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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Last month I brought apricot salsa. It was a hit. Apricots have a short season. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I have made a completely different salsa. </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Paul</div><div><br></div>
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On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 12:14:06 PM PDT, Michael Paoli <michael.paoli@cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
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<div>... and planning to get myself to CABAL<br>I'll likely bring chips and the makings for dip.<br><br>So, yep, in person + Jitsi Meet.<br><br>And to join Jitsi Meet, you don't need anything special,<br>can do it all within browser ...<br><a href="https://meet.jit.si/CABAL" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://meet.jit.si/CABAL</a><br>or can also just dial in from<br>phone for audio only. The URL has all the options, links,<br>number(s) and/or can expand with a click or two to see all the relevant<br>numbers.<br>US Dial-in: +1.512.647.1431 PIN: 3654 3335 40#<br>For many "smart" phones you can put in:<br>+ 1512-647-1431,3654333540#<br>And that generally works automagically dialing in. Clicking the<br>"right spot" on the web page or link from there will also typically<br>have such phones automagically dial that.<br><br>> From: "David Chan" <<a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a>><br>> Subject: RE: CABAL ... Debian "blind" install: RE: [conspire] (forw) <br>> issue encountered during installation<br>> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 08:21:10 -0700<br><br>> The Debian blind install has improved since we last did it, now it <br>> is just the press of a key,and it is also using software speech <br>> instead of the hardware synthesizer<br>><br>> I was using the unofficial version that included the firmware, I <br>> will download the official version in a bit and we can try another <br>> install using that this evening<br>><br>> Do I need to download anything, or just click the link to join in <br>> the fun? Talk in a bit, and thanks again<br>><br>> --David<br>><br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Michael Paoli <<a href="mailto:Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu</a>><br>> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2022 8:09 AM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a><br>> Cc: <a href="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">conspire@linuxmafia.com</a><br>> Subject: CABAL ... Debian "blind" install: RE: [conspire] (forw) <br>> issue encountered during installation<br>><br>> I'm intending to at least make it virtually <a href="http://meet.jit.si/CABAL " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://meet.jit.si/CABAL </a> <br>> to CABAL today ... maybe even in person, as it sounds mightily <br>> deliciously tempting:<br>> <a href="http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2022-July/012114.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/pipermail/conspire/2022-July/012114.html</a><br>><br>> In either case, intending to at least also be there virtually, and <br>> also see if I can work out doing a proper blind Debian install. <br>> Don't think I'll give myself the extra challenge of doing it without <br>> watching - as I'm probably not nearly so adept in navigating it by <br>> audio - but hoping I can come up with the full sequence/procedure <br>> that should work without having to actually look/watch, and <br>> hopefully I'll pay quite enough attention listening also, so if <br>> there's any procedural or menu glitch or bug in doing a blind <br>> install, that I'd also catch and note it.<br>><br>> Intending to do it on a Virtual Machine (VM) ... so there may be <br>> hardware differences, but other than that, expecting it ought be <br>> about the same. Most of the time I don't even bother or think about <br>> audio on a VM - so I'll have to be sure I get that functional too. <br>> Even rather surprises me when I happen to discover I have that, as <br>> usually I'm not using audio on a VM ... and sometimes catches my by <br>> surprise when I find it's there and fully functional ... e.g.<br>> like when I fire up a GUI browser under X and play some video that <br>> also has audio, or likewise fire up browser and do Jitsi Meet on <br>> that within VM and the audio and video are all perfectly operational.<br>> I think I did that about a year or two ago on testing out a system I <br>> did a Debian install on - plus Debian VM within.<br>><br>> Anyway, should be bit of exercise/experiment for me, as I don't <br>> think I've actually run through Debian's blind installation <br>> procedures in ... well, many years. But it ought work smoothly <br>> enough.<br>><br>> I'll also download relevant ISOs ahead of time, so I should have <br>> those available for the VM to use, and mostly avoid excessive <br>> network or download needs, etc.<br>><br>> I'll update if/when I'll be on my way to go there in person or if <br>> that turns out to be my plan.<br>><br>>> From: "David Chan" <<a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a>><br>>> Subject: RE: [conspire] (forw) issue encountered during installation<br>>> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 20:02:38 -0700<br>><br>>><br>>> I am not sure if I can show up in person, since I am in the middle of<br>>> a conference that runs on Central time zone, but I can join virtually<br>>> though [at least for this month, maybe I can come in person next<br>>> month?]<br>>><br>>> I was able to get speech during the Debian installation, but when it<br>>> comes time to reboot it appears some components are missing from the<br>>> installation, and it keeps looking for the boot device, and I wasn't<br>>> sure if it is because of the SSD or if it is something else; the<br>>> ubuntu installed successfully, I just wasn't able to activate the<br>>> speech after the install, and I believe there is no option installing<br>>> using speech<br>>><br>>> --David<br>>><br>>><br>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>> From: Michael Paoli <<a href="mailto:Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Michael.Paoli@cal.berkeley.edu</a>><br>>> Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2022 6:17 AM<br>>> To: David Chan <<a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a>><br>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">conspire@linuxmafia.com</a><br>>> Subject: Re: [conspire] (forw) issue encountered during installation<br>>><br>>> Let's see ... has been a while - alas, well over a decade - since I<br>>> last assisted a user with a Linux installation for blind user. I<br>>> ought practice more - at least once in a while, make sure it works, or<br>>> at least mostly does so, and get myself at least a bit more familiar<br>>> with the procedure.<br>>><br>>> Peeking at some Debian documents, e.g.:<br>>> <a href="https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility</a><br>>> It seems it should mostly "just work" - though there are at least some<br>>> specific steps to be followed along the way - e.g. notably activating<br>>> speech during install. Anyway, I'm also much more familiar with<br>>> Debian than Ubuntu ... though I'd guestimate Ubuntu would be<br>>> relatively similar ... ish? But don't think I've ever attempted that<br>>> with Ubuntu, and I'd guestimate likely that support<br>>> is better on Debian. Perhaps you'll make the next CABAL meeting.<br>>> If so, perhaps let us know in advance.<br>>> I might make it to the next CABAL meeting. And also of relevance, the<br>>> conspire list, if you've not joined:<br>>> <a href="http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire</a><br>>><br>>> Anyway, also, my guestimates where things might've gone sideways or<br>>> failed with the earlier installation, etc. attempts - I comment<br>>> in-line further below:<br>>><br>>>> From: "Rick Moen" <<a href="mailto:rick@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">rick@linuxmafia.com</a>><br>>>> Subject: [conspire] (forw) issue encountered during installation<br>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 23:44:08 -0700<br>>><br>>>> Sending so more folks look at this. I've just clarified to David<br>>>> that the next CABAL event will be July _9th_.<br>>>><br>>>> ----- Forwarded message from David Chan <<a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a>> -----<br>>>><br>>>> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 21:42:43 -0700<br>>>> From: David Chan <<a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a>><br>>>> To: <a href="mailto:installers@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">installers@linuxmafia.com</a><br>>>> Subject: issue encountered during installation<br>>>> Reply-To: <a href="mailto:chandtw@pacbell.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">chandtw@pacbell.net</a><br>>>><br>>>> I am not sure if I can make it in person next Saturday, is there<br>>>> still virtual meeting option available?<br>>><br>>> I believe virtual will also be available again - in more recent many<br>>> months, generally in-person - with proof of vaccination - has been<br>>> available, and also virtual - which started during the pandemic.<br>>> Watch the conspire list for confirmation and URL - but I'm also<br>>> guesmating the URL for virtual will likely be the same. And the<br>>> archives are open to the public, so anyone can read postings, even if<br>>> they're not a member of the list.<br>>><br>>>> Blind user that uses a screen review package called 'speakup' which<br>>>> is usually in a kernel module but is sometimes done as a kernel patch<br>>>><br>>>> Attempted installation on a Toshiba Satellite CT55 with a Samsung<br>>>> 500G SSD<br>>>><br>>>> With ubuntu server 22.04LTS, OS install was successful, and I can see<br>>>> the module was loaded:<br>>><br>>> As for Ubuntu, Ubuntu-Server would be a good choice for blind, as it<br>>> forgoes the ewey GUI stuff, and, at least last I checked, the<br>>> installer for Ubuntu-Server is essentially the Debian installer plus<br>>> some modest Ubuntu customizations - probably most notably for many is<br>>> different color scheme - but there are some other modest differences<br>>> too.<br>>><br>>>> # modprobe speakup_soft<br>>>><br>>>> The 'espeakup' package is then installed to make the computer talk:<br>>>><br>>>> # Apt-get install espeakup<br>>>><br>>>> However, there was no speech after the install of the package<br>>>> finished, and I am unable to figure why it is not talking - maybe the<br>>>> firmware driver is incorrect?<br>>><br>>> Not sure, but one thing I might guess as a possibility, and I've<br>>> sometimes run across this with Debian installs, and have seen what<br>>> looks to be same or similar from at least some fair number of user<br>>> installs of, notably Debian, but Ubuntu may be quite similar in this<br>>> particular regard.<br>>><br>>> Anyway, often on a fresh install, I find folks complain of no audio.<br>>> And terse summary of my response is generally along the lines of:<br>>> "Volume?"<br>>> Most notably, as often I find/observe/hear that at least by default,<br>>> though the audio typically installs fine, it often initially defaults<br>>> on a fresh new install to having the volume levels start out set to<br>>> zero. So sometimes it's a mere matter of turning up the volume in<br>>> relevant configuration and/or controls. At least that's the most<br>>> common issue I see with "no sound" on a fresh Debian installation -<br>>> and may well be likewise for Ubuntu.<br>>><br>>>> Switched to Debian 11.3, choose 's' for speech at the selection<br>>>> prompt, the talking installer starts, and the installation process<br>>>> was successful, the CD drive spits out the disk, and hit return to<br>>>> reboot<br>>><br>>> Yes, Debian, a fine selection - and my favorite distro.<br>>><br>>>> However, after the reboot, the laptop was unable to detect the OS -<br>>>> apparently the files needed to boot were somehow not installed [I<br>>>> switched to tty2 and looked around before rebooting after installing<br>>>> again, and see the boot folder was missing]<br>>><br>>> So, I'm guestimating some step was likely missed during install.<br>>> Unlike some other distros - and even installers - with the Debian<br>>> install - at least using the Debian installer - when it comes to at<br>>> least the critical parts that overwrite stuff on drive, it defaults to<br>>> not doing so.<br>>> So, e.g. typically doing things such as writing the partition table<br>>> out, writing the boot information to the drive, etc., will often<br>>> default to no, or not pick the device automatically - but give option<br>>> of devices, on where to write the boot information. So, if one misses<br>>> one of those steps, one could easily end up with an install that isn't<br>>> bootable.<br>>><br>>> However, if one's already done most all the install work, and might<br>>> prefer not to repeat that, may also be relatively easy to fix.<br>>> Doing a "rescue" mode boot from ISO, one can often fairly easily<br>>> repair a situation like that - notably adding or even otherwise fixing<br>>> missing or broken boot bits, without need to reinstall. And, at least<br>>> from what I seem to gather glancing through some relevant Debian<br>>> documentation, looks like Debian, at least now, also well supports<br>>> running "rescue"<br>>> mode from fairly common install ISOs, and well supports, e.g.<br>>> speech, and other accessibility capabilities there too - quite similar<br>>> to when doing install - just slightly different set of actions to<br>>> instead go into rescue mode.<br>>><br>>>> Any suggestions & help appreciated, thank you very much for looking<br>>><br>>> Some additional resources one may wish to consider or utilize, Debian<br>>> does also have excellent lists and support. Might even be able to<br>>> search out an answer there or other useful information.<br>>> Debian also has pretty darn good live interactive support on IRC, that<br>>> can be a quite good resource - I usually find it very good for faster<br>>> and/or interactive response/information, when the issue or matter<br>>> isn't too horribly complex or rare, etc. Also, the Debian IRC stuff<br>>> is publicly logged, so, e.g. if an answer or useful response comes<br>>> later after one has dropped off, can often review the IRC logs to pick<br>>> up that information later. Anyway, IRC there might be well suited to,<br>>> e.g. help one go through rescue mode, examine and repair the current<br>>> situation.<br>>><br>>> Anyway, yes, there is also CABAL coming in near future - let us know,<br>>> preferably at least wee bit ahead of time, if you'll be coming<br>>> - and in-person, or virtual, and what issues you may still be facing<br>>> at that time ... or maybe you'll update to let us know all has been<br>>> solved by then ... and it's a cool meeting/event to attend in any case<br>>> ... and yummy food if one makes it in person.<br>>><br>>> Oh, might also be good to let us know, if you continue to have issues,<br>>> if you're doing UEFI or MBR install, and if you know if the hardware<br>>> supports just one, or both, and if both, which method you've used on<br>>> installation. And thanks for providing the hardware information -<br>>> that's important, and we may also be able to figure out that and/or<br>>> other relevant information based upon knowing what the hardware is.<br>><br>><br>><br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>conspire mailing list<br><a href="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">conspire@linuxmafia.com</a><br><a href="http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire</a><br></div>
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