<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33261" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34266">To answer the most important question, although I see no symptoms of citrus greening, the quarantine rules only allow moving of citrus fruit with no leaves and no stems from one property to another. In our case the move would even cross county lines. </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34267">The source of HLB in southern CA was traced to someone getting cuttings from China. </span> We should ask Fred what has happened to the citrus in Florida. Not a pretty picture. The CA agriculture authorities are doing what is needed to protect both industry and home growers.<br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31846"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34338"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34339">Yes, serious botanists have greatly different opinions about the taxonomy of citrus.</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34343"> The
way all science works is that when a new idea is proposed, it will be
vigorously challenged by the "existing" idea which had previously
been well examined. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31915" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34327"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_34326"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427">The traditional classification was based on similarities and differences in appearance. For example, there exist many kinds called "lime" because they are green when ripe.<br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32667"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32931"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32965">More recent DNA analysis claims that only a few million years ago there were 3 "groups" growing near the Himalayas: citron, pummelo, and mandarin. These all cross-bred in the wild. </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32966"><a href="https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/02/explore-food-citrus-genetics/" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32967">https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/02/explore-food-citrus-genetics/ </a></span></span><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33138">For more than 1000 years, humans have deliberately created (or looked for) more hybrids. <br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33139"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33138"><br></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32930"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427">Crosses with kumquats are also possible, but that accounts for only a few of the 1000's of known citrus varieties. <br></span></div><br><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33898"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31427">Dwarfing root stock: Here is something I learned recently. Although many trees are labeled as "dwarf", some trees are so happy that the grow large. If you want a small peach, apple or lemon, the way to do that is to prune it to the size you want. Some people keep them short because they don't like ladders. This can require pruning several times per year. But if a tree is already too big, don't cut back more than 1/3 in one year. Don't think this is an issue with calamondin. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32522"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32595"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31312"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31449" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31448"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31447"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31450"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31916" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32212" size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Rick Moen <rick@linuxmafia.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> conspire@linuxmafia.com <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, August 26, 2018 9:56 PM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32237"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32236">Subject:</span></b> Re: [conspire] Frankensteining a citrus<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_31446"><br>Quoting Paul Zander (<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:paulz@ieee.org" href="mailto:paulz@ieee.org" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_32213">paulz@ieee.org</a>):<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> I just realized that we might have a "name" confusion. <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> You have been talking about calamansi. <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> I was reviewing the things I have growing. One is a calamondin. The<br clear="none">> description also says Kalamansi; Philippine lime. I think this is the<br clear="none">> same thing. <a shape="rect" href="http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/calamondin.html" target="_blank" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1535341400842_33834">http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/calamondin.html</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">Yes, kalamansi = calamansi = calamondin = Philippine lime. On the one<br clear="none">hand, Wikipedia says it's not a true citrus (genus Citrus), but rather<br clear="none">originated as a cross-breed between a citrus (probably mandarin) and<br clear="none">kumquats, which are genus Fortunella. _However_, reading further in<br clear="none">that article, it seems there's been a botanist knife-fight over<br clear="none">kumquats, such that they are proposed to be moved into genus Citrus.<br clear="none">{sigh} <br clear="none"><br clear="none">I've just bought today one of the two dwarf calamansi trees at OSH in<br clear="none">Redwood City. (There is also another still in stock, as of this<br clear="none">afternoon.) Including sales tax, and net of the current<br clear="none">going-out-of-business discount, it cost just over $24, FYI. The<br clear="none">tree superstructure currently stands about 20" above the pot's ground<br clear="none">level. I haven't planted it yet, nor even seriously contemplated places<br clear="none">it might go.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I have to say, although I understand the logic of dwarfing trees that<br clear="none">otherwise would want to, y'know, take Manhattan, it seems to me this<br clear="none">practice interacts poorly with a drought-prone environment such as our<br clear="none">fine western state. If I understand correctly, dwarfing is implemented<br clear="none">either by limiting the space for roots to expand into, or, more<br clear="none">commonly, by grafting the scion species onto the rootstock of a smaller<br clear="none">species that accordingly has a small rootball. Small rootball means<br clear="none">less resilient in the case of water shortage, right? Seems like a mixed<br clear="none">blessing.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">_Anyway_, now I have two problems. I have to decide where to plant the<br clear="none">new dwarf tree, for starters. I _could_ just put it right alongside the <br clear="none">distressed citrus that used to be a calamansi. But I'll look around for<br clear="none">where better.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">And the second problem is what to do with the ex-calamansi rootstock<br clear="none">thing on the north (slightly shaded) side of the greenhouse, which<br clear="none">matter can be deferred until you're next around.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Do I correctly infer from your coverage of itrus greening disease aka<br clear="none">HLB that, upon reflection, you think it unwise to graft as scion at my<br clear="none">house budwood cuttings (such as the mandarins and pommelos) from your<br clear="none">trees? I was unclear on your larger point, beyond saying that<br clear="none">California strongly regulates citris for good reason.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">OSH discounts as they are throttled and killed by Lowe's are described <br clear="none">as '10-30%' at present, which of course means in practice 10% except for<br clear="none">one item in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused<br clear="none">lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">(I never liked Lowe's. All the disadvantages of the Home Depot big-box<br clear="none">model and none of the advantages.<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.businessinsider.com/lowes-is-feeling-the-effects-of-the-brick-and-mortar-meltdown-2018-8" target="_blank">https://www.businessinsider.com/lowes-is-feeling-the-effects-of-the-brick-and-mortar-meltdown-2018-8</a>)<div class="yqt3659976989" id="yqtfd09087"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">conspire mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com" href="mailto:conspire@linuxmafia.com">conspire@linuxmafia.com</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire" target="_blank">http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>