[conspire] Warning: You'll never get your time back from this thread
Ross Bernheim
ROSSBERNHEIM9307 at comcast.net
Sun May 8 12:15:05 PDT 2016
Rick,
I feel your pain with cables that aren’t what they seem. I’ve been lucky and
haven’t had troubles with charge only cables as I toss them as soon as I find
them.
The USB ‘standard’ is so weak because they allow so many variations to be
called compliant with the standard. USB is ‘inclusive’. If the cable connectors
fit, it is USB compliant! You’ve only run across some of the ‘fun’ this can
create.
USB C already has had problems that brick and or fry equipment because
cable makers have done the same stellar job of following the ‘standard’.
Now Intel wants to add audio to the USB C connector and standard. I
think I’ll wait a while until they can work out all the problems and no
longer fry computers. Digital audio over the USB C will mean I need a
new collection of headphones or earbuds to use them and they will of
course need electronics to do the D/A conversion and amplification
which will make them more expensive! Gee thanks Intel.
While I was not fond of Apple’s changing connectors every couple of years
for their video, at least things with the same connector or adaptors worked
as they had a real standard and enforced it. The most painful change was
when they went from SCSI to Firewire. They have done it again with the
Lightning cables. A cable with a ‘chip’ in it so you can’t find a reasonably
priced cable. USB C is Intel and friend’s answer to an everything through
one connector.
The problem with everything through one connector is that while it eliminates
a lot of connectors on the computer, (saves space, weight and cost for the
computer manufacturer), it means that we need a fancy, (and expensive),
breakout box on the other end to attach all the stuff we wan to attach to
the computer. Not sure this is a real advance for us consumers.
The Kindle and tablet problems are familiar to me. I’ve been using Kindles
for years and have gone through three upgrades, (for better screens as my
eyes age). I am currently using a Paperwhite and enjoy it for reading books.
Micro USB to A and it mounts as a mass storage device that my Mac’s can
directly access and Calibre works with it.
I also have a couple of Kindle Fire 8.9” tablets. An HD and HDX. The HD lives
bedside where its weight is not a handicap. The lighter HDX is on my desk and
also travels with me. Both are quite capable and the WiFi and Bluetooth work
as expected. Amazon has disabled full use of the USB port. Charging is fine,
but both use MTP rather than mass storage so the Mac can’t see or use them.
This makes transferring things between the tablets and Mac a pain. I need to
set up ftp on the tablet and use WiFi to do the job. Calibre on the Mac does
see and connect to the Fire tablets using MTP so I can sync and transfer
books and documents.
A pox on Microsoft, Google, Intel and Apple!
Quit the walled garden and proprietary connectors, programs, file formats, and
DRM.
Let us really own what we buy. Yes there will be some who abuse, but they do
already. Most of us are relatively
honest and will pay for value and support.
Ross
> On May 8, 2016, at 12:34 AM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
>
>
> The best-equipped and most reliable local retail vendor for computer
> parts and supplies, is Central Computer, with six Bay Area stores plus
> one in China.
>
> Or is it Central Computers? Or is it Central Computer System?
>
>
> For long years living in San Francisco, Concord, San Francisco again,
> San Mateo, San Francisco again, and finally Menlo Park, various Central
> Computer retail locations have always been my go-to. Fry's, you say?
> Don't make me laugh. You trudge through the warehouse-style experience
> that is Fry's Electronics, but find that their apparently large
> selection is mostly junk, and so their selection of what you would
> _want_ is small. Nice weekly specials, if you happen to want what
> they're stocking up this week.
>
> But, hey, a few years back, I looked for their Web site, and it's
> https://www.centralcomputers.com/ . Header image in large block sans
> serif letters says 'CENTRAL COMPUTERS'.
>
> So, I had to wonder, had I gotten it subtly wrong all these years?
> Is this the first sign of dementia, and next I'll be calling my wife
> from Watsonville saying I have no idea how I got there?
>
> Store Hours and Locations page has photos of their storefronts, showing
> the firm's name in big letters:
>
> Pleasanton: Central Computers
> Sunnyvale: Central Computers
> Santa Clara (HQ): Central Computer
> San Francisco: Central Computer
> Newark: Central Computers
> San Mateo: Central Computers
> Shenzen City: Central Computers
>
> Copyright notice in the page footer says Central Computers. Company
> profile page says 'Central Computers, Inc.' Careers / Employment page
> says the name of the firm is 'Central Computer System'. Employment
> application form says 'Central Computers, Inc.' Twitter handle is
> @centralcomputer with an associated identifier string of 'Central
> Computers'.
>
> Best guess: This is the Hamlet of computer retailers: They've never
> made up their mind.
>
>
> Locally in Menlo Park, see also the small but excellent food market
> at Willow Road and Middlefield -- the one that stocks 1,000 microbrews
> -- which has a side on one side saying 'Willow Market' and one on the
> other side saying 'Willows Market'.
>
>
> Here, let me to try to save you from this thread being a -total- loss of
> your time:
>
> I have two eBook readers, a small Kindle DO110 (4th Gen) that is pretty
> much a dedicated book device, and a much larger Nook Tablet BNTV250.
> The Kindle was nearly out of power, so I looked around for the crummy
> USB cable we bought for it while traveling - and temporarily couldn't
> find it. (It later turned up, exactly where I left it so I could find
> it easily.)
>
> One end of the temporarily missing cable is the USB A-Type male that
> everyone knows because it's what plugs into your computer ports. See:
> http://www.cablestogo.com/learning/connector-guides/usb The other is
> Micro-USB B male, the one with slanted sides. (Again, see page, which
> make these and other variations of physical connectors clear.)
>
>
> I rummaged in my knapsack (not to be confused with napping in your
> rucksack). I found four other apparently just-like-that cables, and
> borrowed one from Deirdre.
>
> Surely all cables with USB A-Type male at one end and Micro-USB B male
> at the other are functionally interchangeable, right? The universe
> cannot be that perverse, can it? (Ah, you're way ahead of me. Of
> course it can.)
>
> o Two were identifiable as the charging cables that came with my
> Revolights kit (http://revolights.com/) for my bicycle. There's a
> Li-Ion battery for each wheel hub. To charge them, you detach them
> and use the provided USB cable from a computer or something to
> provide +5V DC charging power.
>
> o One was actually a USB A-Type male cabled to a USB Mini-b (5-pin)
> male -- again, see page illustration -- plugged into an adapter.
> The adapter was USB Mini-b (5-pin) female on one side and Micro-USB
> B male on the other.
>
> o One turned out _not_ to be the right sort. It was USB A-Type male
> on one end and a proprietary Samsung cellular telephone male
> connector on the other -- left over from a discarded mobile phone.
> It got put aside and will be donated to Goodwill Industries or
> someone.
>
> o The one borrowed from Deirdre, USB A-Type male to Micro-USB B male.
>
>
> With each of these in turn, I connected my Kindle to my laptop.
> Charging power started arriving at the Kindle, but the laptop OS
> could not mount it (as normal and necessary for putting books on and
> off).
>
> I had to wonder: Is the Kindle defective? Is the laptop OS USB
> service wonky? I USB-connected my backup hard drive to the laptop.
> To my relief, it mounted. OK, computer's fine. I borrowed Deirdre's
> known-good and essentially identical mini-Kindle: None of the four
> candidate cables could mount it.
>
> So, I thought, broken Kindle, or four broken cables?
>
> Then, I realised, wait, people often use USB cables for non-data
> purposes, most notably charging devices needing +5V DC, and so it's
> _very_ likely cables for that purpose don't bother to connect all the
> pins, just the ones for power. The Revolights cables were case in
> point, and I looked at them closely: Not only were the connectors
> exactly what are used for data, but each end also bears the familiar
> USB-indicating forking-path logo (see diagrams). The cable thickness
> also was wide enough to carry all signals, but my best guess is they
> don't.
>
> So, my takeaway is that you _cannot_ determine what alleged USB cables
> can actually do USB just by looking at them. So, it's an extremely
> good idea to label such cables as soon as possible, while you still
> remember what they came with and what they're for.
>
> Which I've now done.
>
> The missing crummy cable turned up -- stuffed conveniently into my
> laptop bag. I used it with the Kindle, which duly mounted -- so the
> Kindle is back to known-good. I call the cable 'crummy' because
> somewhere in the flat-ribbon cable is a developing wire break, such that
> connected devices unmount if you jostle the cable.
>
> I have a replacement cable on order from mail order.
>
> The USB A-Type male to USB Mini-b (5-pin) male cable joined to an
> adapter to Micro-USB B male turns out to be mystery. I cannot determine
> exactly why the Kindle doesn't mount. Maybe the cable is power-only,
> not data. Maybe the adapter is. Maybe both. I'd love to see if the
> cable can be used to mount a Mini-USB block device.
>
> I don't have a Mini-USB-connectable _block_ device, but my Motorola
> RAZRv3 flip-phone has that kind of jack. Mini-USB was essentially a
> mid-2000s connector, so that fits, as it's a 2005-2007 mobile.
>
> I should explain: USB is less a connection type than it is a cabling
> and electrical standard over which all sorts of crazy protocols can be
> layered. One of those crazy protocols is MTP, Media Transfer Protocol,
> which is essentially serial communication with some file metadata
> headers, and ability to send commands such as 'Please delete the
> following named remote file'. So, this is tantamount to talking to your
> mobile over a modem line. (Very similar is PTP, Picture Transfer Protocol.)
>
> My antique Motorola's RAZRv3 is problematic to talk to over your choice
> of PTP-flavour USB or Bluetooth; this was covered in some detail in a
> 2006 Linux Gazette discussion in which I participated
> (http://linuxgazette.net/134/misc/lg/talkback_133_tag_html.html). I've
> succeeded in the recent past over USB, to take photos off and to
> change the ring tone to Stephen Colbert saying 'Your phone is ringing!
> Your phone is ringing!' -- but haven't succeeded lately. This problem
> will doubtless get resolved via a replacement mobile from the current
> decade. Meanwhile, I don't know what if anything ails that cable (let
> along the associated adapter to Micro-USB B male), and have marked it
> accordingly.
>
>
> Separate from the foregoing mess is the Nook Tablet. This is a heavy,
> full-size tablet computer, colour screen, came with its own charger
> with a long cable. I rummaged and refound that charger + long cable
> because I'm belatedly reflashing it to have Android 5.1 'Lollipop'
> based on CyanogenMod, rather than the very limited Barnes and Noble
> preload.
> https://www.perfectlyandroid.com/shop/android-lollipop-for-nook-tablet/
>
> I hadn't used the Nook Tablet in dog years, as I intended to do
> CyanogenMod conversion before loading it up, and hadn't gotten to it.
> (Actually, I bought it used and pretty much immediately set aside
> pending a new OS.) So, I had to rummage for its charger + cable. The
> cable has what looks like the now-familiar Micro-USB B male plug -- the
> one with the slanted sides.
>
> I wondered for a while: Have I misplaced the cable needed to connect
> the Nook to a computer for data transfer? Then I looked closer at the
> charger + cable -- and remembered that they are two separate things
> plugged together. The charger is the AC to +5V DC dongle, and has,
> guess what? Right, a bog-standard USB A-Type female jack like the ones
> computers have. The cable has a USB A-Type male plug on one (that) end,
> and the other is the Micro-USB B male plug. But is it really Micro-USB
> B? By this point, I'd become more than wary.
>
> No, it's not. https://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/thread/7740
> (Page talks about Nook Color, but also applies also to the similar Nook
> Tablet.)
>
> There are lots of discussions concerning the special charging
> micro-USB connector and cable for the Nook Color.
>
> Here's the deal - the normal USB port or charger produces 5v @ 500ma.
> The Nook Color AC adapter can produce 5v @ 1.9A (1900ma). Actually,
> any charger will work ok, it just takes longer to charge the battery...
> the more "amps" the faster the charging rate; bigger bucket filling
> the bathtub.
>
> To handle the extra current flowing to the Nook Color, the special
> micro-USB connector is "longer" and has an extra 12 pins at the tip,
> that go deeper into the special micro-USB connector on the Nook Color.
>
> A normal micro-USB cable can still be used for data transfers or
> slow/trickle charging, since it will only go in the normal depth and
> not make contact with the deeper special pins.
>
> So, the Nook cable has what looks like a normal 5-pin Micro-USB B male
> plug, but it's not one, but rather a bespoke 12-pin one and cannot work
> with anything else -- but regular 5-pin Micro-USB B plugs can work with
> the Nook, just not charging it as quickly.
>
> tl;dr: Your label-making machine is your friend. Use it to label your
> USB cables while you still know what they are and can do. I just did.
>
>
> Coming soon to devices near you: USB C-Type, the newest USB connector
> do-it-all flavour of the month (introduced 2014). Again, see picture
> and description at
> http://www.cablestogo.com/learning/connector-guides/usb . Plug has a
> rounded oval outline, and there are 24 pins, and it's reversible.
> (I.e., you cannot attempt to mash it in upside-down, as either way up
> works the same.) All the other Mini and Micro variants are now being
> called 'legacy'. Moreover, Intel, one of the seven companies behind USB
> standards, is pushing hard for USB C-Type to finally replace all
> headphone and other audio jacks on data devices. And it might happen.
>
>
>
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