From jim@well.com Mon Dec 26 11:27:30 2005 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:40903) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Eqy03-0006MR-9A for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:27:29 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jBQJRCUC009086 for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:27:13 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:29:25 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-15-551859033 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Splunk Camp SysAdmin January 14 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 19:27:30 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3056 Lines: 111 --Apple-Mail-15-551859033 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed > > Splunk, creators of the first IT data search software for > troubleshooting, is sponsoring Camp SysAdmin on January 14th in San > Francisco. As our product runs on Linux, we wanted to invite the > members of the SF-LUG to attend. Attendance is free, but you must > register in advance. > > Thank you! > Diane Hagglund > diane@splunk.com > > BayLISA, USENIX, TechTarget,SysAdmin Magazine and Splunk are hosting > Camp SysAdmin on January 14th and you=92re invited to attend. Camp = Sys > Admin is a full day devoted to talking about troubleshooting problems > with enterprise applications (especially LAMP and J2EE), VoIP, email > and on-demand. The format of the day will be very interactive, with > sessions that will be moderated by some of the best in the business, > including: > - Ethan Galstad, father of Nagios > - Eric Allman, Chief Science Officer, Sendmail > - Richard Whitehead, Chief Technical Officer, Clarus Systems > - Brian Aker, Director of Architecture, MySQL > > We=92ll end the day with a wine party so we can talk more about = whatever > was most interesting during the day. As a sponsor of this event, > Splunk will be there talking about splunking with attendees. > > Attendance is free, although space is limited. You can reserve your > spot by registering at: http://www.splunk.com/index.php/camp --Apple-Mail-15-551859033 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Times New Roman> > Splunk, creators of the first IT data search software for > troubleshooting, is sponsoring Camp SysAdmin on January 14th in San > Francisco. As our product runs on Linux, we wanted to invite the > members of the SF-LUG to attend. Attendance is free, but you must > register in advance. > > Thank you! > Diane Hagglund > diane@splunk.com > > BayLISA, USENIX, TechTarget,SysAdmin Magazine and Splunk are hosting > Camp SysAdmin on January 14th and you=92re invited to attend. Camp Sys > Admin is a full day devoted to talking about troubleshooting problems > with enterprise applications (especially LAMP and J2EE), VoIP, email > and on-demand. The format of the day will be very interactive, with > sessions that will be moderated by some of the best in the business, > including: > - Ethan Galstad, father of Nagios > - Eric Allman, Chief Science Officer, Sendmail > - Richard Whitehead, Chief Technical Officer, Clarus Systems > - Brian Aker, Director of Architecture, MySQL > > We=92ll end the day with a wine party so we can talk more about whatever > was most interesting during the day. As a sponsor of this event, > Splunk will be there talking about splunking with attendees. > > Attendance is free, although space is limited. You can reserve your > spot by registering at: http://www.splunk.com/index.php/camp = --Apple-Mail-15-551859033-- From jim@well.com Mon Dec 26 12:38:08 2005 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:45446) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Eqz6G-0006fH-BU for ; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:38:08 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jBQKbfgw007748; Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:37:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:39:54 -0800 To: jim stockford X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1218/Mon Dec 26 05:46:59 2005 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-16-556087801 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Splunk Camp SysAdmin January 14 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:38:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4517 Lines: 172 --Apple-Mail-16-556087801 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed sorry i didn't figure this out when i sent the other message: It's in San Francisco on the corner of Mission and 3rd Streets! January 14, 2006 Diablo Grande Wine Gallery 669 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94105 <------ www.diablogrande.com/winegallery On Dec 26, 2005, at 11:29 AM, jim stockford wrote: > > > > > Splunk, creators of the first IT data search software for > > troubleshooting, is sponsoring Camp SysAdmin on January 14th in San > > Francisco. As our product runs on Linux, we wanted to invite the > > members of the SF-LUG to attend. Attendance is free, but you must > > register in advance. > > > > Thank you! > > Diane Hagglund > > diane@splunk.com > > > > BayLISA, USENIX, TechTarget,SysAdmin Magazine and Splunk are hosting > > Camp SysAdmin on January 14th and you=92re invited to attend. Camp = Sys > > Admin is a full day devoted to talking about troubleshooting = problems > > with enterprise applications (especially LAMP and J2EE), VoIP, email > > and on-demand. The format of the day will be very interactive, with > > sessions that will be moderated by some of the best in the business, > > including: > > - Ethan Galstad, father of Nagios > > - Eric Allman, Chief Science Officer, Sendmail > > - Richard Whitehead, Chief Technical Officer, Clarus Systems > > - Brian Aker, Director of Architecture, MySQL > > > > We=92ll end the day with a wine party so we can talk more about=20 > whatever > > was most interesting during the day. As a sponsor of this event, > > Splunk will be there talking about splunking with attendees. > > > > Attendance is free, although space is limited. You can reserve your > > spot by registering at: http://www.splunk.com/index.php/camp > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-16-556087801 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 sorry i didn't figure this out when i sent=20 the other message:=20 It's in San Francisco on the corner of=20 Mission and 3rd Streets!=20 3333,3333,3333 January 14, = 2006 3333,3333,3333 Diablo Grande Wine Gallery 3333,3333,3333 669 Mission Street, San Francisco, CA 94105 <<------ = = 0000,6666,CCCCwww.diabl= ogrande.com/winegallery3333,3333,3333= =20 On Dec 26, 2005, at 11:29 AM, jim stockford wrote: Times New Roman> > Splunk, creators of the first IT data search software for > troubleshooting, is sponsoring Camp SysAdmin on January 14th in San > Francisco. As our product runs on Linux, we wanted to invite the > members of the SF-LUG to attend. Attendance is free, but you must > register in advance. > > Thank you! > Diane Hagglund > diane@splunk.com > > BayLISA, USENIX, TechTarget,SysAdmin Magazine and Splunk are hosting > Camp SysAdmin on January 14th and you=92re invited to attend. Camp Sys > Admin is a full day devoted to talking about troubleshooting problems > with enterprise applications (especially LAMP and J2EE), VoIP, email > and on-demand. The format of the day will be very interactive, with > sessions that will be moderated by some of the best in the business, > including: > - Ethan Galstad, father of Nagios > - Eric Allman, Chief Science Officer, Sendmail > - Richard Whitehead, Chief Technical Officer, Clarus Systems > - Brian Aker, Director of Architecture, MySQL > > We=92ll end the day with a wine party so we can talk more about whatever > was most interesting during the day. As a sponsor of this event, > Splunk will be there talking about splunking with attendees. > > Attendance is free, although space is limited. You can reserve your > spot by registering at: http://www.splunk.com/index.php/camp _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-16-556087801-- From jim@well.com Sat Dec 31 15:39:08 2005 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:55905) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EsqJJ-0000ns-PL for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 15:39:08 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id jBVHuuNc012642 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:56:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <24BD5976-7A27-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 09:59:09 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-978443724 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Who's Peter Quinn and what bad thing did he do? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 23:39:09 -0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 2602 Lines: 90 --Apple-Mail-6-978443724 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: jim stockford > Date: December 31, 2005 9:51:24 AM PST > To: SF-LUG > Subject: Who's Peter Quinn and what bad thing did he do? > > http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1906388,00.asp > > ...Welcome to the story of Peter Quinn, the soon-to-be former CIO of > Massachusetts. > mistake? He stood up for ODF (OpenDocument Format), an open standard > for office documents, and decided that Massachusetts would adopt ODF > for use by the Commonwealth's executive agencies. > ... > The first time someone in authority in a state government decides to > support a format that Microsoft doesn't approve, he's suddenly hounded > not only within the government but in the press as well. > ... > > (this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list > is working on the linuxmafia.com host.) --Apple-Mail-6-978443724 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: jim stockford < 0000,0000,0000Date: December 31, 2005 9:51:24 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: SF-LUG < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Who's Peter Quinn and what bad thing did he do? http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1906388,00.asp Verdana3332,3332,3332 ...Welcome to the story of Peter Quinn, the soon-to-be 0000,3332,9998former CIO of Massachusetts.3332,3332,3332 mistake? He stood up for ODF (OpenDocument Format), an open standard for office documents, and decided that 0000,3332,9998Massachusetts would adopt ODF3332,3332,3332 for use by the Commonwealth's executive agencies. ... Verdana3332,3332,3332The first time someone in authority in a state government decides to support a format that Microsoft doesn't approve, he's suddenly hounded not only within the government but in the press as well. ... (this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list is working on the linuxmafia.com host.) --Apple-Mail-6-978443724-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Sat Dec 31 18:35:04 2005 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Est3n-0001pQ-MR by authid for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:35:03 -0800 Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:35:03 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Who's Peter Quinn and what bad thing did he do? Message-ID: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <24BD5976-7A27-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <24BD5976-7A27-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 02:35:05 -0000 Status: RO Content-Length: 4420 Lines: 85 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): >(this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list >is working on the linuxmafia.com host.) You might have noticed that the machine had ten hours of downtime (5 am to 3 pm), courtesy of the longest storm-induced power outage my household has seen in about five years. More below. First, just a few words about the current situation, since we-all simply popped up on linuxmafia.com like mushrooms in the spring. Jim and a friend are still busy working on restoring the _real_ SF-LUG mailing list and Web site, and I believe are considering hosting options. Meanwhile, I offered to give the mailing list a temporary home on my Mailman-equipped Linux server, linuxmafia.com. (Yr. welcome. Glad to help.) linuxmafia.com (aka "uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com", for you Neal Stephenson fans) is the antique 1998-era VA Research model 500 2U server[1] in my living room in suburban West Menlo Park just north of Stanford U., connected through home aDSL service provided by Raw Bandwidth Communications (which company I recommend strongly). I am _not_ the listadmin of this temporary mailing list incarnation; Jim is. I'm just the current hardware's bit janitor (sysadmin) and pink-slip owner. ;-> As SF-LUG has already learned somewhat painfully, keeping a group's Internet presence on a machine in someone's residence has its disadvantages. Even for the resident, it's a tradeoff: On the plus side: Bandwidth uptime is exceptional, thanks to Mike Durkin at Raw Bandwidth, who is fanatical about such things. Also, I get complete control of all aspects of my machine including physical custody. And it's pretty cheap for what I get, considering all the other needs simultaneously served by the incoming pipe and 5 routable IPs. (If you want business details, consult http://www.rawbandwidth.com/ and talk to Mike. Not me, please. I'm just a customer.) On the minus side: Effective throughput is merely adequate compared to what's available at your average colo -- enough that I've survived a couple of slashdottings, but with some strain. (I'm spoiled, having gotten used to the T-1 in my old building in S.F.) Also, power outages and other physical-plant issues are _my_ problem. My long-term solution to the power-outage problem is mostly to punt: I've never bothered putting uncle-enzo on a UPS. The software's completely bulletproof and the hardware's disposable. Power outages knock it offline for maybe half an hour a couple of times a year: When the power comes back, all service reliably come back. If I get unlucky and a surge burns out a PSU or hard drive, I can bring the machine back in about an hour on substitute hardware that's ready for that purpose.[3] Back in 2001, you may recall that our {cough} friends at Enron and kin visited upon us an entire summer of rolling blackouts. _That_ created some challenges for uncle-enzo, because all of the journaling filesystems were still pretty beta, and I was at the time still 100% ext2. Because of the power crisis, I did an urgent rebuild onto SGI's XFS filesystem in May 2001[2], thereby fixing the immediate problem. The next full site rebuild after that, in 2003, I switched to ext3 -- except still using ext2 for /usr (normally mounted read-only) and for /tmp and /var/log, for performance reasons. Anyhow, SF-LUG is welcome to use my machine's facilities as long as it wants, but I anticipate that we'll want to move it to SF-LUG's _own_ machine in good time. I just wanted to reassure you that 10 hours of downtime is something of an outlying case, but is within expectation for storm season and nothing to get alarmed about. Because uncle-enzo is _my_ principal home on the Internet, I am motivated (and able) to bring it back up within about a day somewhere, no matter what happens -- root compromise, hard drive failures, whatever. [1] Get a load of these 31337 specs: single-proc PIII/500, 256kB PC100 SDRAM, 2 x 9GB SCSI-2 HDs. Go, me! [2] See: "XFS Conversion" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Filesystems/ . [3] In fact, I really should swap in a slightly better machine and two less ridiculously small and old hard drives, that is waiting. I just haven't had time to do the swaparound. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From jim@well.com Sun Jan 01 10:13:33 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42284) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Et7hx-0007Dl-KJ for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 10:13:32 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k01IDRDw023747 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 10:13:27 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <9ED1ACD0-7AF2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 10:15:42 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] no sf-lug meeting today, but... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:13:33 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 413 Lines: 16 next sf-lug meeting is Monday, January 16, from 6:00 PM till 8:00 PM (or so). Topics will include future directions of sf-lug. Ideas include * incorporating as non-profit * revisiting our technobase (stick with Tom's machines and Jim's alternates, go with colo, use webhosting...) * web site redesign * presenting sf-lug as a resource to the greater city community, for training, connections to resources.... From alamozzz@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 13:14:14 2006 Received: from web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.118]:24006) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtAW1-0008Az-UW for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:14:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 59622 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Jan 2006 21:13:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=uvq/e0Gzt/PolcSftSFH06xpzg4C6RqVr4MOuB1cRGWIIJVwuL7MRu8RDN21raLO6hMIgqG6k2I1v+IXTUkOINfAxDqvHAk476fKwg9VGRkfJvw0LT7fI0+pz+civXXMEKH6niD/hQ03bfUyWSkgfywg6h4k/odJIk5QxPnrjPc= ; Message-ID: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.104.41] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 13:13:14 PST Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:13:14 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.118 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1954336922-1136149994=:59400" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:14:14 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11594 Lines: 129 --0-1954336922-1136149994=:59400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Happy New Year! I'm very optimistic about 2006; I think this will be a banner year for open-source software (with most of the good stuff happening later in the year.) Thanks, Rick, for explaining uncle-enzo and the network setup and the reference to Raw Bandwidth Communications. Have you ever monitored RAM usage on uncle-enzo? RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100 (you can also usually use PC-133 safely in a PC-100 system.) UPSes have also come way down in price. I would ask what kernel uncle-enzo is running, but that is probably an improper question due to security concerns. Cheers, Adrien Rick Moen wrote: Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): >(this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list >is working on the linuxmafia.com host.) You might have noticed that the machine had ten hours of downtime (5 am to 3 pm), courtesy of the longest storm-induced power outage my household has seen in about five years. More below. First, just a few words about the current situation, since we-all simply popped up on linuxmafia.com like mushrooms in the spring. Jim and a friend are still busy working on restoring the _real_ SF-LUG mailing list and Web site, and I believe are considering hosting options. Meanwhile, I offered to give the mailing list a temporary home on my Mailman-equipped Linux server, linuxmafia.com. (Yr. welcome. Glad to help.) linuxmafia.com (aka "uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com", for you Neal Stephenson fans) is the antique 1998-era VA Research model 500 2U server[1] in my living room in suburban West Menlo Park just north of Stanford U., connected through home aDSL service provided by Raw Bandwidth Communications (which company I recommend strongly). I am _not_ the listadmin of this temporary mailing list incarnation; Jim is. I'm just the current hardware's bit janitor (sysadmin) and pink-slip owner. ;-> As SF-LUG has already learned somewhat painfully, keeping a group's Internet presence on a machine in someone's residence has its disadvantages. Even for the resident, it's a tradeoff: On the plus side: Bandwidth uptime is exceptional, thanks to Mike Durkin at Raw Bandwidth, who is fanatical about such things. Also, I get complete control of all aspects of my machine including physical custody. And it's pretty cheap for what I get, considering all the other needs simultaneously served by the incoming pipe and 5 routable IPs. (If you want business details, consult http://www.rawbandwidth.com/ and talk to Mike. Not me, please. I'm just a customer.) On the minus side: Effective throughput is merely adequate compared to what's available at your average colo -- enough that I've survived a couple of slashdottings, but with some strain. (I'm spoiled, having gotten used to the T-1 in my old building in S.F.) Also, power outages and other physical-plant issues are _my_ problem. My long-term solution to the power-outage problem is mostly to punt: I've never bothered putting uncle-enzo on a UPS. The software's completely bulletproof and the hardware's disposable. Power outages knock it offline for maybe half an hour a couple of times a year: When the power comes back, all service reliably come back. If I get unlucky and a surge burns out a PSU or hard drive, I can bring the machine back in about an hour on substitute hardware that's ready for that purpose.[3] Back in 2001, you may recall that our {cough} friends at Enron and kin visited upon us an entire summer of rolling blackouts. _That_ created some challenges for uncle-enzo, because all of the journaling filesystems were still pretty beta, and I was at the time still 100% ext2. Because of the power crisis, I did an urgent rebuild onto SGI's XFS filesystem in May 2001[2], thereby fixing the immediate problem. The next full site rebuild after that, in 2003, I switched to ext3 -- except still using ext2 for /usr (normally mounted read-only) and for /tmp and /var/log, for performance reasons. Anyhow, SF-LUG is welcome to use my machine's facilities as long as it wants, but I anticipate that we'll want to move it to SF-LUG's _own_ machine in good time. I just wanted to reassure you that 10 hours of downtime is something of an outlying case, but is within expectation for storm season and nothing to get alarmed about. Because uncle-enzo is _my_ principal home on the Internet, I am motivated (and able) to bring it back up within about a day somewhere, no matter what happens -- root compromise, hard drive failures, whatever. [1] Get a load of these 31337 specs: single-proc PIII/500, 256kB PC100 SDRAM, 2 x 9GB SCSI-2 HDs. Go, me! [2] See: "XFS Conversion" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Filesystems/ . [3] In fact, I really should swap in a slightly better machine and two less ridiculously small and old hard drives, that is waiting. I just haven't had time to do the swaparound. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1954336922-1136149994=:59400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Happy New Year!

I'm very optimistic about 2006; I think this will be a banner year for open-source software (with most of the good stuff happening later in the year.)

Thanks, Rick, for explaining uncle-enzo and the network setup and the reference to Raw Bandwidth Communications.

Have you ever monitored RAM usage on uncle-enzo? RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100 (you can also usually use PC-133 safely in a PC-100 system.) UPSes have also come way down in price.

I would ask what kernel uncle-enzo is running, but that is probably an improper question due to security concerns.

Cheers,

Adrien


Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com):

>(this message also tests that the sf-lug mailing list
>is working on the linuxmafia.com host.)

You might have noticed that the machine had ten hours of downtime
(5 am to 3 pm), courtesy of the longest storm-induced power outage my
household has seen in about five years. More below.

First, just a few words about the current situation, since we-all simply
popped up on linuxmafia.com like mushrooms in the spring. Jim and a
friend are still busy working on restoring the _real_ SF-LUG mailing
list and Web site, and I believe are considering hosting options.
Meanwhile, I offered to give the mailing list a temporary home on my
Mailman-equipped Linux server, linuxmafia.com. (Yr. welcome. Glad to
help.)

linuxmafia.com (aka "uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com", for you Neal Stephenson
fans) is the antique 1998-era VA Research model 500 2U server[1] in my
living room in suburban West Menlo Park just north of Stanford U.,
connected through home aDSL service provided by Raw Bandwidth
Communications (which company I recommend strongly). I am _not_ the
listadmin of this temporary mailing list incarnation; Jim is. I'm just
the current hardware's bit janitor (sysadmin) and pink-slip owner. ;->

As SF-LUG has already learned somewhat painfully, keeping a group's
Internet presence on a machine in someone's residence has its
disadvantages. Even for the resident, it's a tradeoff:

On the plus side: Bandwidth uptime is exceptional, thanks to Mike
Durkin at Raw Bandwidth, who is fanatical about such things. Also,
I get complete control of all aspects of my machine including physical
custody. And it's pretty cheap for what I get, considering all the
other needs simultaneously served by the incoming pipe and 5 routable
IPs. (If you want business details, consult http://www.rawbandwidth.com/
and talk to Mike. Not me, please. I'm just a customer.)

On the minus side: Effective throughput is merely adequate compared to
what's available at your average colo -- enough that I've survived a
couple of slashdottings, but with some strain. (I'm spoiled, having
gotten used to the T-1 in my old building in S.F.) Also, power outages
and other physical-plant issues are _my_ problem.

My long-term solution to the power-outage problem is mostly to punt:
I've never bothered putting uncle-enzo on a UPS. The software's
completely bulletproof and the hardware's disposable. Power outages
knock it offline for maybe half an hour a couple of times a year: When
the power comes back, all service reliably come back. If I get unlucky
and a surge burns out a PSU or hard drive, I can bring the machine back
in about an hour on substitute hardware that's ready for that
purpose.[3]

Back in 2001, you may recall that our {cough} friends at Enron and kin
visited upon us an entire summer of rolling blackouts. _That_ created
some challenges for uncle-enzo, because all of the journaling
filesystems were still pretty beta, and I was at the time still 100%
ext2. Because of the power crisis, I did an urgent rebuild onto SGI's
XFS filesystem in May 2001[2], thereby fixing the immediate problem.
The next full site rebuild after that, in 2003, I switched to ext3 --
except still using ext2 for /usr (normally mounted read-only) and for
/tmp and /var/log, for performance reasons.

Anyhow, SF-LUG is welcome to use my machine's facilities as long as it
wants, but I anticipate that we'll want to move it to SF-LUG's _own_
machine in good time. I just wanted to reassure you that 10 hours of
downtime is something of an outlying case, but is within expectation for
storm season and nothing to get alarmed about. Because uncle-enzo is
_my_ principal home on the Internet, I am motivated (and able) to bring
it back up within about a day somewhere, no matter what happens -- root
compromise, hard drive failures, whatever.

[1] Get a load of these 31337 specs: single-proc PIII/500, 256kB PC100
SDRAM, 2 x 9GB SCSI-2 HDs. Go, me!

[2] See: "XFS Conversion" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Filesystems/ .

[3] In fact, I really should swap in a slightly better machine and two
less ridiculously small and old hard drives, that is waiting. I just
haven't had time to do the swaparound.

--
Cheers,
Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor."
rick@linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1954336922-1136149994=:59400-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Jan 01 16:27:16 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtDXf-0000uJ-G0 by authid for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:27:15 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 16:27:14 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 00:27:16 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11854 Lines: 244 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Happy New Year! Thank ghod, we're a bit over half-way through the Noughties. I won't miss 'em. > Have you ever monitored RAM usage on uncle-enzo? RAM is really > inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100 (you can also usually > use PC-133 safely in a PC-100 system.) You know, I could, but why? Like most Linux Internet hosts in most situations, uncle-enzo is I/O-bound, courtesy of living at the slow end of an aDSL line. Given its role in life, it could actually be a much less powerful (and quieter, and smaller, and less electricity-gulping) machine, and still perform just as well. vmstat and other tools show it doesn't eat into virtual memory much, and in general runs fairly healthily with its mere 256MB. About the only real benefit of (say) doubling that RAM would be stretch the life of its twin 9GB SCSI-2 drives, by giving more resources to the system disk cache. But, really: Extending the life of 9GB SCSI-2 drives? In 2006? You see, I really did think that one over. I'm not sure it even merits spending tbe price of several Quiznos Classic Italian sandwitches at SA Technology, let alone having to spin down the machine, get all the junk off the 2U case, crack it open, blow all the dust out, and cram in more RAM. For that matter, I don't even know offhand how many free RAM slots the Intel Nightshade (N440BX) motherboard has, or what it maxes out at. Hmm, searching reveals: four DIMM slots, total max 1GB. Jury says: Not even worth cracking the case to find out whether the number of open slots is two or zero. Remember, this is junk hardware, like any computer _that_ old (8 yrs.). > UPSes have also come way down in price. And you then get to pay pretty much the same amount again every few years to get battery replacements. And the periodic amount you have to pay is proportional to the capacity. (There's also the possibility of automatic orderly shutdown, discussed below, with even very low-capacity UPSes.) Let's think about that: For there to be much point, I'd need to put the system box, the aDSL modem, and at least the house's outer ethernet hub on the UPS. Let's say for the sake of discussion that it's 220W, on average. An APC Smart-UPS XL 750VA provides... hmm, the units of their capacity figures don't makes sense to me. Shouldn't it be in something like kilowatt-hours? (Turns out this is complex, and is explained at http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/ext/ups/funcCapacity-c.html .) Costs $420, weighs 53 pounds. 220 watts over 110 VAC implies a 2 amp current draw. Anyhow, they have a chart that claims about 1 1/4 hours of battery runtime at that current draw -- for $420 every few years. And for what? Currently, the power trips off: uncle-enzo is off the air. Power comes back: uncle-enzo is back with everything undamaged and just fine. This is no fluke: The SQL database uses ACID-compliant tables, the non-static filesystems are journaled, all services restart automatically. Even vim keeps temporary files so you can reopen the unsaved file you had open where power dropped off, without lossage. Most outages are during winter storms at 4 AM while I'm asleep, anyway. I wake up, and the only way I can even tell there's _been_ downtime is that my GNU Screen sessions aren't running, any more. So, basically, $420 every few years would buy my uninterrupted operation through two or three power failures per year that are shorter than 1.25 hours. Presumbly, $100 every few years might buy me uniterrupted operation through 15 minute or shorter power outages. But I really don't care that much. Deirdre has an unused UPS that would probably run uncle-enzo (and the other stuff) for ten minutes. The other thing alluded to above is that UPSes don't _have_ to simply run silently along on battery power until suddenly they run out of juice and everything falls over: With a suitable RS-232C serial or USB cable, your UPS can send out status signals to an attached machine that is running UPS-minitoring daemon software. That software then will wake up and do whatever it's configured for, when there is X estimated minutes of battery runtime remaining: page the administrator, do an orderly shutdown of affected machines, or whatever. This can be important if, say, you have application servers that depend on database servers, etc., that really need to be brought down and back up in a specific order. I don't, and as far as I can tell my needs are limited to: please bring the machine back up when the power comes back. And I already have that, with no UPS. APCC (and possibly others) makes the monitoring thing gratuitously difficult by requiring bizarrely non-standard cables for the interconnects involved, which are -- of course -- absurdly expensive and exotic. (This may have changed. It was the case some years ago.) Some smarter guy than I might imagine something useful that can be done within a 10 (or 75) minute battery runtime, using such a mechanism. Personally, I don't really see any, and so don't see any significant advantage. > I would ask what kernel uncle-enzo is running, but that is probably an > improper question due to security concerns. No, I have no problem disclosing that. It's a Debian-packaged binary kernel (because I'm lazy, and because many distro-provided precompiled modular kernels are good enough): ~ $ uname -r 2.4.27-2-686 ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ | | | | |-- CPU-optimisation (best you can do for a PIII) and architecture, | | | | -- Version of the distro's package of this kernel variant. | | |-- Release version for this kernel. | |-- Minor series number, for this kernel release. Even numbers are | | stable releases, through 2.4. 2.6 introduced different versioning. | |-- Major series number, for this kernel release. People new to Debian and related distros (MEPIS, Kanotix, Ubuntu, etc.) sometimes just assume that they'll automatically get a suitable kernel every time they update packages using apt-get -- and never stop to consider what kernel _package_ they're using. Worse, prior to Debian 3.0 "sarge" (current "stable" branch), if you took no explicit action to manually pick an explicit kernel package, you ended up by default with the _installer's_ kernel and no actual kernel _package_ at all. The result was that you persisted in running an extremely generic kernel, which then never received any updates because the package system didn't even know about it. It somehow never occurred to the Debian package maintainers that many people would _not_ take an explicit step to pick a kernel package. This oversight was fixed in the (now-current) "sarge"-branch's default installer. Anyhow, if you browse through available precompiled kernel packages for your CPU family (x86, PPC, SPARC...), you find various 2.4.x, 2.6.x, and even 2.2.x release versions. You also find, for each release version present, packages with different compiler optimisations (386, 586, 686, k6, k7). For each of those, you find packages compiled either with or without SMP support. The specific Debian kernel package I have installed is called: Pacakge: kernel-image-2.4-686 Description: Linux kernel image for version 2.4 on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/P4 This package will always depend on the latest 2.4 kernel image available for Pentium Pro/Celeron/Pentium II/Pentium III/Pentium 4. Tag: admin::boot, admin::kernel, role::aux:metapackage As indicated, this is a "metapackage" (or virtual package), sort of like a movable symlink for packaging: Its presence is a reminder memo to the packaging system that it should fetch any newer _actual_ physical package with any name of the form "kernel-image-2.4.N-686, where N is a number higher than the current value. (Kernel metapackages aka virtual packages were introduced sometime in the "sarge" testing cycle. If you have a Debian-ish system, you might check to see if it maybe got accidentially stuck at 2.4.N for low values of N, because that's the physical-package version you picked once upon a time, and you never revisited the matter or switched to a metapackage.) And, of course, N is currently 27: I have package "kernel-image-2.4.27-686", which package is at release #2, as shown earlier. This is a uniprocessor (non-SMP) kernel, compiled with PPro (686) optimisation. Now, you might be thinking, "Wait! isn't the 2.4 kernel series up to 2.4.31?" Yes, it is. Debian, like most distros, occasionally chooses to pick a kernel release that looks really good for the medium term and standardise on it for a while. As 2.4.28, -29, -30, and -31 came out, the Debian kernel maintainers consider whether each will make a better substitute interim standard, and whether the new version's improvements can be easily backported to 2.4.27. So far, they have preferred to backport. Thus, even though 2.4.x releases after 2.4.27 have provided security fixes, the fact that I'm still on a 2.4.27 kernel doesn't mean I've missed those fixes. I mention that matter because it's a frequent area of confusion among people new to kernel issues: You can't just look at package numbers and say "Oh no! That's a vulnerable version." Backports make the matter not quite that simple. If I actually had some compelling reason to run a 2.4.31 kernel, the fact that Debian doesn't (yet) provide one precompiled isn't much of an obstacle, because Debian provides the make-kpkg (make kernel package) tool, allowing you to easily compile and build Debianised binary kernel packages from the source tarballs of your choosing. I could do that -- but I'm lazy, and I also have a reasonable amount of faith in the package maintainers' oversight. And, by the way, there wouldn't be a whole lot of point in being secretive about what Linux kernel I'm running: The nmap and p0f remote-scanning tools, among others, can make a somewhat reasonable guess about what OS and kernel reversion you're running, through testing TCP packet signatures and such things. linuxmafia:~# nmap -sT -sV -sU -O linuxmafia.com Starting nmap 3.93 (http://www.insecure.org/nmap/ ) at 2006-01-01 15:01 PST Interesting ports on linuxmafia.com (198.144.195.186): (The 3135 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed) PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION 21/tcp open ftp vsFTPd 2.0.3 22/tcp open ssh OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0) 23/tcp open ssh OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0) 25/tcp open smtp Exim smtpd 4.54 53/tcp open domain 53/udp open domain? 80/tcp open http Apache httpd 1.3.33 ((Debian GNU/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.24 OpenSSL/0.9.8 DAV/1.0.3) 119/tcp open nntp Leafnode nntpd 2.0b8_ma9 123/udp open ntp? 443/tcp open http Apache httpd 1.3.33 ((Debian GNU/Linux) mod_ssl/2.8.24 OpenSSL/0.9.8 DAV/1.0.3) 873/tcp open rsync (protocol version 29) 8080/tcp open ssh OpenSSH 4.2p1 Debian-5 (protocol 2.0) 32768/udp open|filtered omadDevice type: generalpurpose Running: Linux 2.4.X|2.5.X OS details: Linux 2.4.0 - 2.5.20 Uptime 1.017 days (since Sat Dec 31 14:37:58 2005) Service Info: OS: Unix Nmap finished: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 55.254 seconds linuxmafia:~# p0f p0f - passive os fingerprinting utility, version 2.0.5 (C) M. Zalewski , W. Stearns p0f: listening (SYN) on 'eth1', 231 sigs (13 generic), rule: 'all'. 198.144.195.186:43966 - Linux 2.4/2.6 <= 2.6.7 (up: 24 hrs) [snip] _Do_ try that at home, kids: Studying your own machines' external profile via remote-probing tools is an _extremely_ good idea. However, think long and hard before security-scanning other folks' networks, since many people may get a little trigger-happy about that. From alamozzz@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 18:12:16 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:40726) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtFAq-0001X6-Au for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:12:15 -0800 Received: (qmail 85255 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 02:11:32 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CFkxunuvHoiJ3gSC+yzEXYdYgMvf7h5W0Yy+OOvFp++p81EDula3QmagqBu/4V40u49fum+uwhdH/IHODxxksOuv8JDmwiZ0rgrWi0Sk9xPakNtCNlzywfpVS9/GiWoM0YgcDkSuBEs44WVLBDOrJyT+fLs1XGhYJ8ylkV6+I5s= ; Message-ID: <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.104.41] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:11:32 PST Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:11:32 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1033777824-1136167892=:84929" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 02:12:16 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2204 Lines: 40 --0-1033777824-1136167892=:84929 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote: >Jury says: Not even worth cracking the case to find out whether the number of open slots is two or zero. Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do. >Remember, this is junk hardware, like any computer _that_ old (8 yrs.). I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine is a very capable processor. Don't let uncle-enzo die! He has been a good uncle, now you should support and comfort him in his old age. What do the other conspire list members think? Shouldn't uncle-enzo be allowed to continue doing what he has done so well for so long? Long live uncle-enzo! --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1033777824-1136167892=:84929 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 
Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>Jury says: Not even worth cracking the case to find out whether the number of open slots is two or zero.
Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.

>Remember, this is junk hardware, like any computer _that_ old (8 yrs.).

I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. 
The 400BX chipset is very stable, a great choice for a server.
The Pentium III Coppermine is a very capable processor.

Don't let uncle-enzo die! He has been a good uncle, now you
should support and comfort him in his old age. What do the
other conspire list members think? Shouldn't uncle-enzo be 
allowed to continue doing what he has done so well for so
long?

Long live uncle-enzo!

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1033777824-1136167892=:84929-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Jan 01 18:51:17 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtFn2-0001dW-IG by authid for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:51:16 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 18:51:15 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 02:51:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1798 Lines: 44 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do. True. I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans. The whine is loud and annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right next to it in the living room. Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty frequently remove it from the front-panel grills. > I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is > very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine > is a very capable processor. For its day: very true. If only the damned thing were quieter and more power-thrifty. Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single PIII/833 (can support dual). Reg had disconnected the leads to one of _that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box. Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230 Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and small. Like, imagine: I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr. old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50. That would be, what? Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB IDE hard drive. Built-in UPS (the battery). Quiet as a dormouse. Sips only tiny amounts of power. And, you know? There would be no performance difference, because of the aDSL bottleneck. > Don't let uncle-enzo die! I might have him bronzed. ;-> From alamozzz@yahoo.com Sun Jan 01 20:25:02 2006 Received: from web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.119]:30516) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtHEf-0002Co-KQ for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:24:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 46913 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 04:23:44 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=w6Mp2dD8qhu72GkFBZL1YEuUeEiDCRm43lH1AtsMuhl3FY7MDfMNzXcFsy3PO4gPK3ZuSCAf4jhW32h9QYN4znkp7oeRTRw5BN1tSqZaK1RFpa26Oaa0bhardrnNVUEi4oGYRf63P6asjNb4Pg7OLBWi8n2KCFL6yPPJDVqfbWs= ; Message-ID: <20060102042344.46911.qmail@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.104.41] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:23:44 PST Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:23:44 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.119 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-42585032-1136175824=:46901" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:25:03 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5421 Lines: 73 --0-42585032-1136175824=:46901 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was actually going to suggest a laptop, but you would still want to UPS the DSL modem, etc. The Lancewood system sounds like a capable replacement. But the laptop would consume less power, take up less real estate and emit way less noise. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do. True. I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans. The whine is loud and annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right next to it in the living room. Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty frequently remove it from the front-panel grills. > I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is > very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine > is a very capable processor. For its day: very true. If only the damned thing were quieter and more power-thrifty. Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single PIII/833 (can support dual). Reg had disconnected the leads to one of _that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box. Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230 Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and small. Like, imagine: I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr. old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50. That would be, what? Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB IDE hard drive. Built-in UPS (the battery). Quiet as a dormouse. Sips only tiny amounts of power. And, you know? There would be no performance difference, because of the aDSL bottleneck. > Don't let uncle-enzo die! I might have him bronzed. ;-> _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-42585032-1136175824=:46901 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I was actually going to suggest a laptop, but you would still want to UPS the DSL modem, etc. The Lancewood system sounds like a capable replacement. But the laptop would consume less power, take up less real estate and emit way less noise.


Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.

True. I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills
over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans. The whine is loud and
annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
next to it in the living room.

Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.

> I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is
> very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine
> is a very capable processor.

For its day: very true. If only the damned thing were quieter and more
power-thrifty.

Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
PIII/833 (can support dual). Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.

Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
small. Like, imagine: I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr.
old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.

That would be, what? Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB
IDE hard drive. Built-in UPS (the battery). Quiet as a dormouse. Sips
only tiny amounts of power.

And, you know? There would be no performance difference, because of the
aDSL bottleneck.

> Don't let uncle-enzo die!

I might have him bronzed. ;->


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-42585032-1136175824=:46901-- From johnlowry@gmail.com Sun Jan 01 20:31:39 2006 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.200]:53499) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtHM5-0002H8-Bx for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:31:39 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i12so1923479wra for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:31:29 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=pzztdwWOJEG6+VG58rtL3n60mjn6QzvU3xtR0Lx8WAi00t7dmiwnD3EmQ97lyrE9kqbndN+8vJYiw27f2Z8E1OPmW8YNIssM5mj5l2eMEyLt8YVDpAX1HYvEzTI+I3Df7u1p2ItO5KfesGm7OVok6TW22RQqL2Q+c/uaf7UlSSc= Received: by 10.65.213.18 with SMTP id p18mr104095qbq; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 19:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.181.13 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:29:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 19:29:08 -0800 From: John Lowry To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.184.200 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.184.200 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4255_31731634.1136172548517" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:31:40 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1024 Lines: 29 ------=_Part_4255_31731634.1136172548517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us up wit= h a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a %40 discount. They work at Media Temple www.mediatemple.net -- John Lowry ------=_Part_4255_31731634.1136172548517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us up wit= h a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and have told me = that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a %40 discount.
They work at Media Temple

www= .mediatemple.net

--
John Lowry

------=_Part_4255_31731634.1136172548517-- From jim@well.com Sun Jan 01 20:51:17 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41215) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtHev-0002Ks-Eo ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 20:51:16 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k024ovWT002036; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:50:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 20:53:11 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 04:51:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3014 Lines: 87 Rick and Adrien: what an interesting ping-pong! * The laptop idea (get a cheap laptop for your server if you want quietly to save electri$ity) is useful. * (i had no idea CPUs and motherboards had such nicknames.) I'd like to know what are the best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and such in the first half of 2006. SATA is the way to go? How about all-RAM systems? * What are the tradeoffs of do-it-at-your-house vs colo (your box lives there) vs web hosting (not your box)? The colo and web hosters have T-1 with UPS and wet ware switch operations. The downside of the Uncle Enzo solution (and the cheap laptop solution) is that the older he gets, the more likely is hardware failure. Once something goes (the drives, controller, motherboard...), he's probably permanently gone, as the money to repair/replace is a bad spend, yes? Long as you've got him, love him, but be ready for son of Enzo, what say? On Jan 1, 2006, at 6:51 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >> Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do. > > True. I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire > grills > over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans. The whine is loud and > annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right > next to it in the living room. > > Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that > there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty > frequently remove it from the front-panel grills. > >> I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is >> very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine >> is a very capable processor. > > For its day: very true. If only the damned thing were quieter and > more > power-thrifty. > > Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux > Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly > respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single > PIII/833 (can support dual). Reg had disconnected the leads to one of > _that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and > indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box. > > Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230 > Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and > small. Like, imagine: I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice > 2yr. > old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50. > > That would be, what? Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 > GB > IDE hard drive. Built-in UPS (the battery). Quiet as a dormouse. > Sips > only tiny amounts of power. > > And, you know? There would be no performance difference, because of > the > aDSL bottleneck. > >> Don't let uncle-enzo die! > > I might have him bronzed. ;-> > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From david@sterryit.com Sun Jan 01 21:03:22 2006 Received: from mail22.atl.registeredsite.com ([216.247.37.42]:20496 ident=[U2FsdGVkX1/TgIPnBhvagKTHjKqvE9HnNWkehHJ4vmc=]) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtHq8-0002Tw-Mn for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:03:21 -0800 Received: from imta07a2.registeredsite.com (imta07a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.16]) by mail22.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k025285t001923 for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:02:08 -0500 Received: from [10.168.29.125] ([67.169.101.132]) by imta07a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20060102050208.YSDL2013.imta07a2.registeredsite.com@[10.168.29.125]> for ; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:02:08 -0500 Message-ID: <43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:00:53 -0800 From: David Sterry User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> In-Reply-To: <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH CRAM-MD5 at imta07a2.registeredsite.com from [67.169.101.132] using ID david@sterryit.com at Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:02:07 -0500 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of david@sterryit.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 216.247.37.42 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: david@sterryit.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030401020606060201010401" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:03:23 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7174 Lines: 197 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030401020606060201010401 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This has been a pretty interesting and very indepth discussion. I've never made it to a meeting but I did go the USENIX show < 1 month ago and had a pretty good time. As for the UPS issue, I think for non-mission-critical use, just make sure your bios is set to power the machine back on after power failure and test it out to see that all your services come after you pull the plug. If your bios doesn't offer the option, definitely upgrade. May I second the $50 p4 1gb laptop with broken screen? If that has too much processing power visit http://folding.stanford.edu/ A quick plug: I've recently created a chat server in php/javascript. If you want to put it up on the sflug or any other php enabled server, go for it. You can test it out at http://www/sterryit.com/chat or get your own at http://www.sterryit.com/chatr Thanks, Dave Rick Moen wrote: >Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > > > >>Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do. >> >> > >True. I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills >over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans. The whine is loud and >annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right >next to it in the living room. > >Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that >there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty >frequently remove it from the front-panel grills. > > > >>I think it is an excellent piece of hardware. The 400BX chipset is >>very stable, a great choice for a server. The Pentium III Coppermine >>is a very capable processor. >> >> > >For its day: very true. If only the damned thing were quieter and more >power-thrifty. > >Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux >Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly >respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single >PIII/833 (can support dual). Reg had disconnected the leads to one of >_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and >indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box. > >Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230 >Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and >small. Like, imagine: I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr. >old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50. > >That would be, what? Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB >IDE hard drive. Built-in UPS (the battery). Quiet as a dormouse. Sips >only tiny amounts of power. > >And, you know? There would be no performance difference, because of the >aDSL bottleneck. > > > >>Don't let uncle-enzo die! >> >> > >I might have him bronzed. ;-> > > >_______________________________________________ >sf-lug mailing list >sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > --------------030401020606060201010401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This has been a pretty interesting and very indepth discussion. I've never made it to a meeting but I did go the USENIX show < 1 month ago and had a pretty good time.

As for the UPS issue, I think for non-mission-critical use, just make sure your bios is set to power the machine back on after power failure and test it out to see that all your services come after you pull the plug. If your bios doesn't offer the option, definitely upgrade.  May I second the $50 p4 1gb laptop with broken screen? If that has too much processing power visit http://folding.stanford.edu/

A quick plug: I've recently created a chat server in php/javascript. If you want to put it up on the sflug or any other php enabled server, go for it. You can test it out at http://www/sterryit.com/chat or get your own at http://www.sterryit.com/chatr

Thanks,

Dave

Rick Moen wrote: 
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

  
Well, cleaning out dust is always a good thing to do.
    

True.  I do my best to stop it at the front panel, which has wire grills
over three incredibly noisy 2" high-speed fans.  The whine is loud and
annoying enough that I long ago stopped using my desk, which is right
next to it in the living room.

Anyhow, the few times I've cracked the case, it's seemed to me that
there was very little dust actually _in_ the cavity, because I pretty
frequently remove it from the front-panel grills.

  
I think it is an excellent piece of hardware.  The 400BX chipset is
very stable, a great choice for a server.  The Pentium III Coppermine
is a very capable processor.
    

For its day:  very true.  If only the damned thing were quieter and more
power-thrifty.

Before Reg Charney moved out of the Bay Area, he gave me a VA Linux
Systems 2230 2U system, which is based on the slightly newer and fairly
respectable Intel L440GX "Lancewood" motherboard, and has a single
PIII/833 (can support dual).  Reg had disconnected the leads to one of
_that_ box's fans (and tested to make sure it didn't overheat), and
indeed it's way, way quieter than the current model 500 box.

Anyhow, I have in mind to migrate uncle-enzo over to the model 2230
Lancewood system -- either that, or something really quiet, modern, and
small.  Like, imagine:  I go down to Action Computer and buy a nice 2yr.
old laptop with a broken LCD screen for $50.  

That would be, what?  Some P4/1500 or such with a gig of memory, a 40 GB
IDE hard drive.  Built-in UPS (the battery).  Quiet as a dormouse.  Sips
only tiny amounts of power.

And, you know?  There would be no performance difference, because of the
aDSL bottleneck.

  
Don't let uncle-enzo die!
    

I might have him bronzed.  ;->


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--------------030401020606060201010401-- From jim@well.com Sun Jan 01 21:08:45 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42562) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtHvw-0002ai-FL for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:08:44 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0258U25009431; Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:08:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com> References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:10:45 -0800 To: John Lowry X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:08:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2168 Lines: 64 RFC: I've gone round and round on this colo vs stick to what we've got vs web hosting that I'm dizzy. Issues: * It's a good, good thing that we members have root access to the boxes. Those of us who want to jump in will learn linux better. * It's a good thing that we members have physical access to the boxes. * It's a thing to save money: $15 per month is a better thing than $100 per month. * We assume the ability to tweak our web pages ourselves whenever we like. * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL. * Discounts for the charitable are great. * Sharing costs with others gets better situations at less cost but with possibly more confusion (the others may have root access, too). * XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good, but what's the learning curve? MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting presents the risk of cost overages if storage or bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of being able to drive to the boxes and hang out with the in situ wetware? There's a guy down the street from me who has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof. His clients are dozers who read their email and sports in the evenings. He claims most of the bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the wifi connection between my back deck and his roof. Given our good relations with him, we could make our connection available to others, too, for some consideration (money or help or smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm the box, security, and entire set of servers. Your opinions? On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:29 PM, John Lowry wrote: > I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us > up with a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and > have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a > %40 discount. > They work at Media Temple > > www.mediatemple.net > > -- > John Lowry > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Jan 01 21:16:01 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtI36-0002gF-Bz by authid for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:16:00 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:15:59 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102051559.GK2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> <43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <43B8B385.7010703@sterryit.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:16:01 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1230 Lines: 25 Quoting David Sterry (david@sterryit.com): > As for the UPS issue, I think for non-mission-critical use, just make > sure your bios is set to power the machine back on after power failure > and test it out to see that all your services come after you pull the > plug. If your bios doesn't offer the option, definitely upgrade. This is a good point for most ATX and later machines. By contrast, server-class kit such as the VA Research model 500 and VA Linux Systems 2230 use (annoyingly failure-prone) custom PSUs from Converter Concepts that do power-on automatically. I actually do know of instances of people putting desktop-grade ATX-type systems on UPSes _solely_ as a kludge to get around their inability, otherwise, to come back online automatically after losing power. For example, my wife's older machine that used to run "deirdre.net" in our living room had that problem: It was supposed to be a 24x7 Web server, yet she kept having to visit the living room and frob the start switch, every time there was even a three-second power glitch. _Really_ antique kit like the K6/233 AT-type tower under my kitchen table (the one I use to burn Linux ISOs for visitors during CABAL meetings) escape that problem. From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Jan 01 21:46:59 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtIX5-0002mq-3E by authid for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 21:46:59 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 21:46:58 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Message-ID: <20060102054658.GL2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com> <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 05:47:00 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1432 Lines: 33 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): Just one comment, for starters: > * XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good, > but what's the learning curve? There is none. You don't need to know a blessed thing about how it's done under the hood -- if all you want to do is be a customer. If you use virtual-machine hosting, they've already done the job of setting up the virtual machine (VM) for you. You then get to have (basically) any Linux distro of your choosing within the virtual machine -- which you can then modify to suit yourself. Well, that's the bare-bones theory. In practice, they tell you "Look, because you'll be able to reach the VM only via remote login, we have to install something into it. We offer default installs of (say) current Slackware, Debian, or CentOS. Let us know which one you want." Once you ssh into that default install using the initial default root login password they tell you, you have complete run of the (virtual) machine, and can rearrange it to suit yourself. For example, if they gave you CentOS and you decide you prefer Debian, you would SSH in, and then do chroot installation (http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DebianChrootInstall). The _only_ functional difference between a {XEN|UML} virtual machine and bare metal is that, in the former case, you are sharing machine CPU power, I/O capacity, etc. with other people's VMs. And it's about 85% cheaper. From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Jan 01 22:54:31 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtJaR-000378-1o by authid for ; Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:54:31 -0800 Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:54:30 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Message-ID: <20060102065430.GM2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <528b20610601011929p3a11a954n3ce04b5f1aed9a25@mail.gmail.com> <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 06:54:32 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5564 Lines: 127 Further thoughts: Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL. Sure, but don't forget the driveway effect. Imagine a guy with an hour-long commute every morning. He decides to fix it, by putting banked, 50MPH-rated curves into his 1/4 mile driveway. And of course that really does no good, because the real bottleneck is the 45 mintes he spends going 15MPH on the freeway, not those 30 seconds reaching the street. Being on T-1 instead of aDSL is great if the site is heavily loaded, or if it routinely moves big bulk transfers of data. E.g., when my machine lived on T-1: o The building's LAN didn't break a sweat when I got slashdotted. o I maintained a full Debian package mirror (which was then "only" about 15GB). On aDSL: o The house LAN gets clobbered when I get slashdotted (but survives and is reachable, if barely). o No more full Debian mirror. (I don't have enough disk space, anyway.) Web servers that _aren't_ heavily loaded are rather like that guy with the long driveway. Most remote users, under most circumstances, will have at least one slow hop intervening that's sufficiently pokey that they'll have no way to tell the difference. Mind you, that's not to say that incredibly sucky aDSL can't be found. Try putting your Web server on typical SBC service, for example. ;-> > * Discounts for the charitable are great. People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it really is. You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing of a corporation). The corporation must be non-profit. (Strictly speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.) _Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories. And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a long time. There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the determination letter. For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221. > MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting > presents the risk of cost overages if storage or > bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of > being able to drive to the boxes and hang out > with the in situ wetware? Well, think about it: If you can visit the colo (which might or might not be restricted to certain hours), then you can hard-reboot. You can connect up a monitor and keyboard to diagnose. You can load stuff directly from CD-ROM, DVD, or USB flash drive. Absent that physical access, if the box becomes unreachable, you can telephone or e-mail the colo and have them send a rackmonkey over to power-cycle it or do some very rudimentary types of investigation. If that doesn't work, you can only (as appropriate) either have them PXE boot the box and overwrite it with some distro default load, or unrack it and FedEx it somewhere for investigation. The nice thing is: If you can live with those limitations, you can have your box (or virtual machine) be wherever on Earth offers you the best prices and most reasonable terms. Fancy colos with 24-hour hot-and-cold-running rackmonkeys, laughable for-show "high security" airlock-like mantraps and bullshit NDA-signing requirements imposed on all visitors add a lot to the monthly fees, and basically equate to "Customer has more money than brains, and copies what his golf buddies / resident VC overlord do." > There's a guy down the street from me who > has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof. > His clients are dozers who read their email and > sports in the evenings. He claims most of the > bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog > it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP > address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's > assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the > wifi connection between my back deck and his > roof. Given our good relations with him, we > could make our connection available to others, > too, for some consideration (money or help or > smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm > the box, security, and entire set of servers. Sounds promising, though I'm not sure what the "make our connection available to others" bit refers to. I hope you do realise that people "reading mail and doing Web browsing" are the bandwidth vendor's dream customer. That's exactly the target market that the ISPs have tried to suck up to for years, while trying to discourage any serious-Internet-user customer who, say, pulls down lots of Linux/BSD ISO images, or runs a Web server -- let alone, say, streaming video. The ISP business (like the hosting business) has often involved overcommitting and overpromising limited bandwidth and machine resources, while hoping that most of your customers will (1) use very little of what they're paying for, and (2) not notice the impaired performance. If _you_ as a service provider don't do that, the other guy will, and will be able to undercut your prices. Which means, as long as it's a market where most of the customers have no idea what they're doing and can't tell good service from bad, you have a race for bottom dollar and consequently terrible service for everyone. More at: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles > Opinions? Just pick something. It won't be perfect, and a whole bunch of people will tell you should have done something else, but their preferences would have had drawbacks, too, which they might not even be aware of. From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 01:01:30 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtLZJ-0006I3-N2 by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:01:29 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:01:29 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102090128.GQ2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 09:01:30 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4288 Lines: 106 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > * (i had no idea CPUs and motherboards had > such nicknames.) Intel's been doing that for years. They'll take the inital letter or two of the _real_ model number and expand it out into some human-friendly name, which then becomes the nickname. > I'd like to know what are the > best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and > such in the first half of 2006. Ja, well, that's the trick, isn't it? You can garner a big pile of opinions, and then try to decide which are worth anything. I have a vague, fuzzy, and not-necessarily-easily-usable rule of thumb called Moen's Law of Hardware: "Use what the programmers use." More at: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware Facile theorising^W^WText at that URL explains the rationale and how it's been usefully applied in the past. It's not a by-the-numbers crystal ball for the near future, though. If you can find out to compelling levels of certainty what's going to be great computer hardware for the next few years, don't tell _us_: Keep it to yourself and make a fortune. "Best" implies a single monotonic scale of achievement, which is obviously a no-go when you realise that different situations demand different things. For example, at the moment, I'm so tired of the soprano whine in my living room[1] that "best" would be something _quiet_, small, and power-thrifty, probably light on CPU and with relative emphasis on I/O. I wouldn't give a damn about the video, since the box runs headless. By contrast, a gamer would want something noisy, flashy, and (by my standards) insanely overpowered in the CPU department, with some gonzo cutting-edge video chipset that yields the highest possible 3D framerate. Probably Nvidia Nforce4-whatever stuff, about which see: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html#nvidia (Nvidia hardware has many impassioned fans, many of them 3D gamers, but it is not in general very open-source friendly.) > SATA is the way to go? SATA for the plebes and for non-performance-and-integrity-sensitive commodity boxes. Serial-Attached SCSI (SAS) for databases and such. PATA's gone (except as an attachment, for now, for CD/CDR/DVD drives and old HDs you haven't discarded, yet). Don't buy _new_ PATA HDs! That would be really dumb. > How about all-RAM systems? For tiny, special-purpose embedded applications, sure. Put the whole special-purpose OS build into CMOS and/or ROMs, and run it with a RAMdisk. Otherwise, sorry, not reasonable in any universe whose sky colour I know. > * What are the tradeoffs of do-it-at-your-house > vs colo (your box lives there) vs web hosting > (not your box)? Oh, you can (and, well, should) figure that one out from just logic and knowledge of how different situations work. > The downside of the Uncle Enzo solution > (and the cheap laptop solution) is that the > older he gets, the more likely is hardware > failure. Well, it's not just that. The electric draw of a 1998 rackmount 2U server is non-trivial, and probably is a significant amount of my PG&E bill. The delta between that and the draw from a $50 laptop might be recoverable in a couple of months. (I actually haven't done the math, so that's a SWAG[2].) > Once something goes (the drives, > controller, motherboard...), he's probably > permanently gone, as the money to > repair/replace is a bad spend, yes? Drives are an exception: I have a big pile of obsolete (but tested) SCSI drives in the garage. I also have a couple of spare compatible PSUs. The rest -- you're right -- except those are the parts that aren't failure-prone (except the fan on the PIII and the three 2" case fans). Absent overheating or power surges, the all-eletronic subassemblies tend to live almost forever. It's the mechanical parts that seize up and commit seppuku. Mind, you can then get cascading failures if, say, fan bearings fail, because you then get heat-induced stress and early death on this-and-that other part. [1] No, not Deirdre. She doesn't whine, and she's an alto, anyway. I refer to the PIII rackmount server box. [2] Silly Wild-Assed Guess. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 01:44:51 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtMFH-0006a0-8Q by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:44:51 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:44:50 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102094450.GR2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102002714.GG2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060102021132.85253.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060102025115.GN2501@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 09:44:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1838 Lines: 44 Er, not trying to overwhelm this thread, but an aspect of this that I think is worth stressing: Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > I'd like to know what are the > best choices for CPUs, motherboards, and > such in the first half of 2006. In general, hold back from the new stuff that all the Ziff-Davis / CNet idiots push endlessly. If you read the text following "Moen's Law of Hardware" at http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware , you'll probably get the (correct) idea that I'm stressing that point strongly, because it's counter-intuitive to a lot of newcomers. There's an old techie joke: Q: How do you tell the pioneers in the computer field? A: By the arrows sticking out of their backs. You want someone else to be the pioneer. This point applies to all newly introduced _chipset_ that must have Linux support developed for it (e.g., video chips as to X11 graphics support, SATA, SCSI, sound, ethernet, softmodems, etc.). If you don't know what a "chipset" is, _learn_. ;-> Since you really don't want to have to rely on lame-ass proprietary drivers (if available at all), you want it to be likely that there are _good, well-tested_ open-source drivers. Which means you want to scrupulously avoid the shiny-new fashionable stuff -- along with the exotic stuff, the non-standard-protocols stuff, the cheap-shlock stuff, the new-chipset-every-week stuff. Ideally, you want bog-standard, medium-to-slightly-high quality chipsets that have been included in shipped systems/parts for at least a year. Personally, I like used stuff, which also avoids new-car 20% depreciation-in-the-first-block syndrome. ;-> -- Cheers, "Cthulhu loves me, this I know; because the High Priests tell me so! Rick Moen He won't eat me, no, not yet. He's my Elder God, dank and wet!" rick@linuxmafia.com From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 08:23:35 2006 Received: from web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.119]:35314) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtSSc-0000XR-Uu for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:23:34 -0800 Received: (qmail 71018 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 16:22:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KrKqpFDwQ8XlsiBg6H3cs/CVBDWwonTPl0kT5aioZIE7Qp6fFLjbZnU6Epr/Q9oTar/uo0WL+3bnOKEDRqnKNks7/Hg7Ngk4C17mKt1r/kcNtqrbJ/V6FtPiY33NzJMEwR++8lRcYQvTRNmNyi74oasE2mrZbuKSjR61ie/vJHY= ; Message-ID: <20060102162255.71016.qmail@web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31407.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:22:55 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:22:55 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20EFF736-7B4E-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.119 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1656930209-1136218975=:68842" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:23:36 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7209 Lines: 102 --0-1656930209-1136218975=:68842 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Your neighbor with the T-1 and WiFi sounds like a good solution. Just make sure you get his permission in writing; a man in Florida was recently prosecuted for using his neighbors WiFi without permission (the court thereby setting a precedent that using someone else's WiFi, even if the signal is unprotected, is illegal.) The sf-lug website will probably not require high bandwidth. But hey, bandwidth is good and it reminds me of the old saying "you can never be too rich or too handsome." Having your own server and control over it is good and will require you to learn a bunch of stuff. If you don't want to learn the sys admin stuff, then go with shared hosting at a provider. Cheers, Adrien Lamothe jim stockford wrote: RFC: I've gone round and round on this colo vs stick to what we've got vs web hosting that I'm dizzy. Issues: * It's a good, good thing that we members have root access to the boxes. Those of us who want to jump in will learn linux better. * It's a good thing that we members have physical access to the boxes. * It's a thing to save money: $15 per month is a better thing than $100 per month. * We assume the ability to tweak our web pages ourselves whenever we like. * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL. * Discounts for the charitable are great. * Sharing costs with others gets better situations at less cost but with possibly more confusion (the others may have root access, too). * XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good, but what's the learning curve? MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting presents the risk of cost overages if storage or bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of being able to drive to the boxes and hang out with the in situ wetware? There's a guy down the street from me who has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof. His clients are dozers who read their email and sports in the evenings. He claims most of the bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the wifi connection between my back deck and his roof. Given our good relations with him, we could make our connection available to others, too, for some consideration (money or help or smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm the box, security, and entire set of servers. Your opinions? On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:29 PM, John Lowry wrote: > I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us > up with a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and > have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a > %40 discount. > They work at Media Temple > > www.mediatemple.net > > -- > John Lowry > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1656930209-1136218975=:68842 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Your neighbor with the T-1 and WiFi sounds like a good solution. Just make sure you get his permission in writing; a man in Florida was recently prosecuted for using his neighbors WiFi without permission (the court thereby setting a precedent that using someone else's WiFi, even if the signal is unprotected, is illegal.)

The sf-lug website will probably not require high bandwidth. But hey, bandwidth is good and it reminds me of the old saying "you can never be too rich or too handsome."

Having your own server and control over it is good and will require you to learn a bunch of stuff. If you don't want to learn the sys admin stuff, then go with shared hosting at a provider.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe


jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

RFC:
I've gone round and round on this colo vs stick to
what we've got vs web hosting that I'm dizzy. Issues:
* It's a good, good thing that we members have root
access to the boxes. Those of us who want to jump
in will learn linux better.
* It's a good thing that we members have physical
access to the boxes.
* It's a thing to save money: $15 per month is a
better thing than $100 per month.
* We assume the ability to tweak our web pages
ourselves whenever we like.
* T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.
* Discounts for the charitable are great.
* Sharing costs with others gets better situations at
less cost but with possibly more confusion (the
others may have root access, too).
* XEN or UML linux (virtual OS instances) are good,
but what's the learning curve?

MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
with the in situ wetware?

There's a guy down the street from me who
has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
His clients are dozers who read their email and
sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
wifi connection between my back deck and his
roof. Given our good relations with him, we
could make our connection available to others,
too, for some consideration (money or help or
smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Your opinions?


On Jan 1, 2006, at 7:29 PM, John Lowry wrote:

> I have a few friends that work at a hosting company that can hook us
> up with a %15 discount no problem if we decide to go that route and
> have told me that once we get a non-profit tax code that we will get a
> %40 discount.
> They work at Media Temple
>
> www.mediatemple.net
>
> --
> John Lowry
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1656930209-1136218975=:68842-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 08:38:44 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:37666) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtSgD-0000aZ-L8 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:38:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 63770 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 16:36:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fzZeQZg1u2eG0TwPT9HXNuMpLppg4mW5j+XkV4Q3boWHjTj35qGIiP/QU986Bdw9Rty92tIC7nHQYMQ30WlbRRZZWRr6gF4qM/iQZdxq3Rd7ll/fzhjUpgYJJHNERzVZe2zLHmHA56ypBPE59VT6dPwmVlbgKxxLS6+/VHCSQ/U= ; Message-ID: <20060102163657.63768.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:36:57 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:36:57 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060102065430.GM2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-248633405-1136219817=:62776" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:38:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 12775 Lines: 159 --0-248633405-1136219817=:62776 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote: Further thoughts: Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL. Sure, but don't forget the driveway effect. Imagine a guy with an hour-long commute every morning. He decides to fix it, by putting banked, 50MPH-rated curves into his 1/4 mile driveway. And of course that really does no good, because the real bottleneck is the 45 mintes he spends going 15MPH on the freeway, not those 30 seconds reaching the street. Being on T-1 instead of aDSL is great if the site is heavily loaded, or if it routinely moves big bulk transfers of data. E.g., when my machine lived on T-1: o The building's LAN didn't break a sweat when I got slashdotted. o I maintained a full Debian package mirror (which was then "only" about 15GB). On aDSL: o The house LAN gets clobbered when I get slashdotted (but survives and is reachable, if barely). o No more full Debian mirror. (I don't have enough disk space, anyway.) Web servers that _aren't_ heavily loaded are rather like that guy with the long driveway. Most remote users, under most circumstances, will have at least one slow hop intervening that's sufficiently pokey that they'll have no way to tell the difference. Mind you, that's not to say that incredibly sucky aDSL can't be found. Try putting your Web server on typical SBC service, for example. ;-> > * Discounts for the charitable are great. People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it really is. You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing of a corporation). The corporation must be non-profit. (Strictly speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.) _Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories. And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a long time. There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the determination letter. For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221. > MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting > presents the risk of cost overages if storage or > bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of > being able to drive to the boxes and hang out > with the in situ wetware? Well, think about it: If you can visit the colo (which might or might not be restricted to certain hours), then you can hard-reboot. You can connect up a monitor and keyboard to diagnose. You can load stuff directly from CD-ROM, DVD, or USB flash drive. Absent that physical access, if the box becomes unreachable, you can telephone or e-mail the colo and have them send a rackmonkey over to power-cycle it or do some very rudimentary types of investigation. If that doesn't work, you can only (as appropriate) either have them PXE boot the box and overwrite it with some distro default load, or unrack it and FedEx it somewhere for investigation. The nice thing is: If you can live with those limitations, you can have your box (or virtual machine) be wherever on Earth offers you the best prices and most reasonable terms. Fancy colos with 24-hour hot-and-cold-running rackmonkeys, laughable for-show "high security" airlock-like mantraps and bullshit NDA-signing requirements imposed on all visitors add a lot to the monthly fees, and basically equate to "Customer has more money than brains, and copies what his golf buddies / resident VC overlord do." > There's a guy down the street from me who > has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof. > His clients are dozers who read their email and > sports in the evenings. He claims most of the > bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog > it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP > address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's > assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the > wifi connection between my back deck and his > roof. Given our good relations with him, we > could make our connection available to others, > too, for some consideration (money or help or > smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm > the box, security, and entire set of servers. Sounds promising, though I'm not sure what the "make our connection available to others" bit refers to. I hope you do realise that people "reading mail and doing Web browsing" are the bandwidth vendor's dream customer. That's exactly the target market that the ISPs have tried to suck up to for years, while trying to discourage any serious-Internet-user customer who, say, pulls down lots of Linux/BSD ISO images, or runs a Web server -- let alone, say, streaming video. The ISP business (like the hosting business) has often involved overcommitting and overpromising limited bandwidth and machine resources, while hoping that most of your customers will (1) use very little of what they're paying for, and (2) not notice the impaired performance. If _you_ as a service provider don't do that, the other guy will, and will be able to undercut your prices. Which means, as long as it's a market where most of the customers have no idea what they're doing and can't tell good service from bad, you have a race for bottom dollar and consequently terrible service for everyone. More at: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles > Opinions? Just pick something. It won't be perfect, and a whole bunch of people will tell you should have done something else, but their preferences would have had drawbacks, too, which they might not even be aware of. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-248633405-1136219817=:62776 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Further thoughts:

Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com):

> * T-1 is better than sDSL is better than aDSL.

Sure, but don't forget the driveway effect.

Imagine a guy with an hour-long commute every morning. He decides
to fix it, by putting banked, 50MPH-rated curves into his 1/4 mile
driveway. And of course that really does no good, because the real
bottleneck is the 45 mintes he spends going 15MPH on the freeway,
not those 30 seconds reaching the street.

Being on T-1 instead of aDSL is great if the site is heavily loaded,
or if it routinely moves big bulk transfers of data. E.g., when my
machine lived on T-1:

o The building's LAN didn't break a sweat when I got slashdotted.
o I maintained a full Debian package mirror (which was then "only"
about 15GB).

On aDSL:

o The house LAN gets clobbered when I get slashdotted (but
survives and is reachable, if barely).
o No more full Debian mirror. (I don't have enough disk space,
anyway.)

Web servers that _aren't_ heavily loaded are rather like that guy with
the long driveway. Most remote users, under most circumstances, will
have at least one slow hop intervening that's sufficiently pokey that
they'll have no way to tell the difference.

Mind you, that's not to say that incredibly sucky aDSL can't be found.
Try putting your Web server on typical SBC service, for example. ;->


> * Discounts for the charitable are great.

People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it
really is. You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing
of a corporation). The corporation must be non-profit. (Strictly
speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated
association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.)
_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under
Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories.
And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a
long time.

There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the determination
letter. For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221.

> MediaTemple is in Culver City. Web hosting
> presents the risk of cost overages if storage or
> bandwidth exceeds specs. What's the value of
> being able to drive to the boxes and hang out
> with the in situ wetware?

Well, think about it: If you can visit the colo (which might or might
not be restricted to certain hours), then you can hard-reboot. You can
connect up a monitor and keyboard to diagnose. You can load stuff
directly from CD-ROM, DVD, or USB flash drive.

Absent that physical access, if the box becomes unreachable, you can
telephone or e-mail the colo and have them send a rackmonkey over to
power-cycle it or do some very rudimentary types of investigation.
If that doesn't work, you can only (as appropriate) either have them
PXE boot the box and overwrite it with some distro default load, or
unrack it and FedEx it somewhere for investigation.

The nice thing is: If you can live with those limitations, you can have
your box (or virtual machine) be wherever on Earth offers you the best
prices and most reasonable terms.

Fancy colos with 24-hour hot-and-cold-running rackmonkeys, laughable
for-show "high security" airlock-like mantraps and bullshit NDA-signing
requirements imposed on all visitors add a lot to the monthly fees, and
basically equate to "Customer has more money than brains, and copies
what his golf buddies / resident VC overlord do."

> There's a guy down the street from me who
> has a T-1 line and wifi antennas all over his roof.
> His clients are dozers who read their email and
> sports in the evenings. He claims most of the
> bandwidth is available and doesn't care if I hog
> it somewhat. He claims I can have a static IP
> address (don't know if that's a 10. etc.--let's
> assume it's public). My bottleneck would be the
> wifi connection between my back deck and his
> roof. Given our good relations with him, we
> could make our connection available to others,
> too, for some consideration (money or help or
> smiles). I'm not yet good enough to sysadm
> the box, security, and entire set of servers.

Sounds promising, though I'm not sure what the "make our connection
available to others" bit refers to.

I hope you do realise that people "reading mail and doing Web browsing"
are the bandwidth vendor's dream customer. That's exactly the target
market that the ISPs have tried to suck up to for years, while trying
to discourage any serious-Internet-user customer who, say, pulls down
lots of Linux/BSD ISO images, or runs a Web server -- let alone, say,
streaming video.

The ISP business (like the hosting business) has often involved
overcommitting and overpromising limited bandwidth and machine
resources, while hoping that most of your customers will (1) use
very little of what they're paying for, and (2) not notice the impaired
performance.

If _you_ as a service provider don't do that, the other guy will, and
will be able to undercut your prices. Which means, as long as it's
a market where most of the customers have no idea what they're doing
and can't tell good service from bad, you have a race for bottom dollar
and consequently terrible service for everyone. More at:
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-bicycles

> Opinions?

Just pick something. It won't be perfect, and a whole bunch of people
will tell you should have done something else, but their preferences
would have had drawbacks, too, which they might not even be aware of.



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-248633405-1136219817=:62776-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 08:41:14 2006 Received: from web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.118]:26092) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtSk1-0000dC-Mw for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:41:14 -0800 Received: (qmail 45784 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 16:40:53 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UXou1on/ev7X9kF/k58zyE3Fr9Z4EOJGY+SQSDo9qUKSNRJimjKqZTD+pZ242b8cAym7InYx5Vjm2to5cp/3CVCOOw80m4Khjoldm/+nt/s1nSxilz/LS7/tr8bO1ycgZ2FsHhVwacCXqdMI2aAG0EZbQR/rAB9ugDsAgU2uh1w= ; Message-ID: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:40:53 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.118 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-593117324-1136220053=:44159" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:41:15 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2758 Lines: 40 --0-593117324-1136220053=:44159 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> * Discounts for the charitable are great. >People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it >really is. You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing >of a corporation). The corporation must be non-profit. (Strictly >speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated >association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.) >_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under >Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories. >And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a >long time. >There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the >determination letter. For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221. Why do you want sf-lug to exist as a non-profit? Unless it is a large group with lots of expenses (think BMUG, may it RIP) it doesn't make any sense to do that and it will be way more hassle than it is worth. - Adrien Lamothe --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-593117324-1136220053=:44159 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>> * Discounts for the charitable are great.

>People often think getting tax-exempt status is a lot easier than it
>really is.  You more-or-less need to incorporate (or be under the wing
>of a corporation).  The corporation must be non-profit.  (Strictly
>speaking, you can alternatively use a trust or an "unincorporated
>association", but, a lot of the time, incorporation is involved.)
>_Also_, you must appeal to the IRS for a "determination letter" under
>Internal Revenue Code 501(c)(3) or one of the other similar categories.
>And then you wait for them to get around to you, which can take quite a
>long time.

>There are a bunch of responsibilities before and after the
>determination letter.  For details, read IRS Publications 4220 and 4221.


Why do you want sf-lug to exist as a non-profit? Unless it is a large group with lots of expenses (think BMUG, may it RIP) it doesn't make any sense to do that and it will be way more hassle than it is worth.

- Adrien Lamothe

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-593117324-1136220053=:44159-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 08:50:54 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:22612) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtStN-0000fg-Eq for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:50:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 69116 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Jan 2006 16:50:34 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=D3ukLmcJfYYpVVeiGQS3KANLLTBCBhAYMHaTiwBcN9EzUBbcldJKCAaJ/nvvwMYrFM1w0OCTZNaoaz1YxqMBO6M+5LeoxQ5yfMWQPe5V07orlOMtyzdXPQ1IaEtXkUgn3RfT7/qdlBcb2YrtWD6isDpinTLe7nlc4ggQL+enxtM= ; Message-ID: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:50:34 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 08:50:34 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-451405207-1136220634=:68313" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:50:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2718 Lines: 29 --0-451405207-1136220634=:68313 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Ja, well, that's the trick, isn't it? You can garner a big pile of >opinions, and then try to decide which are worth anything. I have a >vague, fuzzy, and not-necessarily-easily-usable rule of thumb called >Moen's Law of Hardware: "Use what the programmers use." More at: >http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. Sites such as http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.tomshardware.com do a good job of evaluating the latest hardware. While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet these days. The big excitment will happen in March or April, when Sony releases the Playstation 3, which is based on the new IBM/Sony/Toshiba "Cell" processor. IBM has ported Linux to the Cell and Sony plans to use Linux as the operating system. - Adrien Lamothe --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-451405207-1136220634=:68313 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Ja, well, that's the trick, isn't it?  You can garner a big pile of
>opinions, and then try to decide which are worth anything.  I have a
>vague, fuzzy, and not-necessarily-easily-usable rule of thumb called
>Moen's Law of Hardware:  "Use what the programmers use."  More at:
>http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-hardware

My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. Sites such as http://www.anandtech.com and http://www.tomshardware.com do a good job of evaluating the latest hardware. While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet these days. The big excitment will happen in March or April, when Sony releases the Playstation 3, which is based on the new IBM/Sony/Toshiba "Cell" processor. IBM has ported Linux to the Cell and Sony plans to use Linux as the operating system.

- Adrien Lamothe

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-451405207-1136220634=:68313-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 10:53:07 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtUnq-0001MD-Nm by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 10:53:06 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 10:53:06 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Something to consider for hosting--RFC Message-ID: <20060102185305.GO2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102164053.45782.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:53:07 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 501 Lines: 12 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Why do you want sf-lug to exist as a non-profit? Unless it is a large > group with lots of expenses (think BMUG, may it RIP) it doesn't make > any sense to do that and it will be way more hassle than it is worth. I hope you're intending that question for _Jim_, not me: Jim seemed to be speaking of how nice it would be to have tax-exempt charitable status; I was pointing out in response that it's probably a lot more hassle than it's worth. ;-> From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 11:19:14 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:19:15 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1705 Lines: 38 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have > employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." > Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often > technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them. Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers, were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about performance. And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming, anyway, and Linux is an afterthought. I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test results and benchmarks. > While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet > these days. Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T, too). From jmg999@juno.com Mon Jan 02 11:24:41 2006 Received: from outbound-mail.nyc.untd.com ([64.136.20.164]:64954) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVI4-0001eG-Cj for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:24:40 -0800 Received: from webmail43.nyc.untd.com (webmail43.nyc.untd.com [10.141.27.183]) by smtpout06.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9P7ABTPEX2 for (sender ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:23:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmg999@juno.com) by webmail43.nyc.untd.com (jqueuemail) id LDQX8VGA; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:23:13 PST Received: from [67.103.44.2] by webmail43.nyc.untd.com with HTTP: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:22:23 GMT X-Originating-IP: [67.103.44.2] Mime-Version: 1.0 From: "Jeffe" X-UOL-SENDER: jmg999@juno.com Sender: jmg999@juno.com Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:22:23 GMT To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Webmail Version 4.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-ContentStamp: 34:17:2971916886 X-MAIL-INFO: 40d56565d519456519458d01452d1d4c9869f1c50d555d59891cf149e8ec6c39551c6ce9d5a1fc35fce52d01196dfc00e1f5d9d9f5a9d8d9a9d88861d89871b500392c58b9bc3d49b8852c91819d7c89ad055c75955c31add1ac98f50dd8c995697908d57908fc45656d0821298d388cac0d2989596815e81ccc4da51555ecb8a165ecd5ac1919cce5d53d495cf59dada818ada998a8dd18dd08853dcddca5358158483ccd3d7111f9edad58d82108b8d17515add9bc09d911dc48f548880138d9489169881898c8d908f84df16cbcb961a168bd1cece875a10925e57decc58c6c0958ac19fc X-UNTD-OriginStamp: t9yiw8e2vIr3ImkRkKyhooIWadf8ufJwU02d8/AEptSjWc1i2ImoOQ== X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 10.141.27.183|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|webmail43.nyc.untd.com|jmg999@juno.com Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of jmg999@juno.com designates 64.136.20.164 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.136.20.164 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jmg999@juno.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_JUNO_RCVD autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:24:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4991 Lines: 124 Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55 e= -mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online fo= rum. -- Rick Moen wrote: Return-Path: Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75]) by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS for (sender ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S for (sender ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365 helo=3Dlinuxmafia.= com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConf= ig 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid = for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig= ) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.co= m X-Spam-Level: = X-Spam-Status: No, score=3D-4.4 required=3D4.0 tests=3DALL_TRUSTED,BAYES= _00 = autolearn=3Dunavailable version=3D3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178 X-MAIL-INFO:5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d04= 79e5711579c1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug-b= ounces@linuxmafia.com X-UNTD-UBE:-1 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have > employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." > Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often > technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. = They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them. Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers, were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about performance. And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming, anyway, and Linux is an afterthought. I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test results and benchmarks. > While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet > these days. = Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T,= too). _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 11:40:08 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVXL-0001iE-AD by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:40:07 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:40:06 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060102194006.GQ2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:40:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 615 Lines: 18 Quoting Jeffe (jmg999@juno.com): > Please remove me from this list. I'm not the listadmin, but unsubscribing from mailing lists you've chosen to join, rather like bathing and brushing your teeth, is something you're expected to do for yourself. Notice the footer at the bottom of each and every post, including yours? It includes a URL where you can do that -- so you have no excuse for claiming to be unable. > It's really irritating to receive 55 e-mails everyday from you guys. You might also be aware that you can set your subscription to digest mode -- to get digests rather than a copy of each post. From jim@well.com Mon Jan 02 12:56:04 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:44511) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtWi6-00027o-4J for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 12:56:04 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k02KsS0n023823; Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:55:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> References: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <46CCD910-7BD2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:56:42 -0800 To: "Jeffe" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1225/Mon Jan 2 09:54:07 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: [sf-lug] email statistics for sf-lug mailing list X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:56:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6264 Lines: 161 i hate to lose you, Jeffe. What about batch mode-- you receive just one email per day with whatever the day's activity, which many days is none (so no batch mail that day, either). You can make the change yourself; let me know and I'll change however you want. As a note, sf-lug email averages about 3.5 emails per day since we started May 24 2004. The following lists all days that had email of 10 or more for the day. 2006 Jan 2: 9 Jan 1: 13 # this mail will make it 10 for Jan 2: 2005 oct 6: 10 Aug 8: 17 Aug 2: 11 Jul 8: 11 2004 Oct 12: 16 Oct 12: 11 Oct 8: 12 Oct 6 15 Sep 29: 12 Sep 15: 14 Sep 13: 11 Sep 2 13 Aug 16: 16 Aug 12: 15 Aug 3: 11 Aug 2: 10 Jul 27: 26 Jul 19: 21 Jul 16: 12 Jul 8: 26 Jul 6: 19 Jul 5: 22 Jun 24: 18 Jun 23: 16 And the winner is... A tie between July 6, 2004 and July 27, 2004, each shuddering under the burden of 26 emails. On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Jeffe wrote: > Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55 > e-mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online > forum. > > > > -- Rick Moen wrote: > Return-Path: > Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75]) > by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS > for (sender ); > Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) > Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) > by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S > for (sender ); > Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) > Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365 > helo=linuxmafia.com) > by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) > id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800 > Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 > (EximConfig > 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid > for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 > Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 > To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com> > References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Disposition: inline > In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > X-Mas: Bah humbug. > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > From: Rick Moen > X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > Precedence: list > List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > Sender: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com > (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) > X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 > X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on > linuxmafia.com > X-Spam-Level: > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 > autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) > X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178 > X-MAIL-INFO: > 5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c > 1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981 > X-UNTD-Peer-Info: > 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug- > bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-UNTD-UBE:-1 > Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have >> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." >> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often >> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. > > They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary > drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly > out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video > processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. > > During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a > tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only > people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them. > Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with > transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured > motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing > list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't > think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet > chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers, > were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about > performance. > > And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming, > anyway, and Linux is an afterthought. > > I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are > interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test > results and benchmarks. > >> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet >> these days. > > Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on > EM64T, > too). > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! > Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. > Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 22:30:44 2006 Received: from web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.120]:27673) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Etfgc-0005Xh-LU for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 63515 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 06:30:14 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4wfXKLVPC/YYjrSDOGW4pxfdKMisBo5/LPU3VJfa5sgPNn3BAu9de6BKNujHUMQBZo9qOVqqpMsiiC9l2fYQmBudiy8hZgRVA6ApFQ/wSSxa/vpdghAA5ri2nh68YyA4Wppbf0YC7dj9CseTf9cGTgdJmRPAP9470LqY0+upimY= ; Message-ID: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.224.6.226] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:30:14 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:30:14 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.120 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-270575227-1136269814=:62309" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:30:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5154 Lines: 40 --0-270575227-1136269814=:62309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary >drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly >out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video >processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers have worked without a hitch. >I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are >interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test >results and benchmarks. Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux, since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA. SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.) useful, even from a Linux perspective. I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis. So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not installing to having the system lock-up. These problems occurred on several different computers, the same computers that are able to run SuSE 9.3 without a hitch. I hope to one day play around with Debian package management, but I'll have to put that day on hold until I find a Debian distro that actually works. Now I understand why much of the activity at Cabal meetings involves trying to get Debian working on all the different systems people bring; I always thought it odd that so much time was spent on that. I have seen Debian working on systems at Cabal, so I know it can be done. Cheers, Adrien Lamothe --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-270575227-1136269814=:62309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
>drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
>out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video
>processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.

I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers have worked without a hitch.

>I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
>interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
>results and benchmarks.

Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux, since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA. SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.) useful, even from a Linux perspective.

I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis. So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not installing to having the system lock-up. These problems occurred on several different computers, the same computers that are able to run SuSE 9.3 without a hitch. I hope to one day play around with Debian package management, but I'll have to put that day on hold until I find a Debian distro that actually works. Now I understand why much of the activity at Cabal meetings involves trying to get Debian working on all the different systems people bring; I always thought it odd that so much time was spent on that. I have seen Debian working on systems at Cabal, so I know it can be done.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-270575227-1136269814=:62309-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 22:33:42 2006 Received: from web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.125]:41975) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Etfj4-0005Yj-R4 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:33:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 97335 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 06:32:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=E0H0DpEVSt1QGlKGbsbt0X4MgN7SL8cazehmAFIDD3I2NBxkOinyzJr2WCsB4+XsVo3yUK44sGs0ymLs8Fvy5EPvnifzzDVbZqxds/3Asgw0rGTQndvEzkTMVe8Imh8NgtziubJx/8dWXKc77eHWYytZOCZQKd3Ze00P2Zya3AU= ; Message-ID: <20060103063247.97333.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.224.6.226] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:32:47 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:32:47 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060102.112313.16132.66968@webmail43.nyc.untd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.125 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-581174777-1136269967=:95985" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:33:43 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11675 Lines: 142 --0-581174777-1136269967=:95985 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Excuse me, Jeffe, but that is precisely what this type of mailing list is intended for. You can choose to receive weekly digests of the postings, so all the messages are in one file. I'm sorry you misunderstood how this type of forum works. Jeffe wrote: Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55 e-mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online forum. -- Rick Moen wrote: Return-Path: Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75]) by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS for (sender ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S for (sender ); Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365 helo=linuxmafia.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178 X-MAIL-INFO:5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com X-UNTD-UBE:-1 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have > employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." > Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often > technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them. Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers, were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about performance. And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming, anyway, and Linux is an afterthought. I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test results and benchmarks. > While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet > these days. Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T, too). _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping --0-581174777-1136269967=:95985 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Excuse me, Jeffe, but that is precisely what this type of mailing list is intended for. You can choose to receive weekly digests of the postings, so all the messages are in one file. I'm sorry you misunderstood how this type of forum works.


Jeffe <jmg999@juno.com> wrote:
Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55 e-mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online forum.



-- Rick Moen wrote:
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X-MAIL-INFO:5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981
X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com
X-UNTD-UBE:-1
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware.

They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video
processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.

During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
performance.

And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.

I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
results and benchmarks.

> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
> these days.

Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on EM64T,
too).


_______________________________________________
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http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



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Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping --0-581174777-1136269967=:95985-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 02 22:36:04 2006 Received: from web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.120]:32282) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtflF-0005Zz-R2 for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:36:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 64729 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 06:35:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sMRgGPHcrp78YlWe4wW1sQ7i8dSFTnYYTEZ4CF41CL6hxgVSuaJ7MCTzU1ZstRzsLYZaFL8tf8jhcX66xHbYBYODh20BEHURqUdilwbwslLhgLe3U5OgWN5odC2fDF1O2+7YjK+WOitx/ziC4jLfQSASPzS5+lLw4etNB1G7WRU= ; Message-ID: <20060103063502.64726.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.224.6.226] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:35:02 PST Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:35:02 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <46CCD910-7BD2-11DA-B9D5-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.120 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] email statistics for sf-lug mailing list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-129295583-1136270102=:61765" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 06:36:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 14415 Lines: 196 --0-129295583-1136270102=:61765 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hmm..., 3.5 emails a day is quite a bit less than 55 per day... jim stockford wrote: i hate to lose you, Jeffe. What about batch mode-- you receive just one email per day with whatever the day's activity, which many days is none (so no batch mail that day, either). You can make the change yourself; let me know and I'll change however you want. As a note, sf-lug email averages about 3.5 emails per day since we started May 24 2004. The following lists all days that had email of 10 or more for the day. 2006 Jan 2: 9 Jan 1: 13 # this mail will make it 10 for Jan 2: 2005 oct 6: 10 Aug 8: 17 Aug 2: 11 Jul 8: 11 2004 Oct 12: 16 Oct 12: 11 Oct 8: 12 Oct 6 15 Sep 29: 12 Sep 15: 14 Sep 13: 11 Sep 2 13 Aug 16: 16 Aug 12: 15 Aug 3: 11 Aug 2: 10 Jul 27: 26 Jul 19: 21 Jul 16: 12 Jul 8: 26 Jul 6: 19 Jul 5: 22 Jun 24: 18 Jun 23: 16 And the winner is... A tie between July 6, 2004 and July 27, 2004, each shuddering under the burden of 26 emails. On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Jeffe wrote: > Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55 > e-mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online > forum. > > > > -- Rick Moen wrote: > Return-Path: > Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75]) > by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS > for (sender ); > Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) > Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186]) > by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S > for (sender ); > Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST) > Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365 > helo=linuxmafia.com) > by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) > id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800 > Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 > (EximConfig > 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid > for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 > Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800 > To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com> > References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Disposition: inline > In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > X-Mas: Bah humbug. > User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i > From: Rick Moen > X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > Precedence: list > List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list > > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > Sender: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com > (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) > X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 > X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on > linuxmafia.com > X-Spam-Level: > X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 > autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) > X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178 > X-MAIL-INFO: > 5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c > 1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981 > X-UNTD-Peer-Info: > 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug- > bounces@linuxmafia.com > X-UNTD-UBE:-1 > Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have >> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use." >> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often >> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware. > > They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary > drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly > out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video > processing power, relatively deficient in I/O. > > During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a > tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only > people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them. > Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with > transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured > motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing > list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't > think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet > chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers, > were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about > performance. > > And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming, > anyway, and Linux is an afterthought. > > I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are > interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test > results and benchmarks. > >> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet >> these days. > > Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on > EM64T, > too). > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! > Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. > Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. --0-129295583-1136270102=:61765 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hmm..., 3.5 emails a day is quite a bit less than 55 per day...



jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

i hate to lose you, Jeffe. What about batch mode--
you receive just one email per day with whatever
the day's activity, which many days is none (so no
batch mail that day, either). You can make the change
yourself; let me know and I'll change however you want.

As a note, sf-lug email averages about 3.5 emails
per day since we started May 24 2004.

The following lists all days that had email of 10
or more for the day.

2006
Jan 2: 9 Jan 1: 13 # this mail will make it 10 for Jan 2:

2005
oct 6: 10 Aug 8: 17 Aug 2: 11 Jul 8: 11

2004
Oct 12: 16 Oct 12: 11 Oct 8: 12 Oct 6 15
Sep 29: 12 Sep 15: 14 Sep 13: 11 Sep 2 13
Aug 16: 16 Aug 12: 15 Aug 3: 11 Aug 2: 10
Jul 27: 26 Jul 19: 21 Jul 16: 12 Jul 8: 26
Jul 6: 19 Jul 5: 22 Jun 24: 18 Jun 23: 16

And the winner is...
A tie between July 6, 2004 and July 27, 2004,
each shuddering under the burden of 26 emails.



On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:22 AM, Jeffe wrote:

> Please remove me from this list. It's really irritating to receive 55
> e-mails everyday from you guys. You should really look into an online
> forum.
>
>
>
> -- Rick Moen wrote:
> Return-Path:
> Received: from mx15.lax.untd.com (mx15.lax.untd.com [10.130.24.75])
> by maildeliver24.nyc.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXA3DQAYS
> for (sender );
> Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from linuxmafia.com (linuxmafia.com [198.144.195.186])
> by mx15.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABB5U9HXAFQ6M9S
> for (sender );
> Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:20:21 -0800 (PST)
> Received: from localhost.rawbw.com ([127.0.0.1]:48365
> helo=linuxmafia.com)
> by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0))
> id 1EtVDI-0001ca-Rj ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:26 -0800
> Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1
> (EximConfig
> 2.0)) id 1EtVD7-0001cV-RQ by authid
> for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:19:13 -0800
> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> Message-ID: <20060102191913.GP2513@linuxmafia.com>
> References: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Disposition: inline
> In-Reply-To: <20060102165034.69114.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> X-Mas: Bah humbug.
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i
> From: Rick Moen
> X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
> Precedence: list
> List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list
>
> List-Unsubscribe: ,
>
> List-Archive:
> List-Post:
> List-Help:
> List-Subscribe: ,
>
> Sender: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com
> Errors-To: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com
> X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com
> (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig)
> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
> X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on
> linuxmafia.com
> X-Spam-Level:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00
> autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100)
> X-ContentStamp: 11:5:3682511178
> X-MAIL-INFO:
> 5bd90d0dd9a1f50da1f5843df54d951035304519747138897d1545905d0479e5711579c
> 1d985b970b9014d3da1d5b981
> X-UNTD-Peer-Info:
> 198.144.195.186|linuxmafia.com|linuxmafia.com|sf-lug-
> bounces@linuxmafia.com
> X-UNTD-UBE:-1
> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):
>
>> My rule for choosing new, "bleeding edge" hardware, which I have
>> employed with great success, is called "Use what the gamers use."
>> Computer gamers are the most insatiable, curious, and often
>> technically knowledgable consumers of computer hardware.
>
> They also not only have no objection to dependency on proprietary
> drivers; they flock to it. Worse, they favour systems that are grossly
> out of balance by normal-usage standards: heavy on CPU and video
> processing power, relatively deficient in I/O.
>
> During the tech collapse, when the rest of the computer market took a
> tumble, gamers dominated briefly because they were practically the only
> people buying new hardware, and therefore manufacturers loved them.
> Portable system boxes from Shuttle and Alienware popped up with
> transparent cases with neon-lit highlights, and brightly coloured
> motherboards. Gamer kids suddenly started apppearing on Linux mailing
> list dispensing hardware advice, and, when you objected that you didn't
> think it was a good idea leaping to brand-new video, SATA, and ethernet
> chipsets that work on Linux only with proprietary binary-only drivers,
> were told with a sneer that obviously you weren't serious about
> performance.
>
> And, it turns out that they're basically all about _MS-Windows_ gaming,
> anyway, and Linux is an afterthought.
>
> I read Anandtech and Tom's Hardware from time to time; the opinions are
> interesting but _utterly_ Windows-centric -- as are 100% of their test
> results and benchmarks.
>
>> While on the subject, using AMD-based systems is a pretty safe bet
>> these days.
>
> Use only 2.6 kernels on Opterons. 2.4 has problem, there (and on
> EM64T,
> too).
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
> Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage.
> Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. --0-129295583-1136270102=:61765-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 02 23:05:23 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtgEU-0005qk-DD by authid for ; Mon, 02 Jan 2006 23:05:22 -0800 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 23:05:21 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 07:05:23 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4477 Lines: 84 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and > configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've > run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that > would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers > have worked without a hitch. (I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.: Half-Life is _not_ a Linux application. It's a DirectX Windows one.) When I said "grossly out of balance", I of course meant in the context of more typical Linux usage (office-type apps, Web browsing, etc.). A typical 3D gamer box has, for _any usage but gaming_, an overpriced CPU that goes almost unused, and an overpriced video card that goes almost unused. Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be much less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes. It should go without saying that, when you build a box for Windows 3D gaming (whether on straight MS-Windows or in a Win32 emulation environment), then a machine such as you describe would _not_ be "grossly out of balance" -- because the highly atypical usage model works best with exactly that sort of box. However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that radically different usage scenario. Why? Because mine would have the money allocated differently among the subassemblies, taking _a lot_ away from where it doesn't matter quite that much (CPU, video) and sinking more into what relatively lags on the gamer box (I/O). > Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux, > since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them > purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself > and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA. > SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever > hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms > Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware > issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.) > useful, even from a Linux perspective. I note that SUSE Linux usually includes quite a lot of proprietary, binary-only hardware drivers -- more than do most distros. Mind you, that's fine: It can be handy to have, as you found out. However, the point is that _needing_ them is undesirable, when you can avoid it. A lot of people with such hardware (winmodems, most USB ADSL bridges, certain exotic video chips, some SATA, some sound chips, some ethernet) have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say). And others have found themselves with mysterious kernel-level bugs and kernel panics: When they try to report those to the Linux kernel mailing list, they're surprised to see the bug report rejected because their kernel was "tainted" by the proprietary driver. (The kernel coders had to finally put in code to detect proprietary drivers and automark any bug reports as suspect, because they were being driven crazy by Nvidia users reporting "kernel bugs" that originated in Nvidia drivers and couldn't be fixed for lack of source code access.) > I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to > uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with > SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis. > So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not > installing to having the system lock-up. That might have been because, unlike SUSE 9.3, those Debian-based distros don't have as huge a collection of proprietary hardware drivers. Dunno: It's speculation. (Obviously, SUSE 10.0 has separate problems, for other reasons entirely.) By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully) available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions -- for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any grant of a right of redistribution to the public. From jim@well.com Tue Jan 03 08:09:17 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48384) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtoiV-0000oH-Pa ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:09:17 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k03G8o1K014095; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:08:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:11:05 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:09:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5141 Lines: 109 rick, you mention i/o considerations when you discuss balance. could you elucidate some? Balance seems to mean getting a right sufficiency of CPU, RAM, storage, console (display, keyboard, mouse), and seems to me other i/o-ish stuff. my interest is first the bus: PCI is best? then NIC? then what? gratefully, jim On Jan 2, 2006, at 11:05 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >> I've done some work for an internet cafe, helping to set up and >> configure game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life. We've >> run SuSE, Slackware, Debian and Red Hat successfully on hardware that >> would probably qualify as "grossly out of balance." So far the servers >> have worked without a hitch. > > (I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.: Half-Life is _not_ a > Linux application. It's a DirectX Windows one.) > > When I said "grossly out of balance", I of course meant in the context > of more typical Linux usage (office-type apps, Web browsing, etc.). A > typical 3D gamer box has, for _any usage but gaming_, an overpriced CPU > that goes almost unused, and an overpriced video card that goes almost > unused. Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux > environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be > much > less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes. > > It should go without saying that, when you build a box for Windows 3D > gaming (whether on straight MS-Windows or in a Win32 emulation > environment), then a machine such as you describe would _not_ be > "grossly out of balance" -- because the highly atypical usage model > works best with exactly that sort of box. > > However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told > me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux > general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of > money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that > radically different usage scenario. > > Why? Because mine would have the money allocated differently among the > subassemblies, taking _a lot_ away from where it doesn't matter quite > that much (CPU, video) and sinking more into what relatively lags on > the > gamer box (I/O). > > >> Well, I've probably been spoiled, because I've been using SuSE Linux, >> since version 5.1. I've installed SuSE on many systems, some of them >> purchased at thrift shops, others brand new that I've built for myself >> and others, and name-brand systems purchased at places like CompUSA. >> SuSE always worked, out of the box, without problem, on whatever >> hardware I installed it on. So, when I've gone to AnandTech and Toms >> Hardware for research, I've found their advice regarding hardware >> issues (stability, which components play nice with each other, etc.) >> useful, even from a Linux perspective. > > I note that SUSE Linux usually includes quite a lot of proprietary, > binary-only hardware drivers -- more than do most distros. Mind you, > that's fine: It can be handy to have, as you found out. However, the > point is that _needing_ them is undesirable, when you can avoid it. > > A lot of people with such hardware (winmodems, most USB ADSL bridges, > certain exotic video chips, some SATA, some sound chips, some ethernet) > have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become > unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate > the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say). And others have found > themselves with mysterious kernel-level bugs and kernel panics: When > they try to report those to the Linux kernel mailing list, they're > surprised to see the bug report rejected because their kernel was > "tainted" by the proprietary driver. (The kernel coders had to finally > put in code to detect proprietary drivers and automark any bug reports > as suspect, because they were being driven crazy by Nvidia users > reporting "kernel bugs" that originated in Nvidia drivers and couldn't > be fixed for lack of source code access.) > > >> I've recently evaluated several Debian-based distros, due to >> uncertainty about events at Novell/SuSE and problems experienced with >> SuSE 10.0. I've tried Kanotix 3-2005, Kubuntu 5.10, and Simply Mepis. >> So far, I've had problems with all three of those distros, from not >> installing to having the system lock-up. > > That might have been because, unlike SUSE 9.3, those Debian-based > distros don't have as huge a collection of proprietary hardware > drivers. > Dunno: It's speculation. (Obviously, SUSE 10.0 has separate problems, > for other reasons entirely.) > > By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully) > available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has > much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions -- > for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any > grant of a right of redistribution to the public. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 08:55:08 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtpRD-0000yP-7H by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:55:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:55:06 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com> <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:55:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3958 Lines: 81 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > rick, you mention i/o considerations when you > discuss balance. > could you elucidate some? Hi, sorry to say that I'm going to have to rush this reply -- a lot. (Am doing work stuff.) 'Hope it comes out coherent and relevant. I sort of threw into "I/O" just about everything else other than the aspects I mentioned: disk access, various actual I/O ports, memory access. But I meant primarily disk (mass storage subsystem) performance -- given that gamers _are_ smart enough to ensure adequate amounts of fast RAM on a fast memory bus. > my interest is first the bus: PCI is best? > then NIC? then what? Apologies, but I don't understand the question. In _any_ given situation, the component you want to take out and shoot is whatever is the one that's holding you back, that is the most significant bottleneck for whatever operations are going on at that moment. As a (hypothetical) system designer, your task is to allocate your spending dollars in the various categories so that they do the most good, in the sense that (theoretically) shifting a dollar from that aspect of the machine to any other would result in slower and less satisfactory performance. That's what a bottleneck _is_. Basically, bottlenecks exist only relative to usage models and situations. It makes no sense to say "You must always get a good X". Imagine that I had an Internet server running my domain on a 1.54Mbps T-1 line, again. (That would elminate, for purposes of our hypothetical, the current aDSL bottleneck, in the presence of which basically _all_ of uncle-enzo's pieces are so far in excess of need that it's a "who cares" situation.) In that case, _if_ I attempted to do that server-role duty (Apache httpd, MySQL, rsync daemon, vsftpd, OpenSSHd, ntpd, etc.) using Linux on a typical gamer box, it would be the (usually) anemic hard drive subsystem that held the system back, mostly. By contrast, the extremely expensive CPU(s) would go almost entirely to waste, and ditto (of course) the Nvidia GeForce4 video thingie, even if the machine didn't run headless as normal. The machine that actually _did_ fill that role (on the T-1) back around 1997 also simultaneously served as my main desktop box -- multiple xterms, AbiWord, Netscape Communicator, Gnumeric, Window Maker for the window manager. It was my now-antique K2/233 with 128MB of PC-100 CAS2 SDRAM and two very fast SCSI drives. And _that_ machine could saturate the T-1 while simultaneously being my desktop box in foreground. Sorry that I can't give you easy, bankable guidelines: In truth, all aspects of the hardware are important, but just not _equally_ important unless you either cut too deeply or splurge too much in that area. What is too much or too little is a matter of judgement and knowing what _types_ of stress (in what hardware areas) the intended machine usage will put on the box. Adrien's point is a really good one, that a machine that is intended to run Half-Life -- either in a pure MS-Windows environment or in an emulated Windows environment under Linux/X11 -- pretty much ought to have its strengths and weaknesses arranged the way a typical gamer box is: stupendous (and expensive) CPU and 3D-oriented video, and relatively sucky in I/O areas particularly mass storage performance. My point was intended to parallel that: that, even aside from open-source vs. proprietary driver issues, a box intended for _more typical_ tasks in a native-Linux environment (whether server or desktop) would do better at any given price point if it had less emphasis in typical-gamer areas, and more on good HD performance. (Snappy video is often a really good idea, but that does _not_ require fancy 3D stuff used basically only in 3D games and some sorts of exotic scientific "visualisation" software. E.g., an aging Matrox card with exceptional 2D aka regular video imaging might be just the thing.) From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 09:45:04 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtqDX-0001KP-Fv by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 09:45:03 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:45:02 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060103174502.GA4933@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060103063014.63513.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060103070521.GA2513@linuxmafia.com> <8B30F739-7C73-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060103165506.GJ2501@linuxmafia.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:45:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1620 Lines: 33 Hmm, I did warn that I was going to be rushed. > As a (hypothetical) system designer, your task is to allocate your > spending dollars in the various categories so that they do the most > good, in the sense that (theoretically) shifting a dollar from that > aspect of the machine to any other would result in slower and less > satisfactory performance. That's what a bottleneck _is_. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ More accurately, that's what the absence of a bottleneck is. > The machine that actually _did_ fill that role (on the T-1) back around > 1997 also simultaneously served as my main desktop box -- multiple > xterms, AbiWord, Netscape Communicator, Gnumeric, Window Maker for the > window manager. It was my now-antique K2/233 with 128MB of PC-100 [...] ^^^^^^ That's "K6/233", AMD's predecessor to the Athlon.[1] Pretty much the last x86 CPU to run super-cool -- though Intel's Pentium M "mobile" series is reported to be respectable. It's a measure of just how much CPU power (usually) doesn't matter in (at least conservative-type) typical Linux deployments that the 1997-era K6 box is _still_ pretty zippy, either functioning as pretty much any type or server or running lightweight X11 desktop environments such as Window Maker. Of course, if I tried to animation-rendering work, or KDE with all the chrome-effects enabled, it'd be toast. [1] In all aspects other than floating-point performance, it was the equal of the PPro and Pentium II CPUs of the same era -- and cost a great deal less, _and_ ran a lot cooler. From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 09:53:25 2006 Received: from web53607.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.40]:44896) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtqLW-0001NA-T9 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 09:53:24 -0800 Received: (qmail 11020 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Jan 2006 17:53:10 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=gec7nUDIO1mhpbz5Z2piU7Jz/OyQHcZtu2rGN6PneItjRIhEX2N3wDafmKrVJutzi1k4nrX5DlIrngXCOpxs33JjQlgluM+7nqex5E1PUnpRQq+ZlPTJRB+mwrLu2Qrtf3aZ0vFb5UEdQk8+wjXwzp5gyxD1jTGmvhejtiC1yWI= ; Message-ID: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:53:10 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.40 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.1 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_20,FORGED_YAHOO_RCVD, HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_SUBJECT autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1800074749-1136310790=:8970" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] (no subject) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: vincent polite List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:53:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 963 Lines: 20 --0-1800074749-1136310790=:8970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this world? http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/ Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1800074749-1136310790=:8970 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi,
Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this world?
 
Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/
--0-1800074749-1136310790=:8970-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 10:42:08 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Etr6l-0001iz-J0 by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:42:07 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:42:06 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Message-ID: <20060103184206.GJ2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060103175310.11018.qmail@web53607.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 18:42:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1818 Lines: 50 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. > Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this > world? > > http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/ Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can hear a lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on Rails. (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google Maps). Of possible related interest: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800 From: Augie Schwer Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group To: announce@nblug.org Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails Hello NBLUG'ers, This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and very popular Ruby on Rails development framework. Description: "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration. Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of the best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun." Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm Location: O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA http://nblug.org/genloc We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please send an e-mail to speakers@nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward to seeing you all there at the next meeting. From david@sterryit.com Tue Jan 03 13:42:11 2006 Received: from mail25.atl.registeredsite.com ([216.247.37.45]:7126 ident=[U2FsdGVkX1+f52xWz52FncTW0lDdypq8T1HgmcOebVA=]) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ettul-0002ov-7D for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 13:42:10 -0800 Received: from imta08a2.registeredsite.com (imta08a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.17]) by mail25.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k03LfkoT019993 for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:41:46 -0500 Received: from Diablo ([71.139.58.49]) by imta08a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20060103214146.UIQA10036.imta08a2.registeredsite.com@Diablo> for ; Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:41:46 -0500 From: "David Sterry" To: Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 13:41:43 -0800 Message-ID: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <20060103184206.GJ2513@linuxmafia.com> Importance: Normal X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at imta08a2.registeredsite.com from [71.139.58.49] using ID david@sterryit.com at Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:41:46 -0500 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of david@sterryit.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 216.247.37.45 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: david@sterryit.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: RE: [sf-lug] (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david@sterryit.com List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:42:11 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2708 Lines: 83 You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. You can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at http://www.sterryit.com/chatr It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated. David Sterry, MCSE Tel 650-773-5942 Fax 650-523-8634 David@SterryIT.com http://www.SterryIT.com 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200 Redwood City, CA 94063 -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. > Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this > world? > > http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/ Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can hear a lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on Rails. (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google Maps). Of possible related interest: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800 From: Augie Schwer Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group To: announce@nblug.org Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails Hello NBLUG'ers, This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and very popular Ruby on Rails development framework. Description: "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration. Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of the best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun." Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm Location: O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA http://nblug.org/genloc We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please send an e-mail to speakers@nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward to seeing you all there at the next meeting. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 19:28:20 2006 Received: from web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.120]:29821) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EtzJf-00083H-4R for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:28:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 17930 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2006 03:27:51 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IKp0BAm3DyAmtGQxORl6sg4El1aRoEHk/7Ss23dQWq1VpJ4W+WnRPmQ5IMO4CYFsLcw35SSaIlfDrLZBkQW+qZx3N7IHRUq6ZLfhEgIPKvvpWyeM0RWunxsya1p6sAu3bvpy3kmKSY4mmqXKtM0BxFAvCzdpf4MZuFbKhBvC/RM= ; Message-ID: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:27:51 PST Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 19:27:51 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.120 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2131144449-1136345271=:17627" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:28:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4991 Lines: 56 --0-2131144449-1136345271=:17627 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >(I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.: Half-Life is _not_ a Linux application. It's a DirectX Windows one.) I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life." This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux versions. >Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux >environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be >much less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes. That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy. >However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told >me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux >general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of >money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that >radically different usage scenario. Well, we were actually given a server by a corporate sponsor, as part of a special event, so price wasn't an issue. The box is an Athlon 64 with Serial ATA RAID. It is currently running Fedora Core. >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say). My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.) >By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully) >available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has >much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions -- >for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any >grant of a right of redistribution to the public. If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies are not given away for profit. Cheers, Adrien Lamothe --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-2131144449-1136345271=:17627 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>(I note that you mean under WINE or WineX, etc.:  Half-Life is _not_ a
Linux application.  It's a DirectX Windows one.)  

I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life." This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux versions.

>Running those more-typical applications in a native-Linux
>environment heightens that effect, in that Linux itself tends to be
>much less CPU-intensive than are Microsoft's Win32 OSes.

That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy.

>However, if you handed me the price of one of those machines and told
>me, "Rick, see if you can get better performance for native-Linux
>general-variety desktop or server usage, using the same amount of
>money", I'll guarantee I'd be able to _smoke_ your box -- in that
>radically different usage scenario.

Well, we were actually given a server by a corporate sponsor, as part of a special event, so price wasn't an issue. The box is an Athlon 64 with Serial ATA RAID. It is currently running Fedora Core.

>have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
>unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate
>the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).

My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.)

>By "SUSE 9.3", I refer to the boxed-set edition that was (lawfully)
>available on a per-seat licensed basis from retail vendors, which has
>much more proprietary code than the various redistributable editions --
>for the simple reason that many of those proprietary codebases lack any
>grant of a right of redistribution to the public.

If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies are not given away for profit.

Cheers,

Adrien Lamothe

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-2131144449-1136345271=:17627-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 19:52:26 2006 Received: from web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.125]:32428) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Etzh0-00089z-S4 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:52:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 63965 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2006 03:51:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=K6QHlZy5JtacrENO4HAxC+t8sJUxZ/hBHMhpnYX9y4CcNOV3i4kIaiPj6rJ2E22H1ybKoEekg3eaEMnxGgcc/0qJSIzBw5DAMNSWv6/ncsiz2CwJ/mRfRHO/IRyOyETu4em1hP1/dMaW3QXby/XQHRuCo+AKngpBcf2bcwNxCY4= ; Message-ID: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:51:59 PST Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 19:51:59 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.125 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2102008119-1136346719=:63247" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:52:27 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4508 Lines: 64 --0-2102008119-1136346719=:63247 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >I sort of threw into "I/O" just about everything else other than the >aspects I mentioned: disk access, various actual I/O ports, memory >access. But I meant primarily disk (mass storage subsystem) >performance -- given that gamers _are_ smart enough to ensure adequate amounts of >fast RAM on a fast memory bus. The computer industry has been going the way of the automotive industry - do things "good enough", but "cheap". Hardly anyone uses SCSI anymore, many people think SATA is just as fast, because of certain specs the vendors flaunt to encourage such mis-perception. However, what they fail to mention is that SCSI devices have a SCSI controller, and that a SCSI controller is a separate slave microprocessor that handles the bulk of data I/O. When the CPU/operating system wants data from a SCSI device, the SCSI controller is given some basic instructions: 1. where to find the data I want. 2. a location to put that data. The SCSI controller goes about doing its work and transfers the data directly to memory, using a DMA channel to do so. When the data transfer is complete, the SCSI controller signals the CPU that "hey, I'm done, the data you wanted is now where you wanted it." What does this mean to system performance? It means the CPU is free for other activity during a large portion of the data transfer. Under IDE, the CPU is occupied for the entire period of data transfer. While this is a slightly simplified description, it does describe the architecture and salient differences. For most people's computer usage, this performance gain is not enough to justify spending more for SCSI, so people settle for "good enough." By the way, SCSI is still expensive. So, how much are you willing to pay for a "smoking" system? Depends on your requirements and the economic costs vs. benefits. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-2102008119-1136346719=:63247 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 
>I sort of threw into "I/O" just about everything else other than the
>aspects I mentioned:  disk access, various actual I/O ports, memory
>access.  But I meant primarily disk (mass storage subsystem) 
>performance -- given that gamers _are_ smart enough to ensure adequate amounts of
>fast RAM on a fast memory bus.

The computer industry has been going the way of the 
automotive industry - do things "good enough", but "cheap".
Hardly anyone uses SCSI anymore, many people think SATA is
just as fast, because of certain specs the vendors flaunt
to encourage such mis-perception. However, what they fail
to mention is that SCSI devices have a SCSI controller, and
that a SCSI controller is a separate slave microprocessor
that handles the bulk of data I/O. When the CPU/operating
system wants data from a SCSI device, the SCSI controller
is given some basic instructions:  1. where to find the data I
 want. 
2. a location to put that data.
The SCSI controller goes about doing its work and transfers
the data directly to memory, using a DMA channel to do so.
When the data transfer is complete, the SCSI controller
signals the CPU that "hey, I'm done, the data you wanted
is now where you wanted it." What does this mean to system
performance? It means the CPU is free for other activity
during a large portion of the data transfer. Under IDE,
the CPU is occupied for the entire period of data transfer.
While this is a slightly simplified description, it does
describe the architecture and salient differences.
For most people's computer usage, this performance gain
is not enough to justify spending more for SCSI, so people
settle for "good enough."

By the way, SCSI is still expensive. So, how much are you
willing to pay for a "smoking" system? Depends on your
requirements and the economic costs vs. benefits.

-
 Adrien




Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-2102008119-1136346719=:63247-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 20:06:34 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Etzuz-0008O4-FV by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:06:33 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:06:32 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060104032751.17928.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:06:34 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6254 Lines: 147 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life." > This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to > host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers > are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux > versions. Ah. I had no idea that Half-Life uses a client-server model, not being, as you probably figured out, much of a gamer. [low CPU draw, in Linux:] > That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with > a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy. Both environments tend towards the "heavy" in the sense of RAM gulping, but not necessarily CPU usage -- especially if you cool it with the optional visual effects glitter. (This is easily adjustable in KDE if not GNOME.) It doesn't stand to reason that merely running a CORBA broker would create a heavy CPU draw, y'know: It's just an object broker. That would hit up I/O (meaning mostly disk) and RAM, but not so much CPU. > >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become > >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate > >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say). > > My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically > configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of > supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.) I am not sure if you got my point on the fragility and lack of portability of proprietary drivers, or not. Your remarks pretty much ignore what I said. I'm delighted that your hardware works well, but that really is unresponsive to what I said. > If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and > giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies > are not given away for profit. This is a frequently repeated misconception -- which I've been obliged to disprove in several forums before, so I happen to have the material handy: First of all, that is not what the licence says, if you heed its _full_ language (cited below). Second, even if it did say that, Novell/SUSE Linux AG would not have the copyright title enabling it to speak for (and nullify the non-redistributable licensing of) Adobe, Real Networks, Opera Software ASA, and Matrica AG. Disk 1 includes a number of licensing-relevant files in its root directory. Here are the English-language ones (as they're also duplicated with German-language ones). COPYING COPYRIGHT LICENSE.TXT Predictably, COPYING is the text of GPLv2. COPYRIGHT is, in part, Novell's brief GPL-compliance document, pointing out that a number of packages' source code is available, and stating where to get it. It also includes the following warning: Not all programs on the CDs are free software. Some of them are shareware, restricted to noncommercial use, or may have other restrictive conditions. The package information mentions the respective license and authors. We cannot, however, ensure the correctness of this information. In cases of doubt, refer to the original copyright information of the respective programs. LICENSE.TXT asserts formation of a contract betwen any recipient and Novell, Inc., concerning "Software", which is defined as "the software product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if any), and accompanying documentation". The "title" is "SUSE LINUX PROFESSIONAL 9.3". This text follows: You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). However, the next paragraph severely limits that grant: The Software is a modular operating system. Most of the components are open source packages, developed independently, and accompanied by separate license terms. Your license rights with respect to individual components accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement (including, for example, the "Other License Terms and Restrictions," below) shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms. [...] The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms. [...] Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with hardware or other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor other than Novell. Interestingly, even the generous-sounding Novell rights grant cited above is non-transferrable! Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without the prior written approval of Novell. So, you're allowed to "make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization", but then those recipients don't enjoy the same rights? Weird. Interestingly, Novell restricts benchmarking! Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to You if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on the Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor. You may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be unreasonably withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test of the Software. Anyhow, I think that more than suffices to show that the claim is incorrect. That is why I refer to 9.3 Professional as a "shrik-wrapped retail edition", one of several they've had, off and on. I try to keep track of the editions and their legal status, here: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/suse-product-strategy.html From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Jan 03 20:27:58 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:32819) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Eu0Do-0008SF-L8 for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:27:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 29756 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2006 04:25:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KsgssG1S4rcGgsfH/S7fYEIyqy5GXBZtNOqsWXvj2eiuKn+fwK16qggJ3KOuJW9GFT6P7g+yZsHWaA6Ut6EYKoQsIP9ph+w4kclUgLYHL1QQUxS5GXzk/TsptC3UPP0UUOr1aVfgP9pgjwLgCIV3QpOsMdjxjfGFSO+lpzFlE1I= ; Message-ID: <20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:25:42 PST Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:25:42 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1548886942-1136348742=:29629" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:27:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 15620 Lines: 188 --0-1548886942-1136348742=:29629 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What program, bundled with SuSE 9.3, disallows non-for-profit copying and dissemination? Not allowing customers to benchmark a software product is illegal and unenforceable. Novell profit declined 90% last quarter. We'll see what happens next quarter. Apparently most, if not all, of the SuSE develoers are gone from Novell. There is no way to know what is really happening at Novell, but the SuSE developers essentially WERE SuSE Linux. If Novell doesn't replace those developers, then the SuSE acquisition was a waste. But you have to be happy for the SuSE people, who toiled hard for many years, because they most likely received a very handsome payday when acquired by Novell. - Adrien Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life." > This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to > host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers > are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux > versions. Ah. I had no idea that Half-Life uses a client-server model, not being, as you probably figured out, much of a gamer. [low CPU draw, in Linux:] > That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with > a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy. Both environments tend towards the "heavy" in the sense of RAM gulping, but not necessarily CPU usage -- especially if you cool it with the optional visual effects glitter. (This is easily adjustable in KDE if not GNOME.) It doesn't stand to reason that merely running a CORBA broker would create a heavy CPU draw, y'know: It's just an object broker. That would hit up I/O (meaning mostly disk) and RAM, but not so much CPU. > >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become > >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate > >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say). > > My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically > configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of > supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.) I am not sure if you got my point on the fragility and lack of portability of proprietary drivers, or not. Your remarks pretty much ignore what I said. I'm delighted that your hardware works well, but that really is unresponsive to what I said. > If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and > giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies > are not given away for profit. This is a frequently repeated misconception -- which I've been obliged to disprove in several forums before, so I happen to have the material handy: First of all, that is not what the licence says, if you heed its _full_ language (cited below). Second, even if it did say that, Novell/SUSE Linux AG would not have the copyright title enabling it to speak for (and nullify the non-redistributable licensing of) Adobe, Real Networks, Opera Software ASA, and Matrica AG. Disk 1 includes a number of licensing-relevant files in its root directory. Here are the English-language ones (as they're also duplicated with German-language ones). COPYING COPYRIGHT LICENSE.TXT Predictably, COPYING is the text of GPLv2. COPYRIGHT is, in part, Novell's brief GPL-compliance document, pointing out that a number of packages' source code is available, and stating where to get it. It also includes the following warning: Not all programs on the CDs are free software. Some of them are shareware, restricted to noncommercial use, or may have other restrictive conditions. The package information mentions the respective license and authors. We cannot, however, ensure the correctness of this information. In cases of doubt, refer to the original copyright information of the respective programs. LICENSE.TXT asserts formation of a contract betwen any recipient and Novell, Inc., concerning "Software", which is defined as "the software product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if any), and accompanying documentation". The "title" is "SUSE LINUX PROFESSIONAL 9.3". This text follows: You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware, or service). However, the next paragraph severely limits that grant: The Software is a modular operating system. Most of the components are open source packages, developed independently, and accompanied by separate license terms. Your license rights with respect to individual components accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement (including, for example, the "Other License Terms and Restrictions," below) shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms. [...] The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such license terms. [...] Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with hardware or other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor other than Novell. Interestingly, even the generous-sounding Novell rights grant cited above is non-transferrable! Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without the prior written approval of Novell. So, you're allowed to "make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software outside Your organization", but then those recipients don't enjoy the same rights? Weird. Interestingly, Novell restricts benchmarking! Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to You if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on the Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor. You may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be unreasonably withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the results of any benchmark test of the Software. Anyhow, I think that more than suffices to show that the claim is incorrect. That is why I refer to 9.3 Professional as a "shrik-wrapped retail edition", one of several they've had, off and on. I try to keep track of the editions and their legal status, here: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/suse-product-strategy.html _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1548886942-1136348742=:29629 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
What program, bundled with SuSE 9.3, disallows non-for-profit copying and dissemination?

Not allowing customers to benchmark a software product is illegal and unenforceable.

Novell profit declined 90% last quarter. We'll see what happens next quarter. Apparently most, if not all, of the SuSE develoers are gone from Novell. There is no way to know what is really happening at Novell, but the SuSE developers essentially WERE SuSE Linux. If Novell doesn't replace those developers, then the SuSE acquisition was a waste. But you have to be happy for the SuSE people, who toiled hard for many years, because they most likely received a very handsome payday when acquired by Novell.

- Adrien


Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> I said "... game servers running Linux to host the game Half-Life."
> This sentence is probably unclear. It means the hardware is used to
> host the Half-Life game servers, not the clients. Half-Life servers
> are written for both Unix/Linux and Windows. The site uses the Linux
> versions.

Ah. I had no idea that Half-Life uses a client-server model, not being,
as you probably figured out, much of a gamer.

[low CPU draw, in Linux:]

> That depends. KDE has gotten fairly heavy in recent years. GNOME, with
> a CORBA underpinning, is probably equally heavy.

Both environments tend towards the "heavy" in the sense of RAM gulping,
but not necessarily CPU usage -- especially if you cool it with the
optional visual effects glitter. (This is easily adjustable in KDE if not
GNOME.)

It doesn't stand to reason that merely running a CORBA broker would
create a heavy CPU draw, y'know: It's just an object broker. That
would hit up I/O (meaning mostly disk) and RAM, but not so much CPU.

> >have found out the hard way that the proprietary drivers tend to become
> >unusable as the kernel's interfaces change, or when you try to migrate
> >the hardware to a new box (ia32 to AMD64, say).
>
> My SuSE distros have utilized standard stuff, unless specifically
> configured otherwise. SuSE has also done an excellent job of
> supporting AMD, both 32 and 64.)

I am not sure if you got my point on the fragility and lack of
portability of proprietary drivers, or not. Your remarks pretty much
ignore what I said. I'm delighted that your hardware works well, but
that really is unresponsive to what I said.

> If you read the SuSE 9.3 license, you will find that copying it and
> giving away those copies to others is allowed, as long as the copies
> are not given away for profit.

This is a frequently repeated misconception -- which I've been obliged
to disprove in several forums before, so I happen to have the material
handy:


First of all, that is not what the licence says, if you heed its _full_
language (cited below). Second, even if it did say that, Novell/SUSE
Linux AG would not have the copyright title enabling it to speak for
(and nullify the non-redistributable licensing of) Adobe, Real Networks,
Opera Software ASA, and Matrica AG.

Disk 1 includes a number of licensing-relevant files in its root
directory. Here are the English-language ones (as they're also
duplicated with German-language ones).

COPYING
COPYRIGHT
LICENSE.TXT

Predictably, COPYING is the text of GPLv2.

COPYRIGHT is, in part, Novell's brief GPL-compliance document, pointing
out that a number of packages' source code is available, and stating
where to get it. It also includes the following warning:

Not all programs on the CDs are free software. Some of them
are shareware, restricted to noncommercial use, or may have
other restrictive conditions.

The package information mentions the respective license and authors.
We cannot, however, ensure the correctness of this information. In
cases of doubt, refer to the original copyright information of the
respective programs.

LICENSE.TXT asserts formation of a contract betwen any recipient and
Novell, Inc., concerning "Software", which is defined as "the software
product identified in the title of this Agreement, media (if any), and
accompanying documentation". The "title" is "SUSE LINUX PROFESSIONAL
9.3".

This text follows:

You may make and use unlimited copies of the Software for
Your distribution and use within Your Organization. You
may make and distribute unlimited copies of the Software
outside Your organization provided that: 1) You receive
no consideration; and, 2) you do not bundle or combine
the Software with another offering (e.g., software, hardware,
or service).

However, the next paragraph severely limits that grant:

The Software is a modular operating system. Most of the components
are open source packages, developed independently, and accompanied
by separate license terms. Your license rights with respect to
individual components accompanied by separate license terms are
defined by those terms; nothing in this Agreement (including, for
example, the "Other License Terms and Restrictions," below) shall
restrict, limit, or otherwise affect any rights or obligations You
may have, or conditions to which You may be subject, under such
license terms.

[...]

The Software may be bundled with other software programs ("Bundled
Programs"). Your license rights with respect to Bundled Programs
accompanied by separate license terms are defined by those terms;
nothing in this Agreement shall restrict, limit, or otherwise affect
any rights or obligations You may have, or conditions to which You
may be subject, under such license terms.

[...]

Non-Novell Products. The Software may include or be bundled with
hardware or other software programs licensed or sold by a licensor
other than Novell.

Interestingly, even the generous-sounding Novell rights grant cited
above is non-transferrable!

Transfer. This Agreement may not be transferred or assigned without
the prior written approval of Novell.

So, you're allowed to "make and distribute unlimited copies of the
Software outside Your organization", but then those recipients don't
enjoy the same rights? Weird.

Interestingly, Novell restricts benchmarking!

Benchmark Testing. This benchmark testing restriction applies to
You if You are a software vendor or if You are performing testing on
the Software at the direction of or on behalf of a software vendor.
You may not, without Novell's prior written consent not to be
unreasonably withheld, publish or disclose to any third party the
results of any benchmark test of the Software.

Anyhow, I think that more than suffices to show that the claim is
incorrect. That is why I refer to 9.3 Professional as a "shrik-wrapped
retail edition", one of several they've had, off and on.

I try to keep track of the editions and their legal status, here:
http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/suse-product-strategy.html



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1548886942-1136348742=:29629-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 20:32:18 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Eu0Jt-0008UC-Fz by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:32:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:32:16 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060104035159.63963.qmail@web31413.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:32:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3328 Lines: 74 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > The computer industry has been going the way of the > automotive industry - do things "good enough", but "cheap". Indeed. > Hardly anyone uses SCSI anymore... People who keep critical data, e.g., database machines with real data that matters, on PATA/SATA are just a little reckless, for well-known reasons. (Or, let's just say that backups and their age would matter a whole lot.) And no, RAIDing them doesn't fix that. The reasons relate to metadata treatment and caching, and you can read about that, here: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BRZ/is_6_23/ai_105884199 Any admin who, say, puts a production Oracle server (with non-throwaway data) on PATA/SATA deserves to be fired. > ...many people think SATA is just as fast.... With enough write-behind cache memory at it, one can fool one's self into thinking that. Where speed for the _dollar_ is concerned, it's actually true, because the SCSI vs. ATA pricing gap has widened even further over the decade or so I've followed this issue. (More about that, below.) But that isn't very _safe_ speed in the protection of current data sense, for reasons indicated. Whether the additional risk of losing a bunch of data back to your last good backup tape is justified is of course a judgement call, and situation-dependent. [...] > It means the CPU is free for other activity > during a large portion of the data transfer. Under IDE, > the CPU is occupied for the entire period of data transfer. Yeah, but don't forget that the CPU goes heavily underused on most Linux deployments, so CPU loading from ATA isn't really the issue that you might think. The exception is during RAID restriping (rebuild) operations, where (e.g.) SATA-based RAID5 arrays tend to have pretty impaired performance and heavy loading until the rebuild completes. That's part of the downside of the money savings. > By the way, SCSI is still expensive. More so all the time. It's apparently largely a market effect, resulting from relative production volumes, and market positioning of SCSI/SAS equipment as "specialty gear", more than previously. Which in turn artificially bumps the prices and widens that gap. But, if you run Oracle, or it's your corporate NFS farm, that's what you buy, because as expensive as the gear is, losing your data to metadata scrambling when a SATA RAID array freezes up is _mondo_ expensive. > So, how much are you willing to pay for a "smoking" system? As stated, the actual intended comparison was _the same_ total cost for the server-balanced system versus the gamer-type one. I'm certainly not sure, in 2006, that the former sort of machine would most reasonably _be_ SCSI-based. If you could live with the aforementioned extra risk of data lossage in the event of array failure, the machine might be based on a Tekram SATA card using an Areca chip (cheap!), or maybe even just the Intel ICH7R or SiI 3112/3114 motherboard-embedded SATA that you get bundled into many commodity systems, these days. And a pair of good HDs doing RAID1, maybe WD Raptors. More at: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html But one thing's for damned sure: It would have immensely better and faster mass storage than a typical gaming box. And less wasted money on overblown CPU and video. From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Jan 03 20:56:33 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Eu0hM-000086-PQ by authid for ; Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:56:32 -0800 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:56:32 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060104045632.GP2501@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060104040632.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060104042542.29754.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 04:56:33 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 521 Lines: 20 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > What program, bundled with SuSE 9.3, disallows non-for-profit copying > and dissemination? RealPlayer Adobe Acrobat Moneyplex (note: is in German language, only) Opera Web Browser ...and others (this being Professional Edition). See: http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2005-April/001080.html > Not allowing customers to benchmark a software product is illegal and > unenforceable. Citation, please? (I'm not doubting your word; I just don't know the caselaw. From jim@well.com Wed Jan 04 08:34:10 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:61753) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuBaA-0004C5-QT for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 08:34:09 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k04GXfQU026838; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:33:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo> References: <009601c610ae$7d678cd0$6301a8c0@Diablo> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 08:35:57 -0800 To: david@sterryit.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1228/Wed Jan 4 02:29:17 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 16:34:11 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3895 Lines: 119 I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple: a site-specific chat facility. I love simple. My first wrinkle was not knowing how gracefully to exit. I just closed the browser session after noticing the record shows other users have timed out--I guess my user will time out, too. My second wrinkle is wondering how a site manager might get notification when users initiate a session: I'm thinking the chat facility would be useful for user support: e.g. i love sitting around doing little dink stuff, and if someone connected to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for questions, if only i know that someone's joined. Third wrinkle: how to set it up so that there's an "admin not available" sign. Fourth wrinkle: find a chatbot that always lives on the site and can provide some conversation, possibly answer questions. On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:41 PM, David Sterry wrote: > You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another > guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that > works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. > You > can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at > http://www.sterryit.com/chatr > > It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated. > > David Sterry, MCSE > Tel 650-773-5942 > Fax 650-523-8634 > David@SterryIT.com > http://www.SterryIT.com > 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200 > Redwood City, CA 94063 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM > To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) > > Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > >> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. >> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this >> world? >> >> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/ > > Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can > hear a > lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on > Rails. > (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well > as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google > Maps). > Of possible related interest: > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html > > > > Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800 > From: Augie Schwer > Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group > To: announce@nblug.org > Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails > > Hello NBLUG'ers, > > This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and > very popular Ruby on Rails development framework. > > Description: > > "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for > programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write > beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration. > > Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web > application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of > the > best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how > it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun." > > Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm > End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm > Location: > O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA > http://nblug.org/genloc > > We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know > would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please > send an e-mail to speakers@nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward > to seeing you all there at the next meeting. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 10:45:39 2006 Received: from web53605.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.38]:38588) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuDcq-0004yU-NB for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:45:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 63903 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2006 18:44:37 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=f6y1mRWs/K+qUQq7SUS1CSlpZs4pid60qDtm2hxjXeZi15pi8VwfrFgVmOknvghDbVm9JSDwVdyErFD+JtUoo8rvxErD0ISiJW8T5z4DNHJlbW9/WNVUhvSzMxp8fCVUZKXW+f9bs0kXEY18bxBNdH48zBywymvF4hVXfmXX4bw= ; Message-ID: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.251.53.131] by web53605.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:44:37 PST Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:44:37 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: jim stockford , david@sterryit.com In-Reply-To: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.38 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-153974935-1136400277=:60212" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:45:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 9686 Lines: 150 --0-153974935-1136400277=:60212 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi David, Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. jim stockford wrote: I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple: a site-specific chat facility. I love simple. My first wrinkle was not knowing how gracefully to exit. I just closed the browser session after noticing the record shows other users have timed out--I guess my user will time out, too. My second wrinkle is wondering how a site manager might get notification when users initiate a session: I'm thinking the chat facility would be useful for user support: e.g. i love sitting around doing little dink stuff, and if someone connected to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for questions, if only i know that someone's joined. Third wrinkle: how to set it up so that there's an "admin not available" sign. Fourth wrinkle: find a chatbot that always lives on the site and can provide some conversation, possibly answer questions. On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:41 PM, David Sterry wrote: > You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another > guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that > works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client. > You > can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at > http://www.sterryit.com/chatr > > It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated. > > David Sterry, MCSE > Tel 650-773-5942 > Fax 650-523-8634 > David@SterryIT.com > http://www.SterryIT.com > 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200 > Redwood City, CA 94063 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com > [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen > Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM > To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) > > Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > >> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com. >> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this >> world? >> >> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/ > > Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can > hear a > lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on > Rails. > (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well > as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google > Maps). > Of possible related interest: > http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html > > > > Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800 > From: Augie Schwer > Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group > To: announce@nblug.org > Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails > > Hello NBLUG'ers, > > This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and > very popular Ruby on Rails development framework. > > Description: > > "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for > programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write > beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration. > > Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web > application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of > the > best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how > it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun." > > Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm > End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm > Location: > O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA > http://nblug.org/genloc > > We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know > would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please > send an e-mail to speakers@nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward > to seeing you all there at the next meeting. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-153974935-1136400277=:60212 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi David,
Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of.

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple:
a site-specific chat facility. I love simple.
My first wrinkle was not knowing how
gracefully to exit. I just closed the browser
session after noticing the record shows
other users have timed out--I guess my
user will time out, too.
My second wrinkle is wondering how a
site manager might get notification when
users initiate a session: I'm thinking the
chat facility would be useful for user
support: e.g. i love sitting around doing
little dink stuff, and if someone connected
to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for
questions, if only i know that someone's
joined.
Third wrinkle: how to set it up so that
there's an "admin not available" sign.
Fourth wrinkle: find a chatbot that always
lives on the site and can provide some
conversation, possibly answer questions.


On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:41 PM, David Sterry wrote:

> You can take a look at a simple AJAX app I created working from another
> guy's code. It's called Chatr and is a chat server written in php that
> works with an AJAX(Javascript with background HTTP requests) client.
> You
> can test it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat or get more info at
> http://www.sterryit.com/chatr
>
> It's in very early stages so any feedback is appreciated.
>
> David Sterry, MCSE
> Tel 650-773-5942
> Fax 650-523-8634
> David@SterryIT.com
> http://www.SterryIT.com
> 805 Veterans Blvd. Suite 200
> Redwood City, CA 94063
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com
> [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moen
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 10:42 AM
> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject)
>
> Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com):
>
>> Here's a new website, from the people who brought you PHPfreaks.com.
>> Any insights into the value of it? Guidance to understanding this
>> world?
>>
>> http://www.ajaxfreaks.com/
>
> Well, if you drive to Sebastopol (near Santa Rosa) in a week, you can
> hear a
> lecture about the hottest server-end AJAX implementation, Ruby on
> Rails.
> (See below.) AJAX can be used to create some great things -- as well
> as some highly useful but also very proprietary things (like Google
> Maps).
> Of possible related interest:
> http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html
>
>
>
> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 08:01:54 -0800
> From: Augie Schwer
> Organization: The North Bay Linux Users' Group
> To: announce@nblug.org
> Subject: [NBLUG/Announce] General Meeting (2006/01/10) : Ruby on Rails
>
> Hello NBLUG'ers,
>
> This month our own Rob Orsini will be talking about the much hyped and
> very popular Ruby on Rails development framework.
>
> Description:
>
> "Ruby on Rails is an open-source Web framework that's optimized for
> programmer happiness and sustainable productivity. It lets you write
> beautiful code by favoring convention over configuration.
>
> Rob will demonstrate the creation of a simple database driven Web
> application using the Rails framework. He'll also talk about some of
> the
> best practices that Rails brings to the Web programming table and how
> it, and projects like it, are making programming more fun."
>
> Start: 2006/01/10 - 7:30pm
> End: 2006/01/10 - 9:00pm
> Location:
> O'Reilly, Sebastopol, CA
> http://nblug.org/genloc
>
> We are always looking for speakers, so if you or anyone you know
> would like to give a presentation to a group of friendly nerds, please
> send an e-mail to speakers@nblug.org . Thank you, and I look forward
> to seeing you all there at the next meeting.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-153974935-1136400277=:60212-- From nbs@sonic.net Wed Jan 04 10:51:45 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:33651) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuDjX-00050T-QG for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:51:44 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k04IpQKD030172 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:51:26 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:DFniU24qJ8inCThapDH+EeY16OZBEpJC@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k04IpQsT012857 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:51:26 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k04IpQvA012856 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:51:26 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:51:26 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060104185126.GB12246@sonic.net> References: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: AJAX Chat app (was re: [sf-lug] (no subject)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 18:51:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 595 Lines: 21 (Subject lines are always useful ;^) ) jim stockford wrote: > > I like it! As your docs say, it's very simple: > a site-specific chat facility. > love sitting around doing little dink stuff, and if someone connected > to the sf-lug site, i'd likely be available for questions, if only i > know that someone's joined. Heh, I just sit around the #lugod and #svlug IRC channels (amongst a dozen or so others). :) (See: http://www.lugod.org/irc for example, and http://www.freenode.net/ , generally) -- -bill! bill@newbreedsoftware.com http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ From jim@well.com Wed Jan 04 11:17:09 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48914) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuE87-0005Gx-Bk for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:17:08 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k04JGxc6000793 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:17:00 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:19:15 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1228/Wed Jan 4 02:29:17 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: sflug extra meeting about hardware X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:17:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 790 Lines: 20 I got time this Monday or Tuesday morning from 9:00 AM (or so) till just before noon. Anybody interested? my machines are in a bedroom very near ocean beach in SF. I can go elsewhere to your machines (whoever and where ever). We got coffee, tea, and water at my house. > Jim- lots of questions about linux support, esp concerning > motherboards at the moment. CPUs as well. Have been to Actnet and > Central Computers > with mixed results. Am currently trying to get anwers via the > internet... > Also would like to talk about monitors, video+sound cards, and > appropriate power supply level. I'll let you choose what a.m. to set > this up, as I can free myself for any Mon.-Thu. morning. 9 or 10 am > would work out great, but open to other times. thanks! > Jeff Gibson From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 04 11:34:51 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuEPK-0005KG-OJ by authid for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:34:50 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:34:50 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Message-ID: <20060104193450.GY2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <2E711238-7D40-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060104184437.63901.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:34:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1230 Lines: 26 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Hi David, > Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding. David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your isFirefox test assumes. Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to "W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent already." (There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See: http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString ) From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 11:52:05 2006 Received: from web53606.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.39]:24867) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuEfL-0005Ne-HT for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:52:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 96464 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jan 2006 19:51:15 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4GBYlyBhHWmZwOJ0bVfHGD3t7kZzKPiE/9iV3txnP795OC9B2ap2uSJLrgW+T1XWrOWIMgEkYEF9SFywov5Z2kd/OBCzj3mNl4RZu458p2jarmYwiSc4sH4rhv5nFYvT5I9ZRCX1MZFo3NJ42sJcJ96ewFlCU5lP6t5ZZ6fCRb8= ; Message-ID: <20060104195115.96462.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.251.53.131] by web53606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:51:15 PST Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:51:15 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060104193450.GY2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.39 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1913643551-1136404275=:95470" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 19:52:06 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4512 Lines: 52 --0-1913643551-1136404275=:95470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a little programming phobic. Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at something that works, and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the beauty of minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that a real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp of the English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has he accomplished either? Rick Moen wrote: Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Hi David, > Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding. David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your isFirefox test assumes. Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to "W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent already." (There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See: http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString ) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1913643551-1136404275=:95470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a little programming phobic. Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at something that works, and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the beauty of minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that a real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp of the English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has he accomplished either?

Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com):

> Hi David,
> Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of.

For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of
Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding.

David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function
getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to
provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible
variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you
can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your
isFirefox test assumes.

Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just
to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to
browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to
"W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent
already."

(There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a
specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See:
http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString )


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1913643551-1136404275=:95470-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 04 14:14:19 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuGtd-0006Lj-UJ by authid for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 14:14:17 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:14:16 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060101023502.GB2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060101211314.59620.qmail@web31406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies] X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:14:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 618 Lines: 18 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100. So, I checked: http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html For a pair of 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMMs, 2 x $68 = $136 (plus tax). (Higher density isn't supported.) The N440BX specs say that "Only ECC (72-bit) DIMMs are specified for use in the N440BX Server system" (either registered or unbuffered, the latter saving a clock cycle). That's about a month worth of lunches at Quiznos. Fond as I am of old unca' Enzo, those sandwiches are a better deal. ;-> From david@sterryit.com Wed Jan 04 15:49:36 2006 Received: from mail24.atl.registeredsite.com ([216.247.37.44]:9383 ident=[U2FsdGVkX1+l9JTXDS/+qDoj9dmkoCvEZA8edVqHPbY=]) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuIMs-0006oe-R8 for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:49:35 -0800 Received: from imta08a2.registeredsite.com (imta08a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.17]) by mail24.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k04NmPa4014399 for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:48:25 -0500 Received: from Diablo ([71.139.58.49]) by imta08a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20060104234824.VPJZ10036.imta08a2.registeredsite.com@Diablo> for ; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:48:24 -0500 From: "David Sterry" To: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:48:24 -0800 Message-ID: <001501c61189$5a3fa4f0$6301a8c0@Diablo> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 In-Reply-To: <20060104195115.96462.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN at imta08a2.registeredsite.com from [71.139.58.49] using ID david@sterryit.com at Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:48:24 -0500 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of david@sterryit.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 216.247.37.44 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: david@sterryit.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: RE: [sf-lug] (no subject) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01C61146.4C1C64F0" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: david@sterryit.com List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:49:37 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 17160 Lines: 502 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C61146.4C1C64F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks guys for your comments. Rick's comments on getElement(id): I've not done much in the way of modifying the javascript client since I found it. I set it to throttle back requests if the user is idling for 2 mins or more, but haven't looked at cross-browser compatibility. That's a good catch though I'll try to address that next release. Jim's comment on graceful exit: I want to look at how blogger asks you if you're sure you want to leave when you're editing a new blog post because it's that kind of thing that could help me get real-time exit messages from the client. For now, timing out is how it's done. Jim's comment on notifying admins when people come in the room: This could be a simple as adding a little email sending code to chat.php when a user first enters. Otherwise, the file status.php is meant to be php or shtml included in a page. It is meant to be included on the homepage of a site, shows how many people are in the room and is linked to the login page. Jim's comment on admin not available sign: This set of scripts is sorely lacking admin functionality short of directly editing the txt files that store the chat text, pings and user data. I've not seen too much abuse so I've not worked on that. The original guy did some of that in asp.net because he was dugg and had some nare-do-wells get in there are start messing with the server. There probably should be a way to designate an admin username and not allow anybody to use that name unless they know a password. Then if admin's not logged in, an admin not available message could be added to the userlist. Jim's comment on the chatbot: Personally I want a chatbot gameshow host that directs 8 users to play a game of chat survivor against one another. 8 users, 3 chatrooms, 1 hour..1 survivor! -Dave -----Original Message----- From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of vincent polite Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 11:51 AM To: Rick Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no subject) Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a little programming phobic. Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at something that works, and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the beauty of minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that a real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp of the English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has he accomplished either? Rick Moen wrote: Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Hi David, > Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming from it, you'd get apart of. For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice demo of Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding. David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if function getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and you can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", as your isFirefox test assumes. Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, just to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend to browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent set to "W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over user-agent already." (There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as a specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See: http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString ) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C61146.4C1C64F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks guys for your comments. =

 

Rick’s comments on getElement(id): I’ve not done much in the way of modifying the javascript client since I found it. I set it to throttle back requests if the user = is idling for 2 mins or more, but haven’t = looked at cross-browser compatibility. That’s a good catch though = I’ll try to address that next release.

 

Jim’s comment on graceful = exit: I want to look at how blogger asks you if = you’re sure you want to leave when you’re editing a new blog post because it’s that kind of thing that could help me get = real-time exit messages from the client. For now, timing out is how it’s = done.

 

Jim’s comment on notifying = admins when people come in the room: This could be = a simple as adding a little email sending code to chat.php when a user first enters. Otherwise, the file status.php is meant to be php or shtml included in a = page. It is meant to be included on the homepage of a site, shows how many people = are in the room and is linked to the login page.

 

Jim’s comment on admin not = available sign: This set of scripts is sorely lacking admin functionality short of directly editing the txt files that store the chat text, pings and user = data. I’ve not seen too much abuse so I’ve not worked on that. The original = guy did some of that in asp.net because he was dugg = and had some nare-do-wells get in there are start messing = with the server. There probably should be a way to designate an admin username = and not allow anybody to use that name unless they know a password. Then if = admin’s not logged in, an admin not = available message could be added to the userlist.

 

Jim’s comment on the chatbot: Personally I want a chatbot gameshow host that directs 8 users to play a = game of chat survivor against one another. 8 users, 3 chatrooms, 1 hour….1 survivor!

 

-Dave

-----Original = Message-----
From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] = On Behalf Of vincent polite
Sent: = Wednesday, January 04, = 2006 11:51 AM
To: Rick Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] (no = subject)

 

Thanks for the notes Rick. I've always been a = little programming phobic. Hate reading through doc's. It is nice to look at = something that works, and then begin to see how it works. You begin to see the = beauty of minimalist, streamlined, hand, coding. Books are always so daunting. A = lot of online stuff seems to not work, or a waste of verbiage, "Is that a = real word, he thinks, while trying to sound like he has a solid grasp of the = English language, and feel superior, all at the same time." Has he = accomplished either?

Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote: =

Quoting vincent polite = (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com):

> Hi David,
> Thanks for sharing. I actually might be able to use it on this = project I'm working on. Of course, you would be acknowledged, and any money coming = from it, you'd get apart of.

For those who haven't tried & downloaded David's app, it's a nice = demo of
Javascript / XML/ XMLHttpRequest coding.

David, I notice that you don't have a default handler for if = function
getElement( id ) can't decide what browser this is. You might want to =
provide one: There are an increasing number of Mozilla-compatible
variants and others (e.g. Opera) that are DOM/Javascript capable, and = you
can't be sure their App Name string will always be "Netscape", = as your
isFirefox test assumes.

Not that you should make special provisions for _my_ browser, but, = just
to discourage webmasters from making vendor-dependent sites, I tend = to
browse with App Name set to "Doesn't Matter" and User Agent = set to
"W3C standards are important. Stop f---ing obsessing over = user-agent
already."

(There are a bunch of us who browse with User Agent set that way, as = a
specific statement to webmasters and site managers. See:
http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UserAgentString )


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

 



Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/

------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C61146.4C1C64F0-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 20:39:11 2006 Received: from web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.127]:39323) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuMtr-0008Nd-GI for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:39:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 61875 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2006 04:38:47 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=E0prBMWxEpYeGumnoFz0inJB0RFLANeXbCOeyBvn35q38h4/y9IcXMWj4qPCfG1BU35+imkZjKsQT3FuN0pg63/aFMjRnmDOhrqXSyosV0dyFFvcodcvWnoQoRbj7n+zvC8CPmfEiDaHPNcAnSyFBTM7SH7d3EuLZM7A9x1g/34= ; Message-ID: <20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.126.99] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:38:47 PST Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:38:47 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.127 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-671082473-1136435927=:60777" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 04:39:12 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1555 Lines: 28 --0-671082473-1136435927=:60777 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But one thing's for damned sure: It would have immensely better and faster mass storage than a typical gaming box. And less wasted money on overblown CPU and video. CPU and video is precisely what the gamers need, ergo they want it. They understand the concept of balanced systems. They build systems to optimize game playing, nothing wrong with that. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-671082473-1136435927=:60777 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

But one thing's for damned sure: It would have immensely better and
faster mass storage than a typical gaming box. And less wasted money on overblown CPU and video.

CPU and video is precisely what the gamers need, ergo they want it. They understand the concept of balanced systems. They build systems to optimize game playing, nothing wrong with that.

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-671082473-1136435927=:60777-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 04 20:47:34 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuN2D-0008Q1-VZ by authid ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:47:33 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:47:33 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: Adrien Lamothe Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060105044733.GX7847@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060104043216.GW2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060105043847.61873.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 04:47:35 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 490 Lines: 12 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > CPU and video is precisely what the gamers need, ergo they want it. > They understand the concept of balanced systems. They build systems to > optimize game playing, nothing wrong with that. Indeed, not at all. My remarks about "wastage" didn't concern gamers' usage model, but rather, in contrast, the general run of non-gamer scenarios -- for which a very different balance permits best use of one's dollar. Apologies if I was unclear. From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Jan 04 20:48:54 2006 Received: from web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.121]:43403) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuN37-0008Qu-Ad for ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:48:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 56288 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2006 04:48:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=XbMapSn4ayPrJv372JmHmGHa4oiRGsSeyXl0QS05+s2KeYjNgQYmudxT9vAUjXRdVXK8FKGP7WFGOwtyPkahfgc6IP2110wuGuRW8xgwd8rkVeLS+OyL3PTXCIfIu2q2l5gYKNzqLgtnNzkUUYHInCvF+ZXACFgEpUxN3yVqcEw= ; Message-ID: <20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.126.99] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:48:21 PST Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 20:48:21 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.121 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1407639363-1136436501=:56048" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 04:48:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2776 Lines: 48 --0-1407639363-1136436501=:56048 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why do you need a pair? Wouldn't one DIMM suffice, added to the current configuration? Those systems don't require matched pairs of RAM. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100. So, I checked: http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html For a pair of 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMMs, 2 x $68 = $136 (plus tax). (Higher density isn't supported.) The N440BX specs say that "Only ECC (72-bit) DIMMs are specified for use in the N440BX Server system" (either registered or unbuffered, the latter saving a clock cycle). That's about a month worth of lunches at Quiznos. Fond as I am of old unca' Enzo, those sandwiches are a better deal. ;-> _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1407639363-1136436501=:56048 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Why do you need a pair? Wouldn't one DIMM suffice, added to the current configuration? Those systems don't require matched pairs of RAM.



Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> RAM is really inexpensive these days, even the older PC-100.

So, I checked:
http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html

For a pair of 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMMs, 2 x $68 = $136 (plus tax).
(Higher density isn't supported.)

The N440BX specs say that "Only ECC (72-bit) DIMMs are specified for use
in the N440BX Server system" (either registered or unbuffered, the
latter saving a clock cycle).

That's about a month worth of lunches at Quiznos. Fond as I am of
old unca' Enzo, those sandwiches are a better deal. ;->


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1407639363-1136436501=:56048-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 04 21:20:36 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuNYB-0000G5-H9 by authid ; Wed, 04 Jan 2006 21:20:35 -0800 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:20:34 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: Adrien Lamothe Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Thanks for the memory[ies] Message-ID: <20060105052034.GZ7847@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060104221416.GZ2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060105044821.56286.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 05:20:36 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 898 Lines: 30 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Why do you need a pair? Who said I "needed a pair"? > Those systems don't require matched pairs of RAM. Who claimed they "require matched pairs"? > Wouldn't one DIMM suffice, added to the current configuration? "Suffice" if I just wanted to add 256MB or less, sure. But that seems hardly worth the trouble. Since you asked, though: http://www.satech.com/168-pin-3-3v-pc-memory-dimms-pc100-sdram-168-pin-3-3v-memory-dimms.html has: 64MB PC-100 ECC DIMM, $17 128MB PC-100 ECC DIMM $37 256MB PC-100 ECC DIMM $68 (as mentioned earlier) As mentioned in my earlier post, higher density (than 256MB per stick) isn't supported, which is why the only way you can add 512MB is with some combination of smaller sticks. (Thus the pair cited in my earlier example.) Any way you slice it, it's a lot of sandwiches versus very little system benefit. From jim@well.com Thu Jan 05 08:46:16 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41903) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuYEO-0004KU-R7 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:46:15 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k05GHA24019491 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:17:11 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <0A693854-7E07-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 08:19:26 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.87.1/1230/Thu Jan 5 03:49:56 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-11--743023338 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 16:46:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 19528 Lines: 693 --Apple-Mail-11--743023338 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The forwarded email below includes a list of significant linux developments expected in 2006, including notably (to me): * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5 * PalmSource Linux offering * Open Source Development Lab's Project ...Portland (targets the desktop) * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP). Begin forwarded message: > From: "NW on Linux" > Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Linux happenings in '06 > Reply-To: Linux Help > > NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX > 01/02/06 > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > Dear jim@well.com, > > In this issue: > > * Plan your year around Linux > * Links related to Linux > * Featured reader resource > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961 > _______________________________________________________________ > NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS > > NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network > projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are > examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by > industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology, > and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here > to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue: > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036 > _______________________________________________________________ > > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > By Phil Hochmuth > > As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with > the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective > disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward > to this year. > > Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006. > > February > > Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an > upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code > will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more > to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security > package and a LDAP directory administration tool. > > March > > Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES) > released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt > Lake City. Improved system management features, and server > virtualization management. > > April > > LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in > Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show, > running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well - > the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. > > May/June > > Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the > end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give > Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options > as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing. > > June/July > > The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first > release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the > summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application > criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from > Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE, > Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others. > > August > > LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone > Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from > Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise > Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating > system kernels. > > September/October > > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the > beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen > virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless > Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop > client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server. > > November/December > > IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data > Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents > created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use > a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to > be viewed by users who do not have the originating software. > > The top 10 most-read stories of 2005 > > 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac > > 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes > > 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test > > 4. This net screams > > 5. Networking skills are still hot > > 6. The 2005 salary survey > > 7. Cracking the wireless security code > > 8. 10 ways to stop spyware > > 9. VoIP analysis tools tested > > 10. Shattered Mac illusions > > > _______________________________________________________________ > To contact: Phil Hochmuth > > Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former > systems integrator. You can reach him at > . > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960 > _______________________________________________________________ > ARCHIVE LINKS > > Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, > updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html > Archive of the Linux newsletter: > http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html > _______________________________________________________________ > WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world. > > Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed > across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN > performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their > own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster > :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less > than two months. > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724 > _______________________________________________________________ > FEATURED READER RESOURCE > > WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK? > > You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors' > home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices & > security solutions and stay current on home network fun - > streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting > Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge > webzine today: > > > _______________________________________________________________ > May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? > You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered > at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by > receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply > today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2 > > International subscribers click here: > http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html > _______________________________________________________________ > SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES > > To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail > newsletters, go to: > > > To change your e-mail address, go to: > > > Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to > this message. > > This message was sent to: jim@well.com > Please use this address when modifying your subscription. > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, > at: > > Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 > Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 > > For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate > Publisher Online, at: > > Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006 > --Apple-Mail-11--743023338 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII The forwarded email below includes a list of significant linux developments expected in 2006, including notably (to me): * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5 * PalmSource Linux offering * Open Source Development Lab's Project ...Portland (targets the desktop) * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP). Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "NW on Linux" < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Linux happenings in '06 0000,0000,0000Reply-To: Linux Help < NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX 01/02/06 Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 Dear jim@well.com, In this issue: * Plan your year around Linux * Links related to Linux * Featured reader resource _______________________________________________________________ This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. Download this Network World Special Report today! http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961 _______________________________________________________________ NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology, and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue: http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036 _______________________________________________________________ Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 By Phil Hochmuth As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward to this year. Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006. February Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security package and a LDAP directory administration tool. March Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES) released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt Lake City. Improved system management features, and server virtualization management. April LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show, running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well - the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. May/June Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing. June/July The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE, Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others. August LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating system kernels. September/October Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server. November/December IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to be viewed by users who do not have the originating software. The top 10 most-read stories of 2005 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac < 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes < 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test < 4. This net screams < 5. Networking skills are still hot < 6. The 2005 salary survey < 7. Cracking the wireless security code < 8. 10 ways to stop spyware < 9. VoIP analysis tools tested < 10. Shattered Mac illusions < _______________________________________________________________ To contact: Phil Hochmuth Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former systems integrator. You can reach him at <. _______________________________________________________________ This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. Download this Network World Special Report today! http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960 _______________________________________________________________ ARCHIVE LINKS Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html Archive of the Linux newsletter: http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html _______________________________________________________________ WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world. Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less than two months. http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724 _______________________________________________________________ FEATURED READER RESOURCE WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK? You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors' home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices & security solutions and stay current on home network fun - streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge webzine today: < _______________________________________________________________ May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2 International subscribers click here: http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html _______________________________________________________________ SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail newsletters, go to: < To change your e-mail address, go to: < Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to this message. This message was sent to: jim@well.com Please use this address when modifying your subscription. _______________________________________________________________ Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, at: < Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate Publisher Online, at: < Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006 --Apple-Mail-11--743023338-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 11:12:50 2006 Received: from web53606.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.39]:38347) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuaXM-0005KK-9S for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:12:49 -0800 Received: (qmail 25936 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2006 19:12:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=MfO8ZkCoLp4/pw7ltIVn1wGY5Th7ejEWQwx/wAVKEjle57XxiG1XcyS1na/UQC20DSImxu++dH7dds7cgD2WPNXmkesV0XjwK3gVZDMbDQXwwpzEp8/Fgb812+GynhMwQF3ChZ98LlD+S2W4mSqLiy94MLol6XbCU9WX0ftJUQk= ; Message-ID: <20060105191227.25933.qmail@web53606.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.251.53.131] by web53606.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:12:27 PST Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:12:27 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , mbiggi@cooley.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.39 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1848273249-1136488347=:23747" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:12:51 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1356 Lines: 21 --0-1848273249-1136488347=:23747 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new. Thanks Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1848273249-1136488347=:23747 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new.
 
Thanks


Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1848273249-1136488347=:23747-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Jan 05 11:17:30 2006 Received: from web53604.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.37]:22775) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Euabv-0005LV-98 for ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:17:29 -0800 Received: (qmail 64854 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2006 19:17:11 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=pQHwJd4dc4fJhP+7s8IVOzCNtSMYsbi/MeTTJe6IT4ZHaOkZ5HSLr42ejbM1NOHn4nXJr/5SyMwQFwv3i8xFXhx7gmUOau3S0RK2dF9NpilAHTLI0kOm+QMDyUxsvmLK47gaWbcathV768hVTAdwLxtDGgeUXBbtTKz0B7PdWvA= ; Message-ID: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.251.53.131] by web53604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:17:11 PST Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , mbiggi@cooley.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.37 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1155897737-1136488631=:61623" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:17:31 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1635 Lines: 22 --0-1155897737-1136488631=:61623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi@cooley.com. My faux pax...Or whatever you are supposed to say... I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new. Thanks Vincent Polite 415-386-5629 http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1155897737-1136488631=:61623 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi@cooley.com. My faux pax...Or whatever you are supposed to say...
I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make since? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something new.
 
Thanks


Vincent Polite
415-386-5629
http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ --0-1155897737-1136488631=:61623-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Jan 05 11:56:44 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EubE3-0005ST-Hp by authid ; Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:56:43 -0800 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 11:56:42 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2 Message-ID: <20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: mbiggi@cooley.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:56:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2514 Lines: 53 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi@cooley.com. My faux > pas...Or whatever you are supposed to say... Not a problem, but the best way for this to proceed would be for Mark to join this mailing list. Otherwise, either everyone has to manually Cc him on all postings, or someone has to forward the traffic -- and any postings Mark tries to send to the mailing list will get held for moderator approval by Jim (as being from a non-subscribed address). > I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist > is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't > pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH > 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the > a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make > sense? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something > new. Clear as mud to _me_, at least, I'm afraid. I know DNS, and I know Red Hattish systems (albeit I'm a little rusty), and I know most varieties of Linux RAID (there are many, some hardware based, some software done entirely with the Linux "md" = multi device driver, and some BIOS-assisted "fakeraid") -- but I have no idea what the "a" file is, in this context. By the way, I would heavily discourage RH9, and lightly discourage Fedora Core 3, for this purpose. There are much better choices of the RH-ish persuasion, if one leans that way: o RH9: Support/updates ceased on 2004-04-30. In theory, you can still get some updates from the Fedora Legacy project, but their coverage has been spotty and unreliable. o FC3: Released 2004-11-08, and scheduled to be transferred to Fedora Legacy project in mid-January. (See comments above.) Also, FC3 had significant SELinux problems that were fixed only with the FC4 redesign. Mark could certainly use FC4 -- which is functional if a bit aggressive in pushing technological progress (beta-ish), bearing in mind that it's a test platform and has a rapid end-of-life schedule. (FC5 is planned to out in March.) I would urge Mark to also consider CentOS, which is Red Hat Enterprise Linux in all but name, community-recompiled and supported. There are both RHEL 3.0 and 4.0 variants. http://www.centos.org/ -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From jim@well.com Fri Jan 06 02:09:20 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:54120) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EuoWw-000239-Dk ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 02:09:19 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k06A8p8B004837; Fri, 6 Jan 2006 02:08:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060105191711.64852.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> <20060105195642.GF2513@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 02:11:05 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Seeking a convert...part 2 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, mbiggi@cooley.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:09:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3496 Lines: 82 I'd like to second Rick's suggestion re CentOS. If Mark is getting messages asking for floppy disks, he's using old software, either RH9 or something he's downloaded. There's no relation between floppy and RAID at install time, other than maybe some RAID tools are in some RPM that's expected from a floppy drive. CentOS is a few bucks from either Spidertools or CheapBytes and is robust. Fedora is cutting edge and without guarantees; a good choice to get a look at possibilities in the next RHEL release (RHEL 5 is coming in summer 2006), but not my choice for a server machine. With CentOS 4 (did I mention CentOS?) you get easy-to-use RAID and LVM tools: "it just works". On Jan 5, 2006, at 11:56 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > >> I gave the wrong address for Mark. It is mbiggi@cooley.com. My faux >> pas...Or whatever you are supposed to say... > > Not a problem, but the best way for this to proceed would be for Mark > to > join this mailing list. Otherwise, either everyone has to manually Cc > him on all postings, or someone has to forward the traffic -- and any > postings Mark tries to send to the mailing list will get held for > moderator approval by Jim (as being from a non-subscribed address). > >> I'm working at this law firm, temp job. And the Senior IT Specialist >> is looking to convert some of the server duties to Linux. I don't >> pretend to understand all the details. When he tries to install RH >> 9, Fedora 3, on the DNS server, he gets a message asking install the >> a file from a floppy. Mark Biggi is the victim of this inquiry. Make >> sense? It has something to do with the RAID. Love to learn something >> new. > > Clear as mud to _me_, at least, I'm afraid. > > I know DNS, and I know Red Hattish systems (albeit I'm a little rusty), > and I know most varieties of Linux RAID (there are many, some hardware > based, some software done entirely with the Linux "md" = multi device > driver, and some BIOS-assisted "fakeraid") -- but I have no idea what > the "a" file is, in this context. > > By the way, I would heavily discourage RH9, and lightly discourage > Fedora Core 3, for this purpose. There are much better choices of the > RH-ish persuasion, if one leans that way: > > o RH9: Support/updates ceased on 2004-04-30. In theory, you can > still > get some updates from the Fedora Legacy project, but their > coverage has been spotty and unreliable. > o FC3: Released 2004-11-08, and scheduled to be transferred to > Fedora Legacy project in mid-January. (See comments above.) > Also, FC3 had significant SELinux problems that were fixed > only with the FC4 redesign. > > Mark could certainly use FC4 -- which is functional if a bit aggressive > in pushing technological progress (beta-ish), bearing in mind that it's > a test platform and has a rapid end-of-life schedule. (FC5 is planned > to out in March.) > > I would urge Mark to also consider CentOS, which is Red Hat Enterprise > Linux in all but name, community-recompiled and supported. There are > both RHEL 3.0 and 4.0 variants. http://www.centos.org/ > > -- > Cheers, > Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." > rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From alamozzz@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 18:50:59 2006 Received: from web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.122]:35220) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ev4AA-0001HA-Un for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:50:58 -0800 Received: (qmail 67241 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 02:50:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=GMQ4UJxqfpd5ScD/g9OyjAO5btv7PdkLk/kPlQqnEtDx0C8dFzdGLLjj2BJ+Y6Ihime5Bi3SIr9bvsbcVJ53aHNwvJRgXj3w1qJBSaolnDpoSS4I7tvY8C3SyfXwAiI8+DW/JtsI7uQpDqELacTmFPmcNXRS1imNF4AajjIO/Lk= ; Message-ID: <20060107025029.67239.qmail@web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31410.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:50:29 PST Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.122 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Fwd: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1986368777-1136602229=:65538" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 02:50:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4665 Lines: 63 --0-1986368777-1136602229=:65538 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ah, didn't mean to take the thread private, was very tired that night. Rick Moen wrote: Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:28:55 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: Adrien Lamothe Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > I'd like to see Real Networks, Adobe, et. al, actually try to sue > someone for giving away programs that are freely available to anyone > over the internet; that would be an entertaining case. You can set up a test case, easily enough: Just post a public copy of Acrobat Reader on a Web site of yours, and then drop Adobe's lawyers a note furnishing the URL, saying you'll be operating that as an unauthorised download site, and daring them to try to stop you. They of course _can_: Among the rights reserved by default to copyright owners is the right of distribution, and thus the right to offer the work only from authorised sites, or not at all. That's why _granting_ the public the right of redistribution requires a specific licence grant to that effect, and why there is no such right without such a grant. > Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit > brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product. Huh? I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a product EULA is illegal and unenforceable. I therefore would like to see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't find any. You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was ask you to cite that reason. (I note that you dropped offlist into private e-mail. Therefore, to avoid violating your privacy, I am continuing in the same medium, even though I actually strongly prefer for public threads to remain in public, unless someone has mentioned a compelling reason for privacy.) --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1986368777-1136602229=:65538 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Ah, didn't mean to take the thread private, was very tired that night.



Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:28:55 -0800
From: Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com>
To: Adrien Lamothe <alamozzz@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.

Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> I'd like to see Real Networks, Adobe, et. al, actually try to sue
> someone for giving away programs that are freely available to anyone
> over the internet; that would be an entertaining case.

You can set up a test case, easily enough: Just post a public copy of
Acrobat Reader on a Web site of yours, and then drop Adobe's lawyers a
note furnishing the URL, saying you'll be operating that as an
unauthorised download site, and daring them to try to stop you.

They of course _can_: Among the rights reserved by default to copyright
owners is the right of distribution, and thus the right to offer the
work only from authorised sites, or not at all. That's why _granting_
the public the right of redistribution requires a specific licence grant
to that effect, and why there is no such right without such a grant.

> Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit
> brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product.

Huh?

I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a
product EULA is illegal and unenforceable. I therefore would like to
see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't
find any. You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was
ask you to cite that reason.


(I note that you dropped offlist into private e-mail. Therefore, to
avoid violating your privacy, I am continuing in the same medium, even
though I actually strongly prefer for public threads to remain in
public, unless someone has mentioned a compelling reason for privacy.)


Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --0-1986368777-1136602229=:65538-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Fri Jan 06 19:41:06 2006 Received: from web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.113]:38002) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ev4wf-0001eN-TC for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:41:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 64293 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2006 03:40:38 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=X6zhS3bynQZL5VCJ98wEEzuQdVxGw3jGDmbIZ9YemwcG9TwItGtIsIr/jTGp0Zb9zh+WlIersapxLeXTh8sRkU2BChTb+wqOLF1iHhPdgFm1PlNdlKfYhihZ/AFmze/XbclGaGAwyfNcT+ZnXZwLipe/eBNGTNTkgBnxpz4La8M= ; Message-ID: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:40:38 PST Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:40:38 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.113 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-554351602-1136605238=:63894" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 03:41:07 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4938 Lines: 39 --0-554351602-1136605238=:63894 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >> Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit >> brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product. >Huh? >I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a >product EULA is illegal and unenforceable. I therefore would like to >see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't >find any. You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was >ask you to cite that reason. You won't find any statute that says "it is O.K. to benchmark software you have purchased." Let's say I buy some milk at a grocery store, and they make me sign an agreement to the effect that I will not tell other people my opinion of the milk, and also not to send a sample of that milk to a laboratory for analysis. I won't find any statutes that tell me it is O.K. to critique the milk or have it analyzed, because I'm free to do just about anything with the milk, I own it. If the grocery store wants to try enforcing that agreement, good luck to them, they'll get laughed out of court. The Novell situation is identical. Automotive magazines borrow or buy cars so they can test and benchmark them. Reviewers benchmark computer hardware and software almost daily, and publish the results. Benchmarking a product you own is legal, period. While on the subject, this is a good time to mention those mysterious gremlins known as "market forces." By affixing such an onerous condition to their license agreement, Novell will cause users to really question what is going on, and leave a negative impression. Negative impressions can contribute to people taking their business elsewhere. Closely related is the concept of "good will," something most business people don't understand these days (I've been told there was a time when "good will" was valued by businesses, but that may be a myth, related to the myth of the "good old days.") In the open-source software business, I think "good will" is a very important concept, and those who ignore it tend to get left behind (think XFree86, etc.) - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-554351602-1136605238=:63894 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 >> Actually, you are the one who needs to cite an example of a suit
>> brought against a consumer for benchmarking a product.

>Huh?

>I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a
>product EULA is illegal and unenforceable.  I therefore would like to
>see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't
>find any.  You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was
>ask you to cite that reason.

You won't find any statute that says "it is O.K. to benchmark software you have purchased." Let's say I buy some milk at a grocery store, and they make me sign an agreement to the effect that I will not tell other people my opinion of the milk, and also not to send a sample of that milk to a laboratory for analysis. I won't find any statutes that tell me it is O.K. to critique the milk or have it analyzed, because I'm free to do just about anything with the milk, I own it. If the grocery store wants to try enforcing that agreement, good luck to them, they'll get laughed out of court. The Novell situation is identical. Automotive magazines borrow or buy cars so they can test and benchmark them. Reviewers benchmark computer hardware and software almost daily, and publish the results. Benchmarking a product you own is legal, period.

While on the subject, this is a good time to mention those mysterious gremlins known as "market forces." By affixing such an onerous condition to their license agreement, Novell will cause users to really question what is going on, and leave a negative impression. Negative impressions can contribute to people taking their business elsewhere. Closely related is the concept of "good will," something most business people don't understand these days (I've been told there was a time when "good will" was valued by businesses, but that may be a myth, related to the myth of the "good old days.") In the open-source software business, I think "good will" is a very important concept, and those who ignore it tend to get left behind (think XFree86, etc.)

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-554351602-1136605238=:63894-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Jan 06 22:18:50 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ev7Pe-0002Wu-0L by authid for ; Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:18:50 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 22:18:49 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060107034038.64291.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 06:18:51 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4251 Lines: 86 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >I believe you were saying that disallowing software benchmarking via a > >product EULA is illegal and unenforceable. I therefore would like to > >see a cite of the controlling law (statute or caselaw), since I can't > >find any. You must have had some reason to think that; all I did was > >ask you to cite that reason. > > You won't find any statute that says "it is O.K. to benchmark software > you have purchased." I was hoping you were aware of a civil judgement (in a lawsuit) where a company had attempted to enforce such a provision, asserting the tort of contract breach, but then lost, through some judge declaring them "illegal and unenforceable". > Let's say I buy some milk at a grocery store, and they make me sign an > agreement to the effect that I will not tell other people my opinion of > the milk, and also not to send a sample of that milk to a laboratory for > analysis. I won't find any statutes that tell me it is O.K. to critique > the milk or have it analyzed, because I'm free to do just about anything > with the milk, I own it. Much as you indeed own that milk, there are hundred of years of precedent for attaching strings to contracts: As long as the subject matter of the contract is not itself illegal[1], the courts have allowed competent adults[2] to sign away almost all rights, if they're reckless and don't carefully watch what they agree to.[3] > If the grocery store wants to try enforcing that agreement, good luck > to them, they'll get laughed out of court. The Novell situation is > identical. What I know of business law, this claim is mistaken. People sign contract that limit the scope of their right to speak, all the time, e.g., contracts pursuant to employment. Even my contracting work entails implied covenants of good-faith and fair dealing, according to which I must act to protect my clients' interests. I could get sued for torts if I were to violate those covenants by blabbing about them in public. Therefore (although I'm certainly not a lawyer, and therefore cannot and do not advise people on their particular legal situations), I always advise people in _general terms_ to pay really close attention to what contracts they agree to, and assume they're to be taken seriously except where you know they're toothless for some external reason. > Automotive magazines borrow or buy cars so they can test and benchmark > them. Reviewers benchmark computer hardware and software almost daily, > and publish the results. Benchmarking a product you own is legal, > period. Again, I know of no reason to think this is true, and plenty to think otherwise. It it _were_ true, I expect I'd have found caselaw to that effect, and I found none. > While on the subject, this is a good time to mention those mysterious > gremlins known as "market forces." By affixing such an onerous > condition to their license agreement, Novell will cause users to > really question what is going on, and leave a negative impression. I certainly hope so. Licence terms purporting to ban benchmarking are evil, and really should not be put up with. [1] For example, no contract terms you sign, in an otherwise valid contract, can be forced against you to sell yourself into slavery, or to perform any other illegal act. For example, in California contracts that purport to bar you from your own trade or profession (non-competes) are completely unenforceable by statute, as are proprietary invention agreements to the extent of whatever you create with your own resources on your own time. Although very common, those agreements are deceptive. And yes, I _can_ give you citations of the relevant code sections. [2] Popular misconceptions to the contrary notwithstanding, minors _are_ allowed to enter into contracts, but can elect to unilaterally void any such contracts, if they wish, immediately upon reaching the age of majority. One exception is contracts concerning real estate, which are enforceable even against minors. [3] There are a few safeguards in particular special areas, such as the statutory "cooling off period" following purchase of an automobile, during which you can rescind your acceptance of the sales offer. From jim@well.com Sat Jan 07 11:31:57 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:55673) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EvJmn-0006mu-Sz for ; Sat, 07 Jan 2006 11:31:57 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k07H11th018287 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:01:01 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <7EEB8CC3-7F9F-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 09:03:16 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-18--567593203 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: January 12, 7:30pm (Google) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 19:31:58 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4760 Lines: 177 --Apple-Mail-18--567593203 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Interested in the Python programming language? This coming meeting, Thursday 1/12 7:30 PM at Google's campus, is for newbies. Marilyn Davis is an experienced instructor presenting a summary of Python's benefits. After her presentation there'll be a newbie question and answer period. I'm going. If you want a ride to and from SF, let me know (I'm willing, within SF city, to drop you off at your home). jim Begin forwarded message: > From: Aahz > Date: January 7, 2006 7:54:08 AM PST > To: baypiggies@python.org > Cc: Python-List , python-announce@python.org > Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: January 12, 7:30pm (Google) > > The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, January 12 at 7:30pm at > Google, room Tunis. Meet in the lobby of building 43. > > This will be a combo meeting: > > * First Marilyn Davis will practice her "Why Python?" talk -- she's > looking for feedback and suggestions on improving it. > > * We'll fill the rest of the time with a "Newbies Night"; this is your > opportunity to get realtime responses to questions about Python > > > BayPIGgies meetings alternate between IronPort (San Bruno, California) > and Google (Mountain View, California). For more information and > directions, see http://baypiggies.net/ > > > Before the meeting, we sometimes meet at 6pm for dinner. Discussion of > dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list. > > Advance notice: We need speakers for February and later; the February > meeting is currently reserved for PyCon speakers wanting practice, and > the March meeting will probably be a PyCon wrap-up. Please e-mail > baypiggies@python.org if you want to suggest an agenda (or volunteer to > give a presentation). > -- > Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com) <*> > http://www.pythoncraft.com/ > > "19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about > programming, > is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > --Apple-Mail-18--567593203 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Interested in the Python programming language? This coming meeting, Thursday 1/12 7:30 PM at Google's campus, is for newbies. Marilyn Davis is an experienced instructor presenting a summary of Python's benefits. After her presentation there'll be a newbie question and answer period. I'm going. If you want a ride to and from SF, let me know (I'm willing, within SF city, to drop you off at your home). jim Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Aahz < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 7, 2006 7:54:08 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: baypiggies@python.org 0000,0000,0000Cc: Python-List <, python-announce@python.org 0000,0000,0000Subject: [Baypiggies] BayPIGgies: January 12, 7:30pm (Google) The next meeting of BayPIGgies will be Thurs, January 12 at 7:30pm at Google, room Tunis. Meet in the lobby of building 43. This will be a combo meeting: * First Marilyn Davis will practice her "Why Python?" talk -- she's looking for feedback and suggestions on improving it. * We'll fill the rest of the time with a "Newbies Night"; this is your opportunity to get realtime responses to questions about Python BayPIGgies meetings alternate between IronPort (San Bruno, California) and Google (Mountain View, California). For more information and directions, see http://baypiggies.net/ Before the meeting, we sometimes meet at 6pm for dinner. Discussion of dinner plans is handled on the BayPIGgies mailing list. Advance notice: We need speakers for February and later; the February meeting is currently reserved for PyCon speakers wanting practice, and the March meeting will probably be a PyCon wrap-up. Please e-mail baypiggies@python.org if you want to suggest an agenda (or volunteer to give a presentation). -- Aahz (aahz@pythoncraft.com) <<*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "19. A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing." --Alan Perlis _______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list Baypiggies@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies --Apple-Mail-18--567593203-- From jim@well.com Mon Jan 09 08:14:42 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:51592) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EvzfJ-0004UL-Ju for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 08:14:41 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k09GEVL4015768 for ; Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:14:32 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <56070D7A-812B-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:16:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.87.1, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meeting tonight at javacat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 16:14:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 109 Lines: 8 Monday, January 16, at the Javacat on Geary at 20th, from 6:00 till 8:00 PM (or so). hope to see you, jim From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Jan 09 21:22:54 2006 Received: from web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.126]:46027) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwBxu-0000g3-Pj for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:22:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 63284 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Jan 2006 05:22:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=FSjvT9mt2SBEDU/Kbr8xKCPHLA9oY7T1MNoedMRas33PDkU3HyNWAH4O12Np8zHAzfmaRchQU5Jq/bGYpuwGb1UQ2eTN5cVsIWeRc5UzLsRojFMXLGUgXJ7ORRACOBItCm01XzKqsgR8qzNL43okUQRCOAkb8tk33Ui3wcWS//E= ; Message-ID: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.130.100.167] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:22:30 PST Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:22:30 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.126 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1098806713-1136870550=:61866" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:22:55 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3286 Lines: 44 --0-1098806713-1136870550=:61866 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Much as you indeed own that milk, there are hundred of years of >precedent for attaching strings to contracts: As long as the subject >matter of the contract is not itself illegal[1], the courts have allowed >competent adults[2] to sign away almost all rights, if they're reckless >and don't carefully watch what they agree to.[3] Actually, just the opposite usually happens. Courts will not allow people to sign away their rights. That is why most contracts contain what is called a "severability" clause. A severability clause states to the effect that "in the event any portion of this contract is deemed illegal, void or unenforceable, such judgement does not effect the remaining portions of this contract, and such portions remain in full effect." Of course, in uncertain cases (grey areas) it all comes down to the judge and whatever personal bias the judge has (and can get away with while appearing to be impartial.) One of the basic principles of contract law is to write a contract that is as outrageous as possible, claiming rights beyond what is legal or reasonable, the rationale being that by exceeding the limits you will therefore be fully protected up to the limits allowed by law. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1098806713-1136870550=:61866 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>Much as you indeed own that milk, there are hundred of years of
>precedent for attaching strings to contracts:  As long as the subject
>matter of the contract is not itself illegal[1], the courts have allowed
>competent adults[2] to sign away almost all rights, if they're reckless
>and don't carefully watch what they agree to.[3]

Actually, just the opposite usually happens. Courts will not allow people
to sign away their rights. That is why most contracts contain what is
called a "severability" clause. A severability clause states to the effect
that "in the event any portion of this contract is deemed illegal, void or
unenforceable, such judgement does not effect the remaining portions
of this contract, and such portions remain in full effect."

Of course, in uncertain cases (grey areas) it all comes down to the judge and
whatever personal bias the judge has (and can get away with while
appearing to be impartial.)

One of the basic principles of contract law is to write a contract that is
as outrageous as possible, claiming rights beyond what is legal or
reasonable, the rationale being that by exceeding the limits you will
therefore be fully protected up to the limits allowed by law.

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1098806713-1136870550=:61866-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Jan 09 21:41:37 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwCGH-0000j3-03 by authid for ; Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:41:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:41:36 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060110052230.63282.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 05:41:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2376 Lines: 49 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Actually, just the opposite usually happens. Courts will not allow people > to sign away their rights. That is why most contracts contain what is ^^^^^^^^^^^ > called a "severability" clause. Whoa, there. Not so fast, pard'. Your fallacy lies in the underlined text, examined below. > A severability clause states to the effect that "in the event any > portion of this contract is deemed illegal, void or unenforceable, > such judgement does not effect the remaining portions of this > contract, and such portions remain in full effect." Contracts _do_ indeed tend to have severability clauses, but it's NOT because the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights: It's so that, if any clause, for any reason, gets voided (e.g., patent violation, violation of state regulations and statutes, etc.), it's nonetheless likely the court will allow the others to still be enforced -- by signalling _to_ the court that the parties thus intend and wish. > One of the basic principles of contract law is to write a contract > that is as outrageous as possible, claiming rights beyond what is > legal or reasonable, the rationale being that by exceeding the limits > you will therefore be fully protected up to the limits allowed by law. That is (all too often) true. But what is _not_ true is your original claim that disallowing benchmarking via a product licence is illegal and unenforceable -- nor your current, broader claim that the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights. You have talked around those claims, and cited legal mechanisms that aren't actually relevant to them, but you have not supported them. In fact -- since you mention it -- ANY contract you sign, by definition of the term "contract", inherently gives up (signs away) some right you already had going in. (Note that property, be it tangible, abstract, real estate, or other, _is_ a bundle of rights.) That deliberate foregoing of just rights that you already have in hand is what constitutes the required element of "consideration", without which no contract can ever be formed in the first place. In case anyone is curious, and with the previously cited proviso that IANAL, here are some old notes from business law class: "Contract Elements" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law/ From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Jan 11 10:16:54 2006 Received: from web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.121]:31029) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwkWS-0007YN-9f for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:16:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 41366 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 18:16:27 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=4UwgsllM4DdL7T5ObJlfpSXf+Ynej26wdbTnGWhRgDJeUTZC1p9nRnvOWwtpA56kdYZ/bm8OP9yMv3TcZldY4FhS9tAesSywnDK4kiVwCdE6NVPETT860+u3lC1JkVP+npg2F6iBN4vkAzk880kax18cozJU9NWub/YwkLBTPr4= ; Message-ID: <20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:16:27 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:16:27 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.121 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1392914400-1137003387=:41327" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 18:16:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2150 Lines: 36 --0-1392914400-1137003387=:41327 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting Rick Moen: >Again, I know of no reason to think this is true, and plenty to think >otherwise. It it _were_ true, I expect I'd have found caselaw to that >effect, and I found none. Not finding any case law is a good indication those types of clauses are not enforceable, else there would surely be case law on the subject. But the actual legal ramifications of Novell's license (which neither of us really understands in purely legal terms) are not as important as the business effect such licensing will have on Novell. Draconian licensing will alienate their customers, many of whom are likely looking to the exits anyway in light of recent "developments" at Novell. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1392914400-1137003387=:41327 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting Rick Moen:

>Again, I know of no reason to think this is true, and plenty to think
>otherwise.  It it _were_ true, I expect I'd have found caselaw to that
>effect, and I found none.

Not finding any case law is a good indication those types of clauses
are not enforceable, else there would surely be case law on the subject.

But the actual legal ramifications of Novell's license (which neither of us
really understands in purely legal terms) are not as important as the
business effect such licensing will have on Novell. Draconian licensing
will alienate their customers, many of whom are likely looking to the
exits anyway in light of recent "developments" at Novell.

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1392914400-1137003387=:41327-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Jan 11 11:00:04 2006 Received: from web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.115]:31358) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwlBv-0007h6-IO for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:00:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 33666 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 18:59:18 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=X1pL5a8+RczehdwJdTGCip9X56BFHw7NBUq7NXPAAhKREQNKqLuV7FgfhntBq8mD0F8jP/EA5wwYOp2BWu7tbMQjJt5f93MPdqZL7v2tWnYDG6b/p4UCXKa7m2b4N/Lz/Z3wxlCEBCqUsEU+RXOqTONIzILWyLuVwNa/V2+W3v8= ; Message-ID: <20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:59:18 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:59:18 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.115 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1298253644-1137005958=:33303" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:00:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6909 Lines: 84 --0-1298253644-1137005958=:33303 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Quoting Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com): >Contracts _do_ indeed tend to have severability clauses, but it's NOT >because the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights: It's >so that, if any clause, for any reason, gets voided (e.g., patent ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >violation, violation of state regulations and statutes, etc.), it's >nonetheless likely the court will allow the others to still be enforced >-- by signalling _to_ the court that the parties thus intend and wish. Including the reason that the clause is illegal. We agree on this point. >That is (all too often) true. But what is _not_ true is your original >claim that disallowing benchmarking via a product licence is illegal and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >unenforceable -- nor your current, broader claim that the courts don't >allow people to sign away their rights. You have talked around those ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >claims, and cited legal mechanisms that aren't actually relevant to >them, but you have not supported them. A contract is indeed an instrument that, in some instances, requires one or more parties to sign away rights. When it comes to purchasing a product, one right that a court is almost certain not to violate is a consumer's right to enjoy use of the product in a manner consistent with normal useage. In the world of computer operating systems, it is normal, and expected, for a consumer to benchmark the operating system. Benchmarking the operating system, especially for execution of software important to the customer, is part of the normal operational procedure inherent in normal useage of the product. The only apparent reason a software manufacturer would not want a customer to benchmark an operating system, is fear of competition. I'm sorry, but fear of competition just doesn't cut the mustard in a court of law, especially when it infringes on a customer's right to normal useage of their property. I haven't "talked around" anything, apparently you just haven't considered what has been said. That's O.K., it happens. >In fact -- since you mention it -- ANY contract you sign, by definition >of the term "contract", inherently gives up (signs away) some right you ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >already had going in. (Note that property, be it tangible, abstract, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >real estate, or other, _is_ a bundle of rights.) That deliberate >foregoing of just rights that you already have in hand is what >constitutes the required element of "consideration", without which no >contract can ever be formed in the first place. Untrue. Cheers, Adrien "I'm not O.K., you're not O.K., but that's O.K." --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1298253644-1137005958=:33303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Quoting Rick Moen (rick@linuxmafia.com):

>Contracts _do_ indeed tend to have severability clauses, but it's NOT
>because the courts don't allow people to sign away their rights:  It's
>so that, if any clause, for any reason, gets voided (e.g., patent
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>violation, violation of state regulations and statutes, etc.), it's
>nonetheless likely the court will allow the others to still be enforced
>-- by signalling _to_ the court that the parties thus intend and wish.

Including the reason that the clause is illegal. We agree on this point.


>That is (all too often) true.  But what is _not_ true is your original
>claim that disallowing benchmarking via a product licence is illegal and
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>unenforceable -- nor your current, broader claim that the courts don't
>allow people to sign away their rights.  You have talked around those
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>claims, and cited legal mechanisms that aren't actually relevant to
>them, but you have not supported them.

A contract is indeed an instrument that, in some instances, requires one
or more parties to sign away rights. When it comes to purchasing a product,
one right that a court is almost certain not to violate is a consumer's
right to enjoy use of the product in a manner consistent with normal useage.
In the world of computer operating systems, it is normal, and expected, for
a consumer to benchmark the operating system. Benchmarking the operating
system, especially for execution of software important to the customer,
is part of the normal operational procedure inherent in normal useage of
the product.

The only apparent reason a software manufacturer would not want a customer
to benchmark an operating system, is fear of competition. I'm sorry, but
fear of competition just doesn't cut the mustard in a court of law, especially
when it infringes on a customer's right to normal useage of their property.

I haven't "talked around" anything, apparently you just haven't considered
what has been said. That's O.K., it happens.


>In fact -- since you mention it -- ANY contract you sign, by definition
>of the term "contract", inherently gives up (signs away) some right you
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>already had going in.  (Note that property, be it tangible, abstract,
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>real estate, or other, _is_ a bundle of rights.)  That deliberate
>foregoing of just rights that you already have in hand is what
>constitutes the required element of "consideration", without which no
>contract can ever be formed in the first place.

Untrue.


Cheers,

Adrien

"I'm not O.K., you're not O.K., but that's O.K."


Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1298253644-1137005958=:33303-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Jan 11 12:13:17 2006 Received: from web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.127]:23275) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwmJy-0008Jc-4E for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:13:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 72085 invoked by uid 60001); 11 Jan 2006 20:11:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=zkX8HlOG95i6pgT9W8vaCcuFljZ59U6C0QzmitPRNTNMkYWCRmIZkReISvPdewG2uUC2jpMhmToA7EIXJDu2yCT5ONBb/+sInOwWWHyQJapfktRe4LmyelH0TaBJ6omja29l25UNDR0aJ20t9m3rxDRsVhW1tPGMo6i94NLyYw4= ; Message-ID: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:11:41 PST Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:11:41 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <0A693854-7E07-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.127 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_NONELEMENT_40_50 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-130625597-1137010301=:67457" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:13:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 21135 Lines: 283 --0-130625597-1137010301=:67457 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jim, Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful. Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have liked to. Adrien jim stockford wrote: The forwarded email below includes a list of significant linux developments expected in 2006, including notably (to me): * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5 * PalmSource Linux offering * Open Source Development Lab's Project ...Portland (targets the desktop) * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP). Begin forwarded message: > From: "NW on Linux" > Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Linux happenings in '06 > Reply-To: Linux Help > > NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX > 01/02/06 > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > Dear jim@well.com, > > In this issue: > > * Plan your year around Linux > * Links related to Linux > * Featured reader resource > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961 > _______________________________________________________________ > NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS > > NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network > projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are > examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by > industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology, > and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here > to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue: > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036 > _______________________________________________________________ > > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > By Phil Hochmuth > > As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with > the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective > disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward > to this year. > > Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006. > > February > > Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an > upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code > will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more > to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security > package and a LDAP directory administration tool. > > March > > Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES) > released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt > Lake City. Improved system management features, and server > virtualization management. > > April > > LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in > Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show, > running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well - > the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. > > May/June > > Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the > end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give > Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options > as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing. > > June/July > > The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first > release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the > summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application > criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from > Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE, > Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others. > > August > > LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone > Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from > Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise > Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating > system kernels. > > September/October > > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the > beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen > virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless > Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop > client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server. > > November/December > > IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data > Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents > created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use > a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to > be viewed by users who do not have the originating software. > > The top 10 most-read stories of 2005 > > 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac > > 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes > > 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test > > 4. This net screams > > 5. Networking skills are still hot > > 6. The 2005 salary survey > > 7. Cracking the wireless security code > > 8. 10 ways to stop spyware > > 9. VoIP analysis tools tested > > 10. Shattered Mac illusions > > > _______________________________________________________________ > To contact: Phil Hochmuth > > Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former > systems integrator. You can reach him at > . > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960 > _______________________________________________________________ > ARCHIVE LINKS > > Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, > updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html > Archive of the Linux newsletter: > http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html > _______________________________________________________________ > WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world. > > Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed > across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN > performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their > own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster > :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less > than two months. > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724 > _______________________________________________________________ > FEATURED READER RESOURCE > > WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK? > > You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors' > home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices & > security solutions and stay current on home network fun - > streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting > Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge > webzine today: > > > _______________________________________________________________ > May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? > You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered > at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by > receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply > today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2 > > International subscribers click here: > http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html > _______________________________________________________________ > SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES > > To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail > newsletters, go to: > > > To change your e-mail address, go to: > > > Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to > this message. > > This message was sent to: jim@well.com > Please use this address when modifying your subscription. > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, > at: > > Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 > Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 > > For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate > Publisher Online, at: > > Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006 > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-130625597-1137010301=:67457 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Jim,

Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful. Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have liked to.

Adrien


jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:
The forwarded email below includes a list of
significant linux developments expected in
2006, including notably (to me):
* XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5
* PalmSource Linux offering
* Open Source Development Lab's Project
...Portland (targets the desktop)
* Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5
* IBM's continued promotion of Open Data
...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "NW on Linux"
> Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST
> To: jim@well.com
> Subject: Linux happenings in '06
> Reply-To: Linux Help
>
> NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX
> 01/02/06
> Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06
>
> Dear jim@well.com,
>
> In this issue:
>
> * Plan your year around Linux
> * Links related to Linux
> * Featured reader resource
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123961
> _______________________________________________________________
> NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS
>
> NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network
> projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are
> examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by
> industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology,
> and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here
> to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue:
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=124036
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06
>
> By Phil Hochmuth
>
> As we return to work this first week of 2006, Linux users with
> the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective
> disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward
> to this year.
>
> Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006.
>
> February
>
> Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an
> upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code
> will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more
> to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security
> package and a LDAP directory administration tool.
>
> March
>
> Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES)
> released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt
> Lake City. Improved system management features, and server
> virtualization management.
>
> April
>
> LinuxWorld Expo organizers decided last year's February show in
> Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show,
> running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well -
> the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center.
>
> May/June
>
> Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the
> end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give
> Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options
> as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing.
>
> June/July
>
> The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first
> release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the
> summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application
> criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from
> Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE,
> Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others.
>
> August
>
> LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone
> Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from
> Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise
> Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating
> system kernels.
>
> September/October
>
> Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the
> beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen
> virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless
> Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop
> client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server.
>
> November/December
>
> IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data
> Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents
> created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use
> a standard, open source file format, allowing the documents to
> be viewed by users who do not have the originating software.
>
> The top 10 most-read stories of 2005
>
> 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac
>
> 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes
>
> 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test
>
> 4. This net screams
>
> 5. Networking skills are still hot
>
> 6. The 2005 salary survey
>
> 7. Cracking the wireless security code
>
> 8. 10 ways to stop spyware
>
> 9. VoIP analysis tools tested
>
> 10. Shattered Mac illusions
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> To contact: Phil Hochmuth
>
> Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former
> systems integrator. You can reach him at
> .
> _______________________________________________________________
> This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai
> Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer
> Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches
>
> Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a
> move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of
> managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and
> availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain
> their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the
> audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based
> applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line.
> Download this Network World Special Report today!
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123960
> _______________________________________________________________
> ARCHIVE LINKS
>
> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net,
> updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html
> Archive of the Linux newsletter:
> http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world.
>
> Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed
> across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN
> performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their
> own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster
> :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less
> than two months.
> http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=123724
> _______________________________________________________________
> FEATURED READER RESOURCE
>
> WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK?
>
> You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors'
> home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices &
> security solutions and stay current on home network fun -
> streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting
> Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge
> webzine today:
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> May We Send You a Free Print Subscription?
> You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered
> at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by
> receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply
> today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2
>
> International subscribers click here:
> http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html
> _______________________________________________________________
> SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail
> newsletters, go to:
>
>
> To change your e-mail address, go to:
>
>
> Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to
> this message.
>
> This message was sent to: jim@well.com
> Please use this address when modifying your subscription.
> _______________________________________________________________
>
> Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor,
> at:
>
> Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118
> Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772
>
> For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate
> Publisher Online, at:
>
> Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-130625597-1137010301=:67457-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 11 14:47:15 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwokM-0000ng-KY by authid for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:47:14 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:47:13 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060107061849.GV2513@linuxmafia.com> <20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111181627.41364.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:47:15 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1217 Lines: 27 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Not finding any case law is a good indication those types of clauses > are not enforceable, else there would surely be case law on the subject. No, it's really not. You don't find any caselaw stating that it's lawful for employers to demand that their employees not have conflicting personal businesses on the side, for example, because it's a settled point of law that you can sign away that right -- as you can practically any other -- in a contract. Which you may recall was my point. > But the actual legal ramifications of Novell's license (which neither > of us really understands in purely legal terms).... You're welcome to speak for yourself, but I'm not only a longtime student of business law, but also believe I know this area of it pretty well. In part, this was incidentally to my passing of the CPA exam in 1986, which of course doesn't require one to be a attorney but does entail a fair knowledge of some parts relevant to business. (Also, having front-row seats throughout my teenage years for a negligence suit against Boeing kind of drove home the law's importance, while also making me really determined to avoid _being_ a lawyer. ;-> ) From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Jan 11 14:53:33 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwoqR-0000ph-BZ by authid for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:53:31 -0800 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:53:30 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060110054136.GA32275@linuxmafia.com> <20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060111185918.33664.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 22:53:33 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 986 Lines: 24 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Including the reason that the clause is illegal. We agree on this point. If it _were_ illegal, yes. My mom's folks in Kansas used to say "If the hoptoad had wings, it wouldn't bump it's bottom on the prairie." (But hoptoad are wingless, that being the point.) > A contract is indeed an instrument that, in some instances, requires one > or more parties to sign away rights. When it comes to purchasing a product, > one right that a court is almost certain not to violate is a consumer's > right to enjoy use of the product in a manner consistent with normal useage. You're welcome to support this via cites (or anything else moderately relevant), and to establish that benchmarking is "normal usage" within the meaning of your phrase, any year, now. Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. You really should stop that. -- Cheers, Rick Moen Recidite, plebes! Gero rem Imperialem! rick@linuxmafia.com From jim@well.com Wed Jan 11 20:20:43 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:51481) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EwtwW-000346-0b for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:20:42 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0C4JEt7021137 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:20:02 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <07695C62-8323-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 20:22:23 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-34--181246648 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Job Posting: Looking for GNU/Linux...Level 2 Tech support/ Hardware product development. System/Network Administrator/ X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 04:20:43 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5274 Lines: 172 --Apple-Mail-34--181246648 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: Youhan Mubaraki > Date: January 11, 2006 4:58:54 PM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Job Posting: Looking for GNU/Linux...Level 2 Tech support/ > Hardware product development. System/Network Administrator/ > > > GNU/Linux System/Network Administrator/ Level 2 Tech support/ Hardware > product development. > > GNU/Linux Systems programmer > > GNU/Linux Kernel Hacker > > GNU/Linux HPC/Clustering (desirable but not necessary) > Most important is the person's ability to do level 2 Tech support and > help with Product development and marketing. We are looking for a > candidate that is willing to talk to vendors out there, and is capable > of developing the latest and greatest in hardware platforms, someone > who can develop new technology by talking to technologist and figuring > out how to make it all work. He should also have the capability to > work on large clusters(not required but desirable & the right > candidate will get the opportunity to learn as well), have knowledge > on all types of Open Source software and applications like OSCAR and > ROCKS, be able load and tweak for performance optimization all flavors > of Free Operating systems like CentOS, Fedora, Redhat, Suse, Debian, > Free BSD etc. The right candidate should also have Network > Administration experience with Linux and have through understanding of > the kernel(important). Experience with Intel and AMD 64 Bit hardware > very important. If you don't possess a few of the knowledge > requirements but are willing to learn its may be OK, we are flexible > and we can discuss your resume. > > Mazda Technologies works with top tier enterprise customers and the > Government DOE labs, this experience could be really enhance the right > candidates resume. Mazda Technologies is a fun and flexible > environment and with the right candidate we are willing to consider a > candidate that wants to work part time as well. > > Please call me for details if you have specific questions. You can > email me or call me at 925 699 4700 or 510 440 8988 ext 108 if you or > someone you know is Interested in this position. > Thank you > Youhan Mubaraki > > Mazda Technologies > www.mazdatechnologies.com > 48511 Warm Springs Blvd > STE 204 > Fremont CA 94539 > > Tel # 510 440 8988 ext 108 > Cell # 925 699 4700 > Fax # 510 405 8988 > Toll Free 1 888 510 8988 > > > > --Apple-Mail-34--181246648 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Youhan Mubaraki < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 11, 2006 4:58:54 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Job Posting: Looking for GNU/Linux...Level 2 Tech support/ Hardware product development. System/Network Administrator/ GNU/Linux System/Network Administrator/ Level 2 Tech support/ Hardware product development. GNU/Linux Systems programmer GNU/Linux Kernel Hacker GNU/Linux HPC/Clustering (desirable but not necessary) Most important is the person's ability to do level 2 Tech support and help with Product development and marketing. We are looking for a candidate that is willing to talk to vendors out there, and is capable of developing the latest and greatest in hardware platforms, someone who can develop new technology by talking to technologist and figuring out how to make it all work. He should also have the capability to work on large clusters(not required but desirable & the right candidate will get the opportunity to learn as well), have knowledge on all types of Open Source software and applications like OSCAR and ROCKS, be able load and tweak for performance optimization all flavors of Free Operating systems like CentOS, Fedora, Redhat, Suse, Debian, Free BSD etc. The right candidate should also have Network Administration experience with Linux and have through understanding of the kernel(important). Experience with Intel and AMD 64 Bit hardware very important. If you don't possess a few of the knowledge requirements but are willing to learn its may be OK, we are flexible and we can discuss your resume. Mazda Technologies works with top tier enterprise customers and the Government DOE labs, this experience could be really enhance the right candidates resume. Mazda Technologies is a fun and flexible environment and with the right candidate we are willing to consider a candidate that wants to work part time as well. Please call me for details if you have specific questions. You can email me or call me at 925 699 4700 or 510 440 8988 ext 108 if you or someone you know is Interested in this position. Thank you Youhan Mubaraki Mazda Technologies www.mazdatechnologies.com 48511 Warm Springs Blvd STE 204 Fremont CA 94539 Tel # 510 440 8988 ext 108 Cell # 925 699 4700 Fax # 510 405 8988 Toll Free 1 888 510 8988 --Apple-Mail-34--181246648-- From jim@well.com Wed Jan 11 21:38:04 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:59159) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ewv9m-0003TT-Ji for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:38:03 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0C5bL7A027638 for ; Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:37:21 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 21:39:38 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] An introduction to the Python programming language X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 05:38:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 652 Lines: 20 Thursday evening, January 12: Newbies Night If you want an introduction to the Python programming language, Marilyn Davis' presentation should be great--she's an experienced developer and expert teacher. I'm going and I'll be glad to take you along if you respond t this email before 8:00 AM Thursday, 1/12 (tomorrow) to arrange where I pick you up in SF. Gotta be at the Google Mountain View campus by around 7:00 PM, back around 11:00 PM, I'll drive you to your house. The event is the BayPiggies Python users' group: meet in Google Building 43 lobby and walk to room Tech Talk 42 (TT-42) (1600 Amphitheatre Pkwy, Mountain View). From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 11:28:08 2006 Received: from web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.116]:36050) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex873-00010a-RJ for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:28:07 -0800 Received: (qmail 49628 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 19:27:45 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=LQgawX0sI+j80gJxPxCpzjt7Vnp3MH2M9U4eGyRLX+4XFKCoM4I4pZtS55ogG6gQWFhTSmxFRCLaojhDDuTAu6N814gzfbPStVZE+BFtD8IdE503k3HoudvDQ3aS3THTfIG/K92IRWv9Pf0PRlNVUA2i+5W5ZEIFWbjr3H2aHKQ= ; Message-ID: <20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:27:45 PST Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.116 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1647120897-1137094065=:47429" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:28:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1899 Lines: 32 --0-1647120897-1137094065=:47429 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote: >You're welcome to speak for yourself, but I'm not only a longtime >student of business law, but also believe I know this area of it pretty >well. In part, this was incidentally to my passing of the CPA exam in >1986, which of course doesn't require one to be a attorney but does >entail a fair knowledge of some parts relevant to business. Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. The next time I meet a business person needing legal consultation, I'll definitely refer you. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1647120897-1137094065=:47429 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>You're welcome to speak for yourself, but I'm not only a longtime
>student of business law, but also believe I know this area of it pretty
>well.  In part, this was incidentally to my passing of the CPA exam in
>1986, which of course doesn't require one to be a attorney but does
>entail a fair knowledge of some parts relevant to business.

Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. The next time I meet a
business person needing legal consultation, I'll definitely refer you.

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1647120897-1137094065=:47429-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 11:32:25 2006 Received: from web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.117]:38204) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex8B7-00013g-7C for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:32:24 -0800 Received: (qmail 34776 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 19:31:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=txKbUrZLsDKHGHxJLHGv/bymn9PBMhO/ToAus1LxpjWHL0+kMGBRN4bS/1UbIwKdSt+C6ZoVcNHU8CK4IPE4CZObJQK6VXmgKQhmGhmBAo8EP084ufV63BzputyA3eWcvjlCv/PHH3C3nGmrLn2d2pb+MTj+8S1kA6cZ77qVwFI= ; Message-ID: <20060112193159.34774.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:31:59 PST Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:31:59 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.117 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-184453186-1137094319=:34598" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:32:26 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1598 Lines: 34 --0-184453186-1137094319=:34598 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote: >Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. You really should stop that. Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of the concept, so further discussion is pointless. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-184453186-1137094319=:34598 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien


Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-184453186-1137094319=:34598-- From Ola.Peters@mscibarra.com Thu Jan 12 11:35:24 2006 Received: from hqvsbh1.ms.com ([205.228.12.101]:36792) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex8Dx-00017L-7A ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:35:24 -0800 Received: from hqvsbh1.ms.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost.ms.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B8E20D9B; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from ny37im02.ms.com (unknown [144.14.31.41]) by hqvsbh1.ms.com (internal Postfix) with ESMTP id C4B3D20B4D; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from PAWEXOB01.msad.ms.com (pawexob01 [205.228.46.100]) by ny37im02.ms.com (Sendmail MTA Hub) with ESMTP id k0CJYvU21957; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from PIWEXBH02.msad.ms.com ([205.228.46.225]) by PAWEXOB01.msad.ms.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:37 -0500 Importance: normal Priority: normal Received: from NYWEXMB84.msad.ms.com ([144.203.227.11]) by PIWEXBH02.msad.ms.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.326 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 14:34:35 -0500 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. thread-index: AcYXrvxM31vNsYNIQFKCAbHwek8RyAAABuEw From: "Peters, Ola \(MSCIBARRA\)" To: "Adrien Lamothe" , "Rick Moen" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Jan 2006 19:34:36.0713 (UTC) FILETIME=[38D97990:01C617AF] Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of Ola.Peters@mscibarra.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 205.228.12.101 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: Ola.Peters@mscibarra.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C617AF.3869F94C" Subject: RE: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:35:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4581 Lines: 127 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C617AF.3869F94C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Would you guys mind taking this offline to a private email passing?=20 =20 Thanks, =20 Ola ________________________________ From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien Lamothe Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 AM To: Rick Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Rick Moen wrote: >Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. You really should stop that. Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of the concept, so further discussion is pointless. - Adrien ________________________________ Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars . Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. -------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender = does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C617AF.3869F94C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Would you guys mind taking this offline to a = private email=20 passing?
 
Thanks,
 
Ola

From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com=20 [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien=20 Lamothe
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 = AM
To: Rick=20 Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's = explanation=20 of his internet setup.

Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> = wrote:

>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. =
 You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the =
same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand =
the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling =
to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion =
is
pointless.

- Adrien


Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Phot= o=20 Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

NOTICE: = If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender does not waive = confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C617AF.3869F94C-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 11:41:43 2006 Received: from web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.115]:44628) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex8KB-0001Bn-F9 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:41:42 -0800 Received: (qmail 11040 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 19:41:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=KTucnD3Qq8On/I+yItu/mpF67wy0Y/u60xepQdVadh0eLVVYZgqzeNVELpxrZc0jSf9NERdjh2ixrVCy4r2kelg3WF7idBUOxRorpx0DrgDW2GLPO93ssRSZCZG/6gvkuBBWJVGKMwSgmseUMKDretv6My3K5OtS9PcNPI4rRdM= ; Message-ID: <20060112194122.11038.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:41:22 PST Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:41:22 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060111225329.GE32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.115 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1786018048-1137094882=:10270" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:41:43 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1603 Lines: 33 --0-1786018048-1137094882=:10270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote: >Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. You really should stop that. Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of the concept, so further discussion is pointless. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1786018048-1137094882=:10270 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien

Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1786018048-1137094882=:10270-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 11:53:17 2006 Received: from web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.115]:28028) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex8Ur-0001Hv-Cb for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:53:15 -0800 Received: (qmail 15322 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 19:52:26 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=IQlqI2D+I9koZ25fKyoVnbwVuN8VKVgTQb7swvrnuqOjDPpa8uBtg+YQwVw4842eRNUiIThr9oN54vvzSMhmN7rXJpOezMT59ZTqm3fbrlyHrYISm8OHZnHNaBKHCiM7bQhlhWAP1pooE+LQlCyBw2TrpRXKITmK8pCvOnVAnO8= ; Message-ID: <20060112195226.15320.qmail@web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31403.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:52:26 PST Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:52:26 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.115 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: RE: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2088080909-1137095546=:14900" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 19:53:19 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4929 Lines: 65 --0-2088080909-1137095546=:14900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Given the staleness of discourse, Ola, your idea is excellent. It is safe to say we are done with the discussion. "Peters, Ola (MSCIBARRA)" wrote: Would you guys mind taking this offline to a private email passing? Thanks, Ola --------------------------------- From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien Lamothe Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 AM To: Rick Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Rick Moen wrote: >Adrien, your reasoning has been circular. You really should stop that. Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of the concept, so further discussion is pointless. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --------------------------------- NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender. Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-2088080909-1137095546=:14900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Given the staleness of discourse, Ola, your idea is excellent. It is safe to say we are done with the discussion.

"Peters, Ola (MSCIBARRA)" <Ola.Peters@mscibarra.com> wrote:
Would you guys mind taking this offline to a private email passing?
 
Thanks,
 
Ola

From: sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com [mailto:sf-lug-bounces@linuxmafia.com] On Behalf Of Adrien Lamothe
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 11:32 AM
To: Rick Moen; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup.

Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:

>Adrien, your reasoning has been circular.  You really should stop that.

Circular? I've been re-stating the same concept, using
 different
language, hoping you might understand the concept if explained
different ways. It appears you are unwilling to acknowledge
the validity of the concept, so further discussion is
pointless.

- Adrien


Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.
NOTICE: If received in error, please destroy and notify sender.  Sender does not waive confidentiality or privilege, and use is prohibited.

Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-2088080909-1137095546=:14900-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Jan 12 12:39:54 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex9Ef-0001nF-9S by authid for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:39:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:39:52 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060111224713.GD32275@linuxmafia.com> <20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060112192745.49626.qmail@web31404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 20:39:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 790 Lines: 23 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of knowledge. But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of Debate (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1). > I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language Without supporting it. > ...further discussion is pointless. OK, cool. But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in particular the definition of "valuable consideration". -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 12 13:22:04 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:42767) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ex9tF-0002DN-Sm for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:22:03 -0800 Received: (qmail 18717 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jan 2006 21:21:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=dvs2dBIv160nTU5MFPIiYJ63GDEZFofAIU2kFTAhm+0hw5bqbdfICN2RWJlcGOzw91EANBypcsMv5ZHF9yVXrFZ+cC7ZnXwkeyH2s0a4+dDwww3lTLUOxyReq1pzStuO1cDokd93fet/6EOmz7wRicRgJoFbuoKp20+eiPUm5BU= ; Message-ID: <20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:21:42 PST Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:21:42 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1944627882-1137100902=:12809" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:22:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3136 Lines: 54 --0-1944627882-1137100902=:12809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Debate, Rhetoric and Politics, the three hag sisters of those uninterested in truth but seeking popularity. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of knowledge. But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of Debate (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1). > I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language Without supporting it. > ...further discussion is pointless. OK, cool. But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in particular the definition of "valuable consideration". -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1944627882-1137100902=:12809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Debate, Rhetoric and Politics, the three hag sisters of those uninterested
in truth but seeking popularity.



Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep.

Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't
speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of knowledge.
But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of Debate
(http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1).

> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language

Without supporting it.

> ...further discussion is pointless.

OK, cool. But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in
particular the definition of "valuable consideration".

--
Cheers,
Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos
Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --0-1944627882-1137100902=:12809-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Jan 12 13:44:25 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExAF6-0002LB-9R by authid for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:44:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:44:23 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Rick's explanation of his internet setup. Message-ID: <20060112214423.GO32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060112203952.GI32275@linuxmafia.com> <20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060112212142.18715.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:44:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 275 Lines: 9 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > Debate, Rhetoric and Politics, the three hag sisters of those uninterested > in truth but seeking popularity. A neater demonstration of Moen's First Law of Debate, I have seldom seen. I trust this will be on my bill. ;-> From jim@well.com Thu Jan 12 17:28:09 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:63319) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExDho-0004DJ-Js for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:28:07 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0CFXVk2016740; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:33:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:35:49 -0800 To: Adrien Lamothe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1239/Thu Jan 12 03:36:22 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-35--140840706 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:28:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 20397 Lines: 810 --Apple-Mail-35--140840706 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Thanks for the thanks, Adrien. Come on down to Javacat this coming Monday, January 16 (the regular meeting, third Monday of the month) from 6:00 till 8:00. On Jan 11, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful.=20 > Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have=20 > liked to. > > Adrien > > > jim stockford wrote: > The forwarded email below includes a list of > significant linux developments expected in > 2006, including notably (to me): > * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5 > * PalmSource Linux offering > * Open Source Development Lab's Project > ...Portland (targets the desktop) > * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 > * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data > ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP). > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "NW on Linux" > > Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST > > To: jim@well.com > > Subject: Linux happenings in '06 > > Reply-To: Linux Help > > > > NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX > > 01/02/06 > > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > > > Dear jim@well.com, > > > > In this issue: > > > > * Plan your year around Linux > > * Links related to Linux > > * Featured reader resource > > _______________________________________________________________ > > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > > audience they are trying to reach. Learn! how Web-based > > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > > Download this Network World Special Report today! > > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123961 > > _______________________________________________________________ > > NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS > > > > NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network > > projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are > > examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by > > industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology, > > and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here > > to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue: > > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D124036 > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > > > By Phil Hochmuth > > > > As we return to! work this first week of 2006, Linux users with > > the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective > > disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward > > to this year. > > > > Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006. > > > > February > > > > Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an > > upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code > > will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more > > to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security > > package and a LDAP directory administration tool. > > > > March > > > > Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES) > > released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt > > Lake City. Improved system management features, and server > > virtualization management. > > > > April > > > > LinuxWorld Expo organizers d! ecided last year's February show in > > Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show, > > running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well - > > the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. > > > > May/June > > > > Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the > > end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give > > Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options > > as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing. > > > > June/July > > > > The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first > > release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the > > summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application > > criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from > > Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE, > > Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others. > >! ; > > August > > > > LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone > > Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from > > Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise > > Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating > > system kernels. > > > > September/October > > > > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the > > beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen > > virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless > > Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop > > client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server. > > > > November/December > > > > IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data > > Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents > > created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use > > a standard, open source file form! at, allowing the documents to > > be viewed by users who do not have the originating software. > > > > The top 10 most-read stories of 2005 > > > > 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac > > > > 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes > > > > 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test > > > > 4. This net screams > > > > 5. Networking skills are still hot > > > > 6. The 2005 salary survey > > > > 7. Cracking the wireless security code > > > > 8. 10 ways to stop spyware > > > > 9. VoIP analysis tools tested > > > > 10. Shattered Mac illusions > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > To contact: Phil Hochmuth > > > > Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former > > systems integrator. You can reach him at > > . > > _______________________________________________________________ > > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > > Download this Network World Special Report today! > > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123960 > > _______________________________________________________________ > > ARCHIVE LINKS > >> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, > > updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html > > Archive of the Linux newsletter: > > http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html > > _______________________________________________________________ > > WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world. > > > > Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed > > across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN > > performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their > > own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster > > :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less > > than two months. > > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123724 > > _______________________________________________________________ > > FEATURED READER RESOURCE > > > > WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK? > > > > ! You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors' > > home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices & > > security solutions and stay current on home network fun - > > streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting > > Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge > > webzine today: > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________ > > May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? > > You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered > > at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by > > receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply > > today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2 > > > > International subscribers click here: > > http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html > > _______________________________________________________________>=20 > SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail > > newsletters, go to: > > > > > > To change your e-mail address, go to: > > > > > > Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to > > this message. > > > > This message was sent to: jim@well.com > > Please use this address when modifying your subscription. > > _______________________________________________________________ > > > > Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, > > at: > > > > Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 > > Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 > > > > For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate > > Publisher Online, at: > > > > Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006 > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover > Photo Books. You design it and we=92ll bind=20 > it!_______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-35--140840706 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Thanks for the thanks, Adrien. Come on=20 down to Javacat this coming Monday,=20 January 16 (the regular meeting, third=20 Monday of the month) from 6:00 till 8:00.=20 On Jan 11, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: Hi Jim, Thanks for posting the events list, I've already found it useful. Wasn't able to make it to the meeting the other night, would have liked to. Adrien jim stockford < wrote: The forwarded email below includes a list of significant linux developments expected in 2006, including notably (to me): * XEN inclusion in Fedora Core 5 * PalmSource Linux offering * Open Source Development Lab's Project ...Portland (targets the desktop) * Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 * IBM's continued promotion of Open Data ...Formats (Peter Quinn RIP). Begin forwarded message: > From: "NW on Linux" > Date: January 5, 2006 12:20:00 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Linux happenings in '06 > Reply-To: Linux Help > > NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX > 01/02/06 > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > Dear jim@well.com, > > In this issue: > > * Plan your year around Linux > * Links related to Linux > * Featured reader resource > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn! how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123961 > _______________________________________________________________ > NETWORK WORLD PRESENTS THE ENTERPRISE ALL STARS > > NWW honors 50 companies and their groundbreaking network > projects. Companies who have projects so stellar they are > examples for all. Read about the winners by technology and by > industry, how they demonstrated exceptional use of technology, > and how smart use of technology is smart business. Click here > to read the Enterprise All-Star Special Issue: > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D124036 > _______________________________________________________________ > > Today's focus: Linux happenings in '06 > > By Phil Hochmuth > > As we return to! work this first week of 2006, Linux users with > the post-holiday blahs, cabin fever or seasonal affective > disorder should be glad to know there is a lot to look forward > to this year. > > Here is a rundown of expected Linux happenings in 2006. > > February > > Users of Red Hat's free Fedora Core operating system will get an > upgrade when Version 5 of the software is released. The new code > will include Xen virtualization software - a precursor of more > to come from Red Hat in '06 - as well as an SELinux security > package and a LDAP directory administration tool. > > March > > Expect to see Novell's SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 (SLES) > released around the time of its BrainShare conference in Salt > Lake City. Improved system management features, and server > virtualization management. > > April > > LinuxWorld Expo organizers d! ecided last year's February show in > Boston might have been a little to chilly. The 2006 show, > running April 3-6, will take place at a larger venue as well - > the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center. > > May/June > > Expect PalmSource to make its first Linux offering around the > end of the first half of the year. Palm OS for Linux will give > Palm devices a broader set of hardware and application options > as Linux becomes a more popular platform for handheld computing. > > June/July > > The Open Source Development Lab is expected to have the first > release of its Project Portland out by the beginning of the > summer. The desktop-focused Linux effort sets common application > criteria for personal Linux PC software and includes input from > Adobe Systems, AMD, Eclipse, FSG, Gnome, IBM, Intel, KDE, > Mozilla, Nokia, OpenOffice, Red Hat and others. >! ; > August > > LinuxWorld Expo takes place for the seventh year at the Moscone > Center in San Francisco. At LinuxWorld, expect to hear from > Novell again, as it launches an update to its Open Enterprise > Server, which includes both its NetWare and SuSE Linux operating > system kernels. > > September/October > > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 is expected to launch at the > beginning of the fall. The new software will wrap in the Xen > virtualization software for servers, as well as a new "Stateless > Linux" feature, allowing thin clients to run a full desktop > client environment hosted on a RHEL 5 server. > > November/December > > IBM is expected to move more aggressively towards Open Data > Formats (ODF), also known as the OpenDocument format. Documents > created in IBM applications - such as its Lotus suite - will use > a standard, open source file form! at, allowing the documents to > be viewed by users who do not have the originating software. > > The top 10 most-read stories of 2005 > > 1. Mad as hell, switching to Mac >=20 > 2. How to solve Windows system crashes in minutes >=20 > 3. McAfee, Omniquad top anti-spyware test >=20 > 4. This net screams >=20 > 5. Networking skills are still hot >=20 > 6. The 2005 salary survey >=20 > 7. Cracking the wireless security code >=20 > 8. 10 ways to stop spyware >=20 > 9. VoIP analysis tools tested >=20 > 10. Shattered Mac illusions >=20 > > _______________________________________________________________ > To contact: Phil Hochmuth > > Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former > systems integrator. You can reach him at > . > _______________________________________________________________ > This newsletter is sponsored by Akamai > Accelerating Web-based Applications: Managed Services Offer > Benefits Without Infrastructure Headaches > > Look at most companies and you'll find one thing in common, a > move to Web-enable mission critical applications. A new breed of > managed services, aimed directly at accelerating performance and > availability of Web-based applications, helps companies attain > their goals of profit and growth - no matter how far or wide the > audience they are trying to reach. Learn how Web-based > applications can allow your company to boost the bottom line. > Download this Network World Special Report today! > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123960 > _______________________________________________________________ > ARCHIVE LINKS >> Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, > updated daily: http://www.networkworld.com/topics/linux.html > Archive of the Linux newsletter: > http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/index.html > _______________________________________________________________ > WEBCAST: Optimize your WAN Case studies from the real world. > > Wide area Data Services (WDS) technology has been deployed > across many industries in order to dramatically enhance WAN > performance. In this webcast, two organizations discuss their > own results and ROI: Applications running 5 to 100 times faster > :: Bandwidth utilization reduced by 60% to 95% :: ROI in less > than two months. > http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=3D123724 > _______________________________________________________________ > FEATURED READER RESOURCE > > WHO'S MANAGING YOUR HOME NETWORK? > > ! You probably are - and you're probably managing your neighbors' > home networks too. Get the latest in home networking devices & > security solutions and stay current on home network fun - > streaming video wirelessly on your TV for example - by getting > Network Life from Network World. Sign up for this no charge > webzine today: > >=20 > _______________________________________________________________ > May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? > You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered > at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by > receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. Apply > today at http://www.subscribenw.com/nl2 > > International subscribers click here: > http://nww1.com/go/circ_promo.html > _______________________________________________________________> SUBSCRIPTION SERVICES > > To subscribe or unsubscribe to any Network World e-mail > newsletters, go to: >=20 > > To change your e-mail address, go to: >=20 > > Subscription questions? Contact Customer Service by replying to > this message. > > This message was sent to: jim@well.com > Please use this address when modifying your subscription. > _______________________________________________________________ > > Have editorial comments? Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, > at:=20 > > Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 > Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 > > For advertising information, write Susan Cardoza, Associate > Publisher Online, at:=20 > > Copyright Network World, Inc., 2006 > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug Yahoo! Photos =96 Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover 0000,0000,EEEEPhoto Books. You design it and we=92ll bind it!_______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-35--140840706-- From nbs@sonic.net Thu Jan 12 17:31:02 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:54859) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExDmJ-0004Fr-V4 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:31:01 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0D1Uf1R032587 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:nUvPi+VFswZwKk897TFmCuPjRMejxhri@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k0D1UfsT031005 for ; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k0D1UfLH031004 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:30:41 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060113013041.GA30984@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060111201141.72083.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1B3A308E-8381-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux happenings in '06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:31:02 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 408 Lines: 13 On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 07:35:49AM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > Thanks for the thanks, Adrien. Come on > down to Javacat this coming Monday, > January 16 (the regular meeting, third > Monday of the month) from 6:00 till 8:00. Bah! Just drive a few hours east to Davis for LUGOD! We'll have _cake!_ ( Seriously, though, it's our 7th anniversary ;^) http://www.lugod.org/meeting/ ) -bill! From david@sterryit.com Fri Jan 13 00:34:13 2006 Received: from mail22.atl.registeredsite.com ([216.247.37.42]:13763 ident=[U2FsdGVkX190kS2Ei9gtFZmETp1XVSHOf5Q8zrIuAIU=]) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExKNs-00079W-Du for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:34:12 -0800 Received: from imta08a2.registeredsite.com (imta08a2.registeredsite.com [64.225.255.17]) by mail22.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id k0D8XosJ025419; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:33:50 -0500 Received: from [10.168.29.125] ([67.169.101.132]) by imta08a2.registeredsite.com with ESMTP id <20060113083349.SFQD10036.imta08a2.registeredsite.com@[10.168.29.125]>; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:33:49 -0500 Message-ID: <43C7656B.7070809@sterryit.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:31:39 -0800 From: David Sterry User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ayhan@abkod.com, kevin@electricdiary.com, Damien Benoit , mt@hush.ai, Beau Hartshorne , Joseph Payne , vranganathan@gmail.com, sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH CRAM-MD5 at imta08a2.registeredsite.com from [67.169.101.132] using ID david@sterryit.com at Fri, 13 Jan 2006 03:33:44 -0500 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of david@sterryit.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 216.247.37.42 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: david@sterryit.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Chatr 0.5 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:34:13 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 223 Lines: 10 Hello everyone, Just a quick note to let you know I just released version 0.5 of Chatr with smilies, better language support, and easier installation. You can check it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat Thanks, Dave From alamozzz@yahoo.com Fri Jan 13 10:02:55 2006 Received: from web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.120]:35113) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExTFw-0002PN-BL for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:02:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 66158 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2006 18:02:24 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=AtM1kje8crJxmc4jqJ04rELK/2q8Yim5RlLuWcBWxGsqVn2QKStOHamF4hfscTub4Obs+3PKSSPlBr13CGw8x8PAW5Jkwn/8EIKO1ej1DAnAnMWVBmp1B/JAv1sOkUvyfCpcYNoH4OYmjT6bnDqOHz1lBDDWCT2cNRKCozPLHw8= ; Message-ID: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:02:24 PST Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:02:24 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.120 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1273294329-1137175344=:63663" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing list. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:02:55 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5084 Lines: 78 --0-1273294329-1137175344=:63663 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or more mailing lists. This also can help reduce the amount of spam that is received on your primary email account; spammers troll mailing lists to "harvest" email addresses. Rick probably has more insight into this, given how long he has maintained a mailing list. Incidentally, the volume of messages in our discussion was actually quite low, go check out some of the threads on the "conspire" mailing list at linuxmafia.com. - Adrien jim stockford wrote: Per Ola's recent request, keep it offline, please. we've had several people drop off the sf-lug mailing list. I want to say, however, that I liked the content; it's pretty well talked out at this point, though, don't you think? thanks, jim On Jan 12, 2006, at 12:39 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > >> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep. > > Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't > speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of > knowledge. > But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of > Debate > (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1). > >> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language > > Without supporting it. > >> ...further discussion is pointless. > > OK, cool. But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in > particular the definition of "valuable consideration". > > -- > Cheers, > Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." > rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1273294329-1137175344=:63663 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at
someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
more mailing lists. This also can help reduce the amount of spam that
is received on your primary email account; spammers troll mailing lists
to "harvest" email addresses. Rick probably has more insight into this,
given how long he has maintained a mailing list. Incidentally, the volume
of messages in our discussion was actually quite low, go check out some
of the threads on the "conspire" mailing list at linuxmafia.com.

- Adrien

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

Per Ola's recent request, keep it offline, please.
we've had several people drop off the sf-lug
mailing list.
I want to say, however, that I liked the content;
it's pretty well talked out at this point, though,
don't you think?
thanks,
jim


On Jan 12, 2006, at 12:39 PM, Rick Moen wrote:

> Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):
>
>> Wow, I had no idea your expertise was so deep.
>
> Which is of course not what I said at all; I just said you shouldn't
> speak for me, in your claim that we're _both_ outside our field of
> knowledge.
> But you're basically playing out the logic of Moen's First Law of
> Debate
> (http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#moenslaw-debate1).
>
>> I've been re-stating the same concept, using different language
>
> Without supporting it.
>
>> ...further discussion is pointless.
>
> OK, cool. But you might want to re-study contract law on your own, in
> particular the definition of "valuable consideration".
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font."
> rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>


Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --0-1273294329-1137175344=:63663-- From nbs@sonic.net Fri Jan 13 10:19:23 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:52128) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExTW5-0002Uw-EX for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:22 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0DIJApG001251 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:10 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:NcDQEoLXelc0sWzkIEueXHGwOkHlEhMD@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k0DIJ8sT028780 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:08 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k0DIJ7kX028779 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:07 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:19:07 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: SF Linux Users Group Message-ID: <20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: SF Linux Users Group References: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing list. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:19:24 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2375 Lines: 54 On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 10:02:24AM -0800, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the > sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at > someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or > more mailing lists. Personally, I use "procmail" and the "Mutt" mail client on my Sonic.net shell account. For example, in my ~/.procmail file, I have: :0 * ^TO_(.*\<)?sf-lug@linuxmafia.com in-lugs Which means anything sent directly (or in-directly) to the address "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" should go into my "in-lugs" mailing list. (Which I get to in Mutt by either hitting [C] (change folder) and typing "=in-lugs", or using the [Y] key, which calls upon some Mutt code to bring up a list of my various procmail-constructed inboxes. [*].) Additionally, in my ~/.mutt/muttrc file, I have the following: folder-hook in-lugs "bind pager 'r' list-reply" folder-hook in-lugs "bind index 'r' list-reply" Which causes the [R] (reply) command to _actually_ invoke a list reply (normally accessed via [L]). This lets me continue my bad habit of hitting [R] to reply to messages, but still have them go back to the list on those lists which do not munge the Reply-To header. (i.e., lists which, if you merely hit "reply" in your mail client, you'll be replying directly to the sender, rather than back to the list.) (Note: If I _do_ want to reply to the sender, rather than the list, I simply tell Mutt "no, I don't want to reply to the list" ([N]) after hitting list-reply ([R] or [L])). [*] Here's the muttrc options to activate this "[Y]ank" command, allowing me to see the various mailboxes I've saved, or which are cobbled together by procmail recipies, and that live in my ~/Mail/ directory on my shell account: # Macros: make 'y' go to mailbox screen from index and browser macro index "y" "c?\t" macro browser "y" "\t\t" Thanks to Mike Simons for sharing that trick, and convincing me to ditch Elm and switch to Mutt. Only took him a coupla years, and I can't thank him enough. Best. Mail User Agent. Ever! -- -bill! Now available! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, bill@newbreedsoftware.com bumper sticker, and apparel! http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw/ From nbs@sonic.net Fri Jan 13 10:21:35 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:57944) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExTYJ-0002WO-7W for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:34 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k0DILS6w026333 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:28 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:L7NFYD86q4iKaLwuw+hoqYmyx8hJ+++W@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k0DILRsT028982 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:27 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k0DILR59028981 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:27 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:21:27 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: SF Linux Users Group Message-ID: <20060113182127.GC27595@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: SF Linux Users Group References: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060113181907.GB27595@sonic.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing list. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:21:35 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 390 Lines: 10 On Fri, Jan 13, 2006 at 10:19:07AM -0800, Bill Kendrick wrote: > Which means anything sent directly (or in-directly) to the address > "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" should go into my "in-lugs" mailing list. Err... mail _box_ :) (It just happens to be where I store all of the various LUG mailing list traffic. Well, except LUGOD. It gets its own box, cuz it's so special to me ;^) ) -bill! From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Jan 13 10:40:44 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExTqs-0002ds-4x by authid for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:40 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing list. Message-ID: <20060113184040.GE32275@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060113180224.66156.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:40:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1219 Lines: 72 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the > sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at > someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or > more mailing lists. I just have this sort of stuff in my .procmailrc: ### LIST CATCH-ALLS :0: * ^X-BeenThere:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^X-Loop:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^X-Mailing-List:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^Mailing-List:* $HOME/inboxes/lists ### MAILMAN REMINDERS # Happy mailman day everybody! :0: * ^From: .*mailman-owner@ * ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder $HOME/inboxes/mailman-day :0: * ^From: .*listmaster@ * ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder $HOME/inboxes/mailman-day ### Challenge/Response nagmails to be discarded un-read :0: * ^X-Mailer: ispworks-spammgr* /dev/null :0: * ^X-AskVersion* /dev/null # Active Spam Killer :0: * ^Subject: RE: message [Qurb.* /dev/null # Qurb :0: * ^From: automated-response@earthlink.net /dev/null # Earthlink spamBlocker Of course, I do the maverick thing of reading mail right on my MTA box, but the knack should be usable for other situations, too. From alamozzz@yahoo.com Fri Jan 13 10:59:46 2006 Received: from web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.126]:39845) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExU91-0002jE-Jn for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:59:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 55638 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jan 2006 18:59:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BdsUXomxJs1fSluXCkUIGxbwOjf3yzRR/lHbAuhUB4QQAcJVTxk7Guth/OD5V1fJRL4tR+FoVxB85/LNM4vtATGm2PF4yuRrjcvHKj31CdJs/8Dei6+B7FG3KCY0MOYM5DvchX13plmf0RWlAO9vIa1xwIavuCTW9BDxu/mvKoY= ; Message-ID: <20060113185919.55636.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:59:19 PST Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:59:19 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060113184040.GE32275@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.126 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] How to deal with a high volume of email from a mailing list. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1881720343-1137178759=:54930" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 18:59:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4242 Lines: 102 --0-1881720343-1137178759=:54930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's cool, but some people may not have access to that, or are set up differently. For example, Ola is using his work account for the list. Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the > sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at > someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or > more mailing lists. I just have this sort of stuff in my .procmailrc: ### LIST CATCH-ALLS :0: * ^X-BeenThere:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^X-Loop:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^X-Mailing-List:* $HOME/inboxes/lists :0: * ^Mailing-List:* $HOME/inboxes/lists ### MAILMAN REMINDERS # Happy mailman day everybody! :0: * ^From: .*mailman-owner@ * ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder $HOME/inboxes/mailman-day :0: * ^From: .*listmaster@ * ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder $HOME/inboxes/mailman-day ### Challenge/Response nagmails to be discarded un-read :0: * ^X-Mailer: ispworks-spammgr* /dev/null :0: * ^X-AskVersion* /dev/null # Active Spam Killer :0: * ^Subject: RE: message [Qurb.* /dev/null # Qurb :0: * ^From: automated-response@earthlink.net /dev/null # Earthlink spamBlocker Of course, I do the maverick thing of reading mail right on my MTA box, but the knack should be usable for other situations, too. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1881720343-1137178759=:54930 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
That's cool, but some people may not have access to that, or are set up
differently. For example, Ola is using his work account for the list.



Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com):

> For those new to mailing lists, there is a technique for dealing with the
> sometimes lengthy discussions: create a separate email account, at
> someplace like Yahoo, and use the account for participating in one or
> more mailing lists.

I just have this sort of stuff in my .procmailrc:


### LIST CATCH-ALLS

:0:
* ^X-BeenThere:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Loop:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^X-Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists

:0:
* ^Mailing-List:*
$HOME/inboxes/lists



### MAILMAN REMINDERS
# Happy mailman day everybody!
:0:
* ^From: .*mailman-owner@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day

:0:
* ^From: .*listmaster@
* ^Subject: .* mailing list memberships reminder
$HOME/inboxes/mailman-day


### Challenge/Response nagmails to be discarded un-read

:0:
* ^X-Mailer: ispworks-spammgr*
/dev/null


:0:
* ^X-AskVersion*
/dev/null
# Active Spam Killer

:0:
* ^Subject: RE: message [Qurb.*
/dev/null
# Qurb

:0:
* ^From: automated-response@earthlink.net
/dev/null
# Earthlink spamBlocker




Of course, I do the maverick thing of reading mail right on my MTA box,
but the knack should be usable for other situations, too.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --0-1881720343-1137178759=:54930-- From joe.payne@gmail.com Fri Jan 13 13:21:20 2006 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.204]:54388) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1ExWM3-0003uo-P9 for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:21:19 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 70so734597wra for ; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:20:58 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=IKSuMwKGRACTy4N5s3YlNNGothtA+prMLYk3xYDCDJ4H0uf6/GZp4LkKF+8m4e+MuqNR+1AmZ6AZ9XKG7InmzrTN/+ya6NZFWH+pEukWm2uC74QkPbVKL2W76PRgqMk0tHcVIsQxR613jw4Fa/6TUXiaN0FmqaJJ6VUeAMIMt18= Received: by 10.65.183.7 with SMTP id k7mr2151925qbp; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.65.192.8 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:20:58 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <25c431620601131320y4e735f93g74b5585b4dc54f54@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 16:20:58 -0500 From: Joseph Payne To: emailme@337studios.com In-Reply-To: <002a01c61869$d59321e0$6401a8c0@337studios> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <43C7656B.7070809@sterryit.com> <002a01c61869$d59321e0$6401a8c0@337studios> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of joe.payne@gmail.com designates 64.233.184.204 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.184.204 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: joe.payne@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5135_6210450.1137187258553" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:02:54 -0800 Cc: ayhan@abkod.com, Beau Hartshorne , kevin@electricdiary.com, sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, vranganathan@gmail.com, Damien Benoit , mt@hush.ai Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Chatr 0.5 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:21:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3490 Lines: 81 ------=_Part_5135_6210450.1137187258553 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi all. I never really noticed that Chatr didn't work in ie or opera until I visited Damien's and he had something about that. So I made some quick changs to the .4 javascript file and it works in all 3 now. I haven't looked at .5 code yet. You can look at the changed code here http://zerovektor.com/chat/chatclient.js . My Chatr is based on David's, but coded in C, so it is missing some things. Joe On 1/13/06, Damien Lee Benoit wrote: > > Sweet, Everyone else should share links to their chat versions so we can > pop > in and out from time to time. > > Mine is at http://chatr.337studios.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Sterry [mailto:david@sterryit.com] > Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:32 AM > To: ayhan@abkod.com; kevin@electricdiary.com; Damien Benoit; mt@hush.ai; > Beau Hartshorne; Joseph Payne; vranganathan@gmail.com; > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Subject: Chatr 0.5 > > Hello everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know I just released version 0.5 of Chatr > with smilies, better language support, and easier installation. You can > check it out at http://www.sterryit.com/chat > > Thanks, > > Dave > > ------=_Part_5135_6210450.1137187258553 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi all.  I never really noticed that Chatr didn't work in ie or opera = until I visited Damien's and he had something about that.  So I made s= ome quick changs to the .4 javascript file and it works in all 3 now. = I haven't looked at .5 code yet.  You can look at the changed code he= re=20 http://zerovektor.com/= chat/chatclient.js .  My Chatr is based on David's, but coded in C= , so it is missing some things.

Joe

On 1/13/06, Damien Lee Benoit <emailme@337studios.com> wrote:
Sweet, Everyone else should share links to their chat versions so we can po= p
in and out from time to time.

Mine is at http://chatr.337studios.com

-----Original Mess= age-----
From: David Sterry [mailto:david@= sterryit.com]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 3:32 AM
To: ayhan@abkod.com; kevin@electricdiary.com; Damien Benoit; m= t@hush.ai;
Beau Hartshorne; Joseph Payne; vranganathan@gmail.com; sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
Subject: Chatr 0.5

Hello everyone,
<= br>Just a quick note to let you know I just released version 0.5 of Chatrwith smilies, better language support, and easier installation. You can
check it out at http://www.ste= rryit.com/chat

Thanks,

Dave

------=_Part_5135_6210450.1137187258553-- From jim@well.com Sat Jan 14 08:51:48 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:33269) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Exocz-00032P-M7 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:51:47 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0EGpeG9008492 for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:51:41 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <5D07DC42-851E-11DA-B56D-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:54:01 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1241/Sat Jan 14 02:00:03 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting at Javacat Monday 6:00 PM X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:51:48 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 123 Lines: 6 Here comes the third Monday of the month: sf-lug at Javacat, on Geary at 20th, 6:00 to 8:00 (Javacat is nice and warm). From johnlowry@gmail.com Mon Jan 16 20:37:53 2006 Received: from uproxy.gmail.com ([66.249.92.195]:16847) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EyibM-0007zN-Dk for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:52 -0800 Received: by uproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id u40so911109ugc for ; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:42 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=tkChY+XQcCQh+n42QMrCJS4koiODuFqBEOROFirlxsNgABn+XjjvuXzOkuGqqmJ9BZ8hyohc2PdbKV4/ENCWyyr9OYAvceNgy5IV9VK8YND6DOb05sTamNjt32phgMg3qU6hSTPt4aOOEb2p5d2aaQB9aD5ciDwX7K20Z4S28LE= Received: by 10.49.54.3 with SMTP id g3mr308644nfk; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.254.12 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:42 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610601162037p68a4f1c4t216e7219601762de@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:37:42 -0800 From: John Lowry To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 66.249.92.195 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.249.92.195 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5831_3964604.1137472662620" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Found a book X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 04:37:53 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 805 Lines: 26 ------=_Part_5831_3964604.1137472662620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline There was a book left at the LUG meeting. I have it if you are missing "Teach yourself Unix in 24 Hours" by Dave Taylor. Email me to figure out ho= w I am going to get it back to you. -- John Lowry ------=_Part_5831_3964604.1137472662620 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline There was a book left at the LUG meeting. I have it if you are missing &quo= t;Teach yourself Unix in 24 Hours" by Dave Taylor. Email me to figure = out how I am going to get it back to you.

--
John = Lowry

------=_Part_5831_3964604.1137472662620-- From jim@well.com Thu Jan 19 12:18:17 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:52609) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EzgEM-0007Ue-Dx for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:18:16 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0JKHtHL011895; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:17:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net> References: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:20:19 -0800 To: geoff@stumbleupon.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8-481029951 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:18:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2977 Lines: 111 --Apple-Mail-8-481029951 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. I believe I can get this from Spidertools. You can, too, but I buy from them regularly and now get a bit of a discount: I can sell them to you for about the list price, you save the shipping costs (e.g. Debian sarge is probably $5, shipping is probably $3; I sell them to you for my cost, which is probably $4 plus shipping which is the fraction of $3 to $5 shipping--i.e. you get 'em for $5 instead of $8). You want me to get 'em for you? Lemme know (I've got an order in as it is). Note: I make a point of making no profit on SpiderTools stuff ( http://www.spidertools.com ). (from the Debian.org web site: 'The current =93stable=94 distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 3.1r1, codenamed sarge. It was released on December 20th, 2005.') On Jan 19, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Geoff Smith wrote: > Hi, I've got a question for SF-LUG, although you may be able to answer=20= > it yourself.=A0 Do you know where to pick up a Debian Sarge CD in San=20= > Francisco?=A0 You'd=A0 think there would be some technical bookstore=20= > somewhere in the city that sells it but I've had no luck so far. > > Thanks, > > Geoff Smith --Apple-Mail-8-481029951 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and=20 buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too.=20 I believe I can get this from Spidertools. You can, too,=20 but I buy from them regularly and now get a bit of a=20 discount: I can sell them to you for about the list price,=20 you save the shipping costs (e.g. Debian sarge is=20 probably $5, shipping is probably $3; I sell them to you=20 for my cost, which is probably $4 plus shipping which=20 is the fraction of $3 to $5 shipping--i.e. you get 'em for=20 $5 instead of $8).=20 You want me to get 'em for you? Lemme know (I've=20 got an order in as it is). Note: I make a point of making=20 no profit on SpiderTools stuff=20 ( http://www.spidertools.com ).=20 (from the Debian.org web site: 'The current =93stable=94=20 distribution of Debian GNU/Linux is version 3.1r1,=20 codenamed sarge. It was released on December=20 20th, 2005.')=20 On Jan 19, 2006, at 11:30 AM, Geoff Smith wrote: ArialHi, I've got a question for SF-LUG, although you may be able to answer it yourself.=A0 Do you know where to pick up a Debian Sarge CD in San Francisco?=A0 You'd=A0 think there would be some technical bookstore somewhere in the city that sells it but I've had no luck so far. ArialThanks, ArialGeoff Smith = --Apple-Mail-8-481029951-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Jan 19 14:09:19 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ezhy2-0008I0-O9 by authid for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:09:18 -0800 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:09:18 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD Message-ID: <20060119220917.GD30095@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060119113044.514555C6@dm21.mta.everyone.net> <0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0306B643-8929-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:09:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1030 Lines: 23 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and > buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch) Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 CDs or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, why not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, amd64, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. amd64 was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) From jim@well.com Thu Jan 19 14:20:57 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:36287) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ezi91-0008Ks-DG for ; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:20:56 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0JMKboV016531; Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:20:37 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: geoff@stumbleupon.com Message-Id: <2756303A-893A-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-10-488392314 Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 22:20:57 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3677 Lines: 144 --Apple-Mail-10-488392314 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below). (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through downloading. For most people, I'd say listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty old jim.) Begin forwarded message: > From: Rick Moen > Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST > To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD > > Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > >> Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and >> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. > > Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so > download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 > > See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ > (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch) > > Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there > doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 > CDs > or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be > replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, why > not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? > > (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, amd64, > arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. amd64 > was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are > official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > --Apple-Mail-10-488392314 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below). (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through downloading. For most people, I'd say listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty old jim.) Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Rick Moen < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch) Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 CDs or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, why not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, amd64, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. amd64 was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-10-488392314-- From jim@well.com Fri Jan 20 08:34:49 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:43915) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1EzzD3-00077M-Qc for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:34:48 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0KGXsBw025171 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:33:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:36:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-13-553982921 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [PenLUG] linux, c, apache job X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:34:50 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3261 Lines: 142 --Apple-Mail-13-553982921 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: "Kevin Pierpoint" > Date: January 19, 2006 6:54:11 PM PST > To: > Subject: [PenLUG] linux, c, apache job > Reply-To: Kevin Pierpoint > > I have a client looking for the following: > > My client needs someone with experience developing apache C modules on=20= > Linux. This is more of a 'systems-level' developer (i.e. not=20 > application level at all). Looking for someone to push the existing=20 > server to as much performance as possible. Having experience with=20 > TCP/IP and HTTP protocol is required. Experience in reading and=20 > understanding RFC highly desirable, but not necessarily required. > > This is a contract to hire situation..... > > Let me know if you know anyone who could do this! > > Thanks! > > > _______________________________________ > > Kevin D. Pierpoint Branch Manager/Technical Recruiter > Oxford & Associates > 1230 Oakmead Parkway, Suite 204 > Sunnyvale, CA 94085 > Tel: (408) 245-3915 x111 > Fax: (408) 245-3977 > E-mail: kevin_pierpoint@oxfordcorp.com > Website: www.oxfordcorp.com > "The Right Talent. Right Now.=AE" > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PenLUG-Members mailing list > PenLUG-Members@penlug.org > http://jeffk.com/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members > --Apple-Mail-13-553982921 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Kevin Pierpoint" < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 19, 2006 6:54:11 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: < 0000,0000,0000Subject: [PenLUG] linux, c, apache job 0000,0000,0000Reply-To: Kevin Pierpoint < I have a client looking for the following: My client needs someone with experience developing apache C modules on Linux. This is more of a 'systems-level' developer (i.e. not application level at all). Looking for someone to push the existing server to as much performance as possible. Having experience with TCP/IP and HTTP protocol is required. Experience in reading and understanding RFC highly desirable, but not necessarily required. This is a contract to hire situation..... Let me know if you know anyone who could do this! Thanks! _______________________________________ Kevin D. Pierpoint Branch Manager/Technical Recruiter=20 Oxford & Associates=20 1230 Oakmead Parkway, Suite 204 Sunnyvale, CA 94085 Tel: (408) 245-3915 x111 Fax: (408) 245-3977 E-mail: kevin_pierpoint@oxfordcorp.com=20 Website: www.oxfordcorp.com "The Right Talent. Right Now.=AE" _______________________________________________ PenLUG-Members mailing list PenLUG-Members@penlug.org http://jeffk.com/mailman/listinfo/penlug-members = --Apple-Mail-13-553982921-- From jim@well.com Fri Jan 20 08:24:51 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42704) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1Ezz2I-00073w-7p for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:24:50 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0KGMiv2019820 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:22:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <4EB4041A-89D1-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:25:02 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-12-553312367 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:38:29 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 9 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 16:24:51 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 56249 Lines: 1897 --Apple-Mail-12-553312367 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed This slipped by me for a week or so. Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: January 9, 2006 12:42:13 PM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 9 > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders > January 9, 2006 > ================================================================ > -"PHP Hacks" Author Available to Speak to SF Bay Area Groups > -New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book > -New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book > -Promotional Material Available > -Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book Info > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Review Books are Available > Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- > send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on > your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. > Allow at least four weeks for shipping. > > > ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews > Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. > For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: > > > > ***Discount Information > Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on > O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, > SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG. > > > ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available > Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in > touch with our sales department. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > General News or Inquiries > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Jack Herrington, author of "PHP Hacks," is available to speak with > Northern California groups. Let me know if you are interested. > > > ***New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the > O'Reilly book of your choice. > > ETech Banners: > > > > ***New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book > of your choice. > > MySQL Users Conference: > > > > ***Promotional Material Available: > The following items are available for your next meeting. Let me know > the > item and the amount you'd like: > > -MAKE Magazine Volume 4 > -O'Reilly Catalog > -30% UG Discount bookmarks > -ETech Conference brochures > -ETel Conference brochures > > > ***Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups > Give your members access to content from Safari's thousands of > technology books right on your site and raise money for your > user group at the same time. Use custom designed search boxes, > show the latest releases, or display your favorite book cover > with our easy to use tools. > > For more information and to sign up for the Safari Affiliate > Program, go to: > > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly News for User Group Members > January 9, 2006 > ================================================================ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Information Dashboard Design > -Understanding Linux Network Internals > -QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual > -Google Maps Hacks > -AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition > -Window Seat > -Active Directory, Third Edition > -Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook > -Google Advertising Tools > -RFID Essentials > -We the Media > -PSP Hacks > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Upcoming Events > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9 > -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, New Haven, CT--February 16 > -Photo Marketing Association International Convention > and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Conference News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -MySQL Registration is Open > -ETech Registration is Open > -40% discount for ETel--Early Registration Pricing Ends January 9 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005 > -IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet > -MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner > -Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain) > -Top 7 PHP Security Blunders > -Inside NetBSD's CGD > -O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF > -The Power of mdfind > -Mac Users and the Macs They Use > -Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System > -Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids > -10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site > -Web 2.0 Connectedness > -Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real > Application Clusters > -Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1 > Introduction to Camera Raw > -Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches > -Calling all Digital Crafters! > -MAKE Forums > ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> From Your Peers > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12 > > ================================================ > Book News > ================================================ > Did you know you can request a free book to review for your > group? Ask your group leader for more information. > > For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: > > > Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, > Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress > book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. > Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. > > > ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at > least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer > applies to US delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. > For more details, go to: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > New Releases > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Information Dashboard Design > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100167 > Dashboards have become popular in recent years as uniquely powerful > tools for communicating important information at a glance. This book > will teach you the visual design skills you need to create dashboards > that communicate clearly, rapidly, and compellingly. The greatest > display technology in the world won't solve this if you fail to use > effective visual design. And if a dashboard fails to tell you precisely > what you need to know in an instant, you'll never use it, even if it's > filled with cute gauges, meters, and traffic lights. Don't let your > investment in dashboard technology go to waste. > > > > ***Understanding Linux Network Internals > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596002556 > A no-nonsense guide to Linux networking, "Understanding Linux Network > Internals" offers a clear view of the underlying concepts and teaches > you > to follow the C code that implements it. Topics include system > initialization, network interface card (NIC) device drivers, bridging, > routing, ICMP, and more. > > > > ***QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual > Publisher:O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101848 > If your company is ready to minimize paperwork and maximize > productivity, control spending and boost sales, QuickBooks 2006 can > help > you make it happen--but only if you know how to use it. And it doesn't > come with a manual. Lucky for you, there's "QuickBooks 2006: The > Missing > Manual," the comprehensive, up-to-date guide to saving time and money > while beefing up business with QuickBooks. > > > > ***Google Maps Hacks > Publisher:O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101619 > The nearest pizza, the cheapest gas, the best meeting place for a > group--"Google Maps Hacks" shows you creative ways to add to and > customize > the satellite images and underlying API of Google Maps for applications > serendipitous or serious. Written by Schuyler Erle and Rich Gibson > (with > a foreword by Google Maps tech leads, Jens and Lars Rasmussen), Google > Maps Hacks shares dozens of tricks for combining the capabilities of > Google's Keyhole map feature with your own datasets, so you can create > interactive maps for unlimited personal and commercial applications. > > > > ***AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition > Publisher:O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102119 > Fully revised and updated--and with more and better examples than > ever--this new edition of the top-selling "AppleScript: The Definitive > Guide" shows anyone how to use AppleScript to make your Mac time more > efficient and more enjoyable by automating repetitive tasks, > customizing > applications, and even controlling complex workflows. It's perfect for > novices, developers, and everyone in between who wants to know how, > where, and why to use AppleScript. > > > > ***Window Seat > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100833 > "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" is > a > complete view of a creative project from the artist's perspective. > Julieanne Kost, a Photoshop and creative thinking guru, has taken her > own experience shooting images out of airplane windows to create a > unique seminar in three parts: a manifesto of ways to stay creatively > alive; a portfolio of stunning photographs, with commentaries > describing > her experiences and thought process; and a technical appendix that > includes the details of the images were shot, manipulated, and prepared > for printing. > > > A sample excerpt, "The Art of Creative Thinking," is availble online: > > > > ***Active Directory, Third Edition > ISBN: 0596101732 > Fully updated to cover Active Directory for Windows Server 2003 SP1 and > R2, this third edition is full of important updates and corrections. > Discover how to design, manage, and maintain a small, medium, or > enterprise Active Directory infrastructure. It's perfect for all Active > Directory administrators, whether you manage a single server or a > global > multinational with thousands of servers. > > > > ***Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596008791 > This quick, look-up reference is perfect for anyone in the science and > engineering community who wants to improve upon their Excel skills. > You'll learn how to leverage Excel to perform both routine and complex > calculations, and then visualize the results for presentation. Features > practical data analysis techniques and real-world examples from a range > of scientific disciplines. > > > Chapter 9, "Solving Equations," is available online: > > > > ***Google Advertising Tools > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101082 > This comprehensive guide takes a close look at advertising on the > web--how it works and how Google's advertising programs can turn your > site into a money-maker. Tasks include delivering image ads precisely > targeted to your site, and generating text ads that accompany specific > search term results. After reading this book, you'll know Google's > AdSense and AdWords services inside and out. > > > > ***RFID Essentials > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596009445 > Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) is rapidly changing the way > businesses track inventory and assets. From Walmart and Tesco, to the > U.S. Department of Defense, early efforts are already showing benefits, > but software, integration, and data processing for RFID still present a > challenge. If you are a developer or an architect charged with > developing an RFID system, this book is for you. > > > > ***We the Media > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102275 > In "We the Media," nationally acclaimed newspaper columnist and blogger > Dan Gillmor shows how anyone can produce the news, using personal > blogs, > Internet chat groups, email, and a host of other tools. He tells the > story of this emerging phenomenon and sheds light on this deep shift in > how we make and consume the news. Journalism in the 21st century will > be fundamentally different from the Big Media oligarchy that prevails > today. "We the Media" casts light on the future of journalism, and > invites us all to be part of it. > > > > ***PSP Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101430 > "PSP Hacks" shows you how to make the versatile and powerful new > PlayStation Portable (PSP) do more than you ever imagined--and more > than > Sony ever intended--with 50 innovative hacks, tweaks, tricks, and > how-tos for customizing your PSP and taking full advantage of features, > capabilities, and functionality far beyond what's listed in the PSP > user > manual. > > > ================================================ > Upcoming Events > ================================================ > ***For more events, please see: > http://events.oreilly.com/ > > ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9 > Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for > Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital > Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. > digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash> > > > ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar,New Haven, CT--February 16 > Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for > Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital > Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. > digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash> > > > ***Photo Marketing Association International Convention > and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--Febuary 26-March 1 > Stop by our booth( #2117) to check out our new titles. Orange County > Convention Center West. > > > ================================================ > Conference News > ================================================ > ***MySQL Users Conference Registration in Open > Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest > gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event > where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over > 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one > roof. > > MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 > Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA > > > User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > > ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference > We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and > the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth > continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and > content > keeps streaming from the firehose. How do we visualize all of this > digital > data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? The coming > technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we have > more > than enough already. It's time to do something with that data. It's > time > to build The Attention Economy. > > O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006 > Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA > > > User Group members who register before January 16, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > > ***New 40% discount for ETel > Join us on January 24-26 in San Francisco when telephony's key figures, > like Jim Van Meggelen, Peter Cochrane, Mark Spencer, Norman Lewis, and > Clay Shirkey, convene to provide a high-level perspective of the future > of telephony. And as a special offer to our friends, save an additional > 40% when you register using code etel06lms. > > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > ================================================ > News From O'Reilly & Beyond > ================================================ > --------------------- > General News > --------------------- > ***O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005 > "Head First Java," "Mac OS X: The Missing Manual," and MAKE magazine > were voted Best of 2005 in the Computers & Internet category of both > the > Editors' Picks and the Top 10 Customers' Favorites lists. In addition, > "iLife: The Missing Manual," "Mapping Hacks," and "Revolution in the > Valley" were all chosen as Editors' Picks in the Digital Life category. > Thanks! > ref%3Dgw%5Fbr%5Fbb05/102-5317297-3006519> > > > ***IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet > Developers now have the right tools and the right motivation to build a > wide range of new desktop applications, telephone services, and > corporate phone systems that integrate voice with the Web, IM, WiFi, > and > more. Ed Stephenson talks with program cochair Surj Patel about what's > emerging in telephony, and what you can expect to learn at O'Reilly's > upcoming Emerging Telephony Conference. > aint-seen-nothin-yet.html> > > > ***MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner > Didn't get what you wanted for the holidays? Need to get rid of what > you > did get? Or maybe you just are looking to get a great deal on anything? > Nancy Conner, the author of "eBay: The Missing Manual" talks about > getting the most out of the online auction service. Tips for both > novice > and experienced users cover the many types of auctions on eBay, basic > and advanced bidding and sales techniques and ways to protect yourself > when buying and selling. Want to know how to snipe auctions? What all > those eBay ratings mean? Nancy covers all this and more. > > > --------------------- > Open Source > --------------------- > ***Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain) > One of the great things about the games of yore is that they tended to > be pretty simple, and as Josh Glover explains, Pong is one of the > simplest to implement. In this first article of a three-part series, > Josh shows you how to clone Pong all by yourself. > using-sdl.html> > > > ***Top 7 PHP Security Blunders > PHP's availability, ease of use, and support makes it the first choice > for many budding developers. Yet the potential for the unwary coder to > overlook certain key aspects of security lands countless developers in > hot water. Pax explores the key security holes, common issues, and > typical oversights in this hands-on primer. > > > > ***Inside NetBSD's CGD > Security-minded laptop users live in fear of theft, not only of their > computer, but also of their precious secret data. NetBSD's CGD project > is > a cryptographic virtual disk that can protect sensitive data while > acting like a normal filesystem. Federico Biancuzzi recently > interviewed > its author, Roland Dowdeswell, on the goals and implementation of the > system. > > > --------------------- > Mac > --------------------- > ***O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF > Macworld SF 2006 is shaping up to be a busy show for O'Reilly Media. We > have great specials, lots of books, a full speaker lineup, and a menu > of > activities. Here's a comprehensive overview. > > > > ***The Power of mdfind > In addition to the little blue magnifying glass in the upper-right > corner of your desktop, Tiger provides the mdfind and mdls commands for > searching. Andy Lester discovered them while working on his updates to > "Mac OS X Tiger In A Nutshell." Essentially, they provide the power of > Spotlight in the Unix shell. Here's how it works. > > > > ***Mac Users and the Macs They Use > When you read the articles and weblog posts by prominent Mac users and > Mac pundits, do you ever find yourself wondering what kind of computer > setup they're using? Giles Turnbull does. He recently contacted a spat > of Mac professionals and asked them what they depend on. Here's what > they had to say. > macs-they-use.html> > > --------------------- > Windows/.NET > --------------------- > ***Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System > Unit testing is one of the tasks that every programmer worth their salt > needs to do. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how to use the new Unit Testing > feature of Visual Studio 2005 Team System to auto-generate the code > needed to test your application. > testing-in-visual-studio-2005-team-system.html> > > > ***Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids > One of Jesse Liberty's clients has a problem: she has a database with 2 > million records and wants to display these records in a data grid, but > does not want to load them all into memory from the database. She wants > them loaded "just in time." Jesse shows how to use the new DataGridView > to neatly solve the problem. > time-data-loading-for-datagrids.html> > > --------------------- > Web > --------------------- > ***10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site > If you're about to launch into the world of ecommerce, or want to boost > an existing site's revenue in the coming months, this article is for > you. Jason's tongue-in-cheek advice will help you hone your approach to > ecommerce, boost customer satisfaction, and your bottom line! > > > > ***Web 2.0 Connectedness > Kevin Yank urges Web 2.0 Developers to stop creating the next killer > app, and instead think of ways to improve on what's already out there. > > > --------------------- > Java > --------------------- > ***Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real > Application Clusters > Maintaining transaction integrity, and rolling back failed steps, > becomes more difficult on a cluster. One option is to move some of the > load balancing decisions to your code, and account for which cluster > nodes you're using. Sachin Shetty shows how this works in the context > of > an Oracle Real Application Cluster. > transactions-with-oracle-rac.html> > > > ***Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1 > Maven's not just about building; it's about viewing, understanding, and > managing your projects. In this first part of a two-part excerpt from > "Maven: A Developer's Notebook," authors Vincent Massol and Timothy M. > O'Brien introduce Maven's reporting features for issue tracking, > dependencies, code style, and more. > > > --------------------- > Digital Media > --------------------- > ***Introduction to Camera Raw > Adobe's Camera Raw is arguably the most popular RAW-format converter > available today. In this video, Deke McClelland introduces you to this > tool and shows you tips for making image adjustments. > > > > ***Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches > Dixie Dregs co-founder Andy West discovered that virtuosity can be a > liability in the music world, but a benefit in technology. Now this > four-time Grammy nominee programs computers by day and pursues his > amazing music at night, drawing the best from both disciplines. Here's > how. > software.html> > > --------------------- > MAKE > --------------------- > ***Calling all Digital Crafters! > Do you like to knit robots? Do you make jewelry out of old computer > parts? Share your crafty projects with us and you may see them on the > MAKE: Blog. > > > ***MAKE Forums > MAKE now has forums They're just getting started, but feel free to go > over and check them out. > . > > ***Meet Your Fellow Makers > Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings: > > > ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: > > > ================================================ >> From Your Peers > ================================================ > ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12 > The fourth annual Southern California Linux Expo will be held February > 11-12, 2006. SCALE continues to grow year after year, and increasingly > attracts the movers & shakers in Open Source software. SCALE is > not strictly a commercial Expo; its primary focus is and always has > been education. Expo booths are provided not only for commercial > exhibitors, but also for non-profit organizations. On the commercial > side, exhibitors include IBM, Google, Ticketmaster, Tolis Group, and > Centrify. On the non-profit side, Ubuntu, KDE, Debian, and NetBSD are > among the many groups that will be manning booths. Speakers include > Chris Dibona, John Terpstra, Aaron Seigo, and Hans Reiser. > > For 35% off Expo admission use the promo code ORELY at: > > > > ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user > groups around the globe are up to: > > > Until next time-- > > Marsee Henon > > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > ================================================================ > --Apple-Mail-12-553312367 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII This slipped by me for a week or so. Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 9, 2006 12:42:13 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, January 9 ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders January 9, 2006 ================================================================ -"PHP Hacks" Author Available to Speak to SF Bay Area Groups -New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book -New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available -Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review Books are Available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: < ***Discount Information Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG. ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in touch with our sales department. ---------------------------------------------------------------- General News or Inquiries ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Jack Herrington, author of "PHP Hacks," is available to speak with Northern California groups. Let me know if you are interested. ***New--Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. ETech Banners: < ***New--Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. MySQL Users Conference: < ***Promotional Material Available: The following items are available for your next meeting. Let me know the item and the amount you'd like: -MAKE Magazine Volume 4 -O'Reilly Catalog -30% UG Discount bookmarks -ETech Conference brochures < -ETel Conference brochures < ***Safari Affiliate Program for User Groups Give your members access to content from Safari's thousands of technology books right on your site and raise money for your user group at the same time. Use custom designed search boxes, show the latest releases, or display your favorite book cover with our easy to use tools. For more information and to sign up for the Safari Affiliate Program, go to: < ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members January 9, 2006 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Information Dashboard Design -Understanding Linux Network Internals -QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual -Google Maps Hacks -AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition -Window Seat -Active Directory, Third Edition -Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook -Google Advertising Tools -RFID Essentials -We the Media -PSP Hacks ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9 -Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, New Haven, CT--February 16 -Photo Marketing Association International Convention and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -MySQL Registration is Open -ETech Registration is Open -40% discount for ETel--Early Registration Pricing Ends January 9 ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005 -IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet -MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner -Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain) -Top 7 PHP Security Blunders -Inside NetBSD's CGD -O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF -The Power of mdfind -Mac Users and the Macs They Use -Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System -Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids -10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site -Web 2.0 Connectedness -Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real Application Clusters -Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1 Introduction to Camera Raw -Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches -Calling all Digital Crafters! -MAKE Forums ---------------------------------------------------------------- From Your Peers ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12 ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: < Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. < ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer applies to US delivery addresses in the 50 states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: < ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Information Dashboard Design Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100167 Dashboards have become popular in recent years as uniquely powerful tools for communicating important information at a glance. This book will teach you the visual design skills you need to create dashboards that communicate clearly, rapidly, and compellingly. The greatest display technology in the world won't solve this if you fail to use effective visual design. And if a dashboard fails to tell you precisely what you need to know in an instant, you'll never use it, even if it's filled with cute gauges, meters, and traffic lights. Don't let your investment in dashboard technology go to waste. < ***Understanding Linux Network Internals Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596002556 A no-nonsense guide to Linux networking, "Understanding Linux Network Internals" offers a clear view of the underlying concepts and teaches you to follow the C code that implements it. Topics include system initialization, network interface card (NIC) device drivers, bridging, routing, ICMP, and more. < ***QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual Publisher:O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101848 If your company is ready to minimize paperwork and maximize productivity, control spending and boost sales, QuickBooks 2006 can help you make it happen--but only if you know how to use it. And it doesn't come with a manual. Lucky for you, there's "QuickBooks 2006: The Missing Manual," the comprehensive, up-to-date guide to saving time and money while beefing up business with QuickBooks. < ***Google Maps Hacks Publisher:O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101619 The nearest pizza, the cheapest gas, the best meeting place for a group--"Google Maps Hacks" shows you creative ways to add to and customize the satellite images and underlying API of Google Maps for applications serendipitous or serious. Written by Schuyler Erle and Rich Gibson (with a foreword by Google Maps tech leads, Jens and Lars Rasmussen), Google Maps Hacks shares dozens of tricks for combining the capabilities of Google's Keyhole map feature with your own datasets, so you can create interactive maps for unlimited personal and commercial applications. < ***AppleScript: The Definitive Guide, Second Edition Publisher:O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102119 Fully revised and updated--and with more and better examples than ever--this new edition of the top-selling "AppleScript: The Definitive Guide" shows anyone how to use AppleScript to make your Mac time more efficient and more enjoyable by automating repetitive tasks, customizing applications, and even controlling complex workflows. It's perfect for novices, developers, and everyone in between who wants to know how, where, and why to use AppleScript. < ***Window Seat Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100833 "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" is a complete view of a creative project from the artist's perspective. Julieanne Kost, a Photoshop and creative thinking guru, has taken her own experience shooting images out of airplane windows to create a unique seminar in three parts: a manifesto of ways to stay creatively alive; a portfolio of stunning photographs, with commentaries describing her experiences and thought process; and a technical appendix that includes the details of the images were shot, manipulated, and prepared for printing. < A sample excerpt, "The Art of Creative Thinking," is availble online: < ***Active Directory, Third Edition ISBN: 0596101732 Fully updated to cover Active Directory for Windows Server 2003 SP1 and R2, this third edition is full of important updates and corrections. Discover how to design, manage, and maintain a small, medium, or enterprise Active Directory infrastructure. It's perfect for all Active Directory administrators, whether you manage a single server or a global multinational with thousands of servers. < ***Excel Scientific and Engineering Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008791 This quick, look-up reference is perfect for anyone in the science and engineering community who wants to improve upon their Excel skills. You'll learn how to leverage Excel to perform both routine and complex calculations, and then visualize the results for presentation. Features practical data analysis techniques and real-world examples from a range of scientific disciplines. < Chapter 9, "Solving Equations," is available online: < ***Google Advertising Tools Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101082 This comprehensive guide takes a close look at advertising on the web--how it works and how Google's advertising programs can turn your site into a money-maker. Tasks include delivering image ads precisely targeted to your site, and generating text ads that accompany specific search term results. After reading this book, you'll know Google's AdSense and AdWords services inside and out. < ***RFID Essentials Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596009445 Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) is rapidly changing the way businesses track inventory and assets. From Walmart and Tesco, to the U.S. Department of Defense, early efforts are already showing benefits, but software, integration, and data processing for RFID still present a challenge. If you are a developer or an architect charged with developing an RFID system, this book is for you. < ***We the Media Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102275 In "We the Media," nationally acclaimed newspaper columnist and blogger Dan Gillmor shows how anyone can produce the news, using personal blogs, Internet chat groups, email, and a host of other tools. He tells the story of this emerging phenomenon and sheds light on this deep shift in how we make and consume the news. Journalism in the 21st century will be fundamentally different from the Big Media oligarchy that prevails today. "We the Media" casts light on the future of journalism, and invites us all to be part of it. < ***PSP Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101430 "PSP Hacks" shows you how to make the versatile and powerful new PlayStation Portable (PSP) do more than you ever imagined--and more than Sony ever intended--with 50 innovative hacks, tweaks, tricks, and how-tos for customizing your PSP and taking full advantage of features, capabilities, and functionality far beyond what's listed in the PSP user manual. < ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar, Montclair, NJ--February 9 Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. < ***Peter Krogh at ASMP PixelCash Seminar,New Haven, CT--February 16 Author Peter Krogh (The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers) gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. < ***Photo Marketing Association International Convention and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--Febuary 26-March 1 Stop by our booth( #2117) to check out our new titles. Orange County Convention Center West. < ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***MySQL Users Conference Registration in Open Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one roof. MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA < User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and content keeps streaming from the firehose. How do we visualize all of this digital data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? The coming technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we have more than enough already. It's time to do something with that data. It's time to build The Attention Economy. O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006 Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA < User Group members who register before January 16, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ***New 40% discount for ETel Join us on January 24-26 in San Francisco when telephony's key figures, like Jim Van Meggelen, Peter Cochrane, Mark Spencer, Norman Lewis, and Clay Shirkey, convene to provide a high-level perspective of the future of telephony. And as a special offer to our friends, save an additional 40% when you register using code etel06lms. < To register for the conference, go to: < ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***O'Reilly Books on Amazon's Best of 2005 "Head First Java," "Mac OS X: The Missing Manual," and MAKE magazine were voted Best of 2005 in the Computers & Internet category of both the Editors' Picks and the Top 10 Customers' Favorites lists. In addition, "iLife: The Missing Manual," "Mapping Hacks," and "Revolution in the Valley" were all chosen as Editors' Picks in the Digital Life category. Thanks! < ***IP Telephony: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet Developers now have the right tools and the right motivation to build a wide range of new desktop applications, telephone services, and corporate phone systems that integrate voice with the Web, IM, WiFi, and more. Ed Stephenson talks with program cochair Surj Patel about what's emerging in telephony, and what you can expect to learn at O'Reilly's upcoming Emerging Telephony Conference. < ***MacVoices #521: Getting the Most Out of eBay with Nancy Conner Didn't get what you wanted for the holidays? Need to get rid of what you did get? Or maybe you just are looking to get a great deal on anything? Nancy Conner, the author of "eBay: The Missing Manual" talks about getting the most out of the online auction service. Tips for both novice and experienced users cover the many types of auctions on eBay, basic and advanced bidding and sales techniques and ways to protect yourself when buying and selling. Want to know how to snipe auctions? What all those eBay ratings mean? Nancy covers all this and more. < --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Clone Pong, Using Only SDL (and Your Brain) One of the great things about the games of yore is that they tended to be pretty simple, and as Josh Glover explains, Pong is one of the simplest to implement. In this first article of a three-part series, Josh shows you how to clone Pong all by yourself. < ***Top 7 PHP Security Blunders PHP's availability, ease of use, and support makes it the first choice for many budding developers. Yet the potential for the unwary coder to overlook certain key aspects of security lands countless developers in hot water. Pax explores the key security holes, common issues, and typical oversights in this hands-on primer. < ***Inside NetBSD's CGD Security-minded laptop users live in fear of theft, not only of their computer, but also of their precious secret data. NetBSD's CGD project is a cryptographic virtual disk that can protect sensitive data while acting like a normal filesystem. Federico Biancuzzi recently interviewed its author, Roland Dowdeswell, on the goals and implementation of the system. < --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***O'Reilly Happenings at Macworld SF Macworld SF 2006 is shaping up to be a busy show for O'Reilly Media. We have great specials, lots of books, a full speaker lineup, and a menu of activities. Here's a comprehensive overview. < ***The Power of mdfind In addition to the little blue magnifying glass in the upper-right corner of your desktop, Tiger provides the mdfind and mdls commands for searching. Andy Lester discovered them while working on his updates to "Mac OS X Tiger In A Nutshell." Essentially, they provide the power of Spotlight in the Unix shell. Here's how it works. < ***Mac Users and the Macs They Use When you read the articles and weblog posts by prominent Mac users and Mac pundits, do you ever find yourself wondering what kind of computer setup they're using? Giles Turnbull does. He recently contacted a spat of Mac professionals and asked them what they depend on. Here's what they had to say. < --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005 Team System Unit testing is one of the tasks that every programmer worth their salt needs to do. Wei-Meng Lee shows you how to use the new Unit Testing feature of Visual Studio 2005 Team System to auto-generate the code needed to test your application. < ***Just-In-Time Data Loading For DataGrids One of Jesse Liberty's clients has a problem: she has a database with 2 million records and wants to display these records in a data grid, but does not want to load them all into memory from the database. She wants them loaded "just in time." Jesse shows how to use the new DataGridView to neatly solve the problem. < --------------------- Web --------------------- ***10 Easy Steps to a Horrible Ecommerce Site If you're about to launch into the world of ecommerce, or want to boost an existing site's revenue in the coming months, this article is for you. Jason's tongue-in-cheek advice will help you hone your approach to ecommerce, boost customer satisfaction, and your bottom line! < ***Web 2.0 Connectedness Kevin Yank urges Web 2.0 Developers to stop creating the next killer app, and instead think of ways to improve on what's already out there. < --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Using Global/Distributed Transactions in Java/JDBC with Oracle Real Application Clusters Maintaining transaction integrity, and rolling back failed steps, becomes more difficult on a cluster. One option is to move some of the load balancing decisions to your code, and account for which cluster nodes you're using. Sachin Shetty shows how this works in the context of an Oracle Real Application Cluster. < ***Maven Project Reporting and Publishing, Part 1 Maven's not just about building; it's about viewing, understanding, and managing your projects. In this first part of a two-part excerpt from "Maven: A Developer's Notebook," authors Vincent Massol and Timothy M. O'Brien introduce Maven's reporting features for issue tracking, dependencies, code style, and more. < --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Introduction to Camera Raw Adobe's Camera Raw is arguably the most popular RAW-format converter available today. In this video, Deke McClelland introduces you to this tool and shows you tips for making image adjustments. < ***Andy West: From Dregs to (Software) Riches Dixie Dregs co-founder Andy West discovered that virtuosity can be a liability in the music world, but a benefit in technology. Now this four-time Grammy nominee programs computers by day and pursues his amazing music at night, drawing the best from both disciplines. Here's how. < --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***Calling all Digital Crafters! Do you like to knit robots? Do you make jewelry out of old computer parts? Share your crafty projects with us and you may see them on the MAKE: Blog. < ***MAKE Forums MAKE now has forums They're just getting started, but feel free to go over and check them out. <. ***Meet Your Fellow Makers Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings: < ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: < ================================================ From Your Peers ================================================ ***SCALE 4X, Southern California Linux Expo, February 11-12 The fourth annual Southern California Linux Expo will be held February 11-12, 2006. SCALE continues to grow year after year, and increasingly attracts the movers & shakers in Open Source software. SCALE is not strictly a commercial Expo; its primary focus is and always has been education. Expo booths are provided not only for commercial exhibitors, but also for non-profit organizations. On the commercial side, exhibitors include IBM, Google, Ticketmaster, Tolis Group, and Centrify. On the non-profit side, Ubuntu, KDE, Debian, and NetBSD are among the many groups that will be manning booths. Speakers include Chris Dibona, John Terpstra, Aaron Seigo, and Hans Reiser. For 35% off Expo admission use the promo code ORELY at: < ***Don't forget to check out the O'Reilly UG wiki to see what user groups around the globe are up to: < Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ --Apple-Mail-12-553312367-- From jim@well.com Mon Jan 23 09:22:51 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:63765) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F15Oh-00010h-7v for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:22:50 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0NHMETh007434 for ; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:22:15 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <1EEAEA42-8C35-11DA-B0A7-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:24:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-816084194 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Balug-talk] How Hackers Collaborate: Monday (tonight!) in Palo Alto X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:22:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3904 Lines: 147 --Apple-Mail-1-816084194 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed anybody interested in going to this? tonight in palo alto. if i go i can provide rides to and from. Begin forwarded message: > From: Eugene Eric Kim > Date: January 23, 2006 12:18:08 AM PST > To: balug-talk@lists.balug.org > Subject: [Balug-talk] How Hackers Collaborate: Monday (tonight!) in > Palo Alto > > Tonight's SDForum Collaboration SIG meeting in Palo Alto is entitled, > "How Hackers Collaborate." We've got an excellent set of "panelists": > Lee Felsenstein, the legendary hacker and activist; Jim Warren, public > policy advocate and founder of many important tech magazines and > conferences; and David Weekly, an entrepreneur who organizes a monthly > Bay Area hacker gathering called SuperHappyDevHouse. > > I call them "panelists," because this won't be a traditional panel. > It will be highly participatory, an opportunity for you to share your > own stories and lessons about working with other hackers. > > The "panel" will be at the Pillsbury Winthrop law firm in Palo Alto, > from 6:30-9pm. The event is free for SDForum members, and costs $15 > for everyone else. Please come! It will be engaging, entertaining, > and educational. More info is at: > > http://collaborationsig.jot.com/WikiHome/EventArchives/ > HowHackersCollaborate > > -Eugene > > -- > +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ > ===+ > | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they > | > +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve Martin > ===========+ > _______________________________________________ > balug-talk mailing list > balug-talk@lists.balug.org > http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org > --Apple-Mail-1-816084194 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII anybody interested in going to this? tonight in palo alto. if i go i can provide rides to and from. Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Eugene Eric Kim < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 23, 2006 12:18:08 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: balug-talk@lists.balug.org 0000,0000,0000Subject: [Balug-talk] How Hackers Collaborate: Monday (tonight!) in Palo Alto Tonight's SDForum Collaboration SIG meeting in Palo Alto is entitled, "How Hackers Collaborate." We've got an excellent set of "panelists": Lee Felsenstein, the legendary hacker and activist; Jim Warren, public policy advocate and founder of many important tech magazines and conferences; and David Weekly, an entrepreneur who organizes a monthly Bay Area hacker gathering called SuperHappyDevHouse. I call them "panelists," because this won't be a traditional panel. It will be highly participatory, an opportunity for you to share your own stories and lessons about working with other hackers. The "panel" will be at the Pillsbury Winthrop law firm in Palo Alto, from 6:30-9pm. The event is free for SDForum members, and costs $15 for everyone else. Please come! It will be engaging, entertaining, and educational. More info is at: http://collaborationsig.jot.com/WikiHome/EventArchives/HowHackersCollaborate -Eugene -- +=== Eugene Eric Kim ===== eekim@eekim.com ===== http://www.eekim.com/ ===+ | "Writer's block is a fancy term made up by whiners so they | +===== can have an excuse to drink alcohol." --Steve Martin ===========+ _______________________________________________ balug-talk mailing list balug-talk@lists.balug.org http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org --Apple-Mail-1-816084194-- From jim@well.com Tue Jan 24 12:04:56 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42000) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F1UP8-0003K0-6H for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:04:55 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (adsl-71-141-21-74.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.21.74]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k0OK4XvR000223 for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:04:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:06:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1248/Tue Jan 24 02:54:38 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-3-912221275 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:04:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3862 Lines: 174 --Apple-Mail-3-912221275 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed This looks interesting to me, kind of an open-source approach to tech book publishing, getting users to criticize books before they're finally typeset and printed. check it out. Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: January 23, 2006 1:54:34 PM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology > > Hello, > > Can you please let your members know about the following news? > > O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called > Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge > technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to > purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. You'll even > have the chance to shape the final product by sending feedback to the > author and editors. The beta version just debuted with four > works-in-progress covering Ajax, Ruby, and Flickr. > For more information, go to: > http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/ > > Titles now available: > Ajax Hacks: Rough Cuts Version > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxhks/ > > Flickr Hacks: Rough Cuts Version > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flickrhks/ > > Ruby Cookbook: Rough Cuts Version > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/ > > Ruby on Rails: Up and Running: Rough Cuts Version > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyrails/ > > Rough Cuts FAQ > http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/faq.csp > > > Thanks! > > Marsee > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > ================================================================ > --Apple-Mail-3-912221275 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII This looks interesting to me, kind of an open-source approach to tech book publishing, getting users to criticize books before they're finally typeset and printed. check it out. Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: January 23, 2006 1:54:34 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: O'Reilly Gives Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology Hello, Can you please let your members know about the following news? O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. You'll even have the chance to shape the final product by sending feedback to the author and editors. The beta version just debuted with four works-in-progress covering Ajax, Ruby, and Flickr. For more information, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/ Titles now available: Ajax Hacks: Rough Cuts Version http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxhks/ Flickr Hacks: Rough Cuts Version http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/flickrhks/ Ruby Cookbook: Rough Cuts Version http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyckbk/ Ruby on Rails: Up and Running: Rough Cuts Version http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/rubyrails/ Rough Cuts FAQ http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/faq.csp Thanks! Marsee ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ --Apple-Mail-3-912221275-- From jim@well.com Wed Jan 25 09:22:44 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41262) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F1oLo-0003UG-P8 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:22:44 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (ppp-71-139-200-166.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.200.166]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0PHMTg4029117 for ; Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:22:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <7C655E05-8DC7-11DA-B0A7-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:24:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] possible python talk in March X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:22:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2692 Lines: 80 hiya, all: There's the possibility that we could get a Python (programming language) instructor to come hang out for the evening of March 20 (third Monday of the month, 6:00 PM till about 8:00 PM). If nobody objects, I'll have her show up at the Javacat on March 20. Python's a modern language with a lot of support in a lot of different directions: ----- Java-ite interests ------------- * http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/savikko.html Gang of Four patterns (singleton, etc.), should appeal to java-ites. * http://www.python.org/workshops/1997-10/proceedings/zukowski.html MVC design, interesting "undo" discussion -- more pattern stuff for java-ites. * http://www.python.org/pypi/epydoc/2.1 a la javadoc, an API documentation tool. * http://www.python.org/pypi/mpservlets/1.1.6 Mod_python servlet class handler. ----- Webby interests ---------------- * http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/papers/12/ Quixote Toolkit for web work: http request, response, session management... * http://www.python.org/workshops/1995-12/papers/shprentz.html creating HTML documents with Python, objects map to html document structure. * http://docs.python.org/lib/module-htmllib.html parser for HTML 2.0 * http://docs.python.org/lib/module-webbrowser.html module for html document. ----- General interests ------------------- * http://www.python.org/doc/2.3.5/lib/module-re.html this is about regular expressions: the claim is that python has similar capabilities to Perl, which should be interesting to both perlies and sysadms. * http://docs.python.org/modindex.html module index shows rich XML support. I was surprised at the amount of Macintosh ( Carbon.* ) support. There's lots of system support (sockets, heap, file*, gzip, commands, and more--impressive for sysadms), DOM, SAX, and SOAP support.... * http://www.python.org/pypi?:action=index Wow! A though Z never looked so good. wiki engines, bitTorrent, cryptography, bicycle repair, Bruce the presentation tool, IRC client, plenty of math, RSS toolkit, SOAP toolkit, python-extensible SQL db engine, blog server, application framework including CORBA and error handling and GUI support, 3-D graphic engine, support for various popular database engines, TeX formatter, (my favorite: a Python to Assembler translator), bluetooth support, grid networking support..., TONS MORE, what a fun list. * from the EETimes newsletter: "Scripting language takes silicon turn-- If you want an easy way to design chips, says consultant Jan Decaluwe, look no further than the Python scripting language. Python can be turned into a hardware description language (HDL) with the help of Decaluwe's open-source tool suite, MyHDL. From alamozzz@yahoo.com Thu Jan 26 20:40:21 2006 Received: from web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.117]:31921) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F2LP2-0000LH-Aj for ; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:40:20 -0800 Received: (qmail 32020 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jan 2006 04:11:48 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=0aUl6nSsa1TkdTFj69QTTYDioI3aalgsXgQRhw2o7mQklqPXBG1S9XOpsqpGi2uwCpTi9AnttANkCvZe4puxk++ZIfuioLv6Yci7wYt80xaI+dcWL8KFeNApSag6dgJbAWv9QBPbmDVVcBpwm1d9c52Z7UWHkF/dTcHPLWjcdm0= ; Message-ID: <20060127041148.32018.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.188.109.211] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:11:48 PST Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:11:48 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SF Linux Users Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.117 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1977591679-1138335108=:30138" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Kanotix 2005-4 is out and working very well. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 04:40:21 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2316 Lines: 30 --0-1977591679-1138335108=:30138 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kanotix 2005-4 was released December 31, for those who may have missed it. Rick probably remembers the recent problems I've had, first with SuSE 10, then several Debian-based distros (including Kanotix 2005-3.) So, I downloaded and installed Kanotix 2005-4, on my IBM Thinkpad 600X (500 Mhz Pentium III, 448 meg RAM) and it works great, no problems. Both the wireless and ethernet pcmcia cards work without it hitch. I quickly _apt-get upgraded_ and _apt-get installed_ a bunch of stuff. I upgraded to KDE 3.5. Now I can apt-get to my hearts' content. I still have SuSE 9.3 on the system, but haven't booted to it since, simply access files on the SuSE partition from Kanotix. I suspect the problems, which occured on my tower systems as well as the laptop, may have been kernel issues. Kanotix 2005-4 uses a 2.6.14 kernel. - Adrien --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. --0-1977591679-1138335108=:30138 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kanotix 2005-4 was released December 31, for those who may have missed it.

Rick probably remembers the recent problems I've had, first with SuSE 10, then several Debian-based distros (including Kanotix 2005-3.)

So, I downloaded and installed Kanotix 2005-4, on my IBM Thinkpad 600X (500 Mhz Pentium III, 448 meg RAM) and it works great, no problems. Both the wireless and ethernet pcmcia cards work without it hitch. I quickly _apt-get upgraded_ and _apt-get installed_ a bunch of stuff. I upgraded to KDE 3.5.

Now I can apt-get to my hearts' content. I still have SuSE 9.3 on the system, but haven't booted to it since, simply access files on the SuSE partition from Kanotix.

I suspect the problems, which occured on my tower systems as well as the laptop, may have been kernel issues. Kanotix 2005-4 uses a 2.6.14 kernel.

- Adrien

Do you Yahoo!?
With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. --0-1977591679-1138335108=:30138-- From jim@well.com Wed Feb 01 21:12:39 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:40139) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F4Wlo-000459-9Z for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:12:38 -0800 Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k125CSmn012559 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:12:28 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:14:51 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1266/Wed Feb 1 14:21:42 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Meeting at the Javacat Sunday 11:00-1:00 PM X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:12:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 139 Lines: 7 SF-LUG meeting Sunday, February 5: See you there, I hope. Javacat on Geary at 20th Avenue in San Francisco, from 11:00 AM till 1:00 PM. From jim@well.com Tue Feb 07 09:21:06 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:37049) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F6WVv-0005Oh-Cf for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:21:04 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k17HJY4U000179 for ; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:19:35 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <3DB87BD2-97FE-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:21:57 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1280/Tue Feb 7 02:11:53 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9--35556139 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:21:07 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7516 Lines: 313 --Apple-Mail-9--35556139 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed anybody want to make the trek? Begin forwarded message: > From: vincent polite > Date: February 5, 2006 9:09:08 PM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby=20= > Conference - Request for Proposals > > This sounds kind of interesting. > > nancy_tubbs@fullcalendar.com wrote: > To: > From: > Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:10:24 -0700 > Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby=20 > Conference - Request for Proposals > > Software Development Forum (SDForum) presents: > > Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals > > DEADLINE:=C2=A0 Proposals due Wednesday, February 15 (conference is = April > 22-23) > > MORE INFO: > Website: http://www.sdforum.org/rubyconference > Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 info@sdforum.org > Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0 408-414-5950 > > SDForum and Ruby Central are planning a two day conference (starting > Saturday, April 22 and ending Sunday, April 23) to explor! e all the=20= > facets > of Ruby and Ruby on Rails. Proposals are now being accepted.=C2=A0=20 > Deadline for > proposals is February 15, 2006. > > Program Overview > > In the last five years, software development has undergone a dramatic > shift away from statically-typed, compiled languages and towards more > dynamic languages like Perl, Python, and Ruby. > > In the past year Ruby on Rails- a framework for quickly building=20 > highly > interactive and robust web applications-has become the single most=20 > talked > about framework in software. Rails also features built-in support for > Ajax, which is the technology that provides the revolutionary rich=20 > user > experience behind Google Maps, A9 and Writely. > > If you're a software developer who's curious about the cutting edge=20= > and > wondering what the noise is all about, SDForum and Ruby Central=20 > invite you > to spend two days drinking from a ruby-colored firehose. > > > > > > Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event)=20 > (intro) (job) (tech) > More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post > Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or=20 > http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > Computer internet security > Computer internet business > Computer internet access > > Computer internet privacy securities > Computer internet help > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. > =C2=A0 > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email to: > =C2=A0new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > =C2=A0 > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to = the Yahoo! Terms of=20 > Service. > > > > > --Apple-Mail-9--35556139 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=UTF-8 anybody want to make the trek?=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: vincent polite < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 5, 2006 9:09:08 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim stockford < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals This sounds kind of interesting. nancy_tubbs@fullcalendar.com wrote: To: < From: < Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:10:24 -0700 Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/15, SDForum: Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals Software Development Forum (SDForum) presents: Silicon Valley Ruby Conference - Request for Proposals DEADLINE:=C2=A0 Proposals due Wednesday, February 15 (conference = is April 22-23) MORE INFO: Website: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sdforum.org/rubyconference<= /color> Email:=C2=A0=C2=A0 info@sdforum.org Phone:=C2=A0=C2=A0 408-414-5950 SDForum and Ruby Central are planning a two day conference (starting Saturday, April 22 and ending Sunday, April 23) to explor! e all the facets of Ruby and Ruby on Rails. Proposals are now being accepted.=C2=A0= Deadline for proposals is February 15, 2006. Program Overview In the last five years, software development has undergone a dramatic shift away from statically-typed, compiled languages and towards more dynamic languages like Perl, Python, and Ruby. In the past year Ruby on Rails- a framework for quickly building highly interactive and robust web applications-has become the single most talked about framework in software. Rails also features built-in support for Ajax, which is the technology that provides the revolutionary rich user experience behind Google Maps, A9 and Writely. If you're a software developer who's curious about the cutting edge and wondering what the noise is all about, SDForum and Ruby Central invite you to spend two days drinking from a ruby-colored firehose. =20 Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html=20 =20 9090,9090,9090SPONSORED LINKS9090,9090,9090 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet security=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet business=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet access=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet privacy securities=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet help=20 9090,9090,9090YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS9090,9090,9090 Lucida Grande=E2=96=AA = =C2=A0Visit your group "0000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow" on the web. =C2=A0=20 Lucida Grande=E2=96=AA = =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = =C2=A00000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow-unsubscribe@yah= oogroups.com =C2=A0=20 Lucida Grande=E2=96=AA = =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of Service.=20 =20 = --Apple-Mail-9--35556139-- From jim@well.com Tue Feb 07 09:22:08 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:37281) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F6WXK-0005Pr-Vw for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:22:08 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k17HLpat001285; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:21:52 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <20060129151644.2bbc6608@localhost.localdomain> References: <2756303A-893A-11DA-8F83-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060129151644.2bbc6608@localhost.localdomain> Message-Id: <8FFD4854-97FE-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:24:15 -0800 To: Geoff Smith , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1280/Tue Feb 7 02:11:53 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 17:22:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2121 Lines: 72 On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Geoff Smith wrote: > > for future reference, I ended up getting Debian Sarge by buying a > Debian book at border's books downtown. It's a good book too, so it's > a pretty decent way to get debian. > > Geoff. > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800 > jim stockford wrote: > >> >> Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below). >> >> (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through >> downloading. For most people, I'd say >> listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty >> old jim.) >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: Rick Moen >>> Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST >>> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD >>> >>> Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): >>> >>>> Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and >>>> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. >>> >>> Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so >>> download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 >>> >>> See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ >>> (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch) >>> >>> Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, >>> there >>> doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 >>> CDs >>> or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be >>> replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, >>> why >>> not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? >>> >>> (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, amd64, >>> arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. >>> amd64 >>> was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are >>> official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sf-lug mailing list >>> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>> > > > -- > Geoff Smith > President, Founder > http://www.stumbleupon.com/ > cell: 403.510.0224 > From jim@well.com Tue Feb 07 11:59:12 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:53316) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F6Yz7-0006K6-S9 for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:59:11 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k17JwEnc016954; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:58:43 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:01:10 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1280/Tue Feb 7 02:11:53 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-10--26003509 Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: Geoff Smith X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 19:59:13 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5826 Lines: 292 --Apple-Mail-10--26003509 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Here's the debian book title from Geoff. Begin forwarded message: > From: Geoff Smith > Date: February 7, 2006 11:18:17 AM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD > > > name of the book is: > > The Debian System: Concept and Techniques > > On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:24:15 -0800 > jim stockford wrote: > >> >> >> On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Geoff Smith wrote: >> >>> >>> for future reference, I ended up getting Debian Sarge by buying a >>> Debian book at border's books downtown. It's a good book too, so >>> it's >>> a pretty decent way to get debian. >>> >>> Geoff. >>> >>> On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800 >>> jim stockford wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below). >>>> >>>> (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through >>>> downloading. For most people, I'd say >>>> listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty >>>> old jim.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Begin forwarded message: >>>> >>>>> From: Rick Moen >>>>> Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST >>>>> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD >>>>> >>>>> Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): >>>>> >>>>>> Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and >>>>>> buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. >>>>> >>>>> Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so >>>>> download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 >>>>> >>>>> See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ >>>>> (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable >>>>> branch) >>>>> >>>>> Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, >>>>> there >>>>> doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading >>>>> 14 >>>>> CDs >>>>> or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be >>>>> replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, >>>>> why >>>>> not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? >>>>> >>>>> (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, >>>>> amd64, >>>>> arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. >>>>> amd64 >>>>> was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 >>>>> are >>>>> official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sf-lug mailing list >>>>> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >>>>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >>>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Geoff Smith >>> President, Founder >>> http://www.stumbleupon.com/ >>> cell: 403.510.0224 >>> >> > > > -- > Geoff Smith > President, CTO > http://www.stumbleupon.com/ > cell: 415.652.4430 > --Apple-Mail-10--26003509 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Here's the debian book title from Geoff. Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Geoff Smith < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 7, 2006 11:18:17 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim stockford < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD name of the book is: The Debian System: Concept and Techniques On Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:24:15 -0800 jim stockford < wrote: On Jan 29, 2006, at 3:16 PM, Geoff Smith wrote: for future reference, I ended up getting Debian Sarge by buying a Debian book at border's books downtown. It's a good book too, so it's a pretty decent way to get debian. Geoff. On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:02 -0800 jim stockford < wrote: Hey Geoff! Here's Rick's response (below). (I like buying CDs rather than suffer through downloading. For most people, I'd say listen to Rick rather than listen to crufty old jim.) Begin forwarded message: From: Rick Moen < Date: January 19, 2006 2:09:18 PM PST To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): Anybody know a store where Geoff can walk in and buy the latest Debian (Sarge)? I'd like to know, too. Why not get a "netinst" CD image for the cost of a mere 125MB or so download -- such as Kenshi Muto's: http://kmuto.jp/b.cgi/2005/11/26 See also: "Installers" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/ (page needs to be updated, now that 3.1 "sarge" is the stable branch) Given Internet access for package retrieval, in the general case, there doesn't seem a whole lot of point to either buying or downloading 14 CDs or 2 DVDs. You're not going to install most of that, and you'd be replacing a lot of it with updates from the Internet, anyway. So, why not start with 125MB of installation media, rather than 9GB? (By the way, Geoff forgot to specify the architecture: alpha, amd64, arm, hppa, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc. amd64 was unofficial as of the 3.1r0 and 3.1r1a releases; the other 11 are official. He _probably_ means either i386 or amd64.) _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug -- Geoff Smith President, Founder http://www.stumbleupon.com/ cell: 403.510.0224 -- Geoff Smith President, CTO http://www.stumbleupon.com/ cell: 415.652.4430 --Apple-Mail-10--26003509-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Tue Feb 07 12:36:41 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F6ZZo-0006hB-I7 by authid for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 12:36:40 -0800 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:36:39 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: Fwd: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Debian Sarge CD Message-ID: <20060207203639.GU28560@linuxmafia.com> References: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7B88622B-9814-11DA-A3B0-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 20:36:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 493 Lines: 16 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > Here's the debian book title from Geoff. _The Debian System: Concepts and Techniques_ by Martin Krafft has gotten admiring reviews, such as this one: http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20051031#bookreview It addresses one thing about Debian I've found maddening: You use the system for a few years and only belatedly notice entire very cool system features, without any real explantion or rationale. See also: http://debiansystem.info/ From jim@well.com Thu Feb 09 23:35:18 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:34747) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F7SoD-0003hv-Cd for ; Thu, 09 Feb 2006 23:35:17 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1A7Z7Gf010924 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:35:07 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 23:37:31 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1283/Thu Feb 9 12:55:06 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:35:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 763 Lines: 23 Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with ambitions to integrate with some kind of database.... I'm supposed to figure out how we can dynamically test the current date and update the web page to show the next meeting, which is either the first Sunday or the third Monday of the month. For example, if it's the tenth of February, the web site should tell people the next meeting is Monday, February 20. On Tuesday, February 21 the web site should proclaim the next meeting as Sunday March 5. So far, walking the output of the cal utility and making sense of the date function in PHP is difficult. I'll keep working, hoping that someone will point to some code that does the trick. jim From sverma@sfsu.edu Sun Feb 12 00:14:23 2006 Received: from iron2.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.36]:38746) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8CN7-0006CS-Rr for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:14:22 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron2.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 12 Feb 2006 00:14:15 -0800 Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006021200152237-15182 ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:15:22 -0800 Message-ID: <43EEEE4D.2050008@sfsu.edu> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 00:14:05 -0800 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> In-Reply-To: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 02/12/2006 00:15:22, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 02/12/2006 00:14:14, Serialize complete at 02/12/2006 00:14:14 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.36 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:14:24 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1003 Lines: 33 jim stockford wrote: > > Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web > site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with > ambitions to integrate with some kind of database.... [snipped] Hi Jim, Considering all the different functions you'd like to build into the SFLUG site eventually, you could use a CMS such as Drupal. We've been using Drupal for some time now, and find it quite useful. Events get posted on a site calendar automatically. For example, see http://is.sfsu.edu/event/2005/11/12/month/all/all/1 We post the event as a page (called an event node in Drupal terms) and it shows up on the calendar. It can even be imported via iCal into a layered calendar application such as Mozilla Sunbird. Of course, if the purpose is to build something from scratch, I can appreciate the effort. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Sun Feb 12 13:58:45 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:55503) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8PEG-0002NR-2B for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:58:44 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1CLvrQH004213 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 13:57:53 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:00:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1284/Sun Feb 12 08:00:59 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5-413144940 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [SBAY Announce] SBAY.org open board posiitions X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:58:47 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 8043 Lines: 292 --Apple-Mail-5-413144940 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the open vacancies in the message below are volunteer positions, not paid. Check out their web site: > http://corp.sbay.org/ Send serious inquiries to: > star+sbay@starshine.org And of course read her email below.... Begin forwarded message: > From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) > Date: February 10, 2006 2:19:52 PM PST > To: "SBAY.org announce list" > Subject: [SBAY Announce] SBAY.org open board posiitions > Reply-To: star+sbay@starshine.org > > > Apologies if you are seeing more than one copy of this - that would > mean > that you are active in more than one Special Interest Group (SIG) or > committee of SBAY.org activities. If there was delay, note that our > announce lists are moderated and I am not the listmaster. > > If this is the first you're hearing of SBAY (and I suppose even if > it's > not ;> ) - SBAY.org is a technical organization dedicated to support > of > electronic communications, open source technology, and the > technologies > that these are leading us toward. > > We still have two vacancies and ideally, we'd like to fill them by > the > February 18 board meeting, so that these directors could be accepted > and > able to attend that meeting. The first order of business will be to > fill > these positions if there are candidates for them. > > Don't be bashful - if you *think* you're interested, feel free to ask > enough to become sure; I can be easily reached by cellphone, or if > you > prefer to email, please use: > star+sbay@starshine.org > lest you risk being sent to my flood folder... which I do check, but > not > nearly as often. You might find what you need without having to > ask, at: > http://corp.sbay.org/ > > 1. Secretary to the Board of Directors > In this position you would -- > * maintain the current text of the by-laws. > This will be easy to start with, since the original as agreed > upon by > our board is part of our incorporation filing with the state. > * maintain the minutes of meetings of Board of Directors and members > The previous board meeting was conducted partly over IRC, thus a > session transcript of that portion was very easy. Good typing > might > be desired, but you don't have to be verbose. > * maintains organization records > This will become increasingly important as our SIGs are involved > in > major projects and membership records are maintained. There will > likely be some coordination with the Treasurer. > This position is elected by the Board of Directors for one > calendar-year > term at a time. The secretary is a critical position for smooth > operation > of any club, so we hope for someone who can get along well with our > varied > SIGs as well. > > 2. A 2006 calendar-year voting seat on the Board of Directors. > * You would be expected to make efforts to attend board of directors > meetings, although electronic means may be available and by phone > would > do in a pinch. > * As part of the board you would look out for the organization's > best > interest as a whole, as well as a positive result for our SIGs and > projects. > > Thanks for bothering to read this far; if either spot looks like > you, I > look forward to seeing you at SBAY.org's next board meeting. > > : > . | . starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services > Heather Stern -->*<-- Sysadmin Support and Training > star at ' | ` Vice President * SBAY.org > : 408.761.4912 cell 800.938.4078 > pager > > > _______________________________________________ > SBAY Announce mailing list - sbay.org announcements > --Apple-Mail-5-413144940 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII the open vacancies in the message below are volunteer positions, not paid. Check out their web site: http://corp.sbay.org/ Send serious inquiries to: star+sbay@starshine.org And of course read her email below.... Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: star@starshine.org (Heather Stern) 0000,0000,0000Date: February 10, 2006 2:19:52 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: "SBAY.org announce list" < 0000,0000,0000Subject: [SBAY Announce] SBAY.org open board posiitions 0000,0000,0000Reply-To: star+sbay@starshine.org Apologies if you are seeing more than one copy of this - that would mean that you are active in more than one Special Interest Group (SIG) or committee of SBAY.org activities. If there was delay, note that our announce lists are moderated and I am not the listmaster. If this is the first you're hearing of SBAY (and I suppose even if it's not ;> ) - SBAY.org is a technical organization dedicated to support of electronic communications, open source technology, and the technologies that these are leading us toward. We still have two vacancies and ideally, we'd like to fill them by the February 18 board meeting, so that these directors could be accepted and able to attend that meeting. The first order of business will be to fill these positions if there are candidates for them. Don't be bashful - if you *think* you're interested, feel free to ask enough to become sure; I can be easily reached by cellphone, or if you prefer to email, please use: star+sbay@starshine.org lest you risk being sent to my flood folder... which I do check, but not nearly as often. You might find what you need without having to ask, at: http://corp.sbay.org/ 1. Secretary to the Board of Directors In this position you would -- * maintain the current text of the by-laws. This will be easy to start with, since the original as agreed upon by our board is part of our incorporation filing with the state. * maintain the minutes of meetings of Board of Directors and members The previous board meeting was conducted partly over IRC, thus a session transcript of that portion was very easy. Good typing might be desired, but you don't have to be verbose. * maintains organization records This will become increasingly important as our SIGs are involved in major projects and membership records are maintained. There will likely be some coordination with the Treasurer. This position is elected by the Board of Directors for one calendar-year term at a time. The secretary is a critical position for smooth operation of any club, so we hope for someone who can get along well with our varied SIGs as well. 2. A 2006 calendar-year voting seat on the Board of Directors. * You would be expected to make efforts to attend board of directors meetings, although electronic means may be available and by phone would do in a pinch. * As part of the board you would look out for the organization's best interest as a whole, as well as a positive result for our SIGs and projects. Thanks for bothering to read this far; if either spot looks like you, I look forward to seeing you at SBAY.org's next board meeting. : . | . starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services Heather Stern -->*<<-- Sysadmin Support and Training star at ' | ` Vice President * SBAY.org : 408.761.4912 cell 800.938.4078 pager _______________________________________________ SBAY Announce mailing list - sbay.org announcements --Apple-Mail-5-413144940-- From jim@well.com Sun Feb 12 14:48:59 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:58039) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8Q1D-0002hf-2n for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:48:58 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1CMmWJd018952 for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:48:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <5D5A5496-9C19-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:46:11 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1284/Sun Feb 12 08:00:59 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-415897992 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: On another subject: HP C3600S X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:48:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3850 Lines: 159 --Apple-Mail-6-415897992 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed anybody got advice for Alex? Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're old enough that there's a good chance all the subsystems are known to the linux software folks. if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall beating and at last resort the machines can be donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch (of which there are two or three at least in the sf bay area). An alternative approach is to look through the linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from the hip). Begin forwarded message: > From: Alex Kleider > Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S > Reply-To: alex@kleider.net > > The following computer is up for grabs: > HP C3600S > with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP > internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics > 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive. > It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux > running on it. > Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux > that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I > might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to > help me get it running under Linux. > Any suggestions or comments? > Alex > > > > alex@kleider.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > --Apple-Mail-6-415897992 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII anybody got advice for Alex? Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're old enough that there's a good chance all the subsystems are known to the linux software folks. if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall beating and at last resort the machines can be donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch (of which there are two or three at least in the sf bay area). An alternative approach is to look through the linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from the hip). Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Alex Kleider < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim stockford < 0000,0000,0000Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S 0000,0000,0000Reply-To: alex@kleider.net The following computer is up for grabs: HP C3600S with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive. It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux running on it. Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to help me get it running under Linux. Any suggestions or comments? Alex alex@kleider.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --Apple-Mail-6-415897992-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Sun Feb 12 19:43:54 2006 Received: from web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.127]:31609) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8Ucb-0004Wb-TZ for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:53 -0800 Received: (qmail 37037 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2006 03:43:22 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=coRNheYZFFLbtuHkvPkP8IJazYbBiJKNyxHsOUN7bRaz+y+nB/86tyH1+kcSNQJSHcYTZlZCLeBSFIc5u63Ed+QFVkAVTacvVMWT3Q7TcDjJFiULVHvVKQPRFrjnREiRtCVgzFc1GW1AtUdUDK/GAZSdfudKc6l/tAlD0kR95SE= ; Message-ID: <20060213034322.37035.qmail@web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.140.63.214] by web31415.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:21 PST Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:43:21 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.127 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: [sf-lug] On another subject: HP C3600S Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-352506974-1139802201=:37008" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:43:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5812 Lines: 100 --0-352506974-1139802201=:37008 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-102625891-1139802201=:37008" --0-102625891-1139802201=:37008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alex, There is a good chance Linux will run well on that hardware. If not, you can always disassemble it and use some of the parts for other systems. Cheers, Adrien jim stockford wrote: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:46:11 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: On another subject: HP C3600S anybody got advice for Alex? Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're old enough that there's a good chance all the subsystems are known to the linux software folks. if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall beating and at last resort the machines can be donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch (of which there are two or three at least in the sf bay area). An alternative approach is to look through the linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from the hip). Begin forwarded message: > From: Alex Kleider > Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST > To: jim stockford > Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S > Reply-To: alex@kleider.net > > The following computer is up for grabs: > HP C3600S > with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP > internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics > 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive. > It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux > running on it. > Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux > that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I > might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to > help me get it running under Linux. > Any suggestions or comments? > Alex > > > > alex@kleider.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --0-102625891-1139802201=:37008 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alex,

There is a good chance Linux will run well on that hardware. If not, you
can always disassemble it and use some of the parts for other systems.

Cheers,

Adrien

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:
To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
From: jim stockford <jim@well.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:46:11 -0800
Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: On another subject: HP C3600S


anybody got advice for Alex?

Mine is: grab 'em both and go from there; they're
old enough that there's a good chance all the
subsystems are known to the linux software folks.
if not, then you (or your surrogate, possibly
someone from sf-lug) learned a lot by head-wall
beating and at last resort the machines can be
donated to a school or techno-reclamation bunch
(of which there are two or three at least in the sf
bay area).
An alternative approach is to look through the
linux compatibility lists first (not my way, grab 'em
and then look things up, but I tend to shoot from
the hip).


Begin forwarded message:

> From: Alex Kleider
> Date: February 9, 2006 6:50:40 PM PST
> To: jim stockford
> Subject: On another subject: HP C3600S
> Reply-To: alex@kleider.net
>
> The following computer is up for grabs:
> HP C3600S
> with a NEC 21" Flat-screen, HP internal CD-ROM, HP External 4mm DAT, HP
> internal 3.5" floppy, HP USB Keyboard, HP 3-button mouse, USRobotics
> 33.6 Modem, HP-OD-MAX-52GB Opticaland a 7200 RPM LVD Disk Drive.
> It takes up space and I would like to take it only if I could get Linux
> running on it.
> Do you have an opinion about this? i.e. is there a version of Linux
> that would run on this machine. There are actually two available. I
> might be able to swing one for me and the other for anyone willing to
> help me get it running under Linux.
> Any suggestions or comments?
> Alex
>
>
>
> alex@kleider.net
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --0-102625891-1139802201=:37008-- --0-352506974-1139802201=:37008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Description: pat1960565626 Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-352506974-1139802201=:37008-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Sun Feb 12 19:48:00 2006 Received: from web53611.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.178]:38611) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8Ugh-0004YF-Sv for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:47:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 70924 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Feb 2006 03:47:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=OsghPOLmFhGNH7XE0UujVzTihv7eEd12Wl1ocDw7IdFTTIuIjnNlB5q2MEa/jdJkJUZTKAlGL6BoNxuKCwljUhdiLC3xB372Yufa2GsjCzAVTMK1WUkS/tTlXQJeKDeeNSonuDFS5pgqGvOxdZD6bfnslgheNbfJMqGso8kvTBg= ; Message-ID: <20060213034736.70922.qmail@web53611.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.103.35.168] by web53611.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:47:36 PST Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:47:36 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Sameer Verma , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <43EEEE4D.2050008@sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.39.178 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1984306488-1139802456=:70402" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 03:48:01 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3808 Lines: 56 --0-1984306488-1139802456=:70402 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Sameer, Your idea of using Drupal is good. What we are looking for, is a simple script, that will automatically update with the date and time of the meetings, without someone continually edting the page. It is hard to make a commitment to have someone always do that. Life happens. We would like to update the site with the latest news in the Linux/OpenSource world. Eventually add member's resumes and community events. Any suggestions? Vince Sameer Verma wrote: jim stockford wrote: > > Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web > site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with > ambitions to integrate with some kind of database.... [snipped] Hi Jim, Considering all the different functions you'd like to build into the SFLUG site eventually, you could use a CMS such as Drupal. We've been using Drupal for some time now, and find it quite useful. Events get posted on a site calendar automatically. For example, see http://is.sfsu.edu/event/2005/11/12/month/all/all/1 We post the event as a page (called an event node in Drupal terms) and it shows up on the calendar. It can even be imported via iCal into a layered calendar application such as Mozilla Sunbird. Of course, if the purpose is to build something from scratch, I can appreciate the effort. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1984306488-1139802456=:70402 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Sameer,
Your idea of using Drupal is good. What we are looking for, is a simple script, that will automatically update with the date and time of the meetings, without someone continually edting the page. It is hard to make a commitment to have someone always do that. Life happens. We would like to update the site with the latest news in the Linux/OpenSource world. Eventually add member's resumes and community events.  Any suggestions?

Vince

Sameer Verma <sverma@sfsu.edu> wrote:
jim stockford wrote:

>
> Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web
> site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with
> ambitions to integrate with some kind of database....

[snipped]

Hi Jim,
Considering all the different functions you'd like to build into the
SFLUG site eventually, you could use a CMS such as Drupal. We've been
using Drupal for some time now, and find it quite useful. Events get
posted on a site calendar automatically. For example, see
http://is.sfsu.edu/event/2005/11/12/month/all/all/1 We post the event as
a page (called an event node in Drupal terms) and it shows up on the
calendar. It can even be imported via iCal into a layered calendar
application such as Mozilla Sunbird.

Of course, if the purpose is to build something from scratch, I can
appreciate the effort.

cheers,
Sameer

--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-1984306488-1139802456=:70402-- From mark@kermit.org Sun Feb 12 21:59:12 2006 Received: from lnx.kermit.org ([213.133.109.17]:59244) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8Wjk-0005Ka-PZ for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:59:11 -0800 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lnx.kermit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D56F1632C for ; Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:58:57 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> References: <17E22DE8-9A08-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> Message-Id: <12B3E92B-863B-4DE7-9E72-FC1B4C675B3F@kermit.org> From: mark@kermit.org Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:58:43 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of mark@kermit.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 213.133.109.17 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mark@kermit.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] how to detect the first Sunday in PHP X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 05:59:13 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3177 Lines: 111 Here is a little function with an example use I just wrote - I think it should do the trick. Hope you guys can use it: 0 ) { $firstSunday= 8 - $firstOfMonth; } else { $firstSunday= 1; } $firstSundayDate=date("D",mktime(0, 0, 0, $month , $firstSunday, $year)); // figure out what date the third monday of the month is if ( $firstOfMonth > 1) { $offSet = 8 - $firstOfMonth; } elseif ( $firstOfMonth == 0 ) { $offSet=1; } else { $offSet=0; } $thirdMonday= 15 + $offSet; $thirdMondayDate=date("D",mktime(0, 0, 0, $month , $thirdMonday, $year)); // lets see which of these dates now applies if ($day <= $firstSunday) { // we didn't miss the first meeting $nextMeeting=$firstSunday; $nextMeetingDate=mktime(0, 0, 0, $month , $nextMeeting, $year); } elseif ( ($day > $firstSunday) && ($day <= $thirdMonday) ) { // we missed the first meeting of the month, but can still make the second $nextMeeting=$thirdMonday; $nextMeetingDate=mktime(0, 0, 0, $month , $nextMeeting, $year); } else { // we need to wait until next month $nextMeetingDate=nextMeeting(1); $nextMeeting=nextMeeting(1); } return $nextMeetingDate; } $meeting=nextMeeting(); echo "The next meeting is on " . date('l dS \of F Y', $meeting); ?> On Feb 9, 2006, at 23:37 , jim stockford wrote: > > Vince and I are working on updating the sf-lug web > site. We've agreed to use apache and php, with > ambitions to integrate with some kind of database.... > > I'm supposed to figure out how we can dynamically > test the current date and update the web page to show > the next meeting, which is either the first Sunday or the > third Monday of the month. > For example, if it's the tenth of February, the web > site should tell people the next meeting is Monday, > February 20. On Tuesday, February 21 the web site > should proclaim the next meeting as Sunday March 5. > > So far, walking the output of the cal utility and > making sense of the date function in PHP is difficult. > I'll keep working, hoping that someone will point to > some code that does the trick. > jim > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim@well.com Mon Feb 13 15:31:55 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:35689) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F8nAN-00043y-A2 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:31:55 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1DNVUP3020919 for ; Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:31:30 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <32E2C11F-9CE9-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:33:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-505162064 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Linux Management Survey Results X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:31:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5154 Lines: 186 --Apple-Mail-9-505162064 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed check it out, we get results of last year's study. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Andi Mann" > Date: February 13, 2006 1:37:19 PM PST > To: > Subject: Linux Management Survey Results > > Hi=A0Jim, > > =A0 > > You might remember in November last year, I asked for assistance from=20= > you and members of the San Francisco Linux User Group for our research=20= > on the cost and effort involved in managing Linux server environments.=20= > Your members=92 responses to our web survey were added to a = wide-ranging=20 > random telephone survey and in-depth interviews to get a=20 > vendor-neutral look at Linux system management. > > =A0 > > Well, the study is complete now, and I promised to send it to you when=20= > it was done. You can get the executive summary from OSDL=92s web site = at=20 > http://osdl.org/newsroom/studies/EMA, and the full PDF is available at=20= > the web site of the main sponsor (Levanta) at=20 > http://www.levanta.com/linuxstudy/. Please feel free to pass these=20 > links along to your members, at your discretion. Both the summary and=20= > the full report are available free of charge. > > =A0 > > I want to thank you again for your help with collecting primary data=20= > for this study. Due to the anonymous nature of the web survey, I=20 > cannot be sure that your members contributed, but I am sure they will=20= > be interested to see the results anyway. > > =A0 > > If you have any questions or comment, please feel free to contact me. > > =A0 > > Regards, > > =A0 > > Andi Mann > > Senior Analyst > > Enterprise Management Associates. --Apple-Mail-9-505162064 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 check it out, we get results of last year's study.=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Andi Mann" < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 13, 2006 1:37:19 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Linux Management Survey Results Times New = RomanHi=A0Jim, Times New = Roman=A0 Times New RomanYou might remember in November last year, I asked for assistance from you and members of the San Francisco Linux User Group for our research on the cost and effort involved in managing Linux server environments. Your members=92 responses to our web survey were added to a wide-ranging random telephone survey and in-depth interviews to get a vendor-neutral look at Linux system = management. Times New Roman = =A0 Times New RomanWell, the study is complete now, and I promised to send it to you when it was done. You can get the executive summary from OSDL=92s web site at = 0000,0000,FFFFhttp://osdl.org/newsroom/studies/EMA, and the full PDF is available at the web site of the main sponsor (Levanta) at = 0000,0000,FFFFhttp://www.levanta.com/linuxstudy/. Please feel free to pass these links along to your members, at your discretion. Both the summary and the full report are available free of charge. Times New = Roman=A0 Times New RomanI want to thank you again for your help with collecting primary data for this study. Due to the anonymous nature of the web survey, I cannot be sure that your members contributed, but I am sure they will be interested to see the results anyway. Times New = Roman=A0 Times New RomanIf you have any questions or comment, please feel free to contact = me. Times New = Roman=A0 Times New = RomanRegards, Times New = Roman=A0 Times New RomanAndi = Mann Times New RomanSenior Analyst Times New RomanEnterprise Management Associates. = --Apple-Mail-9-505162064-- From hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in Tue Feb 14 21:30:42 2006 Received: from web8515.mail.in.yahoo.com ([202.43.219.108]:46400) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9FFL-00076K-2J for ; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:30:41 -0800 Received: (qmail 8617 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Feb 2006 05:30:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.in; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=fLQ3Uutv1yk5mbG0DdpVEf82fl2Tf6AbHpkrhdnqC3eUhtl+F8yfeN1iZzQobqhlpTs3HK8ADcOmpnXMQXdnaaxv1blvyhbSKI01vdOaEZJDfMHTzEgZ0Q28m6QUBgYVKy7V+cpku+brPaLbnZDk0Mp4coqhIoWxYNxH5Xys6h0= ; Message-ID: <20060215053030.8615.qmail@web8515.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.4.203.34] by web8515.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:30:30 GMT Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:30:30 +0000 (GMT) From: Hariharan Sankaranarayanan To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 202.43.219.108 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1989660460-1139981430=:6880" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:25:08 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kernel Training X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:30:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1075 Lines: 29 --0-1989660460-1139981430=:6880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Folks - Are there any Linux Kernel Training centres in the bay-area ? Kindly let know. Thanks, Hari. --------------------------------- Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. --0-1989660460-1139981430=:6880 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi Folks -
 
Are there any Linux Kernel Training centres in the bay-area ? Kindly let know. 
 
Thanks,
Hari.
 

Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket
Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. --0-1989660460-1139981430=:6880-- From jim@well.com Wed Feb 15 10:32:57 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41388) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9RQz-0003Hc-BL for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:32:56 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1FIVIE8021892 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:31:18 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:33:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-12-659950806 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] =?iso-8859-1?q?Fwd=3A_ANNOUNCE=3A_Registration_Open_for?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Gelato_ICE=3A_Itanium=AE_Conference_=26_Expo_2006?= X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:32:57 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 14472 Lines: 394 --Apple-Mail-12-659950806 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed The link below explains their mission but not how'd they come up with the name? http://www.gelato.org/about/whatis.php Combining "linux" with some CPU surely has got to include kernel discussions. One of their questions is is there a need for a new (optimized) programming language for the Itanium CPU. Seems the application thrust leans toward the scientific. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Nan Holda" > Date: February 15, 2006 10:01:41 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: ANNOUNCE: Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE=20 > Conference & Expo 2006 > > Please pass this on to your members if you think they'd be interested. > > The Gelato Federation announces the opening of registration for the=20 > Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, = 2006=20 > in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's only=20 > conference dedicated specifically to Linux=AE on the Intel=AE Itanium=20= > architecture. For more details, visit . > > The conference-hosted by Gelato and sponsored by HP, Intel, and=20 > Itanium Solutions Alliance-will be the year's highpoint for those=20 > wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on Itanium=20 > architecture. Join leading end users, developers, ISVs, and system=20 > vendors for 40+ technical presentations on this revolutionary=20 > platform. Discover which software tools to use and how to use them to=20= > optimize applications for your Itanium-based systems. Also scheduled=20= > is integrated technical content to complement the collocated Itanium=20= > Solutions Alliance Developer Days to be held on April 26-28. > > The full press release is below and also available at=20 > . > > Thanks, > Nan > > Nan Holda > GELATO Federation > Advancing Linux Itanium > tel: 217.265.0947 > fax: 217.333.5579 > www.gelato.org > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo 2006 > > CHAMPAIGN, Ill. (February 15, 2006)--The Gelato Federation=20 > () announced today the opening of registration=20= > for the Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo to be held on April=20= > 23-26, 2006 in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's=20 > only conference dedicated specifically to Linux=AE on the Intel=AE = Itanium=20 > architecture. The conference will be hosted by the Gelato Federation=20= > and sponsored by HP, Intel, and Itanium Solutions Alliance. Space is=20= > limited. An Early Bird discount is in effect until March 25, 2006.=20 > Registration information is available at=20 > . > > Gelato ICE is the conference for technical users, application and tool=20= > developers, system researchers and vendors, and ISVs looking to extend=20= > the impact of Linux on Itanium architecture. The event will address=20 > current high-performance computing issues and collaborative solutions=20= > specific to Linux on the Itanium processor, and will feature=20 > presentations, poster sessions, and the exchange of information in=20 > formal and informal settings. Attendees can network with key=20 > researchers, system vendors, industrial users, and ISVs. Participants=20= > will learn how to maximize the performance of their systems and=20 > discover which tools to use and how to use them. > > "We are looking forward to this being our best conference to date with=20= > outstanding speakers from a variety of Itanium community participants=20= > as well as record attendance. The depth and breath of the technical=20 > program are impressive," stated Mark K. Smith, Gelato managing=20 > director. "We are also very excited about partnering with the Itanium=20= > Solutions Alliance on the collocated Developer Days event that=20 > immediately follows Gelato ICE." > > Gelato ICE 2006 will feature three full days and 40+ technical=20 > presentations spotlighting Linux on Itanium-based platforms.=20 > Presenters will include international experts working on this=20 > architecture and speaking on topics such as: virtualization,=20 > scalability, compilers, and memory management. New for Gelato ICE 2006=20= > are an exhibition area and a program track targeting corporate=20 > developers and IT decision makers. An expanded technical program will=20= > include enterprise-specific topics like database/data mining and=20 > hardware reliability. > > Also new for Gelato ICE 2006 is integrated technical content to=20 > complement the collocated Itanium Solutions Alliance Developer Days to=20= > be held on April 26-28. Developer Days are Alliance-organized events=20= > established to facilitate porting of targeted applications to Itanium=20= > platforms. Software developers receive training, technical assistance,=20= > and industry-leading tools from Alliance Founding Sponsors and=20 > members. Registration for Developer Days is separate from Gelato ICE=20= > registration. Space at Developer Days is limited and available on a=20 > first-come, first-served basis. Details can be found at=20 > . > > "The Itanium Solutions Alliance is thrilled to be collaborating with=20= > Gelato at the Gelato ICE 2006 and Alliance Developer Days events,"=20 > said Bruce Toal, director of marketing and solutions for Hewlett=20 > Packard's High Performance Computing Division. "The combined knowledge=20= > and resources of these two industry-leading groups ensures that=20 > attendees of both events will receive the best training and=20 > information on Linux on Itanium architecture available." > > The week-long combination--Gelato ICE 2006 and the collocated Itanium=20= > Solutions Alliance Developer Days--will be the year's highpoint for=20 > those wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on=20 > Itanium architecture. Anyone working with this platform-or thinking=20 > about working with the platform-should attend. > > About Gelato > The Gelato Federation is the global technical community dedicated to=20= > advancing Linux on the Intel Itanium platform through collaboration,=20= > education, and leadership. Gelato members are suppliers and users of=20= > Linux/Itanium processor technology with a shared goal of producing=20 > open-source solutions for academic, government, and industrial=20 > high-performance computing users. The Gelato portal=20 > () serves as the primary channel for Federation=20= > business and collaborations. Information about Gelato members'=20 > software and solutions are available through the portal, and the=20 > community is welcome to participate and contribute. > > For more information, please contact: > Nan Holda > nan@gelato.org > 217.265.0947 > > Intel and Itanium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation or=20 > its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries. Linux is a=20= > registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. All other=20= > trademarks mentioned herein are the property of their respective=20 > owners. > > > # # # > --Apple-Mail-12-659950806 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 The link below explains their mission but not how'd=20 they come up with the name?=20 http://www.gelato.org/about/whatis.php=20 Combining "linux" with some CPU surely has got to=20 include kernel discussions.=20 One of their questions is is there a need for a new=20 (optimized) programming language for the Itanium=20 CPU. Seems the application thrust leans toward the=20 scientific.=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Nan Holda" < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 15, 2006 10:01:41 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: ANNOUNCE: Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo 2006 Please pass this on to your members if you think they'd be interested. The Gelato Federation announces the opening of registration for the Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's only conference dedicated specifically to Linux=AE on the Intel=AE Itanium architecture. For more details, visit <. The conference-hosted by Gelato and sponsored by HP, Intel, and Itanium Solutions Alliance-will be the year's highpoint for those wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on Itanium architecture. Join leading end users, developers, ISVs, and system vendors for 40+ technical presentations on this revolutionary platform. Discover which software tools to use and how to use them to optimize applications for your Itanium-based systems. Also scheduled is integrated technical content to complement the collocated Itanium Solutions Alliance Developer Days to be held on April 26-28. The full press release is below and also available at <. Thanks, Nan Nan Holda GELATO Federation Advancing Linux Itanium tel: 217.265.0947 fax: 217.333.5579 www.gelato.org -------------------------------------------------------- Registration Open for Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo 2006 CHAMPAIGN, Ill. (February 15, 2006)--The Gelato Federation (<) announced today the opening of registration for the Gelato ICE: Itanium=AE Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 in San Jose, California, USA. Gelato ICE is the world's only conference dedicated specifically to Linux=AE on the Intel=AE = Itanium architecture. The conference will be hosted by the Gelato Federation and sponsored by HP, Intel, and Itanium Solutions Alliance. Space is limited. An Early Bird discount is in effect until March 25, 2006. Registration information is available at <. Gelato ICE is the conference for technical users, application and tool developers, system researchers and vendors, and ISVs looking to extend the impact of Linux on Itanium architecture. The event will address current high-performance computing issues and collaborative solutions specific to Linux on the Itanium processor, and will feature presentations, poster sessions, and the exchange of information in formal and informal settings. Attendees can network with key researchers, system vendors, industrial users, and ISVs. Participants will learn how to maximize the performance of their systems and discover which tools to use and how to use them.=20 "We are looking forward to this being our best conference to date with outstanding speakers from a variety of Itanium community participants as well as record attendance. The depth and breath of the technical program are impressive," stated Mark K. Smith, Gelato managing director. "We are also very excited about partnering with the Itanium Solutions Alliance on the collocated Developer Days event that immediately follows Gelato ICE." Gelato ICE 2006 will feature three full days and 40+ technical presentations spotlighting Linux on Itanium-based platforms. Presenters will include international experts working on this architecture and speaking on topics such as: virtualization, scalability, compilers, and memory management. New for Gelato ICE 2006 are an exhibition area and a program track targeting corporate developers and IT decision makers. An expanded technical program will include enterprise-specific topics like database/data mining and hardware reliability. Also new for Gelato ICE 2006 is integrated technical content to complement the collocated Itanium Solutions Alliance Developer Days to be held on April 26-28. Developer Days are Alliance-organized events established to facilitate porting of targeted applications to Itanium platforms. Software developers receive training, technical assistance, and industry-leading tools from Alliance Founding Sponsors and members. Registration for Developer Days is separate from Gelato ICE registration. Space at Developer Days is limited and available on a first-come, first-served basis. Details can be found at <. "The Itanium Solutions Alliance is thrilled to be collaborating with Gelato at the Gelato ICE 2006 and Alliance Developer Days events," said Bruce Toal, director of marketing and solutions for Hewlett Packard's High Performance Computing Division. "The combined knowledge and resources of these two industry-leading groups ensures that attendees of both events will receive the best training and information on Linux on Itanium architecture available."=20 The week-long combination--Gelato ICE 2006 and the collocated Itanium Solutions Alliance Developer Days--will be the year's highpoint for those wanting to learn more about using and developing Linux on Itanium architecture. Anyone working with this platform-or thinking about working with the platform-should attend. About Gelato The Gelato Federation is the global technical community dedicated to advancing Linux on the Intel Itanium platform through collaboration, education, and leadership. Gelato members are suppliers and users of Linux/Itanium processor technology with a shared goal of producing open-source solutions for academic, government, and industrial high-performance computing users. The Gelato portal (<) serves as the primary channel for Federation business and collaborations. Information about Gelato members' software and solutions are available through the portal, and the community is welcome to participate and contribute. For more information, please contact: Nan Holda nan@gelato.org 217.265.0947 Intel and Itanium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation or its subsidiaries in the United States and other countries. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. All other trademarks mentioned herein are the property of their respective owners. # # # = --Apple-Mail-12-659950806-- From jim@well.com Wed Feb 15 11:13:23 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:45507) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9S5Y-0003eF-Mv for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:13:22 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1FJDHqh010588 for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:13:18 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <75EFB8D9-9E57-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:15:43 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Monday, February 20, sf-lug at the javacat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:13:24 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 110 Lines: 6 Mark your calendars, sf-lug at the Javacat on Geary at 20th Avenue in san francisco: 6:00 PM till 8:00 PM. From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Feb 15 12:21:55 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9T9u-0004A0-9Y by authid for ; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:21:54 -0800 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:21:53 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: =?iso-8859-1?Q?ANNOUNCE?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=3A_Registration_Open_for_Gelato_ICE=3A_Itanium?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=AE?= Conference & Expo 2006 Message-ID: <20060215202153.GA14915@linuxmafia.com> References: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9829EDFC-9E51-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:21:55 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 228 Lines: 10 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > The link below explains their mission but not how'd > they come up with the name? Gee, dunno, ice and Itanic seem to... um... go together. (Darn, was that my outside voice again?) From jim@well.com Thu Feb 16 08:44:49 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41492) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9mEa-0003SO-7j for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:44:48 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1GGhsdk021877 for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:43:54 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:46:18 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1290/Thu Feb 16 01:14:53 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-14-739904931 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Open Fabrics Symposium X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:44:49 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 13025 Lines: 362 --Apple-Mail-14-739904931 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed there's something kind of "full circle" about this (joseph jaquard's loom machine figures in the history of computing machines, and here it comes again). Even if no one in sf-lug wants to pay the $175 early-registration fee, it seems interesting to know this fabric software convention will be in SF at Moscone. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Christin Evans" > Date: February 15, 2006 1:35:36 PM PST > To: > Subject: Open Fabrics Symposium > > Hello, > > I was wondering if you would post the following information on your =20= > event calendar: > > The OpenIB Alliance and the InfiniBandSM Trade Association will host =20= > the Open Fabrics Symposium on March 6 in San Francisco, from 8.00 a.m. = =20 > =96 5:30 p.m. The symposium will bring leading fabric developers and =20= > users together to discuss the future of fabric computing. Register by =20= > February 24 for $175 or after February 25 for $250 at =20 > http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=3D104352. > > I have pasted a news release on this symposium below. Could you send =20= > the release to your members? > > Christin Evans > Owen Media > 206-322-1167 x112 > ChristinE@owenmedia.com > > > For Immediate Release > Contact:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Marta George > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = Phone: (503) 222-2545 > =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = martag@owenmedia.com > > OpenIB Alliance and InfiniBand Trade Association > Announce the Open Fabrics Symposium March 6, 2006 > > SAN FRANCISCO, February 14, 2006 =96 The OpenIB Alliance and the =20 > InfiniBand Trade Association announce the Open Fabrics Symposium, to =20= > be held on March 6 in conjunction with the Intel Developer Forum =20 > Spring 2006. > > The Open Fabrics Symposium will bring leading fabric developers and =20= > users together to discuss the future of fabric computing, including =20= > RDMA architectures in grid computing, virtualization and storage in =20= > RDMA interconnects. The Symposium is targeted at CTOs, CIOs, =20 > technologists, product managers, engineers, software and corporate =20 > developers and anyone working inside or around datacenters. Attendees =20= > will also learn about the usage of mainstream open source software =20 > stacks that leverage the benefits of Remote Direct Memory Access =20 > (RDMA) architectures across Linux and Windows. > > The Symposium will be held at Moscone West in San Francisco on March =20= > 6, 2006 from 8.00a.m =96 5:30p.m., with a reception to follow. > > To register > Register by February 24 and pay only $175. On February 25 the rate =20 > goes up to $250. Register at =20 > http://www.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=3D104352 > > The Symposium agenda is available at =20 > http://www.openib.org/conference/spring2006openfabrics/=20 > openfabrics_agenda.doc > > About OpenIB Alliance > The OpenIB Alliance is an industry association chartered to deliver a =20= > single, open-source Linux-based and Windows-based software stack for =20= > deploying InfiniBand. Founded in June 2004, the OpenIB Alliance is =20 > comprised of technology vendors and end-user organizations including: =20= > Appro; Cisco Systems, Inc.; Data Direct Networks, Inc.; Dell; Engenio =20= > Information Technologies, Inc.; Intel; Lawrence Livermore National =20 > Laboratory; Los Alamos National Laboratory; Linux Networx; Mellanox =20= > Technologies; Network Appliance; Oracle Corporation; PathScale; =20 > Rackable Systems; Sandia National Laboratories; Silicon Graphics; =20 > SilverStorm Technologies; Sun Microsystems, Inc.; Tyan Computer; =20 > Veritas Software; and Voltaire. More information about the OpenIB =20 > Alliance is available at www.openib.org. > > About InfiniBand Trade Association > InfiniBand is an industry-standard interconnect technology defined by =20= > the InfiniBand Trade Association for the purpose of delivering =20 > exceptional I/O fabric performance demanded by data centers, =20 > high-performance computing, and embedded environments. Today, =20 > InfiniBand solutions provide high-bandwidth, low-latency 10 and 20Gb/s = =20 > server-to-server and server-to-storage connections, and 30Gb/s and =20 > 60Gb/s switch-to-switch connections with a defined roadmap to 120Gb/s =20= > performance. InfiniBand architecture standardizes =20 > remote-direct-memory-access (RDMA) and 100% reliable =20 > transport=97hallmark capabilities for the industry=92s lowest latency, = =20 > highest bandwidth network or fabric available today. > > With the InfiniBand industry delivering affordable server, storage, =20= > and network platforms, open-source, interoperable software stacks, =20 > cluster, grid, storage and virtualization solutions, InfiniBand is the = =20 > optimal fabric technology for world-class computing. > > ### > > InfiniBand(TM/SM) is a trademark and service mark of the InfiniBand =20= > Trade Association.=A0 Other names and brands are the property of their = =20 > respective owners. > --Apple-Mail-14-739904931 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 there's something kind of "full circle" about=20 this (joseph jaquard's loom machine figures=20 in the history of computing machines, and=20 here it comes again). Even if no one in sf-lug=20 wants to pay the $175 early-registration fee,=20 it seems interesting to know this fabric=20 software convention will be in SF at Moscone.=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Christin Evans" < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 15, 2006 1:35:36 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Open Fabrics Symposium = ArialHello, ArialI was wondering if you would post the following information on your event = calendar: ArialThe OpenIB Alliance and the = InfiniBandArialSMArial Trade Association will host the Open Fabrics Symposium on March 6 in San Francisco, from 8.00 a.m. =96 5:30 p.m. The symposium will bring leading fabric developers and users together to discuss the future of fabric computing. Register by February 24 for $175 or after February 25 for $250 at = 0000,0000,FFFFhttp://ww= w.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=3D104352. ArialI have pasted a news release on this symposium below. Could you send the release to your members? ArialChristin = Evans ArialOwen = Media Arial206-322-1167 = x112 = ArialChristinE@owenmedia.com ArialFor Immediate Release ArialContact:=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Marta George Arial=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Phone: (503) 222-2545 Arial=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 martag@owenmedia.com ArialOpenIB Alliance and InfiniBand Trade Association ArialAnnounce the Open Fabrics Symposium March 6, 2006 ArialSAN FRANCISCO, February 14, = 2006Arial =96 The OpenIB Alliance and the InfiniBand Trade Association announce the Open Fabrics Symposium, to be held on March 6 in conjunction with the Intel Developer Forum Spring 2006. ArialThe Open Fabrics Symposium will bring leading fabric developers and users together to discuss the future of fabric computing, including RDMA architectures in grid computing, virtualization and storage in RDMA interconnects. The Symposium is targeted at CTOs, CIOs, technologists, product managers, engineers, software and corporate developers and anyone working inside or around datacenters. Attendees will also learn about the usage of mainstream open source software stacks that leverage the benefits of Remote Direct Memory Access (RDMA) architectures across Linux and Windows. ArialThe Symposium will be held at Moscone West in San Francisco on March 6, 2006 from 8.00a.m =96 5:30p.m., with a reception to follow. ArialTo = register ArialRegister by February 24 and pay only $175. On February 25 the rate goes up to $250. Register at = 0000,0000,FFFFhttp://ww= w.acteva.com/booking.cfm?bevaid=3D104352 ArialThe Symposium agenda is available at = 0000,0000,FFFFhttp://ww= w.openib.org/conference/spring2006openfabrics/openfabrics_agenda.doc ArialAbout OpenIB Alliance ArialThe OpenIB Alliance is an industry association chartered to deliver a single, open-source Linux-based and Windows-based software stack for deploying InfiniBand. Founded in June 2004, the OpenIB Alliance is comprised of technology vendors and end-user organizations including: Appro; Cisco Systems, Inc.; Data Direct Networks, Inc.; Dell; Engenio Information Technologies, Inc.; Intel; Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory; Los Alamos National Laboratory; Linux Networx; Mellanox Technologies; Network Appliance; Oracle Corporation; PathScale; Rackable Systems; Sandia National Laboratories; Silicon Graphics; SilverStorm Technologies; Sun Microsystems, Inc.; Tyan Computer; Veritas Software; and Voltaire. More information about the OpenIB Alliance is available at www.openib.org. ArialAbout InfiniBand Trade Association ArialInfiniBand is an industry-standard interconnect technology defined by the InfiniBand Trade Association for the purpose of delivering exceptional I/O fabric performance demanded by data centers, high-performance computing, and embedded environments. Today, InfiniBand solutions provide high-bandwidth, low-latency 10 and 20Gb/s server-to-server and server-to-storage connections, and 30Gb/s and 60Gb/s switch-to-switch connections with a defined roadmap to 120Gb/s performance. InfiniBand architecture standardizes remote-direct-memory-access (RDMA) and 100% reliable transport=97hallmark capabilities for the industry=92s lowest latency, highest bandwidth network or fabric available = today. ArialWith the InfiniBand industry delivering affordable server, storage, and network platforms, open-source, interoperable software stacks, cluster, grid, storage and virtualization solutions, InfiniBand is the optimal fabric technology for world-class computing. = Arial### Times New = RomanInfiniBand(TM/SM) is a trademark and service mark of the InfiniBand Trade Association.=A0 Other names and brands are the property of their respective = owners. = --Apple-Mail-14-739904931-- From jim@well.com Thu Feb 16 08:55:49 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42612) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9mPe-0003Vg-1F for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:55:48 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1GGtNIn027027; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:55:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <5C6C17D8-9F0D-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:57:49 -0800 To: "Aaron Baalbergen" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1290/Thu Feb 16 01:14:53 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-16-740595959 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: [sf-lug] YAJO (yet another job opportunity) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:55:49 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5379 Lines: 154 --Apple-Mail-16-740595959 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed On Feb 15, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Aaron Baalbergen wrote: > > Hello, > > I found the SF LUG website while looking for places to post a job=20 > opportunity for someone experienced with Linux.=A0 Would it be=20 > appropriate to send the opportunity out over the mailing list? > > I am including the posting below.=A0 If the mailing list would be an=20= > appropriate posting location, please either send it out to your=20 > members or let me know so that I can join and send it out.=A0 Thank = you. > > Aaron > > **** > Monster Cable is building a revolutionary new set top box that=20 > incorporates a media server/player, PVR, and whole-house automation.=A0=20= > The product has already been developed; all the back-end coding is=20 > done.=A0 We have partnerships and distribution in place.=A0 Now we = need to=20 > assemble a top-notch team to work on the user interface and usability,=20= > the design and sound, and also quality assurance and focus groups,=20 > working out of our offices near SFO airport.=A0 We are very committed = to=20 > this product and want to get the best team possible so that users bond=20= > with our product like they do with iPod or TiVo. > > Because we want to get our first version out the door in 8 months,=20 > our team will initially be working a lot with outside consultants and=20= > contractors.=A0 After the first version is out we will likely want to = do=20 > more of the work in-house, relying less on outside consultants. > > We need a linux guru with expertise in embedded systems.=A0 The=20 > hardware platform is an embedded Linux set top box, much like a TiVo.=A0= =20 > We have a strong team of C++ developers already in another office.=A0=20= > What we need in this office is someone who can work with the hardware=20= > engineers to resolve any software/driver issues and do=20 > troubleshooting. > > We are looking for ambitious, senior-level team players.=A0 We will=20= > provide good compensation and benefits.=A0 Both working as an employee=20= > as well as a freelancer are options, although employees are=20 > preferred.=A0 And, since this is a totally new division for Monster,=20= > it=92s a chance to get in on the ground floor and have a real impact,=20= > while at the same time have the comfort of working with a=20 > well-established, highly profitable, 28-year old company. > > Please contact Aaron Baalbergen at abaalbergen@monstercable.com if=20 > you are interested.=A0 Emails should include "Job Opportunities" in = the=20 > subject line. --Apple-Mail-16-740595959 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 On Feb 15, 2006, at 2:42 PM, Aaron Baalbergen wrote: Hello, I found the SF LUG website while looking for places to post a job opportunity for someone experienced with Linux.=A0 Would it be appropriate to send the opportunity out over the mailing list? I am including the posting below.=A0 If the mailing list would be an appropriate posting location, please either send it out to your members or let me know so that I can join and send it out.=A0 Thank = you. Aaron **** Monster Cable is building a revolutionary new set top box that incorporates a media server/player, PVR, and whole-house automation.=A0 The product has already been developed; all the back-end coding is done.=A0 We have partnerships and distribution in place.=A0 = Now we need to assemble a top-notch team to work on the user interface and usability, the design and sound, and also quality assurance and focus groups, working out of our offices near SFO airport.=A0 We are very committed to this product and want to get the best team possible so that users bond with our product like they do with iPod or = TiVo. Because we want to get our first version out the door in 8 months, our team will initially be working a lot with outside consultants and contractors.=A0 After the first version is out we will likely want to do more of the work in-house, relying less on outside consultants. We need a linux guru with expertise in embedded systems.=A0 The hardware platform is an embedded Linux set top box, much like a TiVo.=A0 We have a strong team of C++ developers already in another office.=A0 What we need in this office is someone who can work with the hardware engineers to resolve any software/driver issues and do troubleshooting. We are looking for ambitious, senior-level team players.=A0 We will provide good compensation and benefits.=A0 Both working as an employee as well as a freelancer are options, although employees are preferred.=A0 And, since this is a totally new division for Monster, it=92s a chance to get in on the ground floor and have a real impact, while at the same time have the comfort of working with a well-established, highly profitable, 28-year old company. Please contact Aaron Baalbergen at abaalbergen@monstercable.com if you are interested.=A0 Emails should include "Job Opportunities" in the subject line. = --Apple-Mail-16-740595959-- From hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in Thu Feb 16 13:09:11 2006 Received: from web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com ([202.43.219.167]:42023) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1F9qN4-0005QA-RB for ; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:09:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 37371 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Feb 2006 21:08:52 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.in; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=UorR3LV5zEDDLbW9iBUvihKxufIg4jkywdu3H/vgtZSHUW0Yuhm+2gThjEIzvp4wI23eaE82GfkZyOuDmJhPHnCuBLgMSsjPQyIjHHmV1RpEHB9Z0jh21ck+k8WhpmBfemibyiR/a4TvbkgGGI3uq1D6I10134L50rEfIiBTRZ4= ; Message-ID: <20060216210852.37369.qmail@web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com> Received: from [24.4.203.34] by web8505.mail.in.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:08:51 GMT Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:08:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Hariharan Sankaranarayanan To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 202.43.219.167 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: hariharan_sam@yahoo.co.in X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1414285956-1140124131=:36631" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Re: sf-lug Digest, Vol 3, Issue 9 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 21:09:11 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 953 Lines: 25 --0-1414285956-1140124131=:36631 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anyone aware of Linux kernel Training centres in and around Bay Area ? Kindly let know. -H --------------------------------- Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. --0-1414285956-1140124131=:36631 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Anyone aware of Linux kernel Training centres in and around Bay Area ? Kindly let know.
-H

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Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time. --0-1414285956-1140124131=:36631-- From jim@well.com Sat Feb 18 09:36:27 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:53296) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FAW02-0005Wl-5N for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:36:25 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1IHZRO6029110 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:35:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <4B3C77DE-A0A5-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:37:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-18-915801790 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: New Ubuntu and Perl books available from O'Reilly Rough Cuts X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:36:28 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2744 Lines: 143 --Apple-Mail-18-915801790 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: February 16, 2006 8:36:02 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: New Ubuntu and Perl books available from O'Reilly Rough Cuts > > Hello, > > Just wanted to let you know about these brand new Rough Cuts titles > available from O'Reilly: > > > Perl Hacks > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/index.html > > Ubuntu Hacks > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ubuntuhks/index.html > > Ajax Design Patterns > http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxdp/index.html > > > Rough Cuts is a new service that gives you early access to content on > cutting-edge technologies months before it's published. Other titles > include "Ajax Hacks," "Flickr Hacks," "Ruby Cookbook," "Ruby on Rails," > and "Java and XML, 3rd Edition." > > For more information, go to: > http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/ > > > > Thanks! > > Marsee > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > ================================================================ > --Apple-Mail-18-915801790 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 16, 2006 8:36:02 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: New Ubuntu and Perl books available from O'Reilly Rough Cuts Hello, Just wanted to let you know about these brand new Rough Cuts titles available from O'Reilly: Perl Hacks http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/index.html Ubuntu Hacks http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ubuntuhks/index.html Ajax Design Patterns http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/ajaxdp/index.html Rough Cuts is a new service that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge technologies months before it's published. Other titles include "Ajax Hacks," "Flickr Hacks," "Ruby Cookbook," "Ruby on Rails," and "Java and XML, 3rd Edition." For more information, go to: http://www.oreilly.com/roughcuts/ Thanks! Marsee ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ --Apple-Mail-18-915801790-- From jim@well.com Sat Feb 18 13:44:53 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:33681) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FAZsm-0006yd-Ej for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:44:53 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1ILik6P018890 for ; Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:44:46 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:47:13 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 21:44:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1061 Lines: 27 Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco. How'm'soever: A few people have brought up the idea of meetings more generally: more meetings, other meeting times, other places.... There's always my place--I've got several computers, at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio). There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood), maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe even your house? And other times. For me, for now, weekday mornings work great, as do occasional Tuesday or Thursday evenings. Holler if you want alternatives: send your email to the sf-lug@linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe we'll get some discussion, even agreement. jim From sverma@sfsu.edu Sun Feb 19 00:55:38 2006 Received: from iron2.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.36]:37193) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FAkLY-0002H5-Vy for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:55:35 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron2.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 19 Feb 2006 00:55:09 -0800 Received: from [192.168.89.10] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006021900561930-9762 ; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:56:19 -0800 Message-ID: <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 00:55:01 -0800 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: jim stockford References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> In-Reply-To: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 02/19/2006 00:56:19, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 02/19/2006 00:55:09, Serialize complete at 02/19/2006 00:55:09 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.36 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:55:40 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1462 Lines: 42 jim stockford wrote: > > Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at > the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco. > > How'm'soever: > A few people have brought up the idea of meetings > more generally: more meetings, other meeting times, > other places.... > There's always my place--I've got several computers, > at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on > demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and > new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available > to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work > collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio). > There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe > other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which > are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood), > maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe > even your house? And other times. For me, for now, > weekday mornings work great, as do occasional > Tuesday or Thursday evenings. > Holler if you want alternatives: send your email > to the sf-lug@linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe > we'll get some discussion, even agreement. > jim I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI M-line. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Sun Feb 19 08:14:46 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48016) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FArCo-0005Qd-29 for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:14:46 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1JGEZmm020116; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:14:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu> References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 08:17:03 -0800 To: Sameer Verma X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific) X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:14:47 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2167 Lines: 65 Anybody interested in meeting at SF State on 19th and Holloway at any particular time (probably evening)? For now this would be an additional meeting, alternating with the Javacat meetings. Most people who've joined the sf-lug mailing list seem to be lurkers--relatively few come to the Javacat. There are a few who used to come and now don't. A couple have complained of parking hassles, the only downside to the javacat. I suspect that a different few people would come to a meeting at a different time and place. I'd be willing to make the trek, just to be sure someone's there. On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > jim stockford wrote: > >> >> Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at >> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco. >> >> How'm'soever: >> A few people have brought up the idea of meetings >> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times, >> other places.... >> There's always my place--I've got several computers, >> at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on >> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and >> new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available >> to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work >> collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio). >> There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe >> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which >> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood), >> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe >> even your house? And other times. For me, for now, >> weekday mornings work great, as do occasional >> Tuesday or Thursday evenings. >> Holler if you want alternatives: send your email >> to the sf-lug@linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe >> we'll get some discussion, even agreement. >> jim > > I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been > to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI > M-line. > > Sameer > > -- > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > Asst. Professor of Information Systems > San Francisco State University > San Francisco CA 94132 USA > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > From johnlowry@gmail.com Sun Feb 19 10:11:18 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.193]:62565) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FAt17-0006C3-FN for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:11:17 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l37so525434nfc for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:36 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=VW+Jo5Chb9kvDuaO3Ciq4mmQ8zOU7PuZb43ZgFDm4wOfwZ4BK+lGIk2YtChwKmtGh7Vk3TJBzdvMfK9XXMFIBNFTJLIwAPqZP7wMbPCMG+WYTgK8R/CjN8sZKxsX/UcpbTdwNHD9FCiuiyRn8KrZcyg21MxBwVEw6Blz3hSV/7s= Received: by 10.49.10.15 with SMTP id n15mr723753nfi; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.242.10 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:35 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610602191010o426095b0pe1f94ba436122f05@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:10:35 -0800 From: "John Lowry" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1EF06543-A0C8-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> <43F83265.2000905@sfsu.edu> <29AF5D7F-A163-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.193 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.193 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] meetings in general (and specific) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1806_11907468.1140372635945" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:11:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6498 Lines: 147 ------=_Part_1806_11907468.1140372635945 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I could make that no problem. On 2/19/06, jim stockford wrote: > > > Anybody interested in meeting at SF State on > 19th and Holloway at any particular time > (probably evening)? For now this would be an > additional meeting, alternating with the Javacat > meetings. > > Most people who've joined the sf-lug mailing > list seem to be lurkers--relatively few come to > the Javacat. There are a few who used to come > and now don't. A couple have complained of > parking hassles, the only downside to the > javacat. > I suspect that a different few people would > come to a meeting at a different time and place. > I'd be willing to make the trek, just to be sure > someone's there. > > > On Feb 19, 2006, at 12:55 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: > > > jim stockford wrote: > > > >> > >> Monday, February 20 at 6:00 PM is meeting time at > >> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue in san francisco. > >> > >> How'm'soever: > >> A few people have brought up the idea of meetings > >> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times, > >> other places.... > >> There's always my place--I've got several computers, > >> at least one of which can be torn down and rebuilt on > >> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and > >> new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available > >> to anyone who wants to have an install party or to work > >> collaboratively on any linux-y project (e.g. audio). > >> There are other cafes, other neighborhoods, maybe > >> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classrooms, which > >> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood), > >> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe > >> even your house? And other times. For me, for now, > >> weekday mornings work great, as do occasional > >> Tuesday or Thursday evenings. > >> Holler if you want alternatives: send your email > >> to the sf-lug@linuxmafia.com mailing list and maybe > >> we'll get some discussion, even agreement. > >> jim > > > > I'm not sure how many people show up to these meetings (I haven't been > > to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on MUNI > > M-line. > > > > Sameer > > > > -- > > Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. > > Asst. Professor of Information Systems > > San Francisco State University > > San Francisco CA 94132 USA > > http://verma.sfsu.edu/ > > http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -- John Lowry ------=_Part_1806_11907468.1140372635945 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I could make that no problem.

On 2/= 19/06, jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

    Anybody interested in meeting at SF State on19th and Holloway at any particular time
(probably evening)? For now th= is would be an
additional meeting, alternating with the Javacat
meeti= ngs.

    Most people who've joined the sf-lug ma= iling
list seem to be lurkers--relatively few come to
the Javacat. There a= re a few who used to come
and now don't. A couple have complained of
= parking hassles, the only downside to the
javacat.
   =  I suspect that a different few people would
come to a meeting at a different time and place.
I'd be willing to m= ake the trek, just to be sure
someone's there.


On Feb 19, 200= 6, at 12:55 AM, Sameer Verma wrote:

> jim stockford wrote:
>
>>
>>    Monday, February 20 at = 6:00 PM is meeting time at
>> the Javacat on Geary at 20th avenue = in san francisco.
>>
>> How'm'soever:
>> &n= bsp;  A few people have brought up the idea of meetings
>> more generally: more meetings, other meeting times,
>>= ; other places....
>>    There's always my pla= ce--I've got several computers,
>> at least one of which can be to= rn down and rebuilt on
>> demand, and i've got lots of various distros old and
>&g= t; new to play with. I got 'em partly to make them available
>> to= anyone who wants to have an install party or to work
>> collabora= tively on any linux-y project ( e.g. audio).
>>    There are other cafes, othe= r neighborhoods, maybe
>> other kinds of venues (the ActNet classr= ooms, which
>> are in a parking-place-challenged neighborhood),>> maybe other classrooms or office spaces? maybe
>> even your house? And other times. For me, for now,
>>= weekday mornings work great, as do occasional
>> Tuesday or Thurs= day evenings.
>>    Holler if you want alterna= tives: send your email
>> to the sf-lug@linuxma= fia.com mailing list and maybe
>> we'll get some discussion, e= ven agreement.
>> jim
>
> I'm not sure how many people= show up to these meetings (I haven't been
> to one yet), but I could make arrangements to meet at SFSU. Its on= MUNI
> M-line.
>
> Sameer
>
> --
> Dr.= Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Asst. Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
&= gt; http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> <= a href=3D"http://opensource.sfsu.edu/">http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
&= gt;


_______________________________________________
sf-lug maili= ng list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linu= xmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



--
John Lowry
<= br> ------=_Part_1806_11907468.1140372635945-- From jim@well.com Thu Feb 23 08:01:59 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:54174) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCIub-0007yB-Qh for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:01:59 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1NG1hvR013597 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:01:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <08A20EBD-A486-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:04:13 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1299/Thu Feb 23 03:19:52 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [Balug-talk] PenLUG tomorrow!! Topic: PHP (TONIGHT) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:02:00 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2148 Lines: 49 Here's something from the balug bunch: > > WHO: Jack Herrington > WHAT: PHP Application Development Fundamentals, with a few tips and > tricks thrown in > WHEN: Thursday, Feb. 23, 7-9pm > WHERE: Open Country, 1301 Shoreway Rd Suite 211, Belmont, CA 94002 > WHY: To learn and socialize with other fans of Linux and open source > > NEW LOCATION: Note that since last month we are now meeting at the > offices of Open Country in Belmont, who are also graciously providing > us with FREE FOOD and BEVERAGES so bring your appetite as well. > > NEW ROOM: We will be meeting in a new, larger room, in a different > part of the building from last month. Be sure to pay attention to > directions given at the entrance when you arrive. > > Our topic is "PHP" and the scheduled speaker is Jack Herrington, > author of several books including "PHP Hacks" from O'Reilly. Jack > says: "I'll cover the basics of PHP; how it works, the fundamentals of > the syntax and the language design. Then I'll cover how to develop > robust web applications using the built-in functions and objects, as > well as libraries freely available through the PEAR network. Time will > be left at the end of the presentation for questions and answers." > > Jack Herrington is an software engineer and author. He has written > three books; Code Generation in Action, Podcasting Hacks and PHP > Hacks. He writes a PHP series on IBM's Developerworks site, as well as > articles on a variety of topics for other sources. He also podcasts > for O'Reilly and edits the Code Generation Network. He lives in Union > City, California with his wife Lori, daughter Megan, and dogs Oso and > Sadie. In his spare time Jack reviews technology books and is ranked > the #150 reviewer in the world on Amazon.com. > > RSVP: not required, but send a note to rsvp@penlug.org if you can, so > we have an idea of how many people to expect. > > > -- > Help bring back the San Jose Earthquakes - > http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ > _______________________________________________ > balug-talk mailing list > balug-talk@lists.balug.org > http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-talk-balug.org > From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 08:11:49 2006 Received: from web53615.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.182]:33473) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCJ3c-0008DA-6k for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:11:48 -0800 Received: (qmail 60351 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2006 16:10:59 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=5rn4nu6YIqCsGmNL+wMPiXZ4qKWEyLrxlGC/VnYkyW6JhM794q4Gy1VSUVLstpWQRoh84+Da/0rsEQ4kQB+m61F8YxmAif3sj+x167fYlZZAH+UZTfNRFzhR9BkuHt5V6DK/348AhVkY53Jb0wO+etA1mUWbKKQXL21H1fyW5c0= ; Message-ID: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.24] by web53615.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:10:59 PST Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" , "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.39.182 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-495707138-1140711059=:59907" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:11:49 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11928 Lines: 118 --0-495707138-1140711059=:59907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This might be interesting. Cate wrote: To: , From: Cate Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800 Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. Hi All Wowser¹s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax. Mon., Feb. 27, 6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA Designing for Ajax Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present: Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax. Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich Internet Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on the web with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns. These patterns form a vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these patterns are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the prevalence of Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns and design caveats. This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding of >>> more: http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=&eventdesc=full Location: Expression Center for New Media 6601 Shellmound St Classroom 300 Emeryville, CA 94608 Preregister: http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old= Walk-ins accepted SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE. Send your URL to Cate at: webdev@eBig.org. 6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration 7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions 7:15-8:30 Presentation 8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes! We are always looking for great speakers. Contact us if you would like to speak. Web Development SIG The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, group discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of usable and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and the supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these digital devises and how people interface with them. Be well, Cate Calson Chair, WebDev-Design Group http://www.eBig.org -------------------------- http://www.CalsonGraphics.com Web/Graphic Design Services [ burn bright ] [ it's your right ] -------------------------- Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html SPONSORED LINKS Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-495707138-1140711059=:59907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This might be interesting.

Cate <ccal@calsongraphics.com> wrote:
To: <nancy_tubbs@fullcalendar.com>, <new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com>
From: Cate <ccal@calsongraphics.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800
Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great
user experience.

Hi All Wowser¹s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.    Mon., Feb. 27,
6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA

Designing for Ajax

Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present:
Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax.

Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich Internet
Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on the web
with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns. These patterns form a
vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these patterns
are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the prevalence of
Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns and
design caveats.

This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding of >>>
more:
http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=&eventdesc=full

Location:
Expression Center for New Media
6601 Shellmound St
Classroom 300
Emeryville, CA 94608


Preregister: http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=18&EventID=712&old=
Walk-ins accepted

SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.  Send your URL to Cate at:
webdev@eBig.org.

6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration
7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions
7:15-8:30 Presentation
8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes!

We are always looking for great speakers.  Contact us if you would like to
speak.
Web Development SIG
The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at
Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, group
discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of usable
and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and the
supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful
observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these digital
devises and how people interface with them.

Be well,

Cate Calson
Chair, WebDev-Design Group
http://www.eBig.org


--------------------------
http://www.CalsonGraphics.com
Web/Graphic Design Services
[  burn bright   ]
[ it's your right ]
--------------------------

Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html



SPONSORED LINKS
Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access
Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




--0-495707138-1140711059=:59907-- From jim@well.com Thu Feb 23 08:35:43 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:57315) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCJQh-0008Is-QM for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:35:42 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1NGYujR027641; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:34:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060223161059.60349.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 08:37:25 -0800 To: vincent polite X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1299/Thu Feb 23 03:19:52 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-21--803311484 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:35:44 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 10737 Lines: 478 --Apple-Mail-21--803311484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Thanks. If I can go, you wanna ride with me? Should I do the following up to present some kind of linux talk or are you my advocate with the WOWsers? Say, are we on for tonight (I'm just assuming maybe because of previous dates)? There's the PHP talk tonight down the peninsula; i might go to that. You and I could meet at 6 for a bit, then me drive you home or we both go check out the talk. More thanks for the note, jim 415 823 4590 On Feb 23, 2006, at 8:10 AM, vincent polite wrote: > This might be interesting. > > Cate wrote: > To: , > From: Cate > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800 > Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a = great > user experience. > > Hi All Wowser=C2=B9s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Mon., =20 > Feb. 27, > 6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA > > Designing for Ajax > > Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present: > Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax. > > Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich =20 > Internet > Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on =20= > the web > with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns =20= > form a > vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these =20 > patterns > are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the =20 > prevalence of > Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns =20= > and > design caveats. > > This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding =20= > of >>> > more: > =20 > http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?=20 > SIGid=3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D&eventdesc=3Dfull > > Location: > Expression Center for New Media > 6601 Shellmound St > Classroom 300 > Emeryville, CA 94608 > > > Preregister: =20 > http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D > Walk-ins accepted > > SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.=C2=A0 Send your URL = to Ca! =20 > te at: > webdev@eBig.org. > > 6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration > 7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions > 7:15-8:30 Presentation > 8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes! > > We are always looking for great speakers.=C2=A0 Contact us if you = would =20 > like to > speak. > Web Development SIG > The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at > Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, =20= > group > discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of =20= > usable > and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and = =20 > the > supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful > observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these =20 > digital > devises and how people interface with them. > > Be well, > > Cate Calson > Chair, WebDev-Design Group > http://www.eBig.org > > ! > -------------------------- > http://www.CalsonGraphics.com > Web/Graphic Design Services > [=C2=A0 burn bright=C2=A0=C2=A0 ] > [ it's your right ] > -------------------------- > > > > > Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) =20= > (intro) (job) (tech) > More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post > Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or =20 > http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > ! > > Computer internet security > Computer internet business > Computer internet access > > Computer internet privacy securities > ! Computer internet help > Computer internet connection > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. > =C2=A0 > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email to: > =C2=A0new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > =C2=A0 > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to = the Yahoo! Terms of =20 > Service. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-21--803311484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=UTF-8 Thanks. If I can go, you wanna ride with me?=20 Should I do the following up to present some=20 kind of linux talk or are you my advocate with=20 the WOWsers?=20 Say, are we on for tonight (I'm just assuming=20 maybe because of previous dates)?=20 There's the PHP talk tonight down the=20 peninsula; i might go to that. You and I could=20 meet at 6 for a bit, then me drive you home or=20 we both go check out the talk.=20 More thanks for the note,=20 jim=20 415 823 4590=20 On Feb 23, 2006, at 8:10 AM, vincent polite wrote: This might be interesting. Cate < wrote: To: <, < From: Cate < Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800 Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. Hi All Wowser=C2=B9s. I have lined up a great speaker on = Ajax.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mon., Feb. 27, 6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA Designing for Ajax Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present: Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax. Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich Internet Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on the web with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns form a vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these patterns are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the prevalence of Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns and design caveats. This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding of >>> more: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid= =3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D&eventdesc=3Dfull Location: Expression Center for New Media 6601 Shellmound St Classroom 300 Emeryville, CA 94608 Preregister: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid= =3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D Walk-ins accepted SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.=C2=A0 Send your = URL to Ca! te at: webdev@eBig.org. 6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration 7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions 7:15-8:30 Presentation 8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes! We are always looking for great speakers.=C2=A0 Contact us if = you would like to speak. Web Development SIG The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, group discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of usable and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and the supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these digital devises and how people interface with them. Be well, Cate Calson Chair, WebDev-Design Group = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.eBig.org ! -------------------------- = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.CalsonGraphics.com Web/Graphic Design Services [=C2=A0 burn bright=C2=A0=C2=A0 ] [ it's your right ] -------------------------- =20 Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html=20 =20 9090,9090,9090SPONSORED LINKS9090,9090,9090 ! 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet security=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet business=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet access=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet privacy securities=20 ! 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet help=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet connection=20 9090,9090,9090YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS9090,9090,9090 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0Visit your group "0000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow" on the = web. =C2=A0 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = =C2=A00000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow-unsubscribe@yah= oogroups.com =C2=A0 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of = Service. =20 _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-21--803311484-- From jim@well.com Thu Feb 23 11:00:45 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:39882) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCLh6-0003LP-Ee for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:00:44 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1NIxxxU005191 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:59:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:02:29 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1299/Thu Feb 23 03:19:52 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-23--794607103 Subject: Fwd: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:00:45 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 10759 Lines: 466 --Apple-Mail-23--794607103 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed This coming Monday evening in Emoryville... Thanks to Vince for this info! Begin forwarded message: > From: vincent polite > Date: February 23, 2006 8:10:59 AM PST > To: "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" , =20 > "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" > Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, =20= > Crafting a great user experience. > > This might be interesting. > > Cate wrote: > To: , > From: Cate > Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800 > Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a = great > user experience. > > Hi All Wowser=C2=B9s. I have lined up a great speaker on Ajax.=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Mon., =20 > Feb. 27, > 6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA > > Designing for Ajax > > Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present: > Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax. > > Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich =20 > Internet > Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on =20= > the web > with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns =20= > form a > vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these =20 > patterns > are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the =20 > prevalence of > Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns =20= > and > design caveats. > > This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding =20= > of >>> > more: > =20 > http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?=20 > SIGid=3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D&eventdesc=3Dfull > > Location: > Expression Center for New Media > 6601 Shellmound St > Classroom 300 > Emeryville, CA 94608 > > > Preregister: =20 > http://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid=3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D > Walk-ins accepted > > SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.=C2=A0 Send your URL = to Ca! =20 > te at: > webdev@eBig.org. > > 6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration > 7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions > 7:15-8:30 Presentation > 8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes! > > We are always looking for great speakers.=C2=A0 Contact us if you = would =20 > like to > speak. > Web Development SIG > The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at > Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, =20= > group > discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of =20= > usable > and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and = =20 > the > supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful > observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these =20 > digital > devises and how people interface with them. > > Be well, > > Cate Calson > Chair, WebDev-Design Group > http://www.eBig.org > > ! > -------------------------- > http://www.CalsonGraphics.com > Web/Graphic Design Services > [=C2=A0 burn bright=C2=A0=C2=A0 ] > [ it's your right ] > -------------------------- > > > > > Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) =20= > (intro) (job) (tech) > More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post > Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or =20 > http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > ! > > Computer internet security > Computer internet business > Computer internet access > > Computer internet privacy securities > ! Computer internet help > Computer internet connection > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. > =C2=A0 > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an = email to: > =C2=A0new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > =C2=A0 > > =E2=96=AA =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to = the Yahoo! Terms of =20 > Service. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-23--794607103 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=UTF-8 This coming Monday evening in Emoryville...=20 Thanks to Vince for this info!=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: vincent polite < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 23, 2006 8:10:59 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" <, "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" < 0000,0000,0000Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. This might be interesting. Cate < wrote: To: <, < From: Cate < Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:10:38 -0800 Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) 2/27, Designing for Ajax, Crafting a great user experience. Hi All Wowser=C2=B9s. I have lined up a great speaker on = Ajax.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Mon., Feb. 27, 6:30-9 PM, Emeryville, CA Designing for Ajax Bill Scott, Yahoo!'s Ajax Evangelist, will present: Designing for Ajax - Crafting a great user experience with Ajax. Designing for Ajax, Principles and Patterns for Designing Rich Internet Applications. His presentation pulls together what is happening on the web with Ajax into a set of high level design patterns! . These patterns form a vocabulary for designers and developers alike. Underpinning these patterns are nine principles for rich design that have emerged with the prevalence of Ajax. Each of the principles are explored with illustrating patterns and design caveats. This is a very practical talk that will provide you an understanding of >>> more: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid= =3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D&eventdesc=3Dfull Location: Expression Center for New Media 6601 Shellmound St Classroom 300 Emeryville, CA 94608 Preregister: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.ebig.org/sig/sig.aspx?SIGid= =3D18&EventID=3D712&old=3D Walk-ins accepted SUBMIT YOUR PROJECT: FOR PEER TO PEER CRITIQUE.=C2=A0 Send your = URL to Ca! te at: webdev@eBig.org. 6:30-7:00 Snack, Networking & Registration 7:00-7:15 Announcements & Introductions 7:15-8:30 Presentation 8:30-9:00 Q&A and RAFFLE for prizes! We are always looking for great speakers.=C2=A0 Contact us if = you would like to speak. Web Development SIG The eBig Web Development SIG meets the 4th Monday of every month at Ex'pression College for Digital Arts. Meetings offer guest speakers, group discussions, and networking opportunities focusing on the Design of usable and appealing web sites, digital appliances and hand-held devices and the supporting applications and software. Look forward to insightful observations into the ways we can effect the direction of these digital devises and how people interface with them. Be well, Cate Calson Chair, WebDev-Design Group = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.eBig.org ! -------------------------- = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.CalsonGraphics.com Web/Graphic Design Services [=C2=A0 burn bright=C2=A0=C2=A0 ] [ it's your right ] -------------------------- =20 Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfa= q.html=20 =20 9090,9090,9090SPONSORED LINKS9090,9090,9090 ! 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet security=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet business=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet access=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet privacy securities=20 ! 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet help=20 0000,0000,EEEEComputer internet connection=20 9090,9090,9090YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS9090,9090,9090 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0Visit your group "0000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow" on the = web. =C2=A0 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: = =C2=A00000,0000,EEEEnew-sfwow-unsubscribe@yah= oogroups.com =C2=A0 Lucida = Grande=E2=96=AA =C2=A0Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the 0000,0000,EEEEYahoo! Terms of = Service. =20 _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-23--794607103-- From jim@well.com Thu Feb 23 12:15:08 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:49031) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCMrb-00041m-K0 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:15:07 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1NKEuX0008906 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:14:57 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <68064474-A4A9-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:17:26 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1299/Thu Feb 23 03:19:52 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Sybase wants to give us stuff X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:15:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1340 Lines: 39 (I, jim, will send Patrick my home address and after his package arrives send email and bring all the booty to the subsequent meeting.) Hello, I am sending this note to offer to you and your User Group some promotional items to give away at your next User Group meeting. My name is Patrick Enright and I manage Sybase's WorldWide Developer Programs. http://www.sybase.com/developer I would like to send you a package of software, Journals, diagrams & tshirts that you can give to your members for attending your next meeting. I am interested in spreading the word of Sybase on Linux and that is why Iam reaching out to the User Groups directly. You can feel free to sign up for the Sybase Developer Network at the link above and kick the tires of all of Sybase's software. I would also add that within the Sybase Developer Network we have a community-based development environment called CodeXchange, sf-lug members are more than welcome to visit that site to view other folks contributions and if they like, even start their own projects. Please provide me a shipping address to send the box of items and I will send them to you. In addition, if you ever would like a speaker and/or additional content for your meetings I can certainly provide that for you as well. Sincerely, Patrick Enright Patrick.Enright@sybase.com 202.256.8054 From jim@well.com Thu Feb 23 12:23:28 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:50117) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCMzT-00044H-TX for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:23:27 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1NKN5Bl012508 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:23:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <8B459EFE-A4AA-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:25:34 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1300/Thu Feb 23 07:55:11 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] RedHat and Fedora news, Nashville summit, roadshow X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 20:23:28 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5954 Lines: 164 (I, jim, like RedHat fairly well. * I'll answer his questions about our group as best I can--feel free to do so, too, if you wish, or tell me what to say. Fedora Core 5 looks full of stuff--can anybody explain what's real good about Mono? It has something to do with Microsoft, so I hate it, but sometimes I'm wrong. * I think I'm definitely going to the May Nashville summit--May is bar-b-que time in the old south, especially in Tennessee; I hope to make it to the various cookout contests. * As to the proposed roadshow, it makes best sense to me that the various Northern California LUGs get together to coordinate a single, common roadshow event. What do you think? -------------here's greg's (fairly long) message------------- Hi. My name is Greg DeKoenigsberg. I work for Red Hat. I've got some news for you, and I've also got a favor to ask. On to the purpose of my note. It's threefold: 1. I'd like to let you know about current goings-on in Fedora. 2. I'd like to let you know about the Red Hat Summit. 3. I'd like to ask for your input about a possible Fedora roadshow. === First, Fedora. There's been a lot of work going on in the Fedora community; some of it you might know about, and some of it you might not know about. We're getting ready to release Fedora Core 5 in the next couple of months. It's been the culmination of a particularly long release cycle, as we change the way that we do some things at a deep level. Some of the more visible features: * Modular X, anaconda changes, more Xen code and some XGL-ish stuff; * New GNOME, new OpenOffice, new Firefox and more, pulling all the latest from upstream projects; * New Mono-based applications, including Beagle, Tomboy and F-Spot. We've also got a bunch of community initiatives going, and we're ramping up even more: * Fedora Extras. The community-led Extras project, which launched officially last February, is now maintaining over 3000 software packages in yum repositories mirrored worldwide. The number of available packages continues to grow -- as does the number of contributors. Learn more at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras. * Fedora Documentation. The Docs project is producing release notes, HOWTOs and other crucial documentation to help Fedora users make the most out of Fedora. All of the documentation is available under the OPL with no restrictions. Learn more at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject. * Fedora Ambassadors. As the open source story continues to grow stronger, we're looking for more and more people to tell that story. The Ambassadors project provides people with the information and tools to spread the story far and wide, from presentation decks to T-shirts to Fedora DVDs. Learn more at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors. * Fedora Mentors. It can be difficult to "get started" in the world of open source development, and sometimes the most important thing is just to know that someone will answer your stupid questions without giving you a lot of heat. The Mentors project seeks knowledgeable developers who can give a couple of hours a week on IRC to help the newbies along. Learn more at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mentors. With more projects coming online all the time, there's never been a better chance to be involved in the future of Fedora. For general information about how to get ' involved, spend some time at http://fedoraproject.org. === Second, the Red Hat Summit. This is basically a straight-up sales pitch: come join us in Nashville from May 30 - June 2, 2006. Specifically for LUG members, the cost of attendance is $699, which includes a hotel room for four nights, meals, and attendance at the Red Hat sessions and evening entertainment events. It's a unique opportunity to meet some of the real luminaries of the open source world firsthand, and to talk with them about their areas of deep knowledge. For those of you who are accustomed to attending these sorts of events, you will realize that this price is a *very* good deal. Lots of technical sessions, lots of fun. You can find the full track list at http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/tracks. So why is the LUG deal so good? The deal for regular business types is basically $500 more. The deep price break is because we want to see community people there. Despite the fact that we're making a little money now, we can't afford to bring people to Nashville and put them up for nothing -- but we can at least give some deep discounts to our friends. That's you. You are important, and if you can figure out how to make it there, we definitely want you there. Feel free to contact me for more information, or go to the Summit site at http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit. === Third, I'd like to gauge your interest in a Fedora roadshow. As I mentioned before, Fedora Core 5 is scheduled for release in late March. (Or maybe later -- you know how these things go.) We're looking to put together a tour sometime between FUDCon Boston 2006 (April 7th) and the Red Hat Summit, and I'd like to hear if you'd be interested in having a Fedora presentation at your LUG. There's obviously a huge number of LUGs and a fairly limited number of dates, and we'd have to figure out how to make such a tour work. Therefore, if you are interested in a Fedora visit, here's what I'll need to know: * How many people do you generally get at your LUG? * What meeting times/dates are available for you in April or May? Are you limited to the LUG meeting days, or would you be willing to call a special session? * What general Fedora-related topics might you want to hear about more in-depth? I'll be happy to field responses, and if we get enough interest, we'll start planning a tour in earnest in the next couple of weeks. === So, that's it. Thanks for reading through this whole long letter. Feel free to drop me a line at gdk@redhat.com if you have any questions. Looking forward to hearing from you. --g From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 15:16:53 2006 Received: from web53613.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.180]:26310) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCPhY-0005CE-M9 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:16:52 -0800 Received: (qmail 19160 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2006 23:16:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=geeX2yn+sRZ9MQM2VGx/frsl8Ac7unzVJP8G+kPRO1q8sR6jgBgjQ/yN69spmjMF5BaqHAXFS7W1StdEjwZkg82ZxKXxzoseU2zOKRofe0C44jC8YCbC0hvz5IhVM6HAO9Nk3xEuWk3llpU3apV5LXsmTlL/Dh5+1YXcS+IaAz4= ; Message-ID: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web53613.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:16:40 PST Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:16:40 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , christian , Adam Doxtater MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.39.180 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1037232114-1140736600=:19125" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Look what I found... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:16:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 608 Lines: 13 --0-1037232114-1140736600=:19125 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share.. --0-1037232114-1140736600=:19125 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
--0-1037232114-1140736600=:19125-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Feb 23 15:33:12 2006 Received: from web53615.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.182]:47374) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FCPxL-0005FL-JT for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:33:11 -0800 Received: (qmail 12542 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Feb 2006 23:32:58 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=BgoWGfET+ebVlhM0tBKKTHpsyg0U7yCAczm4pAqKGk42v8A01LuB77CclEuQXnwZwgz0wamd08scBF2rezt9UP/4qPpYiiPx6HBtQmUBcq4VA9Qqxb3URmRJj0oi6vHwBx098cmU1qqFpMXOy4g0BPPtvnndsadwUlyoBe/xp3o= ; Message-ID: <20060223233258.12540.qmail@web53615.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web53615.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:32:58 PST Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:32:58 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , christian , Adam Doxtater MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.39.182 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_SHORT_LENGTH autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1048200880-1140737578=:12017" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Me again..This is funny... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:33:13 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 426 Lines: 13 --0-1048200880-1140737578=:12017 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Checkout the penguin at the bottom of the page...http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/ --0-1048200880-1140737578=:12017 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Checkout the penguin at the bottom of the page...http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/
--0-1048200880-1140737578=:12017-- From einfeldt@gmail.com Fri Feb 24 14:21:05 2006 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.195]:1968) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FClIx-0005IF-9a for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:21:05 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 14so471333nzn for ; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:20:45 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=g3UYj5KjiosIRdhMG62YhvX0vxc84jwf/WU6lXEWXoFs+GsohlQhsYBLjU4pGNOZSF2ssRw7UF3AJ6yyE7t5OGHUFjsFcfw3TBb8LgUtfgf9Wr+NfXEVtzcNCqCNCiMMb1gQvYx0tIO56Ha3McDSaIdVls/GIKrEUqwV0FagcfY= Received: by 10.35.99.17 with SMTP id b17mr122298pym; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:20:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.14 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:20:45 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:20:45 -0800 From: "Christian Einfeldt" To: "vincent polite" In-Reply-To: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of einfeldt@gmail.com designates 64.233.162.195 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.162.195 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: einfeldt@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_19264_6022063.1140819645652" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:07:36 -0800 Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , Adam Doxtater Subject: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:21:06 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2728 Lines: 56 ------=_Part_19264_6022063.1140819645652 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Vince, On 2/23/06, vincent polite wrote: > > Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina > Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share.. > Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open sourc= e software. In the future, most software will be downloaded from sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens. ibiblio is one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen calls a disruptive channel. As open source disrupts Microsoft's business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft business hub, IMHO. To me, this change in the industry is one of the most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with each other. ------=_Part_19264_6022063.1140819645652 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi Vince,

On 2/23/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina Chap= el Hill..(for something I can't go to..) http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
=20

Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open source software.  In the future, most software will be downloaded from sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens.  ibiblio is one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen calls a disruptive channel.  As open source disrupts Microsoft's business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft business hub, IMHO.  To me, this change in the industry is one of the most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with each other.
------=_Part_19264_6022063.1140819645652-- From jim@well.com Sat Feb 25 10:34:59 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:49327) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FD4Ff-0006l4-5N for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:34:58 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1PIYZSX012784; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:34:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com> <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:37:06 -0800 To: "Christian Einfeldt" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-32--623330952 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found... X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , Adam Doxtater X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 18:34:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3203 Lines: 113 --Apple-Mail-32--623330952 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping point film documenting the open source phenomenon. Their web site has some great info and links: http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/ On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > Hi Vince, > > On 2/23/06, vincent polite wrote: > Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina=20= > Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..)=20 > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share.. > > > Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open=20= > source software.=A0 In the future, most software will be downloaded = from=20 > sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens.=A0 ibiblio is=20= > one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen=20 > calls a disruptive channel.=A0 As open source disrupts Microsoft's=20 > business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in=20= > the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft=20 > business hub, IMHO.=A0 To me, this change in the industry is one of = the=20 > most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will=20= > result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with=20 > each other. > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-32--623330952 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping=20 point film documenting the open source=20 phenomenon. Their web site has some=20 great info and links:=20 http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/ On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: Hi Vince,=20 On 2/23/06, vincent polite = <<0000,0000,EEEEvpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com>= wrote: Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share.. Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open source software.=A0 In the future, most software will be downloaded from sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens.=A0 ibiblio is one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen calls a disruptive channel.=A0 As open source disrupts Microsoft's business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft business hub, IMHO.=A0 To me, this change in the industry is one of the most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with each other.=20 _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-32--623330952-- From jim@well.com Sat Feb 25 11:04:54 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:51135) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FD4il-00070s-0v for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:04:53 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1PJ4icL023045 for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:04:44 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:07:14 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] check out the prototype sf-lug web site X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:04:54 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1484 Lines: 43 Check out our prototype, under construction web site pages. First see http://www.sf-lug.org Second scroll to the bottom of the page. Third click the test link to see the prototype of the revised sf-lug.org web page(s). All members are welcome to contribute to this project (good for developing your resume or feeling good about helping out or...). Send an email request to jim@well.com for an ssh login account (sf=96lug members can have ssh login accounts for any reasonable reason). The host is CentOS-based, which is build from RedHat Enterprise Linux 4 source code. Many thanks to Vincent Polite and Mark Summer for their work on this prototype web page. Vince has done the design, Mark wrote the code to update the meeting date info. Vince is one of the founding members of sf-lug and specializes in web design: http://home.covad.net/~vpolite/ Mark is one of the honchos of Inveneo: http://www.inveneo.org/ which designs, builds, and delivers highly reliable, low power, low cost computer systems for remote regions: "solutions worldwide that are open, sustainable and affordable." They are always looking for volunteers. The technologies they deal with range from software to Debian Linux systems to computer hardware components to wi-fi to VoIP to low-energy power sources.... If you want to develop your techie resume, consider volunteering with this group: their team is high quality and they have real credibility in the industry. From jim@well.com Sun Feb 26 07:40:11 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:45607) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FDNxS-0005bJ-Qu for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:40:10 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k1QFb7Aj013181 for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:37:07 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <1838252E-A6DE-11DA-818A-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:39:37 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1304/Sun Feb 26 03:47:28 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-40--547579157 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:44:15 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, February 24 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:40:11 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 84205 Lines: 2787 --Apple-Mail-40--547579157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed A lot of info in this, a lot of it interesting Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: February 24, 2006 2:58:30 PM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, February 24 > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders > February 24, 2006 > ================================================================ > -Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design group? > -RSS Feed Now Available on ug.oreilly.com > -Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? > -Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book > -Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book > -Promotional Material Available > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book Info > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Review Books are Available > Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- > send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on > your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. > Allow at least four weeks for shipping. > > > ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews > Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. > For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: > > > ***Discount Information > Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on > O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, > SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG. > > ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available > Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in > touch with our sales department. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > General News or Inquiries > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design Group? > We are looking for creative groups or associations to join our > program. Feel free to pass my name along or send me an email. > > ***RSS Feed now available on the ug.oreilly.com > To sign up, go to: > > > For more information on RSS or Atom Feeds at O'Reilly, go to: > > > ***Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? > We can include it in the news section of our user group page and RSS > Feed. Send me a short description and a URL. > > ***Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the > O'Reilly book of your choice. > > ETech Banners: > > > ***Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book > of your choice. > > MySQL Users Conference: > > > ***Promotional Material Available: > The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know > the > item and the amount you'd like): > > -Photoshop World Expo Passes, MIami, FL--March 23 (print or PDF > available) > -MAKE Magazine Volume 5 (limit one copy per group) > -30% UG Discount bookmarks > -ETech Conference brochures > -MySQL Conference brochures > -Where 2.0 Conference brochures > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly News for User Group Members > February 24, 2006 > ================================================================ > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-On > -Analyzing Business Data with Excel > -Building Extreme PCs > -Degunking Your Home > -DJ Handbook, Second Edition > -DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish > -Fixing Access Annoyances > -Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances > -Flickr Hacks > -How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004 > -Learning C# 2005, Second Edition > -Logic Pro Tips and Tricks > -Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition > -The Mac Tiger Server Black Book > -MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05 > -Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook > -Programming SQL Server 2005 > -Repairing and Upgrading Your PC > -Security Log Management > -VB 2005 Black Book > -Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition > -Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition > -Web Site Cookbook > -Wicked Cool Perl Scripts > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Upcoming Events > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers > Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24 > -O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow, > Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 > -O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27 > -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar, > Orlando, FL--March 1 > -Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson, > Pacifica, CA--March 9-12 > -O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14 > -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006, > San Diego, CA--March 15 > -RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson, > Pacifica, CA--March 18 > -Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage, > Corte Madera, CA--March 18 > -Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22 > -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, > San Francisco, CA--March 21 > -Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Conference News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Where 2.0 Registration is Open > -MySQL Registration is Open > -ETech Registration is Open > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots > -Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment > -Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology > -Latest Titles available on O'Reilly Rough Cuts > -Introducing Lua > -Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster > -Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble > -What's New in iWork '06? > -Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV > -Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2 > -Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3 > -A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned > -O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course > -Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First > -Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS > -Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each > Other's Toys > -Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting > Differently > -Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear > and > How to Avoid and Fix Errors > -Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost > -O'Reilly Photography Learning Center > -Speak Your Mind on Digital Media > -Calling All Makers! > -Meet Your Fellow Makers > > ================================================ > Book News > ================================================ > Did you know you can request a free book to review for your > group? Ask your group leader for more information. > > For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: > > > Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, > Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress > book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. > Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. > > > ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at > least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer > applies to US delivery addresses in the fifty states and Puerto Rico. > For more details, go to: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > New Releases > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-One > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100973 > This unique, hands-on book comes with two hours of video instruction > (hosted by Deke McClelland himself) on DVD to get you working with > InDesign right away, building relevant, real-world projects while > mastering fundamental and advanced concepts, theory, best practices, > and techniques for making the most of InDesign--to make the most of > your page designs. > > > ***Analyzing Business Data with Excel > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100736 > Learn how to apply Excel's advanced data analysis features to solve > real-world business problems. This hands-on reference targets specific > business situations, then demonstrates how to create spreadsheets for > these problem areas. Topics include statistics, pivot tables, workload > forecasting, modeling, queuing, data importing, and more. Perfect for > professional Excel users working in an office environment. > > > ***Building Extreme PCs > The Complete Guide to Modding and Custom PCs > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101368 > "Building Extreme PCs" is the ultimate guide to the world of PC > modification and customization. Both a showcase and a DIY handbook, it > goes in-depth into system building, overclocking, cooling, and > modification, reveals the secrets of optimization and benchmarking, > then > moves on to cover some of the most exciting and inspirational > custom built systems around. From silent systems to multi-processor > monsters, from gaming powerhouses to neon-lit speed machines, this book > has it all, complete with guidance from the people who made them. > > > ***Degunking Your Home > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > January 2006 > ISBN: 1933097116 > Do you find yourself in one or more of these situations--you're > constantly losing your car keys, the "junk" room has threatened to take > over your house, or you can't remember the last time you could quickly > find something in the garage? Then you need to get organized quickly > and > degunk! Author Joli Ballew will show you how simple it is to declutter, > organize, make your home really work for you, and keep it looking great > with her easy and time-saving 12-step program. Even if you have a busy > and hectic life, you can keep your home organized and clean. > > > ***DJ Handbook, Second Edition > Publisher: PC Publishing > ISBN: 1870775996 > Written by a working DJ who's been there and done that, "The DJ > Handbook" > is an essential read for every DJ. You'll find advice on choosing > equipment (microphones, decks, cartridges, headphones, speakers, and > the > rest), as well as setting it all up and getting the best sound out of > it--whatever the venue. Plus hands-on advice on transport, setting up > your sound system at the gig, dealing with punters, looking after > safety, > and troubleshooting your equipment. > > > ***DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596008481 > Written in an engaging, accessible style, "DV Filmmaking" provides a > solid > foundation of tremendous value to a beginner, while addressing the fine > points of filmmaking with a level of sophistication, detail, and > insight > that even the most worldly director or educator can appreciate. The > author draws upon his years of experience teaching at the college and > graduate level, his extensive professional background as a media > producer, and his unmistakable love of cinema to create a text that's > not only easy to learn from, but also fun to read. > > > ***Fixing Access Annoyances > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059600852X > Access is one of the easier and more flexible database management > solutions for organizing data. You could grab other books for help, but > do they solve problems from page one? Meet a book of a different stripe > where newcomers start off right and learn valuable methods for building > databases while seasoned pros gain efficiency. "Fixing Access > Annoyances" > saves time and bouts of hair pulling. > > > ***Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100043 > Microsoft PowerPoint is the most popular presentation software on the > planet. Since an estimated 30 million PowerPoint presentations are made > every day, no matter how frustrating it gets, you're not about to > chuck the program in the recycle bin. If you're vexed and perplexed by > PowerPoint, this new guide presents a variety of all-too-familiar, > real-world annoyances and smart solutions for every one of them. > > > ***Flickr Hacks > ISBN: 0596102453 > "Flickr Hacks" expands the fun and the utility of Flickr, Yahoo!'s > popular > digital photo-sharing service, by customizing this cutting-edge > technology to store, sort, and share photos. The book adopts the > game-like appeal of the Flickr site, in individual projects ranging > from > easy to advanced. Quick hacks show you how to post photos directly to > blogs and upload photos from a cellphone. Advanced hacks teach you to > use the Flickr API, make photo puzzles and collages, and geocode photos > to plot on a map. > > > ***How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004 > ISBN: 1597490571 > If deploying and managing ISA Server 2004 is just one of a hundred > responsibilities you have as a System Administrator, "How to Cheat at > Configuring ISA Server 2004" is the perfect book for you. Written by > Microsoft MVP Dr. Tom Shinder, this is a concise, accurate, enterprise > tested method for the successful deployment of an ISA Server. > > > ***Learning C# 2005, Second Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102097 > Completely revised to cover C# 2.0 and Visual Basic 2005, this > introductory guide offers a thorough introduction to Microsoft's > premier > .NET language. Discover how to develop various kinds of web services > and > applications--including those that work with databases. More than 200 > questions and programming exercises make mastering the essentials of > the > C# language easy and fun. > > > ***Logic Pro Tips and Tricks > Publisher: PC Publishing > ISBN: 1870775333 > The tips and tricks in this book are laid out in an easy to use format, > and will allow you to get the best from the program when recording, > editing, mixing, and mastering. There are sections on setting up, > optimizing, and organizing your workflow. You'll discover easy ways to > perform many complex tasks, and there's a plethora of other tips and > pointers that reveal many of Logic's 'hidden' functions. > > > ***Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > ISBN: 193309706X > "Looking Good in Print" is celebrating fifteen years in print with the > newest edition "Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition." This book has > grown over the years to become the "Bible" for desktop publishers and > it is widely used as the leading text for courses on desktop > publishing. > This new edition is updated and expanded to reflect the growing needs > of > desktop publishers who need to be proficient at creating documents > for both print and electronic publication and distribution. > > > ***The Mac Tiger Server Little Black Book > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > ISBN: 1933097140 > This unique black book guides you through all the aspects of the new > Mac > Tiger Server including understanding the Apple network, managing > network > access, and network protocols such as TCP/IP AppleTalk, and the OSI > model. It's jam-packed with hundreds of "how-to" tips to ensure that > servers are set up correctly and they operate as efficiently as > possible. > > > ***MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05 > ISBN: 0596523688 > Every issue of MAKE is packed with projects to help you make the most > of > all the technology in your life. Everything from home entertainment > systems, to laptops, to a host of PDAs is fair game. If there's a way > to > hack it, tweak it, bend it, or remix it, you will find out about it > here. > > > ***Mind Performance Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0-596-10153-8 > "Mind Performance Hacks" provides real-life tips and tools for > overclocking your brain and becoming a better thinker. In the > increasingly frenetic pace of today's information economy, managing > your > life requires hacking your brain. With this book, you'll cut through > the > clutter and tune up your brain intentionally, safely, and productively. > > > ***Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100620 > "Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook" tells you all you need to know to > turn your digital photographs into images that mimic the styles of > great > visual artists. From advice on how to choose appropriate subject matter > to 62 step-by-step recipes that show you how to create an "original" > van > Gogh, Vermeer, Edward Weston, or Andy Warhol (among others), this book > is an authentic guide to simulating the work of great artists-and a > whole lot of fun. > > > ***Programming SQL Server 2005 > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596004796 > Ideal for IT professionals of all stripes, this authoritative guide > introduces all facets of SQL Server 2005, Microsoft's next-generation > data management and analysis solution. The book explains all of its new > features, and shows you how they can help conquer a variety of data > challenges. Learn how to reduce the complexity of building, deploying > and managing database applications, and much more. > > > ***Repairing and Upgrading Your PC > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059600866X > Repairing and Upgrading Your PC delivers start-to-finish instructions, > simple enough for even the most inexperienced PC owner, for > troubleshooting, repairing, and upgrading your computer. Written by > hardware experts Robert Bruce Thompson and Barbara Fritchman Thompson, > this book covers it all: how to troubleshoot a troublesome PC, how to > identify which components make sense for an upgrade, and how to tear it > all down and put it back together. > > > ***Security Log Management > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597490423 > As a system administrator or security professional, you probably find > yourself inundated each day with a deluge of log files from seemingly > countless devices, servers, and applications on your network ranging > from Windows Server to Snort to your PIX firewall and everything in > between. This unique book will show you how to use a combination of > open source software such as Tcpdstats, and Snort perfmonitor to create > succinct, meaningful reports that give you the big picture of your > network's overall health and well being. So, if you need to analyze and > prioritize everything from how much of your bandwidth is devoted to > browsing ESPN.com, to the most targeted machines in your IDS logs, this > is the book for you. > > > ***VB 2005 Little Black Book > Publisher: Paraglyph Press > ISBN: 1933097086 > "Visual Basic 2005 Programming Little Black Book" is one of the first > comprehensive books that cover the new version of Visual Basic and the > development features of Microsoft's .NET platform in depth. The book > explains the major changes to VB and provides numerous tips and > practical solutions for developing applications. > > > ***Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059610152X > Newly updated, this classic detailed reference to the Visual Basic > programming language had been reorganized to cover all the ins and outs > of Visual Basic 2005, including new features like Generics, My > Namespace, and operators. An alphabetical reference to Visual Basic > 2005 > statements, procedures, functions, and objects makes sure you follow > along. Ideal for developers, programmers, and anyone learning VB as a > first language. > > > ***Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596009879 > Our popular reference, "Web Design in a Nutshell," has been completely > rewritten and expanded to reflect the state of the art in web > standards. > In addition to being an authoritative reference for (X)HTML and > Cascading Style Sheets, this book also provides an overview of the > unique requirements of designing for the Web and gets to the > nitty-gritty of JavaScript and DOM Scripting, web graphics > optimization, > and multimedia production. It is an indispensable tool for web > designers > and developers of all levels. > > > ***Web Site Cookbook > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101090 > This handy guide provides a wide range of solutions to real-life > problems that come up regularly when creating and growing a web site. > With recipes that teach both routine and advanced setup tasks, the book > includes clear and professional instruction on a host of topics. Learn > page design, visitor tracking, site promotion, and much more. > > > ***Wicked Cool Perl Scripts > Publisher: No Starch Press > ISBN: 1593270623 > Most Perl programmers have been frustrated at one time or another > because the system just wouldn't do what they wanted it to do. There > was > that one simple and obvious utility that was missing that would make > life so much easier. "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is about writing those > utilities quickly and easily. A collection of handy utilities that > solves difficult problems, "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is a great > resource for the savvy Perl programmer. > > > ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available > The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you > subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus > four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this > great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four. > Subscribe at: > > > ================================================ > Upcoming Events > ================================================ > ***For more events, please see: > http://events.oreilly.com/ > > ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers > Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24 > Author Julieanne Kost presents "Photoshop CS2--Tips and Tricks." > > > ***O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow, > Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 > Stop by our booth (#2117) to check out our digital media titles. > > > ***O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27 > The sixth Free and Open Source Software Developers' European Meeting is > organized by volunteers to promote the widespread use of free and open > source software. > > > ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar, > Orlando, FL--March 1 > Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital > Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. > > > ***Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson, > Pacifica, CA--March 9-12 > Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital > Photography") presents a four day workshop focusing exclusively on > fine-art digital printing, primarily using Epson inkjet printers. > Concentration will be on inkjet printing with color pigments and > black/gray ink combinations on coated and rag papers. Learn from the > digital pioneer how he obtains his impressive results during four days > of lectures, printing, and feedback in the studio. > > > ***O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14 > Authors Kathy Sierra ("Head First Java, Second Edition"), Peter > Morville > ("Ambient Findability"), and Jennifer Niederst Robbins ("Web Design in > a > Nutshell, Third Edition") will be there. Make sure you stop by our > booth > to check out our latest books. > > > ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006, > San Diego, CA--March 15 > Author Julieanne Kost presents "Adobe Photoshop CS2--Welcome Aboard." > > > ***RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson, > Pacifica, CA--March 18 > Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital > Photography") presents this one-day seminar explores this process with > Adobe's new Photoshop CS2 Camera Raw processor. > > > ***Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage, > Corte Madera, CA--March 18 > Photographer and author Mikkel Aaland disscusses and signs his newest > book. > > > ***Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22 > Microsoft's new MIX conference is for developers, designers, and > business > professionals who create consumer-oriented web sites. Hear Bill Gates, > Tim O'Reilly, and other industry leaders talk about the new and > unique experiences that can be delivered over the Web. > > > ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, > San Francisco, CA--March 21 > Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital > Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. > digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash> > > ***Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23 > Author Dru Lavigne (BSD Hacks) delivers the keynote as well as a talk > on > BSD Certification at this year's conference. > > > ================================================ > Conference News > ================================================ > ***Where 2.0 Early Registration is Open > The Where 2.0 Conference brings together the people, projects, and > issues leading the charge into the location-based technology frontier. > Join the developers, innovators, and business people behind the new era > of geospatial technology as they come together--because everything > happens somewhere, and it's all happening here. > > Where 2.0 Conference, June 13-14, 2006 > Fairmont Hotel, San Jose, CA > > > User Group members who register before April 24, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "whr06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > > ***MySQL Users Conference > Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest > gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event > where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over > 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one > roof. > > MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 > Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA > > > User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > > ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference > We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and > the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth > continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and > content > keeps spraying from the fire hose. How do we visualize all of this > digital data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? > The > coming technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we > have more than enough already. It's time to do something with that > data. > It's time to build The Attention Economy. > > O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006 > Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA > > > Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off > the registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > ================================================ > News From O'Reilly & Beyond > ================================================ > --------------------- > General News > --------------------- > ***A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots > Want to impress friends and family with professional-looking photos? > Professional photographer and best-selling author Derrick Story > provides > his favorite tip--using a flash setting--for taking great shots for > better skin tone, reduced texture in the face, and adding a twinkle to > the eyes. > taking-great-digital-shots.html> > > > ***Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment > After you install Quicken, you're only a few steps away from > experiencing the joys of electronic personal finance. Chapter 1 of > "Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual" gets you out of the > gate running, guiding you through launch, set up and the intricate > preferences. If you like this chapter, read the whole book (and up > to nine others) on Safari with a free trial subscription. > > > > ***Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology > O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called > Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge > technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to > purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. > For more information, go to: > > > Latest Titles Available: > > Perl Hacks > > > Ubuntu Hacks > > > Ajax Design Patterns > > > Java and XML, 3rd Edition > > > > --------------------- > Open Source > --------------------- > ***Introducing Lua > Scripting is highly important to extensible applications. Not only is > it > easier to write logic in higher-level languages, but it's often safer. > It can be effective, too--consider that World of Warcraft and > other games embed the Lua language and use it for scripts, AI, > configuration, and even user interface management. Why Lua? Keith > Fieldhouse introduces the language and explains why it's so > appropriate. > > > > ***Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster > Serious business services really can't go down, whether due to hardware > or software failures. If your necessary services rely on MySQL, > clustering and high availability can prevent failures. Kris Buytaert > shows how his group recently used MySQL Cluster and Heartbeat to > provide > redundant, failure-proof replication and availability of their data. > ha_mysql_cluster.html> > > > ***Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble > Metrix Pebble is a variant of the popular Pebble Linux distribution > that > adds a web-based configuration GUI, support for OLSRD and EVDO, > automatic generation of network flows, wireless users, and radio link > status graphs using rrdtool, and fits in just under 64MB of flash > memory. Rob Flickenger describes how to use Metrix Pebble to set up a > wireless mesh network. > with-metrix-pebble.html> > > --------------------- > Mac > --------------------- > ***What's New in iWork '06? > iWork's tandem offering of Pages and Keynote provides a useful > collection of tools for presentations, word processing, and layout. But > how much has changed since last year's debut? Giles Turnbull walks you > through Pages 2 and Keynote 3 to help decide if this upgrade is for > you. > > > > ***Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV > By digitizing your old VHS tapes, you can move them from taking up > precious shelf space to more readily available disk space. In this > article, Joe McMahon shows you a hack that lets you archive > full-quality > digital recordings from EyeTV to offline media, but still play them > back > easily in EyeTV. > > > --------------------- > Windows/.NET > --------------------- > ***Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2 > The long-awaited Beta 2 of IE 7 is finally here. What's new, good, and > better? Wei-Meng Lee gives you a guided tour and an inside look. > internet-explorer-7-beta-2.html> > > > ***Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3 > Jesse Liberty is creating an application from scratch in ASP.NET 2.0 > while you watch over his shoulder. In part 3, he builds the engine and > implements it. > application-from-scratch-part-3.html> > > --------------------- > Web > --------------------- > ***A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned > Think ecommerce web sites on the cheap are impossible? Find out how to > get a site off the ground for less than $2000. > earned/> > > > ***O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course > Keep on the cutting edge of web programming with our newly updated > HTML/CSS course, part of our hugely popular Web Programming Certificate > series through the University of Illinois Office of Continuing > Education. Keep your free O'Reilly books for reference, and your > Learning Lab account as an online portfolio. Pre-enroll in all six Web > Programming courses and get HTML/CSS free. Offer good through February > 28th. > > > > ***Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First > When designing a site, are you still creating the frontpage first? Find > out why this is a mistake, and a better way to approach it. > why-the-first-page-comes-last/> > > --------------------- > Java > --------------------- > ***Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS > Java Messaging Service (JMS) requires a lot of work to set up sessions > and manage messages, work that can distract you from your > application-specific logic. The Spring framework's SpringJMS offers a > simpler solution that keeps the JMS administration out of your face. > Srini Penchikala takes a look. > with-spring-jms.html> > > > ***Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each Other's > Toys > Convincing your colleagues and clients to consider a RESTful approach > to > SOAP is difficult when the accepted standard is SOAP-style services. In > this article, Jason R. Briggs introduces a SOAP interface that can be > used to deliver SOAP messages from REST resources. > > to-rest.html> > > --------------------- > Podcasts > --------------------- > ***Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting > Differently > Rael Dornfest and Tim O'Reilly continue their preview of next month's > Emerging Technology conference, Bruno Souza talks to us about Java in > Brazil, conference photographer James Duncan Davidson discusses his > art, > and "Why the Lucky Stiff" shows us that conference presentations can be > much more creative than they tend to be. (DTF 02-17-2006: 28 minutes 37 > seconds) > future.html> > > > ***Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear > and How to Avoid and Fix Errors > Listen in as Jack Herrington, the author of "Podcasting Hacks," chats > with pioneer podcasters Doug Kaye and James Polanco. Doug is the > founder > of IT Conversations, the influential site that features podcasts > covering important events, programs, and interviews with industry > luminaries. James is the founder of "Fake Science," the popular podcast > radio show covering all things digital music--news, reviews, and > profiles of digital artists. > podcasters-share-insider-tips-part-4.html> > > --------------------- > Digital Media > --------------------- > ***Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost > In addition to over 150 full-color images, Julieanne Kost's new book, > "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" > includes details on such topics as how to make great-looking images of > clouds, mountains, farmland, and water, while photographing through > airplane windows. This excerpt from Kost's book explains how to do just > that. Kost details some of the techniques she used to transform images > captured from the skies above into the final images that appear in the > book. > kost.html> > > > ***O'Reilly Photography Learning Center > The O'Reilly Photography Learning Center is an evolving resource of > tips, tricks, and techniques for photographers, both professional and > amateur alike. Each month, we highlight a featured author, provide tips > and techniques, and offer special discounts. Right now, check out Deke > McClelland's tried and true teaching method for learning Photoshop CS2. > > > > ***Speak Your Mind on Digital Media > Fill out a short survey (less than 10 minutes) and help us bring you > the > most accessible, best-written, cost-effective, and useful digital media > resources on Earth. And don't forget to give us your email address at > the end of the survey for a chance to win several great prizes! > > > --------------------- > MAKE > --------------------- > ***Calling All Makers! > > On April 22nd and 23rd at the San Mateo Fairgrounds, MAKE magazine, the > first magazine devoted entirely to DIY technology projects, is hosting > Maker Faire. This event is the first ever public gathering of tech DIY > enthusiasts, educators, tinkerers, hobbyists, science clubs, students, > authors, and exhibitors. Maker Faire will include 6 exposition & > workshop pavilions, a 5-acre outdoor midway, over 100 exhibiting > Makers, > hands-on workshops, demonstrations, DIY competitions, and the latest in > tools, kits and DIY resources. The Maker Faire will also be featuring > The Ultimate Garage (automative meets tech DIY), Robotics, Digital > Entertainment/Gaming, Green Tech & Electronics Recycling, Ultimate > Workshop, Weird Science, and the MAKE: Remix video film festival. > More info: > > > The Call for Proposals is now open. If you have an interesting project > that you are bursting to share with your fellow Makers, here's your > chance! You will have the opportunity to explain how the project works > and to demonstrate it to an inquisitive and appreciative audience. > Plus, > you will have the opportunity to roam the Faire and spend some downtime > with fellow Makers. Each Maker will be assigned to a half-day time slot > on Saturday or Sunday. > > Your proposal should include a short description of your project and a > brief profile describing yourself. This information will appear in the > Maker Faire program and on makezine.com. Also, please state any special > requirements (power, connectivity, ventilation, etc.) you may have. > Submit a proposal today: > > > > Important Dates: > > Maker Proposal Due: Midnight (PST) Feb. 27, 2006 > Speaker Notification: March 15, 2006 > Workshop and Presentations Files Due: April 10, 2006 > Faire: April 22-23, 2006 > > > ***Meet Your Fellow Makers > Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings: > > > > ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: > > > > Until next time-- > > Marsee Henon > > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > ================================================================ > --Apple-Mail-40--547579157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII A lot of info in this, a lot of it interesting Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: February 24, 2006 2:58:30 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, February 24 ================================================================ O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders February 24, 2006 ================================================================ -Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design group? -RSS Feed Now Available on ug.oreilly.com -Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? -Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book -Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review Books are Available Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. Allow at least four weeks for shipping. ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: < ***Discount Information Don't forget to remind your members about the 30% discount on O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG. ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in touch with our sales department. ---------------------------------------------------------------- General News or Inquiries ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Belong to or Know About a Photography, Video, or Design Group? We are looking for creative groups or associations to join our program. Feel free to pass my name along or send me an email. ***RSS Feed now available on the ug.oreilly.com To sign up, go to: < For more information on RSS or Atom Feeds at O'Reilly, go to: < ***Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? We can include it in the news section of our user group page and RSS Feed. Send me a short description and a URL. ***Put Up an O'Reilly ETech Banner, Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. ETech Banners: < ***Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on their web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book of your choice. MySQL Users Conference: < ***Promotional Material Available: The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know the item and the amount you'd like): -Photoshop World Expo Passes, MIami, FL--March 23 (print or PDF available) -MAKE Magazine Volume 5 (limit one copy per group) -30% UG Discount bookmarks -ETech Conference brochures < -MySQL Conference brochures < -Where 2.0 Conference brochures < ================================================================ O'Reilly News for User Group Members February 24, 2006 ================================================================ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-On -Analyzing Business Data with Excel -Building Extreme PCs -Degunking Your Home -DJ Handbook, Second Edition -DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish -Fixing Access Annoyances -Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances -Flickr Hacks -How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004 -Learning C# 2005, Second Edition -Logic Pro Tips and Tricks -Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition -The Mac Tiger Server Black Book -MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05 -Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook -Programming SQL Server 2005 -Repairing and Upgrading Your PC -Security Log Management -VB 2005 Black Book -Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition -Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition -Web Site Cookbook -Wicked Cool Perl Scripts ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24 -O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 -O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27 -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar, Orlando, FL--March 1 -Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson, Pacifica, CA--March 9-12 -O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14 -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006, San Diego, CA--March 15 -RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson, Pacifica, CA--March 18 -Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage, Corte Madera, CA--March 18 -Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22 -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, San Francisco, CA--March 21 -Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Where 2.0 Registration is Open -MySQL Registration is Open -ETech Registration is Open ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots -Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment -Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology -Latest Titles available on O'Reilly Rough Cuts -Introducing Lua -Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster -Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble -What's New in iWork '06? -Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV -Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2 -Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3 -A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned -O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course -Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First -Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS -Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each Other's Toys -Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting Differently -Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear and How to Avoid and Fix Errors -Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost -O'Reilly Photography Learning Center -Speak Your Mind on Digital Media -Calling All Makers! -Meet Your Fellow Makers ================================================ Book News ================================================ Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: < Don't forget, you can receive 30% off any O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress book you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. < ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer applies to US delivery addresses in the fifty states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: < ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Adobe InDesign CS2 One-on-One Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100973 This unique, hands-on book comes with two hours of video instruction (hosted by Deke McClelland himself) on DVD to get you working with InDesign right away, building relevant, real-world projects while mastering fundamental and advanced concepts, theory, best practices, and techniques for making the most of InDesign--to make the most of your page designs. < ***Analyzing Business Data with Excel Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100736 Learn how to apply Excel's advanced data analysis features to solve real-world business problems. This hands-on reference targets specific business situations, then demonstrates how to create spreadsheets for these problem areas. Topics include statistics, pivot tables, workload forecasting, modeling, queuing, data importing, and more. Perfect for professional Excel users working in an office environment. < ***Building Extreme PCs The Complete Guide to Modding and Custom PCs Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101368 "Building Extreme PCs" is the ultimate guide to the world of PC modification and customization. Both a showcase and a DIY handbook, it goes in-depth into system building, overclocking, cooling, and modification, reveals the secrets of optimization and benchmarking, then moves on to cover some of the most exciting and inspirational custom built systems around. From silent systems to multi-processor monsters, from gaming powerhouses to neon-lit speed machines, this book has it all, complete with guidance from the people who made them. < ***Degunking Your Home Publisher: Paraglyph Press January 2006 ISBN: 1933097116 Do you find yourself in one or more of these situations--you're constantly losing your car keys, the "junk" room has threatened to take over your house, or you can't remember the last time you could quickly find something in the garage? Then you need to get organized quickly and degunk! Author Joli Ballew will show you how simple it is to declutter, organize, make your home really work for you, and keep it looking great with her easy and time-saving 12-step program. Even if you have a busy and hectic life, you can keep your home organized and clean. < ***DJ Handbook, Second Edition Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775996 Written by a working DJ who's been there and done that, "The DJ Handbook" is an essential read for every DJ. You'll find advice on choosing equipment (microphones, decks, cartridges, headphones, speakers, and the rest), as well as setting it all up and getting the best sound out of it--whatever the venue. Plus hands-on advice on transport, setting up your sound system at the gig, dealing with punters, looking after safety, and troubleshooting your equipment. < ***DV Filmmaking: From Start to Finish Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008481 Written in an engaging, accessible style, "DV Filmmaking" provides a solid foundation of tremendous value to a beginner, while addressing the fine points of filmmaking with a level of sophistication, detail, and insight that even the most worldly director or educator can appreciate. The author draws upon his years of experience teaching at the college and graduate level, his extensive professional background as a media producer, and his unmistakable love of cinema to create a text that's not only easy to learn from, but also fun to read. < ***Fixing Access Annoyances Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600852X Access is one of the easier and more flexible database management solutions for organizing data. You could grab other books for help, but do they solve problems from page one? Meet a book of a different stripe where newcomers start off right and learn valuable methods for building databases while seasoned pros gain efficiency. "Fixing Access Annoyances" saves time and bouts of hair pulling. < ***Fixing PowerPoint Annoyances Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100043 Microsoft PowerPoint is the most popular presentation software on the planet. Since an estimated 30 million PowerPoint presentations are made every day, no matter how frustrating it gets, you're not about to chuck the program in the recycle bin. If you're vexed and perplexed by PowerPoint, this new guide presents a variety of all-too-familiar, real-world annoyances and smart solutions for every one of them. < ***Flickr Hacks ISBN: 0596102453 "Flickr Hacks" expands the fun and the utility of Flickr, Yahoo!'s popular digital photo-sharing service, by customizing this cutting-edge technology to store, sort, and share photos. The book adopts the game-like appeal of the Flickr site, in individual projects ranging from easy to advanced. Quick hacks show you how to post photos directly to blogs and upload photos from a cellphone. Advanced hacks teach you to use the Flickr API, make photo puzzles and collages, and geocode photos to plot on a map. < ***How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004 ISBN: 1597490571 If deploying and managing ISA Server 2004 is just one of a hundred responsibilities you have as a System Administrator, "How to Cheat at Configuring ISA Server 2004" is the perfect book for you. Written by Microsoft MVP Dr. Tom Shinder, this is a concise, accurate, enterprise tested method for the successful deployment of an ISA Server. < ***Learning C# 2005, Second Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102097 Completely revised to cover C# 2.0 and Visual Basic 2005, this introductory guide offers a thorough introduction to Microsoft's premier .NET language. Discover how to develop various kinds of web services and applications--including those that work with databases. More than 200 questions and programming exercises make mastering the essentials of the C# language easy and fun. < ***Logic Pro Tips and Tricks Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775333 The tips and tricks in this book are laid out in an easy to use format, and will allow you to get the best from the program when recording, editing, mixing, and mastering. There are sections on setting up, optimizing, and organizing your workflow. You'll discover easy ways to perform many complex tasks, and there's a plethora of other tips and pointers that reveal many of Logic's 'hidden' functions. < ***Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition Publisher: Paraglyph Press ISBN: 193309706X "Looking Good in Print" is celebrating fifteen years in print with the newest edition "Looking Good in Print, Sixth Edition." This book has grown over the years to become the "Bible" for desktop publishers and it is widely used as the leading text for courses on desktop publishing. This new edition is updated and expanded to reflect the growing needs of desktop publishers who need to be proficient at creating documents for both print and electronic publication and distribution. < ***The Mac Tiger Server Little Black Book Publisher: Paraglyph Press ISBN: 1933097140 This unique black book guides you through all the aspects of the new Mac Tiger Server including understanding the Apple network, managing network access, and network protocols such as TCP/IP AppleTalk, and the OSI model. It's jam-packed with hundreds of "how-to" tips to ensure that servers are set up correctly and they operate as efficiently as possible. < ***MAKE: Technology on Your Time Volume 05 ISBN: 0596523688 Every issue of MAKE is packed with projects to help you make the most of all the technology in your life. Everything from home entertainment systems, to laptops, to a host of PDAs is fair game. If there's a way to hack it, tweak it, bend it, or remix it, you will find out about it here. < ***Mind Performance Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0-596-10153-8 "Mind Performance Hacks" provides real-life tips and tools for overclocking your brain and becoming a better thinker. In the increasingly frenetic pace of today's information economy, managing your life requires hacking your brain. With this book, you'll cut through the clutter and tune up your brain intentionally, safely, and productively. < ***Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100620 "Photoshop Fine Art Effects Cookbook" tells you all you need to know to turn your digital photographs into images that mimic the styles of great visual artists. From advice on how to choose appropriate subject matter to 62 step-by-step recipes that show you how to create an "original" van Gogh, Vermeer, Edward Weston, or Andy Warhol (among others), this book is an authentic guide to simulating the work of great artists-and a whole lot of fun. < ***Programming SQL Server 2005 Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596004796 Ideal for IT professionals of all stripes, this authoritative guide introduces all facets of SQL Server 2005, Microsoft's next-generation data management and analysis solution. The book explains all of its new features, and shows you how they can help conquer a variety of data challenges. Learn how to reduce the complexity of building, deploying and managing database applications, and much more. < ***Repairing and Upgrading Your PC Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059600866X Repairing and Upgrading Your PC delivers start-to-finish instructions, simple enough for even the most inexperienced PC owner, for troubleshooting, repairing, and upgrading your computer. Written by hardware experts Robert Bruce Thompson and Barbara Fritchman Thompson, this book covers it all: how to troubleshoot a troublesome PC, how to identify which components make sense for an upgrade, and how to tear it all down and put it back together. < ***Security Log Management Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490423 As a system administrator or security professional, you probably find yourself inundated each day with a deluge of log files from seemingly countless devices, servers, and applications on your network ranging from Windows Server to Snort to your PIX firewall and everything in between. This unique book will show you how to use a combination of open source software such as Tcpdstats, and Snort perfmonitor to create succinct, meaningful reports that give you the big picture of your network's overall health and well being. So, if you need to analyze and prioritize everything from how much of your bandwidth is devoted to browsing ESPN.com, to the most targeted machines in your IDS logs, this is the book for you. < ***VB 2005 Little Black Book Publisher: Paraglyph Press ISBN: 1933097086 "Visual Basic 2005 Programming Little Black Book" is one of the first comprehensive books that cover the new version of Visual Basic and the development features of Microsoft's .NET platform in depth. The book explains the major changes to VB and provides numerous tips and practical solutions for developing applications. < ***Visual Basic 2005 in a Nutshell, Third Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059610152X Newly updated, this classic detailed reference to the Visual Basic programming language had been reorganized to cover all the ins and outs of Visual Basic 2005, including new features like Generics, My Namespace, and operators. An alphabetical reference to Visual Basic 2005 statements, procedures, functions, and objects makes sure you follow along. Ideal for developers, programmers, and anyone learning VB as a first language. < ***Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596009879 Our popular reference, "Web Design in a Nutshell," has been completely rewritten and expanded to reflect the state of the art in web standards. In addition to being an authoritative reference for (X)HTML and Cascading Style Sheets, this book also provides an overview of the unique requirements of designing for the Web and gets to the nitty-gritty of JavaScript and DOM Scripting, web graphics optimization, and multimedia production. It is an indispensable tool for web designers and developers of all levels. < ***Web Site Cookbook Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101090 This handy guide provides a wide range of solutions to real-life problems that come up regularly when creating and growing a web site. With recipes that teach both routine and advanced setup tasks, the book includes clear and professional instruction on a host of topics. Learn page design, visitor tracking, site promotion, and much more. < ***Wicked Cool Perl Scripts Publisher: No Starch Press ISBN: 1593270623 Most Perl programmers have been frustrated at one time or another because the system just wouldn't do what they wanted it to do. There was that one simple and obvious utility that was missing that would make life so much easier. "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is about writing those utilities quickly and easily. A collection of handy utilities that solves difficult problems, "Wicked Cool Perl Scripts" is a great resource for the savvy Perl programmer. < ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four. Subscribe at: < ================================================ Upcoming Events ================================================ ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Professional Aerial Photographers Association International, Orlando, FL--February 24 Author Julieanne Kost presents "Photoshop CS2--Tips and Tricks." < ***O'Reilly at the PMA International Convention and Tradeshow, Orlando, FL--February 26-March 1 Stop by our booth (#2117) to check out our digital media titles. < ***O'Reilly at FOSDEM, Brussels, Belgium--February 26-27 The sixth Free and Open Source Software Developers' European Meeting is organized by volunteers to promote the widespread use of free and open source software. < ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP Pixel Cash Seminar, Orlando, FL--March 1 Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. < ***Fine-Art Digital Printing Workshop: Hands-On with Stephen Johnson, Pacifica, CA--March 9-12 Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography") presents a four day workshop focusing exclusively on fine-art digital printing, primarily using Epson inkjet printers. Concentration will be on inkjet printing with color pigments and black/gray ink combinations on coated and rag papers. Learn from the digital pioneer how he obtains his impressive results during four days of lectures, printing, and feedback in the studio. < ***O'Reilly at SXSW Interactive, Austin,TX--March 10-14 Authors Kathy Sierra ("Head First Java, Second Edition"), Peter Morville ("Ambient Findability"), and Jennifer Niederst Robbins ("Web Design in a Nutshell, Third Edition") will be there. Make sure you stop by our booth to check out our latest books. < ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Pro Photo Expo 2006, San Diego, CA--March 15 Author Julieanne Kost presents "Adobe Photoshop CS2--Welcome Aboard." < ***RAW Image Processing in Adobe Photoshop with Stephen Johnson, Pacifica, CA--March 18 Photographer and author Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography") presents this one-day seminar explores this process with Adobe's new Photoshop CS2 Camera Raw processor. < ***Mikkel Aaland ("Photoshop CS2 RAW") at Book Passage, Corte Madera, CA--March 18 Photographer and author Mikkel Aaland disscusses and signs his newest book. < ***Tim O'Reilly at MIX06, Las Vegas, NV--March 20-22 Microsoft's new MIX conference is for developers, designers, and business professionals who create consumer-oriented web sites. Hear Bill Gates, Tim O'Reilly, and other industry leaders talk about the new and unique experiences that can be delivered over the Web. < ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, San Francisco, CA--March 21 Author Peter Krogh gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. < ***Dru Lavigne at UKUUG Spring Conference, Durham, UK--March 21-23 Author Dru Lavigne (BSD Hacks) delivers the keynote as well as a talk on BSD Certification at this year's conference. < ================================================ Conference News ================================================ ***Where 2.0 Early Registration is Open The Where 2.0 Conference brings together the people, projects, and issues leading the charge into the location-based technology frontier. Join the developers, innovators, and business people behind the new era of geospatial technology as they come together--because everything happens somewhere, and it's all happening here. Where 2.0 Conference, June 13-14, 2006 Fairmont Hotel, San Jose, CA < User Group members who register before April 24, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "whr06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ***MySQL Users Conference Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It is the only event where you will be able to join the core MySQL development team and over 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one roof. MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA < User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ***Register for O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference We're five years into the O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference and the stuff of which it is made shows no sign of abating: bandwidth continues to broaden, storage grows ever larger and cheaper, and content keeps spraying from the fire hose. How do we visualize all of this digital data, filter it, remix it, and access it in meaningful ways? The coming technical challenge is not about generating digital content-we have more than enough already. It's time to do something with that data. It's time to build The Attention Economy. O'Reilly Emerging Technology Conference, March 6-9, 2006 Manchester Grand Hyatt, San Diego, CA < Use code "et06dsug" when you register, and receive 20% off the registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ================================================ News From O'Reilly & Beyond ================================================ --------------------- General News --------------------- ***A Secret Tip for Taking Great Digital Shots Want to impress friends and family with professional-looking photos? Professional photographer and best-selling author Derrick Story provides his favorite tip--using a flash setting--for taking great shots for better skin tone, reduced texture in the face, and adding a twinkle to the eyes. < ***Quicken 2006 Missing Manual: Setting Up Your Quicken Environment After you install Quicken, you're only a few steps away from experiencing the joys of electronic personal finance. Chapter 1 of "Quicken 2006 for Starters: The Missing Manual" gets you out of the gate running, guiding you through launch, set up and the intricate preferences. If you like this chapter, read the whole book (and up to nine others) on Safari with a free trial subscription. < ***Early Access to Cutting-Edge Technology O'Reilly's Safari Books Online has just announced a new service called Rough Cuts that gives you early access to content on cutting-edge technologies months before it's published. Rough Cuts allows you to purchase work-in-progress manuscripts of selected titles. For more information, go to: < Latest Titles Available: Perl Hacks < Ubuntu Hacks < Ajax Design Patterns < Java and XML, 3rd Edition < --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Introducing Lua Scripting is highly important to extensible applications. Not only is it easier to write logic in higher-level languages, but it's often safer. It can be effective, too--consider that World of Warcraft and other games embed the Lua language and use it for scripts, AI, configuration, and even user interface management. Why Lua? Keith Fieldhouse introduces the language and explains why it's so appropriate. < ***Building a High-Availability MySQL Cluster Serious business services really can't go down, whether due to hardware or software failures. If your necessary services rely on MySQL, clustering and high availability can prevent failures. Kris Buytaert shows how his group recently used MySQL Cluster and Heartbeat to provide redundant, failure-proof replication and availability of their data. < ***Free Mesh Networking with Metrix Pebble Metrix Pebble is a variant of the popular Pebble Linux distribution that adds a web-based configuration GUI, support for OLSRD and EVDO, automatic generation of network flows, wireless users, and radio link status graphs using rrdtool, and fits in just under 64MB of flash memory. Rob Flickenger describes how to use Metrix Pebble to set up a wireless mesh network. < --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***What's New in iWork '06? iWork's tandem offering of Pages and Keynote provides a useful collection of tools for presentations, word processing, and layout. But how much has changed since last year's debut? Giles Turnbull walks you through Pages 2 and Keynote 3 to help decide if this upgrade is for you. < ***Digitizing VHS Tapes with EyeTV By digitizing your old VHS tapes, you can move them from taking up precious shelf space to more readily available disk space. In this article, Joe McMahon shows you a hack that lets you archive full-quality digital recordings from EyeTV to offline media, but still play them back easily in EyeTV. < --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Inside Look: Internet Explorer 7, Beta 2 The long-awaited Beta 2 of IE 7 is finally here. What's new, good, and better? Wei-Meng Lee gives you a guided tour and an inside look. < ***Creating an Application from Scratch, Part 3 Jesse Liberty is creating an application from scratch in ASP.NET 2.0 while you watch over his shoulder. In part 3, he builds the engine and implements it. < --------------------- Web --------------------- ***A Penny Saved is a Penny Earned Think ecommerce web sites on the cheap are impossible? Find out how to get a site off the ground for less than $2000. < ***O'Reilly Learning Lab Offers Updated HTML/CSS Course Keep on the cutting edge of web programming with our newly updated HTML/CSS course, part of our hugely popular Web Programming Certificate series through the University of Illinois Office of Continuing Education. Keep your free O'Reilly books for reference, and your Learning Lab account as an online portfolio. Pre-enroll in all six Web Programming courses and get HTML/CSS free. Offer good through February 28th. < ***Information Architecture: Why the Last Page Comes First When designing a site, are you still creating the frontpage first? Find out why this is a mistake, and a better way to approach it. < --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Asynchronous Messaging Made Easy With Spring JMS Java Messaging Service (JMS) requires a lot of work to set up sessions and manage messages, work that can distract you from your application-specific logic. The Spring framework's SpringJMS offers a simpler solution that keeps the JMS administration out of your face. Srini Penchikala takes a look. < ***Playing Together Nicely: Getting REST and SOAP to Share Each Other's Toys Convincing your colleagues and clients to consider a RESTful approach to SOAP is difficult when the accepted standard is SOAP-style services. In this article, Jason R. Briggs introduces a SOAP interface that can be used to deliver SOAP messages from REST resources. < --------------------- Podcasts --------------------- ***Attention Streams, Taking Pictures, Java in Brazil, and Presenting Differently Rael Dornfest and Tim O'Reilly continue their preview of next month's Emerging Technology conference, Bruno Souza talks to us about Java in Brazil, conference photographer James Duncan Davidson discusses his art, and "Why the Lucky Stiff" shows us that conference presentations can be much more creative than they tend to be. (DTF 02-17-2006: 28 minutes 37 seconds) < ***Pioneer Podcasters Share Insider Tips, Part 4: Top-of-the-Line Gear and How to Avoid and Fix Errors Listen in as Jack Herrington, the author of "Podcasting Hacks," chats with pioneer podcasters Doug Kaye and James Polanco. Doug is the founder of IT Conversations, the influential site that features podcasts covering important events, programs, and interviews with industry luminaries. James is the founder of "Fake Science," the popular podcast radio show covering all things digital music--news, reviews, and profiles of digital artists. < --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Walking the Talk with Julieanne Kost In addition to over 150 full-color images, Julieanne Kost's new book, "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" includes details on such topics as how to make great-looking images of clouds, mountains, farmland, and water, while photographing through airplane windows. This excerpt from Kost's book explains how to do just that. Kost details some of the techniques she used to transform images captured from the skies above into the final images that appear in the book. < ***O'Reilly Photography Learning Center The O'Reilly Photography Learning Center is an evolving resource of tips, tricks, and techniques for photographers, both professional and amateur alike. Each month, we highlight a featured author, provide tips and techniques, and offer special discounts. Right now, check out Deke McClelland's tried and true teaching method for learning Photoshop CS2. < ***Speak Your Mind on Digital Media Fill out a short survey (less than 10 minutes) and help us bring you the most accessible, best-written, cost-effective, and useful digital media resources on Earth. And don't forget to give us your email address at the end of the survey for a chance to win several great prizes! < --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***Calling All Makers! On April 22nd and 23rd at the San Mateo Fairgrounds, MAKE magazine, the first magazine devoted entirely to DIY technology projects, is hosting Maker Faire. This event is the first ever public gathering of tech DIY enthusiasts, educators, tinkerers, hobbyists, science clubs, students, authors, and exhibitors. Maker Faire will include 6 exposition & workshop pavilions, a 5-acre outdoor midway, over 100 exhibiting Makers, hands-on workshops, demonstrations, DIY competitions, and the latest in tools, kits and DIY resources. The Maker Faire will also be featuring The Ultimate Garage (automative meets tech DIY), Robotics, Digital Entertainment/Gaming, Green Tech & Electronics Recycling, Ultimate Workshop, Weird Science, and the MAKE: Remix video film festival. More info: < The Call for Proposals is now open. If you have an interesting project that you are bursting to share with your fellow Makers, here's your chance! You will have the opportunity to explain how the project works and to demonstrate it to an inquisitive and appreciative audience. Plus, you will have the opportunity to roam the Faire and spend some downtime with fellow Makers. Each Maker will be assigned to a half-day time slot on Saturday or Sunday. Your proposal should include a short description of your project and a brief profile describing yourself. This information will appear in the Maker Faire program and on makezine.com. Also, please state any special requirements (power, connectivity, ventilation, etc.) you may have. Submit a proposal today: < Important Dates: Maker Proposal Due: Midnight (PST) Feb. 27, 2006 Speaker Notification: March 15, 2006 Workshop and Presentations Files Due: April 10, 2006 Faire: April 22-23, 2006 ***Meet Your Fellow Makers Find and post events, exhibits, and more with Maker events listings: < ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: < Until next time-- Marsee Henon ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ --Apple-Mail-40--547579157-- From einfeldt@gmail.com Sun Feb 26 19:24:55 2006 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.166.176]:2642) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FDZ01-0001b7-IU for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:24:54 -0800 Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id z59so681916pyg for ; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:24:30 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=TY8mVROfHE0ZiVd/mkpoaAQRT5Z85JRPgA6gioOVBSffrwRdwwnR2zf65K8iMUMv7+4Kx9TchQkJD4E3NWr/PwxcAgrE6Uf4n1KFuejGA48Mm6cDGLlsHn3EnpLqGu25G2ObE8KaAKmBGLP4zd65xPE/hLN6z0ZNwJxnxkoYtaU= Received: by 10.35.78.13 with SMTP id f13mr1334102pyl; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.14 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Feb 2006 19:24:30 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4b5781040602261924s630a946ct52723f36c9921018@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:24:30 -0500 From: "Christian Einfeldt" To: "jim stockford" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060223231640.19158.qmail@web53613.mail.yahoo.com> <4b5781040602241420h9a676e1k2a28b50d7b729c2d@mail.gmail.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of einfeldt@gmail.com designates 64.233.166.176 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.166.176 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: einfeldt@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: Look what I found... Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_23150_21726627.1141010670135" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:03:04 -0800 Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , Adam Doxtater X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 03:24:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4514 Lines: 97 ------=_Part_23150_21726627.1141010670135 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline hi jim On 2/25/06, jim stockford wrote: > > > Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping > point film documenting the open source > phenomenon. Their web site has some > great info and links: > http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/ Thanks for this plug! Heh. See ya. We are making progress on the film. Let's talk next weekend, if you are interested. On Feb 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote: > > > Hi Vince, > > > > On 2/23/06, vincent polite wrote: > > Searching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina > > Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..) > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share.. > > > > > > Thanks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open > > source software. In the future, most software will be downloaded from > > sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens. ibiblio is > > one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christensen > > calls a disruptive channel. As open source disrupts Microsoft's > > business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop in > > the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsoft > > business hub, IMHO. To me, this change in the industry is one of the > > most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it will > > result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact with > > each other. > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > ------=_Part_23150_21726627.1141010670135 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline hi jim

On 2/25/06, jim stockford <jim@wel= l.com> wrote:

    Christian is honcho-ing the digital tipping
= point film documenting the open source
phenomenon. Their web site has so= me
great info and links:
http://www.digitaltippingpoint.com/

Thanks for this plug!   Heh.  See ya.  We are making progress on the film.  Let's talk next weekend, if you are interested. 

On Feb = 24, 2006, at 2:20 PM, Christian Einfeldt wrote:

> Hi Vince,
&g= t;
> On 2/23/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>  S= earching for something, I found this site at Univ. of North Carolina
>= ; Chapel Hill..(for something I can't go to..)
> http://www.ibiblio.o= rg/pub/linux/ Thought I'd share..
>
>
>  Th= anks for the email, and welcome to the wonderful world of free open
>= source software. In the future, most software will be downloaded from
> sites like that, once the digital tipping point happens. ibiblio i= s
> one example of what Harvard Business professor Clayton Christense= n
> calls a disruptive channel. As open source disrupts Microsoft's
> business model, the drop in Microsoft's income will mirror a drop = in
> the income of some of the channels that are part of the Microsof= t
> business hub, IMHO. To me, this change in the industry is one of = the
> most fascinating aspects of the digital tipping point, because it = will
> result in a widespread alteration of the way that we interact = with
> each other.
> __________________________________________= _____
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

------=_Part_23150_21726627.1141010670135-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Feb 27 11:42:44 2006 Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.58]:31270) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FDoGN-00082j-GO for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:42:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 85678 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Feb 2006 19:35:42 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=YZWYWyDYtyL6JPxkfUq8xq4MK0cxY91wk4iVWaXwDIOEitw9SnxwxW+ztEqgVb7ScrhJwexw3MsP7hDyllmpmP+MOK6W7qAS5/maUkloeLc0pvQwZ8TJG3UZxu8XfbKT71eNW2sZBii2tQ8/sKSjb1aUkOWgAfspyLUw+8ASjv8= ; Message-ID: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.24] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:35:41 PST Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 11:35:41 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" , jim stockford , christian , Doc Searls , "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , Adam Doxtater MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.58 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-628888254-1141068941=:85133" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle - OpenSource alternatives.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:42:44 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1263 Lines: 21 --0-628888254-1141068941=:85133 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thought this was interesting.. "Open-source programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find they work fine, others say they lack some features" by Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer Monday, February 27, 2006 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1.DTL&hw=open+source&sn=001&sc=1000 --0-628888254-1141068941=:85133 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 Thought this was interesting..
"Open-source programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find they work fine, others say they lack some features"

by
Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, February 27, 2006

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1.DTL&hw=open+source&sn=001&sc=1000
--0-628888254-1141068941=:85133-- From einfeldt@gmail.com Mon Feb 27 15:51:25 2006 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.207]:48495) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FDs8v-0001J4-Om for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:51:23 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 37so8209wra for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:50:57 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=b2ErY02oiQbx3KwTRodGzCkguBUb7G4Pnd1poMfh9m1sxO3T0EWuoDYEZXAVRQ39ORWRdUOqZaxIPozhAgRwdxvbhnSVAYuOOp+AfPyiIKiaqc9EvNwzp/6GPG96sWgRszNoQ6ZnTFtayXeUXOPVAjvJ+KfGX9jDkDLxaPvWGZ0= Received: by 10.35.22.17 with SMTP id z17mr397416pyi; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:50:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.14 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:50:57 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4b5781040602271550g6be9ebeeg5c3719e3b35de87d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:50:57 -0800 From: "Christian Einfeldt" To: "vincent polite" In-Reply-To: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060227193542.85676.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of einfeldt@gmail.com designates 64.233.184.207 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.184.207 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: einfeldt@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3841_11065736.1141084257521" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:56:18 -0800 Cc: Adam Doxtater , Graham Lauder , "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , "sf-lug@virgilsoftware.com" , Doc Searls Subject: [sf-lug] Re: From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle - OpenSource alternatives.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 23:51:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3781 Lines: 84 ------=_Part_3841_11065736.1141084257521 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline hi, On 2/27/06, vincent polite wrote: > > Thought this was interesting.. > "Open-source programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find > they work fine, others say they lack some features" > > by > Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer > Monday, February 27, 2006 > > http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1= .DTL&hw=3Dopen+source&sn=3D001&sc=3D1000 > I saw this article. It's great that it has a front page splash box with a picture of Bill Gates in the top right hand corner. The Chron really gave this top billing. That is in itself a digital tipping point. However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral." I am planning to scan the front page of the hard copy, because the Chron's on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page placement given to the hard copy. If anyone wants to receive a copy of the scanned version, please raise your hand! Thanks for this info, Vince. ------=_Part_3841_11065736.1141084257521 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline hi,

On 2/27/06, vincent polite < vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
 Thought this was interesting..
"Open-sour= ce programs offer alternatives to Microsoft Office Some find they work fine= , others say they lack some features"

by
 Carrie Kirby, Chronicle Staff Writer
Monda= y, February 27, 2006

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=3D/c/a/2006/02/27/BUG2IHECTQ1.D= TL&hw=3Dopen+source&sn=3D001&sc=3D1000

I saw this article.  It's great that it has a front page splash box with a picture of Bill Gates in the top right hand corner.  The Chron really gave this top billing.  That is in itself a digital tipping point.

However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral."  I am planning to scan the front page of the hard= copy, because the Chron's on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page placement given to the hard copy.  If anyone wants to receive a copy of the scanned version, please raise your hand!

Thanks for this info, Vince.
------=_Part_3841_11065736.1141084257521-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Feb 27 22:04:58 2006 Received: from web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.117]:43294) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FDxyV-0003lZ-PS for ; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:04:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 12988 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Feb 2006 06:04:35 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=sTWc/CXolbT3tRs7KpcZz8adE6NjSABTOChQkeu13BEL099A+Cq9oJNYP8wO/nzduOOWZQJJaBvTpkPr1Oandkx2EPiQwsydviv7t2KYYRAGPmdyHhfkWI6g6+xp0SkmwkNnfq4Jq/gWlnC+xhFH3EoQdOdXkinqkgR5JmIqY8E= ; Message-ID: <20060228060435.12986.qmail@web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31405.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:04:35 PST Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:04:35 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <4b5781040602271550g6be9ebeeg5c3719e3b35de87d@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.117 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Re: From the front page of the SF "Comical" - Chronicle - OpenSource alternatives.. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1571382608-1141106675=:12623" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 06:04:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2616 Lines: 33 --0-1571382608-1141106675=:12623 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian Einfeldt wrote:However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral." I am planning to scan the front page of the hard copy, because the Chron's on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page placement given to the hard copy. If anyone wants to receive a copy of the scanned version, please raise your hand! The printed story is the same as the online version. The real story, closely related to this, is the OpenDoc format. She could have spoken about that, and perhaps about the smear campaign against Peter Quinn, the Massachusetts State IT Director, for trying to get his state to standardize on OpenDoc. OpenOffice 2 supports OpenDoc, so it would have added a nice angle to the story. - Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --0-1571382608-1141106675=:12623 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Christian Einfeldt <einfeldt@gmail.com> wrote:
However, the story leaves a lot to be desired. With all due respect to Carrie Kirby, she really doesn't know all that much about open source; or she had to really dumb down the article for the purpose of being "neutral."  I am planning to scan the front page of the hard copy, because the Chron's on-line version really doesn't match the prominence of the front-page placement given to the hard copy.  If anyone wants to receive a copy of the scanned version, please raise your hand!
The printed story is the same as the online version.

The real story, closely related to this, is the OpenDoc format. She
could have spoken about that, and perhaps about the smear campaign
against Peter Quinn, the Massachusetts State IT Director, for trying to
get his state to standardize on OpenDoc. OpenOffice 2 supports
OpenDoc, so it would have added a nice angle to the story.

- Adrien



Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --0-1571382608-1141106675=:12623-- From jim@well.com Fri Mar 03 09:57:20 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48599) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FFEWj-0005pg-1N for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:57:19 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23HvAVN029527 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:57:10 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <7D17EFC7-AADF-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:59:41 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] meeting this sunday, 3/5, at javacat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 17:57:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 117 Lines: 7 ...at the Javacat from 11:00 AM till 1:00 PM or so. The Javacat cafe is on Geary at 20th (in SF). See you there. From jim@well.com Fri Mar 03 14:57:37 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:44065) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FFJC0-0007lT-Gk for ; Fri, 03 Mar 2006 14:57:36 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k23Mu6h7006223 for ; Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:56:06 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <3F5B292A-AB09-11DA-8F2F-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 14:58:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1313/Fri Mar 3 08:19:06 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-44--89240484 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Levanta Linux Management Appliance X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 22:57:37 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 20538 Lines: 637 --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-45--89240484 --Apple-Mail-45--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Anybody got an opinion about Winton's offer? I think he'd be disappointedly polite at the javacat; maybe he'd spring for lattes all around. My thought is to put him onto balug or penlug. Begin forwarded message: > From: "Winton Jew" > Date: March 3, 2006 2:41:31 PM PST > To: > Subject: Levanta Linux Management Appliance > > Jim, > > I would like to request the opportunity to speak at one of your=20 > meetings.=A0 I would be glad to sponsor refreshments or something. > > I thought you might be interested in Levanta=92s Intrepid M, The = World=92s=20 > First Linux Management Appliance.=A0 > The Levanta system is a breakthrough in provisioning, deployment, and=20= > change management for Linux environments large and small. Whether you=20= > use blades, rack servers, large SMPs, desktops, virtual machines, or=20= > mainframes, Levanta can dramatically improve the power and flexibility=20= > of Linux. > > Levanta is a leader in Linux management and data virtualization.=20 > Levanta's unique technology marries change control with data=20 > virtualization, delivering dramatically faster and more flexible=20 > control of Linux on commodity hardware, racks, blades, boxes, virtual=20= > machines, and even mainframes. Unlike traditional script-based or=20 > disk-imaging solutions, Levanta can: > --Apple-Mail-45--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Anybody got an opinion about Winton's offer?=20 I think he'd be disappointedly polite at the=20 javacat; maybe he'd spring for lattes all around.=20 My thought is to put him onto balug or penlug.=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Winton Jew" < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 3, 2006 2:41:31 PM PST 0000,0000,0000To: < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Levanta Linux Management Appliance = ArialJim, ArialI would like to request the opportunity to speak at one of your meetings.=A0 I would be glad to sponsor refreshments or something. ArialI thought you might be interested in Levanta=92s Intrepid M, The World=92s First Linux Management Appliance.=A0 = 3333,3333,3333 = Arial3333,3333,3333The Levanta system is a breakthrough in provisioning, deployment, and change management for Linux environments large and small. Whether you use blades, rack servers, large SMPs, desktops, virtual machines, or mainframes, Levanta can dramatically improve the power and flexibility of Linux. = Arial3333,3333,3333Levant= a is a leader in Linux management and data virtualization. Levanta's unique technology marries change control with data virtualization, delivering dramatically faster and more flexible control of Linux on commodity hardware, racks, blades, boxes, virtual machines, and even mainframes. Unlike traditional script-based or disk-imaging solutions, Levanta can: = --Apple-Mail-45--89240484-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-46--89240482 --Apple-Mail-46--89240482 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Provision: Servers or workstations with full Linux stack and > applications in just minutes. Even from bare metal. --Apple-Mail-46--89240482 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Provision:Arial3333,3333,3333 Servers or workstations with full Linux stack and applications in just minutes. Even from bare metal. --Apple-Mail-46--89240482-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-47--89240479 --Apple-Mail-47--89240479 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Deploy: Software and patches simply and quickly to multiple machines > without lengthy installation steps or copying files. --Apple-Mail-47--89240479 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Deploy:Arial3333,3333,3333 Software and patches simply and quickly to multiple machines without lengthy installation steps or copying files. --Apple-Mail-47--89240479-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-48--89240478 --Apple-Mail-48--89240478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Migrate: Move all the software and the entire OS on a machine from one > piece of hardware to another at will. --Apple-Mail-48--89240478 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Migrate:Arial3333,3333,3333 Move all the software and the entire OS on a machine from one piece of hardware to another at will. --Apple-Mail-48--89240478-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-49--89240476 --Apple-Mail-49--89240476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Be On-Demand: Allocate resources spontaneously using commodity > components, with no vendor lock-in. --Apple-Mail-49--89240476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Be On-Demand:Arial3333,3333,3333 Allocate resources spontaneously using commodity components, with no vendor lock-in. --Apple-Mail-49--89240476-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-50--89240474 --Apple-Mail-50--89240474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Track Everything: Track all changes made to a machine by any means, > supporting your testing, security, or compliance needs. --Apple-Mail-50--89240474 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Track Everything:Arial3333,3333,3333 Track all changes made to a machine by any means, supporting your testing, security, or compliance needs. --Apple-Mail-50--89240474-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-51--89240473 --Apple-Mail-51--89240473 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Capture State: Take a checkpoint to archive the state of machine, > allowing you to 'save' a system before making changes to it. --Apple-Mail-51--89240473 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Capture State:Arial3333,3333,3333 Take a checkpoint to archive the state of machine, allowing you to 'save' a system before making changes to it. --Apple-Mail-51--89240473-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-52--89240472 --Apple-Mail-52--89240472 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Instant Rollback: Undo changes made to a machine in minutes, even in > the distant past. --Apple-Mail-52--89240472 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Instant Rollback:Arial3333,3333,3333 Undo changes made to a machine in minutes, even in the distant past. --Apple-Mail-52--89240472-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-53--89240469 --Apple-Mail-53--89240469 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Recover Disasters: Bring dead machines quickly back to life, even if > they're unbootable. --Apple-Mail-53--89240469 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Recover Disasters:Arial3333,3333,3333 Bring dead machines quickly back to life, even if they're unbootable. --Apple-Mail-53--89240469-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-54--89240467 --Apple-Mail-54--89240467 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Out of the Box: Includes pre-defined templates and open source > software for servers, workstations, and software stacks. Or create > your own. --Apple-Mail-54--89240467 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Out of the BoxArial3333,3333,3333: Includes pre-defined templates and open source software for servers, workstations, and software stacks. Or create your own. --Apple-Mail-54--89240467-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-55--89240466 --Apple-Mail-55--89240466 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Leverage Shared Storage: Includes shared storage functionality, giving > you powerful storage management that is easy to deploy and integrate. --Apple-Mail-55--89240466 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Leverage Shared Storage:Arial3333,3333,3333 Includes shared storage functionality, giving you powerful storage management that is easy to deploy and integrate. --Apple-Mail-55--89240466-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/tiff; x-unix-mode=0666; name="image.tiff" Content-Disposition: inline; filename=image.tiff TU0AKgAAAEqAACBQOCQWDQeEQmFQuGQ2HQ+IQp4P8oP8gP8wP+Jw4YP8AR6QR2HyCPyWNR6GSSVQ 44St/y2INB/oB/sCUQyAgAAADgEAAAMAAAABAAwAAAEBAAMAAAABAAwAAAECAAMAAAACAAgACAED AAMAAAABAAUAAAEGAAMAAAABAAEAAAERAAQAAAABAAAACAEVAAMAAAABAAIAAAEWAAQAAAABAAAF VQEXAAQAAAABAAAAQQEaAAUAAAABAAAA+AEbAAUAAAABAAABAAEcAAMAAAABAAEAAAEoAAMAAAAB AAIAAAFSAAMAAAABAAEAAAAAAAAACvyAAAAnEAAK/IAAACcQ --Apple-Mail-44--89240484 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-56--89240464 --Apple-Mail-56--89240464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Support Anything: Works with commodity hardware, blades, racks, > desktops and virtual machines. > > Levanta's customers include industry leaders in financial services, > entertainment, government, retail and telecommunications. Levanta has > partnerships with IBM, HP, Novell, and Red Hat. > > For more information please go to www.levanta.com. > > Please let me know if this is of interest to you. > Thank you. > Regards, > > Winton Jew > Western Regional Sales Manager > Levanta > 650-403-7231 office > 408-772-9525 cell > wjew@levanta.com > www.levanta.com --Apple-Mail-56--89240464 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Arial3333,3333,3333Support Anything:Arial3333,3333,3333 Works with commodity hardware, blades, racks, desktops and virtual machines. Arial3333,3333,3333Levanta's customers include industry leaders in financial services, entertainment, government, retail and telecommunications. Levanta has partnerships with IBM, HP, Novell, and Red Hat. Times New RomanFor more information please go to www.levanta.com. ArialPlease let me know if this is of interest to you. ArialThank you. ArialRegards, Times New RomanWinton Jew Times New RomanWestern Regional Sales Manager Times New RomanLevanta Times New Roman650-403-7231 office Times New Roman408-772-9525 cell Times New Roman0000,0000,FFFFwjew@levanta.com Times New Roman0000,0000,FFFFwww.levanta.com --Apple-Mail-56--89240464-- --Apple-Mail-44--89240484-- From jim@well.com Sat Mar 04 09:07:55 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:38756) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FFaED-0006Ji-68 for ; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 09:07:54 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.100] (adsl-71-141-12-57.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.12.57]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k24H7XVJ021299 for ; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:07:33 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 09:10:05 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-58--23751951 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: A question about squid problem X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 17:07:55 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3709 Lines: 145 --Apple-Mail-58--23751951 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed this human being deserves help, seems to me. The problem is network access through a firewall after replacing the Windows firewall host with a Linux host. Can anyone help? the tr domain is turkey. Begin forwarded message: > From: =C4=B0nan=C3=A7 =C3=87=C4=B1=C4=9F=C5=9Far = > Date: March 4, 2006 1:35:49 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: A question about squid problem > > Hi , > I found your e-mail address while I was searching for help through=20 > the net. I will try to explain about my network structure and my=20 > problem. > We were using a Windows server as a firewall and gateway and a Red=20 > Hat as a proxy server. When we had a problem with the firewall we=20 > replaced it with a Fedora Core ( squid and shorewall are configured )=20= > as a proxy,getaway and firewall.Then remove the red hot server which=20= > was serving as a (squid) proxy . But my problems continued. > > Below is my squid configuration on Fedora Core ( which is also the=20 > gateway and firewall ): > > acl mydomain src 192.168.10.0/24 > http_access allow mydomain > > http_access deny !mydomain > > But when i try to open www.mydomain.com and any other pages under=20 > www.mydomain.com ( www.mydomain.com/references.asp) i get an error (=20= > 111) saying that connection refused. when i clear the proxy options=20 > the pages are displayed. > > I had the same config when i was using Red hat squid but it was=20 > neither a gateway nor a firewall.It was only running as a proxy. Why i=20= > get a refused connection error?? > > I would be glad if you can support me with this... --Apple-Mail-58--23751951 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=UTF-8 this human being deserves help, seems to me.=20 The problem is network access through a firewall=20 after replacing the Windows firewall host with a=20 Linux host.=20 Can anyone help?=20 the tr domain is turkey.=20 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: =C4=B0nan=C3=A7 =C3=87=C4=B1=C4=9F=C5=9Far = < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 4, 2006 1:35:49 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: A question about squid problem Hi , I found your e-mail address while I was searching for help through the net. I will try to explain about my network structure and my problem.=20 We were using a Windows server as a firewall and gateway and a Red Hat as a proxy server. When we had a problem with the firewall we replaced it with a Fedora Core ( squid and shorewall are configured ) as a proxy,getaway and firewall.Then remove the red hot server which was serving as a (squid) proxy . But my problems continued. Below is my squid configuration on Fedora Core ( which is also the gateway and firewall ): acl mydomain src 192.168.10.0/24 http_access allow mydomain http_access deny !mydomain But when i try to open www.mydomain.com and any other pages under www.mydomain.com ( www.mydomain.com/references.asp) i get an error ( 111) saying that connection refused. when i clear the proxy options the pages are displayed. I had the same config when i was using Red hat squid but it was neither a gateway nor a firewall.It was only running as a proxy. Why i get a refused connection error?? I would be glad if you can support me with this... = --Apple-Mail-58--23751951-- From mark@kermit.org Sat Mar 04 11:38:04 2006 Received: from lnx.kermit.org ([213.133.109.17]:49121) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FFcZd-0007CB-8J for ; Sat, 04 Mar 2006 11:38:03 -0800 Received: from [192.168.15.101] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lnx.kermit.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B6032845; Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:37:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Message-Id: <612D9007-E45D-44BA-BB59-5824E80205B6@kermit.org> From: mark@kermit.org Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 11:37:03 -0800 To: Jim Stockford , icigsar@tusside.gov.tr X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of mark@kermit.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 213.133.109.17 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: mark@kermit.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A question about squid problem X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2006 19:38:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2444 Lines: 76 We need to see the firewall / NAT configuration. Most likely the packages from the 192.168.10.0/24 network get NATed =20 before they even hit squid, therefore Squid will see as source =20 address not the local network, but the public IP address of the =20 firewall. You will need to make sure that you do NOT translate (NAT) any =20 connections from your local network to the public Internet Port 80. =20 Since Squid is acting as a proxy, it will fetch the page form the =20 public Internet and deliver it to your local client. I hope that helps, Mark On Mar 4, 2006, at 09:10 , jim stockford wrote: > > this human being deserves help, seems to me. > > The problem is network access through a firewall > after replacing the Windows firewall host with a > Linux host. > > Can anyone help? > > the tr domain is turkey. > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: =C4=B0nan=C3=A7 =C3=87=C4=B1=C4=9F=C5=9Far = >> Date: March 4, 2006 1:35:49 AM PST >> To: jim@well.com >> Subject: A question about squid problem >> >> Hi , >> I found your e-mail address while I was searching for help =20 >> through the net. I will try to explain about my network structure =20 >> and my problem. >> We were using a Windows server as a firewall and gateway and a =20 >> Red Hat as a proxy server. When we had a problem with the firewall =20= >> we replaced it with a Fedora Core ( squid and shorewall are =20 >> configured ) as a proxy,getaway and firewall.Then remove the red =20 >> hot server which was serving as a (squid) proxy . But my problems =20 >> continued. >> >> Below is my squid configuration on Fedora Core ( which is also =20 >> the gateway and firewall ): >> >> acl mydomain src 192.168.10.0/24 >> http_access allow mydomain >> >> http_access deny !mydomain >> >> But when i try to open www.mydomain.com and any other pages under =20= >> www.mydomain.com ( www.mydomain.com/references.asp) i get an error =20= >> ( 111) saying that connection refused. when i clear the proxy =20 >> options the pages are displayed. >> >> I had the same config when i was using Red hat squid but it was =20 >> neither a gateway nor a firewall.It was only running as a proxy. =20 >> Why i get a refused connection error?? >> >> I would be glad if you can support me with this... > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From johnlowry@gmail.com Sun Mar 05 17:49:41 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.196]:24868) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.54 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FG4qq-0000sR-P5 for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:49:40 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n15so801411nfc for ; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:49:07 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=bOqmxG1r0S61roE1utV91II9wrivReVNI+qJtjoX39LnVCUyHoHZzUjT+8Ug1quW+xMw0pfpdDCP/L12NeoHbIHfv1dn/BX8v/3jYl1GfCzOZYcNXWpikniAzZGPjkZvSCCyCamrt4kKLAAx76SVm+GYJ+0sMLfjBui8BVfliac= Received: by 10.49.42.13 with SMTP id u13mr2191062nfj; Sun, 05 Mar 2006 17:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.242.10 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:49:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610603051749m5ed04cbdu4a06ad9313c4a44e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 17:49:06 -0800 From: "John Lowry" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.196 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.196 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5912_2467213.1141609746831" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 03 Mar 2005 10:44:12 +0100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 01:49:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1161 Lines: 29 ------=_Part_5912_2467213.1141609746831 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are always asking here abou= t the group so a flyer with some info would probably be a good idea. -- John Lowry ------=_Part_5912_2467213.1141609746831 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she said t= hat if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like that she woul= d be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our group and the busin= ess we bring in. She also said that people are always asking here about the= group so a flyer with some info would probably be a good idea.

--
John Lowry

------=_Part_5912_2467213.1141609746831-- From jim@well.com Mon Mar 06 08:25:41 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:58947) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGIWX-0005aX-M4 for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:25:40 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26GOuop014634 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:25:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <2E3F1791-AD2E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:28:01 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-146524512 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:25:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2390 Lines: 107 --Apple-Mail-9-146524512 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: jim stockford > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST > To: "John Lowry" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat > > > > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign > file partly made up, complete with > penguins, just lacking enough words. > Lots of thanks. > > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: > >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would >> probably be a good idea. >> >> -- >> John Lowry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > --Apple-Mail-9-146524512 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: jim stockford < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: "John Lowry" < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign file partly made up, complete with penguins, just lacking enough words. Lots of thanks. On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would probably be a good idea. -- John Lowry _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-9-146524512-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Mar 06 08:47:38 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:27846) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGIrf-0005fr-6J for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:47:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 88937 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 16:47:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.44] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 08:47:10 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 08:47:10 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: jim stockford , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <2E3F1791-AD2E-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-90430504-1141663630=:83963" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 16:47:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4061 Lines: 57 --0-90430504-1141663630=:83963 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Jim, Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our balls...etc, place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the flyer. What 'ya think? Vince jim stockford wrote: Begin forwarded message: > From: jim stockford > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST > To: "John Lowry" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat > > > > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign > file partly made up, complete with > penguins, just lacking enough words. > Lots of thanks. > > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: > >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would >> probably be a good idea. >> >> -- >> John Lowry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-90430504-1141663630=:83963 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Jim,
Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our balls...etc,  place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the flyer. What 'ya think?

Vince

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:


Begin forwarded message:

> From: jim stockford
> Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> To: "John Lowry"
> Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about Java Cat
>
>
>
> I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> file partly made up, complete with
> penguins, just lacking enough words.
> Lots of thanks.
>
> On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
>
>> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she
>> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like
>> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our
>> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are
>> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would
>> probably be a good idea.
>>
>> --
>> John Lowry
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sf-lug mailing list
>> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
>> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-90430504-1141663630=:83963-- From jim@well.com Mon Mar 06 09:46:21 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:33866) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGJmS-00064g-JQ for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 09:46:20 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26HjvFQ021218; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:45:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 09:48:29 -0800 To: vincent polite X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-11-151352351 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 17:46:22 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4609 Lines: 200 --Apple-Mail-11-151352351 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.) I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course), so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly in the name of science. As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page- layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc). On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote: > Hey Jim, > Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this=20 > group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from=20= > SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our=20 > balls...etc,=A0 place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe=20 > training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're=20 > computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange=20 > bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and=20 > hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the=20= > flyer. What 'ya think? > > Vince > > jim stockford wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: jim stockford > > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST > > To: "John Lowry" > > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat > > > > > > > > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign > > file partly made up, complete with > > penguins, just lacking enough words. > > Lots of thanks. > > > > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: > > > >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and = she > >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something = like > >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes=20= > our > >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are > >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would > >> probably be a good idea. > >> > >> -- > >> John Lowry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > --Apple-Mail-11-151352351 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.)=20 I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or=20 some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course),=20 so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly=20 in the name of science.=20 As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page- layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).=20 On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote: Hey Jim, Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our balls...etc,=A0 place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the flyer. What 'ya think? Vince jim stockford < wrote: Begin forwarded message: > From: jim stockford > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST > To: "John Lowry" > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat > > > > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign > file partly made up, complete with > penguins, just lacking enough words. > Lots of thanks. > > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: > >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes our >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would >> probably be a good idea. >> >> -- >> John Lowry >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-11-151352351-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Mar 06 10:09:30 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:41929) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGK8g-0006MP-SL for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:09:29 -0800 Received: (qmail 15262 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 18:08:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.44] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:08:50 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:08:50 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: jim stockford In-Reply-To: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-65269865-1141668530=:9461" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:09:31 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6234 Lines: 83 --0-65269865-1141668530=:9461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could do it in OpenOffice, also...As to what I said earlier, It just seems like this group is a good place to demysify somethings , and talk about real geeky things at the sametime. Besides, I kinda like the anarchist feel...Well, I think they actually want me to do some work today... jim stockford wrote: I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.) I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course), so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly in the name of science. As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page- layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc). On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote: > Hey Jim, > Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this > group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from > SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our > balls...etc, place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe > training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're > computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange > bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and > hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the > flyer. What 'ya think? > > Vince > > jim stockford wrote: > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: jim stockford > > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST > > To: "John Lowry" > > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat > > > > > > > > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign > > file partly made up, complete with > > penguins, just lacking enough words. > > Lots of thanks. > > > > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote: > > > >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she > >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like > >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes > our > >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are > >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would > >> probably be a good idea. > >> > >> -- > >> John Lowry > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> sf-lug mailing list > >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > --0-65269865-1141668530=:9461 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could do it in OpenOffice, also...As to what I said earlier, It just seems like this group is a good place to demysify somethings , and talk about real geeky things at the sametime. Besides, I kinda like the anarchist feel...Well, I think they actually want me to do some work today...

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.)
I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or
some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course),
so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly
in the name of science.
As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page-
layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc).


On Mar 6, 2006, at 8:47 AM, vincent polite wrote:

> Hey Jim,
> Why not use the Gimp? I was also thinking, not to structure this
> group (I think that would destroy the beauty of it), take a clue from
> SF-WOW. Make JavaCat more of a "klatch", bitch, scratch our
> balls...etc,  place. Have SF State for speakers, maybe
> training/turoring sessions, if they'll allow us to use they're
> computers. It seems the beauty of this group is we get to exchange
> bits of knowledge, and crash systems with incomplete knowledge, and
> hopefully learn a few things. Maybe that is what you could put on the
> flyer. What 'ya think?
>
> Vince
>
> jim stockford wrote:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: jim stockford
> > Date: March 6, 2006 8:27:29 AM PST
> > To: "John Lowry"
> > Subject: Re: [sf-lug] A quick note about J! ava Cat
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll make one up--I've got an InDesign
> > file partly made up, complete with
> > penguins, just lacking enough words.
> > Lots of thanks.
> >
> > On Mar 5, 2006, at 5:49 PM, John Lowry wrote:
> >
> >> After the meeting I had a quick chat with Gloria, the owner, and she
> >> said that if we want to promote stuff like flyers or something like
> >> that she would be more than happy to have it in there. She likes
> our
> >> group and the business we bring in. She also said that people are
> >> always asking here about the group so a flyer with some info would
> >> probably be a good idea.
> >>
> >> --
> >> John Lowry
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> sf-lug mailing list
> >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>

--0-65269865-1141668530=:9461-- From sverma@sfsu.edu Mon Mar 06 10:26:19 2006 Received: from iron2.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.36]:15258) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGKPM-0006Sy-OD for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:26:18 -0800 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron2.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 06 Mar 2006 10:26:10 -0800 Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006030610272648-36419 ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 10:27:26 -0800 Message-ID: <440C7EA9.9030102@sfsu.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 10:25:45 -0800 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060306164710.88935.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> In-Reply-To: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 03/06/2006 10:27:26, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 03/06/2006 10:26:08, Serialize complete at 03/06/2006 10:26:08 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.36 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 18:26:19 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 916 Lines: 32 jim stockford wrote: > > > I think I love it! (nicely said, by the way.) > I believe I can bring a machine to SF State (or > some other venue, but not the Javacat, of course), > so's to allow breaking and rebuilding it thoroughly > in the name of science. We could arrange for space and possibly a few machines, but usually SFSU space availability is tight, so it will need some planning. Additionally, if SF-LUG makes this event "co-organized" with a student association, then it becomes a lot easier to get rooms, computers, etc. for such events. > As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page- > layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc). > For page layout etc., scribus is a lot better. http://www.scribus.org.uk/ Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Mon Mar 06 11:21:16 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:44743) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGLGS-0006y8-0O for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:21:14 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26JL0DO004626; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:21:00 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:23:32 -0800 To: Lx Rudis , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:21:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1201 Lines: 41 That is a terrific, easy-to-read, demystifying article: > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html In the pro graphics world, PhotoShop is and looks to remain king, according to this article. As to photoshop being a platform, the meaning for users seems to be "more plug-ins". I think the writer did not entirely consider the possibilities of Open Source Software (OSS); there may come a tipping point where forces impel coders to push Gimp capabilities fast, and in that case, Gimp development may be a great deal more rapid than that for proprietary PhotoShop...well, so says I. On Mar 6, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Lx Rudis wrote: > >> As to the Gimp, I didn't know that had a page- >> layout capability (text editing, wrapping, etc). > > i guess you'd need 'scribus' for that? > > i think he's envisioning a less 'layout intensive' > flyer...? i rooted around a bit, found an interesting > article about why graphics designers would want to > stick with photoshop. about 2/3 of the way in there > is an interesting comment about photoshop no longer > being an app, but being a platform..: > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html > > > x > > From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Mar 06 11:49:13 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGLhf-00075o-V1 by authid for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:49:12 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:49:10 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:49:14 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1521 Lines: 36 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > That is a terrific, easy-to-read, demystifying article: > > http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html Vaughan-Nichols is an excellent writer, but this particular article of his would have been better if he'd gotten into the P-word: patents. The GIMP perennially lacks colour-matching, ICC profile colour management (CMYK, RGB, LAB), Pantone integration, and a monitor calibration tool. Those are absolutely _crucial_ for a credible presence in prepress software. Is this because The GIMP's authors don't know how to code those functions? No, absolutely not. The problem is that all of those areas are heavily patent-encumbered, and in general prepress / professional graphics work is a patent minefield (as is the case for digital A/V, too). Probably, all of those functions have been coded for The GIMP a thousand times over -- behind closed doors. Do it in the open, and you'll automatically owe a big pile of royalties. A GIMP superset with proprietary modules to do patent-encumbered things if physically possible, but distribution of same is precluded by The GIMP's GPL licensing. > As to photoshop being a platform, the meaning for users seems to be > "more plug-ins". FYI: The GIMP on MS-Windows can use Photoshop plugins: http://members.home.nl/m.weisbeek/gimp/#ps -- Cheers, Rick Moen "Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Elizabeth Tudor From nbs@sonic.net Mon Mar 06 11:51:30 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:45047) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGLjn-00077a-9w for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:51:29 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k26JpA45023526 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:51:10 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:w4zR1zkXZOm1EvQgYOj7MCMLGeQeWKOs@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k26Jp9hY013778 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:51:09 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k26Jp9QW013776 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:51:09 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:51:09 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:51:31 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 745 Lines: 19 On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 10:08:50AM -0800, vincent polite wrote: > Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine > you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and > textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could > do it in OpenOffice, Best would be Scribus, of course, as it's meant for this kind of thing. (It's a Desktop Publishing (DTP) app.) See: http://www.scribus.org.uk/ Or, for fun, you could always use Tux Paint. >;^) Hehe! -- -bill! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, bill@newbreedsoftware.com CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw From nbs@sonic.net Mon Mar 06 11:53:53 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:33582) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGLm7-00079L-Hv for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:53:52 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k26Jrils000403 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:YOSUEGXL1gTDdFZlNoBbnXiwQfvFhxFW@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k26JrihY015810 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k26Jriw3015809 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:53:44 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:53:53 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 724 Lines: 20 On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 11:49:10AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > A GIMP superset with proprietary modules to do patent-encumbered things > if physically possible, but distribution of same is precluded by The > GIMP's GPL licensing. > I'm dumb today. How does GIMP's GPL licensing affect creation of plugins? Or does it? > FYI: The GIMP on MS-Windows can use Photoshop plugins: > http://members.home.nl/m.weisbeek/gimp/#ps Sadly, it seems it currently cannot do Python-Fu and/or Perl-Fu. I can't remember which. I also doubt that will be the case down the road. -bill! (jealously eyeing Krita, since (1) Gimp is becoming a pain to use and (2) I'm a big KDE whore these days ;^) ... I still *heart* Gimp, but...) From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Mar 06 11:57:55 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGLq5-0007FC-WD by authid for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:57:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:57:52 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060306195752.GT17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060306180156.68169.qmail@web82315.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060306194910.GR17596@linuxmafia.com> <20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060306195344.GB10321@sonic.net> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] javacat flyer app? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:57:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 687 Lines: 18 Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs@sonic.net): > I'm dumb today. How does GIMP's GPL licensing affect creation of plugins? > Or does it? Not creation. Distribution. If you write (or bundle) a proprietary plugin and distribute same, and then some GIMP author can build a case for some of your code being a derivative work of The GIMP's code (arguably feasible), then if he/she can prove that, you've violated his/her copyright by using his/her code in a fashion not allowed by its licence. > (jealously eyeing Krita, since (1) Gimp is becoming a pain to use and > (2) I'm a big KDE whore these days ;^) ... I still *heart* Gimp, but...) KDE's looking better all the time. Quite sweet. From jim@well.com Mon Mar 06 12:20:29 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:50822) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGMBE-0007k7-Ik for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:20:24 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k26KJclR001648; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:19:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net> References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:22:09 -0800 To: Bill Kendrick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1316/Mon Mar 6 10:53:13 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:20:32 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1198 Lines: 39 Crikey, right in our backyard. Of course, I'll try TuxPaint out (Bill Kendrick is the owner/coder/visionary-keeper of TuxPaint). Written in what programming language (I'm guessing it starts with "py")? On Mar 6, 2006, at 11:51 AM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 10:08:50AM -0800, vincent polite wrote: >> Well, you can do simple page layout in Photoshop. I would imagine >> you can do it in the Gimp. A picture of the Peguin on one side and >> textbox on the other side. Highlight and change text. I bet you could >> do it in OpenOffice, > > Best would be Scribus, of course, as it's meant for this kind of thing. > (It's a Desktop Publishing (DTP) app.) > > See: http://www.scribus.org.uk/ > > > Or, for fun, you could always use Tux Paint. >;^) > Hehe! > > -- > -bill! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, > bill@newbreedsoftware.com CDROM, bumper sticker & > apparel > http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ > http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From nbs@sonic.net Mon Mar 06 12:36:28 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:33449) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA1:24) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGMRM-0007uE-N6 for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:36:27 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k26KaKbE010035 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:36:20 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:/rZIlD2nHjbD1/dhqBF26tR07lbNYDel@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k26KaJhY023858 for ; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:36:19 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1/Submit) id k26KaJ1U023857 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:36:19 -0800 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 12:36:19 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060306203619.GB23645@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <6BDCB251-AD39-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060306180850.15260.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> <20060306195109.GA10321@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: A quick note about Java Cat X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 20:36:29 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 331 Lines: 11 On Mon, Mar 06, 2006 at 12:22:09PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > Of course, I'll try TuxPaint out (Bill Kendrick is > the owner/coder/visionary-keeper of TuxPaint). > Written in what programming language (I'm > guessing it starts with "py")? C, actually. :^) Plain ol' C. -bill! (who doesn't know Python yet... still...) From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Mar 06 13:23:33 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:44070) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGNAl-0008Il-Vf for ; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:23:32 -0800 Received: (qmail 75112 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Mar 2006 21:16:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20060306211629.75109.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.44] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 06 Mar 2006 13:16:29 PST Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 13:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1925941377-1141679789=:72559" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] javacat flyer - brouhaha...does it really matter.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2006 21:23:34 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1854 Lines: 13 --0-1925941377-1141679789=:72559 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's a simple flyer. Unless your going to do 4-color printing on a big old Heidelberg press, colour-matching, ICC profile colour management (CMYK, RGB, LAB), Pantone integration, and a monitor calibration tool, doesn't matter. If its for the web, you're not going beyond 72 dpi, printing is 300 dpi, it's just to big. Severe loss of color. Then you also have to figure whether the viewer has a decent screen. I've editted thousands of images for photographers, graphic designers, painters...and haven't had complaints, except for sharpness. Hell, ImageReady works fine for web work. Actually, when you save an image for the web in Photoshop, it gets saved in ImageReady. Think about the job you need to do...My 2and a half meaningless cents. --0-1925941377-1141679789=:72559 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's a simple flyer. Unless your going to do 4-color printing on a big old Heidelberg press, colour-matching, ICC profile colour management (CMYK, RGB, LAB), Pantone integration, and a monitor calibration tool, doesn't matter. If its for the web, you're not going beyond 72 dpi, printing is 300 dpi, it's just to big. Severe loss of color. Then you also have to figure whether the viewer has a decent screen. I've editted thousands of images for photographers, graphic designers, painters...and haven't had complaints, except for sharpness. Hell, ImageReady works fine for web work. Actually, when you save an image for the web in Photoshop, it gets saved in ImageReady. Think about the job you need to do...My 2and a half meaningless cents.
 --0-1925941377-1141679789=:72559-- From jim@well.com Tue Mar 07 09:10:02 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:43071) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FGfgw-0007qs-Hb for ; Tue, 07 Mar 2006 09:10:00 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k27H9QiH027409 for ; Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:09:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <7CB0AF2A-ADFD-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:11:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1317/Mon Mar 6 22:06:47 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] summary of Sunday's meeting discussion X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 17:10:03 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1818 Lines: 57 Here's a quick summary of the sf-lug meeting discussion this last Sunday, March 5. Who was there: John, Andrew, Chris, Vince, LX, jim ---------------- dns quick introductory tutorial by Chris for those willing to crowd around his laptop ---------------- Flocks of unmanned aircraft form Bluetooth Linux clusters search for linux PC104 cluster bluetooth http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2142584362.html mini itx and nano itx form factor X86. ---------------- gtranslate "gTranslate is not affiliated with Google Inc. in any way." a mozilla/firefox extension that uses Google's translation services Chris claims this does a good job with Japanese http://www.aditel.org/~ptomas/extensions/ ---------------- tlearn neural network simulation learn your computer before it learns you--it's a race http://www.ling.udel.edu/colin/courses/psycho_f98/lab1a.html ---------------- g4u ghost for unix--more flexible than dd for copying partition-at-a-time http://www.feyrer.de/g4u/ ---------------- udev is better than devfs: daemon-based, D-BUS messaging for kernels 2.6+ improved /dev/* management persistent device naming for user-defined device names dynamic major/minor numbers http://www.kernel.org/udev http://reactivated.net/writing_udev_rules.html#why http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev_vs_devfs ---------------- sidekick--a device and service for mobile internet access Chris brought his for us to see http://www.cellularchoices.net http://www.danger.com ---------------- good for internet cafe users--set up a vpn on your home machine and avoid snoopers at the next table http://openvpn.net ---------------- the diamond lane--recommended for colo and web hosting http://www.tdl.com ---------------- fiberoptic to the home, either with verizon or AT&T, is this real? we can start paying for it now? From johnlowry@gmail.com Thu Mar 09 21:33:37 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.200]:55172) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHaFm-0006lo-At for ; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:33:36 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id l23so297516nfc for ; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.199.10 with SMTP id w10mr1241647nff; Thu, 09 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.245.10 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610603092133h364db094vba0017e9c95d0ee@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:33:23 -0800 From: "John Lowry" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.200 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.200 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_9585_20787990.1141968803568" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Greatest. Coffee place. Ever X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:33:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 29 ------=_Part_9585_20787990.1141968803568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=3D06/03/07/1556230&from=3Drss The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if we burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about them or something? -- John Lowry ------=_Part_9585_20787990.1141968803568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=3D06/03/07/155= 6230&from=3Drss

The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if we burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about them or something?

--
John Lowry

------=_Part_9585_20787990.1141968803568-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 08:26:30 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:41231) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHkRK-0002VS-VS for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:26:27 -0800 Received: (qmail 75828 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 16:25:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310162557.75826.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:25:57 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:25:57 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: John Lowry , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <528b20610603092133h364db094vba0017e9c95d0ee@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1282244982-1142007957=:75824" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Greatest. Coffee place. Ever X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:26:31 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1494 Lines: 26 --0-1282244982-1142007957=:75824 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's a pretty good idea John!! John Lowry wrote: http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/07/1556230&from=rss The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if we burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about them or something? -- John Lowry _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1282244982-1142007957=:75824 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's a pretty good idea John!!

John Lowry <johnlowry@gmail.com> wrote:
http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/07/1556230&from=rss

The LinuxCaffe in Toronto, freaking awesome. What do you think about if we burn some Knoppix CDs and leave them there with maybe a flier about them or something?

--
John Lowry

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-1282244982-1142007957=:75824-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 12:44:27 2006 Received: from web80411.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.66]:24676) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHoSe-0004Ba-8F for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:44:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 90596 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 20:43:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:43:35 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:43:35 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: christian , "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.66 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-502721020-1142023415=:86902" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions?? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 20:44:27 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7970 Lines: 60 --0-502721020-1142023415=:86902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that could be stored away. Bayle Emlein wrote: To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com From: "Bayle Emlein" Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:14:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions?? Hi Carrie, I've been using OpenOffice since before it evolved from StarOffice. Haven't had any problems with it. Working in the schools and low-income families, it has performed a real service in making donated computers really useful. Bayle Emlein Assistive Technology/Career Transition Specialist Oakland Unified School District 2850 West Street Oakland, CA 94606 Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html SPONSORED LINKS Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-502721020-1142023415=:86902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that could be stored away.

Bayle Emlein <pcc@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com
From: "Bayle Emlein" <pcc@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:14:11 -0800
Subject: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions??

Hi Carrie,
      I've been using OpenOffice since before it evolved from StarOffice. Haven't had any problems with it. Working in the schools and low-income families, it has performed a real service in making donated computers really useful.
Bayle Emlein
Assistive Technology/Career Transition Specialist
Oakland Unified School District
2850 West Street
Oakland, CA  94606

Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html



SPONSORED LINKS
Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access
Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




--0-502721020-1142023415=:86902-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Mar 10 13:14:36 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHowW-0004V6-3T by authid for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:14:36 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:14:35 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060310204335.90594.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions?? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:14:37 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2098 Lines: 43 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know > where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that > could be stored away. There's lots of potential for use / promotion of OpenOffice.org and other open-source software by schools and social-service outfits. I've seen a number of efforts by computerists to push that along -- all of them well intended, but with, unfortunately, strikingly low rates of success. The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them. They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going. If they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing technical assistance for which there is simply no budget. Someone like the quoted Bayle Emlein (Assistive Technology/Career Transition Specialist, Oakland School District) is in a slightly better position to get the message across -- because of being an insider. SF-LUG might consider trying to find out what resources he needs to make the case. Quoting the WoW Yahoo Group's footer: > Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) > More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post > Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html I realise this is specifically the San Francisco Women on the Web mailing list we're talking about, but one of my rules for living is to avoid any forum said to be run by a "listmom": Administration tends to be heavy-handed and very high-context. (The male "listmoms" tend statistically to be particularly bad in this area. I first noticed this odd subculture among, of course, certain groups of Macintosh users.) Your Mileage May Differ. From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 13:41:00 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:29374) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHpLI-0004aJ-H5 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:40:58 -0800 Received: (qmail 69087 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 21:39:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310213959.69085.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:39:59 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 13:39:59 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1167498999-1142026799=:68594" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions?? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:41:01 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5977 Lines: 69 --0-1167498999-1142026799=:68594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Rick, I think were thinking along the same path...Actually, I also saw this on the same mailing list. They didn't say what School District it was. But, one had a complete computer failure. All teacher records, lesson plans...etc. were lost. I also heard that a non-profit runs the Oakland Schools' computer system...I'm sure we won't change the world. Maybe effect part of it with this? Thanks, Vince Rick Moen wrote: Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know > where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that > could be stored away. There's lots of potential for use / promotion of OpenOffice.org and other open-source software by schools and social-service outfits. I've seen a number of efforts by computerists to push that along -- all of them well intended, but with, unfortunately, strikingly low rates of success. The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them. They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going. If they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing technical assistance for which there is simply no budget. Someone like the quoted Bayle Emlein (Assistive Technology/Career Transition Specialist, Oakland School District) is in a slightly better position to get the message across -- because of being an insider. SF-LUG might consider trying to find out what resources he needs to make the case. Quoting the WoW Yahoo Group's footer: > Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) > More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post > Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html I realise this is specifically the San Francisco Women on the Web mailing list we're talking about, but one of my rules for living is to avoid any forum said to be run by a "listmom": Administration tends to be heavy-handed and very high-context. (The male "listmoms" tend statistically to be particularly bad in this area. I first noticed this odd subculture among, of course, certain groups of Macintosh users.) Your Mileage May Differ. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1167498999-1142026799=:68594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Rick,
I think were thinking along the same path...Actually, I also saw this on the same mailing list. They didn't say what School District it was. But, one had a complete computer failure. All teacher records, lesson plans...etc. were lost. I also heard that a non-profit runs the Oakland Schools' computer system...I'm sure we won't change the world. Maybe effect part of it with this?

Thanks,
Vince

Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com):

> I saw this posting on this mailing list I'm apart (SF-WOW). Don't know
> where to go with off the top of my head. But, it seemed something that
> could be stored away.

There's lots of potential for use / promotion of OpenOffice.org and other
open-source software by schools and social-service outfits. I've seen a
number of efforts by computerists to push that along -- all of them well
intended, but with, unfortunately, strikingly low rates of success.

The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of
giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them.
They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and
volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going. If
they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the
unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into
something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing
technical assistance for which there is simply no budget.

Someone like the quoted Bayle Emlein (Assistive Technology/Career
Transition Specialist, Oakland School District) is in a slightly better
position to get the message across -- because of being an insider.
SF-LUG might consider trying to find out what resources he needs to make
the case.


Quoting the WoW Yahoo Group's footer:

> Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
> More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
> Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html

I realise this is specifically the San Francisco Women on the Web
mailing list we're talking about, but one of my rules for living is to
avoid any forum said to be run by a "listmom": Administration tends to
be heavy-handed and very high-context. (The male "listmoms" tend
statistically to be particularly bad in this area. I first noticed this
odd subculture among, of course, certain groups of Macintosh users.)
Your Mileage May Differ.



_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-1167498999-1142026799=:68594-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Fri Mar 10 15:34:24 2006 Received: from web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.124]:30217) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FHr7X-0005Mw-TM for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:34:23 -0800 Received: (qmail 92874 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Mar 2006 23:33:59 -0000 Message-ID: <20060310233359.92872.qmail@web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31412.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:33:59 PST Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:33:59 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060310211435.GM17596@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.124 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1704290813-1142033639=:88701" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Re: [new-sfwow] (tech)(discussion) openoffice opinions?? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:34:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3378 Lines: 40 --0-1704290813-1142033639=:88701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen wrote:The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them. They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going. If they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing technical assistance for which there is simply no budget. Definitely. I spent some time working for the largest and oldest educational media company. Part of my job involved helping set up meetings with various State Superintendants of Education and on one occasion a State Governor who wanted to wire the secondary schools in his state. The process is VERY political; I remember one consultant describing how he could help us navigate the "byzantine procurement process" of a particular school system. My guess is that someone near the top of the heirarchy, maybe even the Mayor himself, will want to make the announcement, and take the credit for, adopting a change to any new technology. Just remember, the revolution will not be televised. Cheers, Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --0-1704290813-1142033639=:88701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com> wrote:
The schools and social-welfare bureaucracies have a long history of
giving the polite brush-off to unfamiliar outsiders wanting to "help" them.
They have good reason, from their perspective, for this posture, and
volunteers wishing to get involved will find it very slow going. If
they listen carefully, they'll hear a lot of polite skepticism, and the
unspoken but obvious assumption that you're asking them to buy into
something exotic that will be unmaintainable without expensive ongoing
technical assistance for which there is simply no budget.

Definitely. I spent some time working for the largest and oldest educational media company. Part of my job involved helping set up meetings with various State Superintendants of Education and on one occasion a State Governor who wanted to wire the secondary schools in his state. The process is VERY political; I remember one consultant describing how he could help us navigate the "byzantine procurement process" of a particular school system. My guess is that someone near the top of the heirarchy, maybe even the Mayor himself, will want to make the announcement, and take the credit for, adopting a change to any new technology.

Just remember, the revolution will not be televised.

Cheers,

Adrien




Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --0-1704290813-1142033639=:88701-- From jim@well.com Sat Mar 11 10:43:45 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:44456) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FI93q-00042t-2O for ; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:43:44 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2BIhOuU023178; Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:43:24 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <47B32989-B12F-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 10:45:58 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1324/Fri Mar 10 22:47:36 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Monday March 20, Marilyn Davis on Python (at Javacat) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:43:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1947 Lines: 54 Discussion at the last two meetings has included a fair amount of code-related talk. Our next meeting has, for the first time in sf-lug history, a scheduled person (I don't want to say "speaker" 'cause the format will remain--show up and do as you please, talk or listen, chew with your mouth open--one or more conversations seem to keep rolling at our meetings). This person is a python developer--actually uses python for product development, and also teaches programming at one of the state universities (I forget which). She's real engaging, accessible, fun to talk to, and loves python, so if anybody can explain why use python rather than php or perl or java..., it's she: http://www.deliberate.com/ # there are a number of (I think) interesting # links here--she's into community, a bit of a rebel # it seems to me http://www.deliberate.com/w4g/conf97/marilyn.html # this page is not immediately accessible from the # deliberate.com top page: has a short bio and pic Making a commitment to a programming language is (i think) a big deal. you have to learn not just the language itself, but any particular tools, and most importantly: the libraries, modules, packages, etc. That's a lot of learning and a lot of getting used to. There aren't many people who are expert in more than one language, so if you're thinking about coding for a living, think hard. Python is a general purpose, modern, mature object oriented language designed for maintenance and readability, somewhat oriented toward web stuff. http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/ # there are lots of packages http://www.python.org/ # main python page for the world http://www.baypiggies.net/ http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies # bay area python user's group, meets once a month # on the google campus http://www.dickbaldwin.com/tocpyth.htm # good introductory tutorial I bcc'd marilyn so she can correct any misinformation. From jim@well.com Mon Mar 13 09:17:06 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:34264) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FIqf9-0005QR-BL for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:17:05 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.101] (dsl081-061-186.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net [64.81.61.186]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2DHGlRJ003580 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:16:47 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-Id: <82D86BD6-B2B5-11DA-86D9-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:19:21 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-35-754404318 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: PGP job opportunity X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:17:06 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1886 Lines: 89 --Apple-Mail-35-754404318 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed job opportunity for a linux and networking support person in Palo Alto. Begin forwarded message: > From: John Westien > Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: PGP > > Hi Jim, > > I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website. > > I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We > are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and > networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The > location is based in Palo Alto. > > Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a > position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address. > > Thanks, > > John > --Apple-Mail-35-754404318 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII job opportunity for a linux and networking support person in Palo Alto. Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: John Westien < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: PGP Hi Jim, I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website. I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The location is based in Palo Alto. Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address. Thanks, John --Apple-Mail-35-754404318-- From jim@well.com Thu Mar 16 22:01:39 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:33944) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FK81n-0007Tk-Ne for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:01:38 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-206-205.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.206.205]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2H61Sqb002189 for ; Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:01:28 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:04:04 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1335/Wed Mar 15 20:58:43 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] python for our Monday meeting X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 06:01:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 279 Lines: 11 Monday, March 20, from 6:00 till 8:00 PM, Marilyn Davis will be at Javacat to talk with us about Python and why it is cool-- really cool. This is an unusual opportunity to get an overview of this modern, object oriented programming language from a developer who loves it. jim From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 17 16:51:38 2006 Received: from web80402.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.57]:31381) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FKPf5-0006Zj-JK for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:51:37 -0800 Received: (qmail 9506 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Mar 2006 00:51:04 -0000 Message-ID: <20060318005104.9504.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:51:04 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:51:04 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.57 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1159040250-1142643064=:5587" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Might at first seem off the base...."Draft law threatens iPod's future in France" X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 00:51:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1794 Lines: 19 --0-1159040250-1142643064=:5587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph; ...But Apple's transformation into a major force in digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said. In that case, the French move will turn out to have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world except Apple would like."... The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business --0-1159040250-1142643064=:5587 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph;
...But Apple's transformation into a major force in digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said.
In that case, the French move will turn out to have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world except Apple would like."...
The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business

--0-1159040250-1142643064=:5587-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Sat Mar 18 08:28:55 2006 Received: from web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.121]:43106) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FKeI7-0004Dw-6o for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:28:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 90571 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Mar 2006 16:28:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20060318162825.90569.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:28:25 PST Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:28:25 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" In-Reply-To: <20060318005104.9504.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.121 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-727782212-1142699305=:85738" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Might at first seem off the base...."Draft law threatens iPod's future in France" X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 16:28:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4298 Lines: 50 --0-727782212-1142699305=:85738 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apple could potentially have anti-trust problems, if they ever try to in/prohibit other companies from accessing content (from Disney or others.) It's pretty clear Apple's strategy is to tightly integrate iPods and Macs with the iTunes web site; there is nothing wrong with that, but if things like Disney titles become available only to subscribers of an Apple service, then anti-trust is an issue. Even if, say, one other company's media player can access the content, anti-trust can still occur if accessing such content is more difficult, or if the other company has less favorable terms accessing the content, or access is limited in some form. The much anticipated digital convergence is finally starting to happen. It is still early in the game. Apple has taken the early lead. Cheers, Adrien vincent polite wrote: But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph; ...But Apple's transformation into a major force in digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said. In that case, the French move will turn out to have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world except Apple would like."... The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --0-727782212-1142699305=:85738 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Apple could potentially have anti-trust problems, if they ever
try to in/prohibit other companies from accessing content (from
Disney or others.) It's pretty clear Apple's strategy is to tightly
integrate iPods and Macs with the iTunes web site; there is nothing
wrong with that, but if things like Disney titles become available only
to subscribers of an Apple service, then anti-trust is an issue.
Even if, say, one other company's media player can access the
content, anti-trust can still occur if accessing such content is
more difficult, or if the other company has less favorable terms
accessing the content, or access is limited in some form.

The much anticipated digital convergence is finally starting to happen.
It is still early in the game. Apple has taken the early lead.

Cheers,

Adrien


vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
But, I think it is interesting. Especially the last paragraph;
...But Apple's transformation into a major force in digital entertainment may ultimately lead to antitrust challenges elsewhere, including the United States, Kay (Roger Kay of U.S.-based research firm Endpoint Technologies Associates), said.
In that case, the French move will turn out to have been just the start of something bigger, he added. "Creating an open version of the iPod ecosystem is what everybody in the world except Apple would like."...
The full article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/03/17/financial/f125642S74.DTL&type=business

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --0-727782212-1142699305=:85738-- From jim@well.com Sat Mar 18 14:13:48 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:52087) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FKjg1-0006U1-DW for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:13:47 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ip-216-36-70-82.dsl.sjc.megapath.net [216.36.70.82]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2IMDTM5013067 for ; Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:16:08 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] job opening X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 22:13:49 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1913 Lines: 54 Check it out if you wanna code real time linux network apps in Sta=20 Clara: ------------------------------------ I am working with a privately-held, venture funded enterprise=20 software company in Santa Clara CA. We are working on cutting edge technology which should be attractive=20= to any contractor looking for a new gig. =A0 We are looking for Linux Contractors and I would like to know if I=20= can post a job description=85 Laurie DeGange Senior Technical Recruiter 3Leaf Networks Office - 408-235-1770 Cell =96 408-402-2364=A0 =A0 Company Description: We are a privately-held, venture-funded enterprise software company=20= based in Santa Clara, California. We are developing the infrastructure required to support both=20 scale-up and scale-out virtual servers in the enterprise data center=20 enabling customers to achieve higher levels of utilization, increased=20 availability, reduction in costs, and improved scalability. This unique=20= approach is transparent to applications that are resident in the=20 enterprise today. Culturally we are a mature and experienced team. Technologically, we=20= blend the best of high end virtualization with heavy duty enterprise=20 servers. If you like to do big things, we're looking for you! Senior Linux Contractor: Senior Linux Kernel contractor to develop and maintain system for=20 server virtualization in enterprise-class software systems. Must work=20= well in a medium sized team of very senior developers and architects. Must have a thorough understanding of networking and storage in Unix=20= platforms. Experience with cache coherence mechanisms in any multiprocessor=20 environment a plus. Requirements: -Linux Networking & Storage Kernel Drivers -C/C++ RTOS/VxWorks -Linux TCP Application development -NFS SMB/NCP -iSCSI -Ethernet -Port Layer -Storage Networking -Network Management -Sniffers From jim@well.com Sun Mar 19 13:26:16 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:46304) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FL5Pc-0007Fw-1t for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:26:15 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ip-216-36-70-82.dsl.sjc.megapath.net [216.36.70.82]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2JLQ23m023338; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:26:03 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:28:45 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1341/Sun Mar 19 10:04:17 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] gone south again X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:26:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 25 hiya all my machine was moaning and groaning for days, somewhere down deep I knew the end was near. it died, i took it to ActNet for resurrection (very fast return!), but i can't get it to eat and spit 64.81.61.186. (My *.*.*.126 machine is working....) I've repointed the sf=96lug.org domain name to a new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul Street. Please check it out if ( http://www.sf-lug.org ) ; else mailto: jim@well.com fi Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board! http://www.circlesoft.com If not, send curses and suggestions to jim. Don't forget Python Monday night at Javacat! From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Mar 19 16:28:15 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FL8Fq-0008SF-4L by authid for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:28:14 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:28:12 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] gone south again X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:28:16 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 841 Lines: 24 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > my machine was moaning and groaning for days, > somewhere down deep I knew the end was near. Yes, I noticed a few days ago that it was no longer serving up the SF-LUG Web site. > I've repointed the sf?lug.org domain name to a > new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul > Street. Please check it out [...] > Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round > of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board! > http://www.circlesoft.com The virtual hosting is working great, and the DNS is resolving properly. Much thanks to Circlesoft! -- Cheers, "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is tainted." Rick Moen -- some commentator of the day "It's twice tainted: rick@linuxmafia.com 'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine." -- Mark Twain, replying. From jim@well.com Sun Mar 19 19:34:01 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:64082) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLB9X-0001XT-KL ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:34:01 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-24-11.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.24.11]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K3Xpoi013955; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:33:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <5845ECE2-B78F-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060320002812.GH17596@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:36:28 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1341/Sun Mar 19 10:04:17 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] gone south again X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 03:34:02 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1175 Lines: 42 ignore previous bleating--I'd forgotten to put in the "http://" part. link works now. On Mar 19, 2006, at 4:28 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > >> my machine was moaning and groaning for days, >> somewhere down deep I knew the end was near. > > Yes, I noticed a few days ago that it was no longer serving up the > SF-LUG Web site. > >> I've repointed the sf?lug.org domain name to a >> new IP address, that of a machine at 200 Paul >> Street. Please check it out > [...] >> Assuming you get the sf-lug webstie, a round >> of thanks for Circlesoft for letting us on board! >> http://www.circlesoft.com > > The virtual hosting is working great, and the DNS is resolving > properly. > Much thanks to Circlesoft! > > -- > Cheers, "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is > tainted." > Rick Moen -- some commentator of the day "It's > twice tainted: > rick@linuxmafia.com 'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine." -- Mark Twain, > replying. > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim@well.com Sun Mar 19 20:50:24 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:34727) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLCLU-0001xv-MS for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:50:24 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-24-11.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.24.11]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2K4oGWr005562 for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:50:17 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <64711260-B7CD-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 20:52:54 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1342/Sun Mar 19 13:40:32 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 04:50:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 626 Lines: 18 Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux demos and mayhem. I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not scheduled) meeting. That's the latest news. jim PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the more individual attention we get. From rick@rbsmith.com Sun Mar 19 21:41:44 2006 Received: from bsdwebhosting.net ([209.120.136.141]:4664 helo=pluto.bsdwebhosting.net) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLD98-0002Li-Se for ; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:43 -0800 Received: (qmail 91305 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2006 05:41:26 -0000 Received: (for user u000173); Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:41:26 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.77.1?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 05:41:26 -0000 Message-ID: <441E40A5.4020108@rbsmith.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:41:57 -0800 From: Rick Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of rick@rbsmith.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.120.136.141 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@rbsmith.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:41:44 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1035 Lines: 28 jim stockford wrote: > Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco > State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus > Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in > once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have > offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux > demos and mayhem. > I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered > to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not > scheduled) meeting. I'd be willing. I've had conflicts with Sunday and Monday. so haven't done much showing up recently. I'll do what I can to show up. Most other weeknight and weekend time is free, but Sunday morning through lunch and Monday night. > That's the latest news. > jim > PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python > speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python > night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the > more individual attention we get. Heh, sorry to have missed the chance. And sorry to miss the talk. Hope it goes well! Thanks Jim. -- Rick From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 08:22:37 2006 Received: from web80407.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.62]:48020) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLN8e-000733-U9 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:22:34 -0800 Received: (qmail 38649 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 16:21:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20060320162130.38647.qmail@web80407.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80407.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:21:30 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:21:30 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: jim stockford , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <64711260-B7CD-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.62 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-518502684-1142871690=:33496" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] sf-lug at SFSU X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:22:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2314 Lines: 38 --0-518502684-1142871690=:33496 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll go. I can't say I'll make every meeting. But, I think it could be a nice little change. Thanks Sameer and Cyrus jim stockford wrote: Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux demos and mayhem. I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not scheduled) meeting. That's the latest news. jim PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the more individual attention we get. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-518502684-1142871690=:33496 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll go. I can't say I'll make every meeting. But, I think it could be a nice little change. Thanks Sameer and Cyrus

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

Thanks to Sameer, the IMSA bunch at San Francisco
State University (IMSA at SFSU), in the person of Cyrus
Makalinaw, claims to be definitely interested in
once-a-month SF-LUG meetings on campus. I have
offered to traipse out at least one computer for Linux
demos and mayhem.
I'm hoping the few of you who prematurely offered
to come on down will do so for our first (as yet not
scheduled) meeting.
That's the latest news.
jim
PS I'm a little worried, given tomorrow night's Python
speaker, that nobody has made "Monday Python
night" jokes. Well, the fewer people who come, the
more individual attention we get.


_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-518502684-1142871690=:33496-- From grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 10:04:45 2006 Received: from web53604.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.37]:26905) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLOjj-0007vZ-R2 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:04:44 -0800 Received: (qmail 92400 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 18:03:50 -0000 Message-ID: <20060320180350.92398.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [84.77.190.20] by web53604.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:03:50 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: tobi x To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.37 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-758744773-1142877830=:90144" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] new to the group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:04:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3051 Lines: 32 --0-758744773-1142877830=:90144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello all! my name is t.rex and i am new to this group! i have known about linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of open-source and less-commercial programming. but i never took the initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now... i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying to learn more. i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed. from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and perhaps python or perl [for learning programming]. i am confused about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.] i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be hearing more from me in these coming days, heh. any advice or guidance would be much appreciated! peace, t.rex --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! --0-758744773-1142877830=:90144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hello all!

my name is t.rex and i am new to this group!  i have known about linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of open-source and less-commercial programming.  but i never took the initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now...

i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying to learn more.  i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.

from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and perhaps python or perl [for learning programming].  i am confused about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.]

i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be hearing more from me in these coming days, heh.  any advice or guidance would be much appreciated!

peace,
t.rex

Yahoo! Travel
Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! --0-758744773-1142877830=:90144-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Mon Mar 20 10:12:58 2006 Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.61]:21647) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLOrb-0007z0-Ei for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:12:57 -0800 Received: (qmail 87114 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Mar 2006 18:12:09 -0000 Message-ID: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:12:09 PST Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:12:09 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: tobi x , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060320180350.92398.qmail@web53604.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.61 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-610549923-1142878329=:83931" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] new to the group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:12:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4203 Lines: 40 --0-610549923-1142878329=:83931 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey t. welcome to the group. even though i've been lazily involved in this group for about 2 years, i'm still like you. to bad you aren't in the city tonight. jim set up a guest on python. feel free to ask stupid questions. it always leads to more interesting discussions. v. brontosaurus tobi x wrote: hello all! my name is t.rex and i am new to this group! i have known about linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of open-source and less-commercial programming. but i never took the initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now... i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying to learn more. i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed. from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and perhaps python or perl [for learning programming]. i am confused about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.] i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be hearing more from me in these coming days, heh. any advice or guidance would be much appreciated! peace, t.rex --------------------------------- Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!_______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-610549923-1142878329=:83931 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey t.
welcome to the group. even though i've been lazily involved in this group for about 2 years, i'm still like you. to bad you aren't in the city tonight. jim set up a guest on python. feel free to ask stupid questions. it always leads to more interesting discussions.

v. brontosaurus

tobi x <grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com> wrote:
hello all!

my name is t.rex and i am new to this group!  i have known about linux for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of open-source and less-commercial programming.  but i never took the initiative to learn more about it for myself...until now...

i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying to learn more.  i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.

from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and perhaps python or perl [for learning programming].  i am confused about what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my computer to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for multimedia [to produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.]

i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for more time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be hearing more from me in these coming days, heh.  any advice or guidance would be much appreciated!

peace,
t.rex
Yahoo! Travel
Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!_______________________________________________
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http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-610549923-1142878329=:83931-- From kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com Mon Mar 20 10:34:11 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-04.bluehost.com ([70.103.189.14]:52512) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLPCX-00083J-Nk for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:34:10 -0800 Received: (qmail 848 invoked by uid 0); 20 Mar 2006 18:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box54.bluehost.com) (70.98.111.54) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 20 Mar 2006 18:33:39 -0000 Received: from [65.88.67.254] (helo=fgrw60202.psoftad.net) by box54.bluehost.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FLPCF-00061E-NR for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:33:39 -0700 From: kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:34:15 -0700 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 References: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> X-Identified-User: {840:box54.bluehost.com:kevinkem:kevinkempterllc.com} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 65.88.67.254 authed with kevinkempterllc.com} Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.103.189.14 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] new to the group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:34:12 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1944 Lines: 47 Try this link to help you choose a distro... http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php On Monday 20 March 2006 11:12, vincent polite wrote: > hey t. > welcome to the group. even though i've been lazily involved in this > group for about 2 years, i'm still like you. to bad you aren't in the city > tonight. jim set up a guest on python. feel free to ask stupid questions. > it always leads to more interesting discussions. > > v. brontosaurus > > tobi x wrote: hello all! > > my name is t.rex and i am new to this group! i have known about linux > for years now and have always been a supporter of its ideas of open-source > and less-commercial programming. but i never took the initiative to learn > more about it for myself...until now... > > i don't know much about programming, but i've been reading up and trying > to learn more. i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or > maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and > linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed. > > from what i've read, the first step is to download the linux system and > perhaps python or perl [for learning programming]. i am confused about > what version of linux i should dl.. all i know is that i want my computer > to be secure, used for programming as i learn, and also for multimedia [to > produce music, edit films, graphic design etc.] > > i am from the bay area, but currently live abroad, which allows for more > time to dedicate to this endeavour... so you'll probably be hearing more > from me in these coming days, heh. any advice or guidance would be much > appreciated! > > peace, > t.rex > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Travel > Find great deals to the top 10 hottest > destinations!_______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing > list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Mar 20 10:54:28 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLPWJ-000894-KL by authid for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:54:23 -0800 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:54:16 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060320185414.GK17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060320181209.87112.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] new to the group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:54:31 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 652 Lines: 17 Quoting kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com (kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com): > Try this link to help you choose a distro... > http://www.zegeniestudios.net/ldc/index.php It's getting pretty good! For further useful background, read http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Linux/linux-new.html#distros (Karsten's Distributions Guide) and consult http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major (DistroWatch). -- Cheers, "What a pity [Standard Oil exec] H. H. Rogers's money is tainted." Rick Moen -- some commentator of the day "It's twice tainted: rick@linuxmafia.com 'Tain't yours, and 'tain't mine." -- Mark Twain, replying. From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Mar 21 06:30:31 2006 Received: from web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.121]:22808) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLhsL-0001BR-UO for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:30:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 20502 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 14:30:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20060321143012.20498.qmail@web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.117.41] by web31409.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:30:12 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SFLUG Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.121 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1162729325-1142951412=:18491" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Last night's Python presentation X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:30:32 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1163 Lines: 28 --0-1162729325-1142951412=:18491 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd like to thank Marilyn Davis for her Python presentation at last night's SFLUG meeting. I found it both informative and entertaining. The slides showing results of the programming language productivity study were particularly interesting, good food for thought. Cheers, Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-1162729325-1142951412=:18491 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd like to thank Marilyn Davis for her Python presentation at last
night's SFLUG meeting. I found it both informative and entertaining.
The slides showing results of the programming language productivity
study were particularly interesting, good food for thought.

Cheers,

Adrien


Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-1162729325-1142951412=:18491-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Mar 21 06:50:23 2006 Received: from web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.120]:41140) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLiBJ-0001GP-Md for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:50:22 -0800 Received: (qmail 34359 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 14:49:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20060321144947.34357.qmail@web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.117.41] by web31408.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:49:47 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:49:47 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <200603201134.15440.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.120 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2023915009-1142952587=:34317" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] new to the group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:50:23 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3991 Lines: 50 --0-2023915009-1142952587=:34317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote:> ... i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or > maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and > linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed. Hi Kevin, Welcome to the group! I've been installing Linux on laptops for years. The one distribution I've found to consistently work and install easily has been SuSE. Specifically, SuSE 9.3. SuSE 9.3 is, IMHO, the best release SuSE has put out. I had lots of problems with SuSE 10.0. The word is that SuSE 10.1 looks really good, but I'll have to wait and test it before passing judgement. So, for your laptop SuSE 9.3, would be by far the easiest to install. SuSE also comes with lots of packages. SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many. Some people also don't like the proprietary stuff (some drivers) SuSE puts in their distro. The amazing thing about SuSE is I've been installing it on different laptops since 1999 and it has always worked well. By the way, the disk partition resizing feature of SuSE's installation is very easy and works well. If you want to use a Debian based distribution, you could try the latest Kanotix (release 2005-4). I wasn't able to get earlier Kanotix releases to work well on my laptop (an IBM Thinkpad T-20), but Kanotix 2005-4 works fine. You can find Kanotix at http://www.kanotix.org. I'm sure there are other distros that will work on your laptop; the two just mentioned are the ones I'm sticking with because they were the least hassle to install and they've worked well for me. Cheers, Adrien --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --0-2023915009-1142952587=:34317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote:
> ... i am thinking about transitioning to a linux system, or
> maybe partitioning my laptop to have both the existing windows xp and
> linux, but i'm not sure how to proceed.
Hi Kevin,

Welcome to the group! I've been installing Linux on laptops for years.
The one distribution I've found to consistently work and install easily
has been SuSE. Specifically, SuSE 9.3. SuSE 9.3 is, IMHO, the best
release SuSE has put out. I had lots of problems with SuSE 10.0. The word
is that SuSE 10.1 looks really good, but I'll have to wait and test it before
passing judgement. So, for your laptop SuSE 9.3, would be by far
the easiest to install. SuSE also comes with lots of packages.
SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many. Some people also don't
like the proprietary stuff (some drivers) SuSE puts in their distro.
The amazing thing about SuSE is I've been installing it on different
laptops since 1999 and it has always worked well. By the way,
the disk partition resizing feature of SuSE's installation is very easy
and works well.

If you want to use  a Debian based distribution, you could try the latest
Kanotix (release 2005-4). I wasn't able to get earlier Kanotix releases
to work well on my laptop (an IBM Thinkpad T-20), but Kanotix 2005-4
works fine. You can find Kanotix at http://www.kanotix.org. I'm sure there
are other distros that will work on your laptop; the two just mentioned
are the ones I'm sticking with because they were the least hassle to
install and they've worked well for me.

Cheers,

Adrien


Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --0-2023915009-1142952587=:34317-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Mar 21 06:54:57 2006 Received: from web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.126]:45743) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLiFu-0001I4-78 for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:54:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 13562 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Mar 2006 14:54:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.117.41] by web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:54:32 PST Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 06:54:32 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: SFLUG Mailing List MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.126 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-768695416-1142952872=:13255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 14:54:57 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1283 Lines: 26 --0-768695416-1142952872=:13255 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation. Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it, maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be? There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ... (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-768695416-1142952872=:13255 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation.
Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?
There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
(We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)


Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-768695416-1142952872=:13255-- From morpheus2485@gmail.com Tue Mar 21 22:42:51 2006 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.197]:19803) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FLx3P-00083M-Qz for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:42:51 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i31so68934wra for ; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.131.4 with SMTP id i4mr518976pyn; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.18 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:42:38 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:42:38 +0000 From: "David Reber" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of morpheus2485@gmail.com designates 64.233.184.197 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.184.197 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: morpheus2485@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_13450_28145528.1143009758217" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:42:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2733 Lines: 64 ------=_Part_13450_28145528.1143009758217 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline that would be awesome ~David On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > > There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation. > Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it, > maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be? > There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ... > (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.) > > > ------------------------------ > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomailto share photos without annoying attachments. > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > ------=_Part_13450_28145528.1143009758217 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline that would be awesome
~David

On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe <= alamozzz@yahoo.com> wrote:
There was constant reference to Ruby at last= night's Python presentation.
Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert t= o come and speak about it,
maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who = that expert could be?
There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...=
(We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)
=


=09 =09=09

Yahoo! Mail
=20 Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachm= ents.


_______________________________________________
= sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia= .com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



------=_Part_13450_28145528.1143009758217-- From grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com Wed Mar 22 06:24:39 2006 Received: from web53602.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.35]:47557) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM4GI-0002hB-Aq for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:24:38 -0800 Received: (qmail 91174 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 14:24:25 -0000 Message-ID: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [84.77.139.119] by web53602.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:24:24 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 06:24:24 -0800 (PST) From: tobi x To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.190.37.35 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1133526206-1143037464=:90595" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] questions and thanks X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:24:39 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4981 Lines: 47 --0-1133526206-1143037464=:90595 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian! This is tobi [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to! ; ) Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference - that its the only large distro that functions with open development on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers] to revise and adapt. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming. Is Debian good for multimedia work? My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film editing. I want to learn Python, and how to make a website. So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things? Also, Adrian said: "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many." What is RPM based? And what exactly is GNU? If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]? I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are screwed and I don't know how to fix it! Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated! tobi --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-1133526206-1143037464=:90595 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!  This is tobi [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to!   ; )

Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on

http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference

- that its the only large distro that functions with open development on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers] to revise and adapt.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming.

Is Debian good for multimedia work?

My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film editing.  I want to learn Python, and how to make a website.

So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things?

Also,
Adrian said:
    "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."

What is RPM based?  And what exactly is GNU?

If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?

I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are screwed and I don't know how to fix it!

Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!

tobi

Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --0-1133526206-1143037464=:90595-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Mar 22 08:34:34 2006 Received: from web80405.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.60]:24391) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM6I1-0003m0-C4 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:34:33 -0800 Received: (qmail 41474 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 16:34:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20060322163420.41472.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:34:20 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:34:20 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: tobi x , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.60 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1081371940-1143045260=:35511" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] questions and thanks...i'm interested too.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:34:34 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5907 Lines: 53 --0-1081371940-1143045260=:35511 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks for asking those questions tobi. i'm more interested in the multimedia aspect of all this. especially the diy. can't afford the $700 for photoshop soultions. i'd be interested to know. tobi x wrote: Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian! This is tobi [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to! ; ) Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference - that its the only large distro that functions with open development on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers] to revise and adapt. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming. Is Debian good for multimedia work? My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film editing. I want to learn Python, and how to make a website. So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things? Also, Adrian said: "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many." What is RPM based? And what exactly is GNU? If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]? I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are screwed and I don't know how to fix it! Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated! tobi --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments._______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1081371940-1143045260=:35511 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks for asking those questions tobi. i'm more interested in the multimedia aspect of all this. especially the diy. can't afford the $700 for photoshop soultions. i'd be interested to know.

tobi x <grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!  This is tobi [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to!   ; )

Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on

http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference

- that its the only large distro that functions with open development on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers] to revise and adapt.  Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming.

Is Debian good for multimedia work?

My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film editing.  I want to learn Python, and how to make a website.

So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things?

Also,
Adrian said:
    "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many."

What is RPM based?  And what exactly is GNU?

If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]?

I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are screwed and I don't know how to fix it!

Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated!

tobi
Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments._______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-1081371940-1143045260=:35511-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Mar 22 08:35:27 2006 Received: from web80402.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.57]:30550) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM6Is-0003mk-BP for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:35:26 -0800 Received: (qmail 39760 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 16:35:11 -0000 Message-ID: <20060322163511.39758.qmail@web80402.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80402.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:35:11 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:35:11 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: David Reber , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.57 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2116789677-1143045311=:37660" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:35:27 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3065 Lines: 46 --0-2116789677-1143045311=:37660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit that would be great to. David Reber wrote: that would be awesome ~David On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe wrote: There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation. Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it, maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be? There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ... (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.) --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-2116789677-1143045311=:37660 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit that would be great to.

David Reber <morpheus2485@gmail.com> wrote:
that would be awesome
~David

On 3/21/06, Adrien Lamothe <alamozzz@yahoo.com> wrote:
There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python presentation.
Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it,
maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be?
There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ...
(We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.)


Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



_______________________________________________
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sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-2116789677-1143045311=:37660-- From jim@well.com Wed Mar 22 09:31:34 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:39080) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM7BD-0004Gi-8U for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:31:34 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-1-182.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.1.182]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MHVM1a010518; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:31:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060321145432.13560.qmail@web31414.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:33:59 -0800 To: Adrien Lamothe X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1350/Wed Mar 22 02:12:47 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: SFLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:31:35 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 847 Lines: 27 I plied marilyn with rides to and from the train station and free dinner. I tried to get her drunk, but i ended up drinking most of the wine. same offer to dierdre (and rick, if he comes too). On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:54 AM, Adrien Lamothe wrote: > There was constant reference to Ruby at last night's Python > presentation. > Hmm.... maybe we could get a Ruby expert to come and speak about it, > maybe even about Ruby on Rails? I wonder who that expert could be? > There is someone I know, who is associated with the Linuxmafia site ... > (We'll probably have to ply her with Diet Coca-Cola as inducement.) > > > > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying > attachments._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim@well.com Wed Mar 22 09:32:41 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:39211) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM7CE-0004IK-QX for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:32:40 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-1-182.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.1.182]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MHWUlB011054 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:32:30 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: SFLUG Mailing List Message-Id: <348D0ECC-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 09:35:07 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1350/Wed Mar 22 02:12:47 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-12--614533114 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: ANNOUNCE: Leading Itanium Processor Architects to Keynote Gelato Conference X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 17:32:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3210 Lines: 117 --Apple-Mail-12--614533114 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed who's interested? Begin forwarded message: > From: "Nan Holda" > Date: March 21, 2006 9:11:06 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: ANNOUNCE: Leading Itanium Processor Architects to Keynote > Gelato Conference > > Please forward to your group if you think they'd be interested. > > The Gelato Federation announces the keynote speakers for the Gelato > ICE: Itanium Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 in San > Jose, California, USA. Jerry Huck (HP), James Reinders (Intel > Corporation), Don Soltis (Intel Corporation), and William Worley > (Secure64 and Itanium Solutions Alliance) are scheduled to present on > the past, present, and future developments of the Intel Itanium > architecture. Speaker biographies are available at > http://www.gelato.org/meeting/#keynote > > Gelato ICE will address current high-performance computing issues and > collaborative solutions specific to Linux on the Intel Itanium-based > platforms, and will feature 50+ presentations and the exchange of > information in formal and informal settings. An Early Bird discount is > in effect until March 25, 2006. Program and registration details are > available at http://www.gelato.org/meeting > > Hope to see you in San Jose! > Nan > > Nan Holda > GELATO Federation > Advancing Linux Itanium > tel: 217.265.0947 > fax: 217.333.5579 > www.gelato.org > --Apple-Mail-12--614533114 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII who's interested? Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: "Nan Holda" < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 21, 2006 9:11:06 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: ANNOUNCE: Leading Itanium Processor Architects to Keynote Gelato Conference Please forward to your group if you think they'd be interested. The Gelato Federation announces the keynote speakers for the Gelato ICE: Itanium Conference & Expo to be held on April 23-26, 2006 in San Jose, California, USA. Jerry Huck (HP), James Reinders (Intel Corporation), Don Soltis (Intel Corporation), and William Worley (Secure64 and Itanium Solutions Alliance) are scheduled to present on the past, present, and future developments of the Intel Itanium architecture. Speaker biographies are available at http://www.gelato.org/meeting/#keynote Gelato ICE will address current high-performance computing issues and collaborative solutions specific to Linux on the Intel Itanium-based platforms, and will feature 50+ presentations and the exchange of information in formal and informal settings. An Early Bird discount is in effect until March 25, 2006. Program and registration details are available at http://www.gelato.org/meeting Hope to see you in San Jose! Nan Nan Holda GELATO Federation Advancing Linux Itanium tel: 217.265.0947 fax: 217.333.5579 www.gelato.org --Apple-Mail-12--614533114-- From jim@well.com Wed Mar 22 10:11:34 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:43707) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM7nr-0004fU-KE for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:11:33 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-1-182.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.1.182]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2MIBJDp029803; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:11:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:13:57 -0800 To: tobi x X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1350/Wed Mar 22 02:12:47 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-14--612203398 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] questions and thanks X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:11:34 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11325 Lines: 403 --Apple-Mail-14--612203398 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Debian has a really strong community and a fair amount of online docs and even books (The Debian System, Concepts and Techniques by Martin Krafft, NoStarch Press, available in Stacey's bookstore). Join the extremely active mailing lists via http://www.debian.org/ There's a pretty big Debian user base in the SF bay area. you shoulda come to Marilyn's Python talk at the javacat last Monday--it was really informative and tons of fun. Linux is good and getting better at multimedia work. Therefore so is Debian, which (I'm guessing, but educatedly) is probably as good as any other distro and (still guessing similarly) better than most others (e.g. RedHat is corporate-focused, Gentoo is DIY focused, SUSE is, in my book, on the ropes or sidelines for now...). RPM =3D=3D RedHat Package Manager, a way to install, update, upgrade, delete, and otherwise tweak software on your system. The Debian way is apt. The two are separate ways to view pretty much the same universe. GNU * what's the 'U' for? "Unix" * what's the 'N' for? "Not" * what's the 'G' for? GNU --------------------------* what's the 'U' for? "Unix" --------------------------* what's the 'N' for? "Not" --------------------------* what's the 'G' for? GNU -----------------------------------------------------* etc......... The GNU name is for a community inspired by Richard Stallman. Their main evidence in the Linux world is in the toolkit that comes with all Linux kernels (properly "Linux" refers only to the kernel, a single massive file that is loaded as the basis of the operating system). The GNU toolkit includes the command-line shells, such programs as ls, grep, vi (YAY!), and so on (all the programs you learn about when you first study Unix). The GNU toolkit also comes on freeBSD distributions and on the Macintosh OSX products (though Apple's engineers have tweaked the GNU toolkit behaviors annoyingly). Best way to try out Linux is to get a "live" CD. Best "live" CD distros are Ubuntu and Knoppix. That you have a laptop reduces the chances that any "live" CD will work, but you've still got a good chance. You can get such from me if you like at my cost (something like $1.50 per CD, covers shipping plus or minus a dime). I get them from SpiderTools.com, though I've bought enough that I get a pretty good discount, and I buy a bunch at a time, which spreads shipping costs per CD out low. I think if you can wait, cheaper to get 'em from me than from Spidertools direct. My interest is in promoting *nix OS (and the GNU toolkit), so I'm all for whatever makes you happy in your search. If you get some distro and try to install it, there is very little chance you'll get wedged (screwed up with no way out). There's a fair chance that you won't get things to work right at first, but hey! you did say you want to learn, and getting in too deep is the best, fastest way to learn (and learning this stuff is a big, big job that takes lots of time--people who like it, love it). Gosh, bladefknbla! holy moly look at the time. I'm sure some of the above is wrong and hope that the other sf-lug folks will correct me. jim On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:24 AM, tobi x wrote: > Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!=A0 This is tobi [t.rex], = by=20 > the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to! =A0 ; ) > > Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I=20= > really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on > > http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference > > - that its the only large distro that functions with open development=20= > on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of=20 > programmers] to revise and adapt.=A0 Please correct me if I'm wrong=20 > about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I=20= > support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open=20 > collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible=20= > programming. > > Is Debian good for multimedia work? > > My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for=20= > graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film=20 > editing.! =A0 I want to learn Python, and how to make a website. > > So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages -=20= > can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit=20 > these things? > > Also, > Adrian said: > =A0=A0=A0 "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many." > > What is RPM based?=A0 And what exactly is GNU? > > If I install a ve! rsion of Linux on my computer just to see what it=20= > is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state=20= > if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]? > > I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still=20= > have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I=20= > don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are=20= > screwed and I don't know how to fix it! > > Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these=20 > questions would be greatly appreciated! > > tobi > > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying=20 > attachments._______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-14--612203398 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 Debian has a really strong community and a fair=20 amount of online docs and even books=20 (The Debian System, Concepts and Techniques=20 by Martin Krafft, NoStarch Press, available in=20 Stacey's bookstore).=20 Join the extremely active mailing lists via=20 http://www.debian.org/=20 There's a pretty big Debian user base in the=20 SF bay area.=20 you shoulda come to Marilyn's Python talk at the=20 javacat last Monday--it was really informative and=20 tons of fun.=20 Linux is good and getting better at multimedia work.=20 Therefore so is Debian, which (I'm guessing, but=20 educatedly) is probably as good as any other=20 distro and (still guessing similarly) better than=20 most others (e.g. RedHat is corporate-focused,=20 Gentoo is DIY focused, SUSE is, in my book, on=20 the ropes or sidelines for now...).=20 RPM =3D=3D RedHat Package Manager, a way to=20 install, update, upgrade, delete, and otherwise=20 tweak software on your system. The Debian way=20 is apt. The two are separate ways to view pretty=20 much the same universe.=20 GNU=20 * what's the 'U' for? "Unix"=20 * what's the 'N' for? "Not"=20 * what's the 'G' for? GNU --------------------------* what's the 'U' for? "Unix"=20 --------------------------* what's the 'N' for? "Not"=20 --------------------------* what's the 'G' for? GNU=20 -----------------------------------------------------* etc.........=20 The GNU name is for a community inspired by=20 Richard Stallman. Their main evidence in the=20 Linux world is in the toolkit that comes with all=20 Linux kernels (properly "Linux" refers only to=20 the kernel, a single massive file that is loaded=20 as the basis of the operating system). The=20 GNU toolkit includes the command-line shells,=20 such programs as ls, grep, vi (YAY!), and so on=20 (all the programs you learn about when you=20 first study Unix). The GNU toolkit also comes=20 on freeBSD distributions and on the Macintosh=20 OSX products (though Apple's engineers have=20 tweaked the GNU toolkit behaviors annoyingly).=20 Best way to try out Linux is to get a "live" CD.=20 Best "live" CD distros are Ubuntu and Knoppix.=20 That you have a laptop reduces the chances=20 that any "live" CD will work, but you've still got=20 a good chance. You can get such from me if=20 you like at my cost (something like $1.50 per=20 CD, covers shipping plus or minus a dime). I=20 get them from SpiderTools.com, though I've=20 bought enough that I get a pretty good discount,=20 and I buy a bunch at a time, which spreads=20 shipping costs per CD out low. I think if you=20 can wait, cheaper to get 'em from me than=20 from Spidertools direct. My interest is in=20 promoting *nix OS (and the GNU toolkit), so=20 I'm all for whatever makes you happy in your=20 search.=20 If you get some distro and try to install it, there=20 is very little chance you'll get wedged (screwed=20 up with no way out). There's a fair chance that=20 you won't get things to work right at first, but=20 hey! you did say you want to learn, and getting=20 in too deep is the best, fastest way to learn=20 (and learning this stuff is a big, big job that=20 takes lots of time--people who like it, love it).=20 Gosh, bladefknbla! holy moly look at the time.=20 I'm sure some of the above is wrong and hope=20 that the other sf-lug folks will correct me.=20 jim=20 On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:24 AM, tobi x wrote: Thanks for the tips and the welcome, Adrian!=A0 This is tobi [t.rex], by the way, [not Kevin] who wrote the message you replied to! =A0 ; ) Since I got your email, I've been looking up SuSe and Debian, and I really like the ideology behind Debian that I found on http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-basic_defs.en.html#s-difference - that its the only large distro that functions with open development on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of programmers] to revise and adapt.=A0 Please correct me if I'm wrong about this, but this would be a great factor in which Linux system I support... I am a big advocate of the DIY non-corporate, open collectivity in the evolution of Linux as all-inclusive and accessible programming. Is Debian good for multimedia work? My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film editing.! =A0 I want to learn Python, and how to make a website. So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit these things? Also, Adrian said: =A0=A0=A0 "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many." What is RPM based?=A0 And what exactly is GNU? If I install a ve! rsion of Linux on my computer just to see what it is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]? I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, are screwed and I don't know how to fix it! Replies or guidance to good links/resources for any of these questions would be greatly appreciated! tobi Yahoo! Mail 0000,0000,EEEEUse Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments._______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug = --Apple-Mail-14--612203398-- From lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net Wed Mar 22 10:36:06 2006 Received: from web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.228]:44485) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM8Be-0004oi-Q4 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:36:05 -0800 Received: (qmail 85164 invoked by uid 60001); 22 Mar 2006 18:14:15 -0000 Message-ID: <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.105.137] by web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:14:15 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:14:15 -0800 (PST) From: Lx Rudis To: jim stockford , Adrien Lamothe In-Reply-To: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.191.85.228 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: SFLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 18:36:07 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 780 Lines: 36 Fearless Leader wrote: > I tried to get > her drunk, but i ended up drinking most > of the wine. > same offer to dierdre (and rick, if he > comes too). now let me get this straight, jim. you're proposing to... wait, no, let's just pass on it. i must've read the wrong thing into your post. but just in case: dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here in the wilds of northwest san francisco. we walk upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them , eat with forks and everything. sure, we're a bit more rough-hewn than your typical South Bay computer enthusiast, but once you get past the coarse exterior, you get to see our...err. umn. well, let me move right along here. nevermind. carry on, jim. sorry for the interruption... ;D x From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Mar 22 11:04:48 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FM8dU-0005DW-3H by authid for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:04:48 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:04:47 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:04:49 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 705 Lines: 18 Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net): > dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here > in the wilds of northwest san francisco. we walk > upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them , > eat with forks and everything. Lx Rudis, thanks. I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to Deirdre[1] last night. I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework. In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group: It's easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page, http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php [1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird". From jim@well.com Wed Mar 22 20:59:46 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:37254) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMHvC-0000jn-Pe ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:59:45 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-22-151.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.22.151]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2N4xc0U005020; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:59:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <0BF8827F-B9CA-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060322181415.85162.qmail@web82308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060322190446.GW17596@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <3283C4BE-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:02:15 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1351/Wed Mar 22 13:22:04 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:59:47 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1483 Lines: 45 the thing about "speaking" at sf-lug is its informality. I believe marilyn had a novel and fun time because of our non-format, kind of like hunkering together around a campfire (never mind thinking that one out, LX). For us, seems to me, having marilyn there provided us a focus that was extra gratifying (that one, too, LX). Let's do more such. come on down, Dierdre, get a free dinner and ride and let's talk Ruby and also Rails (is it true there's other languages on Rails? Maybe David Morpheus' programming language will ride at last). On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net): > >> dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here >> in the wilds of northwest san francisco. we walk >> upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them , >> eat with forks and everything. > > Lx Rudis, thanks. I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to > Deirdre[1] > last night. I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good > speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework. > > In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group: It's > easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page, > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php > > [1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird". > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim@well.com Wed Mar 22 21:05:21 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:37608) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMI0c-0000yt-31 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:05:20 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-22-151.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.22.151]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2N55EMY006896 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:05:14 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: SFLUG Mailing List From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:07:52 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1351/Wed Mar 22 13:22:04 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:05:21 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 734 Lines: 22 I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to keep one for myself. I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD price plus 1/3 shipping). Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms: Linux, Mac OSX, and one other. I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose to download the program, I believe you can get your copies to run on the other platform. So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know. jim@well.com PS you'll also spare yourself the wait and the mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey. From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Mar 22 22:10:59 2006 Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.61]:31594) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMJ28-0001PX-9H for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:10:59 -0800 Received: (qmail 15740 invoked by uid 60001); 23 Mar 2006 06:10:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.143.70.122] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:10:46 PST Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:10:46 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Shannon Silverman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.61 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:11:00 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 673 Lines: 30 Hi Shannon, I'm a member of SF-WOW. I also belong to the San Francisco Linux User's Group. Belonging to and Group is are rather nebulous terms with this collection of individuals. But, I'm sure there is someone here whom might be able to give your friend some direction. So, I thought i'd through it there. Vince --- Shannon Silverman wrote: > Hi Wowsers! > > My friend needs to learn Python and Ruby scripting > languages ASAP. > Does anyone have any suggestions for resources - > preferably free - to > help get this started? Please reply to me and I'll > be happy to post a > compilation back to the list. > > Thanks! > -Shannon > > > > From marilyn@deliberate.com Wed Mar 22 22:25:40 2006 Received: from adsl-66-218-47-177.dslextreme.com ([66.218.47.177]:56657 helo=deliberate.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMJGK-0001Sf-9E ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:25:39 -0800 Received: from marilyn (helo=localhost) by deliberate.com with local-esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1FMJGB-0001Ge-NF; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:25:27 -0800 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: Marilyn Davis X-X-Sender: marilyn@localhost.localdomain To: jim stockford In-Reply-To: <3283C4BE-BA2A-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of marilyn@deliberate.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.47.177 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: marilyn@deliberate.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:25:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1969 Lines: 65 On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, jim stockford wrote: > > the thing about "speaking" at sf-lug is its > informality. I believe marilyn had a novel and > fun time because of our non-format, kind of > like hunkering together around a campfire > (never mind thinking that one out, LX). > For us, seems to me, having marilyn there > provided us a focus that was extra gratifying > (that one, too, LX). > Let's do more such. come on down, Dierdre, > get a free dinner and ride and let's talk Ruby > and also Rails (is it true there's other > languages on Rails? Maybe David Morpheus' Dierdre, it was really fun. A very attentive and appreciative audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner. I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go up too. Marilyn > programming language will ride at last). > > > > On Mar 22, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > > > Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net): > > > >> dierdre and rick - we're really nice people out here > >> in the wilds of northwest san francisco. we walk > >> upright, wear clean clothes when we can find them , > >> eat with forks and everything. > > > > Lx Rudis, thanks. I'd already forwarded Adrien's proposal to > > Deirdre[1] > > last night. I hope she does come speak, because she's quite a good > > speaker on ruby and, in particular, the Ruby on Rails Web framework. > > > > In any event, there _is_ a San Francisco Ruby Meetup Group: It's > > easiest to find using Rich Morin's "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page, > > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php > > > > [1] Easiest way to remember the spelling is that it's like in "weird". > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > sf-lug mailing list > > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -- From johnlowry@gmail.com Wed Mar 22 22:36:08 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.201]:36584) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMJQT-0001VU-Mx for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:36:08 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n15so252298nfc for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.42.2 with SMTP id p2mr442950nfp; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.245.10 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610603222235w606e76dam5518ba427aa45cb4@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:35:55 -0800 From: "John Lowry" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.201 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.201 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_817_2013491.1143095755317" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Watch your laptops! X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:36:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 794 Lines: 27 ------=_Part_817_2013491.1143095755317 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://www.sfbg.com/40/25/news_ijacked.html One of those stolen laptops happened at Java Cat, so watch your stuff and b= e aware of your surroundings. -- John Lowry ------=_Part_817_2013491.1143095755317 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline http://www.sfbg.com= /40/25/news_ijacked.html

One of those stolen laptops happened at= Java Cat, so watch your stuff and be aware of your surroundings.

--
John Lowry

------=_Part_817_2013491.1143095755317-- From deirdre@deirdre.net Wed Mar 22 22:46:41 2006 Received: from emperor.deirdre.org ([198.144.195.190]:56277 helo=freesia.deirdre.org) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMJah-0001ZF-3D for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:46:40 -0800 Received: from [10.0.1.3] (airport.deirdre.org [198.144.195.188]) by freesia.deirdre.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k2N6xwxL006196 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:59:58 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net> From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 22:46:29 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Received-SPF: neutral (linuxmafia.com: 198.144.195.190 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of deirdre@deirdre.net) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.144.195.190 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: deirdre@deirdre.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:46:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 480 Lines: 18 On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Marilyn Davis wrote: > Dierdre, it was really fun. A very attentive and appreciative > audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner. > > I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go > up too. After being forwarded info by the spousal unit, I've joined the list and would be happy to talk about Rails. :) Oh, yeah, and that Ruby thing too. -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 06:54:45 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:39242) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMRCz-0004z2-KF for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:54:45 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-200-47.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.200.47]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2NEsb0o002655; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:54:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 06:57:14 -0800 To: vincent polite X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1353/Thu Mar 23 02:23:33 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , Shannon Silverman Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 14:54:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1140 Lines: 47 python.org and baypiggies.net for python, rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control info and discussion. other bay area-ish active groups with busy and informative email discussions: svlug.org silicon valley linux user group lugod.org davis linux user group penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:10 PM, vincent polite wrote: > Hi Shannon, > I'm a member of SF-WOW. I also belong to the San > Francisco Linux User's Group. Belonging to and Group > is are rather nebulous terms with this collection of > individuals. But, I'm sure there is someone here whom > might be able to give your friend some direction. So, > I thought i'd through it there. > > Vince > > --- Shannon Silverman wrote: > >> Hi Wowsers! >> >> My friend needs to learn Python and Ruby scripting >> languages ASAP. >> Does anyone have any suggestions for resources - >> preferably free - to >> help get this started? Please reply to me and I'll >> be happy to post a >> compilation back to the list. >> >> Thanks! >> -Shannon >> >> >> >> > From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 07:00:51 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:39750) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMRIt-00050y-V6 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:00:50 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-200-47.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.200.47]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2NF0gVY004975; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:00:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net> References: <6A01A742-B075-4AFF-849B-2AC9098F54F6@deirdre.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <2A7C4DCA-BA7E-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:03:20 -0800 To: Deirdre Saoirse Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1353/Thu Mar 23 02:23:33 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Python and Ruby (and morpheus) X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:00:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1197 Lines: 44 our meetings at the javacat are * First Sunday of the month from 11 AM till 1 PM * Third Monday of the month from 6 PM till 8 PM We're hoping to have a meeting once a month at SFSU (19th at Holloway, at the top of hiway 280) probably on some Thursday evening from 6:30 to 9:00 or so. That's likely to be in a classroom and I've promised to bring a machine to play with. The offer of dinner, booze, rides stands. Javacat is a sure thing; SFSU meetings have yet to be nailed down. jim On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:46 PM, Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: > On Mar 22, 2006, at 10:25 PM, Marilyn Davis wrote: > >> Dierdre, it was really fun. A very attentive and appreciative >> audience, cool atmosphere, and superb dinner. >> >> I'd be interested in learning a splash about Ruby and would try to go >> up too. > > After being forwarded info by the spousal unit, I've joined the list > and would be happy to talk about Rails. :) > > Oh, yeah, and that Ruby thing too. > > -- > _Deirdre http://deirdre.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 07:19:56 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41518) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMRbM-0005IR-Gs for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:19:55 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-200-47.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.200.47]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2NFJlbb012913 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:19:48 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 07:22:26 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1353/Thu Mar 23 02:23:33 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-17--536094521 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] tech support job possibility X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:19:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1871 Lines: 93 --Apple-Mail-17--536094521 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed tech support job possibility contact jwestien@xmission.com Begin forwarded message: > From: John Westien > Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: PGP > > Hi Jim, > > I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website. > > I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We > are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and > networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The > location is based in Palo Alto. > > Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a > position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address. > > Thanks, > > John > > > --Apple-Mail-17--536094521 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII tech support job possibility contact jwestien@xmission.com Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: John Westien < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 13, 2006 9:05:33 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: PGP Hi Jim, I found your email address on the sf-lug.org website. I work for PGP (www.pgp.com) and manage a Technical Support group. We are looking for a Support person who has a good grasp of Linux and networking. An interest in cryptography is always helpful as well. The location is based in Palo Alto. Please let me know if any of your members may be looking for a position. If so, please have them contact me at this email address. Thanks, John --Apple-Mail-17--536094521-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Mar 23 11:43:01 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMVi0-00070C-1g by authid ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:43:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 11:42:59 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: rdm@cfcl.com, dmarti@zgp.org Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:43:02 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2684 Lines: 60 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > python.org and baypiggies.net for python, > rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby > > http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control > info and discussion. > > other bay area-ish active groups with busy and > informative email discussions: > svlug.org silicon valley linux user group > lugod.org davis linux user group > penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group Some guy I shave tracks the comings and goings (and calendar events) of most of those at http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ ("BALE"). I'm considering adding the SF PHP Meetup Group, SF Ruby Meetup Group, San Jose PHP Meetup Group, and Bay Area Squackers (San Jose -- group for fans of Squeak, an update of Smalltalk). Those are referenced on Rich Morin's extremely useful "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page: http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php Bay Area Squackers has no Web presence other than this static entry on http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1288: Squackers - first-wednesdays Bay Area Squeak meeting, email Craig [mailto link] for directions. The problem with my adding an ongoing entry for a group like that is: How do I know the group hasn't folded (unless I happen to attend regularly)? As a general rule, BALE lists as recurring events only groups whose continued existence can be confirmed via the Web, for that reason. As to the others, I'm pretty down on Meetup Groups, based on my less-than-thrilling experience with that Web 2.0 company concerning Linux Journal Meetups: To participate (including finding out where the events physically meet), you need to sign up for the Meetup "service", which means they then spam you a _lot_ with various e-mail nags and upsell efforts. To _fully_ participate, you have to pay their annual "membership" fee. I get tired of being hustled, marketed, and spammed to death by people whose business model involves selling _me_ (my eyeball time) to their real customers and trying to cajole me into buying "premium services" that I have no interest in. Therefore, I am presently inclined to ignore (on BALE) all groups for which participation requires "membership" in Meetup or similar hassle-filled commercial Web 2.0 services.[1] However, I am definitely considering a cross-link to Rich Morin's page. [1] See also: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html By way of comparison, some Bay Area groups like SJSU Linux User Group (http://sjsulug.engr.sjsu.edu/) rely on Google Groups or Yahoo Groups in lieu of running their own mailing lists -- but you can at least find out where/when they _meet_ without having to sign up with those commercial services. From nbs@sonic.net Thu Mar 23 12:43:50 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:42648) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMWep-0007RA-C2 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:49 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2NKhWQP002041 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:32 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:FonxsPIck/Bt7hnfGJ9HQw35XlnOACPL@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k2NKhW5I025206 for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:32 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1/Submit) id k2NKhWOd025205 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:32 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:32 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: SFLUG Mailing List Message-ID: <20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: SFLUG Mailing List References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:43:51 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1331 Lines: 42 On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 09:07:52PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: > > I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to > keep one for myself. > I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD > price plus 1/3 shipping). Hi Jim! ;^) > > Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms: > Linux, Mac OSX, and one other. > I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they > will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX > and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose > to download the program, I believe you can get > your copies to run on the other platform. Hrm, the CD should contain subfolders with: * an installer for Windows, * an installer for Mac OS X, * RPM packages for various Red Hat and Fedora CORE Linux releases, * source code * documentation > So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and > want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save > a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know. > jim@well.com > PS you'll also spare yourself the wait and the > mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey. Thx Jim! What brought this on, anyhow!? ;^) -- -bill! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, bill@newbreedsoftware.com CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 18:39:41 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:41848) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMcDC-0001Sm-0e for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:39:40 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-170-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.170.71]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2O2dVrV010753; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:39:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060323173751.92957.qmail@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060323173751.92957.qmail@web82313.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:42:08 -0800 To: Lx Rudis X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1354/Thu Mar 23 09:49:54 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:39:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1261 Lines: 45 you're the first one to ask (I don't know why Vince didn't just ask me for the other one rather than where he can buy his copy). I got one set aside for you LX. On Mar 23, 2006, at 9:37 AM, Lx Rudis wrote: > i'll buy one if you still have one to sell. > > --- jim stockford wrote: > >> >> I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to >> keep one for myself. >> I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost >> (CD >> price plus 1/3 shipping). >> >> Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms: >> Linux, Mac OSX, and one other. >> I believe in the case of the CDs I have that >> they >> will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX >> and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose >> to download the program, I believe you can get >> your copies to run on the other platform. >> >> So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and >> want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save >> a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know. >> jim@well.com >> PS you'll also spare yourself the wait and the >> mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sf-lug mailing list >> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com >> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug >> > From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 18:44:08 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:42116) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMcHS-0001UF-Pz ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:44:07 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-170-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.170.71]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2O2hm67012999; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:43:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:46:25 -0800 To: Rick Moen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1354/Thu Mar 23 09:49:54 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" , rdm@cfcl.com, dmarti@zgp.org Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:44:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3030 Lines: 74 > ...Some guy I shave... must be a handsome devil. On Mar 23, 2006, at 11:42 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > >> python.org and baypiggies.net for python, >> rubyonrails.org and http://ruby.meetup.com/6/ for ruby >> >> http://www.sf-lug.org for general, if a little out of control >> info and discussion. >> >> other bay area-ish active groups with busy and >> informative email discussions: >> svlug.org silicon valley linux user group >> lugod.org davis linux user group >> penlug.org sfbay peninsula linux user group > > Some guy I shave tracks the comings and goings (and calendar events) of > most of those at http://linuxmafia.com/bale/ ("BALE"). > > I'm considering adding the SF PHP Meetup Group, SF Ruby Meetup Group, > San Jose PHP Meetup Group, and Bay Area Squackers (San Jose -- group > for > fans of Squeak, an update of Smalltalk). Those are referenced on Rich > Morin's extremely useful "SF Bay Area Scripting Groups" page: > http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/bass/groups.php > > Bay Area Squackers has no Web presence other than this static entry on > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1288: > > Squackers - first-wednesdays Bay Area Squeak meeting, email Craig > [mailto link] for directions. > > The problem with my adding an ongoing entry for a group like that is: > How do I know the group hasn't folded (unless I happen to attend > regularly)? As a general rule, BALE lists as recurring events only > groups whose continued existence can be confirmed via the Web, for that > reason. > > As to the others, I'm pretty down on Meetup Groups, based on my > less-than-thrilling experience with that Web 2.0 company concerning > Linux Journal Meetups: To participate (including finding out where the > events physically meet), you need to sign up for the Meetup "service", > which means they then spam you a _lot_ with various e-mail nags and > upsell efforts. To _fully_ participate, you have to pay their annual > "membership" fee. I get tired of being hustled, marketed, and spammed > to death by people whose business model involves selling _me_ (my > eyeball time) to their real customers and trying to cajole me into > buying "premium services" that I have no interest in. > > Therefore, I am presently inclined to ignore (on BALE) all groups for > which participation requires "membership" in Meetup or similar > hassle-filled commercial Web 2.0 services.[1] However, I am definitely > considering a cross-link to Rich Morin's page. > > [1] See also: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/winolj.html > By way of comparison, some Bay Area groups like SJSU Linux User Group > (http://sjsulug.engr.sjsu.edu/) rely on Google Groups or Yahoo Groups > in lieu of running their own mailing lists -- but you can at least find > out where/when they _meet_ without having to sign up with those > commercial services. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim@well.com Thu Mar 23 18:58:01 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:43022) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMcUu-0001Xp-Pm for ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:58:00 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-170-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.170.71]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2O2vqii017444; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:57:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net> References: <20060323204332.GF24184@sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <5AA20B86-BAE2-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 19:00:30 -0800 To: Bill Kendrick X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1354/Thu Mar 23 09:49:54 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: SFLUG Mailing List Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Tux Paint CD-ROMs are here X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 02:58:02 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2458 Lines: 79 hiya bill: I've gotta have some kind of paint program to work on our (very slow-to-develop) sf-lug web site. So i got yours! I'll be loading and using in a day or so (I got employment these days, so time is tight) and am pretty excited about trying it out. I paid for extras, partly to support the development crew, partly to have the CDs available for the sf-lug bunch--available now (I might even drive it over to whomever buys one), and with cheaper shipping! These are the untouched, exact CDs that CafePress sent to my (our) PO box. That they won't run on a particular platform is actually a matter of my refusing to share my property or do anything that in any way promotes a particular other platform (the binaries probably work fine). I may not be as particular as he who shaves, but I'm getting kind of piqued at surveys lately. jim On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:43 PM, Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Wed, Mar 22, 2006 at 09:07:52PM -0800, jim stockford wrote: >> >> I bought three Tux Paint CD-ROMs and want to >> keep one for myself. >> I'm willing to sell the other two for my cost (CD >> price plus 1/3 shipping). > > Hi Jim! ;^) > > >> >> Tux Paint CDs claim to work for three platforms: >> Linux, Mac OSX, and one other. >> I believe in the case of the CDs I have that they >> will not run on the other platform, only on Mac OSX >> and Linux. But if you buy Tux Paint CDs or choose >> to download the program, I believe you can get >> your copies to run on the other platform. > > Hrm, the CD should contain subfolders with: > > * an installer for Windows, > * an installer for Mac OS X, > * RPM packages for various Red Hat and Fedora CORE Linux releases, > * source code > * documentation > > >> So if you have a linux or Mac OSX machine and >> want to buy Tux Paint from me at my cost (and save >> a little shipping for y'se'f), lemme know. >> jim@well.com >> PS you'll also spare yourself the wait and the >> mildly obnoxious CafePress follow-up survey. > > Thx Jim! What brought this on, anyhow!? ;^) > > -- > -bill! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, > bill@newbreedsoftware.com CDROM, bumper sticker & > apparel > http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ > http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From rick@linuxmafia.com Thu Mar 23 20:07:04 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMdZc-0002DE-HU by authid ; Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:06:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:06:51 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: jim stockford Message-ID: <20060324040651.GE27469@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060323061047.15738.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> <503A17F1-BA7D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060323194259.GZ17596@linuxmafia.com> <63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <63186C3C-BAE0-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" , rdm@cfcl.com, dmarti@zgp.org Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 04:07:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 404 Lines: 15 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > >...Some guy I shave... > must be a handsome devil. Nah, he's a Scandinavian, and they're neither good-looking nor trustworthy. (At least, my Aunt Bjorg warned me never to trust them.) Take my word for that. -- Cheers, Rick Moen "vi is my shepherd; I shall not font." rick@linuxmafia.com -- Psalm 0.1 beta From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 24 12:41:57 2006 Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.61]:47599) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMt6Z-0000Hs-AT for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:41:56 -0800 Received: (qmail 39257 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Mar 2006 20:41:46 -0000 Message-ID: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:41:46 PST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:41:46 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.61 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_SHORT_LENGTH autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-555678541-1143232906=:28193" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:41:58 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 551 Lines: 13 --0-555678541-1143232906=:28193 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks --0-555678541-1143232906=:28193 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks
--0-555678541-1143232906=:28193-- From darose@darose.net Fri Mar 24 12:49:36 2006 Received: from ms-smtp-01-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com ([24.29.109.5]:38701 helo=ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMtDx-0000KG-1O for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:49:35 -0800 Received: from darsys6 (cpe-66-108-243-4.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.243.4]) by ms-smtp-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2OKlLGH001011 for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.1.0.2] by darsys6 with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FMtDo-0002LU-T3 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:24 -0500 Message-ID: <44245B54.105@darose.net> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:49:24 -0500 From: David Rosenstrauch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of darose@darose.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 24.29.109.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: darose@darose.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Getting quotes... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 20:49:36 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 213 Lines: 9 vincent polite wrote: > Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to > where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thanks newegg.com is a good place to look. DR From johnlowry@gmail.com Fri Mar 24 13:57:43 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.189]:61394) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMuHq-0000lP-QI for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:43 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x37so691270nfc for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.54.12 with SMTP id g12mr506943nfk; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.245.10 with HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:24 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <528b20610603241357j60813a12r408f1ce88d7195d2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 13:57:24 -0800 From: "John Lowry" To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" In-Reply-To: <44245B54.105@darose.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> <44245B54.105@darose.net> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of johnlowry@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.189 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.189 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: johnlowry@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4626_13751948.1143237444781" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Getting quotes... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 21:57:44 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1934 Lines: 57 ------=_Part_4626_13751948.1143237444781 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline www.pricewatch.com www.tigerdirect.com On 3/24/06, David Rosenstrauch wrote: > > vincent polite wrote: > > Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to > > where I can see what the going prices are for various components? Thank= s > > > newegg.com is a good place to look. > > DR > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -- John Lowry ------=_Part_4626_13751948.1143237444781 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline www.pricewatch.com
www.tigerdirect.com

On 3/24/06, David Rosenstrau= ch <darose@darose.net> wrote:<= /span>
vincent pol= ite wrote:
> Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go= to
> where I can see what the going prices are for various component= s? Thanks


newegg.com is a good= place to look.

DR

_______________________________________________
sf-lug= mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia= .com
http:= //linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



--
John Lowry
<= br> ------=_Part_4626_13751948.1143237444781-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Mar 24 18:08:26 2006 Received: from web80410.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.65]:20317) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMyCV-000316-Ov for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:08:25 -0800 Received: (qmail 28340 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2006 02:08:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:08:10 PST Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:08:10 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.65 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_04,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-866084432-1143252490=:19254" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 02:08:26 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 982 Lines: 13 --0-866084432-1143252490=:19254 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, I think I asked this before. But, I was to wiped out back then to follow through. Not that I'm totally better now. How difficult would it be, for me, to set up a linux mailserver, for about 25 accounts, probably less. It might also be used to unite, dare I say, Windows machines. Host a website? Don't laugh to hard --0-866084432-1143252490=:19254 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ok, I think I asked this before. But, I was to wiped out back then to follow through. Not that I'm totally better now. How difficult would it be, for me, to set up a linux mailserver, for about 25 accounts, probably less. It might also be used to unite, dare I say, Windows machines. Host a website? Don't laugh to hard
--0-866084432-1143252490=:19254-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Mar 24 19:11:23 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMzBT-0003Q7-04 by authid for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:11:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:11:22 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060325031122.GI17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060322142425.91172.qmail@web53602.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] questions and thanks X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:11:24 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7578 Lines: 159 Quoting tobi x (grrrebelsoul@yahoo.com): [Debian:] > - that its the only large distro that functions with open development > on the web for people [not just a smaller closed circle of > programmers] to revise and adapt. Please correct me if I'm wrong > about this.... It's not the only example of such a project, but is perhaps the largest and best known. (It also has a few operational problems, which would be a long discussion in itself.) I run Debian widely -- but strongly recommend against it for first-time Linux users. That's _also_ something of a long discussion. Like many long discussions I've done to death in the past, this is something I've partially FAQed: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro > Is Debian good for multimedia work? Well, mostly no, partially yes -- but less because it's Debian than because it's Linux. Let's talk about that. That's yet _another_ long discussion, but is the one I was intending to get around to. Today's the day. ;-> People mean a couple of different things when they say "multimedia work". One is playing, creating, and streaming out to other people the various popular AV formats, such as various types of AVIs/ASFs and Windows Media stuff with or without DRM, all kinds o' MPEG4 variants, Sorenson-encoded and other QuickTime stuff, RealMedia files/protocols, Flash, Shockwave, DivX stuff, .MP3s, Flac files, .ogg sound recordings, .wav and .au sound files, and so on. Other people tend to mean assembling, burning, and reading of movie DVDs, or running the computer equivalent of a sound and/or video recording / mixing / production studio. Some people mean graphic design work, such as what you might do in PhotoShop, Illustrator, InDesign, and so on. Some people mean mixtures of those things. > My computer is a Acer TravelMate 8104 notebook, and I am using it for > graphic design, music editing/recording, and occassional film > editing. I want to learn Python, and how to make a website. Which gives me a better idea what you're talking about. ;-> > So I am looking for a Linux that supports good multimedia packages - > can people recommend specific software and which Linux might suit > these things? First things first: I have a modest "AV" category in my knowledgebase that might be useful: http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps/AudioVideo Second, about particular obstacles for Linux. In a nutshell: o a lot of really nasty software patents, with big money behind them o Hollywood, the RIAA, and the DMCA o Sleazy, pushy, control-freak sofware companies pushing secret, proprietary data and network formats and DRM A lot of key multimedia technology is severely tied up in unexpired software patents. For example, MPEG4 is patent-encumbered, along with almost all other digital video formats. The very popular Sorenson video codec is patent-covered, and licensed exclusively to Apple Computer (which in turn permits it to be implemented only in its QuickTime software). Colour separation techniques for digital prepress production is heavily patent-covered. Even the MP3 music format is patented. The latter is the key reason why The GIMP is not a suitable tool for prepress work, making PhotoShop or InDesign essential if you're in that industry: Adobe either owns the patents itself, or is willing to pay royalties on the copy you buy and use. (Heck, it's just a bunch of money added to the purchase price. What do they care?) It's not that The GIMP's programmers don't know perfectly well how to write the code to do colour separations: It's that, if they did, they'd get sued. Hollywood and the music industry are, famously, utterly paranoid about losing control over their product when it's in digital form, so they've used lobbying power to cram down our throats some ruthless and rather psychotic Federal copyright legislation, called the Digital Milennium Copyright Act -- which among other things makes certain sorts of copryight violation a _criminal_ act for the first time (it's always just been a civil tort) and makes it illegal to develop, test, or even promulgate information about how to defeat a "device that controls access" to copyrighted content. The Linux programmer community knows perfectly well how to play Hollywood's movie DVDs on Linux, for example -- and also the Apple iTunes Music Store's DRM-obscured "Fairplay" MP4/AAC music files. However, the software projects that do that live under constant legal threat. Then there are threats like the Real Networks company, which likewise threatens programmers that implement third-party support for the DRM-covered parts of their streaming protocols and formats. And so on. As a result, there is _some_ coverage of almost all digital AV data formats and network protocols. Because part of the whole point of Linux is to prefer open source and _especially_ code that may not be freely distributed (open source being a subset of freely-distributable), and because the control-freak companies cannot abide the loss of their central control that is inherent in open source, the code that provides those functions is usually _not_ included in Linux distributions proper. You often need to retrofit it, post-OS-installation, onto your machine, often pulling down packages from software repositories elsewhere in the world that have less psychotic legal regimes than ours. The Linux distributions that come pre-equipped with the broadest range of built-in support for those sort of AV -- therefore -- are ones sold in retail packages, with per-seat licensing of the contents. Why? Because the publisher has to pay patent royalties and obey licensing restrictions on some contents -- and the rights-holders in question wouldn't permit that code to be duplicated freely. One such Linux distribution is Xandros Desktop OS, from Canada. (It's a desktop variant of Debian.) Big-picture: The legal and industry environment is quite hostile to that sort of AV on Linux -- especially towards implementations done as open source. The more you cave in to those interests, the easier life is. (If you want that, stick to MS-Windows and Mac OS X, which are from companies that to differing degrees are in bed with those interests -- and are players, themselves.) The more you want open source and autonomy, the more hassle is involved. A lot can be done; some can't (lawfully). And there's work involved. > Also, Adrian said: "SuSE is rpm based, a turn-off for many." > > What is RPM based? And what exactly is GNU? Wow, those are two other big topics. > If I install a version of Linux on my computer just to see what it > is like, will it be difficult to return my system to its current > state if I decide not to use Linux [or try a different version]? I think this is, sort of, the wrong question -- because it assumes that you must install Linux in order to try it. You're presumably unaware of an entire huge subculture within Linux involving "live CD" distributions. These are ones you don't install (or rather, don't _have_ to install), but rather run them directly from a CD-ROM disk, after booting from that disk. The best known is Knoppix. There are many others. > I really want to try Linux, but I am a bit hesitant because I still > have a lot to learn about it - and about computers in general - and > I don't want to find myself in a position where my computer, and me, > are screwed and I don't know how to fix it! Download and try a few live CDs, then! See: http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Mar 24 19:51:48 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FMzoZ-0003ZB-D4 by authid for ; Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:47 -0800 Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 19:51:46 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060325020810.28338.qmail@web80410.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:51:48 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 956 Lines: 28 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > How difficult would it be, for me, to set up a linux mailserver, for > about 25 accounts, probably less. Depends on the Linux distribution. Basically, all general Linux distributions provide the software for that -- an SMTP server (that role being called "MTA" = mail transfer agent) and an IMAP or POP3 server (that role being called "MDA" = mail delivery agent). Some give you a generic configuration for those, and leave you to customise it yourself. Some, instead, ask you a series of questions and based on your answers write the configuration files for that software, on your behalf. Easiest way to find out is to try. > It might also be used to unite, dare I say, Windows machines. If you mean "be a file/print server for Windows machines", same answer. The package that does that is called Samba. > Host a website? Same answer. The usual software is the Apache HTTP daemon. From jim@well.com Sat Mar 25 08:27:07 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:49720) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNBbU-0008IT-Dz for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:27:06 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.148]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2PGQv0j015255 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:26:57 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <8D0E83BA-BC1C-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: SFLUG Mailing List From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:29:37 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Getting quotes... from Tom DiZoglio X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:27:07 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 295 Lines: 15 Hey, I like this place: http://www.centralcomputer.com/ Right next to moscone center is the San Frnacisco location. All over Bay Area too. I also like San Francisco Computers @ about 17th - 4300 Geary Blvd. not to good online - http://www.sf-computer.com/. ------------------------- t0md From jim@well.com Sat Mar 25 08:40:50 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:50404) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNBol-0008LM-60 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:40:49 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.148]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2PGeguT019354; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:40:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060324204146.39255.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <78EEE332-BC1E-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:43:22 -0800 To: vincent polite X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Getting quotes... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:40:50 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 737 Lines: 26 I like ActNet: in SF, on Judah at 27th, 415 661 9000 http://www.actnetonline.com/ At one point I researched prices: they were very slightly more expensive than Dell. The pluses include: * persons available to talk, think, face to face, they're knowledgeable and helpful. * very good repair shop * no shipping (other than waddling back and forth between their joint and yours) On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:41 PM, vincent polite wrote: > Ok, I'm ready to build myself a computer. Is there a site I can go to > where I can see what the going prices are for various components? > Thanks > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From jim@well.com Sat Mar 25 09:11:03 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:52319) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNCI0-0000EP-6G for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:11:02 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.148]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2PHAuGW000324 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:10:56 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 09:13:36 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-23--356624757 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] {tech} learning Python and Ruby X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:11:03 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1556 Lines: 75 --Apple-Mail-23--356624757 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: "Jason Dusek" Date: March 23, 2006 11:47:45 AM PST To: "vincent polite" Cc: "Shannon Silverman" , "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby this online book: http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/ is very helpful. i learned the language from it, to the point where i now use ruby wherever i used to use perl and sh. -- _jsn --Apple-Mail-23--356624757 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII 0000,0000,0000 From: "Jason Dusek" < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 23, 2006 11:47:45 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: "vincent polite" < 0000,0000,0000Cc: "Shannon Silverman" <, "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" < 0000,0000,0000Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (tech) learning Python and Ruby this online book: http://www.ruby-doc.org/docs/ProgrammingRuby/ is very helpful. i learned the language from it, to the point where i now use ruby wherever i used to use perl and sh. -- _jsn --Apple-Mail-23--356624757-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 10:20:51 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:32925) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNDNV-0000h7-2m for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:20:50 -0800 Received: (qmail 4915 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2006 18:20:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.143.70.122] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:20:20 PST Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:20:20 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:20:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1362 Lines: 53 Thanks Rick, What distro would you recommend? About how long would you estimate this would take? Mind if I keep asking you questions? --- Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting vincent polite > (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > > > How difficult would it be, for me, to set up a > linux mailserver, for > > about 25 accounts, probably less. > > Depends on the Linux distribution. > > Basically, all general Linux distributions provide > the software for > that -- an SMTP server (that role being called "MTA" > = mail transfer > agent) and an IMAP or POP3 server (that role being > called "MDA" = mail > delivery agent). Some give you a generic > configuration for those, and > leave you to customise it yourself. Some, instead, > ask you a series of > questions and based on your answers write the > configuration files for > that software, on your behalf. > > Easiest way to find out is to try. > > > It might also be used to unite, dare I say, > Windows machines. > > If you mean "be a file/print server for Windows > machines", same answer. > The package that does that is called Samba. > > > Host a website? > > Same answer. The usual software is the Apache HTTP > daemon. > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From jim@well.com Sat Mar 25 10:44:14 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:57754) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNDk8-0000m4-Th for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:44:14 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.148]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2PIi3cq001811 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:44:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:46:43 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] multimedia X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:44:15 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 926 Lines: 25 thanks, rick, for the info. I chip in: Linux Journal April 2006 issue includes an article titled Podcasting for the Penguin by Jon Watson ( http://www.jonwatson.ca/ ) Check out that link! In the article he mentions interviewing Richard Stallman (GNU founder and FOSS early visionary). RS urges use of Ogg Vorbis format files, which are free of license/patent/"psychosis" baggage: http://www.vorbis.com/ If Stallman is for it, it's high priority interesting (not to say knee-jerk adoptable). Having read rick's info/opinion/email-blog on multimedia (more thanks!) at the same time this article was my reading assignment in the family bathroom, the tho't occurs: promote the use of free-use technology; i hope the greater community creates a whole new technology set AND CONTENT that escapes the gravity of the existing we-want-your-money-at-any-sacrifice-of-other-values media biz suit sets and marketers. From jim@well.com Sat Mar 25 10:45:26 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:57821) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNDlL-0000nE-93 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:45:25 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-148.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.148]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.5/8.13.5) with ESMTP id k2PIjJ1i002220 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:45:19 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:47:58 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] newbie web site X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:45:26 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 32 Lines: 4 http://www.newlinuxuser.com/ From rick@linuxmafia.com Sat Mar 25 12:17:52 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNFCp-0001Zb-K4 by authid for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:17:51 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:17:50 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060325035146.GJ17596@linuxmafia.com> <20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060325182020.4913.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:17:52 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1702 Lines: 39 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Mind if I keep asking you questions? Nah, but, at some point, you really have to just stop dipping your toe and take a dive. It's ultimately the only real way to find out. > What distro would you recommend? About how long would > you estimate this would take? I've already posted my standard, generic answer to the "which distro" question: It's one of the mini-essays on the "Linux Tire-Kicking" portion of my personal rants page: http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro It recommends several _desktop_ Linux variants widely believed to be good for newcomers, plus referring you for more information to Karsten's Diestribution Guide, DistroWatch's Major Distributions page, and the Linux Distribution Chooser survey. Basic installation of any Linux distribution tends to take about 1/2 hour to an hour. (As I mentioned yesterday, there area also plenty of "live CD" distributions you can kick around without installing them at all.) Further configuring your installed Linux distribution to do particuar thins rather than remain in a generic state requires anywhere from minutes to a lifetime, depending on how much you're doing and how complex it is. ;-> One defensible answer to your question is "You should use whatever distribution you can get effective local help with, if necessary." But personally, I prefer "Just pick one. If you don't like it, pick another." -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 12:34:54 2006 Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.56]:41464) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNFTF-0001dl-5D for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:34:54 -0800 Received: (qmail 713 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2006 20:34:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.143.70.122] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:34:39 PST Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:34:39 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: Rick Moen , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.56 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Newbie asking a dumb question... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:34:55 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2126 Lines: 74 Yeah, and I always go for the kiddie pool. Of course, with my girth. I'd probably displace all the water...8} --- Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting vincent polite > (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > > > Mind if I keep asking you questions? > > Nah, but, at some point, you really have to just > stop dipping your toe > and take a dive. It's ultimately the only real way > to find out. > > > What distro would you recommend? About how long > would > > you estimate this would take? > > I've already posted my standard, generic answer to > the "which distro" > question: It's one of the mini-essays on the "Linux > Tire-Kicking" > portion of my personal rants page: > > http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#distro > > It recommends several _desktop_ Linux variants > widely believed to be > good for newcomers, plus referring you for more > information to Karsten's > Diestribution Guide, DistroWatch's Major > Distributions page, and the > Linux Distribution Chooser survey. > > Basic installation of any Linux distribution tends > to take about 1/2 > hour to an hour. (As I mentioned yesterday, there > area also plenty of > "live CD" distributions you can kick around without > installing them at > all.) Further configuring your installed Linux > distribution to do > particuar thins rather than remain in a generic > state requires anywhere > from minutes to a lifetime, depending on how much > you're doing and how > complex it is. ;-> > > One defensible answer to your question is "You > should use whatever > distribution you can get effective local help with, > if necessary." > But personally, I prefer "Just pick one. If you > don't like it, pick > another." > > -- > Cheers, I have yet to see any > problem, however complicated, > Rick Moen which, when you looked at > it in the right way, did > rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more > complicated. -- Poul Anderson > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Sat Mar 25 12:40:32 2006 Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.58]:37340) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNFYj-0001fq-RZ for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:40:31 -0800 Received: (qmail 55515 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Mar 2006 20:40:20 -0000 Message-ID: <20060325204020.55513.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.143.70.122] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:40:20 PST Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:40:20 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.58 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Further advetures into mucking up a new computer... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:40:33 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 308 Lines: 7 Well, I went into CompUSA, looking for a cordless phone, with an answering machine, and, at least two voicemail boxes. I found a rack of shit they were getting rid of. I bought a case, after rebates, is only $40. They also had 80gig hard drives, after rebates, is only $9.99. What will he think of next... From rick@linuxmafia.com Sat Mar 25 13:16:07 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNG7D-0001zo-4J by authid for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:16:07 -0800 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 13:16:06 -0800 From: Rick Moen To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060325211606.GA6729@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060325201750.GG27469@linuxmafia.com> <20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060325203439.711.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] CABAL is TONIGHT, West Menlo Park X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:16:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1469 Lines: 33 Quoting vincent polite (vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com): > Yeah, and I always go for the kiddie pool. Well, as it turns out, Ubuntu Linux is a pretty good kiddies pool, and I've just downloaded the latest beta of the next-release v. 6.06 "Dapper Drake" installation CDs for x86, AMD64, and PowerPC. And THIS EVENING, 4 pm to midnight, is CABAL's meeting/installfest in West Menlo Park. You could come, get in-person assistance, or just hang out. (And yes, there's food: Some people always bring stuff. Don't sweat that.) Now, there were two words of mildly ill omen in that passage: "beta": This is a release that isn't expected to have its rough edges removed until June ("v. 6.06" is parsed as 6th month of 21st Century, month 06), but getting access to the latest and greatest tends to involve risking a few bugs. Of course, my "few bugs" might be your Trail of Tears. Or not. "downloaded": Handing a newcomer to Linux a CD and saying "Go for it" tends to create "OK, what do I do now?" syndrome. This is why I warn newcomers, e.g., at http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/faq/index.php?page=kicking#cheaplinux, that they might want to suppress the impulse towards cheap-bastardtry and buy one of the retail boxed-set distributions that come with a reassuring printed installation manual embossed with "Don't Panic" and paid technical support. (Hmm, I just realised that that mini-essay talks about "making your own boot floppies". Time to update, I think.) From morpheus2485@gmail.com Sun Mar 26 16:41:21 2006 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.202]:24388) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNfnK-0003mw-KJ for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:41:20 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id m7so1280884nzf for ; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.60.15 with SMTP id n15mr908547pyk; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:41:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.18 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Mar 2006 16:41:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:41:06 +0000 From: "David Reber" To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of morpheus2485@gmail.com designates 64.233.162.202 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.162.202 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: morpheus2485@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6914_18807066.1143420066166" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:41:21 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2976 Lines: 71 ------=_Part_6914_18807066.1143420066166 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it: We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage ever= y day. They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed). Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens who would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle computer. So my idea is to bring the two togeather: have a space, and one or more linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week. The final ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness. I envisio= n it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with whatever project/problem they're experiencing. Sort of a slightly expanded install fest. The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the groun= d is space and leadership. I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I have nill resources in terms of space. can you help? ~david ------=_Part_6914_18807066.1143420066166 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my he= ad without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:

We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage every day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed).

Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens  who would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle computer. 

So my idea is to bring the two togeather:  have a space, and one or more linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The final ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linu= x learning goodness.  I envision it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a slightly expanded install fest.

The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the ground is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I have nill resources in terms of space.

can you help?
~david
------=_Part_6914_18807066.1143420066166-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Mon Mar 27 09:22:25 2006 Received: from web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.113]:36210) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNvQ4-0002CA-Si for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:22:24 -0800 Received: (qmail 93669 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Mar 2006 17:22:10 -0000 Message-ID: <20060327172210.93667.qmail@web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31401.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:22:10 PST Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 09:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Adrien Lamothe To: David Reber , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.113 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-679266154-1143480130=:91534" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:22:25 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4463 Lines: 41 --0-679266154-1143480130=:91534 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi David, Someone who tried to do that told me the schools only want newer hardware, even if it is free. His offers of older hardware were declined. Perhaps the administrators think that any hardware in the classrooms will prevent funding for new hardware, so they are better off not having anything until they can get funded. - Adrien David Reber wrote: For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it: We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage every day. They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed). Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens who would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle computer. So my idea is to bring the two togeather: have a space, and one or more linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week. The final ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness. I envision it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with whatever project/problem they're experiencing. Sort of a slightly expanded install fest. The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the ground is space and leadership. I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I have nill resources in terms of space. can you help? ~david _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-679266154-1143480130=:91534 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi David,

Someone who tried to do that told me the schools only want newer hardware, even if it is free. His offers of older hardware were declined. Perhaps the administrators think that any hardware in the classrooms will prevent funding for new hardware, so they are better off not having anything until they can get funded.

- Adrien

David Reber <morpheus2485@gmail.com> wrote:
For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:

We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage every day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed).

Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and teens  who would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle computer. 

So my idea is to bring the two togeather:  have a space, and one or more linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The final ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worried about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness.  I envision it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a slightly expanded install fest.

The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the ground is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of leadership, but I have nill resources in terms of space.

can you help?
~david
_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-679266154-1143480130=:91534-- From morpheus2485@gmail.com Mon Mar 27 11:50:59 2006 Received: from pproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.166.182]:3978) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FNxjq-0003Bs-DD for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:58 -0800 Received: by pproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id x66so3175811pye for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.89.10 with SMTP id r10mr1401639pyl; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.35.45.18 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:50:47 -0800 From: "David Reber" To: "David Sterry" , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 References: Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of morpheus2485@gmail.com designates 64.233.166.182 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.166.182 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: morpheus2485@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7852_10574098.1143489047668" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:51:00 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 7294 Lines: 176 ------=_Part_7852_10574098.1143489047668 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The primary goal would be to get computers into the hands of lower income families. Using Linux would be a way to avoid licencing issues, and easier on the older hardware the project would likely receive. Beyond getting hardware into the hands of lower income families, the projec= t would serve as a space to help people with problems and nurture projects like people creating their own alternatives to myspace (that sounds like a really good idea by the way). ~david On 27 Mar 2006 19:00:52 GMT, David Sterry wrote: > > Hi David, > > I think the biggest problem with this idea is defining the goal of the > project. Is it to get computers into the hands of lower income families? = Is > it to spread linux? > > If it's the latter I think you've really got to play into linux > strengths...being that it's great if you want to run a web server or deve= lop > web apps and services. So who'd want to this kind of stuff? I'm thinking = the > head geeks in schools. They probably have all they want in terms of hardw= are > so I think it's really just introducing them to a good starting linux > project. Myspace is so popuular amongst kids that saying create your own > myspace might be a cool project that would attract school kids attention. > Just my 2 cents... > > Thanks, > > David Sterry > david@sterryit.com > > ---- Original Message ---- > From: "David Reber" > Date: 3/26/06 4:41 pm > To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" > Subj: [sf-lug] Linux Kitchen? > > For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea in my > head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it: > > > We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage > every > day. They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'll still do > everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more. (In fact, > they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux installed). > > > Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids and > teens who > would be more than happy to get their hands on a functional older moddle > computer. > > > So my idea is to bring the two togeather: have a space, and one or more > linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week. The final > ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularly worrie= d > about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learning goodness. I > envision > it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help with > whatever project/problem they're experiencing. Sort of a slightly > expanded > install fest. > > > The biggest problem that this project has in terms of getting off the > ground > is space and leadership. I can provide a good amount of leadership, but = I > have nill resources in terms of space. > > > can you help? > ~david > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > ------=_Part_7852_10574098.1143489047668 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
The primary goal would be to get computers into the hands of lower inc= ome families. 
 
Using Linux would be a way to avoid licencing issues, and easier on th= e older hardware the project would likely receive.
 
Beyond getting hardware into the hands of lower income families, the p= roject would serve as a space to help people with problems and nurture proj= ects like people creating their own alternatives to myspace (that sounds li= ke a really good idea by the way).
 
~david

 
On 27 Mar 2006 19:00:52 GMT, David Sterry <david@sterryit.com> wrote:
Hi David,

I think the big= gest problem with this idea is defining the goal of the project. Is it to g= et computers into the hands of lower income families? Is it to spread linux= ?

If it's the latter I think you've really got to play into linux str= engths...being that it's great if you want to run a web server or develop w= eb apps and services. So who'd want to this kind of stuff? I'm thinking the= head geeks in schools. They probably have all they want in terms of hardwa= re so I think it's really just introducing them to a good starting linux pr= oject. Myspace is so popuular amongst kids that saying create your own mysp= ace might be a cool project that would attract school kids attention. Just = my 2 cents...

Thanks,

David Sterry
david@sterryit.com

---- Original Message ----
From: "D= avid Reber" <morpheus2485= @gmail.com >
Date: 3/26/06 4:41 pm
To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" <sf-lug@linuxmafia.com>
Subj: [sf-lug] Linux Kitche= n?

For several months now I've been kicking around the following idea = in my
head without ever getting the guts to go ahead with it:

We all know that there's tons of computers being thrown in the garbage eve= ry
day.  They're not the latest and greatest affairs, but they'l= l still do
everything they did the day they were sold for $1000 or more.= (In fact,
they'll do more with your favorite distribution of linux inst= alled).


Also, there is, I assume, a fair number of lower income kids an= d teens  who
would be more than happy to get their hands on a = functional older moddle
computer.


So my idea is to bring the = two togeather:  have a space, and one or more
linux veterans to man the place at least one day a week.  The= final
ingreediants are the donated computers (which i'm not particularl= y worried
about), invite the locals, and "wasta": linux learni= ng goodness.  I envision
it as being a place where people can learn about linux and get help wit= h
whatever project/problem they're experiencing.  Sort of a sl= ightly expanded
install fest.


The biggest problem that this p= roject has in terms of getting off the ground
is space and leadership.  I can provide a good amount of lead= ership, but I
have nill resources in terms of space.


can you = help?
~david



____________________________________________= ___
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linu= xmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug




------=_Part_7852_10574098.1143489047668-- From jim@well.com Tue Mar 28 07:11:15 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:61250) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FOFqi-00035M-W5 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:11:14 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-182-224.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.182.224]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2SFB52u002163 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:11:05 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <7348E46A-BE6D-11DA-996C-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:13:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1359/Tue Mar 28 03:49:08 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] sf-lug meeting at SFSU Tuesday April 11 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 15:11:16 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 165 Lines: 8 Meeting is 6:30 PM till 9:00 PM. I'll have a machine there. Room to be determined. I'll be grateful to anyone who comes with, even give ride to and from. jim From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Mar 29 15:39:20 2006 Received: from web80411.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.66]:21279) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FOkFu-0008Fd-8n for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:39:19 -0800 Received: (qmail 29925 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Mar 2006 23:39:05 -0000 Message-ID: <20060329233905.29923.qmail@web80411.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80411.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:39:04 PST Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 15:39:04 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.66 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1023309430-1143675544=:27004" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (jobs) IT Career Fair on Thursday at Esurance X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 23:39:20 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5792 Lines: 86 --0-1023309430-1143675544=:27004 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought I'd pass this along to anyone looking for a job. Susan MacTavish Best wrote: To: From: Susan MacTavish Best Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:12:06 -1200 (GMT) Subject: [new-sfwow] (jobs) IT Career Fair on Thursday at Esurance Hi Folks, Hey, my client Esurance is having a Career Fair tomorrow that I thought may be of interest. I have loved working with this company (though obviously I don't work internally). But they have treated us really well so I imagine they are good to work for too internally. Esurance IT Career Fair Thursday, March 30th from 12:30pm to 7:30pm 747 Front Street, 4th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94111 • Development Manager • Senior Build Release Eng • Project Manager - Dev • Senior Developer • Sr. SQL Server DBA • Project Lead • Disaster Recovery Engineer • IPCC System Engineer • QA Automation Engineer • Security Engineer • Software Developer • Developers www.esurance.com I don't know anything about these positions, just passing this along. Susan. ___________________ Susan MacTavish Best Best Public Relations http://www.bestpr.net Publicist for Citizen Cake, *craigslist, Diabetes Adventure Tours, Esurance, Lulu.com, The Pearl Outlet, The Real Race and Smugmug 38 Miller Ave, #334 Mill Valley, CA 94941 (Mailing) Tel: 415 505 0301 Fax: 415 358 4785 ___________________________ Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-1023309430-1143675544=:27004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought I'd pass this along to anyone looking for a job.

Susan MacTavish Best <susan@perfectorange.com> wrote:
To: <new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com>
From: Susan MacTavish Best <susan@perfectorange.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:12:06 -1200 (GMT)
Subject: [new-sfwow] (jobs) IT Career Fair on Thursday at Esurance

Hi Folks,

Hey, my client Esurance is having a Career Fair tomorrow that I thought may be of interest. I have loved working with this company (though obviously I don't work internally). But they have treated us really well so I imagine they are good to work for too internally.

Esurance IT Career Fair

Thursday, March 30th from 12:30pm to 7:30pm
747 Front Street, 4th Floor, San Francisco, CA 94111
• Development Manager
• Senior Build Release Eng
• Project Manager - Dev
• Senior Developer
• Sr. SQL Server DBA
• Project Lead
• Disaster Recovery Engineer
• IPCC System Engineer
• QA Automation Engineer
• Security Engineer
• Software Developer
• Developers
www.esurance.com

I don't know anything about these positions, just passing this along.

Susan.


___________________
Susan MacTavish Best
Best Public Relations
http://www.bestpr.net

Publicist for Citizen Cake, *craigslist, Diabetes Adventure Tours, Esurance, Lulu.com, The Pearl Outlet, The Real Race and Smugmug

38 Miller Ave, #334
Mill Valley, CA 94941 (Mailing)
Tel: 415 505 0301
Fax: 415 358 4785
___________________________



Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
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--0-1023309430-1143675544=:27004-- From jim@well.com Thu Mar 30 07:19:12 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:46219) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FOyvU-00065n-Kz for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:19:12 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-1-197.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.1.197]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2UFIxxP018678 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:18:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 07:21:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-1-68659785 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: O'Reilly UG News--Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available for MySQL Users Conference X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:19:13 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3303 Lines: 149 --Apple-Mail-1-68659785 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: March 29, 2006 9:59:38 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: O'Reilly UG News--Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available for > MySQL Users Conference > > Hi-- > > Can you pass this along if you think any of your members might > be interested? > > You still have time to sign up for a MySQL exhibit hall pass ($25.00). > The hall is open Tuesday, April 25 from 10:00am-4:30pm and then > you are welcome to attend the exhibitor reception--food and drinks > included--from 6:00pm-7:30pm. > > On Wednesday, April 26, the exhibit hall is open from 10:00am-5:00pm. > > The conference exhibit hall, the biggest one yet, will feature MySQL > and open source products and services. You'll also be able to learn > more about worthwhile projects in the DotOrg Pavilion, located inside > the hall. > > To purchase an exhibit hall pass, go to: > http://www.mysqluc.com/pub/w/45/register.html > > (Sorry, UG discount does not apply on exhibit hall passes.) > > For more information on the MySQL Users Conference 2006 > in Santa Clara, California, go to: > http://www.mysqluc.com/ > > > Thanks, > > Marsee > > ================================================================ > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > ================================================================ > --Apple-Mail-1-68659785 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 29, 2006 9:59:38 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: O'Reilly UG News--Exhibit Hall Passes Still Available for MySQL Users Conference Hi-- Can you pass this along if you think any of your members might be interested? You still have time to sign up for a MySQL exhibit hall pass ($25.00). The hall is open Tuesday, April 25 from 10:00am-4:30pm and then you are welcome to attend the exhibitor reception--food and drinks included--from 6:00pm-7:30pm. On Wednesday, April 26, the exhibit hall is open from 10:00am-5:00pm. The conference exhibit hall, the biggest one yet, will feature MySQL and open source products and services. You'll also be able to learn more about worthwhile projects in the DotOrg Pavilion, located inside the hall. To purchase an exhibit hall pass, go to: http://www.mysqluc.com/pub/w/45/register.html (Sorry, UG discount does not apply on exhibit hall passes.) For more information on the MySQL Users Conference 2006 in Santa Clara, California, go to: http://www.mysqluc.com/ Thanks, Marsee ================================================================ O'Reilly 1005 Gravenstein Highway North Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com ================================================================ --Apple-Mail-1-68659785-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Thu Mar 30 09:17:56 2006 Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.64]:33067) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FP0mL-0006zg-IS for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:17:55 -0800 Received: (qmail 47938 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Mar 2006 17:17:39 -0000 Message-ID: <20060330171738.47934.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:17:38 PST Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.64 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2105539072-1143739058=:33405" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Subscribe free to Network Support and Sys Admin X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:17:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 13518 Lines: 48 --0-2105539072-1143739058=:33405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thought I'd forward this along. Anybody interested. TradePub Telecommunications Publications wrote: From: "TradePub Telecommunications Publications" Subject: Subscribe free to Network Support and Sys Admin To: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:45:01 -0800 Dear vincent, We are sending you this offer because you have subscribed to similar Telecommunications Publications in the past. As such, we wanted to give you the chance to subscribe to Network Support and also to Sys Admin. Be sure to forward this email to business associates - they may wish to apply to receive a complimentary publication in their industry as well. Network Support NaSPA, the Network and Systems Professionals Association, Inc. is dedicated to the IT professionals who implement, support and manage their company's integrated operating environments. Network Support magazine encompasses a variety of informative topics that are sure to appeal to all IT professionals, from the data center to the desktop. Network Support delves into the perennial concerns of host-based and networked environments through the following highly focused topics: Storage, Security, Backup and Recovery, SQL server, Certifications and training, Linux, Wireless technology, Disaster Recovery, XML and Shareware. Sys Admin Every month we'll give you the information you need to handle the daily challenges of systems administration efficiently and effectively. You'll find ways to improve the performance or extend the capabilities of your system. Coverage includes: integrating heterogeneous systems-UNIX, NT, W4W, NetWare; security; backup; crash recovery; system analysis and monitoring; and system automation. MORE Trade Publications FREE to Qualified Professionals include: Security Technology & Design Is the fastest growing publication in the security technology industry. ... Diesel & Gas Turbine Worldwide Is the Marine & Stationary Power Authority, covering the markets, products, technology and industry news of the large piston engine and gas turbine industries. ... Total Telecom Is "The Economist of the communications industry". ... Other Professional Publications can be found at: Telecommunications , more... Browse the list of job functions and industries on the application form to see if you might qualify. Also note the geographic availability. Then simply complete the form and submit it. If you have co-workers, friends or family who work in a related field, please pass this offer on to them - they'll thank you! Cheers, TradePub.com Team customer-service@TradePub.com www.TradePub.com Subscribe: click here Unsubscribe: You are subscribed as vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com. If you want to change your contact preferences or if you want to be removed from this list, click here. Privacy Policy | FAQ | Legal Notices Copyright © 2005 NetLine Corporation. All rights reserved. 16795 Lark Avenue, Suite 210, Los Gatos, CA 95032 --0-2105539072-1143739058=:33405 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thought I'd forward this along. Anybody interested.

TradePub Telecommunications Publications <Announcements@Tradepub.nl00.net> wrote:
From: "TradePub Telecommunications Publications"
<Announcements@Tradepub.nl00.net>
Subject: Subscribe free to Network Support and Sys Admin
To: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:45:01 -0800

        Dear vincent,
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We are sending you this offer because you have subscribed to similar Telecommunications Publications in the past. As such, we wanted to give you the chance to subscribe to Network Support and also to Sys Admin.
Be sure to forward this email to business associates - they may wish to apply to receive a complimentary publication in their industry as well.
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Network Support NaSPA, the Network and Systems Professionals Association, Inc. is dedicated to the IT professionals who implement, support and manage their company's integrated operating environments. Network Support magazine encompasses a variety of informative topics that are sure to appeal to all IT professionals, from the data center to the desktop. Network Support delves into the perennial concerns of host-based and networked environments through the following highly focused topics: Storage, Security, Backup and Recovery, SQL server, Certifications and training, Linux, Wireless technology, Disaster Recovery, XML and Shareware.
Sys Admin Every month we'll give you the information you need to handle the daily challenges of systems administration efficiently and effectively. You'll find ways to improve the performance or extend the capabilities of your system. Coverage includes: integrating heterogeneous systems-UNIX, NT, W4W, NetWare; security; backup; crash recovery; system analysis and monitoring; and system automation.
 MORE Trade Publications FREE to Qualified Professionals include:
Security Technology & Design Is the fastest growing publication in the security technology industry. ... Diesel & Gas Turbine Worldwide Is the Marine & Stationary Power Authority, covering the markets, products, technology and industry news of the large piston engine and gas turbine industries. ... Total Telecom Is "The Economist of the communications industry". ...
Other Professional Publications can be found at: Telecommunications , more...
Browse the list of job functions and industries on the application form to see if you might qualify. Also note the geographic availability. Then simply complete the form and submit it.
If you have co-workers, friends or family who work in a related field, please pass this offer on to them - they'll thank you!
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--0-2105539072-1143739058=:33405-- From a_kleider@yahoo.com Thu Mar 30 16:45:05 2006 Received: from web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.19]:23450) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FP7l4-0001Qx-Jo for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:45:04 -0800 Received: (qmail 13662 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Mar 2006 00:44:47 -0000 Message-ID: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.164.82.243] by web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:44:46 PST Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:44:46 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Kleider To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of a_kleider@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.191.85.19 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: a_kleider@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list Reply-To: alex@kleider.net List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:45:06 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 369 Lines: 14 can anyone suggest a simple screen capture tool? (and how to install and use it) all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++ programs from/to the terminal program. Alex alex@kleider.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From nbs@sonic.net Thu Mar 30 17:24:01 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:59341) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FP8Mm-0001nX-DD for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:24:00 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2V1NfYh027652 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:23:41 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:+5ZjkEOH+L4UK9lzrHBPnU9T6e0Tf2j3@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k2V1Nf8f024016 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:23:41 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1/Submit) id k2V1Nfka024015 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:23:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:23:41 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:24:01 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 683 Lines: 26 On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote: > can anyone suggest a simple screen capture tool? (and how to install > and use it) > all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++ > programs > from/to the terminal program. Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here? e.g.: someprogram > outfile.txt or: someprogram | tee outfile.txt ??? Or am I missing something? (aka, please be more specific!) -- -bill! Tux Paint 2006 wall calendar, bill@newbreedsoftware.com CDROM, bumper sticker & apparel http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/ http://www.cafepress.com/newbreedsw From rick@rbsmith.com Thu Mar 30 19:02:22 2006 Received: from bsdwebhosting.net ([209.120.136.141]:4825 helo=pluto.bsdwebhosting.net) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FP9tx-0002OE-Uu for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:02:21 -0800 Received: (qmail 73694 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2006 03:02:05 -0000 Received: (for user u000173); Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:02:05 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.77.1?) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 31 Mar 2006 03:02:05 -0000 Message-ID: <442C9B75.8010809@rbsmith.com> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:01:09 -0800 From: Rick Smith User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net> In-Reply-To: <20060331012341.GB23431@sonic.net> Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of rick@rbsmith.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.120.136.141 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@rbsmith.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:02:22 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 917 Lines: 35 Bill Kendrick wrote: > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote: >> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture tool? (and how to install >> and use it) >> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++ >> programs >> from/to the terminal program. > > Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here? > > e.g.: > > someprogram > outfile.txt > > or: > > someprogram | tee outfile.txt I was thinking along the same lines, additionally getting stderr in there too: someprogram > outfile.txt 2>&1 or someprogram 2>&1 | tee outfile.txt but not someprogram 2>&1 > outfile.txt The last one confuses me until I think about 2>&1 makes stderr go into stdout at the time it is parsed. In the last one, stdout has not been redirected to outfile.txt yet, so stderr will go to where stdout is (the terminal). Best to play around and see. Rick From a_kleider@yahoo.com Thu Mar 30 19:37:17 2006 Received: from web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.18]:20505) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPARi-0002bD-AW for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:37:16 -0800 Received: (qmail 68791 invoked by uid 60001); 31 Mar 2006 03:36:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [68.164.82.243] by web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:36:58 PST Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:36:58 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Kleider To: Kevin Kemp , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, tlasman@comcast.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of a_kleider@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.191.85.18 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: a_kleider@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-2061011689-1143776218=:67947" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] screen capture X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list Reply-To: alex@kleider.net List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:37:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3537 Lines: 94 --0-2061011689-1143776218=:67947 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Id: Content-Disposition: inline Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out; Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very similar to Windows' Notepad. Todd and other sf-lugers: sorry to trouble you with the request. For anyone doing C++ programming: can you figure out why the attached program works for all data types EXCEPT char? Alex ps memAllocation.cpp created with emacs; screenCapture.txt created with kwrite. alex@kleider.net __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --0-2061011689-1143776218=:67947 Content-Type: text/x-c++src; name="memAllocation.cpp" Content-Description: 658357096-memAllocation.cpp Content-Disposition: inline; filename="memAllocation.cpp" // memAllocation.cpp //my attemmpt at finding out exactly //how data types are allocated memory #include using namespace std; int main (void) { long int pShort, pInt, pLong, pFloat, pDouble, pLongDouble, pChar, pBoolean; short int shortIntA, shortIntB; short int *pShortIntA, *pShortIntB; pShortIntA = &shortIntA; pShortIntB = &shortIntB; cout<<"Adjacent short integers have addresses "< for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:49:04 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:49:03 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331044903.GH5311@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] screen capture X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 04:49:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 841 Lines: 18 Quoting Alex Kleider (a_kleider@yahoo.com): > Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out; > Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the > highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very > similar to Windows' Notepad. If you want to log _extended_ terminal activity, don't overlook the /usr/bin/script utility, which opens a new subshell, all of whose screen output gets logged from that point forward to an ASCII file, default name "typescript". When you're done, typing Ctrl-D or "exit" closes the subshell (and thus terminates logging). -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From marilyn@deliberate.com Thu Mar 30 21:12:01 2006 Received: from adsl-66-218-47-177.dslextreme.com ([66.218.47.177]:40073 helo=deliberate.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPBvN-0003Ki-N6 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:12:00 -0800 Received: from marilyn (helo=localhost) by deliberate.com with local-esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1FPBvB-0007kr-Iy for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:11:41 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:11:41 -0800 (PST) From: Marilyn Davis X-X-Sender: marilyn@localhost.localdomain To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <442C9B75.8010809@rbsmith.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of marilyn@deliberate.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.47.177 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: marilyn@deliberate.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:12:01 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2312 Lines: 79 On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Rick Smith wrote: > Bill Kendrick wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 30, 2006 at 04:44:46PM -0800, Alex Kleider wrote: > >> can anyone suggest a simple screen capture tool? (and how to install > >> and use it) > >> all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++ > >> programs > >> from/to the terminal program. > > > > Err... wouldn't simple Un*x redirection be useful here? > > > > e.g.: > > > > someprogram > outfile.txt > > > > or: > > > > someprogram | tee outfile.txt > > I was thinking along the same lines, additionally getting stderr in > there too: Two other possibilities are the script command, and an emacs shell buffer. The script command: bash-2.05a$ script Script started, file is typescript ( from now on, everything that comes to my screen bash-2.05a$ ls *.py ( also lands in the typescript file ls: *.py: No such file or directory ( so here I'm just doing some random stuff bash-2.05a$ date ( to put some stuff in the typescript file Thu Mar 30 21:05:59 PST 2006 bash-2.05a$ exit ( This exit gets me out of the script command Script done, file is typescript bash-2.05a$ cat typescript ( Now, here is what was recorded Script started on Thu Mar 30 21:05:35 2006 bash-2.05a$ ls: *.py: No such file or directory bash-2.05a$ Thu Mar 30 21:05:59 PST 2006 bash-2.05a$ Script done on Thu Mar 30 21:06:02 2006 bash-2.05a$ ( Finally back to my live bash shell The emacs command to get a shell is ESC-x shell. Then everything you do is in an emacs buffer and you can cut and paste from it, or just rename the whole thing. Hope it helps, Marilyn > someprogram > outfile.txt 2>&1 > or > someprogram 2>&1 | tee outfile.txt > but not > someprogram 2>&1 > outfile.txt > > The last one confuses me until I think about 2>&1 makes stderr > go into stdout at the time it is parsed. > In the last one, stdout has not been redirected to outfile.txt yet, > so stderr will go to where stdout is (the terminal). > Best to play around and see. > > Rick > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -- From marilyn@deliberate.com Thu Mar 30 21:14:36 2006 Received: from adsl-66-218-47-177.dslextreme.com ([66.218.47.177]:40114 helo=deliberate.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPBxx-0003M0-ML for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:14:35 -0800 Received: from marilyn (helo=localhost) by deliberate.com with local-esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1FPBxp-0007n8-0M for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:14:25 -0800 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:14:25 -0800 (PST) From: Marilyn Davis X-X-Sender: marilyn@localhost.localdomain To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <20060331033658.68789.qmail@web36601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of marilyn@deliberate.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.47.177 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: marilyn@deliberate.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] screen capture X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 05:14:37 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 963 Lines: 34 On Thu, 30 Mar 2006, Alex Kleider wrote: > Kevin: thanks for your prompt response. I'll check it out; > Actually, I discovered I can highlight the terminal and copy the > highlighted part and then paste it into kwrite which seems to be very > similar to Windows' Notepad. Oh, if you're in X, you might enjoy trying a screen capture with pimp. > Todd and other sf-lugers: sorry to trouble you with the request. > For anyone doing C++ programming: can you figure out why the attached > program works for all data types EXCEPT char? I don't see an attachment, but char is the one-byte data type, the others are more bytes. Could that be the source of your problem? Marilyn > Alex > ps memAllocation.cpp created with emacs; screenCapture.txt created with kwrite. > > alex@kleider.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com -- From jim@well.com Fri Mar 31 07:18:28 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:56481) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPLOK-0007NG-AV for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:18:27 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-52.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.52]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k2VFIJBP002313 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:18:20 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 07:21:00 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Sunday at the Javacat 11 AM to 1 PM X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:18:29 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1010 Lines: 28 See you there, Javacat on Geary at 20th in SF. I got a package from Marsee Henon at O'reilly: it's got three books in it. I don't recall ordering them, tho' I like them. If any of you ordered books in the name of sf-lug, let me know (fast). I plan to bring the books Sunday for perusal and divvying up. Adrien Lamothe wrote an article for O'Reilly's ONLamp.com magazine: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2006/03/23/apple_vs_everyone.html Here's the blurb from the Linux News newsletter: Apple's actually migrated to Intel-based processors just as the PS3 is about to get ready to come out. The Cell processor may resurrect the PowerPC architecture. The PS3 may be a general-purpose Linux box sold stealthily as a game device. What does this all mean for Linux? Is Apple getting pinned between IBM and Linux? What do processor architectures have to do with operating systems and the future of software? Adrien Lamothe speculates how Apple's risks might open more doors for truly free software: From gnelson@gmail.com Fri Mar 31 10:43:41 2006 Received: from nproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.182.191]:13109) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPOak-0000Qy-8l for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:40 -0800 Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n28so691423nfc for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.48.246.8 with SMTP id t8mr503525nfh; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.1.5 with HTTP; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:43:17 -0800 From: "Greg Nelson" To: alex@kleider.net In-Reply-To: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass (linuxmafia.com: domain of gnelson@gmail.com designates 64.233.182.191 as permitted sender) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.233.182.191 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: gnelson@gmail.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5148_23236494.1143830597693" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list Reply-To: greg@perlnelson.org List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:43:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4414 Lines: 103 ------=_Part_5148_23236494.1143830597693 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Alex, I also am looking for a screen capture tool, so perhaps we can share any leads. So far, I typed "x windows screen capture" into Google and among the first hits was a survey at the URL http://tejaconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey= .html There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your needs. (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still imag= e screenshot, and although there were some tools listed in the survey that were claimed to capture video, which I might be able to use, none of them appeared to be Linux-based, which I would prefer. So I will continue looking. I'll share with you any further leads that I find. If you have a requirement that excludes the tools listed in the Teja consulting survey, you should let me know, so that I don't bother you with useless leads. Cheers, Greg Nelson greg@perlnelson.org 839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303 (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile) On 3/30/06, Alex Kleider wrote: > > can anyone suggest a simple screen capture tool? (and how to install > and use it) > all I want to do is capture the results of execution of simple C++ > programs > from/to the terminal program. > Alex > > alex@kleider.net > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > -- ------=_Part_5148_23236494.1143830597693 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Alex,

I also am looking for a screen capture tool, so perhaps we can= share any leads.

So far, I typed "x windows screen capture&quo= t; into Google and among the first hits was a survey at the URL

http://tejaconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey= .html

There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which mig= ht meet your needs.  (I personally need to capture video rather than a= single still image screenshot, and although there were some tools listed i= n the survey that were claimed to capture video, which I might be able to u= se, none of them appeared to be Linux-based, which I would prefer. So I wil= l continue looking.  I'll share with you any further leads that I find= .  If you have a requirement that excludes the tools listed in the Tej= a consulting survey, you should let me know, so that I don't bother you wit= h useless leads.

Cheers,

Greg Nelson
greg@perlnelson.org
839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303
= (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile)

On 3/30/06, Alex Kleider <a_kleider@y= ahoo.com> wrote:
can anyone suggest a simple screen capture  tool? (and how to&nbs= p; install
and use it)
all I want to do is capture the results o= f execution of simple C++
programs
from/to the terminal program.
A= lex

alex@kleider.net

_______________________________________________= ___
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best= spam protection around
http://mail.ya= hoo.com

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing l= ist
sf-lug@linuxmafia.comhttp://linuxmaf= ia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug



--

------=_Part_5148_23236494.1143830597693-- From darose@darose.net Fri Mar 31 10:51:10 2006 Received: from ms-smtp-03-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com ([24.29.109.7]:36433 helo=ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPOiB-0000Ug-8N for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 10:51:09 -0800 Received: from darsys6 (cpe-66-108-243-4.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.243.4]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k2VIlFAG017412 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:47:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [10.1.0.2] by darsys6 with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FPOi2-0006IV-Nb for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:50:58 -0500 Message-ID: <442D7A12.7040103@darose.net> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:50:58 -0500 From: David Rosenstrauch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of darose@darose.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 24.29.109.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: darose@darose.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:51:10 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 163 Lines: 12 Greg Nelson wrote: > Alex, > > I also am looking for a screen capture tool, so perhaps we can share any > leads. If you use KDE, ksnapshot works nicely. DR From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Mar 31 11:51:18 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPPeQ-0000s0-4G by authid for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:51:18 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 11:51:17 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 19:51:19 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 841 Lines: 26 Quoting Greg Nelson (gnelson@gmail.com): > http://tejaconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey.html ^^ Typo. Should be: http://tejasconsulting.com/open-testware/feature/screen-capture-tools-survey.html > There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your > needs. More here: "Screen Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps > (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still image > screenshot... Ah. See: "Desktop Video-Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps Please let me know of any I've missed. ;-> -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From nbs@sonic.net Fri Mar 31 12:27:32 2006 Received: from b.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.19.5]:57484) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPQDS-0001Dj-1j for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:32 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by b.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2VKRPO8029249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:25 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:/ZKMpYa5zyvQN/nmQRdLpRviEm+tBS7t@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k2VKRPnM011555 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:25 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1/Submit) id k2VKRPqK011554 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:25 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:27:25 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331202725.GA11437@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.19.5 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:27:33 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 534 Lines: 15 On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 10:43:17AM -0800, Greg Nelson wrote: > There were a lot of tools surveyed there, one of which might meet your > needs. (I personally need to capture video rather than a single still image > screenshot, and although there were some tools listed in the survey that > were claimed to capture video, which I might be able to use, none of them > appeared to be Linux-based, which I would prefer. I have captured videos of X-Window sessions under Linux. See: http://xvidcap.sourceforge.net/ Good luck! -bill! From nbs@sonic.net Fri Mar 31 12:28:35 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:49088) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPQEO-0001Ej-UC for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:34 -0800 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k2VKSOwR004172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:24 -0800 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:xWd1epK7hIeiLxyrzAtlBhLd5ProC4+B@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k2VKSOur011613 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:24 -0800 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1/Submit) id k2VKSNPJ011612 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:28:23 -0800 From: Bill Kendrick To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:28:35 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 318 Lines: 12 On Fri, Mar 31, 2006 at 11:51:17AM -0800, Rick Moen wrote: > > Ah. See: > "Desktop Video-Capture" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps > > Please let me know of any I've missed. ;-> Your link for xvidcap (http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/VideoC/xscript.html) seems defunt. See my prev email for an update. :) -bill! From rick@linuxmafia.com Fri Mar 31 13:10:21 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPQsu-0002Lp-F7 by authid for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:10:20 -0800 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:10:19 -0800 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060331211019.GK5311@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060331004447.13660.qmail@web36602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4c85bff50603311043p782872e3pb16bea3587baf811@mail.gmail.com> <20060331195117.GJ5311@linuxmafia.com> <20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060331202823.GB11437@sonic.net> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] terminal program screen capture tool X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:10:21 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 531 Lines: 13 Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs@sonic.net): > Your link for xvidcap (http://youpou.lip6.fr/queinnec/VideoC/xscript.html) > seems defunt. See my prev email for an update. :) The whole page was sort of a trainwreck, having been hastily stuck together from multiple e-mails. I've fixed it, now. -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From Polite.Vincent@epamail.epa.gov Thu Mar 30 09:26:08 2006 Received: from myrtle.rtpnc.epa.gov ([134.67.208.33]:2978) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FP0uF-00072c-7O for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:26:07 -0800 Received: from epahub11.rtp.epa.gov (epahub11.rtp.epa.gov [134.67.213.52]) by epamail.epa.gov (PMDF V5.2-32 #42055) with ESMTP id <0IWY00I5LAXZ44@epamail.epa.gov> for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 12:22:47 -0500 (EST) Content-return: prohibited Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 09:22:45 -0800 From: Polite.Vincent@epamail.epa.gov To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.5.1 January 21, 2004 Content-disposition: inline X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on EPAHUB11/USEPA/US(653HF66|November 02, 2004) at 03/30/2006 12:21:59 PM Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of Polite.Vincent@epamail.epa.gov does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 134.67.208.33 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: Polite.Vincent@epamail.epa.gov X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME, UPPERCASE_25_50 autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; Boundary="0__=07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F8f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 08:35:47 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fw: I Love My Job: a poem by Dr. Seuss X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:26:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 130536 Lines: 1727 --0__=07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F8f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Ever have days like this. ---------------------------------------- Vince Polite - Web Support Vistronix Contractor to US EPA, R9 polite.vincent@epa.gov | 415-972-3668 > > > Region 9 Web Updates < < < http://r9tc.r09.epa.gov/webtracker/ ---------------------------------------- ----- Forwarded by Vincent Polite/R9/USEPA/US on 03/30/2006 09:22 AM ----- Lisa Fasano/R9/USEPA/ US To Wendy Chavez/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, 03/30/2006 09:01 Laura Gentile/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, AM Mark Merchant/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Sunny Nelson/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Brent Maier/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Jim Vreeland/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Francisco Arcaute/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Dean Higuchi/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Patti Nelson/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Vincent Polite/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Alita Green/R9/USEPA/US@EPA, Ivry 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lvjFVRRUGdKFzikwH4dV4KHfA/k9gEDFx5FmD8USIMAxxxL4lwUJIjDwC8MThMTBWfdqgSKejdIr wQYih2HnWPz6WjO+JKDWEosStNpFcJlAMOBqvThQyLlUWMiBhXBE40EhEGv8QVMvqdhAAufexxJM KRsNzDBVa7wIJHH8oZU4vVQS6XppVHhhG59FIzSCH0aSsIUTPM1ahFzcItwFVYpNQSRIlq1WBJg4 50aNrLDsl117NMAwKwuIAw12tXyZRsmqWBjSgFLtHJSiKsY0E2JeKudB43AQbrSrQAFwPe0mm0Qi ADWQUIr7IIXQ3gUAwg9Uxu6vKrJLIxoyZkAdhkWwIbzFN0F89SN/g3sJqGBniQCRbE/L9diPEQQA O0TCewm8gB8+FkEAADs= --0__=07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F8f9e8a93df938690918c07BBFBD2DFCCEA5F-- From jim@well.com Sat Apr 01 15:04:08 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:47972) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPp8X-0004jO-Kb for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 15:04:07 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-31-82.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.31.82]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k31N3xVt000311 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:03:59 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <2DF7DAAA-C1D4-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:06:40 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] link to intro to ruby on rails X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:04:08 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 170 Lines: 7 I think this is a pretty good intro for those with some coding experience but completely unfamiliar with ruby on rails: http://www.sitepoint.com/article/ruby-on-rails From jim@well.com Sat Apr 01 15:19:47 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48643) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPpNf-0004oU-I5 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 15:19:47 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-31-82.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.31.82]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k31NJdJY004480 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:19:39 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: <5E9C5DE4-C1D6-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:22:21 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6-270300714 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] maria dilisio at willis needs a linux expert X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:19:48 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5965 Lines: 150 --Apple-Mail-6-270300714 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed From Maria.DiLisio@willis.com > Job Purpose: =A0=A0=A0 This person will provide a highly technical=20 > leadership role in researching, designing, specifying, and maintaining=20= > global CCI (Computer and Communications Infrastructure) infrastructure=20= > with a particular emphasis on Linux software and hardware deployments=20= > and security model definition and enforcement.=A0 > > Dimensions: > Subordinates:(number and type of direct and overall reports) > No direct reports, but expecting a technical leader. > > Principal Accountabilities and Tasks: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 This person will = be a key=20 > member of a small team responsible for successfully specifying,=20 > deploying, and maintaining computer and communications infrastructure=20= > in an environment currently numbering over 300 servers and network=20 > devices.=A0 This is a lead technical role responsible for defining,=20 > implementing and maintaining: production server and OS platforms,=20 > security standards on both OS and network technologies, data=20 > protection, production network and system deployments, power systems,=20= > operating system and middleware standards, remote management tools,=20 > redundancy and resiliency and high availability systems, system=20 > maintenance practices, auditing, intrusion detection.=A0 This is an=20 > architectural level position but the expectation is that it is much=20 > more hands on than a traditional systems architect. > > Education & Qualifications: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 > BSCS or related, Masters. A PhD would be of interest. Many years=20 > experience in computer and network infrastructure.=A0 Many years = proven=20 > experience in a senior technical decision maker role.=A0 Several years=20= > experience as a Unix/Linux system administrator.=A0 Linux/Unix and=20 > Windows networking experience, open source software experience,=20 > network architecture experience, superior written and verbal=20 > communications skills, knowledge and/or support of software=20 > development process. > > Skills and Experience: =A0=A0 > This person must have demonstrated increasing responsibility in=20 > computer infrastructure and networking technology with experience in a=20= > lights out production revenue-producing environment. > > The position requires a strong blend of intelligence, diplomacy,=20 > quickness, agile communications, technical depth and breadth, industry=20= > knowledge and experience that quickly gains respect and trust of staff=20= > inside and outside the department. > --Apple-Mail-6-270300714 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 =46rom=20 Maria.DiLisio@willis.com=20 ArialJob Purpose: =A0=A0=A0 This person will provide a highly technical leadership role in researching, designing, specifying, and maintaining global CCI (Computer and Communications Infrastructure) infrastructure with a particular emphasis on Linux software and hardware deployments and security model definition and enforcement.=A0 = ArialDimensions: ArialSubordinates:(number and type of direct and overall reports) ArialNo direct reports, but expecting a technical leader. ArialPrincipal Accountabilities and Tasks: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 This person will be a key = member of a small team responsible for successfully specifying, deploying, and maintaining computer and communications infrastructure in an environment currently numbering over 300 servers and network devices.=A0 This is a lead technical role responsible for defining, implementing and maintaining: production server and OS platforms, security standards on both OS and network technologies, data protection, production network and system deployments, power systems, operating system and middleware standards, remote management tools, redundancy and resiliency and high availability systems, system maintenance practices, auditing, intrusion detection.=A0 This is an architectural level position but the expectation is that it is much more hands on than a traditional systems architect. ArialEducation & Qualifications: =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ArialBSCS or related, Masters. A PhD would be of interest. Many years experience in computer and network infrastructure.=A0 Many years proven experience in a senior technical decision maker role.=A0 Several years experience as a Unix/Linux system administrator.=A0 Linux/Unix and Windows networking experience, open source software experience, network architecture experience, superior written and verbal communications skills, knowledge and/or support of software development = process. ArialSkills and Experience: = =A0=A0 Arial This person must have demonstrated increasing responsibility in computer infrastructure and networking technology with experience in a lights out production revenue-producing environment. ArialThe position requires a strong blend of intelligence, diplomacy, quickness, agile communications, technical depth and breadth, industry knowledge and experience that quickly gains respect and trust of staff inside and outside the department. = --Apple-Mail-6-270300714-- From jim@well.com Sat Apr 01 15:46:04 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:49794) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FPpmm-0004uj-HP for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 15:46:03 -0800 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-31-82.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.31.82]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k31NjWhb012268 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:45:32 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:48:13 -0800 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88, clamav-milter version 0.87 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8-271853104 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 17:54:50 -0800 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, March 27 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 23:46:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 84948 Lines: 2932 --Apple-Mail-8-271853104 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: Marsee Henon > Date: March 27, 2006 11:40:30 AM PST > To: jim@well.com > Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, March 27 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders > March 27, 2006 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > -UG Discount Gets Better--Buy Two or More Books get 35% Off > -Going to LinuxWorld Boston? > -Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? > -Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Banner, Get a Free Book > -Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book > -Promotional Material Available > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book Info > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Review Books are Available > Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- > send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on > your request. Let me know if you need your book by a certain date. > Allow at least four weeks for shipping. > > > ***Please Send Copies of Your Book Reviews > Email me a copy of your newsletter or book review. > For tips and suggestions on writing book reviews, go to: > > > ***Group Purchases with Better Discounts are Available > Please let me know if you are interested and I can put you in > touch with our sales department. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > General News or Inquiries > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***UG Discount Gets Better--Buy Two or More Books get 35% Off > User Group members get 30% off single book orders, and 35% off on > orders of two or more books. And orders over $29.95 also qualify > for free shipping in the US. This discount is available on O'Reilly, > No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, > SitePoint, and Syngress books. Just use code DSUG. > > > ***Going to LinuxWorld Boston? > Send me an email and let me know. > > > ***Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? > We can include it in the news section of our user group page and RSS > Feed. Send me a short description and a URL. > > > ***Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Banner, Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on = their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > O=E2=80=99Reilly Where 2.0 conference, I will send you the O'Reilly = book of =20 > your > choice. > > Where 2.0 Banners: > > > > ***Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner, Get a Free Book > We're looking for user groups to display our conference banner on = their > web sites. If you send me the link to your group's site with our > MySQL Users Conference banner, I will send you the O'Reilly book > of your choice. > > MySQL Users Conference: > > > > ***Promotional Material Available: > The following items are available for your next meeting. (Let me know > the item and the amount you'd like): > > -LinuxWorld Conference & Expo Passes, Boston, MA--April 4-6 (Postcards > or PDF available) > -MAKE Magazine Volume 5 (limit one copy per group) > -30% UG Discount bookmarks > -MySQL Conference brochures > -Where 2.0 Conference brochures = > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > O'Reilly News for User Group Members > March 27, 2006 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Book News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Ajax Hacks > -Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks > -The Art of SQL > -Best of Ruby Quiz > -Don't Get Burned on eBay > -The eBay Price Guide > -Fixing Windows XP Annoyances > -Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity > -Flash 8: The Missing Manual > -Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition > -Head Rush Ajax > -How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 > -Intermediate Perl > -iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual > -iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual > -ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention > -The JavaScript Anthology > -Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete > -Mind Performance Hacks > -Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason > -MySQL Stored Procedure Programming > -Photoshop CS2 RAW > -Practical VoIP Security > -Practices of an Agile Developer > -UML 2.0 Pocket Reference > -Visual Basic 2005 Express > -Visual C# 2005 Black Book > -Window Seat > -Write Great Code, Volume 2 > -XAML in a Nutshell > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Upcoming Events > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Sebastian Bergmann("PHPUnit Pocket Guide"), PHP Usergroup Wurzburg, > Wurzburg, Bayern--Mar 30 > -Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Commonwealth Club, San Jose, CA--Mar 30 > -Digital Portfolios with Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital > Photography"), Pacifica, CA--Apr 1 > -Visit O'Reilly at LinuxWorld--Boston, MA--Apr 4-6 > -Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Institute for Applied and Professional > Ethics, Athens, Ohio--Apr 7 > -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Wedding and Portrait Photographers, > International Convention, Las Vegas, NV--Apr 9 > -Robbie Allen ("Windows Server 2003 Security Cookbook"), the 58th =20 > Annual > Conference on World Affairs, Boulder, CO--Apr 10 > -O'Reilly authors at Exchange Connections 2006, Orlando, FL--Apr 10 > -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, > Minneapolis, MN--Apr 11 > -Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--Apr 22-23 > -Tony Bove ("Just Say No To Microsoft"), Cody's Books, > San Francisco, CA--April 12 > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Conference News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Where 2.0 Registration is Open > -MySQL Registration is Open > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > News > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > -Tim O'Reilly Quizzes Bill Gates at MIX06 > -O'Reilly Authors Get Jolted > -New Rough Cuts Title: Atlas > -Secure Your Linux Server > -Autofilled PHP Forms > -What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source > -Digital Bookmark Mods > -Getting Started with Quartz Composer > -Using the MultiView and Wizard Controls in ASP.NET 2.0 > -Directions in Windows Scripting > -Profiting Without Frequently Updated Content > -Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard > -Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1 > -What Is Java? > -The Internet of Things > -The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats > -Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords > -Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos > -Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect > -Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Book News > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Did you know you can request a free book to review for your > group? Ask your group leader for more information. > > For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: > > > Don't forget, you can receive 30% off a single title or 35% off two or > more O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic =20 > Bookshelf, > SitePoint, or Syngress books you purchase directly from O'Reilly. > Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. > > > ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at > least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer > applies to US delivery addresses in the fifty states and Puerto Rico. > For more details, go to: > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > New Releases > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ***Ajax Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101694 > Want to build next-generation web applications today? This book can =20= > show > you how. A smart collection of 100 insider tips and tricks, "Ajax =20 > Hacks" > covers the finer points of Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, or Ajax as > it's known. Learn leading-edge web development tasks like how to =20 > display > Weather.com data, scrape stock quotes, fetch postal codes and much, =20= > much > more > > > > ***Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks > Publisher: PC Publishing > ISBN: 1870775090 > This book enables you to create your ideal Live 5 template; get the =20= > most > from Live's MIDI features; find audio editing workrounds within Live; > prepare a Live set for performance; use Live with other music = software; > and includes interviews with high-profile Live users. > > > > ***The Art of SQL > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596008945 > Enterprises throughout the world are confronted with exploding volumes > of data, and many IT departments are looking for quick solutions. This > insightful book demonstrates that since SQL code may run for 5 to 10 > years, and run on different hardware, it must be fast and sound from =20= > the > start. Expert Stephane Faroult offers SQL best practices and = relational > theory that force you to focus on strategy rather than specifics. > > > > ***Best of Ruby Quiz > Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf > ISBN: 0976694077 > Sharpen your Ruby programming skills with twenty-five challenging > problems from Ruby Quiz. Whether you have faithfully followed the =20 > weekly > online Ruby Quiz challenges or are just looking for some practical =20 > tests > of your Ruby skills, this book delivers. Read the problems, work out a > solution, and compare your solution with others. Read about the > interesting issues of each problem. Writing code and reading code are > still the only ways to truly gain skill with a programming language, =20= > and > within these pages you can do both quickly and easily. > > > > ***Don't Get Burned on eBay > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101783 > Don't Get Burned on eBay offers relevant lessons based on real-life > stories posted on eBay's Answer Center. With sharp, witty rhetoric, > veteran eBay user Shauna Wright shows eBay veterans and newcomers = alike > how to avoid those nasty scenarios, and how to pull themselves out of > the muck if they've already fallen in. > > > > ***The eBay Price Guide > Publisher: No Starch > ISBN: 1593270550 > A one-stop shop for pricing information and tips for successful buying > and selling on eBay. Sellers learn how to price their items > competitively to attract more customers, while buyers learn which > categories tend to be overpriced and where they can find the best > bargains. Fun stories, statistics, lists, and eBay trivia round out = the > book. A must-have for the serious eBayer. > > > > ***Fixing Windows XP Annoyances > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100531 > Inspired by author David Karp's "Windows XP Annoyances for Geeks," = this > all-new tome pulls together tips, tricks, insider workarounds, and =20 > fixes > for PC novices and pros, in a handy, accessible Q&A format that lets =20= > you > find the solutions in a flash. "Fixing Windows XP Annoyances" will not > only increase your productivity, but lower your blood pressure. > > > > ***Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102232 > This book teaches Flash design rather than simply Flash itself. With a > standalone series of walkthroughs and tutorials for Flash beginners > coming from a graphics field, Flash is covered in the context of > real-world projects. Rather than simply learn a Flash tool, > you learn which areas of Flash are important, and which are less so, > by seeing how typical content is actually created. And rather > than a text-heavy approach, this graphically rich book leads you =20 > through > hands-on examples by illustration. > > > > ***Flash 8: The Missing Manual > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101376 > Macromedia's Flash 8 is the world's premier program for adding =20 > animation > to web sites. But Flash isn't intuitive. And it doesn't come with a > manual. This hands-on guide to today's hottest web design tool is = aimed > at non-developers, and it teaches you how to translate your ideas into > great Web content. Whether you want to learn the basics or unleash the > program's true power, "Flash 8: The Missing Manual" is the ideal > instructor. > > > > ***Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100191 > Sure, you know how to "Google it" when you're searching for something =20= > on > the Web. But did you know how much more you could achieve by clicking > beyond the "Google Search" button? Our fully updated and expanded > edition to "Google: The Missing Manual" covers everything you need to =20= > know > to become a Google guru--including all the new, cool, and often > overlooked features that make Google the world's best search engine. > > > > ***Head Rush Ajax > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102259 > "Head Rush Ajax" takes the reader beyond basic web development with > DHTML and JavaScript and explains how asynchronous data requests and > more powerful event models can be used in the Ajax methodology > > > > ***How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597492515 > Microsoft Operations Manager (MOM) is a network monitoring tool that > provides enterprise-class event and performance management for Windows > Server System technologies. MOM's event and performance management =20 > tools > discover problems before system administrators would ever find them, > thereby enabling administrators to lower their costs of operations and > simplify management of their Windows Server System infrastructure. MOM > can notify system administrators of overloaded processors, depleted > memory, or failed network connections affecting their Windows servers > long before these problems bother users. > > > > ***Intermediate Perl > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102062 > Perl programmers need a clear roadmap for improving their skills. > "Intermediate Perl" teaches a working knowledge of Perl's objects, > references, and modules--all of which make the language so versatile > and effective. Written by the authors of the bestselling Llama book, > "Learning Perl," this guide offers a gentle but thorough introduction =20= > to > intermediate programming in Perl. Topics include packages and > namespaces, references and scoping, manipulating complex data > structures, writing and using modules, package implementation, and =20 > using > CPAN. > > > > ***iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059652725X > Along with its host of new features, iPhoto 6 can handle as many as > 250,000 images. It's incredible, and Apple makes it sound so easy. But > you can still get lost, especially if you're new to iPhoto. Not to > worry. The latest edition of this popular book gives you plenty of > undocumented tips & tricks for taking advantage of the new version and > every feature packed into it. > > > > ***iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 059652675X > An iPod is many things to many people, but it can be much more than =20= > most > people realize. That's where this new edition comes in. Like the iPod > itself, this book is a long-running bestseller with a wealth of useful > information for any iPod user. This edition features the new Video =20 > iPod, > iTunes 6, ways to use an iPod as an external drive or personal > organizer, and much more. > > > > ***ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597490563 > Over the last seven years, Internet Security Systems (ISS) elite =20 > X-Force > has discovered more high-risk vulnerabilities than all other research > groups and vendors combined, including the vulnerability that led to =20= > the > recent, widespread Zotob worm. For the first time ever, follow the > X-Force team as they analyze potential vulnerabilities and security > solutions for cutting edge technologies and emerging attack > methodologies. > > > > ***The JavaScript Anthology > Publisher:SitePoint > ISBN: 0975240269 > The "JavaScript Anthology: 101 Essential Tips, Tricks, and Hacks" is a > compilation of customizable solutions to the most common JavaScript > questions and problems, including solutions using AJAX. All the code = in > the book is thoroughly tested, best practice, and standards-compliant =20= > to > ensure that will work across different browsers and platforms. > > > > ***Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete > Publisher: Paraglyph > ISBN: 1933097132 > Modding is the new craze that has taken the gaming world by storm. And > Half-Life 2 provides the premier game engine that modders all around =20= > the > world are using to enhance the highly popular Half-Life game and = create > exciting new custom game features. As many modders like to say, "The > possibilities are endless." This unique book shows all Half-Life 2 = fans > everything they need to know to work with the powerful game engine and > customize their own games using clever mapping, modding, and modeling > techniques. With "Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete," game fans > will get a chance to progressively expand their skills at mapping and > modding. This is a one-of-a-kind book, jam-packed with insider tips = and > techniques by a leading Half-Life 2 modding expert. > > > > ***Mind Performance Hacks > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596101538 > "Mind Performance Hacks" provides real-life tips and tools for > overclocking your brain and becoming a better thinker. In the > increasingly frenetic pace of today's information economy, managing =20= > your > life requires hacking your brain. With this book, you'll cut through =20= > the > clutter and tune up your brain intentionally, safely, and = productively. > > > > ***Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason > Publisher: PC Publishing > ISBN: 1870775147 > Ideal for everyone from beginners to experienced users, the book = covers > essentials like choosing a computer, setting it up for audio work and > optimizing Reason for maximum performance. It contains detailed > workshops on eight major musical genres--Hip Hop, Drum & Bass, Dub, > House, Techno, Trip Hop, Trance, and Club. > > > > ***MySQL Stored Procedure Programming > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100892 > MySQL Stored Procedure Programming covers a lot of ground. The book > starts with a thorough introduction to stored procedures programming =20= > and > functions, covering the fundamentals of data types, operators, and =20 > using > SQL in stored procedures. You'll learn how to build and maintain = stored > programs--covering transactions, stored functions, and triggers--and > how to call and use MySQL-based stored procedures in a variety of > languages, including PHP, Perl, Python, .NET, and Java. This book, > destined to be the bible of stored procedure development, is a = resource > that no real MySQL programmer can afford to do without. > > > > ***Photoshop CS2 RAW > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596008511 > The RAW file format is the uncompressed data file captured by a = digital > camera's electronic sensor. Because RAW files remain virtually =20 > untouched > by in-camera processing, working with them brings greater flexibility > and control to the editing process-if you know how to use them. Adobe > Photoshop CS2 has emerged as the best way to edit RAW images, and > Photoshop CS2 RAW is dedicated to working with RAW in Photoshop. This > comprehensive guide explores the entire RAW process, focusing > extensively on Photoshop editing techniques targeted to professionals > and photo hobbyists alike. > > > > ***Practical VoIP Security > Publisher: Syngress > ISBN: 1597490601 > After struggling for years, you finally think you've got your network > secured from malicious hackers and obnoxious spammers. Just when you > think it's safe to go back into the water, VoIP finally catches on. = Now > your newly converged network is vulnerable to DoS attacks, hacked > gateways leading to unauthorized free calls, call eavesdropping, > malicious call redirection, and spam over Internet Telephony (SPIT). > This book details both VoIP attacks and defense techniques and tools. > > > > ***Practices of an Agile Developer > Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf > ISBN: 097451408X > These are the proven, effective agile practices that will make you a > better developer. You'll learn pragmatic ways of approaching the > development process and your personal coding techniques. You'll learn > about your own attitudes, issues with working on a team, and how to =20= > best > manage your learning, all in an iterative, incremental, agile style. > You'll see how to apply each practice, and what benefits you can =20 > expect. > Bottom line: this book will make you a better developer. > > > > ***UML 2.0 Pocket Reference > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596102089 > Globe-trotting travelers have long resorted to handy, pocket-size > dictionaries as an aid to communicating across the language barrier. =20= > Dan > Pilone's "UML 2.0 Pocket Reference" is just such an aid for on-the-go > developers who need to converse in the Unified Modeling Language = (UML). > Use this book to decipher the many UML diagrams you'll encounter on = the > path to delivering a modern software system. > > > > ***Visual Basic 2005 Express > Publisher: No Starch > ISBN: 1593270593 > A true guide for beginners, "Visual Basic 2005 Express" starts off = with > a short primer on how programming works, regardless of the programming > language used. Once readers understand the general principles behind > computer programming, the book then teaches readers how to use the > Visual Basic Express program itself and how to write programs using = the > Visual Basic language. > > > > ***Visual C# 2005 Black Book > Publisher: Paraglyph > ISBN: 1933097167 > "Visual C# 2005 Black Book" is one of the first books that presents in > detail the new specifications of the language at length. The book = takes > the reader through the key changes to Visual Studio and the critical =20= > new > programming features of Visual C# 2005. Black Books provide a =20 > two-tiered > approach--the In-Depth sections provide full explanation of all = aspects > of the technology and the Immediate Solutions section feature hands-on > information and troubleshooting techniques. > > > > ***Window Seat > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596100833 > "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" is > a complete view of a creative project from the artist's perspective. > Julieanne Kost, a Photoshop and creative thinking guru, has taken her > own experience shooting images out of airplane windows to create a > unique seminar in three parts: a manifesto of ways to stay creatively > alive; a portfolio of stunning photographs, with commentaries =20 > describing > her experiences and thought process; and a technical appendix that > includes the details of the images were shot, manipulated, and = prepared > for printing. > > > > ***Write Great Code, Volume 2 > Publisher: No Starch > ISBN: 1593270658 > The second volume in the "Write Great Code" series supplies critical > information that today's computer science students don't often get in > class: How to carefully choose their high-level language statements to > produce efficient code. The book teaches software engineers how > compilers translate high-level language statements and data structures > into machine code, so they can make informed choices and produce = better > code without giving up any productivity and portability benefits. > > > > ***XAML in a Nutshell > Publisher: O'Reilly > ISBN: 0596526733 > The Windows Vista operating system will support applications that =20 > employ > clear, stunning and active graphics now used by computer games. The > cornerstone for building these user interfaces is XAML, the XML-based > markup language that works with Windows Presentation Foundation, =20 > Vista's > new graphics subsystem. This book teaches you everything necessary to > design the new generation of user interfaces and .NET applications, =20= > with > plenty of examples to get you started. > > > > ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available > The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you > subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus > four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this > great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of = four. > Subscribe at: > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Upcoming Events > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ***For more events, please see: > http://events.oreilly.com/ > > ***Sebastian Bergmann ("PHPUnit Pocket Guide"), PHP Usergroup = Wurzburg, > Wurzburg, Bayern, Germany--Mar 30 > Author Sebastian Bergmann gives a presentation on PHPUnit. > > > > ***Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Commonwealth Club, San Jose, CA--Mar =20= > 30 > Author Dan Gillmor discusses "Who Needs Ink?" at the Commonwealth = Club. > > > =09 > ***Digital Portfolios with Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on = Digital > Photography"), Pacifica, CA--Apr 1 > Photographer and author Stephen Johnson presents this one-day seminar. > > > > ***Visit O'Reilly at LinuxWorld--Boston, MA--Apr 4-6 > Be sure to visit our booth (#412) to peruse our new and classic Linux > titles and more. > > > > ***Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Institute for Applied and = Professional > Ethics, Athens, Ohio--Apr 7 > Author Dan Gillmor is presenting the opening keynote address on "We = the > Media." > event=3D2006_schedule&record=3D20> > > > ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Wedding and Portrait Photographers, > International Convention, Las Vegas, NV--Apr 9 > Author Julieanne Kost presents "Adobe Photoshop CS2 Welcome Aboard." > pgm=3Dplatform> > > > ***Robbie Allen ("Windows Server 2003 Security Cookbook"), the 58th > Annual Conference on World Affairs, Boulder, CO--Apr 10 > Author Robbie Allen is one of the speakers at this conference. > > > > ***O'Reilly authors at Exchange Connections 2006, Orlando, FL--Apr 10 > Meet authors Devin Ganger, Missy Koslosky, and Paul Robichaux = (Exchange > Server Cookbook) at 3:30PM in the conference bookstore, hosted by > Digital Guru. > > > > ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar, > Minneapolis,MN--Apr 11 > Author Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book") gives a three-hour comprehensive > overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional > photographer. > digital_asset_management_seminar.html#anchorpixelcash> > > > ***Tony Bove ("Just Say No To Microsoft"), Cody's Books, > San Francisco, CA--April 12 > Join No Starch Author Tony Bove to discuss his latest book. > > > > ***Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--Apr 22-23 > Join us for MAKE magazine's first ever Maker Faire=E2=80=94a hands-on = event > featuring Makers whose science and technology projects will amaze you > and ignite your imagination. Meet expert Makers and MAKE contributors, > hear from O'Reilly's Hacks author, attend DIY Tutorials, explore DIY > projects and demonstrations, and see the Ultimate Workshop. This event > takes place at San Mateo County Fairgrounds. > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Conference News > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > ***Where 2.0 Early Registration is Open > The Where 2.0 Conference brings together the people, projects, and > issues leading the charge into the location-based technology frontier. > Join the developers, innovators, and business people behind the new = era > of geospatial technology as they come together--because everything > happens somewhere, and it's all happening here. > > Where 2.0 Conference, June 13-14, 2006 > Fairmont Hotel, San Jose, CA > > > User Group members who register before April 24, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "whr06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > > ***MySQL Users Conference > Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest > gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It's the only event > where you'll be able to join the core MySQL development team and over > 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one > roof. > > MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 > Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA > > > User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double > discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off > the early registration price. > > To register for the conference, go to: > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > News =46rom O'Reilly & Beyond > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > --------------------- > General News > --------------------- > ***Tim O'Reilly Quizzes Bill Gates at MIX06 > Watch the screencast here: > > > > ***O'Reilly Authors Get Jolted > O'Reilly authors won three of four Jolt Product Excellence Awards. > The winners are: > *"Prefactoring," by Ken Pugh > > *"The Art of Project Management," by Scott Berkun > > *"Producing Open Source Software," by Karl Fogel > > > > ***Latest Title Available on Rough Cuts: "Atlas" > "Atlas Rough Cuts" provides experienced web developers with an = exciting > hands-on tour of Atlas--the new development environment that uses both > Ajax and ASP.NET. Beginning with an introduction to the technologies > behind it all, including JavaScript, XMLHttpRequest, DHTML and related > topics, author Christian Wenz shows readers how to create Ajax-style > applications with the Atlas framework, including data binding and XML > Web Services. The book imparts important fundamental knowledge in a > concise reference-like way, making the concepts of this new framework > accessible to developers of various technical levels. > > > For more information, go to: > > > --------------------- > Open Source > --------------------- > ***Secure Your Linux Server > Linux is a powerful and popular operating system kernel. That =20 > popularity > means you might be running it even if you're not a dedicated Unix > administrator or high-powered programmer. That doesn't mean that > rock-solid security is out of your reach, though. Aaron Brazell shows > how to make Red Hat 9 (and other Linux distributions) much more secure > in a few easy steps. > server.html> > > > ***Autofilled PHP Forms > PHP makes handling interactive web pages easy--but when you have large > forms to fill out, errors to handle, and lots of data to pass back and > forth, you can make your life easier by making PHP fill in all the = form > values for you. Gavin Andresen shows how to make forms autopopulate =20= > from > PHP arrays. > > > > ***What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source > Many corporate projects fail to produce quality software, yet many > large-scale open source projects succeed, and under much more = difficult > conditions: no budget, a geographically distributed team, and a > volunteer workforce, to name a few. So how do open source project = teams > ensure success? Andrew Stellman and Jennifer Greene introduce five =20 > basic > principles in their new book, "Applied Software Project Management," =20= > that > will help any project succeed, open source or proprietary. The authors > detail these principles in this article. > learn-from-open-source.html> > > --------------------- > Mac > --------------------- > ***Digital Bookmark Mods > Matthew Russell shows you how to add better bookmarks to your audio > books, add slideshows to your music files, create enhanced podcasts, =20= > and > share your favorite mods with others--even if they're on protected > audio. > mod.html> > > > ***Getting Started with Quartz Composer > Apple's free developer tool collection contains many overlooked gems. > These aren't limited to programming-specific utilities. Take Quartz > Composer, for example. It's a free utility that can bring new life and > interest to your iMovie projects. In this article, you'll learn how to > use your own pictures to create simple, but flashy animation. > = > > --------------------- > Windows/.NET > --------------------- > ***Using the MultiView and Wizard Controls in ASP.NET 2.0 > Need to collect data from Web pages? ASP.NET 2.0 makes it easy, with =20= > the > use of MultiView and Wizard controls. Wei-Meng Lee, author of "ASP.NET > 2.0: A Developer's Notebook" shows you how to take advantage of them. > and-wizard-controls-in-aspnet-20.html> > > > ***Directions in Windows Scripting > Administering Windows platforms using scripts can be a big = productivity > booster or a headache. Mitch Tulloch, author of "Windows Server = Hacks," > sits down with Don Jones, a Microsoft MVP and the creator of > ScriptingAnswers.com, for a no-holds barred interview about the future > of scripting. > in-windows-scripting.html> > > --------------------- > Web > --------------------- > ***Profiting Without Frequently Updated Content > Do you think you need to constantly update content to have a = successful > Website that generates AdSense revenue month after month? Think again. > frequently-updated-content/> > > > ***Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard > Tired of building quick-and-dirty sites for your family and friends =20= > just > so they won't produce their own FrontPage monstrosity? Tell them to = try > Google Page Creator instead. > just-too-hard/> > > --------------------- > Java > --------------------- > ***Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1 > Zeroconf, also known as Bonjour and previously known as Rendezvous, > offers a robust system for self-networking that has been adopted by =20= > many > applications. With a provided Java API, now it's easy to make = "Zeroconf > applications hop platforms. In this excerpt from Zero Configuration > Networking: The Definitive Guide," Stuart Cheshire and Daniel H. > Steinberg show how to register a service with Zeroconf. > > > > ***What Is Java > Everyone knows what Java is, right? Interpreted code, applets, > proprietary, and slow. Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. In its second > decade, it's time to re-evaluate Java: the language and the virtual > machine are going their own ways, its open source sub-community is > vibrant and independent, and developers are taking the best ideas from > other languages and frameworks and bringing them to Java. In this > article, ONJava editor Chris Adamson tries to reset old assumptions > about Java to fit modern realities. > > > --------------------- > Podcasts > --------------------- > ***The Internet of Things > This week, Bruce Sterling's Emerging Technology keynote on "The =20 > Internet > of Things" is the sole segment in our program. (DTF 03-20-2006: 30 > minutes 13 seconds) > future.html> > > > ***The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats > Peter Cochrane looks at the future of telephony and handheld devices, > James Duncan Davidson talks about his switch from film to digital > photography, and Simon Phipps explains the importance of open formats > backed up by open source software. (DTF 03-13-2006: 26 minutes 30 > seconds) > future.html> > > --------------------- > Digital Media > --------------------- > ***Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords > The explosion of digital imaging has left professional and serious > amateur photographers drowning in photographs, with little guidance on > how to store, sort and organize them. In this excerpt from "The DAM =20= > Book," > Peter Krogh shows you expert techniques for applying ratings and > keywords so you can begin to take control of your digital photo =20 > library. > = > > > ***Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos > Composer Wayne Lytle's custom software transforms musical notes into > jaw-dropping 3D animations. The resulting DVDs have sold tens of > thousands of copies. Watch excerpts here and learn how Lytle turned = his > digital pipe dream into a thriving business. > videos.html> > > > ***Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect > SitePoint's first-ever video tutorial shows you step-by-step how to > create starburst effects in Photoshop. > starburst-effect/> > > --------------------- > MAKE > --------------------- > ***Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23 > Join the creators of MAKE magazine, the MythBusters, and thousands of > tech DIY enthusiasts, crafters, educators, tinkerers, hobbyists, =20 > science > clubs, students, and authors at MAKE's first ever Maker Faire! > > Meet all kinds of people who make amazing things in garages, = basements, > and backyards for inspiration, know-how, and spirited mischief-making. > An incredible learning experience for the entire family, students of =20= > all > ages and their teachers are welcome. > > > > ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: > > > > Until next time-- > > Marsee Henon > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > O'Reilly > 1005 Gravenstein Highway North > Sebastopol, CA 95472 > http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > --Apple-Mail-8-271853104 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Begin forwarded message: 0000,0000,0000From: Marsee Henon < 0000,0000,0000Date: March 27, 2006 11:40:30 AM PST 0000,0000,0000To: jim@well.com 0000,0000,0000Subject: Newsletter from O'Reilly UG Program, March 27 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D O'Reilly UG Program News--Just for User Group Leaders March 27, 2006 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -UG Discount Gets Better--Buy Two or More Books get 35% Off -Going to LinuxWorld Boston? -Do You Have Something Newsworthy to Share? -Put Up an O'Reilly Where 2.0 Banner, Get a Free Book -Put Up a MySQL Users Conference Banner Get a Free Book -Promotional Material Available ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book Info ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Review Books are Available=20 Copies of our books are available for your members to review-- send me an email and please include the book's ISBN number on=20 your request. 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(Let me know the item and the amount you'd like): -LinuxWorld Conference & Expo Passes, Boston, MA--April 4-6 (Postcards or PDF available) -MAKE Magazine Volume 5 (limit one copy per group) -30% UG Discount bookmarks -MySQL Conference brochures < -Where 2.0 Conference brochures < =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D O'Reilly News for User Group Members March 27, 2006 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ---------------------------------------------------------------- Book News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Ajax Hacks -Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks -The Art of SQL -Best of Ruby Quiz -Don't Get Burned on eBay -The eBay Price Guide -Fixing Windows XP Annoyances -Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity -Flash 8: The Missing Manual -Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition -Head Rush Ajax -How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 -Intermediate Perl -iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual -iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual -ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention=20 -The JavaScript Anthology -Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete -Mind Performance Hacks -Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason -MySQL Stored Procedure Programming -Photoshop CS2 RAW -Practical VoIP Security -Practices of an Agile Developer -UML 2.0 Pocket Reference -Visual Basic 2005 Express -Visual C# 2005 Black Book -Window Seat -Write Great Code, Volume 2 -XAML in a Nutshell ---------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Events ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Sebastian Bergmann("PHPUnit Pocket Guide"), PHP Usergroup Wurzburg, Wurzburg, Bayern--Mar 30 -Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Commonwealth Club, San Jose, CA--Mar 30 -Digital Portfolios with Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography"), Pacifica, CA--Apr 1 -Visit O'Reilly at LinuxWorld--Boston, MA--Apr 4-6 -Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Institute for Applied and Professional Ethics, Athens, Ohio--Apr 7 -Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Wedding and Portrait Photographers, International Convention, Las Vegas, NV--Apr 9 -Robbie Allen ("Windows Server 2003 Security Cookbook"), the 58th Annual Conference on World Affairs, Boulder, CO--Apr 10 -O'Reilly authors at Exchange Connections 2006, Orlando, FL--Apr 10 -Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar,=20 Minneapolis, MN--Apr 11 -Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--Apr 22-23 -Tony Bove ("Just Say No To Microsoft"), Cody's Books,=20 San Francisco, CA--April 12 ---------------------------------------------------------------- Conference News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Where 2.0 Registration is Open -MySQL Registration is Open ---------------------------------------------------------------- News ---------------------------------------------------------------- -Tim O'Reilly Quizzes Bill Gates at MIX06 -O'Reilly Authors Get Jolted -New Rough Cuts Title: Atlas -Secure Your Linux Server -Autofilled PHP Forms -What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source -Digital Bookmark Mods -Getting Started with Quartz Composer -Using the MultiView and Wizard Controls in ASP.NET 2.0 -Directions in Windows Scripting -Profiting Without Frequently Updated Content -Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard -Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1 -What Is Java? -The Internet of Things -The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats -Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords -Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos -Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect -Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Book News =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Did you know you can request a free book to review for your group? Ask your group leader for more information. For book review writing tips and suggestions, go to: < Don't forget, you can receive 30% off a single title or 35% off two or more O'Reilly, No Starch, Paraglyph, PC Publishing, Pragmatic Bookshelf, SitePoint, or Syngress books you purchase directly from O'Reilly. Just use code DSUG when ordering online or by phone 800-998-9938. < ***Free ground shipping is available for online orders of at=20 least $29.95 that go to a single address. This offer=20 applies to US delivery addresses in the fifty states and Puerto Rico. For more details, go to: < ---------------------------------------------------------------- New Releases ---------------------------------------------------------------- ***Ajax Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101694 Want to build next-generation web applications today? This book can show you how. A smart collection of 100 insider tips and tricks, "Ajax Hacks" covers the finer points of Asynchronous JavaScript and XML, or Ajax as it's known. Learn leading-edge web development tasks like how to display Weather.com data, scrape stock quotes, fetch postal codes and much, much more < ***Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775090 This book enables you to create your ideal Live 5 template; get the most from Live's MIDI features; find audio editing workrounds within Live; prepare a Live set for performance; use Live with other music software; and includes interviews with high-profile Live users. < ***The Art of SQL Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008945 Enterprises throughout the world are confronted with exploding volumes of data, and many IT departments are looking for quick solutions. This insightful book demonstrates that since SQL code may run for 5 to 10 years, and run on different hardware, it must be fast and sound from the start. Expert Stephane Faroult offers SQL best practices and relational theory that force you to focus on strategy rather than specifics. < ***Best of Ruby Quiz Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf ISBN: 0976694077 Sharpen your Ruby programming skills with twenty-five challenging problems from Ruby Quiz. Whether you have faithfully followed the weekly online Ruby Quiz challenges or are just looking for some practical tests of your Ruby skills, this book delivers. Read the problems, work out a solution, and compare your solution with others. Read about the interesting issues of each problem. Writing code and reading code are still the only ways to truly gain skill with a programming language, and within these pages you can do both quickly and easily. < ***Don't Get Burned on eBay Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101783 Don't Get Burned on eBay offers relevant lessons based on real-life stories posted on eBay's Answer Center. With sharp, witty rhetoric, veteran eBay user Shauna Wright shows eBay veterans and newcomers alike how to avoid those nasty scenarios, and how to pull themselves out of the muck if they've already fallen in. < ***The eBay Price Guide Publisher: No Starch ISBN: 1593270550 A one-stop shop for pricing information and tips for successful buying and selling on eBay. Sellers learn how to price their items competitively to attract more customers, while buyers learn which categories tend to be overpriced and where they can find the best bargains. Fun stories, statistics, lists, and eBay trivia round out the book. A must-have for the serious eBayer. < ***Fixing Windows XP Annoyances Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100531 Inspired by author David Karp's "Windows XP Annoyances for Geeks," this all-new tome pulls together tips, tricks, insider workarounds, and fixes for PC novices and pros, in a handy, accessible Q&A format that lets you find the solutions in a flash. "Fixing Windows XP Annoyances" will not only increase your productivity, but lower your blood pressure.=20 < ***Flash 8: Projects for Learning Animation and Interactivity Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102232 This book teaches Flash design rather than simply Flash itself. With a standalone series of walkthroughs and tutorials for Flash beginners coming from a graphics field, Flash is covered in the context of real-world projects. Rather than simply learn a Flash tool, you learn which areas of Flash are important, and which are less so, by seeing how typical content is actually created. And rather than a text-heavy approach, this graphically rich book leads you through hands-on examples by illustration. < ***Flash 8: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101376 Macromedia's Flash 8 is the world's premier program for adding animation to web sites. But Flash isn't intuitive. And it doesn't come with a manual. This hands-on guide to today's hottest web design tool is aimed at non-developers, and it teaches you how to translate your ideas into great Web content. Whether you want to learn the basics or unleash the program's true power, "Flash 8: The Missing Manual" is the ideal instructor. < ***Google: The Missing Manual, Second Edition Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100191 Sure, you know how to "Google it" when you're searching for something on the Web. But did you know how much more you could achieve by clicking beyond the "Google Search" button? Our fully updated and expanded edition to "Google: The Missing Manual" covers everything you need to know to become a Google guru--including all the new, cool, and often overlooked features that make Google the world's best search engine. < ***Head Rush Ajax Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102259 "Head Rush Ajax" takes the reader beyond basic web development with DHTML and JavaScript and explains how asynchronous data requests and more powerful event models can be used in the Ajax methodology < ***How to Cheat at Managing Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597492515 Microsoft Operations Manager (MOM) is a network monitoring tool that provides enterprise-class event and performance management for Windows Server System technologies. MOM's event and performance management tools discover problems before system administrators would ever find them, thereby enabling administrators to lower their costs of operations and simplify management of their Windows Server System infrastructure. MOM can notify system administrators of overloaded processors, depleted memory, or failed network connections affecting their Windows servers long before these problems bother users. < ***Intermediate Perl Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102062 Perl programmers need a clear roadmap for improving their skills. "Intermediate Perl" teaches a working knowledge of Perl's objects, references, and modules--all of which make the language so versatile and effective. Written by the authors of the bestselling Llama book, "Learning Perl," this guide offers a gentle but thorough introduction to intermediate programming in Perl. Topics include packages and namespaces, references and scoping, manipulating complex data structures, writing and using modules, package implementation, and using CPAN. < ***iPhoto 6: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652725X Along with its host of new features, iPhoto 6 can handle as many as 250,000 images. It's incredible, and Apple makes it sound so easy. But you can still get lost, especially if you're new to iPhoto. Not to worry. The latest edition of this popular book gives you plenty of undocumented tips & tricks for taking advantage of the new version and every feature packed into it. < ***iPod & iTunes: The Missing Manual Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 059652675X An iPod is many things to many people, but it can be much more than most people realize. That's where this new edition comes in. Like the iPod itself, this book is a long-running bestseller with a wealth of useful information for any iPod user. This edition features the new Video iPod, iTunes 6, ways to use an iPod as an external drive or personal organizer, and much more. < ***ISS X-Force: Next Generation Threat Analysis and Prevention=20 Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490563 Over the last seven years, Internet Security Systems (ISS) elite X-Force has discovered more high-risk vulnerabilities than all other research groups and vendors combined, including the vulnerability that led to the recent, widespread Zotob worm. For the first time ever, follow the X-Force team as they analyze potential vulnerabilities and security solutions for cutting edge technologies and emerging attack methodologies. < ***The JavaScript Anthology Publisher:SitePoint ISBN: 0975240269 The "JavaScript Anthology: 101 Essential Tips, Tricks, and Hacks" is a compilation of customizable solutions to the most common JavaScript questions and problems, including solutions using AJAX. All the code in the book is thoroughly tested, best practice, and standards-compliant to ensure that will work across different browsers and platforms. < ***Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete Publisher: Paraglyph ISBN: 1933097132 Modding is the new craze that has taken the gaming world by storm. And Half-Life 2 provides the premier game engine that modders all around the world are using to enhance the highly popular Half-Life game and create exciting new custom game features. As many modders like to say, "The possibilities are endless." This unique book shows all Half-Life 2 fans everything they need to know to work with the powerful game engine and customize their own games using clever mapping, modding, and modeling techniques. With "Mapping and Modding Half-Life 2 Complete," game fans will get a chance to progressively expand their skills at mapping and modding. This is a one-of-a-kind book, jam-packed with insider tips and techniques by a leading Half-Life 2 modding expert. < ***Mind Performance Hacks Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596101538 "Mind Performance Hacks" provides real-life tips and tools for overclocking your brain and becoming a better thinker. In the increasingly frenetic pace of today's information economy, managing your life requires hacking your brain. With this book, you'll cut through the clutter and tune up your brain intentionally, safely, and productively. < ***Music Projects with Propellerhead Reason Publisher: PC Publishing ISBN: 1870775147 Ideal for everyone from beginners to experienced users, the book covers essentials like choosing a computer, setting it up for audio work and optimizing Reason for maximum performance. It contains detailed workshops on eight major musical genres--Hip Hop, Drum & Bass, Dub, House, Techno, Trip Hop, Trance, and Club.=20 < ***MySQL Stored Procedure Programming Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100892 MySQL Stored Procedure Programming covers a lot of ground. The book starts with a thorough introduction to stored procedures programming and functions, covering the fundamentals of data types, operators, and using SQL in stored procedures. You'll learn how to build and maintain stored programs--covering transactions, stored functions, and triggers--and how to call and use MySQL-based stored procedures in a variety of languages, including PHP, Perl, Python, .NET, and Java. This book, destined to be the bible of stored procedure development, is a resource that no real MySQL programmer can afford to do without. < ***Photoshop CS2 RAW Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596008511 The RAW file format is the uncompressed data file captured by a digital camera's electronic sensor. Because RAW files remain virtually untouched by in-camera processing, working with them brings greater flexibility and control to the editing process-if you know how to use them. Adobe Photoshop CS2 has emerged as the best way to edit RAW images, and Photoshop CS2 RAW is dedicated to working with RAW in Photoshop. This comprehensive guide explores the entire RAW process, focusing extensively on Photoshop editing techniques targeted to professionals and photo hobbyists alike. < ***Practical VoIP Security Publisher: Syngress ISBN: 1597490601 After struggling for years, you finally think you've got your network secured from malicious hackers and obnoxious spammers. Just when you think it's safe to go back into the water, VoIP finally catches on. Now your newly converged network is vulnerable to DoS attacks, hacked gateways leading to unauthorized free calls, call eavesdropping, malicious call redirection, and spam over Internet Telephony (SPIT). This book details both VoIP attacks and defense techniques and tools. < ***Practices of an Agile Developer Publisher: Pragmatic Bookshelf ISBN: 097451408X These are the proven, effective agile practices that will make you a better developer. You'll learn pragmatic ways of approaching the development process and your personal coding techniques. You'll learn about your own attitudes, issues with working on a team, and how to best manage your learning, all in an iterative, incremental, agile style. You'll see how to apply each practice, and what benefits you can expect. Bottom line: this book will make you a better developer. < ***UML 2.0 Pocket Reference Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596102089 Globe-trotting travelers have long resorted to handy, pocket-size dictionaries as an aid to communicating across the language barrier. Dan Pilone's "UML 2.0 Pocket Reference" is just such an aid for on-the-go developers who need to converse in the Unified Modeling Language (UML). Use this book to decipher the many UML diagrams you'll encounter on the path to delivering a modern software system. < ***Visual Basic 2005 Express Publisher: No Starch ISBN: 1593270593 A true guide for beginners, "Visual Basic 2005 Express" starts off with a short primer on how programming works, regardless of the programming language used. Once readers understand the general principles behind computer programming, the book then teaches readers how to use the Visual Basic Express program itself and how to write programs using the Visual Basic language. < ***Visual C# 2005 Black Book Publisher: Paraglyph ISBN: 1933097167 "Visual C# 2005 Black Book" is one of the first books that presents in detail the new specifications of the language at length. The book takes the reader through the key changes to Visual Studio and the critical new programming features of Visual C# 2005. Black Books provide a two-tiered approach--the In-Depth sections provide full explanation of all aspects of the technology and the Immediate Solutions section feature hands-on information and troubleshooting techniques. < ***Window Seat Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596100833 "Window Seat: The Art of Digital Photography and Creative Thinking" is a complete view of a creative project from the artist's perspective. Julieanne Kost, a Photoshop and creative thinking guru, has taken her own experience shooting images out of airplane windows to create a unique seminar in three parts: a manifesto of ways to stay creatively alive; a portfolio of stunning photographs, with commentaries describing her experiences and thought process; and a technical appendix that includes the details of the images were shot, manipulated, and prepared for printing. < ***Write Great Code, Volume 2 Publisher: No Starch ISBN: 1593270658 The second volume in the "Write Great Code" series supplies critical information that today's computer science students don't often get in class: How to carefully choose their high-level language statements to produce efficient code. The book teaches software engineers how compilers translate high-level language statements and data structures into machine code, so they can make informed choices and produce better code without giving up any productivity and portability benefits. < ***XAML in a Nutshell Publisher: O'Reilly ISBN: 0596526733 The Windows Vista operating system will support applications that employ clear, stunning and active graphics now used by computer games. The cornerstone for building these user interfaces is XAML, the XML-based markup language that works with Windows Presentation Foundation, Vista's new graphics subsystem. This book teaches you everything necessary to design the new generation of user interfaces and .NET applications, with plenty of examples to get you started. < ***MAKE Magazine Subscriptions Available The annual subscription price for four issues is $34.95. When you subscribe with this link, you'll get a free issue--the first one plus four more for $34.95. So subscribe for yourself or friends with this great offer for charter subscribers: five volumes for the cost of four. Subscribe at: < =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Upcoming Events =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ***For more events, please see: http://events.oreilly.com/ ***Sebastian Bergmann ("PHPUnit Pocket Guide"), PHP Usergroup Wurzburg, Wurzburg, Bayern, Germany--Mar 30 Author Sebastian Bergmann gives a presentation on PHPUnit. < ***Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Commonwealth Club, San Jose, CA--Mar 30 Author Dan Gillmor discusses "Who Needs Ink?" at the Commonwealth Club. < =09 ***Digital Portfolios with Stephen Johnson ("Stephen Johnson on Digital Photography"), Pacifica, CA--Apr 1 Photographer and author Stephen Johnson presents this one-day seminar. < ***Visit O'Reilly at LinuxWorld--Boston, MA--Apr 4-6 Be sure to visit our booth (#412) to peruse our new and classic Linux titles and more. < ***Dan Gillmor ("We the Media"), Institute for Applied and Professional Ethics, Athens, Ohio--Apr 7 Author Dan Gillmor is presenting the opening keynote address on "We the Media." = < ***Julieanne Kost ("Window Seat"), Wedding and Portrait Photographers, International Convention, Las Vegas, NV--Apr 9 Author Julieanne Kost presents "Adobe Photoshop CS2 Welcome Aboard." = < ***Robbie Allen ("Windows Server 2003 Security Cookbook"), the 58th Annual Conference on World Affairs, Boulder, CO--Apr 10 Author Robbie Allen is one of the speakers at this conference. < ***O'Reilly authors at Exchange Connections 2006, Orlando, FL--Apr 10 Meet authors Devin Ganger, Missy Koslosky, and Paul Robichaux (Exchange Server Cookbook) at 3:30PM in the conference bookstore, hosted by Digital Guru. < ***Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book"), ASMP PixelCash Seminar,=20 Minneapolis,MN--Apr 11 Author Peter Krogh ("The DAM Book") gives a three-hour comprehensive overview of Digital Asset Management techniques for the professional photographer. = < ***Tony Bove ("Just Say No To Microsoft"), Cody's Books,=20 San Francisco, CA--April 12 Join No Starch Author Tony Bove to discuss his latest book. < ***Maker Faire, San Mateo, CA--Apr 22-23 Join us for MAKE magazine's first ever Maker Faire=E2=80=94a hands-on = event featuring Makers whose science and technology projects will amaze you and ignite your imagination. Meet expert Makers and MAKE contributors, hear from O'Reilly's Hacks author, attend DIY Tutorials, explore DIY projects and demonstrations, and see the Ultimate Workshop. This event takes place at San Mateo County Fairgrounds. < =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Conference News =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ***Where 2.0 Early Registration is Open The Where 2.0 Conference brings together the people, projects, and issues leading the charge into the location-based technology frontier. Join the developers, innovators, and business people behind the new era of geospatial technology as they come together--because everything=20 happens somewhere, and it's all happening here. Where 2.0 Conference, June 13-14, 2006 Fairmont Hotel, San Jose, CA < User Group members who register before April 24, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "whr06dsug" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < ***MySQL Users Conference Join us at the 2006 edition of the MySQL Users Conference, the largest gathering of MySQL developers, users, and DBAs. It's the only event where you'll be able to join the core MySQL development team and over 1000 users, open source innovators, and technology partners under one roof. MySQL Users Conference, April 24-27, 2006 Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA < User Group members who register before March 6, 2006 get a double discount. Use code "mys06dusg" when you register, and receive 15% off the early registration price. To register for the conference, go to: < =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D News =46rom O'Reilly & Beyond =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --------------------- General News --------------------- ***Tim O'Reilly Quizzes Bill Gates at MIX06 Watch the screencast here: < ***O'Reilly Authors Get Jolted O'Reilly authors won three of four Jolt Product Excellence Awards.=20 The winners are: *"Prefactoring," by Ken Pugh < *"The Art of Project Management," by Scott Berkun < *"Producing Open Source Software," by Karl Fogel < ***Latest Title Available on Rough Cuts: "Atlas" "Atlas Rough Cuts" provides experienced web developers with an exciting hands-on tour of Atlas--the new development environment that uses both Ajax and ASP.NET. Beginning with an introduction to the technologies behind it all, including JavaScript, XMLHttpRequest, DHTML and related topics, author Christian Wenz shows readers how to create Ajax-style applications with the Atlas framework, including data binding and XML Web Services. The book imparts important fundamental knowledge in a concise reference-like way, making the concepts of this new framework accessible to developers of various technical levels. < For more information, go to: < --------------------- Open Source --------------------- ***Secure Your Linux Server Linux is a powerful and popular operating system kernel. That popularity means you might be running it even if you're not a dedicated Unix administrator or high-powered programmer. That doesn't mean that rock-solid security is out of your reach, though. Aaron Brazell shows how to make Red Hat 9 (and other Linux distributions) much more secure in a few easy steps. = < ***Autofilled PHP Forms PHP makes handling interactive web pages easy--but when you have large forms to fill out, errors to handle, and lots of data to pass back and forth, you can make your life easier by making PHP fill in all the form values for you. Gavin Andresen shows how to make forms autopopulate from PHP arrays. < ***What Corporate Projects Should Learn from Open Source Many corporate projects fail to produce quality software, yet many large-scale open source projects succeed, and under much more difficult conditions: no budget, a geographically distributed team, and a volunteer workforce, to name a few. So how do open source project teams ensure success? Andrew Stellman and Jennifer Greene introduce five basic principles in their new book, "Applied Software Project Management," that will help any project succeed, open source or proprietary. The authors detail these principles in this article.=20 = < --------------------- Mac --------------------- ***Digital Bookmark Mods Matthew Russell shows you how to add better bookmarks to your audio books, add slideshows to your music files, create enhanced podcasts, and share your favorite mods with others--even if they're on protected audio. = < ***Getting Started with Quartz Composer Apple's free developer tool collection contains many overlooked gems. These aren't limited to programming-specific utilities. Take Quartz Composer, for example. It's a free utility that can bring new life and interest to your iMovie projects. In this article, you'll learn how to use your own pictures to create simple, but flashy animation. < --------------------- Windows/.NET --------------------- ***Using the MultiView and Wizard Controls in ASP.NET 2.0 Need to collect data from Web pages? ASP.NET 2.0 makes it easy, with the use of MultiView and Wizard controls. Wei-Meng Lee, author of "ASP.NET 2.0: A Developer's Notebook" shows you how to take advantage of them. = < ***Directions in Windows Scripting Administering Windows platforms using scripts can be a big productivity booster or a headache. Mitch Tulloch, author of "Windows Server Hacks," sits down with Don Jones, a Microsoft MVP and the creator of ScriptingAnswers.com, for a no-holds barred interview about the future of scripting. = < --------------------- Web --------------------- ***Profiting Without Frequently Updated Content Do you think you need to constantly update content to have a successful Website that generates AdSense revenue month after month? Think again. = < ***Google Page Creator: When It Gets Too Hard Tired of building quick-and-dirty sites for your family and friends just so they won't produce their own FrontPage monstrosity? Tell them to try Google Page Creator instead. = < --------------------- Java --------------------- ***Zero Configuration Networking: Using the Java APIs, Part 1 Zeroconf, also known as Bonjour and previously known as Rendezvous, offers a robust system for self-networking that has been adopted by many applications. With a provided Java API, now it's easy to make "Zeroconf applications hop platforms. In this excerpt from Zero Configuration Networking: The Definitive Guide," Stuart Cheshire and Daniel H. Steinberg show how to register a service with Zeroconf. < ***What Is Java Everyone knows what Java is, right? Interpreted code, applets, proprietary, and slow. Wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong. In its second decade, it's time to re-evaluate Java: the language and the virtual machine are going their own ways, its open source sub-community is vibrant and independent, and developers are taking the best ideas from other languages and frameworks and bringing them to Java. In this article, ONJava editor Chris Adamson tries to reset old assumptions about Java to fit modern realities. < --------------------- Podcasts --------------------- ***The Internet of Things This week, Bruce Sterling's Emerging Technology keynote on "The Internet of Things" is the sole segment in our program. (DTF 03-20-2006: 30 minutes 13 seconds) = < ***The Future of Telephony, Going Digital, and Open Formats Peter Cochrane looks at the future of telephony and handheld devices, James Duncan Davidson talks about his switch from film to digital photography, and Simon Phipps explains the importance of open formats backed up by open source software. (DTF 03-13-2006: 26 minutes 30 seconds) = < --------------------- Digital Media --------------------- ***Managing Digital Images: Applying Ratings and Keywords The explosion of digital imaging has left professional and serious amateur photographers drowning in photographs, with little guidance on how to store, sort and organize them. In this excerpt from "The DAM Book," Peter Krogh shows you expert techniques for applying ratings and keywords so you can begin to take control of your digital photo library. < ***Inside Animusic's Astonishing Computer Music Videos Composer Wayne Lytle's custom software transforms musical notes into jaw-dropping 3D animations. The resulting DVDs have sold tens of thousands of copies. Watch excerpts here and learn how Lytle turned his digital pipe dream into a thriving business. = < ***Screencast: Photoshop Starburst Effect SitePoint's first-ever video tutorial shows you step-by-step how to create starburst effects in Photoshop. = < --------------------- MAKE --------------------- ***Maker Faire, San Mateo Fairgrounds, San Mateo, CA--April 22-23 Join the creators of MAKE magazine, the MythBusters, and thousands of tech DIY enthusiasts, crafters, educators, tinkerers, hobbyists, science clubs, students, and authors at MAKE's first ever Maker Faire! Meet all kinds of people who make amazing things in garages, basements, and backyards for inspiration, know-how, and spirited mischief-making. An incredible learning experience for the entire family, students of all ages and their teachers are welcome. < ***Try a Sample Project from MAKE: < Until next time-- Marsee Henon =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D O'Reilly=20 1005 Gravenstein Highway North =20 Sebastopol, CA 95472 http://ug.oreilly.com/ http://www.oreilly.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D = --Apple-Mail-8-271853104-- From jim@well.com Sun Apr 02 14:22:05 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:46555) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQA1K-0005X0-7N for ; Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:22:04 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-27-120.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.27.120]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k32LLwuh017255 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <185ACD28-C28F-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:24:40 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1367/Sun Apr 2 03:40:41 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] meeting news, books, free Ubuntu X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 21:22:06 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1233 Lines: 38 I got there before 11 so's to get a parking place. others showed up kind of 11:30, I supposed they tho't they were coming early (daylight savings). Discussion was a lot about the gaming industry, with mention of IBM's cell CPU (and Sony's possible life-or-death dependence on it) and the happy prospects for linux. Discussion also pointed out the miseries of late-comers in a time-to-market world. Harold brought a cellphone made by HTC ( www.xda-developers.com ) (XDA, MDA, SX-56, Qtek...) that's running The Other Platform CD, but can run linux--and does, and so do several other PDA-cellphones, but only in Asia. If you remember mention of the O'Reilly books that showed up in my (our) PO box, they're now gone: Linux Server Hacks, Linux Multimedia Hacks, Intermediate Perl. Ubuntu came up in discussion repeatedly. You can get Ubuntu for free: http://www.ubuntu.com http://www.canonical.com/ You'll have to register.... I ordered five for give-away. Next meeting is at San Francisco State U., on 19th at Holloway, Tuesday, April 11, from 6:30 PM to 9:00 PM. You can negotiate rides to and from your place by emailing jim@well.com, long as I can get there before 6:30 (to set up the machine). From rick@linuxmafia.com Sun Apr 02 16:03:05 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQBb6-0006Fm-Cx by authid for ; Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:03:04 -0700 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 16:03:03 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060402230303.GQ5311@linuxmafia.com> References: <185ACD28-C28F-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <185ACD28-C28F-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] meeting news, books, free Ubuntu X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:03:05 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1846 Lines: 46 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > Next meeting is at San Francisco State U., on > 19th at Holloway, Tuesday, April 11, from 6:30 PM > to 9:00 PM. I'm guessing that the exact venue (building, room) hasn't been nailed down, yet, right? It's kind of a big campus. > Ubuntu came up in discussion repeatedly. > You can get Ubuntu for free: > http://www.ubuntu.com > http://www.canonical.com/ > You'll have to register.... I ordered five for > give-away. Reminds me: I've been massively revising some pages on the SVLUG Web site, preparing to migrate it to wiki format (which you can see being prototyped if you pardon the dust -- i.e., please ignore the aesthetics, which are still a rough cut, especially on the front page, and intended to be re-done before launch). Existing site: http://www.svlug.org/ Prototype future (wiki-based) site: http://gemini.starshine.org/SVLUG/ One of the pages _most_ out of date -- much of it about eight years out of date -- was the "Link Farm" page, http://www.svlug.org/farm.shtml -- including its list of major Linux distributions, http://www.svlug.org/farm.shtml#sw-dist . As you can see, Ubuntu (in its various flavours) is among the distributions now highlighted on that page -- and below those 11 distros are four pages deemed most helpful to newcomers in selecting Linux distributions. I've also beefed up (and corrected) the list of groups to bring it in line with BALE, revamped and expanded the (previously rather pathetic) "Linux Jobs" category, tracked down all Bay Area Linux hardware vendors I could find, and listed known Bay Area retailers selling Linux distribution media. If people can think of anything I've missed, reminders would be most helpful. E.g., if someone wants to go to some of the stores and _write down_ what distros they carry, that would be great. From sverma@sfsu.edu Sun Apr 02 23:04:34 2006 Received: from iron2.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.36]:36642) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQIAx-0000ON-Hv ; Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:04:34 -0700 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron2.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 02 Apr 2006 23:04:24 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006040223055325-27847 ; Sun, 2 Apr 2006 23:05:53 -0700 Message-ID: <4430BACB.8070104@sfsu.edu> Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:03:55 -0700 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rick Moen References: <185ACD28-C28F-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060402230303.GQ5311@linuxmafia.com> In-Reply-To: <20060402230303.GQ5311@linuxmafia.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/02/2006 23:05:53, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/02/2006 23:04:24, Serialize complete at 04/02/2006 23:04:24 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.36 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] meeting news, books, free Ubuntu X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 06:04:35 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 638 Lines: 32 Rick Moen wrote: >Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > > > >>Next meeting is at San Francisco State U., on >>19th at Holloway, Tuesday, April 11, from 6:30 PM >>to 9:00 PM. >> >> > >I'm guessing that the exact venue (building, room) hasn't been nailed >down, yet, right? It's kind of a big campus. > > > Hi Rick, We are still working on the location...will send details soon. School's on Spring break this week, so things are a bit slow. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Mon Apr 03 13:12:03 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:36605) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQVP3-0005vK-2k for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:12:03 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-196-132.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.196.132]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k33KBgh9001309 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Message-Id: <715B3AAC-C34E-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:14:23 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1370/Mon Apr 3 10:31:59 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-11-431822941 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:17:11 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: Geekville! X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 20:12:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 77075 Lines: 1020 --Apple-Mail-11-431822941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > On the lower left is Bill Gates. On the lower right is Paul Allen, > owner > of the Seattle Seahawks, a man now worth about $20 billion. > How much money would you have sent this group in 1978? > --Apple-Mail-11-431822941 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: image/jpg; x-unix-mode=0644; name="Microsoft 1978.JPG" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Microsoft 1978.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAeAB4AAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRofHh0a HBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwhMjIyMjIy MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAARCAIAAhIDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm p6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEA AwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREAAgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSEx 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linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQVi7-00060e-I8 for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:31:41 -0700 Received: (qmail 18334 invoked by uid 60001); 3 Apr 2006 20:31:29 -0000 Message-ID: <20060403203129.18332.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:31:29 PDT Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:31:29 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.63 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_SHORT_LENGTH autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1456085471-1144096289=:17470" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Reviews.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 20:31:42 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 493 Lines: 16 --0-1456085471-1144096289=:17470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone, Anyone have suggestions of a good site to go to that gives good hardware reviews? Thanks --0-1456085471-1144096289=:17470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Everyone,
Anyone have suggestions of a good site to go to that gives good hardware reviews?

Thanks
--0-1456085471-1144096289=:17470-- From penguin@techbandit.com Mon Apr 03 14:11:17 2006 Received: from mxout-03.mxes.net ([205.237.194.34]:2997) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQWKO-0006NY-Qh for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:11:15 -0700 Received: from [192.168.125.102] (dsl017-004-012.ser1.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.4.12]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.mxes.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FBF95191F for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 17:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:11:23 -0800 From: Romel Jacinto To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <139E698BED363CDAD83501C8@tintin.local> In-Reply-To: <20060403203129.18332.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060403203129.18332.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.4 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of penguin@techbandit.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 205.237.194.34 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: penguin@techbandit.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Reviews.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:11:18 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 541 Lines: 21 --On April 3, 2006 1:31:29 PM -0700 vincent polite wrote: > Anyone have suggestions of a good site to go to that gives good hardware > reviews? I don't seek out specific hardware reviews very often, but I've used Tom's Hardware as a good resource. Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/ Plenty of more review sites around: http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Hardware/Technical_Evaluations_and_Product_Reviews/?il=1 Or if that URL is too long for you: http://tinyurl.com/plefy -- Romel Jacinto From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Apr 03 14:16:12 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQWPD-0006Pt-IU by authid for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:16:11 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:16:10 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060403211610.GD3332@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060403203129.18332.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> <139E698BED363CDAD83501C8@tintin.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <139E698BED363CDAD83501C8@tintin.local> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Reviews.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:16:12 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 421 Lines: 11 Quoting Romel Jacinto (penguin@techbandit.com): > http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Hardware/Technical_Evaluations_and_Product_Reviews/?il=1 Oh, clever! dmoz.org, repackaged. -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From rick@linuxmafia.com Mon Apr 03 14:29:30 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQWc5-0006TW-Lc by authid for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 14:29:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:29:29 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060403212928.GE3332@linuxmafia.com> References: <715B3AAC-C34E-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <715B3AAC-C34E-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Geekville! X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:29:30 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 629 Lines: 16 Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > On the lower left is Bill Gates. On the lower right is Paul Allen, > owner of the Seattle Seahawks, a man now worth about $20 billion. How > much money would you have sent this group in 1978? And you know what? Their stuff sucked back then, too. I was around at the time. See: "Altair BASIC" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft -- Cheers, I have yet to see any problem, however complicated, Rick Moen which, when you looked at it in the right way, did rick@linuxmafia.com not become still more complicated. -- Poul Anderson From darose@darose.net Mon Apr 03 21:48:37 2006 Received: from ms-smtp-03-smtplb.rdc-nyc.rr.com ([24.29.109.7]:45974 helo=ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQdSy-00013i-TR for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 21:48:36 -0700 Received: from darsys6 (cpe-66-108-243-4.nyc.res.rr.com [66.108.243.4]) by ms-smtp-03.rdc-nyc.rr.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k344icx7010316 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 00:44:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.0.90] by darsys6 with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FQdSp-0003mR-Lt for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 00:48:23 -0400 Message-ID: <4431EC6D.9020402@darose.net> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 23:47:57 -0400 From: David Rosenstrauch User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (X11/20060113) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <20060403203129.18332.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> <139E698BED363CDAD83501C8@tintin.local> In-Reply-To: <139E698BED363CDAD83501C8@tintin.local> X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of darose@darose.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 24.29.109.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: darose@darose.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Reviews.. X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 04:48:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 662 Lines: 23 Romel Jacinto wrote: > --On April 3, 2006 1:31:29 PM -0700 vincent polite > wrote: > >> Anyone have suggestions of a good site to go to that gives good hardware >> reviews? > > I don't seek out specific hardware reviews very often, but I've used Tom's > Hardware as a good resource. > > Tom's Hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/ www.anandtech.com is a good site too. Also, if I'm looking for info about a specific item, I'll sometimes check the user reviews at www.newegg.com. Less authoritative, but it's useful for getting a feel for whether an item is good or not from people who've used it a lot hands on. DR From nbs@sonic.net Mon Apr 03 22:34:49 2006 Received: from a.mail.sonic.net ([64.142.16.245]:54037) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQeBh-0001Nz-0Z for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:34:48 -0700 Received: from newshell.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.19]) by a.mail.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.13.3) with ESMTP id k345YShP013334 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:34:29 -0700 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (IDENT:O4jgPEq1jw2fIcB26Y9p2pOrBE/z7DDs@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by newshell.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1) with ESMTP id k345YSZG016395 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:34:28 -0700 Received: (from nbs@localhost) by bolt.sonic.net (8.13.6/8.12.1/Submit) id k345YSE9016394 for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:34:28 -0700 Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:34:28 -0700 From: Bill Kendrick To: SF-LUG Message-ID: <20060404053428.GD15589@sonic.net> Mail-Followup-To: SF-LUG Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of nbs@sonic.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 64.142.16.245 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: nbs@sonic.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] [fwd] SVLUG Apr 5th meeting: "Automating Software Builds" X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 05:34:50 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3581 Lines: 104 FYI! The Silicon Valley Linux Users Group (SVLUG) meets this Wednesday: WHEN: Wednesday, April 5, 2006 7pm-9pm MAIN PRESENTATION: TOPIC: Automating Software Builds PRESENTED BY: Kevin Jameson, Co-founder, Codefast, Inc. TOPIC SUMMARY: Automated software processes are an important part of your software project infrastructure: They are the scripts and programs that perform checkouts, software builds, regression tests, release packaging processes, code branch health checks, and other such automated file manipulations. Although programmers have traditionally created automated processes using manual craft labor, it is now possible to generate and execute such processes using automated smart process generators & scalable execution systems, with essentially no human labor. Because human errors are removed from the system (along with human labor), process error rates drop dramatically; product cycle times speed up accordingly. E.g., during a five-month period (Nov. 2004 to Mar. 2005), Codefast's developers made 7,688 check-ins to a code base of 1M lines of C, running on 20 platforms, and had zero build failures on Codefast's GNU Linux platform. Zero build failures equates to perfect six-sigma build-process quality. This talk gives highlights of Codefast's story, summarizing Production Automation concepts, goals, solutions, and results; it gives Codefast's conclusions and expectations for the future. Attendees will be able to pick up a free copy of Kevin Jameson's second, easy to read book Software Lifecycle Automation, at the presentation. ABOUT THE PRESENTER: Software-productivity researcher Kevin Jameson has spent almost 25 years researching and implementing smart, automated software systems to improve software-development team productivity. Kevin was the original founder of Codefast in Canada, before the company was re-formed as a Silicon Valley VC-backed company; he's currently responsible for the technology vision of modern Codefast products. Kevin has authored two books in the field: Multiplatform Code Management (O'Reilly, 1994) and Software Lifecycle Automation (2004). He's written numerous technical articles and papers, spoken at various international software conferences, and authored more than 25 USA and Canadian patents and patents-pending in the field of software lifecycle automation. Kevin has a bachelor's degree in general science, and a master's degree in software engineering from the University of Calgary. NIFTY OF THE MONTH / OTHER BUSINESS: To be announced. LOCATION: Symantec (formerly Veritas Software Corp.) VCAFE Facility 350 Ellis Street (near E. Middlefield Road) Mountain View, CA 94043 Directions on how to get there are listed at: http://www.svlug.org/directions/veritas.shtml We've tried our very best for these directions to be accurate. If you have any improvements to make, please let SVLUG's volunteers know! webmaster {at} svlug -dot- org MEETING REFRESHMENTS: Open Country (http://www.opencountry.com/) will be graciously providing refreshments for this meeting. POST-MEETING GATHERING: If you just can't get enough, a smaller group usually goes to a local restaurant/diner after the meeting. We'll announce the restaurant selection at the meeting. We look forward to seeing you there! -- Bill Kendrick Speaker Coordinator Silicon Valley Linux Users Group http://www.svlug.org/ From kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com Tue Apr 04 11:21:58 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-04.bluehost.com ([70.103.189.14]:40141) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQqA8-0006lG-5P for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:21:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 10092 invoked by uid 0); 4 Apr 2006 18:21:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box54.bluehost.com) (70.98.111.54) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 4 Apr 2006 18:21:26 -0000 Received: from [65.88.67.216] (helo=betyt2kfkp61.corp.kpmgconsulting.com) by box54.bluehost.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FQq9e-0007D1-JO for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:21:26 -0600 From: kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:22:15 -0600 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200604041222.15289.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> X-Identified-User: {840:box54.bluehost.com:kevinkem:kevinkempterllc.com} {sentby:bopbeforesmtp 65.88.67.216 authed with kevinkempterllc.com} Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.103.189.14 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] OT - Perl / CPAN question X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:21:58 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 402 Lines: 12 Hi List; Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list. I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of web pages and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the perl process would download the requested web pages in XML format. Anyone know of a method, CPAN Module, etc that will help pull this off? Thanks in advance for your help... From deirdre@deirdre.net Tue Apr 04 11:33:28 2006 Received: from emperor.deirdre.org ([198.144.195.190]:51556 helo=freesia.deirdre.org) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQqLF-0006nd-0a for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 11:33:27 -0700 Received: from [10.0.1.3] (airport.deirdre.org [198.144.195.188]) by freesia.deirdre.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k34IkKwK002206; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:46:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: <200604041222.15289.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> References: <200604041222.15289.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.3) Message-Id: <73E36CAA-5436-4529-B9E6-A208310E0C96@deirdre.net> From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:32:29 -0700 To: kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.3) Received-SPF: neutral (linuxmafia.com: 198.144.195.190 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of deirdre@deirdre.net) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.144.195.190 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: deirdre@deirdre.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] OT - Perl / CPAN question X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 18:33:28 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 786 Lines: 30 On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:22 AM, kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote: > Hi List; > > Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list. > > I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of > web pages > and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the > perl > process would download the requested web pages in XML format. Very few html pages will be XML-compliant, even those served as xhtml. I don't know perl, but I believe ruby's Net::HTTP was modeled upon some perl module or another. process in ruby: require 'net/http' @domain = 'http://deirdre.net/' ... @content = Net::HTTP.get(URI.parse("#{@domain}pages/show/# {@page.id}")) -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Tue Apr 04 12:56:40 2006 Received: from web80404.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.59]:37493) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQrdk-0007IP-E7 for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:56:40 -0700 Received: (qmail 79908 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2006 19:56:26 -0000 Message-ID: <20060404195626.79906.qmail@web80404.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80404.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:56:26 PDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: Deirdre Saoirse Moen , kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com In-Reply-To: <73E36CAA-5436-4529-B9E6-A208310E0C96@deirdre.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.59 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-565025882-1144180586=:77529" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] OT - Perl / CPAN question X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 19:56:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2724 Lines: 51 --0-565025882-1144180586=:77529 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Deirdre, I like your personal website. Very nicely done, not even excepting the fact that you are a techhead. Deirdre Saoirse Moen wrote: On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:22 AM, kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote: > Hi List; > > Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list. > > I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of > web pages > and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the > perl > process would download the requested web pages in XML format. Very few html pages will be XML-compliant, even those served as xhtml. I don't know perl, but I believe ruby's Net::HTTP was modeled upon some perl module or another. process in ruby: require 'net/http' @domain = 'http://deirdre.net/' ... @content = Net::HTTP.get(URI.parse("#{@domain}pages/show/# {@page.id}")) -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-565025882-1144180586=:77529 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Deirdre,
I like your personal website. Very nicely done, not even excepting the fact that you are a techhead.

Deirdre Saoirse Moen <deirdre@deirdre.net> wrote:
On Apr 4, 2006, at 11:22 AM, kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote:

> Hi List;
>
> Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list.
>
> I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of
> web pages
> and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the
> perl
> process would download the requested web pages in XML format.

Very few html pages will be XML-compliant, even those served as xhtml.

I don't know perl, but I believe ruby's Net::HTTP was modeled upon
some perl module or another.

process in ruby:

require 'net/http'
@domain = 'http://deirdre.net/'
...
@content = Net::HTTP.get(URI.parse("#{@domain}pages/show/#
{@page.id}"))

--
_Deirdre http://deirdre.net



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--0-565025882-1144180586=:77529-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Tue Apr 04 14:10:37 2006 Received: from web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.123]:45842) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQsnH-0007yQ-KW for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 14:10:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 65742 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2006 21:10:21 -0000 Message-ID: <20060404211021.65740.qmail@web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31411.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 14:10:20 PDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:10:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <200604041222.15289.kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.123 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1924064825-1144185020=:56373" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] OT - Perl / CPAN question X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:10:37 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2364 Lines: 36 --0-1924064825-1144185020=:56373 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The LWP Perl package will do what you want. There are also Perl XML packages. If you go to http://www.cpan.org and search for "LWP" you'll find it; you should also search for "XML". kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote: Hi List; Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list. I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of web pages and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the perl process would download the requested web pages in XML format. Anyone know of a method, CPAN Module, etc that will help pull this off? Thanks in advance for your help... _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --0-1924064825-1144185020=:56373 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The LWP Perl package will do what you want. There are also Perl XML packages. If you go to http://www.cpan.org and search for "LWP" you'll find it; you should also search for "XML".


kevin.kempter@dataintellect.com wrote:
Hi List;

Sorry for the OT post but I could not find a relevent perl list.

I want to create a perl process that will go to a specified list of web pages
and retrieve the data for each page so i can parse it. Ideally, the perl
process would download the requested web pages in XML format.

Anyone know of a method, CPAN Module, etc that will help pull this off?

Thanks in advance for your help...

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --0-1924064825-1144185020=:56373-- From sverma@sfsu.edu Tue Apr 04 16:32:29 2006 Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.35]:5375) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQv0a-0000S2-OE for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:32:29 -0700 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 04 Apr 2006 16:32:19 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006040416334820-32646 ; Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:33:48 -0700 Message-ID: <443301E5.8040905@sfsu.edu> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:31:49 -0700 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <715B3AAC-C34E-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060403212928.GE3332@linuxmafia.com> In-Reply-To: <20060403212928.GE3332@linuxmafia.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/04/2006 16:33:48, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/04/2006 16:32:18, Serialize complete at 04/04/2006 16:32:18 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.35 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Geekville! X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 23:32:30 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 743 Lines: 32 Rick Moen wrote: >Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > > > >>On the lower left is Bill Gates. On the lower right is Paul Allen, >>owner of the Seattle Seahawks, a man now worth about $20 billion. How >>much money would you have sent this group in 1978? >> >> > >And you know what? Their stuff sucked back then, too. I was around at >the time. > >See: "Altair BASIC" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft > > > There's a list of all the people in that picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroSoft under the "History" section. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Tue Apr 04 16:51:03 2006 Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.56]:28026) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FQvIV-0000Vi-SF for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:51:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 45857 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Apr 2006 23:50:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20060404235040.45855.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 04 Apr 2006 16:50:40 PDT Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:50:40 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: Sameer Verma , sf-lug@linuxmafia.com In-Reply-To: <443301E5.8040905@sfsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.56 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_20,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1406494663-1144194640=:45851" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: Geekville! X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2006 23:51:04 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3385 Lines: 55 --0-1406494663-1144194640=:45851 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Sameer, I don't know what took me so long. I normally check out people's website, when they indicate there might be something there. So, I finally checkedout yours. Pretty cool stuff. I'm now definitely want to be there next Tuesday. PS. Hey Jim, I'll be out in your neck of the beach, it really is only sand dunes out there, Tuesday by about 4pm. Need some help? This time I'll definitely be there! ! Sameer Verma wrote: Rick Moen wrote: >Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com): > > > >>On the lower left is Bill Gates. On the lower right is Paul Allen, >>owner of the Seattle Seahawks, a man now worth about $20 billion. How >>much money would you have sent this group in 1978? >> >> > >And you know what? Their stuff sucked back then, too. I was around at >the time. > >See: "Altair BASIC" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft > > > There's a list of all the people in that picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroSoft under the "History" section. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1406494663-1144194640=:45851 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Sameer,
I don't know what took me so long. I normally check out people's website, when they indicate there might be something there. So, I finally checkedout yours. Pretty cool stuff. I'm now definitely want to be there next Tuesday.

PS. Hey Jim, I'll be out in your neck of the beach, it really is only sand dunes out there, Tuesday by about 4pm. Need some help? This time I'll definitely be there! !

Sameer Verma <sverma@sfsu.edu> wrote:
Rick Moen wrote:

>Quoting jim stockford (jim@well.com):
>
>
>
>>On the lower left is Bill Gates. On the lower right is Paul Allen,
>>owner of the Seattle Seahawks, a man now worth about $20 billion. How
>>much money would you have sent this group in 1978?
>>
>>
>
>And you know what? Their stuff sucked back then, too. I was around at
>the time.
>
>See: "Altair BASIC" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Legacy_Microsoft
>
>
>
There's a list of all the people in that picture at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroSoft under the "History" section.

Sameer

--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Asst. Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/

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--0-1406494663-1144194640=:45851-- From jim@well.com Wed Apr 05 08:26:09 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:58252) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FR9tW-0006fQ-4o for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:26:08 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-235.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.235]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k35FPwKl008267 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:28:41 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1376/Tue Apr 4 22:51:25 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] RedHat certification study group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:26:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1012 Lines: 30 At least three of us are interested in starting up a study group for RedHat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) certification. To get certified requires passing the test for RedHat Certified Technician/Engineer (RHCT or RHCE). The test is a three-hour sit-at-the-box and do things marathon--no notes, no internet, just the online docs, costs $350 or so to take the RHCT test, $750 to take the RHTE test. For descriptions see https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/ There are lots of books and online resources, as well as various lists of the test tasks given. Michael proposes once-a-week get-togethers over a machine. I propose using email (not this list) for mutual support during the week. We can meet at my house (has multiple machines, networked, okay to screw up and rebuild, but I'm out at ocean beach. Whoever is interested, please respond (to this list for now), and if you know of a place we can use to get together--somewhere more centrally located in SF, let us know. jim From jim@well.com Wed Apr 05 09:00:27 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:61757) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRAQg-0006qf-DE for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:00:26 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-0-235.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.0.235]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k35G0GX4024429; Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:00:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4c85bff50604050848pb88e7e5u8d7d2a6c65f3baf@mail.gmail.com> References: <4c85bff50604050848pb88e7e5u8d7d2a6c65f3baf@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:02:59 -0700 To: greg@perlnelson.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88/1376/Tue Apr 4 22:51:25 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-12-589538394 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] RedHat certification study group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 16:00:27 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5485 Lines: 228 --Apple-Mail-12-589538394 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed RHCE by michael Jang, Osborne press I've got the fourth edition (a good sign), which covers RHEL 3. Current shipping version is RHEL 4, and 5 is due out soon. The tests (and classes) lag the release by a few months. I recommend getting the outline from the RH training site and using RH docs (available online) as well as various other sources (which we can nail down in the next few weeks). On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Greg Nelson wrote: > Jim, > > I think I would be interested in participating by email.=A0 I might = end=20 > up doing=A0 the course of study and skip taking the certification = exam,=20 > since I'm not looking for a job.=A0=A0 But I would study hard, and=20 > participate thoughtfully and actively in group email discussions. > > By the way, I followed the link in your message and searched for a=20 > citation to=A0 a useful book, but found only the statement that many=20= > books are available.=A0 Can you recommend a book? > > Greg Nelson > > On 4/5/06, jim stockford wrote: > > =A0=A0=A0=A0At least three of us are interested in starting > up a study group for RedHat Enterprise Linux > (RHEL) certification. > =A0=A0=A0=A0To get certified requires passing the test for > RedHat Certified Technician/Engineer (RHCT > or RHCE). > =A0=A0=A0=A0The test is a three-hour sit-at-the-box and > do things marathon--no notes, no internet, > just the online docs, costs $350 or so to take > the RHCT test, $750 to take the RHTE test. > =A0=A0=A0=A0For descriptions see > https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/ > =A0=A0=A0=A0There are lots of books and online resources, > as well as various lists of the test tasks given. > =A0=A0=A0=A0Michael proposes once-a-week get-togethers > over a machine. I propose using email (not > this list) for mutual support during the week. > We can meet at my house (has multiple > machines, networked, okay to screw up and > rebuild, but I'm out at ocean beach. > > =A0=A0=A0=A0Whoever is interested, please respond (to > this list for now), and if you know of a place > we can use to get together--somewhere > more centrally located in SF, let us know. > > jim > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > --=20 > Sincerely, > > Greg Nelson > greg@perlnelson.org > 839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303 > (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile)= --Apple-Mail-12-589538394 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=ISO-8859-1 RHCE by michael Jang, Osborne press=20 I've got the fourth edition (a good sign),=20 which covers RHEL 3. Current shipping=20 version is RHEL 4, and 5 is due out soon.=20 The tests (and classes) lag the release=20 by a few months.=20 I recommend getting the outline from=20 the RH training site and using RH docs=20 (available online) as well as various=20 other sources (which we can nail down=20 in the next few weeks).=20 On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Greg Nelson wrote: Jim, I think I would be interested in participating by email.=A0 I might end up doing=A0 the course of study and skip taking the certification exam, since I'm not looking for a job.=A0=A0 But I would study hard, and participate thoughtfully and actively in group email discussions. By the way, I followed the link in your message and searched for a citation to=A0 a useful book, but found only the statement that many books are available.=A0 Can you recommend a book? Greg Nelson On 4/5/06, jim stockford <<0000,0000,EEEEjim@well.com> wrote: =A0=A0=A0=A0At least three of us are interested in starting up a study group for RedHat Enterprise Linux (RHEL) certification. =A0=A0=A0=A0To get certified requires passing the test for RedHat Certified Technician/Engineer (RHCT=20 or RHCE). =A0=A0=A0=A0The test is a three-hour sit-at-the-box and do things marathon--no notes, no internet, just the online docs, costs $350 or so to take the RHCT test, $750 to take the RHTE test. =A0=A0=A0=A0For descriptions see=20 = 0000,0000,EEEEhttps://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/c= ourses/ =A0=A0=A0=A0There are lots of books and online resources, as well as various lists of the test tasks given. =A0=A0=A0=A0Michael proposes once-a-week get-togethers=20 over a machine. I propose using email (not this list) for mutual support during the week. We can meet at my house (has multiple machines, networked, okay to screw up and rebuild, but I'm out at ocean beach.=20 =A0=A0=A0=A0Whoever is interested, please respond (to this list for now), and if you know of a place we can use to get together--somewhere more centrally located in SF, let us know. jim _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list 0000,0000,EEEEsf-lug@linuxmafia.com = 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo= /sf-lug --=20 Sincerely, Greg Nelson 0000,0000,EEEEgreg@perlnelson.org 839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303=20 (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 = (mobile)= --Apple-Mail-12-589538394-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Apr 05 13:06:46 2006 Received: from web80401.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.56]:39093) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FREH2-0000Ou-Vf for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:06:45 -0700 Received: (qmail 93689 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2006 20:06:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20060405200622.93687.qmail@web80401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80401.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:06:22 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:06:22 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: jim stockford , greg@perlnelson.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.56 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1747714055-1144267582=:92739" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" Subject: Re: [sf-lug] RedHat certification study group X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:06:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 6440 Lines: 97 --0-1747714055-1144267582=:92739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jim, I can clear some space off my old laptop, and we can start from scratch with a fresh install? I need to keep some things on there. A dual boot? jim stockford wrote: RHCE by michael Jang, Osborne press I've got the fourth edition (a good sign), which covers RHEL 3. Current shipping version is RHEL 4, and 5 is due out soon. The tests (and classes) lag the release by a few months. I recommend getting the outline from the RH training site and using RH docs (available online) as well as various other sources (which we can nail down in the next few weeks). On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Greg Nelson wrote: > Jim, > > I think I would be interested in participating by email. I might end > up doing the course of study and skip taking the certification exam, > since I'm not looking for a job. But I would study hard, and > participate thoughtfully and actively in group email discussions. > > By the way, I followed the link in your message and searched for a > citation to a useful book, but found only the statement that many > books are available. Can you recommend a book? > > Greg Nelson > > On 4/5/06, jim stockford wrote: > > At least three of us are interested in starting > up a study group for RedHat Enterprise Linux > (RHEL) certification. > To get certified requires passing the test for > RedHat Certified Technician/Engineer (RHCT > or RHCE). > The test is a three-hour sit-at-the-box and > do things marathon--no notes, no internet, > just the online docs, costs $350 or so to take > the RHCT test, $750 to take the RHTE test. > For descriptions see > https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/ > There are lots of books and online resources, > as well as various lists of the test tasks given. > Michael proposes once-a-week get-togethers > over a machine. I propose using email (not > this list) for mutual support during the week. > We can meet at my house (has multiple > machines, networked, okay to screw up and > rebuild, but I'm out at ocean beach. > > Whoever is interested, please respond (to > this list for now), and if you know of a place > we can use to get together--somewhere > more centrally located in SF, let us know. > > jim > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > -- > Sincerely, > > Greg Nelson > greg@perlnelson.org > 839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303 > (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile)_______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --0-1747714055-1144267582=:92739 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jim,
I can clear some space off my old laptop, and we can start from scratch with a fresh install? I need to keep some things on there. A dual boot?

jim stockford <jim@well.com> wrote:

RHCE by michael Jang, Osborne press

I've got the fourth edition (a good sign),
which covers RHEL 3. Current shipping
version is RHEL 4, and 5 is due out soon.
The tests (and classes) lag the release
by a few months.
I recommend getting the outline from
the RH training site and using RH docs
(available online) as well as various
other sources (which we can nail down
in the next few weeks).


On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:48 AM, Greg Nelson wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I think I would be interested in participating by email.  I might end
> up doing  the course of study and skip taking the certification exam,
> since I'm not looking for a job.   But I would study hard, and
> participate thoughtfully and actively in group email discussions.
>
> By the way, I followed the link in your message and searched for a
> citation to  a useful book, but found only the statement that many
> books are available.  Can you recommend a book?
>
> Greg Nelson
>
> On 4/5/06, jim stockford wrote:
>
>     At least three of us are interested in starting
> up a study group for RedHat Enterprise Linux
> (RHEL) certification.
>     To get certified requires passing the test for
> RedHat Certified Technician/Engineer (RHCT
> or RHCE).
>     The test is a three-hour sit-at-the-box and
> do things marathon--no notes, no internet,
> just the online docs, costs $350 or so to take
> the RHCT test, $750 to take the RHTE test.
>     For descriptions see
> https://www.redhat.com/training/rhce/courses/
>     There are lots of books and online resources,
> as well as various lists of the test tasks given.
>     Michael proposes once-a-week get-togethers
> over a machine. I propose using email (not
> this list) for mutual support during the week.
> We can meet at my house (has multiple
> machines, networked, okay to screw up and
> rebuild, but I'm out at ocean beach.
>
>     Whoever is interested, please respond (to
> this list for now), and if you know of a place
> we can use to get together--somewhere
> more centrally located in SF, let us know.
>
> jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sf-lug mailing list
> sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
> http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> Greg Nelson
> greg@perlnelson.org
> 839 Richardson Ct Palo Alto, CA USA 94303
> (650) 856 8103 (home) (650) 856 8103 (office) (650) 954 5338 (mobile)_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

--0-1747714055-1144267582=:92739-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Apr 05 13:08:37 2006 Received: from web80403.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.58]:40685) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FREIr-0000Qf-7s for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:08:36 -0700 Received: (qmail 48914 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Apr 2006 20:08:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20060405200821.48912.qmail@web80403.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80403.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:08:20 PDT Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:08:20 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.58 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_50_60, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2021767444-1144267700=:42590" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (job) Web Producer - Broadband/Interactive X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:08:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4610 Lines: 67 --0-2021767444-1144267700=:42590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Who knows. Might be a good job for someone. andreayolo wrote: To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com From: "andreayolo" Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:39:20 -0000 Subject: [new-sfwow] (job) Web Producer - Broadband/Interactive Hello, I work for Oracle in the Brand & Creative group. We have an opening for a web producer. Feel free to forward to anyone who you think may be interested. http://www.craigslist.org/pen/art/147829876.html Please note the specific skillset associated with this job. Someone who has Java or SQL programming skills would not fit at all. We're a small group and need someone with strong web design skills (HTML divas - please apply!). Flash is cool but we really need someone that will be able to mange their projects and feel very comfortable coding (html & _javascript). Thanks! Andrea Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-2021767444-1144267700=:42590 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Who knows. Might be a good job for someone.

andreayolo <andrea.yolo@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com
From: "andreayolo" <andrea.yolo@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:39:20 -0000
Subject: [new-sfwow] (job) Web Producer - Broadband/Interactive

Hello,

I work for Oracle in the Brand & Creative group.  We have an opening
for a web producer.

Feel free to forward to anyone who you think may be interested.

http://www.craigslist.org/pen/art/147829876.html

Please note the specific skillset associated with this job.  Someone
who has Java or SQL programming skills would not fit at all.  We're a
small group and need someone with strong web design skills (HTML divas -
please apply!).  Flash is cool but we really need someone that will be
able to mange their projects and feel very comfortable coding (html &
_javascript).

Thanks!
Andrea

Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
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--0-2021767444-1144267700=:42590-- From jim@well.com Thu Apr 06 20:07:47 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:33811) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRhK4-0004Dl-Es for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:07:46 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-202-90.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.202.90]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3737ZJI026519; Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <0BE9C8EF-C5E4-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 20:10:20 -0700 To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.1, clamav-milter version 0.88.1 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: SF-LUG at SFSU Tuesday 6:30 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:07:47 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 113 Lines: 7 From the SFSU folks: > we tentatively have Thornton Hall 326 on April 11 but we can't use it > until 6:30. > From sverma@sfsu.edu Fri Apr 07 00:46:32 2006 Received: from iron2.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.36]:34567) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRlfo-0005hr-Ir for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:46:31 -0700 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron2.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 07 Apr 2006 00:46:24 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006040700475280-4616 ; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:47:52 -0700 Message-ID: <443618AC.8080801@sfsu.edu> Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 00:45:48 -0700 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" References: <0BE9C8EF-C5E4-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> In-Reply-To: <0BE9C8EF-C5E4-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/07/2006 00:47:52, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/07/2006 00:46:23, Serialize complete at 04/07/2006 00:46:23 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.36 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] Fwd: SF-LUG at SFSU Tuesday 6:30 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 07:46:32 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 640 Lines: 26 jim stockford wrote: > From the SFSU folks: > > >>we tentatively have Thornton Hall 326 on April 11 but we can't use it >>until 6:30. >> >> Thornton Hall is approachable quite easily from 19th Ave. A campus map can be found at http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ If you follow 19th Ave. going south, you will see Hensill and Thornton at right angles. The Muni line is M-Ocean View. I believe the room is available to IMSA/SFLUG from 6:30pm to 9:00pm. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Fri Apr 07 07:01:26 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:34747) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRrWb-0007yL-0U for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 07:01:25 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-200-75.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.200.75]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k37E16RZ027939 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <577BAF32-C63F-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com List" From: jim stockford Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 07:03:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.1/1380/Thu Apr 6 23:46:22 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Tuesday meeting at SFSU 6:30 X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:01:26 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1569 Lines: 39 The usual format for our meetings is people come and hang out, and fall into conversations. It seems to work. For the SFSU crowd, I'm bringing a machine with aRedHat-ish linux installed along with some Ubuntu "live" CDs. Going on Cyrus' comments, I figure the format will be Q and A. I'll be a moderator at least for the first half hour, asking people about themselves, what they know about Linux, and what they want to learn. I can easily give a blurb on Linux' position in the software industry, its growth, job possibilities, resources, applications, and so on, including debunking stale misconceptions. Other SF-LUG members are coming, and they can represent their interests. I'll for sure advertise the SF-LUG mailing list and the fact of our little community and its availability to help with homework. People will have the opportunity to use the machine--I'll govern their access so that as many people as possible get to check it out. Got any comments? Lemme know. I'll be coming home (ocean beach area) around 5:00 to get the machine and can swing by Richmond and Sunset to pick people up (ride home after, too). Send email if you want me to pick you up. If you get there on your own, if you live in Richmond or Sunset, I can take you home (van seats seven). "There" still seems to be: Thornton Hall, approachable quite easily from 19th Ave. A campus map can be found at http://www.sfsu.edu/~sfsumap/ If you follow 19th Ave going south, you will see Hensill and Thornton at right angles. The Muni line is M-Ocean View. From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Apr 07 08:21:47 2006 Received: from web80409.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.64]:39968) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRsmM-0000FA-58 for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:21:47 -0700 Received: (qmail 54567 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Apr 2006 15:21:31 -0000 Message-ID: <20060407152131.54565.qmail@web80409.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80409.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:21:31 PDT Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.64 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-299072193-1144423291=:43716" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (job)Fwd: Linux Development / Admin position X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:21:48 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 5990 Lines: 96 --0-299072193-1144423291=:43716 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thought I'd forward this one on. Diane C wrote: To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com From: Diane C Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 22:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [new-sfwow] (job)Fwd: Linux Development / Admin position --- Michael Bigi wrote: > From: "Michael Bigi" > To: > Subject: Linux Development / Admin position > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:13:59 -0500 > > > > I have a super opportunity for a Linux developer in > the Bay area (Hayward, > south of Oakland). Some Linux administration also > required. Full-time > salaried or > contract to hire - client is flexible but this would > be long-term work. > > Some telecomutting from home is ok, but need to be > able to be on site on > short > notice (so local bay area candidates only). Salary > in high 80s to mid 90s, > possibly better. Fortune 500 clients. > > > Min 5+ yrs exp. > PERL scripting / PHP web development > MySQL db backend > Linux (Redhat) OS maintenance > Apply SQL knowledge for data mining and retrieval > Experience with mortgage/title experience a plus > Experience with email campaigns a plus > > > If you are interested or know of someone who is, > please send resume. > > Thanks, > > Michael B. > > Debt is borrowing from the future to pay for today. http://www.wittygal.com http://www.solvency.org Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-299072193-1144423291=:43716 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thought I'd forward this one on.

Diane C <diane@wittygal.com> wrote:
To: new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com
From: Diane C <diane@wittygal.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 22:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [new-sfwow] (job)Fwd: Linux Development / Admin position



--- Michael Bigi <mbigi@backbayconsulting.com> wrote:

> From: "Michael Bigi" <mbigi@backbayconsulting.com>
> To: <mbigi@backbayconsulting.com>
> Subject: Linux Development / Admin position
> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:13:59 -0500
>
>
>
> I have a super opportunity for a Linux developer in
> the Bay area (Hayward,
> south of Oakland). Some Linux administration also
> required.  Full-time
> salaried or
> contract to hire - client is flexible but this would
> be long-term work.
>
> Some telecomutting from home is ok, but need to be
> able to be on site on
> short
> notice (so local bay area candidates only). Salary
> in high 80s to mid 90s,
> possibly better. Fortune 500 clients.
>
>
> Min 5+ yrs exp.
> PERL scripting / PHP web development
> MySQL db backend
> Linux (Redhat) OS maintenance
> Apply SQL knowledge for data mining and retrieval
> Experience with mortgage/title experience a plus
> Experience with email campaigns a plus
>
>
> If you are interested or know of someone who is,
> please send resume.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michael B.
>
>


Debt is borrowing from the future to pay for today.

http://www.wittygal.com
http://www.solvency.org

Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html


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--0-299072193-1144423291=:43716-- From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Fri Apr 07 15:33:47 2006 Received: from web80405.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.60]:24445) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FRzWO-0003tE-0v for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:33:46 -0700 Received: (qmail 78548 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Apr 2006 22:33:30 -0000 Message-ID: <20060407223330.78546.qmail@web80405.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80405.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Apr 2006 15:33:30 PDT Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , christian , Patti Nelson MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.60 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1975999948-1144449210=:76895" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [new-sfwow] (event) Free nonprofit event on remixing web technologies for social change this Tuesday at Varnish X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 22:33:47 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 10735 Lines: 100 --0-1975999948-1144449210=:76895 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This event sounds interesting. I know Jim, it conflicts with the SFSU gig. But, it happens every month. Maybe next month. Susan Tenby wrote: To: From: "Susan Tenby" Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:07:13 -0700 Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) Free nonprofit event on remixing web technologies for social change this Tuesday at Varnish Hey WOWSers, CompuMentor, the organization I work for, has a new project I think you'll find interesting and important. Netsquared http://www.netsquared.org is helping nonprofits extend the reach and impact of their mission by leveraging web-based tools like blogging, podcasting, video logs and lots of others. The group, a mix of nonprofit innovators, private software-developers and local advocates of social change, get together on the second Tuesday of the month at 6pm @ Varnish in San Francisco to discuss their progress and challenges-I thought you might be interested in checking it out. The next event is on April 11th, at 6pm, at Varnish Art Gallery on 77 Natoma (between 1st & 2nd). Zack Rosen of CivicSpace, Tara Hunt of Riya.com and HorsePigCow and Adam Frey of WikiSpaces will give short presentations and answer questions about community engagement and community tools. Have you been to Varnish? It's a good spot-art, a bar, and the NetSquared folks bring food. http://www.netsquared.org/participate/net-tuesday It'd be great to see you there. -Susan ~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Susan Tenby, Online Community Manager, TechSoup.org. CompuMentor 435 Brannan Street, Suite 100, San Francisco, CA 94107-1234 Voice: 415.633.9333 Fax: 415.512.9629 Email: susan@compumentor.org http://www.compumentor.org http://www.techsoup.org ~*~*~*~*~*~*~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech) More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html SPONSORED LINKS Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection --------------------------------- YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "new-sfwow" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: new-sfwow-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- --0-1975999948-1144449210=:76895 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This event sounds interesting. I know Jim, it conflicts with the SFSU gig. But, it happens every month. Maybe next month.

Susan Tenby <susan@compumentor.org> wrote:
To: <new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Susan Tenby" <susan@compumentor.org>
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:07:13 -0700
Subject: [new-sfwow] (event) Free nonprofit event on remixing web technologies for social change this Tuesday at Varnish

Hey WOWSers,

CompuMentor, the organization I work for, has a new project I think
you'll find interesting and important. Netsquared
http://www.netsquared.org is helping nonprofits extend the reach and
impact of their mission by leveraging web-based tools like blogging,
podcasting, video logs and lots of others.

The group, a mix of nonprofit innovators, private software-developers
and local advocates of social change, get together on the second Tuesday
of the month at 6pm @ Varnish in San Francisco to discuss their progress
and challenges-I thought you might be interested in checking it out.

The next event is on April 11th, at 6pm, at Varnish Art Gallery on 77
Natoma (between 1st & 2nd). Zack Rosen of CivicSpace, Tara Hunt of
Riya.com and HorsePigCow and Adam Frey of WikiSpaces will give short
presentations and answer questions about community engagement and
community tools.

Have you been to Varnish? It's a good spot-art, a bar, and the
NetSquared folks bring food.
http://www.netsquared.org/participate/net-tuesday

It'd be great to see you there.



-Susan


~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Susan Tenby, Online Community Manager, TechSoup.org.
CompuMentor
435 Brannan Street, Suite 100, San Francisco, CA 94107-1234
Voice: 415.633.9333
Fax: 415.512.9629
Email: susan@compumentor.org
http://www.compumentor.org <http://www.compumentor.org/> 
http://www.techsoup.org <http://www.techsoup.org/> 
~*~*~*~*~*~*~





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Always start subject with one of: (community) (discussion) (event) (intro) (job) (tech)
More info: http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html#post
Need Help? Mailto:listmom@sfwow.org or http://www.sfwow.org/pages/join/listfaq.html



SPONSORED LINKS
Computer internet security Computer internet business Computer internet access
Computer internet privacy securities Computer internet help Computer internet connection

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS




--0-1975999948-1144449210=:76895-- From thomas.dizoglio@eride.com Tue Apr 11 17:39:57 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-50.bluehost.com ([70.96.188.19]:33521) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTTOk-0007LU-PA for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:39:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 6872 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2006 00:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box12.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.170) by mailproxy3.bluehost.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2006 00:39:51 -0000 Received: from h-66-134-139-206.snvacaid.covad.net ([66.134.139.206] helo=[192.168.0.80]) by box12.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FTTOg-0006Nk-WC for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:39:51 -0600 Message-ID: <443C4C47.70303@eride.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:39:35 -0700 From: Thomas DiZoglio Organization: eRide User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Identified-User: {32073:box12.bluehost.com:eridecom:eride.com} {sentby:smtp auth 66.134.139.206 authed with thomas.dizoglio@eride.com} X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.96.188.19 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: thomas.dizoglio@eride.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] Can anyone recommend a SBC board? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:39:58 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1293 Lines: 25 Hey, I need a ARM7 or ARM9 (No XScale) embedded SBC board with 2"-4" LCD that can run: - Linux (kernel >= 2.4.3, Microwindows,Nano-X or other GUI support) - WinCE 4.2/5.0 - Embedded OS's (i.e. uC/OS-II, ThreadX) - Source code examples, libraries and tools (GCC proffered) for running embedded application only and no OS. I have been looking around on http://www.linuxdevices.com. I'm currently using a (http://www.littlechips.com/) Korean companies SBC called LN2410SBC_P with 3.5" LCD but support is really bad and there are a lot of driver issues with the display and serial ports. I'm working on a GPS solution to give OEM's a reference design platform on how to use our system. Thanks. --------------------------------- t0md -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. From thomas.dizoglio@eride.com Tue Apr 11 17:10:16 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-23.bluehost.com ([70.103.189.18]:50651) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTSw1-0007Fn-AE for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:10:15 -0700 Received: (qmail 12043 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2006 00:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box12.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.170) by mailproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2006 00:10:06 -0000 Received: from h-66-134-139-206.snvacaid.covad.net ([66.134.139.206] helo=[192.168.0.80]) by box12.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FTSvt-00014G-2i for sf-lug@linuxmafia.com; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:10:05 -0600 Message-ID: <443C454D.3000504@eride.com> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 17:09:49 -0700 From: Thomas DiZoglio Organization: eRide User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" X-Identified-User: {32073:box12.bluehost.com:eridecom:eride.com} {sentby:smtp auth 66.134.139.206 authed with thomas.dizoglio@eride.com} X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.103.189.18 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: thomas.dizoglio@eride.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:32:30 -0700 Subject: [sf-lug] Can anyone recommend a SBC board? X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 00:10:16 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1293 Lines: 25 Hey, I need a ARM7 or ARM9 (No XScale) embedded SBC board with 2"-4" LCD that can run: - Linux (kernel >= 2.4.3, Microwindows,Nano-X or other GUI support) - WinCE 4.2/5.0 - Embedded OS's (i.e. uC/OS-II, ThreadX) - Source code examples, libraries and tools (GCC proffered) for running embedded application only and no OS. I have been looking around on http://www.linuxdevices.com. I'm currently using a (http://www.littlechips.com/) Korean companies SBC called LN2410SBC_P with 3.5" LCD but support is really bad and there are a lot of driver issues with the display and serial ports. I'm working on a GPS solution to give OEM's a reference design platform on how to use our system. Thanks. --------------------------------- t0md -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 08:30:50 2006 Received: from web80408.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.63]:21666) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FThIu-0004lQ-2j for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:30:49 -0700 Received: (qmail 60128 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2006 15:30:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80408.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:30:34 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.63 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_00_10, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_SHORT_LENGTH autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-589120419-1144855834=:48645" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:30:51 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 581 Lines: 13 --0-589120419-1144855834=:48645 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think? http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 --0-589120419-1144855834=:48645 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think?
http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 --0-589120419-1144855834=:48645-- From jim@well.com Wed Apr 12 08:41:38 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:48503) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FThTL-0004p6-57 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:41:37 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (ppp-71-139-199-208.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [71.139.199.208]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3CFfRdX007283; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:41:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <312BD898-CA3B-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:44:13 -0700 To: vincent polite X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.88.1, clamav-milter version 0.88.1 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:41:38 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 723 Lines: 28 here's another link http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensrc/ I found it in Vince's article, it's a rahrah piece extolling the benefits of contributing to some open source project (proves you love coding or computers or some such, ergo you're a good one to hire, not the other slackers appying for the job). thanks for the leader, Vince. On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:30 AM, vincent polite wrote: > I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. > What do you guys think? > > http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/? > WT.mc_n=MNL000118_______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug From vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 10:01:14 2006 Received: from web80406.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.79.61]:28189) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTiiK-0005xv-UE for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:01:14 -0700 Received: (qmail 10930 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2006 17:00:57 -0000 Message-ID: <20060412170057.10928.qmail@web80406.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [134.67.6.3] by web80406.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:00:57 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:00:57 -0700 (PDT) From: vincent polite To: Kimberly Kradel In-Reply-To: <9ead52a20604120853m68ba4e37t5527928fd76bdb48@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 66.218.79.61 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-40151928-1144861257=:1015" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: "sf-lug@linuxmafia.com" , new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:01:15 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 4018 Lines: 40 --0-40151928-1144861257=:1015 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kimberly, I'm still a newbie at OpenSource, but I know some people who are quite adept at this growing area in the techie field. I'd be willing to be a go-between for anyone who wants to understand it better, including me,. I for one get kind of ovewhelmed by it all. Trying to figure out what is the best direction to follow. I don't think I'm a big time geek. Kimberly Kradel wrote: This quote is definitely true from my perspective: "Job security is not about being the best at what you do but about one's ability to adapt to a volatile industry and reinvent oneself," Laushman says. "Open source is becoming more ubiquitous, and if you want to increase your chances of stable work in the technology field long term, acquiring skills in open source is a must." On 4/12/06, vincent polite wrote: I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think? http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 -- Kimberly Kradel www.artist-at-large.com kimba.artist-at-large.com (photography) www.kimba.com (artwork) kimba@artist-at-large.com VoIP: SkypeFree: kradel [or] 415.578.3317 Check out the new line of Notecards in the MarketPlace! --0-40151928-1144861257=:1015 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kimberly,
I'm still a newbie at OpenSource, but I know some people who are quite adept at this growing area in the techie field. I'd be willing to be a go-between for anyone who wants to understand it better, including me,. I for one get kind of ovewhelmed by it all. Trying to figure out what is the best direction to follow. I don't think I'm a big time geek.


Kimberly Kradel <kimba@artist-at-large.com> wrote:
 
This quote is definitely true from my perspective:
 
"Job security is not about being the best at what you do but about one's ability to adapt to a volatile industry and reinvent oneself," Laushman says. "Open source is becoming more ubiquitous, and if you want to increase your chances of stable work in the technology field long term, acquiring skills in open source is a must."


On 4/12/06, vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think?
  http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118



--
Kimberly Kradel

www.artist-at-large.com
kimba.artist-at-large.com (photography)
www.kimba.com (artwork)
kimba@artist-at-large.com
VoIP: SkypeFree: kradel  [or] 415.578.3317
Check out the new line of Notecards in the MarketPlace!

--0-40151928-1144861257=:1015-- From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 10:36:56 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:48258) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTjGv-0006JE-7s for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:36:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 18713 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2006 17:36:43 -0000 Message-ID: <20060412173643.18711.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [69.111.59.163] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:36:43 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:36:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-737848841-1144863403=:10590" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:36:56 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 3579 Lines: 31 --0-737848841-1144863403=:10590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit vincent polite wrote: I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think? http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 The article is basically correct. It is obviously aimed at those who haven't looked at open-source; you'd have to be living in the jungle the past few years (or working 12 hours a day with some other operating system) to not be aware of what the author is pointing out. I like his mention of what he calls the "LAMP stack". I recently had to look into a LAMP solution on MS Windows for a client (they only use Windows.) The great thing about LAMP is that you can implement a LAMP application on Windows, then very easily migrate the application to Linux later, illustrating one of open-source's main selling points: protection of your software development investment. The big problem I'm seeing right now with employers is their lack of understanding of skill sets. A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is way better to just write it from scratch. Cheers. Adrien --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-737848841-1144863403=:10590 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit vincent polite <vpolitewebsiteguy@yahoo.com> wrote:
I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think?
http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118

The article is basically correct. It is obviously aimed at those who haven't looked at open-source; you'd have to be living in the jungle the past few years (or working 12 hours a day with some other operating system) to not be aware of what the author is pointing out.

I like his mention of what he calls the "LAMP stack". I recently had to look into a LAMP solution on MS Windows for a client (they only use Windows.) The great thing about LAMP is that you can implement a LAMP application on Windows, then very easily migrate the application to Linux later, illustrating one of open-source's main selling points: protection of your software development investment.

The big problem I'm seeing right now with employers is their lack of understanding of skill sets. A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is way better to just write it from scratch.

Cheers.

Adrien


Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --0-737848841-1144863403=:10590-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Apr 12 11:04:45 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTjhr-0006cl-Uj by authid for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:04:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:04:42 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060412180442.GT5596@linuxmafia.com> References: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> <20060412173643.18711.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060412173643.18711.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:04:46 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 924 Lines: 24 Quoting Adrien Lamothe (alamozzz@yahoo.com): > The big problem I'm seeing right now with employers is their lack of > understanding of skill sets. I am shocked! shocked! to hear about such things. ;-> > A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert > systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other > stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer > would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows > and Linux. Astute point. I also love the ads that want "15 years' experience with Java", a language invented in 1994. -- Cheers, "Learning Java has been a slow and tortuous process for me. Every Rick Moen few minutes, I start screaming 'No, you fools!' and have to go rick@linuxmafia.com read something from _Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs_ to de-stress." -- The Cube, www.forum3000.org From lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net Wed Apr 12 11:15:11 2006 Received: from web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([209.191.85.226]:45438) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTjrv-0006ge-76 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:15:11 -0700 Received: (qmail 61120 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2006 18:14:12 -0000 Message-ID: <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [71.141.105.137] by web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:14:12 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:14:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Lx Rudis To: jim stockford , vincent polite In-Reply-To: <312BD898-CA3B-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 209.191.85.226 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: [sf-lug] monster opensource article, last night's Drive of the Penguins X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:15:12 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1885 Lines: 64 inside this: > http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensrc/ > > I found it in Vince's article, it's a rahrah piece > extolling the benefits of contributing to some there is a link to this: http://www.kegel.com/academy/opensource.html i'm going through it right now, mostly it states the obvious, but it is great to have reminders such this laid out and available for when one's creativity and stick-to-it-iveness is at a low point... good links, thanks! also - thanks to the gang up at SFSU who hosted us last night! it was a great alternative to the Javacat meetings, and from the sound of things last night we are going to make this a regular monthly thing. probably the most important thing i heard was from one of the students, kyle. he shared that sometimes he feels intimidated when asking questions about Linux on mail lists. it was a reminder to me that _i_ do this also, and that it is not the best way to pursue knowledge about something like open source computing. kyle, a self-admitted noob probably offered the most sophisticated issue of the evening - the importance of asking questions, no matter how 'dumb' they may seem. lx p.s.: jim frightened some other students prior to the meeting. we wandered into the wrong classroom with the gear, asked if it was the Linux group. they stared at us as if we'd just been decanted from a flying saucer. one or two said 'uh, no' or something equally inspired. then jim hinted that they weren't good enough to use Linux and we stalked out of the classroom. jim is my hero. i'm going to get a mean lookin' penguin tattoo on my arm and a leather jacket that says SF LINUX USERS GROUP on the back. then i'm going back to that campus and just sort of hang out on my motorcycle there, maybe do a little scriptin' or bug checkin' on my laptop in between greasing my hair and lookin' cool. yeah! x From thomas.dizoglio@eride.com Wed Apr 12 12:19:08 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-20.bluehost.com ([70.98.111.235]:48055) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTkro-00077g-Oy for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:19:07 -0700 Received: (qmail 26783 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2006 18:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box12.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.170) by mailproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2006 18:55:18 -0000 Received: from h-66-134-139-206.snvacaid.covad.net ([66.134.139.206] helo=[192.168.0.80]) by box12.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FTkUm-0000MM-Bj; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:55:17 -0600 Message-ID: <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:54:59 -0700 From: Thomas DiZoglio Organization: eRide User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: vincent polite References: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> X-Identified-User: {32073:box12.bluehost.com:eridecom:eride.com} {sentby:smtp auth 66.134.139.206 authed with thomas.dizoglio@eride.com} X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.98.111.235 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: thomas.dizoglio@eride.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090909000003020002060806" X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:19:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 11170 Lines: 156 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090909000003020002060806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert > systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other > stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer > would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows > and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is=20 > way better to just write it from scratch. Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. Both have str= engths in various parts of software development. For example, coding a se= rver-side application that needs to handle a lot of user requests or inte= grated into a application server is best done in Java. This is because of= all the great classes it provides for memory management, threading, abil= ity to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling (UDP/TCP u= p to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write a robust server-side = application where as for C++ the same would take 4 times as much code and= a lot more knowledge of low level network protocols (assuming not using = Microsoft system DLL's). Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GU= I Windows or Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client applic= ation on either platform will build a application that is 4 times the siz= e of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower and you can't take advantage of = the host OS's full GUI and system routine capabilities. Also, if you code= on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it = is pretty close to Java's runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java= can be helpful and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ applic= ation. For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to file= or send over the network. This was first done in Java and the feature is= very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both languages can make you = a better object oriented programmer and write better code. This is why fr= om a Software Engineering job perspective it is very important to know ab= out both languages and being able to know when to use the correct one for= the problem you are trying to solve. As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but not as much a= s knowing Java/C++. For example if I wanted to run a server for email, we= bsite hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D multi-pla= yer game I would code on Windows using DirectX or OpenGL (for portablity)= =2E Knowing both these systems as a Software Engineer is good and will gi= ve you a much broader appeal for companies to hire you. I find this more = true at the embedded level of programming where Windows (CE, XP) and Linu= x compete more because at this level both provide the same abilities and = tools. So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs to r= un both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems are different en= ough, but you should still share most code (> 80%) if you are writing a c= ross-platform application and coding in C++ using true object oriented de= sign(Java should require no code changes using SWING or AWT). If you need= to write code from scratch when porting an application then the applicat= ion was initially designed wrong (original coder told not to design for m= ultiple platforms to save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doe= sn't know how to code or do his job properly. This is also why know multi= ple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/MacOS) helps you out as a Software Eng= ineer because when designing an object oriented application you will crea= te your class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform spec= ific code. this is always important because porting an application can ha= ppen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP to Vista will be a port. This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective. ------------------------ t0md vincent polite wrote: > I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com.=20 > What do you guys think? > http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=3DMNL000118 > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > __________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > =20 --=20 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to= eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient= indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of th= is message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message= may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deli= ver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you = should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to= notify the sender by reply email. --------------090909000003020002060806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
> A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert
> systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other
> stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer
> would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows
> and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is 
> way better to just write it from scratch.

Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. Both have strengths in various parts of software development. For example, coding a server-side application that needs to handle a lot of user requests or integrated into a application server is best done in Java. This is because of all the great classes it provides for memory management, threading, ability to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling (UDP/TCP up to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write a robust server-side application where as for C++ the same would take 4 times as much code and a lot more knowledge of low level network protocols (assuming not using Microsoft system DLL's). Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GUI Windows or Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client application on either platform will build a application that is 4 times the size of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower and you can't take advantage of the host OS's full GUI and system routin
e capabilities. Also, if you code on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it is pretty close to Java's runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java can be helpful and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ application. For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to file or send over the network. This was first done in Java and the feature is very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both languages can make you a better object oriented programmer and write better code. This is why from a Software Engineering job perspective it is very important to know about both languages and being able to know when to use the correct one for the problem you are trying to solve.

As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but not as much as knowing Java/C++. For example if I wanted to run a server for email, website hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D multi-player game I would code on Windows using DirectX or OpenGL (for portablity). Knowing both these systems as a Software Engineer is good and will give you a much broader appeal for companies to hire you. I find this more true at the embedded level of programming where Windows (CE, XP) and Linux compete more because at this level both provide the same abilities and tools. So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs to run both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems are different enough, but you should still share most code (> 80%) if you are writing a cross-platform application and coding in C++ using true object oriented design(Java should require no code changes using SWING or AWT). If you need to write code from scratch when portin
g an application then the application was initially designed wrong (original coder told not to design for multiple platforms to save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doesn't know how to code or do his job properly. This is also why know multiple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/MacOS) helps you out as a Software Engineer because when designing an object oriented application you will create your class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform specific code. this is always important because porting an application can happen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP to Vista will be a port.

This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective.
------------------------
t0md


vincent polite wrote:
I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think?
http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 

_______________________________________________
sf-lug mailing list
sf-lug@linuxmafia.com
http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug


__________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com

  

-- 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email.
--------------090909000003020002060806-- From deirdre@deirdre.net Wed Apr 12 12:42:09 2006 Received: from emperor.deirdre.org ([198.144.195.190]:40455 helo=freesia.deirdre.org) by linuxmafia.com with esmtps (Cipher TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTlE6-0007DZ-M7 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:08 -0700 Received: from [10.0.1.3] (airport.deirdre.org [198.144.195.188]) by freesia.deirdre.org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id k3CJu9ox022899; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:56:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v749.3) In-Reply-To: <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> References: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> Message-Id: <55100520-20ED-4295-928A-7841714AD549@deirdre.net> From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:00 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.749.3) Received-SPF: neutral (linuxmafia.com: 198.144.195.190 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of deirdre@deirdre.net) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 198.144.195.190 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: deirdre@deirdre.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.1 required=4.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:42:09 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 692 Lines: 27 On Apr 12, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Thomas DiZoglio wrote: > Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. You do? I mean, I know both, but I haven't used either professionally in years (C++, 2000; Java, 2004). Since using C++, I've been called upon to program in: C, tcl, Python, PHP, Ruby (and, of course, Java). > As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important No, it's not. I've been a software engineer for 30 years and I've never done any Windows coding. I've also never owned a Windows machine. Sure, that eliminates some jobs, but they're not the ones I'd choose anyway. -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net From alamozzz@yahoo.com Wed Apr 12 12:43:58 2006 Received: from web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.198.114]:37022) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTlFo-0007Ez-VS for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:43:57 -0700 Received: (qmail 76471 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2006 19:43:40 -0000 Message-ID: <20060412194340.76469.qmail@web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.188.109.211] by web31402.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:43:40 PDT Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:43:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Adrien Lamothe To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of alamozzz@yahoo.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 68.142.198.114 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: alamozzz@yahoo.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,HTML_10_20, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-974714543-1144871020=:73945" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:43:59 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 14832 Lines: 75 --0-974714543-1144871020=:73945 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Thomas, I understand where you're coming from. However, taking that approach is very inefficient from a time allocation standpoint. The other problem with both MFC and Java is they are not recognized standards, so the companies that offer them can change them whenever they want, so you are essentially being held hostage. Both C++ and Unix are international standards, so even though C++ takes more work you are able to leverage their standardization when it comes to porting, deciding which Unix to run and acquiring your compilers and other development tools. I've noticed that when I go to websites using Java, they are very slow, so I'm guessing that Java may be slow on the server side also. I prefer to do my object-oriented programming in Python or Ruby. Ruby now has a byte code compiler, and Python is getting one soon. Have you ever programmed in SmallTalk? What do you think of SmallTalk? If you are interested in multi-platform software development, you should look into the QT development kit, from a company called Trolltech (http://www.trolltech.com). QT is excellent, and a version called QTopia works well on devices such as cell phones. QT works with C++, Perl, Python and Ruby. The great thing about QT is that it is open-source, using the GPL license. You pay a licensing fee to use it in commercial systems, but you have the source code. Ask Sun or Microsoft to give you the source code for their products. I think they will give you some of it, but not all of it. Cheers, Adrien Thomas DiZoglio wrote: > A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert > systems programmer in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other > stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer > would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows > and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is > way better to just write it from scratch. Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. Both have strengths in various parts of software development. For example, coding a server-side application that needs to handle a lot of user requests or integrated into a application server is best done in Java. This is because of all the great classes it provides for memory management, threading, ability to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling (UDP/TCP up to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write a robust server-side application where as for C++ the same would take 4 times as much code and a lot more knowledge of low level network protocols (assuming not using Microsoft system DLL's). Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GUI Windows or Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client application on either platform will build a application that is 4 times the size of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower and you can't take advantage of the host OS's full GUI and system routin e capabilities. Also, if you code on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it is pretty close to Java's runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java can be helpful and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ application. For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to file or send over the network. This was first done in Java and the feature is very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both languages can make you a better object oriented programmer and write better code. This is why from a Software Engineering job perspective it is very important to know about both languages and being able to know when to use the correct one for the problem you are trying to solve. As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but not as much as knowing Java/C++. For example if I wanted to run a server for email, website hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D multi-player game I would code on Windows using DirectX or OpenGL (for portablity). Knowing both these systems as a Software Engineer is good and will give you a much broader appeal for companies to hire you. I find this more true at the embedded level of programming where Windows (CE, XP) and Linux compete more because at this level both provide the same abilities and tools. So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs to run both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems are different enough, but you should still share most code (> 80%) if you are writing a cross-platform application and coding in C++ using true object oriented design(Java should require no code changes using SWING or AWT). If you need to write code from scratch when portin g an application then the application was initially designed wrong (original coder told not to design for multiple platforms to save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doesn't know how to code or do his job properly. This is also why know multiple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/MacOS) helps you out as a Software Engineer because when designing an object oriented application you will create your class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform specific code. this is always important because porting an application can happen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP to Vista will be a port. This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective. ------------------------ t0md vincent polite wrote: I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think? http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 --------------------------------- _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug __________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --0-974714543-1144871020=:73945 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Thomas,

I understand where you're coming from. However, taking that approach is very inefficient from a time allocation standpoint. The other problem with both MFC and Java is they are not recognized standards, so the companies that offer them can change them whenever they want, so you are essentially being held hostage. Both C++ and Unix are international standards, so even though C++ takes more work you are able to leverage their standardization when it comes to porting, deciding which Unix to run and acquiring your compilers and other development tools.

I've noticed that when I go to websites using Java, they are very slow, so I'm guessing that Java may be slow on the server side also.

I prefer to do my object-oriented programming in Python or Ruby. Ruby now has a byte code compiler, and Python is getting one soon.

Have you ever programmed in SmallTalk? What do you think of SmallTalk?

If you are interested in multi-platform software development, you should look into the QT development kit, from a company called Trolltech (http://www.trolltech.com). QT is excellent, and a version called QTopia works well on devices such as cell phones. QT works with C++, Perl, Python and Ruby. The great thing about QT is that it is open-source, using the GPL license. You pay a licensing fee to use it in commercial systems, but you have the source code. Ask Sun or Microsoft to give you the source code for their products. I think they will give you some of it, but not all of it.

Cheers,

Adrien


Thomas DiZoglio <thomas.dizoglio@eride.com> wrote:
> A typical job listing these days wants someone who is an expert
> systems programmer
 in Windows, Linux, Java, C++ along with other
> stuff. They don't understand that no self-respecting Java developer
> would be caught dead coding in C++ (and vice-versa). Ditto for Windows
> and Linux. If you are porting an app from Windows to Linux, it is 
> way better to just write it from scratch.

Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. Both have strengths in various parts of software development. For example, coding a server-side application that needs to handle a lot of user requests or integrated into a application server is best done in Java. This is because of all the great classes it provides for memory management, threading, ability to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling (UDP/TCP up to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write a robust server-side application where as for C++
 the same would take 4 times as much code and a lot more knowledge of low level network protocols (assuming not using Microsoft system DLL's). Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GUI Windows or Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client application on either platform will build a application that is 4 times the size of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower and you can't take advantage of the host OS's full GUI and system routin
e capabilities. Also, if you code on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it is pretty close to Java's runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java can be helpful and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ application. For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to file or send over the network. This was first done in Java and the feature is very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both languages can make you a better object oriented programmer and write better code. This
 is why from a Software Engineering job perspective it is very important to know about both languages and being able to know when to use the correct one for the problem you are trying to solve.

As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but not as much as knowing Java/C++. For example if I wanted to run a server for email, website hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D multi-player game I would code on Windows using DirectX or OpenGL (for portablity). Knowing both these systems as a Software Engineer is good and will give you a much broader appeal for companies to hire you. I find this more true at the embedded level of programming where Windows (CE, XP) and Linux compete more because at this level both provide the same abilities and tools. So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs to run both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems are different enough, but you should still share most code (> 80%) if
 you are writing a cross-platform application and coding in C++ using true object oriented design(Java should require no code changes using SWING or AWT). If you need to write code from scratch when portin
g an application then the application was initially designed wrong (original coder told not to design for multiple platforms to save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doesn't know how to code or do his job properly. This is also why know multiple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/MacOS) helps you out as a Software Engineer because when designing an object oriented application you will create your class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform specific code. this is always important because porting an application can happen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP to Vista will be a port.

This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective.
------------------------
t0md



vincent polite wrote:
I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think?
http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 
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Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --0-974714543-1144871020=:73945-- From rick@linuxmafia.com Wed Apr 12 13:13:41 2006 Received: from rick by linuxmafia.com with local (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTlie-0007ZK-Ic by authid for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:13:40 -0700 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:13:39 -0700 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com Message-ID: <20060412201339.GW5596@linuxmafia.com> References: <312BD898-CA3B-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Mas: Bah humbug. User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060126 From: Rick Moen X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Ja X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: rick@linuxmafia.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Subject: Re: [sf-lug] monster opensource article, last night's Drive of the Penguins X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 20:13:41 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 2458 Lines: 52 Quoting Lx Rudis (lx_rudis@sbcglobal.net): > probably the most important thing i heard was from one > of the students, kyle. he shared that sometimes he > feels intimidated when asking questions about Linux on > mail lists. That's why I feel it's so vital to post like a Grade A dumbass, at least one out of every five posts. (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. ;-> ) > kyle, a self-admitted noob probably offered the most > sophisticated issue of the evening - the importance of > asking questions, no matter how 'dumb' they may seem. Just remember Will Strunk's advice to his students, as quoted in _Elements of Style_: It is encouraging to see how perfectly a book, even a dusty rule book, perpetuates and extends the spirit of a man. Will Strunk loved the clear, the brief, the bold, and his book is clear, brief, bold. Boldness is perhaps its chief distinguishing mark. On page 26, explaining one of his parallels, he says, "The lefthand version gives the impression that the writer is undecided or timid, apparently unable or afraid to choose one form of expression and hold to it." And his original Rule 11 was "Make definite assertions." That was Will all over. He scorned the vague, the tame, the colorless, the irresolute. He felt it was worse to be irresolute than to be wrong. I remember a day in class when he leaned far forward, in his characteristic pose the pose of a man about to impart a secret and croaked, "If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud! If you don't know how to pronounce a word, say it loud!" This comical piece of advice struck me as sound at the time, and I still respect it. Why compound ignorance with inaudibility? Why run and hide? The main way I've always learned about Linux was doing and saying dumb things and learning from them -- including destroying my entire system with one badly chosen root-user command. If you're so afraid of being wrong, or of looking ignorant or foolish as to be timid about it, you're actually _much_ more likely to be and remain that way. Go forth and blunder. > jim is my hero. He da' MAN. -- "Is it not the beauty of an asynchronous form of discussion that one can go and make cups of tea, floss the cat, fluff the geraniums, open the kitchen window and scream out it with operatic force, volume, and decorum, and then return to the vexed glowing letters calmer of mind and soul?" -- The Cube, forum3000.org From sverma@sfsu.edu Wed Apr 12 14:15:32 2006 Received: from iron1.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.35]:8909) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTmgS-0007xz-DL for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:15:31 -0700 Received: from smtp01.sfsu.edu ([130.212.10.100]) by iron1.sfsu.edu with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2006 14:15:24 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from [192.168.89.100] ([66.93.183.24]) by mail01b.sfsu.edu (Lotus Domino Release 7.0) with ESMTP id 2006041214165516-11053 ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:16:55 -0700 Message-ID: <443D6DE9.8080605@sfsu.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:15:21 -0700 From: Sameer Verma User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051013) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com References: <312BD898-CA3B-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20060412201339.GW5596@linuxmafia.com> In-Reply-To: <20060412201339.GW5596@linuxmafia.com> X-MIMETrack: Itemize by SMTP Server on MAIL01b/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/12/2006 14:16:55, Serialize by Router on SMTP01/SERVERS/SFSU(Release 7.0|August 18, 2005) at 04/12/2006 14:15:23, Serialize complete at 04/12/2006 14:15:23 Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of sverma@sfsu.edu does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 130.212.10.35 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: sverma@sfsu.edu X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Subject: Re: [sf-lug] last night's Drive of the Penguins X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:15:32 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 1268 Lines: 49 Rick Moen wrote: [snipped] >The main way I've always learned about Linux was doing and saying dumb >things and learning from them -- including destroying my entire system >with one badly chosen root-user command. > you mean like read mail - real fast (rm -rf) ;-) >If you're so afraid of being >wrong, or of looking ignorant or foolish as to be timid about it, you're >actually _much_ more likely to be and remain that way. > >Go forth and blunder. > > > Indeed. Its not like you have limited chances of reinstalling the OS, before you have to call this *dreaded company* and get approval, because you re-installed a little too many times for *their* liking and comfort. >>jim is my hero. >> >> > >He da' MAN. > > > Thanks to all those who showed up and got the ball rolling. I apologize for not being there. As much as I wanted to be there, I got stuck in traffic on 101 and given the rain and hellish traffic, its a miracle I made it back in one piece...saw more than my fair share of accidents and near misses. Anyway, will plan on being there next time. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Asst. Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ From jim@well.com Wed Apr 12 21:59:17 2006 Received: from smtp.well.com ([206.80.4.7]:63263) by linuxmafia.com with esmtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTtvC-0001z7-Lr for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:59:16 -0700 X-WELL-Auth: Yes Received: from [192.168.1.103] (adsl-71-141-7-149.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net [71.141.7.149]) by smtp.well.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3D4x4QD010829; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:59:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> References: <20060412153035.60126.qmail@web80408.mail.yahoo.com> <443D4D03.80008@eride.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Message-Id: <9EF593C6-CAAA-11DA-B15D-000A95EA5592@well.com> From: jim stockford Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:01:52 -0700 To: Thomas DiZoglio X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.88.1/1395/Wed Apr 12 11:44:32 2006 on smtp.well.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: none (linuxmafia.com: domain of jim@well.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 206.80.4.7 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: jim@well.com X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0 (2005-09-13) on linuxmafia.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-26--906412365 X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2 (built Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:49:04 +1100) X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on linuxmafia.com) Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] [new-sfwow] (jobs) This is interesting.... X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 04:59:17 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 10102 Lines: 319 --Apple-Mail-26--906412365 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Apr 12, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Thomas DiZoglio wrote: > > Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. > Both have strengths in various parts of software development. > > For example, coding a server-side application that needs to > handle a lot of user requests or integrated into a application > server is best done in Java. This is because of all the great > classes it provides for memory management, threading, ability > to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling > (UDP/TCP up to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write > a robust server-side application where as for C++ the same > would take 4 times as much code and a lot more knowledge of > low level network protocols (assuming not using Microsoft > system DLL's). > > Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GUI Windows or > Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client > application on either platform will build a application that > is 4 times the size of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower > and you can't take advantage of the host OS's full GUI and > system routine capabilities. > > Also, if you code on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's > libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it is pretty close to Java's > runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java can be helpful > and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ application. > > For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to > file or send over the network. This was first done in Java and > the feature is very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both > languages can make you a better object oriented programmer and > write better code. This is why from a Software Engineering job > perspective it is very important to know about both languages > and being able to know when to use the correct one for the > problem you are trying to solve. > > As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but > not as much as knowing Java/C++. > > For example if I wanted to run a server for email, website > hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D > multi-player game I would code on Windows using DirectX or > OpenGL (for portablity). Knowing both these systems as a > Software Engineer is good and will give you a much broader > appeal for companies to hire you. > > I find this more true at the embedded level of programming > where Windows (CE, XP) and Linux compete more because at this > level both provide the same abilities and tools. > > So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs > to run both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems > are different enough, but you should still share most code > (> 80%) if you are writing a cross-platform application and > coding in C++ using true object oriented design(Java should > require no code changes using SWING or AWT). > > If you need to write code from scratch when porting an > application then the application was initially designed wrong > (original coder told not to design for multiple platforms to > save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doesn't know > how to code or do his job properly. > > This is also why know multiple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/ > MacOS) helps you out as a Software Engineer because when > designing an object oriented application you will create your > class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform > specific code. this is always important because porting an > application can happen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP > to Vista will be a port. > > This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective. > ------------------------ > t0md > > > > vincent polite wrote: > I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. > What do you guys think? > http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > __________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > -- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging > to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a > recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for > delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason > that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not > use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone > else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached > documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-26--906412365 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII On Apr 12, 2006, at 11:54 AM, Thomas DiZoglio wrote: Today you need to know C++ and Java as a Software Engineer. Both have strengths in various parts of software development. For example, coding a server-side application that needs to handle a lot of user requests or integrated into a application server is best done in Java. This is because of all the great classes it provides for memory management, threading, ability to run on multiple platforms and network protocol handling (UDP/TCP up to HTTP). It takes very little Java code to write a robust server-side application where as for C++ the same would take 4 times as much code and a lot more knowledge of low level network protocols (assuming not using Microsoft system DLL's). Now C++ has Java beat for writing client side GUI Windows or Linux applications. Using Java and SWING for a client application on either platform will build a application that is 4 times the size of a C++ executable, runs a lot slower and you can't take advantage of the host OS's full GUI and system routine capabilities. Also, if you code on Windows using C++ and Microsoft's libraries (MFC, ATL, STL, etc.) it is pretty close to Java's runtime classes in capabilites. So knowing Java can be helpful and decrease you coding time writing a Windows C++ application. For example, you understand Serializing an object to write to file or send over the network. This was first done in Java and the feature is very useful so was added to MFC. So knowing both languages can make you a better object oriented programmer and write better code. This is why from a Software Engineering job perspective it is very important to know about both languages and being able to know when to use the correct one for the problem you are trying to solve. As for Windows/Linux coding, knowing both is important, but not as much as knowing Java/C++. For example if I wanted to run a server for email, website hosting, etc. I would use Linux. If I wanted to code a 3D multi-player game I would code on Windows using DirectX or OpenGL (for portablity). Knowing both these systems as a Software Engineer is good and will give you a much broader appeal for companies to hire you. I find this more true at the embedded level of programming where Windows (CE, XP) and Linux compete more because at this level both provide the same abilities and tools. So if you provide embedded hardware to OEM's it usually needs to run both systems. When coding GUI executables the systems are different enough, but you should still share most code (> 80%) if you are writing a cross-platform application and coding in C++ using true object oriented design(Java should require no code changes using SWING or AWT). If you need to write code from scratch when porting an application then the application was initially designed wrong (original coder told not to design for multiple platforms to save $$ on coding bill) or the Software Engineer doesn't know how to code or do his job properly. This is also why know multiple systems (Windows/Linux/Solaris/ MacOS) helps you out as a Software Engineer because when designing an object oriented application you will create your class hierarchy properly to separate core code from platform specific code. this is always important because porting an application can happen even on Windows. Going from Windows XP to Vista will be a port. This is just my 2 cents from a Senior Software Engineer's perspective. ------------------------ t0md vincent polite wrote: I thought this was an interesting little article from monster.com. What do you guys think? 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://technology.monster.com/articles/opensource/?WT.mc_n=MNL000118 _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list 0000,0000,EEEEsf-lug@linuxmafia.com 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug __________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. 0000,0000,EEEEhttp://www.eset.com -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. _______________________________________________ sf-lug mailing list sf-lug@linuxmafia.com http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug --Apple-Mail-26--906412365-- From thomas.dizoglio@eride.com Wed Apr 12 12:20:56 2006 Received: from outbound-mail-33.bluehost.com ([70.96.188.153]:59702) by linuxmafia.com with smtp (Exim 4.60 #1 (EximConfig 2.0)) id 1FTktX-00078y-SM for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:20:56 -0700 Received: (qmail 28058 invoked by uid 0); 12 Apr 2006 19:06:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box12.bluehost.com) (70.103.189.170) by mailproxy2.bluehost.com with SMTP; 12 Apr 2006 19:06:35 -0000 Received: from h-66-134-139-206.snvacaid.covad.net ([66.134.139.206] helo=[192.168.0.80]) by box12.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1FTkfU-0005Sv-N8; Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:06:29 -0600 Message-ID: <443D4F9B.5000808@eride.com> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:06:03 -0700 From: Thomas DiZoglio Organization: eRide User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lx Rudis References: <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20060412181412.61118.qmail@web82306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090609060408070505010604" X-Identified-User: {32073:box12.bluehost.com:eridecom:eride.com} {sentby:smtp auth 66.134.139.206 authed with thomas.dizoglio@eride.com} X-SA-Do-Not-Run: Yes X-EximConfig: v2.0 on linuxmafia.com (http://www.jcdigita.com/eximconfig) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 70.96.188.153 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: thomas.dizoglio@eride.com X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on linuxmafia.com); Message bigger than SAmaxbody (256000) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 22:02:46 -0700 Cc: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com, new-sfwow@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [sf-lug] monster opensource article, last night's Drive of the Penguins X-BeenThere: sf-lug@linuxmafia.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7 Precedence: list List-Id: Temporary home for SF-LUG's mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:20:57 -0000 Status: O Content-Length: 441237 Lines: 6172 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090609060408070505010604 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090206000903080408040909" --------------090206000903080408040909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, Like my penguin linux tattoo? "Live free or Die" --------------------- t0md Lx Rudis wrote: > inside this: > > >> http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensrc/ >> >> I found it in Vince's article, it's a rahrah piece >> extolling the benefits of contributing to some >> > > there is a link to this: > > http://www.kegel.com/academy/opensource.html > > i'm going through it right now, mostly it states the > obvious, but it is great to have reminders such this > laid out and available for when one's creativity and > stick-to-it-iveness is at a low point... > > good links, thanks! > > also - thanks to the gang up at SFSU who hosted us > last night! it was a great alternative to the Javacat > meetings, and from the sound of things last night we > are going to make this a regular monthly thing. > > probably the most important thing i heard was from one > of the students, kyle. he shared that sometimes he > feels intimidated when asking questions about Linux on > mail lists. it was a reminder to me that _i_ do this > also, and that it is not the best way to pursue > knowledge about something like open source computing. > > > kyle, a self-admitted noob probably offered the most > sophisticated issue of the evening - the importance of > asking questions, no matter how 'dumb' they may seem. > > > lx > > p.s.: > jim frightened some other students prior to the > meeting. we wandered into the wrong classroom with > the gear, asked if it was the Linux group. > > they stared at us as if we'd just been decanted from a > flying saucer. one or two said 'uh, no' or something > equally inspired. > > then jim hinted that they weren't good enough to use > Linux and we stalked out of the classroom. > > jim is my hero. i'm going to get a mean lookin' > penguin tattoo on my arm and a leather jacket that > says SF LINUX USERS GROUP on the back. then i'm going > back to that campus and just sort of hang out on my > motorcycle there, maybe do a little scriptin' or bug > checkin' on my laptop in between greasing my hair and > lookin' cool. yeah! > > x > > > > > _______________________________________________ > sf-lug mailing list > sf-lug@linuxmafia.com > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug > > > > __________ NOD32 1.1485 (20060412) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to eRide, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email. --------------090206000903080408040909 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey,

Like my penguin linux tattoo?
"Live free or Die"
---------------------
t0md



Lx Rudis wrote: 
inside this:

  
http://technology.monster.com/articles/opensrc/

I found it in Vince's article, it's a rahrah piece
extolling the benefits of contributing to some
    

 there is a link to this:

http://www.kegel.com/academy/opensource.html

i'm going through it right now, mostly it states the
obvious, but it is great to have reminders such this
laid out and available for when one's creativity and
stick-to-it-iveness is at a low point...

good links, thanks!

also - thanks to the gang up at SFSU who hosted us
last night!  it was a great alternative to the Javacat
meetings, and from the sound of things last night we
are going to make this a regular monthly thing.  

probably the most important thing i heard was from one
of the students, kyle.  he shared that sometimes he
feels intimidated when asking questions about Linux on
mail lists.  it was a reminder to me that _i_ do this
also, and that it is not the best way to pursue
knowledge about something like open source computing. 


kyle, a self-admitted noob probably offered the most
sophisticated issue of the evening - the importance of
asking questions, no matter how 'dumb' they may seem.


lx

p.s.:  
jim frightened some other students prior to the
meeting.  we wandered into the wrong classroom with
the gear, asked if it was the Linux group.

they stared at us as if we'd just been decanted from a
flying saucer.  one or two said 'uh, no' or something
equally inspired.

then jim hinted that they weren't good enough to use
Linux and we stalked out of the classroom.

jim is my hero.  i'm going to get a mean lookin'
penguin tattoo on my arm and a leather jacket that
says SF LINUX USERS GROUP on the back.  then i'm going
back to that campus and just sort of hang out on my
motorcycle there, maybe do a little scriptin' or bug
checkin'  on my laptop in between greasing my hair and
lookin' cool.  yeah!

x




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