[conspire] Auto Immune

[Texx]

I am having an absolute cow tryi8ng to keep up with all the things Im
trying to stay up to date on and am struggling.
But yah, Im trying to understand this cytokine storm thing.

Some of what you guys said, Id picked up already but some I hadnt and I
appreciate the clarification.
I spotted a similarity between the virus related cytokine storm and
autoimune, hence the question,
although the storm is a LOT MORE intense than a Lupus flare.

I had a prof who once commented that genetically males were fragile.

Theres a certain amount of junk science, more than usual, and I was
researching something and then realized how little I knew about cytokines.
What I am gaining is an understanding of where some of this junk science
comes from.
Some of the logic you can even follow.  Its flawed of course, but you can
follow it.

One of the first doctors to catch the virus up in WA almost died from a
cytokine storm, but hes recovering now.
I dont think hes back on duty yet.  Those ventilators do a fair amount of
lung damage on top of what the virus dishes out.
It was an interesting interview.

Sad that so many people dont know the difference between a CPAP and a
ventilator.





On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 9:26 PM Deirdre Saoirse Moen <deirdre at deirdre.net>
wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Texx wrote:
>
> I only know a little about auto immune issues, but I believe we have at
> least one person on this list dealing with it.
>
> Are cytokines part of the problem in auto immune disease (Lupus,
> Rheumatoid Arthritus etc) ?
>
>
> Oooh, I've learned a lot on this in the last couple weeks.
>
> First, a fascinating tidbit: one of the reasons women suffer more from
> autoimmune issues is the X chromosome is longer than the Y chromosome. So,
> having two copies, women get more immune signalling capability, as that's
> mostly what's encoded in that length difference. That has its advantages
> and disadvantages.
>
> Second, it means women (of the XX sort) tend to live longer, on average
> (globally), even when you take maternal mortality into consideration,
> because disease fighting capability. Note that even though women have
> higher BMIs generally and are more likely to be obese *and* obesity's been
> a stated factor for winding up in the hospital/ICU/dying of COVID-19, the
> numbers consistently show that's not happening. [1]
>
> Now, onto your question: Yes and no. They're a signaling molecule, and
> when you hear antibody, for example, that is ONE type of cytokine.
>
> So basically part of the function of your immune system is to keep your
> various parts where they're expected to be, and that's complicated.
> Self/non-self recognition is incredibly complex and imperfect and is
> intended to keep your organs and muscles and stuff intact, but also keep
> cancers from spreading. Unfortunately, this also means that things can be
> mis-recognized if they appear too similar, which is what celiac disease is.
> (Oh? Gluten attached to an intestinal cell? Let's destroy that fucker!
> Seriously.)
>
> The cytokine storm that is killing COVID-19 patients is interesting, and
> I've been reading up on it and it's…horrifying. It is actually more
> dengue-like than I thought at first, I just didn't have the words to do the
> search.
>
> So in antibody-dependent enhancement a la dengue, having antibodies to one
> form helps the immune system say, "Ah, I know this, let's make some
> cytokines!"
>
> Except it just keeps going and going and going like the everready bunny.
> In dengue, this can cause a hemorrhagic form if you catch it a second (or
> later) time.
>
> https://www.statnews.com/2017/11/02/dengue-second-infection/
>
> Well, it turns out that that is actually more common than we thought, it's
> just that it's more obvious in dengue infections than in other viruses.
>
> So it turns out that the problem with creating vaccines, and the problem
> with injecting convalescent plasma, etc., is figuring out the right load to
> *not* create a cytokine storm. Because you want to kick the immune system,
> you just don't want to drop kick it.
>
> And therein lies the rub.
>
> See comments here:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fzvbgs/the_sarscov2_receptorbinding_domain_elicits_a/
>
> Deirdre
>
>
> [1] Except Kansas, which is weirdly, the only jurisdiction globally I've
> seen with flipped statistics. But, you know, Kansas.
> https://public.tableau.com/profile/kdhe.epidemiology#!/vizhome/COVID-19Data_15851817634470/KSCOVID-19CaseData
>
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-- 

R "Texx" Woodworth
Sysadmin, E-Postmaster, IT Molewhacker
"Face down, 9 edge 1st, roadkill on the information superdata highway..."
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