[conspire] "immunity" (COVID-19, ...) Re: Numbers racket

[Tony Godshall]

On Sun, May 3, 2020, 10:00 AM paulz at ieee.org <paulz at ieee.org> wrote:

> ELI5,  I like that.  Can I borrow it?
>
> Not quite sure if a 5 year old could follow the explanation, but it would
> be no problem for a 5th grader.  And it has been demonstrated that 5th
> graders are more intelligent than many adults.
>

"Protein" is probably a little too abstract for a five year old.



> Maybe my previous understanding was backwards.  Maybe the question is "why
> do we tend to think that most illnesses are specific to one species?"
>
> On Saturday, May 2, 2020, 4:31:52 PM PDT, Deirdre Saoirse Moen <
> deirdre at deirdre.net> wrote:
>
>
> The ELI5 (explain like I’m 5) is that viruses need to bind to proteins to
> enter a cell and that many of those proteins are either the same (or
> similar enough) because of how immunity evolved.
>
> One of the reasons that so many viruses come from (or via) bats, fwiw, is
> three-fold: bats, being mammals, have closer immune systems to humans than
> birds; bats comprise 1/4 of all mammal species; bats fly (and migrate) and
> therefore spread them in more interesting ways than, say, a badger might.
>
> Deirdre
>
> On May 2, 2020, at 3:50 PM, "paulz at ieee.org" <paulz at ieee.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Maybe someone the list can answer this without too much technicalities.
>
> My (miss) understanding was that most diseases are specific to one
> species.  Most animal diseases don't infect humans and vice versa.  A few
> years ago there was an avian flu that raised a lot of concern because it
> could sicken both birds and people. Why is this?
>
> Now I am hearing stories about tigers, dogs and cats with Covid19.  I
> won't ask how the animals got tested.
>
> On Friday, May 1, 2020, 10:05:55 PM PDT, Deirdre Saoirse Moen <
> deirdre at deirdre.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2020, at 19:23, Michael Paoli <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
> (I recall hearing several examples, AIDs
>  being just one such example ... body builds anti-bodies, but not
>  immunity (with possibly some very rare exceptions? ... I heard several
>  other common examples, but forget specifically what they were).
>
>
> Immunity isn’t always a binary either.
>
> 1. Human herpesviruses, as DNA viruses, don’t have full immunity as those
> become part of the infected cells for life and part of the host cell's
> chromosomes. This is why the chickenpox vaccine (preventing the infection
> from taking hold) is different from the shingles vaccine (preventing
> reactivation of a latent infection years or decades later).
>
> 2. HIV, special case of the DNA virus because it’s an RNA->DNA virus (and
> then analogous to above re chromosomes) and does some mojo. It’s
> particularly complex. Worth ten minutes:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g1ijpBI6Dk
>
> Why HIV is so particularly deadly: it targets the helper cells that help
> the immune system fight off infections and the virus sits there in the
> nucleus…until that cell is activated. Then when it’s activated, *boom*.
>
> 3. Dengue, where you do create antibodies, and you might have immunity…or
> anti-immunity, depending on a) strain you had vs. strain you have next; b)
> how strong an immune memory you have on subsequent exposure; c) whether or
> not the immune response *itself* causes the virus to gain entry into the
> cells more readily.
>
>
> https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/host-response-to-the-dengue-virus-22402106/
>
> I tried to find a good video about ADE in dengue and found…nothing that
> was useful to a layperson and under 15 minutes. :P
>
> That said, both of these are short and interesting and about viral
> replication of dengue and cool animations in their own right.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LhWuaTRCME
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8hLI3lXE38
>
> The special point about #2 and #3 in particular is that the virus
> specifically targets cells that are part of the immune system (or in #3
> *can* target them), which is not typically true of viruses. It’s why
> they’re sort of an extra special effect, if you will.
>
> Why this is a concern with all viruses/vaccines, though is that almost all
> cells have *some* antibody signaling proteins on them, and we need to
> understand how the virus gains entry both under regular circumstances and
> under special circumstances (e.g., ADE) to make sure that special case
> doesn’t happen as a result of a vaccine.
>
> Deirdre
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