<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpeebf06cbyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div>Ivan,</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for all of the information.</div><div><br></div><div>Once there were 2 "major" makers of graphics chips. ATI and nVidia. AMD bought ATI in 2006 and has been building on that technology since them. Other recent emails discussed that AMD tries support Linux.</div><div><br></div><div>I have heard of others using laptops with both Intel and nVidia graphics and having to stop and switch between high speed graphics and low power consumption. I am not a gamer, and don't need that hassle.</div><div><br></div><div>Regarding vintage hardware, I found that NewEgg sells IDE drives with the note that the manufacture no long supports it, but NewEgg has a warranty. That ought to be better than Craigs List. Now I know my problem is a SATA drive so I don't have to go that route.<br></div><div><br></div><div> So I am considering if I should replace the drive, or retire the whole machine in favor of a laptop that possibly has new CPU, etc. Probably not a good use of my time and $ to replace motherboard and RAM and drive(s). So I should consider laptops this weekend. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Paul<br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="ydpa66d4833yahoo_quoted_3419254420" class="ydpa66d4833yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Wednesday, November 21, 2018, 2:48:43 AM PST, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mail@webthatworks.it> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div dir="ltr">On 11/20/18 12:19 PM, Rick Moen wrote:<br clear="none">> Quoting Ivan Sergio Borgonovo (<a shape="rect" href="mailto:mail@webthatworks.it" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">mail@webthatworks.it</a>):<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> I tend to use computers till some of their parts start to be<br clear="none">>> unreliable.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Same here, though in many cases I've given them away before that.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Some of the difference in our perceptions may trace to just the fact<br clear="none">> of Silicon Valley being atypical. At any given time, there's a great<br clear="none">> deal of slightly used and very good hardware floating around (along with<br clear="none">> a great deal that isn't good, of course). Machines two years old can,<br clear="none">> if you poke around, be found in peak condition at high discount.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Probably.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Here there are companies that sell used hardware with warranty.<br clear="none">Full boxes or spare parts.<br clear="none">Their target market is probably other companies.<br clear="none">They are still on business (wondering why).<br clear="none">They are not cheap.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">There are few "retail" shops selling used hardware with warranty.<br clear="none">They are not cheap. Very limited choice.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I could easily find full PCs for 50-150 Euros on websites "a la <br clear="none">Craiglist" without warranty.<br clear="none">Considering my average budget for a new full PC excluding monitors is <br clear="none">around 400 Euros, the savings don't cover the risk (work + something not <br clear="none">working + reduced lifespan).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">If I was looking for something more expensive I'd probably looking for <br clear="none">something more performing and probably new.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">If it is not fun I do value my time very much.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Somehow it is such a pity... it's a lot of avoidable pollution... but <br clear="none">there is no reasonable market here and somehow I can understand the <br clear="none">reason. You'd be a fool giving warranty to PCs without testing them and <br clear="none">testing them once they are out of the factory can be pretty expensive if <br clear="none">done right and in that segment of prices considering other costs you <br clear="none">incur in reselling used PC not worth.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">And... about pollution... one factor to take into account is difference <br clear="none">in power consumption between old and new PCs... somehow across <br clear="none">"generations" there may not be appreciable difference but sometimes <br clear="none">there is a huge difference and even on a "home workstation" it adds up <br clear="none">to the TCO (especially in EU where I think electricity is a bit more <br clear="none">expensive than in US).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> A really big slice of economy now run on Linux. No one would be so<br clear="none">>> crazy to put on the market "common hardware" that can't run Linux<br clear="none">>> and nowaday chipset are highly coupled with the CPU (so coupled I'm<br clear="none">>> not aware of any chipset made by 3rd parties other than the CPU<br clear="none">>> maker).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Well, I just mentioned about the very recent Intel chipset that was<br clear="none">> quite terrible for Linux (instability) for the better part of a year<br clear="none">> after it was already the basis for wildly popular PC models. That's<br clear="none">> really not that uncommon among brand-new motherboard/CP chipsets, sadly.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Probably "consumer" hardware in one of the two categories you mentioned <br clear="none">in an earlier post: cheapo or exotic (look at how many features I can <br clear="none">choke on).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> Notable exceptions are: wifi for notebooks, video boards, ethernets.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Well, here's what happens quite a bit: Broadcom (say) introduces yet<br clear="none">> another cheap ethernet chipset that is only a tiny bit different from<br clear="none">> the prior one, and probably works with one of the existing Linux open<br clear="none">> source drivers with little or no modifiction, except for one little<br clear="none">> problem: It has a new PCI ID identifier, which means that kernel<br clear="none">> autoprobing will not know what driver to modprobe for it. So, all those<br clear="none">> customers buying it as new hardware for Linux will be mystified at the<br clear="none">> apparently unsupported ethernet hardware. _Very_ determined users may<br clear="none">> read a technical analysis or figure out the problem and patch the PCI<br clear="none">> IDs database to compensate, but otherwise users will need to await a new<br clear="none">> packaged kernel incorporating the PCI IDs update.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Buy new reasonably balanced mid range, not cheapo not exotic mobo. Add <br clear="none">20 bucks of Intel network card<br clear="none"><br clear="none">vs.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">spend an hour diagnosing the problem<br clear="none"><br clear="none">wifi can be more tricky since high performance wifi cards cost <br clear="none">definitively more than 20 bucks.<br clear="none">Furthermore a notebook is a mobile device... it has to be light etc... <br clear="none">if it is light it generally is hard to open an swap parts etc...<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">You've to reach compromises and be a bit careful but it's not as bad as <br clear="none">it used to be.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I think for example Steam contributed a bit in having more reasonable <br clear="none">"consumer" video drivers in Linux as well... and there is so much stuff <br clear="none">in the embedded world using wifi and Linux...<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I think a good starting point is always realizing what you really want.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Ivan Sergio Borgonovo<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.webthatworks.it " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.webthatworks.it </a><a shape="rect" href="https://www.borgonovo.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.borgonovo.net</a><div class="ydpa66d4833yqt3245953103" id="ydpa66d4833yqtfd87765"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">conspire mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">conspire@linuxmafia.com</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>