 
> Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         
> http://www.pythoncraft.com/
>
> "19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about 
> programming,
> is not worth knowing."  --Alan Perlis
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2391 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060107/75ae4496/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Mon Jan  9 08:16:48 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:16:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meeting tonight at javacat 
Message-ID: <56070D7A-812B-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Monday, January 16, at the Javacat on
Geary at 20th, from 6:00 till 8:00 PM
(or so).
hope to see you,
jim




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  9 21:22:30 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:22:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

>Much as you indeed own that milk, there are hundred of years of
>precedent for attaching strings to contracts:  As long as the subject
>matter of the contract is not itself illegal[1], the courts have allowed
>competent adults[2] to sign away almost all rights, if they're reckless
>and don't carefully watch what they agree to.[3]

Actually, just the opposite usually happens. Courts will not allow people
to sign away their rights. That is why most contracts contain what is
called a "severability" clause. A severability clause states to the effect
that "in the event any portion of this contract is deemed illegal, void or
unenforceable, such judgement does not effect the remaining portions
of this contract, and such portions remain in full effect."

Of course, in uncertain cases (grey areas) it all comes down to the judge and 
whatever personal bias the judge has (and can get away with while 
appearing to be impartial.)

One of the basic principles of contract law is to write a contract that is
as outrageous as possible, claiming rights beyond what is legal or
reasonable, the rationale being that by exceeding the limits you will
therefore be fully protected up to the limits allowed by law.

- Adrien



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
 Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060109/85970264/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Jan  9 21:41:36 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:41:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Actually, just the opposite usually happens. Courts will not allow people
> to sign away their rights. That is why most contracts contain what is
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^
> called a "severability" clause. 

Whoa, there.  Not so fast, pard'.  Your fallacy lies in the underlined
text, examined below.

> A severability clause states to the effect that "in the event any
> portion of this contract is deemed illegal, void or unenforceable,
> such judgement does not effect the remaining portions of this
> contract, and such portions remain in full effect."

Contracts _do_ indeed tend to have severability clauses, but it's NOT
because the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights:  It's 
so that, if any clause, for any reason, gets voided (e.g., patent
violation, violation of state regulations and statutes, etc.), it's
nonetheless likely the court will allow the others to still be enforced
-- by signalling _to_ the court that the parties thus intend and wish.

> One of the basic principles of contract law is to write a contract
> that is as outrageous as possible, claiming rights beyond what is
> legal or reasonable, the rationale being that by exceeding the limits
> you will therefore be fully protected up to the limits allowed by law.

That is (all too often) true.  But what is _not_ true is your original
claim that disallowing benchmarking via a product licence is illegal and
unenforceable -- nor your current, broader claim that the courts don't
allow people to sign away their rights.  You have talked around those
claims, and cited legal mechanisms that aren't actually relevant to them,
but you have not supported them.

In fact -- since you mention it -- ANY contract you sign, by definition
of the term "contract", inherently gives up (signs away) some right you
already had going in.  (Note that property, be it tangible, abstract,
real estate, or other, _is_ a bundle of rights.)  That deliberate
foregoing of just rights that you already have in hand is what
constitutes the required element of "consideration", without which no
contract can ever be formed in the first place.

In case anyone is curious, and with the previously cited proviso that
IANAL, here are some old notes from business law class:

"Contract Elements" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law/





From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 10:16:27 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:16:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Quoting Rick Moen:

>Again, I know of no reason to think this is true, and plenty to think
>otherwise.  It it _were_ true, I expect I'd have found caselaw to that 
>effect, and I found none.

Not finding any case law is a good indication those types of clauses
are not enforceable, else there would surely be case law on the subject.

But the actual legal ramifications of Novell's license (which neither of us
really understands in purely legal terms) are not as important as the 
business effect such licensing will have on Novell. Draconian licensing
will alienate their customers, many of whom are likely looking to the
exits anyway in light of recent "developments" at Novell.

- Adrien


			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060111/1e8a6947/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 10:59:18 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:59:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Quoting Rick Moen (rick at linuxmafia.com):

>Contracts _do_ indeed tend to have severability clauses, but it's NOT
>because the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights:  It's 
>so that, if any clause, for any reason, gets voided (e.g., patent
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>violation, violation of state regulations and statutes, etc.), it's
>nonetheless likely the court will allow the others to still be enforced
>-- by signalling _to_ the court that the parties thus intend and wish.

Including the reason that the clause is illegal. We agree on this point.


>That is (all too often) true.  But what is _not_ true is your original
>claim that disallowing benchmarking via a product licence is illegal and
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>unenforceable -- nor your current, broader claim that the courts don't
>allow people to sign away their rights.  You have talked around those
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>claims, and cited legal mechanisms that aren't actually relevant to 
>them, but you have not supported them.

A contract is indeed an instrument that, in some instances, requires one
or more parties to sign away rights. When it comes to purchasing a product,
one right that a court is almost certain not to violate is a consumer's
right to enjoy use of the product in a manner consistent with normal useage.
In the world of computer operating systems, it is normal, and expected, for
a consumer to benchmark the operating system. Benchmarking the operating
system, especially for execution of software important to the customer,
is part of the normal operational procedure inherent in normal useage of
the product.

The only apparent reason a software manufacturer would not want a customer
to benchmark an operating system, is fear of competition. I'm sorry, but
fear of competition just doesn't cut the mustard in a court of law, especially
when it infringes on a customer's right to normal useage of their property.

I haven't "talked around" anything, apparently you just haven't considered
what has been said. That's O.K., it happens.


>In fact -- since you mention it -- ANY contract you sign, by definition
>of the term "contract", inherently gives up (signs away) some right you
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>already had going in.  (Note that property, be it tangible, abstract,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>real estate, or other, _is_ a bundle of rights.)  That deliberate
>foregoing of just rights that you already have in hand is what
>constitutes the required element of "consideration", without which no
>contract can ever be formed in the first place.

Untrue.


Cheers,

Adrien

"I'm not O.K., you're not O.K., but that's O.K."




			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060111/1b825c6a/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 12:11:41 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:11:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06
In-Reply-To: <0A693854-7E07-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Jim,

Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful. Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have liked to.

Adrien


jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote: The forwarded email below includes a list of
significant linux developments expected in
2006, including notably (to me):
* XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5
* PalmSource Linux offering
* Open Source Development Lab's Project
...Portland (targets the desktop)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5
* IBM's continued promotion of Open Data
...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "NW on Linux" 

> Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: Linux happenings in '06
> Reply-To: Linux Help 
>
> NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX
> 01/02/06
> Today's focus:  Linux happenings in '06
>
> Dear jim at well.com,
>
> In this issue:
>
> * Plan your year around Linux
> * Links related to Linux
> * Featured reader resource
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961
> _______________________________________________________________
> NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS
>
> NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network
> projects.  Companies who have projects so stellar they are
> examples for all.  Read about the winners by technology and by
> industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology,
> and how smart use of technology is smart business.  Click here
> to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue:
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Today's focus:  Linux happenings in '06
>
> By Phil Hochmuth
>
> As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with
> the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective
> disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward
> to this year.
>
> Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006.
>
> February
>
> Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an
> upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code
> will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more
> to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security
> package and a LDAP directory administration tool.
>
> March
>
> Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES)
> released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt
> Lake City. Improved system management features, and server
> virtualization management.
>
> April
>
> LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in
> Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show,
> running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well -
> the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.
>
> May/June
>
> Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the
> end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give
> Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options
> as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing.
>
> June/July
>
> The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first
> release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the
> summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application
> criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from
> Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE,
> Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others.
>
> August
>
> LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone
> Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from
> Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise
> Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating
> system kernels.
>
> September/October
>
> Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the
> beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen
> virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless
> Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop
> client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server.
>
> November/December
>
> IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data
> Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents
> created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use
> a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to
> be viewed by users who do not have the originating software.
>
> The top 10 most-read stories of 2005
>
> 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac
> 
> 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes
> 
> 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test
> 
> 4. This net screams
> 
> 5. Networking skills are still hot
> 
> 6. The 2005 salary survey
> 
> 7. Cracking the wireless security code
> 
> 8. 10 ways to stop spyware
> 
> 9. VoIP analysis tools tested
> 
> 10. Shattered Mac illusions
> 
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> To contact: Phil Hochmuth
>
> Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former
> systems integrator. You can reach him at
> .
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960
> _______________________________________________________________
> ARCHIVE LINKS
>
> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net,
> updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html
> Archive of the Linux newsletter:
> http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world.
>
> Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed
> across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN
> performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their
> own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster
> :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less
> than two months.
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724
> _______________________________________________________________
> FEATURED READER RESOURCE
>
> WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK?
>
> You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors'
> home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices &
> security solutions and stay current on home network fun -
> streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting
> Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge
> webzine today:
>
> 
> _______________________________________________________________
> May We Send You a Free Print Subscription?
> You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered
> at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by
> receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply
> today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2
>
> International subscribers click here:
> http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail
> newsletters, go to:
> 
>
> To change your e-mail address, go to:
> 
>
> Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to
> this message.
>
> This message was sent to: jim at well.com
> Please use this address when modifying your subscription.
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor,
> at: 
>
> Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118
> Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772
>
> For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate
> Publisher Online, at: 
>
> Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
 Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060111/52f13792/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan 11 14:47:13 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:47:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Not finding any case law is a good indication those types of clauses
> are not enforceable, else there would surely be case law on the subject.

No, it's really not.

You don't find any caselaw stating that it's lawful for employers to 
demand that their employees not have conflicting personal businesses on
the side, for example, because it's a settled point of law that you can
sign away that right -- as you can practically any other -- in a
contract.  Which you may recall was my point.

> But the actual legal ramifications of Novell's license (which neither
> of us really understands in purely legal terms)....

You're welcome to speak for yourself, but I'm not only a longtime
student of business law, but also believe I know this area of it pretty
well.  In part, this was incidentally to my passing of the CPA exam in
1986, which of course doesn't require one to be a attorney but does
entail a fair knowledge of some parts relevant to business.

(Also, having front-row seats throughout my teenage years for a
negligence suit against Boeing kind of drove home the law's importance,
while also making me really determined to avoid _being_ a lawyer.  ;-> )




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Jan 11 14:53:30 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:53:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Including the reason that the clause is illegal. We agree on this point.

If it _were_ illegal, yes.  My mom's folks in Kansas used to say "If the
hoptoad had wings, it wouldn't bump it's bottom on the prairie."
(But hoptoad are wingless, that being the point.)

> A contract is indeed an instrument that, in some instances, requires one
> or more parties to sign away rights. When it comes to purchasing a product,
> one right that a court is almost certain not to violate is a consumer's
> right to enjoy use of the product in a manner consistent with normal useage.

You're welcome to support this via cites (or anything else moderately
relevant), and to establish that benchmarking is "normal usage" within
the meaning of your phrase, any year, now.

Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                            Recidite, plebes!  Gero rem Imperialem!
rick at linuxmafia.com



From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 11 20:22:23 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:22:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job Posting: Looking for GNU/Linux...Level 2 Tech
	support/ Hardware product development. System/Network Administrator/
Message-ID: <07695C62-8323-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Youhan Mubaraki <youhan at mazdatechnologies.com>
> Date: January 11, 2006 4:58:54 PM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: Job Posting: Looking for GNU/Linux...Level 2 Tech support/ 
> Hardware product development. System/Network Administrator/
>
>
> GNU/Linux System/Network Administrator/ Level 2 Tech support/ Hardware 
> product development.
>
> GNU/Linux Systems programmer
>
> GNU/Linux Kernel Hacker
>
> GNU/Linux HPC/Clustering (desirable but not necessary)
> Most important is the person's ability to do level 2 Tech support and 
> help with Product development and marketing. We are looking for a 
> candidate that is willing to talk to vendors out there, and is capable 
> of developing the latest and greatest in hardware platforms, someone 
> who can develop new technology by talking to technologist and figuring 
> out how to make it all work. He should also have the capability to 
> work on large clusters(not required but desirable & the right 
> candidate will get the opportunity to learn as well), have knowledge 
> on all types of Open Source software and applications like OSCAR and 
> ROCKS, be able load and tweak for performance optimization all flavors 
> of Free Operating systems like CentOS, Fedora, Redhat, Suse, Debian, 
> Free BSD etc. The right candidate should also have Network 
> Administration experience with Linux and have through understanding of 
> the kernel(important). Experience with Intel and AMD 64 Bit hardware 
> very important. If you don't possess a few of the knowledge 
> requirements but are willing to learn its may be OK, we are flexible 
> and we can discuss your resume.
>
> Mazda Technologies works with top tier enterprise customers and the 
> Government DOE labs, this experience could be really enhance the right 
> candidates resume. Mazda Technologies is a fun and flexible 
> environment and with the right candidate we are willing to consider a 
> candidate that wants to work part time as well.
>
> Please call me for details if you have specific questions. You can 
> email me or call me at 925 699 4700 or 510 440 8988 ext 108 if you or 
> someone you know is Interested in this position.
> Thank you
> Youhan Mubaraki
>
> Mazda Technologies
> www.mazdatechnologies.com
> 48511 Warm Springs Blvd
> STE 204
> Fremont CA 94539
>
> Tel # 510 440 8988 ext 108
> Cell # 925 699 4700
> Fax # 510 405 8988
> Toll Free 1 888 510 8988
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2579 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060111/ee1a2dee/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 11 21:39:38 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:39:38 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] An introduction to the Python programming language 
Message-ID: <D247641E-832D-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Thursday evening, January 12: Newbies Night

    If you want an introduction to the Python
programming language, Marilyn Davis'
presentation should be great--she's an
experienced developer and expert teacher.
    I'm going and I'll be glad to take you along
if you respond t this email before 8:00 AM
Thursday, 1/12 (tomorrow) to arrange where
I pick you up in SF.
    Gotta be at the Google Mountain View
campus by around 7:00 PM, back around
11:00 PM, I'll drive you to your house.
    The event is the BayPiggies Python users'
group: meet in Google Building 43 lobby and
walk to room Tech Talk 42 (TT-42) (1600
Amphitheatre Pkwy, Mountain View).




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 12 11:27:45 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:27:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>You're welcome to speak for yourself, but I'm not only a longtime
>student of business law, but also believe I know this area of it pretty
>well.  In part, this was incidentally to my passing of the CPA exam in
>1986, which of course doesn't require one to be a attorney but does
>entail a fair knowledge of some parts relevant to business.

Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. The next time I meet a
business person needing legal consultation, I'll definitely refer you.

- Adrien



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/95539e0e/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 12 11:31:59 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:31:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060112193159.34774.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:


>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien





		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/337c92ab/attachment.html>

From Ola.Peters at mscibarra.com  Thu Jan 12 11:34:35 2006
From: Ola.Peters at mscibarra.com (Peters, Ola (MSCIBARRA))
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:35 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
Message-ID: <FB3956F35FAEC24AACE51445E3F8364F4A666B@NYWEXMB84.msad.ms.com>

Would you guys mind taking this offline to a private email passing? 
 
Thanks,
 
Ola

________________________________

From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com
[mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien Lamothe
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 AM
To: Rick Moen; sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.


Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:


>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien




________________________________

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/*http://pa.yahoo.com/*ht
tp://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/photos/evt=38087/*http://pg.photos
.yahoo.com/ph//page?.file=calendar_splash.html&.dir=> . Add photos,
events, holidays, whatever.
--------------------------------------------------------

NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/93a0cdfa/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 12 11:41:22 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:41:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060112194122.11038.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:


>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien




		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
 Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/91cb3ba2/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 12 11:52:26 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:52:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <FB3956F35FAEC24AACE51445E3F8364F4A666B@NYWEXMB84.msad.ms.com>
Message-ID: <20060112195226.15320.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Given the staleness of discourse, Ola, your idea is excellent. It is safe to say we are done with the discussion.

"Peters, Ola (MSCIBARRA)" <Ola.Peters at mscibarra.com> wrote:         Would you guys mind taking this offline to a private email  passing? 
  
 Thanks,
  
 Ola

  
---------------------------------
 From: sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com  [mailto:sf-lug-bounces at linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien  Lamothe
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 AM
To: Rick  Moen; sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation  of his internet setup.


 
 Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>  wrote:


>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien




  

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo  Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
  
---------------------------------
 
 NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.
  



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/ed035034/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Jan 12 12:39:52 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:39:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. 

Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't 
speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of knowledge.  
But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of Debate
(http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1).

> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language

Without supporting it.

> ...further discussion is pointless.

OK, cool.  But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in
particular the definition of "valuable consideration".

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta



From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 12 13:21:42 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:21:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Debate, Rhetoric and Politics, the three hag sisters of those uninterested
in truth but seeking popularity.



Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. 

Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't 
speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of knowledge.  
But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of Debate
(http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1).

> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language

Without supporting it.

> ...further discussion is pointless.

OK, cool.  But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in
particular the definition of "valuable consideration".

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/8f5b5a3c/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Jan 12 13:44:23 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:44:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
In-Reply-To: <20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060112214423.GO32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> Debate, Rhetoric and Politics, the three hag sisters of those uninterested
> in truth but seeking popularity.

A neater demonstration of Moen's First Law of Debate, I have seldom seen.  
I trust this will be on my bill.  ;->




From jim at well.com  Thu Jan 12 07:35:49 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:35:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06
In-Reply-To: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Thanks for the thanks, Adrien. Come on
down to Javacat this coming Monday,
January 16 (the regular meeting, third
Monday of the month) from 6:00 till 8:00.

On Jan 11, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful. 
> Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have 
> liked to.
>
> Adrien
>
>
> jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>  The forwarded email below includes a list of
> significant linux developments expected in
> 2006, including notably (to me):
> * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5
> * PalmSource Linux offering
> * Open Source Development Lab's Project
> ...Portland (targets the desktop)
> * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5
> * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data
> ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP).
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: "NW on Linux"
>  > Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST
> > To: jim at well.com
> > Subject: Linux happenings in '06
> > Reply-To: Linux Help
>  >
> > NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX
> > 01/02/06
> > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06
> >
> > Dear jim at well.com,
> >
> > In this issue:
> >
> > * Plan your year around Linux
> > * Links related to Linux
> > * Featured reader resource
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
> >
> > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> > audience they are trying to reach. Learn! how Web-based
> > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> > Download this Network World Special Report today!
> > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS
> >
> > NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network
> > projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are
> > examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by
> > industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology,
> > and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here
> > to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue:
> > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036
> > _______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06
> >
> > By Phil Hochmuth
> >
> > As we return to! work this first week of 2006, Linux users with
> > the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective
> > disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward
> > to this year.
> >
> > Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006.
> >
> > February
> >
> > Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an
> > upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code
> > will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more
> > to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security
> > package and a LDAP directory administration tool.
> >
> > March
> >
> > Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES)
> > released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt
> > Lake City. Improved system management features, and server
> > virtualization management.
> >
> > April
> >
> > LinuxWorld Expo organizers d! ecided last year's February show in
> > Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show,
> > running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well -
> > the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.
> >
> > May/June
> >
> > Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the
> > end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give
> > Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options
> > as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing.
> >
> > June/July
> >
> > The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first
> > release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the
> > summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application
> > criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from
> > Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE,
> > Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others.
> >!  ;
> > August
> >
> > LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone
> > Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from
> > Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise
> > Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating
> > system kernels.
> >
> > September/October
> >
> > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the
> > beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen
> > virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless
> > Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop
> > client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server.
> >
> > November/December
> >
> > IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data
> > Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents
> > created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use
> > a standard, open source file form! at, allowing the documents to
> > be viewed by users who do not have the originating software.
> >
> > The top 10 most-read stories of 2005
> >
> > 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac
> >
> > 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes
> >
> > 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test
> >
> > 4. This net screams
> >
> > 5. Networking skills are still hot
> >
> > 6. The 2005 salary survey
> >
> > 7. Cracking the wireless security code
> >
> > 8. 10 ways to stop spyware
> >
> > 9. VoIP analysis tools tested
> >
> > 10. Shattered Mac illusions
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > To contact: Phil Hochmuth
> >
> > Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former
> > systems integrator. You can reach him at
> >  .
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
> >
> > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> > Download this Network World Special Report today!
> > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > ARCHIVE LINKS
> >> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net,
> > updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html
> > Archive of the Linux newsletter:
> > http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world.
> >
> > Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed
> > across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN
> > performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their
> > own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster
> > :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less
> > than two months.
> > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > FEATURED READER RESOURCE
> >
> > WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK?
> >
> > ! You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors'
> > home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices &
> > security solutions and stay current on home network fun -
> > streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting
> > Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge
> > webzine today:
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________
> > May We Send You a Free Print Subscription?
> > You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered
> > at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by
> > receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply
> > today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2
> >
> > International subscribers click here:
> > http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html
> > _______________________________________________________________> 
> SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail
> > newsletters, go to:
> >
> >
> > To change your e-mail address, go to:
> >
> >
> > Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to
> > this message.
> >
> > This message was sent to: jim at well.com
> > Please use this address when modifying your subscription.
> > _______________________________________________________________
> >
> > Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor,
> > at:
> >
> > Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118
> > Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772
> >
> > For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate
> > Publisher Online, at:
> >
> > Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
> Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind 
> it!_______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 9941 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060112/b1666eb5/attachment.bin>

From nbs at sonic.net  Thu Jan 12 17:30:41 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06
In-Reply-To: <1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060113013041.GA30984@sonic.net>

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 07:35:49AM -0800, jim stockford wrote:
>  
> Thanks for the thanks, Adrien. Come on  
> down to Javacat this coming Monday,  
> January 16 (the regular meeting, third  
> Monday of the month) from 6:00 till 8:00.  

Bah!  Just drive a few hours east to Davis for LUGOD!  We'll have _cake!_
( Seriously, though, it's our 7th anniversary ;^) 
  http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ )

-bill!



From david at sterryit.com  Fri Jan 13 00:31:39 2006
From: david at sterryit.com (David Sterry)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:31:39 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Chatr 0.5
Message-ID: <43C7656B.7070809@sterryit.com>

Hello everyone,

Just a quick note to let you know I just released version 0.5 of Chatr 
with smilies, better language support, and easier installation. You can 
check it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat

Thanks,

Dave



From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 13 10:02:24 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:02:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing
	list.
In-Reply-To: <B6AD82B1-83CE-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at 
someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
more mailing lists. This also can help reduce the amount of spam that
is received on your primary email account; spammers troll mailing lists
to "harvest" email addresses. Rick probably has more insight into this,
given how long he has maintained a mailing list. Incidentally, the volume
of messages in our discussion was actually quite low, go check out some
of the threads on the "conspire" mailing list at linuxmafia.com.

- Adrien

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote: 
    Per Ola's recent request, keep it offline, please.
we've had several people drop off the sf-lug
mailing list.
    I want to say, however, that I liked the content;
it's pretty well talked out at this point, though,
don't you think?
thanks,
jim


On Jan 12, 2006, at 12:39 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):
>
>> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep.
>
> Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't
> speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of 
> knowledge.
> But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of 
> Debate
> (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1).
>
>> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language
>
> Without supporting it.
>
>> ...further discussion is pointless.
>
> OK, cool.  But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in
> particular the definition of "valuable consideration".
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
> rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060113/6a94434e/attachment.html>

From nbs at sonic.net  Fri Jan 13 10:19:07 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing
	list.
In-Reply-To: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <B6AD82B1-83CE-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net>

On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 10:02:24AM -0800, Adrien Lamothe wrote:
> For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
> sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at 
> someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
> more mailing lists.

Personally, I use "procmail" and the "Mutt" mail client on my
Sonic.net shell account.

For example, in my ~/.procmail file, I have:

  :0
  * ^TO_(.*\<)?sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
  in-lugs

Which means anything sent directly (or in-directly) to the address
"sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" should go into my "in-lugs" mailing list.
(Which I get to in Mutt by either hitting [C] (change folder) and typing
"=in-lugs", or using the [Y] key, which calls upon some Mutt code to bring
up a list of my various procmail-constructed inboxes. [*].)

Additionally, in my ~/.mutt/muttrc file, I have the following:

  folder-hook in-lugs "bind pager 'r' list-reply"
  folder-hook in-lugs "bind index 'r' list-reply"

Which causes the [R] (reply) command to _actually_ invoke a list reply
(normally accessed via [L]).  This lets me continue my bad habit of hitting
[R] to reply to messages, but still have them go back to the list on those
lists which do not munge the Reply-To header.  (i.e., lists which, if you
merely hit "reply" in your mail client, you'll be replying directly to the
sender, rather than back to the list.)  (Note: If I _do_ want to reply
to the sender, rather than the list, I simply tell Mutt "no, I don't
want to reply to the list" ([N]) after hitting list-reply ([R] or [L])).


[*] Here's the muttrc options to activate this "[Y]ank" command, allowing me
    to see the various mailboxes I've saved, or which are cobbled together
    by procmail recipies, and that live in my ~/Mail/ directory on my
    shell account:

  # Macros: make 'y' go to mailbox screen from index and browser
  macro index "y" "c?\t"
  macro browser "y" "\t\t"

Thanks to Mike Simons for sharing that trick, and convincing me to ditch
Elm and switch to Mutt.  Only took him a coupla years, and I can't thank
him enough.  Best.  Mail User Agent.  Ever!

-- 
-bill!                          Now available!  Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
bill at newbreedsoftware.com                        bumper sticker, and apparel!
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/         http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw/



From nbs at sonic.net  Fri Jan 13 10:21:27 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:27 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing
	list.
In-Reply-To: <20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net>
References: <B6AD82B1-83CE-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20060113182127.GC27595@sonic.net>

On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 10:19:07AM -0800, Bill Kendrick wrote:
> Which means anything sent directly (or in-directly) to the address
> "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" should go into my "in-lugs" mailing list.

Err...  mail _box_ :)  (It just happens to be where I store all of the
various LUG mailing list traffic.  Well, except LUGOD.  It gets its own
box, cuz it's so special to me ;^) )

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Jan 13 10:40:40 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing
	list.
In-Reply-To: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <B6AD82B1-83CE-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060113184040.GE32275@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
> sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at 
> someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
> more mailing lists.

I just have this sort of stuff in my .procmailrc:


### LIST CATCH-ALLS

:0:
* ^X-BeenThere:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Loop:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists



### MAILMAN REMINDERS
# Happy mailman day everybody!
:0:
* ^From: .*mailman-owner@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day

:0:
* ^From: .*listmaster@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day


### Challenge/Response nagmails to be discarded un-read

:0:
* ^X-Mailer: ispworks-spammgr*
/dev/null


:0:
* ^X-AskVersion*
/dev/null
# Active Spam Killer

:0:
* ^Subject: RE: message [Qurb.*
/dev/null
# Qurb

:0:
* ^From: automated-response at earthlink.net
/dev/null
# Earthlink spamBlocker




Of course, I do the maverick thing of reading mail right on my MTA box,
but the knack should be usable for other situations, too.




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 13 10:59:19 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:59:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing
	list.
In-Reply-To: <20060113184040.GE32275@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060113185919.55636.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

That's cool, but some people may not have access to that, or are set up
differently. For example, Ola is using his work account for the list.



Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz at yahoo.com):

> For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
> sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at 
> someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
> more mailing lists.

I just have this sort of stuff in my .procmailrc:


### LIST CATCH-ALLS

:0:
* ^X-BeenThere:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Loop:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists



### MAILMAN REMINDERS
# Happy mailman day everybody!
:0:
* ^From: .*mailman-owner@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day

:0:
* ^From: .*listmaster@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day


### Challenge/Response nagmails to be discarded un-read

:0:
* ^X-Mailer: ispworks-spammgr*
/dev/null


:0:
* ^X-AskVersion*
/dev/null
# Active Spam Killer

:0:
* ^Subject: RE: message [Qurb.*
/dev/null
# Qurb

:0:
* ^From: automated-response at earthlink.net
/dev/null
# Earthlink spamBlocker




Of course, I do the maverick thing of reading mail right on my MTA box,
but the knack should be usable for other situations, too.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
 Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060113/0633e51e/attachment.html>

From joe.payne at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 13:20:58 2006
From: joe.payne at gmail.com (Joseph Payne)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:20:58 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Chatr 0.5
In-Reply-To: <002a01c61869$d59321e0$6401a8c0@337studios>
References: <43C7656B.7070809@sterryit.com>
	<002a01c61869$d59321e0$6401a8c0@337studios>
Message-ID: <25c431620601131320y4e735f93g74b5585b4dc54f54@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.  I never really noticed that Chatr didn't work in ie or opera until
I visited Damien's and he had something about that.  So I made some quick
changs to the .4 javascript file and it works in all 3 now.  I haven't
looked at .5 code yet.  You can look at the changed code here
http://zerovektor.com/chat/chatclient.js .  My Chatr is based on David's,
but coded in C, so it is missing some things.

Joe

On 1/13/06, Damien Lee Benoit <emailme at 337studios.com> wrote:
>
> Sweet, Everyone else should share links to their chat versions so we can
> pop
> in and out from time to time.
>
> Mine is at http://chatr.337studios.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Sterry [mailto:david at sterryit.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:32 AM
> To: ayhan at abkod.com; kevin at electricdiary.com; Damien Benoit; mt at hush.ai;
> Beau Hartshorne; Joseph Payne; vranganathan at gmail.com;
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Subject: Chatr 0.5
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Just a quick note to let you know I just released version 0.5 of Chatr
> with smilies, better language support, and easier installation. You can
> check it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060113/1918eda7/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sat Jan 14 08:54:01 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:54:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting at Javacat Monday 6:00 PM 
Message-ID: <5D07DC42-851E-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Here comes the third Monday of the month:
sf-lug at Javacat, on Geary at 20th, 6:00 to
8:00 (Javacat is nice and warm).




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Mon Jan 16 20:37:42 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:42 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Found a book
Message-ID: <528b20610601162037p68a4f1c4t216e7219601762de@mail.gmail.com>

There was a book left at the LUG meeting. I have it if you are missing
"Teach yourself Unix in 24 Hours" by Dave Taylor. Email me to figure out how
I am going to get it back to you.

--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060116/714ad457/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Thu Jan 19 12:20:19 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:20:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD 
In-Reply-To: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net>
References: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net>
Message-ID: <0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and
buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.

    I believe I can get this from Spidertools. You can, too,
but I buy from them regularly and now get a bit of a
discount: I can sell them to you for about the list price,
you save the shipping costs (e.g. Debian sarge is
probably $5, shipping is probably $3; I sell them to you
for my cost, which is probably $4 plus shipping which
is the fraction of $3 to $5 shipping--i.e. you get 'em for
$5 instead of $8).
    You want me to get 'em for you? Lemme know (I've
got an order in as it is). Note: I make a point of making
no profit on SpiderTools stuff
( http://www.spidertools.com ).

    (from the Debian.org web site: 'The current ?stable?
distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 3.1r1,
codenamed sarge. It was released on December
20th, 2005.')


On Jan 19, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Geoff Smith wrote:

> Hi, I've got a question for SF-LUG, although you may be able to answer 
> it yourself.? Do you know where to pick up a Debian Sarge CD in San 
> Francisco?? You'd? think there would be some technical bookstore 
> somewhere in the city that sells it but I've had no luck so far.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Geoff Smith
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1397 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060119/09dcec69/attachment.bin>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Jan 19 14:09:18 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:09:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
In-Reply-To: <0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net>
	<0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060119220917.GD30095@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

>    Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and
> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.

Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so
download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26

See also:  "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/
(page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch)

Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there
doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 CDs
or 2 DVDs.  You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be
replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway.  So, why
not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB?

(By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture:  alpha, amd64,
arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc.  amd64
was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are
official.  He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.)




From jim at well.com  Thu Jan 19 14:23:02 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
Message-ID: <2756303A-893A-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below).

(I like buying CDs rather than suffer through
downloading. For most people, I'd say
listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty
old jim.)


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST
> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
>
> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>>    Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and
>> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.
>
> Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so
> download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26
>
> See also:  "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/
> (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch)
>
> Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there
> doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 
> CDs
> or 2 DVDs.  You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be
> replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway.  So, why
> not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB?
>
> (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture:  alpha, amd64,
> arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc.  amd64
> was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are
> official.  He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1831 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060119/ee395af4/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Fri Jan 20 08:36:12 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:36:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] linux, c, apache job
Message-ID: <DE6276C8-89D2-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Kevin Pierpoint" <kevin_pierpoint at oxfordcorp.com>
> Date: January 19, 2006 6:54:11 PM PST
> To: <penlug-members at penlug.org>
> Subject: [PenLUG] linux, c, apache job
> Reply-To: Kevin Pierpoint <kevin_pierpoint at oxfordcorp.com>
>
> I have a client looking for the following:
>
> My client needs someone with experience developing apache C modules on 
> Linux. This is more of a 'systems-level' developer (i.e. not 
> application level at all). Looking for someone to push the existing 
> server to as much performance as possible. Having experience with 
> TCP/IP and HTTP protocol is required. Experience in reading and 
> understanding RFC highly desirable, but not necessarily required.
>
> This is a contract to hire situation.....
>
> Let me know if you know anyone who could do this!
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> _______________________________________
>
> Kevin D. Pierpoint Branch Manager/Technical Recruiter
>        Oxford & Associates
> 1230 Oakmead Parkway, Suite 204
> Sunnyvale, CA 94085
> Tel: (408) 245-3915 x111
> Fax: (408) 245-3977
> E-mail:    kevin_pierpoint at oxfordcorp.com
> Website: www.oxfordcorp.com
> "The Right Talent. Right Now.?"
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PenLUG-Members mailing list
> PenLUG-Members at penlug.org
> http://jeffk.com/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1599 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060120/01dba98e/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Fri Jan 20 08:25:02 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:25:02 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 9
Message-ID: <4EB4041A-89D1-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>


This slipped by me for a week or so.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
> Date: January 9, 2006 12:42:13 PM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 9
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
> January 9, 2006
> ================================================================
> -"PHP Hacks" Author Available to Speak to SF Bay Area Groups
> -New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book
> -New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book
> -Promotional Material Available
> -Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Book Info
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Review Books are Available
> Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
> send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on
> your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date.
> Allow at least four weeks for shipping.
>
>
> ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews
> Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review.
> For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>
>
>
> ***Discount Information
> Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on
> O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf,
> SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG.
>
>
> ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available
> Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in
> touch with our sales department.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> General News or Inquiries
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Jack Herrington, author of "PHP Hacks," is available to speak with
> Northern California groups. Let me know if you are interested.
>
>
> ***New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book
> We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
> web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
> O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the
> O'Reilly book of your choice.
>
> ETech Banners:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/etech/>
>
>
> ***New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book
> We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
> web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
> MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book
> of your choice.
>
> MySQL Users Conference:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/mysql/>
>
>
> ***Promotional Material Available:
> The following items are available for your next meeting. Let me know  
> the
> item and the amount you'd like:
>
> -MAKE Magazine Volume 4
> -O'Reilly Catalog
> -30% UG Discount bookmarks
> -ETech Conference brochures <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
> -ETel Conference brochures <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etel/>
>
>
> ***Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups
> Give your members access to content from Safari's thousands of
> technology books right on your site and raise money for your
> user group at the same time. Use custom designed search boxes,
> show the latest releases, or display your favorite book cover
> with our easy to use tools.
>
> For more information and to sign up for the Safari Affiliate
> Program, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/safari_affl.html?CMP=EMC-U1L284871961>
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly News for User Group Members
> January 9, 2006
> ================================================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Book News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Information Dashboard Design
> -Understanding Linux Network Internals
> -QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual
> -Google Maps Hacks
> -AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition
> -Window Seat
> -Active Directory, Third Edition
> -Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook
> -Google Advertising Tools
> -RFID Essentials
> -We the Media
> -PSP Hacks
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Upcoming Events
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9
> -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, New Haven, CT--February 16
> -Photo Marketing Association International Convention
>  and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Conference News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -MySQL Registration is Open
> -ETech Registration is Open
> -40% discount for ETel--Early Registration Pricing Ends January 9
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005
> -IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet
> -MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner
> -Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain)
> -Top 7 PHP Security Blunders
> -Inside NetBSD's CGD
> -O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF
> -The Power of mdfind
> -Mac Users and the Macs They Use
> -Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System
> -Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids
> -10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site
> -Web 2.0 Connectedness
> -Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real
>  Application Clusters
> -Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1
> Introduction to Camera Raw
> -Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches
> -Calling all Digital Crafters!
> -MAKE Forums
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> From Your Peers
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12
>
> ================================================
> Book News
> ================================================
> Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
> group? Ask your group leader for more information.
>
> For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>
>
> Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch,
> Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress
> book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
> Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/>
>
> ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at
> least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer
> applies to US delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico.
> For more details, go to:
> <http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> New Releases
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Information Dashboard Design
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100167
> Dashboards have become popular in recent years as uniquely powerful
> tools for communicating important information at a glance. This book
> will teach you the visual design skills you need to create dashboards
> that communicate clearly, rapidly, and compellingly. The greatest
> display technology in the world won't solve this if you fail to use
> effective visual design. And if a dashboard fails to tell you precisely
> what you need to know in an instant, you'll never use it, even if it's
> filled with cute gauges, meters, and traffic lights. Don't let your
> investment in dashboard technology go to waste.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/infodashboard/>
>
>
> ***Understanding Linux Network Internals
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596002556
> A no-nonsense guide to Linux networking, "Understanding Linux Network
> Internals" offers a clear view of the underlying concepts and teaches  
> you
> to follow the C code that implements it. Topics include system
> initialization, network interface card (NIC) device drivers, bridging,
> routing, ICMP, and more.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/understandlni/>
>
>
> ***QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual
> Publisher:O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101848
> If your company is ready to minimize paperwork and maximize
> productivity, control spending and boost sales, QuickBooks 2006 can  
> help
> you make it happen--but only if you know how to use it. And it doesn't
> come with a manual. Lucky for you, there's "QuickBooks 2006: The  
> Missing
> Manual," the comprehensive, up-to-date guide to saving time and money
> while beefing up business with QuickBooks.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/quickbookstmm2/>
>
>
> ***Google Maps Hacks
> Publisher:O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101619
> The nearest pizza, the cheapest gas, the best meeting place for a
> group--"Google Maps Hacks" shows you creative ways to add to and  
> customize
> the satellite images and underlying API of Google Maps for applications
> serendipitous or serious. Written by Schuyler Erle and Rich Gibson  
> (with
> a foreword by Google Maps tech leads, Jens and Lars Rasmussen), Google
> Maps Hacks shares dozens of tricks for combining the capabilities of
> Google's Keyhole map feature with your own datasets, so you can create
> interactive maps for unlimited personal and commercial applications.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googlemapshks/>
>
>
> ***AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition
> Publisher:O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596102119
> Fully revised and updated--and with more and better examples than
> ever--this new edition of the top-selling "AppleScript: The Definitive
> Guide" shows anyone how to use AppleScript to make your Mac time more
> efficient and more enjoyable by automating repetitive tasks,  
> customizing
> applications, and even controlling complex workflows. It's perfect for
> novices, developers, and everyone in between who wants to know how,
> where, and why to use AppleScript.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/applescpttdg2/index.html>
>
>
> ***Window Seat
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100833
> "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" is  
> a
> complete view of a creative project from the artist's perspective.
> Julieanne Kost, a Photoshop and creative thinking guru, has taken her
> own experience shooting images out of airplane windows to create a
> unique seminar in three parts: a manifesto of ways to stay creatively
> alive; a portfolio of stunning photographs, with commentaries  
> describing
> her experiences and thought process; and a technical appendix that
> includes the details of the images were shot, manipulated, and prepared
> for printing.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/windowseat/>
>
> A sample excerpt, "The Art of Creative Thinking," is availble online:
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/windowseat/chapter/index.html>
>
>
> ***Active Directory, Third Edition
> ISBN: 0596101732
> Fully updated to cover Active Directory for Windows Server 2003 SP1 and
> R2, this third edition is full of important updates and corrections.
> Discover how to design, manage, and maintain a small, medium, or
> enterprise Active Directory infrastructure. It's perfect for all Active
> Directory administrators, whether you manage a single server or a  
> global
> multinational with thousands of servers.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/actdir3/>
>
>
> ***Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596008791
> This quick, look-up reference is perfect for anyone in the science and
> engineering community who wants to improve upon their Excel skills.
> You'll learn how to leverage Excel to perform both routine and complex
> calculations, and then visualize the results for presentation. Features
> practical data analysis techniques and real-world examples from a range
> of scientific disciplines.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/excelseckbk/>
>
> Chapter 9,  "Solving Equations," is available online:
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/excelseckbk/chapter/index.html>
>
>
> ***Google Advertising Tools
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101082
> This comprehensive guide takes a close look at advertising on the
> web--how it works and how Google's advertising programs can turn your
> site into a money-maker. Tasks include delivering image ads precisely
> targeted to your site, and generating text ads that accompany specific
> search term results. After reading this book, you'll know Google's
> AdSense and AdWords services inside and out.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildinggoogle/>
>
>
> ***RFID Essentials
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596009445
> Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) is rapidly changing the way
> businesses track inventory and assets. From Walmart and Tesco, to the
> U.S. Department of Defense, early efforts are already showing benefits,
> but software, integration, and data processing for RFID still present a
> challenge. If you are a developer or an architect charged with
> developing an RFID system, this book is for you.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rfid/>
>
>
> ***We the Media
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596102275
> In "We the Media," nationally acclaimed newspaper columnist and blogger
> Dan Gillmor shows how anyone can produce the news, using personal  
> blogs,
> Internet chat groups, email, and a host of other tools. He tells the
> story of this emerging phenomenon and sheds light on this deep shift in
> how we make and consume the news. Journalism in the 21st century will
> be fundamentally different from the Big Media oligarchy that prevails
> today. "We the Media" casts light on the future of journalism, and
> invites us all to be part of it.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wethemedia/>
>
>
> ***PSP Hacks
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101430
> "PSP Hacks" shows you how to make the versatile and powerful new
> PlayStation Portable (PSP) do more than you ever imagined--and more  
> than
> Sony ever intended--with 50 innovative hacks, tweaks, tricks, and
> how-tos for customizing your PSP and taking full advantage of features,
> capabilities, and functionality far beyond what's listed in the PSP  
> user
> manual.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/psphks/>
>
> ================================================
> Upcoming Events
> ================================================
> ***For more events, please see:
> http://events.oreilly.com/
>
> ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9
> Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for
> Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital
> Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer.	
> <http://www.peterkrogh.com/Pages/digital/ 
> digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash>
>
>
> ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar,New Haven, CT--February 16
> Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for
> Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital
> Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer.	
> <http://www.peterkrogh.com/Pages/digital/ 
> digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash>
> 	
> 	
> ***Photo Marketing Association International Convention
>  and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--Febuary 26-March 1
> Stop by our booth( #2117) to check out our new titles. Orange County
> Convention Center West.
> <http://pmai.org/>
>
> ================================================
> Conference News
> ================================================
> ***MySQL Users Conference Registration in Open
> Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest
> gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event
> where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over
> 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one
> roof.
>
> MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006
> Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA
> <http://www.mysqluc.com/>
>
> User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double
> discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off
> the early registration price.
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://www.mysqluc.com/pub/w/45/register.html>
>
>
> ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference
> We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and
> the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth
> continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and  
> content
> keeps streaming from the firehose. How do we visualize all of this  
> digital
> data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? The coming
> technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we have  
> more
> than enough already. It's time to do something with that data. It's  
> time
> to build The Attention Economy.
>
> O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006
> Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA
> <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
>
> User Group members who register before January 16, 2006 get a double
> discount. Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off
> the early registration price.
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/register.html>
>
>
> ***New 40% discount for ETel
> Join us on January 24-26 in San Francisco when telephony's key figures,
> like Jim Van Meggelen, Peter Cochrane, Mark Spencer, Norman Lewis, and
> Clay Shirkey, convene to provide a high-level perspective of the future
> of telephony. And as a special offer to our friends, save an additional
> 40% when you register using code etel06lms.
> <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etel/>
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/etel2006/create/ord_etel06>
>
> ================================================
> News From O'Reilly & Beyond
> ================================================
> ---------------------
> General News
> ---------------------
> ***O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005
> "Head First Java," "Mac OS X: The Missing Manual," and MAKE magazine
> were voted Best of 2005 in the Computers & Internet category of both  
> the
> Editors' Picks and the Top 10 Customers' Favorites lists. In addition,
> "iLife: The Missing Manual," "Mapping Hacks," and "Revolution in the
> Valley" were all chosen as Editors' Picks in the Digital Life category.
> Thanks!
> <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/15959201/ 
> ref%3Dgw%5Fbr%5Fbb05/102-5317297-3006519>
>
>
> ***IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet
> Developers now have the right tools and the right motivation to build a
> wide range of new desktop applications, telephone services, and
> corporate phone systems that integrate voice with the Web, IM, WiFi,  
> and
> more. Ed Stephenson talks with program cochair Surj Patel about what's
> emerging in telephony, and what you can expect to learn at O'Reilly's
> upcoming Emerging Telephony Conference.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/etel/2006/01/05/ip-telephony-you- 
> aint-seen-nothin-yet.html>
>
>
> ***MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner
> Didn't get what you wanted for the holidays? Need to get rid of what  
> you
> did get? Or maybe you just are looking to get a great deal on anything?
> Nancy Conner, the author of "eBay: The Missing Manual" talks about
> getting the most out of the online auction service. Tips for both  
> novice
> and experienced users cover the many types of auctions on eBay, basic
> and advanced bidding and sales techniques and ways to protect yourself
> when buying and selling. Want to know how to snipe auctions? What all
> those eBay ratings mean? Nancy covers all this and more.
> <http://www.macvoices.com/archives/2005/521.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Open Source
> ---------------------
> ***Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain)
> One of the great things about the games of yore is that they tended to
> be pretty simple, and as Josh Glover explains, Pong is one of the
> simplest to implement. In this first article of a three-part series,
> Josh shows you how to clone Pong all by yourself.
> <http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2005/12/15/clone-pong- 
> using-sdl.html>
>
>
> ***Top 7 PHP Security Blunders
> PHP's availability, ease of use, and support makes it the first choice
> for many budding developers. Yet the potential for the unwary coder to
> overlook certain key aspects of security lands countless developers in
> hot water. Pax explores the key security holes, common issues, and
> typical oversights in this hands-on primer.
> <http://www.sitepoint.com/article/php-security-blunders>
>
>
> ***Inside NetBSD's CGD
> Security-minded laptop users live in fear of theft, not only of their
> computer, but also of their precious secret data. NetBSD's CGD project  
> is
> a cryptographic virtual disk that can protect sensitive data while
> acting like a normal filesystem. Federico Biancuzzi recently  
> interviewed
> its author, Roland Dowdeswell, on the goals and implementation of the
> system.
> <http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2005/12/21/netbsd_cgd.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Mac
> ---------------------
> ***O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF
> Macworld SF 2006 is shaping up to be a busy show for O'Reilly Media. We
> have great specials, lots of books, a full speaker lineup, and a menu  
> of
> activities. Here's a comprehensive overview.
> <http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/12/20/macworld.html>
>
>
> ***The Power of mdfind
> In addition to the little blue magnifying glass in the upper-right
> corner of your desktop, Tiger provides the mdfind and mdls commands for
> searching. Andy Lester discovered them while working on his updates to
> "Mac OS X Tiger In A Nutshell." Essentially, they provide the power of
> Spotlight in the Unix shell. Here's how it works.
> <http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/01/04/mdfind.html>
>
>
> ***Mac Users and the Macs They Use
> When you read the articles and weblog posts by prominent Mac users and
> Mac pundits, do you ever find yourself wondering what kind of computer
> setup they're using? Giles Turnbull does. He recently contacted a spat
> of Mac professionals and asked them what they depend on. Here's what
> they had to say.
> <http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2005/12/28/mac-users-and-the- 
> macs-they-use.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Windows/.NET
> ---------------------
> ***Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System
> Unit testing is one of the tasks that every programmer worth their salt
> needs to do. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how to use the new Unit Testing
> feature of Visual Studio 2005 Team System to auto-generate the code
> needed to test your application.
> <http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2006/01/03/unit- 
> testing-in-visual-studio-2005-team-system.html>
>
>
> ***Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids
> One of Jesse Liberty's clients has a problem: she has a database with 2
> million records and wants to display these records in a data grid, but
> does not want to load them all into memory from the database. She wants
> them loaded "just in time." Jesse shows how to use the new DataGridView
> to neatly solve the problem.
> <http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2005/12/20/just-in- 
> time-data-loading-for-datagrids.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Web
> ---------------------
> ***10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site
> If you're about to launch into the world of ecommerce, or want to boost
> an existing site's revenue in the coming months, this article is for
> you. Jason's tongue-in-cheek advice will help you hone your approach to
> ecommerce, boost customer satisfaction, and your bottom line!
> <http://www.sitepoint.com/article/steps-horrible-ecommerce-site>
>
>
> ***Web 2.0 Connectedness
> Kevin Yank urges Web 2.0 Developers to stop creating the next killer
> app, and instead think of ways to improve on what's already out there.
> <http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/01/04/web-20-connectedness/>
>
> ---------------------
> Java
> ---------------------
> ***Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real
>  Application Clusters
> Maintaining transaction integrity, and rolling back failed steps,
> becomes more difficult on a cluster. One option is to move some of the
> load balancing decisions to your code, and account for which cluster
> nodes you're using. Sachin Shetty shows how this works in the context  
> of
> an Oracle Real Application Cluster.
> <http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2005/12/21/global-distributed- 
> transactions-with-oracle-rac.html>
>
>
> ***Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1
> Maven's not just about building; it's about viewing, understanding, and
> managing your projects. In this first part of a two-part excerpt from
> "Maven: A Developer's Notebook," authors Vincent Massol and Timothy M.
> O'Brien introduce Maven's reporting features for issue tracking,
> dependencies, code style, and more.
> <http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/excerpt/mavenadn_ch04/index.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Digital Media
> ---------------------
> ***Introduction to Camera Raw
> Adobe's Camera Raw is arguably the most popular RAW-format converter
> available today. In this video, Deke McClelland introduces you to this
> tool and shows you tips for making image adjustments.
> <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2005/12/16/camera-raw.html>
>
>
> ***Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches
> Dixie Dregs co-founder Andy West discovered that virtuosity can be a
> liability in the music world, but a benefit in technology. Now this
> four-time Grammy nominee programs computers by day and pursues his
> amazing music at night, drawing the best from both disciplines. Here's
> how.
> <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/01/04/andy-west-dixie-dregs- 
> software.html>
>
> ---------------------
> MAKE
> ---------------------
> ***Calling all Digital Crafters!
> Do you like to knit robots? Do you make jewelry out of old computer
> parts? Share your crafty projects with us and you may see them on the
> MAKE: Blog.
> <http://www.makezine.com/cs/user/create/link>
>
> ***MAKE Forums
> MAKE now has forums  They're just getting started, but feel free to go
> over and check them out.
> <http://forums.makezine.com/>.
>
> ***Meet Your Fellow Makers
> Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings:
> <http://www.makezine.com/events/>
>
> ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE:
> <http://makezine.com/samples/>
>
> ================================================
>> From Your Peers
> ================================================
> ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12
> The fourth annual Southern California Linux Expo will be held February
> 11-12, 2006.  SCALE continues to grow year after year, and increasingly
> attracts the movers & shakers in Open Source software.  SCALE is
> not strictly a commercial Expo; its primary focus is and always has
> been education.  Expo booths are provided not only for commercial
> exhibitors, but also for non-profit organizations.  On the commercial
> side, exhibitors include IBM, Google, Ticketmaster, Tolis Group, and
> Centrify.  On the non-profit side, Ubuntu, KDE, Debian, and NetBSD are
> among the many groups that will be manning booths. Speakers include
> Chris Dibona, John Terpstra, Aaron Seigo, and Hans Reiser.
>
> For 35% off Expo admission use the promo code ORELY at:
> <http://www.socallinuxexpo.org>
>
>
> ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user
> groups around the globe are up to:
> <http://wiki.oreillynet.com/usergroups/index.cgi>
>
> Until next time--
>
> Marsee Henon
>
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly
> 1005 Gravenstein Highway North
> Sebastopol, CA   95472
> http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
> ================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 27796 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060120/f86f5a54/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Mon Jan 23 09:24:34 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:24:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Balug-talk] How Hackers Collaborate: Monday
	(tonight!) in Palo Alto
Message-ID: <1EEAEA42-8C35-11DA-B0A7-000A95EA5592@well.com>


anybody interested in going to this?
tonight in palo alto. if i go i can provide
rides to and from.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Eugene Eric Kim <eekim at eekim.com>
> Date: January 23, 2006 12:18:08 AM PST
> To: balug-talk at lists.balug.org
> Subject: [Balug-talk] How Hackers Collaborate: Monday (tonight!) in  
> Palo Alto
>
> Tonight's SDForum Collaboration SIG meeting in Palo Alto is entitled,
> "How Hackers Collaborate."  We've got an excellent set of "panelists":
> Lee Felsenstein, the legendary hacker and activist; Jim Warren, public
> policy advocate and founder of many important tech magazines and
> conferences; and David Weekly, an entrepreneur who organizes a monthly
> Bay Area hacker gathering called SuperHappyDevHouse.
>
> I call them "panelists," because this won't be a traditional panel.
> It will be highly participatory, an opportunity for you to share your
> own stories and lessons about working with other hackers.
>
> The "panel" will be at the Pillsbury Winthrop law firm in Palo Alto,
> from 6:30-9pm.  The event is free for SDForum members, and costs $15
> for everyone else.  Please come!  It will be engaging, entertaining,
> and educational.  More info is at:
>
> http://collaborationsig.jot.com/WikiHome/EventArchives/ 
> HowHackersCollaborate
>
> -Eugene
>
> -- 
> +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim at eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/  
> ===+
> |       "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they      
>    |
> +=====  can have an excuse to drink alcohol."  --Steve Martin   
> ===========+
> _______________________________________________
> balug-talk mailing list
> balug-talk at lists.balug.org
> http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1920 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060123/7d11d3f0/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Tue Jan 24 12:06:51 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:06:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology
Message-ID: <F5156E3E-8D14-11DA-B0A7-000A95EA5592@well.com>


This looks interesting to me, kind of an open-source
approach to tech book publishing, getting users to
criticize books before they're finally typeset and
printed. check it out.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
> Date: January 23, 2006 1:54:34 PM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology
>
> Hello,
>
> Can you please let your members know about the following news?
>
> O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called
> Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge
> technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to
> purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. You'll even
> have the chance to shape the final product by sending feedback to the
> author and editors. The beta version just debuted with four
> works-in-progress covering Ajax, Ruby, and Flickr.
> For more information, go to:
> http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/
>
> Titles now available:
> Ajax Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxhks/
>
> Flickr Hacks: Rough Cuts Version
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flickrhks/
>
> Ruby Cookbook: Rough Cuts Version
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/
>
> Ruby on Rails: Up and Running: Rough Cuts Version
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyrails/
>
> Rough Cuts FAQ
> http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/faq.csp
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marsee
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly
> 1005 Gravenstein Highway North
> Sebastopol, CA   95472
> http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
> ================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1912 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060124/b9f1ca6e/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Wed Jan 25 09:24:48 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:24:48 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] possible python talk in March 
Message-ID: <7C655E05-8DC7-11DA-B0A7-000A95EA5592@well.com>


hiya, all:
There's the possibility that we could get a Python
(programming language) instructor to come hang
out for the evening of March 20 (third Monday of
the month, 6:00 PM till about 8:00 PM).

If nobody objects, I'll have her show up at the
Javacat on March 20.

Python's a modern language with a lot of support
in a lot of different directions:

----- Java-ite interests -------------

* http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/savikko.html
Gang of Four patterns (singleton, etc.), should appeal
to java-ites.

* http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/zukowski.html
MVC design, interesting "undo" discussion -- more
pattern stuff for java-ites.

* http://www.python.org/pypi/epydoc/2.1
a la javadoc, an API documentation tool.

* http://www.python.org/pypi/mpservlets/1.1.6
Mod_python servlet class handler.

----- Webby interests ----------------

* http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/12/
Quixote Toolkit for web work: http request, response,
session management...

* http://www.python.org/workshops/1995-12/papers/shprentz.html
creating HTML documents with Python, objects map to
html document structure.

* http://docs.python.org/lib/module-htmllib.html
parser for HTML 2.0

* http://docs.python.org/lib/module-webbrowser.html
module for html document.

----- General interests -------------------

* http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/lib/module-re.html
this is about regular expressions: the claim is that
python has similar capabilities to Perl, which should
be interesting to both perlies and sysadms.

* http://docs.python.org/modindex.html
module index shows rich XML support. I was surprised
at the amount of Macintosh ( Carbon.* ) support. There's
lots of system support (sockets, heap, file*, gzip, commands,
and more--impressive for sysadms), DOM, SAX, and SOAP
support....

* http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=index
Wow! A though Z never looked so good. wiki engines,
bitTorrent, cryptography, bicycle repair, Bruce the
presentation tool, IRC client, plenty of math, RSS
toolkit, SOAP toolkit, python-extensible SQL db engine,
blog server, application framework including CORBA
and error handling and GUI support, 3-D graphic engine,
support for various popular database engines, TeX
formatter, (my favorite: a Python to Assembler translator),
bluetooth support, grid networking support..., TONS
MORE, what a fun list.

* from the EETimes newsletter:
"Scripting language takes silicon turn--
If you want an easy way to design chips, says consultant
Jan Decaluwe, look no further than the Python scripting
language. Python can be turned into a hardware description
language (HDL) with the help of Decaluwe's open-source
tool suite, MyHDL.




From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 20:11:48 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:11:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Kanotix 2005-4 is out and working very well.
Message-ID: <20060127041148.32018.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

   Kanotix 2005-4 was released December 31, for those who may have missed it.
  
 Rick probably remembers the recent problems I've had, first with SuSE 10, then several Debian-based distros (including Kanotix 2005-3.)
  
  So, I downloaded and installed Kanotix 2005-4, on my IBM Thinkpad 600X (500 Mhz Pentium III, 448 meg RAM) and it works great, no problems. Both the wireless and ethernet pcmcia cards work without it hitch. I quickly _apt-get upgraded_ and _apt-get installed_ a bunch of stuff. I upgraded to KDE 3.5.
  
  Now I can apt-get to my hearts' content. I still have SuSE 9.3 on the system, but haven't booted to it since, simply access files on the SuSE partition from Kanotix.
  
  I suspect the problems, which occured on my tower systems as well as the laptop, may have been kernel issues. Kanotix 2005-4 uses a 2.6.14 kernel.
  
  - Adrien
 
 
		
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060126/0eef961e/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Wed Feb  1 21:14:51 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:14:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting at the Javacat Sunday 11:00-1:00 PM 
Message-ID: <D6663034-93AA-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>


SF-LUG meeting Sunday, February 5:
See you there, I hope.
Javacat on Geary at 20th Avenue in San Francisco,
from 11:00 AM till 1:00 PM.




From jim at well.com  Tue Feb  7 09:21:57 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:21:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15,
	SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals
Message-ID: <3DB87BD2-97FE-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>


anybody want to make the trek?

Begin forwarded message:

> From: vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>
> Date: February 5, 2006 9:09:08 PM PST
> To: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby 
> Conference - Request for Proposals
>
> This sounds kind of interesting.
>
> nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com wrote:
>  To: <new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com>
> From: <nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com>
> Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:10:24 -0700
> Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby 
> Conference - Request for Proposals
>
>  Software Development Forum (SDForum) presents:
>
>  Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals
>
>  DEADLINE:? Proposals due Wednesday, February 15 (conference is April
>  22-23)
>
>  MORE INFO:
>  Website: http://www.sdforum.org/rubyconference
>  Email:?? info at sdforum.org
>  Phone:?? 408-414-5950
>
>  SDForum and Ruby Central are planning a two day conference (starting
>  Saturday, April 22 and ending Sunday, April 23) to explor! e all the 
> facets
>  of Ruby and Ruby on Rails. Proposals are now being accepted.? 
> Deadline for
>  proposals is February 15, 2006.
>
>  Program Overview
>
>  In the last five years, software development has undergone a dramatic
>  shift away from statically-typed, compiled languages and towards more
>  dynamic languages like Perl, Python, and Ruby.
>
>  In the past year Ruby on Rails- a framework for quickly building 
> highly
>  interactive and robust web applications-has become the single most 
> talked
>  about framework in software. Rails also features built-in support for
>  Ajax, which is the technology that provides the revolutionary rich 
> user
>  experience behind Google Maps, A9 and Writely.
>
>  If you're a software developer who's curious about the cutting edge 
> and
>  wondering what the noise is all about, SDForum and Ruby Central 
> invite you
>  to spend two days drinking from a ruby-colored firehose.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) 
> (intro) (job) (tech)
>  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
>  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or 
> http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
> Computer internet security
> Computer internet business
> Computer internet access
>
> Computer internet privacy securities
> Computer internet help
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> 	? 	?Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
> ?
> 	? 	?To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ?new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ?
> 	? 	?Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 4313 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060207/905a54b1/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Tue Feb  7 09:24:15 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:24:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
In-Reply-To: <20060129151644.2bbc6608@localhost.localdomain>
References: <2756303A-893A-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060129151644.2bbc6608@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8FFD4854-97FE-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>



On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Geoff Smith wrote:

>
> for future reference, I ended up getting Debian Sarge by buying a 
> Debian book at border's books downtown.  It's a good book too, so it's 
> a pretty decent way to get debian.
>
> Geoff.
>
> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800
> jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below).
>>
>> (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through
>> downloading. For most people, I'd say
>> listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty
>> old jim.)
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>>> Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST
>>> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
>>>
>>> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>>>
>>>>    Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and
>>>> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.
>>>
>>> Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so
>>> download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26
>>>
>>> See also:  "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/
>>> (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch)
>>>
>>> Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, 
>>> there
>>> doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14
>>> CDs
>>> or 2 DVDs.  You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be
>>> replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway.  So, 
>>> why
>>> not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB?
>>>
>>> (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture:  alpha, amd64,
>>> arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc.  
>>> amd64
>>> was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are
>>> official.  He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>
>
>
> -- 
> Geoff Smith
> President, Founder
> http://www.stumbleupon.com/
> cell: 403.510.0224
>




From jim at well.com  Tue Feb  7 12:01:10 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:01:10 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
Message-ID: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Here's the debian book title from Geoff.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Geoff Smith <geoff at stumbleupon.com>
> Date: February 7, 2006 11:18:17 AM PST
> To: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
>
>
> name of the book is:
>
> The Debian System: Concept and Techniques
>
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:24:15 -0800
> jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Geoff Smith wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> for future reference, I ended up getting Debian Sarge by buying a
>>> Debian book at border's books downtown.  It's a good book too, so 
>>> it's
>>> a pretty decent way to get debian.
>>>
>>> Geoff.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800
>>> jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below).
>>>>
>>>> (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through
>>>> downloading. For most people, I'd say
>>>> listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty
>>>> old jim.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>>>>> Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST
>>>>> To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>>>>>
>>>>>>    Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and
>>>>>> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so
>>>>> download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26
>>>>>
>>>>> See also:  "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/
>>>>> (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable 
>>>>> branch)
>>>>>
>>>>> Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case,
>>>>> there
>>>>> doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 
>>>>> 14
>>>>> CDs
>>>>> or 2 DVDs.  You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be
>>>>> replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway.  So,
>>>>> why
>>>>> not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB?
>>>>>
>>>>> (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture:  alpha, 
>>>>> amd64,
>>>>> arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc.
>>>>> amd64
>>>>> was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 
>>>>> are
>>>>> official.  He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sf-lug mailing list
>>>>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Geoff Smith
>>> President, Founder
>>> http://www.stumbleupon.com/
>>> cell: 403.510.0224
>>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Geoff Smith
> President, CTO
> http://www.stumbleupon.com/
> cell: 415.652.4430
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2792 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060207/c6d44f62/attachment.bin>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Tue Feb  7 12:36:39 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:36:39 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD
In-Reply-To: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060207203639.GU28560@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> Here's the debian book title from Geoff.

_The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques_ by Martin Krafft has gotten
admiring reviews, such as this one:
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20051031#bookreview 

It addresses one thing about Debian I've found maddening:  You use the
system for a few years and only belatedly notice entire very cool system
features, without any real explantion or rationale.  

See also:  http://debiansystem.info/





From jim at well.com  Thu Feb  9 23:37:31 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:37:31 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP 
Message-ID: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web
site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with
ambitions to integrate with some kind of database....

    I'm supposed to figure out how we can dynamically
test the current date and update the web page to show
the next meeting, which is either the first Sunday or the
third Monday of the month.
    For example, if it's the tenth of February, the web
site should tell people the next meeting is Monday,
February 20. On Tuesday, February 21 the web site
should proclaim the next meeting as Sunday March 5.

    So far, walking the output of the cal utility and
making sense of the date function in PHP is difficult.
I'll keep working, hoping that someone will point to
some code that does the trick.
jim






From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Feb 12 00:14:05 2006
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:14:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP
In-Reply-To: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <43EEEE4D.2050008@sfsu.edu>

jim stockford wrote:

>
>    Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web
> site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with
> ambitions to integrate with some kind of database....

[snipped]

Hi Jim,
Considering all the different functions you'd like to build into the
SFLUG site eventually, you could use a CMS such as Drupal. We've been
using Drupal for some time now, and find it quite useful. Events get
posted on a site calendar automatically. For example, see
http://is.sfsu.edu/event/2005/11/12/month/all/all/1 We post the event as
a page (called an event node in Drupal terms) and it shows up on the
calendar. It can even be imported via iCal into a layered calendar
application such as Mozilla Sunbird.

Of course, if the purpose is to build something from scratch, I can
appreciate the effort.

cheers,
Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From jim at well.com  Sun Feb 12 14:00:18 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:00:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SBAY Announce] SBAY.org open board posiitions
Message-ID: <F467EC38-9C12-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    the open vacancies in the message below are volunteer
positions, not paid.
    Check out their web site:
> http://corp.sbay.org/
    Send serious inquiries to:
> star+sbay at starshine.org
    And of course read her email below....


Begin forwarded message:

> From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
> Date: February 10, 2006 2:19:52 PM PST
> To: "SBAY.org announce list" <announce at sbay.org>
> Subject: [SBAY Announce] SBAY.org open board posiitions
> Reply-To: star+sbay at starshine.org
>
>
>   Apologies if you are seeing more than one copy of this - that would 
> mean
>   that you are active in more than one Special Interest Group (SIG) or
>   committee of SBAY.org activities.  If there was delay, note that our
>   announce lists are moderated and I am not the listmaster.
>
>   If this is the first you're hearing of SBAY (and I suppose even if 
> it's
>   not ;> ) - SBAY.org is a technical organization dedicated to support 
> of
>   electronic communications, open source technology, and the 
> technologies
>   that these are leading us toward.
>
>   We still have two vacancies and ideally, we'd like to fill them by 
> the
>   February 18 board meeting, so that these directors could be accepted 
> and
>   able to attend that meeting.  The first order of business will be to 
> fill
>   these positions if there are candidates for them.
>
>   Don't be bashful - if you *think* you're interested, feel free to ask
>   enough to become sure;  I can be easily reached by cellphone, or if 
> you
>   prefer to email, please use:
> 	star+sbay at starshine.org
>   lest you risk being sent to my flood folder... which I do check, but 
> not
>   nearly as often.  You might find what you need without having to 
> ask, at:
> 	http://corp.sbay.org/
>
> 1. Secretary to the Board of Directors
>    In this position you would --
>    * maintain the current text of the by-laws.
>      This will be easy to start with, since the original as agreed 
> upon by
>      our board is part of our incorporation filing with the state.
>    * maintain the minutes of meetings of Board of Directors and members
>      The previous board meeting was conducted partly over IRC, thus a
>      session transcript of that portion was very easy.  Good typing 
> might
>      be desired, but you don't have to be verbose.
>    * maintains organization records
>      This will become increasingly important as our SIGs are involved 
> in
>      major projects and membership records are maintained.  There will
>      likely be some coordination with the Treasurer.
>   This position is elected by the Board of Directors for one 
> calendar-year
>   term at a time.  The secretary is a critical position for smooth 
> operation
>   of any club, so we hope for someone who can get along well with our 
> varied
>   SIGs as well.
>
> 2. A 2006 calendar-year voting seat on the Board of Directors.
>    * You would be expected to make efforts to attend board of directors
>      meetings, although electronic means may be available and by phone 
> would
>      do in a pinch.
>    * As part of the board you would look out for the organization's 
> best
>      interest as a whole, as well as a positive result for our SIGs and
>      projects.
>
>   Thanks for bothering to read this far;  if either spot looks like 
> you, I
>   look forward to seeing you at SBAY.org's next board meeting.
>
>                  :
>                . | .  starshine.org  * Starshine Technical Services
> Heather Stern -->*<--                  Sysadmin Support and Training
>   star at      ' | `  Vice President * SBAY.org
>                  :                     408.761.4912 cell 800.938.4078 
> pager
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> SBAY Announce mailing list - sbay.org announcements
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 4006 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060212/f4297fc1/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Sun Feb 12 14:46:11 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:46:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: On another subject: HP C3600S
Message-ID: <5D5A5496-9C19-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


anybody got advice for Alex?

Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're
old enough that there's a good chance all the
subsystems are known to the linux software folks.
    if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly
someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall
beating and at last resort the machines can be
donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch
(of which there are two or three at least in the sf
bay area).
    An alternative approach is to look through the
linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em
and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from
the hip).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com>
> Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST
> To: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S
> Reply-To: alex at kleider.net
>
> The following computer is up for grabs:
> HP C3600S
> with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP
> internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics
> 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive.
> It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux
> running on it.
> Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux
> that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I
> might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to
> help me get it running under Linux.
> Any suggestions or comments?
> Alex
>
>
>
> alex at kleider.net
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1945 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060212/50d7726b/attachment.bin>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 12 19:43:21 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] On another subject: HP C3600S
Message-ID: <20060213034322.37035.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Alex,

There is a good chance Linux will run well on that hardware. If not, you
can always disassemble it and use some of the parts for other systems.

Cheers,

Adrien

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote: To: sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:46:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: On another subject: HP C3600S

 
anybody got advice for Alex?

Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're
old enough that there's a good chance all the
subsystems are known to the linux software folks.
    if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly
someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall
beating and at last resort the machines can be
donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch
(of which there are two or three at least in the sf
bay area).
    An alternative approach is to look through the
linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em
and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from
the hip).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Alex Kleider 
> Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST
> To: jim stockford 
> Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S
> Reply-To: alex at kleider.net
>
> The following computer is up for grabs:
> HP C3600S
> with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP
> internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics
> 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive.
> It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux
> running on it.
> Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux
> that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I
> might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to
> help me get it running under Linux.
> Any suggestions or comments?
> Alex
>
>
>
> alex at kleider.net
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060212/48da5445/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 12 19:47:36 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:47:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP
In-Reply-To: <43EEEE4D.2050008@sfsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20060213034736.70922.qmail@web53611.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Sameer,
Your idea of using Drupal is good. What we are looking for, is a simple script, that will automatically update with the date and time of the meetings, without someone continually edting the page. It is hard to make a commitment to have someone always do that. Life happens. We would like to update the site with the latest news in the Linux/OpenSource world. Eventually add member's resumes and community events.  Any suggestions?

Vince

Sameer Verma <sverma at sfsu.edu> wrote: jim stockford wrote:

>
>    Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web
> site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with
> ambitions to integrate with some kind of database....

[snipped]

Hi Jim,
Considering all the different functions you'd like to build into the
SFLUG site eventually, you could use a CMS such as Drupal. We've been
using Drupal for some time now, and find it quite useful. Events get
posted on a site calendar automatically. For example, see
http://is.sfsu.edu/event/2005/11/12/month/all/all/1 We post the event as
a page (called an event node in Drupal terms) and it shows up on the
calendar. It can even be imported via iCal into a layered calendar
application such as Mozilla Sunbird.

Of course, if the purpose is to build something from scratch, I can
appreciate the effort.

cheers,
Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060212/ecb76dc8/attachment.html>

From mark at kermit.org  Sun Feb 12 21:58:43 2006
From: mark at kermit.org (mark at kermit.org)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:58:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP 
In-Reply-To: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <12B3E92B-863B-4DE7-9E72-FC1B4C675B3F@kermit.org>

Here is a little function with an example use I just
wrote - I think it should do the trick. Hope you guys
can use it:

<?php

function nextMeeting($nextMonth = false) {

         $day=date("j");
         $month=date("n");
         $year=date("Y");

         if ($nextMonth) {
                 $day=1;
                 if ($month == 12) {
                         $month=1;
                         $year++;
                 } else {
                         $month++;
                 }
         }

         $dayofweek=date("w");
         $firstOfMonth=date("w",mktime(0, 0, 0, $month , 1, $year ));


         // firgure out what date is the first Sunday of the month
         if ( $firstOfMonth > 0 ) {
                 $firstSunday= 8 - $firstOfMonth;
         } else {
                 $firstSunday= 1;
         }

         $firstSundayDate=date("D",mktime(0, 0, 0, $month ,  
$firstSunday, $year));

         // figure out what date the third monday of the month is
         if ( $firstOfMonth > 1) {
                 $offSet = 8 - $firstOfMonth;
         } elseif ( $firstOfMonth == 0 ) {
                 $offSet=1;
         } else {
                 $offSet=0;
         }
         $thirdMonday= 15 + $offSet;
         $thirdMondayDate=date("D",mktime(0, 0, 0, $month ,  
$thirdMonday, $year));

         // lets see which of these dates now applies
         if ($day <= $firstSunday) {
                 // we didn't miss the first meeting
                 $nextMeeting=$firstSunday;
                 $nextMeetingDate=mktime(0, 0, 0, $month ,  
$nextMeeting, $year);
         } elseif ( ($day > $firstSunday) && ($day <= $thirdMonday) ) {
                 // we missed the first meeting of the month, but can  
still make the second
                 $nextMeeting=$thirdMonday;
                 $nextMeetingDate=mktime(0, 0, 0, $month ,  
$nextMeeting, $year);
         } else {
                 // we need to wait until next month
                 $nextMeetingDate=nextMeeting(1);
                 $nextMeeting=nextMeeting(1);
         }

         return $nextMeetingDate;

}

$meeting=nextMeeting();

echo "The next meeting is on " . date('l dS \of F Y', $meeting);

?>





On Feb 9, 2006, at 23:37 , jim stockford wrote:

>
>    Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web
> site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with
> ambitions to integrate with some kind of database....
>
>    I'm supposed to figure out how we can dynamically
> test the current date and update the web page to show
> the next meeting, which is either the first Sunday or the
> third Monday of the month.
>    For example, if it's the tenth of February, the web
> site should tell people the next meeting is Monday,
> February 20. On Tuesday, February 21 the web site
> should proclaim the next meeting as Sunday March 5.
>
>    So far, walking the output of the cal utility and
> making sense of the date function in PHP is difficult.
> I'll keep working, hoping that someone will point to
> some code that does the trick.
> jim
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Mon Feb 13 15:33:55 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:33:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux Management Survey Results
Message-ID: <32E2C11F-9CE9-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


check it out, we get results of last year's study.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Andi Mann" <amann at enterprisemanagement.com>
> Date: February 13, 2006 1:37:19 PM PST
> To: <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Linux Management Survey Results
>
> Hi?Jim,
>
> ?
>
> You might remember in November last year, I asked for assistance from 
> you and members of the San Francisco Linux User Group for our research 
> on the cost and effort involved in managing Linux server environments. 
> Your members? responses to our web survey were added to a wide-ranging 
> random telephone survey and in-depth interviews to get a 
> vendor-neutral look at Linux system management.
>
>  ?
>
> Well, the study is complete now, and I promised to send it to you when 
> it was done. You can get the executive summary from OSDL?s web site at 
> http://osdl.org/newsroom/studies/EMA, and the full PDF is available at 
> the web site of the main sponsor (Levanta) at 
> http://www.levanta.com/linuxstudy/. Please feel free to pass these 
> links along to your members, at your discretion. Both the summary and 
> the full report are available free of charge.
>
> ?
>
> I want to thank you again for your help with collecting primary data 
> for this study. Due to the anonymous nature of the web survey, I 
> cannot be sure that your members contributed, but I am sure they will 
> be interested to see the results anyway.
>
> ?
>
> If you have any questions or comment, please feel free to contact me.
>
> ?
>
> Regards,
>
> ?
>
> Andi Mann
>
> Senior Analyst
>
> Enterprise Management Associates.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 3175 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060213/f367704b/attachment.bin>

From hariharan_sam at yahoo.co.in  Tue Feb 14 21:30:30 2006
From: hariharan_sam at yahoo.co.in (Hariharan Sankaranarayanan)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:30:30 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kernel Training
Message-ID: <20060215053030.8615.qmail@web8515.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Hi Folks -
   
  Are there any Linux Kernel Training centres in the bay-area ? Kindly let know. 
   
  Thanks,
  Hari.
   

				
---------------------------------
 Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket
Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060215/23eccfac/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Wed Feb 15 10:33:44 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:33:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A_ANNOUNCE=3A_Registration_Open_for?=
 =?iso-8859-1?q?_Gelato_ICE=3A_Itanium=AE_Conference_=26_Expo_2006?=
Message-ID: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    The link below explains their mission but not how'd
they come up with the name?
http://www.gelato.org/about/whatis.php

    Combining "linux" with some CPU surely has got to
include kernel discussions.
    One of their questions is is there a need for a new
(optimized) programming language for the Itanium
CPU. Seems the application thrust leans toward the
scientific.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Nan Holda" <nan at gelato.org>
> Date: February 15, 2006 10:01:41 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: ANNOUNCE: Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium? 
> Conference & Expo 2006
>
> Please pass this on to your members if you think they'd be interested.
>
> The Gelato Federation announces the opening of registration for the 
> Gelato ICE: Itanium? Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 
> in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's only 
> conference dedicated specifically to Linux? on the Intel? Itanium 
> architecture. For more details, visit <www.gelato.org/meeting>.
>
> The conference-hosted by Gelato and sponsored by HP, Intel, and 
> Itanium Solutions Alliance-will be the year's highpoint for those 
> wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on Itanium 
> architecture. Join leading end users, developers, ISVs, and system 
> vendors for 40+ technical presentations on this revolutionary 
> platform. Discover which software tools to use and how to use them to 
> optimize applications for your Itanium-based systems. Also scheduled 
> is integrated technical content to complement the collocated Itanium 
> Solutions Alliance Developer Days to be held on April 26-28.
>
> The full press release is below and also available at 
> <http://www.gelato.org/about/news_view.php?id=56>.
>
> Thanks,
> Nan
>
> Nan Holda
> GELATO Federation
> Advancing Linux Itanium
> tel: 217.265.0947
> fax: 217.333.5579
> www.gelato.org
>
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium? Conference & Expo 2006
>
> CHAMPAIGN, Ill. (February 15, 2006)--The Gelato Federation 
> (<http://www.gelato.org>) announced today the opening of registration 
> for the Gelato ICE: Itanium? Conference & Expo to be held on April 
> 23-26, 2006 in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's 
> only conference dedicated specifically to Linux? on the Intel? Itanium 
> architecture. The conference will be hosted by the Gelato Federation 
> and sponsored by HP, Intel, and Itanium Solutions Alliance. Space is 
> limited. An Early Bird discount is in effect until March 25, 2006. 
> Registration information is available at 
> <http://www.gelato.org/meeting>.
>
> Gelato ICE is the conference for technical users, application and tool 
> developers, system researchers and vendors, and ISVs looking to extend 
> the impact of Linux on Itanium architecture. The event will address 
> current high-performance computing issues and collaborative solutions 
> specific to Linux on the Itanium processor, and will feature 
> presentations, poster sessions, and the exchange of information in 
> formal and informal settings. Attendees can network with key 
> researchers, system vendors, industrial users, and ISVs. Participants 
> will learn how to maximize the performance of their systems and 
> discover which tools to use and how to use them.
>
> "We are looking forward to this being our best conference to date with 
> outstanding speakers from a variety of Itanium community participants 
> as well as record attendance. The depth and breath of the technical 
> program are impressive," stated Mark K. Smith, Gelato managing 
> director. "We are also very excited about partnering with the Itanium 
> Solutions Alliance on the collocated Developer Days event that 
> immediately follows Gelato ICE."
>
> Gelato ICE 2006 will feature three full days and 40+ technical 
> presentations spotlighting Linux on Itanium-based platforms. 
> Presenters will include international experts working on this 
> architecture and speaking on topics such as: virtualization, 
> scalability, compilers, and memory management. New for Gelato ICE 2006 
> are an exhibition area and a program track targeting corporate 
> developers and IT decision makers. An expanded technical program will 
> include enterprise-specific topics like database/data mining and 
> hardware reliability.
>
> Also new for Gelato ICE 2006 is integrated technical content to 
> complement the collocated Itanium Solutions Alliance Developer Days to 
> be held on April 26-28. Developer Days are Alliance-organized events 
> established to facilitate porting of targeted applications to Itanium 
> platforms. Software developers receive training, technical assistance, 
> and industry-leading tools from Alliance Founding Sponsors and 
> members. Registration for Developer Days is separate from Gelato ICE 
> registration. Space at Developer Days is limited and available on a 
> first-come, first-served basis. Details can be found at 
> <http://www.itaniumsolutionsalliance.org/events/developer_days/>.
>
> "The Itanium Solutions Alliance is thrilled to be collaborating with 
> Gelato at the Gelato ICE 2006 and Alliance Developer Days events," 
> said Bruce Toal, director of marketing and solutions for Hewlett 
> Packard's High Performance Computing Division. "The combined knowledge 
> and resources of these two industry-leading groups ensures that 
> attendees of both events will receive the best training and 
> information on Linux on Itanium architecture available."
>
> The week-long combination--Gelato ICE 2006 and the collocated Itanium 
> Solutions Alliance Developer Days--will be the year's highpoint for 
> those wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on 
> Itanium architecture. Anyone working with this platform-or thinking 
> about working with the platform-should attend.
>
> About Gelato
> The Gelato Federation is the global technical community dedicated to 
> advancing Linux on the Intel Itanium platform through collaboration, 
> education, and leadership. Gelato members are suppliers and users of 
> Linux/Itanium processor technology with a shared goal of producing 
> open-source solutions for academic, government, and industrial 
> high-performance computing users. The Gelato portal 
> (<http://www.gelato.org>) serves as the primary channel for Federation 
> business and collaborations. Information about Gelato members' 
> software and solutions are available through the portal, and the 
> community is welcome to participate and contribute.
>
> For more information, please contact:
> Nan Holda
> nan at gelato.org
> 217.265.0947
>
> Intel and Itanium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation or 
> its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries. Linux is a 
> registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. All other 
> trademarks mentioned herein are the property of their respective 
> owners.
>
>
> #  #  #
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 6944 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060215/6bdf1ae2/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Wed Feb 15 11:15:43 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:15:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Monday, February 20, sf-lug at the javacat 
Message-ID: <75EFB8D9-9E57-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Mark your calendars, sf-lug at the Javacat
on Geary at 20th Avenue in san francisco:
6:00 PM till 8:00 PM.




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Feb 15 12:21:53 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:21:53 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ANNOUNCE?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?=3A_Registration_Open_for_Gelato_ICE=3A_Itanium?=
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?=AE?= Conference & Expo 2006
In-Reply-To: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060215202153.GA14915@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

>    The link below explains their mission but not how'd
> they come up with the name?

Gee, dunno, ice and Itanic seem to... um... go together.

(Darn, was that my outside voice again?)




From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 16 08:46:18 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:46:18 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Open Fabrics Symposium
Message-ID: <C0896826-9F0B-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


there's something kind of "full circle" about
this (joseph jaquard's loom machine figures
in the history of computing machines, and
here it comes again). Even if no one in sf-lug
wants to pay the $175 early-registration fee,
it seems interesting to know this fabric
software convention will be in SF at Moscone.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Christin Evans" <christine at owenmedia.com>
> Date: February 15, 2006 1:35:36 PM PST
> To: <sfobug at sfobug.org>
> Subject: Open Fabrics Symposium
>
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering if you would post the following information on your  
> event calendar:
>
> The OpenIB Alliance and the InfiniBandSM Trade Association will host  
> the Open Fabrics Symposium on March 6 in San Francisco, from 8.00 a.m.  
> ? 5:30 p.m. The symposium will bring leading fabric developers and  
> users together to discuss the future of fabric computing. Register by  
> February 24 for $175 or after February 25 for $250 at  
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=104352.
>
> I have pasted a news release on this symposium below. Could you send  
> the release to your members?
>
> Christin Evans
> Owen Media
> 206-322-1167 x112
> ChristinE at owenmedia.com
>
>
> For Immediate Release
> Contact:??????????? Marta George
> ??????????????????????? Phone: (503) 222-2545
> ??????????????????????? martag at owenmedia.com
>
> OpenIB Alliance and InfiniBand Trade Association
> Announce the Open Fabrics Symposium March 6, 2006
>
> SAN FRANCISCO, February 14, 2006 ? The OpenIB Alliance and the  
> InfiniBand Trade Association announce the Open Fabrics Symposium, to  
> be held on March 6 in conjunction with the Intel Developer Forum  
> Spring 2006.
>
> The Open Fabrics Symposium will bring leading fabric developers and  
> users together to discuss the future of fabric computing, including  
> RDMA architectures in grid computing, virtualization and storage in  
> RDMA interconnects. The Symposium is targeted at CTOs, CIOs,  
> technologists, product managers, engineers, software and corporate  
> developers and anyone working inside or around datacenters. Attendees  
> will also learn about the usage of mainstream open source software  
> stacks that leverage the benefits of Remote Direct Memory Access  
> (RDMA) architectures across Linux and Windows.
>
> The Symposium will be held at Moscone West in San Francisco on March   
> 6, 2006 from 8.00a.m ? 5:30p.m., with a reception to follow.
>
> To register
> Register by February 24 and pay only $175. On February 25 the rate  
> goes up to $250. Register at  
> http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=104352
>
> The Symposium agenda is available at  
> http://www.openib.org/conference/spring2006openfabrics/ 
> openfabrics_agenda.doc
>
> About OpenIB Alliance
> The OpenIB Alliance is an industry association chartered to deliver a  
> single, open-source Linux-based and Windows-based software stack for  
> deploying InfiniBand. Founded in June 2004, the OpenIB Alliance is  
> comprised of technology vendors and end-user organizations including:  
> Appro; Cisco Systems, Inc.; Data Direct Networks, Inc.; Dell; Engenio  
> Information Technologies, Inc.; Intel; Lawrence Livermore National  
> Laboratory; Los Alamos National Laboratory; Linux Networx; Mellanox  
> Technologies; Network Appliance; Oracle Corporation; PathScale;  
> Rackable Systems; Sandia National Laboratories; Silicon Graphics;  
> SilverStorm Technologies; Sun Microsystems, Inc.; Tyan Computer;  
> Veritas Software; and Voltaire. More information about the OpenIB  
> Alliance is available at www.openib.org.
>
> About InfiniBand Trade Association
> InfiniBand is an industry-standard interconnect technology defined by  
> the InfiniBand Trade Association for the purpose of delivering  
> exceptional I/O fabric performance demanded by data centers,  
> high-performance computing, and embedded environments. Today,  
> InfiniBand solutions provide high-bandwidth, low-latency 10 and 20Gb/s  
> server-to-server and server-to-storage connections, and 30Gb/s and  
> 60Gb/s switch-to-switch connections with a defined roadmap to 120Gb/s  
> performance. InfiniBand architecture standardizes  
> remote-direct-memory-access (RDMA) and 100% reliable  
> transport?hallmark capabilities for the industry?s lowest latency,  
> highest bandwidth network or fabric available today.
>
> With the InfiniBand industry delivering affordable server, storage,  
> and network platforms, open-source, interoperable software stacks,  
> cluster, grid, storage and virtualization solutions, InfiniBand is the  
> optimal fabric technology for world-class computing.
>
> ###
>
> InfiniBand(TM/SM) is a trademark and service mark of the InfiniBand  
> Trade Association.? Other names and brands are the property of their  
> respective owners.
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 7431 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060216/7d507923/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 16 08:57:49 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:57:49 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] YAJO (yet another job opportunity) 
In-Reply-To: <E58D4CF84BDB0149BC32762628000CD70A4B71D2@exchange2.monster1.com>
References: <E58D4CF84BDB0149BC32762628000CD70A4B71D2@exchange2.monster1.com>
Message-ID: <5C6C17D8-9F0D-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>



On Feb 15, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Aaron Baalbergen wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
>  I found the SF LUG website while looking for places to post a job 
> opportunity for someone experienced with Linux.? Would it be 
> appropriate to send the opportunity out over the mailing list?
>
>  I am including the posting below.? If the mailing list would be an 
> appropriate posting location, please either send it out to your 
> members or let me know so that I can join and send it out.? Thank you.
>
>  Aaron
>
>  ****
>  Monster Cable is building a revolutionary new set top box that 
> incorporates a media server/player, PVR, and whole-house automation.? 
> The product has already been developed; all the back-end coding is 
> done.? We have partnerships and distribution in place.? Now we need to 
> assemble a top-notch team to work on the user interface and usability, 
> the design and sound, and also quality assurance and focus groups, 
> working out of our offices near SFO airport.? We are very committed to 
> this product and want to get the best team possible so that users bond 
> with our product like they do with iPod or TiVo.
>
>  Because we want to get our first version out the door in 8 months, 
> our team will initially be working a lot with outside consultants and 
> contractors.? After the first version is out we will likely want to do 
> more of the work in-house, relying less on outside consultants.
>
>  We need a linux guru with expertise in embedded systems.? The 
> hardware platform is an embedded Linux set top box, much like a TiVo.? 
> We have a strong team of C++ developers already in another office.? 
> What we need in this office is someone who can work with the hardware 
> engineers to resolve any software/driver issues and do 
> troubleshooting.
>
>  We are looking for ambitious, senior-level team players.? We will 
> provide good compensation and benefits.? Both working as an employee 
> as well as a freelancer are options, although employees are 
> preferred.? And, since this is a totally new division for Monster, 
> it?s a chance to get in on the ground floor and have a real impact, 
> while at the same time have the comfort of working with a 
> well-established, highly profitable, 28-year old company.
>
>  Please contact Aaron Baalbergen at abaalbergen at monstercable.com if 
> you are interested.? Emails should include "Job Opportunities" in the 
> subject line.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2518 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060216/dfd7aea4/attachment.bin>

From hariharan_sam at yahoo.co.in  Thu Feb 16 13:08:51 2006
From: hariharan_sam at yahoo.co.in (Hariharan Sankaranarayanan)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:08:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9
Message-ID: <20060216210852.37369.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com>

Anyone aware of Linux kernel Training centres in and around Bay Area ? Kindly let know.

  -H

				
---------------------------------
 Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket
Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060216/7939444a/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sat Feb 18 09:37:55 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:37:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: New Ubuntu and Perl books available from O'Reilly
	Rough Cuts
Message-ID: <4B3C77DE-A0A5-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
> Date: February 16, 2006 8:36:02 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: New Ubuntu and Perl books available from O'Reilly Rough Cuts
>
> Hello,
>
> Just wanted to let you know about these brand new Rough Cuts titles
> available from O'Reilly:
>
>
> Perl Hacks
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/index.html
>
> Ubuntu Hacks
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ubuntuhks/index.html
>
> Ajax Design Patterns
> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxdp/index.html
>
>
> Rough Cuts is a new service that gives you early access to content on
> cutting-edge technologies months before it's published. Other titles
> include "Ajax Hacks," "Flickr Hacks," "Ruby Cookbook," "Ruby on Rails,"
> and "Java and XML, 3rd Edition."
>
> For more information, go to:
> http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Marsee
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly
> 1005 Gravenstein Highway North
> Sebastopol, CA   95472
> http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
> ================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1350 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060218/620804c5/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Sat Feb 18 13:47:13 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:47:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific) 
Message-ID: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at
the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco.

How'm'soever:
    A few people have brought up the idea of meetings
more generally: more meetings, other meeting times,
other places....
    There's always my place--I've got several computers,
at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on
demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and
new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available
to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work
collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio).
    There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe
other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which
are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood),
maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe
even your house? And other times. For me, for now,
weekday mornings work great, as do occasional
Tuesday or Thursday evenings.
    Holler if you want alternatives: send your email
to the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe
we'll get some discussion, even agreement.
jim




From sverma at sfsu.edu  Sun Feb 19 00:55:01 2006
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:55:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific)
In-Reply-To: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu>

jim stockford wrote:

>
>    Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at
> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco.
>
> How'm'soever:
>    A few people have brought up the idea of meetings
> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times,
> other places....
>    There's always my place--I've got several computers,
> at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on
> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and
> new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available
> to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work
> collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio).
>    There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe
> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which
> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood),
> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe
> even your house? And other times. For me, for now,
> weekday mornings work great, as do occasional
> Tuesday or Thursday evenings.
>    Holler if you want alternatives: send your email
> to the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe
> we'll get some discussion, even agreement.
> jim

I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been
to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI
M-line.

Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From jim at well.com  Sun Feb 19 08:17:03 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:17:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific)
In-Reply-To: <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu>
References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu>
Message-ID: <29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Anybody interested in meeting at SF State on
19th and Holloway at any particular time
(probably evening)? For now this would be an
additional meeting, alternating with the Javacat
meetings.

    Most people who've joined the sf-lug mailing
list seem to be lurkers--relatively few come to
the Javacat. There are a few who used to come
and now don't. A couple have complained of
parking hassles, the only downside to the
javacat.
    I suspect that a different few people would
come to a meeting at a different time and place.
I'd be willing to make the trek, just to be sure
someone's there.


On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Sameer Verma wrote:

> jim stockford wrote:
>
>>
>>    Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at
>> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco.
>>
>> How'm'soever:
>>    A few people have brought up the idea of meetings
>> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times,
>> other places....
>>    There's always my place--I've got several computers,
>> at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on
>> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and
>> new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available
>> to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work
>> collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio).
>>    There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe
>> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which
>> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood),
>> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe
>> even your house? And other times. For me, for now,
>> weekday mornings work great, as do occasional
>> Tuesday or Thursday evenings.
>>    Holler if you want alternatives: send your email
>> to the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe
>> we'll get some discussion, even agreement.
>> jim
>
> I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been
> to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI
> M-line.
>
> Sameer
>
> -- 
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Asst. Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 10:10:35 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific)
In-Reply-To: <29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu>
	<29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <528b20610602191010o426095b0pe1f94ba436122f05@mail.gmail.com>

I could make that no problem.

On 2/19/06, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
>     Anybody interested in meeting at SF State on
> 19th and Holloway at any particular time
> (probably evening)? For now this would be an
> additional meeting, alternating with the Javacat
> meetings.
>
>     Most people who've joined the sf-lug mailing
> list seem to be lurkers--relatively few come to
> the Javacat. There are a few who used to come
> and now don't. A couple have complained of
> parking hassles, the only downside to the
> javacat.
>     I suspect that a different few people would
> come to a meeting at a different time and place.
> I'd be willing to make the trek, just to be sure
> someone's there.
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Sameer Verma wrote:
>
> > jim stockford wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>    Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at
> >> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco.
> >>
> >> How'm'soever:
> >>    A few people have brought up the idea of meetings
> >> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times,
> >> other places....
> >>    There's always my place--I've got several computers,
> >> at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on
> >> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and
> >> new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available
> >> to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work
> >> collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio).
> >>    There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe
> >> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which
> >> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood),
> >> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe
> >> even your house? And other times. For me, for now,
> >> weekday mornings work great, as do occasional
> >> Tuesday or Thursday evenings.
> >>    Holler if you want alternatives: send your email
> >> to the sf-lug at linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe
> >> we'll get some discussion, even agreement.
> >> jim
> >
> > I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been
> > to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI
> > M-line.
> >
> > Sameer
> >
> > --
> > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> > Asst. Professor of Information Systems
> > San Francisco State University
> > San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> > http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060219/eefa5114/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 23 08:04:13 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:04:13 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Balug-talk] PenLUG tomorrow!! Topic: PHP (TONIGHT) 
Message-ID: <08A20EBD-A486-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Here's something from the balug bunch:
>
> WHO: Jack Herrington
> WHAT: PHP Application Development Fundamentals, with a few tips and
> tricks thrown in
> WHEN: Thursday, Feb. 23, 7-9pm
> WHERE: Open Country, 1301 Shoreway Rd Suite 211, Belmont, CA 94002
> WHY: To learn and socialize with other fans of Linux and open source
>
> NEW LOCATION: Note that since last month we are now meeting at the
> offices of Open Country in Belmont, who are also graciously providing
> us with FREE FOOD and BEVERAGES so bring your appetite as well.
>
> NEW ROOM: We will be meeting in a new, larger room, in a different
> part of the building from last month.  Be sure to pay attention to
> directions given at the entrance when you arrive.
>
> Our topic is "PHP" and the scheduled speaker is Jack Herrington,
> author of several books including "PHP Hacks" from O'Reilly.  Jack
> says: "I'll cover the basics of PHP; how it works, the fundamentals of
> the syntax and the language design. Then I'll cover how to develop
> robust web applications using the built-in functions and objects, as
> well as libraries freely available through the PEAR network. Time will
> be left at the end of the presentation for questions and answers."
>
> Jack Herrington is an software engineer and author. He has written
> three books; Code Generation in Action, Podcasting Hacks and PHP
> Hacks. He writes a PHP series on IBM's Developerworks site, as well as
> articles on a variety of topics for other sources. He also podcasts
> for O'Reilly and edits the Code Generation Network. He lives in Union
> City, California with his wife Lori, daughter Megan, and dogs Oso and
> Sadie. In his spare time Jack reviews technology books and is ranked
> the #150 reviewer in the world on Amazon.com.
>
> RSVP: not required, but send a note to rsvp at penlug.org if you can, so
> we have an idea of how many people to expect.
>
>
> --
> Help bring back the San Jose Earthquakes - 
> http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/
> _______________________________________________
> balug-talk mailing list
> balug-talk at lists.balug.org
> http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org
>




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 23 08:10:59 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:10:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax,
	Crafting a great user experience.
Message-ID: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com>

This might be interesting.

Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com> wrote:  To: <nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com>, <new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com>
From: Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800
Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great
 user experience.

          Hi All Wowser?s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.    Mon., Feb. 27,
  6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA
  
  Designing for Ajax
  
  Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present:
  Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax.
  
  Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich Internet
  Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on the web
  with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns. These patterns form a
  vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these patterns
  are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the prevalence of
  Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns and
  design caveats.
  
  This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding of >>>
  more: 
  http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=&eventdesc=full
  
  Location:
  Expression Center for New Media
  6601 Shellmound St
  Classroom 300
  Emeryville, CA 94608
  
  
  Preregister: http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=
  Walk-ins accepted
  
  SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.  Send your URL to Cate at:
  webdev at eBig.org.
  
  6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration
  7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions
  7:15-8:30 Presentation
  8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes!
  
  We are always looking for great speakers.  Contact us if you would like to
  speak.
  Web Development SIG
  The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at
  Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, group
  discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of usable
  and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and the
  supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful
  observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these digital
  devises and how people interface with them.
  
  Be well,
  
  Cate Calson
  Chair, WebDev-Design Group
  http://www.eBig.org
  
  
  --------------------------
  http://www.CalsonGraphics.com
  Web/Graphic Design Services
  [  burn bright   ]
  [ it's your right ]
  --------------------------
  
  
            

    Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html  

                      

          SPONSORED LINKS    
                                                        Computer internet security                                          Computer internet business                                          Computer internet access                                                                          Computer internet privacy securities                                          Computer internet help                                          Computer internet connection                                                                             
        
---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  
  
      
    Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
     
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
     
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  
  
      
---------------------------------
  
  
          
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060223/58c0dc1a/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 23 08:37:25 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:37:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax,
	Crafting a great user experience.
In-Reply-To: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ABDF9216-A48A-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Thanks. If I can go, you wanna ride with me?
Should I do the following up to present some
kind of linux talk or are you my advocate with
the WOWsers?

    Say, are we on for tonight (I'm just assuming
maybe because of previous dates)?
    There's the PHP talk tonight down the
peninsula; i might go to that. You and I could
meet at 6 for a bit, then me drive you home or
we both go check out the talk.

More thanks for the note,
jim
415 823 4590


On Feb 23, 2006, at 8:10 AM, vincent polite wrote:

> This might be interesting.
>
> Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com> wrote:
>  To: <nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com>, <new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com>
> From: Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com>
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800
> Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great
>  user experience.
>
>  Hi All Wowser?s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.??? Mon.,  
> Feb. 27,
>  6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA
>
>  Designing for Ajax
>
>  Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present:
>  Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax.
>
>  Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich  
> Internet
>  Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on  
> the web
>  with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns  
> form a
>  vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these  
> patterns
>  are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the  
> prevalence of
>  Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns  
> and
>  design caveats.
>
>  This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding  
> of >>>
>  more:
>   
> http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx? 
> SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=&eventdesc=full
>
>  Location:
>  Expression Center for New Media
>  6601 Shellmound St
>  Classroom 300
>  Emeryville, CA 94608
>
>
>  Preregister:  
> http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=
>  Walk-ins accepted
>
>  SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.? Send your URL to Ca!  
> te at:
>  webdev at eBig.org.
>
>  6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration
>  7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions
>  7:15-8:30 Presentation
>  8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes!
>
>  We are always looking for great speakers.? Contact us if you would  
> like to
>  speak.
>  Web Development SIG
>  The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at
>  Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers,  
> group
>  discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of  
> usable
>  and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and  
> the
>  supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful
>  observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these  
> digital
>  devises and how people interface with them.
>
>  Be well,
>
>  Cate Calson
>  Chair, WebDev-Design Group
> http://www.eBig.org
>
>  !
>  --------------------------
> http://www.CalsonGraphics.com
>  Web/Graphic Design Services
>  [? burn bright?? ]
>  [ it's your right ]
>  --------------------------
>
>
>
>
>  Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event)  
> (intro) (job) (tech)
>  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
>  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or  
> http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>  !
>
>  Computer internet security
> Computer internet business
> Computer internet access
>
> Computer internet privacy securities
>  !  Computer internet help
> Computer internet connection
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> 	? 	?Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
> ?
>
> 	? 	?To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ?new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ?
>
> 	? 	?Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 6045 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060223/713c659f/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 23 11:02:29 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:02:29 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax,
	Crafting a great user experience.
Message-ID: <F016BFD4-A49E-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


This coming Monday evening in Emoryville...
Thanks to Vince for this info!


Begin forwarded message:

> From: vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>
> Date: February 23, 2006 8:10:59 AM PST
> To: "sf-lug at virgilsoftware.com" <sf-lug at virgilsoftware.com>,  
> "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax,  
> Crafting a great user experience.
>
> This might be interesting.
>
> Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com> wrote:
>  To: <nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com>, <new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com>
> From: Cate <ccal at calsongraphics.com>
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800
> Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great
>  user experience.
>
>  Hi All Wowser?s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.??? Mon.,  
> Feb. 27,
>  6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA
>
>  Designing for Ajax
>
>  Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present:
>  Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax.
>
>  Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich  
> Internet
>  Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on  
> the web
>  with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns  
> form a
>  vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these  
> patterns
>  are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the  
> prevalence of
>  Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns  
> and
>  design caveats.
>
>  This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding  
> of >>>
>  more:
>   
> http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx? 
> SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=&eventdesc=full
>
>  Location:
>  Expression Center for New Media
>  6601 Shellmound St
>  Classroom 300
>  Emeryville, CA 94608
>
>
>  Preregister:  
> http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=
>  Walk-ins accepted
>
>  SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.? Send your URL to Ca!  
> te at:
>  webdev at eBig.org.
>
>  6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration
>  7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions
>  7:15-8:30 Presentation
>  8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes!
>
>  We are always looking for great speakers.? Contact us if you would  
> like to
>  speak.
>  Web Development SIG
>  The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at
>  Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers,  
> group
>  discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of  
> usable
>  and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and  
> the
>  supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful
>  observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these  
> digital
>  devises and how people interface with them.
>
>  Be well,
>
>  Cate Calson
>  Chair, WebDev-Design Group
> http://www.eBig.org
>
>  !
>  --------------------------
> http://www.CalsonGraphics.com
>  Web/Graphic Design Services
>  [? burn bright?? ]
>  [ it's your right ]
>  --------------------------
>
>
>
>
>  Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event)  
> (intro) (job) (tech)
>  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
>  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or  
> http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>  !
>
>  Computer internet security
> Computer internet business
> Computer internet access
>
> Computer internet privacy securities
>  !  Computer internet help
> Computer internet connection
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> 	? 	?Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
> ?
>
> 	? 	?To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> ?new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> ?
>
> 	? 	?Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of  
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 6164 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060223/6834e9fb/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 23 12:17:26 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:17:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sybase wants to give us stuff 
Message-ID: <68064474-A4A9-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


(I, jim, will send Patrick my home address and after
his package arrives send email and bring all the
booty to the subsequent meeting.)

Hello,
I am sending this note to offer to you and your User
Group some promotional items to give away at your
next User Group meeting.
My name is Patrick Enright and I manage Sybase's
WorldWide Developer Programs.
http://www.sybase.com/developer

I would like to send you a package of software, Journals,
diagrams & tshirts that you can give to your members for
attending your next meeting.
I am interested in spreading the word of Sybase on Linux
and that is why Iam reaching out to the User Groups
directly.
You can feel free to sign up for the Sybase
Developer Network at the link above and kick the tires
of all of Sybase's software.

I would also add that within the Sybase Developer Network
we have a community-based development environment called
CodeXchange, sf-lug members are more than welcome to visit
that site to view other folks contributions and if they
like, even start their own projects.
Please provide me a shipping address to send the box of
items and I will send them to you.
In addition, if you ever would like a speaker and/or
additional content for your meetings I can certainly
provide that for you as well.
Sincerely,
Patrick Enright
Patrick.Enright at sybase.com
202.256.8054




From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 23 12:25:34 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:25:34 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] RedHat and Fedora news, Nashville summit, roadshow 
Message-ID: <8B459EFE-A4AA-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


(I, jim, like RedHat fairly well.
* I'll answer his questions about our group as best
I can--feel free to do so, too, if you wish, or tell me
what to say. Fedora Core 5 looks full of stuff--can
anybody explain what's real good about Mono?
It has something to do with Microsoft, so I hate it,
but sometimes I'm wrong.
* I think I'm definitely going to the May Nashville
summit--May is bar-b-que time in the old south,
especially in Tennessee; I hope to make it to the
various cookout contests.
* As to the proposed roadshow, it makes best sense
to me that the various Northern California LUGs get
together to coordinate a single, common roadshow
event. What do you think?

-------------here's greg's (fairly long) message-------------

Hi.  My name is Greg DeKoenigsberg.  I work for Red Hat.
I've got some news for you, and I've also got a favor
to ask. On to the purpose of my note.  It's threefold:

1. I'd like to let you know about current goings-on in Fedora.
2. I'd like to let you know about the Red Hat Summit.
3. I'd like to ask for your input about a possible Fedora roadshow.

===

First, Fedora.  There's been a lot of work going on in
the Fedora community; some of it you might know about,
and some of it you might not know about.

We're getting ready to release Fedora Core 5 in the next
couple of months. It's been the culmination of a
particularly long release cycle, as we change the way
that we do some things at a deep level.  Some of the more
visible features:

* Modular X, anaconda changes, more Xen code and some
XGL-ish stuff;
* New GNOME, new OpenOffice, new Firefox and more,
pulling all the latest from upstream projects;

* New Mono-based applications, including Beagle, Tomboy
and F-Spot.

We've also got a bunch of community initiatives going,
and we're ramping up even more:

* Fedora Extras.  The community-led Extras project,
which launched officially last February, is now
maintaining over 3000 software packages in yum
repositories mirrored worldwide.  The number of
available packages continues to grow -- as does the
number of contributors.  Learn more at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras.

* Fedora Documentation.  The Docs project is producing
release notes, HOWTOs and other crucial documentation
to help Fedora users make the most out of Fedora.
All of the documentation is available under the OPL
with no restrictions.  Learn more at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject.

* Fedora Ambassadors.  As the open source story
continues to grow stronger, we're looking for more
and more people to tell that story.  The Ambassadors
project provides people with the information and
tools to spread the story far and wide, from
presentation decks to T-shirts to Fedora DVDs.
Learn more at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors.

* Fedora Mentors.  It can be difficult to "get started"
in the world of open source development, and sometimes
the most important thing is just to know that someone
will answer your stupid questions without giving you a
lot of heat.  The Mentors project seeks knowledgeable
developers who can give a couple of hours a week on IRC
to help the newbies along.  Learn more at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors.

With more projects coming online all the time, there's
never been a better chance to be involved in the future
of Fedora.  For general information about how to get '
involved, spend some time at
http://fedoraproject.org.

===

Second, the Red Hat Summit.  This is basically a
straight-up sales pitch:
come join us in Nashville from May 30 - June 2, 2006.  Specifically for 
LUG members, the cost of attendance is
$699,
which includes a hotel room for four nights, meals,
and attendance at the Red Hat sessions and evening
entertainment events.  It's a unique opportunity to meet
some of the real luminaries of the open source world
firsthand, and to talk with them about their areas
of deep knowledge.  For those of you who are accustomed
to attending these sorts of events, you will realize
that this price is a *very* good deal.  Lots of
technical sessions, lots of fun. You can find the full
track list at
http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/tracks.

So why is the LUG deal so good?  The deal for regular
business types is basically $500 more.  The deep price
break is because we want to see community people there.
Despite the fact that we're making a little money now,
we can't afford to bring people to Nashville and put
them up for nothing -- but we can at least give some
deep discounts to our friends. That's you.

You are important, and if you can figure out how to
make it there, we definitely want you there.  Feel
free to contact me for more information, or go to
the Summit site at
http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit.

===

Third, I'd like to gauge your interest in a Fedora
roadshow.

As I mentioned before, Fedora Core 5 is scheduled for
release in late March.  (Or maybe later -- you know
how these things go.)  We're looking to put together
a tour sometime between FUDCon Boston 2006 (April 7th)
and the Red Hat Summit, and I'd like to hear if you'd
be interested in having a Fedora presentation at
your LUG.

There's obviously a huge number of LUGs and a fairly
limited number of dates, and we'd have to figure out
how to make such a tour work. Therefore, if you are
interested in a Fedora visit, here's what I'll need
to know:

* How many people do you generally get at your LUG?

* What meeting times/dates are available for you in
April or May?  Are you limited to the LUG meeting days,
or would you be willing to call a special session?

* What general Fedora-related topics might you want
to hear about more in-depth?

I'll be happy to field responses, and if we get enough
interest, we'll start planning a tour in earnest in
the next couple of weeks.

===

So, that's it.  Thanks for reading through this whole
long letter.  Feel free to drop me a line at
gdk at redhat.com if you have any questions. Looking
forward to hearing from you.

--g




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 23 15:16:40 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:16:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Look what I found...
Message-ID: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com>

Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina  Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..)  http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060223/2a6e00e8/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 23 15:32:58 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:32:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Me again..This is funny...
Message-ID: <20060223233258.12540.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com>

Checkout the penguin at the bottom of the page...http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060223/67ebfb8e/attachment.html>

From einfeldt at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 14:20:45 2006
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:20:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found...
In-Reply-To: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Vince,

On 2/23/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina
> Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..)
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
>

Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open source
software.  In the future, most software will be downloaded from sites like
that, once the digital tipping point happens.  ibiblio is one example of
what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen calls a disruptive
channel.  As open source disrupts Microsoft's business model, the drop in
Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in the income of some of the channels
that are part of the Microsoft business hub, IMHO.  To me, this change in
the industry is one of the most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping
point, because it will result in a widespread alteration of the way that we
interact with each other.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060224/a64119b4/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sat Feb 25 10:37:06 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:37:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found...
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B8A1900E-A62D-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping
point film documenting the open source
phenomenon. Their web site has some
great info and links:
http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/


On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:

> Hi Vince,
>
> On 2/23/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina 
> Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) 
> http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
>
>
>  Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open 
> source software.? In the future, most software will be downloaded from 
> sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens.? ibiblio is 
> one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen 
> calls a disruptive channel.? As open source disrupts Microsoft's 
> business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in 
> the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft 
> business hub, IMHO.? To me, this change in the industry is one of the 
> most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will 
> result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with 
> each other.
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1462 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060225/4e495c00/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Sat Feb 25 11:07:14 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:07:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] check out the prototype sf-lug web site 
Message-ID: <EE88044C-A631-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Check out our prototype, under construction web
site pages.
    First see
http://www.sf-lug.org
Second scroll to the bottom of the page.
Third click the test link to see the prototype of the
revised sf-lug.org web page(s).

    All members are welcome to contribute to this
project (good for developing your resume or feeling
good about helping out or...).
    Send an email request to jim at well.com for an ssh
login account (sf?lug members can have ssh login
accounts for any reasonable reason). The host is
CentOS-based, which is build from RedHat Enterprise
Linux 4 source code.

    Many thanks to Vincent Polite and Mark Summer
for their work on this prototype web page. Vince has
done the design, Mark wrote the code to update the
meeting date info.

    Vince is one of the founding members of sf-lug
and specializes in web design:
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/

    Mark is one of the honchos of Inveneo:
http://www.inveneo.org/
which designs, builds, and delivers highly reliable,
low power, low cost computer systems for remote
regions: "solutions worldwide that are open,
sustainable and affordable."
    They are always looking for volunteers. The
technologies they deal with range from software to
Debian Linux systems to computer hardware
components to wi-fi to VoIP to low-energy power
sources....
    If you want to develop your techie resume, consider
volunteering with this group: their team is high quality
and they have real credibility in the industry.




From jim at well.com  Sun Feb 26 07:39:37 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:39:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, February 24
Message-ID: <1838252E-A6DE-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>


A lot of info in this, a lot of it interesting

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
> Date: February 24, 2006 2:58:30 PM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, February 24
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders
> February 24, 2006
> ================================================================
> -Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design group?
> -RSS Feed Now Available on ug.oreilly.com
> -Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share?
> -Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book
> -Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book
> -Promotional Material Available
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Book Info
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Review Books are Available
> Copies of our books are available for your members to review--
> send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on
> your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date.
> Allow at least four weeks for shipping.
>
>
> ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews
> Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review.
> For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>
>
> ***Discount Information
> Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on
> O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf,
> SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG.
>
> ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available
> Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in
> touch with our sales department.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> General News or Inquiries
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design Group?
> We are looking for creative groups or associations to join our
> program. Feel free to pass my name along or send me an email.
>
> ***RSS Feed now available on the ug.oreilly.com
> To sign up, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/>
>
> For more information on RSS or Atom Feeds at O'Reilly, go to:
> <http://oreillynet.com/feeds/>
>
> ***Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share?
> We can include it in the news section of our user group page and RSS
> Feed. Send me a short description and a URL.
>
> ***Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book
> We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
> web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
> O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the
> O'Reilly book of your choice.
>
> ETech Banners:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/etech/>
>
> ***Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book
> We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their
> web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our
> MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book
> of your choice.
>
> MySQL Users Conference:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/banners/mysql/>
>
> ***Promotional Material Available:
> The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know  
> the
> item and the amount you'd like):
>
> -Photoshop World Expo Passes, MIami, FL--March 23 (print or PDF
>  available)
> -MAKE Magazine Volume 5 (limit one copy per group)
> -30% UG Discount bookmarks
> -ETech Conference brochures <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
> -MySQL Conference brochures <http://www.mysqluc.com/>
> -Where 2.0 Conference brochures <http://conferences.oreilly.com/where/>
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly News for User Group Members
> February 24, 2006
> ================================================================
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Book News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-On
> -Analyzing Business Data with Excel
> -Building Extreme PCs
> -Degunking Your Home
> -DJ Handbook, Second Edition
> -DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish
> -Fixing Access Annoyances
> -Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances
> -Flickr Hacks
> -How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004
> -Learning C# 2005, Second Edition
> -Logic Pro Tips and Tricks
> -Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition
> -The Mac Tiger Server Black Book
> -MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05
> -Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook
> -Programming SQL Server 2005
> -Repairing and Upgrading Your PC
> -Security Log Management
> -VB 2005 Black Book
> -Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition
> -Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition
> -Web Site Cookbook
> -Wicked Cool Perl Scripts
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Upcoming Events
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers
>  Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24
> -O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow,
>  Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1
> -O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27
> -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar,
>  Orlando, FL--March 1
> -Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson,
>  Pacifica, CA--March 9-12
> -O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14
> -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006,
>  San Diego, CA--March 15
> -RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson,
>  Pacifica, CA--March 18
> -Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage,
>  Corte Madera, CA--March 18
> -Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22
> -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar,
>  San Francisco, CA--March 21
> -Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Conference News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -Where 2.0 Registration is Open
> -MySQL Registration is Open
> -ETech Registration is Open
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> News
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> -A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots
> -Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment
> -Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology
> -Latest Titles available on O'Reilly Rough Cuts
> -Introducing Lua
> -Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster
> -Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble
> -What's New in iWork '06?
> -Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV
> -Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2
> -Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3
> -A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned
> -O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course
> -Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First
> -Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS
> -Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each
>  Other's Toys
> -Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting
>  Differently
> -Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear  
> and
>  How to Avoid and Fix Errors
> -Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost
> -O'Reilly Photography Learning Center
> -Speak Your Mind on Digital Media
> -Calling All Makers!
> -Meet Your Fellow Makers
>
> ================================================
> Book News
> ================================================
> Did you know you can request a free book to review for your
> group? Ask your group leader for more information.
>
> For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to:
> <http://ug.oreilly.com/bookreviews.html>
>
> Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch,
> Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress
> book you purchase directly from O'Reilly.
> Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/>
>
> ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at
> least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer
> applies to US delivery addresses in the fifty states and Puerto Rico.
> For more details, go to:
> <http://www.oreilly.com/news/freeshipping_0703.html>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> New Releases
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-One
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100973
> This unique, hands-on book comes with two hours of video instruction
> (hosted by Deke McClelland himself) on DVD to get you working with
> InDesign right away, building relevant, real-world projects while
> mastering fundamental and advanced concepts, theory, best practices,
> and techniques for making the most of InDesign--to make the most of
> your page designs.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/adobeindesign2/>
>
> ***Analyzing Business Data with Excel
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100736
> Learn how to apply Excel's advanced data analysis features to solve
> real-world business problems. This hands-on reference targets specific
> business situations, then demonstrates how to create spreadsheets for
> these problem areas. Topics include statistics, pivot tables, workload
> forecasting, modeling, queuing, data importing, and more. Perfect for
> professional Excel users working in an office environment.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/analyzingbdwe/>
>
> ***Building Extreme PCs
> The Complete Guide to Modding and Custom PCs
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101368
> "Building Extreme PCs" is the ultimate guide to the world of PC
> modification and customization. Both a showcase and a DIY handbook, it
> goes in-depth into system building, overclocking, cooling, and
> modification, reveals the secrets of optimization and benchmarking,  
> then
> moves on to cover some of the most exciting and inspirational
> custom built systems around. From silent systems to multi-processor
> monsters, from gaming powerhouses to neon-lit speed machines, this book
> has it all, complete with guidance from the people who made them.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/buildpcs/>
>
> ***Degunking Your Home
> Publisher: Paraglyph Press
> January 2006
> ISBN: 1933097116
> Do you find yourself in one or more of these situations--you're
> constantly losing your car keys, the "junk" room has threatened to take
> over your house, or you can't remember the last time you could quickly
> find something in the garage? Then you need to get organized quickly  
> and
> degunk! Author Joli Ballew will show you how simple it is to declutter,
> organize, make your home really work for you, and keep it looking great
> with her easy and time-saving 12-step program. Even if you have a busy
> and hectic life, you can keep your home organized and clean.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097116/>
>
> ***DJ Handbook, Second Edition
> Publisher: PC Publishing
> ISBN: 1870775996
> Written by a working DJ who's been there and done that, "The DJ  
> Handbook"
> is an essential read for every DJ. You'll find advice on choosing
> equipment (microphones, decks, cartridges, headphones, speakers,  and  
> the
> rest), as well as setting it all up and getting the best sound out of
> it--whatever the venue. Plus hands-on advice on transport, setting up
> your sound system at the gig, dealing with punters, looking after  
> safety,
> and troubleshooting your equipment.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1870775996/>
>
> ***DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596008481
> Written in an engaging, accessible style, "DV Filmmaking" provides a  
> solid
> foundation of tremendous value to a beginner, while addressing the fine
> points of filmmaking with a level of sophistication, detail, and  
> insight
> that even the most worldly director or educator can appreciate. The
> author draws upon his years of experience teaching at the college and
> graduate level, his extensive professional background as a media
> producer, and his unmistakable love of cinema to create a text that's
> not only easy to learn from, but also fun to read.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dvfilmmaking/>
>
> ***Fixing Access Annoyances
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 059600852X
> Access is one of the easier and more flexible database management
> solutions for organizing data. You could grab other books for help, but
> do they solve problems from page one? Meet a book of a different stripe
> where newcomers start off right and learn valuable methods for building
> databases while seasoned pros gain efficiency. "Fixing Access  
> Annoyances"
> saves time and bouts of hair pulling.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accessannoy/>
>
> ***Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100043
> Microsoft PowerPoint is the most popular presentation software on the
> planet. Since an estimated 30 million PowerPoint presentations are made
> every day, no matter how frustrating it gets, you're not about to
> chuck the program in the recycle bin. If you're vexed and perplexed by
> PowerPoint, this new guide presents a variety of all-too-familiar,
> real-world annoyances and smart solutions for every one of them.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/powerpointannoy/>
>
> ***Flickr Hacks
> ISBN: 0596102453
> "Flickr Hacks" expands the fun and the utility of Flickr, Yahoo!'s  
> popular
> digital photo-sharing service, by customizing this cutting-edge
> technology to store, sort, and share photos. The book adopts the
> game-like appeal of the Flickr site, in individual projects ranging  
> from
> easy to advanced. Quick hacks show you how to post photos directly to
> blogs and upload photos from a cellphone. Advanced hacks teach you to
> use the Flickr API, make photo puzzles and collages, and geocode photos
> to plot on a map.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flickrhks/>
>
> ***How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004
> ISBN: 1597490571
> If deploying and managing ISA Server 2004 is just one of a hundred
> responsibilities you have as a System Administrator, "How to Cheat at
> Configuring ISA Server 2004" is the perfect book for you. Written by
> Microsoft MVP Dr. Tom Shinder, this is a concise, accurate, enterprise
> tested method for the successful deployment of an ISA Server.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490571/>
>
> ***Learning C# 2005, Second Edition
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596102097
> Completely revised to cover C# 2.0 and Visual Basic 2005, this
> introductory guide offers a thorough introduction to Microsoft's  
> premier
> .NET language. Discover how to develop various kinds of web services  
> and
> applications--including those that work with databases. More than 200
> questions and programming exercises make mastering the essentials of  
> the
> C# language easy and fun.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/learncsharp2/>
>
> ***Logic Pro Tips and Tricks
> Publisher: PC Publishing
> ISBN: 1870775333
> The tips and tricks in this book are laid out in an easy to use format,
> and will allow you to get the best from the program when recording,
> editing, mixing, and mastering. There are sections on setting up,
> optimizing, and organizing your workflow. You'll discover easy ways to
> perform many complex tasks, and there's a plethora of other tips and
> pointers that reveal many of Logic's 'hidden' functions.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1870775333/>
>
> ***Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition
> Publisher: Paraglyph Press
> ISBN: 193309706X
> "Looking Good in Print" is celebrating fifteen years in print with the
> newest edition "Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition." This book has
> grown over the years to become the "Bible" for desktop publishers and
> it is widely used as the leading text for courses on desktop  
> publishing.
> This new edition is updated and expanded to reflect the growing needs  
> of
> desktop publishers who need to be proficient at creating documents
> for both print and electronic publication and distribution.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/193309706X/>
>
> ***The Mac Tiger Server Little Black Book
> Publisher: Paraglyph Press
> ISBN: 1933097140
> This unique black book guides you through all the aspects of the new  
> Mac
> Tiger Server including understanding the Apple network, managing  
> network
> access, and network protocols such as TCP/IP AppleTalk, and the OSI
> model. It's jam-packed with hundreds of "how-to" tips to ensure that
> servers are set up correctly and they operate as efficiently as  
> possible.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097140/>
>
> ***MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05
> ISBN: 0596523688
> Every issue of MAKE is packed with projects to help you make the most  
> of
> all the technology in your life. Everything from home entertainment
> systems, to laptops, to a host of PDAs is fair game. If there's a way  
> to
> hack it, tweak it, bend it, or remix it, you will find out about it  
> here.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/makemag06v1/>
>
> ***Mind Performance Hacks
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0-596-10153-8
> "Mind Performance Hacks" provides real-life tips and tools for
> overclocking your brain and becoming a better thinker. In the
> increasingly frenetic pace of today's information economy, managing  
> your
> life requires hacking your brain. With this book, you'll cut through  
> the
> clutter and tune up your brain intentionally, safely, and productively.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/mindperfhks/>
>
> ***Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596100620
> "Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook" tells you all you need to know to
> turn your digital photographs into images that mimic the styles of  
> great
> visual artists. From advice on how to choose appropriate subject matter
> to 62 step-by-step recipes that show you how to create an "original"  
> van
> Gogh, Vermeer, Edward Weston, or Andy Warhol (among others), this book
> is an authentic guide to simulating the work of great artists-and a
> whole lot of fun.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/fineartfx/>
>
> ***Programming SQL Server 2005
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596004796
> Ideal for IT professionals of all stripes, this authoritative guide
> introduces all facets of SQL Server 2005, Microsoft's next-generation
> data management and analysis solution. The book explains all of its new
> features, and shows you how they can help conquer a variety of data
> challenges. Learn how to reduce the complexity of building, deploying
> and managing database applications, and much more.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/progsqlsvr/>
>
> ***Repairing and Upgrading Your PC
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 059600866X
> Repairing and Upgrading Your PC delivers start-to-finish instructions,
> simple enough for even the most inexperienced PC owner, for
> troubleshooting, repairing, and upgrading your computer. Written by
> hardware experts Robert Bruce Thompson and Barbara Fritchman Thompson,
> this book covers it all: how to troubleshoot a troublesome PC, how to
> identify which components make sense for an upgrade, and how to tear it
> all down and put it back together.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/repairpc/>
>
> ***Security Log Management
> Publisher: Syngress
> ISBN: 1597490423
> As a system administrator or security professional, you probably find
> yourself inundated each day with a deluge of log files from seemingly
> countless devices, servers, and applications on your network ranging
> from Windows Server to Snort to your PIX firewall and everything in
> between. This unique book will show you how to use a combination of
> open source software such as Tcpdstats, and Snort perfmonitor to create
> succinct, meaningful reports that give you the big picture of your
> network's overall health and well being. So, if you need to analyze and
> prioritize everything from how much of your bandwidth is devoted to
> browsing ESPN.com, to the most targeted machines in your IDS logs, this
> is the book for you.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1597490423/>
>
> ***VB 2005 Little Black Book
> Publisher: Paraglyph Press
> ISBN: 1933097086
> "Visual Basic 2005 Programming Little Black Book" is one of the first
> comprehensive books that cover the new version of Visual Basic and the
> development features of Microsoft's .NET platform in depth. The book
> explains the major changes to VB and provides numerous tips and
> practical solutions for developing applications.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1933097086/>
>
> ***Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 059610152X
> Newly updated, this classic detailed reference to the Visual Basic
> programming language had been reorganized to cover all the ins and outs
> of Visual Basic 2005, including new features like Generics, My
> Namespace, and operators. An alphabetical reference to Visual Basic  
> 2005
> statements, procedures, functions, and objects makes sure you follow
> along. Ideal for developers, programmers, and anyone learning VB as a
> first language.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/vb2005ian3/>
>
> ***Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596009879
> Our popular reference, "Web Design in a Nutshell," has been completely
> rewritten and expanded to reflect the state of the art in web  
> standards.
> In addition to being an authoritative reference for (X)HTML and
> Cascading Style Sheets, this book also provides an overview of the
> unique requirements of designing for the Web and gets to the
> nitty-gritty of JavaScript and DOM Scripting, web graphics  
> optimization,
> and multimedia production. It is an indispensable tool for web  
> designers
> and developers of all levels.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wdnut3/>
>
> ***Web Site Cookbook
> Publisher: O'Reilly
> ISBN: 0596101090
> This handy guide provides a wide range of solutions to real-life
> problems that come up regularly when creating and growing a web site.
> With recipes that teach both routine and advanced setup tasks, the book
> includes clear and professional instruction on a host of topics. Learn
> page design, visitor tracking, site promotion, and much more.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/websiteckbk/>
>
> ***Wicked Cool Perl Scripts
> Publisher: No Starch Press
> ISBN: 1593270623
> Most Perl programmers have been frustrated at one time or another
> because the system just wouldn't do what they wanted it to do. There  
> was
> that one simple and obvious utility that was missing that would make
> life so much easier. "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is about writing those
> utilities quickly and easily. A collection of handy utilities that
> solves difficult problems, "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is a great
> resource for the savvy Perl programmer.
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/1593270623/>
>
> ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available
> The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you
> subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus
> four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this
> great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four.
> Subscribe at:
> <https://www.pubservice.com/MK/Subnew.aspx?PC=MK&PK=M5ZUGLA>
>
> ================================================
> Upcoming Events
> ================================================
> ***For more events, please see:
> http://events.oreilly.com/
>
> ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers
>  Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24
> Author Julieanne Kost presents "Photoshop CS2--Tips and Tricks."
> <http://www.papainternational.org/conference2006.htm>
>
> ***O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow,
>  Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1
> Stop by our booth (#2117) to check out our digital media titles.
> <http://pmai.org/>
>
> ***O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27
> The sixth Free and Open Source Software Developers' European Meeting is
> organized by volunteers to promote the widespread use of free and open
> source software.
> <http://www.fosdem.org/index/support>
>
> ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar,
>  Orlando, FL--March 1
> Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital
> Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer.
> <http://www.asmpcentralflorida.org/Events.html>
>
> ***Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson,
>  Pacifica, CA--March 9-12	
> Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital
> Photography") presents a four day workshop focusing exclusively on
> fine-art digital printing, primarily using Epson inkjet printers.
> Concentration will be on inkjet printing with color pigments and
> black/gray ink combinations on coated and rag papers. Learn from the
> digital pioneer how he obtains his impressive results during four days
> of lectures, printing, and feedback in the studio.
> <http://www.sjphoto.com/print_wkspHO_frameset.html>
>
> ***O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14
> Authors Kathy Sierra ("Head First Java, Second Edition"), Peter  
> Morville
> ("Ambient Findability"), and Jennifer Niederst Robbins ("Web Design in  
> a
> Nutshell, Third Edition") will be there. Make sure you stop by our  
> booth
> to check out our latest books.
> <http://2006.sxsw.com/interactive/>
>
> ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006,
>  San Diego, CA--March 15
> Author Julieanne Kost presents "Adobe Photoshop CS2--Welcome Aboard."
> <http://www.prophotoca.com/expo/speakers.html>
>
> ***RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson,
>  Pacifica, CA--March 18
> Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital
> Photography") presents this one-day seminar explores this process with
> Adobe's new Photoshop CS2 Camera Raw processor.
> <http://www.sjphoto.com/one-day-seminars-SP06.html>
>
> ***Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage,
>  Corte Madera, CA--March 18
> Photographer and author Mikkel Aaland disscusses and signs his newest
> book.
> <http://www.bookpassage.com/>
>
> ***Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22
> Microsoft's new MIX conference is for developers, designers, and  
> business
> professionals who create consumer-oriented web sites. Hear Bill Gates,
> Tim O'Reilly, and other industry leaders talk about the new and
> unique experiences that can be delivered over the Web.
> <http://www.mix06.com/>
>
> ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar,
>  San Francisco, CA--March 21
> Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital
> Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. 	
> <http://www.peterkrogh.com/Pages/digital/ 
> digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash>
>
> ***Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23
> Author Dru Lavigne (BSD Hacks) delivers the keynote as well as a talk  
> on
> BSD Certification at this year's conference.
> <http://www.ukuug.org/events/spring2006/programme/>
>
> ================================================
> Conference News
> ================================================
> ***Where 2.0 Early Registration is Open
> The Where 2.0 Conference brings together the people, projects, and
> issues leading the charge into the location-based technology frontier.
> Join the developers, innovators, and business people behind the new era
> of geospatial technology as they come together--because everything
> happens somewhere, and it's all happening here.
>
> Where 2.0 Conference, June 13-14, 2006
> Fairmont Hotel, San Jose,  CA
> <http://conferences.oreilly.com/where/>
>
> User Group members who register before April 24, 2006 get a double
> discount. Use code "whr06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off
> the early registration price.
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/47/register.html>
>
>
> ***MySQL Users Conference
> Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest
> gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event
> where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over
> 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one
> roof.
>
> MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006
> Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA
> <http://www.mysqluc.com/>
>
> User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double
> discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off
> the early registration price.
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://www.mysqluc.com/pub/w/45/register.html>
>
>
> ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference
> We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and
> the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth
> continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and  
> content
> keeps spraying from the fire hose. How do we visualize all of this
> digital data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways?  
> The
> coming technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we
> have more than enough already. It's time to do something with that  
> data.
> It's time to build The Attention Economy.
>
> O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006
> Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA
> <http://conferences.oreilly.com/etech/>
>
> Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off
> the registration price.
>
> To register for the conference, go to:
> <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/register.html>
>
> ================================================
> News From O'Reilly & Beyond
> ================================================
> ---------------------
> General News
> ---------------------
> ***A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots
> Want to impress friends and family with professional-looking photos?
> Professional photographer and best-selling author Derrick Story  
> provides
> his favorite tip--using a flash setting--for taking great shots for
> better skin tone, reduced texture in the face, and adding a twinkle to
> the eyes.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/02/01/secret-tip-for- 
> taking-great-digital-shots.html>
>
>
> ***Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment
> After you install Quicken, you're only a few steps away from
> experiencing the joys of electronic personal finance. Chapter 1 of
> "Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual" gets you out of the
> gate running, guiding you through launch, set up and the intricate
> preferences. If you like this chapter, read the whole book (and up
> to nine others) on Safari with a free trial subscription.
> <http://safari.oreilly.com/?XmlId=0596101279/quickenfstmm-CHP-1>
>
>
> ***Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology
> O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called
> Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge
> technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to
> purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles.
> For more information, go to:
> <http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/>
>
> Latest Titles Available:
>
> Perl Hacks
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/index.html>
>
> Ubuntu Hacks
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ubuntuhks/index.html>
>
> Ajax Design Patterns
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxdp/index.html>
>
> Java and XML, 3rd Edition
> <http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/javaxml3/index.html>
>
>
> ---------------------
> Open Source
> ---------------------
> ***Introducing Lua
> Scripting is highly important to extensible applications. Not only is  
> it
> easier to write logic in higher-level languages, but it's often safer.
> It can be effective, too--consider that World of Warcraft and
> other games embed the Lua language and use it for scripts, AI,
> configuration, and even user interface management. Why Lua? Keith
> Fieldhouse introduces the language and explains why it's so  
> appropriate.
> <http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/02/16/introducing-lua.html>
>
>
> ***Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster
> Serious business services really can't go down, whether due to hardware
> or software failures. If your necessary services rely on MySQL,
> clustering and high availability can prevent failures. Kris Buytaert
> shows how his group recently used MySQL Cluster and Heartbeat to  
> provide
> redundant, failure-proof replication and availability of their data.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/databases/2006/02/16/ 
> ha_mysql_cluster.html>
>
>
> ***Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble
> Metrix Pebble is a variant of the popular Pebble Linux distribution  
> that
> adds a web-based configuration GUI, support for OLSRD and EVDO,
> automatic generation of network flows, wireless users, and radio link
> status graphs using rrdtool, and fits in just under 64MB of flash
> memory. Rob Flickenger describes how to use Metrix Pebble to set up a
> wireless mesh network.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/etel/2006/02/10/free-mesh-networking- 
> with-metrix-pebble.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Mac
> ---------------------
> ***What's New in iWork '06?
> iWork's tandem offering of Pages and Keynote provides a useful
> collection of tools for presentations, word processing, and layout. But
> how much has changed since last year's debut? Giles Turnbull walks you
> through Pages 2 and Keynote 3 to help decide if this upgrade is for  
> you.
> <http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/02/22/iwork.html>
>
>
> ***Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV
> By digitizing your old VHS tapes, you can move them from taking up
> precious shelf space to more readily available disk space. In this
> article, Joe McMahon shows you a hack that lets you archive  
> full-quality
> digital recordings from EyeTV to offline media, but still play them  
> back
> easily in EyeTV.
> <http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2006/02/14/eyetv.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Windows/.NET
> ---------------------
> ***Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2
> The long-awaited Beta 2 of IE 7 is finally here. What's new, good, and
> better? Wei-Meng Lee gives you a guided tour and an inside look.
> <http://www.windowsdevcenter.com/pub/a/windows/2006/02/21/inside-look- 
> internet-explorer-7-beta-2.html>
>
>
> ***Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3
> Jesse Liberty is creating an application from scratch in ASP.NET 2.0
> while you watch over his shoulder. In part 3, he builds the engine and
> implements it.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/windows/2006/02/14/creating-an- 
> application-from-scratch-part-3.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Web
> ---------------------
> ***A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned
> Think ecommerce web sites on the cheap are impossible? Find out how to
> get a site off the ground for less than $2000.
> <http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/02/04/a-penny-saved-is-a-penny- 
> earned/>
>
>
> ***O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course
> Keep on the cutting edge of web programming with our newly updated
> HTML/CSS course, part of our hugely popular Web Programming Certificate
> series through the University of Illinois Office of Continuing
> Education. Keep your free O'Reilly books for reference, and your
> Learning Lab account as an online portfolio. Pre-enroll in all six Web
> Programming courses and get HTML/CSS free. Offer good through February
> 28th.
> <http://oreilly.useractive.com/courses/web.php3>
>
>
> ***Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First
> When designing a site, are you still creating the frontpage first? Find
> out why this is a mistake, and a better way to approach it.
> <http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2006/02/01/information-architecture- 
> why-the-first-page-comes-last/>
>
> ---------------------
> Java
> ---------------------
> ***Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS
> Java Messaging Service (JMS) requires a lot of work to set up sessions
> and manage messages, work that can distract you from your
> application-specific logic. The Spring framework's SpringJMS offers a
> simpler solution that keeps the JMS administration out of your face.
> Srini Penchikala takes a look.
> <http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2006/02/22/asynchronous-messaging- 
> with-spring-jms.html>
>
>
> ***Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each Other's
> Toys
> Convincing your colleagues and clients to consider a RESTful approach  
> to
> SOAP is difficult when the accepted standard is SOAP-style services. In
> this article, Jason R. Briggs introduces a SOAP interface that can be
> used to deliver SOAP messages from REST resources.
>
> <http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2006/02/15/jython-soap-interface- 
> to-rest.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Podcasts
> ---------------------
> ***Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting
> Differently
> Rael Dornfest and Tim O'Reilly continue their preview of next month's
> Emerging Technology conference, Bruno Souza talks to us about Java in
> Brazil, conference photographer James Duncan Davidson discusses his  
> art,
> and "Why the Lucky Stiff" shows us that conference presentations can be
> much more creative than they tend to be. (DTF 02-17-2006: 28 minutes 37
> seconds)
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/02/17/distributing-the- 
> future.html>
>
>
> ***Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear
> and How to Avoid and Fix Errors
> Listen in as Jack Herrington, the author of "Podcasting Hacks," chats
> with pioneer podcasters Doug Kaye and James Polanco. Doug is the  
> founder
> of IT Conversations, the influential site that features podcasts
> covering important events, programs, and interviews with industry
> luminaries. James is the founder of "Fake Science," the popular podcast
> radio show covering all things digital music--news, reviews, and
> profiles of digital artists.
> <http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2006/02/09/pioneer- 
> podcasters-share-insider-tips-part-4.html>
>
> ---------------------
> Digital Media
> ---------------------
> ***Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost
> In addition to over 150 full-color images, Julieanne Kost's new book,
> "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking"
> includes details on such topics as how to make great-looking images of
> clouds, mountains, farmland, and water, while photographing through
> airplane windows. This excerpt from Kost's book explains how to do just
> that. Kost details some of the techniques she used to transform images
> captured from the skies above into the final images that appear in the
> book.
> <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2006/02/08/talking-with-julieanne- 
> kost.html>
>
>
> ***O'Reilly Photography Learning Center
> The O'Reilly Photography Learning Center is an evolving resource of
> tips, tricks, and techniques for photographers, both professional and
> amateur alike. Each month, we highlight a featured author, provide tips
> and techniques, and offer special discounts. Right now, check out Deke
> McClelland's tried and true teaching method for learning Photoshop CS2.
> <http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/learningcenter/>
>
>
> ***Speak Your Mind on Digital Media
> Fill out a short survey (less than 10 minutes) and help us bring you  
> the
> most accessible, best-written, cost-effective, and useful digital media
> resources on Earth. And don't forget to give us your email address at
> the end of the survey for a chance to win several great prizes!
> <http://www.zoomerang.com/recipient/survey-intro.zgi?p=WEB224ZBXCX296>
>
> ---------------------
> MAKE
> ---------------------
> ***Calling All Makers!
>
> On April 22nd and 23rd at the San Mateo Fairgrounds, MAKE magazine, the
> first magazine devoted entirely to DIY technology projects, is hosting
> Maker Faire. This event is the first ever public gathering of tech DIY
> enthusiasts, educators, tinkerers, hobbyists, science clubs, students,
> authors, and exhibitors. Maker Faire will include 6 exposition &
> workshop pavilions, a 5-acre outdoor midway, over 100 exhibiting  
> Makers,
> hands-on workshops, demonstrations, DIY competitions, and the latest in
> tools, kits and DIY resources. The Maker Faire will also be featuring
> The Ultimate Garage (automative meets tech DIY), Robotics, Digital
> Entertainment/Gaming, Green Tech & Electronics Recycling, Ultimate
> Workshop, Weird Science, and the MAKE: Remix video film festival.
> More info:
> <http://makezine.com/faire/>
>
> The Call for Proposals is now open. If you have an interesting project
> that you are bursting to share with your fellow Makers, here's your
> chance! You will have the opportunity to explain how the project works
> and to demonstrate it to an inquisitive and appreciative audience.  
> Plus,
> you will have the opportunity to roam the Faire and spend some downtime
> with fellow Makers. Each Maker will be assigned to a half-day time slot
> on Saturday or Sunday.
>
> Your proposal should include a short description of your project and a
> brief profile describing yourself. This information will appear in the
> Maker Faire program and on makezine.com. Also, please state any special
> requirements (power, connectivity, ventilation, etc.) you may have.
> Submit a proposal today:
> <http://makezine.com/faire/makers/proposal/>
>
>
> Important Dates:
>
> Maker Proposal Due: Midnight (PST) Feb. 27, 2006
> Speaker Notification: March 15, 2006
> Workshop and Presentations Files Due: April 10, 2006
> Faire: April 22-23, 2006
>
>
> ***Meet Your Fellow Makers
> Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings:
> <http://www.makezine.com/events/>
>
>
> ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE:
> <http://makezine.com/samples/>
>
>
> Until next time--
>
> Marsee Henon
>
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly
> 1005 Gravenstein Highway North
> Sebastopol, CA   95472
> http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
> ================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 41575 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060226/17e198a9/attachment.bin>

From einfeldt at gmail.com  Sun Feb 26 19:24:30 2006
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:24:30 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found...
In-Reply-To: <B8A1900E-A62D-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com>
	<4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com>
	<B8A1900E-A62D-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040602261924s630a946ct52723f36c9921018@mail.gmail.com>

hi jim

On 2/25/06, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
>     Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping
> point film documenting the open source
> phenomenon. Their web site has some
> great info and links:
> http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/


Thanks for this plug!   Heh.  See ya.  We are making progress on the film.
Let's talk next weekend, if you are interested.

On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:
>
> > Hi Vince,
> >
> > On 2/23/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >  Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina
> > Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..)
> > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
> >
> >
> >  Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open
> > source software. In the future, most software will be downloaded from
> > sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens. ibiblio is
> > one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen
> > calls a disruptive channel. As open source disrupts Microsoft's
> > business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in
> > the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft
> > business hub, IMHO. To me, this change in the industry is one of the
> > most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will
> > result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with
> > each other.
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060226/2744dcd3/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 27 11:35:41 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:35:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle -
	OpenSource alternatives..
Message-ID: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>

 Thought this was interesting..
  "Open-source programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find they work fine, others say they lack some features"
  
  by
  Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer
  Monday, February 27, 2006
  
  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1.DTL&hw=open+source&sn=001&sc=1000
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060227/70e462a7/attachment.html>

From einfeldt at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 15:50:57 2006
From: einfeldt at gmail.com (Christian Einfeldt)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:50:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle -
	OpenSource alternatives..
In-Reply-To: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4b5781040602271550g6be9ebeeg5c3719e3b35de87d@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

On 2/27/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Thought this was interesting..
> "Open-source programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find
> they work fine, others say they lack some features"
>
> by
>  Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer <ckirby at sfchronicle.com>
> Monday, February 27, 2006
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1.DTL&hw=open+source&sn=001&sc=1000
>

I saw this article.  It's great that it has a front page splash box with a
picture of Bill Gates in the top right hand corner.  The Chron really gave
this top billing.  That is in itself a digital tipping point.

However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to
Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or
she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral."
I am planning to scan the front page of the hard copy, because the Chron's
on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page
placement given to the hard copy.  If anyone wants to receive a copy of the
scanned version, please raise your hand!

Thanks for this info, Vince.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060227/e34feca1/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 27 22:04:35 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:04:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Re: From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle
	- OpenSource alternatives..
In-Reply-To: <4b5781040602271550g6be9ebeeg5c3719e3b35de87d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060228060435.12986.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt at gmail.com> wrote:However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral."  I am planning to scan the front page of the hard copy, because the Chron's on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page placement given to the hard copy.  If anyone wants to receive a copy of the scanned version, please raise your hand! 
The printed story is the same as the online version.

The real story, closely related to this, is the OpenDoc format. She
could have spoken about that, and perhaps about the smear campaign
against Peter Quinn, the Massachusetts State IT Director, for trying to
get his state to standardize on OpenDoc. OpenOffice 2 supports
OpenDoc, so it would have added a nice angle to the story.

- Adrien




		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060227/7b8723cd/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Fri Mar  3 09:59:41 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:59:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] meeting this sunday, 3/5, at javacat 
Message-ID: <7D17EFC7-AADF-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com>


...at the Javacat from 11:00 AM till 1:00 PM or so.

The Javacat cafe is on Geary at 20th (in SF).
See you there.




From jim at well.com  Fri Mar  3 14:58:36 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:58:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Levanta Linux Management Appliance
Message-ID: <3F5B292A-AB09-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Anybody got an opinion about Winton's offer?
    I think he'd be disappointedly polite at the
javacat; maybe he'd spring for lattes all around.
    My thought is to put him onto balug or penlug.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Winton Jew" <wjew at levanta.com>
> Date: March 3, 2006 2:41:31 PM PST
> To: <jim at well.com>
> Subject: Levanta Linux Management Appliance
>
> Jim,
>
> I would like to request the opportunity to speak at one of your 
> meetings.? I would be glad to sponsor refreshments or something.
>
> I thought you might be interested in Levanta?s Intrepid M, The World?s 
> First Linux Management Appliance.?

> The Levanta system is a breakthrough in provisioning, deployment, and 
> change management for Linux environments large and small. Whether you 
> use blades, rack servers, large SMPs, desktops, virtual machines, or 
> mainframes, Levanta can dramatically improve the power and flexibility 
> of Linux.
>
> Levanta is a leader in Linux management and data virtualization. 
> Levanta's unique technology marries change control with data 
> virtualization, delivering dramatically faster and more flexible 
> control of Linux on commodity hardware, racks, blades, boxes, virtual 
> machines, and even mainframes. Unlike traditional script-based or 
> disk-imaging solutions, Levanta can:
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2066 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Provision: Servers or workstations with full Linux stack and 
> applications in just minutes. Even from bare metal.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 324 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0001.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0001.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Deploy: Software and patches simply and quickly to multiple machines 
> without lengthy installation steps or copying files.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 333 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0002.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0002.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Migrate: Move all the software and the entire OS on a machine from one 
> piece of hardware to another at will.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 320 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0003.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0003.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Be On-Demand: Allocate resources spontaneously using commodity 
> components, with no vendor lock-in.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 310 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0004.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0004.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Track Everything: Track all changes made to a machine by any means, 
> supporting your testing, security, or compliance needs.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 335 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0005.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0005.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Capture State: Take a checkpoint to archive the state of machine, 
> allowing you to 'save' a system before making changes to it.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 338 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0006.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0006.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Instant Rollback: Undo changes made to a machine in minutes, even in 
> the distant past.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 298 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0007.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0007.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Recover Disasters: Bring dead machines quickly back to life, even if 
> they're unbootable.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 300 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0008.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0008.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Out of the Box: Includes pre-defined templates and open source 
> software for servers, workstations, and software stacks. Or create 
> your own.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 351 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0009.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0009.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Leverage Shared Storage: Includes shared storage functionality, giving 
> you powerful storage management that is easy to deploy and integrate.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 352 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0010.bin>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image.tiff
Type: image/tiff
Size: 264 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0010.tiff>
-------------- next part --------------
> Support Anything: Works with commodity hardware, blades, racks, 
> desktops and virtual machines.
>
> Levanta's customers include industry leaders in financial services, 
> entertainment, government, retail and telecommunications. Levanta has 
> partnerships with IBM, HP, Novell, and Red Hat.
>
> For more information please go to www.levanta.com.
>
> Please let me know if this is of interest to you.
> Thank you.
> Regards,
>
> Winton Jew
> Western Regional Sales Manager
> Levanta
> 650-403-7231 office
> 408-772-9525 cell
> wjew at levanta.com
> www.levanta.com
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1861 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060303/cbbbd30d/attachment-0011.bin>

From jim at well.com  Sat Mar  4 09:10:05 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:10:05 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: A question about squid problem
Message-ID: <B99082C5-ABA1-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com>


this human being deserves help, seems to me.

The problem is network access through a firewall
after replacing the Windows firewall host with a
Linux host.

Can anyone help?

the  tr  domain is turkey.


Begin forwarded message:

> From: ?nan? ????ar <icigsar at tusside.gov.tr>
> Date: March 4, 2006 1:35:49 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: A question about squid problem
>
> Hi ,
>  I found your e-mail address while I was searching for help through 
> the net. I will try to explain about my network structure and my 
> problem.
>  We were using a Windows server as a firewall and gateway and a Red 
> Hat as a proxy server. When we had a problem with the firewall we 
> replaced it with a Fedora Core ( squid and shorewall are configured ) 
> as a proxy,getaway and firewall.Then remove the red hot server which 
> was serving as a (squid) proxy . But my problems continued.
>
>  Below is my squid configuration on Fedora Core ( which is also the 
> gateway and firewall ):
>
>  acl mydomain src 192.168.10.0/24
>  http_access allow mydomain
>
>  http_access deny !mydomain
>
>  But when i try to open www.mydomain.com and any other pages under 
> www.mydomain.com ( www.mydomain.com/references.asp) i get an error ( 
> 111) saying that connection refused. when i clear the proxy options 
> the pages are displayed.
>
>  I had the same config when i was using Red hat squid but it was 
> neither a gateway nor a firewall.It was only running as a proxy. Why i 
> get a refused connection error??
>
>  I would be glad if you can support me with this...
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1770 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060304/f9ec4e4f/attachment.bin>

From mark at kermit.org  Sat Mar  4 11:37:03 2006
From: mark at kermit.org (mark at kermit.org)
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:37:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: A question about squid problem
In-Reply-To: <B99082C5-ABA1-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <B99082C5-ABA1-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <612D9007-E45D-44BA-BB59-5824E80205B6@kermit.org>

We need to see the firewall / NAT configuration.

Most likely the packages from the 192.168.10.0/24 network get NATed  
before they even hit squid, therefore Squid will see as source  
address not the local network, but the public IP address of the  
firewall.

You will need to make sure that you do NOT translate (NAT) any  
connections from your local network to the public Internet Port 80.  
Since Squid is acting as a proxy, it will fetch the page form the  
public Internet and deliver it to your local client.

I hope that helps,

Mark

On Mar 4, 2006, at 09:10 , jim stockford wrote:

>
> this human being deserves help, seems to me.
>
> The problem is network access through a firewall
> after replacing the Windows firewall host with a
> Linux host.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> the  tr  domain is turkey.
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> From: ?nan? ????ar <icigsar at tusside.gov.tr>
>> Date: March 4, 2006 1:35:49 AM PST
>> To: jim at well.com
>> Subject: A question about squid problem
>>
>> Hi ,
>>  I found your e-mail address while I was searching for help  
>> through the net. I will try to explain about my network structure  
>> and my problem.
>>  We were using a Windows server as a firewall and gateway and a  
>> Red Hat as a proxy server. When we had a problem with the firewall  
>> we replaced it with a Fedora Core ( squid and shorewall are  
>> configured ) as a proxy,getaway and firewall.Then remove the red  
>> hot server which was serving as a (squid) proxy . But my problems  
>> continued.
>>
>>  Below is my squid configuration on Fedora Core ( which is also  
>> the gateway and firewall ):
>>
>>  acl mydomain src 192.168.10.0/24
>>  http_access allow mydomain
>>
>>  http_access deny !mydomain
>>
>>  But when i try to open www.mydomain.com and any other pages under  
>> www.mydomain.com ( www.mydomain.com/references.asp) i get an error  
>> ( 111) saying that connection refused. when i clear the proxy  
>> options the pages are displayed.
>>
>>  I had the same config when i was using Red hat squid but it was  
>> neither a gateway nor a firewall.It was only running as a proxy.  
>> Why i get a refused connection error??
>>
>>  I would be glad if you can support me with this...
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Sun Mar  5 17:49:06 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:49:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat
Message-ID: <528b20610603051749m5ed04cbdu4a06ad9313c4a44e@mail.gmail.com>

After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she said
that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like that she
would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our group and the
business we bring in. She also said that people are always asking here about
the group so a flyer with some info would probably be a good idea.

--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060305/f9dec42d/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Mon Mar  6 08:28:01 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:28:01 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
Message-ID: <2E3F1791-AD2E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> To: "John Lowry" <johnlowry at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat
>
>
>
>    I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> file partly made up, complete with
> penguins, just lacking enough words.
>    Lots of thanks.
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
>
>> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she 
>> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like 
>> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our 
>> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are 
>> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would 
>> probably be a good idea.
>>
>>  --
>> John Lowry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1177 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060306/72ebb3d1/attachment.bin>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  6 08:47:10 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:47:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <2E3F1791-AD2E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey Jim,
  Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this group  (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from SF-WOW.  Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our balls...etc,   place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe training/turoring sessions, if  they'll allow us to use they're computers. It seems the beauty of this  group is we get to exchange bits of knowledge, and crash systems with  incomplete knowledge, and hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is  what you could put on the flyer. What 'ya think?
  
  Vince

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:  

Begin forwarded message:

> From: jim stockford 
> Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> To: "John Lowry" 
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat
>
>
>
>    I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> file partly made up, complete with
> penguins, just lacking enough words.
>    Lots of thanks.
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
>
>> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she 
>> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like 
>> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our 
>> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are 
>> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would 
>> probably be a good idea.
>>
>>  --
>> John Lowry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060306/dc779f78/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Mon Mar  6 09:48:29 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:48:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.)
    I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or
some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course),
so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly
in the name of science.
    As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page-
layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).


On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote:

> Hey Jim,
>  Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this 
> group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from 
> SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our 
> balls...etc,? place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe 
> training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're 
> computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange 
> bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and 
> hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the 
> flyer. What 'ya think?
>
>  Vince
>
> jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: jim stockford
>  > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> > To: "John Lowry"
>  > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> > file partly made up, complete with
> > penguins, just lacking enough words.
> > Lots of thanks.
> >
> > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
> >
> >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she
>  >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like
>  >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes 
> our
>  >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are
>  >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would
>  >> probably be a good idea.
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Lowry
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sf-lug mailing list
> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 2134 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060306/e7753e16/attachment.bin>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  6 10:08:50 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:08:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine you  can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and textbox  on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could do it in  OpenOffice, also...As to what I said earlier, It just seems like this  group is a good place to demysify somethings , and talk about real  geeky things at the sametime. Besides, I kinda like the anarchist  feel...Well, I think they actually want me to do some work today...

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:  
    I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.)
    I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or
some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course),
so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly
in the name of science.
    As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page-
layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).


On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote:

> Hey Jim,
>  Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this 
> group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from 
> SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our 
> balls...etc,  place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe 
> training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're 
> computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange 
> bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and 
> hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the 
> flyer. What 'ya think?
>
>  Vince
>
> jim stockford  wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: jim stockford
>  > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> > To: "John Lowry"
>  > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> > file partly made up, complete with
> > penguins, just lacking enough words.
> > Lots of thanks.
> >
> > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
> >
> >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she
>  >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like
>  >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes 
> our
>  >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are
>  >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would
>  >> probably be a good idea.
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Lowry
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sf-lug mailing list
> >> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060306/c39784b4/attachment.html>

From sverma at sfsu.edu  Mon Mar  6 10:25:45 2006
From: sverma at sfsu.edu (Sameer Verma)
Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:25:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
	<6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <440C7EA9.9030102@sfsu.edu>

jim stockford wrote:

>
>
> I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.)
> I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or
> some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course),
> so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly
> in the name of science.

We could arrange for space and possibly a few machines, but usually SFSU
space availability is tight, so it will need some planning.
Additionally, if SF-LUG makes this event "co-organized" with a student
association, then it becomes a lot easier to get rooms, computers, etc.
for  such events.


> As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page-
> layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).
>
For page layout etc., scribus is a lot better. http://www.scribus.org.uk/

Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/



From jim at well.com  Mon Mar  6 11:23:32 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:23:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app?
In-Reply-To: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B33A90F9-AD46-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    That is a terrific, easy-to-read, demystifying
  article:
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html

    In the pro graphics world, PhotoShop is and
looks to remain king, according to this article.
    As to photoshop being a platform, the meaning
for users seems to be "more plug-ins".

    I think the writer did not entirely consider the
possibilities of Open Source Software (OSS);
there may come a tipping point where forces
impel coders to push Gimp capabilities fast,
and in that case, Gimp development may be
a great deal more rapid than that for proprietary
PhotoShop...well, so says I.

On Mar 6, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Lx Rudis wrote:

>
>>     As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page-
>> layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).
>
> i guess you'd need 'scribus' for that?
>
> i think he's envisioning a less 'layout intensive'
> flyer...?  i rooted around a bit, found an interesting
> article about why graphics designers would want to
> stick with photoshop.  about 2/3 of the way in there
> is an interesting comment about photoshop no longer
> being an app, but being a platform..:
>
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html
>
>
> x
>
>




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  6 11:49:10 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:49:10 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app?
In-Reply-To: <B33A90F9-AD46-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<B33A90F9-AD46-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> That is a terrific, easy-to-read, demystifying article:
> > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html

Vaughan-Nichols is an excellent writer, but this particular article of
his would have been better if he'd gotten into the P-word: patents.

The GIMP perennially lacks colour-matching, ICC profile colour management
(CMYK, RGB, LAB), Pantone integration, and a monitor calibration tool.
Those are absolutely _crucial_ for a credible presence in prepress
software.

Is this because The GIMP's authors don't know how to code those
functions?  No, absolutely not.  The problem is that all of those areas
are heavily patent-encumbered, and in general prepress / professional
graphics work is a patent minefield (as is the case for digital A/V,
too).  Probably, all of those functions have been coded for The GIMP a
thousand times over -- behind closed doors.  Do it in the open, and
you'll automatically owe a big pile of royalties.  

A GIMP superset with proprietary modules to do patent-encumbered things
if physically possible, but distribution of same is precluded by The
GIMP's GPL licensing.

> As to photoshop being a platform, the meaning for users seems to be
> "more plug-ins".

FYI:  The GIMP on MS-Windows can use Photoshop plugins:
http://members.home.nl/m.weisbeek/gimp/#ps 

-- 
Cheers,             
Rick Moen                 "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor."
rick at linuxmafia.com                                   -- Elizabeth Tudor



From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Mar  6 11:51:09 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:51:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 10:08:50AM -0800, vincent polite wrote:
> Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine
> you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and
> textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could
> do it in OpenOffice,

Best would be Scribus, of course, as it's meant for this kind of thing.
(It's a Desktop Publishing (DTP) app.)

See:  http://www.scribus.org.uk/


<shameless plug> Or, for fun, you could always use Tux Paint.  >;^)  Hehe!

-- 
-bill!                                    Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
bill at newbreedsoftware.com                CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/       http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw



From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Mar  6 11:53:44 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app?
In-Reply-To: <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<B33A90F9-AD46-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 11:49:10AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> A GIMP superset with proprietary modules to do patent-encumbered things
> if physically possible, but distribution of same is precluded by The
> GIMP's GPL licensing.
> 

I'm dumb today.  How does GIMP's GPL licensing affect creation of plugins?
Or does it?

<snip>
> FYI:  The GIMP on MS-Windows can use Photoshop plugins:
> http://members.home.nl/m.weisbeek/gimp/#ps 

Sadly, it seems it currently cannot do Python-Fu and/or Perl-Fu.
I can't remember which.  I also doubt that will be the case down the road.

-bill!
(jealously eyeing Krita, since (1) Gimp is becoming a pain to use and
(2) I'm a big KDE whore these days ;^) ... I still *heart* Gimp, but...)



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar  6 11:57:52 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:57:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app?
In-Reply-To: <20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net>
References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<B33A90F9-AD46-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20060306195752.GT17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):

> I'm dumb today.  How does GIMP's GPL licensing affect creation of plugins?
> Or does it?

Not creation.  Distribution.  If you write (or bundle) a proprietary
plugin and distribute same, and then some GIMP author can build a case
for some of your code being a derivative work of The GIMP's code
(arguably feasible), then if he/she can prove that, you've violated
his/her copyright by using his/her code in a fashion not allowed by its 
licence.

> (jealously eyeing Krita, since (1) Gimp is becoming a pain to use and
> (2) I'm a big KDE whore these days ;^) ... I still *heart* Gimp, but...)

KDE's looking better all the time.  Quite sweet.




From jim at well.com  Mon Mar  6 12:22:09 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:22:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net>
References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <E3AC8196-AD4E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Crikey, right in our backyard.
    Of course, I'll try TuxPaint out (Bill Kendrick is
the owner/coder/visionary-keeper of TuxPaint).
    Written in what programming language (I'm
guessing it starts with "py")?


On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 10:08:50AM -0800, vincent polite wrote:
>> Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine
>> you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and
>> textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could
>> do it in OpenOffice,
>
> Best would be Scribus, of course, as it's meant for this kind of thing.
> (It's a Desktop Publishing (DTP) app.)
>
> See:  http://www.scribus.org.uk/
>
>
> <shameless plug> Or, for fun, you could always use Tux Paint.  >;^)  
> Hehe!
>
> -- 
> -bill!                                    Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
> bill at newbreedsoftware.com                CDROM, bumper sticker & 
> apparel
> http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/       
> http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From nbs at sonic.net  Mon Mar  6 12:36:19 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:36:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd:  A quick note about Java Cat
In-Reply-To: <E3AC8196-AD4E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net>
	<E3AC8196-AD4E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060306203619.GB23645@sonic.net>

On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 12:22:09PM -0800, jim stockford wrote:
>    Of course, I'll try TuxPaint out (Bill Kendrick is
> the owner/coder/visionary-keeper of TuxPaint).
>    Written in what programming language (I'm
> guessing it starts with "py")?

C, actually. :^)  Plain ol' C.

-bill!
(who doesn't know Python yet... still...)



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  6 13:16:29 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:16:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer - brouhaha...does it really matter..
Message-ID: <20060306211629.75109.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

It's a  simple flyer. Unless your going to do 4-color printing on a big old  Heidelberg press, colour-matching, ICC profile colour management (CMYK,  RGB, LAB), Pantone integration, and a monitor calibration tool, doesn't  matter. If its for the web, you're not going beyond 72 dpi, printing is  300 dpi, it's just to big. Severe loss of color. Then you also have to  figure whether the viewer has a decent screen. I've editted thousands  of images for photographers, graphic designers, painters...and haven't  had complaints, except for sharpness. Hell, ImageReady works fine for  web work. Actually, when you save an image for the web in Photoshop, it  gets saved in ImageReady. Think about the job you need to do...My 2and  a half meaningless cents.
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060306/f9051177/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Tue Mar  7 09:11:59 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:11:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] summary of Sunday's meeting discussion
Message-ID: <7CB0AF2A-ADFD-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Here's a quick summary of the sf-lug meeting
discussion this last Sunday, March 5.

Who was there:
John, Andrew, Chris, Vince, LX, jim
----------------
dns quick introductory tutorial by Chris
for those willing to crowd around his laptop
----------------
Flocks of unmanned aircraft form Bluetooth Linux clusters
search for linux PC104 cluster bluetooth
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2142584362.html
mini itx and nano itx form factor X86.
----------------
gtranslate
"gTranslate is not affiliated with Google Inc. in any way."
a mozilla/firefox extension that uses Google's translation services
Chris claims this does a good job with Japanese
http://www.aditel.org/~ptomas/extensions/
----------------
tlearn
neural network simulation
learn your computer before it learns you--it's a race
http://www.ling.udel.edu/colin/courses/psycho_f98/lab1a.html
----------------
g4u
ghost for unix--more flexible than dd for copying
partition-at-a-time
http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/
----------------
udev is better than devfs:
daemon-based, D-BUS messaging for kernels 2.6+
improved /dev/* management
persistent device naming for user-defined device names
dynamic major/minor numbers
http://www.kernel.org/udev
http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#why
http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev_vs_devfs
----------------
sidekick--a device and service for mobile internet access
Chris brought his for us to see
http://www.cellularchoices.net
http://www.danger.com
----------------
good for internet cafe users--set up a vpn on your
home machine and avoid snoopers at the next table
http://openvpn.net
----------------
the diamond lane--recommended for colo and web hosting
http://www.tdl.com
----------------
fiberoptic to the home, either with verizon or AT&T,
is this real? we can start paying for it now?




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 21:33:23 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Greatest. Coffee place. Ever
Message-ID: <528b20610603092133h364db094vba0017e9c95d0ee@mail.gmail.com>

http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/07/1556230&from=rss

The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if we
burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about them or
something?

--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060309/5a5f7edc/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 08:25:57 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:25:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Greatest. Coffee place. Ever
In-Reply-To: <528b20610603092133h364db094vba0017e9c95d0ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060310162557.75826.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

That's a pretty good idea John!!

John Lowry <johnlowry at gmail.com> wrote:  http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/07/1556230&from=rss
  
  The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if  we burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about  them or something?

-- 
John Lowry

  _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060310/93c08aa9/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 12:43:35 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:43:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice
	opinions??
Message-ID: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>

I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know  where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that  could be stored away.

Bayle Emlein <pcc at ix.netcom.com> wrote:  To: new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com
From: "Bayle Emlein" <pcc at ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:14:11 -0800
Subject: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions??

          Hi Carrie,
        I've been using OpenOffice since before  it evolved from StarOffice. Haven't had any problems with it. Working  in the schools and low-income families, it has performed a real service  in making donated computers really useful.
  Bayle Emlein
  Assistive Technology/Career Transition Specialist
  Oakland Unified School District
  2850 West Street
  Oakland, CA  94606
  
  
            

    Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html  

                      

          SPONSORED LINKS    
                                                        Computer internet security                                          Computer internet business                                          Computer internet access                                                                          Computer internet privacy securities                                          Computer internet help                                          Computer internet connection                                                                             
        
---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  
  
      
    Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
     
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
     
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  
  
      
---------------------------------
  
  
          
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060310/b257638f/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 10 13:14:35 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:14:35 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice
	opinions??
In-Reply-To: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know
> where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that
> could be stored away.

There's lots of potential for use / promotion of OpenOffice.org and other
open-source software by schools and social-service outfits.  I've seen a
number of efforts by computerists to push that along -- all of them well
intended, but with, unfortunately, strikingly low rates of success.

The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of
giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them.
They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and
volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going.  If
they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the
unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into
something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing
technical assistance for which there is simply no budget.

Someone like the quoted Bayle Emlein (Assistive Technology/Career
Transition Specialist, Oakland School District) is in a slightly better
position to get the message across -- because of being an insider.
SF-LUG might consider trying to find out what resources he needs to make
the case.


Quoting the WoW Yahoo Group's footer:
   
>     Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
>   More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
>   Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html  

I realise this is specifically the San Francisco Women on the Web
mailing list we're talking about, but one of my rules for living is to
avoid any forum said to be run by a "listmom":  Administration tends to
be heavy-handed and very high-context.  (The male "listmoms" tend
statistically to be particularly bad in this area.  I first noticed this
odd subculture among, of course, certain groups of Macintosh users.)
Your Mileage May Differ<tm>.





From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 13:39:59 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:39:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice
	opinions??
In-Reply-To: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060310213959.69085.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Rick,
  I think were thinking along the same path...Actually, I also saw this  on the same mailing list. They didn't say what School District it was.  But, one had a complete computer failure. All teacher records, lesson  plans...etc. were lost. I also heard that a non-profit runs the Oakland  Schools' computer system...I'm sure we won't change the world. Maybe  effect part of it with this?
  
  Thanks,
  Vince

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:  Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know
> where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that
> could be stored away.

There's lots of potential for use / promotion of OpenOffice.org and other
open-source software by schools and social-service outfits.  I've seen a
number of efforts by computerists to push that along -- all of them well
intended, but with, unfortunately, strikingly low rates of success.

The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of
giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them.
They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and
volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going.  If
they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the
unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into
something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing
technical assistance for which there is simply no budget.

Someone like the quoted Bayle Emlein (Assistive Technology/Career
Transition Specialist, Oakland School District) is in a slightly better
position to get the message across -- because of being an insider.
SF-LUG might consider trying to find out what resources he needs to make
the case.


Quoting the WoW Yahoo Group's footer:
   
>     Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
>   More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
>   Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html  

I realise this is specifically the San Francisco Women on the Web
mailing list we're talking about, but one of my rules for living is to
avoid any forum said to be run by a "listmom":  Administration tends to
be heavy-handed and very high-context.  (The male "listmoms" tend
statistically to be particularly bad in this area.  I first noticed this
odd subculture among, of course, certain groups of Macintosh users.)
Your Mileage May Differ.



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060310/6bf9b4dd/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 10 15:33:59 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:33:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice
	opinions??
In-Reply-To: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060310233359.92872.qmail@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of
giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them.
They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and
volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going.  If
they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the
unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into
something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing
technical assistance for which there is simply no budget.

Definitely. I spent some time working for the largest and oldest educational media company. Part of my job involved helping set up meetings with various State Superintendants of Education and on one occasion a State Governor who wanted to wire the secondary schools in his state. The process is VERY political; I remember one consultant describing how he could help us navigate the "byzantine procurement process" of a particular school system. My guess is that someone near the top of the heirarchy, maybe even the Mayor himself, will want to make the announcement, and take the credit for, adopting a change to any new technology.

Just remember, the revolution will not be televised.

Cheers,

Adrien





		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze. 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060310/7cbd05df/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 11 10:45:58 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:45:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Monday March 20, Marilyn Davis on Python (at Javacat)
Message-ID: <47B32989-B12F-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Discussion at the last two meetings has included
a fair amount of code-related talk.
    Our next meeting has, for the first time in sf-lug
history, a scheduled person (I don't want to say
"speaker" 'cause the format will remain--show up
and do as you please, talk or listen, chew with your
mouth open--one or more conversations seem to
keep rolling at our meetings).
    This person is a python developer--actually uses
python for product development, and also teaches
programming at one of the state universities (I
forget which).
    She's real engaging, accessible, fun to talk to, and
loves python, so if anybody can explain why use
python rather than php or perl or java..., it's she:
    http://www.deliberate.com/
# there are a number of (I think) interesting
# links here--she's into community, a bit of a rebel
# it seems to me

    http://www.deliberate.com/w4g/conf97/marilyn.html
# this page is not immediately accessible from the
# deliberate.com top page: has a short bio and pic

    Making a commitment to a programming language
is (i think) a big deal. you have to learn not just the
language itself, but any particular tools, and most
importantly: the libraries, modules, packages, etc.
That's a lot of learning and a lot of getting used to.
    There aren't many people who are expert in more
than one language, so if you're thinking about coding
for a living, think hard. Python is a general purpose,
modern, mature object oriented language designed
for maintenance and readability, somewhat oriented
toward web stuff.

http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/
# there are lots of packages

http://www.python.org/
# main python page for the world

http://www.baypiggies.net/
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
# bay area python user's group, meets once a month
# on the google campus

http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocpyth.htm
# good introductory tutorial

I bcc'd marilyn so she can correct any misinformation.




From jim at well.com  Mon Mar 13 09:19:21 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:19:21 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: PGP job opportunity
Message-ID: <82D86BD6-B2B5-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


job opportunity for a linux and networking support
person in Palo Alto.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Westien <jwestien at xmission.com>
> Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: PGP
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website.
>
> I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We 
> are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and 
> networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The 
> location is based in Palo Alto.
>
> Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a 
> position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 927 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060313/79c0136c/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 16 22:04:04 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:04:04 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] python for our Monday meeting
Message-ID: <D6803235-B57B-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Monday, March 20, from 6:00 till 8:00 PM,
Marilyn Davis will be at Javacat to talk
with us about Python and why it is cool--
really cool. This is an unusual opportunity
to get an overview of this modern, object
oriented programming language from a
developer who loves it.
jim




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 17 16:51:04 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:51:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Might at first seem off the base...."Draft law threatens
	iPod's future in France"
Message-ID: <20060318005104.9504.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>

But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph;
  ...But Apple's transformation into a major force in  digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges  elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said.
    In that case, the French move will turn out to  have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an  open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world  except Apple would like."...
  
  The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business
  
  
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060317/a6c74d42/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 18 08:28:25 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:28:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Might at first seem off the base...."Draft law
	threatens iPod's future in France"
In-Reply-To: <20060318005104.9504.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060318162825.90569.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Apple could potentially have anti-trust problems, if they ever
try to in/prohibit other companies from accessing content (from
Disney or others.) It's pretty clear Apple's strategy is to tightly
integrate iPods and Macs with the iTunes web site; there is nothing
wrong with that, but if things like Disney titles become available only
to subscribers of an Apple service, then anti-trust is an issue.
Even if, say, one other company's media player can access the
content, anti-trust can still occur if accessing such content is
more difficult, or if the other company has less favorable terms
accessing the content, or access is limited in some form.

The much anticipated digital convergence is finally starting to happen.
It is still early in the game. Apple has taken the early lead.

Cheers,

Adrien


vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com> wrote: But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph;
  ...But Apple's transformation into a major force in  digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges  elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said.
    In that case, the French move will turn out to  have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an  open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world  except Apple would like."...
  
  The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business
  
  
  _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060318/1b2e7235/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 18 14:16:08 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:16:08 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] job opening
Message-ID: <CC8851BF-B6CC-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Check it out if you wanna code real time linux network apps in Sta 
Clara:
------------------------------------
    I am working with a privately-held, venture funded enterprise 
software company in Santa  Clara CA.
    We are working on cutting edge technology which should be attractive 
to any contractor looking for a new gig. ?
    We are looking for Linux Contractors and I would like to know if I 
can post a job description?
Laurie DeGange
Senior Technical Recruiter
3Leaf Networks
Office - 408-235-1770
Cell ? 408-402-2364? ?

Company Description:
    We are a privately-held, venture-funded enterprise software company 
based in Santa Clara, California.
    We are developing the infrastructure required to support both 
scale-up and scale-out virtual servers in the enterprise data center 
enabling customers to achieve higher levels of utilization, increased 
availability, reduction in costs, and improved scalability. This unique 
approach is transparent to applications that are resident in the 
enterprise today.
    Culturally we are a mature and experienced team. Technologically, we 
blend the best of high end virtualization with heavy duty enterprise 
servers. If you like to do big things, we're looking for you!

Senior Linux Contractor:
    Senior Linux Kernel contractor to develop and maintain system for 
server virtualization in enterprise-class software systems.  Must work 
well in a medium sized team of very senior developers and architects.
    Must have a thorough understanding of networking and storage in Unix 
platforms.
    Experience with cache coherence mechanisms in any multiprocessor 
environment a plus.

Requirements:
-Linux Networking & Storage Kernel Drivers
-C/C++ RTOS/VxWorks
-Linux TCP Application development
-NFS SMB/NCP
-iSCSI
-Ethernet -Port Layer -Storage Networking -Network Management -Sniffers




From jim at well.com  Sun Mar 19 13:28:45 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:28:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] gone south again
Message-ID: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


hiya all

   my machine was moaning and groaning for days,
somewhere down deep I knew the end was near.
    it died, i took it to ActNet for resurrection (very
fast return!), but i can't get it to eat and spit
64.81.61.186. (My *.*.*.126 machine is working....)
    I've repointed the sf?lug.org domain name to a
new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul
Street. Please check it out

if ( http://www.sf-lug.org ) ;
else
mailto: jim at well.com
fi

    Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round
of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board!
http://www.circlesoft.com
    If not, send curses and suggestions to jim.

Don't forget Python Monday night at Javacat!




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sun Mar 19 16:28:12 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:28:12 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] gone south again
In-Reply-To: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

>    my machine was moaning and groaning for days,
> somewhere down deep I knew the end was near.

Yes, I noticed a few days ago that it was no longer serving up the
SF-LUG Web site.

>     I've repointed the sf?lug.org domain name to a
> new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul
> Street. Please check it out
[...]
>     Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round
> of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board!
> http://www.circlesoft.com

The virtual hosting is working great, and the DNS is resolving properly.
Much thanks to Circlesoft!

-- 
Cheers,       "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is tainted."
Rick Moen                  -- some commentator of the day   "It's twice tainted:
rick at linuxmafia.com  'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine."  -- Mark Twain, replying.



From jim at well.com  Sun Mar 19 19:36:28 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:36:28 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] gone south again
In-Reply-To: <20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com>
References: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <B73F137C-B7C2-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    ignore previous bleating--I'd forgotten to put
in the "http://" part. link works now.


On Mar 19, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>>    my machine was moaning and groaning for days,
>> somewhere down deep I knew the end was near.
>
> Yes, I noticed a few days ago that it was no longer serving up the
> SF-LUG Web site.
>
>>     I've repointed the sf?lug.org domain name to a
>> new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul
>> Street. Please check it out
> [...]
>>     Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round
>> of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board!
>> http://www.circlesoft.com
>
> The virtual hosting is working great, and the DNS is resolving 
> properly.
> Much thanks to Circlesoft!
>
> -- 
> Cheers,       "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is 
> tainted."
> Rick Moen                  -- some commentator of the day   "It's 
> twice tainted:
> rick at linuxmafia.com  'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine."  -- Mark Twain, 
> replying.
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From jim at well.com  Sun Mar 19 20:52:54 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:52:54 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU
Message-ID: <64711260-B7CD-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco
State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus
Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in
once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have
offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux
demos and mayhem.
    I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered
to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not
scheduled) meeting.
    That's the latest news.
jim
PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python
speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python
night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the
more individual attention we get.




From rick at rbsmith.com  Sun Mar 19 21:41:57 2006
From: rick at rbsmith.com (Rick Smith)
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU
Message-ID: <441E40A5.4020108@rbsmith.com>

jim stockford wrote:
 >     Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco
 > State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus
 > Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in
 > once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have
 > offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux
 > demos and mayhem.
 >     I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered
 > to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not
 > scheduled) meeting.

I'd be willing.  I've had conflicts with Sunday and Monday.
so haven't done much showing up recently.  I'll do what
I can to show up.  Most other weeknight and weekend time
is free, but Sunday morning through lunch and Monday night.

 >     That's the latest news.
 > jim
 > PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python
 > speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python
 > night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the
 > more individual attention we get.

Heh, sorry to have missed the chance.  And sorry to miss
the talk.  Hope it goes well!  Thanks Jim.

-- Rick



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 20 08:21:30 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:21:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU
In-Reply-To: <64711260-B7CD-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060320162130.38647.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll go. I can't say I'll make every meeting. But, I think it could be a nice little change. Thanks Sameer and Cyrus

jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:  
    Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco
State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus
Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in
once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have
offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux
demos and mayhem.
    I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered
to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not
scheduled) meeting.
    That's the latest news.
jim
PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python
speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python
night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the
more individual attention we get.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060320/518f9f23/attachment.html>

From grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 20 10:03:50 2006
From: grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com (tobi x)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:03:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group
Message-ID: <20060320180350.92398.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>

hello all!
  
  my name is t.rex and i am new to this group!  i have known about  linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of  open-source and less-commercial programming.  but i never took the  initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now...
  
  i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and  trying to learn more.  i am thinking about transitioning to a  linux system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing  windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.
  
  from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and  perhaps python or perl [for learning programming].  i am confused  about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my  computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for  multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.]
  
  i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for  more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be  hearing more from me in these coming days, heh.  any advice or  guidance would be much appreciated!
  
  peace,
  t.rex
  
		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Travel
 Find  great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060320/0151f85b/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 20 10:12:09 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:12:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group
In-Reply-To: <20060320180350.92398.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>

hey t. 
  welcome to the group. even though i've been lazily involved in this  group for about 2 years, i'm still like you. to bad you aren't in the  city tonight. jim set up a guest on python. feel free to ask stupid  questions. it always leads to more interesting discussions.
  
  v. brontosaurus

tobi x <grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com> wrote:  hello all!
  
  my name is t.rex and i am new to this group!  i have known about  linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of  open-source and less-commercial programming.  but i never took the  initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now...
  
 i  don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying  to learn more.  i am thinking about transitioning to a linux  system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing  windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.
  
 from  what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and  perhaps python or perl [for learning programming].  i am confused  about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my  computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for  multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.]
  
  i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for  more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be  hearing more from me in these coming days, heh.  any advice or  guidance would be much appreciated!
  
  peace,
  t.rex
      

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Travel
   Find    great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060320/5ddea71a/attachment.html>

From kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com  Mon Mar 20 10:34:15 2006
From: kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com (kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0700
Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group
In-Reply-To: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com>

Try this link to help you choose a distro...
http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php

On Monday 20 March 2006 11:12, vincent polite wrote:
> hey t.
>   welcome to the group. even though i've been lazily involved in this 
> group for about 2 years, i'm still like you. to bad you aren't in the  city
> tonight. jim set up a guest on python. feel free to ask stupid  questions.
> it always leads to more interesting discussions.
>
>   v. brontosaurus
>
> tobi x <grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com> wrote:  hello all!
>
>   my name is t.rex and i am new to this group!  i have known about  linux
> for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of  open-source
> and less-commercial programming.  but i never took the  initiative to learn
> more about it for myself...until now...
>
>  i  don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying 
> to learn more.  i am thinking about transitioning to a linux  system, or
> maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing  windows xp and
> linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.
>
>  from  what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and 
> perhaps python or perl [for learning programming].  i am confused  about
> what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my  computer
> to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for  multimedia [to
> produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.]
>
>   i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for  more
> time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be  hearing more
> from me in these coming days, heh.  any advice or  guidance would be much
> appreciated!
>
>   peace,
>   t.rex
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Travel
>    Find    great deals to the top 10 hottest
> destinations!_______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing
> list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Mon Mar 20 10:54:16 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group
In-Reply-To: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com>
References: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
	<200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com>
Message-ID: <20060320185414.GK17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com (kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com):

> Try this link to help you choose a distro...
> http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php

It's getting pretty good!

For further useful background, read 
http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Linux/linux-new.html#distros 
(Karsten's Distributions Guide) and consult 
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major (DistroWatch).

-- 
Cheers,       "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is tainted."
Rick Moen                 -- some commentator of the day    "It's twice tainted:
rick at linuxmafia.com  'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine."  -- Mark Twain, replying.



From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 21 06:30:12 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Last night's Python presentation
Message-ID: <20060321143012.20498.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'd like to thank Marilyn Davis for her Python presentation at last
night's SFLUG meeting. I found it both informative and entertaining.
The slides showing results of the programming language productivity
study were particularly interesting, good food for thought.

Cheers,

Adrien



		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060321/de5366e4/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 21 06:49:47 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:49:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group
In-Reply-To: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com>
Message-ID: <20060321144947.34357.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

kevin.kempter at dataintellect.com wrote:> ...  i am thinking about transitioning to a linux  system, or
> maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing  windows xp and
> linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.
Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the group! I've been installing Linux on laptops for years.
The one distribution I've found to consistently work and install easily
has been SuSE. Specifically, SuSE 9.3. SuSE 9.3 is, IMHO, the best 
release SuSE has put out. I had lots of problems with SuSE 10.0. The word
is that SuSE 10.1 looks really good, but I'll have to wait and test it before
passing judgement. So, for your laptop SuSE 9.3, would be by far
the easiest to install. SuSE also comes with lots of packages.
SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many. Some people also don't
like the proprietary stuff (some drivers) SuSE puts in their distro. 
The amazing thing about SuSE is I've been installing it on different 
laptops since 1999 and it has always worked well. By the way,
the disk partition resizing feature of SuSE's installation is very easy
and works well.

If you want to use  a Debian based distribution, you could try the latest
Kanotix (release 2005-4). I wasn't able to get earlier Kanotix releases 
to work well on my laptop (an IBM Thinkpad T-20), but Kanotix 2005-4 
works fine. You can find Kanotix at http://www.kanotix.org. I'm sure there 
are other distros that will work on your laptop; the two just mentioned 
are the ones I'm sticking with because they were the least hassle to 
install and they've worked well for me.

Cheers,

Adrien



		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060321/ea0991cc/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 21 06:54:32 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:54:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
Message-ID: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation.
Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?
There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
(We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)



			
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060321/076304cf/attachment.html>

From morpheus2485 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 21 22:42:38 2006
From: morpheus2485 at gmail.com (David Reber)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:42:38 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <ccbd486b0603212242q7324987fub7d078d3d33f902@mail.gmail.com>

that would be awesome
~David

On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe <alamozzz at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation.
> Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
> maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?
> There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
> (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/pmall2/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com>to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/2d613c72/attachment.html>

From grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 22 06:24:24 2006
From: grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com (tobi x)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:24:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] questions and thanks
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1142971203.13268.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!  This is tobi  [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to!    ; )
  
  Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on
  
  http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference
  
  - that its the only large distro that functions with open development  on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers]  to revise and adapt.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about this,  but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I  am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the  evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming.
  
  Is Debian good for multimedia work?
  
  My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for  graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film  editing.  I want to learn Python, and how to make a website.
  
  So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages -  can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these  things?
  
Also,
  Adrian said:
      "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."
  
  What is RPM based?  And what exactly is GNU?
  
  If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is  like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if  I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?
  
 I  really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have  a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't  want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are  screwed and I don't know how to fix it!
  
  Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!
  
  tobi

		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/76b362ff/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 22 08:34:20 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:34:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] questions and thanks...i'm interested too..
In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060322163420.41472.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com>

thanks for asking those questions tobi. i'm more interested in the  multimedia aspect of all this. especially the diy. can't afford the  $700 for photoshop soultions. i'd be interested to know.

tobi x <grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com> wrote:  Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!  This is tobi  [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to!    ; )
  
  Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on
  
  http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference
  
  - that its the only large distro that functions with open development  on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers]  to revise and adapt.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about this,  but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I  am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the  evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming.
  
  Is Debian good for multimedia work?
  
  My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for  graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film  editing.  I want to learn Python, and how to make a website.
  
 So I am  looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people  recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things?
  
Also,
  Adrian said:
      "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."
  
  What is RPM based?  And what exactly is GNU?
  
  If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is  like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if  I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?
  
  I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still  have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I  don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are  screwed and I don't know how to fix it!
  
  Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!
  
  tobi
    

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
   Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments._______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/67f43239/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 22 08:35:11 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:35:11 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <ccbd486b0603212242q7324987fub7d078d3d33f902@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060322163511.39758.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com>

that would be great to.

David Reber <morpheus2485 at gmail.com> wrote:  that would be awesome
  ~David

On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe <alamozzz at yahoo.com> wrote:  There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation.
Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?  
There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
(We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)



       

---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail
   Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.  


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
  http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




  _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/ad06a978/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 22 09:33:59 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:33:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    I plied marilyn with rides to and from the
train station and free dinner. I tried to get
her drunk, but i ended up drinking most
of the wine.
    same offer to dierdre (and rick, if he
comes too).

On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:54 AM, Adrien Lamothe wrote:

> There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python 
> presentation.
> Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
> maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?
> There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
> (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)
>
>
>
>  Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying 
> attachments._______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 22 09:35:07 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:35:07 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Leading Itanium Processor Architects to
	Keynote Gelato Conference
Message-ID: <348D0ECC-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


who's interested?

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Nan Holda" <nan at gelato.org>
> Date: March 21, 2006 9:11:06 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: ANNOUNCE: Leading Itanium Processor Architects to Keynote 
> Gelato Conference
>
> Please forward to your group if you think they'd be interested.
>
> The Gelato Federation announces the keynote speakers for the Gelato 
> ICE: Itanium Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 in San 
> Jose, California, USA. Jerry Huck (HP), James Reinders (Intel 
> Corporation), Don Soltis (Intel Corporation), and William Worley 
> (Secure64 and Itanium Solutions Alliance) are scheduled to present on 
> the past, present, and future developments of the Intel Itanium 
> architecture. Speaker biographies are available at 
> http://www.gelato.org/meeting/#keynote
>
> Gelato ICE will address current high-performance computing issues and 
> collaborative solutions specific to Linux on the Intel Itanium-based 
> platforms, and will feature 50+ presentations and the exchange of 
> information in formal and informal settings. An Early Bird discount is 
> in effect until March 25, 2006. Program and registration details are 
> available at http://www.gelato.org/meeting
>
> Hope to see you  in San Jose!
> Nan
>
> Nan Holda
> GELATO Federation
> Advancing Linux Itanium
> tel: 217.265.0947
> fax: 217.333.5579
> www.gelato.org
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1571 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/bb394302/attachment.bin>

From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 22 10:13:57 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:13:57 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] questions and thanks
In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A12B30D2-B9CF-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


Debian has a really strong community and a fair
amount of online docs and even books
(The Debian System, Concepts and Techniques
by Martin Krafft, NoStarch Press, available in
Stacey's bookstore).
    Join the extremely active mailing lists via
http://www.debian.org/
    There's a pretty big Debian user base in the
SF bay area.

    you shoulda come to Marilyn's Python talk at the
javacat last Monday--it was really informative and
tons of fun.

    Linux is good and getting better at multimedia work.
Therefore so is Debian, which (I'm guessing, but
educatedly) is probably as good as any other
distro and (still guessing similarly) better than
most others (e.g. RedHat is corporate-focused,
Gentoo is DIY focused, SUSE is, in my book, on
the ropes or sidelines for now...).

    RPM == RedHat Package Manager, a way to
install, update, upgrade, delete, and otherwise
tweak software on your system. The Debian way
is apt. The two are separate ways to view pretty
much the same universe.

GNU
* what's the 'U' for? "Unix"
* what's the 'N' for? "Not"
* what's the 'G' for? GNU
--------------------------* what's the 'U' for? "Unix"
--------------------------* what's the 'N' for? "Not"
--------------------------* what's the 'G' for? GNU
-----------------------------------------------------* etc.........

    The GNU name is for a community inspired by
Richard Stallman. Their main evidence in the
Linux world is in the toolkit that comes with all
Linux kernels (properly "Linux" refers only to
the kernel, a single massive file that is loaded
as the basis of the operating system). The
GNU toolkit includes the command-line shells,
such programs as ls, grep, vi (YAY!), and so on
(all the programs you learn about when you
first study Unix). The GNU toolkit also comes
on freeBSD distributions and on the Macintosh
OSX products (though Apple's engineers have
tweaked the GNU toolkit behaviors annoyingly).

    Best way to try out Linux is to get a "live" CD.
Best "live" CD distros are Ubuntu and Knoppix.
That you have a laptop reduces the chances
that any "live" CD will work, but you've still got
a good chance. You can get such from me if
you like at my cost (something like $1.50 per
CD, covers shipping plus or minus a dime). I
get them from SpiderTools.com, though I've
bought enough that I get a pretty good discount,
and I buy a bunch at a time, which spreads
shipping costs per CD out low. I think if you
can wait, cheaper to get 'em from me than
from Spidertools direct. My interest is in
promoting *nix OS (and the GNU toolkit), so
I'm all for whatever makes you happy in your
search.

    If you get some distro and try to install it, there
is very little chance you'll get wedged (screwed
up with no way out). There's a fair chance that
you won't get things to work right at first, but
hey! you did say you want to learn, and getting
in too deep is the best, fastest way to learn
(and learning this stuff is a big, big job that
takes lots of time--people who like it, love it).

    Gosh, bladefknbla! holy moly look at the time.
I'm sure some of the above is wrong and hope
that the other sf-lug folks will correct me.
jim


On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:24 AM, tobi x wrote:

> Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!? This is tobi [t.rex], by 
> the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to! ? ; )
>
>  Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I 
> really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on
>
>  http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference
>
>  - that its the only large distro that functions with open development 
> on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of 
> programmers] to revise and adapt.? Please correct me if I'm wrong 
> about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I 
> support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open 
> collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible 
> programming.
>
>  Is Debian good for multimedia work?
>
>  My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for 
> graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film 
> editing.! ? I  want to learn Python, and how to make a website.
>
>  So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - 
> can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit 
> these things?
>
> Also,
> Adrian said:
> ??? "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."
>
> What is RPM based?? And what exactly is GNU?
>
>  If I install a ve!  rsion of Linux on my computer just to see what it 
> is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state 
> if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?
>
>  I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still 
> have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I 
> don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are 
> screwed and I don't know how to fix it!
>
>  Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these 
> questions would be greatly appreciated!
>
>  tobi
>
>  Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying 
> attachments._______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 5475 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/9a5ddb73/attachment.bin>

From lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net  Wed Mar 22 10:14:15 2006
From: lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net (Lx Rudis)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:14:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>



Fearless Leader wrote:
>  I tried to get
> her drunk, but i ended up drinking most
> of the wine.

>     same offer to dierdre (and rick, if he
> comes too).

now let me get this straight, jim.  you're proposing
to...  

wait, no, let's just pass on it.  i must've read the
wrong thing into your post.  

but just in case:

dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here
in the wilds of northwest san francisco.  we walk
upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them ,
eat with forks and everything.  

sure, we're a bit more rough-hewn than your typical
South Bay computer enthusiast, but once you get past
the coarse exterior, you get to see our...err.  umn. 
well, let me move right along here.  nevermind.  carry
on, jim.  sorry for the interruption...

;D

x






From rick at linuxmafia.com  Wed Mar 22 11:04:47 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:04:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net):

> dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here
> in the wilds of northwest san francisco.  we walk
> upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them ,
> eat with forks and everything.  

Lx Rudis, thanks.  I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to Deirdre[1]
last night.  I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good
speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework.

In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group:  It's
easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page, 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

[1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird".




From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 22 21:02:15 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:02:15 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus)
In-Reply-To: <20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com>
References: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <3283C4BE-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    the thing about "speaking" at sf-lug is its
informality. I believe marilyn had a novel and
fun time because of our non-format, kind of
like hunkering together around a campfire
(never mind thinking that one out, LX).
    For us, seems to me, having marilyn there
provided us a focus that was extra gratifying
(that one, too, LX).
    Let's do more such. come on down, Dierdre,
get a free dinner and ride and let's talk Ruby
and also Rails (is it true there's other
languages on Rails? Maybe David Morpheus'
programming language will ride at last).



On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net):
>
>> dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here
>> in the wilds of northwest san francisco.  we walk
>> upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them ,
>> eat with forks and everything.
>
> Lx Rudis, thanks.  I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to 
> Deirdre[1]
> last night.  I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good
> speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework.
>
> In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group:  It's
> easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page,
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php
>
> [1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird".
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From jim at well.com  Wed Mar 22 21:07:52 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:52 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here
Message-ID: <FB1A806B-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to
keep one for myself.
    I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD
price plus 1/3 shipping).

    Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms:
Linux, Mac OSX, and one other.
    I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they
will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX
and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose
to download the program, I believe you can get
your copies to run on the other platform.

    So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and
want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save
a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know.
jim at well.com
PS  you'll also spare yourself the wait and the
mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey.




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 22 22:10:46 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:10:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <dvtcpt+qdvs@eGroups.com>
Message-ID: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi Shannon,
I'm a member of SF-WOW. I also belong to the San
Francisco Linux User's Group. Belonging to and Group
is are rather nebulous terms with this collection of
individuals. But, I'm sure there is someone here whom
might be able to give your friend some direction. So,
I thought i'd through it there.

Vince

--- Shannon Silverman <stjarna at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Wowsers!
> 
> My friend needs to learn Python and Ruby scripting
> languages ASAP. 
> Does anyone have any suggestions for resources -
> preferably free - to
> help get this started?  Please reply to me and I'll
> be happy to post a
> compilation back to the list.
> 
> Thanks!
> -Shannon
> 
> 
> 
> 




From marilyn at deliberate.com  Wed Mar 22 22:25:27 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:25:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus)
In-Reply-To: <3283C4BE-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603222222120.1758-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, jim stockford wrote:

> 
>     the thing about "speaking" at sf-lug is its
> informality. I believe marilyn had a novel and
> fun time because of our non-format, kind of
> like hunkering together around a campfire
> (never mind thinking that one out, LX).
>     For us, seems to me, having marilyn there
> provided us a focus that was extra gratifying
> (that one, too, LX).
>     Let's do more such. come on down, Dierdre,
> get a free dinner and ride and let's talk Ruby
> and also Rails (is it true there's other
> languages on Rails? Maybe David Morpheus'

Dierdre, it was really fun.  A very attentive and appreciative
audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner.

I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go
up too.

Marilyn

> programming language will ride at last).
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> > Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis at sbcglobal.net):
> >
> >> dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here
> >> in the wilds of northwest san francisco.  we walk
> >> upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them ,
> >> eat with forks and everything.
> >
> > Lx Rudis, thanks.  I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to 
> > Deirdre[1]
> > last night.  I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good
> > speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework.
> >
> > In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group:  It's
> > easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page,
> > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php
> >
> > [1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird".
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sf-lug mailing list
> > sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 

-- 




From johnlowry at gmail.com  Wed Mar 22 22:35:55 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Watch your laptops!
Message-ID: <528b20610603222235w606e76dam5518ba427aa45cb4@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.sfbg.com/40/25/news_ijacked.html

One of those stolen laptops happened at Java Cat, so watch your stuff and be
aware of your surroundings.

--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060322/28c4579c/attachment.html>

From deirdre at deirdre.net  Wed Mar 22 22:46:29 2006
From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:46:29 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603222222120.1758-100000@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603222222120.1758-100000@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net>

On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Marilyn Davis wrote:

> Dierdre, it was really fun.  A very attentive and appreciative
> audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner.
>
> I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go
> up too.

After being forwarded info by the spousal unit, I've joined the list  
and would be happy to talk about Rails. :)

Oh, yeah, and that Ruby thing too.

-- 
_Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net





From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 06:57:14 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:57:14 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


python.org and baypiggies.net for python,
rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby

http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control
info and discussion.

other bay area-ish active groups with busy and
informative email discussions:
svlug.org silicon valley linux user group
lugod.org davis linux user group
penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group


On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:10 PM, vincent polite wrote:

> Hi Shannon,
> I'm a member of SF-WOW. I also belong to the San
> Francisco Linux User's Group. Belonging to and Group
> is are rather nebulous terms with this collection of
> individuals. But, I'm sure there is someone here whom
> might be able to give your friend some direction. So,
> I thought i'd through it there.
>
> Vince
>
> --- Shannon Silverman <stjarna at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wowsers!
>>
>> My friend needs to learn Python and Ruby scripting
>> languages ASAP.
>> Does anyone have any suggestions for resources -
>> preferably free - to
>> help get this started?  Please reply to me and I'll
>> be happy to post a
>> compilation back to the list.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Shannon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>




From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 07:03:20 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:03:20 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus)
In-Reply-To: <6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603222222120.1758-100000@localhost.localdomain>
	<6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net>
Message-ID: <2A7C4DCA-BA7E-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


our meetings at the javacat are
* First Sunday of the month from 11 AM till 1 PM
* Third Monday of the month from 6 PM till 8 PM

We're hoping to have a meeting once a month at
SFSU (19th at Holloway, at the top of hiway 280)
probably on some Thursday evening from 6:30
to 9:00 or so. That's likely to be in a classroom
and I've promised to bring a machine to play with.

The offer of dinner, booze, rides stands. Javacat
is a sure thing; SFSU meetings have yet to be
nailed down.
jim


On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:46 PM, Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote:

> On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Marilyn Davis wrote:
>
>> Dierdre, it was really fun.  A very attentive and appreciative
>> audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner.
>>
>> I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go
>> up too.
>
> After being forwarded info by the spousal unit, I've joined the list
> and would be happy to talk about Rails. :)
>
> Oh, yeah, and that Ruby thing too.
>
> -- 
> _Deirdre                                             http://deirdre.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 07:22:26 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:22:26 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] tech support job possibility
Message-ID: <D59884D4-BA80-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


tech support job possibility
contact  jwestien at xmission.com

Begin forwarded message:

> From: John Westien <jwestien at xmission.com>
> Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: PGP
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website.
>
> I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We 
> are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and 
> networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The 
> location is based in Palo Alto.
>
> Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a 
> position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 917 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060323/097b9efc/attachment.bin>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 23 11:42:59 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:42:59 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
	<503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> python.org and baypiggies.net for python,
> rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby
> 
> http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control
> info and discussion.
> 
> other bay area-ish active groups with busy and
> informative email discussions:
> svlug.org silicon valley linux user group
> lugod.org davis linux user group
> penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group

Some guy I shave tracks the comings and goings (and calendar events) of
most of those at http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ ("BALE").

I'm considering adding the SF PHP Meetup Group, SF Ruby Meetup Group,
San Jose PHP Meetup Group, and Bay Area Squackers (San Jose -- group for
fans of Squeak, an update of Smalltalk).  Those are referenced on Rich
Morin's extremely useful "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page:
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php

Bay Area Squackers has no Web presence other than this static entry on
http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1288:

   Squackers - first-wednesdays Bay Area Squeak meeting, email Craig
               [mailto link] for directions.

The problem with my adding an ongoing entry for a group like that is: 
How do I know the group hasn't folded (unless I happen to attend
regularly)?  As a general rule, BALE lists as recurring events only
groups whose continued existence can be confirmed via the Web, for that
reason.

As to the others, I'm pretty down on Meetup Groups, based on my
less-than-thrilling experience with that Web 2.0 company concerning
Linux Journal Meetups:  To participate (including finding out where the
events physically meet), you need to sign up for the Meetup "service",
which means they then spam you a _lot_ with various e-mail nags and
upsell efforts.  To _fully_ participate, you have to pay their annual
"membership" fee.  I get tired of being hustled, marketed, and spammed
to death by people whose business model involves selling _me_ (my
eyeball time) to their real customers and trying to cajole me into
buying "premium services" that I have no interest in.

Therefore, I am presently inclined to ignore (on BALE) all groups for
which participation requires "membership" in Meetup or similar
hassle-filled commercial Web 2.0 services.[1]  However, I am definitely
considering a cross-link to Rich Morin's page.

[1] See also:  http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
By way of comparison, some Bay Area groups like SJSU Linux User Group
(http://sjsulug.engr.sjsu.edu/) rely on Google Groups or Yahoo Groups
in lieu of running their own mailing lists -- but you can at least find
out where/when they _meet_ without having to sign up with those
commercial services.





From nbs at sonic.net  Thu Mar 23 12:43:32 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:32 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here
In-Reply-To: <FB1A806B-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <FB1A806B-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net>

On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 09:07:52PM -0800, jim stockford wrote:
> 
>     I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to
> keep one for myself.
>     I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD
> price plus 1/3 shipping).

Hi Jim! ;^)


> 
>     Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms:
> Linux, Mac OSX, and one other.
>     I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they
> will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX
> and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose
> to download the program, I believe you can get
> your copies to run on the other platform.

Hrm, the CD should contain subfolders with:

  * an installer for Windows,
  * an installer for Mac OS X,
  * RPM packages for various Red Hat and Fedora CORE Linux releases,
  * source code
  * documentation


>     So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and
> want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save
> a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know.
> jim at well.com
> PS  you'll also spare yourself the wait and the
> mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey.

Thx Jim!  What brought this on, anyhow!? ;^)

-- 
-bill!                                    Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
bill at newbreedsoftware.com                CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/       http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw



From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 18:42:08 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:42:08 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here
In-Reply-To: <20060323173751.92957.qmail@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060323173751.92957.qmail@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C99C62E6-BADF-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    you're the first one to ask (I don't know
why Vince didn't just ask me for the
other one rather than where he can
buy his copy).
I got one set aside for you LX.

On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:37 AM, Lx Rudis wrote:

> i'll buy one if you still have one to sell.
>
> --- jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>     I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to
>> keep one for myself.
>>     I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost
>> (CD
>> price plus 1/3 shipping).
>>
>>     Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms:
>> Linux, Mac OSX, and one other.
>>     I believe in the case of the CDs I have that
>> they
>> will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX
>> and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose
>> to download the program, I believe you can get
>> your copies to run on the other platform.
>>
>>     So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and
>> want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save
>> a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know.
>> jim at well.com
>> PS  you'll also spare yourself the wait and the
>> mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>>
>




From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 18:46:25 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:46:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
	<503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


> ...Some guy I shave...
must be a handsome devil.

On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:42 AM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):
>
>> python.org and baypiggies.net for python,
>> rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby
>>
>> http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control
>> info and discussion.
>>
>> other bay area-ish active groups with busy and
>> informative email discussions:
>> svlug.org silicon valley linux user group
>> lugod.org davis linux user group
>> penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group
>
> Some guy I shave tracks the comings and goings (and calendar events) of
> most of those at http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ ("BALE").
>
> I'm considering adding the SF PHP Meetup Group, SF Ruby Meetup Group,
> San Jose PHP Meetup Group, and Bay Area Squackers (San Jose -- group 
> for
> fans of Squeak, an update of Smalltalk).  Those are referenced on Rich
> Morin's extremely useful "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page:
> http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php
>
> Bay Area Squackers has no Web presence other than this static entry on
> http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1288:
>
>    Squackers - first-wednesdays Bay Area Squeak meeting, email Craig
>                [mailto link] for directions.
>
> The problem with my adding an ongoing entry for a group like that is:
> How do I know the group hasn't folded (unless I happen to attend
> regularly)?  As a general rule, BALE lists as recurring events only
> groups whose continued existence can be confirmed via the Web, for that
> reason.
>
> As to the others, I'm pretty down on Meetup Groups, based on my
> less-than-thrilling experience with that Web 2.0 company concerning
> Linux Journal Meetups:  To participate (including finding out where the
> events physically meet), you need to sign up for the Meetup "service",
> which means they then spam you a _lot_ with various e-mail nags and
> upsell efforts.  To _fully_ participate, you have to pay their annual
> "membership" fee.  I get tired of being hustled, marketed, and spammed
> to death by people whose business model involves selling _me_ (my
> eyeball time) to their real customers and trying to cajole me into
> buying "premium services" that I have no interest in.
>
> Therefore, I am presently inclined to ignore (on BALE) all groups for
> which participation requires "membership" in Meetup or similar
> hassle-filled commercial Web 2.0 services.[1]  However, I am definitely
> considering a cross-link to Rich Morin's page.
>
> [1] See also:  http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
> By way of comparison, some Bay Area groups like SJSU Linux User Group
> (http://sjsulug.engr.sjsu.edu/) rely on Google Groups or Yahoo Groups
> in lieu of running their own mailing lists -- but you can at least find
> out where/when they _meet_ without having to sign up with those
> commercial services.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 23 19:00:30 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:00:30 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here
In-Reply-To: <20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net>
References: <FB1A806B-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <5AA20B86-BAE2-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


hiya bill:
    I've gotta have some kind of paint program
to work on our (very slow-to-develop) sf-lug
web site.
    So i got yours!
    I'll be loading and using in a day or so (I got
employment these days, so time is tight) and
am pretty excited about trying it out.
    I paid for extras, partly to support the
development crew, partly to have the CDs
available for the sf-lug bunch--available
now (I might even drive it over to whomever
buys one), and with cheaper shipping!
    These are the untouched, exact CDs that
CafePress sent to my (our) PO box. That
they won't run on a particular platform is
actually a matter of my refusing to share
my property or do anything that in any way
promotes a particular other platform (the
binaries probably work fine).
    I may not be as particular as he who
shaves, but I'm getting kind of piqued at
surveys lately.
jim

On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Bill Kendrick wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 09:07:52PM -0800, jim stockford wrote:
>>
>>     I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to
>> keep one for myself.
>>     I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD
>> price plus 1/3 shipping).
>
> Hi Jim! ;^)
>
>
>>
>>     Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms:
>> Linux, Mac OSX, and one other.
>>     I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they
>> will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX
>> and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose
>> to download the program, I believe you can get
>> your copies to run on the other platform.
>
> Hrm, the CD should contain subfolders with:
>
>   * an installer for Windows,
>   * an installer for Mac OS X,
>   * RPM packages for various Red Hat and Fedora CORE Linux releases,
>   * source code
>   * documentation
>
>
>>     So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and
>> want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save
>> a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know.
>> jim at well.com
>> PS  you'll also spare yourself the wait and the
>> mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey.
>
> Thx Jim!  What brought this on, anyhow!? ;^)
>
> -- 
> -bill!                                    Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
> bill at newbreedsoftware.com                CDROM, bumper sticker & 
> apparel
> http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/       
> http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 23 20:06:51 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:06:51 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby
In-Reply-To: <63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
	<503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
	<20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com>
	<63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>
Message-ID: <20060324040651.GE27469@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting jim stockford (jim at well.com):

> >...Some guy I shave...
> must be a handsome devil.

Nah, he's a Scandinavian, and they're neither good-looking nor
trustworthy.  (At least, my Aunt Bjorg warned me never to trust them.)

Take my word for that.

-- 
Cheers,
Rick Moen                      "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick at linuxmafia.com                               -- Psalm 0.1 beta



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 24 12:41:46 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:41:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes...
Message-ID: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to  where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060324/25ac96f8/attachment.html>

From darose at darose.net  Fri Mar 24 12:49:24 2006
From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:24 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes...
In-Reply-To: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <44245B54.105@darose.net>

vincent polite wrote:
> Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to 
> where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks


newegg.com is a good place to look.

DR



From johnlowry at gmail.com  Fri Mar 24 13:57:24 2006
From: johnlowry at gmail.com (John Lowry)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:24 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes...
In-Reply-To: <44245B54.105@darose.net>
References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
	<44245B54.105@darose.net>
Message-ID: <528b20610603241357j60813a12r408f1ce88d7195d2@mail.gmail.com>

www.pricewatch.com
www.tigerdirect.com

On 3/24/06, David Rosenstrauch <darose at darose.net> wrote:
>
> vincent polite wrote:
> > Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to
> > where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks
>
>
> newegg.com is a good place to look.
>
> DR
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



--
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060324/16e23fec/attachment.html>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 24 18:08:10 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:08:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question...
Message-ID: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com>

Ok, I think I asked this before. But, I was to wiped out back then to  follow through. Not that I'm totally better now. How difficult would it  be, for me, to set up a linux mailserver, for about 25 accounts,  probably less. It might also be used to unite, dare I say, Windows  machines. Host a website? Don't laugh to hard 
  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060324/3f84fe1f/attachment.html>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 24 19:11:22 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:11:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] questions and thanks
In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.3.1142971203.13268.sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060325031122.GI17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting tobi x (grrrebelsoul at yahoo.com):

[Debian:]

> - that its the only large distro that functions with open development
> on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of
> programmers]  to revise and adapt.  Please correct me if I'm wrong
> about this....

It's not the only example of such a project, but is perhaps the largest
and best known.  (It also has a few operational problems, which would be
a long discussion in itself.)  I run Debian widely -- but strongly
recommend against it for first-time Linux users.  That's _also_
something of a long discussion.

Like many long discussions I've done to death in the past, this is
something I've partially FAQed:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro

>   Is Debian good for multimedia work?

Well, mostly no, partially yes -- but less because it's Debian than
because it's Linux.  Let's talk about that.  That's yet _another_ long
discussion, but is the one I was intending to get around to.  Today's
the day.  ;->

People mean a couple of different things when they say "multimedia
work".  One is playing, creating, and streaming out to other people the
various popular AV formats, such as various types of AVIs/ASFs and Windows
Media stuff with or without DRM, all kinds o' MPEG4 variants,
Sorenson-encoded and other QuickTime stuff, RealMedia files/protocols,
Flash, Shockwave, DivX stuff, .MP3s, Flac files, .ogg sound recordings,
.wav and .au sound files, and so on.

Other people tend to mean assembling, burning, and reading of movie
DVDs, or running the computer equivalent of a sound and/or video
recording / mixing / production studio.

Some people mean graphic design work, such as what you might do in
PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign, and so on.

Some people mean mixtures of those things.

> My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for
> graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film
> editing.  I want to learn Python, and how to make a website.

Which gives me a better idea what you're talking about. ;->

> So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages -
> can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit
> these  things?

First things first:  I have a modest "AV" category in my knowledgebase
that might be useful:  http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps/AudioVideo

Second, about particular obstacles for Linux.  In a nutshell:

o  a lot of really nasty software patents, with big money behind them
o  Hollywood, the RIAA, and the DMCA
o  Sleazy, pushy, control-freak sofware companies pushing secret, 
   proprietary data and network formats and DRM

A lot of key multimedia technology is severely tied up in unexpired
software patents.  For example, MPEG4 is patent-encumbered, along with
almost all other digital video formats.  The very popular Sorenson video
codec is patent-covered, and licensed exclusively to Apple Computer
(which in turn permits it to be implemented only in its QuickTime
software).  Colour separation techniques for digital prepress production
is heavily patent-covered.  Even the MP3 music format is patented.

The latter is the key reason why The GIMP is not a suitable tool for
prepress work, making PhotoShop or InDesign essential if you're in that
industry:  Adobe either owns the patents itself, or is willing to pay
royalties on the copy you buy and use.  (Heck, it's just a bunch of
money added to the purchase price.  What do they care?)  It's not that
The GIMP's programmers don't know perfectly well how to write the code
to do colour separations:  It's that, if they did, they'd get sued.

Hollywood and the music industry are, famously, utterly paranoid about
losing control over their product when it's in digital form, so they've
used lobbying power to cram down our throats some ruthless and rather 
psychotic Federal copyright legislation, called the Digital Milennium 
Copyright Act -- which among other things makes certain sorts of 
copryight violation a _criminal_ act for the first time (it's always 
just been a civil tort) and makes it illegal to develop, test, or even 
promulgate information about how to defeat a "device that controls
access" to copyrighted content.

The Linux programmer community knows perfectly well how to play
Hollywood's movie DVDs on Linux, for example -- and also the Apple
iTunes Music Store's DRM-obscured "Fairplay" MP4/AAC music files.
However, the software projects that do that live under constant legal
threat. 

Then there are threats like the Real Networks company, which likewise
threatens programmers that implement third-party support for the
DRM-covered parts of their streaming protocols and formats.  And so on.

As a result, there is _some_ coverage of almost all digital AV data
formats and network protocols.  Because part of the whole point of Linux
is to prefer open source and _especially_ code that may not be freely
distributed (open source being a subset of freely-distributable), 
and because the control-freak companies cannot abide the loss of their
central control that is inherent in open source, the code that provides
those functions is usually _not_ included in Linux distributions proper.
You often need to retrofit it, post-OS-installation, onto your machine, 
often pulling down packages from software repositories elsewhere in
the world that have less psychotic legal regimes than ours.

The Linux distributions that come pre-equipped with the broadest range
of built-in support for those sort of AV -- therefore -- are ones sold
in retail packages, with per-seat licensing of the contents.  Why?  
Because the publisher has to pay patent royalties and obey licensing
restrictions on some contents -- and the rights-holders in question
wouldn't permit that code to be duplicated freely.  One such Linux
distribution is Xandros Desktop OS, from Canada.  (It's a desktop 
variant of Debian.)

Big-picture:  The legal and industry environment is quite hostile to
that sort of AV on Linux -- especially towards implementations done 
as open source.  The more you cave in to those interests, the easier
life is.  (If you want that, stick to MS-Windows and Mac OS X, which 
are from companies that to differing degrees are in bed with those
interests -- and are players, themselves.)  The more you want open
source and autonomy, the more hassle is involved.  A lot can be done;
some can't (lawfully).  And there's work involved.



> Also, Adrian said: "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."
>   
>   What is RPM based?  And what exactly is GNU?

Wow, those are two other big topics.

>   If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it
>   is  like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current
>   state if  I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?

I think this is, sort of, the wrong question -- because it assumes that
you must install Linux in order to try it.   You're presumably unaware
of an entire huge subculture within Linux involving "live CD"
distributions.  These are ones you don't install (or rather, don't
_have_ to install), but rather run them directly from a CD-ROM disk,
after booting from that disk.  The best known is Knoppix.  There are
many others.

>  I  really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still
>  have  a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and
>  I don't  want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me,
>  are  screwed and I don't know how to fix it!

Download and try a few live CDs, then!

See:  http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php





From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 24 19:51:46 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:46 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question...
In-Reply-To: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> How difficult would it  be, for me, to set up a linux mailserver, for
> about 25 accounts, probably less. 

Depends on the Linux distribution.

Basically, all general Linux distributions provide the software for
that -- an SMTP server (that role being called "MTA" = mail transfer
agent) and an IMAP or POP3 server (that role being called "MDA" = mail
delivery agent).  Some give you a generic configuration for those, and 
leave you to customise it yourself.  Some, instead, ask you a series of
questions and based on your answers write the configuration files for
that software, on your behalf.

Easiest way to find out is to try.

> It might also be used to unite, dare I say, Windows machines. 

If you mean "be a file/print server for Windows machines", same answer.
The package that does that is called Samba.

> Host a website?

Same answer.  The usual software is the Apache HTTP daemon.





From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 25 08:29:37 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:29:37 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug]  Getting quotes... from Tom DiZoglio
Message-ID: <8D0E83BA-BC1C-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Hey,

I like this place:

http://www.centralcomputer.com/

Right next to moscone center is the San Frnacisco location. All over Bay
Area too. I also like San Francisco Computers @ about 17th - 4300 Geary
Blvd. not to good online - http://www.sf-computer.com/.
-------------------------
t0md




From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 25 08:43:22 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:43:22 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes...
In-Reply-To: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <78EEE332-BC1E-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


I like ActNet: in SF, on Judah at 27th, 415 661 9000
http://www.actnetonline.com/

At one point I researched prices: they were very
slightly more expensive than Dell. The pluses
include:
* persons available to talk, think, face to face,
   they're knowledgeable and helpful.
* very good repair shop
* no shipping (other than waddling back and
   forth between their joint and yours)



On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:41 PM, vincent polite wrote:

> Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to 
> where I can see what the going prices are for various components? 
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 25 09:13:36 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:13:36 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug]  [new-sfwow] {tech} learning Python and Ruby
Message-ID: <B1E9360E-BC22-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>




From: "Jason Dusek" <jason.dusek at gmail.com>
Date: March 23, 2006 11:47:45 AM PST
To: "vincent polite" <vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com>
Cc: "Shannon Silverman" <stjarna at gmail.com>,  "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" 
<sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby


this online book:

     http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/

is very helpful. i learned the language from it, to the point where i
now use ruby wherever i used to use perl and sh.
--
_jsn

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 798 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060325/90a3d5bb/attachment.bin>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 25 10:20:20 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question...
In-Reply-To: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>

Thanks Rick,
What distro would you recommend? About how long would
you estimate this would take? Mind if I keep asking
you questions?

--- Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting vincent polite
> (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):
> 
> > How difficult would it  be, for me, to set up a
> linux mailserver, for
> > about 25 accounts, probably less. 
> 
> Depends on the Linux distribution.
> 
> Basically, all general Linux distributions provide
> the software for
> that -- an SMTP server (that role being called "MTA"
> = mail transfer
> agent) and an IMAP or POP3 server (that role being
> called "MDA" = mail
> delivery agent).  Some give you a generic
> configuration for those, and 
> leave you to customise it yourself.  Some, instead,
> ask you a series of
> questions and based on your answers write the
> configuration files for
> that software, on your behalf.
> 
> Easiest way to find out is to try.
> 
> > It might also be used to unite, dare I say,
> Windows machines. 
> 
> If you mean "be a file/print server for Windows
> machines", same answer.
> The package that does that is called Samba.
> 
> > Host a website?
> 
> Same answer.  The usual software is the Apache HTTP
> daemon.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 25 10:46:43 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:46:43 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] multimedia
Message-ID: <B426883E-BC2F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


thanks, rick, for the info. I chip in:
    Linux Journal April 2006 issue includes an article
titled Podcasting for the Penguin by Jon Watson
( http://www.jonwatson.ca/ ) Check out that link!

    In the article he mentions interviewing Richard
Stallman (GNU founder and FOSS early visionary).
RS urges use of Ogg Vorbis format files, which are
free of license/patent/"psychosis" baggage:
http://www.vorbis.com/
    If Stallman is for it, it's high priority interesting
(not to say knee-jerk adoptable).

    Having read rick's info/opinion/email-blog on
multimedia (more thanks!) at the same time this
article was my reading assignment in the family
bathroom, the tho't occurs: promote the use of
free-use technology; i hope the greater community
creates a whole new technology set AND CONTENT
that escapes the gravity of the existing
we-want-your-money-at-any-sacrifice-of-other-values
media biz suit sets and marketers.




From jim at well.com  Sat Mar 25 10:47:58 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:47:58 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] newbie web site
Message-ID: <E12A12AE-BC2F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


http://www.newlinuxuser.com/




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Mar 25 12:17:50 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:17:50 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question...
In-Reply-To: <20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Mind if I keep asking you questions?

Nah, but, at some point, you really have to just stop dipping your toe
and take a dive.  It's ultimately the only real way to find out.

> What distro would you recommend? About how long would
> you estimate this would take? 

I've already posted my standard, generic answer to the "which distro"
question:  It's one of the mini-essays on the "Linux Tire-Kicking" 
portion of my personal rants page:

http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro

It recommends several _desktop_ Linux variants widely believed to be
good for newcomers, plus referring you for more information to Karsten's
Diestribution Guide, DistroWatch's Major Distributions page, and the
Linux Distribution Chooser survey.

Basic installation of any Linux distribution tends to take about 1/2
hour to an hour.  (As I mentioned yesterday, there area also plenty of
"live CD" distributions you can kick around without installing them at
all.)  Further configuring your installed Linux distribution to do
particuar thins rather than remain in a generic state requires anywhere
from minutes to a lifetime, depending on how much you're doing and how
complex it is.  ;->

One defensible answer to your question is "You should use whatever
distribution you can get effective local help with, if necessary."
But personally, I prefer "Just pick one.  If you don't like it, pick
another."

-- 
Cheers,                   I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, 
Rick Moen                 which, when you looked at it in the right way, did 
rick at linuxmafia.com       not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson



From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 25 12:34:39 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:34:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question...
In-Reply-To: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>

Yeah, and I always go for the kiddie pool. Of course,
with my girth. I'd probably displace all the
water...8}

--- Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

> Quoting vincent polite
> (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):
> 
> > Mind if I keep asking you questions?
> 
> Nah, but, at some point, you really have to just
> stop dipping your toe
> and take a dive.  It's ultimately the only real way
> to find out.
> 
> > What distro would you recommend? About how long
> would
> > you estimate this would take? 
> 
> I've already posted my standard, generic answer to
> the "which distro"
> question:  It's one of the mini-essays on the "Linux
> Tire-Kicking" 
> portion of my personal rants page:
> 
>
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro
> 
> It recommends several _desktop_ Linux variants
> widely believed to be
> good for newcomers, plus referring you for more
> information to Karsten's
> Diestribution Guide, DistroWatch's Major
> Distributions page, and the
> Linux Distribution Chooser survey.
> 
> Basic installation of any Linux distribution tends
> to take about 1/2
> hour to an hour.  (As I mentioned yesterday, there
> area also plenty of
> "live CD" distributions you can kick around without
> installing them at
> all.)  Further configuring your installed Linux
> distribution to do
> particuar thins rather than remain in a generic
> state requires anywhere
> from minutes to a lifetime, depending on how much
> you're doing and how
> complex it is.  ;->
> 
> One defensible answer to your question is "You
> should use whatever
> distribution you can get effective local help with,
> if necessary."
> But personally, I prefer "Just pick one.  If you
> don't like it, pick
> another."
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,                   I have yet to see any
> problem, however complicated, 
> Rick Moen                 which, when you looked at
> it in the right way, did 
> rick at linuxmafia.com       not become still more
> complicated. -- Poul Anderson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 25 12:40:20 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:40:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Further advetures into mucking up a new computer...
Message-ID: <20060325204020.55513.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com>

Well, I went into CompUSA, looking for a cordless
phone, with an answering machine, and, at least two
voicemail boxes. I found a rack of shit they were
getting rid of. I bought a case, after rebates, is
only $40. They also had 80gig hard drives, after
rebates, is only $9.99. What will he think of next... 



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Sat Mar 25 13:16:06 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:16:06 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] CABAL is TONIGHT, West Menlo Park
In-Reply-To: <20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060325211606.GA6729@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com):

> Yeah, and I always go for the kiddie pool. 

Well, as it turns out, Ubuntu Linux is a pretty good kiddies pool, and
I've just downloaded the latest beta of the next-release v. 6.06 "Dapper
Drake" installation CDs for x86, AMD64, and PowerPC.  And THIS EVENING,
4 pm to midnight, is CABAL's meeting/installfest in West Menlo Park.

You could come, get in-person assistance, or just hang out.  (And yes,
there's food:  Some people always bring stuff.  Don't sweat that.)

Now, there were two words of mildly ill omen in that passage:

"beta":  This is a release that isn't expected to have its rough edges
removed until June ("v. 6.06" is parsed as 6th month of 21st Century,
month 06), but getting access to the latest and greatest tends
to involve risking a few bugs.  Of course, my "few bugs" might be your
Trail of Tears.  Or not.

"downloaded":  Handing a newcomer to Linux a CD and saying "Go for it"
tends to create "OK, what do I do now?" syndrome.  This is why I warn
newcomers, e.g., at
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#cheaplinux, that
they might want to suppress the impulse towards cheap-bastardtry and buy
one of the retail boxed-set distributions that come with a reassuring
printed installation manual embossed with "Don't Panic" and paid
technical support.

(Hmm, I just realised that that mini-essay talks about "making your own
boot floppies".  Time to update, I think.)




From morpheus2485 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 26 16:41:06 2006
From: morpheus2485 at gmail.com (David Reber)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:41:06 +0000
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen?
Message-ID: <ccbd486b0603261641h4ab0ead9j6ab09f02c8c8269c@mail.gmail.com>

For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my
head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:

We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage every
day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do
everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact,
they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed).

Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens  who
would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle
computer.

So my idea is to bring the two togeather:  have a space, and one or more
linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The final
ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried
about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness.  I envision
it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with
whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a slightly expanded
install fest.

The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the ground
is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I
have nill resources in terms of space.

can you help?
~david
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060327/1e83ed7b/attachment.html>

From alamozzz at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 27 09:22:10 2006
From: alamozzz at yahoo.com (Adrien Lamothe)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:22:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen?
In-Reply-To: <ccbd486b0603261641h4ab0ead9j6ab09f02c8c8269c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060327172210.93667.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi David,

Someone who tried to do that told me the schools only want newer hardware, even if it is free. His offers of older hardware were declined. Perhaps the administrators think that any hardware in the classrooms will prevent funding for new hardware, so they are better off not having anything until they can get funded.

- Adrien

David Reber <morpheus2485 at gmail.com> wrote: For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:
 
 We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage every day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed).
 
 Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens  who would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle computer.  
 
 So my idea is to bring the two togeather:  have a space, and one or more linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The final ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness.  I envision it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a slightly expanded install fest.
 
 The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the ground is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I have nill resources in terms of space. 
 
 can you help?
 ~david
 _______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060327/3f4a1fa0/attachment.html>

From morpheus2485 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 27 11:50:47 2006
From: morpheus2485 at gmail.com (David Reber)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:47 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen?
In-Reply-To: <SUWCL24IP010hwy63iT0003953c@suwcl24ip01.prod.com>
References: <SUWCL24IP010hwy63iT0003953c@suwcl24ip01.prod.com>
Message-ID: <ccbd486b0603271150y47b4d6a9p74f15a760347f7d2@mail.gmail.com>

The primary goal would be to get computers into the hands of lower income
families.

Using Linux would be a way to avoid licencing issues, and easier on the
older hardware the project would likely receive.

Beyond getting hardware into the hands of lower income families, the project
would serve as a space to help people with problems and nurture projects
like people creating their own alternatives to myspace (that sounds like a
really good idea by the way).

~david


On 27 Mar 2006 19:00:52 GMT, David Sterry <david at sterryit.com> wrote:
>
> Hi David,
>
> I think the biggest problem with this idea is defining the goal of the
> project. Is it to get computers into the hands of lower income families? Is
> it to spread linux?
>
> If it's the latter I think you've really got to play into linux
> strengths...being that it's great if you want to run a web server or develop
> web apps and services. So who'd want to this kind of stuff? I'm thinking the
> head geeks in schools. They probably have all they want in terms of hardware
> so I think it's really just introducing them to a good starting linux
> project. Myspace is so popuular amongst kids that saying create your own
> myspace might be a cool project that would attract school kids attention.
> Just my 2 cents...
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Sterry
> david at sterryit.com
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: "David Reber" <morpheus2485 at gmail.com>
> Date: 3/26/06 4:41 pm
> To: "sf-lug at linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
> Subj: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen?
>
> For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my
> head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:
>
>
> We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage
> every
> day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do
> everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact,
> they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed).
>
>
> Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and
> teens  who
> would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle
> computer.
>
>
> So my idea is to bring the two togeather:  have a space, and one or more
> linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The final
> ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried
> about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness.  I
> envision
> it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with
> whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a slightly
> expanded
> install fest.
>
>
> The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the
> ground
> is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I
> have nill resources in terms of space.
>
>
> can you help?
> ~david
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060327/e3c9c231/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Tue Mar 28 07:13:45 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:13:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meeting at SFSU Tuesday April 11
Message-ID: <7348E46A-BE6D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com>


    Meeting is 6:30 PM till 9:00 PM. I'll have a
machine there. Room to be determined. I'll
be grateful to anyone who comes with, even
give ride to and from.
jim




From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 29 15:39:04 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:39:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (jobs) IT Career Fair on Thursday at
	Esurance
Message-ID: <20060329233905.29923.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com>

I thought I'd pass this along to anyone looking for a job.

Susan MacTavish Best <susan at perfectorange.com> wrote:  To: <new-sfwow at yahoogroups.com>
From: Susan MacTavish Best <susan at perfectorange.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:12:06 -1200 (GMT)
Subject: [new-sfwow] (jobs) IT Career Fair on Thursday at Esurance

        Hi Folks,
  
  Hey, my client Esurance is having a Career Fair tomorrow that I thought  may be of interest. I have loved working with this company (though  obviously I don't work internally). But they have treated us really  well so I imagine they are good to work for too internally.
  
  Esurance IT Career Fair
  
  Thursday, March 30th from 12:30pm to 7:30pm
  747 Front Street, 4th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94111
  ??? Development Manager
  ??? Senior Build Release Eng
  ??? Project Manager - Dev
  ??? Senior Developer
  ??? Sr. SQL Server DBA
  ??? Project Lead
  ??? Disaster Recovery Engineer
  ??? IPCC System Engineer
  ??? QA Automation Engineer
  ??? Security Engineer
  ??? Software Developer
  ??? Developers
  www.esurance.com
  
  I don't know anything about these positions, just passing this along.
  
  Susan.
  
  
  ___________________
  Susan MacTavish Best
  Best Public Relations
  http://www.bestpr.net
  
  Publicist for Citizen Cake, *craigslist, Diabetes Adventure Tours,  Esurance, Lulu.com, The Pearl Outlet, The Real Race and Smugmug 
  
  38 Miller Ave, #334
  Mill Valley, CA 94941 (Mailing)
  Tel: 415 505 0301
  Fax: 415 358 4785
  ___________________________ 
  
          

    Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
  More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
  Need Help? Mailto:listmom at sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html  

                    
        
---------------------------------
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  
  
      
    Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web.
     
    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 new-sfwow-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
     
    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.  
  
      
---------------------------------
  
  
          
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060329/e42cf580/attachment.html>

From jim at well.com  Thu Mar 30 07:21:40 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:21:40 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: O'Reilly UG News--Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available
	for MySQL Users Conference
Message-ID: <E3409D92-C000-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com>



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Marsee Henon <marsee at oreilly.com>
> Date: March 29, 2006 9:59:38 AM PST
> To: jim at well.com
> Subject: O'Reilly UG News--Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available for 
> MySQL Users Conference
>
> Hi--
>
> Can you pass this along if you think any of your members might
> be interested?
>
> You still have time to sign up for a MySQL exhibit hall pass ($25.00).
> The hall is open Tuesday, April 25 from 10:00am-4:30pm and then
> you are welcome to attend the exhibitor reception--food and drinks
> included--from 6:00pm-7:30pm.
>
> On Wednesday, April 26, the exhibit hall is open from 10:00am-5:00pm.
>
> The conference exhibit hall, the biggest one yet, will feature MySQL
> and open source products and services. You'll also be able to learn
> more about worthwhile projects in the DotOrg Pavilion, located inside
> the hall.
>
> To purchase an exhibit hall pass, go to:
> http://www.mysqluc.com/pub/w/45/register.html
>
> (Sorry, UG discount does not apply on exhibit hall passes.)
>
> For more information on the MySQL Users Conference 2006
> in Santa Clara, California, go to:
> http://www.mysqluc.com/
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marsee
>
> ================================================================
> O'Reilly
> 1005 Gravenstein Highway North
> Sebastopol, CA   95472
> http://ug.oreilly.com/  http://www.oreilly.com
> ================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1632 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/10c2f113/attachment.bin>

From vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 30 09:17:38 2006
From: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com (vincent polite)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:17:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Subscribe free to Network Support and Sys Admin
Message-ID: <20060330171738.47934.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com>

Thought I'd forward this along. Anybody interested.

TradePub Telecommunications  Publications <Announcements at Tradepub.nl00.net> wrote:  From: "TradePub Telecommunications  Publications"
    <Announcements at Tradepub.nl00.net>
Subject: Subscribe free to Network Support and Sys Admin
To: vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:45:01 -0800

                                                                      Dear vincent,      
                                                                                     We are sending  you this offer because you have subscribed to similar  Telecommunications Publications in the past. As such, we wanted to give  you the chance to subscribe to Network Support  and also to Sys Admin.
    Be sure to forward  this email to business associates - they may wish to apply to receive a  complimentary publication in their industry as well. 
                                                                                                                                                                     Network Support NaSPA,  the Network and Systems Professionals Association, Inc. is dedicated to  the IT professionals who implement, support and manage their company's  integrated operating environments. Network Support magazine  encompasses a variety of informative topics that are sure to appeal to  all IT professionals, from the data center to the desktop. Network Support  delves into the perennial concerns of host-based and networked  environments through the following highly focused topics: Storage,  Security, Backup and Recovery, SQL server, Certifications and training,  Linux, Wireless technology, Disaster Recovery, XML and Shareware.
  Sys Admin Every  month we'll give you the information you need to handle the daily  challenges of systems administration efficiently and effectively.  You'll find ways to improve the performance or extend the capabilities  of your system. Coverage includes: integrating heterogeneous  systems-UNIX, NT, W4W, NetWare; security; backup; crash recovery;  system analysis and monitoring; and system automation.  
                                   MORE Trade Publications FREE to Qualified Professionals include:                                                                                                                                                Security Technology & Design  Is the fastest growing publication in the security technology industry.  ...                                                                                       Diesel & Gas Turbine Worldwide   Is the Marine & Stationary Power Authority, covering the markets,  products, technology and industry news of the large piston engine and  gas turbine industries.  ...                                                                  Total Telecom  Is "The Economist of the communications industry".  ...                                                                                                                   Other Professional Publications can be found at: Telecommunications , more...                                   
                                                       Browse the list of job functions and industries on the application form  to see if you might qualify. Also note the geographic availability.  Then simply complete the form and submit it. 
    If you have co-workers, friends or family who work in a related field, please pass this offer on to them - they'll thank you!  
    Cheers,
        
  TradePub.com Team
  customer-service at TradePub.com
  www.TradePub.com        Subscribe: click here
  Unsubscribe: You are subscribed as vpolitewebsiteguy at yahoo.com. If  you want to change your contact preferences or if you want to be  removed from this list, click here.
      Privacy Policy | FAQ | Legal Notices
Copyright ? 2005 NetLine Corporation. All rights reserved.
16795 Lark Avenue, Suite 210, Los Gatos, CA 95032  
          
                         
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/dc58c88e/attachment.html>

From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 30 16:44:46 2006
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:44:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
Message-ID: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to  install
and use it)
all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++
programs
from/to the terminal program.
Alex 

alex at kleider.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



From nbs at sonic.net  Thu Mar 30 17:23:41 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:23:41 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net>

On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to  install
> and use it)
> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++
> programs
> from/to the terminal program.

Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here?

e.g.:

  someprogram > outfile.txt

or:

  someprogram | tee outfile.txt

???

Or am I missing something? (aka, please be more specific!)

-- 
-bill!                                    Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar,
bill at newbreedsoftware.com                CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel
http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/       http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw



From rick at rbsmith.com  Thu Mar 30 19:01:09 2006
From: rick at rbsmith.com (Rick Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:01:09 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <442C9B75.8010809@rbsmith.com>

Bill Kendrick wrote:
 > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
 >> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to  install
 >> and use it)
 >> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++
 >> programs
 >> from/to the terminal program.
 >
 > Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here?
 >
 > e.g.:
 >
 >   someprogram > outfile.txt
 >
 > or:
 >
 >   someprogram | tee outfile.txt

I was thinking along the same lines, additionally getting stderr in
there too:
     someprogram > outfile.txt 2>&1
or
     someprogram 2>&1 | tee outfile.txt
but not
     someprogram 2>&1 > outfile.txt

The last one confuses me until I think about 2>&1 makes stderr
go into stdout at the time it is parsed.
In the last one, stdout has not been redirected to outfile.txt yet,
so stderr will go to where stdout is (the terminal).
Best to play around and see.

Rick




From a_kleider at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 30 19:36:58 2006
From: a_kleider at yahoo.com (Alex Kleider)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:36:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] screen capture
Message-ID: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out;
Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the
highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very
similar to Windows' Notepad.
Todd and other sf-lugers: sorry to trouble you with the request.
For anyone doing C++ programming: can you figure out why the attached
program works for all data types EXCEPT char?
Alex
ps memAllocation.cpp created with emacs; screenCapture.txt created with kwrite.

alex at kleider.net

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: memAllocation.cpp
Type: text/x-c++src
Size: 1680 bytes
Desc: 658357096-memAllocation.cpp
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/6ae68a13/attachment.cpp>
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: screenCapture.txt
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/6ae68a13/attachment.txt>

From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Mar 30 20:49:03 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:49:03 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] screen capture
In-Reply-To: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060331044903.GH5311@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider at yahoo.com):

> Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out;
> Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the
> highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very
> similar to Windows' Notepad.

If you want to log _extended_ terminal activity, don't overlook the
/usr/bin/script utility, which opens a new subshell, all of whose screen
output gets logged from that point forward to an ASCII file, default
name "typescript".  When you're done, typing Ctrl-D or "exit" closes the
subshell (and thus terminates logging).

-- 
Cheers,                   I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, 
Rick Moen                 which, when you looked at it in the right way, did 
rick at linuxmafia.com       not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson



From marilyn at deliberate.com  Thu Mar 30 21:11:41 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:11:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <442C9B75.8010809@rbsmith.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603302104100.17078-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Rick Smith wrote:

> Bill Kendrick wrote:
>  > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote:
>  >> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to  install
>  >> and use it)
>  >> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++
>  >> programs
>  >> from/to the terminal program.
>  >
>  > Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here?
>  >
>  > e.g.:
>  >
>  >   someprogram > outfile.txt
>  >
>  > or:
>  >
>  >   someprogram | tee outfile.txt
> 
> I was thinking along the same lines, additionally getting stderr in
> there too:

Two other possibilities are the script command, and an emacs shell buffer.

The script command:

bash-2.05a$ script
Script started, file is typescript       ( from now on, everything that comes to my screen
bash-2.05a$ ls *.py                      ( also lands in the typescript file
ls: *.py: No such file or directory      ( so here I'm just doing some random stuff
bash-2.05a$ date                         ( to put some stuff in the typescript file
Thu Mar 30 21:05:59 PST 2006
bash-2.05a$ exit                         ( This exit gets me out of the script command
Script done, file is typescript
bash-2.05a$ cat typescript               ( Now, here is what was recorded
Script started on Thu Mar 30 21:05:35 2006
bash-2.05a$ ls: *.py: No such file or directory
bash-2.05a$ Thu Mar 30 21:05:59 PST 2006
bash-2.05a$ 
Script done on Thu Mar 30 21:06:02 2006
bash-2.05a$                               ( Finally back to my live bash shell

The emacs command to get a shell is ESC-x shell.

Then everything you do is in an emacs buffer and you can cut and paste
from it, or just rename the whole thing.

Hope it helps,

Marilyn




>      someprogram > outfile.txt 2>&1
> or
>      someprogram 2>&1 | tee outfile.txt
> but not
>      someprogram 2>&1 > outfile.txt
> 
> The last one confuses me until I think about 2>&1 makes stderr
> go into stdout at the time it is parsed.
> In the last one, stdout has not been redirected to outfile.txt yet,
> so stderr will go to where stdout is (the terminal).
> Best to play around and see.
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> 

-- 




From marilyn at deliberate.com  Thu Mar 30 21:14:25 2006
From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:14:25 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [sf-lug] screen capture
In-Reply-To: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0603302112090.17078-100000@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Alex Kleider wrote:

> Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out;
> Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the
> highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very
> similar to Windows' Notepad.


Oh, if you're in X, you might enjoy trying a screen capture with pimp.


> Todd and other sf-lugers: sorry to trouble you with the request.
> For anyone doing C++ programming: can you figure out why the attached
> program works for all data types EXCEPT char?

I don't see an attachment, but char is the one-byte data type, the
others are more bytes.  Could that be the source of your problem?

Marilyn


> Alex
> ps memAllocation.cpp created with emacs; screenCapture.txt created with kwrite.
> 
> alex at kleider.net
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 

-- 




From jim at well.com  Fri Mar 31 07:21:00 2006
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday at the Javacat 11 AM to 1 PM
Message-ID: <F60C6367-C0C9-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com>


See you there, Javacat on Geary at 20th in SF.

I got a package from Marsee Henon at O'reilly:
it's got three books in it. I don't recall ordering
them, tho' I like them. If any of you ordered
books in the name of sf-lug, let me know (fast).
I plan to bring the books Sunday for perusal
and divvying up.

Adrien Lamothe wrote an article for O'Reilly's
ONLamp.com magazine:
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/03/23/apple_vs_everyone.html

Here's the blurb from the Linux News newsletter:
Apple's actually migrated to Intel-based processors just as the PS3 is
about to get ready to come out.  The Cell processor may resurrect the
PowerPC architecture.  The PS3 may be a general-purpose Linux box sold
stealthily as a game device.  What does this all mean for Linux?  Is 
Apple
getting pinned between IBM and Linux?  What do processor architectures
have to do with operating systems and the future of software?  Adrien
Lamothe speculates how Apple's risks might open more doors for truly 
free
software:





From gnelson at gmail.com  Fri Mar 31 10:43:17 2006
From: gnelson at gmail.com (Greg Nelson)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>

Alex,

I also am looking for a screen capture tool, so perhaps we can share any
leads.

So far, I typed "x windows screen capture" into Google and among the first
hits was a survey at the URL

http://tejaconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey.html

There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your
needs.  (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still image
screenshot, and although there were some tools listed in the survey that
were claimed to capture video, which I might be able to use, none of them
appeared to be Linux-based, which I would prefer. So I will continue
looking.  I'll share with you any further leads that I find.  If you have a
requirement that excludes the tools listed in the Teja consulting survey,
you should let me know, so that I don't bother you with useless leads.

Cheers,

Greg Nelson
greg at perlnelson.org
839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303
(650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile)

On 3/30/06, Alex Kleider <a_kleider at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to  install
> and use it)
> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++
> programs
> from/to the terminal program.
> Alex
>
> alex at kleider.net
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>



--
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060331/4b45b754/attachment.html>

From darose at darose.net  Fri Mar 31 10:50:58 2006
From: darose at darose.net (David Rosenstrauch)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:50:58 -0500
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <442D7A12.7040103@darose.net>

Greg Nelson wrote:
> Alex,
> 
> I also am looking for a screen capture tool, so perhaps we can share any 
> leads.


If you use KDE, ksnapshot works nicely.

DR




From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 31 11:51:17 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:51:17 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Greg Nelson (gnelson at gmail.com):

> http://tejaconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey.html
            ^^
Typo.  Should be:
http://tejasconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey.html
           
> There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your
> needs.

More here:  
"Screen Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps

> (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still image
> screenshot...

Ah.  See:
"Desktop Video-Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps

Please let me know of any I've missed.   ;->

-- 
Cheers,                   I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, 
Rick Moen                 which, when you looked at it in the right way, did 
rick at linuxmafia.com       not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson



From nbs at sonic.net  Fri Mar 31 12:27:25 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:25 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060331202725.GA11437@sonic.net>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 10:43:17AM -0800, Greg Nelson wrote:
> There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your
> needs.  (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still image
> screenshot, and although there were some tools listed in the survey that
> were claimed to capture video, which I might be able to use, none of them
> appeared to be Linux-based, which I would prefer.

I have captured videos of X-Window sessions under Linux.
See:
  http://xvidcap.sourceforge.net/

Good luck!

-bill!



From nbs at sonic.net  Fri Mar 31 12:28:23 2006
From: nbs at sonic.net (Bill Kendrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:23 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com>
Message-ID: <20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net>

On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 11:51:17AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> Ah.  See:
> "Desktop Video-Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps
> 
> Please let me know of any I've missed.   ;->

Your link for xvidcap (http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/VideoC/xscript.html)
seems defunt. See my prev email for an update. :)

-bill!



From rick at linuxmafia.com  Fri Mar 31 13:10:19 2006
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:10:19 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool
In-Reply-To: <20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net>
References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com>
	<20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net>
Message-ID: <20060331211019.GK5311@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):

> Your link for xvidcap (http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/VideoC/xscript.html)
> seems defunt. See my prev email for an update. :)

The whole page was sort of a trainwreck, having been hastily stuck
together from multiple e-mails.  I've fixed it, now.

-- 
Cheers,                   I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, 
Rick Moen                 which, when you looked at it in the right way, did 
rick at linuxmafia.com       not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson



From Polite.Vincent at epamail.epa.gov  Thu Mar 30 09:22:45 2006
From: Polite.Vincent at epamail.epa.gov (Polite.Vincent at epamail.epa.gov)
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:22:45 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fw: I Love My Job: a poem by Dr. Seuss
Message-ID: <OF389B3506.2E9B7F87-ON88257141.005F6CCF-88257141.005F7745@epamail.epa.gov>


Ever have days like this.

----------------------------------------
Vince Polite - Web Support
Vistronix Contractor to US EPA, R9
polite.vincent at epa.gov | 415-972-3668
> > > Region 9 Web Updates < < <
http://r9tc.r09.epa.gov/webtracker/
----------------------------------------
----- Forwarded by Vincent Polite/R9/USEPA/US on 03/30/2006 09:22 AM
-----
                                                                        
             Lisa                                                       
             Fasano/R9/USEPA/                                           
             US                                                      To 
                                      Wendy Chavez/R9/USEPA/US at EPA,     
             03/30/2006 09:01         Laura Gentile/R9/USEPA/US at EPA,    
             AM                       Mark Merchant/R9/USEPA/US at EPA,    
                                      Sunny Nelson/R9/USEPA/US at EPA,     
                                      Brent Maier/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Jim  
                                      Vreeland/R9/USEPA/US at EPA,         
                                      Francisco                         
                                      Arcaute/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Dean     
                                      Higuchi/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Patti    
                                      Nelson/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Vincent   
                                      Polite/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Alita     
                                      Green/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Ivry       
                                      Johnson/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Jennifer 
                                      Chicconi/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Gina    
                                      Edwards/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Bonnie   
                                      Barkett/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Matt     
                                      Salazar/R9/USEPA/US at EPA, Tom      
                                      Kelly/DC/USEPA/US at EPA, Abigail    
                                      Gaudario/R9/USEPA/US at EPA          
                                                                     cc 
                                                                        
                                                                Subject 
                                      I Love My Job: a poem by Dr.      
                                      Seuss                             
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        
                                                                        





                                                                         
 (Embedded image moved to file: pic18686.jpg)                            
                                                                         
                                                                         
              (Embedded image moved to file: pic04755.gif)               
                                                                         



-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: pic18686.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 92451 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/840552a2/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: pic04755.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 1325 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/sf-lug/attachments/20060330/840552a2/attachment.gif>