[conspire] Sat. Hope I remember 2bring my corn chips

Wed Sep 6 22:40:51 PDT 2017

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 9/4/17,  <conspire-request at linuxmafia.com> wrote:

 Subject: conspire Digest, Vol 167, Issue 3
 To: conspire at linuxmafia.com
 Date: Monday, September 4, 2017, 1:00 AM

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 Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Elise's laptop (Rick
 Moen)
    2. Re: Elise's laptop (Rick
 Moen)
    3. Re: Elise's laptop (Dana
 Goyette)
    4. Re: Elise's laptop (Rick
 Moen)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 21:22:41 -0700
 From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
 To: Elise Scher <elise.scher01 at gmail.com>
 Cc: conspire at linuxmafia.com
 Subject: Re: [conspire] Elise's laptop
 Message-ID: <20170904042241.GI17518 at linuxmafia.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=utf-8

 Quoting Elise Scher (elise.scher01 at gmail.com):

 > Hi Rick,
 >      I am about to
 look at Little Blue. HP Stream. Model 11-r010nr, S/N
 > 5CD5387LQL, P/N N5X86UA#ABA. I
 will take pictures of bottom and send to you.

 Hi, Elise!  Thanks for the mail
 (and photos).  Seems like a really nice
 little notebook.  And light!

 Some notes in passing about the wee
 beastie:

 Intel Celeron N3050 'Bay Trail' (dual
 core) 1.6 GHz, which is 64-bit (yay!)
 Probably comes with either 2 GB or 4 GB
 DDR3L SDRAM -- but best to  
    assume it's 2GB, which is a
 pity and (with the CPU) makes this a bit
    challenging to get decent
 performance on modern desktop Linux
 Comes with an SSD, not a hard drive
 (might be on account of limited
    space inside, but that's
 fine).  SSDs are awesome.  Capacity probably
 32GB.
 11.6" LED screen able to do 1366x768
 pixels
 Intel 'HD' integrated graphics
 Wireless chip: 802.11bgn (but this is
 an option, hence might be 
   present, or might not), probably
 Broadcom BCM43142, driver name 'wl'.
 Some touchpad or other
 1 x USB 2.0 port
 1 x USB 3.0 port
 2.6 pounds
 no optical disc included
 fanless design (hence silent, which is
 excellent)
 Memory slot is said to be 'not user
 accessible', which only
    means it's a bit more trouble
 to get to than usual.
 Slot for several types of flash media
 (SD cards, etc.)
 Some audio chip, not well documented
 HDMI video port
 headphone + microphone combo jack
 apparently has _no_ ethernet LAN port
 probably includes a webcam
 there's Bluetooth, but getting it going
 requires some work

 This wee beastie was marketed as a
 'cloud computing' appliance, not
 really as a standalone computer. 
 They loaded it with Window 10 Home 
 and included a one-year subscription to
 MS Office 365 Personal, where
 the MS-Office applications mostly run
 off of Microsoft's cloud computing
 cluster, and by default your data files
 would live there, too (if I
 recall correctly).  

 Basically, it's a lightweight 'cloud'
 appliance bitty-box, like a Google
 Chromebook but bundled with Microsoft
 'cloud' subscription stuff.

 However, have no fear:  This
 machine has (probably? maybe?) enough grunt
 for a reasonably modest Linux desktop
 distribution like Linux Mint,
 though it's certainly not a _fast_
 machine by 2017 standards.  You'll
 need to be a little careful not to
 burden it with too heavy-weight
 desktop software.  Make no
 mistake, though:  The CPU is a bit anemic
 by 2017 standards.

 Here's a slightly sobering article
 about installing desktop Linux on a
 similar HP Stream 11 model:
 http://thepurdman.com/install-galliumos-linux-on-hp-stream-11/

 I need to explain that article's main
 points:

 1.  He found it necessary for
 performance's sake to skip the
 heavy-weight Linux distros like Ubuntu
 _and_ even the main Linux Mint
 variants.  He went with a
 lighter-weight variant of Xubuntu, the 
 XFCE4 Desktop flavour of Ubuntu called
 'GalliumOS'.  XFCE4 is less
 stressful on hardware than any of the
 GNOME variants in Mint and Ubuntu.

 2.  After experimenting, he also
 gave up on the internal wifi chip and
 bought a $9 USB-wifi adapter off Amazon
 that works better.  
 https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811Un-150Mbps-Raspberry-Supports/dp/B003MTTJOY
 He says the notebook's internal chip
 just isn't very good, with range
 and dropout problems.  It is a
 very good idea to have in your possession
 any such software at the time of Linux
 conversion, so you might wish to
 order such a thing now.

 Even better than XFCE4 for a relatively
 low-end notebook would be a
 distro furnishing the nice but modest
 LXDE desktop environment, such as
 _Lubuntu._  I will probably make a
 point of having the latest Lubuntu
 for x86_64 around, too.

 Hope to see you on Saturday, Sept.
 9th.  CABAL meetings during the
 summer and fall are leisurely, outdoor
 affairs.  I enjoy cooking for 
 company, often on the outdoor
 grill.  There is always plenty of food 
 to share, nobody is obliged to bring
 any, but, if you want to be sure 
 of having what's to your taste, the
 best way is to bring something or
 you never know for sure what'll be
 here.

 (Some of the regulars are really good
 cooks, but, for example, I felt
 awful once when a new attendee arrived
 who was evidently a religious
 Hindu on on one occasion when I
 happened to be grilling hamburgers.)

 ------------------------------

 Message: 2
 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 22:41:02 -0700
 From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
 To: Elise Scher <elise.scher01 at gmail.com>
 Cc: conspire at linuxmafia.com
 Subject: Re: [conspire] Elise's laptop
 Message-ID: <20170904054102.GA24492 at linuxmafia.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=utf-8

 I wrote:

 > 2.  After experimenting, he
 also gave up on the internal wifi chip and
 > bought a $9 USB-wifi adapter off
 Amazon that works better.  
 > https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811Un-150Mbps-Raspberry-Supports/dp/B003MTTJOY
 > He says the notebook's internal
 chip just isn't very good, with range
 > and dropout problems.  It is
 a very good idea to have in your possession
 > any such software at the time of
 Linux conversion, so you might wish to

 ^^^^^^^^
 > order such a thing now.

 Er, I mean _hardware_.  Point is,
 if you wish to mail-order such a thing
 online and have it in your custody
 before the CABAL meeting, you should 
 order it really soon because of
 delivery delay.

 When I mentioned that the SDRAM memory
 stick in your notebook is type
 'DDR3L', I mean that's a special
 low-voltage (hence 'L') variety, and
 are not compatible with regular DDR3
 memory.  But that's trivia.  More
 important:  Further reading
 suggests that the Stream 11 series has RAM
 integrated into (soldered permanently
 onto) the motherboard, which would
 be why it's considered 'not user
 serviceable'.  So, whatever total RAM
 your notebook has is the maximum it can
 have, because there's no RAM
 socket, not even one you get to by
 taking the chassis apart.  (If you're
 lucky, maybe yours shipped with 4GB
 RAM, but 2GB is more likely.

 Since upgrading RAM is not going to be
 a go, if you ever find the
 notebook's 32GB SSD cramped, the
 obvious remedy would be to buy and plug
 into it as 16, 32, or 64GB SD card, as
 additional storage.  They're
 really cheap, under $20.

 In theory, you could also replace the
 32GB SSD with one the same
 physical size but more capacity, _but_
 that requires dissembling the
 chassis, which would be not difficult
 but a little tedious.  Video:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A8IYOwe7EY

 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 23:07:53 -0700
 From: Dana Goyette <danagoyette at gmail.com>
 To: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
 Cc: Conspire List <conspire at linuxmafia.com>
 Subject: Re: [conspire] Elise's laptop
 Message-ID:

 <CABS_1wF8BnGg__GWzJ5Ou24BriA7-GC7ULo_dXTR+fOD+ca-JQ at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset="utf-8"

 Intel Bay Trail is a SoC (System on a
 Chip), and that platform has more
 problems with Linux support than the
 more standard platforms.

 Most Bay Trail systems have a 64-bit
 CPU but 32-bit EFI, so the OS can be
 installed in EFI mode if you use a
 32-bit EFI version of Grub.  This site
 has a script to make adjustments like
 this to the Ubuntu ISOs:
 https://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com

 I think Broadcom has actually gotten a
 bit better with openness in their
 newer chips, yet still refuses to fix
 the distribution issues for the
 firmware on the older chips.  The
 new drivers are called brcmsmac and
 brcmfmac.

 I couldn't find online (at least with a
 quick search) whether the Stream 11
 has an SDIO wifi card or a PCIe one.

 On Sep 3, 2017 9:27 PM, "Rick Moen"
 <rick at linuxmafia.com>
 wrote:

 > Quoting Elise Scher (elise.scher01 at gmail.com):
 >
 > > Hi Rick,
 > >      I am
 about to look at Little Blue. HP Stream. Model 11-r010nr,
 S/N
 > > 5CD5387LQL, P/N N5X86UA#ABA.
 I will take pictures of bottom and send to
 > you.
 >
 > Hi, Elise!  Thanks for the
 mail (and photos).  Seems like a really nice
 > little notebook.  And light!
 >
 > Some notes in passing about the
 wee beastie:
 >
 > Intel Celeron N3050 'Bay Trail'
 (dual core) 1.6 GHz, which is 64-bit (yay!)
 > Probably comes with either 2 GB or
 4 GB DDR3L SDRAM -- but best to
 >    assume it's 2GB,
 which is a pity and (with the CPU) makes this a bit
 >    challenging to get
 decent performance on modern desktop Linux
 > Comes with an SSD, not a hard
 drive (might be on account of limited
 >    space inside, but
 that's fine).  SSDs are awesome.  Capacity
 probably
 > 32GB.
 > 11.6" LED screen able to do
 1366x768 pixels
 > Intel 'HD' integrated graphics
 > Wireless chip: 802.11bgn (but this
 is an option, hence might be
 >   present, or might not),
 probably Broadcom BCM43142, driver name 'wl'.
 > Some touchpad or other
 > 1 x USB 2.0 port
 > 1 x USB 3.0 port
 > 2.6 pounds
 > no optical disc included
 > fanless design (hence silent,
 which is excellent)
 > Memory slot is said to be 'not
 user accessible', which only
 >    means it's a bit more
 trouble to get to than usual.
 > Slot for several types of flash
 media (SD cards, etc.)
 > Some audio chip, not well
 documented
 > HDMI video port
 > headphone + microphone combo jack
 > apparently has _no_ ethernet LAN
 port
 > probably includes a webcam
 > there's Bluetooth, but getting it
 going requires some work
 >
 > This wee beastie was marketed as a
 'cloud computing' appliance, not
 > really as a standalone
 computer.  They loaded it with Window 10 Home
 > and included a one-year
 subscription to MS Office 365 Personal, where
 > the MS-Office applications mostly
 run off of Microsoft's cloud computing
 > cluster, and by default your data
 files would live there, too (if I
 > recall correctly).
 >
 > Basically, it's a lightweight
 'cloud' appliance bitty-box, like a Google
 > Chromebook but bundled with
 Microsoft 'cloud' subscription stuff.
 >
 > However, have no fear:  This
 machine has (probably? maybe?) enough grunt
 > for a reasonably modest Linux
 desktop distribution like Linux Mint,
 > though it's certainly not a _fast_
 machine by 2017 standards.  You'll
 > need to be a little careful not to
 burden it with too heavy-weight
 > desktop software.  Make no
 mistake, though:  The CPU is a bit anemic
 > by 2017 standards.
 >
 > Here's a slightly sobering article
 about installing desktop Linux on a
 > similar HP Stream 11 model:
 > http://thepurdman.com/install-galliumos-linux-on-hp-stream-11/
 >
 > I need to explain that article's
 main points:
 >
 > 1.  He found it necessary for
 performance's sake to skip the
 > heavy-weight Linux distros like
 Ubuntu _and_ even the main Linux Mint
 > variants.  He went with a
 lighter-weight variant of Xubuntu, the
 > XFCE4 Desktop flavour of Ubuntu
 called 'GalliumOS'.  XFCE4 is less
 > stressful on hardware than any of
 the GNOME variants in Mint and Ubuntu.
 >
 > 2.  After experimenting, he
 also gave up on the internal wifi chip and
 > bought a $9 USB-wifi adapter off
 Amazon that works better.
 > https://www.amazon.com/Edimax-EW-7811Un-150Mbps-Raspberry-
 > Supports/dp/B003MTTJOY
 > He says the notebook's internal
 chip just isn't very good, with range
 > and dropout problems.  It is
 a very good idea to have in your possession
 > any such software at the time of
 Linux conversion, so you might wish to
 > order such a thing now.
 >
 >
 > Even better than XFCE4 for a
 relatively low-end notebook would be a
 > distro furnishing the nice but
 modest LXDE desktop environment, such as
 > _Lubuntu._  I will probably
 make a point of having the latest Lubuntu
 > for x86_64 around, too.
 >
 > Hope to see you on Saturday, Sept.
 9th.  CABAL meetings during the
 > summer and fall are leisurely,
 outdoor affairs.  I enjoy cooking for
 > company, often on the outdoor
 grill.  There is always plenty of food
 > to share, nobody is obliged to
 bring any, but, if you want to be sure
 > of having what's to your taste,
 the best way is to bring something or
 > you never know for sure what'll be
 here.
 >
 > (Some of the regulars are really
 good cooks, but, for example, I felt
 > awful once when a new attendee
 arrived who was evidently a religious
 > Hindu on on one occasion when I
 happened to be grilling hamburgers.)
 >
 >
 >
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > conspire mailing list
 > conspire at linuxmafia.com
 > http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire
 >
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 ------------------------------

 Message: 4
 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 23:49:47 -0700
 From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
 To: Dana Goyette <danagoyette at gmail.com>
 Cc: Conspire List <conspire at linuxmafia.com>
 Subject: Re: [conspire] Elise's laptop
 Message-ID: <20170904064947.GJ17518 at linuxmafia.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=utf-8

 Quoting Dana Goyette (danagoyette at gmail.com):

 > Intel Bay Trail is a SoC (System
 on a Chip), and that platform has more
 > problems with Linux support than
 the more standard platforms.
 > 
 > Most Bay Trail systems have a
 64-bit CPU but 32-bit EFI, so the OS can be
 > installed in EFI mode if you use a
 32-bit EFI version of Grub.  This site
 > has a script to make adjustments
 like this to the Ubuntu ISOs:
 > https://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com

 Specific link for that script below.

 Lots of hits when searching about Bay
 Trail badness when doing Linux,
 including random freezes, such as:
 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Linux-Bay-Trail-Fail
 http://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com/2016/10/running-ubuntu-on-intel-bay-trail-and.html
 http://linuxiumcomau.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/customizing-ubuntu-isos-documentation.html

 The script makes alterations to a
 *buntu or Mint (etc.) 64-bit ISO's
 contents while copying it to a USB
 flash stick for installation, so that
 you can boot (as you describe) a 64-bit
 OS from a 32-bit bootloader, and
 make other changes like upgrading the
 OS kernel and a bunch of other
 improvements.

 So, maybe we should go with the flow
 and use that with Lubuntu.

 The one thing that puzzles me about
 that is whether it really makes
 sense to install a x86_64 distro
 (instead of an IA32 one) on a netbook
 that almost certainly has only 2GB
 RAM.  IIRC, x86_64 has advantages
 really only if you have over 4GB
 RAM.  But otherwise, looks like a good
 plan.

 ------------------------------

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 http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/conspire

 End of conspire Digest, Vol 167, Issue
 3
 ****************************************