[conspire] 1:2.1.29-1+deb10u5? Re: upgrade-in-place to Mailman 2.1.30 and want to test Mailman3?

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Michael Paoli (michael.paoli at berkeley.edu):

> As for SSD sources, so far I've used ZaReason.com (defunct) and
> Central Computers https://www.centralcomputer.com/ - which has pretty
> reasonable prices, pretty reasonable stock on hand, and you can check
> their catalog and inventory on-line, even have items shipped to one's
> preferred store for pick-up.

I checked https://www.centralcomputer.com/, actually.

In the category of Samsung "internal" (SATA) 2.5 drives, they list three 
models in the QVO product line (ugh).  That's built on cheap & slow &
shorter-life QLC NAND flash, not the TLC (triple-level cell) NAND I
would prefer.  Again, I'm not totally opposed to that; I'm just a little
wary of the quality compromise -- the exact reason why I sought out
Samsung's PRO series (faster, more durable, longer warranty) back in 2013.

Two of the three  models are "out of stock / special order".  That leaves
Samsung MZ-77Q4T0B/AM 4TB 870 QVO SATA III 2.5in Solid State Drive $289.99
https://www.centralcomputer.com/samsung-mz-77q4t0b-am-4tb-870-qvo-sata-iii-2-5in-solid-state-drive-reads-560-mb-s-writes-530-mb-s.html

(Something annoying:  All of Centrol Computer(s)'s detailed product pages
seem to omit _warranty_ information.  Grrr.  Elsewhere, I find:  limited 3
yr. warranty, on this model.)


And, you know, I could make a good argument that dropping $579.98 + tax
on a pair of those, plus whatever a good (better than Vantec) external
case with USB and eSATA connectors, plus a pair of good 1 metre USB-A
cables, maxing out the Compulab with 4TB of mirrored storage, would be a
timely waste^W use of funds.  By "timely" I mean, clearly the market has 
moved on from the CompuLab's era -- which was 11 years ago.  Pretty
soon, buying compatible parts new won't even be feasible or reasonable,
_but_ it's a perfectly nice & adaptable home server in 2024, with
perhaps a decade of economic service in it.  Recap:

Celeron 847E 1.1 GHz dual-core 
2 x gigE
2 x 3Gbps eSATA ports
lots of USB in case I ever want to use it
16GB of Mushkin RAM (DDR3-1333 SO-DIMM)

By "timely" I mean that for $650 I can make sure that for the next
decade it'll never lack for storage, but obviously this class of
drive is on its way out of the market, so I'd need to do it this year.




> And, alas, sounds like Newegg.com is trying to be another Amazon.com.
> :-/  

Yes, exactly what I was thinking.  And, they're kind-of crap at that,
too.

> And, if one wants to continue to see brick and mortar (or click and
> mortar) stores continue to exist, generally good to patronize them, at
> least as reasonably feasible and sensible.

I've always been inclined to give Central Computer(s) about 1.5 cheers out
of a possible 3.  Yes, they have inventory, and yes, sometimes they have 
at least some thin supply of what I might consider buying.  On the other
hand, rather often you hear "Gee, we're out of stock, but you can
special order", which means you pay and wait, and maybe after a long
time (months), or maybe sooner, you get what you want, _or_ you hear
after some months "Sorry, it turns out we can't get that, any more."  

And, if there's any such trouble, you're soft-sold (they're nice and
non-pushy about it) to alternatives that they actually have in stock.
Plus, there's a posted sign (or was for a long time) warning that many
of the items on sale are grey market gear that lacks a manufacturer
warranty of any kind, albeit they reassuringly tell you there's a "store
warranty" to substitute.

There were times in the past when I was happy to buy grey market
components to get lower prices on field-unbundled new parts.  And I
don't totally rule that out.  However, it's just much more reassuring to
have a real manufacturer warranty.  (If nothing else, "store warranty" 
often equates to "Sure, we'll take back this lemon, but your choices in
alternative gear are limited to what we choose to stock.")

On the third hand, Central Computer(s) actually continues to exist and have
inventory in-store, which as you say has ongoing value.

On the fourth hand, I would have absolutely nothing against Internet commerce
_if_ counterfeit/broken units, the "utter sh*t" of which you speak, could 
be weeded out.  E.g., that _was_ the value proposition of NewEgg.com
before its 2016 acquisition by Liaison Interactive and subsequent SPAC
merger -- which was widely predicted by many including me as (to borrow
Cory's term) an enshittification signifier.

(Maybe it's time for a list of enshittification signifiers, to include
SPAC merger, leveraged buyouts, and any foul odor emitted by a private
equity firm.)

I do wish Cory had picked a non-scatological noun.  For reference
without the scatology (to sidestep pearl-clutching), I have an entry on
my "lexicon" page under the name Doctorow's Law of Platforms.
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/lexicon.html#doctorow


> And, egad, that's scary.  I easily see decent ~1TiB new starting
> around $64.99 retail and going up from there.

OK, so, your honest opinion:  Is it safe to just buy the cheap stuff for
a pair of (say) 2TB or 4TB 2.5" SATA SSDs to be used 24x7 in a home
server's RAID1 array?  My caution about quality may be out of date, as
honestly I was well briefed on this subject 11 years ago but not today.
It may be that a generic, randomly selected QLC NAND flash-type SSD is
perfectly fine (especially mirrored) and can be reasonably expected to
have a five-year service life.  Is that now a safe-ish bet?

(As noted further down, the 4TB Samsung does qualify as dirt cheap
on a pure $/GB basis - nearly as cheap as what you mention above.)


Central Computer(s) has (in-store):

PNY SSD7CS900-2TB-RB CS900 2TB Solid State Drive 2.5in $149.95
Samsung MZ-77Q4T0B/AM 4TB 870 QVO SATA III 2.5in $289.99 (as above)

(special order / not-in-stock):

Micron MTFDDAK960TGA-1BC1ZABYYR 5400 PRO 960GB 2.5in Solid State Drive SATA 6Gb/s $108.99
Samsung MZ-77Q1T0B/AM 1TB 870 QVO SATA III 2.5in $119.99
Samsung MZ-77Q2T0B/AM 2TB 870 QVO SATA III 2.5in $154.99

I'm not seeing ~1TiB new drives _there_ (Central Computer(s)) for around
$64.99 retail -- which works out to 6 cents per GB, FWIW.  But I note
that the $289.99 for the 4TB Samsung (QLC NAND flash) drive model
mentioned above works out to only 7 cents per GB -- so, actually
dirt-cheap for that much storage, setting aside my qualm about QLC
flash.

Maybe I should just find suitable non-flimsy USB + eSATA enclosures for
two of those, buy two of those (and a pair of good USB-A cables for
power), and call it a day?

If quality USB + eSATA enclosures for 2.5" drives have become
unobtainium on the new-retail market over the last 11 years, I will be a
sad panda.  That would suck.  (Haven't yet looked up the state of those.)