[conspire] OT: More about conversations with police (was: Here in the 100-mile border zone)

[Nick Moffitt]

On 15Jul2019 03:08am (-0700), Rick Moen wrote:
> > Even before this immigration witchhunt, my household has held
> > family discussions about what to do (and not to do) if police ever 
> > arrive and start being pushy.
> 
> If you do nothing else related to this thread, see this entertaining and
> enlightening (and now modestly famous) video:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
> 
> This is an eye-opening 26-minute talk by a law professor explaining why 
> you should always, always, always exercise your 5th Amendment right and
> politely say nothing whenever the police (or other law enforcement
> figures) 'just want to talk to you' or 'just want to ask you a few
> questions'.   Make NO STATEMENT TO THE POLICE, period, at least until
> you have spoken to legal counsel and can rely on legal advice.

I served jury duty in the Isleworth Crown Court a couple of years ago, having never actually made it into jury duty in my three decades living in the US (largely because I never had any DMV records).  I had some firm ideas about the process from my US upbringing, but found it astonishing where the UK differs.

In particular, the UK police "caution" (moral equivalent of the Miranda Rights Statement) goes like this:

	You do not have to say anything,
	but it may harm your defence if you do not mention,
	when questioned,
	something you later rely on in court.
	Anything you do say may be given in evidence. 

This bit about what you do *not* say harming your defence struck me as troublesome, and it came up in one of the cases I sat (UK jury duty is for a set time period, and you often hear a few small cases).  I explained to the rest of the jury that in the US you are strongly advised to keep your interactions with police to roughly these two questions:

	1. Am I free to go?
	2. Are you preventing me from speaking to my lawyer?

On the strength of the back story to this, everyone kind of voluntarily agreed to disregard or de-emphasise the point about statements not made to the police in our particular case.

The next point was about the suspect's perceived flight from the officer who first saw him.  I just muttered under my breath, "Mr. Finch, you'd run too." at which point the Foreman insisted I explain what I meant.  If you ever need someone who can summarise key points of American literature to a hostile audience in record time, apparently I'm your man because that bit got voluntarily de-emphasised as well.